#lore-and-universe

1 messages · Page 13 of 1

orchid kettle
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Like I get it, in the real world, the US armed militant forces that later turned their arms against the US

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but in that situation, it's always like a proxy war between the US and Russia or China

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and when they pull out, so do we, and we leave the locals with the check

gilded mason
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All members of ONI flunked history canonically. 😩

orchid kettle
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and thats what gets them pissed

scarlet quiver
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But wasnt that the point of the story? To show some of the grey area?

orchid kettle
scarlet quiver
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Well, thats true.

gilded mason
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Very smart.

orchid kettle
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its all just a really convoluted way to make Elites enemies again in Halo 4

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the Elites' supposed motivation for hating humanity is pretty silly too

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"Grrr, they just have TOO many colonies!"

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"I'm gonna go to my Sangheili colony and raise an army to kill them!"

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even though surely, human space is like a speck compared to the Covenant empire

fair hazel
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Human space was bigger than some species

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And it’s way more then understandable that there would be hostile factions still

orchid kettle
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I mean, not really. The Elites are probably feeling a whole lot more hatred towards Brutes and Prophets in a post Halo 3 world. Jackals were only ever in it for the money to begin with, which is why they got along surprisingly well with the humans at the Rubble.

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The Grunts are sweethearts

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At most, maybe Brutes who were still Covenant Loyalists

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like Castor

scarlet quiver
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It makes me think, even if humanity actually did colonize space, we would still be fighting each other.
Always will be factions.
You cannot unify humanity. Even if you found a common ground, there will always be someone creating a faction that disagrees.
So, are we assuming all alien species will have this same trait?

orchid kettle
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but again, they'd probably have their hands full trying to fend off the Sangheili

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since outside of the Covenant, they probably dont really have their own space empire to fall back on

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40 years ago, they all came from one planet

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so I doubt there's even that many Brutes compared to humans or Elites

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Nah the real prize is trying to snatch up as much Covenant territory and tech you can

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Probably a lot more cases of human hating alien groups than the other way around

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I think at best, you'd have situations where a forerunner artifact is on some backwater human world, and some Covenant remnant warlord doesn't quite care how many civilians he has to kill to get it

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But that's not really like, racially motivated

scarlet quiver
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Ug, i need a map that shows where different species colonies are in the galaxy in relation to each other. Are their places where our "backwater human worlds" are actually in a common space for another species?

orchid kettle
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i dont think so

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unless of course

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you consider Catalog's idea that Harvest is really only 12 light years from Earth

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for reference, Reach is 10.5

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and in Contact Harvest, the whole idea is that the Covenant were hanging out on the fringes of their territory when they ran into a human freighter carrying melons

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so you end up in this situation where their "fringes"

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would actually be in the heart of human space

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even though Harvest is supposedly so far away from any other planet that it takes two weeks to get to another world

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with Madrigal being the closet

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... and Madrigal is 89 light years from Earth

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which has spawned the idea that slipspace is actually super messed up and its not "same as normal space, just crumbled up like a ball of paper"

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and sometimes if slipspace feels like it, it could make you take ten thousand years to go two feet

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... all because we can't be bothered to just change the name of the system Harvest is in

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because that system exists in the real world, and we know its only 12 light years away

versed helm
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who wants to do duos with me in halo infinite

gaunt oakBOT
# versed helm who wants to do duos with me in halo infinite

If you're looking for other Spartans to join you in battle, check out our LFGs:

#lfg-competitive – For ranked/competitive matchmaking
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#lfg-other – For firefight, spartan ops, etc
#lfg-español – Para jugadores hispanohablantes en cualquier categoría de juego
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Don't forget to check out #old-lfg-and-voice-chat-info to learn about the !lfg bot, how to use it, and how to create your own voice channels.

elder needle
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Alright guys, I have a question for you

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About what time in universe did the public learn about the existence of Spartans?

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Or when did the propaganda about them start?

last anchor
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I think theres a date, it was around 2549 I think. Thats the official moment ONI went public with them at least.

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Very late in the war

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Rumors spread before that of course

orchid kettle
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Yeah I get the sense that they're pretty much known about way sooner than that

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Delgado knows a Spartan-centric nursery rhyme back in like, 2534 or whenever

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and you got Red Team out and about in Arcadia as civilians evacuate

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I think once they got their armor, and start defending planets from massive invasions

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missions where regular marines and civilians get to gawk at them openly

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no way is it a secret for long

last anchor
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OFFICIALLY they weren't revealed, but like I said rumors spread

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ONI Section 2 controls almost all UNSC media. If they dont want you to know about something, you wont know

honest plume
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how did the unsc know who the banished were, did the spirit of fire manage to send a transmission or something

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just popped into my head and couldnt remember them doing so

dense falcon
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The Banished didn't originate from the Ark conflict, but they were a somewhat hidden group. There was only one indirect mention of Atriox on a Rion Forge book, and there's also a mention of them in Halo Retribution, and it made them look like a consolidated group ONI had had its sights on for a bit.

honest plume
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oh i thought that was our first encounter with anyone in that group

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on the ark^

tropic forge
last anchor
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ONI had been keeping an eye on the Banished since they first showed up, raiding UNSC and Covenant battlefield of the War. They were just another splinter group until recently.
And even then technically they're only the most dangerous of them because they found a Halo. Theres plenty more random splinter groups squabbling with each other right now

eager ibex
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I just picture some human telling an elite about boxing

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And the elite's just like

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"Oh that sounds cool i wanna try that" or something

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How would that even work tho

native burrow
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the elite would dominate

carmine sleet
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Definitely against normal humans

native burrow
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yeah, average elite would pummel average human in a fair fight

fossil eagle
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I could take an elite.

wild heath
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hey all I've got a question- sorry about the potential wall of text

I'm currently taking two of my friends who prior to this have no experience with the franchise through Halo and so far we've completed CE, 2 and 3. We'll be playing ODST next followed by Reach, which is my personal favorite campaign in the series. They're both very into it so far and I wanna ensure that they get as good of an experience as possible.

I wanted to ask if we ever actually learn about the history of the Spartan program in the games? Do we learn anything about Halsey/the insurrectionists in the game's plotlines prior to Reach's release? I want them to at least have basic knowledge of these subjects going INTO Reach since the insurrection attacks and Halsey herself are important to that game

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And if this is not the case, how should I go about explaining this to them? I'm not exactly familiar with the Halo EU but I am definitely interested in it

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(I should note that I have actually not played ODST yet myself, so if things are for some reason explained there, then oops)

hybrid crypt
wild heath
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gotcha

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I’ll probably find a few things and maybe make a little PowerPoint thing and explain some myself that I think may be important to know, ty

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Because I think the stuff involving Halsey in Reach definitely would hit better if you already know her lol

hybrid crypt
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Yeah lol

hybrid crypt
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Are more spartan types than just the I II and III

latent junco
livid anvil
latent junco
slim thorn
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I don't think we'll have Spartan V for a while

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Since every new Spartan Program must gain approval from Jun

wild heath
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how old is jun now?

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do we have any idea

boreal bane
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36

flat kernel
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Only 36? Huh, I kinda assumed he was older

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Oh wait he’s a spartan III they’re youngish

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And cryosleep is a thing

boreal bane
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Yeah he was born 2524, Infinite takes place 2560 (from memory)

solar nest
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what are the sections of ONI

solar nest
radiant copper
solar nest
hybrid crypt
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Isnt master chief in his 40s or something

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Or 50s

radiant copper
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I think he is 49

solar nest
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Google says 49 during Halo Infinite

hybrid crypt
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Dang, even with the metal bones, how does he not have arthritis

solar nest
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Lol cryo helps with that maybe

radiant copper
solar nest
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True, probably a mix of things

hybrid crypt
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I do have another ques6tion, is chief working with the unsc again? If so, werent they just going after him in halo 5 for trying to get cortana

radiant copper
solar nest
solar nest
hybrid crypt
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Ah okay, i was just confused about the blip between 5 and infinite

solar nest
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Yeah, it isn’t super clear

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I’m pretty sure they were only after him in 5 because they were worried he would help Cortana or something

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& then Locke tried to forcefully take her & Chief ain’t like that too much

hybrid crypt
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I know that

solar nest
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Yeah, I guess that’s why Locke & company aren’t in Infinite. Cuz their job was over

hybrid crypt
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Yeah, also because infinite is a new timeline for halo

slim thorn
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tbh, I want to know Roland's fate inside UNSC Infinity. Furthermore, I'm eager to see Alpha-Nine at 07

solar nest
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Fr

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Also about Locke’s helmet, where can you find that?

slim thorn
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If Locke's survive, he'll be like Palmer at Halo 4, in which never wear helmet during the campaign.

solar nest
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That’s a pretty cool detail, never noticed that before

hybrid crypt
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I like the details that infinite has

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Theres more lore in a sense to find

solar nest
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Very true

sick current
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In Halo Reach how did Halsey not know that Noble 6 was a Spartan III?

solar nest
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when did she say that

gilded mason
honest plume
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is rosenda alive

gilded mason
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As far as we know

novel quiver
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Every other race > Humanity

gilded mason
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This is true

hazy shadow
sick current
# solar nest elaborate?

SPOILER WARNING In the Halo book ghosts of onyx, which happens after Halo reach, Halsey discovers the Spartan III training program, and she didn't know about the III's, even though she met one, Noble 6, on Reach.

solar nest
unique rune
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All except for Jorge

solar nest
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Oh ok

sick current
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My bad

heady geyser
steep ether
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I’m guessing that’s why she probably assumed they were all just a fireteam of spartan II’s

unique rune
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I mean, she didn't.

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She knew that one of her Spartans was on a team with Spartans that weren't hers.
Halsey could only guess at what they were because she wasn't aware of additional programs continuing or expanding her work, Jorge's presence had nothing to do with it.

solar nest
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fair

heady geyser
heady geyser
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Why haven’t the unsc give halsey a replace arm

hazy shadow
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Because they blame her for all their inhumane tendencies.

unique rune
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I thought she had a robotic prosthetic at some point after H5 but I might just be misremembering

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Yeah, she's got one now.

gilded mason
fossil eagle
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You know she gatekeeps the Spartan-II program.

unique rune
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what

last anchor
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Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss

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Some kind of weird meme I think

hybrid crypt
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She do be gaslight gatekeep gurlboss

upper coyote
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Can we talk about the fact that Canonically, John Whooped the Banished's Butt in 1 day. A singular day, he took out like 25% of their command structure and HQ

Can you imagine the Banished thoughts, of
"The greatest of human heroes defeated"

Only for the guy to show back up 6mo later and ruin your entire military dominance in a singular day?

fossil breach
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Did Daisy train with John?

gilded mason
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Yes

fossil breach
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Rewatching Halo Legends, don’t know much else ab her

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Ty

obsidian thistle
abstract wren
abstract wren
slim thorn
obsidian thistle
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Cant say if any off-screen events happen. Every time you capture a FOB is a moment where a "break" can happen for example very easy.

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Who knows, maybe days pass, maybe theres a deeper story to John-117 hunting the HVTs.

abstract wren
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except we already know that thefirst half of the campaign (before Pelican Down) is just 6/8 hours...

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and that the end is the 31st so 4 days of campaign

scarlet quiver
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Does that include ||the end where the Weapon mentions they have been gone for 3 days||?

obsidian thistle
unique rune
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Yeah, only one of the FOBs is required for progression, the other FOBs, HVTs, Banished installations, etc. are all optional and could be argued to take place after the events of the main campaign.

abstract wren
abstract wren
obsidian thistle
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I mean theres an argument to be made that as there is a post-game. Everything could be done then.

There is also an argument that after Pelican Down (assuming the Premier trailer is held) that time can be more loose till the 3 day jump

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IE we are essentially in a weird 2012 Spartan Ops date period again. Where we know nothing bar a start date and events happened (with some variants)

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Except thats everything about Infinite right now

upper coyote
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It is stated that The MC was picked up on the 28th

And they reappeared on the 31st (three days gone)

Both confirmed dates

radiant copper
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So he did everything in less than a day? I call bs

unique rune
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He does the main campaign stuff in about a day, supposedly

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Whether or not that includes reclaiming all the FOBs, taking down all the HVTs, rescuing all the Marine squads, disabling all of the side quest Banished structures, etc. is debatable and could be placed after defeating the Harbinger.

last anchor
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I like to think he did all of it in one day. The man was on drugs with how fast he moved

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Its why the Banished were knocked over so easily; by the time word go through their communication system (slowed massively by his destruction of the Horn of Abolition) that the Chief was out and looking for heads, it was too late. He was already there.

abstract wren
abstract wren
empty cradle
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Hey, can anyone tell me what happened between halo 5 and infinite? I just played five for the first time the other day and I’m confused. How come they just forgot about the created war?

abstract wren
empty cradle
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Wait what

abstract wren
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welcome to the new scenario

empty cradle
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So, you’re telling me that they just forgot about the fact that the galaxy was taken over by a super powerful immortal ai, the flood reappeared, the banished started attacking places, and all that happened was halo wars 2?

abstract wren
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The only thing we know is that they were some guerilla.
John and the Blue Team came back to Reach too to get Halsey's clone's brains.
And in the same time Atriox came back from the Ark with the portal of Reach (seen in a multiplayer map of Halo:Reach and with cristal seen in First Strike)
One of the brain was made into a IA : The Weapon to stop Cortana

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That's pretty much it
What Osiris Team did is irrelevant as in the end it doesn't do anything in Infinite

empty cradle
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That’s dumb

unique rune
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Making an assumption either way is kind of a bad idea IMO and should just be left inconclusive for now

abstract wren
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it's the game, no info on some kind of part done after the 31st

unique rune
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Yeah and there’s nothing concrete saying that he didn’t leave the side objectives until later

empty cradle
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The actual story of infinite probably took place over only a few days, but the battle over the installation lasted months, so technically from the beginning cutscene to the final boss fight, the game lasted 6 months

abstract wren
empty cradle
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That makes sense then

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Haven’t played that yet

abstract wren
unique rune
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It’s canonically vague for the time being and assuming one absolute position is true is probably not the way to go

abstract wren
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Riiight, if you want to

abstract wren
unique rune
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There’s literally zero canon evidence for either, just that at some point the objectives were dealt with

abstract wren
unique rune
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It is factual that he went through the primary campaign event sequence of taking down Atriox’s Chosen, liberated one FOB, dealt with the Tower, etc. in that time span, sure.

abstract wren
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primary campaign event sequence -> it's gameplay !

unique rune
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What is left vague is whether or not he killed all of the HVTs and dealt with other Banished facilites like the Forge of Teash before or after the defeat of the Harbinger

obsidian thistle
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Actually... nothing says it was 3 days after the 28th... 🤔

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Kinda something I noticed...

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For all we know John took a shower break at a FOB. (Original release The Flood reference)

abstract wren
obsidian thistle
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I need to consider stuff from a Wiki pov aha!

abstract wren
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yeah well, it says in the last level that it's been 3 days

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Not my fault if you always want to complicate things...

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Especially with the state of 343 and the scenario of Infinite and the Universe. They don't have time to really make things coherent

upper coyote
abstract wren
upper coyote
upper coyote
abstract wren
upper coyote
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All boss battles from the main story happened on the 28th

Our boy Escharum literally saw the legend suddenly appear on a ship then got blasted by him in less then 23hr later

upper coyote
unique rune
abstract wren
unique rune
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Whatever the game treats as optional objectives are undefined until we get some other material to act as proper reference

abstract wren
upper coyote
unique rune
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Canonically he does all of them but we don’t know in what order or when

unique rune
# abstract wren problem is : there is no main story inuniverse. It doesn't exist

I can’t tell if you’re being deliberately obtuse but that is not the point that I am making.

There are specific events from Infinite’s campaign that we do know about when they happened and in what order. These are the “main” linear missions that move the campaign plot forward.

The parts that we don’t know about are the “side” objectives because they do not actively progress the campaign plot and so can be completed in basically any order at any given time with some minor limitations. This leaves the specific “canonical” version of the events of Infinite’s campaign somewhat ambiguous.

upper coyote
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so he did some on May 28th but prob the rest afterwards

radiant copper
unique rune
# upper coyote The only confirmed bits we get is ```John-117 rescues the captured Marines, tak...

Yes and what I’m saying is that game canon generally assumes that anything the player can do canonically is done.

John finds all of the Terminals in 3 and 4, the Rookie finds all of the Audio Logs and kills the cop guy in ODST, B312 finds all of the data pads in Reach, and so on.

So we can (probably) assume the same for John finding all of the audio logs, Forerunner artifacts, saving all the Marines, reclaiming all the FOBs, disabling all of the Banished facilities, destroying all of the comm towers, and eliminating all of the HVTs.

The issue is that there is no official material that establishes a canonical timeline for all of these and nothing can be definitively said because as of right now it is entirely dictated by player choice.

upper coyote
# radiant copper Thought it was October

On OCT 27th - John-117 was accidentally declared KIA on this date by ONI Section II Press Secretary Lieutenant Penelope Boren, who was meant to say "2558" instead of "2560".

upper coyote
obsidian thistle
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Catalog! 🙂

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It did Forum posts around 2016 our time (in-universe it was concurrent with Escalation)

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Technically every fictional collectable was found (barring H2A, H5G, and Infinite which we have no idea)

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So John-117 found the CEA, H3, and H4 terminals.
The Rookie found the ODST audio logs.
And B312 found the Data Drops.

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(Means the non-29 Audio Log cinematic in Data Hive is non-canon if you want the only real implication this has aha)

last anchor
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Makes sense that Rookie found everything. I DISTINCTLY doubt he hesitate on pulling the trigger though.

upper coyote
upper coyote
upper coyote
unique rune
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He might not have necessarily known, all he did was recover the data for later analysis.

obsidian thistle
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In terms of Halo 4. The original version is how it works. He finds the terminal but cant watch it.

CEA just has him find them. We have no idea if he watches em. (Probably not)

obsidian thistle
# upper coyote Could you elaborate on this?

In regards to this...
In ODST.
If you have under 29 Audio Logs unlocked, the Rookie aims his weapon at the Engineer during Data Hive.
If you have 29 Audio Logs, you gain access to the 30th, and if you collect it... Dare then aims her weapon at the Engineer, and the Rookie whistles to it.

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As we know the Rookie collects the audio logs. The second version is canon.

upper coyote
upper coyote
upper coyote
obsidian thistle
heady geyser
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And you don’t want to mess with them lol

upper coyote
upper coyote
orchid kettle
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I mean, if Chief ever talked about what the Librarian AI told him, probably

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in fact I think the UNSC knows what the Librarian AI is, since thats a point in Spartan Ops.

orchid kettle
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that kinda makes Halsey the Librarian's ultimate tool

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because Halsey makes all of that

upper coyote
orchid kettle
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It is pretty funny how they went and made a book trilogy about how evil halsey is

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while also releasing a game that explains that Halsey was just controlled by fate

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and I guess that means when she realizes she was wrong in First Strike, that's her breaking free of her genetic programming?

upper coyote
sudden tide
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are there any important 13 digit numbers in halo lore?

hybrid crypt
sudden tide
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theres a 13 digit code

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most likely about halo

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as an easter egg

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in another game

dense falcon
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Can you share the actual code and not give small clues?

sudden tide
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thats the point we dont know the code

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the keypad activates when you say "mantle of responsibility"

dense falcon
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What game are you talking about?

sudden tide
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its a roblox questi want to solve

hybrid crypt
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Ohhhh, itd probably be a combination of halo digits that are important like 343 and 117

sudden tide
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john halo, pelican 216, the weapon's serial and installation 07

hybrid crypt
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That could be it

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You could also look it up

sudden tide
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look what up?

dense falcon
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Look up on Google what the number is

unique rune
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I would laugh if it turns out to be something mundane like the ISBN-13 for The Fall of Reach

sudden tide
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there are forerunner symbols all over the map with coordinates that lead to the keypad

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you need to say mantle of responsibility to actiavte the keypad

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and its a 13 digit code

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any ideas?

versed helm
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what are you guys talking about

icy yoke
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Does UNSC have equivalent to inertial dampening systems for sublight propulsion.

fossil eagle
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The UNSC has technology that can generate gravity, so I assume they've got inertial dampeners working off of the same principles.

last anchor
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Warfleet mentioned something like that.

onyx cedar
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Is there anything that mentions what happened to Locke after halo 5?

carmine sleet
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Halo Bad Blood features him in a minor role since that book is mainly focused on Buck and Alpha 9

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There's also his helmet and chestplate on Hyperius' shoulder in Infinite but I wouldn't use that as confirmation of his fate since the only one claiming he was killed is the Propaganda Grunt, who isn't a reliable narrator

last anchor
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And according to the audio logs, he was off-ship just before the arrived at Zeta Halo.

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Alongside Blue Team.

carmine sleet
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Yeah

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Honestly, my guess is he got into a fight with Hyperius and while his armour was damaged to the point his chestplate and helmet were removed, he was still able to escape

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And Hyperius doesn't exactly strike me as the Brute who would care if his trophies came from an actually dead Spartan or not

onyx cedar
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Thanks yall

last anchor
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I like to think Locke pulled a Palmer and used his stupid expensive helmet as a bludgening tool.
Hyperious thought he had him on the ropes, Locke whips his helmet off and bonks the Brute on the skull.
While dazed, Locke ditches his damaged chest plate and helmet and peaces out.

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Hyperious calls it a win and takes the armor bits...only to get absolutely facestomped by Chief several months later after 117 rolls in on a fully upgraded Grappleshot while humming the Warthog Run aggressively under his breath

carmine sleet
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I was thinking Chief stole his Chopper and ran him over with it

last anchor
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Was that Hyperious's chopper? Or was that his brother. I can never keep the two of them distinct.

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They're shown up as big tough Spartan killers and then Chief just frieghtrains them both

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S-IIs jsut built different

carmine sleet
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It was Hyperius in the Chopper, his brother is carrying the scrap cannon

empty cradle
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Hey, I’ve been replaying reach and whilst flying in a falcon in the mission: winter contingency, I saw a bright blue and green swirl in the sky. Idk what it was, can anyone explain?

hybrid crypt
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I think the northern lights, or something similar

tiny oracle
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what do spartans 3/2 do in their free time

solar nest
tiny oracle
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play games? yeah me and cheif played cod on a Sunday night

solar nest
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lol probably games like chess or other strategy games

tiny oracle
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i doubt

solar nest
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yeah idk they're just people so

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physically enhanced people without proper childhoods mind you

tiny oracle
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oh yeah

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dawg?

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wow didnt know this server is for little kid

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and they deleted my comment lmaao

boreal bane
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Don't bypass the filter please caboose :)

tiny oracle
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no

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how is the feces a bad word?

boreal bane
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History of people being weird and inappropriate with certain terms

tiny oracle
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ok

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that doesnt make sense but ok lol

last anchor
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Also, Spartan-IIs dont do free time. If theres a pause, they're training, prepping for the next mission or probably in cryo

heady geyser
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Or grab a quick bite to eat

tawny fox
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They probably have no concept of fun and recreational activities

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Being kept from experiencing any form of it whatsoever during their childhoods and what not. Fighting and combat is all they know

heady geyser
icy yoke
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Spartan II usually it's mission prep, chow time or cryogenic sleep. With their service record every II by 2550s is over 30. Not old but still. The purpose of Spartan III program was to replace them. Spartan IV have free time...because their consenting volunteers and have had family lives before. Technologies ease the physical burdens they have to undergo.

fossil eagle
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I wonder what retired Spartan Maria-062 gets up to in her civilian life. Aside from raise her children, of course.

icy yoke
#

Question: do UNSC ships have gravitic augmented drives. Even with sublight fusion thrusters the laws of inertia state the ship would need thrust in opposite direction to match the impulse they initially produced. Since the ship has no engines in opposite direction.... how do vessels come to a standstill, stop or steer

unique rune
#

if there was an answer to this surely it would be somewhere on Halopedia

#

(this is code for: there is no answer for this question because Halo generally doesn't bother with details like this)

onyx cedar
#

Is it possible for a human to impregnate a sangheili

#

or the reverse

gilded mason
#

Are you legitimately asking, or

icy yoke
#

Asking for a ...friend

unique rune
#

I’m gonna need you to think back to some basic biology stuff about how DNA and chromosomes work

tawny fox
#

Don’t Sangheili reproduce in a similar manner to lizards? So no this would not be possible at all if that’s the case

#

I don’t know if that’s ever been fully explored but I remember seeing that in a lore video

unique rune
#

They’re a saurian species that evolved in a star system many lightyears apart from humanity with no identifiable common ancestors.

So maybe it technically wouldn’t be impossible for, ah, reproductive compatibility just by pure random chance of coincidentally similar evolution, but it would be so unlikely that the UNSC would’ve had better odds winning the war without Sangheili assistance than any actually realized… erm. Hybrids.

tawny fox
#

Yeah to me it just seemed next to impossible for such a thing because they’re so drastically different from a human physically. Having no features that even remotely resemble one

unique rune
#

Like I don’t think we can definitively even say if DNA composition in former Covenant client species and other life in the galaxy is the same of terrestrial life. Maybe they’ve got a different set of nitrogenous bases forming their DNA wholly separate from the A/T/C/G found on Earth.

tawny fox
#

If anything I would think the jiralhanea would be waay closer to a human anatomy wise

unique rune
#

Jiralhanae would be more similar, yeah, given that they’re mammalian. Though they’re officially considered to be more akin to bears than humans and other primates.

tawny fox
unique rune
#

343 could obviously write something into canon but like

  1. why
  2. no
tawny fox
#

Exactly lol

fossil eagle
#

Human beings can't reproduce with anything on Earth except for other humans and our (now extinct) intelligent hominids, like the Neanderthal. It doesn't make any sense for there to be any biological compatibility between us and an extraterrestrial alien species that evolved under different circumstances and without any shared biological heritage.

cobalt quiver
#

Could Mark IV Gen III happen in canon? What would change about it compared to Mark VII Gen III?

fossil eagle
#

As a desperate retrofit of mothballed suits by a UNSC that's running low on resources or incapable of utilising or accessing their manufacturing facilities? It might be plausible.

obsidian thistle
#

Mark V stuff was used on GEN2. And Mark V/B in Infinite is essentially just the same suit updated to GEN3 standards.

Imagine it like computers.

#

With effort you can upgrade old ones via hardware and software so they perform better.

empty cradle
#

Also why are sabres two seater, I’m playing on the long night of solice and Jorge isn’t doing much in the second seat

last anchor
#

One pilot. One Weapon Support Officer/Radio Intercept Officer, depending on who you talk too.
Same as most US Navy fighters for quite some time.
F-4 Phantom, F-14 Tomcat, F/A-18...E? I think?
Presumably though the Saber controls singularly its actually Jorge overseeing the missiles, if the split is like it usually is.

empty cradle
#

That makes sense, thanks

orchid kettle
#

Bad Blood I think makes the best case for the Created plotline as a viable story thread

#

But perhaps its better off as a book than a game

#

Since it seems like a lot of the intrigue would come from negotiating with AIs and other factions, and living in a hyper surveillance society

#

Like, probably the biggest difference between the Created and any other enemy faction is how you can surrender to them and they probably won't kill you on sight

#

but that wouldn't really be felt in an FPS as much

onyx cedar
#

This is the last question I have on this topic but can humans impregnate brutes?

gilded mason
#

They are aliens. Not even from Earth.

onyx cedar
#

But like couldn't there be some science thing that'd help?

gilded mason
onyx cedar
#

I'm desperate

dense falcon
#

DNA isn't compatible between species, that is a biological law

onyx cedar
#

I'm gonna break the law

dense falcon
#

You can put two gametes from two different species together and they won't interact

dense falcon
onyx cedar
#

Yall are awesome for actually responding to this salute

dense falcon
#

Please don't.

prisma ridge
#

But jimmy rings

last anchor
#

Neg.

prisma ridge
#

Jimmy rings moment

last anchor
#

Actually come to think of it, would we as lore nerds consider the Halo we know now as a "Seattle thing"?

#

Since the pre-MS aquisition Halo was very different and what we played on the Xbox back in 2001 didnt settle down until after they were bought by Microsoft, right?

#

And then moved here from wherever Bungie was before? (I think Chicago?)

#

I ask since the other two cool series Ive been looking into a lot recently (Shadowrun and BattleTech) were both written by FASA, who were Seattle originators too if I remember right.
Ergo, I can use all the memes and references from all three as needed

prisma ridge
#

Reach is canon.

#

And uhhh and uhhhhm

carmine sleet
#

I don't think people are questioning whether Reach is canon or not

abstract wren
# last anchor And then moved here from wherever Bungie was before? (I think Chicago?)

They were in Chicago. When they got bought thay went to Redmond not Seattle. Then they went to Kirkland after Halo 2.
For when the game became a FPS there is 2 versions. One from Dean Takahashi who said that it was after they were brought but other sources says it was before (so before June 2000)
Paul Russel said that the real developpment (production) of the game begun in February 2001.

orchid kettle
#

What is the difference between ONI and NAVSPECWAR and or NAVSPECWEP

upper coyote
#

Dirt by Tobias Buckell

Do you guys think what Teller and the other CMA vets did was Ironic?

They wanted to abandon Civilians cause the UNSC did them dirty

But in turn they were doing the Civilians dirty in UNSC uniform?

last anchor
abstract wren
steep ether
unique rune
# dense falcon DNA isn't compatible between species, that is a biological law

I mean that’s not 100% true. Species concept is kind of something we humans came up with to ease classification. With more complex organisms hybridization only really happens between very closely related species and the offspring tend to be inviable.

So it’s not like. Scientifically impossible, since we are dealing with fiction and no one’s actually, y’know, concretely defined it as impossible.
But realistically, statistically it may as well be and also why would you want to write something like that into Halo

deft coral
#

Reach is totally canon. Eric nylon or the publishing company made some changes to the novel years later and apparently worked on the lore for the Legendary Editon

serene kiln
#

Replaying Reach cuz it's probably the best game in the series imo
And I still think it's kinda weird how the Covenant had an entire back-up fleet ready to go within minutes of the Supercarrier blowing
Yeah, I get they're hyper-millitaristic and all that
But they couldn't even take a second to process what just happened?

carmine sleet
#

That fleet didn't know about the one that were at Reach in the first half of the game, they discovered Reach via different means and their timing of their arrival coincided with the destruction of the Long Night

serene kiln
#

Ah
That is some nasty luck

#

One other thing that's been bothering me for a while
What's the difference in purpose between Spirits and Phantoms?
They both see use as transports
They only ever used Spirits in the first game, then only Phantoms from then on
Then in Reach they used both

carmine sleet
#

They're basically just both different types of troop dropships for the Covenant, like how there's more than one type of transport helicopter in the real world

serene kiln
#

Makes sense ye

carmine sleet
#

This isn't even getting into how there's different models of Phantom and Spirit dropships either

#

Since Halo has featured many over the years

#

Like how the Banished have made their own variants

scarlet hinge
#

the Ministry of Fervent Intercession are the ultra-zealots, even by Covenant standards

#

the key here, is that the Covenant doesn't have one military - it's divided into multiple ministries all subordinate to the High Council, and each of these groups maintains their own military

#

consequently, he doesn't quite realise quite how badly he's messed up in overcommitting his forces, and that allows the UNSC to steadily harass him and spread his forces thin

#

by the time you get to Long Night of Solace, VADM Stanforth is doing a lot of work with the UNSC Navy to probe the Covenant fleet in orbit and open up a gap, and Rho is starting to panic

#

this is the point at which the High Council tells him that they're not happy with his lack of progress, and is sending a fleet led by the Ministry of Resolution to come and take over from where Rho's failed

#

in many ways, Rho was bricking himself around the time of UPPER CUT not because of what the UNSC is doing, but because of what's going to happen when the Covenant come to relieve him

#

as it happens, the Ministry of Resolution reinforcement/relievement fleet shows up minutes after Rho's apparent death aboard Long Night of Solace, and consequently they begin invasion operations while Rho's XO begins to try and corrall the remains of the Fleet of Valiant Prudence into a cohesive fighting unit

quaint pollen
#

just finished the ferret Team trilogy and i did not expect the ending 😭

wispy prawn
#

😭

quaint pollen
wispy prawn
#

It’ll probably have a continuation but it wont be the same

quaint pollen
#

i dont have money to get the next book until friday 😦

dense falcon
#

From the new intel drop, only the last part of the deathbed confession is something new, isn't it?

quaint pollen
#

havent looked at it yet

wispy prawn
obsidian thistle
#

Certainly puts a few things into question regarding some external lore.

last anchor
#

NEW LORE?!

#

Holy crap!

#

Oh man, this explains A LOT

waxen anchor
#

did they ever cement how jun and halsey got off reach?

#

oh wow nvm this is exactly that lol

#

oh so they just kind of hand wave it, like saying he could've taken any one of the semi-canon ideas?

neon heath
abstract wren
abstract wren
waxen anchor
#

@abstract wren elaborate?

#

i thought it was either he climbed a space elevator or stayed behind after putting halsey in a bunker

abstract wren
#

I'm talking about Halsey not Jun. We still don't know about Jun because Reach didn't care about the lore

#

Now we only know he left the base before Spartans-II came

waxen anchor
#

What’d Halsey do to survive

abstract wren
#

Nothing, she got picked up by Spartan-II of the Red Team

#

Time to read the books ^^

waxen anchor
#

I have read them

#

just been a while

#

Was it in the comics or in books?

#

since i havent read the comics, but i’ve read all the books

gilded mason
#

First Strike

waxen anchor
#

mhk, thanks

abstract wren
#

well time to re-read them then ^^ Always a pleasure to reread books with more insight

quaint pollen
waxen anchor
#

Sure ill take that @quaint pollen

#

I have all the books, read them all mostly just once

#

Ghosts of Onyx was my favorite, although Kilo-5 did make me tear up at the end

zealous pecan
#

Are odst still a thing because I’m pretty sure they’re not in halo 4 5 or infinite

red wren
gusty star
#

Can people just look up stuff before coming here

zealous pecan
#

He’s a Spartan in halo 5

#

not no odst

#

and i already found out they are still a thing

tawny fox
#

They’ll always be a thing. They were the best of the best before spartans came along after all.

zealous pecan
#

I hope they get included in the next halo games campaign

tiny oracle
#

The forerunners killed off the flood by killing there food supply but why didn’t the flood use forerunner tech to just create life as food for them, just how the forerunners did?

#

The forerunners must be able to create artificial life right ?

gilded mason
#

It wouldn't really have been the point for them

tiny oracle
gilded mason
# tiny oracle What?

Wait, are you asking why the Flood didn't repopulate the galaxy after the Halos fired?

tiny oracle
gilded mason
tiny oracle
gilded mason
#

OB even comments that all the Flood that was helping MB were destroyed after the Halos fired

tiny oracle
#

But why them tho

#

So key graveminds were killed but a normal infection form wasn’t ? Why

gilded mason
#

Didn't use nervous systems

#

While things higher than that made use of other lifeforms and their nervous systems

tiny oracle
#

Ok so the graveminds became more sentient and alive the more the infection process therefore they would become life and have a nervous system

#

Except the average flood, they just brainlessly wandered for food

abstract wren
obtuse crow
#

Ehhh, it gives you perspective in order. (if it’s actually chronological.)

abstract wren
#

Order of release gives you perspective in meta construction. That's better

obtuse crow
#

Mmm.

#

You’re not wrong.

peak fjord
#

Halo can't seem to decide Riser's appearance

#

Like Cryptum has Riser looking like a Tolkien Hobbit, then Halo Encyclopedia 2022 got him looking like irl Hobbit, a Homo floresiensis

obsidian thistle
#

IE going though novel series.

All you lose is the weird novel series cross-over excitement that was better experienced when the media came out.

But going forward. Series is kinda how 343i is doing stuff! 🙂

The best thing... you can still mostly read stuff in release order that way.

Screenshot_20230222_115339_Samsung_Internet.jpg
#

You can also skip series you arnt vibing with also. (Which is another benefit to this)

#

BUT the biggest benefit to series order.... you can view each one as chunks instead of 1 massive list. (Which 1 massive list puts a lot of people off)

orchid kettle
#

I can't imagine someone starting Halo with the Forerunner trilogy

#

Nevermind how you get situations like Fall of Reach spanning decades

#

so like, what, are you supposed to stop and start every chapter and switch to different books

obsidian thistle
#

My infamous Canon Order

#

Kinda what got me noticed in the lore community.

orchid kettle
obsidian thistle
#

Its so not recommended

orchid kettle
#

man imagine the confusion

obsidian thistle
#

I way prefer letting fans choose what series they might be interested in

obtuse crow
obsidian thistle
#

Wanna start with a Ferret novel. Boom you have a good starting place. Wanna start will full on Master Chief action... A Master Chief Story.

Wanna read about a crew who get implicated into weird stuff... the Rion Forge novels.

So many start points.

orchid kettle
#

Well, if you start with Ferret, you do kinda get flooded with information like Blue Team and the Gammas, and their unique armors and stuff like that

obsidian thistle
#

The og 4 novels is legitimately however in my opinion the BEST start spot. But no harm elsewhere

#

You make it sound worse than it is lol.

#

It gives it as its needed.

#

To say however there is a core narrative line.

#

The Original Series > Kilo-Five Trilogy > The Ferrets > Then it gets a lil more weird.

#

That doesnt mean the series are bad starting places. It help to read previous novels sure, but you certainly will be told the important stuff if needed.

orchid kettle
#

Im just saying, its a lot to absorb, and Last Light is kinda supposed to be this pseudo sequel to Ghosts of Onyx

#

also personally I think the ferret saga are weak books

obsidian thistle
#

I just know they are good places if fans wanna jump in. 🙂

#

If they wanna learn more context its 3/4 books away (or a quick Halopedia away)

orchid kettle
#

But yeah, pseudo sequel in terms of how like ||Its this big progression for Saber Team, who naturally are major characters in Ghosts of Onyx||

#

||Also Rion Forge's salvagers are the better gang of misfits led by a mother figure with a traumatic backstory fite me||

abstract wren
abstract wren
icy yoke
#

I'd imagine forerunner, ancient human novel series where events discovered by human archeological teams

dense falcon
#

Stuff!

#

New HW2 art, new desktop wallpapers for me smirkle

#

Though I don't get this first paragraph. I thought that when Let 'Volir joined the Banished, the Covenant still hadn't fractured? Atriox let himself get captured by a bunch of Covenant ships and talked the Shipmaster into joining his cause?

image.png
orchid kettle
#

I like the HW2 marines

#

I have a soft spot in my heart for scifi designs that look like halloween costumes

dense falcon
#

That's some heavy shoulder plates

marines.jpg
last anchor
#

They look like 40k Space Marines XD

latent junco
#

Honestly, your not wrong, I see it

vivid umbra
#

Anyone else think the Brutes became the galaxy's butt monkeys after the war? (Butt monke?)

gilded mason
#

It's kind of the opposite thanks to the weird power-scaling the Banished got

obsidian thistle
#

Oh hey Rosenda got a new Hairstyle!

last anchor
#

Does fit their style honestly. They did ALMOST destroy Doisac on their own once

steep ether
#

On that topic, I wonder how advanced they were before all the nukes and whatnot

#

Because didn’t they quite literally blow themselves back to the Stone Age or their equvelant?

last anchor
#

They did yes

icy yoke
#

Nukes aren't really adequate weapons. Because despite their power , in vacuum of space most energy is thermal or radiation.

#

Covenant energy shields defeat their own energy weapons and weak kinetic impacts

#

That's why the MAC is such an unexpected but effective weapon

#

Primitive society" is capable of traveling the stars, but still throws rocks as weapons

#

Humans refine the rock

#

Purify the rock

#

Energize the rock

#

Depleted uranium, densest rock around....coat it in steel,iron. And shoot it

scarlet quiver
steep ether
#

never said anything ab nukes in space

#

just that the big bad space monkeys blew up (the surface of) their own planet

tiny oracle
#

What was master cheifs career and life before fall of reach ? What happened between the 25 of years between the start and end of the war ?

steep ether
#

alot of stuff

#

also his military career spans way past the fall of reach

#

the FoR happened in the summer of 2552, his first mission was in september of 2525

unique rune
#

he shot lots of aliens good

last anchor
#

And also some humans too

heady geyser
#

Gotta even out that kill count lol

hybrid crypt
#

Do we know if the flood managed to evolvepast a keymind before the forerunners killed them?

onyx cedar
#

Is cortana tangible?

obtuse crow
#

In what sense?

onyx cedar
#

Can I touch cortana and feel something

obtuse crow
#

Uh.

#

That’s unlikely.

#

As we see her via her chosen avatar.

onyx cedar
#

So I cant give cortana a hug?

obtuse crow
#

Uh, it might be possible post-domain resurrection.

#

But other that that.

#

I do not know.

dense falcon
#

It's a hologram, always has been

#

The only time this has been different is in Halo 4's ending, but that's it

onyx cedar
#

Could we like, do the funky brain transfer thing from the TV show but like the reverse from AI to human?

dense falcon
#

I can see that in basic paper, but as I think of it further I see multiple problems. Plus there's no mention of a reverse process anywhere in lore.

#

So it's safe to say: No

#

Plus it's probably twice as unethical as a flash clone's brain

tawny fox
unique rune
#

It might be possible to transfer memories from an AI to a human brain, given that there are ways to copy over memories between living human subjects (within the Halo universe), but it probably wouldn't work very well.

tawny fox
#

So the answer is probably no. You cannot hug her

obtuse crow
icy yoke
#

He blew up Covenant cruiser....with mail order

last anchor
#

I think the Encyclopedia said some of the Created were riding in Knight shells now right?

carmine sleet
abstract wren
carmine sleet
#

Let me have hope we'll see Prometheans again

#

Like, they're such an interesting concept and I was disappointed to see they weren't in Infinite in any form

abstract wren
#

That's because trufans didn't want them because it was not Halo ! So 343 listen to them and made a game for them

junior cave
#

Do you think humanity is grateful or was made aware of Noble team's sacrifices on Planet Reach? Or will their actions be made forgotten in the vast ocean of other sacrifices made to keep humanity from the brink of extinction due to the scale of the war?

It's weird because it seems to have never been addressed by any UNSC high command the loss of one of their most valuable assets at that time.

#

Noble Six's sacrifice specifically comes to mind.

willow ore
#

In all likelihood, it'd be seen as one of many

#

What they did was invaluable, but knowing WHY what they did was important is less common knowledge.

carmine sleet
willow ore
#

Also, since I've just noticed this channel

#

Does anyone know what this is?

dense falcon
#

Human footprints, could've been left by anyone.

willow ore
#

But they're massive

#

Like, bigger than a spartan's boot by far

latent junco
#

I know there are some Spartans that are bigger then others, (I believe its II's but idk off the top of my head) so it could be something like that

willow ore
#

Idk, they look more like they were created by the prototype suit, if that

latent junco
#

I'm not too sure, since it does look like a Spartan's boot, but as you were saying it does look bigger then a Spartan

unique rune
#

I think they’re just meant to be normal-ish human boot prints

#

Game scaling is kinda wacky

steep ether
#

bigfoot...

#

in all seriousness, probably just wonky game scaling

serene kiln
#

Gotta love the opening of Halo 2
"You are the best general in our fleet with decades of loyal service and countless victories under your belt, and we acknowledge you did all you could with the resources available, but you still failed so screw you and your entire race"

#

"We made a massive mistake ever letting your kind into our union in spite of all those countless victories you were instrumental to, we shall Return to Monke™️"

steep ether
#

Didn’t the great schism happen slightly later in the game? I might be mistaken because I haven’t played it in a fat minute

obtuse crow
#

yes, it did happen later in halo 2.

serene kiln
#

Was still what set that chain in motion iirc

drowsy mesa
#

Still, the San'Shyuum distrusted the Sangheili ever since the Writ of Union
And Truth knew the Sangheili are still too independent to be useful to him, instead of the more maleable Brutes

serene kiln
#

So
Whatever happened to the part of the Flood that
My dirty mind can only make one comparison to?
I played through 3 and iirc it didn't even score a cameo

#

Honestly 2 did a few things I'm disappointed we never saw again

steep ether
#

the gravemind?

#

dare I say "he", it was on the ark in H3

serene kiln
#

I heard him but he didn't appear in physical phallic form iirc

steep ether
#

he does, both during those annoying phases where MC trips and what not and also tenticles

tawny fox
#

It’s tentacles are what tried to grab Chief and Arby’s pelican when they escaped high charity at the end of the mission “Cortana”

#

So yeah we at least see part of it

tiny oracle
#

How many spartan 3’s and spartan 2’s are still alive by halo infinite

obtuse crow
unique rune
#

Blue - 4 (058, 087, 104, 117)
Red - 3 (042, 092, 130)
Omega - 3 (011, 025, 099)
Grey - 3 (006, 111, 120)

plus Naomi-010
I guess you could count Maria-062, Serin Osman (019), and Musa Ghanem (096) if you really wanted
it's possible that 075 and 084 are also still around
I feel like I'm forgetting a couple

serene kiln
#

There such thing as a Spartan 1 anymore
Or is it like with tanks where they weren't actually deployed on the battlefield until like Mk VI

unique rune
#

Project ORION was retroactively named SPARTAN-I after SPARTAN-II was named with respect to the older supersoldier project

#

Spartan-III has four Alphas (A266, A282, A302, A344), three Betas (B096, B091, B292), and three Gammas (G059, G099, G291) confirmed to still be alive

as current canon stands there are another 326 Gammas that could still be alive, plus any Alphas and Betas that 343 wants to retcon as still alive because lore after Ghosts of Onyx has had a thing for just going back and adding new living S-IIs/-IIIs that end up making the old numbers really wonky

tiny oracle
#

The real question is where is everyone in infinite?

#

Oh how we will never know because 343 massacred the lore and story

robust gyro
carmine sleet
proven wraith
#

Is there any canon reference to a Forerunner "holo-deck" or simulation room?

carmine sleet
fair hazel
#

The great schism is a very epic event.

novel quiver
#

Also ONI is worse than the Banished. Enough said.

tiny oracle
#

Banished is just the covenant 2.0

#

Let’s be honest here

orchid kettle
#

Not really beyond being a collection of species and evil

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

Problem is, you kinda need that for a Halo game

#

since at least, the aliens are designed as a gameplay concept first

#

only way to make them unique is honestly to make it like destiny where its an entirely different alien empire with its own varied species

#

or one species that has a crazy life cycle

novel quiver
#

A new master species would be really nice.

#

Not Sangheili or Jiralhanae.

orchid kettle
#

Destiny can kinda get away with that tho since enemies tend to not be as dynamic as Halo foes

#

Like, it's tempting to equate the Hive with the Flood, but the Flood actively converts other NPCs into combat forms, or revive fallen combat forms

#

and use the weapons of their hosts

novel quiver
#

I wish Jul 'Mdama did not get thrown out in Halo 5. He was a really interesting character and I think could have fit into Halo: Infinite nicely.

#

He built up his forces to the point where they could go toe to toe with the UNSC which is incredibly impressive.

#

Dying in a cutscene when you are that important is no way to go.

tiny oracle
carmine sleet
#

I'm fine with him dying in a cutscene, especially since he wasn't known for being the best fighter, but I'd have had his death happen later on in the campaign, likely on Sanghelios

orchid kettle
#

I kinda hate Jul's covenant ngl

tiny oracle
#

Halo infinites story and lore is so bad

orchid kettle
#

you can add one or two additional covenant races or an ancient evil freshly awakened

#

but kinda the idea was that the Covenant was a big deal in these parts

#

and its kinda hard to justify like, a new alien empire showing up out of nowhere

tiny oracle
#

Should’ve brought back the flood

#

Or focused the story on yk

orchid kettle
#

I may, Id enjoy more Flood

#

They've never been great

tiny oracle
#

Oh cmon

orchid kettle
#

But I wouldnt mind

tiny oracle
#

Jesus Christ

unique rune
#

I think I'd probably just quit Halo if they dragged the Flood back into this mess

tiny oracle
#

Halo infinite should’ve been about fighting Cortana or the flood not fighting these random apes on a halo ring

orchid kettle
#

Prometheans were pretty widely disliked

#

i dunno if I could stomach a full game of them

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

Granted theyd probably just say Cortana took over the Covenant races and now theyre trying to fight you

#

but I don't see how that'd change the criticism of the alien faction "just being the covenant"

#

I honestly feel like the only enemy archetype Infinite is missing isnsome sort of quick, weak enemy that overwhelms you with sheer numbers

#

ala the infection forms, drones, skirmishers, crawlers

#

I mean we have skirmishers but they only ever come at you one or two at a time

carmine sleet
#

I mean, Cortana did have some former Covenant groups working for her, like Grunts

#

And the Skirmishers in Infinite are functionally different to the ones from Reach

orchid kettle
#

Yeah I know, I assume that would have been the idea for Halo 5 2

#

that all the aliens work for Cortana now

#

and thats why theyre still a thing

carmine sleet
#

As for the Flood coming back, I'm with Nova, doesn't make sense. Would completely defeat the point of Halo 3's ending if they had yet another outbreak happen. Bad enough ATN had one happen but at least that got wrapped up

orchid kettle
carmine sleet
#

Like, I have my issues with Halo 3's ending but we still defeated the Flood

orchid kettle
#

They're not really overwhelming, they're not defensive

#

They're just

#

A Guy

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

But they're not, they're more like a third subclass of Jackal

#

And lacking a shield AND a deadly weapon probably makes them the quickest to be killed

carmine sleet
#

Have you ever seen a Jackal using anything other than a sniper weapon or a pistol and shield?

#

Like, Jackals aren't known for their use of rocket launchers and fuel rods

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

Because they struggle to be a threat, or at least a quick obstacle that requires a slight shift in approach to defeat

#

In Reach, the idea was that Skirmishers dropped in groups

#

and they overwhelmed you with speed and numbers

#

individually, they were little threat

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

but in Infinite, you ONLY get Skirmishers individually or at best pairs

#

So their main weapon is just gone

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

its like if we had a Halo game where Jackals didnt have shields

#

just plasma pistols

#

but otherwise acted the same

#

Itd be a boring enemy

novel quiver
carmine sleet
#

I feel like you misunderstand ONI

#

Like yeah they experimented with the Flood on the Mona Lisa, but after the events that transpired there, I doubt they would do something like that again

#

They know what the danger of the Flood is, they aren't going to try risking that getting out on a human (Or alien for that matter) colony

unique rune
#

Even if they did it’d probably be similar to the Mona Lisa incident

orchid kettle
carmine sleet
#

Exactly

unique rune
#

Isolated, distanced, easily hidden under layers of bureaucracy and secrecy

novel quiver
#

All ONI want is to secure their power and to dominate aliens, specifically the Sangheili.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah believe it or not

novel quiver
#

They would release flood onto the Sangheili in a heart beat.

orchid kettle
#

but the CIA equivalent isn't supposed to be the good guys

novel quiver
#

I have no doubts they would let the flood out for their own personal gain.

unique rune
#

Yeah but not at the cost of their whole “protecting humanity” thing

carmine sleet
#

Like, something I can't help but notice is there's allot of people who seem to think ONI is just a big cliché group of Bond villains seeking to take over the galaxy but they're not. They're by no means good people and will do some really bad things, but they're not going to be wiping out entire species because they're trying to protect humanity unless it was the literal last resort

#

Like, their research into poisoning Sangheili crops wasn't in some attempt to wipe out all of the Elites, it was to weaken them so they wouldn't pose a threat

novel quiver
#

They literally dropped a bomb on a Sangheili colony and wiped it out all because of "revenge". This was after the war when there was relative peace.

#

They are 100% evil.

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

A big theme in science fiction does tend to be about how man's hubris screws them over, regardless of their intention

unique rune
#

And on top of that a NOVA bomb, for all its absurdity, is much more limited in scope than the Flood

orchid kettle
#

and they believed humanity had

#

like-- thats the story, right?

unique rune
#

If you screw up a Flood deployment on a Sangheili colony, y’know, a species with spacefaring capabilities, you’ve basically just handed the Flood a free ticket to screw everyone over

orchid kettle
#

Jai didnt do it for memes

#

but because that was the point

#

they just didnt know the mission was aborted

carmine sleet
#

Again, they didn't know that the war was over, they were still under the impression the war was happening when they used the NOVA

#

I was not trying to claim it was "For the memes"

orchid kettle
#

Ordered by ONI, who was largely just looking to give the Covenant one last black eye before humanity exploded

novel quiver
#

I just did some research. The operation was green lit by ONI, but it actually was during the Battle of Earth.

orchid kettle
#

like, thats the idea right

#

what was the strategic advantage of bombing that planet otherwise

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

Like, insisting that just because ONI didn't do it personally

novel quiver
#

They would happily watch the galaxy burn in a bunker knowing they wiped out the xenos.

orchid kettle
#

that means theyre not responsible

#

is kinda copium

#

"I didn't kill this man, the gun I shot did!"

novel quiver
carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

I would assume youd have to be pretty high up to OK Gray Team going far behind enemy lines to blow up a planet

#

that sounds like something Jim from accounting doesn't have authority over

novel quiver
#

And you're right. Some ONI individuals may like Sangheili.

#

But ONI high command no doubt hates them.

unique rune
carmine sleet
#

Honestly, it feels like so many people don't get that ONI aren't mustash twirling villains

novel quiver
#

ONI was prepared to poison a common Sangheili crop, but only stopped because humanity could be hurt in the process. ONI as a whole hates Sangheili.

#

Simple as that.

orchid kettle
#

I mean--

#

Space CIA

orchid kettle
#

And DID make him disappear

#

They're pretty bad

unique rune
#

Like the point isn’t even to “kill all aliens,” it’s to keep them from being a threat to the UNSC

They very well know that killing all of them is not practical so they’re more than happy to try and cripple them in other ways

And using the Flood is not a solution that helps them in that goal because all it does is introduce another threat to human dominance

novel quiver
#

All they want is to secure their power.

orchid kettle
#

Yeah

unique rune
#

They would have to be obscenely desperate to resort to the Flood

novel quiver
#

The secret AI council that secretly runs the galaxy needs to take down the ONI servers fr...

orchid kettle
#

You really have to look no further than the Insurrection itself

unique rune
#

I know they’re awful but that’s not the point that I’m arguing

orchid kettle
#

a conflict that made the UNSC extremely unpopular even in the eyes of Earth citizens

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

I swear this was a Catalog post in the old Waypoint forums

novel quiver
#

Also, what ever happened to the AI council that we uncovered in Halo: Reach?

orchid kettle
#

where supposedly the reason the Insurrection happened at all, and why the UNSC would not grant these worlds independence

novel quiver
#

Did we ever hear anything about them after that?

orchid kettle
#

was because ONI knew forerunner artifacts were on some of these worlds

#

and refused to have anyone but the UEG own these relics

#

Thats the thing

#

they dont protect humanity

#

they protect the UEG

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

Space empires, or really empires in general, tend to be like that

#

You know whats funny, in the Cole Protocol, a book that features Innies pretty heavily: the actual bad guy turns out to be the greedy capitalist

#

and somehow not the guy who used to plant bombs in cruise liners

#

who if anything is given a tragic death

carmine sleet
#

I don't think anyone here is saying capitalism is good, we're just saying people really misunderstand what ONI does and is after

#

They do some really terrible things, but they're not doing it because they secretly want ONI to be in control of the universe, they're just trying to protect the interests of the UEG

#

Like, the head of the UEG could dismantle ONI if they wanted to

orchid kettle
#

Right, and the interests of the UEG is not necessarily the interest of humanity at large

novel quiver
#

Puppet master at work.

carmine sleet
#

They won't for the same reasons real world leaders don't get rid of their shady spy organisations

orchid kettle
#

Like-- we never really hear why the Innies are wrong

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

they have bad methods of course

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

but there's never really a convincing argument as to why they shouldn't have autonomy

novel quiver
#

It just seems rather obvious.

#

No proof. Just my opinion.

orchid kettle
#

and given how unpopular the UNSC is in Contact Harvest because of the Insurrection

teal hollow
#

Wait ONI are bad guys?

orchid kettle
#

it seems like public sentiment within the UEG isnt even on their side

#

like, if you're on Earth in a marine uniform, and the people there are giving you dirty looks

#

clearly people arent supporting the government's military efforts

#

so who are these efforts for

carmine sleet
carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

They're pretty bad

teal hollow
#

ONI runs the Spartan programme right?

orchid kettle
#

I think its just that people have a very, very narrow idea of what "bad" is

#

You dont need somebody to say

#

"i love eating puppies and babies for fun"

unique rune
#

ONI are the “it’s all a matter of perspective” type of bad where they’ll do horrible things and make excuses about it being for the greater good

orchid kettle
#

for them to be bad

orchid kettle
#

Which I don't

#

and hell Halsey in First Strike stopped believing them too lol

#

Thats why she goes rogue and everything

#

Everyone thinks they're the hero

carmine sleet
#

Halsey is still a bad person

orchid kettle
#

What matters is what you actually do

novel quiver
#

You can't even swear in an adult videogame discord? Damn.

#

Let me rephrase myself...

carmine sleet
#

Like, she literally kidnapped Kelly for her own schemes in First Strike

unique rune
#

me when I invent a child supersoldier program to solve a problem that I caused because I listened to the words of a bad study

orchid kettle
#

Well, her "scheme" is to make sure she can save the child soldiers she made

#

Still wrong at this point, of course

novel quiver
carmine sleet
teal hollow
#

Fire Lord you aren’t really constructively contributing what are you trying to prove?

novel quiver
#

It was a joke...

orchid kettle
#

Well, we do know that martial law was imposed, and the UNSC largely ran things for a while instead of the democratically elected UEG president

#

and ONI gets their own seat at the Security Council table even though its otherwise one seat per branch

#

and there's already a Navy guy

#

so Navy just gets two seats?

#

Geez I wonder how ParagoToThePolls-skee managed that one

carmine sleet
#

ONI is not the same as the Navy

orchid kettle
#

What do you think the N stands for

#

Why do you think ONI agents have navy ranks

#

🤨

carmine sleet
#

I know what the N stands for but the UNSC is made up of multiple branches, ONI is separate to the UNSC Navy in those branches

unique rune
#

It’s kinda weird that they are separate though

orchid kettle
#

They're not

unique rune
#

I worded that poorly, I meant that they’re treated as if they are

#

which is
odd

orchid kettle
#

also

#

the office of naval intelligence

#

exists in real life lol

carmine sleet
#

That's not the same as Halo's ONI

static pier
#

Ok totally random but what is Halo Infinite Multiplayer cannon? Like is it's lore is that they're training Spartans or smthn? I remember hearing smthn like that?

orchid kettle
#

Which is still Navy

#

Even if they did become their own branch

carmine sleet
#

The UNSC's Navy isn't the USA's Navy

orchid kettle
#

how is that not proof that ONI has been accumulating power for years

#

When an intelligence agency gets a seat on the Council of Humanity

carmine sleet
orchid kettle
#

(which also, I have yet to see proof of ONI being considered a different branch)

#

I know in the Spartan Field Manual, there's an infographic that weirdly does, but Halopedia still calls it Navy

#

and cites the recent Encyclopedia

static pier
orchid kettle
#

which surely would make ONI its own branch if what Spartan Field Manual implied had any truth

novel quiver
#

I believe Halo 4 and 5 multiplayer took place on Infinity.

#

The rest I do not know.

carmine sleet
#

The training facility isn't on a Halo ring in Infinite

#

It's an academy on a remote world

novel quiver
orchid kettle
#

Id also like to point out that when ONI/UNSC heard about a math prophecy that predicted that the Insurrection would destroy all of humanity in its wake

#

The UNSC/ONI would rather have kidnapped and conscripted almost a hundred children than give up a single iota of power

#

Surely that prophecy about humanity killing itself

#

is only true if you refuse to let the other worlds be independent from Earth

#

but they just wont lol

#

For seemingly no reason

vivid viper
#

space-age imperialism

#

love to see it

orchid kettle
#

This is why Mickey is based in Bad Blood

#

he's the only guy willing to point out that the UNSC are kinda fascists

#

Like, the Insurrection has never once been depicted with there being any meaningful support for the UNSC's side from people who weren't in the UNSC

#

otherwise, it sure seems like people wanted to own their worlds

serene kiln
#

Does Master Chief ever deal with the Insurrectionists? Or at least comment on them?
His specialty is aliens but in terms of human politics it seemed like he was pretty firmly the UNSC's lap-dog unless it came to Cortana

gilded mason
# serene kiln Does Master Chief ever deal with the Insurrectionists? Or at least comment on th...

He dealt with Insurrectionists at the start of his service before the Covenant put that in a lower priority. There was also a time where he had to fight with them against Covenant at some colony. When Blue Team was getting extracted to escape the overwhelming force, the Innies that fought with them were prevented from coming with them to safety. John was actually outraged at the UNSC doing that.

serene kiln
#

Pog
Good man

orchid kettle
#

As part of their abduction of Colonel Watts, Blue Team ended up blasting a hole through the asteroid base the rebels were living in

#

And the narration lingers on the image of random people drifting lifelessly in space

#

and since Halo is typically written from a third person limited viewpoint, this kinda implies that Chief himself is lingering on this

#

Chief's "arc" in Fall of Reach is also him realizing that human life is precious, and compassion for his fellow man is important

#

its not the most complicated arc, he kills ODSTs in a training exercises at the start of the book, and at the end, he doesn't

#

but you know, it seems like the idea is that despite all the stuff the Spartan program did to him, it could never fully eliminate his compassion

#

Which I guess you could argue is what really makes Chief a hero

orchid kettle
#

racist extremists who were violently opposed to making peace with aliens

#

though, uh, get this

#

Sapien Sunrise later claimed they were armed by FERO, Ben's contact in Hunt the Truth

#

and FERO is actually an undercover ONI agent posing as a rebel leader

#

So ONI potentially funded and armed a violent coup that led to an ambassador's death

gilded mason
#

average day for ONI

#

The organization as a whole is evil, after all ;)

orchid kettle
#

well, when its time to frame Ben for being the real bad guy at the end of HtT season 1, its ONI who says FERO, who the public knows as a rebel leader, was the one who armed Sapien Sunrise

#

so they COULD be making that part up

#

but Ben also says that the only reason the coup happened at all was because Biko's requests for UEG security on their diplomatic meeting was denied

serene kiln
#

Honestly the Brutes were pretty bad guys, dedicated followers of the Great Journey, underlings of Truth and the others, seem to enjoy looting and raiding
But at least they're up-front about their operations

orchid kettle
#

its honestly kinda hard to say what really happened in HtT

#

because you have people who say that ONI planned everything from the beginning

#

which is kinda whack when you consider how FERO, an undercover ONI agent, shot and killed two other agents to protect Ben

#

and how nonsensical it is to just grab Ben, make him commit treason, and then blame him for it later

#

of course their plan to make up a Master Chief origins documentary was also always kinda doomed to fail, considering other people lived on Eridanus II

#

and ONI was making up some easily disprovable lies about what the planet was like

#

"Gah-tors as big as skyscrapers, giant gorillas swatting airplanes out of the air! Just your average day in New York City."

#

"Trust us"

#

"Dont look outside"

serene kiln
#

When you're so bad as a government you make the Covenant look competent

orchid kettle
#

well thats why people assume that the entirety of hunt the truth was just Ben following ONI's script

#

but like

#

it makes Hunt the Truth infinitely worse as a story because now your main character has no agency

#

and kinda in any story where the twist is "the villain planned everything!"

#

you end up wondering

#

"the main character nearly died like 50 times throughout this movie. Was that ALL really your plan?"

serene kiln
#

In the words of Cinemasins
"Let's talk about ____'s plan"

orchid kettle
#

like Hunt the Truth instantly breaks apart, the second you ask yourself

#

"Okay, what if Ben DIDNT try to uncover the truth and just did his job?"

#

"You just gonna make the documentary anyway and get exposed, or just toss all the footage and say 'sorry nevermind'"

serene kiln
#

Honestly why I've grown to have a mild dislike of "chess master" villains
They're never done in such a way where their plan is actually sound and it doesn't make everyone involved look like idiots
I prefer ones that don't know everything that's gonna happen, and know how to adapt their exploits to eventually reach their goal one way or another

orchid kettle
#

I feel like that sort of twist is on the same level as "it was all a dream"

#

Where like, neither twist is really saying much, because they're just lampshading how the story happening in front of you isn't real

#

Because yeah, the hero is always following somebody's plan unwittingly

#

the writer's

#

lampshading that just kinda ruins your immersion

orchid kettle
#

but an individual isn't

#

Which kinda makes sense when you think about it. You can kinda guess what the general populace will think, but if you single out one person, they won't line up with that "general populace" in all areas

#

there are gonna be some ways where their thoughts dont line up with the majority

obsidian thistle
#

The weird thing is that I dont actually think its ever been confirmed Johns parents are dead...

#

So thats a massive plothole in their narrative.

scarlet quiver
#

😳

orchid kettle
#

as Ben says

#

"Do glassed PEOPLE have bad records?"

#

like, there's potentially hundreds of thousands of Eridanus II survivors

#

Surely if enough scrutiny comes out at once, that's just gg

#

and them suddenly disappearing from the internet would just attract further attention

drowsy mesa
obsidian thistle
serene kiln
#

This has probably been asked a few million times since Reach came out but
Who would win in a fight, Master Chief or Noble 6

tropic forge
serene kiln
#

Comedy

lilac lava
serene kiln
#

I mean
Noble Six killed a lotta people in a day
Chief's pulled off some pretty big plays with stuff like blowing up Halo rings but in terms of straight one-on-one gunfighting I think Six might have the higher body-count

lilac lava
#

and noble six wouldve got annihalted by the didact

serene kiln
#

Apparently Six survived an entire day by himself on Reach and singlehandedly put a good dent in the invasion fleet's numbers with nothing but his guns?

lilac lava
#

What makes u think the master chief cant pull that off

serene kiln
#

I'm not saying it guarantees 6 would win
I'm just saying he's at the very least a worthy opponent

gilded mason
serene kiln
#

No I mean after he was left behind
Apparently the official run of Lone Wolf lasted an entire day and he brought down at least a couple thousand Convenant by himself
Also heard the way they finally took him down was to fire an entire glassing cannon at him but don't quote me on that

gilded mason
#

uhhhhhh

#

what

#

Where did you hear that lol

serene kiln
#

Another fan who seemed to know what he was talking about

gilded mason
#

They absolutely did not.

#

They were lying to you.

serene kiln
#

Wiki seems to back me up but then again I checked the Fandom one
And people in other communities have advised I don't use that site

gilded mason
#

That's a bad site, yeah

#

Use Halopedia

tawny fox
serene kiln
#

Nnnope, Halopedia says 6 lasted several hours by himself too

tawny fox
#

The Didact had power that chief wasn’t really trained to deal with

gilded mason
serene kiln
#

I did say not to quote me on the glassing beam thing
But point is he killed a lotta people after the Autumn left

gilded mason
#

He only might've killed maybe a few dozen

#

Or maybe even got overwhelmed after killing even less.

cobalt quiver
#

Did Thom always wear that orange armor or did he have both the orange and grey sets?

drowsy mesa
drowsy mesa
gilded mason
drowsy mesa
#

Yep, we don't have an full time of death
We know the date (August 30), but not the hour. But given the lighting of the location he was stranded, probably he lasted one or two hours before he was killed

maiden kite
sick current
craggy sierra
# serene kiln I mean Noble Six killed a lotta people in a day Chief's pulled off some pretty ...

Nobel 6 was active for less time than chief with the Spartan 3 program not actually deploying until a decade after chief was in field and for a large chunk of his tenure Noble 6 would have been in the non-shielded SPI armor meant for smaller scale engagements.

I'mma be real. The entire "hyper lethal" marketing thing for reach was a mistake on multiple levels.

Besides retroactively making chief read like a 12 year old's anime OC and making 6 feel that way out of the box, it just doesn't even make sense if you think about it in the context of the universe.

#

It's so superfluous as a detail cause the prior Halo games never even drew attention to chief being some super special killing machine beyond being a Spartan.

But all because they were introducing new Spartans they went out of their way to say how chief is super duper cool and how he could totally beat Vegeta in a fight and "don't worry guys, this new spartan is just just as cool cause he shares the same designation we literally just made up for chief for this game."

serene kiln
#

I mean it's an easy thing to draw attention to
Even heroes kill a lotta people
Mario's kill-count is easily in the hundreds of thousands

craggy sierra
#

You wouldn't even think you'd need that after ODST kinda established the idea you don't even need to be a Spartan to pull through some pretty unlikely situations.

You could give 6 recognition for prior off screen actions but the whole "the only other person besides chief to be hyper lethal" bit just pushed it into cartoon territory.

It also feels like it kinda throws the rest of chief's team under the bus. He was barely ever on solo missions before Reach fell so you have to wonder what Chief did that didn't grant Fred, Linda, and Kelly the title.

craggy sierra
# serene kiln I mean it's an easy thing to draw attention to Even heroes kill a lotta people M...

Halo's set in a war, the story is literally about war. It goes without saying people have kill counts.

What irks me though, and I will be honest in that I don't know if this was your intention by asking, but it's common to see people literally only define Halo characters by superfluous details like their kill counts and then get caught up in trying to use that as some metric to calculate a Dragon Ball Z power level or something.

I've been a bit worn down by people trying to explicitly define characters by numbers.

serene kiln
#

I mean I'd think it's a decent measurement of combat skill
Someone who can't fight good isn't likely to kill many people

#

And I am discounting single massive plays that resulted in massive casualties by themselves
Like the multiple Halo rings Chief blew up or the Covenant Cruiser 6 shot down with a MAC cannon, those single acts probably shot their overall killcounts up by several thousand each
I'm only talking straight gunfighting

craggy sierra
#

Again, on that front, 6 only had 2/3 the time in the field chief did and a majority of that time was in unshielded armor relegating him to espionage/small scale skirmishes. This is part of why I oppose Bungie trying to explicitly market the hyper lethal vector thing for 6 cause if you think about it, it seems physically impossible his kill count is anywhere close to really any still operating Spartan 2 at the time of Reach.

carmine sleet
#

Chief's ability to kill (And the number of kills he has) doesn't mean he's going to win every fight he's in

#

Heck, if we used someone's kill count to measure how good of a fighter they are, Batman would be at the bottom due to his no kill rule even though he is known for being one of the best fighters in DC

serene kiln
craggy sierra
#

Uh...that's like 90% of what makes Spartans able to do the things they can. Having no shielding literally physically means not being able to take larger fights because...you know...you die.

carmine sleet
#

Yeah