⌨coders-cave

[blazing current]

but for the bog-standard hypertext website it works fine

[barren shale]

but once we get into the big ones even with typescript it can suck if the codebase is not architected correctly

[barren shale]

yeah htmx should be more than fine with that

[blazing current]

ive just got personal beef with js frameworks lol

[barren shale]

i build big dashboards for businesses

code base has like a 100 files at the very least

it gets pretty annoying

https://tenor.com/view/epix-image-perms-gif-20444679

[blazing current]

i was forced to build my notes site wtih react....

not fun

[blazing current]

curse yuo

[oblique inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/website-coming-soon-coming-soon-please-wait-soon-to-open-banner-gif-17179117

[blazing current]

gassandrid.xyz

i updated the layout

[oblique inlet]

(Purely to flex gif perms)

[barren shale]

to be honest the only problem with react is that it has too many ways to use it badly

other than that its okay

too many foot guns so you have to be very careful

i rarely use things like useEffect

that are easy to cause issues

i just use libraries where smarter people can use useEffect the correct way x)

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[barren shale]

no padding

https://tenor.com/view/no-bitches-gif-4978511433248186121

[oblique inlet]

One of favourite things to do to see how robust the formatting of a website is is to "sidebar" them on my ipad, becuase it essentially forces a full screen of info to be a bar slightly less than a quarter of the original size

Some websites handle it well & are still useable

Others.... not so much

[barren shale]

yeah websites should generally be usable down to 320px wide screen

[oblique inlet]

Ots often the ones with long belts of Gui and buttons not warpping or overlaying properly

*its

[barren shale]

me when you use flex instead of inline-flex

so many wrapping issues can be fixed by using inline-flex instead of flex display

but people usually just go with fit width and then they have to do flex and flex wrap

[oblique inlet]

Some websites just decide its esier to just nuke the buttons that dont fit instead of trying to wrap them properly

[blazing current]

SHUSH

ive been designing it for the compact layout

[barren shale]

also just noticed the or ctrl + - is not wrapped in single quotes

many BIG issues in this site smh my head

[blazing current]

thats why i hate react

this is an ssi for compiling markdown

like i said as well im not a web dev im a math dude

[barren shale]

your website is mathmatically not padded

[blazing current]

i may not have padding but yo mama got so much padding

im talking like 10em

[barren shale]

probably more ngl

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-matthew-mc-conaughey-wolf-of-wall-street-gif-6096185

[narrow raptor]

!rank

[feral bramble]

why is the command enabled here

[tulip quest]

do not use that command here again, just so you know

there is a place for that and this is not it

[lapis flint]

Oh, its recolored

First time seeing it

[oblique inlet]

Whose contributions are these?

[lapis flint]

Mine

[oblique inlet]

Nice

I see you’ve gotten more & more active recently

[lapis flint]

Ye

Found a job

[oblique inlet]

Nice

I’m still struggling to figure out how to GitHub properly

[lapis flint]

With what you struggle exactly?

[oblique inlet]

Contributing

The actual process thereof

[lapis flint]

Like, how to contribute to exist public repositories?

[oblique inlet]

Ye

[lapis flint]

Never does that actually, but if you have some suggestion to some repository, you making fork, making changes on branch on fork, then doing pull request to original repository, and wait when they will allow it or when they will add some comments (or just ignore)

[barren shale]

look at the issues to find some stuff you can contribute

[barren shale]

ill never have this

i commit like 500 file changes at a time

[lapis flint]

For my projects usualy doing same

[barren shale]

i own my company so im making it policy to commit once every month only

[lapis flint]

[barren shale]

53 only currently 😔

cant push that

[oblique inlet]

I’m assuming “push” means actually sending through the edited version

[barren shale]

yes

[barren shale]

you batch up the changes into a "commit" and then you push it to the "repository"

other people "pull" the commits from the "repository"

[oblique inlet]

Makes sense

[barren shale]

key words in quotes

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[blazing current]

jamie pull up maxim git graph hes cooking

[blazing current]

vscode 🤮 (im playing)

[barren shale]

depends on the vibes

sometimes nvim

sometimes notepad

[blazing current]

emacs

spacemacs 🔥

[barren shale]

never used it

i work fastest in vscode anyway

and i dont have hours of free time to setup nvim exactly how id like it to be

that's why i mostly dont use itt

[blazing current]

i feel that

i started wtih a premade config for nvim but slowly made my own over time

but it took forever for me to actually become productive

and I had to get really good at typing first

monkeytype warrior

[prisma grail]

Ngl, it makes profiles like mine look far worse where most days have activity but only in a low amount.

[lapis flint]

Doesn't matter amount

It can be different commiting style

Same amount of work can result with 10 commits or with 1

I like to commit small atomic things done, not whole related stuff, only separate things that can work out of everything other

[prisma grail]

I'm aware, I was talking about the fact that it just doesn't good with the orange color scheme.

[prisma grail]

I mostly do the same, and our amounts are actually pretty similar based on the screenshots.

[lapis flint]

You think it is more contrast?

[prisma grail]

3110 on mine, 3599 on yours.

[lapis flint]

Looking at mine, i see it same as it was green, i don't see changes

[prisma grail]

Yeah, and I think the very dark orange doesn't look nice when it has a wide spread.

[lapis flint]

Ye, looks like your commiting style more stable

[prisma grail]

Yes, I tend to regularly do small amounts of work every day when I have nothing else to do.

[wispy vale]

green was better

[prisma grail]

(I'm pretty sure they'll change it back after Halloween. )

[wispy vale]

i thought its a perma update

[barren shale]

its gonna be white for christmas

and then they gonna make the boxes larger for ur mum

i think 50% of screen width each box

[blazing current]

oh Scheiße its just number of commits? i always thought it was volume of changes.... damn

[prisma grail]

It's not just commits, it's also other actions you can do on GitHub repos like issues and PRs.

[blazing current]

yeah sorry i meant that

should have specified that I was talking specifically about commits

[lapis flint]

It is green again

[wispy vale]

Perfect , now my 2 contributions this year woud look fine

[lapis flint]

I liked orange more

[wispy vale]

next year

[lapis flint]

[barren shale]

https://tenor.com/view/wobble-pensive-emoji-pensive-ish-wobblepensive-gif-26167268

me when norange

[muted rapids]

1+1=2 but 1+1=11 too

only real coders get it

[tulip quest]

you were wrong both times, it equals 10

[muted rapids]

nuh uh

[tulip quest]

said on your computer where 1 + 1 = 10

[muted rapids]

how many equations equal 10 then >:[

[tulip quest]

huh?

an infinite number of equations?

[muted rapids]

darn

[edgy flare]

Actually, 1+1 = 3

👽

[tulip quest]

bro rlly using the alien when his comment is the only one remotely alien to the convo

[still bramble]

After3 days of trying to clone turtle objects i have remembered that python is an object oriented language and i can just make a class

But at this point i have exams so it waits

[edgy flare]

1 and 1 is 3 in coding 😨

[still bramble]

Not in coding but in binary

[tulip quest]

'1' + '1' = '11', which when translated into a number yields 11, and that is binary for 3. Thing is, concatenation is not the same operator as +. In python it is written the same, but it does something different.

[quartz pumice]

how is 01 11

ih quotes

[tulip quest]

quotes mean it is a string, and when you use the plus operator on strings it concatenates them

[edgy flare]

But 11 is 1+1 right? Therefore, in binary, 1+1 is 3

[tulip quest]

No, 11 is 1 concatenated to 1. 1 + 1 is a different thing

which is to say, either 2 or 10

[edgy flare]

Prove 1+1 ≠ 11

See?

[tulip quest]

11 = 10 + 1

[edgy flare]

You can’t

[edgy flare]

Prove that then

[tulip quest]

No, you prove that 1 + 1 = 11

my guy

[edgy flare]

Why should I?

It’s just a theory

[orchid frigate]

the fuck is this argument about

[edgy flare]

You have to disprove it

[tulip quest]

ya boi cannot do maffs 😭

[tulip quest]

the burden of proof is on the claimer in this case

and you're claiming it

[edgy flare]

Not claiming it, just hypothesizing

But I guess here we go

[tulip quest]

well, the theory is easily disproven

[orchid frigate]

do yall even remember why you are arguing

[tulip quest]

I'm being persecuted for believing numbers work properly

kinda

[edgy flare]

Addition is defined as such: one number and another, combined makes a group of 2 numbers

[tulip quest]

no, combined they make one number

[edgy flare]

Therefore 12+13= 1213

[edgy flare]

Yes

They are grouped into one number

[tulip quest]

stop trolling bro, you're talking about concatenation, not addition

[edgy flare]

One is the first integer of the sequence

[tulip quest]

addition is defined further than you've specified

[edgy flare]

Hey, let me prove it

[tulip quest]

you've just stated what part of the definition it shares with concatenation

[edgy flare]

Then why don’t you define it?

[orchid frigate]

if 1+1 then =2 if "1" + "1" then = 11

solved it for yall you dont gotta argue now

thats your definition

[edgy flare]

No, “1” + “1” = “1””1”

[orchid frigate]

not in coding it aint

[tulip quest]

this guy confusing strings with ints

[edgy flare]

👽

I don’t even code

[tulip quest]

exactly

[orchid frigate]

ion think he knows either

[tulip quest]

ah

[edgy flare]

I learn this in math class

[orchid frigate]

why the fuck are you even here then

thats like going to a steak house as a vegan

[edgy flare]

Because I used to make game in unity

[tulip quest]

because of people discussing whether 1 + 1 = 2 or 10

[edgy flare]

Or a vegan house as a steak

[tulip quest]

cause it's not 11 except when working with strings, but strings are not numbers

[orchid frigate]

tryna convert the blind

[tulip quest]

my man is trolling tho

[edgy flare]

No im not

I’m totally serious and believe 1+1 =11

1-1=

[orchid frigate]

Vegans piss me off like how can you eat without eat 90% of my diet is meat I would starve

[edgy flare]

Pretend your diet is that 10% and that’s how vegans eat

Because they don’t eat meat

[tulip quest]

11 refers to (| | | | | | | | | | |) units and 1 + 1 refers to (|) unit + (|) unit, as in (| |) units

[orchid frigate]

so potatoes and rice

[tulip quest]

(| | | | | | | | | | |) units is not (| |) units

cannot believe I have to get the tally system out 🤦‍♂️

[edgy flare]

No, 11 refers to (0) and (0) zeros being the object counted

[orchid frigate]

I guess I could make a pretty fire rice dish without meat if I shower it in seasonings

[edgy flare]

13 refers to 0 and 000

[tulip quest]

that is not how the decimal system works, neither is it any other number system

[orchid frigate]

But I would deplete from protein

[edgy flare]

I seen someone make a vegetable sandwich no joke

[orchid frigate]

that must be why every vegan is a stick person

[orchid frigate]

You can

Its not bad

but wouldnt choose it over some meat

[edgy flare]

How do you know?

[orchid frigate]

Vegans cant even get protein whey since its made from crushed bugs

[edgy flare]

It was bad

[tulip quest]

pre-kindergarten education

[orchid frigate]

they literally eat 3 grams of protein per day

[edgy flare]

Whey is from milk

[orchid frigate]

aint it from bugs?

[edgy flare]

Vegetarians can eat it but not vegans

[edgy flare]

It seems to me pretty obvious when there’s a number 13 it’s 0 and 000

And it doesn’t seem like you’ve proved that it isn’t

[tulip quest]

you do not just add a numbers digits to get the number

try writing a million

isn't it 1000000?

[edgy flare]

Yes

[tulip quest]

is it also 1?

[edgy flare]

No

0 means ten

[tulip quest]

what, 10x?

[orchid frigate]

apparently its both bugs and milk

or either

[tulip quest]

that's not just applied to zeros

[orchid frigate]

still vegans cant eat it either way

[edgy flare]

It’s 0 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000

[orchid frigate]

they gotta pretend like they say they vegan but when they go home they eat an alive cow or smt

[edgy flare]

That’s how many objects one million contains

[edgy flare]

Bugs probably just slip in there

[tulip quest]

bro

so does 0 = 0000000000 by itself?

[orchid frigate]

nah they crush crickets

since they are mostly protein

[edgy flare]

0 in the other sense represents an object

[orchid frigate]

and then process them

[edgy flare]

Probably shouldn’t have used 0 to represent them though

[tulip quest]

count to thirty in front of me please

[edgy flare]

One two three four five six seven eight nine ten twenty thirty

[tulip quest]

👽

I meant in numbers, not words

the words refer to numbers but I want the numbers

[edgy flare]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 20, 30

[tulip quest]

you missed a few

even then, in your system 30 means 3 units (000) plus 0 (0000000000) units

so you just said thirteen

[edgy flare]

No I didn’t

30 is the same as 13 though

There are different ways of writing each quantity

[tulip quest]

no, in your system 13 means 4 units

[edgy flare]

Depending on how they are displayed

[edgy flare]

Oh yeah

Wait

No

[tulip quest]

besides, I asked for thirty. Not thirteen

[edgy flare]

Ig so

[edgy flare]

I counted to 30

[tulip quest]

the word thirty, not whatever the number 30 means in your system

as in, three groups of ten

[edgy flare]

The number 30 means 😧 😧😧😧😧😧😧😧😧😧😧

Ig I shouldn’t use that as a thing either

[tulip quest]

the word thirty means (|||||||||| |||||||||| ||||||||||)

I'm asking about the word

[edgy flare]

The word thirty means 😧 😧😧😧😧😧😧😧😧😧😧

[tulip quest]

are you seven and on discord arguing about numbers?

mind you, according to this system you'd be older than 13 (4)

you need to learn to count

say it with me: "One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three, twenty-four, twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven, twenty-eight, twenty-nine, thirty"

[edgy flare]

I’m actually 90

[tulip quest]

🧢

[edgy flare]

It with me

[tulip quest]

you would not have survived school with that number system

[edgy flare]

You’re right, I thrived

[tulip quest]

https://tenor.com/view/reddit-is-down-the-hall-gif-16217874748283718723

[edgy flare]

[wheat cave]

Say hi to the new samsung galaxy

[feral bramble]

bye

[oblique inlet]

I want to get back to programming a discord bot but I can’t think of anything useful or original

[barren shale]

what programming language?

[oblique inlet]

Jus Python

[barren shale]

why python

[oblique inlet]

A. It’s my primary language
B. Discord has a lot of support & tutorials for python bot dev
C. I just enjoy it

Also considering the other languages I’ve dabbled in are Swift & paskall lmao

[barren shale]

try something more main stream

typescript/C# on the easy side

zig on the harder side

they also have a lot of tutorials

but might be better for actual projects

python starts to become very hard after as the project gets bigger

[oblique inlet]

… did you just call Python non-mainstream lmfao

[oblique inlet]

I do agree with that

It’s amazing for rapid prototyping

Not so much for long term beefy projects

[barren shale]

no i was talking about swift and pascal

[oblique inlet]

Ohhh

That makes more sense

Swift was becuase I wanted to see how apple was doing things these days, paskall becuase it was fun

[barren shale]

python is very good when all you need to do is use libraries

which can work for a discord bot

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[barren shale]

AMP is built with python

[oblique inlet]

I’m currently learning pure C, but I can extend that to C# if needbe

[barren shale]

but also if you ask @prisma grail they would tell you to not make a bot in python

[barren shale]

C# is not related to C

completely different

[oblique inlet]

Of course they are

[barren shale]

nope

[oblique inlet]

Absolutely no confusion in the naming scheme whatsoever

[barren shale]

C is related to C++

C++ is an extension of C

C# has nothing to do with C or C++

[oblique inlet]

Amazing

[barren shale]

Yes

[oblique inlet]

It’s Java & JavaScript all over again

[barren shale]

C and C++ are notoriously hard though

they let you make the worst programs ever

zig and rust are the modern C and C++, they don't let you fuck up

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[barren shale]

unless you are very bad like me x)

[oblique inlet]

C is nice in its ultra simplicity

It just… works

[barren shale]

yeah but as the program gets bigger

its hard to not write bad code

[oblique inlet]

Wether it should or not lel

[barren shale]

because you need to manage your own memory to not create memory leaks

[oblique inlet]

C is the ultimate language to write other better languages in lel

[oblique inlet]

At least historically

[barren shale]

yeah "historically" is the key word here

people are moving on

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[barren shale]

rust and zig makes it harder to write bad code

and they offer similliar performance

[oblique inlet]

Rust is pretty damn good overall

[barren shale]

rust is harder to write in but it doesnt let you write bad code

zig is a good balance

not as performant as rust though

i dont really use any of these anyway

im a web dev after all

[oblique inlet]

Iirc rust is amazing for secure code

[barren shale]

just typescripting away

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

Oh also random fact I’ve learnt x84 to a decent extent

[barren shale]

assembly is not that hard to learn

its just very hard to write

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

Assembly is an incredibly simple language at its core

[barren shale]

yeah

[oblique inlet]

Becuase it almost directly correlates to raw machine code

[barren shale]

just a dozen of instructions

[oblique inlet]

And usually it’s only one operand per line

[barren shale]

but you need like 50 lines to print Hello World on the terminal

[oblique inlet]

So you only have to parse the arguments of a given operand then move on

[barren shale]

ive done assembly before for a course

[oblique inlet]

Exactly

Nice

[barren shale]

its fun

just not really practical

[oblique inlet]

It’s fun, but not practical

[oblique inlet]

Beat me to it

[barren shale]

also this guy @orchid frigate does assembly

but he has not been here for a while

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[barren shale]

he ded

or something

[oblique inlet]

I’m tempted to write smth really complex in assembly now just to spite it

[barren shale]

enjoy

gotta go do more web deving

[oblique inlet]

7000 lines later

Cya

[knotty root]

GHOST PINGS AGAIN

[prisma grail]

I mean, it's at least a better choice than JS/TS.

[rocky kernel]

You need to create a character first. Use _start

[oblique inlet]

What is speciesbox doing in here

[barren shale]

that's a big lie

[prisma grail]

This bot will actually be the end of me with how often it does this...

[barren shale]

better than JS yes

[barren shale]

just use * instead of _

hello

[oblique inlet]

I need to think of an original idea(s) for a discord bot

[feral bramble]

lol

[prisma grail]

Even better: Just have admins fix the channel viewing perms of the bot.

[barren shale]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-4095597578532971838

[oblique inlet]

Are you suggesting the admins need to actually administrate instead of act as a juiced up mod? Preposterous!

[feral bramble]

Multiplayer farming

[oblique inlet]

Elaborate?

[prisma grail]

Believe it or not, admins already do that. xD

[oblique inlet]

Wow, never knew lmfao

[feral bramble]

Farming with people in the same channel

everyone interacting with the same plot of land

[oblique inlet]

Oh I see

Makes sense

I wonder how it’d work

[prisma grail]

The SB thing in particular seems to be ignored because I'm somehow the only person having the issue Ig.

[feral bramble]

underline

[oblique inlet]

I’d assume one main “farm” message, then everything else in the channel is commands from player,s which auto delete after sent to avoid clutter

& have the farm message update itself as often as possible without lag

[prisma grail]

Yeah, I sure hope we can at least agree on that. xD
Even beyond that though, I'd rather make a Discord bot in Python than in TS.

[barren shale]

use interactions please

[barren shale]

skill issue

[oblique inlet]

Why would I ever do that >:D

[barren shale]

because you are a smart person

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[prisma grail]

(Or C# if I want to use an actually good language.)

[barren shale]

C# currently meh

[oblique inlet]

(Time to look up how to properly use interactions)

[barren shale]

if you are going that big then go for something bigger already

like rust or zig

or maybe go

[oblique inlet]

And not my jank ahh solution currently

[oblique inlet]

You really like rust & zig

[barren shale]

i like using the right language for the right thing

C# currently has "bad" error handling which will bite you in the ass later on (like its doing to me in SB 2 now 😔 )

also ive noticed that going for a more functional approach is less prone to errors

[feral bramble]

"bad"?

[barren shale]

exceptions

[prisma grail]

Nah, I'm perfectly happy with languages like C# and don't see a meaningful point/benefit to learning a language like Rust instead, since it'd take me far more effort than just using what I already know. xD

[barren shale]

which some people think are good

but i dont see it

and most people dont see it

[feral bramble]

So ur trying to avoid using em

so you have to account for all the edge cases / stuff that goes wrong urself?

[barren shale]

attribute/value comparison and error as values in zig are soooo good

[barren shale]

no its just handling exceptions is annoying

handling errors as values feels way better

[feral bramble]

ah k

[barren shale]

that's why i just made a scuffed up implementtation of errors as values in C#

[prisma grail]

I do not dislike those nearly enough to learn a new language just to avoid them.

[barren shale]

you still need to try catch at the top level

[barren shale]

true true but that's skill issue

it takes a couple of hours of work to become decent enough at a language

but maybe im just a giga chad programmer

https://tenor.com/view/hamza-hamzah-chad-hamza-giga-gigachad-gif-23317149

(i did not make this)

after a while programming doesnt become about the language

the syntaxes are close enough to each other

the built in stuff is not that hard to learn as you go

[prisma grail]

But why give up usage of all C# specific knowledge I already have just to have slightly nicer error handling?

[barren shale]

if you know how to structure your code you are good to go

[feral bramble]

what bout the low level stuff

[barren shale]

syntaxes are still the same

[feral bramble]

oki

[barren shale]

C and C# syntaxes are almost identical

[feral bramble]

but even lower tho

[barren shale]

because its worth it on the long run

[lapis flint]

[barren shale]

we dont talk about lower than C here

[lapis flint]

Or mb i am confusing it with c++, which have scary constructions

[feral bramble]

👌

[barren shale]

or you will be banished like @orchid frigate

[feral bramble]

wait wha

[lapis flint]

What

[barren shale]

yeah that's why i said almost

[prisma grail]

I like to talk about IL though...

[rocky kernel]

You need to create a character first. Use _start

[barren shale]

that's a joke

he just hasnt been here in a while

[lapis flint]

Lmao, what

[barren shale]

[feral bramble]

guh why

[barren shale]

a lot of languages have an IL

[feral bramble]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lapis flint]

This chat is

[barren shale]

IL is cool though i can agree

[lapis flint]

C# occupied

[barren shale]

helps you understand how the code runs

i think C# is the best mid language ever

[lapis flint]

mid?

[barren shale]

yes

[lapis flint]

Wdym mid

[barren shale]

like compared to mid languages

[oblique inlet]

Time to talk about computer architecture here

[barren shale]

C# ranks first

[barren shale]

not the bestt not the worst

[lapis flint]

Ah

[prisma grail]

Well, I primarily mean the one the .net runtime deals with. xD

[barren shale]

i think C# is gonna become a top tier language soon

in the next 1-2 updates

[lapis flint]

By my opinion it is the best if we are about functionality and syntax and forget about cross platforming

[barren shale]

why would we forget about cross platform

C# is completely cross platform

works everywhere

[lapis flint]

Because java win there

With same same, but best cross platfroming

[barren shale]

please dont use the j word here

that's very offensive

[lapis flint]

A bit differently with some dances each time

[prisma grail]

Java isn't that bad.

[barren shale]

java development as a language is very slow

oracle is one of the worst big companies ever

[lapis flint]

Never tried to code in java

[oblique inlet]

Time to write a discord bot in brainfuck

[lapis flint]

Only when modded mc, and i dropped it very fast

And used mcreator instead

[lapis flint]

[prisma grail]

Ok, can't argue against Oracle being a pain.

[barren shale]

C# caught up to java and became ahead of it in a very quick timeline

[prisma grail]

0/10 tech company. xD

[barren shale]

did you know tthat oracle sql server codebase takes a couple of days to finish all testts in a SERVER FARM

and oracle sql server is the slowest sql server out there

[lapis flint]

Wtf

[prisma grail]

Wildcard type parameters for generic types in C# when? IwI

[barren shale]

yeah a guy who worked there was writing an article about it

[barren shale]

wdym wildcard type parameters

[barren shale]

they said that apparently when you add a feature it breaks like 50 tests, so you have to write more flags to make sure that it doesnt break all of these tests, and then you need to write your own 50 tests to make sure that other people dont break the code.

i wouldnt work there for a $1m salary

[prisma grail]

In Java, you can easily work with generic types in a non/less generic way by supplying wildcard types like e.g. ? or ? extends SomeActualType as type parameters.

[barren shale]

and why does generics not do the same thing

[prisma grail]

It's especially convenient when needing to interact with generic types in a Reflection context, since Reflection can't really be generic by default, making it a pain to deal with generic types.

[oblique inlet]

I’m tempted to see just how bad of a program I can write in C before it refuses it

[prisma grail]

Wdym?

[oblique inlet]

Also monthly reminder to nerve use Python eval() function

[barren shale]

Why cant you <T> in generics

[prisma grail]

Python has eval too?

[barren shale]

C lets you write bad programs

[prisma grail]

You'd then need the method using the generic type to also be generic.

[barren shale]

you can write a program that crashes your PC in C

C doesnt care

C will jsut watch you cry

[prisma grail]

Which you literally cannot do in e.g. my Reflection example.

[lapis flint]

Like IEnumerable cast, but with List collection type for example

And other types by same way

[barren shale]

can isee the reflection example

[lapis flint]

You set base type as argument and allow all inherited to be put in

[oblique inlet]

Great.

I am going to BSOD your rig with eval() real quick

[prisma grail]

It's the main one I'm using rn since most other cases would realistically have some way for you to just make the method using the generic type generic too to circumvent the issue.

[barren shale]

that's not an example >:(

[prisma grail]

Fair, the area.

[lapis flint]

List<Type>

[barren shale]

What's up with List<Type>

[lapis flint]

You can't pass List<Type1> to List<Type2>, even if one inherited from other or if they are inherited from one parent, wildcard solves that

But generic solves that, yes, mb not good example

I remember we already had same discussion about wildcards here

And i used same wrong example

[barren shale]

yeah

like a year ago

[lapis flint]

Hello

[prisma grail]

This channel is in an eternal cycle of repeating the same programming religion wars over and over again.

[lapis flint]

[feral bramble]

is a new one gonna occur anytime soon?

[lapis flint]

Same same

[prisma grail]

(I still consider this quite an ugly solution compared to having a wildcard, especially since the specific type you're working with needs to be designed accordingly.)

[barren shale]

yeah

agreed

but

union types are coming to C#

and that might change that

[prisma grail]

I'll have to see when it actually happens!

[barren shale]

union types also makes it easier to do error as values

since you can do Type | Error

[prisma grail]

Yeah, fair, far better than needing some funky wrapper stuff.

[barren shale]

or if they implement it like typescript you can do, [Type, null] | [null, Error]

[barren shale]

you still need to wrap all exception throwing statements with a try catch sadly

i really hope they add a setting that changes that

like all thrown exceptions now actually return valeus instead of throwing

and then i'd be happy coding in C#

[lapis flint]

Oh, that typescript thing?

[barren shale]

yeah typescript is very very good

unless you are writing libraries

then its bad

and you die in creating black magic fuckery

[oblique inlet]

Average programming experience

[prisma grail]

Just use a Harmony finalizer for it!

[barren shale]

black magic fuckery

and this is one of the simple ones

[prisma grail]

(Gotta love it when my WorldBox modding experience randomly comes in clutch like that.)

[barren shale]

because this makes sense when you read it

but things like this

your head stars to hurt

[barren shale]

what's a harmony finalizer

[prisma grail]

Do you generally happen to know what Harmony is at all?

[barren shale]

no

ive seen people talk about it in modding chat

[prisma grail]

It's a library that has various tools for manipulating the IL of any C# method on runtime.

One of its patch types is a finalizer.

[barren shale]

oh

i need to look into that

if it supports latest C# versions and is stable i might use it

[prisma grail]

When you patch a method with a finalizer, it wraps the method in a try-catch automatically and calls your finalizer with any exception might've happened as a value.

With those capabilities, it's probably possible to write a single finalizer that dynamically wraps all of your methods and turns thrown exceptions into the return result.

[prisma grail]

You simply add the union return type to methods that should have errors as values, and then find these patch targets via Reflection.

[prisma grail]

Make sure to look into performance btw.

I never did since I'm forced into it anyways when modding, so idc.

[barren shale]

i was literally thinking of making a function like tthis

public static Result<T> Wrap<T>(Func<T> function)
{
  try {
    return function();
  }
  catch (Exception E) {
    return E;
  }
}

[prisma grail]

But from what I've heard, patching methods does come with some kind of performance penalty, I just don't know how meaningful it is if at all.

[barren shale]

but this would be annoying since I'd have to call it around every function

var result = Wrap(() => function(args));

[barren shale]

shouldnt really cause any issues

lots of space for overhead in making a discord bot

[prisma grail]

Yeah, that seems painful. xD

[barren shale]

the main limitations of discord bots are discord 😔

[prisma grail]

Worst case scenario, making the try-catch inserted by a source generator is always an option.

Actually, I'll be surprised if no one makes that a library, now that I think about it.

Once union types release.

Just a source generator that searches the syntax tree for methods that can return an exception type, and then wraps the contents of those methods in a try-catch.

[barren shale]

oh wait

i think there's a feature in C# that doesnt even require source generations

i need to go back and check

[prisma grail]

No need to avoid Roslyn that desperately though. :P

[hardy condor]

hello talented people

i have very decent lvl of exp in coding im hoping to make a mod that adds traits that cuse units to act different in combat coudl anyone lmk how id be able to start that im starting to f round with the example box things but first time doing any of this only me + chatgpt rn lol jus need a place to start

[feral bramble]

#🔧modding-talk
look at pins for modding guides

and additionally can search for messages there covering how to do traits

[hardy condor]

preeesh

[hardy condor]

[tulip quest]

you're rankist when you have only ~10 minutes of experience from talking 😭

@hardy condor you can come back, this man was just having a power trip cause he saw "for the first time in my life, someone else has a lower rank"

[hardy condor]

LOL i preesh u rankism is his cross to bear

[tulip quest]

he barely even been born and he chooses the dark path

[barren shale]

imagine not being in this server for the last 3 years at least

[ancient thistle]

😔

imagine

[oblique inlet]

… that made me realise smth

The code I program fora bot can also interact will manner of other apps

[barren shale]

that's why you are smart and use interactions

because interactions have higher limits

[oblique inlet]

Mhm

[barren shale]

20 requests per sec on interactions

[oblique inlet]

Time to use discord to control a Minecraft character ig

[barren shale]

and most libraries have the ability for you to wait until the amount resets if it reaches 0 before it sends a request

just look into the settings

okay so the global limit is 50 reqquests per second

but i think its 20 request per second on a specific channel

[oblique inlet]

Interesting

So you can have 2.5 channels going at full speed, wierd

[barren shale]

idk i cant find it

i only found something that said the 50 requests per seconds do not apply to interactions

but i cant find anything about the limits of interactions

so it might be infinite

the thing is you can't create an interaction from thin air

it has to be created by users

so unless you have a very specific bot you will have things outside interactions

just dont do text commands like old bots

[feral bramble]

Interaction endpoints are not bound to the bot's Global Rate Limit.
hmmm

https://discord.com/developers/docs/interactions/receiving-and-responding#endpoints
ah k

create interaction response
get original action response
edit original action response
delete original action response

and then does the same but followup message

[barren shale]

wait what

do you know what's the rate limit for interactions?

[barren shale]

i know that they dont share the same global limit as other requests

[delicate gorge]

I do not know how to code 🥰

[barren shale]

Cool

[flat valley]

Same

[oblique inlet]

Learn

[karmic cave]

Only druids can do that

[hexed grove]

Hi everyone! I'm working with a function called setCost, which takes three parameters in this format: setCost( ,"", ). However, I'm not sure what each parameter is supposed to represent. Could someone help clarify the purpose of each parameter?

[barren shale]

Not unless you tell us where you got this function from

[karmic cave]

Only druids can do that

[oblique inlet]

You’ve said that twice

[lapis flint]

[karmic cave]

Bruh my internet

[karmic cave]

Bruh my internet

[barren shale]

You’ve said that twice

[feral bramble]

https://www.answeroverflow.com/m/1123474388604428388

all i could find was js specifically being limited to 50 possibly.

So guess have to do testing to findout

[oblique inlet]

I don’t think that’s how double-sending lag glitches work bro

They don’t resend 5 mins later

Unless you restart the app

[barren shale]

My brain

Not braining

wtf

Hard to test this

[feral bramble]

i don't even know either

gonna see if i can find any other additional information with searching

[barren shale]

I guess you can send raw requests without using a library

Because all responses contains rate limit info

But libraries don’t give you access to them

I’ll check when I’m home

I think you can enable verbose logging too which might work

[feral bramble]

After searching for a while

Only answer I can get just boils down to it depends

[prisma grail]

Idk, the global rate limit is common enough that it once took AMP offline for 8 hours. 🤷‍♀️

[feral bramble]

definitely can be beyond 50 tho?
https://github.com/discord/discord-api-docs/issues/5800
The bug here was just them having a problematic rate limit configuration

[feral bramble]

wasn't that from trying to get reactions due to starboard

[prisma grail]

Made us first hit the global rate limit and then get our IP blacklisted from interacting with Discords API.

[feral bramble]

aight

[barren shale]

Seems like interactions have no limits

Which is possible

Since interactions are limited and can only be initiated from users

[prisma grail]

"interactions have no limits since they are limited" - that sure sounds very logical!

[barren shale]

no api limits since they are limited by the fact that they are initiated by users

"elaboration for stupid people (like (key))"

smh my head

[prisma grail]

[barren shale]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-what-the-spill-the-tea-disappointed-gif-14082987

[past tide]

hi coders

[quartz pumice]

-ce man!

[scenic geyser]

Don't slur bait

[lapis flint]

Hi

[barren shale]

@prisma grail i did it

i built the abomination

this

4 wrap functions 2 for action/async action and 2 for func/async func

I can use this to wrap functions that I don't have control over

like this

public static Result<Image> GetMap()
    {
        if (_map is null)
        {
            const string path = "Data/files/images/map/map.png";

            var mapResult = Result.Wrap(() => Image.Load(path)); // HERE

            if (!mapResult.IsSuccessful)
            {
                return mapResult.Error;
            }

            _map = mapResult.Value;
        }

        var cloneResult = Result.Wrap(() => _map.Clone(_ => { })); // HERE

        if (!cloneResult.IsSuccessful)
        {
            return cloneResult.Error;
        }

        return cloneResult.Value;
    }

[prisma grail]

Ah, pretty neat!

[barren shale]

https://tenor.com/view/destroy-the-sith-star-wars-it-was-said-that-you-would-destroy-the-sith-not-join-them-gif-16486235

[still bramble]

I give up python is too difficult right now
Time to go to godot for now(i think the node system will make my idea easier at least)

[steady pilot]

World box

[barren shale]

But sometimes python is the right answer ||- said no one ever||

[still bramble]

It is sometimes tho

Just not for anything im doing

Its good for making 16 bit games

[barren shale]

no

[still bramble]

Snake:

[barren shale]

dont make games with python >:(

no snek

[still bramble]

What am i supposed to use it for then

[barren shale]

data sceince and ai

[still bramble]

But what am i going to use the AI for if not for funny stuff like 2d drones or cops and robbers

[barren shale]

general rule to know if python would work for you
AI
Data Science
Less than 200 lines of code

other than that i'd go with something you can use to build a good codebase architecture so you dont suffer as the project gets big

but yeah if you can do it with around 200 lines of code you should be fine

[past tide]

hi

[barren shale]

hi

[edgy flare]

What if you want to have your code run slowly without putting in extra code?

[tulip quest]

Python is for the design process of making something, change my mind (once I get home in a few hours)

[blazing current]

i have never heard someone say this

yeah python is good for data science/ai/scripting kinda like shell but y would u make games with it 😭

[still bramble]

I looked up beginner panguage
Saw python
Saw pygame
And decided to start

[blazing current]

depends if ur learning programming or learning game dev

sure python is fine for basics but it doesnt teach you how to program well

esp becuase of how it abstracts away data types and such

[still bramble]

I mainly just wanted to make a boid simulation

[blazing current]

cook something up with c#

that should work for boids

[flat valley]

What is a boid

[still bramble]

I came to update i can now duplicate the boids at well on the window

I just need them to do boid things

[still bramble]

Basically i want to mimic birds flocking

[still bramble]

Too hard

You cant self advertise your game here(or hire playtesters)🚫⚠️

[barren shale]

C# is not any harder than python

its just different

and it gets easier with the autocomplete

[barren shale]

why wouldnt you design with other languages?

[still bramble]

Might learn it in summer vacation then

[barren shale]

also most important thing in design (if we are talking about coding) would be the architecture

project architecture in python is a pain

[wet girder]

Debatable. With C# you have to actually know more programming topics than with python because they're not hidden away

[wet girder]

This I do agree with tho

[still bramble]

I feel so dumb right now

I set it to spawn them at the mouse position so they clipped inside each other
And began interfearing either the alligment algorithm

And i was sat there trying to fix the wrong problem FOR AN HOUR

[barren shale]

what do you mean by have to know more programming topics?

[wet girder]

I mean like you don't really have to understand data types, OOP structures to write python where as for example C# forces you to think of them while you write which Imo is better when learning programming as they're integral part on how shit actually works and how to actually write functioning and clean code

[barren shale]

true

but comparetively speaking the move from python to C# is easy

moving from something like python to rust would be what I consider hard

the main hard part of programming that you will face no matter what programming language is architecture. You have to write clean code, but also not overclean, writing clean code is hard at the beginning, not writing overclean code is hard as you get better

so many useless non-zero-cost abstractions in the sb 2 codebase that i regret

i wrotte them because i was like what if i wanna do this in the future

and i havent used them yet

[blazing current]

not really tho because it leaves you with a hellscape of type issues to deal wtih

[timid field]

https://youtube.com/shorts/IGuwGIRuHaQ?si=EKVQ2f5uy0Iqhrrp

[tulip quest]

you can certainly design with other languages, but Python just makes it super easy to not have to worry about small annoyances like assignment of memory, typing and otherwise. Compared to C# where you have to add a type to every output, worry about lists being typed improperly and have to use workaround techniques to get arrays of arrays, I find it easier myself to design in Python.

[tulip quest]

sometimes you want typing, sometimes you don't. I use Python for prototyping the general layout of an abstract system (like if I'm programming a calculator for a game I'll be able to figure out what datatypes I need to store the different things I'm working with, and what functions I'll need to use to manipulate them) but if you're intending on making a more easily designed project you don't necessarily need to prototype it in another language.

[blazing current]

i understand that for simple projects but once you scale up i find that my program and its python equivelant would look nothing alike, even from a blueprint pseudocode standpoint

[barren shale]

what do you mean by design

[lapis flint]

Thats why python bad, its syntax way different from other languages, but its usage very limited, so learning other languages when you will need will be harder after python

In c# you don't need to add type to every output, user var instead if you want, but having types makes it easier to debug, because you know whats happening from first look

Python is spaghetti language

Ye, faster to make something

But worse if you want to extend and maintain

[tulip quest]

By "design" I mean design a process that takes care of a problem, not a program layout to be directly translated to another language

[tulip quest]

exactly, it's not something for permanent programs but instead for quickly importing essential features and putting together a simple proof-of-concept

[barren shale]

but if youre designing something big

you lose the benefit of python really quickly

as i said more than 200 lines it starts to slow you down

[tulip quest]

yep, but if you're designing something really complicated you don't need to worry about little problems with choice-of-program as much

designing

if you're actually implementing it you want something more applicable

[barren shale]

idk the difference between pythons and C# is not that big when writing the code

its just not worth to stick to python at least for me

i did a lot of python for AI stuff but when i tried to use it for other stuff it didnt go very good

writing stuff using a more strict language has more benefits to me even when its just a small design

[tulip quest]

Python is a mathematician's language, to put it one way

[barren shale]

yeah python is built for data science and ai

its built for you to import libraries and use functions

[lapis flint]

Nah, it wasn't built for ai

But uses for it now

[barren shale]

it wasnt built for ai

now its being built for ai tho

also most of ai is data science

also whoever decided that python should use indentation sucks

its so annoying when you copy a piece of python code and then its 2 space indented when your code is 4 space indented

and then you have to fix it

[tulip quest]

wait, 2 space indented? I didn't know that was possible with Python! (Not that it should be...)

[lapis flint]

Oh

[tulip quest]

let's be real, I never would've learnt Python when I was younger if it used brackets

Python should have a bracket version though

[barren shale]

it does

[barren shale]

brackets are way superior though

[tulip quest]

agreed, it just made the language more approachable as a non-programmer

[barren shale]

it makes scopes way more obvious and less confusing

[feral bramble]

inconsistent indentation time lets goooo

[tulip quest]

someone gotta take an L or the next generation will not know how to program I guess

[feral bramble]

As long as the block stays the same indentation python is fine with whatever amount

[barren shale]

yeah but

i cant have my code looking like that >:(

[feral bramble]

Aight gonna code something with god awful indentations :P

[barren shale]

blocked

[oblique inlet]

5 space indentation just to screw over everyone

[still bramble]

perfection

[oblique inlet]

Seems legit

[still bramble]

IT WORKS

IT FINALLY WORKS

(Followed a tutorial tho but because it was 5 godot versions ago i still had to read 300 lines of documentation)

I CAN EVEN SEND IT AS AN EXE

I am never touching the boids topic again

Time to try to make a fun game tomorrow

[karmic cave]

yay

so

what is it? :0

[still bramble]

That was the failed version of boids algorithm

Because i forgot to do the -= instead of =

And also the tilemaplayer had no collision

[blazing current]

idk if you really start taking design seriously i would just use LaTeX pseudocode or some diagram software like mermaid for UML diagrams

[tulip quest]

just use whatever, I'm just saying that while Python is bad performance-wise and it's bad for actually making a large project it's still good for design (even if it's not the best)

[blazing current]

i love python and i use it a lot for my work but i just disagree on using it for design

but hey every man to their own

[quartz pumice]

what is that

[knotty root]

bro does not know what a exe is

[peak badge]

Hey I need help with some code for my game. Please hit my friend up on discord: lynxiboii

[tulip quest]

#⌨coders-cave message

[ruby drift]

Hello

I'm new

😛

[edgy flare]

Hi new

😛

[ruby drift]

I'm nota understand English very good

I'm from Argentina

Where you from?

[edgy flare]

USA RAHHH 🦅🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[ruby drift]

Oh wow

Can you help me?

[edgy flare]

Idk maybe

Maybe not

[ruby drift]

Que

Perdon no entiedo

Sorry I'm not understand

[oblique inlet]

@ruby drift just a heads up this is a specialised chat for programming & programming related topics, the main chat is over at #🌎general or for Wb stuff #🌋worldbox-chat

[ruby drift]

Ehhh

[tulip quest]

I have no idea why this single channel out of all the servers I'm in has random people start talking without looking at the name of the channel to stop and think about what is meant to be discussed within

it has happened on numerous occasions

[oblique inlet]

Ik, like what’s the connection?

Do they see “cave” & just assume it’s some sort of quieter sub-general?

[tulip quest]

maybe they just see the keyboard icon to the left of the name

it's still so weird though

[oblique inlet]

Oh hell nah I’m cooked #🌎general message

(5k + ping lmao )

[quartz pumice]

i am linux user what is exe

lmao

[feral bramble]

something u run with wine :P

[edgy flare]

Brine

[spark pollen]

Hello

@uncut frigate 🪓

[uncut frigate]

What ideology is this place

[rancid knot]

?

[lapis flint]

No ideology, just coding

[uncut frigate]

Anarchism...

(Your pfp is also a bandit lol)

[swift elm]

Hello fellow programmers

[barren shale]

annual check of how much ram .net new version will use on sb 2

before

this is production btw

boooooo

no difference

between .net 7 and 8 there was like a 100MB diifference

[wet girder]

I've heard .net 9 made some great optimizations for LINQ tho

https://medium.com/c-sharp-programming/net-9-linq-performance-improvements-457ee3481e0d

[barren shale]

yeah linq gets better every update

sometimes its faster than the normal way of doing things

because the normal way is not the fastest way most of the times

[quartz pumice]

Crazy that you can make a program in Linux that's 2 kilobytes big lmao

Meanwhile .net

[barren shale]

This has a lot of libraries

Idk why it runs bad on linux

I might not be running it correctly

On windows with debugger it only takes 40mb of ram

[quartz pumice]

That's still a lot 😭

[quartz pumice]

yeah program for linux is 1745 bytes large

i forgor how large a killobyte is but knowing if its the size of a page then my program is smaller than a kilobyte lol

and thats with fuckin everything

all the libaries jammed int oit

ls -l main
-rwxr-xr-x 1 higanbana higanbana 4320 Nov 13 19:09 main

no libs

asm

thats less than a kiilobytes

athats 8 kilobytes

lmao

comparing the size of a program that doesnt even hello world to .net is funny

[barren shale]

the price you have to pay for not having to rebuild your app for everything

also stuff like ls is a very small lifespan program

you dont care about stuff like memory

comparing apples to oranges

[quartz pumice]

I dont think it even uses

memory

that isnt stack

bruh it uses malloc

[feral bramble]

dafaq

[coral gorge]

blumiholls spotted in coders cave

verify your purpose

[trim heart]

POV: JavaScript

[karmic cave]

https://tenor.com/view/freak-freaky-cat-level-infinity-gif-15287917168381984815

[quartz pumice]

Freaky

[opaque ingot]

Erm... what the C#

[tulip quest]

@brave salmon free mod points

[brave salmon]

Thx, lmk if they continue

[tulip quest]

alr, no problem

just didn't want any of that stuff in this server

[tulip quest]

one more thing, they've sent more of the same message in other channels

[brave salmon]

Oh okay lemme go look

[tulip quest]

#🎲game-room message #🌋worldbox-chat message and one in memes that got deleted

[brave salmon]

Yeah another mod dealt with it

[tulip quest]

alr, good to hear

[brave salmon]

Thanks though

Preciate it

[tulip quest]

no problem

[edgy flare]

What did happen

[whole bough]

wer can I transform a image into a map???

[coral gorge]

@humble wasp thoughts on this message btw?

[prisma grail]

#🔁map-conversion
Also, for general help with WorldBox, please go to #🚑help-chat. This channel is only for programmers and unrelated to the game.

[prisma grail]

Thoughts on not just adding further messages that don't fit the chat because one person did it?

[coral gorge]

i knew you would say that

[prisma grail]

1. Stop misusing the channel, this is my last verbal for this.
2. If you take issue with how Friday is moderating, say so towards an admin in DMs instead of trying to incite drama publicly.

[blazing current]

3. you both sound like huge nerds and are making a huge deal out of the most basic thing

[blazing current]

make sure to --force and do it on a friday

[barren shale]

sadly no longer works as everyone uses protection on the main branch

https://tenor.com/view/wobble-pensive-emoji-pensive-ish-wobblepensive-gif-26167268

[blazing current]

RUH

also i still dont have image perms....

[barren shale]

i wonder why they'd do that

[blazing current]

cant post my lit rice

[barren shale]

rice can never be lit

[blazing current]

mines pretty good for macos

[barren shale]

ive ate rice 80% days of my life

[blazing current]

do you live in asia

[barren shale]

middle east

same thing

[blazing current]

what kinda rice yall got there

[barren shale]

all kinds

white

brown

[blazing current]

i fw basmati rice

yall got it

[barren shale]

i dont cook

so i wouldnt know

[blazing current]

i cook 🔥 fire software

[barren shale]

same

literally

software that will make your computer on fire

[blazing current]

chat gpt wil cook food for me

[blazing current]

which u can then use to grill

[barren shale]

good plan

will do

[blazing current]

Yall got internships secured for the summer ⁉️

[coral gorge]

@prisma grail ma'am they might be misusing the channel i think

[feral bramble]

you don't even talk ere...

[rose pawn]

hello

[blazing current]

you sound fun at parties

bro definetly goes to the principles office when he sees people vaping in the bathroom

[prisma grail]

This goes both for you and Jarz: Either stop arguing about this or take it to DMs. Jarz has already been warned, so there's no need to add fuel to the fire. Please move on from this topic.

Anyways, has anyone here by any chance developed something with the YouTrack API before? If yes, I'd be curious to hear y'all's opinion on it. xD

[tulip quest]

spambot advertising... things

[blazing current]

smh i thought this was on topic 🤷‍♂️

cs - related

anyways im working on fine tuning ollama for function calling does anyone know good tooling for this

[wet girder]

https://tenor.com/view/peekaboo-baby-cute-hide-adorable-gif-16509815

[prisma grail]

Oh, that was fine, I was only referring to your reply to him.
To personally answer your question, I personally don't have an internship because I've already got a more permanent software development job. xD

[mild prawn]

oh shit mb i thought this was general mb yall

[blazing current]

maybe one day after uni

im only second year

I have a good pipeline to possibly getting an internship at ames research center for next summer but i gotta work my ass off

[jolly field]

What’s your opinion on it?