lore-discussion-spoilers

[echo wadi]

following the theory that skykids aren’t organic creatures/man-made, wouldn’t it be interesting if they were specifically designed to be like that? Like what you said about pro-king ancestors possibly being exploitative of them, it would be much more convenient for skykids to be defenseless in case they escaped or fought back against their ancestors

not a theory, just a “what if”

[north bronze]

as fun as it is to think about, i believe descendants are organic creatures, since having been born from the Bird of Light ((aka "megabird") who created all organic life)

i think i've seen this theory before. that we are little robots/golems designed by the Ancestors. the author of the theory named us "Chuki" or something?

but yeah, if we were inorganic manmade beings, that would make a lot of sense that we were designed in such a way to ultimately contribute to their exploits

[strange flare]

there's something that bothers me when I'm in Eden

the statues we saved would shatter and child of light/spirit would be freed

And we die, out body turning into stone.
(Which also shatters in the end? could be a way for the game to not make a mess)

but it feels to me like we die, our body replacing the previous statues, until someone else would free us too, then we enter orbit.

It feels that way, while it probably isn't accurate

I want to hear other's opinion/how you view this process of reincarnation.

I'm curious how much is canon and how much is gameplay implementation

[north bronze]

"but it feels to me like we die, our body replacing the previous statues, until someone else would free us too, then we enter orbit."

it feels this way to me, too. it would make the most storytelling sense, even if in-game, no one comes to save our statue lol.
even when we die, and there are still others left in the Storm, we can spectate as little blue Wisps (but if another player reaches our statue, it can't be interacted with)

i feel like the quoted text above is how it happens thematically, but not in-game, just to keep things from being messy like you said (not everything has to match up with lore :p)

[rain frost]

this would slap as an au. i may have to make this. skykid revolution against the ancestors (it doesnt make sense but itd be cool)

[strange flare]

If we had to wait until someone free us it can take a long time

so it would be logical for devs to sort of skip that process

[north bronze]

basically yes lol

[strange flare]

I'd be interested teehee

[rain frost]

i'll let y'all know if i do haha

[north bronze]

do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 >:(

[rain frost]

i also like to think that maybe time isnt real in the void and thats why it seems like we dont have to wait for someone to save us. like, maybe we spend more time as an orb or a dark kid in the void than what is shown in the game. it doesnt fit with the whole "skykid statues cant be interacted with" thing but its my attempt at logic

[north bronze]

no i agree with you pretty much. "our statues can't be interacted with" is simply just a gameplay thing. there are 63 statues, ~16 ascended candles to earn, and if those numbers were altered from other players dying & adding to the statues, it wouldn't be a very balanced end-game between everyone

so it makes 100% sense for the void to be outside of time & space
(also worth considering that the golden child we hug after death contributes to the shattering of our statues/our ascension. this will be addressed in Two Embers)

[rain frost]

OOOH true, i cant wait to see how Two Embers portrays/explains it.

[rain frost]

this image still breaks my brain man bc its the first time we've seen the Unlit Child (ourselves in the game) and the Light Child (wl/king/whatever) actually look different from each other. theyre not both bald, theyre likely different people entirely, and thats so insane and exciting to me

[north bronze]

looks like a Desccendant/Skyid to me

[north bronze]

my thoughts are that it's Prince/King/Dawn Star, and the glowing child is Stewie/the girl/Golden Star, and they merge to create the first Descendant

but that side view on the glowing child looks so much like the Default Descendant hairstyle...it's so hard to make out in 480p!

[rain frost]

yeah defs! i think i'd seen ppl posting a pic of that front-facing where we can see its the hair of the other main child from the series (Hopeful Steward)
also that would be incredible if they create the first descendant, tho idk how it would jive with the idea of megabird purposely sending us,,,

[north bronze]

yeah true, i do prefer it over the "we're all fragments of the prince" theory, but they both jive hard

[real mortar]

How do we see this?

[strange flare]

ok this is what's interesting to me

||After Eden we are the unlit child, we walked/stumbling (the legs looks like it was limping as they walk) to the lit up child, and help them up, before then the "Lost & Found" hug would happen ||

[north bronze]

looking for Two Embers on youtube, i think it's still there, under a Spanish youtube channel

[winged bison]

someone posted a video of it already here haha

[winged bison]

also, quite cool to see this as in game it's the lit up child that's the one who's sitting down, while the unlit one is standing up and approaches. Vice Versa between the game and show

[hallow pilot]

Ain't that the long haired child? From the teaser trailer? The one with the manathee?

[brave patio]

The longer hair makes it look almost like the second child (with the manatee) in two embers

[north bronze]

i guess you'll both have to WAFO, i already said it looks like a descendant OR Golden Star

-an edit:
literally what i said directly after the message you both replied to:
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[north bronze]

oh? so i won't get in trouble? neat

[winged bison]

Yeah, a mod reacted to the one that was sent ages ago so it's okay as far as I am aware. But make sure to spoiler it and say it has spoiler elements in that trailer, just in case
it's basically just an extended trailer of a previous one

[north bronze]

well, i've already been making sure to spoiler-warning most of the things i post, plus these trailers begin with a black screen

for good measure

man, people were asking me to send them/provide where to find these trailers, and i've been trying to be careful not to get myself into trouble by sharing the info...turns out it's okay in the end? jeez

[north bronze]

honestly, though, i'm really happy to see ||that the manatee has a harness for its wing/fin. i thought that this was going to be one of those "we make you get attached to the main characters injured pet, and we kill it off/make it sacrifice itself to save the child after turning into a krill" type of TV-tropes =_=||

[north bronze]

& @hallow pilot
i wouldn't say it's too much of a stretch to say that it could be either Golden Star, or the First Descendant

we'll just have to see for the series itself, but the hair shape is right there
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[celest birch]

Moth ...

[north bronze]

moth? me? oh definitely not

[north bronze]

i started playing before 9 coloured deer 😉

[celest birch]

Same. 🤭 🤭 And with "moth", I meant hair here. :,D

Would be both appropriate and kind of funny if the first glow-kid would have moth hairstyle.

[north bronze]

honestly i really do think it's Golden Star/Stewie, but it's so hard to make it out in the trailers, and it would be very cool to see a Descendant in the series (i feel like the first Descendant would have the default/moth hair, it only makes sense :p)

[north bronze]

egg on my face

[celest birch]

Mhm, we shall see.

In the meantime, for some darkstone-lore enthusiasts, the biggest darkstone ore in Preaks, size comparison (only mind that my Skykid is like 2 units taller than a chibi aka smoooolll x3). Given how someone discovered a smaller diamond inside the Diamond of Eden in the Shattering memory ...

[north bronze]

worth noting that there are 2 types of raw darkstone ore; crystals, and chunks

re-posted because the image was far too small

[celest birch]

Interesting how chunks kind of look like crystals without tops.

[north bronze]

to me they look like ordinary stone or rock, whereas the crystals are mineral shaped

[celest birch]

Almost seems like they´re a Sky version of quartz, which can be found as a mineral inside plain rocks (volcanic rocks, that is) and as plain crystals.

[north bronze]

it's funny you should say that! apparently it's more of a "blue jade" type of material

...or "Translucent" jade...idk why, my memory remembers it saying blue jade. huh

[long vessel]

I haven't looked around to see if this is true or not, but is the only place we see chunks in Treasure Reef/underwater? Is it possible they form in chunks due to the environment in which they grow?

[celest birch]

Which is even better because jade (or its base form, jadeite) is a metamorphic rock and apparently really rare. :D

[north bronze]

i couldn't tell you without exploring the Kingdom myself with that intent in mind

right off of assumption i'll say sure, Treasure Reef is the only place where darkstone chunks are found

just like how crystals are only found in P.Peaks i spose

[celest birch]

Both of which do imply that not only is the Kingdom having an interesting geological history, but also that Mountain of Eden is an actual volcano.

Bold of the King to literally build a whole city at its peak, even if by this time it might be seen as a dead volcano when it comes to geological point-of-view.

[north bronze]

tbh it was bold of him to split himself into billions of skykids, making sure that he is technically the only living person in his kingdom, he is the only person who can power darkstone technology with his new candle ability

i'm still salty over the confirmation of that theory. can't believe i'm just some evil world-destroying man reincarnated

is Sky CotL a "redemption story" or is it just some evil king who killed everyone, destroyed his world, and made himself reborn so that he is the only person left with access to anything

[celest birch]

You´re a part of the evil world-destroying man and honestly, it´s meant to be a redemption story, as we players do put our Skykids into Eden knows what situations including weekly trips right into death.

Which is probably something he didn´t expect when he sacrificed his light, haha!

[north bronze]

i don't know if much redemption can be made after destroying your whole world & killing everyone in it, to be honest

"b-but i didnt mean it i was cowwupted, pwease fowgive me gives an Eden-hug"

YOU STILL KILLED EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE, ALEF

[celest birch]

Definitely puts an entire new spin to the last quest of the 9-Colored Deer. 🤭

[north bronze]

i mean who is he trying to redeem himself to? the spirits of the people he directly or indirectly murdered, or the skykids (i.e himself)? guy is a maniac, and i hate him

-an edit: what i meant by this, is that there is no one left in his Kingdom to redeem himself to; only fragments of himself in the form of Descendants (what an ego), and the spirits of Ancestors, who have already ascended/moved on/become at peace

[celest birch]

I´m certain it´s either himself or the rumored Megabird and he´s not doing a good job at that, given what his destiny as Skykid is, which, like said before, smells like both penance and Karmic Retribution.

Returning back to the place he used to rule from and govern all, only to be snuffed like just like the rest of the Lost Ones ...

... by what he has made himself. All his own fault and he can never ever take it back.

[celest birch]

😆 Why am I imagining him sounding like this as a mere kid-shaped shell of himself aka the dark-child?

[north bronze]

pwease miss/mr skykid fowgive me 🥺

i've seen people pointing out that our Friend Constellation table is crown-shaped (and compare it to the crown shape it used to be, too), but i haven't seen anyone point out that it's literally the shape of Resh's Star-shaped crown

[celest birch]

Oh absolutely and this is if you decide to start arranging friend-stars into constellations. :) This one is the very first.

[north bronze]

i mean 😐

it's just that no one (that i've seen, in here or online generally) has pointed out that it's literally his star shape, and not just any old crown shape

[boreal hare]

this reminds me of how, well, I think it was only in beta (not current beta, but like, light awaits basically?) but idk cuz i haven't seen it again, there was a constellation that was quite literally a crown (but I think everyone here already knows that?)

[celest birch]

Like the crown constellation we see at the end of Vault Elder cutscene where all Elders bow to us (like we´re the King)?

[north bronze]

yaz (source - google images)

[boreal hare]

nope, im reffering what lil elf just sent ^^

[north bronze]

actually - compare that image to the crown in the vault! they're the same! the stars line up and all :D

*i could have just looked for an image and sent it instead of saying that :T

[boreal hare]

oh? : O didnt notice that, havent watched the vault cutscenes in forever lolz,

[north bronze]

source - google images :]

[boreal hare]

ooooooo, yeah ive never seen it before, interesting. Apologies for my mistake

[north bronze]

no no it's an easy mistake to make :p

[celest birch]

Since I´m at Starlight Desert, here´s something interesting regarding its spirits:
-> image above: giant refined darkstone on the spines of giant books
-> Narcissist´s place is literally a smaller version of the Coliseum, down to its side-lining statues

[north bronze]

oh this is my mistake, this is post-orbit, just before the rebirth door...oopsies

the Vault is such a weird realm/building. it's supposed to be a tower with a central elevator, but as the floors get higher, the space seemingly does, too. it seems to get more open with it's own "inside sky" sort of thing, whereas the bottom floors are regular rooms, regular corridors, structurally sensible

[boreal hare]

unrelated, but I saw you guys talking earlier about the fact that skykids, if hunted, would probably be unable to protect themselves but to that I say that it depends. According to concept art (which isnt a credible source, but i havent seen anything contradicting this specific one ingame yet), ancestors cant touch flames so Skykids in groups could probably overpower them a bit, using their candles, especially if they put em together. Plus, firework sticks would maybe also work if fireworks could physically interact with the ancestors, and im guessing they only dont interact with creatures and such ingame for the sake of performance. (My god i cant spell)

Plus, i doubt that skykids are 'weak', considering what we go through in Eden, and how long we can stand against flying debris hitting us.

[celest birch]

Journey glyphs?

[boreal hare]

oo, perhaps (gonna find all the journey emojis i have rq to compare)

seems like some are similar and some r completely new, i think its just a coincidence.

[north bronze]

i haven't seen anything about Ancestors being unable to touch flame, but in each of their cutscenes (especially Forest Mama, but exceptvalley twins) they interact with the flame. Forest Mama specifically grabs it from us using her hands

as for the firework staves, those were part of a discussion in the past where we speculated that the light produced from them could be harmless, since the Ancestors used to be able to harness & manipulate light magic
we could probably bonk them with the staves lol

regarding us being weak or not, we seem to be at our most powerful after we've already died, when we're glowing with golden light
however, we're pretty easily brought to weakness by simply removing our ability to recharge our light, and putting us next to something that absorbs it (polluted water, or darkstone)
granted, we are able to fly directly into solid walls without so much as a scratch, but i've personally always chalked that down to gameplay mechanics, since we don't really have a healthbar that indicates physical damage. i'm willing to bet we are physically weak, just like regular children, but we are sturdy enough to withstand physical blows to a degree. only being at our strongest when we're overcharged with golden light

[strange flare]

I don't know the final quest, can you give me a summary?

[boreal hare]

Ah, I should start rewatching more cutscenes all good points, maybe im getting a bit rusty at this lol.

[north bronze]

if megabird is so big, then why won't she fight me?

check and mate, universe

[boreal hare]

Well, depending on what theories (specifically, aurora is megabird theory) you believe in, she could technically fight you

[north bronze]

lol good point 😂

[boreal hare]

Though, the real question then is, would you win?

[north bronze]

i'm a girl, i ALWAYS win.

wait, so is Aurora

[boreal hare]

Honestly, maybe theres a chance we could do it, but we'd have to think about megabirds abilities in this situation. Can she insta-ascend us? Take away our light? Bonk us to outer space?

[celest birch]

9-Colored Deer, you, Herb Gatherer, crab, manta and jellyfish VS loads of Krill. You win.

[strange flare]

My mind has given me a mental image of Megabird as our Mama bird

get bonked by mama bird

we'll be grounded

[north bronze]

it's actually confusing what her abilities are. we know she can create life and provide light, she can regurgitate souls and recycle them back onto the world, but she can be weakened when enough people are "indifferent" (non-believers)

and @strange flare i always refer to her as Mother Bird, or Bird of Light. just seems so much more motherly than "Megabird" (sounds like a 6 year old created that name)

[boreal hare]

this reminds me of that one gif someone made where im pretty sure its megabird slapping alef into the void.. i have the gif but im not gonna post it w/o the creators perms so💀

[strange flare]

I WANT TO SEE THAT

[boreal hare]

if i find the creators user I'll tell u lol and then u can search 4 it

[celest birch]

What.

[boreal hare]

hmm, I mean, actually, about that insta-ascension theory, if we believe in megabird is aurora, then technically that is one of her abilities, considering the ending of the concert. But also, I'm not sure if it was actual orbit, or just a projection.

[north bronze]

i think that was just a projection, since it didn't count as a proper death/rebirth

[boreal hare]

thats a leftover easter egg from light awaits, lolz

[celest birch]

Sorry for derailing so many theory topics, everyone! 😅

Hmm, I then wonder how come we can still gather wax from spirits there. 🤔

[north bronze]

good point...we still don't die or ascend or do anything that officially counts as a weekly rebirth. maybe uhh idk Sky CotL is a magical world and i don't have an explanation for everything

[boreal hare]

Its fine, I do thay a lot too lol. But yeah, I do wonder. What counts as a proper ascension/rebirth, then? Do we need to reach the specific area with the door? Or maybe aurora dragged us into orbit to shoe it, then dragged us out, menaing that she can possibly interrupt ascensions too? (Please ignore my awful spelling)

[celest birch]

Now I wish to see someone crazy enough to go to Eden and attend an AURORA concert in a single day. :D

[celest birch]

What was that thing supposed to be in Light Awaits if I can ask? Something like the jars in current game?

[north bronze]

we'd need to actually die (lose all of our light, then our flame, and then lose every single WL we own)
and then hug ourselves in the "punishment room", fly through Eden, fly through Orbit, go into the afterlife/rebirth room, collect our Asc Candles, and head through the door

only when we die and go back to our base WL number is when it counts

[north bronze]

i'll do it, it's sunday & Eden is easy as pie

all i need is my bf to come back get me into the concert 😂

[boreal hare]

Good question. I think it was reminiscent of those, yeah. I actually have some links to LA pictures and stuff so maybe that could explain it? I'll find the link for the LA vault

https://imgur.com/a/sky-beta-history-vault-McjDeo4 got the link

I could also try to look in the prarie and wasteland galleries, because idk, golden wasteland -> golden jar, prarie -> butterfly jars

[north bronze]

huh 😐

[north bronze]

i would so love for the Light Awaits capes to make a return. I read that the reason they were replaced by solid colours, was because the textures/patterns on the cape were far too demanding of the (small at the time) game.

but now we have all sorts of cape varieties, with many little details that definitely surpass the likes of Light Awaits capes. it would just be so nice to see them make a comeback. they look so good

[boreal hare]

Yeah, well, i mean, i feel like a close thing were gonna get is the wireframe cape for 5th anni? I know its meant to show off more like, polys and stuff, but i suppose its kinda similar? Not exact, though.

[north bronze]

nyehhh i guess, the Light Awaits capes just look so much more avian. with patterns that distinguish a bird's tail & whatnot. just very pleasing to look at

[celest birch]

Deal! And honestly, I´d do that as well if I´d have the Wings.

[boreal hare]

Good point. I mean, I feel like if we tried hard enough, we could feedback the capes back into existence? /hj

[north bronze]

maybe, it's happened with other items in the past

[celest birch]

Managed to get a bit clearer shadows and yeah, it looks like a bulky extinguished Skykid.

[north bronze]

if you want a clearer image, the clearest i can get on my own shadow is in Sanctuary Islands, Geyser

-an edit:i'm playing my instrument though so i'm not gonna go adventuring for pics sorry

[celest birch]

Thanks and no worries, I´m doing so because 1, wlr and 2, why not explore stuff to speculate about? 🤭 Speaking of which, Crown constellation in the cutscene (couldn´t get it without it starting to morph into the image, sorry).

Friendship constellations in order:
-> Crown
-> Umbrella
-> Mantas
-> Harp
-> Tombstone
-> Crabs

[north bronze]

huh, i don't have/can't see Tombstone and Crab. the final two constellations for me are...nothing. just loose stars, without any shape or structure

[north bronze]

also for some reason, my Switch no longer uploads to Twitter? and my USB stopped letting me transfer files from my Switch to my laptop recently (faulty cable i think), so if i post any images, it's bound to be bad-phone quality until i get my issues fixed

-ANOTHER edit: if you choose the Proud Victor stance, you can make out the shape a little clearer

[cold sparrow]

Nintendo stopped supporting Twitter, as did most consoles I think

[north bronze]

yowch, that was my last-ditch approach to uploading...thanks for confirming though, that saves a headache

[celest birch]

I have both and I can see the shadowy images behind them showing what are they supposed to be. Tombstone is clear, but Crabs? Yeeaaa, I´d never guess ...
... and yes, kind of morbid that one of the friend constellations is a tombstone if you ask me. :,D

[north bronze]

i wish i could see it. i wonder why they don't show for me...just...2 baseless constellations

i have everything else though: crown, brolly, manta, harp

[celest birch]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sky-children-of-the-light/images/3/3e/Favorite-friend-constellation-05.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20220524055612

[north bronze]

here in Aurora's memory in the Underground Caverns - Forest, we can see both crystal and chunk forms of raw darkstone

[long vessel]

Interesting, thanks!

Also - just throwing this out there because I don't know if there's more info somewhere, I noticed we get light/wax from hugging Hopeful Steward. I haven't noticed getting it from interacting with other spirits, but I'm not sure who all to try with. It could be relevant to their part in the grander scheme of things, or it could be nothing lol, idk

[north bronze]

i mean, i could be wrong after looking at it more to circle them out, but

blue - chunks
red - crystals

i might be wrong though

[north bronze]

wax?! i haven't noticed this!
however, we can hug any spirit/guide that gives us the option to, and it will recharge our light/cape (same works with friends (and high-fives))
wax though?!? i've never seen Stewie give me wax. i'll have to try tomorrow once my candle metre resets!

[long vessel]

I'm planning to go back and do it after grandma/shard today. I did it yesterday and noticed the smallest sliver of wax, but I need to try again when I first start with full chevrons so I can actually see how much it is.

[sinful crystal]

Confirmed where?
I thought the skids were a new descendant race sent by distressed megabird to help restore light to the world

[north bronze]

i thought (and still choose to) think this way, too.

but the majority of people seem to want the "we're fragments of the king" theory to be the case, as uninspired as that idea is.

it was supposedly "confirmed" by being in the official artbook - but we know that early concepts are always changed and scrapped. (#lore-discussion-spoilers message)

there is unconfirmed, but still speculated hints throughout the game, too. for example, our friend constellation being the literal shape of King Resh's crown (#lore-discussion-spoilers message)

[north bronze]

in my opinion, the idea that we are a completely new era of "sky human" is much better than us just being reincarnated fragments of 1 evil man

for a game about expressing yourself & your individuality, this particular theory/canon completely contradicts it...how am i gonna be able to express myself if i'm really just someone else?

[north bronze]

tl;dr i agree & "us being the prince" is bad writing

[sinful crystal]

I don't think the resh constellation serves as evidence of a connection of us to them, considering that there are also constellations of an umbrella, mantas, harp, gravestone, and crabs, too it probably just signifies significance to the sky world in general and not us beings specifically

[north bronze]

one can only hope, but interpretations do be getting interpreted

i await Two Embers with baited breath. i need this theory to be wrong. i need it to be.

[sinful crystal]

This is disappointing
They mention cycling light through Earth and the sky world, as depicted in concept as a scrapped concept iirc, so I'm willing to disregard this as "explaining ideas from development and not the current concrete storyline"

[cold sparrow]

Two Embers will probably shed some more light on that theory.
I personally wouldn't consider it bad writing. It can be quite compelling if done right.
And Skykids being fragments of another being, be it Resh or Megabird, doesn't necessarily predetermine anything about them. They're a blank state, here to make new memories, new selves, to discover and rediscover themselves.
If that's not to your taste, that's fine.

[sinful crystal]

I feel like knowing they're reincarnations of the king makes it difficult to imagine them as blank slates, hence why I'm opposed to the idea
Like how certain people thought the Knight in Hollow Knight was a reincarnation of the Pale King, with the exact same purpose as here, to save the fallen kingdom of its previous incarnate
Canonically, the Knight is its own vessel (and "child"/creation of the Pale King) and having its own story feels much more impactful than "whoops, destroyed the world, gotta make things right"

[north bronze]

the thing is, if we were fragments of the Bird of Light, that's different. that's literally god - that's how every organic living being is made.
but if we're fragments of the king? that's not creative...our skykid isn't their own person. we're just TGC's villain character but with extra steps
i would say it's bad writing in the sense that it's supposed to be a "redemption story" - but how can one be redeemed after destroying everything that exists? his world, his people, everything is gone. only he is left, in the form of his new descendant reincarnation. only he has access to the world, the technology...and the spirits that are left? of course they'll forgive him! they're dead, ascended, at peace. that's easy mode of redemption right there..

as for the blank slate thing, that's not necessarily true if you already know the theory. i can't really think of my skykid as her own individual anymore, since that King theory will always be in the back of my head. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

[sinful crystal]

Oh lil Elf noob you phrased it perfectly

[north bronze]

i've hate this theory since i was a lil moth >:(

[cold sparrow]

Fair enough.
I find it easy enough to still consider the Skykids a blank slate. Your own thing to fill with meaning. They may just be a fragment of a feeling, a memory. A spark of long forgotten childish innocence. A memory of passion. A feeling of excitement. A part of 'human' essence, distilled to its barest parts.
If you cut a painting into a million pieces, you'd end up with bits and pieces that don't much resemble the painting anymore. Only snippets of red or blue or green. And you can take that piece and imagine a new painting around it.

[north bronze]

but it still comes from the same painting, though

and if that painting destroyed the entire world, then chopped itself up into a million pieces, made itself into new paintings, and asked for forgiveness because it's not the same painting that destroyed the world, i STILL wouldn't forgive it

[cold sparrow]

Except he's not asking for forgiveness. Or is that what you see in Sky?

[sinful crystal]

Speaking of new descendant race, wasn't resh/alef the first sky kid?

[north bronze]

it's a "redemption story", he's seeking to be redeemed
we can get into the specifics or we can talk about the thing that matters

[north bronze]

supposedly according to game lore, murals and many other sources yez. i wouldn't mind if he somehow contributed the birthing of our race, as opposed to just fragmenting himself

i have my own little speculation about Two Embers that i've mentioned a few times, where i think in the "punishment room", Prince & Stewie will merge (eden-hug) and create the first Descendant. but this is just my head and i'm probably wrong

[north bronze]

i don't really like this theory either, but i like it a heck of a lot more than the prince splitting himself into billions of light souls

*edit: it gives us Descendants a kind of mother & father entities

[sinful crystal]

Redemption story could also be about reviving the world, redeeming yourself through your actions without consciously seeking it
I oppose the theory not because I detest the king, but because it's difficult to imagine my sky kid, or anyone else's sky kid for that matter, as its own being once you know

[north bronze]

i oppose the theory for both of those reasons, and the "nature" side of things; us being created and sent to the world by the actual god of the universe. just makes more sense to me, for an entire species to be born this way

i wonder who's really to blame, though. the prince, or the Cave of Prophecies for doing such a bad job at prophecizing the end of their world LOL oops

[north bronze]

before anyone gets all serious and "uhm acktually" on me, this is meant to be seen as a joke

[sinful crystal]

Mm yeah, I'm much more willing to accept the idea that resh was so powerful and by "sacrifice themself to share light back into the skies," it was them going "hoo boy I've really messed this world up, it's time to self destruct" and the light that came out of them was simply a result of their power, like a star's explosion
And megabird then infused those inanimate light particles/fragments with a soul to create its new creature
If you remove all personalisation from it, I find it much easier to accept. Because you're no longer a reincarnation of this person

Makes more sense with "descendants of light" methinks

[north bronze]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message:

"-the prince/king supposedly sacrificed himself by splitting his light and putting it back into the world in the form of descendants
-the game (and most other sources) state that the bird of light sent us to the world

i'm willing to justify that the king returned his light to the stars (the light, the bird of light, the megabird), and the bird recycled his light into the descendants; i.e the soul cycle"

yeah it was my justification, too :p

i still don't like it!!!!

[sinful crystal]

Omg same hat

[north bronze]

the only thing i'm wondering at the moment from all of this...

the Bird of Light sent us to the world in despair, centuries after the world had ended by Resh's hand

i wonder what was happening in the soul-cycle, and in the prince/king's perspective within these supposed hundreds-of-years. it just seems like an awfully long time between eras -- i would think that it would take 100 years at most for his soul to recycle into the Descendant race...not centuries

[sinful crystal]

If this is a matter of "how did the king last so long," I'd be willing to say they became so powerful a being as to transcend the need to rebirth so early on

[sinful crystal]

My question is if resh was the first sky kid, where does steward play in all of this?
Lots of steward-resh questions but I'm sure they'll be answered by the new animation lol

Perhaps the reason why megabird created an entire population of sky kids after Resh was the first was because of how evidently powerful the they were/could become, so she created more of the same race thinking they'd be the most capable of fixing things

[north bronze]

current canon:

1. the Ancestors lived in the clouds
2. the Elders and Prince fell from the stars at the same time
3. the Elders were made leaders of each realm,the Prince undertook the elemental trials of prophecy
4. the prince was made prince/ruler (he wasn't a prince beforehand)
5. Elders, Ancestors and Descendants are all their own separate species

with this in mind, it would seem that the Prince is either a part of the Elder Race, or he is infact the first Skykid, and i can't explain why he'd arrive at the same time as the Elders if they aren't the same race. but all evidence points to him being some form of Skykid (i like to think of him as some kind of inbetween/progenitor)

i can not answer your question about where Stewie comes into this

[brave patio]

Yeah and the atoms inside us came from other humans, animals, dinosaurs, etc

Doesn’t mean I’m responsible for the crimes of a dinosaur or am accountable for the actions of a raccoon

Certainly doesn’t MAKE me the dinosaur

I feel like skykids are the same way - made from the last of the King’s soul as a way to undo the harm he caused (not necessarily to gain forgiveness, we’ll have to wait for two embers for specifics ig)

Honestly it’s an interesting concept to play with with our Sky OCs - could we maybe have scraps of the memories of the King? Do spirits see his light in us?

I’m guessing that winged light is also a part of the King’s soul, just without a physical form of sentience

[north bronze]

"could we maybe have scraps of the memories of the King? Do spirits see his light in us?" - exactly, we could still be a tangible part of the King rather than our own individual people. this is the issue and you addressed it yourself

*to address your comment on atoms:
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[brave patio]

Except I really don’t think we are

[sinful crystal]

Also...I'm pretty sure resh uses they/them pronouns

[north bronze]

isn't he a Prince and a King?

no offense but i dont wanna bring gender politics into my little fantasy safespace, i will continue to refer to male titles as He/hims, and female titles as she/hers

[brave patio]

Just because we may have parts of him in us doesn’t mean we’re the same person or don’t have free will

Everything in game points to skykids having free will

And also we are never shown in game to have any memories from someone else - when we begin, someone else literally has to explain stuff to us

Also for the king’s pronouns: early development had the devs usually using he/him, I think that was used in talks about two embers as well. The devs did say however that the elders don’t really have a concept of gender

The thing about us maybe having scraps of king / other past life memories was more for creative writing ideas

[sinful crystal]

The discussion's been had before but I'm not so great at explaining things myself, essentially Prince and King are used as gender neutral terms here, and apart from those titles, they're still referred to as "child" and with they/them pronouns, like in this art of sky quote #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[north bronze]

as i said earlier, the information that we are fragments of the king is still in the back of my head, and therefore, I can no longer see my skykid as a unique indiviual anymore because of this

[north bronze]

well, as isopod said, early versions he was a "he"

and also, Jenova Chen stated himself that the Two Embers is about a boy and a girl

i'll give you three guesses which one is the Prince :p

[strange flare]

alright important questions that I need answers to

Have any of the ancestors/spirits honk?
Or is this special to us child of light and other light creatures?

[north bronze]

we learn specific honks from Ancestors, who are known as [animal] whisperer - caretakers and trainers for light creatures

[junior basin]

Guys did you notice that not a single spirit can fly?

[brave patio]

When did he use she/her pronouns for the other kid?

[strange flare]

So far I have not seen a spirit physically honk unless it is in orbit

[north bronze]

translated from one of the Spanish channels that posted Trailer 1 and Trailer 2

[junior basin]

Grandma honk

[sinful crystal]

Early versions say "he," current versions say "they," I assume the latter is more credible than the other

[junior basin]

And some other spirit's at the village

[north bronze]

still a king, i'm still calling him he. i said that i don't want to bring gender politics into my little fantasy game, so i will continue to refer to him as a he.

he's very clearly male-coded, to say the least

[sinful crystal]

Sorry, but please do not call this "gender politics."

[brave patio]

In English they didn’t use pronouns for the second kid, that one seems to be the original

And what “gender politics” lol

[north bronze]

it totally is gender politics. and i'm not here for it. i'm here for lore. i'm not the one that began this particulara topic.

[brave patio]

Well the lore is that the elders don’t have a concept of gender and that the king very well be similar

[north bronze]

so which is it? the king is an elder or a skykid?

[sinful crystal]

Respecting humans of a particular gender as much as you do those of another gender has nothing to do with politics.

[north bronze]

we're talking about a species of fantasy people; not real life humans. respect is out of the question when the people aren't even real.

[wispy flax]

Sorry to step in but consider that some languages have more use of genders for nouns than others, or less "non -gender" terms as some people may perceive. So sometimes translation may require more words to express the same, without implying a specific gender.

[brave patio]

TGC even uses they/them pronouns for most of the spirits! Pre-launch, TGC used he, she, and they pronouns for spirits

And since the king is probably a skykid, and skykids don’t have a biological gender…

[north bronze]

and since king has "king" in his title......

[brave patio]

He/they could very well be someone without a biological gender who uses he/him pronouns or masculine titles without using masculine pronouns

[north bronze]

listen guys, i really don't care. it's a game. i'm going to refer to the spirits as what i view them to be coded as.

you're making a bigger deal out of this than it needs to be, instead of discussing lore.

this is nitpicking & calling out for the sake of nitpicking & calling out.

i'm fully aware that skykids and elders and even ancestors are officially they-thems. but guess what? i refer to them as what I view them as, because it's a fantasy game, and it's not that deep. move on and start talking about lore

[north bronze]

please, gosh.

[wispy flax]

Please, people...calm down. Take a deep breath, Let all this cool down and let's move to another topic, please.

[junior basin]

Yeah So as i was saying i had noticed that only sky kids (player's)have the ability to fly even though some i saw that some spirit have one wing only but it seems like even with the that wing they can not fly

[north bronze]

all (or most) Ancestors have only 1 star on their back/cape
it is established that they infact can not fly, and we are the only ones with that ability.

which begs the question, what about the prince? he's a (edit - maybe)skykid. he has a cape in the murals and in the trailers. i wonder if he can fly

[junior basin]

Fr i was wondering about that too

[north bronze]

someone pointed out a couple of months ago something i didn't notice too, that the Hopeful Steward has a chest cavity like we do (you need to look a little closely to see it)

[junior basin]

Oh i didn't know that

I was thinking that flying is only for sky kids but spirit were sky kids ether didn't they?

[bitter topaz]

hey y'all

[sinful crystal]

[north bronze]

no no, spirits/Ancestors are different, we are Descendants. completely different race of people

[junior basin]

Aren't the a growing up sky kids?

But there died now because the war that happened?

[north bronze]

nooo, the Ancestors lived in the lands in the clouds, and apparently the Elders (& prince) fell from the stars one day and were made leaders of each realm

then waaaayyyy later, after a bunch of stuff happened (everyone died too), we were sent down as a new race of "human" but with the abilty to fly and control flame

so, Ancestors, Elders, and Descendants(skykids) - all different species

[junior basin]

Ohh i get it now

I was wondering why we didn't see ant spirit's at the two embers trailer

That what made me think that spirit's were alive before war

[north bronze]

well......

we see some of the ones that are ingame, but they aren't spirits yet :p

well i gotta go to the store. boy i sure am glad that the controversial topic was moved on from & i don't have to deal with it again tonight :)

[junior basin]

Alright it was nice chatting with ya

I wonder why didn't we met any character who wasn't dead

Like isn't there any survivors

[hallow pilot]

So much time passed that prob they eventualy all died.

I mean they probably didn't have that much ressources after the corruption of the diamond. Plus all the climate change it produced probably altered the ecosistems so much that there was no food. And theres a high chance that survivors where very far away from each other to meet and reproduce (if it goes that way, of megabird shut down the ancestor production).

[bitter topaz]

Thanks for pinging us! We will be reviewing the conversation

[versed mirage]

It could also just be there cause the game won’t render capes if they don’t have the star.

[waxen ermine]

Had a thought, the ancestors lived and dressed colorfully
I wonder if the elders dressed colorfully

[north bronze]

starts here #lore-discussion-spoilers message

ends here #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[versed mirage]

Probably not, cause you can see what they’re wearing in their memories. Which wish we could buy that clothing cause it looks cool.

[spiral vault]

This is true, they're one of the few creatuers who couldn't

[spiral vault]

The one wing is a graphical bug unfortunately

[north bronze]

ohhhh interesting, a little gutting, but interesting! I always assumed that 1 star meant they could "jump" and nothing else 🤣

[north bronze]

idk why i put 'jump' in quotation marks. i meant the literal sense of the word hah

[plush cave]

Hello lore friends , the conversation has moved on but we want to clarify something about an earlier discussion:

The story of Sky and its characters are deliberately designed to be open to interpretation. TGC does not state where spirits belong on the gender spectrum, meaning we welcome all interpretations of players about Sky spirits, elders and characters.

It is completely up to the player to make the Sky world their own and form their experience in the game. Sky experiences differ greatly, which means you will come across varying perspectives. Discussion is welcomed as long as these perspectives are expressed in a respectful way.

Sagomay’s message about Sky characters and gender in-game is pinned here too, but for reference: #lore-discussion-spoilers message. Worth the read!

I will remove some of the earlier messages; the number one rule here is to be kind and respectful and this rule applies to discussion about in-game characters as well.

Thank you all for the reports!

[north bronze]

amazing, have a wonderful rest of your day/night, Sof

[north bronze]

this would be best for all parties involved, i feel like all 3 of us had our safe spaces attacked even if unintended. ty

[spiral vault]

Maybe they had different outfits, and the memory one is just their final one

Or a fun idea, since we know they all went to Eden to stop the diamond, maybe their outfits are gray because it's covered with eden ash

[grizzled vector]

Do we know that? The original spirits have graves in the realms. Presumably they were made before everyone died

The season spirits don't seem to have them, but they also aren't covered in ash

[spiral vault]

the Elders, I mean

[brave patio]

Maybe TGC didn’t feel like coloring the models in lol

[brave patio]

Alright I’ve got a general lore timeline that I’ve pieced together:

• a long time ago, the Light was abundant and honored as sacred. Ancestors had ancient traditions (passage rituals?) and the temples may have been constructed as part of this. Soul cycle is key to the Light, the ancestors seem to be those who remain on the ground and guide the soul cycle. Life seems semi-nomadic, they aren’t structured into a kingdom yet
• either prince + elders fall from sky, or they are normal civilians (perhaps all civilians fall from sky? Prince seems to be the only one with a chest light however). Prince discovers how to harness the power of light, it’s possibly the prophecy trials have something to do with this but idk. They are crowned for this, civilians who discovered it with them become elders and they use this power to establish a kingdom
• they draw souls and light away from the soul cycle, which causes the void to take the place of light and slowly spread throughout the realms. This corrupts and “possesses” light creatures, wasteland elder fights them
• mentions of war against light creatures, concept timeline has prince being crowned king after this
• vault elder is an oracle and sees this coming, tries to safeguard history and knowledge in vault
• forest temple turned into factory
• there also seem to be protests against this harnessing and stealing the light, wasteland elder crushes them
• it seems the shattering diamond is positioned to draw light directly from the migration path. Referred to as “final display of hubris”
• elders and king realize they are going down the wrong path. End of trailer seems to show void closing in on eden. Void causes sky to collapse (stars falling in Aurora concert)
• king sacrifices self to release the trapped light back into the sky kingdom. This seems to hold back the void but also causes shattering Diamond to explode??? Because now it’s clearly exploded. It looks like that final act destroyed Eden and created a storm

Information is from two embers trailers, Sky art book pictures, in-game stuff, etc. very rough outline sorry that it’s so messy

If anyone thinks things are wrong or has stuff to add constructive criticism is welcomed

[celest birch]

With that turn of events, I now wouldn't be surprised if the Diamond of Eden took all of the void into itself once the light from King's sacrifice was released back into the skies, turning it this vile red we know it as and causing it to explode for the first time, completely destroying the City of Eden and creating the permanent void-based storm. @brave patio

And given how its Shard Eruptions affect all areas of Sky when it's in its pre-eruption/mid- eruption phase, this would answer why would the introduction to the game in Isle of Dawn say that "our kingdom shattered".

A bit of an interesting tidbit, but us giving away our wl to the Lost Ones in Storm Lock and thus sacrificing ourselves in the process is kind of starting to look like mimicking the very final act of the King. 😓😅

[waxen ermine]

When you think about it really though

So all the sky kids are Resh, they come to fix their mistake at Eden
Most turn into statues
A sky kid comes, releases his winged lights, freeing all those other trapped sky kids and sends them flying (and turns into a statue themself)

The Eden diamond isn’t fixed or anything, so it’s just the king saving himself multiple times

I don’t get it… what is he redeeming, exactly? He saves himself in a repeated cycle without affecting the diamond

I guess what counts is saving the other spirits outside Eden

[cyan elbow]

I always wondered what really was the point of were just gonna die, come back, and save ourselves again just to die again and fix nothing

[waxen ermine]

“We did it! We saved ourselves and changed nothing!”

(Jk, we at least help the elders and spirits outside, maybe this is just a complicated way of getting to see them and ascend)

[cyan elbow]

I mean the only in game motivation is Eden candles

I just really wanna know why we go to Eden? Is it just to see others we help ascend or does it have a deeper meaning... I always saw it as we sacrificed ourselves for others.. I saw it as a metaphor for helping others and being kind but now I wonder if maybe there even is a way to fix the diamond or not and what that would do exactly

[versed mirage]

Or it could just be their work uniforms

[vernal rapids]

Would this be an adequate depiction of the king?

[rain frost]

Lorechat, I just played the season of abyss quests and I'm wondering why the belly of the leviathan looks like death in Eden??

[waxen ermine]

I believe the dark void represents “inside” something

Like inside the leviathan, inside the void’s memories

[rain frost]

Ah that makes sense

[versed mirage]

Not really, he doesn’t really have a crown, just that big diamond mask thing.

[vernal rapids]

Are there any official images of him, that isn't a mural painting?

[versed mirage]

There was potential leaked material of him. But not sure if we can share it yet.

[vernal rapids]

Please don't. I was just curious if there was anything that TGC has officially revealed to the public.

[versed mirage]

But the dude has his statues all over garbage wastes.

Those might give you a better idea, plus there’s that thing in the final shard memory that is definitely his.

[vernal rapids]

Would this work?

[versed mirage]

That’s probably the closest right now? Dont think there’s an item that matches him in game right now

[vernal rapids]

Maybe this mask? Or combining them?

[versed mirage]

Yea that’s probably the closest you can get

[vernal rapids]

Ok...
Besides the mask, what should I do?

[versed mirage]

Not sure, probably something that fits the powerful look

[vernal rapids]

Should I resize? Since I'm super short? Lol

[versed mirage]

Not sure you wanna enter that gambling mess

[vernal rapids]

I have 13 resize potions atm lol

[versed mirage]

It’s ultimately your choice.

[vernal rapids]

Based on what we know, isn't he relatively young? At least far younger than the Elders?

[versed mirage]

I don’t know, but his statues show him being above everyone else. (His statues are really tall)

[vernal rapids]

Hmm... I'll have to see.

[vernal rapids]

In the shard memory with the Diamond and the Elders, I flew up and took a screenshot of it.

[brave patio]

Oooo the diamond being used to trap the void is a really cool idea

[narrow marsh]

They are actually called descendants? Where is that from?

[celest birch]

Cool and really bad as now the Diamond itself is an active death and destruction machine. 😅 😅 But well, given that it was probably the only way for the King and Elders to try fix the mess as much as possible ... yeah.

And that is purely based of the entire light-> darkness -> light flow, like ... if there is a great amount of light suddenly gone, then most likely the same amount of void/darkness will come in its place.

[north bronze]

We are called descendants yes

*You can find this information almost anywhere relating to Sky CotL, including the wiki page for Sky Children, various concept arts, Im sure a few times in-game, too

As you know we’re more commonly known as Skykids

[north bronze]

Yeah pretty much his (or our) ‘redemption’ is to restore light to the world, and help the spirits ascend…and he isn’t doing a great job of restoring light if the diamond is still active. Heck, it even spits out shards every few days after the last year+…if anything, the shattering diamond has gotten worse, and darkness continues to spread

[spiral vault]

I really don't think the king is doing any saving, i see them as totally and utterly dead

[north bronze]

Well whatever the plan was, it still continues to fail even after the Bird of Light’s interference

[celest birch]

I actually have a pretty great quote from another game that describes the state of the Kingdom nigh-perfectly.

"In a war against darkness, stalemate is victory."

And we did restore light to some areas of the world like the Forgotten Ark, Sanctuary Islands and especially Aviary Village; on other hand, by this point, I´d say that the Skykids´ task (aside delivering wl through Eden and freeing the trapped Spirits) is to keep the status quo going. Keeping darkness at bay and nurturing what´s left of the light in the ruined Kingdom.

While Shard Eruptions, in the long-term, mean that the Diamond of Eden has become so destabilized that it literally started to explode literal chunks of itself around the Kingdom that can´t be reassembled back into the thing itself ... aka it´s starting to lose mass and it´s only a matter of time before it starts to decrease in power due to so many shards being so blown out of itself as well as shrink.

[north bronze]

This is where game mechanics and lore begin to intertwine and cause issues, Because although it makes logical sense - we all know shard events (hopefully) won’t be leaving, so can we really say it’s losing mass? That it really will be a matter of time before it shrinks? Will there ever be a truly healed kingdom? Or are we just mindlessly tending to a dead world for no one but ourselves at this point?

[celest birch]

The Kingdom will never be truly healed without a literal divine intervention, that´s a certainty even when/if Diamond of Eden, in time, becomes no more (which I imagine to be the literal nuclear-style explosion comparable to the Shattering one in the Shard Memory). And well, the world isn´t dead, given the flowers and all light creatures in it. :) It´s just post-Ancestor world.

[north bronze]

we are the divine intervention

[celest birch]

And yes, I absolutely imagine that when the Diamond of Eden does its very last boom and gets completely destroyed, so will the remnants of the Kingdom itself.

Thus I said "literal", like Megabird itself would have to come down there to heal literal realms like almost all of GW.

[north bronze]

The bird of light is a cosmic entity far too large to come down onto the planet/clouds. My interpretation of our creator is that it’s literally just a somewhat sentient nebula, so the most literal action it could take would be to continue the soul-cycle, create a new descendant race and hope it heals the world. Not a literal bird made of light. But that’s my interpretation

[celest birch]

My own is pretty much Yggdrasill-inspired after someone mentioned that the Megabird concept really looks like a giant Tree of Life.

And well, one does not simply say that a cosmic deity isn´t able to literally incarnate in a form able to walk the world in, like we saw with AURORA concerts where she took the storyteller-role of Megabird for her songs. :) If you ask me, that is.

[north bronze]

interesting interpretation, i'm assuming you mean based off of these arts:

i take mine from i suppose the art concepts as well as the in-game representation; the famous end-credits image we all know. incredibly zoomed out with one or 2 planets in-view for scale, and we fly through but a tiny spec of that mass of light

as for the Aurora theories, i do like them, but they just feel too weird for me to consider canon, what with Aurora being a real life person, rather than a sky-exclusive character

[celest birch]

But well, like with Twin Embers, we shall see what will time tell. And TGC with their updates. 🤭

That as well as its image that we see circle the water surrounding the Office portal in WoK. Speaking of end-credits, I really find it interesting how in the end, we see the entire thing zoom into the lone lit red candle, like its light is the Cosmic Light itself.

Season of AURORA actually take a very interesting approach to the AURORA Guide. As written in TGC´s page when the season started:
Complete these Seasonal Quests to reveal the colors and elements waiting to be restored and awaken a spirit of Light from the world’s distant past.

...
AURORA Guide is literally an ancient spirit of Light in-universe. :D

[spiral vault]

I suppose that depends on how/when TGC wants to end Sky.

[vernal rapids]

Along with you guys, I will be overanalyzing every frame of Two Embers lol

[vernal rapids]

Maybe we could ask the deer to intervene? It appears to be one of the few entities we know of that has a power that could heal or combat the darkness.

[celest birch]

If we´d be able to persuade it once we manage to summon it, that is. ^^; As now, due to season´s end, the deer is invisible to all but ones wearing the Radiance cape.

[north bronze]

A* spirit of light

[celest birch]

She is from the world´s distant past, thus "ancient".

[north bronze]

Just like the* ancient ancestors, who are conveniently also spirits of light..

[celest birch]

Oh and before I forget, the presumed Megabird image at the Office portal.

[inland cliff]

In Passage old times when Eden hasn't been formed yet, why is there a ray of light on the mountain?

[boreal hare]

eden still existed, but it didnt have the thunder and such because it never got (presumably) taken over by the king

[waxen ermine]

Brilliant observation! The is is the holy light beam that creatures need to visit

[inland cliff]

The light beam that comes from the big crystal counts as well?

[waxen ermine]

It was there before the crystal

[inland cliff]

In observation, when we see her in the musical voyage she actually has a body similar to human-like or skykids, along with concept arts shows AURORA being in a cocoon and the mural art in Harmony Hall

This leads me to think that she was also once an ancestor but has a spirit of light, with her musical ability that made her an idol. Until she put her vessel in a coma-state like we see with the AURORA guide to withstand the eden explosion, waiting for the skykids era to begin, for now they're her new audience,her children and their guardian

[dire night]

Yeah, but i like to believe that the Aurora concerts should not be considered canon because they were all moved to the secret room in vault. Dont get me wrong, i love Aurora and little prince but i feel they dont have a place in the Sky lore because they were only meant to be crossovers for the players.

[north niche]

I tend to just think of the vault as a library, and that's the "fiction" section

[cold spire]

Guys someone mightve said this before but what if the spirit’s story was that they sent their maybe wife (i think is the crying spirit) and a kid away on boat as a last minute chance to save them before eden hit the isle

[nimble ingot]

Just thought of an old animated film about a little boy in a library, and the tales written in the many books came to life and the boy had to save himself and the library.
The film was called the Pagemaster.

Or even other old films where fiction came to reality like The Neverending Story, or Inkheart.

[cold spire]

Another one os that the two other spirits in isle are a couple/close friends and discover a skykid that had fallen like us, not sure if they save it afterwards but likely not as the stories i believe are the last memories of a spirit before the eden explosion

[winter whale]

OK，thank you

[brave patio]

I feel that the Aurora season is far more canon than the rest of the collabs, given that it does show us actual Sky lore a lot (though maybe Aurora herself wasn’t there)

[spiral vault]

I don't think so, Aurora and the spirits are still there in the sky world

Little Prince and deer are probably still canon, there's no big contradictions found in their stories and fit well with Sky's themes

[north bronze]

as far as i'm aware, the spirit memories we relive aren't necessarily immediately before death.
there are a variety of different types of memories we relive, and finding/adopting the child in the desert is likely a memory that they hold very dear to themselves, making it worthy of being one of ushering stargazers most important memories to die with

[north bronze]

i love your take on this. thank you

[north bronze]

omg, Pagemaster is such a throwback.

[north bronze]

"there are a variety of different types of memories we relive"
yes, there are ancestors who left memories immediately before dying, or immediately before the diamond erupted, but most spirits seem (to me) to be leaving behind memories that either

1. mean a lot to them
   or 2. comfort them

-for example, Hide n Seek Pioneer. she's a child spirit, and she may have been trying to remember memories that comfort her in dire times; memories of playing games with her friends. hide n seek.
-Ushering Stargazer, who's most important memory would be finding the child Prince. before dying, she could be remembering how it all used to be, before it all went downhill. Reminiscing about the sweet little child she once adopted as she fades away.
-the entire Season of Performance cast - they are all prepping for a big show, perhaps the biggest show of their lives - perhaps a show important enough to comfort yourself with the memories of before you die
-Season of Dreams - the memories of a young girl who dreamt of becoming a reknowned figure skater, and accomplished such dreams. very important memories for a young aspiring soul. perhaps the biggest moment of her life & definitely worthy of being the thing you'd want to remember before you die

there are more, but i'm not gonna go through every single spirit in the game :p

[vernal rapids]

Here's my new attempt at cosplaying the King/Eden Elder.

[strange flare]

I think there's one that's called apologetic lumberjack (might be me misremembering it if I'm wrong with the name)

Which their last memory might be of regret/feel sorry

[north bronze]

today i learned that despite our in-game model, we do have mouths (either that, or we're breathing the bubbles through our noses)

[north bronze]

mouth

[versed mirage]

That’s probably as close as you can get

[vernal rapids]

I think so too, unless something new is released

[versed mirage]

I wouldn’t be surprised if some in game items are made for two embers

However, the king is such a huge figure in the lore I’m not sure he’d get an item since he’s probably the most important character in the lore that we know of.

The only I think that could remotely relate to him was the Eden crown and even that didn’t make it to live.

[vernal rapids]

At the very least, I think it would be cool to see a tie-in Season for Two Embers, with the spirits and guide being relevant characters we haven't had access to yet.

[versed mirage]

I’m not sure they’d go through with it, cause that would pretty much guarantee they have to show the King.

[vernal rapids]

He doesn't have to be a guide or anything. Maybe just the characters we follow the most?

[versed mirage]

Yea but the game has made a weirdly strong effort to just never have him brought up by other spirits at all.

[vernal rapids]

Well, who knows.

[versed mirage]

TGC probably

[vernal rapids]

I just think we should have a tie-in Season, even if they exclude the King's cosmetics.

[north bronze]

this image translated from the description of the Two Embers trailers from last week states that there will more than likely be collab season(s), which means there will be items relating to the animation project

[versed mirage]

Why do they call it a collab season? It’s their own IP?

[north bronze]

well, the Two Embers is actually a collaborative project between TGC and the animation studio creating it

[versed mirage]

Still, it’s set in the sky universe. It’s just a season… collab usually implies an outside IP coming in as the season.

[north bronze]

and yet there were people trying to justify collaborative seasons being inside the canon earlier

(i agree, collabs should be counted as in-universe fiction. but we could look at this as a history re-telling, much like Aurora's season)

[rain frost]

that was before we got confirmation of an entire show likely about the king - if anything would warrant the game actually showing/bringing him up, it'd be this

[vernal rapids]

Maybe Sky should collab with FF7, giving us Jenova's true form

[versed mirage]

There’s nothing directly stating collab seasons aren’t cannon to my knowledge. Considering they’re in the vault, a place that physically makes no sense sometimes, I think they probably are cannon.

[versed mirage]

I’m not opposed to showing the king, however they really gotta do it right.

[north bronze]

i feel like TLP and 9Coloured Deer are fiction, personally. those 2 are specifically outside IPs not owned by TGC

[versed mirage]

Yea but they also take place in Vault, a place shown to sorta make stories real.

[north bronze]

the spirits are based off of characters within their respective books and arts, and someone stated earlier, the collab room can be seen as a fiction section.

where is it confirmed that the Vault makes ficiton into reality?

[versed mirage]

Little prince literally dies in Eden. Also Eden is visible in both stories

[north bronze]

and this makes it a reality how?

this is Sky's rendition on the Little Prince, nowhere is it confirmed to be actual canon

[versed mirage]

Yea but why would they put Eden there? They didn’t have to

[north bronze]

Eden is visible from everywhere - it's supposed to be. obviously with the exception of indoor places like the vault

they also put the Wind Paths in starlight desert, and that's merely a shortcut

the places could be real. the stories not.

[versed mirage]

I think it’s a mix of both. The areas are real but the stories also are real.

[north bronze]

Aurora & the potential upcoming 2 Embers seasons being a history re-telling of the Sky Kingdom, and TLP/9CD being fictional stories being told in Sky's unique way

i don't think the stories of the latter 2 seasons are real. purely fiction.
what you said isn't a mix of both

[versed mirage]

Well the story is still a story, doesn’t mean it’s fake.

[north bronze]

just fiction

[versed mirage]

Fiction brought to life by the vault.

[north bronze]

not brought to life.

[versed mirage]

I think it is. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be brought to life in an environment where they can project memories, creatures, and other things.

[north bronze]

the vault is in no way confirmed to have the ability to bring fiction to life. Eden being visible in Starlight & Crescent doesn't confirm this.

the way you've been saying "brought to life" implies that they are canon, in-universe fact...what i'm saying is that they are fictional stories

[versed mirage]

I think the stories are fiction, but given a sense of real life, maybe not the normal definition, but more like an intractable projection of them.

[north bronze]

i much agree more with that

[versed mirage]

Probably should’ve clarified that, but yea I mean more they are alive to an extent. You can see the stories and interact with them, but they remain as stories. Which vault is known to have the capability of making projections of things and those things kinda being alive to some extent.

We were even given an item that can literally do that (the manta projector)

[north bronze]

i wouldn't quite say they are "alive to some extent" only basing from my knowledge that they could more likely be memories, than the tangible, current-state of whichever being is being projected

well, memories are actually "alive to some extent", so i guess i would say that

and yes this item is what i'm referring to when i mention memories.

[versed mirage]

The only reason I say alive to some extent, is because we can interact with the said stories. It could just be a very convincing sort of act by the story to portray aliveness, but yea.

[north bronze]

yeah no i kinda stumbled into my own words with my last message lol

[versed mirage]

Nah it’s good. I think the easiest way to summarize it, is vault makes very convincing life-like stories feel so immersive you can interact with them.

Where you could almost believe it’s alive to an extent.

[north bronze]

ye

[versed mirage]

Also another detail that idk if it’s important, but if you backtrack back through where you came from little prince, you wake up back at the meditation circle. (Deer season doesn’t have it)

[north bronze]

yeah i've always thought it was weird that the Crescent Oasis and even the Valley Coliseum don't have a way back into the Collab Room...

Crescent Oasis i can accept, since the beginning of the realm is a dead-end, but the Coliseum? it would make total sense for there to be a door back to the Collab Room ????

[north bronze]

there's even a big wall leading to where you'd think the collab room is from coliseum, but it;s just a wall...it looks completely out of place, too(bad memory), as if there was meant to be an entryway there- but they just decided not to

[versed mirage]

It could also just be a sort of thing they didn’t think about and just made the collab room to easily put future collabs in.

Maybe the art book has something on it…

[north bronze]

isn't the artbook old/pre-seasons?

[versed mirage]

I’m not sure? I wasn’t able to get one.

[north bronze]

nah, same. i'm just assuming it's old or didn't consider seasons based on the only things i've seen from it, being texts regarding early story concepts

[light ore]

hi

[north bronze]

let us through the door 😭

it's even the same shape and height 😭

[versed mirage]

Could’ve been a little rushed to make the room or just no real reason to make it more complicated than it needed to be. Granted, a lot of the seasonal areas post season tend to just… sit there. Even abyss has a glitched clam or some form of intractable that never got patched.

[vestal whale]

@willow pumice Hey Sensei, I wrote 180 pages and completed the sky lore. I'm also getting engaged in March. I did it, Master. 😎

[shadow moon]

My guess on your tlp and deer seasons debat being canon or not is that, as mentioned earlier, the places exists, but the stories are, as you said, only stories. Why i believe the plaves exists :

1. There are wing lights there
2. A shard event can happent in tlp area, which is literally a projection from the Eden shard
   These 2 things make it a real place for me, since they're not limited to the place and that if it's a story, then no one pre-shattering (aka probably the time it was written) could have imaginated that i think.

[nimble ingot]

If I may add another argument to the debate.
TGC stated in past interviews that these collab seasons also give insight on what influenced the game.

• The Little Prince's story about a boy able to visit other worlds, who loved a rose, and had an open ended form of the Hero's Journey format.
• Aurora's songs that are emotionally moving, and tells tales of sorrow, loss and also of hope and euphoria (happiness/joy).
• The nine coloured deer that is a mythological legend about a powerful creature that sacrificed their lives at the hands of humans who sought to corrupt and destroy it.

The stories themselves that crossed over to the game may not be canon. But their impact on the game is.

[strange flare]

we do eat (snacks?) and drink tea too (canon or not is questionable)
(But we do have the ancestor table of belonging so-)

[north bronze]

table of belonging only provides wax/light that we absorb like regular wax/light

but yes the snacks and tea has to go somewhere

[strange flare]

I find it interesting
No wonder people head canon that they have some sort of prosthetic

And I found this on the gate of Forest Temple

[cold sparrow]

that one is an Easter egg, based on the concept art of the forest elder afaik

[north bronze]

if you have the Valley constellation 100% unlocked, and go into orbit, you can more clearly make out their prosthetic arms when you call them down
granted, they may not be canonically prosthetic, but something is definitely not right with Valley Sister's arm here

[north bronze]

correct

[jovial roost]

gonna share this one too coz I think it looks really funny haha

[jovial roost]

I've never seen the drawings with like, rabits ? can I know where did you get those from pliz ?

[north bronze]

https://x.com/thatskygame/status/1284977308462223360

[jovial roost]

thx !

[jovial roost]

by the way for lore experts or lore enjoyers, I have a little question abt something :

I often see on discord people saying something like "When you see the shadow of a sky-kid, the cape has no shadow, that means our cape is totaly made out of light"

My question is : "Is that really true ? Is that confirmed by tgc ?"
I'm really curious, because if it's not, isnt that just because they were lazy to add a shadow for capes ? And not in a bad way ofc ! (for the "lazy"), first of all there are like so many capes, and 2nd I heard in an interview that it wasnt even easy to make a cape moving, so a shadow of a cape ?? it sounds hards

I mean just look at the shadow of mantas, just a circle, does that mean mantas are 90% made of light ? all that doesnt sound good to me x) thx for your answers if someone does

[north bronze]

well, i can't remember if it's specifically confirmed (and i'm too tired atm to do some researching), but there are little hints here & there that our capes, hair and possibly clothes are made of light. some (but not all) indicators for capes, being that it materializes from nothing when you (or a friend) initially spawns. another indication would be the light particles that come out of our capes whenever we use a wing flap. and whenever we lose our flame (after losing our light), we lose our capes, hair & clothing until recharged.

it's stated in lore and concepts that all living creatures are made of light ("All souls are part of the Bird of Light") - Fish, birds, jellyfish, manatees, manta, and whales are all light creatures, and a part of the "soul-cycle", and therefore made of light. This even includes Krill, since they originated from mantas & manta eggs.

honestly? i'm willing to bet that the shadows are both a case of:
-us being made of light
-"lazy" implementation :p

i never noticed the shadows of animals, though. only our own shadows, so nice catch

as for the interview about being able to get the capes moving - i'm not sure how difficult it would be for cloth simulation to work with physics or gravity simulations, i'm not much of a developer (at all) lol, but i also read that the "Light Awaits" capes were changed from their intricate patterns into the simple block colours we see on basic capes today, because patterned capes were far too demanding of the game during the time (it being a small indie mobile game when it began). but as you said, there are now so many capes in the game that this is rendered irrelevant these days

in the case of Sky: CotL, being "made of light" could mean something entirely different than what we'd imagine it could mean, since the lifeforms found in the game all clearly have physical forms and are able to touch matter (something light can't do)

[spiral vault]

I think it's just chemical reactions, it's not like we breath

[jovial roost]

thx for the answer B) I also think there is like logik things, and lazyness things xD I sure understand we are children of The Light/Megabird , and we are made of light, but I think interesting that in our body/clothes, things are made out of light (as u said, hair, cape, clothes and even masks I guess ?), but our body itself is not made out of light, and like the circle for mantas that is funny x) thx for your point of view, it was clear, Ill let you know if I can find the confirmation or not haha

[north bronze]

that doesn't make sense to me

[spiral vault]

Most of which already exist in-game. Also, where would you put this season?

[north bronze]

bubbles forming from our mouth area whilst underwater, to me, and i'd assume most people, would be a clear indication of breathing - an edit: why else would the animation even be put in the game if not for the illusion of breathe/breath?

[spiral vault]

The other reason is that you only get the capes once we collect winged light, and our cape is damaged in eden, where we lose a lot of winged light. So a cape might just be an extension of a winged light. Shadows are just a gameplay mechanic, but they can still relate to the lore in some ways

[spiral vault]

Skykids don't have any sort of respiratory system, bubbles can be anything

[north bronze]

nah, sorry. that's nonsense. there's clearly a reason why the devs put a "breathing animation" for when we're underwater.

[spiral vault]

Skykids don't have mouths, that's pretty clear and obvious

[north bronze]

did you read the post? "despite our in-game models"

and the bubbles are forming from where our mouths would be. as you said about shadows; no mouths could be a simple game mechanic - a desgin choice. it's pretty clear and obvious that if we form bubbles from our mouths underwater, then we have mouths. a "chemical reaction"? yeah okay..

[jovial roost]

yes ! it's like, I understand the reasons of why it could be, but I also can understand why it couldnt be ! so Im like wondering if tgc said once "ye that's true >:] " xD ty for the answer too :))

[jovial roost]

oo that's funny I didnt really thought if we do have or don't, Im wondering how sky-kids are making laugh sound when we doing laugh emote

[brave patio]

Ash (concept artist) said that it’s up to us if starlight desert (then the only collab area) is real or an illusion created by the vault, but that it had to be at least partially real as the wind paths connect to them

[celest birch]

Well, fire is technically the same chemical reaction as breathing, thus either is right.

[north bronze]

the bubbles come from our mouths, and the animation wasn't placed into the game for no reason

someone saying that we have no respiratory system, and that we don't breathe, so matter-of-factly just doesn't do it for me

i would like to click out of the lore channel for tonight. please don't reply to/ping me ty

[jovial roost]

that's so cute ! I also had a little theorie about that, during event of bloom in peak of prairie, before turning out as a butterfly and sit on a "meditation spot", the game asks you "do you want to daydream ?" (got pic from a video of noobmode, Im lazy to find in all my pics xD). So I was wondering if it's not also the same for colabs seasons (because now, we sit on a meditation spot too), if it's not just a dream

[celest birch]

For their collab season´s stories, it can be (only Little Prince and 9-Colored Deer ones, that is). For places and spirits themselves though, defo not if you ask me.

[north bronze]

? i got a notification when the reaction was changed

[jovial roost]

by what Ash said, we can say we all are right after all

[north bronze]

@celest birch ?

[celest birch]

This is the only time that I will break what you said for the end there (to not reply or ping you), Elf. is the closest one I could find to "fireplace" emoji (I have no clue why is Discord not having that one) and I messed up in creating "noreply" out of emojis.

I´ll shut up now.

[north bronze]

okay, fair enough. apoligies, i thought you were trying to get on my nerves, lol. have a nice night, i'm clicking out again, no pings please!

[spiral vault]

It's more about using what we see in the game and forming theories based on that

[jovial roost]

you are right, I was just wondering hehe

[celest birch]

Wondering if these 3 could´ve been potentially in the same regiment (Backflip Champion, Fainting Warrior, Bowing Medalist).

still wishing for their outfit as well because it looks awesome. :D

[vernal rapids]

I don't know if it's a mouth per se, but there is certainly some Sky equivalent. Skids have a kind breath meter while underwater, skids have a breathing emote. Skids take food and drinks to where their mouths should be, and we have bubbles coming from the mouth area while underwater as well. And the Two Embers trailer, and some masks suggest that some light creatures have actual mouths
Other other hand, even if the skid is maskless, there's no physical representation of a mouth or nose. And of course Skids can survive in space. Not only can we go up into orbit, but from the Dev's office, we can visit the ISS in Earth's orbit. That's without being in the "reborn" state.
So my guess is that they don't quite have mouths like humans do, or any biological creature. I think it's more like they're breathing and eating forms of light.
I don't know if it's the same for the peoples of Sky, because Skykids seem to be different entities. But who knows?

[celest birch]

It´s why I tried to get a fireplace emoji; I imagine Skykid´s body resembles an indoor fireplace and those too have specific areas that allows the flame to burn bright and not exhume as much soot and ash as usual.

[sudden venture]

To that underwater thing: I think it could be that the water a part of the light that we need blocks. But it is not too much so that we have this bubble thing. Like we’re not stable anymore and lose light in form of bubbles

[celest birch]

Just like with breathing. :) As for bubbles, I´d say that´s the same as the air we exhale, thus the oxygen meter.

[sudden venture]

Do you mean that the light can’t mix with the water and becomes bubbles because of that?

[celest birch]

We do get those bubbles out without losing light as well when we´re in air-rich areas of water like bubble pockets, fish and underwater light bloom.

No, I mean that we´re pretty much a big fireplace shaped like a humanoid and our "organs" is that inner flame we reveal if we pull the candle out, which does bring more interesting interpretations when it´s being pulled out from our chest underwater.

As we do have the entire "fire triangle" chart that makes it even more synonymous to breathing.

Cakes and tea from items like teaset being the equivalent of "small fuel" ˆ-ˆ

[sudden venture]

Well you can’t. I think it could be because of the light around our body. Like this light when you honk. Then your body lights up. So… in my theory this light around us is like a second skin. Underwater we lose parts of the light of this skin. That would also explain why we can’t take our candle out underwater. The skin is used and protects our light from coming out of our body. I am too lazy to explain the bubbles. And hey this is just a theory.

???? What the….?! What have i written?!

This is just chaos lol. Just read from “So… in my theory”

[celest birch]

As is everything in this server really, thus that much fun to speculate. 🤭 Also, not being able to pull our candle out underwater just kind of makes me think more that we indeed are like a humanoid living walking fireplace for this inner flame, this body of ours protecting it from harm (as much as a skin would, even if technically I´m fully invested in "our body is made of rock-material" hypothesis not just because of color, but also because of darkstone growing on us when we get extinguished completely, so that even the little star isn˙t lit up anymore).

[celest birch]

A game theory? 🤭 Honestly, imagine if Game Theorists would try to tackle Sky. O M G

[sudden venture]

Yeah I almost written that

[sudden venture]

Mhhh isn’t it some kind of copyright thingy? I know game theory too but well yeah

[vernal rapids]

The weird thing is that Skykids can survive in areas with no oxygen or atmosphere whatsoever, such as the vacuum of space.

[red meteor]

Now that you mentioned the skykids skin color, maybe there is a reason why their hair color is white, I feel like we as humans have hair color because of melanin we have in our hair, that means that sky kids are not like humans at all when it comes to that although our form is very kid like

[north bronze]

don't say i didn't warn you earlier.

[vernal rapids]

My current theory as to why Skykids struggle underwater, but not in the vacuum of space is that it has nothing to do with air or respiration, but light instead. I think Skykids, more than anything survive off of light energy. In the first 10 meters of depth alone, water absorbs over 50% of light energy. High energy light, like blues and greens, penetrate farther than less energy light, like reds and oranges. In space, light has no issues whatsoever. So maybe the breath meter, maybe the bubbles as well are indicators of gradual light loss? A lot of of the underwater plant life glows, some of the fish too, so maybe they're efficient enough underwater to go so far as to emit light? Idk.

Maybe the mouth is a port for taking in and absorbing light energy, instead of air?

[red meteor]

Yeah it would make sense honestly

[north bronze]

of course this is concept art, and many things are scrapped from concepts. but here's a couple of early skykid designs
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[red meteor]

And also it seems that skykids don't really need to eat, drink etc so I wonder why we can

[north bronze]

another couple early desgins hints at an anatomy*, and all kinds of internal systems

-the edit is for spelling errors

[north bronze]

descendants are canonically (somewhat) immortal. we theoretically don't need to eat, sleep, breathe, drink, or stay warm

however, wouldn't you agree it's nice to be able to?
without our Ancestors to guide and teach us their cultures and arts and expressions, we would be a pretty blank slate of a race, with no point in our lives other than to go through Eden every week

and i personally am a big fan of Grannies cooking. i don't know about any of you.

[red meteor]

Same! I love grannies bread I just don't understand where it goes 🥲

[north bronze]

lol! it's the one food source in the game that acts like regular wax, too, so grannies dinner doesn't make the best argument :p

i can't even beleive i forgot about that...

it's the one of two* food sources (of many -yes, another edit), excuse me. i must have sneezed

[red meteor]

I wish they could make a baking season just for fun

[north bronze]

that'd be neat. we could have cosmetics such as aprons and mittens and maybe a little frying pan prop

[vernal rapids]

We see glowing bubbles, but if that's air, then why don't skykids suffocate in space?

[red meteor]

Yesss it would be so fun 😌

[north bronze]

so, i saw your message earlier regarding space, and that's the Little Prince asteroid if i remember? (forgive me, too tired to scroll up)

well, it was discussed (though not confirmed) earlier today that the collaberation areas (TLP & 9CD) are fictional
-theoretically, it may not even be real space

[vernal rapids]

Then why does the oxygen leave the skykid's bodies underwater but doesn't in the vacuum of Space?

[grizzled vector]

Assuming space is even a vacuum in Sky

[vernal rapids]

In Sky we can visit the International Space Station in Earth's orbit.

[north bronze]

backtracking to my previous comment on "isn't it nice to be able to do these things, even if we don't have to?"

well, our bodies may have just gotten so used to it, that we just breathe automatically (you're now breathing manually)

*regarding the space station; isn't that also a part of TLP?

[grizzled vector]

We see creatures of light be able to fly directly into orbit and fly around in there. Though technically at the point you are "in orbit" you're a soul and not necessarily a physical body

The space station is an easter egg in the Office area

You get there through a portal though so at that point you could argue you may not be on the same planet anymore (or possible not even in the same universe)

[north bronze]

oh wow. i've been to the office so many times and i just googled how to access the ISS...i've always thought it was a 2nd area accessed with the asteroid jacket!

[vernal rapids]

In that "Easter Egg," we're still entering space (as we understand it) with physical bodies.

[grizzled vector]

Yes and we fly around in that space by flapping our wings, which wouldn't work in a vacuum. We also don't have "zero-g" physics in there, etc

[north bronze]

i'll argue that the Office is a special place that doesn't necessarily need to adhere to rules, since it's the Dev's special area, and in any game, Devs are seen as gods

[grizzled vector]

I'm still confused as to why it's such an Important Topic whether skykids have mouths though

[north bronze]

same. it was just a fun observation i thought of earlier after seeing bubbles come from my skykids mouth 😐 it became the topic of the day

[vernal rapids]

Fair enough.

[vernal rapids]

It's not.
It's more of a topic of curiosity, snd skykid anatomy csn technically fall under Sky lore.

[grizzled vector]

I do recall hearing that at some point the devs have states something along the lines of "there are no teeth in Sky" so at some point it may have been part of the concept that skykids literally don't have mouths. But since then we've had Season of Passage which had tusk earrings, and tusks are in fact teeth

Either way, for what it's worth, I feel like it might not be the kind of topic that really warrants overthinking, let alone heightened tensions between participants. Maybe it's just me but seeing this discussion really made me want to take a break from the channel, and I wasn't even part of it.

[vernal rapids]

I wonder if that's just referring to Skykids, rather than light creatures, because even Two Embers confirms that light creatures, like mantas, have mouths.

[north bronze]

before i go off to do my CR and dailies - i will share something fun to think about

people often ask what Winged Light are. and people often answer "they're skykids" - which often leads to other questions about how Winged Light function etc

people also usually ask/wander what our insides and anatomy are like, and if you go into the Aviary IAP store & look at the Sparrow, Moth and Journey IAPs, you will see that they're just skykid-sized Winged Light wearing their respective cosmetic items.

there's also a bug that can happen in Orbit, where you can see an adult-sized Winged Light standing on the constellation table

ok bye

[grizzled vector]

I don't really remember what exactly was said, and it was me hearing someone say something they heard. But as far as I remember, the context was there are no predator/prey relationships in the Sky ecosystem, no one eats each other, etc. With the possible exception of the "krill" etc but that's "corruption" that's not a natural part of Sky ecosystem

[north bronze]

i personally think the krill are more machine (*in nature) than predators. they're surveilance weapons, watching their post long after there's been nothing left to watch over, stuck in an endless loop

[royal python]

omg this is so cool… you use your winged light to free supposedly other sky kids that came before you, and those sky kids that you free give you ascended candles. you then will often use those ascended candles to ascend the spirits that you’ve unlocked, and those ascended spirits will give you the winged light for your “next life.” it’s all cyclical, that’s so cool.

[north bronze]

😁 i also feel like this is the reason why our eyes glow (when they're open/we're wearing a mask)

[grizzled vector]

Point being, if I remember correctly, at least at some point it may have been A Thing that none of the creatures have mouths or really eat in a same sense humans do. But I'm also not sure if that's still a thing.

[north bronze]

honestly, i feel like the lack of features is more of a design choice for the simplistic artstyle

the manatees have little mouths if you sneak up and look closely, as does that wyrm/lurker from days of nature, and the little prince. but off the top of my head, i can't think of any other creatures or beings possessing mouths or other facial features

makes you think why we don't have fingers if we're able to use dexterity-based items?

[grizzled vector]

Regarding breathing or not breathing underwater, I believe there are two masks from Season of Abyss (one ulti and one you can still obtain from the Guide) that extend the time you can spend underwater. They both look like aquabreather masks 🤷

Though you also don't get an actual air tank with either of them, so it's unclear where the air would be coming from. Unless the masks filter the "oxygen" (or whatever it is skykids "breathe") from the water itself

And yes, I'm pretty sure the models having no visible mouths has more to do with trying to keep the poly count low than it does with actual lore. Same with mitten hands (especially considering the Ancestor spirits do in fact have fingers)

[north bronze]

and although i DO agree with this, it also makes one wonder, if we don't have fingers, then why do the Ancestor spirits?! even the child spirits like Boogie Kid and Hide&Seek Pioneer 🤔

[grizzled vector]

Presumably because you will usually only see one or two spirits at a time, but up to eight skykids, in the same scene

[north bronze]

i'm pretty thankful for our mittens. if Descendants had fingers in the game, that would just be so cursed.

[grizzled vector]

It probably doesn't matter as much on today's devices, but could have been more of a concern at launch when hardware was less powerful and the engine may have been less optimized

[grizzled vector]

(Also, pretty sure the "uncanny valley" effect is another significant reason why we don't have fingers or detailed faces. Ironically, it is harder to get them right if you make them more detailed than if you just omit features entirely)

Like, you need A Lot of polygons to properly model a hand, if you're going to properly model a hand

And then there is also the fact that there's no real point in modeling individual fingers unless you also animate individual fingers, which is a whole another can of worms

Since Sky clearly doesn't aim towards ultra realism, it makes sense they just shrugged and went "mitten hands and U.U faces it is"

(Then there's the part where most people wear masks over their faces anyway, so adding detailed mouths and noses with breathing holes would be extra pointless)

[north bronze]

i agree 100% with this, just look at the little prince or Aurora's models, yeesh

[brave patio]

These are really good points, skykids do a lot of actions that technically require some form of mouth (but I feel like their insides are made of fire and light and food that goes in becomes light)

I feel like we can’t “breathe” underwater because fire needs oxygen to survive

Idk if we need to breathe while being reborn?

[north bronze]

anyway it was just some fun things to think about, it's pretty obvious it's design choice, but people like to create their own little reasons in this channel & i wanted to plant some things out there

[brave patio]

Yeah I always draw my skykids with hands and mouths, I think the devs wanted the in-game appearance to just be simple (I don’t think skykids actually have mitten hands lol) (my personal headcanons, emphasis on personal and headcanon, also involve a basic respiratory system that brings oxygen to our core to keep it burning, as well as “blood” made of light that hardens into crystals outside our bodies)

It would be horrifying if we had fingers in game… I mean look at bloom guide…

[vernal rapids]

Don't the Elders have fingers?

[brave patio]

I think so, spirits and elders seem to have them

Skykid hands are very tiny so they might be harder to animate

[vernal rapids]

Speaking of which, I think every character in the Two Embers trailers has fingers, including the children.

Either way, I think the people's (spirits by the time we meet them in-game) have different anatomy than Skykids I think they, along with the wildlife, are more tangibly tethered to the world of sky. With Skykids being more "ethereal"

You don't see them pulling candles out of their bodies or flying through the air like a bird. They may need to eat, breathe and sleep as we understand it.

Prior to their existence as spirits, that is.

[spiral vault]

Yeah, but inside, you can see a tiny little darkstone inside of it

[oblique garnet]

Is it widely accepted that krills originated from manta experiments?

[brave patio]

It seems to be heavily implied that they are (season of abyss murals), and I think the devs did confirm (source needed) that krill used to be light creatures (and we would see which ones in the two embers)

[strange flare]

the concept art of season of abyss

edit: my bad, I'm sleep deprived, didn't read the text correctly

[brave patio]

Murals and concept art, but concept art especially, tho murals are more official

[cobalt palm]

First drop of Duets lore
#news message

Looks like the theme of performers wear animal masks is maintained to an extent, but that broken cello 💔

[oblique garnet]

Thank you, I'm gonna look at the murals and maybe concept art too
I was asking because for me personally krills don't look like corrupted mantas at all. I was thinking maybe they once were those transportation light creatures from the various trailers.

[celest birch]

ISS is technically at the border between the atmosphere and outer space in the game, as evident by the upward wind gusts when we fly towards it, and even if not I can imagine that the Sun is strong enough to act as a giant light source.

[celest birch]

Ok, that literal galaxy-kid is absolutely amazing, why we don˙t have an outfit like this in the game??

[rain frost]

season of duet is gonna make me cry somehow, i just know it 😭

[cobalt palm]

TGC bringing the tragedy drama emotions out on this one it feels

[rain frost]

also, Im still thinking abt the season of abyss bc i just played its quests and-
why do yall think the treasure reef looks so different from the rest of the wasteland? i mean the air is nice, the sun is shining and the water isnt toxic. i find this especially odd since they have some of the same hazards as wasteland e.g. krills and crabs.

[celest birch]

Eden knows how far from the main area of the Wasteland the Reef is.

[rain frost]

Thats a good point. And I guess it wasnt part of the war as much, right? That couldve contributed to the environment I suppose

[vernal rapids]

Technically, there shouldn't be any wind gusts that high up, so I will concede it makes no sense whatsoever.

[long vessel]

If it was a research/light mining facility, it's likely that any waste products would be transported Away. Although we don't really see any pipes, but that could just be a design choice - for all we know, the pipes are hidden in the un-explorable parts of the facility.

Plus, thinking about its location, it's at the beginning of Wasteland. To get to the next main area, we fly/get sucked into a vortex. (Anyone know what that's about, btw? I've always wondered if there were any theories on why that's there, other that just serving as a convenient cutscene and to set the tone for the area lol)

But anyway, we get sucked into that and then spit out and suddenly we're falling down and faceplanting into sand. So, that suggests that maybe Treasure Reef is geographically placed a lot higher up than the rest of Wasteland, so runoff due to gravity would make sense.

This does start getting into the question of what the water cycle is like in Sky, though. What replenishes the water? Because technically the beginning of Wasteland is also connected to that cloudy expanse behind it, which may provide clean water

(Apologies if this is hard to follow, I'm very tired )

Also Treasure Reef itself is very cloudy, which probably helps. All of GW is cloudy, but the rest of it specifically has damaged pipes and clear leakage of dark water. So to answer your other question, no, it seems like it probably wasn't too involved in the war. Like, it may have been an important location, strategically speaking, but it doesn't seem like it took too much damage from combat. Most of the damage seems to be caused by the Leviathan.

However, one thing of note is that most of the facility is underwater at this point - was that all due to the Leviathan? Or did it sink due to the blast of the Shattering? (Side note, I'd kill to see pics of that facility during its prime, the architecture is so interesting, and I'm so morbidly curious what the research/light-mining process looked like)

[rain frost]

that's a good point about runoff, i like that idea of its placement
Also maybe we'll see the Treasure Reef in the Two Embers 👀

[rain frost]

Also the vortex at the start seems reminiscent of the storm - maybe it's a hint of how affected by the shattering / darkness wasteland was? i mean all three realms with prominent darkness (eden, gw, and forest) all have some element of "bad weather" be it rain, hail, bad air or a tornado vortex

[native galleon]

there was a theory a while ago that the vortex was created by the Valley elders – since they have control over cyan light/the air element in the prophecy murals – as an attack on Wasteland and/or defense against the darkness spreading from there

And in the AURORA concert, you see projectiles of cyan light being hurled to make the vortex from the general direction of Valley

Valley-Wasteland civil war theory you will always be famous (to me)
< thats me

[thorny sundial]

i have a theory that the light kids you see at the end of eden are the friends you made along the way

[brave patio]

Yeah, I think it’s far enough away from Eden (center of pollution) that it isn’t affected as much

[north bronze]

i might assume that Treasure Reef used to be (what used to be) the Wasteland's lighthouse/coastal entry which is why it's so out of the way from the "mainland" so to speak

just going by the large tower where the map (and WL #1) is located, i'm not disregarding the fact that it was a facility

[brave patio]

Based on concept art murals (so final lore subject to change), it used to be a place mantas hatched and was turned into an facility

Maybe the lighthouse guided migrating creatures?

And we know the ancestors have turned sacred sites into factories before, the art book confirms they did this to forest temple

[celest birch]

It can only be accessed via the white-screening monitor in what I call "break-room" when the Office is dark, so this is as much as we can go with this. 🤭 🤭 The Office is, after all, known as just "Secret Area" and all, aside apparently taking place outside of Sky Kingdom.

[strange flare]

I have recently finished the Abyss missions

and here's what I have to say about it

1. We released the Leviathan and krills into the wild. It was contained in the lab before. And it seems to me as a reckless act collecting the resources. But we are just a "sky kid" we didn't know better.

2. Why is only one gem keeping the Leviathan captive? Why don't they have a better safety measure, or failsafe perhaps. Or maybe the failsafe has been degraded after the facility was flooded, who knows.

[long vessel]

I'm also curious about their approach to captivity.

One thing I wonder is if the Leviathan turned while under their care - I kinda assume so, so maybe the locks in place were there for when it was previously a light creature? Still, even light creatures can do major structural damage, so I'm very curious.

Also REALLY want to know how they made the (glass?) panel that separates the observation room from the tank, and how the creatures seemingly don't see past it/presumably can't destroy it.

ALSO also, how did they even contain it?! Like, it wreaked havoc on that whole area, what the heck did they do to get it back in the tank?!

And what about that one krill that follows it everywhere? What is up with that? Does the leviathan need an emotional support krill? Or maybe they intended to put all the dark creatures in there but only managed to get one krill (and Big Boi).

And speaking of the other krill, where did they come from? And are there more?

Also, if Big Boi was in the tank for a while, how/when did he eat the manta and all those fishies?? Do fish somehow wander into the tank? Was he fed in captivity? This is probably one of the only clear examples we have of a dark creatures digestion process lol - what the heck are we seeing, exactly? Maybe I'm totally off base and it was the light from the manta that turned into all those fish - idk. I've also seen some people say the leviathan was essentially cleansed of darkness and exploded into the swarm of fish, but he's still lurking down in the abyss below the facility, so that doesn't make sense to me.

Plus, yeah, we did release him... and that would be bad right? But he also doesn't really do anything. We essentially burped a grumpy leviathan baby and now he feels better and swims harmlessly down in the abyss, minding his own Big Baby Business 😂

[strange flare]

I think the Leviathan eats the fishes after we released them into the wild

The leviathan and krills were previously light creatures (presumably an elder Whale and Mantas)

They are drained of light and "converted" in the cage.

Meanwhile the damages around the area & Lighthouse was from the Eden diamond shattering

that's my theory

[long vessel]

What about that one mural at the beginning of Abyss showing the leviathan coming out of the water?

This one, I believe it's in the cave at the beginning

[long vessel]

And one other observation/curiosity since Rai mentioned us just being skykids and not knowing better - I agree we don't know better, but technically it wouldn't have been a skykid who did those acts, right? Maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way, but spirits are all in the past, so technically didn't the abyss crew do that? I kinda assumed we were "playing the part" of a past spirit. Which spirit, I'm not sure, since I think abyss guide is there throughout (right? I don't remember)

[native galleon]

I don’t think they were intentionally corrupting the creatures, I think they were holding them captive and draining them of their light to power darkstone. There’s a mural in the area that shows the levels of the factory with the creatures getting bigger and more diamonds coming out the other side on each level, implying that bigger creatures = more power. So they were definitely keeping that big creature at the bottom for that reason, I’ve even seen people take it a step further and theorize that they were trying to genetically engineer an elder manta or whale so they could produce a lot of power. I personally think that’s the most plausible explanation (and the genetic experiment idea is really neat), and the corruption was an unfortunate side effect of them messing around with nature

[long vessel]

I 100% agree with that. I also wonder what the plan was once they were corrupted, though. Like, did they stick around for any amount of time after locking them back up to observe them or run tests? Or did they flee only for the abyss crew to stumble upon the monsters later?

Edit: "they" as in the people who worked in the facility/labs prior to the escape

[native galleon]

I think they just ran

[long vessel]

Same lol

[north bronze]

oh nice, this must be how the seasonal guide & Spirits died. that must be their boat

[long vessel]

Could be. But there are also other sunken boats there, and boats needed to get there in the first place. Presumably the creature was locked up when the crew showed up, and then the crew/we accidentally free it, and it eats and also regurgitates us and one of the crew members. It's definitely possible the creature came up and eventually swallowed them whole, but idk, it seems more likely to me it probably attacked the people who were working/doing experiments there back when the facility was running

Also, a slight tangent, presumably someone puts these murals on the walls, right? That would mean whoever was in charge of putting that mural there was somehow aware of the events that occurred. I know there's that one mural spirit in the nine-colored deer area, I don't know if we might have any other potential theorized spirits who could fill that role. Maybe it's someone we haven't met. Or maybe it's just totally magic and doesn't have to make sense, I have no clue lmao

[waxen ermine]

In the concept mural that showed mantas turning into dark creatures + leviathan, most scientists escaped, the two next to the leviathan died in their office

[vernal rapids]

Us before and after the Season of Duets.

[waxen ermine]

For anyone who’s watched that 5 minute clip of Two Embers, you see ||light travelling through pipes, like they’re harvested from||

Artbook says darkness comes from the void/absence of light
So if you keep a light creature alive and keep harvesting light without ending its life
What takes place in its body where there used to be light?

Assuming they’re kept alive, because, nobody ends their cows just to get milk, or chickens for eggs, or sheep for wool, they let them stay alive

Plus it’s easier than constantly capturing new mantas

[vernal rapids]

The Nine Colored Deer Season also showed us an actual light creature crab.
Also that Abyss quest was terrifying.

[vernal rapids]

I think the krills are specifically a darkened version of Elder Mantas in particular, based on that mural. And I'm guessing the Leviathan is a krilled Whale.

[copper obsidian]

i thought of that too the first time i saw them

[vernal rapids]

Interestingly enough I feel like we just experienced something similar to those experiments during the Days of color. We equipped colored capes and saw that color get literally sapped from us to those Elevator Darkstones.

Of course it was voluntary, but the point is, each time we operate a mechanism, we are giving light to Darkstones.

[red pond]

So, the Golden Wasteland; after coming across one of those big weapons like spears and swords scattered around, was there like a war that happened long ago?

If so, who were they fighting against, or who are the two sides?

Actually, it feels more like a krill apocalypse that happened. (If I’m getting it right)

[brave patio]

I think there was something in the art book about the void “possessing” light creatures?

[vernal rapids]

I once heard a theory it may have been a war between those who were for Darkstone technology, and those who were against it. Some of it seems based upon there being two different shield emblems.

A lot of it appears be speculation at this point, but Two Embers could provide some much needed context for this and other aspects of Sky lore.

After all, one of the trailer shots is a pre-corruption GW.

[red pond]

Yeah just by watching the trailer of it, you’re quite right; there might’ve been one

[red pond]

Also that’s an information to keep in mind

[solid cave]

hi, i'm sorry to interrupt, but who's this?

[long vessel]

I asked the same thing a little while back, I don't think we really know/have many theories yet, I'd love to hear what people think

[solid cave]

ahh, i see. okay! well, i guess i could throw my hat in the ring- i think they might be a past self of the golden wasteland's elder, or one of their subjects

[manic cave]

(spoilering because it's two embers related)
Yall PLEASE tell me I'm not crazy or that there has been a theory like this already

[red pond]

The Hopeful Steward is the main protagonist?

[manic cave]

perhaps just saw the similarities in the hairstyle and thought huh

[red pond]

They could be the same person, or (which I’m not sure of) could just be different people with same hairstyle

[red pond]

Actually now that I think about it, it kinda feels like he is: but that’s just my thoughts.

[vital glade]

It’s close but not exact, but hey we’ll see :D

[versed mirage]

Yea they seem WAY too similar to not have some connection.

[vernal rapids]

Indeed. I've also been looking at various murals as well, to see if they're be relevant content for Two Embers.

[versed mirage]

Considering we have 0 lore on anything about hopeful steward, I would not be surprised if he dies right where we find him at the start of the game.

[vernal rapids]

Considering the focus Steward had lately, and the Two Embers trailers, I think they will play a bigger role than we initially assume.

[versed mirage]

The question still is, if they’re the steward or not. Actually… the Steward has knowledge of Eden and kind of how stuff works. How can someone have that knowledge if they haven’t been to those places before?

[rain frost]

doesn't that make it a little more likely that the long-haired child from the trailers is the steward? we see them go to eden in the trailer, or at least to vault and they can see eden from there. i imagine they have at least some knowledge of what was going on there and they fill in the blanks with what they see when we awaken them.

[manic cave]

i do think the hopeful stewards quite important to sky lore, their season literally changed a major part of the game in adding aviary village, and in the "new" timeline of playing the game essentially makes them the first spirit we meet and free canonically, sooo

[grizzled vector]

I think it has been mentioned that this is an old model that was used for one of the ancestor spirits in the beta version of the game. It's unclear if there is any actual reason for it being there, other than just being a little "easter egg" for folks to find.

The "candle holder" is apparently called a "bird shrine" and from what I understand the Return Shrine at home used to look like this. There also used to be some of them in the realms and you could meditate there to go back to Home. These were removed later since they were kinda redundant and confusing the moths.

So, keeping all of that in mind, it could be a Statue To The Soldier Who Hopes To Return Home. Or a "dead body" of someone who was trying to do that. But again, could also just be an easter egg.

[solid cave]

omg the extra lore bits are tugging at m'heart strings thankie sm </3
The Soldier Who Hopes to Return Home... sounds like he didn't get to go home ;-;
and even if it isnt allat, it probably being a proto-ancestor is awesome, it looks like it woulda had some sweet artifacts
i kinda like the idea of the bird shrines, you think that's what they put in the shattering memories?

[grizzled vector]

I'm not sure, I wasn't around back when these were a thing. I suspect they replaced "bird shrines" with their current look before the Season of Shattering came about, but can't confirm 100%

There is a hypothesis that the "bird shrines" were really shrines to the "megabird" (also known as "The Light") but it is far from obvious from just looking at them (they look more like whale tales than birds, and without seeing the concept art the player would have no way of knowing that "megabird" is even a thing that exists)

[north bronze]

the fact that they're titled "Steward" sells it for me, a steward serves their king or jarl

[stiff tangle]

I'm convinced Sky children are carnivorous.

[foggy glacier]

does anyone know if the visual display of the spirits in AURORA's concerts are considerd part of the lore?

[celest birch]

Where even is that?

[long vessel]

In Wasteland's Graveyard, if you've ever seen the catapult, it's directly next to that (if not, the catapult and the knight are both on an elevated rock to the right of the main entrance, between the entrance and the bonfire)

[celest birch]

Given how AURORA serves as a storyteller, it can be the same case as with Iliad and Odyssey: actual events, heavily shrouded in mythical elements, especially when it comes to areas where she herself is the center.

[foggy glacier]

could it be she is the ''sky goddes''?

[strange flare]

I figured out why the mural not make it to the final cut

It's because the implication of manta eggs I think

when I think the evolutionary line should go as follows

I do think butterflies also is the common ancestors to all light creatures we know of

[waxen ermine]

Interesting thought!

[strange flare]

If it was the civil war I think they used smaller weapons (in AURORA concert)

I think the giant weapons are for krills though, considering most ancestors aren't that big

[red pond]

That’s another information I didn’t know of. Also the Krills can use weapons??

[strange flare]

I thought it was the people fighting krills

considering how big krills are

in the Seed of Hope memory, one of the soldiers beat up a small krill with a smaller spear

[red pond]

Wait I think I got that the wrong way around oops

[brave patio]

I feel like they’re meant to be the steward of aviary village rather than the King

Plus the second child according to an interview is supposed to be going against the King, trying to stop darkstone production and protect light creatures

[spiral vault]

That would be interesting, althouigh it raises up some plot questions

I dislike the star wars prequels for returning everything to the status quo at the end; there's no gaps left, the fate of all the characters are covered in detail. If you haven't watched the original trilogy, why would you care about Luke and Leia being mentioned at the end of episode 3?

Two Embers is technically a prequel story-wise, and it would be weird for the story to suddenly focus on Aviary Village right after the Eden stuff

[north bronze]

just makes too much sense for me that they're titled Prince/King and Steward, i will continue to think the way i do

[spiral vault]

Stewardship: " the careful and responsible management of something entrusted to one's care"

In my opinion, it refers to the manatee

Also, the name of Steward is confirmed to be important by TGC

[north bronze]

as i said, i'll continue to think the way i do

[spiral vault]

The big question is, how will they interact? Because we haven't actually seen the two children interact with each other

[brave patio]

I feel like it’s implied that there’s some sort of passage of time? Given that it’s pretty much confirmed that one child becomes the King, and they seem to be an adult ruling the Kingdom at the same time that the potentially Steward kid is a child with a lil manatee (and the Kingdom is falling apart)

I mean presumably we’ll find out for sure when two embers comes out

[feral cedar]

Hey, is there any currently existing lore about the Eden elder? Also ping me pls

[plain fern]

If I had to create a storyline about this, the main cause is probably the elder was given the role by megabird, it was also during a time of great darkness

[north bronze]

7 stars fell from the sky and landed on the Kingdom in the Clouds

these 7 stars were the prince, and the 6 elders (1 of those stars split into 2 upon landing (source needed) to form the valley twins)

the people who lived in the Kingdom in the Clouds, the Ancestors (the people who we see as spirits), made the Elders the leaders for each realm

the prince - the 7th star - was made ruler of the Kingdom after he fullfilled the trials prophecy, travelled through the lands and shared the powers gained from said trials

the prince is the Elder of Eden

the Bird of Light (Megabird) simply creates life and recycles light as part of the soul cycle. i hold very firm believes that the Bird of Light holds no direct conscience impact, but is rather a force of cosmic nature so to speak

[feral cedar]

Who is this megabird?

[north bronze]

in short: god/the creator, a big nebulous* mass of lights in space

[north bronze]

slightly longer, but not as long as it could be if i had the energy & effort to give:

the massive light that we fly towards in orbit; the light that all spirits and skykids migrate to in order to ascend (or be reborn, for the case of skykids)

-all experienced souls ascend to the Bird of Light at the end of their lives, and are reincarnated to live as new inexperienced souls, as part of the "soul-cycle".
-however, skykids - us - aren't sent back as new souls. we're just reborn into the same soul, the same vessel, the same experience and the same memories. because we're basically immortal in the sense that "dying" is just a part of our weekly routine
-i can't quite explain the Ancestor Spirits that we've helped ascend, who stay back to live in the Aviary, rather than be reincarnated as part of the soul-cycle. maybe they're just "god's special chosen"

[spiral vault]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

Here

[long vessel]

I agree with this and with what Void was saying, I feel like "steward" more describes the caretaking role they've taken on, as a caretaker of light creatures, of reviving the realms as a whole, and especially of Aviary. Like, even the scenery changes of Aviary as we unlock everything there kinda backs this up in my mind. It went from dark and foggy and desolate to bright and thriving.

They also are seemingly really respected by the other spirits, but they themselves seem really humble (and even somewhat shy, looking at how they stood during the 5-person house party).

I feel like they could have possibly known the king and maybe even been friends with them at some point, but I'd be a little surprised if they were the King's steward or advisor, considering how young they seem. To me, it seems more likely that the king would be listening to Vault scholars and the Elders, primarily, for any kind of official advice.

[long vessel]

I'm really interested in that last part where it says, "The way the player discovers and uncovers this space is also somewhere to look for hints"

Now I need to check the Aviary wiki to look at the order the spirits are unlocked in and hopefully see pics of the process, I wonder what we might be able to find out from that

[brave patio]

https://sky-children-of-the-light.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amity206/Sky_Lore_Theories

I’ve got a lot of stuff here, but I really need to update it - I’ll try and do that tonight

[vernal rapids]

This has to be deliberate, right?

[solid cave]

that's in the golden wasteland, beside the catapult in the graveyard

oh i se that's been answered already hehehe, my bad

[iron forum]

Do we have any clues as to how exactly the Eye of Eden got to the state where it is now? Like a series of events to its ruin per se?

[rugged swan]

Anywhere I could read a good lore breakdown for Sky? Or a YouTube video even

[brave patio]

Just posted it but here it is again:

https://sky-children-of-the-light.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amity206/Sky_Lore_Theories

I promise I’m updating it soon

[charred willow]

Has anyone talked about what this could mean yet?

[strange flare]

no clue, but I have finally realized I was wrong about the Vault's mantas.

It was probably indeed a projection, as I have recently found the manta projector in one of the shared spaces, it is so beautiful. But it now makes sense, the scholars in the Vault want to preserve memories.

The memory mantas carry those lamps on their backs and flies in a predetermined path, unlike the mantas we see in the Bird's Nest or Sanctuary Island.

And it explains why the manta in the Summit would vanish instead of flying away.

It was all a burning memory (/j) (/ref)

[solid cave]

😭 not the ref
but yeah! the mantas are absolutely a projection, i felt that when i saw the bones laying in one of the levels of the vault
and they're starry, reminding me of the memories shown throughout the game, them soaring up into the sky

and the vault is indeed for storing things- storing memories, history, knowledge (as is the name)

what i want to know is what's up with the crown in the last constellation after meditating at the summit

[rain frost]

People think that represents the King - an antagonist form the concept art. He was gonna be like the final boss of Eden but it got scrapped. Regardless there is still evidence of him in murals and whatnot, and he might appear in the upcoming animated series The Two Embers

(I'm not an expert yet, somebody fill in the gaps if you'd like hfjdjd)

[vernal rapids]

I think the Wiki calls them Spirit mantas, which may imply something darker if it's true, but I think a case could be made for them being projections.

[solid cave]

i'd love to have seen the king... maybe he made the crystal/volcano that is eden's eye?

[vernal rapids]

Most about what we know about the King comes from concept art and murals. If I recall, the concept art called him Resh, and had names for the other Elders as well.
It's implied that the child that fell from the Stars in an Isle of Dawn memory was the King's origin. The Trials murals suggest that he conquered the Trials himself, and it's implied that he was responsible for the giant corrupted Darkstone in Eden.
Considering Two Embers will be a Prequel taking place before the Catastrophe, there's a chance we'll get more context.

[rain frost]

Do they have an official name? The spirit that teaches you their call is called Memory Whisperer - not very specific like the other ones, Bird Whisperer etc. I think "memory" could imply either ghosts or just projections, like stored footage of them

[vernal rapids]

I don't know if there's an official name or not.

[solid cave]

what's up with this?

additionally, why did we wake up the elders anyway? they kinda all said goodbye to us after we did our thing then... uhh yeah

[rain frost]

Where is that? I've never seen it

[solid cave]

that's in a hole on the leftest side of the isle of dawn, before you get to the steps up to the temple
you get to the very end down in the tunnel

[rain frost]

I think there's a spirit memory in there, I haven't relived it in awhile but maybe that would provide context

[wraith acorn]

Continuing to the discussion in #questions-and-help about the isle map shrine false positive bug, I'm not sure if it's the perfect place for that but since this channel is more cozy and I'm theorizing I have a technical theory regarding the false map shrine positives and the wl
I theorize that the flare decorations in the game (especially around Eden in various maps) are also technically boosted wls (beginner players often confuse them and want to collect the lens flares as wl), and could have been a reason for map shrine bugs in various areas. Either isle can have an additional wl or because of its movement from temple to boat for Eden moths the map shrine might not register it correctly in its place or position and it could create the map shrine bug
(just theorizing!)

[orchid crypt]

Ah apologies, I didn't realise you had moved it over here -- I can't say I had thought about the lens flare graphics in Eden, but I've never noticed those having an effect on map shrines. I personally don't think those graphics are related to any map shrine bugs.

If you already saw the message I pinged you on in #general-sky-discussion, I stand by what I said that recorded video proof likely won't convince you given that it can be edited or otherwise faked -- I don't believe anything other than real-time or personal experience would be enough to convince you that 6 wings exist in Isle.

[wraith acorn]

I meant in other realms the flare around Eden, not inside Eden. This thought entertains me for a while!

Don't assume what I think! 🚫 I would be very happy even with an edited video about someone oob specialist as well!

[orchid crypt]

Hmm, actually -- would you be open to the idea of making a new account (assuming you're able to) and having me guide you through the game in order to set up the 6 wings?

[karmic veldt]

I think i understand what spearmonkey is saying

If youre a new player, you can see the winged light at the end of the temple in Isle of Dawn. After you have gone through Eden, the winged light by the boat appears. You can't see them both at once.

So to get all 6 winged light in Isle, you have to be a new player to collect the winged light at the temple in Isle. Then you have to get through Eden and glitch through with piggyback to skip to the dark room when you hug the child, and then get reborn without losing any winged light.

Then you can go back to Isle and collect the extra winged light by the boat. Then you will have all 6 winged light in isle

[wraith acorn]

Of course! I will be happy to experiment. I will have time to do this project next week if you don't mind. (I haven't collected a single wax in game today and irl "dailies" are starting to overwhelm this weekend )

[orchid crypt]

Sure -- in that case, DM me when you're happy and have created a new moth account to try this experience on (very important thing to mention here: do not lose any winged light if you can afford it, as that can mess up the entire experiment)

[orchid crypt]

That's what I'm saying, yeah -- the issue would in how one is supposed to prove this to another person while reasonably demonstrating that nothing is faked (as videos can be cut and edited, and I don't think Sky would allow you to record continuously for over an hour to begin with). Only way I can see this being proven to someone beyond doubt is for it to be done in real-time

[wraith acorn]

Yes I also get it! I wonder whether it is because there are two , or map shrine gets triggered because of winged light position as well. Also a dev said there are so many variables in Sky that many times bugs are not that simple and therefore there might be a third or fourth element triggered because of the wl movement and that could create the map shrine bug! The bug also wandered in the past patches and there were several map shrine bugs with same nature when map shrines were introduced but no new winged lights were added to the game around that time. So who knows what creates the bug in coding side

[wraith acorn]

Again, I would be happy already with a video. if we have a video, some people already could replicate it.

But exploring together is great too!

[wraith acorn]

Sure, I will contact you and if you have anything in mind regarding the experiment, let me know instructions about collecting winged lights in the meantime!

[orchid crypt]

There's nothing super specific to it besides being very careful you don't lose any winged light (at the risk of losing the Isle Temple wing which only appears on the first playthrough). Once Eden is reached, some more specific OOB antics (likely piggyback rocket and a prop) will be needed to get to the dark room, it's really just going through rebirth and picking up the new Isle wing at the boat (assuming that hasn't been changed) that's needed.

[orchid crypt]

Update/correction: Eden skipping is not needed to prove the existence of a 6th Isle wing -- starting from a new account and getting to Valley of Triumph is enough (the game will allow you to return to the earlier realms at that point, and the boat wing has already spawned).

All that's required is a new game moth go into Isle to collect the Isle Temple wing, proceed through the game to Valley, then go Home and re-enter Isle to confirm that the Boat wing has spawned despite never losing the Isle Temple wing.

(If you wish to confirm that on the map shrines, then you'll also need to collect all 3 Isle spirits to get them out of the way so you can see the missing wing indicators)

[orchid crypt]

Looks like a 99 second screen recording is already bigger than this server's upload limit of 100mb, but linked is a video of an account seeing a missing wing in Isle on the map shrine, then picking up the Boat wing and seeing no more missing map shrine indicators in Isle.

Can't say it definitively proves that there're 6 wings in Isle (even if I'm claiming that you can't make the missing wing indicator go away without collecting 6 Isle wings), but it shows the Isle map shrine with no missing wings.
https://streamable.com/zn68vc

Edit: on second thoughts, this isn't a good example of a controlled experiment. Never mind the fact that additional wings were picked up in order to fly faster, this was also an account born at Home rather than Aviary -- that's enough of a variation to cast doubt on the test conditions.

[north bronze]

it looks tangible/touchable* from (almost) every realm

[north bronze]

they open up the paths & doors for us into the next realms

[solid cave]

there's a winged light at the end of the isle temple??

[solid cave]

ohh they're guards of the realms, didn't pick that storytelling up, ty

[orchid crypt]

2:20 in this video — it only appears for players who haven’t gone far enough into the game to reach Valley yet

https://youtu.be/rJlfPgzrzBk?si=2z6ovc1UQ4Cgv8K0

[uncut solar]

Alright, here's my stupid theories that are very probably wrong cauz i just have 3 weeks of playtime and haven't read anything lore related
uuuh

1. I think we are children of darkness that is using light, because our actual body is really dark, the only thing that is light related is our clothing and candle, which we turn back into our shadow self once we run out of light
2. We are in purgatory, everytime we are at the gates of heaven in orbit, we literally go back at the start, a never ending loop. THERE ARE SPIRITS THAT HAS NEVER ASCENDED EITHER--
   a purgatory made of candle runs, the horror /j

ya

[north bronze]

2:
the massive light that we fly towards in orbit; the light that all spirits and skykids migrate to in order to ascend (or be reborn, for the case of skykids) is known as Megabird (i call it Bird of Light), this is effectively our creator/god

-all experienced souls ascend to the Bird of Light at the end of their lives, and are reincarnated to live as new inexperienced souls, as part of the "soul-cycle".
-however, skykids - us - aren't sent back as new souls. we're just reborn into the same soul, the same vessel, the same experience and the same memories. because we're basically immortal in the sense that "dying" is just a part of our weekly routine

"THERE ARE SPIRITS THAT HAS NEVER ASCENDED EITHER--"
-i can't quite explain the Ancestor Spirits that we've helped ascend, who stay back to live in the Aviary, rather than be reincarnated as part of the soul-cycle. maybe they're just "god's special chosen"

[solid cave]

so... if old players get the col, then go to the end of the temple... will they see a sparkly residue or not? (i watched the whole video basically, skipping the travel parts i knew the music is really beautiful still)

[uncut solar]

Aah i see :)
thanks for the clarification

[north bronze]

no we don't, it just stays on our map of the Isle as a visual bug,...never going away =_=

[solid cave]

is it because we're made of rock and other spirits are way more light than us, so we have something left behind if we lose our light but they don't because they're fully light?

i say made of rock bc bonking into rock doesn't hurt that much

[foggy glacier]

i like to think that the void corrupted stuff sutch as sark dragons (or krill) dark crabs and dark water are all just things or creatures who ran out of light and then where corrupted by darkness. so that we aren't creatures of darkness but just turn darker because we get corrupted by the darkness. also a reason why we heal from laid out fireplaces because it's light chases the darkness away that corrupts us

[north bronze]

as for us being "children of darkness" -

we have 3 main aspects of our being according to old concept arts:

1. flame - our inner flame & ability to control/manipulate light & our life source
2. Ancestors - our ability to interact with items, props & presumably technology (and our humanoid form)
3. creatures - our ability to use light in order to fly, and something to do with our capes being feathered

source: https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1

[foggy glacier]

i dont know if it makes sense tho

[north bronze]

well actually the krill originated from captured & experimented on manta/multi-winged manta, and their eggs (*see Season of Abyss/murals)

crabs are believed to be more of a "neutral" creature, rather than necessarily light or dark

[orchid crypt]

Old players won’t see a sparkling residue at the temple exit, the game outright doesn’t show any existence of the other wing for you — either the Isle Temple wing appears, or the one on the boat on the beginning

[north bronze]

i forgot to add this image, oops

[uncut solar]

Oooh!
That's interesting

[foggy glacier]

does anyone know where all the krill come from? like the krill that appear in the cutscene at the end of wasteland or the krill from the season of the nine coloured deer? with that i meen were do they live or hide when they aren't there?

[north bronze]

my assumption is that they were just random rogue krill that were aimlessly wandering, rather than the regular krill we see stuck on loop in their watchposts (*9 coloured deer krill)

[uncut solar]

Well,,,, after someone opened the gates at the end of wasteland, I've seen one Krill appear out of a body of water, next the destroyed castle thingy, in which you can stand in
so uh,,,,
the ground?

[foggy glacier]

oooh.... but why are the krill on watch posts?

[north bronze]

Season of Abyss there are krill underwater, so it's possible

[foggy glacier]

imagine the dune sound track from when that big worm came out of the ground playing in that cutscene

[north bronze]

this is just from my own head, but krill, after being corrupted & turned from manta, are now just machine-like husks "programmed" to stay guard and loop around their respective Wasteland/Eden areas

[north bronze]

even after the world has died, they can't move on. they're still just looping around their stations, even though there's nothing left to watch

[foggy glacier]

but for who?

[north bronze]

the King & his side of the military, i assume
this is something that may be addressed in the animation

[foggy glacier]

ah, that makes sense... why are they at war? (i dont know a lot of lore)

[solid cave]

so we have a light core, but we aren't made from light are we

[solid cave]

i love when they give ya a lil heart animation if you free them from the pot
but yeah they don't give off light or darkness, they just... bonk!

[north bronze]

there are a lot of debates over our anatomy and what our fundamental structure would be like, but as for what seems to be definitive on what's made of light:
our capes, our hair, our clothing

[solid cave]

dang, it's just gone welp, hope that bug gets fixed fr

[solid cave]

our hair???? OH YEAH WE HAVE NO HAIR WHEN WE LOSE THE LIGHT that's so smart

[north bronze]

uhm the war(s?) have a multitude of potential reasons, but the main reasons being that the mass production of refined darkstone, and the giant shattering diamond in Eden was causing a mess of issues for the ecosystem & some people (and a lot of animals) hated this

[solid cave]

this sounds like an allegory for something...
looks outside

[north bronze]

just a couple of things regarding anatomy (old concept for skykids)
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[faint pawn]

"what's in that head of yours?"
"hehe, space"

[solid cave]

the one on the left looks like one of them chakra illustrations

[north bronze]

it also reminds me of skeleton rigging in 3D animation

i personally think we're just Winged Light with skin & a core of flame

[solid cave]

do we consume the souls of long gone skids...? and skadults?

[north bronze]

i don't think we "consume" anything - we "store" wax, and we "store" Winged Light (previous Sky Children), and add it to our own reserves until it's ready to be spent (wax), or ascended at Eden (Winged Lights)

^ that's just what i assume tbh
i'm not sure if it's canon, but i'm very certain we are living beings (-edit-"all living beings are created from the Megabird" - we came from the Megabird)
& i believe it's canon that we are immortal beings, given that our purpose is to die and be reborn every week

with this information, i have beliefs that we don't need to breathe, eat, consume or anything like that, but we do because it's a luxury
-eating: tea tables, snack tables, picnic benches, grannies, cafe, etc
-breathing: idle stance breathing animation / underwater oxygen bar & bubbles

[solid cave]

well if we drown we have to get back the light

[north bronze]

my 2 thoughts on Winged Lights:

option 1

1. we start the game flying through the clouds, as a child of light with 14 cape wedges.
2. we fall down to the Aviary, capeless, but a child of light nonetheless; despite having no Winged Light.
3. we (re)obtain our first Winged Light in the Isle of Dawn - theoretically, this is another "previous" Sky Child, rather than a piece of your own light/body.
4. upon being reborn in in Orbit, you return to the world with at least 1 Winged Light, which is part of YOU. not some other "previous Sky Child" Winged Light, but a piece of your light. The same goes for Wing Buffs (like gaining muscle mass or fat).

---

option 2

1. we start the game flying through the clouds, as a child of light with 14 cape wedges.
2. we fall down to the Aviary, capeless, but a child of light nonetheless; despite having no Winged Light.
3. we (re)obtain all of our original(?) Winged Light scattered all across the Kingdom's Realms as we were falling from the clouds.
   this is why there are so many Winged Lights scattered? they aren't "previous sky children", but they're parts of your own light that you lost during the fall.

tl;dr - option 1 is the currently widely believed "Winged Light are Skykids who fell before us"
option 2 is my justification for where (most of) our Winged Light goes after we fall at the (new) beginning of the game
-a thought process i began after floofi!'s message above mine-

"2. we fall down to the Aviary, capeless, but a child of light nonetheless; despite having no Winged Light."
-we seem to only become "dark" (lost cape, hair, clothes) after losing our light via corrupting elements - being hit by Krill, storm, darkstone, and being soaked in polluted rain/water

the only instance i can think of where we become "dark" outside of these methods of losing light, are by drowning underwater after a long period of time
-drowning is just as natural/uncorrupted as falling from a great height. i wonder why we stay as a child of light in the Aviary's intro, but we lose our light & become dark after waiting long enough to drown underwater

*this thought process might be wrong, it's been a while since i created a new account for the new intro, and i can't exactly remember what our wing meter looks like once we gain control of our capeless character

[brave patio]

I think there maaaaay be a daily called “meditate with the spirit mantas” but don’t quote me on this, I’ll have to check

[brave patio]

I think it’s a light shrine? You can see it in several places, including slumbering shipwright’s house and the remembrance area (as well as where you took the picture, which i assume is the piggyback lightseeker caves)

It could be used to represent carrying the light, either to factories or the megabird?

[solid cave]

we started with 14 wedges??

[brave patio]

I think in the nearest intro cutscene we do, before losing it and falling from the sky

[north onyx]

Our hair has bones?!

[spiral vault]

I think it's just symbolic, like how our inner light is always with us

[spiral vault]

My theory is, they're teaching us.

[spiral vault]

As for 1: What even is darkness, if not just the abscence of light?

[solid cave]

even the HAIR has bones!

[rain frost]

any other lore enjoyers at the keynote vibing with the two embers footage

[urban flint]

I'm screaming seeing these in game

And two possible seasons!

The lore we can get from these two

[spice crane]

SO MUCH LORE

vibrating violently theres so much to unpack here !!

[arctic sphinx]

Guys, these are the kids name in Two Embers. The very short hair is Dawn and the kid similar to hopeful stewart is Dusk

[median mica]

Was so hyped when I saw the “reveal more lore” line 🙌

[arctic sphinx]

Seems like he's ready to do something

[north bronze]

i remember just a few days ago when people were telling me that they think it's unlikely there will be 2 possible seasons based from this.
feelin smug

[rain frost]

I was thinking about their names (Dawn for the prince and Dusk for the steward) and I think they indicate what era of the kingdom we will see with each of their childhoods
Dawn - the prophecy has just been fulfilled and the kingdom is beginning to flourish
Dusk - the darkness is growing and the kingdom's destruction is iminent

[north bronze]

interesting take, my initial thought was that it correlates to where they're (potentially) found/born
since we know that the prince was found/fell down to the Isle of Dawn, perhaps it could be the same for Dusk/"Steward"'s story

[molten mortar]

Just now they have shown a scene from their testing for warrior’s manta, where the manta was flying in a broken citadel of valley and we have never seen this before (I supposed). Much like what we have seen for the broken forest temple in the GW.

[strange harness]

I don't usually come here aside from when I lurk and read y'all's amazing theories and interpretations, but....... oh my gosh, that Two Embers information during the keynote how are we feeling, Lorechat? Years in the making!!

[twilit elm]

Oop my chat got removed but here, if im first to speculate this i wanna share now :
Oh my god i lit have chills for i just realised the way we skykids fit into the lore of moomin and vice versa. We're gonna be The invisible Child?!? Its SO hinted at the teaser on YT, when that Ninny character is last before collab text appears Look up The Invisible Guest in Moominvalley (=the book, episode title below)

I never expected this and im hypedddd anyone else?!?! I mean, getting to BE a Moomin character maybe?? I thought Moomins would come to Sky not skykids to Moominvalley but but idk im sure im right ab this character!!

Edit: Found better link https://www.moomin.com/en/characters/ninny-the-invisible-child/

[echo chasm]

THATS WHAT IM MISING OUT ON?! shucks! i only can see darkness

[rain frost]

it could be both esp cause we do see Dusk in wasteland in one trailer

[north bronze]

seems darkness is ever-growing in the Kingdom, these ore deposits weren't here before in Prairie Peaks, at least not that i'm aware of

i wonder if there is a decoded version of Sky's "language" somewhere, and if so, what Vault Elder's headpiece has inscribed into it

i can't remember who, but someone asked about the legitemacy of the Valley Twins' prosthetics being canon - here are their models ingame (Vault > Eden OOB)

just a fun observation (i don't often look back or check behind me when going through Eden), but for those wondering, you can see that the Vault is indeed a tower embedded at the base of Eden's mountain

one final thing, i have a really difficult time figuring out the structure of Eden (specifically what's underneath the floating structure)
my closest line-up for it would be what StarryScarrab speculates to be the Ark (which also doubles up as an entrance towards the PNR area), shown in the bottom picture

*it's pretty clear to me that the floating structure is what we fly through after death/towards Orbit

actual final thing for now:
this mural in Eden hits differently now huh

[north bronze]

tbh it's looking more & more like "both" is the case, and they didn't actually live during the same time - which i thought they did, before tonight (i thought they even had a personal relationship to one another (friends, prince/servant or whathaveyou)

*especially given that you can already see the erected Eden during Dusk's timeline, implying that the King is already an adult & active (and some info on the wiki)

[rain frost]

i was just wondering about the structure of eden, this is lines up rlly well. but where do u think is the sliding/flying area before we fly up past the castle? bc it cant be where the ark is if that's also the pnr area, and i just dont see where else it could be (might just have to see for myself when i do eden haha)

[north bronze]

so, the floating structure is where we fly/slide through towards orbit, and the ark is the PNR/storm area

above the floating structure, after we've flown through it, then we pass the smaller, even higher-up floating structure that is the Castle

the snowy sliding area with the jellyfish (i assume you mean) is inside the floating structure, as a part of the (what i assume to be) city - the entire structure isn't manmade, there is rock and debris all over

[rain frost]

ohh i see, like the thing that's floating above the ark? (in the bottom-most image of ur collage)

[north bronze]

this is the door at the bottom of the floating structure. directly after we die, hug ourselves, and fly upwards through the beam

immediately going through the door, we are sliding on snow and what looks to be naturally-made rock, and then we are presented by the manmade city

[north bronze]

oh, no no, that floating thing is a completely different shape to the "floating structure" that we fly through
to me, that just looks like extra debri/part of the "ark area" if that makes sense

*as you can see, the "ark" is still within the clouds. but the "floating structure we fly through after death" is above the clouds

[rain frost]

yeah i see what u mean about it being a different shape,,, where is it then? in the silhouette of eden that we can see from any of the realms, there is only one floating thing above the mountain and then a flurry of clouds. is that floating thing where we slide through and then the castle is in the clouds?

[north bronze]

yes, the castle is much further up (makes sense if the King was trying to reach the stars)

here is a VERY CRUDE "drawing" of how it is from my perspective:

the Castle is so far up that we can only see it upon exiting the floating structure and continuing in altitude into Orbit

(i don't have pictures sadly, but attempt to look behind you while flying towards the Castle next time you're there)

*as for where the floating thing is (#lore-discussion-spoilers message), i couldn't tell you. maybe it was just a missed detail they forgot to add when you're looking from other realms. but this is my issue - i can't figure out what the red thing (picture above) is when looking from the realms. my closest guess is that it's the "ark/PNR", but even then, it doesn't line up perfectly. i've explored a bunch to try and figure it out, i just can't pre-TwoEmbers

[rain frost]

ah i see!! thank you for explaining your research i never knew eden had so many levels above the ground haha

[north bronze]

i know this is purely just gameplay "exit instance A, enter instance B" type thing, but it's also intersting (to me) that we can't really see "where" we come from, a planet, or anything once we enter orbit. it's just nothingness (and one could argue that space is just nothingness, but if you flew upwards from earth & looked behind you, logically there should be an Earth visible behind you)

i mean nothing serious with this particular one. just fun observations

[strange flare]

something I notice is that the crystal in the mural resembles the portal gate we use to leave The Orbit

(The streaks I mean, not the crystal)

[north bronze]

it does, it looks like the refined darkstone battery that's used to power the Vault elevator. and if you look, the platform looks like the elevator too, along with 6 pillars (statues?) next to him, i assume to represent the elders & realms

*oh i just seen your edit. yes the energy emanating looks like the streaks of Light in orbit/after life

[rain frost]

yeah, it also resembles the symbol for Orbit on the map (sorry i cant find a picture rn but yeah its the streaks)

[north bronze]

to me, the mural either represents what we see in the animation (spoiler images attached), OR the initial activation of the Vault

[rain frost]

oh yeah it looks exactly like the end of vault. kinda weird since this is in eden and you'd think an image of The King with a Diamond would be about eden (which, it can kind of also be? because its a mountain? but the statues and the platform are so vault-summit)

[north bronze]

given that the platform & refined darkstone both look like the vault elevator, and given the 6 pillars/statues, and given the people praying, i would like to believe that this mural is actually the story of the Vault's activation/opening ceremony, or something along those lines

and i know right? but i guess 90% of the lore is open to interpretation, lol

[rain frost]

im gonna go insane if the Vault's opening is a scene in The Two Embers and we get a shot that strongly mimicks that mural

[north bronze]

to be honest, i think we might see younger Elders as well as their stories to how they became leaders (i might be reaching and hoping too much though), but from what i know, the Prince & Elders fell from the stars at the same time. and if the Prince is a child in some part of the animation, then surely the Elders will be (relatively) young, too? maybe not necessarily as young as the Prince, but still young

i also have a firm belief that we already see a young Forest Elder in the older teasers, although i'm probably way off with that

[waxen ermine]

Also they referred to the prince as an orphan

Which is strange, he fell from the sky and then got adopted by two people (mama ponytail and papa boatmask)

Does that mean both his adoptive parents died?

[north bronze]

going by the presumtion that mama ponytail & papa boatmask are Ushering Stargazing & Rejecting Voyager, they most certainly died

Ushering Stargazer, i think, died early in Dawn's life

[waxen ermine]

Oh yeah I forgot, they’re literally spirits

[north bronze]

i also like how (and this is common knowledge that the realms represent day cycles & life cycles) that they were described as "the dawn and dusk sides of the kingdom"

[waxen ermine]

Also, assuming the king is represented at each stage of his life based on each area

Then when Dusk Ember is a child, he’s a middle aged adult

[north bronze]

yaz

[brave patio]

The art book mentions that as light was taken, the void replaced it, so u think you’re on to something

I gotta check out the recap of the stream on YouTube omg

[twilit patio]

Is the reason why Eden is so messed up because industrial revolution? That's why in Eden there's so many pipe, like in factory
And also I think Krill is a biological weapon and now without proper care they are released into the wild
Sorry if this theory is too wild

[versed mirage]

Did the art gallery confirm the king sacrificed himself?

[tough tide]

Does anyone have screenshots from last nights art gallery? Or a link to a replay of the gallery walkthrough?

[spiral vault]

I think so, there's a scene in which the kid hugs a darkness-corrupted person with a ponytail

[spiral vault]

That's probably true, but wasteland also is messed up with the industrial revolution, so Eden might be hit with a double whammy of some sort

[fleet edge]

what's the sword star thingy in the elder memory

[twilit patio]

Why would sky people, needs industrial revolution? I genuinely think sky is a reference to the book of Enoch, the angel teach people to make weapon, the ark, and the creation of forbidden being (in this case is Krill)

[north bronze]

industrial revolution just seems to be the natural path that civilizations take

i agree with your reference on book of Enoch - when i first began playing Sky, i was overwhelmed with themes mixing between Christianity and Buddhism. i used to call Skykids "our little angel-bird-children-things"

*forgot to click "reply". oops

[tough tide]

Bump 😭

[north bronze]

you might have some luck over in #seasons-events-chat

[tough tide]

Thanks!

[north bronze]

np, i'm pretty sure that all the art galleries and streams will be happening again tonight, beginning and ending at the same time as lastnight (though the showings seem to be in different order)

festival tech is so weird. i'm probably sitting with a bunch of you right now

[urban oak]

do children of light age? As seen in game there are adults and elders but never child turning to one

[north bronze]

some of the Ancestors are also children:
-Boogie Kid, Confetti Cousin & Hairtousle Teen
-Hide n Seek Pioneer
-Hopeful Steward (if they are believed to be Dusk Ember)
-the Passage spirits
-more probably

obviously since this is a game, and it's rare for us to witness our characters to age or live out "full lives" in RPGs (we never grow old in fallout, skyrim, zelda, etc etc), it's hard to say whether or not we age.
i want to believe we do in-lore. but it's also established that "skykids don't grow into Elders" - though this doesn't necessarily mean we don't age or grow old.
it's also difficult to tell, since a part of our life cycle is to die and be reborn every week

[urban oak]

lol bees

[waxen ermine]

Ancestors do grow up but its not clear with sky kids (remember Bereft Veteran's child)

[north bronze]

lol BEES?!?!

[urban oak]

we are same but different with ancestors?

makes zero cents

[north bronze]

well, Elders, Ancestors and Skykids are all technically different species
-supposedly, Elders were always "Elders" (though i'm not sure if this is a title or age in the world of Sky)
-skykids do not grow up to be elders, but this doesn't mean we don't age or grow old
-ancestors most certainly do grow from children to adults

[urban oak]

also imagine encountering giant ahh guy trying to fit in portal twice smalle than him

[urban oak]

is it actually about species or races, we seem to share almost all features but size

[north bronze]

it's confirmed that we are all a different species:
-Ancestors inhabited the kingdom in the clouds
-one day, 7 Stars fell to the kingdom (this may have changed since Two Embers)
-6 of these stars were elders (one of them split into the Valley Twins), and the 7th star was the prince
-the ancestors made these stars the leaders for each realm
-the Events* of Two Embers happens
-the world is dead
-centuries later, "god" creates Skykids and sends them to the world to fix it
-the differences we have from Ancestors is that we can fly, die & be reborn (as opposed to reincarnated), and we hold the "power of flame"

so Ancestors are "human", Elders are "Human Aliens", and Skykids are "Human 2.0: evolved"

[urban oak]

this actually crazy, so basically after serving purpose of saving the world whats next to happen, or nothing about it known yet

lifespan of a fly is comical

[north bronze]

well, our purpose as Descendants/Skykids is to "restore light to the world" and "save our Ancestors by helping them to Ascend"

we've already helped our ancestors ascend. what's left is to restore light, and that's only half-working (seasonal areas do change from our contributions, but darkness still continues to spread in the form of darkstone ore, and shattering diamond shard events)

[spiral vault]

The eden elder

[urban oak]

peak gaming at last

[spiral vault]

Not us, the previous civilization of spirits

If you have to use a biblical interpretation, I guess it could be Adam and Eve gaining wisdom

[north bronze]

technically the Ancestors are sky people, given that they lived in a Kingdom in the Clouds. just not Skykids, but rather people of the sky

[urban oak]

like celestials? or sort of thing basically

ground people

[north bronze]

i think the Elders could more appropriately be referred to as Celestial people, and the Ancestors are more just "humans but who live in the sky"

not actual humans, though. i'm just using the word "human" to simplify. in the concept art, there was a human world below, and who knows what TGCs humans are compared to people of the sky

they're just a regular people, whereas Elders are the special ones (and skykids are the evolved ones)

though with a title like "Elder" it's confusing. they supposedly canonically fell to the kingdom while there was already civilization. but them being called "Elders", you'd think they'd be some kind of ancient alien who were there from the start, or something

[waxen ermine]

The lore book also strangely says that they were civilians and the prince appointed them himself
(So Im going to assume the mural was symbolic)

[urban oak]

so judging off that sky children are possibly materialised light, can be possible change in atmosphere which caused light to distort into what we are today? We cant be harmed, but can fade or solidify to rock or sort of type of thing like in eye of eden. Evolution of light itself sounds strange, but fictional world and stuff

[north bronze]

see, it's also confusing because there have been so many changes since concepts, too, as apparently the prince was "canonically" made prince/ruler after he fulfilled the trials of prophecy, and after he was being mentored by Isle Elder (and as we know, he* was already adopted by Ushering & Rejecting)

we truly will not have any concrete answers until 2025 😔

[urban oak]

huh whats on 2025

[north bronze]

Two Embers, the animation series (there are streams in-game later tonight, and lastnight - look over in #seasons-events-chat for info)

[waxen ermine]

He appointed Isle Elder as his own mentor from the way it sounds (if he appointed the elders)
(I was gonna have the idea that Rejecting Voyager is Isle Elder but then realized they have different constellations and spirit bodies)

[urban oak]

no way side quest from sky cotl oustide game itself (thnks)

[north bronze]

i think the body-type is just a game thing, tbh. we can see (who is beleived to be) Ushering Stargazer & Rejecting Voyager in the trailers, and their body-types are vastly different from how they look in game (ingame, they both have the same "chubby" body type. just different cosmetics)

i used to think that Rejecting was the Isle Elders head apprentice, or something like that. like, being mentored by Elder, but being above all other apprentices (since he wears the boat headgear)

[waxen ermine]

With the mention of all the elders being civilians at first, you could have had the theory, based on masks:

Rejecting Voyager = Isle Elder
Exhausted Dockworker= Praire Elder
Apologetic Lumberjack = Forest Elder
Fainting Warrior = Wasteland Elder
Levitating Adept = Vault Elder

But this doesnt work because they already exist as separate people on the same constellation (doesnt make sense for the same person to have two ghosts)

[north bronze]

i believe the special masked spirits are just higher-ups in society, closer in status to the Elders but not the Elders themselves

as for it making sense for 1 person to have 2 ghosts; ghosts and spirits are beyond space/time, it could happen in theory

[waxen ermine]

Also could explain how Isle Elder mentored the prince if he is Rejecting Voyager
But otherwise, prince appointed him (a random old guy) to be his mentor and isle elder

[north bronze]

for example, in the Steam Launch trailer, the guardian figure on the boat is wearing what looks to be a headpiece similar to Levitating Adept (albeit taller and thinner), ergo a higher member in society/trusted with important tasks

[winged bison]

yeee, even in Cave of Prophies, if I recall see both these spirits in the murals

[north bronze]

tbh i was speaking more about """IRL""" ghosts, i do agree with you regarding SKY ghosts that Rejecting & Isle Elder are not the same person (and therefore the other helmed ancestors & their respective Elders)

[waxen ermine]

Ohhhh

[north bronze]

though it's a possibility!

[waxen ermine]

Yes, its likely they both adopted him (and since the keynote called him an orphan), both died

My prediction for how this series basically goes:
-The prophecy says a child will become king
-The prophets dont know which child, so they send any child through trials
-Prince falls from the sky, a child of light with his chest light
-He tries his best to hide his chest light because it gains weird looks
-Ushering Stargazer and Rejecting Voyager adopt him as parents after having discovered he fell from the sky
-Both of them die of darkness sickness
-Prince is now forced to go to school (trials)
-He passes with flying colors with all the elemental lights collected
-He appoints his elders to rule over each realm
-Gives Prarie elder the earth element for abundant grass, forest elder the water element for abundant rain and rivers, air element for valley twins for entertainment, fire element for wasteland elder to put into turrets
-Also isle elder and vault elder are there on the sidelines
-He gets sent to Eden and then gets crowned king
-He discovers darkstone with forest elder, leading into a technological prosperity
-Wanting to power the whole kingdom like a power station, instead of having ton of darkstones everywhere, he has one giant diamond
-Also lots of pipes leading to that diamond
-All of this is leading to pollution, attracting krills and destroying light creature life
-Civilian protests, they use the diamond shields, the king's side has sun shields, they protect the king and win
-Wasteland elder is exhausted from war though and collapses
-For some reason, the king starts draining souls from the soul cycle beam of light to power his Eden diamond
-Draining light causes an absence, creating darkness, storms and krills to appear
-He thinks it's a genius idea to also drain darkness into the diamond (like, cleaning trash?), it turns red and is shattering under all the weight of souls
-Elders see the explosion coming, panic and try to fix it

[north bronze]

an orphan in the sense that his adoptive parents died, but also an orphan in the sense that he fell to the kingdom (was born) without a family ooooh so deep

it was much, much shorter when i made this reply

[north bronze]

i'm not sure if both of them die of darkness infection, but the mother/Ushering Stargazer is definitely there to play the sick/dying mother trope

perhaps Rejecting plays a fatherly trope of dying attempting to protect his family

[waxen ermine]

Based on the mention that he's an orphan

[winged bison]

Yep! Both of them are together seeing the fallen child laying unconscious the ground for a moment in Ushering Stargazer memory, they are also appear to be in a trailer too [though interestingly, if I remember, it looks like they are heading to Isle of Dawn, despite the childing literally falling right in isle and at the front of the part to get to the tower in game], they are also seen in the murals

[north bronze]

i wonder what role the Elder Temples played before the Elders were even there? the Isle Temple, at the very least, existed when Alef/Dawn was a child

[north bronze]

i don't think they go to the temple immediately after he falls :p he probably has a bit of a living going on inbetween falling and heading to the temple/trials

[winged bison]

makes sense

[waxen ermine]

-The king has a moment of regret and sacrifices himself to save his kingdom from probably a massive shattering event
-Oh and the Eden diamond had a minor explosion that damaged the elders as well
-They build an Eden door with their powers locking it away
-And then they die probably

[grizzled vector]

The Season of Remembrance guide also wears a similar headpiece. And Feudal Lord from Nine-Colored Deer. They seem to be more along the lines of "crowns"/"symbols of authority"

They are also different from Levitating Adept and Vault Elder headpieces (those are not only wider but also have what looks like writing on them)

Also worth nothing that Levitating Adept and Vault Elder have different headpieces – they look similar but have different writing on them. Likewise, Apologetic Lumberjack and Forest Elder have similar but actually different headpieces. Isle/Prairie/Wasteland is harder to tell apart but honestly I don't think it confirms them as same people

On the other hand, as far as "it doesn't make sense for one person to have multiple ghosts" part, that skater kid from Season of Dreams has a whole bunch of ghosts all over the place, some even in the same area

[waxen ermine]

Oh yeah, you're right!

[grizzled vector]

We've also seen "ghosts" like "Memory of a Forgotten Village" and "Spirit of a Mural" so it's possible "ghosts" are formed from memories and not necessarily from individual people per se

[north bronze]

aren't Rememberance Guide & Feudal Lord both head accessories, rather than face accessories?
i know you can combine Feudal Lord's headpiece with the regular/elder headpieces, but i was a moth in Rememberance, so naturally i didn't understand there was a season/ultimate items (i don't have Rememberance Guide's headpiece)

this could either mean that they are different in multiple contexts than Elder headpieces, or it could mean it's just a gameplay thing to let you combine headpieces (but we can't combine Elder Shields with Headpieces sadly)

[grizzled vector]

Remembrance Guide's headpiece is not an ultimate, it's not available to wear at all. Though I think technically it was a mask at a time. It was around Remembrance that they added accessories as a category to begin with (they used to come attached to your mask, so you couldn't wear them with Chibi Mask etc). Remembrance Guide had no mask or headpiece for a while after they did that, until they fixed that

Anyway, my point is that "Rejecting Voyager" could in theory be just a memory of the same person who later became Isle Elder

[north bronze]

it looks to me like Rememberance Guide and Vault Elder/Levitating Adept wear the same headpiece, reinforcing that they symbolize some kind of authority and status

[grizzled vector]

They're similar but not the same

[north bronze]

i'll have to disagree with you there - they are very clearly identical, not down to the inscriptions, but the shape and carvings. i'm attending the AURORA concert right now otherwise i'd go and see the Rememberance Guide in-person

[grizzled vector]

The inscriptions look very clearly different to me even if the overall shape of the headpiece itself could be the same. If we can't agree on that then I'm not sure what else to say

Levitating Adept's has three columns of glyphs while the Elder's has nine

[north bronze]

i just can't accept being told that they are different headpieces when i'm looking right at them, the only difference between the 3 is the inscriptions on them - further implying a difference in status

i'm not really here to argue, so i'll continue to think the way i do and leave you to it, i got a concert to pay attention to

[grizzled vector]

They're different headpieces in a sense that they're not literally the same headpiece. Like, two crowns can both be crowns but not be the same crown

[north bronze]

well that much is clear that they aren't the exact same object but rather produced, i didn't think this was even a point that had to be made

[grizzled vector]

I'm pointing this out in the context of the conversation that Levitating Adept might be the same person as the Vault Elder. This does not seem to confirm that hypothesis

[north bronze]

the only thing troubling me is their name "Adept", so their status couldn't have been incredibly high even if they are wearing a headpiece

[grizzled vector]

On the other hand, as I was saying earlier, it is possible that "Levitating Adept" is an earlier memory of the Vault Elder. If Ruler's soul shattered into multiple pieces, it's not entirely impossible that the Elders (who were present there) may have lost some pieces of themselves which manifested as their early memories

[grizzled vector]

They were adept at levitating, they could get as high as they wanted to

[north bronze]

Voyager - isle
Dockworker - prairie
Lumberjack - forest
(2 valley mask spirits)
Warrior - wasteland
Adept - vault

given all of the "headpiece spirits" titles/names, they seem to hold significance to their respective realms.

Voyager - Isle - Shepphard
Dockworker - Prairie - the only one i'm stuck on
Lumberjack - forest - the elder was a shaman/blacksmith

warrior - wasteland - the elder is a warrior leader
adept - vault - adepts are there to learn and seek improvement/knowledge?

[grizzled vector]

Now, on the third hand, Apologetic Lumberjack looks nothing whatsoever like the Forest Elder we see in the Temple, so that would seem to go against that hypothesis. But... who knows. It's all open to interpretation

[north bronze]

they all look different in my opinion, and then you get the valley twins, and the valley headpieces...the spirits for these headpieces might be twins, but they look NOTHING like the valley siblings

but each headpiece-spirit seems to have an important or related job respective to their realms & their realms elder's roles/positions

[grizzled vector]

As hinted in the Season of Passage, there seems to be a long tradition of wearing masks that are earned as a rite of passage, but they are not necessarily symbols of authority per se. The Passage spirits wore masks referencing different virtues – reliance, coordination, etc. It's possible Rejecting Voyager earned their mask by having a particular affinity with some other virtue at a later point. Maybe they were good at navigating or whatever

[static zephyr]

I actually have a question
What role did the elders play in the shattering of Eden? Also, should we probably sensor our answers to avoid spoilers for other players?

[grizzled vector]

The Valley Elders seem to be meant to be not just twins but literally two pieces of the same soul that split as it fell. Further reinforcing the concept that some of the spirits could be "fragments" of the Elders but also making it unlikely that the two similar-looking spirits in the Valley are in fact earlier memories of the Elders

[grizzled vector]

This entire channel is labeled lore-discussion-spoilers, I feel like marking our discussion as spoilers would be kinda redundant tbh

[static zephyr]

Fair enough

[north bronze]

as for spoiler-tagging, what i've been doing is spoiler-tagging things that aren't officially released yet (like Two Embers and upcoming things such as that), but most in-game things i don't spoiler tag, because in my mind, if you're in the lore channel, you've already spoiled or played through the game for yourself

[static zephyr]

Fair enough I was just thinking about the other players who probably haven’t been to Eden but please back on topic because I really want to hear what you guys think of my question

[north bronze]

in my POV, the Elders both contributed and attempted to stop the shattering of Eden, though it isn't entirely clear on the exact events that happened

[grizzled vector]

We don't really know what role the elders played in the Shattering, other than they were there. The art book seems to say that their intention for the story was the Ruler sacrificing themself in the end (and the Shattering likely being a result of that). But I haven't seen the full book so I can't confirm if that's "official canon" or just "these are the ideas we played with at some point"

The art book also mentions that the Isle Elder was the only one who did not receive "Dark Power" (but was still there during the Shattering according to the memory of the Void of Shattering)

[static zephyr]

How about some speculation then?
But I do have a theory that the shattering even if they weren’t involved in it, they tried stopping it to a degree, but if they process either got mortally injured or just got straight up “terminated” depends on how you view it
So they’re either dead or they’re just a sort of deep regenerative state

[north bronze]

you can also see that his face isn't on the Eden Door

[static zephyr]

There’s also the meeting room inside the vault of knowledge where the elders probably had a meeting right before the shattering happened judging by how the chair seems thrown about like they were in a panic or something

[grizzled vector]

The face isn't on the door but when you awaken the Isle Elder the first line on the door lights up (the one that comes up from the bottom). It makes sense the face isn't on the door since it would have had to be on the floor and that would have been awkward

[north bronze]

does that necessarily have to mean his face would be on the floor? or could the door have been carved differently to fit all elders in the middle?

[static zephyr]

Though let me ask you this why doesn’t the isles appear to have any daily quest or any big candles? Do you think it’s just a story thing or just gameplay things since the Isles is such a small area
Compared to other areas

[north bronze]

maybe the Isle Elder, as the "shepphard for new souls", and the "friendly wise grandpa" figure, didn't want to partake in the power, didn't want to contribute to all of the darkness, and decided to stay out of it all

[grizzled vector]

I'm just saying the Isle Elder is still part of opening the door, even if their face isn't on it

[north bronze]

imo it's a gameplay thing, the isle is too vast/wide, and has such little wax/candle deposits, that it would be virtually pointless

[static zephyr]

Also pretty reasonable he seems like the oldest of the elders seeing that he needs a walking stick and also the massive beard in his hunched appearance
I would also say that the vault of knowledge elder seems close behind him

[grizzled vector]

It's mostly a player experience thing. The Isle is meant to be more or less the "tutorial area" so they don't want to have too much going on there that would be confusing to new players

[north bronze]

supposedly the Vault and Forest Elders are related
both elders i always percieved to be 30-40 year old women in maturity

[static zephyr]

I mean they’re called elders for a reason. I don’t expect him to be in their 20s. XD
Jokes aside though a very reasonable point

[north bronze]

i personally take this to be a title more than a status of age - the prince supposedly in-canon arrived to the Kingdom at the same time as the Elders did, * and he was a child

[static zephyr]

Yeah, fair enough

[north bronze]

(plus valley twins don't look too old to me :p)

[static zephyr]

Also a bit of a heads up sorry if I’m a bit behind on the lore that was talked about in this channel. I’m a bit behind because burnout really hit me hard and I’m still sort of recovering

[grizzled vector]

Worth noting that supposedly Ancestors, their spirits, and the Elders in particular, don't really have gender, and are referred to as "they" in the official sources. But in all fairness it is also a bit hard to believe they have no notion of gender looking at the Isle Elder, the Forest Elder, and some of the more obviously masculine/feminine spirits

[north bronze]

nah don't be, this is the exact place to be if you're behind on lore :p

[north bronze]

yeah i mean, i'm all for it, but a lot of spirits and elders are oh so clearly gender-coded, despite the "open for interpretation" approach

i'm not gonna go around calling the bearded Isle Elder a she

[static zephyr]

OK, let me ask you guys this question then how did all the spirits end up as statues or calcified? I know it has something to do with darkness but other than that, I’m clueless

[grizzled vector]

Also I seem to recall it being mentioned that all Elders are technically "siblings" and/or "same age" even though some look much older than others. Even if Valley "twins" were younger when they were appointed "Elders" by now they're all probably centuries old anyway

[north bronze]

any answers to this question are all speculation, as it hasn't been answered or made clear why every dead person turns into charcoal

[static zephyr]

My main theory is that when the shuttering happen at a shockwave of darkness went out and is there anything like the sky kids they are candles were unlit for to long and, boom statue

[north bronze]

i honestly couldn't answer it outside of gameplay mechanics/how else are we to activate them type deal

[static zephyr]

Wait, does the art book say that they turn into charcoal specifically?

[north bronze]

well if you take a look around here:
https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1
it states that the texture is to be percieved as a somewhat charcoal-like substance

as well as darkstone being similar to transulcent jade-like substance

*this isn't the artbook, but it is concept art

[north bronze]

specifically this image here, found in the link

[north bronze]

well, i guess that it was my own interpretation & extrapolation that states the corpses are charcoal-like

[grizzled vector]

Honestly most of these things are not super clear. They didn't really start with world building. They seem to have wanted to create an experience/evoke a feeling/etc and worked backwards from there to "what kind of setting would give context to that?" For example, according to the presentation yesterday, the whole reason "ascension to orbit" part is in game was because they wanted to try and give the player the "Overview Effect" (even though it's unlikely to trigger from the experience as presented in the final game).

[static zephyr]

But not to mention that most of this channel is speculation since so far other than the confirmations that we got in the season of shattering and the bits of stories in the concert we know a little to nothing about the story

[grizzled vector]

With spirits they played around with various ideas, and one of them was having spirits stuck in a loop reliving their memories. In the end they just went with what worked best gameplay-wise and was the least confusing i think

[north bronze]

a lot of my issues with the lore is exactly this. it's too "open for interpretation" and not enough concrete answers are given

i like lore that's open to interpretation, but it feels like (to me) Sky in particular doesn't even know it's own answers, not until Two Embers releases
*i mean, they've changed the lore countless times from conceptual storyboards, to early development, to live game, to animation series, so many changes have been made (and potentially more)

[grizzled vector]

Tom Zhao's concept art does mention that creatures of light calcify into charcoal-like material when dying a violent/unnatural death (as opposed to ascending into space/dissolving into motes of light/rejoining the megabird which was the natural cycle). But then you also have white bones all around the Forest and Wasteland and Vault, even from creatures that shouldn't leave bones (like mantas). So go figure

[north bronze]

the very same art page states "unnatural death leaves behind bones", too, so it could be either

[grizzled vector]

It's also unclear if the Ancestors really count as creatures of light. The concept art that shows the Descendants as "hybrids" of Ancestors and Creatures of Light implies that the Ancestors weren't

[north bronze]

this ain't Elder Scrolls, it doesn't have to be so complicated 😂

[north bronze]

so my thoughts from this are exactly that:

Skykids are a hybrid/evolution between Ancestors, Creatures of light, and the Flame

Elders are more like aliens, but still similar in form/being to ancestors. just a bit more celestial

Ancestors = "human"
Elder = "human-like higher being/alien"
Skykid = evolved "human"

gosh i say this so many times :p

[grizzled vector]

Personally, I always say I'm pretty sure the fact that Sky is a game is part of its "lore" and really the best we can hope for here is try to guess why TGC made the choices they made, what they were going for/hoping to accomplish, etc. They do not seem to have truly deep and detailed world building timelines comparable to Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age or whatever other games that really take their lore seriously

[grizzled vector]

Pretty sure "flame" is just an aspect of The Light and not some separate third thing

[north bronze]

i percieve it to be a physical representation of light, a tangible representation that can be touched and used to activate machinery or candles

to me, it's the same, but slightly different

[grizzled vector]

Also I've seen Elders variously describes as either "the first stars to fall to the earth" or "villagers elevated to Elders by the Ruler"

[north bronze]

"light" may be our blood, where "flame" may be our beating heart

[blissful palm]

Are both of these concept stuff or one is live content?

With prophecy murals it looks like the second one to me

[grizzled vector]

In the concept art that describes Descendants as hybrids "flame" is part of the diagram that has creatures of light and also concepts like connectedness and warmth, as opposed to "darkstone" and Ancestors and ambition and technology etc

[grizzled vector]

I've seen the mentions of it in this channel, I'm not honestly sure as to the source

Anyway, I gotta leave for now. Happy speculating!

[north bronze]

i'm pretty sure both are concepts, i did read on some old Tumblr post that it was "canonically confirmed" that the Elder (and prince)'s stars fell while there was already civilization

but the Tumblr post in question didn't realyl cite any sources, just said "OMG ITS OFFICIAL"

[grizzled vector]

Yea, considering making stuff up is a big pastime on tumblr I'd take it with a big grain of salt unless they cite actual sources

But also wouldn't be surprised if it was official at some point until they reworked and retconned it either. At some point the Elders were supposedly cosmic entities responsible for stuff like advancing the day along. I'm not sure if that's still a thing

[blissful palm]

Gotta wait for tgc to remember to add elder lore to Live or that animated movie

[north bronze]

oh? i tried to post the Tumblr post that claims canon information? but it "contains content blocked by this server". odd. i will screencap it:

i really like how "the devs" mention "Golden Valley". it makes me think that the Valley & (what is now) the Wasteland were all one big connected City leading up to the Royal Library (vault) & Holy Mountain (eden)

*"the Golden Valley of Triumph", snazzy

[blissful palm]

Gw and valley aren't too far so probablya
Sorry, typo

[north bronze]

they're only separated by a small hole in the clouds, and the structures in the wasteland are VERY similar to the architecture in Valley - the thing that makes them stand out is the colour filter. i seen this when OOBing once between the Valley exit and Wasteland Entrance, might get pictures later

[blissful palm]

Yeah perhaps before the storm there was a road inbetween, now covered by clouds

[grizzled vector]

There also seem to be actual ruins between them. Like, the area between the Valley Temple and Wasteland "lobby" has some buildings sticking out of the clouds. Doubt they were built just to stick out like that. There was probably more down there, now "underwater"

[north bronze]

these are the structures i was referring to; you can OOB around here, and view these structures with the Valley's sunset filter (you can also see Valley buildings a little further away, while still inside the Wasteland's Green Filter area) - and they are identical (almost)

i'd be convinced if they were infact 2 parts of one bigger city. the Wasteland being the poverty/military lowlands in the middle of the Valley's prosperity & Eden's royalty

[blissful palm]

Gw seems like an industrial/military zone with the giant broken crystal maker and all the similar factory looking things offshore. There's no housing to be seen

[north bronze]

i'm just going by what we see in the trailers; back when civilization was apparent, we can see "Dusk Ember"/the heroine wander through what looks to me like "GW - Battlefield", and it looks like some kind of tent-based market (we also see Dusk Ember in the trailer sleeping under a tent)

[blissful palm]

Dang I should rewatch the trailer

[north bronze]

RIP low quality

oh hey cool a non-seasonal guide wearing the Season of Abyss ultimate cape! they must have bought the Season Pass.

[trail raft]

Helloo idk if this might sound dumb but i was wondering why skykids wear masks?? Even spirits

[blissful palm]

We don't know, likely cultural

Some are worn for some purpose. Like gw soldier masks and diamond shaped worker masks of the forest. Rebreather mask of the abyss. Some are for show like performance season masks. Belonging season masks appear to be everday wear

[north bronze]

it hasn't been established why we, Elders & Ancestors wear masks. my personal opinion/"theory" is that it's just a part of our/their customs. like undies, or pants, or wearing a shirt

(my messages...they aren't sending?)

[slim mango]

Is that okay if we share screenshot of gallery sky?

There's something wrong at hidden forest exhibition

[north bronze]

-it hasn't been established to my immediate knowledge

[north bronze]

if it isn't related to lore, i'd urge you to share it with another channel, like #seasons-events-chat, or #questions-and-help, or #live-feedback etc

[slim mango]

Okkk 👍

[cobalt palm]

Just catching up with the keynote speech, and seems the character seen on most of the trailers so far (short haired) is called the "Dawn Ember"
And the longer haired, more recently revealed character, who looks a lot like the Hopeful Steward is called the "Dusk Ember"

[grizzled vector]

Or at least that's how Jenova referred to them in the context of them being the Two Embers. It's still kinda unclear whether those are their names (or whether anyone in Sky really has names as we understand them)

[brave patio]

Since (I believe) they said there would be two seasons based on the two embers, perhaps one will be focused on Dawn ember, and the other dusk? I assume the names refer to the metaphorical “dawn” and “dusk” of the sky kingdom (the times they would have been kids in)

[cobalt palm]

Yeah, with no dialogue in the two embers, it's likely that's just an "internal" name

Dusk is also the internal name the developers use for golden wasteland, so it's likely to be there possibly

[grizzled vector]

I am curious who the Guides for those will be, considering it has been stated there isn't much left of the Ruler/Resh/Dawn Ember and Hopeful Steward was already the Guide for the Season of Revival

[north bronze]

Dawn & Dusk refers to where they were "born", as well as "when" it is in the story, since Dusk's story will be taking place by the time the king/Dawn is in his "dusk" years, and i'm more than certain i heard during the keynote "the dawn and dusk sides of the kingdom"

[grizzled vector]

Though considering Hopeful Steward is "named," well, Hopeful Steward rather than Revival Guide, and the fact they're planning to add "Relationships 2.0" with spirits, it's possible Stewie could be the guide for those seasons as well

[north bronze]

perhaps they might even go the same route with their "experimental seasonal entities" (shattering memories, revival mannequins, nesting displays)

a completely unorthodox but interesting "guide" would be the memory lanterns we see in the vault. it could act as a storyteller of sorts, since those are the kingdom's equivalent to books

[grizzled vector]

Right, or add some "Memory of a mural of a memory" entity like they did with 9CD

A manatee spirit could work as a guide for the Dusk Ember's season

[north bronze]

oh Dusk is definitely going to have some manatee-themed cosmetics and likely a plushie, for sure (and probably a little butterfly hair accessory to resemble the butterfly carving in the trailers)

[grizzled vector]

And a krill spirit for the Dawn Ember

[north bronze]

and Dawn, i think, will have a "face accessory" (necklace) ressembling his darkstone pendant we see in the trailers, potentially a cape too

[spiral vault]

They tried to stop it, but failed

[grizzled vector]

In all seriousness though, I expect Stewie will most likely be the guide for those seasons as well. No idea how the season tree would look like, but they did mention that even for the friendship emotes they're planning to rework the trees because e.g. it doesn't make sense for the Duet Bow to be gated behind so many other friendship levels. So it's quite likely they might add multiple trees, or have the tree have wider branches etc

[spiral vault]

Well, it's not known how the ancestor spirits were... created, although there is a quote that says they were "born from starlight"

[north bronze]

potentiall a mask, too

[spiral vault]

I do hope whatever new two embers related season comes, they don't throw it in the collab room, that's really my only wish

[grizzled vector]

The spirits were presumably created when the Ancestors died. The Ancestors themselves though, yes, that part is less clear. Considering how the overall ecosystem revolves around returning to The Light and then back, it's possible that kids falling out of the sky really was the norm.

[north bronze]

although it is concept, i choose to believe that we were all part of the bird of light & were therefore created from the light/"fell from the stars"

[north bronze]

might i ask why you're opposed to it being in the collab room? to me, it just means more to explore (and history to uncover) without any time constraints

[grizzled vector]

By the way, speaking of the lore, one of the things I remember being mentioned in one of the presentations was that some of the earliest concepts they had was the overall ecosystem/lifecycle to resemble the water cycle. I.e. individual souls being like raindrops, dropping down to earth, spending some time there, then eventually getting "purified" by a storm

I don't have screenshots, sadly, but I'll try to take some next week after the presentations are available again. But basically that seems to be one of the origins of the concept of the "megabird"

[north bronze]

i also saw in a livestream interview a short while ago (i think it was Season of Sanctuary), that some of the devs were confirming that creatures of light actually begin their life cycle by emerging from the water (i'm not sure if they meant some, or all life)

[grizzled vector]

I saw a mention of that in this channel but also someone said it was supposedly refuted/retconned later. But it would make sense.

[north bronze]

if ecosystems can be formed in jars with such minimal ingredients IRL, i don't see why all life in Sky has to come directly from the stars, to be fair

/contraticting what i said about "choosing to believe"

[grizzled vector]

As far as I can tell they didn't really build the world based on what would make sense from worldbuilding standpoint. They were trying to capture feelings, evoke emotions, etc. The original concept revolved around making a game "about clouds" because it evoked a certain feeling they wanted the players to experience. But they realized that "clouds" were a bit too abstract as an actual setting so they made islands in the sky. Then they thought "what if we add people who play some part in the "soul water cycle" and played around with how that could look like. Then they thought about cycles or civilization and how that could layer with the cycle of day and the cycle of life and arrived at something that kinda sorta started to feel presentable

[north bronze]

yeah, they have had 12 years in the making to establish lore, which they have been trying to do, but there still aren't enough concrete confirmations for 12 years of worldbuilding

don't get me wrong, i understand lore is a big challenge. but supposedly they began development in 2012? and had established a base template for lore by the time Light Awaits began?

[grizzled vector]

As I've been known to mention before, I think they primarily wanted to craft an experience that evokes emotions, and they arguably did succeed at that. I don't think they really meant to create a Silmarillion style Story of How The World Came To Be

[north bronze]

well of course not, but as time went on, and given the nature of MMO RPGs, they knew they had to get worldbuilding as well. and as i've mentioned, they had 12 years to build this world. that's quite a long time

[grizzled vector]

I think they "began development in 2012" in a sense that the very earliest prototyping/thoughts about something-that-would-later-become-Sky date back to 2012. I don't think they were literally crafting lore full time since 2012

[north bronze]

when i say began development, that is what i mean - not crafting lore

[north bronze]

let's say 10 years, i think light awaits released in 2014? or was it 2016? so they've had 8-10 years to flesh out their world and lore

[grizzled vector]

Also I'm pretty sure the main focus with Sky (and even Journey) was player-to-player connection, not necessarily getting players to experience The Lore of the world itself

[north bronze]

well of course but that doesn't negate the need for storytelling in your world, nor does it negate the player/consumers need to understand what happened in the world they are experiencing

half the fun of playing with other people is learning the story together and figuring things out together, at least in my opinion - any game, not just sky

[grizzled vector]

In my experience, given the nature of MMOs, few people truly care about lore even if it's there. Most people just collect gear and cosmetics. Some will play for the story and care about the lore but for most it's more of an excuse/context/flavor for what's happening rather than the primary motivation for playing

[north bronze]

i mean, what good is a world based on experiencing it with other people, if there's no substance to experience?