#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 74 of 1

rigid latch
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It is, yes.

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Its also one that has had a lot of changes over the years and i want to identify if eg, whats possibly happened to berdusk.

Its interesting that in the latest version berdusk is on the way between elturel and greenest.

So its likely players will want to know whats happened to that town if they decide to visit it.

feral lintel
rigid latch
feral lintel
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i would take a gander at the forgotten realms wiki then, thats where ToD is set in

feral lintel
rigid latch
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Yeah, things move about quite a surprising amount there.

Ah and yes i don’t want module specific stuff. Maybe i should never have mentioned ToD? 😝

tawny raven
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So having one in my possession would be less like having a pet and instead it’s more like having an assistant. Interesting that changes my entire point of view on them.

feral lintel
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think mishevious and really evil toddler

storm dagger
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The Campaign setting books are Sword Coast Adventure Guide which was kind of a failed experiment but still gives a decent amount of lore. Storm King’s Thunder gives a good amount of detail about the Sword Coast as well.

Eberron Rising from the Last War, Ravnica, Theros, and Wildemount are all proper setting books for their respective setting

tawny raven
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Kind of like a crow because crows have seven year old intelligence

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I can work with that

rigid latch
feral lintel
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it has lore. wether its good or not is debatable

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-# didnt buy the book and i still feel ripped off

storm dagger
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Spelljammer Adventures in Space, and Planescape Adventures in the Multiverse also have setting books

rigid latch
storm dagger
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Planescape more so as it’s longer

storm dagger
cursive idol
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Hi

storm dagger
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From checking the Greenfields are only talked about in Tyranny of Dragons

rigid latch
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Yeah, the greenfields specifically is only mentioned in ToD, but I'm wondering about the areas around it. What sort of commerce would happen, etc. Where might orcs come from? Would it be believable if I put werewolves in an inn? That general sort of setting.

storm dagger
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From checking its a very minor place barely given by any coverage even in previous editions

rigid latch
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Yeah, so I think I won't buy that book then. Just had another look in the chapters, it seems to be full of classes, spells, and stuff I don't care about.

storm dagger
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It’s right next to Elturel and Baldur’s Gate

rigid latch
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right next to Elturel and BG? Ok that's surprising.

storm dagger
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You might be interested in the Forgotten Realms guides coming later this year

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They look to be a second go at giving a 5e overview of the realms

rigid latch
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That's great to hear.

cinder cloud
rigid latch
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Yeah, more information being a more popular location makes a LOT of sense.

cinder cloud
# rigid latch Yeah, the greenfields specifically is only mentioned in ToD, but I'm wondering a...

For actual details, the wiki is your best friend, as it pulls from all source material on the Realms. The Greenfields is just a big open plain in the Western Heartlands. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Greenfields_(Western_Heartlands)

What sort of commerce would happen, etc.
Greenest is one of the few cities in the region: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Greenest
There is a temple of Chauntea there that indicates it is mostly an agricultural town. It also does a lot of business catering to the caravans along the Uldoon trail: "The trade caravans that pass through Greenest bring gold to the town's merchants and craftsfolk, and Governor Nighthill runs the town at the behest of the inhabitants." - Tyrrany of Dragons

Where might orcs come from?
Orcs can come from a variety of places. They typically prefer to live in mountainous regions but can be found throughout Faerun.

Would it be believable if I put werewolves in an inn?
Whether or not something is believable is a subjective question which we can not answer. As a DM, you have the power to put whatever you want in an inn, including werewolves.

rigid latch
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Thanks for that @cinder cloud, I think I've gotten all the lore I can find now. That wiki is indeed exceptionally good, it's curious that the SCAG is the only place that seems to actually put Greenfields on a map, and I've been noticing a lot of the towns in the area move around a lot.

cinder cloud
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But yes, there was some shifting and morphing that happened between editions that squished some regions down from their original scale and expanded them a bit

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There's also not really a large amount of interesting locations in Greenfields other than Greneest and the Uldoon Trail. It's just a big open plain.

rigid latch
cinder cloud
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(Greenest and the Uldoon trail are missing)

rigid latch
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I'm thinking of adding my own edits, but those'll be campaign specific rather than lore that fits here.

iron saffron
rigid latch
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I find it interesting how many could have survived and lived through both of those.

iron saffron
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Forgotten Realms Timeline
Netheril -3859 DR to -339 DR
Cormanthyr 650 DR
Fall of Myth Drannor 714 DR
1E 1356 to 1358 DR
2E 1367 to 1370 DR
3E 1372 to 1374 DR
4E 1479 to 1480 DR
5E 1490+

rigid latch
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Is bg3 considered a part of that timeline?

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(Would be early 1500 I think)

iron saffron
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No.

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BG3 is its own thing.

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It's like asking if the MCU movies is part of Marvel Comics canon.

rigid latch
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Fair, that works nicely. A bit of a headache otherwise.

I’ll consider it a branching off.

iron saffron
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Same IP but different products that could affect/inspire each other.

storm dagger
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BG 3 probably takes place in the 1490s

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The upcoming FR setting Guides are stated to reference the events of the game in some ways

rigid latch
storm dagger
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Checked and got the timeline

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It takes place shortly after the Adventure Descent into Avernus in 1494 DR

rigid latch
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Not far off the mark then, and yes, Kalach was in that, at least according to bg3 lore

iron saffron
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WotC does make official some stuff from licensed products, such as Minsc and Boo from the first two BG games, and Morte from Planescape: Torment.

rigid latch
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Minsc and Boo were awesome.

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They are also in BG3, but not in a big way

iron saffron
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Again, Marvel Comics has taken inspiration from other Marvel related products to bring them in the comics canon.

rigid latch
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Yeah i actually thought it was the other way around.

verbal bone
storm dagger
verbal bone
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I think it’s probably useful to wait and see what, if anything, from BG3 gets referred to in the tabletop game’s lore. Unless and until then, probably best to expect they’ll stay separate.

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(Though at my table, which is running Candlekeep in 1492, i have decided to keep mine in the early part of that year. Keeps any question of inclusion or exclusion off the table. )

inner adder
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can cleric worship 2 deities?

iron saffron
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Clerics devote themselves to one deity but they could revere many. A cleric of Labelas Enoreth (the elven god of time, history, and knowledge) could revere the rest of the Seldarine (the elven pantheon).

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Clerics would devote to one deity of a particular portfolio, who would give them powers and spells based on their domains. Obviously two gods would most likely have different portfolios, and thus different domains.

calm crest
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Also varies somewhat setting to setting. Some clerics worship full pantheons rather than individuals (the default 2e or Mystaran cleric). Some worship no deities at all to get their magic (all Eberron and Mystaran clerics, as Immortals aren't gods in the latter and gods are ambiguous in the former).

rigid latch
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They both use the same stretch of land, and a crashed Nautiloid ship isn't easy to miss.

sharp owl
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Baldur's Gate is it's own "self contained" lore and the only canon involved is that of the other BG games and any explicit tie-in media

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Lore canon between different pieces of D&D media can get weird, but a good rule of thumb is each expression of D&D lore (book series, comic series, any given adventure, video game series etc) is its own self-contained thing and any reference to another piece of media isn't an explicit bridge between the two and more of a reference or nod or easter egg

rigid latch
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I’m imagining this as a bit like the timeline presented in the Loki netflix TV series 🙂

grim siren
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Before this "It's the multiverse" approach. Video Games weren't really accepted as Canon until it appeared in other media. For instance for the longest time BG 1 and BG 2 were not considered canonical events until the horrid trilogy of novels came out. This gave the original bhaalspawn a canon name, Abdel Adrian. This was further reinforced in the "canon" leading up to 5e's release with an Aged Abdel Adrian appearing in the Adventure, Murder in Baldur's Gate.

We got confirmation that events from BG3 will appear in the new FR Guide as to what they will decide it will more than likely the path that changes the World-State the least as "Replace your Divots" has been the Realms strategy since at least the release of the 2019 FR Style Guide.

verbal bone
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It’s where the word ‘canon’ i think does us a disservice. These aren’t the holy texts that are blessed.

More useful to hold a loose grip on them. Not “what exactly happened here in this expressly true version of the multiverse” but more like “what events should future writers working on this world know about and be mindful of when creating new fiction?”

All imho.

sharp owl
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Canon in this context just means narratively contiguous

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It's got nothing to do with the original theist application of the world

verbal bone
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Which i think has morphed in fan context in other IPs to an almost identical meaning.

sharp owl
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I don't think the article is accessible anymore, but there was an official D&D studio article that explains how each expression of D&D lore is it's own canon and while events from one thread of canon might be referenced in another, that doesn't mean the two threads are connected. Instead they're just using each other as points of inspiration and reference

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Every expression of D&D has its own canon.

Our studio treats D&D in much the same way that Marvel Studios treats its properties. The current edition of the D&D roleplaying game has its own canon, as does every other expression of D&D. For example, what is canonical in fifth edition is not necessarily canonical in a novel, video game, movie, or comic book, and vice versa. This is true not only for lore but art as well.

feral lintel
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Whats canon is what your table uses

crude blaze
sharp owl
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Mainly because what happens at your table, while part of your groups lore is not part of D&D lore

feral lintel
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Are there dinosaurs in Greyhawk

cinder cloud
storm dagger
wind hemlock
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i need text translated

rigid latch
wind hemlock
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i need modified demonic

iron saffron
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This is the lore channel. Perhaps #homebrew if you want to homebrew a demon monster statblock?

wind hemlock
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ok thanks

feral lintel
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any worlds or settings where the world tree is like, a physical location or tree instead of just a meta way to explain the realms?

calm crest
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Yes. Since 1e, Yggdrasil can be physically travelled as a means of going between planes.

jagged apex
# feral lintel any worlds or settings where the world tree is like, a physical location or tree...

"bigby's glory of the giants" addresses ways that several actual locations in any given world could be seen as part of the world tree, to partially quote "On some worlds, they literally tend a great world tree they believe to be a seedling of the tree on the First World. On other worlds, they believe some other geographical feature is the “root of the world,” such as a towering mountain or mesa, a yawning cavern deep under the mountains, or a meteorite in an enormous crater. Whatever forms these roots take, the giants believe they are nexus points linking the worlds to each other and to the Outer Planes." end quote

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so it varries from setting to setting but is kind of both physical and a cosmic based way to connect the planes

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then there is also the stuff i mentioned in bigby's about the "roots of the world", but while i think that tree of the first world they are referring to is yggdrasil, i could be wrong and it could be something separate

storm dagger
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There are several planer nexuses in D&D

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The Astral Plane, Sigil, Yggdrasil, The Infinite Staircase

rigid latch
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Do we have a collection of swear words for especially dire situations, that are culturally used in the Sword Coast?

iron saffron
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Yggdrasil is featured in the 3.5E adventure Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

dreamy karma
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Fairy dust = drugs is what I consider canon from now on because a party I'm in made a joke about that while looking at the map for castle ravenloft

feral lintel
jagged apex
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like in common they have farruk

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and common is basically a universal sort of language so odds are would not be uncommon to hear that especially in the sword coast

teal wharf
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Has anyone wondered why the spellplague is sometimes referred to as 'ancient' when it's still in living memory for longer-lived species? Like Elves and Dwarves. IIRC, it hasn't even been 150 years.

iron saffron
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Which book refers to the Spellplague as ancient?

teal wharf
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Off the top of my head, Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

jagged apex
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the 6th one i find funny

iron saffron
teal wharf
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I can't give you an exact sourcebook or word. When I first learned about the spellplague, I was under an impression it was some distant and ancient event. When I looked into it more, I realized it wasn't even 150 years in the current setting.

jagged apex
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likely you were misinformed initially

iron saffron
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Well, the Spellplague happened between 3E and 4E, thus not "ancient."

teal wharf
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Is there any reason it's effectively thrown under the rug? I understand Mystra removing most of it.

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There are pockets of dead magic and places hidden from Mystra where the spellplague could exist.

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Haven't seen it an any adventures, only referred to in hardcover modules and one shot adventures. I think that's where I read it was some ancient cataclysm.

jagged apex
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like many things in 4e it was not really well received by the majority of the dnd community, least is my understanding

teal wharf
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I have a concept to put the spellplague in my DC adventures for Adventurer's League and the scarcity of information bugs me but also gives me wiggle room for creativity.

iron saffron
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5E retconned a lot of 4E lore changes.

jagged apex
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all you really need to know is it was basically an apocalyptic event with magic going haywire on toril and abeir, manifesting as magical fire of a blueish coloration that technically originated outside of the material plane, thus why Ao could not do anything to prevent it, the forgotten realms wiki more or less summarizes the key points of the events as they related to the forgotten realms setting https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Spellplague

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in universe these major catastrophes are in universe ways to explains the changes to magic and lore between editions, just unfortunately the most easy way they tend to do this involves someone for some reason either accidently or intentionally killing the goddess of magic, in the case of intentionally, it tends to backfire

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the one that fixed most of the damage and progressed events from 4e to 5e is known as "The Second Sundering"

teal wharf
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I am hesitant to rely on the FR wikia and it's even cautioned in the IP guide.

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Don’t rely on the Internet for sources of lore, and be cautious of relying on older material. The D&D IP is a snarl of contradictory material, and when in doubt, it’s best to check with the administrators.

feral lintel
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the wiki is quite reliable

jagged apex
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that is why you also at times check the cited sources

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the wiki is a tool for consolidating the lore across editions and continuities, it is not ment to be the sole source itself

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but fact is, it is a reliable source for at least a summary and cited sources to check regarding a subject in the lore, sometimes they paraphrase for legal reasons as i recall, but again that is why you can also look up the cited sources and read the exact wording yourself

jagged apex
iron saffron
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The wiki cites the official source books. It's fine for a summary but use the cited source books for details.

jagged apex
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anything not cited, take with a grain of salt or do not take as fact

teal wharf
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I'll keep what you've all said under advisement. Thank you for the clarifications.

rigid latch
shy nexus
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At the Forgotten Realms Wiki, we aim to have everything accurate, reliable, and fully cited, but we're far from complete in many areas. We always encourage readers to look at the original sources regardless to factcheck, see the original context, and simply to enjoy and support the source material. But we know WotC themselves have used and relied on the wiki, so you can take their advice with a pinch of salt too. 😆

tropic osprey
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Why did Corellon Larethian (aka leader god of elven pantheon) trick the leader god of Orcs so that he couldn't find a place for his creations and why did he punish the dark elves harshly but only a slap on the wrist to the sun elves in the end of the crown wars?

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As far as I know, he is a pretty good guy, these actions sound out of character for him

feral lintel
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cuz hes chaotic

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and fickle

jagged apex
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a god's morals are already often rather alien compared to a mortals, a fey god doubly so

fervent ridge
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Is there a canon design of the original Thessalmonster?

jagged apex
iron saffron
jagged apex
tropic osprey
jagged apex
iron saffron
tropic osprey
# iron saffron What about him?

The Sun elves started the conflict and the dark elves retaliated. His punishment for the dark elves was literally denounced their entire sub-species while he only destroyed 1, exactly one kingdom of the sun elves

jagged apex
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you are missing some nuance to it

tropic osprey
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Yes they committed w******mes but that is just slightly worse compared to the sun elves

jagged apex
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"During the Crown Wars, the Ilythiiri made several unsuccessful attempts at conquering Faerûn (although they conquered Southern Faerûn up to Shantel Othreier), and at the time of the Fourth Crown War, they turned to Lloth and the other evil members of the Dark Seldarine, who gave them powerful magic and fiendish allies as a reward for allegiance. The Ilythiiri's worship of dark deities and the use of their power, led the high mages and priests of all the surviving elven nations to gather at the Elven Court, and channel the power of Corellon Larethian to turn the corrupted dark elves into drow ("Dhaeraow" - traitor), and banish them underground. The original intent was to only curse the dark elves guilty of the crimes committed by Ilythiir, but the spell ended up affecting all of them." as the wiki puts it

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and lolth has her own less than pleasant history with him

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and technically was not corellon directly who did this

tropic osprey
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Wasn't it still his power? Can't he change it? I know that he did let some drows to be his priests and show his blessings to some of them but just why? Can't he revert the effect?

jagged apex
jagged apex
tropic osprey
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Gotta be the most convenient plot tool for them writers 😅

jagged apex
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as for the effect being reversed, we know it can be done, but the gods are not wanting to do so for what ever reason even his daughter

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which the earlier linked history of the dark elves page covers

tropic osprey
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Oh so it wasn't even a kingdom that was punished 🤔

jagged apex
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and at least according to what is documented there Corellon merely urged them to form the Elven Court, does not seem to imply he had anything to do with the judgement

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cuz afterwards it says that They made the judgment of who caused the war, which seemingly is referring to the Elven Court, as if they ment Corellon they likely would have used his name or singular pronouns

jagged apex
tropic osprey
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Probably the lore writer just wanted to make drow unique with that whole being cursed thing without painting them in too much bad light 🤷‍♂️

jagged apex
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or a misconception, drow original had little to no lore far as i know and were just something for adventurers to kill, was not until later and mainly from RA Salvator we started getting lore on them that fleshed them out into a proper people

tropic osprey
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Ya, I was hoping they had a better lore explanation than just to left it like that

jagged apex
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does not help that they tend to be associated with lolth given most drow in the forgotten realms that people know of tend to be those of her faith, despite them being far from the only or even nessissarily most abundant of the drow population

jagged apex
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as in both cases Corellon's involvement was rather indirect, least far as i can tell

tropic osprey
jagged apex
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well the crown wars stuff was indirect

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the stuff with grummsh like oldman said is a mythology thing and can vary from culture to culture

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but from what i am aware some takes on believe it was merely a prank of sorts, especially when Corellon in more recent years seemingly is feylike first and foremost, hence why i described him as a fey god

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granted such a prank or any prank in general on the guy in the faerunian pantheon who is the god of destruction is probably not the best idea, but fey are not always logical like you and i would think it, and Corellon from what i am aware is know to be led by his emotions and whims more than anything

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oddly Gruumsh kind of in his own way could respect corellon at least in regards to how he does combat, still didn't like him, but at least could understand and respect him as a warrior/war god

tropic osprey
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Or did I misunderstand the clerics from FR?

jagged apex
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depends on the edition the event takes place in, as some things even lore wise have changed over years on several things, including the relationship between clerics, gods, and their magic

jagged apex
tropic osprey
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Maybe deeper explanations were left for the DMs' interpretation then, that is one way to explain it

cinder cloud
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The lore doesn't cover every possible thing

hard portal
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Yo, what is the difference between the Ethereal and Astral plane?? Bc they seem pretty similar

iron saffron
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The Ethereal Plane is the transitionary plane between the Material Plane and the Inner Planes.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ethereal_plane
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/appendix-d-the-planes-of-existence#InnerPlanes
The Astral Plane is the transitionary plane between the Material Plane and the Outer Planes.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Astral_Plane
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/appendix-d-the-planes-of-existence#OuterPlanes

hard portal
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Yeah true but what is the purpose of it tho? I'm checking the player's handbook, and the Astral Plane seems to be basted on psychic energy, while the Ethereal is based on Magical Energy, but idk

iron saffron
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They're "highways" to other planes.

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Read the links I've linked.

hard portal
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Ohhh so they're just that? Highways to other planes?

iron saffron
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Hence transitionary.

hard portal
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Ahhh makes sense

cinder cloud
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I mean, they're planes of their own as well. There's creatures that exist and live there, etc.

calm crest
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The Ethereal houses all demiplanes, the Astral contains dead gods. The Ethereal lets you look into neighboring planes and pass through physical objects, the Astral is nigh-timeless and weightless.

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Both have a variety of native inhabitants that are distinct from each other.

gloomy brook
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Does the common folk know that dragons can't enter Waterdeep?

rigid latch
gloomy brook
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A powerful magic, can't remember the name, physically blocks dragons from entering the city. I think Aghairon casted it, but I'm not sure

rigid latch
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Ah, setup in 3e, the Dragonward.

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I wonder if it affects wyvrns and dragonborns.

iron saffron
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Dragonborn aren't dragons though.

rigid latch
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They still have dragon blood.

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Apparently it might have a mild effect on them. Eg, troubled dreams and whatnot.

iron saffron
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Well, that's going to be awkward playing Waterdeep: Dragon Heist with dragonborn PCs...

rigid latch
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Does Waterdeep’s Dragonward affect dragonborn? Or draconic blooded sorcerers? Or anyone else who claims some hereditary traits of dragons? Yes, but "troubling" their dreams and daydreams with visions, not keeping them out. And there are (very rare!) magical exceptions to the wards even for some true dragons…

— Ed Greenwood (@TheEdVerse) June 20, 2018
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So much potential lore would have been lost if it wasn't for the wayback machine. 😭

jagged apex
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dragonborn last i checked have always had a very weak connection to dragon kind, the fact they are humanoid and not dragon is proof of that

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far as i know there are dragons that bypassed the mythal too, though is not something easy to do, main example i know of is steel dragons cuz of how their unique shapeshifting basically allows them to fully immerse as the thing they are resembling as far as humanoids go, and can even for lack of a better term "turn off" their dragon nature so that they don't for example create half dragons, should they settle down with someone during the lifetime they are living, register as dragons in relation to spells and magical effects, ect...

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usually to my knowledge when something says to effect dragons it means true dragons, you know the kind you don't want barging into town cuz even with a proper army, odds are they are gunna do some heavy damage

jagged apex
rigid latch
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Twitter is just beyond the pale.

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But for quotations, twitter was good.

cinder cloud
rigid latch
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Ah, neat - he has his own discord!?

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Yep, I'm getting into that. Cool cool cool.

timid tendon
late mist
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Hello everyone
I have a lore question regarding something unspeakable grotesque
That i question how that is in 5E D&D but not the Dark Sun Campaign

The Atropal & Atropus
From ' The Tomb of Annihilation '

These things are an abomination to celestial kind
And apparently Atropus is in Realm Space orbiting the planet Glyth

My question is
Would a Warlock be able to make a pact with an Atropal
And would that make them an undead Warlock due to the nature of the Atropal

jagged apex
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far as i know yes, as do to the nature of what they are, they tend to be powerful enough entities to meet the criteria for a warlock patron, at least those like the one in that adventure, to elaborate on that would arguably be spoilers

late mist
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Alright thank you

jagged apex
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also while i would agree is grotesque, i would not say it is unspeakably so, that sounds more the sort of thing one might describe beings from the far realm such as the kaorti or the Uvuudaum

late mist
jagged apex
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sounds more like something for #1029833015423143957 for that campaign specifically, and even then i saddly have not gotten to play through the campaign myself, not from a lack of trying mind you

late mist
late mist
jagged apex
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yes

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many things surrounding that adventure, the characters, and events i find interesting in fact

late mist
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I was shocked to know about it when I watch the Dungeon Dad vid about it
And then I went to search what campaign setting it was found
What surprised me is this creature was brought into 5E from previous editions
And yet other stuff were left back to the TSR years

jagged apex
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they are not specific to any setting

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to my knowledge they were simply first used in 5e via that adventure

late mist
jagged apex
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eh, there is more to it, but the video i dm'd you will explain that much and more and is arguably outside the scope of this channel

late mist
late mist
storm dagger
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Atropus is named as an Elder Evil. Overall it’s a scary thing.

jagged apex
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incase the name of "the world born dead" was not scary enough indicator to describe a massive undead planet sized entity

untold sandal
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The wiki on Marids mentions that they have the following ability:

Once every year they could alter reality but only as a gift to non-genies.

I don't have the book that this reference was taken from, does anyone know what would happen to a Marid genie if they used their reality altering powers for a non-genie? Is there some sort of form of punishment for genies?

sharp owl
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I think they're only capable of doing it for non-genies, as in it's not possible for them to do it for another genie

untold sandal
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Is there any lore relating to genie laws or the punishment of genies? Specifically Marids? I'm mainly curious what would be some big laws they would have (other than basic expected stuff like murder/theft etc.), and what kind of punishments exist

hard portal
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I just realized, is the Ethereal Plane technically some sort of spiritual plane, that's why it leads to the outer planes, while the Astral Plane is technically the Psychic Plane due to it's mind link, and the fact that it can only access planes that effect the material plane.

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Mind blown

late mist
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Huh interesting
I thought the souls ascend to ethereal and then depending on your god , you head to the afterlife they've provided for their worshippers
or with gods of species like elves , orcs , goblins , halflings
They just go their God's afterlife

#

Sorry

vital cloudBOT
#
No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

hard portal
#

Man, just when I thought I got it down

#

Cuz I'm tryna figure out a way to differentiate them, because to me, they sound pretty similar imo

untold sandal
#

What is the most powerful aquatic creature in D&D? I found ancient dragon turtle at CR 24, and kraken at CR 23, are there any others? Leviathan is too low at CR 20

late mist
sharp owl
#

Remember that CR doesn't describe every single monster, just a sample of one to be used in the game. As such, there could be krakens stronger than dragon turtles and leviathans stronger than krakens

untold sandal
#

fair enough, are there any other uber powerful water creatures other than those then?

sharp owl
#

Those are the big hitters

untold sandal
#

great ty

unkempt merlin
#

It's also not really a lore thing (CR that is)

sharp owl
#

Yeah, exactly

#

it's purely a mechanical thing for playing D&D as a game

untold sandal
#

yea, I was just trying to think of a way to get the info I needed. Im trying to determine what the most powerful gargantuan type creature is on the Elemental Plane of Water, since vortices in any body of water can just transport aquatic creatures into the plane, it's basically a matter of answering "whats the most powerful water creature anywhere"

jagged apex
#

it does not need stats to exist in the lore

true solstice
#

Has anyone actually made up their own Owlin lore?

#

Cause the Strixhaven book has... Well, not much

cinder cloud
main canopy
#

Is there a way for a humanoid to become a hag besides hexblood race? Is hag creation touched on in any older editions?

I am setting up a quest where a lone sea hag kidnapped some sailors to eat and spared the woman in the group to turn her into a hag and eventually form a coven. So far I have that shes making her eat the "soup" to avoid starving and freezing in the hag's underwater cave.

Following the fey logic of "if you do the haggy thing you get closer to becoming one"

cinder cloud
main canopy
#

Thank you

feral lintel
pallid flower
#

They’re in hibernation though

feral lintel
#

those are the giant whale things, right?

pallid flower
#

Yeah

#

And they are in Exploring Eberron which isn’t a WOTC product

late mist
untold sandal
pallid flower
#

It’s kind of meaningless to make a stat block, since it’d be a Tarrasque with 100x health and regeneration

#

Taking out the moon and cutting off the plane the Kar’lassa is associated with is a possible way to defeat it

untold sandal
#

Understood, yea no need for a statblock really it’s just a plot device

#

Do they live in the Plane of Water?

pallid flower
#

Material plane’s ocean

#

You can do whatever ofc, it’s your campaign

iron saffron
timid tendon
#

Yeah theyre less monsters you fight and more background details to build a story around

#

You dont give a stat block to Mount Hotenow in neverwinter, for example

untold sandal
untold sandal
#

What reasons would a Kraken have to make a pact with a warlock (Fathomless suggests it). What goals and needs do Krakens have that they could possibly stand to benefit from making a pact with a weak mortal creature?

static smelt
#

Is Strahd ruling as Strahd IX or Strahd XIII in 5e?

fallow leaf
#

Krakens are aquatic creatures, they likely need jobs done on land

#

Krakens are not mindless animals, they’re more intelligent than any mortal can be without the aid of magic

untold sandal
#

fair enough, so... what kind of jobs on land would a kraken want doing? I just don't know what their goals are. Do they just live to kill?

fallow leaf
#

Krakens are power hungry beings who enjoy being worshipped. It could reasonably be any goal that they couldn’t/would prefer not to accomplish by themself

sharp owl
crude blaze
#

He’s not like the vampire emperor in Eberron who’s pretending to be his own descendants.

feral lintel
#

Its the same one since the start

static smelt
#

"Count Strahd Von Zarovich
Lord Strahd is the Darklord of Barovia. He rules his domain
from Castle Ravenloft as Strahd IX; a descendent of Strahd I.
In actuality, Strahd I and Strahd IX are the one and the
same--a vampire. As a mortal, Strahd fell in love with
Tatyana Federovna; the bride of his younger brother Sergei.
In his jealousy, Strahd murdered his brother and became
the Darklord of Barovia; which was swept away into the
Demiplane along with its ruler. Since then, Strahd is cursed
to seek incarnations of Tatyana for eternity. "

#

Sorry should of edited that I found the answer when I did

scarlet sigil
crude blaze
scarlet sigil
#

Ah, AL strikes again. Thanks.

balmy pulsar
#

Hey there guys, I’ve got a question. In the Bigby’s Tome of Giants book, it talks about these Scions of different giant deities. I was thinking of using a Scion of Surtur in my current campaign.

But I was wondering- do any scions of Surtur actually exist in any D&D lore? I’ll be using them as a starting point if they do! Thank you!
— and please ping me to make sure I see this message!

reef cape
iron saffron
#

Empyreans (aka scions) aren't true demi-gods but are more powerful than mortals. In past D&D editions they would be considered quasi-deities with divine rank 0.

crude blaze
#

The book also tries to integrate some existing lore to make it setting agnostic, while introducing new lore as completely agnostic. Scions of the giant gods are an example of the latter.

crude blaze
#

I don't think Empyreans are referred to as Scions anymore

unkempt merlin
#

Empyreans are Titans, which are a different type of quasi-deity than demigods

crude blaze
#

Yeah iirc they're referred to as not quite demigods

balmy pulsar
iron saffron
#

Not that I know of.

crude blaze
#

In theory, there is one

#

Diancastra is technically a demigoddess child of Annam

#

and all the other gods are the children of the primary god

iron saffron
#

Right, she first appeared in 2E Monster Mythology.

reef cape
#

Nope. Diancastra is not a scion, she's a goddess. Giant scions are the grandchildren of Annam, fathered by Surtr, Stronmaus, Thrym, Memnor, Skoraeus or Grolantor.

#

Diancastra is no more a scion than any of her brothers.

#

The scions are her nieces and nephews though

crude blaze
#

Right, I forgot the Scions are literally referred to as Annam's grandchildren

reef cape
balmy pulsar
#

Ah dang, ah well- I suppose that means I’ll have to make up my own!

#

I’m thinking of adapting the “against the giants” module from Tales from the Yawning Portal, so it’ll have to be a fire giant

#

Which evil goddess do you think would be an interesting mother for a Scion of Surtur?

#

If it’s against the giants, I’m half tempted to say Lolth

iron saffron
#

Why a goddess? Why not a mortal giant? Look at Greek mythology where gods fathered with mortal women.

#

Lolth doesn't have an establish relationship with Surtur.

#

A child of two gods would be at least a demi-god (divine rank 1).

balmy pulsar
reef cape
reef cape
iron saffron
balmy pulsar
#

Sorry!

#

Thank you for your time, folks!

feral lintel
#

in the quote, an empyrean of a storm god/dess is refered to as scion of [name]

crude blaze
#

That said, it could also just be WOTC saying that from now on, giant scions can just be represented with Empyrean stats

feral lintel
#

i wasnt really referring to is as some kinda type thing, was just pointing out that it was a thing

iron saffron
#

Empyreans
Scions of the Gods

reef cape
#

Sure, but in this context "scion" just means "child of". You know, the common use of the word. Giant Scions are another thing

feral lintel
#

-# man i really wanna run my titan based campaign
Giant scions are still children of the giant gods

reef cape
#

Technically, they are demigods and whatever, mind you. But, you know, they're like a... specific subcategory of demigods.

eager meteor
#

What happens to devils who die in the blood war? If they die in avernus are they just gone? Where do they go when they die after they're dead?

#

Also I don't really understand how devils are "made". Does a lemure get a soul and then get "promoted" to devil?

iron saffron
#

If devils are killed in the Nine Hells then they die permanently.

iron saffron
# eager meteor Also I don't really understand how devils are "made". Does a lemure get a soul a...

A lemure is a former mortal soul in devil form. If it does well it'll get promoted to a lesser devil.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Lemure#Promotion

It was presumed that the mindlessness of the lemures was by design so that the baatezu could easily influence the lower caste into choosing the path of evil. With this mindlessness came the lack of a "lesson" that the lemure needed to learn if it wanted a promotion. Souls that arrived in the Nine Hells in the form of lemures, driven only by their desire to do evil, had the many rules of Baator driven into what passed for their minds by patrolling amnizu.

eager meteor
feral lintel
#

yes

eager meteor
#

oh alright

eager meteor
calm crest
#

They are absorbed utterly by their plane of origin if they die there.

iron saffron
#

If a demon that gets killed on the Abyss then its essence gets absorbed by the Abyss itself and another demon will form from the Abyss with that essence.

calm crest
#

Lemures are sometimes compelled to fight by stronger devils. The survivor is promoted.

iron saffron
#

Being an evil mortal doesn't get rewarded very well in the afterlife...

calm crest
#

Dead evil mortals often become larvae. Some can be transformed into lemures by devils, but larvae in the Hells eventually metamorphosis into the primordial Ur-Baatorian nupperibos naturally. Devils make a point of “demoting” as many nupperibos as possible into lemures.

storm dagger
#

Though that is Older Lore.

#

Current Lore is that Nupperibos are the souls of the worthless, who are not fit to climb the Hierarchy of Hell.

#

A lemure emerges from the Styx wiped of memory, yet the patterns of evil it performed in life remain indelibly inscribed upon its soul…

But those who lacked ambition cannot climb the hierarchical ladder of the Hells.

They instead step down, becoming nupperibos.

—Mordenkainen

thorn current
#

I'm writing a plot about an all powerful God/Being who has been essentially 'restarting' civilisation once they became powerful enough to threaten his position of power for many, many cycles of thousands of years. It starts with 'warning shots' that are just beams of light that crash down across the planet boring huge holes, and it'll involve being able to visit 'fractured' versions of past 'loops' that still exist.
Is there a God or other powerful being/entity in D&D lore that's anywhere close to this that I could draw inspiration from?

iron saffron
feral lintel
#

is there anywhere i can find more info about Bigby? IN terms of personality and such? The Wiki and Bigby's GLory fo the Giants dont provide much

grim siren
#

Which wiki did you look at?

feral lintel
#

the FR wiki

#

But looking at the GW wiki also makes more sense

grim siren
#

Yep while the FR wiki crosses settings occasionally it's for the Realms and will only feature Realmsian info on a topic.

static smelt
#

Human + Half Orc = ?

rigid latch
feral lintel
#

and DnD doesnt do genetics

jagged apex
jagged apex
static smelt
feral lintel
#

Tieflings specifically are planetouched

#

its due to fiendish influence or magic they turn into a tiefling

#

not because of genetics

#

if you wanted "genetics" that would be cambions

jagged apex
#

tieflings are a form of planetouched and there are similar entities for different humanoids historically depending on the edition, like tanarruks historically were considered an orc equivalent

static smelt
crude blaze
#

Yeah, a literal "half-fiend" is a cambion

feral lintel
jagged apex
crude blaze
#

And even then, the new cambions are proof that they can just be people corrupted by the Lower Planes, not necessarily born of them.

jagged apex
#

besides orcs are people too, now so more so than even past editions, so no reason to believe a half orc with diluted orc heretage would be anything special or specific

static smelt
# feral lintel what

Dwarves aren't plane touched
A dwarf and a non dwarf make a half dwarf
The half dwarf's children will be half dwarf until they have children with another dwarf
Humans can't tell the difference between a half dwarf and a dwarf and the stats are likewise identical but dwarves can tell

#

And if I remember the same is for Half Elves too

feral lintel
#

not sure why youre comparing dwarves to tieflings

static smelt
#

So I was wondering if the same is for half-orcs

feral lintel
#

youre the one who brought up tieflings

static smelt
#

I'm saying is human an empty vessel or base line

feral lintel
#

i made 4 comments, and that was it

#

also what

iron saffron
#

I don't think you're asking an actual lore question...

static smelt
#

Half dwarf

#

This is the example, forget tieflings

iron saffron
#

Okay...?

feral lintel
#

im still confused what youre asking

static smelt
#

"The fertility and offspring of half-dwarves was similar to that of half-elves. If a half-dwarf mated with a pureblood dwarf, the offspring would be a pureblood dwarf. If a half-dwarf mated with another half-dwarf or a nondwarf, the offspring would be a half-dwarf."
So my question is, is that the same with half orcs

feral lintel
#

half orcs are not dwarves

static smelt
feral lintel
#

... did you at least check out the half orc page

iron saffron
#

Ask your DM. D&D doesn't go into fractions of heritage beyond half.

static smelt
jagged apex
crude blaze
#

Tieflings aren't half fiends. Those are cambions.

jagged apex
#

i know

static smelt
#

Tieflings aren't the question, that was a bad example

iron saffron
#

Tieflings and aasimar are special cases as they're more of "mutants" rather than true half-fiend/celestial.

jagged apex
#

what i am saying one with less than half fiendish blood could be a tiefling, but that is not obvious by looking at the name like half-orc is

static smelt
#

We've got two cases of: half dwarf, half elf is the same of that for half orc?

feral lintel
static smelt
feral lintel
#

if its not on there, then its something to ask your DM

static smelt
#

I am the DM I'm asking about lore

feral lintel
#

then its up to you

static smelt
#

I'm not Ed Greenwood

feral lintel
#

nobody said you were

#

your table, your rules, your lore. Greenwood has no bearing on your game

ionic rivet
#

This channel is for discussing official D&D lore.
For how you want to run things at your games... that's up to you.
And you can bounce ideas in #dm-discussion

feral lintel
#

simply put, there is nothing in official lore that says anything about it

static smelt
#

Okay so literally everything that's just been discussed can be thrown out then included the focus on tieflings and their children

ionic rivet
#

Yes - your table, your rules.

#

You can draw inspiration from official D&D lore.
But ultimately, do what's fun for your table.

feral lintel
#

But this channel is for whats written in the books

static smelt
feral lintel
#

and there isnt one for this scenario

#

not everything is covered by the lore, especially biology and genetics

static smelt
crude blaze
#

There literally isn't one

static smelt
#

I had to explain half dwarves three times and show the wiki page to explain there is precedent

feral lintel
#

FR wiki is probably the best place to look, save asking Greenwood himself

crude blaze
#

Genetics aren't a thing in D&D, especially when it comes to the minutiae of how many "percentages" of different species make up an individual.

iron saffron
#

What the half-dwarf wiki entry pretty much covers all that there is officially. If it's not there then there's a very good chance it's not covered officially.

static smelt
#

I'm not talking %s

feral lintel
#

if its not on there, and people like Scarlet and OldMan arent saying anything otherwise, its not there

ionic rivet
#

Yeah at this point if you want something more official than "there isn't anything" you're best off contacting Ed Greenwood and getting their opinion

#

You've reached the end of official lore

feral lintel
#

If anyone is gonna know about FR lore, its him

jagged apex
#

published lore is not the end all be all, that is determined by you as a player and your dm, even when using an established setting

static smelt
#

Okay cool it's unclear

feral lintel
#

they have also started just leaving more spae for DMs and their own lore in the official material anyway

jagged apex
#

if you mean ed greenwood, yeah, he made the setting, would be surprised if there was anything about it he did not know

feral lintel
#

-# wonder what he thinks of the PDK UA

jagged apex
#

sure some things in the lore go into detail but you are never gunna get everything detailed in the highest degree dnd has as much to do with creativity as it does what is published in the books, if not more so

iron saffron
#

Even though the Forgotten Realms has been covered in detail by Ed Greenwood/TSR/WotC over 50+ years there is still a lot of empty spaces for DMs to fill or add.

jagged apex
#

and even if not, different iterations exist, like one example i know of that has been published and become popular to some degree is aquisitions inc, which is still the forgotten realms but an alternate/different version of it as far as it's setting is

#

so if they are willing to promote alternative itterations, that just makes it all the more clear you are free to deviate from the published lore for your games, even more so than it already is

prisma siren
# static smelt Human + Half Orc = ?

Xanathar's Guide to Everything has tables that list parentages for half elves, half orcs, and tieflings. Orc + human, orc + half orc, human + half orc, and half orc + half orc can all produce half-orc offspring.

jagged apex
static smelt
#

Half-Orc Parents
d8 Parents
1–3 One parent was an orc and the other was a human.
4–5 One parent was an orc and the other was a half-orc.
6–7 One parent was a human and the other was a half-orc.
8 Both parents were half-orcs.

feral lintel
#

anyway, on another topic, with the release of the new MM and its titans, is there a list of titans throughout the ages? And any personal favorites of any if you want to share?

#

FR Wiki only lists 6

jagged apex
#

well not every page is gunna be 100% up to date, also it is still specifically 1 setting, if it does not have any relation, impact, or relation with the forgotten realms, likely will not be listed there

feral lintel
#

yeah, the titans page on the FR wiki just lists the Empyrean, Astral Dreadnought, Tarrasque, Kraken, atropal... and only the scion of grolantor

reef cape
#

All the scions are titans, that's a bit strange

jagged apex
#

probably they just have not gotten around to making pages for each of them, remember the wiki is regulated partially do to being done by people, thus sometimes it can take time for something to be added

feral lintel
#

yeah. Anyone got a list of titans throughout editions though?

calm crest
#

The 3e era Abominations would probably qualify.

feral lintel
#

are there nihilistic GOOs

#

or like Great Old ONes who follow something similar to nihilism

reef cape
#

Dendar?

#

That depends on your definition of what constitutes nihilism

feral lintel
#

Uh, life is meaningless

reef cape
#

That's many other schools of philosophy besides nihilism, but, yeah. Dendar fits.

feral lintel
#

alrighty then, me go research now, Thank you!

#

Was looking for some cult or being that would benefit from a blob eating everything

reef cape
#

... Have you read the azure bonds books?

#

The finder's stone trilogy.

#

It does feature a giant blob that eats everything. And cultists of that giant blob

#

Moander, to be precise. God of rot, corruption and decay.

feral lintel
#

i have not no

#

but that seems to slot in rather well actually

#

Moander eh?

reef cape
#

Yep. Basically entropy, personified as the force that reduces corpses to fungal masses, crawling insects and other forms of base hunger.

#

Cultists of Moander tend to be rather nihilistic.

feral lintel
#

Neat!

reef cape
#

Oh, and he hates beholders, for some reason.

feral lintel
#

i mean, who wouldnt

#

beholders hate each other already

reef cape
#

Some elves pay homage to Moander as a force to be used to stave off the approach of civilization and as a personification of renewal.

feral lintel
#

interesting... anti civilization vibes?

reef cape
#

But most cultists are just like... "Moander will free us from life" and stuff like that.

#

"We shall all be one in Moander's digestive track"

#

Well, it's not that Moander has an opinion on civilization. I'm not sure it is sapient, or even sentient. But it is the personification of rot and decay

#

And you'll understand why rot and decay are much more adverserial forces to farmers and city dwellers than to wild elves in the forest, where decay cna be seen as something akin to a positive, or at least neutral force.

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

yeah, makes a bit of sense for people to use him as a symbol tho

reef cape
#

But yeah, to my knowledge, he was invented for the Findler's Stone trilogy, which are pretty good books by the way.

#

And then expanded upon by several pieces of Forgotten Realms lore, some of them signed by Greenwood himself

jagged apex
#

his personality does not seem to lend himself to nihilism though

reef cape
#

Ah, goddamn. Faith and Avatars did give him a personality.

#

It does go against the spirit of his presentation in the Findler's Stone a bit, but who cares.

jagged apex
#

eh, he was in 2e and 3e, so could be differences depending on when that book was written

reef cape
#

Oh, and if you want more... Articulate "nihilistic" bad guys, you've got the night hag Ravel Puzzlewell from Planescape Torment? Doesn't care about everything, does most stuff out of curiosity, tried to destroy Sigil because she believed, perhaps correctly, that it's the lady of pain's prison. No matter how much Sigil's destruction may harm the multiverse

#

Not that she especially likes the lady of pain, but she just doesn't like prisons as a concept.

jagged apex
#

and technically 5e, as the last parts of his history section are cited as being from the sword coast adventurers guide and a tweet by ed greenwood

feral lintel
#

hmmm... is she an archhag?

reef cape
#

The concept wasn't developped by then, but she's as close to being a goddess as a night hag gets.

jagged apex
#

Moander apparently was in an alliance with Shar until he was tricked into breaking it, so that definitely set him back

#

guess Loviatar did not take kindly to him eating her sister

reef cape
#

Otherwise, for less articulate, but fitting the bill of the vibe you're looking for, you've obviously got Orcus

jagged apex
#

yeah he literally desires to be the last entity in the multiverse, his plans are less to get his desired outcome but to get it faster as in theory given the last time he came back from death, he effectively is indestructible and will always comeback

#

if that does not scream nihilism on a cosmic scale idk what does

feral lintel
#

yeah, but im not sure if he would utilize a Blob of Annihil- actually he would with that skull floating on the inside

#

Moander from how Incubus describes THEM sounds really cool though

jagged apex
#

from what i know all you need for one of those is a dead god's corpse and some weird toxic astral waste, what ever that is

#

he easily could make one or be one, as his vestage of Tenembrous last i checked is still among the dead gods in the astral sea

feral lintel
#

hnnnng that makes much more sense 😭

jagged apex
#

and might be part of what might have robbed him of any chance at true godhood but also cemented his existance and why he was able to come back multiple times despite being destroyed in a case that would normally cause him to stop existing as we know of him

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

yeah, and the god skull inside is the nail in the coffin

jagged apex
#

far as i know of it from what has been revealed about it thus far those blocks could happen by sheer chance, but if one knows what makes one, a powerful enough being or one with enough resources could definitely make one

feral lintel
#

Ok, Orcus it is

#

thanks Incubus and Scarlet!

jagged apex
#

though i am curious what toxic astral waste even is?

#

i hope they at least explain that to some degree in the monster's entry

reef cape
#

Same as any toxic waste, but in the astral?

jagged apex
#

yeah, that is my best guess without any idea beyond what bits have been revealed so far ahead of the new MM release

feral lintel
#

Not seeing anything regarding Astral Waste dndThink

jagged apex
#

yeah the reveal on twitter is the first i heard of the term

feral lintel
#

might be reffering to how if you are consumed by one, your dust is sent to the Astral Sea?

#

or it exploding when it dies

jagged apex
#

also my bad, was misremembering, was not the twitter post but rather the article it was featured in on dnd beyond, quote "A blob of annihilation is what happens when astral toxic sludge fuses with the corpse of a god while drifting through Wildspace, suddenly gaining sentience, hunger, and malice." end quote

tawny raven
#

I’ve got a question regarding something that’s been bugging me. Devils have Imps, Demons have Quasit, do Yugoloths have their own devious little creature?

#

I feel like you would be a missed opportunity if they didn’t

sharp owl
#

Yugoloths are different from devils and demons in that they're more artificial and so don't have the same hierachial structures as the other two fiend-families

#

While devils are hierarchal out of a sense of order and demons are hierarchal as an emergent property of their chaotic, might-makes-right nature, Yugoloths are neither of those things

#

They were commissioned by Asmodeus from a coven of hags to be an army for the Blood War. But the codex that controls them was lost

#

Each type of yugoloth was created as a specific purpose; brute, tactician, spellcaster, etc

#

That's why there isn't the "bottom of the rung grunt" type yugoloth. The closest you'd get are mezzoloths, the swarm-troop type yugoloth

Mezzoloths are insectile yugoloths that seek power and souls in the service of fiendish lords. These greedy, violent yugoloths are more direct than most of their scheming brethren, but what they lack in guile they make up for in persistence and numbers.

tawny raven
#

Ohhhh ok

#

Thank you so much for answering my question!

opal cedar
#

Ho knows of the information of a particular type of Scrolls
(Black Scrolls of Ahm)
And thar magic items description block

sharp owl
opal cedar
sharp owl
#

So what are you asking?

opal cedar
#

Does anyone have any info
on what that item description would be

#

Game statwise

sharp owl
#

That's not a lore question

opal cedar
#

Where would you recommend I ask

sharp owl
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

opal cedar
#

Thank you for your help

orchid galleon
#

So do you guys think dragons can actually walk on their hind legs? There are many depictions of dragons standing on their hind legs but that may just be like how a bear can get on it's hind legs when attacking, but can't remain that way for long.

sharp owl
#

There are dragons in D&D lore that stand on their hind legs

#

Bahamut is one, many pieces of time dragon art depict them that way, a lot of ancient dragons are shown that way

rigid latch
#

Just got my copy of Sword Coasr Adventurer’s guide, and i have to say it is waaaaaay better than what ddb showcases it to be

orchid galleon
sharp owl
#

Yes, they can walk on them too

orchid galleon
#

How do you know this? Can you point me to some resources about it?

jagged apex
#

first thing that comes to mind for me are wyverns

#

else only other such dragons i can think of are half dragons, depending how loosely we are willing to consider dragons in this sense

sharp owl
orchid galleon
sharp owl
#

No, I cannot right now (and the ping isn't necessary)

#

I'm going off memory and don't have the ability to pull up the sources

orchid galleon
#

Just trying to make sure it's clear who i'm addresing, since we have more than two people in this discussion at this point.

vital cloudBOT
#
No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

orchid galleon
#

It can get confusing who is addressing what.

sharp owl
#

You can make it clear without sending a notification ping

jagged apex
#

from what i recall dragons while they can do so, don't really do so actively cuz their anatomy does not really lend it self towards walking in such a manner long term, to my knowledge if they do walk in such a manner they usually are only doing so short distances or more often in some combat situations against say giants for example

#

else is just more comfortable for them to walk on all 4s so to speak

orchid galleon
#

Yeah, that's my understanding too, as i said, like a bear would.

#

A bear can take a few steps on it's hind legs so he can use it's front paws to hit with, but soon enough it needs to go back to all fours.

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge the last time such specific info about their anatomy would have been detailed is 3.5e's draconomicon

#

so you could always check that source if you have access to it

orchid galleon
#

The question is interesting to me because walking on their hind legs would be necesarry if dragons wanted to use their front limbs in any manner such as manipulating things. I don't think it's ever been made very clear exactly how adept at tool use dragons are.

sharp owl
#

What setting are you asking about? That might help narrow things down

jagged apex
orchid galleon
#

I guess the default one, Forgotten Realms, that tends to be the guideline for most custom settings.

sharp owl
#

For example some of the elder dragons of Arcavios, the plane where Strixhaven is located, explicitly stand and walk on their hind legs

jagged apex
sharp owl
#

Specifically Tanazir Quandrix and Galazeth Prismari

#

I think Beledros Witherbloom too

jagged apex
orchid galleon
#

Well magical items sure, i'm talking more about if the dragon wanted to create something on it's own.

sharp owl
#

Yes, there is dragonic artifice

jagged apex
#

i don't see why that would include magical items

sharp owl
#

Dragons make a lot of things

jagged apex
#

they are easily intelligent and magical enough in most cases to make such things if they set their minds to it, only potential exception is maybe the white dragon

orchid galleon
#

Unless they use telekinesis i imagine they would have to learn to walk like humans to achieve such things, i doubt one can use their snout for such tasks.

jagged apex
#

not at all, especially these days as i mentioned

#

only restriction i know about a dragon and it's "hands" is they are not able to perform the hand gestures a humanoid would be able to for spells so often their spells are created without such a component being needed

sharp owl
#

I don't think that's true, at least I can't find anything to support or suggest it

#

While it's only a rule and not lore, the variant rule for "Dragons as Innate Spellcasters" says they only ignore material components, but otherwise have no restriction beyond spell level

jagged apex
#

regardless if it is or isn't, far as i know nothing is stopping them from using them to grip tools or make things, and again, in more recent iterations, shapechanging

#

from what i am aware the whiskers of a gold dragon are much more flexible and dexterous, assuming i have not been misinformed

#

but i doubt gold dragons would use those for such tasks

#

apparently 3.5e draconomicon has this on the subject "A dragon's four feet resemble those of a great bird. Each foot has three or four clawed toes facing forward (the number varies, even among dragons of the same kind), plus an additional toe, also with a claw, set farther back on the foot and facing slightly inward toward the dragon's body, like a human's thumb." so that can at least give some idea

#

though a few sentences later it does state they are not truely prehensile and quote "not precise enough for tool use, writing, or wielding a weapon, but a dragon can hold and carry objects." end quote

#

yeah honestly seems 3.5e draconomicon more or less addresses the subject on pages 6 and 7, regarding how their front legs can function and what their limitations are in the general sense and far as i know newer lore has not contradicted any of it, though i could be wrong about it be contradicted

severe basin
#

Why are Aboleths immortal

jagged apex
#

cuz they are biologically unaffected by anything but fatal wounds and even if you do kill it, in 5e last i checked they just reform a new body on the elemental plane of water, so they don't really die, else is just part of their basic biology as these potent alien horrors

#

either way, if you can't die, you are usually by definition immortal, and at least are biologically immortal so they ain't gunna die from old age or disease from what i am aware

#

honestly i doubt the why is important, is not like it could be counteracted, least far as i know

crude blaze
# severe basin Why are Aboleths immortal

They’re essentially weakened versions of elder gods. They’re not strong enough to be unkillable anymore, but they’re still “godly” enough that they can’t truly be killed

crude blaze
severe basin
#

I don't know how to feel about them making them reform in the far realm

#

Canonically the aboleths ruled over earth before the gods came

#

And the decision to move their spawn point to the far realm is questionable

jagged apex
#

abeir-toril, not earth, that's a different place

severe basin
#

They ruled over the material plane

jagged apex
#

is rare for an aboleth's body to be killed to begin with

severe basin
#

Their cities (or what remain of them) are on the material plane

jagged apex
#

they are manipulators and are not often directly involved especially these days

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

far as i know they did not originally reform at all if slain, let alone on the plane of water, so i would just view changing such a detail a minor one if anything

feral lintel
#

not sure how i feel about them reforming in the Far Realm now

severe basin
jagged apex
#

could just wait till the book comes out so you can read the full context of the entry yourself, is what i would do

severe basin
#

Check your dms

jagged apex
#

and again seems like a minor change at most

severe basin
#

They cut a lot of lore for a lot of monsters out of the new monster manual

jagged apex
#

remember, it is ment to be setting agnostic

#

some lore is specific to certain settings

severe basin
#

The old monster manual was great for non dms because it had two things aside from just stat blocks

  1. Cool lore
  2. Cool art
    Now it's a lot more dm focused than it was
jagged apex
#

i feel this is not the proper channel for this, especially when the book is not out yet

severe basin
#

Anyways time to delve much, much deeper into aboleth lore to figure out if I can get a better reason for why Aboleths are immortal than just "they are aboleths"

feral lintel
#

because magic

#

honestly, i feel like thats like asking why a wolf hunts

#

hmmm actually not a fan of that analogy

jagged apex
#

yeah like i said earlier, i doubt the why actually matters, if the gods couldn't do anything about it after their war with them i doubt anyone else could

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

oh no

jagged apex
#

far as i know being biologically immortal is just innate to some creature's nature in dnd, so just feels like a fair analogy to me

severe basin
#

Researching aboleth lore anyways

feral lintel
#

when in doubt, check the wiki

jagged apex
#

and remember some things in dnd are just flat out never explained and thus left to interpretation

severe basin
#

I know in earlier editions they gave us less "creative freedom" by actually explaining established monster lore

jagged apex
#

true but also not entirely, far as i am aware even back then some things were left deliberately vague or unexplained, at least compared to more recent lore for the various editions

#

granted i could be wrong about that

crude blaze
#

I wasn’t correcting you, just sharing some new information

jagged apex
#

fair, though i prefer to wait and see myself unless they just reveal it via their official means like dnd beyond or the like

severe basin
#

Why is the modron order of strength so goofy
In mortes planar parade it introduces 5 new modrons but the order of strength and hierarchy for them is Decadrone(10)<Nonadrone(9)<octadrone(8)<septadrone(7)<hexadrone(6)
With lower cr modrons up to the pentadrone, its Monodrone(1)<duodrone(2)<tridrone(3)<quadrone(4)<pentadrone(5)
This makes the final strength and hierarchy order;
1<2<3<4<5<10<9<8<7<6
Isn't that a bit weird? I feel like it should be 1<2<3<4<5<6<7<8<9<10
Or did I misread something and it actually is 1<2<3<4<5<6<7<8<9<10 and the hexadrones are stronger but have less authority

#

Wait a minute
Is primus just a circle

#

Because he is the strongest modron and God of modrons does he have infinite sides

#

Wait the monodrone is a circle

jagged apex
#

each modron has a specific role, strength not really a major factor and primus is only god like in his own realm, he is not a formal deity

#

and cr already has littel to do with lore to begin with

unkempt merlin
#

The hierarchy isn't (completely) in line with "mechanical" strength

#

(Bit of a mixing of game mechanics and lore there)

iron saffron
severe basin
#

Why does it suddenly switch from going up to going down halfway through

iron saffron
#

Primus isn't a deity but a title and rank. He is a god-like power though.

unkempt merlin
#

There is a difference between the "tons" and the "drones"

jagged apex
unkempt merlin
#

Hence why the numbers sort of "reset"

severe basin
#

Let me grab mortes real quick

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

Decatons are the least of the hierarch modrons, nonatons are above them

iron saffron
#

The modron ranks have been this way since 1E.

jagged apex
#

also just because all his subordinents are gemetric, does not mean he must be geomentric, a trend is not the same as a law

severe basin
#

Oh

severe basin
iron saffron
#

1E modrons were illustrated to be organic. It was in 2E Planescape that they appear more construct.

jagged apex
#

orcus even murdered him and impersonated him for a time back in the day

#

though Orcus was Tenebrous at the time

severe basin
#

I thought i heard somewhere that if Primus died, another modron would just promote into primus

jagged apex
#

normally, yes

iron saffron
#

A secundus would take over. Then someone below gets promoted to become a secundus.

severe basin
#

I see

jagged apex
#

what Tenebrous did, was completely abnormal and clearly not something the potent being of pure law accounted for

feral lintel
severe basin
#

I forget if modrons are made from lawful petitioners or not
Are they?

feral lintel
#

Theyre their own thing iirc

jagged apex
#

and the process as i recall is not instant, it takes some degree of time, which is why after murdering him Tenebrous could take his place, he basically just stepped in before the normal process could be carried out

iron saffron
#

When Orcus disrupted the March of the Modrons by having it occur years early it sent Mechanus into chaos.

jagged apex
severe basin
#

What happens to pure lawful neutral petitioners then

#

Or worshippers of primus

#

People whose destination would be Mechanus

iron saffron
#

There are LN gods who have divine domains on Mechanus.

jagged apex
severe basin
#

Interesting

iron saffron
#

Gods can have divine domains on places that are occupied by a large native Outsider population, like demons in the Abyss or devils in the Nine Hells.

jagged apex
#

modrons are if you think of it this way, natives of mechanus, petitioners are not, they sort of have to settle into their new life in the afterlife

iron saffron
#

They're sanctuaries that the deities have total control over.

jagged apex
#

yeah where divine realms are can vary especially depending on which edition or cosmology you are following, but the domain is where the god is both vulnerable but at their most powerful and has full control over it

severe basin
#

So if you're pure lawful neutral and go to mechanus, you'll end up in some other gods domain in mechanus?

iron saffron
#

You'll go to your LN god's domain.

jagged apex
#

much like how Asmodeus has complete control over the 9 hells and literally alter it on a whim

severe basin
#

What about Primus worshippers

jagged apex
#

he has none

#

as he is not a god and does not really concern himself with such things

severe basin
#

Let's say hypothetically someone wanted to worship him and did

jagged apex
#

he is basically the embody of Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus

#

it would take a massive amount of mortals for it to grant him sufficent status to grant clerical spells directly, assuming he'd be open to doing such a thing

severe basin
#

So if someone hypothetically decided to worship primus

#

Primus would just

jagged apex
#

"Primus was a manifestation of perfect logic and strict order. It was linked with the plane of Mechanus and they shared the same goals and actions." description of part of his personality cited as being from the planescape campaign setting back in 2e

severe basin
#

Dump them in another gods domain when they died

jagged apex
#

we have no idea as such a thing has never occured and has no indication it would occure, odds are most people don't even know about him unless they have studied the multiverse or the outer planes a lot

#

also from the same source is cited "While some believed it only concerned itself with the plane's modrons"

iron saffron
#

The majority of mortals on the Material Plane don't know the inner workings of the Outer Planes. All they know is that there's an afterlife with their deity.

jagged apex
#

were as 3.5e and 5e offer this bit of info regarding his personality "others believed Primus sought to extend perfect law and order throughout the entirety of the multiverse."

iron saffron
#

Remember that Primus is not a deity so he doesn't get his power from being worshipped. This means he doesn't seek out worshippers like gods do in order to maintain their divine power and rank.

severe basin
#

Mm

iron saffron
#

Yes, thank you. I typed too fast.

severe basin
#

I do that a lot

jagged apex
#

and given what is said to be his nature, if you were to try to worship him, that would be like trying to worship a plane of existance as a deity

severe basin
#

Okay here's a random lore question thats somewhat connected

jagged apex
#

nothing is stopping you, but you'd be kind of foolish to expect results, except maybe with the abyss, which is weird with it having a degree of sentience to it, like when it lashed out and murdered an entire pantheon of gods when they ripped a layer out of it by force

severe basin
#

If you worship Demogorgon, and are chaotic evil, pure chaotic evil, equal measure chaotic, equal measure evil,

#

Which layer of the abyss will you end up on when you die

jagged apex
#

demogorgon's as he would claim your soul since you worshiped him

#

like if you are worshiping him, he likely has dibs on your soul to try to become a proper deity like many other demon lords

severe basin
#

Does it not work the same way with Primus?

jagged apex
#

nope

iron saffron
#

A number of demon lords are trying to get more power by becoming deities, hence the demon worshipping cultists.

jagged apex
#

demogorgon is a demon independant of the abyss, primus is a manifestation of the plane itself

severe basin
#

Hm

jagged apex
#

it is like comparing a stone to mount everest

#

the similarities are minimal and broad at best

severe basin
#

I guess a better analogy would be what if you worshipped the shard of ultimate evil itself but even 5e monster manual and dungeon master guide reading dms don't know that exists

jagged apex
#

honestly such a thought would likely be processed as an insult by primus "It absolutely detested the tanar'ri of the Abyss, and held similar, if not as intense, enmity for the baatezu of the Nine Hells." cited from the 2e "hellhound: blood war" box set for the 2e planescape setting

severe basin
#

Mmm

jagged apex
#

despite being comparable in power to a greater deity in mechanus, he was not actual a deity and seemingly has no desire to become one

#

via his modrons he is basically trying to maintain order in the multiverse at all times, they are his agents as he basically can't seemingly leave mechanus and since is not a god can not send avatars of himself

#

all this is covered and cited on his forgotten realms wiki page

thorny hound
#

what exactly is "Force damage" lore wise? What are the sources of it

iron saffron
#

That's more of a gameplay mechanic question.

#

"Force" is a all emcompassing term for magical energy, from wall of force to energy blasts from Hank's energy bow.

feral lintel
#

whose energy what

iron saffron
feral lintel
#

the bow of cattie brie?

iron saffron
#

Yeah, she doesn't need to use arrows.

feral lintel
#

oooh

#

thought there was a guy named Hank who just went around with some kinda powerful bow lol

iron saffron
#

Yes, the D&D cartoon had Hank.

feral lintel
#

oh

calm crest
#

Hank the Ranger! Arguably the most useful of the Realm’s magic weapons, cartoon-wise at least.

#

The Dungeon Master kinda left Presto and Diana with the dregs. A hat that randomly produces stop signs, birthday cakes, and other gag spells is pretty terrible, and a pole that shrinks and grows isn’t that impressive considering most of the Acrobat stuff just comes from Diana being a gymnast.

iron saffron
feral lintel
#

👀 oooh

storm dagger
#

To go back to Primus for a second some concept art was made for him for 5e

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

i always have seen and heard others describe modrons this weird sort of blend of organic and inorganic, i imagine that despite the outward appearance primus would be of a similar nature

calm crest
#

Given Mechanus’ obsession with balance (equal hot and cold, light and dark, land and water, etc.) I wouldn’t be surprised if they are exactly half machine and half biological.

jagged apex
#

same, even if physically on the outside it does not seem obvious

storm dagger
#

They are not natural beings so it also doesn’t have to make sense

jagged apex
#

eh, depends on what you mean by natural, besides being obvious and making sense are two distinct things

#

cuz they are natural at least in comparison to other planar life native to the outer planes

ashen forge
#

Do domains of delight follow any naming conventions?

crude blaze
#

From the few we’ve seen, it doesn’t seem like it

ashen forge
#

Ah okay thx

storm dagger
#

A Domain of Delight is the opposite of a Domain of Dread

#

The Domains of Dread also don’t have consistent names.

#

Domain of Dread it exists to make its ruler unhappy.

#

Domain of Delight it exists to make its ruler happy.

#

This in turn means there can be pleasant Domains of Dread, and utterly horrible Domains of Delight.

crude blaze
#

The names of the Domains of Dread tend to be based around the core assumptions of the domain. For example, Dementlieu has a very French-sounding name because it’s a dark fantasy interpretation of Cinderella, a French fairy tale.

ashen forge
#

I'm making a domain of delight for my characters backstory and I just keysmashed to make the name lmao

storm dagger
#

Well they generally have a name that has some meaning

#

Fablerise, The Gloamimg Court, Prismeer, and the Summer Court are named in the DMG.

random jolt
#

Do the Githyanki have a library or an archive by chance? Because I distinctly recall in BG3 Lae'zel mention something about there being some Gith out in the Astral Sea gathering what knowledge they could uncover against Mind Flayers? Not sure when exactly they spoke about it, but I do know it was at camp during Act 1.

#

At first when trying to remember her exact words I figured "Oh she must've been talking about Tu'narath. That's like Githyanki capital right there." so I looked up the city, looked through maps, and while I am certain there may be a library or grand archive in Tu'narath, I got no names as to what the library itself is called if it even has a name or if there even is a library in Tu'narath.

rigid latch
#

As in, they have "discs" that store important information.

thorny hound
#

Is the Olympic pantheon still a thing in DnD or a relic of the past ?

modest badger
candid shard
#

Question: In the lore of campaign settings, such as Greyhawk, FR and Eberron, Dragons battle Giants. Yet, in campaigns set in recent history, the Dragons are MUCH MORE predominant than Giants. Why is this?

#

@misty scaffold

feral lintel
#

Because its in the game name

reef cape
feral lintel
#

that too

#

they lost that one

reef cape
#

Dragon civilization also fell, but dragons don't really need civilization.

#

While giants kind of do.

feral lintel
#

Im sure they would prefer the current set up anyway

reef cape
#

In the Forgotten Realms, the set-up is essentially that giants competed with dragons through vast knowledge of artifice and magic, a specific kind of magic that has mostly been lost. Through great and terrible magic weapons, etc...

#

While dragons were...Well, they were dragons. They don't need that stuff to compete.

feral lintel
#

When you realize the giants had to make Runic Colossus to better help hunt dragons

reef cape
#

So, after the Dracorage Mythal, once the elves basically threw the dragons at the giants, both civilizations were destroyed utterly. Except dragons did not lose as much as the giants. Because, you know, knowledge tends to be flammable.

reef cape
feral lintel
#

Yuh

#

Dragons still won tho

#

well "won"

reef cape
#

Technically neither the dragons nor the giants won that war. The elves did

feral lintel
#

yuh

reef cape
#

But they cheated by periodically turning every dragon into an omnicidal lunatic.

#

Destroying any chance they might have of ever having anything close to a civilization

#

And yeah, the dracorage mythal was broken in a novel. But, you know, it still left a long impact on their culture

feral lintel
#

im sure the divide between Chromatics, Metallics, and Ferrous divided them even before the mythal

unkempt merlin
#

In Eberron, dragons destroyed giant civilization due to the giants meddling with magic that they deemed too powerful (because it blew up a moon). So giants in eberron are living a very "ruins of their former selves" type situation

reef cape
#

Like, there were frequent collaborations, and dragons who established themselves as rulers recognized by all groups.

unkempt merlin
#

(Although I will note that dragons aren't exactly prominent in eberron. They primarily act through agents and being hidden. Most don't ever leave their continent)

feral lintel
#

Most of em are just trying to decipher the prophecy though, yeah?

unkempt merlin
#

The Chamber yes

#

But not every dragon is a part of it necessarily

reef cape
#

Anyways, yeah. Practically all settings, save Dark Sun, repeat the "dragons vs giants" thing, but in different ways. It's normal. It's an almost universal mythological motif.

feral lintel
#

big human looking guy vs big lizard guy

reef cape
#

You know, storm god against monster beast fighting in the primordial times. Zeus vs Typhon, Set vs Apep, Marduk vs Tiamat, Suzanoo-no-Mikoto vs Yamata-no-Orochi...

#

I'm prett sure Dark Sun is the only setting that doesn't repeat that motif.

feral lintel
#

whats the deal with giants and dragons in DS?

#

died out?

reef cape
#

I'm not sure there ever were dragons and giants in Athas

#

There are dragons now, but...

#

Well, no, there's one dragon now.

#

And he was born a human.

feral lintel
#

ah ic

calm crest
#

Athas had giants. Most have the heads of beasts and psionic powers in the modern age. The classic giant types were all killed by the Sorcerer-Kings.

reef cape
#

Ah, my bad. I did not know they were targets of the sorcerer-kings' genocide campaigns

calm crest
#

There is one Dragon on Athas. The Dragon, formerly a Sorcerer-King, a powerful psion/defiler.

#

Technically the other S-Ks are also trying to become dragons and other powerful characters have the potential as well.

reef cape
#

None have yet succeeded the way good old Borys, Butcher of Dwarves, has.

calm crest
#

Indeed. Three were very close. One is undead. One got killed by the beginning of the metaplot. One ended up in Ravenloft.

reef cape
#

Oh damn, how did I forget this? Dregoth was the one who genocided the giants!

balmy pulsar
#

Hey Lore folks, just need to know- what’s the current stste of Gauntlegrym? Who owns it, is it habituated, etc?

iron saffron
storm dagger
#

Dwarves have it

feral lintel
#

what exactly is the positive plane

cinder cloud
#

The opposite of the negative plane

#

But seriously it's the plane of negative energy

#

i.e. death/annihilation/darkness

crude blaze
#

The Positive Plane is essentially a plane associated with overwhelming life energy

cinder cloud
#

It's basically airless and featureless and filled with raw magical energy of a negative type

reef cape
#

The positive plane is filled with raw magical energy of the positive kind. In earlier editions, you were healed just by being there. Then you started being overwhelmed, gaining more and more hit points.

#

At the end, you explode.

cinder cloud
#

Too much of a good thing

#

In literal form

feral lintel
#

can be a bad thing yeah

reef cape
#

It's worth noting that neither of those places are good or evil.

feral lintel
#

just positive and negative

reef cape
#

But it's true that the negative plane is more friendly to undead.

feral lintel
#

iirc, there was also some sorta connection between them and the upper and lower planes?

reef cape
#

Not really, no? I'm not sure I can recall anything of the sort

crude blaze
#

I think the new DMG actually says that the Positive Plane is actually not survivable at all without help

#

It's just as dangerous as the Negative Plane

reef cape
#

Makes sense. It never was survivable without heavy spell protection in previous editions.

#

Since the spells that were used to survive it did not make the cut to this one...

feral lintel
#

burn baybe burn

crude blaze
#

Yeah, you probably need the help from some sort of high-tier Celestial or a god to survive out there. Which mind you is not lore, just speculation on my part.

jagged apex
#

or at the vary least if what i hear about it in the past is applicable, you at least would have to constantly harm yourself since the danger of the positive energy plane is basically being healed too much, causing you to kind of have your whole body become a like a cancer cell, growing out of control

reef cape
#

That was indeed a strategy one could use

crude blaze
storm dagger
empty stone
#

Excuse me, the crystal spheres/solar systems are just a part of the same prime material plane, right?

calm crest
#

In the most recent version of the cosmology, all wildspace systems exist in a singular Prime Material Plane.

iron saffron
#

It's been like that since 2E Spelljammer.

empty stone
#

ah, i wanted to ask because i read that apparently Baba Yaga has explored any and all Crystal spheres, which is obviously due to her hut, but has also explored the Feywilds and Shadowfells of those worlds?

jagged apex
#

they are the same

#

the shadowfell and feywilds are echos of the prime material plane, so they can be used to get to any, except maybe eberron do to it's self-contained cosmology, prime material world

#

if what you mean she has explored those planes of existance, that i am not aware of, far as i know being a hag if either she presumably lives in the feywilds

#

to quote the 2024 dmg as it describes said plane, reffered to collectively as the material realms "Most D&D worlds are located on the Material Plane, which has two planar echoes: the Feywild and the Shadowfell." end quote, so the 3 planes are sort of a package deal

empty stone
#

i'm just focusing on the implication of there being Feywild and Shadowfell versions of every planet revealed in D&D. There's probably a Feywild version of Planet Toril, a Shadowfell version of Planet Athas, etc

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge that is not how the feywild works

#

there is 1 feywild and 1 shadowfell

empty stone
#

yeah, the feywild dimension (where all feywild worlds reside) and the shadowfell dimension (where all shadowfell worlds reside). like how all the prime worlds reside in the prime material dimension

jagged apex
#

each are reflections of ALL the worlds in the prime material plane

#

like far as i am aware there is no wildspace in either the feywilds or the shadowfell, there is a sky, but that is just it, the sky

iron saffron
#

There hasn't been details on what seperates the echoes of the Feywild/Shadowfell worlds.

jagged apex
#

like if you walk into the feywild on say toril, it is possible to exist on a world other than toril

#

same goes for the shadowfell

#

i have never once heard of there being whole worlds in either the feywilds or shadowfell in published materials, the closest thing being domains as with the recent lore of the domains of delight and the older domains of dread which are drastically different from being entire worlds like you would consider say a planet

iron saffron
#

The Feywild and Shadowfell are relatively new, having been introduced in 4E (although they did have predecessors with the Plane of Faeries and Plane of Shadows, respectively).

storm dagger
iron saffron
#

Think Stranger Things' Upside Down World.

storm dagger
#

There are fey and shadow crossings you can enter into from each other

empty stone
#

That i know. like how Planet Toril's Underdark becomes the Feydark and Shadowdark respectively

jagged apex
#

both planes as i understand if anything are entire worlds onto themselves that mirror the prime material plane in general as a whole in different spectrums, the feywild having things brought about through the collective told tales of the various prime material worlds, ie fairy tales, and the shadowfell as it is known these days are dark reflections of the prime a sort of worst outcome like should a town narrowly avoid being destroyed, a counterpart of it in the shadowfell would resemble that town but in ruins

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

basically thinking there is a version of each planet in the feywild and shadowfell is overthinking it, fine for your own table and your games, but far as i know there is not anything in published to suggest that is the case in the published continuity put out by wizards of the coast and that they opperate under when developing new lore, adventures, ect...

storm dagger
#

I think just what Rosie is saying is that if you went into the Shadowfell on Athas you would be on a darker athas is all

#

Like how it works on Toril

jagged apex
#

well earlier it seemed they were under the impression there were entire worlds for each world in the prime

jagged apex
storm dagger
#

Well in practice it would work like that

#

Like they may not have Wildspace

jagged apex
#

like far as i know nothing suggests there are literally planets for each planet in the prime material plane, to my knowledge they are all reflected across the same plane and are not at all seperate

jagged apex
#

far as i know if there were versions of each planet, you would not be able to do such a thing at all, cuz you would not be able to leave that planet

#

unless i am just misunderstanding the question entirely

empty stone
#

I'm interpreting that snippet in Yaga's lore as:
Each crystal sphere (and the planets within) exist within the Prime Material Plane, and they probably have an echo where they can travel between.
Although I do wonder if you would be able to ride on a Spelljammer on Realmspace's Feywild (specifically Toril's Feywild) and just move through the cosmos until you get to Greyspace's Feywild (specifically Oerth's Feywild).

#

It's just such a weird odd small detail to add to a character which implicates things on a cosmic level.

vapid blaze
#

Isn't it kinda weird that elves cant sleep in D&D?

jagged apex
#

idk, it would just be a spelljammer across the feywild even if you could get one into the feywild, each world as i understand it has a section of the feywild that is a reflection of it, a specific section of the same feywild

feral lintel
iron saffron
jagged apex
# vapid blaze Isn't it kinda weird that elves cant sleep in D&D?

not really, besides they can, but they usually don't as it is terrifying to the average elf cuz how chaotic dreams are, is why they trance instead, you are only likely to see an elf sleep if they are the faithful of a deity who speaks through dreams to their faithful

vapid blaze
#

That's honestly cool

empty stone
#

Kinda like meditation. Not sleeping, exactly, but definitely being relaxed and conserving and regaining energy.

jagged apex
#

yeah, is kind of like meditation if you could still gain rest during the time and do light physical activity

vapid blaze
#

Is their eyes open while they do this?... That would be freaky lol

#

Like... Um what's up with Joe?

iron saffron
#

Their trance is like meditation.

jagged apex
#

presumably their eyes would be open, as they can do light activities while in their trance and still benefit from resting

#

but technically far as i know that sort of level of detail is not really specified and thus left up to the player

vapid blaze
#

So the people around would be questioning why they're elf friend Is staring at the wall lol?

calm crest
#

They are fully aware of their surroundings, so eyes open is not implausible.

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Again, that is flavour on the player's end.

jagged apex
#

usually if adventuring together, unless they are taking watch, the others would be sleeping when the elf does this most likely

vapid blaze
#

D&D races can be so interesting

empty stone
#

Nothing explicit in the lore, just sorta open-ended and up to interpretation.

vapid blaze
#

Yeah

jagged apex
#

yep, though these trances could be reliving past memories in their life, so in that case one can guess they might close their eyes and simply have it going on in their mind, nothing says you have to move so much as a single muscle, so it can easily be considered to depend on either the sitution or the individual, but meta wise, is just left up to interpritation

vapid blaze
#

What's a thing you find interesting in the D&D world?like anything really that you thought was pretty cool

feral lintel
#

Which setting

jagged apex
#

there are some elements of dnd's lore that will always be left vague or unexplained and thus left up to interpretation

iron saffron
#

There is no singular D&D world. There are many official campaign settings.

vapid blaze
#

I mean like the spells and the races... And the creatures... The stuff from the handbooks

jagged apex
vapid blaze
#

Oh alright

jagged apex
#

not really a lore question in either regard

calm crest
#

Based on the Complete Book of Elves, an elf in Reverie seems to have half-open eyes.

jagged apex
#

well some things change between editions so i feel even then you could consider that more so an example or one for that edition it was done for at the time, unless it specifically says so in the description for the complete book of the elves in the description cited, else it still seems is up for interpretation

#

but, neat detail you can lean into if you want

ashen forge
#

Question about the fey courts: I know about the unseelie and seelie courts and the gloaming and summer courts, but are there like minor fey courts for small ideas outside of life and decay and seasons?

iron saffron
ashen forge
#

Thx, so they fall into one of the two courts instead of a smaller one

jagged apex
#

well far as i know there might be smaller factions, but the two courts are the largest and most influential in the feywild if i am not mistaken

#

the weird but also neat thing about the fey courts is they are both pantheons but also sort of political factions for the fey

#

at least that has always been my understanding

tawny raven
#

Hey folks, I have a question for once that I think it’s not a weird one

#

So I’ve been learning about the Demon Lords and I have been wondering dose Juiblex have any followers on the material plane? (That aren’t slimes.)

sharp owl
#

Yes, almost every demon lord has mortal, humanoid followers

#

Also Juiblex is worshopped by a handful of aboleths

severe basin
#

We have like no lore for Pandemonium which makes me sad

#

The silly wind caves

cinder cloud
severe basin
#

I've read what we have though

#

It makes me want more

#

I also love Carceri

jagged apex
#

well the reason we don't have much info on in comparison to the abyss and nine hells is presumably because it is not as focused on or lived in as either plane

#

if i am not mistaken the most significant thing about pandemonium as a plane is it is where Miska the wolf spider's prison is located at least in the 5e continuity

cinder cloud
#

I don't know about most significant... Talos and Auril live there, for example.

jagged apex
#

well their realms were located there in the past

#

in fact most of those realms located at one point there were mostly from the tsr days

cinder cloud
#

Old lore is still lore

jagged apex
#

so not sure how much if any of those remain true as being located there

cinder cloud
#

If you have any contradictory sources, please feel free to share

jagged apex
#

personally though i'd argue miska's prison being located there is arguably more significant do to the threat he poses as one of the few beings known to be able to unite the demons of the abyss

#

well between 5e spelljammer and 5e planescape seems to indicate most if not all divine realms in the 5e continuity are either in the astral sea/plane or in the outlands, i could be wrong about that but many in planescape were outright relocated to the outlands, including the Labyrinth of Life and the Hidden Realm

cinder cloud
#

Taking a closer look, those changes did indeed happen in 4e and within the World Axis cosmology, but the current DMG uses the Great Wheel cosmological model, which would indicate those changes may have reverted (along with all the other 4e lore)

#

4e lore is the most recent, though, so there's a point to be made there

iron saffron
#

4E lore is pretty much ignored/retconned with 5E.

cinder cloud
#

Yeah, hence my assumption that most of everything 4e did is now undid. But that's a pretty sweeping statement. So... maybe visit Pandemonium and find out

iron saffron
#

Like you said above, 4E had a different cosmology and 5E uses the Great Wheel.

severe basin
#

And Pandemonium still doesn't have much lore
What it does have I love and I know a couple of my friends love it too because I've played in 3 adventures taking place in different planes and 2 of them took place in Pandemonium

#

I guess not every plane needs super detailed lore

#

And like a lot of inhabitants

cinder cloud
#

Yeah, the Nine Hells and the Abyss obviously have more lore since there are so many different creatures that live there.... Pandemonium is mostly barren and, well, chaotic. Not suitable for many creatures.

jagged apex
calm crest
#

(I don’t know how 4e could attempt Planescape, given the lack of an Outlands and thus Sigil…)

jagged apex
#

and i don't get how schm0 got 4e out of me explicitly saying the stuff i was referencing was from 5e sources, ie 5e planescape and 5e spelljammer

cinder cloud
#

That's what I was referencing

iron saffron
jagged apex
# cinder cloud The lore you cited for Auril's domain also known as Winter's Hall being moved to...

i misremembered the ones that were given as examples, thus edited and found that winter's hall indeed is on the topmost layer of pandemonium, my point remains some divine domains no longer may be there and even then, i'd argue given the threat he poses to the multiverse as one of the few who can unite the forces of the abyss, is more significant than the realms of the gods which are kind of separate to a degree given a god has complete control over their realm and can close it off if they wish

#

though is not too big a deal, just clarifying my earlier thing that you were replying to before i realized my mistake and edited it

eager bay
#

Does the world of Greyhawk have its own Underdark-like setting?

iron saffron
spare smelt
#

Is the colour of an (half-)orcs skin based on if they’re a mountain orc or grey orc? Assuming mountain is green

iron saffron
#

Where does it say that mountain orcs are green? Green orcs are a Warcraft or Warhammer thing.

pallid flower
storm dagger
silent atlas
#

Can there be more than one tarrasque at once in the forgotten realms

storm dagger
#

There only seems to be one at a time.

#

Seems is the important word.

calm crest
#

The Bloodstone module series, which is set in the Forgotten Realms, has more than one tarrasque. Granted, one of them isn’t on the Prime Material Plane.

peak owl
#

So, what are familiars, lore-wise? Are they alive, do they have a 'soul' if you will? Are they born when summoned and do they die at some point, or if you dismiss it?

tawny raven
#

I think they have souls as to the the fact that they are a spirit

#

And I don’t think they die as much as they are just dismissed