dnd-discussion

[crimson gulch]

i count the exp and tell them if they made it or not

[normal junco]

i jokingly gave the PCs three levels after a one-shot. i wont tease them again like that, but it was funny. we still mention it from time to time.

[raw ocean]

Doing milestone so whenever they need a level up and they haven't done much yet, just throw a hard-deadly encounter at them?

[wispy smelt]

Artificer:

When life gives you lemons, make lemon grenades.

[stable solar]

Maybe two deadly encounters , or three

[raw ocean]

My players were on like session 5 after mostly doing RP and puzzle stuff, I threw a troll and some goblins at them and 2 of them got downed on session 6

I gave them a level up since they did struggle quite a bit, and dealt with alot of sneak attacks from goblins

[normal junco]

i like the video where Mercer and BLeeM debate about XP vs Milestone.

[old sluice]

For your first town, there is a simple formula:

• Two feuding families of farmer who compete over land. Optionally: The children of the families are involved in a clandestine romance.
• There is a cranky old wizard living on the town's periphery. Earn his approval to get the right to copy spells from him and buy exotic supplies that he gets shipped from the capital. Optionally: The love interest and/or sibling of one PC is his long-suffering apprentice
• There is a blacksmith who used to work in the army and is tired of just making nails and horseshoes
• Some of the land is owned by a rich pompous owner who breeds horses
• The insane town beggar has actually lost their mind due to an encounter with a great evil and suffers from the Cassandra problem
• The town cleric is either very young and inexperienced or very old and close to death but relatively powerful

[raw ocean]

I don't want to trust my players with XP, I dont know what they might do for their XP

I once heard of a party that killed an entire town for XP, I don't know why their DM would allow that 😭

[stable solar]

I dont think that would give a lot of xp tbh

[old sluice]

10 xp for every commoner but why kill them?

Non-lethally incapacitating them gives you the same XP and you can come back to beat them up again for more XP

[woven flint]

Beating commoners for XP and maybe pay them a bit to be punching bags

"Let me knock your teeth out and you get 10 gold!"

[normal junco]

or... the method used in Guild Wars. Have the commoners defeat the PCs a number of times so that they level up. Then beat the levelled up commoner to get even more XP.

[crimson gulch]

if you cant trust your players you have bigger problems

[eager marsh]

Pretty sure only teh dm decides if exp is awarded at all so murderhoboing doesnt work per the rules

[normal junco]

true. sometimes the DM is chaotic neutral, though.

[undone fable]

DM is true neutral

[normal junco]

supposed to be.

[stable solar]

Sometimes the DM is chaotic chaos

[crimson gulch]

im a Lawful Raw Dm

[undone fable]

Lawful neutral Urizt

I want to DM more tbh but im nervous about worldbuilding and voices

[clear crown]

Hey I found some places in my area that play D&D

[normal junco]

awesome.

just remember that no D&D is better than bad D&D. don't stay in a toxic or dangerous situation.

[undone fable]

DnD is good game

When will 6e drop?

[crimson gulch]

im good with 5e for 10 more years personally

[idle oar]

6e... Not anytime soon.

[crimson gulch]

some new campaign books this coming year would be nice

[undone fable]

like what

[idle oar]

No that's their wish

For more campaaign books

[undone fable]

I like spelljammer and the quests of the infinite staircase personally.

[crimson gulch]

i want a big meaty location based campaign in the forgotten realms that builds off of this amazing new campaign setting guide they just dropped,

and i want another mega dungeon campaign ala mad mage.

[undone fable]

what is mad mage? also that first part is a mood

[crimson gulch]

the dungeon of the mad mage, came out in 2018, its a MASSIVE mega dungeon

[undone fable]

I want to do something just like that tbh

[stable solar]

Ive been trying to set up a solo campaign for the dungeon of the mad mage and honestly its a lot 😭

[orchid root]

Guys can I play D&D with my friends but online like thru zoom or discord? I was planning to see if I could make dnd but like a online version to play w my friends since my friends live in different city’s and etc

[normal junco]

i'd be surprised if there's another revision or whole edition in 2030. earliest i could foresee is 2032, maybe pushing to 2034. by then the infrastructure of DnDBeyond and the site and all that will likely need a complete overhaul. new hardware and software will have come out, and likely execs will have brainstormed whatever comes next that will entice people for the next version. if they're smart they'll keep the 5e digital stuff around as legacy, but the focus on the new thing. it wouldn't make sense to continue to make physical books going back to 2014. if they still even make physical books bot the game.

[crimson gulch]

My waterdeep campaign is on session 24 and we are over halfway through the dungeon

[crimson gulch]

oh yeah, when 6e comes out all the 5e stuff on dnd beyond is going to be a liability and not a product anymore, kinda like how they dumped the online tools for 4e

[undone fable]

I wanna try a mega dungeon. what do you guys recommend

[normal junco]

Scarlet Citadel?

[undone fable]

is barrier peaks a mega dungeon

[valid geyser]

normal sized dungeon

[undone fable]

Would it be a mega dungeon if I combined some adventures together?

[valid geyser]

thats just a campaign

[undone fable]

What do you mean? /gen

[knotty pasture]

Try Waterdeep Dungeon of the Mad Mage

The prequel is Waterdeep Dragon Heist

[normal junco]

be sure to include Minsc & Boo's Guide to Stuff and Things.

[knotty pasture]

Dragon Heist is level 1-5 and Mad Mage is level 5-20, combine both and you have a full 1-20 campaign

[valid geyser]

assuming theyre all dungeon modules, a linear string of one dungeon from another is kind of just a dungeon crawling campaign unless you were trying to say it was some frankendungeon, but that'd take some work

[undone fable]

Frankendungeon...

[valid geyser]

nevermind that sounds like a great idea

[undone fable]

I am planning the bbeg and the lead up to that.

[normal junco]

Mad Mage already has passages going off to undescribed locations and suggests incorporating any dungeon from any other adventure or campaign by just shoehorning it in.

[undone fable]

really?

so i can include the barrier peaks?

[valid geyser]

youre the DM

[stuck shuttle]

No the dungeon authorities will arrest you

[normal junco]

you can include Death House each time they pick a passage and you roll a 1 on a d20. if you want.

[undone fable]

Death house?

[knotty pasture]

Considering how big Mad Mage is, its up to you if you wanna branch out

[normal junco]

its an adventure from Curse of Strahd.

[knotty pasture]

Cuz you can be faithful to whatever's on the book only and still reach level 20

[undone fable]

Really? hm... interesting...

[crimson gulch]

yeah, im running tyrrany of dragons, and so far its been 3 adventures from the new setting guide in a trench coat before i actually start the plot of that campaign

[knotty pasture]

I wanna try out Tyranny of Dragons one of those days, that and Descent into Avernus

[normal junco]

i'd suggest not including Death House multiple times. but you can have a passage go to the dungeon from White Plume Mountain. another go off to the dungeon from barrier peaks. a level down, another passage can go to the Temple of Elemental Evil. or some dungeon of your own design.

[knotty pasture]

But there's a prequel oneshot that I'd like to try DMing first

[undone fable]

Ooooh. I wanna build the ultimate mega-dungeon!

[knotty pasture]

Have fun, but keep in mind to not your expectations run too high cuz you have to take into account the people that wanna play and/or sit through the entire thing

[normal junco]

i don't think its on the webpage anymore, but there was a whole series of encounters set up into a campaign.

multiple campaigns, actually

[undone fable]

really? wait... was? noooooo.

[minor lake]

i've heard death house is a slog

[normal junco]

i've heard that too. some people substitute House of Lament from Van Richten's

[undone fable]

Would it be great if I made the big bad a franken-bbeg?

[raw ocean]

Like hybrid monster?

[normal junco]

check on the forums for encounter of the week: road to Baldur's Gate

[raw ocean]

My DM threw a solar/lich forced hybrid at us that was pretty strong

[undone fable]

Yes. Also a bit of... a boss rush if you have played video games.

[raw ocean]

BBEG that's really weak but it has 30 phases

That would be such a troll move

[undone fable]

Sorta like that yeah lol

[raw ocean]

That would be pretty funny, if you really wanna rub it in, have it teleport away whenever they get through a phase

[normal junco]

i used Transformers Titans Return Titan class Trypticon as the final battle in a one shot. that thing is like a 2 foot tall mecha-terrasque. it borders on terrain when compared to minis

[raw ocean]

DM tells you that it's going to be an easy session and you see a tarrasque sculpture behind his DM blind and he's listening to different types of boss songs.

[normal junco]

oh wow. nice. encounter of the week still exists on the DnDBeyond site. no updates since 2021, but they're still there.

[harsh hinge]

Like he was the terrain or he was the boss?

[normal junco]

a bit of both. PCs were climbing on him to attack and stuff. his corpse became terrain they had to enter for the finale of the one-shot.

[harsh hinge]

That is sincerely awesome. I don't have anything like the Titans in my collection, but I'll have to see if I can repurpose something if I ever get an in-person game going.

[woven flint]

My Cavalier Fighter lost his childhood horse today... :<

Rest In Peace, Slow Dancer 😔

[undone fable]

ooooof

[woven flint]

My heart weeps

[hexed hornet]

Idk what to say but I made my character a cat

[surreal nimbus]

Have one Brazilian here?

[undone fable]

Brazilian? as in brazilian dnd?

[humble cairn]

Pour one out for a fallen hero! 🍺

[surreal nimbus]

Not like a Brazilian person to teach me how to play.

[woven flint]

My Fighter Is torn up, he was screaming, he pretty much grew up with that horse

It fell off a bridge that was too narrow into lava, they were trying to escape a demon

[undone fable]

is brazilian portuguese your first language? im asking because im learning how to dm myself

and im learning portuguese

[humble cairn]

Remember that according to the rules, messages in this server have to be kept in English. The mod staff unfortunately cannot moderate in other languages.

[undone fable]

I was not planning to talk in portuguese btw. English is my native language

[ivory shale]

Sup guys

[undone fable]

hows dnd?

[ivory shale]

I have a hot take

[ivory shale]

Me?

[undone fable]

ye

[undone fable]

whats the hot take

[ivory shale]

"Your DM is wrong, but he is the DM so technically in his game he can be right."

Hot take: dm can't be wrong because it's their game is a backwards mentality

[ivory shale]

It's alright i guess. My pc nearly died. Playing in a living world campaign and it's really fun

[surreal nimbus]

Yes

[humble cairn]

Not super hot. Games being collaborative and the DM being just one of the players, albeit the player who takes the position of referee, has been around for awhile now. "DM is God and cannot be questioned" is considered old fashioned.

[ivory shale]

Maybe hot on reddit i guess

[fossil hollow]

I mean. Rule 0 is that DM has final say

[humble cairn]

I feel this is generally meant for in-session rulings and not just blanket

[fossil hollow]

the rules are more guidelines than hard rules

[humble cairn]

One should not argue with a DM ruling in session because it is the DM's role to make sure the game flow is not disrupted, but outside of session the DM really shouldn't be just overruling player's feelings and wishes.

[fossil hollow]

and also brew and house rules

[ivory shale]

Another hot take incoming, rule 0 without limits to what the dm can do is doo doo

[fossil hollow]

i mean, at that point, if your DM is abusing that rule, just leave the game

DnD is a social game. Theres a social contract

No DnD is better than bad DnD

[undone fable]

Socializing is great so thats why i play dnd

[fossil hollow]

i feel if they abuse it that would go against the "Good Faith" section that follows it too

soooo

[humble cairn]

Arguing with the Referee during session is bad player behavior, but outside of a session a DM really should be listening to players. Hopefully before they get fed up and leave.

[fossil hollow]

Having rules to tell people to not be an ass is...

[humble cairn]

Necessary, unfortunately

[keen cave]

I have a homebrew subclass I’ve been meaning to run by some people for a while now

[fossil hollow]

.. yknow what, in this day and age, that is so true

[old sluice]

Asses get a bad rep. They're nice animals. We should stop using them as an insult.

[fossil hollow]

that is also true, donkeys are great

[keen cave]

It’s called plaguebearer and it essentially makes use of AOE damage, Causing damage over time etc

[fossil hollow]

#homebrew

[ivory shale]

I mean if the solution is to leave a ' bad dm' because theyre doing bad things is no different than saying ' DMs are supposed to have limits too. "

Btw didn't have enough sleep so i might be feeling really funky

[keen cave]

Oh, Forgot that channel existed, Thanks!

[fossil hollow]

thats why you get on the same page with a DM.

[old sluice]

Sometimes even a good DM might break things too much for your tastes

[fossil hollow]

Like, I probably wont vibe too much in a Mercer game

[ivory shale]

I mean it's technically homebrew but outright saying

" concentration doesnt exist in 5e" is just wrong

[old sluice]

A Mercer game maybe. But with Mercer's players? No thank you

[fossil hollow]

ok, thats just a wild take

[ivory shale]

Glad you agree

[fickle heart]

I feel like this largely just comes down to aligning expectations.

[ivory shale]

Saying you want to take out something from a system because you dont like it is way different than saying it outright doesnt exist.

[fossil hollow]

-# also, nice gigi murin pfp

[ivory shale]

boat goes binted

[fossil hollow]

dammit she says too things that break server rules

[ivory shale]

Wow how to get animated profile like that?

[fossil hollow]

needs Nitro

dice is seperate purchase

[ivory shale]

The pain of being broke

[fickle heart]

Like, systems exist that give players more authorial control, but I have to say that I don't have a ton of faith in the "average" 5e player being very good with that shared control.

[ivory shale]

Shared controls? Like games that allows players to make headcannons?

[fickle heart]

And even directly influence events in the game as a group, yes (outside of character purview).

[ivory shale]

What is such games? I forfot but theres a few

Like the one where you play as grandmas

[fickle heart]

5e is the popular TTRPG, though, meaning that it's a lot of people's introduction and a lot of the mindsets that would help people play said other games don't get cultivated.

[ivory shale]

Yours too

[ivory shale]

True but doesnt mean it the best.

Its like Maccas tho. Easy to get, still actually tasty.

[fickle heart]

Absolutely, yeah.

[humble cairn]

FATE is one where players all get a resource that they can use to control the plot.

[fickle heart]

I really wanna try 13th Age based on what I've heard about it, but I don't know anyone who'd be willing to try it

[ivory shale]

Havent read about that system

But am planning to run dcc

[ivory shale]

Like my main gripe about 5e is the hiding rules.

Been awhile since i read the rules but iirc its confusing?

[fossil hollow]

convoluted, but effectively works the same way

[ivory shale]

Uh.. Same as? You mean between 2014 and 2024?

[fossil hollow]

yeah

[robust moss]

Hey so I got a question. I’ve been dming a session for about seven months now and my group has been having some problems with a specific player because of how they’ve been playing their character anytime any player has ever gotten any kind of item or quest item this player has stolen it from them because they wanted it and didn’t want the other player to have it or Will completely ruin an encounter just to benefit themselves or because they were bored they would also not investigate problems properly or work with the rest of the party. They would do everything solo and then just put two and two together and come up with a conclusion that this person is a bad guy because of XYZ etc and just kill them they Will completely ruin an encounter just to benefit themselves or because they were bored (example I had a idea for a honey farm for my players’s village and the way I introduced it was through beehives and creatures that can cultivate the bees and create honey to sell one of the players was totally down to get them into the village and do all this and this player wanted nothing with it because he assumed that these creatures that they were hiring were murderers without any real evidence so he just tried to kill them and ruined the other players fun to the point where that player actually teared up) tells everyone they’re not playing their roles right when they’re a fighter trying learn magic and become an op spell caster without multi classing. when it’s their turn and me as the dm genuinely ask them a question about their role or if I try correct them on a roll, they would get defensive and tell me I’m wrong. this game very very loosely uses fifth edition rules and this player is mad that I’m not extremely strict about the rules then when confronted by the party this player went into complete denial and everyone else in the party was wrong except them so was I wrong for kicking them out of the group?

[fickle heart]

No. Honestly, they should have probably been booted long ago.

[fossil hollow]

read through first sentence, just kick them out

no other explanation needed

reading through the rest of it, they should have been kicked out a long time ago yeah

[glass granite]

Da boot 🥾

[past blaze]

that is a genuine nightmare of a player

[glass granite]

That’s a horror story right there

[minor lake]

yeah this sounds like deliberate trolling which is just not fun for anybody

like i would say you could give them more consequences but it seems like they just want to do their own thing so like would they even care

you are fully within your rights as dm to police them and just say "no"

[past blaze]

genuinely, someone who steals from everyone else, and actively sabotages everyone else in combat... at that point I just wonder how the other characters wouldn't have just decided to fight back at some point
and "it's what my character would do" is a completely insubstantial attempt of an excuse given they made the character and are playing as them

[minor lake]

right like that's just not fun

and bad improv lol

"i pull out a gun and shoot my scene partner"
'cool, now the scene is over.'

[old sluice]

The proper answer to "This is what my character would do" is "Well my character would kill yours then"

You don't get to play your character uncompromisingly and expect others not to do the same.

[minor lake]

yeah i dont think u were out of line at all at some point it stops being roleplay and becomes sabotaging the game and affecting everyone's actual time hanging out

[old sluice]

Problem players thrive on inequality. Their fun hinges on other people refusing to act the same way they do

[minor lake]

are the other players pissed? i would assume they would be

kick them out for the good of the table

sorry bro take an improv class

he turned dnd into a bullying simulator

[thorny hamlet]

hi new here wsp

[minor lake]

hi mr micker

[thorny hamlet]

this is cool

imma explore a bit

[grand lagoon]

Hello everyone

[minor lake]

hello dr j

[grand lagoon]

Question to anyone. What are your guys favorite class?

[minor lake]

nice pfp and name
dr j is my favorite basketball player

[glass granite]

MONK

[fallen thicket]

Expel the Player from the table
Create a plausible scenario using the character, where he would be expelled by the other players
Make him develop a vengeful compulsion towards the Players for having been expelled.
Transform him into some kind of enemy or secondary antagonist NPC who could use a gimmick based on greed or the use of multiple magic items

[minor lake]

i like ranger
gloomstalker & beastmaster for life

[grand lagoon]

You clearly know your NBA players lol

[fallen thicket]

Barbarian and Paladin. I like to hit things hard.

[minor lake]

he's great dude love up close basketball

i like giannis for similar reasons

[grand lagoon]

Yess

I want to try wizard, I feel like I could do some crazy work with them

[ivory shale]

Question, why are you afraid of kicking this player out?

[grand lagoon]

We definitely need to run a session lol. We always need someone with the muscle lol

[thorny hamlet]

woah im sry if im intruding but where do i find people wanting to make a session?

ive barely been through all the channels yet but i read in 1 that i can do 1 shots?

[fallen thicket]

I'm flattered, but there's a small problem that would prevent me from doing so. I don't speak English very well; all 26 letters sound different in my native language.

[thorny hamlet]

sounded cool would like to trying D&D got invited from someone i know

[minor lake]

try #find-a-game or #looking-for-players

[thorny hamlet]

thanks a lot

[minor lake]

there's others as well

[thorny hamlet]

okay 👍 thanks so much

[robust moss]

I’ve wanted to for a while. I never liked this player’s personality or how they treat other people, but the other players in the group were really good friends with this person still so I felt bad taking one of their friends out of the group if they didn’t want them to go but last night was definitely the turning point for the party with how aggressive this player was when confronted so we have officially come to the conclusion of they will no longer be playing with us

[fallen thicket]

I really like the Barbarians, but I have a slight problem with the friction they create with optimization and roleplaying. If that awful Unarmed Defense didn't depend on Dexterity, it would be a paradise.

[ivory shale]

Figures, most of the time people dont want to kick out problem players because theyre friends

[thorny hamlet]

youch goodluck though

[coral kiln]

my buddy made his first character today and Its an Orc Warlock named Ore lol

the stat spread is kinda funny but hes new and i think its creative

[ivory shale]

I think that's perfectly fine

Btw you guys know a server for rpg in general?

It seems theres none

[coral kiln]

i didnt know that lol

i wasnt sayin it like it was a bad thing tho i js think its a funny character

[coarse ravine]

Agreed the "it's what my character would do" the party turning on him would be definitely what their character would do lol. But yeah pvp never a good sign but In character yeah those pcs wouldn't have allowed that long term.

[umbral girder]

Likely is way too broad of a concept to make a server over

[coral kiln]

nah fr its an Orc with 8 strength and 12 int

[lethal cobalt]

my friend was complaining why the hp per new class level was in a different page than the actual class page.

any idea why they did this on the new PHB?

[umbral girder]

Because chapter 2 gives you the step by step process of how to do it first before you just immediantly into the classes.

That's my guess

Since Chapter 2 is the "Create a Character" chapter.

[lethal cobalt]

the starting HP yes but i can't explain why the next class level HP is there. you dont visit the character creation again if you level up. i just found it funny.
because my friend was flipping the book a lot of times. he said its hard to use in person.

[umbral girder]

Well except leveling up rules is also in Chapter 2

Plus it is just the average of the hit dice rounded up anyway.

[lethal cobalt]

Got it. I'll try to remember the average thingy. That's the only thing i need on that area. It's just annoying to flip through the book physically just for that one line. Kids don't respond well to memorizing numbers like that 😅

[umbral girder]

Yeah just half the maximum number of the dice plus 1.

So a d12 is 7
d10 is 6
d8 is 5
d6 is 4

[limber trail]

They do show the hit dice of each class on the class summary. There’s not a fixed HP per class because your HP might vary based on Con mod, tough, your species potentially, subclasses, and if you’re rolling for HP.

[umbral girder]

They gonna get annoyed with D&D for sure then.

[lethal cobalt]

Their table don't roll stats. They were taught to use the average from the 2014 PHB. They were complaining how this "one line" was in the 2014 but not on the new one.

[umbral girder]

"One line" when it was 12 lines

[lethal cobalt]

they just want this

Hit Points per additional Barbarian Level: D12 + your Con. modifier, or, 7 + your Con. modifier
kids complain. i was just trying to find a better answer why they did this

thanks for the feedback so far. I'll try to make them understand

[limber trail]

Ah right

[knotty pasture]

You can survive with 14 dex anyways, stacking con is more important in buffing Barb AC

Unarmored Defense is more of a mid/late game thing once your con exceeds 20 (even then it depends on whether the magical clothing gives better effects than magical medium armor)

[lusty spindle]

I got a question for the DM People here, would anyone be open for a campaign?

[umbral girder]

This is not the channel to ask about joining a game. That is for #find-a-game

[lusty spindle]

Ah, okay, thx

[old sluice]

So do you have any ideas for shenanigans involving Delayed Blast Fireball?

[crisp osprey]

if you know each other well and there are friendships then I would opt for having a meaningful conversation about desired style of the game and collab and keeping it one team vs. foes and if there is conflict within the group as role playing dictates it, unless it’s specified by the story, you prefer it balances. All hear it and all accept that or you don’t find it fun to DM to the group as whole. When that message is delivered they should sort it out themselves, and if they don’t then the final “i’m sorry but you’re out” is ok

everybody should have fun, including DM

[native slate]

HEY!!! DOES ANYONE KNOW ANY APPS FOR MOBILE TO RECORD DISCORD AUDIO FOR SESSIONS???

[coarse ravine]

Dm also isn't there to babysit

[rotund shell]

you don't need to use all caps.

[native slate]

So can you help me?

[radiant meadow]

i mean
phones usually record audio when taking videos
you could do that
or you could search up audio recorders into your favourite app store

[still plover]

WikiHow suggests Craig Bot.

[crisp osprey]

whole sessions are sometimes babysitting, come on.. we are all humans, if you play with strangers and no relationships then being black&white about everything is easier… but I believe part of the game is friendships and that should be driven by relationship and conversation…

[native slate]

I’m trying to record my dnd sessions and I’ve tried recording before but it doesn’t get the audio like at all

[radiant meadow]

hm
i think you gotta get a better mic then

if it's not picking up any audio

[native slate]

That’s not what I mean. I mean there is no audio.

[radiant meadow]

ahh

[native slate]

It’s not an issue with the recording not being able to hear us, it literally just doesn’t record the audio

I’ve tried using the screen recorder then I tried using a 3rd party app

[radiant meadow]

i looked up craig-bot
try that, it integrates directly with discord

so you shouldn't have any issues with audio

[native slate]

I’m gonna try that tomorrow once my dm is awake to give me access to server permissions

Thanks!!!

[radiant meadow]

np

[sharp robin]

Think the most common bad thing that happens to me in campaigns is my character having no synergy whatsoever with the rest of the cast

Maybe the campaign itself is actually fun and the DM is good but it's happened so many times that a cast won't click.

[snow agate]

Is it actually evil to animate the dead

[sharp robin]

This post was made by a myrkul follower

[snow agate]

Especially if the dead guy is an evil guy

Like they were probably already going to a terrible afterlife

[sharp robin]

Some fates are worse than death.

[snow agate]

Yeah like going to the lower planes

If anything I’d say it’s better to be a skeleton than turn into a dretch or something

[sharp robin]

Justifcating one's 'righteous' crimes is the first step towards a steady downfall.

[snow agate]

I didn’t say it was righteous I said I think it’s not really an evil act in of itself

[sharp robin]

The implications of being a necromancer are something I've never really thought intrinsically about though.

[humble cairn]

Thsi is why I like to have my players create their characters together at Session 0 and also ask that they put shared history into their backstories so they know each other before the game starts. They can then plan to have a team in both lore and in tactics.

[sharp robin]

Yeah that helps somewhat

I've genuinely been in parties where one of us coulda dropped dead and everyone's reaction woulda been: "They died? Oh no! Anyway."
For the whole campaign

[snow agate]

Those are rough

And usually don’t last long

[sharp robin]

Well, I mean moreso in character. All good people OOC

It's kind of just really....eh.

[snow agate]

I think that’s still rough and usually doesn’t last long

It’s a symptom of everyone making a character in a vacuum instead of collaboratively, so they end up pursuing their idea, and their idea is not made with the context of caring for the others ideas, because how could you? You made yours in a vacuum, just like they did

[cinder timber]

those are some cold blooded PCs ngl, but my PC would do the same

[sharp robin]

I tend to be ambitious when I make my characters and that's often not in line with what other people do. Roleplay being my favourite aspect of DND and all

[snow agate]

As in your character is ambitious or you have ambitious ideas for your character

[sharp robin]

Ambitious ideas for my character

[humble cairn]

As long as you're open to tweaking your character to fit with the party and the campaign, all should be fine.

[snow agate]

If you have a really “out there” Character, that can make it harder to be cohesive and form bonds

[cinder timber]

Me too. I always want my character to have done cool stuff in their past

[marble lion]

Im onboard with the tendency here but you can absolutely care after making your char alone

[snow agate]

It’s like if I (living in the U.S. as a college student) suddenly moved to china and tried to be friends with a soldier. We’re just from practically different backgrounds and have no reason to be close unless we have something like shared hobbies or principles or whatever

[cinder timber]

I find it difficult to justify in character

[snow agate]

It’s good to make characters collaboratively so you can prebake such stuff

[marble lion]

Not soldiers crying in each others arms after just meeting

[cinder timber]

brothers in arms

[snow agate]

Yeah it’s just not the same

[marble lion]

Empathy, ideals, values

You dont need a paired backstory to care
Thats ridiculous

[snow agate]

That isn’t what I said

[cinder timber]

it helps a little bit

[marble lion]

Its always a good thing to do but the way i read it youre saying if your char was made in a vacuum, they cant care about their party "because why would they?"

[snow agate]

The odds of you caring are lower

[marble lion]

Did i misunderstand that quote?

[marble lion]

Very true

[snow agate]

How many literal strangers do you befriend? Probably what, like 10%? Probably far less than that

[marble lion]

If i travel in an adventuring party, resting fighting and shopping together for at least a few days?

[cinder timber]

here is a question, how do you make your character stop seeing other PCs as coworkers and become closer?

[marble lion]

Because thats not really a stranger anymore

[snow agate]

Sometimes, sure, but sometimes it still doesn’t make sense. If I do a prison break scene with someone as a campaign intro, that might mean we’re friendly, but we could have entirely different life paths

[marble lion]

The reason this problem occurs is because of the players, not the backstory or char creation

[sharp robin]

Making empathic or altruistic characters, making characters in need of the help of others on desperate levels.

[snow agate]

If you make a character with literally any goals and you don’t collaborate you will have divergent interests

[marble lion]

But it can be tackled by doing the suggested

[cinder timber]

that last one sounds like a sad character

[sharp robin]

Yeah you're right on the money.

[marble lion]

And that really doesnt mean you dont care about the others

[cinder timber]

Not the character I like making tbh. I like characters that are broken and can walk alone.

[snow agate]

Yeah? I care about my sister. We don’t live together. We don’t adventure together. We have different goals

[marble lion]

Good

[snow agate]

We’re not a party

[sharp robin]

I LOVE playing broken people but like it or not, DND is a team effort.

[humble cairn]

#dnd-discussion message

[marble lion]

And theyre not siblings

[snow agate]

Yes, your party is your team

Your team needs good reason to be a team instead of separating when it’s convenient

[marble lion]

Absolutely

[cinder timber]

well, that doesn't really answer my question

[sharp robin]

Also separating is a DM's worst nightmare

[cinder timber]

I like broken people but not people that depend on others too much

[humble cairn]

The answer is you make them start out not being coworkers. Barring that, say "In the downtime between sessions we have coexisted with one another and become friends that trust one another" and then you just act like it.

[cinder timber]

Yeah, that is the inorganic solution, but it works

[sharp robin]

Could also just make an easy going and sociable character

Ex. Karlach

[glass granite]

Eh? Idk if I’d call it inorganic
Edit: HOLY what was that autocorrect

[humble cairn]

Changes in mindset in your character have to come about through a conscious and deliberate decision on your part as a player. There really isn't anything organic about any of it.

[cinder timber]

I mean, if you just say "poof" we are friends now, that seems lazy from my POV, idk

[lavish flame]

I've always had very long periods of just traveling where its assumed (or played out) that the party gets to know and like each other during the travel. My D&D games are like 50% road trips.

[snow agate]

I’ve had that and I’ve also had the inverse where party members still keep secrets about their basic motivations for like 3 ingame months

[glass granite]

Well, it depends on how the party met. Oftentimes, it could make sense for the party to know each other beforehand, or it being weird if they act like total strangers with each other.

[humble cairn]

Unless you're playign every second of every day in the life of your characters, there is stuff that happens between adventuring sessions, realistically you would be interacting. But since you're not playing every second of every day, you have to make up the stuff that comes in between.

[knotty pasture]

It'd be more effort for the DM otherwise to actually build up an organic relationship between adventurers that way

Cuz campaigns don't take interpersonal relationships between PCs into account

[cinder timber]

that's me!!!

[snow agate]

They should because it’s the main people you’ll see and interact with for the entire time

[knotty pasture]

So Occam's Razor it by just assuming that everyone's not complete strangers from the start

[humble cairn]

That's ... I recommend you stop doing that.

[glass granite]

Still confused why you do that btw. Like, you’ve known them for so long and you’re not even comfortable enough to tell them why you’re doing stuff?

[cinder timber]

I saw a DM online do the organic way, and it was super cool, ngl. The characters felt alive.

[lavish flame]

This is stuff I hate, that second bit. The point of a narrative secret is that it eventually gets revealed. Keeping a sealed lid abt your character is cool, but that lid should be openable sooner rather than later.

[humble cairn]

What does that even mean, though?

[glass granite]

Development can still be made between characters that knew each other beforehand too

[knotty pasture]

It'd probably work better in a video game with a fixed script but otherwise its a lot more effort you're demanding from the DM

[cinder timber]

Omega, no one else does it in my party

[coarse ravine]

What's your class?

[sharp robin]

Warlock

[humble cairn]

If you want your character to make friends with the party, you have to consciously choose to do it. Even if you're doing it in the spur of the moment, it's still a choice you, the player, are making.

[cinder timber]

they were strangers that met on a dirt road and became a team

[coarse ravine]

You are your own dps powerhouse. You can bring that big bad to 0 real quick. Just be you

[snow agate]

The only time I do otherwise if it’s just something i never expected to come up; like last session I got ganked by an organization I quit before the campaign start, but it was a peaceful departure and a sneaky getaway, so I thought it didn’t matter to give a lot of details about

[humble cairn]

And do you know if they had a Session 0 to plan out their relationship arcs a little? Did they share their character ideas with each other first?

[knotty pasture]

But how do they meet in the first place (I assume they don't just have a meet up spot in a dirt road), why partner with these guys in general

[lavish flame]

Especially if your adventure starts with the party all being from one location. Obviously something like Baldur's Gate is huge and nobody is friends with everybody, but like, if 1 player is a town guard and another is a baker, they've probably interacted a few times.

[glass granite]

Some people would argue that’s inorganic in the sense that randos don’t just meat and get along well enough to create a team that puts their life in each others hands

[snow agate]

Helps a TON if you’re from the same place

[cinder timber]

that's a good point

[sharp robin]

I once saw a cut and dry parody of Warlock thats like

"YES! Join me! Trade it out for immense power and...lifelong solitude!!!"
And I looked at it. And I kind of hated how right it was even as a stereotypical representation lmao

[knotty pasture]

Shar worshippers minus the power in a nutshell

[cinder timber]

I think it's organic considering the setting. No one survives alone type of stuff.

[coarse ravine]

Well... as a druid the destruction of forests in game... or a player attacking a animal you are trying to befriend would make it really hard to mesh with. I'm sure same is for a player digging up a grave in front of a cleric or paladin.

[humble cairn]

What happens in session can feel organic even if it's been planned by the players beforehand. I find that it feels more organic when everyone has a plan on how to make it work smoothly.

[sharp robin]

There is nothing. Only darkness

😭

[knotty pasture]

Death Clerics and Oathbreakers assemble!!!

Dig up every grave you can find to make your own army of funny bones

[humble cairn]

Which is why you create your group together, discuss your characters beforehand, and make characters that complement each other, bonus if you add backstory elements so they know each other before game starts.

[cinder timber]

I guess. I just like how the characters get close in fantasy literature and movies by adventuring. You kinda lose that magic.

[snow agate]

Yeah the reason soldiers can do it is because of alllllll the preparation and similarities and standards they had to meet and training they went through together and being from the same country and etc etc. they have a ton to bond over, especially compared to hostiles they’ve never met before. But if I see you at a tavern and you’re a broody rogue in a corner? Idk who you are or if you’ll stab me in my sleep

[humble cairn]

In my experience you do not. It is in fact more magical.

[cinder timber]

I'm not a good DM so I made it a requirement they know each other 😭

[humble cairn]

This is, in fact, a mark of a good DM.

[cinder timber]

I don't think so. But, I am new so I am making it easier for myself

[marble lion]

I think these are 2 different and alright styles

[humble cairn]

I disagree. I think this shows that you have put deliberate thought into the experience for the players.

[cinder timber]

I just know if four Zeniths were running around, each one is gonna go a seperate direction. So, I decided to do that.

[lavish flame]

Yeah but, idk. Heroes get thrown together and become close all the time, thats just a convention of the genre. Its inorganic to quickly befriend the other PCs if you're coming at it from the perspective of Yourself In Meatspace, but if you're thinking of The A-Team or the Justice League, then its entirely organic when they get thrown together and become good friends.

[coarse ravine]

My best dm I ever had made my Goliath and ally firbolg friend cousins... well suggested it at least. Fun times

[cinder timber]

but who knows, I can also be a bad player

[marble lion]

Lets investigate, gang

[glass granite]

Hence “arguably”
I myself am on the fence. Both can work, just not to their extremes

[cinder timber]

how?

[lavish flame]

cloning you a couple times

[marble lion]

Scoobydo joke cuz they always split up

[coarse ravine]

So... several ways to do this but one is easy mirror image?

[marble lion]

Wow ddk the doomsday killer

[cinder timber]

Who is your favorite scooby-doo character?

[marble lion]

Ive literally never seen it

So daphne

[vale sage]

I've never hurt anyone...

[coarse ravine]

100% scrappy

[lavish flame]

what classes would the scooby doo cast be?

[snow agate]

Something important to note is superheroes are rare and fighting world ending threats or city ending threats or etc

Level 2 characters are…uncommon… you can replace them with one you like more xD

Gary from the tavern is a strapping young lad

[humble cairn]

See s novel or a movie has an author and a director to make sure the story goes as planned. You have fallen in love with the mystique of that and don't realize that this kind of thing works better with conscious and deliberate directing.

[snow agate]

Has many maidens in his field

[cinder timber]

True, I can't really replicate that into dnd as I can't direct everything.

[humble cairn]

So you make all your players into co-directors.

[cinder timber]

So I tell them "get closer as the story progresses!"

[knotty pasture]

Or improv scenarios for them in the campaign to make them bond

[humble cairn]

Or even, "You are playing an erstwhile gang of misfits who have bonded through your shared history" right from the beginning.

[cinder timber]

Like what?

[lyric idol]

Plan two subplots that wrap into the main story. One where the party does something, one where they dont. Doesn't have to be major, small things that maybe cause an event to happen slightly differently depending on choice.

[knotty pasture]

Puzzles that require at least two people to solve, incorporate someone's personal event from their backstory and have the party resolve it somehow

[lyric idol]

I try to avoid forcing the party and railroading as I did it a bit when I was first learning to DM.

[humble cairn]

"Much has happened this day, blood has been shed, loyalties tested. As you make camp, you have a quiet moment to speak amongst yourselves as you begin to process the events that transpired."

[cinder timber]

I see.

[humble cairn]

Something as simple as having time to just roleplay along themselves.

[cinder timber]

Oh! I got a question! When do you start pulling backstories into the game?

[snow agate]

Session 1 since it’s how they got there

[noble basin]

Yeah i always like the end of day campfire time

[knotty pasture]

Could always just incorporate them in a campaign, you don't need to do the whole thing, bits and snippets over time will do

[humble cairn]

Me? I create the campaign from back story hooks.

[snow agate]

I would also ask your players if they want it to come up

[cinder timber]

You sound like Nintendo's gaming philosophy

[lyric idol]

No nintendos gaming philosophy is copy paste

[snow agate]

Sometimes the point of having a happy family backstory is I don’t want it to come up ingame so dm pls don’t kill them >_>

[cinder timber]

Well, yes, but when they make a new iteration of a game, usually form follows function.

[glass granite]

Whenever the characters interact with the world in a way that it could logically come up

[lyric idol]

Oh? A normal family that has normal issues? Sounds like its time for a hostage situation subplot.

[glass granite]

We also can’t forget the classic trolley problem
Save your family or this burning village : D

[snow agate]

“Next time I’m gonna be an orphan like everyone else so you can’t do this anymore”

[lyric idol]

It also helps to rotate characters' backstories a bit and let them intertwine in certain missions and stories.

[snow agate]

Do both

[lyric idol]

"It's not my fault the paladin failed their stealth check."

[glass granite]

“You can certainly try”

[cinder timber]

I see. I will try to integrate it.

[snow agate]

I’ll save the village, the family is cheaper to raise dead

[knotty pasture]

Speaking of backstories, here I am trying to incorporate one of my character's backstories

This character worked for the Zhentarim for a time briefly, but stuck to not illegal things for the most part

But its still the Zhentarim

[glass granite]

Sure! Very well.
When you stumble into your home, you find the remains of your family missing, only blood and signs of a pointless struggle behind.
-# good luck raising them now

[snow agate]

Are you trying to make me go oathbreaker dm

[glass granite]

Mayhaps

[old sluice]

True resurrection would work

[glass granite]

If you have true resurrection there ain’t much I can do
9th level spells are a breed that I am not about to deal with

[lyric idol]

Maybe they have a few connections within the Zhentarim, and a few enemies too. Their character has a cowards reputation around the Zhentarim for only picking the clean jobs. But on the bright side they are in the good side of the law enforcement precisely because of that reputation.

[radiant meadow]

anyone have some decent resources/suggestions for creating oneshots? I've never ran one beofre and I'm not sure how much free-roam I should put it.

(in this case, I'm debating if I should have multiple locations for the party to investigate, or if I should just drop them off at a location of my choosing)
I like to add as much freedom as possible, but from the nature of a one-shot a time restriction makes it weird.

[knotty pasture]

Will take note

[rough basalt]

My approach is 5 encounters

[lyric idol]

Make it so there is a goal to end up somewhere but add multiple routes to get there. Make some safer but longer, some shorter but more dangerous.

[still plover]

Five Room Dungeon.

Situation, location, opposition, complication.

[lyric idol]

I love that actually.

[radiant meadow]

currently i have
(starting location)
(investigate docks,warehouse,meeting based on 3 hints for each of those in location 1)
and then 3 ways in each of those location w/ 3 ways to find them to locate location 3)
go from location 3 into oneshot-boss at location 4

this is a more clear layout:

1. PC's meet [[oIvy]] at her guild, looking for work. Ivy informs them of Zheltret Diamondfoot.
2. PC's investigate Zheltret
   1. begin investigation
      1. investigate | [[oDocks]]
      2. investigate | oWarehouse
      3. investigate | oMeeting
   2. locate Zheltret
      1. Docks:
         1. interrogate npc's
         2. investigate shipping report
         3. cause a disturbance
      2. Warehouse:
         1. interrogate npc's
         2. investigate invoice
         3. cause a disturbance
      3. Meeting:
         1. interrogate npc's
         2. investigate meeting notes
         3. cause a disturbance
3. confront Zheltret
4. return to Ivy

I'm just unsure if this is too much too little etc

(sorry for text wall)

[lyric idol]

Add background reasons for some characters to go one place, others for another. That encourages them to want to go to those places but discuss the order in which they go, which allows you to plan for random encounters or specific events you want to happen while they evenly discuss the options.

[vale sage]

Hey guys how exactly does Paladin work? Do people just take an oath and power swarm them or they must be chosen by a god? Since I don't see any god choice for a paladin for BG3

[glass granite]

Just gotta make an oath, no god necessary

[humble cairn]

You gain power from your own conviction. No good necessary.

[radiant meadow]

I wasn't sure if I wanted them to go to all 3 of the warehouse docks and meeting
I figured i'd make them all seperate ways to get to the boss kinda

[rotund shell]

Paladins will their power into existance by faith and conviction beyond normal mortal ken. They may be dedicated to a god, but they don't have to be.

[still plover]

1. I'd roll that into the intro. "You met Olvy at the guild and she put you on a job. You need to (goal). She suggested starting at (location) and here you stand. What do you do?"

[lavish flame]

yo highkey is it cool if i grab this formatting for some prep of my own, this is pretty solid

[vale sage]

It's that easy? Why doesn't everyone just take it then if it sounds like a free power up 🤔

[lyric idol]

They can take an oath to a way of life, a deity, a magical creature, or to an artifact. If they break thay oath they obviously become oathbreaker.

[glass granite]

Because dedicating yourself to a lifetime of servitude to a cause that requires immense will and conviction is no easy feat

[still plover]

It's not easy or everyone would do it: #dnd-discussion message

[vale sage]

I see, that sounds fair. Thanks everyone for answering my answer

[rotund shell]

that's why I said faith and conviction beyond mortal ken. Paladins are paragons. The epitome of their oath.

[reef tundra]

It is a faith and dedication so powerful, they literally gain magic and the ability to smite from it, it’s something special

[lyric idol]

You think its easy to follow an oath of, say, "Do not kill" in a world where everyone and everything is either trying to shank you, or shank you with extra steps?

[rotund shell]

This is why Paladins often have a reputation of having sticks up their... ahem. because they must be so convinced their path is the correct path to maintain their powers.

[reef tundra]

If you want vengeance and you’re not an oath of vengeance paladin, your dedication will not be near the dedication of an oath of vengeance paladin

As an example

[rotund shell]

That's why I like my lawful good Oath of Conquest Paladin. "YOU WILL COME TO FEAR THE LAW, FOR YOU WILL FEAR ME. I... AM... the LAW"

[vale sage]

What about an Oath where it's literally just "Always Try to Live", sounds easy, no?

[glass granite]

That’s not an oath tho

[rotund shell]

but that won't get you conviction beyond mortal ken. You have to practically be a demigod of willpower to be a paladin, basically.

not literally, but you know. up there.

[still plover]

An aside: do you have some complications in mind? They help keep the action up.

[rotund shell]

It's a matter of sheer willpower, and most people don't have that kind of will.

[lyric idol]

Thats not an Oath. Thats just surviving and thatd be called "what you thought was divine magic was actually nature magic. Congrats youre a ranger."

[humble cairn]

An Oath that's easy isn't an oath that requires the conviction to make a Paladin.

[vale sage]

Paladin is more interesting than I thought, I think I'll try Paladin when I have a chance. A character with unrivaled willpower sounds far more cooler than I thought somebody just taking a free power up 🤷

[rotund shell]

I like to compare Paladins to shonen anime protagonists. "I have the unrivalled willpower to have both the power of the GODS and my arm with me!" (or in other words "I have the power of God AND anime on my side!")

[coarse ravine]

I mean... see the light in others is easy

[lyric idol]

The most unique of the Paladin oaths is Oath of the Oathbreaker. Where you said "erhm screw you Ima do things my way" and instead of losing your magic altogether you twisted your oath, and ruined the original magic.

[turbid vessel]

You could certainly play a paladin like that. Just like you could play a fighter that's good at fighting just for the sake of it. Or a monk who just is a lil athletic. Or a warlock who's relationship with their patron isnt even a secondary detail, or- well, you get the point

[reef tundra]

Paladin is peak

[coarse ravine]

Oath of ancients for the w!

[turbid vessel]

You get the most out of DnD (and tabletop games in general) when you buy into the fantasy and camp

[coarse ravine]

• the art

[reef tundra]

My first two dnd characters ever were both paladins, and they’re as different as can be

[coarse ravine]

Of what these creatures and lore looks like.

[reef tundra]

They’re both killing machines though

[vale sage]

I think I just got a revelation. Thanks 😊

[coarse ravine]

Went as high as 15 with oath of Aincients.

[reef tundra]

Level 15? Noice

[coarse ravine]

Westmarch tho so it wasn't personal at all

[knotty pasture]

Paladins are also quite flexible too, you can build them based on str, dex or cha

[humble cairn]

1. I bet I could make that challenging as your DM
2. that's only one of the tenets,a paladin has to embody all of the tenets of their Oath.

[coarse ravine]

Campaigns way better for personal stuff like paladin

[reef tundra]

I wanna reach level 20 as a vengeance paladin one day, I need them wings of darkness

[coarse ravine]

Hahaha be the light in others

I can't remember the other one.

[coarse ravine]

Oath of ancients is like a boss mode at level 20

[reef tundra]

I fear them

[coarse ravine]

I dmd for a conquest tho and they were a tank for sure

[rare scarab]

Hi I'm javi and I wanna learn how can I start like a wizard

[glass granite]

I have a Paladin BBEG actually

[reef tundra]

#dnd-newcomers are much better at teaching

[knotty pasture]

I just made a Paladin myself lol its fun

[reef tundra]

They are SO FUN, I love paladin villains

[rare scarab]

Al right thanks

[turbid vessel]

My favorite paladin I ever made was a Warforged Ancients paladin. He was designed by aberrant forces to be a dark killing machine, but his frame got lost in transit, and was found and activated by a druidic grove, who (with some growing pains) raised him to see the good in life, so much so that he became their champion
So now he's an intensely scary looking death warden who wears colorful green robes and likes to garden

[coarse ravine]

Oath of ancients im telling ya. That spell resistance js huge and their 20th level feature gets nutty. As a paladin casting your spells as a bonus action

[reef tundra]

Although the latest paladin I’ve had at my table was oath of redemption, but it was played awfully

[reef tundra]

Cuteee 😭

[humble cairn]

I played a Glory Paladin that was just so much fun. Thrown weapons build with a totally unlikable personality.

[pliant sapphire]

That Oath is hard to play

[glass granite]

I’m foreshadowing his Oath of Vengeance because in my world, it is customary to have a tattoo that can only be removed once vengeance is complete. The more vengeance needed, the more tattoos. And his entire body is filled with it.

The party’s favourite NPC is actually becoming a vengeance paladin rn (ironically against the forces of this BBEG), and William The Knight is getting his own tattoos.

[reef tundra]

I can imagine, but the player wasn’t even trying, his character was a hypocrite, downright evil, narcissistic and very difficult to work with. He didn’t even intend any of these traits

[glass granite]

Can’t wait to see if the party notices heheh

[reef tundra]

HEHEHAHAHAHA PERFECT
VENGEAAANCE

[glass granite]

Ok that’s sweet af

[coarse ravine]

Definitely get you some spellwraughts

[humble cairn]

That's annoying.

[turbid vessel]

I have a heroforge render of him, I'll throw it in #dnd-heroforge-etc

[pliant sapphire]

Totally a peace paladin, i see 🤣

[reef tundra]

Appointed himself judge, jury, and executioner

[glass granite]

Yup!

[knotty pasture]

Redemption is only hard if your party's actions lead to you oath breaking

[still plover]

Metal.

[knotty pasture]

Otherwise you can knock out anyone you see and have your party deliver the last hit

Or play like a negotiator that works too

[coarse ravine]

Well... I mean what's the one that sais you can't flee?

Like what if whole party sais yes let's bounce... you are supposed to stay behind ?

[lyric idol]

Maybe your redemption is standing up against the rogues' 1,914th scheme to rob another store owner blind.

[reef tundra]

“I want to negotiate to see if this battle is avoidable, I don’t want any more lives lost 🥺”
“The others want war, the only person we could negotiate with is Malika the witch”
“Oh I was paid to kill her, so no I’m just going to kill her 😤”

[humble cairn]

I don't think any Oath says that, exactly.

[knotty pasture]

Vengeance perhaps? But its a stretch even then

Destroying the enemy at any cost =/= never fleeing

[glass granite]

Well…I don’t think that’s exactly Peaceful or Innocent

[knotty pasture]

Its no killing which is the core part of Redemption iirc

[lyric idol]

Paladin. Oath of Riches. Follower of Plutus.

Gotta get that gold.

[humble cairn]

Either way, playing a Paladin and taking your Oath seriously usually entails taking to your group about it.

[knotty pasture]

Complain to your group as a formality about their weird actions but never pushing the issue

[lyric idol]

Ngl a Paladin with the oath of Conquest, who's divine power comes from sacrificing gold and gems to a deity would be interesting and explain why your character is level 3 but basically broke at the beginning.

[humble cairn]

I mean talking to the group before play to clear it to with them about Oath vs party interactions.

[knotty pasture]

Paladins don't have to serve a god nor are offerings necessary

[humble cairn]

Oath of the Crown Paladin pledged to the Zhentarim way. Done.

[still plover]

Character creation in Session Zero.

[lyric idol]

No but they can and thats why Paladins are so flavorful.

[still plover]

Disagree. Anyone can have faith and/ or serve a god.

The spark of the paladin is the oath.

[knotty pasture]

Oh yeah they definitely can, but its no different from most other classes in that regard

[coarse ravine]

Yess that one

[knotty pasture]

My Dwarf Barb prays to Moradin and does church service as a minor backstory detail

[lyric idol]

Noting this. This would make a fantastic NPC that swaps sides constantly.

[knotty pasture]

Its not swapping sides per se either in that situation

[coarse ravine]

Idk theirs one that sais sometjin in particular in tryna find it

[knotty pasture]

Crown means obeying the law to a T, it doesn't have to be good laws

[snow agate]

I played a dwarf cleric once who sacrificed gems to his god (by putting them in fancy shrines or making shrines) and in exchange the god would give blessings or bless areas

Literal pay to win experience

[lyric idol]

Fantastic. I'd love to use that idea for an NPC that fights for and with the party, swapping sides on each time they encounter each other based on who is paying for the service. Then at the end, the BBEG pays that NPC an insane sum of gold and gems, which allows the NPC to access artifact level power temporarily. As the fight goes the more gold is consumed from the pile behind him. The quicker the party kills the NPC the more gold/gems and magic items they get in return.

[snow agate]

Actually the reason was the dwarf god of life needed gems because dwarf heaven was magic crystal caves and the souls are made in crystals

[still plover]

It's a thought! Could do with some working, given the DMPC feel. There's also the question of what happens of the party just scoop up the loot with a bag of holding and leg it.

[coarse ravine]

Strength Above All. You shall rule until a stronger one arises. Then you must grow mightier and meet the challenge, or fall to your own ruin.

Wasn't this but one could argue^^

[fiery lion]

is their a channel where i can post art/model work?

[lavish flame]

#dnd-arts-and-crafts and #dnd-minis gotchu covered

[fiery lion]

thanks

[knotty pasture]

I guess what that meant was that if you met someone stronger, you have to train just as hard yourself if not harder

Else the only thing awaiting you is death and shame

Aka don't be complacent and slack off

[remote wadi]

Would be funny to make correlations to other things

I unfortunately can't say which because despite being relatively tame, is blocking me from saying it

[proper ermine]

I have a habit of rushing stuff as a dm, and i dont know how to fix it
Any suggesstions?

[humble cairn]

How do you know you're rushing things, first of all?

[proper ermine]

my players telling me

and ive been missing out big details

[humble cairn]

Ah, good feedback! Okay so try to learn the art of reading the room, then. If the players are having fun and still trying to do things, let it happen. Pay attention to how they are feeling and how they are responding. Move on to the next thing when the energy of the room as dropped or stalled, but not before then.

[proper ermine]

got it. Thank you very much : )

[coarse ravine]

Maybe focus on detail more of the environment? What do they say exactly?

[proper ermine]

they say im rushing though stuff, which i very much agree with

[cinder timber]

I do have a question about that. Say they are RPing and just chatting, should you always until the energy lowers or move onto the next thing before then?

[humble cairn]

If everyone is involved I say let it happen unless you really wanted to get to a certain scene, then try and gently break in when you can. If only two people are chatting and the rest of the party is just waiting or making bored or restless noises, break in and fade to black.

[cinder timber]

I see. I will try that. I like interuptting randomly to make it feel like the world is unpredictable.

[humble cairn]

I mean if they are in a crowded public place and you want to interject with a random event that adds flavor and increases ambiance of your setting that's a good thing.

On the other hand if they are in a safe and secluded place then maybe don't just throw random events in.

[cinder timber]

Oh ok, they were an inn chatting, and I would interject briefly with "you see other patrons walk into the inn." Should I not do that?

[rough basalt]

yes and no

[humble cairn]

That sounds fine? I wasn't there so it's hard to say.

[still plover]

Everyone has their own wants out of a game. Some like story, some like wargaming, some like to chat. Give them a bit of time to do the parts that they enjoy before pushing the scene on.

[rough basalt]

sometimes it can be the right idea to try and end idle rp

[cinder timber]

It wasn't to end it. Just to make the scene not seem like it's in a stasis.

Like when there is a quiet moment, I just describe what some other NPCS are doing briefly.

[humble cairn]

Yeah that seems fine, bonus points if you somehow highlight the specific culture and flavor of the town they find themselves in.

[still plover]

As long as they're engaging with with each other the background is just background.

[cinder timber]

Good tip!

[humble cairn]

Or if you drop hints and foreshadowing to future plot.

Everything in service to the story and the ambiance of the environment, nothing should be useless.

[cinder timber]

I'm not that skilled yet, but I will try it. I'm trying to improve my description.

[cinder timber]

Yeah, I only narrate if it serves the story or describes the environment.

[hollow surge]

So…can we all agree that 5.5e completely ruins the four elements monk?

[still plover]

Haven't seen it. What's your case?

[rough basalt]

Completely disagree. 2014 elements was horrendous

[hollow surge]

Mostly it completely inhibits the narrative aspect that it used to have, now it basically works like a open hand monk with a little extra cantrips

[glass granite]

No, we may not agree so

[rough basalt]

the narrative aspect that made it horrendous

[still plover]

What about the current version do you feel is ruinous? Assume I don't know monks.

[rough basalt]

2014 thought flavor over function was a good idea and they almost completely abandoned it by Xanathars cause it wasnt

[humble cairn]

Not at all? I regard it as the most improved subclass in the change.

[glass granite]

I don’t even regard them as the same subclass tbh

[rough basalt]

It and Berserker were essentially saved

[jovial badger]

yeah you fs chronically online

[hollow surge]

I feel like the subclass has been reduced to an almost regular monk, 2014 version used to be able to make a wall of fire, or shape the flowing river which felt so fun to actually use elements to drive the story

[glass granite]

Oi what do you mean by that

[jovial badger]

every time i hop on youre here

[rough basalt]

And you couldnt actually do that most of the time

[still plover]

Rule check: did 2014 have such features?

[rough basalt]

and once you did you were effectively useless cause you were already out of ki

[rough basalt]

not really i think the most you get is fireball

[humble cairn]

Monks are great, and making the subclass actually play like a monk is also great, and you still get all the elemental flavor you want.

[rough basalt]

nah wait you get cone of cold at 17

[hollow surge]

Yeah but I feel like it’s important to make the subclass actually feel like different paths of a certain class, its way makes them each to fun to play and unique

[rough basalt]

and it costed 6 points

[hollow surge]

I definitely feel like the spells you got a certain levels definitely needed a change and the amount of ki you use definitely needed a change

[humble cairn]

Sure and I think it does feel unique and fun. Suffice it to say, disagreed. You can feel however you want, of course.

[rough basalt]

You wont really find many people who agree

That the flavor was robbed a bit sure, but most people who would agree with you just hate 2024 as a whole

[hot gate]

It's great fun, yeah. It also feels a lot more competent now.

[glass granite]

Also last I checked, open hand monks couldn’t explode in an elemental burst, fly, punch from 15 ft away, punch with elemental might or have anywhere near similar flavour

[rough basalt]

yeah they just knock people around

and hit very very hard later on for a decent cost

[glass granite]

Like don’t get me wrong I also love open hand
I just love all monks

[hollow surge]

It just doesn’t feel any fun when one of the only moves you have for a while is “you can hit…but with different elements” it doesn’t really change anything about it. Might as well be an open hand monk?

[rough basalt]

Open hand is cc

[hot gate]

Open hand doesn't get me 15 foot reach, so no I don't think I might was well be.

[rough basalt]

elements is elemental damage, and can fly, and has more reach

and has an aoe the size of a fireball that they can choose the damage type of

that in itself is massive

[glass granite]

That’s just the playstyle of a monk tho

“You punch, except this” is like, every monk. It’s kinda part of its identity

[hot gate]

The reach together with the monks generally very high movement speed means that you can just run circles around most enemies. It's quite fun.

[knotty pasture]

What is a Rogue if not just stabbing with different things and in different manners

[rough basalt]

cause fireballs one weakness is that fire resistance and immunity is one of the more common of the elemental types
course theres a feat for res but not for immunity

[glass granite]

Their mobility and reach (as well as their flavour) is why they’re my fav subclass

[knotty pasture]

Same with Monks on that front

[rough basalt]

and usually what resists fire or immune resists several other elements usually cold and lightning

so a 20ft radius thunder aoe that ignores all that

[hollow surge]

When you go from “ you can make a whip out of water” to “you can hit them, but your fist has water on it”. It’s kind of a whiplash of change.

[glass granite]

You can reflavour your elemental strikes as anything elements based, including whips of water

[hot gate]

If you look closely, the narrative could be exactly the same, yep.

[knotty pasture]

Idk if bg3 is spoiling me too much but sometimes I still find it hard to wrap my head around the fact that one could end a t3 campaign with just one piece of rare gear, 2 uncommon gear and the rest of the equipment just being normal

[rough basalt]

when you go from your fist has water on it and you can keep flurrying your punches from you can make a whip of water and need to rest an hour its a big change

[rough basalt]

spoiling

[knotty pasture]

Or hell, t1 campaigns ending with just common weaponry and maybe a +1 weapon

[rough basalt]

BG3s item system works way different

[knotty pasture]

Too differently really, imagine uncommon items once every 5 mins

[rough basalt]

Since its a video game

[hollow surge]

I just wanna be able to make a wall of stone and not just make some letters with dust

[rough basalt]

thats meant to be played alone or with friends

[hot gate]

Mhm, BG3 sort of breaks 5e over its knees and then assembles it back together in a way that works for video games.

It wouldn't work well if you brought that back to the table.

[rough basalt]

and everyone else wanted a competent functioning subclass

[knotty pasture]

Trivalizing encounters one step at a time

[inner silo]

Ngl correcting your character personality and mannerisms until you've played with them is pretty hard, and it's sometimes too late after you've played

[knotty pasture]

You have stuff like bg3 (lol) to kind of help out with that at least

[hollow surge]

So nobody gets what they want?

[knotty pasture]

I have a firmer grasp over what my character should be like after a full game

[rough basalt]

nah they got what they wanted

[inner silo]

I should buy it probably

[hollow surge]

Just feel like laziness tbh

[rough basalt]

Elements went from a clownfest to god

[humble cairn]

Current Elements monk works very well indeed.

[knotty pasture]

You should, only to experiment around with classes really if anything

[inner silo]

What's the best and worst dark and edgy subclass in 2024?

[humble cairn]

And 15ft reach grappling depicted as hands of stone or tentacles of water is great!

[knotty pasture]

If its 2014 I would have said Gloom Stalker as one of the best

[inner silo]

I see

[rough basalt]

2024 probably shadowmonk

[inner silo]

Best?

[rough basalt]

ye

[inner silo]

Interesting. But makes sense

[rough basalt]

Worst would be Assassin probably

[inner silo]

Poor assassin

[rough basalt]

Tho '24 doesnt really have any bad subs

Least not bad in comparison to '14's class power disparity

[inner silo]

That's great to hear

Btw do all classes have edgy subclasses?

[rough basalt]

Theres better and weaker ones but nothings outright useless or dysfunctional

If you count all official content yeah, id say so

[inner silo]

Then i think i know why artificers aren't a core class still

[knotty pasture]

Fighter definitely doesn't have edgy stuff

[inner silo]

Eldritch knight?

[rough basalt]

I'd say debatable

[knotty pasture]

The name's edgier than the actual class

[inner silo]

True

[knotty pasture]

Its just sword guy who can throw fireballs and what have you

[rough basalt]

It has some subs that could draw edgelord players

[jovial badger]

what abt sorc subs

[rough basalt]

But inherently edgy no I agree

[knotty pasture]

Shadow Sorcerers scream edgy lol

[rough basalt]

Ye Shadow sorc

I'd say for Druids, Spores or Wildfire

Could potentially be

Since Spores is the Necromancy sub, and wildfire is about burning things down to rebirth them

[inner silo]

Is it weird that clerics and paladins have some of the edgiest subclasses i think

[acoustic briar]

Am I wrong for feeling targeted if a campaign adds critical fumbles and I am playinga dual wielding fighter (2024 rules).

[lavish flame]

BG3 gives a lot more magic items than usual D&D, but this is a wild underestimation of a newly 17th level PC. You are pften juggling attunement slots at those levels.

[inner silo]

No not wrong

[rough basalt]

I'd say yes and no, but I also think crit fumbles are very dumb

They do specifically target martials more by nature

[inner silo]

They can make sense in skill checks imo but not in attacks

[knotty pasture]

You can only have 3 attunement/magical items at once right?

[rough basalt]

Usually

[lavish flame]

Yeah, Spellcasters just don't really do attack rolls, they usually produce saving throws. I've never liked critical fumbles for a variety of reasons. Is this being added to an ongoing game?

[rough basalt]

Artificer and Thief Rogue break that rule

[knotty pasture]

Me when you can have up to 12 magical items at once in bg3

[inner silo]

Is artificer in the official bg3?

[lavish flame]

Yeah, you can only normally attune to 3 magic items that require attunement. For magic items that don't, you can go hogwild.

[knotty pasture]

No you need a mod for it

[dapper cloud]

I do critical fumbles for some enemies and non-important skill checks, do not do them in combat though.

[inner silo]

Is the mod good?

[knotty pasture]

Decent but its definitely homebrewed

[acoustic briar]

I see.

[rough basalt]

Yeah pretty much all levels martials roll the most attack rolls

[knotty pasture]

At level 10 you can make poor man's versions of very rare magical items

[rough basalt]

Exception being level 3 and 4 in a niche case

Which that being the caster takes Scorching Ray

[knotty pasture]

Instead of Amulet of Greater Health (Fixed 23 con, advantage on con saving throws) the replica only has 20 con

[inner silo]

Well I'll take anything that's not booty trash

[knotty pasture]

You can also mass produce scrolls so have fun giving everyone like 10 counterspell scrolls to never be bothered by spellcasters again

[lavish flame]

I wish 2024's Artificer fixed my core issue with the class, but I still like it

[knotty pasture]

But their early-mid game is quite rough

[inner silo]

Oof

[knotty pasture]

Not that big of a deal that's why you have a team

[lavish flame]

Yeah, just let ur buds carry you for a lil bit. They can play the game by themselves and itd be fine

[knotty pasture]

Rogues are the one that got the short end of the stick

In a world where you can just quickload + up to 4 inspiration points + a bunch of utility stuff automated which invalidates the need for a skill expert

[inner silo]

Well, you can give everyone cool boots at least

[inner silo]

Thief is broken though no?

[jovial badger]

whats the fun with artificer? just seems like a worse bard

[knotty pasture]

No its just pretty nice but not broken, none of the Rogue subclasses are beyond excellent

Even Arcane Trickster's just kind of there

Rogue's role is to serve as the generic multiclass dip cuz they fit with a bunch of classes

[inner silo]

Bards can't give your allies a rock that can cast fireball 10 times

[glass granite]

Kaboomza

[lyric idol]

Flavor. Being able to make magic items for any occasion with a bit of foresight. Being a gunslinging mage. Being able to be fantasy iron man.

[knotty pasture]

Free gun at level 3 if you go artillerist is epic

[lyric idol]

I dont get why they refuse to make the gun last longer then an hour is beyond me though.

[inner silo]

My first artificer will definitely be a artillerist. Being able to summon a gun with two legs sounds really fire

[knotty pasture]

Homebrew it so it lasts until long rest

[lyric idol]

I allow that in my games. Why WOTC refuse make a fix to this is so dumb though. Its apparent. Its literally staring them in the face.

[knotty pasture]

Lots of stuff should last until long rest in general imo as a QOL thing

Shillelagh lasting until long rest would be really nice

[lyric idol]

They still wont allow Beastmaster's beast to have its own turn.

[lavish flame]

The fun is "I get to build magical tools to aid myself and my party". The joy of the class is feeling like you always have, or could always make, the right tool for the job, so much so that The Right Tool For The Job is the name of one of their class features.

Personally, it's presentation in 5e ('14 and '24) is lacking. I've never felt like I was actually building anything. I've always felt like I was doing online shopping for the items instead of turning materials+money+time into a magic item.

[inner silo]

Is battle smith the utility subclass or the melee fighting subclass?

[lyric idol]

Which is hilarious when we have battle mage. Its right there. Its the better beastmaster.

[glass granite]

A lil bit of both

[jovial badger]

i was thinking of making one but a blood hunter seemed cooler

[inner silo]

Can they wield a greatsword effectively?

[knotty pasture]

Battle Smith is the pet subclass, Armorer is the punchy one, Artillerist is the guns one, Alchemist is Alchemist

[lyric idol]

Both. It has really good utility and allows you to attack with your int stat instead of dex/str. And it gets a robotic pet.

[knotty pasture]

A greatsword would be a waste anyways cuz they aren't a finesse weapon

[lavish flame]

I don't think any artificer can wield a greatsword

[inner silo]

I see

[knotty pasture]

Nvm forgot about the attack based on int thing

[lavish flame]

Not without grabbing some Feats

[inner silo]

Alrighty

[glass granite]

Wait Hol up don’t battle smiths get martial prof

[rough basalt]

I feel like artificer is a class that can't fulfill what everyone wants of it due to the design of 5e

[knotty pasture]

Just like Ranger

[inner silo]

They do iirc

[glass granite]

So yeah they can use a great sword, why not. Shield is prolly better, but still

[rough basalt]

People want ya know. To be the magic item crafter and whatnot, but if you let a party just gather materials and craft magic items, things are gonna go wrong

I've seen this happen

[inner silo]

Only problems would probably be gwm feat and having to have 13 str though

[lyric idol]

The new dreadnought armor is the definition of cool. You get a mace/wrecking ball fist and can enlarge yourself for free to take on bigger creatures. Its essentially hulk buster.

[knotty pasture]

I just want to use big cannons or send off my AI pet to do bitey stuff 😔

[rough basalt]

Man, I'm starting to feel the way I do when my campaign starts to die.

[jovial badger]

which book?

[inner silo]

Or send off your ai pet big cannon to do flamethrowing stuff

[lyric idol]

Forge of the Artificer brand new.

[lavish flame]

Eberron: Forge of the Artificer

[jovial badger]

ty

[inner silo]

Though 15ft of movement isn't much of sending off but still

[knotty pasture]

Flamethrower's only really good in camping chokes

[lyric idol]

Seriously though that Dreadnought armor is a great addition. Now we have one for stealth, one for front line fighting, and one for bashing monsters usually too large for us.

[lavish flame]

Forge of the Artificer comes out in a week, but with a Master sub to DDB (and maybe preorders before a certain date? that book's release got messed up) you can access it early

[humble cairn]

Rogues are plenty fun all on their own.

[inner silo]

Well do cannon stuff then

[knotty pasture]

Bg3 really isn't kind to Rogues

[inner silo]

I've started playing as one rn and it's been pretty fun, being the edgy class

[knotty pasture]

Its fun to pass multiple dc20s in key events but that's kind of it

[humble cairn]

Which isn't relevant to conversation unless you're in #baldurs-gate-3-spoilers

[lyric idol]

Assassin is fine. Nothing special but hey. Take one down, pass it around, 99 enemies with action economy

[humble cairn]

It's ... not? .. the edgy class?

[knotty pasture]

The topic was about bg3 way up there and it stoppped until you brought it up again so...

[inner silo]

They're easier to make the edgy ones then other classes

[humble cairn]

Uhh me? This you? #dnd-discussion message

[lyric idol]

Blood hunter is the edgy class. Rogue is the utility class.

[jovial badger]

my dm has a master sub so all the books i have are through him. i might buy eberron: rising from the last war though because it looks SO cool

[inner silo]

Blood hunter is not cannon…yet

[humble cairn]

Not really. Unless you're just playing on stereotypes.

[lavish flame]

To some extent all of the classes got kinda shafted by BG3's design. I would have loved to need a Leomund's Tiny Hut to get safe Long Rests, but alas.

[rough basalt]

It won't be at all

[inner silo]

I see

[lyric idol]

Lets be real blood hunter is allowed at 99% of tables. Sure it hasnt made its way to WOTC material and probably wont tbh since its not their making originally.

[rough basalt]

It was a class made for a celebrity one shot to advertise a movie

[lavish flame]

I don't have the highest praise for BG3 tbh. An important game, sure. It just didn't hit the mark for me.

[glass granite]

Fey will start doing favours before blood hunters get canon

[humble cairn]

I do not find them to be allowed at table, ime.

[knotty pasture]

@humble cairn but this is from several minutes ago and was referring to bg3 until it ended a few messages later

[inner silo]

Just wait until Taldorei: Hunt of Vin Disel comes out

[rough basalt]

Yeah if someone asks me if they can play BH at my table I just laugh at them /hj

[lavish flame]

I don't allow them at my tables, this feels like a wild exaggeration

[flat steeple]

Never seen them allowed at a table myself. Then again, never seen someone wanting to play em

[lavish flame]

They somehow made a class thats stinkier than '14 Ranger

[lyric idol]

Maybe I'm just lucky? Idk I've played with one in the party. Never played as one. Sorcerer is my main, soon to be overtaken by artificer I imagine.

[glass granite]

I don’t allow them at mine, though that’s cuz I prefer to stick with official classes with my players, who are almost exclusively new

[lavish flame]

Additionally, the whole self harm thing is a minefield thats pretty baked into the class.

[inner silo]

What about dark shadow alchemist?

[glass granite]

Idk much about the class tbh, I just don’t think it’s a great class for new players to pick up as their first or second class

[lyric idol]

Thats fair. Tbh I've seen people try to play some RIDICULOUS classes. I saw someone wanna play some bs class called shadowlord or something? Where they get clones for free at level 1 lol.

[glass granite]

Yeahhhhh no

[inner silo]

Why not? It's balanced

[lavish flame]

Its shocking to me how often Bloodhunter gets brought up in conversation when Mercer's other 5e homebrew class, The Lingering Soul, literally never gets spoken of.

[glass granite]

Don’t need to read it. It’s not.

[burnt valley]

Is that just basically a Simulacrum?

[inner silo]

I'll need to play dark shadow alchemist someday

[flat steeple]

I'm all for creativity but some people really like playing some MC-vibes homebrew classes

[inner silo]

That 4 times per day ability that resets on a short rest sounds very nice

[burnt valley]

Would you allow the Garlic Bread domain Cleric subclass

[lavish flame]

I once had a player approach me for a Curse of Strahd game (gothic fantasy, transylvania vampire story) and ask to play as a Chef class from Dandwiki. I quickly shot that down.

[lyric idol]

Yeah....Theyre the type of people to vote Solo Leveling instead of Frieren....

[inner silo]

Cheese domain when

[flat steeple]

My games are pretty serious and violent, so I generally tell my players to not pick joke or gimmicky or memey characters. So that you know they don't find out their character is massively tone deaf. Which happened once.

If I started running more whimsical campaigns, maybe I would. But it could get old fast.

[burnt valley]

Oh

[inner silo]

Who said a garlic bread domain cleric can't be dark and gloomy?

[burnt valley]

Grimdark?

[glass granite]

Burnt bread

[knotty pasture]

Martials are one of the biggest winners by virtue of a bunch of combat rework features, spellcasting is no longer overwhelmingly dominant (still better than martials)

[lyric idol]

Those games are the best. Gimmick characters just...get boring fast (ik Ive played one). Eventually having a serious character that can actually get involved with the story is way more preferable. Playing a joke character is like sitting outside a house watching people inside eat.

[knotty pasture]

Hard to say who's the best class though, a good chunk of the most op stuff is actually not there

[flat steeple]

"Baking killed my grandma!"

[rough basalt]

I've grown to have a lot of disdain for gimmick characters

[flat steeple]

I'd say I'm closer to something like Song of Ice and Fire in the general tone of "nothing is sacred" and "anything can happen".
Then again, massively pretentious of me to compare myself to one of the most influential books of our century, but, ya know. I just don't think grimdark's adequate

[rough basalt]

But something I'm growing to hate more are burden characters

[burnt valley]

Ohh alright

[lavish flame]

I might also suggest that the lack of the Exploration pillar also majorly enhanced Martial's relative capability when compared to a caster. BG3 is mostly combats and interactions without much exploring being done. If you're good at combat and okay at interaction, you're good.

[rough basalt]

Burden characters are a pain to everyone at the table.

[burnt valley]

The ones that are built to be suboptimal? i.e dumping CON for a backstory reason

[rough basalt]

Dumping main stats

[glass granite]

I don’t allow them for that reason
Gimmicky characters I will allow, as long as it is possible to flesh them out

[rough basalt]

Not using what their class is supposed to do

[lavish flame]

Real

[knotty pasture]

See this is why Rogue just ain't it in bg3 sadly, exploration took a backseat 😔

[rough basalt]

Dumping con is like entry level

[knotty pasture]

When tier lists are determined by dps output the Rogue suddenly is a lot less appealing

[rough basalt]

You haven't suffered till you've had someone play a Sorc with 8 con and 8 charisma

[burnt valley]

Ive seen people that say they love doing that online, its as if they dont want to play as Adventurers but rather victims/commoners

[lyric idol]

Rogues have always been "utility" in 5e. 2024 at least added a DPS subclass psionic blade.

[rough basalt]

It's a pain to everyone else

Cause the DM can't really balance for burden PCs easily

[lyric idol]

Now you can play as Psylock.

[rough basalt]

And the other players have to pick up the slack

[knotty pasture]

Soulknife's there too in 2014, but yeah combat centric campaigns won't be kind to Rogues who are equal parts combat and utility

As opposed to pure martials in a combat campaign

[flat steeple]

I'd genuinely prefer someone dumping stats who's nice, friendly, roleplays well and makes sure everyone has fun at the table, rather than a guy playing a multiclassing, finely tuned optimized character who mutes himself when in anything else than his turn in combat.

[humble cairn]

Soulknife is definitely not a damage subclass. And it wasn't added in 2024 it was present before.

[rough basalt]

I'd rather the optimizer

Cause then the calculator actually works

[lyric idol]

I meant updated and it does good DPS compared to other subclasses.

[rough basalt]

And they're not ruining the fun of everyone else if they're just being cordial about it

[burnt valley]

Good luck trying not to get that guy killed early (unless thats what the PC wants)

[humble cairn]

Soulknife has built in weapons that do consistent damage, but they do not itemize well and weapon classes generally wanted the magic items to really do well with damage, also "DPS" is not pertinent to D&D since we don't really count things in seconds. If anything it's "DPR" you should be using.

[rough basalt]

Then again I've never had hyperoptimized pcs

Just incompetent ones that shouldn't have made it to adventurerhood

[humble cairn]

The honestly most powerful thing about the Soulknife is the Utility. It's a wonderful Utility subclass.

[flat steeple]

It doesn't really matter if everyone's having fun I think

[rough basalt]

That there's almost no reason for a party to even keep them around in character

[glass granite]

I’ve never had pcs that were optimised, at all. Like they were decent, and had the correct stats in places, but not optimised

[humble cairn]

You get the utility of Rary's Telepathic Bonds like 6 levels earlier than any other class, and you get a great Skill buff to avoid failures.

[rough basalt]

Dumped stats, wont take starting equipment so they bum supplies off others

[lyric idol]

I've hyper optimized one character. And that was Wild Magic Sorcerer. Quicken cast a 1st level spell. Trigger magic surge. Cast a cantrip with advantage using ability. Repeat untik combat over.

[lavish flame]

I'm always thinking along the lines of "why are these people together" so when people make mean and aggressive PCs or incompetent PCs or antagonistic PCs, I always wonder what the player is thinking. Nobody is keeping Jim The Nighttime Thief around them if they like having money. Nobody is lugging around The Sorcerer Who Can't Cast because if they do then they risk their lives for no gain.

[humble cairn]

Being able to communicate telepathically with your party is great for a scout character.

[rough basalt]

Yeah even my most heroic PCs wouldn't keep around a cleric that can't use spells

They'd tell them they're useless and to go home before they get killed or worse someone else killed

[flat steeple]

Well what if you play rolled and have terrible luck?

[rough basalt]

That's different

[humble cairn]

Ew, rolled stats.

[rough basalt]

Rolled you accept that reality.

I'm talking people who do this with Point Buy and Standard Array, primarily Point Buy

[flat steeple]

Or you play rolled in one of those tables where the rolled stats are given by rolling a 3d6 exclusively

[lavish flame]

For one. I don't roll stats in my games for this reason.

For two, that character doesn't leave the farm and they recieve no call to adventure.

[rough basalt]

Like for all my games going forward I'm literally banning any PC that isn't properly made

[vivid marlin]

helloooooooo

[humble cairn]

Much can be solved with getting the group's consent at Session 0.

[burnt valley]

Thats very risky but sounds very fun to play

[rough basalt]

You wanna use a greatsword? Well it has the heavy trait so you can't wield it with 8 strength.

[glass granite]

Gooooood morning afternoon evening, Wahzzup!

[lyric idol]

Honestly I'll accept reality unless its utter garbage on a vital stat. Being a sorcerer with 6-8 charisma isnt ideal. It doesnt need to be insanely high but it needs to be useable 😂😅

[vivid marlin]

wahzzup

[glass granite]

Not much, I’m doin well

[vivid marlin]

i am a little bit bgnner in D&D

and in english XD

[lyric idol]

I also allow players to do a new stat roll across the board if their stats are horrible. I'm here to have fun, so are they.

[rough basalt]

I do PB to avoid the harsh consequences of rolled stats so when you make a character who would've died the moment they hit the road intentionally, I don't like you as a person

[glass granite]

Hello a little bit bgnner in D&D, I’m Nugget. I recommend going to #dnd-newcomers if you want help getting more familiar with the rules, by the way.

[vivid marlin]

thank you <3

[burnt valley]

Point buy is king

[lavish flame]

I was in a campaign with a Rogue who had a Dex of 12, which was his best rolled stat. Everything else was negative or 0. Our characters should not have kept that guy around. That Rogue was no better than a merchant or artisan.

[rough basalt]

Cause 1: It's not funny.
2: You're being a pain in the ass
3: Some players/dms are gonna be too nice to tell you to your face you're a pain in the ass

[glass granite]

Wrong reply I think

[knotty pasture]

Negative stats? Wouldn't someone with negative stats just die or fall into a coma or something

[lyric idol]

They meant like -1

[rough basalt]

They wouldn't be able to be an adventurer if they couldn't do what their "talent" is

[glass granite]

Negative modifiers

[burnt valley]

My bad

[rough basalt]

Least not one that any other adventurers would side with realistically

[knotty pasture]

Oh right that makes more sense, but jeez that's no better than John Baldur the npc

[vivid marlin]

i like point buy sistem, sometimes, rolling the stats make my stats very low, i'm not lucky

[glass granite]

Yeah that happens

[knotty pasture]

Just leave the table if I get a bunch of 8s and a 12 in my main stat

[rough basalt]

Like if you're playing John bum who didn't take starting equipment, is a fighter whose stats are
8,8,8,17,15,16
Then you're gone dude

[knotty pasture]

Or just let them use standard array as a fallback

[split dune]

Bingo method is a nice option if you like rolling

[knotty pasture]

No way anyone's playing with those garbage stats

[burnt valley]

Ah yeah, thats reasonable

[pliant sapphire]

Magic iniciate: Druid for Shillelag and pray 😂

[flat steeple]

You'd leave a table and force a dm to look for another replacement player if you aren't satisfied with your rolls?

[rough basalt]

Like I haven't been able to sleep cause of my anxiety over how to deal with the incompetent PC problem at my table.

[knotty pasture]

With those stats yea, its not fun for anyone involved

I'll never contribute, the team has to babysit me

[glass granite]

Just ask to reroll by that point

[rough basalt]

Like they're level 4 and they had trouble killing cr 1/2 enemies cause the Cleric never landed a single hit and the rogue wouldn't use sneak attack cause he wanted to "focus on his spells"

[glass granite]

Oh, you have it bad

[rough basalt]

Legit the only reason they survived a suitable encounter was cause they had a tamed nightmare that all the enemies focused cause of lore reasons

[lavish flame]

I'm more open to rolling if you just roll to randomly determine your game's standard array. I kinda like the idea of everyone rolling for a stat 4d6kh3 and whatever number they get is shared by the whole group.

[vivid marlin]

For very beginner players, I feel the standard array is better. I'm a complete beginner myself because I've played very few times... 2 or 3, and only in one-session campaigns. For me, the point-buying system is great.

[rough basalt]

Yeah its horrible

I feel like I could throw 4 Animated Armors at them and it'd take the whole session

Cause have to rely on the only two who are playing properly hitting the enemy

[knotty pasture]

If they allow rerolling sure, I'll personally ask for standard array as a fallback

[flat steeple]

Then why even join rolled games

[knotty pasture]

If the rolls are slightly below average at best I may take it, whatever that previous example was, its way too severe

Though I would prefer point buy or standard array if I can help it

Like you have to ask what you can actually do as a Rogue with 12 dex 8 con

[jovial badger]

criminal

[lavish flame]

For randomized stats. Most people include some kind of safety net for their stat rolling.

[rough basalt]

My next game is hardcore doing rolled stats

[knotty pasture]

Its not fun for the other PCs to carry someone that way either

[rough basalt]

3d6 in ordee

[fiery nimbus]

Zealot Barbarian?

[knotty pasture]

The party may as well ask for a sidekick

[burnt valley]

tomb of horrors?

[inner silo]

I rolled stats very well for my current game but because we did it in private i almost lowered them so others didn't think i cheated

[rough basalt]

Rolled class, rolled subclass rolled species, rolled background

[lavish flame]

I'll tell you what you can do: Not Much. You pray for Gloves of Thievery (which you do end up getting) and for the most part you do Exploration because you suck in Interaction and Combat.

Source: Tomato the Halfing Rogue.

[inner silo]

Doesn't sound half bad if the DM doesn't do asi restrictions on backgrounds

[knotty pasture]

There you go, 2/3 of the game's locked out to you and during combat your only job is to rush in first and be a meat shield lol

[rough basalt]

Hehehe

[knotty pasture]

Which you'd fail at doing with 8 con anyways

[burnt valley]

Calm down Asmodeus /j

[rough basalt]

Better roll a background you can use.

[knotty pasture]

That kinda evil would make Asmodeus blush...

[rough basalt]

Nah it'll be rolled stats

Tho I'll offer a common magic item of choice for anyone who rolls everything

[lavish flame]

I did that for a one-shot. Had everyone roll (I think) a d10 and 2d12 for their Species, Class, and Background. I used PHB '24 for this.

[glass granite]

-# make them roll that too

[knotty pasture]

I know what common magic item I'll take!