#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

halcyon laurel
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Was he told to start killing her worshippers?

cyan rose
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who is this man that is so annoying to tiamat she asked Asmodeus permission to leave work early to mess with you

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there's something we don't know here

mystic merlin
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Worship does not always equate to deific power

cyan rose
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ex lover is my guess

mystic merlin
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no, she hasn’t come to visit me yet anyway

halcyon laurel
cyan rose
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m..meek? xD

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slowly tiptoes out of chat

mystic merlin
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Listen, having a storied life means sometimes those stories sound like slice of life. And sometimes like parody.

cyan rose
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im not judging

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i AM regretting visualizing

halcyon laurel
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ok I'm now tired of D&D lore because it was clearly made by dozens of different creators with dozens of different motives

zenith dust
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Check out eberron, it is almost entirely driven by one person and their team

ebon holly
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Eberron based setting

iron saffron
vagrant inlet
# halcyon laurel ok I'm now tired of D&D lore because it was clearly made by dozens of different ...

All I understood after reading hundreds of books on dnd is that all lore is a recommendation and a collection of ideas. You are given story stones and you yourself have to build a story from them and look for the motivations of the characters. Don't expect to find a good story here that will explain everything. Just steal ideas for your games, choose what is interesting and ignore what seems out of place

iron saffron
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D&D did the DC Comics route and did soft reboots a couple times inbetween editions, mostly to explain why the magic, gods, and classes worked differently in the new editions

obsidian gate
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yeah its basically an apocalypse every few years

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a la crisis on infinite worlds

fast hinge
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Is there any outer plane in which the soul of a neutral good character could sign for a challenge or deal in order to be brought back? I assume some devils in the negative planes fit the criteria, but is there anything on the positive side? I'm sorry if the question is stupid or clearly misinformed

vagrant inlet
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gods can revive creatures at will

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so u can take any good god

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at well ask him for it

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:P

iron saffron
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Well, that character should be a follower of a god. When the souls of the followers of that god go to their divine domain in the respective plane. For example, Odin (CG) would have a domain (Valhalla) in the plane of Ysgard.

Devils reside in Hell, not the Negative Plane.

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So when you cast a raise dead or resurrection spell, you're asking the soul if they want to leave the afterlife with their deity and return to their mortal body. Sometimes they say no.

obsidian gate
fast hinge
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Alrighty, thanks for the replies!

west bear
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I'm not sure but there might be titan that can revive people. There's Girzon who have dominion over death and can just kill creatures like that so maybe there's one who can bring creatures to life

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Or greater titans who are very close to gods

warm temple
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Could an astral elf be over 3000 years old in a campaign? I am currently debating on this. Would love other viewpoints

daring vessel
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yes

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the book states that over 750 is permittable and 3000 fits under that

iron saffron
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Well, if they live in the Astral Plane/Sea then they don't age.

warm temple
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yes and ive been trying to explain that. the counter arguement is that if they leave hte astral plane they immediately age and die... i said they were wrong.... astral elves and teh gith have to leave in order to reproduce

iron saffron
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I recall that the Githyanki, who normally have bases in the Astral Plane/Sea, would go to the Material plane to raise their young because otherwise they wouldn't age.

analog oxide
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Ya and in 2e at least some of the bodies/husks of dead gods in the astral have their own areas or pocket of other effects thst supercede the astral.. including gravity, extreme aging (in both directions), temperature extremes etc

warm temple
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and some material planes move faster and slower than others as well

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i think there are 4 different types of how time moves

mystic merlin
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The value of lore is in having a bunch of ideas to play with not in “getting it right”

analog oxide
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Choosing what u like to speed up your campaign prep time and dump what u don't need

daring vessel
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dm has final say though and if it doesn't work in the setting it doesn't work in the setting

warm temple
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Yes but you can't approve of my character and backstory and then not agree with it anymore...

daring vessel
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agreed

warm temple
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It was in my backstory and as a dm you should read the backstory

daring vessel
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has this been said to the dm in question?

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and in their defense if the backstory was long I'd excuse missing that

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it should be a conversation rather than a confrontation though

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recognize you don't have final say but point out it's a part of a core component of your character you'd rather not lose

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have you two discussed and brainstormed workarounds with the given restriction

white ravine
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Ideally I imagine they have gith normally stationed at pseudo-daycares for the astral traveling parents to drop them off at without risking their existence

warm temple
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same with astral elves... lol

white ravine
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Correct, but if the parent starts leaping years of development in minutes, its not exactly safe for them to step outside of the astral

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Keeping some gith out in the material for a nursery would let the astral parents remain there while still letting the kids develop

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Just gotta wait 18 years to pick up your doordash kid from daycare

warm temple
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no the parents stay and raise them

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like they leave the astral planes for years and raise their children

white ravine
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That would most likely kill them, depending on how long they were there pri- actually no it wouldnt

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Main danger of leaving the astral is food water and sleep, since that stuff catches up pretty badly.

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Age just makes up for what you wouldve gained, so 20 years of astral time ages 20 years real time, which shouldnt kill you

gray heath
white ravine
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Githyanki hatch from eggs. Each newborn enters the world alongside other eggs deliberately laid so that all hatch at the same time. Since githyanki adults must return to the Astral Plane to keep from aging significantly, the roster of instructors continually changes, with no adult staying longer than a few months and none ever returning for a second stint.

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From MTF

gray heath
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Aging significantly = oh, noes, I now have the body of a 30 year old because I spent 10 years on the Material.

white ravine
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Its MUCH faster than that

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I dont recall the rough estimate given but the longer in the astral you spent, the faster the aging process occurs.

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Spend too long, and a few days outside can make you keel over dead.

gray heath
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That's not part of the ruleset or, by extension, the default lore.

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Unless 5e Spelljammer decided to add a different, highly disruptive rule to the setting.

white ravine
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5e lore on the astral plane beyond what I posted there is laughably sparse

gray heath
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I mean, you added extra bits.

iron saffron
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Oh God, I just had a thought WotC doing microtransactions for lore...

gray heath
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Worst proposal for microtransactions ever. Unless the goal is to push DMs to make their own stuff.

white ravine
iron saffron
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Seriously, I'm glad I have my older edition books for references when looking up for information and lore because 5E has been sparse.

white ravine
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Cant wait for planescape to crash and burn

gray heath
iron saffron
white ravine
gray heath
white ravine
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It says right in it that they cant stay in the material for long else they age significantly

gray heath
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There is nothing in that that says you accrue some kind of time debt that comes due as soon as you leave the Astral.

white ravine
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It says it right in there, the aging significantly part

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It wouldnt mention that if you aged normally

gray heath
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The Githyanki don't want old bodies, so they don't stay where they can get old bodies.

white ravine
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Would they really do singular stints of a few months in their entire lifespan if that was only 3 months of actual aging?

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Its accelerated, says it right in what I posted

gray heath
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And there is no mention of exactly how that works, so the only conclusion that can be drawn is adding ticks to your clock normally.

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Accelerated aging is not mentioned. At all.

white ravine
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Then what is with the fact they bring up the significant aging and urgency to return to the astral plane?

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If 3 months outside only acts as 3 months there is zero danger for gith leaving and that inclusion is meaningless

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So either they added a meaningless sentence of lore, or they age quickly.

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Its a documented thing as well in earlier editions like (i believe) 2e that Gith have special magic specifically to stave off that rapid aging effect

gray heath
# white ravine If 3 months outside only acts as 3 months there is zero danger for gith leaving ...

Except in the context of the rest of the society Vlaakith imposes on her subjects. They are away from raiding and training with peers. Are they such fine-tuned athletes that the jaunt will leave them "significantly aged" or are is that what they believe? And do they really like the duty?

And why are there no rules or even minimal thoughts on how aging might be accelerated? Is such a thing included in MTF's replacement (as the tome is now no longer current, apparently)?

white ravine
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Pfft, be lucky to find anything remotely based in lore in MOTM.

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Theres also the point that 5e leaves out MASSIVE heaps of lore regarding other planes

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Everything from the mountains of mount celestia to residents of acheron. Huge unexplained gaps reliant on older lore to even begin touching on

mystic merlin
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Everyone complains about that until something is set in stone and it’s not the one variant of the twelve possible lores they prefer

iron saffron
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That's because WotC knows those gaps will be filled in by 3rd parties on DMs Guild (less work for them and they get a cut)

mystic merlin
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Yes, yes. WotC bad, creativity bad, company wanting money bad.

I’m way more interested in what a totem of dragon skulls is and how some dragons use them to accelerate into the Great Wyrm stage prematurely and exceed even those limits

mystic merlin
lime holly
iron saffron
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So the thing is why are they charging $50 for books that contain so little? This is why I'm probably going to skip the 5E Planescape...

mystic merlin
halcyon laurel
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Mainly inspiration

magic jackal
somber ridge
hardy cargo
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Who is the God in a dnd stand point like who the holy figure in the dnd world

spark haven
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there's usually more than one

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i'm not familiar off-hand of any settings with an explicit Eru Illuvatar style over-god, nor any (major) canons that are canonically truly monotheistic

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there's no singular "dnd world", which clouds the question and answer significantly.

iron saffron
mystic merlin
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The closest would likely be Bahamut at this point though.

west bear
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Generally there are many different gods and each god has their own topic like god of justice or god of knowledge. There might be evil gods like god of murder but that depends on setting

iron saffron
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The closest thing to an omni-god is Ao, the overgod in the Forgotten Realms setting. He's the god of the gods, keeping the deities of that campaign setting in line, such as the Time of Troubles.

wild lava
iron saffron
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He is the one god that has no worshippers.

wild lava
mystic merlin
west bear
iron saffron
mystic merlin
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Does anyone know who the worshippers of the elder elemental eye were?

crude blaze
mystic merlin
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Sorta kinda maybe? The elder elemental stuff changed every year because new writers came in. Now it’s Tharizdun. Back then, it wasn’t tharizdun.

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It’s also Ghaunadaur but only in the forgotten realms!

mystic merlin
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What gods and powers are associated with elemental earth, and the underground, in the forgotten realms?

gray heath
mystic merlin
gray heath
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Until the Epic Level Handbook, anyway.

white ravine
mystic merlin
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Dang

white ravine
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Gimmie 5 minutes I can get the rest

mystic merlin
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Idea is that an ancient war machine of the elder elemental God is going to be activated, and then taken over by an elder brain, and this has such for reaching effects, that gods of the Earth and underdark, as well as the Earth dream, are all going to be aware of the impending doom to some degree or another

white ravine
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There is also:

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Geb, Egyptian god of Earth and Mines

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Grumbar the Earthlord

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Kabril Ali al-Sara al-Zalazil, Great Khan of the Dao

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And Sunnis, Princess of Good Earth

mystic merlin
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Think I’ll do Kepto, Gruumsh, Azuth, Mordain, and maybe some others atm

storm dagger
storm dagger
mystic merlin
storm dagger
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They do, but he does not respond to worship, for the small numbers that decided they wanted him as a patron

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He has only interfered with the world on two occasions.

mystic merlin
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I know that, I just didn’t know he was revealed to mortals at the time of troubles ending

iron saffron
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AFAIK only the gods knew of Ao but I guess some of the gods in their avatar forms may have spill the beans on Ao's existence?

mystic merlin
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Which is why I’m asking about specifics, yeah

hazy fox
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You know speaking of "modern sensibility on fantasy asia", seems that I think aznsrep folk somewhat have a point since I noticed the bad foundation bleeding through.
Like it was in 2000's, but seems that DnD have tendencies to portray Fantasy Asia as isolationist in a setting where it is neutral at best and evil at worst. Like Nathlan being suspicious towards foreignors and non-humans, and Shou Town seems to portray Fantasy Westerners as open minded (or at least wasn't given the same negativity) while Fantasy Asians "keep to themselves" along with making up most of the antagonists in plot hooks. Half-Shou entry is abit on the nose.

halcyon laurel
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Sup ya'll, anyone's got some interesting canon dragon types for me?

mystic merlin
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Battle dragon

grim siren
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Prismatic Dragon

halcyon laurel
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Something something CR 66 what the hell?

mystic merlin
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Epic enemies!

cyan rose
lofty bloom
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the word canon there makes me so sad

cyan rose
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I have no idea what, how, why, but it's cr 22 from fizban

lofty bloom
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ghost dragons in FToD are cool though

lofty bloom
cyan rose
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I have so many questions

lofty bloom
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An amazing dragon resource is a 3rd-party book called the Draconomicon, its on DMsGuild, it's got so many, with so much lore too

eager bay
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Do you prefer spell slots be for a fire-and-forget style of magic like 3.Xe and prior or more like a mana system the way 5e does?

lofty bloom
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I've been looking at spell points (I think that's what they're called), that's the most interesting interpretation to me

eager bay
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Yeah, more flexible, just a matter of handling Lv6-9 spells

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Hey, maybe have where spells have their separate MP costs separate from spell level

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and have spell points/magic points grow based on dice too?

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Maybe like:

d12: Sorcerer
d10: Wizard, Cleric
d8: Druid, Bard, Warlock
d6: Paladin, Ranger, EK, AT

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@lofty bloom wdyt

lofty bloom
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I'm not sure what you mean by dice, like how many MP each class gets?

west bear
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Is kobold kanun official lore?

iron saffron
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What's a "kanun"?

west bear
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It's just canon shooting kobolds, there's video on YT with that name

iron saffron
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Did the video cite their source(s)?

west bear
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No, it's in form of story telling

crude blaze
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That’s not lore, it seems to be someone’s personal D&D story

tranquil solstice
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For something more exotic. They're from 3e. Maybe even 2e if I'm not mistaken.

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Hellfire is basically a smaller than red fire breather, though they're covered in horns. Were dragons pose as humanoid females, then go all were creature horror on people transforming into human female/dragon hybrids.

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Much deadlier than a half dragon could ever hope to be.

analog oxide
eager bay
analog oxide
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Hellfire wyrm is in 2e . Monstrous annual 3 or 4 I think? I recall the art of it

lofty bloom
# eager bay Yeah, exactly like that!

I do like the idea, as it provides more variation. I might level it a bit better, something like
d12: sorcerer, wizard
d10: cleric, bard, druid
d8 (or d6, not sure which would work): paladin, ranger, artificer, EK & AT

topaz folio
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How big are dargon balls

mystic merlin
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On earth, they are the size of a tennis ball, or may be a bit smaller. On planet Namic, they are the size of a child’s skull.

eager bay
topaz folio
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Not the balls i wanted but ok

eager bay
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Maybe something like:

Wizard - d10
Cleric - d10
Paladin - d6 (could start at Lv1 if you wanted)
Druid - d8
Ranger - d6 (could also start at Lv1)
Bard - d8
Sorcerer - d12
Warlock - if spell points can be used instead of the unique spell slot system, probably d10
Eldritch Knight - d6, start at Lv3
Arcane Trickster - d6, start at Lv3

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@lofty bloom

topaz folio
eager bay
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Blood Hunter?

lofty bloom
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blood hunter doesn't cast

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except for the warlock-esque subclass but warlock spell points are wonky w/ pact magic

eager bay
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@lofty bloom Wanna chat in DM?

lofty bloom
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can't rn

mystic merlin
topaz folio
topaz folio
unkempt merlin
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Blood hunter isn't an official class

topaz folio
fervent smelt
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I'm so impressed with Matt Mercer

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the blood Hunter includes the ware beings right?

tranquil solstice
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Wizards defeated the Psion for whom was most powerful class in 2e. By a smidgen.
Reason wizard won, was because they used spell slots while psion uses points system. Wizard using point system wouldnt be doing them any favors. Psions can wear armor, casting is all a wizard gets. Study the history properly. You know what they say bout those that dont understand history.

mystic merlin
topaz folio
tawdry plover
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What's the deal with mordenkainen? Why does he have a wizard tower in hell? is he actually dead this whole time

eager bay
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what is this i am very curious

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is this canon dnd lore that exists in books

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i am very uneducated in dnd lore ahha

white ravine
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Yeah pretty much.

eager bay
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ok cool i love assuming and being correct about it haha i was scared i woudl sound dumb

white ravine
white ravine
eager bay
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yeaaaaa

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it’s just hard being confident in knowing that i’m not the most experienced in dnd lingo yet

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and wanting to be but knowing i have to ask questions and be curious

white ravine
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Eh. Do you think anyone who plays DND has self confidence?

eager bay
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now that is a superb question

white ravine
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Exactly, so ask away

halcyon laurel
white ravine
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Demiplanes have their limits

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Having an outpost with a teleportation circle situated in the belly of stygia is valuable given how fickle travel usually is in the hells

crude blaze
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Plus, a real self-respecting wizard will have more than one lab/tower

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Always keep a backup

white ravine
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Exactly

left spindle
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And a powerful self-respecting wizard will have more than one self.

crude blaze
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Or at the very least Project Image

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That’s my favorite villain spell lol

analog oxide
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Where does it say mordy has a tower in hell

crude blaze
gilded socket
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How "Evil" is Zhentarim in your view?

gray heath
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As evil as any mafia

gilded socket
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Are you sure?

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I mean, I see that the BN is shade and will kill if necessary

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But are they as evil as the lord of NeverwinteR?

gray heath
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They are a mafia, so, yeah....

gilded socket
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They do not work for the better good, that is pretty clear, but at the same time they do offer support between each other. For the "Family"

gray heath
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BN? Better good?

dry wharf
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In my world, they act like The Clasp. They're underhanded, self-interested, morally grey, and quite uninhibited, but they don't consider themselves evil. They will send out support for a sieged town if that town and people in it's existence they rely on.

spark haven
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I like to think of the stories of how the Yakuza have been known for sending disaster relief. There's a reason these organizations continue to operate. Sure, anyone could take a bunch of swords and bully people, but you'd need a full occupying army to get away with that for long. These organizations work because they find unmet needs in the population and fill those gaps

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They provide jobs to people who might not otherwise have access to a decent living

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They provide structure, and community

grim siren
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I fully recommend Darkhold Secrets of the Zhentarim on DMsGUILD it even has Zhent based subclasses and a section on how to use Thieves' Cant

merry rune
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If an organization will do evil deeds just to maximize profit that is not morally grey. That is evil.

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I also think they serve Bane, the "Lord of Darkness"

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It's pretty clear that they are evil from those bits of information.

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But are they sadistic? Maybe not. If you require sadism for an organization to count as "bad" then they might be neutral. That's quite the specific requirement though.

mystic merlin
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Mordenkainen, Rory, Leomund, Tenser, Bigby, and some others…

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Shoot. There’s eight right? Who else is there… Melf…

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Oh well Vecna kills all/most of them so it’s fine TashaLOL

blissful umbra
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is Galder one of em

mystic merlin
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Nope! Never heard of Galder until recently

blissful umbra
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Evard?

mystic merlin
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Versus reading about these dudes in a 1e or 2e book of characters

crude blaze
gray heath
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Otto, Serten, Rary (not Rory, spellcheck fail), Tasha.... Basically anyone who purportedly wrote a spell and appended their name to it.

mystic merlin
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No I just forgot his name and Rory sounded right 😄

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But Tasha wasn’t killed by Vecna and wasn’t a member of the circle of eight

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and was able to recover the remains of his allies and clone them.

Boooooooo

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I think Rary is the one who had a deal with Baalzebul?

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What I really like is the implication that Tasha is transfemme, with Iggwilv being noted as masculine and going on a secretive quest for personal apotheosis, back in yon olden days, and then suddenly Tasha, who is Iggwilv, shows up living her best life

tawdry plover
# gilded socket How "Evil" is Zhentarim in your view?

How evil is amazon? The mission statement of the zhentarim is to provide protection through predatory pricing, undercutting the competition and leaving entire nations dependant solely on them for survival. Also, they do a massive amount of trade on the black market, specialising in weapons, drugs and slaves

tawdry plover
hazy apex
tawdry plover
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Have you never noted that of the powerful wizards, all the men are super old and all the woman are young and attractive? My theory is that they're polymorphing themselves - the men who wasted their youth studying magic finally get to have a cute girl around, and the woman finally get to be left alone. In a way, they're both living out a power fantasy

mystic merlin
analog oxide
tawdry plover
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Only one I can name off the top of my head is explicitly coded as evil, which is a shame

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She's also described as "barrel chested with broad forearms" which is a wonderful way to describe a woman and I'm very disappointed the one well built lady I've ever seen in a dnd adventure is evil

iron saffron
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There's the Seven Sisters (I think four of them are still alive as of 5E?) and they're all immortal due to being the Chosen of Mystra.

analog oxide
halcyon laurel
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The classis witch archetype is of an old woman

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Hags count as spellcasters I think

analog oxide
iron saffron
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Of all the famous "named" male wizards I think only Elminister fit the stereotypial old man with a big grey beard (but he had a make over in 3.5E I think, getting his hair dyed, his beard trimmed, and having a stylist for a new set of clothes).

tawdry plover
# halcyon laurel Hags count as spellcasters I think

All explicitly coded as evil, which is one of the bits of lore I hate the most about dnd. Realistically, I can absolutely imagine any half decent spellcasting woman from a small community is sick of being accused of witchcraft and blamed for every single thing that goes wrong, so they just..... left, because they were sick of dealing with idiots. Makes sense pariahs like that would group up for survival, or just to have someone to talk to

halcyon laurel
tawdry plover
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Sure. So are elves. What's your point?

halcyon laurel
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That your idea is better

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Needs a little work but a lot better than outsiders that are evil just cuz

tawdry plover
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Well shucks thanks. I think anyone with a eye for inclusively is going to look at the lore surrounding all the "evil" things in dnd and say well wait a second, is everything the establishment is telling us about these things actually true?

mystic merlin
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Not every “elf” is going to be an elf (though many are). Sometimes they turn fey (Tasha), sometimes they become demigods, etc.

analog oxide
mystic merlin
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Kinda the point yeah.

white ravine
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Rough idea is that hags were part of the following of a goddess of the moon and beauty, eventually growing complacent and lazy which drove many of her followers away before she realized what was going on. By the time she got her first wrinkle she knew it was too late, and went on a murderous rampage. The twisting of her nature cursed her followers with what once were blessings. 'Her water-walking prophets becoming sea hags, sweet-voiced songs becoming green hags, and powerful protectors becoming annis hags.'

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All hags are coded evil, but divine-level curses tend to not fall to the wayside so easy.

crude blaze
iron saffron
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Back in 3.5E hags had the "usually" (which is a bit more than "often" but less than "always") in the alignment.

pale oxide
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I wonder, is there any Celestial/Angelic equivalent to Abishai?

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My understanding is the Half-Devil Half-Dragon fiends exist due to Tiamat having once served as an archfiend on Avernus, and Bahamut has held court on Mount Celestia

late flower
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Not sure if this is the right place for this but I'm writing a story and wondering what you all thought would be the best dragon type that would reasonably make a den out of traditionally red dragon territory. I was thinking Copper but open to suggestions.

pale oxide
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So here's a thought

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A Warlock could bind a Celestial or Fiend as a familiar right?

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Would it work if one tried to bind a Concordant Killer thinkdoubt

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
late flower
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i'll look into their ecology thanks

white ravine
white ravine
halcyon laurel
tired lotus
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I'm trying to find more information about Uthgardt barbarians. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction? Making my first character and I don't really know much of anything. 🥲

sterile breach
gleaming linden
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Always curious as to when the residents of the far realms will make their move on the DnD Multiverse

iron saffron
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They've always had...

gleaming linden
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WAT O.O

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What’s keeping them at bay O.o

iron saffron
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They're from the Far Realm...

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Remember that (Aberration) creatures like the Mind Flayers and Beholders are from the Far Realm.

gleaming linden
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I thought mind flayers O.o but they’re from the future o.O so does that mean they won?

I thought Beholders were dreams of Astral Dreadnoughts who slept too close to gates given form o.o

iron saffron
#

Beholders existed long before (1E) Astral Dreadnaughts (2E).

gleaming linden
#

O.O that’s new to me good to know ty ty

gentle horizon
#

what kind of metals would a rust monster not go after?

#

Something age appropriate

daring vessel
#

gold

late flower
white ravine
gentle horizon
#

is copper non ferrous?

#

ferrous just means iron right?

unkempt merlin
#

correct

halcyon laurel
white ravine
#

Well yeah, if your not carrying metal or theyre not hungry they wont bother you

placid dock
#

Does chult have canines or wolves in it?

iron saffron
#

Not that I know of. Chult is mainly jungle... and lots of dinosaurs.

sharp skiff
placid dock
#

Any canids then? Wild dogs perhaps? I meant in general. but ye thanks

#

Maybe like indian wolves?

#

Probably some domesticated in the books somewhere?

sharp skiff
#

It's possible I mean there is a keep full of people from balders gate

#

So lol

dry wharf
#

Dinosaurs, axebeaks, Tabaxi. But nothing is preventing you from adding them.

hazy fox
#

In realtions, is there DnD equivalent to Catachan Barking Toad?
Basically frog that will explode into toxic cloud whenever it is startled.

dry wharf
#

Demon Toad?

hazy fox
#

Well, like a normal (alien) toad but will blow itself up when startled.
it's from 40k and Emperor TTS as a fan video explored it.
"I want to pet this creature".

left spindle
dry wharf
#

The Shrieker Gas Spore exists in DotMM, floor 14. Take, Mash, reskin.

unkempt merlin
wind thunder
#

are fallen aasimar just tieflings?

iron saffron
#

No.

#

Tieflings are descended from fiends.
Aasimars are descended from celestials.

#

"Fallen" aasimars are just aasimars who don't live up to the high standards of goodness of their celestial ancestor and go down the dark path.

thick patrol
#

I just finished reading the Finder's Stone trilogy and Masquerades from the Harper's series... and something I have been wondering is, what was supposed to happen with Alias after these events? I know Dragonbait appears again in ToA, but no word of Alias.

iron saffron
#

She's one of the few NPCs from the 2E/3E era that WotC didn't dig out to reuse instead of creating new NPCs (2E is about 150 years before 5E).

#

Both Mirt and Volo are human NPCs from the 2E era and somehow they survived to the 5E timeline (about 150 years...).

thick patrol
# iron saffron She's one of the few NPCs from the 2E/3E era that WotC didn't dig out to reuse i...

I don't know if it was a waste or if there were some valid reasons, but Alias and Dragonbait were featured in comics, videogames, trading cards and mentioned in some of the sourcebooks of the 2E era, so there was some meaningful investment and marketing involving these characters which I would have expected WotC to weight heavily in order to keep these characters more prominent when taking over TSR IPs.

iron saffron
#

Yup, I played the Curse of the Azure Bonds CRPG

#

I just find WotC creatively lazy — instead of creating new memorable NPCs for the 5E era (which is about 130 years from 2E and 110 years from 3E) they just rehash characters from the 2E and 3E era, giving excuses while human NPCs from those eras are still alive

median bobcat
# thick patrol I don't know if it was a waste or if there were some valid reasons, but Alias an...

I like those characters too, but the early 5e design team pledged to not retcon the stuff that the 4e design team did. So it gets a bit silly if you have dozens of humans that age 100+ years, without dying.

The thing that Jeremy Crawford talked about more recently, where they said they were taking Dragonlance back to the War of the Lance, is a lot easier to deal with.

The newbies don't know about the old lore, but the people who want to use the 5e adventure with older editions, or use NPCs from old DL products with 5e, can just drop things into their game.

snow laurel
#

One of my players wants to play a yuan-ti peace domain cleric in a spelljammer campaign- meaning any god from any canon D&D setting is available. Are there any deities that make sense for them?

storm dagger
#

Illmater is pretty good for peace

analog oxide
summer knot
#

Hello. Does anyone know about the race named Vadalken? I need a little help with something

iron saffron
analog oxide
#

the cover of... manual of the planes 1e ..thats an AD

#

thats also where ID software got the art and modified it for the cacodemon

iron saffron
#

I stand corrected!

#

I forgot about that book.

#

But apparently no stats on it until 2E?

iron saffron
analog oxide
#

i assumed it had stats in manual of the planes.. planescape then has stats of course in that monster manual

#

(and with awesome tony D art work update on it in PS)

summer knot
#

What does mtg stand for?

iron saffron
#

Magic The Gathering

analog oxide
#

magic the gathering

iron saffron
#

I don't see it in any official 5E D&D books.

thick patrol
# median bobcat I like those characters too, but the early 5e design team pledged to not retcon ...

I respect and appreciate that promise made by the 5E design team, but at the same time as an old fart is a bit sad to see all that lore from 2E/3E to be unused considering the huge amount of lore produced during that period (I know, a lot of that lore was bad), it is just nostalgia. And there is always the option of telling stories during that big time jump between 3E and 4E, it's just that I feel many really good NPCs and plots had still more space to be explored or expanded.

summer knot
#

It is in Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica

iron saffron
#

I stand corrected again (twice in a row!). I don't have that book (physical) but see it now on D&D Beyond.

summer knot
#

Can you dm with me so I can ask you about something?

iron saffron
#

Nope

summer knot
#

Okay. So you can't help me?

iron saffron
#

You can ask here. Sorry but I don't accept friends requests.

summer knot
#

Okay lol. Im trying to make an Avatar build and there's a video on it but I am confused

#

The blue people one

iron saffron
summer knot
#

I'm new here. I wasn't sure where to ask

iron saffron
#

This channel talks about lore from the various campaign settings and editions.

summer knot
#

Okay sorry

analog oxide
ionic rivet
#

Oh you'll probably want #1045166392174972938 for backstory help. This channel is more of D&D lore over the various official settings/adventures.

eager bay
#

So was the demogorgon once a human soul

white ravine
#

The first.

#

First soul to ever make it down to the abyss and be mutated...

analog oxide
#

thats what his 5e version is?

white ravine
#

Wasnt that always it?

analog oxide
#

no

#

he wasnt the first mortal soul sent to the abyss.

fluid rune
#

Hello to all i have just created a society and i think its pretty cool with that i have also made a story in that setting.
it took me 4 days and im pretty proud of what ive done this is the document.

iron saffron
#

Um... that's not how things work.

#

You can't share a file on your DropBox here.

fluid rune
#

haha hold on

iron saffron
#

Besides, this channel is to discuss about official D&D lore and campaign settings, not homebrew stuff.

fluid rune
#

i cant atacha pdf here ?! why

#

oh my bad

#

im new sorry

iron saffron
#

Because it's a possible security risk...

fluid rune
#

(to the server)

#

is there a homebrew chat

#

icant find it

iron saffron
wary parrot
#

Hey how did Tyr even become part of the Forgotten Realms Pantheon?

iron saffron
#

He's an interloper god from another world.

eager bay
#

It's a pretty common occurrence in The Forgotten Realms.

unkempt merlin
#

The rest of the Norse pantheon technically came with him iirc
I think most of them are dead(?) Or at least just staying in their own planes

eager bay
#

I think about 90% of the Egyptian pantheon has a presence in The Realms, too. It's a quirky setting, especially once you wander far east from the Sword Coast.

iron saffron
#

Never read that before. AFAIK he was the only one from the Norse pantheon.

However, most of the Egyptian pantheon arrived in Toril with the Mulan people arrived from another world.

eager bay
#

Jinx.

iron saffron
#

From the FR wiki:

An interloper deity, Tyr, known as the One-Handed across the Outer Planes, was the same power as the god of the same name in the Norse pantheon, although in the Realms he was worshiped only as a god of justice and not as a god of war. As the only Norse power worshiped in Faerûn, if a cleric of the Norse pantheon came to Toril from another world, he or she would be granted spells through Tyr.

As the only lawful member of the Norse pantheon, Tyr faded largely from prominence. For this reason, he sought a means of strengthening his power by obtaining worshipers from other worlds. He chose the crystal sphere of Realmspace and submitted himself to the authority of the overgod Ao

#

Gods can exist in different worlds — they're essentially echoes. This is why Lolth and Tiamat are on different world with slight changes. The more worshippers they have the more divine power they get.

wary parrot
unkempt merlin
#

The FR is the kitchen sink to hold all kitchen sinks

wary parrot
#

Loki at any moment: YOU JUST GOT PRANKED YO

iron saffron
wary parrot
iron saffron
#

Ao has promoted mortals to godhood while removing divine power from gods.

#

Ao is the overgod of Realmspace — he's the gods' god.

eager bay
#

Ao is the most powerful god, but he's really just ... well, kind of the head of HR? He's only there to ensure that the gods do their jobs.

#

He answers to no prayers, and never involves himself in mortal affairs.

wary parrot
#

Looks at Bhaal, Bane, and Cyric

You sure they haven't made any mistakes?

iron saffron
#

The Time of Troubles is when Ao kicked the gods to Toril in mortal form so they could learn a valuable lesson in their jobs and responsibilities to their worshippers.

wary parrot
#

Wheeze

#

So where does Primus fall into this?

eager bay
#

I remember that Neverwinter Nights 2 would allow you to pick Ao as your deity, and it would tell you that picking him was pointless.

amber merlin
#

Any advice on Alhoon lairs? I’m about to run a session in which my party catches the last of a ritual making a mind flayer an alhoon, and they chase him into his lair. I have it decently planned out as an old mind flayer sanctum that the alhoon took over to use to build an army and take over the region, it’s got a study, altar room, combat room, puzzles, traps, all that. But any advice on ambience for a mind flayer sanctum?

fresh river
#

I love how they made it an option

mystic merlin
# iron saffron He's an interloper god from another world.

Interloper feels strong. He’s here on allowance so it’s not like he broke in and won’t leave. TashaLOL

Tyr and one other came in with Real Life Earth Vikings who were kidnapped for slave labor and continued worshipping their own gods. He and one other came through to support them and is allowed here by Ao.

#

Or that’s the version of the story my FR friends and the history stuff I’ve looked at tells.

#

Heya Mileth! Good to see you round these parts again 🙂

analog oxide
wary parrot
analog oxide
#

And the modrons promote the lower form I to the next higher one so when primus was killed, replaced and then the spot was vacated, one of the... forgot name. The ones right below, would get upgraded to the new primus iirc

wary parrot
#

I am become confuse

analog oxide
#

How about this. What do u want to know about primus specifically.

wary parrot
#

Was he always around?

Was he some mortal ascended to godhood?

Was he born of someone?

Or was he just a modron that went under eons of upgrades?

analog oxide
#

Primus was like the lord/God of all modrons. But for any modron, if tehy are destroyed, a modron from the lower rank gets upgraded to the next form to replace the loss.

#

I don't think any lore ever said where the first one came from

#

But back then planescape did a lot about belief. A being that believed rhey were powerful and others did as well, reality could be shaped and they could become powerful. Maybe it was a more powerful than normal modron and it rose to that position. I wonder if 1e mentions his beginning

wary parrot
#

I was told something about how he set up the Devils conditions of deal making

analog oxide
#

Maybe 5e added/changed rhat lore?

wary parrot
#

Something like the deal making was to keep the evil of devils in check

iron saffron
#

There is no one Primus. Primus is more of a title like the Pope. When a Primus dies, a Secondus takes over.

stuck breach
#

Primus sails the sea of cheese

eager bay
#

@stuck breach in the scope of worldbuilding, would you say that Vancian magic fits both arcane and divine magic fine or arcane magic only?

stuck breach
#

I use the magic system as written

iron saffron
#

You seem to ask about Vancian magic a lot. It's a gameplay mechanic and not really lore...

eager bay
#

Basically, thinking outside the scope of 3.Xe and prior's style where each and every instance of a spell to be cast needs to be prepared in advance, would divine magic not necessarily work for that

stuck breach
#

I'm familiar with the tern "Vancian magic" inasmuch as it's applied to D&D magic due to Gygax basing the game's magic system on that of Jack Vance's in the Dying Earth series, but I don't really understand your question.

eager bay
#

Lemme reword it

#

Would divine spellcasters, thinking outside the game mechanics and more just the broader worldbuilding, namely Greyhawk, Mystara, and FR, likely be more spontaneous in their spellcasting?

stuck breach
#

I honestly don't see how to separate that from game mechanics unless you're writing a story.

eager bay
#

I am

stuck breach
#

Then do whatever you want

eager bay
#

maybe I'm trying to ask how Vancian magic is justified in-game

stuck breach
#

It's the way it works in-game

#

It's not separable from mechanics, because it is the mechanics of the game

eager bay
#

fair

stuck breach
#

"Game" = "has mechanics," i.e. rules
If there's no rules, it's not a game, it's just play

eager bay
#

No I know

#

Maybe I'm overthinking it ever since I got affiliated with The Dying Earth

stuck breach
#

Since you're not likely writing an official story for publishing by WoTC, there's no reason you need to adhere to anything in the game. If you want to make the magic different in your own fictional setting, then go right ahead.

#

One of the ways I describe spell slots working is that the caster (divine or arcane) is channeling the magic energies, and a more experienced caster is capable of channeling more than an inexperienced one.
You could just as well describe the limits on spell preparation the same way - since the act of casting a spell is difficult, the capacity for retention of those magical operations is limited, i.e. you can only keep so much of it in your head or something like that.

eager bay
#

Yep! I always pictured, at least for arcane casters, that preparation of a spell is essentially taking a partially-cast spell and instilling it on one's psyche, by which you can then do the remaining components to cast the spell.

#

but I'm unsure how it'd work with clerics, paladins, druids, and rangers

stuck breach
#

Also, I'd be cautious in how much of Dying Earth you apply to interpreting/ruling D&D, since D&D isn't Dying Earth. While Gygax, et al was inspired by Vance's work, that doesn't give Vance some authority over the game.

#

Clerics/paladins are just saying special prayers.

eager bay
#

I always pictured clerics and paladins having some connection to their patron deity and gaining a portion of their power that way or something like that.

#

since I doubt any ordinary acolyte would simply be able to gain divine magic on a whim; the deity needs a reason to give them that

iron saffron
#

Clerics and paladins pray for their spells. The FR gods have specific times of day when those prayers for spells are granted.

eager bay
#

Right right

#

OH OH OH okay, so the deity instills those instances of each spell on their psyche via communions with them, that makes more sense

#

And then Turn Undead and other Channel Divinity features be more spontaneous

rich rose
#

would any particularly busy deity have a majordomo operating under a power of attorney to grant spells? Might be a neat “aw shucks, I thought I had a personal connection with my deity” Even a call centre type sitch could be an interesting spin.

eager bay
#

druids and rangers too I think?

iron saffron
#

Everything in D&D falls under the Vancian-like magic system. Frankly, I thought the sorcerer should have had a magic/mana points system to differentiate itself from wizards more. The psionic classes, if my memory serves me right, were point based (please correct me on this if I'm wrong).

eager bay
#

Which edition?

#

And yeah, I could totally see sorcerers having an MP pool as long as it didn't make them broken

mystic merlin
vernal geode
#

Who is the ruler of the abyss?

iron saffron
#

Noone.

#

The Abyss is an ever growing (aka infinite layers) Lower Plane.

vernal geode
#

So technically the abyss has infinite demon lords?

#

And demon princes

iron saffron
#

Sure. Past MMs have listed off dozens of demon lords/princes by name but no statblocks.

vernal geode
iron saffron
#

If you want to know more look into 2E Planescape books.

vernal geode
#

You seem pretty knowledge about older edition lore, a question was satan/Lucifer a being in the DND multiverse?

#

Like I heard in 1/2e there was a being that was called satan and was kicked by Asmodeus

iron saffron
#

Not officially. Asmodeus is the closest thing to Satan/Lucifer.

vernal geode
#

Ah I see

#

A question about fallen angels, why most of them choose to go the nine hells instead of the abyss?

iron saffron
#

There may have been mention of Satan in early Dragon magazines but as far as I know Satan/Lucifer were not in any of the official books — it was bad enough with the "Satanic Panic" of the 80s that TSR didn't need to feed the flames.

#

Angels are usually LG so their corruption tend to be on the good-evil axis rather than along the lawful-chaotic axis.

vernal geode
#

Were they any angels who went to the abyss and gained power there, instead of the nine hells?

iron saffron
#

I don't know of any from the top of my head.

#

Apparently Grazzt was once a devil but got corrupted by the Abyss and became a demon lord. I think there were hints he was a celestial in his previous life and fell from grace along with Asmodeus (don't quote me on that, it's from my hazy memory of several editions' lore)

vernal geode
#

This reminds me, why people always say that archdevils>demon lords?

#

Like correct me if I am wrong but if you kill a demon he just respawns back in the abyss

iron saffron
#

Organized > disorganized

#

Yes, outsiders only die if killed on their home plane.

vernal geode
#

Like either I am confused or something but, didn't a lot of people kill demon lords in the abyss and they just respawned after a a lot of time? They are by my knowledge immortal right?

paper lion
#

okay the demon lords (or some of them anyway) have like a discount brand phylactery

#

so its weird

#

i havent read mordenkainens tome of foes in a while so

iron saffron
#

Lore-wise the only demon lord that has "officially" died was Orcus and he eventually came back as an "undead" demon lord.

#

During Orcus' death he was survived by his aspect, Tenebrous. Eventually he became Orcus again by emerging from Tenebrous.

analog oxide
iron saffron
analog oxide
# vernal geode This reminds me, why people always say that archdevils>demon lords?

before at least, with asmodeus as an exception (in 2e his being/form was...differetn but that lore was dropped after). demogorgon was very powerful , and several demons were more powerful in combat than the arch devils. asmodeus was an exception. but i wouldnt say. at least before, that archdevils > demon lords. there are so many demon lords, it depends which ones.

#

also in older editions, 1e had the most stated gods , devils, demons . then 3.xe, . 2e actaully only had a few. it had the artchdevils. but only... 2 or 3 demonlords IIRc got stats. tons were mentioned due to planescape but no stats 🙂

iron saffron
#

Asmodeus is a greater god.

I think in 2E some of the demon lord briefly were lesser gods (as listed in the Monster Mythology book) but for the most part they tend to be weaker statblock-wise than archdevils (who had aspects in 3.5E)

vernal geode
#

Isn't Grazzt the demon lord of lust and desire? When I was reading on him he said to have millions of mortal concubines? How did he get millions of mortals to his domain in the abyss I thought it was difficult for a mortal to live in the abyss?

analog oxide
#

in 2e asmodeus was above the greater gods and overgods.

iron saffron
#

Graazt has three layers in the Abyss.

Each layer of the Abyss is different, customized to the desires and whims of the demon lord that rules it.

analog oxide
vernal geode
#

This reminds me which demon lord tried to invade the material plane the most?

analog oxide
#

hmm. i dont think any in the traditional sense? a few have been summoned to the prime worlds

iron saffron
#

Malcanthet, the self proclaimed queen of the succubi, has her realm Shendilavri on the 570th layer. It looks like paradise at a glance but it's nightmare under the facade.

iron saffron
analog oxide
#

demogorgon, orcus , baphomet, eltab have all been summoned to the prime worlds at times. but in terms of plots that directly affected the worlds. demogorgon directly ? (savage tide 3.xe mega adventure), Orcus . those 2 i would say

iron saffron
#

Demons can't willing leave the Abyss. They need to be summoned.

vernal geode
#

Honestly I find the demon lords lore much more fun, cuz you can do so much with chaos and not a lot of order

#

Also there infinite planes in the abyss so much more freedom in writing

analog oxide
#

i like them too. i want to sculpt/design/buy more of them. the rarer ones. im alwasy looking for a good marilith i can have printed larger than normal and modify with extra arms to make Shaktari 🙂

iron saffron
#

I'm currently running a 5E conversion of the 3.5E Savage Tide and so far my players have no idea that Demogorgon is the main BBEG. They have hints at something sinister but not the full extent.

analog oxide
#

how far r they? chapter wise?

iron saffron
#

They finished Chapter 2 so they have 20 days of downtime until the start of Chapter 3. During this time they're doing personal side quests.

analog oxide
#

i was running savage tide with my 2nd group years ago when i dropped them. a modified savage tide ( i linked it with some otehr adventures to make an even grander plan).

vernal geode
#

Btw, you guys said demons don't willing go to invade the material plane, how about they pull the material plane into their realm and fuse it/currupt it

iron saffron
#

I picked the Savage Tide because the PCs will meet major demon lords and other figures like Iggwilv.

#

That's a lot of work. The Material Plane is massive

analog oxide
#

yeah. i used Iggwilv (tasha) stats from there when my players met/dealt with her on a request from Grazzt.

#

then they killed her.... stuff happens shrug

vernal geode
analog oxide
#

asmodeus trapped a prime world back.. Paladin in Hell? i think? its mentioned there i think

iron saffron
#

I found Iggwilv's 5E statblock underwhelming. I had to modify it dramatically to give her more umph. Likewise, Demogorgon is underpowered in 5E so I tweaked it to be more in line with the 3.5E version (and there are several iterations).

#

Oh, Paladin in Hell has a ship that's an Abyssal layer!

analog oxide
#

demo is underpoweredd in savage tide IMHO. but thats cause i follow the 2e lore for him

#

yes that but i think it also mentions asmodeus using some item to trap a planet? or tried too?

iron saffron
#

Well, Savage Tide gives the PCs methods to weaken him...

analog oxide
#

ya. but even without that. but thats me 🙂 🙂

vernal geode
#

This reminds me before I knew the lore, i was playing a campaign and after I called iggwilv Tasha she was pissed at me, can someone explain why this one like 2 years ago

analog oxide
#

hmm.. the dm played her as being angry at your character?

vernal geode
#

Yes

#

Is there a lore reason?

analog oxide
#

oldman, meek,etc r much better resources

#

i think maybe she uses her differetn names on specific worlds or something? so she doenst like ppl who know her names?

#

but thats a blind stupid guess

vernal geode
#

From what I guess, a lot of gods/powerful beings don't like to be called by their mortal names?, but this is just a guess

analog oxide
#

usually its their true names, if applicable, they protect. nick names? didnt think they care

vernal geode
#

@iron saffron you have answer for this question?

iron saffron
#

I don't know the official lore reason. Perhaps it's like a deadname to her?

analog oxide
#

Meek and Elgate know alot of that older greyhawk lore. maybe they would know

iron saffron
#

Yeah, I don't know much about Greyhawk lore. I only played using the Forgotten Realms setting.

paper lion
#

i think tasha tashas cauldron of everything just doesnt like you knowing things about her

#

from when i read wild beyond the witchlight

vernal geode
analog oxide
#

i'll go with cesario. she just wants to hide her backgrund 😄

#

maybe shes jsut ultra secretive. which she seems to be from the small lore i know. so as cesario says. anything is too much knowledge

#

she prob doesnt like that, at least in the 2e/3e era it was known her mansion was on the. .. gray wastes

vernal geode
#

This is actually reminds me of another question

#

All the demon lords use their true name aka birth name and they don't care

#

Why'did she change her name?

iron saffron
#

No the demon lords don't really use their true names. Someone who knows their true name can have power over them.

vernal geode
#

Btw this reminds me who gives them their true name?

#

Their demonic parents?

iron saffron
#

Demons don't have parents. They're born from the Abyss itself.

analog oxide
#

many of them are created our of raw chaos/magic (at least before). some are promoted as the abyss and belief raised their power from lower demons (ORcus). again before. not sure on curent lore take on it

iron saffron
#

If you want more info on demons, check out previous editions' splat books such as 4E Demonomicon

vernal geode
#

But, I am confused cuz a lot of demon lords fathered so many demons, so where the demons that were born get their name?

paper lion
#

according to an unearthed arcana uhhh "A true name is the name by which a self-aware creature identifies itself. This name might be the name a person was given at birth, or one a person chose or earned later in life."

analog oxide
#

4e Demonicon isnt bad. 2e Planes of Chaos 3.5e Hordes of the Abyss . all have expanded lore u could pick and choose from

iron saffron
#

Demons don't (normally) reproduce like mortals do.

paper lion
#

direct quote from unused wizard subclass with weird true name shenanigans

vernal geode
analog oxide
#

yes they are. basically half fiends from a 3e POV.

#

but not all of them do that. some shape change, etc

iron saffron
analog oxide
#

some are normal humanoids forms. i dont know how demogorfgon had kids with other demonlords and gods. but he/it did. (some are in Savage tide)

vernal geode
#

Yeah, but like where those demons who were born get their name?

iron saffron
#

Demogorgon has fathered vile monsters.

analog oxide
#

im slowly working on a model of the most powerful of them 😄

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Maybe the Abyss gave it to them.

analog oxide
#

arendagrost

vernal geode
#

I assume that demonic parent gives them name?

iron saffron
#

The Abyss is a living plane.

vernal geode
#

Ohh

#

Ohh, now I know why the demons are called children of the abyss I thought it was an insult hahahah

stuck breach
#

Demons are basically birthed out of the Abyss's infinitude; it's an advantage in the Blood War they have over the Devils who need to upscale souls into new Devils.

eager bay
#

I'm curious, and I know this is gonna be a weird question but

#

in FR, is evolution justified or is that setting more creationist?

iron saffron
#

D&D is very creationist. Gods created their mortal children.

#

There may be magical experiments by mad wizards trying to create new creatures (see owlbears).

#

But evolution isn't really a thing in D&D.

#

Remember that the typical D&D campaign settings are usually only tens of thousands years old. In real life, modern humans have been around for about 200,000 years. The human family tree goes back over 4 million years or so.

vernal geode
eager bay
#

You know, there is one way to marry the two

iron saffron
#

Your table your lore.

#

But the humanoid fantasy species of D&D aren't evolved/related to each other. Their respective creator gods made them and planted them on various worlds.

eager bay
#

Even if the world itself be similar in age to Earth, the "gods" be a race of primordial spacefaring superbeings who arrived and helped shape evolution.

eager bay
iron saffron
#

Okay, sure. Then that's homebrew territory.

eager bay
#

kinda Lovecraft material lol

iron saffron
#

A lot of the sentient races on Toril came from other worlds. Only a handful are "creator races" that were native to Toril when it was created (Sarrukh, Batrachi, Aearee, the fey, early humans, and dragons).

vernal geode
eager bay
iron saffron
#

Elves were descended from the Feywild as far as I recall.

eager bay
#

Yeah, specifically the descendants of the Eladrin

vernal geode
granite silo
#

wasn't there some bit about Dragons coming from elsewhere and arriving in the world suddenly?

hazy fox
main palm
#

I agree with obi evolution doesn't make an exciting story for a fantasy world, as gods do, you can write books how this god or entity went to a mythical quest and in the end created this race as opposed to they just evolved that way that's why they are like that

mystic merlin
# stuck breach Demons are basically birthed out of the Abyss's infinitude; it's an advantage in...

I’m fairly confident souls condemned to the abyss are also eventually upscaled into demons, it is just much less likely to happen as an intentional process.

And both the abyss and hell utilize the majority of their soul cachet to keep the plain itself intact/growing.

I don’t think we ever touch on why souls are absorbed into the outer planes actually. We just know that they are eventually, in all of the outer planes.

#

I am ending this conversation, much less confident insure than I started it TashaLOL

main palm
#

I have a question about demi gods in FR, are they just the children of greater gods, or is it like a title you need to earn?

crude blaze
main palm
#

How about a union between toe demi gods?

crude blaze
#

The rules/lore don’t say anything about that, so probably up to the DM.

#

Unless there’s something in older editions that dictates otherwise.

main palm
#

Now a question what's the usual ways for a mortal or a being to become a lesser god?

crude blaze
#

Probably getting people to perceive them as a god and thus amass worshippers

main palm
#

So technically a dragon can say to every lizard tribe/kobold tribe/dragon born tribe and he can become a lesser god?

crude blaze
#

A lot of the lore at least seems to suggest that gods need worshippers to stay gods, but “divine ascension” is typically a DM-based plot focus. At least in 5E, the only edition I know.

crude blaze
#

But again, that’s dragons. There isn’t a whole lot out there in 5E about “How humanoids can become gods”.

white ravine
iron saffron
#

In the Forgotten Realms sphere you also need Ao's final approval for such a promotion (during the Time of Troubles several mortals replaced dead gods).

median bobcat
eager bay
white ravine
#

Humans specifically evolved, since they pretty much lack a patron deity

iron saffron
#

Yeah, humans don't have a creator god... not one pantheon but many (at least on Toril)

unkempt merlin
#

At least some of the humans on Toril did evolve. Cause they are from straight up Earth

white ravine
#

Mhm.

analog oxide
tacit venture
#

think Humans were also supposed to be "evil" as a race

static valve
#

Can anyone help me find information on the Dolvak Clan of Ironspur? I can't find much, and I would love to know what the crest is

left spindle
eager bay
#

Would a Shinto priest/miko be more like a cleric or a druid?

zenith dust
#

could be literally any class

eager bay
#

I know

zenith dust
#

what I mean is a real world religion doesn't translate to game mechanics

#

so go with whatever you want

#

can even be huge

eager bay
#

Remind me if AD&D had something like that for an expansion or smth

zenith dust
#

no, there's no AD&D supplements that have good translations of real world faiths

white ravine
zenith dust
#

I don't see how monk fits. cleric fits only because it's priestly but it's not really a good fit either

eager bay
#

Druid

#

Shintoism definitely has a lot of parallels between it and the Celtic pagan faiths

white ravine
#

Druid is a maybe, but Im not well versed enough in it to give a definitive answer

mystic merlin
#

The closest there would be was a Monk kit for the 2e Priest class, but it was… not a good fit.

zenith dust
#

yeah I can't think of any reason to use monk for shinto

mystic merlin
zenith dust
#

honestly classes are blocks of combat materials. trying to ascribe a real world religion to a combat class is really bizarre

#

and I think it'd be more suited to homebrew discussion than lore (since this is lore of official settings, not warping real world religions into combat abilities)

#

maybe character discussion

ionic rivet
#

Also this server is not really the place to discuss real-world religions (see server rules).

iron saffron
#

Is there a reason why you want to mimick a real world religious order? I personally would avoid that...

mystic merlin
#

Isn’t being a priest a background feature?

zenith dust
#

acolyte is!

mystic merlin
#

That’s the one

Kinda sad they changed it from priest, though.

zenith dust
#

They whatnow

#

It's always been acolyte

crude blaze
#

Might have been different in older editions

#

I don’t think Acolyte makes that much of a difference though, it’s still the same vibe. Just a different word.

vernal geode
#

i have a question about Malcanthet, who does she have like as an arch sucubbus? or like a more powerful version of a sucubbus ?

gilded fog
#

There are specific real world things for early classes (clerics not being allowed to use bladed weapons in some editions being a reference to Odo a prominent priest on the Bayeux Tapestry who refused to shed blood.

#

It was also a balance thing because the first Cleric (class built based on 70s vampire flicks) "Sir Fang" was really strong so Gygax and Arneson added the shed no blood stipulation to the cleric.

#

It essentially capped damage at 1d6 rather then 1d8

analog oxide
iron saffron
#

The specialty priests weren't limited with bludgeoning weapons if my memory is correct?

sudden niche
#

some could use flails, if memory serves

gentle horizon
#

How exactly does scrying work. If im going to scry on a party to my knowledge, choose the weakest wisdom save then you can scry on everyone around them because its designated to that person?

spark haven
#

To the best of my knowledge, the handbook scrying spells all require a specific target. So if the scryer knew enough information about each party member and had the time and spell slots to burn, sure, they could brute force it

#

But I don't think the handbooks are an exhaustive accounting of possible magics

#

there's a lot of power in the world, even more unnamed than named. lots of secrets

harsh vale
#

Is there any forgotten realms deity thats especially zealous towards smiting evil specifically but not chaos? I'm making a conquest paladin who's especially agressive against perceived evil, though isn't neccesarily lawful, rather just anti-evil. (Like they would support a robin hood thing even though it breaks usual laws, but would be merciless against say a corrupt nobleman who follows the law but is very "evil" in their eyes)

#

The deity itself wouldn't have to be good, I've been considering Bane but he feels a bit too far

iron saffron
#

Lathandar

left spindle
#

Lathandar is the quintessential "neutral good" deity of Faerun from what I remember of Descent Into Avernus

hazy fox
#

Is there any lore on Orcish language using Dwarven Alphabet in Faerun?
Was it “cultural appropriation” (I mean they did conquer and desecrate Dwarven settlements as usual in fantasy, which included using letters but keeping their language system), or Many Arrows buddying up with Bruenor (who is surpassing chill for a Dwarf, like he didn’t attack or drive off Drizzt on sight unlike other denizens of a Icewind Dale and even made peace with Orcs as a king).

iron saffron
#

Lathandar is a NG greater god but he (and thus his followers) can be very intolerant of evil being or those who let evil thrive to the point where he (and his followers) may be blinded by their aggressive do-gooder attitudes and idealistic crusades to realize their consequences and ramifications of their action.

In the Dawn Cataclysm event, he tried to reshape the Faerun pantheon in his own image and that led to the deaths of several gods.

warm zealot
#

Lore question if someone with more info can help:
Why are Pazuzu and Gargauth both in each other Appendix sections on the forgotten realms wiki, are they in any way related or have done something together? I can't find any info anywhere.
They are both major villains in a few of my campaigns and I want to connect them, but I can't find any official reason.

solemn oriole
#

if you have on your bookshelf on halloweed ground pg 172 to 185 or so as i flip thru it, you can get some really condesed canon by world

silent timber
hollow vigil
#

@grim siren
Yeah Halruaa is cool. I wanted my story to take place in a high magic setting and there’s not much like that in the swords coast area so I had to look elsewhere and someone told me about Halruaa, and I had to read a lot of stuff from past editions to get an idea of what’s going on there

I found one tweet from Crawford saying he thinks that it would’ve changed since previous editions in drastic ways because of the spellplague but he admitted he has no idea what the actual designers have planned for that area in 5e if anything

Which is upsetting but I just assume for simplicity not much has changed

grim siren
#

Yeah, for anything really east of the sword coast, it's safer to assume that things restabilized pre-spell plague levels

#

Man if you ever look at a 4E map halruaa was in a rough spot

hollow vigil
#

Yeah I mean their entire infrastructure is build around magic and they have a council of 400+ extremely skilled mages so… I can only assume that they rebuilt

hollow vigil
#

Wasn’t it just an area of entirely wild magic forkery?

#

I read it abit ago I can’t remember specifics

#

5e did one thing and that was retcon it to say “oh the spell plague didn’t destroy it they escaped they’re fine” but then never used Halruaa besides that one mention

grim siren
#

Pretty much it was a wasteland a la the mournland from Eberron. That's how I ran it in the 4e days.

hollow vigil
#

Yeah that’s what the map looks like

#

Wait I’m looking at it now, they renamed Aklaur Swamp to Aklaur Marsh? Why? What’s the point of that change?

#

Is there a technical difference between a swamp and a marsh?

#

Oh a swamp has woody plants but a marsh is mostly herbaceous. So I guess there are some implications in that regard

grim siren
#

On that portion, not quite sure. But generally, a swamp is wetter.

hollow vigil
#

That makes me think

I’ve built the swamp area in respect to what it was like in 3e, but would the spellplague have changed the swamp in any meaningful way?

#

Like I rebuilt the Larakens just because I thought they were the perfect enemy in a high magic setting to really cement why the place is dangerous enough for them to have moved the capital at one point because of its presence

#

But now I’m thinking “would they even still be there after the spellplague and all?”

#

I mean either way I’m keeping them because they’re perfect they eat magic and can use your magic against you. There’s nothing like that in 5e and it works too well for a high magic setting

#

Bane of magic users everywhere

grim siren
#

Hahah. I pulled something from older editions called Dead Magic zones. Drop my players in there for the first time. Oh boy 5e does not like that.

hollow vigil
grim siren
#

Dead-magic zones were areas of anti-magic or null-magic that disabled enchantments or prevented spells from being maintained or cast.

In the Year of the Gauntlet, 1369 DR, Calispar Delgorth, working at the Vipers' Nest zone, discovered that plants grown within a dead-magic zone had magic-resistant properties. He hypothesized that such plants "soaked up" the essence of the dead-magic zone.

#

Basically a naturally occurring anti-magic field

hollow vigil
#

Oh

#

Hm

grim siren
#

You could use Mystra's magic to heal it like pure essence. But it drained from the entirety of the world's weave. A wish spell could only remove 30 feet of it.

hollow vigil
#

Yeah that seems unbalanced because you’re basically saying that the magic users can’t do the one thing they’re supposed to be able to do

In 5e that’s been delegated to zones on the field that aren’t always active during a fight

#

So basically to disable the magic users is fine but to completely shut them down isn’t fun

grim siren
#

The original design philosophy was to give it a space so that martial characters could flourish in a utility sense. And these were designed in the second edition age where a player character's feelings were not really taken into account in the design philosophy. Mostly for worse

#

If you wish to use them in 5e After several months of testing, I found that having them be smallled where they can fit on a battle map. Or in an encounter as an environmental hazard is the best way to go. Instead of having being a giant swath area

hollow vigil
#

No I agree and that’s one reason I want to use the Laraken; but it’s not a complete shut down; it just means that the party may choose for the martial character to take the front lines against these things and they get to shine. The magic users aren’t useless they just enable the monster if they fail to hit with a spell attack or get hit with its tentacles

#

Yeah making it a smaller area makes sense

Like have it be those flowers so there’s a patch of them on the field a martial enemy may use for cover when they realize the party has magic

Or not martial, ranged would make more sense so they stand in the patch and shoot the party just fine but they have added protection against spellcasters by standing in the middle of the patch

grim siren
#

And you know, just remember it's both ways. If you're facing against an evil wizard, he can't stand behind one and lob spells at you because he's affected by the same thing.

hollow vigil
#

I suppose if I was a player in 2e game played by the book, it would just mean my spellcaster would require other options like spellcasters in older elder scrolls needed a melee option because mana didn’t auto regen. They’d have to have other options in case magic couldn’t be used for a long period of time

hollow vigil
#

Just as part of home security

grim siren
#

There's actually supported information on that. A lot of times. Flowers were used from dead magic zones to concoct poisons that made you resistant to magic or drain spell slots from a magic user if taken. Other cases gemstones growing in caves were dead. Magic zones could enchant weapons to have dead magic properties

hollow vigil
#

Ooooh

#

I might add a dead magic plant to my world now that’s a really cool thing players could play with if done right

grim siren
#

Yeah, they're mentioned on the wiki for the realms so just search Dead Magic zones and they'll pop up

hollow vigil
#

Perfect

#

An ingredient for magic resist potions… just resistant to all magical damage?

#

Or like magic doesn’t affect you period?

grim siren
#

Since it was designed for 2nd edition, the rules don't really necessarily translate. What I did is I gave it a timer like an hour or a minute and gave you advantage on saving throats against spells. If it was a potion that was friendly and if it was poison it drained x number of spouse lots or cause you to serve in the wild magic table if you weren't a wild sorcerer

eager bay
#

Which kinds of magic would be external and which be internal?

hollow vigil
#

also "spouse lots"

#

oh thats actually more or less correct, because I was reading the 3e stuff on magehounds, and they're supposed to be magic resistant but 3e handled that differently, so instead it says they get a +1 bonus to saves against spells, so giving them advantage is not only more significant, but it's the same sorta direction

#

just utilizing the design philsophy of advantage being a thing

#

So yeah thats probably the way to go about it

iron saffron
#

5E's Magic Resistance is kinda weak since it only gives advantage on saving throws.

analog oxide
#

The purpose was to speed it up right and remove the need for extra roll?

#

Ie the actual mr / Sr roll check

#

Cause I guess if u pass u don't need to roll the second save ....oh actually same number of rolls . Nm

iron saffron
#

The 3.5E Spell Resistance was a d20 + caster level to beat the SR number for the spell to work against the target.

analog oxide
#

Ya I just meant it was another roll to do.whether the Sr check or thr 2e MR. But I guess advantage is still rolling a secon dice so same thing.

white ravine
eager bay
#

Basically. And yeah, wizards' magic be external in that sense, since those arcane energies be like this otherworldly or alien thing that binds the multiverse together.

#

at least the way I see it

white ravine
#

Mhm.

lean moat
#

I usually express evocation magic as something that binds the world together in some sense, especially since it’s literally a “raw energy”. Works well for custom evocation damage attacks for some ancient advanced magic automatas in my world

#

Sorry to barge in I am just bored and sleep deprived lol

rancid lintel
#

Hey

#

So

#

Are half fiends fertile?

lean moat
#

._.

#

No clue lmao

rancid lintel
#

Apparently they’re fertile with elves

#

But

lean moat
#

That even sounds rad

#

I heavily doubt that

#

Also what sort of furry fantasies do you have dude lol this is a lore channel not DnD mythbusters

rancid lintel
#

Not furry fantasy

#

Jurassic park

#

Yes I understand there are dinosaurs already but I reject the notion

#

So for a thought experiment I’m trying to figure out if someone could create something dinosaur like in appearance

#

From hybrids between gnomes, abyssal chickens, bone devils, and maybe more

#

The sun elves got big into hybridizing with demons and devils in the lore. So it should be possible

lean moat
#

He means it’s not possible

rancid lintel
#

How so?

#

Draegloth is a hybrid demon humanoid hybrid

lean moat
#

I presume it’s on paper

#

Way they grow and their overall physiology you can assume because of environment and their sheet

#

I doubt that can work out

#

God I will now dream about why it’s possible and why not in nightmares

rancid lintel
#

It’s what happens will when a Glabrezu and a elf get freaky

white ravine
rancid lintel
#

So a half bone devil half gnome might be?

white ravine
#

God forbid whoever allowed that to happen, but yes.

rancid lintel
#

But

#

What about the abyssal chicken

#

The almighty

white ravine
#

Theres more to fiends than just 'humanoid but evil', there's everything from abyssal chickens to hellwasps

#

Unholy beasts still classify as fiends after all

rancid lintel
white ravine
#

...I'd definitely say to no result but id also say itd kill the gnome and eat it long before that becomes an idea in its head

rancid lintel
#

Like how they make those orc demon hybrids

white ravine
#

Your trying to mix apples and seaweed at that rate

#

Whatever magic you use to combine the two, it would be in the most literal sense of combine.

rancid lintel
white ravine
#

Most important time someone tried doing that type of magic, chimeras were made.

#

Flesh warping and such.

rancid lintel
#

Ah I was talking about the priestess magic, where essentially they infuse a literal demon into a developing orc while in the womb and you get a neo-Tanarukk

#

Not to be confused with the OG tanarukks which were bred by elves at hellsgate from enslaved orcs and captured demons

white ravine
#

While thats true, abyssal chickens arent very much actual demons

#

Theyre more animals shot full of demonic power.

rancid lintel
#

Hm

#

Are vrok on the table for hybrids?

white ravine
#

Id say so, probably give some nasty disease resistance and rancid wings to whoever its blended into

rancid lintel
#

Plus the tail

#

So it seems the elves in actual D&D lore were really into making Hybrid’s with slave Races

#

And essentially, I wanted to see if I could make a dinosaurian species using nothing draconian or actually dinosaurian in nature

#

You know bc elvish Jurassic park, but with fiend gnomes grossly changed into demonic interpretations of dinosaurs

hazy grail
#

Magic the gathering

rancid lintel
hazy grail
rancid lintel
#

But yes, so demonic Elvish Jurassic park

#

For uh science

graceful jolt
#

I need some help coming up with a backstory for a minor villain, I know It doesnt matter that much but it helps understanding who the guy im running is

#

He is a half-orc ranger who is part of the kingdom's armed forces, he fights melee and wields double light hammers(with a returning enchantment).
He is a high ranking official and is member of a secret group from this kingdom which is essentially the 'black ops' division, the more shady part

#

Also, for reasons that are too complicated to explain, his backstory or current motivations have to be "fueled by hate".

#

does anybody have any suggestions? Im at a loss for ideas

lime holly
eager bay
#

@graceful jolt I would go with the noble family with years of service but a real minor noble house. Even in their 4th generation the king and the ruling circle have passed his family and brother over when it comes to arraigned marriages, shop locations, and rank promotion awards. Especially when loosing his left hand when rescuing the kings niece from would be blackmailing ransoming bandits.

unreal badger
#

Anyone able to help me im making a background on why my character and there half brother are in salt marsh they are chaotic nuteral and they also come from there own cult that worship the dread god there backstory so far is there father kills people and it gives there bloodline warlock powers.

I was gonna go with that they are seeking out a map that leads to the necronomicon but they get distracted and end up joining the current party but idk how that would fit tbh. Im quite new to dnd so idk backgrounds on places and stuff

stuck breach
#

That's a whole lot of worldbuilding, have you talked to your DM about this?

crimson vessel
#

Yo anyone down to help me finish up my characters background story? Been struggling on this for ages cuz i just don't know what to make for em

wind raft
#

What kind of character is it?

crimson vessel
#

He is a half orc half changeling (but he doesn't know about the changeling part) divine soul sorcerer / Tempest cleric

wind raft
#

Hmm

#

That’s a hard one to make a backstory for without knowing much about the setting

crimson vessel
#

Oh sorry

#

Decent into avernus

wind raft
#

Haven’t played decent into avernus sadly

#

Mostly stick to homebrew campaigns

crimson vessel
#

Its ok

#

I can make up a way to get there my problem is, how to write his story down

#

Cuz he looks like feirce deity link right so i don't know how uk a tribe of pure blooded orcs would react to him

iron saffron
crimson vessel
#

Well i am asking for a little help with orcs lore and stuff

#

Cuz idk much about em or how would they react in that kind of situation, plus i don't really know much about how u can get into avernus

iron saffron
#

Well, when you play the adventure it'll be revealed to you. Anything more is spoiler territory.

crimson vessel
#

Cuz ik how the main group gets there but im joining a few sessions in so its kinda harder for me to uk find a way in

iron saffron
#

You should talk to your DM on why your PC is there then.

crimson vessel
#

Eh fair but what about the whole orc thing

iron saffron
#

What about it? He's a half-orc / changeling. You make up his background.

crimson vessel
#

Yeah but i want it to be lore accurate as to how they would react, or can i really just make anything up?

stuck breach
#

If you're the DM, then yes, you can make up anything you want

crimson vessel
#

Im not ∠( ᐛ 」∠)＿

stuck breach
#

If you're a player, you can run what you make up by your DM.

crimson vessel
#

Aight guess I'll just text em or something about it

#

Thanks bois

eager bay
crimson vessel
#

Oh interesting

#

Thank u kind sir

unreal badger
eager bay
#

How close to fey would you say elves be?

#

like a rough percentage

wanton gale
#

At least that's how I do it in my campaigns.

eager bay
#

Maybe elves could have a shorter lifespan. Picture them more like RAW's half-elves

#

lifespan of something like 110-130 to our 70-90 is still pretty clear but not so much to make human/elf romances tragic

wanton gale
#

When comparing them to the Fey, yeah definitely. Especially after the old lore for them being "separated" from their God stuff eons ago.

eager bay
#

Dwarves could be roughly that lifespan too

unborn ibex
#

Humans irl have rarely lived to 110+, so it's almost possible

#

I feel like elves should be a good bit past that

#

Like 200+ makes their lifetimes actually distinct from ours

wanton gale
#

I generally use the LoTR route for Elves personally (I just like the "old elf still looks young trope"), bur yeah that's a decent idea overall.

eager bay
#

While eladrin can live for 500-700 years if not have proper eternal life (different from immortality)

wanton gale
#

Cause iirc RAW elves live for upwards of 800-ish years across all sub-races?

#

If you wanted to possibly give more Fey attuned elves, like the Eladrin, longer lives. You could probably safely double that 800-ish year lifespan to 1,600. Because I don't think Fey have an actual normal "lifespan" overall? I do so much homebrew stuff with my world that it's hard to remember RAW to my HB at this rate, lol.

#

But I hope it helps overall!

eager bay
#

I personally think longer lifespans only properly work if elves and dwarves be decidedly separated from us humans like in Tolkien's world, at least in terms of societal whatnot; they still are known to unite for certain causes.

wanton gale
#

Oh 100%

eager bay
#

110-130 years for the common kind (basically how I see wood elves), but then 500-700 for your high elves, basically your eladrin

wanton gale
#

Yeah that would seem fair enough to me.

wanton gale
eager bay
#

Half-furry in the sense they have more animalistic features than just ears and tail, but their body and features still be recognizably humanoid. Like Inukai from Flying Witch

wanton gale
#

I personally have mixed feeling about Beastkin. I like the idea, but I also would much rather just just a full Lycanthrope playable race (Werewolf/Raven/Rat/Ect). Also beastkin are fun cause of the "Uncanny Valley" effect you can yeet into your world with them if you so choose. They look "human" but are in fact, not and people get easily unsettled by them due to it.

eager bay
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Mind if I DM you something?

wanton gale
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Sure

lean moat
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Hey guys I need some help here, it’s more related to homebrew but there is a lot of story for it even if I try summarise and it’s lore oriented anyways

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I have a homwbrew DnD world set within a continent that went throw an all out war in 25th century between shortly saying magic only Union and tech only Union (all countries ended up choosing a side)

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And so while all the survivors were hiding in shelters for 230~300 years or still are hunkering down in them

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There is a tribal union called Eylon Coalition

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Their territories are some sort of anomalous green zone full of swamps and overgrowth situated on the edge of a HUGE explosion crater

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Right inbetween ecological dead zone at it’s centre and blizzard incased mountains further away from the rim

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Naturally gifted in magic people there started forming settlements way earlier then anyone and adapted to new climate better

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However remained isolated from any other survivors and didn’t have much access to intel data, tho did have access to abadoned and badly damaged withered structures and automatas or even entire crash sites preserved under the swamps

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Barely taking part in global trading, progress exchange (as there are huge gaps both in magic and technology with average level being that of 17th century) their territories are some sort of conservation area that no nation dares to attempt to colonise or take over

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As it’s nearly last green zone on entire continent

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However one thing they do on global map is allow scavengers and other adventurers explore their swamps for war time relics for huge amount of money

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I need some sort of commando forces for these guys that could act as a quick respond squad in case someone of said adventurers breaks local laws or if some criminal attempts to use these territories to hide

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Something rather magic oriented (I’d say inner magic like Sorcery) but also high tech

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And even tho this world was in development for a while and ran more then one game within it this combination of magic and tech I expect from these guys just doesn’t settle down in my mind

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Entire thing looks sort of… childish?

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If anyone had enough patience to read all that and has any thoughts to share please go ahead

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I already went throw several ideas myself and none seemed exactly right

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From high tech composite bow weilders like that of Omega from Star Wars: Bad Batch to literal native Americans in power armor

iron saffron
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You may want to post in #dm-discussion channel because this channel deals with official D&D settings lore.

lean moat
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well isn’t it for like any type of lore?

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Because this is HEAVILY lore oriented

iron saffron
lean moat
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Ah goddamnit

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Yeah I am blind

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Lol

iron saffron
lean moat
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Well then I guess I will retype it all and summarise better

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Aw man they really gotta add a channel to worldbuilding

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Not homebrew, worldbuilding as the story part, mostly affecting roleplaying aspect and setting

gleaming mesa
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Is there a dnd god equivalent of khorne?

wanton gale
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There is also Tempus, God of War from the Faerûnian pantheon if you want something closer to modern D&D.

stuck breach
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I'd say that the Demon Lords in general (Demogorgon, Orcus, etc.) are in a similar position to Warhammer's gods of chaos

wanton gale
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^ This as well if you're looking for something more "on brand" for the 40k Demon lords.

white ravine
left spindle
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there's also the Dead Three - the gods of darkness, murder, and death

outer apex
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none quite as violent though

lime holly
gleaming mesa
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Oof

fringe dagger
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I notice a lot of old Dragonlance artwork show the dragons with rather slim and simplistic bodies and sometimes with long necks.

If I were to make a 2D animated show with dragons in it, I feeling like using those body shapes.

hazy fox
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What about Khaine, the fantasy version?

covert island
sterile breach
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Fifteen years ago counts as way back? 💀

sudden niche
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nope

iron saffron
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Depends how old you are.

blissful umbra
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yes

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i was like.... a baby

iron saffron
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I have coworkers who were toddlers when I first started in the game industry. I'm old...

arctic perch
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Sup guys, I just wanted to ask if anyone could help create some ideas for my dnd villain. The setting doesn’t follow the classic magic system, instead about 50% of the population will have a power of sorts that they can use many more times than you could use a regular spell (think My Hero Academia for how that sort of thing works). I will get my party to roll a d20 and that will determine if they get a power or not, and if they do, they get the ability to select what power it is (I will be giving them drawbacks or nerfs to make sure they aren’t world breaking) but I just don’t know what sort of villain I want. I just feel like having a villain that just wants to conquer the world is a tad boring.

eager bay
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mix in the outdated tech of the rest of the world to the new organic tech that has roots in the deep swamps where new forms of life were found living in the old war tech, and the green zone warriors could used their magic to communicate with the bugs of the swamp that have been made into hybrid organic/synthetic computing symbiosis. using the symbiosis as a way to extend their own vision and senses and eventuality synthesizing the basic forms to control.

lime holly
arctic perch
languid vector
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Hey y'all. I'm about to multiclass an orphaned half elf paladin/cleric who was raised in a temple of Corellon, but is basically discovering that her calling is coming from Sehanine Moonbow, the lunar goddess. I've been looking up lore online and see that one of the big things for her is being against necromancy and the creation of the undead, except in very rare circumstances. This is going to play a lot into my role playing for this character, and I was curious about how far I should take this. Should I avoid all spells that deal necrotic damage or resurrect the dead, even if they're in my party? I'm fully prepared to play that way, but I doubt my party would appreciate it very much, especially if it means that Revivify or Spare the Dying are off the table. Gentle Repose seems like it would be okay. Thoughts?

normal cipher
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The difficulty with Necromancy often is that people write it off as summoning skeletons and the don't look back to it. The necromancy spell list has more to do with the energy of life than just undeath. Many spells in the school are pretty crazy damage spells (Inflict wounds does pretty good damage, and I love Ray of Enfeeblement), and the revival spells are a cliché clerics bread and butter at this point. I'd limit your character's hatred towards undeath to just that: hatred towards undeath. Necromancy is too broad a school to bully your players out of just because it also includes summoning skeletons.
It'd be like banning all medicine because you don't like vitamin supplements. You'd be disliking such a small part of the large picture that it doesn't make sense to blame it all.
Of course, if your party's ok with it by all means do it, but if you want to go into the game without telling your fellow adventurers about this, I'd play it a bit more careful

languid vector
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I found a wiki for Forgotten realms, and this is what it says: "She hated undead and her followers made it their duty to destroy these beings. She was intolerant towards necromancy in general with the sole exceptions being the practice of white necromancy (only tolerated) and the creation of baelnorn liches, which she wouldn't tolerate if it was not necessary."

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So what I'm hearing you say (and correct me if I'm wrong) that there is white necromancy, and I shouldn't hesitate to use it.

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Is there an authoritative interpretation of which spells count as white necromancy and which don't? Or is that more based on intentions?

normal cipher
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It's pretty intention-based, I'd say, but whether it's judged by morals or authority very much depends on the world and is something you'd have to talk about with your DM. Consider with them what categorises "white necromancy" and how your character learned its differences to traditional necromancy, and what their own views are. Maybe the religious institutes of the god decide what's white and what's traditional, Idk

languid vector
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Okay. Because the journey the character is on is going to be one of trying to figure this out without much help from anyone else. This could be a really interesting thing to explore with the character, and it sounds like that's a decision I get to make with the DM. Thanks for helping to talk me through it 🙂

normal cipher
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No problem. I like these kind of discussions. Your character sounds very interesting

languid vector
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I'm very excited to play her. The DM really likes her too.

normal cipher
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Makes sense. She sounds pretty well-written and has plenty of room to change and grow because of the events of a campaign. DMs always love a character that dynamically changes because of their plot and the players' actions

main palm
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i have a question about liches, do they have a hierarchy?

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like an elder lich, an arch lich stuff like that, and what do liches think of each other?

white ravine
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Generally, liches hate each other by default. When your so self absorbed that you drink poison and die just to avoid the consequences of death, liches quickly turn on one another if their interests are not identical.

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Main 'hierarchy' would simply be oldest and/or most powerful.

main palm
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@white ravine thank you for the info, i have a question would liches work with each other for mutual interests sometimes?

white ravine
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I cannot emphasize this next word enough.

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RARELY.

spark haven
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If they did, I suspect it would have to almost be under duress, a situation like "The God of Death walks the planet and has called his servants to their final task"

silent timber
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Well, Thay has a heierarchy of liches under Szass Tam. There is constant scheming, to be sure.

static oracle
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Thay is so cool.

burnt iron
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I still remember a point in the Age of Worms campaign (one of the first campaigns written by the group that would eventually become Paizo, published in Dungeon Magazine for 3.5E) late in the campaign where there was one encounter where the PCs faced like half a dozen liches all at the same time. At the end of the encounter, one of the players was like "We just fought half a dozen of the world's most terrifying undead wizards all together." and the entire table stopped and marveled at how far they'd come.

analog oxide
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that sounds wild... was there some plot device to help vs the liches or it was a true straight up fight?

burnt iron
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Straight up fight. The PCs by that point were very like 20th level I think

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It was right near the end of the campaign

analog oxide
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wild

eager bay
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How common would you say each spell level be? Maybe Lv1-5 be what most magi and wizards be able to cast

burnt iron
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Depends a lot on the world. In a high magic world like Forgotten Realms it wouldn't be unusual to find wizards able to cast mid-level spells, especially in cities. Each large city probably has at least one high level caster. Wouldn't be every day you'd see that kind of wizard though. Most probably don't cast higher than level 3 spells or so

eager bay
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I guess it'd be better to ask about what percentage be able to use arcane magic in the world, at least among humans.

burnt iron
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Then probably your average village wizard/witch would be about to cast just 1st or 2nd level spells (with the odd exception like the former court mage who ran away from the capital with a price on their head and his hiding in the butt end of nowhere hoping they don't get found). In cities and larger population centers you're looking at seeing mages who cast 3rd level spells, maybe fourth. Big metropolises probably have a single high-level caster that everyone's heard of but few people ever really get to meet (they're busy, they've got things to do) and a handful of wizards below them who can cast in the 5-6 range

eager bay
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Is Lv6 or 7 a good spell level cap?

burnt iron
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I'd go with 7 just to make things interesting. There might be like one or two higher level casters out there somewhere in the world, legendary figures who people only know as rumored heroes or monsters

eager bay
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Works better for a hard Vancian magic style I figure

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maybe instead of preparing spell slots, prepare up to X number of spells per day

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and no cantrips ofc

burnt iron
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Like older editions? Could work.

eager bay
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For example, your average human can prepare up to 1-2 spells, most magi around 2-4, and proper wizards up to like 6-9

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@burnt iron ye?

iron saffron
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There are more lower level spellcasters around than higher level spellcasters. The average village may have an acolyte as a healer or an apprentice. Bigger towns will have higher level spellcasters. The largest cities will have archmages.

I think past DMGs lists out the average number of NPCs of certain levels based on the settlement size.

eager bay
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I don't have the DMG on hand, but if you have it, show me

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for low, standard, and high magic ofc

burnt iron
eager bay
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Yeah, finding the spellbooks is the thing for arcane

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and then different with clerical and druidic

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@iron saffron How many spellcasting NPCs would you have?

iron saffron
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Depends on the size of the town.

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Again, take a look at past DMGs (I don't recall which one) that suggests the number of NPCs with class levels.

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My memory on the specific details of the editions is blurred (I'm at the office today and don't have access to my books)

spark haven
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And when I say spell,I just mean the free time and whatever innate characteristics contribute to more powerful casting to cast them

loud karma
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Im wondering if there is a sword&magic fantasy setting entirely based on real world?

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Like, one day in year 1357 on earth

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Suddenly magics are real and monster appeared from other worlds like those in Witcher universe

burnt iron
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There are settings like that, absolutely, though I can't name any D&D ones off the top of my head

loud karma
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Well, don’t have to be dnd ones, surely I can put it into good use