division-universe

[ashen jungle]

This is the lore channel, let's leave fan-fics out of it.

[mortal flame]

[ashen jungle]

Once you get all the Named Enemies cards in Brooklyn, a final log unlocks, I won't spoil what it is, but it's 100% related to div1.

fun bit of lore for those who played it.

[zenith spruce]

any tips on finding them all?

[late void]

You can just travel to the pier side mission every 30m and there's a spawn nearby (to the east iirc). You'll get a random one you don't already have each time until you have all of them.

[signal oar]

I did the same thing, but I think they always spawn in order, though best worked for me to get there, kill the named enemy, go for a countdown and go back again, repeat until got them all 🙂

[zenith spruce]

:D

that in dc or brooklyn or ny? and i am curently on the dc map

[torn shoal]

brooklyn

[zenith spruce]

:( tryin the dc guys rn

[mortal flame]

There more Hunters in Brooklyn? Honestly not too surprised as they were rampant in the original Dark Zone across the way

[torn shoal]

there was only 1 hunter per agent in survival in div 1

[ember vector]

Yeah during the Amherst's Apartment and Unknown Signal missions. The DZ Supply Drops happen after the ECHO where Keener invites us to follow his lead.

Yeah I think we approach the one-year anniversary of the Green Poison in the game.

[ashen jungle]

@raw marsh This is the lore channel.

[torn shoal]

did he not like the cat ? a hateful crime for sure

[sweet crypt]

Do they know what happened to the last person that didn't like the cat?

[glad spruce]

No. He thought that rescuing and extracting the Manager was a waste of time, and we were better off killing him.

Mind you, we're currently in the season where we learn of The Manager's involvement with Natalya

[sweet crypt]

He was a non combatant, why would we kill him?

[glad spruce]

Probably because he used to work as Logistics Manager for Sokolov Concern/Black Tusk.

But in truth, having The Manager on our side will more likely help us in the long run.

[torn shoal]

lot of non combattant are killed in this game, directly or indirectly

[torn shoal]

i mean, he can be wrong, doesnt mean he loses respect, when he finally learn whats really important about eh manager he will prob come around

people holding bad takes dont get or lose my respect, only people that change their world view or not when confronted with new facts

if you're capable or changing your mind when presented with facts, thats respectable

not everyone can be right all the time, but everyone can change

[sweet crypt]

Yes, but at what point previously did the agent directly kill one?

The closet I can think of was the first attempt to kill Emeline Shaw.

[torn shoal]

the mole was killed by kelso while he was unarmed and very easy target to capture

[sweet crypt]

Kelso is not The Agent.

[torn shoal]

there is no "the agent", the story isnt completed by only 1 agent

we also killed a lot of people that just wanted to leave ny

[sweet crypt]

Yes there are other characters, we do not control those characters. We do control The Agent, who was the character who captured the Manager.

[torn shoal]

she is still division

also u do not control really your agent

you are forced to do the mission

[sweet crypt]

You could always not do the mission.

[torn shoal]

mission is done by you in lore

[sweet crypt]

I know, I'm just being dumb.

Based on what we have seen of the Agent, why would that character directly kill the manager?

Instead of capture

[torn shoal]

i didnt say we should

im just saying, it happenned, there is precedent

[sweet crypt]

Ok, we are talking about two different things then.

[torn shoal]

we had no reason to kill the doc, but kelso did, instead of capturing and interrogating himu

she had no reason to shoot him

[sweet crypt]

We are not Kelso.

[torn shoal]

again, u dont need your agent to be the one killing the manager

[sweet crypt]

I don't understand your point. I don't think we are talking in the same direction.

[mortal flame]

can we like to disagree, this conversation ain’t going nowhere lol

and anyway, War, war never changes…..

[glad spruce]

Yeah. And besides, Joshua Summers wasn't truly a doctor. He was an actor and we got played by his deception until Kelso dealt with him.

[mortal flame]

I find hilarious he lasted that long…. like “I’m giving the Schaffer (some medical jargon) and I think he’ll be fine, any other questions ask the other doctors” lol

question, does the main character of the book trilogy ever get mentioned in the game? as of the ending of the final book, I just want to know where this trilogy slots into the Division Timeline

[glad spruce]

Maira? She got mentioned a few times back in the comms from Y5S1 and Y5S2

The first book take place around September to October

[mortal flame]

So the books are set before or after the main game of Div 2 then? or concurrent…

[glad spruce]

Recruited took place around September to October. Compromised and Hunted take place a few months after the current Division 2 timeline.

April to May for Compromised, June to August for Hunted.

[sick lantern]

good question, go eff urself (thats a joke not an insult)
the chronology is scuffed

^

[glad spruce]

I did ask Lauren Stone about the timeline, and she was more than happy to answer.

So I'll take her word for it.

[sick lantern]

most people would include said answer in such a statement

[glad spruce]

Yeah, and most people in the community are a-holes with brain-rot psychosis.

[sick lantern]

so are you gonna tell us what she said or

[mortal flame]

Well, this escalated quickly

[sick lantern]

average Hawkster interaction

[glad spruce]

This what Lauren answered on Twitter DMs when I asked her back in July.

It's the spring and summer the next year
April if memory serves
And july/August with the flashbacks in may```

```I don't think its a spoiler at this point to say the dc agents have been labeled rogue
And they are the ones who know about the hunters. This wouldn't necessarily be broader division knowledge as they report to cal
Think about how maira talks about nat and what she knows of her versus our perception of her
And the rogues that come to help at the end of hunted
Jul 8, 2025, 9:59 PM```

[mortal flame]

I miss Gold the Rogue agent (RIP in the chat)trying to hit a fully kitted Hunter with a wooden chair

that’s a fanart commission/idea right there lol

[sick lantern]

so if the events of Recruited have now been moved back to the future, that would contradict the events in game treating them as if they had already happened

[glad spruce]

She was referring to the events of Compromised and Hunted

It's not rocket science to believe that Recruited happened back in September to October.

[mortal flame]

spoilers ||I mean does main game actually say anything about the Cores being under attack by Black Tusk? If so, we can narrow down when the books technically fit in||

[glad spruce]

One of Kelso's notes in Y5S3 had her reference the ||attack on Kansas Core, which happened at the final chapters of Recruited.||

[mortal flame]

So there we go… Y5S3

oh wait… that’s just Recruited ughh

[glad spruce]

Yeah, I was explicit in my post lol

[sick lantern]

except Recruited says at the start of the book it's been at least a year since the outbreak started, which isn't possible if the events of Recruited are also past tense to the current events of Div 2

[mortal flame]

Too bad they didn’t bring back that actress to voice the agent in the Brooklyn dlc

that book series though is the first trilogy I’ve actually fully read in a long time…..

[glad spruce]

Are you sure? Because I'm hundred percent sure that statement sounded like conjecture, not fact.

I could say, hey this week went by as a week, but it can feel like a year had passed

[mortal flame]

most of the country in game doesn’t have stable electricity…. smartphones/watches for that matter and even if they do, probably controlled by some faction

[sick lantern]

Chapter 1, Page 13, Line 19
"It had been more than a year since that day at the recruitment office."

"that day" being at some point when DC began to break down, placing it at a fair amount of weeks/months after Div 1

[glad spruce]

I'm sure

But considering we're in post-outbteak, I'm sure there are people who think a year has passed since the virus broke out, even though we're currently on November lol

[sick lantern]

that actually is conjecture, compared to her sounding very certain

potentially true but not part of the text or implied by the subtext

[mortal flame]

[sick lantern]

Maira is deeply traumatised by those events, given that she still dreams about them, as well as the loss of her brother, that plus her duties as chief of security at Athena tells me she probably keeps a fairly solid grip on the passage of time rather than being able to let go of it

[glad spruce]

Yeah, well, I reject her reality and still believe in September-October being Recruited's timeline

[mortal flame]

This is getting philosophical

my reality is not your reality…. PTSD…….

Anyway… thanks for the clear up on the books’ timeline….. I’ll just…. Get back into those lore vids lol

[glad spruce]

In hindsight, I was too harsh on NGN.

Deep apologies, buddy.

[mortal flame]

huh? You were being harsh to NGN??? He’s like our community loremaster lol

[glad spruce]

Yeah, I said that I was almost losing respect of him because of his opinion of The Manager during his latest video.

Which was hurtful, nonetheless.

[ashen jungle]

That would track with Manny's thinking, since Manny was weirdly insistent on us destroying that BT gear during the Manhunt, even though we could've absolutely used it.

"hey agent, this massive stash of guns, set it on fire".

[glad spruce]

Maybe. But, given those are Sokolov Concern crates, I'd bet they had failsafes in case any of their enemies tried to steal them, so why bother taking them?

[ashen jungle]

Because they're a massive stash of weapons, and a lack of resources in general is becoming something of a plpt-point.

And every thing we have, is something that she has to replace. So we really should be looting the BT gear from locations our Agents storm through.

This has been something of an on-going issue since launch through, so not a hugely bigger deal now.

[glad spruce]

I think taking down Diamond is more important than stealing a bunch of Black Tusk crates.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

[late void]

Not sure how the two are mutually exclusive though

[torn shoal]

yeah i think the first is a consequence of the 2nd

if she got firepower she can defend diamond, if she doesnt she cant

also taking down her ai doesnt her troops to shoot guns

[glad spruce]

Because Sokolov Concern is supplying more than Black Tusk.

So, if we really need to cripple the PMC's logistics, we need to decimate any factories and supply chains that Black Tusk have control of.

Besides, destroying those SC crates was a nice middle-finger to Black Tusk.

[torn shoal]

but the guns, they arent facotries, thats the point, thats the product, factories are still fine

[glad spruce]

I. Still. Enjoyed. Destroying. Those. Crates.

Do you understand?

[torn shoal]

and, again, nobody is telling you that you shouldnt enjoy it

we saying, it doesnt make sense in lore, thats it

i know you're invested in the story but your emotions are clearly clouding your judgement here

you can enjoy the story while still acknowledging the flaws

[glad spruce]

The Pact Manhunt, Comm 5, Networks.

||After the events that transpired in the Recruiter Manhunt, Natalya Sokolova informs The Manager that no radios should be used for communication from hereon, opting for landline as communication instead. When asked by the Manager over concerns of wiretaps, Sokolova assures him she has the former NSA analysts working for Black Tusk doing her job to secure working on securing landlines communications to prevent ISAC from intercepting.||

||The Manager mentioned the rumors about Claire Ortiz building a backdoor from SHD to DIAMOND. Sokolova tells him it's not so much a backdoor as it is more like the same door. To use a metaphor, she asked Claire for a bunker, and she sold her the same studio apartment she sold to Calvin McManus.||

||The Manager would then give his input about the potential ramifications of the interconnected networks (SHD, DIAMOND, ANNA), so that everything their enemy knows, they could know, and vice versa. And if possible, they would also know if Cal knew about the networks being interconnected.||

||He apologizes for overstepping, though Sokolova assures him he was making a good point, and decided to go ask the Analyst if she could brush up some of her old skill sets to handle the issue.||

[mortal flame]

finally Natalia trying to fix issues instead of throwing her soldiers at us lol…

[glad spruce]

Technically, she's been doing that since the end of the Recruiter Manhunt

[glad spruce]

Nevertheless, I'm happy to know that ||former NSA Analyst ain't dead. Too bad she's working for the bad guys.||

[sinful mauve]

Guess the story right now is both sides are dealing their problems. Meanwhile we'll have to deal with True sons next season lol

[mortal flame]

Again? We destroyed their big cannon…. wiped out multiple leadership……

end of story, don’t depend on tech lol…. especially when everyone and your enemy is using the same operating system lol

[glad spruce]

There's still General Anderson

[mortal flame]

Mr. Anderson. He’s like a figure head at this point next to Natalia

[glad spruce]

Hey, without the door that Claire built, we wouldn't have been to do a lot of damage on Black Tusk in the first place.

Give her some credit xD

[mortal flame]

what about Miara from the book series? || she basically was able to disable division and black tusk tech ||

[glad spruce]

Maira? ||Yeah, she and her team are resting after they dealt with Rowan O'Shea, and ain't doing anything until April next year, timeline wise. Not to mention, poor Brenda had lost part of her leg due to a shotgun shot.||

[mortal flame]

Guess you haven’t read the third book of the series yet

You’re in for a surprise

[glad spruce]

sighs I am not going through this again.

Compromised and Hunted happen next year, in Division's timeline. End of story.

[mortal flame]

So about the timeline……

[tepid ibex]

wait, there's a timeline?

[glad spruce]

Yeah, and an in-game timeline menu that gives a date on when the previous Manhunt took place.

[ember vector]

And when I look at the dates, I can't help but think how fast events unfolded in just a few months, sometimes within the span of even a few days! Was Heartland supposed to take place next spring?

[glad spruce]

No idea, I never played the beta.

[ember vector]

Never played the beta too. Nevermind, I just looked up at the art cover and it's autumn. So maybe Heartland was supposed to take place alongside Brooklyn.

[glad spruce]

Most of my knowledge about Heartland, is that its setting, Silver Creek, was mentioned a few times as redacted a few times in Y6S1 Manhunt/Descent comms.

[slate cloak]

for context this was for a convo about how the Payday gang can survive the Arknights universe cuz of gameplay mechanics

I remember asking about something similar here with a similar answer

[glad spruce]

That's nice and all, but I don't see what this had to do with the narrative/lore

[ashen jungle]

Or the conversation at all.

It reads like a "goku can beat up optimus prime" kinda thing from 2004.

[mortal flame]

That was a thing in 2004?

[ashen jungle]

It was a thing in the 90's

source: i was there.

[mortal flame]

must have missed that lol

[sick lantern]

we’re necro’ing nearly four year old topics now

[torn shoal]

90s were the best

prob cause I was still young back then

[mortal flame]

Not exactly Canon, but what would happen if the Ghost Recon squads tried coming home from Breakpoint’s setting to the Division’s setting of NY and DC… and find Sam Fisher in DC just sneaking around as usual trying to find more Black Tusk operations to take down lol

[cold bramble]

That would be a cool crossover ain’t gonna lie

[torn shoal]

theyd prob die from green poison in the first place

[ashen jungle]

Just to confirm: the "ghosts" are not canon in the div franchise at all, div exists outside of the canon of other ubisoft games.

[torn shoal]

also kill squads sent across the world dont exactly do well at home

they already dont do well where they are sent lol

[ember vector]

If you had to sum up the entire lore of The Division franchise into a question, what would it be? 🙂

[glad spruce]

How do we stop a Giant?

[torn shoal]

not really

it would rather be "can u trust anyone"

[glad spruce]

We can trust people and the community.

Not institutions lol

[torn shoal]

not really

[obsidian jay]

I guess
How do we pursue our ideals in a crisis???

[torn shoal]

look rogues

[glad spruce]

This. This is the one

[torn shoal]

well not like this

[glad spruce]

Agree to disagree

[remote tree]

Watches lie

[torn shoal]

i mean, the world is in chambles

[ember vector]

How far do we have to go before we become the demons we were supposed to save the remains from?

[brave shard]

I agree with this statement...partly. Ghost Recon Wildlands had a series of Division audio files talking about ...... and with the last one found you got a Division ....... so sort of connected in the strangest of ways. I don't count the divsion cosmetics as connecting franchises. But having a whole series for audio files to collect for a reward is at the least something. But generally over all I agree they aren't connected.

[brave shard]

"In the wreckage of civilization, how will humanity react to survive?"

[torn shoal]

easter eggs arent canon, same as a lot of open world stuff, like hunters

they exist in canon, but we dont do puzzle to get them to show up and kill them

[ashen jungle]

It wasn't an opinion, it was a statement of fact.

Div is outside the canon of other games, it's how we can have things like Stalker, Payday, Siege, and even Resident Evil as ingame items.

[torn shoal]

at best, you can consider thoses games/series as existing in universe, as games, not much else

maybe someday we'll see birdie play r6 with colleagues and flame her ash dying first

[ashen jungle]

I like to see div2 as a sort of "portal", where other universes can interact with it, without being directly canon.

kinda like payday 2 and all its crossovers.

[brave shard]

Wasn't disagreeing with your statement. Just stating they put more of the Division material in then most of the crossovers which is just cosmetics.

[ashen jungle]

I have no idea what you just tried to say, but don't worry about it.

[torn shoal]

the words mason, what do they mean

[frosty spoke]

I still cringe hard at Kelso destroying Hyenas munition stockpile every time I do Grand Washington Hotel

[sick lantern]

they could at least put a voice line like “it’d be great if we could take this but we don’t have the manpower right now”

flimsy excuse by this point but an excuse nonetheless

like, there’s mortars at the theatre, BT rockets at the castle, but we don’t have anyone to heave some crates?

[glad spruce]

I still think it was a good decision on Kelso's part, since it killed a lot of Hyenas.

Also, I still don't see the benefit in stealing those Sokolov Concern crates.

[sick lantern]

having supplies is better than not having them

[torn shoal]

more weapons, but the story doesnt do a good job at telling that we are lacking in everything, since we just shoot our way through basicallyt everything

when you hear the story, the coms, the chatter in settlements, situation is dire, when you play, its like coming to a fist fight with nukes attached to your fists

so, not looking that much dire

but then again, u check what people are doing, how they feeling, and u know shit has hit the fan and we are just never coming back whole from this

division right now is not a major faction in the civil war that we play, we are barely helping civilians here and there

but cause we are the hero in the story, we can defeat impossible odds, and kill thousands of npc to get what we need

unlike some other shooter campaing, story does a bad job as showing us we are part of a bigger thing, titanfall 2 for example is great (again) at this, we do incredible stuff and surmount impossible odds, but we also see everyone around us do the same even dying for it cause situation is that much dire

[sick lantern]

terrible comparison lmao

[torn shoal]

in tf 2 campaing, we destroy a whole planet to save our home, but we barely made a scratch in the imc, and we know we gotta keep fighting them
in div 2 camping, basically every major faction in dc is in shambles, outcasts lost emeline and are in disarray, hyenas lost the council and bt support, true sons split up and had to ally with bt to remain a force, and bt lost everything in dc + ny

[glad spruce]

You will never convince me that stealing those crates is a good idea.

[torn shoal]

how would it be a bad idea tho ? more weapon for us = good

[glad spruce]

Catharsis.

[torn shoal]

catharsis is good when it doesnt put your future in jeopardy

thats why u dont take out anger and frustration on stuff you rely to survive

thats why people that can handle frustration hit a wall or a table, not their screen (if they got half a brain)

or better yet, take out your frustration on bt

"im mad so u all gonna die" type shit and be the hero

its cliché but it works

there is a reason u send people to fight a place instead of just bombing it, its to salvage as much as possible

for example in dark hour, we wanna take the airport back mostly intact, but we do know we used artillery shells to weaken them first anyway (it got intercepted, but the point still stand)

if you just decide to fk it all up on a whim, you aint fit to command, and manny showed us he is barely even fit to stay alive in this world, he stupid af

now u can justifiy why manny is in command and stupid, but div 2 doesnt, he just exist there and nobody question his leadership while casualties numbers are ramping up

plenty of people are stupid and in command, but there is a reason they are still there, cause otherwise someone else would take their place

[patent narwhal]

I just don't like it because it's written as a heh arent we soooooooo cool and badass agents 😏 way for manny telling you to destroy them

like 3 crates means nothing to the BT when they have probably warehouses of crates so I don't think 3 crates are gonna disrupt a supply chain at all when we're already disrupting their supply chain by taking their supply manager ????

rule of cool doesn't really work when its just some otherwise meaningless crates that would have left the mission the exact same regardless if they were there or not

[glad spruce]

Really? It felt more like "We don't have time to deal with this crap, so let's just blow them crates"

[patent narwhal]

we can just send in people after the fact

it's not that far from the campus

if anything it wastes our time even more to even think about them and waste ammo on them

we'd be there for weeks if not months at tidal basin if we bothered to destroy every crate they have there

[ashen jungle]

It's funny how much a conversation in here can loop around on itself.

Just to save us all some times:
People who think that Manny was right in destroying the crates; what tactical justification do you accept is canon?

[zenith spruce]

this might be a hot take but i don't like manny

[ashen jungle]

Any particular reason, or just not a fan of Thomas the Tank Engine?

(yes I could've gone for something more video-gamey, but this was funnier)

[patent narwhal]

I don't like him as of late. I don't think he's really had much of a character to begin with, but as of late it really feels like he's undergoing character assassination nothing he does makes any sense for who he is and the time the story is taking place

I have the same problem with a lot of Hoskins writing in BFB because when the most laid out thing happens for the most obvious of reasons. They're just written to be super shocked about it when as a player, it's kinda just like yeah? that's bound to happen from that?

manny gets told heres how & why they're listening in only to be shocked that BT is listening in from where he's been told how & why
cleaners/rikers attack a place as they have done since div1 and will continue to do and hoskins just acts so surprised that they could ever do that when it's like yeah thats kinda their whole thing

[ashen jungle]

Let's avoid talking about writers in particular, I'm sure we all know that the writer rarely has final say on what they're writing in this kind of environment.

[patent narwhal]

I'm not talking about the specific writers I'm talking about the characters dialogue as a whole lately

[ashen jungle]

That comment was more general, I've seen a few people around (mostly not here, thankfully) who are starting to blame specific people if they dislike a choice in the plot.

[patent narwhal]

CERA clinic is horrible for this because how are you getting shocked at cleaners burning people alive at this point that's all they've ever had going for them the past like year or so

I feel like a lot of agents (the ones we interact with in game at least) should be pretty desensitized to stuff like burning people alive or suicide bombing people given that we've been in for all intents and purposes an active war zone for the past year with no rules to it

[ashen jungle]

See here's the thing: I'm the exact opposite with the Cera bit in BfB: I was wondering why it's not seen as more horrifying, hell, Theo didn't seem to care at all, basically went "ah it happens, idc".

It's not said directly, because this isn't div2's tone, but early on in the mission, they specifically mention that they can't move certain people, and then never really show those bodies, but it's implied that the people they couldn't move were at least some heavily pregnant/recent mothers. That it was at the start of the DLC, and the rest of the DLC wasn't just a rampage to wipe the cleaners out, still confuses me.

I still have no idea why we don't just do that. I mean I know why in the game, but story-wise.

We wiped out the entire command structure of the Hyenas, but not the faction that specifically burns children alive?

[patent narwhal]

I mean yeah it's utterly horrific but it's also been what like a year of dealing with the cleaners for agents like hoskins & theo I feel like you'd either hightail it outta there or get pretty numb to it and be like yeah it happens

[ashen jungle]

People the Cleaners know aren't infected too. There's actually a reference to it in BfB from when they tried to do that in div1, IDK if people caught that. How we took out the supply boat at the Refinery was how the Cleaners were going to murder that camp full of people.

[patent narwhal]

even kelso in WoNY seems pretty numb to them even if she's saying stuff like I heard horrific stuff about them back in DC at the start

[ashen jungle]

An Agent makes sense, especially one who'se been through as much as Kelso has.
when I'm wondering about is why the people of the various good-guy factions aren't demanding we do it. Hell, the survivors of the OG Castle don't ask us to wipe the True Sons out, and they did all the war crimes on a speedrun.

[patent narwhal]

that I really don't get with how random friendly NPC encounters talk about the enemy factions

they're calling for the death of enemy factions more harshly than I think the enemy factions even do for us

[ashen jungle]

It's honestly been something I've been wondering since back in div1, I kinda thought the plot of the "new york DLC" for div2 (what turned out to be WONY) was going to be us cleaning house.

[patent narwhal]

I feel like manny would get killed by basically everyone on the map if they found out we're working with the same rogues who gassed people alive

[ashen jungle]

instead it went all Tom Clancy and now there's a shadow government, or maybe it's just 3 weirdos in a shed, with how many people died due to not-Amherst.

[ashen jungle]

I'm taking myself out of that argument, I've beaten it to death at this point.

You know what's funny though, we almost had a classic British Villain back in div1, if they had just let Keener's VA use his actual voice.

we had it all set up: money hungry villain, evil other factions, and he's british!

(shout-out to the 3 people who liked Scott in Midsomer Murders)

[glad spruce]

Is there anyone who actually likes him as of late? He's like the playerbase's punching bag

[glad spruce]

That's because they are evil. Not worthy of pity nor mercy.

Then again, there were people thinking Kelso was evil for telling us to kill the True Sons who destroyed the Castle, because god forbid they don't deserve for what they did.

And it does concern me that we're trying to apply morality to enemy factions, like they're innocent or some crap.

[patent narwhal]

who is trying to do that

obviously they're evil nobody here is saying oh my goodness yes I love how morally upstanding the people who burn people alive/gas people/infect people are

just because they're evil doesn't mean the friendly NPCs being harsher in their jeering towards enemies just doesn't exist or isn't warranted

[ashen jungle]

Loads of people in this channel try to defend the mass murders that are the enemy factions of div2.

Like, loads.

The game tries for 1 moment of sympathy for Emeline at the end of the Zoo mission, and you have people falling over, trying to make excuses for her. This is why it's a good idea to take stock of the lore in this series, and take a step back when it gets a bit much.

[patent narwhal]

I mean yeah people do that and try to say the LMB were the greatest people on earth but nobody in the conversation was trying to do that

[glad spruce]

The Pact Manhunt, Comm 6, Resources

||Natalya Sokolova asks The Manager on the current state of their supply lines, which he answered they're down to 15% capacity. When asked about the new recruits (as in, newly hired Sokolov Concern labor), he answered that some have defected, some have died, or refused to work while the rest are trying to keep it all together, hence the 15% capacity sintead of zero.||

||Sokolova asks if the labor can be replaced with AI and drones, which The Manager answered is not possible without requisitioning more Warhounds. So, Sokolova orders him to produce more of them, and he'll have more.||

||Mr. Manager tells his boss that Black Tusk manufacturing is currently not part of his mandate, so Sokolova promotes him to work in the organization's logistics.||

[sleek plover]

Damn i hate lmb

[ashen jungle]

I will note that this channel isn't a conversation with whomever is here, it's a public notice-board.

[torn shoal]

but you défend keener when he did the same in the clinic in ny tho and day he's justified

if they are bad because of what they do, then so are we

if they are bad because of who they kill, then u just apply who's good or bad dépend on who you like, which is a terrible metric and has proven to cause even more pain

but i agree with drib overall, I also know writers dont have the final say in this, and they have to please people that dont care in the first place so it's not easy

[frosty bluff]

Poor Manager gonna be stressed out having to manage both BT & SC supply lines

[glad spruce]

That was in the past, so he's with us in the present.

Until it's explicitly established otherwise, assume all comms are set in the past.

[sick lantern]

who tf are these supposed BY defectors supposed to be

defected to a farm in Minnesota cus they ain’t around

[glad spruce]

All we know about those defectors is they were formerly working in Sokolov Concern.

Considering the comm in mind, it's not exactly rocket science.

[sick lantern]

well i don’t know what you’re trying to refer to but you’re being obtuse as usual

[glad spruce]

I'm finding it difficult to understand your confusion or anger over the whole defectors thing.

[tepid ibex]

Hate when I become an angle

[sick lantern]

I don’t know who or at what point is supposed to have defected from the Black Tusk (besides Schaeffer) as to my knowledge they haven’t been mentioned before, regardless having no presence in DC

[glad spruce]

Again, the defectors referred to in this week's comm were Sokolov Concern labor workers

[sick lantern]

the mention of Warhounds obfuscated that somewhat
ok who and where are these Sokolov production lines and where or what exactly are people defecting to, cus it isn’t the SHD or any known faction in DC, NY or elsewhere

[torn shoal]

defecting doesnt mean joining another faction, it just mean leaving one

[late void]

Pretty sure it does

[sick lantern]

stop responding to my messages if you have me blocked

[glad spruce]

Is the involvement of Sokolov Concern in the story really that big of a problem?

[late void]

Production line workers could easily just be defecting to local civilian groups or similar, unless they were in/near DC I don't see any particular reason we would hear about it.

Even if they were in dc we'd only be informed if it was relevant to our mission in some way, or if it turns up in a random intercepted comm.

[torn shoal]

not really, it mean you abandon your faction, defection in the army mean people fleeing their job

[late void]

Abandon means abandon, defecting means joining the opposite side

[torn shoal]

its often used as desertion

[late void]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/defecting

[torn shoal]

yeah i know its supposed to mean that, but the common usage is not the same

[late void]

I guess it depends what you read, but in my experience (growing up reading a lot of English language books), it basically always means joining the opposition

I guess your 'common' is different from mine

Might be a UK English vs American English thing

[ashen jungle]

Abandon and defection 100% do not mean the same thing no matter where you are.

defection means you are going somewhere specific, abandon means there's nothing specific implied.

[ashen jungle]

@flint obsidian This is the lore discussion channel.

[flint obsidian]

sorry

[floral gull]

What are the chances Natalya will just be a misunderstood or sympathetic antagonist by the end of the storyline with her? Or even just deep undercover

I think such a turn would happen when Cal moves into the forefront or when the Cabal shows up

[rich mulch]

Black tusk have forces field!!! and it mean something ???🤔

[sleek plover]

I told you they are aliens

[tepid ibex]

elaborate, with great length

[sleek plover]

Mcmanus is actually a warlock from Uranus

here

[tepid ibex]

why do you think he's from Uranus and not another planet?

[sleek plover]

Look at his name and the four letters it ends with

[tepid ibex]

fullproof, yet consider his name is simply a facade, and its actually McMenus

[obsidian jay]

1 million tiny deflector drones

(Not really but it'd be funny if that was the case)

[rich mulch]

Or maybe the part of the deflector drone, modified to a full bubble then the sides

[sleek plover]

The downside is that if you breathe while active, it tends to stick to your mucus membrane in your nasal and oral cavities and cause cancer.

[obsidian jay]

Unless you have a mask on of course

[torn shoal]

none, she is very much evil and ordered/supervised herself multiple massacres

[glad spruce]

I don't know why the thought even crossed your mind.

And frankly, it disgusts me. The game did not hold back in emphasizing of how Natalya is a complete psychopath

[late void]

Tbf it did the same for Keener though

[torn shoal]

yeah u cant say that after what u said about keener man, thats completely illogical

people are good or bad because of their actions, not to who they do it

thats why war crimes are bad no matter who does it

when keener does a little war crime, its bad, its not better or worse than when cleaners or bt does it

u can have a redemption arc, for sure, but it cant be complete if you dont acknowledge your previous crimes

just saying "im good now" is just erasing history

i know why u defend him, and while i agree on some of it, you gotta admit he did wrong

no one is completely good or bad, its always a shade of it

even the worst person to exist on the planet deserve fair treatment, cause if you think at some point in their actions they dont, then that line is easily movable to include anyone you dislike/your enemy/etc

fair treatment doesnt mean to be nice and cosy, death penalty is obviously aviable for them

[floral gull]

There’s always a bias for certain characters no matter what actions they took and it seems like Hawkster is one that has been smitten. It usually goes by emotion, feeling, or attraction rather than logicality, and we see that romanticization in the real world with serial killers and other murderers.

I know that my initial comment about the topic felt like bait and it seemed someone took it, but I actually wanted to see how far these current writers can gymnastics their way through some of these characters as how they have done retconning several others already, in a bit of twisted curiosity

[torn shoal]

they can do everything they want if you think like that, as writer they decide who becomes good or bad and can justify it any way they want

[torn shoal]

being emotionnal is fine and all, but it cant be a substitute to logic

[floral gull]

Seems so based on these past years after End of Watch

[floral gull]

Its ideal, but realistically people tend to go for emotions first, especially these days with social media being so apparent as rage baiting, shock value, and general negativity offers a much higher engagement metrics otherwise.

[torn shoal]

thats people that let emotions control them and dont think, we try to not do that here, otherwise mods would just ban everyone on sight

if we only care about emotions, the moment anyone contradict anyone else, it would start raining insults left and right

[floral gull]

I've been on the internet for quite awhile, and while ToS enforcement is publicly standard online(At least nowadays), it usually won't stop people acting out in general, and I don't think Discord is an exception in that regard. Same way as how we have laws against crime, but people still do it.

[torn shoal]

because they dont enforce it for the people they wanna promote, same problem as before with émotions dictating the narrative, that's why Twitter is what it is right now
but that's really off topic so cant really discussion that

[floral gull]

It happens everywhere based on their own agendas, those sites are nothing special, just at the forefront of it

But, back to my previous topic, I do think there is a non zero chance they might steer Natalya's character in another direction based on what they have already done with several past antagonists

[torn shoal]

I dont think that's plausible tbh, at the very best they could make her bad but tried to kill someone worse

[floral gull]

I just want to see them try to pull it off as I think it would be pretty funny, and partly because I really don't have much of a stake to the current direction they are going with the storyline since 2020

[glad spruce]

Is it Tuesday yet?

[torn shoal]

story is fine tbh, its not incredible or anything, but its def not as bad as most people are saying

the goal is not to take your breath away with incredible stuff, its to keep you engaged, and after not playing for a while be like "damn i wonder whats happenning now i should check it out"

and realistically, live game service have next to awful writing overall, so division is def on the good side of this

cause you gotta include gameplay in story in some way, also make each season have its own story, have some arc with several seasons, you cant kill your villain like that, and so on

there are so many stuff that stop writers do go the way they wanna go, and thats just technical stuff, not counting execs not liking the direction its taking, latest ac game being cancelled is a clear example, if you go too much in a direction they dont like, they dont just tell you to tone it down, they can it entirely, so you hinder yourself to avoid that

writing is def a hard thing to begin with, with all of this into account its incredible that division writing is not god awful, despite its flaw i find it really above the rest of the genre

[floral gull]

Not looking for masterclass top tier industry writing at all, as the overall story and premise is what drew me to the series as have most videogame Tom Clancy series have done in the past for me with their gameplay as the main draw. It’s the execution and presentation that could always improve imo. The past seasons have now gotten rid of cutscenes altogether(not that they were anything exceptional btw) and just about the only story progression we get is through comms exclusively now unless any semblance of budget is put into it like Brooklyn. The dialogue style has also noticeably changed in tone and feel over the years. Character interactions and conversation exchanges in them feels very much like a teen drama TV series complete with unresolved personal trauma and angst, and it’s understandable since the current writers probably don’t have the experience on how a conversation should go in a particular Tom Clancy esque setting. I can refer to Splinter Cell Blacklist as to how conversations and dialogue banter could flow and be written in Division’s setting and it could fit pretty well, but it’s besides the point.

[torn shoal]

It’s the execution and presentation that could always improve imo.
thats exactly what im telling u that suffer cause of all of this

they cant change too much stuff cause they need new players to not feel too much lost

a single player campaing isnt the same as live service game as i said before

most of the studio manpower is toward game content, not story

story has to follow the gameplay update, not the other way around mostly

[floral gull]

I believe they’ve been doing this since the games inception, so that’s not really news to me, as is the limited resources they have on hand to handle what they can do with the narrative in general.

[torn shoal]

no, game creation they were way more free to create whatever they wanted story wise, they had a whole story to create from start to finish, not just "just one more episode" style of writing, they had an intro, high tension, climax, etc

when you create a mission, with all the gameplay in it, enemies, boss, etc, u follow the story, now its the other way around cause missions are already there, and they cant create new missions for it, thats why manhunt are the same but with other npc, they are very much limited in possibilities

[floral gull]

Can you rephrase everything you just said cause I’m not following what you’re trying to say tbh. I’m just talking about dialogue structure, not how they are creating an entire mission or season to interweave narratively

I think you’re getting confused and derailed on the initial comments, so I’ll be back later after I take a lengthy nap

[torn shoal]

you talked about the story as a whole before, not just way of talking from characters

[humble jacinth]

I remember reading somewhere that both bt and division don't have enough manpower to equip with the surplus of equipment

Having too much of something becomes a hassle

Plus
You still have accountability of equipment and still upkeep with maintaining it

[tepid ibex]

I have news for you, it may be potentially displeasing to the eyes

[humble jacinth]

Lmao

[floral gull]

In passing sure I understand the story. Doesn’t mean I need it to be rearranged or deconstructed in the game it’s not that serious

I really don’t care what they do to any of the major characters in the game except seeing how they would handle them in potentially unusual ways for my amusement at this point

[ashen jungle]

Just a reminder that this channel is for the discussion of lore of the division franchise itself, not your personal opinion on the quality of the story.

[torn shoal]

and I answered that part lol

[glad spruce]

Groans Fine, Lyfe.

You made your point, especially the reply you gave me yesterday

[floral gull]

Answered what? Anyways, ISAC is what I’m most interested in at this point. It and Anna/Diamond

[torn shoal]

hope u know i like u and stuff u do for the game, thats why i keep engaging with u

u a cool dude, dont forget it

[glad spruce]

blushes a little Thanks

[torn shoal]

uwu

[ashen jungle]

Okay enough of the fanfic junk.

[torn shoal]

was that fanfic ?

I thought we were just talking about possible story routes

[ashen jungle]

If it was you, I would've tagged you.

[tepid ibex]

I just agree with anything Jacobin says, I wholeheartedly believe his theories anymore

[glad spruce]

As per the latest Survivor concept art, my guessesare two. One, Sokolova unleash a few of the U.S nuclear warheads into the atmosphere, causing nuclear winter.

Or two, and that's the more likely scenario, the coming Winter to DC would be harsher than expected.

[ashen jungle]

That first plan is Doctor Evil levels of stupid, so the latter makes more sense.

[torn shoal]

i like doctor evil of stupid tho, its funny

[obsidian jay]

I'm just gonna keep thinking it's a past scenario or something
Since I don't know all the details yet
And is it just me or is that the Div1 marketing agent on the right side?

[sick lantern]

right side of what

[obsidian jay]

#division-tweets message

[sick lantern]

i guess it could be but you know “guy in a jacket and beanie in some concept art” could be anyone/no one

[obsidian jay]

True

[ashen jungle]

It doesn't look a lot like the jacket we get, but concept art being what it is,

[glad spruce]

I don't know why some people here insist on Survivors being set in the past.

I know some of Division 1 evangelicals hated the tone of the second game. Maybe Survivors can be set in December, since we're currently in November in the games timeline.

I swear, some of y'all are weird

[obsidian jay]

It's mostly just from my sights on the environment
The true sons stronghold no longer has all its defenses and Is completely covered in DZ tarp
I'm only making assumptions

[torn shoal]

playing in a different time is not a thing div 1 or 2 does at all

it would break entirely the immersion and would completely lose players

[ashen jungle]

Well, the mobile game is doing exactly that.

set over multiple time periods.

[torn shoal]

forward in time or going back ?

[ashen jungle]

I don't think that's what is happening here, but it wouldn't be out of left-field.

[torn shoal]

cause advancing the timeline is normal, going backward isnt

like a fast forward is ok, elipses are normal

[obsidian jay]

Or

It could just be a gameplay thing like summit

[torn shoal]

but beside flashback, we dont play back in time

[ashen jungle]

IIRC the mobile one is both initial outbreak, and then forward a little, been a minute since I've read the details though.

[torn shoal]

it can mean a lot of thing, its prob just a game mode, might be a jump in time, but unlikely

[glad spruce]

IIRC, isn't Resurgence, the mobile game, supposed to start off at the early days of yhe outbreak, then we get a time skip where the whole story is basically set between Div 1 and Div 2?

[obsidian jay]

Ye

[ashen jungle]

something like that

If we're getting another bfb sized DLC before 3 like I suspect we are, then using Survivors for a month time jump could work out nicely.

a dlc set in spring would be fun.

[torn shoal]

the most crazy thing that could happen is a revamp of the map, and now we play div 2 but in winter

but that would require just too much work, would be cool tho

[ashen jungle]

re-doing the entire DC map is an insane waste of time.

[torn shoal]

yeah obv, but it would be fun

[ashen jungle]

a new area that's all winter could work, but would feel a little jarring.

[torn shoal]

tbh i just hope its not a remake of survival

[ashen jungle]

They have specifically said it's not.

[torn shoal]

then im happy regardless of what we get

its hard to not see the parallel between both tho

[ashen jungle]

It being run by the game director for div1 is noteworthy, but most people don't really know what a game/creative director is, so I leave that part out when I relay the info.

paraphrased from yannick's own words: the creative director "holds the vision of the game", game director "puts the vision into practice".

this is getting off topic from the lore though, so I'll just say that I'm interested how this'll advance the plot.

[torn shoal]

maybe we get another arc of the story where white house is empty now cause we lost control and now we looking for survivors

[ashen jungle]

They've already set up Castle as a replacement.

I think we all know that's where it's going anyway.

[torn shoal]

well i dont xd

[glad spruce]

Yeah, like a backup BoO in the event Black Tusk succeeds in capturing the White House.

[ashen jungle]

At this stage, I'm not even sure what BT could possibly get out of holding the White House.

I'm sure we've cleaned that place out by now.

[torn shoal]

without ellis, not much, maybe they could pretend anderson is in charge now, but it would be a long shot

they always look to pretend they the good guy keeping the peace so holding the white house is kinda symbolic to that

[ashen jungle]

"hey everyone (all 5 of you that's left after the Green Poison), this guy's in charge, go pay taxes or whatever".
Yeah I doubt it.

[torn shoal]

i mean, thats the goal, thats why they got propaganda broadcast saying anderson is good and hunters dont exist

if you kill the factions, and are in charge, you're defacto the gov

[ashen jungle]

Yeah but to what purpose.

[torn shoal]

same purpose as ever, more power, nat wouldnt stop at holding the white house, she clearly wants thee entire us and maybe the world

[ashen jungle]

there's only 10% of america left. And most of those are dead by the various faction wars by now, surely

[torn shoal]

you cant do that if you got an uprising on your back every 10min

[ashen jungle]

a few million people is barely enough to start a new population without going all Habsburg

[torn shoal]

like sure there is a lot of dead, but as once a great man said, people like that would rather reign over a kingdom of ashes rather than leaving anyone live in peace

[glad spruce]

It's the symbolism. If Black Tusk takes over the White House, a lot of people would see them as the rulers of the U.S and gives Nat and her organization legitimacy to run things

[ashen jungle]

I get the sentiment, but I honestly just kinda want to see what happens if Nat or whomever gets it, then realises that there's not enough people to work the fields so they get to rule over the peasents.

[torn shoal]

if they pretend they are legitimate army/gov, it reduced the threat of uprising, even if def not low, its way lower, cause people will say "well they in charge now", just cause they are there

and the fact that we hold it shows thats div still is in charge somewhat

[ashen jungle]

This kind of plot makes more sense if say, half the world died, but just going off america's numbers: there's not enough people to make this work

[torn shoal]

if we talk about the arftermath, thats another discussion entirely, and yeah, situation is dire, but we def can make it if we aint that much stupid

humans only require few thousand people to not create problems within genes, everything else is depending if they are able bodied

[ashen jungle]

you need more for genetic diversity, but that's neither here nor there

none of this is answering my question.

[torn shoal]

the point of having the white house ?

[ashen jungle]

you know what, nevermind. i knew this was a mistake.

[torn shoal]

x)

we def arent good at communicating it seem

[sick lantern]

and the majority of people who are still around can be considered the black tusk’s enemies already, one way or another

having the white house won’t matter much when you’re trying to oppress farmers in Nashville or whatever

[glad spruce]

But if Black Tusk can fulfill their needs, those same people are very likely to accept them

They'd gladly sell their personal freedoms if it meant security.

[sick lantern]

the security to be executed in the street

without hyperbole literally shot in the street

[frosty bluff]

Something I’m curious about is where all the settlements/Manny & the White House JTF would’ve gone in this kind of event

[obsidian jay]

I mean the lights are still on in the whitehouse

[frosty bluff]

Thats just someone

If they were still there, at the very least, the WH entrance would be guarded

[sick lantern]

we have DC, NY, and the entire alliance featured across Operation Crossroads ||(Freighties+Reborn+Molossi+Roughnecks+ literal farming communities lmao)|| plus the majority of known and unknown hostile factions, fighting against the BT
I think that makes up a very large chunk of people who are still alive in the US lmao

[frosty bluff]

Something I’m also curious about

Is New Jersey still a JTF stronghold or under control of a different faction?

[sick lantern]

well i'd have to check my copy of broken dawn to see if it's mentioned or inferrable
but i'd hazard a guess to say it's a bit of a no man's land

April's whole plot in BD involves her travelling from NYC to Ann Arbor and there's no JTF/military presence outside of NYC iirc, rather a mishmash of communities and smaller factions across the land

[frosty bluff]

🤔 interesting

[fossil charm]

Division-Ghost Recon Cross Over missions would be amazing with either Sentinel or Raven Rock would awesome

[glad spruce]

Depends if Ghost Recon are still active in the Division universe

[ashen jungle]

Well since they're not canon with the div universe, being active might be a bit of a stretch.

a non-canon crossover would be fun, like RE-style.

honestly, BT give me Umbrella vibes anyway.

[wicked gorge]

If they were, I doubt they’d be in the US from oversea ops. I don’t recall anything in the universe discussing countries or the US pulling troops back home

[wicked gorge]

You telling me I have to worry about nemesis now?

[floral gull]

https://youtu.be/DSCA70-e_ek?si=m24jY25eHKu-at0q

[glad spruce]

That new NGN video.

[floral gull]

War is coming!

[glad spruce]

Again, it's fan speculation. Don't take it as gospel.

[floral gull]

More like an over arching summary of the current storyline, made into a tasteful vid

and I missed his content

[glad spruce]

Let me repeat again.

FAN. SPECULATION.

[floral gull]

That reminds me, I need to catch up on his previous story compilations for these manhunts

WAR. IS. COMING.

[ember temple]

It's so good tho. Happy to see NGN again

[sick lantern]

guys i think war might be coming idk tho

[glad spruce]

See, at least I like you lol

[torn shoal]

yeah cause we def didnt do war so far lol

[glad spruce]

heavy groan Fine, we're in a war.

[cold bramble]

Looks like for survivors. The BOO has either been attacked again or long abandoned. Depending on the timeline. What’s everyone’s thoughts and speculation on the story aspect of it?

[glad spruce]

No one knows. If something I've learned about speculation and theories, its not to heavily rely on them lest you bring yourself only disappointment

[cold bramble]

True but I think it’s nice to have a conversation about what people think is going to happen though

[floral gull]

For that type of particular conversation, you’re better off in the other server’s lore channels, they are more open to more types of opinions and discourse

[cold bramble]

Ok lol

[ember vector]

NGN our lore god!

Reminds me of something. Did we have any follow-up on who Rick Valassi is? Last I remember, a journalist died trying during her investigation (West Side Piers). I have always wondered how he knew everything about everyone, about The Division, about Directive 51, about each faction and what they were up to (guys in hazmat suit, guys in Ninja Turtle gear, hardcore criminals).

[tepid ibex]

They brought him back in WoNY but his dialogues on the radio are VERY short, they even get cut off. He still out there

[sick lantern]

Rick Valassi is a Vietnam vet and Veterans’ Affairs activist with a bone to pick with the government, and a self proclaimed conspiracy nut. He absolutely did not “know everything” and consistently got his facts wrong (chemtrails, decomposing bodies, “you could be a Division agent yourself and not even know it” etc)

The journalist who tried to investigate him thought it was odd that she couldn’t find a highly accurate paper trail in the midst of societal collapse- shocking, right

[tepid ibex]

oh nvm wrong answer, he just a talk show fella yee

[sick lantern]

He’s literally a guy in a loft

he did however get viral cure research from the Vexix company from Judy Walters, but that plot point is long dead in the water

[ember vector]

Yeah I do remember him getting the USB key next to the car crash. Nothing came out of it.

[ember vector]

I always assumed the journalist was murdered. Kinda like Bill, April's husband (who was for different reasons obviously).

[sick lantern]

we don't even hear her die or anything, she just cuts off

[ember vector]

If I remember correctly, she goes silent, we hear footsteps or something like that and then it cuts off.

[glad spruce]

I'll admit, I was a little disappointed we didn't get to hear more of Valassi in Brooklyn.

[torn shoal]

yeah he is a lovely nutjob, which is way more interesting that the regular nutjob

[glad spruce]

I'm still puzzled about Ruth Massie's comms from West Side Piers.

It felt the writing team was trying to do an ominous tease for a future storyline involving Rick Valassi.

But it got abandoned.

[torn shoal]

im rpetty sure a lot of story arc were left abandonned cause of lack of budget

or ended abruptly

[robust portal]

Guys is there any videos that explains the books the best in chronological order to the game ?

[glad spruce]

Sadly, no.

We do know that Broken Dawn takes place before Division 2 starts

I have my own thoughts on when Recruited takes place, but some uh... might disagree.

[ember temple]

Check with @sick lantern he knows most bout the books

[robust portal]

Nahhh jit you're also here ?

Damn kinda sad no one do content about the books

[ember temple]

Ye I'm everywhere just chat less not as chill over here

[sick lantern]

New York Collapse and Hearts on Fire- start of outbreak/before Div 1
Broken Dawn and Extremis Malis- after Div 1, before Div 2
Recruited- says that it takes place after the current in game plot time in the book. but the game treats it as having already happened
Compromised and Hunted- months later

[robust portal]

So have you read all of it ?
Can i like have a summarize on the books too ?
If it's too long you can like send it in a dm tho

[glad spruce]

There are already summaries in their respectively pages in the wiki

[robust portal]

Hmmm imma check it out

[stiff terrace]

You know what I find weird a briefing would make sense in the game but even at times when appropriate to do so(invasion) there isn’t

[glad spruce]

Are you referring to the briefings that Manhunts used to have?

[stiff terrace]

I guess but I mean in general works update feel like they should have a briefing unless we are immediately thrown into something hectic

[glad spruce]

Yeah, I get what you mean.

It was weird we didn't get a briefing for this season when we had one last season.

[sinful mauve]

(Bringing back the old manhunt briefing is better than without it)

[torn shoal]

old briefings were for old manhunts style mission, season 2.0 changed manhunts too, we only go for a single target now, not 5

[glad spruce]

Yeah, but I don't think it'd hurt to have a briefing summarizing our actions from a previous season and the premise of the current season.

Hell, even a text briefing would do.

[glad spruce]

The Pact Manhunt, Comm 7, Bug Reports.

||Calvin McManus greets The Manager by his title, which the latter insists to stop calling him that. So, the DHS Secretary asks him what's his name again, but the Manager relents and prefers being called by his title.||

||Cal's visit to The Manager was in regards to the surplus of Warhounds that Natalya Sokolova gave to him, as those bots were walking on two legs and keep falling down the stairs.||

||The Manager explains its due to legacy coding related to bipedal movement experiments done from last year, as what he said, then mentioned there was a note in the patent.||

||Cal was miffed after learning of his Warhound problem, and could only sarcastically reply 'perfect'.||

[glad spruce]

I do like it when some comms make a callback from previous comms released a while back.

[true fox]

Thanks

[true fox]

Me too

[glad spruce]

I should've said this earlier, but 4 additional comms were added when the patch released.

So the total count for this Manhunt's comms is 15.

[cold bramble]

Anything interesting?

[glad spruce]

For this week's comm, it makes a reference to the warhound mobility experiments from Year 5 Descent comms.

[glad spruce]

Are you talking about the Legacy Manhunt timeline menu?

[true fox]

Yes

[ashen jungle]

@true fox This channel is for discussing the lore of the div shared world, not glitches in the game.

[glad spruce]

Oh, I see what Will meant.

What a mess. But yeah, back to the lore.

[true fox]

Do we happen to have a list of questions that haven't been answered in the story so far? I think that would be good... no... it would be great. It would help fill in the gaps in the feedback.

[glad spruce]

Not really.

[cold bramble]

Be nice if the in game timeline was more detailed. That would answer a lot of questions

[true fox]

We need to make a list of questions

It shouldn't be much

[glad spruce]

Some of us might get carried away, so I doubt it won't be too much.

[steel warren]

who and what exactly are the hunters?

[lone adder]

The hunters are SHD agents who are loyal to Calvin McManus

[steel warren]

next question who's mcmanus

[lone adder]

Secretary of Homeland security

[steel warren]

next next question what's the purpose of the hunters? if they're SHD agents why do they hunt us down as if we're not SHD agents too?

[lone adder]

Anyone that doesn't loyally follow McManus is marked "Rogue" and therefore is an enemy of McManus

[true fox]

speaking of hunters, this new hunter, (although I understand it's not canonical) his mask... has no eyes...
what a strange thing, I found myself wondering if there was a possibility that Cal would have the courage to hand over a position like that to a blind man, even if the technologies have orientation support as well.

[sinful mauve]

His blind actually. He prob rely on his hounds as his eyes and ears or his spamming his echo pulse ability

and we're not sure if he was a BTSU operative turned Hunter

[true fox]

is there anything on the death screen to read?

[torn shoal]

Hunters were designed as a failli safe to stop rogue agents, but now they follow mcmanus who think division is just a problem cause they fight him and his rise to power

[sick lantern]

McManus is trying to take over the country more or less

[sick lantern]

this is not true as the Hunters have been attacking Division agents since before any of them knew McManus was up to no good

[frosty spoke]

https://youtu.be/d6jB5Pj9Nx8 The Descent: Comms number 22. Cal discussing with Claire Ortiz (one of developers of ISAC) that "accidental" (Agent broke into farmacy to get necessary supplies) Rogue mark basically killed one of the agents, because it restricted access to tech. To which they agreed that Rogue mark wouldn't restrict access to tech anymore, but they'll also activate Hunter protocol (which is basically handpicked agents watching over other agents and answering to Cal directly)

[glad spruce]

Whether the agents knew of McManus or his actions before the Hunters made their attacks is irrelevant

[frosty spoke]

Yep, all they need is Cal pointing to this or that agent and tell "they're up to no good, deal with them"

[torn shoal]

if we had to wait for us to know cal was bad for him to attack us that would render the whole "surprise element" of the attack useless lol

cal is power hungry, always have been, for now he listen to nat but i wouldnt be surprised if he tried to double cross her (and fail cause he is dumb af)

and hunters are loyal to cal, not nat, they listen to her cause cal told them to, but if he changes his mind and split up with nat, she loses a huge force to send face her enemies

for now cal knows he cant take power by himself, but when dynamics change, his alliegance will change too

[sick lantern]

it is relevant, actually, because if Hunters are killing non-rogue agents who also don’t know about McManus’ plans (which is exactly what they did), it proves they are a pre emptive measure to undermine the SHD rather than police it

[sick lantern]

how is that relevant to what i said

if it wasn’t clear i was saying the “rogue agent police” bit was untrue, because all information relating to McManus and his role in the NSA (World of The Division, Broken Dawn novel, NSA comms in game) shows that he was conspiring to bring down the country with the outbreak
and that Hunters are in turn his private force to undermine the SHD by killing them, even non rogues, which is exactly what they do all the time

[torn shoal]

Hunter Hunt rogue agents, that's what they do, they just been told every agent is rogue, they kill us for that reason, not cause they want power. they were always meant for rogue agents only, as our failsafe, but they dont have a failsafe for them, so they think whatever they do is right. they arent a pmc, they still think they are on mission. it doesnt matter what mcmanus does, the goal of Hunters is unchanged, they are just being played

we are meant to save what remain and still some of us go rogue, that doesnt mean our goal isnt true, it's still there

[sick lantern]

I’m not gonna argue in circles with a liar who has me blocked

[glass notch]

That's my theory in the divashion channel bro

@sinful mauve
#divashion message

[glad spruce]

Hunters have been undermining SHD since day one

[sick lantern]

that's what I said they were created to do

[torn shoal]

i mean not really day one since they were sent after second wave cleared ny already

but its unclear when cal decided to target all agents and not just rogues, cause they were only in dz in div 1, so the chances to get rogues were super high, and there was no real incentive to kill non rogues yet

now he is power hungry and all that, but back then, situation wasnt that bad, so there was no use killing div agents

[torn shoal]

bro didnt read the rules

[obsidian jay]

I just kind of assumed that the hunters in survival mode were going off their own assumptions at that time since comms were borked for the division due to the snow storm so they wound up just killing any agents in the dark zone because well wtf are we doing in the darkzone

I do think the underground hunters were just filler tho imo

[torn shoal]

well pvp is enable in dz on survival and you arent marked rogue for it iirc, so yeah for hunters everyone there is rogue

underground hunters are the same as all other hunters that arent in missions, not canon

[empty hull]

So I see TD2 is on sale on steam. I got the first game, and while I haven't done literally everything in it, I've got 60 hours, and I enjoyed my time. I'm biased towards TD1 purely because of its setting, but I was wondering if TD2 was worth picking up. Isn't there a Halloween event going on in TD2? Is the game worth picking up to experience that?

[torn shoal]

you wont really expérience the évent en cause it's on the end game, but game is still good and worth its price tbh, also this is the lore channel, you can try #ask-td2-community if you need any help

[frosty spoke]

What I meant is that they are "rogue police", on paper.

[frosty spoke]

Considering what we know, I'd say that SHD are his "private army", and Hunters are there to make sure SHD stays in line

[sick lantern]

That is very much not true

McManus hasn’t ever actually ordered the Division to do anything, so
nor is he actually meant to hold any authority over the SHD as they can only answer to the POTUS

and are only under the DHS on a technicality

[frosty spoke]

Cal, as Secretary of Homeland Security, literally made SHD

[frosty spoke]

Yet, as shit hit the fan, he held the autority over SHD. Even in that comm I posted, he refers to agent that died as "one of my agents"

[sick lantern]

no, George Bush made it when he signed NSPD51

[frosty spoke]

Calvin McManus Secretary of Homeland Security, Supervisor of the development/creation of the SHD

Chain of command, ever heard of it?

[sick lantern]

yes, he’s not part of it

idk why you’re acting like this over something the world book literally says printed on paper, and then the game confirmed with the Ellis plotline

[frosty spoke]

And theres a part of Descent comms plotline dedicated to development of SHD that I refer to

[sick lantern]

yes, he is connected to the SHD, but he is not its leader or creator
and all the Ortiz Robotics backstory of SHD tech is a retcon anyway, so

[frosty spoke]

Oh and Ellis was manipulated by Cal and whoever Cal answers to

[obsidian jay]

wha

[frosty spoke]

Previous POTUS "mysteriously dies" at the beginning of the Outbreak, and more cooperative Ellis takes his place

The game was rigged from the start

[glad spruce]

You mean President Mendez? He was killed by Secret Service agents and made it look like a s***ide

[frosty spoke]

Exactly

[sick lantern]

you do know there was a president before that who died of a heart attack

[glad spruce]

Yeah, President Waller

[frosty spoke]

And how does that contradicts my point of "non cooperative" POTUS' being assassinated? Can we confirm that this "heart attack" was natural?

[glad spruce]

Can't say I cared about Waller, especially when the Descent comms established him trying to crack down on privacy protections.

[sick lantern]

can you confirm or find any evidence or voice line or etc that it was suspicious?

[frosty spoke]

The whole plotline of Cal and this shady organisation that he works for conspiracy..?

[sick lantern]

that’s speculation, not evidence

it’s by no means an unreasonable theory but as far as I know there’s no in universe reference to it

[frosty spoke]

Like two POTUS' dying in the short amount of time, one confirmed as staged "suicide". And then after Ellis died, we have other members of government dying that are in line of getting "nuclear codes", in short time

Yeah, thats just coincidence, because its not confirmed by comms directly

[sick lantern]

that’s fallacious thinking

if it’s true, then how, as the BT hadn’t yet began operating, and why hasn’t it been mentioned

why mention one assassination and not contextualise it with another

[frosty spoke]

Cal setting the stage, and then Sokolova controlled BT rolling in when situation is at worst

[frosty spoke]

Because it would be too obvious..?

[torn shoal]

damn, i have to agree with weebs on this one, its only speculation for this one particular instance, there is no evidence its true
its true for everything else tho

[frosty spoke]

Or I could say, Weller was the "cooperative" one, but died of natural heart attack and "uncooperative" Mendes steps in, which is unfortunate for Cal, hence the assassination

[sick lantern]

too obvious for the plot elements to be included in the plot

[torn shoal]

i mean even if its obviously the case, there is still no evidence, just cause its convenient doesnt mean its real

[frosty spoke]

Not everything need to be hanged on a plate with zero effort from the player to piece bits together

[torn shoal]

i didnt say u need to have a com of nat or cal saying "yes i killed the president, with this poison, for the president, for killing the president, the president's poison"

u could just have they talk about it in a detour like "if you dont wanna live the same fate as this guy dont ever question me" or something

but so far in the entire com list, none is saying anything close to this

[sick lantern]

does need to be referenced at any point in official material before it can be considered part of the universe, though

[frosty spoke]

I mean, when you have
A) POTUS 2 died in staged "suicide"
B) POTUS 3 turned out to be a puppet
C) Other government figures begin dying, that just happen to have necessary clearances passed to them from POTUS 3 after he died.
You start asking yourself a question, what really happened to POUTS 1

[torn shoal]

again, you're not reading me, all of this is speculation, not proofs

[frosty spoke]

What I'm trying to say is "they" (Cal and other conspirators) needed someone in POTUS position that is loyal to them, that is a fact. And its either
A)Weller wasn't the one and #division-universe message
B)Weller was and #division-universe message
And yes, I agree that this is a speculation, but a very solid one

[torn shoal]

as i said, yes its very likely, i dont disagree

[empty hull]

Sorry. I didn't know where else to go. I actually muted the TD2 channels because I was solely focused on TD1, so I forgot they were there. Thx for the advice

[sleek plover]

Soon will the wellerman come to bring us sugar and tea and rum

[tepid ibex]

Agreed, big fan of rum

[frosty spoke]

Just noticed I mispelled his name

[sick lantern]

@barren sinew #td2-general-chat message
for being new to the franchise you have a better grasp on events than a lot of fans

[barren sinew]

I got Division lore from an unlikely place

Left 4 Dead 2 Modpack

[sick lantern]

in terms of how division agents are chosen i can take some pictures from the world book and send them to you, later or after work tomorrow tho

[barren sinew]

Sure thing, so what's the casualty rate for Agents?

That means dead/injured/traitor

[sick lantern]

well we don't know specifically how many agents there actually are

we can say we've seen a lot of injuries, deaths, and traitors in the rogues and hunters, but we can't say if that's a large or small fraction of agents

the entire first wave was dead or MIA by the start of div 1, but rogues actively trying to conceal their presence aren't really "casualties"

[barren sinew]

So we can asume first wave is dead or traitor?

[sick lantern]

you should probably play div 1 before 2, setting up the paradigms of the plot is important

[barren sinew]

Will watch videos instead

[torn shoal]

entire first wave is either dead or rogue, 2nd wave isnt looking good now, div 2 is months later

[tepid ibex]

Baffles me everytime someone plays TD2 and skips TD1. Its like watching Better Call Saul and disregarding Breaking Bad. You get to explore a virus ridden NYC in the winter around christmas time and get first hand experience on how DC went to shit too

Not to mention the graphics still being absolutely amazing

[barren sinew]

Okay okay, will get Division 1 and 2 base game

I think its 11 euros

[fossil charm]

Do you think they will give houndsman lore? seems like an interesting hunter tho the best hunter remains d1 survival hunter. I think they need to give the hunters more lore, maybe some tie into being members of raven rock/bodark from ghost recon. They do act similar to Bodark did, at least the Future Soldier variety of Bodark

There's a rumor that they are from the Ghost Team, i would argue they'd be more akin to the Wolves. Similar fighting style, same tracking you, nullifying your gear while able to use their own drones. In reality they act more like the real world Spooks, like Russia's Vympel & Zaslon, South Africa's Special Branch, Mossad & u.s CIA SOG or even army ISA, British E-Squadron. Its more likely they're from Bodark or Ghosts. Judging by their tech, fighting style, brutality, disappearing etc, Black ops is more likely

[glad spruce]

Yeah, you're kinda off the mark here. We already knew who the Hunters since Season 9.

They're division agents who aligned themselves with Calvin McManus, Secretary of Homeland Security.

[tepid ibex]

It’s got a great ambiance and factions. The first trailers were hype asf. Wish i could experience for the first time again. It’ll be worth it.

[frosty bluff]

If I remember correctly, were third wave division agents primarily logistics agents?

[obsidian jay]

we have a third wave??

[glad spruce]

No

[sick lantern]

there is no third wave

[barren sinew]

So play division 1 and then 2. Correct?

[ashen jungle]

@barren sinew We can only help with lore in this channel, but if you want the full story: yes, div1, then div2.

[frosty bluff]

I probably hallucinated a third wave

[sick lantern]

chatgpt out here

[torn shoal]

there is no official third wave but div 2 agents are basically third wave since we got activated country wide not just ny

[glad spruce]

Yeah, I consider D.C Division agents as more like the second wave.

Also, tomorrow's the 8th comm. And we're 2 weeks away from the Climax mission

[ember vector]

I thought the Climax Mission was in three weeks, on November 18th.

[glad spruce]

Nope. We're now on week 8, with 2 Scouts left

[glad spruce]

The Pact Manhunt, Comm 8, Production.

||Natalya Sokolova and The Manager discuss the state of Sokolov Concern, where the latter informed his boss there's stability in routine, then asks her how long the outbreak will last.||

||Sokolova tells him there's no way to know, and the best thing they can do is keeping their people safe and take care of. Mr. Manager, as he moved regular five-shift schedule to twelve-hour day shifts.||

||When his boss asks for the reason he cnaged the shift schedule, the Manager explains it was for morale and with every Sokolov Concern employee living in campus now, they can have emals together and get a more regular sleep schedule, better for the overall health of the employees.||

||Lastly, Sokolova tells the Manager that she expects him to have the company to be back at full production at the end of the week.||

[open sentinel]

not sure if it counts as lore or if it was already well known, but kanye is canon in the division universe 💔

summit headhunter merit

[torn shoal]

wym

[ashen jungle]

Some of the named items, etc reference real world things in their descriptions.
e.g. "rip and tear" being on Claws Out.

[open sentinel]

the quote at the bottom of that merit is kanyes and has - Kanye West at the end

unless theres some agent out there called kanye west i think hes canon

would send an sc but cant in this channel

[glad spruce]

I think its the one where you have to kill 25 named enemies from each enemy faction in Summit

[torn shoal]

fitting

[glad spruce]

I'd also advice not take any quotes from the commendations as relevant to the lore/story

A lot of them are quotes from historical figures or famous people

[ashen jungle]

More than a few of them are flat-out memes, so don't take them too seriously.
It was also before the whole "recent" thing with Mr West.

[open sentinel]

yeah i assumed it wouldnt be counted as real lore but still funny that its technically in universe

[sick lantern]

@celest hare Diamond is the Black Tusk's computer network, it features no AI unlike ISAC and ANNA

[celest hare]

Ahh...

[ashen jungle]

Think of it like an Alexa.

[celest hare]

Alexa is ai.

Well... Kind of

[ashen jungle]

There's no such thing as actual AI that is commercially available.

Alexa is as much AI as Siri is AI.

i.e.: not.

[celest hare]

What about the ALEXA x ISAC collab?

[ashen jungle]

ISAC is also not a true AI, they're a GPS with a voice recognition and able to work out certain word/voice patterns.
ANNA is notable because it's rumoured that it may have actual sentience, or at least that's what we think so far.

I'm still unconvinced ANNA isn't just a tool for Sokolova.

[glad spruce]

Considering how much Sokolova got offended by ANNA to the point she wanted a network with no AI, I doubt she has any tolerance for ANNA

[ashen jungle]

Nat's good at concealing the truth until it's useful for her to reveal it, if at all, so don't count her out just yet.

[torn shoal]

i mean, if you go into sentience territory, thats a big leap without making sure we all know what it means and how to prove it exist within isac/anna/even us

not to rehash the same thing again, but sentience isnt really well defined, thats why turing test was good 50 years ago, not really anymore

obv anna has the tropes of "maybe im sentient, who knows, not you for sure lol"

and we have too many organic stupidity to deal with before we get into artificial intelligence

[ashen jungle]

@lean garnet None of that has anything to do with lore discussions.

#1380126780152614944 if you want to give ideas to the dev team.

[lean garnet]

Ok. My bad. I didn't realize I was in the wrong chat.

[fossil charm]

So currently exploring Brooklyn and as Agen Hoskin started talking, It got me thinking. What would a story dlc with the Ghosts be like?
Personally i won't mind the dlc, With Nomad leading a mission with now and then you team up with members of his team that either joins you in combat similar to npcs on missions or control points. Story wise they could tie it in with either Raven Rock, which leads back to the Russian Consulate mission Division 1 or tie it in with either Sentinel or Skell Tech, which ties in with Black Tusk and the supplier to the drones & darpa.

It also gives them an opportunity to add in weapons like the ACR & SR-3M & armor pieces and balaclavas, hats and masks from Breakpoint and maybe even a 40mm Grenade Launcher Attachment. I definitely won't be opposed to an Mark 23 .45cal Pistol(especially the SOCOM Option from MGS 1) & the South African R4 Assault Rifle

[torn shoal]

ghost isnt in division universe

[fossil charm]

neither was assassin's creed in watch dogs yet they made it happen nor will it stop the ghosts from appearing, a simple tie in was a few training instructors was from the ghosts, specifically survival and combat, which will make more sense realistically how a civilian agency is able to survive while being outgunned in the division world. A simple way would be that the ghosts survived the green poison & was investigating black tusk, which is more their domain

[torn shoal]

agents arent civilians

also it wont happen, at best u can get some skins/weapon with some flavor text, not a whole content

they already dont have enough to make normal division content, they cant make crossovers

[glad spruce]

Also, the Division is set in the post-outbreak collapse.

And I doubt Ghost Recon or even Rainbow would be active during that time.

[sinful mauve]

They be stuck in that damn South America lol. Also yeah Agents arent civilians. They were mostly retired soldiers, those who commit in the society and the community, Ex-spec ops etc etc

Of course SHD recruitments can just let anyone to join. Unless you're secretly an eco terrorist lol

[fossil charm]

yeah no. in that event, theyd be recall home for defense

[glad spruce]

How exactly would you defend against a virus causing societal collapse?

[fossil charm]

In the event of unrest, factions taking hold/resistance groups, looting, even attacks, plus terrorist both local and internation plus the rural groups would take the chance to cause further chaos to cause more instability and cause damage, attacks, even false flag attacks. The ghosts would 100% be recalled home to defend the country, most likely by operating alongside groups like the GRS, SOG to try eliminate the leaders of these groups or implode them similar to what Splintercell would be deployed for. While the labs and private owned labs and darpa works on a cure. They won't be left doing a mission vs defending their homeland from an active attack by local groups and insurgencies. Its basic logic, in the even of that in real life, all abroad, both general military, special ops and spooks will be recalled home for the defense of the nation and try stabilize the situation.

Its similar to what happened a few years in South Africa with the mass looting which is still suspected a false flag op by the one political party. Abroad military units was recalled home and they even deployed special forces to strategic and important locations & even had a few CTU units investigating the suspected party. The same would happen

[torn shoal]

ghost job isnt to fight civilians at home, its to fight civilians in other countries

u know, cia stuff

also green poison has 90% mortality rate, so you can assume 90% of ghost is dead just by poison, the rest shouldnt look so good cause they got no support

and overall, division isnt really good at doing "political stuff", thats why its usually banned topic

[sick lantern]

DARPA develops military technology, they don’t research viruses

[fossil charm]

lol, who do you think created some of their tech or the bio reactor who helped with the anti virus like the real one

[sick lantern]

what does that even mean

the BSAV were developed in ann arbor

and if you don't believe me for whatever reason I have a chapter, page number, and quote, from Broken Dawn, ready to go

[frosty bluff]

Mhm, DARPA didn't work on making a cure for the Green Poison. What DARPA did was create a bio reactor designed to reproduce an antiviral for Green Poison once the DCD finished producing one. With BSAVs becoming available, Black Tusk & the Division goes in to take the bioreactor to hopefully mass produce BSAVs for legitimacy over DC.

[glad spruce]

And now, Black Tusk has the bioreactor, which will allow them to reproduce as many BSAVs as they need.

[torn shoal]

dont they also have chernenko ?

[frosty bluff]

Yup

[slate plank]

Do you guys think the lore of survival is when the factions finally put the division to their knees and since then the division is at disarray

[sick lantern]

do you mean Survivors? because that’s not what happens in Survival at all

[slate plank]

Yeah, mb I meant div2 survivors

[tepid ibex]

or the SHD got info of chem attacks and went into hiding beforehand. Idk i just wanna play this shi already

[glad spruce]

10 days left till the Climax mission

[torn shoal]

do we have a clue who we gonna kill ?

[glass notch]

My theory is:
It's a multi boss mission because of Harlan Lloyd being one of the person who escaped and Mayhem mostly not being mentioned (mostly) during the current timeline and another True Sons (maybe Anderson) but that's just a theory

A GAME THEORY

[glad spruce]

What do you guys think McManus looks like?

[torn shoal]

prob old and grumpy

[frosty bluff]

From how the voice actor sounds, the most texan a texan can be

[ashen jungle]

It's best not to assume when it comes to VA's, heck, Keener's VA is very, very british.

Harlan Lloyd has the same VA as Coop Dennison. They be talented.

[torn shoal]

reminds me of hugh laurie playing in avenue 5 trying to hide his english accent

in fear of being spaced out

[ashen jungle]

I think House proved that to be unnecessary.

[torn shoal]

no i mean his character is hding his accent cause being british is bad there

its a funny show very much stupid but damn i laughed a lot

too bad it was canned like every good show they make

[ashen jungle]

Never heard of it, doesn't sound like my thing.

[torn shoal]

its a parody of space opera sitcoms

name is a reference to babylon 5

[ashen jungle]

I assumed it was a reference to that, and probly stuff like Lexx, etc, but still doesn't sound like my thing.
but regardless: back to the div lore now.

[marble dawn]

I imagine him looking like Dean Norris if he was running for president

[glad spruce]

That's funny, cuz I'm currently imagining McManus looks like a middle-aged politician wearing eye-glasses and has a thick facial hair peppered with gray hairs.

[torn shoal]

middle age politician mean super old guy for everyday folks

[slate plank]

In the climax mission I want so that we go to a main mission location, and it turns out we have to go straight to a control point to defend the area

MLK memorial library has an interior for missions, and the Washington monument literally has a underground system with tech

[torn shoal]

its not big enough for a climax mission

they are only big enough for side mission and hunter quest

[glad spruce]

And usually, Climax missions remixes the normal version of missions we've played in the past

Like how the Manager climax mission added Black Tusk props in Potomac Event Center, when there wasn't any in the normal version of PEC.

[slate plank]

Well anything can happen, I remember a manhunt mission where we went to Coney Island. Did part of the mission layout before having to turn back, and finish the rest of the mission at the same spot where we started the entire division 2 main story

Maybe we have to start a climax mission at the American history museum, and then turns out we have to be at the Washington monument, so we have to fight our way over there

The two locations aren’t too close to each other but not too far apart for a mission to happen

[glad spruce]

I'd imagine we'd have a cutscene to take us from AHM to Washington Monument

[slate plank]

The distance isn’t far if we have to go from the entrance of AHM to monument

[marble dawn]

Probably old news to some but I just had Vik call the agent Sheriff, saying Kelso told them to call them that.
Nice to know that title still exists

[torn shoal]

that wasnt part of the climax mission, it was just a cinematic with extra steps

[glad spruce]

I'd dare say the Black Tusk attack on the White House was more exciting to play.

Unfortunately, it was only playable when Season 11/Y4S3 was active.

[torn shoal]

ye, they wont do that stuff again cause people will complain they cant play it after

[glad spruce]

Having fully replayable legacy Manhunts would help a lot.

[ember temple]

That I agree with

[glad spruce]

The Pact Manhunt, Comm 9, True Sons

||Natalya Sokolova presents General Anderson to the Sokolov Concern wing of the operation, and Anderson was impressed.||

||He talks to The Manager, and asks him about Schaeffer's helmet. Mr. Manager asnwers he didn't personally make the helmet, but it was manufactured by Sokolov Concern. Anderson requests the Manager to have a helmet similar to the one Schaeffer used, citing the TBI that good ol' Bardon suffered after a shot in the head, and Anderson would like to have the same insurance policy.||

[torn shoal]

not sure they can do it, or that the content was saved at all

[glad spruce]

Look, just let me have this copium, alright?

[sinful mauve]

Imagine the boss is Anderson again but with Black Tusk gear and Shaeffer's helmet lol

[glad spruce]

I'm 100% sure we'll get 2 comms for next week's Scout mission.

[slim light]

oh i would dump my bullet's into that thick skull after the price of power season

[glad spruce]

As we near the finale, my theory feels even more valid.

[slim light]

and we might face all factions here

[fringe gale]

i can smell a general anderson boss fight

[glad spruce]

Temper your expectations xD

[marble dawn]

Next season? Would fit the mutiny theme

[torn shoal]

anderson too much a coward tbh

he fled at pentco too

[marble dawn]

cornered (with helmet) rat anderson boss fight

[torn shoal]

i dont think he would ever fight anyone taller than a 7yo girl coughing on her deathbed

he's a complete coward

until everyone fighting for him is dead, he will pretend, then will ask to be a prisoner

[slate plank]

I’m expecting the climax fight to be at the capitol cuz it’s Anderson that’s gearing up

[glad spruce]

All I will say is that temper your expectations for the finale mission next week

This whole Manhunt is about us against True Sons/Hyenas/Outcasts

[frosty bluff]

Today was talks between True Sons & The Manager, do you think the remainder would seek to include the other factions or just more Manager & Sokolova talks?

[glad spruce]

I'm willing to bet there'll be more comms concerning other factions

[torn shoal]

I gotta say hawkster u telling others to manage expectations on this manhunt when u dont manage ur own about the lore is kinda funny x)

[glad spruce]

Probably, but I'd argue that my problem is managing my temper when discussing the lore xD

[torn shoal]

ye thats true but its a work in progress

[slate plank]

I will say, from what I know about the lore now: the hyenas, the outcast, true sons, and black tusk all have one thing in common, the division has be solely responsible for crippling their survival every time they do something and they just want the division to fall. The hyenas are on the brink of complete disarray and the outcasts don’t have a real leader. True sons are just getting there given general anderson has been making moves, but I doubt he feels safe running operations in dc since he knows the division tried to intercept him before. Black tusk are the only faction that came close to crippling the division by almost overrunning the White House before agents came back in time since having them going to Coney Island was part of their plan. They know division agents are a major threat (especially the god awful agents that are built different which is us lol) to them

[sand basin]

hi

I'm new player

[glad spruce]

You should go to #ask-td2-community

[torn shoal]

ok last com def changed a bit anderson and he might be the target of this manhunt actually

[wind swan]

What is the actually crack with the story? like are we rouge now or are we still division agents?

like what is the actually end goal of the developers?

Cause were working with the rouges aren't we?

[late void]

Our watch is still orange

[wind swan]

But we don't hear Isak much anymore (I only here him near the Whitehouse)... I hear the female voice mostly now (Forgot her name)

[glad spruce]

ANNA

As far as ISAC is concerned, we're still on mission.

But to Black Tusk and Hunters, we're seen as Rogues cuz we've been constantly undermining their alliance.

We're working with Keener's Rogues cuz they have the means to take down Black Tusk's network that's powering their tech and drones, DIAMOND.

[slate plank]

Technically we’re still working with SHD but we’re also working with Parnell

I’m surprised we’re not rogues yet but it’ll be soon. If kelso went rogue, we might as well

[torn shoal]

tbh idk why kelso went rogue

[glad spruce]

She went Rogue because she wanted to continue and finish what Faye Lau started

[torn shoal]

no but like, the watch went rogue she was already with keener and theo

[glad spruce]

Yeah, that means she's officially Rogue.

[torn shoal]

no u dont get me, she wasnt rogue in the start of the cinematic, while being with keener and theo

isac doesnt decide u go rogue out of nowhere, there is an action u take that decide to mark u rogue, and in the cinematic there isnt anything

but she didnt do anything in the cinematic

[ashen jungle]

Dramatic licence is a legit ISAC protocol, I'm convinced.

[torn shoal]

cause like why is kelso marked as rogue for working with keener but we dont

[ashen jungle]

The red is just too much for the style of it all, and ISAC knows that not every Agent dresses in all-black like the Rogue-edge lords do.

so our watch stays orange.

[torn shoal]

yeah i guess its for the dramatic effect but it fk up the consistency

[ashen jungle]

Let's just say that the watch being the wrong colour is not the only problem with consistency and leave it at that, and not even a particularly big one, comparatively speaking.

[torn shoal]

i guess we can pretend she hurt another division agent (even if its just a shock trap) to get something, but thats a stretch

and keener needed her to go rogue to trust her entirely

[ashen jungle]

Unless there's a heel-turn later on, I doubt Keener is going to be an actual villain again in the forseeable future.

[torn shoal]

i hope he can still be gray-ish hero, that would be a good personality trait, and more interesting than the boring "we good they bad"

[ashen jungle]

Eventually he'll come back up as a villain, that I'm sure, but for a while at least, we're going to be getting the oli..... owner of a PMC.

[torn shoal]

idk, seeing how the story is going so far, im sure there will be another bigger vilain after nat, first we have to take care of the factions leaders like anderson, then mcmanus, then maybe nat, then the cabal, and at this point maybe div 3 will be out xd

[ashen jungle]

Not to be all judgy or anything, but if someone has asked me back in 2017 if the Illuminati were going to be part of the div lore, I would've wanted them drug tested.

[slate plank]

From what it seems like, keener and Parnell were seen as really bad people because of black tusk (or maybe Matthew grant). IMO, I think kelso mightve did something behind the scene that led to her being rogue. Also, keener did turn himself in after helping him in the bunker, so I doubt doing just that made us rogues

Also come to think of it, now I just realize how we’re still not rogues even though we’re working directly with Parnell and Hoskins given they’re both rogues

I think maybe Ortega does realize some rogues are not bad people, it’s just that black tusk and hunters are massive SHD and JTF haters

[torn shoal]

there is no behind scenes, she wasnt rogue at the start of cinematic, she was at the end

[torn shoal]

yeah me too, but we gotta deal with what we have :/

[glad spruce]

Dealing with conspiracy stuff is like a staple in Tom Clancy's brand

[slate plank]

Just remembered kelso shot and killed a doctor at the White House while trying to revive Schaffer from a coma

Theories say the doctor was part of black tusk but there’s no way anyone related to black tusk would walk free in the White House

[ashen jungle]

That was actually the Barber, who was yes, working for Nat'.

The entire manhunt leading up there was talk of Nat almost certainly having at least one person in the White House as a spy, likely more than 1. The rumours at the time were the gun range guy, who is Lau's old GF's dad. A BT manhunt boss.

The issue with the scene was more that it wasn't communicated well in the moment, but IIRC Kelso didn't say anything that cutscene at all, so likely it was a timing thing with the VA's.

[sick lantern]

working with rogues doesn’t automatically mark you as rogue, presumably as part of the division’s autonomous mandates
it happens in division 2 and in the division: hunted

[slate plank]

All I can think about is the security at the white house is weaker than the security at the dark zone because if a rogue agent managed to slip into the White House, than anyone skilled enough can

[ashen jungle]

They let the White House get invaded by BT after we left for 5 minutes, I think the security of our BoO was never top-notch.

[slate plank]

iirc we went all the way to New York to find someone, just to find out it was a planned trap so that black tusk can raid our BoO without our presence and delay our interference

It didn’t work well for them though, however they did leave enough damage

[ashen jungle]

I mean, they got away with a ton of people, and got everything they wanted from the trip, IIRC we still don't have the reactor back.
I'd say it worked out.

[slate plank]

So black tusk wasn’t trying to take control of the BoO, just needed to kill Lewis and get the reactor?

[ashen jungle]

I don't think they cared that much about Lewis tbh.

It's not like he was doing a lot for us, no one really wants the True Sons.

even Nat just seems exhausted trying to deal with how worthless they are for anything requiring tact, they're good bodies to throw into the grinder to slow us down, that's about it.

[slate plank]

It sounds like to me black tusk have been finding ways to take down the division, from allying with the true sons to resupplying the hyenas, but just can’t do it

I don’t see outcasts doing anything recently

[ashen jungle]

Outcasts are basically done due to their main leader being dead, and their big threat of a-symptomatic blood being basically over AFAWK, Hyenas I can't see being an issue, they're too easy to deal with, and most of their leaders are dead too.

Cleaners are still a thing, but less all the time, Rikers I can maybe see since they're so structured, but again, leadership is an issue.

[zenith spruce]

seems like every faction is kinda used up at this point except bt/wt/ts so what's next new faction?

[slate plank]

I don’t think cleaners have a leader anymore cuz we killed off Coney and and their leaders. Rikers are likely disorganized without Moretti cuz we arrested her

[torn shoal]

hyenas are still a threat most of the council is gone but not all, outcast are still not to be messed with even tho they lost a lot, true sons are allied with bt so still a major pb

[ashen jungle]

Unless they pull another "ferro/conley" (which I kinda doubt), then yeah the older factions are in need of some new folks in charge.

[torn shoal]

in order of power id say outcast are the weakest, then heynas, then true sons, then bt

[slate plank]

The hyenas still have zodiac and mayhem alive, so there is a chance they will comeback from disarray

[torn shoal]

yeah but they lost a lot of leaders + lost bt supplies + president

funny that ellis worked with bt the entire time but bt didnt bother saving him from hyenas

[ashen jungle]

The hyenas lost their main spice grow farms, I think at this point there's not a lot keeping them together.
DUA was a massive loss for them.

It's the equivelant of whatsherface, polar bear mum from the outcasts dying.

[torn shoal]

tbh i think we were supposed to have 2 more stronghold for heynas and true sons like we do for outcasts but it was cut short

[torn shoal]

emeline

[slate plank]

DUA was the hyenas’ BoO, the nightclub in dc was one of their main spice growing spots

[ashen jungle]

You may be forgeting the massive labs within DUA, and JTC actually.

[ashen jungle]

nah i kinda don't think so, the outcast one was so obviously setup and capitol hill/dua not so much.

[torn shoal]

true sons lost everything too, but they ally with bt so they still strong

[slate plank]

From what it seems like with bt and ts, I think the alliance growing weaker cuz nat sees ts not not being useful enough, but then again bt does have somewhat of similar problems

[torn shoal]

they lost even more in the raid

[ashen jungle]

that bit in the first Kelso manhunt when the true sons showed up and then died immediately and nat was just like "sdfsdfsdfsdf", brilliant.

I like that the TS's are just the punching bag of div2 at this point.

[slate plank]

I thought it was black tusk because they keep doing everything possible to take down the division

[torn shoal]

there is a weird dissonance ingame, they are described as super strong early, then after campaing they are described as almost broken, but then the raid + story make them like vilains number 2 in ranking power

[ashen jungle]

The raid is fairly early on and I saw as a final hurrah.

Stranded Tanker manhunt, for the record.

[torn shoal]

yeah but it just feels like i said, content is missing, prob a outcast and hyena raid, and true son + heyna bonus stronghold

its weird we dont even kill all leaders of heynas and they are just non existant while true sons are as strong now as ever

despite their ranks being diminished from all of what happen + lewis betrayal

[slate plank]

Tbf, the remaining hyenas council are trying to survive for the stake of the hyenas’ survival

[torn shoal]

we even true sons have a jail for other factions at some point which is weird cause they sure as fk dont take prisoners, they dont negociate

heynas take prisoners, like president, outcasts yeah they just wanna burn stuff

but out of all of this, heynas should be in better shape than true sons, not in full disarray, and true sons should be in disarray, not in full force

[slate plank]

Tbh though, I wanna see the hyenas more than anything, I wish for a raid directly involving the hyenas

[torn shoal]

the weirder part is that we see an agent die to heynas, not to truesons, so for all we know, true sons just never won a single fight against us

anyway, it just feel like content is missing

[slate plank]

True sons did a mortar strike against the castle settlement before we came in

[torn shoal]

castle wasnt division tho

it was jtf

[slate plank]

Oof I thought they were the same

Does anyone think that we may have to go full rogue after this coming climax mission? We’re already working with Parnell and Hoskins, might as well

Just realized I sound stupid when I said that, course not

[late void]

I think of the original 3 factions true sons were supposed to be the toughest, with military training and equipment giving them a significant tactical advantage. Hyena strength was in part due to the BT equipment supplies, which they lost when BT first invaded.

[zenith spruce]

kinda sad i mean the ts are former national guard and police so they would have some combat knowledge to pass on to new recruits and they had good discipline same with the jtf as well

[zenith spruce]

interrogation i guess

[glad spruce]

I feel like I should mention that BT decided to commit to supplying the Hyenas again, since we've seen them with new hardware during Y6S2 climax mission, when we went to NOA HQ to rescue Theo

[slate plank]

I think that’s just for a little while, I don’t think black tusk are keep doing it for now

[late void]

The Pact after which this season is named might involve continued supplies

[sick lantern]

I know they're the token lowlifes of the setting, but you'd think some gangsters would be smart enough to realise they're getting played

[slate plank]

If you were the hyena in this situation, you would be blind to what’s really going on because the hyenas are desperate to survive after the division weakened them too much

[sick lantern]

and the totally trustworthy PMC who invaded the city and went to war with you... yea they're legit

[torn shoal]

heynas dont have a choice if they wanna exist as a faction they need bt to supply them for as much as possible

if they dont want bt help, they just gonna disolve into very small factions scattered in dc

[glad spruce]

And besides, it doesn't matter if Black Tusk is the spawn of Satan.

Lotsa factions hate the Division, so they'd gladly take any supplies from Black Tusk if it meant putting the hurt on us.

[torn shoal]

im not sure hyenas or any other faction care about morals of bt tbh, i think they care more about their firepower

if any of them had morals, they wouldnt be executing civilians for fun

[wind swan]

So my question is... why are all these ''Agents'' going rouge?.. what are they finding out that is so bad its making them seemingly ''Evil / Bad'' and want to fight the Division?
And... who is controlling Isak?
And why, when and where are they controlling him from? and to what end?

And these rouge agents we were meant to of killed by us... so why are they still alive? 😭

[slate plank]

Rogue agents exists either because they believe in Keener, or they got their own reasons. The game says it itself

For example, Agent Hoskins went rogue because she chose her sister than her duty

[mortal flame]

Hoskins is rogue?

but she killed her sister….

[sick lantern]

not the point

[torn shoal]

she killed her to save a whole refugee camp, the basic trolley dilemma

also the sister was a clearner so

[sleek plover]

yea

she deserved it

[glad spruce]

Then what is the point? That everyone should reject Black Tusk just because?

[sleek plover]

yes

[torn shoal]

why would they reject black tusk ?

they get free firepower from them, and they dont have to do anything in return beside spreading chaos which is what they wanna do in the first place

the point of the faction is to exist and be as powerful as possible, why would they work against that objective

[sick lantern]

that some of the literal gangsters should have the experience or guile to realise they’re being used as pawns by the bigger fish

and you know maybe see the obvious problems to their wellbeing there

[sick lantern]

the continued presence of the black tusk is kinda counter intuitive to the “existing” part for anyone who isn’t part of the black tusk

[late void]

Isn't the hyena philosophy pretty much 'live for today because we might be dead tomorrow'?
They're not really into planning for long term survival.

[sick lantern]

there’s a loading screen note from Div 1 that that’s the ideology of the Rikers/Larae Barrett

“live like kings today because tomorrow’s uncertain”

[late void]

One of the hyena propaganda messages says something very similar

[torn shoal]

yeah they dont care about bt, or anyone really, they just live the moment

if it's not bt fighting them it's someone else so what's the difference when bt give them guns

[frosty bluff]

The Undergrounders probably aren’t supplied by BT —most likely shanking people and stealing their guns.

[glad spruce]

4 days left till the Climax mission

[torn shoal]

they arent a major faction tho, they are a very small one

[sick lantern]

but the BT ARE fighting them

/were

and will be as soon as they stop being useful pawns

[glad spruce]

Again, what's your point?

It doesn't matter to the Hyenas or the Outcasts that Black Tusk treats them like pawns. They hate the Division more than anything

They'd sooner die than ever work with us

[sick lantern]

I'm not asking for them to work with us

"It doesn't matter to the Hyenas that Black Tusk treats them like pawns." i find that incredibly hard to believe

proliferating the Black Tusk's objectives will lead to the downfall of the Hyenas
like, do they think they can beat the BT? or did they become a suicide cult when i wasn't looking

i was under the impression they had some degree of self preservation... wanting power and survival and whatnot
not to be disposable mooks for the guys who invaded the city with intent to wipe them out

[late void]

^

[wicked gorge]

I wanna know why the outcast even sided with BT. Hyenas need them to rebuild the council, true sons cause of Anderson. I didn’t think the Outcast would work with them due to their military status and somewhat blaming them for the quarantine

[sick lantern]

from The World of The Division:
“Goals: Survival, Decadence

The Hyenas are a loosely organized gang of hedonistic scavengers who rely on violence and intimidation to prey on struggling civilian encampments. These opportunistic raiders have no greater agenda other than to exploit weakness and vulnerability, and thrive by capitalizing on the misfortune of others.

Origins
As civilized society collapsed in the greater metropolitan area of Washington D.C., citizens who gravitated to acts of depredation—stealing, plundering, raiding, pillaging, ambushing, double-dealing, etc.—to survive began to band together into gangs. Some named themselves and claimed turf, similar to how youth gangs operate. But most were amorphous groupings whose membership and leadership shifted from day to day.

As the brutal, anarchic winter turned into spring, six larger gangs rose to prominence in the shattered streets north of Constitution Avenue. For weeks, their vicious turf battles destabilized entire neighborhoods and terrorized the surviving citizenry. But in February, these six gangs called an interpack truce that led to the creation of a so-called “freedom council” with each gang represented (many lesser gangs exist but are not represented).

This council has declared a series of purposes that they’ve termed “freedoms”:

The freedom to conduct “business” (plunder) within the gang’s sphere of influence without interference or consequence.
The freedom to accumulate resources of value for the gang’s own consumption as well as for bartering opportunities.
The freedom to prevent enemies (i.e., any organization not designated a party to the council agreement) from acquiring control of any turf within the northern district.

The council also made one final declaration. The leaders created an umbrella designation for all six gangs, calling themselves the Hyenas.“

i know it says “hedonism” and “decadence” but it’s an overstatement to call it their sole thing to the point of being willing to die for it

the presence of the Black Tusk infringes on all of those “freedoms”

[sick lantern]

these aren’t the Rikers who go around blowing up a power plant in winter while they’re still inside lmao

[torn shoal]

cause they get lot of weapons from it

i dont understand whats hard to get, they need weapon, bt has weapon, they agree to get supplied by bt in secret in exchange for some favors that dont cost them anything

they get stronger this way instead of disappearing into oblivion and dying cause they cant fight anyone

[torn shoal]

like there is no viable alternative, either accept to get weapons from bt and maybe live another day, maybe not, or refuse, and just die right here and now

[tepid ibex]

they do it for the love of the game, madmen

[surreal hearth]

I’ve never seen such a ridiculous organization, engage in a nasty proxy war against the division

Nat at this rate is becoming a literal farcry villain

[tepid ibex]

praise the mother

[slate plank]

The rikers bounties are the funniest thing cuz why are they refusing to eat vegetables

[torn shoal]

yeah the bounty recap is usually a fun joke and I love it

[slate plank]

Other factions bounties: terrorizing citizens and executing them

Rikers: throwing a tantrum over some missing pen or something

Rikers being at the power plant in countdown made it funny cuz no one knows why they are there but they triggered a lockdown unintentionally

[frosty bluff]

I went to go check mine and apparently they stole two swingsets from a local school

And by Jove. They're gonna do the GTAIV swingset glitch. Must be prevented at all costs before they realize they can teleport into a wall

[glad spruce]

Rikers are just haters for the love of the game

[torn shoal]

understandable, the prison is hell and u can go there even if not convicted

[surreal hearth]

I killed a hyena name ICE literally

[mortal flame]

Remember the Bullet King….. and Queen…… F in the chat lol

Anyway, so does anyone know when Division 3 might be taking place? (Timeline wise) Is there still story beats the Massive team are still pushing out with the BT rearming all of the factions in DC and beyond?

[proven escarp]

They got alex :(

[glad spruce]

No one knows cuz it's still in development

[mortal flame]

I meant the story up to this point…. Like we’re in March of 2013 or something like that…. Spring, Summer…… maybe Winter since they said something about Survival mode coming back

[glad spruce]

We're currently in November, year who really knows.

[torn shoal]

they didnt say survival would come back, they said new content would drop with survivor theme, thats it
also ingame we're in autumn
and div 3 is barely in the beginning stage, nothing is done or leaked

[ashen jungle]

They also said that "survivors" would not just be survival again.
but this is the lore channnel, so let's keep it focused.

[surreal hearth]

There’s a suspicious hunter that’s been making miniature Warhound recently

Those mini warhounds are not black tusk designed it’s hunter design

A legendary hunter by the name of the Houndsman

[torn shoal]

all warhounds are bt, hunters are also bt, this is just the halloween event

[surreal hearth]

Ah a hunter BT hybrid then

[torn shoal]

there is no hybrids, hunters are fully within bt ranks

[sinful mauve]

His Blind, a BTSU hunter using BTSU stuff, prob a rookie since he only has 2 watches

same goes to Lumen. The guy literary wearing an open jacket with half Hunter vest. You would never seen that type of hunter before. Or either the guy is a part time hunter lol

[cold bramble]

Wait theres a hunter with access to btsu tech? Interesting

I’m guessing it’s someone close to Nat or other higher ups?

[cold bramble]

Best guess is wherever div 2 ends or around there anyway

[torn shoal]

all hunters have access to everything bt has

and hunter gear is far better than everyone beside anna maybe

[cold bramble]

Ooh we need that 👀

[torn shoal]

we have anna thanks to keener and theo now

[ashen jungle]

Well, not thanks to Keener.

Keener notably doesn't know how to change the timer on a microwave.

[torn shoal]

no i mean thanks to theo for unlocking anna and keener for giving her to us

[frosty bluff]

Keener god rolls speech checks and can basically persuade someone to go out and buy him food

Well

For the most part. He’s definitely got a cost where anything below nat 20 is an auto-fail. For example, he couldn’t get god rolls on Mack

[slate plank]

Can you believe Aaron Keener went from being some future trader to being one of the most dangerous if not THE most dangerous rogue agent?

Theo Parnell was just some guy who’s dad is a government official

[ashen jungle]

They both passed the SHD Agents tests, which means that no, they weren't just a futures trader and government official's son.

We like to joke that they're useless, but they have actual training in this stuff, they have to.

[frosty bluff]

Also

Aaron Keener wasn’t some futures trader. He genuinely has quite a bit of military experience

[ashen jungle]

He was actually a future's trader.