lore-discussion-spoilers

[frigid tinsel]

on purpose

[sharp lichen]

cannoneer has that covered

[gleaming glacier]

Cannoneer and Crab Whisperer got banned from Olive Garden together

[rigid mural]

More than one person can commit a felony at once

[fierce urchin]

Crab whisperer is that one aunt or uncle that secrety give u money

[sharp lichen]

they don't know

[frigid tinsel]

theres' a reason Doublefive is scared of them

[gleaming glacier]

Everyone fears Crab Whisperer

[fierce urchin]

Except me

[sharp lichen]

did it have to do with the forbidden wedding

@fierce urchin I thought the exact same thing, many months ago. I was foolish.

[white junco]

crab whisperer: just because i'm nonbinary doesn't mean i'm gender neutral, i'm actually gender evil

[gleaming glacier]

I want to be gender evil

[rigid mural]

Crab Whisperer evil shadow skull flag

[fierce urchin]

Gender evil sounds cool

[white junco]

CW flag (evil shadow skull aromantic)

[fierce urchin]

Give me the gender evil

[gleaming glacier]

[fierce urchin]

we all chase him floating standing G I V E M E T H E G E N D E R

[gleaming glacier]

Hand over the general evil tgc we need it Crab Whisperer cannot have it all

[keen shore]

so true and extremely appreciated

[gleaming glacier]

Tell me more about this forbidden wedding

[sharp lichen]

@gleaming glacier Revel in its glory.

[gleaming glacier]

Ahh so that’s how everyone got banned from Olive Garden
I see

[frigid tinsel]

worth it

[keen shore]

YES

[white junco]

YES

[frigid tinsel]

this is awesome

[gleaming glacier]

LOOK AT EM

[graceful oasis]

Beautiful

[rigid iron]

omg I didn't even realize we have a sky pride emoji now

[gleaming glacier]

Pride crab :0

[rocky granite]

Unrelated random thought i just had
If the stuff in abyss made mantas into the darkstone stuff and if thats what the eye if eden is since its kinda the same shape what if its not powered by mantas but its powered by megabird instead and thats why its huge

[graceful oasis]

It honestly just like a builded Dark Stone, because at the center of it is a smaller dark stone…

[frigid tinsel]

power diamond production seems to require a darkstone base that's refined by adding light from light creatures into it. so really the Eden diamond started as one huge chunk of darkstone and a heckton of light. and darkstone is mined

[rocky granite]

Yea but i was just thinking about how hard it would be to gather that kind of quantity of creatures like there was a bunch in abyss but there wasnt any darkness from it
I couldn't really think of another way to get that much light than megabird

[white junco]

i think turning the megabird into a power diamond would have left the realms in a worse state than they are currently. also it's probably impossible

[frigid tinsel]

imagine turning your god into a giant diamond, off course you'd get sniped

[graceful oasis]

And basically they decided to just make a really big Diamond from many animals, and other light things… and may have failed in some process of adding to it?

[floral grove]

Your access to Orbit has been revoked

[wheat cypress]

If megabird is being used to power this thing, and if megabird is like a collective hivemind thing, then by waking up the kingdom and bringing our ancestors back to the stars, aren't we indirectly helping megabird gain enough light and strength to escape ?

[rocky granite]

I feel like it could kind of explain shattering too if megabird was getting stronger from ascending spirits to orbit and maybe trying to break out?
It could explain why we never see megabird for sure either

[wheat cypress]

Hmmmm ye...... I've also got a headcanon that orbit is megabird.... especially since it kind looks like a circle from the outside and has so many stars and creatures coming from within it and into it..... fits the description for me

[floral grove]

Not only that, but we pass through Orbit before we get reborn, kinda like that concept art showing dead Light creatures passing through Megabird before being reborn

[wheat cypress]

OH MY GOSH THATS IT...... WE WERE EXPERIENCING THAT CONCEPT ART AND WE DIDNT KNOW IT???? WE'RE THE SOULS THAT GET PICKED UP AND RESTORED IN THE CICLE OF LIGHT AAHAHHHHHHHHHHH happiness..... oh my gosh I'm so happy

That's it I'm turning consider me an avid megabird follower now .........

[rigid mural]

Looking at you in river of light theory
Really liking that way of illustrating the flow of light and memories to megabird.

[fierce urchin]

Im gonnna call megaburd mommabird

[graceful oasis]

Megabird is Orbit but the Diamond connects to the Void?

[white junco]

hm, the void and orbit are very similar...

[floral grove]

It's interesting how the Void we go to when we die is different to the Void we go to when we visit the Seasonal "Spirits"

[wheat cypress]

Opposite voids for opposite rulers? Megabird for orbit and possibly the king for the void?

[floral grove]

The Void for this Season has lots of fog and there are a ring of rocks up above while the death void has none of those

[white junco]

they both "sing" the same song when you walk though

[graceful oasis]

The ground reflects.

[white junco]

sound on

i believe orbit does this as well

[graceful oasis]

Time to check Eden spoilers.

[floral grove]

tfw the ground can sing better than me

[white junco]

need 2 find someone who can tell what key this is

[floral grove]

D major probably?

I tried playing the melody on Sky Music and it matched really well with D major

[white junco]

damn

[vale juniper]

good afternoon🇨🇳

[floral grove]

TGC was definitely not lying when they said sound is more than half of the experience

[white junco]

they definitely weren't, i need to stop listening to music while playing so much like i'm doing right now

[floral grove]

The ground in the Void shares the same key as Vault. The void is most likely not a physical place, but a sort of a manifestation of our subconscious. There is also the theory that the Vault we go into isn't real and that the actual Vault is the room we end up in after the Vault Elder cutscene. What if they share the same musical key because both areas do not physically exist, supporting the theory that Vault is all an illusion?

[gleaming glacier]

[wheat cypress]

Agree agree agree... I had also thought that the void was not a physical place, but maybe mental

[white junco]

man that is a good connection. man oh man

[untold notch]

idk how people are gonna go to the void once the season ends

[white junco]

seasonal area might not stay accessible, yea it's got those cool statues but for all intents and purposes it works the same as a regular season's constellation

[sharp lichen]

I'd imagine it'd be in the Eden social area, or somewhere within Eden?

[frigid tinsel]

wrong, D major is in Valley Elder temple, Prairie butterfly fields, and Wasteland battlefield

[hoary ingot]

What void?

[frigid tinsel]

they mean the Frozen Memories and the area the Void of Shattering takes you to

[tough coral]

Heyyyy question does the skykid in the office have a name because a character collector bot in my server claims they are named paul

Is This Correct. Since when did they have a name

[floral grove]

And why are they in Mudae

[tough coral]

eh mudae is just a general purpose character collector that uses Anime Girl words

[floral grove]

Also sniv, are you Dutch by chance

[tough coral]

no, why do you ask?

[floral grove]

Ah, I used to have a Dutch friend called snivy and I used to play an mmo game with them years ago but they suddenly disappeared

[tough coral]

ah, alright!

[cedar sun]

Wait they had a name..

[untold notch]

idk i just call them office friend

[floral grove]

Aw man

[scenic siren]

I think this season gives us view of what the spirits saw before dying (Eden eruption)
Imagine what grandma saw that day, in the tree house alone, waiting for family members to come to the meal, but all died before they could have a meal together

If spirit memory is the moment before they die, I think all the spirits that has memory of them doing casual daily thing died suddenly, not knowing what happened

[hushed steeple]

How dare you tug at my heartstrings that way

[long fjord]

Lemme go and cry in the corner

[steep prawn]

sorry for the ping but i noticed your oc here looks like your sky kid and i was wondering if i could ask what’s your inspiration for the outfit you have if its okay for you to say

[eternal totem]

That’s Enchantment guide, I have my own way of drawing them (they look bland in game)
Honestly I mostly reference concept art & the animation project with a sprinkle of my culture

[steep prawn]

i see i see thank you for this because i wanted to do what you did with yours but i have no idea how to begin with hahaha but not as the enchantment guide but flight guide or something yeah thank you again for this!

[eternal totem]

Flight takes (some) inspiration from Inuit culture, that would be a starting point of study

[hoary ingot]

Were all the ancestors killed initially by the Eden blast? Or did they die over time?

[waxen quest]

Common theory is most of them were killed by the blast, remaining ones died due to darkness over time

[rigid mural]

That's interesting cos I saw some native american folks under flight announcement tweets go "Oh hey the chimesmith hairstyle and the feathers in everyone's hair remind me of my culture ! Handle with care."

[rigid mural]

Abyss spirits are confirmed to be scavengers, Assembly spirits seem to not be under adult supervision at all, and Enchantment spirits likely died due to lack of ressources instead of a quick death. It's possible some ancestors survived the initial disaster but slowly died out soon after as well.

[eternal totem]

Sorry but I don’t understand the tone of your post

[rigid mural]

Putting an observation of mine on the table because I thought it was interesting.

[eternal totem]

Oh, it might be a mixture of both since Enchantment isn’t exactly inspired by one culture either

[rigid mural]

Yeah just realized I come across as passive-aggressively correcting you when I genuinely thought our observations being different was interesting, my apologies 😅

[rigid mural]

I haven't studied native culture from the new world enough to confidently say it looks like it, didn't really look for one when I first saw promo art. I will trust someone that's part of one of these cultures when they say so for now, because it's really hard to find traditional clothing without putting a specific tribe name, pinterest boards my abbhored.

[frigid tinsel]

Did the devs ever say the Flight clothing was inspired by a specific culture, as they took inspiration from Nordic culture for the Abyss scavengers?

[rigid mural]

Nope.

[eternal totem]

I’m not too sure about Flight, I should’ve made it clear that it’s not truly exact, although a native dev did confirm the Navigator goggles are inspired by Inuit (I think? I’m not sure if I’m remembering right)

[frigid tinsel]

Navigator’s goggles resemble more like pilot goggles than anything else

[rigid mural]

Slit googles can also be found in siberian tribes ! I know the flight outfits are meant to look warm, I recall they said so when they showed concept art.

[rigid mural]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_goggles

[eternal totem]

Yeah, those aren’t pilot goggles

[frigid tinsel]

I was actually looking it up and TIL Inuit and Yupik peoples had snow googles

[rigid mural]

These are to prevent snow blindness, but if you've ever been in a plane by day, you will know clouds can make your eyes sore when the sun is overhead !

[frigid tinsel]

I’ve never taken a closer look at Navigator’s goggles and yea that they closely resemble these snow goggles. You can see a slits

[rigid mural]

Looking for something else but found this in my screenshots folder, on the topic of Flight.

[eternal totem]

I remember, but I haven’t given it much thought since

[rigid mural]

Forest marks the beginning of darkstone usage, could be that the flight crew saw the disaster coming and went out of their way to help light creatures and open passages through the kingdom.

Someone made a good point it could be about leaving childhood (prairie) to enter teenagehood (forest) with the expectations that come with it (4th quest rocks come from the wasteland, midlife).

The manta that destroys rock also looks like a Sanctuary Island quadwing too

[frigid tinsel]

I remember someone suggesting that the Wind Paths entrance is placed just before Forest to provide light creatures a safe passage that circumnavigated Forest, where they could’ve gotten trapped and used to produce darkstone.

[rigid mural]

OH I REALLY LIKE THIS

[keen shore]

that’s hilarious because I’m like 50% sure you are the one who suggested it vela

[rigid mural]

My braincell doesn't bounce around my skull enough for that.

[frigid tinsel]

Press x to doubt

I mean you’ve passed some big brain thoughts here before

[keen shore]

COMPKETELY untrue

[rugged jackal]

Henlo there lorechat
Whatcha talkin about

[uncut pond]

Flight

[gleaming glacier]

Things that are gonna make me cry

[waxen quest]

Could one skid drain others light

[gleaming glacier]

I wouldn’t think so since they’re all made of light at their cores

[frigid tinsel]

skykids share light mutually. even when one skid has less light than the other, the light one takes never depletes each other. perhaps cos they have a flame as a constant source of light within them

[green latch]

lore I have a question is it generally believed that krills are animals or machine constructs?

[rigid mural]

Likely animals imo

[green latch]

ah, thank you! just curious, I thought the noise they make when they get close is kind of machine-y so it got me wondering

[rigid mural]

They sound like the screams of damned souls ngl

[wheat cypress]

OK question..... why do the spirits travel??? And then they just stand there.... for days

[azure mural]

Maybe they are just souls who are corrupt 🤷‍♀️

[hushed steeple]

Maby they have unfinished Business in this world

[frigid tinsel]

you mean travelling spirits? I imagine they chill around Homespace and sometimes venture into the realms when they come visit the skykids in-universe. in game they prob just stand there cos game mechanics

[rigid mural]

Home isn't canon in my mental picture of Sky, so I imagine that the TS system works like the pre-assembly era where the spirit reappears in their realm and that's where skykids find them to buy their cosmetics. Imagining Double-Five hanging out on top of that tower, looking at Eden erupt with the skykids...

[eternal totem]

A dumb idea I had awhile ago, you know how spirits offer hugs from miles away after you already finished the sapling quest? It’s probably just an oversight but it would be funny if some spirits don’t understand we can’t be at multiple places at once

“Too slow, no hug”

[rigid mural]

crab whisperer teleports behind you

[eternal totem]

Nothing personel, kid

[earnest briar]

Have you guys ever noticed how similar the Child of Light corona and the Eden corona are? What if it's because Eden used to be a holy place and was connected directly to the Light?

[frigid tinsel]

they're both sundogs aka parhelia. the lights of the Ancient Light and Ancient Darkness have them too

[earnest briar]

Maybe it's because Eden has a high concentration of Darkness, and things with a strong enough connection to either the Light or the Dark has a parhelia.

[frigid tinsel]

I mean the Ancient Light and Ancient Darkness in the season space

[earnest briar]

that's what I mean. They're ancient, so their Light and Darkness is very concentrated, hence the parhelia.

[rigid mural]

I think it's funny how they got lily pads

[earnest briar]

I would love lily pads in-game tbh

Maybe next year's Days of Bloom could be lotus/lily themed!

[rigid mural]

that would be so cool ! lilypad umbrella,,,

[waxen quest]

IS THAT COLDSTEEL REFERENCE?

[keen shore]

yeah I can see the lightseekers especially not realizing this

[gleaming glacier]

Performance Guide can obviously be multiple places at once or it’s just Rhythm being a classic twin

[keen shore]

I wholeheartedly believe in the second theory. I feel like performance guide would 100% interact with all their students more, plus it’s funny

[gleaming glacier]

We found Rhythm everyone, they’re one of the two Performances /j

[frigid tinsel]

I bet Rhythm guide and Performance guide have small characteristics they exaggerate when they wanna be distinct, like maybe one has a slight accent, but when they want to screw with people they mask those characteristics. Some of the troupe members or theater students think they figured out those distinctions and claim one is the other, even when they’re not pretending

[gleaming glacier]

Rhythm and Performance pretending to be each other is like my favorite thing

[keen shore]

I also like to imagine that actual performance guide has no idea what’s happening in harmony hall, and thinks their twin sibling is still chilling in orbit. Stagehand knows, the other performance spirits are suspicious but have been wrong so many times that they are questioning it

[gleaming glacier]

Performance get slightly suspicious when Skykids start making comments about them teleporting

[keen shore]

YEAH, you can actually notice some of these differences visually (although idk about personality of speech ones). Notably, all of them are stuff that’s easy for them to change on a whim… like for example, performance guide has messier hair and a different looking hair tie holding it back

[gleaming glacier]

Performance is fluffier

[languid island]

Is there / would someone care to write a description about what is happening here? Is the king in the highest palace, doing WHAT

[gleaming glacier]

It’s thought the orb is one of the lights from Enchantment, or just a light itself

[keen shore]

my best explanation ideas is that it’s a metaphor for eating the apple in the garden of Eden

[gleaming glacier]

Ooo I’ve never made those connects before

[frigid tinsel]

I had talked about the biblical allusions with Eden the other day: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[languid island]

But here it is as if the God (=king of heaven) did the original sin himself? Or is the void diamond the God?

[frigid tinsel]

I don’t think there’s an Abrahamic God equivalent in Sky

[gleaming glacier]

Wouldn’t Megabird be God?

[wheat cypress]

I'd say that the Light would be the god in this context, i like to think that the King mural is a symbolization of his greed for power, the circle representing the purest form of light

[frigid tinsel]

Yes but I think Megabird is more of a hands-off god than capital-G God. Also less controlling

[wheat cypress]

Agreed

[gleaming glacier]

Ah that makes sense

[frigid tinsel]

Both Megabird and God send down creations to the world to do a certain task. Whereas God sends down prophets/angels/His son to follow His direct demands the whole time they’re there and punishes them if they deviate, Megabird sent the skykids and perhaps the Elders and king in hopes they would follow Their direction. Yes, Megabird has a sort of divine plan — for skykids to save ancestor spirits — but skykids are more lackadaisical about that. They can enjoy themselves, have fun, not even go to Eden to ascend. They’re not being forced. The Elders and king enabled darkness to some capacity, the opposite of light. So I don’t think Megabird has the sort of control or even expects stringent obedience

[languid island]

No, but 'the Source' type of God, and if the King is creator, it can be even a male God not unlike the Abrahamic one

[wheat cypress]

The sending of the sky kids was more for the benefit of the Ancestor spirits rather than for megabirds benefit, making me think megabird as more of a parental type of god rather than a biblical type

[frigid tinsel]

I don’t think the king is the creator. I follow the theory that the king was Chosen One who completed the Trials and, if Chosen One is the skid in Stargazer’s spirit memories, they were a fallen star. They were sent by Megabird.

Also there’s no gender in Sky. “King” may be a masculine title but non-binary people can take any moniker regardless of gender coding

[gleaming glacier]

Megabird doesn’t seem like a nice creator to me since they send the skykids down to die, and of course the story of the Chosen One

Kids obviously don’t have to, but that seems to be what’s expected of their journey, going up to Eden and dying in a vain attempt to stop the storm

[wheat cypress]

Megabird is trying to take care of us and give us more light is what I mean, rather than forcing us to do anything

[languid island]

Sure, but as Little Prince has proven, there are exceptions to this in the world of Sky, since LP is being referred to with the pronoun he

[gleaming glacier]

Spirits and elders don’t seem to have defined gender

Little Prince isn’t technically a being of Sky’s kingdom

[frigid tinsel]

well the Little Prince isn't a Sky character since he came from a collab. and, yea, the Little Prince isn't a member of the Sky kingdom – he's an alien.

[gleaming glacier]

He has his own cute little planet

[languid island]

That makes sense

[uncut pond]

They actually do, agender if I'm not mistaken and I'm remembering correctly

[frigid tinsel]

agender is the lack of gender. it's an identity but not a gender if that makes sense. agender = genderless.
other agender folk may describe it differently but that's one way of interpreting.

[uncut pond]

True but I guess you could say the lack of a gender technically counts as a defined gender identity

[gleaming glacier]

If I remember correctly, spirit gender is also up to each player’s interpretation, however they choose to see them

[frigid tinsel]

while I'm not going to lash out on anyone who does gender the characters, the fact that the devs have said multiple times that they have made the Sky characters genderless means that they are canonically agender. "the lore is open to interpretation" doesn't sit right when used for nonbinary erasure

[gleaming glacier]

I don’t know if it’s really erasure if it’s just people having certain opinions - Undertale protags are canonically enby but Toby Fox has said he doesn’t care if we gender them

[frigid tinsel]

erasure is not accepting and effacing canon identities. it's not always overt. cisnormative standards cover up the existence of nonbinary people and pretends everyone falls into one or two genders. the dominant gender socialization people undergo insists there is a gender binary that is so hard to kick, so assuming and asserting that a nonbinary individual falls within it is erasure

[uncut pond]

I mean, gendering characters that are genderless is a form of erasure, it's one thing if you do it in like, a fanfic or something that's specifically meant to be separate from the main canon of the game, but even then enby folks get barely any rep and it's more or less a matter of respecting the existence of these identities

[torn eagle]

Thinking about it there was no directive from megabird that skids should die to save the kingdom of sky

I believe its more of a decision made by the skids themselves, giving up their light to save others on the way

I remember someone mentioned here that skids have some of the blame for not completing their mission/purpose by giving up their light to save others, making them weaker in the journey towards the the eden diamond

[rigid mural]

crying at the isle elder from the news, their beard looks even more like bird wings, love that geezer

[frigid tinsel]

they even detailed the cracks in Dawn’s mask

[rigid mural]

i want to give them a hug

[frigid tinsel]

me too

[uncut pond]

little creachr

[fierce urchin]

were immune to fire. (idk if this has beem said yet im sorry if it has)

[uncut pond]

I mean yeah fire literally is a source of light for sky kids lol

[frigid tinsel]

Skykids can literally sit in a fire to only benefits

[keen shore]

Thank you for this. It’s hard for me to word without getting emotional [as an agender person who is Very much affected by this sort of stuff] but I totally agree with what you said. It’s like… I can’t and won’t [bc there’s so many] lash out at people that gender spirits bc they often don’t realize that it has harmful effects… its just super depressing to realize just how many people are like Oh they’re supposed to be agender? Let me change that.

[pastel brook]

Maybe one day I can be a real Skykid!

[frigid tinsel]

Not the time, skybot

[sharp lichen]

it's never the time for skybot

[keen shore]

I also appreciate any support I can get with this bc almost every time I bring it up I get pushback of some kind

[sharp lichen]

Wait, really? I know there's quite some people who don't accept that Sky has no gender, but is it really the majority of the Sky playerbase? If so, that's concerning. At the very least, this chat is somewhat of a safe space for that

@worldly quest Welcome to lorechat!

[uncut pond]

Let's be real, at this point can one really be surprised? I thought most people in lorechat already had an idea of what the bigger community in general can be like sometimes

[frigid tinsel]

I wish TGC would be more explicit about the intentional genderlessness of Sky so blokes can check their cisnormativity but alas

[frigid tinsel]

The response to last year’s Days of Bloom around Rallying Thrillseeker being the event’s guide cos it implied them to be gay is a testament to how present this crap is.

[latent lark]

But what it i want my skid to have a gender

[sharp lichen]

Jeez i must have turned a blind eye to this somehow, since I haven't heard of it

normally i see DOR to be received positively

[uncut pond]

It's your own sky kid you're meant to project onto them, but spirits are a different story

[cold copper]

technically, your skid is your creation

[rigid mural]

Easy to think Sky is mostly queer, but it's because we hang out in lore chat which is neurodivergent when not queer.

As for the genderless spirits, some devs say it's so people interpret how they want, including the gender binary, I'm just annoyed some folks take the tired route of gendering their clothes instead. He/him Forester canon in french, deal with it.

[latent lark]

Yeah i thought the spirits were up for interpretation too

[cold copper]

spirits are technically genderless in canon aren't they? i'm not too caught up in lore so

[latent lark]

Something is canon for once?

[rigid mural]

spirits aren't concieved with a gender

[sharp lichen]

spirits are confirmed genderless in canon

[uncut pond]

I'm about 90% sure any positive reaction was mostly because they were giving away cool pants for free

[sharp lichen]

maybe in the deep, primordial well of like 2012 they were, but now

[latent lark]

Well they died with one right? (Or none)

[uncut pond]

Confirmed to not have gender

[rigid mural]

nah, you guys will take me seriously this time around.

[frigid tinsel]

Skykids don’t have gender either, but you can have your headcanons. Jts when people stomp of one of the few non-binary rep in any media that’s the problem. It’s the overt inability to accept genderlessness as valid and to respect it (“sky is open to interpretation,” “but we can give them gender since they don’t have one”) that’s the issue and a reflection of the widespread nbphobia in our world.

[worldly quest]

Thank you for welcoming me, and I got a warning for all, I got a theory about the season of shattering and the connection of the game like all seasons we been through did.

[sharp lichen]

All seasons? That's a really difficult task. Spill it!

(also this place is not for beta spoilers btw)

[keen shore]

a lot of the dev messages talking about gender are also hard to decipher because they seem to often treat them being genderless and up to interpretation as the same thing, which can be confusing. From what I can tell, though, they are confirmed genderless and any time they are gendered it is because of players’ preconceived notions about it, in some way, shape or form

[latent lark]

Ahhh i see i see

[rigid mural]

I have some strong opinions about Days of Rainbow I'd rather not get started on, but let's just say that it's subtle enough for folks to either not get where it comes from (pride) or straight up ignore it.

[keen shore]

yeah it’s super depressing. all but stealing the aesthetics of pride while refusing to visibly support the community it came from.

[uncut pond]

And also gendered because the localizes and translators are cowards (/hj) who refuse to use the existing constructed gender neutrals of most gendered languages

[latent lark]

To me the rainbow means something different but i understand what it means to others

[frigid tinsel]

Just because you ascribe or project a gender onto someone doesn’t mean that they identify that way. If they tell you their identity, you discard your preconceptions and respect that person as they are

[rigid mural]

Sounds to me like they want to stay on the edge to not get fire from either side of that argument imo

[rigid mural]

I am not playing this game tonight, Days of Rainbow is based off pride and despite the roots being buried so it's palatable to every demographic, you will respect it as such.

[keen shore]

It’s gotten to the point where there are so many foggy dev messages and canon confirmations about it that unless they announced it super publicly, like in news or something, it’s still equally hard to tell whether they mean genderless or up to interpretation no matter what is said

[latent lark]

And you will respect that everyone has different beliefs and that just bc they differ it doesn’t mean they don’t respect it.

[rigid mural]

What's your point ?

[uncut pond]

I heard they had to cut ties with some charities because they had NetEase breathing on their back but I'm not sure how true that is plus I'll be real that just sounds like needlessly blaming China for everything because many bigger companies get away with donating millions to LGBTQ+ charities without Chinese publishers saying a thing

[frigid tinsel]

The cowardice in wanting to stay “neutral” as to not upset the bigots with money only emboldens and maintains the transphobia that ravages marginalized folk.

[keen shore]

I would even go so far as to say that not acknowledging days of rainbows roots in pride is queerphobic on some level… I mean, it is a rainbow themed event that takes place towards the end of June. You cannot get much more obvious than that.

[frigid tinsel]

People can have different beliefs, but those beliefs can still be rooted in bigotry. Your opinion is just an opinion — it’s holds nothing to the fact that Days of Rainbow, a rainbow event in June, is based on queer pride

[rigid mural]

They cut ties with Amnesty because that charity was looking into horrors China was commiting and you bet NetEase wouldn't let that fly despite their servers not having Days of Rainbow back then. TGC knew it was gonna spark a scandal so they told the players in global after the event was over. And made promises of being transparent this year that they didn't uphold.

[uncut pond]

There are people who unironically believe Call of Duty isn't political, nothing will ever be obvious enough for Gamers to get it

[frigid tinsel]

“Political” can literally mean just having a person of color as a protagonist, it’s been stretched to censor art that dares to speak, as if the majority of art isn’t rooted in social issues even if it isn’t overt.

[latent lark]

For me as stated in the bible, is that it’s God’s promise that he’ll never flood the earth again. That is all. It was my church’s symbol for the longest. There’s nothing bigoted about that. Like i even said i know what it means to other and I wasn’t dissing it. I am being very respectful. I understand that what i said was an opinion so why am i being attacked for mine?

[sharp lichen]

“Open to interpretation” and “open to interpretations that harm/marginalize others” should not be interchangeable. Can you please understand this?

[hushed steeple]

Damn what has this chat came into I came to see about sky lore not politics guess I can't escape them even here 😔

[latent lark]

How does this promise hurt others????

[frigid tinsel]

God not flooding the earth is not relevant to this discussion. You cannot hide behind religion.

[uncut pond]

Tbf Sky does have quite a few main themes that are easily political

[latent lark]

…………..that is what the rainbow means to me. Bc he put a rainbow in the sky as a promise.

[frigid tinsel]

Okay but that’s not what the rainbow represents when it comes to queerness

[latent lark]

But that’s what it represents to me… and I understand that’s what it represents to others. Nothing wrong with that…..

[keen shore]

the issue here is that you are immediately equating talk about gender and days of rainbow with politics, which I will be honest, does not reflect well in the least

[latent lark]

I’m not being political 😭 y’all just attacked me

[floral grove]

Why are we mixing religious stories with a game that's about lighting candles up and avoiding flying shrimps

[latent lark]

Thank you….but then yet eden does refer to the garden of eden. But that is besides the point

[worldly quest]

(Heads up, it's some spoilers)

Here's my theory: could the season of shattering mean that the eye of eden had became more unstable as years go by. The eden is harder for moths and perhaps some skykids who has troubles going to eden. But why is the eden sending down the crystals into the kingdom of sky, is it to spread the territory of darkness?

The friendly shard we encounter shows us memories of the past to better understand the situation and learn of what happened to the elders or the greater disaster that will come forth. The shard could be warning us about eden's true plan or showing its true colors as we go there to end but begin our cycle again.

The elders might have known something about eden and sent out an announcement/alerts to sky kids so they can eliminate the threat of spreading the darkness. That shard that shows us memories is on the elder team to help stop the eden's corruption.

But there is two questions that stumped me: who is the friendly crystal's true identity? And why the void out of all places of the realms to do our quests

(Sorry for saying it, it's been in my head for a while and wondering why that Pacific shard is helping us while eden and the crystals are hostile to the skykids.)

(You are free to point some holes in the season theory )

[uncut pond]

Sky has... a lot of religious inspirations

[opaque lotus]

just a random lil theory- i’m new here- that the spirits are doing the things they were when they died when we relive them, so the little kid playing hide and seek with the older person in forest is bc the older one wanted to distract them from seeing the imminent death

[keen shore]

I wasn’t even talking to you, and I didn’t call the discussion political?

But yeah, I will say, although I have no issues with what the rainbow in general as a symbol means to you, that is fine — it definitely came off as though you were also saying that days of rainbow didn’t obviously have to do with pride. Which it pretty obviously does and ignoring that is a form of erasure. I don’t know if that’s what you meant, but in a discussion about days of rainbow it definitely came off as it.

[latent lark]

Oh no no no no no! That was not my intention at all! I just thought it was neat that two beliefs about the rainbow can coexist in this game bc of both the religious inspiration and the freedom it gives players

[rigid mural]

Say sike right now.

[frigid tinsel]

Objects can symbolize multiple meanings. But when a symbol is used in one explicit way, it is honestly daft to claim it represents a different thing, especially when the meaning in current usage has had a long history of being forcefully erased, especially when that meaning is held by those marginalized by said erasure in the current day, especially when that bigotry is carried out under the name of religion. It is, frankly, inappropriate to say to a group celebrating that a rainbow is used for queer pride means something utterly different than intended.

[latent lark]

I can’t. It’s in genesis and on my grandma’s church jacket.

[frigid tinsel]

And that’s not relevant nor appropriate to mention right now

[keen shore]

Oh, I get you now. I definitely have mixed feelings (at best) about the way dor can be interpreted as anything, especially because given the timing, symbols, and the way it was executed, it still seems almost inseparable from pride as a whole…. It honestly feels less like an event celebrating rainbows in general, and more a bad rip-off of a pride month celebration, which is the main issue I [and many others] have with it

[latent lark]

I’m not trying to erase pride culture, this was something that i grew up with and we used the rainbow explicitly too. 😭

[frigid tinsel]

And you have your Christian rainbow in your own time. Right now the queer folk have the rainbow. Let them have their space

[rigid mural]

You being a christian doesn't mean we have to share your faith. Christianity especially sets me on edge because it's still a religion against queer rights, so it's especially grating when you claim the gay rainbow.

[latent lark]

Thank you so much! Like i was just sharing how it’s important to me too just in a different way.

[floral grove]

From what I'm getting, Raisin is just stating what the rainbow symbolizes for them, not trying to shove their beliefs ontto other people's faces. Am I missing something here?

[latent lark]

Thank you.

@floral grove all i said was this “To me the rainbow means something different but i understand what it means to others ”

[frigid tinsel]

It’s like if you were having church service and someone walked in during the middle of it, turned the cross upside down, and demanded that the devil be celebrated right now, that’d be rude as hell, correct? Well that’s the sentiment you’re giving off.

[keen shore]

I think it was a misunderstanding to some extent, although I agree, as a queer person, it was kinda grating to see that mentioned. There’s a whole thing That I don’t know if you know about Raisinbran, with a bunch of homophobic Christians making a huge deal out of “stealing back the rainbow as god’s symbol” and that’s what I immediately thought of, especially in relation to the discussion we were having.

It’s also worth nothing that it was sent in a discussion where we were ranting about a symbol that was almost definitely in reference to the queer community being stripped from its origins and marketed as something separate, which made it worse

[latent lark]

I’m sorry you/y’all interpreted my intentions that way. I wasn’t going for that at all. And for the other stuff, i was just clarifying why I view the rainbow like i do. It was personal to me and me only

[floral grove]

Also I'm sorry if I butted in, I just found this argument interesting

[uncut pond]

Some people are so used to having to deal with awful jerks that they just naturally react badly towards anything that seems suspicious, and understandably so

Plus Raisin didn't make their intention very clear at the beginning

[latent lark]

Yes we agree. I wasn’t trying to take back the rainbow. It’s sad that you guys have to go into defense so quickly, but i just wanted to share in something wholesome

[keen shore]

Yeah. As someone who was raised Christian, I only ever heard of the rainbow symbol in relation to the religion as something people claimed out of spite to “take it back from the queer community”, not as something wholesome that they focused on a lot. It was my first thought as well, but I am glad to know this is not connected to that

[gleaming glacier]

Why is the lore chat being religious

[latent lark]

Huge misunderstanding

[gleaming glacier]

Is this about today’s meditation prompt

[latent lark]

And i sincerely thank you for understanding that

[uncut pond]

Sky has plenty of religious themes and messages why is this a surprise

[gleaming glacier]

Is the prompt “what do rainbows symbolize to you” legit upsetting some people oh my god that’s funny- its a rainbow

[keen shore]

This isn’t related to the message prompt, please try backreading to understand context before you start with that

[frigid tinsel]

Remember: if you don’t have nice things to say, say nothing at all

[floral grove]

Because they're not usually talked about?

[gleaming glacier]

I saw debate over a rainbow figured that’s what it was

[uncut pond]

...good point

[frigid tinsel]

Yes there are irl religious allusions in Sky but they are used as an artistic tool, not to herald that religion

[keen shore]

Yeah, I would definitely suggest trying to understand the context of a discussion before you made fun of it.

[uncut pond]

I'm aware but I just meant to say that it shouldn't be shocking that the chat is discussing about religion, especially with how easily conversations in general tend to derail

[rigid mural]

I don't wanna feed a fight in lore chat but I am upset because a convo about Days of Rainbow coming from gay pride (ktjn even mentions the dev behind it is queer, which I think is them) and having its roots covered to be marketable to people uncomfortable with our existence was derailed with christianity.

[keen shore]

I totally agree, we can continue the conversation from where we left off if you want. Although I’m not sure there’s much for me to say that I haven’t said already.

I think the phrase rainbow capitalism describes dor pretty well, which really sucks

[latent lark]

Going back, i do see that I responded in a wrong spot/time and I apologize for unintentionally setting you guys over the edge

[rigid mural]

I have to go anyway but it irritates me a lot when this chat is called drama queens for... calling out cisnormativity and rainbow capitalism ?

[frigid tinsel]

Especially when Christianity is the current force promoting reactionary queerphobia in our daily lives and society at large. Yes, not all Christians are bigots, but a lot of queer people have been hurt by Christians thus have religious trauma.

[keen shore]

It irritates me as well, but most of the time it seems like someone who’s trying to set us off intentionally and it says more about the person saying it than us imo.

[gleaming glacier]

Are we saying there shouldn’t be a Days of Rainbow? /genq

[frigid tinsel]

No, there should, but the inspiration should be more explicit and followed. We know Days of Feast is based on Christmas and Thanksgiving. We know Days of Fortune is based on the Chinese New Year. We know Days of Summer Lights is based on Diwali. Why is Days of Rainbow so coveted?

[latent lark]

I didn’t mean/trying to be one of those people who “unintentionally” sets ppl off intentionally.

[uncut pond]

The problem is that the way it's executed in Sky is really poor. They're literally trying to hide what DoR was inspired by and what it's about, and that's not good.
Edit: also the charity thing yes

[keen shore]

I am fine with there being a Days of Rainbow, I just wish that the queer community was both acknowledged and queer charities were donated to during it, instead of being ignored

[white junco]

DoR was in beta testing for far too long... it didn't need to happen on the last day of june

[gleaming glacier]

What do you all mean by poorly executed? /genq

It seemed like a fun little rainbow event to me besides the obvious shady charity thing

[uncut pond]

As I said, they're literally trying to hide and make people ignore that DoR is supposed to be about Queer Pride (which celebrates the Stonewall Riots which is another thing companies are trying to hide and make people ignore)

[gleaming glacier]

I don’t see an issue though, like how do you expect them to represent that in Sky???

[frigid tinsel]

Also Days of Rainbow was much more mediocre than the latest Days of Events. Really?

[fluid inlet]

There was zero effort put into it. Look at the previous events and the content made for them and now the anniversary event

[rigid mural]

Last year they said we'd know the charities they were gonna donate to before the event.

We still don't know the charities they donated to.

[fluid inlet]

Even after beta chat complained about the entire event being poorly made, nothing was done and it just ended up being delayed

[white junco]

they delayed the event to improve it bc there was so much criticism of how little went into it. the guides now do a couple emotes & then it was in testing for all of june

[limber trail]

I'm sorry to interrupt but
my opinion as a queer person is that I'd rather not have any pride related event instead of having what we had for days of rainbows this year.
I'd rather have no representation rather than bad representation

[floral grove]

Still somehow came out lackluster

[frigid tinsel]

On social media, they presented the colors of the rainbow with meanings different from what the rainbow actually represents for pride, which falls under queer erasure

[keen shore]

Donate to queer charities. Make it obvious that everyone in the game is genderless (as non-binary people fall under the queer umbrella). Putting actual effort into the event and how it works, which is blatantly obvious did not happen when compared to events like DOB. Even just acknowledging that the queer community exists and that they inspired the event would be a step up at this point.

The bar was on the ground and essentially tgc saw that and grabbed a shovel

[gleaming glacier]

All of the events are mediocre as of late, that’s just Tgc being themselves

If you don’t trust the charity don’t buy???

I’m a member of lgbt and the only thing that bugged me about Days of Rainbow was the cape being so expensive

[white junco]

technically in this year's announcement post, they didn't even say they would announce the charities

[rigid mural]

A promise is a promise, even a year old.

[keen shore]

I totally agree with you, but this post is making me laugh in a sad way because I don’t even know if days of rainbow counted as representation at this point. Like, the symbols are represented, but anything to do with its actual roots and the queer people that inspired it just got nuked so badly

[white junco]

days of bloom wasn't mediocre, that event slapped. days of fortune had a cute little dock with idle wax. days of feast had the office redecorated and grandma belonging in an igloo at the ice rink. days of mischief gave us a whole new event area. days of rainbow 2022 was on the same level as days of bloom 2021, and I don't mean that as a positive thing

[frigid tinsel]

Days of Sky, Nature, and Bloom had much more going on than Rainbow did. Days of Rainbow feels like they just plotted two shop NPCs and a double rain down, sprinkled some jellyfish, and called it a day. No thought or present passion.

[limber trail]

days of rainbow felt even worse than the others tbh.
look at days of nature. We had a new element (turtle), new events
idk if you're up with beta. If not, and If you don't mind spoilers, you could check about the next event
even days of mischief last year

all of these events were much better and well done compared to days of rainbows

[uncut pond]

There's a lot of issues you're failing to see and everyone is bringing them up, I suggest reading carefully and trying for a second to understand why everyone else is feeling the way they do

[keen shore]

all of the events have been mediocre as of late

Days of bloom and days of feast right there. Also as a longtime player, this year’s events are much more complex and developed than the ones from previous years … excepting days of rainbow of course

[gleaming glacier]

Look we all know tgc does not seem to care about their players, look at their responses to feedback

[white junco]

ok and? we still hold them accountable

[uncut pond]

Ok but that doesn't make it any less true that DoR sucked

[gleaming glacier]

I’m just saying, don’t hold them to any expectations because they will fail them

[rigid mural]

Days of Bloom 2022 is everything I wanted, I am a Days of Bloom 2022 enjoyer, unfollow me if you think Days of Bloom this year was mediocre.

I am angry because I know TGC can meet and even surpass my expectations, I know they can do better.

[gleaming glacier]

Also yall, I liked days of rainbow, that’s my opinion. I’m allowed to think that- you guys can hate it all you want, but I liked it

[uncut pond]

That's. That's literally contributing to the problem.

If you just don't have any expectations they'll continue to lower the bar, they're lowering the bar literally because they'll know most people won't complain enough

I know because I've been a Sonic fan for years and trust me you DON'T want to know how low companies can go with their quality, I don't want that to happen to Sky too

[cold copper]

always complain about something. that's why sky has a feedback channel to know about ur expectations if u don't like how it was

they want to hear ur complaints pretty much as long as it's not outrageous (gosh slowmode is so slow 😭 )

[uncut pond]

Pro tip: edit your messages to bypass slowmo

[frigid tinsel]

They just don’t want spam, which is valid cos it can drown out genuine criticism. So make sure your message is well-worded

[white junco]

this fr, it's well worth it to convey exactly what you have issues with and why. tgc likes specific feedback, especially during beta testing

[frigid tinsel]

The lot of us lurking in lorechat are queer and sometimes bigotry wants to throw hands so we fight back. That’s different than contacting devs and the company

[sly lake]

Don't forget letting them know about things that were done right as well. It's good to have a balance, so that way things that are loved don't get replaced because they only received negative feedback, not as much positive.

[rigid mural]

Sandwich method so true.

[bronze arch]

Y’all are mad that there wasn’t enough queer representation during the Days of Rainbow 2022 but may I remind you all that there’s an underlying issue in the gaming industry regarding LGBTQ+ representation as a whole? It dates back to the Nintendo GameCube (and possibly further). Shall I go into more detail?

[keen shore]

And? We can be mad at both, yknow?

[rigid mural]

And? TGC wants to surpass other videogames

[sly lake]

I think the topic here wasn't disregarding the issue as a whole, but this is a Sky server so the topic is naturally about Sky and it's gameplay.

[keen shore]

Not to mention that this is a sky server so ofc we’re talking about this game. Plus the whole ‘it’s a game so it’s expected that it doesn’t handle queer rep well’ is one of the worst excuses my eyes have ever been blessed with seeing, respectfully

[frigid tinsel]

Especially when other games handle queer rep so much better

[white junco]

idk mate i think if little big planet and spider-man ps4 can recognize queer people better than tgc, the company with several openly queer devs, then that's not good and it deserves to be pointed out

[rigid mural]

Queer is still censored in Sky.

[bronze arch]

That’s not what I was saying.

[white junco]

gayness is also censored in sky

[frigid tinsel]

It depends on how you phrase it

[limber trail]

even nintendo made a statement lately saying they recognize same sex couple for their employees, right ?
come on if even nintendo can do it

[keen shore]

Are you sure?.. because it sure sounded like it was a rebuttal to us being “mad”

[frigid tinsel]

Which admittedly is not good either

[cold copper]

we love when censorship censors queer for sure! 🤩

[tall mountain]

Yo, uh, just came into chat — is everything good over here?

[white junco]

yep! specifically it was nintendo japan saying that they recognize same sex couples and give them the same benefits as straight couples, even though japan legally does not recognize gay marriage as a legitimate form of marriage

[tepid veldt]

im not sure it is…you might wanna backtrack

[uncut pond]

No 💀

[frigid tinsel]

We’re getting better but it’s been... a time

[keen shore]

Anyway, as a general thing, I am so so tired of trying to talk abt queer stuff like this and someone consistently missing the point by a mile and changing the discussion until it’s unrecognizable, just gonna say

[bronze arch]

I think the U.S. has a weird thing with LGBTQ+ relationships and censorship, because mentally ill people and… familial are okay past the censors but not healthy gay couples?

And since thatgamecompany is based in America, it has to follow these rules, which creates… issues like the Days of Rainbow.

[frigid tinsel]

No, it doesn’t. A lot of Americans and American companies are not queerphobic. Why is TGC appealing to bigots?

[graceful oasis]

Scroll up, somehow a conversation went from spirits having no specific gender to just a representative debate of queer stuff, And other stuff…

[uncut pond]

When it comes to games I don't think there's any censorship at all, haven't you seem what the Steam Store looks like?

[keen shore]

As an American I will be honest, I have never heard of it. Although companies trying to use it as an excuse for queer erasure would not be surprising.

[white junco]

as an american I can safely say i've played many games here in the US with openly queer characters

[uncut pond]

I know that censorship in stuff like cartoons and TV shows can be tricky but in videogames there's literally almost no restrictions, even for... Some questionable stuff (talking about stuff in general here not just queer stuff)

[cold copper]

in the world of film, you can find some.. odd things, out there!

[frigid tinsel]

Censoring queerness is bigotry and should be fought against. Plus there’s nothing in US rule books that says queerness should be censored.

[hushed steeple]

What’s going on here?

[graceful oasis]

The only thing I can say is scroll… it’s a lot….

[uncut pond]

Gay. I'll not elaborate further

[limber trail]

angry gays

[hushed steeple]

Ah, I’m a bit lazy-

[cold copper]

things that.. for sure don't fit the channel name :)

[frigid tinsel]

We’re being queer. Don’t like it, move on

[opaque lotus]

some queer discourse about representation n stuff like that. also we’re being gay

[cold copper]

gay pride ✨

[keen shore]

Just general frustration at how much queer people were ignored and brushed over, originally for during DoR but now for the game in general [and to an extent, on a wider scale]

No arguments atm, trying my best to be respectful while also just adequately expressing my frustration. There were some misunderstandings a bit ago but they are mostly gone now

[limber trail]

me when I'm in a gay competition and my opponent is sky lore discussion spoilers users :

[frigid tinsel]

Solidarity, we shouldn’t be competing. We’re all in this together

[keen shore]

pack animal mentality

[opaque lotus]

*high school musical soundtrack begins to play *

[white junco]

join the herd, be gay do crime

[cold copper]

be gay do crime be a material girl!

[bronze arch]

MATRIAL GWORL 💅

[frigid tinsel]

I’m not a girl but whatever I get the sentiment

[cold copper]

MATERIAL GURLLLL (or alien 👀)

[opaque lotus]

be a material.. human

this just sounds like an alien trying to convince people of their humanity 😭

[hushed steeple]

Ah, well. About Days of Rainbow, I think TGC did a good job. They allowed players to celebrate pride while not forcing it onto religious parties. I’m by no means “invalidating” any party’s feelings, but I do have respect for TGC and I can understand how hard it is to make sure their player base as a whole is happy, and that nobody feels left out. That’s a pretty tough spot to be in and requires lots of decisions.

[tepid veldt]

i like to be material

[cold copper]

Become the Material

[keen shore]

I 100% think pride should be forced onto religious parties, like this post if you agree. I mean, considering it’s just a celebration of people, if they weren’t homophobic they wouldn’t care

[half zealot]

We are in this together. But that also means that we should allow those frustrated with the current lack of and censoring of representation a space to express this, without pushing it aside.

[frigid tinsel]

You should not appease bigots. Staying “neutral” is oppression.

[white junco]

"not forcing queerness onto religious parties" is currently stripping away lgbtq+ rights in america

[keen shore]

YEP. And also, that’s like saying I’m forcing my existence onto others… literally just by existing & being acknowledged

[frigid tinsel]

Bigots will scream religious freedom as they prevent queer people from being free of religion

[rigid mural]

Christians are forcing Chrismas and Easter on us, I think they'd deserve that /hj

[keen shore]

I think this channel is the place to do it actually

[uncut pond]

Hot take but this should apply outside America as well, every time people use the "it's a different culture" to defend bigotry it just gets more annoying

I say this as a Latino, I've seen both media influencers of my own country and American politicians use this argument so much but it's really dumb

[hushed steeple]

If we’re talking about IG events, aka how people feel about DoR and representation, I believe it’s fine.

[frigid tinsel]

Very inappropriate to walk into a discussion and tell everyone to shut up, don’t you think?

[rigid mural]

It's technically a discussion

[tepid veldt]

alright yeah that was kind of an idiot move carry on

[opaque lotus]

it doesn’t matter where it’s discussed imo- this is important

[frigid tinsel]

It’s not off topic when everyone in Sky is canonically queer

[uncut pond]

The discussion has to be had and lorechat just so happens to be the best place to do it

[rigid mural]

We're talking about Sky and TGC not blatantly supporting us despite using our symbols.

[frigid tinsel]

This discussion could not happen with respect in any other channel, I swear

[keen shore]

I have a question, are you queer? If you are not, that’s fine, but that also means that dor is not really your thing to approve of.

[frigid tinsel]

One time the gender discussion happened in genchat and I got angry DMs

[white junco]

one time we had a neopronouns discussion in genchat and two transphobes managed to shut the entire conversation down

[rigid mural]

Lorechat still has a queer/neurodivergent majority and I will fight tooth and nail for it to stay a space bigots won't touch more than once.

[hushed steeple]

For the people replying to me, I apologize for being slow. I’m trying my best here to be non-biased so I have to be careful choosing my words. Hold on a moment

[keen shore]

It’s barely happening with respect now OAJDODJF

I am trying to keep it together and not be aggressive, though. It is working, it’s just hard to formulate my thoughts on this conversation topic WITHOUT being aggressive or pessimistic to some degree

[fair knot]

Ty

[rigid mural]

Litterally every other chat will either be hostile or hurry to sweep things under the rug, this is why we discuss that stuff here.

[graceful oasis]

So ummm what if you don’t know what you are technically?

[frigid tinsel]

Yea but here you won’t get 70 angry pings

[keen shore]

Oh god yeah, I stopped going into genchat for ts hints entirely because people kept making fun of me when I asked abt the fursona ones.

[frigid tinsel]

Questioning folk are welcomed. Maybe someday you’ll figure yourself out. Maybe someday you won’t but you’ll find comfort in ambiguity. It’s all fine — just be you for you

[wheat cypress]

To lighten the topic a bit, I'd just like to say that I greatly enjoyed dor this year as someone non-religious within a religious family, and was able to freely share my dor experiences with them despite our differences 💜💜 I definitely give tgc big thanks for letting that happen

[opaque lotus]

queer people exist and we aren’t going away no matter how hard people try to push us under the rug

[cold copper]

queer is in nature!! you cant hide us!!

[thick gulch]

Hello lorechat I just opened it. ||I am queer||. I’m gonna read the conversation-
Agreed person below my message

[bronze arch]

Can we please change the topic?

[keen shore]

Why?

[rigid mural]

This is Pepo, they bite the status quo.

[raw crypt]

I’m trying to word things but all I can really think is that I think it’s important for people to express their frustrations with the game in a public space to hear other’s opinions and discuss, without it being seen as a an awful ‘discouse’ and getting talked about in other chats, i dunno

[frigid tinsel]

Reminder that everyone in Sky is canonically agender aka non-binary
(credit to Slink)

[tepid veldt]

this post made me happy inside. may i save this?
also i am very sorry to what i was saying earlier. i wasnt thinking.

[raw crypt]

woag thats me

WAIT JELLYS MISSING

wait i also need to add the shattering guys no one escapes

[keen shore]

YEAH. over the course of this discussion I have seen so many people I have literally never seen in this channel before come in to try and change the topic, which is…

[violet sundial]

I mean… lore chat is really lax on topic rules but i feel like this does kinda go a bit far off

[keen shore]

Like, I would really enjoy being able to discuss my frustrations with queer rep in Sky and the world as an extension without someone I’ve never met before attempting to shut us down every few minutes

[limber trail]

remind me of this
(credits to.. me !!)

[bronze arch]

Because

1. It’s been running on long enough.
2. I can see it making some people a bit uncomfortable.
3. There are other topics to discuss.

Also FYI I’m pretty sure we have seen eachother, I’ve just been on a different name.

[thick gulch]

I like this
I didn’t manage to read all of the conversation. I probably shouldn’t tbh.
I should also check the pins again to make sure I don’t break lorechat rules

[graceful oasis]

Sips tea Because we need to find out the secret relationships of the characters.

[rigid mural]

Yeah, can we talk about other chats gossiping about here because the discussion got heated, this is not the kind of behavior that's appropriate when you got queer folks commiserating about DoR and getting told to deal with it when not straight up being told it's not pride.

[violet sundial]

I think this is a good discussion to have but i feel like that’d be better done in another place (uh, group chat….? I dunno aaaa)

[frigid tinsel]

Commodore is aroace, they love the sea more than romance /hc

[opaque lotus]

i’m just gonna say it makes me uncomfortable when people say my existence makes them uncomfortable

[violet sundial]

Cross chat gossip is weird and childish

[keen shore]

It’s been running on so long because people keep derailing it, trying to shut it down like you are now, or otherwise interrupt it so we can’t adequately talk about the situation. And there are no good reasons it would make people uncomfortable.

Also, we know that some of you guys are gossiping abt lorechat in other channels, especially cozy. We can see it and it’s gross.

[frigid tinsel]

Especially when they call us, us, homophobic

[bronze arch]

I never said anything. I heard gossip and came to see what the Hell it was about. I’d just like to point that out.

Also, I don’t recall anyone saying that we’re homophobic, it’s just that there was a miscommunication.

[rigid mural]

I'm not going to have remorse making people uncomfortable with my presence because I'm loudly queer and pointing out that TGC can do better or talking about queer issues here because the other chats are hostile.

[violet sundial]

Keyword some of you guys

[opaque lotus]

yeah that was partially me, i apologize for that- i wasn’t involved in this conversation and was mostly referring to the bigots

[frigid tinsel]

Salem words are anything but hostile. If anything, you are being hostile telling them to tolerate bigotry that personally affects under the veneer of “forgiveness”

[hushed steeple]

Okay so uhm, since there’s a slow mode up I’m going to briefly answer a few replies in one post.

Firstly, about neutrality. I never said neutrality isn’t harmful for either side, rather, understand why it was a hard move for TGC and how they did their best not to “offend” anyone, since that’s a very hard thing to do. Now, as for if I believe neutrality is harmful, I can’t answer this question. I have mixed feelings and could lean either way, and I’d rather not make a fool of myself trying. Secondly, about freedom of religion. This is a tough thing for me to input my opinion on as well. I apologize if I’m coming off as dumb or undetermined, that isn’t the case. I personally don’t want the discussion channel to turn into full-blown debating since that would, indeed, be against the nature of this channel. For the sake of giving a reply, I would have to say that you can’t force people to be apart of a certain religion. In my case, as you can observe, I am a Christian. My worldview, therefore, is most likely quite different. Either way, I think we can all agree that people have free will. They will do as they will, and nobody can stop them if they have made up their mind. As for what I think the boundaries of “forcing religion” are, I’d rather refrain from getting into a debate. If you can speak civilly, feel free to ask questions. As for the person who asked if I am queer, I’d rather not answer that and be put into a corner. My answer is probably different than expected but I’d rather not have everyone close their minds instantly and attack me in a split second. Again, debate and discussion are different.

Anyway, I forgot what else was being brought up, so do reply if you feel the need. I just ask you be respectful if you expect respect back.

[keen shore]

All the people saying “i didn’t say anything, but I heard gossip and came to check it out” as a gotcha are proving my point about total strangers hearing that we’re talking about queer erasure and coming to try and shut it down btw

[violet sundial]

I just came here to talk about Lightseeker cosmetics ☠️

I’ll come back later

Seeya ^^

[opaque lotus]

i’m just gonna put it out there- when it comes to things like this, there is no neutral- it’s either with us or against us :/

[keen shore]

Strange, I have to deal with fellow human beings saying hateful things about me and erasing my existence because I’m queer all the time. Funny that you have issues with this and not that.

[limber trail]

people are allowed to be upset. queer people get targeted, killed, oppressed, and stuff so many times. So I think it's understandable that when some people want to discuss the queer representation and the instrumentalisation (?) of lgbt by tgc, having people shutting the conversation and saying they're uncomfortable makes us angry.

[keen shore]

Imagine someone saying “I’m not against you, but I’m also not against the people who consistently erase and deride your very existence, and most of the time I take their sides in arguments anyways to keep the peace, so really we’re allies here”

[bronze arch]

As a gay person, I didn’t find any issue with the Days of Rainbow. I’m just grateful that there’s a Days of Rainbow at all.

[keen shore]

That’s fine. It’s not true for the rest of us though, and we should be allowed to express that without being shut down

[limber trail]

yes.
If you see someone being attacked and you don't react, your lack of reaction benefit whoever is attacking the oppressed minority. So by being neutral, you're helping the oppressor, and siding with them. But ofc some people here think it's all rainbow and confetti and that everyone should just get along and ofc don't forget to hug and send love to that guy who just tried to silence your voice and fight against your rights !(/sarcasm)

[violet sundial]

We never found out what charities were chosen, right?

[rigid mural]

Eyup

[frigid tinsel]

That’s not what we’re saying at all

[violet sundial]

We’re talking about real people’s right to live their lives in peace and to the fullest not ice cream though

[limber trail]

people's rights are not the same thing as ice cream.

[opaque lotus]

this isn’t really applicable to human rights, though

[pastel brook]

[hushed steeple]

It’s an analogy.

[white junco]

except instead of ice cream its queer people who want the right to exist vs people who think they should be able to do whatever they can to prevent queer people from existing. not the same

[keen shore]

Please don’t come back.

[frigid tinsel]

It’s a rather poor analogy that misses the damn point

[bronze arch]

There are people who don’t agree with being queer but respect that these are still human beings and just let them live their life.

This is what Gracy is trying to say.

[keen shore]

God all I have to say is that it’s insane and very telling that every time I (or any of us) have expressed discomfort with queerphobia in this community, someone always comes in to argue with me, shut down the conversation, or try to diminish my discomfort. Each time I mention it, my point gets proved more.

[white junco]

how can you disagree with a person existing tho

[edgy sleet]

Salem- Let's keep our language friendly here please. I know tensions are high, but being unkind here in skychat isn't productive.

[frigid tinsel]

Salem is being unkind??? Of all the bloody crap that’s been spewed against us, you’re calling out Salem????

[violet sundial]

Having known those people, I’d rather just them not say anything

I don’t need to know that they don’t think (in their words) my “choice” to be transgender is OK or valid

[opaque lotus]

this conversation is not good for my mental health so i’m going to leave now, queer people exist and deserve to live loudly with acceptance

[bronze arch]

THAT’S NOT WHAT I’M SAYING
*ahem*
They don’t agree that being gay is right. Not that gay people exist.

[sly lake]

This is a bit..well it's not a great take. For harmless things like food preferences which don't actively affect peoples way of life, sure you can disagree. But do keep in mind that "people who don’t agree with being queer" who are actively making it dangerous for those who are queer to live as who they are in certain areas of the world.

You will not be disowned by family, or jailed, over food preferences. However in some places of the world, it is illegal to be who you were born as. I hope this makes sense why this issue matters so much.

[frigid tinsel]

There are literal reactionary movements working to exterminate queerness for existence and if your take on it is “live and let live” your silence gives space to the bigots trying to kill us.

[rigid mural]

Are you kidding me, Salem has been nothing but cordial on this whole issue while we're dealing with people gossiping about us in cosy or shutting us down here !

[edgy sleet]

I just got here a moment ago, so I don't have the full context. But sky chat isn't the place for that kind of harshness, regardless of what was said or done before.

[uncut pond]

I mean facts don't care about people's opinions, gayness exists in nature and the wild, it's natural wether others "disagree" with it or not

[white junco]

what exactly is the difference between being gay and existing as a gay person?

[frigid tinsel]

If you don’t have the context, then it’s best you get the context before acting. You, as a community shepherd, should know that

[keen shore]

I have no words for this response, Jesus Christ.

[rigid mural]

Not community shepherds trying to throw the issue under the rug as well.

[bronze arch]

That’s not answerable with the context.

What I’m saying is that:
There are people who don’t think being gay is right, but they leave them alone because it doesn’t affect them personally.

[edgy sleet]

As I said, I don't believe that kind of comment is appropriate here regardless of the context.
And please rest assured that I didn't take any sort of action against them, I just requested that sort of comment not be made please. It's not any sort of official mod warning or trouble.

[keen shore]

Cheshire. I am trying my best to be respectful. But why am I the person you are getting frustrated at and not the blatant homophobes. Of course I am getting angry.

[violet sundial]

Please backread anshdhdhfgf
I get what you mean but i feel its rlly important you do that ASAP

[rigid mural]

Can you point out to me where Salem was rude ?

[limber trail]

@hushed steeple
you're awfully quiet for someone who have been reacting positively to every statement trying to silence queer people and sweep under the rugs their demands for more recognition.
I think you should check on yourself and try to think on why you so badly want to show how you disagree with queer people expressing their discomfort over the blatant queerphobia that's been growing lately here.
don't think that we're not seeing you.
respectfully

[frigid tinsel]

Being “the bigger person” is a sham. We will not turn the other cheek, we will not be polite to dolts who are doing their damnest to shut us down. It is not morally superior to let people walk all over you and say sorry when they trip on your teeth, you’re still gonna get trampled.

[eager eagle]

The only mean person here is people saying we are uncomfortable or should be not real or "wrong?" as LGBTQ+ people :/ it is mean and it is normal to react and speak

[white junco]

i think it's incredibly unfair to expect Salem to remain polite and civil and say nothing that's even a little bit rude when the discussion is literally revolving around whether or not people who think they shouldn't exist should be appeased/given a platform

[sly lake]

You're right in that there are people who are like that, and it is unfortunate that there are. You may be correct in that there are some who don't take actions against queer people, but they also don't attempt to stop actual injustices against queer people either because at the core, they do not agree with queer people or think they are "alright".

Imagine if instead of queer people, it was "I don't believe having brown hair is right, but they can exist anyways." Meanwhile in some places in the world, people with brown hair aren't hired because of their hair color, disowned by family, jailed, or at worst killed. It's something they were born with, it's not a choice, its who they are.
Can you understand why even those who sit by and do nothing yet agree with the harmful opinion can still be just as hurtful?

[keen shore]

Why is skycord the place for homophobia, but not angry reactions to said homophobia?

[frigid tinsel]

Again, if you’re a community shepherd or a mod or admin of any sort, you should really get context on the community you are trying to shepherd before doing anything because you can make things worse in your ignorance

[sudden sleet]

Hey folks! I’m just catching up here and need to backread a bit

Can I please ask that folks focus their chat on the channel topic for now?

[violet sundial]

It’s ok to be angry and voice your frustration about what someone has said

But like. Theres a better way to do that than tell someone to get out/not come back

[keen shore]

I will do all that and more to homophobes. They will not respect my existence, so they get the same treatment in return, I do not care

[frigid tinsel]

Throwback to the mod response to me being upset at racism here was “if you’re angry, touch grass”

[hushed steeple]

I apologize if I got off topic- that wasn’t my intention. I agree that we should change topics, because things are getting a bit too heated for a channel that is supposed to be calm.

[rigid mural]

Difference between christianity and gay people is that one is the status quo while the other is a minority that has to fight tooth and nail for recognition, acceptance and space.

[sly lake]

Don't forget, religion is also a choice as well.

Ene- The also was because it was an addition to the points Vela made.

[sudden sleet]

That has never been and never been our response to racism. I’m also going to ask that no one make any sweeping generalizations about an entire religion

[fair knot]

Also?

[violet sundial]

The fact that christians are the one in power in our society is not a generalization though. Do you mean something else?

[sudden sleet]

Again, I’m going to ask folks to return to the channel topic so that the arguments do not spiral out of control

[uncut pond]

The person who got told to not come back totally asked for it, I've been involved in many less than nice internet circles when I was younger and let me tell you that person definitely shouldn't be on lorechat.

[dull cave]

the issue isn't necessarily the discussion in itself; it's the fact that every time we (the queer community) try to bring up our concerns it is taken out of context and turned into a debate of whether neutrality is homophobic or some sort. we deserve respect and representation — as we are people who love and deserve to celebrate that love just as anyone else. our want to be seen and celebrated shouldn't be turned into a debate of whether we are being greedy or not. that is why we're angry/frustrated.

on another note; i came here to discuss some lore and did not mean for any of this to get off topic, but i also can't sit still and watch my community be undermined.

[rigid mural]

Bigots and people saying both sides are equal should not come back near my viscinity. People that don't accept queer folks are going against Sky's message of acceptance despite our differences.

[edgy sleet]

Since a mod has asked us to change topic- Does anyone have thoughts on the crystal crabs? Are they born from the shard, or do they come from somewhere?

[bronze arch]

Y’all, we gotta pay attention to the Performance Guide, they seem important.

In the Harmony Hall, there are 3 points in their routine that stand out.

When the Performance Guide and the Frantic Stagehand walks over to the keyboard-strings, they use the Telekinesis emote, which visibly shocked the Frantic Stagehand and the Modest Dancer.

There’s a part where if the Handpan has appeared, the Performance Guide will use the Levitate. The only other Spirit in the game who can do this is the Meditating Monastic, who requires 2 prior Spirits to find.

Nearing the end of the routine, the Performance Guide stomps on the ground with a magic(?) circle around them. When the Frantic Stagehand tries, it does not make a magic circle (to which
the Frantic Stagehand threw a fit).

With all of these, I think it’s safe to say that the Performance Guide has something else going on that could come up later.

(I have been working on this throughout the entire thing to try and change the topic.)

[graceful oasis]

I hope this helps and I am sorry for doing this.
#lore-discussion-spoilers message
Scroll down from here…

[keen shore]

I manifest the crystal crabs to chase and whack homophobes

[tepid veldt]

i like to think that they are the real ||eden king|| theyve dogpiled me several times

[thick gulch]

I think they got corrupted by the shards

[limber trail]

ah, same
me who just wanted to talk about crabs and ended up seeing people from my community being silenced and having their voice ignored when complaining about queerphobia..

[restive pawn]

i think they just got caught up in the crystal aint no way they came from the crystal itself

[sudden sleet]

Thank you for your patience folks while I backread.

For the record, this server is a place for people of ALL identities, including those who identify as LGBTQ+. We will not allow disparaging remarks against any fellow community member, especially if it’s based on their identity

[white junco]

crystal crabs are most likely crabs that have been corrupted from contact with the eden crystals. idk if they still do this but i remember in beta you could drop a crab onto a shard and it would grow shards (and promptly fall through the floor)

[uncut pond]

I believe the crystals, both blue and red, are parasitic
We can see blue crystals growing out of our skid when we get downed on Eden

[sudden sleet]

(I’ve temporarily increased the slowmode while I backread—I’ll be sure to reduce it again once I’m done. Thanks again all )

[dull cave]

is there a confirmed storyline of where eden originates from or are they all theories? this whole season has me spiraling in questions. how are the jellyfish and mantas tied into the darkness ? and the crabs too ? also lmk if i have to tag spoilers on any of my messages i don't wanna mess up anything haha

[hushed steeple]

I know that arguing at social media is absolutely useless and no proplem that gay peaple are facing is being solved that way
I'm just tired of the negativety that's been around lately
I'm sorry if I it seemed like I was shoving queer peaple proplems under the rug
I just genuinely think nothing being said here is solving anything
Also I would rather to not ping me again I have been going through alot in real world I would like to stay away from social media drama

[noble ferry]

what do ancestors eat? like im curious about that

[candid plume]

rice balls

[hushed steeple]

I don’t know! I haven’t been to DP during the shard events, so this may not be correct but I’m leaning towards them being born from the shards, since they (might be wrong about this) appear in realms with no crabs?

Also, I think ancestors eat all different kinds of food! Made by grandma of course.

[opaque lotus]

wax and crabs like the rest of us

[frigid tinsel]

Yea, it has. This was after my message was deleted when I called out someone who called afros crappy. There was no response to the racism at hand. Just “if you’re upset, walk away.”

[graceful oasis]

The local crabs just got rocks on their backs and somehow the rock is like a type fungus so Rock likes it dark being to steal some light.

[limber trail]

they appeared once in forest, the sort of middle area. The one where you burn plants and you discover a little cave with crabs and the hide and seek spirit.
that's contradictory to what you think
also, what I wanted to say when I first came here
I noticed every area there's crabs, there's dark blue plants too..

[bronze arch]

I understand how people can be mad at thatgamecompany for their seemingly lackluster LGBTQ+ representation, however it is still important to remember that this game is from America, which has bad history regarding representation in games. And also, this is absolutely not the place for this kind of argument.

I know it’s important to vent your troubles, but this isn’t the kind of place. People come here to have fun and figure out what is going on in this abstract and environmental story, not to argue about politics.

Also I think the Crystal Crabs are a mix of crabs that were naturally in the ground that hot kicked up by the shards and the shards themselves influencing them.

[sudden sleet]

I’m happy to explain this one, Alasdair—this is very common guidance we give in the server whenever we see that a conflict has built up in the chat

[tepid veldt]

i havent talked about lore for awhile so here we go
iirc the intro said the stars “fell,” and that we had to “bring them home,” right?
what if the dark plants + crabs in every realm is what occurs when the world isnt in order (when the stars arent in the sky,) hence why daylight prairie, a seemingly peaceful realm, has them too?

[keen shore]

even to blatant racism? cmon man,

[sudden sleet]

Please let me finish my post

[violet sundial]

Can ya’ll please just
Read first in the future???? I think it would save ya’ll a lot of trouble to just say “hey i’m gonna backread” and put in slowmode

[uncut pond]

Please try to write the full thing in one go the next time, it didn't really seem like the post was gonna continue

[rigid mural]

Oh hey, that's what I gave feedback on.

[hushed steeple]

Are there? I never noticed crabs in Valley or Daylight Prairie!

Also, didn’t the mods say drop it? I understand people may have more to say but please do listen to the staff! They are trained to handle these things. In the mean time, let’s be kind to each other, take a breather if you need it.

Anyway, what’s everyone’s favorite realm and why?

[sudden sleet]

(I’ll try not to text wall so that I don’t hog the chat)
Should community members shrug their shoulders and lol at homophobic or racist posts? Absolutely not. Every single one of us plays a role in keeping the community welcoming, including by not allowing these kind of posts to be accepted. But if the response to “We don’t allow homophobia here” is someone refusing to stop homophobic (or other disparaging) comments, mods have tools at our disposal that CAN stop the disrespectful posts.

[noble ferry]

There's krebs in the valley temple sideroom and sanctuary (there's even friendly crabs in one of the sanc islands near the trench where the turtle is. they're so cute).
i do like forest's vibes tho

[sudden sleet]

This is why we ask people that, when it gets to a point where there’s a negative feedback loop, that it can be more effective to withdraw from the argument and allow a moderator to intervene (like now)

[bronze arch]

I feel like it should’ve been finished before it was sent, especially if part of it was that.

And also, the original message from Harbin should have also included a mention about the topic at hand.

There is no excuse for either situation - the racism shouldn’t have been looked over for a minute to say “hey everyone calm down” when they could’ve done both the same time, and your post should have been finished before it was sent.

Normally I have great respect for authority and especially here but when hate speech comes into play you don’t do everything at once despite the fact you absolutely CAN and absolutely should.

I don’t like arguing with or attempting to talk like this to those of higher authority but I find that this is ridiculous.

[sudden sleet]

And this is also why we ask people to not continue the argument once we intervene, because it often makes the tension worse

I don’t claim to be perfect, but I’m doing my best to address the concerns at hand while also backreading

[bronze arch]

I should be relaxing and enjoying : Children of the Light, not being here and arguing about how people do their jobs. Technically I should be asleep.

And by no means is anyone perfect nor should anyone claim to be, I understand you’re tying to do your job to the best of your ability, but it doesn’t seem like you’re using all your tools to the best of your ability, and I mean this respectfully.

I will be leaving now, do not ping me here. If you have any concerns, please take it to my DMs.

[frigid tinsel]

we're not asking mods to be perfect, we would rather the mods use their tools to shut down and punish the blatant bigotry we face. instead, they continue to preach about being fair to everyone while tolerating bigotry or, in some cases, made the situation worse. you do not have to perfect, we are just asking you to make the server as much as a safe space as you claim.

yet, this keeps happening, we keep having to deal with bigots over and over again. they feel emboldened. it would be much easier if there was frequent, timely, blatant mod action to shut that down so the people making this server unsafe would leave us alone.

[violet sundial]

I have a quick question for context if you don’t mind answering; did anyone make direct mention of the comment the person made about afros to the mods/report it?

[sudden sleet]

I’m not preaching “fairness to everyone,” and I am here precisely to make sure that bigoted comments do not take hold in the server. I know that I was late to the situation, though, and I apologize for that.

[rigid mural]

Honestly tired from arguing that queer folks shouldn't only be recognised, but also accepted no matter people's opinions. We complain in lore chat because it's a discussion channel populated by gay and neurodivergent folks that won't sweep the topic under the rug.

Anyway I'm plugging in a theory I'm proud of where ancestors and skykids work more or less the same and fill similar roles but with different niches; much like adults are wise to life and its hardships, ancestors could have been more resistant to darkness hence why they could handle it.
Skykids could have been more vulnerable, but that vulnerability could be their greatest strength as well...

[sly lake]

(Not disagreeing with you here Alasdair.)
To your latter point though I think we here should've been more prompt with pinging the role during this discussion. I know I did not think about it until just now, but I imagine, or hope, that it may help with more prompt intervention.
There is quite a large ratio of active channels and users compared to online moderators. So I'm not sure if using the contact mods channel will receive prompt responses all the time, depending on on moderator online status, compared to a ping which may send a notification noise?

Edit: Thank you for the clarification, Nagati!

[hushed steeple]

Awww, this is such a cute theory!

[sudden sleet]

(We prefer people to ping the mod role for situations like this! With huge servers like this one, Discord won’t give notifications for individual channels if we don’t already have the app open—but it does if the role is pinged )

[frigid tinsel]

I didn't contact the mods because they have repeatedly failed lorechat, especially when it comes to discussion of queerness. we currently have a 6min slowmo for crying out loud. once when we were being trolled and the mod role was pinged, they muted the person who was being trolled.

as for not enough mods, I completely understand that they are human with their own lives outside of Discord as well as dealing with the server elsewhere. that's why a server, especially one of this size should have more mods. this is a server with almost 450k members! but 6 or 7 mods. that's ridiculous

[violet sundial]

You kind of have to try though imo
If you don’t reach out to the people who can do anything at all it’s not going to get any better than it would be if a mod came in and responded to the issue in a nonhelpful way

No matter how many mods there are it’s still very difficult to have an eye on everything at all times

[sly lake]

I both love this theory, and your art. Your theories about spirits always intrigue me and your artwork is always a delightful thing to see, Vela. The concept of adults, therefore spirits, being more weighted down physically with the hardships of the world sounds fitting for the world of Sky! Do you think this applies to children ancestors as well?

[frigid tinsel]

I did try. and they failed. lorechat has been able to handle itself other times without mod intervention. in some cases, things became worse when a mod intervened, prompted or unprompted.
now I only reach out when spammers attack.

[sudden sleet]

Our goal is the same no matter what the channel is: to address and hopefully prevent behavior that causes harm in the community. We may not respond perfectly every single time, but we do our best to improve and do better.

[violet sundial]

That’s. Really frustrating

I really really don’t think this chat handled the homophobia and general negativity stemming from it earlier very well though? Idk there’s a lot to it but that was. Not pleasant at all and it completely ruined my mood (and pretty much everyones 💀)

More explanation on this part btw i feel like the point where ppl started coming in with their Bad Takes (for lack of a better term ) or without context is the point where it would’ve been ideal to have a mod intervene

I think the only way out is for the mods to learn from these experiences (Which we have 0 control over!!!) and for the chat to try to trust them again

That’s the ideal scenario at least…….,,.,.

[rigid mural]

I don't want to imagine Ancestors are flightless because of adulthood (I dislike the trope of magic being a kids and teens thing only because it makes people afraid of growing up).

Rather, I think they are simply built different. Skykids are the descendants, so they could be supposed to succeed where ancestors failed.
I imagine that in a hostile, possibly post apocalyptic world, it could have been even harder to open up and be vulnerable enough to form tight enough connections with the Light to stand against the suffocating darkness. Think of it as warmth and light not as easily radiating from a stone lantern than from a paper one.

It could reflect adults putting up barriers protecting themselves, something healthy to do but not in excess where can be isolating. Like adults indulging in silliness being frowned upon, because that show of vulnerability is "unsightly".

[tough coral]

slides into chat so it just clicked for me that the performance spirits don't really ascend like all the other seasonal spirits (i know lightseeker spirits are around a lot but they’re a Sometimes thing not like. let me explain) oh i did not realize slowmode was 5 minjtes i MISREAD THAT AS SIX HOURS oh

okay nevermind i am going to wait to ramble because i normally talk fast and in several short messages and it is actually very unpleasant to try and cram everything into one message here, even with the normal 30 second slowmode oh dear

[sudden sleet]

(Sorry, forgot about the slowmode!)

[rigid mural]

I just realized I went into a tangent without answering the question ! Apologies.

Yes, I do think ancestor kids would be resistant to darkness as well ! They lived in that world, unlike skykids who see it after it died out. They likely aren't adverse to being vulnerable though, and thus could connect better than most adult spirits with skykids ! They're both childlike or litteral children so :]

[white junco]

could you explain what you mean by the "performance spirits don't ascend normally"? I don't think i follow /gen

[graceful oasis]

I swear the only thing I imagine with Vela idea and image they send is that the Spirits are glow sticks.

[violet sundial]

Also i’m sorry for. Not being helpful during the discussion earlier if that makes any sense

[tough coral]

I mean "normally" as in uhmm uh. They’re still all in the music shop after the season ends and the stagehand is still backstage- unlike most other spirits who come back to the kingdom after ascending from time to time, the performance spirits just... pop up there for five seconds and then stay in the living world permanently

which, honestly, i find VERY interesting- the performance spirits are proof that ascending isn't really an end-all "this is the best option for the spirits being ghosts SUCKS" situation, since they decide to stick around, AND they're clearly... tangible to some degree since they're running an entire music shop while still spirits

[violet sundial]

I feel like it’s more of one of those “not lore” things if that makes any sense? Maybe they wanted the music shop to feel more personable and charming instead of just being empty and lonely

[frigid tinsel]

granted in the final quest cutscene they do ascend (except the guide but that seems to be a theme). in-game it could've been an oversight or as Luka said to habitat the music shop, but I like to think in-universe they either didn't ascend immediately or they descend sometimes to chill

[white junco]

ah yeah! come to think of it, that is odd. spirits who've ascended can come back down whenever they please, maybe they wanted to help mentor the musicians among the skykids?

[tough coral]

i do get that they do ascend but... the performance spirits are the only ones other than the spirit guides who stay in the world permanently. I'm actually INCREDIBLY fascinated by this and it mmmmay be the cause of my sudden interest in spirits lol

[white junco]

i said musicians bc of harmony hall but it was probably for any type of performer

[violet sundial]

Modest Dancer teaching skykids to tap dance to “The Disappearance of Hatsune Miku”

[white junco]

adding that to the list of "things i never knew i needed to see until now"

[rigid mural]

In my theory, Elders are fallen stars, their light is much greater and more powerful than that of an ancestor. At least, in the past...

They're vast beings embodying a particular set of ideas, such as guidance for the Isle Elder or knowledge for the vault elder. They got an intimate bond with their realm where one affects the other (they would definitely feel darkness landing for example, or their realm would grow more colorful as they regain their strength).

They're beacons. Like stars linked between eachother with lines, just like their temples are linked by the flow of light in the form of migrating creatures.

[violet sundial]

After the dance session everyone had to go buy new legs at the supermarket

[frigid tinsel]

omg it's a song and a book

[violet sundial]

Wait there’s a book-

[tough coral]

Especially the fact that the performance spirits run an ACTUAL STORE. like the enchantment spell shop can kinda be brushed over bc its spells and iirc its just the stuff they had on hand when the ship crashed but harmony hall is... it's not some messy pile of stuff, everything is very nicely set up and clean and recent looking, there is clearly some sort of upkeep going on, and even tho it COULD be the work of the skykids it also could be the performance spirits which in turn means they can interact with the physical world which is a VERY BIG DEAL because!!!! Because if you can interact with the world and people can see you you are basically a living person so is being a spirit really all that bad, especially since the performance spirits DECIDED NOT TO STAY IN ORBIT AND REMAINED AS SPIRITS IN THE LIVING WORLD

I am sorry i am soooososo normal about this concept (i am NOt normal about it) (i am so not normal rn)

[white junco]

question based off of vela's elder hc. which do you think was lost first? the eden elder, or their realm?

[rigid mural]

Sky "chicken or the egg" question.

[violet sundial]

I’ll get back to you on that later during Shattering for Reasons/hj

[graceful oasis]

Huh…. Neat. The Elders are honestly important, and I guess I want to say that….. imagine the Spirits as bells and Shakeable glow sticks….

[white junco]

i usually bring it up with wasteland but honestly it works for every realm

[frigid tinsel]

whether you consider living ancestors flesh-and-blood or something like Vela's lantern people, I think ancestors living bodies protected their light from darkness. every spirit we find had been petrified by darkness. while spirits could interact with the world as much as living people, I think their light is more vulnerable to darkness, effectively killing them again.

[fair knot]

Why Spirits from seasons don't have graves?

[bronze arch]

Because we can’t access them post-Season.

[violet sundial]

I think the Gratitude crew mightve had something like that in Light Awaits tho tbh???? I dunno
Also what adamn said

[white junco]

i know you used to have to bring the lightseekers to the elder temples to ascend, i have screenshots

[rigid mural]

They look very polite when sitting, blowing them all a kiss.

[rigid mural]

BELOVEDS

[violet sundial]

Gosh the old days of crab whisperer’s cape being horribly colored

[frigid tinsel]

honestly it makes sense to take them to Elder temples to ascend. idk why spirits can just ascend on their own but /shrug
also they look very precious, I want to hold them

[raw crypt]

THEY LOOK SO CUTE

also almost forgot to post this, edited with new guys, shout out the wiki having images of the ancient light and dark, iconic

[rigid mural]

Hero

[white junco]

i found these in the old files of the sky wiki, before live release it was the wiki for LA and theres a bunch of old images in there. the other place i go for old stuff is twitter (search the #thatskygame hashtag and search by date)

[frigid tinsel]

Slink you legend

[violet sundial]

Also does anyone wanna hear abt a cool Sky instrument i designed??? I think yall would like it

Okok lemme go find the drawing HDHDHFHFHFH

[fair knot]

I know ... but its kind of weird that they dont have graves o.o Old spirits have those graves with their blue flames, and the new ones looking like wandering spirits with untouched kingdoms, "freazed in time"

[violet sundial]

It’s based on a Morin khuur but the head of the scroll is an elder bird

That’s kinda all i have to say thought it’d be cool to show ^^

Also i think they have graves but we’re not shown them in most cases

[floral grove]

It could have its own freeplay interface that lets the player slide the notes freely since the morin khuur has no frets

[violet sundial]

HOWEVER
Leaping Dancer has a grave

[white junco]

it's been so long since i was a moth, do spirits you haven't brought to the temple just not show up by the graves?

[floral grove]

They don't afaik
Edit: a question mark shows up when you go close to a grave of a Spirit that hasn't bene brought to a temple

[violet sundial]

They still do actually, at least up to Abyss^^

That’s my experience in Beta at least since I got in around that time

[floral grove]

Really? That's strange

[violet sundial]

Also I hadn’t thought about this in particular since I had only designed this for a Skykid oc but thatd be really neat

ALSO ty for that piece of information anyways though I didn’t actually know that! V helpful/gen

[white junco]

i’ve been thinking about making an alt account to be able to view & record things that only moths see for a while now, will have to put this on the list

i made my beta account at the very end of prophecy so i don’t have any memories from there either

[violet sundial]

Icic

I’m gonna go now, seeya everyone ^^

[white junco]

see ya!

[tough coral]

Hhhhhheyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy uh guess who made a startling realization about the season of flight spirits!
they're an actual damned rebellion group they are not a bunch of nature loving hippies this is a bunch of rebels against the king

[white junco]

flight guide punches darkstone users, it’s true tgc told me

[tough coral]

Think about it think about it. They're a small tightly knit group of people clearly against the use of darkstones/power diamonds, sure, yeah, but they’re also based in the wind paths. Yknow, they... they are based in an area that allows them to travel to every corner of the kingdom at a very fast pace without being detected. The wind paths are pretty much the veins of the sky kingdom, you could go from the isle of dawn to the vault of knowledge in like, probably just a few hours

This is the skyworld equivalent of having a system of tunnels underneath a city. They are actively against the main thing that eden is known for, they can travel wherever they want effortlessly, they are a very small group of people so this is CLEARLY not a proper official town, and the way into the wind paths is, iirc, above eye level when you're at the edge of the forest social space- its reasonably hidden

[fair knot]

Season of flight beds look like coffins .... Rebels and goths spirits against the sky king

[tough coral]

i always thought the flight spirits were just some chill group of nature lovers taking care of the wind paths and the animals in it. but like. Everything lines up too perfectly. They're in a hidden location with access to every part of the kingdom and also there is not a single spirit in the season of flight who i cannot imagine being willing to kill someone if the situation called for it they just have those vibes

Im sorry i am going nuts over this

[noble ferry]

quite interesting thought tho
i personally dont imagine the flight spirits like that tbh but it is an interesting thought

[tough coral]

i have not thought this thru too far but like. The pieces are all there yknow? a tightly knit small group of people with an obvious conflict of interest with the powers in charge of the kingdom, and this group is living in an isolated part of the kingdom that ALSO allows them to travel to anywhere else in the kingdom as they so please

[violet sundial]

Popping in again to say i rlly like that idea in terms of like
So yk how the wasteland war was originally concepted as a battle between light creatures and ancestors? What if currently lorewise its like
Spirits rebel against king and fight amongst the Light creatures
And therefore the Flight spirits would be carrying on that fight in a diff way

Gonna jump back out again bye KDHDFGHDG (ping on for replys please )

[noble ferry]

imagine flight spirits riding mantas and airbombing wasteland
that sounds so wild
i dont have any ideas i ran out of brain cells

[wheat cypress]

I support.

[noble ferry]

exhibit A: a poor depiction of Light Whisperer airbombing
perfectly lore accurate

[steep prawn]

i wondered if they actually use the light creatures as war beast

[steep prawn]

do we have more of this aside from the basic

[hushed steeple]

lore question, what do the crabs canonically eat

[calm jay]

i don't think there's a canonical answer for that specifically as we don't really have any evidence that they eat anything in game.
in real life, crabs eat algae and seaweed (maybe in game they eat dark plants) as well as small fish and krill (i don't think the in game crabs would be able to take down a whole krill, but maybe they scavenge on dead ones they find?)

[floral grove]

Perhaps this is also the reason why that one cave in Sanctuaru with the big dark plant has so many evil crabs in it. The crabs went there to feast on the dark plant but ended up turning evil because of it

[scenic siren]

How fast is sky kid flying speed?

Standing still, a sky kid can fly out of sight in just a few seconds
They can fly from realm to realm in less than 1 day. May equal to flying from country to country (the realms must be bigger than what we see in game, consider the map transition with clouds)

Flying speed as fast as a commercial air plane when glide and flap wing?

[hushed steeple]

Lore chat be mathing hard

[visual lichen]

The way I see it,,,, as fast as a brid can fly. Depending on the wind and it's direction will also help speed up.

[noble ferry]

It all comes back to math lore eventually
soon, skids will invent the large moff collider with all the math /j

[visual lichen]

If I were to put the speed itself into terms I can uderstand, I would say you fly about 90 to 100 kilometers per hour

I just finished the trials. And ummm no mention of king, no symbolism for royalty. But beside that, did anyone notice that in trail of fire, there are creatures floating around that sound like Krill, but have the sort of shape of the whale in the beginning of wasteland? Brutal. I think it's a whale that's been fully corrupted, it does have what I say is 2 big red eyes of light that pulsate like a sonar pulses. Maybe its related to the krill Krill or is a krill? that could explain why it drains all your light instantly, and Moves and sounds just like the Krill.

[uncut pond]

Around the cave of prophecy, in the main area where the guide is, there are a few torches/lanterns you can lit like candles, they'll reveal more about the murals

[visual lichen]

Thanks will give it a look hehehe

[sharp lichen]

I actually have no idea, but we do have a real-life measurement.

The mid Skykid is 38 inches
tall, while a chibi Skykid is 27 inches.

I’ve used this for other calculations in the past, but never for Skykid flying, as measuring it would be too time-consuming

[floral grove]

I got nothing else to do this evening. I might attempt to do some maths to try and see how fast a skid could fly

I can use Office rooftop as a testing ground since it's a flat area. I'll update yall here if I do end up taking the time to experiment

[sharp lichen]

Sorry for the late response, but:

I think the void is there just to show us the Eden calamity, and how it affected life, thus motivating us.

There are other theories about that friendly crystal, but my personal one is that its the remains of a spirit/citizen of Eden.

[waxen quest]

Steven universe collab part 1

[earnest briar]

I am all for the Flight Spirits being able to commit crimes. Flight Guide seems like they would enjoy arson lol, their first quest is to deliver candles after all.

[thin dirge]

What if its Megabird/the Light but decided to "appear" to us to be our guide, and they took on a form that best represents our quest?

Note the quotations on "appear"

[earnest briar]

Ooh, like it's putting on a disguise to trick the Darkness and Eden by masquerading as a miniature Eden crystal? That would be cool. Makes me wonder what other forms it could take to help Sky Kids?

[thin dirge]

Closest I could think of is the WL in the dark room when we lose all our WLs and light before Eden, but Im not sure if that really counts as one....

Other than that, there's possible narrator voice in the intro but yeah?

[earnest briar]

I think it would make sense if that voice was Megabird giving us backstory and guiding us on what to do.

[thin dirge]

Also, when I said "appear", its not in a literal sense, but just more of a projection I guess?

[earnest briar]

Heck maybe we can even incorporate the Light that shows us where to go when we honk. It's a literal manifestation of our inner Light guiding us to Eden.

[thin dirge]

It makes some sort of sense. And someone's gotta be telling us what our mission is, and the only person who did that so far without Spirits or Elders may have been the Megabird.

[thin dirge]

I once pointed out too that its most likely the Megabird because the narrator was talking from multiple prespectives. From Light Creatures, to the Spirits and then suddenly to the WL. As if theyre "everyone" at once.

[earnest briar]

Oh also, I noticed something cool when going back to Isle to meet Daleth. All the realm constellations show up in the sky instead of just the Isle one, showing that we've helped them all.

[thin dirge]

Ah, that happens even when you start out for the first time I think

[earnest briar]

Nope, it's just Isle on your first run.

[thin dirge]

[earnest briar]

I have a good memory lol

[thin dirge]

Woah, what happens if you just finish Prairie and go back to Isle and relive the cutscene?

[earnest briar]

I assume Prairie would show up too.

[thin dirge]

I thought Isle will all constellations cutscene was already there when you first do it? I think I remember doing that a long time ago, when I went to check the new intro revamp

[steep prawn]

oh you meant the shadows in the trials of fire but i thought they were the only creatures that doesn’t have a dark title to them

[earnest briar]

I call them Smokies haha, makes them less scary in a way.

[steep prawn]

hahahahaha that’s adorable

[earnest briar]

also, did you know Memory Candles distract the crystal crabs? If you deep call in one, it will make the crabs charge after the projection.

[thin dirge]

Puffies? (As in puffs of smoke)

Wait, oml, that sounds like "Puppies", lmao

[steep prawn]

oh yes very useful no one gets hurt, everyone gets energy, shard or red or crystal crabs are occupied

[earnest briar]

bless those people who put down Memory candles at shard landing spots, they're WL-savers.

[steep prawn]

indeed very much

[earnest briar]

chibis who chibi fall into the 4-player doors in Vault but still come back to help open when there's 3 other people are also nice.

usually when my chibi friends come with me to Vault, we only chibi fall as a last resort if there's no other people around so people aren't stuck waiting for us.

[willow parcel]

Has there been an actual appearance of elderbird? I cant remember if the thing we freed in the end of flight was it or not

[earnest briar]

I'd call that an Elder Manta, not an Elderbird.

[steep prawn]

no but the design is similar to the rhythm bird so far we cant see it anymore too lmao

[toxic onyx]

quick question, what's the significance of hair in sky? Because its obviously important since that's the ultimate gift from all of the elders, plus golden wasteland elder hair looks like a krill which must have some meaning? Or it's all just coincidental haha

[floral grove]

I skimmed over some stuff on the web about what hair could symbolize and they all have one thing in common: strength. In Sky, hair could probably have the same symbolical meaning to it as it is the only part of the body that stays pure white despite one is dead (as seen from the Spirits). Not only that, but Light creatures are all white beings with golden trimmings, which could signify their connection to the Light. Perhaps, when the Elders offer their hair to us, it is a metaphorical way of them rewarding us strength or power for saving every petrified Spirit in their realm

[floral grove]

Update so far: I've finished recording sample videos of my experiment. I'll update again after I find out the results

[sharp lichen]

Sky math still has a stranglehold on this channel

[floral grove]

I got it yall

From my maths, Sky Kids fly at around 8.19 meters per second or 26.86ft/s. For reference, the average human runs at 5 meters per second

I also did some other tests for running and run-hopping

Running is around 3.51 meters per second or 11.51ft/s

Run-hopping is around 4.91 meters per second or 16.11ft/s. Run-hopping is about just as fast as a the average human's running speed

[sharp lichen]

How on earth did you calculate it?

Oh wait, did you use the Faint emote to calculate distance?

[floral grove]

I took my Sky Kid's height and then used it to calculate the distance between the party pennants and the pole that holds up the stage roof in Office. My Sky Kid is 3'5" (106cm) so the distance between the pennants and pole is around (106cm * 24) - 88.33

I then measured the amount of time it took for my Sky Kid to reach the stage roof pole with flying, running, and run hopping

[sharp lichen]

Got it, maybe I’ll test it as well to make sure it’s accurate. I wonder if the times are different with different heights

[floral grove]

Yes I highly suggest that! My test only has one sample in each mode of travelling so it might not be the most accurate computations ever. At the very least, we got an idea how fast Sky Kids could really be

[keen shore]

AIFNWIFUEF THE VOID OF SHATTERING…

[floral grove]

Void really said ♦️

[keen shore]

am I missing something, why are we genderin the rock /hj

[floral grove]

Ope my bad hold on

[keen shore]

WIDJWOFH SASC that made me giggle so hard , Ty

[keen shore]

Fun quick fact that I’ll drop in as well: none of the prophets ascended either…. We still don’t know where they went. They were just there and then they were gone

[floral grove]

For anybody who wants to replicate this experiment, do it at Office and go to the roof. Find this spot shown in the picture and run towards to pole circled in purple

[keen shore]

also sajain late but I totally support he/himing the void of shattering because in my mind he would be a guy named Kyle who punches the wall whenever he gets mad

[floral grove]

That is a very specific characteristic of his but that's still cool

[keen shore]

Whenever flight guide sees a darkstone boat in the wind paths they beat up everyone in it and send a bird to steal things, this is what actually happened to the abyss crew

[scenic siren]

This may help future measurements :D Distance between 2 poles of the flag string prop is approximately 4 chibis

[steep prawn]

ah yes the bird saboteurs

[floral grove]

Oops my bad yall I made a mistake with mt calculations. Will edit my message as soon as I get the right answers

[hoary ingot]

What are we measuring?

[sharp lichen]

@hoary ingot The flying, running, and run-hopping speed of a Skykid. We want as much different perspectives as possible, so if you want to help, use the thing I've replied as a reference and make sure to time it.

[floral grove]

This ^

I've also edited it now. Most changes are actually just in the decimals so their speed isn't affected by a lot. Hopefully there aren't anymore mistakes

Another thing, the distance between the pennants and the pole is 2,455.67cm (80'8") from my measurement

[nimble ingot]

Anything bigger than a skykid since we dont have measuring tapes.

[sharp lichen]

The largest placeable object (horizontally) is a table, maybe we should use that?

And yes Salem welcome to Mathchat yet again! There's no escape

[keen shore]

YEAH ITS SO FUNNY BECAUSE THEY ALL LOOK SO WHOLESOME AND HARMLESS ON THE SURFACE BUT I CAN TOTALLY SEE EACJ FLIGHT SPIRIT BEATING UP DARKSTONE USERS IT IS HILARIOUS.

I also read your other messages btw and they were super interesting, I keep forgetting how Hidden the wind paths are… another observation is that, if they weren’t as hidden and more used as a superhighway, flight guide would be able to hear all sorts of random information that people let slip. It would be a perfect place for a spy, and they look so unassuming which makes it even better. Alasdair has a fic exceprt that made me realize this.

I think sanctuary is also a rebel group to some extent, although not as hidden as flight. Like instead of actively sabotaging things they’d just provide a haven for light creatures that couldn’t be touched by darkstone. Fighting back by doing whatever they could, basically. This is also why I think we had to find the bells and restore them, because the sanctuary spirits/guide hid them when it looked like the creatures the islands were a sanctuary for would no longer be protected from refinery use, and because the bells summoned and kept them around — basically like chasing off the creatures so they wouldn’t be found

[scenic siren]

I just measured the roof panes by flag string prop, and each roof pane is approximately 33 chibis

[floral grove]

A chibi is 27 inches (from Baudshaw) so that would be 33 * 27in

That's 891 inches or 22.63 meters (74.25 feet)

[scenic siren]

The gap between each roof pane is around 0.75 chibi
So Office length is 4 roof panes + 3 gaps = 33 * 4 + 0.75 * 3 = 134.25 chibis
In Earth's measure unit, it's 134.25 * 27 = 3624.75 inches = 92.06865 metres

[wheat cypress]

Bruh I just woke up its too early for sky math 😵‍💫...

[floral grove]

I like to imagine that Spirits all lied down when measuring their temples and stuff

[floral grove]

It all started from our curiosity as to how fast Sky Kids fly

[wheat cypress]

Beautiful.... do tell if you figure it out

[floral grove]

@wheat cypress We have but it's probably not very accurate. We do have the gist though

[wheat cypress]

Noiceee

Yall are geniuses lol

Salem gave me a PhD so I have the power to grant you a Math doctorate for this research lol

[graceful oasis]

I have a PhD in Candle Theory.

Aka literally nothing, it’s questionable.

[sharp lichen]

Here’s my calculations:

Flying speed part 1: 21.11 MPH (9.44 meters per second)

Flying speed part 2: 18.96 MPH (8.47 meters per second)

Running speed: 7.7 MPH (3.46 meters per second)

Run hopping: 10.536 MPH (4.7 meters per second)

I think the only real difference between both of our calculations is human error. I think we can safely say we’ve found the flying and running speed for a Skykid!

[frigid tinsel]

Not really fic but just a drabble musing about the idea

[keen shore]

YEAH YEAH THAT ONE. IT INSPIRED THAT REALIZATION AND I LOVE IT A LOT,

what were the other spies you mentioned that aren’t in there? I want to say sneaky survivor was one but I can’t remember if there were more

[frigid tinsel]

So far only Sneaky Survivor and maybe Flight guide

[primal sierra]

Hello lore chat, I have updated my fanfiction and I have to admit something; Writing the Vault, especially when focusing on its beta state, is. Surprisingly hard--

[keen shore]

I’m trying to think of other spirits that would be spies, although I’m not sure who else. I guess that means they’d just be really good st their job though

[hushed steeple]

Maybe the Lightseekers?

[keen shore]

I thought of them too! I think given their job, it could work, but I’d also imagine they’d be too obvious and so people would keep secrets from them.

[frigid tinsel]

Lightseekers travel a lot. I could see it

[hushed steeple]

Maybe they were part of a cult/religion and the lightseekers we see in the memories where the spies/saboteurs sent by the Morning Elders

[keen shore]

I could definitely see it but I feel like everyone would be like… watch out there’s a lightseeker don’t mention refinery plans to them or something

[hushed steeple]

Well maybe some of them were traders, athletes, and scholars, to reach those positions in Evening Elder's Realms, you would need to forget about even mentioning megabird

[keen shore]

I’m not entirely sure about that not being able to mention Megabird, to be honest

[frigid tinsel]

I see the Lightseekers as formed by and obey Rain Elder at the highest order but they can all attend to different Elders

[hushed steeple]

Didn't Rain lock mantas?

[keen shore]

Like, I get why it’s a possibility, but especially for places like vault I’d think it’s a bit more complicated than that. Especially because we can actually see Megabird as players, implying that They might have also been obvious during the time of the ancestors, and so ignoring Their existence would be super weird,

Maybe it was like, taking Megabirds existence for granted, but not doing as much to worship Them or follow what They wanted if that makes sense. Or putting the welfare of ancestors above creatures in order to justify refineries

[nimble ingot]

It would be hard to do so if the ~~creature ~~ deity is depicted (albeit vaguely) on the Day temple.
Especially with the Ceremony Worshipper spirit raising a hand to the sky.

[hushed steeple]

Well the area of worship is hidden isn't it? Same thing in Dawn.

[nimble ingot]

hidden, but not gone.
The Megabird is present, though seemingly hidden in plain sight.

[keen shore]

Like… nobody questions that They exist and They get mentioned a lot, through curses like the sky version of oh my god and stuff like trying to comfort people who have lost loved ones, they just aren’t as appreciated anymore? Not the right word but you get what I mean I hope

[hushed steeple]

Well that's what the Soviet Union tried to do, and they performed many inhumane experiments, and guess what made killer machines *looks at Krill

[frigid tinsel]

Like when religious beliefs were taken for granted that they became more secular and shrugged off rather than spiritual and integral

[keen shore]

YEAH THATS WHAT I MEAN.

[hushed steeple]

Returning to talk about spies, I sense Yeti, being so close to the light paths, and hidden up in the mountains is a megabird spy.

[violet sundial]

I need more of this so bad

[steep prawn]

wait isnt belonging like a royalty family or something

[keen shore]

I can also see postman, bc they were a manta racer, and they have similar opportunities to overhear a bunch of things and also to travel without suspicion

[uncut pond]

Could Fainting Warrior possibly be one? A lot of angst potential there

[violet sundial]

Actually, what about Sparkler parent?If they didn’t get in trouble for rummaging through the fireworks that is

[keen shore]

Oooo yeah,.. I could definitely see a lot more in wasteland and forest than the other regions, because there seems to be the most refineries in those two realms

[violet sundial]

That makes sense

[keen shore]

Lookout scout maybe, although less of a social one and more one who scouted wasteland post destruction. Also whale whisperer because of their connection to light creatures

[uncut pond]

Wait what if anxious angler is anxious because... They have something to hide /j

[hushed steeple]

What abt Rythmn crew? They are in the perfect position

[nimble ingot]

Anxious of Krill in the water, possibly.

[frigid tinsel]

I see Day Elder’s spy network as looking into power diamond production so a lot of the spies would be in Forest and Wasteland

[keen shore]

The whisperers in general would fit a lot, them having creature calls implies a heavier connection to light creatures than the average person, and quite a few (light, jellyfish and bird whisperers) are in prairie already and into helping them

[violet sundial]

God i wish the nodding emoji wasn’t a gif

[keen shore]

Man, if lightseekers and whisperers are both spies, crab whisperer is like double spy. Do you think it cancels out or makes them more powerful .

[violet sundial]

They’re crab whisperer

[sharp lichen]

I can help you on live vault, but not beta vault, what’s the difference between the two?

[uncut pond]

They're a triple agent, they have been Megabird's informant all along

[keen shore]

I’m trying to think of other people as well. I doubt there’d be much if any in the vault because it gives me the vibes of a place where very few people leave, especially due to the only way in or out being a massive gate that’s only able to open from the outside. It would be impossible to consistently travel without raising suspicion

[hushed steeple]

I beleive, Crab whisperer was assasinated

[violet sundial]

What about starlight desert? I know thats a can of worms but…

[keen shore]

Plus there’s not much reason to have spies in the vault, bc it’s basically just a massive library. Valley would have some but not nearly as much as forest and wasteland easily

[primal sierra]

Exactly! There's not a lot to work with bc most of the vault is set in the stone-- So I had to get creative

[keen shore]

Oh true that makes sense, although I still don’t know if you’d be able to make consistent travels through it without looking weird. It doesn’t look like a place that’s traveled often if that makes sense, there’s no road markers or anything

[primal sierra]

Plus there's the fight scene between Vault Elder (live) and Vault Elder (beta)....

[keen shore]

I can see memory whisperer sending like… messenger mantas, especially bc of the cosmic manta in desert, but in terms of actual people traveling constantly, I don’t know

[sharp lichen]

The fight scene? What- as far as I know you don’t fight anyone in Vault in both beta and live

[violet sundial]

Vault elder fights you by throwing their shoe at you until you die 😍

[frigid tinsel]

Vault Elder is definitely a magician if you wanna consider fighting

[keen shore]

I don’t think isle would have any spies, since it was seemingly deserted before the other realms and because… I mean it’s isle. Them and prairie are on the same team here. Although spies who came from isle might be…, ESPECIALLY GRATITUDE NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT

[primal sierra]

Ah yeah-- Long story short, my fic's about a blind sky kid and her emotional support gay trying to bring the elders back to orbit-- But they end up uncovering mysteries surrounding the event that blew up the kingdom and the king himself

[sharp lichen]

Yeah, I’ve made a spirit violence document to help with this

[violet sundial]

ALSO
If the wind paths is more of an underground network so to speak (not literally)
Does this make Hidenseek Pioneer in the know about this

[frigid tinsel]

Hide & Seek Pioneer seems too young to be trusted as a spy but the bald spirit who was with them in their spirit memories could be

[primal sierra]

I'd love some extra pointers on how the king would fight though... I know he throws rocks like the guys who nearly landed me in the emergency room, but other than that I got nothin-

[violet sundial]

Honestly hidenseek pioneer is a perfect fit cus i hc the chibi mask they wear has the same effect it has on Skykids, so they’re actually like. How they were before the short dress model was introduced but they can disguise themselves

[sharp lichen]

In Concept Art, they were shown to have a large spear

But I don’t really imagine the King as someone to fight

[keen shore]

I’m not sure why I didn’t think of Gratitude before to be honest. Especially because some of them, like saluting protector and provoking performer, seem almost to be like… blessing the spots they’re in, or performing some kind of ceremony to help out the creature spirits there.

[primal sierra]

I thought that was confirmed as fanart?

[steep prawn]

wont be the rhythm doing the same consider they have mask especially of birds plus they have the beeg bird too

[keen shore]

What’s the gratitude spirit in wasteland I keep forgetting their names. Everyone hates their memory

[violet sundial]

Saluting Protector

[hushed steeple]

How did the elders deal with spies tough?

[keen shore]

Ideally they wouldn’t know

[violet sundial]

Imagine like
Pioneer pretends to be a lost kid and then when some workers at the facility show up and they take off the mask and knock them unconscious with their bare fists

[frigid tinsel]

(I’m looking for more but this comes to mind)

[violet sundial]

Please delete this

[steep prawn]

The king over all posture and size would be overwhelming already

[violet sundial]

Shrimp back

OH ALSO Apologetic Lumberjack appeared in the wind paths too

[frigid tinsel]

Prairie Elder’s spy network was found out in my ficverse

[steep prawn]

they regretted their actions and wanted to help and atone for what they did that’s sweet

[mild valve]

😔 I found so interesting.why delet? This channels topic is spoiler? 😑 I think you are too strikt

[steep prawn]

it aint released on live yet and beta stuff aren’t allowed here

[violet sundial]

Yeah. I don’t make the rules
But thems the rules

[mild valve]

Unfortunately there is no lore channel in beta

[violet sundial]

Wait until it comes to live ig

[frigid tinsel]

#beta-discussion

[mild valve]

You speculating all about story of this game with the knowledge of beta.... Nevermind. It's not worth..

[uncut pond]

The rules literally say beta stuff isn't allowed

[violet sundial]

I think the ppl who used “beta” meant Light Awaits Sky not the current beta

[frigid tinsel]

The “spoilers” in the channel name refers to Eden and the Office. We don’t censor that here. Beta content is not permitted outside of the beta category.
Light Awaits, the beta pre-release of the game, is allowed here. That’s not to be confused with Beta that is currently being tested alongside Live

[mild valve]

Ok ok I am out. You can stop. I understand. 😑

[violet sundial]

You’re welcome to discuss stuff with us, just not stuff that hasn’t seen a live release yet

[wheat cypress]

I have discussed it with my father and he suggests that we use Chibis per second as our primary unit of speed with each chibi measuring 27 inches

[steep prawn]

do you count the standard spirits of prairie i cant stop thinking how they operate to secure a better route and life for the Light Creatures

just imagine that the Sanctuary spirits would gather and wait for the creatures until the go signal is given by the Flight crew

You can see the Whisperers checking they’re individual creature if they’re perfectly fine

while the Talented Builder along with people who can do the same works on boats that can transport supplies and equipment so they can continue their operation without worrying

Lively Navigator giving signals on where to go for the boats so they won’t be any chaos

Plus Flight Guide leading everyone

i cant stop thinking about Bearhug Hermit since they have a lot of supplies of all kinds and near a a Wind Tunnel while being in a place of where its not crowded with people

[wheat cypress]

Also my math might be wrong but I also calculated that Sky kids fly 18 miles an hour, a bit slower than your average car on a town road

It would be cool to try and find the earth bird equivalent of a Sky kid, speed wise

[keen shore]

There’s a theory floating around that I believe in, that’s basically like the spirits you buy elder masks from have a specific connection to the elders and similar personality lines that you can trace back… I like to think it’s true for apologetic lumberjack bc they have rain’s mask, and that this is an extension of that

[steep prawn]

oh this is interesting!

[keen shore]

Yeah! It does have a bit of evidence behind them, because the personalities with each spirit and elder combo are very similar, and fainting warrior and dusk have the same wound for example… however to be honest it’s more of a headcanon than anything else. I really like it

It’s really hard to figure out for valley, but I’m like 80% sure it’s the spirit you get the maskless face from (I forgot their name…) because they resemble the twins the most. The fact that there’s two mask spirits also fits for valley now that I think abt it,

WAIT NO IM CHECKING AND THERES 3 ?? Which one do I pick for this. The base game valley spirits all seem to have such similar personalities that it’s hard, not to mention none of them is an exact match to sunset. I have to wonder If one is like, their casual mask face, and the other two are ones they wear during sports

Both backflip and bow have what I’m 90% sure is the elder symbol on their mask foreheads, so that’s what I’m guessing is true. Victor does not have it but since they have the maskless face that might just be a consequence of that.

If there’s one spirit with an elder mask for each twin, then I wonder who’s who…

[frigid tinsel]

Maybe the distinction doesn’t matter if they’re one and in the same or considered equals that their differences are minor

[keen shore]

That’s what I’m thinking too! Backflipping Champion and Bowing Medalist… even their names are so similar that I doubt the distinction really matters

[waxen quest]

Also their designs too. Spiky hair going back, crown masks with horns, and their bodies are the same I think

[bronze arch]

Elders, Season Guides, Rose, and Little Prince but not the Void of Shattering but it's incorrect quotes.

[waxen quest]

What

[keen shore]

The only thing I don’t like about my theory is that… for most of the elders it’s so good and helps us understand them. And then there’s champion and medalist and you can barely get any info out of them…

ALTHOUGH IT MAKES ME WONDER… backflip is riding a manta in their memory right? Imagining one of the twins being really into racing mantas

[waxen quest]

One likes going up, the first thing the other does- goes down

[slim plume]

The races seem to be catered to each Twins' preference (one race is mostly flying and the other is mostly sliding. We can assume that 'Set' was the one who prefered sliding because of their statue near the Dreams section). Perhaps Backflip is closer to 'Sun'

[frigid tinsel]

are both of those spirits in the Citadel? or iirc Champion is in the coliseium?

[waxen quest]

Backflip at citadel, medalist at arena

[graceful oasis]

……Epic Boat racing guys, Epic boat racing.

[waxen quest]

Well, krill are confirmed as corrupted, and animal experiments are a thing in sky, so it's pretty much confirmed, tho we don't know which animal they are exactly

Yeah, but they seem too big, King Krill maybe

There was also that concept art/frame from a trailer for animated sky movie or something where we see a light creature with one eye, so it might be them before getting krilled, tho I don't have it so ask around maybe

[nimble ingot]

In a way you can, though the game lets skykids do whatever.

[pastel brook]

the moderators are broken, but I'm here

[nimble ingot]

shush you

[pastel brook]

Oh my starry elders!

is it a bird?... is it a manta?... no, it's a krill! RUN!!!!

[waxen quest]

Dark child is a skykid drained of light, like when a krill attacks you or you stay in water for too long

[nimble ingot]

Right on the first, wrong on the second, delusional on the third.
Though you are right on the last part. 😈

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[waxen quest]

WHY ARE YOU SO ACTIVE TODAY JUST SHUSH

[nimble ingot]

Credit: Alasdair

[pastel brook]

How many kids could a skykid kid if a skykid could kid kids?

[nimble ingot]

That would be interesting.

Even if the player character themselves could not become corrupted in the game, seeing or learning of corrupted skykids would be a whole chapter of lore in of itself (hopefully)

[waxen quest]

Adult topics pls keep it out of this chat

[nimble ingot]

As many bots can bot a bot, ThatBotrock, Bob Ross wannabe
(Joking banter, glad to see the channel still lives)

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[nimble ingot]

Another Alasdair credit

[waxen quest]

If megabird can produce infinite skykids and they are all infinite light sources basically, and light burns darkness, why can't megabird just shoot a huge beam of light at Eden to uncorrupt it

You are getting fired and servers are getting rolled back to before that door was added, removing all of that stuff from all accounts + you basically remove all point in playing the game past Eden

Lowering the price of SP is the best option, they only give like a few ults at the end which isn't worth it

[nimble ingot]

Not sure, perhaps it wanted to be more precise and careful, hence a small creature that can selectively burn away the darkness would be better. Especially since a skykid can go into caves and structure, where the light cannot go.

[waxen quest]

Well, it doesn't seem to work does it? In fact, it only got worse. Shooting a huge light beam right at the epicenter of the problem however would get rid of most of it, and then sending down a few skids to remove what's remaining

[sharp lichen]

I feel like this is an “eagles to Mordor” argument but sure. We need season of big shooty beam now

[nimble ingot]

True, though that is not what skykids would have caused. Each season would present a new challenge for skykids to overcome.
Take the wind paths as an example, not much has changed, or the forgotten ark, we were never able to restore the massive boat. Yet the goal is not to restore what was lost, but improve on what is in the present for a better future.

[waxen quest]

Death star but with light instead

[keen shore]

I mean, there’s already a huge beam of light at Eden that isn’t doing anything to uncorrupt it. That would probably be why

[waxen quest]

Improving what's broken isn't removing the cause, the cause should be the goal. And they fail miserably. Granted, they are kids, but that's even worse

[waxen quest]

Oh... Well... Ok i just want a huge laser from space to blow up the sky world, is it that big of a deal 😭 😭 😭

[scenic siren]

Maybe unpopular opinion, but I think Megan is nothing but a mere spaghetti of light, not the kind of goddess that plans and stuff
Nothing the bird does in intentional. Sky kids falling down is the result of the bird weakening from no longer receiving light from creatures (since they died a lot from darkness), thus can no longer hold the stars on
The bird has no idea what is going on
Sky kids burn darkness to eat wax inside, as in natural food chain. Accidentally cleanse darkness in the process

[sharp lichen]

Then do it. Nothing’s stopping you

[waxen quest]

Most likely true
About the skykids. They seek food at Eden too? Maybe they see it as a lot of darkness = a lot of food and then just die

[scenic siren]

I think light creatures are attracted to stronger light source. Sky kids going Eden because of that huge beam from the diamond, similar to moths drawn to light. The beam is artificial, but still light.
And also, they can sense their mother. Since the beam is right below Orbit, it's the same direction they feel their mother is (when honk), so they go

[frigid tinsel]

is the Eden beam artificial? has it always been there? if not, when was it created? was it created with good intentions or bad faith?

[waxen quest]

Yeah makes sense. They are moths after all

[scenic siren]

In Prophecy cave, the beam only appears when shiny prince reach the mountain
I think it is an artificial auto ascend device. Similar to the diamond that make beam at 8 player door, but bigger.

The difference is instead of using light from 8 humans, it use light from shiny prince to power it. To ascend the elders. Maybe
Then the ancestors realised the elders they worship destroyed their entire land just to go home, they go wild and fight back
Just my theory

[frigid tinsel]

I know

[waxen quest]

Maybe the beam was meant to be an infinite light source (love those) for the huge dark crystal, but it got overloaded and caused the calamity

[keen shore]

It’s really interesting to me how the beam is replaced with the diamond n king in this mural, I wonder what it’s supposed to mean… like, did they have to ascend stuff instead of the beam

[frigid tinsel]

when the Elders ascend spirits, a beam of light also appears from their temple. in the Switch release trailer, there is already a beam of light in Eden. I recall someone suggesting that the 8-player puzzle cutscene with the Ceremonial Worshiper was a way that ancestors could ascend themselves. so the Eden beam could've been another means of ascension

with the Eden beam being a constant source of ascension, could the reason we don't have spirits in Eden now is cos all the ones who were around for the Eden calamity were auto-ascended in a sense despite the darkness exploding everywhere?

[scenic siren]

Mentioned fight, I think the war was between the ancestors, realising they has been betrayed, and the elders trying to save their kind (in my theory I think stars can not stay out of Megan for too long or they will die, Isle elder already break and Prairie elder sleeps all day, after hundreds of year, their time is almost up)
Human fight back for revenge. Elders run. To Eden, ready to get beamed out of that planet surface.
The Eden gate is clearly to hold people from entering, and only allow stars (sky kids), whom flame has lit all the elders to enter. Human-proof (also, rock texture near the gate looks like work of Prairie elder. The gate made quickly with stone, not carefully built before. They were in hurry)
But they didn't expect creatures to join. They fly through wall and then attack and stuff and boom diamond malfunction everything blew up.

Oh, didn't notice beam was there before :o

[waxen quest]

Betrayed how?

[scenic siren]

Wall near the gate looks like rocks quickly stacked up, note carefully built wall

[scenic siren]

"Bye we're going home no more ascend for you guys, thanks for free real estate temples, the service was excellent 👌 Oh sorry we destroyed your environment trying to build that diamond and a huge ark, but we really need to go back home. Love you humans"

[waxen quest]

Eh maybe, tho the spirits don't seem too mad at Elders now, even tho the entire population of kingdom, if not the whole planet is dead

[scenic siren]

Maybe there was two side of people, one mad at them and one still worship them. Like some people still worship their deity even when they did horrible thing to human
Or maybe their spirit memories are nothing related to war, it just not shown to sky kids?

[waxen quest]

I mean when you relive base spirit memory and they go to temple they just sit there like nothing happened between them and Elders, and that's the case with literally every base spirit in the game

[red needle]

Are spirits humans that died? And Elders are not humans right?

[scenic siren]

Elders are stars

[keen shore]

Not really human, but this worlds equivalent of them, and elders are not yeah

It’s still kinda foggy how ancestor biology works, although there is some evidence to suggest they’re similar to skykids without being able to fly. Vela has a headcanon that’s probably the closest to canon

[waxen quest]

Spirits = ancestors, pretty much humans
Elders = powerfull beings, fallen stars I think

[floral grove]

Ancestors (now Spirits) and Sky Kids are all fallen stars. Not sure for Elders but they could be the same thing

[red needle]

All right. It was to clarify it, thanks.

[red needle]

…Why are they spirits if they are fallen stars? (Ancestors)

[scenic siren]

So.. if everyone love their elder 🤔 Who fight who?

[waxen quest]

Yeah u r right
Got it all mixed up

[floral grove]

They weren't always Spirits. Before they died, they were the Ancestors and they were brought into the world from falling into the kingdom as stars

[waxen quest]

Not much is known about the war, some say its between creatures and ancestors, some say its just a war. So think what you want

[frigid tinsel]

Elders are fallen stars – that was confirmed in an old livestream. skykids are fallen stars. the origin of ancestors is debatable though they are called "stars" at some point in one of the intros, but it could be metaphorically or literally

[floral grove]

Plot twist, they're rock stars

[waxen quest]

Asteroids?

[red needle]

I guess they died because of the whole thing with Eden? (They are technically still alive as spirits so that makes it less depressing.)

[scenic siren]

I think the ancestors were kind of fantasy human race with magic. They has family, parents and grandparents... their babies may not likely drop from the sky like fallen stars

[waxen quest]

Pretty much

[red needle]

Which is a little bit weird considering the fact they do not have canon genders.

But maybe they are linked in another way

[waxen quest]

They reproduce like cells, change my mind

[frigid tinsel]

the topic of ancestor reproduction makes plenty uncomfortable so tide carefully

[red needle]

Mitochondria is the Powerhouse of the Cell.

[waxen quest]

You are perfectly right

Gosh, the amount of Perfect Cell references i can make that aren't out of context is concerning

[red needle]

It reminds me of that one strange cell… Zygard’s cells? In Pokémon. For some reason.

And it makes me think about that odd picture I saw somewhere of the ruler, it looked like a child on a giant robot. Wonder what that is about.

[waxen quest]

Never heard about this one, but definetly looks interesting. The green and black color scheme is definitely a reference too

[floral grove]

That is the Prince's massive footstool

[frigid tinsel]

this Zhao concept art

[red needle]

Especially the one on the top. What is Zhao? (I should say who.)

[floral grove]

OH, what if the King here isn't supposed to be the Elder, but as the throne to the Prince?

[red needle]

It was the little prince all along.

[scenic siren]

The prince was obsessed with mecha back then

[waxen quest]

It doesn't even look like a robot, more so like a huge pillar with a bunch of stairs and a throne on top. Maybe it was supposed to be like either of the two getting confused for another visualy and then was revealed to actually be the wuehrjidkdkejrkr I can't explain you get the idea
Basically hey it's the thing 1 no it's actually thing 2 haha u blind fool

[frigid tinsel]

Tom Zhao was a previous TGC employee who made a ton of concept art for Sky during development. you can find all his Sky concepts here: https://www.tomzhao.com/sky-all
Zhao's work is pretty much the only place with confirmed prince/king material, though since this was during early concept development (around 2013 iirc) then obviously a lot has changed since then but there are still reconginable elements.

[floral grove]

Eden people confused the massive throne (the King) for their actual Elder is what you're trying to say

[toxic onyx]

I just realized something and was wondering what the theory was for it, in every single realm there is a “dressing room” at the beginning and a temple at the end, but in vault, there is neither. The lack of a temple could be explained by vault being the “last” realm where all the elders are, but eden kind of proves that it isn’t really the last realm. Plus even if that explains the temple thing, why is there no social area with a dressing room at the beginning? I may be going off on some reaching theory but what if vault was never meant to be a realm at all and was intended for a different purpose? Anyways please tell me if I’m wrong about something I’m not very good at theories

[waxen quest]

Yeah pretty much or the other way around which is less likely. Maybe when king got corrupted he merged with the throne or something and became big

[red needle]

The corrupt king is interesting. Need more canon lore.

[frigid tinsel]

possible a "dressing room" just doesn't fit in the Vault aesthetically. there is a closet before entering Eden but it's way off to the side.

[scenic siren]

I heard before Isle supposed to be "tutorial realm" and in some concepts Eden and Vault was one (Night or something)

[wheat cypress]

Hellu Lore chat uwu

[waxen quest]

Now that it's mentioned, why are there even dressing rooms there? There is no point in them being there, and it's like the randomest place they can be from the lore perspective

[toxic onyx]

Yeah I guess that could be the case, but I feel like it wouldn’t be too difficult to make a vault themed dressing room, without even changing much of the existing design- it seems a bit unlikely that they couldn’t make a vault-y dressing room

[scenic siren]

It's just for gameplay I think, like the candle cakes make no sense in lore

[frigid tinsel]

I imagine candlemaking skykids place candles down everywhere and replace the ones that melt

[floral grove]

Vault alludes to us that it is a sacred place in some way like the presence of an acolyte, and Spirits that wear long clothing and huge masks with a bunch of inscriptions. I don't see why they would put a social place there anyway

Another thing is, the Vault is meant to be inaccessible to the general public while the other realms were so it makes no sense to put a closet and a dedicated hangout spot in a place where nobody but the priests and Elders have access to

[red needle]

The sky children or spirits can move and make things around the world so that could be why there are candle cakes.

[toxic onyx]

Haha true, I just think it’s interesting that neither of those things are in vault when they are in all the other realms, even if it is for gameplay it’s a weird difference

[toxic onyx]

Yeah that makes sense I suppose

[real mortar]

is idk the lore user still around cause they mentioned something pertaining to beta so they gotta go delete it

[frigid tinsel]

you're gonnahave to point it out

[scenic siren]

Vault elder hid the closet in desperate attempt to stop kids suddenly change into chibi and dig the floor
They still get home, change mask and dig though

[red needle]

For some reason I always thought I could compare the zodiac signs and the constellations in the game. My first thought was about the twins and how they could represent the Gemini, but then they are clearly less in number and I don’t think that would make any sense.

[frigid tinsel]

fun fact: the gravestone friend constellation is Gemini

[waxen quest]

Literally have no clue about anything in beta, so no clue what you are talking about

[floral grove]

"I am going to dive headfirst into armageddon but let me play dress up first"

[red needle]

…Or maybe there is something about the zodiac signs but in a less similar way. Mh.

[scenic siren]

"Must die pretty"

[toxic onyx]

This is a reasonable statement😌

[floral grove]

Aint dying with no drip 💪💯🔥

[keen shore]

As a Gemini I don’t know what this is meant to imply and I’m still too scared to ask

HOT TAKE: there’s no social space in vault to represent the fact that every vault spirit is super shy and does not like or know what being social is

[red needle]

The twins don’t like you.

[floral grove]

This and they use telekinesis so they don't have to go near each other when handling stuff

[toxic onyx]

They’re all bookworms obviously

[waxen quest]

They escape from reality and awkward social encounters by working 24/7

[keen shore]

Also just a friendly reminder to all of you that you can turn off pings in replies :-)

[real mortar]

Will pass it on to mods then

[toxic onyx]

Oh sorry- I usually like when people ping me in replies because otherwise I don’t see the message- but I’ll remember to do that for you!

[waxen quest]

Ooor you can just tell me what it is and I will put spoiler text thingy there

[real mortar]

You already have put a spoiler there, that's not the issue, have passed it along

[waxen quest]

Oh you mean a certain feature? What's the issue then if I put a spoiler there already? Also "spoilers" is literally in the name of the chat

[real mortar]

is this why vault is so calming to me

[real mortar]

beta content doesn't belong outside beta chat spoilered or otherwise, that's the last I'll say on the matter

[keen shore]

It’s this message here. Beta content is unfortunately not allowed here, even behind a spoiler.

The spoiler in this channels name refers to things like Eden and Office, not beta. Hope this helps! Thought you might need an explanation

[nimble ingot]

Live spoilers, that is ok.
Beta content should not be shared outside of the beta channels.

[floral grove]

The reader will click on the spoiler, thinking it's about Eden or Office, and then get spoiled with things they wouldn't want to know

[keen shore]

Also Bubba, please explain what message it is in the future in order to avoid unnecessary confusion. Ty!

[real mortar]

I didn't want to draw attention to the actual message so people didn't click on the spoiler, which is why I passed it to mods

[waxen quest]

Ok its deleted thx everyone won't happen again

[waxen quest]

Or you could just tell me in DM what it is and save us all from the trouble 😬

[keen shore]

Mean to me… what did I do…. /j

[real mortar]

vault always feels like it's not a realm in the same way that the others are, like it's inside the wasteland temple so I personally feel like it's disconnected from the usual feel of isle - wasteland and even eden

[keen shore]

I had a theory that the original vault temple was pnr and when it got destroyed, it had to be moved to the highest inhabitable floor! Hence all the scholar statues there and everything

[waxen quest]

Pnr is where the skids die right?

[keen shore]

Yep!

[real mortar]

do you think there used to be mantas in pnr then before eden became corrupt
or are they just additions to vault after it was moved

[white junco]

creatures probably migrated to eden to ascend to orbit and be reborn during the days of the kingdom, & i think it still happens

[real mortar]

I guess that fits with the memories we have from shattering, I just thought they were nice to look at but explain nothing

[keen shore]

The more likely theory for why vault doesn’t really have a constrained temple is that it used to have one, but it got mostly or all destroyed. The one we’d see now would be a projection of what it used to look like in its prime, made by the elder,

OR, the entirety of vault is the temple — kinda like how I imagine the coliseum to be part of Sunset’s temple

[white junco]

i think shattering might be able to tell a story once we have more pieces of the puzzle, i wouldn’t count it out just yet

[floral grove]

How would crabs migrate to Eden though they're so small and Eden is literally a mountain

[real mortar]

waddle

[waxen quest]

You dare underestimate them?