lore-discussion-spoilers

[narrow marsh]

👀💀

[solid cave]

the light's dna?

[narrow marsh]

In a way
Over in Skyblr there had been a bit of headcanon formulation of an idea that the "cells" that make up Light substance communicate with each other through sending Frequencies to each other; vibrations or energy levels invisible to the naked eye of a human-like Being.

There was a really cool post talking about how the Frequencies that cycle through a specific Being could designate the specific patterns- or code that the Light inside the Being operates by. This code being different between every single individual could (again, all headcanon) create a cool 'explanation' for why Beings have preferences. Why skykids could logically have preferences.

[solid cave]

i need to understand this headcanon a bit more hmmmm

[narrow marsh]

It derives from putting things back in our own skykid's shoes; and remembering what made us uncomfortable, what made us happy, what made us annoyed, and what made us feel Whole during our own experiences in Sky.

I want to believe it's all 'canon', and that it's all important.

[hushed steeple]

Isnt that basically just a soul?

[narrow marsh]

That's exactly the point! Any logical conclusions we come to about the anatomy of Beings and formations that Light takes up; always will direct us back around to TGC's beloved theme of the soul.
It's so beautiful to me 🕯️

[hushed steeple]

Yeah! I like that!

[solid cave]

i haven't thought about the details of how the game makes me feel as much, very interesting ^^
what is cleaning ourselves tho btw- also what does this have to do with th shrines?

[narrow marsh]

@catofaurora from Skyblr meant directly cleaning themselves; washing their body I suppose. Seems like something to do with their own canon, but it still sounds lovely.

When they mentioned using homeshrine to "clean", I believe they're implying that in their headcanon, warping to Homespace effectively only takes the skykid, leaving behind all of the dirt, rainwater, or darkness powder that might be on them.

[solid cave]

while waiting for your response i realized we meditate in water at old home for the return shrine- i use aviary as home so i'd be rolling in dust XD
like CHINCHILLAAAA omggg im a chinchillaaa i love!!

[narrow marsh]

Oh you came up with a better answer than i did for why the homeshrine would 'clean' us haha, I didn't even think of that

[solid cave]

stroke of genius /j
i remember that meditation doesnt always have to look like this
it can be anything that focuses your attention to the present
i think i like this idea too

i wonder why the list is mixed would losing chevrons make someone uncomfy?

[narrow marsh]

That 2nd screenshot is actually my list 😅 it makes me uncomfy.

When making the list I tried to stay on topic with things that directly 'affect' our bodily Light, for good or bad! It's a headcanon for many people that chevrons represent the skykid getting too tired to continue absorbing wax. 🕯️

Off topic but I found your masks again! But on Skyblr. They're haunting us

The mask there for the forest elder is definitely the same mask on the temple that you pointed out.

[nimble ingot]

Fun fact: the twins (sort of) still have their old mask designs. They are angular with the masks mirroring each other, including them each having 1 eye visible.
And The day elders' old mask is still in the game in some way. Although it is likely a remnant of a statue. It can be found in the Ceremonial Worhsipper's area (the 8 player elevator / Oreo area).
The would be a statue that seems like a pillar near the portal that takes you back to the day village.

[vernal rapids]

Anyone else notice how when we fall in Eden and follow struggling players, our light form resembles that of spirits when we relive their memories?

[spiral vault]

I think that every living being in Sky has a spirit, but we only show it when we lose our light

[solid cave]

ahhh i see i see! that's a smart headcanon- it's like the focus of the skykid on the wax wanes [ehehe punny] as you deplete the chevrons, so the priority is more on the environment
when rejuvenated by the moon or sun's [the Light's?] power at reset, so does the focus become greater on the wax [because gotta catch em all yk hehe]

[vernal rapids]

I wonder if it's kinda like the Lifestream in Final Fantasy 7. In that game there is this cycle of life where all life is born from, and returns to the planet to later begin anew.

[nimble ingot]

That is a good question.

I recall an old live stream where Jenova initially got the idea of a game that insighted a positive player community instead of a toxic one like many mmo rpg games of the time. Like WoW.
Final Fantasy has been a massive game that could have been either indirectly inspired Sky, or the source of inspiration of Final Fantasy happens to be similar to one Sky uses.

In Light Awaits, there was a concept of the Light in the realms were in a cycle where they start in the water, eventually make its way up to the clouds, and then fall back down.
This is reminiscent to the water cycle that Yui Tanabe described in the recent live stream that supposedly became the basis of this Light cycle in the realms.

The lore currently follows this notion still. Light falls in the realms (in the form of ancestors, skykids or light creatures), then eventually go on a pilgrimage or journey to the clouds (or up the highest mountain that can reach the clouds), ascend and once in Orbit can fall back down to start the cycle anew.

[gilded socket]

I have
Questions

[solid cave]

i have discovered a new bean unfortunately

[vernal rapids]

What's funny is that in Final Fantasy 7, the Lifestream became corrupted when an entity from the stars crash landed on the planet, a "Calamity from the sky" named...
JENOVA

[nimble ingot]

you are joking......... 0.0

[vernal rapids]

I'm not lol
Which was why I was so confused when I first heard about TGC's Jenova.

[nimble ingot]

Did this corruption involve a crystal?
And did this calamity become something as dark as a black hole surrounded by a relentless storm?

[vernal rapids]

Not really, it arrived on a meteor 2000 years before the story's events. It's an extraterrestrial lifeform that has a maliable genetic structure, able to assume the appearance of other life forms, mutate other life forms or even possess other life forms. It basically singlehandedly wiped out an ancient civilization and was preserved in a glacier. Until it was discovered by an evil mega-corporation and used as the catalyst for evil experiments during the game's modern events.

[nimble ingot]

ah ok.
Then I stand corrected. The latter scenario might be the case.
That or, just a coincidence 😅

[vernal rapids]

But in FF7, the Lifestream can condense into crystal form. It's rare in nature, but can but can be processed artificially. Shinra, the evil corporation I mention, grew nationwide power by monopolizing it, dubbing the crystals "materia" (the magic system of the game).

[vernal rapids]

But it's all likely a coincidence. FF7 came out in 1997, long before TGC became a company.

[solid cave]

i CAN'T understand 😭 whY have i Never seen forest elder shaped like that and WHY CANT I DESCRIBE ITTT
i keep getting beaned 😭

[solid cave]

ff7 spoilers in lore discussion spoilers 🤭

[vernal rapids]

It started as a comparison between the lifestream and the nature of life in Sky lol

[solid cave]

interesting, idk final fantasy lore, haven't played the games, all i saw was Jenova up there lol
what was the initial idea?

[narrow marsh]

We are very gay on Skyblr.
Not me though I would never 🎧🎧🎧

[narrow marsh]

Could you drop a link to this live stream
Man sometimes it only feels like they talk about this stuff in detail after I've posted about it on my blog

[narrow marsh]

Tbh I'd rather not talk about it too much or else the mods might feel prompted to delete the screenshot 😭 I'm sorry I got you beaned

[nimble ingot]

sure thing.
( I hope the old live stream is still there. There has sadly been a few old videos that got removed.)

Old live stream where Jenova described the game inspiration (world of worldcraft example) : https://youtu.be/AL-StB8qmII?list=PLRTBVhU4gY5y61dHlzooaIbge8ACLLQUn&t=1768
Latest live stream by Yui Tanabe : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBTajJdAmOM&t=892s
Also, a skyfest rendition I have not watched yet, posted by the legend, Maelstrom : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXTMG0qeJqk&list=PLRTBVhU4gY5y61dHlzooaIbge8ACLLQUn&index=95

BONUS!!!
Jenova apparently took his name from Final Fantasy 7!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihJqNhsa_wQ

[narrow marsh]

Wait did he actually 💀😭

[nimble ingot]

That was just an example, hence the link is directed to the segment where it was mentioned.

The idea with context is that mmorpg games can become toxic with players becoming greedy or simply rude in general.
The idea in Sky is to promote a more positive outlook to player on player interactions.

The video in question did go over some of the process TGC did in Journey. However, some of that philosophy was carried over to Sky.

TGC is known to take what they learned in one game, and bring some of those ideas to the next game.

Case and point.
Cloud : a game about a child who can fly, almost like it is a dream. (also the child was known to be a hospital patient and them moving clouds was their way of wanting to help others by bringing the rain to places that need it.)
Then came Flow : a game where it is simple and abstract style and gameplay acts as a springboard to deeper thinking. Where you go down when you do harm. But you can also ascend to the light.

The above were experimental and student projects. Flow did make it to the PlayStation as a game. But the rest that came expanded on these last games were working towards.

Flower : A game that I like to think combines the smooth and abstract nature of Flow. But keeps the whimsical and dream like feel from Cloud. The absence of people in this game heightened the feelings of longing and nostalgia. A want to see what happens next in the story that hardly explains to you what is going on. You are told with emotions instead of words. (Needless to say, I love this game so)

Journey : A game that launched TGC's reputation and enabled them to start their next project. This game shifted focus away from a perceived present like that of Cloud or Flower, and towards an ancient civilisation that once made use of this lost technology. One that gave the ancestors strength became also their undoing. (Does this start to sound familiar?)

Sky : This game, as how TGC put it, is a "spiritual successor" of Journey. Which in turn also inherited the concepts of these games that came before as well.

• Cloud and Flower's childlike innocence and dreamlike imagination of a world inspired by the present world's problems. But a wanting to escape these problems while also looking to learn how to face them.
• Flow's Ideology (system of ideas) of a relationship between light and darkness and the different actions that affect them.
• Journey's ancient civilisation foundation and the technology that destroyed it.

[vernal rapids]

The reason the conversation shifted to Jenova is that in FF7, the "Calamity of the Sky," corrupting the Lifestream is called JENOVA (all caps because it was the designation of the virus).

[narrow marsh]

I skipped around a bit, but here are some notes I find crucial to my fields of operation on our Progress. Thank you for sharing 🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️

[solid cave]

oh alright 😭 it's ok, i still wanna know though i've only focused on the blacksmithing she's done [she's so cool] [dms approved]

[solid cave]

oh no is Jenova Chen...???

[narrow marsh]

Lololol well while I was doing my homework that was given to me by Raider i saw this 👀🕯️
3 early concepts of her, back when she was thematically more of a "witch" kind of being that would haunt and trick you as you stumbled around in the dark of the woods. This was back when Forest was planned to have a lot more puzzles, mostly revolving around her tricks. With that context she reminds me a lot of the skullkids from the Legend of Zelda series.

[vernal rapids]

That's what I asked

[untold ridge]

so you know how the light creatures came from..."The Light" I been thinking that the Crabs might've been the first like horseshoe crabs Since these crabs are the most resellient to anything, where light creatures cannot witshtand a inch of darkness, crabs are able to survive from and and even adapt from it growing some and their aggression being the same

[solid cave]

omg she's so slay i love herrr

[tribal otter]

Her mask is actually preserved just above the forest temple door

[solid cave]

ah yes that's what i documented recently ^^

[narrow marsh]

You're saying they might've been the first light creatures?? That's actually a really cool concept even if it's just personal. 👀👀👀

[untold ridge]

Not really. I'm kinda saying they wernt light or dark creatures until the hole darkness thing

[untold ridge]

Kinda like their own species until the light came

[narrow marsh]

So many themes over crabs being both understanding and also manifestations of ... Something.

Hermit crabs make their homes out of things they find littered and scattered, and there has been a subtle connection we've been making here in lorechat over them being like hermit crabs; either entering little rocks and bells to gain 'shells', or maybe... Growing out of these specific items, for some reason.

Always so fascinating...

[hushed steeple]

Remember pot theory?

The mural in ark, they start with pots, the pots vanish, now theres more crabs!

Is it about taking water? OR ACCIDENTALLY CREATING CRABS?

[narrow marsh]

WHAT

Kami I've never heard of this.
Why didn't you tell me

@nimble ingot or whoever, does anyone have that picture of the hi-def crab from the Two Embers concept art??

I thought it was posted in here over the past week but maybe I'm thinking of somewhere else

[nimble ingot]

this one?

[narrow marsh]

Yea i just saw it in media but ty

Just what object could that be...
Is it really a pot, maybe like crushed and condensed, kinda imploding as the crab forms (or enters it for a home via hermit crab theory)

[nimble ingot]

I wonder if these are not part of the crab, but pieces of rubble or stones they find and they wear like hats for camouflage?
Meaning that the crabs relied saw ancestor buildings as sanctuaries because they were protected from predators.

Which in turn begs the question what could be their predators?
If it were to be Krill, then we would not see them in the Graveyard, where the most krill can be found in one area.
That and they would also scurry away as krill would hunt them down. Which does not happen.
On the contrary, they might be just scavengers taking the opportunity to feed of scraps leftover from Krill hunts.

[vernal rapids]

I don't know how relevant it is, but it's interesting how in the Nine-Colored Deer, the crab was treated like a light creature.
Also, in the GW crab race for the Tournament of Triumph, Krill would still target you, yet they obviously don't target other crabs. It could be because the Krill still detects us as beings of light, but it makes me wonder if there is a distinction for crabs.

[pastel brook]

Team Wasteland is krilling it!

[solid cave]

we love these crabs here

[solid cave]

i thought the same thing as soon as i discovered the crabs in the campsite! the crabs of light [or... normalness-] and the crabs of darkness [most crabs] are different by whether they have darkness embedded in their shells
otherwise they're just adorable little goobers scuttling around being lovely

[solid cave]

in mentioning the crab stew pot it's possible that the ancestors were their predators and their cultivators [if they did do creb farmin]

i can't say the name of a common household pest in american settings [most typically new york city, not a rat] but the way crabs adapt they're like these pests except they're crustaceans [?]

[long vessel]

It's true the crabs don't scurry, but they do hide in their shells when krill are coming. Combined with being targeted during the races, I assume non-corrupted crabs were probably still targets for krill. However, they don't target the non-corrupted ones in-game, which may be a hole in the theory or just an oversight. But I also agree with floofi that ancestors seemed to eat crabs too

[vernal rapids]

I wonder if it has anything to do with the polluted water. We seem to naturally find crabs in the Forest, Sanctuary, and Wasteland near bodies of water (the exception being the shard crabs, but that's not natural phenomenon).

[long vessel]

I had a similar thought, that's what makes the most sense to me so far

[nimble ingot]

I am though intriged as to why a (skykid) crab would be a target, but not a dark crab, or possibly a netural crab for that matter.

Hypothetically a crab aligned with the light like the one in Season of 9 coloured deer might be a target due to the light it carried. But that is sadly something the game does not like to ellaborate on as it seems.

I would argue though that a (skykid) crab should be ignored by krill similar to normal (dark) crabs would even when caught in the light.
It is uncertain why the devs opted to keep the skykid-crabs targetable to the krill still. Other than for gameplay balance reasons.
Which is still a missed opportunity in my opinion. Purely based on the fact that there is a dedicated spell to deter krill attacks. Why not a temporary way to avoid detection.
An item/ability/spell like that is only as powerful as what the game would allow it to be. And coupled with the lore that should have an influence on said game, the reasons why something work in a certain way needs a reason.

[long vessel]

I hadn't thought of any crabs as being neutral, that's an interesting thought. Are there any other examples of what you'd consider to be neutral life in Sky?

[nimble ingot]

As for Ancestors eating crabs.

It is a long standing canon feature from the game itself.
Primarily from the Graveyard's firepit where you see the pleadful parent spirit (from as far back as season of belonging) with crabs included in the meal preparation.

In older versions of the game. The crabs were a stationary environmental prop, as they were impaled on a stick over the fire. (they were also pretty large as well).
But now a days, it is a deep dish pan that holds these crabs and skykids can optionally tip over the dish to release the now thankful crabs.

[vernal rapids]

Interestingly enough, you won't lose wl if you're attacked by a Krill as a crab (at least in the race, idk about the Mischief spell). It's probably just a way to make the GW crab race less annoying (the race is supposed to be fun, not frustrating), but it might be interesting to consider.

[long vessel]

I didn't know about the impaled crabs and now I'm very grateful for the chance to free them

[nimble ingot]

Crabs are neutral on the Light/Dark scale. Albeit they are still spiteful little buggers. So probably more like Chaotic Neutral, lol.

Other neutral creatures though... hm....
That is a good question. Seeing how the game does not have a lot of variety in creatures.
I would like to propose that the "eell creature in Treasure Reef could be neutral (however that is just the one creature we have known in the game. Aside from the second one that briefly appeared in season of Moments area for Days of Nature).
And potentially the sea turtle. Although it could be aligned with the light due it it having a call and is lighter in colour.

It would be cool to see more neutral creatures in Sky. Or simply more variety in creatures.
Regardless if it is just concept art, mentions outside of the game, or possibly seen in the Two Embers series.

[nimble ingot]

Oh, I believe I did lose light in a race as a crab. Though I cannot recall when exactly, sadly.

The spell simply causes the krill to aim slightly above you (as if they pull up at the last moment), and should prevent any hits from landing on the skykid.
But only for a few seconds.

[vernal rapids]

It's weird to consider neutrality when most of wildlife appear to be normal animals that just glow with light.

[narrow marsh]

I definitely think they're scavengers. I personally don't believe krill exist naturally nor contribute anything to the ecosystem, but crabs, even while corrupted, are still light creatures and not as warped and dilapidated as krill are.

Trying to create a graphable food chain for the ecosystem of light creatures gives everyone a headache and unfortunately could not feasibly get very far every single time I see anyone talk about it anyways.

You are correct that the hermit crab theory holds so so so much merit though! 🕯️

[long vessel]

Totally agree on wanting to see a wider variety of creatures in general. I'm kinda still under the impression creatures are either light or dark, unless we think crabs are separate from the light/life cycle somehow

[nimble ingot]

Side note, sharded crabs are definetly tipping their scales towards darkness due to the corruption they have.

[vernal rapids]

It the tournament, I was completely knocked off the big slope by a krill directly (causing me to lose that race entirely). I didn't lose any wl.

[narrow marsh]

Shattering gave evidence when it released that crabs are indeed light creatures, and NCD only further confirmed this! ❤️🕯️

[nimble ingot]

From what I recall in a race. A krill attacked on the last leg of the race, where you scurry up a hill to the finish line.
Upon getting hit, wing light was seen, and lost.

What makes me uncertain is also knowing it happened when I was half asleep while doing the race (it was foolish, but it happens).

[vernal rapids]

I think the trailers for Two Embers also helped confirm it too. Before the Forest became poisonous, it had crabs scurrying about avoiding contact with people.

[narrow marsh]

Also yes, season of the little prince non-canonically proved that krills specifically seek out Light. If crabs are light creatures but still have a very weak amount of Light, then perhaps the krill can't sense their Light hidden underneath that shell

[nimble ingot]

partially/arguably/debatably canon.

Collab seasons have some controversy on whether people accept them as canon, or not.

Best keep it as part of one's opinion of that part of the lore. And best to avoid stating a season is non-canon as if it is fact without a source to support it.

[long vessel]

That's what I'm thinking! That krills can't see them as long as they'e tucked into their shells in hermit mode. Otherwise, there's still some potential to be seen and eaten as a crunchy snack. Makes me think about their life cycle, though - we know there are tiny crabs in Aviary, so I imagine the molting period is especially dangerous for crabbies

[nimble ingot]

Oh, speaking of which.

I hope the teeny tiny crab in the Enchanted merchant's shop is ok. I have not been able to spot them last time I visited.

[long vessel]

Oh no! Really??

[nimble ingot]

But to be fair, they are mind blowingly small. It is so easy to miss them!

Arguably the smallest creature found in the game!
Smaller than even the butterflies (when you consider their wings)

[narrow marsh]

I actually don't believe a "light-aligned" crab would be attacked by krill.

Something everyone is completely missing; we have seen "light-aligned crabs" in the flesh; both in Sanctuary, and the crabs we play as in the Tournament. Sanctuary crabs are light creatures!

But we have to remember how themes work in Sky. If the Ancestor's Connection to the Light was anatomically weakened by their shells. (Referencing concept art) Then crabs are weakened too! This would be why they cannot Ascend to the Light in the Sky, and why they mildly react to being hit by a deepcall. (A wave of energy created by Light.) And lastly, why krill would not react to their Light.

[pastel brook]

Hi, it me thatSkybot! your Coach

[vernal rapids]

Maybe because of the very nature of Skids, our light shines through despite taking on the form of a crab?

[nimble ingot]

It is being considered.
However, differences have to apply.

A skykid in the form of a crab are not the same as a neutral (light aligned) crab, or a dark crab.
Moreover, it is rare (if at all possible) to test if krill can attack neutral crabs when neither creature is found in the same area to test it.

It may not be well adviced to substitute a skykid-crab with a light crab and conclude a krill would attack a light crab, if they attack skykids in general (even when they are in crab form).

I would know krill attack and deal damage to crabified skykids outside of the races. Because during last year's Days of Mischief event. I went on an Eden run as a crab. And was unfortunate to learn that krill would attack and deal damage to skykid-crabs.

[narrow marsh]

That's actually super valid. It is only a transformation spell after all, as hinted by the sound when we transform. We aren't actually the crabs.

The only instances where I firmly believe we are playing directly 'as' light creatures, was the Aurora concert and the one Days of Bloom event at ark where we became butterflies. 🕯️

[nimble ingot]

Outside of the events.
I would love it when more quests would allow skykids to play as creatures.
Crabs, jelly fish, fish, mantas, butterflies or even a new creature entirely.

Perhaps not as krill.
Skykids as Krill would truly the most terrifying monster to face in the game!

A predator that is smart and relentless would actually perfectly capture the fear and danger of a Dark Dragon.

Because the game sadly (but thankfully) nerfed their AI to being essentially patrolling guard dogs.

[vernal rapids]

Not even krill warding spells are 100% effective

[narrow marsh]

I agree that it was used poorly in that. I had meant that, specifically for the Tournament crabs, we transformed into the 'neutral' crab, not the dark crab.

I was gonna say this in that last message but I forgor; because we have no way of knowing about if a real neutral crab would be attacked, it remains a 50/50! While my original bias claims they wouldn't be, it's very possible and tbh it'd be awesome if they did get attacked. Ancestors also had weak Light and Flame and they sure got attacked. In that instance, perhaps the only reason dark crabs don't get attacked then, is because they have darkness on them.

[narrow marsh]

Oh I forgot about that! Were we dark crabs in that instance? It doesn't participate help us figure out anything but it'd be interesting to know/remember. 👀

[vernal rapids]

A moff krill... the stuff of nightmares...

[nimble ingot]

In rare cases, I saw krill targeting spirit memories. Even if it is a bug for the game's sake. From a lore standpoint, it makes perfect sense.

[narrow marsh]

They aren't? 😭

[long vessel]

Sorry, I don't think I fully understand what you mean. I agree the shells would weaken their connection to Light, but do we know that it would sever it completely? To me, it just seems they'd be more vulnerable to darkness than other creatures due to them being non-flighted (resulting in experiencing a higher level of pollution). It also seems like they'd be one of the most affected creatures by the shattering, since they'd have to crawl all the way to the light and don't exactly have that access anymore. After all, you used the example of the ancestors, but didn't they participate in the light/life cycle prior to darkstone industrialization?

Edit: ALSO, I forgot this part, I also wonder if crabs are more severely affected by the shards because of their rock shells. That would seemingly mimic how they're found in nature

[nimble ingot]

It shouldn't, but it happens on occasion.
If it does happen, best report it as a bug.

[narrow marsh]

Yes! I believe it was intentional, but perhaps it could also be a bug.

"Happy accidents" 🧔🎨

[long vessel]

You can place the campfire crabs for Krill to spot. They won't attack them. Just to add some extra confusion lol

[nimble ingot]

ahh, true...

Time to yeet crabs with the catapult again. XD

[narrow marsh]

A lack of connection to The Light does not necessarily immediately imply vulnerability to darkness.

Like you said, darkness is not a natural part of the world and is a pollution; of warped/corrupted Light leaking out of refined darkstone. What this means is that before the Ancestors refined darkstone, there would be no darkness to corrupt crabs. They would simply exist. If the Ancestors could have their pilgrimage to the Light, then yes I believe crabs could as well.

However, during their pilgrimage, they would still be scavengers, and not contribute healthily to the Light nor get much Light either.

[vernal rapids]

Idk, I've been attacked by krills while using them

[vernal rapids]

Giving moffs the ability to become krills might be fun though, at least it'll probably be more terrifying than most things the devs could come up with for Mischief lol

[solid cave]

they do like water quite a bit :D makes sense! and like aquatic species not all bodies of water hold crabs

[solid cave]

from memory the skyddie-crabs aren't darkness crabs, and also [headcanon] look neutral but they can see the light within us
it would be cute to have a [hide in shell] option though when we get spotted by krill but so far imo it's been optimized for simplicity and speed

[solid cave]

ohhhhhhh i see...
not as bad as i thought, but still these things are cute
if only there was a way to remove the pollution from angy krebs

[solid cave]

ah wait tho, we have a crab call, albeit from a spirit but like i mean, crabs got calls too

[narrow marsh]

Maybe someone joined you after you had already used the spell; and so they didn't have the ward on them like the rest of your team mightve

[cobalt palm]

I did also notice that on the dark/light sides of the void of shattering, neither side actually includes crabs, the dark side does include dark plants, but more akin to the flying ones or floating ones during Days of Nature rather than the traditional dark plants we normally see in the realms.
Could be possible that the darkness in plants and crabs are a result of diamond mining / light flow tampering of the ancestors.

[narrow marsh]

It has been a theory before that the reason why we don't see larger flora anywhere is because darkness turned them into darkness plants. 🕯️

[long vessel]

Oh, this reminded me, anyone else see the giant crystal(?) on the backside of the krill in the void of shattering area? It seemed about right to be the Eden crystal, but idk. I didn't play that season so I'm not sure if it has come up already

[cobalt palm]

Are you able to get a photo of it, the guide crystal itself has a smaller perfectly formed diamond inside of it too

[long vessel]

I wish I could! My camera and screenshot functions aren't working currently. It's been weeks

[cobalt palm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/632004389137154048/1155187827865297017/Shattering_core_diamond_Sky_2023-09-23-17-57-45.mp4?ex=66eb0800&is=66e9b680&hm=a909c1b3c82235966277601ce018664f3e5cf678ae09b4cc6f57b4af2de8fd07&

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[long vessel]

Could be it! It was VERY big though, took up a large portion of the backside of the krill. Weird thing was that the krill seemed to also be like merged with it? Coming out of it? Idk, they were fused together, not entirely separate

[cobalt palm]

Oh I think I know what you mean

[long vessel]

Yeah! But it still distinctly had the angularity of the eden diamond, which is what made me curious. It's interesting!

[cobalt palm]

Mid video screenshot, but this part at the bottom right of the screen?

[long vessel]

Sorry, it might be my laptop but it's hard to tell

[cobalt palm]

This bit

Nah it is super dark, I'll have to do a fly around with a lantern prop

[long vessel]

It looks like it could be, the area looks about right. If you have the camera, you might have luck turning the brightness all the way up, I'm not sure

The lantern will definitely help though lol

[long vessel]

Meanwhile, this made me think about how weird mushrooms are in the game. Like, fungi aren't plants or animals. But on the topic of light/neutral/dark, I think this is the only real example I can think of where neutral life comes up. Like, there are light shrooms where we recharge, but there are also mushrooms all over forest that aren't recharging, mainly (or entirely?) attached to trees. I wonder what's up with that

Edit: Well, I guess trees, flowers, and grass count as neutral as well lol, but they still seem light-related somehow? Like they'd still be involved in the process? Not that mushrooms aren't, bc clearly they are somehow, it's just strange how fossilized(?) the neutral mushrooms seem. Like, maybe they're all dried up from the polluted rain or something. But maybe there are examples of it in non-polluted areas? I'm not sure

[narrow marsh]

Id love to go check this out later, we love getting field research operations

[vernal rapids]

It was at Eden right before the chain of wl. I know the Krill was targeting me because my ps4 controller was flashing red

[narrow marsh]

Light blooms (their canon name btw) are light flora.

Within my personal understanding, all Beings of Light exist to continue the perpetual flow of Light, correct? But light flora wouldn't reasonably be able to move from their position to ascend. (Imagine light blooms just floating away )

Due to this, I had to (within my personal understanding) rationalize what purpose they serve to the Light ecosystem. The first extrapolations we ever can make is through Our experience in the game. Light blooms still recharge us. Therefore, that proves that they are indeed contributing to the ecosystem. Mantas and birds flying past could receive Light from the blooms. But in Sky there's also a major theme of Exchange, with all Light cycling through all Beings and spaces. So from there... Blooms could theoretically be receiving Light from the creatures as well!

I'd like to think of them as a deposit of Light. Creatures that pass will give some of their Light to the blooms, and if a creature on the same migration is tired and alone, then it can grab the Light that was deposited into the bloom as it passes by.

As for the "neutral mushrooms" that you mentioned, there could be a few different theories. To me, they are either:

1. Petrified Light Blooms
2. Appendages coming off of the tree (which means they're still petrified, just like the tree)
3. 'Normal' non-light biological flora as some here in the chat are suggesting

The odds are up in the air, and it could be anything 👀🕯️

[long vessel]

Petrified! Thank you, that was the word I was looking for. It's past my bedtime, I'm tired

I agree with everything you've said. Just to add on, though, the Two Embers trailer has an interesting moment where we see all the light particles free-floating around a room. I think this could possibly be a key component to the exchange cycle. Like, maybe the light blooms give off light "spores" to spread, and/or feed on the light "waste" that creatures expel. It's also shown that the light causes vines to grow, so I imagine it is a major component in the life cycle of all the flora in the game (including dark plants).

The other semi-related thing that I think is really interesting is how we see flowers seemingly being used to craft magic spells in the shop in Aviary. To me, that definitely implies some level of importance. I really hope Two Embers delves a little more into the magic of the world because I'm so interested 🌼

[scarlet kelp]

Well this video certainly confirms there is a smaller crystal inside the Eye hopefully it's one of the things that gets explained during Two Embers

[spiral vault]

It's like a russian nest doll

[narrow marsh]

Yes, I've studied Light particles quite intensely. Too intensely to be honest

Light particles do not have to be spores to be conceptual units being given or received by the bloom.
Light particles also aren't as conceptual as I make them sound! The same wisps that you mentioned from Two Embers can visually seen in-game everywhere!
Regardless, yes! Light particles are a key factor in any Exchange, and I believe Exchanges occur between all Beings of Light when they are close to each other.

[lost yew]

Why is season of Moomin going to have so much IAP?!?!?

[silver robin]

Please redirect posts like this out of #lore-discussion-spoilers to a place more suitable. Thanks.

[lost yew]

what would be a more suitable place?

[narrow marsh]

Maybe #beta-discussion ?
Not sure though.
Either way, this isn't the place you're looking for

[lost yew]

found out the feedback channels are more appropriate

[gilded socket]

A 1v7 asymmetrical gamemode with krills
Oh boy

[raw moon]

Does anyone know where I can find an analysis of the trailers and teasers for the Two-Embers movie? (I think it's a movie?) I don't know too much about it but it would be wonderful if someone could find a discussion or good analysis for it

[rare ruin]

Youtube maybe

[narrow marsh]

Two Embers is going to be a tv show! A very short show though, effectively 2 and a half hours (iirc) altogether, so basically a movie. (Referencing an interview)

If you look up "Two Embers analysis/breakdown" on youtube I'm sure plenty of videos pop up from, even from TGC themself! However, to 'actually' Understand what's going on you'd need to be a bit more intense with questions to a place like this. If you do end up having any questions feel free to ask this chat! ❤️🕯️

[long vessel]

I believe you're right, Tomte - iirc it's 2.5hrs and 10 episodes according to that interview

Hopefully the quality of this isn't too bad, I was able to use my camera + my laptop's snipping tool to get a pic of the crystal-like structure behind the krill

Also totally recommend looking up close at the krill's features lol, it's cool and also sooo derpy

This is his face:

Also, the inside of his mouth(?!?)

[narrow marsh]

It has an opened mouth??

[spiral vault]

https://sky-children-of-the-light.fandom.com/wiki/Sky:_The_Two_Embers

[long vessel]

It appears so! The weird angle of the first pic is a better side view of the open mouth. The bottom jaw is longer/sharper than expected

[spiral vault]

It's basically a series showing the origin of Hopeful Steward, the journey of the mysterious Eden Elder, and the rise and fall of the Sky world as a whole.

[haughty sundial]

I'm new are the Elders like, the past kings of each portal/world?

[tribal otter]

They're the leaders and guardians of each realm of Sky

[narrow marsh]

Welcome!
They were the leaders appointed by the king to watch over the different lands in the kingdom.
Here's a pamphlet made by the lore community to explain some basic things about Sky's story ❤️🕯️
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/12XSkaMV_5UYG-an_Qo37ItyKP6GaqBBA6iRqBVE2qck/mobilebasic#heading=h.cmfnuox3fw3h

[spiral vault]

In a way yes, but nobody knows how tyrannical or free they are

[nimble ingot]

They are/were the guardians of their respective realms.
Sort of like gods in a hypothetical sense.

The ancestors prayed to them in their temples. Each one represented something they did snd the realms supposedly relied on each other for resources and or support/power.

Forest for instance seemingly was responsible for forging tools/weapons while also supplied lumber and possibly darkstone crystals.

[cobalt palm]

I put together a combined video of all of the Two Embers trailers and animations we have seen so far
https://youtu.be/g3Wm_PGUyDw

[novel marten]

Thanks for this, I missed skyfest so I've been meaning to see some of these

[cobalt palm]

I think TGC have pretty much uploaded all of the SkyFest talks on their channel now, but I have them all on mine except the keynote, which tgc definitely have up

[novel marten]

I also noticed that this teacher has the Air Prophet's icon on a stone pin. Since it seems like they're going to Isle temple, I wonder if these kids were all going to be trained through the trials or passage events?

[cobalt palm]

I think they're on an airship in that scene, so wonder if that badge is like "aircrew"

Also, Clack the tongs!

[novel marten]

"If you don't sit back down I will turn this boat around-"

[spiral vault]

I think it's still related to Prophecy, in one of the images we see the children in a narrow cave similar to Prophecy

This looks very similar to the opening part of Prophecy Cave

[narrow marsh]

It could be a mix of both theories here. After all, I haven't seen anybody talk about how it's flying. Can we see any darkstone visibly present on the side of the ship? If not, perhaps the ship is enchanted, maybe even by that scholar themself. 👀🕯️

||If someone could pull a picture of the side of the ship off appreciate it I'm so lazy ||

[long vessel]

I got some pics of the side - to me it looks like there's a darkstone, right? Definitely the space for one (or several, even, to account for all the oars). The one watching over the kids doesn't seem to have any control over the ship, but the guy in the middle of the third picture does. I'm super curious about him. To me, he perfectly illustrates the class divide in Sky. His clothes, his profession, even the way he seems largely ignored by the passengers. And YET! Knowing how to guide those ships would've been a truly essential skill, especially after the shattering

Also, there are two other interesting structures to the left and right of the temple. I wish we could see them better lol

[inland cliff]

I have a theory that ppl in sky are divided with their elemental power, and that guys seems to be an air type (seen in his air pendent) therefore I think he'd supposed to be powering the ship as well

[inland cliff]

I have another guess that over time islands starts to adrift or get covered by clouds more and more over the year to cover parts of the kingdom so that's how the kingdom seems much smaller

[long vessel]

You're definitely right about there being more clouds now

The next (and final) shot of the steam trailer shows the temple enveloped in clouds like it is now, nothing showing on either side. I believe there are several examples that show a similar effect

[narrow marsh]

Thank you for getting it!
Ngl it's weird that you can't actually see any darkstone in each of the slots... Surely they wouldn't have gone that far out of the way to make the stylistic choice of "Yes, we DON'T want to make our use of darkstone in this scene apparent to anybody"
Like c'mon TGC

[long vessel]

Agree!

The only one that seems obvious is the biggest one. It seems pretty clear to me that there's a stone in it. But again, it's weird it's not more obvious lol

[narrow marsh]

Yea why isn't the stone glowing??

[long vessel]

And also, the guy in front uses some kind of stick (seemingly) to regulate the ship. Like, when the manta bumps the side, he switches the stick to the other side as if to correct course. HOW lol. What is the stick?? Is the stick magic/darkstone powered? Lmao, so many questions

[dense zodiac]

Guys what if the reason manta carry us is that they think we’re baby manta? Like ‘oh come here lil’ guy, you wanna go up there? Ok friend let’s go’

[long vessel]

I also need to correct myself because after looking again, the guy who seems to be steering is at the BACK of the ship lol. I wish that meant I understood anything more about what's going on 😂

[long vessel]

That's such a freaking cute idea

[rare ruin]

Darkstones power technology in some way with its energy which is why the boat floats on its own. And the man “rowing” this boat is simply doing his job to guide it towards the temple. The other adults on the ship i think are the teachers helping the kids

[rare ruin]

This makes the most sense, the trails of passage were shown as teachings for all kids of sky

[rare ruin]

Also idk why but at first i thought he was holding a hair straightener…

[narrow marsh]

Y'know, this brings up a great point about something I'm terrified of about Two Embers. They could iterate or have the artistic freedom to casually design anything however they want, but it's going to absolutely make or break our research in here. Even just in-game, any time Ancestors or skykid do anything remotely human-esque, everyone comes running in here to either claim it as proof for one theory, or they'll try to debunk it as 'not important' to defend another theory.

Strictly speaking about the 'rules of Sky'; when Two Embers releases it's going to be a warzone in here.

We're all so desperate for answers (or confirmations, depending on who you are) on what darkstone, Light, darkness, Ancestor anatomy, creature anatomy, and the Megabird are all truly like. But the beautiful thing is that even when they give us 'answers' in the form of that wonderful 2.5 hour-long animation, I have a feeling everyone still won't agree on what's the Truth.

[long vessel]

Well-stated, I totally agree. Personally, I'm trying to hold off on making definitive judgements until it's released (even if I accidentally slip in a "probably" a little too often lol, I'm still super aware it's just my interpretation of things).

I'm a lot newer than a lot of the regulars in here (and in the lore community at large) so I know I've had a lot less time to stew on all the little details. I just hope the people who really like their own theories understand that even if their theories aren't technically "right," their interpretations are still just as valuable and interesting! But as someone who is interested in writing about the lore, or making OCs that are lore-accurate, I can totally understand the pain of feeling like you had it figured out, only to find out the lore had different things in mind.

Plus, I've seen quite a few people express sentiment that they hope that not too much of the lore is revealed, so that there's still a mysterious, magical element to the world. And, in all honesty, it would probably be hard to fit every single detail into 10 episodes anyway. So, in the end, there will almost certainly still be plenty of unanswered questions for us to run amok with. (Plus probably a whole hoard of new questions pertaining the the show itself.)

[long vessel]

Right, thank you - the questions I have are more like how is the guy with the stick guiding the ship? Does his stick act as a sort of rudder by creating drag and slowly shifting the direction of the ship? Or does his stick have a magical or mechanical element that makes it suited for the job? Or does the stick contribute to steering at all? Maybe he just uses it to gently bap the mantas away (when he can reach them)

Plus, like Tomte said, it's weird you can't actually see the darkstones. Often, in-game, you can see them. But not here, other than maybe the biggest one. And on top of that, we know darkstone glows when activated (and it presumably would be if it were powering the ship), so why isn't it glowing in any of the frames? Could just be an oversight, but it's still interesting and raises questions lol. I still think the darkstone is active and powering the ship in those frames, but it's just strange it's not quite consistent with what we'd expect given what we do know about darkstone and its mechanics

Any speculation is appreciated lol. Gives me something to rattle around in my brain for background noise, y'know?

[gilded socket]

Can everything really be revealed in just 2.5 hours?

[long vessel]

I don't think so, personally

Edit: Everything vital for the story they want to tell, yes, definitely. But everything ever in all the realms? No, almost definitely not. Sky presumably has a really long history and a lot of that won't make it into the animation.

Besides, without dialogue (other than some narration), that already opens a lot of the story up to interpretation

[narrow marsh]

Riiight; "Oversight"!!!!

That's exactly what im talking about
I'd hate if they include about 4 dozen oversights in the show that just blatantly conflict with their genuine intentions with the game, and then people take it as fact

Mmmmghjghhh

[long vessel]

Oh gosh, yeah, true. That would be a nightmare for getting any sort of consensus

Hopefully they iron out all the details before release. It's been delayed long enough lol, hopefully they've got the time and resources they need to make sure it's all consistent

[rare ruin]

Yea thats fair, i’m not entirely sure how the guy rows that boat exactly, that would have to be explained in the two embers (if they even do prob not)

But i did notice in the picture of the boat that there is a kind of “rock” covering slightly protruding from the side. I speculate that the darkstone may be behind that cover to protect it from being damaged as we’ve seen mantas do like getting near the boats and the kingdom is trying to prioritize the darkstones energy so percussions may have been taken.

[lucid bridge]

What are these? Warts? Eyes? Sensory organs?

Mouth?

[rare ruin]

What is that? Where are you standing?

[lucid bridge]

The Shattering area, darkness statue. There is a krill component and I am standing on its head.

Interestingly enough, the manta component of the light statue is missing its eye and mouth. There are extra parts on the krill and missing parts on the manta.

[scenic pebble]

weren't these statues erected a long time ago?
maybe back in the day those creatures looked a bit different
idk ||probably just dev oversight and me looking too deep into it||

[lucid bridge]

I’ll have to see the models used in the other Shattering areas to see if they’re consistent. It might just be for the guide area though.

[spiral vault]

It's difficult to say, even the boat controller has fancier clothes than most basegame spirits. Plus, they could simply be old

[spiral vault]

At the very least, they seem to be very concerned with the extremely fine details. Such as the air symbol being the same. I think Two Embers is going to be very close to the game

[long vessel]

I actually brought this up within the last day or two! I'm so glad someone else noticed! Yeah, its mouth appears to be open. If I had to guess, I would say the four spots on top may be eyes. That is the most unique (and most detailed) version of the face I've been able to photograph. In the Shattering memory, like after a red shard event, the models are pretty basic with a big red glowing ball stuck on the end to give the illusion of it being frozen in time while spotting a target. What I find the most interesting about the model in this area is the open mouth! There's a big central orb (perhaps the main light we see?) and four other uniform upper "teeth" for a lack of a better word (even though devs have said nothing in Sky has teeth... but the Leviathan also kinda maybe begs to differ, iirc).

I can't remember where it was, but I had another picture of a krill face that did show little dark spots on their heads. It looked like the starts of tiny darkness blooms or like the dark rocks that grow on corrupted creatures. I don't think I have that photo anymore unless it's somewhere on my tumblr, but to me, it looked like their eyes are covered in darkness

Also, the spots do resemble eyes used in similar models, like in other memories, or the kneeling soldier next to the catapult in GW. That's part of what makes the ones on the inside of the mouth so interesting bc they're exactly like the ones on top (which could indicate they didn't mean for them to show on the bottom, maybe). And then the big orb in the middle doesn't seem as big as the light we see in live krill, or the light in the other shard memory - and it also seems more embedded, almost like a tongue. But I don't want to solidly say it's a tongue; I'm still more inclined to think it's the light, if it's anything at all. Still! What does it all meannnn?

[lucid bridge]

I love Sky biology

[long vessel]

I just got these - sorry for UI being in the way, I have to use my laptop's snipping tool to get pics rn lol

[long vessel]

Me too!!

This one also kinda shows how the orb might be situated in its mouth. Unfortunately that one spike obscures any clearer shot I try to get of it lol

[lavish wind]

They were multiple species that could interbred, there, boom. Solved. /j

[pastel brook]

a lil bit of life advice from good ol' Skybot: eat peas

[hushed steeple]

not sure if this is the right channel for this but what are these creatures? they look so cool

[rain frost]

i think theyre called whales :) you can see one in the Underground Caverns of the hidden forest

[bright sail]

you can also see one in the transition area between valley and wasteland, and also one as you head to orbit

[hushed steeple]

interesting
thanks

[narrow marsh]

Could you point out this rock covering via screenshot?

Also, let's be real they won't elaborate on the guy with the oar

But just as I work to put logic into how Light substance may function, we can kiiiinda do something similar with how the boat's physics works.
So I spent just a bit too long making ✨this✨ 🕯️

Never seen anybody do this before for the boats so I thought I might as well idly nerd out for 40 minutes.

[fleet pond]

Honestly idk if this has been talk and there is high chance but anyway....

So... The King of Eden was once a skykid like us if I hear from someone, and there was other theories that the spirit are not same species as we are

I want to support about this theories that the spirit and the skykid different because we don't know where the spirit from as they exist way before skykid or the Eden king come also know as Alef/Resh. On top of that, the spirit can't fly like us even on their alive moment, like in trailer and some story we relive, almost all of them use boat that can fly and none of them who have cape can fly idk. Other than that, the spirit does not have the glowing thingy atmiddle of their chest

Skykid began to came out of nowhere after the fallen of other realm and the corrupt of the Eden, because to redeem the sin of the Eden king has caused toward all the realm and the people. Since the king are skykid like us, we are like some kind sin washing and trying to save every people soul who are not rested in the Eden, since there is many population and hard to find due the Eden climate, there many skykid will be sent and die just to save those folk

[narrow marsh]

I wouldn't say that using and applying the symbols from the prophets is much of a "fine detail" imo.

Since my whole schtick is worldbuilding I'm bound to be 'disappointed' in a lot of things they portray in the show. There will surely be those that disagree with me in that time when it comes, but I'm already projecting forward to calling much of their iterations of entities and scenarios in Two Embers "just oversights". Any slight little portrayal might just tip me off 💀

It's my own hell to bear and nobody else's, at least.

[narrow marsh]

O h

[fleet pond]

Honestly, when I think about rebirth and cycle, since we die by turning to stone or something.

It almost like few minutes for us until we are out from the broken stone but what if it took a long time? Like I mean we stay stone in eden without knowing how many years passed before another skykid come to rescue and replaced us so that the next time, we will save them again and the others and turn to stone back and wait someone to save us. For us who in stone probably felt a second of minute ha passed but outside? Probably been year or more!

Honestly I don't know, I think I am high or something

[rain frost]

i agree on the concept that it takes longer to get saved than how we perceive it, but it doesnt have to have been years, i mean realistically lots of skids go every week so it could just be a few days or a week at most

[narrow marsh]

It isn't crazy don't worry; that is actually a common theory! Many people believe our skykid realistically waits a long time before being revived by the next skykid 👀🕯️

[fleet pond]

Imagine trying to save your skykid friend but all of them look same and stone sobs,

[gilded socket]

If you finish the Sanctuary quests, you can occassionally see a whale swimming in the distance

[gilded socket]

It's certainly a WIP solution because since one person gets to unpetrify multiple skykids, the amount of petrified skykids should theoretically go down, but as someone is always going to the PNR area, that number can never go down to 0

[bright sail]

personally i dont think the prince/king was a skykid— mainly because of the fact that while he's depicted as a being of light in art within sky's world, he doesn't have the necessary wings of a skykid. i'd have to look for the source again, but i remember reading somewhere in tom zhao's concept art that skykids were only created as a race after the shattering of the eden crystal by the motherbird, as a way to unite the two opposing forces of ancestors and light creatures so i believe alef was likely just a being blessed with the power of light that other ancestors were not, and was dubbed the prince for that reason

[narrow marsh]

Indeed, this is why I've seen the wording used that the two Embers; the one that became the king, and the one that was there after the fall: that they could be called "prototype skychildren". Made by The Light with the same intention of being angelic saviors, but they still had too many flaws. The Descendants (us) are just infinitely 'stronger' in comparison. 👀🕯️

[rare ruin]

The part of the rock sticking out further I believe may be a cover for the darkstone

[little musk]

whales! love them underrated creatures and wish there were cosmetics of them

also, why is there multiple types of whales?

are they the same and one just "evolved" or completely different

[long vessel]

Another fun biology note: I was just on my way to ride a manta in Daylight Prairie for today's quest when the mantas emerging from the clouds made me realize... we have NO clue how many creatures live in the clouds. Or in the water, for that matter. It makes me wonder if some light creatures adapted to navigating through clouds or other pathways to avoid being targeted by ancestors and krill alike. And THAT made me think about how when they call out, their calls may serve similar purposes as they do for us (which might seem obvious lol) but what that means is that they can travel in low-visibility areas and can still tell where other creatures are in relation to them, and (probably most importantly) can probably also still tell where Eden is.

This could be be part of the reason krill patrol the same areas over and over. For one, Wasteland seems a tad difficult to get out of (with the swirling vortex and all). But also, krill are congregated in the last area of open world before Eden. Light creatures who are participating in their migration will have to come through the areas surrounding the base of the mountain first. As far as I can remember, basically every krill we have is close to Eden. The Wasteland ones, obviously, but also the Little Prince one, and the Nine-Colored Deer one. But, when we think about it, there's still a LOT of cloud-cover all around Eden, which could have countless light creatures stealthily living and migrating and we'd never know. Especially if they subsist off of light, it doesn't seem unreasonable that light would be pretty abundant there

[long vessel]

I've also been wondering that! I assumed the Sanctuary one is just more evolved, but seeing them side by side, it's crazy to see how different they are

[gilded socket]

As it turns out, we have 0 access to the biology and behaviour of every creature of Sky
Even when some of them are constantly lunging at us

[narrow marsh]

Perhaps, if there even is darkstone there; as we've discussed there isn't really any darkstone visible in the shots at all...
I don't believe it'd be a 'cover', I just think they (the animation crew) didn't even put visible darkstone in the boat.

It's either intentional, or an
o v e r s i g h t
||The first of many ||

[narrow marsh]

Exactly, to all of that! We can't underestimate the importance of creatures coming out of the sea and the clouds!

[analog spade]

dear theory lovers, i would like to ask a quick question
If you have to give sky kids an age what would it be and why?

[narrow marsh]

The same age TGC gives them:

C h i l d

If you mean a physical age; skykids can theoretically live forever, but we don't know how long it's canonically been since we started appearing. Because I like making the player's experience valid to the lore, I say that we have existed since Launch; so more than 4 years in real time. But again, perhaps those 4 years canonically are 50 years

@nimble ingot I know you're probably busy, but do you remember TGC ever saying something about creatures being born out of clouds? In concept art or anywhere
If not it's all good

[long vessel]

I was about to say basically this but you said it better than I could The model of the body itself, without any height alteration, could probably be viewed as just about any age from 7-12 (if we even want to consider 13 as "aging out" of childhood lmao). But I don't necessarily thing the size of the body correlates to the age of the skykid (looking at you, chibi in my friends list who only goes by the name Old Man >.>)

But as far as actual age goes, I also like to think our player experience is canon to lore. So some of the oldest players are around 4 in real time, like Tomte said. I'd be a few months old, since I started during Nesting/Cinnamoroll. But we don't really know how that translates.

[rare ruin]

Cant stand tgc…

Just based off of canon lore they are immortal children so theoretically they can be decades old.

But once we are born from the sky we are capable of walking and using our call although maybe baby sky people don’t exist and we are just sent to earth once we are capable of doing basic tasks although that is a complete theory.

[nimble ingot]

Ah. good question.

I sadly dont recall a specific metion like that off the top of my head.

I do recall old concept art showing motes of light falling to the water, creatures carry it into the clouds, then into Orbit, and then repeat.

Season of Sanctuary seem to follow that logic with creatures coming up from the ocean.

[long vessel]

Didn't devs also mention that all life in sky starts in the ocean? Or something along those lines? I've never quite understood how to interpret that, with birds and butterflies being pretty prominent. Maybe light falls into the water and then takes shape?

[hushed steeple]

I want a spirit with a insulting name.

I want a spirit named Whining Complainer.

[narrow marsh]

Yes, perhaps that's what I'm thinking of!
Hopefully I can find the quote soon... I need it for something

[narrow marsh]

Bro wants me in Sky but as a spirit

[narrow marsh]

But creatures form out of those motes, correct? Did the motes (theoretically) have to fall into the water specifically in order to form creatures over each mote? 👀👀👀👀👀👀🕯️

[nimble ingot]

I honestly am not sure.
I would not want to make an assumption without proof.
From what I know and can tell from the concept art I got. It can go either way.

One thing that may sway the argument would be the bird eggs in Boneyard (Forest).

If birds lay eggs, and hatch from them. Then they are born,not created from light.

[long vessel]

That's kinda what I'm imagining. But the imagery in my mind is also somehow morphed with the idea of them forming out of the seafoam (like, mote hits water and glitters off of surrounding water particles until a shape emerges), kinda like a very glittery version of Aphrodite's birth

[long vessel]

The nest is a really great point, I know I've heard them say something about life beginning in the ocean/water in one of the videos on youtube, but this feels like another potential oversight moment

Edit: That is, if the nest is supposed to be canon. But also... this feels like an elaborate dad joke but technically some portion of the fluid in an egg is water.

But hey!! I might actually remember which video. It could have been a dev discussion about Abyss. I'm going to investigate.

[narrow marsh]

Let's be real tho technically there's already plenty of insulting names.

Imagine you die in the cloud kingdom and hundreds of years later angelic child-shaped creatures fly through the world and save trapped souls including yours and cherish your memories by reliving them from time to time, but in passing these angels call you "scaredy cadet" just because of that one time

[narrow marsh]

Those are still blatantly an Easter egg in my mind, but yes I suppose it doesn't 'confirm' anything for certain.

[narrow marsh]

Definitely an easter egg if not an oversight

I wish you good hunting!

[nimble ingot]

Perhaps not an oversight in the game, or the lore.

I think it is more like a plothole.

One that might also explain why we have a limited amount of creatures. Especially the kind that lives on land.

Birds are pretty much the only exclusive land/air dwelling animal.
We have not seen horses, cows, boars, or even hippos or captbaras for example.

Most of the creatures in Sky are aquatic (or amphibic) animal species.

It may hint at a plothole where TGC is not quite certain how they want to present the ecosystem in Sky.

Which if this deduction were to be true, may wxplain why birds are not really used or expanded on. And why we are not shown how the ecosystem of Sky trully works.

Which is a shame.
Especially when it has been 5 years and we learned more about the story (more like revisions of the lore) and the ancestors than the world, let alone the elders.

[narrow marsh]

The egg has been there since Launch, correct?
Wait.... Did it maybe appear in Light Awaits somewhere?

[nimble ingot]

They are a remnant of an old quest of a bird looking for its babies or eggs.
But that that with a grain of salt. Because it was from Light Awaits and I dont recall what exactly that work in progress quest was like from researching it.

[gentle leaf]

So I've been thinking. What do you guys think is the qualification, social or political or spiritual, that determined whether or not someone was capable of or allowed to have a cape? Because some of the spirits we meet don't have capes, like the ceremonial worshipper. And the culture had a very big thing for transport by boats, while we see in the current day that we fly via the capes. So either the flight capability developped at a later date when the sky kids came along, or capes were relatively rare for people to use, hence the built up infrastructure for boat travel

[narrow marsh]

Jenova Chan and that same Yui Tanabe that you showed to me worked very hard on establishing the feelings they wanted to instill, and the emphasis is more on the soul cycle than an 'ecosystem'.

In my opinion it's not that they wouldn't know how they'd like to present complicated concepts such as an ecosystem or important characters like Resh;

But rather that they think it'd be too much work / too complicated, at least according to Chan. 🕯️

[nimble ingot]

Based on the gameplay alone, the elders bless ancestors with capes. So it might have been from them. Or they were from the winged light we find.

Which further begs the question of how the winged light applies to the ancestors.
Something that yet again the game neglects to answer, let alone give enough clues to string together a theory.

My best guess with what we have (which is a long shot, hence why not making a stand-alone theory for it).
Wing light is only visible to those who need them or earned them.
Similar to in Eden, we embrace one after giving out lives and dying in Eden.
So for the ancestors, they may have gotten their capes from completing a trial (season of Prophecy) or knowing where to find one that may reveal itself to them.

But that is a loosely woven guess rather than a theory.

[narrow marsh]

Oh! Well yea exactly if it's from Light Awaits then it's not necessarily solid evidence for anything in Sky: COTL. We can still keep it in mind though 👀🕯️

[nimble ingot]

Fair.

They would also need to take into account that means they created a world, but omitted how this world works. Which leaves it uo to us to guess on what should fill in these holes.

If this was a book, it would have more holes than swiss cheese in terms of what is given to the reader in terms of world building.

Even in Journey. Omitting the nature of the desert like world works fine, because the world never left holes for that to be brought up in conversation with the game itself.
Even the flower easter egg is excused because it was clear why it was there.

Back to Sky, the "why" we dont know where creatures are from is teased with eggs and the hints at a life cycle with creatures living in the world. But left intentially blank for the reader to fill in.

It is like asking why can boats fly. And the ancestors just go
Leaving it up skykids to simply guess the answer and still not having the satisfaction of knowing it is right.

[long vessel]

Around 10:42 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhZrOA6GBoI
Q: We see creatures underwater that we often see flying - did any of them originate from the water, or did they learn to swim at some point?

Yui Tabane’s answer: Right, yeah, that’s an interesting question. If you look carefully at the Season of Sanctuary, some of you might have noticed mantas and whales coming out of the ocean. We can’t really tell in detail about the lore behind this, but we can confirm, at least, that these flying creatures emerged out of the ocean.

Unless I'm thinking of another quote, this one doesn't seem so definitive as to say all life comes from the ocean.

[nimble ingot]

So in other words.
Fish make eggs, eggs hatch out baby fish, baby fish grow up and then repeat.

Then add in an magical amphian flying chapter for any other creature than fish.

And for birds, ommit the water part.

[long vessel]

Sounds about right to me, as far as we can guess lol

[nimble ingot]

Like I said, we make educated gueses, but dont get the satisfaction of knowing what TGC intends for the answer.

Call me cynical, I understand why veterans of the game become less active in the lore chat.

[long vessel]

For sure. It's definitely a game of recycling the same questions and talking points until we get more crumbs to sustain us lol. I find myself taking lots of breaks, since I know I won't know more until at least next year. Still, sometimes I can't keep my gears from turning

[nimble ingot]

Right.

Imagine you start learning about the lore in 2019 and you learn what took you 5 year to get can now gained in a span of a few hours of asking people and reading their summaries.

And none of which is thanks to the devs outside of their livestreams. But not the game itself.

Using the book scenario as an example again. It is like reading an episodic novel. But the more revealing info of the story is from interviews with the writiers and people's theories. But the book leaves it up to the reader to fill in these plotholes.

It is one thing to have the player tack on their own story to one they are listening to. It is another when you leave space for the player to add their own flavour to the story they listening along to.

Before I get smacked for rampling on about things outside or lore again.
I'll leave it at that.

[spiral vault]

I still think the king (and hopeful steward) were both wingless skykids. Plus, tom zhao's concept art was made over 10 years ago, and the story has changed a lot to allow such a minute detail

[bright sail]

you're certainly entitled to your opinion and interpretation, but it's a little silly to say mine isn't "allowed" when it has just as much evidence if not more than your belief

[bright sail]

i think a good starting point would be to look at who exactly in the game had capes! we see a lot of the seasonal guides having pretty or intricate cape designs, but we also see normal joes having them— so it could be as simple as a cultural fashion sense that the skykids then mimic like any other cosmetic? or perhaps there's some sort of "hierarchy" or importance to them that hasn't been explicitly stated yet

hopeful steward acquiring their own cape during the fireworks festival also came to mind, as if it was a rite of passage or something that was gifted down to those who did something to earn it. very interesting to think about, since it's the only time we've seen a spirit actively acquire one, and not already have it when we meet them

[narrow marsh]

Journey's world is 10x more simple than Sky. Journey is very loosely based off of middle eastern architecture and cultures and that's a super vague concept. Meanwhile Sky is 70% based off extremely intricate emotional palettes from Buddhism, Hinduism, and iconic Asian storytelling themes of the rise and fall of human hubris.

It's not hard to keep sewn Journey together, but when even the devs themselves are invited to follow the "a lot of this is open to your interpretation" idea, there can be a lot of discrepancy. If Ash never told us about the lore bible, there'd still be plenty of reason to believe Sky never had any genuinely official story until Two Embers started being written. 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

Thank you! Yes this is the quote I've been thinking of. Yui is so sneaky, there's clearly more to his hint than meets the eye 🕯️

[long vessel]

100% agree. That was worded to be so purposefully vague. But honestly, saying they can't say much is almost just as interesting because it gives the impression it will be revealed in time. I can only hope (and pray, and beg )

[long vessel]

I've been giving this a lot of thought and the figure skater from Village of Dreams keeps coming to mind. Their whole outfit was similar to their family's, right? And was gifted to them before their big performance?

Personally, I think capes were a cultural norm all across the realms, but I also think that if you're from a realm with less resources, there's a higher chance of you not having a cape. Maybe your family doesn't have one to pass down, and maybe they're expensive to have made. Whether made of light or cloth or some combination, it would still take skilled labor to make them, which would cost money (darkstones, potentially) or some kind of barter (trading for work or light creatures or other items).

[pastel brook]

[nimble ingot]

Sorry for the long message, Tomte.

the short answer is the story of sky is complex. I believe the narrative has become fragmented from the years of small changes in the seasons.

[nimble ingot]

It was not you who nuked a massive message this time.

I should honestly rather keep my inputs short to not smother what remains of the lorechat's activity.

[scarlet kelp]

Theory: Shell Collector supplied the shells to whoever made the Music Shells seen in Days of Nature and Season of Duets

[nimble ingot]

Conch shells are known to make ocean wave sounds when you put your ear near it.

They also are used as musical instruments when made in a certain way.

The music of the conch shell presumably was something that the Duets pair bonded over and inspired them to play music.

[narrow marsh]

I don't think it will be revealed, except maybe in an interview or another art book (lore bible reveal???)

As for their wording, it definitely implies there's more to it than that. From there we can decide what the most likely outcomes are. (I'm going to bring this back up later today or tomorrow fr) I don't believe the Truth is so far from our grasp. 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

I don't believe it has to be such a reductive manner of recycling. 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

I think that's wonderful though. We, as a lore community, have created Establishments. A cultural foundation. We have built this structure; this science. We are archeologists, philosophers, and biologists, and this is what they intended. I don't want Megabird to fly down and give us the answers; when there is so much that's achievable without their help.

Also your ramble was actually about the lore this time, you don't need to apologize for anything 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

I also agree that, due to the different base-realm spirits that we see having them; it's very possible for it to be a fashion rather than a social inclination. 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

? Which message :V

[nimble ingot]

It was basically a mile long message.
And I realised it was not really worthwhile reading after sending it.

[spiral vault]

No, what I meant is that the king becoming a skykid is allowed by the story shifting over 10 yeras. I hope that was clear

[narrow marsh]

Bet, send it to my dms

[long vessel]

That's true. How do you stay so engaged with the lore? Are your gears just always turning?

[narrow marsh]

[narrow marsh]

@nimble ingot I get the sentiment, as usual, however I still don't and have never believed that the story has changed or been retconned after Launch. 👀🕯️

If we were to want to imply or believe that it has; there should be proof, and while people may have arguments for the idea that many retcons have happened, I am confident that the evidence provided can be debunked.

[nimble ingot]

One example of a suspected retcon I would give is Aviary.

the original from Light Awaits was not a village with the portals on one side. It was a tower and the 'windpath' gates leading off to the realms.

It was removed due to pacing issues in the game since its launch in 2019.

Then this year it has returned. It got a village and is now less of a hub area for skykids and spirits. And now a refuge where the spirits can move in as you ascend them and you now also get a home (nest).

These changes significantly changed the introduction of the game, and by extension how the lore is presented to skykids.

All of that said.

This is purely speculation coupled with observations.

This is not confirmed as canon.

[narrow marsh]

Mm, as I said, I don't believe the story has changed from launch. As far as I'm concerned, Light Awaits is a completely different story and game but with similar ideas, and should be considered in our research that way.

[bright sail]

based on everything we've seen in-game, regarding the figure depicted as the prince in murals, the way it compares to winged light (which were called "memories" in concept art), everything we've seen about eden and all of it being reinforced in season of shattering (even down to the allusion to two embers in the final memory of the eden crystal shattering), the whole journey through the game to return to orbit (and the depictions of the motherbird in the ending cutscene as well as the pond surrounding the entrance to the office)— basically everything reinforces the fact that the original concept story of sky has not changed in the 5 years that the game has been live

the hopeful steward is definitely important in some way; after all, they're the only child spirit we've seen in the game up until now iirc, and it's pretty clear that they're the dusk ember and will be important both to the animation and the collaborative seasons— but based on the fact that they're a spirit and have no source of light of their own, it kind of cements the fact that they're simply an ancestor spirit and not a skykid

what tomte said about the prince being a "prototype" skykid (having the gift of fire but no wings) makes more sense than him being the same despite never being depicted with wings

[narrow marsh]

As we observed in the 2nd teaser from SkyFest, Stewie the Dusk Ember wasn't even able to summon a candle from their own Light, at least at that point in the show. Who knows what could happen towards the end of their journey?

[bright sail]

the fact that we saw a teaser of a dark and light child in the void, in the opposite positions that we see them in game, implies quite a lot i'm excited to see

[narrow marsh]

If I remember correctly, the "light child" in that shot was Stewie (just look at their hair!)

I think the dark figure was just a blank skykid though.

[bright sail]

my first impression was that the light child was the prince and the dark child was the steward, but that would Also be very interesting

[spiral vault]

Here's the thing, skykids can become spirits as well

In fact, any creature of light can become a spirit, look at the shattering memories

[narrow marsh]

Dang it can someone pull up that shot I'm so lazy

[spiral vault]

Perhaps that's why there's the red candle in the beginning of the game, it belonged to Hopeful Steward

I do think that Hopeful Steward is the most significant new lore addition since maybe Prophecy. They're basically the ambassador between the old and the new

[narrow marsh]

Wow. I've actually... Never thought about the fact that those are indeed possibly "spirits". Interesting.

Anyways their argument mostly lied with their Flame; they don't have a visible Flame in their chest.

Unless it's another o v e r s i g h t ?
Did Stewie have a Flame in their chest in the teasers?

[bright sail]

those are more memories or imprints than actual spirits though. that's like saying the mannequins from revival or the furniture sets from nesting are also spirits

[spiral vault]

The ambassador between the old and the new, in both the lore and the meta-narrative about the season of revival re-introducing stuff

[narrow marsh]

Mmm nah idk they're kinda valid, at least somewhat. I don't think it's that unreasonable of a premise.

[bright sail]

here's a screenshot from my own recording of it

i definitely see what you mean about the light child looking like steward

[narrow marsh]

Yep that's Stewie right there. But it's unfortunately too difficult to tell if the dark figure is Resh

[bright sail]

yeah for sure

[spiral vault]

It makes sense that a spirit is simply a state of being, perhaps every creature has a "soul" and the spirit is just the unraveled version of it

[narrow marsh]

Yeah I love the way you had put that!
They really do tie everything together. The only 'retcon' we'll ever need 🥰

[spiral vault]

Except for the very old Switch Trailer, neither Hopeful Steward or the King had any chest light. Remember that in the new intro, it somewhat implies that the chest light is an acquired ability rather than an innate one

[narrow marsh]

In the old Nintendo launch trailer they had it?? But now they don't????
Pulling my hair out brb

[bright sail]

i dont think i know what youre referencing :0

[spiral vault]

I don't think it's too worrying, the nintendo switch trailer in general is extremely different, the king's design has been massively simplified

[narrow marsh]

The king was in the Switch launch trailer????

[spiral vault]

It's the same character kind of, but there are differences, perhaps they used a different studio

[narrow marsh]

Ah, yes, I get what you mean now.

[tribal otter]

I mean, the first image he's wearing a shirt that's meant to show the light
In the second, he's wearing multiple layers and a pin over where his light would be

[bright sail]

its also possible the screenshots are from different points in time. this is just speculation since its pulled from concept art, but i do remember in the original timeline, the prince was "gifted" fire from an elder light creature in his time of need so maybe something similar to that will end up happening in the animation? cause it looks like in the second image he's still an orphan without light, and in the first image he has the light in his chest displayed with a symbol of the eden crystal on his mask

[narrow marsh]

There are other scenes from the redesigned version where he isn't wearing that stuff though. We need those shots now too

[tribal otter]

Also not really related but how did this sweet lil guy turn into a corrupted maniac

[bright sail]

prolonged exposure to darkness

[narrow marsh]

Real talk though can we appreciate what a vast improvement they made to the art style? New Resh is just perfect

[tribal otter]

Fr
In the first image he's giving Noface
In the second he's the sweetest bebe

[versed mirage]

Part of me thinks the ending of two embers will be at aviary’s door.

[narrow marsh]

Aviary's door? How about

[versed mirage]

Orbit I feel would be the “ending” but considering the steward’s body is in aviary when we find it, maybe during the credits it will sorta show him making it to the door before he finally dies or something.

[narrow marsh]

TGC, I hope you're taking notes and preparing to hire Gushko

[bright sail]

if that dark child is resh, i'm suspecting maybe steward transfers their light to him in the shattering's void and returns to aviary before succumbing to the darkness

but that also begs the question, do the spirits' statues appear where they died, or just somewhere that was significant to them in life?

[tribal otter]

I've always wondered that lmao

Of course then it wouldn't be called fainting soldier it would be called dying soldier XD

[bright sail]

LOL yeah and i dont think the cheerful spectator cheered to death

[spiral vault]

From what we know about the structure, it'll either end at the hugging scene or the first Skykid falling. But it depends on how "mainstream" two embers will be. It seems like all references to the game are thought out

[gilded socket]

This entire discussion makes me think of something

What is the difference between a light creature and a spirit? Under what conditions does a light creature turn into a spirit?

[narrow marsh]

Great question! First we have to Define what a Spirit is.

[inland cliff]

Will there be one day Sky's so stuffed with content that it can be considered as an open-world game?

[gilded socket]

It isn't already? 💀

[spiral vault]

The main story is linear, but the postgame is open world

[narrow marsh]

It's open exploration, but I wouldn't consider it open world

[narrow marsh]

Okay I'm not busy at the moment.

Luckily, I've made an entire blog paper on how to define a Spirit 💀
So firstly, in my <conceptual> understanding of Light substance and its biological effects; Spirits have to be effectively alive. Physically-present living entities with tangible bodies made of Light.
When people hear "spirit" they immediately think of all of the common stereotypes from media and the like.
A common misconception those stereotypes immediately give is that they are "ghosts" or "memories" only, and in my opinion that just doesn't reflect what Spirits are at this point in the game. But they are 'unbound' to this world just as the stereotypes would express. We can see that they can Ascend and Descend to and from the Light at will.

Spirits and Descendants (this is how we warp btw) are the only Beings we have seen doing this.
But we can see the freed light creatures out of the shards Ascending in the exact same way Spirits do!
So from there... I think we can get closer to deciding if the creatures coming out of the shards are Spirits or "just memories".
@gilded socket

[gilded socket]

Yeah there has to be a distinction between spirits and memories
One of the things that always fascinate me is how spirits, people of the past, can continue to live on despite their circumstances (of course with a little help from our skykids)
That brings me to the next point
How did they become a spirit? And why can't they come back normally?

[nimble ingot]

They fell (passed away) from the darkness in the realms (that or illness, war, etc.). Then many years passed for them trapped in stone husks before skykids came around.

They are ghosts that have awoken in the ruins of their ancient civilisation. So, it is safe to assume they have no body to return to.

The more important question is why can't they pass on?

• They can be brought to Orbit, but do not cross the gate like our skykids do.
• They moved into Aviary, but are still ghosts.

If the old lore still applies. We need Megabird back to help them ascend properly.
If not, then the devs have yet released that final chapter for the ancestors. i.o.w. our skykids have yet found a true solution for the ancestors.

[gilded socket]

That is the other issue indeed
Why can't they follow the same cycle as normal skykids?

What is the difference between them and us? It's clear that we both are able to succumb to the darkness, but unlike them, we can return in our usual form.

I think the process of a light creature turning into a spirit may help explain what this is, but the conditions for this event feel unknown right now.

[nimble ingot]

Perhaps it does not work the same way for them as for skykids.

We know for the Little Prince (a human boy who was petrified in the Eden Storm), he got to presumably return to his rose. He basically got the same ending as with his book. We may not know what would actually happen to the ancestors.

Maybe they are too scared?
Maybe they know it is not the right time?
We honestly cannot find a true answer for this. Because that chapter of the Sky story has not been released yet.

I would have loved to jump on that bandwagon about Two Embers being the thing that gives the answers. Although I would not want to count on those chicken before they hatched.

[nimble ingot]

We know they can get sick, they can get hurt, they can be killed.
We also know they are not fireproof.

We may not know if ancestors were truly able to fly with their capes. Although I would think flight for them was likely not a thing given they are so dependant on mantas, flying boats and other forms of transport.

[gilded socket]

At the very least I think a skykid can do those first 3, but the 4th is definitely a distinction to be made.

So is it that the king/prince (I have no idea which) would be the most similar ancestor to skykids?

At least that feels like the most likely explanation

[nimble ingot]

true on all accounts.
Although how a skykids can get sick, hurt, or killed may not be the same as how ancestors might.

It is a shame the game does not explore these ideas. But with the same token it is understandable.

[gilded socket]

I'm also awaiting regarding the Steward
Pinpointing what they were before spiritifying could have major implications

They look like a mirror to skykids in so many aspects
If they are just like skykids, then that means even skykids can turn into spirits???

[nimble ingot]

That is a good point.

To mention as a side point, we do know that skykids existed in the time of the ancestors (see season of passage scene, some tidbits from performance and two embers).
There are also speculation that the revival guide is/was the wasteland orphan from the two embers trailers.

Which begs the question on what has changed?

• did the orbit gate open in our present and not for them?
• did the storm behave differently than in the present?
• was the megabird present when the spirits were trapped?
• if present day skykids can be reborn, why can't ancient skykids then?

[gilded socket]

And to think that Two Embers might not even answer any of these questions

Oh no

Wait
If the Megabird is a combination of all light, shouldn't it always be present? According to the ancestors, the cycle has always existed

[nimble ingot]

-Until the harmony was disrupted by the spreading darkness and the calamity in Eden.

[gilded socket]

So you mean whatever happened in Eden may have completely disrupted the Megabird.

Wait then how did it come back online? It certainly must've been fixed for the new skykids to emerge.

[nimble ingot]

I dont believe the Crystal in Eden was ever "fixed".

[gilded socket]

I meant the cycle in this case

[nimble ingot]

I think it is us (present day skykids) helping to restart the cycle.
We were the ones who sought out the spirits. We were the ones who visited each temple and awakened their Elders. We were the ones who climb the stormy cliffs of Eden. And we were the ones coming back to do the whole thing over and over again.

And with each successive cycle from the skykids, we might be helping the flow of light cycle once more.

We are the bridge, basically.
(and as just a theory)

[gilded socket]

Even then it's not foolproof
With this system, someone is always going to be trapped in the Eye of Eden. No matter how many people 1 frees, that one person will end up staying there instead

And people theorize that it isn't an instant get out of jail card either, they could've waited for a long time

[nimble ingot]

True.
It has made some difference, but it is not sustainable.

Should the skykids stop. The kickstarting of the cycle stops as well.

It is essentially us running hamster wheels in place of batteries to run a car.

[gilded socket]

After the car exploded because they tried to put a nuclear reactor in it

At the very least, with how the world is expanding, the difference is quite stark compared to when this game began

In the past, the realms feel abandoned and barren, but now we have multiple events, traditions, competitions, and even a whole village that the spirits love to frequent

So the skykids are working to a significant degree

I would like to ask what the final stretch is to 100% seal the deal and fix this issue, but something tells me this story will never reach that point for many different reasons

[nimble ingot]

Personally, I would love the idea of the game having different endings.

One where skykids can choose to ascend and "not return" (as a canon or possible ending), and as an alternative to the end credits.
And another is skykids continue to exist in the world.

What I do wonder could happen is a time where skykids are no longer needed. And their time is over.
A time when they ascend Eden, they wont return.
Because the world needs something else to keep it going, and the skykids are no longer needed.

[gilded socket]

By the way, quite a good number of people here are convinced that skykids can turn into spirits

Also
I see some previous messages, but how does Aviary retcon anything?

oh wait you mean how aviary was retconned.

Either way, I think the best way to go about this spirit debacle is to assume that all light creatures with 0 exceptions can turn into spirits? Maybe? It feels like the most consistent answer and it would be weird if only ancestors can turn into spirits for some reason.

And so it cycles back to not understanding spiritification.

Dang these games love cycles huh

[nimble ingot]

Yes.
The point of that older argument (aka debate) was that parts of the lore has changed over the years. And by parts, there is likely not much. But most of these changes I suspect stems from the ending and some obscure lore sections.

Aviary for example was originally a 'hub world' with cloud gates acting as portals.
Then near or upon release, Aviary was removed (supposedly scrapped) for over 4 years.
Then it is added back in as a 'new' area that also brings some of its old lore with it.
A retcon, in my opinion based on this series of events.

Hope this helps clear things up.

[pastel brook]

Can we revive that one bird outside of the citadel too?

[gilded socket]

...
Wait that's actually a good point

[nimble ingot]

Of course. But it was not us who discontinued its quest, bot.

[gilded socket]

How is that just straight up a bird's corpse?

Actually have we ever seen any bodies outside of those that succumbed to darkness?

[nimble ingot]

It looks more like a snowman in the shape of a bird.

Then again, it is a relic of an older time in the game.

[nimble ingot]

yes, the crystal statues in Eden.
And the stone bodies in the aftermath of the war in Aurora's quest.

I would love to see the bodies in the battlefield. More so out of morbid curiosity. But also for the emphasis on the eeriness of the war-torn area.

[pastel brook]

feed me peas and feed me peas

[gilded socket]

Arent those all people who succumbed to the darkness?
Well maybe not the war ones

[nimble ingot]

darkness, or war. The concept started up that section right after the war.
It could be a transition from the war, or a transition showing all the death in general.

[narrow marsh]

Vice versa, actually!
The spirits return to the world in order to help the skykids! But it does indeed seem like they enjoy being here for themselves too

[narrow marsh]

See, that right there is my current issue. They don't need a 'body' in the way that you're thinking. All that was destroyed was their outer shell, but the Light substance inside is still very alive and very real.
I don't agree with outright calling them ghosts, but I get why so many theorists instantly lean that direction. 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

Correct! Something you and Raider are missing in this discussion, is that The Light does not need all of itself, such as the Ancestors, in order to function.

Let's use the analogy of the water cycle compared to the Light cycle.
If I dam off a river to create a reservoir, the ocean is still the ocean, not really ever affected at all.

A common idea I see occurring is that all light creatures stopped being created for a time after the cataclysm, but there's no reason to believe that in my opinion.

As for why it took so long for Descendants to start falling to the world, I couldn't say; but a response I do have to that is yet another question:
"Why do you think The Light would instantly react to the cataclysm and create the perfect solution?"

[fickle tundra]

late but i smell rain world

[narrow marsh]

Rain world, hollow knight, sky cotl, they all share some similar themes and terminologies enough that their fanbases end up linking at random places

[nimble ingot]

A ghost is an apparitions of a person who has passed away. They are known to have a spectral body, can appear and disappear at will and are sometimes seen flying or floating. Not all ghost do so however.

A spirit is defined as a non-physical part of a person (i.e. a soul).

In context with the paranormal as well as folklore; ghost and spirit can be used interchangeably (as in they are the same).

As a guess, the reason why TGC opted to use "spirit" instead of calling them ghosts may have to do with the way these words can be associated with.
A ghost usually refers to a scary entity that haunts a place. While spirit is a more neutral and universal term. It is certainly more approachable than a phantom, spectre or poltergeist.

A different situation to compare is when season of Abyss presented a crew of scavengers. At one point in the beta, it was believed that they were pirates. But TGC were clear with the specific wording.

[nimble ingot]

May I ask why you are against the idea of the ancestor spirits being associated with ghosts?

[narrow marsh]

You said that "a spirit is defineas a non-physical part of a person (i.e. a soul)".
I believe that they are physical.

"Spirit" in the way you are applying it as synonymous to "ghost" implies that the Spirits are merely a fraction or weakened form of their original selves. Meanwhile, I believe that the true form of the Ancestor is the Spirit; hidden beneath that shell. Fully Connected, purely Light, with nothing anchoring them to this world anymore. They belong in the Sky now. But they come back down to be with us.

Their Spirit is their bare essence. In the real world, religious and spiritual practices discuss this essence as immaterial.
But the Light (substance) is not immaterial. The same rules don't apply. Their Souls are tangible.

I love lexicology so much 🕯️

Before anyone says TGC wouldn't have ever intentionally intended souls to be material and I have 0 basis;
We need only to look as far as Motes.

[hushed steeple]

Hey I recently startet playing Sky again, is there someone who could maybe Tell me the main „lore“ or story? Like the thing with the elders and everything? You can also message me privatly! 🙏🏼👀 (sorry if im interrupting anything)

[narrow marsh]

The lore is meant to be very unclear and unspecific, so that people can have their own interpretations and try to discover the 'Truth' for themself! Here's a pamphlet made by the lore community on some things we kinda are sure on though 👀🕯️
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/12XSkaMV_5UYG-an_Qo37ItyKP6GaqBBA6iRqBVE2qck/mobilebasic#heading=h.cmfnuox3fw3h

[hushed steeple]

Ohhh thank you!! 🙏🏼❤️

[nimble ingot]

It sadly does not help to post a screenshot with no source. Screenshot often have updated information that can be found.

But no worries, here is your missing source: https://defining-skyology.tumblr.com/post/750429437975232512/defining-spirits

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit#:~:text=%3A the immaterial intelligent or sentient part of a person
^^ See the Merriam Webster has more than 10 definitions for the word "spirit"
The reason is because of context.

• a supernatural being
• a soul
• a malevolent being that is bodiless (aka ghost)
• an immaterial intelligent part of a person (in contrast, the body is the physical part)
• an emotion

In Sky lore (based purely on what the game provides), we know spirits are ancestors who have fallen (died). In the game, ancestors spirits have memories that we relive and release from husks (defined as a shell. Something physical like a vessel).

All of that said, I would like to rephrase the question:
Is there a problem with people who use the word ghost in their interpretations of ancestor spirit in Sky?

It is perfectly fine to have opinions. And by extension to simply agree to disagree.
I dont have an issue when you dont want to use the word "ghost." However am confused why you against people using the word in their own opinions?

[narrow marsh]

I am Defining Sky lol, and I doubt that Merriam Webster has changed its page in the 4 months since I made that post (unless )

Context is extremely important, which is why I believe that, due to the evidence I lay out, the first definition is the only definition the Spirits need.

As I've explained, I think it goes against the story to say that they are worse off as Spirits, or less alive as if they are "ghosts". However, I only explained it once initially as giving my two centsb to the conversation. I don't think I pushed for the "anti-ghost rhetoric" after that without your consent, because you specifically asked me why I don't like the use of ghost. I think we've both made valid arguments enough to the point that there's not much more to be said from either of us; we just end up believing two different things and that's okay

[nimble ingot]

Seasonal joke theory.

Skykids + crab curse = Were-crab Skykids

[long vessel]

Lol I like that a lot. What would their transformation trigger be? Touching darkness?

[nimble ingot]

Their temper.
The same way crabs become angry and start charging.
Were-crab skykids become irritable and become more and more intolerable of their personal space.

Should they lose their temper, they become a crab

[long vessel]

Perfect, I love that

[rain frost]

local skid leading the Hiking Grouch up the mountain has fallen off a ledge 4 times and is now a crab, more at 6 /j

[spiral vault]

I think they can, after all we turn into a blue spirit ball at the end of eden

[nimble ingot]

That reminds me.
As of a recent update (can't be older than 2 months)
Skykids entering/leaving areas or instances sometimes become sprites for a split second.

This has been a thing when you call them down in constellation tables for a while.

It was just interesting to see in the game in general as well.

This 'sprite' effect is what spirits are known to do when they are appearing and disappearing as well.

[scarlet kelp]

Two observations. There are nine large candles in the upper most level of the Vault just before the Storm not sure of any significance yet but their placement is peculiar

Secondly, as you approach the Eye there are couple structures that look somewhat like mausoleums, more investigation required

[scarlet kelp]

Further observations. Most of the headstones seen throughout the realms are painted with the Manta Riders colors, with the exception of the gilded headstones in the Valley. The headstones in the Ancestors Shrine area of the Prairie are decorated with irregular shaped plates of gold hung from cordage, which upon closer inspection bear some strange patterns almost reminiscent of wind. Upon visiting the Wind Paths several wide mouth jars can be found with what seems to be raw gold inside, suggesting that gold was not only used by some of the tribes but perhaps traded, and given the Gold Jar seen on the first floor of the Vault maybe seen as valuable as well

[scarlet kelp]

Sky Temple is Eden Temple possibly

Also there's a definite difference between the factory-esque building seen in the distance from the Wasteland and the rest of the architecture

[floral skiff]

where are the playable parts of eden located relative to the peak of it

[cold sparrow]

Fairly close to it. At the end of the Eden run, you can see the Eden diamond at the heart of the storm, which for all we know was located in the dead center of the capital city built on the peak of the mountain

[nimble ingot]

hypothetically speaking.
Would skykids truly value their friends?

This is a very meta topic. Simply becuase it is something the player(s) can answer.

But strictly speaking in the game. (so Skykid lore)

• Would skykids truly appreciate having friends?
• Would skykids have human emotions (again, not the player behind the skykids specifically. But how the skykids behave with the player) ?
• Are skykids more human because of the players immersed in the game; or are skykids meant to act like humans like a puppet?

[scenic pebble]

i believe the answer is
depends
everyone is different after all, and i don't think every skid is made the same
||but i choose to believe every living being yearns for connections with others||
while their fate IS predestined they are free to do whatever during their travels
hell, they learn how to express themselves by saving others
i don't know if they have free will but it feels more like they are just that, kids
kids taking part in the local communities and learning about the world
so back on track, i guess some would truly care about their friends while others just cared a bit less
are players the source of their humanity?
are they just an avatar or a window into the whole thing?
i guess it's just the silent protagonist issue, the skid as an idea seems to have something of an identity in an of it's own, it just kinda gets added onto by you, the player
||idk it's literally midnight and i should be sleeping not writing this||

[nimble ingot]

I love this explanation.

Sorry it is a bit deep, but appreciate your input all the same.

Hope you rest well

[tribal otter]

Something I noticed: Teth, Ayin, and Tsadi, the elders who have a large abundance of corruption in their realms, and who also possibly assisted Resh during the war, have perfectly symmetrical gate heads, with only a few minor cracks.

Daleth, the twins Samekh, and Lamed, those without much corruption in their realms and probably fought against Resh during the war, have ruined gates. Daleth with a chunk out of his gate head; one of the twin pillars fallen; and a slice through Lamed's.

This also matches the final Shattering memory. As the elders are knocked back, the masks on Lamed and Daleth crumble, and the twins have large gashes on theirs. Only Tsadi, Daleth, and Trth remain relatively unscathed.

[novel marten]

I always thought it was related to the realms' proximity to Eden, maybe those physically closer to Eden had more effects. Now that we have Shattering, that might help key in some details too. I hope that Two Embers will eventually go into more detail about the elders and their relationships, though.

[nimble ingot]

portals are also based on their state of civilisation. The more progress they made, the more detailed their portal frame became.

granted this old concept has changed a bit. Although some elements have seemingly made it to the live game still.

[long vessel]

I'm so glad you also connected this to the Shattering memory, that was the first thing that came to mind for me reading that. You just fleshed out a thought I've been trying to put to words for, like, weeks - so thank you for that! I absolutely see the same symbolism you're seeing

[tribal otter]

Yw!!!

Oh ye!!! Also, can yall see the similarities between the old Dawn gate and the Aviary gate?

[spiral vault]

They both involve the Megabird symbol

[untold ridge]

So you know how the sky children are uhh y'know somewhat alarmingly not under adult supervision. Are the spirits just watching them? or are just older sky kids just looking over em? And also are they ALL born from The Light?

[gilded socket]

Well they all have to be from the light since they are light creatures

Skybot yeeted your message?

[untold ridge]

No i deleted it myself im rephrasing apoligies

[gilded socket]

Oh
👍

[untold ridge]

So if thats the case...How do they operate? Because candle running makes it look like its exhausting to do. Do they have a hierarchy? take strolls? ignite capitalism?

[gilded socket]

Feels like the skykids are vibing tbh

[untold ridge]

I think I'm going too deep to find out the lore of the society of the skykids

[gilded socket]

Do skykids even have a society rn???

[untold ridge]

Maybe they have a hunter/gatherer kind of society??

Considering there's edible food and drinks in the game

[gilded socket]

Maybe they dont even need to rebuild society

By reigniting spirits, they actually get to revitalize certain parts of the ancestors' civilization

[pastel brook]

Using emulators is against the Sky TOS, @untold ridge. Please don’t use or discuss emulators here.

[gilded socket]

The what

[untold ridge]

but I didin't? Thats a rule???

anyways to rephrase what i was previously saying. So they are essentially kind of relying on the spirits to well remake that civilization though its more of a sanctuary than a actual society. Confused?

[gilded socket]

Sort of

[forest sentinel]

Ok this absolutely random and im not even sure whether this is a theory or not but.. I just realized that the crabs(that are almost cooked💀) dont have any of those black particles so i wonder if those black particles on dark creatures can dissapear if we skykids just collectively burn them

[solid cave]

why was this skykid in... jail?

no 😭 fearbot please

[spiral vault]

Where'd you get this image from

[cold sparrow]

That's a spot in the Vault refuge

[nimble ingot]

Winged Light can be found in many places.
They usually found standing in seemingly random places.

• some are found out in the open
• some are found near or on, or even inside things (trees, buildings or objects like a pot)
• and the ones in Eden are seen sitting in the Point of No Return tunnel.

[solid cave]

is there a lore reason this child of light is in the jail cell [?] or no? also this is a jail cell right

[solid cave]

das me :D
and yeah it's the area where the winged light is found, in the repository

[cold sparrow]

There is no known lore for that. This, like many things in sky, is up to your own interpretation

[nimble ingot]

The remembrance season area is called the Repository of Refuge.
A repository is where you store things, which in this case are memory lanterns as it seems.
Seeing they are taking refuge in there, it means the place has been neglected or abandoned, or simply overlooked

All of that said. The bars could have been part of a window or ventilation channel. The bars could have been there to barricade, enforce or simply prevent things from getting in/out.
It could also have been once a gate or a doorway that broke down. But it is difficult to tell given that this repository is out in the void of the vault. And while many memories of the spirits suggest there was an outside area for the repository. Us skykids in the present are sadly not able to access this outside space to see and compare to the walls of this area.

It is possible for it to be a cage. Or used as a cage.
But it may be a stretch to go that route without more clues that help support the idea.

Namely what was meant to be put in there (aside from the wing light that we dont even know if the ancestors were aware of them per say, with the lack of evidence to show it).

[nimble ingot]

yes and no.

There have been places and theories that were unexplored. Until someone found a pattern or clues that helps support their hypothesis. Thus making it a theory, and potentially one that can expand on the lore.

[solid cave]

i didn't know what a repository actually was before you told me, so thank you lol those are very cool possibilities! it's quite a dilapidated area so you have a point
man, it'd be cool to have a spirit memory of the area itself ✨ it's a fever dream tho hehehe

[nimble ingot]

Given it was during the war times, I would not have blamed the winged light to be hiding in that place to begin with.
It is at least safer than out in the open.

[solid cave]

aww the poor thing...

it sems that nobody survived, even while in the vault of knowledge...

[nimble ingot]

I have a hypothesis, but it is more just food for thought (something to think about)

The climax in aurora's concert songs (through the eye of a child, scene)
The area shows us the end of the battles and ancestors who have passed away. It shows us a world that is empty and all light has been taken. Save for the few butterflies that give some of their light. Then a few mantas that survived does the same.
As the sun rises, it symbolises the beginning of a new day: Rebirth.
And with the light, Aurora rises as a massive spirit. We know that Aurora is associated with the Megabird with her voice in Orbit, and the voice that guides us at the start of the game (the song when you enter Dawn).

Aurora turns the butterflies into skykids before she ascends. This could be an analogy of the light she gathered and would transform into skykids.

Would this possibly be the game (Aurora season) telling the story of how the skykids were born?
When one reads between the lines. The world and/or the civilisation of the ancestors had to fall and the suriving creatures of light gave up some of their own light to help reform Aurora (who assumingly is playing as Megabird). Who created the skykids and let them fall back down to the realms and help restore the cycle (or at least help jumpstart it in some way?)

That, or just come back to fetch the last of the ancestor spirits.

The actual story may be much different than what the concert is implying.
Being that the song is about a world that is full of chaos and darkness, contrasted with the longing for the innocence of a child.
A parody of the old fading out, and a hope for a new chapter, a new generation to take its place. A hope for a better tomorrow to begin.

All of that said, I wonder if the skykids' mission is not to restore the light cycle as I believed for a while.

I wonder if skykids are meant to wait and find the ancestor spirits.
But what for?
Are we just here to help prepare the spirits for something, or are the spirits also waiting in turn?

But for what?
What is it that we are missing?

Are we simply waiting for the Eden Elder?
They are the only other thing we are missing, and the power of that elder would certainly help stop the Darkness once and for all.

I predict that some day the Eden Crystal will shatter. So it can clear the storm, and the way for light to pass through once more.

[solid cave]

maybe we're guiding them to something new, or maybe trying to rebuild from the ashes of history?

we have many builders now, and i think the elders could help us move forward from the disaster the world faced

[long vessel]

I have to officially change what I said about the krill in the shattering memory; they also have the eye-like spots we've noticed on the other models. If anyone has a light to get a better picture, it would be highly appreciated. Also, you only see two in this pic - the other two are further down, nearer to the light

This one shows all four

[tribal otter]

So... Are krill just Rudolph

[long vessel]

I'm having a super hard time getting a good picture but I also need to report that at least one of these krill also has its mouth open! The light orb on its snout is not the same as the orb inside its mouth from the other model. This krill, for those who want to check, is the upper left one when facing the crystal in the memory

[long vessel]

That's what I'm learning. This is why you don't exclude others for their shiny noses, people

[nimble ingot]

lol, I just highlighted the eyes.

[nimble ingot]

You know Crasher and Basher and Reaper and Shasta
Charlie and Captain and Iggy and Satan
But do you recall
The most famous dark dragon of all?

Krilly the Red-Nosed dragon
Had a very shiny nose
And if you ever saw it
You would even say it glows

All of the other Krill
Used to laugh and call him names
They never let poor Krilly
Join in any dragon games

Hold on, Should I change it Bobby instead?
For the Bobbit Worm?

[long vessel]

Sorry for how dark these are, hopefully y'all can still make out the nubby teeth. All the spots that are there for the one in the shattering spirit area are there for these too. And I haven't checked all of them, but all the ones I have checked also have their mouths open

[tribal otter]

That's so cool
We win, Lore Hunters!!!!

[nimble ingot]

Why is there a ring in its mouth?

Also, I did not know they had mouths.

[long vessel]

Thank you, this is helpful! I'm also wondering that. It could represent a throat. Or a tongue. I'm not sure, though

[nimble ingot]

It somehow reminds me of the warmachines of Journey.

[tribal otter]

Well they are pretty similar

[long vessel]

Holy moly, it's been so long since I played, I forgot how creepy they are lol. I see it though!

[tribal otter]

I wonder if Resh and the Duolingo owl would get along well

[long vessel]

Only as long as Duo doesn't require Resh to participate in lessons, I suspect

But then again, maybe Duo knows the different calls in Sky. That might actually be useful

[rare ruin]

I don’t think they could communicate (duolingo doesn’t know how sky people communicate) and resh may try to experiment on him since he would be the first creature he’d meet that doesn’t produce light.

In conclusion resh > duolingo

[tribal otter]

Well I mean Duolingo knows every language
I'm sure he could quickly learn how to call

[nimble ingot]

I sadly disagree.

Doulingo simply helps people learn many languages, but not every language that exists.

While Duo can learn a language with time. It needs people willing to help teach it.
Anyone who would have known the language in life are sadly dead now.

Not even sure if Dou would be able to learn from the Vault.

[tribal otter]

;-;

[long vessel]

What's strange to me is that the orb seems to be inside their mouths when they fly around. But I can see how they seem to have open mouths even here

[nimble ingot]

It reminds me of a Tibetan mythology with Korean Dragons that are sometimes seen holding what is called a dragon orb.
The dragons are seen as protectors, while the orb is believed to hold power (like a pearl of wisdom).

[long vessel]

Ooh, neat observation

[dawn socket]

Speaking of Journey, do we think the journey cosmetics have any lore significance within Sky?

[noble ferry]

I dont think collab cosmetics have any lore significance

[dawn socket]

Awwww

[manic cave]

the aurora cosmetics might not majorly lore significant but shes referenced in other parts of the game aswell, like the mural in harmony hall

[strange flare]

Like the prairie mantas have mouth
the shattering season indeed proven me that krills have a tiny mouth where the orb is

or if it's the eye?

I mean it's probably not necessarily the eye

many creatures on earth have many ways of navigating without an eye

[spiral vault]

In-univese, they're probsbly just cosmetics made by the skykids

[nimble ingot]

Sadly no.
Sky is a spiritual successor.
Meaning (as far as I understand it) any influence it shares with Journey would be adapted to Sky.

I would not make direct comparisons, but rather look at their common inspirations instead.

[deft sequoia]

Has anyone figured out why there are two children hugging as the winged-light in that one Shattering memory? i'm just curious.

[foggy glacier]

wait, but eden had an elder too right?

[nimble ingot]

My best guess is that it references the hug we do when we reach the end of Eden. Where we hug the child of light and for a brief moment shine like the winged light at the top of the Shattering memory of the Eden crystal.

[scenic pebble]

Resh

[rotund sphinx]

Whose masks are these?

Hm

[waxen ermine]

It’s the elders, compare each entrance door of the realm to the Eden door

[nimble ingot]

Yes, with dawn being the exception. their mask is not kn there.

[rare ruin]

The sky kids and the creature we play in journey have A LOT of similarities, has the devs ever talked about this?

[nimble ingot]

Yup.
They stated that sky is the "spiritual successor " to Journey in an interview.
I can look for that mention online if you need help finding it yourself.

[rare ruin]

So there’s no connection between there lore, they just have similar plot and physics?

[dawn socket]

That’s kinda my same deal, but I do like to think that the wanderer’s In journey tap Into the broader force that Is Light, or something akin to It.
Parallel universe that pulls from a similar force, In some super abstracted sense.
So In-lore it’s wholly coincidental

[nimble ingot]

Yes, because the universe of both games are not connected.

And if there are any similarities. It is likely because they were based by similar ideas.

Both are games that take place in a post apocalyptic setting where an ancient civilisation that relied on a mysterious source of power. And said ancient civilisation flourish but then fell because of a conflict where the power they relied on was turned against each other.

A notable difference is that Sky has more variety in landscapes, the characters are more familiar to the protagonist (the avatar character we play as), the character we play as in Sky is a blank slate for us to customise for our own identity while the Journey Traveller is less open to customisation (yes the colour of the cloaks and pattern tiers sort of count as customisation. However those are not cosmetics, they are details that the player earns with skill).

Another key difference is that the Traveller in Journey is destined to reach the summit and die (but then ascend and can start a new journey). While in Sky, the skykids are granted more freedom in what they can do, while still suggested to do some things. The death in Sky is more of a rite of passage for new players while in Journey it is a completion of a cycle.

Last, but not least. The storytelling format for Journey is known to be based on the Monomyth (The Hero's Journey).
Sky however is supposedly based on the Collective Journey, and/or relies on environmental storytelling with an open ended story.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask for more info on something or add your own thoughts.

[spiral vault]

Yes, but they probably follow the same naming scheme as the others, so Eden Elder

Resh isn't been an accurate name in modern Sky

[dense zodiac]

Do y’all remember the other day when I mentioned that mantas might think we as the player are baby mantas, and that’s why they carry us?
Well, I just got a screenshot of my sky kid next to what I’d consider a baby manta, if not extremely close to one, and there’s not a lot of size difference. We have a slightly smaller wingspan, but like not a lot different.
(Also pictured is my sky kid being carried by one of the ‘Adult’ mantas.)

[nimble ingot]

Note about names like Resh.
Those were concept art names found in concept art for Sky.

They are not meant to be canon, but fans can still use these names if they want to.
As long as people know what they mean.

[nimble ingot]

Mantas have been shown to have either had develop a symbiotic relationship with ancestors (which our skykids happen to resemble). Similar to that of a horse with humans, or in general where a creature trusts humans (or ancestors).

Mantas seem eager to carry skykids, either because they recognise them needing to reach some places like taking skykids up to the Day Temple to continue their journeys, or to the windpaths.

It is sad that the game does not necessary show manta interacting with smaller mantas as part of their behaviour. It would be sweet to see a bigger manta carrying a smaller one.

[dense zodiac]

Mhm

[hushed steeple]

For real they should have kept mountain isle if they didn't want it compared to journey.

First thing you saw when you start the game is those exact same little stones with ribbons tied into the holes in a desert.

Also sit in a circle to phase to elder place, collect all the elders and they help you in the end, the civilization used up creatures as energy and started a war over it, giant enemy cycloptic roamer with a search light, rebirth. Load of other things carried over. I love this game, but it became a trend for developers who had lost their IP's to sony to create a successor who was almost the same. (Happening with patapon too)

[nimble ingot]

I saw the old playthorugh and think the cliffs of Dawn looks so much more interesting.

Even with the reason being that they wanted a simpler area for players to learn the controls. A massive empty space is overkill.
Even with the intend of it being an empty space to convey mystery. One can have an entire castle ruin and still have the mystery and empty feeling.

I hope that the hilly Dawn area could be reused or used as part of a new area for Dawn.

I know TGC stated that Dawn is a realm that has went through a lot of changes. I struggle to see how the empty beach behind a big rock is better than the old cliffs of mystery of Light Awaits.
Especially when the older version gave a much bigger impression than the blank slate that is Dawn Beach.

[cobalt palm]

Lore side question for you all...
How many "npcs" are there in Sky?

The obvious ones are 126 spirits not including guides, 148 including guides, and 152 including shattering ancients

Then I realised that doesn't include the Days Of characters either.
Fortune has at least 1, bloom has around 2 or 3? now not including the Lightseekers, nature probably has about 2, Color has 2, Mischief has at least 7 now, Skyfest has at least 20 though we don't know everyone's name, style has 1, sunlight has 1, now moonlight has 1, feast has 2 or 3, and the office has 7.

So the number of "npcs" must be around 200 or so?

[spiral vault]

It's interesting that Isle is basically excluded from Light Awaits though, it's basically a tutorial with no spirits and no extra areas.

Maybe one reason it got removed was because of the biome diversity. Because Prairie, Valley, and Eden all have mountainous themes, so Isle being a desert would allow it to stand apart

[spiral vault]

I thought the days of npcs are the same people as the regular spirits, just in different clothing.

A big point against the game is the lack of stone variety. A lot of the beautiful areas come from their unique grass, sand, or lighting. But the stone texture is always the same grayish-blue.

[cobalt palm]

The days of nature one seems entirely unique, as are the developers in mischief and skyfest

[nimble ingot]

That is a lot of npcs, although that is pretty much the ancestor spirits.
Could also include the Shattering lights, spirit manta you meet in Abyss, the TGC staff, and presumably the elders.

But that would depend on what you would qualify as an NPC in sky.

• Is it the fact you can interact with them? (seeing there is hardly dialogue)
• Do they need to be humanoid?
• Should there be a quest or buff tied to them?

[cobalt palm]

Good point, I was being speciesist, not including the obvious krill, who we can count and have unique paths, manta, jellies, butterflies, and crabs

I'm thinking to simplify, anything with a "tree" or unique name mentioned ingame I. E. Not generic name such as Krill/Crab, that isn't another player, so that would probably include the nesting stores and revival / duets maniquins, but not the deer, and unfortunately not a majority of the SkyFest attendees as they don't get unique names we are told.

[nimble ingot]

From what I understood from looking into the chats and some interviews (including the latest video by Yui Tanabe), Dawn was changed to improve the passing of the game.

(sarcasm warning)
Perhaps the devs did not like how players spent so much time exploring the map back then. So I guess, they just cut all of that out and left an empty space for skykids to mess around in. But have a clear goal for them to waddle towards after building imaginary sandcastles and learning that one 'joystick' is to walk, and the other is jump/fly.

The idea of a tutorial is for players to know what their controls are, and to practice what move set their characters have. That and any obstacles the game may have.
Many of which in Sky show up after Dawn. Skykids hardly get to truly learn how to play as skykids in Dawn. Because Dawn has hardly 20% of the mechanics or content the game uses outside of it.

[nimble ingot]

Dont forget the elders who have trade trees in Orbit as well.

[cobalt palm]

How did I miss the elders, +7

Or +6 as the 2 valley elders are in one tree, and it gets confusing again

[nimble ingot]

There are only 6 elders (the twins count as one becuase they share their interactions as if they are one elder)

But this would discount the Little Prince. You only get to hold his hand and play with him. He does not have a trade tree (the rose does)

[cobalt palm]

Or +8 to include the king as they have a several murals, but no name

[nimble ingot]

And, there is the light kid in Eden.

Because the "tree" is just a hug function

[nimble ingot]

but no trade tree.
We dont even know if the King themselves are truly in the game, sadly.

[cobalt palm]

Oh yes, and do they count as part of the king?

Yeah the little prince, cinnamoroll, Kazuna AI, make things more complicated

[nimble ingot]

ehhhhhh....

That is a bit tricky to simply pin down.

Because it is a wild leap and it would count all the winged light in the realms. And then it would also snowball into if the wingedlight count as fragments, or individual entities. Not to mention bring into question their relation to the fallen children statues. etc. etc.

Some parts of the lore can be daisy chained together, and sometimes linking one to a new thread can cause others to become undone.

[cobalt palm]

Haha 152 and 1/119th

[nimble ingot]

I know this is old lore (from Light Awaits)
But I wanted to bring attention to this.
4 different boats.

The game today still has this pattern of 4.
And these 4 different boats are very interesting.

I wonder if this was an early concept that implied there were 4 different types of ancestors. As in 4 tribes or groups that became part of the Sky Kingdom.
These might have been from different realms in Sky (from other kingdomes the elders watched over). However, it might have been more likely that these are from ancestors that arrived in the realms of Sky as they were being established.

That said, I am here for seeing different races of ancestors in Sky.
It would not only diversity to the ancestors we meet in the game. But it would also add a potential environment of conflict.
There is already a classist based conflict in Sky from Valley's upper and lower class...

[supple sluice]

I don't really like to use old content to determine the lore in the new, but you are right there's a class divide in how the world of sky is played out. I wonder why one half has barely any technology and then the other half is chock-full of technology, big buildings, and the like?

I'm also still thinking about how the Eden king (eden elder) wasn't around when the sky realms started forming-which means the Eden king must have united them after they already existed... For what purpose? And why did they let him build that diamond??

[violet kestrel]

Do we think the portals are in a chronological sequence of events that happened in sky or just the progress of their society as they moved into new areas? We saw in the switch trailer that isle used to be a blossoming valley and now is a desert- I assume similar to the over cultivation IRL in the furtive crescent. I think it is a chronological sequence as they traveled.

Also have you noticed how the transitions between realms reflect the mood of the realms or general feeling of progress? In forest we fly up to the glittering cities along valley and at the end of valley we travel down into the depths of wasteland.

Do you think wasteland is the result of building the rich valley- and the pipes are drainage into wastelands of the lower classes and caused environmental damage which led to war?

Also have you noticed how in the citadel you gain light to fly as you simply float- presumably because the inner ring thing is a power source. Have you noticed a similar flight in birds nest in Prairie? I don’t think it charges in Prairie but it does have a floating effect when flying

[strange flare]

I was thinking since we have Praying Acolyte

I wonder what praying is in Sky? What does it means? What's in their mind during that activity? Is it supposed to be some kind of connection to The Light? Does it affect other creatures? Would it be like telepathy or meditation?

I do know that they do heal us / transfer light [?] when we did the same emote in Aviary Village.

And I do know we have Ceremonial Light Worshipper.

So much questions!

[long vessel]

I was JUST thinking about this (after praying with them in Aviary )

I did notice - and this could be nothing - that praying with them while holding hands with someone, they still only focused their light on one of us at a time.

I'm also just insanely curious what it means. Given the way some seem able to wield and manipulate light in the two embers trailers, it seems reminiscent of that, but it's also blue. Would it be yellow if the player has ascended them?? Or is this a whole different kind of thing? Maybe it's some kind of artificial light created by darkstone technology? Or maybe it's a representation of spiritual connection? It doesn't fill your candle like a hug from the Hopeful Steward does - does it recharge you at all? (I forgot to check.)

Idk, I'll be thinking about this all day probably lmao

[long vessel]

Okay, update, it does recharge your light. I stood far enough away that I wasn't being recharged by them just standing there and prayed with them, and once I prayed, my light started recharging. Quickly, too!

[violet kestrel]

I would guess it is similar to how we honk or hug and it transfers light. Maybe it’s just a focused general well-being type of prayer. Some cultures do not pray to entities but rather to regulate emotions and make them better to help the world- feels in line with the game

What are the carcasses in wasteland? They seem bigger than the whale carcasses (coelacanths) in forest- could they be the dark creatures from abyss?

[nimble ingot]

To comment on the praying acolyte and the ceremonial worshiper.

There is certainly hint at the ancestors worshiping or reaching out to some deity.
Whether it is the Light itself, the Flame, or possibly the elders. Some ancestors seem to be able to tap into this power to some extent.
For the acolyte along with other Vault spirits like Levitating Adept, Polite Scholar, Memory Whisperer or the Meditating Monastic; the ancestor spirits seem to value knowledge. And with that knowledge, they have learned how to use the darkstone power in different ways.
Namely in levitating objects themselves, which could be them using the crystal's power on the object, or that the object has to have a crystal embedded in it (ex. memory lanterns). They seem also capable in growing crystalline trees.

For the ceremonial worshiper, their style of dedication vastly differs from the vault spirits. Although they may reach a similar goal that is to be more connected with the power of light. The ancestors of Daylight Prairie are more 'down to earth' wherein they rely on manual labour to get things done. And yet still value the power of the light from the creatures.

Skykids are powered with light, so benefit from both ancestors powers they give in the form of light. Which is oddly one of the few things these otherwise opposing kingdoms of ancestors have in common.

One lives in indoors, the others are more rural. One values education in philosophy (dreams, light, memories, history), and the other values practical skills (building, storing, harvesting). One follows a monastic lifestyle, while the other is nearly nomadic given we hardly find permanent housing other than structures build as a utility to creatures or ceremonies.

Come to think of it, each kingdom of Sky specialises and values specific resources and lifestyles that make up their identities.
Each kingdom relied on another for trading of resources, but some values seem to clash with another.

If this was one of the causes to a war starting up, it would not be a surprise.
One group that values nature would certainly not stand of another group that seeks to destroy it to make room for their towers made of gold. And vice versa when one group values the history to gain wisdom, and have to fight with any group ignorant enough to repeat these mistakes and inevitably cause more harm than good.

Should one group seek to harvest light out of greed for power. Another group would surely stand against that in favour of preventing wiping out this precious resource.

[nimble ingot]

oh, the ones in the Graveyard area?

I recall in older conversations in this very channel where people concluded that they were "whurtle" (whale turtle) skulls. A hybrid creature we sadly do not have a living specimen to compare to.
Given their sheer size. Whatever caused 2 or 3 of them to perish in that small area must have been devastating!

One theory suggests that it could have come from a war, or from the wasteland temple itself.
This is because it is direct line of sight of the temple, and there were concept art that implied that the towers were once able to fire like laser turrets.
If not that, then the ominous barrel at the top of the temple could also hint at some ground-to-air weapon.
Regardless if it was out of self-defence or malice. It must have been horrible to see 3 giant light creatures to crash and perish.

Not to mention the few ancestors who potentially went down with them seeing how there are some ruins of fallen boats in the area as well.

[nimble ingot]

it was an old theory : here is what I found back then
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[inland cliff]

I kinda wish lore chat could be a forum chat for how long the threads of certain topics are

[violet kestrel]

It is so hard to see what all people have discussed about topics. I’m new to the lore chat and idk where to start besides that google doc

[nimble ingot]

For me, the search function helped.

But seeing this is the official public forum for Sky. The lore channel could use some tlc.

That. Or do what many older theorists have done.

• write a lore doc
• make videos talking about lore
• start chat groups
• join/create lore dedicated servers
• look for other furms like tumblr or reddit

None of the above options have guarantees sadly.
But these were the routes I have seen people take.

[inland cliff]

In one way, you can search some lore chat veterans/ active ppl in the chat to view some of their axium/theory

[inland cliff]

Well, it definitely takes great dedication to actually do any of those

[scenic pebble]

RAAAH
clas conflict
Karl Marx
even Sky isn't an escape from my fears of going to history class
anyways
guys, do you think the society in Sky ever thought of any ideologies or was it just a religious medival type place since they could relatievely easily communicate with their deity?

[strange flare]

I do think it was giant mantas because of the skull near memory whisperer seems identical

and it summoned a manta

though it does seem confusing to me because they have two eyeholes where mantas don't really have visible "eyes"

well for all we could know they could've had something else to see and feel the environment that doesn't have to be eyes

[spiral vault]

One could argue the game itself is a tutorial. As, it slowly introduces mechanics realm after realm.

Aviary teaches the central story and walking controls

Isle teaches spirits and winged light

Prairie teaches social mechanics

Forest teaches conserving your light under pressure

Valley teaches advanced movement

Wasteland teaches advanced movement under pressure

Vault and Eden bring everything together

[spiral vault]

I think it's the technology level increasing by realm, the latter option. The different realms are distinct regions of the world that interact with one another.

[spiral vault]

The first areas in Sky were definitely "hunter-gatherer." But even as early as Daylight Prairie, there is cooperation in building the structures such as the Prairie Temple. In general, the Daylight Prairie spirits seem cooperative and egalitarian.

I'm unsure about Hidden Forest, but there is definitely class conflict in Valley and Wasteland. Valley seems to have an "englightened despot" feel, while Wasteland is probably industrial capitalism related.

[nimble ingot]

I love that idea, though sadly find it conflicting...
Moreso in frustration at TGC than with your theory.

TGC has been known to expand and update many realms in Sky, except with Dawn.
Past explanations and claims (see season of Passage and Prophecy) explain that they did not want to change what is essentially the introduction to the game for new players.

But what makes this line of logic contradictive is as follows:

• Dawn has little to no content compared to many areas in the game, let alone an entire realm.
• Dawn is essentially a beach, with a big rock new players are bottlenecked through, then left to wander the sandy area until they inevitably called to the temple.
• It is one of the smallest realms in the game. Coupled with the history where it went through so many changes. It is surprising to know how much content was metaphorically boiled down to the state it is in today.
• Dawn has been exempted from many daily activities of the game (shards, daily quests, days of events, etc.). Supposedly because of the above reason to not spoil the 'first impression' of the realm.

What is confusing is giving the player this as their first impression where the many realms have expanded.
Why not add new areas like any other realm? Why not have the area procedurally become more detailed when the player has progressed in the game?

[nimble ingot]

Considering this year's addition of Aviary now becoming the new 'first impression' of the game. Why not give Dawn the attention it deserves as the realm that kickstarts the skykid's journey?
And even with the excuse that Aviary is just a hub and the player is told to enter the realms. The way Aviary drops moths into the season quest grinder via Revival to start the domino effect, then direct them to go to the portals and enter Dawn.

The older introduction was more forgiving where the original Home island is storm locked. It serves as a landing spot and foreshadowing of their future home (their original "nest" in my opinion) and it lets the player start their journey in Dawn much sooner.

[nimble ingot]

shattering crabs are rocks lol
(from the livestream riddle-athon)

snowbird in citadel lore

[cobalt palm]

Haha I knew these would end up here

[nimble ingot]

XD

[slim mango]

Welp, it's real that Waving Belmaker can clone themselves #screenshots-and-videos message

[timber current]

So does the Pointing Candlemaker

[nimble ingot]

As a side note. These should be reported as bugs. TGC should not have overlooked that.

Either way. It is hilarious XD

[tribal otter]

Leave them alone! They're just hangin out ;-;

[nimble ingot]

I wonder what Eden could have looked like before the storm.

• was it a misty peak with a city hiding in the fog?
• what would this kingdom have exported to other realms?
• Was Eden made for ancestors spirits, or was more of a temple made for just the elders?

It is possible that Vault was created for the elders in mind. Because the shelves are so high, and the stairs are so big. Even the table and chairs on the first floor clearly tower over the ancestors.

It is not like the ancestors had shrunk, or these furniture props were mistakenly enlarged.
It would have been fascinating to see more of these floors in their original state to see how the ancestors and the elders would have interacted.
Especially when considering that the top floor of Vault is the only area with grass growing.
This implies that the top floor could have been outside.
Either as a lower garden area for ancestors to pray at the elders.

But another theory could involve the ascension of Eden.

What if the top of the floating ruins of that area was in fact part of Vault. And instead of leaving Vault to be destroyed along with Eden. Pieces of it was saved in a memory/dream like state.
The ability to control reality like that is certainly interesting. And a power we occasionally see in action when it comes to ancestor spirits using magic to restore many areas in the game (ex. forgotten ark, the aviary village, valley of triumph coliseum, the bells of sanctuary, or even the treehouse area in assembly).

Once could say these were rebuilt by the skykids with the spirits guiding them. Or the spirits (who are spectral forms of the ancestors. Or simply put, ghosts) have done some rebuilding on their own (which is interesting how they could do that).

Or, it is the Elder's influence on the realms. Perhaps it is them enabling this power to the ancestors/skykids to bring back past structures (even in a partially restored state).

it is a bit of a stretch, but one I believe may hold some merrit when considering some subtle details.

When the Dawn elder's shrine is restored/relit. We see birds begin to show up more along our journey.
Although it is also possibly always the case given we are meant to visit the temple first and would normally not be able to see the other areas prior to that.

But another is how the light revives old mechanisms that laid dormant for many years. Many of which were built by the ancestors back when they were alive, and under the rulership of the elders that granted them this knowledge (in theory).

What is more notable is how the masks on the Eden gate are lit once we visit the realms. This is highlighted when the cutscene of them lighting up was added.
The elders seem to have some form of presence in the realms despite not having a physical body.
And before anyone mentions the elders in Orbit. That is the only place we can see them in person aside from their respective cut scenes with meditation in their temples. We do not see them physically present in the realms like the spirits.

[dense zodiac]

I just watched a friend go through the entirety of Eden (I still haven’t gone yet personally) and I saw some wall paintings in a rest area, of the huge Eden crystal, where it appears to be drawing energy from the stars, as the Eden elder is worshipped by many citizens. I think maybe in his hubris the Eden king (I feel like he’d dub himself a king, or emperor, or something, rather than elder,) I think he may have over-estimated how much power his crystal could hold. I think when he pushed too far and drew too much energy is when the crystal became red. (It looks like one of the same blue crystals used in the doors and platforms of hidden forest.)
I think he may have been promising too much to the people of this world, overstepped what was possible with what he had, and it led to the deaths of thousands.
Also I feel like potentially, the krill we see in game are either A. The embodiment of hopelessness, borne of the pollution or B. Corrupted creatures of light.
I think maybe when Eden’s crystal was corrupted, maybe it let off a huge shockwave, like when we do a large honk, but it bathed a large portion of the world in darkness. I think potentially it affected gw the most, because vault would be protected by its walls, and valley would be far enough away to be semi-ok. Idk I’m rambling a bit here, but I think this huge shockwave might have either A. Charged the pollution of Gw and created the krill or B. Led the krill as light creatures to become dark. (Dark energy emanating from the crystal energy capacity failure.)

I hope some of this rambling makes sense

[spiral vault]

I think so, perhaps the mural is based on the creation of the Eden crystal

[dense zodiac]

Oh yeah true

[long vessel]

I went a little crazy looking for the photos I needed for this, so here goes lol

I'll start with the basics that lots of people here probably know: Wasteland, specifically the Temple, is directly at the base of the mountain. Tomte, I believe, actually made a cool illustration on Tumblr that shows how it's likely set up. But you can also see in the photo of the mountain shining lights everywhere, at the very bottom, the GW Temple.

The Temple obviously leads into Vault, which is literally right down the hall out the back. So... inside the mountain. It's like an elevator to the top, essentially. We know Vault stores memories, etc. It also seemed to be a place of learning. Other than serving as a refuge after Shattering, it doesn't seem that people lived there.

We also know the top of the mountain wasn't the whole city, as there was a whole portion that floated above the peak.

So to make some speculations - if Vault was bustling with life, where did all those people live? My thoughts are that many of them lived in the city on the mountain peak. And I think Resh, specifically, lived in the floating city/castle above.

But to talk about things we know, we also know that the city was a beautified plumbing system. In Eden, we see destroyed structures, fallen beams - but a lot of what we see is broken piping. And we know from TTE that those transported light (also potentially light waste - whatever has turned into the oil-like sludge found throughout GW).

Also, to further lay out the city itself, I feel like looking at Eden and the path to Orbit helps a lot.

What's interesting is that we know the city is essentially two pieces: the mountain peak and the floating city above it. But with Eden, it's broken into three. Eden (the peak), the gates immediately after, and the broken castle in the sky. To me, it looks like when the crystal shattered, the middle of the floating city was blown further into the atmosphere. There's also the interesting motif of how the broken castle highest up looks like the shattering crystal (couldn't get the top and bottom in a single pic, but it's a broken diamond shape), which further insinuates (to me, at least) that the King likely resided there

[strange flare]

this is a bit of an over thinking but uh

1 hour of our time is 1 day in Sky. Which means our pilgrimage to Eden is once every 168 days. Which sounds a lot better to our sky kid rather than every 7 days.

I do like to think our sky kids would play and have fun while we are offline. Taking breaks and all dat :D

[violet kestrel]

Where is the little crab? In wasteland shop?

[rain frost]

Not entirely related but your last pic there from TTE gave me some thoughts. Idk if we know where the child and their manatee are in that scene (like, which realm) but it's interesting that mural includes krill - could it be a warning to anyone headed to Eden? Which might also be why the Ember has found it, they might be traveling to the capitol

[nimble ingot]

Somewhere in the magic shop at Aviary that the Enchantment guide runs.

[long vessel]

Right?! I wanted to investigate where that might be - to me it looked like somewhere in Prairie based on the grass (duh) and also the simple squares and lines painted on the walls, but I want to try to be sure.

But it's interesting, too, that even the fire trial mural has one. It's facing away and in the distance, meanwhile the other has more that are all coming together at the mountain, which shows a different level of danger imo.

But that also got me thinking about the storyline/progression of the show - if Dusk started out in Wasteland, how do they end up all the way back at DP?

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, Wasteland also used to have grassy areas. I suppose it could be in an area of Wasteland not overtaken by desert yet

Double edit: Now that I'm re-watching in literally .25 speed, I think it may be in Wasteland. The entrance was a broken pipe. And also, in the art for this scene in the teaser, that room is featured right next to the old version of the building we see in GW right before the Temple, in the Battlefield. Could be coincidence, though.

ALSO also, there were tablets in that scene propped up on a shelf and they had illustrations of mantas on them and I want to see them better so bad

[long vessel]

In this scene, this is the bottom floor of the Vault, right?

...so why is the platform rising to the floor? It seems Vault may have had a basement 👀

[long vessel]

Here's a look at those tablets I mentioned

[rain frost]

arent the archives kind of a basement? ik we dont see platform access there but it could be a section of the archives we just cant see in game

[rain frost]

reminds me of the abyss murals

[nimble ingot]

A basement is an underground room beneath a structure.

The Archives are part of the Vault.
And a Vault is like a bunker beneath a fortress.

With the memories of past ancestors to memorialise them, it could also be a catacomb...

Just sharing this train of thought.

[spiral vault]

I think Eden was perhaps spiritually important, but not economically important. It might have been just like an administrative capital

[long vessel]

To be fair, Eden (the city/kingdom) would require trade of darkstone, gold, stone bricks, paint, whatever is used to make pipes (metal of some sort?), and all the laborers had to be paid, clothed and fed, and whole statues were erected throughout Wasteland in the king's honor. To me, it seems like it would be pretty economically important, right alongside Valley - which was also likely built so lavishly in honor of their allegiance to the king (and to aid in the pursuit of propagandizing for the king/kingdom)

[nimble ingot]

I like that way of thinking.

More so if this could have been what TGC could do in their story development.

A once sacred temple that was desecrated by the King (which could spark up conflict that eventually started the war). And a reasoning to the Summit being raised off the ground.
Because by doing so. The King would have cut off the ancestor's connection to the Sky. Both Literally and figuratively.
And by lifting it up. It implies isolation and greed. Both traits that stand in opposition of what light is meant to be.

Light is meant to be shared and connect people. It is never meant to divide and isolate.
Which could also tie into the colours. Red is a colour of warmth, and fire. But instead of a welcoming and divine presence. It burns and signals danger.
A corrupt form of Light that stands against the pure Light, but also pure Darkness.

Perhaps it is not Darkness that is the enemy. It is the corruption that tainted it. Just like the Light that became corrupted.

Mind you, this is not part of my usual line of theories. But an interesting branch in the lore I think warrants further exploration.

[narrow marsh]

Another great place to start is with Amity206's summary of sky lore on the skyfanon wiki!
https://sky-children-of-the-light.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amity206/Sky_Lore_Theories

[violet kestrel]

Are there any theories on where dark stone originated from? Is it a natural force that had existed in the world or was it introduced through things like the shard eruptions? Those fling dark stone and I wonder if the dark stone existed before hand and it is the main stone in Eden shattering or if the shattering stone is the original and spits out the dark stone

[celest birch]

Darkstone existed WAAAAY before the Diamond of Eden.

The ♦️ is the mere MONUMENTAL darkstone creation of the Kingdom´s people. Honestly, if you ask me, darkstone is the natural force that exists for as long as the world of Sky does and one can see how does it naturally look like in Prairie Peaks.

[narrow marsh]

Darkstone appears to be a natural resource that existed in the world. There used to be a lot of it in caves and such, but the AURORA concert confirms that it was all mined out, and Season of Moments shows us that it now only exists in places largely untouched by Ancestors.
We can see that it reacts to Light when Light gets close to it.

The diamond objects you're thinking of is called refined darkstone in the concept arts. According to the concept arts, darkstone would be "refined" in the factories we see in forest and wasteland. This refinement process appears to be a multi-step plan of compacting the darkstone material into a diamond shape, and exposing creatures of light to the new diamond. ||(Gonna leave that vague on purpose)|| The resulting object is "refined darkstone" or a 'power diamond', which seems to possess some similar powers to Light's natural abilities. 👀🕯️

[crisp socket]

Look again: this could also be the very top floor of the vault, along the path that finally leads into Eden, after the Elder cutscene. Though, I don’t have any context for this (don’t know if it actually is the final floor), but that’s my best guess.

[nimble ingot]

Darkstone is a mineral from the ground. It is a crystal that responds to light.

I suspect it is also the reason why we have floating islands.
How come I think so is based on its ability to float and suspend entire buildings in the air. The Eye of Eden itself could be the reason why the Eden castle is floating as well.
The ancestors mine them out. And I theorise based on the above observations that it may have caused some natural floating islands to fall once they have lost enough darkstone to help it float.

If this is the case, then it might also apply to the Treasure Reef area. Where the island is partially submerged possibly due to its darkstone being mined out.

[long dragon]

Do the horned masks show rank based on how big the horns get?
One of my moths brought it up just now.

[nimble ingot]

horned masks? which ones?

oh! the wasteland ones!?

[long dragon]

Lookout scout, bowing medalist and backflipping champion

[long dragon]

yes!
She wanted to know if the horns are bigger based on rank or something.

[nimble ingot]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

I would gladly like to direct you to this older image. This was from Salem.
They used to be active on this channel and made strides with theories about the timeline of Sky.

This was one of their images that shows this same observation and how they also wonder if it may be related to rank.

I would also want to add a small note based on days of competition with their use of bronze, silver and gold. I wonder if the colours of the metals (silver and gold) would also apply to these ranks.

[long dragon]

thank you!!

[violet kestrel]

So it appears a dark stone is used in this carving- is it just the shape because it brought them power so they want to show it or is it an actual dark stone? And if it is why does it seem to only be decorative?

What do you guys make of the carvings on the ark? Does this first image show miners or people holding umbrellas? And it appears they convert the star energy into something. They have those on the boat which I assume represents the ark. Do you think it is a collection of all the tribes or just symbols for the magic they discovered?

[noble ferry]

I think the umbrella people are the lightseeker season people (one of them wears a similar hat and another had an umbrella plus their ult is an umbrella)
The symbols appear to be symbols for the different types of colored light

[long vessel]

I didn't get to play during Enchantment so this is one of those areas I have to stop and wonder about every time I pass through lol. I feel like we're getting SO MUCH information, and yet so little.

The second to last pic is so interesting to me, though. It seems that they captured neutral(?) light and then turned it into (or it otherwise somehow transformed into) each specific type of light. And in the last picture, we can see there are duplicates of these lights too (the main six on the ark and extras in smaller boats behind it).

Idk, but to me it seems like these elements could be key components of how all the darkstone tech around us may have been made. Like purple, for instance, could have been used for all matter of levitation. Maybe green and blue were used to grow plants. It almost feels like Little Alchemy, how you might be able to mix different elemental lights and potentially get different results. Like, maybe it's purple + cyan for flying ships, etc.

What's also so interesting is the entire concept of there being a "darkness" light. This has to mean that either dark light exists and can occur naturally, or they potentially had reason to create it. And if these are created, how?

And if these elements were used for their elemental association - WHAT was darkness used for??

[spiral vault]

In the cutscene, the darkness light was used to re-apply the murals. So maybe it could be used to "cover up" the murals, or perhaps the entire boat as well

[long vessel]

Right, I was just reading the wiki and trying to apply that same logic, since all the other ones kinda make sense.

I get the impression that these were essentially specialized tools made from light to make up for the effects they were seeing from lack of light. Like, we know from TTE that regular/neutral light causes plants to grow, so green light is more like a man-made fertilizer. Green light could potentially be made by harvesting the light already stored in live plant matter, or by mixing neutral light with plant matter.

Other examples that make sense to me:

• Blue was used to purify the water, so they used this to keep polluted water at bay, but light harvesting in general continued to pollute.
• Cyan was used to create holes in the clouds, so they created cyan to keep clouds from overtaking the sky like they have now. But again, the light depletion process also contributes to the clouds continuing to close in.

But the few I'm trying to piece together are:

• Orange light was used to bring light and life back to the area. Is orange light the same as neutral/regular light? And if so, this makes sense because in the Switch launch promo, we do see someone wielding seemingly normal light, presumably to scare off the dark crabs lurking all around and bring light (including butterflies, like the orange light in Enchantment) to the forest as they're passing through
• Purple light. This one just gives the vibe of "magic." But the things it does are really interesting. It brings back all the tapestries, tents, and lamps. It also changes the time to night. And the quote from that one is "it is said they hoard ancient secrets." It's just vague enough that I can't quite pin it down.
• And then red light. This one is just an enigma to me. You're totally right it restores the murals. But it's also the only one we see in two areas, right?? We also see it in the crab fields with the other shipwreck. Does removing it from there do anything other than complete the quest?

[nimble ingot]

Season of Enchantment lights and quests:

• Red light is found in Wasteland, "...where darkness prevails." The light is released by Nodding Muralist, who uses it to reveal the murals on the Ark.

• Blue light is according to the quote, rumoured to be found in, "...the pure waters of a mountain lake". It can be found in the ice rink of Valley. Indifferent Alchemist uses it to purify the sky and the water in the area.

• Cyan light, "lingers among the early gusts of wind." Which can be found in the clouds between the end of Dawn and just before the start of Day. The Crab Walker uses it to create channels in the clouds for sunlight to light up the area, and also raise the oars of the Ark catching the wind.

• Green light are said to be, "... gifts to the earth from the sky." Where it can be found in the bird nest area in Day. Scarecrow farmer uses it to let plants grow in the area.

• Purple light is said to be where the ancestors, "hoard ancient secrets," which is the archives of Vault. Snoozing Carpenter uses it to decorate the Ark with tents and flags. Also (something I missed) the time changes in the area. Day turns to night as the moon and sky changes.

• Orange light offers, "warmth in times of cold." and is found in the forest (boneyard). Play Fight spirit uses it to signal other spirits to gather by the guide and skykid to ascend. It also lights up the lamps and braziers in the area, a final change and the end of the season.

[source: Sky via Wiki]
https://sky-children-of-the-light.fandom.com/wiki/Season_of_Enchantment

The season introduced a ton of lore for us to speculate over. I dearly miss those old days.

The season is also tied to the season of Prophecy, which introduced the idea of elemental energy to these coloured lights.
Season of Lightseekers are also indirectly connected because of their golden light that is found in every realm except Dawn and Eden.

[violet kestrel]

I was just going to say this! Yes! It also relates to individual spirits which makes me wonder if each spirit is from a different part of the map- like the spirit “longs for the red light” maybe it makes them nostalgic for their home and the essence of their home. And the ark could be something that was set off to save a sample of civilization- similar to Noah’s ark

You can also see in the mural that it appears the people of the forest are the first to discover this light- and then they share it with others (magicians, sages?) and they “create” their own version of magic. We see the first one on the mural is the red light and 2 people are holding it- maybe suggesting something tempting about it. It is found in dark places so maybe it relates to dark stones and shared similar properties.

[nimble ingot]

I believe what the lights were used for had to do with the ancestors. Each one had a problem and the skykid helped them find a solution.

• Muralist wanted to paint muralist to document their journey. (possibly to teach skykids about their culture or simply tell their story of what happened).
• Alchemist wanted to purify the waters, but did not have enough magic/power to do so.
• Crab walker wanted to keep the crabs at bay and the wind raising the sails presumably helped with this endeavor as well (truthfully this is a bit vague and more of a hypothesis based on their memory)
• Scarecrow wanted to plant crops, but the water was impure and birds kept eating up the seeds.
• Carpenter wanted to decorate the area, but lacked the energy. And possibly also knowledge of the type of magical items for the shops that show up at the end of the season based on the nature of the purple light.
• Play Fight wanted the spirits to work together.

[nimble ingot]

yes.

And another part of the murals shows the Ark flying and carrying the lights. But then the storm and krill stuck it down.

[violet kestrel]

I just thought of this but don’t you think it is interesting that the guide for prophecies has the head of Anubis- the Egyptian god of the dead? Do the prophecies declare something for the afterlife or does it reflect an impending doomsday or death for the civilization?

It also looks like the light seekers pendant is hands reaching for a light. It makes sense if they were the ones to find the light first because they need the warmth and protection that light grants them

[nimble ingot]

Not to mention that these trials are deadly and proved you had the wisdom of Patience, Resilient, Balance and Bravery.

And according to wiki trivia. The prophets' animal masks also tie into these trials.

Namely the sea turtle takes deep breaths and for people it helps them keep calm (slow down, be patient and focus).
The spider is known to be a climber and resilient. Dusting off could indicate bouncing back from a fall.
The prophet does handstands which require balance. Being upside down also visually reflects how bats hang from the ceiling.
Lastly, the lion symbolises pride and bravery. This connection is the easiest to recognise.

https://sky-children-of-the-light.fandom.com/wiki/Season_of_Prophecy#Prophet_of_Air

[shy elk]

I wish to be a flight guide

[inland cliff]

I have theories that they definitely have seen some future events incoming, and the trial test was a part of it in a way? It's very vague but they follow the same "Armageddon incoming" typa prophet. Although I think the Anubis mask is style-based more than actual intend since it's not likely that they wanted to implement irl gods/religion to Sky

[nimble ingot]

if you were looking to have the role on the server, you need to send the message to the bot in dms.

!team_mischief : To see the list of options.

And then type "I wish to become a ... " with whatever you want.

[long vessel]

Adding these so we'll have them in our media history, since the spirits are leaving

[spiral vault]

I don't think the lights are "artificial". They seem to have some relation to the Prophecy elements, at least. We can connect some of the enchantment lights to the prophecy lights:

Teal is air
Blue is water
orange is fire
Green is earth

[long vessel]

I don't think I said they were artificial? I just think there's a chance they were somehow combining regular light/motes/the free-floating stuff above candles and all in the air with different elements to create very real light associated with each element, potentially to be used in different circumstances (like how green is used for growing crops, how blue clarifies water, etc).

The other option I see is that they potentially just harvested the light in the environment they naturally occur - but I just don't know if that light occurs on its own in nature, or if all light in nature is pure light, without the color or elemental difference between them.

[nimble ingot]

teal is technically cyan. But correct on all accounts.

[narrow marsh]

It'll be interesting to see how Two Embers implements the usage of "elemental light".

As for when we discuss the formation of colored lights, though we would generally agree that they are not 'artificial'... I'd beg to differ that some of these colored lights seem to form out of exposure to environments within the Ancestor kingdom. At least according to the descriptions given to purple and red.
"Where darkness prevails"
"Where ancient secrets are hoarded"

These are not even remotely descriptions of the natural world of The Light and its ecosystems. Let's recall the theme that Connection could be directly linked to a Being of Light's vitality. Perhaps being in the Ancestor's Indifferent world, full of politics and conflict and hatred and fear, effectively suffocates the Light, tilting and tempering it with just a liiittle bit of darkness; just a little bit of Indifference.

Besides purple and red, however, there's plenty of room to believe the others are natural. That they'd all not be dangerous, however? That's a different conversation entirely... 🕯️

[jovial nebula]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rC0XiH5ZIDU
have we all seen this already?

[long vessel]

My message has been eaten twice now lol. I was saying I think you're right about some being naturally occurring. I just finished turtle and was thinking about the jokes people make about collecting turtle toots, and I realized the lights really do seem to be cyan like air. I always thought the reason the light in/around water was that shade was because it was "water light" for lack of a better term, but maybe it's because it really is air. And maybe the turtle really is gassy

Same with geyser though, the urchins that burn near water turn really light blue/cyan. I can't quite tell if this is all intentional, but to me it seems possible those would turn that color because heat + water = steam/gas (like clouds)

[long vessel]

Sorry, that message was in response to your last message, I forgot to hit reply when I re-typed it

[topaz summit]

So guys I saw the trailer thingy... I assume this is Stewie

[nimble ingot]

It is a popular theory.

They are known in the trailer as the wasteland ember.

But they resemble the revival guide (hopeful steward) because of their hair.

[tawny falcon]

WHERE IS THIS

[nimble ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeOzyoz6vj8

[nimble ingot]

Me still wonder why TGC posted the other two trailers/teasers but not this latest one.

We were able to see this from people uploading the trailer, and more over that the Chinese players (playing a regionalised version hosted by Netease) were able to see it weeks before we were 'officially' allowed to.
(Those few days were pretty salty when folks were able to find out, but not allowed to post about them until the TGC made it official to the community.)
This link is just to an older message to emphasize the above point : #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[narrow marsh]

Ur genius knows no bounds

[narrow marsh]

Wasteland? You mean "dusk" right?
I thought i recalled them being called the "Dawn ember" and the "dusk ember"

They were indeed super weird about the recent trailers, and continue to be weird about it, as they continue to strike anyone who uploads it on YouTube or bilibili. Very lame of them as usual.

[nimble ingot]

Ah I see. my bad.

The official name is Dusk Ember.

That is on me.

[long vessel]

I'm literally STILL thinking about it lmao

What if it goes something like this?
Reg light + steam/gas = cyan
Reg light + extreme heat = orange
Reg light + extreme cold = blue
Reg light + plant matter = green
Reg light + magic? focused meditation?? something? = purple
Reg light (or potentially any light) + darkness = red

And that made me think of the purple connection tying us to mantas - I assumed it was just a visual representation of you being attached, but it doesn't seem too unlikely with how we see purple used that maybe it's a representation of a focused connection or something of that nature (maybe magical, maybe spiritual, I'm not sure)

[narrow marsh]

Lol you don't have to carry the weight of lorechat on your shoulders but I promise you that you have and will always do a wonderful job ❤️🕯️

[narrow marsh]

So there was an actual science nerd who came in here once and asked for a full explanation of how my Light microbiology concept works, and while mumbling aloud (on text in our dms) they changed some things they thought were still flawed about it and then said "okay, I've gotten what I needed for my personal headcanon, seeya"

And then they never appeared here or in my dms ever again
I have so many questions and I needed their help
We really need more actual science whizzes in the lore community for sure.

Tangent aside, the idea they proposed was that Light is not a living solid tangible cell as I stated it, but that each Light 'particle' would be a non-tangible almost hole; a tear in reality. An anomalous presence taking up room wherever it is. This presence would give off heat, but also need heat in order to function. This law would present a concept where Light particles would essentially power each other for all eternity when in close proximity to each other.

If Light is found within things like fire (in all instances within Sky's world!) then it could possibly explain why fires in Sky are 'fueled' perpetually: the different particles within the Light substance making up the flame are charging each other at all times!

What this means is that Light substance, full of Light particles, has the natural propensity to give off a powerful radiance yet contained within that Body of Light. This visible emission of energy shows itself as something we visually recognize as Fire.

[narrow marsh]

In aerospace, electric arcs are fired across tungsten electrodes to fuse metals together, but the machinists who monitor these electric arcs are watching the process to ensure that the arc stays a hot blueish-white. If it even slightly changes color, this means a foreign contaminant has been introduced to the arc, and the color can change to anything from green to yellow to purple.

I'd like to think of colored Light in a similar manner to this.
If Ligh substance is a powerful deposit of pure immaculate energy, then it demands it's own staging in order to just retain it's pure, beautiful Fire. Anything being introduced to the proximity of the substance would effectively be a 'contaminant': leaving the Light just a little less "pure", and mixed/joined with just the smallest percentile of whatever that contaminant is. I hope the contamination concept helps our progress.

As for the purple light.
Light substance is a lot more complicated than something tangible even to sci-fi themes of an anomalous "force" as that person in my story above had wanted to present it. Light substance is 'sentient' and 'psychic'; and can 'feel' the intensity of all other Light substance up there in the Sea of Light that we know remains forever in the Sky. Disruption or Overload of that Connection with the Megabird array could possibly also change the Light's anatomical characteristics. 🕯️

Okay I'm done good night

[violet kestrel]

Have we stopped to consider that perhaps the different lights are not created by certain aspects of the world but rather are fragments of light essence itself- like light passing through a prism and creating a rainbow. There are a lot of places to go from this theory- it is interesting how each portal seems to have a certain color of light associated with it. I would argue that the fragmented societies representing different colors is a reflection of the refraction of light.

I feel like this is proved by the idea that the children of the light are the pure and untainted future of the world- meant to bring everything together.

I think this idea could be furthered that since light in itself is magical in sky- able to do incredible things- maybe the refraction of the light caused different parts of the gifts to land in different places. This would cause strife among the civilizations as they fight for resources and it would explain why they don't fly. Perhaps the children's ability to fly is only thanks to light at full power

I know people think this is the prince (i think that's what he is called) but notice how the glowing figure in the middle looks a lot like the children of light or winged light and in a way he appears to be all of the lights combined. this is from the cave of prophecies

There is also this mural. I'm not sure if this would be a stretch or not- im new to sky lore

Adding onto my theory- maybe winged light is portions of this pure light that has not "passed through a prism" making sky kids able to fly and showing a portion of light at full power

[long vessel]

Interestingly, this was kind of the basis for what I was thinking to begin with, but I love how you've fleshed it out. Under this framework, though, it seemed like we'd be more likely to get blue light in water since that's its association.

I do think color analysis is really important in the lore in general; for instance, white light is the purist light (as it's a combination of all light together, and potentially a representation of when light is most powerful) - and the only time (that I can think of) that we see pure white light is when ascending into Orbit. I think that has significance.

But with the Enchantment lights, it felt a little incomplete. For one, I found it interesting how in the mural we see them collecting what look like "regular lights" and once stored, it seems to become its elemental-affiliated light. That's what made me speculate about whether they were entirely man-made or naturally-occurring. I do think, now, that these can be produced naturally. But not in the density we see with the Enchantment lights, most likely. Like, urchins produce both cyan and orange light, but in limited amounts.

But back to the main point (sorry, it's past midnight in my timezone )

Using the color affiliation + the element the color is associated with + the realm/biome it was found in helped in forming my thought process.

Like, regular light may naturally turn cyan in freezing conditions, but it's also potentially produced in amounts so small it would be hard to collect. Even in those small amounts, it probably has positive effects on the water quality of the region - but may need to be created in larger amounts to be used for things like purifying water in areas that don't naturally produce that type of light.

[violet kestrel]

This mural is from vault and shows a king/prince holding an orb or power of some sort. Maybe the king sought to share this power and created the diamond to separate the powers equally amongst the lands. Perhaps corruption then entered the diamond (or was maybe always part of it) and caused the shattering. Do we think the colored lights existed before the shattering?

[long vessel]

I do think they were around before shattering. The Enchantment ones, specifically, I'm not sure on. It depends on where that story falls in the timeline. But in nature, yeah, I think so. And I think they potentially learned how to use it before Shattering, since it seems it was being shipped in fairly large batches (based on the mural)

[narrow marsh]

It's definitely a powerful thematic that we can't forget about! The concept that Light is just refracted in different ways is a beautiful idea.
I have already pondered many concepts about Light undertaking different "Frequencies" when taking form within the world.

However, we must first concretely decide on what that pure "full" white Light is, and where it originates from. Like Sam said; when applying color affiliation the main area we see "pure white light" is predominantly in our Ascent into the Megabird.
(While when discussing the Descendants/skykids, color affiliation points to an orange/yellow glow.)
This reflects swimmingly with concept art.

All Light comes from the Megabird; from the Sea in the Sky. The moment that it changes color, whether we choose "contamination" or "refraction" as our culprit for this change: that change happens within the world. From there, I'd like to argue that that makes it sound that it would indeed be because of the world that the Light either contaminates or refracts.

While I'd love for Light to do these things just because it can, the evidence seems to point elsewhere. From here, my question is: what exactly makes the Light refract/contaminated?

[violet kestrel]

You and @long vessel make some great points!! I love hearing the feedback to try to see what the story is. I would agree that the white light is pure in the Megabird- but what about the mural in the office that the megabird is yellow/orange? Is there a possibility that the color could be percieved by refreacted/contaminated minds and it isnt until we reach orbit that we become enlightented.

This might also explain the importance of the embers/children in the stories because maybe they haven't had time to be corrupted.

[narrow marsh]

Hmmmm
Let me see if I can get the original version of that mural, because that isn't the original. That mural is an exact rip of concept art from during the game's development, and it vaguely depicts the Chosen One beholding the Megabird. I'll be back to see what I find. ❤️🕯️

[violet kestrel]

I found this but I can't find a high-resolution one. But based on this is says the color denotes the intensity of power

[long vessel]

In the concept art somewhere, it does say something about orange being one of the most important colors (I don't remember the exact quote) but essentially it's spiritually significant because it represents the flame/fire that connects us all.

I tend to think the murals are done in this color for spiritually significant reasons

[narrow marsh]

The description I made here was for the mural in the office lake, but the original art piece done by Tom Zhao was actually a bit different! Take a look 👀🕯️

[long vessel]

That is GORGEOUS holy moly

Do we think that's a person in the middle with a fancy headpiece?

[violet kestrel]

What is so interesting about all of this is that as @long vessel stated the warmth represents connection to one another. We can really see this in the season of belonging- the ultimate gift is a campfire to connect with others and recharge light. Is it possible both the light refracting and the warmth concepts exist together?

[violet kestrel]

Here is the one in the office including the person

[narrow marsh]

Regardless, we can see that it was yellow/gold because the 'mural' was made of the Light, as most murals we see canonically in game are. I'm afraid it's not evidence towards the Megabird having a gold color affiliation. A more reasonable argument for the Megabird having a gold color affiliation would be its constellation that we are shown at the end of the credits.
(Screenshot taken from my blog because I'm lazy)

However, I'm afraid that I personally don't agree that this accurately represents the Megabird post-launch either. The Light that we fly into at the end of the game is the only evidence we actually need.

[violet kestrel]

One idea for the contamination idea is that different elements mixed with flame will produce different colors.
Copper: Produces a blue-green flame
Strontium: Creates a red flame
Barium: Produces a green flame
Sodium: Results in a yellow flame
Lithium: Creates a crimson or red flame
Potassium: Produces a violet flame

It is called the season of enchantment where they introduce the colors- perhaps there are different things in sky that produce these colors and have different effects such as jewels or creatures

[narrow marsh]

I have no reason to see why not! I think we should consider all likely possibilities and themes; it's all important ❤️🕯️

[long vessel]

Exactly what Tomte said

I'll catch up in the morning, goodnight guys, it's been fun

[violet kestrel]

I am also heading to bed- I have stayed up late because this is so interesting!!! I love hearing everyone's ideas. 💕 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

Real talk but portraying the Enchantment crew less as sorcerers and moreso as alchemists is so enticing to me. I think alchemy could theoretically be a strong allusion in the worldly aspects of Sky and its Ancestors. Especially since Sky's culture takes heavy direction from various asian cultures. (Alchemy is an iconic storytelling medium in Chinese mythology.)

[long vessel]

100% - I like to think of the spell shop as evidence of this. The counter shows I think flowers and a mortar and pestle (or something like that)

Okay, NOW I'm done. I can't help myself

[narrow marsh]

LOL we're all still here go to sleep 😭🕯️
(After you finish your thought of course Elliot)

[violet kestrel]

I just thought of this but the new video is called the 2 embers- could that suggest that they originated from flame? Then there are the children of the light and we see in the last video the stars falling from the sky and then we see isle of dawn as it is today. We also know that we look like falling stars when returning to the world after Eden. I think it is possible that both the flame and the light fracturing are in the world but may suggest the ancestors and sky kids are kind of different species

[violet kestrel]

Haha yeah it’s almost 2am here- we just can’t help ourselves. The conversation is TOO good!

Ok goodnight for real 😂😅

[violet kestrel]

Building off of the idea that stones/animals could be used to get these properties feels likely because we know that dark stone exists and seems to have the opposite properties of light. This suggests other stones do have the properties of light

[nimble ingot]

Makes me think about the crabs=rocks idea.
I wonder if there could be a tinkering altrificer who craved stone creatures and they are brought to life with elemental energy (or darkstone).
Almost like Sky automatons, animatronics or even just golems.

[long vessel]

“The stars were once united and our light was infinite.
The first of us descended to build a Kingdom in the clouds.
But we took our light for granted... and in shadow, we withered away.
A long time has passed. Now, you bring us hope.
Go forth child. Return your light to our fallen stars.”
-Aviary Village Mural

“All are given breath by starlight. The first of us lived in joy that we would one day return to the stars.
Together, we built a Kingdom in the clouds. We connected the seven realms with the power of starlight.
But then the Sky went dark, and our Kingdom shattered.
Many of us are still trapped in these realms. Please, Child... Bring your light to our fallen spirits.”
-Isle of Dawn Mural

Based on these narrations, I believe we are made of essentially stars.

Upon reading more about stars and falling stars (meteors), I think our insides are made of plasma. I think Megabird represents a galaxy filled with stars and meteors (just like we see when ascending to Orbit), and that “birth” looks like the various star deaths, which put off dust, gasses, and even metals, which all come together to form the basis of our bodies. Then we fall from the sky, like a shooting star, sending light and plasma and other shedded materials in all directions. Maybe this material becomes the basis for light creatures. Or maybe they have a similar but slightly different formation process.

Interestingly, if you look at the examples of types of meteors there are, the colors match our bodies pretty closely. And the brown/tan meteors are significantly more common than the dark grey/black ones. That is seemingly pretty consistent with skykid skin tones.

There’s also the possibility that we fall from the sky as pure plasma (which, I guess would be more reminiscent of lightning), and if that’s the case, it may be that whatever surface we collide with hardens around us and becomes our bodies.

How our bodies take shape is probably the most interesting and elusive part of this. It’s not like we’re meteor-shaped, nor are light creatures. Similarly mysterious is how exactly skykids, ancestors, and elders are different.

We know they are different because skykids have flight and ancestors do not. The only person we see fly (and actually even hover, which is a thing we can’t even do well) is the King, and only as an adult. I’m also not sure if ancestors have the “third eye” kind of thing going on that skykids do; every single one I have found whose mask includes what appears as a “third eye” when worn by skykids, you either can’t see it clearly on the ancestor spirit or it doesn’t match their eyes (doesn’t give off the same light or have the same color).

On one other interesting note, when you look at examples of different ways plasma can present, its colors are also incredibly similar to what we see in Sky

[violet kestrel]

I was just thinking about this but I’ve noticed that the friendship candles have a rainbow around them. I want to say I saw something the devs presented representing rainbows and prisms but I have no idea how to find it since I think it was a presentation for sky fest

[narrow marsh]

Plasma is actually super perfect for understanding more and more just what Light substance may be.
'Scientifically', I'd say Light substance almost certainly has plasma in it, if it isn't made of plasma itself. Some research I looked into over this year but fell out of, was trying to find any sci-fi or theoretical discourse across the internet about if it was possible that a living alien being could be made out of plasma.

I think you just about rekindled my fire for that research 👀

[violet kestrel]

https://youtu.be/dV8jqNcGoj0?si=OevmYZA5hcK4pLyl

here is the link to that video with the prism. They talk about what colors of humanity they want to highlight in gameplay and refer to the prism. It could be a coincidence since it is a passing note in the slides or it could open up discussion about how the colored lights reflect diversity/Union of sky

[narrow marsh]

This makes me recall my conversation with @solid cave about how they and I theorized that the shells of Descendants and Ancestors are likely 'malleable' to a certain extent.
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

The bodily Light (with the understanding that the emitted energy is plasma) is actively holding the form together, and even when the form of the shell is damaged, it will just take form again.

OH!
Headcanon, but what if, due to their internal Light being weaker... Ancestors take longer to reform dents in their form

[nimble ingot]

Reminds me of an old headcanon by an theorist here called Vela.
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

That and this old concept (which has most likely evolved since then in today's game. But I think some of the concept still applies).

Skykids are neutral while the ancestors are a bit more on the dark side of the sliding scale.
(yes, I know this is showing an elder. The old concept was that elders were once ancestors who were chosen to become guardians. I am not saying that elders are/were ancestors themselves. But I am inferring to them being similar in regards to this old scale).

Another concept is the way how ancestors use triangles and their buildings have this tapered effect with a thick base/foundation.
Ancestors cannot fly on their own, but have found ways to achieve flight with technology and/or with the help of flying creatures.
They have a desire to be one with the skies even though they are build to walk and live on the ground.

Skykids are the descendants of ancestors and are capable of flight.
This might be so because the skykids embody (literally and metaphorically) what the ancestors wished to be.

[long vessel]

I don't know where it went but the malleability reminds me of another thing I learned about stars - they're held together by their own gravity! So what if our shells are held to our form by our own gravitational pull (which is not significant in the grand scheme, but strong enough to pull together the bits of dust and metal and other materials that may make up our shells)? And this is why our bodies can change shape and size; as long as the plasma changes shape, the body keeps shape around it

[violet kestrel]

This perfect circle represents the most blessed/connected attributes of sky. We see this shape in the Eden constellation. This would suggest the king/prince held the most precious power at some point and it wasn’t always corrupted like what we see with the diamond in Eden.

[nimble ingot]

Skykids are the Crystal Gems /j

[long vessel]

Funny how the concept of corrupted gems could also be applied to the elders

[violet kestrel]

Maybe the shattering is a result of dark stones attempting to be combined with this pure light- corrupting it and causing mass destruction. Where do we think this pure light comes from? Are there any other pictures with the orb? Is it possible this is the king finding enlightenment after he dies and goes through rebirth or is it something he had prior to death?

[nimble ingot]

It would be even more funny if skykids somehow hit a bingo on the Steven Universe plot.

• Fix a mistake that has permanently scared/corrupted many people/creatures.
• Be destined to be come similar to the villain that caused all of these problems ( who is no longer around to undo the damage themselves)
• The protagonist (Steven/Skykids) are related to the villain in some way (either metaphorically, figuratively or literally by some form of reincarnation)

[long vessel]

I think these are all examples of pure light and the contexts we can find them in

Edit: I also wanted to mention that the lights we see in forest, some of them seem to become butterflies. Other pieces of light fill fungi and make them glow or grow (I have pictures of that too). And we know they also make plants grow.

[violet kestrel]

Why do you guys think of the crown constellation for the friendship tree? How does that relate to the king?

[long vessel]

Honestly, I'm not sure. The only symbolism I could potentially see (other than being a crown and obviously referencing the king) is that maybe being a part of the "king's constellation" means you tend to receive the gift of light first. I forget what all the constellations are and the order they all go in, but it could even maybe be like a priority list. Without looking at it though, I honestly can't say

[violet kestrel]

I will try to find it in discord again! 😁 i saw it when I was looking for information on the importance of constellations. Before I heard about the king and other lore I just figured it talked about the connections between the sky kids as the “crowing of civilization “ in a sense. One of my favorite things about sky is the importance on kindness and connection with others so I imagine connection has a major role in lore- I just don’t know what that role is yet

In regards to internal light of ancestors being weaker- I think this is showcased in the emote. It has been as while since I have watched the spirit for this but I’m pretty sure it took all 8 ancestors to make the glow effect and it only takes 2-3 sky kids to make the light shine

[violet kestrel]

Sorry tried to reply to this

[nimble ingot]

adding on to this. With the Days of Rainbow event. The area now has the addition of different colours coming together.
In light theory, all the colours combines becomes white light and that is the brightest, purest form of light.

It can also represent the harmony and unity of the elements combined.

[violet kestrel]

Here is more information about constellations- It appears that maybe the constellations hold information?

Here is the old constellation order- seems to follow the main plots of discovery, harnessing butterflies, the dark stone, mantas, and death @long vessel

[narrow marsh]

That's a cool idea to note!

[violet kestrel]

Continuing with this idea someone mentioned earlier in chats (idk who) that ascended ancestors grant us 1 winged light- furthering the concept that the ancestors had less light and sky kids have more because the ability to collect the light. Which brings me to my next question- what are the winged light? This becomes more confusing when you think of the season of shattering spirits who aren’t represented by a humanoid entity

[pastel brook]

You want me to play you a lullaby or what?

[narrow marsh]

There actually have been theories that Ancestors could have used constellation patterns almost as a 'language' or a coding. Or perhaps it's not the Ancestors who designed this, but the Frequencies given off by the Light in the Sky create different constellations, and the Ancestors would record this as data.
https://www.tumblr.com/kyri45/755237089278394368?source=share

[halcyon wren]

Winged Light have been canonically referred to as "lost memories" but whose memories? Is it a specific entity or a collective?
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[violet kestrel]

This theory is super interesting considering the ancestors don’t have mouths- or if they do it is covered by the masks. I have a feeling we won’t hear any of them speak so it is possible they communicate through constellations and through music which is also written like constellations. They have ears but no mouths as far as I can tell. (The sky kids eat but I doubt they eat the way we would think considering lack of mouths. Maybe they “eat” by absorbing light)

[violet kestrel]

Thank you for sharing! I just found a mural that has the circle as well. It looks like the twins are competing for it or playing with it. The lore is that they took their power for granted so maybe they stopped treating it sacred at some point. Or it’s a ball- who knows? 🤷🏻‍♀️😂

[quasi depot]

A bit of a smaller lore thing but I was wondering if it's established at some point what the connection between the season of duets and the season of abyss is? Like back by the spirits you got the cosmetics from, it has the symbol for season of revival which makes sense as the duets hall is connected to aviary. But it also has the one for season of abyss, and the abyss spirits are the ones you have to bring to the hall for the final performance.
I don't remember there being any other connections specifically to abyss in the other duets quests but I have bad memory so it's entirely possible they were actually there and I'm just drawing blanks.

[long vessel]

From what I remember, the Abyss spirits watched the duets guides perform when they were younger (it looked to me like they were watching them play like a street performance) and one of them (I think Anxious Angler) drops a darkstone in a jar for them. I'm guessing they grew up in poverty in Wasteland. And then they did bring them to Aviary, like you said. And during their final performance, some of those spirits were there for that too.

I think, at the very least, this shows that even spirits sought refuge in Aviary sometime after Shattering.

This is another area I feel like we can see clear examples of color schemes being used to show different stories. The grey outfits on the left for the darker, bleaker, poorer period of time in life. They're still NICE clothes for the region, but they're still markedly duller than the other outfits on display. And then in Aviary, the COLOR. The white, purple, deep blue, and gold all speak to a level of comfortability and wealth. The color scheme, especially the pastels, feel like spring, which is the same vibe we get from Aviary. It represents newness. Growth. A fresh start.

You could even say the ones on the left represent Dusk, and the ones on the right represent Dawn (the realms and times of day, not the characters)

[narrow marsh]

Maybe that's a mote- from back when Light souls were motes 👀🕯️

[narrow marsh]

As Sam kinda said; their time sailing with the Abyss team represents an earlier time in their life. Because both Aviary and Season of Abyss very possibly takes place after the cataclysm, from these icon usages it looks to me like TGC has used the Abyss icon to represent the time after the cataclysm when survivors scavenged for resources to survive, and then the Revival icon to represent the post apocalyptic era where Stewie is gathering all the survivors across the world together within the Aviary village, and rebuilding.

This leaves us with two effective post-cataclysm eras of the Ancestors within the post-launch canon timeline.
👀🕯️
(Image below is from personal headcanon of the Ancestor kingdom's entire timeline)

[sharp wagon]

My theory is our skykids are the reincarnation of all evil, only being held back by the indefinite grind for cosmetics.

[narrow marsh]

Ah yes, the ultimate TGC propaganda; that FOMO is keeping the darkness at bay

[long vessel]

I was looking through older messages and came across this one that I think StarryScarab shared (don't want to reply to their message in case they don't want the ping). One: peep the whale eyes, there's only one other place I've seen eyes like those

Secondly, its bones are made of a substance like charcoal, like the ancestors. So how is charcoal made?

"Charcoal is made by heating wood or other organic materials above 400° C (750° F) in an oxygen-starved environment. The process, called pyrolysis, is exothermic – meaning it gives off heat once started."

I don't want to get too caught up on the charcoal aspect because they didn't say it is charcoal, but I do think the type of material it is may be relevant. In what ways is the material they are made of similar to charcoal? Is it formed in similar conditions? Does it react to fire similarly? Does it have purifying properties in a similar way to charcoal? Is it porous like charcoal?

[long vessel]

These too, also shared by StarryScarab (the absolute gem)

There was an extended trailer thing during skyfest

[spiral vault]

Rip, I thought something new came after skyfest, nvm

[spiral vault]

They are, I think there might be an interesting connection.

In the new intro, the skykid doesn't have an inner flame, and gets it from the candle in the Aviary.

Then, in Two Embers, the Hopeful Steward is a skykid who's missing the flame. They find a red candle and get the flame, but lose it by the end of the series.

[spiral vault]

In my opinion, the cataclysm and the aviary happen very close to each other

[violet kestrel]

what is a mote?

[violet kestrel]

I think the charcoal substance for the bones isn't what the bones were originally made of- I think it went through carbonization as this is something that can happen to bones when exposed to certain conditions. I would guess that instead of the creatures being made of light they were consumed by it- thus their bones succumbing to carbonization. Maybe the krills are whales that turned and the dark bones are the start of their corruption. This would explain why the krills have black particles falling as they move- maybe it is pieces of burnt particles. Maybe they were burned up by the corruption that existed.

[quartz ether]

Is there some definitive story timeline?

Also are ancestors the elders? Or ancestor spirits in general

[narrow marsh]

The lore is meant to be very unclear and unspecific, so that people can have their own interpretations and try to discover the 'Truth' for themself! Here's a pamphlet made by the lore community on some things we kinda are sure on though 👀🕯️
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/12XSkaMV_5UYG-an_Qo37ItyKP6GaqBBA6iRqBVE2qck/mobilebasic#heading=h.cmfnuox3fw3h

[quartz ether]

Thank you!

[narrow marsh]

It will also answer a tiny bit about your second question.

[pulsar gate]

Did the kingdom of sky ever found a way to defend themselves? Or they just perished one by one?

I’m not sure if Wasteland is a warzone or a place where mass extermination took place

[narrow marsh]

While Sky was still very early in its development, they were still working on the innate mechanics of the worldbuilding.
Though the visual thematics and presentation have changed aggressively over time, there has and will always be one theme that has been present since Sky's earliest days:
Soul.
Jenova Chan distinctly wanted to focus on living Beings all beating with the same heart, same energy. And that hasn't ever changed up till now.

They have always wanted Sky to strongly use themes where every Being has a 'Core' to them; where from which their energy comes from and in which their Soul remains.
While today, we have Light and Flame; back then they had a different idea for how they wanted to present the concept of our Soul.

Enter motes: a small rock/pebble thing that contains boundless energy. Motes would fall from the Megabird down into the world, and sometimes these "motes" would amass energy enough to form living Beings around them!
(Which means motes was "Light substance" before "Light" existed. The mote would then become the "core" of these Beings. Inside that core lies the Being's soul.
However, motes didn't always have a Being formed over them; and it seems like motes wouldve found everywhere as the game's currency.

At this stage in development, while the concrete-ness of the anatomy of Beings was not yet decided on; a few things do seem similar to some things we see in post-launch!

1. The Ancestors found the power of the motes could be used as an energy source for machines.
   (Evolved into darkstone concept.)

2. Darkness at this stage grew as corrupted creatures; malformed monsters that still have a "mote core" and therefore are undoubtedly from the megabird.
   (Evolved into dark creatures concept; warped and not natural!)

3. Motes would be collected as currency and be turned into Rings. These rings could go on your clothing or be used/consumed(?) to strengthen your own Being/soul.
   (Evolved into wax concept.)
   (Evolved into winged light concept.)

There's much more imagery of motes elsewhere across the endless obscurely-found concept art for Sky, but I'm really tired. Hopefully someone can pull up more on motes.

[narrow marsh]

It was likely a war, as we see it during the Aurora concert (which I heavily recommend you going to see at some point in your skykid's life) 👀🕯️

[pulsar gate]

Oh! Where is that? I’d love to watch

[narrow marsh]

If someone has golden aurora wings they and any friends they're holding hands with can watch the aurora concert at any time. However, these wings cost a whopping 30-40 (in)USD, depending on what country you live in. So it can be hard to find someone who has them and will help you experience that. There is also Days of Aurora, where the concert is open for a week or so to all people. Not sure if it's happening this year though.

[pastel brook]

this is why we live like heathens, stealing from the trees of Eye of Eden

[pulsar gate]

I see. Unfortunate:/ still happy to learn about this! Thank you

[scenic pebble]

hey uhh
correct me if i'm wrong but aren't ancestors incapable of wielding light directly?

[timber current]

Wasn’t Days of Aurora just for the encore? Idk if it’s coming back, but the wings were a “spell” at the anniversary. That’s how I got to go so much. Hopefully they do come back, at least in that way, next year.

[cold sparrow]

The wings were sold as a permanent item during the first concert.

[cold sparrow]

You can try asking in #looking-for-group-live if anyone could take you to the Aurora concert. Anyone that owns the wings can just teleport you there.

[timber current]

Yes I’m aware. I read the IAPs returned for the Encore, but for the anniversary they were not available to purchase.

[violet kestrel]

I honestly have no idea- maybe someone else knows if ancestors can wield light directly. I would guess they can just because I don't know how else they could

[narrow marsh]

Correct, but in the instance of the 8-player puzzle, all eight of those Ancestors are working together to activate a *power diamond, which in turn projects a beacon into the Sky (for unknown reasons as usual) 🕯️

[scenic pebble]

i mean
maybe they just had some candles with them

[narrow marsh]

Some people believe they can, such as this fascinating genius on Skyblr that (I think) goes by Mufotsuki.
https://www.tumblr.com/mufos-photo-album/758715227153055744/i-do-wanna-say-that-i-imagine-spellcasting-via?source=share

[narrow marsh]

The cutscene shows them reaching out with bare hands. There is no Light coming from them, but this scenario does match with what scholars in the Vault can do; activate power diamonds without physical contact.

[narrow marsh]

Before anyone gets confused reading that by the way, please note the importance of the word "activate", and not "power".

[scenic pebble]

sorry
i kinda didn't figure out what exactly you meant
the Sky magic or whatever is pretty weird if you look at it in any way
since these guys have hella fancy graves maybe they had some arcane knowledge or something
i dunno

[dense zodiac]

How come it’s called ‘Darkstone’? (/genq) like to me the crystals seem like power banks, like they store and expel energy you input. (With the gates, it’s not having time to store the energy you give it, because that energy is being input into the mechanical systems.)

That is to say they don’t seem inherently dark, because they aren’t really consuming the energy, just storing it.

[spiral vault]

My opinion is: They could when they were alive, but they can't now, because they're dead

[long vessel]

A couple reasons, I think. First, and probably least important, is that they are physically a dark color. More importantly, imo, is their effect on Sky's environment. The light used to power them had to be harvested in incredible amounts, seemingly primarily from light creatures. That in itself likely began to decrease the overall amount of light present in the world, lending to Darkness starting to take hold. And not only that, it seems that during some part of the process, these stones also leak and pollute the water with a dark, oily substance that saps life.

But also, darkstone likely wasn't always called that. "Powerstone" is another name they might have been known by. I doubt that it was called darkstone by those who used it the most, but it could have been a name given to it by those who didn't like the technology or saw how it was affecting the world around them

[dense zodiac]

Oh cool! Wait, where do we see instances of it creating the oil? (Invested and excited at this point-)

[long vessel]

Wasteland is a great place to see it, geyser is too. You'll notice the way the water glistens in both, it puts off an oily rainbow sheen. And it seems like that substance eventually thickens and hardens into a rocky hard substance, which you can see near open pipes, especially in Crab Fields

[narrow marsh]

That's a good question, and I'm afraid it's a question for the developers. That is the name that TGC has used time and time again. However, don't quote me on this, but "darkstone" is only the concept art name of our infamous crystal material. It (again, don't quote me) technically may not be the canon name in post-Launch.

And yet it is functionally the name of it for all time with the lore community until we're directly told otherwise a new name for it. In my opinion, its name, like you say, is a MASSIVE misnomer.
Going further, I (personally) believe that "darkness" is in a similar situation.

I really don't believe their names mean the *stereotypical definitions of what most people think of when they hear the word "dark".

[narrow marsh]

I've theorized that it's the opposite actually. Now that they are Beings made of pure Light, with no shell to distort their Connection; they have a much greater influence on their bodily Light and Light substance around them. 👀🕯️

[dense zodiac]

Ooo thank you! I didn’t realize the name was from concept art, I’ve only been playing for I think 2 ish months now ( July 23rd was my join date-)

[narrow marsh]

I love your last thought there that the name is actually anti-King propaganda

That's actually so perfect for headcanon stories about the greater world of the kingdom's society and social goings. 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

Again, don't quote me on this we need someone who actually retains information reliably to confirm this is true 😅

[dense zodiac]

Still, thank you so much for the info!

[long vessel]

"A surface that absorbs light" is such an interesting and relevant definition of darkness. That's another convincing reason they could be called darkstone (by those who call it that)

[narrow marsh]

Exactly. That's actually how that article of mine concludes: that that is the correct definition of what they intended the name for

We should never settle on the first definition google provides us. Language is so much more beautiful than that.

[long vessel]

OH! I have to find it, but I almost forgot - did anyone else notice the brand new shield drop from the trailers? The new shields show Resh's mask, with its many points lol. The anti-king propaganda mention reminded me

[narrow marsh]

If you find screenshots that'd be amazing!

[long vessel]

There's one fairly clearly shown in the background - unfortunately it was the clearest shot I could get

What's frustrating is it looks enough like a diamond AND a sun that I'm still unable to clearly say which is supposed to be which (but personally think his was the sun side, as I think that's how Powerstones would have been viewed by him and the kingdom - and because of the OOB temple with the darkstone emblem that looks like it has sun rays shining down from it)

[narrow marsh]

I truly wonder... That has to be the HD equivalent of the diamond shield.

We can finally officially confirm this! (later after TTE not now )

[Images from fandom wiki
https://images.app.goo.gl/YoT3Y1Ky186yq2kf6]

[long vessel]

Yeah, tbh, I'm still not sure. If the sun side are the rebels, that would mean they made it all the way to that first building in Eden, at least.

I gotta say, I'm SO interested to see how they portray the rebellion in this show. I hope they're at least half as cool as I imagine them to be lmao

I also wonder if the other shield is going to get a cool rework and what that will look like. And also, who the heck are making these things?? Especially for the rebel group, like where the heck are they getting the resources? They literally seem like they're made by the same person with how they are currently portrayed. That could change, though

[narrow marsh]

You keep making me imagine everything TGC will portray poorly with the show tbh 💀
I'm so scared
What is that word we used before?

[long vessel]

I don't think there's any way they can live up to all our hopes lol, but at least the new lore will make our own worlds that much more colorful

I have no doubt it will at least be a high quality production with a lot of new, interesting info and a lot of exciting cameos of our favorite spirits and places in the world

[pulsar gate]

There’s going to be a show?

[narrow marsh]

Would you like to be DMed all 3 trailers? We can't post some in here because TGC keeps deleting uploads of the trailers shown at skyfest

[pulsar gate]

If you’d be so kind as to do that I would be grateful

I looked up the Aurora concert & it’s 45 minutes long😵‍💫 I’ll add it to my watch list for the weekend

Oh it’s actually Aurora Aurora! Like the singer!!

I knew that voice was familiar from the first cutscene in Isle of Dawn

[narrow marsh]

Trust me when I say it's so worth the wait looking for someone to go with. It's not the same on a video, although I hope you enjoy it however you end up doing so! I'll send you the trailers now. ❤️🕯️

[pulsar gate]

So the show will portray the war but from a different perspective, hmm.

But also… a rebellion? Could it be that the King’s attempt to hold off the rebellion led to the unintended creation of corrupted dark creatures? Or maybe, the King planned to weaponize them, ultimately losing control over them. The show has a lot of potential

The timeline is confusing me, though. The war is portrayed, as well as the Steward living in a post-apocalyptic world. Unless they have time jumps in mind.

One thing is sure, the Steward’s pet’s left fin lesion confirms Dark creatures were once light creatures who became corrupted. Can it be cured? I’m dying to see.

…and how will the show’s story correlate with the Poems from The Shattering?

[narrow marsh]

So far, it seems that first we will get the story of "the Dawn Ember". (This is TGC's official canon name for the character with the pointy mask.)
This character will experience the earlier days of the kingdom, back when there were only 5 Elders, and no Eden Elder.

Then we will be presented a second story, which will be about "the Dusk Ember" (another official name according to TGC) who we know as the Hopeful Steward. The Dusk Ember will journey through a dried out and damaged version of the kingdom, for an unknown goal, with relation to the timeline parallel to the cataclysm being widely unknown.

Just via their names, we can get a very vague idea that there is indeed a massive timeskip somehow.
The Dawn Ember's story occurs at the beginning of the kingdom.
The Dusk Ember's story occurs at the end of the kingdom...

Furthermore, we have a bit more given to us by TGC interviews, (I forget where though-) where we are told that each Ember has a different view on how to "save the world". I'm sure this information will drive the story of each of their destinies.

[pulsar gate]

The official names are a big giveaway, considering TGC’s interpretation of each map & it’s meaning to the Kingdom’s story (information revealed during “Seven days of sky”).

Based on their names, it’s safe to assume the Dusk Ember’s world will resemble Golden Wasteland (originally called “Dusk”, hence the map concept portrays a fallen civilization after it’s glory days [Valley]).

Safe to say, Steward’s story should align with this concept. I’m hoping they’ll play with the Elder’s story as well. They could re-visit the early idea of Wasteland Elder being a soldier who lost everything in the war, but finds hope in the Ember.

[mild marten]

idk how this managed to fly past me for so long but oh my god i jist realised the pillars at the end of gw have the same sillouette as the eden king

[nimble ingot]

The word stemmed from old cocnept art that called it that.

But it has since then gain other names like crystals and diamonds.

So it is generally just an old name people have been using.

[quartz ether]

Hello knowledgable people

I was wondering if black candles hold sny spefific meaning seeing they appear only in vault and season of flight i think

[spiral vault]

I think this is the pro-king sympathizers, if I'm being honest. If the Wasteland Elder has the sun shield, then they could be trying a last-stand assault on the temple. The krills probably targeted both sides indiscriminately

[long vessel]

Sorry, let me make sure I understand, who are you saying you think are pro-king sympathizers? The diamond or the sun? Or do you mean the picture of the new shield?

[narrow marsh]

I've never noticed or thought about those being black, I thought it was just lighting!

[spiral vault]

This shield seems to look more like the diamond shield. It has the pointed up symbol like

So the people in the Two Embers trailer might be "pro-king". But in general, the war might have spiraled out of control from its original intentions

[nimble ingot]

In the battlefield, the diamond shield army had blades and were seemingly storming the temple. While the round shields with spears were seemingly defending the temple.

This is purely based on where these shields are found and how one side has more of each side grouped than than other.

Furthermore, the wasteland/dusk elder has a spear and round shield, while their constellation has the diamond shield and assumingly storming the temple.

The elder may be the guardian of the temple.
Although I suspect and theorise they were once fighting for the other side.

[nimble ingot]

That seems like more of a glitch in the shading.
Unless TGC intended to add ombre candles, lol.

That said, if not black, they might be either glitched white candles, or possibly blue candles.

Season of Lightseekers had blue candles. But due to them being harder to spot in darker areas. It looks like they were the last season to have blue candles.

[lost needle]

Yeah i think thats more of a glitch than a feature 😭

[quartz ether]

🫡 thanks regardless

[spiral vault]

Maybe the Wasteland Elder was originally diamond shielded, but then switch to the star shield, angering the diamond shield people

[nimble ingot]

Ohh. I love that theory (as a fan theory at the very least)!!

Imagining if this was canon, the poor elder would have been felt so much guilt fighting the ancestors they once protected.
The betrayal and the sacrifice it costed.

Not to mention deepening the mystery of their reasoning.

I dearly wish that the game actually gives lore theories like these a bone.
Assuming this was a possible canon (or the intended story by TGC), having text or more evidence to strengthen the theory would have been amazing.

Lore can still be open to interpretation while the recommended/vanilla version can still be disclosed.
People who make fan content will do so no matter what. Omitting the canon lore is just denying one of the many interpretations the game can have.
In my opinion, doing so does more harm than good.

It makes the role of lore meaningless if there is no canon. Having half-canon means only half of the lore is valid. And half of the guess work and research people do gets the satisfaction of finding the answer.

People who make their own fan theories are fine with canon lore because they enjoy making lore of their own while exploring their creative freedom.
TGC can make a statement that they want fan theories have equal value as canon lore, but should not deny people who wish to learn what the canon lore is.
Otherwise, it is just a bunch of fan theories and no one can confirm if their interpretation is 'canon' (correct).

It is like having a race, but no one is allowed to know who got first place.
Meaning there are no winners. But everyone are called "winners".
Which has no value. It in fact devalues the work of those who want to strive towards being a "winner."
People can still have their own definition of winning the "race." While the judge (TGC) can still give the parameters that lay out what is the "winning" state as an option for those who would like to know.
Otherwise, the point of the race is meaningless...

[violet kestrel]

Do we know this why they changed the color? What if the blue light seeker candles had significance.

How many different candle colors are there?

•red near the office and maybe in valley?
•white foraged and friendship candles
•orange seasonal candles

Let me know what other ones you think of

[nimble ingot]

From a gameplay perspective. The blue candles were apparently hard to spot in dark places like the Vault (especially when unlit).
From a lore standpoint though, each season has a colour that shows up in their emblem.
It may not be that obvious in the game. But it is noticeable in the glow of the emblems on a white background.
For example, season of enchantment is magenta, lightseekers are blue, and the recent season of duets were cobalt blue (mind you, these are colours I see them having. These may not be accurate or the official colours. Sadly)

[long vessel]

Got some cool oob pics of Eden and its architecture, about to send a few more from my phone

[upbeat jasper]

hiii. I thought here would be the best place to ask, but does anyone have the dimensions for nests? I'm using it for a school project :3

[long vessel]

I have no idea personally but that sounds like a COOL project, wishing you all the luck!

[upbeat jasper]

alrighty, looks like I'll have to pull a matpat and do some pixel measurements and at least a few fainting chibis xD
I'll try my best to remember sending my results here ^^

[long vessel]

That would be so appreciated!

[nimble ingot]

That would be a great idea for your project!

If your teacher does not give you credit or praise for taking that initiative, it would be disappointing.

Here is something to help you.
Credit to @hushed steeple for their intuitive Chibi Measurement unit called cbm.
They used chibis to measure many things in the game. From spirits, to the massive whale . The even measured a krill!

Coupled with an old theorist called @sharp lichen, who managed to work out what a chibi's height is supposed to be.
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

Hope this helps.

[upbeat jasper]

thank you, this will help me a lot! I plan on using that chibi height against the size of the floor tiles (with the assumption that those are all the same size) and how many tiles are in the room

my whole project will be the layout of my stuff in a nest, but I'll send my findings for nest dimensions here :3

[hushed steeple]

You just tryna bring me back?
Lol

This is a joke btw

[slim mango]

why Snufkins appearance does have stars on his body? as seen here in #news ?

[hushed steeple]

Dunno

[vernal thunder]

It's kinda lika a spirit thing. You can notice it in all/most of the spirits

[hushed steeple]

I think they’re just confused that snufkin had the spirit effect while Moomin and the other guy didn’t. It shocked me personally, I’m not sure if the characters are gonna be spirits or not or if Snufkin is a unique example.

[narrow marsh]

It certainly is interesting. I really liked the direction they went with the Little Prince; that he is an actually completely different Being than us, who are made of Light.

[ancient canopy]

Maybe the sparkles aren't easily visible on the other characters or something related to the game engineering 🤔 we haven't seen the season yet so not sure

[violet kestrel]

I’ve never thought of it till now but the Krill look significantly smaller than the “whurtles” in wasteland. This would suggest that krill would have to be pack hunters to have killed them. Do we think the krills killed them?

If krill are pack hunters and krill are just corrupted creatures of light- one can assume they were once pack animals then too. Very rarely do we see a krill on its own- the only time we see that is in the second map of wasteland, the 9 colored deer area (but I want to say more krill came in the cut scenes), and the ark

The krill look a lot like this drawing- unsure if it is actual sky art or fan made. The only thing is we have seen this whale/elder manta on its own in sanctuary but it doesn’t have a friend or travel in a pack

My other question is if krill are corrupted sky creatures- why are they violent towards sky kids? Does the darkness change them into fighting machines, are they hurting and lashing out, were they trained to do this, or are they madly trying to regain the light they once had?

And if krill are inherently violent due to the corruption- does it have the same effect on spirits?

One thing I just thought of is the possibility that krills were inspired by stoplight loose jaw fish who hunt using red light- and they look a lot like krill 👀

it can’t see well where it is so red light helps them locate prey AND they prefer smaller prey over large prey- which makes more sense why they go after the little creatures like us instead of finding a filling meal

The more I learn about these creatures the more it makes sense

[light minnow]

I just looked up that fish
My friend next to me goes "kinda looks like tights for the legs"

[ancient canopy]

Its the actual sky concept art!

[last isle]

LORE CHAT
I forget it exists
I love lore though

[nimble ingot]

Snufkins is a characyer from the book, not an ancestor of sky.

I do assumethough they will become echoes, memories or something like a phantom after the season ends, if the creators of the characters had a similar arrangement as with the Little Prince.

[nimble ingot]

That is a good question.

sadly though the game would not oblige with an answer because we never see the Krill attavking any creature larger than itself.
The only time we have seen them with something larger is the leviathan. However it is fair to assume they would not go for a larger dark creature.

However, it does open up a theory of them potentially corrupting larger creatures if the leviathan were to become corrupted from being trapped in a tank with krill for all this time...

Small headcanon/fanon

Granny can knit. And I am going to assume they can crochet too.

So there can be skykids who learned how to knit, crochet and even make those small wool coords made from frech knitting.

Imagine there is a questline with Granny where you find wool or cotton in the realms (be it from an animal like sheep, or from plants) and you bring these scraps for granny to use.
Once you have enough, you get to do this cute minigame where you make cosmetic accessories for yourself in the end.

Granny would also gift an item if you were to bring a lot, or done the minigame very well.

Imagine the mittens, the socks, a hat or even little scarf. ♡

(Imma put this in feedback as well)

[hushed steeple]

Idea: quadwing manta quad-copter

[narrow marsh]

That is indeed real concept art, and some people tend to look at any large light creature and accuse it of being the krill's original form. What will be the truth; we can't know for sure.

[narrow marsh]

We definitely need this illustrated.

@/kamilico 👀

[soft token]

YAAAY CROCHETING MENTIONED

i would give an arm and a leg for a crocheting emote. everyone only ever does knitting TwT

[nimble ingot]

I know there is some left over assets somehwere in the aviary and one of these blocked of room (upstairs from the flight and dream guide shop), there is what I believe is meant to be granny's room.

How so? There is a rocking chair and some wool. ♡

[long vessel]

WAIT WHEN DID THAT GET THERE (furiously scribbling reminder to go check it out )

[nimble ingot]

It has been there since the are was added back in season of Revival.

I could have sworn there was a manniquin thing somewhere in the room. But would rather want to check old screenshots to be sure.

Welp. If I dont have a pic of that. I cannot prove that it exists...

[nimble ingot]

Just be sure you have a way to clip out of bounds

And this is in the shop with the dream/flight guides.
This would just above the area where the flight and dream guides have their shops.

I assume TGC would have wanted to add a second floor some time. It is a shame they had to board it up.

[long vessel]

I agree, it seems like they want to expand Aviary more in the future, considering all the empty second-story places (and that massive dark bloom tucked into the clouds 👀 )

[long vessel]

Small update to our colored light conversation - the single candle in the tunnel in Crescent Lake seems to have a blue light. I think it's also the first I've seen that definitely looks blue and not questionably cyan.

I find it interesting that this is the tunnel that takes water from Crescent Oasis and shoots from the waterfall that feeds water through the desert kingdom. We know blue light clears darkness from water. All I could think of when I noticed it was that it could be a way of filtering water so that it would be safe for the kingdom to drink and use

[violet kestrel]

I know you all probably saw this already but i really feel like I’m onto something. The dragonfish hunts with a red light located under its eye, it’s black and long and looks like a dark dragon, capable of eating prey bigger than them but tends to eat smaller prey, plentiful in the abysmal ocean- from the deepest darkest parts of earth.

I genuinely think this was the concept for the krill

It’s a dark dragonfish= Dark Dragon

[echo sequoia]

I had the exact same thought when I saw the elder the first time. I immediately thought that it looked a lot like a Krill. Maybe if Krill aren't corrupted manta ray, they could be like a similar species that "went extinct" via corruption and becoming just skeletal.

Also, unrelated to the manta/krill thing and possibly already talked about. But the clip of the series from the Steam platform release trailer.
A.) The Isle was so lively I'm gonna cry.
B.) The distance between the takeoff point to the temple seems longer than current day? They were on that boat what seemed like a while. It could just be for storytelling but I wonder if the shattering changed the geography of Sky

You could say those mountains are just clouded over and sure some are, but I think some are just gone 👀

gone

[hushed steeple]

There were mannequins in there at one point but they’ve been removed for a while now.

[hushed steeple]

I believe this happens all the time normally on planets with tectonic plates. That could’ve happened for a number of reasons; earthquake, shard eruptions, floating island drift, etc.
But it was also definitely done by the creators for a more emotional scene. Sky is a brand that uses story telling and “literary” devices heavily to the point that it affects the core of the lore of the game.

[echo sequoia]

I know it's not the most shocking but I think it's fun to know. Worldbuilding in the literal sense.

I'm all for throwing science out to prioritize storytelling logic. But once the unrealistic (to our laws of science) thing is canon, I also love speculating what the scientific explanation is. I don't mean like atoms and elements and other chemistry stuff per se but biology and geology. Thinking about it comparison to other vast lores and their explanations. Because there's sky people that were engineers, we know there were many academics, so there was probably scientists. I love speculating what their science was. It's fun just like any other lore discussion.

[hushed steeple]

Especially with the whole floating islands and living in the clouds part. They’re likely going to have unique words for the movements of those geological structures.

[edgy kernel]

I know a very long time ago people theorized some islands float because of darkstone ore inside them, which is why you'd see floating islands in prairie but not so much anywhere else because they mined it like crazy afterwards, heh.

Not too sure how well that works nowadays, considering darkstone might instead show up as crystal formations instead.

[spiral vault]

That's a very cool idea, but I think some things are also floating due to the natural wind gusts. Such as the citadel in Valley

[hushed steeple]

Yeah

It also seems like dark stone forms closer to water, which would make sense seeing as most light creatures are aquatic or aquatic based.

[narrow marsh]

It's actually part of the game's mechanics since abyss that any wax that spawns in water turns blue. We see this actively in the reef, at geyser, and basically any water activity really that gives us wax on water or under water.

This is going to be very controversial, but I don't believe that just because we see colored Light being used as a spell for a specific purpose in one scene or scenario, it doesn't necessarily mean we can 100% determine that that suddenly is now the primary role of that color of colored Light.

Perhaps one color could branch out into a category of spells that that colored light is capable of.
Colored light would be the ingredient to the spell, not the spell itself.

[narrow marsh]

Exactly. We don't know if it's been dozens, hundreds, or thousands of years since the fall of the kingdom. Either way, "a long time has passed", and everything has fallen apart over time. Everything changes.

[narrow marsh]

The geography of Sky is such an underrated topic. It's very difficult to measure or comprehend Sky's world on a 3d scale but the payoff is so worth it ❤️🕯️

[narrow marsh]

There were definitely scientists, and the Abyss lab is the greatest example. I love going to Treasure Reef for fresh perspective on (literal!) lore diving

I've actually been doing a lot of pondering and speculation over a headcanon concept of Light substance consisting of photonic molecules being stored within a membrane made of plasma that generates a self sustaining EM field for the photonic lifeform (a manta in this instance)

While my findings lead me to believe this is completely implausible, it was a very fun last two days speculating with friends over how to create the scenario of a photonic being living in an earth-like world

[hushed steeple]

Does anyone else think the abyss island is a literal giant fossil?

[narrow marsh]

I'd never thought of it, did I miss that it looks like one from overhead?? 👁️👄👁️

[low trout]

quick question bc i think i saw it somewhere, do sky kids feel pain when they lose their light in eden?

[narrow marsh]

Skykids not only get pushed by being damaged, but also flinch and cower and react when under attack by things such as rock rain. These visually present expressions surely tell us that they do feel pain.

[pseudo girder]

I had a thought regarding the dark dragonfish, the nudibranch-looking things in the upper floors of vault, and other light creatures — the “good” or helpful ones to skids seem to be based on things that live closer to the surface of the water. Granted, my sample size for scary dangerous sky creatures is one but I thought it was interesting that the light creatures live closer to the light

Edit: forgot about crabs, but they’re bottom dwellers so this still works

[low trout]

i always wondered if it was fear or if pain

[narrow marsh]

The animation for sacrificing your WL to free that statues seems to display an immense amount of exertion on the skykids part. I'd personally believe that that moment particularly is so, so painful.

[low trout]

i always feel so bad whenever i lose wl before the halfway mark in eden, like...thinking of that light child being rescued while you're wandering the realms only to be lost again before they can be at peace

[hushed steeple]

Kind of, but also I generally just has such weird features for an island that fit for a massive leviathan, like near the Commodore’s tower that they climb in their memory, there are weird limb like protrusions under the water. And with an abundance of dark stone formed there in relation to the fact that we see petrified sky kids with crystals emerged from their bodies while running up to Eden, it kinda makes sense.
There are also some suspiciously head like formations near the limb like protrusions I mentioned before.

Perhaps the ancestors discovered this dark stone here, then began running out, so they began using living animals to get more.

[violet kestrel]

I’m all for the complex scientific approach for understanding sky lore but as an award winning artist I can’t help but think about the process of creating new worlds through research and design.
I think the concepts of things were more so inspired by things in our world and they took bits and pieces of it rather than becoming intellectually aware of the intricate process of light and other mechanisms. I definitely heavily research my art but personally I can’t see concept artists going into depth with scientific explanations. I think it is fun and I am very interested to hear what people say but that’s just my two cents 😁💕

Also if anyone is wanting and graphics made for their theories I make a lot of art and I’d be more than willing to help

[hushed steeple]

This is actually true, I read the art book and they did specifically mention using inspiration from architecture of our world to help make the culture and architecture of Sky feel more relatable to us.

[pseudo girder]

Oh I agree, I think it’s an interesting trend is all. I assume part of it is that surface-dwelling creatures are generally prettier and more graceful, especially ones like nudibranchs that are terrible at swimming and more or less just float around. Coupling that with how alien deep sea creatures look, especially the fact that having lighter skin reflects more light which is bad in the deep sea, but helpful near the surface where being black makes you stand out, it makes a lot of sense.

[echo sequoia]

Oh totally! I honestly think the color could be random or even emotional but without pattern. Like unique to the individual.

[echo sequoia]

Also the injured standing position! It seems they're only affected physically by loss of light (rather than physical impact like the many times I fly into stuff) and there wouldn't really be a reason to limp or be favoring a certain body part if not for pain.

That even could mean the pain of losing light lingers for awhile

[nimble ingot]

It may still work, just the name of the mineral changed.

[narrow marsh]

Darkstone has always been a crystal/mineral, and the lore community has often called it a crystal long before we ever saw visual representation of it in game.

That being said; I see no reason why it couldn't have existed as ore and grains within the ground of Sky's lands. We actually see visual evidence of this proposition in the same place we see direct visual representation of the crystals; at specific points while in the cave where you find the Jolly Geologist; you will see that grains in the walls and ceiling are glowing the same color as the crystals.
I think there's still plenty of validity to the idea that islands float because of darkstone within the ground. 🕯️

[edgy kernel]

ahhhh interesting, i didn't remember the walls inside there at all. could be that its still like that, heh

I discussed those theories with people back during flight, actually more interesting to me that it maybe could still hold up

[narrow marsh]

I think we find over the years that the theories that stick stick for a reason.

[violet kestrel]

One question about the islands floating because of dark stone- would they be floating because of a mechanism or because anti gravity properties the stone possesses?

[violet kestrel]

Do we think there is significance in the layout of aviary?

[violet kestrel]

This is kinda “out there” so bear with me- I feel like the portals kinda look like the top of the mountain in this mural. And there are 4 paths going into buildings and 2 more “unmarked “ ones going into the nests and duets. I feel like the circle shape lines remind me of some concept art for the mega bird. And the 6 paths could represent the portals? Maybe?

[narrow marsh]

The proposition was of naturally-floating pieces of land; so the latter, generally 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

There may be a connection in visual representation between the portals; the thrones in the throne room (the one in vault and the one in Eden) and then those pillars that make up the iconic shape of the Eden steeple. Is anyone able to summon pictures of all 4 of those?

[lost needle]

Chat got krilled

[nimble ingot]

The Bobbit of Lorechat Yore still lives.

Only the old ones still remember the time when the emojis had Krill Riders

[lost needle]

Fr

[strange flare]

if I shake my screen slightly the krills get shaken too

[nimble ingot]

hehehhe, nice >:)

[strange flare]

Ok this theory is just really crazy, but bear with me.

The symbol from Season of Aurora made me think of The Light / Megabird. I know it is meant to represent the wings of Aurora, but I feel that it is to represent The Light.

I know some of you may argue how canon it was to the lore, considering the season is a collaboration.

To that I propose this idea:
Aurora (In game) is not the real life Aurora being dropped into the game. Instead I'd like to think that Aurora (in game) is a representation/voice of The Light.

[pastel brook]

‘cause just like the crabs, everything wants to live

[strange flare]

Skybot, I will not hesitate to cook the crabs.

[narrow marsh]

Exactly! Aurora's voice has always represented The Light calling us to return, as we hear proper versions of that theme whenever the area we are in is directing us towards the path of ascension. It's always been a theory of mine that The Light's call is something all Beings of Light can hear. The familiarity of the voices in the Sky is something that I believe is programmed into all Light. Everything is called to return, and keep the Cycle flowing.

[hushed steeple]

distant crab songs playing to the crabs

[violet kestrel]

I think all of this is heightened when you consider we have never heard another character speak and in some ways it appears music is the way they communicate. We don’t see any written words anywhere- just murals and music sheets. I’d argue that Aurora being the light calling the sky kids is just another connection we have with communication and music in sky. Also no ancestors have mouths but they do have ears

[narrow marsh]

I must go

[spiral vault]

I think calls is how light creatures communicate, including skykids. When we use the chat function, we also call as well.

I wonder if the Ancestors had specific calls, and I wonder if they sound like.

[fresh cosmos]

can someone explain the difference between Alef and Resh for me?

[strange flare]

Also in Isle of Dawn's first cut scene

[lost needle]

The name of the song is also the light beyond

[spiral vault]

In simple terms: the same people, but at different ages.

[violet kestrel]

We do relive some memories where we learn the calls from- do the ancestors make the noise in any of them?

I feel like so much of the lore is reliant on spirits memories but I just skip them all. The. Time. I like to do speed candle runs and at some point I should go and see the memories again.

[waxen ermine]

Ancestors do honk
Like Granny who copies the last honk she heard
If you wait long enough in the music hall, the ancestors who are constantly emoting might honk
And if you hold Nesting Guide’s hand and do a deep honk, they will deep honk with you

[gilded socket]

hjonk

[violet kestrel]

Did you change your profile picture just for this joke or are you goose all the time? Haha. Either way I admire you

[gilded socket]

i think ive been like this for a while
It was the Oneshot lightbulb at first then a bunch of friends in another server wanted to do matching pfps with birds
So I picked the only obvious choice

[violet kestrel]

If honks are speech then what do the different honks mean? Are the various honks simply different inflections to show mood or are they different languages/accents?

This is my kind of “out there” theory but we aren’t able to make the sounds until after we relive the spirit. I wonder if honks are something that the ancestors discovered and simply mirror creatures- as if the imprint of an ancestor is able to echo other creatures like a parrot but may not have speech themselves.

[gilded socket]

Tbh, the honks come from people who specialize in that creature iirc

And I guess from their specialties, they spread that manner of speech around?
Based on how it's cosmetic, I don't think different creature honks impede on their comprehension of each other, and they stick to however they communicate with each other in the first place, just with different flavors.

So different honks are definitely not different languages. It could be closer to differentiating inflections or accents, though I am leaning more to inflections due to how easy it is to switch between honk types.

have you ever spammed every honk in your possession when you're bored? i sure have
and grandma is also capable of reflecting these different honks too

[waxen ermine]

Speaking of honks, I noticed when sky kids have lost all light, the honk stays at the lowest C in C major they can honk on the default moth honk
(Even if you have set a different honk)

Like my kid with the bird honk, when injured goes to default moth honk at the same lowest C tone

So like, ancestors have three forms of speech
-Actual dialogue (text dialogue in Little Prince for example)
-Honking
-Gesturing

My hypothesis, it’s the same way players talk, maybe? It’s just faster to honk and gesture than typing

[rapid trail]

Right now sky feels so lore accurate cuz server merge aint merging rn

[celest birch]

Yeah, that´s basically the actual state of the Kingdom: Journey-like.

[strange flare]

what about the state of duet hall?

[sacred mauve]

I like to think that honks are like accents

[narrow marsh]

Wow I actually remember your oneshot pfp, memory lane indeed

[narrow marsh]

That's perfectly valid! That theme of mine about how Beings of Light 'communicate' through changes in Frequencies in energy waves would be relevant to this thought process.

Let's say Ancestors have their Call language; which is the same language we are Born with as moffys.
Then let's say light creatures have their own 'languages'. The details of how many languages there are between species isn't important right now.

Regardless of whether Ancestors can directly understand light creature's 'words'; each creature would have a unique pattern of Frequency in their call. The Ancestor could choose to similarly mock this pattern but in their own 'language'. This would either start out being for fun or to attempt to make the light creature feel more familiar with the Ancestor, but either way, just as we use different Calls; it becomes a way to express our unique identity. Our unique personal Frequency. ❤️🕯️

[narrow marsh]

Exactly what I was just going for with my ramble, that's amazing!

[narrow marsh]

What do you mean? :V
About it being lore accurate?

[spiral vault]

My theory is that the Ancestors have calls of their own, but they don't use it to speak with us. They could possibly have different "dialects" depending on the realm. For example, a spirit from Isle could have a slightly different call than a spirit from Prairie

[rapid trail]

Cuz everyone is sky awhile ago can't merge with other servers leaving the sky kids alone ate Geyser, grandma and 8 person prairie door. And considering that everyone in this game are spirits and our skids are survivors

But it's a joke XD

I think about honks a way to communicate with the light creatures in sky. The bells are like speaker to communicate/call more to them.
Like when your call is similar to a light creature it calls back

[mild tapir]

Anyone having issues with the dailies today? I tried to report a bug but the bot is asking me so many questions I gave up!!! I just wanted to report that the mediation daily is not working!!

[nimble ingot]

It is best to ask in #questions-and-help
And the bot's questions are there to help make the report. It may not help the devs if someone reports X bug and they dont know how, why and if it can be replicated. Let alone attempt to fix said bug.

Besides, the questions are not that bad.
Best have your device name, model, version, and then the app's details (the build number and version).

[nimble ingot]

That, or see if other people have reported the bug, cross your fingers and hope TGC would fix it.

[mild tapir]

first of all I tried to fill in the bot questions, but all the icons are covering the model number and i do not know how to see them

[hushed steeple]

Ate enchantment guide’s food, got food poisoning.

Idea, darkstone can change color depending on the type of light infused into it.

Omg, I don’t think I told you that I have a bf now lol.

[nimble ingot]

congrats Esther

[hushed steeple]

Had the one year anniversary recently

Anywho, we know that darkstone can change color, but we don’t know why.
Theorize while I take a shower lol.

[nimble ingot]

I will simply rehash on an older observation based on concept art and ingame interactions.

• black/dark blue - Dormant (unpowered)
• glowing red - corrupted
• glowing yellow - charged/powered with Flame
• glowing blue - powered

In the game, colours have significance.

• blue/black - Ancestor (spirit, death, technology)
• yellow/orange - Flame (Light Energy)
• red - corruption
• white - purity (similar to Light, but perhaps a complimentary from of energy)

Then there are the elemental lights from Enchantment and Prophecy.

An older thoery stemmed from concept art where the forest temple potentially worked as a forge for the power diamonds. But to charge them up, it needed energy.
Looking at the mural on the door of the temple, one can see how the energy of trees (or the raw ore from the ground) combined with the energy of the jars from daylight prairie (which held butterflies and light orbs).

There is a ruined version in Wasteland, but given the state it is in. One could assume it worked similarly to that of the Forest Temple. Or it potentially had a different means of forging diamonds.
Sadly, there is not much to tell from the game itself. And while the concept art suggesting that mantas or trapped creatures to power the diamonds is still a possibility. The game cannot confirm this outright for us.
The most we have to work off with the concept art is the image of the creatures in cages, and the unfortunate sludge that became a by-product of the forge.
Which is connected to the Crabfield where pipes dump out the stuff.

As for other coloured diamonds.
The Eye of Eden is the other major example radiating chaos and destruction.
A crystal so powerful, it violently quakes, threatening to shatter at any moment.

It is seemingly trapped in its own cycle of torment. Frozen in a moment where anything in the immediate vicinity would be reduced to ashes.
I would want to touch on the King theory for a moment.
While we cannot see the infamous Eden Elder. The pattern of each realm has presented us meeting an elder at the end. Usually in their temples.
While Eden's is heavily damaged, it still holds some merit as the summit of the mountain, and being the final area we reach before moving on to the next realm.

It would be insane if the King themselves are somehow the one responsible for holding back time itself to undo the worst damage they caused.
Fighting back what is essentially a nuke for skykids to save the fallen. Children sent out into the Eye of the Storm and are trapped in stone husks much like that of the ancestors. Except that we never get to meet them in the same way as the ancestor spirits.
We dont get to hear their story, we dont get to see their memory. All we know is that we give back the light that we gathered and shepherded through the realms. The light that we use to soar in the skies freely becoming the key to these children's freedom.

Perhaps a final act of kindness from someone who has caused so much pain to the Sky Kingdom.

[hushed steeple]

There’s also purple dark stone seen in shared memories and also, I believe, in the final quest of Dreams around the coliseum, seemingly creating the whole light show going on there.

In the same general vein, but likely different, we have had other uniquely colored dark stones, namely during the Aurora concert.
In the arrow signs, there are tiny colored dark stones representing the four spirits of the season, being used in the sign to signify which ones are where.
This may likely be a cosmetic choice from the spirits rather than a product of their use, artificially colored for the looks.

So with the purple stones, we can assume those are infused with purple light, showing memories and creative creations, aligning with the purple light’s power of the mind and general creation maybe.

After hammering that nail down, I noticed a smaller nail in the nail, why then are the memory holding lanterns in the vault powered with blue dark stone? You would reasonably think that it should be purple if shared memories and light show crystals are purple. My hypotheses: maybe it’s because they were made in the game before the purple light was introduced, so it could be some sort of very rare instance of continuity error, or it’s something else entirely cuz TGC is usually very careful about these things. Then again, that last point would bring back the argument of why would spirits with capes have light wedges…

So I dunno.

Also, I wonder if the deer of nine colors has unique powers relating to those colors. Like, what if each color represented a different power.

Maybe that whole season was a metaphor for the kingdom of sky and the deer represented The Light.

Could it be possible to use the deer’s lights in dark stone? That would be interesting, and animal abusive.

Anywho, I wonder if the ancestors needed to use the darkstone to harness specific and refined abilities of the lights. That could mean that the light orbs we see are raw lights? Tho the enchantment spirits had no problem using them so there could be a version of even rawer light, like just the regular shmegular light that’s been causing the ambiance of the game already.

Also, something I haven’t seen talked about much(probably because I haven’t been here for years)is how the promotional art for enchantment shows the guide with pure white/veryyyyy light grey light.
Could they possibly still harness this light?

I point it out as different from the Lightseekers lights cuz those lights are more yellowish. Maybe they represent how the Lightseekers aren’t fully pure and good, but are definitely better than quite a few individuals and definitely care for the light in some sense.
I think the Lightseekers might be very grey characters with this interpretation.

[hushed steeple]

Must’ve blown everyone’s minds with my absolutely flawless and intelligent brain power!!!/joking

[random token]

Been thinking. Does anyone know what the Eden crystal is? I know in one of the trailers, a guy rises up in front of it. I just saw from a Sky COTL edit.

[nimble ingot]

The Guy in floating in front of the crystal is the rumoured Eden Elder (aka the King)

As far as I know, it is not quite certain what the crystal was used for exactly.
Other than making the area around it float, and or storing a lot of energy.

[humble zinc]

Well that crystal stores energy and it has beacon like beam.
I readed theory abt lore on google and it said it connects to megabird or something.
And yea... When Eden was likely "overcharged" or something (i forgor) King sacrificed himself to free spirits and eden just went kaboom 😀
||Yes i read those theories on google so i would know more abt sky 😀😀||

[humble zinc]

My brain is ain't brainin
Alef is prince
And resh is king
HOW IS THIS....
HOW AM I SUPPOST....
😀

I think he changed his name after coronation

[strange flare]

I thought the names are from concept art
and concept art may not end up in canon
So WAFO!
But a lot of people calls the elders by the name still, so headcanon?

[humble zinc]

Maybe

[strange flare]

I can't wait for TTE

[nimble ingot]

the concept names are just fanon, they are not canon at all.

People like to use these names as an alternate to "Elder of -" or "<realm> elder"

[humble zinc]

Well that's true 😀😀
I luv any type of names for elders 👍

[hushed steeple]

What if the Eden crystal was designed to interfere with the cycle of the light for the gain of the ancestors. Maybe as a means to take the light from creatures that are passing on, or siphon it from the light itself, or maybe even just as a means to cheat death.

It could maybe even be considered as some sort of energy generator with likely greater power than a nuclear power plant, which is why it ended up so dangerous and volatile at its end.

And the mural we see in the second half of Eden’s beginning area is the record of its grand introduction.

[hushed steeple]

My idea I just recently came up with:
the Eden crystal is now filled with completely corrupted light. Red light, that(from gathered clues)may be broken and trying to act like darkness, a nothingness, a lack of light. But because it doesn’t have the right form to act like darkness it’s become unpredictable, erratic, dangerous even.
If light can act as a form of technology then dark, corrupted light is kinda like getting a syntax error on your calculator, a “does not compute” message.

But I’m not entirely certain of this, part of it feels wrong, but this is what I’ve come up with using the information I have.

[spiral vault]

Same people, different ages, the names are unconfirmed

That's the quickest to explain it

[hushed steeple]

Performs the Addams Family Musical in Sky