dnd-discussion

[drifting fox]

steam deck for 200 bucks

[urban bolt]

wellll, i wouldn't say that. there's more consensus based answers than objective answers though, so to an extent.

[harsh hollow]

Your personal goals are a different story, you need to talk to the DM about that.

[stark maple]

260 dollars to make a character token soild

[lucid agate]

i mean like if i were to create a campaign

[harsh hollow]

Ohhh.

[urban bolt]

if you already have it

[barren panther]

Yeah I suppose I was being too vague but there’s definitely not a specific way you need to run a campaign

[drifting fox]

no, 260 to play one of the greatest games of all time

[urban bolt]

you're missing that part. it's good if you already have bg3

[stark maple]

that wasnt the agrument here

[drifting fox]

idgaf about character tokens i steal art off pinterest

[drifting fox]

thats not what i was arguing about you said it was 70 dollars

[mighty wharf]

Oh nvm I already asked this and was answered in another channel mbad

[stone panther]

ahh the good old days when you could find dnd art on pinterest without slogging through a million ai images of dungeons

[stark maple]

i was saying spending 60 dollars to do "character art" was stupid

[lucid agate]

sorry for confusion im like very new to dnd my friend was like "hey you seem like the dnd type" and just dumped a bunch of info on me

[urban bolt]

ahem it's good to use. IF. again, IF, you ALREADY, have it.

[drifting fox]

yeah it would be. but if you already own bg3 it's a good idea

[harsh hollow]

Ahh, understandable. It's a lot to take in but very fun a lot of the time!

[drifting fox]

(assuming that suits your fancy)

[stark maple]

still very limiting

[barren panther]

Do you actually WANT to run a campaign?

[lucid agate]

yeah it sounds fun

[harsh hollow]

I think starting as a player to get your bearings might be a bit better than just jumping in as a DM though

[knotty pasture]

Outside of outlandish exotic races I think it works

[urban bolt]

Why are two of you continually showing up as "likely spammers" this is obnoxious unhiding messages lmao

[stark maple]

dont you want to be a cult leader

[drifting fox]

all that you need to know-
don't play a bard
never trust the rogue
never do what the paladin tells you to do

[barren panther]

Ok cool because it will not be fun if you don’t, haha

[harsh hollow]

Which two? 👀

[stark maple]

me and someone else i guess

[urban bolt]

Bro's being conscripted because his friend is the Forever DM and desperate to escape

[drifting fox]

yeah you show up as a spammer for me for some reason

[urban bolt]

Tiamat and matty

[stark maple]

discord flagged me

[harsh hollow]

You don't show up that way to me, weird.

[barren panther]

Wtf!

[drifting fox]

matty doesn't show up as a spammer for me

[stark maple]

its only on pc

[knotty pasture]

Same

[drifting fox]

only tiamat

[urban bolt]

Oh wait, nevermind, just tiamat, chat moved at a weird time and i thought it was two lol

[lucid agate]

i mean i dont really know any campaigns to join plus i kind of prefer having the like hand over story stuff

[lucid agate]

whats so bad about a bard

[stark maple]

do do do

[urban bolt]

That's real, first campaign i ran was homebrew and i've kept it that way since.

[drifting fox]

where do i start

[stark maple]

i seduce the dragon

[drifting fox]

just play ranger trust me it's the best worst class

[urban bolt]

Warlock is the most fun IMO if you want customizability :)

[harsh hollow]

I've mostly played in homebrew campaigns, other than an Avernus module one that petered out because most of our group was college kids.

[lucid agate]

ive been a fan of writing like little tidbits of stories i think it would be nice to have one big thing to connect it back to

[barren panther]

Sounds like they’re going to be DM

[drifting fox]

don't listen to him he sold his soul

[knotty pasture]

First it was Ranger hate then it was Warlock hate, truly a yare yare moment

[stark maple]

you should play druid

[harsh hollow]

I think I saw Druid hate the other day too.

[urban bolt]

There's everything hate

[drifting fox]

druid is good but it's just full caster religious ranger that can turn into animals

[stone panther]

the only thing thats important to me is if i can have a lil guy. chain warlock gets a little guy so its approved. same with druid and ranger

[urban bolt]

I could never hate Warlock, it's amazing. Practically two subclasses, endless freedom in the flavour and story of it, custimzability with envocations for your play style...

[harsh hollow]

I tend to enjoy the Druids like Stars or Wildfire that don't actually transform more.

[knotty pasture]

There's definitely no Cleric hate 😔

[blissful ibex]

it's Exploration Pillar cleric with way more utility options

[stark maple]

ranger uses druid spells not the other way around

[lucid agate]

oh my friend showed me his warlock character sheet and there were like five different modifier thingies that made a bunch of his spells just not take up a spell slot and i felt like i was reading like arabic or something

[urban bolt]

Sounds about right. lmao.

[drifting fox]

rangers don't primarily use spells

[urban bolt]

Magic initiate spam if i hadda guess

[drifting fox]

that's why i said it

[stark maple]

i know but ranger is based of a druid marital not the other way around

[harsh hollow]

If they reprint Wildfire I think the boosts to fire damage and healing need to scale this time. Give me the real pyromancer treatment.

[drifting fox]

i was joking

[stone panther]

magic initiate is my favorite, love taking it for find familiar

[stark maple]

im still unsure if there gonna reprint all the sub classes from Tasha's/Xanther guide

[drifting fox]

my favorite feat is 2014 sharpshooter
-every ranger player

[urban bolt]

Mage armor is a great use for it too, great for melee warlocks

[knotty pasture]

Every ranged martial*

[stark maple]

sharp shooter got tanked in 2024

[urban bolt]

mine is sharpshooter and i'm a warlock :)

[blissful ibex]

a bunch of invocations let you cast certain spells at will

[drifting fox]

i don't play 2024 it's sacriligious

[urban bolt]

yasss

[stone panther]

im an armor of shadows girlie myself

[stark maple]

how does sharp shooter help you as a warlock??

[harsh hollow]

I assume that'd be the plan, presumably they want as much of a 2024 only environment as possible to be an option since they're not releasing 2014 stuff anymore.

[knotty pasture]

I agree wholeheartedly, if only this server isn't so overwhelmingly pro 2024...

[drifting fox]

if you use a bow a lot in any capacity it's goated

[urban bolt]

Magic initiate gives the same effect with the wizard choice, but two free cantrips to boot.

[blissful ibex]

Too busy spending early invocations on Tone Pact and Aspect of the Moon

[barren panther]

I got no beef with 2024

[knotty pasture]

Hexblade/Pact of the Blade Warlocks can appreciate Sharpshooter

[urban bolt]

My pact weapon is a hunting rifle :)

[drifting fox]

this must be how the 3.5e uncs feel

[harsh hollow]

I think the last 2014 stuff they released was for Crooked Moon, which I heard was only for a legal issue anyway.

[urban bolt]

Yeah, hexblade blade pact

[stark maple]

ref is that legal

[knotty pasture]

I dunno what that is but it sounds like an extinct species

[grizzled lance]

Beats me

[urban bolt]

I watched Legends fo Avantris BEFORE they were cool smh

[drifting fox]

i never even considered a bow hexblade that sounds badass

[urban bolt]

Yes, it is.

[blissful ibex]

if it's a magic item, yes

[knotty pasture]

Say no to EB say yes to arrow spam instead

[harsh hollow]

I had a longbow one, it's pretty neat.

[stone panther]

the only thing iirc is that you cant summon a ranged weapon you have to bind a magic weapon

[drifting fox]

also i love critical role gunslinger subclass i don't care if it's just worse battlemaster with a gun i love it

[urban bolt]

What i did, except bullet spam lol. I didn't take EB because i didn't wnat to trivialize the ammunition/resource dependency of my character.

[harsh hollow]

I think under the old rules one of the upgrading invocations let you use ranged weapons.

[blissful ibex]

you can summon standard range weapons if you take Improved Pact Weapon, but yeah, special weapons like the guns you need a magic one to bind

[stone panther]

there was one that let you do longbows specifically i think, but i may be misremembering

[stark maple]

even so using a hunting rifle might be annoying since you still have to relaod it

[urban bolt]

Which i have! Hunting rifles technically count as magic, as what Mae here told me lol

[drifting fox]

(i secretly love all critical role content)

[stark maple]

imporeved pact weapon

[urban bolt]

Part of the reason i wanted it, it's fun to plan around.

[harsh hollow]

Hexbard using blade flourishes on longbow shots was pretty fun.

[stark maple]

how many shots does a hunting rifle have before you have to reload it anyway

[urban bolt]

5, and then you can reload with a BA or Action.

[drifting fox]

if you get gunner feat you ignore the reloading property

[stark maple]

wrong

[drifting fox]

right

[stark maple]

it only ignores the loading property not the reloading

[drifting fox]

same thing i thought

[urban bolt]

It is the same thing

[harsh hollow]

The space hippos can also ignore that I think.

[stark maple]

its not

[urban bolt]

yep!

[harsh hollow]

The idea of genetically being that good with guns is really funny, especially with hippo hands.

[drifting fox]

i looked it up, it is

[urban bolt]

Yeah, pretty much. the DMG only mentions Reload, which implies it's the same thing.

[stark maple]

loading only means you can fire 1 shot before needing to reload

REloading means you can fire mutiple aka revoler having 6 shots before needing to reload

[blissful ibex]

They're a Giff to gun users

[harsh hollow]

I wish I'd bought those guys back when you could buy items separately. I don't really need the rest of Spelljammer but bought most of the races except or one two.

[stark maple]

meaning gunner doesnt work with the reloading

it legit says it right there

[drifting fox]

theres guns that only fire once and the property is called reloading

[rough basalt]

No it's called loading on the standard guns.

Reloading is on the modern ones

[stark maple]

what sora said

[urban bolt]

Oh yeah probably

[stark maple]

loading and reloading are two diffrent things

[barren panther]

Well dang that’s confusing language

[urban bolt]

I dunno, i just know the stuff for hunting rifles lol

I love my hunting rifle

[drifting fox]

well i don't use any of the modern guns i was just talking about the fantasy setting ones, should have specified mb

[rough basalt]

Its cause modern guns don't need to be loaded after one shot.

But the standard guns in the dnd settings that have them are flintlocks which need loaded every shot

[drifting fox]

i forgot that people play modern setting dnd because that's disgusting

and i want to shun it from my brain

[rough basalt]

Similar to crossbows

[urban bolt]

I don't, i just have it cuz y not :) tis' fun

[drifting fox]

im pretty sure gunner works on crossbows too right?

[rough basalt]

Actually, Pistols and Muskets are just better crossbow and heavy crossbow

[stark maple]

Loading
Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.

[harsh hollow]

I love the mental image of aggressively putting the powder and shots back in while looking at each other after missing a shot.

[rough basalt]

Crossbows have crossbow expert

[stark maple]

gunner only works for fire arms

[urban bolt]

COngratulations, you just explained many historic battles.

[stark maple]

crossbows aint fire arms

[harsh hollow]

I know and it's so funny to think about.

[urban bolt]

It is, yeah lmao

[drifting fox]

yeah it specifically says firearms (thats why i asked)

[harsh hollow]

Apparently a lot of duels were just missing each other like five times and calling it a day since it was mostly for show.

[urban bolt]

Yeah, which is wild

[stark maple]

then no

[humble cairn]

It's not an attack at all, it's just damage, but yeah it's basically a guaranteed way to down PCs making death saves.

[urban bolt]

Mannnn doing 2d10 damage with one attack action and thristing blade is gonna go SO hard at level 5

[harsh hollow]

Isn't it weird that gunner works on guns but not crossbows but crossbow expert works on spells?

[drifting fox]

yep, especially since duelling was primarily done by rich dudes who didn't know how to shoot very well lol

[mighty wharf]

I just found a cantrip that you can cast every time an enemy attacks you, and gives them disadvantage on the attack... and I'm pretty sure it's not homebrew. That's pretty broken right?

[stark maple]

this is reloading
Reload
You can make a limited number of shots with a Reload weapon. You must then reload the weapon as an action or a Bonus Action.

[drifting fox]

reminds me of the sandbar fight

[harsh hollow]

Is that new Blade Ward?

[mighty wharf]

It's uh UA blade ward.

[urban bolt]

New blade ward seems so useless imo

[mighty wharf]

And it's uh something else.

[urban bolt]

Why waste an action for 1d4 less damage?

[stark maple]

UA isnt so cheeks daw

[humble cairn]

Not less damage, effective AC.

[harsh hollow]

If it's UA it's Not Canon ™.

[stark maple]

until it is

[mighty wharf]

I mean it is blade ward but god damn

[urban bolt]

But it only activates once, when you take the damage.

[harsh hollow]

But then it's not UA anymore. x3

[urban bolt]

It doesn't... make sense

[humble cairn]

No, you're reading Blade Ward wrong. It's effectively +1d4 AC.

[stark maple]

we need dead spells to make other spells look good guys

[drifting fox]

it's like the guidebooks for every video game and tv show that released in the 2000s-2010s, everything MIGHT be canon (but is definitely not)

[urban bolt]

I have it right infront of my face, it says Whenever a creature makes an attack roll against you before the spell ends, the attacker subtracts 1d4 from the attack roll.

[harsh hollow]

I'm more just astounded at the huge turnaround they gave True Strike.

[humble cairn]

The attack roll, not the damage roll.

[urban bolt]

Oh wait i'm stupid

[mighty wharf]

Can I post the spell here or is that not allowed?

[urban bolt]

I always get those confused, that's so obnoxious

[harsh hollow]

To be clear you are allowed to talk about non-PHB stuff here in the right channels.

[stark maple]

new blade ward is better

[urban bolt]

Okay blade ward is good my bad

[humble cairn]

New Blade Ward is great! New Resistance, not so much.

[drifting fox]

what does 2024 blade ward do?

[stark maple]

minus 1d4 to any attack rolll

[drifting fox]

cuz i know 2014 blade ward is hot dookie

[urban bolt]

Well, i already have an ac of 15, i don't think i need blade ward lol.

[humble cairn]

This: #dnd-discussion message

[drifting fox]

huh

[urban bolt]

wym huh?

[harsh hollow]

Lowers attack rolls yeah.

[drifting fox]

just still seems pretty underwhelming

[mighty wharf]

I'm gonna use UA blade ward that is so cash money for my action economy

[barren panther]

ANY attack or is that a reaction?

[drifting fox]

i mean how long does it last?

[humble cairn]

15 is like, okay for a low level character, but it's not anything to write home about?

[urban bolt]

A possibility of 4 more ac is underwhelming? For a whole minute? aka like, 10 rounds?

[stark maple]

any attack while the spell is activate

[humble cairn]

concentration 1 minute

[drifting fox]

oh i thought it was just for one round

[harsh hollow]

Still more likely to see use than the old version. x3

[barren panther]

Ah ok I missed that

[drifting fox]

yeah that seems really good and actually useful

[urban bolt]

I'm level 2 atm, and like, regularly attacking 80+ feet away so i'm good for now.

[urban bolt]

Check with your DM first.

[humble cairn]

What class and what spells are you deciding between?

[drifting fox]

2014 blade ward would have been incredible if it was a bonus action

[mighty wharf]

So UA blade ward is a cantrip, and it says "reaction, which you take in response to a visible creature targeting you with a melee attack". Which means, I'm pretty sure, you can use it against a hoard of enemies and react to every attack with blade ward.

[humble cairn]

You only have one Reaction per Round.

[stone panther]

you only get one reaction

[stark maple]

what he said

[mighty wharf]

Oh per round? Ok nvm. It's not as crazy as I thought

I thought it was one reaction per turn lmao

[urban bolt]

Warlock blade/hexblade, and like, uhhh hex, expeditious retreat, hellish rebuke, shocking grasp, lightning lure, mage hand, and message. DM let me have a nerfed hunting rifle as well for my pact weapon. oh and mage armor

[stark maple]

how crazy would/annoying would it be if there wa sa feat that gave players more then one reaction

[harsh hollow]

I think there's a few rare circumstances where you can get more than one reaction but those are 3rd party.

[humble cairn]

Maybe check out the Basic Rules, which are free to read online to learn the basics. It makes conversations easier. folks over at #dnd-newcomers also like to help with that.

[harsh hollow]

One of the griffon's saddlebag items does it and I think one of the Monster Hunter subclasses does too.

[mighty wharf]

I read the rules, I just forgot

[stark maple]

what item im curiou

[humble cairn]

I like Message as a Utility Cantrip, if you already have EB.

Though Shocking Grasp is good to get out of melee.

[harsh hollow]

I'd have to go sifting through the items again but I think it was some kind of speed-releted amulet.

[urban bolt]

I don't, i specifically didn't take EB since it sort of felt like it trvialized the resource dependency of my rifle.

The campaign has already started.

[feral fulcrum]

I love my speed enhacing items and feats (And spells).

[humble cairn]

It's a great backup to have, but ok.

[harsh hollow]

And then Monster Hunter is kind of based around a special reaction they get to do so it's not too surprising they'd get more.

[stark maple]

the new mage slayer makes me so angry

[feral fulcrum]

Nyooming around the battlefield at like 90 feet per turn, doing damage just by moving, is quite fun.

[urban bolt]

Sure. But if it's always there as a backup, then i wouldn't plan around my ammunition, which would nullify half the reason i wanted the hunting rifle to begin with, haha. Being resource dependent on a part of my combat is very fun. Besides, hexblade lets me turn into a very competent skirmisher when needed.

[urban bolt]

Me playing Hades:

[stark maple]

one of the scariest magic items has to be the staff of the woodlands

[humble cairn]

I think we migt have different definitions of skirmisher.

[harsh hollow]

I do think it's interesting the new repeating guns for Artificer just make their own ammo if you don't have it now. I don't think the old one did that.

[urban bolt]

That was the term my party used, so i just copied it. They said "long to medium range" for my character.

[stark maple]

i still think it has to be the strongest blue tier item in dnd

[humble cairn]

Skirmisher is basically someone who can hit and run safely, which needs features that let you retreat without taking OAs.

[urban bolt]

Bleh. I hate class features like that. I get why, of course, and nothing wrong with them, but there's nothign quite like the pressure of strategy being pushed from resources.

[humble cairn]

I don't care for counting ammo, myself. It's just .. uninteresting.

[urban bolt]

Oh, well, then just melee then i suppose? They defined it as a 1x1 melee specialist or something like that. I dunno, i find i would be effective even if i am hacking at a couple different guys.

[grizzled lance]

I agree being able to cast awaken as an action is awesome

[harsh hollow]

I can see why some people might like it but it's one of the mundane things that often go ignored even if you don't have a feature that allows it.

[knotty pasture]

1v1 melee specialists aren't necessarily skirmishers

[hardy bobcat]

For medieval settings that need more representation, where’s Egypt, Celtic Ireland, Thailand, Lithuania, Carthage or Romania?

[knotty pasture]

The defining trait of a skirmisher is the mobility/hit and run part

[urban bolt]

ooooh, it's my favourite part. having to time hex's, hexblade curses, and reloading, and then keeping track on ammunition and planning out my strategy from that...

[feral fulcrum]

Raging Barbarbian, for example. They don't like running.

[harsh hollow]

I'm so sad they nerfed it a little bit in 2024.

[urban bolt]

Ugh. it's so fun.

[knotty pasture]

Yeah I'd be hard pressed to call a Barb a skirmisher in general

[urban bolt]

I'm aware of that now, i thought skirmishers were just like, 1x1 guys, not kiting guys. sorry for the confusion :(

[grizzled lance]

It was nerfed?

[harsh hollow]

(The 2024 Staff of the Woodlands can't cast Pass Without Trace at will now, it also costs charges.)

[grizzled lance]

I prefer having a tree army

Using the awakened tree stat block

[harsh hollow]

A free spell is a free spell though, and a pretty good one at that.

[humble cairn]

Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel added a lot of cultural inspiration. Including Thailand.

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but your forgetting whenever you cast a spell from a magic item it only cost an action

[hardy bobcat]

Oooo! New book? Just getting back into DND from WOD.

[urban bolt]

You could argue celtic ireland is in alot of fey stuff, given the source.

[feral fulcrum]

That's purely homebrew territory, as WOTC focuses purely on it's own made up settings. Though it does weirdly just yoinking Egyptian and Norse gods in some settings. It's weird.

[rough basalt]

Newish

[urban bolt]

Not at all lol

[harsh hollow]

Oh yeah no quick Awaken is cool, I'm just saying it's less strong without free pass without trace.

[hardy bobcat]

Well, the entire place instead of just the creatures

[humble cairn]

A couple years old at this point, but great. Highly recommend.

[feral fulcrum]

It's weird seeing Pelor and Bahamut right next to bloody Thoth and Zeus.

[rough basalt]

It's going on 4 years old so not old old but not new new

[hardy bobcat]

Aight, thanks dudes

[rough basalt]

It is a good book tho

[grizzled lance]

True

[harsh hollow]

My character has the 2014 staff actually, I should pass without trace more.

[rough basalt]

Radiant Citadel is an interesting place

[urban bolt]

Also, Amonkhet exists. Literally quintessential egypt, just an integrated mTG setting.

[hardy bobcat]

Best to make up new stuff or go kinda historical

[humble cairn]

Not a super big deal but I don't prefer to be called any variation on "bro" or "dude" if you don't mind.

[hardy bobcat]

Too bad I don’t know much MTG lore

[hardy bobcat]

Thanks peeps

[urban bolt]

It's a published setting on it's own, you don't have to know it much.

[feral fulcrum]

The Planeshift Book covers what little there is to know about that's relavant to D&D set in it.

[hardy bobcat]

Sounds like getting into Arcane without having to play League

[hardy bobcat]

K, that’s stuff that’ll help

[feral fulcrum]

The MTG Books don't really have anything to do with the wider MTG Plots. On account of being a side passion project from one guy. And I'd say that's a good thing. MTG Lore gets very stupid very frequently.

[urban bolt]

Uh, not really? I also don't know what either of those are, but it really is mostly standalone

[hardy bobcat]

Arcane is a show based off a game, League of Legends. Seems like you don’t need to know about League to watch the show.

[urban bolt]

Okay, y'all hard distracted me, so i'ma be off, bye bye fellas

[rough basalt]

League is League of Legends, a big moba, and Arcane is an anime set in its world Runeterra in Piltover/Zaun, two cities stacked together.

DnD equivalent would be like needing to know DnD to watch DnD honor among thieves

You don't necessarily need to, just knowing makes the experience better

[feral fulcrum]

The only new thing I learned from knowing of Honor Among Theives is that there's a VERY fat dragon in the Underdark.

[hardy bobcat]

Looking back, that movie did feel like a regular ole dnd game

[rough basalt]

Themberchaud

He kept getting fed stuff like a waste disposal iirc

[hardy bobcat]

A shame his name isn’t Chonkasaurus

[rough basalt]

Yeah it did a good job of feeling very dnd

[hardy bobcat]

Thimblechonk should be his new name

[rough basalt]

It was underappreciated when it came out cause of the OGL crisis

[hardy bobcat]

I did sewing once in elementary, Thimbles are chonky.

[rough basalt]

If the OGL crisis didn't happen we likely would've gotten the sequel

[hardy bobcat]

A shame bad timing killed the interest. I heard a sequel was possible if well…

[rough basalt]

Yeah cause if WotC didn't try that stuff, the DnD fans would've went to see it

Still mightve not gotten the sequel but WotC made sure to confirm the kill

[grizzled lance]

When is dnd gonna release new stuff

[rough basalt]

Soon tm

There's nothing announced currently

[grizzled lance]

I mean wizards

I hope we get a reworked vecna stat block

[rough basalt]

I don't think we'll get another Vecna statblock for 5e personally.

[grizzled lance]

Most likely probably not

But I can hope for it cause the one we have currently is so bad

[rough basalt]

His name got tainted a bit by stranger things and EoR was mixed reception iirc

[burnt valley]

There wasn't a Vecna statblock wdym

[grizzled lance]

Long finger jim

I still think it’s really funny if you have the eye and hand you can touch a creatures bones to jelly

[prime basin]

[rough basalt]

We're probably not gonna get much full adventures from now on.

[grizzled lance]

Dropping it to 0 hit points

[rough basalt]

Setting books/expansions and anthologies are my guesses

[grizzled lance]

I see

I’m still wandering If twilight is gonna get nerfed

[burnt valley]

We need a "Death of Mystra" campaign

[rough basalt]

Nah, Twilights fine

[grizzled lance]

“Die Mystra Die”

[burnt valley]

True

[rough basalt]

If they were gonna nerf it they would've reprinted it in the PHB to nerf it like the Tashas subs they reprinted cause they buffed and changed.

[burnt valley]

They should nerf Barbarians in general

[grizzled lance]

They wouldn’t have

[prime basin]

does everyone just hate mystra in this server?

[humble cairn]

Why on Toril would they do that?

[burnt valley]

Trigger warning on M*stra please

[rough basalt]

They probably would've cause they did add Tashas subs they changed in the new PHB.

[grizzled lance]

Cause it Twilight came from Tasha’s

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but none of the sub classes did

[burnt valley]

I should've specified Totem Barbarian

[rough basalt]

Yes They did

[grizzled lance]

Which?

[humble cairn]

Still, why

[rough basalt]

Mercy Monk, Glory Paladin, Clockwork Sorcerer, Aberrant Sorcerer

[grizzled lance]

Mercy monk isn’t Tasha

[prime basin]

"We need a "Death of Mystra" campaign", said Limeguy.

[rough basalt]

Yes it is

Also Psionic rogue subclass got reprinted which was Tashas

[burnt valley]

Dammit i forgot

[grizzled lance]

Oh it is

[rough basalt]

Circle of Stars

[prime basin]

Soulknife

[rough basalt]

Ye soulknife

[grizzled lance]

Still I think twilight might get nerfed anyway

[rough basalt]

Idk what'd they nerf about it

[burnt valley]

The Bear totem rage is abit overtuned, they should slim down abit of the resistances gained

[grizzled lance]

Like putting a cap on the amount of temp Hp it can generate

[rough basalt]

There's no need

[grizzled lance]

2024 or 2014?

[rough basalt]

It's a max of 26 at level 20, that's not even one attack negated on average.

[prime basin]

We need to nerf way of the ascendant dragon

[grizzled lance]

You can also just remove charmed or frightened

[knotty pasture]

Twilight already got indirectly nerfed iirc

[grizzled lance]

How

[rough basalt]

Yeah, which is fine.

[burnt valley]

2024

[rough basalt]

Being able to remove charm or frightened won't break a game

[knotty pasture]

Since its worthwhile features are locked behind level 3 (when you can pick a subclass) instead of level 1

[rough basalt]

It's easy to get immunity or advantage against those conditions

[knotty pasture]

Less valuable as a dip

[grizzled lance]

It’s not immune to force neurotic or psy it’s fine as is

Oh yeah that’s true

[burnt valley]

Remove Radiant and Thunder damage resistances

[grizzled lance]

They also just got proficiency with marital weapons and heavy armor

[grizzled lance]

It’s not resistance to radiant either but why remove thunder..?

There aren’t many creatures that do thunder damage lmao

[burnt valley]

Because people will attempt to make a work around this nerf, they gotta embrace the nerf

It will be powergaming if they try to excel at their subclasses' niche

[grizzled lance]

Why thunder is specific..

Your already not resistant to nercotic which is pretty common damage type for enemies

[rough basalt]

Yeah Necrotic Resistance is probably one of the best

[burnt valley]

Exactly

[grizzled lance]

Fire and posion resistance are also good

[rough basalt]

Had a whole dungeon in my Tuesday game that was just constant "Necrotic damage that reduces max hp"

[grizzled lance]

And a lot of higher level creatures do force damage

[rough basalt]

Which made me really want Necrotic Resistance

[burnt valley]

Thats too good, maybe just go for Fire instead of Thunder

[rough basalt]

Force damage is definitely around yeah

[grizzled lance]

Your a bear your whole thing is that your suppose to tank damage

[rough basalt]

The biggest buff to barb tho was the removal of non-magical BPS

[grizzled lance]

True

Lots of creatures lost there immunity’s

[prime basin]

This is why shadar-kai is one of my top 3 races

[rough basalt]

Just flat bps Resistance stays pretty relevant

[burnt valley]

B-But my d12 hp die should be enough

[rough basalt]

Even later on when force comes into play, at least half damage will still be physical on a lot of monster

Bear barb did need nerfed

[grizzled lance]

Granted it’s a lot more rare for a creature to be resistance to BPS

[prime basin]

as a barbarian, you should strive for getting 400 hp

[grizzled lance]

It’s already nerfed enough imo it doesn’t need another

[rough basalt]

Yeah BPS resistance on enemies is rare

[burnt valley]

Also wouldn't it be powergaming

[grizzled lance]

Plus elemental adapt is a thing

[rough basalt]

And most of them are swarms of insects and stuff

[prime basin]

it was indeed made

[grizzled lance]

How is choosing a sub class powrr gaming

“I wanna take less damage”

“Power gamer!!”

[burnt valley]

You gotta let the DM throw you around, they want to be able to use their toys against you

They are players too

[grizzled lance]

That’s a bad dm

[rough basalt]

The dm can throw a bear barb around pretty easily

[prime basin]

I would only define powergaming as purposefully doing something that your character doesn't have knowledge of or purposefully breaking mechanics for your advantage

[grizzled lance]

That

[rough basalt]

Got a bear barb? Time for Intellect devourers

[grizzled lance]

Giant spiders

[prime basin]

its a gem dragonborn

[burnt valley]

B-But paladin auras! Bless!

[grizzled lance]

I still think it was very hard to make a bad Paladin in 2014

[rough basalt]

Paladin aura isn't a guaranteed save

[prime basin]

Bro is in the future

[rough basalt]

I see a lot of failures on saves with Bless up too

[grizzled lance]

It’s not but it’s helps out a ton

[rough basalt]

It's just the nature of a luck based game

[grizzled lance]

Adding your charisma mod to any saving throw is great

[prime basin]

So true...New meta guys ignore bless for shield of faith

[burnt valley]

Notice how I'm making fun of certain players' mindset and behaviour

[rough basalt]

Nah they ignore Bless for the real powergaming spell

[burnt valley]

Genuinely they actually use these types of arguments

[rough basalt]

Ceremony

[grizzled lance]

Ceremony is peak

[prime basin]

Thats an endgame spell and we all know it

[rough basalt]

Getting married gives you +2AC? Gotta nerf

[burnt valley]

Being poly is optimal

[grizzled lance]

How is it

[prime basin]

[grizzled lance]

Remember to kill your partner at the end of the 7 days

[prime basin]

Poly people are truly powergaming

[prime basin]

indeed, 2014 zealot barbarian

[grizzled lance]

Then re marry them

[burnt valley]

You can marry your familiar with Nystul's

[grizzled lance]

It says adult Pc

My bad willing adult humanoids

[burnt valley]

Skeleton familiar with pact of the chain

[grizzled lance]

That’s an undead

[burnt valley]

Nystul's Magic Aura lets you change someone's creature type

[grizzled lance]

I’m not sure if that would work but ok

I still don’t like that they nerfed wild shape so much

[rough basalt]

Looking forward to running a game in the magic country of my homebrew

Get to use some desert monsters and maps

And of course magic in every encounter with people

[grizzled lance]

Might play wizard the strongest class

[prime basin]

Factually incorrect at this point

[grizzled lance]

Wdym

[prime basin]

The strongest spellcasting class is sorcerer

[grizzled lance]

Right

[prime basin]

you can argue in later game that wizard is able to hold its own with sorcerer, but overall its sorcerer

[drifting fox]

class strength? what's class strength?

[grizzled lance]

Still being able to swap at your spells on a long rest is much better for the sake of utility

Unlike sorcerer who still had to swap em every level up

[burnt valley]

Sorcerer has a more limited spell list

[grizzled lance]

That too not by much tho

[drifting fox]

i agree though wizard is the strongest full casting class

but not by a large margin

[undone rain]

I believe we all agree its better then warlock

[drifting fox]

strongest class period is paladin

[prime basin]

It is indeed better for utility, but sorcerers can cast more in a turn, make them stronger, make the dc higher, transmute the damage, etc

[grizzled lance]

Warlock is just weird

[burnt valley]

It still has to compete with Druid and Warlock

[knotty pasture]

Nah that's Wizard

[drifting fox]

this is why the rangers and the monks of the world need to team up to kill all paladins

[undone rain]

One spell casted and ohhh shit out of spellslots again

[knotty pasture]

Sorc sees great value as a dip in general that being said, Divine Soul is an art

[prime basin]

Listen Jon Snow, I love paladins too but they don't hold a candle to full spellcasters

[urban bolt]

Warlock? Somebody mention warlock?

[grizzled lance]

Uh dm I need a short rest

[drifting fox]

i don't even like them

[knotty pasture]

But I think Sorc sits at #4 or #5 overall

[prime basin]

Yes, and I love them

[burnt valley]

Sorcerer is just a prestige class for Warlocks

[undone rain]

Eb spam time

[grizzled lance]

Did they ever patch the coffee lock?

[burnt valley]

If this happens, you aren't using your slots correctly so this isn't an argument

[grizzled lance]

He means warlock

[urban bolt]

I typically use warlock spell slots to just get out a touch spot, like hellish rebuke or expedetious retreat

[grizzled lance]

Warlocks can’t even can’t spells above level 6 without arcane

[prime basin]

uses force cage

[burnt valley]

They get True Polymorph, this already makes them Top 3

[drifting fox]

warlocks aren't intended to use their spells super often

[urban bolt]

That's why you pact of the blade :)

[grizzled lance]

True

[burnt valley]

MELEE LUL

[drifting fox]

they're kind of cantrip merchants

[prime basin]

Coward

[drifting fox]

more specifically eldritch blast merchants

[knotty pasture]

Coffeelocks are banned by DMs in general though right?

[urban bolt]

My warlock is both long-distance range and a dual fighting melee all in one.

[grizzled lance]

Granted there is no limits on the amount of short rest you can take

[drifting fox]

you can do that with a ranger

[knotty pasture]

Regardless if it was patched out or not, I'm curious about Tealocks that being said

[burnt valley]

Its overrated in terms of how strong they are unfortunately

[prime basin]

Coffeelocks aren't really good anymore. Not that their bad they just don't really have the juice compared to other types of warlocks

[urban bolt]

Okay?

[drifting fox]

what are coffeelocks

[knotty pasture]

I think Coffeelocks may be even less acceptable than Silvery Barbs (which gets put on the chopping board often themselves)

[prime basin]

Nice capstone btw

[burnt valley]

They will contribute more by just staying in ranged, theres no need needlessly risk dying by going melee

[prime basin]

The glaze is unreal

[grizzled lance]

Pretty much using short rest to and then using meta magic to consume the warlock slots to get full spell slots back

[urban bolt]

For my character, no.

[drifting fox]

what does capstone mean in this context im not familiar with this use of the word

[knotty pasture]

Converting Warlock spell slots into sorcery points (as a Sorcerer + Warlock multiclass) and then short resting to gain these slots back, allowing infinite spell slots if your character race doesn't require much sleeping if at all

[prime basin]

Your 20th level feature for rangers

[grizzled lance]

Ranger’s hunter mark does 1d10

[urban bolt]

I play a pact of blade / hexblade, so they're a genuinely competent melee fighter who can attack three times at level 5.

[drifting fox]

ohh those

[undone rain]

I will however multiclass my paladin into warlock since they both use charisma and stuff

[prime basin]

An insane improvement if you ask me

[drifting fox]

yeah but level 20 is level 20

[grizzled lance]

If you get eleven accuracy you can almost never miss

[feral fulcrum]

I hard disagree. Not at level 20. You upgrade it to a full 1d20 extra damage and I'd still say it's a wet fart of a Capstone.

[knotty pasture]

Alternatively, look for ways to cheat out the requirement to sleep to do this exploit as well

[prime basin]

Idk a potential 4 damage more is pretty crazy

[grizzled lance]

1d6 to 1d10 don’t spend it all in one place

🥀

[drifting fox]

we're just blessed like that, one of the many boons of being the best class in the game.

[grizzled lance]

Your a watered down Druid

[prime basin]

oh and rangers ability to never lose hunters mark on damage as they get incapacitated, stunned, hypnotic patterned, charmed, etc is truly amazing

[drifting fox]

you're just saying that because you're jealous

[feral fulcrum]

The humble +8 potential max damage (Without getting into the weeds of Haste/Dual Wielding/nick) at level 20 is...not wowing me.

[drifting fox]

it's ranger nothing is supposed to wow you

[grizzled lance]

Ranger still ain’t good

[drifting fox]

this class is dogshit but it's MY dogshit

[prime basin]

New ranger subclass idea

The Cope Wanderer

[burnt valley]

No at-will speed reduction
No at-will forced movement
Creatures deal more damage in melee than in ranged

[feral fulcrum]

I'd like Capstones to feel impressive and useful, not like "Wow you really ran out of ideas there.". Looks at 2014 Paladins

[prime basin]

Its too goated to even make someone wowed

[burnt valley]

Nick isn't even worth it too 😭

[prime basin]

Way to make every person named Nick out there sad

[urban bolt]

🤷‍♀️ He does just fine in melee, besides, i don't have much a choice, since i didn't take EB and my main ranged weapon is a hunting rifle, so i have ammunition. if i run out, i need that melee.

[drifting fox]

i think everyones starting on the "ranger sucks" train like we haven't known for years that ranger sucks

[grizzled lance]

When did Ranger even come out

[drifting fox]

i just play it because i think it's fun and the class is cool

[feral fulcrum]

In D&D as a whole, or in 5e? Because it was here on launch in 5e.

[prime basin]

Oh yeah ranger sucks, but it sucks so bad that It somehow became worse than monk

[drifting fox]

it was a subclass for a while i think

[grizzled lance]

As a whole

[feral fulcrum]

I know not that eldritch lore.

[drifting fox]

it was always a debate which one is worse

[prime basin]

Indeed it was

[drifting fox]

that's why i think all rangers and monks need to team up to defeat all paladins

[noble basin]

Why do people still think ranger is bad lmao😭 I thought we left that years ago

[grizzled lance]

Oh monk was definitely down there dealing 1d4 with there damage dice

[prime basin]

They couldn't even defeat paladins if they tried, despite the smite nerf

[drifting fox]

i meant in real life

[feral fulcrum]

I like Tasha's Ranger quite a bit. I don't like the needless focus on Hunters Mark in 2024. Or that 2014 Ranger Spells expected a Ranger with a Bow, and ONLY a bow. But that's pretty much my only complaints with the class.

[grizzled lance]

I mean when most people think of Ranger they think of a dude with a bow

[drifting fox]

the average monk player is probably fueled by ungodly amounts of testosterone if they play monk

[grizzled lance]

Sun soul monk was a crime

[lyric viper]

I've always found the 'ranger/monk bad' topic to be one of these purely theoretical, meta discussions because every time I've seen them played in my games the players are having a grand time.

[drifting fox]

no no i meant the players not the irl equivalents

[drifting fox]

yeah in practice it's not that big of a difference

[feral fulcrum]

You should still have the option to use Melee without nuetering your spellcasting. No other class had issues with weird weapon restrictions outside Paladin.

[inner kayak]

Tis for true, yeh.

[drifting fox]

like as a ranger player my rangers consistently dish out good damage and are very very good in most out of combat situations

you put a ranger and a bard together and your party is SET for rp and exploration

[prime basin]

Oh rangers do good no doubt. I wouldn't say any class is trash for 2024 the ranger is just the worst of them

[humble cairn]

"Best/Worst Class" takes are not super useful.

[prime basin]

In your opinion for sure

[lyric viper]

I just wish the conversation around that actually acknowledged the nuances and also personal preferences, because I get so sad when I see newer players that come on this server start repeating the 'Oh ranger sucks, don't play a ranger'

[drifting fox]

generally speaking yeah but we're just making conversation

[inner kayak]

Everybody knows, bruv, artificer is the cream of the crop. Da best.

[grizzled lance]

It looks I’m the best and your the worst

[lyric viper]

So actually I really do think that the 'ranger/monk' bad topics (along with the 'Martials are useless') are genuinely toxic conversations that harm the community.

[drifting fox]

i tell everyone to play ranger because we're an underrepresented minority in the community lmao

[prime basin]

Ranger does suck compared to other classes, that doesn't mean the class itself is bad nor should it be ignored

I've played a strength based, 2014 (not tasha's) ranger before

[humble cairn]

Agreed. I find it to detract from most such conversations because the actual measure of how good a class is is simply how much fun a player has with them, meaning it's subjective. And "Ranger Bad" memes turn people off to a class they might otherwise have had a ton of fun with.

[burnt valley]

Ranger is better than pure martial classes solely because of spellcasting and ranged specialisation

[noble basin]

That's just not true😭 😭

[humble cairn]

They're not really ranged specialized.

[drifting fox]

"you see that cool guy drizzt do'urden? don't you wanna be the same class as that badass?"

[grizzled lance]

I hope conjuraction gets a rework

[burnt valley]

Its like the best weapon user in the game 2014

[humble cairn]

I'm having a ton of fun on my Ranger and also doing great in comparison to my partymates.

[undone rain]

Well seems like artificer is out of the question to plaaaay

[drifting fox]

paladin: am i a joke to you?

[burnt valley]

Change Minor Conjuration to no longer need DM fiat

[prime basin]

Point out to me how ranger engages in good rp and good combat mechanics in the same way a paladin, rogue, or any other class does please

[knotty pasture]

Gloom Stalker is an artstyle

[burnt valley]

They are aura and bless bots

[humble cairn]

RP can be achieved just the same by any class, because "RP" doesn't mean "social."

[urban bolt]

so can warlock

[drifting fox]

rangers are better at stuff like tracking, animal handling, survival, generally probably good at medicine

[humble cairn]

And in combat my Ranger contributes just as much as any other member of the party.

[knotty pasture]

Yeah but Warlock isn't a half caster or a martial

[lyric viper]

The ...four rangers I've had in my games have been terrifying in and out of combat, and the one drunken monk had a a blast. RP flavourwise and mechanically. So much laughter at managing to stun an enemy at the right time. And zipping about.

[noble basin]

😭 You mention rogue which is arguably the weakest class in the game besides maybe barbarian. I'm not really gonna mention rp cause you kinda gotta make that yourself but for combat they're great for consistent damage and generating stealth with pwt.

[drifting fox]

true that

[urban bolt]

Pact of blade and hexblade? That's martial, very martial.

[knotty pasture]

That's a gish

[urban bolt]

What

[burnt valley]

Rogue should be renamed to non-third party Commoner

[drifting fox]

i'd say halfcaster that's really good at both

[humble cairn]

Gish refers to a caste of Githyanki Mage Knights who went into combat with a blade in one hand and a spell in the other, but the word has now been generalized to characters who use both weapons and magic in combat.

[urban bolt]

I think it's technically a quater caster

[knotty pasture]

Hexblade can't outmelee or outshoot actual martials, and still has a large list of spells compared to Paladin and Ranger

[lyric viper]

Like my personal preference is that I don't enjoy playing sorcerer. I found I burnt out too quick on sorc points, was limited in spells. Just didn't vibe with it.

Another player loved sorc.

[urban bolt]

Oh okay. I knew the race, but no the context behind it for this.

[humble cairn]

Pact Casters are neither full nor half casters, they are Pact Casters.

[drifting fox]

i like your funny words magic man

[humble cairn]

Warlocks do not fit the definitions of spellcasters in the multiclass rules, they are a seperate thing.

[urban bolt]

Hexblade blade pact blade can dual wield like a fighter subclass no problamo. I'll admit it isn't a 1-1, but you can get pretty decent martial effectiveness form one

[knotty pasture]

Yeah no you do more damage by Eldritch spam than actually meleeing people even as Pact of the Blade Hexblade

[humble cairn]

Three attacks eventually is great, they are somewhat squishy, though, hard to stay in the front line, better to skirmish.

[drifting fox]

dual wielder fighters are nice i played one at some point

[prime basin]

Rogue literally cannot roll below 10 on its checks, get sneak attack damage almost everytime they hit someone (the sneak attack damage is also usually more damage than hunter's mark), have special actions that let you get out of someone who is trying to keep you in melee, let you hide, and let you move more all for a bonus action. They also have an ability to give them free advantage if they don't move, can take no damage on a dex throw if successful, can use their reactions to halve damage, etc.

[knotty pasture]

That melee isn't meant to be overrelied on

[urban bolt]

Yeah, agreed. The tough feat works fine for me for keeping up on health.

[drifting fox]

yeah rogue is very good in and out of combat

[prime basin]

The entirety of the rangers class is dedicated on expertise, turning invisible for a bit, and improving hunter's mark in decent ways

[drifting fox]

YEAH WE DO! AND WE DO IT WELL!

[glass granite]

I’d say rangers can do everything
But never anything amazingly

[knotty pasture]

No its being a PWT bot and playing tower defense

[noble basin]

You forget spells an extra attack and fighting style

All of which Rogue doesn't have

[drifting fox]

most people see what ranger gets and seem to forget that they also get a fighting style and a good amount of weapon proficiencies, they're half casters

[knotty pasture]

Rangers are better assassins than Assassin Rogue

[humble cairn]

Rangers are martial half casters with a spell list that has a versatile roster of Damage, Utility, Support, and Control spells. Used tactically, they are great at a lot of things, though they can't do all of it at once.

[drifting fox]

truth

[glass granite]

They get ALL weapon prof

[knotty pasture]

Because one doesn't have means to generate more stealth to boost its main gimmick and the other has a stealth gimmick

[burnt valley]

True

[drifting fox]

fr? i only ever use longbows and dual scimitars im going to keep it a stack

[prime basin]

Oh yeah i forgot extra attack, the spells that won't be used because your using hunters mark or if they are used you're willingly throwing 3 of your class features away, and the extra attack that lets you attack for a total of your weapons damage die and 1d6 more

[glass granite]

Hunters mark is free casts

[prime basin]

The mere concept of rogue being worse than ranger is an absolute spit in the face to the class

[noble basin]

Just don't use hunters mark then😭 besides it doesn't cost spell slots first few times

[burnt valley]

Hunter's Mark is simply solved by not using it

[urban bolt]

People get so passionate about this

[prime basin]

sneak attack doesn't need to be casted

[humble cairn]

I play a Wisdom maxed Beast Master using Shillelagh and Magic Stone, I switch up between ranged and melee fairly easily and my spells have a good chance at succeeding. Plus all my attacks, including my companion attacks and my Summons attacks are Wisdom based.

[drifting fox]

rogues have way more damage to an ungodly degree compared to rangers

[humble cairn]

Agreed, I have only used Hunter's Mark like twice and I do just fine without it.

[knotty pasture]

Get some tissue, you'll need it Rogue really ain't it especially against Ranger

[prime basin]

Very true, and yet three of the classes features are thrown away if you don't use it

[glass granite]

I’m not saying that rogue is worse than Ranger, but I’m just giving points in rangers favour

[drifting fox]

due to far mor consistent hits and sneak attack

[knotty pasture]

Rogue v Barb has a lot more room for discussion by virtue of not being such a one sided convo

And no Sneak Attack dps doesn't compare to Extra Attack

[glass granite]

I feel like at least in my games they’re around equal power. Most classes are around the same for me.

[drifting fox]

at the end of the day? never trust the rogue.

[humble cairn]

Ehh ... Rogues are better at consistent damage numbers than high damage numbers. More dice tends to skew the numbers toward the middle of the Bell Curve.

[knotty pasture]

Be funny if, and this is a hot take, if Sneak Attack is an unconditional damage bonus to your hits

[prime basin]

W ragebait

[noble basin]

Rogue damage is vastly overrated lol

[drifting fox]

as long as nobodys minmaxxing 100%

[knotty pasture]

Rogue still wouldn't beat a spellcaster but...

[humble cairn]

You just get one chunky hit per turn, it helps them keep up with the Extra Attack classes, but numerically doesn't surpass them.

[noble basin]

People see rolling a lot of dice and think it's actually good damage versus extra attack

[drifting fox]

side note: horizon walker best subclass for ranger fight me

[knotty pasture]

What's that I think you misspelt Gloom Stalker?

[humble cairn]

I mean it is very decent, since it raises the damage floor, so you never get disappointing numbers.

[drifting fox]

oh no not about mechanics, it's about cool factor

[prime basin]

2d6 extra damage per turn is fire

[noble basin]

Interesting hill to die on

[burnt valley]

I mean its a low op game so it wouldn't be felt around that level

[drifting fox]

horizon walker is way cooler than gloom stalker (therefore it's the best)

[noble basin]

It's fine

[prime basin]

I was referring to hunter's mark

[drifting fox]

truth

[noble basin]

Well considering the investment of concentration and not being able to switch it without using actin economy it's kinda like I guess

Better than nothing sometimes ig

[humble cairn]

Hunter's Mark is actually good at low levels.

And then can be phased out.

[noble basin]

Good is generous I'd say more like decent

[drifting fox]

for other classes maybe

2024 ranger for some reason is entirely based on hunters mark

[glass granite]

I like rogue or ranger dips for my monk

[drifting fox]

which is stupid imo

[burnt valley]

True also its m*lee

[humble cairn]

I did a spell by spell comparison from Ranger levels 1-9. They don't actually have a direct compeititon for it's actual purpise until level 9.

[noble basin]

Wdym

[glass granite]

Not inherently

[prime basin]

Yeah except ranger gives you 3 features based on using it, all at later levels

[drifting fox]

it can be both right..?

[humble cairn]

No, it's not that's overly hyped.

[prime basin]

instead of something actually useful

[humble cairn]

2024 Ranger can ignore Hunter's Mark and still be fine.

[noble basin]

Ehh I guess that's not amazing but bad features don't make a bad class

[inner kayak]

Bring back the psionic, says I.

[noble basin]

In terms of strength I mean. It absolutely does feel bad to reach those levels I'd say

[humble cairn]

And the number of levels invested into Favored Ebemy '24 is the exact same number of levels that Ranger '14 had invested into Favored Enemy '14, for something which is now much more usable outside of DM fiat. It's an improvement.

[drifting fox]

tbh it should be zero

[marble lion]

Jackie thats a wonderful status
Note: persevere

[noble basin]

Intentional

[marble lion]

Noted

[prime basin]

I don't really thing hunter's mark should be a spell. It should just be made to be a feature in the base class like how rogue does sneak attack

[noble basin]

Friend wanted matching ones and typed it with a spelling mistake to annoy me

[urban bolt]

What's a favorite hexblade weapon origin you guys have seen? :)

[marble lion]

Brutal

[humble cairn]

Take it from actual played experience, Ranger does entirely fine without using Hunter's Mark.

[drifting fox]

it's not ridiculous- it's not ridiculous to say that

[drifting fox]

except it still shouldn't be the way it is

[humble cairn]

It plays just fine the way it is. Have you tried it yourself?

[drifting fox]

yes i have.

[noble basin]

I think more like it feels bad to get features you don't really use.

[humble cairn]

In the early levels it's useful.

[drifting fox]

especially when they're in place of features that benefit everyone

[glass granite]

Especially for dual wielding rangers, imma play one in a one shot soon

[drifting fox]

the capstone is a hunters mark trait.

[glass granite]

Oh yeah the capstone is atrocious

[prime basin]

Ranger does do fine without it, it just sucks that so many features are based on it without meaningfully doing anything and that you have to use hunter's mark or those features do nothing

[humble cairn]

Which is an improvement on the old one, but I would agree that it's underwhelming.

[drifting fox]

exactly what i was trying to say but phrased much more eloquently

[noble basin]

Ok but realistically how many people reach their capstone. Though having something you're working towards does feel nice

[urban bolt]

Dual wielding is very fun.

[glass granite]

Yeah it’s lesser of the two evils

[noble basin]

Never really done it but it does seem like a fun idea to try sometime

[real epoch]

hello

[noble basin]

Hello

[urban bolt]

Do so! I recommend a warlock pact of blade / hexblade. It's very very fun.

[drifting fox]

i don't think anyone is saying hunters mark is bad

[real epoch]

whats going on?

[prime basin]

Ranger tangent and then someone said Rogue is worse than ranger

[humble cairn]

The 1st level feature is actually useful, since you can save spell slots. The 13th level one is meh, the 17th level one is decent, and the 20th level feature is underwhelming. Overall kind of so-so, but the one you use the most is the one that's the most useful.

[humble cairn]

Hunter's Mark could have used some work in scaling, I think, but I don't propose to know what that should look like. My opinion is that Ranger is good, but Hunter's Mark is somewhat meh.

[noble basin]

That's me!

[humble cairn]

But HM being somewhat meh doesn't actually take away from Ranger, since Ranger doesn't depend on HM.

[burnt valley]

This is true, DM fiat reliance and dead levels are bad game design for subclass features

[prime basin]

except they are all tied to hunter's mark. So if you want to concentrate on ranger's higher leveled spells then you just don't interact with your 1st, 13th, 17th, and 20th level ability

[drifting fox]

that's not what im saying-

[real epoch]

Rogue worse than Ranger? That’s debatable lol

[noble basin]

Yeah but that doesn't really matter if you have other good core features

[humble cairn]

Level 13 and 17 for Ranger are not dead, though. Getting 4th and 5th level spells is significant.

[prime basin]

thats a 5th of the classes entire features

[noble basin]

Guess what we're doing

[urban bolt]

Aye aye aye

[drifting fox]

i'm just saying that the way the class is (having features completely dependent on hunters mark) is stupid and it shouldn't be that way

[burnt valley]

I didn't mean to say all levels were dead levels

[real epoch]

haha chatting

[burnt valley]

Rogue is basically Commoner the class

[lyric viper]

Ah, I feel like this conversation has done better than the way that was framed. The best/worst really isn't the best framework.

Talking about where thngs feel unsatisfactory at times, or don't play like they feel they should is a much more nuanced conversation that I'm seeing folk take, while acknowledging that they can still be fun to play for folk (and I'm grateful for)

[prime basin]

You mean the meh features?

[drifting fox]

we're not talking about that rn i don't think

[humble cairn]

But the most time you would use HM are form levels 1-9, when you don't have a direct competition for that exact function anyway. also is there a reason you're not pinging me? It helps me keep track of who'se talking to me if pinged.

[noble basin]

Extra attack and medium armor and shield and fighting style and spells yes

[real epoch]

Rogue really just Commoner but with a stick or two

[drifting fox]

im getting off cya

[prime basin]

I was talking about Tireless and Roving, the other 2 features that are meh

[noble basin]

Also more weapon proficiency I guess? Cause Rogue doesn't get all of them but that isn't that important since they basically get what they want anyways

[prime basin]

Right, but 3 of those abilities are after 9th level

[humble cairn]

Roving is Awesome! And I se Tireless every adventuring day.

[prime basin]

so why even add those in if hunter's mark isn't being used anymore?

[noble basin]

They're not outstanding I agree but they have their place I'd say

I like them

[prime basin]

You mean the one where you give yourself 1d8 + wis mod of hitpoints and you gain 10 feet extra worth of movement?

[noble basin]

Yeah that's not bad?

[humble cairn]

Yes, those. The extra Speed has helped me be much more tactical in combat, especially since I can move up walls.

[noble basin]

Not like superduper great of course

But it's a welcome addition

[humble cairn]

And I start the day with THP. Tireless is comparable in utility to Second Wind, but it's used more proactively rather than reactively.

I suppose it helps that I maxed Wisdom and use Wisdom to attack rather than Dex.

[remote wadi]

Nah, Rogue is growing up in the slums
Ranger is more equivalent to a lawful good peasant

[prime basin]

Rationalize that against upping your saving throws as a paladin and being able to literally apply the frightened condition to a bunch of foes infront of you causing them to not be able to move forward and have disadvantage on their attacks and ability checks?

[humble cairn]

Why would I do that? Those are entirely different features for entirely different things.

[noble basin]

Those are subclass features

[humble cairn]

Tireless is more equivalent to Second Wind

[prime basin]

Abjure foes and aura of protection are not subclass features?

[prime basin]

you mean the fighters 2nd level feature...the thing it gets 8 levels earlier?

[remote wadi]

Except Tireless also gets you a very easy way to remove exhaustion

[noble basin]

Protection is one of the best features yeah no debating that

[prime basin]

So true, exhaustion comes up so much in dnd games

[remote wadi]

I mean, it's the equivalent of unlocking night activities

[humble cairn]

Yes, in function it is closer to that.

Do we .. not know that different classes get different features at different levels?

[prime basin]

So the fighters 2nd level feature but worse because it can apply it to ability checks as well...but instead its at level 10

[noble basin]

Yeah it's pretty relevant

[noble basin]

The earlier the better is what they're getting at I assume

[humble cairn]

🤷🏽‍♂️

[remote wadi]

Understandable. Just 4d6 radiant damage base and advantage on a first level spell is really great. Not as valuable for upcasting a level or 2 like Sleep or Bless, but it is really great offensively

[prime basin]

would you prefer the hunters mark 1d10 damage at level 7 or level 20?

[noble basin]

Hey if I'm getting it anyways give it earlier

More bad features is more features ig

[prime basin]

I just think you guys need to look back and assess how much the ranger features actually provide for their class as a whole vs another classes features provide for their class like paladin, rogue, etc

[remote wadi]

Ranger's features are not the strong suit

But they're not useless either

[burnt valley]

Make it non concentration and make it scale with level

Start at d10 at Lvl 5

[remote wadi]

D10 at level 5 would be nuts, though

[burnt valley]

Its like extra 2 dmg increase from d8 so nah

[humble cairn]

Sure? And it does plenty well in comparison? Martial features and spellcasting is a great mix. Yes, I've played Paladin as well. They provide different experiences, one isn't better than the other.

[prime basin]

Do you unironically believe that last part?

[noble basin]

The duds don't counter act the really good features

[humble cairn]

Yes, that's why I said it?

[remote wadi]

Not to mention they don't make Ranger inherently bad. Still got crap tons of versatility for it

Although, it would be a bit funny for a big hunt to last 1 in game hour

[burnt valley]

Spellcasting is the strongest feature after all

[humble cairn]

Ranger is much more versatile in terms of weapons than a Paladin, as well. There's a very slight lean toward ranged weapons, but nothing as hard locked as only being able to use smites with melee weapons.

[glass granite]

What features prefer ranged?

[humble cairn]

Certain spells.

[glass granite]

That makes sense

[prime basin]

Most people are gonna run a dual wielding or bow ranger that uses hunter's mark at least up until level 9 and maybe after...nobody is running a strength ranger because people are looking to get more out of hunter's mark and they don't get that out of just having 2 attacks

[noble basin]

The game in general and archery fighting style

[humble cairn]

Dex Rangers good, Wis Rangers also good, Str Ranger honestly fine.

[prime basin]

Their "massive versatility" comes from expertise and some of their spells

[humble cairn]

There isn't anti-synergy with Ranger and Str.

You don't have to like Ranger, but just because you don't like Ranger doesn't make your opinion universal.

Nor "objective."

[glass granite]

Armor

[prime basin]

There inherently is..you get less out of hunters mark because your attacking less, you can only use up to medium armor and unless you put a 14 in dex your going to have a lower AC because you can't use heavy armor because you aren't proficienct and even if you were your 6th level feature would be useless. Wearing medium armor is also worse because you have disadvantage on stealth checks

[remote wadi]

Also, I didn't say to use Strength Ranger at all. Versatility doesn't mean playing with a whole new stat, it means being a class in the front or back, healing, utility, or damage

[humble cairn]

I see what you mean, but I don't feel that's anti-synergy?

[glass granite]

Well, the class simply does not support strength AC wise. Like going strength with monk.

[humble cairn]

Are you assuming you need to use Dex to use Nick Weapons? Because you don't.

[glass granite]

So I consider them anti-synergistic

[humble cairn]

And again, the lack of synergy is not an anti-synergy.

[remote wadi]

He can still have at least some Dexterity. Ranger also gets prof with medium armor

[prime basin]

versatility means fufilling several roles well enough at once. Healing on ranger is meh, damage on ranger will be pretty good, utility is decent, and your either going to be a dual wielding frontliner or a sit in the back sharpshooter. You also gain expertise which helps with being able to successfully pass skill checks

[humble cairn]

I think there's a middle ground between synergy and anti-synergy.

[glass granite]

Yeah but at that point you’re quite MAD

[glass granite]

Yeah, I can agree with that

[remote wadi]

Never said that it was an amazing idea. Just a possible one

[humble cairn]

So Ranger lacks synergy with Str builds, but I don't think it's anti-synergistic.

[remote wadi]

Doesn't matter that the healing is lackluster when you have a small party. All you need is 1 HP to not be dying again anyways

[humble cairn]

Anti-synergy would be something like Barbarian and spellcasting.

[hidden spindle]

Whoa now. Barbarian Magic is awesome~

[prime basin]

There is nothing to even benefit from meaningfully if you run with a str based ranger

[prime basin]

you have no idea how big the party is

[noble basin]

Weapon proficiency and fighting style

[prime basin]

and if your going to make the 1 hp point, then paladin simply outdoes ranger with lay on hands

[glass granite]

I mean you can use a lance and shield on a mount that’s pretty cool

[prime basin]

those apply to dex builds also

[glass granite]

But yeah strength rangers are definitely suboptimal

[knotty pasture]

Lacks good synergy with str builds at least, bg3 solved this at the cost of nuking Wis Ranger

For shame really, can't have both at the same time

[glass granite]

Yeah I would pretty much only go strength rangers with tortles. Same with strength monks.

[hidden spindle]

Strength Rangers can carry more stuff. Jump a little further. Break items a little easier. Can use more variety of Melee Weapons that don't use Finesse. Grapple a lot easier.

[knotty pasture]

The only issue is that you can't get the +2 AC from Medium Armor

And Heavy Armor requires a dip into another martial

[glass granite]

Which can be solved with a feat, which is nice, or a dip (though that is quite MAD)

[knotty pasture]

If its something like Fighter or Cleric its safe

[glass granite]

You need stats to multiclass out no?

[hidden spindle]

I mean if they're completely dumping Dex, Heavy Armor is the way to go

[noble basin]

Yeah

[knotty pasture]

Oh wait nvm you need 13 dex to multi out of Ranger

Damn this really is too restrictive

[hidden spindle]

But yeah, Heavily Armored works

[glass granite]

I remember helping Cracker out with his STRanger a while back and they had this very issue. Tis a shame.

[knotty pasture]

Variant Human or Tortle addresses this ig

[glass granite]

Indeed, though unfortunately no Vuman in 2024

[knotty pasture]

Or embrace Larianbrew

[hidden spindle]

Could be a Loxodon~

[glass granite]

That’s an alternative

Though, between your Dex and Wis, getting a lot of Con can be difficult

Not the worst tho

Also the thought of a loxodon ranger carrying a lance and shield is sick

[hidden spindle]

I play disjointed abilities scores all the time and it isn't even that bad. A Ranger could dump both DEX & WIS and still perform just fine

[glass granite]

Though maybe another weapon

[glass granite]

Oh wait I meant strength and wis

[prime basin]

I think i'd just dip a level into fighter

preferrably as many as I should playing ranger

[glass granite]

You’d need 13 in Dex, but yeah at this point it might be worth it

[hidden spindle]

Yeah, just need to qualify multiclassing scores

[knotty pasture]

Personally I'd brew multiclass scores for half casters into 13 in con/wis or con/cha

Instead of dex/wis and str/cha

[glass granite]

-# ma boi monk being the only class left that needs 2

[molten rain]

What sounds better for a feature name where you use your intelligence for charisma checks? Sophiscated Vocabulary or Intellectual Speech

[knotty pasture]

Nah Monk can be con/wis too

[glass granite]

Both are good, but I like the former a lil more

[hidden spindle]

Hmmm... Loxodon have a unique AC Calculation that can be applied if Armor AC is lower than your Natural Armor. Neat~

[molten rain]

Anyone else?

[hidden spindle]

Intellectual Speech~

Only because it is in the name. With Sophisticated Vocabulary, I would feel a tiny tug to be Sophisticated

[molten rain]

Alright thank you everyone

[hidden spindle]

Probably good they can grab Barkskin Spell, better in '24 than its '14 version

[prime basin]

indeed, it is probably a go-to grab

[glass granite]

One of my players volunteered to DM a one shot and I’m stoked

[still plover]

Nice! Do you have a pitch yet?

[hidden spindle]

Small species. STR based Beast Master Ranger with a Lance & Shield~ Works in '14 & '24

[glass granite]

Imma play a winter walker ranger

[glass granite]

I’ve considered doing it with drakewarden!

[hidden spindle]

That's a good one!

And apparently, perfect because of some Dragon Lance Weapon

[glass granite]

Never heard of it, just wanted to be a dragon rider
(How to Train Your Dragon was my CHILDHOOD)

[knotty pasture]

Curious, but I've been thinking

[undone rain]

Miiiight have made my bard a pyromancer

Because i gave him magic initiate

[prime basin]

Same, I made a homebrew subclass I plan to play next so I can do this

[knotty pasture]

If Artificer becomes a MAD class, what should its other main stat be, str?

[hidden spindle]

CON

[knotty pasture]

True

[feral fulcrum]

I thought they removed the one-handed Special property in 24? Edit: Upon double checking, it seems they did not.

[hidden spindle]

They did remove the 'Special' property. They added it in parentheses like they would for Versatile weapons

[quiet mist]

https://youtu.be/FHErIORUv0I?si=FcklYlGf_scj1Z7e

[still plover]

Hey, it looks like you posted a link to YouTube. What's it about?

-# And then you say "it's a site to share videos, but that's not important right now."

[quiet mist]

A popular group of comedians that’s playing DnD for the first time.

[quiet mist]

😭 I took that long to respond? 😭😭😭

[still plover]

I was just making an Airplane! joke, don't worry about it.

[tardy mica]

Okay guys, would it be possible for an elemental to combine with a corpse? Assuming it's done using magic

[still plover]

Yes. With magic.

[tardy mica]

Can I do everything with magic? 🤔

[tawdry sentinel]

Cold light walkers in the Icewind dale module have that vibe

[still plover]

If you're the DM, yes. If you're not the DM, try harder.

[tardy mica]

I am in fact the DM, therefore I'll be making my level 10 buddies fight an elemental cataclysm, and if they die that's their problem.

That is if they reach level 10 on time

[still plover]

So! Something previously stated I like to keep in mind, the PHB does not and should not represent the total achievable world for a PC. It's a starting point.

Some wizard wants to make an icebolt out of a firebolt and is willing to commit the time, resources and possible risk to doing it, I'm going to work with them.

[still plover]

In that case, sure, go for it. Some scattered notes and broken equipment to hint at the scale of the endeavour might be appropriate.

[prime basin]

I believe it won't be their problem because they are dead and therefore cannot do anything

[remote wadi]

So, uhhh... Paladin in my campaign has 16 AC at level 5, soon to be 6

Hope she hears me out on what to buy from the next place, or she might be a little cooked against the werewolf den coming up

[glad arch]

16 ac paladin? Rough

[glass granite]

Tbf armor is expensive af

[glad arch]

Are they just wearing chainmail

[glass granite]

Likely from starting equipment yeah

[remote wadi]

It's just chain mail

[undone rain]

Decided to get the magic initiate feat for my bard. Get some extra spells in

[severe rampart]

Why

[glass granite]

Noice

[undone rain]

Spells

[remote wadi]

Suggested some changes to bump up AC from 16 to 20 without losing too much damage

[severe rampart]

which magic initiate

[glad arch]

Whats their weapon?

[long oriole]

Does anyone know if there any channels or threads where the issues of T3+ play are explained? I often hear about it but it is always vague. I'm planning to let the group go beyond normal T4 and I want to prepare myself.

[undone rain]

Sorcerer

[glad arch]

Im assuming something 2 handed if they dont have a shield

[remote wadi]

Maul. Great Weapon FS. The 2014 one

[severe rampart]

okay nevermind you good

[severe rampart]

get a shield

[undone rain]

Yeah, i obviously wouldnt pick smth like a wizard lol

We focus on charisma

[glass granite]

I wouldn’t tell them to grab a shield personally

[severe rampart]

You know you can pick which spellcasting ability you can use for magic initiate feats, right?

[glass granite]

Better armor tho? If you can spare the expense

[glad arch]

Get them plate and maybe some bracers of defence, wont get the full AC of a shield paladin but good enough

[glass granite]

Is that the case in 2014?

[undone rain]

No i did not, but im fine with sorcerer

They got some nice spells for it

[remote wadi]

Suggested to her to swap from maul and Great Weapon FS to a homebrew shield and Defense FS (Shield in question is a tower shield: heavier shield that requires prof in heavy armor and shields, but gives +3 AC)

[glass granite]

I feel as if she wouldn’t have chosen a maul if she wanted a shield

[humble cairn]

Can I say that while I can see you're trying to be helpful, this is probably not your place? Especially to come here and get a whole chat to chime in on someone who's not even your character.

[glad arch]

For a paladin isnt that basically just a +1 shield

Seeing as they got those prificiencies anyways

[glass granite]

I second this tbh

[remote wadi]

With some extra pounds, yeah

[undone rain]

So i chose chromatic orb, firebolt and ray of frost

[glass granite]

Nice choices, surprised I don’t see sorcerous burst tho

[undone rain]

Simple spells, the way i like em

[humble cairn]

So to be clear, I think you're overstepping. And that you should stop it because it's not nice. Unless you specifically got her permission.

[glad arch]

Theres ways to increase their AC while still keeping their chosen playstyle

[remote wadi]

I'll just drop the topic about the Paladin, though. Don't mean to be rude, just she felt like she could use some advice because she sounds super worried about lycanthropy

[undone rain]

Eh figured ill go simple

[glass granite]

I can respect it

[undone rain]

Cant go wrong with old firebolt lol

[glass granite]

Unless they have fire resistance, but that’s what ray of frost is for

[remote wadi]

Oh, definitely. But they either require a lot of gold or a concentration spell. Both are valuable

[undone rain]

Exactly

Altough my bard does have a few firespells lol

[idle oar]

Let's nudge the character build discussions to the better #character-discussion channel please

[glad arch]

Can always drop it as loot or quest reward

[remote wadi]

Not the DM for this campaign. And we are running CoS

So special stuff like that will be scarce

[idle oar]

#character-discussion is ready and waiting for your character build ideas and thoughts

[remote wadi]

Oh. I moved to discussing general ideas

Like, it totally is possible to boost AC without a shield, but it requires things like concentration via shield of faith or means dumping a lot of gold (splint is a bit expensive, and plate armor might as well be out of the question)

[glass granite]

Ah, another session delayed cuz scheduling. I gotta wait even longer now.

Ah yes 2014 has restrictions on healing undead don’t they?

[glad arch]

Need a strong barbarian and you dont have one, john the wizard just died. John the barbarian happens to walk in

[remote wadi]

Healing spells will not work against constructs and undead

[severe rampart]

or you know... coordinate with the group so that you don't have to rely on one person to die to bring another character in

[undone rain]

I used to be an adventurer like you, then i took an arrow in the knee

[glass granite]

Not all I believe, but the common ones yes

[glass granite]

(In 2014)

[remote wadi]

But hey. Now I can actually be more grateful about the frequent short and long rests /hj

[glass granite]

Gotta love not dying

Just stay back and try not to get hit, that’s my best advice

[remote wadi]

Easy for me, I got that covered. For Paladin? Not so much...

[glass granite]

Better start killing things before your paladin gets overwhelmed!

[feral fulcrum]

Laughs in Undead Tome Warlock with Death Ward "Good luck, I'm behind 3 Anti-death effects."

[idle oar]

Again #character-discussion is -> that a way

[cosmic roost]

https://media-waterdeep.cursecdn.com/attachments/0/828/c2-16.png

[idle oar]

No more character build discussions here for now - we have channels for a reason, please use the most appropriate channel for a topic of discussion. Thanks!

See#channel-guide to find the best channel for a topic.

[feral fulcrum]

It's a shame that Modrons are not nearly as cute as that image. They are....unreasonably disgusting in their more realistic art.

[severe rampart]

Oh it can't be that bad- Sweet Mother of Pearl

I wish to unsee what I've seen

[idle oar]

Time to homebrew a modron + plasmoid monster... for my player characters to fear

At least it isn't the speyeder...