#legends-of-greyhawk

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somber reef
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It's hard for me to compare. I never played AL when it was only some 30-odd adventures.

normal phoenix
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I meant the slower levelling pace

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but thats fair too AL hasnt been content limited for a long long time

somber reef
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Right, but if there's only T1 content, you never feel like you want to level.

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Versus seeing T3 games happening, where you want to get a character up to join in that.

normal phoenix
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True just a few T2 things now

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couple years from t3 I think

somber reef
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Yeah, whuff.

normal phoenix
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thats another some people love it some people hate it, curious to see how it shakes out

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I do suspect somebody will hit 11 in 2026

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but then seriously not have a game in 2027 😄

somber reef
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Couldn't bear to spend that long without Extra Attack.

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Just the one attack, then end turn. yay

normal phoenix
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turns at least go faster

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Nobody has said anything, and I don't know anything, but just mechanically, at some point, some method of new players playing at level 5 will have to happen

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You can't have the hot new content at Gencon for instance, be tier 2, if players that have never played before cant play it... right?

somber reef
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Being able to start at L5 has been a good change to AL, imo.

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For that very reason.

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Kinda' surprised with it being a convention-focused system that they keep levelling so restricted.

normal phoenix
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well, it is only in Beta

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And lurkers around here not withstanding, there arent a lot of tier 2s in the wild

somber reef
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If that's not an excuse for changing the loot system, it's not an excuse for changing the levelling system.

icy girder
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Why change either? There's a whole other OP for hyperspeed.

normal phoenix
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Oh I just meant more -- tier two doesnt exist yet, so hard to say how restricted it is

somber reef
normal phoenix
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I just mean more, maybe "start at 5th" will be an option, we just don't know yet

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They've been pretty clear that "magic items are working as intended" Im not sure we've seen anything as definitive about starting at 5th

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I don't expect a change to the pace of levelling naturally though

somber reef
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Could've sworn I saw the Baldman saying something pretty definitive about "You can't play T2 without playing 10 T1 adventures."

icy girder
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it took a long time for "Skip T1" to hit AL, I'd hope that we get at least that much time before LoG gets watered down, but... all we can really do is guess at this point.

normal phoenix
somber reef
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Conventrion-centric is a different beast.

harsh wraith
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it is what it is. It took AL YEARS to get to what it is and how many seasons. For now, let's enjoy LoG during its baby steps.

normal phoenix
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Yeah I personally like the slower pace, but I also 100% totally get starting at 3rd or 5th being somepeoples preference

harsh wraith
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literal season 1.

normal phoenix
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heck even the DMG says "start at 3rd unless your players are new" more or less

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not faulting anybody for wanting to start a bit higher

harsh wraith
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people want power. I imagine that was the same during AL season 1

normal phoenix
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All I remember from season 1 was hoping nobody else wanted the item I wanted

somber reef
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That's why I said it's hard for me to compare; I started AL in S9 when there was tons of content and some rules iterations.

harsh wraith
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that's the Living City, we all roll off for the cert mentality. happydoge

normal phoenix
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LG had the everybody can buy it but you have to get it within X sessions iirc

icy girder
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I mean... it was similar for the first seven seasons, even. AL was more like LoG than Modern AL for a long time. Then we got hyperspeed leveling, item vaulting, and lost ongoing stories. It really is a completely different system at this point, just with a huge content library from Ye Olden Tymes.

normal phoenix
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I think AL is the only one I played much of where it was just like a home game in that you couldnt all walk away with the item

harsh wraith
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I still recall starting Living City and acquired 3 certed magic items.. was level 2 and the party of level 4s. They were like... go ahead and check for traps. Fireball. A good friend, who is now deceased, was like, "damn shame. Let's see what you got." And then you loot the dead PC of their certs.

normal phoenix
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Heh

harsh wraith
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that was the past.

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we have now a better system

icy girder
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Experience based leveling! You think LoG is slow, we felt incredible hitting T2 in AL! Even in Season 5, when we had five full seasons and more CCC than you could ever reasonably play!

normal phoenix
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or just D&D 😄

harsh wraith
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LG was a struggle also going up in levels and getting gear

somber reef
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At least LoG doesn't reduce your MIL for a whole Tier if you die. 😆

normal phoenix
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true that

icy girder
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LG is before my time as far as OP goes, but I've certainly heard tales.

normal phoenix
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I also want different things in different context.

I've been getting my Dad and Sister into 5e... I cannot imagine trying to start them at 5

harsh wraith
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I remember the entire party in LG fighting a wererat and no one had magic weapons or silver. And the thing was immune to mundane weapons. And if you acquired lycanthropy you were retired. Nasty stuff

somber reef
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Newbie D&D players should never try to play level 5.

normal phoenix
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But when its my character #10 I don't love starting at level 1 again... which thankfully my DM stack prevents

harsh wraith
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that was Core 1 River of Blood

normal phoenix
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In My ideal world we have some sort of faster tracker for people that just want to get there

harsh wraith
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I reckon LG will be like AL. Expect slow progression, no magic vaults, etc. Until season 8-9.

normal phoenix
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but for me, that doesnt have to be day 1 functionality

harsh wraith
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Orgs change all the time and it may change in the future.

normal phoenix
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Like I said upthread, when we get to where all the new content at cons is tier 2... you have to have a way for new players to play (imo)

icy girder
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Why would ALL of the new content be T2, though?

normal phoenix
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I bet we have some solution to that in 2026

icy girder
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T2 content didn't replace T1 in AL, I'm not sure why we'd expect it to in LoG.

normal phoenix
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Lets use gencon as an example

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lets assume like normal BMG brings 3 mods and a special that are new

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thats probably mostly tier 2 this year right?

icy girder
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that's a pretty big "probably"

harsh wraith
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fun fact, once LoG goes homeplay. You can run side games tier 1s for those new players at the convention.

normal phoenix
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also true

somber reef
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I could see a situation where the only new content at a con is T2, but you would still see repeated T1 content at that convention.

harsh wraith
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so it be BMG brings 3 mods and a special; and side games.

normal phoenix
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And Im pretty sure we have heard the next batch of DoG is tier 2

harsh wraith
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and hopefully Iuzual Suspects can pick up all those other LoG content that isn't associated with BMG, but allows everyone to play online during those events. And get sponsorship. With cats and dogs raining from the sky.

normal phoenix
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😄

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WCAG runs a mean online con too with Wild Coast

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and I am sure Bandit Kingdoms soon enough

harsh wraith
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I love WCAG but their start times clashes with my work hours. They start literally when I leave work and start again when I have to go to work.

errant iron
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I just can't get my brain to work with the way they do the events, too unknown and last minute to not know who I'm playing with

harsh wraith
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If they can do a Red Carpet experience, like BMG, that would be super great.

normal phoenix
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I hope they move to a more 24 hours a day con

harsh wraith
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I don't think anyone wants to do that. happydoge

normal phoenix
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hahaha we do 😄

errant iron
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having to buy a ticket not knowing the DM and then you do nothing until you get another email to lead you to a different site and only there can you find your DM but don't try and communicate with them until 20 minutes before the game because it'll be deleted

harsh wraith
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just gotta adjust to their style.

normal phoenix
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This last time they opened up some forums that persisted

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they are taking feedback and adjuting

harsh wraith
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that's great

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I also love the fact that WCAG does LoG AND AL.

normal phoenix
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Iuzual certainly just looked at BMG and said yep lets do pretty much that

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but that doesnt mean its the only valid way to run a show 🙂

errant iron
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nice to hear they're adjusting, last I looked in it was pretty defensive about the way they choose to run things online exactly like they do irl

ancient cosmos
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I don’t overly mind the not knowing everything until shortly before. But I did feel like 20 minutes was too little time with the prep needed for online and technical issues that can happen.

harsh wraith
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yeah, it should be one hour.

normal phoenix
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I agree with you there JT, its fine for seasoned online players that have done it abillion times

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One of my many hats is Roll20 helper outer for people than need extra time

somber reef
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Are you getting the R20 link with just 20 minutes to the game?

normal phoenix
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and yeah 20 minutes is not enough for folks... I can say specific to log, if you need extra time, you can pop a ticket in

normal phoenix
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ish

ancient cosmos
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Even as a seasoned person, 15-20 minutes can be tight, particularly if i have something else right before it, so i really needed to do it ahead of time.

errant iron
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but only if you get the email with a link to a different website it's on

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separate to TTE

normal phoenix
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last time iirc

you get access to the con section about 24 hours before
the con section has a link to the airtable where your table is with the roll20 info
about an hour before your game you get access to the text channel for your game

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now, is everybody as plugged in as I am following all that? prolly not

errant iron
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but you get told off for posting there

normal phoenix
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they conceptualize it like its a physical con and you are walking to your table at game time

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you wouldnt be hanging out at the table 24 hours before

ancient cosmos
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The air table also felt like an extra step. Tabletop and discord should be enough to get the needed info. I was able to figure it out, but it seemed to add confusion and steps to the process.

ancient cosmos
normal phoenix
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less is more when it comes to steps to get set up

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as long as the air table is easy to find and reference, which for the last two it was

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the first time was a little rough, but they heard and adjusted

harsh wraith
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I think they, and any other org, gets defensive when there is a heated exchange or anything negative occurs in the discord channel. Better to have it thru DMs.

normal phoenix
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objectively, I dont think its much more complicated than a whole seperate discord

harsh wraith
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avoids getting being told off

normal phoenix
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we are just way more used to the second discord

harsh wraith
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and them being defensive

errant iron
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I gave up after the first time tbh, I figured it wasn't the kind of con setup for me

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hoping I'll get the opportunity to play the WC mods sometime

normal phoenix
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I promise Im not paid to advertize lol, but I'd give them another shot

harsh wraith
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when it goes homeplay, it be on Iuzual. 😉

normal phoenix
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maybe 😄

harsh wraith
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also, are you bringing shirts to WF?

icy girder
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As soon as it's available, I'll run whatever mod you want as long as you've got players. 100% no AI guaranteed :P

normal phoenix
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I certainly long for being able to pop into this chat and say "who wants to play"

normal phoenix
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I have a couple test runs but not enough yet

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And the zine is not going to be ready either

icy girder
normal phoenix
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but soon ™

normal phoenix
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😄

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I'll bring napkins and buy you a coffee

harsh wraith
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I'll be at the hotel bar, drinking, trying not to freeze.

icy girder
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(this might be the week where I finally overbook myself into "no more dice right now, only sleep" territory)

normal phoenix
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yeah Im looking at my schedule going "really?"

harsh wraith
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it doesn't look too bad. 3 games per day.

normal phoenix
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thats true

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it is over 5 days

harsh wraith
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games start at 9 AM? So that's plenty of time to get breakfast and enjoy.

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one breaks inbetween to get a snack or lunch.

normal phoenix
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Dave threatened my life when I said "Midnight Madness"

harsh wraith
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HA

normal phoenix
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it was a more a glare delivered through the internet, but I felt threatened 😄

icy girder
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Fun Fact: the first PAX was only two days long, but never closed.

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...anyway, they never did that again.

harsh wraith
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having played many Midnight Madness games. All those DMs just want to end the game. They're doing it to earn their slots for a free hotel room/badge.

normal phoenix
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hahaha I remember gencons back in the day, running lg all day, then retiring to the hotel room to speed through more

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Yeah theres basically no way to do midnight madness without dms falling asleep in their AM games by the end

icy girder
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Midnight Madness hours would be so much easier for me. Up past midnight? EZ. Awake and rolling dice at 9am? Aw beans.

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but I recognize that my hours are exceptionally stupid

normal phoenix
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speaking of... arent you running a game in 9 minutes

icy girder
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(actively setting up tokens as we speak)

normal phoenix
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I just played hommlet with my dad, sister, and son

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they rolled ||Eversmoking bottle, ring of fire resist, ever smoking bottle||

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pretty hot dice on those random items

harsh wraith
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I remembered rolling the || ring of fire resistance, but kept the ring of swimming.||

normal phoenix
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My best roll was ||Dagger of Venom|| but it was on the wrong character

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should be a new table for WF too 😄

harsh wraith
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with all this talk of ogres, I'm really hoping for a heavy weapon featured item drop

normal phoenix
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preach

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I get it though, great weapons are not broadly useful the way that finesse weapons are

azure violet
ancient cosmos
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Yup, did that for a single table. It worked well.

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Looking forward to their next event I can make.

fathom rune
thorn yacht
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This is sort of the point: AL is designed for a certain audience and LoG is being designed for another

rotund crater
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just for reference: I take it that this applies to future modules, existing ones are not being updated?

rancid sage
wintry trellis
hushed jay
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Both AL and LoG have rules that can be improved, so discussing potential improvements seems reasonable. As LoG is still in beta it may be an ideal time for such discussions.

icy girder
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Always! No OP system will ever be perfect, because things will always be shifting.

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Please keep LoG as far away from AL rules as possible. No warpspeed leveling. No limitless piles of items. Actual ongoing plotlines. I've played AL for a long while, and while I play it a whole lot less after the storylines stopped, I still like having an excuse to bust out favorite characters again. But it's also great to be invested in the long term again. To meet new adventurers and travel with familiar friends and to grow alongside each other.

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Play both.

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and hey, if there's anything that AL Avids and LoG Lovers can agree on (probably???): no treasure points

harsh wraith
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how many LoG games have you tried out and which one did you liked so far?

ancient cosmos
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Yes, there are things in LoG rules, that I would adjust if it was solely up to me — it isn’t. The things I would change are more on the fringes, not some of the core changes between AL and LoG that are changes because of the issues in AL. And none of it currently stops me from enjoying LoG and thinking the rules are very good as a whole. For example:

  1. I would allow Custom Backgrounds
  2. I would disallow firearms
  3. I would do something about uncommon potions /scrolls. Already discussed as an oversight, but as we get to higher tiers, this potentially involves more items.
    There may be other small adjustments that might be desired/needed as we get into T2. But it is early on that part as no one has experienced it yet.
rancid sage
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Pretty sure those 3 things are generally the agreed upon wishes, JT lol. Well except maybe firearms since some ppl do like them, if only a few

normal phoenix
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Yeah 100% custom backgrounds or even just confirmation that “if you get theives tools prof twice pick a different tool”

Firearms imo are mostly a theoretical issue. They are expensive, won’t be supported with loot (probably) and enough people seem to dislike them it’ll steer most people clear

No notes on “doing something about uncommon potions”

rancid sage
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Plus, there are no real feats the benefit firearms. You can use a crossbow and pick feats that help way more.

normal phoenix
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The pistol has a use mechanically in the same sort of place as a hand axe in a melee character

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I shoot the pistol and then go rapier is thematic and works well. But not so well that I feel it’s worth the trade off

somber reef
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Artificers are most able to obtain a firearm.

harsh wraith
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artificer/battle master fighter with sharpshooter.

azure violet
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I would like some campaign time to happen between adventures, need not be the possibility to spend ten days between adventures as in Adventurers League.
It could be " a possibility to craft", not limited in time.
It might be connected to an adventure, as in" after playing any Domain of Greyhawk, there is a possibility to..".
It might be connected to progress, such as leveling up, or something like once every month or after each con or after three games played/DM:ed or even some kind of event "crafting week"

hushed jay
# harsh wraith what improvements do you recommend?

As some other people here have mentioned, Custom Backgrounds in LoG would be a nice inclusion. Also, it might be nice to have specific Backgrounds crafted for LoG that have some additional benefit (this could be a Mark of Prestige, a feature like the backgrounds from the 2014 Backgrounds, or something more mechanical) to convince more people to use the LoG specific Backgrounds over the standard/custom options.
Allowing more character options would be nice. I see the logic with only using options starting with the 2024 rules, but I am not enchanted with the curated list of current options. Letting players pick from a more complete list would be my preference. I am no Greyhawk expert, but a setting that seems to include spells created by players in a home game that has a restricted spell list seems odd.

hushed jay
# harsh wraith what improvements do you recommend?

I think the treasure rules would be better with something like vaulting. This might mean a higher cost due to printed certificates, but it may be well received as a tangible benefit that more people could enjoy. I have heard some people mention a desire to “make choices matter” regarding magic item selection, but I am not sure that the current choices made regarding magic items is a rule that provides a net benefit to the current and expected audience. I do think having the ability to shape the ongoing narrative through the choices made at conventions is pretty great. If I had to pick, I would emphasize choices that help shape the ongoing narrative rather than choices made regarding magic items.
I would also adjust the magic item limit rules. As crafting and Bastions seem to be core to the 2024 rules, perhaps allowing crafted items avoid being counted towards the limits would be good.

hushed jay
# harsh wraith what improvements do you recommend?

Having the option to start a character at a higher level would be nice too.
Perhaps modifying the rules regarding declining level advancement and collecting rewards would be good. Are there issues with people declining level advancement and also gaining rewards that are especially concerning?

hushed jay
# harsh wraith what improvements do you recommend?

As a general fix to the 2024 rules, allowing the choice of a different proficiency of the same kind if a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources would be nice. This is a bit larger than just a LoG fix, but hopefully the people at WotC in charge of such things hear about this and decide to act.

hushed jay
normal phoenix
normal phoenix
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Though crafting and bastions probably would be in excess of the number of items found so it is fair that if crafted items come in that a discussion on a different limit for them be had by T.P.T.B.

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Last we heard about bastions is they might arrive in some limited fashion but we don’t really know if they will or how they will work

ancient cosmos
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I don’t think crafting or Bastions (as they exist in the DMG) are designed for or fit well with OP. There are too many issues that arise and extra rules needed for just those things.

ancient cosmos
somber reef
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It's also a mechanics rule, not an OP rule, and OPs tend not to just make up mechanics like that.

errant iron
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AL made up a rule to allow taking non-basic languages at character Creation if it is related to your origin

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This is a similar case where if it wasn't OP clearly a DM could just say "oh you get thieves tools proficiency from being a rogue and your bg? Yeah just pick a different tool for your background that's fine" in the same way they could be like "oh yeah, your character who's from the feywild can speak sylvan as one of their languages, makes sense"

somber reef
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I forgot about that languages thing. That was kinda surprising they did that.

rancid sage
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Then you are back to where you started and nothing has improved. Magic items are back to a dime a dozen, in a low magic setting

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And while I've never played AL, I have heard soooo many stories of players showing up a table thking they'll bring a fun pwerful item, only for every player at the table tell them, oh I have 7 of those - the example was a Staff of Power or the like.

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Current, the adventures are not about the magic items, they are about the story. The items are just a reward for goign through said story. And deciding what to keep, that is a choice that matters just as much as choices overall for OP storyline imo.

normal phoenix
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I think its largely about the "feels bad" that comes from "oh hey you find this really cool magic item, but you can't keep in unless you get rid of your other cool magic item" and "what if I pick the wrong one" with a side of "dangit I have swapped magic items 6 times in the last 6 adventures and have accordingly got 0gp"

if you like the idea of being able to full rebuild, the limit on magic items is the biggest speed bump

rancid sage
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Sure, I can understand that, but still, you the player, made a choice.

normal phoenix
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Not that Im in favor of it, but I do understand

rancid sage
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No one said, you have to pick the featured item. You made the choice to take the cool featured item and not get gold. You choice has a consequence. While I know this is a game and not life, there is no save button in D&D either. You don't get to go back and change your choices in any D&D adventure I've ever played, why should the choice of rewards be different?

harsh wraith
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but I do that all the time in BG3

normal phoenix
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some folks like the way AL, some people don't

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the folks that like AL magic items understandably want LoG to be the same

harsh wraith
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just curious, vaunting was not allowed in early AL?

ancient cosmos
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It's partly people want an item every adventure. It's partly they want everything. It's partly they just don't want to make choices (and maybe not even acknowledge it).

But it leads to issues, in AL, it isn't hard for someone to basically have all items at this point because of vaults and multiple characters. It leads to things like fine tuning/optimizing for the adventure instead of making do with what you have. It leads to people rebuilding into entirely different things each adventure . . . because they have all the items.

normal phoenix
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if you found a necklace of prayer beads, a single character could take it, not one copy for everybody

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better hope nobody else wants the thing you want 😄

harsh wraith
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well, that's standard D&D. (even back in the day)

ancient cosmos
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Vaults have only been in AL for about 4 years. It has very much changed things. Earlier AL used different rules over time

normal phoenix
ancient cosmos
normal phoenix
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Yeah I think the current LoG item system is pretty good at making sure everybody gets a fair shake at an item they want, and keeping the items in line with DMG expectations

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I did have some small amount of stress that I might have to make a hard decision around a magic item, but im fairly certain that is a my weird issues thing and not a problem witht he system

ancient cosmos
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While not a vaulting issue, it was a S8 treasure/evergreen list issue. Season 8's T3 and T4 tables were interesting with everyone having Staff of the Magi and Cloak of Invisibility.

ancient cosmos
harsh wraith
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the thing now is, if you played the adventure and know that it drops "such and such" featured item and your "dream" item hasn't shown up yet, you'll just make a new character and replay the adventure to fit that item to you.

ancient cosmos
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That's a choice.

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Even trading in AL seems a lot quieter/less activity since the vaulting started.

normal phoenix
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Oh it worked out great for me, that first item I got was very much "as good as I could have hoped for in tier 1"

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And now hes tier 2 so if I find something cool theres a lot more space to play with

ancient cosmos
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I will be interested to see what the Featured items are in T2 with the limits. Only 1 rare/very rare could be more interesting if they are mostly rare items. 24 games in that Tier to take only 1 (or maybe 2 replacing the first). But looking forward to experience it and see how it works.

harsh wraith
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I pretty much found all the featured items for my characters, but very tempted to have my warlock play || the moathouse.|| But I was pleasantly surprised by the flavor text of ||Gladeshear|| and enjoy that weapon on my barbarian. Just had to change his fighting style from heavy to duel wielding.

normal phoenix
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The one area that seems under supported at the moment ||weapons that are not finesse and anything two handed||

harsh wraith
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hoping that will be different with Southern Discomfort series.

ancient cosmos
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Weapons are always a tricky one. There are lots of options and characters often are built with using a specific one in mind. Makes it tricky to get enough variety out there where someone doesn't feel left out.

normal phoenix
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Also shout out to all our DMs and Players that showed up to Iuzual Suspects II - 32 tables of LoGers exploring the Lordship! Special thanks to Ma'at for helping make sure we had the chance to delve Hommlet and Nulb!

harsh wraith
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I recall there was a player complaining earlier looking for monk weapons. The best thing I think for a monk was probably the random item rolls for a staff of flowers.

rancid sage
normal phoenix
harsh wraith
normal phoenix
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monks should be pretty darn happy

harsh wraith
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I totally forgot about that

normal phoenix
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Monks are great 😄

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My monk is Monk 2/Rogue 1; shortsword, nick dagger, bonus action unarmed strike

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4 attacks with a ki point feels pretty strong at level 3

rancid sage
rancid sage
ancient cosmos
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It's interesting because Monks have had a number of options for weapons/items. Yet, my monk has no uncommon item. Using a weapon instead of just unarmed isn't as important to monk anymore in 2024.

normal phoenix
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theres one particular weapon that I am shooting for on him 😄

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havent managed to get it (on him, ofc the paladin got it) 😄

somber reef
ancient cosmos
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There's one item I've seen I would take on mine. But I won't play it before I get to T2 at WF. So I'll find other things.

knotty ocean
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theres a couple wepons that are a bit over represented at this point

somber reef
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So I personally don't understand the "no vaulting means everyone won't come in with all the same items" argument, because some items are simply objectively better than others if you can only have one.

normal phoenix
normal phoenix
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but yes... Sledgehammer Jack isnt meant to use a rapier 😉

harsh wraith
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looking forward to see what the AOs drop.

rancid sage
somber reef
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Because then I can use it in T2

ancient cosmos
rancid sage
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Alternatively, and this just comes to mind because I like having my players do things like this in my home games, if there was something like a "Trophy case" I could see having a fun item like that to display, but never use.

ancient cosmos
#

But that type of thing you can just roleplay

normal phoenix
#

Yes the AOs are very much not meant to be dropping gear that feels "required"

rancid sage
#

But why, Komori? You'll get some other item that will force it back into an unused space once more and the cylce continues.

#

Just with more "well I want more vault space"

#

slipperly slope etc

somber reef
somber reef
normal phoenix
knotty ocean
#

idk i have chars i switch up builds on based on how im feeling theres enough classes that just switching a bit of gear can adjust the play style

but like "hold one per tier" would really satisfy that want

rancid sage
# somber reef If I never use it ever again, what's the harm in it being in a vault?

Whats the harm in giving it up by that same logic? You won't use, it so replace it with something you will.

Before we just ping pong back and forth on this, I still am not convince vaulting is a better system. I get that people will have a different opinion, and I respect that. I for one still don't see the benefit of it and prefer LoG's current system.

somber reef
#

I mean at this point I get that some Loggerheads just don't want vaults. That's fine. But I don't think their reasonings make sense to me.

"It's this way because it is" is the only one that sounds reasonable to me

knotty ocean
#

im also totally 100% good with no vaults before public as just logical

rancid sage
somber reef
#

Yeah we ended up saying the same thing. XD

normal phoenix
#

I am curious if trading is going to really be a thing

#

it seems very very modest right now

somber reef
#

Honestly, maybe the rule that bothers me most about LoG is the physical certs only trading.

normal phoenix
#

which I mean is also fine and in line with most "home dnd"

somber reef
#

The others bug me for "not my taste," but the physical certs kinda bother me more on an above-table level

normal phoenix
#

in my home game experience trading tends to be "oh I have a sword +2 now, doesnt anybody want this sword +1" or "hey dm now that we are in city, can I trade this for that"

#

I get the sense that at some point, there might be a DDB digital cert and the difference between having a paper cert and not is just the cool factor of the paper.

rancid sage
#

The cert trading made sense to me initially and I still get the intent behind it, but so many games are now run online, plus you can only get certs if they have them at an in person con, which they might not. I feel like this system, of any of them, will be changed the most

normal phoenix
#

and to add to that Fedwin its basically just premiere cons

rancid sage
#

Digital cert would certainly solve some problems

somber reef
#

Jack, you should give up the idea of a digital cert. We don't need NFTs

normal phoenix
#

you can't bank on a paper cert if you arent at the premiere of the content

rancid sage
normal phoenix
#

yeah that gets into a up to the PO how to handle that one

harsh wraith
#

It places trading behind a gate. You need to be in person. And you can only get the physical cert at the premiere to do so. Not good

normal phoenix
#

To the extent trading is important, yes

knotty ocean
#

well trading or vaulting to acheive similar ends

rancid sage
#

Aye. Right now, imo, trading isn't super important or needed. But I can see it being so int he future and I'd like to see the current system changed to be more accommodating

normal phoenix
#

Personally at least in tier 1 i dont see trading as a major factor

#

In tier 2 I can see stuff like "oh man I rolled a great item for somebody, that I dont want"

somber reef
#

If "Trades stopped when AL intro'd vaulting," then it stands to reason without vaulting, trading is more valuable.

normal phoenix
#

Yeah I do suspect trading in tier 2 will be more useful

#

cant say for sure, but I think youre right there Komori

#

with only one item "slot" in tier one, your odds of using it to trade are low

ancient cosmos
#

I've seen a drop in trading since vaulting. But I think that is also compounded by reducing the DTD requirement for trades from 15 days to 5 days, which makes it easy to trade between your own characters without a real cost. Limits on certs for trading is a big limiter right now. It sounds like there may be some in-person events that have other options for trading, but we will have to see what. Even if trading is opened up, trading without costs, between ones own characters I think is something that should probably stay restricted or you start creating issues that vaults create.

normal phoenix
#

Agreed, self trades are a problem

somber reef
#

You just need one friend. 😄

#

(And be in person)

normal phoenix
#

exactly, one friend that attends physical cons

#

its the only reason I talk to @rancid sage 😉

somber reef
#

It's a very haves/haves not situation, though.

rancid sage
normal phoenix
rancid sage
#

At least I knwo the truth! Better than a lie! lol

normal phoenix
#

but IMO that is part of being CON first

#

if you aren't at the cons, theres stuff you are missing at least for awhile

#

(hopefully not forever)

somber reef
#

Trading forever, though.

normal phoenix
#

I still hope there is a long term plan there

#

But I can say, as a mostly online player, LoG is awesome online even if I can't trade all my stuff

somber reef
#

If wishes were horses...

rancid sage
#

duh

normal phoenix
somber reef
#

The rest of the idiom is "beggars would ride," but sure. XD

normal phoenix
#

Can't pass on a Firefly quote

rancid sage
#

Now I want a jane beanie in LoG...

rotund crater
# rancid sage The cert trading made sense to me initially and I still get the intent behind it...

Yeah, I think the 'trading requires physical certs' rule, in practice, simplifies down to 'there is no trading allowed in LoG' right now.

Because even if you went to an in person convention, and played a premiere, and got the cert for an item, good for you! But if you want to trade it, now you've got to find a person who went through all the same hoops for the item you want to trade and is also interested in trading for the item you have a cert for.

And I suspect that's gonna mean that even the folks who get certs are mostly going to be unable to trade very often.

ancient cosmos
#

I expect there will be some trading at WF, though likely more for random rolled items. But remember, you also need to have played the same adventure with both characters that are trading. Not just have the cert.

rancid sage
#

There maybe an item or two I'll look to trade for with a friend of mine at WF, just depends on what he gets and wants to do.

vocal stratus
rotund crater
#

Also it occurs to me that the loot system (which I like) really discourages prospectively taking items with an eye to trading them, since you are forgoing gold and/or Option C rolls, and you can't vault an uncommon.

vocal stratus
#

I think there should be no trading at all but that’s me

#

How are people deciding who gets the item anyways? Assuming people here have played a LoG game

rotund crater
#

Everyone at the table can have a copy of the item if they want it.

vocal stratus
#

Ah that’s cool

rotund crater
#

If they don't want it, they can take gold and/or a roll on a random item table.

vocal stratus
#

That’s fair. I just think the adventure league way of doing magic item trading was too much

ancient cosmos
#

Yup, the LoG system avoids the fighting over who gets the item, by giving players the choice of which "bundle" of rewards they take. Then, the limits on magic items make those choices meaningful because you can't really take every item since you would be constantly replacing them and losing out on the other options.

normal phoenix
#

Yeah I think its as close to D&D book standard as you can get without getting into situations where you fist fight IRL for the item

#

its a little odd that you would see 10+ uncommon items to choose from before level 5 but the number you keep is pretty in line

azure violet
somber reef
#

I don't think either OP is trying to match the advice in the DMG for treasure for a home game.

modest linden
#

Wouldn’t some variation of LG be viable? You only get gold and the never ending availability to purchase featured item at x price. Then x modules / x levels down the road you look back at your records and decide to buy magic item.

somber reef
#

Not if the POs want to incentivise people going to the premiere games to get physical certs.

azure violet
#

Not sure what Staff of Power does, is it bad to have two in a party?

somber reef
#

Being sarcastic?

ancient cosmos
azure violet
#

I had to quick check what it was, not a king maker or something like that. Seems to be a sturdy staff with acces to spells.

rancid sage
ancient cosmos
#

Yes, seeing 10 items (or more if you decline) in T1 isn't normal, but it is better that and having an option than fewer items even being available to choose since DMs can't "tailor" items to the group like they can in a homegame.

azure violet
rancid sage
#

Ah gotcha! I think I was misreading what you wrote. I initially thought you meant you played in one adventure where someone had a tentalce item, and at the end of thes ame adventure, said item was available.

#

Which made me wonder if the player was playing the same mod twice. Seems like just confusion on my part!

azure violet
#

That would have required some trading.

low bluff
# somber reef I don't think either OP is trying to match the advice in the DMG for treasure fo...

Comment here:

We are 100% trying to align with the Treasure Awards in the 2024 DMG (Page 218-219)

We've just upped the 'Common' items to allow for purchased things like Potions of Healing and things

Tier 1 should have rewarded 5 Uncommon/Rare items (approx. 1 per player Unc/Rare)

Tier 2 should have rewarded 24 Uncommon/Rare/Very Rare items (approx. 4 per player Unc/Rare/VR)

We are spot on.

As a campaign that cannot tailor itself to the specific characters at the table (like a home game) we have to award a VAST swath of items to try and cover all the bases. Not allowing vaulting (which again - isn't in the D&D rules nor would a home game ever use such a silly thing) keeps that home game feel and balance of items versus suggested.

#

So with a little math - I bet more then a few here could come pretty close to what the Tier 3 reward layout is going to look like

somber reef
#

But the DMG is also including about 500 gp on average per session in addition to 1d4-1 magic items.

normal phoenix
#

My fighter got 876.5 between level 1 and 5 == 10 sessions, ~100 per session pretty close

somber reef
#

Once you get to CR 5-10 monsters, it says 8d10 x100 GP and 1d3 magic items per session, which I doubt is happening.

normal phoenix
#

My wizard rolled random 7 times and got 503

low bluff
#

If you look at the PHB - 'Starting at Higher Levels' - you will see that at Lvl 5 - they suggest 500 gp - I personally would have given out a little less gold in T1 in each adventure but was fine with that adjustment

#

since that is more of a base then a guideline

#

but again - if (if and only if) - we decide to allow lvl 5 starting at some future date - looking at that page in the PHB gives you a pretty good idea what it would look like

somber reef
#

Ah, I was going on "Ch 4 Adventure Rewards" in the DMG, not the PHB.

#

As a rough benchmark, aim to roll on the Random Treasure Hoard table about once per game session

low bluff
#

We are doing out best to keep this as much of a 'Core D&D Experience' as we can - having tens of thousands of potential players across a billion different play styles.

We want a new player, holding the PHB, to be able to make sense (best they can with our madness) what is going on

normal phoenix
#

The Hoard is pretty high

somber reef
#

But it wouldn't be the first time Wizards writes things in one section that doesn't math out what they write in another section. 😆

normal phoenix
#

4400 a session is a lot 😄

low bluff
somber reef
#

But that's what I meant about neither OP really matching the words in the DMG.

#

Though to be fair, I also wouldn't give out 1d3 magic items every session in a CR 5-10 game in a home system either.

low bluff
normal phoenix
#

honestly the 1d3 items is about on with the math

#

17 uncommons

#

ten rolls of 1d3

somber reef
#

Per session?

normal phoenix
#

oh yeah no

#

ignore me

#

there will be 24 LoG games in the 5-10 range youre totally right that would be way more magic items if you did a hoard every game than the averge items awarded

#

per the chart the party should find 10 common 17 uncommon, 6 rare, 1 very rare (whic per player is 3, 1 with some rounding) = 34
but if you had 24 hoards youd get 48 items, so roughly 2x right with common

ancient cosmos
#

The tracking sheets suggest 34 items in T2 (for the party 10 of which are common and 17 of which are uncommon). Using 1-3 per session (average of 2), that is about 17 sessions or about 3 sessions per level.

#

So, it seems to presume slightly faster leveling based on items.

#

But, as noted above (and a couple days ago), everything is pretty much in line with getting the characters where they should be for "entering play at a higher tier." It's just a very different scale than AL is used to.

normal phoenix
#

and the book does recommend stocking 25% over what you award to account for not getting all of them

#

so 34*1.25 = 42.5

#

now Ive not known pcs to miss 25% of the hoards so not sure that math maths in reality

somber reef
normal phoenix
#

chapter 7: "overstocking an adventure"

Overstocking an Adventure. When creating or modifying an adventure, assume that the characters won’t find all the magic items you place in it. An adventure usually can include a number of items that’s 25 percent higher than the number in the Magic Items Awarded by Level table (round up). For example, an adventure designed to take characters from level 1 to 4 might include fourteen items rather than eleven, in the expectation that three items won’t be found.

somber reef
#

Aha. Of course they wouldn't put that in the same chapter. 🤣

normal phoenix
#

its the same chapter as the items per level

#

but yes 😄

#

and I have no real defense of the amount of gold, that seems quite high

ancient cosmos
#

That's pretty much not relevant in OP. I can count the number of items that I've seen missed in about 10 years on one hand.

normal phoenix
#

I cant count the number of items Ive missed in log adventures on 3 fingers 😄

somber reef
normal phoenix
#

its 3

ancient cosmos
#

adventures are just too compressed to generally miss things. It's not like big massive adventures where whole sections are missed.

azure violet
#

Thinking about it, if it was possible to choose between several items for the party to bring into a session.
Then it would be possible to avoid having the same things.

ancient cosmos
#

Is having a duplicate item or two that big of a deal? I don't generally think so for the most part. Sure, there are a few items that can create potential balance issues, but not much. Most are at higher levels and I haven't really seen anything that is close to such a concern.

normal phoenix
#

I suspect as the campaign grows into tier 2 it'll be less common to see duplicates

#

when everybody has played 10 out of the available 19 tier ones theres going to be overlap

somber reef
#

You're always going to see duplicates unless the conventions themselves are running a bigger variety of games. Otherwise you'll still see the new people take whatever item they could get on Friday to their Saturday game, no matter how old the OP is. That's just a truism of convention play.

ancient cosmos
#

But it's also not generally a big issue.

azure violet
somber reef
#

Yeah that's just kinda' how conventions are. Sometimes people are duplicate PCs at the same table (from pregens), I wouldn't be concerned about dupe items. XD

azure violet
rancid sage
#

Okay, that sounds like a very cool item - "A hammer with a handle bound in purple worm tongue" - just epic XD

thorn yacht
normal phoenix
thorn yacht
thorn yacht
somber reef
#

Yeah, I've started seeing some listings for another program that seems to be for FLGSs and promoting upcoming books.

leaden breach
#

Hello

thorn yacht
hushed jay
# low bluff Comment here: We are 100% trying to align with the Treasure Awards in the 2024 ...

The 2024 DMG assumes 4-6 players in a party, so approx. 5. The Magic Items Awarded by Level table suggests that tier 2 have a total of 21 Uncommon items in play (approx. 21/5= 4.2 Uncommon items per player) and 8 Rare/Very Rare items in play (approx. 8/5= 1.6 Rare/Very Rare items per player). So, it seems the magic item limits for items of a rarity of at least Uncommon are a bit low starting in tier 2. The Magic Items Awarded by Level table is just that, items awarded, and doesn't take into account items that are crafted or created by Bastions.

normal phoenix
ancient cosmos
#

I think you are forgetting that the magic items awarded include consumables that are expected to be used up during adventuring. It isn't the total permanent items.

normal phoenix
#

and like JT said some of those are consumables, and some might be replaced

#

at level 5 (freshly) thered by that table be 4 uncommons and 1 rare which is right were it is now right?

ancient cosmos
#

actually above the common items.

hushed jay
# thorn yacht The program is to support convention play, not home or store play. Thus an encou...

Getting a full color certificate for a magic item is a nice, tangible benefit of attending a convention. Thus, it seems like a net benefit from the perspective of encouraging convention attendance to guarantee that everyone gets a certificate with each convention premiere they attend. Vaulting would allow for this added benefit without creating situations where players walk away without the cool keepsake that might encourage others to attend a convention in the future.

hushed jay
ancient cosmos
#

The cool keepsake everyone gets, whether convention or not, premier or not, is the Mark of Prestige and choice of item/gold. A permanent item for everyone every adventure is not even remotely close to expectations of the system

low bluff
hushed jay
ancient cosmos
#

It does matter. Consumables get replaced. You don't end a tier with every item you found or was given out because some of them were used. They are gone.

low bluff
#

wait no

#

LOL

#

stupid brain

ancient cosmos
#

You can't say Chart X says we need more items because we won't have enough by the end of the tier and ignore that Chart X includes consumables.

low bluff
#

either way - that chart is the basis for where we got our numbers

#

depending on your personal preference you could think it should round up, round down, need an extra one here or there. Depends on the flavor of ice cream you prefer.

hushed jay
rancid sage
hushed jay
ancient cosmos
#

Great. Create a cert for your Mark of Prestige (they exist at premiers at Cons).
You got the Mark from the game. That doesn't mean you need an item every game (or a cert for an item at every game).

hushed jay
ancient cosmos
#

I think that is an incorrect assumption. potions and scrolls are very common treasure in adventures. And I haven't seen anything to suggest that the tables are only permanent items.

low bluff
#

Which is totally cool. They are fun discussions but I'll never tell somebody they are wrong because they want to play X, or think Y is the right number, or whatever when it comes to gaming. What somebody feels is right is 100% right for them.

I just have to take everybody's opinions on what is 'the right number' - what doesn't break the campaign long term, and what makes the most fun for the most people into consideration - even if my brain personally wants to yell "You are giving out to much stuff - you suck"

hushed jay
hushed jay
ancient cosmos
#

It will be interesting to see how T2 feels over time with the limit of only 1 rare/very rare. I do wonder if it should be 2. But way too early to tell at this point.

ancient cosmos
hushed jay
hushed jay
rotund crater
#

Unfortunately it seems like the conventions within a reasonable distance of my neck of the woods are unlikely to get any premieres.

normal phoenix
hushed jay
rotund crater
dire oasis
normal phoenix
somber reef
rotund crater
ancient cosmos
normal phoenix
errant iron
#

so far I've been keeping an ear out but no sign of any LoG at a con in the UK from what I've heard, sadly, it'll likely be a long time before there's any chance of folk over here getting to regularly attend in person cons with it

rotund crater
#

(been to every PAX West since it was just PAX)

normal phoenix
rotund crater
#

(and since it was in Bellevue instead of SCC)

normal phoenix
dire oasis
dire oasis
rotund crater
somber reef
#

Well, if Marks is saying LoG isn't designed for stores or home play...

dire oasis
#

I supoose but didn't people keep going on about how much LoG content was soon going to be available for home play? I took Mark as saying it was Con first not Con Only.

normal phoenix
#

Home play should be soonish ™

ancient cosmos
#

I interpreted what Greg said to be that it was designed and focused on Cons, not focused on supporting stores/local play. Not that it couldn't be played at stores/locally (once released soon)

dire oasis
# rotund crater Our local store is running this tonight.

Looking at it it looks pretty similar to the promo stuff that they did around the 2024 release - with a couple of special adventures + dice for stores. Its not a terrible idea but its a giant missed opportunity if they don't integrate it into AL/LoG given that once you have onboarded new players they are going to want something to play...

somber reef
rotund crater
somber reef
#

I also think it's crazy to introduce a third program, but.

normal phoenix
#

It’s been awhile since I was plugged into store play but back then seemed like we liked shorter form content than log

rotund crater
somber reef
#

Shorter is more game store friendly for sure.

somber reef
dire oasis
rotund crater
dire oasis
#

And launch is often not at the same time.

normal phoenix
somber reef
#

Or do you literally mean, one combat encounter and that's it?

rotund crater
#

think that was the pre-5e program, when it was dnd next?

normal phoenix
#

Pretty much! That was 4e

rotund crater
#

ahh right.

somber reef
#

So they're reusing the name for this playtest.

#

That's not confusing at all. 🌈 ✨

normal phoenix
#

It was usually like a bit of exploration and an encounter they had a darksun one and a few others

#

They also had lair assault

rotund crater
#

nobody remembers that far back, object permanence is a myth

normal phoenix
#

Which was like challenge mode dnd

somber reef
normal phoenix
#

It doesn’t feel like that long ago

#

But it’d have been like 08 or 09 maybe

rotund crater
errant iron
#

a third OP programme might explain some of the delays in support requests tbh

dire oasis
#

Do you mean with epics? Cause honestly I think thats just the way it goes - especially this time of year.

errant iron
#

idk it just seems like I've been hearing more people than usual who've requested months in advance and not hearing anything

dire oasis
normal phoenix
#

There’s some new guidance in the faq

#

I encourage anybody having those delays to take a peek

ancient cosmos
#

There is? I didn't see anything new in the FAQ. What did I miss.

normal phoenix
#

Lemme link it

#

It’s possibly just “new to me” but getting a private thread in Al admin

ancient cosmos
#

yeah, not overly new, but that form really should be updated for LoG since it is the same one the LoG Guide links to.

rotund crater
# rotund crater It appears to be based on some of the content in the Adventures in Faerun book. ...

So I got to play this Encounters thing last night at our store. No real spoilers below, just a general description of how it worked, but I'll put it in the tag in case.

||We had three tables, and it was structured as a multi-table event. It was timed (3 hours) with some minor table interactions. The adventure was a loose adaptation of one of the chapters in the Adventures in Faerun book.

Pregen characters, simplified rules (it was 5e-based but with some notable changes, particularly around spell slots). The pregens made it feel targeted at newer players, but the actual encounter difficulty was ramped up pretty high. If they're trying to position it as a challenge, it worked pretty well. All three tables were definitely sweating by the end (although we only had 4 players per table).

And yeah, it appears to be some third approach to OP, targeted at stores, although there were no real details provided on that. No idea if this will end up being a one-off or if it will become a real thing.||

#

(granted this is offtopic, but since the discussion started here I figured I would follow up)

knotty ocean
#

It sounds like a version of the other sort of promo events theyve been doing already

somber reef
knotty ocean
#

they tried to shoehorn other ones into AL

rotund crater
#

Yep, we used those.

spiral nexus
rotund crater
#

Our store is a premier WPN store, WotC reached out to them with the package.

formal pulsar
#

I'm again going to implore the community to support changing the magic item rules for LoG. I highly recommend that for iog players to abandon magical items when others are found is not good for characters and goes against the spirit of the game.

Also, You have to abandon your permanent magical items if you acquire a consumable magical item of the same rarity above common.

So at tier 1 you cannot have a +1 weapon and a greater potion of healing, as they are both uncommon.

The same thing is true for any other tier. If you are at your limit and you get a consumable magical item it must replace another.

This means if you have 3 permanent uncommon items at tier 2 you cannot have even 1 consumable uncommon potion or scroll.

Please, change this rule. Consumable magical items need to have their own limit and not linked with permanent magical items.

somber reef
#

You don't have to take the new item. You can choose to keep your permanent item.

rancid sage
# formal pulsar I'm again going to implore the community to support changing the magic item rule...

There is no way to get an uncommon healing potion currently based on playable content. Still, choice should matter in terms of what magical items you have. Keeping them in a "vault" to just have, may be what some people want, which I understand, but I don't see a negative to having no such vault option. I don't feel this goes against the spirit of the game either - this is my personal opinion, mind you; it’s fine if you or others disagree, I respect that.

As mentioned, you don't have to take a new item when presented with it. You can absolutely decline the new one, which would be either the featured item or a random reward. And just for clarification, if you don't want the featured item, you can roll on the table or just take gold.

In terms of the consumable not counting towards the limit, this has been suggested and recommended many times, and the feedback has been received by those that have the ability to influence the rules. If it changes, we just have to wait and see.

rotund crater
#

One thing I'll advocate for on that note: The squishy definition of 'consumable' has been a longstanding problem in the AL rules. If a change is made in LoG, it should explicitly just be single use scrolls, potions, and ammunition bundles (don't think we've seen any of those yet). Otherwise you hit arguments about things like ||Robe of Useful Items|| and other things like that.

normal phoenix
somber reef
rotund crater
#

I would assume the bundle would count as one item until used up or discarded.

#

Doing it as bundles of 5 or whatever isn't the only option, just seemed to work for AL. I haven't seen any magic ammo in LoG yet in any case.

normal phoenix
#

Unofficially reporting back from wf where we saw the first folks grapple with the decision of what rare to take. Small sample size, anecdotal evidence, grain of salt etc. folks there seemed to be having a good time deciding which item(s) to keep in their collection. It’s leading to some pretty cool differences in items at the table and folks that have some pretty strong attachments to a few of them.

errant iron
#

Can you say if all T2 adventures you're aware of had a Rare as the fixed item or were any Uncommon?

ancient cosmos
#

The ones I played were rare featured items. And tables for rolls were different chances of rarity from T1.

errant iron
#

ooh exciting

static imp
#

Yes I saw a 00 get rolled at one of my games at WF for the random table! There’s a wide range of things in the new T2 table.

rancid sage
#

I played all available t2 content, including AOs and only two were uncommon.

The new tables for this year’s random rolls have some real solid potential too.

icy girder
#

The last couple of Rare items I ran into have made me feel even better about the restrictions. Two major problem solving tools for D&D, and needing to choose between them was also a major choice in terms of character utility.

#

One of them was even a consumable item! But the weight of it as an item wasn't any less than something that doesn't eventually get used up. (imo)

normal phoenix
#

Oh yeah ready for some interesting debates over which is the right call. I’m just rolling with flavor to my specific character at this point as the main decider

icy girder
#

...also, whoooo, thinking about a particular Uncommon consumable that I skipped in [MODULE] that came in CLUTCH when someone broke it out at the table a few sessions later.

ancient cosmos
#

There was an uncommon that I have rarely seen used in AL, that was put to very good use in multiple adventures this weekend.

normal phoenix
#

Oh which?

ancient cosmos
normal phoenix
#

Oh for sure

somber reef
#

Imo, the 2014 version (30' range) made it a really bad item

normal phoenix
#

That’s fair. It’s usually a little more floofy imo but it can be fun

#

And very handy if you happen to not have anybody with the proper skills

dire oasis
#

I rarely take it in AL because it removes fun for those who do have the proper skills.

slender jewel
#

My Barbarian got a Rare he really needed, which means any more T2 Rares will be very difficult to decline. Love this game! ❤️😁

normal phoenix
rancid sage
#

Just to throw it out there, for any who are interested in LoG but aren’t in the know. This past weekend was Winter Fantasy for BMG and there were several Author Only adventures - these are ones only the author can run - and they were absolutely stellar amazing. If you see a game with the AO tag to it, and can get into it, it’s worth it!

dire oasis
#

Unless you live in another country in which case you'll never see them... I always considered AOs a blight in AL and I consider them the same in LoG - why give a small set of people exclusive access to an adventure especially if that adventure has rewards that aren't available from other adventures? Sure its cool for those people but it excludes everyone else.

errant iron
#

I think for AOs in LoG at least they have to be run for an online con at least once

ancient cosmos
#

And my understanding is the reward issue noted has been addressed, though it isn't instantly resolved since not everything is available at the exact same time.

errant iron
#

Yeah they were upfront about the goal not being to lock the best items behind AOs, so far does seem to be the case

rancid sage
dire oasis
chrome moat
#

They've also been very clear that the campaign is convention focused and that is it's explicit purpose.
There are a ton of online cons (as has been mentioned) and the main adventures will be available for purchase publicly soon (Q1 / spring). So, they are going out of their way to offer content to fans who don't do cons, and they're going to eventually expand the conventions to include overseas stuff.

#

That's including people, not excluding people.

small mural
#

I think a number of people are probably just more nervous because BMG delivery of at home releases has been spotty to non-existent at times. If you will, the best thing BMG can do here is deliver what they say or potentially, don't be over promising and under delivering. It just leads to this kind of questioning as to whether we will ever see the releases.

It is understandably not their focus and I respect that. It just rubs people the wrong way when they are assured of something they really want and end up without it in the timeline given.

knotty ocean
#

it should be noted BMG is not the only group creating adventures

somber reef
#

A lot of those groups feel like spinoffs of BMG, though. Ie, writers who previously wrote or DM'd under the BMG banner.

small mural
#

The optimist in me would really like to see LoG home play sooner rather than later as I cannot introduce it to FLGS without more content. But, with a convention focus, I have just assumed that this will require a lot of patience.

ancient cosmos
#

Many of these groups have been around a long time. I think it is more that there is just overlap on people who do things with different groups.

normal phoenix
#

There are a finite group of con nerds and we mostly all like each other 😄

somber reef
#

That is patently untrue XD

normal phoenix
#

also, entirely unofficial person here, I still estimate home play release for Spring

somber reef
#

There is an ever increasing number of conventions and ever increasing convention size. If your pool of nerds isn't growing, that's actually an issue

normal phoenix
#

Yes growing the org play community is part of what LoG is about, for sure

#

I just meant more, If you are the sort of person that attends cons and DMs, you will almost certainly cross paths with BMG DMs

#

(and WCAG and GC etc)

#

And generally those people end up DMing for other people. So there is a lot of overlap

somber reef
#

In a specific geographic region, sure

normal phoenix
#

Good Morning LoGers and Legends!

Fresh out of Winter Fantasy we are pleased to announce we are lending our full support to Good Games for a Good Cause Winter Weekend 2026 (February 27-March 1) in support of Doctors Without Borders!

This convention will feature The online debuts of the Game Conclave Duchy of Urnst Adventures run by some of the DMs you know and love! This includes the full tier one trilogy including the multi-table special Jagged Red Line running on <t:1772323200:f>

For our Adventurers League players, we are running AL one-shots and author-run adventures as well as the AL Epic™️When the Lights Went Out in Candlekeep on <t:1772391600:F>

We hope you can join us for a weekend of Good Games for a Good Cause!

Tabletop.Events can be found Here

rancid sage
#

No idea if that will be the case for other POs though.

errant iron
#

in fairness, that was what we were told would be the case for the most recent AL adventures and they did start that way but then disappeared

spiral nexus
#

I feel like I remember hearing Epics would not be ported to home play - I am correct in hearing this or am I Mandela effecting myself

ancient cosmos
#

There are not Epics in LoG. There are Specials. And I think they said most things would, but not everything.

normal phoenix
#

I am not official and this could have changed from when they last answered this, but BMG has said they intend for everything they have released so far to make its way to home play.

Other POs have not committed as firmly and plans can change.

spiral nexus
ancient cosmos
#

Basically, I don't think it matters what type of adventure it is, but there may be a few things that don't get published for one reason or another (and of course AOs are unlikely to be published if history in AL holds true).

rotund crater
#

Personally, my concern is that the Q1/Q2 promise will be fulfilled by a release of Hommlet and Nulb only, that we won't see anything else for a while, and that the public release cadence will be designed to play the role of a teaser to bring in new players without reaching a volume of content that could allow home/store play to be viable.

I'm hoping that this is just pessimism on my part. If there's more to the initial release (perhaps including Moathouse and the first three DoG modules, maybe some of the WC and LoI modules) then I will count that as a very positive signal.

normal phoenix
#

with absolutely no insider information, I'd be very surprised if they dropped the first 7-8 adventures all at once

rancid sage
#

If i had to guess, I'd assume its either 1-2 mods at most a month.

Right now BMG has stated they are hoping for 26 new mods just this year alone for their premieres. That's alerady more than enough for 1-2 per month after this year alone. Added with the fact they've also do another ~12 already, including specials, they could hit 1-2 a month consistently.

How, or if it works out to that exactly has yet to be seen. All we can do is hope.

ancient cosmos
#

I think expecting more than 1-2 per month to start is setting yourself up for disappointment.
If you are expecting enough to play a weekly game without repeating, I think you will be disappointed in the short term. There isn't enough out there yet and a good part just premiered.

normal phoenix
#

that said I think we will eventually get to a place where 52 new log adventures come out in a year, so if they all make it to homeplay, you'd be able to do that

#

But if we get there, my best guess is thats a year from now at least

somber reef
#

That's a generous estimation

icy girder
#

I've been thinking about how well the first two ferrond trilogy+specials and the first DoG trilogy could adapt into a blast of a home campaign. They'll certainly have my money as soon as they're on DDB, DM's Guild, or what have you

normal phoenix
#

the three POs would all seem to be looking at at least 12 adventures a year. With another 1-2 POs assuming the same pace wed be in the 48-60 adventures a year

#

So I think saying its a year from now at least is pretty accurate

rotund crater
#

I don't think even a module a week is necessary to support home/store play. Two a month would keep a steady game going, one a month would even work.

#

But 1 or 2 followed by a 4-6 month drought would not work.

knotty ocean
#

i feel like its most likely they get dropped in packs of 3 or 4 at a time

#

since all the storylines seem to be 3 or 3 + a special

normal phoenix
#

Yeah a lot will depend on how they decide to package it

rotund crater
#

That seems likely, yeah.

dire oasis
rotund crater
#

That's why I would hope at least a couple of trilogies get released to start with.

ancient cosmos
#

A game a week is very unlikely to happen in the near future. There isn't enough content out.

rotund crater
#

Truthfully, in our area (with high AL playership) there's barely any awareness that LoG exists.

#

And it's not really surprising since, to date, without extensive travel, there's only been one opportunity to play two LoG modules.

normal phoenix
#

(I get thats not for everybody)

icy girder
#

Makes sense. Convention focused campaign with no option for store play yet. I'm not surprised that it's still pretty unknown in that space.

rotund crater
normal phoenix
#

I can only should from so many rooftops

icy girder
#

It'll take time, but I'm hoping to see some local stores offer it alongside AL when the full launch hits. Fingers crossed for a strong launch.

normal phoenix
#

once its up on DDB itll be a whole different level of exposure

rotund crater
#

We've got a couple of very large local conventions alongside a variety of smaller ones, that could collectively support a pretty healthy scene.

ancient cosmos
#

Not surprising many haven't paid much attention to it if they aren't going to Cons. Hopefully they will when more becomes available for home play.
I'm just trying to make sure people aren't overexpecting on how much is going to be released quickly. If you play weekly, you are almost certainly going to need to play other things as well or run adventures at least twice.

normal phoenix
#

I agree JT, I'd expect the first wave to put home players in the same boat we were in between MagicCon and Gencon, though hopefully not for as long 😄

rotund crater
normal phoenix
somber reef
normal phoenix
#

I’m curious too. We haven’t heard about a big store play push for LoG

#

With AL and Encounters it might not be a focus

somber reef
#

AL barely has WotC support in the form of documents. It's the "Wizards is supporting two other OPs" that is the point of interest to me.

#

Splitting their focus more than player focus

normal phoenix
#

certainly not the first time theres been more than one Org play program up at the same time. I hope its a sign of different programs for different purposes rather than trying a one size fits all. I am excited for the end of "beta" and to see how it all shakes out

thorn yacht
thorn yacht
thorn yacht
thorn yacht
thorn yacht
thorn yacht
errant iron
spiral nexus
normal phoenix
somber reef
#

Good to know this time there are contracts. Surprised to learn that wasn't previously the case.

rancid sage
#

And it is always nice when Greg drops some details on LoG!

normal phoenix
#

In my self proclaimed unofficial role as #2 LoG Fanboy

I know we have some Bandit Kingdom fans here. Dice Tower West Link to Dicetower Events page will have the premiere of 3 BK mods

and Wondercon Link to WonderCon site will have a 4th BK mod as well as a NEW 5th Wild Coast Mod

[Not affiliated with West Coast Adventurers Guild, though I do think they are cool]

harsh wraith
#

who is #1 LoG FanBoy?

normal phoenix
#

Fedwin

#

maybe

#

I think he has thus far managed every premiere

rancid sage
normal phoenix
#

Yeah 2026 is the year we all face our LoG fomo if we havent already

rancid sage
#

Its also about cost! Last year was my year of "do something fun for me, costs be damned". This year is "well now I gotta pay bills" kind of year 😆

normal phoenix
#

well yeah 😄 if i had infinite money I could do them all 😄

rancid sage
#

Saaaaame

chrome moat
rancid sage
#

Sounds like me last year, Kit lol

lavish roost
#

For those of us that don’t play organized play but would like the adventures to bring our groups through or to pillage for ideas, are they published anywhere?

spiral nexus
#

Not yet unfortunately

#

But should be in a few months or so

chrome moat
somber reef
#

Quarter 1 ends in March. The rest of spring is Q2

harsh wraith
#

I am looking forward to owning Village of Hommlet, Darkness in Nulb, and Ruins of Moathouse.

normal phoenix
#

q1 or early q2 I think is the current estimation

somber reef
#

If it's published after April, it is neither Q1 or early Q2.

small mural
#

Mind you, Q1 in business could vary based on your chosen end date for your fiscal year, but yeah, most of us use the December 31st quarterly calc. If you will, if the LoG publishing people are using a different fiscal year, announcements of Q1 might mean something different.

somber reef
#

Sure, but if an OP is giving out a date, they don't really have their own business fiscal year as such.

normal phoenix
#

I’m personally expecting before April but as with everything it could slide and it’s not like mine is the official guess

small mural
#

I would hope not. People are silly sometimes though. (Responding to Komori!)

normal phoenix
#

From chats with loggy people I believe they mean the first quarter as in January, February, March

#

But lots of moving pieces with DDB so it may slip into the April,+ window

somber reef
#

I'd be surprised if DDB is the cause of a delay.

normal phoenix
#

I dunno it might be substantially different than just uploading a pdf which is all Onebookshelf needs

#

I’m also holding out hope for some integrations with item cards and things

small mural
#

Item cards are like old magic item certs? Or like those cards that Wizards sell that explains the magic item with a picture and/or the magic item description?

normal phoenix
#

Right now the qr just takes you to ddb

#

There was some early hope in the fan base that it was somehow going to be traceable and tradable on ddb

small mural
#

Thanks!

icy girder
#

They're like old item certs, yeah.

somber reef
#

Anyone with any passing familiarity with DDB and the way the system still has trouble with actual system mechanics (poor tracking for pet subs, no sidekicks, no bastions, etc) would've known that there was no way in the nine hells they'd have managed trackable and tradeable digital items.

#

Least of all for one of (three) organized play programs, a fraction of a fraction of folks playing D&D.

rancid sage
#

Honestly, unless any of us work directly for DDB, which none of us do, we have no idea on plans for how the site will change for home games or OP. All we can do is hope and wait to see how things progress.

#

For the original question, all we know for certain is that it’s been stated, officially, that content will be for home play at some point, with a goal of Q1/Q2 - with Spring being the time given; as mentioned above.

All other aspects are community hopes and such.

So, not much longer to wait 🙂

icy girder
#

Hoping for earlier, but betting on GenCon for Ver 1.0 of the rules and adventures becomig publicly available.

#

GenCon has been particularly good for D&D the last few years. 2024 rules drop and Age of the Dragon in 2024, LoG launching in beta in 2025, full availability in 2026 would be hype.

somber reef
#

So early Q3

azure violet
icy girder
#

Urnst!

normal phoenix
#

I don’t expect it to be as far out as Gencon

#

Things change of course but last time we got official word it was still hopefully Q1 but possibly into early q2.

That is way different than late Q3 🙂

#

If folks were looking for new LoG; Good Games for a Good Cause tickets and badges are on sale. The brand new Urnst content from Winter Fantasy running online and benefiting Doctors Without Borders

dire oasis
#

They never said which Spring they would come out in... Or which Hemisphere...

somber reef
ancient cosmos
#

Adventures not public until GenCon would be a massive delay and I think may hurt getting people interested in LoG for year 1 (or 2 depending how you count).

dire oasis
somber reef
#

Perhaps not

lavish roost
granite scarab
#

hopefully will be around the same time as the first wave of home play.. hopefully. lol

slender jewel
#

@night swift ...interesting DDB discussion.

rancid sage
#

Where’s this discussion happening?

slender jewel
#

...just thought it was an interesting idea.

night swift
#

@lavish roost that’s a fair callout. There is a blog post coming soon that touches on this and what we intend to do about it. We’ll have more to share throughout the year.

lavish roost
night swift
tall dock
#

@thorn yacht you mentioned your background research during your AO. Do you have any recommendations for high quality but condensed sources for Greyhawk lore? Bonus points if Incan listen to it on audio.

normal phoenix
thorn yacht
snow sedge
#

@thorn yacht Any word on when we will come out of Beta?

rancid sage
#

While I'm not Greg, I'm sure the answer will be soon ™

ancient cosmos
#

Out of curiosity, if it just the hope that there will be a rules update when Beta ends, or something else people are looking for from it?
While I hope there may be a few minor tweaks on rules, I also wouldn't be surprised if there isn't much change. Just not sure if there is something else about it being in Beta or not that is a concern.

normal phoenix
#

I think we've tied "out of beta" with "available for home play" which may not be true. (My guess is that it will be both at the same time)

I certainly (personally and unoffically) don't expect much in the way of rules changes. Maybe something around metaorgs, or some nod toward bastions, perhaps something downtimey, maybe something about potions not counting against your limit of items or something.... But if there were zero rules changes I'd still be perfectly happy with the Beta rules being the final rules.

I do very much look forward to content coming out for home play.

ancient cosmos
#

I haven't really been tying those together, but I guess it's possible and some may be assuming that.

I look forward to home play as well. But basing that on dates (well range really) for when it will be released, not so much on when Beta ends.

rancid sage
#

My personal thought is that I don't think the official rules release will be when the content is out for home play. I could be wrong, but personally I'd think it would be something like, “Oh hey, here are the official rules.” Content for home play will be out around x date.

I'd rather be wrong on that and everything comes out at once. I just don't foresee that happening.

somber reef
#

It's a weird thing to both claim "I don't think the rules will change at all" and "It's still in beta, maybe the rules will change" when people bring up rules concerns. (For instance, consumables counting against MIL)

#

But that's probably partially due to the complete blurring of the whole concept of "beta" by the games industry.

normal phoenix
#

In fairness both statements can be true

  • If you don't like it, you can in theory give that feedback and it might change cause it is beta
  • I don't expect wild swings in the rules as anecdotally it seems like most people playing are pretty happy with them
#

No argument though that beta doesnt mean what it used to 😄

#

These days I go into a beta assuming that what I am seeing is pretty locked down unless we manage to surface a huge issue that breaks things

ancient cosmos
#

While I think some changes are possible, I also don't think we will see any major ones. I expect some minor changes to clarify things and address some common concerns. But I don't expect anything significant that has a huge impact on play.
That was sort of what prompted my question of why focus on end of Beta, is there something else I'm missing about that.

snow sedge
ancient cosmos
#

I would put that at a very very low chance personally.

errant iron
#

Have there even been any beasts released for 2024 rules that aren't available?

ancient cosmos
#

I don't think there were any in Faerun or Eberron, but maybe buried in one of those. I'm also not positive whether the MM has any that aren't in the basic rules.

errant iron
#

All MM beasts are in the Basic Rules, I just checked haha

thorn yacht
thorn yacht
icy girder
#

the future just keeps getting brighter

thorn yacht
rancid sage
#

This is excellent news!

ancient cosmos
tired shadow
#

When it comes out of beta, will game stores be able to run it?

snow sedge
ancient cosmos
#

Adventures will be publicly available soon. Whether that is directly tied to the exact date beta ends is not as clear.

normal phoenix
#

From what TheBaldman confirmed over on thier discord [(link to BMG discord)](#1313198371477000232 message) once LoG is out in the wild you'll be able to just play the released content when you want. So gamestores, homeplay, online, whatever.

small mural
#

LoG soon™ 🙂

ancient cosmos
#

Every indication is end of Q1 or start of Q2 (March/start of April.)

normal phoenix
#

Yep I agree with JT. Not official, don't "Know" anything but barring some big unforseen change, thats my money too.

rancid sage
normal phoenix
#

It is

small mural
#

I remain kind of curious whether it will be on Beyond and what that delivery would look like.

#

I know there is limited info that can be discussed publicly but this cat is full of curiosity.

ancient cosmos
#

I'm more curious about the form of delivery than DnDBeyond or DMsGuild or something else. Need a pdf or at least good downloadable printable version or my interest in buying and running will drop quickly if I have to run off DnDBeyond.

small mural
#

I personally am good with either because I DDB to run at my FLGS but for a Con environment, unless LoG expects solid internet at every Con, locked in to DDB may be quite a bit more problematic.

normal phoenix
#

Way too many people have specificially said D&D Beyond in public venues for me to think it would be anything other than DDB

small mural
#

Oh, sorry yes. DDB = D&D Beyond.

ancient cosmos
#

I don't have a problem with it being on DDB or DDB being an option. But it needs the pdf or other downloadable and printable option.

normal phoenix
#

I agree we cant assume internet access at cons, there needs to be a printable option

ancient cosmos
#

That's the key part for me. I don't want to have to run it off DnDBeyond

normal phoenix
#

ddb does download nicely at least

ancient cosmos
#

Not from past experience with adventures released there.

normal phoenix
#

I personally mostly run online so I'd be OK with DDB not having a print version but I know a lot of people that strongly need a hardcopy for a variety of very reasonable reasons

#

I hope they all come nicely set up in MAPs personally

ancient cosmos
#

That would be great for online games.

normal phoenix
#

I should see what printing from a DDB adventure is like currently, maybe its good enough?

somber reef
#

Not when compared to a pdf. You're basically printing a screenshot, so it's not remotely paper-efficient.

normal phoenix
#

Ya I just tried one and it'd work but id for sure want to get in and edit things to make it less odd looking

somber reef
#

I've run DDB adventures in offline mode in the app, but it sometimes forgets if you own the content and blocks you from using it. 😠

normal phoenix
#

I guess stop being all suspicious 🙂

ancient cosmos
#

yeah, lot of formatting, including page breaks that are a big problem printing from DDB.

DDB can do pdfs - they do them for Unearthed Arcana.

small mural
#

In fairness because this is LoG with a focus on Con play, I see much more need to support "paper" copies. But as a mostly non Con goer, maybe the status of free wifi and power outlets at Cons is just awesome but I have doubts, especially for smaller venues.

ancient cosmos
#

It's not. Some Cons are "fine", but many are not. And even those that have it, I wouldn't want to rely on it and risk not being able to run a game if there was a problem.

normal phoenix
#

thats my big concern, if you dont have a paper copy what happens when the internet dies unexpectedly or you can't recharge...

#

its fine at many cons but sometimes it becomes not fine unexpectedly 🙂

errant iron
#

you have to just make the adventure up from memory and hope for the best!

harsh wraith
#

suddenly all Demogorgons.

normal phoenix
#

everything is dc 13 and everything deals 1d8+3... Honestly I bet you wouldnt even notice 😄

somber reef
#

For conventions, it's really just a matter of scale. You get thousands or tens of thousands of people in one building and the towers or wifi are going to be overloaded no matter what.

azure violet
#

@hollow patio regaring Legends of Greyhawk, you can send in a request/question using a form.
Follow the trace from the article #log-news-updates message
find the LoG guide and rhere it is written

normal phoenix
#

I do think at the moment though LoG support is convention only, soon™ will have available for smaller events and home games (not official just based on what I've heard people say / smaller log event getting declined)

azure violet
#

I'd say, try it and see if they respond. Maybe it works like a charm.
Meanwhile, to get feel for LoG, join the virtual event next weekend Good Games gor a Good Cause!

normal phoenix
#

Worst they can say is no 🙂 so go for it. That’s good Motto

thorn yacht
#

LoG suppport is current for conventions only at this time

uncut nymph
#

Does a newly created Human character begin with heroic inspiration? Or do they need to wait until a long rest?

small mural
#

Someone would have to comment specifically for LoG, but it makes sense that a new character slept the night before adventuring which should theoretically mean they should have the Heroic Inspiration upon character creation when starting their first game.

rancid sage
#

Currently, and I’ve never had a DM disagree or anyone dispute it, you start with Heroic Inspiration at the start of every LoG game if you are human.

normal phoenix
#

It is worth noting that there is currently no downtime between adventures so it’s a little nebulous in some ways if you’re trying to figure out if time has passed since your last session.

I’ve never had a dm say I don’t start fully rested with all my various things recharged

keen meadow
#

You should be safe to assume that time has passed, but that it is just undefined as to how much and where you spent that time. For the time being.
Thus, you should be fine on anything that happens after a long rest and/or at dawn.. once. Beyond that it is up to the DM what they allow or want to go with. I for instance will always rule that at least 30 days have passed if anyone aims to bring a tree they have awakened, for instance (but thats just because I love having a nice big tree to control as a DM) 🙂

normal phoenix
normal phoenix
#

In case anybody was thinking I was upset about that. I am not! Just giving Krishna a hard time. I just asked a question about an army of awakened trees 😄

normal phoenix
#

If anybody is feeling the need to LoG Dog this weekend LoG_Dog , you can still squeeze in the whole series of Duchy of Urnst games at Good Games for A Good Cause Link to their Tabletop.Events helpfully pre-sorted to show you available LoG games. This is amongst the freshest cuts of LoG only recently debuting at Winter Fantasy. Come see what the hype is all about, roll some dice with some new friends, and the best part support Doctors Without Borders while you do it.

small mural
tough hornet
#

That's what I am thinking too.

rancid sage
#

Hm so far as I’m aware, even looking at my own LoG certs, none of them have numbers on them.

thorn yacht
tough hornet
#

Mystery solved, it was "D&D Adventurer’s League Certificate Identification Code for Emerald Enclave Membership"
#adventurers-league message

icy girder
#

Back from ye olden tyme, when faction membership meant something

narrow parrot
#

Apologies for rookie behavior
How do I join a greyhawk campaign?

knotty ocean
#

Currently you can find log being played at conventions, both in person, and online through the vddws, iuzual suspects, and west coast adventurers guild

normal phoenix
#

This month in person check out GaryCon and Dice Tower West, online you have BMGs VDDW

narrow parrot
#

Vddw?

azure violet
rancid sage
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Our online con for Iuzual Suspects is in April with different content than what BMG will present for their VDDW. Of course, BMG will also have another VDDW in April as well.

noble lichen
ancient cosmos
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The latest update on the BMG server from this weekend:

"We are still on that track - we hoped to get it in before the end of Q1 but looking more like the first week or two of Q2"

noble lichen
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Yuge

normal phoenix
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Im still optimistic for this month honestly

rancid sage
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Greg Marks also previously mentioned that end of March start of April is what they are aiming for, with no set release date as of yet. #legends-of-greyhawk message

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I think there was something mentioned about OP stuff in the State of the Game vid that was posted recently, with something being mentioned at one of the Cons coming up there would be some additional details - I think either GaryCon or Pax East as both are end of March.

normal phoenix
rancid sage
#

Ah! That is probably what I was thinking then. I know they breifly mentioned OP and the in store stuff. I'm probably mixing the two in my head 🙂

spiral nexus
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Is there a reason why no author is listed for the first set of Lordship of the Isles adventures on the website?

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Is it all Pratico?

pure wadi
spiral nexus
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It’s cool how all of the Urnst adventures are written by multiple authors

#

Always fun seeing people collab

normal phoenix
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Probably just a missing section in the dataset.

spiral nexus
#

Oh cool! I didn’t know that

azure violet
left grove
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Who is going?! garycon

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0️⃣2️⃣ Days 1️⃣8️⃣ Hours 3️⃣2️⃣ Minutes

normal phoenix
fathom rune
#

What Sledge said!

tall crescent
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I'm DMing 8 sessions! Sign up for my games!

thorn yacht
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See you there

dire oasis
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Hey I recall someone saying that guns aren't banned in LoG - unlike in AL - is that correct and is there a pathway for characters to acquire guns?

knotty ocean
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guns that are available to purchase in the phb may be purchased if the DM deems you are in a places where guns may be sold from my understanding
all purchasing goes through DM fiat at the table post char creation, and really can depend on "adventure is in big city or smaller hamlet"

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iirc ive been at at least 1 table where someone purchased a gun

ancient cosmos
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Just remember gold is fairly limited in LoG as well.

dire oasis
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This baffles me with the years of "Guns are Bad" y'all in AL - I have to admit that I assumed it was a weird WOTC thing - but I guess its just a preference of an AL admin or something?

ancient cosmos
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I would prefer they were banned in LoG (and AL) but for now, they have gone with simpler rules in LoG and not explicitly banned them.

rancid sage
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The short and sweet of it is that you can purchase anything in the PHB if you have the gold. Given there is no downtime, the purchase has to be approved by the DM atm.

Since guns are in the PHB… well there ya go.

Feats, skills and cost wise, guns are more expensive and have fewer benefits than say a crossbow. Really is, imo, just flavor and what you want your character to be like.

small mural
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So, in LoG, if one DM allows the purchase, can another DM reject its use?

rancid sage
normal phoenix
# small mural So, in LoG, if one DM allows the purchase, can another DM reject its use?

As Fedwin said guns are legal. There’s not provision for a dm to reject its use.

That said two things to be aware of:

  • guns are not a major part of the lore traditionally. Some people aren’t fans that they are allowed in LoG for lore reasons.
  • (this one is more conjecture on my part) I wouldn’t expect a lot of support for firearms. If new firearms feats come out or magic firearms or firearms subclasses there’s not guarantee they’d get added to LoG.
chrome moat
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"So, in LoG, if one DM allows the purchase, can another DM reject its use?"
Can and should are two different things.
E.g.—a DM "can" rule at their table that players aren't allowed to use raise dead because the player got diamond(S) at various times, paying for it as they went, rather than one, single diamond worth 500gp.
"Can" they do that? Yes.
"Should" they? No.
Other than the fact that Raise Dead is always available.

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Resurrection or what ever is probably a better example.

low bluff
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ya any DM can be an butthead - no rules or anything else fixes those situations - we as a community do

chrome moat
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I'm not a fan of firearms in Greyhawk.
But, it's in the campaign, and if we're playing in it, then we have to accept that as part and parcel of the game, ahead of time, going into it.
Which I do, because playing GH is more important than quibbling about what's allowed in Organized Play.

When I get to play it at home once they're released publicly, I don't have to include firearms. And I don't have to use them for my PCs. But, if I'm playing LoG at conventions, and there's other people playing with firearms, I just kind of like to mentally gloss over that fact in my own headcanon version of the narrative, and just pretend it's not there, and instead concentrate on having fun.
🤷‍♀️
YMMV.

knotty ocean
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you are far more likely to see 2024 enemies with firearms than PCs even with them available

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and thats where it becomes really hard to keep them out since they are fully baked into 5.5 design

low bluff
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ya we (BMG) are swapping them out on monsters as fast as we find them

harsh wraith
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suddenly all crossbows

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but are the other POs swapping them out of monsters?

rancid sage
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I’ve seen it mentioned in the LoI content that they are “hand crossbows” but some times DMs say they are guns. And of course, as Dave said, BMG is calling it out too. Not sure about any content or POs stance on it thus far.

ancient cosmos
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I suspect some of the calling it out as guns is likely a DM missing the change or even more likely forgetting while running and having a lot of other things they are focused on.

rancid sage
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💯 agree, JT.

End of the day, if you really wanna buy a pistol or musket, you can. It’s expensive and you gotta find a DM to approve it.

azure violet
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I remeber a description of something that probably was a gun. Maybe in Turtleback Cove, maybe Dead-eye.
And regarding AL, the guns aren't completly banned in Adventurers League. You can't buy them or build them, but they are rewarded in the Spelljammer games and that is a shared campaign with Forgotten Realms and Planescape.

normal phoenix
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Yes there was a gun used specifically in a lordship adventure at least at one point. Whether that gets ironed out in future version I can’t say

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That said I think firearms vibe better in Lordship where my head is already Pirates! Than in Greyhawk as a whole

willow sierra
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Hey, How do I go about getting the info to join a campaign ? I am an experienced player and have been playing for 2 years. Also which program do you use for the Campain / character?

toxic glen
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So check your closest game convention to see if they'll be running a Legends of Greyhawk game

normal phoenix
spiral nexus
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Ideally it will release for home play in a matter of weeks 🤞

dire oasis
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I mean no matter how long it takes it will still be some matter of weeks 😄

spiral nexus
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Matter of weeks rather than matter of months

rancid sage
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When I was a kid, and my family would go on family vacations, my sisters and I would always ask how long until we got there. My folks started saying “2 hours", regardless of whether it was 10 min or 8 hours. Now, even as an adult, when our family asks how long to get somewhere, we just blurt out 2 hours lol

I feel like that's how it will be for the LoG content to be on DDB. No matter when its gonna be here, answer is "A few weeks." 😆

normal phoenix
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Last we've heard it was "Early Q2" dates can slip and all that so "It'll be here when it gets here" is a healthy mindset. But I am optimistic it will be out before the end of April. (That's just personal opinion of course)

slender jewel
thorn yacht
civic sorrel
#

Just a heads up, I'm out of the office from now through May 6th. Thank you @thorn yacht for continuing to keep an eye on the LoG channels and answering questions!

Take care everyone! And have so much fun!

normal phoenix
thorn yacht
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Now that the adults are gone, quick, LoG party on the Discord!

normal phoenix
ancient cosmos
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Sorry, the shipment of Holy Avengers was delayed.

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But I'm hoping a shipment of Poles of Collapsing show up soon.

thorn yacht
normal phoenix
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A paper airplane would be a pretty neat common item really

harsh wraith
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more of a trinket. 😉

errant iron
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need to go to Waterdeep for their magic paper birds

icy girder
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Paper Dragons

glass blaze
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Uncommon, though

normal phoenix
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I might have a soft spot for origami magic items. One of my favorite inventions is an origami Katana artifact folded from the last page of the last book ever written, called Fable’s End

fathom ether
thorn yacht
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Sure. I expect we'll start integrating Pathfinder soon. Right now its planned for 3026.

flat hearth
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so soon?!

normal phoenix
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3026 is well into battletech timeline I think we will have bigger fish to fry

low bluff
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3026 was my hotel room in Cancun this past week. Illuminati confirmed!!!

modern fossil
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3026 before GTA 6

rancid sage
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You might be onto something with that!

dire oasis
elder hinge
normal phoenix
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Legends and LoGers we present our

April Iuzual Suspects Con!

Eight Legends of Greyhawk adventures
Duchy of Urnst:

  • Delija's Vault
  • Behind Enemy Lines
  • United Front
  • Jagged Red Line (Multi-Table Special)

And the Online Premiere of:
County of Urnst

  • The Billet's Last Sermon
  • Murder at the Manor
  • The Stonebrook Mystery
  • The Sundering of Sanctum Hollow (Multi-Table Special)

Important Dates:

  • Games run April 24th through April 26th
  • Badge sales are open now
  • Ticket Sales go live April 13
  • Schedule should be posted at least a few days before tickets go live.

Tabletop.Events Site

Interesting in DMing?
Our DMs are our lifeblood. If you want to join us we are recruiting at least a few more DMs for April. If you are interested, please fill out this Google Survey

left grove
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Awesome

spiral nexus
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Not specifically Legends of Greyhawk news but Greyhawk news: Luke Gygax announced the cover for Melf’s Guide to Greyhawk

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On Facebook

icy girder
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HM. The Shield Lands, you say....

rancid sage
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These posts on facebook… why can’t these things be on something other than that? 😞

severe prairie
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Luke is allowed to post what he likes on his own Facebook page. I wouldn't expect anything from Wizards until closer to release.

low bluff
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And what are we expecting? This isn't an official Wotc product. It's a 3PP being put up on DDB (and I know pretty everybody working on it and I'm sure it will be super cool)

rancid sage
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As for expectations, I think we'll see and learn some details that are unique to Luke Gygax and growing up playing D&D. Perhaps some details about the world of Greyhawk that is known to few, along with his own take on various aspects.

ruby arrow
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Didn't they say it was going to be official? (After it was originally a 3PP?)

rancid sage
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I don't think so. The news I saw from GaryCon seemed to indicate that Luke was working on it entirely on his own as he could. Now he's working to have WotC have it published as a 3PP via DDB, along with any other place.

Plus, if the Baldman says its gonna be 3PP, rather than directly through WotC, I believe him. He just knows all the peoples. 😆

ruby arrow
rancid sage
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lol totally fair.

#

People gonna speculate

normal phoenix
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Greyhawk is the original home game anyway. What even is “official” greyhawk 🙂

dire oasis
tired shadow
somber reef
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Who's "they"? If it's wholly written by an outside author, then even if it's published by Wizards it would still be 2nd party at best, wouldn't it?

tired shadow
tired shadow
somber reef
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I dunno that "WotC and Gygax said it was going to be official" and "We don't know anything definitively yet" can both be true.

tired shadow
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We don’t know

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We do know that somehow WotC is involved.

Does that mean Gygax is publishing it exclusively under D&D Beyond but under his publishing company?

Does it mean it’ll be under the WotC name? Does it mean it’ll be published as a book as well?

They haven’t shared those details yet.

#

But the way they talked about it seems to imply it’ll be under the WotC banner. But again nothing is confirmed

rancid sage
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Ah the joys of speculation and the internet 🙂

normal phoenix
thorn yacht
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I mean it’s officially integrated into DDB like any 3rd party product and you can use it in your home games DDB PCs…

fiery sapphire
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If it's "official" it might retroactively become LoG, is the point I think.

rancid sage
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I don't think it will retroactively become LoG now or in the future. LoG is certainly its own thing with its own take on past Greyhawk lore.

Could possibly some items from it be allowed in LoG? Maybe, but I feel like this is something we'll have to wait and see on.

Personally, I don't expect much, if any, of it to become part of LoG.

normal phoenix
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I suspect player options would be reviewed just like they were for the Heroes and Artificer books

Lore I suspect will be down to whether the various POs in character of the various regions decide if they want to embrace it

tired shadow
normal phoenix
low bluff
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And my understanding right now - sharing what I can share - LoG has no intentions of using anything in this book.

I know most working on it - i know it will be cool and hope it sells a bajillion copies.

It's their Greyhawk not our Greyhawk.

vale flicker
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That's fair, thank you! I do hope for minimal clashes between that book's lore developments vs. that of the LoG events, as I'm only keenly interested in the latter but would love to see consistency in this new Greyhawk approach. That's WotC's call, though.

somber reef
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I would imagine it's the writer's call.

thorn yacht
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Log does not generally adopt 3rd party books.

tall dock
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Has anything gone out yet on the first LoG available on DDB? If not, any insights on which communication channels I should pay attention to? I’m looking for planned availability date.

icy girder
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This is a pretty good place to keep your eyes open! I'm sure we'll all be hooting and hollering in here when it happens. :)

fallow mesa
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Small question but what would be the best ways (wiki, books, youtube channel, etc...) to get into the lore of greyhawk

harsh wraith
fallow mesa
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thx

rancid sage
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Both great resources! It is worth noting that much of the content on the Greyhawk wiki page, while amazing, is going to be related to LG or other older notes on the world.

LoG, which starts in 576CY, is before a lot of events outlined in other documents, and some story elements might be slightly different or even take a different direction in the long term.

Different campaign settings in the world of Greyhawk; both valid and awesome. 🙂

somber reef
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The dmg is supposedly canon *for LoG. Might as well start there.

low bluff
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<points up one> This right here. While authors and even players may dip into older things here and there for inspiration - the core of the campaign is based on what is in the DMG - anything that is not found there (or in an adventure or update) - should be looked at like grocery store sushi - it might be amazing - it might cause you some issues later on in life

rancid sage
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Good call outs all around! Clearly early morning responses without coffee leave me forgetting key details 😆

west plaza
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Old-be question. Does this thread have access to the old Living Greyhawk modules?

ancient cosmos
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Maybe some individuals do, but Legends of Greyhawk is not connected to Living Greyhawk and notably things may not happen the way they did in LG.

west plaza
west plaza
ancient cosmos
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Please turn off pings when responding.
Overall, LoG is entirely separate from the old LG. They are both in Greyhawk, but that's about it.

normal phoenix
harsh wraith
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you could still finish them and release em on DMsGuild.

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but you would have to update them to 5e

somber reef
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Worth clarifying that LoG doesn't have a DungeonCraft option, so releasing them on DMsGuild is irrelevant to LoG.

normal phoenix
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It would be kinda neat for a lot of folks into it for the story, but yes

ancient cosmos
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I don't think any of that stuff is the Living Greyhawk stuff they are looking for.

slender jewel
tired shadow
lapis isle
robust sun
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the announcement is coming later 😉

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your eyes are too KEEN

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stahp it

normal phoenix
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Some of us just poke into dark dungeons to find secret treasure

robust sun
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sounds like a buncha D&D players to me

normal phoenix
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Buncha Legends and LoGers for sure 😄

tired shadow
robust sun
tired shadow
normal phoenix
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You might not have found the trap via perception... but you found it

tired shadow
tired shadow
robust sun
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okay, you all can look now

icy girder
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It's real. It's really real. Sobbing

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"D&D's Modern Shared Campaign" hits so good in 2026

harsh wraith
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modern happydoge

unique wolf
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meh, when can the community start creating for it?

tired shadow
ancient cosmos
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No hint of that and unlikely to happen in the near future.

uneven shadow
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Do the adventures come in pdf format? Or do you have to use dnd beyond to use the adventures?

toxic glen
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Currently Legends of Greyhawk adventures are convention only

ancient cosmos
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DDBeyond currently. No PDF.

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They are not convention only now. First three are out for others to buy and run.

toxic glen
uneven shadow
dire oasis
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Terrible decision - DDB is simply not reliable enough to count on to run games from. Its problematic enough for players - trying to use it to run say at a con would be asking for trouble. This might be a timezone bias thing but here in Australia D&D Beyond likes to do its updates during our prime play times.

brisk willow
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Printing to PDF is not terrible these days on DDB (for purchased individual use of course)

left grove
glass blaze
#

I've had Maps glitch out and not be recoverable a few times over the last several months

dire oasis
uneven shadow
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Yeah, not a fan of everything going through dnd beyond. Shouldn't need to rely on a website being up to play dnd. I'll skip this one. Cheers though.

leaden aspen
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That is great! Here in germany we can only read about those great games at conventions, now I can play them for my groups scattered over all of Europe! The Maps VTT has worked really well and reliably for us. Love it!

ancient cosmos
tired shadow
tired shadow
brisk willow
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Yeah that’s certainly an issue at some of our events. Sheer numbers can slow down the cell towers.

harsh wraith
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Has D&D beyond ever done pdf/printer friendly in the past? For any of their products/3rd party products

left grove
left grove
rancid sage
# uneven shadow Yeah, not a fan of everything going through dnd beyond. Shouldn't need to rely o...

You don't need to rely on a website to play D&D, as there are multiple options not too. Even with the modules being on DDB and not in a book, there are solutions. While I won't list them (I don't think you want to hear them), I do feel you are missing out on a great set of adventures for a great price.

End of the day, as long as you are enjoying your games with your players, kudos to you and carry on! PartyWizard

rancid sage
somber reef
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There's an offline version of DDB that works pretty well. You just have to make sure that you've connected it to internet recently (like, before going to the con) so that you don't get DDB telling you it can't verify your purchases. Same with loading up character sheets beforehand.

Admittedly, it doesn't work for everything. Like, if you plan on making character adjustments at-con. Short/Long rests don't work for some reason so you have to track those manually. (Unticking spent resource tickboxes) And if you're making a new character at-con, forgeddaboutit.

But it's still usable for 90% of use cases in a non-internet environment, provided you prep beforehand.

rancid sage
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Indeed, many solutions are available if you want to use them

vale flicker
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Hey now that the initial adventures are on Beyond, I'm wondering: are the sessions legal/logabble if run privately outside of stores and big events, and what is the legal minimum # of players in a session? Apologies if that's already answered somewhere accessible.

harsh wraith
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it should be listed in the LoG Player Guide (under FAQs). And the adventures got adjustments for the number of players.

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and they should be legal to be played anywhere now as long as you follow the LoG Player's Guide.

vale flicker
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Thanks. I don't see specific party sizes listed besides references to 5 as the norm. I know DDAL used to enforce 3-7, then dropped it, so I thought it worth checking.
The strength adjustments are useful, but they have limits.

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esp since we've gone from 5 difficulty increments (in AL) down to 3

harsh wraith
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I believe they're designed for average of 5 players (I always seen 5 seats at VDDWs). But with the adjustments you could technically go 6 and drop down to minimum of 3.

vale flicker
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min of 3 seems prudent, yeah

harsh wraith
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note that in the adventures themselves, it doesn't give a limit.

vale flicker
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a single lv 4 player tring to solo these adventures could be fun/funny

harsh wraith
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good luck. happydoge

vale flicker
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oh one other question; when taking the DM reward for an adventure, I can take the advancement/level up plus the gold bundle OR the main magic item, NOT the random item and (what I'm wondering about right now) NOT the Mark of Prestige, correct? That's my read of it.

harsh wraith
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Are there rewards for Dungeon Mastering Legends of
Greyhawk adventures?
Dungeon Masters can apply advancement and select any
one non-random reward to apply to a character for each
adventure session they complete as a DM. In the case of
Dungeon Mastering multiple sessions of the same
adventure, DMs may not apply advancement and rewards
from the same adventure more than once to the same
character, but they can ap

vale flicker
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yeah, no Prestige then

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makes sense to me

normal phoenix
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You can take the Mark of Prestiege

errant iron
#

that's in the FAQ right?

vale flicker
#

the wuoted text is yeah

normal phoenix
harsh wraith
#

it needs to be mentioned in the legends of greyhawk's player guide FAQ.

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because I don't see anything about the MoP in there for DMs

normal phoenix
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Yeah theres a few things I hope make it in

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But the Legends of Greyhawk FAQ has its roots in Greg Marks answers to these questions and is maintained by the BMG folks. High degree of confidence and certainly how folks have been doing it for the last year.