dnd-discussion

[limber trail]

I'm assuming magic items are pushing your DC to 20+ because if they're not then none of this even works

[knotty vine]

i wanna make a dnd thing level 20 where they have to take down szass

[limber trail]

or well actually no you can force a failure

actually no you cannot because you can't roll a 0 on a dice roll

[knotty vine]

until he just says nah with not 3 but his 5 LR

[mighty wharf]

Innate counterspells are more of an issue I think

[limber trail]

Did you look at bahamut's stat block? because he doesn't have counterspell I'm realizing

[knotty vine]

he can also just turn into any humanoid/beast as a bonus action

[mighty wharf]

Uh which one?

[limber trail]

the official one from Fizban's Treasury of Tragons

[mighty wharf]

It's very probable the one I found was homebrew

[limber trail]

What one are you using?

[knotty vine]

there isnt a actual bahamut stat block only the aspect

[mighty wharf]

Idk one I found online which was probably homebrew

[knotty vine]

the strongest lich of today vs the strongest lich in history

[mighty wharf]

What if you had a simulacrum for 2 convergent futures per turn?

Does that work? Maybe idk simulacrum that well

[knotty vine]

you can only have one simuacrum per creature

[limber trail]

there's also another issue with this which is that you need to burn five legendary resistances and then get your combo off. I'm giving the win to him.

He just wins on time more likely than not - he can kill you before you can cause real problems for him

[mighty wharf]

Theoretically you could hide in a wall of force though while burning through resistances by continuously casting tashas and forcing failures to burn them out.

[knotty vine]

i think your also forgetting that bahamut is often accompanied by seven ancient gold dragons who favor disguising themselves as canaries.

[mighty wharf]

I guess that requires two concentration spells, you'd need to drop concentration on wall of force which uses your mote, and you wouldn't be able to make another kne for sickening radiance

[knotty vine]

which are the strongest of the anicent dragons besides there greatwyrm counter part

[mighty wharf]

We're just talking about bahamut here

[knotty vine]

i still doubt the mircowave thing would work here

[limber trail]

I think that's a great plan that relies on him rolling a lot of natural 1s

if it goes perfectly maybe you kill him

[knotty vine]

Saving Throws CON +18, INT +16, WIS +18, CHA +19

his worse save is a +10 that being strength

[mighty wharf]

Convergent future is after modifiers though. You can make him roll 1 less than the dc required to save. If modifiers were applied after it'd be literally useless.

[knotty vine]

oh wait no its dex at +4

[mighty wharf]

I guess you get two of those even with a simulacrum so he'd succeed the sickening radiance ones...

That's the issue

[knotty vine]

true

[limber trail]

It's after modifiers and before success/failure is determined. Legendary Resistances are determined after success/failure is determined.

[knotty vine]

legendary resistance just kinda overrides everything

[limber trail]

LRs override Convergent Failure and although yes you can eventually wear him down, you're skipping over a very big part of the game here which is dropping those LRs

Even if you wall of force for immunity, he can just leave

[mighty wharf]

BAHAMUT LEAVING LMAO

[limber trail]

You also can't concentrate on wall of force AND hideous laughter AND sickening radiance

[mighty wharf]

Yeah I realized that

Nor can you make him fail all 3 saves

[knotty vine]

he can just turn into a humanoid that can teleport and teleport out

[limber trail]

If you make yourself invincible he's not just gonna stand there and politely wait for you to die. He's gonna fly up, wait for you to stop, and then he's gonna go back and kill you

"Leaving" is maybe unfair wording. How it goes is he flies 300ft up, waits for you to drop your spells, and then uses his breath weapon and goes back into combat

[mighty wharf]

Yeah I knew what you meant

At first I thought you meant like planar travel out of there but yeah he'd just wait.

After flying.

If only he wasn't so stupidly big, you could fit him in a microwave and just kill him that way

WAAAAAAIT POLYMORPH?!

Can you wall of force, then polymorph him, then recast wall of force on him, get a mote with sickening radiance and cook him as usual?!

[humble copper]

Feels so difficult to join any decent games

[mighty wharf]

Wait does he have shapechange

[knotty vine]

It’s a bit different then poly morph

[limber trail]

Again, he just saves

And various concentration related issues

[tall forge]

Yknow

[mighty wharf]

Wait is polymorph concentration?

[tall forge]

Otilukes resilient sphere right

[mighty wharf]

Ew polymorph is concentration, gross

[tall forge]

Then use psychic lance

[tall forge]

it sorta has to be thats hard cc

[mighty wharf]

Nah he's a gargantuan dragon, we need to polymorph him to a smaller size though so we can wall of force him or use the sphere, either should work

[tall forge]

Use multiple wall of forces if possible

[mighty wharf]

How big is gargantuan? How many would it take?

[bronze canopy]

2 walls of force

[tall forge]

Depends on the creature

[bronze canopy]

By making 2 half-spheres with 2 instances of the spell, you can catch most gargantuan creatures unless the DM decides they’re bigger

[tall forge]

20x20 or more

[mighty wharf]

I have an idea. A ring of spell storing. With polymorph. Convergent future to make him fail the save, give it to a tiny servant, have them be the concentration target. Mote of sickening radiance, give it to another tiny servant, bypasses concentetion. Then, wall of force the bahamut. That's the plan once you burn through legendary resistance, the only problem is not dying while doing it.

[tall forge]

Legendary resistance

[mighty wharf]

I mentioned that was the problem, so how do we burn through it?

[tall forge]

You usually dont, is the actual answer

[rain grotto]

man. learning that the 2024 Command spell sucks now is bad, but learning it whilst being digested by a mimic sucks even worse

[burnt valley]

You dont engage with it

[tall forge]

It takes at least 3 rounds of 1 caster hitting them with save or sucks

In which you would usually just have won anyways if you did damage

[mighty wharf]

It's 5, tashas hideous laughter was my idea and having a simulacrum for 2 convergent futures to force the resistances

Maybe rope trick for staying safe popping in and out but he can just ready an action to mess you up

[tall forge]

This is why i ban chronurgy 😔

[mighty wharf]

I mean simulacrum copies statistics, does that work?

[tall forge]

It works yeah

[mighty wharf]

LOL

[tall forge]

But also, a smart dm could still screw you over

Or initiative, more accurately, will screw you over

[mighty wharf]

And he's not immune to incapacitated so you could just beat him to death eventually 💀

[burnt valley]

wanna do something really funny with convergent future? shapechange into an exhaustion immune statblock like duergar despot

[mighty wharf]

If he decides to not use a legendary resistance

[burnt valley]

spam convergent future for no drawbacks

[tall forge]

You cant do that, no

[mighty wharf]

That was the plan.

[tall forge]

You cant use subclass abilities while shapechanged

[mighty wharf]

You'd use Magic Jar

[burnt valley]

alert + gift of alacrity + int bonus should still add up

[tall forge]

Not what i meant

Say you try and hit me with a save or suck

[mighty wharf]

This is all assuming magic jar+convergent future combo

[burnt valley]

2024?

[tall forge]

I auto failed, so i legend res to auto succeed

[tall forge]

No thats just all rules, otherwise polymorph would be insane

[mighty wharf]

We're ruling 2014 for the magic jar+convergent future combo

[tall forge]

Then on my turn, i just make the saving throw normally and im fine

[mighty wharf]

None of this works without it.

[burnt valley]

oh uhh magic jar became bad in 2024, it no longer carry over the creature's resistances n stuff only str,dex and con

[tall forge]

After your other dude auto hits me

[mighty wharf]

That is why I said 2014 ruleset

[tall forge]

Meaning for the price of 1 legend res, i beat 2 auto fails

[jolly agate]

Now that i think abt it

The events of BG3, are they canon on dnd?

[tall forge]

No

Bg3 is set in the forgotten realms

But its not vice versa

[naive cedar]

Sort of

[jolly agate]

Do any of the charcters exist on dnd?, i mean. Elminster is real and the rest, but i mean the party

[naive cedar]

The heroes of faerun book have canonised the party

[frosty garden]

I mean the events yes, but since BG3 has so many routes they would chose a linear path. Also this means Zariel stayed in Avernus as canon

[tall forge]

They made a book about bg3 stuff, which is a game about forgotten realms

[sleek cloud]

Karlach my beloved

[tall forge]

So, bg3 isnt cannon
The book that uses bg3 stuff is

[jolly agate]

Alr now im SO confused

[naive cedar]

It’s canon lol

The specific stuff rhat the game breaks canon with isn’t canon but the events themselves broadly (and vaguely) are

[frosty garden]

Party formation > Deals with mindflayer threat basically just do that as canon until they confirm what they did

[jolly agate]

So it's canon but it's not canon but it's canon but it's not canon but it's-

[naive cedar]

Like if bg3 contradicts something in the PHB or something, rhats not canon

[tall forge]

It also contradicts other adventure modules/lore, so thats also not cannon

[frosty garden]

I like to assume the oneshots that the Voice Actors did as canon

That group is chaotic without tav

[knotty pasture]

Cherry picked canon events

[naive cedar]

If you think this is bad try being a Star Trek fan…lol

[tall forge]

Basically

Bg3 is a video game, so it took liberties. Theres a lot of small things that dont fit the cannon of FR

so they retold the story in a different book to fit cannon better

[jolly agate]

OOOOOHHHH

[frosty garden]

Is the book worth it?

[jolly agate]

Ye i need that book, i also need the cookbook

[naive cedar]

The astarion book also tried to clear up some of the inconsistent dates

[tall forge]

Gale becoming a god in his end? Not cannon

[naive cedar]

Although there’s stuff in the Astarion book which actively contradicts game canon…

[jolly agate]

Damn Astarion stealing all the show, and Wyll dead in a corner

(as it should cuz yk, Astarion)

[naive cedar]

Karlach and Astarion seem to be the fan favourites

[tall forge]

The sad ones yeah

[naive cedar]

I’m not sad 😭

[tall forge]

No, they are the sad characters

[naive cedar]

OHHH my bad!

[frosty garden]

I need more Shadowheart but she's voicing a lot of games now

[tall forge]

They get tragic endings

[naive cedar]

But yeah, they have the saddest stories

I’m pretty sure they’re going to canonise the more bittersweet endings for them though

[tall forge]

Will never forget seeing astarion cry in the darkness as the sun burns him, seperating him from the group

Astarion writer evil fr….

[naive cedar]

I wish you could follow him then honestly

Although he shows up again later

[frosty garden]

I wish we had a tavern scene at the end, kind of like the avengers ending where they eat schwarma

[tall forge]

Its still pretty messed up

Sorta clashes with the whole vibe id say

[naive cedar]

That’s the problem when six different people are writing the same ending lol

[hot marlin]

I've never ended a campaign where the PCs liked each other enough to go together to a tavern just to hang out

By the end there always was too much baggage, and PCs always ended up cutting ties, or at least setting some distance

[severe rampart]

Internal conflict within the party?

[hot marlin]

Spend years on the road with people in high-stakes situation, some conflict is bound to emerge

[frosty garden]

Larian said the game takes place over the course of like 6-8 months I believe

[hot marlin]

Still a lot

Especially for people who, once the threat is ended, have no real reason to be a group. Like, the only ones who really become friends are Karlach and Wyll.

[frosty garden]

I also find it fascinating 7 years after bg3 we get honor among thieves

[hot marlin]

Seven years?

[hidden spindle]

Has it been that long?

[woven flint]

its only been like... 3 years since BG3??

[crimson gulch]

baulders gate 3 1492 DR, Honor among theives 1499 DR

in universe years

[severe rampart]

Been taking notes of Curse of Strahd, it's certainly very interesting, now, ||what the hell do the hags have to do with anything? it feels so random there's just an old bonegrinder in barovia filled with hags|| (Spoilers for CoS)

[crimson gulch]

thats wild, my parties are allways forged in steel and blood by the end, Epiloge weddings are quite common in my games

[jovial shadow]

A gargantuan takes up a 20x20ft space. So any spell that fits those dimension will affect them. If I am reading the PHB correctly

[marble lion]

If the target is not bigger than about 45x45 feet, you require 6 blocks unless its so small you can lock it into a 4sided pyramid

If the target is bigger than 40x40ft, the target could slip through cracks between spells

That was force cage though, how big is wall of force in comparison?

[jovial shadow]

no creature is larger than 20 x 20 on a map grid, even if they are by description.

[marble lion]

Then they are bigger on the map grid to me

Im not letting people lock up a 80 by 80ft creature in a force cage cheese

Is this a 2024 thing

[burnt valley]

RAW, it always has been

[marble lion]

This topic came up a while ago and i loosely remember there being a different text on it

That stated they dont have to be 20ft

[hot marlin]

Mine often end up killing each other in the epilogue.

They all have different political sensibilities and allegiences. Their bonds don't matter in the face of that.

[potent vector]

Tbh I dislike there isn't optional rules for bigger enemies, but lots of 3rd party content makes it clear at that point multi targetable bosses are needed at that size

[jolly agate]

What instrument could a cow play?

[crystal nest]

Bell

[frosty garden]

the moote

[rough basalt]

It's cause ||Barovia sucks to live in||

[jolly agate]

(Magic cow using telekinesis and shi but nothing too complicated)

[jolly agate]

It's an option

[severe rampart]

Well said!

[sudden wadi]

So i have a ruling question from yall i know eveyone handles this different but how to yall rule glyphs of warding in bags of holding?

[rough basalt]

CoS teaches a very important part of DMing

[severe rampart]

Ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves? /reference

[rough basalt]

That the real Curse of Strahd was inside you all along (the desire to open a bakery in Barovia)

[severe rampart]

the real curse of strahd is remembering the layout of the castle.

[rough basalt]

Bold of you to assume you're getting there before the real curse gets you

[severe rampart]

Scheduling

[rough basalt]

Scheduling and players.

Nothing more foul and sinister.

[severe rampart]

Salt, Spice, and everything unwise

[frosty garden]

roll a d20 with disadvantage

[severe rampart]

for what? but I got 10

[rough basalt]

It is funny how difficult CoS is to run while not pertaining to the adventure itself

[severe rampart]

Durst Manor having to be nerfed to be more enjoyable

[lavish flame]

I'm of the believe it would fail, possibly disastrously. I think the extradimensional space still counts as moving the item, so it would just explode within the space. If someone were really trying to push the game, I might even make it destroy the Bag.

[frosty garden]

you tripped on a rock in the castle go ahead and take that 2 points of damage. that stone floor said hi

[rough basalt]

Nah, Death House as written is peak.

Never seen a PC die in Death House

[severe rampart]

talking about using it as an introductory (level 1)

[rough basalt]

Yes

It's peak.

[severe rampart]

there's just a ||Spectre that deals 3d6, and immediately aggressive|| (Spoiler warning for CoS)

[rough basalt]

Based

Idk how people die in Death House.

[sudden wadi]

Well luckly that wpuld not explode it just says when they move 10 feet they are displed and no effect happends in im the opposite boat tho but I understand others opinion

[rough basalt]

You just deal damage and enemies die.

[severe rampart]

||Sacrifices, the mound, said spectre||

especially for level 1's it's especially deadly

[rough basalt]

Never seen it happen.

[severe rampart]

Really? have you only played with veterans/people who've already played Curse of Strahd?

[rough basalt]

Nope

Or well yes and no

Was same group cause DM lost the campaign then we restarted for a 2nd time around.

But 1st time around nobody died either

[severe rampart]

maybe your DM downgraded it a bit to be more fair?

[rough basalt]

Thought so at first, but as a DM myself and owning the book he didn't.

As a ||Mr. Shamby Enthusiast|| I know what my boy does

[burnt valley]

me neither, could be certain table homebrew stuff into play

[frosty garden]

cant believe we gotta wait til next year for the next dnd game

[rough basalt]

I think the kicker might be every time I've been in DH was with XP leveling

[severe rampart]

Pardon me, what

[rough basalt]

Yep

Funny enough there's some encounters we missed the 1st time. ||The Broom, notably||

[vague nimbus]

Yall, I just bought 182 dice for my group, is that too much or too little? (Btw it was ~$40)

[rough basalt]

Probably too much but you'll never need more dice at least, probably so evens out.

[vague nimbus]

Sick

[rough basalt]

But yeah I've never seen a PC death in death house

And I've actually only seen a level 1 PC die once that I can remember

[jolly agate]

Any other suggestions on what instrument could a cow play?
(Magic cow using telekinesis and shi but nothing too complicated)

[hoary totem]

Wrong

• a dice dragon

[tame estuary]

bagpipes?

there's this my little pony episode where the yaks are playing bagpipes

[cursive ledge]

wouldn’t even need telekinesis to play drums or piano

[jolly agate]

No fingers, Just cow hooves

how can i even play drums?, Hittin his bloody head against the drums???

[cursive ledge]

then you’d just need big drums or big piano

[jolly agate]

(oh wait that might work)

I'll leave it as a maybe.

[cursive ledge]

there’s also cowbell

[reef copper]

I cant really see a cow playing a piano without telekinesis no matter if it is big or not.

[mighty wharf]

A cowbell

Have like a whole farmers band with the jug and the washboard and the banjo

You could totally have a chicken play the banjo, just uses it's tiny little beak as a pick

[cursive ledge]

you ever see those walking pianos?

[jolly agate]

oh yeah that still would be hard to play right

a lot of movement, and u can't bring one of those to a quest

How about a harmonica?

[cursive ledge]

yeah but you have proficiency, also uhhh magic?

[jolly agate]

We got Cowbell, Bagpipes and a Harmonica

None of them convince me ngl

[jolly agate]

True..

But the giant piano doesn't fit the vibes of a Warlock Highland cow with a hat

(cool wizzard hat)

[cursive ledge]

can the cow telekenetically hold a saxaphone while playing out of it with its mouth?

[jolly agate]

True

Ye i like that one

Ima pin it, i like it. that kinda fits the vibe idk why

Wait a second

Saxophones even exist in dnd?.....

[reef copper]

1. When have you ever heard a person playing a walking piano.
2. you are limited to playing songs whit low complexity like twinkle star

[reef copper]

Not really relevant. The rules dont state that a ton of stuff exists. If they have the technology for it go ahead i would say

[jolly agate]

I mean they have a lot of cool stuff, why no saxophones?

Are u tellin me the dwarves have invented enormus robots and shi but no saxophones?

[reef copper]

Saxophones came in the 1800

[jolly agate]

Ye ima go for it

[reef copper]

Dnd is more if a 1000-1400 setting ish

Idk cant really define the time period

[jolly agate]

Ye but that doesn't matter cuz they have a lot of steam punk tech

Like weapons and robots and i think i saw a hot air balloon

[reef copper]

Depends on setting but 5e kinda said all is cannon so

[wild harbor]

hey everyone

[gusty oar]

Question: what are thoughts on a PC who is actually an intellect devourer puppetting a real boyd via the Body Snatcher feater. They could be using the body after death or maybe something in their backstory kept it alive

[hoary totem]

Favourite UA subclass(es) that didn't make it out of testing? (Subclasses that got renamed with essentially the same features upon official publishing don't count, e.g. "Unity"/Peace Cleric)

[mighty wharf]

If DnD can have the internet via magic mouth then it can have a saxophone

[gusty oar]

True. Plus you could just have an artificer or someone invent it in-lore

[crystal nest]

Easy:Fate Cleric

[gusty oar]

Truth

[hoary totem]

Stone Sorcerer, Phoenix Sorcerer, Theurgy Wizard, Quandrix Sorc/Wiz my beloved

Not a subclass, but I also love Glitchlings

[hot marlin]

Internet via magic mouth?

How does that work?

[crystal nest]

I REALLY wanted Glitchlings because I wanted to make a Seven of Nine from Star Trek-esque character

[tender pier]

Question to players and dms
How often do you loot bodies (or how often do your players loot bodies after battle)

If they you (or your players) even know they can loot fallen enemies after battle

[crystal nest]

The former drone learning their humanity again

[marble lion]

Id say going by canon, the intellect devourer is not able to really produce a proper credible humanoid identity

Or pick a class for that matter

But thats a part id be more willing to ignore

[crystal nest]

Temptation to spoil module...rising

[gusty oar]

It's true, this was a major inspo for the character

[marble lion]

If your point is that there is a canon example of an intellect devourer piloting a credible humanoid, then i take back what i said

I didnt know that existed at all and thought their victims mostly seem like lobotomised or zombieish

[crystal nest]

I won't say anymore

It's a BEEG spoiler in a module

[marble lion]

Can you please say yes or no. Dont tell me the module name. Jusy say if its canon

[mighty wharf]

I would say always give your players something if it's an encounter you want them to interact with. I was playing with some friends and my entire party is new so we looted one of the DMs encounters and we expected something but nah there was nothing to be looted and I could tell my PMs were super disappointed.

[crystal nest]

Yes

[marble lion]

This is about established canon capability

[mighty wharf]

It never hurts to just throw in some gold pieces or something

[marble lion]

Surprising but cool

Then i love the character concept

[tender pier]

I only asked this question because I saw a comment that said their dnd party needs to be reminded to loot

in a video from the channel survive history... IIRC that's the channel name

[marble lion]

I have reminded people to loot

[gusty oar]

Nah, I don't think so. But the 5e description is very interesting with the "Deadly Puppet Masters" section

Or apparently it is. But what's BEEG?

[marble lion]

Big bad evil guy

[mighty wharf]

Funny way of saying big

[marble lion]

Oh beeg, not bbeg?

[mighty wharf]

Yeah

They're asking because someone said BEEG earlier I think

[marble lion]

I sense a typo on their part

Oooh the spoiler right

[mighty wharf]

"BEEG spoilers"

[tender pier]

Dms question
How do you usually make your towns unique In your world?

[marble lion]

The tavern
The criminal local network
The architecture
The local common threat (dangerous woods nearby, old battlefield with ghosts nearby, aggressive neighbour state)

[wispy wing]

Is there a dnd item that lets a character crit on 19 and 20? And is there one that lets a character crit once per day like the Luck of the Far Realms feature in BG3?

[limber trail]

A local trade. Usually some kind of narrative function. A couple NPC. I try feature towns of different sizes rather than similar sizes back to back. Geographical features.

[mighty wharf]

My approach would be to make towns feel less like towns and more like locations. Instead of a town in the Feywilds, maybe a sort of village in the trees.

[mighty wharf]

This

They phrased it much better than I did

[marble lion]

A trade is a good one i should add more

[mighty wharf]

If you want civilization in Hell you can do a rehabilitated fortress.

[limber trail]

Narrative function is the big one. Why am I running any encounter in this town? What interests me about this town that makes me think I should run an adventure of some kind here?

[tender pier]

Currently I'm designing a region that was destroyed back then

Now populated by small towns and cities using the supplies of the ruins of the land ushering a new age of Łăïrchă Făirįzz (Free markets/Profit in english)

[marble lion]

I would say while absolutely true, thats not the same topic

The narrative function isnt really a part of the town
Just why this narrative ended up there

Its very important though

[limber trail]

I’ve got a city coming up that I’m running because it’s right in the border of two nations that are dangerously close to war. A big political leader is passing through, tensions are high, scene is set. So to make it unique, I lean into that. Garrisons and checkpoints. A large walled city. Folks are on edge and distrustful. Soldiers are out late; there’s a curfew; and across the river, a war camp is set up

It’s how I heighten the features I care about

[mighty wharf]

What happens if I fireball from both sides while shapechanging into each other?

[limber trail]

Fantastic question

||there are those in the world who have similar ideas||

[tender pier]

Anyone have an idea to make this region more unique?

I've been at this for months trying to make a campaign that will last for years

[mighty wharf]

Time to become a warmonger

[limber trail]

In actuality, you would kickstart a fight but I think people would catch on quickly enough and once it’s clear that there’s a plot, you’ll be investigated heavily

[mighty wharf]

Tbh I think it's easier to make multiple campaigns for the same characters than a campaign that will last for years.

[marble lion]

I think one thing i couldnt resist is populate it with warforged-like race from the ruins

[mighty wharf]

How would they figure it out if they don't trust each other?

[marble lion]

Because smart people exist even on the edge

[tender pier]

I should've specified it as world then

[limber trail]

I would emphasize this in architecture. Cities and towns that have been built by repurposing ruins, filling them out with newer and less complete structures. A destroyed stone castle that’s been repaired, with missing sections of wall filled in with wood beams and all that

[marble lion]

Isnt it normal for campaigns to last years?

[mighty wharf]

Time to forge some notes then IG. I remember seeing something that let me do perfect forgeries somewhere.

[marble lion]

Not the small ones but any large campaign takes years unless youre all weekly players who lock in

[limber trail]

By talking. There would be a skirmish, they would retreat, negotiators would be sent out.

[tender pier]

Oh hey thanks, that would fit the barbarian/Free/nomad lifestyle the people of the region

[marble lion]

It could work. It could fail.

[jolly agate]

Now i wonder... What abt a Techno barbarian?, Barbarian artificer hybrid. Could that exist?

[limber trail]

Zone of Truth is a pretty useful spell if both parties can agree on a mutual caster or find some way to get a magical handshake to verify its results

[marble lion]

Barbarian arti is uh a weird one

[mighty wharf]

Yeah but who are they going to use it on? I'd have shapechanged. How would they know?

I wouldn't even be a suspect

[marble lion]

Barb wants str, arti wants int
Barb wants no armour, arti wants armour
Barb wants rage, arti wants cast

[mighty wharf]

Unless I wasn't trusted from the beginning

[limber trail]

Each other. They would talk amongst one another and figure out neither of them caused it. They don’t need to figure out it’s you, they need to figure out it’s not each other

[tender pier]

Won't the negatives cancel each other out?

[marble lion]

Also wandering mercenaries are a red flag

[marble lion]

How would they?

[limber trail]

They’re rival nations, both of which are run by competent and well minded generals and leaders who don’t necessarily want war. Neither are immediately jumping into war at the first sign of a skirmish

[marble lion]

Every aspect of gameplay is a contradiction

Use armour, lose features
Use unarmoured, lose a subclass
Use rage, you lose most spells
Use spells, you cant rage much

Im sure there are builds that make it playable

[mighty wharf]

Then why are they on the verge of war in the first place?

[limber trail]

Being on the verge of war isn’t a result of two parties wanting war. It’s the result of two parties not wanting war. They’re on the verge because people are holding back as much as possible, because people will die if they go all out. If they wanted a fight they wouldn’t be waiting and sending diplomats.

[marble lion]

I once tried to make an armourer beast arti barbarian

[mighty wharf]

That didn't answer my question really though. What was the original conflict

[marble lion]

Cool thought on that. Both exist though

If warmongers are causing it, the verge just doesnt last as long probably

[mighty wharf]

Even if the leaders are reasonable what would the people think about the attacks?

[limber trail]

A tense set of conflicts and rising tension with regards to magic & its place in the future, expansionist mindsets on the part of one nation, long histories of violence that in actuality predate the nations, and the work of some individuals to slowly push people to that brink

[mighty wharf]

"Some individuals to slowly push people to that brink"

[limber trail]

It takes a lot more work than an illusory spell and a couple fireballs

So much more work than that

The people doing the manipulation are a lot smarter and a lot more careful than that

[mighty wharf]

Like what

[limber trail]

I’m being very vague here because I have players who look at these channels

And that’s a point of spoilers

[marble lion]

Politician stuff, backroom dealings, stealthy stuff
Some fireballs and illusory spells maybe

[limber trail]

What I’m saying is, I don’t think two fireballs from an unknown attacker would throw everyone into a full blown war. A conflict yes, a destabilising effect sure, but especially with the people around it won’t last and it’s not nearly enough to push them over the edge

[marble lion]

Are you trying to reason that a single explosion should start a war or are you genuinely interested in what else is planned?

[mighty wharf]

I mean. The war on terror...

I could just...

[marble lion]

I wouldnt call that equal to a fireball

[mighty wharf]

What if I upcast it to the 9th level

[limber trail]

It’s also worth knowing that at the time the foremost A) Devotion and B) Redemption paladins, who are tremendously famous war heroes; will be passing through with the specific goal of stopping that war, so they’ll have a lot of power to de-escalate things too

[marble lion]

And thats not war between 2 neighbour states

It takes a lot more to do that than to bomb underdeveloped foreign places half a world away

[mighty wharf]

Fair

[jolly agate]

But it could be cool af

[limber trail]

A lot of actual proper wars have years and years of buildup

[marble lion]

I swear im forgetting the big problem. I just cant remember

[limber trail]

Barbarians can’t cast spells while raging?

[jolly agate]

yeah neg int in barbarian, that would be hard to fix

[marble lion]

There was one massive thing that made me scrap it all

[marble lion]

Barbs dont lose int

[knotty vine]

i still want this as an official feat in dnd
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Heavy Duelist. You can wield a Melee weapon with the Two-Handed property in one hand.

Versatile Dual Wielder. While wielding a Melee weapon with the Versatile property in one hand, the weapon has the Light property for you.

[jolly agate]

But they always use only str and 0 points on int

and artificer is int

[marble lion]

Thats not a rule and not true either

My barb had 14 int for tactics and knowledge checks

[jolly agate]

Alr im confused, how this could not work?

[marble lion]

Charisma was my low stat

[marble lion]

The features clash a lot

[limber trail]

It could but it wouldn’t be very good

[marble lion]

I was under the impression. Are you saying thats false?

[limber trail]

No it’s true they can’t

I was wondering if that was the thing you were missing is all

[marble lion]

Oh no no i think not

[mighty wharf]

This ain't worth it I'm going to the next town

I can cause chaos elsewhere. These two are obviously not going to fight each other.

Some unsuspecting towns would be way better targets.

[limber trail]

That’s the point I’m making

Everyone in this town is on high alert for BS

[mighty wharf]

You'd think they'd be more paranoid like the South Korean border but nah

[limber trail]

They very much are

[marble lion]

The pfp should have given away your personal stake in this

[limber trail]

The South Korean border is very famously at a standstill

[mighty wharf]

What is that supposed to mean?

[marble lion]

Chaos gremlin

[mighty wharf]

Lol

[limber trail]

It’s very well protected to avoid people messing around with it and causing a war

[marble lion]

Moai anime girl who instantly wants to blow stuff up and ruin the world

[mighty wharf]

I just see a jenga tower and my first instinct is to pull out the bottom piece.

[limber trail]

Evidently

[mighty wharf]

That doesn't make me a bad player: I just have different goals

[limber trail]

Not at all

But it also means there are groups you just aren’t a good fit for which is okay because that’s true for everyone

[marble lion]

Im watchin you

[mighty wharf]

[marble lion]

Honestly this one i can see in the right party and world

The reluctance to accept it wont work is what gets me more

[limber trail]

I run my game with four people in mind and nobody else

[marble lion]

But probably just the effect of a chat inviting rambling

Not a sign of how the no would go down in live play

[mighty wharf]

Well it was hard to tell if they were saying "it won't work" or "you need to try harder".

So I had to figure that out first.

[limber trail]

In actual gameplay it would be the second one

[mighty wharf]

Theoretically I could just become one of the diplomats and have my natural ability to muck things up take the wheel

[limber trail]

But I also don’t love playing with people who want to destroy the world for the fun of it, so saying No is a way to just protect against bad actors

[marble lion]

Im a hero kinda guy

[limber trail]

If someone had a good reason for it that made sense with their goals and the world, and had a good plan, then sure

[marble lion]

Id love that kind of thing used against villains though

[limber trail]

100%.

[marble lion]

I tend to emotionally take evil parties personal

You treat my imagination bad? It stings
Cant help it

[jolly agate]

Solasta 2 is lookin good, like realistic looking bg3

[mighty wharf]

See, if I was a DM, and my party wanted to be evil, and it's the planned, scheming kind of evil, I'd go with it but I'd plan my campaign appropriately. You could just make a campaign that supports evil players, but that kinda defeats the purpose of playing an evil character in the first place imo. People wanting to destroy my world is a way of engaging with it imo, just in a different way. And that's what I care about. As long as they actually have a plan, it doesn't have to be the smartest one because I don't fully expect my players to be as good as their characters are.

[plucky finch]

hey, how strange of an idea would it be to have all my main PC’s part of the same family?

[limber trail]

That’s the thing, I play with players who don’t want to be evil schemers and those aren’t the players I like engaging with as a dm

[mighty wharf]

That's fair.

It's difficult to DM for that. Some people don't like that engagement with their world.

[hot gate]

If all of the players are good with that, why not, sounds like a fun thing to try.

In one of my campaigns everyone played adoptive siblings.

[mighty wharf]

It's hard to find players that are actually good schemers too. The thing is, it's hard to scheme in a world of magic where things like detect thoughts, alarm, zone of truth etc. exist. So much of war leans on distrust.

[limber trail]

It is. It’s also hard to find players who make characters that suit that story

[plucky finch]

no like, the characters I play, cause currently I play two dragon/dragonborns that are husbands, and I was thinking of making their daughter another character I play, but I feel like that could be creatively stifling

[limber trail]

Most (not all) players who want to play like that tends to play nonserious characters, caricatures, and Deadpool-likes. Not all of course, but I just haven’t enjoyed playing with players who try to play like that and none of my players generally do either.

[mighty wharf]

Would a ontologically evil necromancer wizard be a caricature...

[still plover]

A game I was setting up had the PCs all part of a noble house. Time shenanigans aside, no family tree should loop back on itself.

[limber trail]

It wouldn’t be a fitting character with the campaigns I like running

[tender pier]

Is there a channel for worldbuilding?

Wait nvm found it

[mighty wharf]

I'm still debating on how I want to run my character. I went with chaotic good alignment with the intent I was going to do questionable and bizarre magic, but for good purposes.

[still plover]

Like what?

[mighty wharf]

The character is supposed to be optimization crazed, so bodysnatching an enemy with Magic Jar is one of them.

We're playing with a sort of mix of 2014 rules and 2024 rules

Maybe animating the dead in a town's graveyard

Committing war crimes against enemies

[mighty wharf]

I mean that's basically lichdom

Maybe killing a deity or two

I want to come up with an evil endgoal but I haven't yet

[limber trail]

That’s worth working with your DM to figure out

[mighty wharf]

I'm still on the fence about it. This is going to be a long time character so it's really dependent on our adventures and the vibes I get from this party

[limber trail]

Have you played evil characters before?

[mighty wharf]

So far we are incredibly goofy and don't roleplay very much. Very much play more to the game aspect

[mighty wharf]

No. Gotta start somewhere. I did quite a bit of research, generally you want to establish some kind of end goal or selfish goal but come up with a motivation for the character to work with the party and do what would normally be considered heroic things to achieve said goal.

[limber trail]

Most of all I would disregard any and all notion of betraying the party

[mighty wharf]

Yeah for sure.

[limber trail]

It sucks for everyone, it’s a sour ending for your character

I would express your goals to your DM and ask for help with making your evil sides come through

They will help you make it work better than if you just pull it out of nowhere

[mighty wharf]

Yeah for sure, like I said I haven't decided anything yet, just started considering how I'd play my character if I decided they were evil

[indigo cedar]

Playing an evil character well is not easy

too many fall into the trap of thinking that doing evil actions is the way to go and they would be wrong

[limber trail]

Evil characters across the board tend to be the most disliked in the campaigns I’ve been a player in

[indigo cedar]

because majority of people who play evil characters doesn't really understand how to actually play a likeable evil character

they do all kind of stuff for the shock effect of it

[limber trail]

They can be good. They often are not

[tender pier]

Anyone here played a Pragmatic Evil character?

I played as a evil character, but my main goal is to make profit long term not short term

[indigo cedar]

playing an evil character in a long term campaign you need a long term goal you are working towards, being chaotic evil and killing for the sake of killing isn't really the way to go

[tender pier]

My party thinks that I'm a good guy reality I'm just greedy asf

But know when to stop being greedy if it means for longer term profit orrr the treasure is a curse and my character rarely takes chances

[still plover]

Both my warlocks. One was LE to start, but that was more leaning into the entitled nobility aspect. The other didn't get a written alignment. Left to her own devices, De Vor would probably have gone CE. Having trustworthy folk around helped ground her and rein in some of her excesses. Her goal was a form of spiritual ascension.

[tender pier]

LE? I don't get some terms mb

[lyric viper]

Common abbreviations of alignments!
L= Lawful
C= Chaotic
G= Good
E= Evil
N = Neutral.

[humble cairn]

LE = Lawful Evil. One of the Nine Alignments, but the Alignment system is a terrible way to describe character psychology anyway, you should just write up a thorough personality. Pragmatic and Ruthless sound about good for your concept.

[lyric viper]

You may also see 'TN' occasionally for 'True Neutral' when someone is Neutral/Neutral on both axis ( Lawful-Chaotic, Good-Evil)

[humble cairn]

True Neutral is a community holdover from prior editions, it isn't in the current system.

[tender pier]

My other character wants to be evil but is focuses on money but every action he makes is good Intentionally or unintentionally

I genuinely tried to be evil but not cartoonists evil but my dm is cursing me of good deeds

[humble cairn]

Why "wants to be evil?"

[tender pier]

He enjoys the chaos of being evil, more so for the fun of the game

But not the cartoonist evil type, he wants to be evil but a genius long term evil that will bring him riches whilst having a luxurious spot free from conflict

Though he isn't a coward... its just fighting and planning all the time removes/chips away his personal time

[humble cairn]

So he thinks to himself that he wants to be evil?

[safe gyro]

Wanting to be evil is crazy

[humble cairn]

It's a rare person who tries to be evil. A lot of times people just enjoy doing things that cause harm to others and simply don't care about the consequences. Deliberately striving to be evil is not something people usually do. Like what does he think "evil" means?

Most evil people don't think of themselves as evil.

[safe gyro]

Yeah evil is subjective to ones case and situation

[tender pier]

Yeah, to cause chaos and confusion, to let his name be heard across the criminal guilds

He's just in for the fun of the game

but he's not chaotic evil, he belives there should be lesser restrictions of society and some form of peace

Not eternal peace however, that would be terrible for his profit and the merchants he's allied with

[safe gyro]

He want's infamy then

[humble cairn]

So he wants to have fun, regardless of what society tells him to do and he doesn't care if that harms people? That is the definition of chaotic evil, you know.

[tender pier]

Yeah

[safe gyro]

He want's infamy and riches despite the cost on his victims. That's chaotic evil sure, but wanting to be evil for the sake of being evil sounds weird

[tender pier]

He doesn't care to the people he harmed MOST of the time

He picks his targets and enemies cautiously

[still plover]

Based on what criteria?

[safe gyro]

That sounds like Neutral evil then, or something along those lines

[tender pier]

Long term threat, their current strength, intelligence, potential

[humble cairn]

According to the Alignment chart, he is Chaotic Evil. But that doesn't matter as much as having a good description which you can use to roleplay.

If you consider your own reasons for doing things before society's reasons, that's chaotic.

[safe gyro]

Playing a Chaotic Evil character in a campaign with other non evil characters is... Very difficult

[tender pier]

He belives chosen one prophecies, but not paranoid about them

He knows there would be logical reasons as too why

[humble cairn]

Not really, CE doesn't mean a stupid rampager.

[tender pier]

Oh, I didn't mention the party was good?

[humble cairn]

You can play a smart, cunning, and patient CE character.

[safe gyro]

I'm aware, but it's best to run your idea through the DM since. It really changes things

[tender pier]

More like "yeah we will be good, just for the money, but we draw the line of being evil somewhere"

[humble cairn]

Does your character like the fact that laws and rules for behavior exist?

[safe gyro]

This is true, and can make for cool moments. But if not orchestrated correctly it can cause a couple issues and make life unnecessarily harder for the DM.

[tender pier]

Laws and rules for behavior? Like lawa of countries/kingdoms?

[reef tundra]

This seems like a very flat character, especially presenting their alignment first

[humble cairn]

Laws of the country and rules for normal people's behavior, like politeness, etc.

[real epoch]

ohhh yeah that’s a tough one 😬 gotta walk that fine line between staying in character and not ruining the party’s vibe lol

[still plover]

You think, "aha, I'll rob some folk at the market, that'll be a fun character note for me," next thing you know there's a bad roll and everything's spiralling when the party are trying to gear up to go after a wyvern roost.

[tender pier]

He is usually fine with them, heck he want some form of politeness when someone is greeting him

And he's fine with most laws of nations

Even benefits his buisness partners

[reef tundra]

I have a character who considers laws a way for the rich to keep control over the poor to keep them weak and obedient, and she wants nothing more than to destroy the concept of law to rise up to the top to finally live the life she’s always wanted and has felt like she was denied of

This all sounds so much better and deeper than “I have a chaotic neutral character”

[tender pier]

He also tends to stay AWAY from businesses that involve slavery

[humble cairn]

Followup question, do you need to have an Alignment for this character or would you be okay leaving that spot blank and just writing up a personality?

[tender pier]

And cause uprisings For slaves

[safe gyro]

Exactly, someone did it as a player in my campaign. It went horribly, but I like the concept of a CE player character that's secretly the BBEG and works with the DM. Could make a cool one shot or short campaign with that idea.

[reef tundra]

I always think of character first, instead of alignment first

[tender pier]

Nah, I just want his personality to match up with my own Ideals IRL

I just think of his personality as pragmatic chaotic evil

[still plover]

I have a character who considered laws a way for the rich to control the poor because they were weak and obedient, and that was the way of things.

She got better, honest!

[tender pier]

Focused on long term profit

[humble cairn]

Ok so just stop referring to alignment and describe the personality then, there will be less debate and dickering over definitions.

[reef tundra]

Alignment doesn’t really dictate personality

[safe gyro]

I feel like Character Concept --> Backstory --> Class --> Alignment and then everything else is the way to go. Or at least what I see work fairly often.

[real epoch]

ohhh yeah that’d be insane 😈 like secretly plotting behind the party’s back while still playing the game huge tension big payoff if done right perfect for a one shot or mini campaign lol

[tender pier]

Alright, am I still free to discuss my character here?

[humble cairn]

Of course!

[safe gyro]

I always enjoy a backstory that dictates why a person is the class they are. Instead of a class that dictates someones backstory.

[tender pier]

Alright, I only thought he was evil due to his personality

Also his current class is Artificer, Multiclass necromancer

[safe gyro]

Reading about how they got powers and initiated a pact with a devil or, how they got fighting prowess through experiences before just seeing "John Fighter #5" is a lot cooler.

[real epoch]

do you wanna see this visually?

[tender pier]

For anyone who was thinking of what my 2nd characters class was

[safe gyro]

Then again I'm more for roleplay than combat so, to each their own I suppose.

By the way, cool tip. Alignment is mostly to help the DM reward you for staying true to your character, and a tool for you to consider what actions your character would take in that situation

I've had one too many times where an evil player that worshipped Bhaal decided to "Pet a Kobold" because it was cute. It was, but it felt very out of character.

[tender pier]

you can be evil and appreciate good things

You just need to set up your personality and backstory for it to fit

[safe gyro]

But character's drifting from their original alignment is also cool, it just has to be done over time. A person doesn't get evil over a day, nor does an evil-dooer become a righteous paladin after a single event. It creates dope roleplay too.

[tender pier]

Idk if I want to use my 2nd character For this example

[safe gyro]

Yessir, my advice is to set up your entire backstory first. And then read through it a couple of times and think. "What in this persons life made them (Chaotic evil, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral etc)"

[tender pier]

Ok after thinking for a while

My character maybe a long term Realistic profiteer rather than being evil

So maybe chaotic neutral

[safe gyro]

Staying true to an evil character in a group of good adventurers is doable, just very hard on you. Since you'll be the black sheep, and it doesn't always feel good. It pays off if your a good roleplayer but, you really have to dedicate yourself to it

[safe gyro]

Chaotic Neutral is a great alignment, it gives you creative freedom to do whatever whenever.

[still plover]

I don't know, the Chaotic in there I see in opposition to Lawful. That reads to me more that they want to strike out at laws they see unjust. Break unfair systems and suchlike.

[safe gyro]

I always use Chaotic Neutral for character's I want to shape over a campaign.

[tender pier]

Yeah definitely chaotic Neutral...

What else does my character have

Oh I didn't complete the fact on why he hates slavery

[safe gyro]

Lawful usually just means they stick to principle. Like Lawful Evil is like. "Okay, you told me to NOT kill your son. So I'll kill your daughter sine you weren't specific enough." (This is an exaggeration but ya get me.)

[still plover]

Yeah, I get you. Principles can be a good way to look at it. You have them and follow them, you have them but sometimes ignore them, you have none at all.

[safe gyro]

Lawful Evil really is the Jawbreaker of the DnD world

[humble cairn]

1. Alignment never dictates your behaviour in the first place, it just describes your choices and actions
   2)If there needs to be an alignment that let's you ignore the whole alignment system then I think the system is not helpful for guiding roleplay, which is what it ostensibly is there for.

[safe gyro]

All DnD rules are meant to be guidelines, we all use and interpret them different. I mostly see the alignment system used by DM's to reward suitable actions during roleplay

[tender pier]

Alright, so my wnd characters name is Celethorn

I forgot to tell that in the beginning of the conversation

[safe gyro]

For me it's how I give out Inspiration points

[humble cairn]

By the rules, it's only a description of your choices and actions, a character's alignment can basically change whenever they make new decisions and actions.

[still plover]

If in doubt, Neutral Good is always there. You try to do good things! Sometimes that means breaking a law, but you don't consider yourself a criminal.

[reef tundra]

See what visually?

[safe gyro]

Rules in DnD are always do or don't. It changes from party to party. By definition you are correct but, we all use the systems differently depending on our needs.

That's the beauty of DnD babyyyy, it's all guidelines

[humble cairn]

Okay? But generally RAW is the basis of discussion here otherwise none of us would know what anyone else is talking about if we just refer to houserules all the time.

[safe gyro]

Fair, alignment is always subjective to what one considers to be good and evil though. So I usually find all the alignments to be up to personal interpretation

[reef tundra]

Talking Alignment is always a can of worms to battles of philosophies and morals

[safe gyro]

Exactly this yeah

[tender pier]

I just left for one minute... and somehow Alignment is still continuing

[safe gyro]

yessir

Ts a spicy topic of opinions and personal belief, almost feels political lmao

[reef tundra]

Some debates can go on for a long time

Once an argument about monks raged in the homebrew channel for five to seven hours

[reef tundra]

People make it political often

[safe gyro]

Yeeaaah, it's like that with many topics I feel like

[reef tundra]

Yeah

[safe gyro]

Especially in current times, people seem to drag in stuff out of the blue and it spirals into oblivion

[reef tundra]

Anyway, let’s quickly shift topic before someone sees this as an invitation

[safe gyro]

Good call lol

So! Funniest NPC you've seen or created?

[tender pier]

The duality of man I dare say

[reef tundra]

Styles MacLaine. -3 in every stat except charisma and dex. He found some ancient tech, but used it to build a hover board to do skateboard tricks

[safe gyro]

That's crazy based

[reef tundra]

He thinks he’s so cool but he’s just an idiot and I love him

[safe gyro]

One could wonder how he made it with a -3 in intelligence lol

Must have gotten a great roll

[reef tundra]

Yeah, likely

[still plover]

Take 20, old rules.

[lilac raptor]

How broken would an eldritch knight with full spellcasting progression be ? Just a better swords bard ?

[safe gyro]

I remember there was like, a random npc villager that kept surviving grevious injuries. So everytime we met him he'd have another peg leg or arm

Eventually he just turned into Shamus from family guy

[glass granite]

That’s no longer a fighter…

I’d say quite broken

[reef tundra]

That is the best of both worlds holy hell

Broken. Broken. A wizard with the HP, Armour, weapons, and abilities of a fighter, insanity

[undone rain]

I would be very scared to see that

[reef tundra]

Self healing that doesn’t use spell slots, action surge allowing the casting of a spell then surging to take the attack action

[glass granite]

4 attacks

[undone rain]

Thats no longer a fighter, thats a god

[reef tundra]

Yeah, 4 attacks oh lord

[lilac raptor]

Noted

[glass granite]

Also
Don’t wizards get conjure minor elementals?

[undone rain]

Iirc yeah

[glass granite]

Combined with the amount of attacks fighter can get, you can save a good amount of spell slots.
Or hit like 50 trucks

[safe gyro]

Give my condolences to your dm

[undone rain]

Basically a bladesinger but their bladesinging ability is constantly on

[lilac raptor]

Damn I said to my dm half jokingly that if I ever got Wish I’d use it to get full progression, but yeah, sounds like a bad idea. Half caster would be better at least…?

[glass granite]

Much more balanced, but still very powerful.

[lilac raptor]

Ig much more appropriate given that Wish is a powerful spell

[limber trail]

half caster only nets a few extra spell slots and 5th level spells

[undone rain]

Hmm should i pick the oath of glory

[glass granite]

It’s certainly a subclass you can pick

[limber trail]

it can be fun

[undone rain]

What, is it bad

[limber trail]

it's fine

[glass granite]

No, just that we have no context nor knowledge of what you want

[limber trail]

i don't think there's a lot of paladin subclasses that are much better or worse than the average

[glass granite]

They’re all decent

[limber trail]

they're all pretty solid for the most part, I don't think you can go super wrong

if glory sounds fun then by all means go glory

[undone rain]

Oh right lol, yeah my oathbreaker paladin has redeemed himself and me and my dm are trynna figure out what new oath he can take

Generally good aligned oaths

[glass granite]

Redemption sounds fitting then
Glory could work tho depending on the details

[undone rain]

He was a redemption but idk it wasnt for me

[limber trail]

I always see Devotion as the most stereotypical good guy paladin, so that's always a good fit, redemption is also a good pick for more of a narrative theme

[burnt valley]

It would become the best martial subclass (They get True Polymorph and Shapechange like Wizard)

[glass granite]

Does he seem like the type to abide by the Oath of Glory tenants?

[limber trail]

Eldritch knight is a martial class, it's not a martial subclass

it'd become the best caster subclass

[undone rain]

I believe so yes, he wants to do heroism to recieve glory

Reminds me a bit of all might

[glass granite]

Then sure, oath of glory for the win

[undone rain]

Alriiiight, ill speak to my dm about that

Ive always liked the hero types

[native bronze]

What class is best for utility besides wizard and bard

[burnt valley]

Druid

[prime basin]

druid and maybe artificer are the two best options

cleric isn't horrible but it usually is used for support and AOE type spells

if you want a non spellcasting utility class, go rogue

[marble lion]

Cleric is nice for just picking any spell in the book per long rest

Very flexible, i think druid works the same though

[reef copper]

What about ancient

[limber trail]

I see them as good aligned for sure but not stereotypically so.

[marble lion]

Ancient is not the stereotype, its aloof and has a nature spin

Stereotype definitely devotion and redemption
Crown if you serve a nice ruler

[limber trail]

Crown paladins are definitely like, the Knight stereotype

[marble lion]

Which is pretty much what a paladin comes from

[limber trail]

it is, crown leans into it the most in its oath

[marble lion]

Shiny, chivalry (which includes faith traditionally), loyal

But ddvotion is just so goodguy, it has to win

[limber trail]

Devotion to me is just like

[marble lion]

And crown risks serving a less moral civilisation so cant be #1

[limber trail]

That's what a paladin is

[glass granite]

How about redemption?

[marble lion]

2nd place

[marble lion]

Too focussed on one flavour of being good
The 1st place has to be the allrounder

[limber trail]

I've worldbuilt a city based on paladins & the different paladin oaths. Crown Paladins in that city are very much the cops of it all. They uphold the law, for all the good and bad that can mean.

[undone rain]

Crown paladins can serve blindly and sometimes not question their faith. But can be cool for a nice oathbreaker. Breaking their oath because of a corrupt government

[marble lion]

I still feel like the text on the crown oath kinda disallows evil

But maybe a very pragmatic neutral

[limber trail]

It disallows evil, but it still is a more lawful subclass

[marble lion]

Yeah pretty much

[limber trail]

I see it as like, upholding the order and the law of the land. There's a world where morality could get grey in some situations. Not that all crown paladins are grey

but to me, devotion paladins are just pure paladin-ness. Belief in people personified.

[dim wasp]

it was meant to trap you by design

what is there again

chaotic,neutral,good,evil?

im missing 2 allignments idk what tho

[glass granite]

Lawful, if that’s what you mean

[still plover]

There needs to be a different term for paladins that drop their oaths. There's a difference between giving up, messing up, and going full Dark Side.

[glass granite]

Mhm, the name Oathbreaker is kinda misleading

[marble lion]

Should be called Oath of Evil lol

[still plover]

Oath of the Scorned?

[marble lion]

Not that you have to play it evil

[knotty pasture]

Oath of Sinners for those who did something unforgivable

[still plover]

(Subclasses are rules packets and flavour is optional, yes, but...)

Oath of the Damned. Get metal.

[marble lion]

Thats good

[glad arch]

At that point arent you just a normal person again. Maybe with some martial capabilities

[marble lion]

Still should have a term

Even if that was all

[still plover]

[Exactly](#dnd-discussion message). Ex-paladin? Disavowed? Oathless?

[knotty pasture]

What if Oathbreaker is just a Fighter subclass

[marble lion]

It wouldnt have features

Aura gone, smite gone, spells gone, heal hands gone

An oathless paladin be a lowlevel fighter

He would need to learn how to fight without powers

[shadow vapor]

Lightning Caster

-# General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Spellcasting or Pact Magic Feature)

Your rapid-fire style of casting cantrips allows you to weave magic with uncanny speed. You gain the following benefits.

Ability Score Increase. Increase your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

Dual Target. When you cast a cantrip with a casting time of an action that targets a single creature, you can use a Bonus Action to target a second creature within the cantrip’s range.

Immediate Response. When you cast a spell as a Reaction, that spell doesn’t expend a spell slot. Once you use this benefit, you can’t use it again until you finish a Long Rest.
-# Grim Hollow: Player’s Guide

Hay guess so I just wanted to ask, would this feat, RAW give me the ability to cast 4 eldritch blast like I think it would?

[hoary totem]

Wait how good is this for a wiz

[marble lion]

Technically not id lawyer

It just says target with the cantrip, not each attack

[remote wadi]

Starting to realize just how deadly and somewhat horrific Heat Metal can be

[marble lion]

This would have no effect after level 5

[shadow vapor]

not like very good, it's ok I guess I think theirs a better one for wizards that critical role made

[marble lion]

Because lvl5 eb already lets you target more than 1

If it did work, id say it only lets you shoot one extra blast, not double

[feral fulcrum]

No, Up until level five, it's basically Twinned Spell form Sorceror metamagic. After level 5 it stops working because then you have two blasts, making it capable of targeting more then one creature.

[still plover]

You used to serve a great and noble purpose that empowered you. You failed. Although your martial skills remain, your enhanced abilities have faded to a flicker, barely within reach - but not gone entirely.

Homebrew aside, I'd make it a fighter with the Acolyte background.

[shadow vapor]

I have to disagree, at that point using your bouns action would allow you to target a third creature, it's not worded like extra attack.

[dim wasp]

probably

[marble lion]

It says second. You already can target a second one

[dim wasp]

noms naur

[knotty pasture]

Wot

[feral fulcrum]

It doesn't matter if it's not worded like Extra attack?

[marble lion]

You asked for RAW and im pretty sure thats the only RAW interpretation

[dim wasp]

this is for broken oath paladin?

[marble lion]

The feat is designed for cantrips that dont already multitarget

[feral fulcrum]

"Dual Target. When you cast a cantrip with a casting time of an action that targets a single creature," Key words here. "Targets a single creature."

[marble lion]

Yup that too

[feral fulcrum]

It functions Exactly like Twinned Spell. If it's capable of targeting more then one, it no worky.

[shadow vapor]

so wait would if you used it on green flame blade? would that also just not work at all?

[still plover]

Sure.

[marble lion]

Does green flame blade directly target an enemy or is it a buff on your attack?

[feral fulcrum]

It's a Melee attack cantrip.

[dim wasp]

what if it instead extended the range of a multi target attack as an alternative effect?

[limber trail]

GFB is an attack that targets an enemy

[marble lion]

Then that works as long as the 2nd target is in range

[marble lion]

Thats a completely different effect

If you are hellbent on buffing eldritch blast, homebrew it if you want yeah

[limber trail]

Actually sorry, green flame blade targets 2 creatures - one with the actual attack, a second with the additional damage

Booming Blade would work though

[marble lion]

Huhhhh

[shadow vapor]

I thought so.

[limber trail]

GFB's damage jumps to a second creature of your choice on a hit, which means it targets two creatures

As I said though, booming blade works fine

[marble lion]

Thats weird with this feat

[lilac scaffold]

Sharkymini (Duelyst) @yes

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[marble lion]

I feel like that feat is a poorly thoughtout homebrew

[limber trail]

100%.

[marble lion]

It interacts weird with more cantrips i assume

[limber trail]

It's third party so basically is

[marble lion]

I thought grimhollow was official

[feral fulcrum]

Lol, no. Third Party

Weird Third Party at that.

[limber trail]

it's partnered with dndbeyond but still well and truly third party

[wispy wing]

Are there any completely broken features in Grim Hollow?

[feral fulcrum]

I mean you just looked at one. :V

[still plover]

But why would a DM restrict my vision of my character?

[feral fulcrum]

No spending a spell slot on Reaction spells is plenty busted.

[wispy wing]

Oh sorry I jus got up from bed. Reading...

[glad arch]

Once a day though

Then again a free counterspell a day is pretty nice

[shadow vapor]

yeah great for warlock (I feel like we should actually just have that as a baseline though just saying)

[limber trail]

I'm imagining a level 5 caster being incredibly powerful with that feat. A free counterspell AND two cantrips a turn is great

[glass granite]

Aberrant mind sorcerer can do smt like that if I recall

[still plover]

I swear I'm gonna post a Free Rules only campaign one day just to see how many folk fall at the first hurdle.

[thick horizon]

I just joined I’m new

[marble lion]

I wouldnt fall, id jump

[limber trail]

They can spend sorcery points to cast levelled spells from their psionic spells list but nothing else from what I see

[limber trail]

I have to ask, what do you think follows after jumping?

[still plover]

Ah, there's Nugget.

[glad arch]

Floating

[glass granite]

Hello new, welcome

[marble lion]

Not being in a game thats free rules only

[feral fulcrum]

If you recruited from here, even odds on "All of them." And "None of them." I've seen...so many people with an inability and no desire to read.

[limber trail]

reasonable

[glass granite]

Good evening!

[marble lion]

Eh maybe one day id welcome a basic rules game actually

[wispy wing]

Can I ask about items here?

[thick horizon]

Do we just join a call and play D&D?

[glass granite]

Not on this server, no

[severe rampart]

Basically the average campaign of us too poor for books 💔

[marble lion]

No you go to #find-a-game

[still plover]

Are you new to D&D as a whole?

[limber trail]

Maybe not basic rules but as the days go by I get more and more tempted to limit people to the PHB and maybe like, tashas & xanathars

[marble lion]

Just dont play on VTTs and you can play what you want

[still plover]

And no multiclassing!

[glad arch]

My first campaign (and for most players first) was phb only. It works pretty well

[limber trail]

I don't mind multiclassing in a long form campaign but I do think some people make some unwise multiclasses

[thick horizon]

I played one time

[glad arch]

Though i must admit i like it more with tasha/xanathar/mtom

[severe rampart]

I've almost only played Monoclasses

[marble lion]

If i let a DM restrict me by a large amount, i want the game to commit by only being phb and a basic classic module
I want a human, an elf, a dwarf and idk what else
If xan and tash are in, might as well allow all of it (selected exceptions fine ofc)

[feral fulcrum]

Most people don't really get that the majoriy of Multiclassing is just shooting themselves in the foot, and are surprised when majorly slowing down your overall progression...means you lag behind hard.

[marble lion]

I did fine on my barb cleric

I was still decent in combat, but could up dead people and had neat utility
It was fun

But yeah if youre optimising....

[limber trail]

Multiclasses: usually either some atrociously broken nonsense that lets you summon god at will at fourth level as a bonus action, or actively inhibiting your core mechanics

[spring chasm]

What brab?

[hushed mason]

One of my players has four different base classes. It's super annoying and not a very good build.

[feral fulcrum]

Misspelled Barb.

[marble lion]

Berserker subclass and order cleric

[spring chasm]

Oh

[limber trail]

I do enjoy a good multiclassed one shot, for the fun of it. But I do it as an outlet while saving the good stuff for a campaign

[marble lion]

It was all flavour, zero broken

[limber trail]

I finally tried out Hexsorcadin in a one shot not long ago. Was fun. Never need to do that again.

[marble lion]

My soulless soldier barbarian got granted a soul by a god and to represent that piece given directly by that god, i wanted cleric stuff

[limber trail]

what have they got going on?

[feral fulcrum]

Meanwhile I'm over here waiting until level 17 to bother possibly Multiclassing out of Wizard, if only because the high level wizard features are kinda meh.

[marble lion]

It was better than i thought

[hushed mason]

This is a 3.5e game: Ranger 2, Fighter 2, Cleric 3, Rogue 1.

[still plover]

You might be best off checking out the #dnd-newcomers channel for starters. The #channel-guide can also be useful to get oriented. Good luck!

[thick horizon]

Can you tell me on which server?

[limber trail]

that's quite a combination

[glass granite]

Prolly one on #looking-for-community

[hushed mason]

Especially when you consider that Prestige Classes are a thing in 3.5. Yes, it's quite the combination.

[marble lion]

Veanies bio called me stupidlooking. Hes mean

[remote wadi]

Honestly, if i were to run my own campaign, I'd probably limit characters to 1 MC only

[marble lion]

Doing them a favour

[limber trail]

I don’t think it’s worth limiting

I just have an honest conversation with players about what multiclassing means and what they’re losing

[hushed mason]

This is not a min/max build, so it's really just a personal choice to make a character that does everything but is good at nothing.

[remote wadi]

Multiclassing? I wouldn't ban it outright and I know they always trade off versatility for something very specific

[hushed mason]

It's difficult to have those conversations with people that have been playing even longer than I have.

[limber trail]

That’s fair

[remote wadi]

But it still isn't worth MCing more than once most times

[hushed mason]

I guess I've been quiet about it with him because I'm not sure he'll be sticking around. I don't know if he's a good fit yet.

[marble lion]

The multiclass i really wanna do one day is bloodhunter with a cleric dip

But thats just for RP, as are all my mc ideas

[hushed mason]

I have a few NPCs with multiclassing: a cleric with some levels in fighter because they need to be proficient with a gisarme for a PRC, a sorcerer/wizard/Ultimate Magus combo.

[remote wadi]

Most MC ideas I have mostly are no more than 2 classes total, and still are mostly for RP reasons

[tall forge]

The biggest multi-class i ever did

[remote wadi]

Gloomstalker Assassin being a great one that blends good combat and good roleplay elements

[tall forge]

Warlock sorcerer fighter

[remote wadi]

But otherwise, a good chunk of multi classes are also people who didn't know a certain subclass exists that could fill their idea even better

[tall forge]

The dm used flanking rules and allowed me the UA feat close quarters shooter.

I melee eldritch blasted em all

With elven accuracy, was pretty brutal

[knotty pasture]

Sus

Can someone call mods

[oak grotto]

If you select a message you can choose the option to alert the server's mods. Also you can ping them or go to #moderator-support.

Already took care of it though.

[knotty pasture]

Its not that, I'm on an older version of discord on mobile

There's no alert mod option there

[minor cargo]

Haha, maybe don't ping them, but definitely use the alert mods option. I believe it gives them a gentle, highly visible notification.

[oak grotto]

Apps.

[reef tundra]

Done

[glass granite]

I thought it pinged them

[reef tundra]

I’m not sure what it does but I think it certainly gets their attention

[glass granite]

Idk tho, Tis was an assumption

[oak grotto]

You need to select the apps option.

Also maybe you should update Discord.

[reef tundra]

I’ve already reported it

[glass granite]

Ditto

[knotty pasture]

I like the older UI back in late 2024

[reef tundra]

Tag team

[minor cargo]

My best guess is that it does a "more accurate" @/here (so maybe it checks people who are actually online? and not away or whatever) or puts it in a special channel that the team puts at the top of their list and try to keep monitored (rather than try to monitor the dozens of channels we have when they get a single new message). I don't know for sure but that's kind of how I imagined things line up based on what I've seen. ✌️

[knotty pasture]

The point was that the Apps option doesn't exist in that older version

Not that I don't know how to, ofc I do

[hoary totem]

I prefer to multiclass only when it would be thematically relevant. For example, Rumi from KPDH would be a valor bard for sure but she'd also have a few levels in Hexblade Warlock due to her connection to the Honmoon giving her a cool magic sword (and ||Jinu's soul in the sword||)

[glass granite]

Btw, if yall could have one magic item (not something broken) just for everyday life what would it be?

[oak grotto]

Wand of fireballs.

[knotty pasture]

Ring of Poison Resistance

[minor cargo]

Cleansing Stone. It just cleans all of your clothes as an action.

[glass granite]

What sorta lives do yall have to want a wand of fireballs and poison resistance?

[glass granite]

This I can get behind

[knotty pasture]

I can now shove stuff into my mouth without having to worry about food poisoning

[hushed mason]

Um. A ring of three wishes? If that's not available, then ... a flying carpet.

[oak grotto]

Customer service.

[hushed mason]

Food poisoning isn't poison.

[glass granite]

Y’know what I can respect it if that works

[reef tundra]

Sword of Kas

[pliant sapphire]

The ring cant save you from the poisoned condition

[glass granite]

I think a ring of three wishes would go under “broken” lol

[knotty pasture]

Resistance to it can at least make it less painful

[minor cargo]

Some other highlights IMO:
Chest of Preserving. A small chest that doesn't let food go bad.
Tankard of Plenty. Three charges that each give you a pint of a rich ale. Recharges to full every day.

[knotty pasture]

Tankard of Plenty is exactly what I envision my Dwarf PC to carry around all the time

[reef tundra]

Bag of holding. Basic but omg it would be so useful

[hoary totem]

I might suggest to my DM (when I find one...) to give my chronurgy wizard a custom pocket watch arcane focus that gives extra uses of chronal shift

[hushed mason]

I could live with two wishes. I've thought about it a fair bit.

[hoary totem]

bag of holding, no more problems with carrying textbooks

[knotty pasture]

Bag of holding could have made for the perfect suitcase

[glass granite]

Just careful not to tear it

[pliant sapphire]

Bottle of Boundless Coffee. Need it for work

[glass granite]

I was waiting for that one to show up

I personally don’t hide my distaste for coffee, so I would’ve ever get it for myself

[tall forge]

Murders you

[hushed mason]

You know, a custom device that granted me the ability of 3.5e Prestidigitation at will would probably be better than a magic carpet.

Or Mending...

I just broke my iPad screen tonight.

[hoary totem]

What is the greatest magic of all? CHRONOMANCY!

[feral fulcrum]

Wish magic.

[remote wadi]

Should have learned the Mending Cantrip

[undone rain]

Did anyone else get a dm from a member of this server inviting you into an interview on dnd and ai?

[minor cargo]

Mending doesn't actually work on Apple products. You need the special Apple version of it to work, iMending.

[tall forge]

This is why i murders you

[undone rain]

And it costs 4 spellslots to use it lol

[remote wadi]

Lowkey, would be a super underrated cantrip irl

Only 1 minute to cast, can repair any break or tear less than 1 foot wide or long, and the material component is ultra cheap and isn't consumed

And if we were to compare magic items and constructs to electronics, all it would need is to be recharged

[jolly agate]

once upon a witchlight is so funny idk why

[burnt valley]

that's too cheap for Apple

[tall forge]

4 spell slots a week

[burnt valley]

also anyone using it would have to make a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw to not keep shilling the product despite the amount of unnecessary features and high price

[tall forge]

Payment plan you see

[random shuttle]

Helloo

[tall forge]

Hello

[buoyant oar]

Perhaps I am a minority user but I have never had a positive experience with an apple product

[tall forge]

I have an apple phone currently (hand me down from parents from highschool) and it works fine

But so does android

[floral lodge]

I have a dnd campaign concept can I share my pitch

[eager marsh]

That's a good thing. They're a bad company deliberately making things worse and requiring replacement. They can't sell in several european countries because programmed obscelecence is illegal in them

[buoyant oar]

Tbf I bounced from iPhone at the iPhone 4 iPad from the first one. And Mac from the iMac.

The biggest thing that I've noticed in the workforce is that people who used exclusively Apple products who were like in their early to mid twenties have the same technological prowess as a 70 y/o who can't open a PDF

[limber trail]

Sure!

[remote wadi]

That feels like an Int saving throw to not have Int fall down to 7

[floral lodge]

I'm building a world where the humanoid races have hunted nearly all animals into extinction, so the humanoids decide to enslave and turn the beastfolk races into their new food source.
This is the start of a long coming war....

This is a very hombrew campaign....some things include:
Dragon Tortles (WOW)
Vampire Varient (Cirque de Freak)
Vampaneze Varient (Cirque de Freak)
Elf Subrace Rebuild (Dragon Prince)
Dracotaur (Custom)
Gobbler (W101)
Grendel (W101)
Moonkin (WOW)
Kul Tiren Human (WOW)
Gelflings (Dark Crystal) [Work in Progress] Simic Hybrid (Custom) [Work in Progress]

[burnt valley]

That could work too for iMending

[remote wadi]

Still, what i would give to have some DnD spells irl. Not even super damaging ones

Find a way to cast silence on targets instead of an area

Then move forward into then denying the ability to speak online

[buoyant oar]

As much as I would love to be able to use some spells from D&D, I've seen enough people abuse the enchantment School in game to never want magic in real life LMAO

[remote wadi]

Could be useful for some

[buoyant oar]

We are a species that shan't be trusted

[remote wadi]

Ehh, would probably be a select few. Still, some people could really use a Silence spell irl iykyk

[marble lion]

Gimme magic

[buoyant oar]

Not that I advocate for violence in any sort of sense or way. My old man used to say and I use this in D&D all the time

"Some people run their mouth, like they haven't been popped in the mouth in a long time. That usually fixes it."

[remote wadi]

Or just cast Fly on myself and never worry about public transit or traffic again

[burnt valley]

i would want Mass Suggestion 🙂

[buoyant oar]

^ this is why magic IRL is bad lmao

[remote wadi]

Unfortunately, that seldomly works. Or is possible.

Totally agree with your old man, though. Really wish people remembered that

[marble lion]

It would be useful so gimme

[remote wadi]

I and maaaaaybe some other trusted people would be very close by with counterspell

See, THAT is a spell that would require a lot of trust or moderation

[marble lion]

Im the only one getting magic, sorry

[burnt valley]

Another incentive to go to the gym (for Constitution maxxing)

[buoyant oar]

You don't even have to go that high level.

Charm Person.

What even is consent.

[knotty pasture]

I thought gym is more str maxxing

[marble lion]

Its for str dex con charisma and wisdom

[burnt valley]

A politician with mass suggestion is a far bigger threat

[marble lion]

Results may vary though

[buoyant oar]

If readers could not tell, I have issues with the enchantment school as a whole

[knotty pasture]

So everything but int and cha

[remote wadi]

To counter counterspell? It doesn't rely on Constitution

[burnt valley]

its a con saving throw now

[marble lion]

Soon you wont. You like enchanting. Its really not a problem at all. What were you worried about? Haha

[eager marsh]

Yes it does

[remote wadi]

Ah... 2024

Curse you, WOTC

[burnt valley]

at least DMs can no longer spam it

[eager marsh]

DMs can spam every spell that didn’t change

[buoyant oar]

To be honest, that is better on counter spelling.

Especially when the wizard is the one usually counterspelling and they already have like a plus seven to their role

[remote wadi]

Either way, casting Silence on someone who very likely deserves it seems more beneficial and moral vs Mass Suggestion

[eager marsh]

Silence is an aoe that doesn’t move not a single target spell

[floral lodge]

Did my pitch sound ok?

[remote wadi]

We could probably find ways to evolve spells. Much like finding new ways to cast a spell

[eager marsh]

That’s homebrew territory then

[marble lion]

DMs can spam anything O.O

[knotty pasture]

We already found ways to evolve spells

[eager marsh]

Even spam. Delicious delicious spiced ham

[remote wadi]

Alternatively, Silence + place them in a time out box with no phones or social media

[knotty pasture]

Its called running Sorc

[marble lion]

Bludgeoning damage has never been this convenient and affordable! SPAM!

[eager marsh]

Still funny metamagic became a sorcerer thing when 3.5 sorcerer was strictly mechanically worse at using metamagic feats than wizard originally

[buoyant oar]

Tbf. IRL magic would go to Dragon Age levels of regulation so fast.

[eager marsh]

Depends how high magic and who has it but yes people in power will 100% try and heavily restrict its use outside of war

[remote wadi]

Choose something else specifically because I now take 1d4 psychic damage from hearing that franchise (how the mighty have fallen)

[eager marsh]

Just tank the damage

[marble lion]

Just become the villain

[buoyant oar]

Hey that guy can blow up a small restaurant with a low powered spell.

Off to the tower magic camp

[burnt valley]

I'd probably hope that a country becomes irl Netheril, i'd sign up for a citizenship asap

[remote wadi]

This is the dilemma of tanking. I would rather take out the thing damaging me vs just trying to tank and heal

[eager marsh]

Blowing up a building that large is actually not low level at all. With modern building scales that’s a 5th or 6th level well minimum

[buoyant oar]

Netheril Suuuuuucks tho hahahah

[eager marsh]

Congrats on becoming a slave for magic experiments

[remote wadi]

Or requires a lot of alcohol

[marble lion]

I love netheril

[burnt valley]

If you are unsuccessful on becoming an actually good mage then duh yea

[marble lion]

You are loved, Ryunosuke. Don't worry about it. Have a wonderful day!

[burnt valley]

Imma be one of the ones that live on the floating cities

[eager marsh]

Friendly reminder that the Netherese are magic [1942 supremacists]

[buoyant oar]

If you want a magic nation you want Aglarond. Halruaa, Rashemen. Or if you want older civs. You want Jhaamdath or Imaskar.

[burnt valley]

I want magic tutelage from Karsus

[buoyant oar]

Karsus. The Ape that would Fly

[eager marsh]

Go ask him. He’s in the woods to this very day since he technically ain’t dead

[marble lion]

Should have let him

[burnt valley]

magocracy bit aint that bad

[marble lion]

Gods gatekeeping is so unfair

[buoyant oar]

They didn't really gatekeep him. He just wasn't good enough

[eager marsh]

No it very much is because it’s oppressive to non mages

[marble lion]

Let mortals cook

[marble lion]

Oh so he got weavemogged fr?

[eager marsh]

Mystra literally didn’t do anything to stop him making that spell he just died trying to take the whole weave into himself