dnd-discussion

[rugged hawk]

Older spell, creates a zone where random teleports happen within its area of effect for a while.

[hollow stone]

isn't Echo Knight broken rn bc they forgot to set targeting parameters for it?

[humble cairn]

Not a 5E spell, though?

[limber trail]

I mean Echo Knight is a 5e subclass so older edition spells don't matter

[hollow stone]

most DMs do just run its targeting as if its an Object

[humble cairn]

What do you mean?

[hollow stone]

like it doesn't define if it's a creature or an object

there's one NPC type that has the same feature but redescribed as an Object

[knotty pasture]

Its an object according to Jeremy Crawford, like a hologram that you can touch directly

https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/fighter/64918-an-echo-knight-faq-frequently-asked-questions

[dense flax]

It is good until someone cast a spell near or on it that always dous at least 1 damage to it

[stuck saddle]

Would you guys fix the new feats from that new vampire mini-book cuz like all of them have the same issue of being so limited for no reason

[dense flax]

There is a chance they get changed but it is not high

[stuck saddle]

Wait seriously? What makes you say that

I guess it’s cuz the books are online only FOR NOW

[woven flint]

Hello, friends

[dense flax]

Don't underestimate the laziness of programmers and Wizards of the Coast (if they feel like updating them they will)

Because I have been waiting over a month for them to synchronise a subclass whit what is written in the book (it is really different between looking up the subclass in the book and when you make a character)

[crimson gulch]

yeah most of them are pretty weak, bomber is ok

[stuck saddle]

I love once per short rest features ITS SO FUN ITS SO FUN HAHAHAHAHJAHAHAHHA !!!

Why is blood lust limited by PB? WE DONT KNOW

[uncut zenith]

I think the reason they’re weaker than feats from 2014 is because people generally have more access to feats now

[crimson gulch]

they are unique though

[hollow stone]

yea but its funnier to say that Matt Mercer is a fiend and a great evil

[uncut zenith]

They’re fine when you realize a character can unlock a bunch of them

[stuck saddle]

I want something I can put on a martial that’s on par with pole arm master or great weapon master

They’re unique and awesome but SO limited like DAMN

[dense flax]

I think moost of the feats should be pb a longest regain 1 use on a short rest

[woven flint]

There IS a lot of Martial-Centred feat, all things considered

[uncut zenith]

I’m excited to check out the Eberron feats later today

[woven flint]

Can't wait to Artifice it up fr

[crimson gulch]

the artificer in my long running home game probobly wont want to update

[dense flax]

Don't suspect to much (look at the ua)

[stuck saddle]

Yeah but I want something on the level of great weapon master,sentinel or pole arm master

[narrow herald]

Am I right in thinking the difference between a cleric and a warlock is being an employee for god TM with retirement (from life) benefits and an independent subcontractor for (insert extraplanar entity)

[stuck saddle]

The other martial central feats are EXTREMELY limited and most of the newer feats for martials in the vampire back are limited by short rest not Pb/long rest

[woven flint]

Clerics also don't necessarily get their powers from Deity, not all the time

[crimson gulch]

depends on the setting and the individual player and dm

[woven flint]

I want a decent spellcaster feat other than War Caster 😔

[crimson gulch]

the spellfire ones are pretty tight

[woven flint]

Eh, I guess
But I'd rather have feats I don't have to invest a background for.

Even then I'd still have to get one to get the other even if I picked it as a feat as it's a prerequisite

[dense flax]

I think you would love the stuff in Forge of the Artificer (but they also require a background)

[woven flint]

Throws a table

[south tendon]

Sorry for last night peoples. I was in a mood and stressed with trying to write a book for a level 20 backstory and I guess that came out in here. Not an excuse I know.

Hope you’re all had a good day so far though.

Thanks for help about the lore. N

[woven flint]

You're twisting my my head, WOTC!
TWISTING

[stuck saddle]

We have cold caster now ig…

[crimson gulch]

level 20 is so fun to play at

[dense flax]

You can ask your dm if you can ignore the prerequisites for them and then they are pretty good

[woven flint]

Stares at you with my cold dead eyes

[crimson gulch]

im running a level 20 one shot this thursday because a bunch of my players are away at thanksgiving

[stuck saddle]

Stares at you with my big happy eyes that are full of life and whisky and joy and sparkles and rainbows and happiness.

[woven flint]

I'm gonna get you.

[stuck saddle]

:(

[marble lion]

Why are you so euphoric about Tokii's death?

[woven flint]

Anyone would be 😎

[marble lion]

It's not normal to view bodies like that.

[woven flint]

I live out of SPITE! >:]

[dense flax]

My dm alouws that (but the parts that are a direct upgrade don't work)

[burnt valley]

what would be the opposite of War Caster

[woven flint]

Mage Slayer

I can't wait to hate on Cartography Artificer because it's another teleporting subclass :3

[marble lion]

Teleports behind you

[knotty pasture]

Speaking of teleporting I also noticed the approximate max distance you could travel as an Echo Knight being like 75 ft per turn

[woven flint]

Explodes

[knotty pasture]

That's nuts, not even a warhorse gets that much distance in a turn

[marble lion]

With dash

[trim gorge]

Hi guys ! Any news on the Forge of the Artificer early access ?

It is due today, is it ?

[dense flax]

It Probably releases
<t:1764082816:t> at the earliest
<t:1764104416:t> at the latest

[slow island]

does anyone know the chances for a black friday discount for FoundryVTT?

[trim gorge]

🤤

Which time zone ?

[dense flax]

Whatever your timezone is

[trim gorge]

Ok thanks that's a good news ! I was fearing a delay

[dense flax]

It is based on your divice time

[glad arch]

Elven accuracy lets you reroll one dice of your attack roll if you have advantage. Is there any difference between rolling the 2 dice then rerolling the lowest vs rolling 3 dice at once?

[knotty pasture]

Even without dash you can get around 64.5 ft travelled if your move speed is 9 ft

[marble lion]

No

[glad arch]

Thats what i assumed, jist curious if i might have overlooked some edge case where its different

[knotty pasture]

I kind of get why Echo Knight's one of the best subclasses now, it does too many things at once and excellently

[marble lion]

One is technically different because you could choose to reroll your higher dice and end up rolling lower

[dense flax]

Not mathematically but it might make you feel better to reroll the lowest die

[marble lion]

But noone would ever do that.... so no difference in practice

[glad arch]

Mmmh, idk what would be more fun tbh. Rolling 3 dice to hit at once seems kinda fun too

[marble lion]

3 dice definitely more fun for me

[dense flax]

I will just roll a 1 on all 3 if I do that (I have done it before)

[marble lion]

Very nice

[south tendon]

Will honestly be my first time as a player in a level 20 game. I’ve ran a couple but never played in one

[crimson gulch]

nice, i have done probably close to 25 level 20 one shots and brought 4 campaigns up to level 20

played at level 20 as a player once, the DM was not prepaed for my Champion 11 vengace 9 Kobold with a dragon slaying spear

wiped out half that ancienet dragons HP in one round

when i run level 20 one shots, the ancient dragon is a warm up for the real challange

[clear lark]

Level 20 shouldn't be much different than the few levels below it. Sure you get a capstone, but if it isn't anything mindboggling, it's likely unnoticeable. Monk and Barbarian, would obviously see improvement in their damage or initiative/wisdom (Monk for all three).

[south tendon]

Well the couple of level 20 camping’s I ran started at level 20 and the characters were just demigods fighting other demigods for domains. It was good fun for the players but not much story cos I’m not that good as dm to write level 20 stories lol.

[crimson gulch]

ah my campaigns that went to 20 all started at 1

[dense flax]

My dm would just turn it to a greatwyrm if we do that (if they didn't plan for it)

[compact nova]

I would love to run a level 20 one shot

[burnt valley]

How long were those campaigns? The ones that ended up at Lvl 20 i mean

[clear lark]

Of course I was assuming that the adventure was with only one class played at 20th, not multiclass for 20 total levels.

[crimson gulch]

3.5 years with an unknown number of sessions.
1.2 years with an unknown number of sessions
2 years with 49 sessions (every other week)
and 68 sessions

[burnt valley]

Oh damn, that's very very long

[south tendon]

For this one going to start playing i just made a level 20 gloomstalker ranger. Switched out favoured enemy for favoured foe. Could be fun, but basic I know. Cos I need to remember everything I can do haha

Sounds like you all made cool characters for yours though. Multiclass would be fun but it gives you more features to remember

[humble cairn]

Which Favored Enemy? 2014 or 2024?

[south tendon]

We’re only allowed to use 2014 stuff. So I switched our favoured enemy from 2014, with I think favoured foe feature (I think it’s from tashas)

[crimson gulch]

Gloomstalkers rock, martials carry in my games, especially at level 20 when the monsters your using all have magic resistance and Massive saving throws

[stoic obsidian]

Especially when they keeping the monster at bay from killing the spellcasters ( melee mostly)

Can’t save from spells

[crimson gulch]

i ran a level 16 one shot the other day where the final fight was 3 liches that were circle casting spells, what a wild ride that was

[humble cairn]

Ok having played 2014 Ranger I actually find 2014 Favored Enemy more interesting than Tasha's Favored Foe.

[south tendon]

They are fun. I like being able to be pretty much invisible in darkness. Though they don’t hit for very damage it seems.

[crimson gulch]

if your doing a level 20 one shot you should have some epic gear

[south tendon]

Like I’ve got a +3 bow even and the damage looks like it’d stuck lol

[crimson gulch]

a pair of flametoung weapons or a dragonwing bow or something like that

[stoic obsidian]

Plus 3 weapons are useful for consistency of hits than damage

[humble cairn]

But Primeval Awareness, the 3rd level feature of 2014 Ranger is hot garbage. It's literally worse than useless. So I suggest switching it out for the Tasha's optional feature.

[crimson gulch]

bracers of archery, sharpshooter 2014 and archery fighting style and you should be slaying hard, pop up hunters mark and thats d8 d6 plus 3+10+5+2 per shot

[stoic obsidian]

Hunters mark, is the bread and butter of rangers

Melee or ranged

[humble cairn]

Gloomstalkers!? Not hit for a lot of damage? They're used in a lot of extremely damaging builds, though ... usually with Assassin multiclass.

[rugged hawk]

You sure you didn't misspell 'dual scimmies and a magic cat'?

[humble cairn]

Ehh ... I kind of ignored it on my Ranger and didn't feel like I missed out on much.

[stoic obsidian]

You use stride?

[humble cairn]

Do you mean Ashardalon's Stride?

[stoic obsidian]

What you referencing?

[dense flax]

It is not useless you can check if there are hidden creatures around (Joking)

[crimson gulch]

the ranger in my saturday night game is slayng so hard, Visceous shortsword and Frostbrand Scimitar, nick weapon mastery, dual weild feat and hunters mark, if all their attacts connect in a round its 20d6 plus 2d10 plus 24 damage

[south tendon]

True but sadly the magic items I took was:

+3 longbow
Mithral half-plate +1
Short sword of warning

Which left me with 1 point in the table my dm uses to give points to spend on magic weapons at character creation. So I took a shield.

[stoic obsidian]

I just say stride, because I can’t remember the first part

[stoic obsidian]

Wanna hear about my 2024 halberd hunter ranger idea

[south tendon]

I figured I’d need a decent AC for level 20 since things usually hit hard. And even with a 20 in DEX, +1 half plate + shield, I still only have a 20. So pretty good chance unless I can hide and stuff, I’ll be getting hit.

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, ac becomes less potent at higher levels

[humble cairn]

But you can't tell the difference between something in the same room and something a mile away. It's not actionable information at all.

[south tendon]

And 2 to 3 good hits by an enemy and I’ll probably be dead lol. Sooooo we’ll see how this goes

[humble cairn]

No, I don't use Ashardalon's Stride. I'm often concentrating on Entangle or Summon Beast.

Though I do play a Wisdom maxed Ranger, rather than Dexterity.

[stoic obsidian]

Oh yeah you play shillleglie ranger

[dense flax]

What is wrong whit knowing if there is at least one fiend whitin 6 miles of you if it is your favourite fow

[humble cairn]

It's not useful or actionable, and also you can't tell the difference between one fiend or a hundred elementals.

[humble cairn]

Absolutely. Sticks and Stones!

[south tendon]

Maybe I should have picked a fighter that had high HP and good AC but meh I had to pick a squishy class lol

[humble cairn]

Shillelagh and Magic Stone.

[stoic obsidian]

Become a baseball player

Wait baseball ranger

[humble cairn]

Nah I'm a Dinosaur Wrangler.

[limber trail]

at level 20 you should be able to do much better than 20 AC, if you're a martial user

[dense flax]

You can specify a creature type (soo you can use it if someone has locate creature and dousn't want to burn a spelslot if something is to far away)

[stoic obsidian]

No, I just got a idea for another kind of ranger idea

[humble cairn]

No you cannot. Not according to the text of the feature.

[south tendon]

Gloomstalker ranger with 20 DEX sadly the only way I can increase it is with better armour, but I’m wearing the best armour I can get.

[humble cairn]

Primeval Awareness tells you if at least one creature from one of seven creature types is somewhere within one mile of you. That's it.

"Is there a ..."
"YES"

It doesn't tell you number, direction, or type besides that it's at least one among seven creature types.

And it burns a spell slot to tell you that. Like I said, worse than useless. You come out with one less spell slot and no usable information.

[south tendon]

This works very well though to prep. Especially if you then do a recall knowledge check on said creature, you can prep for it.

[limber trail]

Do you have access to magic items? (Which, most level 20 games will have). Here's a few ways you can increase that AC,

+1/+2/+3 Shields
+1/+2/+3 Armour
Cloak & Ring of Protection
Magic initiate Spells like shield of faith & shield
Multiclassing with something like monk for unarmoured defence

(And, if you aren't using a shield, then I would say you probably don't need to worry about AC in the first place)

[humble cairn]

No, you can't because you don't know if it's a fiend, celestial, elemental, undead or whatever.

[south tendon]

I’m wearing +1 mithral Halfplate already.

[knotty pasture]

Multiclassing into Monk might be more trouble than its worth cuz now you need to stack plenty of wisdom to break even with whatever armor you're wearing

[humble cairn]

Always switch out Primeval Awareness for the Tasha's Version if you can.

[vestal hedge]

D&D is life!¡!!!!!

[plush prairie]

So

I have killed my first player

[knotty pasture]

How do you feel

[plush prairie]

Does that count as exp for DMs or..

[humble cairn]

Player character, surely?

[old sluice]

Yes that's the funny thing because, as far as I am concerned, you are always within a mile of an undead, aberration, fiend, dragon, fey, elemental or celestial.

[plush prairie]

Yeh PC
Good
Guess i am level 2 now

[limber trail]

I'm curious, what inspired +1 mithril halfplate as opposed to +1 or +2 studded leather?

[plush prairie]

For instance
He tried to charm a succubi

[old sluice]

You are probably always within one mile of all seven

[humble cairn]

Useless, useless ability.

[humble cairn]

The ability cannot tell the difference between seven vampire lords seated at the table around you and one single mud mephit a mile underground.

[old sluice]

It's hilarious really

[humble cairn]

YES ... that's all you get

[south tendon]

Except when you pick this you also get speak with animals and speak with plants. Sooooo you detect the thing near by and then you speak with the animals and plants around you to gather more information about it. And as a ranger you should be good at tracking it as well, so your party can then prepare and stay down wind of it while they sneak up on it to all get a free round of attacks against it with surprise attacks.

[old sluice]

"There's a dragon within one mile". Sure. It could be Agregar, the ancient red, bane of kings and greatest of calamities. Or it could be the pseudodragon that lives in the old herborist's house.

[dense flax]

It is wurs if there is a changeling or fairy in your party

[old sluice]

Fey? Yes, an archfey could be ready to strike behind you. Or it could just be one dryad chilling with her tree

[knotty pasture]

Isn't that a lot of spell slots just to do one thing

[humble cairn]

No ... you do not. You're talking about "Primal Awareness" whichi s the updated version.

[south tendon]

No cos that’s what they’re meant to be for lol. It’s why you have those spells

[limber trail]

At level 20, most of the enemies you face will either be obvious without the spell, or too subtle for plants & animals to have seen

[humble cairn]

Primal Awareness replaces Primeval Awareness. And a good thing it does, too.

[south tendon]

Oh okay. I guess I misunderstood which one you meant sorry.

[old sluice]

Really the only way the feature is useful is when the answer is no, there are none of those things within one mile. Or six if you're in your favoured terrain (which, funnily enough, makes it a feature that gets worse when synergising with your other features). If there are none of those things, you are in a wasteland.

[humble cairn]

Always take that update, because Primeval Awareness is a dumpster fire of an ability.

[humble cairn]

It actively gets less useful in your favored terrain, what bad design.

[old sluice]

I am amazed by it honestly.

Who thought it was a good idea?

[limber trail]

oh wow I never realised primeval awareness requires a spell slot to use

[humble cairn]

So bad in every way

[old sluice]

I mean seriously, what kind of place are you even in, if the answer is "no, there are none of those things with six miles"?

Maybe in the astral plane, no dragons within six miles, alright, I can get behind that

But if you're anywhere on the material.

[humble cairn]

And if your Wizard has a Familiar there's just no point in using it at all.

[old sluice]

There shouldn't ever be any point on the planet where you are more than six miles away from any of those things

[hollow stone]

man, primitive awareness, primeval awareness, where's my Primordial Awareness? when are they gonna let me detect creatures by their evolutionary origins within the primordial soup?

[south tendon]

I mean what else you going to use your spell slots on as a ranger lol.

[humble cairn]

There's plenty of things?

[old sluice]

Ranger spells. You know, the pretty neat spell list that includes those cool arrow spells

[hollow stone]

gimme a microscopic Ranger subclass

[humble cairn]

I throw out Entangle when I can or summon a minion or Conjure Barrage or use Cure Wounds now that we lost our Cleric.

[south tendon]

But they do so little damage is it really even worth having them?

[hollow stone]

let me have features based off of bacteria and other single celled lifeforms

[humble cairn]

If you're playing a level 20 Ranger you kinda better learn the Ranger spell list.

[dense flax]

If the awnser is no i would be very scared

[humble cairn]

Really? Damage is not the only thing.

[old sluice]

Some sort of wasteland. But on the bright side, it's just empty.

[dense flax]

Or a humanoid

[knotty pasture]

Idk Ranger actually has neat spells

[old sluice]

Well.. Maybe there's a Godzilla-like monstrosity nearby that ate everything?

[humble cairn]

I have been able to turn the tide campaigns on my Ranger because of the Control and Support and Utility I bring to the table, Damage is like the most boring thing I could add. And even then, I've been clutch with a well timed and positioned Conjure Barrage when I had to.

[old sluice]

But if it's a monstrosity that killed everything, you should see it coming

[knotty pasture]

Spike Growth, Revivify

[humble cairn]

Ranger is a half caster. Don't ignore your spells, that's half your toolkit.

[dense flax]

Or it has nystul's magic aura

[south tendon]

I mean let’s be fair, 3d8 for something like conjure barrage is meaningless to a decently high CR monster. And if it saves (which it probably will) the damage becomes less than meaningless.

[humble cairn]

Again, you are focusing on the wrong thing.

I provided Damage when it was needed but the times when I changed the course of the game session were when I provided Control and Utility options.

when I want to I have 6 attacks in a round, all based on my Wisdom.

[old sluice]

Also who said you'd use it on a "decently high CR monster"? Even at high level you will need a quick way to dispatch lower CR monsters during fights

[humble cairn]

But otherwise I am the solution to many other problems that my partymates can't do.

[lyric idol]

My Eberron book is finally shipping. I'm glad I dont have to wait till December 😭

[humble cairn]

You're about to play a level 20 Ranger and you don't seem to have a very high opinion? Why are you playing the class then?

[south tendon]

I’d think it would be better to use the spell slots to help the rest of the party prepare.

Like if you can manage to learn info on a monster, the wizard can prepare spells specifically to counter and kill it. The martials can prepare a strategy to lure it to them and lock it down while the wizard gets off their planned series of spell etc. and as a ranger you can pick up any little straggler minions with lower health that try to escape.

Or in my opinion anyway

[humble cairn]

What's a "partial?"

Oh you probably meant martial. Also Ranger is a martial as well.

[stoic haven]

Boo

[lyric idol]

Erhm akshually ranger can cast spells 🤓

[humble cairn]

Yes

[stoic haven]

Aaaand?

[old sluice]

You're not going to fight a single monster. This game expects 6 to 8 encounters. Preparing your spells thinking about only one is suicidal

[south tendon]

This is true but not really a good one. And I say that as someone who is going to play one lol. I mean 2 attacks turn does kinda suck, when you consider how many a fighter can do.

[knotty pasture]

Ophid did say that Ranger is a half caster so they didn't contradict themselves 🤷

[humble cairn]

This ... is a terrible take.

Are we saying Fighter is literally the only "good" martial?

[lyric idol]

I was being sarcastic thats what the 🤓 is for

[knotty pasture]

Fighter is an anomaly, no other martial gets that many attacks iirc

The whole gimmick behind Fighter is attacking a dozen times per turn

[humble cairn]

And also ... did I not mention that I can have 6 attacks per round if I wanted to? All based on my primary stat of Wisdom?

[lyric idol]

And we love fighters gimmick.

[knotty pasture]

Echo Knight keeps winning

[humble cairn]

Fighter is great, but the idea that the only way to be a good martial class is to have more than two attacks a round is a bad one.

[atomic kayak]

tbf it expects a widely variable number of encounters. But either way, the likelihood of any given encounter having a single monster should be low.

Ranger is generally unique among half casters and martials in that it gets highly reliable AoE damage

[knotty pasture]

I'm messing around as a Ranger atm and its putting in some work, the spells don't really suck and its outputting good damage

[south tendon]

Not exactly. Fighter is the best for front liner. They can attack hard and fast and take good punishment. Barbarian can be almost impossible to kill (especially if you got a dedicated healer to keep them up) and they hit like a truck. Ranger is okay as a back liner that has some utility if they run into danger. But they aren’t lasting that long in a fight (having seen what they get while making one)

[lyric idol]

That isnt the only way to be a good martial class. It just so happens that any other gimmick doesnt compare besides Paladins divine smite. Rogues sneak attack needs to be buffed tbh.

[atomic kayak]

Rangers generally hit as hard as fighers do

[old sluice]

Rangers generally last as long as fighters do

[knotty pasture]

Kind of disagree on that one, Fighters can hit harder but that's the only thing they can do for the most part

[humble cairn]

This has not been my experience, perhaps see what you think after actually playing.

[knotty pasture]

Barbs are suspectable to being kited and healers? Lol

[old sluice]

A "dedicated healer" is silly. Wasting valuable spell slots just so the barbarian can keep standing?

[humble cairn]

The neat little THP from Tireless is kind of like their equivalent of Second Wind. Nice that you can apply it proactively.

[knotty pasture]

The Barb may have been the worst of the three martials in this context simply because they have no ranged game without magical throwables, healers won't solve a Barb's issues either

[old sluice]

Also barbs can have relatively poor AC.

[south tendon]

I mean if a party doesn’t have a dedicated healer they’re in more danger of dying. So like .. a Druid with the ability to do something like summon a unicorn, with a filled out spell list of healing spell and spells to get back up downed allies will keep the parry alive much longer

[knotty pasture]

The best way to not die in dnd is to kill the enemy faster or use control spells not attempt to outheal the damage

[old sluice]

So I'm not up to date on 2024: Is there actually an option to summon a unicorn?

[knotty pasture]

Because you can't without dedicating your all to a Life Cleric and that stuff's not mandatory whatsoever

[humble cairn]

No .. this is really not how it works out. Dedicating a whole character to only healing is wasting a character.

[knotty pasture]

Healbots are romantic at best but impractical at worst

[inner silo]

Is the 2014 thief rogue good?

[knotty pasture]

The best support to a Barb isn't healing its hold person/monster

[lyric idol]

Thankfully clerics can do damage and heal.

[lyric idol]

Good roleplay and with specific builds yes.

[knotty pasture]

Healing word is excellent as a ranged revive in the middle of a fight

[inner silo]

Light/war domain going full on with just damage and tanking

[knotty pasture]

(Don't actually tank with Light domain you're just griefing)

[old sluice]

Really when it comes to healing, just have two party members with one or two healing spells in their list and a few potions and it's fine

[knotty pasture]

Cleric's a bit too important in general to tank, a lot of their best spells are concentration based

[inner silo]

Can they work with a rapier build?

[knotty pasture]

Not something you want to sacrifice just to die first

[old sluice]

My favourite trick is unseen servant. Give one of those a bunch of healing potions and standing orders to give them to allies going down, you have solved healing

[humble cairn]

Frontline Clerics are definitely a thing, though.

[knotty pasture]

It is, just not at the very front literally

[lyric idol]

....Yes, but not as good as a a ranged crossbow build or an arcane trickster build. Rogues tend to be better using ranged attacks.

[humble cairn]

Frontline Cleric basically uses Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon (in 2014), and the Dodge Action.

[knotty pasture]

In a team of 4 they should be at 2nd

Someone has to keep up bless etc

[south tendon]

I really don’t like this whole “move up to it and never move form that spot and slug it till it’s dead” style of combat lol

[lyric idol]

Upcasting 2024 spiritual weapon and just let it go ham

[knotty pasture]

If it works it works

[humble cairn]

They can be fine being a huge source of AOE and decent single target damage while dodging to keep themselves and their concentration up.

[knotty pasture]

Ranger can get away with it bc of excellent AC and above average health

[inner silo]

I see. How does gameplay with a ranged weapon rogue work during fights?

[knotty pasture]

Have a martial hug an enemy, ranged sneak attack them

[reef tundra]

Ranged rogues are peak

[humble cairn]

It works great! Rogues excel at archery builds.

[knotty pasture]

Repeat and rinse until everything is dead

[reef tundra]

This is the way

[old sluice]

Aim, shoot, sneak attack. If you have your bonus action, hide after shooting. Stay in cover

[inner silo]

Can also take 1 level dip to fighter since your capstone is iffy

[south tendon]

Excellent AC? Really? How does ranger have excellent AC? They have the same amount of AC as a bog standard warlock or a wizard with mage armour.

[inner silo]

I see

[humble cairn]

Target an enemy standing next to your ally so you get Sneak Attack. and yeah .. that's it every turn.

[south tendon]

Unless you wear magic armour

[lyric idol]

With a fighter in the front, you use your bow + sneak attack to get lots of damage. Certain builds straight up allow you to deal insane damage at the very beginning of a fight (Assassin subclass) to one specific enemy.

[inner silo]

So it's just stand and shoot one guy for 20 levels?

[humble cairn]

Hiding behind things if you can, but kinda yeah. It gets more interesting if you'rep laying a 2024 rogue.

[inner silo]

Sadly the campaign is 2014

[lyric idol]

Yeah 2024 Rogue is def better.

[old sluice]

Yes. The thing you should be doing

[limber trail]

A ranger has a resting AC ceiling of 21 with good equipment and feats, not including magic items. Definitely not bad, or even comparable with warlocks & wizards

[humble cairn]

This is only if you look at combat without looking at anything else. Rogues get great Skills, but that's Utility (our of combat solutions to problems).

[lyric idol]

Talk to your DM and show them which subclass youd wanna play. 2024 subclasses are compatible with 2014 its just balance changes mostly.

[inner silo]

Are they great out of combat?

[knotty pasture]

They stack dex baseline, rapier + shield gives some AC

[south tendon]

21 is getting hit though most of the time by anything decently high level. When the thing has a +12 to hit, 21 is nothing.

[humble cairn]

You are also very good at being fast and slipping through enemy ranks so if there's ever an encounter where the goal isn't just making all the enemy's blood fall out (which should be most encounters if you have a skilled DM) then you can be very good at getting things to places.

[limber trail]

Once you’re high level, you usually have magic items to help with that AC. The game is balanced around it.

[old sluice]

When the thing has +12 to hit, everyone is getting hit.

[lyric idol]

Really good. Pick a couple of skills like Sleight of hand and double that prof. Bonus and suddenly outside an impossible skill check nothing can keep you out.

[humble cairn]

Excellent out of combat!

[limber trail]

A +12 to hit misses you on an 8 or lower. That’s a 40% miss rate, that’s pretty good.

[old sluice]

When fighting monsters like that, get to at least 22 so they have 50% chance of hitting you or less. Try to impose disadvantage.

[knotty pasture]

Average in combat second to none in utility, rivalled by Bard

[inner silo]

Alrighty, then it doesn't sound too bad at all since the campaign isn't battle focused, or at least not supposed to be

[old sluice]

If you have less than 20 AC when fighting a monster with +12, you're in trouble

[lyric idol]

I wouldnt even recommend playing up close with Rogue. Sure you CAN. But even with high AC Rogue is squishy.

[inner silo]

@humble cairn @lyric idol thanks for the help!

[limber trail]

And I’ll be clear, that 21 resting AC without magic items is the same as basically every other class in the game, barbarians and monks being the exception.

[lyric idol]

Np

[humble cairn]

Monsters will probably always be able to hit you. The game isn't balanced for PCs to get out of fights scot free.

[knotty pasture]

Took me so much effort to get 19 AC without ASI as Barb

[lyric idol]

No but being able to avoid attacks as often as possible is goodm

[humble cairn]

Can you survive a few hits? Can you Control the enemy? Can you Support your allies to take the enemy down?

[limber trail]

The level 20 feature is helpful for bumping you up

[old sluice]

I played a monk with 22 AC without magic items.

24 if I did an unarmed strike.

[limber trail]

Yeah that’s why I listed monks and barbarians as exceptions

[lyric idol]

Thie issue being: hitting level 20 😂

[south tendon]

True when they smack you for something like 8d8 damage per hit. And unless you’re maxed in CON you’re not taking many of those. Let’s just take the average of 36. That’s 72 damage per its turn (assuming it only has 2 hits), in 2 turns you’re dead. 3 at most.

[humble cairn]

Ahh Kensei ❤️

[old sluice]

Oh, I thought you meant the other way around.

[humble cairn]

Yes, that's to be expected. The game is designed and balanced around 3 round combats.

[reef tundra]

Combat is meant to be 3 rounds?!

[old sluice]

Yes. Normally. More or less.

[reef tundra]

Wait… no that tracks

Yeah it tracks. I just thought of my last combat and it was 3 rounds

[humble cairn]

Mythic Monsters maybe make a combat last longer.

[eager marsh]

It's one of many reasons that spells with 'do less damage per hit over time' vs 'instant aoe nuke' are usually worse in practice

[old sluice]

Mythic monsters essentially turn one fight into two

[south tendon]

While the monster usually have so much health they can outlast 90% of your party. I’m not saying ranger is terrible. I’m going to play one. But even saying that, it does feel like a weak class to me that is much better as being support.

[old sluice]

Or three. (Looking at you, Auril)

[eager marsh]

Ranger isnt a suport at all. Which ruleset are you reading'

[old sluice]

(Technically not a mythic monster but come on. She's a mythic monster)

[humble cairn]

Support is not weak. But neither is Ranger fully Support. It is a versatile class that can do a lot of things. Much of which is out of combat Utility as befits their Expert status .. oh wait you're playing a 2014 Ranger, only one Expertise, I guess.

[uncut zenith]

She’s like the first draft of what eventually became mythic monsters

[south tendon]

2014. And very few of the features I get as gloomstalker makes it good in direct combat. It’s better at hiding and taking pop shots. Or styling mid/to back line and supporting the main cast.

[humble cairn]

I mean, Rangers do have Support abilities. I spent half of last session healing allies because they got downed.

[old sluice]

The... main cast?

[limber trail]

8d8 is very far out of what creatures with a +12 are gonna have for attack rolls. A blue adult dragon, which is a CR 16 with a +12, deals 2d8+1d10+7 (average 21) and does three attacks per action.

[reef tundra]

I have seen no class underperform because of the class, in my many years of playing

[reef tundra]

The only times I’ve seen classes underperform is with lacklustre building, bad luck, or lack of preparation

[hollow stone]

the other players in the party

[reef tundra]

Like a wizard with all fire spells when… facing a devil

[south tendon]

Which still brings it close in actual damage though lol. I was just using an example without looking up any actual stat blocks.

[humble cairn]

Gloomstalker can be invisible with impunity under the right circumstances, which means all of their attacks get Advantage, which makes their damage numbers go up if you're taking accuracy into account, which is the correct way to consider damage numbers.

[uncut zenith]

I can’t recall a single official rules that refers to the party as “the main cast”, so I’m honestly you’re pulling this out of an official D&D book.

[old sluice]

Yes but the way it's phrased makes it seem like the ranger is supportive cast

[humble cairn]

All PCs are main cast.

[hollow stone]

main cast is an insane way to diminish someone's role in their own game tho lmfao

[south tendon]

In darkness true. Depends on the dm making the place dark.

[hollow stone]

also wait wasn't Gloomstalker the 2024 update subclass for ranger????

[rugged hawk]

Fighters are just caster's sidekicks

[humble cairn]

First round of combat you get a whole extra attack plus 1d8.

[eager marsh]

2014? The rules where Gloomstalker was objectively and far away the strongest Ranger subclass even in direct combat? You get a free whole extra attack with a damage buff at no cost every fight turn 1 with an initiative boost. With the above statementr of combat being balanced around 3 turns, you always expidite the fight closer to an end with that start. And then you have stealth as a free bonus on top of that for exploration

[soft flume]

Forge of the Artificer is supposed to be available already, yet it's not

[humble cairn]

JayCat is playign a 2014 Gloomstalker.

[hollow stone]

didn't they not exist in 2014??????

i was under the concept that they were invented in 2024

[uncut zenith]

DDB never promises exactly when a new book will be ready on the day of. Once it’s up and running, they’ll make an announcement.

[old sluice]

The same thing as yesterday is happening. Jay is saying wildly untrue things and we're all jumping on it.

[stoic obsidian]

Forever and always

[eager marsh]

No it was the single subclass that made Ranger powerful

[humble cairn]

It's a little nuts how someone is talking about 2014 Gloomstalker, widely viewed as an overpowered damaging subclass, as not doing enough damage?

[eager marsh]

Every other subclass underperformed vs it

[soft flume]

I see the exact time in the Licenses

[humble cairn]

Are we thinking troll?

[rugged hawk]

Has it occurred to anyone that Jay might be the troll in the dungeon? Someone call Harry.

[eager marsh]

Ron solved the troll problem not Harry

[hollow stone]

i think Rangers are still in the Gloomstalker meta too, right?

[uncut zenith]

And sometimes it takes longer than they expected

[rugged hawk]

My point exactly, we need to dispose of Harry

[old sluice]

No. It feels like honestly-held beliefs, but trollish tactics. If that makes sense?

[stoic obsidian]

Yup

[eager marsh]

No because base Ranger was sufficiently fixed and Gloomstalker rightfully nerfed

[old sluice]

The goalposts keep moving

[glossy otter]

Voldemort: "Agreed. He's a menace to our society"

[eager marsh]

"The boy let a python loose on his own cousin!"

[south tendon]

Stealth depends on the place being dark. This depends on the dm making the place dark. All it takes is for a party of enemies to have a couple of lanterns in their hideout and your stealth advantage is totally negated. Even if you manage to pull of hide in plain sight, that breaks as soon as you move. And then you’re just a dude with a bow doing 1d8 damage per hit.

[hollow stone]

oh okei, i remember making a 2024 Ranger and none of the PHB classes really felt better than Gloomstalker

[stoic obsidian]

I want to know

[old sluice]

1d8+dex+eventual magic bonus+maybe sharpshooter

[eager marsh]

You are no more a 'dude witha bow doing 1d8 per hit' than a regular fighter with a bow or longsword. You're clearly underselling your whole class here. The Ambush feature always activates, enemies having light doesn't make stealth impossible either

[humble cairn]

Ok at this point I would just point to #optimization to take it away and teach how 2014 Gloomstalker did.

[south tendon]

You need to sacrifice your ASIs to take that feat. Meaning you’re less effective over all despite having a feat.

[eager marsh]

Many darkvision reliant enemies do not use light sources on purpose because they dont need them and non-darkvision habers rolling up with lights exposes them

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh I think people get to fixated on damage

[eager marsh]

That's explicitly false. Feats are stronger than ASIs

[lyric idol]

Only a few are for certain builds.

[rugged hawk]

Damage is overrated, Wail of the Banshee

[atomic kayak]

Releases are usually live on DDB at <t:1764090000:t>

[old sluice]

No you do not. You could have the feat at level 1. You could take it after maxing your dex. You could have earned it as a story reward if your DM is one of those.

[hollow stone]

yea, this, stat buffs are decent but there has to be a preexisting structure to make it better than more buttons

[south tendon]

Not true though. You want a 20 in DEX otherwise your damage and ac is far worse and you want a 20 in WIS because that’s your spell DC. That takes all the ASIs. Take a dip in either one of those and you’re a less effective ranger.

[eager marsh]

Still incorrect

[knotty pasture]

You don't need 20 in wis what

I'd go no further than 16 in wis tops

[hollow stone]

you do not need a 20 in WIS or DEX to have an impact, what???? lmao

[atomic kayak]

not having 20 in a stat is not as big a deal as you are making it out to be lol

[knotty pasture]

You could even settle with 18 dex tbh

[atomic kayak]

I've seen plenty of people go entire campaigns (including through to high level) without getting a 20 in their ""main"" stat(s)

[stoic obsidian]

Especially against the mind whip, monk grapple, the thief Rogue throwing caltrops, and champion fighter actually hitting the enemy in the dark, seriously being able to hit is important than the damage

[eager marsh]

The only time that has ever felt true for me was playing my Monk where the only ASI I've taken that wasn't just +2Dex or Wis was when I took Grappler at lv 4

[glossy otter]

wait, whats the situation unfolding?

[wraith shoal]

Anyone know when Forge of the artificer early access starts?

[eager marsh]

They think their 2014 gloomstalker is weak and feats are bad over asi

[knotty pasture]

Ranger is apparently a terrible class and isn't worth its salt as a martial compared to the likes of Fighter and Barb

[south tendon]

Without a 20 in DEX you’re doing less damage and you ac is worse so you’re taking more damage. If you don’t have a 20 in WIS you’re making it far easier for the monsters to save against your spells and ignore them.

[wraith shoal]

This is not true.

[knotty pasture]

The damage is negligible compared to taking feats

[eager marsh]

+1 dex is worse than most feats that directly impact your build

[knotty pasture]

Ranger is also not Cleric/Druid and doesn't need 20 wis to go somewhere

[stoic obsidian]

Which is a bold face lie

[hollow stone]

yea like a +5 in things is kinda cool but i'd never fathom it to be that cost effective compared to the resources you need to dump into it

[rugged hawk]

As someone used to a 32-point buy in mythic Pathfinder, this 27-point buy is making me very sad.

[eager marsh]

Monk is the one class where I'd say taking maybe 1 feat is fine and putting the rest to ASI only because their mechanics are self sufficient.

Grappler feat my beloved

[atomic kayak]

this is a very narrow view of the game and it does not matter as much as you seem to think

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh you need take more than one feat is when you roll for stats and got lucky

Beware of the lucky rollers

[knotty pasture]

Considering this is the same guy who said Barb is a good martial because he's beefy and a healer can easily just heal them full time...

How I wish my Barb had the same fate when I was punching through things

[hollow stone]

technically yes, but there are many kinds of monsters, even Dragons, with negative stats who aren't good at saves. technically monsters will have an easier time, but if you just chal the stats right then they're not gonna be succeeding that much regardless of if you have a +5 or a +3

[eager marsh]

27 point buy is superior and fair across the board

[stoic obsidian]

I would agree

[atomic kayak]

well no, thats an entirely different conversation

Barb is a good martial though

[knotty pasture]

(There were no healers, the beefy part was mostly cuz it was Ancestral Guardian which was fun)

[eager marsh]

fun fact, Green dragons suck at con saves despite being big dragons. Fun time me and the other Monk had last Thursday

every creature has a weak save you can target

[rugged hawk]

I hear what you're saying, but 5 12's and a 16 makes me feel soft and squishy.

[hollow stone]

yea, it's a know-thy-enemy type ball

[eager marsh]

Thats your active choice then

[knotty pasture]

Jeez that's a terrible roll, five 12s?

[old sluice]

There's the possibility of rolling once and everyone has to use the stats rolled

[eager marsh]

my rng suffering makes me fear that

[rugged hawk]

27 point buy, with +1 to one stat and +2 to another stat. 13 Str, Dex/Con/Int/Wis 12, Cha 16

[old sluice]

It is fair though.

[knotty pasture]

But why have five 12s though

[hollow stone]

what's the baseline for stats in a 27 point buy? like what do they start at without points in them?

[rugged hawk]

8

[eager marsh]

reminds me of an oldhead I play with on thursdays. He adamantly refuses to put stats he doesnt use ever to 8 so his relevant stats can be better. His dex10 paladin and str10 fighter holding his main stats back a whole +1 mod always bothered my ocd

[knotty pasture]

Six 8s

[hollow stone]

yea pointbuy sounds like a hellish and terrifying nightmare

[stoic obsidian]

And huggable

[knotty pasture]

Ideally you want three stats in 15 and rest in 8

A MAD class's dream

[hollow stone]

can you even recreate Standard Array with Point Buy???

[eager marsh]

Thats literally what standard array is

[stoic obsidian]

I say roll twice, and pick the three best and three worst stats

[eager marsh]

it's a pre-spent 27 point buy example.

[hollow stone]

oh that's weird

[knotty pasture]

You can recreate standard array iirc but its a bad idea to

Standard array seems to be frowned upon by #optimization

[eager marsh]

its not particularly optimized with the points but its calculated teh same

it's because the values are less than ideally arranged

[south tendon]

I guess. But I still think the ranger I made is gonna die the first time they get into combat. I got like 163 HP, 20AC and manage even with a +3 longbow my damage output sucks worse than a warlock with eldritch blast, agonising blast and eldritch spear so they can stay far outside the monsters realistic hit range while still hitting it.

[stoic obsidian]

Really?

I thought be happy with the controlled stats

[hollow stone]

i don't like the habitat of #optimization , they spend a lot of time answering my questions by pretending i didn't ask them and talking about something else

[eager marsh]

That's because you refuse to use feats. Sharpshooter/Great Weapon Mastery were the golden standard for martial amage output. Without a better magic item you will objectively always lose out on raw dps to a high level eldritch blast + hex spam

[stoic obsidian]

I know how you feel

[knotty pasture]

There's probably some stats that are useless to optimization that they'd rather keep them at 8 and buff useful stats instead

[stoic obsidian]

They say going into melee is bad

[south tendon]

Why would I use a great weapon on a ranger?

[rugged hawk]

....or I keep this initial roll set of 17/16/15/17/9/11

[knotty pasture]

Well tbh going to melee is a bad idea literally

[hollow stone]

because Push mastery is by far the funniest mastery in the game

[rugged hawk]

I like this better than point buy

[eager marsh]

You wouldn't. You would use Sharpshooter. the feats do the same thing between melee/ranged and I was speaking about them being used for martial builds in general

[knotty pasture]

It was never about the damage output its the damage you'd take in turn

[south tendon]

There are no masteries in 2014

[stoic obsidian]

Rolling for stats

[hollow stone]

oh you're playing the other 5e lmao

[stoic obsidian]

I am fine with all three methods of generating stats

[burnt valley]

Point buy my beloved

[eager marsh]

The matrial/caster divide is distintly worse in 2014 rules which you are currently using and intentionally not taking feats will only make you feel weaker, especially not taking Sharpshooter on a ranged archer build

[hollow stone]

i'm still dying on the hill of saying having a projectile that can knock people back 10 feet is the funniest device in the game

[eager marsh]

Green Arrow and his boxing glove arrows

[south tendon]

But even if their were how does pushing an enemy, what it is it, 10ft make a difference. You’re not getting any op attack because it’s not voluntary movement, and they’re just gonna step up to you again next turn.

[stoic obsidian]

I don’t buy the martial caster divide, on certain things

[hollow stone]

this is literally Warlock's Repelling Blast, yea, but it's really funny that you can just purchase a big crossbow for the same effect

[eager marsh]

You're really overly simplifying effects. Pushing an enemy away forces them to not be able to melee attack you. A warlock can push them back with each eldritch blast hit, potentially forcing enemies to dash instead of make attacks

[hollow stone]

i think you're confusing funny with viable

[eager marsh]

No no pushing them 10 ft is plenty viable. Warlocks can trivialize any melee only target

[stoic obsidian]

Yup and knocking enemies prone is also useful

[south tendon]

But it does nothing. Unless the enemy happens to be standing 5 ft away from the edge of a big drop

[hollow stone]

i do not care at all whether it's optimal, i think it's absurdly funny that they have to spend 10 feet of movement to get back to me

[eager marsh]

Positioning is a non-zero value to combat you know. Also, you're a ranger. Cast Spike Growth. Every 10 ft an enemy gets pushed through that is free no saving throw damage

[stoic obsidian]

Because reducing movement is great for casters, rogue, and monk

Fighter too if they are a bow variety

[uncut zenith]

And they can slow them down if you put Repelling Blast on Ray of Frost, so not only can the enemy be pushed away, but they can be slowed down so they have a hard time closing distance

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, and you take spell sniper too be a big menace

Spell sniper is really useful on 60ft spells

[hollow stone]

if you do an Eldritch Knight-Warlock multiclass you can have Mastery in Heavy Crossbows and Longbows and drop a 3 hit combo of EB:R, HCB, and LB to knock them back like 20 feet and reduce their movement by 10 feet

[south tendon]

Spike growths damage is virtually meaningless though. 2d4 is nothing to anything except a low level enemy

[eager marsh]

each eldritch blasts can push 10 ft individually already

[woven flint]

Yeah I'm Artificing...

ARTIFICING MY GODDAMN LIMIT!!!

[eager marsh]

4d4 when pushed 10 ft. Which can happen over and over. There's no save. Enemies have to move through it

[stoic obsidian]

True but sometimes people wanna just not take the standard option

[hollow stone]

i find an immense comedy in denying space, i just wish i could do that without damaging them, because that's even funnier than hurting them. let me cast Misty Step on anybody within 30 feet of me and just forcibly move them somewhere else

[woven flint]

Vortex Warp

[eager marsh]

2d4 damage is per 5 ft moved through the area

[hollow stone]

thank you.

[burnt valley]

btw, can spike growth damage be proc'd multiple times in a turn if grappled?

[eager marsh]

does your party have a Grappler? Watch them drag an enemy back and forth

[woven flint]

It's a Con save though, so, keep that in mind

[old sluice]

Don't forget: It applies to forced movement

[eager marsh]

Yes. every 5ft square does damage

[hollow stone]

aw :(

[woven flint]

Gotta keep in mind the ally takes damage as well

[eager marsh]

I'm the one that said it works for forced movement?

[old sluice]

Yeah I noticed after sorry

[eager marsh]

No they dont. The ally stays on the square adjacent

[south tendon]

And there’s a good chance that’s gonna be 8 damage. Big deal to anything with a decent amount of HP

[eager marsh]

Grappled enemies dont share your space

[old sluice]

Not necessarily. The grappler can stay on the edge

[candid falcon]

anyone know what Fated Flight of the Recluse is?

[woven flint]

Real men run through the spike growth with their enemies for maximum effect

[eager marsh]

8 damage is 8 damage you didn't do before. Quite frankly this is starting to sound annoyingly pessimistic from your side. The spell lasts more than 1 turn and the damage triggers multiple times

The enemy pushed through/into spike growth has to move through it more/again to get out

[woven flint]

Also
Free Damage is free damage

[old sluice]

And it's basically free. You are dealing damage using only your movement speed

[woven flint]

Which spike growth is relatively free damage

[south tendon]

Ugh I suppose.

[woven flint]

Insert Disney princess-esque song about being optimistic

[hollow stone]

i need to figure out a way to geometrically force an enemy to fall victim to Flaming Sphere's damage or get Opportunity Attacked without hurting my ally

[reef tundra]

“Oh no, something was positive”

[stoic obsidian]

I be doing bungee gum strat with my elements monk

[eager marsh]

for someone that was wining they 'only do 1d8 per attack' earlier, I'd have expected a more positive reaction to 8 free damage with teamwork

[knotty pasture]

Ugh, why is no one understanding that Ranger sucks

[woven flint]

IT HAS THE PROPERTIES OF RUBBER AND GUM!!!!!

[south tendon]

You’d be doing what? Is that a spell or something?

[knotty pasture]

/s for the record

[eager marsh]

it's a ranger spell yes

[old sluice]

Depending on a few factors, mainly DM approval, you could also set the spike growth on fire for more fun

[reef tundra]

Team work? In a team game? Outrageous

[south tendon]

I have never seen any spell called bungee gum tbh. What does it do?

[stoic obsidian]

Or gum gum no jet Gatling

[hollow stone]

yea i was thinking that

[woven flint]

Anime Reference not a spell

[eager marsh]

That's not a spell

[south tendon]

Sounds like it sticks an enemy in place

[eager marsh]

It's a longstanding meme line from the hit anime Hunter x Hunter

A character's invented technique is that

[hollow stone]

like could you set a spell like Ensnaring Strike on fire?

[eager marsh]

not normally no

[woven flint]

Hisoka is a freak, but not in the way I like 😔

[stoic obsidian]

I am a lover of anime and love to reference it, but I get not everyone watches it

[old sluice]

I don't know about that. The vines that encircle an ensnared enemy would be a worn or carried object.

[hollow stone]

that sounds like a fun combo regardless, Ensnaring Strike with a Flaming Sphere next to the enemy

[old sluice]

Now the thing about ensnaring strike? If the enemy is flying without hover, they fall to the ground. Prone. And take fall damage

[burnt valley]

We dont talk about that part

[eager marsh]

Oh that works fine. I use grappler to hold enemies in flaming sphere too

[knotty basin]

Moon druid is so fun

[stoic obsidian]

What kind of freak, muscular battle freak?

[eager marsh]

A freak that violates server rules

[reef tundra]

Grappling is much better than many people I’ve seen think

[stoic obsidian]

But yeah hisoka inspire characters shall be barred from the tables

[woven flint]

My favorite amime character is Caimen from Dorohedoro

[knotty basin]

I survived finger of death at level 2 with 4 wild shape HP left

[burnt valley]

Is it possible to do the spike growth combo as a solo player?

[eager marsh]

I focus grappling on a 2024 dragonbirn ascendant dragon monk. I've dragged enemies away from teh wizard, held them in spirit guardians, and flown to drop them

[knotty basin]

And then wildshaped again +30 hp

[stoic obsidian]

Oh yeah that an anime on Netflix never finish it

[eager marsh]

Yes

[woven flint]

Be a moon druid, cast spike growth, wildshape, wait until next turn
Grapple and Run

[reef tundra]

Control over an enemy, almost always makes the enemy attack only you to protect allies, stops them from fleeing and costs them an action if they want to escape through normal means

[woven flint]

@thorny aspen
I see you.

[humble cairn]

Oh i love grappling, especially in 2024.

[thorny aspen]

Wdym

[woven flint]

👁 👁

[old sluice]

Yes but: I don't usually prevent enemies from fleeing. If they want to flee, I just let them go

[lavish flame]

Yo I had a 2024 Ascended Dragon Monk too! I also did a bunch of Grappling! I had the luxury of being able to grapple and deposit enemies into The River Styx (it was a Descent Into Avernus game)

[reef tundra]

Absolutely 2024, being able to grapple as an opportunity attack is just 👌

[woven flint]

I know what you did.

[knotty basin]

Grappling would be so good except it takes an action

[reef tundra]

Laughs in 2024 grappling

[atomic kayak]

"sentinel feat who?"

[thorny aspen]

ME AND MY GANG WILL BE WATCHING STRANGER THINGS TOMMOROW.

[humble cairn]

Not in 2024 it doesn't... wait, it didn't really in 2014, either?

[reef tundra]

You have a point there

[knotty basin]

I’m playing 2014 + that’s only for opportunity attacks

[atomic kayak]

You've always been able to attack + grapple in 2014

[stoic obsidian]

I drag the sentinal with me

[brittle beacon]

I like that knocking 2 people into each other knocks both prone now.

[atomic kayak]

You just weren't able to grapple as an OA in 2014

[knotty basin]

Only with an unarmed strike

[stoic obsidian]

And I deflect their reaction back on them

[humble cairn]

In 2014 it only takes one of your attacks.

[woven flint]

I use my attack action to Grapple
And then I use my extra attack to grapple again, and then I use my flurry of Blows to grapple and then my reaction to grapple.

[atomic kayak]

?

[analog compass]

Hi

[eager marsh]

mmost encounters arent outside so i cant always just fly 100 ft up and drop people. but thats fair anyways

[atomic kayak]

2014 grapple did not use an unarmed strike

[knotty basin]

Oh, wait, I’m forgetting about extra attack

[stoic obsidian]

Seriously monk can get funny against sentinal feat

[woven flint]

Hello, friend

[hollow stone]

i know that for at least a second i conspired my DM into ruling that Grappling is technically an Attack as an unarmed strike variant

[analog compass]

Sorry for my awkwardness I'm not very good at socializing 💔

[reef tundra]

No problem, welcome

[knotty basin]

If you didn’t say that no one would of thought you were awkward

[woven flint]

It's alright, we're happy to have you here :>

[atomic kayak]

Grappling (for players) has always been an attack. A special type of attack, but an attack nonetheless

[analog compass]

I tend to overthink and pre-apologize 😭😭😭

[hollow stone]

i used this tech to lock an enemy in the room with a Purple Worm whos children we recently pissed off

[knotty basin]

real

[stoic obsidian]

You deflect attack the reaction right back on them, now they got hit and you get out Scot free if you …. Roll well

[analog compass]

I just come to learn to play dnd and socialize better

[woven flint]

Real

[hollow stone]

same :D

[reef tundra]

Well #dnd-newcomers is a great place to learn! And this channel is good to socialise on

[analog compass]

Tyy! I was just about to ask for some channels that'd help get me started lol

[south tendon]

Well okay, you all convinced me. I added spike growth to my spell list. Not that I have any way of knocking back enemies but maybe someone else does.

[woven flint]

I've come here to play D&D and murder people
I love murder :3

[analog compass]

Yk what hell yeah

[knotty pasture]

You can just dump spike growth into a chokepoint, the radius is fairly large

[woven flint]

I should make a Berserker Barbarian again at some point 🤔

[stoic obsidian]

I love playing good character that are diabolical killer in combat

[south tendon]

Though all it would take to avoid that is for the DM to give the monster a flying speed

[woven flint]

My last Berserker Barbarian was a Minotaur Lad 🧐

[analog compass]

Idk if this is the place to ask a randomly thought of question, but should I try and make a character before trying to learn to play?? Or should I wait

[woven flint]

Learn to play first for certain

[umbral girder]

Pretty sure that is literally how it works

[reef tundra]

I wanna play one, it would be a Frankenstein’s monster character

[knotty basin]

3 party members died last session

[stoic obsidian]

I playing an Aasimar barbarian lad and I knock a goblin off their steed with shield master feat

[south tendon]

And it does suck I don’t get any of the real proper damage spells a wizard can have lol

[woven flint]

Are you ready to kill Sovis like you killed Jabal?

[analog compass]

Okays!! Ty for the answer /gen

[knotty basin]

There wasn’t even any monsters

[hollow stone]

ah, see nobody at the table knew

[knotty basin]

We were fighting eachother

[woven flint]

No problem, dear friend

[south tendon]

I’ve never understood why they insist on having specialised spell lists. If you can do magic you should is it be able to do any magic

[burnt valley]

Who won

[novel ginkgo]

I was able to drop kick a Bugbear off a ship, (thank Bahamut for High Athletics)

[hollow stone]

i figured it would had it not seemed a little strong to grapple and stab the guy in one action

[burnt valley]

Quickened Eldritch Blast + CME

[knotty pasture]

There's two reasons

[knotty basin]

Well, there was only 4 people involved in the fight (the other two were opening a door). It was me (moon druid) versus 4 of them. I killed 2 players as a brown bear and then died

[woven flint]

Part of me wonders which of my characters might die next sometimes

Slowly looks over at my Shifter Twilight Cleric
He's probably never gonna die, however >->

Dm just can't hit that man's

[knotty pasture]

So spellcasting in dnd is divided into divine magic (primary casted by Clerics, Druids, Paladins) and arcane magic (sorcerers, warlocks, wizards)

[knotty basin]

What about warlocks?

[burnt valley]

Nice, how did that happen tho

[knotty pasture]

Arcane magic

And differentiating them stops classes from being monotone, cuz if everything can learn the same thing, suddenly a lot of classes are basically the same thing with minor gimmicks

[reef tundra]

I was just thinking that they all came from different sources

[woven flint]

There should be a Shadow Wizard subclass
So we can have the Shadow Wizard Money Gang 😔

[burnt valley]

legalize nuclear bombs

[hollow stone]

well, same reason why an electrician and a physicist aren't the same person, both are basically magic and some form of science, but both are inherently different enough to say those are clearly different professions

[reef tundra]

Sometimes I see people on dnd servers talk about what they want changed about dnd and then describe… not dnd.

[knotty basin]

It was the part of curse of strahd where ||the cultists in the death house try to get you sacrifice someone||. I killed someone’s familiar, it didn’t work, and then it spiraled from there

[south tendon]

I know that but what I meant is it’s silly. Though I also very much don’t like spell slots either. I think you should have mana points and can cast any spell of any level as long as you have the mana points to spend and you have learned it.

[knotty pasture]

That too but in Forgotten Realms lore it seems like classes are divided into Warriors (Barbs, Fighters, Monks), Divine (Clerics, Druids, Paladins), Arcane (Sorcerers, Warlocks, Wizards) and Experts (Rogue, Ranger, Bard, Artificer)

[stoic obsidian]

Yup, now I see vampires as weirdos that have to ask permission to go anywhere

[crimson gulch]

a lot of this game is silly, and that is a feature

[knotty pasture]

I also think you've played too much non tabletop rpgs that its making you miss their system over dnd's

[stoic obsidian]

Like apartments

[umbral girder]

Probably

Remember no session today

[woven flint]

Literally same session 💀

[south tendon]

I’ve always thought dnd magic was extremely limited. It feels like a just some after thought bolt on, not a real thought out, planned out part of the game system.

[hollow stone]

this is literally just a different system to achieve a similar effect of spell slots

[woven flint]

That's kind of the point, Mystra SUCKS

[reef tundra]

Well I’m sure other ttrpgs do that

[knotty pasture]

Its not really that limited, well tbh its as limited as the amount of short/long rests available

[crimson gulch]

the limits on magic in did are over 50 years of iteration on the magic system, its very well thought out

[woven flint]

Though, my next character is somewhat associated with one of Mystras chosen 😭

[umbral girder]

That’s because it was

[lean wigeon]

Vagabond fixes this

[umbral girder]

DnD’s magic system is from a novel called Dying Earth

[hollow stone]

you have Mana Points, but different tiers of Mana Points. think of it as bullets, higher levels are higher calibers and spells are different payloads (i.e. Armor Piercing, Incendiary, Tracer, etc.)

[south tendon]

It’s fine and workable but I’m not sure if call it well thought out. At least you don’t need to prepare multiple of the same spells like pathfinder.

[umbral girder]

That’s in the DMG too

[crimson gulch]

yeah that was the way it used to be but 5e made it a bit more freindly

[hollow stone]

the soul is your magazine, and sleeping is reloading

[umbral girder]

Actually that is how DnD did it until 5e

Well 4e didn’t too

[woven flint]

I prefer 5e's Casting, but I prefer Pathfinders martials, personally

[umbral girder]

Because 4e did a lot of everything differently

[south tendon]

Which is utterly silly. Because who would prepare anything but their most powerful damage spell to end a fight in one shot

[woven flint]

Me :3

[knotty pasture]

The most powerful spell is often not the solution

[woven flint]

I like a challenge

[crimson gulch]

loads of folks who know they need to be able to Fly, Open doors, Controll minds, Break spells and so many other utility things

[knotty pasture]

I'd use disintegrate a lot more otherwise

[umbral girder]

Because many enemies could end up immune to that spell

[knotty pasture]

But I think my most used spell against bosses ended up being hold monster

[eager marsh]

legendary resist go br

[hollow stone]

bullets. if you run out of rounds in your primary and missed most of them, switching to your secondary is faster than reloading

[south tendon]

Except you don’t know that in pathfinders system. You have zero knowledge of what you’re going to encounter. So the safest route is to bet on combat and prepare to end it as fast as possible

[crimson gulch]

you dont know whats coming in dnd or pathfinder, unless you do. thats up to the dm to forshadow or forworn or not

[hollow stone]

additionally, tools. not every problem can be solved with a hammer

[umbral girder]

Yeah then you are either useless or end the ability to play the game

That’s why you need to prepare multiple kinds of spells after all.

[south tendon]

I mean I was actually saying that 5e has a better magic system than pathfinder lol. I was giving it a complement lol

[crimson gulch]

i agree that 5e magic is better than pathfinder, i think everything about dnd is better than pathfinder in fact. but the amount of info a player has is not a feature of the system its a feature of how the dm is doing things in either case

[hollow stone]

not all solutions are combat solutions and sometimes the annoying baby is crying because they stained gravy on their shirt and you have Prestidigitation

[knotty pasture]

See this is why Rock Gnomes are cool

Built in Prestidigitation to solve any minor issue

[humble cairn]

The caster that prepares nothing but damage spells is defeated by an out of combat obstacle.

[old sluice]

I think different games have different goals. Pathfinder is better at doing what Pathfinder wants to do than D&D

[hollow stone]

yea!

[knotty pasture]

Funnily enough this is exactly why some martials feel boring to play

[south tendon]

But it’s still a silly system. A mana point system where you need to find a scroll to learn a spell then you can just cast it at will provided you have the mana to do so + potions to keep your mana pool full between long reads would be much better.

[knotty pasture]

Barbs only punch holes in 2014, Fighters are basically the same

You just feel like a npc once you aren't killing things

[old sluice]

Have you considered playing an Elder Scrolls video game instead of a TTRPG?

Or perhaps Exalted.

[crimson gulch]

Are there any ttrpgs that do that? Honest question I only play dnd

[old sluice]

Doesn't exactly work like that in Exalted but it is kind of a mana system.

[hollow stone]

A person who thinks all the time has nothing to think about except thoughts. A person who does all the time has nothing to do except what they have already done. A person who thinks about what they have done cannot think about what they have to do. But a person who thinks about what they are about to do is then able to prepare and execute upon what has to be done.

[old sluice]

My guess is that some TTRPG adaptation of the elder scrolls would work like that

[vast pelican]

An undifferentiated mana pool does nothing different from the spell slot system except enable casters to only do high-level spells.

[south tendon]

I don’t know why it would need to be a video game. Mana points are just a far better system than spell slots.

[old sluice]

Better for what?

Nothing is better in general. Things are better for a purpose.

[hollow stone]

and even then that is just Warlock

[vast pelican]

I'm personally not a fan of a system that encourages people to simply forget a swath of their low-level skills and abilities.

[south tendon]

The only limit on your spells is mana. Which can be fixed with consuming mana potions. Where as will spell slots, once you’ve used your spell slots there gone you can’t cast that spell anymore until a long rest.

[vast pelican]

Which is most mana pool systems.

[crimson gulch]

Nah dnd is good with where it's at, you can go ahead and hombrew these things, or use the optional spell points rule from the 2014 dmg but honestly I strongly feel that 5e runs best as written, and it's the king of ttrpgs.

New games get to fight for second place where pathfinder and dafgerheart are duking it out

[umbral girder]

Spell scrolls

Magic wands and staves, magic tattoos.

[old sluice]

Well technically with a mana system you still use your lower abilities.

To save your mana

[knotty pasture]

Spell slots are cool though

[woven flint]

Spell scrolls, magic items that can cast spells, some subclasses having free Casts of spells, feats that give you a free casting of a spell..

[knotty pasture]

Also bg3 is worth a try, just keep long resting

[crimson gulch]

Yeah, balancing dnd is about depleting resources of the players, if they can allways restore them there is no challenge to the game

[south tendon]

Yorks relying on the dm giving the out.

[umbral girder]

You rely on the DM to give you potions in ttrpgs

[hollow stone]

yea i really like the magic system, aside from having to prepare spells but that's a "me no wanna think >.<" type problem

[viral kraken]

you can craft spell scrolls fwiw

[old sluice]

Yes. Just like everything relies on the DM to keep you alive.

[crimson gulch]

When folks are out of slots, surges, hit dice and such, that's when the game really begins

[vast pelican]

That's already possible, and actually encouraged, with leveled spell slots.

[knotty pasture]

Something something bg3 in a nutshell, just long rest before a boss fight and blast them to oblivion, long rest again and find another boss to do the same

[umbral girder]

Also yeah you can just make a spell scroll

[south tendon]

Of course there’s a challenge. The challenge is the enemies have the exact same features.

[old sluice]

Yes. I agree. Just thought it was a precision worth making

[umbral girder]

That is literally in the PHB

[errant sphinx]

Is there a wiki for the gods of Faerun

[umbral girder]

The Forgotten Realms wiki

[old sluice]

Forgotten realms wiki has what you need

[errant sphinx]

thank you

[crimson gulch]

Nah, enemies in dnd are asymmetrical, they are built differently than player charicters

[woven flint]

I feel like
"Yeah, but you have to rely on the dm" for doing stuff or giving you stuff is a poor argument because running the damn game in general relies on the dm 💀

[umbral girder]

Being in a game relies on the DM too

[old sluice]

And sometimes you do end up in a mirror match

[umbral girder]

Having a character in a game also relies on the DM

[reef tundra]

Here’s an idea - play a different game

[crimson gulch]

The entire experience of the experience of Dnd relies on the dungeonmaster

[woven flint]

Can't argue that something relies on a dm because that's how the game already works

[south tendon]

I suppose this is true. But it doesn’t take away from the actual fact. How many DMs are going to let you long rest every 5 mins to recover your spells for example.

[woven flint]

Also, your dm is a person, just ask them
"Hey, do you think maybe you could give us scrolls and/or Potions as loot on occasion?"

[umbral girder]

Jay you really need to read the core rule books it seems

[hollow stone]

yea having a DM is literally how the game functions, like having a computer to run a videogame

[woven flint]

The worst they can say is

"That'll be 20 dollars."

[hollow stone]

the real question is did you bring a stretcher? because you can also beg the party to carry you while you nap time /j

[old sluice]

None hopefully

[knotty pasture]

If they did the game would get boring way too quickly

[woven flint]

I do feel like people tend to forget that D&D Is a cooperative game and it doesn't hurt to ask the dm if you want something and maybe figure out a way you can get it

[crimson gulch]

None should, that's bad

Running 5 to 8 combats between long rests is the way

[knotty pasture]

Spellcasters would be even more dominant than they already are, Rogues will probably be the biggest losers out of the 13 classes

[south tendon]

Where as it would make sense for a spell caster about to head out of a town to visit a magic shop and buy 100 mana potions.

[reef tundra]

12, Get that artificer out of my class list >:( /j

[hollow stone]

idk i really like Rogue

[woven flint]

Thief Rogue is like one of their only saving graces atm 💀

[crimson gulch]

Magical potions aren't infinitely available

[old sluice]

Which is indeed why D&D does not and should not use a mana system

[woven flint]

Can't wait for a reprint of Swashbuckler Rogue though, I bet they totally wont massacre it!

[knotty pasture]

For a class that doesn't need rests to recharge their resources at the cost of their resources having less impact per use, having all other classes' more powerful abilities be as spammable as Rogue's will indirectly hit Rogue hard

[vast pelican]

Being able to prepare and cast from spell scrolls already greatly extends caster strength. They do not need the ability to outright refresh their mana in a single action.

[hollow stone]

oh, yea, that'd suck

[umbral girder]

None. Even elder scrolls don't do that.

[south tendon]

Don’t understand this comparison to a video game

[errant sphinx]

what are the differences between, Chaotic, Neutral and Lawful Alignments?

[viral kraken]

i don't get it, there are already rules for spell points, how is that different than mana? dnd supports both

[south tendon]

I’m not talking about video games at all

[woven flint]

Chaotic is pretty much "On a whim."
Lawful is "By Order."
And Neutral is "If it benefits me."

[vast pelican]

"If it benefits me" is evil...

[south tendon]

M aware spell points exist. But none of the spells reference them. And even the sheets aren’t made for them + there is zero ability to use them on DnDBeyond

[woven flint]

It can be either!

Neutrals tend to do things that are best for themselves too.

A Neutral characters best interest is themselves, typically

[umbral girder]

You know D&D Beyond was developed by a non-D&D team right?

[south tendon]

So the entire variant system might as well not exist

[viral kraken]

you can do spell points with dicecloud. if you can you should avoid ddb and roll20 as they are walled gardens anyway

[umbral girder]

Like it was not an official thing until a couple years ago.

[hollow stone]

no no, that's if it only benefits you, that is evil, but if other people just happen to be convenienced its neutral, and if other people are being convenienced and that's how it benefits you then it's good

[errant sphinx]

can it be more flexible would could one not change throughout a life of a char?

[woven flint]

It can, I just.. simplified it

[south tendon]

I mean sure there are tables that tell you what number of points to use, but they make it extremely difficult to use the variant system. They don’t even make sheets to suppprt it and there is zero automation for it

[woven flint]

Alignment can change, but it generally shouldn't be put on a pedestal in importance

[slender mason]

I think you could tweak it to

"if it benefits me or at least doesn't hinder me"

like the benefit has to at least match the risk

[viral kraken]

also does ddb really not let you make homebrew automations like dicecloud does?

[south tendon]

Using it would require months and months of work to rewrite all the spells before I could run a game. Even then, there would be no automation built it to auto deplete and restore those points

[viral kraken]

is that to say ddb does not let you make homebrew automations like dicecloud?

[woven flint]

"You're making the mother of all Omelets here, Jack, you can't fret over every egg!"

[hollow stone]

i mean benefit is a pretty broad term, even just feeling good is a technical benefit of doing a thing, which is what i was measuring

[south tendon]

Ugh there’s not even a space in the character sheet for spell points. So how’s it going to work

[lean wigeon]

Vagabond, sort of. You learn a spell effect, and then you spend mana to add effects to that spell effect. So if I, a smelly frail wizard, know Erupt, I can spend 3 mana to make it do 3d6 damage, as well as 2 more mana to make it a 15 ft sphere, and 1 more mana for the spell effect (create difficult terrain), for a total of 6 mana spent

[viral kraken]

that's what i am asking, does ddb really lack basic capabilities like that?

[reef tundra]

It lacks a lot of basic capabilities

[woven flint]

I think Spell Slots are good as they keep the games balance way more in check than it would if you were just able to restore mana points whenever the hell you want, but that's just my opinion lol

[south tendon]

Everywhere does because there is no space on the character sheet.

[hollow stone]

tho someone who doesn't do something because they consider the risk too high is a third dimension of measure on alignment, i'd have to call sloth

[viral kraken]

again dicecloud does not lack them

[woven flint]

Could just call it

Apathy

[south tendon]

Then they are using their own custom character sheets because it doesn’t exist on any official sheet

[reef tundra]

I’ll say it again, Jay, it sounds like you either haven’t played the game or wanna play a different game

[hollow stone]

that too, yea

[viral kraken]

it is a sheet, yes, and fully customizable

[analog compass]

Just powered on my old ass ps4 and this thing sounds like it's gonna blow up 😭

[old sluice]

Have you ever heard of blank paper and pens?

[south tendon]

Why would I play with blank paper? Lol.

[stoic obsidian]

I wonder what be a cool warlock subclass to use pact of the blade with (2024)

[viral kraken]

might just need the dust cleaned out?

[old sluice]

Use paper and pen to track your spell points.

[hollow stone]

i would like to implement this dimension for more character depth, but you can already print the modern alignment chart on a paper, and you simply cannot print the alignment cube

[slender mason]

Fey imo

[old sluice]

Next to your character sheet.

[south tendon]

I don’t play this game to go to school and perform maths. It’s supposed to happen automatically

[woven flint]

Archfey, GOO, Undead... a few others

[analog compass]

It always sounded like that even after it was cleaned 💔 It's just years old

[slender mason]

jump around and slash

[old sluice]

Perform maths?... Simple substractions are "performing math" to you?

[stoic obsidian]

Goo?

[hollow stone]

i mean i'm planning a Pact Of The Blade rn who's gonna be a Celestial

[stuck shuttle]

#non-dnd-topics but yeah clean the fans again and replace the thermal paste

[slender mason]

TTRPGs are like 90% Maths and English in disguise

[hollow stone]

Great Old One

[stoic obsidian]

Oh the tentacle warlock

[old sluice]

I'm sorry Jay... I just think TTRPGs in general are simply not for you. You claim to lack the mathematical skills to perform substractions.

[south tendon]

This is somewhat similar to what I said yesterday. We live in the 21st century. And the game system should be fully automated by this point. We don’t live in the 70s when paper was all their was

[stoic obsidian]

Or is that fathomless

[marble lion]

fathomless

[slender mason]

you can half the time just do addition too

add up until you reach your maximum

[knotty pasture]

There's bg3 right there if you want something to do it for you

[stoic obsidian]

Corrected one sec late

[reef tundra]

Damn, are you sure you’re in the right place?

[south tendon]

That is not dnd that is fake dnd

[rugged hawk]

Good suggestion: either make popcorn when Jay's around, or just mute him, because I haven't seen anything useful in the last few days of his nattering.

[hollow stone]

i know i've conceived a combo of Armor Of Shadows + Pact Of The Blade that would allow you to play someone who calls themselves an Eldritch Knight who has no levels in Fighter at all

[old sluice]

Yeah this just confirms what I was thinking. You do not have the abilities required to play TTRPGs.

[knotty pasture]

Eh? Its 5e homebrewed dnd

[reef tundra]

You’re right

[knotty pasture]

But its still dnd, it also solves your spell slot issue

[old sluice]

Those abilities being... Performing six-years old level mathematics.

[knotty pasture]

Cuz you can spam long rests after playing for 3 hours for the rest of the game

[woven flint]

This game in of itself came from Pen and paper

[hollow stone]

GOO would probably best fit the titleage of Eldritch

[atomic kayak]

The game is definitely not designed to "do it for you" - dndbeyond is not the game

[stoic obsidian]

Did you know that by taking a level in fighter you can get proficiency with armor,shields, and weapon masteries

[marble lion]

ok i will say that spell slots should probably have some sort of marker on any sheet

[reef tundra]

This is going nowhere.
So, anybody got opinions of the new exotic species?

[umbral girder]

Dude does not know what the TT part of TTRPG stands for

[atomic kayak]

Thats like saying that you can't idk, play poker in person just because you could play it on a computer

[rugged hawk]

Okay, cool, but did you know that V- 👀

[knotty pasture]

I am currently doing some very rogue things as a Ranger in bg3 its fun

Its very in character

[woven flint]

Did you know:

I'm in your walls.

[reef tundra]

I’m very torn about Ranger in bg3, but I do like a lot of its abilities and I know they couldn’t have done much else considering what they had to work with back then

[woven flint]

Kinda hate majority of them cuz they feel lazy lol

[knotty pasture]

Ranger got homebrewed most baseline but I do think the homebrew stuff isn't quite bad

[south tendon]

Be never played their video games tbh. Because I consider them to not be real. They didn’t stick to the 5e rules. They invented a bunch of stuff that doesn’t exist in the 5e system

[reef tundra]

Hmmm, I kinda see your point, having looked through them.

[stoic obsidian]

V-?

[south tendon]

From what I’ve heard of course.

[woven flint]

Boggart is literally just 2014 Goblin

[knotty pasture]

Tbh you yourself were inventing the whole spell slot system from scratch right now

[rugged hawk]

🐟

[reef tundra]

I did think that. It was a strange choice

[knotty pasture]

Takes one to know one?

[hollow stone]

Rogue and Ranger are so thematically close and multiclassing them isn't a bad idea, i really like it at least

[atomic kayak]

?

[slender mason]

you'll never believe what 5e did to 4e

[knotty pasture]

Free resistances, a free spell and some flavor

[stoic obsidian]

Oh Vinnath, nope

[reef tundra]

Just trying to change the topic

[knotty pasture]

Its more easy to approach

[woven flint]

And Flamekin is just Fire Genasi
And
Rimekin is just cold fire genasi 😔

[viral kraken]

speaking of changing topics, favorite use of Contingency?

[reef tundra]

Although, I do quite like the dhampir and changeling, but that’s because I already liked them

[knotty pasture]

Rogue got the short end of the stick in bg3 sadly, what with a lot of utility day to day actions getting automated so Rogue can't run around doing as much out of combat stuff as he could

But he still rocks in any situation where he needs to roll dice to pass checks

[woven flint]

I like the Lorwyn Changeling, but that's about it from those books

[stoic obsidian]

I am a silly little goober

[reef tundra]

Same

[umbral girder]

Counterspell a PWK

[old sluice]

Teleportation circle to my base if I am down for twelve seconds is a classic.

[rugged hawk]

Dhampir makes me sad because it's the only option for undead-type. Not everything has to be a vampire, dammit.

[umbral girder]

Bro got removed form the adventure

[woven flint]

Lorwyn Changeling is literally just like me fr
Points at its art

[reef tundra]

Saaame

[stoic obsidian]

Time for third party books, sad reality Tis is

[woven flint]

I was the Lorwyn Changeling all along...

[viral kraken]

sounds fun, is there someone at base with a potion or healing for you?

[woven flint]

Oh! I also like that new Playable Warforged is a Construct

[rugged hawk]

Or just ressurect the Necropolitan from Libris Mortis.

[woven flint]

We out here robot maxxing

[old sluice]

Unseen servant!

[viral kraken]

nice

[knotty pasture]

Bruh I made sure the npcs were gone before snatching some weapons and suddenly he ran back to me calling me a thief, paying him 50gp as a bribe didn't help either...

[hollow stone]

oh they patched that? or is this still Bald Gat 3?

[old sluice]

Or a familiar

[south tendon]

Tbh though I’ll keep playing the game as it is. Because if I want to play it I’ve got not choice but to play with what they’ve made lol. So anything I said about “oh this would be better” or “there should be more automation” is moot, because wizards make the game they want and if I wanna play it that’s the game I gotta play.

[woven flint]

I simultaneously love and hate the changes to Artificer

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh I need to break my melee brain, I need to play a regular spellcaster

[woven flint]

Brother, I'm talking about the Books, not BG3 😭

[knotty pasture]

Sorcerers are fun

You only need a few spells to conquer the world

[woven flint]

Play a War Cleric
Just heal and Bonk

[stoic obsidian]

I play one once, ……

[reef tundra]

You don’t have to play it, you’re just making yourself and others miserable.

[hollow stone]

sister >.<
but yea sick cause somebody else was shaving their gate bald or whatever they did 3 of those over so i wasn't sure

[reef tundra]

Oki back to the topic.

[woven flint]

Oh, I apologize!

Sister 🧐

[stoic obsidian]

Star Druid, dancer/whisper bard

[reef tundra]

May I join in the sisterhood?

[woven flint]

Can I be an honorary sister even though I'm a pretty masculine dude?

[viral kraken]

well probably just themselves at this point since discord has good self-moderation tools

[south tendon]

Well more to the point I want to play it so I do have to play it as it is. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t irritate me lol but I’ll keep playing it because there’s no other d&d except the one that’s been made lol.

[viral kraken]

probably just barking in the dark by now

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh I want to play a full campaign as a spellcaster, because I tried but never fully completed

[hollow stone]

yea sure i hereby knight thee as woman

[knotty pasture]

Insert its true but she shouldn't say it meme here

[woven flint]

LETS GOOOO

[atomic kayak]

I moreso meant which are you referring to

[reef tundra]

Oh, just the ones that came out in the new books, like heroes of Faerun, Astarion’s book, etc

[woven flint]

I am now at Gender equilibrium

[hollow stone]

ofc!!!

[reef tundra]

Yayyy! I’ll be the tank for the sisterhood

[woven flint]

A Man knighted as a Sister 😎

[reef tundra]

Welcome to the sisterhood, sister

[old sluice]

Let's see... Can I think of another creative use of contingency?

[woven flint]

Thank you, Sister

[old sluice]

Haste is always nice. Death ward too.

[reef tundra]

Hmm, how about the new subclasses? I quite like the new winter Walker Ranger

[reef tundra]

You’re right

[woven flint]

I can't wait for Hollow Warden Ranger.

[reef tundra]

Oooh yes, haste is always helpful

[old sluice]

Contingency to mind blank me if I get in a zone of truth?

[lyric idol]

Cantrip swapping on Artificer? Interesting.

[reef tundra]

Same. I needed another darker Ranger

[viral kraken]

that's fun

[stoic obsidian]

Or you can play a different game online, instead of complaining in here, no one wanna hear it

[woven flint]

I might revisit an old character of mine when Hollow Warden comes out

I've shown him a few times on the server

[hollow stone]

yea, i vibe with inherently edgy classes

[rugged hawk]

[old sluice]

Well to be fair I think I have better tricks to fool a zone of truth

[viral kraken]

contingency mind blank on me saying "to be perfectly honest" lol

[stoic obsidian]

Can I have some

[woven flint]

Oh, best believe when Reanimator Arrificer comes out, nobodies corpse is gonna be safe from me

[stoic obsidian]

I give you some pizza rolls

[shy stirrup]

It's great to have choice but...
New Player: Oh, so now I get to choose a subclass! Nice!
DM: Yes, choose one of these 300 subclasses
New Player: 😭

[rugged hawk]

No, you haven't given Jay some falling rocks yet.

[hollow stone]

Gloomstalkers and Rogues are absolutely my vibe and it's really weird that DND sniffed out the exact kind of class i'd wanna play thematically and gave it the exact buttons i'd wanna play mechanically

[lyric idol]

Use Trickery Domain and dont even enter the circle in the first place

[stoic obsidian]

I did give him pop rocks of truth tho

[buoyant oar]

Interesting. I hadn't seen ua that labeled Kalahstar PCs as Aberrations

[woven flint]

Just don't talk in Zone of Truth or Avoid the question all together

[rugged hawk]

Jay's allergic to truth, so that doesn't help

[hollow stone]

i like being a bandit and i like accessing/creating portals and somehow the DND devs sniffed that out and built a class that is both of those things

[woven flint]

I hope they reprint Horizon Walker Ranger

[viral kraken]

i like rogue, tho with bounded accuracy i feel like expertise is pretty strong, perhaps stronger than i'd like

[buoyant oar]

Death to reprints. New ideas better

[rugged hawk]

Now with Roundhouse Kick as a bonus action!

[woven flint]

I had an idea for a Horizon Walker Ranger Minotaur lad who lived in an Extra Planar Maze 😎

[atomic kayak]

(we never got them in UA)

[south tendon]

What makes you like them so much? I’m honestly curious.

[woven flint]

I just think they're neat!

[south tendon]

Oh I guess that’s fair I suppose.

[rugged hawk]

Marvel and DC will remember this. (-10)

[reef tundra]

Okay okay… while I am the artificer slanderer and will fight them forever… I am quite excited for the reanimator

[stoic obsidian]

Tbh Jay you practically have falling black rocks on yourself by complaining about dnd, and making you dislike it more, get a rock bonk your head a few times to clear it and appreciate the nice things of dnd

[woven flint]

Also, let's be fair, Extra Planar Ranger is definitely a vibe needed to fill out the Ranger spectrum

[south tendon]

I usually play fighters because they’re easy to play lol. Nothing much to remember with them

[stuck saddle]

Where’s the new artifcer book bruh

[shy stirrup]

Insert class stereotype here