dnd-discussion

[knotty pasture]

Tbh if something is doubled is it not on steroids

What is on steroids anyways

[uncut mural]

Until they lose Concentration, which will happen eventually

[hexed slate]

I've ran games where hunters mark had the option of being cast with a 1 minute duration with no concentration or actions needed, and i haven't had negative feedback about it so far.

[humble cairn]

Good thing it didn't cost a spell slot, then!

[uncut mural]

Tru

Lose a BA attack tho

[stark maple]

huh?

[inner silo]

Are there any other socially unacceptable subclasses except the necromancy wizard?

[tawdry sentinel]

One minute no con, can't move it when the target dies.

I am going to kill this person.

In my experience, ranger's actually pretty good anyway at the levels most people will be playing.

And if you have a ranger that wants to use a bow, which starts to feel bad versus your frenzy barbarian or a fighter putting down 40 damage every round. You can easily make special arrows available.

[hexed slate]

Nah, you can move it for no action cost.

[hexed slate]

Ranger will basically always be good unless they do something dumb like remove half casting.

Extra attack + archery + druid half casting is good.

The problem is that it is badly designed.

This was also the problem in 5e phb.

Especially when paladin is right there and no unique ranger feature comes close to aura of protection.

[tawdry sentinel]

I think the grand extent of the only time I've had a ranger say he felt underpowered was because he was an ejit and never took new spells when he had the opportunity because DND beyond didn't tell him to.

And because he kept casting new spells that he'd got from his subclass, and upcasting his previous spells, I had just assumed he was doing it right.

[tame forge]

Bard OP

[real epoch]

Honestly that sounds pretty solid 😌 if no one’s complained it’s probably balanced fine at your table

[hexed slate]

Yup. Ranger balance wise is fine (probably could do with some overall buffs but other classes need it more)

Design wise it's bad. Players want to use their features.

Ironically, this is exactly the issue the original 5e ranger had. They got a bunch of features people could rarely use so it felt bad to play, even if it was strong.

[real epoch]

not him nerfing himself because D&D Beyond didn’t hold his hand 💀Yeah that’s not a class problem that’s a read your sheet problem

[prime basin]

Eh, i’d say it is probably the worst martial in the game right now (not necessarily in terms of damage but in terms of overall combat)

not that the class is horrific but i just find it to be meh

[tame forge]

Any class without a high charisma is an L

[prime basin]

So true

[real epoch]

lol yeah😂

[hexed slate]

Nah. Not even close if you know how to use their spells well.

If you just cast Hunter's mark like the class encourages, that's a different story.

[hexed slate]

Unless the DM knows persuasion isn't mind control.

[tame forge]

Doesn't need to be mind control to be powerful.

[tawdry sentinel]

I'd like if it just genetically had a pet all the time. That's the mmo archetype.

Traps, an arrow for every situation, and a pet wolf that is incredibly annoying to keep alive.

[tame forge]

Also modify memory is mind control. And amazing. GO MAGICAL MIND HECK Shenenagins

[prime basin]

You can cast what spells you wish. Every class will beat them for one reason or another.

[tame forge]

Oops my bad TTS people didnt mean to bully you.

[real epoch]

absolutely Modify Memory is straight up magical gaslight tech and it’s incredible GO MAGICAL MIND HECK SHENANIGANS

[hexed slate]

Ranger is 70% of a fighter + 50% of a druid. This is going to be good, if you know how to use both well.

[tame forge]

U can combine charm monster, nystuuls magic aura, modify memory, and awaken for true debauchery with any creature in the game. Top tier combo.

[hexed slate]

Probably worse than a full druid, but easily more useful than a full fighter.

[tame forge]

Magical monster mindfeck!!!!

[hexed slate]

At that point just planar bind them.

[prime basin]

ranger is more so 10 percent ranger, 10 percent rogue, 30 percent druid, 50 percent fighter

[tame forge]

Nahhh nahhh when using mind control they must be free not enslaved. It's far more devious.

Make them think its what they wanted all along.

[tawdry sentinel]

A common issue

"How does X work?" Asks person with X directly in front of them.

Sometimes it's like I have the PHB on the table purely as set dressing....

[hexed slate]

Compare a subclassless ranger at lv5 to lv5 fighter and a lv5 druid. 70% and 50% is pretty accurate.

[tame forge]

And then purify their minds and let the horror ensue. Thats how you create a BBEG with a backstory. Bonus points if you were using disguse self as your enemy ro make your enemy truely despised by intellegent sentient monsters.

[hexed slate]

The rogue stuff and ranger ribon features are basically irrelevant

[tame forge]

10/10

[real epoch]

not the PHB just being decorative at that point. Hmm how does this work my brother in Mystra it’s on the page in front of you

[prime basin]

how can they be fifty percent druid if the druid only shares half their spells at best with ranger and almost none of their class abilities are similar while also sharing like nothing past 5th level in common with fighters?

[hexed slate]

I don't entirely blame this on the player. Some stuff is genuinely confusing.

I.e stealth rules.

[real epoch]

Mind control wipe it clean let the existential horror hit and frame someone else with Disguise Self That’s not just a BBEG origin story that’s a war crime speedrun

[hexed slate]

That's how much of a difference their spellcasting makes, and how important it is to the class. You will make or break your ranger depending on how well you can use your spells.

Lv5 druid has 2 3rd level slots, 1 extra 2nd level slot (total 8 levels)

Both have 4 first level slots and 2 2nd level slots. (Total 8 levels)

Fighter they share all the important non limited use features with until lv11.

Hence 70% of a fighter + 50% of a druid.

Take a good dex fighter character, play them on a ranger, and take good high impact spells, and you will have a character more effective than that fighter.

5e is not a balanced game, and good spells are really strong.

Funnily enough, rangers are often better for keeping concentration on low level druid spells than druids, due to being able to make fighter level attacks while concentrating.

Overall, I'd put them at 9/13 tho, so bottom 5 class

[prime basin]

I don’t really think ranger spells are that goated. I mean obviously its better than not having spells but their list doesn’t strike out to me as insane

[hexed slate]

To be honest, almost without exception the ranger exclusives suck. It's the druid/ranger spells they get access to which are fantastic

I.e spike growth.

[real epoch]

ranger spells are solid utility but they’re not exactly wizard breaks reality tier Nice to have not usually game warping

[humble cairn]

The Ranger spell list has all of the main roles of Damage, Utility, Support, and Control. Many of the spells for those functions are the only example of it on the list so there's very few redundancies or options for stuff like different saving throws, though.

Like Ranger Control tends to be Restrained and not much else.

[hexed slate]

Ranger and druids excell less at no save control compared with 5e, but they still have some very strong options in that department.

Difficult terrain and similar effects are the big ones.

Makes them compliment wizards quite well, due to their lack of no save control until wall of force.

[knotty pasture]

Rangers have PWT, that is all

[humble cairn]

Rangers do have PWT, but they also have more than that. There are more things of significance and use than PWT on the Ranger list. Sorry, mixed up who I was replying to.

[real epoch]

that’s a good way to put it 😌 it covers all the core roles but the lack of redundancy kinda locks you in If you don’t like that damage spell or that control option tough that’s the one you get

[hexed slate]

I am still sad about the power word tiptoe nerf.

It was needed, but I'm still sad about it.

[knotty pasture]

There's not a lot behind Ranger spellcasting besides PWT PWT PWT Spike Growth, PWT PWT PWT Spike Growth...

[hexed slate]

Goodberry

[knotty pasture]

Good one

[hexed slate]

Entangle

[knotty pasture]

Eh just Spike Growth lol

[humble cairn]

Totally not true in my experience. I use so many of my spells that I'm running into a lot of decision paralysis when swapping spell out each day.

[hexed slate]

Absorb Elements

Fog cloud is underrated

[humble cairn]

I used Absorb elements so much that I invested in scrolls so I could switch to other spells.

[real epoch]

basically yeah PWT Spike Growth is the Ranger spellcasting experience in a nutshell

[hexed slate]

Aid is good
Summon beast isn't that good but it is cast-able

[humble cairn]

Not in my experience.

[real epoch]

hmm okay

[hexed slate]

Conjure Animals
Conjure barrage after the buffs is cast-able
Plant growth is still crazy

[humble cairn]

Summon Beast is nice, extra damage that I can move around without using a Bonus.

[hexed slate]

Revivify

Conjure woodland beings

[humble cairn]

Oh yep, I had to Revivify a teammate as well.

[hexed slate]

Guardian of nature

[humble cairn]

Even Speak with Plants was actually useful!

[real epoch]

had to drop a Revivify mid game too always a lifesaver😂

[humble cairn]

Speak with plants is not an everyday spell, but I had a feeling it would be useful one day so I prepared it and lo and behold, it was a big plot point.

[pseudo jay]

question, would anyone be willing to pop onto a call with me and help me make this dnd character foir a 1 shot that we are joining tonight in pearson? Its very last minute. And its using dnd 2024 rules so i am a little lost. I think i am doing it right but could use guidance

[knotty pasture]

Absorb Elements is a good one, comes so second nature for me that I didn't register it as a spell at first

[humble cairn]

Also for the hexcrawl portion of our campaign, Animal Messenger and Water Walk was very important.

[hexed slate]

That's pretty much the list of ranger spells I would ever cast.

It's easily the best half caster spell list, and it's not particularly close.

Compare this with paladin, where my list would be:

Bless
Protection from good and evil
Command
Find steed
Aid
Revivify

And that's it

[humble cairn]

We were able to traverse the riverways without having to buy a boat. Two smaller rowboats pulled by mules was cheaper.

[knotty pasture]

Your Paladin has a bigger variety of spells than mines, which is Bless, upcast Bless, upcast Bless even harder

[remote wadi]

Random Absorb Elements

[humble cairn]

Playing Paladin made me very conscious of the Smites which were not Concentration.

Which I have forgotten, but still I know there are some good ones.

[hexed slate]

Or artificer, who gets

Guidance
Absorb Elements
Web
Aid
Rope trick
Revivify
Transmute rock

And that's it.

[humble cairn]

I really liked Catapult on my Artificer.

Makeshift low level Telekinesis.

[hexed slate]

Catapult is fun, but i would be casting it because it's fun not because it is good.

[humble cairn]

Could be used to snatch unattached objects in a pinch.

[humble cairn]

Dropped vials of oil on the floor to use for Catapult. Smashed target with it, covered them in oil, then proceeded to use fire bolt and get +5 damage on each bolt.

[hexed slate]

But yes, ranger spell list is very, very good for a half caster, curtesy of all the good druid spells they get.

[hexed slate]

That's fair. I forgot about oils after banning them.

[humble cairn]

You banned oil?

[hexed slate]

I banned oil

[humble cairn]

Why do you hate fun?

[glad arch]

Arent all smites concentration except divine?

[humble cairn]

Nope, but the list of non-conc Smites got bigger after 2024.

[hexed slate]

Compare oil to hunters mark. Then realise oil can be thrown by pets.

[humble cairn]

I repeat, why do you hate fun?

[glad arch]

In 2014 too?

[hexed slate]

And, due to the effect not being magical, it stacks.

No, Spellcasters do not get +20 damage to every fire attack after 2 rounds.

[humble cairn]

Go look at the spells list online, most of the smite spells should be free to look at.

[hexed slate]

Smites are honestly about as bait as hunters mark, they just are non concentration and so less punishing.

With the exception of using them on critical hits

That's fun.

[uncut mural]

Intended tho

Pump max spell slot for big dicerolls

Incredibly satisfying

[knotty pasture]

Divine Smite is always stuck to a Paladin so its not like you're sacrificing a spell slot or anything there

Just don't use it unless you scored a crit

[hexed slate]

Yup

Smites are what I wish hunters mark was like.

A not fantastic feature, but it's satisfying to use and doesn't reduce other options

[uncut mural]

Very true

[tame forge]

War crimes are my specialty.

[mighty dove]

Hey can someone answer me so i can see if my messages are actually getting sent?

[remote wadi]

So, next 2024 campaign coming soon won't have Tasha's features

No Quickened Healing or Focused Aim for my monk

Good thing I'm a Mercy Monk

[tame forge]

They arent sending. Try CTRL-R

[real epoch]

oh i got it

[mighty dove]

Damn, i'll try again later

[remote wadi]

Seriously. The hands of healing and harm are pretty cheap ways to do great damage and healing

[real epoch]

Hands of Healing and Harm are super efficient cheap but insanely effective for both damage and healing

[tame forge]

Straight up murder and revivify is the most horrific combo in 5E

Clerics make the best torturers.

[remote wadi]

Ehhh, don't count on it. Murder is more Open Hand. And both that and reviving is level 17

[tame forge]

I can do it at level 12 on my cleric?

[real epoch]

Murder + Revivify is peak horror energy kill em bring em back repeat 💀

[remote wadi]

I was talking about Monk

2024 campaign won't have Tasha's features

[tame forge]

Oh the horrors a mortal coil can endure... what lovely darkness we can evoke from the most beautiful being.

[real epoch]

yep thats right

[remote wadi]

But I still have healing thanks to being a Mercy Monk and Heightened Metabolism

I will also keep the others alive because Origin feat Healer

[real epoch]

that’s beautifully twisted the darkest chaos from the most radiant source

[tame forge]

Anyone can be evil with the right "motivation" (trauma... i am talking about utter and sincere psychological and physical trauma).

[real epoch]

Mercy Monk + Heightened Metabolism keeps you healed and Origin Healer feat lets you keep the squad alive too solid support build

[real epoch]

anyone can turn evil if the trauma’s deep enough real psychological and physical scars can push people to dark places

[tame forge]

Believe it or not I work at a cancer lab and am a completely sane and very nice person IRL.

:3

[real epoch]

oh

[real epoch]

who become evil while listening to your truma?

[tame forge]

Oh no trauma here. Just want to watch the world burn for entertainment.

[humble cairn]

2024 Monk does very well on it's own without those anyway.

[glass granite]

Really?

Ah well

[burnt echo]

Hungry girl and the humans daddy skins

[real epoch]

hmm right

[uncut mural]

True

Focused Aim was nice tho, might ask my DM for it when I hit lvl 5 for my own Monk.

[remote wadi]

Yeah. Something about keeping it as close to 2024 as possible (ignore the fact multiclasses are banned)

[glass granite]

Monks aren’t great multiclassers anyway

Though I do hope you enjoy 2024 monk, I found it very fun

[remote wadi]

All it really needs is another good secondary healer. A funny one lowkey would be Wizard with Life Transference

[reef tundra]

:(

[remote wadi]

Well, yeah. Just a little funny to hear the reasoning being to "prevent broken combinations"

Like we don't have any broken mono classes in 2024

[glass granite]

What are yalls thoughts on Aasimar btw

[hidden spindle]

That's too bad. Tasha's a supplement and '24 borrows a lot from Tasha's anyways so you're good

[reef tundra]

I like <3

[glass granite]

I don’t see them too often but I find them rlly cool

[hidden spindle]

Aasimar allows me to play any creature/species I want RAW; just small or medium sized

[reef tundra]

And it’s Tasha so it’s automatically peak /lhj

[remote wadi]

I hate it purely for the fact the first time our Paladin uses it, I took 2 radiant damage

Half joking

[glass granite]

I particularly like the flight and flavour

[hidden spindle]

It is too bad Aasimar are not in the SRD though

[glass granite]

Tis a shame

[hidden spindle]

Whenever I think about flight for species, the next closest to an Aasimar is Dragonborn

[glass granite]

Yeah, considering it’s temporary flight

[reef tundra]

Aarakocra enjoyers dying rn /j

[arctic gate]

Wow... this server's so big

[glass granite]

Welcome to the server!

[arctic gate]

Hi

[hidden spindle]

'24 PHB species

[glass granite]

It’s a tad quieter rn cuz the American users are asleep, but it’ll get busier

[arctic gate]

I've spent literally 1 minute in this server, and it's already more welcoming than 99% of servers I've been to lmao

[glass granite]

Well, a lot of them are asleep

[reef tundra]

Rip people expecting Aarakocra to be in it

[knotty pasture]

Birb

[reef tundra]

Barbs, my preciouses

[glass granite]

Birb go up, Birb happy
Now, Birb barbs

[remote wadi]

It's a dang shame most modules barely get past the beginning of tier 3 play

[reef tundra]

Birb barb

[glass granite]

Birb barbs bash

Birb barbs bash n’ bonk

[reef tundra]

To be fair it does match most campaigns doing that too. But I do think there should be more modules that go further

[glass granite]

I’ve run a whopping 0 modules

[reef tundra]

Especially considering how many incredibly powerful lore figures there are in dnd

[reef tundra]

I’ll make you run mine 🪓

[glass granite]

Oh that could be fun

[real epoch]

just another solid secondary healer and you’re golden Wizard with Life Transference would be a hilarious lowkey choice too

[hidden spindle]

Arcane Vigor for the ultimate healer

[reef tundra]

I’ll send you the PDF. When I finish it in… a century

[remote wadi]

Agreed. It's a shame looking at things in levels 13-15 and knowing that I'll rarely, if ever, experience it

[glass granite]

I ain’t an elf Amity, I don’t think I’m living that long

[reef tundra]

I’ll reanimate you

[hidden spindle]

One century later...

[glass granite]

The Nugget has gone moldy…

[reef tundra]

Yup. I’ll ask my husband for a favour

[glass granite]

How touching

[glad arch]

I might be stupid because they all say concentration in 2014

[glass granite]

Wait what

[reef tundra]

I’m sure my wife is capable of necromancy but I think my husband’s expertise on it makes him more qualified

[arctic gate]

So uh... this server is just abt D&D stuff discussions?

[reef tundra]

A crazy amount of 2014 smites are concentration

[reef tundra]

Pretty much. But we have places for homebrew, world building, sharing advice, looking for game, etc

[idle oar]

Yes. As the official D&D Discord server ran by WoTC, we discuss D&D here

[reef tundra]

Check out the channel list

[glad arch]

Afaik all of them except divine smite. But ive been told not all of them but can not for the life of me find a 2014 smite that isnt concentration

[glass granite]

( #channel-guide )

[reef tundra]

What about thunderous smite?

[arctic gate]

Yeah, that's... a lot

[reef tundra]

(Ty)

[hidden spindle]

Yup. I believe it if it was not Divine Smite, it was a 'commit' cast & then strike.

[glad arch]

Nope

[glass granite]

Not seeing it for searing smite either

[glad arch]

Are we looking at different books??

[reef tundra]

I ain’t even looking at a book I’m just going off of memory

[arctic gate]

I decided to try and learn more abt D&D thru a discord server, cos one of my professors at school decided to host a session lmao

[reef tundra]

I haven’t played 2014 rules in about a year

[hoary totem]

how good is undead warlock

[reef tundra]

I love it. Power wise, not sure

[arctic gate]

So I legit don't know much abt the game XD

[glass granite]

Wanna learn the rules?

[knotty pasture]

Second best

[idle oar]

If you're new to D&D you might want to check out #learn-to-play and #dnd-newcomers

[arctic gate]

Sure

[knotty pasture]

Not to be confused with Undying Warlock which is the worst Warlock subclass

[glass granite]

Read up on the first few chapters of the free basic rules on #learn-to-play , and feel free to ask any questions you might have. Then, make a practice character and get it reviewed in #character-discussion .
And yeah ask #dnd-newcomers for help

[glad arch]

2014 searing smite? Because i know 2024 changed them up a bit

[glass granite]

Free basic D&D rules: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/free-rules

[reef tundra]

IIRC 2014 searing smite definitely is concentration. But not 2024

[hoary totem]

Quite obviously

[glass granite]

It is?

[reef tundra]

It is

2024 vastly improved it simply by not making it concentration

[glad arch]

Theyre all concentration incase you miss your attack it carries over to next round

[glass granite]

Noted

[glad arch]

Unlike the 'blade cantrips' in which you attack as part of the spell

[glass granite]

Booming blade my goat

[reef tundra]

Green flame blade my goat

(Bring it back, wizards, please 🙏)

[glad arch]

I see the 2024 changes, they made some of them retroactive but costing a bonus action

[hidden spindle]

Divine Smite & Eldritch Smite, technically neither of them are Spells

[reef tundra]

They always costed a bonus action iirc

[glad arch]

Fair enough

[glass granite]

Yeah all the smite spells did

Anywho gn folks, my bed mimic Ted says hi

[humble cairn]

You're not stupid, it looks like they are all Conc in 2014. Not so in 2024.

[steep spoke]

Is there a place here that I can look for campaigns to join? I Dm but I kinda want to play for a change

[humble cairn]

You no longer have to imbue them into your weapon and then hit. When you hit you can just choose to enhance that hit with any of your smite spells.

I like it, it basically gives you different kind of ammunition in your gun whenever you prepare them.

[undone rain]

I for some reason want a d20 despite me playing dnd on discord

[glad arch]

That does sound a lot better

I actually think thats strictly a buff compared to 2014 isnt it

[eager marsh]

There's the nerf that you can only smite once per turn now. and you can't combine other smite spells with divine smite (which is also formally a spell now)

[glad arch]

Fair enough, hadnt considered that part

[exotic sinew]

What apps and stuff work well on a tablet for online dnd

[eager marsh]

it's a perfectly fair change but a lot of people are mad they can't just nova burst as hard anymore

[remote wadi]

It is a really fun way to play, though

Closest thing we got to a class burning twice as bright and half as long is Warlock

But even that is Eldritch Blast Simulator

[exotic sinew]

I like most of the changes 2024 made cause it tries to balace a lot of thing and improve otger things

[hidden spindle]

You could Eldritch Smite & cast a Smite Spell~

[remote wadi]

A little curious, though

Why people say Ranger is the worst class when Barb is right there

[pallid vigil]

hey everyone, im new to dnd, never played, got bored and finally made a charecter.. what channel would I post him in for help/advice

[remote wadi]

Also, this is some good chili oil, holy moly

[stuck shuttle]

Try asking in #character-discussion !

[remote wadi]

Most likely either #character-discussion or #dnd-newcomers

[hidden spindle]

I would stop listening to what others say and just play

[exotic sinew]

Barbarian isn't bad??

Also I am playing a ranger they aren't that bad right.........

[remote wadi]

Nah, this is also partially discourse in my head

[hidden spindle]

Personally, I think the worst class is Wizard.

But I keep it to myself

[remote wadi]

It isn't bad by any means, but a solid chunk of content past level 8 or so is barely comparable

And a small chunk of his core kit is either weaker or counterintuitive

[exotic sinew]

Oh I am doing wild beyond the witchlight so that is only 1-8 anyway

[remote wadi]

Think of it like this. Unarmored Defense is Dex and Con. But you can't invest in Dex because Barbs try to use Str to attack

[pliant matrix]

How do I use the looking for a dm command?

[acoustic briar]

Classes are only bad if they clash with the game style, like a monk or warlock in a game that does not do short rests.

[remote wadi]

You are expected to be tanking a ton of hits, but are ironically taking more physical damage than if you just had great AC

(Being a d12 when other martials are a d10 or occasional d8 doesn't help either)

[pallid vigil]

ty! sadly, slow post+charecter limit is scrweing me so yea

[exotic sinew]

But you take half damage while raging so if counters that doesn't it

[pliant matrix]

Can someone help me?

[noble basin]

bandaid help

[remote wadi]

Wouldn't you rather take 0 damage because you could just get better AC?

[hidden spindle]

Taking 0 damage is not the same as not taking any damage.

It's minute but it matters when/where it does

[remote wadi]

Paladin with Chain Mail, shield, and a Defense FS is what? 19 AC?

[stuck shuttle]

Have you read the instructions in #find-a-game yet? The command to run to post in #looking-for-dm is found there

[exotic sinew]

Where is the fun in having a 30 AC so no one can ever hit you

[pliant matrix]

Thanks

[noble basin]

idk bout you but thats a pretty common fantasy to be the knight clad in full plate and just not getting hit

[remote wadi]

And the most you could get from average medium armor is 17 from a somewhat expensive half plate

And if you are using shield, you then are not benefiting from dealing damage as much because you're not using a heavy 2 handed weapon like a Pike or glaive

[stuck shuttle]

There are many other ways to challenge someone with high AC anyway

[remote wadi]

That's what I am saying. It's not that barbarian is worthless or unusable. But a solid chunk of him is just... counterintuitive

[stuck shuttle]

I think what Barbarian lacks the most is a true taunt.

[noble basin]

ancestral guardian tries it best

[stuck shuttle]

My poor poor soft taunts 😭

[exotic sinew]

Idk I like barbarians they are funny

[remote wadi]

Even if he had that, he wouldn't be the best at tanking overall

[noble basin]

yea thats fair i mean not every game is gonna go into it like this

[remote wadi]

No heavy armor like Paladin or Fighter, no healing like Cleric, and definitely no good saving throws to deal with tanking bigger hits

[exotic sinew]

I am newer to dnd ain't much of a number cruncher and min maxing person

[remote wadi]

I can get behind that. Play who you want to

[hidden spindle]

Sounds like a Wizard

[noble basin]

advantage on initiative and dex saves doesnt hurt ya feel

[remote wadi]

Wait, what?

[noble basin]

doesnt save it of course but shrug

[exotic sinew]

I am a ranger 😢

[noble basin]

for barb i mean

[remote wadi]

Ah. Danger sense

[remote wadi]

Niiiiiice

[hidden spindle]

I don't try to yuck anyone's yum

[remote wadi]

Anyways, just kind of sucks for Barbarian because the more I look at the class, the more it feels like WOTC didn't think it through much

[exotic sinew]

Idk what that means

[hidden spindle]

What I mean is, why the long face? Cheer up~

[remote wadi]

Although, what i do find pretty funny are how quick and agile monks are. Probably the last guys to upset when running away is the only valid option

[undone rain]

Thats the best part

[exotic sinew]

In my opinion though the rage counteracts the need for high ac. Hypothetically you have 20 hit points and so does your fighter. Your fighter has a 19 AC you have a 15.

When you rage you have technically 40 hit points now cause the damage you take is Halved

So with that yes you may get hit more but it would take 2 hits on you (average damage) to deal the same a lot of damage to the fighter in one hit.

[remote wadi]

Until you Dex save

[undone rain]

Shhh we dont talk of dex saves

[exotic sinew]

I am happy I like my character a lot but idk people hate on Rangers a lot. I just liked the sound of it and thought it was a cool thing to play a fey wanderer ranger whilst doing wild beyond the witchlight and being a harenegon cause it’s like al fey shit

[remote wadi]

I will note that this is non magical physical damage only

If you really wanted to negate solid chunks of physical damage, I can stack that already better AC with Heavy Armor Master + Heroism

[hidden spindle]

Its cause you're having fun and they're wondering how

[knotty pasture]

Healing during combat is designed to never outheal enemy damage output anyways, rage damage resistance + medium armor > heavy armor in terms of how well it tanks

[remote wadi]

So in addition to being... 10? 15? 20 percent less likely to hit, I can negate 6 points of damage from physical

[knotty pasture]

There's no best tank per se cuz everyone gets shredded under focus fire

[exotic sinew]

Okay I did not know that it was only non magical

[hidden spindle]

It is magical or nonmagical

[remote wadi]

TLDR: people really underestimate versatility, especially when it's super easy to play in a crowded unorganized party

[remote wadi]

Yep. Not really the best form of tanking

[exotic sinew]

Okay now I am confused

[remote wadi]

What about?

[exotic sinew]

Brain hurt. 😵‍💫

Shye said it’s magical and non magical

[hidden spindle]

Its just resistance to BPS without any indication of whether it needs to be magical or nonmagical

[remote wadi]

Ah. So for BPS (bludgeoning piercing slashing) damage...

Some things like magical weapons or effects will be magical. Short for "magical for the sole purpose of ignoring resistances and immunities"

Long story short, 2014 Rage only resisted non magical

2024 made it resist both magical and non magical

[undone rain]

People just hate it when you have fun with your classes

[exotic sinew]

While active, your Rage follows the rules below.

• Damage Resistance: You have Resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing damage.

Yea it doesn’t specify magic

[remote wadi]

Then idk what he's talking about

[exotic sinew]

I am so confused…….😵‍💫

What do you mean magical weapons just ignore resistance

[remote wadi]

Me, I just like to have classes work well thematically without lowkey sandbagging

[hidden spindle]

#dnd-discussion message

[remote wadi]

We checked Rage, and it said nothing about working against magical physical damage too

[remote wadi]

As an example...

Werewolves have immunities to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage

However, casting the spell "Magic Weapon" or using silvered weapons can bypass this immunity

[minor cargo]

(I can't really tell from this conversation, but maybe is there confusion between 2014 and 2024 rules? They're slightly different with rage. Even with werewolves and their damage immunity.)

[remote wadi]

A bit of a misunderstanding, apparently

[exotic sinew]

So you are saying that a 2014 monk (I know 2024 changes how it works) can punch a werewolf at level 6 and because their punches are “magical” it is not longer immune to the bludgeoning damage?

[remote wadi]

For 2014, yes

2024 is very similar because while it is just changed to potentially force damage, very few things resist or are immune to force damage

Effectively the same thing

[exotic sinew]

I did not know that’s how magic items worked ain’t gonna lie I thought it was like is I had a +1 longbow it was just that a long bow that game me a +1 to attack rolls and damage not that it had anything to do with bypassing resistance and immunities to that type of damage

[remote wadi]

By the way, wanted to ask chat

2024 Healer feat let's you reroll 1s on the healer kit special and healing spells

[hidden spindle]

To clear it up, you mentioned Rage is only for 'non magical physical damage only' and I was saying, there's no indication on whether it has to be be magical or non magical

[remote wadi]

Ohhh. I gotcha

But for the record, most magical physical damage will just bypass anyways

[hidden spindle]

Colloquialism is why Bonus Action Casting Spells was a... mess

[remote wadi]

Anyways, back to this. Does the hand of healing from Mercy Monk count towards this?

[hidden spindle]

Is it a Spell or Healer feature?

[remote wadi]

Part of healer Feature for 2024 is the rerolling 1s on the active part of the feat and healing spells

[languid ingot]

I could probably choose a druid subclass that better fits this character thematically but oooooooo i like moon druid. Wildshape my beloved

[minor cargo]

I will say that the way the 2014 werewolf's immunity is written is not super clear. I would say 9 times out of 10, it causes confusion with my players/other DMs I talk to.

They should've used more words to make it more clear such as:

Damage Immunities Bludgeon, Piercing, and Slashing from Nonmagical Attacks; nonsilvered nonmagical attacks.

[exotic sinew]

Does the hand count as a spell?

[remote wadi]

It uses Ki/Focus

But it does say it needs a magic action

So I'm leaning towards it counting

[exotic sinew]

Feat healer:

Healing Rerolls: Whenever you roll a die to determine the number of Hit Points you restore with a spell or with this feat's Battle Medic benefit, you can reroll the die if it rolls a 1, and you must use the new roll.

Level 3: Hand Of Healing (Warrior Of Mercy)

As a Magic action, you can expend 1 Focus Point to touch a creature and restore a number of Hit Points equal to a roll of your Martial Arts die plus your Wisdom modifier.
When you use your Flurry of Blows, you can replace one of the Unarmed Strikes with a use of this feature without expending a Focus Point for the healing.

I would say cause it is technically a magic action yes you can reroll the 1s

[humble cairn]

People like to indulge in "worst/best class" comparisons which is generally unhelpful. The true worth of a class is how fun it is to play, which means it's subjective to the individual player.

[exotic sinew]

But why would you take healer over tavern brawler for the origin feat?

[remote wadi]

1. My character is more in line with a physician than a troublemaker

[humble cairn]

Rangers are great! Ignore the internet chatter and have fun with it!

[remote wadi]

2. Being able to reroll 1s offensively is decent, but it can quickly evolve into not needing to thanks to dex modifiers, hand of Harm, and being more focused on stuns and topples

[remote wadi]

Fair enough. Although these can become decently long and stimulating conversations in my head, which is very much welcome for long shifts at work

[exotic sinew]

Ahh I see. I took alert for my monk not so that I personally could get good initiative but mainly for the swap just incase we needed it

[hidden spindle]

I'd rather talk what the 'best' is, which while also subjective

[humble cairn]

Comparing how well classes do certain things is fine, but broad statements of "X is the worst class" do nothing but confuse and turn off new players as is evident with what's happening to ItsFatRabbit.

[remote wadi]

I chose to stick with Healer because it does allow me to pick a good third proficiency. I already will have prof with Herbalism Kit and probably Cook's Utensils

[exotic sinew]

Have to say being able to use one of the flurry of blows to heal without spending an extra focus point is neat as well

[humble cairn]

And it's a freaking tragic shame when new players choose not to play a class that they would absolutely have fun with because of stupid internet chatter.

[remote wadi]

Okay, the confusion is because I keep struggling to remember how easy semantics can trip anything up

But fair

[remote wadi]

Oh, yeah. That's why I said for clarity's sake that they should play who they want

[minor cargo]

Because this server is so big and the hobby is so wide and deep, sometimes, yeah, a slip of language can spiral into confusion. It's not a bad thing per se, just something to keep in mind. It happens to all of us. And it'll keep happening lol.✌️

[humble cairn]

This little caveat doesn't really help wwith the hyperbole of "X is the worst class" is floating out there, which is why I really wish people would stop doing it.

Nobody wants to play "the worst class" when they just start and don't know anything.

[exotic sinew]

I will say though it is very frustrating to have someone at a table that struggled with playing a fighter which is basically just “hit thing with big sword” and then they want to play a full caster and you are like ummmmmmmm is that the best idea sir 😳

[remote wadi]

Fair, fair. Although things that are more fun to think about are the cheapest and most expensive classes for investment

[hidden spindle]

Eldritch Knight!
Magic Initiate!
Fey-Touched or Shadow-Touched

[humble cairn]

Saying that a class might not fit a player is fine, it's more nuanced than just painting a whole class as bad.

[remote wadi]

But yeah. Healer Feat is great thematically

And great to keep the team on their feet without burning valuable focus points

[empty thicket]

It happen, until trying a bit of everything and finding that sweetspot, take time.
Like finding a good group where everybody are good with each other and have tons of fun

[hidden spindle]

I will say... that is counter intuitive:

Because you're healing them, removing any urgency to Short Rest

[exotic sinew]

I suggested this but they were keen on playing a full caster and cause they are younger and very very new and well also it’s at my local game store who are technically “adventurers league” it’s not like we as players can flat out tell them no idk 🤷‍♂️

[remote wadi]

Because remember. At level 11, you are likely to heal an average of... 28 HP while also curing 5 status types as a BA is pretty nutty

Especially it only costing 1 Focus/Ki point

[exotic sinew]

You can still take a short rest to restore warlock spell slots and focus points and stuff you don’t only have to short rest to heal a bit

[hidden spindle]

Let them be full casters~ Somethings just flow better. Some like to hit. Some like Magic. It just hits their fantasy fancy

[remote wadi]

Explain

[hidden spindle]

Why Short Rest at all?

To heal with Hit Die

[exotic sinew]

Well it’s not like there is a limit to them

[remote wadi]

Well, yeah

[hidden spindle]

There is a limit

And Monks want Short Rest for Focus Point

[exotic sinew]

You don’t have to use your hit die if you don’t want to

[remote wadi]

Not to mention Healer feat only allows you to use one Hit Die when reviving someone

[empty thicket]

Fast question, if i take Pact of Tome (warlock) i can take any kind of spell from any list. Aka, Cleric list too?

[exotic sinew]

Short Rest

A short rest is a period of downtime, at least 1 hour long, during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.

A character can spend one or more Hit Dice at the end of a short rest, up to the character’s maximum number of Hit Dice, which is equal to the character’s level. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character’s Constitution modifier to it. The character regains hit points equal to the total. The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll. A character regains some spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest, as explained below.

Where does it say a limit?

[remote wadi]

Which is a good step upwards from either just a stabilization or needing to burn a point to heal

[hidden spindle]

The limit is Hit Dice, to heal

[empty thicket]

or figter for second wind and action surge
Or warlock for recharge his stuff
Or any tankish class for recharge a big chunk of their HP

[exotic sinew]

But you don’t NEED to use hit die. It states a character CAN spend

[hidden spindle]

What I'm saying is, if there's no reason to Short Rest, there won't be a Short Rest.

Yes, you don't need to use any Hit Die. That leaves other features that regain over a Short Rest

[knotty pasture]

Otherwise Warlocks would essentially have infinite spell slots because they can spam short rests over the course of a day

[buoyant oar]

The best part is that players don't get to spam anything because the number of short rest is determined by the DM

[remote wadi]

The objective is not to remove the need to short rest. The objective is to upgrade from a simple stabilize to full action on their next turn for very little resources used

[exotic sinew]

Yea so if the warlock, fighter, monk and barbarian all need a short rest not to regain hit points but to regain their other stuff you don’t think it’s viable to take an hour it like it down and chill for an hour

[empty thicket]

oh and some classes can do stuff in shortrests for either get spell slots, wizard can do this thing for regain X number of spellslots
Some classes can use kits or stuff to made some, like cooking something (chef feat)

Can do like the whole party is either sharing a meal, playing some cards while healing each other, etc. etc.

[buoyant oar]

The biggest thing that I can tell new DMs is to slow their pace down. The world need not be ending tomorrow for the whole campaign

[humble cairn]

I'm with you, the Healer Feat is neat, and getting people up from 0HP is giving them agency right now, which is generally during combat when it's important.

[hidden spindle]

If features recover on a Short Rest, there will be a Short Rest. But Short Rests can use Hit Dice to heal, which is a main portion of what it does.

I'm saying its just a trade-off in using Hit Dice outside of Short Rests. Which does promote Long Rests~

[remote wadi]

And all it costs is one of their hit die. Big upgrade from needing to spend a point to restore the closest thing to "too much HP"

[minor cargo]

Any cantrip, but yeah!

[remote wadi]

I get what your saying by it making short rests less urgent, but... that's a good thing

[exotic sinew]

What do you mean. What is using hit die outside of short rest

[humble cairn]

The Healer Feat, the Spellfire Sorcerer, the Arcane Vigor spell ... I'm sure I'm missing a couple.

[empty thicket]

"Two level 1 spells that have the ritual tag"
Nvm, wanted to see if i could make my "cleric" (A character that in reality is a warlock but he doesnt know he did a pact with a deity) and put prayer of healing on its options. Meh, i can see other options in other spell lists

[minor cargo]

(Oops, sorry. I was looking at 2014. You're right.)

[exotic sinew]

Oh that’s if you use the healer kit. I thought he was still talking about using his fits thingo

[hidden spindle]

It is, until you're at 0 FP and the party has no need to Short Rest

[humble cairn]

What's bad about this, again?

Oh, 0 FP meaning Focus Points. Well that is a reason to Short Rest.

[hidden spindle]

Nothings bad. Just a FP-less Monk

[exotic sinew]

At level 2 of Ranger what are some Druid cantrips I should look into

[humble cairn]

Having 0 Focus is definitely a reason to Short Rest.

[remote wadi]

If that is somehow the case and a big fight is coming up, I have 2 very common options: Prayer of Healing from a teammate or Uncanny Metabolism

[hidden spindle]

It echoes why Warlocks & Monks were notoriously starved in '14, because the party had no need to

[humble cairn]

0 Focus and no reason to Short Rest is contradictory because 0 Focus is a reason to Short Rest.

[remote wadi]

10 minute short rest

Or a once a day refill on points and some free healing on myself

[humble cairn]

Shillelagh and Magic Stone are great if you want to invest all the way in Wisdom instead of Dexterity. I bulit my Beast Master that way.

[exotic sinew]

You can still hold off a little now with uncanny metabolism as well

[pliant sapphire]

You can recover all the FP once per short rest on a start of a combat

[exotic sinew]

I am going get wanderer when I get to level 3 btw

[pliant sapphire]

so its difficult to run out of FP

[empty thicket]

Mending is useful
Message kinda same
Spare the dying can save someone

[hidden spindle]

It is, but if its the only reason and there's an unwilling party because they've no need so they continue onwards, that's just a common outcome is all

[humble cairn]

What is your build? What weapons do you use? Is your Dex higher or your Wis?

[pliant sapphire]

As a lvl 14 monk after T1 i never run out of FP

[exotic sinew]

That just seems like people that don’t want to think of their other players though

[remote wadi]

And even then, you won't be a huge sitting duck. Great AC, good saves, and being able to attack 3 times per round is not terrible

[hidden spindle]

Hmm... maybe its just me but I've encountered players that do try to tell teammates how to play their characters or whats 'optimal'

[exotic sinew]

Okay so I am a Harengon, my Dex is 17 Wis is 16. I have the standard Ranger weapons (longbow, scimitar and shortsword) I am kinda leaning towards going shortsword and scimitar as my main weapons with the combination of vex and nick plus either hunters mark or ensnaring strike and then I have my long bow for peoples at range.

My second spell is cure wounds cause well I gotta helps my peoples if they dying

[humble cairn]

Unless there's some emergency rush, not allowing a partymate to recover their resources is a party foul.

[remote wadi]

Those people can just happen, for sure

But if they really care about playing optimal... wouldn't charging into an important battle without your friendly neighborhood physican powered up suboptimal?

[exotic sinew]

Optimal gameplay is fine until it comes in the way of dumb shenanigans or just being a goof and wanting to have a good time

[umbral girder]

Guidance, Mending, Thorn Whip, Elementalism, and Druidcraft are my go tos

[humble cairn]

Looks like you're going to max out Dexterity first? Ok so you're using Dex weapons. Not Shillelagh and probably not a damaging Cantrip. I recommend Guidance and Message ... wait, how are you getting these Cantrips? Are you taking the Druidic Warrior Fighting Style? Because if you're going to use weapons it would be better to take a different Fighting Style.

[umbral girder]

Go for utility than anything really damaging is the useful part of Druidic Warrior

Since you already have combat damage better than any cantrips

[tribal plinth]

What does "westmarch" d&d mean?

[humble cairn]

Fey Wanderer has a nice feature to spread out damage to multiple targets, but you'd want to take the two weapon fighting style if that was the route you're going. Otherwise the Defense Fighting Style is never bad.

[umbral girder]

A community that posts one shots in 1 big campaign works

[exotic sinew]

Am I not reading the PHB correctly 😅 I thought Druidic warrior was apart of the the level 2 thing

[umbral girder]

It’s one of the fighting style options!

[humble cairn]

No, you take it as your one Fighting Style, over another fighting style.

It's just a Ranger specific Fighting Style.

[remote wadi]

Anyways, TLDR about the healer part

It doesn't invalidate short rests at all, nor does it supplement them. Just tells the team "Hey. Save a hit die for in case you're about to die. You go from unconscious for a while to back up in no time and requires very little on my part"

[humble cairn]

Basically it's an option for Fighting Style but it's listed in Ranger because no one else gets that Fighting Style.

[hidden spindle]

I will say, Healer's reroll heals on a 1 don't want work with Hands of Healing

[remote wadi]

Pretty sure it does, doesn't it?

[humble cairn]

Mercy Monk healing is not a spell.

[remote wadi]

It says spells, and Hands of Healing does require a magic actioj

[humble cairn]

Doesn't matter if something takes the Magic Action, if it's not called a spell it's not a spell.

[remote wadi]

Hmm. I see

[humble cairn]

Plenty of non-spells use the Magic Action.

Activating a magical item is the Magic Action.

[remote wadi]

Fair enough. Thanks for the heads up

[exotic sinew]

Ohhhhhhh 😱 I am so dumb

So cause I will mainly be using short sword to get vex and scimitar to follow up with nick (my weapon mastery) would it be beneficial to get two weapon fighting and then if so what is the point in dual wielder then cause I was looking at that for my level 4 fest but it all sounds the same.

Nick (Mastery): When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.

Dual wielder: Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don't add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.

Two weapon fighting: When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren't already adding it to the damage.

Am I stupid these all sound the same to me

Sorry for the essay

[humble cairn]

They all do different things and they all stack with each other.

[empty thicket]

Nick only do an attack without using proficiency, so just flat damage
TWF add the prof and more numbers
Dual add 1 more attack if the weapon is light

[humble cairn]

Light property is a weapon property that anyone can do, Nick Mastery lets you do that Light attack as part of your Attack Action which frees up your bonus action for other things, the Dual Wielder Feat gives you another Bonus Action to slot in there as another attack with the added bonus that it can be a non-Light weapon, and TWF style gives you added damage to the extra attacks granted by the Light property.

If you stack all of them together you can be quite the blender.

[remote wadi]

Nick means that you can make extra attack and keep bonus action free

Enhanced Dual Wilding removes the need to have the Light tag

Quick Draw is being able to draw or stow both in one free action instead of needing to burn action and free action

Two Weapon Fighting allows you to use the attacking stat modifer on damage for that extra attack

[exotic sinew]

So can I use my bonus action before my main action ?

[hexed slate]

Weapon masteries were a good edition, but I wish they had gone further.

[humble cairn]

Depends on the specific Bonus Action.

[exotic sinew]

Hunters mark per say

[humble cairn]

Yes

[empty thicket]

Yep, but that change your whole playstyle for either a more offensive//end fast the fights or skirmish fighter//ranger

[remote wadi]

Mmmm, it wouldn't be the best idea, either

[exotic sinew]

Okay well at least I know what I’ll be taking up to level 4 lol 😂

[remote wadi]

You are burning what? 4? 5 things to do it?

And for....

[humble cairn]

Let's keep it simple, FatRabbit is just learning. Maybe just leaning hard into the dual wielding tactic would be fine to learn on rather than trying to compare all sorts of different tactics.

And the dual wielding Ranger is definitely a staple D&D trope.

[empty thicket]

for around a lot of attacks, with ranger applying HM to every attack, adding 1d6 force damage.

[humble cairn]

I say go for it.

[remote wadi]

Keeping your BA available
Applying 3 or 4 points of damage to 1 attack
Removing the need for a light tag on weapons

[barren panther]

Unless it’s something that specifically says so, you’re not obligated to use your bonus action after your main action

[remote wadi]

I meant the dual wielding bit

[exotic sinew]

Oki doki i just need to figure out now when it is good to use my hunters mark and when it is good to use ensnaring strike cause they are both concentration

[empty thicket]

or just a weapon that have effects and let you do all that too, there is tons of reasons

[humble cairn]

The whole thign with Dual wielder allowing non-Light weapons might not be super usable, since it implies some weapon juggling. If FatRabbit wants to use a shortsword and scimitar that seems fine to me.

[remote wadi]

I see no problems with that. Just saying that it would require a good chunk of valuable things, so I hope they know what they're doing

[humble cairn]

Hunter's Mark is good for single target damage and nothing else, really, but it's cheap and easy to cast even before combat starts. If things seem to be headin toward a fight, you can pop it on an enemy and save yourself a Bonus Action in the beginning.

[exotic sinew]

They are just the weapons I get from being a ranger. And if I use short sword first I get advantage on my nick attack with the scimitar

[empty thicket]

Im going to hit this enemy for around 2 to +3 rounds = Hunter mark
Its better maintain it quiet or dont move too much so either dont harm me, my team or its easier to kill = ensnaring strike

[humble cairn]

You get Masteries by default, you get a fighting style by default, the only choice here that has some versatility is the Feat choice, and Dual Wielder is fine.

[remote wadi]

Ehhh, good point

[humble cairn]

Correct, and it's fine.

[remote wadi]

Gonna dip for some sleep. Final work day for the week soon

[empty thicket]

think that a class like fighter get more ASI than others, getting feats to make you work better is something instead of just raw stats

[humble cairn]

Ensnaring Strike is often more valuable when used at range. Because you can then keep them away and snipe them from afar.

[humble cairn]

You can swap out one spell every day, so don't be afraid to try out different spells.

[hidden spindle]

Honestly one of the best buffs to Ranger

[empty thicket]

yeah, most buffs are welcome to the class

[humble cairn]

It's getting so that I'm really debating hard with myself at every Long Rest, though. Because so many Ranger spells are useful.

[exotic sinew]

Well I was thinking about maybe speak with animals would be good cause I can case it as a ritual or even longstrider but like idk the animals at the carnival are “enlightened” so they all speak common anyway which was a surprise 😮

[umbral girder]

Easiest way to make modules more challenging. Add 1 dragon in each dungeon

[hidden spindle]

Like bringing your lunchbox to a work day and forgetting the utensils~

[remote wadi]

Someone remind me real quick

Why does the type of spell matter?

[humble cairn]

Too vague, what do you mean by "type?"

[hidden spindle]

It matters to some features. Sometimes the setting itself: Enchantment Spells for example are commonly banned in cities for removing free will BUT it's not a hard rule. Mostly DM settings

[humble cairn]

Do you mean class? School? Action Economy? What?

[remote wadi]

Ritual, transmutation, abjuration, etc

[exotic sinew]

That’s mainly for wizards if I remember correctly. Like the school that they are in they can record that type of spell easier into their spell book

[humble cairn]

Ritual is a casting time, Transmutation and Abjuration are Spell Schools.

[umbral girder]

Ritual for spell slot consumption
School as certain traps, subclasses, spells, and others interact with the schools of magic you cast

[exotic sinew]

Ritual isn’t a school of magic it just means you can take 10 minutes to cast the spell without using a spell slot

[hidden spindle]

Ritual Spells can be Ritual Cast

[humble cairn]

Spell Schools are just kind of broad categories that are honestly kind of arbitrary.

Spell Schools don't really matter that much, only certain features use those tags, mostly for Wizards.

[remote wadi]

Good to know

Weighted blankets, here i come

[umbral girder]

Well numerous dungeons have a thing of “if you cast this school of magic this happens”

[humble cairn]

Right, it's like damage types. They don't matter unless a feature or effect specifically calls it out.

[umbral girder]

Then you got spells that also say “no” to divination as a school.

[humble cairn]

There are broad themes to the spell schools, but no hard definitions. Cure Wounds, for example, has variously been Necromancy (life force manipulation), Evocation (energy manipulation), Abjuration (protection), and the latest change was between 2014 and 2024.

[grizzled lance]

Cure wounds was nercomacy?

[umbral girder]

Yep

[humble cairn]

In a previous edition.

[umbral girder]

Because it manipulates life energy

[grizzled lance]

Oh it wasn’t called cure wounds through

[humble cairn]

So again, the Spell Schools are ultimately arbitrary. They're just whatever the developers decide they mean currently.

[humble cairn]

It absolutely was.

[grizzled lance]

wasn’t it something like cure light wounds or something?

It also harmed undead

[humble cairn]

Oh yeah there were degrees of it.

I don't fully remember, you can ask in #dnd-elder-editions

[grizzled lance]

Cure light wounds/cure critical wounds was a conjugation

[hoary totem]

Ritual means you can cast it over a longer period of time without using a spell slot. Basically for utility spells.

Schools of magic (e.g. evocation, abjuration, etc) determine which lists of spells can be learnt by certain subclass features (e.g. 2014 Aberrant and Clockwork sorcerers, all 2024 PHB wizards, Eldritch Knights, Arcane Tricksters)

[burnt valley]

player agency vs dm agency, which one is more important?

[crimson gulch]

If either are missing your game is going to be bad

[hoary totem]

got plenty of banned subclass characters. seriously considering making more warlocks and wizards out of spite. yes, I have a warlock and a wizard that you think should be banned, and every time you ban 1 I make 2 more

[acoustic briar]

They should not interfere.

[crimson gulch]

Inhale or exhale, what's more important?

[fiery nimbus]

it's a seesaw depending on the situation

it's a balancing act that never ends, basically like any other human interaction

[coarse ravine]

Thats wild

[coarse ravine]

The inhale

[burnt valley]

I'm leaning towards the player side tbh

[humble cairn]

The DM is also a player, everyone's agency is important and this is a question that is framed in an unnecessarily oppositional way.

[burnt valley]

DMs should be impartial referees and a narrator

[fiery nimbus]

no, N E C R O M A N C Y, it wasn't wild magic, it was necromantic magic

[uncut zenith]

Pretty sure Cure Wounds was evocation in 2014

[humble cairn]

And is Abjuration in 2024.

[uncut zenith]

Gotcha

Sorry, trying to catch up on chat lol

[humble cairn]

DM's are also a player and also deserve to have fun and agency. Their role is just different.

[acoustic briar]

Player agency is basically the ability to make informed decisions.
Unless your fun is dependent on keeping important details a secret, like what the houserules are, what you expect from the players or that necromancy is illegal and will immediately summon an angel to smite the character when used, there is no conflict.

[burnt valley]

What makes them a player?

[uncut zenith]

They’re playing the game. Like Ophid said, just because they have a different role doesn’t make them any less of a player.

[humble cairn]

The fact that everyone who sits down to play D&D is a player.

[fiery nimbus]

playing a game mostly?

[empty thicket]

they are part of the game party too, they are just in another role that is being the Dungeon Master.
He is the one with more responsibility in the whole game but that dont change that is a player
He choose what things to throw, make, resolve, etc. to the party and it is his thing.

[humble cairn]

.. or she or they.

[hidden spindle]

What seperates them from a participant from a spectator is largely imparts who is a player

[stoic haven]

neither

[empty thicket]

Btw, reminder
Most of time A DMPC isnt good idea if you dont do it in the correct way, aka, dont taking the spotlight of your players and helping them through the story with that character

[fiery nimbus]

DMPC is a tool like any other

[empty thicket]

Thanks, but i always speak in general in most scenarios.

[empty thicket]

It have to be like, an example i love, The Guide from Terraria.

[fiery nimbus]

now thats just NPC

[hidden spindle]

I like using 'one' for being general

[grizzled lance]

a DMPC is also an npc

[humble cairn]

Okay so the most general would be "they" no?

[fiery nimbus]

Correct, but they are still a Player Character controled by DM

[grizzled lance]

The only limit I have for dm pc is when they have there own character sheet that’s when I’m out

[empty thicket]

that is okey, i get lost in the translation because english its weird sometimes

[humble cairn]

Very true.

[uncut zenith]

DMPCs often get a bad rep, but they’re often an NPC the DM creates as an excuse to play a PC

[grizzled lance]

I don’t like dmpcs

[uncut zenith]

But imo a good DMPC is just an NPC. They don’t hog the spotlight from the party, they just kinda guide the party towards what they may or may not need to do

[fiery perch]

I am going to cast fireball from 10,420ft like 50 times on one target

[fiery nimbus]

DM controling NPC should just never happen /s

[grizzled lance]

Funky

[fiery perch]

Yea?

[empty thicket]

i dont feel okey saying "they dungeon master" in this scenario, because there is no subject that need me to say it
but it gave me an idea fo a group of 3 dungeon masters making a whole campaign, one being good, another bad an third being a balance on them. Would be so funny

[grizzled lance]

The last time the dm tried to give us a guide they through him into the ocean cause they thought he was a spy of the BBEG

[fiery perch]

I have done the math - I can now cast fireball from 10,420ft away 25 times at level 5

before a long rest

[empty thicket]

yep, at least for roleplay there and help the party in lil things would be fine.
But i understand why people call it NPC, just remember
NPC = Non playable character.

[fiery nimbus]

amazing... do the math again

[grim fjord]

Evil

[grizzled lance]

Ref is that legal

[fiery nimbus]

I am legal system

[fiery perch]

Guh
2(5060 + r)
let r = 150
now calculate
Yup 10,420ft

[empty thicket]

first, how in the cannelloni god you could cast 25 times fireball before a long rest at lv5.
Second, why you need to do it? where are you? in a war with what!?

[grim fjord]

And I am the legal system of the legal system

[fiery nimbus]

hmm
no

[fiery perch]

Spell scrolls

[grim fjord]

Therefore, I declare this illegal

[fiery nimbus]

how did you got the spell scrolls?

[burnt valley]

Dont let your dm watch this

[hidden spindle]

To be fair, the use of 'he' was formerly used to reference any person

[fiery perch]

Scribe them

[fiery perch]

I sort of wanna do it

[empty thicket]

Yes, is what i do.

[grim fjord]

I use he until I know they're not a guy lmao

[grizzled lance]

No body uses spell scrolls

[fiery perch]

I do - we can scribe them

[grim fjord]

I do

[stark maple]

you are a rare few

[fiery nimbus]

so you scribed 25 spells spending 1500 gp and 25 days each?

[fiery perch]

make like 25 fireball spell scrolls then fire at a rate of 1 Fireball per 6 seconds from 10,420ft away

[fiery perch]

Yea if you do that upfront investment you could do it

[stark maple]

theres way to cut down the time

[fiery perch]

True

[grim fjord]

I also once created a magical nuke by putting explosives runes in my character's fake diary every day

[fiery perch]

Time is the least of our worries man
The real worry is cost

[fiery nimbus]

Doesn't matter, he basically dedicated almost 2 years of scribing scrolls without rest

[grim fjord]

Suffice to say, that did not end the way I thought it would

[fiery perch]

wait is it 25 days per spell scroll?

[fiery nimbus]

yes, duh

[fiery perch]

Ok
new strategy - BUY THEM

You can buy them too

[grizzled lance]

No its not

[empty thicket]

Spell scrolls are a good idea, sadly too pricy and unless using X background//Feats or in some ways get a discount in some stuff. Too expensive and take a lot of time

[fiery nimbus]

If anyone dedicated 2 years of their time scribing the scrolls non stop yes... so no

[fiery perch]

Rob a bank or sum - like get enough money
even then 3 fireballs (or 5 or 6) per long rest from 10,420ft is
ok I guess

[grizzled lance]

It does cost 500 gold pieces

[fiery perch]

it's no Orbital Canon strike of 25 fireballs I hoped it would be but 5 fireballs is okay too ig

[empty thicket]

but wont deny that having some spellscroll in the pocket, even a little one that is a teleport, literally a Plankton from spongebob size of spellscroll hidden in some part of the wizard.
Would be either funny and useful

[grizzled lance]

Which can be cut in half

[fiery perch]

Yea but without spell scrolls

3 or 5 fireballs from 10,420ft how broken is that?

[empty thicket]

Can make healing spell scrolls and sell them for money to some people.
Restorations spell scrolls too

[burnt valley]

how do u have line of sight

[grim fjord]

Why not steal them?

[grizzled lance]

You must be proficient in Arcana first

[fiery nimbus]

oh right i was counting them as level 5

[fiery perch]

Technology - Telescopes / other instruments to see far

[humble cairn]

I do, especially since Bastions give you a way to manufacture them remotely while you're out adventuring.

[fiery perch]

If I multi-class I could do that thing with Eldritch Blast for a lot longer

[fiery nimbus]

Screw line of sight, do you have line of effect

[empty thicket]

No thanks, i dont need to have cultist, polices and more things in my back wanting to skin me like a potato.

[humble cairn]

Or Bastions.

[fiery nimbus]

thats because of special properties of eldrich blast and warlock

[empty thicket]

that isnt a problem, if the idea is there.
Making spellscrolls for either sell or use isnt bad

[grizzled lance]

I circle magic cast fire ball to give it a range of 1000ft

[fiery perch]

it caps at 5000ft

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but you also have to have the ability

[empty thicket]

Yeah, and?

[grim fjord]

Nah but just blame it on someone else

[grizzled lance]

5280

[grizzled lance]

The ability to use healing spells

[empty thicket]

A wizard that scribe Scrolls isnt bad and fit on the class, a cleric too, etc. etc.

[fiery nimbus]

@fiery perch
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/equipment#ScribingSpellScrolls

here, the rules for scribing spell scrolls

[fiery perch]

Okay so
with Multiclassing
I can cast Eldritch blast from 11,260‬ft

Now that's cool

[fiery nimbus]

and it won't matter since there is never line of effect that long

[exotic sinew]

@humble cairn sorry I had to go a few things i just wanted to thank you for the help before

[empty thicket]

A wizard doing a whole text of how the healing magic work Vs A bard doing a whole song that heal people

[fiery nimbus]

i guess you can snipe big creatures or flying creatures

[humble cairn]

You're very welcome!

[fiery perch]

You mean line of sight? Cuz we can use instruments like telescope

11,260‬ft long eldritch blast is insane ngl

[worn lagoon]

if you manage to snipe someone from that fa

[fiery nimbus]

No, i mean line of effect
btw, glass counts as an obstruction so if you see someone behind a closed window, you can't target them
you would need to first destroy the window

[humble cairn]

If you get the right Bastion, you don't even need that.

[fiery perch]

Oh - well the same way modern snipers gain line of effect, that's how - well ig we would need to destroy each obstruction before firing

[grizzled lance]

You also need the material components

[fiery perch]

then?

[worn lagoon]

i forgot the rest of the sentence its too early

[fiery nimbus]

yes, but remember you are doing that for like 1d10 damage

[grizzled lance]

2d10-3d10

[fiery perch]

yes

• Aggonzing blast for 3d10 + 15 + stack like other effects too

[worn lagoon]

three instances of 1d10+5

[grizzled lance]

Youch

[fiery nimbus]

and why would DM bother -_-

[fiery perch]

Fun challenge

Imagine walking down an open road and then random ass eldritch blast comes out of nowhere

[fiery nimbus]

it's fairly bad
its much to easy to interrupt the line of effect

Hell a curtain over a window would block your sniper-rifle

[empty thicket]

Cure wounds // healing word dont need components beside the scroll.
Can get help from a paladin//cleric to get the spell or get help from the Wizard to make it there.
Bard can make them too
In any way, pull out a scroll from the bard, start doing rap or hip hop, add some dancing and heal your team

[worn lagoon]

if you managed to pull this off in my table i'd be so impressed i'd call it an auto crit

[fiery perch]

Meant to take enemies by suprise

[fiery perch]

Epic DM right here

[grizzled lance]

You can’t help with making it it also still needs an entire day to make a spell scroll

[fiery nimbus]

so you get the first round of surprise, lets say you hit all of your hits and they don't die... what now?

[exotic sinew]

Does anyone know if they will be coming out with 2024 physical spellcards ??

[proper forum]

Guys tell me is this a broken bard build?
-Changeling
-Collage of Eloquence
-Actor feat
-Expertise in deception and persuasion

[grizzled lance]

Moon beam

[humble cairn]

Not really. You'll basically never fail social rolls, but social rolls aren't mind control. Meaning that no matter how good you are at them you still can't force a character to do anything against their will.

[fiery perch]

I am 11,260‬ft away and they are wherever the hell they were
They take cover and either they move through cover (and we follow them through scrying) or they are pinned there

[empty thicket]

Damn, lets nuke Starhd for that

[umbral girder]

Only a 1/5 of meteor swarm range. Smh

[empty thicket]

Use the 25 fireballs on him

[fiery perch]

From 11,260‬ft away

[fiery nimbus]

how would scrying help

[uncut zenith]

It’s strong, but not broken

[fiery perch]

Tracking their location?

[grizzled lance]

Meteor swarms range is only 5280 feet

[proper forum]

Yeah my friend had a character like this so I am trying to reverse engineer it and steal it for myself because I found it impressive

[fiery perch]

So I am outranging meteor swarm

[grizzled lance]

Where did you get your numbers bruh

[fiery nimbus]

well yes, you know where they are, you can't exactly do anything about it in any environment that is not in the sky or maybe at the sea?

oh i guess it would work in spelljammer

[fiery perch]

They are pinned or always moving through cover bro

[proper forum]

The most shocking part for me is that he did this build without making his character an actor who uses his shape-shifting ability to play different roles. Missed opportunity of the decade.

[fiery nimbus]

you are overestimating the amount of sight lines from 11k ft

they could just be... walking at brisk pace

[grizzled lance]

Isn’t there a barbarian ability that gives you the ability to see out to 1 mile without issue

[fiery perch]

You could control the airspace at least

[empty thicket]

Meteor swarm only apply to one time per target, so you cant just throw the whole thing to one enemy. Kinda sad because some big enemies would tank that

[fiery nimbus]

Again, its not Line of Sight thats a problem

Line of Effect is

[grizzled lance]

Yeah because doing 120d6 would be a big issue

[empty thicket]

To some enemies of giant size, not at all

or could make it further hits do half damage, so is less op

[grizzled lance]

The enemy with the most Hp only has 700+ hp

[exotic sinew]

Your warlock would be fantastic at duck hunt

[proper forum]

You see I want to make broken and really strong characters that my friends will be jealous of while also making them well-written with good lore

[fiery nimbus]

If there is no clear straight uninterrupted line between you and your target when you cast your cantrip, it won't work

[grizzled lance]

The way I think about it is the limit of the thing your attacking with is the max range of it

Aka a sniper being able to attack from a short range of 150 and a long range of 300

[hidden spindle]

Why/how are these numbers in a Grey block? Similar to the time difference thingy?

[empty thicket]

I want to play some warlock ideas im having
A cleric (that is in reality a warlock but he doesnt know because its patron lied to him)
A Slinger (pact of the blade flavored in a gun that shoot eldritch blasts) priest that got into dark powers

[fiery perch]

Cuz I made them to be

[grizzled lance]

Magic

[hidden spindle]

"Enemies spotted~" I've been found!

[empty thicket]

A Hexblade warlock that face in duel enemies because its patron want him to duel and make its dream of having an epic duel

[fiery perch]

K bye I am gonna go snipe people from 11,260‬ft away in open areas

[fiery nimbus]

Spells need multiple factors to work, main one being in case of Eldrich Blast
Line of Sight AND Line of Effect, in this case even if range was global, it would fail to hit majority of the time

[proper forum]

You know what's crazy? One of the people in my current party is a warlock with a celestial patron who pretends she is a cleric

[grizzled lance]

Have fun

[empty thicket]

Yeah, the idea is basic but i like some basic ideas

[grizzled lance]

Eldritch blast just says a creature within range

[exotic sinew]

OK so is their patrons the deity that they think they worship ? Can warlocks heal? Like why do they think they are a cleric

[grizzled lance]

No where does it mention line of sight

A beam of crackling energy streaks toward a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d10 force damage.

[fiery nimbus]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/spells#Effects

Here are the rules of spellcasting

[exotic sinew]

But on a ranged attack wouldn't you need to see them?

[proper forum]

I habe way too many ideas

[fiery nimbus]

It's right there
"A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover."

[grizzled lance]

So if it’s behind 3 quarters it’s fair game

[valid geyser]

i mean that doesnt neccessarily mean they have to see the target

[exotic sinew]

How does that apply to magic missile??

[grizzled lance]

Also that means blinded would be the strongest condition against spell casters

[tawdry sentinel]

A target you can see is occasionally a benefit.

The general rule is as cookies say.

You can't eldritch blast something behind a window. Because the glass breaks the line of effect. But you can hit it with sacred flame, because that's a target you can see.

[empty thicket]

Yes, celestial patron give you healing spells
The idea is a guy that want to help people and a Celestial patron heard the call and lie to him about being a good god.
Its told is now a cleric and through the adventure he would be realizing he isnt one to finally face the patron and be like
"You lied to me about being a god and me being a cleric!?"
"Welp...... ermm... you looked so cute wanting help and i didnt wanted to break your lil heart so... Yes.."

[fiery nimbus]

Same way, fails if total cover

[fiery nimbus]

Yes, and it is

[empty thicket]

It is in theory.
Throw those pepper bombs to the face of the caster

[exotic sinew]

Oh interesting 🤔

[grizzled lance]

It’s not cause you can still attack someone with certain spells that don’t specify line of sight

[fiery nimbus]

If you blind a caster, every single spell with "X you can see" auto-fails

[empty thicket]

But yeah, if the caster cant see where is going the shot, its risky and a failed shoot would lead to their death
Smoke bombs would be nice

[grizzled lance]

That’s why you pick up blindsight

But blinded isn’t that common of a condition

[fiery nimbus]

Yes you can, i have no idea where did you got the idea that i said you can't
Blind is still one of the most powerful effects against casters

[burnt valley]

carto artificer 3 lets u teleport without needing line of sight

[exotic sinew]

What's worse silence or blind cause verbal components be a pain if you can't speak

[fiery nimbus]

Also yes, every spell needs to have a Line of Effect, so like i said even if someone is behind a thin pane of glass, your spell will splash against the glass

[grizzled lance]

Shadow monk used to be able to teleport without needing los

[fiery nimbus]

Oh Shadow Monks are spellcasters now?

[umbral girder]

Who would have a longer coffee order? Bahamut or Tiamat?

[grizzled lance]

That’s not line of sight through

That’s just cover

[proper forum]

Here's some ideas I had:
A warforged bard who is closer to a real-life automaton than any other warforged you will see. Instead if being an obedient mechanical servant, she is quite vain since she knows how rare and expensive she is.
A bladesinger ballerina who's fighting style looks like ballet
A high elf who doesn't speak common very well and that is reflected by her having a thick French accent

[fiery nimbus]

Correct
I was very explicit in calling it Line of Effect

[humble cairn]

I'm currently trying to strategize a fight against a lich and a dracolich and trying to deny the lich vision is a big part of my tactics.

[grizzled lance]

Shadow monk can cast darkness and pass without a trace so I think so

[fiery nimbus]

Heavy Obscuration my beloved

[humble cairn]

Because if they can't see us, they can't counterspell us nor can they misty step.

[fiery nimbus]

and Darkness and Pass without a trace will still obey the rules of casting

[exotic sinew]

Do you like the new counterspell??

[fiery nimbus]

I would appriciate if you stopped trying to find a "gacha" moment

[grizzled lance]

That’s very rare to come by

[humble cairn]

It's fine.

[grizzled lance]

I wasn’t I just saying that monks could teleport?

[fiery nimbus]

Fog Cloud is a first level spell, one of the entire series of spells causing this effect -_-

[grizzled lance]

Fan

[burnt valley]

fog cloud, fight in ranged, bait out breath attacks with rope trick

[humble cairn]

Jallarzi's Storm of Radiance is nice because it blinds the targets inside it and prevents them from casting with verbal components, but it doesn't obscure them from outside attack.

[grizzled lance]

can you enter and exit rope trick

[burnt valley]

duh?

[grizzled lance]

I meant with just movement alone

[exotic sinew]

@fiery nimbus What's worse silence or blind cause verbal components be a pain if you can't speak

[fiery nimbus]

Blind

[grizzled lance]

There are a few spells that don’t need verbal components

[burnt valley]

yea

[fiery nimbus]

There are few spells that don't require you to see the target

[exotic sinew]

Yea but a lot do

[grizzled lance]

Power word kill

[fiery nimbus]

"You compel one creature you can see within range to die."

[grizzled lance]

Fire ball then

[visual dew]

Im trying to find a dm rn but idk how to work the looking for dm channel

[still plover]

Check the listings in #looking-for-players for games that want people, read the details, respond as appropriate and cross your fingers.

Type /looking and select the option for #looking-for-dm to advertise yourself as a new player in search of a group. Be sure to include your regular availability!

There are other Discord servers where people gather for games. You can find them in #looking-for-community .

Aside from here, you could also try LFG areas in sites like Reddit, Roll20 or the D&D Beyond forums to get started.

[grizzled lance]

Or lightning bolt

[empty thicket]

i was thinking from some time a Warforged that is flavored like a slime inside of an armor and act like a human. A fighter and try to dont show his body to anyone.
He might die and came back like other class in the future

[fiery nimbus]

more or less, its a "point you choose" so sight does not effect it

[grizzled lance]

Plus liches have counter spell and shield at will

They can also teleport as a legendary action so they are pretty hard to pin down as well

[fiery nimbus]

making silence that much worse...

[humble cairn]

But it does need to be a place to which they can see.

[tawdry sundial]

G'day everyone!

[burnt valley]

counter spell does nothing against players unless you homebrew the save dc to an unreasonable number

[grizzled lance]

Which it can just dispel unless you blind it somehow

And dispel doesn’t need LOS

[empty thicket]

Put him in a cage with silence, the fighter and barbarian or the monk.
Make the minions do bets of who win and the lich for arrogant wont ask them to break the cage or take him out

[humble cairn]

Yes, blinding is definitely part of the strategy.

[exotic sinew]

If you hit someone with witchbolt and they turn and run into another room so are behind a wall or are further than the 60ft range does it just stop?

[grizzled lance]

It can teleport out of the cage

[fiery nimbus]

thank god dracoliches don't have this spell

[grizzled lance]

It’s a legendary action that doesn’t need anything

[empty thicket]

Damn... nvm them, slur him for being a coward and run away or smt

[grizzled lance]

It can also cast fear as a legendary action

[tawdry sentinel]

Yes

[fiery nimbus]

you can put them in force cage but at this point you are a spellcaster capable of casting 9th level spells so you should have better tools to fight them anyway

[grizzled lance]

They don’t put it can stand within the Draco liches breathe weapon and be unaffected

[grizzled lance]

Force cage can still be teleported out of

[exotic sinew]

Well damm that sucks 😕

[empty thicket]

The fighter and monk want to have a lil close chat with it

A violent chatting with it.

[grizzled lance]

The monk would get wreaked if it gets too close

[fiery nimbus]

if they save charisma

[grizzled lance]

Since the new lich can do 16d12

[empty thicket]

on what?!

[tawdry sentinel]

TBF standing at point blank rage to a lich is a very fast way to get paralyzing touched to death.

[humble cairn]

PWK is scary

[pliant sapphire]

Leg resistance

[grizzled lance]

So paralyzing Touch is auto auto effect

[fiery nimbus]

they have resistant legs?

[grizzled lance]

It also has muti attack now

[fiery nimbus]

or do they resist against legs?

[grizzled lance]

Yeah..? It’s cr 21

[empty thicket]

damn... what is its weakness?

[grizzled lance]

The lich makes three attacks using Eldritch burst and paralyzing touch in any combination

If he hits you with paralyzing touch he can then make 2 Eldritch burst allowing him to do 4d12 which turns in into 8d12

[fiery nimbus]

overpowering it

[tawdry sentinel]

Being dumped by the whole party. It's the general thing with most of those high level monsters.

It'll have a very real chance to kill a person a round, but the party also does silly numbers so they'll just kill it faster than it gets all of them.

[humble cairn]

Oh no, I forgot they nerfed Shocking Grasp. It doesn't turn off all Reactions anymore, it just turns off OAs.

[empty thicket]

okey nvm, using the 25 fireballs

[grizzled lance]

The lich can do 3d6+5 plus another 16d12 + 10 damage

[fiery nimbus]

@humble cairn do you come to Lich or is Lich coming to you?

[grizzled lance]

That’s 135 average damage

Making it one of the best melee monsters in the game

[fiery nimbus]

there are couple spells that ban teleportation entirely but they need some casting time

[humble cairn]

We're all standing in a room, my Ranger has cast Silence on the door to prevent calling for help. There is an allied God trapped in an adjacent chamber of the room.

[grizzled lance]

Good luck trying to get those off without a dispel magic

[humble cairn]

There is a whole horde of enemies two room away that we bypassed with some oddly successful bluff rolls.

[grizzled lance]

Dispel magic at will is so strong ngl

[fiery nimbus]

To be honest, blessed is a round where Lich casts dispell magic insted of trying to kill you

[valid geyser]

I mean if the lich uses dispel magic it spends its turn without being able to damage with paralysis or use another spell

[grizzled lance]

Legendary action disrupt life

The teleport also does a little bit of damage

[undone rain]

Read that as rifle at first lol

[grizzled lance]

Imo the Eldritch burst shouldn’t be a melee and ranged option

[empty thicket]

Damn....

[fiery nimbus]

Eh, seen worse
there is one monster that saps your STR score and if it falls to 0 you instantly die

[grizzled lance]

A lich in the new edition can very will kill an under prepared party member

[grizzled lance]

That’s shadows and reflections

[fiery nimbus]

that's pretty much any monster -_-

[empty thicket]

You know what? F$&@ it.
IM A FIGTHER!! IM GOING TO STAND MY GROUND!!
None will cross through me because i wont yield, i dominate the fights and i wont kneel to no one.
Im A Fighter.

[reef tundra]

Man I’d love to fight a Lich one day

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but other deaths feel at least a little fair not losing your action and getting auto crit into the dirt

[humble cairn]

We all got Heroic Inspiration for those oddly successful bluff rolls, and I think I'm going to suggest that most of us use them on our Initiative rolls..

[grizzled lance]

Smart

[empty thicket]

For a reason fighter dont get disengage like Rogue and Monk.
He must stand its ground without leaving any spot of hesistation and fear.

[valid geyser]

I mean is that so different from just being PWKed?

[fiery nimbus]

oh i see you failed your Con save, it would be a shame... if you would instantly die

Signed, Sea Hag

[grizzled lance]

There is no save

2024 removed a lot of auto put you to 0 hp

But it added a lot of crazy stuff

[reef tundra]

I love the challenge

[valid geyser]

Mostly in terms of attacks that incapacitate or worse with no save

[fiery nimbus]

I like new blodied mechanic where monsters use stuff below certain hp threshold

[reef tundra]

Although a lot of the losing your turn with no/little saves does sound like it’ll be quite a problem

[empty thicket]

PWKed?

[valid geyser]

Power word kill

[reef tundra]

Power word kill-ed

[grizzled lance]

Death instantly

[empty thicket]

Oh, na. Id win.

[fiery nimbus]

on the level you fight them on it's kind of your own fault

[reef tundra]

It’s all “the only important hit point is the last” until power word kill comes out

[humble cairn]

You could Action Surge to Disengage, but probably easier to use Push Mastery.

[reef tundra]

True

[fiery nimbus]

or you could push them

[grizzled lance]

Considering liches will have minions wandering about it’s not gonna be that easy

[reef tundra]

Good >:)

[grizzled lance]

Plus new liches have 20 ac and 315 Hp

[fiery nimbus]

I love high level spellcasting enemies
last time i fought one i had a standoff where both of us were using Control Weather

[tawdry sentinel]

This is more of a problem in these 5-6 person games where people mess around and a round takes 15 minutes. Leaving you realistically out of the game for the best part of half an hour.

This is however not really different to an enemy saving a cantrip, or whiffing all your attacks.

[grizzled lance]

The old lich only had 17 ac with 135 Hp 😭

[empty thicket]

isolate the lich and force him to either go defensive or kill the minions fast

[fiery nimbus]

they can dispell the silence on the doors you know

[reef tundra]

Very true

[empty thicket]

just that?

[humble cairn]

I'm really hoping my gambit of preemptively casting Silence on the door will prevent that just long enough.

[fiery nimbus]

but again, them using a dispell will kill them

[grizzled lance]

Dispels your magic

[reef tundra]

Yup. They were quite squishy. I’d call them class cannons

[tawdry sentinel]

Lich has at will clairvoyance in its lair as well. It should know you're there.

[humble cairn]

Again, i'm hoping it will last just long enough to matter.

[reef tundra]

Now I really wanna fight a Lich

[grim nimbus]

Good morning everyone

[humble cairn]

It didn't know beforehand, but we are now in the room, no surprise possible.

[reef tundra]

Morning!

[fiery nimbus]

they need to know its there btw

[grim nimbus]

Or night if your across the world from me

[grizzled lance]

Whenever a creature died inside of a liches lair it can only be bought back by wish or true res

[empty thicket]

I mean, if some ally go to him and force his reactions (Shield and the paralyze thing) and let it open.
With 4 attacks + Action surge. Can manage to easily took half of its hp or in best scenario kill him

[grizzled lance]

Clairvoyance

[empty thicket]

even zealot barbarian?

[reef tundra]

Very glass cannon

[grizzled lance]

Any humanoid

Your soul gets consumed by the lich

[valid geyser]

I think if anything the lich’s attack should be like the empyrean where the target could choose not to be paralyzed, taking extra damage instead

[empty thicket]

Polymorph the person before it die so it doesnt count like humanoid and then revive him in the animal shape

[grizzled lance]

They would change back into a humanoid so

[fiery nimbus]

To be honest if Lich pre-casted all of those spells, they won't have much place to cast more

[reef tundra]

I was about to pitch casting silence then just getting the party to grapple or knock it into the area and keep it there, but then I remembered they can just teleport as a LA

[empty thicket]

Damn, true polymorph dont change it too?

[fiery nimbus]

Awareness of Being Targeted. Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature doesn’t know it was targeted by the spell. An effect like lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read thoughts, goes unnoticed unless a spell’s description says otherwise.

[thorn abyss]

Grinding characters out of session. How’s that work?

[grizzled lance]

It can cast clairvoyance without spell components anywhere in its lair

[reef tundra]

Can’t 2024 liches cast it for free?

[reef tundra]

I knew it!

[humble cairn]

Jallarzi's Storm of Radiance is my hope.

[grizzled lance]

And again creatures in 2024 don’t use spell slots

It’s just “creature can use these spells this amount of times”

[reef tundra]

Good idea. Maybe a bit of forge cage to try keep it in there.
Although I can’t remember what JSoR does

[fiery nimbus]

yes, i know...

[humble cairn]

JSoR blinds things in it, no save. It also prevents casting anything with a V component.

[valid geyser]

I guess the answer to singe monster encounters is always forcecage…

[grizzled lance]

So the lich will always no where you are

[reef tundra]

Ah, excellent, so it covers what silence can do

[grizzled lance]

New force cage is kinda bad tho

[empty thicket]

A lichcan blink (spell)?

[grizzled lance]

It only last for 1 hour and it needs concentration

[valid geyser]

1 hour and concentration to completely shut them down

[fiery nimbus]

Well, may know where you are
Clairvoyance is kind of like a camera

anything that fools the sight/hearing fools the spell

[valid geyser]

I think the nerfs weren’t enough

[empty thicket]

it does now?

[grizzled lance]

I guess but you can still force a con save out of the one casting force cage via disrupt life

[humble cairn]

We just need to way to stop it from simply walking out of the spell. Which will probably require burning through some Legendary Resistances.

[fiery nimbus]

Spirit Jar is such a dumb name though
it should have been called Spirit Anchor

[empty thicket]

No wait, blink dont need concentration

[reef tundra]

Ooh that’s good.

[grizzled lance]

Or again just dispel the force cage

[crimson gulch]

just imagining a mason jar

[fiery nimbus]

still with the old label from the red beets on it

[humble cairn]

We have a Wall of Force available, but I'm probably going to suggest using that on the dracolich.

[grizzled lance]

I was gonna say wall of force can be destroyed via disintegrate but then I remembered they don’t have that

[fiery nimbus]

I know what will help

Upcasting Summon Greater Demon

[humble cairn]

.. some people just want to watch the world burn.

[grizzled lance]

Also creatures within 60ft of the dragon lich can’t heal at all

[fiery nimbus]

must suck getting cold while working for the dracolich

[humble cairn]

Yes, we've run into that already and are aware of that.

[grizzled lance]

Most people would be undead thus immune to the common cold

[empty thicket]

It have a dragon too!?

[fiery nimbus]

what if its uncommon

[grizzled lance]

Yeah a lich and a dragon lich

[grizzled lance]

Undead are immune to all disease magical and non magical Arrrrr

[humble cairn]

Also the one poor humanoid minion we duped into leading us right into this chamber.

[grizzled lance]

Most undead at least

[fiery nimbus]

Makes you wonder why they didn't fill their lair with blight

[grizzled lance]

Not so sure about vampires

Being the only undead not immune to poison is something

[fiery nimbus]

quite undead