lore-discussion-spoilers

[spring python]

There is a huge anatomical difference between the whales and the king krill/leviathan, though. I don’t think they’re the same

[random token]

That'd be same with the krill and manta like creature though, yet we still theorize. Maybe the corruption changes their forms, which I like to go with

[spring python]

There is actually a huge anatomical difference between the leviathan and krills, though I do believe they’re all corrupted creatures, I also don’t think the “king krill” is a krill at all

[keen shore]

Yeah, the limbo scene is a lot more emotional with the context I theorized. A skykid gaining back not only all the memories they gave away to save others but also a full knowledge of their past and how they got there… man

[random token]

you said that in the first bit btw but I mentioned something that explains their difference ;w;.

[sterile orchid]

the corruption could have changed it, but i don't think regular krill and the whales have enough similarities (unless the krill happened to be like the skeletons of the whales?? )

[half shadow]

I think there could be some connection to them yeah, we don’t really know what else reaches the size of the krill. The whales however can be MUCH bigger than we’ve seen any of the krill, and they have very different anatomy. Also with the Abyss monster/leviathan I do think it’s some kind of corrupted creature that MIGHT have at one point been a whale but it seems too drastically warped (maybe because of how many light creatures it’s devoured?) that it’s real hard to tell

[random token]

Oh of course not the regular krill. I'm talking about the BIIIG guy in abyss!

[spring python]

The thing is, I don’t think there’s much that shows the difference between corrupted creatures and regular ones. The only ones we have to compare is crabs, and their uncorrupted form is pretty identical to their corrupted one (here’s a comparison)

[random token]

It could just be my memory messing with me but I think someone official said it was a krill??

And yeah I 100% see your point, but what I assume is how corrupted they are, like a percentage. The more corrupt they become, the more they change.

Sorry if I respond late i gotta do a quiz

I don't got big words in my brain.. is difficult to explain things sometimes

[spring python]

I’m pretty sure the only official name we have for the leviathan is that Tethys called them the “big guy” in a poll

[sterile orchid]

it's actually very interesting to think that krill are the skeletons of something, like the corruption ate away at just about everything on the original creature (but it's also horrifying so i don't think i'm going to make this headcanon)

[random token]

I just assume it's a krill because of the way it looks and the other krills surrounding it. But maybe it's its own thing too, I'm not doubting it for sure

[half shadow]

What was interesting to me about Abyss was how the krill seemed to coexist with the leviathan. In the angler’s memory we see what looks like a juvenile krill swimming in the water and there is one inside of the large tank where the leviathan is originally swimming, plus it seems to call the krill to the area once it’s released

[spring python]

#polls message yeah, it also specifically says “setting them free” which would imply we helped in some way (hence why we can still go down in abyss and see them but they don’t attack)

[random token]

Yea exactly that. I think the miners there contained it

[random token]

They're so obscure on purpose

[spring python]

Corrupted creatures in general are pretty amicable with each other, krills don’t attack crabs on that regard, it’s kinda of a solicitation on how their “prey” is indeed anything with light. The Leviathan having krills following them is really interesting herd behavior though

[sterile orchid]

is there a way to view the cutscene when you go into the abyss for the first time, to "free the big guy"? it's been so long since the season i don't remember what happened (i don't recall any krill in the area, unless you mean the two in the tower just above the hole)

[small perch]

The story of abyss is that the ancestors that were originally there, contained light creatures and absorbed them of their light into the lanterns as a source of energy. Being ripped of their light, the creatures withered away and corrupted into darkness creatures.

[random token]

I should've saved stuff but didn't uhh, like an info card or something say that Krills are after the light because they have none themselves?

[lusty merlin]

Oo it reminds me of remoras with sharks and and whales in a way for a reason, ik they don’t stick but they could have a symbiotic relationship maybe or coexist and stuff

[random token]

And yeah the herding behavior. Like the krills are attracted to it for some reason that we may not know of

[spring python]

I’m not sure, sometimes you can redo spirit quests if you go to the seasonal guide’s tree but i didn’t try it with abyss

[lusty merlin]

Like Leviathan could get bigger prey krills can’t get and krill could clean up leftovers maybe

[random token]

My naive self when first discovering the mantas is that "Oh no! Who could've done this! The sky people mightve helped!"

then I was wrong

[half shadow]

I feel like the leviathan was a result of whatever experimentation was going on in the reef. The murals show what appears to be light creatures being contained and power diamonds being created from the darkstone that was mined. There’s one part of it that iirc looks like a small manta creating one diamond, a bigger manta creating another, and an even bigger manta creating even more. I remember speculating at the time, in many long form rambles that are probably still in this channel if my name gets searched lmao, that the spirits manufacturing the power diamonds experimented with a way to augment a super powerful light creature they could then use to power an absurd amount of diamonds, and that light creature was what the Leviathan used to be. Something thing went wrong - maybe the amount of light energy sort of went all “black hole” and corrupted into the Leviathan, and maybe the huge amount of light creatures we see inside of it are either what were sacrificed to create it or all of the other creatures from the reef that it consumed before being contained.

[random token]

I love your explanations. Easy for me to understand. I want to post essays here but I don't think I'm comfortable enough

Could you imagine how terrifying it was when the experiment "went wrong?"

[half shadow]

thanks! it’s the magical power called “hyperfixation makes me impervious to embarrassment over how much i type about this video game”

granted i remember typing a lot less coherent things about that theory during abyss LOL

[random token]

Ejejfhjf my brain just goes "You have good theory go ramble"

But my hands go "no"

[spring python]

I personally have a different idea on what happened in the abyss facility though. I think that they built that facility in a place where the Leviathan and krills were actually naturally from. The “abyss” itself doesn’t seem to be a corrupted place, it just seems like the bottom of the ocean: a place devoid of light.
What I believe happened was that the place was the first draft of Forest Temple’s refinery: a place where they’d take the light fish from the sea and turn them into darkstone. However, notice that the facility was built near the sea, where creatures like uncorrupted krills would naturally inhabit below. What I think happened was that they discarded the remnants of darkstone in the sea, which caused the creatures to go into a corrupted state and attack the facility, which was a place brimming with light. And what caused it to flood might have been the animals breaking the glass and letting the water in

The Forest’s refinery would only come to be as a result of this first one’s failure

[lusty merlin]

Oooh yeah like runoff and waste polluting the water

[small perch]

This makes me think of the leviathan being full of all those smaller light creatures. They desire so badly the life they used to have to consume those who have it, and still, they’ll never be the same again 😔

[random token]

It's unfortunate for them. It's a fate caused by the sky people. It's not the creatures fault

[half shadow]

This is also a really cool idea!!! I think that the literal abyss, a place that light can’t reach, being somewhere that dark creatures can come from is SUPER cool

[spring python]

That’s actually my theory on dark creatures origins! I believe that creatures that hail from caverns and the bottom of the sea are naturally dark creatures, cause they come from somewhere without light

[lusty merlin]

Ya I can also see it, like the deeper the ocean goes the more surreal the creatures become so I can definitely see it, maybe the runoff from darkstone production made them corrupted in a way that forced them out of their home

[spring python]

I also personally believe they have a different life cycle than light creatures. Light creature return to the light, to Orbit, and continue their cycle from thereon out, but dark creatures hail from the earth, and that’s where their cycle continues (hence why crabs come from the ground, and return to the ground once stuff like shard cleaning is done, same with krills, coming from the water when we first see them)

[random token]

Oh that one's good

[sterile orchid]

Mantas are light creatures, yet they're seen in the air, underwater, and heading to the light in orbit, which is a little weird

[half shadow]

my theory largely comes from me taking most of the murals as literal and also the fact that i love me the trope of “uh oh our scientific hubris created a BIG MONSTER OOPS”

[random token]

I think it was confirmed they are corrupted but I enjoy seeing HCs.

I'll be back I gotta afk for quizz

[half shadow]

I think the mantas can exist in water and air, they’re kind of like seabirds

[shrewd zenith]

I think its interesting that Treassure reef has similar pillars for carts that really remind me of the cart system in Valley

[spring python]

Corrupted isn’t equivalent to “previously light creature” tho

[half shadow]

They were both likely places for power diamonds/darkstone to be moved around!

[lusty merlin]

Oo true! I Can see dark biology having a some light while light creatures have some darkness in them to keep eachother grounded, so it’s not pure light and darkness. (Like our skykids turn grey and grow crystals when there’s no light, only exception that we seem to turn to pure light is when we ascend) Maybe when that’s unbalanced for dark creatures (more darkness than light) krill for example could seek light out to attempt and return that balance

[spring python]

Yeah, the idea of all coexisting in all creatures is also very cool! I also have been thinking if creature like crabs do indeed have light within, but a harder and more solid shell to protect themselves since they live in colder and darker areas, hence why crabs have shiny eyes

[lusty merlin]

Oo yaya i can see that! Maybe their shells can also represent climate, crabs in sanctuary are white while ones in forest and wasteland are grey, maybe it could represent how much natural light they have in said realm?

[shrewd zenith]

Oh no I think the ones in Valley were for people-transportation as they take you to the stadium and up the course

[sterile orchid]

it would make sense if the darkness is what gives each creature form, and the light functions somewhat like blood or water does for creatures in the real world, holding all of that together and moving properly (light creatures just have SIGNIFICANTLY more light than dark creatures, but dark creatures weren't always solid black and all crystalized because they still had some amount of light)

[lusty merlin]

Ohh also the fact there’s friendly crabs without darkness particles! Like pleading parents crabs being friendly and having no dark particles, and there’s crabs on one of the far santuary islands that are also friendly!

Maybe if there’s enough natural light or fire light you can actually burn the darkness away similar to plants!

[lusty merlin]

Yaya i agree! I see skykids bring that too, base made of some darkness but ultimate made of light to form until eden when we ascend and break from the statue state

[spring python]

This would also solidify the ideas of “balance between dark and light”, cause I always wondered why the game creation board presented the game as something against that dichotomy, but then dark creatures seemed to solidify it instead

[lusty merlin]

Yeah! Same for our world the ecosystem has a balance to make a healthy one, there’s food for prey and thus that’s food is for ones seeking prey but their presence also helps smaller animals and so on and so fourth

[random token]

Not saying it is but what we've been given so far I think it's a fair assumption that they once were!

[sterile orchid]

if you knock down the bowl with the 3 crabs at the campfire in wasteland, they display a lot of little heart icons, and those are friendly as well, so i think their aggression and corruption has something to do with the crabs in most places being in polluted water, and they're inherently very peaceful creatures that would make good pets

[lusty merlin]

Yes! I’m also thinking of the sky shop crab too, I can definitely see them being nice pets when uncurroupted

[random token]

I also think they have a sense of gratefulness

[spring python]

I have a whole theory on what causes crabs and krills to be corrupted and why it’s related to darkstone if ya wanna read

[random token]

In a way I hope we get to bond with krill somehow, like freeing the crabs

[lusty merlin]

I feel like krills would be similar, and would only hunt when necessary and not attack everything they see. Maybe they can even be somewhat friendly, while not tamed though, still a wild animal but maybe their natural form can tolerate others compared to their curroupted form

[spring python]

Considering they’d live in dark waters, they would probably survive on sporadically hunting

[random token]

Made me think of SU because the gems' bodies are just made out of light/illusion. Maybe connects in a way with the light creatures form

Wrong reply but it was the other thing you said

[sterile orchid]

i didn't even notice which message you replied to

i get what you're talking about

[random token]

Yeah sorry it was the one where you said "if the darkness is what gives each creature form."

[sterile orchid]

i found a video of this after checking the questline memories to no avail, but i don't know if i can send it since it's not mine

[indigo tulip]

where does this fit in the lore..?

post to see for yourself--> https://www.facebook.com/thatskygame/posts/new-feature-weve-introduced-an-aviary-questmaster-for-our-players-to-learn-about/190069365002051/

[empty drift]

That is from 2018 my dude.

[untold notch]

I'm not sure it does fit into the lore considering how not part of the game aviary is

[sterile orchid]

that was beta game content, and does not count as any bit official

i don't remember what the aviary area became in live release

[uncut pond]

It arguably inspired the Wind Paths years later

Although technically Home replaced its function as "place that connects all main areas"

[random token]

Wish he was here

[random token]

I agree

[jovial roost]

(original video: https://youtu.be/ZXhKP3-Pfq4)

[random token]

Sky cotl is very easy to understand though and I like it

[austere bridge]

yeah! most of the lore is up to interpretation, and I really like that.

[winter shale]

I wish they had kept this style of detail tbh, but I understand how hard it is :,,))

[eternal totem]

That's the old beta questgiver before the 2019 global questgiver

[broken pendant]

guys why do the aurora spirits have such yee yee haircuts

[compact shale]

Aurora taught them how to use scissors

[broken pendant]

Aurora watching the Warrior of Love cut 4 inches off their sidebangs, tie golden rings at the ends, then proceed to tie the severed hair back onto the rings

[half shadow]

it’s camp

[spring python]

Valley fashion week must go crazy

[half shadow]

you’re so right

[rigid mural]

I have a feeling Valley must have had the most eccentric fashion

[tepid veldt]

they have pageants every tuesday

[lusty merlin]

I Can imagine hunger games type of winter fashion for upper class folks

[compact shale]

Canada has a contest where people freeze their hair while bathing in hot springs in the dead of Winter. I bet Dreams Village has some of that.

[half shadow]

oh you KNOW they were so boujee up there

[austere bridge]

sunset about to walk down the runway(completely seriously) in the most goofy outfit you've ever seen

[tepid veldt]

no shame

[austere bridge]

yeahhhhhhh

[tepid veldt]

never have any shame always be unapologetically you

[austere bridge]

iydll spittin facts today

[rigid mural]

I like to think they made the best ski gear tho

[tepid veldt]

this is the only time youll ever see me do that because i only speak in random nonsense

[compact shale]

Moth: Seed of Hope... how'd you get that hairstyle?
Seed of Hope: Funny story, actually. We were all chilling in the hot springs, and then my hair froze weird. All of a sudden, a voice from above told me to keep the hairstyle forever. You can probably guess what happened next.

[austere bridge]

too much swag from the double mohawk to not keep it

[rigid mural]

you guys are just jealous you will never be them /j

[lusty merlin]

I’m devastated I’ll never be them /j

[lucid bridge]

So, during the civil war, do you think the Kingdom (diamond insignia), in addition to drafting soldiers (it looks like the bereft veteran’s son was drafted, or maybe he just joined willingly) the guards also kidnapped dissidents? Because it looks like the Pleading Child’s mother was take away for rebellion, and the Tea Maker had to sneak around areas.

[rigid mural]

There's some war tactics that involve locking down villages on ennemy territory as well as impose an embargo to weaken oppossed forces; it's warfare that's as physical (no more folks from this village can be recruited to replenish ranks, crops not tended to will not yield food for rations) as it is psychological (it's obviously a huge weight on morale).

Perhaps it's the case of all the spirits from the season of Remembrance, it would fit with the memories...

[lucid bridge]

That’s a good point! I did not know that about war tactics.

[rigid mural]

A blockade differs from an embargo or sanction, which are legal barriers to trade rather than physical barriers. It is also distinct from a siege in that a blockade is usually directed at an entire country or region, rather than a fortress or city and the objective may not always be to conquer the area. Oh, it seems that embargo is the wrong term, a better word would be "blockade" or "siege".

[half shadow]

I’m a little sad that it doesn’t seem like we’ll get any more cutscenes regarding the spirit’s pasts, I really wanna see more wartime stuff

[cold sparrow]

they might do that in a future season

this season focused on the effects it had on innocent bystanders

[keen shore]

With teabrewer’s memory especially, this makes a lot of sense… the conditions and lack of resources would go a fair way to explaining why most remembrance cosmetics look so tattered and threadbare, as well. Like pleading child’s pants are visibly several size too small for them but they don’t really have another option

This season implies a lot of things about the war that made me think a lot. It’s at the very least heavily implied that all the spirits are from Wasteland, which makes me wonder… was the war basically Wasteland getting invaded (presumably by Valley?) was it the main and only battlefield, hence why it’s so damaged in comparison to Valley

[timber crown]

What I'm understanding is there was a war and this war made the darkness appear and brought ruin to the kingdom. Is that right.

[cold sparrow]

the timeline isn't totally clear
this might be the case
it might also be that the exploitation of darkstone made the darkness appear and the misery lead to a war

[rose wigeon]

made my own eden lore based on true events

please tell me if this is not allowed here and il will delete it

[half shadow]

this is awesome! I like the art a lot

you should post it in the fanart channel as well if you haven’t already!

[half shadow]

I think about wasteland’s origin a ton. I think the fact that “golden” still remains in the name implies that it used to be super opulent. There’s ruins of what appear to be temples all over the place. Most of the other areas that are super damaged looking seem like way more natural degradation than anything in the wasteland. I think it was definitely one of, if not THE prime battlefield.

[keen shore]

I don’t know if I agree with wasteland being opulent at one point; Valley seems implied to have always been the richer of the two. The war just made that a lot worse. I agree with everything else though. Wasteland should be in a similar state of decay to Valley or Vault, even, but it’s just completely desolate and destroyed

[earnest briar]

hello Catlem I would just like to say that I enjoy your biblically accurate bird-cat-angel

[keen shore]

THANK YOU THEYRE MY FURSONA THEIR NAME IS ARSON

[rose wigeon]

THAnkyou!!!!!

[untold notch]

salem I can't tell if that's true or not

[keen shore]

It is 100% true, Bird helped me name them

[earnest briar]

Arson is a great name, may I suggest a friend for them named Cremation

[untold notch]

this is wonderful news I should make them a friend called Larceny

[half shadow]

Yeah, my take is more based on how close it is to the other locations that are the most no visually/technologically impressive. It was probably a major location when making the pilgrimage to Eden. I wonder if it was like where a majority of people who weren’t super high up in society lived

[rose wigeon]

Ooo maybe

[random token]

GW def used to look pretty and probably had a few residents, but turned into rubble or sand

[keen shore]

I’m thinking so too. Like Valley was the rich city, it had enough wealth to show off in essentially every aspect. Wasteland was the sprawl beneath it.. maybe areas closer to the mountains’ base (like under the clouds we fly over between the two realms) were suburbs or even a poorer section of the city and the Wasteland we travel through is the rural outskirts, with lots of refineries and farms, whose job it was to support the city instead

[random token]

I’m hearing the suburbs and poor section theory a lot. Makes me wonder what the dreams area fell in? Maybe suburbs.

[tepid veldt]

arson W

[half shadow]

I doubt that wasteland was like super poor or anything, it was just probably the largest urban settlement. I’m imagining a lot of interconnected villages for the most part.

[rigid mural]

wooly manta helping with panic attacks

[half shadow]

[untold notch]

many thoughts heart full also is that cnaldmekaer

[keen shore]

Dreams seems roughly halfway up the mountain, maybe a little less? So probably suburbs yeah

[brisk python]

I WANT 200

[half shadow]

I’ve been gone so long that I forgot about the wooly mantas oh my goodness

[flint bolt]

when the uh

uh

hugy

[compact shale]

I made a quick edit jsjdhshdhsbwb

[slate saffron]

I need to know

[compact shale]

Know what

[half shadow]

me about sky lore

[slate saffron]

I need

I need to know

[rigid mural]

all i'm saying is that the ancestors would have still been alive if they put this on the eden diamond

[violet sundial]

Bringing this back along with me giggles

[lusty merlin]

GELP

[violet sundial]

Amazing, immortality unlocked

[rigid mural]

respecting hazard symbols saves lives

[violet sundial]

I’m gonna dip again until i finish some lore stuff i can post 💔 actually wait

Okok so like. Anyone else get why like. What in the fresh hell prompted pleading child’s parent(?) getting arrested

[violet sundial]

AJJSKSJKSK

[untold notch]

Crab Whisperer always comes back. /ref

[rigid mural]

If we're right on the theory that there was a siege or something like it, maybe they were arrested for going out past curfew or outside boundaries ? Or maybe they were suspected of pactising with the opponents of the ones in control...

[keen shore]

Scientists reconstruct the last image Queen Elizabeth saw before her death

[native shoal]

Did the season start already or something? I thought that was on the 20th?

[violet sundial]

HELLLPPP

[violet sundial]

Oh man

[untold notch]

didnt it start like . yesterday or two days ago

[violet sundial]

Oh also kinda random but what if like. Light creature scales? I think itd be cool to see clothing n stuff with it

[rigid mural]

skykid cape scales

[untold notch]

thinks about. cannoneer

[violet sundial]

Good point actually. Does this mean skykids are all literal moths

[violet sundial]

Also that reminded me i still need to do my dailies thank you. I will be back like. Tomorrow. Or. Whenever i get redesigning my ocs done

Goobye

[untold notch]

ha vefun

[flint bolt]

are the elders smart?

genuine question, because every action I've ever seen or heard about is just down right stupid

[lusty merlin]

Would you trust somebody who’s not smart to run your country for example?

Like of corse they’re smart in their own ways, is the elder of the vault of knowlage, and even then each of the elders must have the comment sense and responsibility to judge what’s best for their realm

[slate saffron]

Aristocracy doesn't have to be smart to rule

[lusty merlin]

Would all of them be out of this world genius’ who can solve the most complex equations? No, but that doesn’t mean they’re not smart, being a leader is not an easy job, and have they made mistakes, sure, but there’s no way they’re not smart.

Like

Blacksmithing for takes insane skill to protect, and possibly being the one to engineer darkstone that in turn would change sky society forever is huge

Building a prosperous and massive city in a MOUNTAIN is an insane feat

Being involved in a war and possibly being a leading person on on of the sides takes extreme problem solving to decide what your next move can make

My god there’s so much I can go on but I’ll say this, the elders are in no way not smart, they’re incredibly skilled in their own ways

I will die on this hill

[slate saffron]

Do we have any confirmation on how involved the elders were in their realms' creation?

Like, for example, did the Valley elders help build their cities and whatnot or did it grow naturally & they were just appointed to run it?

[lusty merlin]

I’d say it does, where there’s aristocracy there’s inner workings, they don’t appear out of nowhere. Hell aristocratic’s history have their own land, their own responsibilities, their own thing a to uphold.

Who to negotiate with, who to befriend, who to don’t, how to approach a situation ect

[lusty merlin]

I’d say the twins had a huge role based of the prophecy mural when they revive the air light, you can see the arches and buildings from the flying race in there. Maybe valley could’ve been small before but I whole heartly believe the twins made valley shine so much brighter than it already was

Not only that but the coliseum being part of the temple itself, so to me I’d say it was new, and was possibly built along with the races to being the city togeather

It doesn’t make any sense to me if the elders aren’t involved with their realms, cuz why would they be there?

[raw crypt]

I think because we see the kingdom in ruins it might be easy to assume they weren’t the best or smartest, but i feel that dumbs down the problems skys storytelling tries to tackle, i think the downfall has a a lot of factors coming into play and summing it up as they’re not smart would sorta negate that, hope i make sense JDHDNDBD ^^;

[slate saffron]

Maybe aristocracy is a bit too big of a word to describe what I ment, sorry what I was trying to say was that the elders might have been more akin to really big and lazy landlords, ruling over the land either by inherentance or appointment but not necessarily managing it.

[lusty merlin]

Hard agree to disagree on that sorry. From the rememebrance mural to the cutscene in vault and prophecy murals I see them being VERY involved in their realms

Also windpaths

Like the wind-paths posts around the realms have the same markings that temple does, so it wasn’t just flight guides idea to me I feel like that implies they collaborated

[slate saffron]

Why windpaths 👀

[lusty merlin]

Like LOOK

They didn’t have to add the marking but they DID

And wind paths connects the realms, a transportation system through all of them, and I say that’s a very involved thing to do with the realms

Also like every mural in the vault cutscene has ancestors alongside the elders, each showing them helping the ancestors one way and another

That or entertaining them like with the twins here for example

Also this thing I rambled about awhile about cuz I was thinking why we have (elder birds, king jelly, whales, giant mantas ect and so few of them if at all)

[slate saffron]

Yeah, but shared design doesn't necessarily imply a collaboration between Prairie's elder & the builders of the windpaths, it could also imply that the original builders of the windpaths originated in Prarie & they used designs they were familiar with when decorating their work.

Also it's kinda hard for me to imagine the windpaths being the work of any particular elder given how it weaves throughout the realms, I can only really see it either being a project done independently (with the elders' blessing) or by the will of the king/some central authority

IM TYPING SO SLOW IT HURTS AAA

[lusty merlin]

Flight guide is’s apprentice though, I don’t think they would’ve gotten the okay to build them of didn’t approve (would they have built the paths themselves maybe not but I can see them playing a role)

[rigid mural]

Maybe not directly the elder, but the guide is canonically their apprentice !
ACK TOO SLOW

[slate saffron]

[rigid mural]

Well if I may add, the structure of the islands there are pretty reminescent of the Bird Nest area, with the holes in them !

[lusty merlin]

Oh ya now that I think about it your right!

[rigid mural]

The Sanctuary islands too

[lusty merlin]

Also a area of that scale needs some sort of overseeing that’s not something you can sneakily do without getting noticed, and again the flight posts pointing to each tunnel, so it was a massive project to me

[rigid mural]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[lusty merlin]

SAME BRAIN

[rigid mural]

I don't think they'd be one of a kind tho, if that were the case, why would an elder bird be the mount of a random boy band ?

[lusty merlin]

Yeah absolutely, did they make mistakes? Of corse they did they aren’t perfect

[lusty merlin]

True true, along for the ride maybe, could be more elder birds/light creatures than ancestor elders but I guess it comes down to preference

[rigid mural]

wait but elders aren't really one of a kind either, there's 6-7 of them depending on your theories

[lusty merlin]

Guess the twins are one of a kind then /j (or two however you see them)

[rigid mural]

they're the specialest

[slate saffron]

HEY Just to clarify: I'm trying to say that don't think the elders directly worked in the creation of their realms (like as in building buildings & whatnot) beyond doing their assigned tasks & giving consent to certain projects, something which wouldn't necessarily imply being smart, not that they didn't do anything

also IM GIVING UP. MY PHONE'S KEYBOARD IS WACK I HATE THIS AND EVERYTHING. GOODNIGHT

[lusty merlin]

Ahh okay I misunderstood my bad

I just think they’re way more involved than ig how you would see them being personally

[rigid mural]

But yeah, I think there could be, maybe, 6 elder creatures for each specie in existence; maybe that one elder bird just really enjoys the company of the Rhythm band
I like to think there's 6 elders because you can assign them 4 hours each in a 24 hour day, so that number can be found in any elder creature too

[lusty merlin]

Ooo Yayya

We get a krill rollercoaster but not an elder bird ride💔💔💔

[rigid mural]

4am-8am: dawn
8am-noon: day
noon-4pm: rain (afternoon)
4pm-8pm: sunset
8pm-midnight: dusk
midnight-4am: night

like, you even find the repetition of 4 and 8 if you cut it that way, which are also both important numbers (4 trials, 4 elemental lights, 4 players to open some doors, 4 diamonds to make a bigger one, and 8 players for servers, 8 players for the puzzle...)

[lusty merlin]

OOUGh

This reminded me but isn’t the rope leading to the leviathan from cannoneers boat follow a similar four pattern based off the lil (flags)? I could be wrong about this though

[rigid mural]

isnt there an idiom like "it's always darkest before dawn" cos you could have ancestors consider the first sunlight of dawn the herald of the new day, instead of doing it like us where it's in the middle of the night.
And Eden could be the "death" of the old day to welcome the new, not hours in the day but still a shift in time

[rigid mural]

not sure, didnt pay attention but could check a playthrough on youtube

[lusty merlin]

OUGH wait it’s 7 instead of 8 here

[lusty merlin]

OUGH YAYAYA

Wait let me double check something cuz it’s six in another part

It like switches from 6 to 7 flags (idk if the lifeline is still there sadly so I don’t think I can check :(

God ik there was a convo about this when the quest first came out b it I can’t remember the person that noticed it

[lusty merlin]

I was rereading this and ig I missed this but the elders are not lazy I completely disagree. I’m sorry if this comes off as rude I cannot fathom them showing their constellation murals where their legit collaborating with ancestors in every one of these scenes here way or another

[brisk python]

valley elders playing croquet w/ the ancestors

[lusty merlin]

If they where lazy they wouldn’t show this cutscene they way they did in the first place

Daleth is guiding birds ancestors by boat

Ancestors are giving Ayin pots full of light/butterflies because they know Ayin Can do somthing important with them (they wouldn’t even bother bringing it to them if they couldn’t)

Ancestors are GIVING Teth materials to blacksmith, this also ties of what I mentioned about the ancestors with Ayin

Twins are hosting a possible sporting event and keeping the ancestors entertained

Tsadi is LEADING a charge with their ancestors right being them

And Lamed is helping the scholar’s with the memory capsules which them dead centre in the middle

They are absolutely NOT lazy

[cedar sun]

If you know you know

Imma be fr right now tho, manta in sky lore has got it hard ngl

[lusty merlin]

They do

And tbh since stuff like that still happens irl too in a way also hurts

[brisk python]

my poor manta babies dont deserve this

[crystal scroll]

It does, I had no clue why the manta where stuck in cages in abyss haha I though it was research or they where happy there or smth

They are only semi aquatic right? Because I’m the cells they had an oxygen source

[rigid mural]

There's tiny mushrooms the ancestors could eat
Makes me wonder about all the lost flora we might not see...

Also my game isn't in english so maybe it's different, but interesting how these are referred to as "comfort memory lanterns"...

[lusty merlin]

OUGH i think mine just said memory lanterns

[lean kayak]

Yeah it said memory lanterns

[cold sparrow]

I mean, it's kind of implying that these memory lanterns would be comforting to the spirits, right?
The actual name 'lanternes de souvenirs' is bolded, while réconfortantes is not, so thatÄs just a description, not part of the name.

The english version: "that would bring them peace"

[random token]

I think definitely it's for looking back on good memories that would comfort them

I can't think of anything else that is implied. I thought they were light extractions at first but they're memories

Someone else did mention that they mightve flocked to store their memories because of the war

[halcyon hull]

reminds me of the tooth fairy from "Guardians" by DreamWorks

[rigid mural]

Aye fair, I lose stuff in translations.

[lost wing]

What are the statues in Eden?

[round parrot]

kids

[cold sparrow]

skykids who lost their light and got trapped in darkness

[lost wing]

if we see the pleading child as a spirit, does that mean they died? 😨

[round parrot]

Coping Headcanon:
The spirit manta () found in the Refuge is the manta that Pleading Child wanted to ride (now as a spirit)
I want to see this happen so badly

[cold sparrow]

omg

[round parrot]

Passed away probably /hunch

[random token]

I hope it's for a quest later on

[cold sparrow]

it might be! i know it can bring you to a spot at the edge of the area where you can fly up and rest on a pillar of light sparkles

[round parrot]

I checked at the refuge and rode the spirit manta
It appeared to be that they sort of went faster when I got on it and threw me off
Now I have a headcanon that Pleading Child DID ride this spirit manta at one point and made it their friend (the spirit manta doesn't see a Skykid as their friend aka the Pleading Child thus yeeting the skykid in question off)

[random token]

That kid had dreams that were shattered

[round parrot]

quite literally
it has been suggested that the apocalypse was a result to the Eden diamond exploding or "shattering"
that is if pleading child died to that in that circumstance

[cold sparrow]

lets go beat up the edem diamond for ruining this kid's dreams

[sterile orchid]

i was riding the manta for a WHILE in the refuge, but as a character of mine that really likes mantas, so i also accept this headcanon and want to add on that anyone who has the same energy as the pleading child is ALSO accepted as a friend

[young ledge]

do you think this season takes place like right before the diamond shattering? ahh i just find it interesting* that there is guards in the spirit memories,, like considering these spirits seem to be living in secret etcetc

[round parrot]

got plans? we are gonna be beating up a literal rhombus

[round parrot]

Honestly I doubt
In fact I think it was during the war

[cold sparrow]

the memories we see seem to have played out a while before they reached the vault
whether the shattering happened before then or after is unclear tho

[young ledge]

ahhh that makes some more sense!! spirit memories get a little hard for me to follow sometimes

[cold sparrow]

especially the veteran's memories play out over a long timespan, from their child's childhood to adolescence, and seem to be set in some sort of private home

[sterile orchid]

the memories are from shortly before the war (start of Veteran's memory) to somewhere during it (all of the rest)

[young ledge]

i am not a huge fan of the theory there was a war (at least between the realms*), but this season is converting me slowly (sorry keep hitting enter on accident and sending msgs early)

[cold sparrow]

Aurora's concert and the memory of the Seed of Hope very clearly show that there was a violent conflict between Ancestors
and the news for this season explicitly mentions a war iirc

[sterile orchid]

it's not really a theory that there was a war, what other explanation would there be for the golden wasteland? especially the battlefield area

[cold sparrow]

Signs of the kingdom’s upheaval echo in the ruins you’ve seen while venturing through Sky. With Remembrance, we wanted to link these signs scattered throughout Golden Wasteland and prior Seasons to reveal more about a critical era in the kingdom’s history—one that has only been hinted at until now. Season of Remembrance returns to more intimate storytelling within the Vault of Knowledge, where four new Spirits have found shelter from the upheaval disrupting their lives in the kingdom they had known.

Through Seasonal Quests, Spirits share both their own emotional experiences of the turmoil in the kingdom, and memories of the tangible objects that connect them to what they lost.
it's called upheaval in the news
but it's a conflict nonetheless

[young ledge]

i didnt rlly follow aurouras season man, got alot to catch up on

[cold sparrow]

also worth noting that the last area in GW is called the "battlefield"

[round parrot]

Not to mention all the shields and spears laying around (some shields having one of two different symbols)

[young ledge]

in my mind it was a battle between the dark creatures and our ancestors, that the area had been taken over by corrupted creatures

[cold sparrow]

In this memory, we see the Seed of Hope, who seems to act as a sort of war medic, being attacked with a man-made weapon - a spear or arrow

[young ledge]

ahhh this season really is breaking down all of my past theories ):

[cold sparrow]

And in the concert, in the same battlefield, we see ancestors in combat with each other

[round parrot]

Oh and with some mantas (presumably helping one side/ being living shields)

[round parrot]

Oh and btw
About the butterfly
Did you know that the butterfly in the aurora concert is not the same butterfly as we see in the realms?

[pastel brook]

all my krills, greeting me here as a friend I'm home, waiting for time to let go...

[sterile orchid]

what were your past theories?

[young ledge]

oh man that really puts a huge gash in my theory haha

[cold sparrow]

I know war is an awful thing to imagine
but I think both the Season of Aurora and the current one shows how ugly war is
and that there are no winners, only losers
particularly the innocent

[young ledge]

i will attempt to try sum it up lightly!! give me one moment

[round parrot]

Here we go
There is a visible yellow highlight and it's body being mainly white (as we can see with other light creatures)

[cold sparrow]

I think the light creatures in the concert might have a special texture set, since their colors change according to our capes
and also because we see some of them closer, so more detail needed

[sterile orchid]

that seems like it's a different color and pattern, but also every creature in the aurora concert changes hue with the color of your cape, so it's likely just a special thing to signify "this is a skykid in butterfly/manta/jellyfish form"

[round parrot]

idk it feels too much of a coincidence for the concert butterfly when we see that the present-day butterflies are not only pure yellow, they can be made using flame - there would be a difference if these were two different things

[sterile orchid]

that's a white butterfly, so the player controlling it had a white cape, the color is an expected difference

[round parrot]

I didn't wear a white cape when I took those images.

[sterile orchid]

we would have to get direct access to the models without any glow effects in order to tell if that's actually a different butterfly

[round parrot]

It is (concepted) that light creatures can have variations
(doesn't really add to the convo but I just found it interesting)
During the "exhale inhale" section, the bird aurora turns to has the yellow head while birds like the one in the windpaths (specifically the one that follows you) has no yellow head

[sterile orchid]

omg i love the birds with the orange patterns

[novel marten]

I wanna know more about the big bird like creature from the Rhythm season ending animation

[sterile orchid]

there's a bird that follows you in wind paths?

[brisk python]

this is true, can absolutely confirm this

[sterile orchid]

is there a video of it,, i'm avoiding the area as much as possible because of the seasonal candle bug

[round parrot]

Flight Easter Egg by AL
#seasons-events-chat message

[round parrot]

THE BOY

We do know for a fact that it is called an Elder Bird

[sterile orchid]

i do wonder how many of the creatures in this world have similar life cycles and stages, because there are tiny mantas the size of birds, and giant birds the size of some mantas, and i wonder if that big bird is a different species of bird entirely or if the birds we normally see are actually just babies

[novel marten]

I just realized this mask is based off the elder bird

[cold sparrow]

I have never seen this Permanent pets when, TGC

[novel marten]

And this one probably. It’s more pointy like the real bird

[round parrot]

The birb
Taken at 2021

[sterile orchid]

bird

[novel marten]

bird up!

[sterile orchid]

seeing that there's a bird you can get to follow you now makes me want that but manta, maybe even a big one that takes you places, but you actually get to control where it goes

[round parrot]

How To Train Your Dragon but manta

ACTUALLY
There is a boat in the windpaths that has a manta attached to it! And the manta is the one who drives said boat

[novel marten]

I was thinking of those huge mantas in Prairie village… but you can’t control them

[young ledge]

ah man my message got blocked :( i think it was to long?

[tough coral]

I just want the big mantas in the windpath wind tunnel to have that cling effect to the player so you can actually ride them through the windpath...

[round parrot]

That sounds so fun tbh

[random token]

Fight! Fight! Fight!

[lean kayak]

I'm rly interested to see why the soldiers were guarding the place where the tea brewer had to tiptoe

And why the childs mom got taken away

I think the veteran's son got called to become a soldier as well

[twilit blade]

What time/era does the season of remembrance take place?

[round parrot]

Tiptoeing Teabrewer: The guards were perhaps guarding something of great importance, like perhaps allies who are wounded or guarding an item that would give them the upper hand

Pleading Child: I believe that the parental figure got taken away either because of speaking out their opinion and is needed to be silenced or they are needed for information that they need to know

[young ledge]

in the tea brewers case it could be for protection, if the place they were sneaking was unsafe,, overtaken by dark plants or something?

[round parrot]

It's hard to pin down the exact time of the events in the game in chronological order but what is seen in the memories is that all this happened during a war of sorts

[sterile orchid]

she was obviously sneaking to avoid the soldiers, who were likely to stop her and risk the man's life that she was trying to help more than it already was

[random token]

I'm loving these conversations and theories. I'm lurking. Just can't chat right now. But I love the war and soldier ideas

[random token]

Why was there a sudden explosion? Assuming that's what happened because they're in the air

[lean kayak]

Maybe the turrets in concept art? Which isn't really Canon (yet?)

[round parrot]

Cyan light (from the looks of it)

[young ledge]

hmm true,, i just dont like to think of ancestors as being horrrible beings :,,D

[random token]

What timing I just got a break lol.

And I don't think they're horrible, or evil. They made a big mistake and were just trying to keep their civilization going, not realizing they're causing their own doom. When they did, it was too late

[lean kayak]

They could be bombs?

[round parrot]

OH WAIT
I MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT OF ANOTHER THING HOLD ON

[young ledge]

i was also thinking that they could just be in the unfortunate position. someone above mentioned about how one of the spirits possibly got drafted(is this the word?)* so they dont want to be there but have to

[random token]

Oh yeah definitely. That's also a theory with what happened to the child's mum

[round parrot]

Is this what you meant? If not this is what I meant by lasers

[random token]

If my tush got drafted into that war and I saw those lasers I'm running for vault

[twilit blade]

Sky league of legends

[lean kayak]

I was thinking maybe they are short bursts of lasers, which might cause explosions

[round parrot]

Though I doubt it would be that big to cause an ancestor to fly that high

[random token]

TGC mightve scrapped that idea.

[lean kayak]

We dont know since its concept art

[random token]

Dang it TGC stop being so obscure /j

[round parrot]

Too bad cause the gate to the Vault is locked (to keep others from entering) /lh

[lean kayak]

I did notice however that the 2 statues on the GW temple have darkstone in them and the other statues dont

Dangut why did i delete the pics aa

[random token]

[cold sparrow]

Ancestors can't fly!

[round parrot]

aye?
someone stole them maliciously /thought

[random token]

If the laser concept ever came true, maybe it'd be make out of darkstone? I don't think light hitting beings made of light would have much effect unless..?

[round parrot]

no like
on how high the ancestor went when they were hit by an explosion

[cold sparrow]

Oh!

[young ledge]

maybe a landmine of sorts?

[random token]

It came down from the sky I believe.. I don't know what it's made from

[round parrot]

WHOA A WALL

[random token]

Looks like the kings head

[sterile orchid]

the season of rememberance is the darkest season i've seen so far, all the rest of the ancestors have had pretty happy/everyday stories, so i think they're all good guys we can trust. some of them are bad, and that caused problems for everyone else, but that doesn't mean all of them were bad

[grim python]

yea there’s a massive wall texture back there, pretty much impossible to see from the ground

im guessing it’s just meant to be vault

[round parrot]

Yeah I know! That is why I was hyped

[lean kayak]

You can go into the canon looking thing but its just empty space

This one and the other one have this darkstone looking thing and the others on the ground are empty

[keen shore]

Yeah; Ancestors are like humans, pretty much!

[lean kayak]

Theres also a giant one in the middle but theres a wind wall

[brave elbow]

Whoa what area is that in?

[lean kayak]

Golde wastelandt temple at the battlefield

[twin kraken]

Hey there! Out of curiosity, do all sky kids fall into isle? Or can they fall else where like prairie or forest?

[sterile orchid]

i'm sure that whoever puts your own skykid down into the world chooses where they show up, and the vast majority of them are placed in Isle at the beginning to understand why they're there

[twin kraken]

Ohhh okok wait so what do you mean by whoever puts your skykid down into the world? (Sorry im a bit new to the lore)

[untold notch]

in tlp after the last quest you fall back into the starlight desert

[sterile orchid]

the narrator in the opening cutscene of the game! when you first start out as a moth

[half shadow]

They’re referring probably to the same being that narrates the introduction to the game - many people believe this is the creator god of the world of Sky, some take to calling it “Megabird” which refers to some pieces of concept art that directly label this being. Due to concept art being only loosely related to current canon, the Megabird’s actual impact on the game lore - or if it’s even called the Megabird - isn’t directly known. Most theorizers believe that the general concept of it as the prime deity or some sort of cosmic force. This is one piece of concept art portraying it

In some ways depictions of it remain in game though much more vague, like this from the Orbit sequence making a general shape of a bird or something bird like. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/43c8cd50-6098-4e0b-b9d7-c781bafdde0a

But yeah most people assume the narrator at the start of the game is this god-like figure or force of the universe that creates and sends the skykids down to the world!

when looking for ref pics I found this on google which is pretty neat, I never noticed this could potentially be another megabird depiction. It’s very minimalist but I think it would make sense for the ancestors to depict it with a vague sort of fluidity

[twin kraken]

Ohhh okok thank u guys !! ^^

[half shadow]

no prob! if you wanted to learn more i’d suggest looking up the term megabird within this channel, it’s easily one of the most hotly debated theories and people are always eagerly gathering evidence of its existence lol

[brave elbow]

megabird real, she lives in orbit

[half shadow]

i think it’s funny sometimes when people come in this channel and they ask “who is the king? what’s the megabird? what happened to the sky kingdom?” i always want to reply something like, politely of course, “welcome, we spend almost all of our time trying to figure those things out”

[half shadow]

i am a #megabirdtruther

[sterile orchid]

i just call it "the narrator" because it seems like whatever brings you to the world of sky narrates over ALL of the murals, at least near the start/in cutscenes

[half shadow]

oh yeah for sure, it’s very much present within the Isle which I think makes the most sense. it’s almost giving the new skykids their mission briefing before deploying them into the world to fix stuff lol

[sterile orchid]

and then we die and it ensures we come back to where we can do it all over again until everything is actually fixed

[brave elbow]

'your mission, should u choose to accep'- honkhonkhonk

[half shadow]

Megabird in the sky watching my skykid spent a useless five minutes trying to climb up the large mound in the isle before i even got my first cape: did i accidentally drop this one on its head

[twin kraken]

Megabird be watching me get broke 2 times a month man 😭😭

[half shadow]

Megabird: don’t worry i can help you! step 1. die

[brave elbow]

omg

[sterile orchid]

megabird watches my sky kids standing at the multi player doors honking. and honking. and honking some more until people finally show up

i see someone honk in the distance, i honk at LEAST 3 to 5 times in hopes they come over to help me

[brave elbow]

oh gosh the thinking emote quest 2 ppl were sitting at a table talking right in front of me and another person honking at them

[sterile orchid]

i always check the things that need multiple people on my runs through the game because i know the struggle of not being able to open the doors

[half shadow]

I am always the most annoying spam honker in situations like that. I mainly play on the switch and you can just hold down the button to deep honk over and over and i use this power as often as possible

[brave elbow]

lol tru

[sterile orchid]

omg same

[untold notch]

I find it interesting that switch can deep honk while moving but phones cant

[half shadow]

yeah I think it has to do with just the touchscreen input vs a dedicated button

[brave elbow]

Switch allows players to be a nuisance on the move

[halcyon abyss]

LOL, yes. 100% switch player antics. I've just recently started testing out which expressions I can do while moving. It's hysterical.

A new concept idea hit me for what the world of Sky is. It's just a fun idea my husband and I have been slowly unraveling, so there could obviously be plot holes. lol.

Our thought: That the world of sky we play in, doesn't really exist anymore. That the world we're playing through is a big memory.

[sterile orchid]

you can do so many of the emotes while moving, provided the emote animates only the head/arms of the character

[brave elbow]

The switch however has an insane music system. Only saving grace is touchscreen

[crude flame]

I was once honking at the entrance to the underground forest, and not one, but two groups of sky kids, lead by a chibi, passed me and phased into the ground, so I feel your pain

[topaz minnow]

this happened to me i swear i cried a bit

[brave elbow]

I’m still learning to chibi fall, it’s hard to get it right in some areas BUT the partial snow rn in home space let’s you clip Into the ground and swim thru the grass

[peak pumice]

So, I'm not sure if this is the right channel, but the 4th quest from the Lost Ark says the light is "Said to be a gift from the sky to the earth" and I'm really confused how that clue relates to the light's location in the Daylight Prairie

[crude flame]

This is true! You can become a land shark
And I’m sorry that happened to you too, Dirt
Chibi falling is a very useful trick so I wish you good luck mastering it! I only wish that more people would still stop to help people open the doors they’re clearly standing in front of

[peak pumice]

So I was wondering if it might be more related to the lore of the area?

[sterile orchid]

i think the clue may very well be because of the mantas in the sky being the ones that hold it at first, but then they "give it to the earth" by dropping it onto the lower platform

[peak pumice]

I guess that could be it

Thanks

[untold notch]

also the green light is the earth light

[cold sparrow]

Megabird: Oh, another one of those. They'll get it. Eventually.

[half shadow]

I will now be promoting the Megabird as a giant sentient slingshot that shoots skykids to earth

[rigid mural]

A waterfall of light

[shrewd zenith]

Thinking about the windows in the new Vault area. Like void space outside probably isn't real, but does that imply that once upon a time the Vault had multiple "windows" to the outside?

[untold notch]

in the quests? or the holes in the wall

[sterile orchid]

i do wonder why the vault seems completely enclosed, yet also in the middle of infinite space

[untold notch]

its funny silly like that

[half shadow]

wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff

[rigid mural]

Thinking about how Orbit got similar windows, maybe the Vault was (like) that ?

[brave elbow]

Non Euclidian space

[untold notch]

the ourple

[random token]

the what now

[untold notch]

yknow, the ourple

[random token]

the huH

[brave elbow]

The ourple

[untold notch]

the ourple! vault has purple light and its a common (i think) theory that vault is Like That because of it

[random token]

OhHh omg it makes sense

I thought you meant like an area lol

[halcyon abyss]

Oooh. Yes!! Enchantment on the purple orb :3

It is said they hoard ancient secrets.

[brave elbow]

Vault is just endless library, someone moved a shelf and found the remembrance season space behind it lol

[untold notch]

vault is weird spatially but the repository is Even Weirder

[brave elbow]

Tru, it’s at/below??? The weird shiny ocean floor thing

[halcyon abyss]

After my recent ideas, I like to think the repository exists through the giant diamond of the guide

[brave elbow]

Basement of vault but also it’s got so much space all around it and the shattered look

[lost wing]

Y’all
Pleading child never got to ride a manta 😭

[untold notch]

yeah

[brave elbow]

They can ride the ghost manta in the repository!!! That thing is so fast it’s hard to catch

[sudden smelt]

It tends you yeet you off too

[halcyon abyss]

I wonder if the manta will stay when the season is over.

The manta that was in TLP is no longer there either.

[proud yacht]

What ?

[half shadow]

The manta in the desert shows up if someone is doing a TLP quest!

[calm gull]

You can actually ride it

[halcyon abyss]

OOOHHH!!! THANK YOU!! I had no idea 😄

I was so SO sad when it was gone T.T

[shrewd zenith]

I wonder if the sparkle columns in the Rememberance area in vault are important

[halcyon abyss]

When TLP season started, there was a white manta flying high up in the starlit desert, I didn't see it again after the season ended since I've done all the quests. So knowing it appears when someone is doing a quest makes me happy!!

[rigid mural]

Maybe it will be relevant to the last quest

[rigid mural]

It appears when you come near Beckoning Ruler's island !

[shrewd zenith]

Possibly, you can get pretty high up with it

[calm gull]

I’m so behind on all the lore is there some were i can read all of it

[halcyon abyss]

Random unrelated and no proof theory that the sparkle columns are other memories that can no longer be accessed.

Like at the AURORA concert when you'd see the little red glowly lights as other skykids you can't see.

[brave elbow]

Sparkle columns?

[halcyon abyss]

Truly wonderful, thank you friend!! this makes me so happy :3

[jade river]

people of lore how are yall doing

[buoyant pollen]

Hello

I keep wondering who those guards who arrested the child's mama are

[languid island]

It's all connected to so called darkstone, a material that gave lot of energy but brought destruction, right?

[half shadow]

We believe them to be soldiers from one side of the war that took place in the Golden Wasteland. From what we can tell, there were two sides: one side that uses a diamond symbol, and one side that uses a sun symbol. The diamonds are theorized to be from the faction of Ancestors who were pro-darkstone technology, and the sun faction were against it. We think the conflict came to be due to darkstone technology (also called power diamonds) needing to be powered with Light energy was corruptive somehow. People speculate that light creatures like mantas were drained to power darkstone.

[buoyant pollen]

So this is the source of the darkness!!

[half shadow]

Potentially! It likely got worse after Eden erupted, but there was clear signs of darkness pollution happening around the world too

[random token]

correct

[untold notch]

of people? no, I think some of them occurred around the same time

[random token]

I think they definitely have age rages seeing as there's children, but idk how their age works exactly

[lusty merlin]

We really don’t have a clear answer on everyone’s age itself other than it’s just obvious who are adults, teenagers, and children. I personally think when an ancestor dies then that’s the age they die at like how we perceive ghosts irl. Maybe some died before like with fainting warrior and the seeds memory of wasteland, but I think the majority we see fell when eden could’ve exploded

[untold notch]

abyss likely being an exception

[lusty merlin]

Yaya i can see that

And Wyatt, i bed to differ on all being in the past since some seasons can connect sure, with rhythm and performance but that’s more for story about reuniting family than anything else

And many recent seasons of spirits ascend up after the final quest’s now usually, and we do tend to interact with them directly like seen in abyss, flight, performance, remembrance, ect

(Christ my keyboard is struggling my bad )

[spring python]

I think it’s not only that darkstone is the source of corruption, but corruption itself. Darkstone is known to absorb light, so if water and other animals were to enter in contact with it in ways they should not, they’d then start to also absorb light on touch (in the case of water) or seek to hunt light in an attempt to soothe themselves (in case of creatures)

[random token]

If the sky people saw the first corrupted light creature I'm willing to bet they tried to use it for war purposes

[lusty merlin]

I assume since we have wise grandparent, and they and belonging guide share the same cape, plus with their wax event giving food light which I think many associated with grandparents and a grandma. I guess that’s why they got grandma as a nickname

[hollow vale]

Anyone know/have theories on what the pipes were for in Wasteland?
Were they pulling something in? Or draining something out?
And following that, what is the current sludge?

[empty drift]

You can see in Eden birds use them. Don't know why tho.

Maybe it is the same thing in Wasteland but we just dont see it?

[random token]

I assume it was for darkstone waste or transporting water

[narrow gazelle]

yall.. is anyone knowledgeable on spirit memories n stuff
i wanna know abt stealthy survivor

[brisk python]

they're a survivor bc they were stealthy /j

[river crystal]

so thoughts,(not theorizing,just guessing) we don’t really know what causes or what these explosions are. At first i was thinking that it couldn’t be a krill because it just seems like it wouldn’t create that big of a BOOM,so why not a whale ,if mantas fought in the war why not them, they’re bigger and literally have armor on their head. BUTTT what if the explosion are something like the shattering, since whenever they explode, it tends to shake the whole area,and by looking at the pictures we see it coming down in a ball shape then big explosion,SO could the king/prince be involved with the war?

[cold sparrow]

I've been thinking, after seeing in the concept art, that according to their color keys, this sort of blue light was meant to be associated with the ancestors
Now, I don't know for sure if this idea carried over to the final version of the game, of course, but it could imply that both the krill attacks and the light explosions in The Seed are caused by the ancestors somehow
I've also been thinking that the intensity of these knockbacks looks a lot like when we skykids bump into a red shard
So! Maybe! Who knows

[ember mica]

hey lore chat i’m making a slideshow about the sky story for my moth friends! could one of y’all (or multiple) attempt summarize the mainline sky lore for me so i can add it to my presentation i feel like i know it to an extent but i wanna make sure i hit all the points (it’s a presentation about the main story and the stories of the seasons!)

[novel marten]

I made a quick summary here: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[keen shore]

Our current theory for those blue lights is that they’re cyan light! Used to control the power of air, Sunset possesses them and may have sent them down to cause the cyclone and shut off Wasteland. However, we don’t know for sure, and they could be more similar to the stars you follow around in spirit memory sequences, which project the next stage for you. As the concert segments seem to simply be detailed memories, it would make sense.

[cold sparrow]

I don't know if the idea that they're memory projectors quite agrees with me, because in the first part of The Seed, when our bird gets too close to these blue lights, we get knocked down and lose our light for a moment
They feel like an element that is very purposefully depicted as dangerous and harmful

[half shadow]

I don’t think we’ve seen any other instance where blue light is specifically super dangerous except for the seed song though. Are there any other instances?

[cold sparrow]

Krill spotlights lmao

As I mentioned, at least, according to the original concept arts, the laser turrets were meant to beam blue light because that is (was meant to be) color coded with the ancestors

so blue doesn't necessarily mean danger, but it also doesn't mean harmless

I do find the idea that it's supposed to represent blue light/air power interesting tho

[half shadow]

Yeah I know the color chart you’re speaking of and I do think that most of it has remained in the game just going off of the visual design! Spirits are also a default blue color before being “ascended,” to me I guess it feels sort of like a True Neutral color, like it’s something not entirely familiar and almost a little detached

[broken pendant]

Man imagine if there were turrets in sky.
You approach a suspiciously easy to access gate and then boom

High velocity laser

[halcyon abyss]

I love that they chose cyan for the resting krill eye and red for the charge mode since red is the complementary color to cyan. Such a great choice

[broken pendant]

Didn’t they do the same thing with the war machines

[cold sparrow]

They did! Admittedly, it's an effective color combination
But it's still worth noting that they stuck with this color key, even through all the changes and new ideas they played with during development

on another note, tho slightly related

Been having thoughts on the war, especially after reading the news post about Rememberance again
They called it 'upheaval' and 'turmoil' there, not a single mention of 'war' as far as I can see
There's no doubt that all of this lead to at least one violent battle, perhaps as much of a civil war, as shown by The Seed and artifacts in the Battlefield
But I'm thinking about what came before... Protests in the street, rebellious groups, sabotages of refineries maybe? Would explain why in Rememberance we mostly see guards getting increasingly hostile and oppressive to what seems like civilians
I'm thinking this might have come before the battle we see in The Seed, or both are part of the same uprising developing differently in different areas of the world, and not like... a consequence of the war

[misty warren]

does anyone have a theory on who's the kid we hugged after dying in eden

[untold notch]

Salem does but xy are asleep :(

[halcyon abyss]

I have a theory that it is what is left of the Eden Elder (THAT IS IF THERE REALLY WAS AN EDEN ELDER)

But Salem has very intricately crafted and poetic ways to story tell their ideas :3 So I hope you'll get to hear them!

[primal vale]

I got a theory that the water they were pumping out was the water from Eden or forest? You can also see broken pipes somewhere in wasteland and Eden, so I’m leaning to that
Also makes sense it’s called wasteland, but maybe it wasn’t meant to be one? Reasoning of the broken pipes, it seems like it was an accident

[pastel brook]

but what does it all mean?

[tough coral]

My theory is thats the King!

[pastel brook]

have you considered how the moon phase affects this?

[slim mango]

Decided to create a list my Sky OCs I've been created so far.

Main Characters:
-Lyn (changed her name from Alyn), She/They
-Moa, She/Her
-Mia, She/Her
-Utaridya, He/Him
-Nachi, He/Him
-Espada, He/They

Side Characters:
-Mira, She/They
-Nararli, He/Him
-Artemis, He/Him

Villains:
-Mel, They/Them

[halcyon hull]

About narrator why can't it be voice from core? Like the "inner light" which is mentioned every time you don't go towards the temple for a long time

[halcyon hull]

We also see fragments from race in Valley and "tombstones" of the elders so maybe the skykids just run their whole life before their eyes

[halcyon hull]

It's turned off after completing quests, so probably not.

[halcyon abyss]

Vault floors still "exist" when the shard above the elevator isn't lit.

[halcyon hull]

Oh sorry I forgot

[halcyon abyss]

That's okay, no worries!! You made a great observation :3

[young ledge]

my theory is that it is our own skykid. that skykids are made up of 2 components (light and stone). we get turned into a statue when we die, and after we hug the glowing skykid we return to ourself. the components reuniting revives us and allows us to be reborn.

also that the winged lights found in the realms are the 'souls'(for lack of a better term) of the statues, and when we give them the light it allows for another skykid to be reborn. and the reason our ancestors cant be reborn as their light has been lost/destroyed (we light a candle to their statue in cutscenes and this plays like a projection of their memories)

[misty warren]

ooh that's really cool

[random token]

[last reef]

What if those guards in Vault through SOR were like the corrupted government or the dark lord possessed them

[cold sparrow]

I think it's much simpler than that
The population became restless after the situation with darkstone and the environment worsened, started dissenting. The rulership (King?) because wary and paranoid and increased guards and protection. Guards "just do their job", some not seeing the point of being overly aggressive (see the Wounded Warrior's friend), others being incredibly hostile, possibly over fear of their family or themselves getting hurt in the uprising (see Brewer's memory and the other guards in Wounded Warrior's memory)

As oppression starts to become unbearable, people start to organize and actually march on the gates of the GW temple to try and reach the King?Leads to the battle we see in The Seed????

[last reef]

Oh yeah

Forgot about the huge lore Aurora gave

[pastel brook]

dancing around a shooting star, and every beancell remembers what have taken us this far

[random token]

Shoo skybot I am reading

[random token]

I still question why the child's mother was taken. One theory proposed that she was being drafted for the war, and I also think she was somewhat poor? And stole a manta plush for their kid

[cold sparrow]

That doesn't look how one would draft people. If anything, draft dodgers might get arrested like this. But with general unrest in the area, I think it's likely that they got arrested either for taking part in protests and rebellion, or at least being suspected of such even if they are innocent. Or perhaps got taken away for questioning if they are thought to be in contact with someone that is part of the rebellious activities.

[random token]

Yeah that is true. She could've been a draft dodger then, wanting to stay with their child and I wouldn't blame her. Your other theories are valid though too, I can see it fitting with the story, especially the protesting

[lean kayak]

I cant wait to find out more about pleading kiddo

[round parrot]

I honestly think that the mother was taken for one of two reasons:

1. The side the guards are in need them because the mother has information they want to know
2. I heard someone suggest that the mother was taken to be silenced (from speaking out - possibly about the current situations during their time)

[sterile orchid]

i wonder what the associated item will be for the pleading child, because we have one for each of the others (windchimes for the veteran, the plant for the warrior, tea set for teabrewer)

[cold sparrow]

I think not knowing for sure is on purpose. We see that memory through the eyes of the child, who obviously didn't understand what is happening and why, so I'm sure we won't ever get a clear answer for the parent specifically.

[random token]

Through the eyes of a child 🎵

[timber wharf]

How much is the cosmetics now in this event?

[cold sparrow]

Better to ask that in #questions-and-help or #seasons-events-chat

[tepid veldt]

beat me to it

[haughty ledge]

I always thought it was our other half from the silhouette. Maybe our statue?

[keen shore]

I have an admittedly massive post thread on it, here: #lore-discussion-spoilers message it might help you out a bit

[keen shore]

AUGHHH I just saw this… thank you so much. Drawinf hearts around you 💛

[low spindle]

Looking and reading this makes me think of Light awaits eden.

Where emotes were what was being lost. Seems to be the original idea for loosing memories and giving them to the skykids in eden. Its interesting how wl here are now.

Right now, I can also think the wl we gain through the world actually belongs to the skykids in eden, and we are just bringing it back to their clay husks.

Honestly wl lore is interesting ima read the rest of the posts done there

[brave elbow]

Man could u imagine having to redo all the emotes after eden 💀

[untold notch]

very glad they changed that

[random token]

I would not go to eden ever lol

[brave elbow]

So if the wl are skid souls that we return, are they in stasis until they’re freed again? Imagine getting real close to the storm and no one finding u for a really long time

[sterile orchid]

honestly i wouldn't mind it, it would be a good way to have a "favorites" system so you don't have to scroll through over a dozen things and maybe even use the wrong one by accident. bit i can see how it would be annoying

[low spindle]

Pstt... every spirit in light awaits was a dragging kind too. So you had to drag all of them

[sterile orchid]

oh dear god.

[nova kestrel]

Game Theory:
Fallen/injured warrior is the spirit Bereft veteran mourns for

Partially a joke this might be confirmed idk

[untold notch]

I think they're different, because in the second part of the first quest (this is going to be so annoying to refer to all of the quests later) when the veteran sees their kid, they're very different from how wounded warrior looks

[nova kestrel]

I honestly think they were trespassing or something like that

[sudden smelt]

Maybe thag was him when he was young? Not sure

[untold notch]

also I feel like that kinda lessens the emotional impact of the grief they're feeling lol

[nova kestrel]

They have the same hair as the warrior at the end of the memory and stuff(?)

Curious what the paper the warrior showed Bereft veteran stood for
Also nice proof about houses in that memory

[untold notch]

they don't? veteran's kid has candlemaker hair while wounded warrior has uhhhh I think pouty porters hair

[nova kestrel]

Oops
My bad, memory isn't very good

[untold notch]

it's alright the seasons been out for like four days

[half shadow]

I assume that it was some sort of official decree noting the loss of his kid during the war

[nova kestrel]

Ohhhh that makes sense now

[half shadow]

I still do think it’s really interesting how for the wounded warrior, who has a sheild with the sun design, to have been acting friendly with a spirit who was wearing the diamond emblems. I wanna know the Context

[nova kestrel]

That I didn't notice as I wasn't looking too deep into it 😭

[sterile orchid]

like i've said in a previous message, i think that the different shapes would be for quick identification of soldiers who belong to different realms, further identified by a specialized mask style or pattern, and it's not actually different sides of the war

[half shadow]

That would make some sense yeah, but then why would they be attacked with spears by what appear to be similar diamond-adorned spirits when not doing anything threatening? It seems weird that they would suddenly be attacked by members on the same side as them who look identical

[sterile orchid]

wounded warrior and the soldier he's with when seemingly off-duty are also both fighting together at the start, so it would be even weirder if they weren't on the same side, but were fighting together as if they were

[river crystal]

i really like that, but could there be a possibility that the one of two wl hugging each other in the last shattering memory be a reference or related to the kid who we hug, it could just be a another depiction of the eden cut scene. (im not sure if when you hug the kid is apart of eden or orbit)

[half shadow]

I went back and took some screenshots but I’m even more confused now. So we can see the emblem of the sun on a sheild in the memory but it isn’t one that the wounded warrior is using, it’s the other soldier wearing the diamond emblem. The symbol on the wounded warrior is also kind of odd looking in general. It kind of resembles the king’s head.

But then when they get attacked the spirits that are throwing their spears are identical to the same standard diamond soldiers/guards

is it just that TGC used a standard model for all the soldier-type spirits that weren’t seasonal spirits?

[sterile orchid]

probably
which makes it even harder to tell what's going on

[grim python]

yeah reused models for background spirits are pretty common

[half shadow]

Yeah. I do still kind of think it’s odd to have nearly identical guys being the attackers though, but idk if it can be given much thought or not. We’ve seen the diamond guys being the “aggressors” in other spirit’s memories like the child’s who has their parent taken away and the tew brewer (can’t remember their name rip) having to sneak from them. it’s weird

…. awwwh. when redoing the spirit memories they’ll give you the option to bow at them and a message pops up saying “the spirit greatly appreciates your visit”

oh hey there’s a manta here?? I didn’t ever notice that before. if you fly on it then it takes you up high around the repository which can be helpful to see where the spirits are!

I also went to the child’s memory to see and yep the same guys are the ones who takes their parent away, except they’re bald

[untold notch]

so they're probably not the same people

[dark pivot]

i think thats for days of fortune, cuz the spirits in forest did the same and gave me some wax

[half shadow]

that’s so cute :,)

[half shadow]

Yeah not exactly the same two guys all the time, but still very similar lookin

[untold notch]

yeah! sometimes people wear similar clothes to other people

[random token]

I think they look the same because they're just background characters in a way

[undone shore]

ok so I’m trying to wrap all the sky lore around my head- so if all of the npcs we meet are spirits then is everyone dead 😭

[untold notch]

yeah

[undone shore]

even the season guides??

[untold notch]

yep! also spirits (or flowers. or a real person. or so on)

the guides can get a little funny silly but for the most part they're also spirits

[undone shore]

tgc staff found dead in california 😭💀

[untold notch]

office is also in Weird territory

[untold notch]

this is also a good point- they as people aren't relevant to the spirits stories so they just have generic background spirit stuff (and because modeling is hard)

[lusty merlin]

Everyone is dead, elders are in like a weird limbo state somehow since we can still interact with them

[keen shore]

Almost every spirit has the diamond symbol on their shawl or armor. Like, everyone with the base pants at least. Stagehand has it too for example. It doesn’t seem to be a symbol of a specific side, more so a favored ancestor pattern, like the triangles edging everything they wear

[rigid mural]

I know Tom Zhao's concept art explored shape language, with rounder organic shapes being "friendly" like the orbs of wax and light creatures, and sharper mineral shapes being more aligned with less friendly forces like shards of darkstone and krills

Maybe it's that shape language at work ? Ancestors have round bodies and are friendly to us, but their clothes feature spikes and diamonds that maybe reflect actions they took part in in the past...

[lusty merlin]

YO MAYBE!! COULD ALSO APPLY THIS TO THE ELDERS TOO

[rigid mural]

Thinking about how the elders were designed with a particular shape in mind to be easily recognized...

I know that most noticeably, Dawn is a vertical rectangle, Day a circle and Dusk a downward pointing triangle.

[austere bridge]

round day‼️‼️ /positive

[lusty merlin]

YAYAY Like some of the elder have more rounder silhouettes than others, Day and Night for example. But they also have more pointy elements to contrast that while others are full on pointy like Sah and Dusk for, Rain also fits, everything but the upper part of their hair is sharp and pointy

[rigid mural]

I think it's more design than lore but it's still interesting to single out details the designers added to elicit particular reactions to them

[austere bridge]

hold up I just had the adorable idea of skykids rolling around day while they’re asleep because they’re just that round

[lusty merlin]

Yaya ofcorse

(Gonna ramble but)I feel like for Sah them having a sharper look and how they acted in the cutscene makes them seem more energetic in a way?

Same for Rain many people (unfortunately) see them as cold and mean and I think their design helps contract that, maybe on first look that’s the entire point. But then you see a much softer side of them in their orbit cutscene :,)

[rigid mural]

I think they'd like origami

[lusty merlin]

I agree so true 100% real, They’d make the most elaborate crane you’ll ever see

[lusty merlin]

Also like Rain, bestie all you wanna do is build again, something you’ve seen to do and enjoy but couldn’t for god knows how long. I get why you snatch our light and nearly completely ignore me for most of your cutscene cuz I would too in your position🤝

They needed the enrichment

Like I also get tunnel vision and ignore everything else when I’m in a creative flow

[rigid mural]

I like to think crafty skykids get past their stern facade and see that they're not intentionally cold.

[random token]

Like the Boba (I think) and Kiki shape experiment

@austere bridge and yeah omg what if they rolled down a hill?

[austere bridge]

that would just be silly!

[random token]

Too round to do anything, cancel eden plans, be orb

[austere bridge]

be orb, do no crime

[untold notch]

[random token]

Won't let me react

[shrewd zenith]

Lol, look what depressing thing I found in GW social space. Little one be lonely

[random token]

[lusty merlin]

Think this works better in #screenshots-and-videos

[shrewd zenith]

I dunno it feels lore-relevant as it implies the presence of children or just ancestors in general in social space, having left behind something that you can usually easily take with you, implying great panic and distress in the moment. Considering there are no spirits in the social space except for the ones who appear before the tombstones after we free them, I thoroughly enjoy the implications.

[lusty merlin]

That’s a prop from the little prince though it’s not actually from the social space itself, a player put it there

[earnest briar]

CloudDiver has a great idea there tho.

[shrewd zenith]

Oh is it? Whoops I had no clue XD, I missed so much. There goes my angst lore smh.

[lusty merlin]

Yaya i agree, maybe in future areas it would be sad to see everyday items scattered around in a panic but here it’s just a prop sadly

Everyone in sky is dead but spirits can still interact with the world seen with fortune, feast and other stuff

I guess when you mean flying your referring to flight?

[rigid mural]

I think it's the warrior memory, maybe wyatt got confused because the spirit that dies wears sparkler parent hair ?

[lusty merlin]

Wait I’m really confused now do you mean in wounded warriors memory? Cuz that’s just the same hairstyle yeah

[rigid mural]

In the warrior memory, the florist spirit flies back from the impact of the spears yeah

I call them that because they're unnamed and got flower pots, not official name

[restive flare]

The forest spirit is from the season of abyss, she is the one fishing who sees the krills. I'm guessing this is where she died originally?

[lusty merlin]

Yaya

Plus dreams guide also have sparkler parent hair so I just think it’s a common hairstyle used

[restive flare]

**florest

They r spirits what did u expect?

[lusty merlin]

Yaya, since every ancestor we come across are called spirits, and can just move way more freely turning into sparks and all to zip around after ascending

[restive flare]

The sky kids are not dead, the spirits and elders are basically ghosts waiting for u to do an 'excorsism' so they can go back to orbit

[rigid mural]

They're not the Anxious Angler
Also please refer to spirits as they/them, they're canonically agender ! /nm

[lusty merlin]

Spirits are dead yes, skykids I would say aren’t they’re just dead for a short awhile then reborn, elders are in like a weird limbo space

[restive flare]

I thought they were the anxious angler? You see the spirit from the days of bloom with the crying child later, and most of the spirits are somewhat connected to each other so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the angler

[random token]

Spirits are agender but it's confirmed that we can use different pronouns based off of their appearance

[untold notch]

and that's confirmed where

[random token]

Let me find the screen shot I have it in my big gallery

[random token]

There! Its OK to use gendered terms for spirits who have chosen to present themselves in different ways

[lusty merlin]

see I was also thought about it first but wounded warriors memory wouldn’t have that much of an impact if that was angler and they did happen to live then. Maybe if they had a similar mask in abyss I could believe but it’s just a regular mask

[keen shore]

Hey, could you point out the line where it says that? Thanks

[random token]

Not mad btw just saying it's what the staff said

[rigid mural]

I'm not siding with you in that case 😬

[untold notch]

except that's not what they said

[random token]

It is though it's in the screenshot

[shrewd zenith]

I wonder why ancestors do not reincarnate like Sky Kids do despite also gaving their own mechanics for ascending via Elders. Is it perhaps because there are no ancestors left? (Cause no ancestors can be born anymore but I have no clue how their version of procreation works) Or could Sky Kids perhaps be part of the lights that originally were ancestors recycled and made different by Megabird

[untold notch]

read the rest of the sentence. it is not saying that at all

[lusty merlin]

Yeah it’s basically they’re agender but folks use genders terms anyways despite them being agender

[keen shore]

Could you retype or highlight the exact part where it shows that?

[random token]

I'm not mad at anyone I'm just saying. Also I did I'm just going by what the staff said. It's in there. It doesn't say we can't use gendered terms

[random token]

Right there! And I'm not disrespecting anyone- I'm trans myself and part of the community, but it does say it's OK

[keen shore]

Oh I see the confusion, try reading the whole sentence! Boatgirl is saying that there’s a debate whether it’s ok or not, not that it strictly is. The ‘if’ is a good clue here!

[spring python]

There is a theory than when ancestors do reincarnate they become Sky kids and that’s why we don’t see ancestors reincarnating the way we do

[random token]

Ohh that makes more sense then. I just feel if it's not like, an official statement about strictly not using gendered terms, we shouldn't be like.. how do u say, forcing ppl to use they them for a spirit that presents themselves as feminine

[untold notch]

it might be because they don't go through eden like we do, or because skykids have a different relationship with the Light than ancestors

[rigid mural]

Anyway, yeah I totally understand the confusion, they wear similar clothing ! Ultimately their identity is up to you, I think they reused cosmetics for the florist to show the memory is set in the Wasteland (since Abyss and Remembrance clothing look similar), while the child's caretaker has a hairstyle slightly different from the Days of Bloom guide. Hope this helps

[random token]

And I'm not disrespecting anyone's pronouns, I go back and forth with spirits with they them or she her and he him

[lusty merlin]

I think skykid themselves where made to save the spirits and help them return to the stars, which could imply ancestors couldn’t help eachother do that. I assume why skykids are reborn and ancestors can’t is because they’re still needed

[keen shore]

The trouble is that some dev messages straight up say that spirits don’t have genders while others are more vague about it, complicating the issue further. I will also tell you that agender people can present as feminine or as masculine as they’d like, and still be agender. (They can also use traditionally gendered pronouns — however let’s be real, more often than not, feminine presenting spirits are given she/her pronouns, and vice versa, and if you were a newbie looking here and seeing that you wouldn’t assume ‘oh this character is agender but presents feminine and uses she/her pronouns’, you would assume ‘oh this character is a girl’, which is strictly false)

[atomic lava]

sorry if this isnt helpful but i see this as:
spirits are agender but you are allowed to use gendered terms for them as long as you are respectful and do not invalidate those who feel them being agender is important to them
so probably you are allowed, unless someone doesnt rly like it (not that theyre being sensitive just that its an iffy topic) and asks you to use they/them
(all of this is /gen and i hope it helped)

[untold notch]

which... is exactly what we are asking

[random token]

Yeye I totally get that Salem. Thats why, in real life, we have to chance to ask and confirm with people first, especially if we mess up. And yeah I'm not sure what to do on the second issue

And I understand where some people can be nit picky, but we gotta understand that sometimes we just are customed to using pronouns based off what the spirit looks like

[keen shore]

Also, I do want to mention, in a kind way — as an agender person, knowing the spirits are all agender and seeing them gendered anyways saddens me and makes me uncomfortable. This is because most of the time, when spirits are given gendered pronouns, they’re ones that align with the gender they stereotypically present as. There’s a whole tangle of bad stereotypes about agender (and generally non-binary) people like myself where we have to present as androgynously as possible or we’re not ‘worth’ the effort of not being misgendered, and this feels like it grazes too close to that quite often. I hope this might clear up why I’m generally uncomfortable seeing it

[hushed steeple]

I just watched the movie in the office, so is the world getting hit with a satellite laser like Canon lore

[sudden smelt]

Bruh. Are we rlly arguing ab this for the 294937498th time . We can use whatever pronouns we want for the spirifs. You can use whatever pronouns yall want, no one’s stopping you. But just like no one’s stopping you, pls don’t stop us from using she/him for the spirifs as some of us might prefer

[random token]

I understand your frustration with that. It's just what some people are customed to, and maybe they switch back and forth a lot. Sometimes especially for me it's difficult to when typing, remember who's pronouns are who's and what do I call them.

It'd be helpful if the Staff confirmed pronouns for them

[untold notch]

the movie in office? is it a space day todya

[atomic lava]

youre not allowed to if it upsets ppl, it was stated

[shrewd zenith]

Now I really wonder about the biological nature of Ancestors, as they seem to be far more material then Sky kids which also changes their relationship with the light. Do child Ancestors fall from the sky? Do they get dropped by light creatures into someones yard? Do they appear before the temple perhaps? We know they have familiar structures, do they then have family lineages? Do they have any equilivant of blood or do they perhaps use light in its place?

[keen shore]

Hey, I wasn’t planning on this being an argument; as far as I can tell me and Waters are having a respectful discussion. Can you point out to me where I was aggressive in this message?

[random token]

That's a difficult thing because if it upsets everyone then it should be confirmed by Staff what their pronouns are, but at the same time they're still saying it's ok to use the gendered terms

[spring python]

Office is likely not canon so I wouldn’t consider anything there too hard

[random token]

Is ok cosmic we're just discussing

[sudden smelt]

Yeah…. But confirmed pronouns or not, the spirifs mahbe canonically a gender but I like to, in a word, “gender” them as boy or girls.

Helps me, but none of you need to do that. I’m saying do whatever you prefer and don’t “force” spirit pronouns onto other people

[livid crypt]

devs haven't been 100% clear on this, but I've paid attention enough that I think I can maybe help a little: spirits and characters are intentionally left unspecified. There have been a couple instances in social media where a character gets a pronoun, but not necessarily intentionally. Granny has been called granny, so that's hard not to assign gender.

There's an important reason for this: Sky is a global game, with people from all backgrounds, and TGC not only wants people not to feel excluded, but wants each player to feel then can recognize themselves in the world they've created.

For the purpose of discussing spirit genders in this server: There is no right answer. Nobody gets to say that spirits are one thing and not another. Nobody gets to say that another person's view of the characters is wrong.

[untold notch]

At last, you return to this world. Remember, Child —
your light is a gift.
All are given breath by starlight.
The first of us lived in joy that we would one day return to the stars.
Together, we built a Kingdom in the clouds.
We connected the seven realms with the power of starlight.
But then the sky went dark, and our Kingdom shattered.
Many of us are still trapped in these realms.

Please, Child… Bring your light to our fallen spirits.

this tidbit of the intro text might have some info on that but i am Tired so i will leave the semantics to you
(from a transcription of the new intro by Salem and Tac!)

[random token]

-implodes

@keen shore I didn't mean to start anything I just wanted to point something out. I can see your point is what I'm tryna say. Ty for discussing politely

[keen shore]

No problem! This is honestly the first fully clear explanation we’ve gotten on it, hence the confusion

[snow cosmos]

i get how for a lot of people it feels easy or normal or natural to assume that people's pronouns correspond with the impression they give off physically - this comes from learning all our lives that these criteria mean "boy, he/him" and those criteria mean "girl, she/her". it's understandable, but at the same time, if we leave the conversation there, we're doing a massive disservice to people outside the binary, or those whose pronouns and presentations don't match. again, i get where you're coming from, but i would very much encourage you to, if you can, push against those preconceptions, and go out of your way to not make assumptions about people - or characters - just because of how they look /gen, nm

[atomic lava]

its just a respect thing if youre getting mad at ppl feeling uncomfortable when you use gendered terms you shouldn’t push it (all i say is gleaned from boatgirls official message)
its ok to use gendered terms but you need to respect others !

[random token]

I wouldn't get mad at people for feeling uncomfortable that's a big no no. Sorry if it seemed like it did.

I'm having difficulty explaining my words a lot I don't have a big vocabular y

[rigid mural]

Wait I'm confused, I thought this was the mod statement ?

[spring python]

Also a lot of the times people follow a really cisnormative way of choosing pronouns, which is upsetting (long hair= girls = she/her)

[atomic lava]

no worries the first message i replied to was a bit aggressive so thats why i said mad but youve been just fine ! thanks for being nice with me

[sudden smelt]

How…. Is calling a spirit a girl or boy disrespect to others tho. I’m not gendering other irl people, but a character in the game. It’s just my personal viewpoint of the game and just as any other person is allowed perspective, I too am entitled to seeing spirifs as boys or girls (even tho others may see differently, and that’s ok)

[random token]

I think the mods and others' message explains it best

[untold notch]

ill be straight up when i first joined this discord i saw people gendering the spirits and thought that was how they were but now i am here and i have found people like me (does not elaborate whether they are real or fictional) and well its a bit personal now

[random token]

I do my best to say they them but occasionally I do use gendered terms because I'm scramble

I cannot reacr to you Astral but I would put handshake and green heart

[hushed steeple]

Where do spirit's come from? I know the sky kids are like reincarnated but we've seen child characters so does that imply they were like born? Or were they sorta just made or popped into existence?

[livid crypt]

as you can see, mods and devs are each individuals, and we all try to say things that support each other, but sometimes are unclear. I asked privately for guidance from TGC staff and received confirmation that language is indeed tricky at times, even between native speakers, and complicated ever more when we have to communicate to people with very different language skills or ideas. So my message is meant to reinforce and maybe slightly correct what Boatgirl said: The spirits have ben given no gender. Or they are not canonically any specific gender, or any at all. It's open to interpretation specifically because that makes the game more accessible to more people, and yes, because that can include agender and other non-binary types

[rigid mural]

I got this, it explains better my opinion on that. Just replace characters from Undertale with Sky characters.

[shrewd zenith]

Can this discussion please happen anywhere else but in the lore chat? Ask for your own channel or something bit please stop bringing it up again all the time, its very upsetting. I thought this chat was for theorizing and hunting lore tibits

[atomic lava]

i think they came to the land from somewhere? we see them come to the land on boats and stuff
i think it does say though that everything comes from light or starlight ? if youre asking their origins

[keen shore]

It would not be disrespect to the character itself, as you can’t disrespect a fictional character, but imagine being a feminine presenting non-binary person (for instance, this is just a random example) and whenever you see non-binary people that look like you, instead of them being treated as non-binary, people automatically assume they’re girls. If you get misgendered a lot due to that, as most non-binary people do, it would hit extra hard

[random token]

Nintendo trailer shows that maybe, some not all, came from a different land

[keen shore]

You can mute the channel for awhile if you’re not interested in the current discussion, but asking us to avoid entire topics is a bit too much 💛

[restive flare]

Spirits used to be living ppl in the land sky occupies now. There was an unspecified 'cataclysmic event' that kinda hasnt been elaborated on much in the lore, and then the people died in various ways that left their spirits or memories behind. Your task is to relive those memories so the lingering spirits can leave the land and head back home to "heaven" in orbit

[shrewd zenith]

Exactly I keep wondering about it, are they perhaps clay based as well? We know that they return to mega bird eventually, implying they have some kind of inner light at the very least.

[sudden smelt]

There is a difference between misfendering irl, sky spirits cannot be misgendered bc you can have different views from them; plus it is a game too

Everyone is entitled to their own views on the spirits

[hushed steeple]

@shrewd zenith what's megabird?

[untold notch]

is this entire discussion not proof that spirits can be and are misgendered?

[rigid mural]

It's open to interpretation specifically because that makes the game more accessible to more people
In what way ? I genuinely don't understand what you mean, is it to make room for both nonbinary folks and folks uncomfortable using they/them ?

[sudden smelt]

Bruh didn’t the mods just say that spirifs can have pronouns however you deem fit for them and that it’s open to interpretation

[livid crypt]

it's ok for people to discuss that here. it matters a lot in some people's views of the lore of the game, and it matters a lot to people who don't always feel represented. It's not always comfortable to be part of a discussion that involves groups you're not a member of or terms you're not familiar with, and in those cases, sometimes it's best to listen and gain new perspectives

[shrewd zenith]

Probably spoilery so if you don't mind, but Megabird is that giant light-thingy we see in Orbit. Its basically the "God" or the "cosmos" of Sky

[restive flare]

Megabird is the big light before orbit ( my own headcannon) and is the overarching 'God' or higher power in sky. You are sent by megabird to save sky

[earnest briar]

Cosmic, think of it this way. Would you like it if people kept saying 'No you're y' when you want them to call you x?

[random token]

It's ok to argue I think as long as it doesn't get out of hand, and that's when mods step in

[hushed steeple]

I hope we get more info on megabits, it sounds cool

[sudden smelt]

I just kinda feel like I’m obligated to use they them pronouns for the spirits just bc other people want me to, which I’m uncomfortable with. I think that I shouldn’t be “forced” to use they them pronouns just as other people aren’t “forced” to gender spirits

[shrewd zenith]

I am nonbinary, and thus a member of that group and this discussion has happened more then 5 times in less then a week. I am beyond tired of it and I have seen all perspectives mentioned seen repeated plenty of times. I am beyond annoyed and uncomfortable and this discussion is going nowhere.

[sudden smelt]

You are giving an irl situation. This is a game where spirits have no feelings. They are fictional, call them whatever you wish

Fictional spirits have no correlation to irl people

[keen shore]

It’s similar to this, but a little to the left; more like whenever you see characters look like you and have your same identity, people staunchly insisting they’re obviously something else because they have a beard or a skirt or whatever. It doesn’t take a lot of thinking from that point to realize — but I look like those characters too, are they saying they don’t accept my identity based on the way I look as well?

People have gotten really and weirdly stubborn about gender in this chat in the past, in various gross ways I don’t want to bring up, but you might see if you stick around long enough.

[livid crypt]

I don't want to risk sounding too official about this because I know mods can be seen as official representatives. All we really are is official representatives of the community, so we learn from you too! But what I mean is that there is no wrong answer to the question of gender, or indeed many parts of the lore. Some things are left as a blank canvas on which we can project our own selves, our thoughts and ideas. Faces, for instance: characters don't look too much like anyone, so everyone can feel they are themselves

[spring python]

I advise looking up as tho why representation matters and why taking that away from minorities can harm them irl ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[keen shore]

Do you think you could be a bit kinder about your communication? We don’t want this to devolve into an argument, after all. Remember, there are people on the other idea of the screen.

[livid crypt]

that's fair. I wish there were an easy answer to this debate, but that's why it keeps coming back

[earnest briar]

Yes, but Spirits being nonbinary is one of the few cases I've seen in media where nonbinary people have some proper representation that is seen as normal and not an outlier. Imagine if it was the other way around. Imagine if you were the one being told that having a gender is a gross thing and that it shouldn't be normalized or respected because 'it's not right'.

[spring python]

As a cis person I generally advise to listen to the gender minorities, it’s an issue I don’t have stakes in, but other people do. Just my take personally. ❤️

[sudden smelt]

If ya wanna see the spirits as they the, agender that’s fine! You go right ahead XD but I see the spirits as boys and girls bc that’s MY perspective. I’m not forcing you to see them as boys or girls, so I do not understand why I can’t see them as boys or girls

No one’s taking anything away from anybody I do not understand why y’all think this is the case

[shrewd zenith]

It can be solved easily by doing this: being civil and not constantly fighting on it. These are fictional characters.

[rigid mural]

I think calling spirits "they/them" in lore chat allows for more room to theorize tbh, because calling them "he" or "she" imposes your views on the person you're talking to, and they may be led to believe you're right. Not to mention some ideas are simply automatisms from filing cosmetics in clear cut boxes of feminine or masculine, which opens another can of worms.

That and I'm not talking to you for an official TGC statement, but because you're the one enforcing the rules.

[untold notch]

i really wish it were that simple

[restive flare]

Question: do we have any confirmed deaths for the spirits? Bc I've got some head cannons about some of them but the only one I can really think of that we see die is the fainting spirit behind one of the pillars in gw

[random token]

I think all of them are dead, unless you mean in the way they died?

[earnest briar]

Uh, I think Cackling Cannoneer? It's implied they may have drowned/got eaten by the Leviathan while searching for diamonds.

[restive flare]

And also maybe the cackling cannoneer when he drowns? I'm not sure

[untold notch]

in my time on the internet, i've noticed that sometimes people really hate even the thought of being wrong, and will dig their heels in no matter how much evidence opposes them

[restive flare]

@random token yeah the way they died

[keen shore]

Same here. Especially non-binary people who don’t present perfectly androgynously; I almost never see them represented, and that’s why seeing them in Sky is so important to me. It hurt (and still does, a little bit) a lot to see people take that away just to give them the stereotypical genders they’d see in almost every piece of media ever

[random token]

I don't think anyone is very wrong in this, just two viewpoints colliding and difficulty to understand another's side

[earnest briar]

Hey Salem can I chat you a few pictures? It's about nonbinary characters in a series I like

[untold notch]

yeah, and i'm not referring specifically to right now either

[livid crypt]

if you're uncomfortable with "they/them" pronouns, I wholeheartedly recommend that you try to get acquainted with the terms. They/them are perfectly good neutral terms that can be used for males and females and mixed groups in addition to nonbinary folks. When in doubt, or when in public chat, they/them should be considered the polite way to refer to anyone whose gender is not known to you. If you're discussing one person's theories in which they represent their own ideas of spirit genders, try to go along with the terms they use. If you're representing your own ideas, I think you have the freedom to express gender as you choose. If it were up to me, all gendered language would be abolished, and we'd only use specific terms where it made a functional difference

[spring python]

Again, there are a lot of resources written by gender minorities to help you understand what’s wrong with this statement. I advise you look it up, because as another cis person, it’s not our place to decide whether or not representation is being taken away.

[shrewd zenith]

Well in rememberance the Old Ancestor the Tea Brewer seens to be crying over is implied to have died while they were away. Either from old age or illness, not sure tho

[sudden smelt]

YES EXACTLY. I don’t know why we’d are fighting ab this for the 4th billionth time.

[keen shore]

That last sentence, based

[random token]

what if we're just humans

[untold notch]

i think we as a society peaked when we just made noises at each other /hj

[shrewd zenith]

We ought to emulate sky kids and just honk at each other

[pastel brook]

Using emulators is against the Sky TOS, @shrewd zenith. Please don’t use or discuss emulators here.

[spring python]

We’re not fighting everyone is doing their best to stay patient and explain why they’re hurt, and I guarantee you we’re more than tired but still remaining calm 😭

[livid crypt]

haha. skybot wins again

[half shadow]

It’s less of an issue of individual spirit misgendering and moreso about how using visual indications of things like long hair and dress = girl or short hair and pants = boy. It’s difficult for some to fully get around that way of automatically assigning people either he pronouns or she pronouns due to the fact that it’s become what present day society in many places of the world expects, which to a degree is understandable.

However in the case of non-binary people or trans identities in general, they may look any number of ways. For non-binary and agender people especially there is a common issue where if somebody non-binary dresses either “masculine” or “feminine” aka not totally androgynous, they get automatically clumped in with either male or female, which leads to irl misgendering.

The real issue here I think for a lot of people isn’t “this spirit looks like a boy and this one looks like a girl,” it’s the idea that there are players who look at the spirits, notice these visual traits, and automatically decide that those traits relate to strictly female or male gender because it is what they consider to be “normal.” When in reality, and especially so for non-binary and people of other trans identities, this isn’t the case. If a player sees these traits as automatically male or female with video game characters, then there’s a highly likely chance that they do so in real life, even if they aren’t thinking about it. That’s what truly makes non-binary people uncomfortable about this situation.

[keen shore]

Again, we’re not fighting, or at least I don’t think we are. You seem to be assuming that quite a bit; could you point out clearly where we were aggressive to you?

[rigid mural]

Man I want to be a bird, no obligations, no capitalism, just beep beep

[keen shore]

YEAH THIS IS EXACTLY IT thank you so much, you explained it really well

[untold notch]

in a kinder world i could be a cat

[livid crypt]

general advice for all situations in text chat: if you start to feel mad, walk away! come back with a clear head and assume the best of others

[random token]

I think it gets overwhelming when many people reply at once, to one specific person

[sudden smelt]

Emulate

[pastel brook]

Using emulators is against the Sky TOS, @sudden smelt. Please don’t use or discuss emulators here.

[random token]

Bc I know what it like and I'm sure other ppl do

fish

[spring python]

I’m gonna reincarnate as a krill

[sudden smelt]

Manta

[tepid veldt]

and i’d probably be a duck

[random token]

I want to be an owl

[livid crypt]

one of the things I think we all love about Sky is that we're all allowed to be ourselves in-game. Some games push a very specific kind of persona, physique, and yes gender on the players, and we all kinda forget that it can be uncomfortable because it's so normalized in the gaming industry among other places. and of course the other thing that I've said for years about TGC: none of their games give players the agency to commit violence against other players, or any incentives to compete

[spring python]

I’ll let you sit on my head

[rigid mural]

I think it diminishes the issue, this is far from the first time it shows up, and it genuinely makes it difficult for me to hang out in lore chat knowing people see "none" as "either" when it comes to pronouns, especially if the mod team itself can't agree on what to say.

That and some other worse stuff I've argued about here makes some of us feel straight up unsafe, I think reducing the issue to something that could be fixed by taking a break is pretty bad considering I face that everywhere, including irl too 😬

[half shadow]

Ultimately it has nothing to do with video game characters at all, it just has to do with asking for players who aren’t either used to being confronted with non-female and male gender identities to perhaps take a moment when assessing the spirits and ask themselves “well, why exactly do I think this spirit is male? the character has a beard, and that makes me think of men. but aren’t there people who have beards and aren’t men in real life? or people in real life who wear dresses and aren’t women? then why should i automatically assume that’s the case with the spirits?”

The strict use of neutral gender pronouns as well ingame indicates that, in lore, there may very well not be such a thing as “male” and “female” at all, which is another thing to consider. It’s genuinely okay if this isn’t something you’re used to - say you just haven’t met many people who don’t consider themselves male or female, or you don’t know many of the terms people describe themselves with. That’s okay. It’s fine if you don’t know about this sort of thing. But it’s always a good idea to be open to these kinds of ideas, and instead not reply with defensiveness when others bring it up.

[random token]

I'm used to calling people they them i just, idk why. Occasionally even she or him goes out in the same sentence

Is not something I can rlly control with spirits but I can definitely remember people pronouns just FYI

[sudden smelt]

Y’all bring up very good ideas and I understand, you’re allowed your perspectives. but I see the spirits as boys and girls and that’ll be that

Good day

[half shadow]

alright bye!

[livid crypt]

generalized advice doesn't always apply, and I didn't mean to say that if you feel disrespected or unsafe that you should stay quiet or walk away. Some online arguments should be easy to walk away from, but anything that's meant to cause harm, to express intolerance, or to divide us shouldn't be allowed to stand

[untold notch]

byeeeeeee [hi baud]

[tepid veldt]

[wait baud is here??]

[random token]

I think we is done

[spring python]

Bye!

[untold notch]

[baud is lurking you can see him on some of the reacts]

[random token]

now theories on where the sun symbol came from on the soldiers?

Or what it represents

[half shadow]

there’s also the nuance obviously that some people can use gendered pronouns or terms while still being non-binary/agender, but yeah for me personally I automatically default to they/them just because of how much it’s consistently affirmed in the lore of the game and outside the game as well.

[atomic lava]

this is a rly good clarification its important not to get too mad but if someone is disrespecting you its different

[atomic lava]

sun symbol ? i haven’t noticed it could you get pics

[random token]

I'm scrambled if it's not someone real or having confirmed pronouns so I just go shehimthey in sentences

[rigid mural]

My apologies, I didn't get personally attacked by your comment, it's just that in this specific instance, I'm invested enough about lore chat being a safe space on this public server for me to not just walk away when someone asserts they can't use nonbinary pronouns.

[untold notch]

they/them is a common default if you don't know someone's pronouns!

[random token]

Wounded warrior! I don't got pic :(

[atomic lava]

ooh ok i can just look it up then ty ! brb with thoughts

[random token]

Oh I kno that I do that a lot. It's just that I type out different pronouns if I'm scrambled sometimes and then correct it if I remember

[untold notch]

i remember seeing that in their memory as well, but i didn't get a picture - i believe its commonly theorized that the two shield types were the two sides of the war in wasteland

[tepid veldt]

im just curious, do yall use they/them for people who you dont know the pronouns for irl? its something ive been thinking about doing but a little worried people will look at me weird (which i mean they already do but hey no shame here)

[livid crypt]

well I'm not going to keep it secret: it bothers me if someone refuses to use nonbinary pronouns in situations where it's either clearly warranted, or would at least be polite to do so

[white junco]

i got one

[random token]

It's a default yeah

[keen shore]

I’ve got a picture, I just have to figure out how to post it without discord flagging it as inappropriate cause of the color scheme or whatever

[earnest briar]

So Salem whatchu think of Serenade

[rigid mural]

Glad we're on the same page, and thanks for allowing this discussion !

[tepid veldt]

just doodle something over it or put a slight filter, normally does the trick

[livid crypt]

sometimes cropping or making minor color edit can help if the discord image censor is blocking an image

[atomic lava]

i wonder if it has anything to do with the One in the murals to me when theyre drawn with the crown thing it looks a bit like a sun !

[spring python]

Try putting a noise filter and putting it at really low opacity, it also works sometimes

[random token]

Spirits must've had perfect eyesight bc they never wear glasses

[half shadow]

I do yeah, you’ll find that most of the time you don’t actually have to say them outloud when first meeting somebody. If you’re just talking one on one, you’ll tend to use their name. However if you feel weird about asking someone for their pronouns you can usually get an indication by picking up how other people refer to them as well. (i know this isn’t sky lore related i’ll get back to topic now)

[livid crypt]

image censors even bonk mods. we have zero control over them!

[tepid veldt]

bonk the image censors

[half shadow]

I really think that the symbol looks like the king’s noggin tbh

[random token]

A picture of titan from megamind got labeled as explicit when I tried to send it

[spring python]

Your bot is stronger than you, how does it feel

[untold notch]

its not even skybot its discord itself

[livid crypt]

no, it's not the bot doing it. discord stops the image before it's even sent!

[keen shore]

Doodle something over it? I can do that…
this is the person wounded warrior was fighting alongside!

[spring python]

Ooh

[shrewd zenith]

I always use they/them pronouns, even when I do know someones pronouns lol. Its my default. But I care very little, if at all, about gender. Most people don't care about people using they/them irl, they won't even notice in fact unless someone points it out and thats unlikely to happen.

[rigid mural]

HELP

[random token]

We always label the diamond side as the side after the darkstone, and the sun side protesting it, but what if it's the opposite?

[tepid veldt]

i lost it

[white junco]

salem ily

[livid crypt]

no, you can't doodle cat ears and a tail over image. that is not allowed.

[rigid mural]

Giving you a fursona

[random token]

sky x furries

oh no not prophecy

They even had a spider

[untold notch]

i wanted to talk about berefts chair at somepoint because theyre already kinda huge for disability rep with their cane but what if thats a wheelchair as well

[rigid mural]

Alex is it ok if I draw you a bear fursona

[spring python]

A mouse wrote this

[livid crypt]

I can't stop you

[random token]

Bereft is a disability rep? can you tell me more about that

I don't think I saw the wheelchair

[rigid mural]

WHEEZES

[tepid veldt]

they have a cane in their teaser art, is there smth else that im forgetting?

[untold notch]

i dont have a picture of this either but in one of their memories (and their card?) they have a cane which is a mobility aid the wheelchair is something i want to be real that may not be

[random token]

I thought it was because he's an old spirit

[tepid veldt]

if we pretend hard enough maybe tgc will make it real

[white junco]

old people can be disabled

[random token]

O that makes sense

Idyll we tried with the manta plush

[shrewd zenith]

Actually Bereft Veteran is less pure disability and more elderly with disability/mobility issues. I think the chair resembles a single person couch more then a wheelchair. Especially as he can still walk

[tepid veldt]

im still waiting

[random token]

No way! /j

[untold notch]

I have one reason for this and it is the diamond shape on the chair because darkstone is also diamond shaped. that's all. don't mind me levitating I just do that sometimes

[rigid mural]

Omg that's me hii

[random token]

pushes you back down

there

[untold notch]

thats you!!!! hiiii

[tepid veldt]

yall have such banger outfits

[random token]

My outfit is in me piccrew bc I'm a scrunkl

[rigid mural]

I remember my manta wheelchair idea

[shrewd zenith]

Eh its more decoration and less real darkstone diamond but it can be a fun concept for future characters

[untold notch]

also about darkstone, I thought the wind chimes were interesting in how they float (they are perfectly functional and have normal collision physics)

[spring python]

It would make total sense if wheelchairs in the sky kingdom were powered with darkstone

[random token]

what if too much darkstone. Speed chair?

[tepid veldt]

i happen to adore the collision physics but am too broke to afford them

waters i think that becomes a racecar

[untold notch]

yeah, to me it kinda is an umbrella for any sort of power, be it electric or nuclear or what have you

[atomic lava]

never heard this but ik the valley twins appear to have prosthetic arms

[tepid veldt]

half expected tac to show up

[random token]

I never noticed the tiny details in the elders

[untold notch]

@lusty merlin when you're next free - to me you re the valley elders person and i know for a fact you have images of these

[random token]

What if they tried making a faster manta by combining it with darksfone and then oops a krill

[tepid veldt]

race mantas on drugs?

[random token]

That's a sad thought now that I think about it

[atomic lava]

i think i downloaded it actuallly let me look

[sudden smelt]

Just like racing horses on drugs 😭

[keen shore]

Also Dawn has a cane, they get forgotten a lot 😔

[untold notch]

oh right they use their staff as a cane right

[random token]

Exactly that's what it reminded me of Very sad

[sudden smelt]

WHAT THE VALLEY TWINS HAS PROTHETIC ARMS

[untold notch]

method acting by forgetting to include dawn elder

[random token]

yoink

mine now

Also that explains art I saw of them without an arm.

[atomic lava]

found it guys !!!

[tepid veldt]

(pssst i remember crimson also being a valley elder enjoyer because well two of them)

[random token]

I forget how tiny we are

[untold notch]

YESSSS runs around sorry

[random token]

Maybe they participated in a war, or injury during sports? Competitive that is

[keen shore]

You might also notice they only have one eye each, on opposite sides as their prosthetic arms :0 they may have simply been born/fallen (however elders come into existence) like that

[untold notch]

this is something that ive seen from several people (al, tac, maybe others) but it was something about sunset each having a "damaged" side thats all scarred, and theyre on opposite sides

[random token]

Maybe in a way, they're two halves of a whole

[tepid veldt]

i dont have a link to we are one and i am two this is not good

[keen shore]

I have seen the theory a couple times that they split from each other hence the mirrored sides, but I think an old livestream transcript disproves that sadly. The two halves is probably true just in a more metaphorical way; their statue seems to imply that. Their hair mirrors this too in a really interesting way if you’d like me to explain

[random token]

If you got the time / energy

[spring python]

Also since they’re meant to represent Sunset, there being two of them makes it mirror the fact that day and night are coexisting

[white junco]

https://archiveofourown.org/works/40284843

[keen shore]

YEAH I WILL

so there’s this theory that each of the elders’ hair mirrors a creature they’re associated with. is based off the folded wings of a bird, are spread butterfly wings, etc. How this ties back to the way their hair represents them being two halves of a while is that resembles a manta while resembles a darkstone shard (interestingly, the only non living one). Since refineries and the concert largely imply in various ways that mantas were the chief source of light fuel for darkstone, mantas and darkstone can definitely be seen as ‘two halves of the same whole’, especially in Valley, where both are exceedingly common aspects of the city (manta racing and dsrkstone devices)

[random token]

AGH?? that's so good though?? I remember seeing a theory similar of that somewhere about the hair thing- but never really looked into it. Once you pointed it out though (and ty for putting the emojis there that helped lol) I could understand. I like that theory.

[untold notch]

blood fursona

[spring python]

Alternatively their hairs are meant to represent a shield and a spear and when the elders combine like Voltron, they’re the weapons /j

[keen shore]

Thank you!! I’ve tried to track down the person who originally proposed it quite a few times but never been able to,, it’s one of my favorite theories because it’s such a neat observation and I’ve expanded on it a little

[random token]

S.U fusion /j

[brisk python]

was also about to make a steven universe joke fjsjjgg

[keen shore]

For a while we didn’t know what resembled if anything at all, but eventually it clicked — theirs is based off the ancestors’ shawls/headscarves (they’re kinda combined, I think you know what I’m talking about) which I think is incredibly sweet

you can also see it on them for instance

[storm granite]

Wonder what put these giant scratch marks in the Abyss tower

[snow cosmos]

i think the word you're looking for is "cowl" for the scarf/shawl thing

[random token]

[brave elbow]

giant thing in the deep. theres 2 of them tho so idk

[random token]

I think it was from a ship, krill, or the king krill (I call the big guy that)

[atomic lava]

thats what ive been going crazy abt krill arent big enough and king krill seems fully aquatic

[keen shore]

YEAH I LOOKED IT UP AND I THINK IT IS

[random token]

Wait wait wait minutes hold on, that symbol, awfully familiar to the sun shield symbol

[atomic lava]

maybe the sun is like the symbol of the kingdom? since we see it everywhere

[random token]

Maybe so! I think it from the two opposing sides tho, the diamond and the sun, and the sun symbol on wounded warriors chest looks like that one on the tower

Also what if warrior of love and wounded warrior met

[brave elbow]

could also resemble the memory cubes

[atomic lava]

hm interesting theory

[random token]

I try to make sense but I don't always get my words out right

[keen shore]

The sun symbol often represents light (and in one case the sun) in several murals, while diamonds are heavily tied with darkstone - likely because they’re the same shape. Also, as you may notice from light and dark creature designs, TGC generally tends towards round shapes for non threatening things and spiky geometric ones for things to be wary of.

First picture is an Isle mural where you can see the sun symbol being used for light, second is where you see it depicting the actual sun (or maybe Eden or the light, it’s unclear, but all support my point) and the final picture is a diamond emblem you often see around refineries

[random token]

Oh ye I remember reading about that. But if both sides' symbols are spiky, wouldn't that both be threatening? I mean, TGC would be making a point if both sides in war are threats

[atomic lava]

i think the way the light here is represented might be as nice as you can represent it ! light in this game is beautiful and natural and life giving and i think the lines stretched out are just to show that it is a great light , with beams
iykwim

[keen shore]

We aren’t sure yet as we don’t have much opportunities to see a fully unified symbol of the kingdom (maybe implying it was only fully united later in the timeline, meaning symbols didn’t have much time to spread? much to think about ) but this is my guess as to it. You see it in home where all the realms are arranged. I like to think it’s a stylized map where Eden is the lone ‘tail’ and Valley is the center, as shown in second image

[random token]

growlsnand bites tgc for confirmations

[atomic lava]

never noticed how the map lines up !!!!! super cool

[random token]

Oo nice job on that. Also, I never asked but why is the prop area looking like that? Somewhat of the eden king shape

The map also got a bit of a diamond shape

[brave elbow]

Omg that’s cool!

[random token]

It's things like that where when you look deeper you have an "OF COURSE!" moment

[rigid mural]

Salem what if the center was the wind paths

[half zealot]

Hello Lore chat, are there any murals of turtles?

[random token]

I think but I don't have any.. maybe in sanctuary?

[untold notch]

hello c, i have no idea sorry

[random token]

Whats with the explosion hssnbddn

[half zealot]

that’s okay! I don’t need it, it isn’t urgent - it’s just something I’m wondering for clothes patterns and the like

Also! Are there murals of birds?

[strange lion]

I’ve never seen one that was identifiably a turtle I don’t think. If it’s clothes, there’s water prophet’s cape?

[random token]

There's def some of birds I'm not sure where

[brave elbow]

I’ve got a theory , seeing this , that both symbols represent the kingdom (diamond and sun) so they’re both visible in the map

[keen shore]

Yes, in the isle temple!

[untold notch]

there might be some on the mural page as well

[random token]

Yes definitely! I could see that as true

Also why was nobody else exploded I'll cry /j

[keen shore]

I could totally see both sides of the war putting those symbols on top of the map as like, propaganda

[half zealot]

Bashing through the doors of the isle temple for answers

[random token]

WHATre those REACTS

[keen shore]

the Eden Diamond wrote this

[brave elbow]

This symbol represents the skykids that appeared afterwards I think, or soul/spirit(not spirits tho lol) bc it’s where our instruments and items are

[random token]

You guys are goofy in a good way

[strange lion]

We are communicating

[light loom]

Just a random lore shower thought,
What if the season guides used to be sky kids?

[strange lion]

It’d explain why they don’t vanish like the other spirits

[brave elbow]

They vibin

[light loom]

It would also explain why you can hug or give high fives to them

[untold notch]

the logistics of when or if spirits ascend/descend is not very clear, i've found

[strange lion]

True! Maybe a different application of the same technology that made us

[light loom]

Yeah

[white junco]

mm, but you can also interact with some regular spirits, like the lightseekers on sapling days

[light loom]

That’s a good point

[brave elbow]

Maybe once we help them spirits they can choose whether or not to interact with us. Some of them want hugs

[white junco]

i want to hug more basegsme spirits. tgc please

[keen shore]

I think ancestors just really like hanging out with us and giving us hugs and high fives

Source: it is real in my heart

[untold notch]

let us hug candlemaker!!!! i need to give them a fishing hat

[white junco]

candlemaker my dad (gender neutral)

[brave elbow]

Tgc needs to introduce manta taming bc I wanna participate in races for REAL

[random token]

I dreamed about this- in a dream

[untold notch]

i would think thats where you dream about things, yes /lh

[strange lion]

I kinda think we fly on a manta racecourse in the flying race but a separate one with actual mantas could be neat

[white junco]

nah i dream when i’m awake

[brave elbow]

Yeah plus the memories , but it’s only flying alongside manta racer spirits

[spring python]

My sky kid looks so cute that I don’t blame ancestors for being absolutely smitten

[sudden smelt]

A separate mini game like the hermit race

[untold notch]

understandable have a great day

[atomic lava]

if you dont find any in murals you could always look at the map shrines they seem to be in similar ish design

[halcyon abyss]

This is so precious.

[half zealot]

that is true!!! I. Don’t have any of the map shrines unlocked

[halcyon abyss]

Oh man. That would be a fun mechanic to test out. Befriending Manta's to allow you to take them for a spin

[untold notch]

c that reminds me we need to do the flight quests sometime

[atomic lava]

😭 oh…! dang
maybe you could look up images !

[keen shore]

Maybe if you asked tlp he could show you around 😊

[untold notch]

The Little Menace is a blight upon the world of sky

[half zealot]

I am Not interacting with the little French boy.

[half zealot]

We do!!!!!

[pastel brook]

🧠

[half zealot]

Someone is going to read this and think I genuinely don’t like The Little Prince HELDPDJHAHAHA

[tepid veldt]

i hate the flight quests only because when it was green and ugly i would come in only to be disappointed

[random token]

Naw!

[pastel brook]

Don't count on it..

[rigid mural]

Really ? I think he could show you a whale or two

[earnest briar]

You don't like French? Oui oui? 🇫🇷 🥖

[untold notch]

the white boy is hiding the whales from c

[keen shore]

C is mad cause he can fly to more places than they can

[untold notch]

c should harness the power of birds like he does

[rigid mural]

thats just french people tbh

[random token]

So I have a question. Are the holidays relating to irl holidays canon in sky?

[jovial monolith]

we know that the sky people lived in a kingdom so maybe? But not likely they likely did have holidays but they wouldn’t look like ours

How where the krill made ive seen lots of people say different things regarding them
1: the krill where made from mutated mantas when the workers in the vault needed more light from manta for power diamonds and because the bigger the manta the more power diamonds you could make they started mutating mantas and some started turning into krill

2. Krill are machines made by the king during the war some say this because the way the krill move is very mechanical

[untold notch]

I remember talking with some friends about which holidays are likely ancestor made vs skykid/other made but I don't remember the list :(

[random token]

If you ever find it, ping me!

[distant narwhal]

I love hearing krills lore ans theories. Cute little flying things.

[half shadow]

the first theory is how I imagine the leviathan in the abyss was made pretty much!

[jovial monolith]

I saw a theory that said that because krill used to be manta and manta pick up sky kids so when they becomes krill they still try to pick them up it was so cute

[random token]

[pastel brook]

The flowers in sky look like they're made of light, but what about the grass and trees?!

[summer tulip]

Tbh alot of the trees look dead unfortunately ;-;

[pastel brook]

thats deep fam

[distant narwhal]

Oh no it's adorable and sad at the same time, from now on I'll let krill pick me up

[rigid mural]

"This spirit greatly appreciates your visit."
so relives count as visiting them ? Awww

[keen shore]

YES THEY DO

[random token]

Did that started happening recently or have I never noticed

[keen shore]

It’s for days of fortune i believe! I hope it sticks around after, though

[keen shore]

At the risk of being teased in return, I have to say that I am completely unsurprised at the spirit you beelined towards

[untold notch]

I've heard of stones in glass houses but this is more of a boulder /aff

[keen shore]

I would defend myself by saying they’re the last spirit I relived but considering every prophet was first that does not stop the boulder from causing much wreckage

[untold notch]

its like making a snowball with ice in the middle

[keen shore]

Try looking under the couch cushions, I think we lost it 😔

[tepid veldt]

maybe the real lore was the friends we made along the way

[pastel brook]

A shadow is just a friend you haven't met yet

[rigid mural]

its the autusm 👍

[keen shore]

i cannot relate, I am attached to some spirits for completely normal reasons

[rigid mural]

God it makes me think of something that made me emotional as a moth, the spirits are moving on from their old life and passing on the last remnants of it along with their wisdom to skykids,,,

[untold notch]

quite the cold ping

[white junco]

oh my god, the dozens of times i've visited candlemaker is paying off

[sterile orchid]

are you supposed to bump that sometimes or did i miss something that was deleted

[random token]

where did you get that message

[sterile orchid]

it's one of the pinned messages

[untold notch]

its a two year old message with ping on

[random token]

Ye I found out it was pinned after lol

If Wyatt had ping replies turned on imagine

[keen shore]

They did

[sterile orchid]

how do you guys know the ping is on

[random token]

Wyatt noooo

[keen shore]

@ next to the name of the person they’re replying to. So here it has @ Miri but if they weren’t pinged it wouldn’t have the @

[sterile orchid]

this is very useful information to know, that i did not know beforehand, thank you

[keen shore]

No problem!

[untold notch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/632004389137154048/1054098028425904229/10976D5E-032F-4401-9B09-4BBEDBD53669.gif relevant - forgot gifs dont embed here