dnd-discussion

[blissful ibex]

at level level 1 you:

Attack 1:

• Uses Short Sword
• Gain vex advantage on hit

Attack 2:

• Uses Scimitar
• Uses Nick mastery to make the light weapon attack as part of the attack action
• Has advantage if Attack 1 hit

None of this uses your bonus action, you still have your bonus action available to use, but you can not use it to make a second light weapon attack because that can only be done once per turn and you did it as part of your action with nick

[halcyon bison]

2024 dual weilding is very confusing

[keen kestrel]

it's simple, you get to swing with your main weapon and then your nick weapon and that's it

[blissful ibex]

because it's not the light weapon property attack, it's an attack granmted by the feat that just so happens to also require you hit with a light weapon
and now that you have your BA freed up, you can spend it doing that

[keen kestrel]

the idea is to make it comparable to 2 handed weapons while still leaving you a bonus action to use on other stuff like potions

[exotic sinew]

But I don’t have dual wield at level 1

[keen kestrel]

correct, so you can only make 2 attacks with your action

[halcyon bison]

You don't use your bonus action to attack at all

[keen kestrel]

You'll always do shortsword into scimitar

[blissful ibex]

that second attack you're using nick for comes from this https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/equipment#Light
you have access to that at level 1

[exotic sinew]

How is that one action I am confused I thought off hand attacks were bonus action attacks

[keen kestrel]

yes, but nick rolls it into the action

So now you can use your bonus action to say use second wind

[blissful ibex]

the off hand attack of the light property is normally a bonus action
nick says if you make that attack with a nick weapon, it does not use your bonus action and is done as an additional extra attack during the attack action instead

[halcyon bison]

The nick feature from weapon mastery basically just waives the bonus action for the off hand attack

[jovial shadow]

It's not at all. The second weapon has to be a different weapon, but it has to be melee and not have the two handed property to get the bonus attack. It's not something 1st level people should be worried about until 4th level anyway.

[keen kestrel]

Basically, just think of it as you can't attack 3 times until you get dual wielder at level 4

[exotic sinew]

Ohhh so nick isn’t like I hit them with the scimitar and then can make the attack with the same action not the bonus, it is making the light property attack with the scimitar means that it is part of the same action not the bonus action.

[keen kestrel]

Yes, you just attack with shortsword into attack with scimitar in the same breath

Now you're tired, can't make another swing but can pull out a potion and drink it

[blissful ibex]

you have to hit them with the short sword first
then as part of the same action you get to hit with the scimitar because nick makes the light property attack just another basic extra attack instead of using your bonus action

[exotic sinew]

So can I still use my bonus action to make an attack as well or not??

[shrewd grotto]

Thinking of getting my monk warforged the elven boots that make your steps quiet and advantage in stealth

[keen kestrel]

not until you get the dual wielder feat at level 4

[shrewd grotto]

We start the campaign lvl 5, and we get an uncommon item. Them boots sound cool, especially cuz we riding a big ass metal ship, he prolly loud as hell

[blissful ibex]

not until level 4 when you take the dual wielder feat, you can't make two light weapon extra attacks in the same turn
you can use your BA to cast hunter's mark though, or move it onto a new enemy

[keen kestrel]

See, this is the only reason I'd play a ranger

[exotic sinew]

And can I use ensnaring strike with a melee weapon attack?

[crimson gulch]

Dual weilding rangers slay so hard

Hunters mark and spinning blades goes brrrrre

[keen kestrel]

ngl, the new paladin with dual wiedling is incredibly fun

divine favor doesn't even use concentration

[blissful ibex]

Bladelock can do it as well, though need a level of fighter to get proficiencies and weapon masteries because there's no optional Invocation that grants two weapons or that gives weapon masteries

[halcyon bison]

Yes!

[blissful ibex]

blade lock just constantly not getting the support it needs >.>
maybe they'll add it when they update hexblade or something

[crimson gulch]

Vengeance paladin can divine favor and hunters mark

[keen kestrel]

I mean yeah, but that's two full turns and consumes more spell slots, meanwhile I can do it turn one then start hitting 4 times a turn on turn 2

[blissful ibex]

Ensnaring Strike and Zephyr Strike are both very good options for melee range ranger

[fossil hollow]

you dont really need HM

[crimson gulch]

There both bonus actions, it can be worth it at times

[keen kestrel]

I can believe it, just noting that this is for a dual wielding paladin (vengeance is not as good for it as genie in my humble opinion)

[severe rampart]

So... hypothetically, if a level 8 lore bard made some... less than ideal choices, is it not too late to save him through optimization?

[fossil hollow]

played a genie paladin dual wielder, good old P4R4D153 L05T

[keen kestrel]

it's a wild time

[crimson gulch]

Sraw as many cards from the deck of many things as you can, you will be fixed one way or another

[fossil hollow]

when he got revived, i played the Windows reboot sound

[severe rampart]

no thanks, I do not want to get 2 intelligence, or instant death

[blissful ibex]

you could also end up with 2 death or instant intelligence

[severe rampart]

or an intelligent death

[keen kestrel]

It's even more fun since dual wielding feels flavorful to a desert warrior

[exotic sinew]

But I can only chose either hunters mark or ensnaring strike cause they are both concentration

[blissful ibex]

the trick is knowing when it's time to switch

[keen kestrel]

He's a little crazy though, happily just running into fights that he shouldn't be (he just arrived in Barovia where the rest of the party is level 5 and immediately jumped into fighting)

[exotic sinew]

Yea I have no idea lol I am newer to the dnd space so I honestly thought that rangers were archers but now this conversation has given me a completely different perspective

[jovial shadow]

Hunter's mark is better since Ensnaring Strike requires them to fail a save and if they are large or greater they get advantage on the save and the spell ends if they save. With HM you are doing damage regardless

[fossil hollow]

ranger =/= ranged. theyre rangers similar to aragorn or park rangers

[blissful ibex]

fighter is honenstly the better pure 'archer' class, rangers are like a mix of wilderness guide, scout, hunter, and fighter

[fossil hollow]

and aragorn never used ranged weapons except for throwing a sword

[severe rampart]

Any class can use ranged weapons, some even do it better than actual rangers

[exotic sinew]

Yea I am liking the sound of the bayblade sword spinning hunters mark kinda fighting style I liked the idea of being an archer as well but that sounds funny and I am a Harengon (rabbit person) so it’s fitting

[wanton sorrel]

I realize i'm too over power as a cleric...

[blissful ibex]

Bow is still a good backup when you can't get close or while you're approaching a far off enemyt

[severe rampart]

What level?

[wanton sorrel]

8... I have 2 tough feats on it... and got my self a level 8 cleric with 107 health

[severe rampart]

your cleric might actually be stronger than my bard

[fossil hollow]

you cant take tough twice

[severe rampart]

what's your AC

[wanton sorrel]

20

[exotic sinew]

Alright thank you all for your words of wisdom. My lunch break is over so I must be getting back to work. You have given me much to think about

[severe rampart]

Yeah I'm dead

[wanton sorrel]

shrugs it let me on D&Dbeyond

[blissful ibex]

dndbeyond is very ramshackle and lets you do tons of things that are explicitly against the rules
just because the VTT lets you do it does not mean it is legal ruleswise

[halcyon bison]

That's weird. Maybe it let you take both the 2024 and 2014 one?

[fossil hollow]

thats... still doesnt mean you can

[wanton sorrel]

that's pretty much what happened

[wispy wing]

Are there any DnD items that give spellcasters +1 to attack and spell save DC? (Like Melf's staff in BG3)

[wanton sorrel]

Also my dungeon master said it was fine.

[lusty tendon]

guys should i make it where all of the subclasses in dnd and put them on my dnd beyond account as a homebrew

[severe rampart]

oh then if they said it's fine then it's fine, just count it as a home rule

[wanton sorrel]

ah, ok i should tell them that then.

[lusty tendon]

yeah its a common magical item for castors to get, i dont have any by memory but look at the items list in the dnd wiki

[blissful ibex]

Just grab War Caster or use a finesse weapon and take defensive duelist or something

[lusty tendon]

arcane grimware thats the item

[wispy wing]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/2411893-arcane-grimoire

This?

I think it is for wizards only. My character is a Sorceress

[blissful ibex]

each class has a specific focus from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything
there's also the wand of the war mage, which is generic, but only works on spell attack rolls and not spell save DCs

For example, the druid one is the Moon Sickle and the warlock one is the Rod of the Pact Keeper

[wispy wing]

ok thaks. I think we have that as a shared resource.

[sleek cloud]

Sorcerer equivalent is bloodwell vial

[keen kestrel]

I love that they have one for each specific spellcaster

[severe rampart]

Really? what about Bards

[lusty tendon]

i love how their is technically 2 for bard, (a "magical" lute, and a war drum)

[blissful ibex]

issue is the cleric/paladin one is broken q_q

[keen kestrel]

They don't need one

[blissful ibex]

rhythm maker's drum
could likely get a DM to retool it as any instrument rather than a drum specifically

[lusty tendon]

yeah that one

[severe rampart]

a normal lute?

[lusty tendon]

instruments of the bards (apparently i misremembered that it isnt all lutes)

[blissful ibex]

those are less about getting a bonus to DC/spell attack and more about access to more spells/casts per day

[lusty tendon]

yep i thought they did (clearly i play bard characters)

[blissful ibex]

you also don't technically need to be a bard to use them, just risky because you have to take a moderately rough DC wis save to play them without being attuned
the casting off of them just requires you play the instrument

[vale sage]

we're rolling for stats for player characters, and we have 2 players who got 18s 😭

[worn lagoon]

i also got decent rolls when i rolled for my char, it was nice being able to afford stats for rp purposes

[blissful ibex]

and this is why I prefer standard array / point buy
rolled stats just has too much risk of heavily skewing things towards the ~one player that rolled well

[vale sage]

yeah, i have a rule that they can reroll one stat of their choosing but have to take the result

[worn lagoon]

I hate standart array so much
if i must, i will take point buy every time

[vale sage]

so if you get a bad roll you can reroll it, but risk the chance of getting an even worse roll LMAOO

[blissful ibex]

like most people being at 72~76 in stats and one person rolls an 89 or whetever

[worn lagoon]

I have yet to feel the 89 person dominating tbh

[vale sage]

well, it gives you high highs, and low lows in my experience

one person has a 20 in wisdom but a 7 in charisma, and like, 10s-14s in everything else

hes a wise goliath from a druidic circle/goliath community in the forests

[main maple]

Hello I’m a Paladin. Nice to meet you

[blissful ibex]

if I'm in a game with rolled stats I usually just ask to take standard array >.>

don't want to deal with it

[potent vector]

Standard array is the static options for stats. Rolled stats is smth seperate

[worn lagoon]

standart array doesn't let me comfortably get 16/16/14 so i hate it

[worn lagoon]

You don't have to lecture me on something I am very aware of.

[vale sage]

our wizard rolled an 18 a 6, and a 16, with anything else being 13 or under. so i find that it ends up p even with my little house rule

[vale sage]

no one was lecturing 😭

[potent vector]

Wrong reply lol

[blissful ibex]

it makes fairly rounded characters and is basically the optimal spread for multiclassing anyway so even on pointbuy I generally end up accidently making a standard array character

[worn lagoon]

is it really optimal, though.

[potent vector]

For MAD characters, absolutely

[blissful ibex]

it gets you 16,14,14 without ending up with multiple dumpo stats

[potent vector]

if someone tries to mitigate MAD classes they often don't like Standard array

[worn lagoon]

I'd rather have 16/16/14 tbh

[blissful ibex]

end up burning 2 points in another ability score for that one point though
it's a tradeoff either way

[vale sage]

ok one of my players has an 18 and a 17 LMAO thats wild

[worn lagoon]

rolled a 95 on stats, echo can vouch for it

three 18's

[severe rampart]

I rolled a 60.

[worn lagoon]

yeah, haha, poor guy

next campaign i should roll for you.

[severe rampart]

Do you understand why it took me half an hour of rolling to land on my final array of stats for avernus

[vale sage]

we have two characters with 20s LMAO

[worn lagoon]

what even is the chance for three 18's out of 6 stats

[ashen kelp]

Is there an age debuff? If a character is elderly?

[blissful ibex]

not RAW, no

[severe rampart]

1 in 134 million rougly, using a calculator of course

[severe rampart]

wait no my math is wrong

[wispy wing]

If you want to give yourself a debuff for age perhaps go for low DEX and higher WIS instead.

[vale sage]

the stat spreads are:

Goliath Druid: Int 14, Str 11, Dex 12, Wis 20, Con 14, Cha 7

Gnome Wizard: Int 16, Str 14, Dex 20 (wanted to be super dextrous and hard to hit, was raised as a soldier with an affinity for magic), Wis 8, Con 12, Cha 13

Elf Artificer: Int 18, Str 16, Dex 11, Wis 9, Con 14, 17 Cha

all of them have a real weak stat lmao

[halcyon bison]

No, but your DM might add an effect if you are magically aged to be particularly old (Like from 2014's ghost)

Usually you shouldn't get debuffed from what age you make your character when you make them

[ashen kelp]

U are now cursed with arthritis.

[empty thicket]

The sorcerer with dementia would be wild, forgetting spells midcasting

[hollow hedge]

Just had my first DnD session this morning

[wispy wing]

Wild magic sorcerer with dementia would make sense 🙂

[wispy wing]

How was it?

[empty thicket]

"yeah yeah, now i remember this spell, ermm....Fireball(?)"

[hollow hedge]

Pretty good for a neat session 0 one-shot

The real campaign starts next week

[wispy wing]

DM or player?

[hollow hedge]

PC

[wispy wing]

Nice so you are 100% fresh to the game then

[hollow hedge]

Yup. I think I was playing pretty well for my first game. Was playing on DnD Beyond

[wispy wing]

What class?

[hollow hedge]

Monk

[wispy wing]

starting from level 1?

[hollow hedge]

Yup

[wispy wing]

Thats good for beginners to learn the system.

[rough basalt]

Level 1 is best level.

[hollow hedge]

For monk it's more level 10

[wispy wing]

lvl 3 PCs start to get some more flavour. I dont like lvl 1.

[hollow hedge]

The ability to do 5 attacks per turn is pretty crazy imo

[hollow hedge]

That's when you get to the subclasses

[wispy wing]

exactly

[worn lagoon]

I am not fond of lv1 gameplay. You one-shot everything and everything can one-shot you. Also if you cast one spell you're done for the day.

[hollow hedge]

Cant remember if the elemental one is free

[fossil hollow]

The monk subclass in the Basic Rules is Open Hand

[feral fulcrum]

There's a reason why many DM's tend to jsut start at lvl 3.

[worn lagoon]

lv3 is ideal imo

[hollow hedge]

Yeah early levels, I feel, are to be more role-playing heavy as the group gets more familiar with each other

[wispy wing]

If you play on dndbeyond check what books the DM has bought. You can use shared content and get access to all the DMs stuff.

[feral fulcrum]

I mean you can do that at lvl 3 as well. Heck you can do it at lvl 20.

[hollow hedge]

And unfortunately I do not have that luxury with the party I have T~T

[feral fulcrum]

Lvl 1 and 2 are pretty much there as tutorial's for the completely new to TTRPG players. Or those who like "Okay so it rolled max damage, you go down in the first round." "Neat."

[blissful ibex]

2 can be decent as well, but 3 is basically just skipping the tutorial

[hollow hedge]

Which a lot of DnD players don't need

[blissful ibex]

exactly

[feral fulcrum]

3 is also where you get subclasses, so you avoid explaining why you're suddenly shooting lighitng out of your eyeballs, or turning psychic, or whathaveyou

[hollow hedge]

I'm fresh to the game but I'd at least like to start at level 2

[blissful ibex]

honnestly ,fair; theres a couple classes that get extra features at 2 that you would have to deal with while feeling out the basics but it's not really all that much more to handle and you're severely less likely to get one shot by some random mob]

[feral fulcrum]

It won't take long at all to reach lvl 3. Unless your DM just has...like no sense of progression at all. Early levels are the quickest to hit.

[blissful ibex]

many DMs basicaally have you level after every session until around 4~5 and then slow down from there; mostly dependant on the lever range of the campaign/module though

[worn lagoon]

I started my campaign at 7

[feral fulcrum]

My current campaign started at 3, and after 3 years and some odd months, we're at level 15.

[worn lagoon]

Wanted my players to be able to bring more established characters

[severe rampart]

"My character is the deadliest, best assassin in all of the realms" is a level 1 rogue

[worn lagoon]

"Sagely wizard, top of his class, can't cast scorching ray"

[blissful ibex]

which is why you need to tailor the backstory to fit character starting level

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah some people just...don't really get how to properly write their backstories to make sense. And have Main Charecter Syndrome

[blissful ibex]

a backstory with your character being an established chromatic dragonslayer in a campaign starting at level 15 hits completely different to one starting at level 1

[worn lagoon]

Justifying lv1 really doesn't make me want to write all that much

This one lv1 character I enjoyed making was a fresh graduate wizard so it all worked out

But otherwise i like them to have more under their belt

[severe rampart]

I can't believe I was about to waste Kalos on a campaign that I quit, thankfully Evren found me first

[blissful ibex]

but yeah, if I could start every campaign at at least level 2~3, I'd be happy

the multiclass setup I like actually does something at those levels XD

[worn lagoon]

If I wasn't in 3 campaigns and DMing one I'd love to look for a high-level campaign

[blissful ibex]

working my way through AL currently to get at some higher level gameplay
highest level campaign I'm in right now (that's not on probable perpetual hiatus) is level 5

[worn lagoon]

I NEED to throw a gloomassclericfighter at somethin'

[blissful ibex]

that and I need to find a 2024 group running gestalt rules >.>

[woven flint]

I'd do
Armorer or Forge Adept Artificer + Champion or Psi-Warrior Fighter For a Gestalt ngl

My Sahuagin fellow would be kinda nutty for it

[blissful ibex]

I just want to play my silly Preservation Druid / GOOlock without basically playing a level 5 character at level 10~11

that way she'd have all the subclass features I actually care about by level 10 and actually get her spells on time q_q
also she'd get the later level warlock stuff and actually have more than 5 Invocations which is fun c:

just impossible to find a game for it without having an existing dm that just randomly decides to run one with an existing party apparently >.>

there was one advertised fairly recently but they reneged on actually running it as a gestalt game after posting
also it was 2014 rules which I rather don't like verses 2024

[feral fulcrum]

I've still got an Arcane Archer/Artificer idea bouncing around in my noodle for basically Chaika (Anime charecter with a magic sniper rifle that fires spells from bullets)

[blissful ibex]

sadly, eldritch knight with true strike ends up being a better arcane archer than arcane archer q_q

[eager marsh]

that's just raw damage. EK doesnt have much anything in regards of firing off unique arrow effects

[blissful ibex]

a bunch of those are heavily limited though for AA, and you can reflavor your spells as cool arrow shots

[eager marsh]

You could, but Arcane Archer has the more directly 'this is a magical arrow' type effect even mechanically. And there is the refined version in the UA if you dont want the old 14' version

[blissful ibex]

@timid current sorry to ping; but could you please remove that emote or swap to one that is less flashy, I can't scroll to the bottom of the channel with it there as it's causing me medical issues >.>

[timid current]

absolutely!

[blissful ibex]

thank you

[timid current]

no problem. I'll keep it in mind for the future (not just that one but any flashing type reacts)

[keen kestrel]

Party wizard is the one you're talking about I'm guessing

[rocky glacier]

first you learn then you take away the L

[ancient siren]

For https://discord.com/channels/516367331358801950/540615561751822346
Can I post commissioned art? Or does it have to be done by the user?

Ah, nevermind. The info was provided in the pinned message not the channel description

[iron herald]

Does anyone know if there's an official optional rule in the DMG or somewhere, about swapping a character's casting stat? For example, an int warlock or a wisdom wizard.

[ancient siren]

Not to my knowledge

[hidden spindle]

There is, sort of. In '14 DMG. You can basically build-a-bear features.

[sick summit]

day 6 of saying building sized cats should be a thing both irl and in D&D

[hidden spindle]

They go into detail about picking up different class Spells. But there's really nothing stopping a class to pick up another class's Spellcasting feature instead

[fossil hollow]

there is not no. that would be homebrew

[iron herald]

Alright, thanks for the info!

[woven flint]

Timothy...

[fossil hollow]

... why am i being government named

[woven flint]

Ti-Moth.
Timothy...

[fossil hollow]

y-yes?

[woven flint]

Go the hell to bed!
Get rest.

[fossil hollow]

i am on my bed

[woven flint]

Sleep.

Immediately.

[fossil hollow]

19 - 1 = 18. rolled 18 on the wis save

[woven flint]

DC 100 Intimidation check.

[hidden spindle]

I've always wondered the line between 'homebrew' and 'Dm's purview' is... Since we can substitute class features

[fossil hollow]

66...

[woven flint]

Bed, Timothy.
Otherwise..
I'll become a Minmaxxer.

[fossil hollow]

like the youtuber group?

[hidden spindle]

Use '14's DMG: Substituting Class Features

[woven flint]

I'm going to actually throw Manana to Strahd and tell him he can have her

[fossil hollow]

ok, i leave the game then

[iron herald]

Cool, I'll check it out

[empty thicket]

so paladin warforged with defense fighting style?¿

[woven flint]

Nowhere near Minmaxxing lol

[empty thicket]

tried

[woven flint]

:[ you stinker.

[rugged ember]

Hmmm,maybe I must role my dice?

[woven flint]

The first time was utterly hilarious

[fossil hollow]

one.
-# thousand

[blissful ibex]

day 5370248 of insisting Warlock shoud have been an INT class, Cleric should have been a CHA class, and Sorcerer should have been a WIS class

[fossil hollow]

hoeh

[woven flint]

I disagree with..

All of those

[fossil hollow]

bait used to be believable /j

[keen kestrel]

Incorrect

[woven flint]

It's bait! She's baiting us!!!

[keen kestrel]

Not the ragebait!

[woven flint]

How dare she fool me...!!!

[fossil hollow]

its not too hard

ive been asleep the entire time

[woven flint]

I'm raging
Roll initiative.

[fossil hollow]

35

[keen kestrel]

Day 10000245 of saying hunter's mark should've been not a spell

[blissful ibex]

Initiative is now a WIS check c:

[woven flint]

Sorry, got a Natural 5000

[fossil hollow]

nuh uh

[blissful ibex]

Sorry, got a Natural 9001

[woven flint]

The grammar enrages me.

[woven flint]

Actually.....
I have an infinite initiative

[blissful ibex]

it's technically correct

[keen kestrel]

The best kind of correct

[woven flint]

Shouldn't have been.

[keen kestrel]

sorry I didn't wanna type "anything but a spell"

[empty thicket]

had a talk about this, its long.
Like with teh whole ranger thing, i just move out

[woven flint]

...
"Shouldn't have been a spell" is literally right there!!!!
I'm being baited, this is unacceptable

[blissful ibex]

Ranger should have just been a martial druid subclass with added mobility flavor features c:

[empty thicket]

Better lets talk about how not good is poison and why rogue had it on part of its kit

[keen kestrel]

Even better, why is smite a BA now

[blissful ibex]

Just need some Wyvern/Purple Worm poison c:

[woven flint]

Smite should've just been made once per turn instead of in the action economy, tis just my opinion

[empty thicket]

true, just have to find one and milk it like a cow without dying, easy.
Oh wait, 800 enemies resistance//immune to it.

[woven flint]

Sounds like a skill issue to me
Just ignore the fact they're immune to it and they'll forget too

[blissful ibex]

so those enemies you'll just have to make do with 10d6 + weapon damage

[blissful ibex]

Also, Poisoner feat lets you ignore resistance to poison

[jolly crypt]

I love the idea of name magic and a DND homebrew magic system that implemented names. Like Psychic Lance, but on steroids. I love the idea of characters using the dual meaning of their names too. Ex: Known as Rain, sorcerer gets advantage on cold damage rolls, but as Reign their dominate person/monster/etc targets have disadvantage.

[empty thicket]

welp, lets see how ti goes, i might go a Rogue assassin someday

[empty thicket]

how much damage it does right now? 1d8 extra?

[blissful ibex]

Poisoner does 2d8 with the feat c:
that's like 2 whole smites

[keen kestrel]

you mean one smite?

[fossil hollow]

gug

[woven flint]

Mèb, The Baiter of Rage

[woven flint]

I can't wait for you..
To go to sleep!!!!

[fossil hollow]

nah

[sour cloak]

Good Day my friends, I come to you in good fortunes!, I myself go by many of name, but most know me as Mr. Narrator "courteous bow' I hope my complexion doesn't bring you or your party members any dismay, I am only a humble story teller, who comes with forgotten tales lost to the realms of time and space, I seek only to entertain and learn, I am not of your realm I see this for I am nothing more than an Outsider, a tourist in your domain, but I come humbly and with gifts from beyond the Void's " the mysterious being places his hand into a portal, pulling out and revealing three object's of potential interest, a book or diary that holds mysterious properties and its title says; The Story of Everything, an Orb made of mysterious unknown properties and origin, and the Deck of Many Things," May our trade be a sign of trust and respect my dear friends.

[fossil hollow]

hoeh

[woven flint]

Cough Cough

Uh... whatcha talkin' about, bud?

[fossil hollow]

that woke me up

[woven flint]

That made me exhausted!!!

[blissful ibex]

Hi Exhausted!!!

[woven flint]

...
Losing my marbles as we speak

[fossil hollow]

what marbles

[blissful ibex]

Better go find them then!

[woven flint]

I should play a Cartographer Artificer soon

Maybe then I can find my marbles

[fossil hollow]

crunch

[livid echo]

Does anyone have any tips for painting miniatures? I bought a miniature that resembles a dwarf with wild hair and axe and shield I use a sword but close enough

What kind of paint works best? Or as my mum suggested can I just use marker to color the gray mini? ( I don’t think marker would be that affective to be honest )

[iron herald]

What brand of miniature?

[livid echo]

Official dnd mini

It’s an azer warrior to be specific I’m using for my dwarf paladin

[iron herald]

Ah, most miniature brands you'd need to spray primer on first, but I think those come pre-primed. That allows the paint to stick.

Personally my favorite brand of paint is Vallejo, it's very easy to work with. I've also heard good things about Army Painter's newer stuff. Take it nice and slow, just apply a little bit at a time until you get the feel for it. It might take a couple of layers to cover it nicely, let each layer dry before doing another.

Once the basic paint is done, consider applying a wash or two on top to give it some extra shading. Washes are often called "liquid talent" for how easy they are to use. You'll want at least one for the equipment (maybe black or brown or something), and one for the skin (generally red-ish for most skin tones).

Also it can be useful to practice a bit with the paint first, on cheap miniatures like green army men or something.

[livid echo]

Awesome thanks I appreciate it

[iron herald]

Happy to help! There's tons of mini painting tutorials on Youtube for further info. 😄

[livid echo]

And I would be curious to know if valejo paint comes from valejo California lol I drive through there all the time on my way to San Francisco

I might need to google it sometime see if it does come from there

[iron herald]

It comes from the name of a famous fantasy painter, Boris Vallejo.

[livid echo]

Awesome that’s very interesting ty for info

[woven flint]

I really like this Cartographer Artificer effect, very fun for caster friends that like to buff:
"Positioning. The target knows the location of all other map holders that are on the same plane of existence as itself. When casting a spell or creating another effect that requires being able to see the effect’s target, a map holder can target another map holder regardless of sight or cover, so long as the other map holder is still within the effect’s range."

[empty thicket]

okey, so its 1d8 damage the smite
Okey, lets say they let you use it like an extra per attack action (number of uses =1 + your proficiency + your charisma) per long rest
But now is a 1d6.

[humble cairn]

I know! I want to shenanigans that! Cast buffs on allies in different rooms, being "the guy in the chair" coordinating a heist.

[empty thicket]

More uses but less damage

[blissful ibex]

That's what Gaze of two Minds and Find Familiar are for

[woven flint]

Perhaps if we ever play in another Campaign together..
One of us should be one 🧐

[humble cairn]

But the Cartographer can do that for multiple different locations at once!

[woven flint]

And... so can your other caster friends!

[humble cairn]

Also some interesting non-caster effects. Theoretically a World Tree Barb could rescue their friend in another room by teleporting them through the wall.

[woven flint]

Warforged Cartographer Artificer named Pathfinder 💀 /silly

[vale sage]

ive been watching a lot more dnd videos as of late , why do people use props in there sessions?

[woven flint]

Probably to create visual effects or to help their players understand something

[vale sage]

fair some flavor

[woven flint]

Interesting...

[vale sage]

saw a guy buy a bunch of dollar store toys and made a hole scenery

[woven flint]

Now I'm looking at other things that could be done with it

[vale sage]

to test if he could

idk i guess as i get older i can appreciate dnd more then i used to

im only 27 so compaired to a lot of dnd players im still a newb but shrug

[vale sage]

i might start looking for a dnd group that i can be a player in since ive kinda been the forever dm lol

[woven flint]

Not the forever dm vibes 😢

[vale sage]

been wanting to play a bard that’s a jester.. underutilized entertainer archetype

[woven flint]

Glamor Bard for stunning performances?
Jokes and Humor that leaves your foes enamored and charmed? 🧐

[hoary totem]

Just a general question... Do you prefer dragonborn or kobolds?

[hidden spindle]

Dragonborns

[reef tundra]

Dragonborn

[burnt valley]

Dragonborn

[reef copper]

To play or to dm or in general?

I guess kobold unless as a player i have a small inclination towards Dragonborn. Kobolds are a bit more interesting in terms of worldbuilding currently for me due to their strong ability to become a great power but still yet they love to be loyal servants

[tame forge]

Hey so I have a cool version of polymorph that allows for me to turn into monsters and aberrations. DM also says I use the entire statblock so if a creature has spells I can use those specific spells and its abilities.

Any cool ideas on creatures to seek out for cool polymorphs? We are level 12

[lavish flame]

you're pretty close to Beholders. Maybe Aboleth for now

[tame forge]

Aboleth is a good one tbh. They hold importaince in our game somehow. We don't know more yet.

[lavish flame]

maybe a Star Spawn of some kind. those guys are fun

[reef copper]

True polymoph lvl 9?

[tame forge]

No it's a specific ability for a subclass from our campaign book. It's 3rd party c'thulu mythos content.

Very very cool stuff in it though.

[reef copper]

Ok what cr can you get to? Or how does it work

[tame forge]

As an action, you can expend one use of Bardic Inspiration instead of expending a spell slot to cast polymorph. When you cast the spell using this feature, you assume the form of an aberration or a monstrosity instead of a beast. The chosen aberration or monstrosity must have a challenge rating equal to or less than one-third of your bard level.

Once during the spell’s duration, when you hit with a weapon attack, you can roll the Bardic Inspiration die and add the number rolled to the attack’s damage.

So CR 4 I guess

Ah mimic would be fun!

[reef copper]

Neogi master: cr 4 spellcaster with high intelligence

Volos guide page 181

All around good, decent health and ac too

Honestly it’s basically incredibly powerful in a way since i asseme you get the spells every time. But thats more of a subclass issue unless the point is to be more powerful

[umbral girder]

Helmed Horror gets a lot of immunities and decent Hp and Multiattack. Also an AC of 20

[tame forge]

Awesome these are both cool!

[reef copper]

I fear this bard ngl, how about you?

[umbral girder]

Nope

[reef copper]

I mean you can arguably just become immune to 3 spells of your own choice and counter a caster completely

[past sedge]

How do you rationalize playing a subclass that you find amazing conceptually and mechanically but the class itself isnt what you like? I want to try graviturgy wizard it sounds so awesome but I am not a big fan of wizards themselves

[reef copper]

Do you dislike casters or just wizard? It does not sound great conceptually to me if you don’t like the class? How do you imagine graviturgy?

[past sedge]

Hmm I dislike full casters mainly except cleric since you can have more flexibility

[gentle torrent]

hello

Good morning

[past sedge]

I think using gravity spells just sounds sick

[strong gust]

Is there some kind of platform for quick, drop-in shortform online oneshots without prep? Some kind of lobby browser

Where you can spot a oneshot and just participate within an hour or two

[reef copper]

You can do that too but mainly just a dnd forum

[reef copper]

Well there is always homebrew i guess if you dont like being a full caster

[reef tundra]

If it helps I’m in the exact same boat. I love diviner wizards but not regular wizards

But I think diviner is worth it

[glass granite]

I like Scribe Wizards but not other wizards lol

[reef tundra]

Scribe wizards are the goat

[burnt valley]

Not true but it may stop them from using their best spells

Wait whats with the dislike for Wizards?

[reef copper]

I did not say automatic win tbf

Wizards are great, solid and what i consider the baseline caster

[reef tundra]

I don’t dislike them, I like all classes

It’s just that out of all of them, wizards are my least favourite. I still love them don’t get me wrong

[sand ember]

Since Pinterest has became an AI slop slutfest, where do you guys find images for inspiration ?

[hot gate]

Still pinterest, but constantly dodging the slop 😅

[reef tundra]

Same

[narrow ferry]

What kinda inspiration?

[limber trail]

Sometimes I just see cool stuff in the DMG/PHB and steal it to put into my world. Sometimes it's album covers and the like, or screenshots from games.

[reef copper]

I get inspiration from books i read for example

[limber trail]

Artstation can be pretty great too and is usually a little less tolerant RE AI (which it still does have, but there's less of it)

[narrow ferry]

Me too

Especially for npcs

[reef copper]

Its funny when you make a magic system and then later realize a magic system from a different series is similar. So you attach things that makes sense to your own system from the one you are reading about to solve some underdeveloped questions you have about your own system

[limber trail]

this was a mistake I am now very far down an artstation rabbit hole

[reef copper]

How so?

[limber trail]

I'm now delving into artstation getting even more concept art for my campaign lol

[sleek marten]

Hey Guys i got a question:
Im looking forward to build a wizard with the core rules on dndbeyond.
We are a large group and already got a cleric (healer) elf and we need a half support wizzard that is good at dealing damage.

Does anyone can help me to make a good build on dndbeyond?

[frank bane]

ArtStation, DeviantArt, Yandex Images, faerian.art, World Anvil

[still plover]

?tag new wizard

[cosmic roost]

Wizard

Study arcane magic and master spells for every purpose
Wizards are defined by their exhaustive study of magic’s inner workings. They cast spells of explosive fire, arcing lightning, subtle deception, and spectacular transformations. Their magic conjures monsters from other planes of existence, glimpses the future, or forms protective barriers. Their mightiest spells change one substance into another, call meteors from the sky, or open portals to other worlds.

-# Suggested Standard Array assignment
Str. 8 Dex. 12 Con. 13 Int. 15 Wis. 14 Cha. 10

Likes: Spellbooks
Complexity: Average
Starting HP: 6 + Con. modifier

[worn lagoon]

I haven't had my coffee so pass

[brave fiber]

Oh shucks

Awfully quiet

[burnt valley]

Deviantart is plagued with AI as well

[worn lagoon]

most of this server are americans so unfortunately not many are up atm

[glass granite]

Yup.
I’m still up tho (hello from the land down under)

[brave fiber]

To nugget

[glass granite]

Hallo

[worn lagoon]

Australia's great, I really enjoy visiting family there

[glass granite]

Been getting concerningly hot where I am, but thankfully it should start cooling down

Anywho, dnd

Hm…
Gimme unorthodox multiclass ideas

[echo meteor]

hmm, if you cast polymorph on someone making death saving throws… do they just stop and get back up as a t-rex?

[worn lagoon]

unorthodox how?

[glass granite]

Maybe unpopular would be a better word

[brave fiber]

Hello guys 🙂

[glass granite]

Hello, individual!

[burnt valley]

Wouldn't their hp still be zero so they're just unconscious

I mean its just temp hp

[echo meteor]

they would be an unconscious great ape?

[brave fiber]

Guess what chat, I’m in a campaign hehehehehehe

[glass granite]

That’s nice

[echo meteor]

i read that if you polymorph someone making death saving throw into giant ape, they can get back up..?

oh they errataed it so you can’t…

[knotty pasture]

Warlock Fighter sounds cool

[molten pumice]

2014 polymorph doesn't work on a creature with a hit points and 2024 polymorph has you keep your hit points but gain temp hp which wouldn't work to get you back on your feet, giant ape or not

[echo meteor]

level 2 fighter dip for action surge is classic

[tropic plank]

Any caster class and barbarian
Haven’t seen many bard/monks, or Eldritch knight fighters and pact of blade warlocks since I don’t know if the binding weapon can be the same for both classes or if it cancels out
Druid cleric maybe?

[molten pumice]

So it's most likely something house ruled if it was allowed at a table, checked legacy and current for both polymorph and giant apes and couldn't see anything that looked like it'd be allowed RAW

[knotty pasture]

Druid Cleric is really underrated but wicked good

A long rest's worth of goodberries

[frank monolith]

Also casting spirit guardians and turning into a bear is always fun

[tropic plank]

You’d think the two ‘healer’ classes would be used in tandem more often, but you see more cleric paladins than anything else, at least in my experience

[echo meteor]

a character with a level in monk/wizard/druid/barbarian/paladin… all the classes

[tropic plank]

That would be horrible to remember everything

[livid slate]

Do y'all have a theme that's like
A battle you've already lost?
Like depressing scary vibes

[echo meteor]

youd have so many features though

features and abilities

[burnt valley]

Absurd build

[glass granite]

Like a music theme?

[livid slate]

Yes for a boss

[burnt valley]

Pretty doable with Mizzium Apparatus

[tropic plank]

That’s why it’d be horrible
Thats like twenty different things just at level one in each class to remember, and you’d be pretty inefficient compared to the rest of the party

[livid slate]

Whats that

[echo meteor]

i never said it would be good, just unorthodox

[knotty pasture]

You won't use all the features from the 13 classes anyways

[molten pumice]

Charismaniac, paladin 5, sorcerer 3, warlock 3-7, bard 5-9

[tropic plank]

Just getting magic from every source dam

[burnt valley]

Pretty good with following DM fiat skills

[molten pumice]

Pact of the blade, smite, meta magic, and healing. Unarmored with dragon sorcerer, potential lore bard magic secrets

[glass granite]

Maybe this? It might be a bit off tho

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-iZ4uiw_3C0

[livid slate]

No that's perfect thank you 🙏I'm scared just listening to a bit ;-;

[knotty pasture]

Personally I see this build looking something like

Paladin 7 Sorc 1 Bard 1 Warlock 11

[glass granite]

When it comes to battle music I like using Viking (or rather Viking inspired) songs for the suspenseful one lol

[tropic plank]

Is it a common thing to avoid music with lyrics? I find it sort of distracts from the campaign, so unless it’s a super important or specific song I’ll jus use instrumental

[glass granite]

Oh yes definitely, I know many tables that don’t use lyrics (mind included)

Except if it’s like a boss where choir is fitting (think corrupted priest)

[tropic plank]

I wish I had the confidence to sing my own villain songs
As it is right now, none of my villains are ever bards

[molten pumice]

I mean sure, but then you're only really engaging with the concept on a technicality because you don't get meta magic and you barely get anything worth having from bard

[echo meteor]

fighter 2/wizard x sounds pretty cool… you can use any weapon/armour and cast spells

with action surge

[tropic plank]

That’s jus fighter second level being absolutely insane

[knotty pasture]

Grab Shield and Absorb Elements from Sorc, Sleep from Bard

[echo meteor]

you can wear heavy armor, shield, sword, take warcaster feat

use the new truestrike cantrip

or whack stuff with booming blade

[tropic plank]

Isn’t that a discount paladin

[worn lagoon]

I like eldritch knight/berserker barbarian thrower

[echo meteor]

u get wizard spells and action surge

paladins don’t get action surge

[knotty pasture]

Berserker really sucks in 5e and doesn't have a unique throw action unlike bg3

Recalling your weapon back after a throw also costs a BA as EK

[worn lagoon]

oh wait, it translates poorly here. this is so sad.

[echo meteor]

wat about ranger? 🤣

[worn lagoon]

ranger has spike growth. a class needs nothing beyond spike growth to be cool

[knotty pasture]

I really like bg3's Ranger but 5e Ranger's optional features are nice too

[echo meteor]

brooo goblins need to be the “meta” race

[knotty pasture]

If only we could have both of them instead of whatever 5e Ranger's Favored Enemy/Terrain is

[echo meteor]

“nimble escape” is so good

[tropic plank]

If everyone starts doing goblin voices I’m going to exterminate the green boys

[echo meteor]

Nimble Escape. You can take the Disengage or Hide action as a bonus action on each of your turns.

literally the best racial

plz show me a racial that tops this stupid ability

[humble cairn]

I mean .. innate flight is also pretty good for a species ability.

[echo meteor]

goblin fighter can jus disengage as bonus action and weave through combat

[glass granite]

Which…is fine. Not too broken. Flight or a feat is better imo

[echo meteor]

better than nimble escape though??

[dire vortex]

being able to take the Squat Nimbleness feat is a big plus

[echo meteor]

what feat competes with this thoo?

[glass granite]

Flight or a feat

[humble cairn]

Hard to say, but flight can often just completely bypass the need for disengage or Hide and doesn't use action economy, either.

[glass granite]

Or Tortle armor even, arguably depending on your class. And changeling shenanigans

And warforged +1 AC is also far better for some classes (monks, for example)

[echo meteor]

or, you just throw down https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/4632-eversmoking-bottle?srsltid=AfmBOopflc-5bUkPWQm460roe8UAMm8TRZEDwlQkqkwsJYn9WZ8TicDq then hide as bonus action

[humble cairn]

And what has always kind of irked me is the redundancy with Rogue. You'd think Goblin Rogue is a good combination, but Rogue Cunning Actions is just a better version of Nimble Escape and so it's like a wasted species feature.

[glass granite]

Cool, but then that consumes your entire turn and they will now attack your allies…

[humble cairn]

Ok sure. But it's not like .. that great? It is fun, so I understand liking it.

[echo meteor]

but dude!!! think about this,

action: attack
bonus action: hide
repeat

[glass granite]

Monks also have a very contested bonus action

[worn lagoon]

hey, better them than me

how did i fumble that. i am still not awake

[glass granite]

Really? You use your entire turn to protect yourself

[humble cairn]

I did not think that was a mistake, I thought you were just being very Tank minded.

[worn lagoon]

oh hell no, i'm sitting in my sharran fart cloud and the rest of you will manage

[glass granite]

It’s fun and relatively strong, sure, but it takes an entire turn to set up and a rogue can also just do it

[echo meteor]

or, consider this!!!
action: ray of frost
bonus action: disengage.

they will never reach you

[glass granite]

The humble bow

[tropic plank]

Stealth combat is a lot less fun in the tabletop than video games lead you to believe
I’m not saying you can’t find enjoyment, only that if you’re the only one being stealthy you’re going to annoy your fellow players and the dm

[echo meteor]

no, the plus is the -10ft movement!!! they’ll never catch you

[glass granite]

Melee enemies won’t be going for you anyway, if they have another target. You could also just ray of frost from a distance (plus ray of frosting from that range will give disadvantage)

[knotty pasture]

Sharran fart cloud?

[glass granite]

Bows far out range that

[knotty pasture]

I see you're a man of culture as well

[worn lagoon]

I would kill to have that spear in a tabletop campaign.

[echo meteor]

they dash on top of you… then you disengage as action??

[worn lagoon]

I get to attack AND summon a concentration-free cloud of darkness for three rounds? Sign me the hell up!

[glass granite]

They shoot you in the face

[echo meteor]

at disadvantage

[glass granite]

How come?

You ran away, you’re out of 5ft

[humble cairn]

Disengage does not impose Disadvantage.

[echo meteor]

dash in front of u… within 5 ft is diadvantage for shooting in the face

[humble cairn]

And an enemy with a bow is not going to try and stand next to you.

They're just going to stand back and shoot you.

[glass granite]

They don’t dash. They just shoot you in the face with their action

[echo meteor]

well obviously if they have a bow out… how do u do weapon switching??

[humble cairn]

Why would an enemy archer go and stand in front of you?

[echo meteor]

if they have a bow out, you go stab them… no?

[glass granite]

They can stow and shoot

[echo meteor]

wat?

[glass granite]

Free object interaction + drawing with an action

[humble cairn]

Nimble Escape is fine, but it is not overly powerful.

[echo meteor]

they can’t shoot tho

[glass granite]

How come

[glass granite]

Agreed. It’s nice and fun
But op? No

[echo meteor]

you just used your action to draw

how do u shoot?

[humble cairn]

You can draw a weapon for free at least once.

[glass granite]

Draw with your attack action. You can draw or stow a weapon for free with an attack.

[echo meteor]

wat? did they erata that in 2024??

is that updated??

[glass granite]

Haven’t played 2014, idk

[echo meteor]

i thought stowing was free action, drawing is action because you just used your free action to stow

[glass granite]

But it’s certainly a thing in 2024

[echo meteor]

they made changing weapons to shoot easier?

[glass granite]

They made changing weapons overall easier (assuming this ain’t in 2014)

[echo meteor]

show me the source wtf

[glass granite]

Gimme a sec

[echo meteor]

dammm that’s AWESOME!

you can now be japanese swordsman, stowing your blade between every swing

[knotty pasture]

I always imagined that in some longer campaigns, you can straight up swap out some story related legendary item for a certain spear

[glass granite]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/free-rules/rules-glossary#AttackAction

[worn lagoon]

In this campaign I'm DMing I've been generous with my custom magic items specifically because I yearn for the Shar spear

Has this made my party overpowered? Not in the slightest. Their damage is miraculously still awful.

[ember sandal]

how is that possible?

[echo meteor]

that’s awesome!

[glass granite]

Ikr.

[echo meteor]

how’s it work with opportunity attack??

[glass granite]

It’s not part of the attack action and so cannot happen

You attack with whichever weapon you have in hand

[worn lagoon]

They prioritize rp/themed builds over minding gameplay synergy to the point their feat choices or bad multiclasses ruin their damage output. E.g. bare fists barbarian who needed to sacc a feat to get unarmed fighting and does half the damage he would with a +0 greataxe.

[ember sandal]

ah, interesting choices

[worn lagoon]

I'm thinking of giving him special gloves that let him swap out one of his melee attacks with a lv3 inflict wounds

I could tie it to short rests and say using IW that way causes a numbing sensation in his hands that don't go away until he had a bit of rest

[rocky summit]

thats really cool ong

i love character specific magic items that encourage players to pick things that arent always mechanically beneficial

[worn lagoon]

it's more like i'm trying to salvage something out of these builds so i can let them have their rp while i don't pull my hair out trying to balance encounters

otherwise, a reasonable CR monster will effortlessly TPK this party

[rocky summit]

very fair

[echo meteor]

dude!!!

Surprise. If a combatant is surprised by combat starting, that combatant has Disadvantage on their Initiative roll. For example, if an ambusher starts combat while hidden from a foe who is unaware that combat is starting, that foe is surprised.

surprise got nerfed

[glass granite]

Yup

[ember sandal]

what was it before?

[echo meteor]

when you’re surprised, you skip your turn

[glass granite]

Which was very strong compared to what it is now

[ember sandal]

ya that is

[ember sandal]

is this an old edition's version?

[echo meteor]

so in a middle of conversation, a player says he will stab an npc…

everyone rolls initative as normal… but other players and npc gets a “surprised” debuff

[echo meteor]

5e

[glass granite]

Technically 2024 is also 5e

5.5e isn’t a term used by everyone

[ember sandal]

oh, that makes sense

I was just about to ask the difference between 5e and what we have now

[glass granite]

The round skip is 2014 rules

[echo meteor]

5e

[glass granite]

There are a lot of changes between 2014 and 2024, far too much to write in one message
Again, both are 5e

[echo meteor]

2024 isn’t 5e…

there’s 2024 then there’s 5e

[glass granite]

Classes overall got stronger, you get extra stats from your background instead of your species, everyone gets a free origin feat at level 1, and some classes get weapon masteries (additional weapon effects)

[lyric viper]

5e 2014 and 2024 core rule books are both 5e.

[rain fox]

hello

[echo meteor]

bro, that’s just confusing af

[lyric viper]

This is not a matter of debate and we would rather confusing misinformation implying it's a different edition not be spread around.

The 2024 books collect the updates made through books through the years like Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and Mordenkainen Presents Monsters of the Universe and collects them in an updated core rule book with other changes for quality of life.

You can easily play a 2014 and 2024 mixed game (I have done so for near a year when the 2024 rules were being playtested, and just let players update their characters as desired).

It is no where near the actual difference in rules between editions.

[burnt valley]

This is why initiativemaxxing is good at 2014

[lyric viper]

Just gotta mention if you're discussing 2014 or 2024 versions of a rule. Like how before you might need to specificy you were using TCoE or a MPMM version

[echo meteor]

i found it confusing because when you google “d&d 5e” you get 2014 ruleset… to get the 2024, you have to specify 2024

[ember sandal]

then I've been doing it wrong, ty

[echo meteor]

???

[ember sandal]

I want to use the 2024, but I keep looking up 5e

[echo meteor]

yaa same

[lyric viper]

Which still doesn't make them different editions, but understandably a bit confusing. Google's algorithm would have been shaped by over a decade of 5e searches picking 2014 options. It'll still take a bit to catch up.

And depends as well where you're looking. If I search 5e PHB and pick the first D&D Beyond option that comes up, that's 2024 for me.

The first Amazon option shows both the 2024 and 2014 handbook.

[minor cargo]

Yeah. Like how if you look up the TTRPG “Pathfinder”, some people will get the Paizo website to see the rules and stuff - and other people will see a car.

[echo meteor]

so if you look up “dnd 5e surprise” i get the 2014 rule…

i have to type “dnd 2024 surprise”

same is true for spells like “d&d 5e sleet storm”

i would get 2014 version of the spell which was more op 🤣

[glass granite]

Don’t get me started on “2024 Ranger” lol

[echo meteor]

it defaults to 2014 when you just type 5e rn sadly 🙁

[lyric viper]

Definitely a complication which I get is frustrating for sure. Need to double check on which ever platform you're using for the rules (D&D Beyond, Roll20) which source book that is from. Used to be a thing with Errata as well (D&D Beyond would update automatically, Roll20 would.. sometimes. maybe.) Or if you had access to the expansions 'Which orc am I looking at' (Eberron, Volo, MPMM)

[knotty pasture]

There's a lot more guides on 2014 after all

[lyric viper]

'Which aasimar am I looking at?' (DMG, Volo's, MPMM)

[stiff rock]

yeah it always confused me why multiple books have the same races

[knotty pasture]

Speaking of Aasimar, DMG Aasimar = Variant Aasimar in dndbeyond right

Some races do get updated/rebalanced over time, MPMM Aasimar being the latest version of Aasimar that people should default to, but its also perfectly fine to play older versions of Aasimar

[lyric viper]

If I recall correctly, yep. List it as basic rules. Which.. I mean, I guess technically that species was in the DMG as an example of how to make a new species.

[echo meteor]

it seems like 2024 versions are more op xD

[lyric viper]

There were some balance shifts. Some things certainly feel more powerful, and a few other things have been nerfed a little. Enemies and monsters also got some boosts too though.

[knotty pasture]

Dunno what happened to 2024 Aasimar, but 2014 Aasimar ended off quite decently, right at the middle

[lyric viper]

Legacy Drow consort vs MPMM drow consort.
Difference between a puny poisoned crossbow bolt or a PEW PEW PEW PEW arcane bombardment.

[echo meteor]

all the sorcerers got a massive buff

are there any martial sorcerers?

[worn lagoon]

It's one of the three casters with no extra attack subclass

[echo meteor]

warlock and wizards have a martial subclass thoo

[worn lagoon]

i am aware

[echo meteor]

the martial subclass makes them so much more fun to play

[worn lagoon]

all warlocks are potentially melee fighters

[ember sandal]

if you want to be technical, all classes can potentially be martial with the right playstyle and subclass

[worn lagoon]

okay

mind making a melee fighter out of a pure sorcerer

[lethal otter]

Need a good second level bard spell

[worn lagoon]

shatter

[lethal otter]

One thing I should mention. I am playing a pacifist. She has no weapons or damaging spells

[worn lagoon]

knock

[echo meteor]

invisibility, hold person

heat metal, silence

they have great 2nd level spells, wat u mean

[ember sandal]

just use melee weapons and ignore the fact you have spells, not really how it's meant to be played but is still possible

[worn lagoon]

it's possible, but that makes the original statement look quite useless

[ember sandal]

true

[echo meteor]

a bit sad bards don’t get misty step and vortex warp

[stiff rock]

shatter is my goto for 2nd level aoe

[still plover]

What's good for melee on mages? Maybe mage armour, true strike, shield, jump.

[echo meteor]

vortex warp is awesome!

[worn lagoon]

for a gish sorcerer... there's always sorcadin. or bladesinger sorcadin if you don't mind not going above lv3 spells and want to be quirky

[still plover]

Burning hands, might as well take it as a shotgun if you're going up close.

[worn lagoon]

inflict wounds

[echo meteor]

gross, i avoid that spell, it quickly get replaced with fireball for 3rd slot and there’s a bunch of utility spells 2nd slot

[knotty pasture]

Shadow Sorcerer, cast Darkness and just beat people up with a stick up close

[stiff rock]

all i'm saying is if i don't have fireball i usually have shatter lol

[worn lagoon]

you remind me of my shadow sorcerer sharpshooter

[still plover]

Shatter is awesome. I have broken so many things with it.

[undone rain]

So where do bards get their magic from? Spotify?

[tropic plank]

Fireball is unfortunately the only aoe spell in the running for a long while after getting third level spells

[undone rain]

When in doubt, fireball

[tropic plank]

They can hear the weave, just like how wizards can summon the power to disintegrate someone if they read a lot

[echo meteor]

id just upcast command or healing word tbh, :/

[tropic plank]

Healing word, famous aoe damage spell

[stiff rock]

hence i said damaging aoe in my original message. command and healing word are not aoe damage spells

[echo meteor]

who needs aoe DAMAGE when you can aoe SLOW?

[stiff rock]

can't kill enemies by slowing them down 💔

[echo meteor]

r u playing bard dps?

-_-

[stiff rock]

never played a bard lol, i just know shatter is a good damaging AOE for the person who asked what good 2nd level spells bard has

[echo meteor]

bards more “controlly” class :/

[stiff rock]

doesn't mean they're not allowed damaging spells, and shatter isn't objectively a bad spell

[echo meteor]

they can, i prefer slow 😛

[worn lagoon]

Giving my party thunder-absorbing rings so they can use shatter as a partywide heal

[echo meteor]

or upcast command

[stiff rock]

and you're entitled to your opinions

[echo meteor]

i sure am !!

[tropic plank]

You can get insane damage from clerics, and Druids, and even bards

If a class is ‘typically’ one thing doesn’t mean they can’t do more than that

[knotty pasture]

Its a good thing that Paladin and Sorc have such good synergy fr though

You can just dip into Paladin and melee people despite having no melee subclass

[echo meteor]

they can, i just dont like shatter

[stiff rock]

what do you find so bad about 3d8 thunder on a failed save?

[echo meteor]

“rimes binding ice”

[tropic plank]

The argument you laid out was framed not as a personal dislike of shatter but rather a dislike of bards taking damaging spells in general

[echo meteor]

no, they can… i just can’t find a good damaging spell at 2nd slot

[blissful ibex]

Spirit Guardians / Cojure Woodland Beings do work

[echo meteor]

they prob have some at different slot though

[stiff rock]

shatter?

[echo meteor]

i don’t like shatter

[stiff rock]

dissonant whispers upcasted?

[eager marsh]

Cloud of Daggers and Heat Metal are both very good

Dissonant isn't worth upcasting for damage, the damage from that comes from the attacks of oppurtunity it triggers

[blissful ibex]

honestly, fair; at least bard and druid get heat metal, and druid gets moonbeam

Phantasmal Force is also an incredibly solid spell in 2024

[echo meteor]

not bad :/

[stiff rock]

if your argument is that there aren't enough damaging spells at 2nd level for bard, what don't you like about shatter? it's an aoe con save for 3d8

[knotty pasture]

Pure Druid is the one without a lot of good direct damage options at T2-T3 games I find fr

[echo meteor]

con saves suck, other classes get better aoe on 2nd slot… though, i usually use 2nd slot for utility spells and 3rd slot for dmg, if i want… and upcast 1st

[knotty pasture]

I think my Spores Druid's main sources of damage is either beating people up with a stick alongside his summons or upcasting Blight

[blissful ibex]

2024 gives them reworked Conjure Animal which is actually quite nice

[eager marsh]

2nd level has very few good aoe spells for any class unless you count rime's binding ice

[echo meteor]

rimes binding ice ftw

[stiff rock]

fair enough, though i've never found con saves particularly awful unless you're casting a spell on an ogre or something famously beefy

[echo meteor]

2nd slot is mainly for misty step!

[eager marsh]

lv 2 spells are largely either utility or single target spells ideally

[echo meteor]

just pick up fae touched and get misty step 😛

[blissful ibex]

enlarge/reducing your monk or light weapon dual wield fighter or ranger is also a solid option

[echo meteor]

like i said, 2nd is mostly utility… shatter sucks

[tropic plank]

Lvl 2 spells are the odd middle child, because lvl 1 spells need to be good enough to sustain a weak early game class like wizard, and level three spells come when you reach the power spikes like extra attack

[humble cairn]

Enhance Ability was one of my most used spells as a Bard.

[echo meteor]

yooo, invisibility carried so many of my games, you can do SOO MUCH

[blissful ibex]

2~6d4 per round depending on target and level, not great but not terrible either, especially for what is ostensibly a utility spell

[echo meteor]

you just have to “not attack/cast “ but you can press a button, switch, pick up items, use items, move items, so many things

invisibility is so clutch

it lasts an hour

[blissful ibex]

But yeah, I'd take Heat Metal or Phantasmal Force over Shatter any day

especially if you can target armor with your heat metal

[echo meteor]

hold person, invisibility, misty step, any non damaging utility

[short glade]

Gaseous form is great

[echo meteor]

3rd slots are where the good stuff is at

[short glade]

I can’t remember what level that comes in but it’s great

[blissful ibex]

you can then use your spell replacements to replace your second level damaging spells with third level ones

[tropic plank]

I feel like we’re ignoring the use case of shatter against someone who really likes summon earth elemental

[echo meteor]

oddly specific scenarios 👍

[blissful ibex]

My druid replaces moonbeam with Conjure Animals basically the first chance she gets XD

[knotty pasture]

I like Maximilian's Earthen Grasp

[tropic plank]

Well when you’re facing Qin Shi Huang you’ll want shatter is all I’m saying

[echo meteor]

i play bladesinger wizard… i don’t really cast damage spells, i just shoot stuff with my crossbow :/

[blissful ibex]

Rare enough occurrence where you can basically relegate it to a scroll, and even then, you likely have better options by that point anyway

[echo meteor]

then pop off with fireball level 5

[tropic plank]

I always forget I have scrolls

[blissful ibex]

Also an elemental =/= a construct

[echo meteor]

yoo, feather fall scroll ALWAYS comes in clutch

[blissful ibex]

Have to remember you have items in inventory that do things and think of when you can apply them

It's one of the major tenants of the exploration pillar of play c:

[tropic plank]

-# I was trying to think of a silly situation where shatters conditional rock disadvantage was useful

[echo meteor]

or a knock scroll

[humble cairn]

The .. the Yellow Emperor? Is there some module set in historical China?

[tropic plank]

Terracotta

[blissful ibex]

oh, is that a 2014 thing? In 2024, constructs have disadvantage

[tropic plank]

Oh yeah I’m looking at the legacy version

[humble cairn]

Oh so like the depiction of him from like The Mummy franchise.

[worn lagoon]

Shatter deals good aoe damage with a highly economical cost

If you ask me, a third level spell slot is worth two ordinary lv2 ones if not more, so shatter is a good deal

[echo meteor]

idkk, you can’t exactly compare a fireball to invisibility, knock, misty step

[worn lagoon]

you will have at most two fireballs a day, except you won't because you're a bard

[echo meteor]

or my fav “vortex warp”! ❤️

[worn lagoon]

and then after a long time it becomes three fireballs a day

[echo meteor]

u can have mor.. u just have 2 upcast it xd

[worn lagoon]

if you still haven't got it, i'm talking about lv5 and 6

[echo meteor]

but sometimes a second slot spell can do more than 3rd slot

like invisibility, or hold person

[worn lagoon]

yeah there are def high impact lv2 spells

[echo meteor]

hold person is a hit or miss, but if it hit… it hits hard

guaranteed crit!!!

[worn lagoon]

depending on the enemies in the campaign it might do nothing at all

[echo meteor]

well, you can always upcast command 😛

but id just use 1st slot for command and just use misty step

[humble cairn]

Good when combined with ways to affect saving throws. Fairy Trickster or the Harper Agent Feats.

[echo meteor]

silvery barbs??

[humble cairn]

I made a Hobgoblin Harper Agent so I was able to Bonus Action Help against a target at 30ft, giving them Disadvantage to the next saving throw, then cast Hold Person as my Action, telling my melee partymates, "Well gentlemen, have at it."

[humble cairn]

Sure that's one way as well.

[echo meteor]

i just think of it as trading my lower level slot for a higher one

broo, grease is such a good spell

its slept on quite a bit

[humble cairn]

It is. Not being Concentration is great.

[echo meteor]

lol no concentration just throw it at a hallway

heck, throw multiple

[humble cairn]

Prone is only not great when you have a lot of ranged attackers in your party.

[echo meteor]

AND if they are melee range to your fighter, they want to move away and it gives free op attack

[humble cairn]

But the control is good.

[humble cairn]

Why would Grease do this?

[echo meteor]

because if they sit in the thing, they go prone again

because if they start their turn in it, they have to roll saving throw

[humble cairn]

So the smart thing to do is walk to the other side of the Fighter.

[echo meteor]

then u can grease there too 😛

no concentration

[humble cairn]

Not sure the Fighter would appreciate being surrounded by a terrain hazard.

[echo meteor]

holding good choke point or area with hazard at the right place is great

[humble cairn]

True

[echo meteor]

enemy can’t just walk up and melee the higher and sit there in the goop

[humble cairn]

Anyway yes, Grease is a good spell.

[echo meteor]

oh, also… i did realize that “talking” can solve so much of your problems in d&d

it can turn a 2-3 hour combat grind into a 30 minute one with a couple persuasion rolls

[ocean jolt]

hi guys, I'm from Russia. Can you help me understand this? Please send me a private message.

[minor cargo]

Privet (I think I get in trouble if I use Cyrillic characters lol). This is an English only server but a lot of people can give you a hand! We have a channel for new people: #dnd-newcomers

Feel free to ask a few questions there! Some people might also provide links to help.

[tribal fjord]

*private

[echo meteor]

too bad my wizard build dumps charisma/strength 😭

he can’t talk for shiz

[raven mist]

hi friends

[loud tendon]

Technically words in other languages typed with English characters would also count, because we still have to remove things like Spanish or French. But will let that one slide for helpfulness. ❤️

[urban nebula]

If your DM gave you the option to-

• Gain resistance to physical damage (pierce/slash/bludgeon)
• but lose -25% max health.

Would you take it?

[echo meteor]

btw, bards are great at talking :/

[tribal fjord]

Yeah cuz I'ma monk

[echo meteor]

hellz no

wait… maybe

[worn lagoon]

okay...?

[loud tendon]

Tempting but no.. because all the other damage types will hit my now reduced health pool at full power.

[echo meteor]

you can just use absorb elements

[worn lagoon]

depends on the campaign, how many physical attacks have I faced up to this point? and do I have access to a dependable source of temp HP?

[loud tendon]

Only if I am a spell caster with that spell on my list, willing to burn a 1st level spell slot and have a reaction. Multiple people attacking with different elements wouldn't save me

[hidden spindle]

Yes. That's a positive and steps all over Barbarian Rage. I can reflavor it as Rage

-# '14 Necromancy Wizard chuckling somewhere...

[worn lagoon]

If I have low health and happen to have armor of agathys I might favor it

[echo meteor]

well, you can always buy your way out of the problem with $$$ spell scrolls of absorb elements xD

[loud tendon]

That doesn't make any sense.

[outer wraith]

i loveeee orcs

[worn lagoon]

can you scrollcast reaction spells evenù

[echo meteor]

well, u don’t use spellslots

[outer wraith]

don't let them silence you

[echo meteor]

i cast silence on u

[loud tendon]

@echo meteor Also, its my answer/opinion on the question.. why are you trying so hard to argue it?
For me, the juice isnt worth rhe squeeze

[echo meteor]

i’m commenting on it :/

[loud tendon]

No gifs or images permitted. Be nice to themberchaud

[outer wraith]

huzzah

[echo meteor]

silence is such a good spell

[urban nebula]

@tribal fjord @echo meteor @loud tendon @hidden spindle

The divisiveness is what I was looking for.

In my campaign, as the players encounter more humanoid monsters capable of some modicum of intelligence and social interactions, I grow the list of available "race" choices with SOME of those humanoid monsters should a character die.

One of the enemies I introduced to the player are "Palikobolds", which have low health but are resistant to physical damage. - I need ti work out the kinks a bit (like what I can do to mske it worth with Barbarians.) And im also considering just reducing the size of their hit-die by one, instead of the dkat 25% reduction.

[tribal fjord]

No idea I just started dnd

[humble cairn]

This seems unnecessary, why not just use kobolds, they are a playable species.

[humble cairn]

Are you going to be commenting on every spell individually? If so, what do you think of Find Traps?

[echo meteor]

a waste of a spell slot

[ocean jolt]

Hi guys, could you help me find a team for DND (preferably Russian)? write in private messages

[rotund abyss]

For my upcoming campaign I initially wanted there to be two main NPCs that would give out quests to the players. I doubt we'll ever go above six sessions though, so I feel like I'd either have to cut the amount of quests, or have only one NPC with one questline

[humble cairn]

Go on 🙂

[echo meteor]

u can use silence to counter “false hydra” though

[silk hare]

dont tell people on the internet your age

[ocean jolt]

I'm 11

[echo meteor]

it feels useless

[humble cairn]

I agree with you, but tell me why you think so?

[ocean jolt]

I said this so that it would be clear whether you are playing with a child or an adult.

[silk hare]

still, not a good ide aoverall

[echo meteor]

cause there’s better spells

you just roll perception and u detect it for free

[humble cairn]

It's against the rules of this server to share exact age.

[humble cairn]

Right, of course. What makes it so bad, though?

[echo meteor]

i said it

[humble cairn]

The issue I have with Find Traps is that it doesn't tell you very much information that is actually useful. It doesn't even help you actually find any traps.

It tells you there are traps somewhere in the area, but not where.

[echo meteor]

if there’s a trap, you’ll be told to roll perception

[humble cairn]

Or perhaps use your passive perception.

[limber trail]

not necessarily

your passive perception maybe but you might not be told to roll perception

[echo meteor]

if you’re standing next to a trap, dm will tell you to roll perceive

[humble cairn]

There would be value in a trap detecting spell, I think, beyond things that the Perception or Investigation skills can tell you, but Find Traps does not actually do much that's valuable.

[limber trail]

that is not necessarily true

[echo meteor]

depends on how you b advancing through the dungeon

[limber trail]

you might not always be told to roll a perception check

[humble cairn]

If you take the Search Action, your DM might tell you to roll Perception.

[limber trail]

mhm

[silk hare]

yup

[limber trail]

For me as a DM, if players want to roll perception, that's in their hands, I'm rarely gonna prompt them to

[echo meteor]

don’t most players do that regardless?

[silk hare]

?????

[echo meteor]

to look around the room

they don’t be given a room and don’t look/search it

[humble cairn]

Players aren't supposed to call for Skill rolls. They describe their actions and the DM decides whether it calls for a Skill roll.

[echo meteor]

the heck? ive asked for insight checks ALL THE TIME

[silk hare]

okay, still not how it usually works/ is supposed to work

[echo meteor]

or asked to Search for traps, levers, secret areas

[humble cairn]

Which is technically not how you're supposed to do it, as a player.

[humble cairn]

Yes, this you can do. That's the Search Action.

[echo meteor]

yeah? you can also roll insight

[limber trail]

To me the difference is when a player calls for a roll, they're doing so out of genuine blind knowledge. They don't know what's out there, they're rolling because there might be a trap. A DM asking for a perception roll removes a lot of the tension because the DM knows that there is a trap. Even on a failure, the players know there's something to find.

[humble cairn]

"I want to roll Insight" is not a player facing button.

"I want to Search that character's motivations" is the player facing button, in which case the DM might call for an Insight roll.

[echo meteor]

all the “skills” on a character sheet is an action you can take at any given moment

is a great cheat sheet

[humble cairn]

No, technically not, though a lot of people do that.

[limber trail]

not necessarily. You don't get to "just roll persuasion", you roleplay or describe your actions and the DM decides if a persuasion roll is appropriate. Same goes for insight, perception, investigation, acrobatics, or anything else

[humble cairn]

Here, let me show you. This is the standard 5E gameplay loop according to the rules: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/playing-the-game#RhythmofPlay

[limber trail]

you might be able to ask to roll a specific check that aligns with your action but at the end of the day whether or not you roll that check or something else is up to your DM, not you

[humble cairn]

1. DM describes the scene
2. Players describe character actions
3. DM decides whether those actions call for rolls

The DM is the one who decides whether a roll is needed at all, and what kind of roll. Players do not call for Skill rolls.

[echo meteor]

its pretty straight forward though, i want to be “stealthy”

i want to “investigate” this room

i want to “persuade” this person to do x

i want to “deceive” this person

[humble cairn]

The Skills on your sheet are metagame terms.

[humble cairn]

There are specific Actions for all of those: Hide, Search, Influence, Influence.

[echo meteor]

and they pretty much align with actions you can take at any given moment

[echo meteor]

yeah, that’s what in meant, each skill has an action attached to it

[silk hare]

yet they are distinct in the way the game is played and how the rules were written

[humble cairn]

And those Actions are player facing buttons, not the Skills themselves.

[silk hare]

its not what you said tho

[echo meteor]

you can say “i want to roll history, to figure out who is this person?”

[lost ice]

Skills are obvious enough things that calling them exclusively meta knowledge is overreaching
If a character trained and studied pickpocketing all their life they have the knowledge that Sleight of Hand is a skill they're proficient in, not just the player

and they can ask for using that sleight of hand check to maneuver an object carefully

[limber trail]

Depending on the roll you might not need to roll history - you might not need a roll at all, or religion or arcana might be more appropriate. You also might not just know. It's easier to ask the DM if you know who this person is, and have them prompt a roll.

[echo meteor]

dude, you can say “i want to persuade this person of x” then figure out wtf to say afterwards

to persuade them

[limber trail]

I have not played any campaigns that work like this for social persuasion/deception/intimidation checks especially

[echo meteor]

you can say “i want to deceive this person” without knowing exactly how

[lost ice]

yeah, you don't have to be a charismatic/ deceitful player for your character to be succesfully deceitful

[echo meteor]

if you are playing a charismatic character, but you yourself aren’t very charismatic… i guess it can’t play that character??

[lost ice]

"barbarian player, please give me 40 push ups to prove you can break that door"

[echo meteor]

because you dont know exactly what to say, but your 20 charisma character would

[worn lagoon]

yeah sure

[lost ice]

and if the player comes up with a good argument or a lie just don't roll, don't punish their cleverness because their character has Cha 8

[worn lagoon]

i will go easier on somebody struggling to speak, but they need to come up with something to say

last time i did a cha check as a player, my threats were so good and so fitting for my character that dm awarded me advantage on this roll and inspiration to use later

but i had ample time to think

i am otherwise not great at talking

[limber trail]

You don't need to give a charisma 20 check irl but it's pretty expected with most groups I play that if you want to persuade a character of something, you need to say something to indicate what you're trying to do

[echo meteor]

sure, so only people with actual charisma can play a character with charisma right?

[echo meteor]

yeah, you can say… i want to lie to him. make him think that i am x and not y

[worn lagoon]

being able to come up with something, anything to say is a much lower bar

[echo meteor]

you can even have a meta game discussion on what to say

[echo meteor]

truee

[lost ice]

I'd say you don't have to be a pro pocker player but you have to prove you're looking at the situation strategically and logically just like in another encounter

[worn lagoon]

this wouldn't fly with me

[exotic sinew]

What is the difference between the dual welder feat and making an attack with a nick weapon?

[echo meteor]

so you need to have charisma to play charismatic characters, got it

🤣

[lost ice]

dual wielder takes your bonus action while nick doesn't, dual wielder attack doesnt have to be made with a light weapon and nick+dual wielder stack together

[worn lagoon]

you need to put a little bit of goddamn effort to rp to play an rp game

[lost ice]

and some people prefer and specialize more in combat or note taking not rp

[echo meteor]

you can talk with the table and discuss what might be a good response, but if you’re goal is to deceive you should be able to roll for it

[worn lagoon]

you will roll after i evaluate how well crafted your lie is

if it's a clever lie, advantage for you

[lost ice]

that's a crazy red flag

[worn lagoon]

it's really not

[lost ice]

pickle put it best

[urban nebula]

@humble cairn because it's my setting, and I wanted to:
#dnd-arts-and-crafts message

I like to combine DnD concept with my own original concepts or concepts from other titles/franchrs... like Palicos from Monster Hunter. I know one of my players is a massive Monster Hunter fan.

Plus the players have thoroughly enjoyed the palikobold encounter/quest

[urban nebula]

In response to this

[exotic sinew]

Interesting I keep reading them and idk my dumb brain with a -5 to intelligence keeps reading it as the exact same thing lol 😂

[silk hare]

having your players actually say out loud what they are going to do in character even if its just " I threaten his and his next of kin if he doesnt give us the keys" is better than just saying "I want to roll intimidation"

[humble cairn]

In my current campaign I'm playing a Beast Master and the DM is using Heliana's Guide, which is very much something like Monster Hunter. My Bastion attendants are basically palicos.

[silk hare]

with no more context

[hidden spindle]

Ah. Its a species/racial feature. I thought of it as a Boon or Blessing

That changes it up a little. Very nice still.

[limber trail]

I don't think it really is at all. I think it's totally reasonable to put some consideration to the RP. Of course you don't need to put huge amounts of sway on it. Most middling-good persuasion attempts will have a DC 15 or so. But, if you put effort and narrate out how you construct a lie that's effective and based on real truths, or use a really compelling argument for persuasion, then yeah sure it's completely valid to lower the DC appropriately.

[lost ice]

I don't believe anyone is proposing allowing "i want to roll x, the end"

[silk hare]

bc if u dont have your players put ANY effort into RP, it just devolves into : "I press the persuasion button!, what you want me to actually be part of the story? nah I just said I persuade him let me roll dfice"

[worn lagoon]

pickle literally was, scroll up

[silk hare]

that is quite literally the conversation yall had up there

[urban nebula]

Who doesn't love Palicos

[humble cairn]

If a player has a hard time coming up with how their character approaches something, I think it's okay to let the rest of the table help them with suggestions.

[lost ice]

I believe Pickle proposed "i want to deceit a peson that I'm someone else", that is quite more elaborate than " i want to roll deception"

[urban nebula]

Its just a way to excite the players a little bit after the trauma of losing their chatacter - look at all of these shiny new toys in the toybox to pick from!

[echo meteor]

well, i might want to do something… not exactly sure how i would do it, so i would say it… THEN have a META talk about what exactly to say

[silk hare]

no, I want to try to talk them into it by suggesting a bribe, would be rp

them rephrasing what the skill is called is not RP

[echo meteor]

but still be rolling 2 do it

[worn lagoon]

i have no problems with that lol

[silk hare]

incorrect, you would be rolling 2 do it if your dm allows u to do so, and after they tell you WHAT you would roll for

[echo meteor]

so you would talk with ppl in the table

[silk hare]

bc u might no actually be rolling persuasion, but rather initiative

[echo meteor]

you act like the dm can ask you to roll medicine for your stealth checks

[worn lagoon]

I would adjust the DC or advantage/disadv based on what you say, so the roll would wait

[lost ice]

but having to literally come up with the complete lie that satisifies the dm and then being allowed to roll is where i call it quits

[silk hare]

that is not what anyone discussed, we just said more then "I do trigger" is the bare minimum

[echo meteor]

that’s what i said though

[silk hare]

aka actually engage with the world and not just sit in the back like a video game and trigger abilities

[lost ice]

this what Evren has wrote, scroll up

[silk hare]

" I press E to dash", is not the same as "I would like to go and outrun them by doing X"

[echo meteor]

i say i wanna deceive the person then roll for it

[humble cairn]

And again, the way the game is designed to work is that the DM describes the scene and then the players describe their character's actions. "I use Persuasion" is .. not really a description of their actions, it's pointing at a metagame thing, which is the Skill on the character sheet: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/playing-the-game#RhythmofPlay

[silk hare]

no, you said "I intimidate them" which roughly translates to "I do trigger"

[lost ice]

you can say "i dash quicker with my cunning action"

[echo meteor]

i use persuasion is fine though??

[lost ice]

you don't have to elaborate with some parkour shenanigans

[silk hare]

yeah sure, thats fine and our entire point, they keep saying that "I roll dex" is enough in a scenario like this

[exotic sinew]

As you are all having a passionate conversation right now I think I will just ask my dm to explain it in dumb dumb terms on Saturday at our session

[humble cairn]

Ehhh ... I mean a lot of people do it.

[silk hare]

sry what exactly

[worn lagoon]

the bare minimum I expect for you lying that you didn't eat the bread on the table is "No, I didn't". you get the vanilla dc roll.

if you come up with "Oh, bread actually makes me very sick so I haven't eaten any in years", i'll lower the dc or give you advantage if you were never spotted eating bread

if you say "I lie to him", I will follow up with "okay, how do you lie to him"- this one will annoy me

[lost ice]

I recommend asking the rules channel, great people for explanations are there

[silk hare]

its fine we can multitask lol

[exotic sinew]

Alright will do o7

[humble cairn]

Better to ask your question than waiting for a break in the conversation, discord conversations are never ending and everyone is always interrupting everyone else.

[echo meteor]

dual wielder lets u use 2 weapons that you normally can’t dual wield

[lost ice]

that's 2014

[echo meteor]

okay lemme look up dual wielding

wtf, so they got rid of the ability to dual wield light?

without the feat?

[humble cairn]

If you have Nick Mastery, you can use that Nick attack as part of your Action, freeing up yor Bonus Action to then use the Dual Wielder attack, which can be with a non Light weapon. If you do not have Nick Mastery you would have to choose to use your Bonus Action for either the Light weapon attack or the Dual Wielder Attack.

[valid geyser]

no

two-weapon fighting is a listed action

[rough basalt]

Basically if you were to use 2024 it'd be like Longsword + Scimitar or Dagger and you get 3 attacks at level 4

[lost ice]

to get 3 attacks you'd have to wield 2 light weapons unless you juggle them for a longsword for the BA attack

[echo meteor]

wat

Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property

that’s what 2 handed weapons let you do already

[humble cairn]

Oh boy

[lost ice]

unless you use nick and have that BA freed up so you combine them

[echo meteor]

you make an attack and you can use the bonus action to attack with offhand

[humble cairn]

2 Handed Weapons are a different thing entirely.

Okay chat, we're not doing a good job of explaining this is a simple manner.

[lost ice]

I think they meant wielding 2 weapons

[humble cairn]

Please don't try and explain someone else's mistake, it just muddies the waters even more.

[echo meteor]

yeah, why is the feat saying something u could always do?

did they remove the ability?

[humble cairn]

No, you are misunderstanding.

[echo meteor]

that’s what i meant though?

[lost ice]

because you don't use your BA for the extra attack form the Light property with NIck mastery

[silk hare]

okay, since you always mean sth thats different than what you wrote, how about we think about what we write before sending it and correcting it in retrospect

[echo meteor]

you used to be able to

[humble cairn]

Two Handed Weapons are an entirely different thing than Light Weapons, and it's super confusing to use that term in this explanation.

[echo meteor]

i meant weapons in two hands

[limber trail]

The feat lets you make the second attack with any weapon wielded in one hand, whereas normally it needs to be a light weapon

[echo meteor]

you have weapons in two of your hand

[valid geyser]

the 2024 dual wielder feat did not reprint the non-light weapon thing

[echo meteor]

no, before… you can only dual wield with light weapons,

you got around that restriction by using the feat

Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property

says you can only use light weapons for bonus attack

[rough basalt]

In 2024, the Nick mastery let's you attack with a light weapon that has the weapon as part of your 1 attack once per turn instead of using a BA for it.
The Dual Wielder feat let's you attack additionally as a bonus action on top of using the Nick mastery offhand attack as long as it's NOT the weapon used for Nick and doesn't have the Two Handed property.

[exotic sinew]

Alright my confusion is the wording.

I was told yesterday how to play Ranger in combats which was completely different to how I first thought of rangers. But now I am confused on the difference between nick and dual wielder.

Nick: When you make the extra attack of the light property, you can make it as part of the attack action instead of as a Bonus action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn

Dual Wielder: When you take the attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the light property, you can make one extra attack as a bonus action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attacks damage unless the damage is negative.

But then there is the light property: When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a bonus action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attacks damage unless that modifier is negative.

So my thing is if I am using a short sword with vex and a scimitar with nick is there any point of even taking the dual wielder feat cause they all sound the same to me

[rough basalt]

No that's for the initial attack

[valid geyser]

yeah because of nick making dual wielding good there isnt much of a reason to do TWF with a non nick weapon

[lost ice]

in 2014 you attack with your shortsword as an attack action and then attack with your dagger with bonus action
in 2024 you attack with your shortsword as an attack action and as part of the same action you attack with your dagger, no extra attack feature required, just weapon mastery with daggers, your BA is unused
then additionaly you learn dual wielder so you attack with your shortsword as an attack action and as part of the same action you attack with your dagger and then you attack with your short sword again as a BA from Dual wielder

[limber trail]

Read the feat and then read what I said

[echo meteor]

so, you attack 4 times?

that’s a nerf

[lost ice]

3 at 4th level