dnd-discussion

[remote wadi]

Again, this is 5e. 2014. Not the other one

[undone fable]

Ranger is a great class! you should keep it a ranger

[stoic obsidian]

Same case

[inner silo]

Doesn't need, but it can be fun

[stuck shuttle]

Oh wait your main class is Ranger

[remote wadi]

Okay, but

Why keep Ranger?

[undone fable]

Why not?

[remote wadi]

. . .

[stoic obsidian]

Only if you are fine with being a little redundant some

[inner silo]

It's a cool class, even if not the strongest. It has some niche but very thematic abilities which the player may prefer over optimisation

[remote wadi]

Because I do not see the appeal behind staying solo Ranger

When I want to do great piercing damage

[reef tundra]

Then why did you pick it?

[inner silo]

Depends on the campaign

[reef tundra]

How about you just go full rogue?

[undone fable]

I agree.

[remote wadi]

Because I was planning on multiclassing and needed help with knowing which option does what?

And we already have a full rogue

[stoic obsidian]

If you don’t like it solo then why pick it, and honestly are you trying to power game or something,

[woven flint]

Hello, friends :>

[undone fable]

It has the coolest subclass ever. also Ranger has 9 unique spells that makes it extra awesome!

[stuck shuttle]

Are you looking for just the best options, fun options, etc?

[knotty basin]

I wish Ranger had some actual abilities though

Like, hunter’s mark should scale for them or something

[undone fable]

Rangers are super awesome! why not try my house ruless?

[stoic obsidian]

Okay go monk ranger

[remote wadi]

A blend of both. I'm not trying to metagame or whatever the term is. But I'm not planning on shooting myself in the foot from bad decision making

[woven flint]

I'm in a campaign where we get a dragonmark for free 😎

I'm playing a Moon Druid with the Mark of Sentinel

[knotty basin]

If they’re awesome why do you need house rules for them

[reef tundra]

I like a lot of the abilities they have

[knotty basin]

Sure, but they’re not very good for combat

[stoic obsidian]

Particularly kensei monk ranger

[undone fable]

People keep hating on them. I offer the house rules in case.

[reef tundra]

I wish stuff like wizards had actual abilities other than Spellcasting

[reef tundra]

Have you been at a table with a Ranger?

[undone fable]

I have. Because I am the ranger main.

[reef tundra]

Don’t worry Enid, it’s just outdated jokes

[stoic obsidian]

I agree somewhat, tho they get a ton of ritual spells

[knotty basin]

No, I’ve read them though

[stoic obsidian]

Which version?

[remote wadi]

You know what? I'll just find out for myself. It'll be faster and easier that way

[reef tundra]

I feel like one of us here is more qualified to talk about how efficient rangers are

[stuck shuttle]

You might want to check out what optimizers do with Ranger and then adjust from there according to your preference. Theres some crazy multiclass stuff with subclasses like Gloom-stalker, but it’s not for everyone

[reef tundra]

Yeah, that’s a good idea.

[knotty basin]

70% of their features are useless in most campaigns

[remote wadi]

I suppose that is a start. Gloomstalker was the plan for the sub class, but I was considering mutli class options

[undone fable]

Me, who does optimization with swarmkeeper: yes.

[reef tundra]

Idk man, I’m the one who’s played and ran games for rangers, I’ve seen them be deadly, and very efficient

[woven flint]

Optimization, Schmoptimization

[undone fable]

Rangers are the bread and butter of DnD.

[reef tundra]

Exactly my thoughts

[remote wadi]

My main choices were if I wanted several attacks with a Fighter

Or focus on Sneak Attacks with Rogue

Especially because for both, I have Sharpshooter with Piercer around the corner

[woven flint]

Watch me do some goofy shit with a character and just make it work

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh we all optimize anyway for what we want to play

[undone fable]

I would say they are more important than wizards and fighters in some regards

[reef tundra]

Is there a full fighter in the party?

[remote wadi]

Yes. And a full Rogue

[reef tundra]

Okay now that I disagree with

[undone fable]

Full ranger ahead.

[stoic obsidian]

Not for power gaming, more like mechanical sense

[reef tundra]

Hmmm, yeah, I say just follow what you think

[remote wadi]

Out party is somewhat large, all things considered

[woven flint]

I'm playing a Moon Druid with Mark of Sentinel specifically to be a better tank, yes, but also because Mark of Sentinel gives heavy Gaurdian vibes and I dig it

[remote wadi]

Because we also have a Cleric, Wizard, and a Bard bare minimum alongside the aforementioned 3

Oh. And a Paladin

[stoic obsidian]

And thus you optimize how you want to play your character

[woven flint]

Also, I absolutely love the feature that allows you to swap places with your ally and take damage for them instead, that could really save someone

[undone fable]

We need more ranger mains

[woven flint]

Imagine, if you will
Teleporting and swapping with your teammate Todo from JJK style

[undone fable]

Rangers are actually so amazing that I could talk about them literally all week

[stoic obsidian]

My man Todo the clapper

[woven flint]

The Paladin and I are gonna wreck house

[remote wadi]

So that is part of the problem. We have plenty of several things. Good AC, good ranged spells, healing, close range weapons

[stuck shuttle]

I’m pretty sure Rangers are 95% of what you talk about

[undone fable]

10 minute presentation no prep, i can talk about 5e and 5.5e rangers.

Me?

[stuck shuttle]

Yee

[remote wadi]

Okay, I got a question

[woven flint]

The way I'm gonna flavor it for my Moon Druid is that he stomps his foot and causes the ground to shift so he swap places with his ally

[stoic obsidian]

We need more balance players

[undone fable]

then that 10 minute presentation would be an actual flex

[reef tundra]

Okay Enid, calm down

[remote wadi]

Does Ranger eventually get the ability to attack twice? If so, when?

[reef tundra]

The Ranger slanderers are gone

[undone fable]

level 5

[woven flint]

5th level

[remote wadi]

Hmmm

[reef tundra]

Combined with hunter’s mark, and that’s a pretty decent damage output as is

Nothing incredible, but still good

[clear lark]

All melee classes do

[woven flint]

Folks, what species should I go for my Moon Druid?

I've been thinking
Orc, Goliath, Dwarf...
Maybe a Lizardfolk or Kobold?
Idk lmal

[remote wadi]

Crap, I did forget about that spell

[reef tundra]

Lizardfolk

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh I think we need more people seeing the value of all classes in combat and roleplay, not just one or the other

[woven flint]

Hmmm..
I dunno now that I think about Lizardfolk, as much as I love it, I play too many beastfolk lol

[reef tundra]

Rangers aren’t incredibly high damage output, but they have great utility

[undone fable]

Hunters mark, 2024 hail of thorns, high dex and wisdom, and utility spells

[remote wadi]

The issue is that the utility factor is a little dampered both from it being 2014 and having a quite large party

[stoic obsidian]

And damage isn’t the end all be all it only a part of combat

[stuck shuttle]

Bloodline has already specified they’re not playing 2024

[woven flint]

I could do Dwarf for the Extra HP 🤔

[reef tundra]

I’ve mentioned this before, but every class is great at something, and every class is the worst at something. When people say a class is bad, they actually mean it doesn’t fit what they want to achieve

[clear lark]

Damage isn't the be all, but it's definitely the end all

[reef tundra]

Does your DM allow for the optional Tasha abilities?

[reef tundra]

Haha that is a good point

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, and that what kinda bugs me too

[remote wadi]

Tasha abilities? Please be patient with me, I don't exactly know every single term

[old sluice]

OK I'll bite: What is the wizard worst at?

[undone fable]

Tasha's Cauldron of Everything the book

[reef tundra]

No no, it’s okay. In the book Tasha’s guide to everything, they have a bunch of optional Ranger abilities

[undone fable]

Thats where my favorite ranger subclass is

[reef tundra]

HP, and with the exception of blade singer, up close and personal battle

[spice stump]

Guys i just figured out an insane new dnd mechanic to use for your campaign
What if instead of long rest it was called a short rest and instead of needing 8 hours it only needed 1 hour and instead of the normal full heal you instead have to spend this thing called "hit dice" to recover, I'm so smart ikr

[old sluice]

So the same as sorcerer?

[reef tundra]

Notice how a lot of spells that can be used up close are about getting an enemy away from them or making sure they can’t follow (thunderwave and booming blade)

[reef tundra]

Very similar, yes

[remote wadi]

Some good examples for Ranger?

[spice stump]

Imo, probably nothing really

[undone fable]

My favorite ranger subclass!

[remote wadi]

Gloomstalker?

[spice stump]

They have bad Hp but that can easily be patched by shield spell

[undone fable]

Look at my name.

[jovial badger]

why we talking abt rangers 😭

[clear lark]

melee

[reef tundra]

They are very similar, except wizards excel in having a wider range of spells and sorcerers excel in more flexibility with spells

[remote wadi]

[jovial badger]

living

[spice stump]

Yeah that's a good answer

[undone fable]

its swarmkeeper.

[remote wadi]

[reef tundra]

4 spell slots for shield and suddenly it begins to eat spell slots that could be used for other spells

[jovial badger]

dont disrespect my +1 to hit 0 damage unarmed strike

[undone fable]

Swarmkeeper is a subclass that focuses on crowd control and a bitta extra damage per round. Plus its awesome for flavoring

[reef tundra]

That level 2 spell slot? Could have been used for misty step or cloud of daggers. Spend too many of those? And now you’re eating spell slots that could have been used for fireball

[remote wadi]

Needed help with a decision

Stay solo Ranger, multiclass into Fighter for AS, or multiclass into Rogue for SA? 5e rules BTW, not 5.5

[spice stump]

It would be so funny if attacks could actually do negative damage and heal the target if you have a low enough modifier

[gentle field]

Guys what are guild members

[remote wadi]

@reef tundra Anyways, tell me more about the Tasha's book

[spice stump]

Like you just slip and fall while punching so horribly the enemy heals from laughing so hard at your fumble

[reef tundra]

Unfortunately, I cannot list the abilities it gives as I have not played a 2014 Ranger

[jovial badger]

not possible, i alr tried lol
even setting my strength from 8 to 1 still does 0 dmg

[undone fable]

ranger

[spice stump]

Well yeah attacks have a minimum of 1 damage i think

[reef tundra]

Calm down Enid

[spice stump]

Can anyone suggest me ways to convert a campaign from 2014 to 2024

[stuck shuttle]

In what context?

[remote wadi]

From what it seems like, yes. It is allowed

[reef tundra]

Uhhh… switch rulebooks?

[spice stump]

Or is it just really easy and I'm wasting time by asking for help

[undone fable]

i love the class so much

[spice stump]

I shoulda figured...

[reef tundra]

Dw yeah it’s nothing too complicated. A lot of it is backwards compatible. Not all of it though

[reef tundra]

Excellent, hopefully I can find someone who knows of the optional Tasha abilities

[undone fable]

I do!

[spice stump]

I see, i have about 10 days before my next session so that should be enough time for shifting

[reef tundra]

I’d say so, yes

[reef tundra]

Excellent, may you tell Bloodline what abilities the Tasha abilities replace?

[stuck shuttle]

It’s not super complicated imo, just take all of them when you can. They mostly all replace other Ranger features

[reef tundra]

I heard the Tasha abilities were much better anyway

[remote wadi]

This is a very tricky choice to make because while doing massive damage with a sneak attack, and possibly get another action afterwards if I wanted to invest in the Gunner trait (late campaign weapon will likely be a rifle of sorts)

The appeal of wailing on a huge enemy with Hunter's Mark and the many attacks from a Fighter is also interesting

[undone fable]

Let me grab my copy real quick

[reef tundra]

I think maybe a dip in fighter might be a good idea, just two levels for action surge and second wind

[undone fable]

Ok got it

[stuck shuttle]

Yeah they’re all strict upgrades

[reef tundra]

Amen for Tasha

[jovial badger]

Action Type:

1 Action

Attack Type:

Unarmed Strike

To Hit:

1

Damage:

0

Damage Type:

Bludgeoning

Stat:

STR

Range/Area:

5ft. Reach

Proficient:

Yes

[reef tundra]

I’ve also seen unarmed strikes do 0 damage

[remote wadi]

Okay, what does Sneak Attack do?

[stuck shuttle]

The minimum damage is 0, some abilities specify another minimum

[reef tundra]

Simply adds extra damage to one attack on your turn, but you’ll need to be higher levels for the extra damage to be higher

At level 1 and 2 it’s just an extra 1d6, but it stacks with hunter’s mark so

[remote wadi]

So it would need more investments into Rogue

[reef tundra]

I’d say go for fighter action surge, at level 5 that’s then 4 attacks each with 1d6 extra because of hunter’s mark

[stuck shuttle]

Or another’s turn if you use a reaction attack

[reef tundra]

Yeah, but big multiclass splits might not be good

[reef tundra]

Oh yes, that too, Ty

[remote wadi]

Hmm, yeah. If it was the other way around, though... that may be another story

[undone fable]

Alrighty! so... Deft explorer: replaces Natural Explorer. Gives expertise to one skill youre already proficient in and 2 additional language proficiencies at level 1, a climbing and swimming speed equal to walking speed with a +5ft boost to walking speed at level 6, and temp HP of 1d8+wisdom modifier as an action at level 10.

Favored foe replaces favored enemy. basically meh hunters mark but applies to first attack that connects. 1d4 at level 1, 1d6 at level 6, 1d8 at level 14.

Primal awareness replaces primeval awareness at level 3. Basically a expanded spell list applied to all rangers instead of certain subclasses.

Nature's veil, replacing Hide in plain sight. invisible as a bonus action until start of your next turn.

[remote wadi]

So I guess that's the Rogue multiclass out. And it seems like 2 levels in Fighter would be massive with Hunter's Mark

[reef tundra]

Sounds good to me

[remote wadi]

I reached out to my DM about what exactly is available from Tasha's Cauldron

Because Canny and Favored Foe is enticing for now

[undone fable]

they are. i told all of the replacing features. but thats not all the features i included

[reef tundra]

I wish you luck and fun with your character

[remote wadi]

So far, it is going not half bad. My only complaints are

1. Having consistently low initiative rolls despite +4 Dex
2. Getting the help actions applied to me, yet getting an identical number for advantage, thus not benefiting from it... 3 times in a row

[undone fable]

I can help with the mechanical stuff for rangers.

Me and amity both can actually. Rangers are actually fun

[inner silo]

What do you think of a strength based gloomstalker?

[undone fable]

very interesting

[hidden spindle]

What terrain would you suggest for Natural Explorer?

[lean wigeon]

i love d20 uniform distribution

[inner silo]

I like the gloom stalkers stealthiness and speed but want to swing a single big weapon

[undone fable]

i liek the forest personally but it depends heavily on dm

[inner silo]

For 24 btw

[inner silo]

Could you help me with the build?

[lavish flame]

you're sorta just gonna have to be a melee Ranger. increase your Strength, don't grab buffs for ranged attacks

the build isn't gonna be anything crazy. You want Wisdom and Strength (with a minor in Dexterity) at character creation. Past level 1, grab Great Weapon Master and your build is basically done

[inner silo]

Alrighty. Could grabbing a fighter level first for con prof and a fighting style be good?

[jovial badger]

what would yall recommend multiclassing a monk into

[inner silo]

Kensei monk rogue?

[lavish flame]

Rangers get fighting styles so no. You can also just grab Resilient fpr Con if you really want Con save proficiency

[inner silo]

I see, alrighty, thanks!

[knotty basin]

1 level barb for rage

[lavish flame]

I wouldn't recommend any multiclass ever tbh

Just get your Monk features on time, don't delay them

[knotty basin]

Idk, raging monk sounds pretty sweet

[atomic kayak]

I would advise against multiclassing anything unless you are doing it for a specific reason

multiclassing for the sake of multiclassing is, simply put, not a good idea

[shy stirrup]

Couldn't agree more

[hidden spindle]

Warlock. Pact of the Blade's Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant Damage types on Monk Weapons.

Then has a Spell Slot (or two with a second level in Warlock) that recharges on a Short Rest

-# I usually just straight class so I was just throwing out an idea

[undone fable]

okay so gwyn has it covered. But if you wanna make more use of it, increasing con could be good. And if you can get the amulet of health, thats good.

[lavish flame]

I question the need for a Necrotic/Psychic/Radiant monk weapon when you eventually get Force unarmed strike

[inner silo]

Alrighty, thanks!

[jovial badger]

thanks for all the suggestions all!

[undone fable]

i would say, gloom is good for tht wisdom saving throw proficiency but if you want something different, i would recommend swarmkeeper (like my name) for crowd control

[limber trail]

This doesn’t work great, you’re giving up levels in monk and you’re also giving monk a third/fourth important stat to care about. Monks don’t have a lot of budget to stick all of their attacks on charisma

[glass granite]

One level in Ranger
Take weapon mastery Nick, and hunters mark

[limber trail]

Plus, as a monk half of your attacks are unarmed strikes so it doesn’t even necessarily help that much

[inner silo]

Idk if the swarm keeper would fit that well flavourwise

[limber trail]

I would focus monk levels at least until level 7

[glass granite]

Evasion do be hitting different

[jovial badger]

always online

[limber trail]

So hunters mark I need to do the math on but for a lot of encounters it’s not gonna meaningfully increase your damage because you’re losing out on bonus action economy

[glass granite]

Agreed, but if you can cast it from a distance before you engage it can be nice

Plus, monks just don’t multiclass very well

[limber trail]

I don’t see the advantage to that really

Monks don’t have a lot of trouble engaging enemies

[glass granite]

That is true

For single target enemies though, especially for shadow monks that need to use their action first turn anyway, the second turn could be very powerful. It’s not optimal, or maybe even good, but I found it fun when I played.

[limber trail]

As a monk you wanna be taking out lesser enemies like minions while beefier classes take out the big enemies. Hunter's Mark isn't great because it's a bonus action to transfer it every time. You bonus action, probably get 2-3 hits off before it dies, and then you need to spend another bonus action to use it

the damage a monk does on a bonus action is usually just better than what hunter's mark can provide unless it's single target monk

[loud vector]

is there any rules about knowing the true name of a demon? i can't find it

[limber trail]

I honestly think it's not worth it to multiclass a monk unless you have something specific in mind

[glass granite]

Agreed

[limber trail]

I'm considering one level in fighter for my monk because the healing is nice, weapon mastery for vex on my pistol, and archery fighting style all contribute to gimmick gun-fu build I'm commiting to

but that's because it gives me three specific things that all help me

[glass granite]

Gun monk!

[undone fable]

you get an additional d6 of damage on your first hit that increases to d8 at level 11, web, and the swarm can do other things as well

[limber trail]

gun monk!

[glass granite]

I love me a gun monk

[limber trail]

Ti threw a gunslinger at us a couple days ago

and I decided in that moment that I would be commiting to this bit by taking his gun

[glass granite]

Hell yeahhhh

[knotty basin]

Are the firearms (not the modern ones) balanced?

[limber trail]

Relatively so

They're similar specs to the bows

the damage is a little higher, they've got loading so it's once per turn, the range is tweaked down

they fit pretty well in the power scale of DnD

[remote wadi]

Mmm, I don't think i need that much help. The main one was wondering which multiclass to do, but Fighter seems like the best choice for it

[loud vector]

does knowing the name of a demon gives you something? i renember vaguely seeing sm like that

[limber trail]

There's not really a mechanic for it

Some modules might have something for it? But generally DM discretion applies

I would assume not unless the DM specifies that it does give you some speciifc power

[inner silo]

I don't doubt it's power. Just controlling a swarm of bugs doesn't fit my character that well i don't think

[inner silo]

Fighter with like a hunter ranger could be pretty interesting with dual wielding and colossus slayer or a strength build and hoard breaker

[gleaming lodge]

Question: what's the most creative use of a spell or magic item you've seen?

[remote wadi]

No, I mean Ranger multiclass into Fighter for Action Surge

[limber trail]

I once used ice knife to attempt to plug a hole in a ship

[remote wadi]

Does word of mouth count?

[gleaming lodge]

Good idea!

[glass granite]

I can’t help but see the word “attempt”

[gleaming lodge]

As in, something you heard about?

[remote wadi]

Yeah

[gleaming lodge]

Sure!

[lavish flame]

With stuff like True Names, thats usually a narrative conceit and not a mechanical one in 5e. I think Gate (9th level spell) talks about how you can use a True Name to summon a specific person, but for the most part, its narrative power.

[limber trail]

I rolled atrociously well on damage.

[glass granite]

OUCH

[limber trail]

10 on 2d6.

[gleaming lodge]

"Quick, I'll plug this hole- ARGH, IT'S JUST BIGGER NOW!!!"

[limber trail]

I should've just started with mending

[bitter kraken]

I think it might have been what DMs refer to as a canon moment.

[remote wadi]

Hexblade Warlock warding off a clay golem single handedly using Eldritch Blast /w Repelling Blast, Polearm Mastery, War Caster, and Sentinel

Literally rendered it useless

[gleaming lodge]

That sounds badass.

[remote wadi]

Not for the DM, seemed like

[limber trail]

to be fair that's not really a creative use of a spell, that's just minmaxing

[remote wadi]

Best I can do

I don't exactly have plenty of tales under my belt

Aside from tragedies involving my ironic dice luck

[gleaming lodge]

I heard about an arcane trickster rogue who made money by setting up a mobile business where people could ask to have reasonable requests fulfilled.

He'd use Mending and other cantrips to do all the work in minutes and then doss about in the wagon for the rest of the day, occasionally making work-related noises to seem busy.

[bitter kraken]

What comes to my mind, some team did enlarge on Player 1, and polymorph into a turtle on player 2. P1 proceeded to skip P2 across a body of water.

[limber trail]

Now that’s awesome

[gaunt roost]

Not to critique their critical thinking, but if the purpose of this combo was to clear a body of water... doesnt a turtle have a swim speed? Even without being thrown? Granted being yeeted probably saved time

[knotty basin]

DMing for the first time tomorrow

[gleaming lodge]

Maybe they're referring to a tortoise.

[bitter kraken]

It was faster and P2 already took his turn.

[gleaming lodge]

Good luck!

[gaunt roost]

remember to have a dark mysterious shady guy sitting in every corner of every tavern. If possible, have a tavern with extra corners for dark mysterious shady figures. They all are in town for the questgiver convention

[bitter kraken]

It was mid combat so the enlarge still saw some use.

[knotty basin]

Now I’m picturing a sign that says “RESERVED: Dark mysterious shady figures seating only”

[shy stirrup]

That's the spot your players will sit in, naturally

[gleaming lodge]

"Sorry, can't let you in, mate."
"Why not?"
"We've got three mysterious hooded blokes in 'ere already; one more and it'll seem like somethin' weird's happenin'."

[gaunt roost]

In the background, some very cult-y looking people are quickly stuffing their uniform masks into their totally not cultist robes, while one quickly throws a bar rag over their shoulders to look less suspicious, before asking for two tables

[covert yew]

Is it true that they used ai to write the new 5.5e rule book

[knotty basin]

No

[lavish flame]

They have credits for a very good reason

[covert yew]

That’s good to know

[lavish flame]

The same is true of interior art credits

[gaunt roost]

as true as everything using AI now. Most likely not. Maybe proofread with it though. Maybe some individual did. Overall? No. Officially? No. Inofficially? Probably not but its impossible to prove a negative

[knotty basin]

AI could never make a even remotely acceptable DND mechanic

It’s too inconsistent

[gaunt roost]

If they did they would face quite some backlash. The writing is a creative field, and people dislike using AI to take jobs in creative fields very much. Also its usually bad and needs to be reworked anyways

[gleaming lodge]

Reminds me of the opening of Guards! Guards!, where a member of a secret society knocks on several wrong spooky doors before finding his colleagues.

[gaunt roost]

exactly my point. Thats a very good book, and given the density of evil god worshippers, it really should happen more often

[heady sandal]

Hiii

[gleaming lodge]

Two cults get into a heated dispute, not about their faiths, but about who gets to book the room above a bookie's for their meeting that week.

[heady sandal]

A bird

[gleaming lodge]

Bird?

[empty thicket]

it doesnt have a solid understanding of many things

the logics it use have lots of flaws in many things, still if you manage to train one i think in less of 2 months you can make it work

still i would recommend try an idea, test it with a campaign and go slowly fixing it.
In one i am now we have a Glory kill mechanic and its hard to pull out but is giga worth because it can recharge a resource, give T.hp, scare enemies or more

[last lark]

have you ever encountered a dragon inside a dungeon?

[fossil hollow]

Yes; their lairs are dungeons

[knotty basin]

This might be a bit pedantic, but I hate when fantasy buildings are labeled dungeons when they aren’t dungeons

It’s only a dungeon if people are imprisoned it in

[lavish flame]

thats entirely wrong

a dungeon is a fancy word for a basement in actual usage

[knotty basin]

Dungeon: Noun, a strong underground prison cell, especially in a castle

[scenic zinc]

fun fact: dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive, of words definitions.

so using a dictionary to prove that your definition of a given word is "right" and someone elses is "wrong" is ignoring what a dictionary is even meant for.

[knotty basin]

I’m not going to argue with you as I don’t want to be banned

[shy stirrup]

It was originally the Old French donjon, the central keep of a castle (in which you might find subterranean prison cells) when the word drifted into English, its meaning changed, just as its meaning changes in relation to D&D

[fickle heart]

It is interesting that the word "dungeon" in a fantasy context doesn't actually match what the word means outside of fantasy at all (or at least is far enough to cause significant confusion aside from the specific overlap that isn't very common anymore.)

[shy stirrup]

Yea not at all, and even in D&D it has two meanings, as a general concept, and as a very specific thing

[humble cairn]

Yes, but in D&D "dungeon" is basically just where the adventure takes place. It's been generalized, specifically for D&D purposes.

It doesn't even have to be a building to be a D&Dungeon.

Nor does the Dragon need to be an actual Dragon, it's more "Here Be Dragons"

[fossil hollow]

DnD is not the only media that treats "Dungeon" as a place of danger and monsters

[rough basalt]

Pretty much any fantasy media

[humble cairn]

I feel it may have been the originator.

Not 100% sure, but i have a strong feeling.

[shy stirrup]

If it isn't, then I struggle to think what is

[lyric idol]

Its close tbf. If it didnt originate it then it definitely popularized it.

The origin is probably the greek Labrynths if I were to guess tbh.

[shy stirrup]

• the dungeons underneath Castle Blackmoore
• the dungeons underneath Castle Greyhawk

[humble cairn]

Minos of Crete?

[shy stirrup]

These are your two OG "dungeons"

[lyric idol]

Ooo yeah I forgot that one.

[cerulean monolith]

D&D was originally created to take classic wargaming into an ‘underworld’, which was intended to be a region/place filled with an abundance of monsters and danger.

[cerulean monolith]

Wdym, that’s the only Labyrinth

[fickle heart]

Ye, it was.

[lyric idol]

Pretty sure greeks had dungeons even if they werent called that.

[shy stirrup]

More a labyrinth, but yea...that's probably in the DNA of it, somewhere

[cerulean monolith]

Or rather, it’s The Labyrinth

[gentle leaf]

Anyone else find astral projection kinda meh for a 9th level spell? whats its practical use outside of planar travel?

[marble lion]

Dungeon is a game term when used in the dnd sense. Not a fantasy term. A game term

[lyric idol]

Ik that Labyrinths in DND are considered its own classification of dungeon based on the greek mythology, but I dont see why it wouldnt count.

[marble lion]

In the real world dungeon absolutely refers to a prison and comes from donjon towers in castles

[lyric idol]

Ruins and Warlords would absoluteky go hard.

[cerulean monolith]

The use of dungeon as a term meaning a term meaning a labyrinthine underground place of danger originates directly from 0D&D

[lyric idol]

Ruins and Rogues?

R&R?

[marble lion]

I dont think dnd in-universe refers to places as dungeons either unless they are an underground prison or something alike

Its a meta term for gamers even in dnd

[fossil hollow]

mad mage

[shy stirrup]

Arneson's Castle Blackmoor had a dungeon level - prison cells - players found some kind of hole, a passageway leading deeper underground. This was a dungeon before D&D even existed, Gygax took that concept and put it underneath Castle Greyhawk. The rest is history 🤷‍♂️

[marble lion]

I dont know that one enough to judge

[cerulean monolith]

First, the referee must draw out a minimum of half a dozen maps of the levels of his "underworld", people them with monsters of various horrid aspect, distribute treasures accordingly, and note the location of the latter two on keys, each corresponding to the appropriate level.
This is the original definition what we would consider dungeons in D&D. It’s where the use of the term Dungeon in the broad ‘place of danger sense’ comes from.

[marble lion]

But i feel like the mad mages place is called a dungeon because its his dungeon

[scenic zinc]

entirely sure there's more than one origin of the term ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lyric idol]

We tend to call these a Trap.

[scenic zinc]

and as stated earlier, language is a living thing

[marble lion]

No it seems there is one origin, donjon

[lyric idol]

Traps & Trap avoiders would be the most accurate name for DND.

[marble lion]

What we do with it is living language yes

[knotty basin]

I. Despise. Traps.

[cerulean monolith]

Dungeon as in prison comes from donjon, dungeon as in place of danger comes from D&D. That’s it.

[lyric idol]

The perfect trap avoider if I've ever seen one.

[knotty basin]

At least, the “oh, you failed your perception check. Take half your health in damage just for funsies” kind

[marble lion]

It still makes sense to point out that most dungeons arent what a dungeon usually is

[cerulean monolith]

You should pick up Find Traps! Surely that would be a useful spell for you!

[marble lion]

You still get to make a save to reduce or avoid the damage

Most traps also dont take half your hp i think

[knotty basin]

I mean, in CoS I went from full HP to 0 from a trap

[marble lion]

Its usually more of a quarter if failing the save i think

[lyric idol]

Not much treasure is kept in a normal dungeon/prison.

[knotty basin]

Thankfully I got healed and I only lost a hand.

[marble lion]

Yes though having the treasury in a secure underground space makes sense too

No big leap there to put treasure into the actual dungeon

[knotty basin]

Yeah, putting the valubles next to the criminals seems like a bad idea

[cerulean monolith]

Death House or ||elevator trap||?

[knotty basin]

Death house

[marble lion]

I myself just dont call places dungeon personally as a dm

Unless its an underground prison, with some possible extra rooms

[lyric idol]

Steal? Treasure? You mean us criminals? Please. I'd probably never do that.

[cerulean monolith]

I use dungeon to refer to a specific style of play I facilitate as a DM when running large enemy-infested areas

[shy stirrup]

Like them or not, traps exist for several very good reasons 🤷‍♂️

[marble lion]

Yeah its reasonable as a meta term

[knotty basin]

I prefer when traps are clearly visible and used to give the enemies a home turf advantage

[cerulean monolith]

That is, players grab their tokens and rub them furiously against the fog until I finish thumbing through my notes and remove it

[marble lion]

No because its safekeeping

[lyric idol]

I prefer to make then hidden and still used to give the enemies home turf advantage 😄

[marble lion]

If you worry that your prisoners will break into your vault, you have other problems

Having both prison and vault underground is a perfectly fine choice

Just dont lug the gold into their cells

[lyric idol]

Some of these dungeons are made to hold creatures of insane power magic and danger. Why wouldnt I worry theyd break out and steal my treasure?

[marble lion]

Prisons and vaults are mainly to seperate the contents from the outside world

Putting them underground is a good choice unless were considering earthglide etc

[lyric idol]

You always keep your vaults separate from your prisons. Its just a good habit to follow.

[marble lion]

If you think your prisoner can not only break out of your prison but also into the vault

Thats just really really poor show

Not only do they have the time to break out but they also have the time and leisure to then get through the vault security?

No way. If youre competent you will have them escaping as soon as they can in most situations

[lyric idol]

A tadbit of paranoia never hurt a man to protect his treasure. Also have you seen some of the creatures kept in these dungeons? If they got out they absolutely could break into a vault.

[marble lion]

The paranoia is having the vault and prison both in the safest spot

Thats my point exactly

[undone fable]

okie dokie. I love ranger builds so im happy to help

[marble lion]

Otherwise you wouldnt keep your prisoners in one prison either

[lyric idol]

The best paranoia is having them in 2 best spots far away from each other.

[marble lion]

Well yeah if you can afford 2 high security locations thats absolutely correct

No argument there
But if you have 1 castle

[lyric idol]

Its like putting a bank next to a jail. Its just bad business.

[marble lion]

You want both valuables, the vault and the prisoners, kept in that 1 castles safest spot

[knotty basin]

I mean, just maybe put up a wall between them

[marble lion]

No its not the same

[knotty basin]

Don’t have them connected

[marble lion]

Yeah obviously

[lyric idol]

Its absolutely the same.

[marble lion]

Its not because bank and prison are 2 institutions of a community

[lyric idol]

So is my vault and my prison

[marble lion]

This vault and prison are both parts of a complex owned by the villain

Unless the villain is rich enough to have multiple locations with equal high security, theyd put things they want kept in the safest spot

No matter if that is captives, gold or an artifact

[lyric idol]

I usually make my villains pretty rich tbh.

[marble lion]

And even then, temporary treasure being temp stored at the facility would still be in a vault in the safest spot of that prison location which in this assumption is the dungeon

[lyric idol]

A BBEG especially should have a pretty penny. Yknow, to afford armies and dungeons and committing multiple war crimes and such.

[marble lion]

Same as temporary prisoners being kept in the safest spot of the treasure location until moved, which would be the vault area

Imagine having a top security complex and not storing your captives/treasure there just because its close to the other, even though its still locally the safest spot

That seems very irrational to me

[lyric idol]

Temporary storage is one thing thats fine. A straight up vault for my treasure is another.

[old sluice]

Depends on the BBEG! If your BBEG is a serial killer, it's okay if they're poor

[lyric idol]

Thats true. Very true. But then they wouldnt need a vault or a prison

[old sluice]

Okay so, see, I missed the context of the conversation. And the context makes my comment look moronic

[lyric idol]

Nah its all good.

[old sluice]

So I'm going to hide my shame somewhere, don't mind me

Okay so I do have to say that I do not think it's a good idea to put prisoners in the same location as your vaults. Suddenly a jailbreak turns into a robbery

If someone does this, they're either extremely confident in the security, or they did it for other practical reasons.

[marble lion]

Would you split up prisoners too?

[old sluice]

While ideally, the place where you put prisoners should be away from your vaults, there can be a hundred different practical reasons why the only realistic option was to house both in the same place

[marble lion]

Suddenly 1 jailbreak turns into 2 jailbreaks

[old sluice]

That depends on so many factors that I have no idea how to give an answer

Too many variables.

[marble lion]

I think the mistake here is thinking of them as different while theyre really both just "thing you are keeping safe"

[old sluice]

Why am I imprisoning these people? What do I want with them? What is the security I can afford? How advantageous is the location?

[marble lion]

There are a few differences between the two but i think its important to point out the general similarity

Treasure cant break out and prisoners need food etc

[old sluice]

But in theory, yes, I would try to split up the prisoners

[marble lion]

If the prisoners are incapacitated without a chance of breaking out, its only about preventing break-INs

At that point its literally just another vault

At that point its the simple question of "all eggs, 1 basket"

There are pros and cons for both

I could even see a reason for it to be safer to keep vault and prison together

Imagine youre a party breaking into the prison portion, facing the challenges of the dm to protect the prisoners

[hushed mason]

This is very amusing because the adventure module (WOTC) I'm setting up right now has the dungeons and the treasure storage rooms on the same level.

[marble lion]

You need a longrest, you are low, you cant fight longer

[warped jay]

Can the new artificer create a heavy crossbow +1 at level 3?

[marble lion]

Are you gonna now break into the vault too, fighting those protective measures? Or are you extracting the prisoners safely before reinforcements arrive

I think the answer is pretty obvious

Not to mention if both vault and prison are in one spot, you have twice the local troops available because the vault guards will move to help the prison if youre smart as a villain

That is a TPK if both areas are balanced to be difficult encounters

In your scenario of split up the party fights one dragon guarding the prison, leaves, rests, and then travels to the vault and kills the other dragon there wellrested

If you had the vault and prison as one, the party would die fighting 2 dragons at once

Ofc once the party is actually strong enough to beat both at once, they win anyway and you lose all at once, but consider what that would mean for 2 seperate spots. They wouldnt even risk a death per dragon if they were strong enough to fight 2

So i really think its a superficial reaction to point and laugh at vault and prison being in one location that is presumably the safest possible the villain can bring

[old sluice]

It depends. How did I build the place? Who are my architects? How did they plan it? What is it made of? Who are my guards and how many?

There is no one size fits all here.

[marble lion]

Yes its an easy joke to make but its not a bad idea straight away

[marble lion]

Exactly

[old sluice]

Frankly, if this is some form of super-fortress, then sure. I'm having the prisoners in the dungeons, the vaults in the upper floor.

But if those are hidden locations? I would rather decentralize

[humble cairn]

Usually for purposes of an adventuring dungeon I like to have them be infrastructure that is either malfunctioning or been repurposed. Or both! Ancient ruins whose creators have long disappeared and whose defense mechanisms no longer do what they're supposed to that at the same time has been partially redesigned by new inhabitants who don't understand how it all works, but have gotten somewhere through trial and deadly error.

Therefore it doesn't have to make sense from the original designers standpoint.

What may originally have been food storage has been repurposed into a vault and the "prisoners" are just the undead remnants of the original inhabitants or pets that went feral.

[stoic obsidian]

I sometimes wonder if any player decided to not killed a villain, but make sure they can’t harm anyone ever again or make them suffer

[knotty basin]

So like, true polymorph the BBEG into an ant and put them in a jar?

[undone fable]

Would it be bad if theyre the bbeg in the shadows controlling everything?

[stoic obsidian]

More like chop their arms and legs off and keeping them alive to become a living punching bag

Yup I can be pretty evil

[stoic obsidian]

A lot more tame

[nova trellis]

More common then you think.

[stoic obsidian]

I bet it is

[nova trellis]

We fought a immortal berserker and our DM kept repeating how immortal he was. We basically turned him into a chicken nugget then left him on a hook.

[stoic obsidian]

If a villain gonna be the monster, then they better be prepare for the monster they spawned

[past surge]

Guys what's the issue with creating Charisma only paladin with magic Initiate (wizard) and use true strike cantrip for your attacks instead?

[stoic obsidian]

I turn them into a backpack instead

[nova trellis]

Theres also the infinite tsukuyomi. Basically a infinite endless dream.

[stoic obsidian]

Because you won’t be using your extra attack

And you lacking armor if you only focus on charisma ( if you are doing standard array) and paladins

[fossil hollow]

you dont get Extra attack

[past surge]

What extra attack?

[turbid vessel]

Paladins get an extra attack when they take the attack action at level 5

[stoic obsidian]

#dnd-newcomers

[past surge]

OH NO SMITES? NO WAY

[scenic zinc]

no one said that.

[past surge]

Never played paladin thought that was a fighter only thing lol

[turbid vessel]

A lot of the martial classes get it, fighters get even more at later levels tho

[stoic obsidian]

….. do you not read the book? Because you know this if you did

[scenic zinc]

most people only read the parts relevant to their character

[past surge]

Why would I read about smt I don't need

[pearl hedge]

GOODBERRY 😄

[stoic obsidian]

Oh I don’t know in case you want to play another class like you are now, rules, items, monsters

Seriously you expect people to hold your hand during character creation every time

[hushed mason]

expect.

[stoic obsidian]

Thanks

[hushed mason]

It's a funny typo because it's still a word. 😄

[stoic obsidian]

It happens

[hushed mason]

So does forgetting what one has read. I can be staring at something on the screen, go ask a question... only to have someone tell me that the answer was in the paragraph I just read.

I get it, though. Sometimes you just want to send someone to "let me google that for you".

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, and I can imagine the person googling be like “why didn’t they google it”

[hushed mason]

Usually, I'd say that I default to either being kind and doing a quick search/answer or just keeping my mouth shut, but I was kinda flabbergasted by the response "Why would I read about smt I don't need".

[stoic obsidian]

Exactly my thought too

And it kinda tick me off a bit, like you do realize it be handy to know what other people classes do for you won’t be like “why the rogue hiding?”

[hushed mason]

Why wouldn't you want to learn everything about the game you play? I guess, NPC combatants are a little different in 5e, but I would assume that some of them still might be made like PCs, and that's a good enough reason. Know thy enemy.

[stoic obsidian]

And why wouldn’t you read item descriptions, because your dm might ask what item you want and you give them idk

Then they might give you something you might not want or care about

[hushed mason]

TO be totally honest, I haven't read the PHB or DMG cover to cover. But I can tell you the hit die, BAB, and base saves of all the core classes in my edition of choice.

[fossil hollow]

you dont need to really

[stoic obsidian]

Reading the books can be fun too

[stoic obsidian]

Or you can read it if you need to, but don’t go asking people to do it for you

[hushed mason]

If you don't read it, you don't know what you don't know.

[stoic obsidian]

Exactly

Anyway

Paladin using full charisma is possible but it would most likely involve shill (Druid initiate) or pact of the blade (1lvl warlock dip)

And a decent amount of strength or dex to have a suitable armor class

[hushed mason]

Dex is often a dump stat for paladins (in older editions) because they often wear heavy armor.

[stoic obsidian]

Usually

I was assuming 2024

[hushed mason]

I'm assuming thats what y'all are talking about.

[stoic obsidian]

But still rather have heavy armor

[stable solar]

I personally have strength as a dump stat usually, at most I get it to 13 to multiclass...

[stoic obsidian]

Even on paladin?

[stable solar]

Yea i usually go for dex builds then, Rapier is not a bad weapon overall

[stoic obsidian]

Strength builds aren’t bad either imo

[stable solar]

And even if i use strength as my main stat, thats usually when I have magic items like belt of hill giant strength to compensate

[stoic obsidian]

Only if you get it

[stoic obsidian]

Because monsters sure do love strength saves

[silver dock]

critcrab keeps saying "art-if-ice-r" instead of "art-eh-fisher" and it's kinda getting on my nerves

[stable solar]

I usually encounter dex saves, which probably gives me a bias for it...

Traps and whatnot, breath weapons...

[hushed mason]

it should be /ˈɑː.tɪ.fɪs.ər/

[stoic obsidian]

Probably because they aren’t going to do what you want them to do

They are their own person

[hushed mason]

art-eh-fisher would be odd pronunciation.

[old sluice]

Careful. Many breath weapons require a con save rather than dex

[stoic obsidian]

And be wary of the kraken

[old sluice]

Many a monk and rogue have foolishly faced a dragon and taken that specific lesson to the grave

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh the most common saves are strength,Wis,con, and dex

[old sluice]

Truer words were seldom spoken.

[hushed mason]

What kind of saves are typically associated with the strength score?

[stoic obsidian]

Grapple

[glass granite]

Getting pushed

[stoic obsidian]

That too

[past blaze]

being wrapped in vines, something trampling over you, a push effect, etc

[old sluice]

Tis a legacy of bygone editions, when only three saves existed that went by the names of reflex, vigor and will.

[past blaze]

something where you can by sheer strength just tough that out and overpower the effect

[old sluice]

Most often it will be effects that aim to push or restrain you.

[stoic obsidian]

It because deadly against a hoard

[eager marsh]

Dex, con, and Wis saves are the relevant ones and the ones specifically separated so no class has more than one of them proficient as a baseline

Higher level features and subclasses excluded here of course

[stoic obsidian]

Hold the fighter and the rest start to swam the spellcasters

[lofty kayak]

Hello I'm new here but quick question where would I go to get ideas for adventures/map ideas. (Context I'm going to be a DM for the first time and my friends are all playing for the first time. They wanted to do a campaign very similar to the lightning round of episode 5 from TADC and I'm all for it but I was wondering how I can set that up and what traditional simple adventures I can do that's not too hard)

[hushed mason]

Have you tried... gooogling? 😄

[old sluice]

The rule, not so much a rule as it is a loose suggestion, is thus:
Strength saves are to resist being pushed or restrained
Dexterity saves are to dodge out of the way of something
Constitution saves are to resist poisons, toxins, and other things that directly interfere with your body
Intelligence saves are to see through illusion magic
Wisdom saves are to prevent your mind from being altered
Charisma saves are to resist magical displacement.

[hushed mason]

Fascinating. Thank-you.

[fossil hollow]

Int saves are usually how well you can take in a lot of mental information

[stoic obsidian]

Synaptic Static, now you hear nothing but static

[stuck shuttle]

I'm not familiar with TADC but if you wanted adventure suggestions & DM tips we have #dm-discussion !

And then #dnd-maps has a whole bunch of maps people post constantly. Another good resource is reddit's r/battlemaps

[lofty kayak]

Thank you

[stoic obsidian]

The Amazing Digital Circus

[hushed mason]

Oh, yes, I like r/battlemaps

[old sluice]

But there is a large imbalance in favour of wisdom, dexterity and constitution. First because for long those three were the only saves therefore spells ported from previous editions keep targeting them.
Secondly for the simple fact that some things are more common than others. You are much more likely to be poisoned than to be faced with elaborate magical illusions after all

[eager marsh]

The imbalance is intentional

[stoic obsidian]

That makes sense

[old sluice]

Indeed. This is the second point.

[past blaze]

There's at least the inherent factor of anyone having one of the good saves

[stoic obsidian]

And sometimes it nice having a niche save

[stoic obsidian]

Say that to lvl 15 monk

[eager marsh]

It’s why most characters take resilient at some point to get 2/3 of the main saves

[past blaze]

when you hit the clutch save against a mind blast or a possession

[eager marsh]

You spend almost the entire campaign not having that feature realistically

[lyric idol]

No. Better even. A twist villain with enough foreshadowing makes a great bbeg.

[old sluice]

Monk is a class defined by its defensive ability, so their exception to that rule, that comes quite a bit late in progression though, is a feature.

[stoic obsidian]

I just pointing that out

[old sluice]

Monks are meant to have a defensive tool against every possible type of offence

[stoic obsidian]

Defect Attack, evasion, patient defense heighten, ectra ectra

[summer lava]

Anyone down for a dnd one shot? My dm has been itching for one but im the only one who wants to play in the group

[eager marsh]

Bladesinger laughing in better defenses for most of the game

[stoic obsidian]

They are defensive beast

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[old sluice]

Now that brings to mind an idea for a gestalt campaign a DM I know has been thinking about... Kensei/bladesinger.

[eager marsh]

Gestalt….thats a headache and a half

[old sluice]

A MADer build the world has never seen. Yet with the stats to make it work it may be among the more powerful gestalt builds...

[stoic obsidian]

You mad man

[empty thicket]

its kinda understandable tho, they cant use shields, martial weapons or armors normally

and they are mostly close range, giving them tools to protect from range, effects and other many things seems okey for me

[stoic obsidian]

The question tho be

What are the stats

[old sluice]

Simply put you need everything except strength and charisma

You need high dexterity, high wisdom, high intelligence, high constitution.

[empty thicket]

oh true and monks cant use spells too

[stoic obsidian]

They actually can

[old sluice]

So it is really only playable if you are rolling for stats and got very high.

[empty thicket]

beside some subclasses?

[stoic obsidian]

If you are multiclassing as a spellcaster

That is

[eager marsh]

Only barbarian has a strict ‘you can’t cast spells’ and that’s while raging

[old sluice]

Or if your DM is quite generous with bonus half-feats as a story reward. And with manuals and tome.

[empty thicket]

yeah but that can work with any character, i mean the class.

[stoic obsidian]

Which we are talking about

[empty thicket]

the class only, the resources and how its his style

[stoic obsidian]

This is what we are talking about

[empty thicket]

wait, what was a gestalt?

[undone fable]

art-i-fi-sir

or is it art-viser?

[old sluice]

A gestalt campaign is one where all characters have two classes that level up simultaneously

At character level 5, the character is a fifth level barbarian and a fifth level fighter

[empty thicket]

damn, sound interesting in one way and troublesome in another

[eager marsh]

You use the greater value of overlaps. Like you use barbarian hit dice not fighter

[empty thicket]

a wizard sorcerer must be giga op, unless it have some limits

[silver dock]

art if ice er
🎨❓🧊er

[eager marsh]

But you have all class features of both at once. All skills. All saves. Sorcerer wizard gestalt suffers from poor spellcaster stat balancing unless you specifically only use utility with one of them and spells that don’t use save DCs or attacks

[undone fable]

Art eh ice er?

[empty thicket]

okey okey, so in a Gestalt there is the variety

and i guess teh idea of multiclassing in such thing is just banned or not so good

[old sluice]

A gestalt character is powerful, yes. But in theory a fifth level gestalt is less powerful than a tenth level regular.

[empty thicket]

their stats get that bad?

[eager marsh]

You cannot gestalt unless the DM arranged he campaign to be that way

[old sluice]

Gestalts win in utility, endurance (more class resources means more time before they are used) and versatility.

[eager marsh]

You are still only level 5. You just have more features

You only have 5 hit dice. A +3 proficiency bonus, etc

[old sluice]

In raw power, the tenth level character still rolls higher and has more damaging options.

[empty thicket]

Split personality character would go HARD with that honestly.

[eager marsh]

Ehh you can just do that normally

[old sluice]

I would recommend not doing that

[woven flint]

Its rather distasteful, honestly

[empty thicket]

okey, just for my understanding, A gestalt just level up Slower?

and another part, they dont have acces to the subclasses too?

[old sluice]

Split personality leads generally to one of two outcomes.
First one is a stereotypical character whose mental illness is played for laugh, which gets old by the sixth session
Second one is a character played realistically. In which case it is not only depressing but goes in some very uncomfortable areas.

[old sluice]

They level up normally. And they have subclasses.

[eager marsh]

The DM has to choose to run a Gestalt game for the whole party and simply has to balance encounters differently

[empty thicket]

okey, i didnt got it that you said before about level fifth and 10

[old sluice]

My example may have been complex or poorly formulated, which has apparently misled you. My apologies

Normally people run a gestalt campaign for one of two reasons. Either because they have too few players for an adventure balanced around a much larger party, or they want the difficulty to be drastically increased. We're talking instead of ten goblins in the cave, it's a clan of fifty.

Nevermind goblins. An army of ogres at level 2.

[eager marsh]

That’s a lot exaggeration

Level 2 gestalt characters are not that much stronger than regular level 2 that they can handle such leaps of danger

[old sluice]

I find that being slightly hyperbolic gets the point across

[eager marsh]

I disagree when the person is clearly already misunderstanding the concept as is

[old sluice]

Though I did not mean that the army would be fought at once

[fossil hollow]

trying to think up of ways to spice up char creation for my elemental campaign that isnt just extra magic item or feat

[eager marsh]

Are the characters elemental?

[old sluice]

Define "elemental campaign"

[empty thicket]

like, i see that a gestalt can have more tools, more depending of the class

and with such "variety" i guess the challenge would be a bit more harder

[fossil hollow]

got a dwarf moon druid, warforged battlesmith arti, yokai touched (kalashtar) archfey warlock, elarin genie palladin so far
-# (also, you interested?)
So far what ive done is give them free dragonmarks

[empty thicket]

A Fighter//Warlock would be powerful in more than one sense i guess, but still have his flaws

[fossil hollow]

the campaign is focused on the elements, elementals, and elemental evil cults

[old sluice]

That is a good point. Allow me to amend:
Gestalt characters can handle a slightly larger scope and deal better with being outnumbered and facing enemies more structured due to the diversity of their toolkit.
So, while the normal party would deal with a marauding trio of ogres, the gestalt would find that this trio has partnered with a gnoll clan of two dozens and have a relatively secure camp

[eager marsh]

I told you already your games start too late for me even if I am interested. I would have suggested the Strike of the Giants origin feat varied by the elements each character is leaning into and possible give them them lv4 upgrade feat for free at that level as well

[undone fable]

Hows it going for dnd

[fossil hollow]

hmmm... while that does fit... i dont wanna just do more extra feats 😅

[old sluice]

Those giant feats are a good idea... But I might go another way. Rather than spice up character creation, I would add something during the first session.

[empty thicket]

i just imagined literally 2 cults being inside of some restaurant and the tension being so big that you can sense it. None do nothing, eat in their side until one of them trip after coming from the bathroom on the rival cultist table and there is like a big bar fight

[undone fable]

Dnd feats?

do you pronounce the spell "geas" as "geese"?

[eager marsh]

No

[fossil hollow]

yeah, i try to have some sorta spice when it comes to chars, wether its renown, piety, or expanded heroic intervention stuff

[eager marsh]

You pronounce it like the anime. Gi-ahs

[fossil hollow]

essentially im lookind for a character facing gimmick

[fossil hollow]

supresses urge to make the joke pronounciation

[old sluice]

Alright then consider: You have four PCs and there are four elements. Maybe that is the way to go?

[fossil hollow]

thought about it... but i dont wanna force them into a role

two of them have mark of storm too, so that would be two air characters

[old sluice]

Then maybe magic items?

[fossil hollow]

and the genie paladin isnt really focusing on one element

[old sluice]

I think storms can be air, yes. But storms also set things on fire and involve copious amounts of water

[fossil hollow]

^

[old sluice]

Oh yeah my bad.

[fossil hollow]

al good

[undone fable]

the genie paladin is that faerun subclass with the winter walker ranger right?

[empty thicket]

One can be a tornado(air) and another a hurricane (water)

[fossil hollow]

might just think about it later on in campaign then

[eager marsh]

Sandstorm (earth)

[glass granite]

Yes, it’s in the same book

[old sluice]

What are their backstories?

Maybe that is where the answer lies

[empty thicket]

Armors that give elemental power, amulets, marks, etc. etc.

There is lots of options

[fossil hollow]

moon druid is a dwarf who left home and spent some time as a hermit.
archfey as far a i can tell just lives nearby for now
genie paladin is part of a local faction
artificr is trying to introduce industrialization and more magitech

[empty thicket]

mmmmmmmmmm.......................

[fossil hollow]

-# one of them is not like the other

[empty thicket]

i saw industrialization and got the meme of "the industrial revolution and its consequences" in my head

[fossil hollow]

thats what popped into my head to lmao

[empty thicket]

God, 1 neuron moment literally

[fossil hollow]

... idea, stolen from genshin impact, but the elemental damages interacting with one another

[empty thicket]

okey, there is the classic 4 elements isnt it? Water, fire, air and earth

[fossil hollow]

ja

[lyric idol]

So whats the next DND book supposed to be?

[undone fable]

the psion book? /nsrs

[pure talon]

whats the best way to either join a dm or find people to do a campaign guys if i may ask

[lyric idol]

Facebook ngl

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[pure talon]

i dislike facebook 😭

[fossil hollow]

we have no idea yet so far

[empty thicket]

Middle ground elements?
Air//water = Mist
Earth//fire = Magma
Water only can do ice
Yeah, im coping from Avatar.

[lyric idol]

Yeah I only use FB for 1 thing: DND. When I sold cars forever ago I used it to post cars online.

[fossil hollow]

yeah, i got those too;

• fire/air = lightning/tempest
• water/earth = ooze/mud/plant, etc

[lyric idol]

Ice would be Water + Wind (stealing off Naruto)

[empty thicket]

Can add in some point a character that is son from 2 cults and have natural use of both sides and his own side. For each side being something bad and idk, your party can use an hybrid or smt

[umbral girder]

That’s also how it is in D&D fun fact!

[fossil hollow]

yeah, i do have the paramentals making an appearance

[umbral girder]

when the plane of air and water meet it has the Plane of Ice

[empty thicket]

Damn, that explain why the lair of the Air dragon was all cold

[fossil hollow]

when you control air, it shouldnt be too hard to make hot or cold

[umbral girder]

I think water and earth is Slime

[fossil hollow]

thermodynamics babye

[umbral girder]

Hold one we got a map in the PHB for this

[fossil hollow]

its officially called ooze

elemental scions stuck in my mmory banks for a while

[umbral girder]

Ash, Ooze, Magma, and Ice

[fossil hollow]

i think theres even more, but usually lsser/irellevant for the most part

[umbral girder]

Actually no

There isn’t anymore, the spell plague killed them

[fossil hollow]

oh.

[umbral girder]

Basically all the elemental planes destroyed them all into a big soup of elemental chaos

[red steppe]

Blame Mystra for that

[umbral girder]

5e brought the current 8 back

[fossil hollow]

im surprised the mephits still exist then

[umbral girder]

That’s more Cyric actually

[red steppe]

Oh

[umbral girder]

Mystra was involved, being the assassination target

[fossil hollow]

still mystra's fault for dying

[red steppe]

true

[umbral girder]

Ah yes its her fault for being the victim of a murder plot.

[red steppe]

All those divination spells and yet still couldn't see whatever Cyric was about to pull off

[fossil hollow]

should have seen it coming smh

[umbral girder]

She didn't cast them.

[red steppe]

Shouldve rest casted smh /j

[fossil hollow]

obviously im joking, just never turn down a moment to dog on mystra always dying

[umbral girder]

Also he is a god of secrets. Meaning his entire point is not being seen or known of.

[red steppe]

Based

[hearty bay]

Man, I think that I just figured out how to counter the bbeg's gimmick in the campaign I play on

[solid echo]

Potion of healing takes 8 hours to make yea?

[hearty bay]

We're fighting an entity whose power is to erase anyone they kill from the collective memory of everyone who knew the slain person

[solid echo]

Anyways to speed that up that arnt class specific?

[empty thicket]

make the entity suicide and no one will remember it(?)

[hearty bay]

No

[umbral girder]

Yes

[empty thicket]

100 angry baboons?

Work more often that one would like

[solid echo]

I get for game balance, but like..what does that look like? What about it takes 8 hours of active work

[umbral girder]

To my knowledge no? I might be wrong but I think if you split the work its faster. Only artificer and Tasha's bubbling cauldron are the ways around it I can think of.

[hearty bay]

By sharing information in separate moments, through different people. The entity, I think, shouldn't completely erase memories from talks in which the person wasn't involved, so if crucial information is shared at separate moments, the only way for the entity to erase it is by killing everyone

[umbral girder]

Magical/Science stuff.

Its a fantasy game mechanic after all. Not like I'd know.

[solid echo]

That 2nd one is a magic item?

[empty thicket]

oh.... so no 100 baboons?

[umbral girder]

6th level spell

[solid echo]

Ahh I see

[umbral girder]

From the 2024 Player's handbook

Makes 4 potions of uncommon tier or lower

[fair condor]

Guys i might be a little slow. Im new to dnd and haven’t played yet so i went to #looking-for-players and to look for a game and i accidentally messages the bot instead of the dm😭

Messaged*

[hearty bay]

If I tell a group about the entity's gimmick and they erase me, so does the information I've said. However, if the people talk about it in a separate moment, they register the idea regardless if I stay alive

[empty thicket]

Its okey, everyone do mistakes. Unless you said after finding out your mistake "okey, sorry for the problems" to the bot

[empty thicket]

Question, even wrote stuff get erased?

[lyric idol]

No.

[hearty bay]

It doesn't, but people can't recall anything about the person who wrote it, nor anything about the paper even existing, if it isn't in their possession, since it was given by the erased person

[lyric idol]

False hydra right?

[hearty bay]

Reading it causes ramping psychic damage that quickly kills you

[fair condor]

🫣🫣

[hearty bay]

If you're acquainted to the erased person

[hearty bay]

We don't know exactly. We assume it's a demon/devil or eldritch entity

[lyric idol]

Oops 😅 hopefully I didnt spoik it for the DM

[empty thicket]

so read a paper or anything with some info from someone that was deleted give you an aneurysm and kill you. Amazing.

[fair condor]

Guys for my first game should i play a human bard? That’s what im thinking but idk if it’s too complicated. Any recommendations for beginner friendly races and classes?

[hearty bay]

If you knew the person, yes. It does nothing for people who weren't affected by the erasure

[empty thicket]

The guy that was sent to buy stuff by his parents and his parents got deleted in existence and then he read the shopping list:

[hearty bay]

They usually even forget they were sent there

So for them it's just a blip, like they sleepwalked there

[lyric idol]

Bard is fun and actually comes with expertise that makes a couple skills have double proficiency

[hearty bay]

The entity's reach is way beyond anything we've seen. We saw an npc who casually sealed a lich's eye on a wall being heavily tampered by the entity

[empty thicket]

Caster class get troublesome,
The "Easier" caster class is wizard, variety, easy to understand, not so hard.
Then in martial i always recommend fighter, easy to get, survive good, can adapt in many ways, etc. etc.
Going Paladin isnt bad and you can do a bit of everything
Never Rogue.

[lyric idol]

Yeah either this is what I think it is or your DM cooked up an absolute unit just for your party. And I dig it.

[lyric idol]

Bard isnt that hard to understand. As long as you understand what the class features do its a simpke entry.

[fair condor]

Alright, so would i be simpler to be a fighter or wizard? I kinda just want to start from the easiest to learn just so i can kinda build up my knowledge from there

[empty thicket]

True, but still have lots of features and if you saw, 2 of 3 class i recommended can use medium//heavy armors because i get that survival in early isnt easy too

[empty thicket]

Yes, More fighter because you can adapt and is "simple", Wizard you will have to learn about the spells and embrace the idea that oyu are soft, so your gameplay must be more in backline and covered

[umbral girder]

Yeah Wizard is the easiest of the casters

Like other casters got a lot of different mechanics to juggle while wizard is just focused on their spells mainly.

[fair condor]

Alright i appreciate it

[hearty bay]

It makes a lot of sense that it could be what you've said, but my character isn't nearly deep enough into investigation to source it to something potentially that tangible

[empty thicket]

Still, fighter can acces to spells or other features in his subclass, so you can see and select what most adapt for your playstyle//fantasy.

[hearty bay]

The entity known just as "the forgotten" has a cult around it

[lyric idol]

I'm genuinely sorry if I spoiled it for you.

That DM sounds like it was cooking up quite the encounter ngl.

[hearty bay]

We've been 40 sessions deep into it (even if we just have 2 hours per session, it's a lot)

After reaching level 7, the dm announced the prologue is over

[empty thicket]

Yep, i was seeing the 3 principal casters classes and Warlock have lots of features so isnt easy to get and sorc is just kinda problematic
While wizard have lots of spells and a big variety on them, some supportish, some offensive, etc. etc.

[hearty bay]

Which was our most recent session

[umbral girder]

Warlock is probably tied with Druid in terms of being the most complex caster, if not most complex class.

[lyric idol]

Prologue 😅 oh shits about to hit the fan

[hearty bay]

I think it does things beyond what a false hydra can do, since it can curse people and empower them, as well

[empty thicket]

Arti, cleric and bard arent bad but its understanding that you are mostly a support//caster
Druid is.... weird
Fighter is okey
Paladin//Berserker//Monk are a bit more problematic but not hard to get

[hearty bay]

One of our party members got to cheat death when empowered by it

[lyric idol]

Definitely. I'd put Bard and Sorcerer up after wizard as the next easiest casters.

[umbral girder]

Eh

[hearty bay]

We have a hunch that it doesn't affect undead the same way it does living beings

[umbral girder]

I'd put Cleric equal to wizard and boost Bards and Sorcerers higher

[lyric idol]

Artificer is understanding that you should be choosing armorer or battle mage and if you dont youre sacrificing power for flavor.

[empty thicket]

Sorc have too much stuff on it, that is my problem with him. The whole metamagic is problematic and its too much options for a new player
Getting overwhelm with options is problematic

[hearty bay]

Artificer feels like a swiss army knife, but it might be solved, as far as what's good and what isn't

I knew armorer was busted

Someone told me the class was made for combo makers, because I have that fame despite playing the plainest of the barbarians

[lyric idol]

The metamagic is really easy and all it is is just rule reading. Sure twin spells gets complicated in 2024 rules but otherwise its simply what metamagic do you think would be most useful.

[empty thicket]

An arti make the life of others easier, the infusions can solve problems, their spells arent bad. The magic items are useful

[hearty bay]

Mostly because I can devote myself for cooking up pretty decently supported ideas

Such as a warlock focused on knee bonking and being a major annoyance

[lyric idol]

New artificer can now make items on the go that you mightve not prepared on top of everything else. Plus its subclasses are stronger now.

[hearty bay]

Imagine a character that hops around, hits your knee so hard you fall prone, and runs away taunting you

[umbral girder]

I'd like to try an Assassin rogue sometime

[empty thicket]

then strip while running back and the whole enemies surrond him and kick him in the ground, jojos style

[hearty bay]

This is my Hill Goliath archfey warlock

[empty thicket]

And the ally party dont stop them because he is annoying even for them

[lyric idol]

Its a lot of fun until you hit the level that gives you the ability to copy handwriting voice and stuff and realize itll never actually be useful in a campaign.

[hearty bay]

They'd be kicking their healer

Since this warlock would have healing and temp health powers

And you don't kick your healer

[empty thicket]

not them, the enemies would be

[hearty bay]

You said the allies would help the enemies in kicking him

[lyric idol]

Enemies realizing warlock is a healer: 🗿🗿🗿📈

[empty thicket]

"dont stop them" isnt helping them

[umbral girder]

Notably that same level lets you spam Steady aim without losing speed

Even then I don’t really play classes for combat anyway.

[lyric idol]

True. Everything else is good.

[lyric idol]

I play wild magic sorcerer so I can have advantage on everything and then spam random effect in combat.

[empty thicket]

Getting bald.

[hearty bay]

Basically the idea of a turn is:

• Bonk with pact weapon
• Use hill Goliath's saveless trip on hit
• Misty step away granting disadvantage on attacks against other targets
• Roleplay the debuff as taunting them while teleporting away

[lyric idol]

Randomly seeing butterflies vs striking 4 people deas with lightning. Random magic surge moment.

[lyric idol]

Mageslayer go brrrrr

[umbral girder]

A lot of my builds are just having a bunch of niche abilities because eventually they show up in a game

[hearty bay]

"eat dirt, you dung beetle" or something

[hearty bay]

None of that is affected by mage slayer

I'm not concentrating when doing such actions, and hill Goliath has a trip you can't save against

Unless the disadvantage has a wisdom save

[empty thicket]

Screaming all the time or making all your spells become a Bonus action cast

[umbral girder]

Yeah mage slayer can’t do much to Misty step

[lyric idol]

I like having abilities that are useful. They dont need to be the most important or anything, but lets be real. Sitting there being useless isnt fun.

[umbral girder]

My characters are mainly the “shotgun” method of having features. Probably why I do Rangers, Fighters, and Rogues so much.

[hearty bay]

But again, I could just walk back to them, do that all over, taunt again and ask "why does this smelly carpet keeps trying to walk away?

While they are laying on the floor with mud on their face

[lyric idol]

Fighters are fun. Especially echoknight but in general. Sometimes I just wanna beat someone over the head with a hammer 5 times in a turn.

[woven flint]

Hello, friends

[umbral girder]

Ehhh echo knight is one of the bottom ones for me

[empty thicket]

im still trying stuff, the one i have in my principal campaign is a Fighter champion. My paper in that team is being a DPS and holy cannelloni i am doing really good that. Sadly i have to improvise lots of things and tools.
Such like a hook for moving enemies or allies, a crossbow (heavy and with Repetitive shoot) for long range and molotovs for damaging groups of enemies

[umbral girder]

Neat!

[hearty bay]

I can also do all that with blink

[umbral girder]

With fighter you get to enjoy extra Feats so good luck!

Or just higher stat totals too

[hearty bay]

I was wondering if my artificer build was a proper approach

Warforged armorer with spellfire initiate

As background

[woven flint]

I like Druids...

I just wish majority of their spells weren't concentration

[umbral girder]

Ebberon character with a Forgotten realms background. Neat.

[woven flint]

I'm gonna be able to mess with Dragonmarks soon!
Playing a Moon Druid with the Mark of Sentinel

[empty thicket]

yeah, the difference is that in my most lucky moment, i can do like 3 critic attacks per turn.
Action surge and 3 more critic attacks. For now
(im level 7, 2 attacks and with the racial feature Savage attacks each time i do a critic attack i can do an extra attack. 1 Time per attack action)

4 if the bard buff me iwth haste (he did it one time and i obliterated one enemy)

[lyric idol]

Yeah well saying "I cast blink" doesnt compare to "So anyways, I pull out my crossbow with a grapplehook, and taking aim, I shoot at the archer 30 ft away. I hit? I use action surge. I now wanna make a strength check to pull the archer in. (Archer is pulled 15 ft in)."

[umbral girder]

Yep

[hearty bay]

I wasn't talking about doing that

[woven flint]

The reaction thing is mostly what I'm there for because i have a few melee allies, but the spells and extra 1d4 to Perception and Insight checks are pretty fun too

[tender pier]

So I had a neat idea for a Location

So, Metallic dragons are obviously good guys and their hoards are usually filled with treasures

But Rather than making a standard dragon hoard, I turned a ancient copper dragon hoard into a safe haven for refugees across nearby villages either if their village is destroyed or evacuated for safety issues

What do you all think?

[umbral girder]

Plus grappling hook tends to ignore counter spell

[hearty bay]

I was talking about hitting knees and being annoying

[tender pier]

I need criticism for this

[hearty bay]

Meant to say blink was another layer of that

[lyric idol]

"Counterspell this you filthy wizard."

[woven flint]

Counterspell can't counter things that aren't spells?!
Damnit, Nealen! You lied to me!

[umbral girder]

Counterspell

[empty thicket]

its good, i would add that the dragon let humans forgemasters use his metal and the best weapons, armors and stuff made by them is added to his hoard.

[woven flint]

Explodes

[lyric idol]

How can the BBEG not take offense to a dragon meddling in his destruction and mayham, on top of crave the treasures hidden in his stash. Sounds like an encounter to meeeee

[umbral girder]

The issue for the BBEG is that is an Ancient Dragon

One of the most powerful creatures to find in a plane of reality

[empty thicket]

Can be someone that want to use his scales and hoard for his own purposes. Not need to be some big powerful entity
Can be just a human, that know how to use his words and work his resources.

[lyric idol]

If you make a BBEG thats afraid of an NPC then you simply have not been creative enough with your BBEG. Create an elaborate plan for the BBEG and his army of scoundrels and whatever magical backing they have to bring the ancient dragon too its knees.

[umbral girder]

The answer is simply attack everything around the dragon.

[tender pier]

Well, the Dragon Dusax (Name of said ancient copper dragon)

allows anyone to make use of his hoard if it served a good purpose

He also gave them a map showing where the traps are and how to avoid them

Emergency exits, maintained farms (the breath of Dusax and a few light spellcasters maintained light in Dusax's hoard)

[umbral girder]

Why focus on something that can kill you when you can face other things that can't fight back?

[woven flint]

Because Copper Dragons are based

[lyric idol]

Its....too nice 😅 why wouldnt the party abuse this.

[empty thicket]

its an idea i have in the head by a long time, the big bad guy not being a powerful entity or person.
Its a guy that Its Smart and with that intelligence he use it for his plans.

[umbral girder]

Especially when its an Ancient Dragon the guys who can influence the multiverse

[lyric idol]

And why wouldnt the BBEG wanna claim all of it for himself.

[woven flint]

Copper Dragons love Heroic deeds.
If it caught wind of the party doing bad things with its stuff, I'm almost positive there'd be hell to pay

[umbral girder]

Its like "Why doesn't the penguin work around Darkseid?"

[lyric idol]

Yknow setting the BBEG vs an Ancient Dragon and using his intelligence to win would REALLY set the stage for a campaign ngl.

[tender pier]

Did I mentioned ancient copper dragon?

[lyric idol]

Thats the thing they dont need to do evil things they just got a bunch of ridiculous items and gold. Wheres the challenge? The adventure?

[woven flint]

You can't exactly easily abuse an Ancient Dragons benevolence, it's still close to Deity-hood, so you ought to watch your manners lol

[tender pier]

This goes for every benevolent being

[lyric idol]

I meant abuse as in "simplify the combat and the campaign" not "abuse as in use it malevolently"

[umbral girder]

its like asking "Why didn't Frieza plan for Beerus?"

[empty thicket]

The dragon can give them some missions too, be like a "boss" for the party for some time and the BBEG wanting to again, overtake all the hoard, place and more. Or the dragon can be protecting something giga powerful and the BBEG want that. There is options
I would go for one easier, the dragon is protecting an egg, the offspring of that dragon and another powerful dragon. The BBEG want that egg for turn it into his Weapon. The party must protect it until it hatch and protect the dragon.

[umbral girder]

If it were an Adult Dragon then I could see it.

[lyric idol]

Yeah I'd use the copper ancient dragon to show why the BBEG is such a threat. Aint no way I'd allow it to just hang around the entire campaign.

[woven flint]

Well, that's the thing, maybe the dragon allows them to borrow things, but it's not one for combat.

Or, perhaps the Copper Dragon is Polymorphed into a blacksmith or maybe some sort of Inventor because it thinks it's too old to be getting into fights

You can help the party without trivializing everything

[lyric idol]

It has a hoard of treasure. You could have an AI generate a random item and theres a good chance its something ridiculous

[umbral girder]

Big yikes

[woven flint]

Yeah? And?

[lyric idol]

Sorry I meant roll

[lyric idol]

I personally dont like it. Thats it.

[tender pier]

How do I explain that I do not got a BBEG since my campaign is just going to be ending... Well doesn't have a ending in a traditional sense

[lyric idol]

Thats the big thing.

[woven flint]

You simply make the threats strong enough to warrant said items, or the dragon only gives you items it thinks you're capable with.
Its a dragon, it still thinks it's above other beings

[empty thicket]

Then what would be the plot around it?

[umbral girder]

Probably guiding people to safety, aka the Ancient Dragon

[tender pier]

It's one of the many many questlines I've prepared for my friends since they can go anywhere if they can survive the land and environment

Then thrive there, after that more exploration

I haven't fleshed out the idea yet I just need help for this (which is why I said Idea, not a fully fleshed out thing)

[lyric idol]

I am getting an idea for a new campaign though and a new BBEG though through this.

[minor lake]

the strahd campaign is a reality

i am happy

[woven flint]

That is the most notable trait of Copper Dragons, they like rescuing people from peril
They'll often hangout near places where shipwrecks are oft to happen just to give a helping hand

[lyric idol]

I mean ig it doesnt sound bad when you put it like that.

[woven flint]

It's a narcissism thing, but they also seem to mean well

Everything a dragon does IS because they're narcissistic and self-important, afterall lol

[tender pier]

I was planning to make my party stumble across a abandoned or destroyed town

Then investigating finding clues about a ancient dragon

Then ending up facing him or the people living inside the hoard

Either they can be evil menaces, or the heroes

their choice

[empty thicket]

So a quest, episode for the party, etc. etc.
There is a big good dragon that help people and then,
what is the "Problem" that you would like to throw at them?
-Another dragon that find him disgusting for such acting around humans and his hoard and will take it. Party need to defeat dragon or just take it down (not kill, showing that having people around him give him power yara yara power of friendship thing)
-Some thieves wanting his treasure
-A deal that the dragon want to make with some cities for more in his collection

[lyric idol]

This idea sits better on me more and more. Especially with the freedom of choice.

[woven flint]

Perhaps the dragon is sick or injured and the party must find medicine or some sort of something to help cure its ailments

Maybe it doesn't have to be at full power and that warrants it swallowing its pride to ask for help

[umbral girder]

Dragons can have multiple lairs that effect an area. Perhaps the Dragon needs you to collect treasure so they can make multiple safe points to help people.

Since treasure is what helps channel the dragon's power into reality.

[lyric idol]

If its an ancient dragon it def doesnt need help with that.

[tender pier]

So, the current problem is that the people are living in constant fear due to hostile armies having plundered their land

And And are willing to accept any help from anyone

the ancient copper dragon can't really do much as if he tries to directly fight the army

He would surely be caught or die fighting

And leaving the people in his hoard unguarded

Or if my party chooses the evil option, they have alot of options to choose from

Either direct slaughter, Long term betrayal, or some unhinged evil plan

[umbral girder]

Each key points you need influenced can have their own bad guys to deal with.

[woven flint]

Dragon shadow government that steals all my damn gold

[empty thicket]

The dragon hoard get turned into a Metal golem and attack him and need help to take down the golem without destroying it because its still his treasures

[lyric idol]

An acient dragon dying to an army?

[woven flint]

That's an intersecting one

[woven flint]

It's not far from unrealistic you know, it just depends on what the army is, but if they're powerful enough or numerous enough, it can definitely happen

[tender pier]

Dusax can't leave his cave for too long otherwise its unguarded

while he can and have traversed tens of miles trying to find suitable allies

he had no luck as Either they are too weak or too greedy (Dusax can sense Alignment and Morality)

His best hope currently is trying to find other metallic dragons similar to him

Or dragons that will join his side

[woven flint]

Hell, parties of like 4-5 adventures can take on ancients and greatwyrms without being an army
Depending on level

[umbral girder]

Yeah a goblin army would die.
But a Drow army has a very good chance to challenge an Ancient Dragon

[empty thicket]

welp, that is good. Would make the dragon offer good things to the party if they help to fight back the armies or make them stop.
If not would make hte party meet the armies beforehand and talk with them, giving them the idea of being the "good guys" when reality is that the dragon is good. Making the decision harder

[umbral girder]

Especially since Matron Mothers are near that level of power.

[tender pier]

Many high level warriors, wizards, etc

It's a highly organised army belonging to a nation

Not some poultry unorganised bandit army

[lyric idol]

Oooh theres an option for sidequest. Gather allies between foreign nations and the survivors of that nations attacks to form an alliance against that nation and its allies.

[woven flint]

Even Ancient Dragons need to worry about what fights they take on

[tender pier]

My party can encounter the quest line early on or like late game

If its early on, they would have to be cautious

If its late game, they would still have to be cautious as high ranking warriors can easilly outnumber them

[lyric idol]

Another optional side quest is defeat certain vital commanders in the enemy nations offensive army to disband their army for a short time and allow the copper dragon to recover.

[tender pier]

Or if its late game, they probably would have their own army by now

Or atleast have some allies that are very strong (maybe a few adult dragons while at it)

[tender pier]

Oh hey nice idea, thz

Well gtg thx for the ideas chaps

[lyric idol]

👋

[woven flint]

Indeed!

Maybe the evil guys or bad army has an Ancient Black Dragon within their ranks that they've hired to help eradicate opposing armies since Black Dragons love murder lmao

I'm a bit of a sucker for Dragon V Dragon.
I don't... see it much in campaigns

[tender pier]

Nevermind chaps, I was wrong when I said that I thought I had to go

[empty thicket]

I would make it more often, make that some dragons have like their places and different kinds of hoards
Some dragons that are intelligent having a whole school and their hoard being their students
The metal dragon i said before about hoarding the armors, weapons, etc. Made by his forgemasters
Would even make a dragon that his hoard is an army that would be the most powerful army in that world adding strong warriors to it.

[solemn quiver]

big dragon v dragon fan too, its what my main campaign is about in fact

[tender pier]

They don't have any ancient dragons in their ranks in their creation process

they only have adult dragons (all chromatic colours)
But they don't use em unless it's a big war or desperation

since I wanted to make the nation powerful, but not absurdly powerful to the point my friends point out why are they focusing on one hoard if they can invade the other nearby nations

[tender pier]

The nation is already seen as powerful

and at the same time, not worth conquering in the eyes of the higher empires

[marble lion]

Only if that is what happens in the campaign, written by the dm

[tender pier]

I would litterally Dm anything that is related to video games, novels, etc

if they are action and have great characters, and also cool stuff

But different timezones so can't, maybe go to the
#looking-for-dm or #looking-for-players channels

Idk, I got school Tom and can't be online that often

[vapid knoll]

Yo I’m new and are looking t in get into the game can someone explain it to me

[crystal raven]

same

[hot gate]

you can check out #dnd-newcomers for that - there are lots of links in the pinned posts and you can also let people know if you have any specific questions about the game

[spice stump]

All you need to know is gamble gamble and gamble

[vapid knoll]

Huh

[vapid knoll]

Thanks

[tender pier]

This game is a secret gambling addiction
I can't prove it yet

[feral finch]

Hi guys I’m new to dungeons and dragons and I think it would be a good game to fulfill my imagination

Should I get the monster manual

[final dawn]

On this server, you play D&D games???

[glass granite]

No

[final dawn]

Ok, thanks

But do you know of any servers where games are played?

[feral finch]

I have been making homebrew creatures

[inner silo]

Ah i see. Idk how good that would be since rangers don't get that much stuff to use action surge for and you'd miss out on the epic boon feat which can be pretty crutial or another ranger ability

[inner silo]

Wild magic surge

[reef tundra]

#find-a-game will help you

[feral finch]

I’m so confused on how to play dnd

[inner silo]

Hi @reef tundra

[reef tundra]

Hi cracker

[reef tundra]

#dnd-newcomers will help you learn

[inner silo]

Essentially it's a story telling game where you and your players get together to make a story. The players play the main characters of the story and the dm plays the environment, villains and other parts of the world

[inner silo]

How are you doing today?

[reef tundra]

Doing good. Like my new display name?

[glass granite]

Damn it I was hoping you’d say “I’m doing good”

[inner silo]

I don't know who Astral Night is sadly

[reef tundra]

Haha jokes on you

[glass granite]

You’ve adapted

[inner silo]

The wheel turned

[reef tundra]

Ah dw, just advertising my setting as usual, Astral Night is… a confusing new part of my setting

[glass granite]

Your favourite PC being a changeling is starting to fit a lot more considering how many titles you’ve gone through

[inner silo]

Student of Astral Night sounds like a subclass tbh, a cool subclass

[reef tundra]

Yup, a changeling irl, me

[glass granite]

It really does