dnd-discussion

[spring light]

oh just the metamagic? i thought it was a class swap
whoopsie!

...i mean still talking to your dm and asking to swap things is still valid >_>

[clear trellis]

man i'm having a real hard time picking what level 2 spell to get

[spring light]

1 for damage, 1 for utility

[clear trellis]

i'm choosing a singular spell

[spring light]

do you have damage covered by level 1 spells?

[clear trellis]

well for damage i have thunderwave (level 1) and then fire bolt (cantrip)

[spring light]

and utility options? crowd control options?

[clear trellis]

do you just want the list of my spells and cantrips?

[spring light]

not really, no

but cc and utility are great to have in the toolbag

[clear trellis]

message fire bolt spare the dying blade ward minor illusion

cure wounds healing word silvery barbs thunderwave

[spring light]

nothing really for cc in that bag

[clear trellis]

thunderwave

[undone rain]

Yk ive always liked being a bit of mix with martial and spellcasters, i think valor bard will fit me fine

[blissful ibex]

Web, Misty Step, Flaming Sphere, Scorching Ray, Shatter, and Suggestion are all at least decent

[clear trellis]

is aganazzar's scorcher good

[blissful ibex]

shatter is kinda meh though, but it's an aoe at second level so

[blissful ibex]

it's fine

flaming sphere stops moving when you bump someone
they really don't like printing good AoE/durration damage spells at 2nd level XD

[burnt valley]

What class?

[blissful ibex]

sorcerer IIRC

[burnt valley]

Oh

[clear trellis]

sorcerer divine soul 2014 rules

[clear trellis]

so should i go for flaming sphere?

[blissful ibex]

Scorcher or sphere, sphere is nice because it gives you something to do with your bonus action, and has at least a small AoE on it

[clear trellis]

yeah i guess i'll go for that then, thank you!

[burnt valley]

Web, Phantasmal Force or Suggestion

Is this 2024 too btw?

[blissful ibex]

true ,Phantasmal Force can be pretty nice

[clear trellis]

2014 rules

[blissful ibex]

the one time so far my GOOlock has cast it, it ate a legendary resistance

[burnt valley]

Nvm Suggestion then

[clear trellis]

yeah but my only damage spells are thunderwave and firebolt

[blissful ibex]

aah, 14, you gotta specify that

[clear trellis]

i did, twice

[blissful ibex]

I didnt see q_q

[clear trellis]

so still go for flaming sphere?

[blissful ibex]

yeah, phantasmal force is bad in 2014 sadly, but flaming sphere didn't change all that much

[unreal garnet]

hey ppl

[spring light]

hi

[undone rain]

Oh my god i cant stop thinking of my tortle bard

Why do i love him so much

[wanton sorrel]

yo

[wanton sorrel]

probably because you build them good?

[severe rampart]

They're about to meet their fate

[shell crown]

@clear trellis Eyyyy 😄

[undone rain]

Nah hes not used yet

No depression for meeee

[spring light]

you have a table to play the tortle?

[undone rain]

Yep

Dont worry about allat i got it figured out

[woven flint]

I'm playimg a Tortle Knowledge Cleric in Dragon Heist

Our Orc Monk and Tabaxi Barbarian don't know how to read
He's offered to teach them but they won't let him lol
So
3 of our 5 party members are literate.. which isn't bad, but it's a bit silly

[timber turtle]

Is taking levels in any caster classes ever good as a barbarian?

[main maple]

Hello 👋

[woven flint]

Not really
Just take a magic initiate feat if you wanna do a bit of magic
But, you know, Rage is actively Antimagic

[timber turtle]

So no wild magic barbarian and will magic sorcerer in the same character?

[woven flint]

Probably not, I'd just go full either unless you really want to juggle Magic and Rage

It's definitely not something I'd suggest.

[still plover]

If you don't pick fighting spells, you're golden. Folk overestimate how long barbarians actually spend enraged. A bit to give you some utility can be great fun.

[hot marlin]

You can, but it's just not very good. You can't rage and cast. So rather than being a barbarian and a sorcerer, you are a barbarian during some turns, and a sorcerer during other turns.

Both of them being weaker than they would be if you were single classed

[woven flint]

I personally don't like Multiclassing
Not because it's weaker, but because I'm a solo-classer all the way lol

[blissful ibex]

I'm the opposite, single classes are boring c:

[woven flint]

I might do a Druid or Fighter dip for my ranger at some point, though
Just because we're going to level 20 and I think their capstone sucks

[umbral girder]

I say 1 level of Druid

Because spell level and adding Wis mod to 2 more skills

[woven flint]

Gets you a 6th level spell slot, iirc?

[umbral girder]

idk

[woven flint]

Though, I wouldn't mind an Extra Fighting style either

Dueling would be nice since I'm Either using a Longbow or a Scimitar

I might do the dip after level 5 if he survives that long just to get It out of the way

[umbral girder]

2 levels of Fighter gets you nice things.

Action surge, tactical mind, a fighting style

and of course 2nd wind.

[woven flint]

I might do Druid because his wife is a Druid

[tropic plank]

I once tried to use Vecna as a bbeg and only one of my players recognised who he was
It was hilarious to hear him freak out

[umbral girder]

The Whispered One himself.

Some people know of the Maimed King, but nice seeing Jack Vance appear in games.

[worn lagoon]

dnd group i dmed exploded before today's session

[naive cedar]

I only like multiclassing if I can’t get the character idea from just one subclass

[feral fulcrum]

Giblets everywhere. Quite the mess.

[amber echo]

Guys

i can use this class Fighter: Echo Knight in a D&D 5e 2024? or only in 2014?

[harsh hinge]

Anything from 2014 D&D that wasn't republished in 2024, like Echo Knight, can be used in a 2024 game. But ultimately, you'll need to check with your table to be sure!

[reef tundra]

You might also need to rework a few things to work with 2024 rules, but you rarely need to do so

[feral fulcrum]

Generally only an issue with things that get their subclasses before level 3

[reef tundra]

Yeah

[crimson gulch]

You can write homebrew from scratch on a napkin and it will work with dnd, officaly published options all work fine togeather

[stoic haven]

How do y'all like narrowing subclasses? Whitelisting or Blacklisting

[crimson gulch]

Book by book greenlights, my current slew of games has phb plus xanathars tashas and the new forgotten realmsbooks greenlit

[umbral girder]

Silly idea, Skeletons should resist piercing damage due to lack of insides.

[umbral girder]

Ever since read Daggerheart I've decided I'm not blocking any content. Instead I go for recommending content with a sentence explaining why it fits in the campaign.

[stoic haven]

Also, I heard that making shared characters (characters whose backstories are tied together) is usually more fun and engaging by some, anyone have any experience on this?

[feral fulcrum]

I haven't had any experience with it, but it could be pretty neat. It'd certainly help to bind a group together.

[harsh hinge]

I love doing that. You (that is, your PC) can feel at ease from jump rather than needing to build trust or develop affection for your party. And you get to build a history together during the actual quest, even if it's just fluff.

[jovial shadow]

Hm. I've never heard of that and pretty sure I wouldn't want my background shared with another PC

I'm not big on backgrounds anyway. The 2024 Background is all I care for.

[marble lion]

People talk about that in here every second day

[hot marlin]

It avoids the usual ache of "how did those people get together and why do they keep tolerating each other", it's generally a plus

[marble lion]

Any regular here has heard of making characters together

Its gospel

Havent done it myself yet but id like to

[vernal vale]

I need help writing a Shar themed manifesto to rally our small towns army
Or the peasants at least
Or like just bullet notes

[hot marlin]

Like the sort of thing the cult of Shar would write?

Manifestos are not their usual thing, secrecy tends to be the name of the game with them. It's a mystery cult

[marble lion]

"Embrace pain and starvation. Having nothing is good. Worship me instead. The totally right deity for you sucker"

[vernal vale]

Yeah but we run a lil town and my sharran character somehow became religious head

[hot marlin]

Go for stoic philosophy. Freedom from pain through control of the self.

Well, the aesthetics of stoic philosophy

[still plover]

"Embrace the pain of your loss and let it empower you. Strike with hate, strike with fear but strike true."

As previously, she's hard to make inspiring.

[vernal vale]

Yeah her emo ahh isn't very inspiring 😔

[hot marlin]

Essentially, it would be about freedom from desire. Expectations are the root of pain, stop expecting, train yourself to accept and find warmth in the darkness

Find your true self in the silence and in the dark.

Then you can go for the whole "our great mother in darkness" thing

The cult of Shar is inherently socially disruptive. Those are not people who want society outside of the church to function correctly.

[still plover]

Bit of Sith or Darksisters, perhaps?

[hot marlin]

So push a political agenda.

[hot marlin]

I have freed myself from Star Wars long ago thanks to the teachings of Shar.

She taught me that expecting Star Wars to be good was the root of my pain. I accepted that Star Wars was, is and always will be a bad franchise.

[still plover]

Watched the sequels, huh? /hj

[hot marlin]

Please, I've hated the franchise since the prequels

[still plover]

Anyway, anything useful so far?

[woven flint]

"If you die, you're bad at living, so don't die.. or whatever."

[woven flint]

It's okay, you can say Ass here

[marble lion]

"False hope sucks but go ahead... not like i care if you get hurt"

[vernal vale]

The fact that fits my character so hard too 😭

[woven flint]

Add a "Baka" at the end and you're solid for a Tsundere or whatever lol

[marble lion]

"Or whatever"

Not like you care either

[fossil hollow]

... what did i walk into

[stoic haven]

Hi Ti

[woven flint]

Suffering.

[tropic plank]

We’re all Shar-ing our inner pains

[fossil hollow]

roll me 3d6 Wendigo

[marble lion]

Oh hi i guess....

[undone rain]

Always gonna be an ilmater supporter, shar can suck it

[fossil hollow]

you too Haise, i need 3d6

[woven flint]

Nuh uh

[marble lion]

I got 3 4s

[tropic plank]

…13?

[marble lion]

12 total

[fossil hollow]

STR 13... DEX 12...

[tropic plank]

I’m weak my strength is like 9

What was the roll for anyway

[fossil hollow]

rerolling my new body's stats...

[umbral girder]

9 strength. You can lift 270lbs.

[jovial shadow]

Yeah I as going to say 9 isn't weak

[fossil hollow]

just below average

[naive cedar]

shar is literally the goddess of Ls

[jovial shadow]

The average person cannot not lift 270lbs

[fossil hollow]

the dnd average is 10

[naive cedar]

DND universe works on completely different physics

[jovial shadow]

It's still pounds

[lyric viper]

Maybe all D&D settings have slightly lower gravity >.>

[fossil hollow]

or people are just stronger in general.

Or the extremes are really high

[naive cedar]

the average person in DND can lift 300 pounds. i dont know what the average is irl but its probably half that

[narrow ferry]

DND is supposed to be a fun SIM like

[fossil hollow]

what>

[narrow ferry]

not a accurate physics simulation

[naive cedar]

i just view it the same way i view people doing magic tbh

[fossil hollow]

its not a physics sim, yeah

[naive cedar]

yeah its not garry's mod

[umbral girder]

Yeah I was quoting the lifting rules

Aka double your carrying capacity

[narrow ferry]

I use variant encumbrance often, it's rarely a problem

give players bags of holding of they really complain

[undone rain]

Would make sense if most dnd charaters got some muscle. Out adventuring all day and stuff

[agile hemlock]

Salutations

[naive cedar]

based on dnd rules i have a strength of like. 4

[fossil hollow]

seeing how anyone who is a STR build generally gets 16 STR, yeah

[undone rain]

Those fellas carry 40 bricks in their pockets daily i swear

[fossil hollow]

i mean. Full heavy equipment

Armor, weapons, backpacks, loot

[worn lagoon]

beats my 2. and I have been carrying heavy things all day, you'd think that'd earn an ASI

[naive cedar]

plate armour is VERY heavy. i can easily see someone getting tons of muscle purely from walking around in it all day

[meager fractal]

Full plate armor was surprisingly agile, far from the restrictive, heavy, and clunky myth often depicted in movies. A well-made 15th-century suit was a masterpiece of articulation, designed to allow the wearer to run, jump, climb, and perform acrobatics like cartwheels and somersaults

[naive cedar]

i dont really do lifting exercises so i dont actually know my maximum tbh

[lyric viper]

Ah but weight distributed across the body is a bit different to trying to carry it on certain points.

[naive cedar]

what is your source for that? not saying you're wrong but everything ive read about plate armour says its very heavy

[lyric viper]

Probably the most tiring part of field plate would be the grieves and sabatons. Your lower legs are designed to uphold weight rather than drag it up.

[undone rain]

Average full plate armor with padding is like 25-30 kg

Not to sound like some big nerd, just sayin

[naive cedar]

yeah but walking around carrying 30 kg all day is different from lifting 30 kg temporarily

but i could be wrong

[livid valve]

Hows everyone doing?

[undone rain]

Eh no idea your still training with it for sure

[naive cedar]

yeah and keep in mind that your clothes probably dont even weigh 1 kg

[fossil hollow]

dnd plate armor is 65 lbs

[undone rain]

I know that my reenactment uniform makes me an extra 10 kg

[jovial shadow]

Eh.I was hoping there was a bot that converted kg to lbs and back

[undone rain]

But thats 18th century

[narrow ferry]

NERD! /jks

[lyric viper]

Also keep in mind quite a few people carry extra body weight close to that. It can certainly tire you out more overall, but it's different when disperesed and carried properly rather than concentrated.

[valid geyser]

From what I know since plate armor is carried by the entire body, it doesn’t feel as heavy as something like a modern military kit which weighs about the same since there’s a lot of weight carried by the torso
That being said d&d characters usually have big backpacks

[livid valve]

This is where I would jokingly say "have you ever wore plate armor"

[narrow ferry]

guud

[undone rain]

Lol like homer simpson, NEEEEEERD

[fossil hollow]

i only lift lumber unfortunately, not armor

[livid valve]

You probably read all the lord of the ring books

[naive cedar]

Yeah, I'm also thining mainly of like, 17th century plate armour. It probably differed depending on the century and the country

[undone rain]

I wish

[naive cedar]

Also we're all nerds here and i have academically studied Medieval literature so im all for nerding out

[narrow ferry]

real geeks skip the hobbit

[undone rain]

Ayyyy

[naive cedar]

real geeks know that the hobbit is the best one

[meager fractal]

I watch a lot of Dequitem on youtube and got a lot of ren faires and such. I know it's not a solid source lol but people who immerse themselves

[jovial shadow]

We?

[undone rain]

Hobbit>lotr sorry not sorry

[narrow ferry]

I like grittier fantasy, even though lotr has plot armour like no bodies business

[naive cedar]

Yeah, I was mainly thinking of my Gothic literature professor talking about plate armour and how heavy and cumbersome it was. That being said, she was specifically talking about a book set in the 16th century? so thats a bit different

[narrow ferry]

hobits good for a children's book though

[undone rain]

Bilbo is just too annoying of a character

[naive cedar]

LOTR has its issues but its still an iconic series

[undone rain]

Wait no wrong one

[fossil hollow]

you mean frodo?

[visual lintel]

I have a question

[naive cedar]

i prefer the hobbit though because its simpler and more like a fun adventure

[jovial shadow]

Not a nerd, so there is no "we're"

[undone rain]

Yes frodo, im tired sorry

[tropic plank]

Both are quite clunky to get through

[naive cedar]

idk i find the hobbit very easy to read

[meager fractal]

i like the old conan stories tbh

[visual lintel]

I have a question involving morals

[undone rain]

Frodo is annoying, no offense to his actor

[narrow ferry]

yeah Bilbo is way better

lotr would have been better if there took 4 hobbits for redundancy

[naive cedar]

idk i like frodo and sam a lot

[narrow ferry]

and they died a lot

[tropic plank]

Alignment is meant to solve those mostly

[naive cedar]

sam is the real hero of lotr

[visual lintel]

That’s the problem

[narrow ferry]

they are likable, sure, but that doesn't mean they should both likely live 🥲

[naive cedar]

in general though i find it obnoxious when people dismiss criticisms of trends in the fantasy genre with "bUt tOlkEIn dId It"

[undone rain]

Literally carried frodo

[naive cedar]

Sam also is the one who actually destroyed the ring if i remember correctly

[undone rain]

I think so? Been a while since i saw the movies

[lyric viper]

Might be getting a wee bit off topic folk

[narrow ferry]

would have been cool if Sam tried to save Frodo from the spider, the others dying long ago. and Sam fails Frodo dies and tells Sam that he is just as capable of any other at destroying the ring

[quasi monolith]

I’m glad people noticed. I just rewatched in theaters and without Sam, Frodo would’ve failed

[still plover]

What's the actual question?

[narrow ferry]

actually it's gollum

[sleek cloud]

Hello all

[visual lintel]

I created a BBG who they set up was that they were a barbarian who whenever they raged they had split personality disorder, and depending on what side of a coin landed, they would their alignment would shift the problem is my players think that’s unfair because it basically allows me to do something that wouldn’t be necessarily even character for the BBG when they are raging and the entire problem with that is that he’s chaotic neutral but what I would like to do is kill the NPC and throw the cleric of diamond and have my BBEG say “again” and I don’t want to do it if it would be too out of character for my BBG, but if you think I could do it when he’s raging then that would be really helpful to know should I do it? Should I not and should I just tell my players to suck it up and deal with it

[meager fractal]

hi

[narrow ferry]

hai

[still plover]

Actually actually it's Sauron, but that's getting deeper in than this channel should.

[naive cedar]

I’ll discuss this with you further in off topic if you’d like

[meager fractal]

everyone played their key parts in the victory over evil

[narrow ferry]

sure

[naive cedar]

Okay I’m moving to off topic

[tropic plank]

Is it ‘out of character’ if it’s literally your own character

[still plover]

What's the flavour of this character's rage? Are they calculating, merciless, sadistic or a simple berserker?

[agile hemlock]

Barbarians are pretty cool

[visual lintel]

Sadistic

[agile hemlock]

But I am frail and I made the mistake of going into mathematics so I’m more of a weezard

[visual lintel]

That’s what I’m trying to figure out

[still plover]

Do the players know this character has a mental issue?

[proper forum]

Guys I need your opinion on something

[undone rain]

Go on

[proper forum]

So I am a hexblade warlock

[tropic plank]

There’s the problem
-# kidding I love hexblade

[proper forum]

Me and the party were talking to a gnome who seemed kind at first but he tricked us and took our things and tied us up in his evil tower

[meager fractal]

and?

[proper forum]

Turns out he was actually doing evil experiments trying to resurrect a tarrasque, which he did resurrect and we fought

We are fighting the tarrasque and the gnome

And the party monk tells me not to kill the gnome

[meager fractal]

A gnome in my wm server got eaten by a giant frog in today's session. I tried to save him but alas my character isn't a good swimmer

[proper forum]

But my character is a headstrong noble Drow who is not only vain but also prejudiced against everyone who isn't a drow. So yeah I killed the gnome.

Thing is I just really wanted to use my specter of the blade feature as it was my first time using it

[tropic plank]

So it’s a ‘my character would do it’ moment?
Is the monk telling you not to do this for a practical reason or do they have some kind of pacifism oath?

[proper forum]

He doesn't like killing people because he is good. He also told me not to kill him because he could help shut the mechanism down.

[tropic plank]

So it’s half and half
Well, the monk disliking murder only matters if the narrative is fully the monks in that moment, and should not dictate your actions
The practical purpose of stopping a larger fight is however a reason to spare someone, especially if no one else in the party wants to engage in that battle

[proper forum]

The monk never kills

[still plover]

Anyway, what it seems like is this character is being presented in an inconsistent way to the players. They don't know why he's doing what he does, they can't follow his behaviour or motivations. Ideally you set this up beforehand, do some foreshadowing, but you might get away with a bit of hammy dialogue in the moment.

Also (just IMO) this guy sounds a bit like the Batman villain Two-Face.

[cunning rover]

Hello folks

[proper forum]

The tarrasque was already resurrected

It was shot with a large beam and came to life Frankenstein style

[tropic plank]

So it was purely the monk not wanting you to murder someone because their character dislikes killing?

[still plover]

This is a melee attack, right?

[proper forum]

I also turned him into a specter and he disliked that too

[marble lion]

I think the DM brutally failed to scout the player characters morals

[proper forum]

Yes

[marble lion]

Your character and his character cant work together from where im sitting in any game with an ounce of immersion

You are an evil racist necromancer and he is a pacifist nondrow

[tropic plank]

There’s nothing necessary wrong with characters having opposing morals as long as they can work together despite them, and have a more important common goal
It’s if the players are arguing morals that’s the issue

[marble lion]

Which here isnt the case

[still plover]

Dang.

When you would reduce a creature to 0 Hit Points with a melee attack, you can instead reduce the creature to 1 Hit Point and give it the Unconscious condition.

[undone rain]

Yeah like our sorcerer is evil and just wants money but we still work well

[proper forum]

My character is evil, VERY evil, and all the rest are good. Not only is she evil but a horrible person personality-wise. She is selfish, vain, and controlling.

[marble lion]

Either players lied to the DM about their morals or the DM dropped the ball

[fossil hollow]

makes me wonder how they ended up in the party

[tropic plank]

Yeah that’s definitely not a good idea

[marble lion]

DM should have just not let you make that char haha

Thats not gonna work

[still plover]

Maybe you can get a retcon on the deathblow, I dunno.

[signal plaza]

That sounds very bad for the party of citizens

[proper forum]

She's always been like that. I told the DM my character's alignment and backstory before we ever started and if me being evil was an issue he should've told me.

[marble lion]

Indeed

New DM?

[proper forum]

She is using them. She has a mission given to her by her patron and is taking advantage of the party.

[proper forum]

Yes I think

[marble lion]

Fresh DMs often underestimate the trouble moral alignment can bring, imagining it to be an awesome deep complex story

[tropic plank]

You also should have told the rest of the party? If I were playing a super evil bad person id tell the other players to see if we’re all super evil or if I should tone it down a lot

[marble lion]

Overestimating their own power over it

[vernal vale]

We need to name out city its in the desert and we are REALLY anti slave

[still plover]

Then this is between you (player) and the other people (also players) who want to play together.

[signal plaza]

No offense, but I hope your DM allows them fair opportunity to catch and defeat you. Heard lot of stories about dm showing favor and basically letting them TPK

[still plover]

Y'all need a Conversation about how you can all play together with this mix of characters.

[marble lion]

And if you want to

[proper forum]

Also both the monk and the cleric hate the specter of the blade thing I did. The cleric's goddess hates necromancy, and the monk later after the fight approached me and scolded me saying that I can't do whatever I want because we're a team and also necromancy is illegal. I didn't know it was.

[marble lion]

Do you need the rejection of slavery to be overtly put in the name? Any town should be against slavery so its not really relevant for naming

[tropic plank]

You absolutely can play an evil character in a party of good ones, you just need lots of communication and a very good reason for working together
So far you don’t seem to have either

[tropic plank]

Necromancy illegal?! How was I supposed to know desecrating the dead was a crime?

[signal plaza]

Anti-Slavehera

[tropic plank]

Freesand

[naive cedar]

“I’m evil but I’m willing to put that aside to work with this group because our goals are aligned” characters are fun

[marble lion]

Is it actually though

[tropic plank]

-# I was being sarcastic

[proper forum]

I think that the next thing my character would do is that she would try and explain her actions by lying about her patron and making her party pity her or at least understand her

[still plover]

Like, I wouldn't roll into a Deathwatch squad of a Black Templar and Blood Angel and say hey, it's me, ya loyalist Son of Horus and expect that to just work. We'd have to talk it out first!

[marble lion]

I think many fantasy settings are more open to necromancy than wed think is my point. I know you were sarcastic

[fossil hollow]

thats how you end up being a splat on the wall

[proper forum]

Alyssis (Greek for chain)

[tropic plank]

Oh, I see
With the vilification of things like Lich, vampire and undead, I’d assume most fantasy would see necromancy as eeevvviiilll

Also the original phrasing was a little off, sorry

[proper forum]

I mean it's still in character for my character because despite being in the surface she still operates by the laws of the underdark.

[marble lion]

Azura for the beautiful open blue sky of the desert
Also sky represents freedom

[proper forum]

Yeah I mean look at me I literally have a Morrowind profile picture

[still plover]

But you're hearing me, right? You have to hash this out as players, not characters.

[marble lion]

Yup

[tropic plank]

You have to consider what your character would do, and what will actually work for the game

[marble lion]

And its very possible the others dont want to be used and pied to by your character

Might have to make a new less problematic character

[vernal vale]

The party voted for Goontopia 💔😭

[marble lion]

Though that pacifist monk stuff will cause trouble for even goodaligned people i think

[tropic plank]

Why was that an option?!

[vernal vale]

Are we so deadass 😔🙏

[vernal vale]

BECAUSE WE ARE DEMOCRATIC

[marble lion]

Enjoy your circus show

[fossil hollow]

what the hell is going on

[vernal vale]

Yk not even mad this isn't a very serious campaign to begin with

[marble lion]

And here i was so proud of my name pitch

[proper forum]

So what you're saying is no one should ever play an evil character?

[signal plaza]

Explain to me one thing, cause I haven’t understood this since I started dnd.

Why do you want to be on the opposite side of your party? "Hey a group of heroes, imma be some edge lord who doesn’t fit in and make everyone else on edge and uncomfortable."

[marble lion]

No

[vernal vale]

It was a really good pitch 😭😭

It was the one I put in the poll

[marble lion]

Just that it needs to be discussed and okayed by the other players because dnd is usually cooperative

And that some players wont let you

[buoyant oar]

Loki Marvel is an evil character Loki in Loki. Is an evil character working with a neutral/good align party well.

[proper forum]

Well I guess I should have made it less obvious. I am supposed to be using them but I'm not exactly subtle about it.

[keen valve]

Evil is a subjective term. Even the craziest of evil bad wizards can find some way to justify casting BIG SHADOW EVIL DOME over an entire city.

[jovial shadow]

That's how Loki has always been, even in the myths

[still plover]

"The candlemakers will worship my name!"

[marble lion]

Imagine this from their perspective please
You are a player in a team
You are not told about being used by a selfish character who is your fellow player
Would you like finding out another player got to walk all over you for weeks?
It needs to be discussed out of character first

[tropic plank]

Hmmm, when is it appropriate to be evil?
When my allies are Grimskull the barbarian and clawgore the cleric of Tiamat
Or if I’m with leafheart the Druid and Harry the Just, a holy paladin?

[keen valve]

"It's not that bad, you just have to dig under the dome to leave the city now."

[marble lion]

Personally id feel humiliated and antagonised if someone secretly used my character for their characters hidden evil hostile goal

But if discussed, we are equals

[jovial shadow]

Evil is not subjective. It is very much obvious

[proper forum]

Wow... yeah I really am stupid

[old berry]

Tbf, intriguing plot twist.

[marble lion]

I can then choose to play the fool in character

[tropic plank]

For one player maybe, the rest likely all feel embarrassed and betrayed

[marble lion]

Plot twists are seldom good when thrown at you at the expense of equality

[proper forum]

I had designed that character a year ago and really wanted to play her

[old berry]

Fair.

[marble lion]

I dont sit at a dnd table to be trumped

[tropic plank]

Which is alright, but you can’t shove the same character into every single situation

[old berry]

Fair x2

[buoyant oar]

Consent of the whole table >>>>>>>>>>>> Any one PC concept ever.

[marble lion]

But really this all wouldnt be a problem if the table agreed to it

Or if youve played together enough to be sure they wont mind

[old berry]

-# ^

[marble lion]

The DM dropped the ball by not checking with the party or saying no

[tropic plank]

I absolutely love playing a paladin, but if I were playing with a supremely evil group, I’d not be saying things like ‘we must help the populous!’ Or ‘foul undead must be smote!’

[marble lion]

Id bring a different character

[proper forum]

Here's the thing: we are playing remotely. We didn't create our characters together, each one discussed it with the DM separately. We had no knowledge of eachother's characters before the first session.

[tropic plank]

Yeah that’s a mistake on the DMs part

[signal plaza]

Even as a Hexblade main I usually use some redemption arc where im trying to help ppl instead of being chaotic

[harsh hinge]

Oof. Group character creation for the win!

[marble lion]

You do now so you can fix it now

[still plover]

"Foul undead must be smote!" Catches the burning gazes of his team... "...If they're not under our command."

[proven mountain]

Yea, a session 0 will help even if it's during the campaign

[proper forum]

Also this is his first ever game as DM

[marble lion]

Poor guy, ive been there kinda

[tropic plank]

That’s part of why I love Paladin! You have a large number of ‘Good’ options, and things like Crown and Oathbreaker for evil scenarios

[worn lagoon]

Conquest my goat

[buoyant oar]

Which is understandable. The Concept of Session Zero made it into a First party official core book for the first time last year.

[minor cargo]

But it's also never too late to have another one! Call it Session 4.5 or whatever haha.

[buoyant oar]

Oh God it was 2 years ago

[marble lion]

Eh

[old berry]

-# Beach episode.

[signal plaza]

-# yeah quit reminding the years are passing and im turning grey

[still plover]

"Heck of a year, huh?"
"But Lord Kas, it is February."

[marble lion]

Demiplane with a beach and youre all in bikinis and discuss this over juice

[tropic plank]

Sanguinia, I’d probably revisit your backstory and see if you can reach a more morally neutral if not morally good conclusion

[tropic plank]

Even the Plasmoid?

[still plover]

Especially the plasmoid.

[fossil hollow]

wait, 2024 was two years ago?!

[proper forum]

He's doing really good considering this is his first ever time. He's a really good lore writer and I can tell that. But I'm guessing there's many things he doesn't know. Oh yeah he also uses AI images for everything.

[fossil hollow]

Oh God

[tropic plank]

Oof

[marble lion]

The plasmoid just has the bikini floating inside the body loosely

[old berry]

-# Lol.

[glass granite]

We’re a year close to 2050 than 2000

[fossil hollow]

oh god

Ages rapidly

[tropic plank]

Lmao imagine remembering the year 2000

[wispy wing]

Ohhh that hurts

[signal plaza]

-# im now suffering post traumatic old man syndrome

[marble lion]

Just remember
Grey hair is cool

[signal plaza]

Until you see it on yourself

[keen kestrel]

So glad I don’t have grey hair yet, I don’t wanna be cool

[fossil hollow]

I-I can be a Trailblazer? Or a Proxy?

[marble lion]

Bet, ill prove you wrong

Ill be fine with grey hair definitely

[signal plaza]

Glad for ya lol

[naive cedar]

ew

[still plover]

Eh. Back on topic, what are signs of aging for dragonborn?

[old berry]

-# *Can be

[buoyant oar]

A DM used AI generated Images? I have lost another 34 seconds of my life.

[wispy wing]

Grey scales?

[fossil hollow]

flaking

[signal plaza]

Droopy eyes and slowed speech with a cool long mustash

[naive cedar]

Bruh I feel like every day I come in here and someone is complaining about their DM using AI images.

[worn lagoon]

I'm sort of glad my dnd party exploded today because I used this time to build a table from scratch and now I have a nice table

[marble lion]

It always is, the rest of you may not be though. Hairline, loose skin, spots, health issues, joints etc
But grey hair? Cool

[tropic plank]

They begin seeking dark places and hoarding shiny objects

Shoulder pain can also be common

[old berry]

-# 😭

[proper forum]

Also here's another related thing: as a refresher, my character is an evil hexblade warlock with an evil lich as her patron. So far I haven't told the other characters that I'm a warlock or who my patron is, to not break their trust. But then, my patron started showing himself in the dreams of the other characters trying to recruit them... despite him being a drow with very traditional values like my character. Is he stupid?

[marble lion]

But wouldnt you have a table anyway even while playing?

[worn lagoon]

Ai images aren't as bad as making AI write the entire campaign. Though both are bad.

[naive cedar]

BRB making my bg3 characters in dolldivine (it’s better than AI)

[buoyant oar]

For my West Marches I turned to my co-dms as the lead and said. "If you do this knowingly, more than one time you are gone."

[tropic plank]

What’s that?

[worn lagoon]

Yes, but I poured 7 hours into this table and now I have a much better table to play DnD on

[narrow ferry]

like in avatar?!

[proper forum]

Hoo boy you don't even know. He generated AI images of all our characters without asking and uses them as our tokens.

[naive cedar]

Bruh.

[narrow ferry]

one of the best episodes

[tropic plank]

I’m beginning to think your dm might be the problem

[marble lion]

Mai my girl

[tropic plank]

You really should’ve led with this Sanguinia

[buoyant oar]

I give credence to those who are ignorant. But there are so many better options for NPCs. I use DMHeroes.com

[proper forum]

That's me. I change my profile picture a lot. Yeah I'm indecisive.

[narrow ferry]

I liked all their backstories 🥹

[naive cedar]

Website for paper doll programs (you can customise a virtual paper doll)

[signal plaza]

To be fair, if it’s his first game. Hes people pleasing letting yall go crazy and using AI. I say yall should talk to the dm instead of complaining. Communication is key both ways.

[tropic plank]

Oooooh

[proper forum]

Well it's his first time

[naive cedar]

You’re definitely not the only person who does (not calling anyone out: I totally feel for all of you)

[signal plaza]

Why out him then defend him next sentence? Just help the guy.

[buoyant oar]

The first time is the prime time to be firm

[tropic plank]

Thousands of others had their first times as a dm and didn’t resort to ai, no?

[naive cedar]

Yeah he needs to be told that this isn’t acceptable

[marble lion]

Changing picture a lot isnt something you need to feel for
Where is the harm

[naive cedar]

I meant the AI bit

[proper forum]

I did. Not only does he disagree with me, the whole party does. They all love AI. They think that it's the future and they said I'm resisting progress.

[delicate owl]

Ah yes, the AI morals and witch hunt discussion in #dnd-discussion again.

[old berry]

-# Ew-

[naive cedar]

no offense but thats like the biggest red flag going imo

[proper forum]

No I meant the bad writing, the AI is entirely on him

[signal plaza]

If they all enjoy it and you’re the only one with an issue then maybe it just isn’t the right table for you

[proper forum]

But they've been my friends for years now

[tropic plank]

DnD is littered with creatives, you can’t go a day without this popping up

[signal plaza]

To quote a famous YouTuber, “no DnD is better than bad DnD”

[minor cargo]

It's not a witch hunt for players to say they don't want it in their games.

Yeah, if you're pro AI, maybe it sounds anti- to you, but it's very specifically not about you and your preferences. It's about the people the conversation is directly about.

[naive cedar]

I would love for AI art to disappear and never have to talk about it again tbh

[tropic plank]

Friendship doesn’t immediately equate to a good table relationship

[marble lion]

Friends dont have to play dnd together

Or stay friends, but thats just a sidenote

[buoyant oar]

Irrelevant.

Better to turn Good DnD Players into Good Friends, than turn Good Friends into Good DnD Players.

[old berry]

-# I want to be in another party :(

-# I miss it :(

[proper forum]

I'm sorry if this sounds stupid to you but I'm not going to quit an otherwise good D&D campaign with people who are my friends because the DM uses AI. My values are strong, but not strong enough to start a fight with my DM and potentially leave the whole campaign like I'm protesting.

[signal plaza]

then you’re agreeing to the table rules. Whats the issue

[tropic plank]

I wasn’t advising you to do anything, just making sure you were aware

[proper forum]

Yeah I'm just telling yall what my DM does because I disagree with it but that's as far I'm going to take it really

[buoyant oar]

Hey that is your right.

The maxim of a Good DnD table is silence is consent. If a DM or other players wish to construe what silence should mean, they must infer that everything is alright. Not that it is a problem.

[tropic plank]

But it does seem to me that your characters don’t mesh well, that your dm does things against your consent, and has policy you disagree with
All are generally considered big issues on their own, let alone put in one campaign

[buoyant oar]

Yea a mismatach on that many levels would lead to me going to the player and gracefully saying it is not working out.

[signal plaza]

Sounds like a horror story in the making imo

[tropic plank]

I’d rather peacefully bow out than have the game go horrible and ruin the friendship anyway

[signal plaza]

If they leave a friendship over dnd they wasn’t a good friend anyways

[proper forum]

Abd then there's this (the way my patron acts which the DM is controlling)

[tropic plank]

You don’t need to explain why you don’t want to play, just say it wasn’t for you and avoid the conflict if you’re concerned
I’m not your keeper, I’m just an internet fellow who likes the same game as you advising you on the situation

[proper forum]

So your advice is for me to quit the game?

[buoyant oar]

I have become desensitized to most horror stories.

After reading a few where the OP acknowledges the issues could have been solved ambically if they had just spoken up about their discomfort earlier but didn't because they were nervous.

Ignoring Confrontation has never and will never make the problem go away.

[tropic plank]

There do seem to be an overwhelming number of issues piling up

[undone rain]

For one day could i not hear about ai art man

[proper forum]

FYI my previous campaign was also a horror story and I think it was entirely my fault I don't want this knd to turn that way too

[buoyant oar]

If I was the player in this scenario. I would have left.

[tropic plank]

The best way to survive a haunted house is to turn around and leave before you even get in

[proper forum]

Yeah, it's my fault. I shouldn't have played such a blatantly evil character, and even if I did I should have been less obvious about it.

[buoyant oar]

Blame is rarely a soloable endeavour in DnD

[signal plaza]

Suggestion, maybe give him a token with your character and ask for it to be switched? Then ask for redemption arc where you cross your patron or something. Remaining evil in a good aligned party you’re going to end up sour, or one of them will.

If you’re not willing to leave, then that’s probably your best option

[minor cargo]

Blame aside (personally I don't think assigning blame is all that helpful in a situation like this), it sounds like you get some reasonable feedback on how things are going from outsiders looking in.

I'm personally of the mind that this can be "fixed" - by which I mean, your group can talk about it and maybe even do soft or hard resets where needed.

Did this help? Or do you still have some things you wanted to talk about in more detail?

[proper forum]

Oh well... I guess D&D isn't for me. At all.

[signal plaza]

Literally none of us said that

Sounds like an inability to confront and offer compromise

[proper forum]

There's a lot of details I could offer but I don't know what would be considered useful

[proper forum]

Well my character would never do that. But I would.

[minor cargo]

I think if you feel confident in your next steps, you probably gave all of the details you needed to. ✌️

If you don't feel confident, you can totally get more into the weeds of it all. Maybe just kind of restate the issue you're looking for help with?

[signal plaza]

@minor cargo can I dm you for some advice?

[minor cargo]

Generally I prefer to keep things out in the open, but if it's sensitive, yeah, go for it! ✌️

[proper forum]

I'm confused. At this point I don't even know what the problem is. Is my character's existence the problem? Is her very straightforward nature the problem? I am willing to discuss the issues with rest of the party but to be honest I don't want my character to become good. Then it wouldn't be her anymore. I like playing a cartoonishly evil character.

Should I explain why she is evil?

[signal plaza]

Nah, not sensitive just trying to have reference for later.

For dungeon mastering is there any good vtt/ cs for mobile ? Mostly everything im finding is for pc

[minor cargo]

Maybe the problem to focus on is to figure out the root of it all? Talk to your group openly and honestly - and with as much empathy as you can muster! - and see if y'all can't work on making the experience as enjoyable as possible for each other. ✌️

[harsh hinge]

I think Owlbear Rodeo works for mobile. I don't think any VTT is optimized for mobile, though, so far as I'm aware.

[hushed mason]

" Is her very straightforward nature the problem" --> this is probably the problem. If your character lacks social skills, the other characters aren't going to get along with them very well.

I wish I'd seen the beginning of this conversation.

[proper forum]

Thank you. I was going to do that anyway based on what everyone has said.

[signal plaza]

I haven’t gotten hip to owlbear, I’ll have to check them out! Tysm

[proper forum]

Thanks guys. I will talk about it with the rest of the group.

[minor cargo]

For mobile, in my experience, most don't do well on mobile. To iamrazorwing's point, I've also heard Owlbear Rodeo is okay on mobile but there might be some snags.

Roll20 specifically works pretty poorly on mobile phones/tablets.

For our one mobile player, we've had to go the route of everyone on a laptop/PC on the VTT (Roll20) and sending screenshots every so often. Workable, but not ideal.

[proper forum]

She does have social skills, she is just vain and selfish and isn't trying to hide it... yeah that's the problem. But we've already played several sessions and it would be weird for her personality to suddenly change.

[glass granite]

Is she willing to cooperate with the party?

[hushed mason]

Is the rest of the party evil? Cause if not, that's the core problem.

[glass granite]

This^

[hushed mason]

It's challenging to do evil with other alignments.

[signal plaza]

oof yeah I tried roll20 app and it was awful. I guess owlbear it is!

[proper forum]

Yes. To be fair, the mistake that started it all was caused by me really wanting to use one of my abilities which made me disagree with the monk.

[glass granite]

She doesn’t seem a good fit for the table from how I see it. Plus remember: “that’s what my character would do” is as good as you can add to the game.

[proper forum]

They aren't. And there was no session 0 so none of us knew what each player's alignment was before the game properly started.

[hushed mason]

That's on the DM.

[glass granite]

Yeah DM mistake there

They new? It’s a very common mistake with a new DM

[proper forum]

It's his first time

[glass granite]

Checks out

[high carbon]

How do I improve as a player? I'm not very good.

[hushed mason]

Read the rules.

[glass granite]

What do you feel like you struggle with?

You can know all the rules and still struggle being a player

[high carbon]

Uh.

Just never been in a campaign that lasts. I don't feel very good as a DM or a player.

[glass granite]

Hm…

My best guess from the heavily limited perspective i have is communication or immersion

[marble lion]

I must also point out though that a player should never bring an evil, or pacifist character to a game if there was no checking if its okay with other players

Its not only on the DM

[glass granite]

That is true. The responsibility is two way

[hushed mason]

I have an evil character in my game, and the party didn't even know until a few weeks ago. We've been playing for a year.

[marble lion]

Bringing any character that may cause conflict gives you the responsibility to check

[hushed mason]

As long as the character continues to behave in a manner that they can tolerate, there won't be a problem.

[marble lion]

Irresponsible but lucky that it worked

Well if you dont act evil thats different

[high carbon]

Well out of session communication can be a problem. I try and be available and communicative though.

I can pinpoint what went wrong In particular sessions but I'm unsure of why things tend to go wrong.

[hushed mason]

I made it clear that the group was to be "heroic", so it was on the evil character / player to find a way to "get along" with the heroic objectives. I think the character is "evil" in the sense that they have no empathy or desire to help others.

But they're motivated to participte in the group becuase ... treasure!

[marble lion]

Could still lead to trouble

But its definitely better than acting evil

[hushed mason]

It might. We're about to finish our third adventure module.

[marble lion]

Yeah your fellow players are chill with it

[hushed mason]

I suspect that the character is evil so that they can take the Assassin PRC (3.5).

[marble lion]

Thats the important thing
If you dont know they will be though, thats still irresponsible

But its a game, stuff happens

Noones getting flogged for taking a risk in a game

[blissful ibex]

And that's how you generally want to play an evil character in a good campaign
You may not agree with the rest of the party, but your goals allign for the most part, so you tag along to further your own ends

[hushed mason]

The evil charcter also despises undead, so that helps.

Plenty of common ground with the half-celestial NPC there. 🙂

[glossy otter]

We talking about evil characters in good campaigns?

[hushed mason]

Yes, we are.

[proper forum]

Yeah

[glossy otter]

The one thing I've learned from it all is keep the party safe from your stuff. Otherwise be as morally abhorrent as you desire

[marble lion]

I made an evilish char once who saw the people as his subjects so he helped because he felt responsible for them

[buoyant oar]

As a player:

• Celebrate everyone else's wins. We all want our PC to be a little bit of the star of their story. This is true for all players. So when another PC does something Cool, Be enthusiastic about it.

• Know how your character works.

• Take Notes of Proper Nouns your DM gives out, People, places, things, etc.

• Pay Attention to the best of your ability.

• Show appreciation to the DM

• Make a character that fits the narrative being sold to you. Many players have dozens of alts and premades. Toss those out and make a bespoke character for each campaign.

Do just these things and you will become your DM's favorite player.

[blissful ibex]

my tuesday game burnt and I'm pretty sure my thursday game is bruning as well q_q
one of the ones on sunday are on a short hiatus too
down to 2 sunday games and 1 monday game

[hushed mason]

I can't even find a game. 3.5 woes.

[proper forum]

My character is isn't always vain and evil. She's actually very caring and supportive to other drows. Thing is, most people in this setting aren't driws.

[hushed mason]

Yeah, you're DM messed up letting that character into the party.

[worn lagoon]

I think most of the time a party doesn't have to get along in-character so long as the DM does a good job establishing why they have to keep this uneasy alliance going

[glossy otter]

Reminds me of a half elf I had who was racist to all other elves. Somehow he ended up essentially sacrificing himself to save one

[worn lagoon]

My half-dragon was very mean to the dragonborn that called him scalefriend, but is warming up to him. This process did not ruin the party despite his awful remarks.

[proper forum]

I don't know what the DM has jn mind but I'm guessing they'll eventually have to fight her when she achieves her goal and frees her master

[blissful ibex]

I go the route of having a premade but one with a very easy to fit into setting backstory (except her species makes that very difficult in a lot of cases q_q) That has plenty of potential hooks and a possible little mini adventure baked in around early tier 3 play if the DM wants to pull on that particular thread c:

[high carbon]

Yeah makes sense. I'm just going to try being attentive. See where I can help.

[hushed mason]

Oh, I have an elf-supremist character. She despises all other races. But.. she's not stupid enough to say so. She just has an air of disdain.

And she's not evil, so that helps.

[green flower]

Any resource suggestions (videos/classes/websites) I want to get serious about becoming a DM? I have been playing for a little less than a year.

[blissful ibex]

see, now that's character growth XD

[jaunty wyvern]

Does anyone know if theres ever been any officially supported items that interact with Paladin’s Lay on Hands? Similar to Amulet of the Devout or something

[worn lagoon]

That's also technically character assassination at the same time

[marble lion]

She is evil

[glossy otter]

The joke was it wasn't even intentional. He just happened to die the same night he rescued one

[proper forum]

I'm just a stupid player 😭😭😭 no other explanation

[glossy otter]

He just wanted to interrogate the prisoner when they had to escape a mansion full of orcs that was on fire

[blissful ibex]

might want to ttry in #dm-discussion

[still plover]

Sly Flourish, Ginny D, How To Be A Great DM, Five Room Dungeon.

[hushed mason]

Not in a kicking puppies kind of way. I have her down as TN. It works with the evil party she's in.

[prime basin]

The elf side of him kicked in as his other half watched on in horror

[marble lion]

Despising every sentient being not of your own race is one of the most evil things i can imagine, but no she doesnt kick puppies

[hushed mason]

It's more a superiority thing than hate. Like a Vulcan.

But yes, it is pretty evil.

[harsh hinge]

Matt Colville's "Running the Game" YouTube Series, the Alexandrian (and his So You Want to Be a Game Master? book), the Angry GM, Sly Flourish's blog/books, and Johnn Four's Roleplaying Tips. That should be plenty.

[marble lion]

From my exposure to star trek, i can say without a doubt that vulcans do not despise other kin just for not being them

[hushed mason]

Vulcans are 100% sure of their superiority. It's wonderfully displayed in the baseball episode of DS9.

[livid owl]

Pride is definitely one of the Vulcans' primary flaws yeup

[still plover]

It varies, but is it here?

[marble lion]

Well yeah and usually they are superior hehe

[buoyant oar]

As a DM out of game:

• Prep. Don't shy away from it unless your games are more beer and pretzel affairs than epic fantasy.

• Take notes of your ideas for prep and when your players have you an absolute crazy theory that could be true. Change your plans sometimes. They love being right.

• Don't memorize the rules for players. Get into the habit of players learning their own stuff.

• Be open to criticism. Your Game's narrative nor style should ever be so important to you that challenging it should cause you undue stress.

• Learn Conflict Resolution the IRL Skill. But also understand you aren't your player's employer, their parent, nor their out of Game arbitrator.

[still plover]

"We had our wars, admiral, just as humans did. Our planet was devastated, our civilization nearly destroyed. Logic saved us. But it took almost 1500 years for us to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less than a century. There are those on the High Command who wonder what humans would achieve in the century to come. And they don't like the answer."

Change vulcans to elves, perhaps?

[green flower]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[hushed mason]

I'm going to dig in my garden now. Bye!

[marble lion]

Ill be honest. I think this trope of humans outperforming elves vulcans and other supersmart disciplined enlightened races is a bit silly

[livid owl]

Yesss molemaxx my friend (silly)

[marble lion]

Its a fun little powerfantasy to me but not what i think would happen

[livid owl]

I disagree. I think it's a fun way to set humans apart in a universe full of aliens. We're not overly strong or overly smart, but we've got grit and tenacity

[marble lion]

And they dont?

[still plover]

It's about the perception of time. Humans feel there isn't any, elves think things last forever.

[proper forum]

I am back

[livid owl]

They do, it's just always emphasized that humans have more of it compared to other races

[marble lion]

I think its selfloving nonsense

But considering its fiction, i cant prove its wrong

If the author wants humans to have more grit than the rest, noone can stop that

[proper forum]

I have spoken to my DM and my fellow players and they said that they actually like my character and her evil antics

[prime basin]

I would more so think elves think that they can take as much time as they need to get what they want

[marble lion]

Plot thickens

[livid owl]

It comes from a place of hope and 'the indomitable human spirit', it's a way of allowing humans to be unique in the universe.

Acting like we'd have zero specialities is pessimistic nonsense imo

[buoyant oar]

Most of these stories are written by Young people. Young people are more passionate, driving forces.

The Elves and long lived races represent older people in those young people's lives who have long forgotten in their maturity that they were once just has brash and just as hasty.

[marble lion]

Most humans do too

[proper forum]

The monk's player said that although his character doesn't like my character he likes her and her loud, boastful personality

[tropic plank]

That’s good
All problems can be resolved through good communication

[prime basin]

Right but an elf lives essentially 10x the time a human does

something that a human might want to get done in 1 year an elf might be okay with taking 10 years to get

[proper forum]

The DM even said that she as an evil character can create interesting plot hooks

[prime basin]

True, but chaotic evil usually is the only alignment that doesn't work very well

[marble lion]

I think its a core element to making humans interesting in fiction

[buoyant oar]

Imagine a friend who goes off the grid for 6 months and then shows up like nothing has changed.

For an Elf friend to a human, that 6 months is 20 years.

[marble lion]

I understand that part
I just dont think its realistic

[buoyant oar]

What is realistic for you then?

[proper forum]

I think he's thinking of getting her a redemption arc and making her good and he can go for it. But this just my speculation. I really want to see where he's going to take her.

[prime basin]

I think what makes humans interesting in fiction over other races are their emotions and how they would likely be much more ambitious than other races

[marble lion]

If individually compared, id literally just consider a human less capable

[proper forum]

Bro... goated profile

[marble lion]

Worldbuilding can impact that through things like birthrates though

[prime basin]

Thanks

[marble lion]

But going by individual, a sentient being without fantastical talents will just be worse than those with them

But obviously that isnt what people want

[high carbon]

Seems like humans just have heightened population a lot of times.

[prime basin]

Indeed, you see this in things like LOTR where the main factor for why humans are much important and the third and fourth age are because there are way more of them

[still plover]

Elves in LotR are essentially living in the post-apocalypse.

[prime basin]

in DND this isn't the case though, because each race is pretty much treated as equal outside of their racial features. So a dwarf could be better than a human but a human may be better than another fantastical race

[livid owl]

I think you're having a hard time identifying human 's fantastical talents because we are the only REAL ones to compare fantasy races to.

Of course elves and dwarves seem better because they aren't actually real and thus given a praetornatural skill at magical things.

This is why I like DND humans imo because they're given a certain ingenuity build, I like that.

[buoyant oar]

In the Forgotten Realms Humans have the benefit of being native to Toril. Where as the ancestors to Elves, and Dwarves aren't.

[marble lion]

I find it strange to suggest that elves or dwarves would not develop things such as community, ambition, science etc

[fossil hollow]

Dwarves are especially known for their close knit clan structures in FR...

[marble lion]

So the talents humans have, i think the others would have too

[buoyant oar]

They do develop those things. But like humans, they are wary of outsiders.

[fossil hollow]

which i think is reasonable

[marble lion]

While they have specifically granted things humans are supposed to not have and dont irl

[midnight pond]

Humans are great because they can be whatever you want them to be and don't have a trope attached

[marble lion]

So to me it seems like theyd just be humans with a buff

[buoyant oar]

And the homes of Dwarves and Elves are generally not as hospitable to Humans.

[fossil hollow]

My personal take is that humans got those things from dwarves, dragons, giants, and elves. Theyre a hodgepodge of those "elder" cultures

[livid owl]

I don't think that's what's being said here.
Star trek does it best imo, a hopeful look on humanity expanding and exploring the stars with a true hunger for knowledge and curiosity.

Idk again I think any fantasy setting where humans are the dirt species feels unnecessarily pessimistic

[buoyant oar]

Living in a cave 100% of the time with no sun light would objectively suck for a human. Living in a society where change occurs at a rate once in your life is untenable for most humans.

[marble lion]

For example, if a full-elf was raised by only humans

[livid owl]

Like I get it, and I don't think they should be BETTER, just that they have a trait they're known for

In this case, the indomitable human spirit

[remote wadi]

I was always curious why Barbs get Con and Dex for Unarmored instead of Str and Con

[marble lion]

Would that elf not develop grit and ambition too?

While still having the natural fantasy gifts

[buoyant oar]

That Elf would. But exceptions aren't Rules.

[remote wadi]

Seems a little strange to try and invest in a stat that rarely benefits Barb that much

[atomic kayak]

incidentally, you are stumbling along the exact reasons that species lost fixed ASIs

[buoyant oar]

Something being possible does not mean it would automatically be wide spread.

[marble lion]

To me this just feels like an invention made so humans arent just the less cool thing
Reasonable to include in a fantasy
But not true

[woven flint]

Dexterity does benefit barbarians because they get Advantage on Initiative Rolls and also on Dex saves from effects they can see

[marble lion]

Humans get the pity power of "nah id win"

[woven flint]

Higher Dex means better saves and initiative

[atomic kayak]

this reminds me of the "humans are space orcs" concept, mostly because thats a space where people have tried to actually dive into "humans vs other sapients" thing

[marble lion]

Not always though. Sometimes there are very good reasons and more fantastical things making humans unique and relevant

[toxic quartz]

What if all dexterity and no intelligence

[livid owl]

Bro humans are like my least favorite species but I can acknowledge that they are special in their own right

This is a matter of opinion and obviously there's no changing either of ours, which is fine, but I think we just have two extremely different outlooks on this conversation.

[prime basin]

dex fighter build

[wraith kelp]

Hey lord Kas i have a question

[marble lion]

As a note i love humans

[hushed mason]

Thta was a short trip.

[tropic plank]

Humans specialty is that they’re incredibly adaptable and live a medium life

[marble lion]

Second fav species

[toxic quartz]

Are you not a human?

[marble lion]

In fiction you derp

[wraith kelp]

so in stranger things there was a character mentioned named Kas so i now wonder whos Kas

[fossil hollow]

The name of the vampire and ex-general of Vecna

Kas the Betrayer

[toxic quartz]

Nah uh, you are

[wraith kelp]

it makes sence that its connected to vecna

[livid owl]

Crazy considering our stances on this topic LMAO

Like I hate the Avatar movies because humans are in them and the alien designs were made to look extra human so people could relate to them. But I stand by the fact that we are unique even in a universe full of other sapients dammit!! (Lighthearted)

Anyways watch me avoid playing a normal human character at all costs

[fossil hollow]

once you gain a level, you aint a normal humie

[livid owl]

True

Captain Faerun

[toxic quartz]

I have a question, if i were to play a skeleton ranger. And my forearm gets broken should it just be like. The hand is unmovable like the bones were acting like muscle or would it just be broken?

[marble lion]

I love leaning into humans being the scary underdog overtaking all
I just cant help but question it as i shout my battlecry

[fossil hollow]

that would be homebrew and something to ask your DM

[tropic plank]

This is where magic solves all your problems

[marble lion]

In general, flavoured stuff is rationalised in a way that follows normal rules

[buoyant oar]

Humans represent change in a setting. Most other baseline species represent some kind of constant humans. Don't do that

[marble lion]

I dont think broken limbs are official rules?

[rough basalt]

Nope

[buoyant oar]

Especially, when you consider that how much of this world that we all inhabit has changed in the last 200 years

[rough basalt]

There's some niche interactions that involve limbs but it's usually the head, and it being cut off

[marble lion]

Oh wow can you like take away heads?

[buoyant oar]

If an elf from the Forgotten Realms lived his entire life on Earth. And died of old age today. He was born before the fall of Constantinople

[rough basalt]

Vorpal Weapons

[marble lion]

I love removed heads

[rough basalt]

If you crit with them, they decapitate the target if they can

[high carbon]

I cast remove head

[tropic plank]

Elves should live in trees not houses
Dwarves shouldn’t value gold but iron
Etc, tiny changes to make them less human variant

[high carbon]

(said the barbarian)

[rough basalt]

If the creature only has one head or no heads left and isn't a Legendary creature it dies instantly

[marble lion]

Roll performance

[minor cargo]

One of my fav world setups is that humans are an invasive species (The Witcher).

[toxic quartz]

We’re they go?

[tropic plank]

We already have human variants they’re called variant humans!

[buoyant oar]

His father if subjected to the same rules would have watched Julius Caesar, Rise to power

[high carbon]

14

[rough basalt]

Ye that's why 2024 human had variant human funneled in

[buoyant oar]

So humans represent an upsetting of balance in most fantasy settings in the Forgotten Realms. They're one of the original races, though of that original sect. They were still the newest.

[rough basalt]

The extra origin feat is what can make humans different from each other

[marble lion]

Nice arc, clean cut, bit lacking on the blood spatter angle though and you didnt catch it so now theres dirt sigh

[prime basin]

If he lived 1000 years he would've been alive before the normans conquered england

[high carbon]

Haha

[buoyant oar]

Even though they were one of the Creator races, in the Forgotten Realms when humans started being movers and shakers, it wasn't long before the rest of them started dying off

[rough basalt]

Some humans are more resilient than others (Tough), some are more talented (Skilled) some have naturally good reflexes (Alert)

[main maple]

Is Blood Hunter an official class

[woven flint]

And some can fart fire out their ass (Magic Initiate) /joke

[rough basalt]

No

[prime basin]

Fair, but everyone can say that for any other race

[fossil hollow]

no

[buoyant oar]

The only official classes are the ones in the player's handbook and eberron Forge of the artificer

[fossil hollow]

which you can get from background

[prime basin]

No, but it is a class you can use on dnd beyond

[prime basin]

Indeed

[marble lion]

Its a third party class but made by a very popular and published group

[woven flint]

Ask your dm first before you do

[tropic plank]

I really hate the ‘humans come and all the other races start dying’ trope, it worked mostly for Tolkien because he wanted the world to be dead already, it won’t work if you’re having your decaying world and high magic

[woven flint]

Humans are capable of a lot, especially in D&D
Do you know how many high power mages in the lore are Humans?

[rough basalt]

Humans sit in an area a lot of species don't

A lot of species are either long lived or extremely short lived

[woven flint]

Humans being overpowered in media isn't exactly uncommon

[rough basalt]

So they have the ambition and drive of a short lived species but more time than a majority of other short lived species

Also we spread like rabbits

[buoyant oar]

Well that's just how it was in the Realms at the very beginning. Those Creator races didn't just disappear. They turned into other things. The fae became all of the small little fey, and spirits that wander the world. The aarae, became all of the avaian reasoning creatures like the arakocra, and kenku. The batrachi, became the amphibious ones, the kua toa, bullywugs, locathah. And the sarruhk, became all of reptilian species, like yuan-ti

[rough basalt]

Humans are like Hydra heads

[buoyant oar]

Humans, became other types of humans

[rough basalt]

You kill one and two more appear

Humans are actually pretty OP in general

[agile dawn]

is it possible to just keep your character and stats and move from campaign to campaign

[buoyant oar]

What you're looking for is official play like Legends of grayhawk or adventurers League

[woven flint]

Not typically

[high carbon]

Its better to create a new character for each campaign

[rough basalt]

You throw a human in Icewind Dale and their skin just goes "nah I'd adapt"

[high carbon]

Oh that is true tho

[naive cedar]

You can keep a general character idea but it’s important that the character fit the campaign

[prime basin]

Theoretically you could have a decaying world that is decaying because more magic is getting introduced into the world and the main race are the ones who use lots of magic where as others don't and so are dying out because of too much magic

[buoyant oar]

What I love about icewind Dale is, It's not even the most further north humans are in Faerûn

[naive cedar]

Icewind dale is so great

[prime basin]

"Magic emissions are not a thing! They never were!"

[rough basalt]

Ye humans can just adapt

[buoyant oar]

There are humans who live in places where that Dale would be considered warm

[rough basalt]

Human adaptation, and spreading like rabbits are why we're OP in fantasy worlds

Coupled with a 80 to 100 year lifespan

[tropic plank]

That would be a fun version of the trope
Like an inverse of the spellplague

[fringe comet]

When's the next "update" I suppose for DND with new creatures and PCs and stuff?

[rough basalt]

Nothing yet

[high carbon]

Probably not for awhile

[buoyant oar]

You have the humans of the great glacier, which on the most recent map. Looks like there's nothing there but there are seas, Giants, and several different ethnic groups of humans who all live there.

Then there are the Sossrim, a squat and short people who live on the edge of Yal Tengri.

And then there are the Jarnsaxa, an Amazonian tribe, that lives on the Northern side of the Great Ice Sea

[fringe comet]

Aw ok

[rough basalt]

WotC hasn't said anything about new content confirmed since Eberron/FR

[tropic plank]

They’re adding little stuff all the time, but hopefully 6th edition doesn’t come anytime soon I just got into 5E

[fringe comet]

Oh ok

[fickle burrow]

Could anyone recommend a site for char sheets?

[prime basin]

Whenever they add new adventures that are fleshed out like descent into avernus or waterdeep

[prime basin]

dnd beyond

[fickle burrow]

I need one that has astral elf and self astral monk

[buoyant oar]

For the elf you will need spell jammer adventures in space

[fickle burrow]

And how much is that✌🏻✌🏻

[buoyant oar]

It's one of the more expensive options because it's one of those three book bundles

[midnight pond]

1 billion

[fickle burrow]

Ain't paying allat

[prime basin]

Then its officially joever for you

[fickle burrow]

Sigh

No other way?

[rough basalt]

Nope

[buoyant oar]

A remarkable amount of content is made officially free by Wizards of the Coast. People deserve to be paid for their work when it comes to new content

[high carbon]

PDF character sheets are very nice to fill in how you see fit.

[prime basin]

You can play the base stuff they give you without paying money but you ain't gonna get an astral monk or astral elf

[midnight pond]

Manually edit a sheet for hours

[buoyant oar]

There used to be a way, however, it's been about a year and a half now since Wizards of the Coast turned off a la carte purchasing on D&D Beyond.

[blissful ibex]

and you can find those here c: https://www.dndbeyond.com/resources/1779-d-d-character-sheets#OfficialCharacterSheets

[rough basalt]

Not many have spelljammer or allow it either anyways

Astral Elf would probably be a compromise tho since it's just an Elf

[buoyant oar]

That to be fair it was one of the weaker lineup items for the entire Edition which was sad getting how much hype it had behind it

[blissful ibex]

I explictly have the hardcover so I can run plasmoid without complaints

[rough basalt]

Ye they dropped the ball

They should do a secondary book for it like Eberron

[buoyant oar]

I shall never get over, ship combat rules. Basically boiling down to don't do it

[fickle burrow]

I mean idc it's my first session, it sounds cool, I want to play it

I'll js pirate it

[buoyant oar]

Unfortunately, what sounds cool is mostly irrelevant unless your DM has okayed it

[blissful ibex]

yeah, the digital version of the AAG is in a 3 book bundle for $70
I literally just need one page out of the book, it's kinda ridiculous that I can't just buy the player portion but need to buy the adventure and the monster manual as well

[buoyant oar]

Piracy is bad. Don't do it.

[rough basalt]

Most of the Astral Adventurers Guide is ship statblocks then ship combat
Number 1: Don't
Number 2: Have fun not doing it

[prime basin]

Indeed...

[fickle burrow]

✌🏻

[rough basalt]

You'll get removed from this discord for doing that, probably, most likely. As a fair warning.

[buoyant oar]

Yeah, coming into a company's official space and then saying that you're going to actively steal their work is largely a Galaxy brain move

[prime basin]

Indeed

[hushed mason]

You could always swich to 3rd edition...

[fickle burrow]

I really looked up the the book with dhampir, first thing that popped up

[blissful ibex]

nope c:
would rather go play pathfinder at that point

[prime basin]

Y'all playing 3rd edition? Im still on 1st edition rules

[hushed mason]

The books are on Archive.org.

[prime basin]

haven't upgraded yet

[fickle burrow]

Exactly what I used

[rough basalt]

I'm still on chainmail despite it being 30 years before my time /j

[midnight pond]

To run ships I use homebrew lol. I make the ship magical to be moved with a command word then use a token players can 'mount'. It's pretty much a creature.

[limber bough]

Does anyone know if they are gonna release the unearthed arcana playtest material on ddb?

[fossil hollow]

they dont

[buoyant oar]

There are many things about the Wizards of the Coast production pipeline that confound me.

I loved the spelljammer novel. That came out a couple of years ago, I thought it was great but that was still a couple years after the source book. And now it's been a couple years since then. And that's all we got.

[fossil hollow]

They dont really have the time to put playtest content of all things in the character creator

[limber bough]

Aw man

[buoyant oar]

They built this hype up about this new team of characters for the new novels. The fallbacks who have now been in two novels and a comic book series. They're even mentioned in the lore glossary of the core books.

And then they weren't really mentioned at all in the two forgotten Realms books where they could have had a lot of art about them

[tropic plank]

Wotc production:

1. make a banger idea
2. Never follow up on it
3. Repeat

[buoyant oar]

I just have noticed a lot of strange lack of synergy going on here. I can't help myself sometimes being from marketing and all that

[sleek cloud]

Someone’s casting mass modify memory on them repeatedly

[buoyant oar]

But like there was some effort to acknowledge them because they put the villain from one of the novels on the cover of one of the books.

[rough basalt]

Probably corporate issues leaking into development

[prime basin]

Im mostly waiting for an update to old species

[tropic plank]

Elminster keeps popping in and distracting them whenever an idea would mess Faerun up

[prime basin]

also more subclasses

[rough basalt]

The fact they haven't confirmed anything for this year yet makes me a tad nervous.

[buoyant oar]

Yeah yeah. I'm still riding the high of when they unveiled the year of Drizzt.

Announced reprints of all the books with a new cover style. Revealed two new dark Elven civilizations never before seen. Had an a-list Hollywood actor narrated animated short form of the characters origin story.

And then never talked about any of that ever again and then actively deleted that video

[prime basin]

They forgot about him because he was a ranger

[buoyant oar]

Somebody hasn't been keeping up with the novels. He's a monk now

[naive cedar]

Wait really?

[fringe comet]

Can someone recommend how I do this without homebrew:
Next campaign I'll be playing a warforged artificer (artillery ) but our dM has allowed variants for PCs (e.g. being a Chinese or Welsh dragon-type dragonborne) so I want to do a sort of living Lego type thing but unsure of it

[prime basin]

That's why I said was

[buoyant oar]

I mean he still has his swords. But yeah, he went to the monastery of the yellow rose and trained under Grand Master Kane. Who was still alive somehow?

[fossil hollow]

dont monks have extended lifespans

[naive cedar]

Just make Minsc a barbarian or something at this point

[buoyant oar]

Kane is also one of those Damaran characters Salvatore likes

[rough basalt]

It feels like WotC can't really commit to anything big

[buoyant oar]

Nah. If you consider Minsc where is from, he's a small boy.

[rough basalt]

And I'm like 95% sure it's Hasbro

[buoyant oar]

The runt of a litter probably

[rough basalt]

Any time they reveal something big and it doesn't result in 1 DnDillion books sold Hasbro just shuts it down.

[tropic plank]

‘If we never commit to anything then nobody will ever get mad at us’

[buoyant oar]

I totally understood that going into 5th edition to be honest though. The 4E World State and novel line changes were capital s stupid.

[hushed mason]

I stopped reading at The Ghost King.

[buoyant oar]

I think the ghost King now officially means you're halfway through

[jovial shadow]

Hasbro's stock has been in the toilet. Only Wotc (D&D) has been it's sole lifeline.

[hushed mason]

Yeah, I don't need to read anymore. The world will forever be 3.5. 🙂

[rough basalt]

Ye and Hasbro has been strangling them for awhile

[buoyant oar]

I don't mind rolling with the punches like with the spell plague. I thought that event was going to be really cool to play in.

I was already thinking of how characters could be affected by this. When the news dropped about the spell plague.

What was dumb Was the 100-year time Skip

[minor cargo]

I… think this might be misleading. MTG alone makes more money than D&D.

I’m at the gym and can’t check but I’m very, very confident about that.

[rough basalt]

I imagine the new design team wanted to do Dark Sun 5e and the Hasbro reps had a heart attack and that's why we haven't gotten any confirmed products for the year

[rough basalt]

Yeah MtG is what keeps Hasbro and DnD running

[buoyant oar]

You know it was bothering me and I actually went back and did some research going back past 5-6 years. Most of the yearly announcements didn't come until early March.

[fossil hollow]

wasnt there a lawsuit against hasbro recently because MtG was Hasbro's cash cow?

[naive cedar]

MTG is a giant cash cow yeah

It’s probably the main reason WOTC still exists to begin with

[rough basalt]

Ah well, still. Hasbro reps def got hit with the petrification condition when the new design team was like "Hey we wanna bring back the world where you kill evil slavers and strike down evil mages turned god-like beings"

[naive cedar]

I just want Psion tbh idc if it’s in dark sun or not

[jovial shadow]

I don't know what MTG is, I just know D&D made them close to $1 billion in sales, but Hasbro as an entity was still something like $1.4 billion in the red

[stoic haven]

Tbf, I kinda wish MtG stuck to its own lore and game rather than taking parts of other media /hot take

[buoyant oar]

Magic the Gathering

[fossil hollow]

Magic the Gathering

[prime basin]

MTG makes a little less than what DND makes per year

[rough basalt]

It's a card game

[naive cedar]

DND definitely makes a lot of money too though

[rough basalt]

So naturally it brings it bank

[prime basin]

DND made 1.1 billion in 2024

[naive cedar]

But MTG might be cheaper to make since it’s just cards

[hidden spindle]

We could use more MTG X D&D Collabs

Strixhaven 2.0?

[fossil hollow]

im seeing 1.08 B, but not sure how much i trust that number

[prime basin]

That's a fair comparison, but the prices for cards might also be cheaper

[rough basalt]

Eh

[naive cedar]

They both make tons of money regardless

[rough basalt]

Card games get really expensive

[prime basin]

regardless i think magic the gathering probably trades better in terms of profits but makes slightly less money than dnd per year

[rough basalt]

Especially due to the scalping pandemic that's been going on for quite a few years

[fossil hollow]

https://investor.hasbro.com/magic-gathering

Total MAGIC revenue was $1.08 billion across all expressions (tabletop and digital) FY 2024.

[stoic haven]

I am in somewhat agreement with this, but I think they should cut down on collabs in general

[rough basalt]

Ye I don't want the CoD collab yet

[naive cedar]

A cod collab wouldn’t even make sense

[rough basalt]

Where we get a statblock for Frank Woods
4 attacks with M16A1 for 5d12 damage a attack

[fossil hollow]

MTG and DND Collabs i wish was more common. But nooo mtg gets TMNT, Spiderman, and Marvel before touchign Strixhaven again

[naive cedar]

DND and things ljke that makes sense

[fossil hollow]

youd be surprised with what they (MTG) collabed with already

[rough basalt]

It's not about the sense, it's about the money

[naive cedar]

Sadly correct

[stoic haven]

I dont like the TMNT, Spiderman or marvel collaboration tbh, I liked MtG as a Fantasy Card game

[rough basalt]

If CoD came to Hasbro and said 5 mil to put a Drizzt skin in Black Ops you'd see Drizzt wall bouncing and shotgunning people

[marble lion]

Only reason i dont hyperobsess over it. The crossovers ruin it

[naive cedar]

Okay I’d play rhat

[minor cargo]

Can you share your source on that? Here’s the Q3 2025 earnings report by Hasbro.

Obviously you’re quoting the yearly amount (and this doc goes through more specific metrics) - but if D&D was so big, I’d at least expect it to make the “highlight” slide (MTG is there).

https://investor.hasbro.com/static-files/5836500f-a833-4850-aab5-78abca721257

[rough basalt]

Ye DnD ain't reliably making money

Especially with how much they put money into new stuff just to scrap it

[marble lion]

Sora whats your profile banner from, looks familiar

[naive cedar]

It makes money but it’s not a cash cow like MTG is

[rough basalt]

Chainsaw Man

[marble lion]

Aaaah i knew it was a show i still want to watch

[stoic haven]

Yea, I come from a Yugioh background, but main thing there is the stupid price for low $$ prizes

[urban bolt]

Is this server less active nowadays?

[fossil hollow]

Oh thats hilarious, DnD isnt mentioned at all

[marble lion]

Thank you, back to dnd

[rough basalt]

Yeah DnD is just something Hasbro has cause they don't want anyone else having it

[fossil hollow]

Peppa Pig, Monopoly, and Transformers are mentioned more lmao

[rough basalt]

The plausible future is Lord Mercer arises to his new form as God-King and devours Hasbro under Darrington Press

[naive cedar]

DND is the biggest franchise in the TTRPG niche so it has a loyal fan base

[prime basin]

It was a cnbc source but i think it was WOTC as whole going from 700 mill in 2019 to 1.1 bill in 2024 instead of it being dnd making that much

[rough basalt]

Yeah but most of the large fan base are people who won't spend serious money on dnd

[naive cedar]

merchandise

[rough basalt]

They might buy a shirt and dice

But most won't buy books, only their dms do

[naive cedar]

True a lot of dnd stuff isn’t bought

[high carbon]

You can choose to spend nothing on playing DND. That whould be much harder to do with mtg.

[fossil hollow]

Proxying exists

[naive cedar]

Anyways I’m glad MTG makes billions so DND can still exist

[fossil hollow]

although that does cost money in terms of printer stuff

[rough basalt]

It's why DnD as a franchise just can't work imo

Cause it as a franchise relies on products that it's casual playerbase will buy/consume being good enough for them to buy and consume it

[minor cargo]

I actually think D&D financially is a very interesting product - and we have numbers we can look at, even beyond financials (like google searches, which you see spike during Stranger Things’ premiere).

In addition, it’s consumed differently than most entertainment products.

[rough basalt]

Like if Warlock ends up being a Dark Alliance '21 level flop, they're (Hasbro) probably gonna shut down the other game projects

[quasi monolith]

If this is the wrong place please point me to the right one. I’m trying to dm, i haven’t played a bunch of dnd just with a few friends. I was looking into dming (I know I’ll mess up) but some people mentioned doing sessions with more combat and then have some where you focus on the narrative with some combat as you’ll want something to do. Any opinions?

[naive cedar]

I am curious about warlock

[fossil hollow]

?newdm

whats the damn bot command again

[idle oar]

come on Dyno

?newdm

[cosmic roost]

What is a Dungeon Master?

• In Dungeons & Dragons, one person serves as the Dungeon Master, the game’s lead storyteller and referee. The DM runs the adventure for the players, who navigate its hazards and decide which paths to explore.

How does it work?

• Learn how to be a Dungeon Master with this YouTube video or D&D Beyond article.
• The D&D Free Rules are available at no cost and cover everything you need to know to play.

Where do I start?

• Decide what kind of campaign you want to run. Here’s a few good options for new DMs.
• Get advice from your fellow Dungeon Masters in #dm-discussion and #dm-world-building.

[fossil hollow]

man, Dyno hates me

[cerulean monolith]

I would say there is a not insignificant portion of the D&D playerbase that has never spent money on a WotC product

[rough basalt]

I'd argue it's over half but not over 3/4ths

[marble lion]

Yeah

[fossil hollow]

67% (heh)

[rough basalt]

Around 60-65% would be my guess

[cerulean monolith]

Seems a little high to me tbh. I was figuring closer to 25%

[fossil hollow]

im gonna walk to oncoming traffic now

[jovial shadow]

Yeah that their EBITDA. It's something companies release periodically to show their investors how well (or bad) they are doing. learned this in Graduate school and worked on one for our store when I was a Co-manager for Krogers years ago

[woven flint]

🗿
Timothy, you scorn me.

[rough basalt]

I think people who spend serious money on DnD are definitely in the minority

[fossil hollow]

look what you have all done to me, the corruption has spread

[rough basalt]

But spent money on at least the PHB? Probably at least half

[woven flint]

WE???
Nah, brother it's you.

[fossil hollow]

whose the one spamming avrae for 67

[woven flint]

Horizon, Knome, Toyota.

[fossil hollow]

and you

[cerulean monolith]

Serious money? Yeah. But most people have probably bought a book or two

[woven flint]

I didn't do it the last few times they did!

[rough basalt]

Maybe one yeah

[fossil hollow]

you were still there for the first few times

[minor cargo]

Mmm hmm. And that’s getting more and more common in terms of consumption. For example, a lot of Marvel “customers” also don’t spend money on it (stream a movie, play Rivals without premiums, etc.).

But whereas Disney and Marvel have large swathes of experts to try to engineer ways to convert that into “value”, D&D/WOTC don’t. It’s one of the few hobbies where I think the consumers also do a lot to drive brand value (through APs and other media) that does also get consumed - and often generated separate revenue streams!

[cerulean monolith]

Like, I’ve bought two D&D books in my life, CoS physical and FR:HoF digital, and I’ve had the 2014 core rule books, plus the 2014 starter set, bought physical for me as a gift

[prime basin]

I bought most of my content back when la carte was still a thing

most of it was just player stuff though

[sleek cloud]

Wish à la carte was still around

[rough basalt]

Yeah, DnD is something that can get so expensive as a hobby that you need to be passionate about it to buy a lot of content for a lot of people.

Meanwhile Marvel like you mentioned has Rivals that's just f2p and gives all content besides cosmetics for free

[remote wadi]

I only did to get the Gloomstalker class

[prime basin]

Hasbro CEO needs more money

[cerulean monolith]

I’d be shocked if that move netted them money

[minor cargo]

Probably saved them person hours on support tickets. 😩

(I also miss it. I thought it was a great feature.)

[crystal sapphire]

Hey this is random and maybe not an appropriate question for the channel I’m in not entirely sure which one this falls under, but did the wizards of the coast group this discord is about make the werewolf and vampire books there was another one I forget the name of I looked it up and they make stuff for the game if I’m correct or maybe confused idk

[prime basin]

Maybe, most dnd players aren't dms so the individual stuff you could buy was meant for players...it likely either put off players from dnd or forced them to buy entire books

[crimson gulch]

But they are wonderful to have around

[naive cedar]

If you’re referring to Vampire the Masquarade, rhats a completely different company

[loud tendon]

there are vampire roleplaying games like Vampire: The Masquerade which I believe is White Wolf or Renegade..

[rough basalt]

Yeah, but the discussion was about how Hasbro wants DnD to be some kinda infinite money printer franchise, when the minority of its fanbase will likely spend more than 200 bucks on products.

[crimson gulch]

Most of my players spend about 100 bucks a month on tickets to my games

[rotund thunder]

This is just me ranting but 2024 knowledge cleric confuses me. They're already super good, but they for some reason get an extra spell at every level compared to the amount other clerics get

[rough basalt]

Cause that's their thing

[naive cedar]

Knowledge cleric is good now?

[crystal sapphire]

Does this group make handbooks? And also thank u I was talking about that

[rotund thunder]

And on top of that, despite having nothing to do with psionics, they get a better version of telepathy that other classes and subclasses don't get

[rough basalt]

White Wolf has a crapload of VtM books alone

[crystal sapphire]

I’m assuming werewolf is the same as the vampire one

[rough basalt]

Nope

[crystal sapphire]

Ohh

[rough basalt]

The WoD systems are in the same universe but their focuses are very different

[naive cedar]

Werewolf the Apocalypse is also made by White Wolf but is a different product line

[rotund thunder]

Like, why does the psionic aberrant mind sorcerer get a crappier version of telepathy, but the knowledge cleric gets better telepathy and a saving throw proficiency?

[vale sage]

It's so hard to find games since I can't talk 😭

[remote wadi]

On public transportation? >_>

A monthly bus pass on RTD costs 80, how bad is traveling over there?

[crystal sapphire]

I gotchu

[rough basalt]

Like VtM is about doing evil messed up stuff in the shadows and not getting caught

[crystal sapphire]

so another question is there a book on the systems?

[rough basalt]

But Mage, another system in the same universe by white wolf is about not blowing yourself into chunks trying to cast a firebolt

[cerulean monolith]

I didn’t realize you gave a portion of your profits to WotC

[naive cedar]

WTA is action focused

[crimson gulch]

Less than 1%

[crimson gulch]

Nope, my sessions cost 25$ to play

[cerulean monolith]

You’re paying $80 a month on a bus pass??? What???