dnd-discussion

[naive cedar]

Let’s replace executives with AI /j

[feral fulcrum]

Those who Can, do, those who can't, end up in charge of people who Can.

[naive cedar]

It annoys me because people will act like marketing people are infallible and every decision they make is a smart one, but it’s obvious looking at marketing misfires nowadays that this is not the case

[tall forge]

Dude marketing people are usually not even in the same wealth class as the average person

[buoyant oar]

It gets better. The Pale Skinned people that conquered the Not Fantasy Egyptians. Were the descendents of the People that enslaved them and brought them to the realms in the first place.

[naive cedar]

Holy crap fam

[hot marlin]

I'm sorry I just lost my eyesight and now I am vomiting acidic blood. An ambulance is not enough, call an exorcist

[naive cedar]

Remember when WOTC wrote a wizard creating evil monkey people

[hot marlin]

They weren't evil.

[naive cedar]

(Yes I know it was based off of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Still yikes)

[naive cedar]

Sorry, was it the Wizard who was evil? I tried to block it out

[hot marlin]

But the problem was that the wizard did not just enslave them. The problem is that the wizard uplifted them and gave them intelligence while enslaving them.

[naive cedar]

YES thank you

[hot marlin]

So this ends up saying that the slaves should be grateful that the slavers raised them from a subhuman, animal state to a civilisation.

It's the whole "we built roads and schools"

[naive cedar]

It’s even worse than I remembered

[river vector]

I introduced a "wild magic brew" at a tavern in my dnd campaign, players decided to stock up on wild magic surges. During combat the serial killer antagonist had gone invisible and was going to escape, so a party member drinks one of the brews. He turns into a sheep. I was laughing my ass off.

[buoyant oar]

Yeah. For the realms the Imaskari came back and was like "Yo woah woah. Slavery is bad it is now banned!"

And the Mulhorandi were like:

"This whole operation was your idea."

[hot marlin]

The Imaskari banning slavery. Sure.

[naive cedar]

Honestly that could’ve been interesting if it were written in a more deconstructive way

[hot marlin]

Next you'll see the roman empire banning military conquest and France banning baguettes.

[buoyant oar]

They did. High Imaskar when they took over Mulhorand. Banned Slavery. Because their new Empress was compassionate

[hot marlin]

I am sure many roman emperors were compassionate. Yet not one of them banned slavery.

[naive cedar]

Or Canada banning moose

[buoyant oar]

Empress Ususi Manaallin's first imperial decree abolished the Imaskari tradition of slave-holding and outlawed slavery on pain of death.

She is basically Sultana Songal Draft 1

[marble lion]

I dont know if thats something to be sure about tbh

[river vector]

or our precious maple syrup

[hot marlin]

And if this lore had been written by a competent writer, that empress would have been promptly deposed, forcefully married to the new emperor who would have cancelled that decree then had her killed after she had given birth to his heir.

[jolly agate]

Druids are weird

[marble lion]

In modern dnd?

Thats a bit too dark for dnd safety

[karmic pendant]

In what way?

[hot marlin]

It would have been right at home in previous editions.

[river vector]

I thought you hated elves

[buoyant oar]

Well Ususi was a very competent wizard.

[jolly agate]

I do

[hot marlin]

Gouge out the eyes, tear out the tongue and break the fingers. That's generally enough to turn the most powerful wizard in the world harmless.

[naive cedar]

Or donairs

[jolly agate]

Not weird weird but like, curious. I still don't quite understand how they work.

[naive cedar]

Okay Atton Rand

[potent vector]

Which mechanic?

[karmic pendant]

Is it about wildshape?

[jolly agate]

like, what's stopping a druid to transform into a cool dragon?

[potent vector]

Wildshape?

[naive cedar]

I think some Druids can turn into dragons

[potent vector]

Beast's only

[jolly agate]

Yep

[karmic pendant]

Different creature type

[potent vector]

Dragon is not a beast creature type

[jolly agate]

Fr????

[naive cedar]

Oh my bad

[hot marlin]

KOTOR 2 reference. Good tastes

[marble lion]

Dragons are dragons

[potent vector]

They're the Dragon creature type lol

[jolly agate]

What abt gigant space hamsters?

[karmic pendant]

Druid does have a dragon subclass though i think

[hot marlin]

Not beasts either

[naive cedar]

Those who know the existential dread of “Kreia +1 approval -1 Approval” know

[jolly agate]

or Wyrms (idk how to type it ngl)

[hot marlin]

If you want the simple rule: In D&D beasts are animals that either exist in the real world, have existed in the real world or could plausibly exist in the real world.

[marble lion]

Druids can turn into beasts because of how a beasts form magically works and fits into the world

[feral fulcrum]

You're thinking of Ranger, Druid has nothing relating to Dragons.

[karmic pendant]

Might be ua

[marble lion]

Material plane body with soul in it

Dragons are weird
They dont have a soul from outside. Theyre all material plane

[buoyant oar]

According to what we know Ususi was the only empress of High Imaskar. Being an young adult in 1363.

Becoming Empress in 1380s

And still ruling when the Mulhorandi took their land back in 1487.

[marble lion]

Their existance is fully material

[buoyant oar]

Though she was old and infirm in the end.

[potent vector]

Not true, Fizban's explains Echoes

[marble lion]

Whats echoes

[severe rampart]

What do you mean?

[feral fulcrum]

A Dragon's Alternate Universe's selves.

[marble lion]

Why would that discredit what i said

[hot marlin]

Actually Fizban's explanation of draconic echoes agrees with Haise's point.

[severe rampart]

Ah, got it, I thought you were asking what constitutes an echo

[marble lion]

Yeah alternate universe doesnt go against what i said i think

It can coexist peacefully

[hot marlin]

Those other worlds are still the material plane.

[potent vector]

It's Planear, not just from different worlds

[feral fulcrum]

Except for when they're not.

[potent vector]

You can have Echoes on the Plane of Fire for example

[jolly agate]

What abt Owlbears??

[marble lion]

Oh

[woven flint]

Monstrosities

[hot marlin]

Yes. Because that echo, from the world it was in, journeyed there.

[jolly agate]

Or that thing that's like a very ugly Bird whit Sickles by hands

[feral fulcrum]

Mutant monstrosities, not beasts.

[hot marlin]

Dragons can cast plane shift.

[uncut zenith]

There’s one Material Plane, but multiple worlds that exist on that plane. Which is why echoes exist.

[potent vector]

Hooked Horror

[jolly agate]

Yeah that, scary ngl

[hot marlin]

Do they strike you as something that could plausibly exist in the real world? If your answer is yes, I would be very concerned

[uncut zenith]

Dragons are inherently tied to the Material Plane, which means they can exist across different worlds

[feral fulcrum]

OwlBearMan insists that Owlbears are Natural creatures and not his Mutant Army.

[marble lion]

So.... a dragons individual being is 100% material though, regardless of whether or not other "it"s exist elsewhere

[oak grotto]

I have seen weirder animals.

[naive cedar]

Why not?

[jolly agate]

I'm sure there could be an Owlbear in this world. And they are cute af, why not???

[karmic pendant]

Basically druids can only wildshape into creatures with the beast creature type

[naive cedar]

Have you seen harpy eagles

[jolly agate]

Alr, thx

[karmic pendant]

And even then druids can't even turn into everything of that type

[marble lion]

Some things look like beasts but arent

[feral fulcrum]

But only Beast creatures of certain Challenge Rating

[naive cedar]

Hot take but unicorns (minus the magic) could absolutely exist in the real world

[woven flint]

And beasts are animals that exist or have existed in real life
They're some of the only normal things in the game

[potent vector]

They are canonically escaped mutants, so not natural basically

[jolly agate]

Wait, something created Owlbears???

[hot marlin]

Nature does not care about whether or not something is cute, as evidenced by the existence of humans, aye ayes, naked mole rats and purple frogs

[naive cedar]

It depends on the book

[potent vector]

A Wizard did it (like always)

[jolly agate]

like, lab and stuff?

[marble lion]

Are there no beasts that are fantasy?

[feral fulcrum]

Well, duh? It's just a horse with a horn. That take is so hot, I'm using it to keep my drink cold.

[naive cedar]

Unicorns in old mythology are more likes goats eith horns

[karmic pendant]

This can be an answer to a lot of things

[naive cedar]

That’s a good burn though

[marble lion]

Unlike the take

[potent vector]

Why I said, it's the TM'd answer lmao

[naive cedar]

No u

[jolly agate]

Unicorns could exist in this world. I mean, we have horses and rhinos. RIHNOS, BLOODY ENORMUS WAR HIPOS WHIT A HORN

[woven flint]

Surprisingly not, unless you're a dinosaur denier lol

There's a Wizard that polymorphed into an Otter and decided to stay that way, but he wasn't an otter before

There's also a giant cat, but she's a normal cat enhanced by magic
Those are also named individuals in statblocks

[naive cedar]

Okay here’s a real hot take: intellect devourers are cute

[naive cedar]

Hippos are further proof that nature doesnt care about things being cute

[marble lion]

Dinosaurs are obviously real. I had them in my room as a kid

[wide oriole]

So quick question... If I were to play a character who's missing a hand... How would that work?

[craggy summit]

I know the otter!! Traxigor 😌 otter is my favorite animal so I freaked out when I seen him lol

[potent vector]

They're derpy. There's a difference imo

[hot marlin]

Such a body shape is simply impossible for birds to develop. If owlbears evolved from birds, they would not be shaped this way and would not have fur. If they evolved from mammals... Well, I guess maybe it wouldn't be impossible for a descendant of the platypus, given millions of years, to have a form like that.

[woven flint]

You are a lovely person
I wish you happiness for eternity 🧐

[naive cedar]

Exactly. If the platypus can exist, owlbears can exist 😤

[hot marlin]

No they couldn't. The horn would serve no purpose for a equine.

[marble lion]

Ok but bluewhales did come from a small land mammal though

[craggy summit]

And the same to you, lord of goofy 🙂‍↕️

[naive cedar]

So it is a hot take!!! 😌

[hot marlin]

In fact the horn would be a hindrance to the survival of a horse-like thing

[marble lion]

I feel like saying its impossible is a stretch

[potent vector]

Antlers existing period disproving that:

[naive cedar]

They would fight with the horn

[marble lion]

Evolution is pretty complex

[hot marlin]

Antlers serve a purpose. A single horn in the forehead oriented to the front is not the same thing.

[marble lion]

Why

[naive cedar]

I guess “unicorns could be real” isn’t a cold take after all

[woven flint]

Why would a horse need a horn to fight if running has been a key strategy to their survival as a species for millions of years?

[marble lion]

Lukewarm, take it or leave it

[naive cedar]

Lukewarm is fair

[hot marlin]

Those horns are not antlers. Antlers lock on to each other, allowing fights. A single straight horn does not lock. It simply stabs.

[potent vector]

Mutations are the engine of evolution, after that the environment selects for or against it.
Mating Selection as I will call it has proven to be able to be so strong so as to override natural selection

Including a big ah horn on a horse. If females find it attractive, it'll be selected for

[naive cedar]

Okay what about mountain goats and animals like that?

[glossy vigil]

Any tips on good talents for the Artillery Artificer? I already got fey touch

[hot marlin]

What I'm saying is that the horn is detrimental to survival.

[marble lion]

No youre saying its impossible

[potent vector]

Again. . . How much worse than Antlers do for Deer?

[naive cedar]

This is a better debate than the alignment debate tbh

[hot marlin]

Their horns are oriented towards the back. It's fine. They're not detrimental

[hot marlin]

Much, much worse.

It's alright in D&D of course. Because unicorns are not beasts, or even monstrosity. They're celestials.

[marble lion]

Horses dont need horns
Horselike creatures probably wouldnt benefit from horns
But it could still happen
And it could also end up being useful in some way

[naive cedar]

Alright fair. Could a unicorn with a pointed back horn work?

[jolly agate]

Gawd, let the horses have a horn 😔🙏

[potent vector]

So what I'm hearing is all it requires it to not be in an un-forested area.

It ain't impossible, just unlikely.

[hot marlin]

Yes. That would be fine.

[naive cedar]

Unicorns could exist confirmed

[marble lion]

There is a vaguely horselike animal with straight horns already

[woven flint]

Horselike, but nothing like horses

[marble lion]

But its 2

[hot marlin]

As proven by the rhinoceros btw

If the horn curves backward, it's good.

[jolly agate]

Rhinos are punk hippos

[marble lion]

The horn could literally just be display

[potent vector]

Oh, ofc, I thought you meant it couldn't be on the front period lol. Curved backwards is what I assumed

[marble lion]

Not every evolutionary trait is functional

[woven flint]

If you look at a Gazelle and say
"That's just a different type of horse" you'd absolutely be fundamentally wrong

"Vaguely Equine" doesn't mean Equine

[marble lion]

While i didnt say that, im still interested
What are the differences?

[naive cedar]

Gazelles are in a different evolutionary family

[hot marlin]

Actually rhinos are related to horses and tapirs, while hippos are related to whales and dolphins. That's about as far apart on the evolution tree as humans and cats.

[tulip kelp]

gazelle is cervine not equine

[marble lion]

I meant when it comes to evolutionary pressure

Not if theyre the same thing

[potent vector]

I love facts like this.

Like how salmon are closer related to us than Sharks

[woven flint]

Well, for starters, Gazelles are Bovids, therefore more related cows

[glossy vigil]

Any tips on good talents for the Artillery Artificer? I already got fey touch

[naive cedar]

Hyenas are more related to felines than canines

[hidden spindle]

Narwhals are unicorns

[naive cedar]

And bears are related to canines

[marble lion]

Dnd question

[potent vector]

Danger boof dog

[marble lion]

That i cant answer

[jolly agate]

U sure know a lot of stuff mate

[potent vector]

Ye?

[naive cedar]

More fun facts

• Bats arent rodents
• Foxes are canines
• Whales are mammals
• Dolphins are whales

[hot marlin]

I enter the dreams of scholars and scientists to eat their knowledge and intelligence, leaving them dumber as I grow smarter.

[marble lion]

No like please stop offtopic since someone asked a dnd question

[jolly agate]

Wait, how is pizza a thing in dnd?. Who even created pizza?

[marble lion]

I cant answer it because i dont know the answer

[jolly agate]

Nvm. I know the answer will be that a wizard invented it.

[hot marlin]

Even in the Forgotten Realms, making bread in a disk form and putting stuff on it is a simple concept

[woven flint]

I mean, yeah, but also
Just because things seem "Vaguely Related" doesn't mean they're related at all

Hell, Hermit Crabs aren't considered TRUE Crabs
Many creatures have evolved and adapted like Crabs because it's a highly survivable adaptation, but just because something evolved to LOOK like something doesn't mean that IS something, it's a little thing called Convergent Evolution where animals adapt like other animals

[jolly agate]

A simple yet wonderful concept tho

[marble lion]

That is thoroughly and entirely not at all what im saying

[woven flint]

I wasn't referring to you

[marble lion]

Oh

[potent vector]

I second this opinion lmao.

Wait, actually, nah, let's say a halfling invented it by accident

[hot marlin]

So anyways in conclusion: Owlbears could only exist in the real world as mammals, monotremes related to the platypus.

[jolly agate]

Ye i like it

[hot marlin]

Actual birds would not be able to go that way. That's simply not how their muscles and skeletons work. It would take an incredible amount of time. While it comparatively wouldn't take too long for platypus

[woven flint]

Owlbears are the production of a Mage crossbreeding an Owl and a bear..
Which brings up several questions

[jolly agate]

Now that i think abt it. They got cheese, tomato, ham and all dat. the existence of pizza makes sense

[woven flint]

Who the hell to the what to the why?

[jolly agate]

Ye, HOW

did they enlarged the owl??

And why?. A FLYING BEAR, WHAT'S NEXT. A SHARK WITH LEGS?

[woven flint]

I don't even want to know

[potent vector]

Chat does he know

[glass granite]

Well this is an odd topic to wake up to

[potent vector]

Does he know????

[woven flint]

A landshark, one could say

[hot marlin]

Most likely they would have used magic for genetic splicing.

[feral fulcrum]

The answer is Magic, and A Wizard Did It.

[hot marlin]

Having the bear and the owl actually physically reproduce would lead to nothing.

[woven flint]

Bulettes..

[jolly agate]

Oh god the Bulette is a thing...

[woven flint]

Bulettes are basically sharks with legs

[potent vector]

Now in 2024 with pups!

[woven flint]

I need more bulettes

[jolly agate]

At least the pups are cute

[potent vector]

Even if they're low level party killers . . . Worse than Dire Wolves 😭

[woven flint]

Adopt a Bulette pup and name them "Jimothy, Destroyer of Worlds, Becomer of Death"

[potent vector]

. . . Okay, maybe that could be funny

[jolly agate]

Alr, Would u rather mount

A dwarven armored Warboar
A Bulette
Or a Demigryph?

[potent vector]

Dwarvin Armored what?

I was unaware of the canonical hog rider

[woven flint]

The most obvious and sane answer is the Warhog because it's still just a Boar

The real answer is Bulette because we've all imagined riding a shark into battle

[jolly agate]

I was thinking about my dinner

Mb

[knotty pasture]

Oh no, now I can't unsee a Duergar riding a hog while screaming with a high pitched voice

[jolly agate]

Im going all in whit the armored warboar

[jolly agate]

LMAOOO

[tall forge]

Bullete my beloved

[jolly agate]

OR

That thing that's like a gigant lizard

[marble lion]

Demigryph for sure

A majestic eagle mount and if thats the one with wings, i can now fly

[potent vector]

Arcane Creation. Some sages believe the bulette is the result of a mad wizard’s experiments at crossbreeding snapping turtles and armadillos, with infusions of demon ichor.

So, decided to take another look, this is actually such a funny example of convergent evolution, forced or not.

And of course a Wizard did it.

[marble lion]

I like bulettes because their name is "burger patty"

[severe rampart]

What vampire do you think would be the toughest to fight in DnD? like versions of vampires from various cultures

[jolly agate]

The great pale one?, forgot the name

[marble lion]

I only know basic vampire from europe

[jolly agate]

Pale king something.. idk

[marble lion]

Dracula

[potent vector]

My mind immediately drifts to Guilty Gear lmao

[marble lion]

I know china has those walking dead ones but apart from that i dont know any vampire variations

[severe rampart]

Might I throw in the Mananangal(The Severed), during the day they appear to be a regular human and are not affected by sunlight, by night, their torso separates from their lower half and sprouts gigantic wings, along with a very long tongue, The only way to kill it would be to find its lower half

[still plover]

The thin white duke?

[uncut zenith]

You mean Strahd? He’s not that bad

[potent vector]

Slayer

[severe rampart]

Never heard of it, what does it do?

[marble lion]

No i meant thats the type i know, not my vote

[potent vector]

Or Nagoryuki

[marble lion]

Ive always felt most vampires are kinda the same thing

[still plover]

Poses in suggestively tight trousers.

-# I take it you're not a David Bowie fan?

[marble lion]

The strongest vampire i know is the ancient one from witcher 3

[severe rampart]

Oh my lord, this is the "So come up to the lab, and see what's on the slab"

[still plover]

Totally different reference.

[severe rampart]

Ah darn. I'm not familiar with references from western media, unfortunately

[tall forge]

Dnd vamps are boring

Thats why i go for homebrew

[potent vector]

Pointy Hat video looms in the background

[tall forge]

?

[marble lion]

I should watch that

[tall forge]

Looked it up

My face when what was my original idea, vampire heads of bloodlines being represented by the 7 deadly sins, was done already

6 months before i thought of them

[still plover]

Hey, we should do an adventurer version of Labyrinth. The hook is obvious, the Goblin King is an archfey and there's a missing kid to save. Just need some encounters and challenges that aren't direct rips from the film. Ping me from #dm-discussion if you have an idea, I'm about to be otherwise busy.

[tall forge]

Ive been working so hard…. Homebrewing…. Making them original… and someone ALREADY DID IT?!

[potent vector]

Lmfao, I'm sorry vro, I'm sure it's still good!

I can't believe this turn of events

[tall forge]

Eh mine are still original so i don’t mind too much

I made mine like liches, you gotta destroy the heart to kill them

And their hearts are in things represented by desires

[potent vector]

. . .
Maybe look at his Lich videos.

Particularly Bard Lich

[tall forge]

But i was having trouble making stat blocks

[tall forge]

…. no

[potent vector]

. . . Yep . . .

I mean hey, yours is a nice twist?

[tall forge]

This has happened

EVERY campaign i make

[potent vector]

Don't feel bad, this happens every time I have a videogame idea too

[tall forge]

Last campaign i made one about how traveling the multiverse destroyed the flow of fate, destroying the world

You know what came out 3 months alter?

[severe rampart]

Oh come on! I was planning to turn my Bard into a Lich!

[tall forge]

Spiderverse

[severe rampart]

That's rough, buddy

[river vector]

It turns out its easy to get a party member to side with a villain. All you have to do is say that the villain "keeps the balance" and blame rebels for all the bad stuff the villains nation has done.
Not sure how or if all that stuff was believed, maybe warlock just wanted more power and made this second pact for that reason.

[potent vector]

I mean hey, you could be optimistic and say Kirby Buckets did it first anyway . . . Or Penn Zero Part time Hero . . .

[tall forge]

im raging

[potent vector]

[Gets Resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage for 10 minutes]

[tall forge]

Ok, i know what to co

I need to go back in time, to before pointyhat made these videos

[dense nacelle]

Quick question

[rose wedge]

Nah give us a slow question

[dense nacelle]

What’s the most damage you’ve taken from a single attack as a player before resistances

[crimson gulch]

Instant death

[rose wedge]

I'm not in the demographic for that question. Only been at a table for like three months

[dense nacelle]

Yesterday I took close to 200 fire damage

[potent vector]

Around 78, from a Crit Krampus attack in a Christmas one shot.

[potent vector]

From an attack? One?

Or like. A save?

[marble lion]

I think i took like 50 from a boss crit

He was gonna finger of death me but dm felt it was unfair and didnt

[tall forge]

strongest attack my character ever took and (barely) survived.... 50

[marble lion]

Or wait maybe that was the finger of death, but not crit

[wind tundra]

Which book is Illusionsit Wizard in, for DND Beyond? If I were to try and find it

[tall forge]

but that was the 6 con wizard

[valid geyser]

players handbook

[marble lion]

Survived it though

[tall forge]

who had barely over 30 hp by lvl 12

[echo meteor]

they get a cool new ability at level 6 :/

their "ultimate" ability sounds awesome at level 14 until you realize that you'll NEVER get there

and their level 10 abilities are kind of "meh" because by the time you get it.. you can only play with it for the next sesssion or two before the campaign ends

[wind tundra]

found a homebrew variant on the site

Illusionary reality at lvl 2

Illusionary self at lvl 6

[echo meteor]

are u ACTUALLY running it?

[wind tundra]

Right now just looking at it, im a forever DM who wanted to make a character for fun tho

[dense nacelle]

Technically it was on my turn for killing hundreds of tiny explosive bugs but I reduced it down to like less than a hundred so I was fine

[echo meteor]

i dont really like homebrews but if ur the DM, have a blast 😛

[narrow goblet]

hi

[wind tundra]

Also Illusionists, heard its a hit or miss depending on the DM ://

[echo meteor]

well its cooler at level 6 bcause they get to summon beasts and fey

[still plover]

It's true. Good illusionists prepare some effects and have the DM's blessing in advance, that's the secret.

[narrow goblet]

hi

[jolly agate]

How is there still no mmo of dnd

[wind tundra]

Starting at 6th level, when you cast an illusion spell that has a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can use your action to change the nature of that illusion (using the spell's normal parameters for the illusion), provided that you can see the illusion.

where does it state beasts and fey? or is that in the 2024 version?

[wind tundra]

Neverwinter is the most popular one

[echo meteor]

Level 6: Phantasmal Creatures
You always have the Summon Beast and Summon Fey spells prepared. Whenever you cast either spell, you can change its school to Illusion, which causes the summoned creature to appear spectral. You can cast the Illusion version of each spell without expending a spell slot, but casting it without a slot halves the creature’s Hit Points. Once you cast either spell without a spell slot, you must finish a Long Rest before you can cast the spell in that way again.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/character-classes-continued#Illusionist

[hot marlin]

There is

[jolly agate]

It always happens that there's actually a cool game I didn't think existed, but it does.

[echo meteor]

Theres NO source of wtf neverwinter even looks like in the books 😭

[wind tundra]

ah 2024 version

[echo meteor]

so if the heroes decide to go to neverwinter from phandalin im just making stuff up

[jolly agate]

It doesn't look that bad, is it fun?. The graphics leave something to be desired, but it's from 2013 so I can't complain.

Is the game alive?

[wind tundra]

5e Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide?

[hot marlin]

I'm pretty sure there are half a dozen books where neverwinter is described

[echo meteor]

its not in the module that I BOUGHT though, :/

[jolly agate]

Well it's called never bloody winter, Obviously it's not going to be a tropical island innit?

[hot marlin]

Is that module set in Neverwinter?

[sonic quiver]

hello friends

the latest announcement has a giveaway attached 👀

[jolly agate]

Fr?

[echo meteor]

Phandalin. Shattered Obelisk

[wind tundra]

reason I homebrew often

[craggy summit]

Neverwinter? It has its pros and cons but I'll just get to the important stuff

It's F2P to naturally it'll be ridden with microtransactions and it can get a bit pay to win at the late game, but you can also just grind it to get around the pay to win

But I LOVE the representation of the locations in the game

[jolly agate]

It looks pretty dead to me. Barely 1k players on Steamcharts

[wind tundra]

I said most popular besides Baldurs gate, didnt say it was at WoW's level

[jolly agate]

True

[prime pewter]

Marid Genie Warlocks Genie Vessels should only be a fishbowl (/j ofc. But I'm definitely doing that for my Tabaxi Marid Warlock)

[wintry skiff]

Hey guys... do you think a paladin-monk multiclass would work or would it be bad?

[glass granite]

It’s arguably the worst in the game I’d say

[jolly agate]

i meaaaaann.... It's gonna be weird

[glass granite]

Or at least one of the worst

[jolly agate]

Because you're supposed to use fists if you're a monk, but if you're a paladin you have to use a sword

[still plover]

What do you feel would be the benefits?

[wintry skiff]

Yeah but hear me out... brass knuckles

[silk hare]

when the abserd pulls up

[craggy summit]

It'd be kinda counter intuitive. You can't smite unarmed strikes and you'd have to balance between wisdom, charisma and strength

[wind tundra]

@jolly agate keep in mind most MMO for DND would involve Milestone leveling to keep to the source material, this is a big turn away for those who like to farm XP or have less time to complete quests, and finding the required quests becoming railroady which leads to a hard game design. Plus the Stat building may feel a bit hard to balance as well, not to mention Wizard of Coast Copyright issues

[jolly agate]

Fair enought

[silk hare]

okay, still hella MAD built

[glass granite]

Your stats are split between 5 important stats, armor and weapon proficiency does nothing, your bonus action to smite is already contested

[charred quail]

A paladin that's punches stuff using the fury of a god would be pretty awesome ngl.

[silk hare]

• not really a lot of benefits

[tall forge]

im sobbing

[silk hare]

about?

[glass granite]

I admit it was a tad exaggerated, but I do think it sucks

[charred quail]

But honestly I'd probably just do a monk/fighter that's super religous lol

[still plover]

Be a monk. Take an oath.

[tall forge]

wrong server, but its in reference to this

[silk hare]

why the fighter, u can just go monk...

[glass granite]

I’d do Mercy or Astral Self monk for this

[charred quail]

Action surge is nice

[glass granite]

Not as nice as two monk levels

[silk hare]

still not worth the fighter MC

[charred quail]

I've made it work quite well.

[glass granite]

I second this btw

[wintry skiff]

Man... I saw a video and thought it would be dope

[silk hare]

just bc it "works" doesnt mean its good

you can class into every class in the game, can you "make it work" and is it funny? absolutely!

is it a good idea? heck no

[echo meteor]

I dont even let ppl "travel manually" i just tell them they can go to the quest location that are "unlocked" from dialogue and if they decide to go, they just go... becuase otherwise there would be NOTHING to do

[charred quail]

made it work as in it's probably one of the strongest character's I've made lol

[echo meteor]

or.. just make stuff up

[silk hare]

ight, good for you!
but that just means you havent played a fullcaster ever (at least in a way that is optimized)

[charred quail]

Good thing neither fighter or Monk is a full caster lol

[echo meteor]

I shoudl get into Curse of Strahd because i heard that thing truely lets you go "open world"

but its SOO MUCH PREPARATION

[glass granite]

Monks are da GOAT
(In my totally objective and not biased belief)

[echo meteor]

as opposed to more linear adventures like Shattered Obelisk

[silk hare]

valid

[glass granite]

Love what they did for 2024 monk

[silk hare]

well yeah, still not a "good" build by opt standards (/a "good" multiclass, not counting that its fun ofc, do what you want :DDD )

[glass granite]

I will sometimes take a ranger or rogue dip on my monks

[charred quail]

Well I'm not saying it's optimal not sure what your deal is honestly.

[glass granite]

Hunters mark+weapon mastery+spellcasting or sneak attack+weapon mastery+expertise

[mighty wharf]

So I stay like 60ft away from my party during combat and I want a way to communicate with them in-game that doesn't require shouting.

[glass granite]

Iirc there’s some ways to have telepathy

[mighty wharf]

It's really hard to do my character's voice shouting

[craggy summit]

For a second, I had an idea for a ranger/warlock/rogue multiclass to do sneak attack+hunters mark+hex but I forgot that HM and hex are both concentration 😅

[mighty wharf]

What if I made the internet with magic mouth

[marble lion]

well it does say never winter, not alwayswinter
that could imply its always warm there
which is tropical

[wintry skiff]

Would gauntlets work as a weapon if you used it to punch a dude?

[mighty wharf]

There was a skill called like mind link or something could I take that somehow?

[wintry skiff]

Like.... would u be able to smite using gauntlets

[glass granite]

2014 or 2024?

[marble lion]

if the gauntlets are just reflavoured light hammer? yes

[wintry skiff]

What would be the answers for both?

[marble lion]

if its armour on an unarmed attack?
uh i think not?

[glass granite]

2014:
you need to reflavour a weapon
2024:
you can smite with unarmed strikes, so yes

I don’t believe you can smite with an improvised weapon

[glass granite]

Are you a kalashtar?

[mighty wharf]

No...

[glass granite]

Then unfortunately that might be difficult (to get mind link)

What’s your level?

[marble lion]

time to talk to the DM about it

if a kalashtar can have it, so can you! with the right writing

[glass granite]

Agreed, or just a voice amplifier magic item

[mighty wharf]

That I might be able to ask my DM about. I think I could argue having integrated voice amplification just by being a warforged, even though it's not on my character sheet.

[glass granite]

Yeah that’s a great idea

[wintry skiff]

So... if i wanted to do the whole "paladin that uses brass knuckles" as a thing i just... go full paladin?... or should I go like... palalock or fighter-paladin?

[mighty wharf]

It would make sense that a warforged would have a feature like that

A sort of "volume setting"

[glass granite]

Full paladin, I’d say.

Dual wielding reflavoured light hammers, grabbing the dual wielder feat

(Assuming 2024)

[wintry skiff]

Huh... okay... what subclass?

[glass granite]

Up to you. All work well

I personally like the vision of a vengeance paladin throwing hands and knocking the air out of someone when they try to retreat

[potent vector]

There's also Oath of Glory

[glass granite]

Also a good pick

[wintry skiff]

Probably vengeance because I would want this man to be like... an exorcist type character

[glass granite]

Oooo
Holy brassy knuckles go brrr

Dip them in holy water

[mighty wharf]

Wasn't there some kind of metal that burns demons?

[potent vector]

Or Oath of Devotion (for Charm Immunity from Ghosts)

[potent mountain]

Hey dungeoneers

I just dungeoned my dragon

[wintry skiff]

True... this is a hard choice

[potent mountain]

No thats a lie I still dont have a campaign

I bet I got you

[potent vector]

I think for you, Vengeance and Devotion are the options, but there's also Oath of the Watcher if you want more Banishment stuff

Reminder

Vengeance also seeks to help victims, those they are avenging.

[mighty wharf]

I am so excited for Phantom Steed. I am a huge MLP fan, and just generally know a lot of horses in general, so I can think of a billion ponies I could cast.

I REALLY hope my DM lets me ritual cast it in 10 minutes for 4 people, with the idea that I draw 4 ritual circles but I'm only casting it once

[potent vector]

Yeah that's more of a DM fiat thing. Ritual cast Phantom Steed is already super busted

I think that's unreasonable on your end, but if they're fine with ig it could be fun

[mighty wharf]

It's ok if he rules against it. I could ritual cast leomunds tiny hut in about 10 minutes, and then be protected for the 40 minutes for phantom steeds

[wintry skiff]

So like... if we're going for the ghost idea, lets say a ghost is genuinely a good ghost but was made due to... idk she died because a bad guy killed her to hide his crimes... my paladin comes in, cracks his knuckles and says some cheesy line like "its time you confess your sins"

[potent vector]

You do realize btw you can Ritual Cast during rests right?

[feral fulcrum]

I feel compelled to mention that my Fairy Wizard is currently primed to be transformed into Basically Daybreaker from MLP (But less Cartoonishly Evil).

[glass granite]

44 minutes *

1 minute casting +10 minutes

[feral fulcrum]

And also, I like Galder's Tower more then Tiny Hut. I feel more like a Wizard conjuring up a furnished Tower to relax in, rather then a spherical dome on the dirt.

[mighty wharf]

I was thinking of flavoring my dome as a yurt.

Or maybe a cabin or teepee.

My wizard is supposed to be a bit random.

[potent vector]

Why I gonna test splitting Rests into being Lightly Sheltered and Heavily Sheltered.

Magnificent Mansion is what lets you take a Heavily Sheltered Long Rest in the somewhat dangerous area. You won't get max Long Rest benefits from being only Lightly Sheltered

[next beacon]

Do yall have any character ideas for a tiefling in a pirate themed homebrew campaign

[still plover]

Yes. A tiefling who is a pirate.

[mighty wharf]

Sounds like Rogue Fighter to me

[gritty surge]

Honestly depends on the kind of character you want to play lol

[lavish flame]

Swashbuckler Rogue. Fathomless Warlock. Battlemaster Fighter. Sea Druid. You can do anything

[still plover]

But seriously, #character-discussion is always open, why don't you announce your requirements and preferred play style there?

[potent vector]

A character can be more than their species, unless you want the species to be specifically important?

[feral fulcrum]

Galder's Tower should definitely count as heavily sheltered, as it provides furnishings and sturdy walls. It even optionally comes with heated baths and bedrooms. God I love that spell.

[potent vector]

Dam, lots of channels, didn't realize we had that lol

[potent vector]

Exactly! And isn't a Ritual spell like Tiny Hut. So the resource burn is actually real

[next beacon]

Yeah I know I don’t wanna play a bard. I’ve never played anything besides a bard so I wanna try something new.

[potent vector]

Do you take the inferior Tiny Hut rest that's free? Or splurge a little for Galder's Tower?

[torpid hound]

Campaign idea: 8 players, 4 players in a good party and 4 players in an evil party who oppose each other

[oak grotto]

Not a good idea.

[feral fulcrum]

Generally a bad idea

[torpid hound]

Why

[oak grotto]

Players fighting other players would not be a good time. Not balanced.

[potent vector]

DND is collaborative. And generally a heroic game

[torpid hound]

The two parties usually won't fight each other directly

[oak grotto]

But what if they meet each other?

[potent vector]

Maybe if they were a party of allies that were divided by their strong ideals

[next beacon]

I just dmed practically that yesterday but with 7 players. But it was more neutral and good. Never said roll sleight of hand more in my life

[potent vector]

And constantly tugged eachother along. Forced to make compromises

But outright being opposed will get stale quickly

[torpid hound]

It's structured so that they usually don't meet each other

[minor cargo]

I've actually done this before, so I can totally understand why it sounds like a good idea but here are some issues:

1. Timing. What are you going to do if one party gets ahead of the other party through time skips?
2. Favourtism: I play favourites as a DM by which I mean, I'm always on the players' side (even if I do beat 'em up from time to time). But when I have two parties, that favouritism could feel wrong and unbalanced and unfair. And it's hard to keep that in check.
3. Fighting: So you've said already that they won't actually encounter each other. But how are you going to ensure that happens? I think the only sure-fire way to do that is to tell the players they aren't allowed to do that... but at that point, I think the appeal evaporates.

[oak grotto]

Maybe. But how are both parties going to win the game though?

[loud tendon]

How would you plan to run the groups? Different times or different days? Or somehow at the same time?
What happens when they are in the same area at the same time?

[arctic bough]

Two problems with this:

1. each party group will likely have separate goals, and will act independently from each other. This will mean that story telling takes a LONG time and people will quickely get bored while waiting for "their group" to be up for some roleplay.

2. PvP in dnd is incredibly unfun if your party members arent used to it or are newer to the game. I would highly advise against it.

[torpid hound]

I give up, chat wins

[valid geyser]

in my mind, i feel like either they wont want to interact with each other, which could end up as just you running two seperate campaigns, or they really wanna shut each other down, meaning theyre gonna stop at nothing for that

it can work, but it seems like theres a lot of variables

[loud tendon]

This said, I did participate in a huge game at a convention where 4 dms ran four different groups into a labyrinth from different entrances. There were traps, treasures and enemies inside along with a minotaur.. if player groups got close to one another the DMs combined tables and the map and they could choose to work together or fight..

So it can work but I imagine it was a lot of work

[valid geyser]

yeah that sounds like a convention game deal

[loud tendon]

It was honestly super fun. But just for the one shot.

Longer term would be mounds more difficult..

[arctic bough]

Hey, I wanted to ask a basic question for a build that I am sure has already been discovered and ran 1000 times, but I wanted to see if anyone had a comprehensive sheet for the build.

I am pretty sure the highest "single target damage dealer" in 2024 dnd is a level 20 fighter with GWM but does anyone actually have that build sheet handy? Just wanted to see the damage scaling assuming you spec ONLY for more dpr and ignore all other benefits like making saves or higher AC scores.

[loud tendon]

Maybe pop by #optimization to see if folks there can give some direction.

[minor cargo]

In my particular situation, we had 2 DMs and 2 opposing parties. Both DMs (I was one) agreed on the general beats and our general plan, but obviously let each other DM it. The idea would be at the top of the volcano, the parties would clash and it would be great.

But yeah, logistics just weren't in our favour. I'm glad for the experience, but just trying to save you a bit of headache if possible. ✌️

[arctic bough]

ok thanks

[cold jay]

Lol. I was about to enter the dice giveaway, but then I realized that the prize is a dice set I already have! (The Treasure Hoard Dice)

[jovial shadow]

Galder isn't in the Core books, so most DM's likely haven't bought whatever book it came from. Also, Leomund's TH is practical, doesn't take up much space and guarantees undisturbed 8 hours rest. It can be cast as a ritual or 1 minute casting time.

[narrow goblet]

hi

[potent vector]

Yeah, but it does have weakness like monsters that dig or are smart enough to just wait until the dome goes down. Plus it's not exactly comfy, so I'd rule that only Lightly Sheltered with all that considered.

[echo meteor]

I think its silly that when people say "i want to hide" the dm tells them to "roll for stealth" right away

you should only roll for stealth when it makes a difference

[tall forge]

I mean, get it out the way ig

[still plover]

"Where?"

[torpid hound]

What even is the point of Rogues?
They attack someone from behind, deal a lot of damage and then get one shot by the target on its turn

[potent vector]

Which I'd assume it does if they are planning smth. Hiding after you do smth seems like a bad idea

[tall forge]

they dont usually get 1 shot

[still plover]

Take a look at their features. Note: bonus action to disengage.

[torpid hound]

2 shot

[tall forge]

They use the bonus action to walk away

[potent vector]

They're skill monkeys. Not every class needs to be a combat class, although 2024e does lean that way, so they could use combat buffs since they're the weakest in that area. I'm making a homebrew one myself.

[tall forge]

and a secondary martial will keep the monsters there

[jovial shadow]

There's no requirement for the sneak attack to be from behind. I only knew that to be necessary in AD&D and Basic.

[echo meteor]

My point is that when the players say, "i want to be sneaky" its better to say "okay, you are being sneaky" then when they do something that are in danger of being "discovered" THATS when they roll for stealth. To see if they get discovered.

Its a bit awkward to roll for stealth ASAP because if they roll low, they it would be like "okay nevermind i dont stealth anymore"

or, they would try to "stealth" again

[loud tendon]

Except that isnt true?

#1. Doesn't have to be from behind. Need an ally within 5ft or advantage another way.
#2 they can wear armor and generally have okay health.. so can take more hits than say, a wizard.
#3. They can ba disengage and potentially avoid retaliation hits.

[minor cargo]

I don't want to draw this into a big argument like a few hours ago, but I'll add how I specifically run it. The idea here is that this is how it works for my table and we're happy with it. If there's feedback or clarification, that's when I'm happy to reply. Thanks!

When someone tries to "sneak", basically I don't call for a roll until there's a chance they could fail. That changes based on the PC and overall narrative. But once there's a chance, say, a guard could hear them. Then I'll get them to roll that stealth check (modified based on the scenario) and the guard's passive or active perception (again depending on the scenario).

I think this keeps the game moving forward and snappy and heightens overall drama.

[tall forge]

you got weird players, mine just accept they rolled bad and continue

[potent vector]

Sneak Attack just needs advantage, which they can give themselves as a BA btw if they don't move to far.

[barren panther]

there is more to D&D than combat

[torpid hound]

Wizard dies of 1d4 overthinking damage that's not a fair comparison

[feral fulcrum]

All the people shouting X is Hyper Squishy has Never heard or seen older editions I bet. Looks at D4 Wizard

[jolly agate]

Dammit ma DM is going to kill me

[jovial shadow]

Nope. Monks only care about the bibity bop

[echo meteor]

lol yeah, i dont like that at all.. because if they low roll, even though they are "sneaking" they'll act as if they arent because they know they failed

[barren panther]

and acrobatics

[potent vector]

It absolutely is tho? They're tankier with Shield than Rogues are.

[echo meteor]

OR its a bit awkward becausae they'll just "knowingly walk into being discovered"

[torpid hound]

What kind of Wizard holds a shield?

[loud tendon]

But it is fair because they can be targeted and one shot. Excluding other classes doesn't give the rogue a fair comparison for "usefulness"

[tall forge]

have they tried.... roleplaying?

[potent vector]

Shield spell. Aka the best level 1 spell

[feral fulcrum]

The Spell.

[barren panther]

the spell

[torpid hound]

Bruh

[echo meteor]

sighhhhh 🤦‍♂️

[potent vector]

Vro, come on dudes, y'all can't keep making points without knowing any context 😭

[tall forge]

idk what to tell you man, my players role play the rolls

[barren panther]

what's a vro, I'm old

[jolly agate]

I don't know which character to choose for the next session because my imagination is too cool sometimes. In one hand i got:
A Highland cow (but the race would be Minotaur whit some cosmetic changes) that is the offspring of a cow-headed centaur and a minotaur. who is also a warlock, and has a sister that's just a regular human, with shared custody between Patrons because What patron wouldn't want a cow as their warlock?. (His primary patron would obviously be The Archfey tho)
And in the other hand i got:
A cool af bard artificer dwarf whit an enormus electric lute

[loud tendon]

Who are you speaking to?

[jovial shadow]

yeah for one round.

[torpid hound]

Pretty sure Shield doesn't increase your hitpoints so you're still dying from 1d4 overthinking damage

[barren panther]

AC, like a shield

[tall forge]

Has 6 hp 😎

[potent vector]

Specifically Blast Master and Flying Pickle, both are 0-2 today for some of these points because they aren't rly applying general consensus for their takes . . .

[torpid hound]

That's if you have at least 14 constitution

[feral fulcrum]

Then bump con, and take Tough, and realize your many options for avoiding damage in the first place.

[idle oar]

When you ask the players to roll, you're also asking for a chance of character's failing
And that's okay - the dice can help tell the story.

[tall forge]

are you speaking of older editions?

[barren panther]

nah 10

[torpid hound]

Wizards have D4 HP

[potent vector]

I mean. Wizards just sit in the back and blast. They shouldn't be in the mix anyway

[feral fulcrum]

ANd if you're basing your argument off of Level 1... then brother, everyone is Squishy at level 1. Everyone Dies.

[tall forge]

which edition are you talkin about?

[torpid hound]

While Rogues are melee attackers

[proven mountain]

Rogues can be ranged or melee

[barren panther]

D6

[tall forge]

cause rogues can often be great ranged attackers,, and wizards got d6 hp in 5th edition

[torpid hound]

By that logic Barbarians can use bows

[potent vector]

D6

[tall forge]

or... throw javelins

[proven mountain]

Yes, they can? What is the issue?

[potent vector]

No . . . ? The objectively best rogue builds are Ranged?

[wind tundra]

uses arcane trickster rogue to range all my sleight of hand and use a magic ranged spell

[echo meteor]

why cant they use bows?

[proven mountain]

I'm playing a ranged rogue right now and it's great

[barren panther]

too thinky

[torpid hound]

What

They use daggers

[tall forge]

Debatable here

[feral fulcrum]

And they have more profficiencies then "Just Daggers" brother

[proven mountain]

Not my rogue, she uses a bow and is doing great

[potent vector]

In both 5e and 2024e. They use Dex wepaons

[tall forge]

arcane trickster/magic adept feat into booming blade is really good

[loud tendon]

Wizards have a d6 for their hp. What edition are you referencing for all these opinions?

[jovial shadow]

I'm confused. Wizards used to have d4 hit point back in Basic and AD&D. What edition is being discussed here?

[minor cargo]

Hmm. I feel like there might be a misunderstanding. Like... we're all talking about 5E rogues, right? All of us?

[barren panther]

shortsword rogue

[still plover]

It feels like you've got some preconceptions here that don't quite jive with actual play.

[trail bone]

I had a player who had a rapier and crossbow

[tall forge]

ive asked multiple times and they ignore the question

[feral fulcrum]

This smells like someone who hasn't actually looked at Rogue at all.

[barren panther]

what year is it?

[wind tundra]

I wanna be a Centaur Rogue!!! XD

[torpid hound]

5E
Wizards die of 1d6 goblin damage then

[trail bone]

Mask of Zorro is like one of the most iconic rouge like dudes and he has a rapier

[loud tendon]

Chatter in this channel should be 5e (2014/2024).

Other editions go to #dnd-elder-editions because otherwise its too confusing.

[jovial shadow]

Is it the year Wizards have d4's for hit points?

[tall forge]

and a sorceror dies of 1d6+2 goblin damage

[proven mountain]

Any class at level 1 can die to 1d6 of damage depending on the number of hits taken

[echo meteor]

I still think rogues are bad :/ too fidgetty

[potent vector]

Yeah, why I said what I did earlier, while not tryna provoke anybody lol

[trail bone]

Gun Rouges also sound fun

[torpid hound]

That's if max damage and the Sorcerer has less than 12 Constitution

[trail bone]

I like magic, they aint for me ngl.

[minor cargo]

minor spelling mistake. everyone gets an opportunity attack.
/lh /jk

[wind tundra]

plays the song “Can’t touch this” while fighting goblins and monsters

[tall forge]

But youre ignoring that with wizard?

[barren panther]

Nope

[potent vector]

Vro, Casters WANT lots of Con. Do you not know how important Concentration Checks are? It's even more than that at later levels lol.

[idle oar]

It can be! Just hard to justify trying to hide when your weapon makes such a clearly distinct noise of "I am here" when used.

[wind tundra]

Can we all just agree That Artificer is obviously the best choice /hj (half joking)

[trail bone]

Ninjas used guns, if they missed...well, run.

[torpid hound]

So the sorcerer doesn't die of 1d6+2 goblin damage

[potent vector]

No, since also, level 1 HP is maxed out

[craggy summit]

If they miss, then it was just a warning shot 👀

[trail bone]

Forget reloading, just have 2 guns.

[craggy summit]

Everyone knows switching guns is faster than reloading, afterall

[trail bone]

Ykw I should get my druid a gun

[proven mountain]

The Reaper strategy 😂

[wind tundra]

Ill magically enchant my gun to sound like a “tree falling when no one around”

[idle oar]

I do want to note that we should be a bit sensitive here with firearms as unfortunately some folks in our community have lived experience where firearms have caused untold grief and trauma.

[trail bone]

Multiclass druid to get Druidcraft cantrip

And time it just right

[potent vector]

I mean.

Silence spell exists

Just attack while inside it.

[wind tundra]

Better! I’ll be a Rogue Bard Gunslinger Combo!

[trail bone]

Or have the party druid to do it. Or be a tiefling to get Thamaturgy

Wait we forgot abt the smoke and flash

[jovial shadow]

You don't get silence spells at 1st level, assuming the discussion is still on the level 1 character. I know how things tend to wander somewhere else

[trail bone]

If your rouge has a rifle at level one, his luck with pickpocket means he will be fine without it

[potent vector]

I mean in general people start at level 3, that level 1 thing was brought em when we were discussing how characters aren't as squishy as someone was implying they were.

[trail bone]

I like start at level 2, end the session with a level up to 3

[potent vector]

-# I think I'm saying "I mean" too much

[trail bone]

Level 1 feels too squishy and lacks the background lore flexibility

Also as a druid main, wildshape is fun and u get it at level 2

[wind tundra]

When a Warlock Cleric Aasimar goes adventuring because of a divorce between their demon parent and angel parent

[potent vector]

Making every character get the subclass at the same time does seem like a difficult thing. The Paladin swearing an specific Oath, the Warlock making a Pact, Sorcerer discovering where their magic came from/awakening it, the Bard finding their magical inspiration.

Seems like a lot to fit in one session, but if you like weaving that all in session one I can see the appeal

[inner silo]

a bit funny imo that a cleric warlock multiclass can have the same diety and patron

[trail bone]

Ngl I dont understand why warlocks dont have their pact since level 1

[potent vector]

The easiest way I think you can interpret it is that you're linked to the Deity personally, but also to a greater court related to them

[trail bone]

Like you made the pact to become a warlock...you should know

[potent vector]

They did in 5e.

Big discourse among the community on how that works.

[jovial shadow]

Unlike earlier editions, DM's are no longer required to play the morality role of the Deities

[potent vector]

I think I can justify it. Not cleanly, but I can.

[potent vector]

The best way I can put that is that you find things that link you to your Patron, minor powers and/or relics that are basic arts they give out freely until you reach level 3 where you get to actually earn the powers directly attuned to your Patron

That is, the things you do appease someone mysterious helping you until they reveal themselves at level 3

Maybe obvious, or not so much

[jolly agate]

Why are dwarfs so damn cool?

[torpid hound]

"Look at what they need to mimic a fraction of my Darkvision"

[craggy summit]

They got giant beards, drink beer like it's water, badass accents and are usually warriors, that's a recipe for cool 👀

[glad arch]

We got to level 6 yesterday after a dungeon and i joked a (young) dragon should come next. But as a paladin im kinda curious whats a melee class supposed to do against a dragon. I know cover and positioning (can still do the 2nd one to an extent) is a big thing against them but when youre next to the dragon its harder to just leave and find cover every turn

[minor cargo]

You do your best! 😤
In general, trying to draw the dragon's attention away from the rest of the party is a good strategy.You want to avoid a potentially devastating breath attack.

[trail bone]

Tieflings are cool

[echo meteor]

i mean, warlocks are just clerics

[hot marlin]

Have a ranged weapon.

Seriously. Some enemies simply will not allow you to use melee

[echo meteor]

can a dark being have both clerics that worship him as well as pacts with warlocks?

[glad arch]

Young red dragon has a 56 damage average breath attack, i dont wanna get hit by that either 😂

*with a failed save

[sly crest]

another Eeveelution fan?

[glad arch]

Definitally

[minor cargo]

Haha yeah, it's a bad situation no matter what. But I think having like 3+ party members all trying to dodge a single breath weapon is even worse than just one person having to grin and bear.

[glad arch]

Tough it out, got it lol

[sly crest]

I'm partial to Vaporeon, Espeon, and Glaceon and mad we never got a dragon type Eeveelution

[echo meteor]

can you multiclass as a cleric AND warlock to the same god?

[glad arch]

Nothings stopping you

[minor cargo]

Warlocks technically have patrons, but yeah. It's absolutely a conversation you can have with your DM.

[sly crest]

I definitely think there's merit to the idea of forming a pack with a god

[glad arch]

Warlock cleric is an interesting multiclass thoufh

[echo meteor]

it just feels interesting, you worship the diety that you ALSO have a pact with

[glad arch]

Not sure what youd get out of that

[echo meteor]

you'd get warlock spells AND cleric spells from the same diety

[glad arch]

Yes but now you need both charisma and wisdom to get some proper spell attacks/saves

And youre delaying spell progression for either cleric or warlock compared to a solo class

[glad arch]

I do have a ranged option, was just curious if there were better options for meleeing a dragon

[hot marlin]

There are ways. Essentially you want to prevent the dragon from using its flight speed. Reduce a creature's speed to zero, it falls if it flies. Strong winds prevent flying.

[echo meteor]

i know i just thought it was silly you get different set of powers from your same being

[mighty wharf]

Absorb elements:

I guess it only gives you resistance not immunity

[echo meteor]

heck you can even swear an oath to the SAME DIETY and become a paladin 🤣

[glad arch]

Dont think theres anything on the paladin spelllist to achieve that. And dont think im winning a grapple against a dragon either

[hot marlin]

Indeed. It's a team game for a reason

[glad arch]

Fair enough

[echo meteor]

i do see people confusing d&d to be a pvp game

[potent vector]

Not just zero, flying creatures fall if they don't move half it's speed while flying. So if they have a way to knock the Dragon prone + the slow mastery from an ally, that should be enough to ground the dragon.

That or a simple Earthbind from an ally.

[hot marlin]

Knocking it prone also works.

[echo meteor]

hellz yeah! sleetstorm!

[glad arch]

Now that i could do

[hot marlin]

Not sure that would work while the dragon is flying

[echo meteor]

y not? its range is HUGE and it got a buff to the height at the cost of radius

[glad arch]

As long as the dragon enters the area i dont see why not

[hot marlin]

Its area is not very high.

[echo meteor]

it went from 20ft height to 40 and it can be placed in mid air

[glad arch]

Its gotta come down for non-breath attacks some day

[limber trail]

Bold assumption

[echo meteor]

why can’t it be placed it mid air??

i guess you can cast “levitate” on it

[glad arch]

It says 'centered on a point you choose within range', is there any more general rule specifying it needs to be placed on somethinf

Because 150ft above me still is a point of my chosing withing range

[hot marlin]

Why? If it can keep flying around and wait for its breath attack to recharge, it will do so.

[glad arch]

Aha, you think my dm is that tactical though

[potent vector]

I just realized Umbrellas are canon to Forgotten Realms, since the material component of that spell is a mini umbrella.

I can have a tiny umbrella in my drink without breaking character

[hot marlin]

Especially if it can get underwater, or use its climbing speed, or use its burrowing speed

[mighty wharf]

You could cast a control spell like Sleet Storm (40ft tall cylinder) or Web

Not too many enemies have restrained immunity

Let me reference my chart

[echo meteor]

cause it’s not smart to be flying around in the air doing “nothing” while you get pelted by firebolts. you’re giving free actions

[potent vector]

Usually it's oozes/other incorporeal enemies, ye

[mighty wharf]

Yeah there are no dargons with restrainment immunity

[echo meteor]

legendary resistance

[potent vector]

They gotta make the save twice if you time it, tho. Since it happens when they enter the Cylinder and again when they start their turn.

[mighty wharf]

Are they really going to fight a legendary dargon at level 6?

Basic Drake Dargon.

[jovial shadow]

With web don't you have to have it connected to something stable? Ground. Wall etc?

[echo meteor]

i don’t think creatures in d&d have “momentum” and they can turn on a dime

[potent vector]

Wdym?

[mighty wharf]

That's only if you want it to be sustained. It collapses on your next turn.

If you were to say shoot webs at the dargon like spooderman

[echo meteor]

or just play a sharpshooter hexblade warlock and just smite it from 300ft and make it prone

[mighty wharf]

I think most dms would rule as long as it doesn't specifically say it needs to be on a surface that a "point within range" includes vertical and diagonal positioning.

Because a spell like Vortex Warp specifically says it needs to be on a surface

[potent vector]

I'm pretty sure yeah

[echo meteor]

depends on how liberal you want to define a “surface”

[mighty wharf]

So if it needs to be specified it's on a surface, then we can assume there's free reign when it's not specified

[echo meteor]

could you vortex warp a party member on top of the dragon?

[potent vector]

"You create a 5-foot-diameter Sphere of fire in an unoccupied space on the ground within range."
Like Flaming Sphere here

That specifies on the ground

[mighty wharf]

Creatures don't count as surfaces I'm told

[echo meteor]

probably, i’m sure dms are liberal on their definition of a “surface”

[mighty wharf]

You could probably vortex warp the dragon onto the ground though

[echo meteor]

truu vortex warp is a great spell

i always have it prepared, and it has never not been useful

[mighty wharf]

I might ask my DM to switch out one of my spells for vortex warp

It seems fun

I wish I could vortex warp myself into the air.

[echo meteor]

you can cast “summon barbarian” and sick your barbarian on the enemy spellcaster

bonus points if you ready a spell action and do it right before the barbarians initative

so he can swing right after being teleported

[mighty wharf]

My DM just gave me access to tiny servant. Time to do 3 1d6+4 attacks to an enemy every turn for a bonus action.

[jovial shadow]

What if the Babarian was eating dinner with the wife and kids?

[mighty wharf]

My DM has been wanting to see me stone an enemy to death

[jovial shadow]

That would be rude to just summon him out of thin air

[echo meteor]

gross, sleet storm is a much better use of that spell slot

[mighty wharf]

I'm already taking leomunds tiny hut, phantom steed, and hypnotic pattern. I'm running out of slots to prepare spells.

I have something super gross for control that my DM might just ban because of how evil and stupid it is.

[echo meteor]

sleet storm, fireball, animate dead, fly is good assortment of spells for 3rd level slot

[mighty wharf]

You think tiny servant is gross and you're recommending animate dead?

[echo meteor]

animate dead is AWESOME what do u mean?

[mighty wharf]

It's horrible to play with, it seriously bogs down combat and gets really stupid.

[echo meteor]

they don’t take up your bonus action and you drown them in action economy

depending on how many zombies u have

and u can dump them into the bag

[mighty wharf]

Magic Stone takes my bonus action, tiny servant does not and I can hide them after they throw stones.

I can be like Soundwave from Transformers

"Deploy!"

[echo meteor]

tiny servant takes up your bonus actions

[mighty wharf]

Not if you give them a general, lingering command

"Throw the stones I drop at an enemy"

[echo meteor]

it only does it for 1 turn

[mighty wharf]

It doesn't specify that, it says "during it's next turn, or issue it a simple, general command"

[valid geyser]

just depends on how the DM rules the commands

[echo meteor]

hmm nvm it’s vague

https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/14614-tiny-servant

on if it does the one thing, next turn, or if it does it on repeat

[mighty wharf]

It uses stack some books as an example. That's a command that could take more than one turn.

[echo meteor]

but does it stack books for 1 turn? or multiple?

[mighty wharf]

Until it's done

It says "until it's task is complete"

[valid geyser]

this just seems worse than like, spiritual weapon

[echo meteor]

interesting.. i still think animate dead is better

you can command an army of undead

[jolly agate]

What's cooler, Magic Warlock cow or Metal bard artificer dwarf?

[valid geyser]

a third level spell slot to do a single d6 damage per turn for 3 turns

[mighty wharf]

You can upcast it to have 3 little dudes that all throw stones from magic stone

The duration is 8 hours

[valid geyser]

so using a fifth level spell and your BA every turn to deal 3d6 damage a turn?

[mighty wharf]

So it's a 4rth level slot plus a BA cantrip for 3 dudes that do (1d6+int) x 3 every turn

It uses your int modifer for each stone

[echo meteor]

u can have more than 3 with animate dead

without upcasting

[valid geyser]

so thats 15 damage a turn-ish? assuming these things dont get hit by any stray AoE, in which case they are instantly dead

[potent vector]

I mean, they can hide behind a creature two sizes larger

[echo meteor]

well, i think its fine,

[mighty wharf]

I have an int of +4, x 3 that's minimum 12 damage per turn

[mighty wharf]

They're tiny, they can hide in your armor.

[echo meteor]

i just like animate dead better 😛

it has its uses

[valid geyser]

minimum damage assuming they all hit*

[valid geyser]

10 hit points.
they're gonna die if they succeed the save

[mighty wharf]

Yeah I have a +7 spell attack modifier, magic stone uses your stats when another creature throws the stone

[echo meteor]

it’s fine, just don’t animate brooms and give it some vague instruction then fall asleep

[mighty wharf]

They also serve other utility, because "general command"

Spellcasters don't use their bonus action very much, they use reactions and actions a lot more. This is huge for my action economy

[potent vector]

Average of 22.5, assuming they all hit, because of Int Mod.

[echo meteor]

depends 😭 i play a goblin and i use my bonus action all the time xD

[trail bone]

unless ur a druid

[echo meteor]

also, misty step and blade song

[trail bone]

wildshape moment

[potent vector]

They have Evasion yk?

In 2024 at least

[valid geyser]

tiny servant isnt a spell in 2024, they do not

[echo meteor]

atleast grab sleet storm! 😭

[mighty wharf]

We're playing with a hodge podge of rules, primarily the Rule of Cool

[echo meteor]

its such an effective spell for level 3

you cast it, then you sit back and it does all the work 4 u

[mighty wharf]

I don't have the ability to prepare it. I'd rather have the utility of rituals.

[trail bone]

I like the summon spells

[potent vector]

Yes it is? In Ebberron they added it???

[echo meteor]

i prefer animate dead xD

[trail bone]

summon elemental is fun

[echo meteor]

oh! but you can also just leave the zombies that you reanimated, just sitting there and let it become feral xD

once you finish your quest

[karmic mason]

What's your guys's favorite dice color combos?

[valid geyser]

youre thinking of homunculus servant

[karmic mason]

Black with yellow numbers for me honestly

[echo meteor]

you don’t need the zombies anymore, may as well just leave them there

[potent vector]

. . . Yes I am, and was Abt to comment on my error

[echo meteor]

what’s the worst that can happen

[potent vector]

Or you could just Awaken them

[mighty wharf]

I'm going to make a bit out of Magic Mouth and it's ABSURD duration. Just casually mentioning "Magic Mouth is still there btw" like 3 months later

Doesn't animate dead also require bodies to be in range?

[echo meteor]

1000 gp? 😭

[mighty wharf]

Tiny Servant is like a mini animate objects

[valid geyser]

upon casting the spell, yeah. but that doesnt mean your skeletons will die if they get too far away from you

[potent vector]

Oh, right, I forgor, there's a magic item I usually see abused to get that off lol

[echo meteor]

they turn feral

[torpid hound]

NPC idea: You encounter Boblin the Goblin, a brave Goblin Fighter that charges into battle fearlessly, but then you kill him. Then, out of nowhere comes Coblin the goblin, a charismatic Goblin Bard that tries to persuade you to not attack him. Then you kill him too, Doblin the Goblin, a Daring Goblin Monk punches you in the balls. This continues until you kill Zoblin the Goblin, a zealous Goblin Paladin

[mighty wharf]

I'd need to gradually build up bodies then though.

[echo meteor]

what’s it called?

[valid geyser]

you would have to yes

[echo meteor]

animate dead zombies don’t disappear when the spell “expires” the zombies just stick around and becomes feral

[valid geyser]

I'd argue animate dead is a good and cool spell because of the logistics it uses. I think it'd be kinda boring if you just summoned four skeletons for an hour

[valid geyser]

until you cast the spell again

[echo meteor]

yaa, but what if you don’t feel like it? 😛

[mighty wharf]

Tiny Servant summoning 1+ (2 * level) magical dudes for 8 hours

[potent vector]

Gimme a sec, finding it

[echo meteor]

what if you want to switch things up and unprepare animate dead

[mighty wharf]

Technically you can rest cast it

[echo meteor]

and just leave the zombies in the barn

[valid geyser]

then you could probably put down the skeletons beforehand

[echo meteor]

xD maybe you can put up a sign “do not disturb!” before you leave on your adventuring day

cause you can u use them again later

[mighty wharf]

Watch me get arrested for necromancy when I visit a town because of animate dead

[jovial shadow]

Yeah. A "do not disturb sign" gets followed in D&D as it would in IRL

[mighty wharf]

I'd get all the chicks with my adorable tiny servants 🗿 /j

[potent vector]

@echo meteor Found it. Staff of the woodlands. Only a Rare and can cast Awaken.

Druid attuned only

[tall leaf]

Yo

[echo meteor]

brooo, that’s awesome!

[potent vector]

Wait. You'll like this better

Pot of Awakening. It's only a Common and does only that, to Shrubs only.

[whole pawn]

Hello, do you have playlists that you would like to share? Or recommend some picks for danger moment when dragon is attacking city and players come to see it?

[potent vector]

Tales 30 days tho

It's ofc 2014 also

[mighty wharf]

NieR: Automata's Soundtrack has some magical and mystical music that would fit that description.

[minor cargo]

Personally I keep going back to the Witcher 3 soundtrack.

There’s an official D&D soundtrack by Midnight Syndicate but I keep finding myself coming back to Geralt.

[mighty wharf]

So does the Madoka Magica soundtrack, namely Magia by Kalafina.

[minor cargo]

For streams, I use royalty free music by Kevin McLeod. You’ve probably heard his music and just didn’t know it haha.

[mighty wharf]

Loreena McKennit has good like calm or traveling music, or generic combat music, that also fits the sort of magical and mystical vibe I imagine for DnD, great for a setting like the feywilds.

[echo meteor]

eyy! i want my lawyer! its not my fault the random scoundrel trespassed onto my property!!!

if anything, it’s his fault for trespassing!!!

[mighty wharf]

Aren't you technically graverobbing if you steal bodies from a town graveyard or something

[echo meteor]

also, it’s d&d… you can probably just store the zombies in one of the dungeons that you’ve cleared previously

[mighty wharf]

You'd need ethically sourced bodies. Good luck with that

[echo meteor]

not if you reanimate the bandits that you killed

[mighty wharf]

I think that'd be considered a warcrime...

[echo meteor]

you can actually take an off day hunting for bandits

[echo meteor]

is it?

[prime pewter]

I am just now realizing the irony of having a Tabaxi Marid Genie Warlock

[echo meteor]

necromancy is criminal now?

[mighty wharf]

I'm going to make a 19 slide presentation explaining why Tiny Servant is good and it's going to be titled "The Moral Implications of Animate Dead" just because of you.

[echo meteor]

aren’t the bandits robbing caravans?

their bodies are better used as zombies

it’s “self defense”, they tried to rob me

[mighty wharf]

You might have to get a necromancy permit

[junior spade]

What's the best 2024 monk...

[prime pewter]

Isa cat who likes water

[mighty wharf]

Which there's a waitlist for

[echo meteor]

i’m sure if you go out into wilderness you can track down bandits and other humanoids

to reanimate guilt free

[rotund thunder]

It really depends on what you qualify as best and at what levels you're playing, but generally I've seen that most people really like the new elements monk

[jovial shadow]

Yep. It's called Body Snatching. A felony in every state of the Union

[echo meteor]

random encounters have re quite a few

[rotund thunder]

mostly because it's actually playable now and at later levels it's a monk that can fly

[mighty wharf]

Yeah but it's not about the guilt, a bunch of guards in Faerun are going to ask where you got them and "I found them in the wild" does not sound like a good defence.

[junior spade]

Warforged chair monk that shoots spells mhmhm...

[echo meteor]

so you can leave them in the local dungeon that you cleared

[mighty wharf]

But then you need to make a trek to the dungeon every time you need them.

Or want to store more. And they only last like a day don't they?

[echo meteor]

if it’s too far, you can just leave them there

you can just get them when u need them and is convenient

you can put a sign that says “beware, zombies ahead”

so random passerbys don’t go in

[rotund thunder]

Other best option is arguable between shadow monk and mercy monk, mostly because mercy monk can do an auto poison with no save, and shadow monk because so many spells and abilities require a "creature you can see" and with the 2024 shadow monk seeing in their own darkness, they can become pretty much immune to a lot of effects

[junior spade]

Yeah I'll decide which I could choose ty

[mighty wharf]

Animate dead sounds like the clunkiest "send dudes" spell I can imagine

[rotund thunder]

the downside to shadow monk I should mention is that it can also screw over your party

[rotund thunder]

It is, in fact, very clunky

[jovial shadow]

No they will just notify the town magistrate and create a whole can of worms

Animating undead is usually illegal everywhere

[echo meteor]

well, i took precautions… it’s not my fault! i want my lawyer

[echo meteor]

is it actually?

[potent vector]

Hey got a question. What do you all think Abt Cleric and Druid's 2024 option between an extra Caster feature or a somewhat martial feature early on? Do you think it makes the classes less focused or just better at fulfilling diverse fantasies?

[echo meteor]

i don’t remember reading that

[mighty wharf]

Technically with tiny servant I can have them release motes with Arcane Abeyance and concentrate on spells to make super Microwaves

[jovial shadow]

Animate undead is an evil act.

Or act of evil

[mighty wharf]

I am already my DM's worst nightmare I might as well commit more crimes against the game

[potent vector]

Oh gosh, this question again lmao. It isn't inherently evil, just usually is because of who does it in most settings. . .

[mighty wharf]

It's what my character would do, they're chaotic good alignment

It's kinda disrespectful to the dead... imagine if I animated your grandma as a soldier for combat

[lyric bobcat]

Same here I've committed a war crime once or twice

[potent vector]

A good example of the flip side: what if I pay to use your corpse when you die via Animate Dead?

It doesn't have to be evil

[mighty wharf]

Yes let me go to the town graveyard and steal everyone's loved ones from the ground.

[potent vector]

That's evil because you're breaking the law and not asking first

Not because you're raising the dead

[hot marlin]

Nothing would please dear old grandma more than to be reanimated to be used as a tool to destroy lives

[mighty wharf]

Just get a necromancy permit and a Certificate of Ethical Animation and you're good to go

[lyric bobcat]

That's actually a good idea or you could like pay the family to use their loved ones body

[potent vector]

Or literally go around and ask if someone has smth they wanna do but they'll die before they can do it

Literally just an easier way to get you to that distant Island you wanted to explore, even if you can't experience it yourself.

Or climb that mountain you never could bring yourself to trek

[marble lion]

I think a big reason why necromancy is often seen as evil isnt actually the use of someones body

Its the soul you bring into the world

Most undead are horrifying evil creatures

[hot marlin]

Zombies and skeletons are souless.

[potent vector]

But in forgotten realms it's canonically not the person brought back

[marble lion]

Yes

[gleaming swan]

I have probable cause to suspect a DM used AI to generate their campaign they invited me into. What should I do? (nothing comfirmed, but I have my suspisions)

[echo meteor]

so go search for bandits and other humanoid creatures that are roaming the lands in “random encounter table” that attack you and animate dead. it’s self defense

[marble lion]

So what is moving the body you have under your control

[hot marlin]

But if you lose control of your zombies, they will attack and kill everything in sight

[hot marlin]

The spell.

[minor cargo]

Ah, sorry you're going through that. I think you need to do what you think is right. There's no magic answer to stuff like this. Just have to follow your gut. Good luck!

[marble lion]

So it is just pure magic?

[potent vector]

Pretty much

[hot marlin]

Define "pure magic"

[marble lion]

There is no glimmer of a being in there?

[jovial shadow]

Yup SAC explained in detail how it works.

[echo meteor]

it lives after spell expires though, u can also awaken it

[marble lion]

I thought undead were aware, to a point

[potent vector]

Which in that case might be evil (if you leave it to its devices after)

[mighty wharf]

Abandon ship imo if a campaign is even remotely similar to AI that's a bad campaign. If a DM is using AI to help them run their game for like dice rules that's a different story. Even as a rules reference AI sucks.

[gleaming swan]

Well, if you want something done right, do it yourself. Im making a campaign.

[hot marlin]

What's the difference between that and animating corpses you dig in the town graveyard?

[hot marlin]

They are.

[potent vector]

Respect vro

[gleaming swan]

Grazi

[echo meteor]

in one, corpses are those of loved ones, the other is bandits that attacked me to rob me

and probably an outlaw

[gleaming swan]

Im already thinking of a letter to write

[marble lion]

Ok then replace what i initially said about souls with consciousnesses

Necromancy brings evil creatures with it and that is bad

[hot marlin]

And the bandits don't have loved ones? The people who are buried in the graveyard are all people who never did anything wrong in their lives?

[marble lion]

It doesnt matter if youre using only bad ppls bodies, or ask permission first

[echo meteor]

clearly they are outlaws

[potent vector]

I mean. If you use them as tools what's the harm?

[mighty wharf]

It's because AI can't tell the difference between different rulesets and games when using reddit threads as a reference. It also just frequently makes shit up blatantly. It's good at die rolls and math though, like calculating odds of die rolls.

[marble lion]

Because if you lose control in any way, theyre free and evil

[mighty wharf]

As long as you know how to check the math

[echo meteor]

its bad at math

[hot marlin]

So the law determines not only the legal status of a person, but their moral status as well? Not just their moral status, but the moral status of their corpse?

No matter who writes the law and who executes it?

[echo meteor]

yes, the law typically does do that

[gleaming swan]

I literally wrote up a general layout of the campaign in like 3 days, people cant probably do that, and my thing needs polish and detail, but its better than AI still

[hot marlin]

No it does not. Law and morality are two different things.

[marble lion]

Bandits that you fight as adventurers arent just against the law

[minor cargo]

Haise, I've seen you dive into this argument a few times with others.

One thing I think you allude to that I don't think you've ever said explictly but I think is worth while: for some (maybe yourself included), raising the dead causes a disgust response. When I say disgust, I mean something that can't be controlled; it's emotional and as such, it isn't always logical - but that doesn't make the feeling any less real.

I think in D&D, in general, writing populations to be generally disgusted by zombies, skeletons, and most other necromatic spells is totally valid.

[echo meteor]

but consequence is from law, if law says it’s okay, theres no consequence

[marble lion]

And the graveyard has a high chance of the corpse you use being of someone who didnt roam the highway killing people for money

[hot marlin]

Of course zombies are disgusting. It's oozing liquid. It's infested with maggots...

[mighty wharf]

So how many single enemy encounters do you have without charm immunity? 🗿

[potent vector]

If you lose control you're not evil, you're just irresponsible.

[echo meteor]

which is why you get the corpses from bandits, goblins, random humanoids that attack you

[potent vector]

Doing things with risks is just irresponsible, not evil

[marble lion]

No i never alluded to that but its a fine point to make

[marble lion]

I agree

[hot marlin]

Yet you are talking about a corpse. The corpse did not roam around the highway killing people for money, that's the person. The person is not the corpse. Once the person is dead, the corpse is just that. Dead meat. The person whose corpse it belonged to is irrelevant, because it now belongs to nobody

[gleaming swan]

The main evidence is the person having a badge of AI Dungeon. IDK what he does on there, but it may be why his writing was bread stale.

[marble lion]

But i still say that necromancy is seen as bad, partially, because you raise evil beings, that also may break free

[hot marlin]

The corpse of a bandit and the corpse of a priest are equal. They are exactly the same thing. Dead meat that once housed a person. That person is no longer there, there is only the meat

[echo meteor]

the person did

[marble lion]

You know that isnt true to like everyone

[gleaming swan]

Less if you give me a reason

[marble lion]

Humans tend to care about emotion, symbolism and memories/legacy

[echo meteor]

depends on the religion and culture

[hot marlin]

It is true in D&D. Whether you believe it to be true or untrue in the real world does not matter. In the world of D&D, that is what the corpse is. The soul is departed, and nothing done to the corpse will change anything for the soul

[marble lion]

So you think if i started spitting on ppls corpses in dnd, noone would ever care?

[naive cedar]

Tbf I think the average person in DND has been exposed to death more than, say, the average person in the modern world

[minor cargo]

So I guess general question to folks who keep getting drawn into this conversation: What's the goal of having this conversation?

Is it just to reach a general understanding? If so, maybe it's worth double checking that everyone is on the same page?

Is it to convince someone that their opinion on this is wrong? If so, that's a much, much higher bar to clear and probably would benefit from at least acknowledging that.

[mighty wharf]

Suggestion as of 2024 is broken, you can simply tell enemies to leave RAW or tell them to let you cast spells on them. It completely destroys enemies without charm immunity. Charm in general ruins encounters like that.

[marble lion]

They used to execute people for graverobbing in the old times in our world.
People dont like you messing with their dead, even when exposed to death

[naive cedar]

I was referring more to the disgust response of seeing a dead person

[hot marlin]

Some would care. But that is not the same thing. I was talking about the actual reality, not about the feelings of those people.

[marble lion]

There are new people in the conversation. Points made can be made again

[gleaming swan]

Oh I thought you were playing a bard kinda thing

[barren panther]

I think you're editorializing a bit

[echo meteor]

feelings of the living matters more than the feelings of the dead

dead doesnt feel

[hot marlin]

The dead absolutely feel. What do you think ghosts are?

[marble lion]

The feelings of the people are why necromancy is sometimes loathed though. You cant disregard peoples reaction to the necromancy when my point was about why people dont like necromancy

[mighty wharf]

Nah, it's the powergaming Control wizards you have to worry about.