tank-balance-discussion

[nimble zodiac]

Well, I guess I'll have to pull offense too, defending IS-7 isn't relevant anyways

A joke doesn't support an argument =(

@sudden path to be fair every tank needs support to not get pushed :p

@winged barn based on the gun, E3 is OP too

[sudden path]

Look yes you have the armor to frontline, but you have such bad traverse and hitpoints that in a brawl you die fast
You are very vunerable
When you frontline in the e3 you count on teams for support so you dont get pushed
Some tanks have turrets so they can actually defend themselves when their enemy isnt in front of them

[winged barn]

So the conclusion we have come to is the e4 makes armor irrelevant.

E4 op

[twin egret]

I'd rather play T30 over E4 imo, fully traversable turret, same guns, turret is better?

[quasi axle]

E4 has a better gun

[warm idol]

either buff the 260 turret a tiny bit or buff the two upper plate to be like the is7 thanks.

[nimble zodiac]

But we don't want another IS-7

[stray verge]

E4 uses the same gun but on a turret and worse aim time, pen, dpm, and shell velo is the same

[twin egret]

E4 should have a better gun

[quasi axle]

E4 does not have the same gun, E4 has better pen

[nimble zodiac]

Ok let's stop

@mental pasture I believe in terms of balance, "same guns" are not defined by name, unless their stats are the same

[mental pasture]

Guys, it'd better to check the gun's name before saying "it's the same gun" or "it's not", sometimes WG just changed the pen values because yes

Understandable, even tho, penetration and ballistic vallues aren't what defines a gun as "it's the same gun", but ok, blitz is far away from irl @MS-1#1707

[twin egret]

buff FV215b xd

[stray verge]

When wil, IS-4, E5 or Kran get a buff? They are totally not meta tanks that people spam in rating or tournaments.

[nimble zodiac]

=)

[quasi axle]

No people spam op tier 8 premiums or waffle or Emil for rating smh

[twin egret]

I swear the FV215b feels so useless most of the time it's annoying
Most great battles now feel like pure luck now

@nimble zodiac it is NOT difficult

[nimble zodiac]

Though it isn’t, it simply is difficult to use

I should have typed armor-wise

[daring compass]

I feel like 215b is good, I don't have it, but I've seen plenty of people just delete the Reds.

[gritty crescent]

isnt 215b a med killed

[fallow eagle]

Only good players do good in fv215b

[thick wharf]

fv215b is my favorite tank in the game

gun is amazing all around
turret is beefy af besides the cupola
maneuverability is insane for a heavy tank
mega speed boost and sandbags
it’s just a huge skill cannon

[twin egret]

Turret isn't beefy, maneuverability is on par, nothing special, sandbag armour pretty much removed its chances of getting a proper Heavy HP buff, Gun barely isn't that special anymore

[nimble zodiac]

It's special =(

[twin egret]

special at being meh lol

[nimble zodiac]

The DPM doe, and the HE, and the gimmicky reactive armor n speed

[mental pasture]

I bet that E5 will get a buff once again one day, apparently WG wants to make american heavies as noob-friendly as possible.

[tepid latch]

215b is fine as is. Skill needed to do well.

[twin egret]

A lot of heavies have more HP than it or comparable HP to it, it can out DPM, but a bunch of tanks have enough armour or alpha damage to just put the FV215b in a losing state. A lot of meds can outspot the FV215b and either out DPM it or surprise it. Lights? don't even bother asking lol, FV215b would need to pull some cheeky stuff. TDs just... could be the only class that is the fairest to the FV215b.

[nimble zodiac]

The out-spotting the 215b is a thing, but the HP vs DPM ratio is in 215b's favor vs mediums

Besides, what allows the other heavies to not get out-played by mediums with your way?

[twin egret]

Armour, HP, Alpha dmg, damage outburst. HP sure, but there's the T-62A and E50 M that reach 2000 hp, but it only roughly takes 1-2 shots without being punished to equal the HP .

[nimble zodiac]

Well, the 215b is in no need of a buff

[twin egret]

I think it does honestly, side armour buff will actually make it good at least, what's the point of having those 254mm plates if they're basically useless? Tracks barely do anything, same with spaced armour, when the tank is angled

[nimble zodiac]

If any buff, those 254 sides should be a nice 300+, but that’s it, just for some sidescraping, that gimmick should be all it gets

[distant river]

Unless you are in a grille running reticle calibration good luck penning an E3. You can flank it sure but you just sacrifice positions and hp. You try seeing how effective your dpm is against a hulldown E3 and tell me how it goes. If you don't rely on the E3s armour then there's no use in using the tank. Warthunder funnily enough is a totally different game (who'd have thought it???) and advice doesn't apply here in the slightest. But anyway you try killing a totally stationary hulldown E3 from the front and tell me how it goes, then go try kill an E3 that can wiggle and bait. I'd love to hear how reliable it's armour is then.

[fallow eagle]

Are meds going to be buffed anytime soon?

[twin egret]

no need to be, could be used as bait, plus once you fired just use your gun (that adds 50mm kek) to cover/block that spot

[nimble zodiac]

But you JUST bashed their existence :(

[twin egret]

armour behind the tracks should match the armour above it (the 104mm plate)

[nimble zodiac]

I mean if it isn’t at autobounce it will be penetrated anyways, even at 104mm

[twin egret]

well not really, but you can at least poke out better when side scraping while not having to expose your front hull

104mm is enough to the point you can angle it and not get penned through even if it's a bit outside of the autobounce zone

you can test this with the super conqueror, it has 104mm sides, and they are flat, angle it so it isn't an auto bounce, and you can see its enough

[true spindle]

is it the E-100 no match against IS-7 or is it me dumb?

[twin egret]

who was playing the tank specifically

I think E 100 would've most likely be the victor when faced against an IS-7 but idk

[nimble zodiac]

We'll be generous, and assume normalization accounts at a 70 degree impact point, so for AP, 104mm would be calculated at 65 degrees effective, leaving that plate to be as effective as 246mm, which is a favorable penetration for all AP standard heavies, and the plate would be 277mm effective vs APCR, which would send WZ-113, Kranvagn, Chieftain Mk. 6, and Obj. 260's shells flying away. Yes, it will bounce a few shells, but that's calculated against 70 degrees, and going further down would increase those chances of penetration

[unique scaffold]

i just realized u being sarcastic. But yeah. They should buff is4s weak armor. And remove all weak spots from the E5.

[graceful totem]

Fix ghost shells

[drowsy plaza]

Ghost shells are rarely a WG issue. They are caused by issues related to your route to the server. Ping and Packet loss. You simply didn’t fire where the enemy was in reality (as opposed to what you/your device though), or the packet with the shell being fired didn’t get to the server. Not a balance issue.

[maiden iron]

just leave the game

[graceful totem]

I didnt had ghost shells in 2015-2019 era

[nimble zodiac]

Ah, technology ages

[drowsy plaza]

@graceful totem and the internet wasn’t nearly as saturated then as it is today. It’s not a balance issue either way - so run PingPlotter or a similar tracer route program and take it to your regions specific technical issues area

[haughty abyss]

Why I can't install world of tanks on my PC ?
Maybe someone have this problem ?
Pls help.

[autumn zodiac]

@haughty abyss try asking here, this is the mobile game

https://discord.gg/Zgqs5eFm

[haughty abyss]

They don't want help me xD.
There it says "App is incompatible with device version" I have Windows 10. It's all about blitz.

[nimble zodiac]

Oof, you’re doing it through Steam I suppose?

[autumn zodiac]

@haughty abyss you do have to specify in the future mind you because World of Tanks is its own game

[haughty abyss]

Nope. I'm doing this through Microsoft Store

[rocky jolt]

how to update MS Store Apps: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/account-billing/fix-problems-with-apps-from-microsoft-store-93ed0bcf-9c12-3df6-6dda-92ec5d0415ac

[haughty abyss]

Thanks, I will try to fix it

[drowsy plaza]

Maybe ask somewhere relevant next time? I mean how would you think this is a balance issue?

[craggy kayak]

Today I come to complain not about the pairing, but about how the heavy tankrole works, since that version in which the general life of the heavyweights was increased, they became superior to any tank, a super heavy like the JG.E100 cannot cope with it to the E100 due to the fact that it does not have the same resistance, and so is the imbalance, all the heavy ones are higher

[twin egret]

just put on enhanced armour to boost it to 110mm, You'll be seeing around 260-270

[mental pasture]

I tend to agree nowadays, but I used to disagree with this.

I just noticed that the only TDs capable of beating heavies are a few super heavies TDs (T110E3 and Badger in a hull down position) or if the enemy keeps getting spotted and also won't find the TD (basically, only camper tanks with decent concealmemt)

[scarlet fjord]

can someone give me an answer as to why Wargaming find it difficult to just nerf IS-4 and E5 already

[real bison]

Then how would you nerf them?

[scarlet fjord]

i would remove all special consumables from the E5 and nerf the HEAT pen from 340 to probably 320
i would nerf IS-4 hit points from 2650 to 2500 or even less than that i would also nerf the mobility on the IS-4 its way too fast for how capable it is
just an idea though it could be many other things instead like nerfing IS-4 turret by making the cheeks bigger its turret is too strong or nerfing E5's frontall hull armor since its a hull down tank and by frontal hull i mean to make the upper part of the lower plate as weak as the lower part

[real bison]

special consumables and prammo pen? Sure, I could maybe get behind that

All the other nerfs? Nope

Heavy tanks shouldn’t really be able to pen as much as some TDs

[mental pasture]

I would want some nerfs on those two, but way more simple nerfs.

T110E5:
-Lower the HEAT pen ammount to 325mm pen, in order to decrease the number of vehicles with the classic "340mm HEAT + CS"

• Remove the Improved Engine Power Boost and Reactive armor.

IS-4:

• Lower the HEAT pen ammount to 325mm pen, in order to make IS-7 gun look a little more relevant and decrease the number of vehicles with the classic "340mm HEAT + CS"
• Lower the HP to 2500
• Lower the Effective powe ratio from the 3 different types of ground by 1 in order to balance the very good hull and almost impenetrable turret.

Also, I don't see why making the hull of T110E5 worse once you already can penetrate the turret by the cheeks and cupola with prammo (also with AP sometimes), the hull is also kinda "ez pen too", just trollish sometimes.

[stray verge]

I do not agree with the heat nerfs, its simply that calibrated needs to go.

Calibrated shells either brings nothing compared to rammer or brings HESH or HEAT pen to ludicrous levels

[unique scaffold]

All heavy tanks:
-nerf view range
-nerf dpm
They’re for taking damage right? Let meds do the rest.

[mental pasture]

@stray verge I agree with you, but it's way easier to just nerf the HEAT pen. All the ideas that I've seen to change CS are extremely controversial so just nerfing the HEAT pen causes way less problems.

@unique scaffold I always liked the idea to nerf heavies view range, but nerfing even the DPM? That's too much.

[tepid latch]

U don’t even use heat in pubs lmao it won’t solve anything

[mental pasture]

Excuse-me? How don't you use prammo in pubs? @tepid latch
(Also, what the heck is this nametag?)

[winged barn]

Prammo is for noobs. Real men use HE only

[dense walrus]

fwiw the DPM difference between meds and heavies is less than 100, but heavies have about 400 more HP on average. Balance.
(Tier 8)

[mental pasture]

Understandable, maybe some DPM changes in some heavies is fine, but not for all of them. I mean, I wouldn't mind a DPM nerf in a KV-4, VK 100, T32 (only to fight agaisnt the unnecessary buffs), T29 (same reason), etc. But in other heavies like Löwe (it don't get nerfs anyways, lol) or... nevermind, the only objection thay I have is about a premium. Premiums don't get nerfs anyways.

Ah, there's also that useless Vk 45.03 which is the most useless heavy, but... nevermind, it's also a premium...
Ah yeah, that french tier 7 heavy wannabe, that don't deserve a nerf. Looking only in tier 7-8 it's veru understandable.

[scarlet fjord]

not just calibrated
340 HEAT is still too much pen
and you think u dont use HEAT in pubs?
ppl spam HEAT in pubs idk what ur thinking lol

[turbid smelt]

i guess na-nerds don't use it

[winged barn]

I personally think that if they refuse to nerf premiums, they should also refuse to buff them.

[mental pasture]

I tend to agree, but with only one change before this: Make FCM 50t at least something useful.

After this, then the "no more premium stat changes" can go fine

[quasi axle]

Ppl on na use prammo

[sudden path]

That's just bc tier 8 meds suck and the ones that dont have high alpha or a clip
Tier x is more balanced in this respect, the average heavy(e5) has 2.8k dpm with a rammer and an average med(stb) has 3.2k
So 400 dmg
Doesnt make up for the 1k hitpoint difference in some cases

[winged barn]

When a heavy is focused on the med, the med is almost going to require prammo, killing even the dpm advantage.
Armor? Nope. Firepower? Nope. Mobility? Not nearly enough of a difference.

I remember I lost to a t22 in my is4 once.

Oh yea, I was at 700 hp, the t22 was full health. I brought the t22 down to a 1 shot. The t22 was a competent player. There was no outside influence.

I honestly feel really bad when I take a heavy to the medium's side. Its disgusting. What are they going to do, turn and run at full speed? Even if they escape, they get heavily farmed.

[mental pasture]

T110E5 without sandbags have 2300 HP and STB 1850. T110E5 have 450 HP more than STB and STB have around 400 more DPM than E5.
Both don't need prammo to penetrate each other.

Between those two I see no discrepancy between the DPM and HP relation, but when we try a STB vs Maus or IS-4.......

T22 may be a very good medium (and arguably OP), but every giant have it's own weakness.
I must pay respect to that T22 medium.

[mental pasture]

I'd want to remember this history when I get a 1 vs 1 situation with a super heavy against a med.
I'd get a "unsupportive conduct" complain but at least the medium would have a deserved win, It's about being fair with the enemy knowing that he/she wouldn't do the same for you.

Unless if the enemy is a tryhard, then he must suffer.

[fallow eagle]

I mentioned the calibrated shells question months ago
Replace calibrated shells equipment with some other equipment for heavies

Also yea, it isn't fun fighting heavies in t10 that rush to meds side when you're playing medium

[minor minnow]

It’s an interesting statement but it means nothing when you don’t give any possible replacement

[fallow eagle]

Rotational mechanism?
For better turret traverse(not alot)

[nimble zodiac]

It has to be for the gun, and all I have thought of was damage, but that's a bit crazy

Oh my lort I jus thought of this, a gun movement buffing equipment. The gun for TDs will move up/down/sideways faster, and for heavies it moves up and down a bit more quickly than TDs. To be fair tho it seems kind of useless

[twin egret]

bad T-22 player ;3

[mental pasture]

I mean, it's not that useless in a decent %, mostly for super heavies with a SLOOOOW turret like Maus or E100. I'd accept this in order to defeat the 374mm HEAT pen dictatorship.

I'm not going to defend it blindly like last time because seems extremely situational and not that good, but good enough to replace the evil...

[nimble zodiac]

Well I wasn't really including turret traverse, but hey, sure I guess, I just wanted to make sure it was for the gun like CS was

[mental pasture]

I mean, turret transverse affects indirectly the firepower once you'll have less delay to aim and fire.

That'd be a bit more dangerous for lights while circling vehicles but it shouldn't affect much once it can't be a large effect.

[twin egret]

WG should really add those hidden values with the statistics page on tanks on a seperate slide, we can figure out how fast it takes to depress/elevate the gun, or move it left and right

[scarlet fjord]

WG should really nerf 340 HEAT

[nimble zodiac]

Or not let heavies have the +10% CS pen for HEAT

[scarlet fjord]

both

[twin egret]

have the heavies have less HP by a bit, or increase medium, TD, and light tank HP
I think heavy HP nerf is better imo
its blitz afterall, short, fast games

[sharp saddle]

I also think they can keep the heavy HP, but give heavies in general a view range nerf. Heavies can just so easily spot for themselves and such

[scarlet fjord]

their view ranges are great
but nerfing their view ranges is hard to balance
specially with Vickers around
maybe a little small nerf but still nerf the broken TD level pen

[twin egret]

No, keep the TD pen, they're basically deterrants for heavy tanks, nerfing the Heavy view range seems like a great idea ngl, though each heavy's view range should differ in the amount of distance for view range lost. Maus & E 100 would be hit the hardest in view range, but glass-cannon, heavium heavies won't be as much, or ust left untouched. CS should be removed for heavies that have high HEAT pen, and maybe replaced with...hmm... what about something that increases alpha damage,, but decreases penetration?

[scarlet fjord]

heavies 374 HEAT nonsense needs nerfing they just grab double IS-4 on any map and spam it at the enemy heavies they beat pretty much everything they face unless its maybe an M4 54

[twin egret]

wdym if it's an M4 54, ig when it's huldown yeah, but aren't the cupolas still visible? even when the full -10 is used? "Russian Bias" knows no bounds and the cupolas wil get it effortlessly, upper plate should be easily HEAT-able rightt? straight on

[scarlet fjord]

its like 1 pixel sized cupola when maxed out gun depression at -8
and it has 480 alpha vs your inferior armor and 420 alpha
and no upper glacis plate is 400+

[twin egret]

cringe, still pens anyways

[mental pasture]

Pfff, why play mediums anyways? You have 1/3 more health than those meds, only 10 less views range and your camouflage rating don't actually matters once you can block shots anyways.

There's a few MBTs in this game, and they're among heavies

[real bison]

MBT heavies:

Chieftain

MBT mediums:

Centurion 1, Centurion 7/1, T-54, T-62A, M46 Patton, M48 Patton, M60, Leopard 1, AMX 30B

[scarlet fjord]

mediums can spot and relocate quickly if they flank enemy heavies they are screwed not irrelevant your probably just a heavy main or something

[mental pasture]

@real bison Can those MBTs be real MBTs? Maybe T-54, but what about T110E5?
Let's check the facts.

• It have enough view range to spot, being only 10 points less than the usualy medium
• Decent speed + engine boost
• Trustworthy cannon that can penetrate every enemy
• Good armor in turret and not a bad hull, which allows the tank to fight in multiple situations
• HP ammount allows the vehicle to don't fear a good number of enemies, mostly when with reactive armor.

It makes multiple roles ans works fine for a lot of situations (even in sittuations that it's not supposed to do). Isn't that what MBTs do?
I'm not saying that it's an MBT irl, but in blitz it indeed makes this role way better than the actual MBTs

Let's take IS-4 example now. @scarlet fjord IS-4, unlike the E5, don't have the OP consumables but have way more HP, armor and it deals much better in open areas.
Mediums can realocate and flank, but what if an IS-4 do it? Let's not forget that this tank isn't the exact definition of slow (it's actually fast for it's bulky armor.

Basically, everything a medium can do, a heavy probably will do better.

[placid kestrel]

Imagine Leopard PTA 8dgr gun dep. #buff LeopardPTA

[autumn zodiac]

Heavies can also spot pretty well because they only have a small reduction to the Coated Optics bonus

[fallow raptor]

Kpfpz 70 is an mbt too

[scarlet fjord]

my point being meds can turn around and immediately start relocating while IS-4 or any other heavy except maybe tanks like E5 or IS-7 in certain terrain although both are situational as E5 needs speed boost ready IS-7 needs nice terrain
and when meds flank you they offer huge dpm on the table a 62a or 121 can rip you apart and sidehug you while heavies are too sluggish for maneuvers like that and for the spotting argument meds may have similar view range to heavies but they have smaller profiles and better camos harder to spot and easier to put in cover
E5 is a better med in eveey way while having op speed boost tho but it has flaws like limited repairs so u can harass with module damage

[mental pasture]

On no, it's not only E5, IS-4 and and IS-7. If you want me to list all the possible heavies that can do the same job of a medium and the reason, then we'll get a real big list.

Allow me to list just more 5 tier 10 for now:

• Chieftain
• WZ 131
• Kranvagn
• AMX M4 mle. 54
• Obj 260.

Their guns are powerful enough to deal with multiple enemies at medium range, they can dk hull down, spot, flank, etc

@NoMercies#5243 Why mobility? E50M and T22 aren't know to be mobile tho. It stills enough to flank enemies.
Yes, but it stills possible to flank
But if you're not satisfied then let's change for AMX 50B, just a worse turret, but it have the DPM and the speed that you wanted

[quasi axle]

Kran what
Kran doesn't have the dpm or mobilit
Bruh you can't compare a kran to a t22 or an e50m both of them are miles faster

[foggy aurora]

Kranvagn can’t do the job of a medium as it doesn’t have the mobility
There’s a difference between 30kph top speed (kranvagn)and 65kph (e-50m) and 56kph (t-22)

[fallow eagle]

The m-vi-yoh coming to the game is also fast probably

[turbid smelt]

...they are slow

[mental pasture]

@quasi axle @foggy aurora Ok then, chage it for AMX 50b

@turbid smelt 35km/h and a decent acceleration, I kinda will get surprised if it also have the engine boost. That's enough to surprise enemies in a flank.

T110E5, T57 Heavy, M VI Yoh, T95E6, IS-4, IS-7, Obj. 260, Fv 215B, Chieftain, WZ 113, WZ 111 5A, AMX 50b and AMX M4 mle. 54

Also, Kranvagn have the improved engine boost. For about 15 seconds it becomes a T110E5 but auto reloader.

[craggy kayak]

Krang can't push, low dpm

[unique scaffold]

Pls nerv obj.252U armor.280mm is to much for a t8.not even a t10 has that much armor

[vital basalt]

its a premium you know,so saying nerf 252u is literally meaningless

[scarlet fjord]

those are not medium level heavy tanks except the obj 260 and M4 54 which are extremely difficult to come by anyway 113 has serious traverse issues which meds can harass even if your a skilled 113 player and try to put urself in situations where ur traverse is hard to harass its still a flaw you can abuse regardless of the situation the only tank that can be a true medium tank is the 260 and E5 and the E5 can only do that with the speed boost on for relocating which as i said earlier is a flaw for multiple reasons
heavies are fast over long distance but short flanks that take seconds to execute and be flexible they cant really do that well i forgot to mention 50B ok that is a perfect medium tank with a TD gun to be honest better than the E5 even but its armorless so still has a flaw its slightly troll vs bad players if u wiggle but its unreliable as i said a 121 and a 62a STB-1 etc meds like these are kinda sorta still viable but heavies do need some nerfing
when i say better than E5 i meant as in better at the medium role at least imo cuz its way faster

[mental pasture]

113 still can flank due to it's medium tank speed, block shots and even spot. Bad transverse? No big deal. You can still do the medium tank job even if you won't be able to fight other mediums at very close range.

Yes, I agree tottaly about the E5's speed booster. It have even if it's not supposed to have it.

Same opinion abour AMX 50B.

But anyways, Chieftain, T95E6, WZ 111 A5, and even more are still able to do the medium tank role, mostly Chieftain.
I basically believe that in the current situation of the meta, whatever a medium tank does, there will be a heavy tank that does it 10× better.

[slim trellis]

kpf70 needs he buff

[leaden flare]

Yep gib moar HE dmg

[scarlet fjord]

@mental pasturemy strength as a player is angling armor but i do value the nimbleness of meds a lot and how flexible they can be heavies are no doubt better in general just saying meds can do the flanking job much better thats actually the reason for T22 spam in tourneys but they can bounce shells so still heavy meta oriented
hitpoints need nerfing and heavies need pen nerf on some tankss that have 340 HEAT or 336 or whatever except for tanks like 57 heavy which are TD style guns and dont have armor much
then meds can be very much viable

[unique scaffold]

The problem with is4. And e5. That wargaming kept removing their weak spots. And buffing the armor. While not balancing it out with any other characteristic. So u have ur self tanks that can do any role in the battlefield. I hate when they remove weak spots from tanks. Makes no sense that u have to use Premium to penetrate other tanks when fighting face to face. And also nerfed medium tanks pen and buffed heavies health to oblivion !!! Is4 and e5 those two specially can do anything. Bounce shots. Decent dpm (atleast for a heavy ) high pen - great accuracy. Workable gun depression - crazy armour with little to no weak spots ! (Is4 op turret and hull and sides and small lowerplate thats also angled - e5 upper plate nearly invincible /lower plate small and angled and u can hide it completely by using the -8 degrees gun depression. / turret used to have weak spots like cheeks and coupola they removed the big cupola and buffed the cheeks ) not to mention both tanks got the maneuverability that can make em go anywhere they need no problem + no other medium tank can really circle them and as a cherry on top. E5 got this consumable that literally givea it medium tanks speed.

[nimble zodiac]

Literally no part of the 252U is 280mm thick

[scarlet fjord]

E5 literally has medium tank power to weight ratio with op consumable on
this baffles me plus it buffs its top speed for 15 seconds to practically medium tank mobility and 15 seconds is just the amount of time you need to relocate/flank

[distant river]

And you can use equipment to get 19.5 seconds of boost. With the 90 sec cooldown it works almost perfectly in games. 20 sec at the start to get to a good position before the reds, 90 seconds of holding/trading/farming etc then it's normally about time to push or rotate and you have another 20 seconds of mobility

[scarlet fjord]

i think they should remove those things from every line except FV4005 line so it has that uniqueness and their work wont go down the drain
they started implementing them to give a little diversity but that backfired cuz it affected the balance

[turbid smelt]

@winged barn maus needs anti gravity jump from gravity force so it could truly perform in regular battles and tourneys

4005 doesn't need them
they don't even deserve spall liners
let players learn to play tanks with no armour
instead of baby proofing everything

xd

[distant river]

But how will I play my paper TD if I can be HEd properly?????

It's clearly too hard for me to use my brain :'(

[winged barn]

I still sometimes die in maus. I think it needs turret cheeks and/or hp pool buffed

[full token]

Wg could start by not adding consumables to an entire line just because one tank in it was weak

[scarlet fjord]

honestly i forgot about spall liner i was actually thinking about the op speed boost reticle calibration etc

[terse tangle]

Annhilator is too OP the game is unplayable with this tank

[full token]

Seems WG doesnt think its causing enough harm to the game, so they wont bother nerfing it

[unique scaffold]

The only thing that sucks on the anihilator is the improved engine power

[full token]

Its op even without that

[twin egret]

Type 61 is an MBT

[twin egret]

that sounds similar to what the Grille 15 would say lol (Yes, get rid of spall liner from our Rival tech tree counterpart, they do not deserve it)

[edgy crag]

annis usually only pen 1 shot on me when i'm playing something like the is2 1945

[minor minnow]

As a matter of fact so is the STB

[twin egret]

why can HEAT just pen the FV215b cupola like nothing just wth, then there's that dumb view port weakspot

[nimble zodiac]

It has to hit the weakspot tho to pen

[mental pasture]

I agree in parts with this, but in an overall, yes. You're undeniably right.

[twin egret]

I want my old FV215b back, the OG 6.9 reload, more accurate FV, not this cringe 7.3 reload

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, the OP

Hehe MS-1 cracked

[twin egret]

OP to new players (looking at you, Mr. T-22. Cheftain, wit 100 battles)

[nimble zodiac]

So we gonna wait until milanmrlian revives the chat or what?

[remote oriole]

Yes

[robust sparrow]

4005 have spall liners?

[turbid smelt]

yes
the entire td line has it

[unique scaffold]

cant WG make premium t8 cheaper? Or dumb as they cant think about ppl who cant use real money

[dreamy oar]

Premiums are meant to be a source of revenue (money) for WG

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold again nothing to do with balance

[leaden flare]

There need to be some serious changes to some maps imo
dead Rails is just a TD paradise which makes the gameplay for meds even more horrible then it is rn its way to common that the whole map is locked down so that you cant flank around and you have to take trades which in a light or med arent any good for you

[unique scaffold]

lol someone who doesnt understand english here

[quasi axle]

That doesn't have to do with balance tho

[unique scaffold]

balancing prices for prem tanks duh... also didnt ask for normal player to react

[quasi axle]

You don't need to ask for my opinion for me to be able to reply 🤡

[leaden flare]

the edgy kid acting up i see
if you cant afford prem -> work
if youre lazy --> watch ads and stop crying
prem tank prices arent that bad for decent ones

• day 1 release prem always will be expensive

[mental pasture]

You can get premiums without wasting a penny. Complaining about lack of money to buy premium tanks is... rather selfish. WG needs to make money, better selling an overpriced tank than selling it in crates.

[jagged crescent]

Lol I can pen the cupola with normal shells too. Small weak spot tho so u gotta wiggle

[drowsy plaza]

Well I guess the bot self selected

[west storm]

How about Intro a "Top Damage" per game Medal/certificate , To seperate the Players from the "Tactically Inept"??

[quasi axle]

High caliber exists

[twin egret]

are you using Ho-Ri AP shells or something to pen? I'm taking about the sloped/slanted 152mm part of the cupola that HEAT just does not care about

[west storm]

I know, though a distinctive 'Metric" other than a 'Mention" would be a Visible and common reference for players ability, instead of WR!

[quasi axle]

Why don't you just look at wr...?

[jagged crescent]

Huh. Now I know a new weak spot

[twin egret]

I blame cupola adjustment change that happened in 6. something

[unique scaffold]

Same

[distant river]

Because people who sit at the back and farm all game like to think they are good even though they aren't actually doing anything useful. Top damage means nothing if it isn't useful damage 🤷‍♀️

[quasi axle]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[drowsy plaza]

But I got MoAr DaMaGe 🤪

[twin egret]

it's some contribution

[drowsy plaza]

The 183 that lands a 1,500 HESH after his team died. That wasn’t contributing to his team.

[twin egret]

ah yes, ignore the other 3 HESH shots he landed earlier in the game, just focus on the one 1,500 HESH shell

[scarlet fjord]

i like how that tank can do half your average damage in 1 second

[mental pasture]

Incredible wisdom.

[twin egret]

average damage for which tier though 🤔, tier 6?

[scarlet fjord]

¯_(ツ)_/¯
1625 = any tier

[twin egret]

ah yes, I average 1.6k at tier 1, 2, & 4

[mental pasture]

It's possible to do around 800 easily in T1, but 1.6K?

[fallow eagle]

Maybe wn8 for avg tier higher then 7?

[twin egret]

notice that I ignored Tier 3 for a reason 😏

[rare sleet]

yeah t3 is just seal club mania

[ashen pine]

I can't stand Emil 1 no matter what I do the gold I fire it is small and sooo well armoured and to top it all had a very good gun I endup more scared of it then like a ceneavorn action X or an isu 153

[vagrant onyx]

Do you guys think that maybe the the amx 13 90 needs a buff?

[dreamy oar]

Oh yeah give that boi that op speed boost and watch as he spots enemies

Ps: is joke

[vital basalt]

maybe a buff to whole chinese TD line?so they can be little bit more popular,like giving them extra little alpha
tier 6 310>320
tier 7 400>420
tier 8 is fine,its amazing even
tier 9 and 10 640>680
idk theyre just so pointless rn

[twin egret]

AMX defender probably does lol

[true laurel]

I think the sta 1 needs a buff, maybe just more armour and a little more Dom so it doesn't just rely on it's team all the time

[winged barn]

Nah, that might actually make it a valid tank.

[twin egret]

🤔 kinda confused by some the penetration values that some tanks have

[unique scaffold]

churchill VII needs a buff maybe 20km/h top speed to 25km/h

[nimble zodiac]

All the british tier 6 heavies have the same top speeds xD

[vagrant onyx]

I mean as in the tech tree amx 13 90. Like seriously, only 178 AP pen with calibrated shells for a tank that has little to no armor?

[twin egret]

It has speed/alpha dmg

[vagrant onyx]

The amx 13 90 unleashes about 600-650 avg damage per clip if you don’t miss (and having pretty bad pen makes it easier to miss) and it takes 22.5 secs to unleash your full clip without gun rammer💀

[twin egret]

since when does it have a gun rammer 😂

[autumn zodiac]

@vagrant onyx it actually takes 15.6 seconds to laid a clip without provisions and takes only 5 to empty it

20.6 at max

19.5 minimum

For the mobility, camo, and clip potential, all of this considered it's pretty decent

[vagrant onyx]

That is still 20 secs, way too much for a paper tank that could easily be nuked and has bad pen, like the t-54 lightweight has almost the same pen without calibrated shells. The t49 is a meme tank where you could easily do a really good amount of damage to almost any tank in one shot although I’m not comparing either tanks, I’m just asking if maybe the amx 13 90 needs a buff. Literally the fv and the t-54 lightweight are way better than the amx 13 90 and I’d even say I’ve had a better experience in the t49

[autumn zodiac]

What about T49?

You can miss your one shot in T49 and get nothing at all

Weaker armor

Less camo

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, 20 seconds, just like Emil I who can't get away into cover as easily

[autumn zodiac]

Besides, 13 90 has the best accuracy, and is tied for camo

It doesn't need another buff

[vagrant onyx]

The same Emil 1 that has a really good turret armor and a clip where each shell does about 320 damage and a whole clip is unleashed in about 30-ish seconds (btw that’s about a 300 damage difference)

[nimble zodiac]

By average, Emil I deals 285 more damage per clip, but they have the same DPM

[vagrant onyx]

We have to use numbers we know for certain and are indicated in the game by WG. For me the average damage the amx 13 90 has been giving me is about 200-210 per shot🤷🏽‍♂️

[nimble zodiac]

We can't use such examples, WG has set it to 225, may bad RNG strike when it happens.

Besides, we shouldn't compare it to an overperforming tank, that's how tier 7 happened, AMX 13 90 is special in its environment, a fast clipper, with each shot being a more substantial hit than one from Defender's

[vagrant onyx]

I just used it as a bit of an example but didn’t want to sound too “mean” ig

[nimble zodiac]

If you take an extremely long list of damage rolls, it will more accurately reflect the 225 average

[unique scaffold]

Amx 13 90 isn’t like a heavy u can use it for spotting your target and go behind them.

[real bison]

^ it’s burst also allows it to compete with other LTs

Sure, a T-54 LTWT does ~280 (which even beats some mediums) but, a 13 90 can fire all 3 shells in the time it takes the LTWT to reload, even having a few seconds spare to prepare to get away

(Mind you, this is an optimal situation for the 13 90, but still, the hit and run principle still applies)

[leaden flare]

It's balance not technical read Read READ there is a technical channel just for stuff like this

[normal vapor]

ok smart boi, now calm because not everyone has roles for that or people just don't mind or it could be anything but its not your job to tell people what to do 😂

[turbid smelt]

they had similar issue in end of 2019

sometimes you could log back in
and farm the entire team racking some crazy damage games

[unique scaffold]

Nerf Op Tier 7 premium/collector tanks

[fallow eagle]

Nerf op tanks

[wispy arrow]

K91 needs to have pumpkin

[minor minnow]

How often do you actually see them? It hasn’t been sold in years and it’s likely to stay that way. What are you even doing in low tier anyway?

[quasi axle]

Only 56 wr?

[lean ridge]

Do something for the scout system, i got kill by a ghost at 10m of me ...

[quasi axle]

You're guaranteed to spot someone within 50m of you so idk about that

[drowsy plaza]

@normal vapor you are right that is mine. Click a regional role and submit a technical report - it has zero to do with balance.

[twin egret]

Did wargaming think we were clowns 🤡 or something when they thought 100 gold compensation for A-32 was something good?

ngl, how was it even possible for the A-32 to get that top speed of 70

[full token]

They expected you to not sell it for 1450 gold before you got it back from the BP

[true laurel]

An 18 foot pumpkin :3

[scarlet fjord]

man
i miss the good old days when running ur average med was viable

[nimble zodiac]

When your average med was actually average

"every scenario" yeah no

[thick raft]

Why does European heavies have gun calibration and US&UK engine power booster while they have an impenetrable damn turret and hull armour except for the tricky weak spot like an IS-3, i thought these tanks were gonna be unarmoured or at least badly armoured on hull and well armoured on turret only, their guns aren't even bad and they also have a f....ng gun calibration

Seriously, who needs a Maus or E-100 or T110E5 or FV215b when you have this thing that excels in every scenario

Why does only British medium and light tanks have weird penetration rates, why Foch and Ho-Ri barely loses any DPM on premium ammunition and have good speed with impenetrable or tricky armour

[sudden granite]

Nice pfp ya got there lol

[scarlet fjord]

cuz inferior alpha for the TD's
Kran is not better than any other heavy its very strong but nothing like E5 or IS-4 lol

[thick raft]

Be more clear if it's a sarcasm SeekAndDestroy, there's nothing to be afraid of, same to you with also a nice name btw

Harb Kranvagn has the ability to either shoot once and load the shell into the magazine again or dump the whole magazine when it's suited and it has an impenetrable turret, E5 and IS-4 are less much of a threat compared to these things plus it's not the alpha that matters on penetration, it's the DPM

FV217 Badger also has an inferior alpha for a tank destroyer but it doesn't has the same thing on premium ammunition

Just to clarify, there's no such thing as "inferior alpha for TD" to me, this is your idea and i'm rolling according to your logic

[river valley]

Buff the L7A1 gun HEAT pen to 350 or smthing it is the top gun (not te HESH gun) on Centurion mk. 7/1 and FV4202

[nimble zodiac]

350mm is way too much for a medium

And there are two cupolas if the Kranvagn wished to shoot you when hulldown, if he protects them, he can't fire upon you

[thick raft]

I never saw a hull down Kranvagn in the first place lol

Except on the mines map and even then i was never able to shoot at the top of the turret because the European heavies are taller than most heavies, besides the turret looks upwards when the gun looks upwards as well so it's really hard to hit even if you're able to see the top of the turret

Btw i'm thinking of grinding the FV4202 what play style is suited the best for it? Other tanks can be given as an example

Okay then, just like T49 and SU-152 with the derp guns lol

[rare sleet]

No one uses the Heat gun on fv4202 anyways cuz it makes the tank just worse than other mediums so a pointless buff.

The best play style for fv4202 is burn away all your credits till you are poor. Spam HESH and be like a support tank

[river valley]

yeah but 300 mm isnt enough to pen things like E 100 also the tank has no armor, maybe the upper plate is good but without good turret its useless also 40 km/h top speed is trash, so it will be hard for it to circle the HTs

[quasi axle]

300mm heat with Cali is 330 that's enough for e100

[nimble zodiac]

300mm can pen an E100's turret if it's directed towards you

Also the 250mm bar and 150mm bar

[thick raft]

I rarely see a bad British medium tank player on top tier tbh, even on middle tier they're hard to see

[scarlet fjord]

I'm telling u for real the kran isnt even nearly as good as E5

[winged barn]

Solidly disagree. Dpm for when its actually needed> dpm that is useless. Because the kran turret is impenetrable, it gets to fully use its gun. Have fun with those cheeks peeking anything with half decent pen.

[zealous vessel]

It has horrible aim time and on movement dispersion, I sold it and decided to play on the defender which is way better in every way, except alpha damage of course.

[autumn zodiac]

[zealous vessel]

Oh so it's just self esteem and confidence. But the Dpm shell burst capacity, and clip reload make it better. Also that one more km accounts for speed. Oh the pen is good tho on the defender. Also about the kran and e5, the e5 is better as you have a higher chance of bouncing gold shells because of a rounded turret, and the kran is angled flat, also e5 is better for noobs at sidescraping because of the rounded hull, the kran has a flat hull, so yeah we can see who wins. The problem is the t110e5 can be penned by a 152mm gun so su152 is an example. Just watch the Wot vid on how to block damage. Both can be played almost the same just go hulldown. https://youtu.be/uKtmnwIwrHc PS: Thanks WoT for making this vid! No thanks to blitz. Jk they the same company.

[autumn zodiac]

Btw, You can see that 13 90 is more accurate than most of the Vehicles other than T49's 90mm, which has terrible movement values and such

[zealous vessel]

#nerf Smasher Wargaming! Just do it many people want it! If you want more players do it! "Unpopular?" It's very popular! Why it's only unpopular among you because of the fear of losing money. So you track stats huh? have you noticed it's the most played tank behind another tank; the annihilator, yet we only asked for the smasher, since it's a Collector. 😠 PS: LOL they got more dislikes than likes! 🤣 This is also a balance discussion.

[winged barn]

And that folks is why we don't have anymore answers from them. We kept asking them questions they don't want to answer.

[turbid smelt]

who even reacts to their own post...
L

[craggy kayak]

T28 proto and T28 are literally a trash, they don't have a armor, top speed is than hmmm Vk100p is more fast

[last shadow]

They aren't trash
They are fun to play against

[quasi axle]

They do have armor (kind of)

[vital basalt]

T28 gets a great buff
but ehh Prot still gonna be left as the worst tier 8 td
i forgot amx ac 48 so its 2nd worst

[twin egret]

I'd rather have the gun that has both premium heat and hesh instead of 350mm HEAT

[low cliff]

If you're going to use the heat gun on the cent/4202 line, it's time to find a different med to play

[twin egret]

buff FV4202 apcr pen to 260 :troll_face:

[craggy kayak]

Nerf dpm Vickers light and Cr

[tawdry glen]

The word trash doesn't fit. Bad fits better

[abstract parrot]

Balancing Suggestion - Stop the zeros being put up by new players. Change matchmaker to only play one (same) tier games during peak hours 8 AM - 8 PM. The players with low WR are getting blanked because they can't pen next level up tanks resulting in blow out games that are constantly happening. It just is not fun playing unbalanced games. To much focus by WOTB maintaining WR at 50% for all players at all costs to game play. Just lost 6-0 with two zeros for DMG by teamates. Experienced players are playing less and even quitting the game. Do something to make it fun and more balanced.

[nimble zodiac]

The good players are enjoying the easy kills, and they can play tournaments if they want competent teammates

Also you can't call it a balancing suggestion and expect it to apply to this channel

[frail silo]

i do not think you can fix such situation without making it unfair for one of the parties involved.
if you are frustrated by having zeros on your teammates then have you considered the amount of times you got good teams and had good games with?

[midnight talon]

So your trying to do a +0 -0 thing. While it happens sometimes it wouldn’t be necessary. They learn as they face challenges. Giving them the opportunity to not learn is simply the problem.

[drowsy plaza]

@abstract parrot other than your tier 5 clubbing reroll what else do you play? As it stands right now you are complaining about games in the new player queue. Perhaps read the messages here - most of us learned the game in +/-2 so you will get Zero sympathy and told to carry harder. This isn’t the MM complaints room that’s #general-blitz-discussion

[winged barn]

Roasting a toes noob I see

[rare sleet]

why does Fv4202 even have poopy hesh anyways its not like anyone uses it.

[low cliff]

Yeah WG should have given it the 183's hesh rounds smh my head

[rare sleet]

Big brain shell idea, make a explosive shell with big splash radius but virtually no pen so you can only splash hmmmm.

I just realized thats basically a small artillery shell lol

[minor minnow]

At least it’d be direct fire

[scarlet fjord]

you have no idea what the E5 is capable of then

[uneven narwhal]

E5 can't really sidescrape
Your sides will be penned almost every single time

You can bounce off the upper part of the side hull but not really the lower, it's only 44mm thick

[nimble zodiac]

That still counters most heavies if you angle it enough, but then the d e c k

@rustic hemlock barely at all, so it wouldn’t be worth the effort

[mental pasture]

E5 can't sidescrape, but it doesn't need anyways.

It have a trollish turret and a very hard turret, it also have the speed of a medium tank and speed boost. Sidescrape is for armored fortresses, E5 is a smart heavy, not a brute.

[rustic hemlock]

Do you guys think the T20 would bounce more if the spaced armour on the gun manlet was lengthened to this amount?

[uneven narwhal]

I'm not implying that it can sidescrape. The person I replied to said it can due to the rounded hull which it can't.
I agree E5 isn't a sidescraper, it's more of a hulldown tank

[mental pasture]

Understandable.

[twin egret]

no, lol, stop

[strong fulcrum]

Does anyone of you think that the obj 704 needs either an aromor buff or a speed buff?

It certainly needs a hp buff as it even has less hp than the WT auf Pz.4

[sharp saddle]

WT in general is just overly strong and needs toning down

[leaden flare]

I've been talking about a WT nerf for ages but people are like ... Has no Armor must be balanced

[mental pasture]

I never had problems with the Waffle, but it got Spawn linner then I most agree that it should at least lose this provision.

[drowsy plaza]

In a lot of games the Waffle > Grille simply due to the gun depression over the back deck - while the Grille flops around trying to traverse. The Waffle definitely didn’t need Spall Liner or Reticle Cal

[sharp saddle]

Pretty much.

Spall liner forces many guns to not shoot HE as it isn’t worthwhile.
Reticle calibration allows me to hit a few more shots a game which I probably wouldn’t have hit/penned if it wasn’t for the consumable

[mental pasture]

Indeed, Crusader6 does still very lucid about game balancing.

[drowsy plaza]

IMHO all these super consumables do is make tanks better for better players. Most players don’t know when/how to best employ then.

[sharp saddle]

Like this lol?

My favourite image

[distant river]

The superspeed, reticle and (to a lesser extent) reactive yeah but spall liner is mostly useful for worse players. There's no real penalty for using it so everyone uses it

[drowsy plaza]

@wary bay can’t read?

[gleaming apex]

Trandafir#1052 was muted

[unique scaffold]

I know this isn't anything about balance or tanks, but I can't find any suggestion channel so Im putting it here in hopes that blitz devs can see this
Basically I'm an asian player and chose the Asian server as my start server. Ive played 4 years on this acc and now I want to make blitz content (esp with upcoming updates) but I found out I'll have to start over on other servers such as EU and NA. I was hoping that blitz can add cross-server synchronization so that us English-speakers can hop over to NA or EU without having to start over.
(to all those in Asian servers no discrimination but I simply cannot understand Thai or Indian languages)

[scarlet fjord]

lmaooo

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold they don’t offer that. I’ll PM you.

[dreamy oar]

Yea no. The t20 is meant be a tank can hull down. Even if wg gave more spaces armor to the gun manlet, the rest of the turret is kinda of big and it will be pointless

[leaden flare]

Why tho I know I few that at some point were able to move Thier ACC from na to EU for example

I know they removed it but I can't see the reason behind it
ACC goes to EU and the Asia one gets banned that's as much as I know about how it works

[remote oriole]

It’s a lot of trouble because they need to do it manually

And there are a few possibly nasty complications

[full token]

They didn’t ‘remove’ it since it was a temporary thing from the start, that they only allowed because of some special circumstances

[rare sleet]

Man it would be useful though like what if you created an account, but moved to a different country naturally you would want to change what server you are on

[orchid grove]

What are you talking about? T20 was never, and has never been a hulldown tank.

If you want to differentiate T20 from everything else, it should be in-line with the line's historical advantages, superior view range and gun handling

[dreamy oar]

Oh sorry im typing on phone and it looks like either autocorrect or human error for got to put never. I meant to say that it the t20 was never meant to be a hull down tank

[drowsy plaza]

@leaden flare it was a total mess. It was done once - and a mess. I tried to get it done for a soldier who was in Germany when he started playing and returned to the States. After talking to Ribble and others, he decided to abandon the EU account and make a new NA one as the headaches involved are monumental- everything - each tank - each stat etc has to be moved manually - and because of that there are errors.

[leaden flare]

oof sounds very annoying

[turbid smelt]

smh just do ctrl c and ctrl v

[full token]

It worked well for a friend of mine. They make an EU account, and then their NA account gets transferred after some days.

[drowsy plaza]

@turbid smelt apparently they can’t.

Anyway it’s no longer offered and not applicable here anyway.

Back to raging about Annihilators please

[twin egret]

lmao, "Back to raging about Annihilators please"

[minor minnow]

Ok ok, as an anni player (insert generic blabbing about how it’s bad because you got HE penned)

[winged barn]

If only weegee would actually look at the charts that they post.

[dreamy oar]

People really make that argument.

[turbid smelt]

listen to me peeps, this may sound far fetched

but what if
we introduced atgms back

to counter every other tank other than tier 7s?

[winged barn]

What if

No

Because yes

[rare sleet]

Great Idea we should add atgms in tier 7

[nimble zodiac]

T49A:

[stray verge]

We need to add arty in tier 7

[twin egret]

Arty would act more like TDs than being arty in blitz

[prisma jetty]

You're a comedian

[unique scaffold]

For arty the map is to small.and it is also better with no arty in wot blitz.

[uneven narwhal]

Nice joke lol

[rustic hemlock]

What if we turn ATGMS into just unguided Missiles. Pretty much a Missile that travels much much farther than a shell but only goes in one direction.

[prisma jetty]

Shells can go across the entire map anyways and are faster. That would also defeat the purpose of it being an Anti-Tank Guided Missile

[hearty steeple]

Uh, so just a heat shell

[uneven narwhal]

A slower HEAT shell
Who would want that lmao
IDK how a missile can travel much farther than a shell if the shell can go across the map anyways

[cerulean mason]

ATGMs where the biggest mistake WG has made. They’re gone for good. Thankfully.

[fallow eagle]

Unguided missiles lol
Just shooting for the sake of shooting and not for damaging enemy

[twin egret]

Wargaming could've easily made the ATGMs act more like regular HEAT rounds, but rounds that can somewhat, but barely move in tradjection

[thick raft]

I'm telling u for real the kran isn't even nearly as good as E5

T110E5's performance is dependant on the team and the map while Kranvagn can outperform any other heavy tank, it can even outperform some medium tanks, you have an impenetrable turret and a good penetration with US engine power boost and gun calibration and the same dispersion and same traverse speed with T110E5, the T110E5 has a turret filled with weak spots, a weak hull side armour, an armour profile that forces it to a hull down position and even on hull down position it should be moving due to weak spots on turret which makes it unable to aim often

[nimble zodiac]

Kranvagn is good, but not to outclass E5, because E5 still has a troll hull, a small LFP, and a solid enough turret, sure Kranvagn has an autoreloader, allowing dynamic usage of the gun, but it’s nothing too special

[thick raft]

T110E5 is a very niche above average player tank while Kranvagn is a beginner friendly tank, can you say otherwise?

[leaden flare]

E5 is superior in most cases
Kran is insanely team dependent if you don't get the enemy into a slow fight you are screwed because even if you have the clip already loaded, which in most cases won't be the case because you don't sit around with a full clip , you have a whopping 1,9k DPM compared to 2,8k in e5
Your overall mobility is way way worse and I'm not talking stat wise
Your turret isn't impenetrable TDs have a fair chance of penning it if they play right I'm talking from TD and kranvagn experience even HEd the cupola several times already despite getting hit for 350-500 he dmg from a 152-155mm gun from splash isn't nice either

Also both tanks shouldn't sidescrape

[full token]

dpm is above 2k with an empty clip. 1.9k is the dpm firing single shot with a full clip

[spiral bough]

The Turtle Mk.1’s upper frontal armor is 152mm on Blitz but 254mm on WoT PC. Is that a mistake or intentional?

Because right now the thing is just a tofu xp box trundling along at 20km/h. Even the T49 can pen it frontally with HEAT lmao

[full token]

blitz doesnt copy pc like that

[frank belfry]

God, WG give us back the good old upper part armor of Turtle MK I, its so unbalance. I glad I got in 3rd crates for 2.5K gold but still...

[thick rover]

Tofu HAHHa

[full token]

The tank has had this armor since release. There was no better armor for pretty much everyone. Every tank had some draft stats, whether worse or better. The existence of those versions doesnt mean the final version needs to be changed to that

@spiral bough IIRC the T49 also pens the Cupola on the AT15

[final socket]

Is there a French server ?

[spiral bough]

You have to admit, there's something wrong if the T49's HEAT can pen the front of a heavy tank destroyer going hull-down...

My guess is that WG got lazy when they made the model for this tank, merging what was originally supposed to be 3 parts into one.

@full token The T49 is just an example of a low-pen gun. The point here is that the Turtle has a weak spot where it shouldn't have: the upper frontal armor, which coincidentally is the only part of the tank you see when it's hull-down. The cupola being a weak spot is normal for many tanks, so the comparison is moot.

Just ignore my original comparison to the tank on WoT PC and just see how it is in blitz. It's obviously under-balanced.

[full token]

What rule says tanks cant have weakspots on the frontal armor that isnt a cupola or lower plate?
All im seeing you mention is the armor and saying how that makes it weak

[spiral bough]

The Turtle can be compared to the British AT line of TDs. No vehicle in that line has such a problematic weak point when viewed head-on (excluding the cupola).

Tanks are balanced by using 3 parameters: Mobility, Armor, and the Gun. The Turtle sacrifices a great deal of mobility for armor, so it stands to reason that it should be well-armored. In it's current state, it's unable to effectively carry out it's expected role on the battlefield: to hold the line.

I'm not saying that "no armor=weak tank". I'm just stating that it's current armor profile is unbalanced in regards to its horrendous mobility.

I also want to ask; what's your point? You haven't stated any opinions regarding the tank's other stats, and all I can see is that you think there is no need to balance the tank because WG balanced it as so. Which is obviously not valid as an opinion in regards to tank balancing.

[full token]

Compared to the AT15, it has no cupola weakness. It gets better mobility, both from traverse and p/w ratio. Has the top plate thats weak. Loses dpm but gets better alpha, and so that better alpha means the dpm advantage of the AT15 guns isnt as good as the numbers show. Less shots to hit from the Turtle, better pen. Better credit earning. It may not be as good as the AT15 but it doesnt seem like a terrible tank. Premiums outdoing tech tree tanks is currently an issue. Imo it would be OP if that unangled upper plate were impenetrable

[spiral bough]

・No cupola- True, but it has that huge upper front plate, which is without a doubt a lot bigger.
・Better mobility- Also true, but both are abysmal, so I don't really think it's relevant. If it were as fast as the WZ-120FT, yes, it'd be worth noting, but not in it's current state.
・The gun- They have different guns, each offering a different experience, which is good in regards to diversity. I have no complaints about the gun.

I completely agree about the OP premium tank issue.

About the Turtle- If the upper plate were for example 300mm, yes, it'd arguably be OP and unbalanced because same-tier HTs wouldn't be able to pen it even with prammo. But if it were 254mm, it'd be unpennable by standard rounds but easily pennable by premium rounds, which is perfectly balanced in my opinion. In it's current state, it can be penned even by same-tier MT's with standard ammo from the front, which makes it unarguably under-powered.

@full token That's my point exactly! The strength of the Turtle is supposed to be it's ability to force other tanks to either use prammo for higher pen (in return for lower alpha), or to flank it using a different angle of attack. However, it's unable to do so effectively with it's mediocre armor profile.

It's not as bad as some of the other tanks that are beyond saving, true. But it can also be tweaked to be more relevant, and I think we agree on that point. How (or even if) WG decides to do that is up to them though.

[full token]

I suppose they could buff the armor plate to be stronger against medium tank AP when angled or when using depression. And then check how that performs before buffing again if needed. But i dont think its that weak as it is rn

[nimble zodiac]

The gun itself, not just the handling, would stand as 1 of the 3 parts of balancing tank if anything. Its effectiveness, noting penetration, damage, and reloading time, should be included. I’ll let you correct that

[scenic hound]

when you lose a battle, and you do like 7k, and you get a yellow banner saying valiant effort, how much bonus xp does it give you? or is it purely cosmetic?

[spiral bough]

You’re absolutely correct, by gun handling I meant to include all the parameters regarding the gun. Sorry about the ambiguity.

[full token]

Supposed to give you as much xp as if you won

[latent snow]

Buff turtle armor, a tier 6 tank has better armor than it and it is 2 tiers lower. This is with 175mm of pen.

[nimble zodiac]

How'd you get an updated profile? =(

[distant river]

Buff 252 armor, a tier 6 tank has better armor than it and it is 2 tiers lower.

[latent snow]

My profile is updated?

[full token]

When are the 7.9 stats being released? They’re supposed to include some of the more OP premiums that qualified for the charts but were hidden due to a very mysterious ‘bug’

[mental pasture]

It's not a bug, it's a virus called as "I can't show it because these data will make me look like a villain". This virus have been affecting a lot of computers in world wide, but apparently, it just affect companies.

[unique scaffold]

turtle mk 1 needs a buff and object 260 too and vic light (tier 2), grobtractor, pzsfl ivc, is-2sh. scam unbalanced game, better to play other games

[distant river]

"WG introduced these balanced tanks. This is not good enough. Make them op."

🤦‍♀️

[leaden flare]

It's not balanced If it's basically useless

Balanced would be if it could try to avoid that weakspot which it can't it's always horribly armored

You compared the upper plate to a lower plate you should see urself that that's dumb

I was talking about 🐢@Brazil14n#9808

That nice gun is worse in everything but alpha and pen compared to at15 gun I don't see any point in getting a tank that is basically garbage
That doesn't mean I want a op tank or consumables on it just a little mor Armor so angling it will have a usable effect

[mental pasture]

@leaden flare Obj 260 is perfect for the job that it's meant to do. Outplay medium tanks. It's one of the heavies that can simply be a substitute for the lack of a flanker on the team, but unlike others, Obj 260 HAVE to do it.

IS-7 lowerplate is 225mm with APCR normalization, Obj 260 pens 260mm (wow what a big deal, Obj 260 pens it's name)

Sure @full token

[unique scaffold]

260 can barely pen is7 lower front, the gun is so overrated. depends on angles. also 2 less depression than amx m4 54

[full token]

you sure?

@mental pasture Eurydome was talking about the Turtle

[neon yew]

Turtle fixed in game or not?

[twin egret]

maybe, maybe not, it was nerfed in testing, maybe it's now buffed, who knows

[distant river]

The lower plate of the arl is stronger, I can compare it if you like but that's even more "dumb". I was showing the weakest reliably hittable place of the frontal armour.

It has a weakspot. Wow. Work around it. Don't expose constantly. Use your brain. Use it's nice gun. It's like a tort a tier lower but with better armour and no HESH. It requires you to think not just sit in the open and expect to bounce everything. It's balanced.

[unique scaffold]

they make it super weak cos they know theres people who make excuses, like how 260 was overhyped prior and then people mocked as if they wanted it op

[gleaming apex]

chinan9#5113 was muted

[drowsy plaza]

@distant river honestly after they nerfed the armor from test - it probably could have gotten a bit of mobility - perhaps a few more kph and some degrees traverse.

[patent helm]

As someone who uses TDs a lot especially the ones with no turret and it’s just my opinion but is it a good idea that All TDs have the enhanced Engine Boost module? Because the TDs without turrets(unless it’s T110E3) can’t keep up with being Circled

@quasi axle it’s not that I want it to have no weaknesses it’s just fair cause they have no turrets

[quasi axle]

bruh why do people want to make it so that tanks have no weaknesses

[leaden flare]

At15 can fairly well keep up with circlers imo

[full token]

CoDs can be avoided and dealt with by not getting into an open field with no buildings anywhere near you. Compared to years ago, much more people have figured out how to avoid a CoD now, instead of sitting in the open and trying to turn faster than you can circle them. They just run for the nearest building and try to block off the circle. Or they turn opposite to the circling enemy, slowing them down by making them stop and reverse or turn

[drowsy plaza]

Shorter box tanks do better generally against COD. The longer turretless ones are easy to pin even if they try to scrape off something to cover them - simply due to their length.

[nimble zodiac]

The armor profiles have their new values for 7.9, but not for me, I'm using the website, that might be the issue

Dang =(

@radiant spoke someone who downvotes people for performing badly? I can't take that seriously.

I've gotten really frustrating teammates, but by realizing your victories also rely on the enemy having bad teammates, I have to be humbled by it

[latent snow]

Yea the app is updated to 7.9

[full token]

Thats how MM is. You get those kind of battles as often as the battles where your team is the good one

[leaden flare]

playing bad = unsportive for me its somewhat that way considering bad players usually yolo, go to the wrong positions or block/ram you and those things are considered unsportive for me

[radiant spoke]

Then why aren’t the teams equal? Wouldn’t it be better for teams to have 2 bad playees on both sides instead of them all being on one side? I’m not saying the mm is rigged, it just needs to be fixed. Its not cool.
@leaden flare They exactly did that. Also those tanks aren’t bad at all

[nimble zodiac]

The yolo/trolling players may intentionally be unsporting, but the players that just can't do well at all, it's not on purpose, so it is a fault to their skill, not their conduct

@radiant spoke want more balanced teams? Play ranked. The points are made as equal as the player pool can allow

Now, considering you're probably bogged down, let's say a 50%er, mad at bad players, the 40%ers, like you, and they keep registering complaints against them for their undesirable skill. Let's say the system works in your favor and gets rid of many of the 40%ers, can you guess what %WR players are gonna be next?

And if the complain system is useless, then why bother?

Ok I can't phrase it to where an example 50%er player is mad at bad players, and comparing that frustration to bad players to yours. I pulled an all-nighter, lol

[gleaming apex]

The Maus#4779 has been warned.

[radiant spoke]

Look, I’m not saying all 50% should be in one battle, 60% in another. I’m saying revamp the current system. Cant we have a balanced amount of bad, good and pro players on both teams? It makes no sense not to? It also makes games last longer and steamrolling becomes less of a thing, making the overall game more hard and difficult.

Also mods, Where is the name and shame? Point exactly instead of saying it in lay man’s terms. No name and shame here, those guys were inactive and unsupportive and deserved it.

[gleaming apex]

The Maus#4779 was muted

[unique scaffold]

F

[lusty pond]

person: tier 7 is BROKEN
me: wait until you see this

[nimble zodiac]

Also, for the armor coloring in Blitzhangar, anyone know why 300mm in tier 9 is an orange-red while 245mm in tier 10 is bright red?

Maybe the Tortoise has something to do with it

@rare sleet understandably, Lowe's AP shells are great for tier 8

@distant river or depression for that matter :p
Oh but it is depressed for how unspecial it is

[rare sleet]

Turtle Mk1 Armor against Lowe AP no calibrated. @nimble zodiac Still pretty sad I expected more Red from a Tank this slow.

Ok Ill test it with t7 later.

Plus Im pretty sure distance doesnt matter for Lowe cuz it has AP shell

[distant river]

And on top of that you are at close range looking down on the sloped armour, and it's using no gun arc at all

Maybe it's just a happy tank so no depression is required :D @MS-1#1707

[mental pasture]

I'm not impressed. Löwe's gun is a demon. @rare sleet

[lean gate]

I believe wg will buff it after 2 or 3 updates maximum

[spiral bough]

Top: T49 HEAT (calibrated)
Bottom: Progetto 46 AP (calibrated)

It’s literally screaming “please pen my weak spots even when I’m hull down”

Yep, undeniably tofu

[dark pike]

balans

[full token]

Doesn’t look too bad looking at that pic

[mental pasture]

Not bad, at least this vehicle have a weakspot. What if Turtle had no weakspot while doing hulldown? Would you say that it's OP because it's invincible while hiding the lower plate?

Many people say that tank X or Y is overcooked or OP only because of an armor that demands prammo. I can't lie, sometimes I'm also one of those.

[twin egret]

loads premium you were saying?

[spiral bough]

@mental pasture
Just to be clear, my stance on the Turtle is that it needs a buff to either mobility or armor. It’s in no way OP.

The problem here is that it can be penned even while hull-down by vehicles/ammo known for their mediocre pen.

The thing goes at 20km/h max and turns at around the same rate as the AT15. Such a slow tank would be expected to bear the brunt of enemy fire at the front line. Yet, it has an uncoverable weak spot which can be penned frontally by most tanks with standard ammo. That’s a problem.

See my earlier posts for more information if you’d like.
#tank-balance-discussion message

[distant river]

"It's not op so it needs a buff"

Welcome to the blitz community, and reason #16380 why WG don't listen.

Just leave it as a mediocre to below average tank. It's fine how it is.

[mental pasture]

Understandable, but I still think that it's balanced on the way it is, I'm not the one that is going to open those loot boxes anyways.
Even tho, I wouldn't complain about a slight mobility buff unless it starts to affect my gameplay negatively.

[crystal halo]

Why even add it to the game if it brings nothing, it can’t do anything. It’s not about making a mediocre tank op, it’s about making a useless tank have something to its name. Even if it’s slightly more troll armour on that top bar

[spiral bough]

"It's not op It’s unable to effectively perform its intended role so it needs a buff"

OP tanks (those that go above and beyond their expected role) need nerfs and UP tanks (those unable to fulfill even their intended role) need buffs. That’s the point of balancing no?

I personally would appreciate if you could give more concrete reasoning behind your saying that the Turtle doesn’t need a buff instead of just spamming rhetoric.

[full token]

Id rather they leave the armor on the upper plate alone if theyre buffing any of the armor. Maybe buff something else than the armor. If it cant hulldown, maybe it just isnt a hulldown kind of tank

[mental pasture]

Have you guys tried a T28 HTC playstyle on it?

[sweet prism]

At this day of blitz any tank with top speed 20kmph is just too slow. The top speed/reverse speed easily could be buffed to 25/15 without making turtle op. Specially when heavies with 50% more hp and turret reverse at 15-20kmph

[distant river]

It's an AT15 with a much harder hitting gun. It's a tort at tier 8 that makes credits. There's no other tank like it.

@spiral bough It can perform its role fine. Bounce a few shows. Do decent damage with it's nice gun. Make credits. What more do you want it to do? You want it to be like an E3 at tier 8 but behind a paywall, with a better gun and brilliant gun arc? It needs thought to play. It's not overly rewarding for good players. It's just an average tank.

[crystal halo]

Well it’s supposed to be a badger knockoff at 2 tiers lower, and it’s a role the AT-15 can’t fill. At what point would it’s speed be too fast for what it’s supposed to be? The armour is supposedly what that tanks is supposed to have in its favour

[spiral bough]

@distant river
No offense, but I find it hard to believe that it’s capable of bouncing any shots not made in haste. It’s slower than almost all the tanks it faces, yet can be penned frontally with standard rounds by those with the lowest pen. That’s with realistic gun depression and gun arc applied.

While the gun is nice, it’s worth noting that the shell velocity is second only to the Rhm (counting from the bottom). Obviously an in-your-face tank.

On flat ground it can’t hide its lower plate, and it’s armored slope becomes irrelevant. Hull down, its vulnerable top plate is easily taken advantage of.

The armor profile is too mediocre to justify its stats regarding the mobility and gun. Trust me, I wouldn’t be saying this if it had for example the 254mm it had in testing. 254 is unpennable with standard but easy pickings for gold. Any tank that has a problem even with gold would easily be able to flank it.

The Turtle is in no way comparable to the Tortoise in its current state. In addition to the superior dpm tier-for-tier, the latter is capable of reliably bouncing same-tier standard shells even when head-on.

[vital basalt]

its kinda balanced now but tbh i expected at least ~200mm armor at that upper plate,before nerf yes it was op with 254mm but i dont think it would be that op with 200mm armor

[full token]

Maybe a smaller buff than that, and then see how it performs before buffing further, instead of a bigger buff they can’t reverse

What’s a lucid. Nvm

[mental pasture]

Lucid man.

[distant river]

Funnily enough in games you don't get to aim up every single shot at close ranger perfectly. When it's weakspots are of comparable size to the lower plate of a maus (they are actually smaller), as well at being at a tier where the standard inaccurate russian 122 is very very common, people are not going to hit these sections constantly. Also the shell velocity is not great but it definitely doesn't mean to have to be right up close to the reds, again it just takes more thought in aiming. The tortoise cannot reliably bounce same tier standard shells at all, as well as being more sluggish.

Like I've said, it's not a good tank. Thankfully, it does not need to be a good tank. It's an average or just below average tank that works best in the hands of average players. It's fine how it is, if you don't like it then don't buy it.

[winged barn]

The tanks right in line with the t28.

Oh.

Oh no.

[distant river]

Nah T28 has more usable armour front armour (and consumables) at the cost of gun arc, handling, gun height and side armour and traverse

[winged barn]

While having similarly effective armor to the at15 (a tank well known for being insanely broken /s) you lose out on 1k dpm.

10/10 recommend this tank.

[minor minnow]

Ok, so, as far as I have learned, a not op tank has been released, and people are upset

[winged barn]

Complete opposite end of the spectrum. It's a balancing failure just as much as a broken tank is.

[distant river]

The AT15 is a great tank, and you gain double the alpha and better pen as well. It's not a balancing failure it's just a very meh tank

[rare sleet]

yes the tank is not op and in a tier surrounded with super strong tanks it just sucks, and its even worse because its in crates.

If it was for money or gold atleast you can guarantee you are buying a garbage tank, but imagine putting a terrible tank in crates. You Win it, you lose. You dont win it, you lose.

[full token]

If not in crates itd be for a large amount of money or gold, and then someone will say its not worth that amount.

25 crates is a guarantee too

[mortal falcon]

oh no! my new tier 8 premium isn't blatantly op! what will i do 😢

[frail silo]

clearly, the people who asked for a buff didn't say that but sure. go off.

[prisma jetty]

The problem isn't that it's not op, that's fine. The problem is the AT15 is clearly better and is free. The turtle is coming in crates for obscene amounts of money, and it's not even worth half the price you have to pay for it

[mortal falcon]

Crates are paying for early access. if you don't want to pay that price, you wait.

@frail silo the tank is fine. it has solid alpha and dpm and the armor, while much worse, isn't the end of the world

@frail silo "dpm and alpha are worthless if your armor is basically useless"

• leo 1
• most meds in general
• at15 has arguably worse armor if you want to play the "mobility" card

[frail silo]

no it is not fine lmao, dpm and alpha are worthless if your armor is basically useless
that and it is coupled with bad mobility.
and the buff they are asking for isn't even game breaking. it will make the tank decent(still not better than AT15) instead of outright under powered.

@mortal falcon
Leo 1 is light tanks' levels of fast and doesn't even take on direct confrontation roles.
Most meds in general? okay.
AT15 doesn't have arguably worse armor, it is miles better with the cupola as a balancing factor which can be neglected with smart play. which is what balance is.

[mortal falcon]

first, the at15's armor is pretty mediocre. you bounce tier 7s, sure. to anyone that can aim, you don't really bounce anything with a tank riddled with weakspots (upper plate, rounded areas, the entire roof (which can be penned frontally on flat ground), etc.)

and the tank might be a bit underpowered, sure. but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

also, it should be noted that most prems used to be considered somewhat inferior to their techtree counterparts, a natural consequence as a result of them 1) buyable and 2) being used to earn credits. i'm all for a return to that sort of system. money should be used to speed up progress, not to compensate for a lack of skill.

@frail silo

@frail silo a tank that forces you to load gold isn't exactly what i call "balanced". though you can literally pen the at15 through the gun mantlet so it only works against people who 1) can't aim and 2) refuse to flank. though then again, that's most people 😳

also, again, when you pay for a tank in crates you are gambling/paying for early access. if you don't want to shell out that much, you wait for when wg releases it for a flat, semi-reasonable price. money shouldn't compensate for skill

[frail silo]

i do agree with you, however the amount of money being payed here is clearly is A LOT. tanks should be priced around their capabilities.
AT15's armor works if you use gun arc and hulldown, once you load premium ammo you can pen sure. but that is what a balanced armor profile is.
while the turtle can't do any of that so this is where the problem is.

@mortal falcon i ain't saying money should compensate for skill.
although flanking and learning weak spots can be neglected in the at15 by side hugging buildings and using the gun arc or hull down or reading the enemy. which is why it is a balanced tank, it has weak points that can be neglected with smart play and pays well when played well.
that simply isn't the case for Turtle Mk.1. also WG probably gonna release it for 8k gold at least so still not reasonable at all.
what can you do in the turtle mk.1 to neglect the weak super structure? nothing, lol.
with that mobility i don't think you wanna play a sniper in that tank either. it supposedly is a 2nd line tank, but it can't. hence under powered.

[jagged crescent]

The turtle's garbage lol. There's no reason to own one when both tech tree and substitutes like the jg88 are overwhelmingly superior

[vital basalt]

Turtle is very balanced, in fact, I'd say it's one of the most if not the most balanced premium at tier 8. The problem is in 2021 being a balanced premium is not good, Fcm, T44-100, Pz58 etc. all are very balanced but they're not good, the same situation happening to Turtle now

[drowsy plaza]

JT88 isn’t tech tree. It’s a Premium. The fact it’s a permanent premium that sits on the TT list doesn’t make it a premium.

Pz58 is actually pretty decent. Not broken like some - but it’s a good tank.

[ripe wyvern]

Anyone else feels like the KV-1 to be pretty meh as far as tier 5 heavies goes, I angle it but it seems to get penned anyways the front weak spot is massive (probably one of the biggest when compared to other tier 5 heavy tanks) , and when facing other tier 5 heavies in a 1v1 it seems to lose every single time, yeah it can work but it seems very underwhelming compared to other similar tanks in terms of armor, and the gun is decent but can have issues when dealing with heavy armor. And what's more is that it just dies no matter what when facing tier 6 guns meh, armor paper even angling, and mobility eh when facing such foes, I know heavy tanks aren't suppose to fight heavy tanks most of the time but the KV1 is pretty underwhelming as a wall that block enemies anyways so much so that it gets penned by just about everything unless the angle is extremely lucky or the enemy hits the track so when compared to similar tanks it is definitely bellow average

[prisma jetty]

Angle it up, it's not that hard. Then don't 1v1. Angle up at the front to block damage so your team can flank around and kill the other team. Heavy tanks are not supposed to deal with other heavies, with a few exceptions. They block the damage so the TDs and meds can deal damage while lights scout out the enemies

[nimble zodiac]

Be a shame if KV-1 was utterly incapable of blocking much damage

The best bet is hulldown

[prisma jetty]

It's unfortunate what the KV-1 has been reduced to

[mental pasture]

I was talking about that in #vehicles-discussion.

The tank itself now looks like a weird heavium with no mobility. Slight terrain angles makes 2/3 of your frontal armoe useless.
You want to sidescrape? Try to angle it perfectly, otherwise your sides will be easily penetrable.
Let's also mention that the gun is a shame, would be understandable if it was like this in order to save the armor.

[ripe wyvern]

Yeah I know right

[spiral bough]

Tbh it’s not that the KV-1 is meh, it’s more like the other tier V HTs are OP

[mental pasture]

The first statement is incorrect, the armor nerfs made it meh.
The secind statement is correct. KV-220, T1 Heavy and BDR.

[spiral bough]

The only part of it that got nerfed is part of the side armor from 75mm→57mm iirc. It’s still perfectly capable of sidescraping effectively against same-tier MTs using standard shells. It’s still unpennable even close to 30 degrees. So I think it’s balanced.

The fact that the other HTs are OP just makes it feel meh (well at the point it’s weaker than the others it technically is, but it’s not unbalanced unlike them)

[mental pasture]

Part of the frontal hull was nerfed iirc, you know that part supposed to make auto bounces? I don't recal it being 40mm thick.
Those sides may look like workable for a sidescraping heavy, but it's nothing better than a T29 side against T7 shells.

Once again, it's not because other heavies are OP, it's because the armor buff was completely unnecessary. Seriously, who had the incredible idea to nerf the sides to a tank supposed to teach you how to angle?

If the heavy HP buff didn't appear to "fix" this mistake with silver tape, then it wouldn't be a problem even for a Panzer 4 to outplay the tank.

[spiral bough]

Well I think we can both agree on the fact that WG makes weird balancing decisions, and that some tanks need buffs (or nerfs) depending on their current relevance on the field...

[jagged crescent]

If it was balanced then that implies that there's at least something going for it. The fire power isn't special. The armor doesn't even work as it's supposed to, regardless of ur hulldown capabilies, and the speed's atrocious. It's a dissapointing tank and some of the tanks that you listed are underwhelming tanks as well. Playable? Yes. But it's still garbage.

@drowsy plaza Also wym by "a permanent premium that sits on the TT list, doesn't make it a premium". Either way, the jg88's still a better Turtle in almost every single way.

[mental pasture]

"I'm going to compare a tank that have an overcooked armor in order to say that Turtle's armor is bad, only because it have 2 small weak weakspots."

That's your text in shorter lines.

[twin egret]

" standard inaccurate russian 122 is very very common, people are not going to hit these sections constantly."

casually lobs IS-5 shot into weakspot from 80m away

[spiral bough]

They make up more than half of the tank’s exposed surface when hull-down. Its atrocious mobility means that no amount of skill can cover them, and that’s the problem.

Btw the Jagdtiger’s armor can be easily penned with gold, so it’s actually a valid comparison, especially considering the fact that the two tanks play similarly.

[mental pasture]

Use the tank in it's full extensions. The 20 degrees of gun arc allows the vehicle to show the sides and remain in more than 300mm vs HEAT.

Make the maths now, because it's surely not 66%.

Also, it's way faster than T28 due to the power ratio and the precision is very good as for the reload time.
Having armor doesn't mean that you should play it like a Maus. Take second line and support. You've got precision for a reason.

Kid, check the sides, they are the 300mm when you angle like this.

[spiral bough]

300mm?? Sorry but I only see around 190...

And how often do you think that it’s going to be able to fight in this perfect environment? (Even then, it’s butter)

Ad hominems are not really a viable way to carry on with a discussion

[full token]

He meant the side I guess

[jagged crescent]

Why would you aim at the sides when the top area of the front free pen for even t7 guns

The armor simply doesn't work. The gun, although solid, isn't exceptional. The mobility is nonexistant. The flexibility isn't even useful considering how there's no way you can flex the gun towards the enemies without them hitting first and dipping.

It's just a bad tank, regardless of how well you maximize whatever strongpoints it has.

[mental pasture]

@spiral bough 190 is enough for troll shots, also, take some distance in second line. I also don't recomend you to stand still like a pancake when doing hull down, not every tank is IS-4ish. Even E5 have to wiggle and dance a bit, why wouldn't Turtle?

@jagged crescent and who said that ememies will want to shot the sides? Take a good range, wiggle and move. You'll see them hittinng the mantlet or the sides

Also, using you cannon in prder to defend the weakspot against HEAT is a good idea if someone is actually going to use HEAT.

I don't recommend you to talk about Ad Hominem when you also try to play smart "300? I only see 190" @spiral bough

[jagged crescent]

The e5 at least has the mobility to shift back and forth. The cheeks on the e5 are relatively stronger by a huge margin and they're smaller to boot.
The turtle's not going to do any of that soley either because of how slow it is as well.

The only time that wiggling would work is when you're fighting long distance. But again, there's other tanks that can do the same thing, and they probably have substantially better rotation ability as well.

And in response to:
and who said that enemies* will want to shot the sides?
You literally said:
Use the tank in it's full extensions . . . allows the vehicle to show the sides and remain in more than 300mm vs HEAT
This literally leaves two options, one is you implying that people will shoot at the sides, and the other is that somehow the 180mm of effective frontal armor is actuall 300m.

These spots are going to be an easy grey regardless of how well you wiggle.

Wargaming is more than capable of buffing the tank in a way that'll not only drag it out of dissapointing irrelevancy but still keep it balanced.

But until then, it's nothing more than a t8 badger that doesn't even benefit from having semi-respectable hulldown capabilities.

[mental pasture]

@jagged crescent Guns doesn't need to be exceptional in other to make a tank decent. It have it's pros, use them and you may see it working.
Well, that mobility is better than T28. Better be grateful for this, it could be worse.
There's no way to hit them first? That's situational and depends of the player. Not an undeniable truth.

You may think it's a bad tank, well, good for us. Better a bad premium than another overcooked beast, or you really want to repeat whay happened with Jagdtiger 8,8? Remember, WG don't nerf premiums nowadays.

@jagged crescent I'll answer you in the next comment, this one is k8nda big already.

[spiral bough]

@mental pasture
Faster than the T28, yes definitely, I can totally see that... Please do note that the T28 also gets the improved engine boost consumable.

I also don’t see the point in comparing it with a tank that’s unarguably one of the most underpowered in the game.

The point here is is the Turtle relevant or not, and therefore, it stands to reason that any comparisons made should be against similar tanks with an average tier-for-tier performance.

The problem is not dealing with “troll shots” made from 100m away, it’s about dealing with opponents who are actively aiming at your tank. All of the arguments you are making (gun blocking, wiggling) are being made under the assumption that the Turtle is capable of pulling them of, which it is not. And that’s the problem here.

I’m sorry but although I’m not the best player out there, I still do know my way around this game. All the arguments I make are made with the most basic knowledge (wiggling, sidescraping, etc.) applied.

I find it baffling that you would suddenly start talking about the side armor when we are obviously discussing the weak points in the frontal armor, then take my rebuke as an “ad hominem”.

No offense, but if you think that the JT8.8 is unbalanced, then I may as well be talking to a wall here...

Note:
Do check the publicly available stats on blitzhangar please, as it’s clear that the Turtle has one of the worst dispersions among tier 8 TDs.

https://blitzhangar.com/en/tank/turtle-mk-i

[jagged crescent]

• I agree that guns dont need to be exceptional in order to make the tank decent but that usually implies that theres something else that makes the tank stand out. The issue is the badger doesn't have anything else to complement the gun that it has. (Refer to Blitzhangar for the stats in comparision to other t8 tds)
• You won't always be hit first but considering the dissapointing armor layout, it's most definitely going to be a high probability considering you literally have to expose the weakest part of ur armor first in order to actually take a shot.
• Of course the mobility can be worse. Just because it's better than the mobility of a t28 doesn't justify how unmobile it is,
• And of course nobody wants an overcooked premium (aside from the owners). But I don't think anybody wants an undercooked premium either and WG doesn't have to make the future(?) hypothetical turtle buffs drastic enough to suddenly make it go from dissapointing to broken.

wow... WG's censors are actually stupid.

[mental pasture]

@jagged crescent E5 have mobility? Nothing impressive, it's an american heavy, most of them are relatively agile
E5 cheeks are stronger? Cool, but I really don't recommend you to stand still while in hull down with it, otherwise you'll have the same fate of a Turtle.

Not only long distances, but medium distances too. I'm experienced enough with tanks that has this same kind of weakspots too. M6A2E1 EXP and the famous side armor on the front or the turret cheeks are examples of how wiggling is effective.

Yes, people will shot the sides, it doesn't necessarily says that they wanted to hit that part. That's what wiggling is supposed to do.

Wiggling tank was never supposed to make a weakspot strong, it's about making it harder to hit the weakspot.

I don't think so, look what they made to Jagdtiger 8,8.

Wow, basically 'a tank that does have weakspots and it's not like thhe T10 version. It's so bad, omg, would be better if it was tottaly a concrete block.'

You're the next @spiral bough

[mental pasture]

I don't know if you ever played the T28 with the engine boost. Surprisingly enough, the boost is kinda useless. You're going to make no difference at all going only more 8 km/h for 15 seconds. I don't recommend using it and neither the T28.

Yes, T28 is the most underpowered tank in the game nowadays. But is it my fault that you guys are pinning the Turtle to be a utter useless tank on T28 style?

The relevancy of the vehicle in a battle is all up to the player and how the players work with the vehicle. Some tanks are harder to use and other tanks are easier. Other times it's a decent tank, but the player thinks it belongs to a playstyle that it doesn't do well. Yes it stands for a comparison, mostly with the tank known to be the most useless if you guys are going to pin Turtle as a total useless vehicle.

It's possible to do the "wiggle and move' trick even with T95, why can't you do it in Turtle? Allow me to do another question: Is the Turtle who can't do it or the player that can't/refuses to do it?

Not relevant, maybe even less relevant as Turtle on the way you say.

JT8,8 have an undeniable overcooked armor as like Tiger 2, will you deny it?

I trust Blitz stars way more, once Blitz Hangar have some weird discrepancies.

You're the next
@jagged crescent

[jagged crescent]

I'm literally stating that at least the e5 has sufficient enough parameters to mitigate its "weak" turret cheeks and somehow you missed the entirety of that.

Again, I am not denying that the turtle can wiggle. You can do that with any tank with glaring weakspots. But the difference is the turtle can't do it as efficiently as other tanks. It's mobility Is at the bottom. The size of the police bar is huge. Of course you can wiggle but they're still relatively easy targets.

Why are you trying to compare it to the t95 considering how much harder it is to hit the t95's cupolas in comparision to what the turtle has. It's relatively easier to wiggle the weakspots of a t95 becase they're relatively harder to hit

You can gold the jg88's supercase mate and ufp.

And please do not use the "it's up to the player". That only works to an extent and if it takes an excruitiatingly huge amount of effort to maximize what a tank is capable of, especially in comparision to what it takes to make another tank good, and for how rewarding that might be, then something obviously needs to be touched on.

And no, this isn't a cry to "omg buff it so it becomes op again". Idk where you got that from either.

@mental pasture

[spiral bough]

For the T28, the improved engine boost is best used for buffing your traverse. When used as such, it is possible under certain circumstances to shoot without sustaining damage, or to avoid a CoD.

I would like to point out that nobody mentioned the T28 before you did.

Relevancy is determined by whether the vehicle is able to effectively perform its intended role. The Turtle is obviously unable to do this.

The T95 has a substantially better armor profile compared to the Turtle, so any comparisons made are moot. It would be more convincing if you used for example, the Tortoise as a comparison model.

As I said before, the JT8.8, while being immune to standard rounds, are an easy pen for same-tier gold. Definitely not OP in my book.

If you prefer Blitzstars, then feel free to compare all tier 8 TDs in Blitzstars, I’m sure that you’ll find the exact same results.

I’m sorry, but looking at your comments (as well as those in response to the other players), I’m afraid I get the impression that there is no productive discussion to be had by talking with you any further.

[mental pasture]

You've got precision, enough armor to do mid-range support, and a good numner of shots per minute. That's basically the usual British TD profile. Try it instead of acting like a T95, it may work.

Saying who will hit first is too situational and depends of a lot of values. I can't accept this. I can explain just a few values in your DPM if you want an explanation.

I don't recall saying that Turtle mobility is good, correct me if I'm wrong. I just said that it's better than T28 in therms of mobility. T28's mobility is enough to support your allies at a good distance (not a safe distance considering that the tank is horrible)

I know that none here wants an over cooked premium, but so what? WG balances things on the way they want, if they want to remove all weakspots from Turtle due to much people complaining about it, they simply can.

You're the next again @N.Z.#1459, but I don't want to waste more time once it's 5:03 AM and I want to sleep.
Wait, no, I simply have to answer that last comment.

[jagged crescent]

I don't see any point in this discussion so I'm just going to repeat what i've said in the past because you're likley either going to be attempting to be:

1. correcting people on faulty comparisions that you introduced (see t28, t95, and e5) in the first place,
2. distorting my words into a blanket statement ("remove all weakspots, make it overcooked") and liken it to the words of other people so that it can fit your refutation better
3. repeat the same argument again and again.

Anyways:
-"Of course the mobility can be worse. Just because it's better than the mobility of a t28 doesn't justify how unmobile it is,"
*-"You won't **always *be hit first but considering the dissapointing armor layout, it's most definitely going to be a high probability considering you literally have to expose"
-"Again, I am not denying that the turtle can wiggle. You can do that with any tank with glaring weakspots. But the difference is the turtle can't do it as efficiently as other tanks. It's mobility Is at the bottom. The size of the police bar is huge. Of course you can wiggle but they're still relatively easy targets. "

Have a good sleep.

[mental pasture]

You got all wrong, and honestly, I hate when someone as stubborn as me says that "there's no productive discussion to be had by talking to you any further."
We are literally using the head on the same way, but with different sides.

Also, you got all wrong, allow me to explain.

Sorry to break your expectations, but the engine boost is worthless even for saving you in circling situations, I've passed through thus same situation today and also yesterday.

Yes, that's undeniable, but it's also undeniable that you and Work_ethic are pinning the tank to be extremely bad, shaw I recall some comments?

• Work_Ethic saying that the armor doesn't work as it's supposed to, regardless of the hull down capabilities and the speed which is atrocious.
  You saying that no amount of skill can cover them (talking about the weakness)

Sorry, but when I talked about T95, I wasn't talking about it's armor. I was saying that even this tank that runs with 16km/h with max speed can do the wiggle trick. Turtle have move top speed, better transverse and better acceleration, it's tottaly capable of wiggling.

According to Blitz Stars, Turtle have about 70% of WR due to our famous try harders, and allow me to recall something
"...No amount of skill can cover them, and that's the problem."

I'm done for today, I don't want to lose my morning sleep for an argue about 3D models that probably none of us have. Thx @N.Z.#1459
Damn I've decided to lose more 10 minutes only because you said a lot of things about me, that's surely promising.

[distant river]

"It's armour is useless even tier 6s can pen it whenever it exposes"

But wait, no it isn't?
The armour works adequately.
It has the same speed as the turtle.
And it needs to use its armour more because of its puny alpha.

So
Erm
What's the problem?

(For reference the cupola on the AT is about the side of the right uppermost plate on the turtle, and the gun mantlet is about the same size as the left uppermost plate)

The AT15 also has to deal with 230mm of front armour away from the weakspots up to 260 with gun arc, whereas the turtle gets 260/380 away from weakspots head on/using gun arc.

It's almost as if the tank is fine 🤔

[jagged crescent]

oh yeah i'm pretty sure the turtle got nerfed (before release) during testing, in reflectance of the 70% WR and feedback that the hyper units were getting. tbf they average 70% on most test tanks anyways

Also Imma alter my old statement (i forgot which) and just say that the tank isn't exactly garbage but it definitely needs a little something in order for it to be a bit more balanced.

[mental pasture]

@jagged crescent 1) Stating that T28, T95 can wiggle even if they are much slower, or even the E5 needs to wiggle at some time.
Hull down isn't only sitting and expecting that enemies won't hit a weakspot. Ain't I right?

2. making mere jokes about the situation, of people complaining that a tank wave weakness on the top armor, is surelly worth some sarcasm.

3. Don't play like that, it's not like you've repeated too. If you have the tank, I doubt that you tried to wiggle and move effectively, otherwise you wouldn't complain a lot about the weakspots. It's worth to repeat sometimes, even I have to repeat things for myself sometimes.

Once again, tell me when you said that it's mobility is good. It's not. But if a T28 which is slower can wiggle and move, Turtle also can.

Being the first to take a hit depends of your enemies turret position (back, middle, or front), how it appears (sidescrape, peek and boom, hit and run), in thhe distance that you're at (the enemy may shot first, but what if he miss?). There's too much values to say thay you'll get hit first because of the weakspot.

T28 can, what's your excuse to don't do it?

Damn, how lucky are we? At least try hards won't be 70% on it again. It usually means something when too much try hards have that high WR.

Well, that's it for this morning, thanks for the conversion about a tank that none of us have.

[jagged crescent]

eeenie meenie mynee moe

[frail silo]

260/380 what?
the big flat part is still 180-190mm
?? that with the weak lower plate.

this is using max gun arc and gun dep btw

@distant river except the weak exposed part of the turtle is still bigger than that of the AT15 and much easier to hit?

[distant river]

The flat part is the weakspot, I'm not talking about that. That is just like the cupola and gun mantlet weakspot on the AT15, which still does fine (or more than fine) despite having to expose twice as much

I have no idea what you are talking about at all now, they are clearly similar sizes. For reference the AT15 weakspots are even weaker than the turtles. While the turtle can wiggle and block with the mantlet, the weakspot is the mantlet on the AT15 so it's much harder block shots with, especially with the worse traverse.

Meanwhile as I said earlier, the rest of the front of the turtle is much stronger.

It's not a good tank. It's not an awful tank. It has weakspots. It's fine how it is. How many times do I have to repeat this????

[frail silo]

turtle can wiggle, with that mobility yeah i can tell.
the gun mantlet of the turtle isn't even big enough to reliably call wiggling with it effective or anything but a desperate attempt.
in the optimal position for AT and turtle AT gets better weakspots to deal with(half the mantlet and a relatively not so big cupola).
while the turtle gets the big flat top with the lower plate to try and hide or wiggle with(not gonna happen).
and considering the general public of the player base i don't think they know know of the mantlet weakspot. but i guess with the new armour highlight that is not relevant anymore.
i think the main driving factor here is WG finally releasing a not game breaking or over powered premium tank in tier 8.
i don't see us agreeing so fair enough.

[sudden path]

The problem with slow turretless tds is that you have extremely limited flexibility and often the battle progresses without your input because you simply cannot get there. While this doesnt happen every game, it happens enough to be a problem. Remembering this, I would take the at15s armor over the turtles by a mile, simply because the at15 requires pramo in most cases to pen while the turtle has the flat weakspot that most tanks will go through with ap. Basically you bounce noobs consistently who shoot ap vs sometimes bouncing them while your armor is dependant on people not aiming, even more so then the at15.

Also the gun on the at15 is a monster, you have the best accuracy in the game and 4k dpm.

I dont think I would ever play the turtle when I can grind the at15, especially when I have to gamble for the turtle. Neither of these tanks are my playstyle anyways just because I dont like slow turretless tds(inserts joke about turretless autocorrecting to turtle)

[low hollow]

Why are you using confrontation against a t5? This is a tier 8 and when facing off against them the turtles armour is literally worthless atleast you can hide the tumour ontop of the at15 and wiggle the gun and tank to block shots into the mantle you can’t hide the upper bar on the turtle which will be the first thing shown before you can even make a shot...

[minor minnow]

Wait so you’re telling me I could just shoot the mantlet instead of aiming for the cupola this whole time

[winged barn]

Yup

[minor minnow]

******* hell

[drowsy plaza]

Yeah it’s between 77-120mm.

But if you’re shooting it there odds are it’s ripping into you too unless you’re a hulldown monster using depression

This is my preferred angle on the AT series

[winged barn]

Ew, why shoot the good rear armor

[distant river]

To show where the easy pen weakspots are and how large they are even to a tier 6 light. The turtle has similar sized weakspots. The turtle has stronger weakspots and a much better profile over the rest of the tank. With the AT15 you can hide the cupola, but if you want to shoot you have to show the mantlet no matter what. With the turtle, you can hide half the top plate, but you have to show one half of it no matter what. Hmm similar isn't it? The turtle has a mantlet that it can use to bounce shots, the AT15 can not. The turtle is also better at wiggling because of its significantly better traverse. Expose across a ridge like in the pic, rotate 15°, shoot, rotate back out again and you have exposed your weak area for around a second maximum while dealing 330 damage. Go back behind cover and repeat.

Thankfully it's not an E3 at tier 8, it's a tort at tier 8. Not a good tank but playable for sure and definitely not needing noobproofing.

[unique scaffold]

when is annhiliator getting balanced?

[edgy crag]

just don't play tier 6
anni will never get 'rebalanced'

[mental pasture]

We don't know.

[flat bane]

Based

[drowsy plaza]

It’s balanced by most of its players being shameless clowns. Most anyone beyond mediocre play ability with a shred of decency doesn’t play it.

[unique scaffold]

Mostly annoying lower tier in meds or lights when you loose 600 in a sec...

[gray knot]

Sun Tzu once said, to defeat the enemy you must become the enemy, that's the point

[sweet prism]

Don't worry WG will change the point of focus soon
Next broken halloween tank coming in 4 months

[full token]

It will balance the smasher and annihilator

[flat bane]

Chimera Action Xnihilator: T7 Halloween tank :(

[full token]

Make it a tier 8 so tier 8 can get bullied too

[versed tide]

Where smasher shark and 252u

[flat bane]

Smashark 52U

[rare sleet]

Yeah its a 252U hull with a Shark turret and a very good 152mm

[scarlet fjord]

IS-7 480 alpha for fun

[nimble zodiac]

Gotta fix that damage dip in WG's stats ;)

[scarlet fjord]

Perhaps

[nimble zodiac]

Here, as you can see, we have a pack of IS-7 dips, all the way from 7.2, entering the channel... truly astounding...

Luckily that single, more even dip is the most recent

[scarlet fjord]

kek
when WG give a heavium one of the worst tier 10 heavy tank guns

[remote oriole]

The ‘v’ in the pictures stands for “fine” 😛

[drowsy plaza]

Honestly I think the IS-7 is decently balanced.

The problem is the over performing heavies

[remote oriole]

I agree, the IS-7 only seems weak in terms of damage output because its peers are too strong

[midnight fable]

hey! IS7 doesn't perform as well as the most op heavies. Therefore, it must be buffed!!!

[dark glen]

Its the mentality of nearly everyone, it’s to weak, BUFF IT ALREADY. it has a weakspot, REMOVE IT ALREADY.

[candid steeple]

Well IS-7 has higher alpha then most heavies and it has slightly better penetration then all of the heavies. Hull is the only problem for IS-7 but ain't it the problem with all tanks from it's line.

[unique scaffold]

Buff the Armor of Turtle mk 1 plz

[nimble zodiac]

Not that I want a buff, it's just I don't like the ability of the other heavies to be the damage dealers

The standard penetration is sufficient, but not the best of them, and the premium ammo works, it's just people would rather the overkill no-skill prammo that other heavies have

[leaden flare]

yeah but WG isnt reacting to those calls but does stuff like Spall liner for grille

like ive never seen a decent person ask for spall liner on grille or reticle cali we wanted a camo or mobility buff afaik

even tho i admit in a second of weakness long time ago i suggested smth like that when spall liner wasnt even a thing iirc

[versed tide]

Spall liner baby proofed grille line and made waffle over the op line. I mean we should get to nerfing before we get it buffing any tanks

[mental pasture]

I miss when my HE in 120mm guns used to do a decent damage instead of something almost like AP.

[leaden flare]

Imagine being a kpz trying to utilize it's horrible HE and rolling below your heat AVG constantly when shooting at a waffle

[mental pasture]

120mm AP + penetration = 400 damage
120mm HE + penetration = 515 damage
120mm HE + penetration + Spall Liner (-20%) = 412 damage
HE = AP with way less penetration, cheaper, bigger module damage. Not useful at all.
I wouldn't risk this factor due to the way less penetration, but I'll count it.

170mm AP + penetration = 800
170mm HE + penetration = 1200
170mm HE + penetration + Spall Liner (-20%) = 960
152mm HE + penetration = 960
170mm HE+ Spall liner = 152mm HE
I'd say it's interesting.

[nimble zodiac]

Wouldn't HE grab more module damage with the radius? I guess that could be a pro for it

[craggy kayak]

And

[nimble zodiac]

And I'd rather they just buff the Grille and not continue with these silly provisions, the camo is still calling, but the Grille works. It wasn't needed

[minor minnow]

Honestly I’d love a depression buff for the grille

[zealous vessel]

Hey guys! What's better the Turtle Mk.1 or the Kanonenjagdpanzer 105?

[mental pasture]

Kanonenjagdpanzer105

[thick raft]

I played with rhm a lot and i can say it wasn't needed to give it a -20% HE damage, it's also the same for Foch tanks and the cupola buff, wargaming buffs the weak things about tanks which is awkward because they should be weak on something

[nimble zodiac]

Sad they buffed Foch's super weakspot instead of IS-7's

[low hollow]

“Much better profile” the situations where the turtles armour are more effective than the at15s simply do not exist. Open field people will just shoot the lower plate, hull down people will just shoot you into the top bar both of these weakpoints are significantly easier to hit than those on the at and can’t be as easily mitigated. Like with the mantle weakpoint you can wiggle your gun along with the hull making it much less likely people will hit the weakpoint

[mental pasture]

We've got a completely different situation now.
Both are equally unnarmored at close ranges, but in a 150 meters situation and both tanks wiggling and moving they, with no doubt, become reliable sources of heavily armored support.

[rare sleet]

Just buy a JgTig.8,8 cm insead

[midnight talon]

You ain’t kidding.

[twin egret]

Why does Calibrated Retical last 20 seconds? while everything else lasts 15

[mental pasture]

@rare sleet Indeed, I can't argue against this.

@twin egret Who knows?

[crimson dagger]

I really would like to see the Sheridan go without a nerf every single patch as it is now becoming less capable than it should be for its type of tank. Thank you

[uneven narwhal]

Sheridan doesn't even need a nerf, or even a buff tbh
It's perfectly fine as it is

[mental pasture]

I guess that @crimson dagger was talking about the armor highlights update. It'll mark spaced armor without primary armor as red, so you can avoid those areas.
Technically, it's a nerf on Sheridan.

[crimson dagger]

I was referring to the overall subtle armament dispersion nerfs as well as its manoeuvrability considering its application of power to weight ratio being much better than it is performing in game. As per previous versions of the tank. Not to mention it’s viewrange nerf

[full token]

It hasn’t been touched for some time

[twin egret]

they should nerf it more, maybe get rid of the 152mm next

[nimble zodiac]

Ah yes, the only real purpose, like T49's

[unique scaffold]

Imagine needing every tank in the game to make the turtle mk 1 better (just a joke)

[thick rover]

and my foch :(( heh

[twin egret]

2014-2016 blitz was way more fun than now

[scarlet fjord]

it has the worst penetration for heavy wdym lol

[full token]

Just the prammo. The ap is good

[distant river]

Go put a gun with decent pen against the and you'll see what I mean. Idk why on earth you think they are significantly easier to hit because that's clearly a lie as I showed in my last message. Also if you are in an open field then that is a huge driver issue not a tank so why even talk about the lower plate. Wiggling the gun does nothing (wow 100mm or 0mm of armour great difference, oh and 40mm of tiny gun to help that's sooooo useful I bet all tier 8s will struggle to pen 140mm of armour max) whereas the turtle with much higher traverse speeds can actually wiggle usefully.

[low hollow]

Being in an open field matters because you are not always in position. As for the weakpoints being easier to hit, they literally are due to them being larger as you can see in the screen shot.

[candid steeple]

Gotta love to see people requesting for a tank to have no spots to pen because that too weak then. Yeah let the game do all the work for you while you require no creativity. I mean this is pretty much how WG is destroying the game. With this concept. Buff armor for everything to be red and that's it (jags, tier VII VI V heavies and so on). I would rather have my fav tank being weaker then seeing each game toxic tanks to fight again. But that's only me right since most people don't understand that all red is terrible choice but oh well.

[sudden granite]

I don’t understand it, first people cry about broken premiums being released, then the moment wg releases a premium which is worse than the tech tree counterpart (as it should be) people still cry. Like, sorry what?

[unique scaffold]

What about nerf t29?

[spiral bough]

For the Turtle I think it’s mainly because it has more armor on WoT PC. Armor on a specific point of the tank which could potentially greatly impact how the tank performs. Yeah I know, different game different tanks, but still, it’s understandable to compare the two. You don’t really see people crying about the STG because it can still make up for its nerfed pen with its mobility.

As a side note, it’s true the AT15 has that huge weak spot on the mantlet, but it’s also true that most of the player base aren’t aware of it, so hence try to pen the cupola. Dunno how it is in other servers but that’s how it works in Asia at least. Tbh I myself wasn’t aware of this till it was pointed out here.

If you ignored the mantlet the Turtle has the bigger weak spot. Therefore most players would reach the conclusion that the Turtle is a significantly softer tank.

Knowing about the mantlet weak spot now, I can see that the armor-wise the Turtle could be argued to be as equally (or more) workable in comparison to the AT15.

But the fact that most are unaware of this difference, and hence that the Turtle is at a great disadvantage in regards to soft area, does not change. I also believe that the AT15 is more resistant (including gold) due to the complicated nature of its armor profile in comparison to the simple, single-sheet slope of Turtle. So my stance that the Turtle is not undeserving of a slight buff doesn’t change either.

(I believe a majority of the people asking for a buff are doing so under the same premise, so maybe that’s why this discussion keeps repeating itself)

[full token]

The lesson to learn is putting out op tanks that outperform tech tree tanks is good. If not that, premium tanks should always be better than tech tree tanks, or else they’re considered the worst tanks in the tier rather than just an average/below average tank

It was a joke 😦

[teal palm]

I’ve noticed that
Honestly it’s probably for the better since on PC it’s ridiculously strong along with the LT 432 which also got a massive nerf and is now quite balanced

[sudden granite]

Ik, the clown emoji wasn’t directed towards u

[unique scaffold]

If turtle had the same specs as the wot pc version. Would be op

I remember trying to hit a light tank wih ap in the Rhm and accidentally hit the Turtle Mk1 in the top and killed it

[minor minnow]

??? Someone pinged?

[twin egret]

I don't even try shooting the gun mantlet, it's so troll for me to shoot at since either the mantlet absorbs the shell or the shell actually goes through

[twin egret]

most of the time the gun mantlet absorbs it

[radiant spoke]

Harb

[unique scaffold]

blitz is no PC variant ! many tanks have more shells and do 300 dmg more as others , for 7 vs 7 is 300 dmg 1/6 hp on tank and game have no tool for counter ! some tanks do 300/310 but many broken tanks do 800/900 what is no fair and is frustration even watch no play !

[rustic hemlock]

Sounds like skill issue

[jolly panther]

Idea on how to balance the new track system; once the track is broken, you have to stay still to fix them, if you move backwards the timer resets

[thick rover]

Is it op?

[full token]

There’s zero drawback to it so it’s a bit too good

[twin egret]

don't play wotb then, problem solved . :itreallydobelikethatsometimes:

[jagged crescent]

lol

[craggy kayak]

Don't play👺

[uneven narwhal]

I love how you call the Jageroo and FV215b 183 as broken when the former is a decent tank and the latter is garbage
Why are you even complaining lmao

[rare trellis]

Uh huh

[light linden]

i think the st emil should have a mobility buff. i mean 10hp/t and 25km/h max speed (which you almost never get to) is complete arbage

[pseudo hedge]

no let him play. player like him are the reason I have 5K damage games in my deathstar so often lmao

[rare trellis]

Question will the machine gun/guns on the tank will anyone of those will be able to shoot that would be cool having ppl control them WG

[pseudo hedge]

they wouldn't have enough penetration anyways so it's pointless

[rare trellis]

Would be cool tho something different you know more fire power lmao

[orchid grove]

Although, the .50 cal on the T7 Combat Car has 43mm of pen in this game, so something like the 14.5mm KPV machine gun on the IS-7 could feasibly have like 50 or so pen, and actually punch through some really thinly armored targets

[full token]

Nerf

[winged barn]

Technically, yes. Effectively, no

[full token]

Its a collector so it doesnt mean a lot

[unique scaffold]

Only think I want is a buff on turtle mk 1 weakspots. Fun fact: the video of the trailer of turtle tank was before it got nerf during testing. How I know is I have been watching people who are able to use this tank. Ex: that one youtuber

[uneven narwhal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/502022403497656340/836477800898101249/unknown.png

Yes I sent a SS of my messages in #maps-discussion coz I'm too lazy to copy paste the message
Now this has not been given too much thought, so don't go all out aggressive on me

[leaden flare]

North still has a serious disadvantage because getting the hill is much harder
You only have a very narrow path to shoot at B due to the tower up there blocking your fov

[fallow eagle]

Mines in general is very boring
Get a hulldown tank and you can play it properly
Playing in meds or lights with bad depression or weak armor becomes difficult

[twin egret]

fair point, let him play lel

[mental pasture]

I tried to play SU-122-44 on mines, but it becomes way harder to play as a medium there.

[spare notch]

The SU-122-44 is not designed to be played has an medium

[winged barn]

Sure, other than it being a medium with a big gun.

[mental pasture]

Sure, you don't play it like a medium, you play it like a medium with a big gun.

[drowsy plaza]

Tedium

[mental pasture]

I feel like Crusader6 is just waiting for someone starts to breaking rules, just waiting concealed behind this Idle status.

[minor minnow]

Crusader6 [-EXP-] NA is typing…

[uneven narwhal]

He's sitting with a sniper after all

[scarlet fjord]

man it makes me kind of frustrated like i want to play a medium tank but like it has to be op compared to its peers for it to be viable over heavies
like STB-1 121 62a etc you cant just grab a patton and not care
the "op" might be an exaggeration but you probably get me
i miss the time when your average medium tank was actually average

[mental pasture]

I struggle a lot by playing my E50M and Bat Chat, but I guess it's because I didn't git gud yet. I'm no medium tank sommelier, but I know how an E100 or E5 can affect any medium tank.
As a medium I'm only a big deal while using a tier 6 or 7, otherwise I can't call myself a decent medium tank driver.

[unique scaffold]

I am only good at playing TD's and heavy's

[vocal quail]

AT 2 I think has a little bit too much front armor

[sharp saddle]

The frontal armour is fine. The tank is rather sluggish, so it is not difficult to play around it and avoid frontal engagements

[drowsy plaza]

@mental pasture @scarlet fjord I do better in Patton and 50M that ‘better’ meds.

[mental pasture]

But I guess it's because I didn't git gud yet.

[drowsy plaza]

I think my STB is just cursed.

But more likely I’m more attentive in the Patton and 50M than I am in the others.

[sharp saddle]

I adore the E 50M

[prisma jetty]

Hehe ram time

[nimble zodiac]

25mm side armor go brrrr

[scarlet fjord]

maybe its just your playstyle suits those tanks better
I came to this realization because i just fought a decent E50 player with an IS-8 i made him look like a tier 8 tank it was a joke of a fight
just how ridiculous heavy tanks are right now

[mental pasture]

Well, my rating for about how meds act against heavies is: atomic pain/10

[supple barn]

Sort out rigged mm

[nimble zodiac]

Rather impossible considering it isn’t

[wispy arrow]

No, he means he wants WG to rig MM. read it properly smh

[gleaming apex]

[-WLV-] ProfesserSpagetti#4674 was muted

[outer glen]

Add improved engine booster in 183 branch

[twin egret]

no

[full token]

183 chases you down when you think you’re outrunning it

[unique scaffold]

nerf smasher is joke and lie on players

[uneven narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/clapping-clapping-hands-sarcasm-sarcastic-clap-sarcastic-clapping-gif-15400979

[unique scaffold]

Nerf the *** ARL 44.

[scarlet fjord]

man as a player that spams 183
op speed boost will solve all its problems xd
I'm using regular speed boost as is its just gonna be a direct buff by 2x on the speed booster

[nimble zodiac]

It should have problems tho

[twin egret]

Overclocked Improved Engine Boost, +16km forwards, -20km backwards, 8 seconds

[rustic hemlock]

Really? Its already balanced lol

[full token]

It’s quite op

[crystal halo]

Only the pen

[nimble zodiac]

The armor combination is also much better than almost every other heavy, VK 36.01 H is probably the only stand-up to ARL

[leaden bluff]

me - i play blitz on pc,mobile

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold I don’t understand what you are saying (again).

[dark pike]

so are the yohs really strong

[full token]

its a bit broken to do 900 in 1.7s

[opaque hedge]

Wargaming plz never nerf the Smasher

[dusky anchor]

Can the FV215b get a hit point buff, russian tanks have 2,650 and this only has 2,150 yet again russian tank bias -_-

[safe rapids]

Plus the armor sort of sucks, it needs 2300 at least.2150 is Tier IX heavy HP. Personally a high-ish number of 2450 or something is good as it has HP to take hits.

[winged barn]

Wait until you learn about german tanks...

[unique scaffold]

Ok. It’s front armour cannot be penned by M6,VK H/P, Nashorn, jgpz, Wolverine, etc. And it’s reload and damage output is way to high. It reloads to fast and then does with infinite pen. 220 damage.

[quasi axle]

If you can't pen with nashorn then you're just not aiming

[twin egret]

shoot the tracks, they have the same weakspot as british heavy tanks

[unique scaffold]

Ok

[old tree]

Is the turtle mk 1 worth it?

[mental pasture]

Indeed

@old tree No, for 2 reasons

• It's gambling.
• It's just an average tank.

[leaden flare]

pls gib new channel dedicated to solving the riddles it posts into balance discussion

[drowsy plaza]

@unique scaffold shoot turret cheeks - easy pen even for most tier 5. Or the sides or the rear or…

[twin egret]

A channel for Ribble to have some fun trying to solve.... Riddles

[unique scaffold]

Give M VII yoh a stronger ammo rack . I got detonated 2 times today . :|

[full token]

Use the provision and equipment that protects the ammorack

[unique scaffold]

The tier 8/9 yoh need reduced pen

[unique scaffold]

I dont realy wanna spend more credits caus i have enought of them to buy the t8 instandly after getting the last 60k xp

[twin egret]

so when will the charts for 7.9 be posted for #devs-answers

[full token]

T32 is now a very good heavy 🙂

[unique scaffold]

And the t26e4 is still anoying. Why cant they take away a bit of its frontal armor

[prisma jetty]

Because the tank has bad mobility, only a decent gun, and the turret has an easily penneable roof and hatches

[unique scaffold]

Then they can give it better mobility and a weeker lower plate.or they tag it as a heavy.

[prisma jetty]

I mean, it's pretty balanced as is, if not a little under powered

[nocturne mauve]

That tank is honestly awful once you get to play it

[full token]

Nice against noobs, since they don’t aim well. There’s a lot of noobs usually

[dense walrus]

if I'm going against noobs I'd much rather have a tank with actual mobility and a good gun

[prisma jetty]

Ah, so another tier 8 med such as a Chimera or Prog which should get a nerf, not the Super Pershing

[orchid grove]

that tank is terrible

Also, the armor is weaker than the hitskin suggests. It's only ~200mm effective, so even if it shows as red, most tier 8s will have no issue penning the hull

[winged barn]

Decent gun? The Spersh? Compared to what, tier 7s?

[midnight fable]

@winged barn @orchid grove
When was the last time you guys played it?

[orchid grove]

Today actually. I had a pretty good game in it, but it's still terrible

[unique scaffold]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The only thing "Super" about the Super Pershing is the regret you feel after buying or playing it.

[nimble zodiac]

Super bad tank =)

[winged barn]

Dunno, it's been a while.
Because there is 0 reason to play it.

[thick raft]

I bought it and i regret it just like you said, it's been like what 5 months or something, and i have only something like 12 games in it lol

[midnight fable]

Never regretted it 1 second.

[twin egret]

it's like missing the 2nd armour plate on the front of the hull or something
the spaced armour plate that's in between the actual ront hull and the thicker spaced armour plate

[mental pasture]

The Pershing spaced armor is literraly scraped armor from Panthers, so I think it makes to allow this spaced armor be as strong as the Panther 1 in it's current form.
Even tho, I wonder if it would make the Super Pershing over cooked.

Understandable, have a great day.

[winged barn]

Nope, the gun, mobility, and armor will still be trash.

[prisma jetty]

The plating on the turret is scrapped panther armor, the armor on the hull is just boiler plate, but it is 2 layers combines with the pershing's original armor so it's still quite strong in theory. Along with a long barrel 90mm, it should have decent firepower. The only let down of it was the mobility which all pershings struggled with, so it makes sense it would be slow. The gun could use a little more punch, even with it being a 90mm

[mental pasture]

The 90mm gun would be stronger in tier 7, as for the armor, but that definetly would make the tank op. Also, WG would never change the tier from a tier 8.

[scarlet fjord]

it was kinda sad when i outpaced tier 9 patton (forgot its name) with an IS-7 to my position xd

[unique scaffold]

Revert the HP buff for heavy 😫

[nimble zodiac]

M-VI-Yoh, never having gotten a buff, but starting out with lots of HP: hehe yeah boiii

[scarlet fjord]

i wouldn't say revert hp buff but make it balanced or just nerf multiple other aspects
i think their idea heavies having more hp makes perfect sense to me its just WG overdid it waay too much

[twin egret]

I miss 2015.... heavies were more so balanced

[winged barn]

Yes. We need Soviet ufo meta again

[dreamy oar]

I mean, we have the annihilator and smashers at t7. I don’t think having an easy accessible tank to counter them wouldnt be too bad

[ruby dagger]

Please buff the dpm on the M-VI-Yoh, because the T57 seems to be a way better tank right now. I would also suggest giving the 105mm gun a 4th shell to make it more unique.

[dark pike]

no

[autumn zodiac]

The DPM on the 105 is insane it doesn't need a buff

[ripe wyvern]

Alright I still really think the kv1 and kv1s are both very weak heavy tanks for their tier and might need some frontal armor buffs atleast, the front weakspot of them both are at least twice the size of their peers, and their guns are meh as well, especially stock on the kv1s (because grinding out of that 76mm at tier 6 is actual agony) plus the top gun reloads slow. Also for the kv1s their armor even if angled (it's just a kv1 with extra 5mm sides in exchange for fighting tier 6 guns) is actual trash at tier 6 especially if you are unlucky enough to face tier 7 heavies and anyways the pen of the top gun often can't even penetrate the lower glacis plates of those tanks. And I can swear the turret of the kv1s gets penned from halfway across the map at the weirdest angles by TDs and Heavies.

[full token]

Top gun reloads slow because it has 400 alpha

[safe rapids]

KV-1S is designed to have poor armor. It's fast and has a big gun, it should bully mediums and clean up near the end of battle. Save your HP in it.
KV-1 feels a bit powercrept imo, but it still is really good. It has the highest HP of any Tier V Tech Tree heavy now, and still punches with the 85 mm gun and decent mobility, plus it sidescrapes well.
You won't like most of the IS-7 line if you don't like the KV-1S. I personally loved the IS, IS-3, and even the IS-8 isnt half-bad.

[nimble zodiac]

KV-1 has been both nerfed and powercrept, the only armor it has left is autobounce and the turret. The gun was nerfed terribly, and remains inconsistent and on par with the damage against other tier 5 heavies. The mobility doesn’t save it. It’s not really good. At all.

[scarlet fjord]

the tank is a heavium its a ridiculous tank just play like a med with broken alpha at close range ita more than fast enough i contest annihilators in that thing and after the nerf on its already op pen for a dpm buff (what it really lacked) i would 100% call it op specially with heavy tank hps u want armor on that?

[ripe wyvern]

The thing is, at higher tier you would be mostly facing heavy tank anyways, and against those the kv1s gets obliterated because it is seen as an easy target and possible threat if it pens, other than the stock grind which is horrendously bad, I haven't really felt like the mobility saves it anyways plus you know tier 7 stuff still destroys it no matter what. Also kv2 are still there to deletes 90% of your hp from the front and looks down upon your decisions.

[nimble zodiac]

You can angle against a KV-2 so it can't easily delete 90% from the front ._.

[fallow raptor]

Hi everyone, I wanted to know if you think the amx 30b would need a buff on the reload time, I am very happy with my amx, but many times I have realized that the dpm is really very low, in your opinion would a half-second reload buff make it too op?

[last shadow]

It's basically a slightly worse stb1
That has better mobility
So mmh

[deft zinc]

You know, the t62 hasnt been buffed by wg in a while. I reckon they give it 940 alpha
It really needs it

[thick rover]

..

[candid steeple]

I am a bit annoyed by this since lvl V and VI are disaster to play right now. Good update 5.5 WG.

[last shadow]

Same here
One reason why I won't grind the new line rn
Can't be bothered to unlock the t5/6

[full token]

nice bug

[uneven narwhal]

It already has a good DPM, near T57 with the 105mm
With the 120mm you are supposed to be a burst damage beast, not a DPM one

[dusky anchor]

They need to make Yohs intraclip reload longer, 1.71 sec is too good

[last shadow]

Are you saying that weegee screwed up the balance here?!
Unheard of!

[slow comet]

Thats the only thing those tanks have , meh armor -garbage mobility-garbage dpm - shit weak spots all over the tank - top speed 34 km - 20sec + reload ). The type of people who keeps saying a tank is OP is the same people who yolo rush or jump infront of them sideways etc

[dusky anchor]

its annoying when a guy yolos you and does 900+ damage within 3.5 sec and then retreats

[last shadow]

Dunno seems good
Worse armor than E5 but way more annoying hit box
Burst gun does her job
Dpm Gun does her job
Mobility (wo boost) slightly worse

Ah yes
Don't let the t10 heavy with destroyed track reverse system
Retreat
Great advise

[slow comet]

Every other autoloader can yolo yo and do even higher damage , even tvp can do 1200 dmg to u in 6 secs . Is it OP ? No ! Plus. If a yoh yolos you Dont let him retreat lol. He has over 20sec reload. U can do same amount of damage to him or even higher

[dusky anchor]

I understand, but when the Yoh peaks he has less exposure and is less prone to damage from your team mates compared with for eg amx 50 b where it takes 9 seconds for it to empty its mag so hes more prone to being shot

[full token]

The tvp exposes 4 times over 6 seconds. You get time to react and turn around. The Yoh exposes twice and you only get less than 2 seconds to do anything about that. Usually anyone that makes the mistake of letting the Yoh get a shot on them will also take a second hit for their mistake
You may yolo a Yoh but if both you and the yoh playerhave the same skill, that yoh is going to know to not push too hard if you have the brains to know to rush that yoh on a reload. And all that on better armor, even if there’s weakspots people have to take the effort to aim at. Mobility isn’t bad either, for the rest of the tank. You also cannot be permatracked. And there’s the advantage of the standard pen, heat pen, and the decent accuracy to add on, and heavy tank hp

[midnight fable]

Technically 6 seconds for the 50 B.

@full token let's not jump to conclusions. But maybe the Yohs are slightly good tanks. ;)

[unique scaffold]

Give t8 progetto 46 a longer reload between the shoots.every time the enemies team has a porgetto 46 platton my team is just dying

[slow comet]

Lol

[unique scaffold]

@unique scaffold are broken (780) dmg of burst and relaod fast as other tanks ( are 9 tier tanks)

[quasi axle]

*720

[winged barn]

Premium tanks are apparently immune to actual balance

[unique scaffold]

And? It would be better to balance all tanks,and not only the collector and tech tree tanks

[full token]

it would, but wg doesnt think its important enough

[unique scaffold]

I think that i am not the only 1 who thinks that balancing premiums is important

[real bison]

then should that mean every autoloader/autoreloader should get a longer intraclip?

Just simple maths really...

1 Progetto 46 can deal 720 dmg in one clip

Times that by 2, and you get 1440, enough to kill a tier 8 light tanks (assuming no bounces and average roles)

Now the AMX 50b has 1200 clip potential. 2400 in a platoon.

If you can’t beat em, join em

[winged barn]

That's great, except if they are both unloaded the already eliminated on of your allies

[uneven narwhal]

Ight fair enough

[drowsy plaza]

Most good toons either won’t unload all at once - or will have used it to wipe someone out - so that advantage is gone.

[lofty mist]

? the t1 heavy and m6 are both extremely strong tanks. not to mention tier 5 and 6 are both very well balanced tiers so idk what ur complaining about

[candid steeple]

If you think that tier V is fair after all those unneeded buffs then you are living under a rock. And reason why tier VI is trash is really simple. Smasher and Annihilator each game telling you why you have to keep distance from that tier. WG destroyed everything from tier I to VII and no one can deny that.

[lofty mist]

just get good ffs. if u figure out how to deal with tanks like the annihilator and smasher and stop complaining about things that u can’t control. not to mention the t1 heavy is one of the best tier 5 tanks in the game, i have no clue how u can say that these tiers are bad. come back and talk when u figure out how to play

[full token]

It’s like if he complained about having to grind the Annihilator to get a tier 8. The T1 heavy and M6 are both strong, and cause pain to other tanks rather than the other way around

[leaden flare]

Im on EU aswell and i grinded M6 and tbh didnt have too much of an issue with both Anni and Smasher
Sure they are pretty OP but yeah can be dealt with espacially when having armor urself
T5 is balance free Heavys are just OP there
T6 isnt my fav not because of T7s but because of the heavy OPness

[candid steeple]

Tier VI used to be my one of fav tiers but WG used it too much as punching bag so I just left it.

Also those 2 up there are ignorant to what I am typing so I will no longer replay to them. It's good that we still got people saying that Ani and Smasher are fine enough that you shouldn't care about them. Yeah sure... (deal with it) mhm

[lofty mist]

yes i am so ignorant 😔

[full token]

Ok dont grind the two tanks that have fewer problems at those tiers than other tanks then

[leaden flare]

Well he should read what I actually said and understand it properly

• I said Anni and smasher are OP
• yet you can kill them ... It's not like they are invincible sure it's one hell of a job outplaying one of them but it's possible, coming to discord crying OP won't make them less OP and I doubt WG is going to nerf either of them any time soon so your only option is training to be as good as possible against them
• and guess what Heavys are your best bet against Anni since they usually have some kind of Armor and Anni has sub 200 pen on AP and rather weak APCR too so they surely are your best bet against them
• T5 and 6 are basically just heavys and Cromwell B

[barren quest]

nerf smasher and annihilator. period

[rustic hemlock]

No. They never will. If you are in a tier 8 heavy you can bully them :)

[flat bane]

@candid steeple the M6 is one of the best T6 heavy tank in game.... you'll manage.

Oh :(

[winged barn]

Other than the existence of everything else except for the churchill 7, sure

[alpine sierra]

exactly. lol

[nimble zodiac]

Mate you gotta shorten that name 😂

[alpine sierra]

wow

[bronze osprey]

bro his name is short what do you mean?

[nimble zodiac]

Master of unicode, conqueror of text walls

[mental pasture]

That's not an actual bug, any veteran (or at least anyone that played since 5.5) knows this.
The only mistake about 5.5 was "deleting" the tier 6 and the KV-13. Otherwise, I see no real prpblem on this.

[foggy aurora]

Well I played since 5.5 and imo thought that the entire update was a mistake

[mental pasture]

Wow, they "deleted" some very low tiers, took a few tier 6 with KV-13 too and changed the tier 1. What a big deal.

The players obviously will struggle to play tier 10 because they didn't play AT-1 (tier 2), Marder (Tier 3) or T82 (tier 3).
It's not because noobs are a chronic problem in all games, neither the fact that you aren't supposed tk fight more than 50 battles in tier 2 or 3.

Ah yeah, now you also can't use much different consumables in tier 3, oh no, such a horrible problem.

[nimble zodiac]

Besides you can buy them back for gold ._.

[twin egret]

M6 Yoh could use a mobility nerf I guess? For the armour and flexibility to being able to reverse while the tracks are broken, it should act more sluggish

[foggy aurora]

Ever since 5.5 noobs were able to rush through lines as there was no diversity throughout tiers 1-5 which essentially gave no point to try out other lines until they were finished with the other which is good for the noob but bad for older players and quit jumping to conclusions that I didn’t even mention with the very unneeded sarcasm

[nimble zodiac]

Yes, it ruined diversity, taking away the chance of them going up a different line, but the speed up isn't changed unless it's from the removal of unnecessary modules for dedicated players in a line.

There's still multiple lines to go through through to tier 5

[full token]

They could nerf the intraclip for the 120mm on the Yoh, and buff the clip reload a bit to keep the dpm similar. Rn it’s low enough that if someone lets you hit one shot, you’ll have the time to hit the other shot before they can get back into cover. One mistake punished twice. Other autoloaders are incapable of doing it. Maybe the Fv4005 but that needs a consumable. The JagE100 and 183 can do something similar too, but those have other drawbacks, unlike the Yoh. I hope WG, after seeing the tank possibly overperform to the point it needs a nerf, doesn’t just give it horrible stats on everything else just so they can keep the 1.7 second reload

[alpine sierra]

Ooh. Imagine if this could be my ign

[bronze osprey]

Yooooo

[unique scaffold]

Annihilator is not that op i think.i killed realy much of them

[unique scaffold]

I agree, You can always HE anni turret back with 90+ MM pen...

[twin egret]

the alpha dmg it has for a 120mm is absurd, it should be nerfed, instead of nerfing the inter-clip

[full token]

That can work too. It’s closer to 128mm alpha rn

[unique scaffold]

Why if you look at the 3 shell autoloader it has only 300 dmg per shoot.the 2 shell does 450.so it is balanced enought ,then other clip heavys do 400 with 3 shells

[twin egret]

the time expose yourself is a thing btw, those tanks take 5-6 seconds to dump their shells

[pseudo hedge]

I don't see the problem here. there are other heavies with Autoloaders and the YOH just gets a different gun that punishes mistakes. it can't even Hulldown God like the Kranvagn. We have to wait 2 or 3 months to see the stats Roll.in bc right now only Unicums are playing it so.you guys maybe get the wrong impression.

[nimble zodiac]

There's also the fact people have to get used to the profile and get comfortable with weaknesses

Like Gravedigger being "OP" cuz people didn't know it has a multitude of weakspots

[rustic hemlock]

I really hate people who whine a bunch about annihilator and smasher. At least the blitz devs didn't add the tank: King Tiger(Captured). It would be more op than Annie and smasher because its a tier 7 tiger 2 that is Captured by Americans

[thick rover]

what are you on about

[scarlet fjord]

honestly as 57 heavy is the best performing tank in my garrage and one of my favourites i gotta be honest the yoh is superior in terms of consistency 450 alpha with 1.7 seconds is too strong specially when you consider the armor profile difference and similar mobility
all the 57 heavy has over it is DPM and slightly more overall burst but having less burst and needing 1.7 seconds instead of 5 is way more important

[weak haven]

Its not stronger than the t57.
It has a higher reload than the t57, way worse accuracy, worse pen, and u have that problem when u are sitting there in the yoh with 1 shell and have no idea if u should reload the whole clip or just stay with the one shell
Also in my opinion, i find it easiert to pen the t57 than the yoh

[full token]

It’s easier to end up with an unspent shell in other autoreloaders. It’s easier to get two shots out in 1.7s than for other tanks to get 2 shots out in 2.5-3s

[scarlet fjord]

accuracy is similar it has slingly worse aim time and dispersion but its accuracy on the move is better so i would call that similar
its average dpm emphasis on average is way less important than its ability to expose for less than 2 seconds instead of 5 plus way more turret and even hull armor frontally
its 320 pen with calibrated is still more than enough if you just aim ita not a problem in pubs
and yog will fire off all of its magazine more often than the others as its less than half their bursting time
unfortunately its just better by quite a noticeable amount

[weak haven]

Its not similar dpm. The t57 has over 600 dpm more

[unique scaffold]

when i play with my E75 TS vs platoon annihilator ! i almost sell this tank because was usless / was for free but anger me how 8 tier is usless again 7 tier tank (annihilator) --- and i stop play 6,7,8 tier and leave game ! i no solve WG big problems because are lazy and is no good strategy vs them If play 60/70% players !

[winged barn]

That is what we call a skill issue. The e75ts is a tank perfect for stomping on tier 7s. The only way to mess it up is to present your lower plate to the enemy.

[scarlet fjord]

@weak haven i never said the dpm was similar i said it more than makes up for that dpm with the interclip
i said the mobility and gun handling are similar

[rustic hemlock]

Git gud nub. Your the reason why you died not the tank

[nimble zodiac]

I like how all complaints are just things he encounters and not anything apart from experience, generalizing and often incorrectly giving values of damage

[hearty steeple]

Atleast we can understand some of his messages now. I believe the translator got an upgrade

[uneven narwhal]

Sad, no daily riddles for me to solve

[scarlet fjord]

you guys too much 😂

[full token]

RiddleStripe

[twin egret]

I don't know sounds like you bad with tank honestly

[dense walrus]

Have at it:
https://blitzhangar.com/en/update/8-0

[full token]

TS-5 looking like the usual premium that is a better version of the T28
I hope they arent planning on releasing it this update, because it already has a legendary camo

[scarlet fjord]

T28 was pretty useless anyways

[full token]

This tank still looks strong even if you don’t compare it with the T28. The armor is 250mm around the gun, and it’s curved. There is no flat lower plate. The ‘lower plate’ is 120mm at a very good angle. The cupola is 100mm iirc and it’s not that big. The gun is the E5 gun with the same AP and heat pen, and 3k dpm. Mobility isn’t too bad. It doesn’t have consumables but it’s 26kph and overall just better than the T28’s mobility, while also fixing the flat areas on the T28 armor

[light linden]

how did you git that whole thing in your name?

[thick rover]

Thoughts on the yoh's armour? Any nerfs warranted or players don't know how to aim yet?

[nimble zodiac]

They'll have to carve out their aim a bit, I need to

[fallow eagle]

The little things connecting the hull and the tracks are very annoying

[analog shard]

yeah i have a suggestion when its damaged; when the thing connected to the tracks are damaged it should make the yoh tank's hull turn rate slower

[mental pasture]

There was never true diversity in tier 1-4.

The low tiers never teached someone something.

Took me more than thousands of battles to learn the minimal to don't be an idiot, having 50 battles in T82 wouldn't teach me anything.
Low tier playstyle is nothing compared to higher tier games.
What we learned today?

• you can't learn with low tier because It's too little number of battles
• no playstyle variation

[leaden flare]

Kinda liked the pre 5.5 tech tree more

• looked better
• was harder to get through
• was balanced better imo then the low tiers rn

[scarlet fjord]

armor seems balanced i do think that the gun (120mm) needs nerfing

[mental pasture]

Low tiers still balanced.

[thick rover]

I see

[pseudo hedge]

The E75 TS and Tiger 2 are probably the best tankes against Annihilator. That's a pure skill issue no other factors.

[mental pasture]

@pseudo hedge @winged barn @rustic hemlock @twin egret
Can you guys explain me why do you give actual answers for the man called as milanmrlian? He's clearly a wallet warrior and probably under 40%. Someone that can't use tier 8 against a tier 7 clearly couldn't do the E75TS challange.

Also, explain me how you manage to understand his english.

Good answer, demigod.

[uneven narwhal]

He is someone who posts riddles in here everyday that we try and crack
Others type it out, I just try and understand what he is tryna say

[twin egret]

the Rosetta Stone idk, translator tablet

[boreal grove]

g

[winged barn]

You may have missed it, but that's anni calibrated prammo against an e75ts that's not even bothering to use gun depression or or angling

[leaden flare]

Nah best tank against Anni is WZ 112-2

[unique scaffold]

Why is the gun depression limit on tier 10 -10 degree? Would be nice to see some tank with 12-15 instead of new clippers only. Either new one or buff the old ones that aren't too great like fv4202 or m48 or even stb1 to make it useful in cw.

[frail silo]

Why would you give stb 15 or even 12 degrees of gd?!

[distant river]

Imagine coming up against a platoon of superunis in 4202s with 15° of gd 😂

[quasi axle]

meds aren't used in comp that much anyway because heavy hp buff

[leaden flare]

give T-22 15° gd xD

[unique scaffold]

Sheridan was super fun and different from other vehicles with the infinite gd it had, so why not make it a bit balanced this time, but still interesting to play with 15 gd
@quasi axleimagine all the new positions you could use with -15gd med. It would be a good change imo

[twin egret]

how about 120mm or 130mm guns on an FV4202 👀

[mental pasture]

Wow, a tank that can effectively have 90° of gun depression, so balanced.

[quasi axle]

more like make tanks broken

[unique scaffold]

Or competitive against braindead heavies

[alpine sierra]

Copy and paste from a friend

[leaden flare]

^ this should count as spam and should be punished

[alpine sierra]

K.

[mental pasture]

I kinda agree.

[unique scaffold]

Why dont give it the same gun that the fv 183 has 😂

[twin egret]

no, never, it wouldn't even fit lol, but the 120mm and the 130mm can

[unique scaffold]

I know.it was just a joke xD

[oak jetty]

Do you guys think tog need buff i rlly cant ricochet using him

[unique scaffold]

It has been buffed in 7.8 or 7.9 if i remember right.

[candid steeple]

Actually FV was supposed to have 183 gun but WG saw it as too much and gave the tank this crappy auto cannon that doesn't suit tank which can't be in open for not even a second. So thus no one plays the tank. It's a really crappy tank at the moment. Obviously you can make it work but it's honestly the worst tier X td. Big as a barn and can't reverse back or it will lose in dpm. WU HU terrible design choice. Spee is the only thing keeping it from being completely useless junk.

[full token]

They’re talking about a 120/130mm on the 4202 not the 4005.

[fallow raptor]

Well, if you donated a 120mm gun to 4202 it would be very interesting and it would be a rival of the wz121, in my opinion it would be very very interesting :D

[twin egret]

what are you going on about xd

[candid steeple]

Oh well I saw 183 so presumed wrongly. Sry.

[crystal halo]

Turtle Mk 1 is complete trash

[rustic hemlock]

Ahem. We call it the turdle Mk 1

[nimble zodiac]

That's cringe because that's Droodles'

Thief

[nimble zodiac]

FV4005 is a good tank =(

[thick rover]

:((

[tepid latch]

H

[scarlet fjord]

i dont have the tank but looking at it from my perspective since i have 57 and 50B it having a 130 mm and the special consumable for interclip i think played right it will be a hard core playstyle but massive damage output kinda like 183 but better stats
im basing this purely on how much of a difference i feel using a 130 mm vs a 120 in general
obv 57 heavy and 50B are better cuz they can troll bounce and have insanely more hp's and practically TD pen

[rare sleet]

I prefer 183 over 4005 though no matter all the benefits 4005 may have especially cuz i like to be aggressive and a 120mm on Fv4202 would be interesting 🤔

[slow comet]

Fv needs a little more armor on its roof. So when u actually use 10degrees of gun depression. It can bounce. Just like how it is with the cent7/1. They shouldn’t touch the gun tho , it doesn’t need alpha dmg as it has hesh + leo 1 could use higher alpha dmg. Like it should do 390 but reduce the reload. From like current 5.7sec (rammer) to 6.2

[thick rover]

@slow comet FV has hesh?
Oops I thought you were talking about 4005 for some reason HAHA

[slow comet]

Yes 4202 has two guns. One with heat and other with hesh as pramo , always use the hesh one. U gonna rekt other meds

[glad brook]

Yes and no. Rammed then facehugged a hesh gun FV into a wall once in the 50M, poor guy couldn’t do anything except sit there and watch his hp drop to 0.

[rare sleet]

he couldve atleast tried to Splash Hesh. Anyways Fv4202 is not a very good frontline medium

[full token]

Woa woa changes to tier 7

Hahaha ‘most changes are buffs’. Yes buff the tanks don’t nerf the ones that really need it

[rugged osprey]

I feel like tier 7 needs more nerfs than buffs

[sudden path]

No
The only way you solve the anni problem is by buffing all the tanks around it

[rugged osprey]

yes, than for balance also rework every other tier since if one tier is gonna get completely buffed you need to buff the tiers around it as well.

Anni and smasher... just a curse in tier 7s tbh.

[unique scaffold]

t7 mm is balanced

[mental pasture]

And my name is New Zealand.

[inland oracle]

Maybe a little buff for VK 30.01 P
I dont use it but i have used it for a while
Its really not a good tank even if its fully equipped
Every tank has something that makes it good
It speed or Peneration / Damage / Reload Time and Armor
but Vk 30.01 P has a really bad armor + normal peneration + bad damage + normal speed

[last shadow]

Hello new Zealand
How is life going?

[upper compass]

Same

[rose belfry]

Same

[unique scaffold]

EU-server?

[mental pasture]

No

[last shadow]

:(

[high tulip]

Just nerf Annihilator and Smasher

[real shadow]

True

[tidal palm]

Buff kv-2

[slow comet]

Yes. Give it 300 hesh pen please

[nimble zodiac]

This implies that the pAP will be replaced with HESH

[twin egret]

FV4202 doesn't need more armour, giving it more gun opions would make it way more interesting though instead of it being a stereotypical hulldown tank, when it's using all -10, the forehead of the tank becomes really strong already.

hmm, I'm not sure, does anyone think that Premium HEAT & APCR need a rework or something?
HEAT seems way more favorable in the meta nowadays

[nimble zodiac]

I mean, the roof is extremely effective when it uses gun depression...

APCR is better in general but HEAT works better with CS, and that's what is often used because WG likes to give raw penetration for HEAT, and enhancing it further with CS

@slow comet the roof.

[slow comet]

Becomes really strong. Are u sure about that. 243 max effective armor around the mantlet. Under the gun its 195mm. Left and right parts of turret = 180-190. Extremely strong to me. Right

[twin egret]

auto bounce, lol, also I'm not sure why you hovered your cursor over the flattest part of that forhead but it's over 490~ — 500~mm thick on the angled part, rarely will anyone hit that flat 200mm thick part. the side forhead cheeks at the weakest are around 165mm, but the further out they get to 245mm at most

[dense walrus]

You’re 0 for 5 there bucko

[rare sleet]

why the hatch on fv4202 so TALL

[twin egret]

because dev team said: lol, cake-pola (cake +cupola)
In real life, the cupola is much much shorter, like the size of the FV201's cupola on the turret, but add one more inch in height

[rare sleet]

when the fv4202 hatch is as strong as the turret bruh the turret weak. They should relocate the armor on the hatch to the front of the turret and make the hatch obviously shorter

[sudden path]

No with heat it does much better with extreme angles
It doesn't autobounce til 85 degrees

[wicked quest]

APCR is the worst round type it’s only better that it doesn’t immediately fail on hit with tracks or absorbed into sides (or that it’s slow)

[nimble zodiac]

I mean it beats HE as a round type :p

Eh, perhaps I need to play my mle 54 more

[graceful dune]

Look at where is the 183.......

[slow comet]

Ofc I showed u the weakest part. As anyone who got normal IQ wont shoot the auto ricochet roof.

[twin egret]

but who can realistically hit that part consistantly to begin with lol? plus no one really notices it when aiming at a FV4202 in sniper

[leaden flare]

Fv4202 just doesn't have any turret Armor it always has been grey to me and even if it's autobounce you can just snap it with heat

I literally can't remember a single red FV 4202 turret they always have been mostly grey

[slow comet]

Thats what i am saying. Turret is garbage. Yet somehow he think its good turret. Lol even cent 7/1 got better turret when u use the tun depression

[full token]

It’s not red but still gets a few troll bounces. I’d rather not just get a hulldown medium again, but instead buff it elsewhere if it really needs a buff

[slow comet]

Leo 1 and vickers get troll bounces lol. Its just luck. Not consistent. But the whole line had the idea of being bad turrets in general but when u use ur gun depression turret becomes stronger. Thats not the case with the 4202. Matter of fact. Wargaming realized this on pc that the tank was meh. They changed it to centurion AX. Which can bounce shells with the turret. And made 4202 a tier 8 tank. They wont do this here however as they probably would sell the centurion as a premium tank in crates. Etc

[inland oracle]

Explain me why i am wrong then

[thick rover]

I hope they give cent ax as an alternative although there's no incentive on their part, making it a collector would generate greater revenue :(( sad

[plucky charm]

Pls buff KV-2 back to its state before 5.5update and put back T-150 in tech tree or give it a legendary camo and slap it into a battlepass and name it T-150 Fortress with sovite stars on the sides of the tank and flags

[quasi axle]

pls nerf kv2

[sharp saddle]

KV-2 does not need any buffs

[dense vine]

Do i sell my 30b?

[thick rover]

yes

[unique scaffold]

I think m41-90 should get buffed in terms of acceleration or either 3-5 degrees of traverse more. yes I get that it's gotten idk, Gun, penetration and HE but, hear me out.

• From all bulldogs, It's the most sluggish one.
• It doesn't have that good viewrange, 286 isn't spectacular for a light tank at tier 8.
• It's acceleration isn't the best
• It's traverse isn't that good either. If a tank can go up to 70+ km/h it should have at least, imo, 74 / 76 degrees.

So in tl;dr, I believe: 80 - 110 engine HP more and perhaps 3/5 degrees of traverse more and it becomes a quite pleasurable tank to play : )

Why I even talk about it? Imagine the scenario where you're the only light tank and you gotta spot. Let's see, You're not the quickiest and your view range in addition to some other lights is quite poor soooo, You gotta get closer. If you're closer ( which is a must ) some lights can outspot u and in that moment, you really have to run yet as the acceleration isn't the best yep. Usually it ends up with getting hit, 1 or 2 shots. + 1 / 2 repair kits used as damaging it's modules. Be it driver or ammo is very easy. from my experience.
Using protective kit makes the tank even slower and exchanging it for standard fuel doesn't affect the mobility as much.

[uneven narwhal]

I play the Black Dog often and I can say that it does not need a buff, it's already very good
Not OP, just very good

[fallow raptor]

The m41 is an amazing tank, doesn't need buffs, but the amx 13-90 needs some love

[unique scaffold]

Didn't say it needs a buff to get op just, that acceleration isn't quite there as I mentioned, from all the bulldogs, it's the most sluggish. even 80 horse power buff would make a difference and if not that, then at least lower the terrain resistance a bit It should be something between jade bulldog and lttb, speed wise
you know. Since germans are known from good engines, power to weight ratio wise. Leo, e50m.

[uneven narwhal]

Yes, but it makes up for it with that godly gun

[full token]

Apparently its some of the best acceleration for tier 8 unless it’s on soft terrain. And the view range is 3/7 for tier 8 light tanks so it’s better than the majority of lights

[unique scaffold]

That's why I said viewrange isn't the best. Obviously fv301 takes the 1st place.
Imma stand for the buff tho. I believe it should get that engine buff. ( btw, you said unless it's on soft terrain? Lemme say that soft-terrain is in most of maps, it's the main type of terrain tanks encounter.
it'd help, just like it helped for chi-nu kai, really.

[umbral thistle]

I honestly think amx 30b should get a buff the dpm is not very good for a tier 10 medium

[full token]

Then it will become a better leopard 1, which isn’t a good thing. WG already tried out the tank with better dpm and it was too good when they had it that way

[dense walrus]

VK P has above average pen, alpha, and top speed, while the armor is average at worst.

[hearty steeple]

30b is honestly fine imo. If anything, a more accurate gun would be more appreciated. The dpm is trash yes, but it is something that can be worked by not getting into brawls meaning fighting over distance.

[drowsy plaza]

30B is a tough tank to balance. It went through 3 versions in testing and we got a 4th on release. If you shave the cupola it becomes a better Patton - and STB, if you make the gun better it becomes a better Leo. Right now it sits in a decent spot for a med - as it’s got mobility and a decent turret of you jockey around. But against a heavy it suffers with its absolutely terrible DPM and gun combo.

[unique scaffold]

then give it just a slight minor buff. Make the dpm 3.12k or either dispersion a 0.29 ( as a base ish, so if you wouldn't use refined gun ) also buffing base gold pen to 300 would be nice too, as I believe it's a very minimum in meds. Excluding 121 for obvious reasons ofc.

[distant river]

30b is fine how it is. Actually it's a brilliant tank how it is, but like the Leo it needs skill to play right. It's got a hugely high skill ceiling.

[unique scaffold]

Why on hell does the isu need 286 mm pen? Would 250 mm be enought -_-. And yes i played the isu

[prisma jetty]

Don’t question the Soviet point and click adventure gun

[twin egret]

I never said it was good, I was merely correcting you

[sudden path]

Exactly
It's a fast tank
With a turret
If it had a good gun and a less big hatch it would be the best med in tier x

[unique scaffold]

Never seen t22 medium?

[sudden path]

Um t22 is not light tank fast
And it doesnt have 10 degrees of gun depression

[unique scaffold]

T22 medium is still stronger i think.

[still jolt]

Tier 10 Progetto needs small nerf to it's armor... It's a bit too OP tank. Fast autoloader bouncing alot...

[quasi axle]

it's fine as is it doesn't need a nerf

[dark glen]

Start with nerfing heavies

[sudden path]

A 30b with stb gun stats and a smaller hatch
Is worse than the tank that anyone with a brain can pen, a tank that is slower than the other russian meds, and aims like a dead 62a gunner is better than a 30b that zooms like a light tank but has more armor than most meds
No that's definetly correct I rest my case

[lean gate]

For heavies just nerff speed and view range
For TDS buff camo rate and alpha damge
For meds buff a little bit pen and gun
For lights buff mobility and view range
That's it and thanks me later

[slow comet]

+++ heavies didnt need any HP buff

[leaden flare]

TDs dont need buffs they murder enough games already by beeing the reason nobody can move or anything
113 g ft might be an exception because its trash
-remove consumables but buff the tank overall

[karmic dock]

They did at the time cus of missiles, but now that those are gond, the hps should go down a bit again, maybe no to original state tho

[autumn zodiac]

It doesn't have anything else

It's entirely based around the gun

[real bison]

The T-22 has a higher top speed than the 62a, but worse acceleration. It also has sides that can, when angled correctly, bounce all shells in the game, also, has a great turret, the mediocre gun can be dealt with easily, just run CS and vstabs, any T-22 player with a brain is also hard to play against

[sudden path]

Yeah you still get penned through the pikenose
Reverse sidescraping is hard to set up
Forward sidescraping is not reliable as you get penned and outraded
It aims really bad for as low as the alpha is
140 is better at brawling, and 62a is better for hulldown
In pubs, your extra survivability is not better than a heavy, and you have one of the worst med guns in its class. All you really have is dpm and turret armor, but the 62a has that. It can brawl sure, but the 140 is better at that. The t22 is actually the worst russian med for pubs. Top speed doesnt matter really acceleration matters more.

[jagged crescent]

Reverse sidescraping is honestly pretty easy to do. Even if you don’t necessarily have a wall to work off, I’m pretty sure the rear itself is lowkey harder to hit than the front just because of the “grey” area size

[frail silo]

I think people have already shown that that bad gun handling is not bad in actuality.
Just in comparison to laser russian meds.
Also how is obj 140 better at brawling?
And the t22 has a better turret than the t62a one.

[sudden path]

Its alpha is so low that you have to take shot after shot after shot
You have to make quick pokes or you get outraded
And 140 and 62a are much better st that
140 has much better speed and will pick up those troll bounces that win an engagement bc step ufp and turret that are troll
The t22 only works because people dont understand the sides and how the front works with all the angles. It relies on small brains to make its armor work, good players understand how the t22s armor is going to work and can pen it quite easily with standard rounds while at least the 140 has to be pramoed to pen consistently
Plus ap is just a better armor penetrator
Ofc the t22 turret is better. That's its main strength, buts gun depression really limits the usefulness of this single strength other than the turret it's a gimmicky tank with the sides. That's all it is. 140 makes the rotations that gain an edge in a brawl and the 62a is better at farming hulldown due to it's much better gun and that extra degree of gun depression.

[frail silo]

I dunno
I think wiggling in t22 makes it pick up more troll bounces.
Sure the gun handling is not laser but no where near bad.
And it has nice dpm and armor to carry out a brawl.
It surely is easy to pen once you learn the profile but obj140 is even easier.

[quasi axle]

140 isn't even easier the only places to reliably pen are lfp and the cupolas and aiming at those in a brawl is not very easy

[sudden path]

Its only the worst aim time out of the tier x meds
And its dispersion isnt even that good
For something with such low alpha you have to make each shot count when you poke out and with such bad aim time your going to miss shots

[nimble zodiac]

Dang, I was planning to use Lowe as a standard but T-22 has the same aim time as well as 0.009 more dispersion

[scarlet fjord]

M VI Yoh platoon is BaLaNcEd
1800 damage in 1.7 seconds

[oak yew]

so i think the next CW setup looks like: 6x M VI Yoh + Kranvagn/Vickers L. ect. --- 2 shots by Yoh, finished by non-Yoh, next 2 Yohs shot...finished by non-Yoh....next 2 Yohs,finished by non-Yoh.... and then repeat, bc reload is done xD

[latent snow]

How is the 59 patton in the same tier as the chimera

[teal palm]

Better
M-VII-Yoh is in the same tier as Anni and Smasher

[last shadow]

Balans comrade

[hasty mulch]

nerf the yoh

[pure raven]

For the love of God. Please buff the prammo pen on the IS-7. 318 is nothing! Recently I was in battle face hugging a VK 90. (German premium tier 10) and I couldn’t pen it at all. Like literally, it was all red. Not even the capoula could be penned. I don’t understand why the pen is so low. Even the pen of medium tanks is higher. I constantly struggle to pen anything in every battle. I can’t pen an E-100’s turret when angled, can’t pen a Jageroo’s cheeks when angled too. The APCR on this tank is horrendous. Even 10 more mm of pen would do the job. Please buff the penetration on the tank. It would be perfectly balanced then. Not to also mention the long reload. 11 seconds with calibrated shells or not. You should buff the prammo pen on the is7 please. Buff it to Atleast 330. Not less

[bitter fjord]

You can pen cheeks and use calibrated

[sudden path]

Look run cs if you cant deal with low pen, otherwise dont take engagements where lack of pramo hurts you. I would have side hugged the vk90 instead of facehugging him
Also when you have 460 alpha 11 seconds is an acceptable reload.

[leaden flare]

easy solution dont facehug vk 90s

[stuck haven]

What's with the emergency track mechanic that the high tier yoh's have?
Its not like their tracks break that easily.

[autumn zodiac]

Gotta agree, the tracks are rather hard to break for having a mechanic that allows them to retreat. Not only that but the reverse speed isn't capped so seeing hulldown tanks they generally end up going much faster than 4kph on any hull they are on

[unique scaffold]

What about giving AT 15 longer reload?

[sudden path]

No
Not without an armor buff

[unique scaffold]

Or : same armor ,top speed 30 xD and 5sec reload

[sudden path]

No
It's a slow rolling bunker with an amazing gun it's fine how it is

[hollow elm]

German bulldog gets easy module damage its a fact but i think it needs only a camo buff. Atm it's just a lightly armored medium tank, out-spotted by pretty much any light tank.

[unique scaffold]

quite slow, only 8 degrees and yeah, easily outspotted.. So either camo or mobility, gonna work both ways

[umbral thistle]

nerf annihilator and smasher pls

[full token]

theyre buffing other tanks to fix the issue

[hollow elm]

In real life design they have small inner tracks pretty much like ae phase 1 has. When outter track gone inner track still functional, they able to move not fast but move.

[scarlet fjord]

i recently swtiched IS-7 playstyle from cs to gun rammer and been enjoying it and place myself in positions wheere i only fire AP and basically use it like a med with insane armor and alpha i would not mind it getting 320 apcr or leave it to 303 but give it 2600-2700 dpm

[dense walrus]

Read pinned

[dense walrus]

Seems like a few of you have already mutated into ungodly beings who complain about MM and can’t read pinned. By a few I mean several thousand.

[scarlet fjord]

at least you made me laugh by reading ribble's message lol

[gray cosmos]

T1 heavy and M6 and magnus frontal armor must be nerfed! It's impossible to scratch them with a tier 5 heavies, even with a kv 220T nothing works with them, either they buff the lower tires or nerf the tier 6 ! The difference between the 2 tiers is huge

[sudden path]

Apcr

[gleaming apex]

_Venu#4569 was muted

TheDancingDevil#8228 was muted

[unique scaffold]

You joke? If you dont hit them then there are two ways:
1.=you have a bad aim
2.=your t5 is stock

Becaus i did not have any problems to pen them

KV 220 T has a really bad gun because it's armour is the best at tier 5 iirc

[distant river]

@tawdry condor If every heavy had the speed booster than maybe I might agree with you, but that is limited to just three tanks and one is awfully slow to begin with. Even using a speed booster on an E5 you still arrive a few seconds later than slow meds. You also sacrifice any hope of rotating or moving for more than 20 seconds for the next minute and a half whereas a med has total freedom. If two (I think it was just two people?) is enough of a majority to convince you that you are right despite not playing meds at all recently then maybe you are a liiitttllleee too egoistic and confident in yourself.

Your "one position to win a game" idea relies on:

1. you finding a position like that (much more likely for a superuni to do but not guaranteed)
2. the reds actually being in front of you
3. the reds not having any counter to the position
4. the reds sitting out in front of you and letting you farm them
5. you farming fast enough before the rest of your team gets farmed (again much more likely for a superuni but sure as hell not guaranteed)

[tawdry condor]

why would i take a med if i can take a heavy to the same med spots, outheavy and counter their meds, and still retain heavy tank advantages in hp and armor?

1. it's not rocket science, there are advantageous positions to take on every single map
2. why would you go there if they aren't?
3. if you can get countered for free, it's not a good position. what are you doing there. if it started off good and became bad, you've either overextended or something disastrous has already happened to your team
4. if it's a good position, they won't have a choice in the matter
5. your pubs are worse than their pubs then, it's going to be an uphill game. the fact that you've been farming them this whole time, and not getting focused or taking hits (as is the case if your team is getting farmed) would mean you'll be healthy and able to carry the end game

[frail silo]

maybe elaborating with examples would do a better job getting the point across.

[rustic hemlock]

They never will. You must learn to Git Gud

[umbral thistle]

well im not gud so

[flat bane]

Please give the stock/first non-autoloading cannon of the Foch 155 it's original 640 alpha gun stats.

[mental pasture]

The gun isn't that bad, it manages to reload faster than some meds and do the same damage.

The penetration is rather low, but I think it's worth because of the DPM + armor. It's a bad gun, but not that bad.

[unique scaffold]

Penetration though

[nimble zodiac]

The armor is most definitely not the best, T1 Heavy and BDR compete

Especially on the turrets, though KV-220's is very usable on the hull

[mental pasture]

Well, I can assure that the hull can compete with T1 heavy and BDR (I dare to say that it's even better than those i therms of hull), but if we consider the turret then the 220' receive a big backlash

[tawdry glen]

Yoh is balanced Change my mind

[bronze osprey]

i mean i haven't had an issue with them

[outer glen]

Upgraded spaced armor on conqueror turret when?

[nimble zodiac]

You mean Super Conqueror? Not needed.

[flat bane]

Give 640 alpha gun stats to the regular cannon of the Foch 155

[quasi axle]

I think they had that before

[stuck haven]

Do you think its balanced? not being able to track this thing?

[rustic hemlock]

It only goes 4 kmh backwards. Its not op. Your still slow af

[prisma jetty]

The emergency tracks are strong, but not game breaking

[full token]

4kph more than other tanks, and more than 4 if you’re going down a hill like when you try to go hulldown on a hill and somehow get tracked. All that on a tank that doesn’t lose much to have such a feature

[jagged crescent]

Considering how strong the armor profile is in relation to the 57 and amx, id honestly vouch for a SMALL dpm nerf on the yoh

[nimble zodiac]

But then again it lacks potential per clip

[jagged crescent]

That clip potential imo is compensated by the overal safety in which that clip can be unloaded @nimble zodiac

Like yeah, 900 dmg is pretty vanilla but u're definitely going to be trading better simply because of that lack of exposure time (on the shotgun) and safety granted by the considerably stronger turret armor (which both guns benefit from to an extent)

[nimble zodiac]

At least for the shotgun the DPM is about 400-500 worse, the exposure time for the three clip would be large

[stuck haven]

Compare this to the swedish td's the siege mode serves a purpose. Without it the td's can't do anything. These mechanics should be added to tanks that sacrificed some of its stats in exchange for the mechanic.

[nimble zodiac]

Orchestrate a push when they take their 20 seconds off, or don't engage them hulldown

Surely Kranvagn is OP under your argument, able to dump 1200 damage like the other two, being able to continue that damage before the other two can reload, while having a stronger turret than MVIY, let alone T57 and 50B

[jagged crescent]

In comp (if yohs are used), they'll most definitely be either in strong holding spots, ambush spots, or positions that'll be covered by other tanks.
And in pubs, the rushing only works well if that Yoh is somehow isolated from the rest of the team by that's its own niche issue.

The "do not engage" them hulldown isn't always going to work either. You can say "do not engage the annihilator/smasher" but that doesn't take away how broken those tanks are either.

And no I don't find the Kran op. Strong? Yes. But not gamebreaking since the burst potential takes 7 seconds to unload and from there, the tank's easier to fight against considering how atrocious the single shot dpm is.

Plus I'm just arguing for a minor dpm nerf.

[nimble zodiac]

When I said don't engage them hulldown, I meant don't engage them while they're hulldown, so either they have to reposition, or push over to be effective, exposing/nullifying their effectiveness

And a minor DPM nerf won't do much, with vents, the 450x2 has 2544 DPM, and if, say, that's cut to 2350, that changes a 19.5s reload to a 21.2s reload, more time for it to what? Stay behind the hill they ever so cherish? If it's gonna have a good impact, someone would have to either engage it elsewhere, or have it pushed.

[flat bane]

😂

[full token]

Imo it needs a rebalance. Nerf the intraclip so it can’t dump 900 so quick, and buff the clip reload a bit so the dpm stays similar. If that’s still strong, nerf as usual. Rn the gun is broken and the rest of the tank isn’t bad enough to justify it. 2500 dpm isn’t that low either. It’s better than some of the heavies at that tier

[nimble zodiac]

My issue resided in the 1.7s, not the turret armor + autoloader

[twin egret]

he exacly didn't mean it that way

[nimble zodiac]

Gun mantlet of Conqueror?

[remote oriole]

If you don’t engage them your team will

[twin egret]

nothing is changed except for the turret, just that, it keeps the same cupola, the same turret shape etc., just spaced armour plate are added
(Super Conq has a completely different turret shape when you remove the spaced armour, the regular Conqueror won't get the Super Conqueror's turret shape)

[nimble zodiac]

@remote oriole Then may the faultier team lose 🤷‍♂️

@twin egret I really focused on the word "upgraded" like a direct buff to a pre-existing spaced armor plate, oh well

I know the gimmicks and the silly 1.7s reload, but to let a tank play you at its advantage is just... why? That's like sitting at the base of a hill while a WZ-120-1 FT gets to use its depression to milk you while you can only hope HE does enough to where your team finishes them later. The autoloader/turret armor combo isn't the problem, the easy burst that it gets to camp the reload for is. At least for the 105mm it trades potential for a speedy reload.

I'm gonna wait until people get used to the multitudes of weakspots the Yoh has, which, by covering two, exposes another group. It's a finnicky tank, the 183 solved is the issue, the long dump of the clip isn't

[remote oriole]

Nonono, this is not a matter of whose team is faultier but a matter of a tank fitting well into the meta (or parts of the meta) and the average player quality. It makes the tank good and is as such not discountable as ‘easy to counter’, even if it is easy to counter

[twin egret]

tbf I would like to see the Conq get that spaced armor, it could help it out honestly, making it more capable by a bit instead of being the weird underpowered tank

[wise zealot]

tbh when there will be Polish heavy tanks, cause im polish and im waiting like crazy for the type 5 or the 60TP Lewandowskiego

[nimble zodiac]

Type 5 would be too hard to balance 😢

[remote oriole]

You will die one death. If it was that easy to face every enemy tank in preferable situations we would ultimately have a paradox because you and the enemy both have the preferable position over the other. Some tanks perform better in a specific meta because their advantages counter the meta; this is not because people mindlessly let someone use his advantages but because the general situation on the battlefield still makes the disadvantageous play against one tank the preferable play in general.

That’s why individual tanks can be strong despite being technically balanced in another meta

[full token]

armor isnt everything...

[nimble zodiac]

The implication that CMk6 is as effective as a tier 8 is so rash, the tank is a good performer, and requires skill to be made very effective; it has a high skill ceiling. It's not that hard to reach either, if you utilize your DPM and turret, baiting shots with your cupola and your troll armor, it will perform well

I believe CMk6 is more threatening in tier 10 than C/T95 is in tier 8. C/T95 gets a relatively wimpy gun, while CMk6 gets a DPM monster gun, that deals a more tangible amount of damage

[fallow raptor]

I think the chieftain t/95 needs 240 alpha damage and maybe a reload time buff

[full token]

That’s quite a big buff

[nimble zodiac]

They shouldn’t be played the same way because their individual stat spreads are different

Armor profiles don’t, by themselves, determine how a tank is to be played.

Balance doesn’t care if playing the tank correctly is boring

[thick rover]

@west torrent is that link allowed? Kind shady

[full token]

Tag mods someone

[nimble zodiac]

Trust me, it’s a good tank. It's not that slow, and can get to positions to fight medium tanks

Besides, damage isn't the biggest factor in battle, it helps you win, but sacrifices made for damage can actually cause a loss

It literally has 5th highest DPM for heavies, according to BH anyways

[worthy basin]

Gone

Thank you for your clarification, much appreciated =) hopefully no one fell for it

[nimble zodiac]

Personal performance has nothing to do with the balance of a tank. Don't play them the same way, they're not the same tank, that's probably why you've been having a hard time with CMk6

Of course you can do more damage in a light/medium if you play them correctly, they have the DPM to support it, but they sacrifice HP and armor in order to be able to be a quick, accurate, and high DPM tank

I can show you my stats on a few questionable tanks and claim they're overpowered, but no.

[hollow canyon]

Yeah of course, just looking out for the community, sadly some have fell for it, so I added that second part to help those people out.

[pure tiger]

ah yes, obviously mk6 needs a buff, cuz it's not enough powerful now... ||jk||

also @Odelic#2702 as i can see u don't have the best stats, or they are extremely bad i should say, so it doesn't make sense that u judge a tank without knowing how to use it properly

[wicked quest]

No offense I don’t think your playing them correctly either .you only have 30 more battles in the T95 chief and have 1,300 average damage, which for the tank it is ,is very low meanwhile you have 300 more damage 2 tiers higher. the T95 and Mk6 do not play the exact same T95 is kinda meh at what it does and has somewhat decent gun stats, the Mk6 is a really decent support tank as it has high pen HE and can cripple and pen more spots than usual, along with it having really good dpm and good speed as it can fill the role of a heavium when needed

[twin egret]

honestly sounds like a skill problem

[sharp laurel]

Chess tournaments are kinda scary if the guy sitting opposite you is 700 FIDE above you 😖

[twin egret]

How many wins in Chess?
also I wouldn't say the Chieftain Mk. 6 is the worst Tier 10, save that for the Vk 72 lol. The Chieftain has its ups and downs, it has a really good gun.
If you want to see how other players play the Chieftain Mk. 6, just go on Youtube and look for replays on it.
Honestly, from what I'm seeing, I believe you are just playing your vehicle wrongly.

[wicked quest]

Yoh has its problems and when it hullsdown it barely can hit anything with the 120 and will barely do damage with the 105