#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 24 of 1

magic jackal
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Yep

spark haven
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it's not even a self-consistent body of work

ripe tinsel
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Thank you for your help

spark haven
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i'm curious about Franz Ferdinand though

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There's a non-zero amount of canon crossover into Earth/real-life. I can't recall the source but there's a story about how foxes aren't native to Faerun, they were imported by a multiversal halfling traveler?

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so it almost sounds plausible

grim siren
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Yea TSR did a lot of Earth to Faerun stuff.

spark haven
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that tracks

ripe tinsel
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The Franz Ferdinand thing was a meme

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But is there anything in dnd lore comparable to a world war ?

grim siren
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I mean the mulhorandi people are just straight up earth Egyptians captured by an advanced humanoid race and brought to faerun to be slaves for the aliens pretending to be gods. Its like Jeff Grub and the Stargate Writers were passing the good stuff in the same room.

grim siren
ripe tinsel
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Ok thanks

grim siren
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I know there are modules you can play with the Grand Armies invasion. But I think the Last war is not meant to be little more than setting dressing and definition.

iron saffron
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In the Dragon Magazine articles Elminister and other archmages would visit Ed on Earth.

white ravine
jagged apex
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there is the inhuman wars of spelljammer back in 2e, the orc gate wars on toril, and the thousand year war between giants and dragons on toril, "The Last War" of the eberron setting which took place over a hundred years according to the 5e sourcebook eberron: rising from the last war, and no doubt many more but those are at least some of the most notable ones off the top of my head

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oh and the crown wars on toril, basically many elf civil wars

fallow leaf
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tbf also just remember a lot of those are ancient history except for inhuman wars and the last war

unkempt hull
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im hearing asmodeus' true form is a snake

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true?

spark haven
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that's one of the rumors

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nobody in-fiction seems able or willing to confirm

wanton ginkgo
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Oh

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Perfect place for me to share an idea I came up with.

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My friend asked if I had any lore I wanted to see in the campaign.

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Made me come up with this

iron saffron
wanton ginkgo
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Fo real?

iron saffron
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Taps on channel's sign:

For discussion of the lore of the various WotC published D&D settings. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're talking about, eg [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc

ember crest
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Hey, guys I have a question: Are there Eladrin in Evermeet? Given that Evermeet was transported to the Feywild, I guess so. But wherere there Eladrin in Evermeet before that?

white ravine
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So in older editions apparently each devil had unique lessons they had to learn and unique tortures for promotion, any insights on that?

distant brook
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Is the whole fey namestealing thing actually true?

iron saffron
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Never heard of such a thing.

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Where'd you heard/read about this?

white ravine
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From a lore video im listening to. The thing that made me perk up and take it seriously was the guy mentioned how during promotion, potential pit fiends are lowered into fire, rising out as full pit fiends

iron saffron
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Sorry, I was responding to Charming Oracle.

white ravine
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oh

distant brook
iron saffron
white ravine
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Lol its good

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Believe it was...2e?

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Where the source is from, at least from what the video mentioned

iron saffron
white ravine
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Ahah!

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Very good

iron saffron
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2E Planescape was such a vast resource. I'm dreading WotC's handling of 5E Planescape after 5E Spelljammer (I'm looking at you the removal of Crystal Spheres and sailing in the Astral Sea instead of the Phlogiston!)

white ravine
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Furious grumbling intensifies

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Lady of Pain statblock here we come!

crude blaze
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Phlogiston sucked anyways imo

iron saffron
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I just don't care for sailing in the Astral Sea because the Astral Plane/Sea is suppose to be transitional plane between the Material and Outer Planes (but I digress).

white ravine
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S'like if you flew into space and were transported to Wisconsin...

iron saffron
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I'm lactose-intolerant so that's a nightmare with all that cheese...

white ravine
iron saffron
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It explodes!

jagged apex
white ravine
jagged apex
white ravine
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Thats a bad thing?

calm crest
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It’s an excellent plan if your goal is to make a firelich!

jagged apex
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exploding often leads to death, and death in the phlogoston means you don't pass on to an after life, you become trapped there until you possess some poor passer by's body and then once in a crystal sphere would lead to, something i apparently can't say in this server as it is blocked, and thus the host

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in short was a grusome and undesirable fate for anyone in universe

iron saffron
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Why not just use/expand Wildspace instead replacing it with the Astral Sea (other than "Hey, look the word 'sea' is in it and spelljamming ships 'sail' in space!")

jagged apex
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wildspace in 5e has a bit of slightly different context

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it more or less takes place of crystal spheres, is the space in the material plane between each other and the astral plane/sea there various planets and settings are

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honestly, for the hazards the 5e continuity version removes that made it hazardous in 2e, there are added new hazards just by virtue of what all is in the astral plane and how it works

iron saffron
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Again, the Astral Plane is suppose to be a transitionary plane between the Material and Outer Planes rather than inbetween worlds of the Material Plane.

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I just found it creatively lazy on WotC's part...

jagged apex
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it is basically used as a cosmic short cut

iron saffron
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But Spelljammer wasn't about traversing the planes.

jagged apex
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it is not a primary focus, but you sort of could still do it

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at least to my knowledge, but that was then and this is now and the differences in cosmologies required some changes likely

iron saffron
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Well, good thing I can ignore 5E Spelljammer's changes at my table...

calm crest
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The model the planes as such just seems cleaner:

Outer
^
Astral
^
Prime > Phlogiston > Prime
v
Ethereal
v
Inner

jagged apex
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eh, for you at least

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honestly the description of how the area where one transitions in modern spelljamming between the astral and wild space, the rainbow coloring which is even seen in a lot of the art, arguably the phlogiston lives on somehow having merged to become a sort of buffer between the prime and the astral

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after all, portals to the astral being on the prime material plane and being invisible is nothing new, no reason they can't exist abundantly in wildspace and basically a allow a subjectively safer route for those wishing to sail the space waves and or around the cosmos

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and honestly, nobody even said that spelljammer in 5e was about traversing the planes, it if anything allows that option on top of what it traditionally has been used for, just without you having to worry about the pains of the phlogiston that made combat in transit a huge pain in the ass

iron saffron
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Ethereal is a transitionary plane between the Material and Inner Planes.
Astral is the transitionary plane between the Material and Outer Planes.

It has been like that since 1E AD&D's Great Wheel until 4E changed the cosmology with the introduction of the Elemental Chaos but then 5E reverted back to the Great Wheel.

jagged apex
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plus technically, if you recall the stories about tharzidun's fall, NOBODY was ever intented to see let alone enter the astral plane

iron saffron
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Well, it's a good thing space combat in 5E Spelljammer is very lacking (WotC: "Eh, just have the PCs board the other ship...")

jagged apex
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anyways this sounds like is less of a lore talk and on the verge of becoming edition wars or just shitting one one edition for some petty reason or matter of personal preference

iron saffron
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Sorry...

jagged apex
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by the way, apparently bhaal's avatars, one of the other slaad lords, 2 archdevils, cryonax, and pazuzu got 5e statblocks in "minsc and boo's journal of villainy"

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they even got new artwork too

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and seems by Baalzebul's he's been lying again to his fellow devils, as he is depicted in his monsterous slug form, which the 5e incarnation looks like something you might see in dark souls

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granted this might be old news to some, but oddly i was not even aware of it until earlier today

iron saffron
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It was never added to D&D Beyond even though other Extra Life stuff were in previous years.

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I'm surprised they still haven't added in.

crude blaze
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I think we might be seeing more Extra Life stuff in the future

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We saw the Domains of Delight port over, which I know isn’t Extra Life, but at this rate, now that they have a Partnered Content category, who’s to say?

iron saffron
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Wasn't hte Domains of Delight essentially a "DLC" to Witchlight?

jagged apex
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that is one way to put it, was basically some extra stuff that didn't make it into the book proper

formal ore
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Guys, is the deity Shar still alive in the lore?

jagged apex
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yep

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to my knowledge she has not even come close to dying

formal ore
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On the forgotten realms wiki it uses the past tense. "Was".

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*Shar (pronounced: /ʃɑːr/ shahr[1][5][6] pronounced: /ˈʃɑːr/ SHAHR[4]), also known as Mistress of the Night and the Lady of Loss, was the goddess of darkness and the night in the Faerûnian pantheon and the malevolent twin sister and counterpart to the goddess of the moon, Selûne

jagged apex
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well a lot of her notable appearances and actions was in the past

formal ore
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I'm new to all of this so confused.

iron saffron
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All of the entries on the FR wiki are in the past tense.

formal ore
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Ok.

jagged apex
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basically unless their status lables them as a "dead power" they are effectviely alive

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is just again, most of if not all their actions in published materials are technically in the past, even the latest forgotten realms material other than what is currently being promoted in the meta sense, is past tense to some extent

iron saffron
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There's no assumption that players are will necessarily be playing in the "current" year in 5E.

jagged apex
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if anything they will likely at least behind in some regard, since time much like our world is always passing day to day, just don't get written material on all the goings on, it would not only be largely stuff people would find boring, but they'd likely go bankrupt trying to market or sell all that stuff

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mainly cuz the constant money you'd be spending on the materials needed to make the books and writers being hired to pen or type those words onto the paper

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probably why the sort of meta in universe lore is just that every now and then Elminster and some of his collogues visit Ed greenwood on earth and he basically reworks their research on toril into materials to sell to wizards of the coast XD

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which i do find details like that both interesting and halarious XD

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along with the the fact that quote "Elminster's favorite place to relax and find rest off Toril was found in Yellowstone National Park on Earth. He kept a magic portal there from his hideout within the planet Coliar, specifically to the Earth year 1894 AD. It was also here that he purchased German beer to sell to his friend Gamalon Idogyr."

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i love the idea that elminster has canonically traveled to earth's past, to buy and resell german beer to one of his friends XD

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Toril, much like earth in our own system, being the 3rd

crude blaze
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(Still should've been in the book, imo)

iron saffron
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That's the problem is that WotC doesn't really make full setting books. The campaign books in new settings lack the enough DM-centric stuff for the setting (see Strixhaven, Dragonlance, Witchlight). In previous editions we would have gotten several splat books.

jagged apex
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which from what i hear had it's own series of pros and cons and why they have moved away from them in more recent years

unkempt merlin
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But what you are complaining about is moreso just a symptom of their release cadence they chose for 5e

crude blaze
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Strixhaven's problem is that (I think) it already didn't have enough lore before they decided to make it a D&D setting, so that was just a stupid idea in general imo.

jagged apex
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(this seems less lore and more meta and merch/the actual game)

jagged apex
iron saffron
jagged apex
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and unlike theros to my knowledge it does not lean heavily into inspiration from a specific real world mythology so even less to look to for ideas and simply adapt to dnd and then more so to that world/setting

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like theros is very heavily inspired by greek mythology from what i know of the setting and have seen

crude blaze
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OOp, sorry, just reread. "Campaign books".

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Either way, save for Strixhaven, I think the other two modules provided exactly as much as was required for running the adventure, so I have no qualms against them.

jagged apex
jagged apex
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did phandalin always have a paper or is this suppose to imply stuff like the printing press, or what ever the people of toril call their version of it, is getting more wide spread use?

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can't help but be curious

jagged apex
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anyone know if we have established info on if half-dragons can succumb to ceremorphosis? like so long as the non draconic half of the host is a humanoid?

weary aurora
crude blaze
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Trying as hard as I can, from a quick glance at the newspaper they just posted, nothing really seems… new?

distant brook
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What would the feywild version of waterdeep be like?

distant brook
jagged apex
jagged apex
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so if there is info on such a scenario i would be interested in knowing what is said if anything on the matter

jagged apex
# distant brook What would the feywild version of waterdeep be like?

if it indeed would be an eladrin city this is what we know about their cities "Unlike other elves, eladrin did not feel a pressing need to return to Arvandor. Instead, they found themselves more strongly connected with the Feywild. There, their cities displayed extraordinary feats of elven architecture, blending magic, nature, and structures into awe-inspiring landscapes. The culture of eladrin civilization was older than any other elven culture in the multiverse."

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basically top tier elven architecture, with lots of magic and nature, cuz well those 2 things are overly abundant in the feywild by nature

distant brook
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👍

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Is this from the city of Arvandor?

jagged apex
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no idea but no, arvandor is basically the elven heaven, you may be thinking of evermeet

white ravine
jagged apex
tawny obsidian
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If a Druid bathes in wildshape, are they actually getting clean?

iron saffron
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Um, what?

white ravine
tawny obsidian
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It's an odd concept I know, but a debate that my friends and I have been having, if a Druid turns into a bear to swim into a lake and bath, would the Druid be cleaner when they came out of the lake

iron saffron
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This isn't really a lore question but a more of an "Ask your DM" one as it's more narrative than lore.

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Lore is basically history.

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Ask your DM.

tawny obsidian
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That makes sense, I couldn't think of where else to post it

iron saffron
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Ask your DM...

tawny obsidian
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It's more I wanted to hear other people's opinions, sorry

iron saffron
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What we say on this server is moot if your DM says you're a dirty druid.

upbeat elm
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I mean if the bear dies is the druid injured/dead when they un-shape? No. So therefore the druid would not be cleaner in my dm world 😉

white ravine
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That's...a good point. If shapeshifting morphs all your gear into yourself it'd likely morph in any...blood, mud, and guts.

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...Horrible.

balmy hill
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Okay, I DM a [Spelljammer] campaign, and, in the next module, the team is going to visit the home of Bonnie Bananas, an NPC crew member of theirs. Bonnie is a Hadozee. So, of course, there's basically nothing about them I could find, except that they come from Yazir.

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Digging deep deep, I found that the Hadozee and the Plasmoids come from an old IP of WotC's called Star Frontier, and there are other IPs from that which were converted into earlier editions of DnD. So, for the purposes of my campaign, I did some heavy research and updating and incorporating to generate a couple new spheres to accompany Realmspace, Xaryxispace, Darkspace, Clusterspace, Herospace, Greyspace, Greatspace, Krynnspace, and Faeriespace.

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If it helps anyone, this is what I'm rolling with:
Fronture Sphere: A sphere where the Rastipedes developed spelljammer technology and used these spelljammers to visit the other worlds of the sphere. Now all planets of Fronture have and use spelljammer technology, and there is a cooperative relationship between the various groundlings.

  • Sun Fronture, a large yellow dwarf star
  • Planet Yazir and the Hadozee, subtropical rainforest jungle planet with rivers, lakes, and swamps. The Hadozee live in communal societies in balance with nature.
  • Planet Vrusk and the Rastipede, an industrialized urban world of solar-powered corporations and conglomerates with just the necessary amount of controlled flora, fauna, and water resources. Rastipedes completely control the planet. Rastipedes are extremely advanced centipedal two-armed and three-legged sentients.
  • Planet Dralas and the Plasmoids, an oceanic world of countless volcanic icelandic islands with natural geysers and hot springs, bridges, and tunnels. Plasmoids live around freshwater bodies, mostly living as hermits, occasionally seeking adventure.
  • Planet Gamma and the variant Humans, a revitalized low-technology frontier world following an apocalypse that took place eons ago as a result of the dangerous unbridled technology of their human forefathers.
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The Syllix Fleets:

  • Destroyed planet Sathar and the Syllix, a fork-tongued, segmented worm looking invertebrate species that uses four tentacles as arms and legs only when needed.
  • They have their own spelljammer technology where special albino Syllix are cultured as spelljammer pilots.
  • The Syllix have an advanced spelljammer fleet that they use for exploring, scouting, and invading.
  • The Syllix consumed all the resources on their own planet, Sathar, until destroyed, and they have since made expansion of the species to other habitable worlds their manifest destiny. They believe themselves to be naturally superior. Thus, they do not care if there are already sentient groundlings at their new residences when they take over, and they easily resort to violence to achieve their aims.
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well, the Zebulon Sphere may have been automodded, but hopefully the rest helps anyone doing a spelljammer campaign involving the hadozee or the plasmoids.

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hopefully, the moderators can un-mod the Zebulon Sphere piece, though

summer tulip
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Bit of an odd question. Does anyone know how prominant magical healers are in FR are supposed to be?

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Clerics and priest come to mind of course, but does material give a rough idea of how many can utilize healing magic?

iron saffron
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The Church of Ilmater does a lot of healing, especially for the poor and sick.

summer tulip
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Yeah. Mainly concerned cause I have a player wanting to play a physician type character (rogue with medical expertise). But like if every Joe shmoe can heal you magically might step on his toes

iron saffron
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Healer's kit doesn't heal damage.

summer tulip
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Exactly. I know there is the healer feat but even there mileage will vary

balmy hill
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Well, the DMG breaks out tiers of renown. If you consider all healers to fall within that rubric, then there are likely many many healers at Tier 1, less at Tier 2, basically none at Tier 3, and maybe one or two Tier 4s in the world.

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So, if your player wants to be a physician, then they will need to rise above the joe schmoes at Tier 1 of renown and distinguish themselves

summer tulip
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Ech. That's going to be an uphill battle for player I fear. 😬 Appreciate the input!

balmy hill
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Of course. As DM, you could also have this player seek out and collect medical books, and for each medical book (or each 3 perhaps), the player gets a +1 to Medicine checks. You are the DM. It's your world.

torpid quartz
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Is there actually any lore on the Far Realm other than “weird aberration place that you don’t want to be in and that no one knows anything about”?

white ravine
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Uhhh...that's a tough one.

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Okay, are you familiar with the X Y Z axis system?

torpid quartz
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the irl one? ye

white ravine
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Yeah. To describe the far realm, that needs some changing.

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It's now the X Y Z ∅ axis system.

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The ∅ in this equation is dimensional shifting.

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I can't even begin to paraphrase this so I'm gonna just copy paste.

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Bless the wiki.

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'The Far Realm comprised an infinite number of layers. Unlike the layers of many Outer Planes, these layers were very thin, ranging from an inch to a mile in thickness, each separated from the next by around ten feet. These layers were also transparent, and travelers could glimpse through twenty or so, with each appearing increasingly blurred.

The layers were also highly morphic. On the whim of the alien entities that drifted through them, the layers continually evaporated, divided, spawned, and breathed. Changes in the elemental and energy traits of the layers continuously occurred, creating the Far Realm equivalent of a storm. These changes could be seen from far off, moving from layer to layer rather like a storm drifting across a natural world.

On the Far Realm, landmarks and entities were multidimensional, existing on multiple layers at once. One could imagine the layers as a stack of translucent parchment, with a given feature appearing as a single mark upon each page. Taken individually, such marks might have no meaning, but when viewed all together in the stack, they seemingly coalesced into a three-dimensional object.

#

Although full of a dark nothingness, the Far Realm was full of bizarre scenes and what passed for wilderness. The translucent layers were penetrated by rivers of milky white fluid that floated freely, sometimes flowed along a layer's edge for a few feet, then poured through into the next layer. Strange blue globes rained down from unseen heights, bursting when they struck something and unleashing horse-sized ticks that immediately scuttled away to hunt for blood. Gelatinous worms crawled through the layers. Forests of writhing tentacled vegetation were encrusted with orange moss, growing above an amoebic sea. At the very limit of sight drifted huge multi-layer shapes, vaguely resembling creatures of the deepest ocean, but the smallest being was the size of a city, and they didn't even notice the lesser beings that occupied only a single layer.

Gravity and time did not exist in the Far Realm. The only kind of movement possible on the Far Realm was passage between layers, which needed only a thought. The air was as viscous as syrup—it was possible to swim through it, though it was very hard.'

torpid quartz
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okay that is weird

white ravine
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Yeah.

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Frankly, I should've put this as #1...

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Got cushy in my memory of it that I forgot it's horrible in every sense.

torpid quartz
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how do you travel to the far realm?

white ravine
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Uhhh...

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Not easily.

balmy hill
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Yes, the Far Realm, the Filo Dough of realms

white ravine
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Think of the ways you'd get into the back rooms

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It's akin to that.

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You either end up there on sheer happenstance, or you do an incredibly complex set of gamebreaking glitches to noclip out of reality.

torpid quartz
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so does the far realm kinda overlap the normal planes?

white ravine
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Not really. It's very isolated away from the normal planes

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In the sense that every set of normal planes has to deal with it.

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And that 'it' is the same far realm every time.

torpid quartz
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so its kinda everywhere?

balmy hill
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It's very much like back rooms in my mind. So, it would not overlap because it is outside of the production version of reality

white ravine
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From eberron to krynn to athas to ravnica, it's all one far realm encompassing it all.

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When you get too far out of reality, the far realm opens up to you

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And it's the physical equivalent of getting a lobotomy with a jackhammer.

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You go in there, you do not come out the same.

torpid quartz
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ah okay

white ravine
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The best example are the Kaorti, a group of wizards went into it to try and gather research

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They did not take it well.

torpid quartz
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while im here, who are the spell guys, like otto and mordenkainen and those guys? ik who xanathar and tasha are, no one other than that

balmy hill
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Look up Max Headroom. I imagine being there is like that, but more extreme

white ravine
iron saffron
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The Far Realm is beyond the known multiverse, hence the far realm...

white ravine
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Someone's gotta do the heavy lifting

torpid quartz
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mordenkainen appears a lot, is he like a main guy or something?

white ravine
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He gets around

iron saffron
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Mordenkainen, Bigby, and the other "named" archmages were once PCs in Gary Gygax's campaign.

torpid quartz
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ah okay

iron saffron
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They were part of the group called The Eight.

balmy hill
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Power rivaling gods, quite literally in Tasha's case

iron saffron
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Iggwilv is the mother to the god Iuz

torpid quartz
torpid quartz
balmy hill
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Tasha is not male

torpid quartz
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tasha isnt in the eight

balmy hill
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True, but she is one of the few legendary named wizards

torpid quartz
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i was referring to the eight tho when i made that statement

balmy hill
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Well, the origins of DND were notably less liberal minded at the beginning

iron saffron
torpid quartz
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Still all human wizards?

iron saffron
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Remember that D&D derived from wargaming which was dominated by middle aged male nerds (and this is decades before geek was chic).

balmy hill
iron saffron
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Only humans could be wizards of high level. Other races had level caps.

torpid quartz
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Oh seriously?

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Never knew that

iron saffron
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AD&D

iron saffron
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Just be glad being a nerd/geek is now mainstream acceptable today.

modest badger
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2e's Cirlce of eight did have one female wizard, and of course one of the other male wizards makes a fuss about that

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Jallarzi Sallivarian

iron saffron
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Season 4 of Stranger Things was too close to home on how nerds/geeks were ostrocized back in the 80s 😛

balmy hill
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The name just screams Slytherin

torpid quartz
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It’s funny AD&D is literally over twice my age

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DnD has stuck around a long time

iron saffron
modest badger
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TBH, the ostraciation of geeks wasn't why women weren't involved more heavily in D&D. The Hobby was also actively not welcoming at times to any women who were interested. But that's getting a bit away from lore.

iron saffron
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Which member of the Eight was the traitor? Rory?

balmy hill
vivid sphinx
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but I also came for a question, what lore if any is there on the Far Realm itself?

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in more of a concise manner than abyss comparison

iron saffron
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Not much.

jagged apex
brisk urchin
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Question

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Is the fey wilds such a danagerous plane saying my charcter is from there is to far fetched?

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I’m trying to make a V.Human WM With the Fey touched feat and just wanted to ask if saying he is actually from the fey wilds and he accidentally casted a spell that sent him to water deep to far fetched as a back story?

distant brook
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Where are each of the fey courts located in relation to the material plane?

sharp owl
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Locations aren't fixed in the feywild

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It's a maleable place

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The geography often mirrors the prime material (the feywild counts as part of the material plane) but the domains of the archfey can vary

tame locust
# brisk urchin I’m trying to make a V.Human WM With the Fey touched feat and just wanted to ask...

This is really a DM question, if you have a DM.

The fey are famous for stealing babies, and the feywild is famoys for messing with time.

It makes plenty of sense to suggest your character was kidnapped at birth by the fey, and has recently realized where they really came from.

The feywild intersects with the real world in several places... perhaps in every ring of mushrooms and by every ruin.

Having your human be FROM the feywild can raise certain issues. So, be prepared with possible explanations if your DM needs them.

1: most tales have the stolen human babies raised to become some sort of Fey. Why is yours still human?

2: the Banishment spell sends extraplanar characters back to their native planes indefinitely. Are you prepared to deal with that? Is your party prepared? A DM can make all sorts of options for "lets go to the feywild and get our buddy" but the party has to agree to do it. Otherwise, you have to figure out how to solo out of feywild and back to them. The process is also complicated by communication issues.

3: how does being from the feywild relate to your character's background? Many were designed for people born on the material plane. Those from other planes... not so clear.

balmy hill
eager bay
#

Who's the strongest God across the entirety of Dungeons and Dragons?

#

I'm reading it's either Oghma or Moradin

iron saffron
#

Both are greater gods.

#

From 3.5E Deities & Demigods and Faiths & Pantheons:
Oghma is divine rank 16 (bard 20/wizard 20/cleric 5)
Moradin is divine rank 19 (fighter 20/expert 14/cleric 15)

#

The most powerful deity is Ao, the only known overgod.

modern mirage
#

I wondered recently what is the best and most common method of travelling to an alternate universe ? Just curious because I’ve often thought of writing a crossover fic involving D&D (Forgotten Realms)

balmy hill
modest badger
#

Dreams of the Blue Veil in 5e.
But Planescape, Silverstaircases, Portals to the Astral Sea and then to other planes, Portals in general, Spelljammers.

modern mirage
stuck jungle
#

@modern mirage Honestly, it depends on the cosmology of your multiverse.

balmy hill
#

So, if you are traveling from one material universe to another, then your best bet is probably a spelljammer. If you are going outside of the material plane, like to the Shadowfell or Feywild, then that would certainly require something like a portal or gate, but those could also be used to travel to other locations on the material plane.

modest badger
#

Dreams of the Blue Veil is also a spell that lets you travel to another plane/realm if you already have an item from there.

#

You and up to eight willing creatures within range fall unconscious for the spells’ duration and experience visions of another world on the Material Plane, such as Oerth, Toril, Krynn, or Eberron. If the spell reaches its full duration, the visions conclude with each of you encountering and pulling back a mysterious blue curtain. The spell then ends with you mentally and physically transported to the world that was in the visions.
But again, you need an item from that world (and also be aware of that)

modern mirage
#

I think I should clarify what my story idea is exactly, the basic concept being two dragons some how arriving in Westeros the main setting of the books a song of ice and fire, I’m thinking a silver and green dragon, a protagonist and antagonist

modest badger
#

Dragons are also weird in 5e and might be able to do that.

balmy hill
modern mirage
modest badger
#

A little-known phenomenon supports the central ideas expressed in "Elegy for the First World." Occasionally, dragons develop a sense known as dragonsight—an awareness of multiple incarnations of themselves across different worlds of the Material Plane.
-Fizban's Treasury of Dragons

modern mirage
modest badger
#

Gems are the most likely to develop it,

balmy hill
spark haven
#

sure, but a dragon who acieves that singularity now has an entire multiverse of probability at their disposal

#

one of their selves is probably in a world where someone nearby has invented portals

#

it only takes one

modest badger
#

It gives them more means to use spells to reach other and be aware of other worlds.

spark haven
#

the ability to collaborate on research like that is also kinda unprecedented

balmy hill
balmy hill
spark haven
#

oh thank god, i was trying to find a pop culture reference other than the Council of Ricks

#

not that a CW show sets a much higher bar

modern mirage
#

Another thing I was wondering is dragons like old naw bones (Claugiyliamatar) have been trying to gain the same kind of polymorphing as metallic dragons but is it even possible ?

modest badger
#

Most can learn the shapechange spell which they use instead. And the natural ability to shapechange has been a bit of an iffy one in D&D lore.
If i recall in AD&D only Golds and Bronzes could shapechange naturally into humanoids.
Then Silvers could.
Now all metallics can.

But there have been cases of Chromatic dragons taking humanoid form in stories and games- but it's unclear which method they use.

jagged apex
#

gem dragons also have that ability, as of fizban's release a while back

modern mirage
#

I was thinking of disregarding pre-existing lore and simply giving my green dragon the ability to change shape like a metallic but it did make me wonder if there was an in universe cannon method

spark haven
#

a dragon of any reasonable age would probably have the resources to shapechange

#

either by learning the magic directly or through magic items acquired by force or diplomacy

pearl mist
#

A dragon could wear a ring with that effect.

modern mirage
#

Does anyone have tips for naming dragons ? They have long silly names sometimes hehe

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

historically the only breed of chromatic dragons to have innate shape changing abilities are the deep dragons, aka purple dragons

modern mirage
iron saffron
modern mirage
iron saffron
#

Taps channel's sign:

For discussion of the lore of the various WotC published D&D settings. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're talking about, eg [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc

#

If you want to know the names of known dragons in Faerun, then sure.

jagged apex
# modern mirage Does anyone have tips for naming dragons ? They have long silly names sometimes ...

as described in fizban's "Some dragons’ names resonate with power and inspire terror: Ashardalon, Dragotha, Klauth, Khellendros, Malystryx, Vaskar. Others are intricate and obscure, reflecting the grandeur of dragons’ ancient language: Ingeloakastimizilian, Imvaernarhro, K’rshinthintl, Claugiyliamatar. Many dragons are better known by nicknames and epithets. Klauth is commonly called Old Snarl, and Khellendros is remembered as Skie and the Storm over Krynn. Ingeloakastimizilian is Icingdeath, Imvaernarhro is Inferno, and K’rshinthintl and Claugiyliamatar are called Cyan Bloodbane and Old Gnawbones, respectively. When naming a dragon, take whatever approach appeals to you. But bear in mind that dragons need memorable names, and if you or your players have trouble pronouncing a name, it’s likely to be quickly forgotten—or jokingly abbreviated."

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

it also happens to include a table with various elements of draconic names and further tips

modern mirage
iron saffron
#

Again, not a lore question.

modern mirage
#

I disagree with your opinion

iron saffron
#

Taps on channel's sign again:

For discussion of the lore of the various WotC published D&D settings. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're talking about, eg [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc

modern mirage
#

Yeah I read that and still believe it’s an appropriate question based on the fact I’m asking specifically about the official main setting

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Look it up in Fizban's or the older editions' Dragonomicon books.

modern mirage
modern mirage
iron saffron
#

DMs Guild.

grim siren
#

The DMsGUILD is the best blessing 5e has given

iron saffron
#

2E and 3E had a lot of lore-related splat books lost to the ages if not for DMs Guild, such as the various 2E Volo's Guide books.

modern mirage
#

I’ve never heard of this tbh

iron saffron
#

DMs Guild (and DriveThruRPG) is an online store owned by OneBookShelf. DMs Guild exclusively published OCR older D&D edition books in PDF format.

jagged apex
modern mirage
jagged apex
#

i find it hilarious that in draconic baka basically means the military rank of private, cuz irl in japanese, the same word means "idiot" or "stupid" in japanese

iron saffron
#

Well, the Japanese NCOs would probably call the privates "baka"

jagged apex
#

lol, especially when they screw up

modern mirage
balmy hill
white ravine
modern mirage
#

I’d want a long silly name that gets shortened into a nickname but one is playfully silly while the other is silly because it’s tying to be like regal and powerful but fails

white ravine
#

Here's my trick:

#

Go into there, get 2-3 names, stick em together with glue.

#

For example: Kymber|gaghi|nyrth

#

Though this isn't really the channel for this tbh

balmy hill
#

But, as has been mentioned, now we are out of lore and into just world building

spark haven
white ravine
#

Claugiyliamatar

spark haven
#

Sapkowski had a few other really awesome dragon names: Myrgtabrakke is one of my favorites

iron saffron
#

When you're making up names this is no longer lore.

It's like instead of asking historians the names of historical Roman emperors you ask for random names that sound Latin.

fathom rapids
#

Is the Underdark something that exists in every D&D setting, or is it specific to the Forgotten Realms?

#

Because I was under the assumption that its just a place that happens to exist in FR, and not extradimensional in any way, but there are a LOT of D&D monsters that specifically come from the underdark, including ones that got printed in Monsters of the Multiverse

iron saffron
#

Greyhawk has an Underdark.

#

The classic AD&D Vault of the Drow module (part of the Queen of the Spiders series) was in Greyhawk

fathom rapids
iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

Yea in a lot of settings the underdark is just well. A deep section of the material plane. Exandria has one as well.

#

Others like Eberron don't have one. Khyber is in some ways similar to an Underdark, but it also heavily consists of demiplanes and portals.

iron saffron
#

The Underdark is just the subterranean part of a world. I don't think it's anything extradimensional.

unkempt merlin
#

Correct

#

It's just a commonly used thing for settings. Similar to the existence of gods or other planes.

iron saffron
#

The Feywild is an "echo" of the Material Plane so I'm sure that its version of the Underdark is where the dark fey would reside in.

fathom rapids
unkempt merlin
#

Not all planes are shared

fathom rapids
#

But I digress. Mainly I was asking if these different Underdarks would have any sort of inherent magical connection between them, but it seems the answer is no.

#

I just happens to be a "coincidental" shared feature of various different worlds

#

If what you are telling me is correct

iron saffron
#

It's only in 5E that FR moved over to the Great Wheel cosmology. It used the World Tree cosmology before that. (And we'll ignore 4E mess of the World Axis cosmology altogether).

fathom rapids
#

I have no idea what that means

iron saffron
#

The Material Plane is shared among the different campaign setting worlds and could be travelled between them via spelljamming ships.

modest badger
iron saffron
#

I stand corrected (sorry, not a Greyhawk person despite playing early AD&D Greyhawk-based modules).

modest badger
#

It's also including things that aren't explicitly Greyhawk, like the Dungeoneer's Survival guide suggested locations and some modules that are very easy to fit into Greyhawk, but are not explicitly set there (Like Carl Sargent's Night Below).
But again, he does mark his sources so still a fun resource.

#

But yes, Greyhawk has an underdark. The underdark and drow debuted in Greyhawk before they did in Faerun. Oerth's underdark is similar, but rather than Faerezz it has 'unusual radiation' that seems to come from a mineral called turnkeoite that decays into lacofcite, which affects darkvision (infra/ ultra vision in 1e), messes with teleportation and divination spells going in or out, and also seems to give the drow extra magic (which is why Drow items and even drow themselves would lose power if they stayed away too long from their 'homeland').

iron saffron
#

The "radiation" bit was a gameplay mechanic so that the enemy drow could have strong magic items that the PCs could loot but would be worthless on the surface.

modest badger
#

And why drow PCs weren't as strong as NPC drows from the get go. No sorry, you don't get all those cool spells, uh, because you, um, haven't had your booster radiation for a while so gone, lost forever.

fathom rapids
#

This is all no longer canon though, right?

modest badger
#

As far as I'm aware Greyhawk still has Lacofcite and Turnkeoite instead of Faerezz as it's explanation.
As for why drow items now fade, or why drow PCs don't have all the cool abilities regular drow seem to have (but do have a fair bit- least compared to common drow) the lore isn't repeated, but that was the explanation. So one of those cases of 'I don't think it's been explicitly dropped or contradicted yet'.

#

Also Remember Greyhawk never really lived past 4e. There were some Dungeon and Dragon magazine articles for it in 4e, and 3.5 had Living Greyhawk Gazeteer and the RPGA and a few other books like 'Drow of the Underdark', but the majority of Greyhawk lore still sits in it's AD&D days.

#

Yeah, still Lacofcite and Turnkeoite in 3.5 Drow of the Underdark

woeful ravine
#

Question. I've realised that i'm incredibly missing fantasy books and want to start reading something from DnD universe. Can someone give me advise, what books "must read" to someone who want to explore book lore of Sword's coast and Faerun?

iron saffron
#

5E's Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (personally it's not worth the money as it's super thin).

sacred root
#

In the forgotton realms, I want my warlocks patron to be a god of war, or something similar. are there any reccomendations of characters you think would fit good as a patron?

iron saffron
#

Warlock patrons tend not be deities.

#

Deities have clerics and paladins they bestow divine powers to.

sacred root
#

oh, are there any NON-dieties youd reccomend? like a demon or something?

iron saffron
sacred root
#

oh ok, thanks, I wanted it to be a character within the lore, I'll preface it over there.

inland sleet
sacred root
#

hexbldae

iron saffron
inland sleet
#

Like sure you could take the Fiend warlock and pick a devil general of the Blood War.
Or the genies of air and fire that has a war in southern forgotten realms

sacred root
#

yeah, im gone

inland sleet
#

etc.

unique bough
#

in icewind dale i am playing a paladin whos faith is with tempus god of war, one of our players is a reborn. i think our dm prob wants us to battle or something like that as they're tech undead (they're wording). What would tempus think of the undead, i read a bit into him (personal favourite god) but haven't found anything relating to undead

inland sleet
#

usually neutral aligned gods is indifferent to undead.
Undead is created by negative energy, which is against the positive energy side, therefore good aligned do not like undead

#

Tempus is neutral, there they are "eh" about it

unique bough
#

i don't want to pvp nor does the reborn player (i think)

#

so this is good news

inland sleet
#

if you are concerned by that its probably a good idea to voice it with the DM. So you are all on the same side, who knows, maybe its not your DM's intention for pvp at all

jagged apex
#

he'd honestly be more concerned in someone who claims ot serve him backing away or being hesistant to fight

unique bough
#

hes not backing away per say hes just wary of him (the player hasn't done anything yet

jagged apex
#

his wiki page also describes his personality, complete with citation, if looking for more neuance or detail beyond his rather straight forward dogma

#

from what i am aware, though not sure from where it is off the top of my head, in dnd war by definition requires a peaceful resolution to at least be an option, no matter how unlikely, else it is just slaughter and mindless violence

#

so seems stuff like attacking civilians and not strictly combatants involved in the conflict between the 2 waring sides, would break these rules

#

so for example Tempus would not be pleased, likely, with someone like Japan's Obu Nobunaga, despite him doing so mainly cuz he had no way of knowing do to the situation of the conflicts he found himself in, such hesitation and time used to try to figure out of they were a soldier or a civilian could have gotten him killed

jagged apex
unique bough
#

mhm i wasn't think of tempus exactly just the religon itself

#

and their beliefs

jagged apex
#

so the only potential issue, if wanting to keep your paladin from loosing their powers, is your oath and how it's tenets relate to the situation

unique bough
#

its an oath of vengeance hes the scion of agandor

jagged apex
#

agandor is not a being in dnd, far as i could find seems to be from lord of the rings specifically

unique bough
#

(basically the heir of neverwinter

unique bough
jagged apex
#

the tenents of the oath of vengeance read thusly

#

"The tenets of the Oath of Vengeance vary by paladin, but all the tenets revolve around punishing wrongdoers by any means necessary. Paladins who uphold these tenets are willing to sacrifice even their own righteousness to mete out justice upon those who do evil, so the paladins are often neutral or lawful neutral in alignment. The core principles of the tenets are brutally simple.

Fight the Greater Evil. Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil, I choose the greater evil.

No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.

By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can’t get in the way of exterminating my foes.

Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds."

unique bough
#

hes the heir of the neverwinter if dagult the lore of neverwinter knows hes alive

#

he'll send assassins to kill him

jagged apex
#

so basically if anything your character, if dedicated to their oath as fully as possible, should be expected to strike that undead down should it become a threat, so long as for the time being they can at least prove a useful ally

unique bough
#

mhm

#

my thought exactly

jagged apex
unique bough
#

oh is it lol

jagged apex
#

he is also a war god, but also one of order

unique bough
#

i see thank you

jagged apex
unique bough
#

i'll stick to tempus i think my dm won't mind

#

nor realy known

#

plus its kinda simuliar

jagged apex
#

eh, is not really a big deal anyways as paladins in 5e don't need a god, their power is tied to their oaths and their dedication to and believe in what they stand for

#

the swearing of their oaths formally are basically a formality at least in most cases

jagged apex
obtuse pulsar
#

OK so say I have a feylost cleric, she was kidnapped by the fey around 6~ months old.
Do you think an archfey would be able to give her clerical powers like they would a warlock?

iron saffron
#

Which setting?

obtuse pulsar
#

Since fey creatures don't usually worship gods I'm trying to like. Make a workaround ?

iron saffron
#

Ask your DM if they allow archfeys to grant divine powers.

#

Their campaign setting.

jagged apex
#

but yeah would be more so a question for your dm, though some archfey are gods or otherwise known to be worshiped as though they were gods

jagged apex
#

i wonder, since we have been getting more exceptions to what has been the norm for ceremorphs compared to editions past, such as the gnome ceremorph and ettin ceremorphs, i wonder if a goblin could survive the process and if they would become for lack of a better term a "goblin ceremorph" or if they would just wind up being a really short mindflayer if anything other than dying cuz the brain was too small and the tadpole at it too quick

serene crater
#

mentioning that, I wonder if the tadpoles are evolving to become more adaptable

jagged apex
#

would make sense given how we know they can be modified via methods like those involved in BG3, will not go into detail to avoid spoilers

#

but we know in the ettin's case is basically them taking advantage of the two for one special their biology offers, and gnomes do to their weirdly magical biology that kind of even in failure makes the partial success of the gnome squidling

jagged apex
#

heck the side effect of the likes of Astarion, with the kind he was infected with opens up possibilities for alliances between illithid and other creatures that previously would, to my knowledge seem extremally unlikely

#

cuz if it can do that to a spawn, i imagine it could have a similar effect on a true vampire

glacial granite
#

How do dragons feel about dragonborn?

#

Do they treat them any differently than other races?

jagged apex
#

about the same as any other humanoids in most settings

#

on the other side of things, most dragonborn, at least in the forgotten realms, hate dragons do to their long history of enslavement at their hands/claws on Abeir, the sister planet and former other half of the world of Toril

#

back then being known as Abeir-Toril when they were one

jagged apex
#

after all dragonborn's connection to dragon kind is very distant and weak compared to other draconic beings that could at least be considered half-dragons, lesser dragons, or true dragons

#

honestly we got more info on how dragonborn, even in the setting agnostic sense, feel in relation to dragons than we do the other way around, am going threw fizban's right not to see if there might be something i forgot or overlooked

glacial granite
#

Alright thanks

#

I have fizbans Ill take a look too

jagged apex
#

yeah far as i can tell no indication that, outside of a specific individuals' personality, they treat them any different than any other humanoid race

#

is there anything specific you were hoping for or had in mind?

serene crater
jagged apex
#

well the upcoming one does have them as a major contributing monster to the plot from what promo material says

serene crater
#

also from what I've seen from reviews thats a fair assumption

jagged apex
#

as they mentioned in a video they put out, it involves a part of one of their gods basically saying "screw rebuilding the old empire" let's make a new one

#

and for some reason this entity wants this new illithid empire to rule toril specifically, at least for the time being

#

so at least seems to be starting at building a strong foothold before trying to expand across the planes or the multiverse

serene crater
#

this all does remind me of the theory in Mordenkainens tome of foes had which was did the githyanki truly destroy the empire or was it all planned

north vault
#

Something I never understood about FR lore : Why does Evermeet have kings and queens? When you look at elven history, elves more often seemed to have "coronals", apparently a title kind of similar but with no heredity. What changed in Evermeet that elves would go from that to classical royalty?

orchid ocean
#

I need a little help
Where can I find more information on

Dwiergus

The wiki entry only has 2 paragraphs on him and he's supposed to be a demon lord, is he dead?

north vault
#

Otherwise in dragon magazine

#

I think we can safely say that it's such a minor character that it's been forgotten. What do you need him for?

orchid ocean
#

Nothing really I'm just reading on demon lords in my spare time.

north vault
#

Apparently it's a very neutral demon lord, has been the tutor of Baphomet and has access to magic that can shape and reshape other demons. Feels like his domain, the fleshforge, is neutral grounds for demon lords.

#

Gives me the feeling of an elder sage.

orchid ocean
#

And he's one of the original obyrith

north vault
#

Yes.

#

I think we can safely say that this is the limit of info about that one.

orchid ocean
#

Strange.
He could have been killed given the tanari hate the obyrith more than each other?

north vault
#

You mean Tanari?

orchid ocean
#

Yes
I can't spell, and I'm on my phone

north vault
#

Nah, feels like he's alive. He was Baphomet's tutor. And he has knowledge and power that every other demon would covet

#

Moreover, his title "The Chrysalis Prince" tells me he may have the ability to be reborn and transform.

orchid ocean
#

True, maybe it's just the past tense in the writing

And don't the scibriex have that ability too? Their obyrith as well

north vault
#

Oh, yeah, that's just wiki format. Everything is written in the past tense, it's perfectly normal

orchid ocean
#

Ah fooled again I am

north vault
#

Yes but it feels like Dwiergus may be a greater master of this art than they are.

orchid ocean
#

True if your that old that you've trained one of the newest generations and he's terrifying on his own let alone what he's sculpted, what would the masters work be like?

north vault
#

I would give him three forms. A silkworm form, in which he is durable, very defensive but not very aggressive, with the ability to spin silk cocoons in which creatures are transformed, made greater. A chrysalis form in which he loses all offensive abilities to be excessively durable. And then a... Butterfly-like form. Something I would try to describe as being very beautiful. In that form, he has less HP but his speed, movement and offensive abilities are great.

#

That's how I would stat him anyways.

#

And if he dies in that last form, he spits out an egg that contains his soul, from which he emerges in his silkworm form.

orchid ocean
#

Very interesting

north vault
#

If he was the tutor of Baphomet, perhaps we can take one of Baphomet's abilities, consider that he's the one who taught it to him, and give him a better version of that ability.

#

Feels like Dwiergus is more of a spellcaster, as far as demon lords go

orchid ocean
#

Just an ever evading and adapting creature that's next to impossible to kill

Makes me wonder what his cult would do in the material relm

#

They would probably try to do something similar to other creatures, adjusting and manipulating them like you would a flesh golem

north vault
#

Doesn't feel like one of the demon lords who would even have a cult, to be honest.

orchid ocean
north vault
#

Perhaps isolated cultists. The occasional alchemist asking the demon lord for his knowledge.

#

Considering he tutored Baphomet, he may legitimately enjoy teaching.

orchid ocean
#

Maybe.

north vault
#

Perhaps that is why his realm is something of a neutral ground, he has no interest in power. He likes experimenting and teaching.

#

So he is not a threat to the others, and he is a dangerous one to antagonize

#

I would think, considering his whole shtick is evolution, that he may dislike Orcus due to his undead thing leading to stagnation.

orchid ocean
#

The kind of teacher that's very harsh but if you follow his lessons and learn from him you'll extremely fromitalbe

orchid ocean
north vault
#

Eh, Demogorgon is too mad and unstable for a real alliance.

#

An association of conveniance, sure

orchid ocean
#

Yeah, now I have a lot more reading to do and a lot more notes to take especially with how you've opened my eyes to thinking like that

north vault
#

I spend a lot of time telling my fellow DMs that their evil creatures, even Demons, are allowed to have different personalities and even a few positive traits

#

You make a memorable bad guy through the positive qualities of the bad guy

jagged apex
#

The Chrysalis Prince is likely one with very little info known cuz of their limited amount of appearances, so likely is that obscurity that makes them seem dead, but honestly anything could have happened between now and then and if anything is probably ambiguous

#

and a lot of demon lord that are known likely suffer this fate too

#

save for of course the major ones that have proven to be favorites by either fans or writers, and thus have made multilple appearances across editions

orchid ocean
jagged apex
north vault
#

True. Though Dagon plays Demogorgon like a fiddle

jagged apex
#

and the other known ally is "Ilsidahur, called the Howling King, was a demon lord associated with barlgura. He ruled The Guttering Grove. In some accounts he was said to often meddle in events on the Material Plane, to have a taste for demihuman flesh, and to prefer items made of bronze. His physical form was an 8‑foot-tall (2.4‑meter) ape with bronze, ram-like horns and a hairless pink tail."

jagged apex
#

like far as either head is concerned, he seems to be a true ally

#

at least to my knowledge

#

speaking of powerful evil beings in dnd, one of my favorite recent sort of obssessions in the 5e version of bhaal's aspects, is cool to see him stated out in 5e as a brutal creature to face off against, even if the book he comes from so far is seemingly only available on dms guild despite being by wizards of the coast, and that both aspects seem to share the artwork which honestly out of the two seems to depict the ravanger aspect in action https://i0.wp.com/www.scrollforinitiative.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Bhaal.jpg?resize=330%2C426&ssl=1

#

i just find that he looks pretty badass and cool

#

interestingly said aspect is classified as a beast and the slayer being a humanoid in terms of 5e creature type classifications

jagged apex
main fog
#

Question about elves and maturity and what not...

So obviously elves live a long time...roughly 750 years in forgotten realms. And I know they reach adulthood at around 110

So does that mean at age 60 they're still like pint sized and about as physically mature as a 10 year old or is it more akin to they physically grow at the same rate as humans and just aren't seen culturaly as an adult until 110?

iron saffron
#

They become adults (culturally) at 100, which they choose an adult name and forget their past lives (elves reincarnate).

#

They age at the same rate as humans physically so they're physically adults around 18 or so.

jagged apex
# main fog Question about elves and maturity and what not... So obviously elves live a lon...

"Elves were universally long-lived, achieving what they consider adulthood at 110 years of age and living for up to 700 and more years thereafter. However, wood and wild elves matured at roughly the same rate as humans, but did not display many signs of ageing past adulthood, with the most obvious changes being a change in hair color, alternatively graying or darkening. Most of these elves remained healthy and full of life up until their death, which was usually well over two centuries."

#

basically in terms of biology, they would be the same size roughly as a human of roughfly similar age

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

basically by the age of 300 they have had their fill of adventure and mellowed out into the more typical hardasses some would describe elves as being known for

iron saffron
#

They choose their adult name around 100 - 110 years old, at that point they lose memories of their past lives.

jagged apex
#

yep

iron saffron
#

Even humans may be physically mature by 18 to 20 but mentally not so...

jagged apex
#

what i mean is most elves that are pure bloods that are adventurers are under that 300 years of age because they are just so full of a desire for thrills, adventure, and otherwise pleasure for those to fill up their memories that they revel in during their trance, as most elves unless they follow the worship and faith of a dream god of some sort, such as Sehanine Moonbow, as such gods use that as their medium of choice to communicate with their priests

#

like the chaotic nature of dreaming via traditional sleep to most elves, least from what i am aware, is rather terrifying to them

magic jackal
#

I feel like the mental age is a misconception because that leads people to assume elves at 50 are mentally the equivalent of twelve year old humans.

#

That's not really the case.

jagged apex
#

well their standards for maturity, as with the age thing are clearly different from those of shorter lived races, that likely is a factor

magic jackal
#

Yes, the cultural standards differ.

#

A better analogy would be like if humans didn't consider other humans adults until they'd hit like 30.

#

Or until they had achieved some other milestone, based on experience.

jagged apex
#

or in our own world, depending on who you talk to, at least reach the legal drinking age 😛

magic jackal
#

There's not really an allegory for what elves go through with regards to losing their memories of Arvandor and past lives.

jagged apex
#

fun fact, they don't measure time in years

iron saffron
#

The problem is that we (the players) are thinking of elves as 1:1 as humans. They're very different physically, mentally, and culturally. They're aliens.

magic jackal
#

But the point is every time this comes up I want to put emphasis on disabusing folks of the notion that <100 y/o elves act like human children.

jagged apex
#

at least according to a lore video put out by Mr.Rhexx as part of a series of videos covering lore in dnd regarding elves that is not really mentioned in 5e, so take with a grain of salt, i forget what he said they used, i think it had something to do with either moons or winters

iron saffron
#

Mr. Rhexx...

magic jackal
magic jackal
jagged apex
#

yeah elves are fundamentally different do to their fey ancestory, even if not using the forgotten realms where the first elves were literally formed from drops of their god's blood, making them basically angels of sorts

magic jackal
#

He's an entertainer first and a lore historian a very distant second.

iron saffron
#

AJ Pickett did a better job citing his sources with his D&D lore videos.

jagged apex
#

can't find anything on how they keep track of age on the wiki, cited or otherwise, so sadly only refference point i have is the earlier mentioned video and don't know where one would look to verify or debunk the information

#

though now that i think about it, i think at least what he claimed they used was winters, not moons

magic jackal
#

But yeah basically to boil it down there's a lot that goes into the elven definition of adulthood that differs from our human definition.

Elves are aliens, their culture identifies adulthood by worldly experience and loss of their memories of Arvandor (Elf Heaven) and past lives (Elven Souls perpetually reincarnate as Elves outside of the normal Soul stream). Both of those qualifications happen around 100 years-110 years old.

Mentally and Physically an Elf matures at roughly the same rate as Humans (with obvious differences because there are very different cultures)

(pls no more "<100 elves are super immature children" and claiming it's lore accurate, this is a personal request)

#

You can research more for yourself on the FR wiki, it's pretty good about that stuff for the Forgotten Realms setting.

#

It cites sources as well, so that's decent

jagged apex
#

though honestly, elves are not as alien as the gith

magic jackal
#

And I think 5e also relates this same basic concept in the Race Description.

jagged apex
#

they are just are alien cuz well, fey are weird and or magical

magic jackal
#

depends on which gith tbh

jagged apex
#

my guess is the githyanki are the more commonly encountered, given their raiding and likely why they are basically more or less the only ones represented fully in BG3

#

poor githzerai are referenced or eluded to at best, is one of my few negatives i have with BG3 as a dnd fan

iron saffron
#

Githzerai hang out in Limbo so not many people go there compared to the Astral Plane.

jagged apex
#

plus longer commute one could say, since the astral is between the planes, though sort of mute if using some version of planeshift, but the raiding and conquest of the githyanki definitely would suggest, at least logically far as i can tell, more frequent visits to the prime

#

definitely longer commute in the modern continuity if for what ever reason they deside to travel via spelljamming

#

though i doubt they would since from what i am aware they usually just planeshift with one of their adamantine fortresses

cedar badger
#

Is there any netherese city left except Thulthantar after the fall of it in 1490s?

#

Or are they all ruins

iron saffron
#

The Netherese returned back from the Shadowfell "recently"

cedar badger
#

Flying city of Thulthantar returned from Shadowfell, and then crashed down to the city of Myth Drannor by Elminster, am I not right?

jagged apex
cedar badger
#

so, I am asking, is there any other flying city of Netheril left?

cedar badger
jagged apex
#

i recall hearing somewhere in some lore video that one was basically half flooded do to being in a lake or some similar body of water

cedar badger
#

I was wondering if Netheril were somehow still alive, or completely shattered

#

but it looks like Netheril is completely shattered, the only remaining was Thulthantar, which is recently destroyed. Alright then, thanks

jagged apex
#

with gods in modern toril having to take a more hands off approach, to avoid loosing power like the dead three who ignored this still set on their own schemes and thus are now drastically reduced in power to quasi-deities, could have the party be charged with clearing the plague on behalf of Talona, especially if a cleric or otherwise faithful of hers is among the party or their allies

rare rune
#

Is theros and ravnica lore allowed to be talked about in this channel?

iron saffron
#

They're WotC published D&D settings so sure why?

rare rune
#

I wasn't sure. Because it was a mtg setting first then made into a dnd setting via the books.

iron saffron
#

I don't play MtG so I have no interested in those settings. I can't you out on any of their lore. I'm sure others here are more knowledgeable with them.

rare rune
#

And the whole CR thing that was talked about from a while ago was lingering in my mind.

iron saffron
#

This wouldn't be the proper channel to talk about CR though... (I'm assuming you're referring to Challenge Rating and not Critical Role).

rare rune
#

Someone brought up some of the lore of the critical role lore and a mod shut it down.

iron saffron
#

Ah right.

rare rune
#

So that's why I'm asking if the theros and ravnica is okay to talk about in here since it's a book with dnd 5th edition.

iron saffron
#

I think the issue is that CR is a third party (despite WotC publishing CR's Explorer's Guide to Wildemont) whereas Theros and Ravinica are both WotC properties.

rare rune
#

Right

jagged apex
#

and said adventure was, and to my knowledge is still free

#

if memory serves, via wizard of the coast's website

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
#

as partnered content has it's own dedicated section, if is there and not listed under partnered content, is safe to assume is first party probably

iron saffron
white ravine
#

Here's a tough one. How does time travel work?

jagged apex
#

it varies from depiction to depiction, best example i know of for dnd specifically is between the obelisk in icewind dale and the one that vecna stole for his own use

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

honestly outside of those 2 instances, despite chronomancy historically being a thing in dnd, the amount of times time travel is shown in notable moments of the lore is to my knowledge very few, to the point, again apart from the two examples i am not ware of any others

white ravine
jagged apex
#

so that might help at least to some degree

white ravine
#

Maybe. Doing a campaign that might involve time travel so im seeing precedents set

jagged apex
#

otherwise, far as i know, with the way editions are described more recently and the nature of the game, i believe dnd's time and by extention time travel potentially opperates off multiverse theory, otherwise is up to the dm to handle any specifics

white ravine
#

Thats what ive gathered so far, aye.

iron saffron
#

The Dragonlance's War of the Twins trilogy novels has Raistlin, Caramon, and Tasslehoff going back in time before the Cataclysm with the Device of Time Journeying.

jagged apex
#

though monsters from older editions like the Phane, from how AJ Pickket covered the lore of the creature and ideas for using it in play, suggest a sort of more one timeline approach https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Phane

#

honestly seems it either comes down to setting or dm

white ravine
#

I did watch that, and it got me thinking about it. Not as cut and dry of a stance as I wouldve hoped though

#

Nonetheless good enough...

proper meadow
#

Will my character go to hell if he makes a pact with a feind patron (he is neutral good)

white ravine
proper meadow
#

thats true thank you

jagged apex
#

though even then depends if the fiend is a devil or not

proper meadow
#

But if the pact doesnt involve selling my soul, im good?

unkempt merlin
#

Its entirely up to the lore of the setting you are playing in + what the pact itself entails

jagged apex
#

eh, is iffy

unkempt merlin
#

Nobody here can answer the question for you

jagged apex
#

certain actions are considered evil regardless of context or intent

#

easiest example is one that makes lichdom so evil, the destruction of a soul

proper meadow
#

true

#

I am just trying to find a way of having a good aligned friendly warlock who can also cast fireball

jagged apex
#

you could you know, the genie warlock gets it too, if going with an effriti patron ie a fire genie

magic jackal
proper meadow
proper meadow
magic jackal
#

All good, just pointing you in a more helpful direction is all

#

Lore wise Warlocks are not limited to the alignment of their Patron.

jagged apex
#

yeah but not involved with hell at least directly, so logically drastically lower chances, and good fire elementals exist and intelligent beings can defy their normal nature so a none evil fire genie while rare, is technically possible

proper meadow
#

thank you for the help!

magic jackal
#

Good Fiend Warlocks are a tale as old as time tbh.

jagged apex
#

plus what tea said

magic jackal
#

Someone who makes a misguided deal for an altruistic reason

jagged apex
#

oh yeah, isn't wyll one? from baldur's gate 3?

magic jackal
jagged apex
#

like i recall for sure his patron is a devil

#

well their character sheets are on dnd beyond to be downloaded so doubt is a spoiler

magic jackal
#

Eh, that's still opt-in.

#

I'd count it but I don't really know as I've not played it so I don't know how involved it is.

white ravine
jagged apex
#

always could use a yugoloth as the patron, they are neutral evil but their loyalty is more or less to material wealth

#

so at least by default cosmology in 5e in settings like the forgotten realms they are on average the least likely fiend to want your soul on the table for terms of making a pact

proper meadow
#

Ok thank you very much for your help!

jagged apex
#

out of the different kinds i find Yagnoloths neat cuz they look rather silly but are somewhat powerful depsite their appearance

proper meadow
#

thanks so much

jagged apex
#

np

arctic lion
#

This is my best place to ask, I need some help with placing a homebrew empire on the official map

magic jackal
eager bay
#

I want my character to have a sailor origin in Menagerie Coast in Wildemount , but I'm fully unaware what their naming conventions are there , or what culture irl they take from

#

so I can like name her and maybe have some inspiration for some character traits

iron saffron
#

I don't know much abou the Critical Role campaign setting (although I watched all of Campaign 2). You may have better luck with the Critical Role Discord server?

forest rock
eager bay
#

I was even more unaware than I realised

#

I thought Kord was like a default god

iron saffron
#

Kord is a prime deity, the CN god of war.

eager bay
#

CN?

iron saffron
#

(However, Critical Role is moving away from using the names of the deities listed in the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount for legal reasons (WotC owns most of the trademarks of the names))

#

Chaotic Neutral.

eager bay
#

ah

#

What would be the equivalent place where sailors would worship him in normal FR then

iron saffron
#

Kord doesn't exist in FR.

eager bay
#

Lol

#

Guess I'll just wing it

#

or just use the CR version

iron saffron
#

If you're playing a Critical Role campaign setting I would ask someone on the Critical Role Discord server or check the CR wiki (as Enoki mentioned).

#

Or work with your DM.

eager bay
#

We're playing a FR I think

#

but idt the DM would care if I just put that info in my character

iron saffron
#

Then the Menagerie Coast in Wildemount is not relevant

#

They're two separate and different campaign settings.

eager bay
#

I guess

#

no need to mention the location

#

will just use it for inspiration

iron saffron
#

This is an "Ask your DM" question then.

eager bay
#

thanks

thorny phoenix
#

So when Material Plane consists of infinite worlds, does that mean that Inner Planes are always the same or they change with individual worlds/setting? For example, are the Elemental Planes of Exandria the same place as the Elemental Planes of Forgotten Realms? Is Exandria's Fey Realm the same as the Forgotten Realms' Feywild?

iron saffron
#

Each campaign setting has a different cosmology.

#

Until 5E FR used the World Tree cosmology (briefly using 4E's World Axis cosmology) but now in 5E uses the Great Wheel cosmology.

sharp owl
#

It should be also noted that the world tree, world axis, and great wheel are all just metaphores for understanding the relationship between the various planes in a way that makes sense to those dwelling on the material plane

#

But in relation to your answer, some outer and inner planes are shared, some are not

iron saffron
#

Not all cosmologies have the same Inner/Outer Planes. FR's World Tree had different planes than the Great Wheel.

sharp owl
#

For example, Mordenkainen (who hails from Oearth in the Greyhawk setting) has appeared in Avernus in a capacity directly connected to Toril (the Forgotten Realms)

#

However, some planes have the Nine Hells, but not the same Nine Hells

#

It's kinda like a restuaruant chain; you and your friend might both visit the same Arby's, and your cousin in the next state can also visit an Arby's but it's not the same one you and your friend visit, but it's still an Arby's

#

But your other cousin doesn't have an Arby's anywhere near them, but does have a Wendy's

#

This concept is touched upon in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons; the idea of 'conceptual echoes' through the multiverse. It explains how there can be multiple Whiteplume Mountains for example; some locations hold such power as a concept that they reverberate to other planes and appear there too

#

Maybe the same, maybe different

thorny phoenix
crude blaze
#

Pretty sure that’s kinda the idea of echoes.

#

“You like something that canonically exists in a different world? Just port over to yours.”

eager bay
#

So, talking bout all the cosmology and what not, any people well versed in the [Planescape] lore? I'm wondering, how do people actually enter Sigil? And if its really hard to enter the place, how come its so filled with people of all sorts.

iron saffron
#

Sigil is called the City of Doors. There are countless number of "doors" (aka portals) that connect Sigil to the various planes of the multiverse. These "doors' aren't physical doors so they could be anywhere in the city and the "keys" to open them could be anything from a phoenix feather to a hummingbird's fart.

#

Sigil is in the centre of the multiverse ruled by the Lady of Pain. No deities or deity-like powers are allowed in the city (the closest was Vecna).

Since it's neutral grounds, warring factions from the various planes can be seen rubbing shoulders with each other.

There are no natural resources so any new buildings being erected must have its materials be transported from elsewhere or taken from other buildings.

magic jackal
#

(when you enter Sigil you see a sign on the door that says "No Gods or Kings, only Man.")

#

/j 😂

valid wraith
#

Took her some thirty years to find the way back to her homeworld

iron saffron
#

Something like that. The "key" could be anything and its "door" could be anywhere.

#

Some doors and keys are known and stable.

eager bay
#

So people just kind of end up there? Is there a large precent that are just born and live there?

iron saffron
#

People can traverse through known doors.

valid wraith
#

Yeah, the circumstances can be wildly different, but it can be any random enclosed space, a doorframe, a barrel, a picture frame, an arch, a random hole in the wall

#

as long as you happen to have the right key, which can be equally random

molten osprey
#

or a picture of a door ala Looney Tunes

valid wraith
valid wraith
white ravine
#

Rare, but very possible.

eager bay
iron saffron
#

It's a mix of people from across the multiverse.

Commoners and Tier 1 adventurers aren't going to be exploring the cosmos. If they're in Sigil, it'll be by accident than by intent.

valid wraith
iron saffron
#

Remember there are no natural resources in the city. Everything has to be either imported from other plane or created magically.

valid wraith
#

Some of them don't know anything beyond the city, some settled there on purpose or by accident, some are just passing by

iron saffron
#

The city is like the inside of inflatable inner tube of a tire (or a donut) so when you look up you can see another part of the city above you.

#

There is a day/night cycle but it's not natural but rather the lights of the city itself. It's normally a hazy "twilight" otherwise.

eager bay
#

Alright thanks for the info. Was thinking of incorporating a bit of Planescape into my current game with a character offering passage to Sigil as a reward, that would be possible right?

white ravine
#

For sure

#

Though as a note:

No portals outside of the doors may be opened to access Sigil

#

You open a foreign portal, it gets slammed shut and you get turned into red putty

eager bay
#

I know the place aint exactly a holiday resort, but lets just say the PC's are in pretty bad situation, and Sigil would definitely be a better place to be

white ravine
#

Sigil has a lot of things to offer PCs regardless of their situation

iron saffron
#

No gods or archfiends can enter Sigil either.

eager bay
white ravine
#

It's a central hub of reality. You have night hags selling larval souls on meat hooks next to a hospital staffed by hollyphants.

iron saffron
#

Marut are the police in Sigil. It takes a lot to get them to go after you...

white ravine
#

The real police is the Lady...and you don't mess with the Lady...

eager bay
valid wraith
white ravine
iron saffron
#

Yes, there are "stable" doors in Sigil.

white ravine
#

You can guiding bolt someone, until the lady of pain comes and renders you a null entity

iron saffron
#

Planescape is one of my favourite 2E campaign settings. After 5E Ravenloft and Spelljammer, I'm not holding my breath on 5E Planescape...

eager bay
iron saffron
#

Wasting > $70

#

Thank God I still have my 2E Ravenloft and Spelljammer boxed sets...

eager bay
#

I suppose there is nothing stopping me from getting some old Planescape books and incorporating that stuff into 5e myself, if the 5e version turns out terrible

molten osprey
#

unless you're Vecna and break out of Ravenloft and carve a path through Sigil and tell the Lady to pound sand

#

😛

iron saffron
#

2E Planescape has a treasure trove of books, especially lore of the multiverse. I would go back to 2E stuff for lore than look at 5E.

valid wraith
iron saffron
#

Frankly I would wait for the reviews to come before buying 5E Planescape.

iron saffron
white ravine
eager bay
#

Not to be THAT guy, but the Lady of Pain is supposedly like the strongest entity we know about right?

magic jackal
#

No

iron saffron
#

She is the mistress of the Sigil and the Outlands so it's her domain to control, not unlike deities and their realms in the Outer Planes.

magic jackal
#

She's not a Deity herself, but she is as strong or more strong than even a Greater Deity, however we know there are entities more powerful than her such as Ao.

white ravine
iron saffron
#

Ao is a known overgod, who has the power to strip deities' divine powers (within Realmspace).

magic jackal
iron saffron
#

AFAIK, the Lady of Pain never had a stat block.

valid wraith
white ravine
iron saffron
magic jackal
#

Lmao, "Hell in a Cell (Literally), Lady of Pain vs Asmodeus! Come one, come all!"

molten osprey
iron saffron
#

Die Vecna Die! was the last 2E module before moving onto 3E, I believe.

eager bay
iron saffron
#

She did that with Vecna already...

valid wraith
#

a quick google trip tells me that she indeed did that, after he managed to sneak past her in the first place

#

he must be a sneaky bastard

eager bay
#

But lady of pain was able to kick him out

valid wraith
#

considering how serious she is about her rules

iron saffron
molten osprey
#

sneak? I remember a path od destruction to the armoury

valid wraith
# iron saffron Yes, in Die Vecna Die!

that title gives me strong 80's vibe, the one from American movies of the time with kids playing DnD in a basement around a table with cool dioramas of dungeons

#

I've a lot of catching up to do

iron saffron
eager bay
#

But yeah, so Lady of Pain is basically Cain from World of Darkness, at least in Sigil, the players should not be picking fights or bothering her

#

Im hoping that my current game could end with the players in Sigil, have a small Sigil adventure, and then go from Sigil into some other adventure in the boundless multiverses.

#

Which brings up my question, how does one travel out of Sigil? Isnt it just as hard as getting there

valid wraith
#

easiest way would probably be finding the right door and the right key

#

makes me wonder if it's possible to fly or fall out of it

#

and if the spire beneath it is really endless, then how would the fall feel like

summer tulip
#

I'm aware of how Hags reproduce, lore-wise. But are the children that hags create are still the race of what the hag ate? I've got a pretty neat idea for a druid who's mom was an unturned hag-born child. Not sure If this is practical given lore constraints though. FR setting in this case.

thorny phoenix
# summer tulip I'm aware of how Hags reproduce, lore-wise. But are the children that hags creat...

Monster Manual says (...)the hag gives birth to a daughter who looks human until her thirteenth birthday, whereupon the child transforms into the spitting image of her hag mother.
Also: A hag might also return the child to its grieving parents, only to watch from the shadows as the child grows up to become a horror.
So I'd say (and this is just my assumption) daughter's species stays the same. Nevertheless, she transforms during her puberty anyway.

mint wave
#

What leads to a celestial falling?

iron saffron
#

Typically being corrupted, such as being in Hell or the Abyss.

mint wave
#

What happens to their behaviour?

iron saffron
#

They become evil.

#

See Zariel.

#

Obviously not all celestials in the Abyss or Hell suddenly becomes a fiend but something triggers them to doubt being good any more.

summer tulip
magic jackal
molten osprey
#

The hag reproduction lore is just a retelling of the classic fairy changeling stories

#

my warlock wound up being a changeling (unbeknownst to her) in my last campaign as part of my DM's story

#

it was a way to justify her fae touched feat and warlock (her patron being her true mother) origin

#

so your boy can still easily be a changeling, just use something other than a hag

mint wave
#

Aren't changelings something else?

magic jackal
#

They're not in the Forgotten Realms.

summer tulip
#

I'm 100% going to be looking into Van Richtens. Appreciate the heads up.

stray vine
#

hags will eat babies, and rebirth them, then after some time a ritual is done with the child to become a hag

stray vine
#

the main difference is gods need worship to stay alive

#

she despises people worshipping her

#

even looking at her can kill people

mint wave
#

How does the city of bral keep relative peace with the mind flayers?

stray vine
#

the mind flayers are punishment

#

theres an illithid embassy

#

people breaking the law hard get sent to them to get their brains eaten

mint wave
#

Fair. The wiki says: "Nevertheless, everyone was polite to everyone in the city of Bral; mind flayers could be seen conversing with elves and dwarves with beholders. This was not because they were friends; rather, the city had a policy of "check your vendettas at the docks"." I don't understand why the mindflayers chat with the elves instead of sucking their brains.

stray vine
#

beholders? im surprised

#

i guess if the government is powerful enough then everyone is motivated to play fair XD

mint wave
#

Not sure fair is the right word.

molten osprey
#

Theoretically, Dis is one of the safest places in the multiverse

mint wave
magic jackal
#

I see it more as a mutual non-aggression pact

#

If anyone breaks it, everyone breaks it, and usually the first person to suffer will be the one who broke it first

#

and also the rock of bral is a hub of free trade, settlement etc., that's very valuable for everyone involved in the spelljammer economy, so nobody wants to break it and be anathema to the free trade city

#

like, it serves a valuable purpose so you don't want to be not allowed in, so you follow the rules to gain access to the valuable services available and you don't break the rules because you don't want to get everyone else to fight you

mint wave
#

What do mind flayers actually want to buy?

magic jackal
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

They're still a sentient mortal humanoid race, they have wants and needs and desires and goals, and the rock of bral being a space trade hub likely has access to most anything people might sell or buy.

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That's like asking what any other faction might want to buy, it depends largely on context.

white ravine
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That, or psionically charged artifacts/far realm tech.

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Id imagine they'd also be interested in kinds of forced mutagens they can test on subjects or themselves

molten osprey
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being a mindflayer, it's pretty hard to go out and buy mundane items, they could easily be there for normal commodities and quality of life items they can't get normally

iron saffron
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It's hard to go grocery shopping as a mind flayer when everyone at the store you consider food...

calm crest
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Mind flayers might also just like having cash handy for bribery. There’s more than one way to enthrall creatures.

tame locust
# mint wave Fair. The wiki says: "Nevertheless, everyone was polite to everyone in the city ...

Sometimes it's easier to do BBEG stuff by playing nice. You can only get so many brains by force, and mind flayers aren't particulary strong. They may be looking for basic tools and equipment that they don't want to make themselves. There may be an underground market for organs. They might be secretly ruling the world, and consider the whole city their thralls. What lore works in your campaign may vary.

cedar badger
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"In 1487 DR, Thultanthar was brought to ground by Elminster Aumar to stop Telamont Tanthul from taking control of The Weave, the source of all magic. The floating city fell upon Myth Drannor, destroying both cities."

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so, this was something that elminster accounted, right?

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or did he accidently perform that action without knowing the fact that Thultanthar would destroy Myth Drannor

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I assume Thultanthar was flying on top of Myth drannor

gusty sigil
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That would seem the case : sacrificing Myth Drannor to stop Telamont Tanthul

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I know there is lore about rogue mind flayers, but what about rogue intellect devourers? (eg a party destroys elder brain and all mind flayers, but miss 1 intellect devourer) Can they survive? ... thinking about a homebrew campaign.

jagged apex
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in 4e though they are very dumb, but in 5e they on average are above average in terms of intelligence, having 12 int on average according to their statblock

jagged apex
# cedar badger so, this was something that elminster accounted, right?

could see if ed greenwood has anything to say on the matter, after all, not only is he creator of the forgotten realms but Elminster is basically his character, i doubt anyone would now his intentions and the like at the time than him, and he is fairly active via the likes of twitter whe people do hit him up with questions, including realms lore

frail moat
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Would Meriadar (the goblinoid deity of patience, co-existence, etc.) still exist in 5e? I can't find reference to him in 4th or 5th, and I know there was some shaking up of the pantheons in 3e->4e and 4e->5e so I'm not sure if it would be lore-abiding to make a cleric who worshipped him in FR today.

jagged apex
jagged apex
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as Meriadar is a more generic monstrous humanoid deity that happens to include some goblinoids among his worshipers, in fact he is noted having an antipathy towards the the bugbear pantheon which are part of the greater goblinoid pantheon these days, antipathy meaning "a deep-seated feeling of dislike; aversion"

frail moat
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Thanks! He doesn't need to be strictly-speaking goblinoid. Mostly I liked the platform and wanted to subscribe to his cleric newsletter, if he survived since 3e 😅

jagged apex
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"Meridar's chief worshippers are mongrelfolk and non-evil humanoids of any type. He seeks to redeem evil humanoids such as orcs and goblinoids, or provide a place of refuge for those of them not drawn toward evil. He particularly prizes bugbear followers, being glad to keep them away from their own chaotic gods. On the plane of Arcadia he is served by a female bugbear who wanders near the realm of Clangeddin, preaching peace to the dwarves there." to quote what is described on the linked site regarding his worshipers

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presumably he prizes bugbear followers as it deprives the bugbear pantheon of power by denying them followers that most racial gods almost always expect to follow

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his latest cited info seems to be "Noonan, David, Eric Cagle, and Aaron Rosenberg. Races of Destiny. Renton, WA: Wizards of the Coast, 2004." and given the mongrel folk, who are his main worshipers, exist in 5e and i am not able to find any records of his death, it is perfectly possible for him to still exist, at least until wizards of the coasts says otherwise in relation to his status in the 5e continuity

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honestly seems the bulk of his info is unknown, so, if wanting to use him in as close to an official sense of possible i'd simply use the info you can find once consolidated and logical thinking to fill in the blanks and if actions in your campaign happen that impact that fate make sure to keep track of it

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honestly, given the ongoing war on the plane they live on between Grummsh and Maglubyet i doubt he is even on any of the goblin gods' radars and being a pacifist, reasonable means he would not be at risk of dying or starving so long as he has enough worshipers that venerate him regularly

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in 5e his domains likely would be Peace and one could argue if any others, Forge and or Order

fallow jungle
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Is there any timeline in terms of the Border Kingdom's history/events? I'm running Modules in AL and events seem random.

jagged apex
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far as i can find no, not really and there are only 2 events noted on the forgotten realms wiki and only one of them even has a year among it's info

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a lot of the places making up that area don't even seem to have wiki pages let alone info, so could be why there is not any sort of history or timeline at least on the forgotten realms wiki

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plus the name of the region is not really formal quote "The region's most well known name, the "Border Kingdoms," was coined by sages in Sembia due to them being viewed as an obstacle to Calimshan's expansion and their ability to remain steadfast in the face of constant turmoil."

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otherwise it is basically just a bunch of kingdoms and what not that are not nessissarily related, much less their histories

jagged apex
fallow jungle
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There was a largescale Thayan invasion that failed and lots of events deal with the aftermath of that.

jagged apex
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i think there is no real connection, again unless you know what storyline it is part of if any

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basically from the sounds of it, you are looking for info that does not actually exist, at least to my knowledge

jagged apex
formal ore
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How do "oathbreaker" paladins have Divine Smite?

iron saffron
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Not really a lore question since it's more of a gameplay mechanic. Ask in #dnd-discussion

jagged apex
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their magic is still divine magic, divine is not strictly good, evil gods are a thing

formal ore
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Okay sorry

fallow jungle
formal ore
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Wouldn't an evil aligned paladin still be non oathbreaker

jagged apex
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as the oathbreaker says himself in bg3 if you accept the path "...these powers can be used for good or for ill"

jagged apex
formal ore
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But is BG3 100% canonical

jagged apex
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as much as any other dnd media

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and larian worked hard making it for the most part very faithful to dnd 5e

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sure there are some house rules here and there, but they definitely did their homework

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and again, divine in dnd is not predeposed towards good

iron saffron
jagged apex
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except it is

iron saffron
magic jackal
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BG3 is canonical to BG3

iron saffron
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BG3 isn't a WotC product. It was licensed to Larian.

jagged apex
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but purely 100% no media fits this build by nature of the game

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and even without the words of the oath breaker, again divine in dnd does not equal good

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divine in dnd can be both good or evil

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oath breakers literally forsake any oath and serve either themselves or some dark god or entity

iron saffron
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Paladins had to be LG in older edtions (1E, 2E, and 3E) but don't have alignment restrictions any more in 5E.

Oathbreaker is a nod to the older editions' anti-paladin and blackguard classes.

magic jackal
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They attempted to basically remake Blackguard with Treachery Paladin, but it never made it past UA

crude blaze
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‘Member when WOTC made a Treachery oath UA that went nowhere?

crude blaze
magic jackal
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Hey jinx 😁

jagged apex
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in short in dnd
divine =/= good
and
evil paladin =/= oathbreaker

crude blaze
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well, Oathbreaker is definitely evil

jagged apex
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both are more nuanced than that, to say either equals one is oversimplification

crude blaze
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It’s essentially a subclass requirement

jagged apex
magic jackal
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conquest is a great example of an evil divine paladin which is not an oathbreaker

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or at least you can very easily make an evil conquest paladin

fallow leaf
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yup, not all evil paladins are oathbreakers but all oathbreakers are evil

jagged apex
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which i mentioned earlier

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and to be fair even just evil in dnd is technically more nuanced, is partially why we still have the alignment system, is just arguably as it should have been to begin with, fluid and representative

fallow leaf
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yeah alignment is just weird

jagged apex
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like neutral evil can easily just mean stuff like selfish or self survival

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but there are also more typically "evil" things included in just that specific combo too

obsidian gate
jagged apex
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honestly is what makes a loxodon paladin rather funny to me, cuz from what i know of their lore they literally can't think of things in terms of grey, things like right and wrong are either black or white for them, there is no middle ground

fallow leaf
obsidian gate
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the naming scheme could use some work i think

jagged apex
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that and their default problem solving is from what i am aware, smash the problem and if that does not work, try again just to be sure, then try other solutions

crude blaze
fallow leaf
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doesnt really apply

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that wasnt saying "oathbreakers can be not evil" it was saying "not all paladins who are evil are oathbreakers specifically"

jagged apex
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basically devils potentially show how you can be evil, but not nessissarily a malevolent kind of evil

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ties into one of asmodeus's potential origins, and is the one most in universe, last i checked, believe to be true

crude blaze
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I think you see devils very differently from how I and others see them

iron saffron
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Devils are the mobster lawyers of the multiverse.

crude blaze
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Yeah, there’s still malevolence to them.

jagged apex
crude blaze
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Even if, between them and demons, they’re the most “reasonable”.

iron saffron
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They want mortals' souls and will make the fine print as small as possible.

jagged apex
# crude blaze Yeah, there’s still malevolence to them.

not always, we have precious few cases where some have managed to actually change their nature and thus alignment over time, though this drastically more difficult for them to do than a mortal do to the nature of extra planar life

crude blaze
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Yeah, there’s exception to every rule, sure

iron saffron
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There are "risen" fiends (if celestials can fall from grace, fiends can rise to grace...) but they don't last long in the Lower Planes because their fellow fiends tend to kill them for being "weak."

jagged apex
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one of my favorites, that to my knowledge the ending of which is still ambiguous canonically as the adventure offers multiple endings, is Zariel and her fall from grace

iron saffron
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Fall-From-Grace is a LN succubus in Sigil.
Eludecia is a LG succubus paladin (she appeared in Dragon Magazine's "Fight Club" article series).

jagged apex
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if any malice was in her heart, likely is for the demons and fiends of the blood war which her desire to end the war and destroy them lead to her fall from grace as she was not content with simply observing as she was ordered

crude blaze
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Her malice extended beyond those after her fall though

jagged apex
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but again, evil and malice are not mutually exclusive to one another or intertwined in dnd, which was my point

jagged apex
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pretty sure if she had grown so much more malicious as you claim, she would not be redeemable as a possibility in the events of decent into avernus

warm zealot
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is there a way to know how official modules end in lore? like for descent into avernus, now with BG3 I know that "a group of adventurers saved Elturel" and in the book, there was a way of redeeming Zariel but its clear she wasn't redeemed in the "main lore". so is there like a place where they post "official endings" or what happened exactly in the lore since some stuff gets revisited

crude blaze
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WOTC’s statement is essentially that there’s no official canon ending

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Every campaign is its own canon.

jagged apex
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cuz unless i am misremembering, decent into avernus was a sort of prologue, ie set before the events of BG3

jagged apex
crude blaze
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Sure. I’m just sharing what they said.

iron saffron
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WotC seems to have moved away from establishing "fixed" lore as much as possible, emphasizing lore is what you make of it at your table. If Zariel is redeemed at one table and remained fallen at the other, it's canonical lore at those respective tables regardless of what WotC or Larians says.

crude blaze
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Yep. No one campaign is any more or less “canon” than another.

warm zealot
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But then what happens with future adventures? Are there any adventures that reference uncertain outcomes? Like is there anything that references Zariel after DiA?

crude blaze
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Larian just decided to pursue one of the DiA endings to use as a backdrop for BG3

crude blaze
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If there’s a future adventure that references Zariel being redeemed, that doesn’t mean it has to be the case at every table.

iron saffron
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WotC seems to avoid having adventures series that are sequels like in previous editions. Each 5E campaign book are self contained (although some do mention other books, probably more for marketing than actually gameplay).

crude blaze
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Even the books they market as a series are barely connected (the Waterdeep modules)

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There’s very little connecting the story between the two

iron saffron
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DotMM doesn't have much of a story...

jagged apex
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seems canonically her history in published material is she did not get redeemed

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to quote the cited history on her forgotten realms wiki page "On a Founders' Day in the late 15th century, Zariel was summoned onto Waterdeep's Field of Triumph. She, in turn, summoned a host of devils and bid them spread chaos in the city. Waterdeep briefly became a battlefield in the Blood War, as demons were attracted by the sudden presence of devils. Zariel hoped that strong adventurers would appear to defeat the fiendish invasion, and that she could lure or blackmail them into her service. A group of adventurers, commanded by Blackstaff Vajra Safahr to restore order to the city, was able to defeat Zariel and banish her back to the Nine Hells." - "Codename Entertainment (September 2017). Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms. Codename Entertainment."

iron saffron
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Well, we'll see if WotC publishes something that reveals who the archdevil of Avernus is post-DiA.

crude blaze
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“Canonically” her 5E history is whatever any one table designates it to be

white ravine
jagged apex
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so until wizards themselves put something out with her involved in a notable way rather than eluded to or name dropped, is the best we have to go on

iron saffron
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Idle Champions is a licensed game and not developed by WotC directly though.

jagged apex
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stuff not in sourcebooks or adventures can be treated basically as soft canon, ie until we get something official that contradicts it, you can treat the lore as valid, just to at least fill in the gaps of the published timeline/continuity

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which incase it has to be said is what i ment by canonical, the published continuity that wizards of the coast themselves is using for the narrative of the 5e continuity until they potentially soft reboot should they loose the license or start a new edition

crude blaze
jagged apex
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we can only really come to accurate conclusions on specific continuities by the likes of wizards, certain editions, or the creators of those settings, depending on the case

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like wizards of the coast and keith baker have different views on the continuity for the eberron setting

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at least in regards to things like it's cosmology

iron saffron
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I personally put more weight on lore/continuity from the creator of the campaign setting then some contract writer/editor at WotC (especially in 5E).

jagged apex
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same, at least with the eberron setting, to me since he created the setting, even if it was for wizards, his word carries more weight as he basically is the one that made the world and it's history in the first place, though i'd imagine with the like of ed greenwood he gets a lot more say in the legal side even since the work with him and use his setting a lot more often than they do with eberron, but even a few times ed has in his youtube videos on various topics in the realms explicitly stated the continuity of a matter or matters for his own realms lore, the broader stuff where he does not specify this is likely just stuff that wizards of the coast has not bothered to keep track of much less publish in their versions they put in sourcebooks and adventures and the like

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though if i get some info from ed on the realms that disagrees or contradicts what wizards' version says, i more than likely am gunna use ed's if i ever do run my own forgotten realms games, still a bit too nervous to have done anything more than a oneshot in regards to dming

runic totem
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Asmodeus doesn't allow portals to the lower layers, right?

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Why does he allow portals in avernus

white ravine
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The way that hell is laid out, anyone who wants to enter hell must go through each one sequentially

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No going from avernus to malbolge, gotta go one by one.

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Except for a few select other means

iron saffron
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Very few non-devils reach Nessus.

white ravine
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Mostly because you have to swim down through a giant ocean to get to Nessus without using portals

runic totem
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But why doesn't he just not let them in at all

white ravine
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Generally, to keep any non-devils out

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Its very hard for a mortal to make their way down to anywhere in the deeper hells without infernal assistance

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And given how Asmodeus keeps his more valuable stuff deeper and deeper in the hells, he'd want anyone who isn't on his side far from those things

iron saffron
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Hell is very hostile to mortals. You can say it's hell...

white ravine
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Including himself. There's a reason why he sits at the bottom.

runic totem
white ravine
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If he said no to avernus portals, the blood war would spill out everywhere except the nine hells, and then devils would lose their claim over souls since the blood war is the primary reason why devils are allowed to take them.

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It's in their best interests that the blood war stays in the lower planes

iron saffron
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For everyone's sake...

white ravine
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Mainly the devils, honestly. No sense letting the demons escape and wreak havoc if they want the world to conquer themselves...

mint wave
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What do fallen angels do?

white ravine
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Define...

'Do'

mint wave
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As in what actions do they perform? Is there another meaning?

white ravine
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Perform as in to fall, or what they do after they've fallen?