dnd-discussion

[opal maple]

I don't agree with a DM stating that this has happened. Like we've seen here people disagree with the definitions here. Like lets say someone gets turned into a vampire. A player wants to kill them to "put them out of their misery" but the vampire is begging them not to do it. Two different people could think that killing the vampire is evil or good.

[woven flint]

I love it when the Joker says "It's Jonkling time" and jokes all over the place

[buoyant oar]

Another major problem with alignment in today's world is that everyone has gotten their ideas from alignment from meme alignment charts and nobody actually reads what they mean

[rigid delta]

There are only two instances of Joker being even remotely good and both of those involve meta shenanigans and a literal forced character change.

[worldly flare]

I mean I feel like killing someone who doesn’t want to die is pretty evil right?

[naive cedar]

this is very correct

[rigid delta]

A DM would only signify that after a choice is made. That's kind of the point.

[opal maple]

But its also a vampire that could go on to kill or turn an unknowable amount of people.

[naive cedar]

it’s particularly annoying when people are arguing over a character’s alignment and they clearly don’t know how the alignment system works

[woven flint]

That's a weird argument because plenty of evil, irredeemable people don't want to die either

[rigid delta]

You're not supposed to alignment shift just because you're transmogrified into another creature that's typically 'x' or 'y' unless you're also brainwashed.

[severe rampart]

I don't think anyone knows how it works at this point

[hot marlin]

So anyways I wanted to say that I vehemently disagree with the idea that a chaotic evil character is insane, murderous or sadistic. A chaotic evil character is chaotic because they would be extremely unlikely to sacrifice or to compromise their beliefs in the name of customs, traditions and laws. A chaotic character would not do the thing they don't want to do because it's required by society. And an evil character is extremely unlikely to sacrifice their health, their comfort or their privileges to defend the dignity of others and prevent their suffering. In fact, an evil character is more likely to attack the dignity of others and cause suffering. Take those two character traits, you get a chaotic evil character. Meaning, a character that is both chaotic and evil

[worldly flare]

Fair enough, I guess it’s more the idea that it’s unspecified if the vampire is evil. If I don’t know that, I’m going to assume it would be wrong.

[severe rampart]

Preach! Yes Incubus!

[naive cedar]

chaotic evil does not equal murder hobo

[buoyant oar]

The alignment descriptors in the player's handbook are exceedingly clear on what each alignment does.

[opal maple]

I just don't think that's the DM's call to make. Especially with the words 'good' or 'evil'. Its a value judgement. Its the person ultimately in charge of the game saying what you did was either right or wrong.

[remote wadi]

Good point

[woven flint]

Vampires are evil.
Undead are evil
Becoming an undead typically strips away all the positive traits people had in life.
Even if they don't become mindless.

[buoyant oar]

It's just that if I asked 100 5th edition players if they've read more than their specific class In the player's handbook

I would maybe get one or two I feel like.

[rigid delta]

Why wouldn't it be the DM's call to signify that you've done something evil, if you're not going to go along with D&D's version of morality?

[severe rampart]

I mean, if you were awoken from your eternal rest without any coffee would you be jolly?

[stuck shuttle]

I agree. For most things a single action is not going to cause a full change. In fact there’s many actions where the direction of alignment would be dubious or multifaceted.

[rigid delta]

I mean, if you start doing that then you just start getting people to argue that doing 'x' is not a bad thing because it makes this city of murderers more prosperous, etc.

[naive cedar]

If I asked the majority of 5e players if theyve read a players handbook that wasn’t 5e to begin with id probably get blank stares

[buoyant oar]

Insert joke that 5th edition players cannot read.jpeg

[woven flint]

I mean, seeing as how undeath is fueled by literal negative energy.

[hot marlin]

So, for an example of chaotic evil character you would never expect: Guts in the first few chapters of Berserk. Guts does not cares about protecting others, does not care about preventing their suffering, or even saving their lives. He's just here to kill apostles.

[unkempt roost]

Chaotic is essentially you are not held back by any law or code and more specifically will do things even if it is to their own detriment

[rigid delta]

People do the whole 'morality spiraling' thing to justify bad doing bad b.s. just for the lulz.

[pale kite]

I'm a total beginner, but I don't know if I made my character correctly xd
According to chatgpt, that's how you make a character xd

[buoyant oar]

For over 25 years I've taken alignment to be an and situation. You are lawful and you are good

[reef copper]

One thing i will point out is that people believing you are good does not make you good in dnd since being good is a world term not a social one

[opal maple]

At the risk of sounding like piers morgan, players don't come to dnd for a lecture of morality. Its fine for characters to react to it, to call a PC evil or wrong, but the DM doing it is sayint to the player "do not do that, that is evil".

[naive cedar]

that’s true but guts act nothing like that in the rest of the manga from what I r call

[unkempt roost]

Chaotic does it for the love of the game

[hot marlin]

Absolutely that is called character development. Notice that Guts never stops being chaotic though. He never cares about rules, laws and societies.

[worldly flare]

I mean, if I get bitten one day, I don’t think that automatically makes me evil. Maybe the vampire will kill and turn people, and if that is the case then of course you should kill it, but without any details other then “they doesn’t want to die and someone’s trying to kill them”, then doing so would be bad in my eyes.

[stuck shuttle]

ChatGPT is a very poor way to make a D&D character. If you want your character reviewed post it in #character-discussion , otherwise check out #learn-to-play / #dnd-newcomers

[opal maple]

"Your actions have caused you to be expelled from the golden sun society", fine. Your actions were evil, you have become evil. Do not agree with that.

[rigid delta]

The purpose is to signify that they are no longer a HERO as opposed to a villain, in accordance with the general pop-culture understanding of how the heroes of myth and legend would act or react.

[naive cedar]

ehhhhh. to me, chaotic needs some degree of intentional breaking of rules though. guts reads as more true neutral to me for most of the manga

[hot marlin]

But as the manga progresses, his positive interactions with other characters change him. He starts taking their dignity and their suffering into account.

[hot marlin]

Arguable, but yeah, sure. You do understand the point I am making, though

[woven flint]

Chaotic characters also typically don't care what they have to do to accomplish their goal

[opal maple]

BROOOOOOOO go read classic heroes of myth. Most of em would be chaotic evil lmao.

[buoyant oar]

Every time somebody uses Chad GPT for Dungeons& Dragons advice, I lose 32 seconds of my life. At this rate I'm going to die by 40.

[naive cedar]

I do yeah

[naive cedar]

Only 32 seconds? I lose a whole year

[rigid delta]

Is there anyone here that thinks the alignment system is meant to be static? Because, I'm sensing that some people here do.

Like, you can't shift from one to the other?

[buoyant oar]

Alignment system is never meant to be static for player characters. For outsiders it is.

[crimson gulch]

According to my math you passes away in the year 1230

[stuck shuttle]

I don’t think anyone has stated that alignment is static

[pale kite]

Aaaaa okey xd

[opal maple]

I do think it should shift, I just think the social dynamic of a DM doing it is icky. It gives me the ick.

[naive cedar]

I’m a ghost. Whoooooo

[buoyant oar]

However, alignment is not a pick what color t-shirt you're going to wear today

[opal maple]

You are smart. You are creative. You can think of something great. You do not need AI to think for you.

[severe rampart]

You're saying the even though you can change alignments it isn't as easy or quick as making an action that goes against your alignment

[naive cedar]

Fr I can be dumb and uncreative all by myself. I don’t need AI to do it for me

[stiff ivy]

There's a problem that in D&D lore good, evil, law and chaos are physical forces so change of alignment due to different magic things is a common thing like attuning on the Eye and Hand of Vecna changing your alignment to NE. But if you don't use this concept, you can think that good is altruism and evil is egoism while law/chaos line is about what borders your actions it could be inner code, religion testament or state laws

[hot marlin]

Essentially the only moment you need to ask whether or not a character is good or evil, or chaotic or lawful in actual game terms is when you have magical effects that meaningfully interact with alignment. Those effects are rare but do exist.

[rugged hawk]

Okay, I don't want politicians thinking for me either, then.

[naive cedar]

You shouldn’t let politicians think for you tho

[severe rampart]

Let's not get political in the DnD server

[hot marlin]

So I would argue that the superior policy with regards to alignment is to not write it down at character creation. Leave it blank on your sheet. And if and when such an effect happens in your game, then and only then should you figure it out

[pale kite]

Well =w= it was just that I didn't know how to do it and I only had the general concept

[severe rampart]

Google

[naive cedar]

Wait wait dnd….uhh….what alignment would, say, Frodo be? I always imagined neutral good

[opal maple]

IMO the more of those items there are, the more it makes sense for a DM to shift your alignment depending on what you do, since its an actual mechanic. Without anything it interacts with, it is just the DM saying "you're bad".

[stuck shuttle]

Free rules are both in #learn-to-play and in the pins of #dnd-newcomers

[worldly flare]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/creating-a-character#CreateYourCharacter

there are plenty of resources online! I can also help you if you need.

[severe rampart]

Hell, YouTube is also good, thousands of videos just made explaining in detail on how to make a character just for you

[rugged hawk]

NG to begin with. Drifting closer to CG/CN nearer the end, as the ring began to corrupt him.

[rigid delta]

It does shift, though. The point is that if you use the alignment system as a scale of values and morals and make it known to the player that you can change the first part and the second part of your alignment descriptor via your choices.

[opal maple]

Creating a character yourself is an important way of learning the game. When you get into the game you can't have chat GPT play for you. I expect your DM or other players would be happy to help you with character creation too. They're probably very excited to run your campaign.

[rigid delta]

You just have more leeway over the first half than the second half.

[buoyant oar]

Yes. Alignment for mortal creatures is malleable but only poorly written characters have a "lol Random" instant tonal shift

[rigid delta]

The second half exists to define where you've gone off the deep end.

[woven flint]

My Alignment?
Chaotic Goober.

[opal maple]

I think it works IF you set out some sort of code of values that the world works with that isn't necessarily the same as the DM's values.

[severe rampart]

We're 41 minutes into the conversation and I'm still unsure if I got the alignment of my character wrong

[woven flint]

As all fey should be

[hot marlin]

Let's try my test, shall we?
Is Frodo willing to sacrifice their health, privilege and/or comfort to prevent suffering or to defend the dignity of others?
Is Frodo willing to compromise their beliefs or sacrifice their health, privilege and/or comfort in the name of society's function, laws, customs or traditions?

[flat monolith]

I think our alignment is more about how you act in average and so if the average moves your alignment changes

[remote wadi]

I can help with that. How would you describe their actions?

[rugged hawk]

Okay, you did. Now go change it

[severe rampart]

They do not follow societal norms or laws, so they are chaotic

They also don't go out of their way to commit good, and they even con, steal, and hurt others, even if it is to survive

[opal maple]

Frodo is chaotic good. He actively shuns his societies customs and laws to self sacrafice himself for others.

[hot marlin]

I would say yes to both. Which would make a D&D character that would essentially be Frodo Baggins copy and pasted either lawful good or neutral good.

[unkempt roost]

I would say Frodo is lawful good even he wanted to kill Gollum but his own pity prevented that

[rigid delta]

Is there really meant to be that much debate over this? People have a general understanding of where the line of evil is. Like, discarding culture and religion, there are things that people universally do not want to have other people do to them.

[jovial shadow]

There doesn't have to be any guessing. The rule book clearly explains the definition of the alignments. Those are for game purposes, not real life or some movie you've seen. Just saying.

[remote wadi]

If they do things for purposefully negative outcomes, are they the most concerned about if it will benefit them?

[rigid delta]

Yeah. That's exactly it. The system is a description of the moral and valuistic perception of your choice.

[buoyant oar]

Bold of you to assume 5e players can read /s

[rugged hawk]

Reminder that Frodo cursed Gollum with the One Ring's own power to fall into the Crack of Doom if he laid hands on Frodo again.

[worldly flare]

I mean that’s emotion and not really a code right? Or am i misunderstanding?

[severe rampart]

Pretty much, yeah

[rigid delta]

Alignment shifts are SUPPOSED to be slow and gradual, but players do murder hobo nonsense for the lulz that don't make sense and force the GM and the mechanics of the system to say that they're evil now.

[unkempt roost]

It's arguable that the Ring itself was doing that

[opal maple]

Ehhhhhhhh. A lawful good character is probably going to slaughter their way through entire societies of creatures. If you're a goblin, a lawful good paladin is an evil character.

[buoyant oar]

If some DnD YouTuber ain't walking them through it while stuffing their opinions as "Optimal paths" new players aren't gonna make it. /s

[hot marlin]

But I must stress: You should not think of your character's alignment at any point except when targetted with an effect that meaningfully interacts with your alignment.

[rugged hawk]

Frodo was so close to the edge of his own sanity at that point that yeah, it's highly likely the One Ring used that opportunity to suggest/enforce through Frodo's desire, aye.

[remote wadi]

Then I would wager that your character is less chaotic neutral and more aligned with neutral evil

That's not to say that a neutral evil character is incapable of good, but they they are often going to screw someone else over to benefit themselves. Think goblins

[hot marlin]

Your character's alignment does not and should never affect how you play them.

[rigid delta]

We're getting into the weeds of morality based on the presumption of the behavioral traits of beings and creatures that do not run typical to D&D's basic heroes and villains premise.

[unkempt roost]

Even the description of the vision that Sam saw heavily implied that the ring was talking through Frodo

[flat monolith]

Or if you don’t know what to do in a role play scenario and need a frame of reference on how your character acts

[severe rampart]

Three different people have said my character is

Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil, and True Neutral

[hot marlin]

Your frame of reference should be your character's motivation, values and relationships.

[rigid delta]

This is why these discussions suck. They're never based around a consensus on what world we're talking about here.

[hot marlin]

And you know what those things have that alignment does not? They're a lot less ambiguous and there's a lot less debate

[opal maple]

I would argue there's no such thing as "typical" DND. Maybe back in 1980 alignment made sense like this because goblins were pretty much unthinking creatures that you could kill without worry, but in the modern era its pretty common for have some moral grey into a story.

[severe rampart]

And morality is a very complex, multi-layered subject that has no definitive answer

[rugged hawk]

Or at the very least was doing exactly as Galadriel said it would do: twist its bearer's wishes into something dark and evil. In this case, his words and intents.

[worldly flare]

Ok alignment is DUMB and STUPID, let’s talk about something else now, like Wizards!

[rugged hawk]

Wizards suck, sorc superiority. Next?

[severe rampart]

Or hear me out... maybe Dungeons or dragons

[tired stone]

I have had a dream, a D&Dream if you would

VOCALOID BARD COLLEGE

[worldly flare]

Wizards are peak.

[rugged hawk]

That's just way too many places on the internet with poor image control

[rigid delta]

This is what I mean...we can't have discussions because pedantic arguments are abound and everyone's tastes for story and morality are so wildly different.

[woven flint]

All class but Monk suck, clearly

[worldly flare]

I’ve never played a game in a dungeon before, I wonder what it’s like.

[severe rampart]

Bard is... bard

[woven flint]

"Bard is Bard!"

[opal maple]

This is why I say its not a useful system as is. It's outdated, it doesn't make sense anymore.

[severe rampart]

You should never tell people about games you play in dungeons, value your own privacy

[rugged hawk]

Like Saw but more whips and chains

[worldly flare]

Forcecage!

[remote wadi]

Chaotic Neutral and Neutral evil can trip up people a lot

Chaotic Neutral is someone who is more concerned about their own personal freedoms and morals. But unlike Neutral Evil, won't go out of their way to harm others to do it.

Think of a treasure chest inside of a dungeon. Chaotic neutrals would take the chest if they need it, Neutral Evil wouldn't just demand they have the chest, but likely kill others trying to take some of the gold for themselves

[severe rampart]

It's like we're echoes of each other, Echo

[stoic canyon]

Pardon-

[rigid delta]

The system isn't the problem. The people are. Lol.

[rugged hawk]

Privacy functionally stopped existing a few decades ago.

[opal maple]

That's not how game design works :P.

[rigid delta]

If you treat the system for what it is, a description of behavior sets, it works fine.

[severe rampart]

I must have missed that, I was still respecting everyone's privacy back then(I was in a dungeon playing a game)

[woven flint]

Lovitar followers be like:

[rigid delta]

But if you keep expecting it to be something it's not, then the whole thing blows up!

[worldly flare]

But yeah forcecage is great. 10/10 spell.

[remote wadi]

I can't exactly speak for True Neutral, though. I think they're literally just capable of anything

[keen kestrel]

wow tokki

[reef copper]

Forcecage, a fear for all high level characters

[glass granite]

Cmon Tokii

[woven flint]

I can't joke about Lovitar followers I guess

[severe rampart]

I can't believe you'd say that about my mother, Tokii

[remote wadi]

@severe rampart I hope that answers your questions

[stoic canyon]

Oh not his mom man

[naive cedar]

Loviatar is the funniest god tbh

[woven flint]

The Chad Ilmater followers
Vs
The Soyjack Lovitar followers

[rigid delta]

Side-note: Monks are absolutely fraudulent and I think I might just ban them from my games. 😭 😭

[reef copper]

Maybe use old monk

[worldly flare]

Do tell do tell.

[severe rampart]

Ask someone what's the worst DnD class, they would never say Bard

[woven flint]

Ilmater followers ENDURE!

Lovitar followers are just... freaky.

[rigid delta]

Super busted because acquisition of force damage.

[still plover]

I remain iffy on bards. I want to hear more about this monk thing, though.

[worldly flare]

Yeah force damage is great.

[rigid delta]

Like, why isn't there more than one enemy immune to force damage?!

[stuck shuttle]

That’s not really that bad imo

[glass granite]

Congratulations, you have trapped yourself with a shadow monk who’s put Darkness over you

[woven flint]

When all your followers are either Masochists or Sadists, you know your Deity portfolio is odd.

[stuck shuttle]

That just means monks get to do their normal damage often

[rigid delta]

There are some people here too young to know what those are.

[reef copper]

Why would you put the forcecage on yourself too as a caster

[severe rampart]

55 minutes later, the alignment chart finally stopped being the subject

[worldly flare]

Still trapped+ten minute duration

[woven flint]

I mean, that's literally what Lovitar as a diety is about.
Blame WOTC, not me.

[naive cedar]

shhhhhhhhhh don’t start it again

[worldly flare]

Wait darn shadow monks get darkness teleport or something right

[woven flint]

She's also mentioned in Baulders Gate 3, methinks lmao

[glass granite]

Yup

[severe rampart]

Incubus is resting, I believe we have a good 20 minutes before we can risk another

[glass granite]

But more so, what does the caster expect to do in this situation?

[woven flint]

We need incubus back in this chat

[rigid delta]

Heh.

[reef copper]

Die

[rigid delta]

Violently.

[glass granite]

Fair

[naive cedar]

tbf I’m pretty sure Loviatar is more ed Greenwood’s fault

[hot marlin]

I'm sorry, what? Everybody above the age of 12 knows what those words mean

[woven flint]

Absolutely.
Have you seen her design? 😭

[naive cedar]

I wasn’t going to saying anything but uh. yeah

[hot marlin]

I have been summoned

[naive cedar]

I love ed greenwood tbh. he’s hilarious

[woven flint]

I like the fact a Deity of Pain exists, but like... did we have to sexualize it? 😭

[worldly flare]

Teleport away.

[woven flint]

Her holy symbol is literally a thorned whip!

[hot marlin]

Hey, I did not start the alignment argument!

[glass granite]

First of all, force cage forces a save there
Second, with what spell?

[woven flint]

Then again, Ilmaters holy symbol is hands bound by red string...

[hot marlin]

Which is literally a torture instrument. Whips were used for torture long before they were associated with... Well, this.

[remote wadi]

So, I got some good news and bad news about yesterday's session

Bad news out of the way, our new Druid almost instantly bit the dust. She decided to talk to some horses in a bandit-esque camp and asked them what they were doing there and why not join us. A nat 20 later, 3 of the horses basically went "You know what? That's a fair point" and started following her

[woven flint]

It's truly sad, but I'm talking mostly about Lovitars design

[hot marlin]

When you see that horrifying scene in Twelve Years a Slave where that woman is whipped bloody, it's not sexualized. It's shown in its horror. Whips are horrific when they connect with flesh. You can kill someone lashing them.

[jovial shadow]

Which is the exact opposite of Role playing.

[worldly flare]

One you’re the one force caged, not me. Two Teleportation, Teleportation Circle, Dimension door, I’ve got options here.

[rigid delta]

Lol. I know you're speaking in hyperbole. But no. It was also a joke.

[hot marlin]

I was really not being hyperbolic

[hot marlin]

I think the first few writers of Loviatar conceived of the whip as her symbol because the whip is a symbol of punishment and domination. Remember, when the Forgotten Realms first were published, the dead three were not yet dead, and Loviatar was the partner of Bane. Bane being a god of domination and slavery. Loviatar was not meant to be sexualized at first, she was meant to be the goddess of the brutal punishment of those who disobeyed

[woven flint]

It's also insane to me that whips are only a d4 weapon in this game, I get the idea of a whip is to prolong suffering but..

[hot marlin]

We're starting this again? Okay we are. Please do elaborate

[worldly flare]

Also it’s a shame because whips are cool, I wanna be Indiana Jones damn it!

[naive cedar]

noooooo

[hot marlin]

I want it on record that it's not my fault

[glass granite]

Monks likely are gonna beat you in initiative, so unless you wanna force cage on top of your prone and grappled self I suggest you don’t do that.
As for teleportation, you gotta be careful with your choices cuz a lot require sight

[hot marlin]

Be a kensei monk.

Your whip will quickly be one of the best weapons in the game

[remote wadi]

The entire camp thought that her walking away with the horses meant she was stealing them and sent us into combat. She did do a number on the cannon fodder with them being drunk and the power of Spike Growth, but got her in a pickle with 2 of the captains. She did nit disengage and flee to the Fighter and did get some decent damage from... biting them? But eventually went down to a critical hit from a Scimitar. She got lucky and only had the lingering injury be a Festering Wound and got REALLY lucky I and the Fighter cleared them out enough to cast Cure Wounds safely bwcause she almost died from a nat 1 death save

[rigid delta]

Ah, that's much better. Actually typing on a keyboard.

As an off-topic from D&D in terms of real-life skills...who here can type without looking at their keyboard?

[woven flint]

Busting out the keyboard 😨 /joking /teasing

[rigid delta]

Sometimes, you need to feel the push of mechanical keys underneath the pads of your fingers.

[woven flint]

Truly

[rigid delta]

Pure mental satisfaction.

[hot marlin]

The keyboard on the phone or the keyboard on the computer?

[rigid delta]

I would assume that everyone has an easy time typing on (mobile) keyboard without looking.

[worldly flare]

Only Dimension Door needs sight. Although quite frankly I probably need a bit of time to create a counter strategy, I’m not super familiar with Monk.

[remote wadi]

I can occassionally do it but with the hello of a little airociffsct and it beinf from a phone and not a PC

And ges. This is all me not looking for this message

[rigid delta]

Solid effort.

[woven flint]

Monks aren't as hard to "counter" as they are to kill, in all fairness

[still plover]

So you went from "kinda bandity looking camp" to "let's steal some horses" to "oh no, we must self defence our selves against these probably bandits, lethal force it is!"

Players, eh?

[rigid delta]

I will admit that that's solidly far off from the word 'concentration', though. What, exactly, did your autocorrect think you were trying to spell?

[glass granite]

Teleportation circle takes too long and teleportation takes sight, though dimension door works

[cerulean monolith]

1. #non-dnd-topics
2. I feel like typing without looking at your keyboard is a necessary skill. In fact, most people should be able to type without looking at their keyboard, and only looking at the words they are typing, so that they know when a mistake is made and must be corrected. For example, when typing this, I misspelled "know" as "konw", which I remedied by using ctrl+backspace then retyping the word. I could have also used the arrow keys and delete button, though, because I also know where those are.

[rigid delta]

I honestly did not even know that was a channel. Cool-beans.

[worldly flare]

Teleportation doesn’t take sight, it’s anywhere on the same plane, any creatures you’re bringing just have to be within range.

[jovial shadow]

Good job. A Monk should try to grapple the Wizard and most Wizards won't have the Charisma level to save to teleport. Even if they did, if they are facing a Warrior of Shadow Monk, he can teleport as well.

[rigid delta]

To end this brief aside: It is, depending on the profession but that has mostly gone out of the window because...no one really has the need to use a PC to communicate over a mobile device.

Back to our regular D&D programming from this brief aside....

Monks absolutely are a Gruumsh's gift to the world of Faerun (DM's).

[glass granite]

Ah yeah mb

[worldly flare]

Also it doesn’t require hands, it’s just verbal components!

[remote wadi]

We were there to find a fortune teller. I also was very worried because we killed some Ravens presumably commanded by Strahd to guard a path forward and I stuffed them in my backpack

Was half tempted to use the bonfire to cook the ravens, but the bandits were basically working for Strahd and were soldiers. Called them bandits because I forgot the name

In the Druid's defense, I would have wanted to take out the bandits too. We did just reach level 4, had an okay-ish tem comp, and was not about to journey into the next land without wagons, gold, or horses. I just didn't think it would start out like that (super funny, though)

[woven flint]

I want to add, being grappled doesn't prevent somatic components.

[worldly flare]

It doesn’t?

[cerulean monolith]

Does it say it does?

[rigid delta]

Because you're not restrained.

[glass granite]

Not RAW no

[cerulean monolith]

The free rules are... well.. free

[remote wadi]

It was literally supposed to be the word autocorrect

[worldly flare]

Fair enough, it just seems kinda silly.

[rigid delta]

Ah.

[crimson gulch]

Restrained also does not restrict somatic components

[rigid delta]

What does?

[crimson gulch]

Incapacitated

[hot marlin]

Paralyzed

[rigid delta]

That makes zero sense.

[woven flint]

Petrified

[worldly flare]

Yeah, like it actively benefits me here but that feels so stupid.

[jovial shadow]

No because grappling isn't restrained. People get them confused

[crimson gulch]

That makes perfect sense you can still attack with weapons too, just at disadvantage

[rigid delta]

Well, it makes zero sense that knocking someone unconscious or paralyzing someone are the only conditions that affect MOVING YOUR HANDS.

[cerulean monolith]

The rules also say you must be able to perform the components. So, you could use the Improvise action to try and stop someone from being able to perform the components. But all of that would be up to DM adjudication.

[woven flint]

I mean, if I'm knocked out or stunned I don't think I can talk or move my hands to cast a spell

[glass granite]

Monks can stunning strike, so i can still do that, but still yeah

[jovial shadow]

Stunning which also gives the incapaciation condition

[rigid delta]

I didn't finish my full statement. It makes no sense that basically paralyzing someone is the only way to make them unable to move their hands.

[cerulean monolith]

im not even sure if Incapacitated stops you from performing somatics

[woven flint]

2024 stunning strike is also... magnificent

[crimson gulch]

Incapacitated means you can't take actions, so no spells

[cerulean monolith]

Oh, well yeah

[remote wadi]

Anyways, why I found that funny was because druid said in chat just now "I got gutted like a fish"

1. You didn't disengage from 2 captains surrounding you
2. You got hit by a critical hit which we knew was devastating and very likely
3. The common catchphrase of my character is literally "Careless mistakes lead to an early grave"

[cerulean monolith]

But it doesn't stop you from performing components explicitly. Just cuts off the route for you to have a need to perform them

[rigid delta]

Wouldn't it make sense that you would bind a mage's hands, feet, and basically gag them so they can't do spells?

[crimson gulch]

If you can't cast spells because you can't take actions youe not using any components

[jovial shadow]

It literally says you can take no action. Some of you folks need to read the rules before you comment. I said this respectfully.

[rigid delta]

Basically inflicting brain damage or using expensive potions/spells cannot be the only way to subdue a mage

[hot marlin]

That's actually the normal procedure. Which works. Until you realize that your prisoners need food and water

[woven flint]

Most spells do require you to see and barely any can be cast without verbal components so..

Darkness and Silence are THE counter

[hot marlin]

Or until it turns out the mage is a sorcerer with subtle spell

[woven flint]

Yeah, or just be a Sorcerer lol

[cerulean monolith]

Performing somatic components is not in of itself an Action. Also, saying "I said this respectfully" at the end of a disrespectful statement does not make the statement respectful

[rigid delta]

But you can't really feed them if they're unconscious, either. Unless you had IV drips in your medieval fantasy world.

[hot marlin]

They're not going to be unconscious forever. You bind someone's hands and feet for the moment they wake up, don't you?

[rigid delta]

No?

[remote wadi]

So basically as close as it can get to "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" as it could have gotten

And to be clear, if it was a mistake of picking less than ideal spells or something like that, I wouldn't bother them much about it. But if you're a squishy backliner and surrounded by 2 strong enemies, you should disengage and get out of there instead of choosing that hill to die on

[cerulean monolith]

You, uh also [said earlier](#dnd-discussion message) that the reason Grappled doesn't stop Somatic components was because it wasn't the same as the Restrained condition. But Restrained also doesn't limit Somatic components.

Some people should really read the rules before commenting.

[rigid delta]

You bind them even while they're asleep in case they can "sleep cast". lol.

[hot marlin]

What

[woven flint]

My Waterdeep crew and I have been good at knocking out and tying up high priority targets lmao

High priority for information and such)

[remote wadi]

What kind of witchcraft is that...?

[cerulean monolith]

the kind used by a witch, probably

[jovial shadow]

That would be a Utilization Action, correct? So that would mean one of your cohorts would have to use their action to do it

[cerulean monolith]

You can probably wait until after the battle

[rigid delta]

Goodness, I was joking. But you would bind their hands and feet even while they're unconscious so they cannot suddenly awaken and escape. Even if you wanted to keep them unconscious, you would also want to keep them bound in case someone has a possession spell or if ghosts are a huge thing in the world that are going around and possessing people.

[past blaze]

what, inline linking?
You just highlight what you want, and paste a link, and it'll automatically format it. [Like So](#dnd-discussion message) for a message link to your message I'm replying to.

Also, remember to check links before you click on them, folks

[woven flint]

You don't typically have to tie up anyone until the end of combat lol
Knocking someone unconscious doesn't immediately put them in a state of dying either.

[cerulean monolith]

Oh yes, always hover over inline links, or copy and paste them to make sure

[wide aurora]

Hi

[remote wadi]

Hopefully, that explains my problem with "optimization". They don't gotta be perfect, but that is another moment where someone made a blunder and I had to clean up after the mess before it got out of hand

[rigid delta]

We were sort of talking outside of mechanics.

[bright gazelle]

I want my players to face a powerful wizard next session but I'm wondering how many magic items would be reasonable for them to have.
So my question is: How many magic items are too many magic items?

[cerulean monolith]

thats not how playnig a game works

[rigid delta]

In terms of the general logistics of a situation.

[rough basalt]

Tying up people you've knocked out in combat ain't a bad idea tho

If you can afford the rope and have plans to turn them over to authorities or question them when they wake up or something

[woven flint]

The humble Thief Rogue utilizing an item as a bonus action:

[rough basalt]

Especially if they're spellcasters

[rigid delta]

Not everything that involves this game has to be based around how you interact with a mechanic. It could be discussion for a valid course of action within the confines of this game even with the mechanical bases around it.

[cerulean monolith]

https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium-images/br/dmg/magic-item-sheet.pdf
This is a guide for DMs on how many magic items to give out to the group in general per tier of play.

[crimson gulch]

I like casting silence on spellcasters and then grappling them with one hand and casting true strike with my dagger in the otherhand on my cleric

[rigid delta]

Tying someone up mid-combat is absolutely a valid action if you wanted to kidnap an enemy to interrogate later after you beat a hasty retreat.

[wide aurora]

I wanna play dnd but I can't become a dm or even a great player. (My friends is also on vacation) so can anyone teach me the way of playing dnd?

[rough basalt]

One of the new Forgotten Realm feats makes tying people up mid-combat pretty viable

[hot marlin]

Yes indeed

[rigid delta]

You'd have to sacrifice doing more damage, but your character might absolutely want to take someone with them to interrogate.

[rough basalt]

Also guarantees you can hold someone hostage against humanoids or other enemies that may care for their allies.

[woven flint]

Solution:
Kill everyone and save your target for last!
(Joking, I know this isn't always possible)

[cerulean monolith]

Not necessarily when you're doing something that already has a mechanic. Ignoring rules that exist to the game is objectively not the 'correct' way to play. Doesn't mean you're bad for doing it, or that it's unfun or something like that, but it is 'wrong', as much as sucha thing can exist in this kind of game.

[rigid delta]

Assuming you're okay with taking hostages to begin with.

[remote wadi]

Me, or someone else?

If it's me, that... kind of is? If you are a squishy druid and can't take damage that well, you should probably disengage and run away from the 2 captains instead of trying to go down swinging. They almost did, had it not been for me, the only one who could heal them at the time. Add a nat 1 to the death saving throw, and it'll be apparent for why I worded it that way.

It was an objectively bad choice, they almost died for it, and I was the only one who could save them

[unkempt roost]

Take your target hostage mid battle (holding a blade to their throat) and make a retreat

[rough basalt]

True, but if you're trying to play someone who tries not to kill when applicable it's a viable strategy

[rigid delta]

I feel like you're misunderstanding the point of a conversation that was being had as it pertained to the internal logic of a world that you're actively playing in.

[cerulean monolith]

i was not talking with you and in fact generally agree

[woven flint]

Orcus Cultist: My friend, we WANT to die. /joking

[rough basalt]

Like I have a paladin that won't do killing blows against "people"

[remote wadi]

Oh. Yeah, it was a little vague about who it was directed to

[rigid delta]

I'm not trying to be confusing with the things I'm saying, but I feel like there's a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding that's happening here.

[rigid delta]

Twas I, fair adventurer.

[remote wadi]

Gotcha

[jovial shadow]

That's unusual. That's historically something for the Cleric

[rigid delta]

Speaking of liches, I would really like to DM that vecna module but I have heard that it kind of is iffy on the beginning...like every other module out there.

Is there a module out there that doesn't require a lot of tweaks for the storytelling?

[rough basalt]

My Paladin wanted to be the "ideal hero" like a paladin that saved her.
So it was fun RPing her struggling with the reality of trying to become that.

[jovial shadow]

Modules are like everything else: guidelines. You are free to modify it to your own DM'ing style

[rough basalt]

Unfortunately the dm sucked

[woven flint]

Looks at all of my Clerics who have killed people without any qualms

Am I a bad Cleric?

[rigid delta]

Depends on the deity...

[rough basalt]

So someday I wanna play her again

[rigid delta]

I'm aware of that. But I kind of just want to play a module all the way through without having to change anything.

[remote wadi]

Were they done to protect your party?

[woven flint]

My War Cleric was a Worshipper of the Doombringer.

I think its kinda obvious he'd bring doom.

[stoic canyon]

Naaaaah you the goodest of them

[rough basalt]

I felt like I managed to do a good job of playing a character that advocates for law in a party without being disruptive.

[jovial shadow]

As most you know, Clerics used to be restricted from using bladed weapons. So they could only use maces and hammers so as not to spill blood (just ignore the splattered skulls lol).

[woven flint]

My knowledge Cleric doesn't kill people if he feels he could gather information from them, and if he does, he's often good for sparing them and turning them in to law enforcement

[remote wadi]

Lawful Neutral, huh? Rare, but it sounds pretty good

[rough basalt]

Basically she wouldn't chastise people for killing in battle cause "they attacked us first and I can't hold you to the same ideals I hold myself" but she'd try to edge other PCs towards being more merciful.

[rigid delta]

Honestly don't understand why people thought maces were non-lethal.

[woven flint]

My Grave Cleric...
I mean, he's a Grave Cleric.

[glass granite]

Kitty

[rough basalt]

I have another character like that

[woven flint]

Yes, him is kitty.

[rigid delta]

Or hammers, for that matter.

[rough basalt]

A dragonborn monk

[remote wadi]

Yeah, I played enough KCD1 to know how lethal maces are

[woven flint]

My Orc Mercy Monk wouldn't kill PEOPLE, but he'd kill monsters.

[rough basalt]

Yeah historically Maces and Spears dominated warfare.

Due to their ease of use for how effective they were

Cause you don't need trained skill to bash someone over the head with a big stick, just the strength to do so

[rigid delta]

Aw. It's too bad Eye of Ruin isn't 1 -20.

It's 10-20 and the prologue to it is just level 3.

[rough basalt]

A pretty good module to pair with it for a 1-20 experience is CoS

[remote wadi]

By the way, I wanted to ask chat

Are there any magic weapons that benefit long range damage, accuracy, or critical chance/damage?

[rigid delta]

Eh, I want a module that makes consistent sense from beginning to end. Combining Curse and Ruin doesn't really fit well.

[woven flint]

My Goliath elements monk,while being a good aligned individual mutually fell in love with a Demon in combat lmao

He's actually helping him become a more caring and merciful individual, even if he does still do bad things lmao

[rugged hawk]

Well yeah, smashing and stabbing has been humanity's primary go-to's for tens of thousands of years.

[rough basalt]

All standard magic weapons +1 to +3 give more hit bonus and damage bonus

[rigid delta]

I wanted to do Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but that requires you to handwave the dumb opening to that module and starting with Lost Mine.

[rough basalt]

But certain magic items like Vicious Weapons for example do an additional 2d6 on top of the weapon damage instead of increased modifier

[rigid delta]

But I have yet to have a group literally get through Lost Mine without falling apart because of scheduling.

[rough basalt]

Yeah campaigns usually fall apart

[rigid delta]

GRAHHH

[rugged mortar]

Daggerheart?

[jovial shadow]

If you run out of adventure ideas I recommend searching for adventures/campaigns from the 80's under AD&D and "Basic D&D", and just update the stat blocks to 2014 or 2024. I have found many of those modules to be of better quality than they are today.

[rough basalt]

A lot of 5e anthologies and adventures are just old DnD modules

[remote wadi]

So I wanted to know if there are any for more specific things
Like being able to crit from a 19 as well

[rough basalt]

I don't think there's an item that gives that feature

[rigid delta]

It's not that I have no ideas, I just don't want to do homebrew. I'd just rather use a pre-built module.

[rough basalt]

But that's off the top of my head I could be wrong

[rugged mortar]

Make one

[hot marlin]

Define "monsters"

[rigid delta]

I'm lazy and would rather not tear what remains of my hair out trying and failing to plot out a general storyline. lol.

[jovial shadow]

The Fighter Champion subclass?

[rugged mortar]

I bet there are pre-made online

[rigid delta]

Are we really going to be pedantic about what the game defines as a monstrosity?

[rough basalt]

Well it does depend

[rigid delta]

And I thought we were done with morality/alignment discussion?

[rough basalt]

Cause not all people in DnD worlds are humanoids

Some people are Fey, Elementals ect.

[rigid delta]

"But not all monsters are non-humans".

Blah, blah, blah.

[hot marlin]

Ah, monstrosity, yes. That is a creature type!

[rugged mortar]

Yap

[jovial shadow]

I found this entire server to revolve around Pedantry. More so than the Website or Reddit

[hot marlin]

But the question is not what the game defines. The question is how the character defines the limit

[rigid delta]

I concur.

[rough basalt]

Like killing a Carrion Crawler is no different than killing a predatory animal.

[remote wadi]

Which is a little annoying because there's apparently a magic items that automatically makes your Strength beyond jacked

[hot marlin]

A carrion crawler, sure. But what about a hag?

[rugged mortar]

Stand in front of one than tell me the difference

[remote wadi]

That means giving up my other subclass, Assassin

[woven flint]

Beasts, Monstrosities, other things that aren't capable of reason typically, but it's hard to actually define monster lots of tines

[vagrant quartz]

Aaaaaa

[rough basalt]

Usually a monster that disguises itself as a person to hunt what it preys on.

[hot marlin]

Alright, yeah, so stuff that is... Animalistic, without speech.

[rugged hawk]

I basically play DnD these days as my own DM following the rulesets built specifically for that, using the contents of adventures, campaigns, and sourcebooks I have to build a loose story based around my current char's themes and goals. So like my Water Sorc has an ongoing thing with One-Shot Coastal Adventures, Saltmarsh, and Elemental Evil going on, whereas my warlock explores the more dragon/undead-related locales.

[vagrant quartz]

Online dnd ended early bcs SOMEONE FELL ASLEEP MID FIGHT

[rigid delta]

Can we put it to a vote that everyone who engages in pointless pedantry just for the lulz has to listen to Never Gonna Give You Up on repeat?

[crimson gulch]

That's one way to do it, I love lost mine

[rigid delta]

I use another system for that.

[vagrant quartz]

RAAAAAAHHHHH I'M SO MAD IT WAS A BACKSTORY RELATED ONE TOO! AND IT WAS MY BACKSTORY 😭

Now I'll have to wait for God knows how long

[rigid delta]

The module literally recommends that you do so, lol. It's why I did it.

[rugged mortar]

An monster holding a gem that does so or was banded

[woven flint]

Hey man, he made an oath to spare anything that's capable of reason, if he has to fight a monster or beast for survival, he's gonna kill it lmao

[rugged hawk]

You will share this knowledge, I must possess it

[rigid delta]

I shall DM it to you if you're comfortable with that.

[jovial shadow]

True fact: "never gonna give you up" was one of the first songs I heard when I first visited a dance club , when I was stationed in Germany

[rugged hawk]

For a moment, I thought you meant Dungeon Master

[woven flint]

That's hilarious, but it's also a good song

[rigid delta]

Surprised it wasn't discotech.

[jovial shadow]

It had the disco ball!!!

[rigid delta]

As expected.

[rugged hawk]

Okay, but how about a Disco Bhaal?

[rugged mortar]

One that floats over its head

[woven flint]

I agree

[rigid delta]

We absolutely are not doing a Austin Powers themed encounter with the Dead Three.

[rugged mortar]

And when you dance with it the light goes out and it becomes a wrath

[hot marlin]

Fun (false) fact: Before his ascension, Bhaal was an avid dancer and had once been a professional in his troupe, until he was kicked off for killing and eating three other dancers for once being off-beat.

[rugged hawk]

Aw, and here I was gonna cast Withers as Goldmember

[vagrant quartz]

I like pickles

[glass granite]

Yo same

[left creek]

me too

[woven flint]

Is Withers an undead or is he just a fella that looks like that?

[rigid delta]

I prefer sweet pickles over dill pickles.

...I wonder if there's some type of magical pickle emporium in NeverWinter.

[rough basalt]

God

[woven flint]

Ah. Fair

[naive cedar]

he’s implied to be ||jergal||

[rigid delta]

Technically it's both, but that's spoilers.

[woven flint]

||Jergal?|| NOT being a bum? Since when?!

[naive cedar]

||He finally got off his lazy bum and is (kind of) doing something about those three kids he gave his car keys||

[vagrant quartz]

Now I want magical pickles, someone homebrew some please

[rigid delta]

Isn't this kind of a spoiler? The game is only two years old.

[rugged mortar]

Multi verse pickles theoretically exist

[rigid delta]

They absolutely exist. There are also pickles that can turn you into a ghost upon consumption. Or, you know, literally anything else.

[naive cedar]

I mean I didn’t say who the person or who the three kids are

but I’ll spoil it

[woven flint]

Fun fact: Summon Aberration requires pickled Tentacles to cast

Therefore, pickles indeed exist in all of the forgotten realms

[rugged mortar]

Yes true

[vagrant quartz]

So aberrations are just fond of pickles?

[woven flint]

Perhaps

[vagrant quartz]

Today I got a new wondurus item, yuppie I WILL ABUSE IT HEHEHEH

[rigid delta]

I'm thinking of trying to run either Princes or Descent...

[viscid chasm]

Aberrations are evolved pickles.

[woven flint]

New Objective unlocked:
Offer a mindflayer a pickle

[rigid delta]

I just want a group of people that have a consistent schedule, gods damn it.

[vagrant quartz]

😭🙏🏻 will you do it for a Scooby snack?

[viscid chasm]

My friend, your brain is the only pickle that mindflayer will eat.

[naive cedar]

could a Mindflayer eat a pickle?

[rigid delta]

If it were a garnish for a plate of brains, yes.

[woven flint]

Imma be so real, I'd chill with an Illithid, they're friend shaped

[vagrant quartz]

Not after the romance option theyr not

[woven flint]

Watch me.

[vagrant quartz]

You know what I mean

[naive cedar]

Uhhhh keep playing then 😅

[woven flint]

I'll romance that whole ass hivemind.

[rigid delta]

You'd have to constantly be making Int saving throws. Lol.

[naive cedar]

lol

[woven flint]

I haven't played Baulders Gate 3 and don't plan on it

I know things that go on, however....

[vagrant quartz]

That one wizard , "watch me"

[naive cedar]

Ah mb

[woven flint]

My Harengon Bladesinger with 30 int when he finally learns he's attracted to aberrations /joking

[knotty scroll]

Anyone got any further ways to increase chara speed besides the following?
Monk levels, bracers of celerity, boon of speed, speedy feat, elixir of speed from artificer, haste spell, boots of speed, longstrider

[rugged hawk]

Y-...you are aware that via instant global communication and chatrooms like this, that humanity has clumped into what is effectively a multitude of hive minds?

[woven flint]

Be a Tabaxi lol

[vagrant quartz]

TODAY I got the drawback of my actions, a literal GORILLA passed my int save, I BLAME CARTOMACER FEAT FOR NOT GIVING ME A +1 IN INT

[blissful ibex]

Tabaxi species trait

[woven flint]

Rubs my hands together

Nah, I only romance mindflayers, sorry

[vagrant quartz]

Bro got that squid in him

[woven flint]

:3

[empty thicket]

Like in rick and morty with "unity"?

[naive cedar]

reminds me of one of the romances in swtor

[woven flint]

My Lawful Good Goliath Monk romanced a DEMON

don't test the boundaries of my freak.

[vagrant quartz]

HELP

[glass granite]

Here to help

also fair warning don’t do too many full caps

[empty thicket]

i will try to find a big lady so she can make Harood have offspring capable of fight gods. Or i will end up with a goblin and have lil strong machines of chaos

[vagrant quartz]

Sorry

[unkempt roost]

Heresy

[woven flint]

They're still lovers to this day, he moved in with him in the hells lmao

[glass granite]

You haven’t done it yet, just a heads up for the future

[vagrant quartz]

On another note, how do I tell someone theyr playing like garbage and what whould be the better choises but not backseat them

[viscid chasm]

What do you mean by playing?

Roleplaying? Combat?

[woven flint]

That was also a level 20 PC and, in the campaigns lore, one of a few demigods chosen to help take down evil giant deities so, I truly believe he and his demon boyfriend are perfectly challax in whatever realm they're in

[vagrant quartz]

Combat

Warlock is just REFUSING TO USE HEX and just casting eldridch blast raw....

[rigid delta]

Maybe I should do Frostmaiden instead...

[knotty scroll]

That allows a single burst of additional speed, I'm looking for longterm, minimum 1m preferably 10m-1hr

[woven flint]

You don't HAVE to do the Eldritch Blast hex combo if you don't want to.
Doesn't mean they're trash lol

[vagrant quartz]

That's the point... They want to deal big dmg when I told them they literally still refuse 3 sessions later so I'm I'm just stumped

[woven flint]

My Celestial Warlock doesn't use Eldritch Blast, he burns people with fire and radiant energy, he doesn't associate with elder beings

[woven flint]

He's also a kickass swordsman

[bronze wave]

The first ever warlock to not use E blast

[woven flint]

He stands on buisness

[vagrant quartz]

I get not wanting to do something, but if you want to and you don't I don't get it

[naive cedar]

Imagine playing warlock and not using Eldritch blast

[woven flint]

Not hard to imagine
Eldritch Blast is no longer the only viable warlock combat option

[bronze wave]

Just tell them out right lol, if they say it’s for rp reasons respect that.

[naive cedar]

I get that but it’s like playing a wizard and not using fire ball

[bronze wave]

Tbh or just let them play suboptimal I doubt it’s that big of an effect

[woven flint]

I have a Wizard who doesn't use fireball.
He's a bladesinger.

[vagrant quartz]

T-T it's not for rp I'm sure , but i don't want to babysit them

[vagrant quartz]

I'm also not going to take fireball at lvl 5,

[blissful ibex]

Mine is only 5 levels of warlock but I use pact of the blade, improved pact weapon, and thirsting blade instead >:3

[woven flint]

Well, he only used fireball on occasion before deciding it was for WIMPS

[rigid delta]

Unless the person is actively sabotaging their own turn or the combat success of the group, I'd say that it isn't worth broaching.

[naive cedar]

That’s fair tbh I can respect not just going with the most obvious option

[blissful ibex]

and then 15 levels druid so I have 2d8 primal strike damage to go with it

[bronze wave]

Then just bring it up. Maybe they don’t know

[woven flint]

I have had Clerics and Paladins I've played that never prepare revivify lol

[rigid delta]

Pure evil.

[woven flint]

I'm just DIFFERENT /Lh

[vagrant quartz]

I guess you're right, but I already have my wizard to deal with, curse you options!!!

[blissful ibex]

no revivify means having toi pay more for raise dead later

[rigid delta]

I would assume that they also carry spare the dying.

[woven flint]

Nah, most parties I'm in are fine with their characters dying lol

[rigid delta]

If not, that's truly blasphemous.

[vagrant quartz]

Guys question

Should I or should I not multiclass at lvl 6 bard, (spirits)

[woven flint]

Nope.

I'm just a good healer :>

[blissful ibex]

I mean, a freed up prepared spell is a freed up prepared spell

[rigid delta]

Your bard is at level 6?

[vagrant quartz]

5

But gonna be soon!

[bronze wave]

lol you dotn need to baby sit them just ask and move on with the answer

[rigid delta]

Ah. So you're starting at a bard and are asking what you should multiclass into after you hit six.

[blissful ibex]

current spirits or UA spirits?

[rigid delta]

I would say that depends on how experienced you are at multiclassing.

[woven flint]

Fun Fact: you don't have to have "Staple" spells to play an effective character, just have fun, as that's the most efficient someone can be is if they're playing in a way THEY enjoy

[vagrant quartz]

Uuuuh, I don't know -

[blissful ibex]

Generally it's best not to multiclass unless you know exactly what you're doing
but like, a few sorcerer levels can be nice, especially spellfire sorcerer

[livid owl]

Knock is a spell I keep wanting to add but can never justify lolll

[rigid delta]

I disagree on the usage of efficiency, but I agree with the spirit of the statement. So, I'll let it slide.

We've gone over our pedantry quota for today.

[woven flint]

And that's valid

[rigid delta]

Not all parties have a problem with doors.

[crimson gulch]

Knock has prevented at least 5 total party kills in my games

[woven flint]

Keep that Niche spell, it's better to have something situational than to be in a situation and not have it 🧐

[rugged hawk]

Doors are only a problem for pissants too weak to smash them

[vagrant quartz]

My dm is super cool, he decided that I get access to the whole spirit table immediately tho, so that's why I felt I don't have to progress much anymore , basically he lets me roll the 12 even tho my bardic die is lower, I still keep the damage and heal numbers with my actual die tho

[crimson gulch]

Maby closer to 8?

[livid owl]

WHAT
how I MUST know

[rigid delta]

Knock would work on a portcullis, wouldn't it?

[blissful ibex]

My spell list is mostly utility, CC, buffs, heals, and a bit of damage >:3

[crimson gulch]

Blocked off escape routs from instant death

[livid owl]

crasy....

[vagrant quartz]

I love this, it's so coolio I don't have to wait for lvl 10000 to get funny tale

[blissful ibex]

I'm alergic to instantanious damaging spells

burning spell slots to do basicly nothing sucks

[woven flint]

I'm allergic to spells that only do damage and don't have interesting effects afterwards

[livid owl]

Does magic missile fall under that category

[woven flint]

Synaptic Static is my favorite instantaneous damage spell because it's rider effect can be NASTY

[rugged hawk]

Sorcerous Burst is frankly a pretty good cantrip for your damage, maybe couple it with Chromatic Orb and Fireball later.

[livid owl]

sorcerous burst is crazyyyy if you have good luck but it's 2024 only.... tragedeigh

[blissful ibex]

also, why is there no eldritch invocation for weapon mastery >:c

[crimson gulch]

There's a feat

[vagrant quartz]

Question, which is cooler, divine soul sorcerer with death related god or shadow sorcerer

[rugged hawk]

Frankly, I have no qualms whatsoever about freely mixing any Marketplace content, regardless of 2014, 2024, or Partnered.

[livid owl]

first one definitely

[blissful ibex]

there is
but I only have 4 feat/ASI slots and there are better things to take than just a single weapon mastery

[livid owl]

I second this!!! Sadly not all DMs do, though...

[crimson gulch]

Then live with your choice

[blissful ibex]

true, but still XD

[rugged hawk]

I'm of the opinion that if WotC makes the mistake of putting it up for cash on Marketplace, there's no good reason to not allow it.

[woven flint]

Solution: Eat the martial to get weapon masteries.
Take their power

[blissful ibex]

rework improved pact weapon to give mastery instead of the 'can be used as a spell focus' you allready get in the new version of pact of the blade >:3

[rugged hawk]

I did a thing with the Grim Hollow's version of Humans, which get 3 bonus weapon proficiencies. I sacrificed two of those extra proficiencies for mastery of a single weapon type.

[karmic junco]

Hi yall!! Im thinking about doing some dnd book style artwork of the different sub species I made for my campaign: D

[vagrant quartz]

I think my dm gave me one of the most disgusting items ever, it has a lot of scary stuff involved but I think it's pretty insane,

I can force an ally to use theyr reaction to litterally shield me 🙏🏻😭

[woven flint]

I'm currently working on my Psychopathic Centaur Barbarians voice lmao

[livid owl]

EVIL oh
I need that for my bloodhunter he already has curse of the fallen puppet. It'd be very on brand for him.

[glass granite]

Does it specify ally?

[woven flint]

I'm passionate about voices with my characters :3

[vagrant quartz]

Yes

[glass granite]

Ah shame

[livid owl]

Tokii I made a bunny centaur
Sadly I'm sending her to the glue factory

[scarlet marsh]

I cheat by knowing Gothic and just using that language to make up fantasy accents for certain characters

[vagrant quartz]

It's a little crown, I can basically force an ally next to me to jump in front of the attack and take the Dmg instead, they do get reduced dmg!

[woven flint]

My Centaur is partially Orcish.

[livid owl]

HELL YEAH!!

[woven flint]

Jiddurn Moonscorched is the name
Bloody Brawling and glory kills is the game 😎

[livid owl]

Amazing...

[woven flint]

He branded the Zhentarims symbol on his chest because he thought tattoos didn't show enough Devotion

[livid owl]

Oh!
Well !

[woven flint]

:3

[vagrant quartz]

The worst part is, if I wear it constantly for 3 days I litterally get possessed, if I clean it more then once a day I become obsessed and I refuse to take It of, if it's not perfectly clean it loses any ability, when I wake up from short/long rest I can choose between shield effect or boost on 4 charisma tests.

[knotty scroll]

I like going for ranger-centaurs and such to get them a climbing speed, to counteract the hoof thing
Also
OORAH Zhentarim

[woven flint]

OORAH

[idle oar]

Watch the all caps please!

[woven flint]

Sorry! Hello Undying :>

[vagrant quartz]

Hello person I never met

[knotty scroll]

Lawful Neutral Zhent agent. I am just following orders

[woven flint]

Centaur and Minotaur Barbarians are my favorite Barbarians.

[glass granite]

This is our resident immortal noob. Say hi, they have the power to smite you

[empty thicket]

Fighter champion half orc feel too nice

[vagrant quartz]

I see

[empty thicket]

if you land a critic you get another attack for free, more chances of critic, add haste from allies. Enjoy

[vagrant quartz]

Hello almighty person, I like pickles , have a nice existance

[scarlet marsh]

You might like my minotaur barb; Maurog Steakass

[vagrant quartz]

Lol

[woven flint]

I had a Minotaur Giant Barbarian, and the way this man fought was pure ignorance, he'd just kill you and keep walking past your corpse as if he didn't just rip you in half, average Tuesday

[empty thicket]

"hey waiter, i want a STEAK"
Maurog Steakass: "Yeah? what you need?"

[livid owl]

Insane.... really good

[woven flint]

When I play a Barbarian, I'm not only Belligerent, I'm numerous.
As in all over the damn place!

Barbarian mitosis

[scarlet marsh]

She's designed to have body paint that depicts butcher cuts for beef around her body. If people want to eat her, they gotta kill her. Sort of a morbid joke.

[vagrant quartz]

Guys should I change my eladrin season to teleport my barbarian onto the backline?

I don't really feel like it

[empty thicket]

for now i didnt had a chance of being a barbarian
Still made one some time ago, Dragonborn barbarian that would use a Halberd like principal weapon and sometimes his breath

[glass granite]

Then no

[livid owl]

My first character was a Barbarian
They were very quiet up until they saw children in a cage and flew into a state of "i will to kill these hags what entrapped these children."

They weren't that verbose though

[vagrant quartz]

Yeah, he's traumamaxxing atm don't feel like making him feel joyous, we stay in winter forever 🔥🔥🔥

[woven flint]

My Minotaur Giant Barbarian had no respect for spellcasters, armor users or anything smaller than him
He was so fun to play because he was my first and only character to not be a worry wart or give a damn about the parties health because their fighting styles sickened him

[livid owl]

LOVE that honestly

[vagrant quartz]

Honestly guys, when is it okey to run away from a fight?

[woven flint]

When you're dead.

[livid owl]

when it's against a dragon

[woven flint]

There is no running away!!!!

[scarlet marsh]

Steakass would prolly annoy tf outta him

[glass granite]

When it’s not worth it

[vagrant quartz]

But scary!

[remote wadi]

Honestly, you know what would be a good addition to the dm/campaign channel? Having tags so you can quickly filter through them

[woven flint]

Not as scary as me!!!

[vagrant quartz]

If we fight we might lvl up, but my have a big chance of exploding into dust

[glass granite]

There is no escape
-# cues hades music

[vagrant quartz]

We had to end the session mid combat due to barbarian falling asleep

[woven flint]

He had respect for Dwarves and Orcs, however, because he was in a pirate crew with a bunch of them lol

[glass granite]

Better weaker than dead

[remote wadi]

Especially when sometimes a campaign can be almost perfect, but just impossible because of work schedule

[glass granite]

Maybe pitch the idea in #server-feedback

[woven flint]

Minotaur Pirate lad
(Believe it or not, Minotaur Pirates are surprisingly a common occurrence in the forgotten realms lol)

[vagrant quartz]

Guys, what spells should I take at lvl 5 wizard, (don't say fireball I already know(

Divination ↑)

I need to carry on the DPS side of things a bit

[tawdry sentinel]

Webbedy web

Hypnotic pattern

[vagrant quartz]

I was thinking minute meteors

[keen hemlock]

My favorite thing about this game is that I can just make a abhorrent stupid build and somehow make it work

Halfling Zealot barbarian is my current idea because my friend said it would be funny

[blissful ibex]

Clairvoyance, Counterspell, Dispell Magic, Haste, Hypnotic Pattern, Leomund's Tiny Hut , Melf's Minute Meteors > Fireball honnestly, Phantom Steed, Remove Curse, Sending, Tiny Servant
are all good non-fireball 3rd level wizard spells

pick from those or pick whatever you find fun , the best spell is the one you have the most fun casting

[eager marsh]

minute meteors is fun but will perform worse than fireball/lightning bold/pulse wave since upfront burst damage is generally better

[vagrant quartz]

I think I'll actually wait for counterspell, dm is not really catering to my wizarding so we have been fighting mostly non magical stuff

[blissful ibex]

but you can run both, then you have upfront spells going off while also firing off sustained spells

[blissful ibex]

can probs cut dispell magic and remove curse for a bit as well then

[vagrant quartz]

Yeah exactly

[eager marsh]

you'd unironically get better results and a cleaner encounter clear just casting fireball twice than meteors one turn and fireball after or the like

[vagrant quartz]

I just have so much stuff I wanna take,

[eager marsh]

depending on teh nature of your campaign, sending can be super useful

[blissful ibex]

also, enemies aren't always cleanly stacked up for you

[vagrant quartz]

The problem is we have the big ginormous party so i'll always hit at least 3 party members with fireball

[blissful ibex]

forgot to list it >.>

[eager marsh]

dont need to be. The upfront damage is still better. even getting 2 people within fireball range is objectively good

[vagrant quartz]

I think I'll nab web and something dmgy

Since I forgot to take web T-T

[blissful ibex]

I just have a vendetta against instantanious damage spells

web is good

plant growth is better but not every class can get plant growth

also it's a level later so fair

[vagrant quartz]

I already have chromatic orb and spray of cards/mind spike

[eager marsh]

unfortunately, the game is explicitly balanced around 3 turns of combat being teh norm. Instantaneous damage spells therefore end up objectively better choices because of how turns, numbers, and mechanics operate. I say this as someone that prefers sustained damage in theory

[blissful ibex]

I don't think I can remember the last time I had a combat last 3 rounds

they're either over in 1~2 or like 5+

[vagrant quartz]

True

[blissful ibex]

in both AL and across two campaigns

[olive wasp]

That’s true, it’s usually really long or really short (long in time but short amount of turns)

[blissful ibex]

maybe for higher level play?

[eager marsh]

being over faster is even more of an argument in favor of instantaneous damage spells. Going above is usually abnormal in my experience unless things are going poorly

3 turns (or less) is the standard so seeing even faster fights is still within expectations

[vagrant quartz]

I honestly don't really like spray of cards, but I am playing a cartomancer sooo I kinda had to take it xD

[blissful ibex]

got a campaign that just hit 4, my AL is at 3, and another campaign at 7 but it's beed dead in the water for some time due to shceduling
also 2014 and I'm not really a huge fan of 2014

[eager marsh]

oh yea being asked to play a 2014 rulset after 2024 came out just feelsbad

[vagrant quartz]

Blind is huge tho

[blissful ibex]

highly detrimential to martial classes and classes like druid, cleric, bard who focus more on sustained damage spells

[lavish flame]

Sending and See Invisibility have gone super far in my games

I like having invisible stuff, and communication is difficult across a continent

[blissful ibex]

down to the sort of DM you have, spell/feature coverage on other party members, and the sorts of utilities you like for your non damaging stuff

[eager marsh]

martial value doesn't change much and as single target experts, I'd argue shorter fights favor them eliminating high value targets faster

[vagrant quartz]

I have a question

[glass granite]

I have an answer

[eager marsh]

42

[vagrant quartz]

How do I nudge my party into attacking the backline

[eager marsh]

You tell them, verbally, at the table or in character

[blissful ibex]

mages, CC, support, and healers get hit first

[hot marlin]

The backline of enemies? By having the enemies in the backline be clearly dangerous

[eager marsh]

keep in mind that terrain and positioning can prevent them from even trying

[blissful ibex]

longbow + sharpshooter and mobility spells my beloved

[vagrant quartz]

I told them that, then they procedded to focus on the big beefy guy that ran towards us T-T

[blissful ibex]

remind them
or ignore the big beefy guy and attack them yourself

[eager marsh]

Vortex Warp my beloved. "Hey fighter, see that guy. go murder him for me. Get teleported"

[glass granite]

“Those blasted archers are giving us hell uncontested! Let’s give them death!”

[vagrant quartz]

Agreed

[empty thicket]

having enemies in the backlines making problems,
Call it a caster concentrating or preparing a spell so they can use their turn to interrupt that cast
Some archers, guys that throw bombs from the back, etc. etc.
Some leader that give buffs to the enemy units

[rugged hawk]

It's simple, attack their backlines until they learn from painful experience (or TPK due to Darwinism)

[eager marsh]

usually once the martial is in melee its harder for them to break off withoutgetting attack or risking letting said melee threats into the party's own backline. Thats why the player's backline casters should focus the enemy backline themselves first

[vagrant quartz]

All I really need it for barbarian dude to get into the fight so I don't get my 22 HP wizard curbstonped to the ground in 1 hit

[blissful ibex]

make enemies smart so the players can learn by example c:

give them a tactition dude in the backrow that makes them actually tacically competent untill that dude gets downed

[rugged hawk]

If someone's not taking a hint that things are too dangerous to go uncontested, I'm totally fine with giving them the consequences of their actions.

[vagrant quartz]

I see

[blissful ibex]

go full like half tuckers kobolds

[empty thicket]

and now if you mean how your Enemies can attack the party backlines?
welp, can add enemies that sneak and showing the party that such faction have THAT kind of enemy and giving small hints, a table move, a jar fell off, etc. etc.
Enemies capable of go through the party and seek the backline forcing the party to take it down or protect thebackline

[vagrant quartz]

I understand it now

🧠 I got it!

[wheat ridge]

Whassup

[empty thicket]

if not, give "ways to act" to some enemies
The base cultist will hit anything around him
The priest cultist will be in the back casting heals//buffs
The heavy cultist will go and search the party backline
etc. etc.

[rugged hawk]

Reminds me of the time we were debating crossing a chasm. There was what the DM described as a 'rotten-looking vine dangling nearby'. The elf's player immediately went "I roll DEX and try to swing across." before the DM finished talking. The vine immediately snapped and dropped the elf into the raging river far below. DM: ".....I never got to tell you it wasn't a DEX check...."

[blissful ibex]

apparenlty plotting the downfall of some battle junkies who can't prioritize targets

[wheat ridge]

Ooh, always prioritize the ones that seem the most troublesome towards your task/quest

[empty thicket]

and please, give them designs, pick a pic for their token that you can SEE they are different

something that they with just a glanze can see and know what they are

[wheat ridge]

Yeah, ppl that don't listen to the whole thing get on my nerves, lowkey

[undone fable]

So I have a question about dnd exploration. How do I make it fun?

[blissful ibex]

run more of it

[rugged hawk]

Have you considered....murderhobo'ing?

[wheat ridge]

Listen to the players likes and dislikes, and try to make up things that could appeal to everyone

[blissful ibex]

make fun encounter tables, make longer more survivally trecks where the party needs to move through less developed areas and have to find/conserve food/resources

have them need to search an area for the hidden temple or w/e

[wheat ridge]

Stuff that will make them think and not get bored trying to interact with obvious things

[rugged hawk]

Have them stumble across a raiding drow party and be kidnapped into the Underdark

[blissful ibex]

good exploration is a cross between a puzzle and a sort of rogue like section

[undone fable]

i really like that. I will consider that

[vagrant quartz]

Ty all for the feedback

Gn to y'all have sweet dreams/a good day

[wheat ridge]

"There is a door that's locked."
Option A: "I break down the door, and we get in"
Option B: The door is actually spelled, and if you push these rocks over it unlocks the door.

[rugged hawk]

Speaking of Underdark, I'm pretty sure Faerun's core must be something utterly monstrous and/or aberrant.

[coarse ravine]

As well as finding some raw honey in the woods.

[rugged hawk]

Because the lower you go into the Underdark, the weirder and less.... stable?... the world becomes.

Like, Upperdark and Middledark are mostly normalish, but Lowerdark is just PACKED with aberrants, weird growths, dead magic zones, wild magic zones, unstable portals, and Far Realms stuff.

[blissful ibex]

tiny adorable cr 50 creature

[rigid delta]

Do it yourself.

[wheat ridge]

Speaking of DND, a recent session with the group I do it with (only once a month, and a player just recently quit. We only have two hours, so we still haven't finished a campaign, and it's been almost three years now) like, seven ppl. It was only me and one other person for the last session, so we got to where we were going (I'm a barbarian, and the other person is a fairy artificer, and we're the only ppl that don't try to pull bs the whole game) and we actually got to where we were supposed to go, so we started looting (it was literally an abandoned city that all the people were frozen husks, so we didn't feel bad looting for stuff) I somehow obtain a silver tongue thing, end up rolling high enough to where instead of getting two minor boons and one major, I got three major boons and one minor. I'm now immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, both regular and magical. Immune to thunder damage, immune to deafening. My intelligence is now twenty, and I have expertise on arcana. Also got five rings that are cool I guess. One of them will let me insta revive once a day if I die, and I have a magical chess piece that lets me turn into some type of priestess cleric or something. I also have five attunement slots now lol. Imma fight our rogue next session, because he keeps randomly killing NPCs for no reason and stealing things that get us all in trouble

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk

[glass granite]

-# ah text wall jumpscare

[rigid delta]

I think I actually will do Frostmaiden. It seems pretty well constructed based on reddit and other reviews...

[wheat ridge]

Sorry 😭 was rambling because I still struggle with DND from time to time and thought what happened was cool

[glass granite]

That is a wild story

[rugged hawk]

....well, this seems the most succinct description of the Underdark I've ever seen: "It's Subterranean Australia with extra cosmic horror'.

[wheat ridge]

Why

[blissful ibex]

cuz it is cool

[rigid delta]

I was going to make it smaller, lol.

[wheat ridge]

I'm so happy. Now me and the artificer get to brag since we were the only ones to show up

[rigid delta]

-# Like this

[wheat ridge]

Ahh, okay

[rigid delta]

Now to figure out whether to play on Saturdays, Sundays, or Mondays...

[wheat ridge]

Yeah, the artificer got a tiara that will let them control sea folk. It does a lot of other stuff, but I can't remember. They also found some type of mask of Tiamat

[rigid delta]

-# Speaking of Tiamat, I am pretty proud of myself for being able to solidly tie in Hoard of the Dragon Queen to Lost Mine of Phandelver. I did some cool stuff like have the players see visions of the Nine Hells ||and a mysterious cultist speaking to a beautiful woman reclining on a massive throne that they were chained to. All the while, the woman's shadow roiled and coiled underneath her feet with the five heads of powerful dragons.||

[hearty bay]

Option C, I use thaumaturgy to scream at the door's keyhole. It opens itself in disbelief

[crimson gulch]

thats when the person on the other side opens the door like WUT

[icy matrix]

evening everyone! I am working on a chase system for a ship based combat. Today we used the system in the source book we are using (third part) it is awful. We had a few laughs and now im building a new one.

The system in the book is eseentially 5,7, or 9 skill checks. If the party fails 3 checks they fail the chase.

Then each chase "round" a d20 is rolled and the scenario is given to the players. I sorrta like this system as its clean but the d20 trable given is horrible.

What do yall think? Should I make a new system or just make a new table?

[calm garnet]

Do devils in general have a stat block or is it determined individually per devil?

[rigid delta]

In general, running checks should be best of five.

Makes things easier and doesn't drag out too long.

[woven flint]

Individually per devil

[icy matrix]

the 5,7,9 is nice since I can adjust the DC of the chase very easily. three fails on 5 is easy compared to 3 fails on 9

And since its just basic rolls/checks they are quickly completed. I think we went through an easy chase with 5 checks in less than 5 minutes

[rigid delta]

I would be more that you need to get the best of whichever number it is. So, more successes than failures.

Also, you can challenge players outside of making it be about physical challenges. Especially considering that ship chases aren't all about physicality. It's also about paying attention to how you chart a course and also what obstacles you can put in the other ship's way.

[lavish flame]

Is there any reason you aren't using the Chase rules from the Dungeon Master's Guide?

[rigid delta]

If arcane mines are a thing in your world, you can basically let your players add sea mines to the ocean to lower their DC.

[icy matrix]

i should prob reread them but they dont really work since its 1 entity chasing one entity. (ship chasing a ship) initiative is trivial, there are no exhaustion complications, thesystem just doesnt translate very well over to ships

[icy matrix]

this is how the d20 list is made. For example one of the options are "the ships go into a shallow reef area, you must navigate the shallow waters" paraphrasing a bit but you get the idea

[rigid delta]

I get cha.

We're doin it live, boys (and gals).

[empty thicket]

anyone know any book//edition//whatever that is in the Western era?
Like, cowboys and all that

[meager fractal]

Quickly now I need a cool quest idea for this raptoran/aaracokra monk to send my party on

[lavish flame]

Deadlands is a TTRPG system set in a weird west setting with like magic and shit

[empty thicket]

Good, will check then.
I was playing blood west (was given in epic) and im feeling that creative spyke.
Demons, undeads, etc. etc.

[rough basalt]

It is a very ridiculous system in a funny way

You can end up killing your fellow PCs or other allies on accident

[empty thicket]

lets hope not, if not, i will just search some stuff and adapt it for the game. Im sure anyone else made it already

[remote wadi]

Really hoping my server feedback gets implemented. Should make campaign searching easier

[burnt valley]

Allow Leomund's, Goodberry and Create Food and Water spells too

[empty thicket]

At this point of the time, i wont be surprised most ideas were already made... good and.......erm... bad ons too...

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah it's like that.
Deadlands likes opting for as much realism as possible

Which means accidentally shooting and killing your allies on failed attack rolls.

It's a hyperlethal system

[empty thicket]

meh, maybe im a bit forgiving in such stuff. Still, guns arent that advanced to be too problematic, same with vehicles, medicines.
Can justify some caster classes in lots of ways, etc. etc.
I want them to have fun, dont play Fear & Hunger

[rough basalt]

Then you might want something else. Regular savage worlds probably

[remote wadi]

It was mostly just adding tags for the campaign ads to make filtering through them easier

[rough basalt]

You'd have to overhaul the whole thing pretty much anyways, which would just be going back to base Savage Worlds anyhow

[amber echo]

Guys, would it be interesting to play a venom-dealing mage ("Venomancer/Toxomancer")? I saw a feat that would allow me to ignore poison resistance, but I was told that there are many monsters immune to poison. Do Dungeon Masters often include many of these monsters in their campaigns?

[rough basalt]

Yep

To the DMs part of the question.

200 of the 500 monsters more or less in the 2025 MM are immune to poison

[amber echo]

WOW

[rough basalt]

In the 2014 MM it's like 250 out of 400(?)

[amber echo]

[rough basalt]

WotC doesn't like the poison damage type

[amber echo]

i see this skill "Transmuted Spell" with this i can take for exemple a fire ball and transmute to poison

AOE poison DMG

[rough basalt]

The issue is even tho there's more enemies that aren't immune, a lot of enemies you'll usually fight are

Cause of how easy Undead are to use as a DM, most DMs use Undead quite a lot.

[amber echo]

And if it's a campaign more focused on having humans as enemies, maybe the poison mage build would work well?

[rough basalt]

But depending on the campaign a poison character can be a lot of fun

[empty thicket]

Yeah, taking something that pierce that poison resistance is.... at some point a need
Tho, some Poison DCs are just S&$@h, Dc11 for a bottle of poison worth 500 gp

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah, if it's a Humanoid heavy campaign you're golden

[empty thicket]

one use, bad dc.

[rough basalt]

Regular resistance is pretty rare.

I think it's only like 10 or something

But games with living enemies being the majority will see Poison being viable

[amber echo]

With this "Transmuted Spell" ability, I wouldn't be limited to learning only poison spells; I can learn other spells and transmute them into poison when the target isn't immune.

[rough basalt]

Like Dragons, Humanoids, Humanoid-likes

Giants

The main issue lies in that the two enemy types that are universally immune to poison are the easiest enemies to use

Which are Undead and Fiends

[empty thicket]

Yeah.... unless the DM wnat to be nice and take off the poison resistance or give it a better Approach

[rough basalt]

Moral issues don't come up when killing Zombies or creatures from the Abyss that exist to cause carnage and kill people

[remote wadi]

Come to think of it. Why isn't poison stronger?

[rough basalt]

No confirmed reason I'm aware of

[remote wadi]

Like, necrotic is both more common for good and evil... and is far more effective

[rough basalt]

The general belief I think is that WotC just doesn't like the damage type

But I think it's just cause of how things are

[burnt valley]

commonly resisted

[rough basalt]

A lot of DMs/Players don't wanna deal with moral situations so they gravitate towards Undead and Fiends

[empty thicket]

its something i was thinking for some time
Maybe was op for an edition and then in consequence was nerfed
Can have it "easily" if you get the capacity of making it, being extra damage for free (Even when some classes get that while others dont)

[remote wadi]

Okay, I know why it sucks. But why are these people making it suck

It's the figurative why

[empty thicket]

There was needed of one "punching bag" and that would had being hte poison. "its so bad that i wont use it"

and that would be?

[remote wadi]

Prisoner's kit is like... 3 doses and 1d4 poison damage

That is so terrible...

[rough basalt]

Nah Poison I don't think has ever been seriously powerful in player hands

Maybe in earlier editions when a lot of Humanoid species were "evil" so they were monsters to kill.

Even then, probably not seriously powerful, just more viable

[remote wadi]

Exactly. And few things are as annoying as something that could have been cool in concept, but was rigged from the start

[rough basalt]

Only thing WotC can really do is just use the Ring of Three Wishes IRL to ban DMs from only using Undead and Fiends

[empty thicket]

Yeah, but still, 500gp for a Dc13....

[rough basalt]

It's a small price to pay

[amber echo]

with transmuted spell and Sorcerous Burst u can choose a element from skill

[rough basalt]

These Undead and Fiend only DMs have been oppressing poison lovers for too long.

Time to bring down the hammer of justice

[empty thicket]

its a lot...i didnt had 500gp in all the time i was in a campaign.
And again, then im risking my butt for a poison that a lot of creatures can easily just save the DC, other many are immune, one use. Etc. etc.

[rough basalt]

I think the intention for expensive poisons is to use on npcs in cloak and dagger sort of situations

Tho I think it's boring and it's one of the things I'm willing to change

[empty thicket]

200gp is too much, i can literally get a whole equipment, arrows, crossbow, etc. etc.
Hell even grenades//bombs, etc. and would do a better work
Even truth serum is useless because Zone of truth, charm person, etc. Exist

[remote wadi]

Possibly pay attention to what was loved and hated from 5/5.5e and prepare for 6e, hopefully

[empty thicket]

too unjustified//unfair for me. Would change it in my own campaigns honestly because damn.
Imagine spending all the gp that you had in a poison for the creature being immune//save it easily making it being a waste

Only thing i see it can be used is for getting money at that point, find some creature, squeeze it and sell it

[rough basalt]

My Gunslinger I made has a poison sub and I just gave it the ability to ignore immunity at high levels

Probably will be fine

[remote wadi]

You would think that at least poison had good side effects. Maybe a penalty to physical rolls

Could be a good way to make a mental version for neurotoxins

[empty thicket]

Okey, point taken. Still the DC thing and many other creatures beside skeletons, zombies, ghouls, etc. Being immune...

[amber echo]

Imagine you conjure a Scorching Ray but use your metamagic to transmute it into poison, then you can say, "I extend my hand and instead of flames my pores secrete a bubbling, greenish liquid; with a snap of my fingers I unleash three jets of concentrated toxin under extremely high pressure."

[empty thicket]

Nurgle would be proud

[amber echo]

as they strike the enemy's flesh and begin to corrode the tissue instantly.

Immunity would ruin the charm of my venomancer character.

[empty thicket]

talk with your DM if you can pierce it or he can just lower it
Or in last stance make the DC saves a bit more harder for some poisons, try to find a balance

[remote wadi]

Acid dissolving flesh and bones?

[empty thicket]

Rot their bones, make them weaker
Burn their skin, make it rot more and fell from their body
Paralyze the muscles
Blind them

[knotty pasture]

Acid isn't the same as poison in the context of dnd, but its basically the closest it'll get

[remote wadi]

Is acid something else entirely?

[knotty pasture]

Like how viruses in sci fi can erode flesh and bone

Yeah acid is acid and poison is poison

[potent siren]

acid and poison damage are seperate damage types

[remote wadi]

What was WotC cooking...?

[knotty pasture]

Acid's usually referring to things that can erode away harder substances, poison is closer to something that deals internal damage

[remote wadi]

They would both be very similar, though. Heck, grouping them together would make poison overall be better and give freedom to have acid just be a subtype of poison

[knotty pasture]

Probably, but that's a house rule thing at that point

[empty thicket]

Yeah, acid isnt same than poison, but my point is.
Poisons can work better,
i get if its like the +1 ammo that is something that can stack and make problem with numbers so they just make it giga expensive, 1 use and hard to get//make

[potent siren]

poison damage stuff can work well for certain campaigns, but it is probably among the least useful damage types relative to all of the other damage types. It can be very fun if your DM lets you concoct special custom poisons though

[remote wadi]

Very similar to basic firearms, I'm surprised that both of those are only house rules and not in the campaign itself

[knotty pasture]

Tbh it is a world of magic and swords, guns always felt a little out of place

[empty thicket]

Because that is another thing i was thinking after i was answered about the +1 ammo//arrows. They are a hassle to the calcs
What if poison was in the same deal?

[knotty pasture]

Like how there's barely any fantasy that just shoots people with a pistol

[potent siren]

depends on the setting, but I generally agree

[remote wadi]

You can probably get away with it. I mean, cannons would at least exist, I would imagine

[knotty pasture]

See, stuff as big as cannons are more justified

[remote wadi]

Wouldn't be long until someone decided "Cannon, but small enough to fire with your hands"

[potent siren]

the older d&d systems and similar had some interesting stuff because guns went against your touch AC vs your normal AC

[knotty pasture]

In a world of magic and swords, most authors didn't allow people to miniaturize something as big as a cannon

[remote wadi]

I'm not saying that revolvers should exist (although flintlocks and pepperbox pistols could work), but not even the more basic ones? Idk

[knotty pasture]

They do exist, muskets and pistols iirc

But really they're just buffed heavy crossbows with custom ammo so

[remote wadi]

It also doesn't help that longbows have enough range to shoot from over 400 feet away, but somehow only have enough force to deal 1d8

[empty thicket]

+1,2 or 3 depending of the ammo

• magic weapon
  +magic ammo
  etc.

[burnt valley]

guns are like one of the best weapons if you find a way to get around the ammo problem

[potent siren]

the range stuff is an abstraction which tries to take into account early firearm inaccuracy when it comes to shooting at range

[knotty pasture]

Probably a good thing, dual hand crossbows with feats can out dps greatswords

[remote wadi]

Idk, I just feel like there we could really see where their creativity or passion burnt out with how lazy they got with some things

[burnt valley]

They're in a more favourable position too because they aren't in melee

[remote wadi]

That they could. I wouldn't know, hand crossbow are a little boring for me

[empty thicket]

i still dont get why artificer cant make +1 ammo....they can literally make a bag of holding. A +1 ammo would be nothing, boiling egg for a 3stars michelin chef

[knotty pasture]

Exactly, ranged weapons are a bit overtuned in general if anything, or maybe that's the fault of the feat

Artificer melee weapon choices still confuses me to this day though, their proficiencies kind of restrict them a fair amount

[burnt valley]

Allow them to make guns in general, they're using both science and abit of magic

[remote wadi]

Besides, I know this is a medieval setting, but this is also a fantasy setting. Can't monks use a reaction to legitimately catch a projectile out of the air and somehow throw it back with considerable force?

[knotty pasture]

They're half casters so I don't feel like going quarterstaff + shield, dual daggers?

[empty thicket]

you wouldn't guess what

They can

[remote wadi]

Artificers being able to make those inventions could be something akin to them looking at a musket and thinking of ways to make it more accurate and powerful. Or have an early concept of reloading quickly idk (would also make Ranged combat for rangers more valuable)

[empty thicket]

Maybe, like, my point is there. If an artificer can "learn" the magic from an item and replicate it, beside those items they know how to make.
Why not like, do like the wizard with some scrolls//spells and let them "copy" it

[unborn bramble]

Is there a way to remove weapon proficiencies granted by your class/race on DNDBeyond?

[knotty pasture]

Ranged combat for Rangers is already really cracked

[remote wadi]

I'm just saying, things in this setting are clearly superhuman, so why not make their intelligence more advanced to discover and make inventions a century or 2 before they would irl?

[unborn bramble]

I’ve tried going into the editor, but I only have the option to add custom proficiencies, not straight up remove them

[knotty pasture]

No other martial has the ability to lock down a huge area and just stand there shooting like a turret in tower defense

[scarlet spire]

what would the gamme design wise oposite of a mimic be? like a enemy which turns out to just be reward/loot?

[knotty pasture]

A slot machine

[remote wadi]

Spellcasters can also obliterate said area quickly. The only thing that could have stopped us from casting sleep and then fireball to enemies around a camp was being level 4 at the time

[knotty pasture]

Well yes spellcasters can't hold a candle against martials of any kind

Doesn't make Rangers bad at ranged, just outclassed

[remote wadi]

I guess a good reason I bring things like this up is that it is very easy to make times where enemies are grouped up or there's one huge monster to kill. That's where Wizards can shine the most because no reason to be stingy when the opportunity comes up

[knotty pasture]

Yes Wizards are the undisputed #1 class in dnd

[empty thicket]

Fair, will still make potions work

[knotty pasture]

Its so all powerful that it almost has no weaknesses

[empty thicket]

Unless you make Martials have a giga good difference against casters, yes.
A wizard can have Mage armor + shield and have 23 or more AC.
I cant pierce that.

[burnt valley]

Wizards win DnD at Tier 4 too

[empty thicket]

oh yeah, grapple the wizard that is flying above you or use misty step to move away

[knotty pasture]

Wizards win DnD*

[remote wadi]

Rangers do have options at a range, but their strongest moments occur when you have the least materials: no opportunity to long rest, no overwhelming forces, no powerful support or damage spells

[burnt valley]

i specified at Tier 4 cuz they are guaranteed to do that at that level lol, lower tiers are like 90% or 80% at worst

[knotty pasture]

Oh yeah fair point

[remote wadi]

Ranger feels like the antithesis of a "win more" character: where they're at their best when you're objectively in a bad spot. But if you are in a bad spot, then you likely made a terrible mistake that led up to that point

[empty thicket]

But you cant kill
he can still throw other attacks
you cant reach it for grapple Misty step is bonus action.
18 ac + 5 shield.

[burnt valley]

Phantom Steed to kite, Cleric dip for 20 ac with shield + plate and then the Shield spell

[empty thicket]

We were talking about 1 vs 1.

[remote wadi]

It's also a little ironic, if you also think about it: taking care of a little bit cannon fodder is super easy and strong for ranger, but in an attempt to spend less resources by sticking to these engagements, Rangers spend the most finite resources, i.e. arrows

[empty thicket]

yep, but again, the gap is too abysmal, to the point that one must add artificial help to balance it in some way. I wont bug too much about it, we all know how is the Caster VS martial debate

At the end of the day is a situational//draw faster thing.

[remote wadi]

It's the thing I run into the most so far playing as Ranger. Smaller cannon fodder, everyone basically has an infinitely repeatable attack: Wizard and Druid has cantrips, Paladin and Fighter have Martial Melee weapons. Arrows are common, but not infinite or always retrievable

I already do in the form of a silvered shortsword. Problem is, think about how much damage and what position is required for swinging a shortsword vs firing a longbow

[empty thicket]

or just any weapon, always having a short sword is good or a dagger

[remote wadi]

You can't exactly duel wield a longbow and a shortsword

[alpine plume]

guys im taking an enspelled weapon and im using the two weapon fighting style and the nick property to swing a lot as a blood hunter. its a very rare, so what level 5 spell should i get (concentration or not is fine)

[remote wadi]

• Costs an action
• Has to be within 5 feet of an enemy to have an affect
• Does not benefit from Sharpshooter or Archery FS
• 1d6 damage vs 1d8

Not saying melee weapons are useless. Just a lose lose between needing to spend resources and doing objectively worse in combat

[empty thicket]

Flame strike

[remote wadi]

It isn't just about being infinitely spammable. It's also about positioning and context
Ranger wants to stay at a range because he isn't as squishy as a spellcaster, but spellcasters oftentimes want to stay at a range

Paladin and Fighter do want to be close up because of their great AC, HP, and lack of an incentive to fight from far away

[limber prairie]

Guys can I get your concensus on this character I'm going to use?

[remote wadi]

I was explaining it before. Ranger is just kind of stuck in a paradox of sorts

[remote wadi]

Probably best for #character-discussion

[limber prairie]

He's a peacock cleric name Xerkek.

[buoyant oar]

Rangers do not need to be 10/10 on the combat Pillar because their place to shine is the Exploration Pillar.

[limber prairie]

I am joking ofc

[knotty pasture]

Idk I think you're overthinking Ranger lol

[remote wadi]

The paradox being that he lacks the same great options other have to take down swarms of smaller enemies or a couple enormous enemies

So trying to take out small and relatively easy enemies is usually where Ranger excels, but he also is losing in his own way by being the MVP in an unimportant fight and spending resources to do so

[limber prairie]

That guy is the Chris-chan of D&D

[buoyant oar]

Same with Bard and the Social Pillar.

[remote wadi]

Might be. Habit of overanalyzing things

But it was a shower thought I had that Ranger's versatility comes up the most when there's little present in the first place: no wizard, no fighter, little healing, etc

[empty thicket]

Mmmmmmmmm.... Goodberries

Goodberry pie

[remote wadi]

He is definitely versatile... but it's when/where that versatility shines that can be a problem

Well, kind of...? Last fight, our Cleric couldn't make it and Paladin had to dip mid fight. So that kind of meant I was the main/only person with Cure Wounds

But in that position, some people were way out of position and made less than ideal decisions, so I did contribute quite a bit, but at the cost of being in dire circumstances

[buoyant oar]

But like a player dipping mid fight is not a standard part of the game.

[remote wadi]

It was understandable for why, but that is a good point, I suppsose

Maybe my next 2014 campaign that sounds good, I can play a Ranger and have some more uses

[mystic shuttle]

Hey guys

[remote wadi]

Although I am a little concerned about how Ranger could be played the way you're saying it. I don't mind mixed attackers, but it does sound like your stats are torn between quite a bit

[empty thicket]

After being abandoned by my party and had to face a boss alone, i kinda understand some people in some points.
But i understand that situation is the exception of the rule and not hte rule

Btw that boss might come back later repaired and i will get my second round, this next time im blowing up his head like some balloon

[fickle heart]

Like, I don't mean for this to sound antagonistic, but playing less than 5 sessions of a game and presenting conclusions on a class is a bit hasty, y'know?

[buoyant oar]

Have you met the DnD community?

[remote wadi]

It's obviously faulty. I mean, it is my experience with Ranger so far

Not final, not extremely informed, and is subject to change

I mean, they are the most versatile, so it goes without saying

[buoyant oar]

Ranger is good. Hunters Mark is not a big issue. Could be better? Yeah. But
So could everything.

[remote wadi]

Maybe it could just be from the campaign being 5 players too... 6 is possible, but hasn't happened

[remote wadi]

Not everything is created equally, unfortunately

[buoyant oar]

There isn't not a class I have found to be objectively better or worse than any other when going strictly by the book.

Classes aren't meant to be hyper compared to each other. Don't judge the fish for climbing a tree poorly, kinda stuff.

[empty thicket]

after playing tons of hours to Darkest dungeon, im used to 4 members parties
can work with a 3 members without problem or 5, but 4 feel the most balanced for me

[knotty pasture]

Eh, I mean a martial with all the control spells and buffs in the world is pretty versatile as is, with or without other sources of versatility (as in, more versatility isn't bad)

[jolly path]

I do, just armor dip and have PWT up

[knotty pasture]

You are right that Ranger suffers less the longer a campaign drags on without long rests compared to some other classes

[stuck quartz]

Rangers are like the best weapons users in the game

[buoyant oar]

Don't handwave your exploration and watch your ranger shine.

[stuck quartz]

I honestly love that they have somewhat of a role even in 2wiz2lock high op parties

[empty thicket]

seconds for me, fighter exist

[near karma]

are you new to 5e?

[knotty pasture]

Seriously though, how many of "Ranger sucks" is from your party being terrible and how much of it is Ranger actually sucking?

[jolly path]

Bears are great at climbing trees, what do you mean

[buoyant oar]

I have been playing 5e since it was called D&DNext.

[near karma]

okay because when I see that take, I have to assume either you're new or like....? idk how else you arrive at that conclusion

[remote wadi]

Then I guess what Ranger spells are available and actually worth it?
I enjoyed Ensnaring Strike for a bit, but got a little upset when it had to be casted before, not during attacking. And most enemies that are tanky also have a good Strength stat, so they didn't stay restrained for that long at all

[near karma]

maybe you played with a lot of incompetent casters

[knotty pasture]

I'm messing around with a level 11 Ranger and so far I have legit never fought for a second that Ranger is unnecessary

[fickle heart]

The more strictly you play into 5e's roots, the more parity you have, yeah.

[knotty pasture]

By level 11:

1st Level: Absorb elements, fog cloud, goodberry, longstrider, speak with animals.
2nd Level: Beast sense, pass without trace, rope trick.

[remote wadi]

Oh, I also wanted to ask. Do you actually get disadvantage with a ranged weapon when attacking an enemy that is unconscious

[stuck quartz]

Could also be the ranger’s issue

I.e. casting hunter’s mark

[empty thicket]

1 wizard/Sorc/ warlock
1 rogue/range /fighter / monk
1 art / bard / druid / cleric
1 paladin / berserker

is how i think would be the most efficient, 1 caster, martial, supportish and solid frontline

[knotty pasture]

PWT is Ranger's bread and butter, but I also don't want to discuss for the 3rd time about your team dynamics

[buoyant oar]

No I control my casters. Problem solved. Wizards can get spells outside of the level up mechanic. But I control what spells they have access to.

Casting magic has strict components.

Cleric casts guidance on a persuasion check?

Well the whole room heard them do it because of the V component

[mental fog]

Hi hi

[burnt valley]

Dont forget Plant Growth, 1/4th movement speed and difficult terrain makes melee focused creatures literally unable to attack you

[remote wadi]

Someone casted sleep on a bunch of the grunts around a campfire. Didn't want to get close

[empty thicket]

i had some problem placing druid ngl

[fickle heart]

Some of the greatest flaws people see in 5e are unfortunately flaws created due to loosening restrictions within play.

[hot marlin]

An unconscious person is prone, which means you have disadvantage. But attack rolls against it have disadvantage. The two cancel each other

[remote wadi]

That's a third level spell, though >_>

[burnt valley]

wdym by controlling what spells they have access to?

[knotty pasture]

In case you're not reading this on purpose: