#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 43 of 1

unkempt merlin
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there is a lot of magic involved with "genetics" in most settings

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its not really genetics

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its (by and large) based on non scientific views of "bloodlines" and the like

gray ember
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Okay so no, I’ll make it up then lol

modest badger
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Considering that many tieflings as asmodeus tieflings due to a pact, it's not like it's genetics inherited through DNA but changes dealt by energies/magic.

gray ember
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Which changes their physical form, I’m asking if there’s ways to determine based on a particular tiefling’s physical traits which bloodline they’re a part of

modest badger
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But you can always look into the MtoF to see the other tieflings.
Some tieflings may also be descended from other random devils, or even demons (although 5e hasn't touched on abyssal tieflings outside a UA)

gray ember
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Yeah tbh abyssal Tieflings weren’t fun mechanically but that’s not for this channel

modest badger
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Asmodeus tieflings definitely have a look, and that is the explanation behind why post 4e tieflings have a more uniform look (redish hued skin, fore horns, tails).

See in Faerun from SCAG:

During the Spellplague, Asmodeus consumed the divine spark of Azuth and thereby achieved godhood. Subsequently, Asmodeus and a coven of warlocks, the Toril Thirteen, performed a rite wherein the archdevil claimed all tieflings in the world as his own, cursing them to bear "the blood of Asmodeus." This act marked all tieflings as "descendants" of the Lord of the Nine Hells, regardless of their true heritage, **and changed them into creatures that resembled their supposed progenitor. **

Tieflings are derived from human bloodlines, and in the broadest possible sense, they still look human. However, their infernal heritage has left a clear imprint on their appearance. Tieflings have large horns that take any of a variety of shapes - ...
SCAG lets them have ram/gazelle/antelopes horns, tails, pointy teeth, solid coloured eyes, and skin of all human colouration and shades of red.

And then you have Feral tieflings, who can have forked tongues, cat eyes, six fingers, goat legs, hooves, scales, so on. Very 2e tiefling.

Since not all tieflings are of the blood of Asmodeus, some have traits that differ rom those in the Player's Handbook.
(...)
Your tiefling might not look like other tieflings. Rather than having the physical characteristics described in the Player's Handbook, choose 1d4+1 of the following features: ...

MoTF didn't really go into descriptions for the different tieflings. It has artwork for Levistus and Zariel tieflings, but they seem fairly typical- horns, tail with reddish skin, although the Zariel one leans more orange/dull yellow.

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Which might be reflected in BG3. In character creation Zariel tieflings default to yellow-orange hues, Mephistoles default to bluer hues. This doesn't at all actually match the demon lord they're named after though. Mephistoles is very much traditional tiefling- horns, red skin, tail. Zariel in newer art is pale skinned, hornless and almost elven (older art gave her horns, dull yellow hues and cloven hooves).

jagged apex
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dragon kin is something unrelated but is somewhat similar

fathom ore
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Well

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Yeah, cause half dragons n all that

jagged apex
fathom ore
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but i was just curious what the offical statement was on what dragonborn are now

jagged apex
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dragonborn are not related at all to neither

fathom ore
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Stickin to the worst adaptation huh

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shame

jagged apex
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their connection to dragon kind is rather weak and not really direct

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no

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it is not worse, never were they related to half-dragons or dragon-kin

fathom ore
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Idk everyone iv ever talked to retcons them to be related to dragons

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their rough point was always their backstory

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But its imagination game

jagged apex
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also there are 2 kinds of dragonborn historically, from my understanding the dragonborn of bahamut have some connection to the proper race of dragonborn, but it is never clearly stated

fathom ore
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who cares what the silly corperate overlords imagine their little lizard not dragons have tails no tails alternate reality duders are

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Nice

jagged apex
fathom ore
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Do you know what retcon means?

jagged apex
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yes

fathom ore
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Then you must have misunderstood what i said

jagged apex
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in no edition that i am aware were their orgins ever tying them directly to dragon kind

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the closest possible one is the myth in universe of their species being born from the drops of Io's blood when he was cut in half

fathom ore
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Yeah but most people like oh theyre cool dragon creatures rather then

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players hand book

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weird ass

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thing

jagged apex
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sounds like they just made up lore based on what they saw than actually read anything

fathom ore
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i mean they have tails now

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so thats cool

jagged apex
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eh, debatable

fathom ore
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Because it seems like were not talking about the same thing here

jagged apex
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the tails are a more recent thing, prominent with certain variations of dragonborn from the critical role setting

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english is my first and only language

fathom ore
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So then why is, people liking the idea of dragons having draconic origin now being, people passing off that as canon and making up lore?

jagged apex
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granted i know some words in other languages but by no means enough to have a secondary language

fathom ore
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People are allowed to like things and have prefrences

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And im just asking what their current origin is because i was unsure what it was after their turbulent history

jagged apex
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draconic origin as in what is given in example with draconic sorcerers and dragonborn are not related

fathom ore
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Oh my god

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🤦‍♂️

jagged apex
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those are separate, yet compatable ideas

fathom ore
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there is no way you actually think Im refering to a sorcerer subclass when im refering to a race being related to dragons

jagged apex
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because, homebrew and published continuity are two seperate things, spreading misinformation as fact is dishonest and just leads to more confusion

fathom ore
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Can you refer to me when someone was doing that?

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Because I dont see where that is relevant to this conversation or what i just said

jagged apex
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cuz otherwise you are just coming off as rather confusing

fathom ore
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What else do i mean by some people like to write dragonborn as being of dragon relation in their headcanon?

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You keep refering to that as spreading misinformation

rancid saddle
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Can someone explain me why

fathom ore
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but not every dm will write everything by the book

jagged apex
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well this is not the place for talk of homebrew or headcanon so why talk about it here rather than the appropriate chat?

fathom ore
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some people make all orcs big and dumb, some make dragonborn, ya know, DRAGONborn, its all about the party

rancid saddle
fathom ore
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OH MY GOD

modest badger
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This is the channel for official lore however

fathom ore
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Thats why i asked for their offical lore

flint orchid
fathom ore
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thats why all i said was i know some people write them as half dragon people

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but its not canon

jagged apex
jagged apex
fathom ore
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You got there eventually

jagged apex
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fairies in dnd are the same size as halflings

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roughly

fathom ore
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Alright so the link you sent me says "we dont know but they are probably related to dragon"

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So, ig your wrong?

modest badger
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In 5e all we have is:

Shaped by draconic gods or the dragons themselves, dragonborn originally hatched from dragon eggs as a unique race, combining the best attributes of dragons and humanoids.
-PHB

SCAG:

As with all stories of the ancient past, tales of the origins of the dragonborn are hazy and sometimes contradictory. Each reveals something about the dragonborn in its telling, however.

    1. Dragoborn are shaped by Io from 'lesser draconic spirits' where as dragons are shaped from greater draconic spirits.
    1. Dragonborn are born from Io's spilt blood during the dawn war, when he was cleaved in two halves (Tiamat, Bahamut)
    1. Io made dragonborn first, and all humanoids are a pale imitation. Dragons were made later to provide destruction.
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And then lore specific to Exandria and so on.

fathom ore
crude blaze
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Yeah, the PHB lore is very Forgotten Realms specific. Different settings may have different lore for any and/or all races.

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It’s just that as of right now the core books are mostly coming from the perspective of one setting’s lore.

fathom ore
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Which is abit unfortunate

modest badger
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Chosen of Bahamut Dragonborn from 3.5 donated their name, but are different. The only connection is a sidebar in a dragon magazine describing how Dragonborn took inspiration from previous draconic humanoids, including the Dragonborn of bahamut:

The dragonborn of the 4th Edition D&D game take many cues from the dragonborn of Bahamut, as well as other dragonblood creatures from 3rd Edition. Like their predecessors, the dragonborn bear a mystique and fierceness unique to dragons, and they can be strongly affiliated with draconic deities. In fact, in an earlier iteration of 4th Edition, the dragonborn were called the dragonblood. In the final analysis, though, the dragonborn name was a better fit. It more aptly describes a race of draconic humanoids that share the legacy of the most important creature in the Dungeons & Dragons game.
Dragon Magazine 365, Ecology of the Dragonborn, p.35 Sidebar 'Evolution of Dragonborn'.
Others mentioned were draconians, krolli, half-dragons, weredragons and so on.

The PHB mentions Draconians in a side bar as possible dragonborn in Krynn:

"In the Dragonlance setting of the evil goddess Takhisis learned a dark ritual that let them corrupt the eggs of metallic dragons, producing evil dragonborn called draconians"
5e Playerhand Book , p. 34

But then the new Dragonlance books make sure to differentiate between them, and Shadow of the Dragonqueen says dragonborn are not native to Krynn:

Peoples who aren't native to the world still might find their way to Krynn. It's possible to find individual members—or even small enclaves—of folk like dragonborn, halflings, tieflings, or any other race in Ansalon.
p. 24

jagged apex
fathom ore
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the wiki says this, and Elgate is quoteing with references what the wiki references

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Maybe, do more research in the future lol

fathom ore
jagged apex
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i said related, which is different from relations

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follow your own advice

unkempt merlin
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As per Fizbans, part of the generic multiversal lore of dragonborn is that some are directly descended from dragons

fathom ore
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Thats wild

fathom ore
jagged apex
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am just gunna block him to cut this off before it perpetuates, plenty of other people that can answer any lore questions they may have

fathom ore
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Her*

fathom ore
fathom ore
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But if the big dragon man himself is saying that some are related then, i mean

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simple as

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some are 🤷

modest badger
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Dragonborn lore is intentional vague from their main conception in 4e, with multiple origin stories.

unkempt merlin
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its part of the fact there are multiple settings and even within a singular setting they might have multiple origin stories

fathom ore
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Right

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Interpretation and such

modest badger
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Also I think there was just miscommunication between others here. 'Dragon-kin' can refer to a specific creature in FR lore, or just 'relating to dragons' (like how giant-kin can mean relating to giants), and also confusion on what 'related' here meant (blood relation or 'relating to' as in connected/referring to something).
Scarletsteam was trying to be helpful. And again, dragonborn lore is intentionally vague and somewhat confusing.

fathom ore
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I get that, sometimes things get a lil heated

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best to move on

jagged apex
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plus i love the dragonborn as a race and thus tend to become a bit defensive, more so than usually when on the subject

fathom ore
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Ive heard from multiple people, quite afew, that the spellplauge event was widely disliked

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as a concept

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any paticular reason why>

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is it like vermintide for 40k or am i just around some goobers

modest badger
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Bit harder to really explain as disliking it is pretty subjective, but the 4e lore changes made during the Spellplague event (which was it's in universe explanation for changes to the Forgotten Realms setting) really changed a lot of lore. When you make such drastic changes, some feathers are bound to be ruffled and it also makes it harder to try and carry games over from one edition to another.

A lot of these changes were softly retconned or just ignored going forward in 5e, but some of the more popular ones stayed too.

fathom ore
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Ahhhh so it was like, vermintide

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Alright i gotcha

jagged apex
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the majority of 4e lore that was displiked by most fans at the time was undone, what was loved was kept or revisioned for the 5e continuity, my personal favorite example of this being the raven queen

fathom ore
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Ah so thats why alot of races from 4e were gone

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like the gem gate dudes

jagged apex
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each edition and form of media is it's own continuity, meaning differences both minor and drastic can exist

fathom ore
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Well, use to

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Now considering "dnd one"

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six

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whatever

modest badger
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More for #1026901431132885064 but 'One D&D' (which was referring to multiple things and not the name of the playtest itself, nor a new edition) is more like a soft 5.5. This is fairly common in D&D, with many editions having a 'revision' at some point in their lives (3.5 is just the most dramatic example of which, but 2e and 4e also had their versions).

It is still 5e

obtuse zephyr
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What is the status of male drow in drow society? I need it to describe my character, but in whst I wrote he was a personal cook for a higher ranking drow family, where they treated him as sort of slave. Is it ecen remotely correct?

modest badger
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That sounds about right. In Lolthian drow society, men are definitely treated as second class citizens to women. All drow are still high in status to any non-drow, but male drow don't have it easy.

sharp owl
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In udadrow society they're treated very much as second class citizens as the culture is explicitly and enthusiastically misandric

obtuse zephyr
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So its

Women drow
Drow men
Everyone else
Correct?

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And this is the way it is because of their religion... I think Loss?

sharp owl
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In avendrow and lorendrow society it's not known but given the impression that udadrow misandry originates from Lolths influence on the culture, it'd be reasonable to assume their societies are more egalitarian

sharp owl
modest badger
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In Lolthian (Udadrow in Faerun / Forgotten Realm setting) society yep. Lolth.

A male drow can advance in standing as a combatant, a consort, or both. Physical beauty and fitness are highly prized in male drow, and those who are especially favored in this regard can earn protection and gifts from their matrons. A few males can attain high status in their society, especially those who serve as mages, but they never overshadow the females of their houses. Even the most intelligent, strong-willed, and devious male will never be more than a second-class citizen in any drow city or house. That situation will never change as long as Lolth reigns as their queen.
MToF p.51
Very much a typical description of Udadrow or Lolthian drow.

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This is the same for Greyhawk setting as well and Lolthian drow culture there.

Eberron and Exandrian (other settings) drow are rather different if I recall correctly.

obtuse zephyr
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Its perfect then! Thank you. And xenophobic tendencies, although he won't have them, really, can be turned to something of being raised that Way. We are playing in forgotten realms, so I think this description is the one I need

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Onve again thank you

sharp owl
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Remember that this only applies if your character is an udadrow, drow can originate from other cultural hubs, such as the forest and jungle dwelling lorendrow and the northern dwelling aevendrow

obtuse zephyr
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His backstory is tied to a massive in game lore event of the death of the magic god, so everyone who used magic... Failed miserably. And his matrons and her guest, no one really, knew about this, so after two opened portals only one alive was the chief, who swore to close portals and regulate magic, so I guess he is fron Australia

jagged apex
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sounds kind of like a drow version of karsus ^^;

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at least i instantly think of karsus based on what was in that description, mainly the whole death of a god of magic causing everyone who uses magic to fail miserably part

grim siren
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We see the Aevendrow live in the city of Callidae far to the north beyond Icewind Dale. The aevendrow and other inhabitants lived in a peaceful, joyful, and egalitarian society. As the surrounding environment was hazardous, because of slaadi, dragons, giant, and just the cold climate, they trained hard for battle. The leader of the Aevendrow City, called a Mona, was an elected governor rather than a mighty feudal-style House.

We know very little of the Lorendrow and Saekolath.

rancid saddle
crude blaze
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Doesn’t really matter

rancid saddle
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I feel fairies live too litle to be litle elves with wings

sharp owl
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But they don't, they have similar life expectancies to humans

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This channel is for discussing the official lore, rather than what you think the lore should be (that'd be more suited to #dm-world-building )

rancid saddle
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Are their lifes short in previous editions or it's a 5e thing

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?

modest badger
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Fairies didn't really properly exist as a seperate thing prior to 5e IIRC

rancid saddle
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Even as a moster race?

modest badger
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You had Sprites and Pixies and so on but 'Fairy' as it's own separate creature is more 5e.

grim siren
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Yeah Straight up Fairy is new

rancid saddle
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Where sprites and pixies short lived there?

sharp owl
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That sentence doesn't really make sense

rancid saddle
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In previous editions

sharp owl
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Oh, were

modest badger
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Asking what the lifespans of Sprites and pixies and similar 'fairies' in older editions were

grim siren
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Pixies lived around 300 years

sharp owl
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The "where" typo threw me

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The only fey I know to be explicitly shortly lived are, aptly, the quicklings, none of which has lived longer than 15 years

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This is a result of a curse by the Queen of Air and Darkness

crude blaze
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Sprites and pixies are also kinda their own thing. The 5E Fairy playable race is kinda just a catch-all playable fey. It can be flavored as any sort of just quirky creature of fey nature.

rancid saddle
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Are elves long lived because of their gods or because their fey ancestry?

sharp owl
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Depends on the setting

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And for some settings, the answer is "yes" because their gods are the reason they have fey ancestry

crude blaze
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I also don’t think that the base lore mentions whether or not their longevity is based on their fey ancestry

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Like they could just as easily live that long because they just do

rancid saddle
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I think of elves as tall fairies and fairies as short elves.

sharp owl
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Okay? Not really on topic for this channel. How you want to describe/think of the various peoples of D&D is more a #dm-world-building thing

rancid saddle
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Sorry

sharp owl
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s'all good, just a reminder

grim siren
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Even going back to earlier editions Elves live long in base multiversal lore because well they do.

rancid saddle
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Because of Tolkien?

grim siren
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well elves are older than tolkien the first mentions of elves predate the hobbit by a thousand years.

Even hyper detailed settings like the Realms don't completely answer that question of why they are long lived other than its like a side effect of XYZ

rancid saddle
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Are Female elves still androgynous by lore? Because I rarely see that in pcs

grim siren
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which setting

rancid saddle
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Forgotten realms

jagged apex
rancid saddle
iron saffron
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Tolkien elves are as tall or taller than humans. They're immortal.
D&D elves are around 5' to 5.5' tall. They live up to a thousand years.

grim siren
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Old man I don't recall anything about female elves appearing androgynous in FR am I missing something?

iron saffron
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

rancid saddle
magic jackal
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The distinction for elves is they don't really show their age until they're knocking on deaths door, they tend to retain their youthly appearance.

iron saffron
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The only androgynous elf I know lore-wise is Corellon.

jagged apex
jagged apex
rancid saddle
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In the concept art the female high elves are thin and androgynous

grim siren
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which concept art

rancid saddle
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Yes

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@grim siren

sharp owl
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I mean, that's one piece of art and a subjective assessment that it depicts an androgynous character

rancid saddle
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But I feel everone ignores that ( me too)

grim siren
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I thought that one was always clearly a female elf but I will take the L on it if I did it wrong

jagged apex
grim siren
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TBH I thought the PHB Elf was supposed to be Goldmoon from Dragonlance considering the description of the art is close and well the quoted texted is Goldmoon's

jagged apex
modest badger
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I'd personally say that elves overall have been characterised as more Femme Androgyny:

Physical Description: Elves are short and slim, standing about 4-
1/2 to 5-1/2 feet tall and typically weighing 95 to 135 pounds, with
elf men the same height as and only marginally heavier than elf
women. They are graceful but frail. They tend to be pale-skinned
and dark-haired, with deep green eyes. **Elves have no facial or body
hair. **
PHB 3.5

With characteristics traditionally associated with feminine gender.

And 4e has... this:

Elves retain several of their distinguishing characteristics
from earlier editions, most notably the pointed ears and the
slight tilt to the eyes. And elf males don’t have facial hair. They’re
not effeminate; they’re lean, athletic, and clean-shaven. That’s
not to say that elves never look feminine—female elves sure do!
4e: Wizards Presents Races and Classes

rancid saddle
rancid saddle
iron saffron
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The 3.5E elves' heads were depicted as more ovoid shape to make them less human looking.

grim siren
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and the 4e quoted source does straight up say

And elf males don’t have facial hair. They’re
not effeminate; they’re lean, athletic, and clean-shaven.

jagged apex
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is possible them looking androgynous may be either specific kinds of elves or could be from other media, thus not necessarily dnd's version, though subjective stuff is well, subjective, plus sometimes could be hard to depict

grim siren
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That does not mean they can't be though. just as a rule Other than being "Fair" I have never seen elves as a whole as an androgynous group

That could be my failure of viewing this through my myopic view of the world though.

modest badger
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Which... Hm. See, that source is one that always made me squint because it didn't have the best approach to describing gender. See it's dwarves:

The female dwarves were a much greater challenge.
The design team felt that they had been ignored in
earlier versions because they are always depicted as
so unattractive and masculine. I was directed to make
them beautiful, even sexy. Short, stocky and large nosed
is not exactly a schema for the classic female beauty.

So thank Moradin we’re eight years into the Zeds and
Bill O’Connor has gifted us with a magnificent new look for
dwarf women. Strong, sensual, earthy and feminine, with an
exotic beauty that no one would think to splash a beard on.
Questions of dwarven female beauty have been buried once
for and all.
Wizards Presents Races and Classes, p.33 (4e)

grim siren
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Oh yea, tbh using a bunch of Washington State Dudes in the late 00's to hand the discussion of Gender with Grace is asking for a fun time

jagged apex
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plus elves, and any other race for that matter can vary from individual to individual, the lore provides the objective lore for the published continuity or a sort of base line you can choose to deviate from in your own games or not

iron saffron
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What's that quote from?

modest badger
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Wizards Presents Races and Classes, for 4e. It has all the design notes for the 4e changes.

grim siren
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Let me check Tome of Foes rq

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nothing that I could find on androgyny just that corellon had many forms of many genders

rancid saddle
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I think is less of a thing in 5e

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The only thing is that concept art

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But nothing else

grim siren
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I mean that concept art is 5e

sharp owl
modest badger
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I feel like 5e has leant into the 'andgrogynous' design more so, with the blessing of corellon notes, which is also not the best worded, but an attempt

You don’t need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender. The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous, for example, and some elves in the multiverse are made in Corellon’s image. You could also play a female character who presents herself as a man, a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male. Likewise, your character’s sexual orientation is for you to decide." PHB chapter 4, pg 121

Yet occasionally elves are born who are so androgynous that they are proclaimed to be among the blessed of Corellon-living symbols of the god's love and of the primal elves' original fluid state of being. Many of Corellon's chief priests bear this blessing.
The rarest of these blessed elves can change their sex whenever they finish a long rest-a miracle celebrated by elves of all sorts except drow. (The DM decides whether an elf can manifest this miracle.) Dark elves find this ability to be terrifying and characterize it as a curse, for it could destabilize their entire society. lf Corellon's blessing manifests in a drow, that elf usually flees to the surface world to seek shelter among those dedicated to Corellon.
MToF

sharp owl
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That's a piece of final art, it's not just in the PHB, but on multiple other D&D products

modest badger
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So 100% elves are associated with androgyny and that androgyny tends to lean more towards the femme side of the spectrum, however it is also equally true that there is no one way to look Nonbinary and that being Nonbinary is very different to androgyny

rancid saddle
grim siren
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and the question was

Are Female elves still androgynous by lore?

In the forgotten realms

As a whole I don't think that has ever been the case.

There is more of it now, but as a whole I am not seeing that claim supported

rancid saddle
modest badger
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TBH, I've always seen this as 5e failing to really seperate between androgyny, nonbinary, intersex or 'true hermaphroditism' (in the fantasy sense) and sex/gender fluidity.

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TBH I'd say over all female elves are coded feminine and male elves are oft coded more androgynous.

grim siren
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I can totally see and support the claim that the elves are the most androgynous species, especially in the realms. But that all female elves specifically are androgynous isn't supported.

as an aside, I love it when Elgate comes to the lore channel with receipts.

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She always brings very interesting discussions and rarely just shuts people down. Which happens too often here.

rancid saddle
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Idk why they relate androgyny to trans people in general. Yeah like non binary doesn't necessarily means androgyny but at least makes more sense

grim siren
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Because the game is designed by humans in game design and not gender experts. And we have to take the grain that sensitivity readers being mandatory is a post Spelljammer thing.

So it was people doing their best and sometimes that best is good and sometimes it really really isn't

rancid saddle
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Thank Linking trans binary for people to that

rancid saddle
modest badger
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I think that 2024 will see language changes. 5e definitely has tried to be much more inclusive and careful with language, but has still made mistakes in places and as discussion has developed they have addressed things.
I believe I've already seen that the PHB quote on gender presentation has been changed to avoid outdated language like 'a man who feels trapped in a female body'.

This is stepping a bit away from lore, but I think we may see some changes in how the 'Blessing of Corellon' or elves relation to sex and gender is worded in the future.

sharp owl
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Yep, this is no longer on topic as we're into general games design and sensitivity rather than specifically a discussion of lore

grim siren
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Yup and big parts of that are because these points have become a lot more normalized since 5e launched 10 years ago

sharp owl
#

Let me not be misunderstood, I'm not saying this topic is forbidden from being discussed, just that we ask it be discussed in the right channel ( #dnd-discussion would be a more appropriate channel, not just for this topic but anything pertaining to the general design of D&D)

modest badger
#

And was so much that the 'Blessing of Corellon' was deleted, more so that the entire book it was in was made 'legacy', and not all the lore could be fitted into small paragraph in MPMoM. So I'd say that is still 'official lore' until we see otherwise (such as being contradicted in future books)

grim siren
#

So to answer Girly Doll's question as shortly as possible.

Are Female Elves Androgynous?

Yesn't

modest badger
#

Also, because I was reminded of it and needed to track it down.
The image for the Bard in the 5e PHB is done by Clint Cearly
And he states that he intentionally was going for androgyny:

The race of elves he's from are rather androgynous, something I was interested in conveying. The pose and black guitar-thing was inspired by the idea that basically he's a medieval fantasy version of a rock star but instead of traveling from city to city to play music he travels around taking gigs to plunder dungeons.

Not really official lore, but when it comes to artistic representation in D&D art, worth looking into the artist's intent and instructions. In this case we have a clear case of intent, although I'm uncertain if there were any actual design instructions on portraying elves as androgynous.

rancid saddle
serene crater
#

Quick question for FR lore, can lycanthropy only be contracted though a bite or a claw, or can a blood injection cause it (trying to make an npc's backstory where through an injection they were forced to become a werewolf, though im not sure if its possible that way

magic jackal
#

Does it need to be an injection? Can it not be some other form of hostile experimentation?

#

For example, Lycanthropy is also contractable through Curse, either by a direct Cursing, or via a Curse induced by Magic Item etc.

#

If you wanted to keep the Blood element of the backstory, you could also relate cursing to Blood in some way, that's a pretty easy assocation to make.

serene crater
#

tbh I forgot lycanthropy could be contracted through a curse

iron saffron
#

In 5E lycanthropy is a curse rather than a disease.

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge it is kind of both, though more often than not is presented as the curse based version but as for bite or not, it depends on the kind of lycanthrope, but that gets more so into mechanics

rancid saddle
#

Do you need to drink a vampires blood to turn into a true vampire?

grim siren
#

Or kill your master

rancid saddle
#

Can vampire spawns kill their masters ?

jagged apex
#

not of their own accord without external forces being involved

obsidian gate
#

their master would have to order them or allow them to normally

#

which is rather unlikely

grim siren
#

One of the more famous cases is Jander Sunstar killing his masker Cassiar, he served him for over a century, and even he needed help, from his friend Rhynn Oriandis

jagged apex
#

else, as i said, other outside and abnormal factors would have to be in play

#

typically a spawn is dominated by the very will of their master, leaving them little if any autonomy or free will, at least to my knowledge

obsidian gate
#

theoretically, a necromancer could take control of the spawn maybe?

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

if i had to hazard aguess since they are still somewhat intelligent undead, is unlikely it would work

#

but that is more so speculation on my part

modest badger
#

To touch upon some of the above:
Lycanthropy: In 1e Lycanthropy was described as a disease but also treated as a curse. In the 1e DMG bites that dealt more than 50% of hp damage overall could inflict the disease . Cure Disease cast within 3 days could cure it, and after that you needed remove curse with special conditions, and then wish should all else fail. It curiously also made Paladins permanently fall. (DMG pg 21 or 22).

This changed in 2e where it was clarified it's a curse not a disease:

While often considered a disease, lycanthropy can more properly be described as a natural condition, in some cases, or a curse, in others. In either case, it is immune to the effects of cure disease spells and powers.
(...)
True lycanthropy is neither a curse nor a contagion, but the ability, possessed by a limited number of species, to change into an animal shape at will.

And could be potentially inflicted by any wound:

Whenever a character is wounded by a true lycanthrope, there is 1% chance per hit point of damage suffered that the character is stricken with lycanthropy.

In 3.5 Bites could inflict the 'Curse of Lycanthropy', but says it's spread 'like a disease'

When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s bite (see above), no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon.
and returns to 1e in how it treats lycanthropy, treating it as both disease and curse and it's cures:
A remove disease or heal spell cast by a cleric of 12th level or higher also cures the affliction, provided the character receives the spell within three days of the lycanthrope’s attack.

The only other way to remove the affliction is to cast remove curse or break enchantment on the character during one of the three days of the full moon. After receiving the spell, the character must succeed on a DC 20 Will save to break the curse (the caster knows if the spell works). If the save fails, the process must be repeated.
(3.5 SRD)

#

In 4e lycanthropy was only hereditary and could not be spread through bites. (4e MM)

in 5e it's a curse, and the stat blocks only inflict it on a bite, but the lore just says 'wounded':

A humanoid creature can be afflicted with the curse of lycanthropy after being wounded by a lycanthrope, or if one or both of its parents are lycanthropes. A remove curse spell can rid an afflicted lycanthrope of the curse, but a natural born lycanthrope can be freed of the curse only with a wish.
5e MM

#

so TL;DR
1e: Disease mostly, but could be treated with remove curse?
2e: Curse only
3.5: Curse mostly, but could be treated with remove disease?
4e: Neither, hereditary
5e: Curse only

#

As for bites or not... It's mostly bites, and seems to really only be bites in 5e mechanically. But certainly some editions and lore have been vaguer and just said 'when wounded'.

fluid pine
#

I figure it says “when wounded” to include races that like, can’t be victim to blood diseases, like Warforged

modest badger
#

Well a bite would do that regardless, as Warforged are humanoids and not immune to curses.
Although you'd need to use variant lycanthropy NPC rules from the MM most likely, which addresses how to deal with humanoid stat blocks different to humans like lizardfolk when afflicted and making an NPC. PCs typically use the same rules regardless if allowed by the DM.
Either way Lore wise.mechanically- in 5e, Warforged can be afflicted by a lycanthrope bite.

jagged apex
fluid pine
jagged apex
#

yes

#

but that is technically beside the point since 5e by default it is more so a curse than anything else

unkempt merlin
#

They have analogs for most relevant organs

jagged apex
#

ie they are not exactly those things, but function identically, one of the few exceptions being lungs and presumably a stomach, hence why they have no need to breath or eat and drink

modest badger
# fluid pine They do??

Living Steel and Stone. Warforged are formed from a blend of organic and inorganic materials. Root-like cords infused** with alchemical fluids **serve as their muscles, wrapped around a framework of steel, darkwood, or stone.
(...)
Although they were manufactured, warforged are living humanoids. Resting, healing magic, and the Medicine skill all provide the same benefits to warforged that they do to other humanoids.
ERLW p.35
This is why they are resistant to, but not immune to, poisons. They are still made of living tissues too, like wood/root and have 'alchemical fluids' so on.

jagged apex
#

in and out of in universe, thinking them as robots or constructs is just not accurate, to sum it up

#

we got autognomes for that these days XD

fluid pine
jagged apex
#

the most important difference between a warforged and a construct though is the fact that they have a soul and free will, that is the most important thing that sets them apart from a construct

#

not that it changes anything that was said above, just a detail i like to point out and that makes them so interesting

unkempt merlin
modest badger
#

(There's weird mechanical and lore implications in 5e around constructs and souls, in that technically all constructs have souls in 5e now? But that's a weird one)

jagged apex
#

yeah, i guess saying in universe it is inaccurate would be a bit meta, is basically a major debate in the world of eberron, that even with laws that grant them rights, there are still those that view them as just glorified constructs

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
#

so at least the way i see it they don't typically have souls in the same sense that warforged or humanoids have them

#

plus even if they do, often constructs are built for a certain task and don't have free will or thought beyond that task

feral lintel
#

Do Modrons and constructs from mechanicus have souls then?

#

Ah

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge, they are kind of an outlier, do to the metaphysical nature of the outerplanes, they are more or less both technology and biology, like an illithid engineer would love to take one apart bit by, given the nature of their technology

#

they are more or less ment to be law personified, and in dnd often purely lawful beings, especially those of Mechanus have a very mechanical design

iron saffron
#

Outsiders (creatures native to the Outer Planes) don't have souls like mortals from the Material Plane but more like essences. They are often than not created from the plane of existences they're native to.

#

Mortal souls go to the Outer Planes in their afterlife. Outsiders are already native to the Outer Planes.

jagged apex
#

they are souls, as those of the outerplanes, their very nature has it so where body and soul are one in the same, and is partially why they regenerate in their respective planes when slain outside of it, or in more recent years at all

#

the planes and those that dwell there are more or less metaphysical like the those planes, at least as i understand it

modest badger
#

Souls are one of those things that give me a headache in D&D and I suppose ought to.
But indeed.
Golems are specifically animated by elemental spirits:

After constructing the body from clay, flesh, iron, or stone, the golem's creator infuses it with a spirit from the Elemental Plane of Earth. This tiny spark of life has no memory, personality, or history. It is simply the impetus to move and obey. This process binds the spirit to the artificial body and subjects it to the will of the golem's creator.
MM P.167

And one module, which I'll try to avoid spoiling, has a construct that wishes to become a humanoid, but cannot activate the ritual to do so itself because it lacks a 'life spark'. 'Life spark' is never explained, just that the humanoid PCs have one, and it doesn't.

and then this in the DMG:

When a creature dies, its soul departs its body, leaves the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature's deity resides. If the creature didn't worship a deity, its soul departs to the plane corresponding to its alignment. Bringing someone back from the dead means retrieving the soul from that plane and returning it to its body.
DMG p.24

Older editions seperated between soul and spirit, and in 3.5 planar beings like elementals and planar beings had souls, but their souls and being were one thing:

Unlike most other living creatures, an elemental does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an elemental is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an elemental. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection, to restore it to life.
3.5 SRD

jagged apex
#

souls are probably about as complex and convoluted as they are implied to be powerful, with it being a thing sought after by the likes of gods, demons, devils, liches, and so on

modest badger
#

And in 2e Modrons just sort of.. recycled that essence, because they were constructs but also planar beings:
In Planescape 'Planes of Law' :

"Of course there are sods who've thought to test this theory by figuring a way to kill the modrons. Unfortunately for them, it's pretty much impossible to be entirely rid of a modron. See, when a modron dies, its life force is absorbed back into the communal pool. then, a modron of the rank below is promoted (and so on down the chain), and then a new monodrone, made from the essence of the dead monodrone, is formed to take the place of the promoted monodrone

iron saffron
#

I recall that elves in AD&D had spirits and not souls (I think this was due to their reincarnation cycle).

modest badger
#

Yeah there were no hard and fast rules in AD&D who had spirits or souls. It was mostly a balance thing I think.

#

Other editions just use spirit and soul really interchangebly.

jagged apex
#

from what i understand AD&D the IP was still getting their footing, from what i hear they did not flesh things out more let alone in detail until at least 2nd edition onwards

modest badger
#

Souls and Spirits and such in D&D is a bit vague as it honestly depends on which edition you're using.
AD&D Elves had spirits, not souls, but 3.X and on there was no such distinction.
Dieties and Demigods (1980):

AD&D assumes that the anima, that force which gives life and distinct existence to thinking beings, is one of two sorts: soul or spirit. **Humans, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and half-elves (those beings which can have a raise dead or resurrection spell cast upon them) all have souls; all other beings that worship deities have spirits. **This latter group includes (but is not limited to) elves, orcs, half-orcs, and the other creatures specifically mentioned in the NON HUMANS' DEITIES section of this work. The DM may decide on a case-by-case basis whether other creatures have spirits and worship deities; the only parameter is that monsters with spirits must have at least on intelligence rating of Low. Please note that the following system is only a suggested one. Individual Dungeon Masters should use a different system if they find this one unsuitable.

But in 5e we have:
A Familair is a 'spirit'

You gain the service of a familiar, **a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel.
Spirit guardians summons spirits. Talk with dead speaks with the Spirit not the soul:
This spell doesn't return the creature's soul **to its body, only its animating spirit.

Empyreans MM p.130:

When an empyrean dies, its spirit returns to its home plane. There, one of the fallen empyrean's parents resurrects the empyrean unless he or she has a good reason not to.

jagged apex
#

sounds like that in the case of spells it is likely invoking the memory or concept

#

which of course resembles that thing

modest badger
#

And then lines like this:

The plane of Elysium, for example, isn't merely a place where good creatures dwell, and not even simply the place where **spirits of good creatures go when they die. **

...I can't actually say what a 'spirit' or 'soul' or 'life spark' is in D&D 5e.

jagged apex
#

though the way the forgotten realms wiki seems to try to classify the term, is mainly 3 kinds of "spirits"

modest badger
#

Ghosts are literal souls apparently:

A ghost is the soul of a once-living creature, bound to haunt a specific location, creature, or object that held significance to it in its life.

But a Banshee is a spirit so I dunno, are we going back to AD&D rules here and elves have spirits again?

This woeful spirit is a banshee, a spiteful creature formed from** the spirit of a female elf.**

jagged apex
#

so it being interchangeable or my interpretation of it being in some cases more so the concept or memory of that soul, seems like the cleanest way to define the two (i blame inconsistent writers)

modest badger
#

And Spectre uses both interchangeably yeah:

A specter is the angry, unfettered spirit of a humanoid that has been prevented from passing to the afterlife.
(...)
When a ghost's unfinished business is completed, it can rest at last. No such rest or redemption awaits a specter. It is doomed to the Material Plane, its only end the oblivion that comes with the destruction of its soul.

jagged apex
#

then you got cases like that one egypt esc domain of dread, i remember even in the 5e version they invoke the concepts of Ba and Ka

#

so in those kind of cases, you could be lead to believe it implies that a spirit is only a part of a soul, rather than the whole thing

#

Har’Akir, that was the name of the domain of dread i was thinking of

#

and it's dark lord Ankhtepot

modest badger
#

Final one to chip in, because I don't think it's actually worth going through them all, but Will-o-wisps are also souls:

Will-o'-wisps are the souls of evil beings that perished in anguish or misery as they wandered forsaken lands permeated with powerful magic.

Some undead like wraiths are more.. malice taken form? Which okay. But yeah I don't think there's a solid answer on this one.

shrewd bobcat
#

Started reading up on the Maztican pantheon...
And I thought the Greek pantheon was dysfunctional...

feral lintel
#

Almost all godly pantheons are dysfunctional

eternal oak
#

Can someone explain to me about the underdark
Or where I could find information about it

feral lintel
#

The underdark refers to the giant subterranaian world, caves, tunnels, and caverns underneath Toril

#

Above is a link with more info about it

eternal oak
#

Ok thank you you've been a big help

shrewd bobcat
#

Careful about falling down the rabblehole of reading that site.

edgy flax
#

cool

shrewd bobcat
#

Geez, WtoC really needs to sit down and sort out all the back lore that exists in their setting.
so much of it is so loosely connected and it's like Schrodinger's Canon

iron saffron
#

50 years of lore that changes every edition

jagged apex
#

and each edition it's own continuity

rancid saddle
#

Are there good vampires in dnd or dhampires are the only good ones?

feral lintel
#

Jander Sunstar is a good alinged vampire iirc

jagged apex
#

it is iffy as the truth behind vampires is unclear, they are intelligent undead, but also are predators

feral lintel
#

Isnt their bloodthirst more of a "the body (really, really) needs it" typa thing?

jagged apex
#

they literally will weaken and die without consuming a specific minimum amount regularly, at least to my knowledge

rancid saddle
#

Do vampires absorb life energy, psionic power and dreams like dhampires or is it just a dhapir thing?

feral lintel
#

Fairly sure thats a dhamphir thing

jagged apex
#

they are effectively feeding on the soul of the creature and their life force, bit by bit, the blood is merely a medium they consume it from, at least to my knowledge, as the amount a vampire's bite would take out of your soul is enough to where with time the damage will be undone as the soul regenerates, represented mechanically when you are not having your hp max reduced from the bites, to much, like say the bite of fang dragon, and that would kill you out right

rancid saddle
#

Is the stake to the heart a mechanical thing or just lore?

feral lintel
#

Its mechanical and lore. For vamps

jagged apex
#

both

#

though it paralyzes than rather than the out right kill like other media would have you think

iron saffron
#

Well, instant death isn't a thing in 5E.

rancid saddle
#

Can dhampirs create vampire spawns at least by lore?

jagged apex
#

well, it is rare, but that does not change the point, to my knowledge it always has paralized in dnd

feral lintel
jagged apex
rancid saddle
#

I reared it but maybe it happens somewhere

jagged apex
#

they appear in the 5e vanrichton's guide to ravenloft book

feral lintel
#

Lore and mechanics often tend to translate over a lot

rancid saddle
#

Sometimes not that's why I asked sorry

grim siren
#

There are Vampires that try to be good, Jander Sunstar is a good example. He is just really bad at being good.

jagged apex
#

any lore that does not translate, either can't be represented with mechanics or is purely narrative

rancid saddle
#

Are dhampires more like a race and vampires more like a curse?

feral lintel
iron saffron
#

1E vampires could be killed "instantly" by either directly sunlight for 1 turn (ten rounds, which is ten minutes), submerged in running water for 3 rounds (3 minutes), or stake through the heart.

rancid saddle
grim siren
#

Because his curse causes immense self hate and fear that leads to many people around him dying

jagged apex
#

cuz of the inherit nature of a vampire

iron saffron
#

Dhampir was like what shifters are to lycanthropes. They're not true vampires.

jagged apex
#

much like any case of genetics, with some exceptions, they often only inherit part of their power/curse

rancid saddle
feral lintel
#

Theyre related to lycanthropes

rancid saddle
#

Really?

feral lintel
#

Yes

jagged apex
#

many generations removed

feral lintel
#

It says so in Ebberron, where they first popped up

rancid saddle
#

Like

#

Werebeast with a litle werebeaat blood on them?

feral lintel
rancid saddle
#

What happens if a dhampir has a child?

#

Are they dhampires or is the curse removed?

jagged apex
#

they presumably have a chance of being born a dhampir too, that is an educated guess on my part

#

the curse if you are born with it, is not curable, as far as the universe is concerned it a core part of your dnd, like any other aspect of your biology, not even a wish spell can do the job, nor can a god, without changing your race or reincarnating you entirely, least far as i know

#

in short, babies are very vulnerable/subjectable to magic when they are being born and the process leading up to it, with elemental energies you get things like genasi for example

rancid saddle
#

So curses become proper races when they have children?

#

Is it the same for true vampires and werebeast?

jagged apex
#

no, they become baked into their dna

#

like lycanthropes born from lycanthropic parents or even just one parent being one, are effectively the same, but the major difference is they innately can control their ability to switch between the 3 forms, is not a sort of struggle or fight for them as it is an integral part of who they are

rancid saddle
#

I think only lycans that reject their curse can't control it or idk.

#

Maybe I'm wrong

jagged apex
#

to my understanding those that fight against their nature, ie they don't accept it, though the phases of the moon and certain spells can force the transformation

rancid saddle
#

So they need change race magic to lift their curse, instead of remove curse right?

jagged apex
#

there is no such magic unless you count reincarnation, but that still involves dying

#

the curse automatically leaves the body of the cursed when they die

#

thus for example a lycanthrope murdered would apon death, revert to their human form and contain no more traces of the curse

#

and again, if they are born with it, it is not a curse

rancid saddle
jagged apex
#

wish can not

rancid saddle
#

Wish cannot change race?

jagged apex
#

not reliably and it would not cure the lycanthropy, also the other things you listed, save for reincarnation, to my knowledge do not either

#

remember, dragonborn are a race, half-dragons are not

rancid saddle
#

You can become a dragon born with a dragons blood

#

That's one of the weird things on dnd

rancid saddle
jagged apex
#

change race =/= cure lycanthropy

#

and again, anything beyond what is described in the spell itself is not guarenteed, it comes down to a precential dice roll

#

and the greater an act what you are asking it to do the harder it is for it to succeed

rancid saddle
#

If a human-lycan turns into an elf would they still be a lycan?

jagged apex
#

and again, if you are born with it, there is no cure, as you are not infected or otherwise sick or cursed

feral lintel
#

The lycanthrope curse arent ended from death or race chamge

jagged apex
jagged apex
rancid saddle
#

I readeed in 5e somewhere I don't remember where

#

It's one of the booms you can get from dragons along side being able to comunicate with other dimensions dragosn and other stuff

jagged apex
#

you are most certainly thinking of half dragons if that is the case

#

it does not involve their blood, it is a supernatural gift/process

rancid saddle
rancid saddle
#

Where it is

jagged apex
#

fizban's treasury of dragons

rancid saddle
#

Yes yes you can turn into a dragons born if you recive the gift from a dragon or you do a ritual with thir corpse.

rancid saddle
jagged apex
#

no

#

you are mixing up dragonborn and half dragons

#

the 2 are entirely different and unrelated

#

apart from being draconic

feral lintel
#

Fizbans has a thing where they can become a dragonborn

rancid saddle
#

"You become a dragonborn. You replace the racial traits of your original race with the traits of a chromatic, gem, or metallic dragonborn. The kind of dragonborn you become matches the family of the dragon that is the source of this gift. You can keep any skill proficiencies you gained from your previous race, or you gain proficiency in two skills of your choice."

jagged apex
#

that does not involve a dragon's corpse or a ritual, in that case it is a half dragon

feral lintel
#

Yeah, theres no ritual to it.

#

At most, it needs blood

rancid saddle
#

They just kill the dragon

#

I think

jagged apex
#

again, entirely different from what you were claiming earlier

feral lintel
#

You dont need to kill a dragon to get its blood either

rancid saddle
#

"The death of a dragon can result in its power taking root in a character, whether that person is the dragon's chosen heir or the dragon's killer. The result of this investiture can vary widely in power and impact, from a minor charm to a complete transformation."

feral lintel
#

Still doesnt need the corpse, or a ritual

rancid saddle
#

I got confused sorry

#

But still it would make more sense to turn into a half dragon than a dragon born by killing a dragon

jagged apex
#

i am gunna focus on playing bg3 rather than trying to constantly clear up false or inaccurate conclusions, there are plenty of knowledgable people in the server that likely will be willing to help you if you are still having a hard time wrapping your head around certain things

feral lintel
#

Half dragons imply that they are related to dragons.

#

Biologically

#

Anyway, i think this is going outside of #dnd-lore

rancid saddle
feral lintel
#

What?

rancid saddle
#

Idk

#

I forgot

feral lintel
#

Half-dragons are half dragons

rancid saddle
#

I just remebrr there was a primordial dragon

#

And ir was divided in 2

feral lintel
#

Yeah, Io

#

Iirc

rancid saddle
#

Behemoth and tiamat

#

And they created the normal dragons

feral lintel
#

*Bahamut

rancid saddle
#

But I don't remember if bahamut created the dragonborns

feral lintel
#

Id try reading the wiki

#

Dangit got timed out for cping the wrong link

rancid saddle
#

It seems dragons can create dragonborns from humanoids freely as a ritual or a gift

#

Like devils can make tieflings

#

And if you kill a dragon you can get that gift by force

#

Am I mistaking?

loud totem
#

If the Primordials are embodiments of entropy and destruction, why didn't Shar side with them during the Dawn War?

rancid saddle
#

maybe she didn't like the method or she onjoys destruction more then the ends goal.

loud totem
rancid saddle
#

They seem like titans or being rooted on concepts

#

I feel Gods are more like humanoids with a lot of power and they can even chose their portfolio

#

While primordials are directly Bron from nature forces like entropy or earth

#

Or they give birth to those forces idk

#

But they feel like Greek titans

fervent laurel
#

Ok, coming from dnd discussion to ask one simple question.
Like how with Halo, they have a written language for the Covenant, does Wizards of the Coast have a written language for Elves?

rancid saddle
#

I feel it's unlikely

feral lintel
#

Its in the PHB

#

The whole alphabet is there

#

As well as with the dwarven script

fervent laurel
#

I was tryna find an elvish word for "shit" but i couldn't find it

rancid saddle
#

There's an elven dictionary right

feral lintel
#

I dont remember.

rancid saddle
#

They have some slurs there

fervent laurel
#

I could not find one for "Shit", but sadly they did have one for both Bisexual and Promiscuous woman

feral lintel
#

Elves were androgynous or gender fluid iirc

rancid saddle
#

Elves seem to have an slur for bisexual women for some reason

rancid saddle
feral lintel
#

No i meant originally.

rancid saddle
#

Irl or in dnd?

feral lintel
#

DnD

rancid saddle
#

That's Tolkien influence but I feel it got watered down

feral lintel
#

I remember reading that Elves had no set gender or form, then Correllon took it away

fervent laurel
#

I never liked the idea of elves being androgynous

#

like, you do you, boo. I just find it weird how that's like, a main part of their race

feral lintel
#

?

rancid saddle
feral lintel
#

In any case, i think its getting off topic now

rancid saddle
#

Like by lore elfs can be androgynous or not depends on what the elf feels confortable with and that's a good thing.

#

But they still can't grow beard

fervent laurel
#

The only thing lore-wise I actually know about elves is that they become "adults" at roughly the same as humans, but claim it at around 90-100 years.

rancid saddle
#

Their minds I'm not sure

fervent laurel
#

I made a character based on the fact that she just rejects elvish culture and claimed her own adulthood at 29

feral lintel
#

Im fairly sure they dont

iron saffron
#

Around age 100 they choose their adult name and forget their past lives.

feral lintel
#

An elf typically claims adulthood and an adult name around the age of 100 and can live to be 750 years old

rancid saddle
#

The 100 years feel like a cultural thing I think

#

Or are they mentally minors until 100?

fervent laurel
#

So apparently i just make a character that's literally just a smart child

#

I feel uncomfy about that

rancid saddle
feral lintel
#

That... What

#

That isnt DnD Lore for sure

forest rock
#

You’re putting human point of view onto a long lived race

rancid saddle
#

Maybe it's just a cultural elf thing

iron saffron
#

No, they're an adult at around 18-years-old. Around 100 they're culturally and metaphysically an adult (again, they finally forget their past lives as elves reincarnate).

fervent laurel
#

Apparently they physically mature at around 15, but become mentally mature at 100

iron saffron
#

Not mentally.

fervent laurel
iron saffron
#

They still have ties to their past lives as they reincarnate rather than go on to the afterlife.

rancid saddle
forest rock
#

If your long lived you perceive the world in a very different way

feral lintel
iron saffron
#

Most elves reincarnate (drow followers of Lolth and those who reject The Seldarine don't reincarnate).

rancid saddle
#

What if they just live until 750?

iron saffron
#

They die of natural age.

fervent laurel
#

Ok, so many people are saying so many contradicting things. Oldman is saying they're adults at around 18, then culturally an adult at 100, but now Timo's saying it's their biology

rancid saddle
fervent laurel
#

Ok. Do elves, or do elves not mature at the pace of humans?

rancid saddle
#

They just don't get old

unkempt merlin
fervent laurel
#

Great, but because of their culture, they don't claim to be an adult until 100?

unkempt merlin
#

They mature at the same rate as humans. It is culturally different however.

Much like how you are considered an adult at 18 or 21 (or others) depending on where you are/in what regard, elves aren't generally considered adults (in some settings) until 100

iron saffron
#

Yes. It's called coming of age. There are many real life cultures that have that.

fervent laurel
#

Great. So based on those two points, does that or does that not mean that an elf who rejects its elvish culture would instead claim adulthood before 100?

forest rock
#

Are you thinking that until the age of 100 elves are just sat around playing with toys and stuff?

unkempt merlin
#

Just cause they are rejecting elvish culture doesn't mean much

rancid saddle
unkempt merlin
#

Humans irl will start calling themselves "basically adults" even as young as 10 years old

fervent laurel
rancid saddle
unkempt merlin
#

Nobody is giving contradicting information that I can see

fervent laurel
#

Timo literally said it was their biology that they aren't adults until 100

feral lintel
#

I did not

fervent laurel
#

Receipts

unkempt merlin
#

That would still tie into what Oldman was saying, even if it was what timo said there

#

100 is around when they stop experiencing visions of their past lives

#

Which is why elvish cultures consider that adulthood

fervent laurel
unkempt merlin
#

You are asking what is functionally not really a lore question at that point as to my knowledge there isn't any answer defined anywhere for such a question for any version of elves

rancid saddle
#

Can a past life of an elf take over their present life?

iron saffron
#

They're just memories.

fervent laurel
#

I assumed it would've just been like regular memories, but for past lives

unkempt merlin
forest rock
rancid saddle
#

Every race technically reincarnates

#

But usually into diferent races or planes

iron saffron
#

No, most mortals' souls go to the "afterlife" to their gods' domains in the Outer Planes.

unkempt merlin
#

As said, the reason the cultures of elves that consider themselves adults at 100 is due to the past life memories. Just because an elf rejects that culture doesn't inherently mean they would consider themselves an adult.

And see again: real humans considering themselves "basically adults" as young as 10

rancid saddle
feral lintel
#

Fairly sure thats Bhuddism

fervent laurel
iron saffron
unkempt merlin
forest rock
rancid saddle
unkempt merlin
#

The framing of your question isn't particularly possible to answer from a lore perspective

#

As mentioned

iron saffron
fervent laurel
#

Well based on what Enoki said, a 40 year old elf wouldn't be an adult in elvish eyes, and I literally made an elvish character who married at 40, soo

rancid saddle
unkempt merlin
#

It's like how some places irl consider humans adults at 16, or 18, or 21, or a number of ages in between or even after for "real" adult.

iron saffron
#

And? People marry before 18 through the ages...

rancid saddle
#

I watch some lore on YouTube but sometimes I think it's inaccurate idk

unkempt merlin
#

The demarcation you are asking about is a cultural one. Not a maturity one

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
forest rock
#

A 40 year old elf would still be mature enough to make adult choices they are just not seen as an adult in the culture of elves because of their long lived nature.

#

Adult to an elf may just mean what we call old people like the age of retirement when humans have a full lives worth of experience and knowledge

fervent laurel
#

So, again, if an elf rejects the elvish culture, you're saying they could be an adult?

unkempt merlin
#

In my mind, a 40 year old elf getting married is the equivalent of an 18 year old getting married. In cultural terms it's perfectly allowed but people do often look at it odd for "being so young"

rancid saddle
#

I think the short answers that if you want your elf considered an adult at the age of 18 ask your dm, because that's never happened in lore.

#

Something like that?

#

But I feel no one cares

fervent laurel
#

Great, well I'm just gonna go by my characters backstory and have her be an adult at 30, then married at 40

unkempt merlin
# fervent laurel So, again, if an elf rejects the elvish culture, you're saying they could be an ...

It doesn't matter whether or not they reject elvish culture, as said.
Physically they mature at the same rate as humans.
Culturally they are often not considered "true adults" until 100.
Even if they reject elvish culture they doesn't mean A) they would consider themselves adults before that and B) doesn't mean other elves would consider them an adult or C) doesn't mean non elves would or wouldn't consider them an adult.

As said it's not really a question lore can answer for you

rancid saddle
#

I guess other races don't care about elven culture

feral lintel
unkempt merlin
#

Other longer lived races are just as liable to view it as elves do, such as gnomes or dwarves or firbolg

feral lintel
#

Depends in the person. Scholars and mages usually research evlen history due to their affinity with magic

rancid saddle
#

If an elf says I'm adult at 18, I feel other races just would say ok, but it would be not acepted by other elves

#

At least by lore

unkempt merlin
#

Which again, goes back to what has already been said

rancid saddle
#

By table I don't think any dm woukd care

feral lintel
#

Not really.

unkempt merlin
silent atlas
#

what is happening in Krynn recently

iron saffron
#

The Dragons of Deceit and Dragons of Fate novels that were released in Aug 2022 and Aug 2023, respectively. Dragons of Eternity will be released later this year?

silent atlas
#

is the dnd setting Krynn and book same canon?

iron saffron
#

Which book?

silent atlas
#

sorry books

iron saffron
#

You asked about Krynn. Those are Dragonlance novels.

silent atlas
#

yes is the dnd setting cononical to novels and vicversa

hard pagoda
#

Dragonlance is Dragonlance, same as the Realms are the Realms. The novels and officially licensed works are generally treated as canon, but, as always, it's up to your DM.

#

Sometimes, novels help usher in and out different editions of the settings (which coincide with editions of D&D).

iron saffron
#

WotC has moved away from trying to establish fixed canon for 5E. Each DM determines what's canon at their table.

silent atlas
hard pagoda
silent atlas
#

basically I wanna know how much lore and stuff I would need from the novels or if the adventure setting has all I need

feral lintel
#

The adventure setting is fine

#

The one from the Drsgonlance setting book, right?

hard pagoda
iron saffron
hard pagoda
#

But you can go ahead and follow written lore too.

iron saffron
#

The Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen is an adventure that takes place during the early days of the War of the Lance. It's not really a campaign source book (disappointing...)

silent atlas
#

speaking of I just found the old animated Dragonlance movie

iron saffron
silent atlas
#

sorry

jagged apex
# silent atlas is the dnd setting Krynn and book same canon?

each form of media, as well as each edition is it['s own continuity as is each campaign/game table, contrary to what you may have assumed from oldman's earlier statement, 5e does have an established canon for dnd 5e, though this is often not stated until much after the events of previous adventures, and even then it is only the default published lore continuity of the edition

modest badger
gentle obsidian
#

Do DnD vampires known there own weakness and forbidences or do they have to find them out the hard way if somebody get's turned and there creator's not the explaining type?

modest badger
#

Not sure there is any lore on them innately knowing, but like anyone else they may have already heard certain rumours about vampire weaknesses. That's on the DM to decide.

gentle obsidian
#

so me then, ok thank you I was just curious if there was anything stated on this subject concretly

crude rampart
#

It’s almost impossible not to, since they’d be a vampire spawn first. Then they’d have to consume the blood of a true vampire to become a true vampire themselves.

#

That being said the change from humanoid —> undead is so starkly different I assume the change is innately known even if they don’t know the exact nature of their change. Sorta like instincts

modest badger
#

This is more like 'Do they know without being told they can't cross running water' type stuff

#

Not 'Do they know they're vampires'

#

Such as:

Chained to the Grave. Every vampire remains bound to its coffin, crypt, or grave site, where it must rest by day. If a vampire didn't receive a formal burial, it must lie beneath a foot of earth at the place of its transition to undeath. A vampire can move its place of burial by transporting its coffin or a significant amount of grave dirt to another location. Some vampires set up multiple resting places this way.

and:

Vampire Weaknesses. The vampire has the following flaws:
**Forbiddance. **The vampire can't enter a residence without an invitation from one of the occupants.
Harmed by Running Water. The vampire takes 20 acid damage if it ends its turn in running water.
Stake to the Heart. If a piercing weapon made of wood is driven into the vampire's heart while the vampire is incapacitated in its resting place, the vampire is paralyzed until the stake is removed.
**Sunlight Hypersensitivity. **The vampire takes 20 radiant damage when it starts its turn in sunlight. While in sunlight, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks.

#

These weaknesses affect Vampire Spawn too. So it's not a given that a vampire spawn will learn of these from their master before becoming free willed (in the case of their master dying) or a true vampire themselves.

crude rampart
#

I still think it should be innate like an instinct. I was mainly pointing out that the question posed if a vampire would know their own weaknesses instead of if a spawn would know.

gentle obsidian
#

or if the vampire is a jerk and belives in the 'push the baby bird out the nest' school of child raiseing

gentle obsidian
sharp owl
crude rampart
#

Fair enough

cinder folio
#

About vampires, I can see Chained to the Grave but there's nothing there about what happens if they don't get their special dirt nap.

#

Do they become weakened, exhausted, frenzied, comatose?

crude blaze
#

I imagine it’s just the equivalent of them not getting a long rest

#

They don’t heal, they maybe get a level of exhaustion, all the effects a mortal creature goes through when they don’t get their long rest

sharp owl
#

Let's not cross the stream between lore and mechanics

fringe widget
#

Anyone know a good video about Elminster I'm trying to learn more about him? I've struggled to find videos that are just about him.

rancid saddle
#

Vapires have a passive regeneration

iron saffron
rancid saddle
#

Can a cat be a vampire?

#

Can a wolf become a werewolf?

iron saffron
#

No.
No.

#

The target have to be Humanoid creatures in both cases.

rancid saddle
#

Or fey right?

#

Is there a lore reason why pc centaurs are so small compared with normal centaurs?

iron saffron
modest badger
#

Playable centaurs are from the Theros setting originally, while 'NPC' centaurs are the more 'core' centaur.
Also, just because 5e doesn't like you playing large races

crude rampart
#

Only 2 non humanoids as far as I know can be vampires

  1. Bloodkisses, which are obscure vampiric beholders from 4e

  2. Vampiric Illithid, though this requires the tadpole to grow within a humanoid with vampirism

rancid saddle
#

Can fairies be vampires?

iron saffron
#

No.

crude rampart
#

No they’re considered the fey creature type

rancid saddle
#

Then why can they be dhampires?

crude rampart
#

Dhampirs aren’t the same as vampires

iron saffron
modest badger
#

"Dhampirs often arise from encounters with vampires, but all manner of macabre bargains, necromantic influences, and encounters with mysterious immortals might have transformed your character. "

rancid saddle
#

If a dhampir fairy takes the blood of a true vampire can they become a true vampire?

sharp owl
#

No

crude rampart
#

No, because they are not a vampire spawn

modest badger
#

One example on the table being " Your pact with a predatory deity, fiend, fey, or spirit causes you to share their hunger."

crude rampart
#

And I mean spawn as in the actual creature type

sterile breach
modest badger
#

Dhampir are not vampires. Nor do they even need to be connected to vampires.

rancid saddle
#

Can a dhampir fairy be the daugther of a true vampire and a fairy?

modest badger
crude rampart
sharp owl
#

These questions are so overly specific as to not really be within the scope of this channel

iron saffron
sharp owl
rancid saddle
#

Sorry

#

Are eladrin the only elf that can be fey?

modest badger
#

5e:

The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0. A** humanoid slain** in this way and then buried in the ground rises the following night as a vampire spawn under the vampire's control.

4e:

LIVING HUMANOIDS SLAIN BY A VAMPIRE LORD’S BLOOD DRAIN
are condemned to rise again as vampire spawn—relatively
weak vampires under the dominion of the vampire lord that
created them.
And a Vampire Lord can do a ritual to convert another into a Vampire Lord, and while it mentions no creature type in the MM, it tells you to use the template from the DMG which says:
“Vampire lord” is a template you can apply to any humanoid creature of 11th level or higher.

3.5:

"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

2e:

Any human or humanoid creature slain by the life energy drain of a vampire is doomed to become a vampire himself.

1e:

Any human or humanoid drained of all life energy by a vampire becomes an appropriately strengthed vampire under control of its slayer.

modest badger
iron saffron
#

Playable eladrin are Humanoid.

rancid saddle
#

I know

sharp owl
#

@rancid saddle Remember that creature type is a mechanical abstraction that doesn't truly exist in the lore

rancid saddle
#

Thanks for your answers

rancid saddle
sharp owl
#

Yes, that's why I said it

#

Like, magic interacts with different creatures differently, such as hold person only working on some creatures while hold monster works on others

rancid saddle
#

I though fey creatures called themselves fey between them

modest badger
#

Creature type didn't even exist in AD&D, and throughout 3-5e have changed a lot.

sharp owl
#

I'm talking about strict creature types

modest badger
#

It's not that the terms don't exist, but the strict mechanical types are abstraction.

sharp owl
#

A fey would think of themselves as a fey because that's what beings that originate from the feywild would think of themselves as

#

They might also think of themselves as "the fair folk" or "the fairie" or any other sort of classification

#

However, a drow or a dwarf wouldn't think of themselves as a humanoid, they'd think of themselves as a person or a mortal, or just elf/dwarf/whatever

iron saffron
#

5E capitalizes creature types to distinguish the game mechanic. A red dragon is a true dragon and Dragon creature type and a red guard drake is a Dragon creature type but not a true dragon.

rancid saddle
#

So humanoid eladrin see themselves as fey?

sharp owl
#

It would depend on the eladrin

#

And where they've spent their lives

iron saffron
#

Well, I'm sure Elgate to quote the various eladrin types throughout the editions. 3.5E eladrin were celestial.

sharp owl
#

Given that if a person lives in the feywild long enough, they can become fey, it's a mutable personal concept

sterile breach
#

So I think this discussion points to an important distinction from an earlier question: is there a lore reason a fey can't be a vampire (as opposed to a mechanical one)?

Kannoth's existence suggests that there isn't such a restriction, but this might just be a mistaken impression on my part.

sharp owl
#

There's no explicit lore reason given as far as I can tell

modest badger
# iron saffron Well, I'm sure Elgate to quote the various eladrin types throughout the editions...

Hah, I could link back to where I've done that.
But to sum up for 5e:

  • Humanoid (Elf) Eladrin (The playable Eladrin race)
  • Fey (Elf) Eladrin (MPMM NPC Eladrin)
  • **Celestial (Elf) Elves **(not actually referred to as Eladrin, but matches the description from previous editions of celestial elflike natives born on Arborea) (DMG p.60)

So far 'Eladrin' from AD&D and 3.5 (Bralani, Course, Noviere, Shiere, Firre, Ghale and Tulani ) have yet to appear in 5e under those names. (Unless Planescape did)

sharp owl
#

It's simply an interaction that's mechanically prohibited and so the lore skirts around it, not presenting any explicitly fey vampires

modest badger
#

And that's where I've dug into Eladrin vs Elves before

rancid saddle
#

Do stuff from previous editions counts as part of the current lore?

sterile breach
modest badger
#

When not retconned or contradicted you can consider previous lore to still be relevant, but not canonical to 5e.

rancid saddle
#

I think there where vampire dragons in previous editions

sharp owl
#

There are generally two forms of mechanics/lore interaction

  • explicit justification: this is explained in lore terms as to why it happens that way in the rules
  • avoiding explanation: the lore simply never touches on that mechanical interactions
rancid saddle
#

But they only be infected by other vampire dragons

#

So I gues they where another kind of vampire

modest badger
sharp owl
#

Yeah, that's another mechanical/lore distinction
Mechanically a vampire is a defined thing
Narratively it's an adjective, a descriptor of a thing that might not have anything to do with the specific curse of vampirism

rancid saddle
#

So there's a lot of vampiric curses

#

?

sharp owl
#

No, that's not what I said

sterile breach
# modest badger There have also been vampiric fey, but more in the sense of 'vampiric as an adje...

Right. I guess I'm taking an opposite view on the lore: what is not explicitly forbidden is allowed. Whereas with the rules it's "What is allowed is only what's made explicit." Seeing these things interact is interesting and explains some of the confusion here on my part, whereas usually it seems like many discussion of lore are without reference to rules/mechanics.

This has been very illuminating!

sharp owl
#

What I was saying is that some entities in the world can be defined as "vampiric" without being Vampires

rancid saddle
#

Like those crabs that aren't true crabs?

sharp owl
#

No?

#

Like using vampiric as an adjective, but not literal

#

For example, a Death Kiss is a beholderkin that is very vampiric in nature, but is not a vampire beholder

rancid saddle
#

Like beings with vampire characteristics but not necessarily have something to do with the classic vampires?

#

But isn't that mechanical? I don't think people from the forgotten realms seen the diference

#

If they are undead and suck blood

modest badger
#

I don't think there was an explanation behind Vampire Muses existence either. They're Medium fey humanoid (undead), but nothing in their statblock or lore implies they pass on a curse. They don't even seem to drink blood just steal it and put it in a cauldron:

A vampire muse has an eladrinlike guise of such stunning beauty that most mortals do not suspect it is undead. Vampire muses hail from the Feywild and are renowned for stimulating creativity in artists.
(...)
A vampire muse can be permanently eliminated only by finding its blood cauldron and destroying the object.

modest badger
rancid saddle
#

Law

sterile breach
rancid saddle
#

I feel vampires in lore are diferent than vampire in mechanics. That's why a vampire muse is called a vampire muse.

#

Like the thing about fey

sharp owl
#

Yes, that's explicitly what we've been saying

#

To clarify
That the mechanics prohibit this and there's little to nothing in lore to either contradict that or explain it

#

But there are example in lore of vampiric being used as an adjective that is literally related to being cursed with vampirism

rancid saddle
#

Even dhampires might be seen as just vampires that walk in the sunlight.

sharp owl
rancid saddle
#

Are dhampires a thing in lore?

obsidian gate
#

yes

modest badger
#

They've been about since 2e, but sparse lore and can change a bit between editions

rancid saddle
#

So some dhampires see themselves as kind of vampire, but others not?

#

Oh it seems dhampires can be recognized as true vampires in the vampire society.

modest badger
#

(Also you weren't wrong- 3e/2e Dhampyr/Dhampir are quite different to 5e Dhampir. Technically the same creature but the lore differs a lot. 5e Dhampir as they are conceived now are rather recent AFAIK)

iron saffron
#

Sorry I deleted my post because I wasn't 100% they were different.

modest badger
#

It's one of those 'These seem to be the same concept but they've changed a lot so ???. Like Eladrin.

iron saffron
#

Yeah...

rancid saddle
#

How dhampires are seen in 5e?

sharp owl
#

There's nothing really published featuring dhampires so we don't know

rancid saddle
#

Sad

#

What's the elven god equivalent to sunne?

#

Do kobolds worship any kind of dragon?

obsidian gate
#

some do, its not uncommon

#

especially some chromatic dragons like to take over kobold tribes

rancid saddle
#

Can dragons learn normal magic by lore?

sharp owl
#

Yes, dragons can be spellcasters

#

They can access magic all the ways mortals can; pacts, training, innately

rancid saddle
#

Are there examples of chromatic dragons polymorphing into humanoids and taking for example an kingdom?

unkempt merlin
#

Numerous

sharp owl
#

It might be worth just having a browse of the various lore wikis, Forgotten Realms wiki being the most well known and filled out

jagged apex
#

who basically ruled an entire NATION

feral lintel
#

I know of some blue dragons who can also polymorph to a humanoid

jagged apex
#

Tchazzar even went even further and for a time became a god, though most recent bit of history we got on him in 5e is cited as being from SCAG, where it says "Some time after the Second Sundering, a new incarnation of Tchazzar was ruling the city of Erebos." according to the wiki and historically has been one of tiamat's chosen

modest sigil
#

I don’t exactly know if they can polymorph but I do know that blue dragons are kinda manipulative by nature

jagged apex
#

they can, either via learning spells for such or as of fizbans potentially once they reach a certain age, either way it is possible

#

and they are not typically manipulative, i'd say that is more so a green dragon's thing

feral lintel
#

Blues are usually more... pragmatic

jagged apex
#

they as i have seen described and find to be rather fair just barely are lawful evil as a norm, with it kind of riding a fine line between lawful neutral and lawful evil

#

to quote a portion of their lore from the average adult blue dragon statblock in 5e from the monster manual
"Vain and Deadly. A blue dragon will not stand for any remark or insinuation that it is weak or inferior, taking great pleasure in lording its power over humanoids and other lesser creatures.

A blue dragon is a patient and methodical combatant. When fighting on its own terms, it turns combat into an extended affair of hours or even days, attacking from a distance with volleys of lightning, then flying well out of harm’s reach as it waits to attack again."

#

and the majority of personality suggestions in fizban's for portraying an individual blue dragon largely back this up

feral lintel
#

pew pew

jagged apex
#

so less manipulative and more tyranical if you had to put it to a single word

feral lintel
#

Yeah, tyrannical is why they're usually evil.

next wave
#

is this lore accurate? (very slight bg3 discussion spoiler)

||Not so. Our youngest are left to fend for themselves in the deepest wilds. They need to survive and navigate home using the moonmaiden's guiding light||

#

as a selune follower

#

tried to google it but couldn't find anything, so wondering if larian made it up

#

"rite of passage" for selunites

jagged apex
#

yeah they as a norm, as with any other intelligent creature, individuals can deviate from these norms, love being the boss of those they deem lesser, basically most non blue dragons

modest sigil
next wave
#

hmm yeah idk, reading up on selune's lore doesn't mention it.
But I don't have some kind of lore book so just using some condensed wiki's

jagged apex
#

so it is lore accurate, but to which versions of the lore is another matter

#

though they do take some liberties, they show just as much if not more examples of adhering to the published continuity's lore

next wave
#

yeah it's understandable that they and will pick from multiple editions to fill up their lore. Just hoped I could find it somewhere noted lol

#

so it's probably somewhere in the older editions

jagged apex
#

or is simply something they created for their version that at least seems plausable

modest sigil
#

Yeah they kinda did Zariel dirty in BG3 if I were to state an example

jagged apex
#

?

modest sigil
#

If the sense that Larian kinda misrepresented who Zariel actually was

jagged apex
#

not really

obsidian gate
#

I dont think so. Zariel as Archdevil seems to be pretty in character to me. Very "ends justify the means" kinda mindset

jagged apex
#

as we still do not know canonically in the published lore how her story played out in Baldur's gate: decent into avernus

jagged apex
modest sigil
#

I mean I guess, it just makes zero sense that she’d want some random Tiefling from Baldurs Gate to fight in the blood war

jagged apex
#

if anything sounds like you are doing karlach dirty

#

as it is made abundantly clear how great a warrior she is

obsidian gate
#

mortal champions to kill demons isnt that suprising to me.

feral lintel
#

yeap

unkempt merlin
#

(A conceit of the game is also that all of the origin characters are explicitly depowered due to Plot™️ to explain them being level 1, if that's whats causing issues for you)

modest sigil
jagged apex
jagged apex
#

the demons of the abyss are infinte in number, there is 0 reason to turn down a useful asset against such forces

feral lintel
#

Wait, she has an infernal machine?

#

Thats metal

jagged apex
#

honestly this seems to come down to your own personal interpretation of things and perceptions, BG

#

as objectively it is fairly in line with zariel's character

modest sigil
jagged apex
#

remember, she though she could lead a army of mortal warriors into hell and win the bloodwar

feral lintel
#

Free test subject

jagged apex
#

if she thought some truly random run of the mil mortals could help her end both sides of the blood war, i see no reason not to buy and let's face it enslave, a clearly exceptional warrior, mortal or otherwise, plus if she were to die in the hells, especially more recently, zariel could very much resurrect her potentially even as a powerful devil befitting of her role she wound up more or less having to make for herself to survive for 10 freaking years, that is thousands of times longer than "any random tiefling" would last

#

most mortals, tieflings or not, would not even last a single day in the hells, let alone as a fighter in the bloodwar

jagged apex
#

it just happen to have the upside of making her new favorite as karlach puts it "attack dog" all the stronger

#

but we are risking bleeding over into more so #baldurs-gate-3-spoilers territory, so i will avoid going into further detail

modest sigil
#

Valid

snow laurel
#

What race would you assume a character named "Hoss Cucamonga" is?

feral lintel
#

Not really a DND Lore question

jagged apex
leaden field
#

what races are there that would be considered to have more deceptive or power hungry personalities?

jagged apex
#

devils and dragons, if thinking more so humanoids, eh, would more so be based around the norms and the cultures of those races, such as lolth=sworn drow aka Udadrow

#

as usually personality and race don't go hand in hand, though there are certain norms, such as green dragons for example who are all about manipulating those they view as lesser

flint orchid
#

How does sardior fit into the lore? Haven't seen any mention of his existence before fizbans treasury and nothing since.

#

Same for the gem dragons

jagged apex
flint orchid
#

That makes sense

eager bay
#

How strong is Bahamut?

jagged apex
#

very, honestly no point really quantifying unless comparing him to other gods

eager bay
#

What're his best feats?

jagged apex
#

in 5e, his aspect, which is a finite fraction of his being, his strength stat is the highest the 5e mechanics allow, easily could go toe to toe with a tarrasque claw for claw

eager bay
#

So his aspect is around like multi city block level?

jagged apex
jagged apex
eager bay
jagged apex
#

and historically one of his breath weapons is basically similar to the breath weapon of godzilla earth from the netflix anime trillogy

#

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Bahamut#Powers
this may also help, but yeah, in the 4e example mentioned in the earlier which also mentions his breath weapon that i described, and that was presumably him in his true self ie not an aspect but his true body ie full power

#

said video also gives a rough example of his breathweapon that is rarely ever used at least on the prime material plane

#

honestly if interested in him including how powerful he is, would definitely give that last lore video i linked a watch as to my knowledge all of the info he covers is from his official published lore over multiple editions

jagged apex
# eager bay What're his best feats?

but if wanting to take the 4e case where he accidently annihilated an entire living plane of existence that was also a god for an entire people, at his max he is effectively universe level, as a plane of existence in dnd is akin to an entire dimension often unless it is a demi-plane, infinite in scale

#

and technically he is not even the strongest dragon god in dnd's multiverse historically, he and tiamat are lesser gods of the draconic pantheon, though most in settings like the forgotten realms have lost most if not all their worshipers and thus influence, with tiamat and bahamut being effectively the only active or major dragon gods on worlds like toril

#

so make of that what you will

jagged apex
eager bay
#

How strong is current Mordenkaiden?

#

Also what's he up to

jagged apex
vale crane
#

for the deck of many things, was there a cost to drawing cards?

sharp owl
#

What do you mean?

#

Do you mean is their a consequence, or do you mean "Do I have to pay someone a fee to draw a card?"

feral lintel
#

There is a general risk to drawing the cards

jagged apex
#

far as i know, closest we have to anyone trying to have some sort of business involving the deck is a niblog named Oddlewin introduced in the book of many things, but am not seeing any indication that he asks for coin or any sort of fee in return for allowing people to draw from the deck of many things he has, at most he may want them to do him a favor first or bring them something specific, as detailed in the book

#

and even then, i don't think what he does would really be classified as a business in any sense of the word, more so for his own amusement

loud totem
#

Are plasmoids prokaryotic organisms?

#

Or at the very least single-celled?

unkempt merlin
#

And they are explicitly multi cellular

jagged apex
#

to quote their player character lore included in 5e spelljammer "Plasmoids are amorphous beings with no typical shape. In the presence of other folk, they often adopt a similar shape, but there’s little chance of mistaking a plasmoid for anything else. They consume food by osmosis, the way an amoeba does, and excrete waste through tiny pores. They breathe by absorbing oxygen through another set of pores, and their limbs are strong and flexible enough to grasp and manipulate weapons and tools. Although most plasmoids are translucent gray, they can alter their color and translucence by absorbing dyes through their pores.

Plasmoids don’t have internal organs of the usual sort. Their bodies are composed of cells, fibers, plasma-like ooze, and clusters of nerves. These nerves enable a plasmoid to detect light, heat, texture, sound, pain, and vibrations. Plasmoids can stiffen the outer layers of their bodies to maintain a humanlike shape, so they can wear clothing and accessories. They speak by forcing air out of tubular cavities that constrict to produce sound." is how their anatomy for lack of a better term is described

loud totem
#

If they're multicellular, they're eukaryotes.

feral lintel
#

Oh, so theu're like Dungeon Meshi slimes then

jagged apex
#

in dnd, since most worlds have magic and thus things are often rooted in different concepts than our own worlds, science does no really transfer 1 to 1 in dnd, especially in universe

iron saffron
#

Remember that D&D isn't a real world simulation, especially the sciences. It's a fantasy game with magic and deities.

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
#

i mean earth is a place in dnd, so i guess may be how a scientist from earth might describe it if they somehow encountered a plasmoid, but honestly at best to my knowledge their lore does not really say what they are in any of our own scientific terms, at best they use comparisons to an amoeba, thus leaving anything further more so up to interpritation than cold hard facts or lore

iron saffron
solid mica
#

Not sure if this is the right channel for this, but is there anyway for any Were creature (wolf, bear, etc) to be permanently stuck in their transformation canonically?

crude blaze
#

Not that I know of

unkempt merlin
#

Stuck or choose to not untransform?

solid mica
unkempt merlin
#

I ask cause any lycanthrope who chooses to embrace their curse can simply just stay transformed

eager bay
#

How powerful is Acererak?

magic jackal
#

Good rule of thumb for future reference, if you've got a straightforward question like that, looking up "Acererak" (or whatever the subject of your question is) on the Forgotten Realms wiki is a good bet. Anyone answering you is probably just going to paraphrase that source.

serene crater
#

quick question, but for FR, are the gods close to humans in regards to personality/capabilities (they can make mistakes at times). I wanted to create two bbeg twins that were both former followers of the red knight until she made a mistake that nearly killed them, thus renouncing her. Though I'm not sure if they're like that or they're beyond such mistakes

jagged apex
#

big time, in dnd, especially forgotten realms, the gods are just as fallable as mortals

#

only real difference besides obviously powers, is when the gods screw up, WAY more people are effected

jagged apex
#

but as a general dnd thing, the gods are by no means infallible, the forgotten realms included

timid tulip
#

wait im confused, are greyhawk and forgotten realms related?

#

mpmm said mordenkainens from greyhawk

#

but i thought he was from faerun

crude blaze
#

Mordenkainen is an archmage who can magically travel between settings

#

He originates from Greyhawk, but could, in theory, appear in any other place that the DM would want him to show up in

timid tulip
#

wait whaaaaaat

#

so he travels to different...

jagged apex
#

several characters travel across the multiverse in dnd, be it to other planes of existence or other settings, especially suffiently powerful magic users like mordenkainen, tasha, elminster, ect...

timid tulip
#

universes? idk what to call it

crude blaze
#

Most of the "named" mages of D&D are the same. Tasha also originates from Greyhawk and appears in different worlds.

timid tulip
#

ohhhhhh

crude blaze
timid tulip
#

oh

jagged apex
crude blaze
#

Multiple different worlds that coexist within the same greater multiverse. It's not easy to go from one world to another, but not impossible. And certain archmages have found ways to do it more easily than your standard wizard.

jagged apex
#

in dnd there are 2 major ways to travel from one setting to another, both of which these days have official 5e incarnations, spelljammer and planescape

#

spelljammer is basically dnd's version of space travel, and planescape is basically more so via portals between planes of existance, and the city at the center of the multiverse, Sigil, which has portals to technically anywhere in the multiverse, including other campaign settings

crude blaze
#

In fairness, I personally feel like unless you're playing specifically in a Spelljammer or Planescape campaign, those two shouldn't be assumed to be "base lore", if that makes sense?

#

Like you can spelljam from one Wildspace to another if you're playing in a Spelljammer campaign, but that doesn't inherently mean that you can do that if you're playing in a non-Spelljammer campaign

#

Could be wrong, that's just kinda how I interpreted it

jagged apex
#

though spelljammer and planescape are not really campaign settings in the traditional sense, they are more like ways that in universe you can connect one setting to another

#

they basically are ways that one can take the scale of any campaign you are in beyond that campaign setting

crude blaze
#

That's what I mean though. Like the concept of Spelljamming only exists in a Spelljamming campaign. If I'm playing something like an adventure module that has nothing to do with Spelljamming, like Rime of the Frostmaiden, I'm not gonna assume that I can eventually purchase a Spelljamming helm and go to another world.

jagged apex
#

personally i disagree on the idea that RotF has nothing to do with spelljamming given one of the specific things in that adventure, but it is largely centered around a specific section of faerun on the world of toril

#

but lore wise they are more so just things that explain wider aspects of the dnd multiverse and how it works at least according to the published continuity sometimes with some suggestions that are more for if one wishes to deviate for their games

iron saffron
# timid tulip wait whaaaaaat

Greyhawk is the setting on the planet Oerth.
Forgotten Realms is the setting on the planet Toril.
Characters such as Mordenkainen can travel between them via magic or spelljammer.

timid tulip
iron saffron
jagged apex
#

but in mordenkainen's case he basically has a magic tower and that is seemingly his main means of traveling the multiverse "By the Year of Twelve Warnings, 1494 DR, Mordenkainen inhabited the Tower of Urm, a dwelling that he used as a vehicle to travel through the multiverse. He occasionally visited Avernus to study the effects of the Nine Hells over the schools of magic and to ensure the balance of the universe." cited as being from "Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus. pages 97-98"

iron saffron
jagged apex
# timid tulip oh there are even planets

campaign settings like the forgotten realms and greyhawk, or wildspace systems as they are call these days with some special cases like eberron, can be anything between a sun and the world where the events take place on, to an entire solar system and anything in between in terms of how much there is to it

sharp owl
#

The statement

the concept of Spelljamming only exists in a Spelljamming campaign
Is to this channel what "encumbrance rules only work that way if the DM decides to use them" is to #dnd-rules, if that makes sense?

thorny hound
#

are there any "fey" dragons besides Faerie Dragons?

feral lintel
#

Moon dragons

modest badger
jagged apex
weak sapphire
#

Does a warlock's pact have to be exclusive to the warlock in question? I had this idea for a warlock character whose parents/parent made a pact with a higher being in order to give their child the power to yada yada yada, so basically someone else has the burden of the pact while the main character gains all the benefits. Probably a stupid question but wanted to make sure if there aren't any rules stating that this would be impossible

iron saffron
#

Lore doesn't deal with gameplay mechanics (aka rules).

#

Taps channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

jagged apex
#

as far as warlock pacts, to my knowledge in lore it is always between the would be warlock and the patron

weak sapphire
weak sapphire
jagged apex
#

even if it was, that would be dependant on your dm

weak sapphire
#

yeah I'll see what they have to say about it

open brook
#

Where are shadow dragons located in the shadowfell?

jagged apex
#

not really any one place

#

they potentially could be any where but odds are they may have certain preferences based on what kind of dragon they were prior to the transformation

#

but in the shadowfell, every place is a dark place, so not really much to keep them from setting up where ever they please except a more powerful being not wanting them there

#

them being native to shadowfell seems to be cited from 4e lore, so seems like something that is not worth putting too much thought into as it seems more often than not they dwell in places with connections to the shadowfell rather than in the shadowfell proper these days

open brook
#

Alright, thanks

ionic hull
#

so, in a world i am trying to make there is an island inhabited by semi-civilised bullywug/grung tribes they worship aztec gods although i am trying to work in some norse mythology into it as there is the world tree in the middle of the island. there are lizardfolk/tortle sages to the tree with a archfey dryad "heimdall" guarding the tree. The tree will have rifts to other planes corresponding with the nine realms of norse mythology. I am trying to create a coup of lizardfolk sages using the lizardfolk king although i am trying to find a motive that links to norse/aztec mythology. I was thinking he could be a herald of Nidhogg but i am not really sure how i could sell it to my players, could someone give me some advice or inspiration for it??

iron saffron
ionic hull
#

oh my bad i thought lore would work my bad

iron saffron
#

This channel deals with official D&D campaign setting lore.

ionic hull
#

oh

#

i thought it was general

#

dnd lore

#

even homebrew

iron saffron
#

Taps channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

ionic hull
#

😅

#

thank you for showing me the right place to ask

open brook
#

Do dragons lay eggs in dnd? This may sound stupid but I’m just double checking

unkempt merlin
#

generally yes

#

but they aren't required for reproduction

open brook
#

Do dragonborn come from eggs or no?

iron saffron
open brook
#

Thanks

silent atlas
#

has there in the lore ever been a dragon that acted outside the norm for its color example a kind red dragon

magic jackal
#

plenty.

#

you can think of dragon alignment more as a very strong inherited tendency from their progenitor, i.e. Tiamat/Bahamut/Sardior as opposed to mandated behavioral patterns

#

they're fully independent and sentient beings, however most tend to embrace that influence, leaving outliers that reject it

silent atlas
serene crater
#

there is only one I can think of, which was a chaotic good green dragon in undermountain in FR. though the only reason it was good was because it had a pure good sword stuck in its skull

jagged apex
#

such individuals are often rare and far apart to where some may not even be well known, in or out of universe

jagged apex
silent atlas
#

Lore wise what kinda dragon would most likely drop in on a group of adventures cause they smelled the adventures stew and was hoping they would share

agile merlin
#

Heck, there could be good aligned demons and devils. A dragon, not even a planar outsider, could certainly be of any alignment
A gold dragon is every bit as greedy as a red dragon, and maybe some golds stop caring what thin-skinned, short-lived mortals think of the ways they expand their hoards

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Mostly Metallics and some Gems

jagged apex
#

if not a silver a dragon, perhaps a moonstone dragon, based on the ideals suggested in fizban's

agile merlin
#

Yeah, but I'm saying if a hamatula can be noble, though probably short lived in the hells, a red or white dragon certainly can as well

jaunty light
#

I think stew won’t fill the dragon up, I think they’d go hunting

agile merlin
#

If an angel can fall, can't a demon rise?

jaunty light
#

Yep

jagged apex
#

in theory, but again, is no easy thing

#

again, it is massively more difficult for extra planar beings to deviate from their nature, plus an angel falling from grace is more than simply becoming evil

feral lintel
#

Yeap. Celestials and Fiends rarely break out of alignment

#

(Although I would have two pennies for the more evil aligned ones turning good)

jagged apex
#

dragons as creatures of the prime would be more likely even if they often stick to certain norms

agile merlin
#

I think it's easier, or at least marginally more common for demons than devils, since they're chaotically inclined, but mostly I'm basing that on the fact there's like three paragraphs about good demons on the Forgotten Realms wiki, but only a sentence or two about good devils

#

Plus, there's trillions and trillions of demons, so rare could still be a number in the millions

feral lintel
#

Stil pretty rare though

jagged apex
#

also, in the case of a stew, from what i know silver dragons can actually survive on rather little food and may even go out to eat in a tavern or something in humanoid form, granted once in a while will have to go out and hunt something more substantial in dragonform, they often may very much spend most of their meals in humanoid form enjoying a new food each meal

feral lintel
#

Extraplanar beings are usually just embodiments of their respective alingments

jaunty light
#

Yeah, I think it’s easier to fall than rise tbh

jagged apex
#

yeah, extra planar beings are metaphysical

agile merlin
#

I'm not even saying it's not rare

jagged apex
#

devils are law and evil personified for example, so to deviate from that is going against a fundimental part of their very existance

#

is possible yes, but is infinitely more unlikely and difficult than it would be a mortal or a dragon

#

often such cases are more so do to them having prolonged exposer in other planes or close proximity to those planes, such is the case with some fiends in 5e planescape, but those are still less than a drop in the bucket in the wider picture of the cosmos

agile merlin
#

But, think about how everything balances out. How no heaven keeps the Abyss in check, but Hell itself. How it almost implies law and chaos are further apart than good and evil, if the best balance for pure, chaotic evil is pure, lawful evil
Is all I'm saying. Plus, a noble demon is some badass shit

jagged apex
#

like i think there are 1 or 2 individuals in 5e planescape that are devils but are good aligned or otherwise deviate from the norm, but those are by no means common cases

agile merlin
#

Yea

#

I never said it's anything but rare

jagged apex
#

well opinions and subjective things like that are not really a factor when talking about the published lore, hence why we are trying to say while possible is far less likely to actually happen than you seem to possibly think

agile merlin
#

It's not like angels are lining up to fall into sin, either

jagged apex
#

honestly, rare is probably an understandment

#

plus in the case of an angel's fall from grace it is often a mistake in which they genuinely believe they are in the right and doing the right thing, angels rarely are allowed on the prime material plane because of this, they operate in the moral extremes of the outer planes and are not for lack of a better term, trained to handle the nuances and shades of grey that are often associated with the lives of mortal creatures

#

zariel in addition to being like one of if not the most famous example, is a great example of this process, in my opinion at least, if you are familiar with the details of her story

jaunty light
#

And also you got the Erinyes I believe they’re called? They’re fallen angels turned Baatezu