dnd-discussion

[halcyon bison]

No, there's lots of small fey and they are all friends

[worn lagoon]

#dnd-discussion message

[sour cave]

Didn’t know that one

[scenic zinc]

Two, a hundred, or thousands of members of a species saying a thing doesn't make it common.

[woven flint]

Dwarves have immunity to small Evil because they're Medium sized

[turbid vessel]

i hate to be the one to tell you that a lot of fey are enemies in dnd 😭

[scenic zinc]

It is a belief some have. That's all you can say.

[woven flint]

Heresy!

[halcyon bison]

Nuh uh, they're all friends :)
You should trust the fey

[sour cave]

Fey are just doing a little bit of trolling

[turbid vessel]

last time i trusted a fey i lost a pronoun
now i only have six left

[sour cave]

If you get mad, that’s on you. Definitely something they would say

[woven flint]

Not all Fiends are actively Malicious, there's actually this one Fiendish Shopkeeper in Sigil that just.. vibes.

[scenic zinc]

Trolls are in fact fey :v

-# or are they giants? Who cares.

[minor cargo]

Actually the more I think about this, the more I like this idea for a campaign.

Transporting redistributed wealth to minority communities - and then rutting out the roots of corruption (knowing trauma can run deep). The players are here to first expose generational trauma, then to lay down the groundwork so it can be healed over.

[worn lagoon]

Of course there are outliers. It's just what their common belief system attempts to ingrain in many of them.

[sour cave]

Firbolgs not being fey or giants makes me mad

[woven flint]

Fiends can be friends! They're literally Friend without the R

[scenic zinc]

My point is that you're stating it's a commonality because it's written in a book... that's just not the case. That's not how that works.

[woven flint]

Me trying to brainwash the lovely folk of this server into believing Julbilex won't devour their bones and that he's actually pretty chill

[sour cave]

Don’t have bones

He’s cool with you then

[woven flint]

I don't think he cares, he just wants to watch things rot and boil alive in acid lol

[scenic zinc]

It's a quote. From one gith.

[woven flint]

I mean...
Julbilex loves everyone! He's so friendly and his domains are THE cleanest!

[scenic zinc]

You can run with that quote if you want and generalize it if you wish.

But that's a choice you're making.

[halcyon bison]

Jubilex is big blob friend :D

[sour cave]

I actually am guilty of dnd misinformation. My first couple games I only ever fought goblins and then we met one in a tavern in another game and I was confused

[woven flint]

Exactly!

[halcyon bison]

It's not its fault it's made of skin melting acid, it just wants hugs

[woven flint]

Fun Fact:
The God of Goblins killed most of the other Deities in the Goblin pantheon out of Paranoia and Greed lol

[minor cargo]

I have a Jubilex NPC in my game. They ate an entire convent and then, with their memories, decided to commit their life to religion and faith.

They now help the players whenever they need answers about religions lol.

[worn lagoon]

i'm not entirely dependent on that quote. i just stopped enjoying this conversation a while back to bring more generalized proof.

[woven flint]

That's so swag

I hope they're doing well

The covenant lives on through the slimy critter!

[worn lagoon]

mordekainen's tome of foes explicitly generalizes that githyanki are generally proud, xenophobic and tend to hold other races in contempt.

[turbid vessel]

Tome of Foes is a lil outdated vs Monsters of the Multiverse

[woven flint]

Mordekainen is a fraud

[scenic zinc]

That book as well as volos are written from an in character perspective on those things.

[woven flint]

Trust a real Wizard
Like Bigby

[minor cargo]

Mordekainen’s house of lies.

[halcyon bison]

I don't know anything about mordekainen but I did accidentally make a character that looked like him

[scenic zinc]

That's not a definitive statement of fact being made about those species.

[turbid vessel]

only wizard i trust is my favorite gay icon Merlin

[woven flint]

Otiluke is also acceptable, methinks

[worn lagoon]

you can't make a definitive statement when you are generalizing. that's not a thing.

[woven flint]

Melf, Otiluke and Bigby are the cool wizards

[turbid vessel]

ain't that the dudebro with the sphere

[woven flint]

Melfs name is literally Male Elf lol

[halcyon bison]

I like the guy named Hadar who made some warlock spells, he seems cool :)

[scenic zinc]

That, I'm afraid, is my point.

[woven flint]

Hadar is an Elder Evil, not a person lol

[halcyon bison]

Elder evils are people too!

[worn lagoon]

then why on earth are we arguing about this

[woven flint]

WELL....

[timber turtle]

would king arthur be a hexblade palladin?

[woven flint]

King Arthur would probably be a Paladin

[worn lagoon]

i've never suggested that githyanki are ethnically predisposed to xenophobia, it's just a common observation among onlookers.

[pallid oracle]

can an administrator edit my community post? id like to add 18+ Only.

[scenic zinc]

Because you're trying to argue gith are racist and I'm telling you they're not defined as such in anything outside in character commentary.

[tulip widget]

So yall still talking about this

[stoic obsidian]

I wonder how scary a boss would be with all class abilities

[pallid oracle]

or is there a mod mail that I could potentially use? I dont see any?

[tulip widget]

It would be like looking at a nightmare you made

Holenlofi, you have created the strongest entity in all of dnd

[stoic obsidian]

I add in legendary actions, and some subclasses

Now fight the abomination named Mr.MC

Pffffft

[loud tendon]

If you need a moderator ask to speak with us in #moderator-support and we will open a private thread.

[pallid oracle]

thank you! made a post just now.

[woven flint]

Its finally waterdeeping time

The crews back together again 🧐

[halcyon bison]

Horray :D
have fun

[woven flint]

We've got
Artanza, Tortle Knowledge Cleric (Me :3)
Ahan, Human Spellfire Sorcerer
Toby, Tabaxi Wordtree Barbarian
Imos, Saytr Theif Rogue
Hokrun, Orc Kensei Monk

We live in a place called Trollskull Manor and there was a Poltergiest there, but we managed to befriend it after we fixed up its home and reopened its bar

[wanton sorrel]

does that bar have lots of mix brew?

[woven flint]

Yeah! we haven't come up with any names just yet

We have a rival tavern called Prumes Brews lmao

[wanton sorrel]

pretty cool name though.

[woven flint]

Frewns Brews*

We just call our place the Trollskull Pub

[fast latch]

Does having a negative Dex modified subtract from your AC if you aren’t wearing any armor?

[wanton sorrel]

maybe?

[lean wigeon]

yes

[halcyon bison]

Goodnight peoples

[potent mountain]

Goodnight

Welp im sure I'll find a campaign

Soon...

[glass granite]

Tomorrow!

[potent mountain]

Hopefully

Please dms hire me 💰 🤑 💸

Im the best fighter to ever live trust

[pallid oracle]

so I have a character in my campaign im building that is a big bad for the party to face in a certain quest they can take. the quest reward is crazy strong, one magical tattoo that has a one a day magical effect and they can get any effect (within reason)

well the guy theyre fighting is really strong. he also has magical tattoos and an trait that allows him to use his tattoos at the start of combat. which is a darkness/magical eyesight combo and his third being used as a warcaster once a day effect. hes also equipped with shatter which could be really tough for 4 level 2s to deal with and a shadow hound on his side. if he gets the players low enough, he will use the sleep spell and put the entire party asleep. disarming them and locking them up for experiments. TTPK moment. im debating if this encounter is too tough. it seems like it but it also feels like it could be incredibly easy to deal with too.

[glass granite]

Sleep is a poor man’s Power Work Kill. That being said, a poor man’s power word kill is terrifying for this level. It does seem a tad difficult to me, personally.

[pallid oracle]

I think im better off thinking of a different strategy for the boss. im not sure. id really like to playtest it just to see how ridiculous it would be.

I think if I get rid of the warcaster thing it should be fine.

[potent mountain]

I may be dumb but is there a difference between TPK and TTPK

[pallid oracle]

as long as he gets his and loses his concentration ONCE hes cooked

[potent mountain]

Not to disregard your statement, i will give my input

[pallid oracle]

yeah for sure let me hear it

[potent mountain]

Whoa whoa whoa 4 levels 2's

I thought this was like a bossfight for level 5s

Way to strong man, relax

[potent mountain]

I mean what are the 4 level 2s in question

[pallid oracle]

no clue yet.

[pallid oracle]

what? no way. that would be an absolute slaughter, that wouldnt even be trivial.

[formal dove]

hi

[pallid oracle]

i wish i could just post the NPC sheet here

[glass granite]

My issue is partially sleep, and partially the fact that every attack against him will be at disadvantage, while all attacks he make will be at advantage

Which is rough for level 2

[pallid oracle]

yeah. they need to knock his concentration like immediately and then the fight would be a lot more easier. he doesnt have too many attacks outside of firebolt to take advantage of his advantage. but one unlucky shatter on the team and a sleep spell on the next turn can be incredibly dangerous if the rolls dont go in the parties favor. he does only have 15 AC tho, hes not impossible to hit by any means.

[potent mountain]

If say give him like a weakness or something

You could do the classic "as he powers up, the gem nodes near him glow"
Or
"Your attack has little to no effect, but a giant crystal nearby flickers on impact"

[pallid oracle]

You know heres an idea, what if the shadow mastif was the hound doing the darkness when it's invisible, but when it attacks the darkness goes down. giving them an opportunity to hit him, so its a balance and strategy of when the darkness goes down and when it doesnt. players could even ready their actions to do big damage.

[potent mountain]

And orrr its weakness was light

[ornate hearth]

Yo how do you figure out the stats for your character Im just slightly confused

[pallid oracle]

the shadow mastifs weakness is already light

[potent mountain]

#dnd-newcomers

[ornate hearth]

It didn’t really help ngl

I checked it already btw

[potent mountain]

You could throw in a Lantern on the battlefield or something

Make it so it can get blinded or something

[potent mountain]

Go to dnd beyond

Go to make a character

They walk you through it

[ornate hearth]

Ok then

[harsh hinge]

?tag new abilities

[cosmic roost]

Abilities

All creatures have six abilities that measure physical and mental characteristics: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma.

Each ability has a score from 1 to 20, which represents the magnitude of an ability. Each ability also has a modifier from -5 to +5, derived from its score. Add the modifier when you make a D20 Test with the corresponding ability or when a rule asks you to do so.

Determine your ability scores by using one of the following three methods. Your DM might prefer you to use a particular one.

• Standard Array. Use the following six scores for your abilities: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.
• Random Generation. Roll four d6s and record the total of the highest three dice. Do this five more times, so you have six numbers.
• Point Cost. You have 27 points to spend on your ability scores. The cost of each score is shown on the Ability Score Point Costs table. For example, a score of 14 costs 7 of your 27 points.

After assigning your ability scores, adjust them according to your background. Finally, determine your ability modifiers using the Ability Scores and Modifiers table. Write the modifier next to each of your scores.

[empty thicket]

Random is chaotic from all of them.
You can get either the worst rolls and get literally 4 in one stat
Get normals rolls, pretty balanced
Or literally be a god newborn
Funny honestly, but dangerous

[cobalt owl]

You can get 3 in 1 stat

[empty thicket]

Yep, that is the chaotic part, you can get 3 or 18

[cobalt owl]

I tend to not roll stats

Mainly because I don't feel like dealing with or having to account for a worthless array

[empty thicket]

its funny, but its understandable that people like Standard or point buy, one make you choice a dump stat and another can let you balance it in the way you like it

[cobalt owl]

The choice is always imperative to me

It's also easier to balance when everyone is mostly equalized instead of Perseus andTimmy mcgoober being in the same party

[empty thicket]

true, some Dms give you at least 2 or 3 rolls of stats and then you pick up whatever you want from the 3 drafts.
And while is tempting picking the highest one, its understandable to pick the one that is more balanced with the team.

[cobalt owl]

I mean at that point they may as well be handed a custom point buy set

I guess I just don't get it

[empty thicket]

welp, giving X number of rolls is for dont just fell in the luck of it.
You can think it like an inspiration for the stats
But make it like that help for either get all the team some close stats, if all have lets say 70 points or around, 69 and another 72
but one stat is literally giga bad, like a 6 and the others op, my math might be wrong now but you get hte point

sometimes think less is better

[cobalt owl]

Yeah I still don't get it.

[violet basin]

standard aray should be 17/15/12/12/10/9

[hoary totem]

Just let me clear up some stuff regarding warlocks: Undead is what you get if you make a pact with Yuyuko Saigyouji. Undying (if you're homebrew buffing it) is what you get if you make a pact with Eirin Yagokoro

[violet basin]

who and who?

[hoary totem]

yuyuko and eirin are both touhou characters. yuyuko is the ghost princess of touhou's ghost world, eirin yagokoro is an immortal lunarian

[violet basin]

who and who

[plush narwhal]

Hey everyone! I’m a bit new to D&D, I’ve been in a few campaigns before for fun, but now I’m like really interested in it as like a big thing. I was wondering what some recommendations for spells when it comes to lvl 1 sorcerers would be? :3

[violet basin]

shield, silvery barbs, magic missiles, sleep

silent image also good

if you DONT have someone else with Detect Magic, then Detect Magic also. But hopefully, someone else has it, or even better has it as a Ritual casting option.

[hoary totem]

m a g i c m i s s i l e

[hoary totem]

silvery barbs, shield, and most importantly MAGE ARMOUR

[violet basin]

mage armor is overrated

use your party for your armor

[hoary totem]

ok to be fair my group which is still looking for a dm has everyone squishy except the paladin and mayyybe the shepherd druid

everyone is a caster except the rogue who still hasn't decided between phantom and arcane trickster

[violet basin]

like i said, use your party for your armor

doesnt matter WHAT your party is

If there is a bear chasing you
trip your friend(s)

D&D isnt supposed to be an egalitarian utopia idea

it is a cutthroat, backstabbing, side-switching, flip-flopping game of thrones

[plush narwhal]

Thank you guys for the recs!

[formal dove]

hello i am intrested in playing a warforged barbarian but i cant find anything about warforged in the players handbook please help

[blissful ibex]

• Absorb Elements
• Chromatic Orb
• Detect Magic (at least one person in the party needs to have it so it might as well be you c:)
• Fog Cloud (incredibly underrated)
• Mage Armor
• Shield
• Tasha's Caustic Brew (actually fairly solid sustained AoE spell early game)
• Witch Bolt (good single target concentration damage spell, no save for turns 2~10, just the inital damage)

[violet basin]

witch bolt is just bad

[blissful ibex]

bonus action for 1d12 lightning damage with no save for up to 10 rounds isn't terrible

[humble cairn]

If all the players agree to this, sure. But if not, then this is a game foul.

[blissful ibex]

biggest issue with it is you can't move it

[humble cairn]

Plenty of tables play with the social contract that everyone should be playing on the same side and not betray each other like that.

[blissful ibex]

and you're not likely to run into a 1 big guy combat at early levels

[blissful ibex]

A backliner should use their Martial party members as an anchor to establish a reletively safe pocket and otherwise be making ample use of cover when available in addition to staying somewhat near your front liners to offer meutral support

[jovial shadow]

When you go up in levels does the Witch Bolt bonus damage 1d12 also scale, or is it just 1d12?

[violet basin]

the spell says what it does

[blissful ibex]

this is a table issue and is liable to at minimum end up with you getting a talking to by the DM

[hoary totem]

Witch bolt actually kkind of sucks ass

[humble cairn]

Full casters have access to the biggest toolkit in the game, which makes spell choice probably one of the more complex character building exercises in D&D. My guidelines are usually this:

• At least one combat Cantrip
• At least one Utility (non-combat solution) Cantrip
• A handful of powerful Concentration spells targeting more than one enemy Saving Throw
• At least one powerful Concentration Support spell
• A handful of useful non-Concentration spells that you can apply after you get your Concentration spell up (An Attack spell and various defense spells like Shield and Absorb Elements)
  This way you have an answer to a lot of situations you may face. This may not all be possible at level 1, but after a few levels a full caster wants to be a Swiss Army Knife of spells to solve any problem the group may face.

[formal dove]

hello i am intrested in playing a warforged barbarian but i cant find anything about warforged in the players handbook please help

[blissful ibex]

apparently not, because I;m not following whatever it is you're implying

[violet basin]

thats on you

[blissful ibex]

anyway, it scales with higer spell slots being used to cast it; but like they said, most of the other options are better picks for the slot

[violet basin]

also subclass options

[hoary totem]

Ophidimancer, Meabhy and I clearly didn't get the message then

[blissful ibex]

that would be helpful, yes; it's very difficult to read tone over text

[hoary totem]

Warforged isn't in the player's handbook : (

[violet basin]

What about the Warforged are you interested in?

Information on it is available online.

[blissful ibex]

you'll find the most recent printing of warforged in the Eberron: Forge of the Artificer expansion ruleset

[formal dove]

i am making a certain character that would go good with the idea of a robot

[violet basin]

Well, a Warforged is a 'robot' in the respect that it is a construct. there is also the autognome, and maybe others.

I've seen people play Warforged barbarains, it can work. its intergrated defense really helps there

[formal dove]

hes supposed to be a fish thats controlling a robot body

[ionic barn]

thats fun!

[humble cairn]

Creative!

[formal dove]

almost like krang from tmnt

[hoary totem]

interesting! but like with all characters, you're going to need to need a backstory and lore to make your character fleshed out and not just a gimmick

[patent atlas]

Henlo beautiful people ❤️

[formal dove]

yeah, its not completely finished but my idea was that the wizard in our party turned me into a fish

[woven flint]

Look in a mirror 😎

[patent atlas]

That sounds amazing tbh lol I picture Klaus from American Dad xD

[patent atlas]

Dawwwh shucks 👉 👈 you charming devil you!

[formal dove]

lol

[woven flint]

I'm such a devil

Boo! Spooky Tokii!!!!!

[empty thicket]

wait, could flavor a Construct like a living armor? im thinking of doing a character that is like that and might make some sort of mechanic that for upgrading HP it should need to put more armor or upgrade it in some way

[prime basin]

You could, but the warforged also is meant to have some sort of liquid/blood underneath the armor

obviously that is just flavor text and you could change that since it doesn’t matter much, but baseline you are meant to be something that has been altered to become a sort of robot/construct thing

[potent mountain]

Hey chat

[prime basin]

sup

[potent mountain]

A campaign will accept me soon trust

[wanton sorrel]

hello

[empty thicket]

was thinking of doing just some sort of "its a magic soul crystal using the armor" , getting all the good stuff from the construct and adding things like Counterspell stop my movement and anti magic field put me in disadvantage of my attacks//actions

so i get some sort of "balance" on it

[vale sage]

hello

[empty thicket]

Nice!!! what you going on it buddy?

[vale sage]

im new to dnd so ya

[empty thicket]

that is okey, everyone we were new in lots of stuff, in this one you can get lots of help.
If you need any starter help #dnd-newcomers its your perfect place.

[potent mountain]

Tryna do fighter

[prime basin]

at that point you’d be creating a race of what is essentially just animated armor with special tweaks

[vale sage]

ok

[empty thicket]

kinda, i remember hearing that construct was just too op, literally dont need to sleep, eat, etc. etc. etc. and i feel it too out of balance for me, i like having things not so easy

[empty thicket]

from lvl 1? or already having to pick a subclass?

[prime basin]

not eating and sleeping isn’t op

[potent mountain]

Well i don't know how to answer that, im not in a campaign yet

But im wanting to do battlemaster

[empty thicket]

i just named a few, cant be poisoned, charmed, etc. etc.

[prime basin]

reborn don’t sleep but they still need a 4 hour long rest despite really just being undead without the actual creature type

[empty thicket]

No wait, the charmed is wrong and is resistance to poison, don’t gain Exhaustion levels from dehydration, malnutrition, or suffocation.

and cant be put to sleep

[prime basin]

well if you want to play a construct, the best balance for now is warforged…i’d probably just reflavor it for theme purposes but use the actual stats

[empty thicket]

yeah yeah, it was that the race, i just mistook the name.
A warforged being a living armor, maybe i can be a bit funny and say is a slime but stay inside of an armor and work like a warforged

The slime always fix everything

[prime basin]

well warforged can also just be made of wood and metal

Apparently i was wrong and thought it mixed creature with metal but its just organic + inorganic materials

so things like wood can be organic where as something like metal isn’t for example

[empty thicket]

Would make it fit the class, might do an artificer that is a metal warforged, same material if its any martial.
If its any caster i would make it wood and some other stuff maybe.
A warforged of wood sorcerer would be peak

[prime basin]

also warforged get everything you described minus the exhaustion stuff

[earnest birch]

So what's up my dudes

[empty thicket]

nope, im checking in 2024 and Dnd beyond, it get no exhaustion thingy

You can still take long rests, you just stay like quiet but conscious. Creepy for the party but you can do it

[woven flint]

D&D-ing Complete

I was a good Cleric and kept bless up for combat :>

[empty thicket]

Epic, guided any bolt to the enemies?

[woven flint]

Nah, people were getting bloodied too quickly for me to really even consider it

[glass granite]

Too much murder?
Or not enough murder by you?

[woven flint]

So glad we're gonna be level 5 soon so I don't have to worry too much about blessing lol

[fossil hollow]

:3

[empty thicket]

considerated a ceremoy for that +2ac?

[glass granite]

You mean shield of faith?

[fossil hollow]

i thought it was +1

[woven flint]

No, none of our characters are attracted to eachother anyway lmao
I think most would rather die than marry

[glass granite]

Oh that spell

[empty thicket]

No, marriage.

[fossil hollow]

thats +1 iirc

oh it is +2

[empty thicket]

okey, let me check one sec

"Wedding. You touch adult humanoids willing to be bonded together in marriage. For the next 7 days, each target gains a +2 bonus to AC while they are within 30 feet of each other. A creature can benefit from this rite again only if widowed."

[fossil hollow]

yee

[empty thicket]

yep, for a week, giga useful and would be epic to do like "Caribbean pirates" and marry in the middle of a big battle and give +2 ac to the party

[fossil hollow]

hour long spell, means 10 * 60 rounds

[woven flint]

Ceremony takes an Hour to cast

[fossil hollow]

thts 600 rounds

[empty thicket]

True but .... ermmm... Cool rule(?) jk jk

[woven flint]

🗿 rule of cools are typically not cool

[knotty pasture]

Dance Bard/Monk multiclass for the rule of cool, dance while punching people elegantly

[small heath]

I have a warforged fighter as a lvl 2 right now. But the approach I'm taking him is that he is doing what he can to "Go back in his roots" and feel the urge for being in dangerous situations and combat. For him, he doesn't eat or anything but he has compartments in his body to simulate those feelings.

He has a gold/coin storage in his right bicep. There's a opening in his chest to "drink" substances like potions. There is a shoot for food attached to his jaw.

[knotty pasture]

Gives me Franky vibes from one piece

[woven flint]

Literally could just do that being a Monk or a Dance Bard

[small heath]

I actually never seen or read one piece lol

[woven flint]

I don't see why a multiclass would even be needed there 😭

[knotty pasture]

But it sounds cool

[woven flint]

Multiclassing Monk is always a bad idea because Monoclasses (especially monks) are almost always stronger by themselves

[prime basin]

I said it doesn’t get the exhaustion rules you wanted but the species itself still gets resistance to poison and immunity to being poisoned, and can’t be put to sleep magically or not

[glass granite]

Counterpoint: fun is a good idea

And m’boi monk with a ranger dip was fun as heck

[small heath]

So this was brought up in my campaign on tuesday, and I want your guys's opinion:

what class would the Doctor from Dr. Who be?

[glass granite]

Oh gosh

[woven flint]

Counterpoint: A dancing Monk could literally just be a Monk without Multiclassing into Dance Bard

[small heath]

I'd argue he would be some kind of artificer

[glass granite]

That is true

[woven flint]

Just flavor it
Be an Elements Monk for that extra kick or sumn

[prime basin]

Probably a battlesmith artificer

[glass granite]

I just wanted weapon masteries

So it was between rogue and ranger

[prime basin]

alternatively they could be a really intelligent sorcerer who have multiclassed into artificer

[earnest birch]

What strategies are there for kill asmodeus

[woven flint]

Could've taken the feat that gives one of those silly
But Ranger Monk isn't bad at all

[glass granite]

Kill him until he dies

[woven flint]

Pray you don't die.
Run if you're about to die

[prime basin]

kill him in the nine hells and he dies

[glass granite]

I need my feats for the ASI’s.

[woven flint]

I believe Asmodeus is one of few who CAN'T die permanently

[prime basin]

He can

While asmodeus is a god (i think) he is still an archdevil and can be killed in the hells thus permanently killing him

[woven flint]

Still, Good Luck killing him

[prime basin]

Very true

[woven flint]

Good Luck killing an Archdevil or Demon Prince anyway in general, they stink to fight >:[
Especially Asmodeus

[prime basin]

paladin gloriously dances in divine light

If only they didn’t make the 2024 paladin smite so bad

[woven flint]

Even then, still gonna have a rough time lmao

The Archdevils and Demon Princes are purposefully incredibly hard to kill

The easiest one would be.. what's his face... there's one Archdevil whose only CR 21

[prime basin]

What? I thought I could throw asmodeus at a level 12 party?

[woven flint]

Nah, throw Tiamat at them, waaaay easier

[prime basin]

The “Aspect of Tiamat” isn’t actually Tiamat

[woven flint]

I'm aware.

I'm saying throw ACTUAL Tiamat at them

[prime basin]

Anyway tiamat should likely be harder to kill than asmodeus

[woven flint]

That's the joke

[eager marsh]

She really wouldn’t

[woven flint]

Yeah, Tiamat is Lesser Deity status atm

[prime basin]

I don’t think there was a joke…it sort’ve just seemed like you were saying asmodeus is hard to kill and harder to kill than tiamat

[knotty pasture]

Tiamat is way easier to kill tbf

[eager marsh]

He’s strictly a more powerful entity without even getting into his various true identities

[woven flint]

No, I was being silly, perhaps I should've specified, but Asmodeus actually runs an ENTIRE Realm of existence too

Of course he's a Big Dog

Also, Tiamat was only FORMERLY an Archdevil, she got demoted/removed

[knotty pasture]

Stuck between Avernus and Dis now, like a really mean border control person

[prime basin]

In a physical confrontation i’d doubt it…asmodeus would be much harder to kill in a “cosmological” sense but It would make more sense to me that he would be easier to kill

[woven flint]

Asmodeus is also GREATER Deity status.

Tiamat is a LESSER Deity.

[prime basin]

Asmodeus would also likely be physically weaker, with his main strong point being casting

[woven flint]

That doesn't mean much, he's still plenty more powerful

[prime basin]

In a cosmological sense, yes

[woven flint]

Mind you, Asmodeus has the entirety of the hells under his grasp too.

[naive cedar]

Whose the hardest fiend to kill

[woven flint]

Asmodeus

[prime basin]

Tiamat likely should also be able to have dragon friends

she is the queen of chromatic dragons after all

[woven flint]

Oh yeah, Asmodeus can also just...
Casually summon any of the other Archdevils at will in combat

[naive cedar]

Also I thought Tiamat technically can’t die

[knotty pasture]

Asmodeus literally has the six other archdukes and archduchesses lol

[eager marsh]

She certainly can just like most other gods. Mystra dies regularly

[naive cedar]

Mystra only died twice tbh I wouldn’t say regularly

[eager marsh]

Being a god doesn’t make you unkillable it just adds condictions to killing you

[prime basin]

tiamat could theoretically just summon hundreds of dragons

[woven flint]

Tiamat is a case of Overhyped, just like Lolth is

[knotty pasture]

Yeah and Asmodeus has the entire Nine Hells lol

[eager marsh]

Tiamat is literally Asmodeus’ guard dog for hell

[naive cedar]

Lolth wishes she had half of tiamats aura

[knotty pasture]

Greater and Lesser deities have a power difference that's too much to overcome

[eager marsh]

She’s stuck on Avernus

[woven flint]

This too lmao

If Tiamat stepped out of Order, Asmodeus would absolutely kick her ass

[prime basin]

Tiamat can also just work with the entire githyanki empire

[knotty pasture]

Task > Tiamat in hierarchy btw, Asmodeus vs Task would have been a closer debate

[woven flint]

Wow! More souls to feed the Fiendish armies

[prime basin]

asmodeus dies anyway because he is in hell

[woven flint]

The Gith ain't doing shit and Dragons ain't doing shit

[prime basin]

Me when the fire creature tries to damage the creature immune to fire

while also having to deal with creatures that deal cold, acid, poison, and lightning damage

[woven flint]

I don't think you understand the power discrepancy between Asmodeus and Tiamat when she's literally BINDED to be HIS Gaurd dog.

[eager marsh]

The power gap between Tiamat and Asmodeus is like a Warlock and their Patron

[prime basin]

Sure, but tiamat is also literally a crazy strong physical being

[woven flint]

Again, she's a LESSER Deity

[knotty pasture]

Past a certain point its magic that calls the shots not physical damage

Tiamat can't split the planet in half with a headbutt

[prime basin]

Alright i’m just gonna stop arguing cause this ain’t going anywhere

[knotty pasture]

Asmodeus also has a true form that's basically a gigantic floating snake if we have to go physical

[woven flint]

Worst case Scenario Tiamat gets jumped by all the Archdevils because Asmodeus can just SUMMON them

You're acting like the Ruler of hell is a pushover

[earnest birch]

Ok so what i was thinking was a campaign through the hells killing all the archdukes on the way collect their essences as you go then once you get to asmodeus using the "shards of a dark infinitude" as i would call them, now a we know asmodeus empowered all his archdukes himself giving them a piece of his infinite power through which they can maintain each of their respective infinite layers. So if you think about it a piece of infinity could mean anywhere from nothing to infinity I think however because each layer of hell is infinite asmodeus imparted an infinite piece of himself to his archdukes now all of this is important because when you face asmodeus you take each of "infinite shards" each one linked to a different infinite layer of hell you collapse every layer of hell into an into a zeroth dimension which is what you could call the big bang that birthed our universe then you take the power of 8 big bangs and use it to kill asmodeus in his true form the big snake version of asmodeus what do you think

[eager marsh]

If you want to count his real form then his identity as Ahriman makes him one of the two absolute progenitor primordials of the cosmos. His body falling from battle with his brother was what formed hell. He’s literally the same of a dozen Tiamat

His physical power far exceeds hers

[knotty pasture]

Asmodeus is probably right next to Ao in the grand scheme of things I think, especially soft power wise

[prime basin]

so true

[knotty pasture]

He has a piece in everything

[woven flint]

I wish Demogorgon was stronger

We need to bump him up to a CR 30 /half-joke

[eager marsh]

Nah demogorgon should absolutely be stronger as he needs to alternate rank with orcus who should also be powerful af

[prime basin]

Bump it up to CR 30 but if a character lights it on fire, shoots it with a bullet, uses psychic or force damage on it, or stabs it in the face with a wooden spear it dies automatically

[woven flint]

Also, uh... Asmodeus isn't physically weak either
He's got 30 Strength which is the max possible Strength stat

30 Strength, 25 Intelligence, 21 Dexterity, 30 Wisdom, 28 Constitution and 30 Charisma

[knotty pasture]

Though stats also probably don't matter at that point right

I assume all deities just have 30 in everything

[woven flint]

^

[prime basin]

Yes

[earnest birch]

Did my last message go through

[woven flint]

Nope, not all the time
Divne Beings aren't completely perfect.

Just because you're a Deity doesn't make you perfect at everything

[prime basin]

so true, they have the same strength as a tarrasque though

[earnest birch]

I feel like they aren't going through

What's slowmode?

[woven flint]

Asmodeus is perfect in
Strength, Charisma and Wisdom

[burnt valley]

Was there a reason Asmodeus fell from grace?

[prime basin]

In one corner we have Tempus, a god themed around war and “lord of battles” and his equally matched strength opponent the tarrasque

[latent crater]

Makes it so the chat isn't getting spammed every second with hundreds of messages

[prime basin]

He stopped drinking copium juice

[latent crater]

Yes, he was entailed to be lustful, not just in the carnal way, but also lustful for power, money, fame, etc

[woven flint]

Tempus could probably give Asmodeus a decent fight, as BOTH are greater deities

[knotty pasture]

Did Asmodeus even fall from grace again

[prime basin]

So could the tarrasque

[woven flint]

A Terrasque Is a mortal being

[burnt valley]

Oh shi tru

[knotty pasture]

He beat the gods in Mount Celestia in a court case and got the hells for himself

[prime basin]

he is equally matched in a strength contest

[burnt valley]

Ah alrighty

[latent crater]

A tarrasque is referred to as a multiplanar threat

[prime basin]

Same strength though…bro’s built different to have the same strength as a literal cosmic being

[woven flint]

You're aware that fights are solved by more than JUST Physical strength, right?

Intelligence also has a factor

[latent crater]

Therefore, it could be a challenger to a gods power, if it felt that the god itself was encroaching upon its ability to cause destruction and mayhem

[prime basin]

I only rolled once for my character sheet

[woven flint]

Asmodeus can.. also cast Wish :p

[prime basin]

It dnd, stats don’t make sense the higher up you go because a cosmic being dedicated to strength, battle, and war would have the same strength as a mortal multiplanar lizard thing

[burnt valley]

Nahh, even his avatar alone could deal with the damn thing

[prime basin]

Asmodeus asked, “I wish for a 32 in strength”.

The universe slowly caved in on itself and ceased to exist at the gods request

[latent crater]

Thats 5e for you, old editions like 3.5e and 3e did a great job of this

• they had levels go way above 20

[woven flint]

I don't think Asmodeus would even concern himself with Majority of fights, looking at his personality lmao

[prime basin]

Sorry im gen z not a gen x player

[latent crater]

I am also a gen z player

[woven flint]

This is HILARIOUS:

"The Devil's Greeting. Within 500 miles of his lair, an illusory version of Asmodeus (as if he has cast the Project Image spell) appears. Asmodeus attempts to communicate with any characters and decipher their intentions. If they're hostile, Asmodeus pretends to prepare himself for combat, in an effort to make the character's waste their resources."

[prime basin]

Anyway, i would like to see stats above just 30 in the case of gods but thats the point of homebrew

[burnt valley]

If ur doing that then Vecna might well be a pushover in 5e

[prime basin]

Is your favorite console the game cube?

[latent crater]

Again 3e, 3.5 and even 4e had this, the highest cr monster that I know of was infernus, dude was a cr 40 with a 40 in strength and intelligence

[prime basin]

Vecna is a pushover in 5e

[latent crater]

Just because I have been playing this for a long time doesn't mean im all about the old stuff

[prime basin]

I know

[marble lion]

Gen z can grow up with game cube actually

Its not too far out but definitely the older half

[prime basin]

the oldest gen z when the gamecube came out would be playing at 5-6 years old

[marble lion]

Tbh if i didnt have my ps2, cube would have been mine for all tha mario cart doubledash

[prime basin]

I slaughtered thousands of aliens at the ripe old age of 4

[marble lion]

Yes exactly
Now consider than not all families buy stuff when it comes out for their kids and that formative years begin early

[latent crater]

Indeed, hence why the GameCube was amazing

[marble lion]

Aaaaanyway sorry to derail

[prime basin]

Thats what this channel is for

[latent crater]

My first console was an Xbox 360, ps2, and GameCube, we had all 3

[marble lion]

Fellow lawbringer noted though

But i think theres a spacebar press missing

[latent crater]

Lawdaddy is my goat, highest rep of 86 and have all cosmetics from seasons 3 to current

[marble lion]

I hope i make a lawbringer vengeance paladin one day

Polearm master in heavy armour

[prime basin]

360 for me too, also had a wii and a sega dreamcast or genesis at one point..

[prime basin]

Daubeny!

Was more of a raider and orochi main when i played

[burnt valley]

360 was my first console too

I had kinect as well

[prime basin]

One of the things of time

[latent crater]

Kinect adventures was the goat

[burnt valley]

True, i had fun with it

[hot marlin]

That does not necessarily mean that Asmodeus is more personally powerful than Tiamat in a fight. The head warden of a prison is not the head warden because they have the physical ability to win a boxing match with every inmate

[woven flint]

Yes, but there is also literal power discrepancy between the two

[hot marlin]

They're both CR 30 though.

[woven flint]

We're not talking in just terms of Statblocks

[hot marlin]

And when you look at stats and abilities on their stat blocks it seems about equal. Even slightly to Tiamat's advantage.

Then what are we talking about?

Stat blocks are here to express what those characters are capable of doing. What else are you going to use?

[woven flint]

We're talking about ✨Lore✨
Because I don't think statblocks properly show the powers of beings they represent for the most part.

[fossil hollow]

oh hey incubus

[hot marlin]

Lore doesn't exactly give us anything that could be used though

[woven flint]

Okay, sure

[hot marlin]

Hi Ti.

And again: Which lore? The lore of both of those characters has been rewritten plenty of times.

Who is Asmodeus? A primordial serpent that fell? An angel that left Mount Celestia to combat demons? A native of hell?

[woven flint]

Yeah

[hot marlin]

All those are lore but presented by different writers in different books. So which Asmodeus?

[fossil hollow]

could all of them not be true?

[woven flint]

Incubus, I'm sorry, but I frankly don't care to argue it
I think the king of hell could absolutely take out one of his servants if he really had to, do we genuinely think Tiamat could defeat every Archdevil at once?

[hot marlin]

Is Tiamat a daughter of Io/Asgorath? A goddess from Earth who came to Toril with the people that worshipped her? Half of Asgorath/Io that split up when he got killed? Did Tiamat actually make the universe with Bahamut? All those are lore of Tiamat.

[fossil hollow]

yea

[woven flint]

Statblock wise.

[hot marlin]

Defeat every single one at the same time? Unlikely. Not impossible but very unlikely.

[fossil hollow]

archdevils are less immortal than the queen of dragons

[empty thicket]

in roleplay wold be "there was too much kind of stories said in each region, ones think it was an angel, others that was an entity who existed before, etc. etc."

[fossil hollow]

oh, statwise? i think its a bit doable if its fizban

[hot marlin]

While she is more immortal than the archdevils, she'd just be swarmed.

[fossil hollow]

mythic phase buys her more time to cone em

[hot marlin]

Although that's assuming all the archdevils fight at Asmodeus' side and don't take this opportunity to stab him in the back. Or weren't paid off by Tiamat beforehand.

[woven flint]

Since we wanna use statblocks as only concrete evidence of what someone could do, Asmodeus could just summon Archdevils

[fossil hollow]

cant wait to use that stablock btw

[hot marlin]

Yes, but he can't control them. They're not summoned creatures bound to obey their summoner.

[fossil hollow]

i might 2024-ize it, but i cannot wait to use it

[woven flint]

Yeah, sure, but he has plenty of Subservient Devils to summon as well

[hot marlin]

So yes, his ability to summon gives him an edge in theory.

But in practice, plenty of variables may be in play.

Too many to give any sort of definite answer without creating a concrete, clear scenario that accounts for those variables

[fossil hollow]

holy carp, his statblock is a bit chonky

[hot marlin]

Where does that fight take place? Who starts it? Which magic item are they using? How did they each prepare for that fight? Which allies do each have?

[fossil hollow]

... he has three recharge abilities???

[woven flint]

Yup and he can also recharge them at will as a legendary action

His Statblock is horrendously meaty

[hot marlin]

Uh... Are we looking at the same statblock?

[woven flint]

Chains of Asmodeus?

[fossil hollow]

wait a second, thats spoilers for you lot

[woven flint]

Ah, crap, yeah, Descent into Avernus

Eh, it's gonna be a while before we get there anyway

[hot marlin]

I don't see any legendary action allowing him to regain his recharge abilities

[fossil hollow]

-# its not legendary, its lair

speaking of which, i need to start setting up my homebrewery ddocument for my DiA homebrew monsters

gotta upgrade some named individuals

[lavish flame]

who needs an upgrade in that adventure? i feel like everybody with a name is tough as nails

[hot marlin]

Ti probably wants to give them villain actions from MCDM in addition to what they already have

[fossil hollow]

well, i was thinking of upgrading some warlords

[hot marlin]

Check Kingdoms & Warfare. There's a devil statblock there you'd probably like

[lavish flame]

oh fair, completely forgot about them

[fossil hollow]

nah, im 2024 style with legendary action economy, although im also eyeing how drakkenheim does their Epic Bosses

i take the legendary resistance method from MCDM though, always tied with a downside

-# the lastest one i made:

Beguiling Sacrifice (4/Day). When the succubus fails a saving throw, she can choose to succeed instead. If the succubus does so, she ends up to one Enchantment or Illusion spell on a creature that she casted. Additionally, the amount of spells she can Concentrate on with Lecher’s Mind is reduced by one, regaining all of it after finishing a Long Rest.
Making a statblock based off Demogorgon's ex lover

[hot marlin]

So to the question of "Who is more powerful: Tiamat or Asmodeus?", I would say asking the question is showcasing a misunderstanding of what power is.

Political power, physical power, magical power are all different things.

And "who can beat who in a straight fight" is also a weird question because there is no such thing as a straight fight. Especially if it involves those two.

All fights involving Asmodeus or Tiamat are likely to be very queer fights. She is the rainbow goddess, you know?

And I'm pretty sure Asmodeus is ace.

[fossil hollow]

heh, queer, rainbow dragon

[woven flint]

Okay, so, what I can get from lore,
The most Loyal Archdevils to Asmodeus are Dispater, Galysa, Zariel (Little bit questionable), Tiamat (Willingly became subservient to him anyway lol)

[fossil hollow]

oh yeah, whose the CR 16 archdevil? The one whose more of a political figure compared to his compatriots. ruled over a city

[hot marlin]

It's like that scene in Game of Thrones. Lord Baelish tells queen Cersei "Information is power". Queen Cersei answers by telling his guards "Seize him. Kill him. Wait, I changed my mind, let him go." and adds "Power is power."

She is absolutely right, in a blunt way. Power takes plenty of forms.

[hot marlin]

I think it's Titivilus?

[fossil hollow]

yeah that checks out. twink-ish

[woven flint]

So, with that being said
Asmodeus could likely summon Dispater, Galysa and Zariel against Tiamat I they were to fight,
I know it's not the Mono-E-Mono, but, also, then again, Asmodeus WAS known to be honorable, so maybe he would 1v1 her if she were to fight alone

[fossil hollow]

Galysa is asmo's daughter, right?

[hot marlin]

Well, not at the same time. It is a lair action. He can only summon one every turn.

[woven flint]

Adoptive Daughter

Galysa and Asmodeus aren't directly related

[hot marlin]

I thought her name was "Glasya" for years

[fossil hollow]

i thought she was just as actively scheming as the others against asmo

to which he likes?

[lavish flame]

oh thank god he can only summon one archdevil per turn

[hot marlin]

Everyone schemes in the nine hells. It's a matter of politeness.

[woven flint]

No, youre right lol

[hot marlin]

If you're not scheming against someone, it means you don't respect them.

[woven flint]

I'm just bad at spelling Demon and Devil names from memory

[fossil hollow]

demogowgown

anyway, time to prep mishka. i need to pay the ptsd forward

[woven flint]

The more I read about Asmodeus, the more I actually start to like him lol

[fossil hollow]

... possible duergar i hear?

[hot marlin]

Miska. And it's "Great Lord Miska the Wolf-Spider" to you.

[woven flint]

EXACTLY!

[fossil hollow]

i like the sound the h makes better >:(

[hot marlin]

You have to elongate the "I".

[lavish flame]

does Miska have any relationship to Lolth?

[fossil hollow]

miss-ka < Mishka

ousted by iirc

[hot marlin]

Accentuate. Abyssal is a very accentuated language. It has a musical rythm

[hot marlin]

They kinda hate each other

[fossil hollow]

so me making abyssal more death metal is accurate, ic

[woven flint]

You know Asmodeus only IMPERSONATES Duergar deities, he isn't them

[fossil hollow]

ya sure about that

[woven flint]

Yeah

[fossil hollow]

ya suuuure about that?

[azure jasper]

idk what to do for my backstory
we're starting at level 2, and I have 1 level as a hexblade warlock
idk how i wanna flavor my character's motivation for making the deal with his patron and what both parties get out of the deal

[hot marlin]

The most popular music genres in the abyss are jazz and death metal actually

[fossil hollow]

:) to quote Balbian: "My FR"
/hj

[fossil hollow]

Abyssilica is perfect then! ahahaha! my gnoll rocker lives on!

[woven flint]

"Asmodeus confronted Laduguer. The Lord of the Nine laughed, joked, and cajoled with all his guile, but Laduguer remained grim and stoic, refusing to be affected even when the mightiest celestial might have admitted grudging amusement at the devil's antics."
This is beautiful, Laduguer my goat

[hot marlin]

Graz'zt actually is an excellent saxophone player.

[fossil hollow]

and now i hate jazz

[fossil hollow]

i will kill that twink [Redacted] a second time

[hot marlin]

Zuggtmoy plays her own instrument. Somewhat similar to a guitar.

[woven flint]

It was Today that I learned Graz'zt was an Archdevil before becoming a Demon Prince

[fossil hollow]

yeah, he defected

[hot marlin]

Obviously, the strings are made from the guts of her enemies, but the sound is simply heavenly.

[fossil hollow]

you mean abyssal

[woven flint]

I only learned now because I've never cared for Graz'zt

[hot marlin]

Actually that's not lore. It's presented as a theory some people have about Graz'zt.

The lore is more that some people think he's a former archdevil.

[fossil hollow]

i feel like in world theories can count as lore

[woven flint]

I'm more of a Baphomet and Jubilex head

Those are my boys

[hot marlin]

Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss had him be born a demon. Son of the one we will only refer to as "her ladyship in white"

[fossil hollow]

hmmmm

hey, what do you call umberlee

[hot marlin]

... Did you know what would happen?

You manipulative gremlin.

[fossil hollow]

... did you call her Sea [Redacted] LMAO

[hot marlin]

I called her by her actual lore nickname!

[fossil hollow]

LMAO, GOTTEM

[hot marlin]

Which, it turns out, is actually prevented language. Because apparently female dogs are illegal!

[fossil hollow]

its so funny to me thats an endorsed nickname

and even funnier you actually did it

[hot marlin]

So anyways I call her the [female dog] queen, because that's actually one of her most popular in-lore nickname.

And no, it is not an insult. Dogs are great animals. As Diogenes said it: It is better to be a dog than to be a human.

[fossil hollow]

shame im not running a nautical adventure in fr

[latent crater]

They are hard to master

3d combat is such a hard thing to envision both online and in game

[fossil hollow]

one day i will run a campaign that takes place 90% on a vehicle, wether thats gonna be a train (Eberron) campaign, an airship (also Eberron), or sea (homebrew)

[hot marlin]

Well actually, the insult part is calling her a queen.

[fossil hollow]

... wait, Spelljammer

[hot marlin]

I don't like kings and queens. To the guillotine with them.

[latent crater]

Hope your good at doing lots of math

[hot marlin]

Better to be a dog than a king.

[fossil hollow]

... knowing where you live, it makes so much more sense lmao

[latent crater]

Spelljammer is nice

Would be cool to see a good system for 3d combat for tabletop that doesnt require hundreds of thousands spent on terrain

[fossil hollow]

maybe one day ill make the Astral Express Nova Astra

[fossil hollow]

-# i hear lancer is good for mecha and positioning

.... hmmm spelljammer, planescape, or a full blown fey campaign

[latent crater]

hahah the fey

Dont ever drink the free fizzy drinks, they are not safe for consumption

[empty thicket]

i like some concepts of kings, they are a figure i like in most stories.

An idea of king i have in the head is a king that in the wars he is in the vanguard with his army, a king respected by his strength, strategy and kindness but still a Warlord in the battlefields

[humble cairn]

Fey campaign!! I wanna play my Kitsune/Huli Jing.

[buoyant oar]

The best kings are the one who outwardly appear so evil that you start a revolution only to find out why they did the things they did when you are in power.

[tame forge]

I love kings like Jorg Ancrath from kingdom of thorns series.

Id play a character like that tbh but haven't enjoyed political characters in D&D I have found.

Much preffer sticking to monster PC's

[tame forge]

I dunno I love the rulers who are genuinely evil but make the changes necessary for a better world.

I guess it's kinda similar.

[buoyant oar]

Give me Letho II the God Emperor

[tame forge]

Guess Jorg is a good example. Blatantly evil, horrific person, who actually cares about his people and his kingdom.

I dunno how to add spoiler on mobile.

But he sacrifices his own life for a better life for everyone else. Giving up his power and his rule, to make a brighter future.

But like he was a R*****, cold blooded murderer, committed genocides, ETC. Like very evil, bad, dishonorable person, who still had rich story and deep morals in his own weird corrupted way.

[hot gate]

Spelljammer with the mobile base stuff from eberron could be neat

[cunning fossil]

Wonder if someone has ever homebrewed Who's Who from bo2 zombies into DND

[winter bobcat]

I just bought the 2024 books, I saw all the controversy surrounding them when they first released but decided to take my chances. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what the current consensus about them (good, bad, mixed, etc)?

[latent crater]

I like em

[hot gate]

I'd say the "consensus" depends on where you ask.

I'd rather just say what I think: they're great

I think they're an overall improvement upon 2014.

[humble cairn]

Most people seem to like it, I do.

[hot marlin]

You don't kill kings because they're evil! You kill kings because they're kings.

[deft juniper]

Hello everyone

[hot marlin]

Do you care if the cow whose meat is in your hamburger was a good or evil cow? Of course not.

It's a cow, you are a human who wants a hamburger. So you eat the hamburger

[winter bobcat]

Okay, thanks. I had just told a friend I bought them who was not a fan and was starting to have second thoughts.

[humble cairn]

The game runs more smoothly with the 2024 update, a lot of the weird and broken things were fixed.

[burnt valley]

what DM tricks should players be aware of?

[latent crater]

Why should we tell you that, then yall would learn the secrets to a good campaign

[hot gate]

Here's a secret: good DMs actually want you to succeed and have fun. Shocking, I know.

[hot marlin]

Don't trust mentor figures or powerful helpful NPCs. They tend to betray or die.

What else?

[humble cairn]

The biggest trick of all, openly communicating expectations while committing to helping everyone have a good time and asking you to do the same.

[hot marlin]

Let's see... My favourite trick is the treacherous quest giver, of course.

Oh, and when someone says something like "[Other NPC] is bound by oath to [expected action]", this often means the other NPC won't do it.

[latent crater]

Oh yeah heres one thatll throw you oath. Most of the time, we dont session prep, we just wing it

[remote wadi]

A little curious if there are other RPG games similar to BG3. To the extent of fantasy RPG that can be enjoyed with friends

[burnt valley]

There's an infinitesimal chance of making them do it with an absurdly high DC but i wouldn't count on it

[hot marlin]

Divinity Original Sin 1 and 2. Also made by Larian.

Generally, the more sure an NPC is that something will happen, the less likely it will happen

[remote wadi]

Would you recommend?

[hot marlin]

Oh, other thing: Don't pick useless fights. If no-name goblins are running away, let them run away

[hot marlin]

I personally did not enjoy them. But many people did. So, make of it what you will

[latent crater]

Also, Diplomacy is and good roleplay may yield better results then just saying youre going to do something and then rolling for it

[hot gate]

For general media recommendations #dnd-media or #non-dnd-topics would be more suitable.

[remote wadi]

Let's just say i was watching a smaller cartoon about an RPG series and it made me get the "want to go on an adventure with friends, but currently have no friends" itch

[coral lake]

Is eloquence bard still viable with 2024 rules, do i need to make any changes in the subclass?

[humble cairn]

Divinity Original Sin 2 was great and very satisfying gameplay, but the plot was somewhat of a disappointment near the end.

[hot marlin]

Oh and another trick I use: Any shapeshifting enemy will try to kill and replace a friend of the PCs.

That leads to an excellent scene where half the party find the corpse of the Sorcerer's spouse an hour after they saw the sorcerer go home and be greeted by their spouse.

[humble cairn]

Is there anytime where you have a sincerely nice NPC who is just .. that? Not a trick NPC?

[remote wadi]

Okay, no friends is a stretch, but none that I both feel close to and enjoy RPGs

[burnt valley]

Ohh I see good to know

[hot marlin]

All the time! But they tend to suffer horrible fates. Not always, but often.

The way I see it, a character's purpose is to move the plot. If the only way they move it is by dying horribly, then they die horribly

[latent crater]

Heh

ah too many boblin to goblin's exploded into atoms to move the plot

Good times, very very good times

[hot marlin]

Note that the spouse wasn't a trick NPC. The shapeshifter who killed the spouse is the trick NPC.

[burnt valley]

note to self: make every character i make paranoid and distrusting of anything that isn't the party

[hot marlin]

Poison too. I go by the rule of "If a character has the motive and means to poison the party, they'll use the first opportunity"

[latent crater]

Also as a dm, make your posion scary and do more then just the damage

[coral lake]

Also which bards can use BI as reaction?

[latent crater]

I mean its kinda good, i dont believe they have eloquence, as far as i remember there's valor, dance, glamour, and i wanna say creation?

[pliant sapphire]

Lore? 🤔

[humble cairn]

Lore and Dance have uses for Bardic Inspiration as a Reaction.

[latent crater]

ik dance is like crazy good due to it basicaly being able to moonwalk across the battlefield having opportunity attacks be at disadvantage as long as they are dancing same with their spell attacks

[burnt valley]

idk if this is a joke or smth lol

[humble cairn]

It's not. This should be standard for all DMs.

[latent crater]

Indeed

[hot gate]

It's humorous in the context of the question, but a true statement.

[humble cairn]

No, they just avoid OAs entirely.

[latent crater]

if the players are having fun, then we are as well.

[burnt valley]

Are there more DM tricks should i be aware about?

[humble cairn]

You know that you're supposed to be on the same side as the DM, right?

[hot gate]

Now I want to know why you're asking.

[humble cairn]

Right, what is the motivation behind this question?

[latent crater]

Probably had some dm pull something to make them have some general distrust of gms

[burnt valley]

I want to avoid embarrassing deaths via a dungeon trap or some random consequence from an action one of our party members or me did

[latent crater]

Sometimes you just gotta let it happen

[humble cairn]

I mean, probably more useful to learn DM red flags. Like for me, not doing a Session 0 is a red flag.

[latent crater]

Because sometimes it does happen and that is okay

[burnt valley]

I also don't like getting tricked into doing something that's stoopid

[coral lake]

I meant would be good idea to allow a player use eloquence in 2024 without modification?

[humble cairn]

I find it better to play to your character's knowledge level and personality. If they would fall for a trap, then fall for it. If your group is okay with that character, of course.

[hot gate]

Oh. Well, I'd actually say if it's not something that the DM described and just assumed you should know, I'd say that's a badly run game.

[latent crater]

Uhhhhh yeah? as far as i remember its balanced

so should be relatively fine, plus stuff can be adjusted pretty easy

love the new sharpshooter feat though it is insanely good for 2024

[burnt valley]

Only the DM gets a kick out of it

[hot marlin]

Nobody gets a kick out of it, but it happens anyways and it has to happen

Now, if you want tactics you as a player may implement to avoid stupid deaths...

[latent crater]

I have, in this one campaign alone killed 5 PCs out of a 7 player group, some of them were traps that the players made worse by stacking a bunch of explosives on the ground next to it because it looked suspicious, others have died in combat because they wanted a punishing hardcorey game system

[hot marlin]

First off countless traps can be avoided by having a familiar, a skeleton, a mage hand or an unseen servant open the door. Have minions! Minions with order to administer potions of healing to downed party member for example. Always have detect magic up. Use your minions to scout ahead!

[burnt valley]

Bruhh

[hot marlin]

Secure your rest. Alarm, rope trick, cordon of arrows, tiny hunt and magnificient mansion are all here t help you.

[cosmic forum]

Hey guys I would like help to create a Politics/ war nation building fantasy RP server if anyone is interested in that sort of thing

[latent crater]

I do not enjoy killing players, it gives me satisfaction to know that some of them now realize that the world of Eldariel is a scary place with many scary things. I have since dialed back pretty well on just how extreme some of the damage stuff was. One of them was terrible where going down or getting critted by a specific type of damage gave you a lingering injury

[hot marlin]

Careful about saving throws, stay near your paladin friend when your saves are bad. Bless is good.

[latent crater]

since then, I have kinda found that wonderful niche of combat, and roleplay whre the combat encounters range pretty heavy from easy to basically bloodborne and yeah

[hot marlin]

Diagnostics are your friend too! Divination, commune, contact other plane can all help stay prepared. Zone of truth, detect thoughts help verify that nobody is possessed, under mental influences or planning to betray the party. Have your character keep a journal, that's how you beat false hydras! (If your DM is one of those)

[burnt valley]

I'm guessing Adamantine equipment were also hard to come by

[hot marlin]

Dispel magic, restoration and remove curse are your friends. Regularly cast those on the entire party.

[latent crater]

I do have some limitations on what I allow, adamantine equipment albiet cool, is really overpowered for its pricemark, and makes DND feel way less dangerous

[hot marlin]

Arcane locks on your bags prevents stuff from being stolen.

[latent crater]

giving players access to certain things like silvery barbs, adamantine equipment, god forbid a vorpal sword, etc, can make it feel like it is on easy mode

But granted my players were the ones to ban silvery barbs because they know that if they can use it so can the dm

and nothing is more depressing then getting a crit, and having taken away the BBEG's crit then getting your crit taken away

[burnt valley]

Tbh Silvery Barbs thing is overblown/overrated as to how strong it is

[latent crater]

well there are classes that can just do it

[burnt valley]

I'll steal this one for survival campaigns

[latent crater]

like grave domain cleric just has a class ability that allows you to sentinel at death's door and take away crits within a 60 foot radius

[burnt valley]

Divination Wizard can do it too though i wouldn't use it to avert a crit

[latent crater]

granted its only able to be used as many times as you have charisma modifier but still

[latent crater]

This is just good in general

plus its great to know if your dm is a scumbag by having your loot in a bastion, then having it get raided by goblins, but somehow one of the gobbos just happened to be a shaman with knock and dispel magic

Got a personal beef with that

[hot marlin]

What's wrong with that?

Goblins can be wizards. Knock and dispel magic are normal spell for a wizard to prepare. Especially when raiding a bastion

If your security can be beaten by those two spells, the problem is your security not the DM.

[latent crater]

When you reward your players 1000 Sun Dragons (platinum in waterdeep) and allow them to purchase magical equipment in the Dragonheist campaign, then force the player aka me to have to reveal the location of where i store stuff because the dm needs to know or we cant continue the game, then conviently have the Xanathar guild steal a Mace of disruption, belt of Fire Giant Strength, and every single potion i just dropped almost 10000 gold on i tend to be a little pissed

[burnt valley]

Was the monsters mostly melee?

[latent crater]

Especially since the items i got for other people were mysteriously not taken and i get stuck with 0 equipment and now being poor

[latent crater]

healthy mix

[hot marlin]

OK so first off: Yes, the DM does need to know the location where you hide them.

[burnt valley]

I see i see

[hot marlin]

Yes, it is perfectly normal for the Xanathar guild to raid your stuff.

The problem here is: How did the Xanathar guild know where your stuff was and why didn't they steal the rest of the stuff?

[fiery lion]

i cant believe that theirs a game that has more dice rolling than DnD

[hot marlin]

Almost every non-narrative TTRPG has more dice rolling. D&D is among the simplest non-narrative TTRPGs

The only ones more simple among the "big names" RPGs are the World of Darkness TTRPGs.

[latent crater]

indeed its also perfetly normal when you have a wizard, a rouge, an artificer, and a fighter (me) get a bastion in town with hired protection who have been grinding out protection from the xanathar guild for 6 levels atp to not really have to worry about things going sideways especially when we had paid a wizard 3000 gold to cast a spell that disallows scrying and knowing the location of an item

[hot marlin]

No, that part is not normal.

The rest is normal, not that part. That leads to my point: How did the guild know where your stuff was?

[latent crater]

magic apparently

[hot marlin]

The answer seems to be DM fiat.

And that may indeed be bad DM practice. The rest is fine

[latent crater]

But only for the belt of Fire giant strength which is specifically what my character a fighter needed to get more then a 16 strength

because by this point i had to take utility stuff because our wizard was too squishy and i was the only frontliner of the grup

[hot marlin]

Note the "may". It is entirely possible that the DM had this prepared for a long time, that NPCs had been shadowing you that you failed to notice. That you failed to notice some NPC had been replaced.

Since I am not in your game, I see two possibilities. The first is indeed DM bad practice. The other is that there was a huge security flaw that is still in your blind spot

[latent crater]

I mean its possible sure, but not giving the rouge who was able to have a passive perception of 26 and passive investigation of 24 the ability to see through your bs i beg to disagree

[steep pivot]

Which book do I need to buy to play Tempest domain cleric?

[hot marlin]

That part is indeed abnormal.

[latent crater]

Granted this was like 6 years ago, but still was enough of an event to leave a lasting memory

[pliant sapphire]

2014 PHB

[steep pivot]

Ty

It's not in 2024 PHB is it? Because that's on sale rn

[latent crater]

2024 uses different rules then 2014

[steep pivot]

Crap, ok ty for your help

[pliant sapphire]

No 🙁 but im sure it will be reprinted in the future

[fiery lion]

hey where can i get like the stats of warforge

like where is the best option for warforge in dnd

[latent crater]

regardless that is why I as the dm give my players plenty of magical items, and the ability to be powerful because all of the campaigns i got to play in were either people were terrible or gm hated what i was building

Most of the time it was the fact that i would roll semi well or use standard array and get good enough bonuses to Be able to do 1 thing extremely well

maybe 2 if i got lucky but that was usually face and do the thing my class is designed to do

[hot marlin]

Oh and another good player behaviour: Never get into a deal that you do not have the means to enforce.

Betting on the good faith of someone, taking their word at face value that they'll do the thing you want them to do in exchange for something, is a recipe for disaster.

Always have leverage.

[knotty pasture]

Aka don't do deals with devils, they bad

[hot marlin]

The monster who says they will free your friend if you bring them the magical flower or something?

Bad idea. You'll bring the flower and they'll kill your friend anyways.

Have leverage.

Now normally you have the means of enforcing a devil deal. Infernal laws and infernal courts punish devils who break a contract

[knotty pasture]

Get your hold person/monster ready after they freed your friend

[hot marlin]

So in that sense a devil is more trustworthy than a celestial. But the devil is in the details.

Read the bloody contract with a magnifying glass

Better yet. Have the preambule of the contract state that the presence of any fine print renders the contract null and void.

[burnt valley]

In the case of a party member planned betrayal(that was talked about between them and the GM), should i go out of my way to stop them before they start?

[hot marlin]

Well yeah of course. Your character doesn't want to be betrayed.

[burnt valley]

Honestly, even if my party has no choice but to make a deal with a devil, i'll try to find a different solution tbh

[knotty pasture]

Would celestials even betray? Like yeah ofc they can but I'm having a hard time picturing it

[hot marlin]

Nah, some devil deals turn out fine. But summon your inner lawyer.

And I'm talking personal injury lawyer, you know? The kinds that look at every single possible loophole.

Imagine yourself as the devil when you make the deal and think about the ways you would screw the other party over.

[hot marlin]

Well yeah. Betrayal is not morality-based. Betraying for a good cause is in line for celestials.

[remote wadi]

That sounds like Summon Fey with extra steps

[knotty pasture]

I always felt like the act of betrayal is part of what divides good vs evil

Asmodeus is lawful evil but is all too willing to deceive and betray

[hot marlin]

The guy who betrays the evil king is not committing an evil act.

Especially if they do it to free the slaves or prevent an unjust execution.

[knotty pasture]

Good point, though I guess this ties back to whether a good guy would even do things in such a roundabout way (cuz they would have participated in evil things to get closer)

Maybe I'm overthinking this lol, my Chaotic Good Ranger was dabbling in assassination for money at one point

[hot marlin]

Not necessarily. Let's take the Jaime Lannister situation. You are a noble knight in the Kingsguard. Your king turns insane, and at one point decides to burn the entire city down. You kill him.

[knotty pasture]

Okay that's really good

[hot marlin]

The point of the Jaime reveal is that Jaime used to be a good person who wanted nothing more than to be one of those great noble knights.

[knotty pasture]

The point not the killing

[remote wadi]

Seriously, Fey have a few too many correlations with irl lawyers

• Business done in places called courts
• Follows the letter, not spirit, of the law
• Can't legally lie, so speaks in half truths and misleading language
• Excels at finding loopholes
• Is obsessed with contracts

Coincidence? I think not

[knotty pasture]

Do you mean devils

[hot marlin]

And of course there's the splendid part "They make you swear all these oaths. Respect your father. Obey your king. Defend the innocents. But what if your king orders you to kill your father and burns innocents alive?"

[knotty pasture]

I thought fey are more likely to follow the spirit of the law if anything

[remote wadi]

Ehhh

Devils would only meet maybe 2 of those correlations

[hot marlin]

(Actually the quote is: "So many vows...they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other")

Sometimes life forces cruel choices and you're left to choose between different kinds of betrayal.

[hot marlin]

The problem is that fey generally have a very different notion of what constitutes the spirit.

[knotty pasture]

Oh of course

Well I guess hags are kind of like devils in that regard

[hot marlin]

Anyways, anyone of any alignment can commit betrayal. Life is cruel.

[knotty pasture]

A Celestial Warlock patron betraying their Warlock would be a new one to me

[hot marlin]

I can imagine a situation easily.

Here:
Sublime is a warlock with a pact with the Solar Niceguy. The terms of their pact is that Sublime receives powers, and when called upon by Niceguy, must use those powers to rescue a designated innocent or kill an evil creature while Niceguy also must warn Sublime of any form of retaliation related to those evil creatures or complications from those rescues.
Niceguy though sees an opportunity. His fiendish archnemesis, Vonmurderkill, was a friend of an evil creature killed by Sublime and plans vengeance. Niceguy doesn't warn Sublime because this would be the perfect occasion to lure Vonmurderkill to the material plane to capture him. Sublime is a regrettable sacrificial pawn. For the greater good.

Instead Niceguy arranges things so that Vonmurderkill attacks Sublime in a place of Niceguy's choosing.

[knotty pasture]

Had the sudden urge to wring out Niceguy's life

[hot marlin]

This is a betrayal. It is extremely manipulative and breaks the term of their arrangement. But still in character for Niceguy

Never trust nice guys.

Also never trust anyone named "Vonmurderkill" but I'm not sure it really needed to be said

Again, remember the motto of good storytelling: Life forces cruel choices.

[knotty pasture]

Gonna take that into account when I'm writing the v2 of my characters' backstories

[hot marlin]

And yeah, a lot of good stories are based on the cruel choices forced upon the characters by their circumstances. Their refusal to make a choice often. (See Hamlet and the Iliad for the two best example of a story caused by a character's refusal to make a choice)

[grim geyser]

Hi! Can someone please explain to me the logical reasoning behind the Bastion mechanics—why basic facilities take four months to build and cost money, while special facilities, which include expensive equipment and provide real gameplay benefits, just appear out of thin air for free?

I really would like to make sense of this in my head. It seems like a very odd rule to me, but since the developers made this decision, they must have had some logic behind it—I just haven’t figured it out yet.

[humble cairn]

The answer is that D&D is not realistic and it's not meant to be.

Bastion mechanics are basically for downtime, which is all the time you're not adventuring. Since adventuring is the focus of the game, downtime stuff is meant to be in the background and not something robust that you are meant to be doing as a large part of play.

But no, there is no official comment about why Bastion mechanics are formulated the way they are, at least that I know of.

[lucid grail]

Do you guys think I should buy Xanathar's Guide to Everything or Tasha's Cauldron of Everything first?

[rough basalt]

Depends are you a player or DM more?

Player, I'd say whichever book has the more fun sounding Subclasses, tho if you enjoy Ranger, definitely Tashas, as a DM, Xanathars if you want Downtime expanded and some extra guidance on magic items and monster areas (off top of my head), Tashas if you want the nice optional rules that "fix" Ranger, and change up racial asis to be a general +2/1 point system rather than specific, new magic items, and expanded exploration challenges

[odd raven]

Does anybody here watch hazbin hotel? If yes, should I watch it?

[lucid grail]

At the moment I'm just DMing so I think I'll do Xanathar's

[rough basalt]

If you play 2024, you can scratch off magic item guidance, monster areas from XGE, and the optional rules from Tashas, but the non-reprinted subclasses of each are still fine for the most part and the Downtime Revised, and Exploration Challenges, and Tashas magic items weren't reprinted entirely.

[rough basalt]

Not a bad choice.

It has a lot of fun Subclasses as a player too imo

[feral fulcrum]

More of a #non-dnd-topics thing.

[lucid grail]

Yeah, I'm looking to play at some point and I would love to have those options

[rough basalt]

Ultimately it is dms discretion, but I'd argue more tables probably allow XGE than not.

[feral fulcrum]

Do make deals with Devils, in the right circumstances. It leads to good Plots, and gibs you shinies. Just don't make deals with Demons, because Chaotic Evil can't be trusted to not eat you the second you turn your back.

[rough basalt]

Tashas is the one that probably gets allowed less but not by a large margin.

Due to it being when 2024s design started (more power, versatility in ASIs for players)

[feral fulcrum]

If the only thing allowed is Sword Coast Adventure Guide, you're in trouble, and that campaign is nothing but red flags.

[lucid grail]

Yeah, alright. Thanks for the help!

[rough basalt]

Yeah SCAG was part of the old evil design /j

[feral fulcrum]

SCAG had some of the most "What were they smoking when they made this?" design decisions

[rough basalt]

Ye WotC was fumbling with design for the first 2 years or so

Then XGE was the more or less starting point of the current design foundation

[idle oar]

And Tasha's kind of hints at what would be coming with the 2024 updates (at least the design principles behind the 2024 updates of clarifying and polishing things up)

[rough basalt]

Yeah, Tashas and the books that came after we're basically building '24 up

[hot gate]

Mordenkainens MotM was also a big one in regards to monster design and species.
I still use lots of monsters from there, since they're really solid.

[rough basalt]

BoMT introducing Tough, Lucky, and Alert as background feats

When until that point background feats were usually setting specific stuff

One thing I'm glad they didn't keep was the removal of Legendary stuff

It is funny looking at certain statblocks made in that time frame tho

Vecna having 3 counterspells a round.

One thing I miss that I use for some of my homebrew statblocks is Mythic stuff.

I'm a sucker for "phase 2" kinda stuff

[tawdry sentinel]

Is mythic when they die and come back for round 2 with shinier features

[rough basalt]

Ye basically a phase 2

Theros had it on their 3 "God" statblocks

And Bahamut and Tiamat

Are the ones I can think of

Alright I forgot, the Greatwyrms do have mythic too

[tawdry sentinel]

I have seen it on some third party stuff for Strahd, Halaster and the like.

[rough basalt]

I gave it to a Mummy Lord boss for a one shot I've yet to run, because one shots scare me

Has a mythic phase that let's him summon a bunch of mummies and basically cast an aoe of Irresistable Dance

The balancing factor is that it affects the Mummy's too even tho their charm immune

[humble cairn]

... was it Thriller?

[rough basalt]

Actually he's a DJ, based off a meme of a Ds1 boss who raises the dead, never thought of Thriller LOL

Lich who makes his Undead and the party do Thriller

His shield spell is flavored as moonwalking out of the way of your attacks

[vale sage]

So a Michael Jackson DJ mummy lord?

[rough basalt]

Nah mines a different ordeal and has some lore ties in my world, but the suggestion of thriller makes me wanna do a Michael Jackson Lich basically.

He used magic to peer into other worlds and was inspired by "this world's so called "King of Pop" that ruled the world during his life"

[vale sage]

Maybe make the reanimated, moonwalking undead if you wanna do it

[rough basalt]

God now I wanna go make that

[remote wadi]

Part of me hopes I can make this Ranger character work a little bit more

He's doing okayish, but there are several things holding him and me back

[vale sage]

What exactly is the problem?

[remote wadi]

Long story short, Life Cleric rarely shows up, a lack of notable gear for being level 5, and insanely bad luck

And now I have to juggle the drawbacks of being a vampire now

[vale sage]

Whats the subclass and feat?

[remote wadi]

For me?

[vale sage]

Yes

Also a vampire character should probably only fight in the dark

[remote wadi]

Imagine a sniper class of sorts. Gloomstalker, Sharpshooter, and Piercer are the main ones

[remote wadi]

Silver lining, CoS campaign is usually overcast

[humble cairn]

Using Dhampir rules?

[vale sage]

Good feat choice, it's probably just die luck or gear

[humble cairn]

If you're using Dhampir you now have darkvision of 120ft and can snipe even better in the dark.

[cosmic forum]

Hey guys I would like help in creating a Politics/ war nation building RP server in a fantasy setting if anyone is interested in that sort of thing

[humble cairn]

Maybe try #dm-world-building

[remote wadi]

I'll give the main ones in q sec brb

[cosmic forum]

Okayyy

[remote wadi]

So, the rules I remember are

No sunlight, no running water, no trespassing, and no wooden stakes when I'm sleeping

Safe to assume vampire

[hoary totem]

DnDers, what's your favourite cantrip?

[glass granite]

Prestidigitation

[rough basalt]

Thaumaturgy probably

[remote wadi]

Kind of Wish I had Spare the Dying irl

[rough basalt]

Booming Blade is my favorite combat cantrip which puts it on par

[glass granite]

Booming blade is my second place

[pliant sapphire]

True strike enjoyer

[vale sage]

Vicious mockery

[hoary totem]

Valid, auto disadvantage is goated

[glass granite]

True strike ain’t bad

[rough basalt]

New true strike anyway

[hoary totem]

2024 true strike that is

[glass granite]

I just like my attacks with a bit more…boom
And yeah 2014 true strike is kinda pathetic

[rough basalt]

Imagine True Striking then missing

Two wasted turns

[hoary totem]

Very versatile for a spell that's supposed to be weak. Even more flavour when your DM allows it during social, as persuasion, intimidation etc. Plus you can make your enemies poop their pants

[glass granite]

Unfortunately, it has verbal and somatic components, so using it socially is weird.
Which is why I like using it with metamagic, or would like to.

[vale sage]

In IRL, I can't pronounce this one

[humble cairn]

Or else what? Death? Also any benefits to your new condition?

[humble cairn]

PRESS-tuh-digit-AY-shin

[remote wadi]

Total pros and cons

Cons: 20 acid damage per turn ended in running water
20 radiant damage taken per turn in sunlight or trespassing + disadvantage on all checks and attacks in sunlight
Stake in the heart when sleeping = paralysis until removed
Need to make a Wis save at end of day or be sent into a blood frenzy. DC = 10 + days without consumption, frenzy length = 1 + (DC - total save number) hours
Consuming 1 lb of blood removes the need for the save for the day

As for the pros

[humble cairn]

Yeah seems like all the curses of being an actual vampire. Blood isn't normally measured in pounds, though.

[hard crystal]

I don’t understand why any of the bard sublasses would be good compared to other subclasses tbh, they all add some minor things like valor giving their inspiration on attacks

[remote wadi]

It's probably also equivalent to 1 pint, more or less. Could carry it around in a waterskin if I really needed to

As for the pros

[humble cairn]

Some of them are quite good:
Lore can make attacks miss as a Reaction, it's a bit like being able to pop Shield on an ally
Eloquence can debuff enemy saving throws, useful to make them fail some big effects like Hold Person or Turn Undead, etc
Dance can move two allies into or out of melee range as a Reaction along with themselves, great for getting squishies out and putting beefier allies in
Glamor can do a huge burst of that repositioning and give temp hp on top of it

[remote wadi]

Resistance to necrotic and NMP (non magical physical) damage, spider climbing, and light regeneration (heal my player level up to a maximum of 10 HP. Presumably only heals if under 10 HP and at the start of my turns)

[humble cairn]

Some of these things are rather more than minor.

[remote wadi]

Which, if I can balance out the somewhat harsh drawbacks, could work out pretty well

[hard crystal]

I’d do lore since it seems so strong, but I feel like other classes get so much more through their subclass

[hard crystal]

warrior is the most basic class of them all and gets to do a lot more stuff

[humble cairn]

Bard is kind of middle of the pack in that way. Their subclasses are less impactful than Artificer, but more impactful than Wizard.

[hard crystal]

sure I get 2 more spells, but is that crazy good? I alr get 6 in total

[remote wadi]

The largest one that sticks out to me is the trespassing rule. Would make stealing from enemies pretty hard

[humble cairn]

"Warrior" is not a class. Are you thinking Fighter?

[hard crystal]

yes sorry

in italian it’s translated as warrior

[humble cairn]

Ahh, you're talking about 2014 Lore Bard, aren't you? It's quite powerful still. Extra Magical Secrets allows you to grab some really useful spell early on.

[hard crystal]

yes we are playing 2014

[humble cairn]

Counterspell is great, but so is Find Steed, poor Paladins having to watch as Bards get their signature spells before the, though.

[humble cairn]

Is stealing from enemies something you were hoping to do a lot?

[remote wadi]

Merchant scammed the heck out of my starting gold, if you forgot

[humble cairn]

Can't forget something I never knew.

[hard crystal]

I mean I already steal spells from other classes anyway

[remote wadi]

No one bothered to pack rations but me, merchant decided to jack up the prices because no competition. Part of me wanted to go back and rob him eventually

[humble cairn]

Right, but stealing them from half casters many levels before they have access is kind of extra mean.

[humble cairn]

Ambush him and drink him like a juicebox.

[hard crystal]

that’s fair lol

I need to check what are good spells for a bard then

[humble cairn]

Lore is really flexible, can be built in many different ways depending on what you choose.

Also you have to think about your party and how you can compensate for what they're missing.

[remote wadi]

Nah. It's the loot I would want

But I also might unfortunately have to give up on the firearm plans. No luck from work of mouth aside from "Vistani camps might know"

[humble cairn]

Longbow works great.

[remote wadi]

Also, let me get this straight for Bard "stealing spells" with Lore Bard

It's any spell from a cantrip to a 3rd level spell

[humble cairn]

That's only right at level 6, but for 2014 Lore Bard I believe when you level up you can swap those Extra Magical Secrets spells for other spells from other lists.

[remote wadi]

It isn't terrible, but it gets boring after a while. Feels like I'm using the ranged equivalent of a pool noodle

[remote wadi]

Nice

[humble cairn]

What do you want, though? Basically most ranged builds want what longbow has, which is range.

You should not have calibrated your expectations to basically optional weapons like firearms.

[remote wadi]

They can easily work without firearms for now

1. I just wanted to hit a little harder for now because a singular d8 feels a little underwhelming so far
2. If needed, I can invest in CBE because I did get a heavy crossbow

[humble cairn]

You should not have expected more than a d8 weapon tbh, I think your expectations are not right.

[limber trail]

most weapons greater than 1d8, even martial weapons, come with "downsides" (typically lower AC from not wielding a shield)

[humble cairn]

A d8 weapon is 4.5dmg on avg, a d12 weapon is 6.5. The difference is there, but it's not hugely dramatic.

And with your Gloomstalker invisibility in place you should be able to more reliably use your Sharpshooter power attack now.

[remote wadi]

Gloomstalker invisibility?

[humble cairn]

In the dark you are effectively invisible.

It's like .. the main draw of being a Gloomstalker.

[remote wadi]

In the dark, everyone is taking a long rest

[humble cairn]

You need to stick to the darkness when fighting.

[remote wadi]

Which i don't really know how I can work with that when trying to be nocturnal means no shops are open

[humble cairn]

Because you will have Advantage on all your attacks.

[limber trail]

I may be wrong, but is it not a curse of strahd campaign? Darkness will be abound.

[humble cairn]

Find a deep shadow that is true Darkness and not Dim Light.

[remote wadi]

I'm saying that the party is only really doing anything during the daytime

[humble cairn]

Ask that they do things differently.

Why are you even a Gloomstalker if you're not fighting from the darkness?

[pliant sapphire]

There are caves and dungeons without light

[hard crystal]

how does a creature win a save throw against a character?

[remote wadi]

DC is almost always 8 + Spellcasting Modifier + proficiency bonus

So a level 5 Wizard with 18 Intelligence will have a DC of 15 on Fireball. Creature needs to roll 15 or higher to pass the save

[remote wadi]

Made the suggestion in their chat

[humble cairn]

With you being a vampire now, too, if they choose to adventure in broad daylight that's them choosing to split the party.

[remote wadi]

CoS campaign is usually overcast

[humble cairn]

So you'd risk the clouds opening up on the DM's whim to burn you?

[knotty pasture]

As mentioned the baseline save throw is 8 + spellcasting modifier + proficiency bonus, the enemy basically has to roll equal or higher than the save throw to achieve a save

You would instantly die when you are in sunlight for the record

[remote wadi]

Only 20 damage. And the characters we have have high HP

If only I had good healing....

But yeah. I didn't say I was going to keep doing stuff in the daytime. Just that it does have serious drawbacks

[knotty pasture]

Its 20 damage per 1 turn, at those kinda levels you get downed in turn 3

Kind of why dhampirs are a better idea for roleplaying as a vampire cuz you don't need to deal with all these nerfs at least

[remote wadi]

I didn't exactly demand to play a vampire

This is just the consequences I will have for my Ranger being resurrected

And one more thing the DM won't mention. Par for the course, but I'm more curious than upset

[knotty pasture]

Bunch of penalties with a vampire that if it was unmentioned would make your life so much easier (and have you be the strongest player overall)

[humble cairn]

Near constant invisibility is why people play Gloomstalker, though. So the more time you spend in darkness, the better you will fare.

[knotty pasture]

+20 hp per turn is huge

[humble cairn]

Not only will that kill you quick, it will also make you drop concentration sooner than later.

Making you a vampire was a highly questionable choice by your DM, in a campaign full of questionable DM choices.

[knotty pasture]

In a campaign where Ranger is all but trashed

Playing as a boss class monster is probably what it needs for Bloodline to hypercarry

Unless the DM deliberately abuses vampire weaknesses its safe to say that Bloodline can finally feel powerful

[humble cairn]

Unless the party chooses to kill this character by adventuring by day.

We are acknowledging that this would be literal torture, right?

[knotty pasture]

God I hope not, brought back to life only to die in 20 secs or be forced to stay in camp

[lean lark]

It's funny though that if a gloomstalker does get downed their own party can't even see them to heal them

[eager marsh]

That’s on the party for not having devil’s Sight or torches

[halcyon bison]

Good morning people
Or whatever other time it is for you

[humble cairn]

Good evening!

[lean lark]

Hard to light a torch in the middle of combat

[eager marsh]

Shoulda had one beforehand. Darkvision only gives you disadvantage in perception anyways

[uncut zenith]

Pretty sure it takes an action, but if it’s an action that can turn the tide of a combat, it may be worth taking

[eager marsh]

It’s a frequently forgotten mechanic but darkvision is strictly not perfect. Devil’s Sight is but you sell your soul for that one

[uncut zenith]

Or take a feat

[eager marsh]

Sell a small fraction of your soul

[uncut zenith]

Sell a couple of years of service

[eager marsh]

It’s like an internship

[lean lark]

Yeah, though spending a full action to light a torch can also negatively impact the party

[uncut zenith]

Hence what I said about deciding whether it will turn the tide of combat

If you didn’t have a torch ready before initiative, that’s on you and your group. But you decide whether it’s worth sacrificing an action to light a torch vs doing anything else.

[eager marsh]

Thief rogue’s stay winning with bonus action light a torch

[uncut zenith]

That’s how the game works. It’s no different than using your action to dodge or disengage instead of taking an attack.

[remote wadi]

All right, gotta rapid fire responses again

[remote wadi]

Well, I mean sure. But I don't mind it terribly much. Could provide an interesting dynamic

[remote wadi]

Party is agreeing to travel at night

[knotty pasture]

Congrats on being the strongest character bar none

[remote wadi]

All of the current party has dark vision