division-universe

[glad spruce]

Anyone who played Iron Horse and watched the ending cutscene from last season's Manhunt will know what I'm talking about.

[cold bramble]

Oh right

Do we know much about rising echo? Anywhere I can read up on it?

[glad spruce]

Yes. It's an operation the defectors are planning through, where their whole goal is to eliminate Anderson and take leadership of the True Sons.

You can learn more details about it from week 7's comm.

[cold bramble]

Okay thanks

[ember vector]

Were they really innocent civilians though? With the Hunter threat, you never know

[sick lantern]

bait used to be believable

[torn shoal]

cant wait for the "actually manny was a hunter all along" discourse

[obsidian jay]

That'd be so stupid 😭
Cause
We take orders from Manny
Which Manny would take hunter orders
Which Manny allied with the rogues
Which in return we allied with the rogues because Manny allied with the rogues
Which makes us rogue because Manny made us rogue which means he has to hunt us because we did rogue things that he dragged us into and-
Y'know it's a whole thing that really tangles my brain even theoretically

[torn shoal]

it was a joke calm down xD

if that actually happenned i'd litterally flip my desk in anger lol

i mean not litterally but metaphorically by coming in here and saying its bad

[stiff terrace]

I can’t believe mannys wife was sokalova

[proud flax]

Man that was not a good comm

[gritty beacon]

Actually Manny is Nomad in disguise

[wicked gorge]

I can’t believe everyone is saying Keener is a bad guy

[stiff terrace]

I cant believe we stopped keener before he posted his podcast

[wicked gorge]

Nah its coming out

[fiery cave]

Just finished that manhunt today. Wild stuff.

[wicked gorge]

He did nothing wrong

[fiery cave]

How did he not?

[sinful mauve]

He did nothing wrong? Lets see....

• Kill first wave agents those who are not willing to join him
• Convincing a lot of First wave agents to join him
• Convincing the russian doctor Chernenko to make another virus but deadlier

Hey as long he did not kill Civilians in cold blood (except JTF cause they deserve it). Now we'll just see the endgame from Keener himself whatever he will start running away, betray or idk what else the guy is scheming

[glad spruce]

It was simply a setup for why Anderson and his forces are gonna consolidate their power once we're in their HQ.

Is it a spoiler to say where the Climax Mission is gonna take place, even if last season's cutscene hint at it?

[wicked gorge]

I mean i understand his motive and he doesn’t target civis. I would be pretty pissed too if the agency hired me left me and my fellow brothers/sisters in the most dangerous and contaminated area of the city

[ember temple]

It's almost like we're playing two separate games

[wicked gorge]

Well yeah. Im playing one and your playing 2

[torn shoal]

its still the same character

unless he has a secret twin that took his place, which isnt impossible seeing the latests seasons but still

[ember vector]

Don't give ideas!

[glad spruce]

My copium idea is that they bring back Viper 😄

[autumn island]

She still could be alive, we dunno

[ashen jungle]

If Theo's corpse could get up then father a child, I don't see why not.

did not expect a zombie subplot in div2's lore, but I'm open minded.

[crystal needle]

When u get to hell tell viper sent you

[ashen jungle]

So in this scenario, Viper killed Hawkster?

[glad spruce]

That's one way of putting it 😛

[sick lantern]

killing division agents and JTF causes harm to civilians by way of depriving them of resources and protection
killing agents and JTF who did nothing to him is morally as bad as killing civilians
he definitely killed civilians at city hall
he worked with hostile factions who kill civilians

[glad spruce]

Nobody's perfect

[wicked gorge]

Name one morally right person in the games

[ashen jungle]

I mean, Paul Rhodes has done bugger all to actually help and just endlessly complain, so he's in the moral right, technically.

[sick lantern]

Roy Benitez is a solid bloke

Jessica Kandel did essential research on the virus

[torn shoal]

doesnt he lead the haven settlement ?

also id rather have vivian coming back

she was funny

[wicked gorge]

Small problem with that

[torn shoal]

also tbh in div universe, not doing anything is way better than doing anything, seeing how things usually go

[torn shoal]

same problem with keener and theo tho

as we say everytime there is a pb : we pump

[wicked gorge]

Not really, it’s more of your gonna have play a jigsaw puzzle and put her back together

[torn shoal]

im pretty sure keener didnt came back alive from the morgue

[wicked gorge]

Keener didn’t blow himself up now did he? :p

[torn shoal]

keener didnt got shot on the liberty island either, u get my point ?

[ashen jungle]

I pity the actor they got to detonate themself instead of Conley.

remember that the blood splattered out when she did.

[torn shoal]

its cleaners, they are so much zaelots im sure one of them would gladly accept

or u know, some forced volontary

[ashen jungle]

Yeah sorry, but thinking she's still alive is some weapons grade silliness.
If she's back, I am probably going to just stop entirely. It's a step too far for me.

[torn shoal]

oh no im not saying she is still alive, im saying that would just be funny

[wicked gorge]

You know if you think about, the division sticky bombs don’t have enough explosive force to vaporize bodies, so she had modified sticky or a shit ton of explosives

[torn shoal]

but we would go from vaguely serious tone to complete unhinged stuff

well achktually she had a fire sticky not explosive

[ashen jungle]

She had a bunch of special fuel strapped to her body, or just a metric-ton of the c4 that us agents apparently carry at all times.

[torn shoal]

i wish we could use that much explosives in game

[ashen jungle]

We do, but only on bank walls.

it's a vault wall, structural weakness or not: that's a BIG boom

[torn shoal]

we do on tots build too but its bad :(

hollywood event make it very fun tho

[ashen jungle]

gameplay explosions aren't part of the canon, and not relevant to this

[torn shoal]

arent spec weapon part of canon ?

i mean outside of builds, a grenade launcher is still a huge boom machine

[ashen jungle]

A grenade that you shoot is not the same level of power as a brick of c4

[wicked gorge]

I wouldn’t call it a boom machine, more of a shrapnel spreader

[ashen jungle]

I mean, as we use them, it's barely a cherry bomb.

[wicked gorge]

Real agents uses the mini gun

[wicked gorge]

So from a technical standpoint, couldn’t we view the JTF as bad guys?

[sick lantern]

No

[ashen jungle]

"we're the only faction actively trying to save all people, and helping kick off mass rebuilding by setting up an infrastructure of sustainable future plans, oh and we aren't trying to slaughter everyone who is sick/make people sick/start work camps/control the world through the illuminati/mass deal drugs/rule through fear"
Totally the villains, yeah.

What absolute monsters.

[wicked gorge]

I said technical standpoint. A lot of people (mainly ones within dark zones) probably have a distaste for the government after being abandoned

[ashen jungle]

Everyone who organised that to happen is a corpse at the bottom of a pile of corpses.

The Outcasts need to get over it.

"they left us on an island, so we're gonna use puppies to infect orphans". Literal canon, btw.

[wicked gorge]

That’s why I took the pleasure and executing that outcast

Im not saying the JTF is bad but you have to look at it from other perspectives sometimes to understand

[ashen jungle]

No, no you do not.

[wicked gorge]

Why not

[torn shoal]

cause the jtf on the ground isnt the jtf that said "fk thoses civilians i dont care about them we only save ourselves"

the gov did that, and they are basically all dead now, which is why a power vacuum created all this chaos with so many people filling it

and its also the reason we gotta look for that chain of succession to avoid mcmanus getting the job

also u dont need people to be perfect, u need them to aim to do good stuff, jtf rn is trying to do that

[wicked gorge]

Hey Lyfe

Im talking NYC JTF

[torn shoal]

there is no jtf in ny anymore

its peacekeepers now

[wicked gorge]

Once again no, the peacekeeper are JTF that broke away to form a settlement

The JTF is still active but mainly in midtown

[torn shoal]

OK but that doesnt change what I said before, Jtf soldiers arent responsible for gov fk ups

[tepid ibex]

Mhm mhm

[sleek plover]

damn i hate lmb

[sinful mauve]

bet this guy still stuck in midtown cause he hate LMB lel.

[stiff terrace]

Ima be I think thr jtf us dead our “jtf” is recruits from settlements I don’t think you can calm it a joint task force if it’s not a joint if any force. No police, national guard, etc

[sick lantern]

don't think he ever played div 1, actually

[cold bramble]

Have I missed a new development regarding the jtf?

[glad spruce]

Not really

Just your good'ol arguments about right and wrong

[cold bramble]

Oh lol

[wicked gorge]

A one sided argument but essentially

[wicked gorge]

The pure irony of this is true

[ashen jungle]

Rule 12 folks, no bullying.

[wicked gorge]

Does that include if you bully yourself?

[torn shoal]

its called self depreciation and its still frowned upon

[wicked gorge]

Yeah well you can’t stop me from talking negative about myself

[torn shoal]

i cant, but rivens can

that hammer has some powerful tricks up its sleeve

[wicked gorge]

If you think she can stop you you’re fairly mistaken

[late void]

We can at least stop you doing it publicly in this server

[wicked gorge]

Im fine with that

[tepid ibex]

Oh, he has. His beliefs are as firm as they ever were since 2021.

A character in and of himself, he is.

[glad spruce]

Say what you will about Jacobin, but he does have strong beliefs.

[ashen jungle]

Oh is that LMB guy's name.

[glad spruce]

Do the scouts

[torn shoal]

could say the same about u tho

[cold bramble]

Why was my message deleted?

[ashen jungle]

@cold bramble I'm going to assume you asked for gameplay/technical help? This is the lore dicussion channel.

[glad spruce]

Helping my nephew with building his PC.

So I'll be a little late with my summary

[glad spruce]

Manhunt: Mutiny - Comm#10 - Reaching out.

||After a firefight, a defector,; Lieutenant Adkins, tries to negotiate with some True Sons loyalists, and the latter tells him he swore an oath. Adkins retorted, saying he didn't sign up to rule over people.||

||The loyalists calls Adkins a traitor, but the Lieutenant says it's better than being a slave to a broken cause. The loyalists insists on their rhetoric, telling Adkins he doesn't speak for them.||

||Adkins argues that he speaks for the ones who remembered what the JTF stood for, and tries to appeal to the loyalists, saying they shouldn't die for something that's already dead.||

[ashen jungle]

How long did it take you to throw the magnetic screwdriver through a wall?

[glad spruce]

I was more frustrated that my brother didn't bother to bring a power plug for the case. Oh, and the fact that the monitor HDMI plug isn't compatible with the HDMI cable that was available, so here comes an adapter xD

[glad spruce]

The way I see with how things might conclude with this season, and with the fracture that True Sons is dealing with, I'd reckon some of them would go back to the JTF.

Yes, I know, some of y'all have the bloodkust to kill every last one of 'em. And yes, I'm aware that the civilian settlements in DC and the survivors will be displeased, considering the damage the True Sons inflicted on the city.

But we still need all the allies we can get, whether we like it or not, and no matter how much it offends our morals.

[torn shoal]

there is another reason, we should always allow people to become better

even the worst people you know can redeem themselves

not only its a good thing, but loyalists that see there is another way out that we accept they might think again about it

[ashen jungle]

I dont think that really counts when you knowingly launched chemical weapons against a civvie population because you were bored.

"hey fred, this'll be funny"

[torn shoal]

i mean a punishment is obviously appropriate

but if people wanna change for the better, we should help them

[ashen jungle]

You thinking rich actor punishment? 3 days in jail and get told to not do it again?

[torn shoal]

obviously not

[ashen jungle]

they can get out early if they pinky swear not to murder dozens if not over a hundred people. again.

[torn shoal]

i mean im not sure gunning down people saying "yeah we dont wanna be bad people anymore" is a good thing

[ashen jungle]

Obviously the plot is moving towards us working together long-term, but that doesn't mean they can be "redeemed" or whatever.

[torn shoal]

they can, if they actually managed to redeem themselves is another story

[ashen jungle]

That'd be like inviting the people who murdered City Hall's CP in to our main ba...... nvm I'm out.

[torn shoal]

how i see it is, everyone is redeemable, but not everyone wants to be redeemed

but if they dont got the chance, then they got no choice but double down on being vilains

its like, u can choose living a bad life and hurt people but you'll live fine, or be executed with no chance of changing, obv u gonna double down

obv im not saying to be just like "yeah all good we dont care u killed people"

but tbh, seeing how keener is getting "comfy" in boo rn, im not sure we gonna see any real punishment either

[ashen jungle]

It's good to be reminded of how this place thinks sometimes.

[torn shoal]

i mean, people dont think themselves as evil, every bad guy is fighting for what they think is right

their view is just heavily skewed

apocalypse does that to people tbh

[ember vector]

We could also try to see if the notions of good and evil are still viable in a post-apocalyptic world. I'm sure it's been talked a lot already but I still want to point out the fact that we as Agents have killed a massive amount of people, a lot of times people who were just minding their own business like guarding a place or scouting a location (even if it was for nefarious reasons). And how many times have we (mistakenly) pointed a gun at civilians in the first game or scared them to death with our explosions and such?!

[sick lantern]

scaring civilians doesn't equate to mass murder or any of the other crimes the division stops

[surreal hearth]

Seems like Anderson has been heavily desperate to get back on nat side but ended up talking to a black tusk representative being a smartass to him. Hilarious

[autumn island]

"Alright hold on" "..." "..." "..." "You're... still on call...?

[surreal hearth]

Funny you should ask, I was supposed to listen to the commafter I concluded the previous scour, but it was frozen.

[surreal hearth]

Yeah just like that

[sudden mortar]

I still think the comms is kinda broken with those akward silence seconds, like
BT guy: she will be busy later.
silence
Anderson: funny guy...

[surreal hearth]

All of that just to listen to “please hold” and then hangs up

[sudden mortar]

BT hired some ex telemarketing and custom service people I see.

[glad spruce]

The tease from Orkanos (Div 2's game director) is interesting

[ashen jungle]

if it's a pic, DM me the link and ill put it in here

[cold bramble]

Is that today?

I know he mentioned some thing was going to be revealed soon but I haven’t heard anything since

[ashen jungle]

Div2 game director posted this teaser image, credit to Hawkster for the link.

[cold bramble]

Ooh that’s a good teaser

[surreal hearth]

Some miss the JTF days when it was all about helping people in need good to see someone remembering it

[surreal hearth]

Some people can change I mean look at the outcome and the consequences when joining the black tusk

Even if we were to assassinate or kidnap Anderson, the true sons leadership cannot die that easily

The disparity part is that Anderson is a coward. Least ridgeway took a stand, fought, and died like a soldier he is

[torn shoal]

thats still their goal tho

[sinful mauve]

Is this the fight you think you can win?

Looks like I heard this from keener during the WONY teaser trailer

[rich lark]

Is it just me who finds it funny that we got all this sci-fi advanced tech in 2016 within lore

[autumn island]

And its still around September in 2017

[rich lark]

Well first games 2015 so we're just getting close to 2017

But yea the idea of all these advanced robots and AIs and holograms existing before pokemon go makes me laugh

[torn shoal]

all notions of dates were erased, we were in 2016 at the start and now its removed, there is no date set anymore

[glad spruce]

I believe in 2020/2021 years in the games timeline :copium:

[cosmic niche]

The military does have stuff decades before you actually see it. So bt have robotics and others having ai is reasonable.

[rich lark]

Nope you can very clearly tell it's 2015 in div 1

[torn shoal]

yeah, as i said, its not canon anymore

[sick lantern]

how?

[wicked gorge]

Just by piecing evidence together and the fact Manny said he wish he could go back to 2015 and 360 no scope Amherst with 2 taking place 7 months after the initial outbreak

[sick lantern]

i remember something about Resurgence and/or the dates in The World of The Division informing my opinion at some point, but I forgot

[wicked gorge]

I forgot about resurgence aside it taking place between 1 and 2

[ashen jungle]

You should look up the official info on Resurgence, it's not just between 1 and 2.

[wicked gorge]

I thought the project got canned honestly

[ashen jungle]

It and div3 are both going ahead as planned.

[wicked gorge]

Good to know

[sick lantern]

the prologue section takes place before 1
in an iirc sponsored video, NGN said something along the lines of "x amount of days since the outbreak began and y amount of days since the shd was activated" and an npc said "we should've been activated a week ago" so i was trying to infer dates from that

[torn shoal]

what, what project got canned ?

[ashen jungle]

Nothing that has any bearing to this channel.

[glad spruce]

Heartlands.

[wicked gorge]

I was talking about resurgence

I thought it got quietly canned alongside heartland

[ashen jungle]

You thought wrong.

[sleek plover]

If post div3, if america do gets rebuilt, I worry if true sons, BT and its similar kinds would live on as a form of political party or sth.

Hell, i can already see former.cleaners forming a ngo or sth

[cold bramble]

Yeah I can see the cleaners doing something like that tbh

[torn shoal]

im not seeing the ip going in any direction like that tbh

unless its for comedy effect

[glad spruce]

Manhunt: Mutiny - Comm#11 - The Informant

||General Anderson debriefs with Major Kernel to thank him for his efforts in rooting out the defectors, including the assassination plot against the general.||

||As gratitude, Anderson promotes Kernel to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, which he finds it odd a little bit. Not just because he felt he didn't deserve the promotion, but rather his surname has a nice ring to his new rank, which he'll never hear the end of it.||

||So, Anderson implores Kernel to set the tone, as his new rank won't mean squat if he doesn't assert his authority, so he must do what it takes to earn the privilege he was just given.||

[sinful mauve]

||So potential climax boss or the General himself||

[glad spruce]

||Or a potential HVT Scout target before hitting the General in the Climax.||

[cold bramble]

Interesting…

Currently working to catch up with the scouts and looking forward to the finale

Finally will probably be out by the time I am on next though. I’m wrapped up in helldivers atm haha

[torn shoal]

its unlikely wwe get anderson as the boss in climax, most likely his 2nd

if we actually get anderson, i dont think we gonna kill him, like schaffer

[frosty bluff]

If we were to capture him, where would we store him? Jailbuddy or swapped out with Keener?

[torn shoal]

might free up keener

[glad spruce]

It'll be like 2 weeks for Keener to spend in the cell lol

[frosty spoke]

Whats even funnier, Kelso supposed to vet him when she got back, but everyone kinda forgot about that

[glad spruce]

Yeah, but then she has the presidential clearance from Faye's watch, so she had to go off the grid, so to speak

Given her re-appearance in the comms, I'm 100% sure she'll be featured in the climax mission.

[glad spruce]

So, like I said a few weeks ago, I predict we'll kill Anderson in the climax mission.

[torn shoal]

i highly doubt that, it would require him to actually put up a fight and not pee in his pants the second we look at him

[wicked gorge]

Well even cowards will fight if backed into a corner

[sick verge]

||This is actually kinda sweet. Shows Anderson picked up that little quirk from lieutenant colonel Tom Seargent||

[sick verge]

We'll the manager did potentialy have some custom armor, similiar to that of Shaeffer, made for Anderson

[torn shoal]

usually no, they will pee themselves and beg for mercy

[torn shoal]

if he get some power armor that make him invincible for a while we might fight him, but that would be pretty over kill for a guy that doesnt know how to fight at all

[sick verge]

He wouldn't be the first coward that has a boss fight

[torn shoal]

whos the first ?

[sick verge]

What was his name again. Lloyd? Floyd? That outcast

[proud flax]

Lloyd he's dead

[sudden mortar]

so we are killing Anderson probably, I'm telling you guys, they to stop spoiling us by saying the new outfits names on patch notes.

[sick verge]

Ik. And he was a coward

[frosty spoke]

Well to be fair the first time we met him it wasn't even a boss fight (not with him), and by the time we met him a second time he worked up some muscles and wasn't much of a coward at all

[proud flax]

Yes

[proud flax]

Yeah I was surprised about that I was like ok probably easy boss fight support boss nope heavy flame thrower with a long range

[sick verge]

Not much else to do in a JTF cell other then hit the gym

[sleek plover]

Gonna be clever with the air conditioner to make the bastard suffer

play justin bieber classics, ration him buldak noodles

[glad spruce]

I should also mention they added two additional comms for this Manhunt with today's update.

[sick lantern]

prisoners of war have rights

[late void]

doesn't have to be in East Mall, can be anywhere (and when you want one to spawn, they can take hours...)

[sleek plover]

True sons are not human

[ashen jungle]

So they are aliens, I knew it!

[surreal hearth]

Even if Anderson flees like a coward, we’re bound to have some defector support this time so we’re not gonna be fighting alone this time

Anderson is unknown at the moment that our priorities is to find the graffiti artist responsible for the mutiny

[glad spruce]

Who cares who made the graffiti? What matters is that they sparked teh rebellion, allowing us to gain new allies.

[torn shoal]

we didnt really fight him either tho ?

[sick verge]

You killed him in the last manhunt

[torn shoal]

yeah but it wasnt really a big fight, it was a very basic boss

it was a 3 part boss right ? we fought some true son and heynas boos too ?

[sick verge]

Yeah

[ember vector]

So the climax mission will take place this Tuesday!

[glad spruce]

Yeah

And the location has been hinted at, many times

[wicked gorge]

I knew it was gonna be the ||Grand Washington Hotel||

[frosty bluff]

Really? I thought it was going to be at ||ViewPoint Museum||...

[ashen jungle]

I was hoping for ||White Oak|| again, for the joke.

Although on a more serious note, 2 HVT Bounties being in the same zone so far does sorta imply that said zone might just be the place.

[wicked gorge]

Don’t tell ‘em Rivens, they’ll be angry if it’s ||White Oak||

I know the zone from Hawkster telling me but I ain’t gonna actually spoil the zone

[sleek plover]

Its the hidden Black tusk moon base

[torn shoal]

everybody know ||White oak is over rated, instead let's go to white house, the better White||

[wicked gorge]

Don’t disrespect White Oak

Best Manhunt missions out there

[torn shoal]

im a white oak hater

[wicked gorge]

White oak hates you too

[frail coyote]

Currently doing Battle for Brooklyn, realize I am fried as an old timer coming back.
-Hoskins is sketchy from the first mission, especially when you listen to the recording in the end of the mission and it says "we tried calling Hoskin but she didn't pick up for 30 minutes" ... could be she is over worked but I doubt it.

• her sister is a cleaner, why wasn't this woman dead before I even shown up, they are a judas people

need to sleep now, will finish the story tomorrow

[obtuse chasm]

im a returning player since the mananger event what did i miss so far?

[torn shoal]

not much, true sons are in mutiny now and the alliance with bt is over

[obtuse chasm]

looking at it now it feel kinda weird thats true son is an ally now their footsteps give me ptsd lol

[torn shoal]

true sons as a whole arent allied, only defectors, its still a minority of them

[glad spruce]

Natalya Sokolova tried to establish a pact between the Black Tusk and the prominent hostile D.C factions, and we stopped that.

True Sons are in a civil war, one side is fighting for Anderson, the other is fighting against him.

And we're helping the defectors for their Operation Rising Echo.

[wicked gorge]

Was a cleaner, Hoskins is from the Hearts on Fire audiobook and im pretty sure she killed her sister in it, im not too sure tho but someone will politely correct me if im wrong

[glad spruce]

Completely correct, Phoenix.

Hoskins had no choice but to kill her sister, Johanna Fisher, when she saw how too far gone she had become as a Cleaner

[wicked gorge]

Thank you, I haven’t gotten the chance to listen to the audiobook so I was going off NGN memory

[frail coyote]

I dunno still sketched out because that audio comm I picked up said "we tried to contact hoskin but she wouldn't respond"

and thats what led to the clinic being totalled

[wicked gorge]

Hawkster would have to weigh his opinion since he’s more in touch with me but I think the invasion of the clinic was going on alongside attempting to extract Kandels

She’s also stressed since she isn’t the defacto leader with Keener being locked in a cell along with Theo being cleared but not arriving back in Brooklyn

Justice for Keener also

[sick lantern]

agreed, i'm all for holding him accountable for his crimes

[wicked gorge]

Nah, free my man

[ashen jungle]

Off a short plank into the sea, yeah 100% agreed.

[wicked gorge]

Let him walk free -_-

[ashen jungle]

Into a propellor.

[wicked gorge]

Okay so we’re doing the genie stick. Keener shall walk free of his unjustified imprisonment after attempting to aid allies and wont be harmed and have a peaceful life

[sick lantern]

fwiw it's "shtick"

[wicked gorge]

Autocorrect

[ashen jungle]

You're also thinking of a monkey's paw, a genie just grants wishes, not always ones with a negative turn.

[wicked gorge]

Thinking of something else then, I might of been thinking of a Jin

I appreciate the callout

[ashen jungle]

I think it's more traditionally "djinn", at least going by my overwatching of early Supernatural.

[wicked gorge]

You mean early Jeffery Dean Morgan from father to Negan

[ashen jungle]

Think "start to end of season 5".

aka: the best period.

[wicked gorge]

I could never get into Supernatural, which is weird cause I love horror and supernatural stuff

[glad spruce]

Do you remember which comm, in specific?

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Police

Is this the one you're referring to?

[wicked gorge]

Is there another one where it talks about not getting into contact with Hoskins

[glad spruce]

Oh, that comm:
https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Sacrifice

[torn shoal]

wym aiding allies ?

i dont think killing jtf, shd agents, and civies count as aiding allies if we are supposed to be allies

but now i learn that rivens is into supernatural, which shouldnt be a surprise, but im mad i didnt think of it sooner

im still waiting to get in that show someday, but damn it look so long

[wicked gorge]

Be a man and watch the superior Walking Dead

[torn shoal]

I watched walking dead and then gave up after season 2 that was the worst shit show I ever saw

genuinely the worse show I saw in a decade at that moment so that's something

[ashen jungle]

It improves, there was a writers strike on during Season 2, so it....suffered.
trust me, I'm a connoisseur of bad media. There's worse long running shows.

but more related to div2: i do hope we get a mini-series at some point.

[torn shoal]

i wish we do, but im not seeing it happenning anytime soon tbh

if div 3 happen and its a big hit we might see something, but not before

which is sad cause there is so much potential for it

if def would be better than some shows out there

just the setting alone would be cool

[wicked gorge]

Season 2 had a lot of issues with the director of season 1 leaving due to AMC withholding funds and refusing to paid the director his share. That’s why Dale dies differently compared to the comics since his actor and the director were close friends

[torn shoal]

that wasnt my issue with the show tbh, it was overall bad af, with one of the worst acting i saw on tv, i know writers were on strike thats why the story is shit, but actors werent, also common sense wasnt either

i can only facepalm so much before i hurt myself

[glad spruce]

Climax mission, tomorrow

[torn shoal]

yeah, i ran through the manhunt missions this weekend to have it ready for tomorrow

some of thoses missions were annoying to complete but im here

[turbid trench]

i am trying to build a bleed build and it looks like i need a gear set called Ongoing Directive(is that what its called) and i have looked on the map and also in new york and i cant see it

or is it a special drop?

[late void]

@turbid trench this channel is intended for discussion of the game lore, your question would be better put in #ask-td2-community or #td2-build-advice

[turbid trench]

oh my bad i didnt see that

[ember vector]

I just realized the location for tomorrow's climax mission was revealed in Scout 10 as well.

[wicked gorge]

Which one was that again, I haven’t gotten it

[ember vector]

||The True Sons defectors are planning a massive attack against the Foundry codenamed Operation Rising Echo.|| That description was the Intel for Scout 10.

[stiff terrace]

Isn’t/wasn’t there the cryptid thought at one point was in production or is under way?

[ashen jungle]

Say what.

[glad spruce]

It's time

[sleek plover]

Its the black tusk moon base people

[ashen jungle]

Iiiinteresting, so that felt very much like ||a finale to the DC factions being a threat, barring any "oh but i was the mastermind all along's!" coming out of the woodwork. ||

[glad spruce]

Is there ||an ending cutscene?||

[ashen jungle]

Yep, after ||Anderson's death.||

I swear they're reading this channel, because ||it also puts paid to the Mayhem returning rumours, and Outcasts are confirmed to be "leaderless". ||

[autumn island]

Next season is going to be "To catch a Dictator"

[patent narwhal]

I'm not sure how I feel about ||manny saying that us executing people isn't how we operate when that's been our entire thing aside from like 2 maybe 3 manhunts|| it takes me out a bit

[glad spruce]

It's not like ||Mayhem or The Strategist were willing to let us apprehend them. It was do or die.||

[glad spruce]

Man, ||those two cutscenes gave me chills||

Excited to what Year 8 will bring

[ember vector]

I'm excited and curious to see where things will go from here.

[sudden mortar]

I am starting to see a pattern here ||maybe we will go after Nat on Washington airport as the next Manhunt, and then she flies to one another location that probably will be at the division 3 location.||

[torn shoal]

well i was right in the end ||anderson doesnt fight himself, he sent people to die for him, we never got to meet him||

[glad spruce]

Is it okay to summarize the last two comms? I know we can get them in the climax mission.

[torn shoal]

yeah for thoses who dont play

[glad spruce]

I remember back in the interviews before Battle for Brooklyn's release, Yannick said Year 7's narrative will focus on tying up loose ends.

Now that I've finished the Climax mission, I now understand

[ember vector]

And ||General Anderson|| has been a big part of the last few seasons and in how the story went forward following ||the death of Faye Lau|| as he came to be ||the catalyst for the renewed alliance between the True Sons and the Black Tusk after the first one failed (remember Captain Lewis?!)||. I'm pretty excited to see where we go next! ||Alani Kelso is still out there with the Presidential Clearance on Faye Lau's watch, Aaron Keener is still in the BOO's prison cell just chilling and waiting, Bardon Schaeffer is awake and we now know he is the key to getting access to Black Tusk bunkers...|| I still haven't forgotten about the bioreactor as well that was stolen from us by Black Tusk at the end of the Stovepipe Manhunt.

[glad spruce]

Well, if recovering the bioreactor to make the BSAV vaccines on our behalf doesn't work out, we still got that Printer

[ashen jungle]

re: manny.
I fully get why he was saying that we should|| apprehend Anderson and not just execute him on the spot,|| he's trying to put a permanent end to any potential flare up of other True Sons who we didn't kill at the|| Foundry||/already defect. No better way to end a rebellion than to kill it before it starts.

||Anderson's speech towards the end of the Manhunt about being the "true sons of liberty" ||will have struck a chord with some of them, and they might be a future issue.

[glad spruce]

And like Manny said in the ending cutscene, ||just because we fractured those hostile factions, it don't mean their remnants won't try to bring chaos across D.C||

||No doubt some of the True Sons loyalists will see Anderson's death as martyrdom, and try to continue where he left off.||

[torn shoal]

||yeah but they shouldnt be a major threat anymore||

[ashen jungle]

On the other hand, I 100% sympathise with ||the guy who killed him, it must've been hell under Anderson.||

And without having listened to all the seasons comms, I gather that the person the ||mole for us went to rescue was his ex GF or whatever. ||

I doubt many male soldiers would have the nickname of the ||goddess of Marriage. ||

[glad spruce]

||Well, Adkins did tell his ex-gf to leave the Foundry and find shelter at the Castle Settlement, since he didn't want her to be in the crossfire, and wanted her to be start being honest with herself, and no longer live the lies that Anderson told them.||

[ashen jungle]

I'm just referring to how he mentions a ||"Juno" in the mission, which I guess if it's not his GF, it's another unrelated solider. ||

Seemed thematically appropriate for it to be her.

[glad spruce]

Right.

I assumed the naming referred to the defectors and their defiance against Anderson rising up.

Man, Jacobin is not gonna be happy that the Castle Settlement agreed to give shelter to the defectors.

[torn shoal]

well its not up to him anyway

[ashen jungle]

I'm just picturing Sokolova sitting in a very empty base, all the plans just....gone, all the barracks she had set up sitting empty.
Just getting smashed on bloody mary's. She feels like the type.

The True Sons that stole those ||supplies during the Pact Finale ||are honestly some of my favourite characters. I hope we never find out who they are, just saw the way the wind was blowing.

[glad spruce]

Yeah, ||unless there were another dozen of them that we didn't encounter during the Pact's finale||, I feel like we screwed the pooch on that one.

[ashen jungle]

Honestly, it's worth it to imagine Nat' pulling her hair out over all this.

lol I just saw the auto-log. That bot really doesn't like that word.

[glad spruce]

Yeah. I have to go around it if I wanna use that word 😭

[gaunt ice]

i saw the finale before i did it, and ||the defectors shot first from the looks of it||

so heres my nutcase theory, what if ||those defectors actually work for BT and they intentionally ended Anderson so he cant spill the beans on whatever he knows about their operations||

[sleek plover]

Manny should be president eventuallg

[gaunt ice]

i mean for starters ||these guy’s signature move is using riot foam to incapacitate anyone lol||
but even ignoring that, ||the way they talked was suspicious(or the scene was animated in a really weird way). i mean the guy clearly had him incapacitated, showed like 0 care for his 2 buddies who got speed blitz and throws the clearly downed Anderson down the window before saying “target down”||

[glad spruce]

Well, you are a nutcase, chairs.

I still remember your cosnpiracy theories over Mari, of all people

[gaunt ice]

i mean it makes sense if you think about it for once

also also how do you shoot first like 3 times and still whiff that much for the guy to 1 tap you in a 3v1😭

[torn shoal]

on other news, water is wet

[ashen jungle]

||He very clearly looked distressed over the other 2 being shot, then crouched and fired himself.
as for killing Anderson: he was clearly in a rage over his time spent under him, and was desperate for revenge. I believe that he wanted to try and do what Manny said, but seeing Anderson murder 2 of his friends, Anderson's supposed own troops, sent him over the edge. ||

@glad spruce tone down the personal attacks. to zero.

||I genuinely don't blame the guy, I'd be angry too if the person who claimed to be my guiding light of a leader started murdering people I consider family. ||

[glad spruce]

Yes, ma'am

[gaunt ice]

||they shot first even before Anderson drew his gun, and the guy crouched down cuz he was being shot at. i rewatched that exact scene like 4 times now and he just looks dead on at Anderson after knocking him down||

||i mean both ways work, his anger is justified too if it was the case i just wasn’t really sold on it tbh, though like i said it could be a problem with how the scene was rendered or the blurry CCTV PoV||

[ashen jungle]

||He went to draw, I made a note of it in my head at the time.||

It was CCTV footage, because that was ||manny's PoV.||

[gaunt ice]

yea i know its meant to look blurry, im saying the scene wasn’t that convincing

[ashen jungle]

it was a guy ||murdering 2 people, then being defenestrated.|| I don't know how it was supposed to look

[gaunt ice]

||i saw him reaching too, but they shot him TWICE before he even shot first which is why i was convinced that those guys weren’t gonna take him in alive ||

[ashen jungle]

I mean, it's not like in the movies. If someone's arm twitches and you suspect a gun, you are going to fill them full of lead.

[gaunt ice]

idk maybe i need some riot foam to believe it more :p

hence its a nutcase theory

[ashen jungle]

someone with a drawn gun doesn't lose to someone who has to draw, unless the person holding the gun is an idiot.

[gaunt ice]

the 2 guys that died

[ashen jungle]

i know they're ||true sons||, but even for them that's a bit much.

||the guys that died were likely trying to follow what Manny said, believing it was their only way to join up with Castle. ||

||the lead guy wanted revenge and just kinda played on hope.|| I guess it worked for the short term at least.

im only saying lead because he has a generic name thats similar to someone else and i can not remember all these characters.

[gaunt ice]

||they hit absolutely nothing like cmon bruh, a leg shot, a shoulder shot, and its not even a quick draw reaction time thing they had their guns trained on him, a stationery target. though this is less relevant to the point i was making but still||
||and these guys are true sons, their entire stitch is using riot foam, half the climax mission is you running through riot foam mines||

i mean it aint that deep but still not the most insane thing to think about as far as insane plot threads tbf

[torn shoal]

the real question is why would your theory be true when it never has been before and nothing says it will be

its not a complicated story with 800 double agents that are in fact triple agent and wait no its quadruple agents after all

its very much straightforward, too much in my taste but still

[gaunt ice]

i’d agree but with all the stuff that kinda happened in the story it wouldn’t be too out there

[proper knot]

How comes in most cutscenes people are only using side arms I figured they’d have used rifle on him

[gaunt ice]

reminds me of how in ancient China they just straight up kill the traitors instead cuz they dont trust back stabbers

again again, its not that deep and im just looking it at the wrong way

[gaunt ice]

most likely a cutscene rendering thing where they cant put the gun you have equipped on accurately so they just have the stock default glock model instead(that is STILL not a usable weapon in the game btw)
for those true sons ehh its whatever they probably just got lazy

munity finale but they brought rifles so they just drill a hole on his shoulder, nobody dies and Arkins is happy

[torn shoal]

ur asking people with strong emotions to not have emotions tho

if u had to deal with the guy responsible for how miserable ur life was for a while, that killed a bunch of your friends, you wouldnt be objective and use proper tactics, you'd just shoot him and throw him

[ashen jungle]

Exactly,|| Anderson was a terror to the True Sons, IIRC he started using....some pretty dark stuff against people he thought were turning away, and even in the mission itself he says if you even suspect they might leave, kill them. ||
I sorta think things worked out for the best, ||Manny is trying to set a good example for the long term, but Anderson really did need to be put down. ||

[mellow herald]

||that was my first thought. the way they were talking were setting off alarm bells in my head lmao||

[glad spruce]

I think the issue is some of us here expect humans in the Division to act logically, all the time.

It never works that way, not while they're living with a post-apocalyptic America, where everything you knew about society died out a year ago.

There'll be groups of people who wanna lash out the state they're in, no matter how much they hurt others. There'll be groups of people using the post-pandemic America as an opportunity to be belligerent.

And yes,. there'll be groups of people who'll keep going to ensure safety for others, even when the odds and hardships are against them.\

[frosty bluff]

What is the lore significance of the hardest boss in the game: "RPG" ✍️

[storm wolf]

so in brooklyn, why was sara working against theo?

[surreal hearth]

Looks like the war is over for now

||Mayhem, that outcast coordinator, and Anderson all gone||

Damn i didn’t think it was going to end that way

||I never would have thought that TF defector2 would put the final nail in the coffin ||

[frosty bluff]

At first, the Bridge settlement welcomed Rikers who were coming over, hoping to give them a new lease of life. However, this would turn false as Rikers would kill Sara's family and the Bridge would respond by telling her to resolve things in a more peaceful manner --causing her to become disillusioned with the Bridge community's goals. As for how she gained control over the Rikers, its most likely she affirmed to a small group of them about the "fantasy world" the Bridge settlement was living and would slowly gain power as a gang boss. She kept this a secret, as her friends didn't know she was now working with the Rikers. At some point between when we became a Riker & the start of BfB, she was approached by the Black Tusk and SHD tech.

[glad spruce]

How Sarah took control was simple, she killed the Riker responsible for murdering her family, impressing the other Rikers, and thus became a psychotic killer with a "Might makes right" mindset

You can learn about this from the Rikers propaganda broadcasts in Brooklyn

[frosty bluff]

I'm forgetting. Was it just that she killed the Rikers responsible and then joined up with the Rikers, or did she --at first-- started interacting and working with the Rikers to gain some sort of influence, found the Rikers responsible for her families death, and killed them --resulting in further influence with the Rikers?

Although, it would be interesting to think she bursted into a building screaming and ruthlessly murdered those Rikers --with the other Rikers stunned at what was happening before she made a speech that impressed them enough to bring her in

[glad spruce]

She killed the Rikers responsible first, then joined up with them

[frosty bluff]

I see...

🤔

I was goin' off what the Div wiki has on her story:

That was her breaking point, as Sarah decided that the people at The Bridge were living in a deluded fantasy, not willing to see the chaos happening outside their home, and took action. She joined the Rikers, and killed the one responsible in a grisly way, both to display her own strength and to show what happens when someone "crosses the line" in her "new world order".

[storm wolf]

Thank you. I just finished the nission where we kill danvers in a zeppelin. Is there more story after that?

[glad spruce]

There's the ending cutscene, and that's that.

[glad spruce]

Ooohhh, yeah that was me who worked on that page.

I'll probably need to fix that

[surreal hearth]

The black Tusk are complete. Idiots in building a zeppelin.

[frosty bluff]

While they essentially wasted lots of their resources to build a zeppelin that would ultimately get shot down, thinking about it now, the Zeppelin isn't a bad idea if you think that a majority of the enemies lack anti-air capabilities other than rifles. Only real defense is if someone found a manpad laying around and tried to use it, or there is a Division team nearby that can find and hack Black Tusk missile launchers.

Although, I can think of more stealth approaches to bringing a storm of drones than a gigantic blimp you can see dozens of miles away

Such as... idk... a helicopter or strapping a drone crate to the back of a warhound

[sudden mortar]

Wait a second the rogue agents have an advanced AI that can hack anything, I think we should put some SAM launchers just in case

-some BT soldier

Btw, the final manhunt cutscene gives me Dark Winter trailer vibes.

[frosty bluff]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sick verge]

People keep forgetting tho ||the Hyenas still have Zodiac. He and Mayhem were the last 2 council members. Now he runs solo. But he is also responsible for the spice creation and distribution||

[sudden mortar]

Emile Shaw might have been lucky, but without Black Tusk or other factions support, it's unlikely that a single person of the faction can rebuild all of it.

[frosty bluff]

Its their in-house missile system that could be used for rocket bombardment (Coney Island Ballpark, Tidal Basin), but just happens to find itself in an Anti-Aircraft role (Tidal Basin). Making lore where there was none, its probable they had have that system there to deter incoming hostiles (idk who though because we casually strolled into the complex, and its not like Division agents would jump directly into the complex via heli)

[glad spruce]

Depends if Zodiac is still alive, since he was an addict to Spice (Hyena drug).

If he didn't die from OD yet, I'll eat one of my fingers.

[surreal hearth]

I hope he literally dies an OD

What disturbed me so much about the foundry is even though I didn’t get to experience the raid, but the structure looks cool

[glad spruce]

I played the raid a few times before, so it was cool to see the difference

[surreal hearth]

Anderson was extremely desperate to get back at nat side constantly but was denied repeatedly by a BT fax machine and I’m also guessing that he was using the foundry as his Base of operations which makes sense

||I salso saw a true son black tusk logos infused together meaning that this was a “cemented partnership” along with whatever black tusk toys they had on the foundry before we destroyed it all ||

[surreal hearth]

Tbh it gave me last man battalion moments

I honestly miss fighting those guys again

[sudden mortar]

Well, PMC aren't active in a single city or state, so they might still exist outside of White tusk.

[surreal hearth]

I’m wearing Andersons jacket cuss he won’t be needing it anymore

There’s actually one thing I have in mind that started this defection to begin with and we owe it all to captain Lewis.

[sick verge]

I'll keep you to that. But also I just don't want them to off screen him

[sinful mauve]

Wearing General Anderson's jacket..

Me: Look at me... I'm the general now

[sick lantern]

the black tusk themselves brought an amount of Carl Gustaffs into circulation in NYC, set themselves up for failure there lol

[surreal hearth]

Wear it proudly it’s a trophy now

[sudden mortar]

You still need his pants
|| I mean his outfit parts from the stretch goals boxes ||

[surreal hearth]

Just use true sons pants or the redeemer version

[meager fiber]

I haven’t played since like the kelso manhunt, can someone update me on the lore

[glad spruce]

Are we talking about Y6S3 or Y5S3? Because there's two Kelso Manhunts

[meager fiber]

The most recent one

[glad spruce]

Okay, shouldn't be a problem.

So, Y7S1. We rescued a middle-aged man who's dubbed "The Manager", who used to work as logistics manager for Black Tusk/Sokolov Concern, disrupting Black Tusk's supply lines in the process

Y7S2. Natalya Sokolova tried to unite three D.C factions (Hyenas/Outcasts/True Sons) against the Division with Black Tusk as the spearhead. We stopped that from happening, breaking the Black Tusk/True Sons alliance, and forcing Nat into hiding.

Y7S3. We've worked with the True Sons defectors during an uprising happening within the faction to bring General Anderson to justice. ||During Operation Rising Echo, we helped the defectors in their attack on the United Ironworks Foundry (location of Iron Horse raid), leading them to kill Anderson. Despite that, the uprising worked out, and we now have the defectors as allies, having a place in the Castle Settlement.||

||Oh, and to add more, with the mess we caused in Y7S2/Y7S3's finale, the three D.C factions are more fractured than ever. But we Division agents gotta make ready for the future battles.||

[meager fiber]

Word okay, that’s pretty interesting. Thank you!

[sudden mortar]

Hey I saw somebody on Reddit saying that the ||ruin Hunter is actually Johnson but with cybernetics augmentations, to be honest I think this might be true because we have seen how much technology capacity BT has and also the fact that this hunter is using the same pants of the recruiter uniform, (same knee pads and leg armor plates).||

[ashen jungle]

If that's the case, then ||literally any death we've seen so far is in question.|| All tension is gone from the plot.
If someone can survive a ||direct mortar strike that leaves a MASSIVE crater around them, then they can survive anything.||

[sick lantern]

maybe the mortar was a deepfake.

[glad spruce]

Again, the Hunter is only featured on Master difficulty, so he shouldn't be considered canon

[sudden mortar]

I mean the hunter suits are something on the same level of EOD suits.

[glad spruce]

For christ's sake, they cut a lot of dialog in there.

[ashen jungle]

The ||Div commander who died in div1|| is ||Johnson|| at that point.

[glad spruce]

heavy sigh of frustration

[ashen jungle]

The ||President who was killed by his own secret service? He's still alive too, and he's Sokolova in a Halloween mask.
||

[glad spruce]

Someday, this channel is gonna kill me

[sudden mortar]

And after killing you BT will revive you again.

[ashen jungle]

All the bodies around the city in the mass graves? Deepfakes. The smell is just synthesised.

[glad spruce]

Ah, peace and quiet.

[ashen jungle]

@sudden mortar This is the lore discussion channel, we try to keep the fan-fic stuff out of here.

Especially when it makes literally negative sense.

[glad spruce]

https://x.com/Palle_Hoffstein/status/2024162848612519991

Here's a post from Palle about that dumb Hunter

[sudden mortar]

So it's just a concept enemy that was not supposed to be there, weird.

[sudden mortar]

Btw, wasn't there a woman at the tinkering station called Emma Richards? It has been a few seasons since she disappeared from there.

[torn shoal]

not if keener kill u first

backstabbers gonna backstab after all

[glad spruce]

Okay, that one was pretty funny xD

[torn shoal]

hell yeah, im funny af

[cold spire]

Well... Mmmmmaybe they were using a different type of Rat queen tech!! But still, I expected more from Recruiter tbh

[orchid fox]

https://x.com/Alex_Angel_7567/status/2024238964903641093 this can kill you? XD

[ashen jungle]

Nope, would be just plain silly.

[orchid fox]

nvm he deleted the post context: so does mean all hunters are cannon?

[ashen jungle]

Nah all Hunters can't be canon.

[cold spire]

Well, Meret estate lovebirds did get Rogue tech we hear in comms between Theo and Keener, and none of them knew how it got there. Now Rat Queen got tech that made even Theo surprised, means there's someone better doing something better for more dangerous fellas. It could have ended up, let's say, in Recruiter's hands (wishful thinking).

[ashen jungle]

I don't care what tech someone has, you can not survive being turned into jelly by a mortar.

You could fit what's left of ||Brian|| in a soup cup.

[vital flower]

I mean retcons can happen we see it all the time like with keener but yeah I agree this encounter is probably non canon

[ashen jungle]

The encounter being canon or not is not really my point, the suggestion that it's somehow ||Brian Johnson|| is just playing silly.

[frosty bluff]

||One can see into the broken mask that they aren’t Brian Johnson at all||

[ashen jungle]

If you put it on, it becomes your face, which I honestly love.
Makes me want weird face customisations even more now.

I'd commit several warcrimes if we could have proper facial scarring.

[vital flower]

oh that’s true I do think the design choices being a tad bit similar to said character is just a bit weird maybe just a Hunter thing where some have the same gear

[ashen jungle]

They are technically ||operatives from the same program||, of a sort.

[orchid fox]

just adds to your skin texture burn

[ashen jungle]

It also gives you a prosthetic eye, which is the more impressive bit.

[torn shoal]

isnt that the plot of faceswap ?

or whatever the name of that movie was

[ashen jungle]

Not even close, but I appreciate the enthusiasm.

[sick verge]

what do you mean. we literally see him die at the end of the mission back at white oak. literally standing over him as he dies

also puppeteers was like 2/3 years ago do we really still have to spoiler tag that?

It ran from October 3, 2023 to February 5, 2024.

[ashen jungle]

I like to spoiler tag major plot stuff much later.
I'd still spoiler tag Lau dying if it wasn't on the front of the store at one point.

[sick verge]

fair enough

but yeah the soup can remark wasn't accurate

it should be, but it isn't

[ashen jungle]

i honestly am just in denial.
if all that happened to him after a direct mortar strike was that he dies like a goon in a PG action movie, our actual kill count in the series might just be 0.

[torn shoal]

well, it's less cinematic if he aint with his arm reaching before collapsing

ansd we can prétend his shield tanked a bit I guess

[ashen jungle]

The game is Rated R here, they fully could've shown body parts.

(australian ratings board and any depiction of drugs having a positive impact, oof)

[torn shoal]

yeah but even being rated r, division never went for gore stuff

even too much blood

[sick verge]

So uhm...outcast rusher

also point I wanna bring up the division and reality tend to.....meh, at the rate technology is advancing the next hunter we'll fight might just be a full robot. Which honestly I would find interesting. Black tusk got the tech

[ashen jungle]

obviously it's a joke, but if there was ever a time to show someone go armless, that would've been it.

[torn shoal]

tbh this one is kinda out of the ordinary for the game, i was kinda surprised to see it happen the first time

[sick verge]

yk back in the division 1 survival we had brutal stuff

[torn shoal]

division story is brutal, but never really graphic

[sick verge]

hunters hanging up agents and cutting of their hands to grab their watches

and the executions

[torn shoal]

like we see people hanged and hunters axing agents, but its not very bloody

its mostly "yeah its dark and suggested violent" but never "yeah its bloody/gore/violent"

when u kill people witha headshot their head doesnt explode everwhere

its almost always suggested violence, not actual violence

people have so much gear u dont see them bleed in cinematics, when there are blood trails its for a specific quest that is supposed to stand out

which is fine tbh, im not a fan of gore, especially since most of the time its used as shock value and nothing else

[stiff terrace]

Ima be real the seasons are good but the draw out time is 👀. The event would feel so much better if the narrative related content was separate to the longevity of the grinder stuff. The man hunt feels like reading on page of a book every 2 weeks it really kills drive. Especially when there is a lot of full dialogue so you wait that time frame and get a convo about 2 guards smoking meth in a broom closet after 2 weeks of waiting and task completion.

[torn shoal]

yeah im not a fan of it either, but it seem to keep player retention high enough, so thats something

[sick lantern]

oh, I think I get it now
||the new Hunter is Thaddeus Green or a reference to him from|| The Division: Hunted

||the burns match that he was burnt when the group reunited with Maira, the eye matches that he was shot in the eye by the Korean sniper agent, and Palle calling him “one of the first” Hunters matches that he’s referred to as a very very senior agent when his identity is revealed||

[sinful mauve]

This is just a theory right?

||How the hell he returned after Maira's cell team eliminated him. They sliced him on his throat though||

[sick lantern]

not saying it’s canonically true that ||he survived||, in fact that’s not possible as ||Hunted chronologically hasn’t happened yet|| then again that hasn’t stopped them before
like i said, likely a reference

[sick verge]

Has anyone actually seen if this hunter has like flavor text when he kills you?

[storm wolf]

about the black tusk propaganda broadcast where natahs talks bout felix, who killed the guy?

[frosty bluff]

The Division

[late void]

The player, Felix was one of the minor manhunt lieutenants one season

[stiff terrace]

“Scooorrrreeee boarrrrdd!! Scooorrrreeee boarrrrdd!! Oh what’s wrong!? I kill your brother? I kill him He cry likkka bicsh!!!”-

[glad spruce]

Let's be honest, Nat didn't care for her brother one bit

She saw him as an obstacle to her goals

[wicked gorge]

Just wait for that retcon buddy

[torn shoal]

i dont think she care about anything or anyone other than herself

[glad spruce]

Exactly

No one, for even a single second, should believe the bs she spews on the propaganda broadcasts

[storm wolf]

Need to fix that gear though. No one is using sokolov concern gear anymore. No wonder black tusk is losing the battle

[sick verge]

Ok I have to say it. If that hunter is supposedly one of the first, he's an absolute fraud. You telling me bro has been active for almost an entire year and he only collected 3 watches so far.

[torn shoal]

hunters are not randomly walking around shooting agents, they were supposed to hunt specificaly rogue agents, which are notoriously hard to find

[autumn island]

Until mcmanus said screw it and every agent is rogue

[torn shoal]

yeah but even then, u cant run around killing agents, ur supposed to be discreet, not mow down people down the street

[sudden mortar]

What did you expect from a company's CEO?

[torn shoal]

ur mistaking company coe and ceo of a pmc, which are worlds apart

[ashen jungle]

Nat' is the CEO+founder of BT, but just the CEO of Sokolov Concern,. as her father founded that one.

[glad spruce]

Any agent who isn't aligned with him is considered Rogue, in his eyes

[ashen jungle]

well, he is in charge, so officially he ain't wrong.

we are a secret government program.

[cursive tapir]

Late for the party but for some reason I also thought the defectors shot first at Anderson

I didn’t take that as “BT plants” though, I took it as “Anderson was a real piece of shit, so they took Manny’s request to bring him in alive as more of a suggestion”

[ashen jungle]

Going purely by the graffiti around the climax mission, Anderson was not exactly loved.

[cursive tapir]

Also, do we know what Ellis’s “button” refers to? I feel like they explained it a few seasons ago but can’t quite recall if it was nukes or a secret bunker or something. Trying to think of what plot threads they have left to wrap up before Div 3, whenever that may be

I could see them setting off nukes at the very end of Div2’s seasonal content as a way to set up a nuclear winter environment/create a new dark zone justification for Div3

[glad spruce]

It refers to the presidential clearance for the U.S nuclear arsenal

[weak forge]

Is sokolov concern based in Russia?

[ashen jungle]

I mean, it's not a real company, but yeah I assume it is in the game.
She is Russian.

[tulip patio]

there was this one recording from the defectors that claimed something like "we didn't do all this just to turn on the people we were supposed to protect", but the way the game portrays the True Sons up until now is very... well the best term I could give it is pragmatic, but it's not even that probably

we see them push around settlements, and they did basically betray the JTF, don't see them fighting for stability, but for control, that audio bit felt out of place, unless I missed something

are they trying to sort of shift the story in a way that implies they did some good too? cause idk I missed all that

[autumn island]

They only push around JTF settlements, or settlements that dont want to join or be apart of the true sons, they imply that some of them used to help outside settlements, but now just want to preserve their selves.

[echo hull]

Maybe he has so many that he only carries the special ones? Would be logical not to run around with 20 watches on you at all times?

[sinful mauve]

Freedom hunter: hold my 15 watches

[torn shoal]

I wonder why nat is so much focused on getting the us under her boot, it's def not going great and other places in the world would offer way less resistance

[sick lantern]

that's literally what they do tho

[echo hull]

Recruiter also only has 3, I wonder if he also stashes his away or something? 🤔

[frosty spoke]

Can't post screenshots here, but Puppeteers season launch trailer timestamp 0:23

[sinful mauve]

Yeah Johnson only has 3 watches on his straps

I dunno it's either he kills his own cell team or he uses those watches to gather Intel

[sick lantern]

I'm more accustomed to seeing four at a minimum

[echo hull]

exactly, it’s weird that two so hyped hunters have the fewest watches. Gotta mean they save em somewhere and only showcase big targets they downed or something?

[echo hull]

Omg yes exactly, knew it. Thanks for finding this. I would guess Ruin has the same setup

[sudden mortar]

but you guys also need to remember that Black Tusk used a certain amount of SHD watches to deactivate their network during the "Reign of Fire" trailer. I don't have a doubt that Johnson had a couple of watches and nat just said like: excuse me, we need a few of your watches.

[glad spruce]

It's all about power and control

[glad spruce]

Anyways, finished transcribing this season's comms on the wiki.

[undone nova]

That hunter that wears ruin mask and brian Johnson are the same person?

[ashen jungle]

@undone nova Speculation, but it seems unlikely.

[frosty spoke]

Because she started digging her claws in it even before the pandemic..? And lets not forget about the "Cabal" stuff which I assume doing their thing globaly

[glad spruce]

No. There's no lore about the 'Ruin' Hunter whatsoever,

It was basically fun idea by Palle, and nothing more.

[frosty bluff]

Hunter is just there to aura farm and show off his arm before getting turned into confetti

[ashen jungle]

Also the prosthetic eye that you get when you put the mask on.
Implying that if they are canon, Hunter Masks are REALLY permanent to install.

[glad spruce]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the future Hunters we're gonna face are using Gen 7 Hunter Masks.

[ashen jungle]

Whenever I think of those, I get Deus Ex vibes from them, which makes me very excited for the cosmetics in div3.

[torn shoal]

did she ? its not stated anywhere

[sick lantern]

it is

[ashen jungle]

She did manage to organise an assassination of the sitting US president, which is pretty "controlly"

[torn shoal]

yeah but thats after the pandemic

[sick lantern]

does lyfe still have me blocked? we've been over this

[ashen jungle]

the pandemic didnt only last for a week, lyfe

[torn shoal]

yeah but they said before the pandemic

[ashen jungle]

BT started transferring assests around to key areas before all that

[torn shoal]

if she has tied deep within the gov in the us, i dont see why she wouldnt have the same in other countries, which makes me wonder why she is so focused on the us

whats different in the us ? nukes are all over the world

[ashen jungle]

she has ties with the Cabal, not specifically the US government

im sure they control it

[torn shoal]

yeah i know, but thats not what i mean, she is focused on the us specifically, i dont get why specifically the us

what do they have that the other countries dont have

she could be anywhere with the cabal, and i know we play in the us so the action is there, but she should have a motive to be invested here this deep

[ashen jungle]

because the game series is dealing with a US based secret government agency

called the "strategic homeland division", SHD for short.

[torn shoal]

but thats a reason external to the story, i mean the reason within lore

mcmanus is here cause he was supposed to be in charge of hunter, and we all act here cause thats our job as agents, but nat isnt tied to this place

same for the cabal

[frosty spoke]

She is tied to this place

Sokolov Concern was founded by a Russian businessman, Alexey Sokolov, where his company had dealings with the United States government as far back as the 80s. After his death, his daughter, Natalya Sokolova inherited the company, maintaining its legacy as a manufacturer for "tactical kneepads" and other sorts of military equipments.

During Natalya's partnership with Ortiz Robotics, she represented Sokolov Concern as a pretext for her secret PMC organization; Black Tusk. Over time, that partnership yielded with automated ordnance like Warhounds and Mini-Tanks, Black Tusk's network; Diamond, and the Hovercrafts. In fact, it's allegedly claimed that Sokolov Concern is a major financier for Black Tusk, given they're both led by Natalya herself.

As such, Black Tusk was well-prepared in the months after Green Poison outbreak as they made their move in conquering dozens of sectors in the United States, with Sokolov Concern providing equipment for the PMC's personnel. With factories and deliveries established across the country, Sokolov Concern has been majorly involved in this post-pandemic crisis and the struggle between Black Tusk and the Division.

[torn shoal]

that's not really ties, she just has factories here, not attachement

[frosty spoke]

Her father left family, fled to US, started a new one and made a company there. She then came to US and inherited said company. Then made PMC, the whole infrastructure of which is in US. And thats only a logistical and a bit personal attachment

[frosty spoke]

As for Cabal. They need US resources (?) and its nuclear arsenal. Nat has infrastructure and manpower there, its her "sphere of influence"

[torn shoal]

yeah but thats my grip with it, nothing of it is exclusive to the us, and late events in lore showed that resistance in the us is more than she could handle so far, so why bother staying here instead of changing location where everything would be easier and achieve the same result

the us isnt the only country with nukes, lot of countries have them, but almost none have weapons aviable to everyone making resistance much weaker

moving factories is really not that hard at all

lets say she moved to europe instead, she'd have a lot less resistance, and still plenty of factories to take over to build her stuff

idk, if something doesnt work, u ask urself why, then try to find a way to make it work next time, thats basic "making stuff work" 101

and just being like "lets throw more stuff at the wall until it sticks" is usually not the way to go

i feel like nat is trying to climb a wall with no ladder while there is a door open 5meters away

obv we play a us agent so what happen is in the us, but the vilain should have a reason to be here, not just "she's here cause we are lol"

[eternal wing]

Does anyone know who killed Bill (April's husband) and why?

[sick lantern]

he was in on the BSAV research
implicitly/presumably he was killed to prevent his research from hampering Sokolova/McManus' plan to take over the country

[cosmic niche]

For a game that never had a story or a particular substance. It is not surprising there are gaps after the back filing. It a tom clancy title so that precludes it being anything but us centric

[sick lantern]

i imagine it's difficult to undertake setting up a huge amount of paramilitary infrastructure in many developed countries other than the us

stuff she got from ortiz robotics didn't have to be shipped overseas, amherst was already in the country
and in terms of remaining population centres, armed forces, etc to take advantage of after the outbreak

i think it makes entirely logical sense for the plan to be to take over the US

the american citizens are probably a bit more likely to accept the armed americans as the new governing body than other nationalities

[eternal wing]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what was the BSAV research?

[sick lantern]

the Broad Spectrum Antivirals are the original Mcguffin, they're the cure to any viral disease

president ellis stole the bsav sample to deliver to the BT back at div 2 launch era

[torn shoal]

yeah but its not like it would be hard to fix tho ? just say she tried else where and it didnt work or that there is something in the us specifically that is critical

[eternal wing]

So BSAV had the opportunity to prevent Green Poison from becoming as devastating a pandemic as it was, and these people killed off the researchers and took it for themselves in order to allow for the country to collapse and open up the opportunity of seizing total power?

[sick lantern]

basically

[eternal wing]

D2 lore is way more complex in comparison to D1 lore

Apparently there's some deep state conspiracy I missed😭

[torn shoal]

its just expanded upon the first, thats normal to be more dense

[spare whale]

Who killed them

[glad spruce]

We don't know who.

But given the Cabal, I suspect it's one of their assets who were deployed to ensure their power grab goes unimpeded.

[torn shoal]

their go to assassins are usually hunters

[eternal wing]

What happened to the mayor of NYC? As far as I know, D1 never even implies their fate. I'm not even sure if the latest NYC mayor (in the Division timeline) is even mentioned throughout the game at all!

[glad spruce]

I don't think whatever happened to NYC's mayor is that important, when the Green Poison outbreak basically caused the U.S to collapse entirely

[sick lantern]

statistically my money is on "died"

[slate plank]

just finished the climax mission. what does that mean for the future of the division?

[glad spruce]

That Hyenas, Outcasts, and True Sons are no longer serious threats, and without allies in D.C, it's just us against Black Tusk.

[ashen jungle]

I'm standing by that being a setup for the plot of div3, or more specifically: helping wrap up div2.
Which means that we're likely to get ||3 new factions|| for 3, hopefully no more ||Cleaners/Rikers|| either.

[sick lantern]

i agree/also hope

[ashen jungle]

Controversial statement, but I would be happy with an entirely fresh plot with maybe BT as a long term antagonist, but different enough with a time-jump to make it work.
For all its faults, Far Cry New Dawn handled the time jump well, keeping enough older characters, but letting us move on to new ones in a way that made sense.

[torn shoal]

would be great to see a whole new arc yeah, maybe the survivor stuff is that

one can only hope

[ashen jungle]

I can't imagine a decade or two time-jump in place (maybe even longer, could have the recently born kids as main characters) coming in a DLC for 2, but Survivors could definitely help set it up. If the "nuclear winter" theory that's been floating around holds any water.

[sleek plover]

riker/hyena merger could be good, but it would be more loke Rikers absorbing hyeba drug trade

[ashen jungle]

I'd rather just 3 new ones entirely, no remnants of the old factions. I've had more than enough of the same set of 5 over these last 2 games.

[gaunt ice]

the LMB being the only faction to just go extinct when they were the coolest faction in div1 :(

[torn shoal]

there is only so many archétypes of enemies tho, it would be hard to make something entirely new that wouldnt scream "yeah im the heynas but reskin"

in div a the archétypes were mostly generic, tank heal grenadier assault rusher, it's hard to make them différent from a faction to another

[ashen jungle]

Obv

[mortal flame]

So.. we are just sitting and waiting for Div 3 bits of lore to come out……

at least a book… or a 5 second video that will be dissected by lore theorists everywhere

[surreal hearth]

I wonder what’s going to happen with nat and McManus now that her precious alliance has been shattered completely?

As well as Kelso as she’s now in hiding cuss she’s carrying the one watch that contains the launch codes

[surreal hearth]

What about these cabals aka her “investors” aka the benefactors keeping black tusk going?

[frosty spoke]

#division-universe message
https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/The_Cabal

[surreal hearth]

These shadow groups have been more dangerously involved in taking the US by force even during the initial outbreak. Two members already dead but they were nothing more than puppets or playthings in the end. Ellis knew the risk and became a martyr, while Andersons power tripping days are numbered

The outcome is a rising rebellion against the cabals in the foreseen future

Keener warned us eons ago but the division was arrogant and kept in the dark

[sick lantern]

Launching bioweapons at civilians is a really, really bad way to warn people about anything in general

[glad spruce]

https://youtu.be/o1Wp1RiTkyg?si=caMyYypnJMzZeCtz

NGN video about Mutiny

[sick lantern]

I'm disappointed in NGN, using AI for his scripts and not fact checking it

[sudden mortar]

Do we have proof about that?

[torn shoal]

better to just ask him

[sick lantern]

you can tell from how they're formatted and how they confidently propose entirely inaccurate information without a source
plus, he collab'd with someone who openly has an ai generated channel icon and thumbnails

[frosty bluff]

Could you give some examples of the inaccurate information?

[sick lantern]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGasXxpRVSA

majority of claims in this video
“the dark zone is an experiment intentionally left sealed instead of recovered” for example

vague non specific ramblings about the division bringing fights to civilians

something about making executions instead of arrests which isn’t true (The Outcasts’ Strategist, multiple times in the Crossroads trilogy)

[sick lantern]

said AI user is credited as having helped write the script, not exactly a stretch of the imagination that they used AI for text as well

i’m not trying to stir stuff up or make anyone dislike NGN, i’m just putting it out there and expressing my dissatisfaction

[surreal hearth]

I just realized, and my brain didn’t respond on time. That Anderson recklessly was promoting someone who’s already a colonel. Like why?!

It feels like Anderson was desperate to find people who can trust and he has been on a paranoia spree to the point where he recklessly butchered the promotion rank chain like Jesus Christ

[torn shoal]

tbh using it for a thumbnail is already bad enough

[ember temple]

Or how bout nobody slander ngn and his friends and just talk to him about it

[marble dawn]

yeah as much as I've liked NGN's content in the past I couldn't finish this one

[kind hare]

Maybe I should start using AI, since that's all people seem to assume these days. Would have saved me spending 5 hours researching and writing a script.
However, there IS another solution. Don't watch.

[potent prairie]

Don't watch? But then they'd miss out on Adele4000's amazing singing!

[ashen jungle]

where is AI credited as having helped write the script? That's a pretty damming claim.

[kind hare]

That's alright, I've been accused of being AI for 8 years now, this is nothing new.

[ashen jungle]

Of all the content creators out there, I'd suspect NGN of using it the least.

[glad spruce]

My apologies, NGN. I meant no offense

[sick lantern]

that's not what i said

[ashen jungle]

?

[sick lantern]

ok that's kinda what i said, but not in the message you replied to, apologies

[ashen jungle]

I'm not the one you need to apologise to.

claiming someone who is well known for their research has used AI to write for them is pretty insulting.

[sick lantern]

@potent prairie is credited for helping with the script and as evident by the channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtp1X1jM_DdHtZsIh2On6ug and Discord profile, is someone who's willing to use AI in their content stream

[ashen jungle]

So your evidence that NGN used AI to write for them, is that someone who assisted them has used it in the past before.

That kinda response is why I keep the AI in my name instead of changing it.

[potent prairie]

I use it for thumbnails yes but everything else is human made. I don't understand what you're getting at?

[sick lantern]

and in that the video I referenced is full of dubious information that isn't canonically supported to my knowledge, and the script of the video is paced and written in such a way that feels like it was generated by AI
the whole "that isn't (thing), it's (thing)" sentence structure that appears in the video was even a meme on the chatgpt subreddit for how commonly it appears

[sick lantern]

I don't know why this has turned in to a whole thing, I tried to be low key

[potent prairie]

Respectfully no you didn't, you just tagged me and suggested the script was AI written as evidenced by my channel. The facts are that there is no AI in his video, the script or his channel, so again I don't understand the issue?

[ashen jungle]

I think the issue here is that webkinz didn't expect actual pushback on this.

[potent prairie]

Yeah that's true

And don't get me wrong I'm not looking for an argument but I will defend myself and my friends if I'm going to be directly tagged in something where facts are absent

[ashen jungle]

You are well within your right to defend yourself, especially from claims like you are faking your work.

I just ask that everyone makes sure this stays on the level and doesn't devolve. No one looks good at that point.

@sick lantern I'm giving you the option here to back out of this. Just apologise to those involved, and we'll call it a day.

[mint trellis]

Do I need to start singing? To lighten the mood? 🫣

Although, I am in fact ai. Siri is my sister

[ashen jungle]

I can confirm that, no real human is that good at Dark Hours.

[mint trellis]

Haha @ashen jungle you are too kind. But you must have been watching someone else haha

[eternal wing]

I really want to get a copy of NY Collapse to read it and stuff but it costs like a 100 dollars now on Amazon😭

[torn shoal]

well im glad no ai was used at least

as i said, should have asked ngn directly to find out

[ashen jungle]

@eternal wing Keep an eye out for ebooks when they're available, and/or your local library might have a copy.

Although do be careful of knockoffs, there's a very prominent "the ultimate guide to divistion 2" on the front page.

[cosmic niche]

At what point in the game did mayhem drop? I cannt place it

[frosty bluff]

Last season

[glad spruce]

Y7S2

[wicked gorge]

Aint there one more hyena council member?

[sick lantern]

Zodiac

[wicked gorge]

Thank you good sir

[glad spruce]

Assuming he didn't die from OD, yet

[wicked gorge]

It’s the division, he’s definitely been hitting the weights and eating/ drinking properly until he gets his season, then he’ll of

[glad spruce]

In fairness, when you're (as in Harlan Lloyd) in prison for months, you pretty much have nothing to do except doing gym stuff.

[torn shoal]

i dont see the last hyena chief doingn anything much tbh, idk why they didnt kill him with the rest last season

clearly they wanted all factions leaders dead now and open a new chapter

[eternal wing]

Do we know the fate of the D1 Darkzone in D2? I assume that eventually the chaos and anarchy of the DZ would subside as time passed

[sick lantern]

iirc in Broken Dawn the JTF are increasing their DZ operations, having the resources due to the events of div 1 and time passed, something like that
but then the JTF collapses by wony, so

[eternal wing]

so did the state of Central Manhattan (the area we operate in during D1) get even worse despite everything we did?

[sick lantern]

yea, sorta
they abandoned the BoO with zero explanation, only mentioned information is one of the oldddd manhunt rogue agents has one little bit of flavour text about bombing the generators, other than that "they just left" and relocated to city hall cus reasons
and the rikers were able to attack that settlement that was made after div 1, this is when faye's sister died

[eternal wing]

Bro NYC lore in WONY is lowkey depressing

"Everything is still cooked and in some aspects it has gotten worse" I wonder how our D1 agents are doing

[ashen jungle]

I believe that we are a mix of canonically the same person, and it's entirely grey-canon, so you get to pick.

I like to think my div1 Agent is in a cabin right now.

[eternal wing]

From some of the intel in D1, it seems that some areas of the United States actually managed to stabilize and maintain quarantine. I've specifically heard New Jersey being mentioned as stable and still under the control of the JTF. Is this disproved or backed up by any lore in D2 and/or the other Division Universe material?

[eternal wing]

Also, I've noticed that (in the D1) Rogue Agents ECHO 5 (United Nations) has a description that doesn't match what actually occurs in the ECHO (in-person when you activate it in the UN Building)

[split turtle]

Who are sending supply drops into DC in Div 2? Are there like organizations, cities, or countries that are still doing well, better than DC/NY.

[frosty bluff]

For anything outside the US, there are comms that discuss how other countries/regions are handling the Green Poison

However, those occur within the first few weeks of the outbreak. Anything afterword might be in the books or the nations have gone radio silent

[sick lantern]

well, time progresses between the games, so implicitly the virus broke through the quarantines that were holding during div 1

[sick lantern]

there’s an implied amount of military still active by the presence of the supply drops, and this one random military remnant in like Maryland or whatever seen early on in The Division: Recruited
that’s not counting the Molossi

[sick lantern]

I would say that Div 1 ended with the implication that the country would be fine long term, if not for Keener escaping the quarantine with the means to start an entirely new outbreak
and then the chosen direction for the narrative changed

[torn shoal]

the outbreak already spread outside the us before quanratine

keener didnt create it, he only wanted to harness more power/money/leverage from it

but the world crumbling entirely made him realize he couldnt do that, there was a new world to build instead

[glad spruce]

I doubt we'll get new lore/story stuff for the Anniversary event.

But I wouldn't mind a build-up for Year 8

[ionic halo]

Maybe something similar to what destiny had for before destiny 2 moments of triumph type event

Where stuff gets mini overhaul with new loot to try and get and what not

[torn shoal]

if we get a "win" (like bt and other factions gone) the game would change drastically

[ashen jungle]

The end of this season effectively told us that the ||base game 3 factions are dealt with, barring any unexpected issue.||
I'd put money down that BT are going to be recurring in div3, unless we get some way to resolve them entirely with what time we have left in 2.

[frosty bluff]

||Most likely Black Tusk and their local allies from wherever we attack them at||

[ashen jungle]

Michigan is a base of theirs, so I wouldn't be shocked.
but I doubt that'll be the location for 3, not really impressive sounding enough from a global perspective.

[torn shoal]

factions leaders are dealt with, not the factions themselves still are an issue tho less of it, and bt still strong af, so I dont see the game with them factions ending any time soon

cleaners and rikers were suposedly beaten after ferro and barret died, it's def not the case

[ashen jungle]

Nah, the end of the manhunt makes it pretty clear that the game intends to move on from them as major threats going forward, and if we get another "ferro did nothing it was all connley", I am going to be very unhappy.

[sick lantern]

@glad pine from The World of The Division page 31: “The SHD is a decentralised, autonomous entity endowed with executive powers and rules of engagement unfettered by legal constraints.”

We see multiple times throughout the franchise that Division agents are free to resolve situations non-violently if they can:
In the Noble Team side mission in The Division 1, one of the agents uses the powers granted to her by Directive 51 to threaten a rioter with death, for the sake of getting him to stop causing trouble.
In The Division 2, when Harlan Lloyd is captured.
In The Division: Compromised, when Maira Kanhai captures a rogue agent and turns him in to the leader of the Molossi to get the Molossi to stand down.
In The Division: Hunted, when Maira gives a Black Tusk pilot the opportunity to surrender and comply with her demands.
And also in Hunted when Maira allows Keith/Flex to surrender to the Molossi.

It’s not head canon in the slightest.

[torn shoal]

yeah but if ingame we fight the same people in the open world and dz then it didnt change much

[glad pine]

Okay, sure. Theoretically in lore, Division agents have the discretion to take non-lethal action; I'll give you that. But that's not what happens 99% of the time, at least in the Division 2 where non-lethal interventions are hardly ever discussed. So, in practice it functions as a hit squad.

I actually thought of more great quotes: "She'll keep him alive she's not stupid; just find that Hyena piece of sh*t and waste her" - Agent Kelso ha ha. "That was Wade. Would have been nice to 'bag' him but he's not our priority" - Manny. Honestly, Kelso cracks me up with how bloodthirsty she is.

[sick lantern]

it's not theory, it literally happens multiple times

it doesn't happen 99% of the time because it's an armed conflict against hostile beligerents who want you dead but even in game with Schaeffer and The Strategist as people who were taken prisoner

[glad spruce]

Schaeffer is probably thanking his adorable helmet kept him from keeling over despite the TBI he got after we kicked his ass

[frosty bluff]

Which reminds me

I don’t think Schaeffer’s helmet would’ve helped Anderson with that fall

[obsidian jay]

Ah well
the few times we DO try to settle things non lethally
somebody else just kills our target

Rip ||POTUS ||and ||Anderson ||I guess

[glad spruce]

May they forever rot in hell

[glad spruce]

Any new lore or story stuff in the anniversary event?

[sudden mortar]

No, no scout at all, the season really ended.

[glad spruce]

Next season is called "Rise Up"

[wicked gorge]

We going to the park soon

[tepid ibex]

cant believe we're really abt to get some zombies in the Division. people always use to fantasize about them being in TD1

[wicked gorge]

We arent

[weary orbit]

Congratulations for the "Realism mode" i love it and i waited that since 10 years @next vine 2, i can't wait for the "Survivors mode" 🤩

[vernal schooner]

So we are getting a d3?

[ashen jungle]

It's in development, yeah.

[vernal schooner]

W

Hopefully it’s as good or better than d1

[slate plank]

When did they say that?

[ashen jungle]

A while back during a stream, and then again later on in another stream.
this is a known thing here.

[torn shoal]

i dropped a skin named "keener was right" i think hawkster is working at massive now

[glad spruce]

Lol, I wish

[ember vector]

I sincerely hope zombies will never be added to the franchise. We got the closest we could get with the Hyena Rushers and the Reanimated GE but it has become very cliche to add zombie mode to every survival game. It's been overdone. Let's strive for realism for once (then again, my opinion)!

[late void]

Yannick shot down the zombie suggestion in the livestream, 'Don't worry we're still a Tom Clancy IP'

[frosty bluff]

^

They were just having Pre-Death Twitches

We’d know they’re a zombie if they either reveal a zombie or they get up

[tepid ibex]

Completely subverts what we think when we see a bloodied hand twitching, before the SHD watch turns off then.

[ashen jungle]

Not really, it just looks like someone's dying, and then dies.

[tepid ibex]

When you're trying to provide a teaser for what's to come, showing a dying agent is nothing new for us lol. With all the collaborations they've done, I wouldn't have been surprised if a RE zombie mode would have been a limited time mode like Realism. Oh well, maybe it'll still subvert whatever expectations the community has.

[torn shoal]

i mean they also said survivors isnt survival from div 1 and new trailer said its survival from div 1 so

obv zombies arent in order but idk what to trust now

[ashen jungle]

The words "no zombies" are quite clear,

[frosty bluff]

Outcast Tank dressed up as Mr X:

[ashen jungle]

Let's get back to the lore talk now though.

[torn shoal]

I wonder if it will affect the lore tho, since the timeline will be différent

[storm wolf]

what is the story of emeline shaw?

her daughter etc?

[glad spruce]

Yes. Emeline became the Outcasts leader after her daughter died from the Green Poison while they were quarantined in Roosevelt Island with the others.

By then, she became hellbent on taking vengeance against everyone in DC. And I mean, everyone.

Despite escaping our wrath when we devastated their stronghold, Emeline made her final stand in Manning National Zoo, where we put her out of her misery.

[storm wolf]

i remember there was an audio in the court where she was accusing a man or sth like that?

[glad spruce]

She was a prosecutor prior to the Green Poison.

Basically, that audio log involved her prosecuting a man for killing his ex-girlfriend

[halcyon patio]

So like.. are Aaron Keener’s rogues actually good guys now? Because if so, what was their goal during WONY?

[frosty bluff]

Specifically just Keener and Theo

[halcyon patio]

They were the good guys? Then why did they absolutely bomb the JTF in City Hall? I’ve been out of touch with the lore so I’m confused after playing Brooklyn

[frosty bluff]

Yeah the reasoning for the contentious in the community...

During Crossroads, Comm [ Castle ], Theo explains to Lau that they had to gas City Hall & Castle Clinton because they were housing undercover Hunter/Cal Loyalists

The contentious part is the conflict in Keener's story before and during the events of WoNY, to after the events of WoNY (i.e. all events leading up to today)

[halcyon patio]

Yeah I’m confused on keener’s goal now. He wanted to take down SHD and the corrupt government iirc back in D1.

His character changed in D2 where he just wanted to.. bomb everyone i guess? But Brooklyn switched him again.

Turns out he and Theo are actually decent people now. At least that’s what it seems like in Brooklyn. What with them being part of (and leading?) a functioning community

[frosty bluff]

There are many theories as to his change of position to "fix" the story. For example, once he got out of the debacle in midtown and got some rest, he thought things out --although still going about recruiting rogue agents to his team.

[frosty bluff]

A theory I thought up just now was:```

• Sometime after going rogue, he found himself facing a hunter sent after him. Suspicious of who this uniquely-equipped agent was, he tries to gather information on the hunters while also satisfying his goal of fighting back against the leadership of the JTF/US Government for abandoning him and those in the DZ.

• After the events of West Side Pier, he makes his way to Washington D.C. to find more information on the Division and the Hunters, where he could've found information on the Black Tusk, their connection with Calvin McManus, the ties between Black Tusk & the Hunters, and possibly information of McManus's "ignorance" of Amherst.

• Now determined to teardown this shadow alliance, Keener makes his way back to NYC to rally with his band of rogue agents in search of Hunter/Black Tusk affiliates. However, knowing BT/Hunters have greater tech and manpower than they do, the best option was to undermine their operations and get inside intel.

• All events afterwards coincide with WoNY and Manhunt/Descent comms

[torn shoal]

keener and theo were retconned, and all their previous actions were changed as "targeting Hunters and pretending to be bad to not arouse suspicion" so yeah it's complicated cause we start from them killing civilians for fun then targeting Hunter and making civilians casualties to the actually all of them were Black tusk moles

so yeah it's a mess but now they good and with us

[ashen jungle]

Re-running the WONY campaign in Realism Mode is really bringing a reminder of just how silly retconning their actions was.

[torn shoal]

I mean retconning wony is fine the dlc felt rushed but everything before that feels weird like he didnt litterally executed agents refusing to follow him in that gymnasium or shooting down 2nd wave plane

[ashen jungle]

Hard disagree on it feeling rushed, but that has nothing to do with lore chat anyway.

[torn shoal]

well the last part on liberty Islande felt weird, a last stand to bomb the city doesnt match what we were shown about him

hope we get more of keener next season I like his voice and we might get more of Anna too

[ashen jungle]

I'm fine with jumping back to Midsomer Murders if I want to hear Keener's voice again, but jokes aside, I think it's safe to say that the next Season is going to be more focused on fighting back, whether us or BT, who knows, I suspect us though.

[torn shoal]

I think the same too, but with new dlc and incursion maybe we get both in the future

iirc it's a barrage so I guess it's bt involved the other factions wouldnt really care about that

bt could use that place à New fortress to place weapons

[obsidian jay]

Still can't get over the fact he nearly blew my legs off in div1.

[torn shoal]

well, you live, you learn, and you walk (mostly)

[ashen jungle]

Or if you're Lau, you stay crippled for months without healing.

there used to be a running joke back in div1 times, where Rogues would break into the BoO and re-break her leg every night.

[frosty spoke]

Have it crossed your mind that it might be a bait?

[torn shoal]

bait used to be believable

for réal tho, what's the point of this in lore, he could achevé the same not doing this and staying in the dark instead

also the rogue network spreading eclipse virus, what's the point here ? targeting agents too

[eternal wing]

I'm trying to cross-reference Noble Squad echoes with Division Shield audio recordings, apparently it seems Doug Sutton was doing something before the entire Noble Squad situation unfolded?

[glad spruce]

Yeah, he was somewhere else when his squad got ambushed by the Rikers

[sick lantern]

is he in more than one of the Shield audios? i remember the one where he dies

[autumn island]

Are the ETF canon? Like, are they the best div agents in lore from other div agents?

[ashen jungle]

There's no requirement to be the best person to be a part of the ETF.

[halcyon patio]

It makes me wonder how bad the situation really was in DC before we arrived? You can see so many dead agents out in the overworld

I know we were like “one of the last few surviving agents” but you’d think DC would’ve been better protected by SHD

[autumn island]

Well, it doesnt help that most of the country got attacked, and agents are cherry picked. They arent recruited in mass numbers, maybe a dozen every month, and they're running low on ammo, gear, and help. One agent can't go against 4 dozen hostiles

-# unless your the sheriff aka us but thats besides the point

The Division agents are a some what short term solution, keep the peace and order, and kill the hostiles behind the chemical attack. But due to it being dragged on for months, they're getting overwhelmed

Too much problems, in such little time.

[eternal wing]

Yeah, I think he's featured in the most Shield audios

[sick lantern]

guess i forgot
anyway in the first noble squad echo you can see him leaving the group to go do some recon

[proud flax]

Yup

And he was in a shield audio you can hear his last words talking to a jtf member

[sudden mortar]

Bro, one of the anniversary weapon skins is called Keener Was Right

[turbid trench]

is it green?

[glad spruce]

It's intentional.

You get weapons by completing the missions and projects in realism mode.

Also, this is the lore channel

[glad spruce]

Now I remember Lyfe saying I've joined the writing team because of that skin lol

[torn shoal]

you cant prove me wrong, js

thats my new unhinged conspiracy theory

[heavy summit]

So could someone tell me what happened to JTF in Brooklyn?

[frosty bluff]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I assume they collapsed or were moved out before the storm hit. If they collapsed, then they most likely spread out with some most likely joining the bridge community

[obsidian jay]

I ate them

[torn shoal]

replaced by peacekeepers

[ashen jungle]

@night bolt You're actually looking for #1380126780152614944, this channel is just to discuss the franchise lore.
I'll give you a bit to copy it over there before I delete this one. Let me know when it's done.

[night bolt]

Oops, my bad. You can delete it. Sorry again.

[night bolt]

Hi, thanks for the guidance. I have removed the post.

[sour sinew]

Hello! I took a break from the division but I’m coming back now. I last left off after finishing season 1 of warlords of New York. I love the story of this franchise, is there a good channel I can watch to catch up on all the lore leading up to the current season?

[ashen jungle]

Actually yes! "NGN" over on Youtube is a great place to go find some recap stuff.

welcome back, Agent

[torn shoal]

ngn is the goat indeed

[hexed garden]

Lowkey I've been thinking, i know its far fetched but it'd be REALLY cool if the lmb were like, the main faction for the central park dlc. I've always wondered what division 2's take on the LMB would be. I know Colonel bliss is dead and thats what caused the lmb to kind of disintegrate but still in my opinion its a cool idea 🫡

[torn shoal]

lmb remnants joined black tusk, and are the white tusk group

so you can already fight them on legendaries

[hexed garden]

Right i forgot about that, should've figured since they're white tusk

Well who knows then, maybe the faction is the new one coming in resurgence, just a console/pc version of them

[obsidian jay]

Honestly I can't really see ALL of the lmb joining up with the black tusk
And they haven't especially with the WONY trailer implications with the jtf geared LMB looking fellas

I think the LMB that joined the white tusk are the same ones in the legendary variants of the div1 missions instead of the LMB in mass

I also can't see a lot of LMB sticking around the black tusk since the LMB were known for fighting til the y'know what especially with Bliss's final fight
And the black tusk are very unprofessional at times despite everything

I'd really love to see actual LMB kitted out with stolen Black Tusk gear instead of the reskinned basic dudes

I like to cope like this for my favorite div1 faction it makes me hopeful for anything

Alot of this is just my assumptions and ramblings I obviously don't know the whole lore of the division

[shy comet]

I think the new mobile game faction and LMB remnants would be super cool for the central park dlc

I'm not sure if this is the place for this but it would be cool if we could have animal companions that are kitted-out with SHD tech in the next DLC (super far fetched but who knows)

[tepid ibex]

Daring to have hope of any possibility of the LMB returning is a bold position in this channel. Regulars are sure that not an ounce of the LMB exists anymore.

LMB kitted out with BT gear sounds pretty badass. Like some that had the opportunity to join BT ranks denied and instead chose to be loyal to Bliss' ideals. Interested to see how the Central Park (almost made that an acronym) DLC will pan out. As of right now I'm satisfied with the LMB bundle we've just got.

[young folio]

Help with dark hours other channels are dead has

[storm wolf]

What happened to liz rodriguez? Woman from the pentagon and darpa

[obsidian jay]

I just love the LMB way too much.

[torn shoal]

its a pmc that collapsed, so thoses guys will def join another pmc that welcomes them, its that or become a civilian and die in the pandemic

black tusk is def the choice most of them made

nothing in lmb is special compared to black tusk, lmb is just not as good, not as strong, not as influent, etc

litterally, lmb had like, 1 heli, and 1 apc, and list both of them instantly

at least black tusk has real stuff like razorback and real transports

[obsidian jay]

• aircraft carrier or whatever that giant ship was called in that one gamemode location
• prop vehicles
  they DID have multiple helicopters, the Rogue Agents in div1 get dropped down by one

I'm betting all of these are lost now but they DID have more than just that atleast early on
they also had similar tech to the Black Tusk like med stations if I recall correctly
might even have had some SHD tech if the rogues even bothered to give them anything when they were working together

[torn shoal]

nobody get air dropped in div 1, no aircraft carrier either

and there is no vehicules in div 1

[obsidian jay]

Unless my memory is failing me I do recall seeing LMB logos on some cars
and it was literally a fightable location in that one wave based gamemode

I think the helicopter was there to extract tchernenko in that one mission

and to assault us at the was it police academy?

[torn shoal]

its the apc i mentionned, the heli you're talking about is in div 2

ah u mean the consulate

[obsidian jay]

yeah let me go confirm that rq

[torn shoal]

yeah they had that heli, but its the same as the un boss

so they had 1 heli, 1 apc, thats it, not really a fighting force comparable to black tusk that has an army of thoses each

[obsidian jay]

yeah thats fair

(they do have other cars like humvees just not fightable ones)

[torn shoal]

everyone has humvee, its litterally the least expensive thing to get in the army

also not usable in that pandemic anyway so

[obsidian jay]

Doesn't really stop either side from using it anyway
still see them placed everywhere

[torn shoal]

a humvee in this state is like a death trap

even a placed machine gun is better cause u can place it correctly/move it/protect it

also most soldiers hate humvees

its a metal coffin

[obsidian jay]

Thats fair
can't say much on that end since I haven't even touched a wheel let alone military equipment

[torn shoal]

i havent either thank god lol i only look at feedback tehy get

[obsidian jay]

I know a guy whos a marine but he mostly just works on vehicles from what I've heard

should probably ask for his opinion on that

[frosty bluff]

Can’t really use a vehicle if you don’t fuel for it. Especially if its NYC and the cleaners taking a majority of the city’s fuel

[torn shoal]

black tusk has fuel, and from the looks of it, everyone has fuel for their heli, its not really the issue here, its that all roads are blocked everywhere

[frosty bluff]

-# My mind completely forgor about the convo and just focused on fuel

[frosty bluff]

Mhm

[obsidian jay]

update:
Checked the found footage thingymajigs in div1
they have ATLEAST 2 helicopters
not really an upgrade but you know

[tepid ibex]

Wdym no aircraft carrier? Pretty sure the same one @obsidian jay is talking about is in the Found Footage of the LMB forces gathering up shortly before it pans to them killing a Riker and JTF

https://youtu.be/bmeu9XvulC0?si=eIbdKkkCi0jTf26n

The fact the LMB had an aircraft carrier, or was in the vicinity of one which they could have taken possession of, was completely glossed over and almost retconned into just being a Resistance mission where ALL factions used it instead.

[tender jackal]

There are LMB marked humvees

[peak finch]

In the found footage the LMB have 2 helis and a aircraft carrier but they weren’t really in NYC at first for more than protecting rich people’s companies, probably why they didn’t have a lot of equipment

[sleek plover]

Damn I hate LMB

[sick lantern]

The aircraft carrier the LMB are at is just a floating museum, fyi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrepid_Museum

going by what’s seen in game they do have an amount of APCs, at least two Black Hawks and one other chopper, plus all the SAMs

[sick lantern]

in the context of IEDs in a way that doesn’t really seem prevalent in the division or at least new york
closest comparison would be rikers’ IEDs which are more of shrapnel based anti-personnel traps

[tepid ibex]

Alright alright, yeah they threw a lot of ppl off with the LMB posting up right beside it

Along with the SAMs, they also had the drones in the Falcon Lost Incursion

Surely they arrived on some ship tho since they were just "contracted to numerous classified black sites across Western Asia and North Africa," before having to come to NYC.

[torn shoal]

all factions beside true sons use ieds

the drones, the rc car, thoses are ieds

in div world they have magic armor so its fine but if you wanna go the "actually in real life" well its really bad then

[sick lantern]

except that i just specified that it’s not the same, the types of IEDs infamous for killing HMMWVs in Iraq and Afghanistan were much larger than the nail bombs and petrol bombs seen in game

you always seem to care a lot about what i have to say for someone who has me blocked

[torn shoal]

its a game, stuff is made to be like "yeah thats like that stuff irl", not being a 1:1 comparison

we shoot 250 bullets in someone's head and they done die, u might guess its not accurate

[sick lantern]

how is that relevant?

[sick lantern]

like i don’t even know what the argument is in this whole conversation, this is blatant lies as usual lmao, we see vehicles used by the JTF, Cleaners, LMB, Rikers and maybe even the rioters given the arms deal encounters

[torn shoal]

a car you cant drive is not a car is a metal stash at best

and a metal coffin at worst

[sick lantern]

but they drive cars.

[torn shoal]

"yeah we're a big military we got tons of cars"
"sow e can go attack this position ?"
"oh god no, its only for display, you dont touch the car, you dont drive the car, if you scratch the paint i will kill you also it has no fuel or maintenance anyway its probably dead"

"but for some reason we got 50 helis ready to go just to retrieve a pair of gloves or an empty bagpack in the most dangerous area of the city, the dz"

so yeah, maybe realism around vehicules isnt in order here

[tender jackal]

Or maybe it just isn't a mechanic in the game 😭

In FNV there's a lot of vehicles at Camp McCarran, implying that the NCR has working vehicles but you don't ever see them drive because you just so happen to never see it. The Sheriff/Agent just doesn't ever see those vehicles drive for the sake of not making animations and physics as well as keeping the environmental design of the game.

TLDR it's not about realism

[ashen jungle]

Also, the roads aren't clear and cars requires a metric-ton of space, and constant resources to maintain them.

and petrol gets worse over time too, so you need to use more and more fuel as time carries on, if you're using old stock

[sick lantern]

I don’t know why you keep mentioning realism when the point is that it literally, repeatedly, is depicted in game that wheeled vehicles are in use
there are JTF APCs at Rooftop Com Relay, Cleaners rubbish trucks at Hudson Refugee Camp, Broadway Emporium and Dragon’s Nest (besides, you know, the Dragon itself), Rikers vans at Queens Tunnel Camp that are responsible for a handful of Rikers spawning at the start of the mission, LMB vehicles outside the Russian Consulate and you can even see the tyre tracks leading to the consulate from a nearby side mission location

[ashen jungle]

Keep it chill, folks.

[true bloom]

is this the lore place?

[sick lantern]

yea

[true bloom]

what are the hunters? are they rogue agents or something?

[ashen jungle]

Think of them as an insurance policy if an Agent goes bad.

"Agents for an Agent" kinda thing.

[true bloom]

why they fighting us at the end of countdown then?

also wait so if they are an insurance policy for truly dangerous agents are they a government agency?

[ashen jungle]

Those are technically not counted as Hunters, but I like to think they're "hunters in training", they actually count(ed?) as Black Tusk Elite for challenges.

They're under the command of Calvin McManus, who is technically our boss, but he's working with the head of BT, it's a whole thing.

[true bloom]

ooh ok ok that makes more sense with the agents for agents thing yeah. They are like the hunters in guild payroll that fight other hunters that distrupt the ecosystem too much in monster hunter universe then

[ashen jungle]

Sort of, like a "who watches the watchmen" kinda thing.

[true bloom]

cool af ı can't lie. thanks for the explanation

while ı am here, is there a timeline for missions? I did base campaign and side quests (the quests scattered around the map too) and ı am currently on WoNY. There is like 30 manhunts though when do they fit in?

[sick lantern]

all the manhunts are after WoNY

base game -> white oak, pentagon, zoo and coney -> wony -> seasonal content

[scarlet carbon]

This is so difficult to figure out. As someone returning, havent played since warlords was released, had no idea of the chronology after the main storyline

[ashen jungle]

There's a youtube channel called "NGN", that has a great timeline video on the lore for div2. I highly recommend checking it out.

[sleek plover]

Manny should be president eventually

[shut raft]

Hey I just got back into the game after leaving when it was revealed that Keener was alive and Kelso turned rogue, can some1 fill me in on what happened since then?

[shy comet]

I'm confused too, but scroll up cause one of the server members suggested a channel that'll help people catch up on lore

[late void]

Check the pinned messages in #ask-td2-community, there's a guide

[outer nacelle]

Kelso went undercover as Rogue agent to find Keener from what I know. Keener was never confirmed dead in the first game

it was only confirmed Keener escaped New York and with his training of Division tactics he's NOT an easy foe to kill. He tricked every single person he worked with and left with his life

[ashen jungle]

Keener never died in div1 at all, he notably has an evil-guy monologue at the end.
I think you mean in the Warlords of New York DLC for div2.

[torn shoal]

he was confirmed dead in wony tho, they changed it, same for theo

[outer nacelle]

first game he wasn't confirmed dead

second game we learn his fate

[ashen jungle]

First game he wasn't hinted at to be dead.

He literally ends the first game going "I'm off to go sell diseases to the highest bidder, mwahahaha!".

Then he's Thanos-lite in WONY.
then he's a good guy all along after that.

[ashen jungle]

Never actually confirmed dead by us, Kelso just went "yup he ded", and I'm honestly not sure why we thought he was, he had no visible wounds AFAIK. Internal damage I guess.

[torn shoal]

didnt we get the "rogue agent deceased" from isac ?

also lot of enemies dont get visible wounds, it's not uncommon, especially considering the quality of thoses cutscenes back then was really atrocious

[ashen jungle]

Disagree that they were "atrocious", but I expect it to swing around to complaints about the game outside of the lore in this channel, so whatever.

The point is that we should've double-checked ourself, but we trusted Kelso.

[outer nacelle]

ISAC saying Rogue Agent deceased would be the final confirmation on Keener being dead. ISAC does scan for pulses in all targets and confirm them as dead

[frosty crag]

ISAC also spent the entire mission being fooled and hacked by Keener. It's easy to suspend your disbelief that ISAC was hacked one more time to make Keener seem dead in order to get away.

[outer nacelle]

true...

[little crown]

I mean, except for putting so many shotgun pellets into his body, over and over again. But I guess that could be spoofed. 😛

[ashen jungle]

Theo also lived through that, and Hornet is quite infamous afterwards for the same thing.
My Agent would've shot him a final time to be sure, or at least checked herself. I was actually RP'ing as that with the Rogues in the overworld for years before, so it took me out of it a bit to just go "oh nah not worth it this time", when it was The Rogue Agent.

[torn shoal]

I mean what's kelso motivation to lie in that moment ? to trust keener lately sure why not I can see that, but during wony ? doesnt make sense

[ashen jungle]

I never said we shouldn't have trusted her, just that we should have also checked ourself.

[torn shoal]

yeah but its a bit too much isnt it ?

like for sure every agent can be rogue in disguise but we cant do everything ourselves thats just a bit too much if we have to check pulse on every npc we kill we just cant do anything

if we go the route "we cant trust anything we didnt do ourselves" then what about summer ? we cant be sure he dead cause kelso did that, we cant be sure any manhunt target is dead cause hornet lived anyway so why not another one or better yet hornet is not dead again cause why not he has a gimmick now

if we cant be sure of anything then it becomes a bit pointless

and its worse if we factor the deepfakes in bfb

[ashen jungle]

I never said that we should doubt Kelso at that time, we had no reason to, and I'm fairly sure she wasn't even written as a 7x double Agent at that point.
All the deepfake nonsense was way later, going purely by the WONY events, our Agent would've definitely wanted to confirm that Keener was dead. It has nothing to do with not trusting Kelso, but even within that same story, we had a reason to doubt ISAC's reading on their vitals.

If Kelso was actually written as helping Keener at the time, just her putting her hand on our shoulder and going "it's over" when we tried to check would've been enough to set it up.

[torn shoal]

that's not really my point but idk how to say it clearly sadly

words are hard man

[torn shoal]

it's the same as normal mode there are guides on youtube also this is the lore channel

[turbid trench]

yes i know

did watch and a key is meant to drop for a large cleaner

killed him twice and no key dropped

[ashen jungle]

@turbid trench They're saying that this channel is for discussing the lore, not help with the game itself.
You're welcome to ask over in #ask-td2-community

[turbid trench]

sorry my bad

but it still does say division universe and i didnt think i was in the wrong place

will be moving thou

[ashen jungle]

The channel description refers to the extended universe, which just means the lore and the lore surrounding other stuff in the series, like the first game, the books, and any comics that may exist, etc.
It used to be called div-lore, but