halo-discussion

[sick pine]

Hello

I’m new here

Does anyone wanna play? I’m trying to get better

[sullen kiln]

If you're looking for other Spartans to join you in battle, check out our LFGs:

#lfg-competitive – For ranked/competitive matchmaking
#lfg-social – For social/casual matchmaking
#lfg-campaign - For campaign co-op
#lfg-forge - For map/mode building and testing
#lfg-customs - For custom games
#lfg-other – For firefight, spartan ops, etc
#lfg-español – Para jugadores hispanohablantes en cualquier categoría de juego
#lfg-hcs-scrims-or-teams – To help you find a team or secure some scrims

Don't forget to check out #lfg-and-voice-chat to learn about the !lfg bot, how to use it, and how to create your own voice channels.

[main pagoda]

Was desync ever fixed?

[crystal iron]

hello guys

[grim jetty]

hello all

[crystal iron]

i have a question about halo the master chief collection, i see on steam he has a multiplayer mode, is the halo infinite or another multiplayer think in halo?

[young glen]

The Master Chief Collection and Halo Infinite are two different games.

They both have multiplayer.

[crystal iron]

exactly, but master chief collection has a multiplayer mode, what is it?

[young glen]

You can search for particular games and modes in matchmaking, play coop, and custom games.

[glacial tartan]

MCC contains: Halo Reach, Halo Combat Evolved (and its anniversary overhaul), Halo 2 (and its anniversary overhaul), Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo 4. All are campaign and multiplayer 😄

[crystal iron]

and is worth playing multiplayer?

has some players or good modes, etc.

[glacial tartan]

As someone approaching 10,000 hours of playtime on Steam alone I'll admit my bias 🙂 But yes, its definitely worth the sale price tag it has right now.

[crystal iron]

i know its worth, but i want to play for more than 100h, without campaigns

thats why im asking

[glacial tartan]

https://i.imgur.com/HERPB4u.jpeg In 4v4 alone you have Precision Slayer, Auto Slayer, Flag and Bomb, Zone Control, Asset Denial, Action Sack, Swat, Snipers, and the current rotational playlist is Fiesta. You can find games for 100 Hours no problem.

You can pick and choose whatever you want to play - the less you choose, the longer the potential wait.

[crystal iron]

and you beat bosses, waves or something like that?

[glacial tartan]

What im describing here is PvP multiplayer, against other players. But there is 2 player and 4 player Firefight matchmaking against AI / covenant "bots"

Thats limited to Halo Reach and H3 ODST and has a variety of modes too (Sniper Fight, Rocket Fight, stuff like that) 🙂

[crystal iron]

interesting

thanks alot

[glacial tartan]

No problem. If you have other questions dont hesitate to ask. Take care!

[crystal iron]

take care!

[brave lava]

Btb infection needs to be re-added but as a permanent gamemode

[misty vale]

and no "super" zombies that was just hard to control

[crystal iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM3zNqyYoZw

just made this

[last dust]

boyfriend agreed to play ODST with me! initially he had no interest but he saw how much i was gushing about it so he decided hed play it. makes me happy cause its the one mainline halo game he never played.

[coarse dagger]

[last dust]

im so hyped. cause honestly i prefer the ODST team dynamic over Reach, since the characters in ODST feel more alive. the casual banter to relieve the tension of the situation theyre in is honestly really nice, and makes the characters feel more real.

[balmy wedge]

Man's about to play one of the top three Halo games.

[wide trout]

Nathan Fillion is a great actor

you should watch The Rookie

great show

[grave ether]

Firefly

[last dust]

oh yeah, and im really excited for him to experience it for the first time

[lone anvil]

Now that the next halo game is in the works, does anyone remember when 343i said that halo infinite would have a 10 year lifespan xD

[coarse dagger]

What 343 said recently, was that they have additional teams working on new projects but they haven't specified exactly what those projects are just yet. Similar to what was said a few months, anything new like a game is quite a way off. Infinite is still being supported by a dedicated team, with content lined up for the rest of the year
https://youtu.be/9aV4pIIz2p8?t=3935

[lone anvil]

if the content thats lined up is anything like the update we just had it'll be a massive shame

[misty silo]

Hes my fav, he was already my fav before I played ODST haha

[coarse dagger]

Match Composer, EAC inclusion, Networking model fixes, Playlkist refreshes with new maps, there's other stuf but I can't remember exactly what's been announced

[white birch]

Plus other stuff they haven't revealed
People gotta stop being so greedy.
You'd burn through the new stuff in less than a week and end up wanting more like thr Destiny crew did back in the day

[analog salmon]

ranked MM times are so fast rn

zero bloom, good rotation 😄

[blissful mountain]

Im stuck at a loading screen when i just downloaded the game

[analog salmon]

it needs to compile shaders
give it a little bit

[blissful mountain]

How much gb is that

[analog salmon]

idk but every game has to compile shaders for ur GPU

some do it before loading

[lone anvil]

my brother you have been brain washed, the game released with like 5 game modes, we are now 2 years deep and for a seasonal update we got a 20 tier battle pass and a shop update which was so absurdly priced it feels like daylight robbery.

If they could do it for the 1st five games, CE - Reach, I dont see why 343 cant atleast copy how bungie used to manage their games

[coarse dagger]

What worked 20 years ago unfortunately just isn't sustainable now, the landscape of the world has changed, peoples wants have changed, economies and costs have drastically changed.

[sullen owl]

Making a game to the degree of 2007 quality is totally doable today. You just need a team dedicated to one vision of making the best game they can for the fans. BG3 is a testament to it.

When C-Suites run profits over player satisfaction, it's a loss for all but the whales.

[lone anvil]

I'm not saying infinite is a bad game by any means, I've played alot of it and enjoyed it, but at the end of the day it cant hold a candle to any of the original games

[blissful mountain]

Dude Halo Infinite crashes when im installing Shaders

[sullen kiln]

Please refer to the Halo Support site for additional information and/or to submit a ticket concerning any issues you may be experiencing.

https://aka.ms/HaloSupport

[coarse dagger]

Make sure and file a bug report for any crashes

[crystal iron]

huh i might try the Halo Reach Polished mod, looks freaken good

[misty vale]

Total lie. It's sustainable, just not as profitable.

[white birch]

Same thing really. To be sustainable something must be profitable.
Even indie games suffer that

[coarse dagger]

Game prices have only recently started to increase in price, they've largely stayed the same for years. People want and expect bigger and better games, which costs more to develop and maintain. Compared to 20 years ago, the market is absolutely saturated with games now, new releases happening so often you barely get 5 minutes with a game before the next big thing comes out. Companies are working to build engagement and keep you flowing back to their game over others. So no, the older models are not sustainable in today's market

[coarse dagger]

To add to this, feel free to go ask the same question in the Xbox server and see if some of the staff there add their thoughts. Few of them and server regulars are also developers and will tell you the exact same thing

[lusty wraith]

Gonna respectfully disagree. Generally assuming expectations from “people” in general is always a gamble. Costs and scope being unrealistically massive nowadays in AAA is partially a management problem (I’d say the biggest reason but no way of proving that so 🤷‍♂️).

[lusty wraith]

Game prices were the same for years sure but the market has blown up exponentially. More people are buying games than ever before.

[ruby knoll]

BG3 was in EA for years and, while i very much enjoy it, it has rough edges

[worn iron]

Chieftain's Labryinth will go down in history as one of the scariest custom games ever

[misty vale]

The games market is saturated today because we stopped having to be picky. We're on gamepass or free to play! I do understand that it's never going back, but gaming was better back then. Much higher concentration of quality, and set costs.

[worn iron]

Fun fact: Kim Haines (lead multiplayer environment developer at 343) has a cameo in Illusion in the form of a ONI datapad-like object

[crystal iron]

OMG i love this so much LOL

[white birch]

Didn't they fire q bunch of the guys who made it too

[crystal iron]

that reminds me anyone do halo art? i need to talk to someone about doing ODST emotes >.>

like animations?

no like

still stickers for a twitch chat

https://i.etsystatic.com/31399386/r/il/cd2fb2/4171643022/il_fullxfull.4171643022_c3pv.jpg like this but ODSTs

ooooh

i havent gone affiliate yet over this ngl lol

been stuck in limbo for a year

wow

ya only people that msg me these days are art scam bots, heck i made a twitter yesterday asking this question to twitch support, got 20+ art scam follower LOL

haha

sigh the fun never ends

[white birch]

Social media be like

[crystal iron]

ikr

[rugged quartz]

I feel like earnable credits would definitely keep a lot of engagement. Some daily and some weekly stuff maybe or something for sure

[rugged quartz]

No. It's plainly bad for the player

That is a horrible idea.

Forgers would be REALLY angry at that too

[slow walrus]

Who is going to play a multiplayer shooter with an entry fee?

Definitely nobody I know

[rugged quartz]

It plainly divides the community to have map packs too. And they get less played.

That's not true to say everyone. And halo isn't some adult exclusive thing at all. Neither it should be gatekeeped

All my points i've made are valid

The worst one was the forge paid DLC assets

I don't think you can begin to comprehend how bad it is for the people who make forge maps, especially the forgers who help make that rise into matchmaking

People under 18 have as well. And markets and behaviours change

Yeah new forge paid dlc assets are a horrible idea

Well it's also wrong to assume everyone will get it just because they're over 18

I know many forgers and the ammount of forgers who would probably be cringing at the mere tought of it... I can hear their voices in my head

[lusty wraith]

Woah woah woah, £80?? 70 is contentious as it is imo

It’s never a guarantee corporations always take and take

[slow walrus]

It also won't have any players

[lusty wraith]

$60 for a full game is more than fair, it’s a corporate line saying that $70 or above is necessary now

Every year the AAA game industry reports higher percentage gains in revenue, it’s such a massive fib that we need games to be priced higher

[rugged quartz]

Halo 3 also had much less content.. less demanding, lesser framerate, graphical things, polygons, resolutions, only a single platform instead of 2 xbox platforms and pc and a lot of other stuff

[lusty wraith]

Ironically failed Live Service systems are the culprit of some of the biggest corporate losses

[rugged quartz]

ODST was overpiced

[burnt flume]

i love to watch conversations.

[slow walrus]

right when Halo was starting to fall off from being the only FPS on the Xbox. There are many games competing for people's time these days, and Halo is pretty low on that list for most gamers.

[lusty wraith]

What does this even mean? You’re saying H3 wasn’t pushing limits in 2007?

[rugged quartz]

It had much less complexity to develop

[ashen atlas]

Yeah it’s tough to compare things from 2007 to 2020. Things are always improving especially technology. It should be compared to games from its era

[lusty wraith]

H3 frankly functions miles better than Infinite does currently for the record

[rugged quartz]

I'm thinking of a response. do i say. That's a lie. Do I say, that's blatantly untrue. Do I say, faulty nostalgic memory. Do I bring up black screens and how it was 720p and 30fps. Too much stuff to say at once

[ashen atlas]

For a game from 2007. It was quite a masterpiece

[lusty wraith]

I mean you’re not totally wrong but blame whoever decided we needed to be unrealistically ambitious for Infinite’s open world campaign. They had to reinvent the game for that and it’s on them

[rugged quartz]

Super laggy halo 3 campaign co-op network model

[rugged quartz]

Linear or open world, the point would remain

Just a model itself is expected to be of higher quality than 2007

[lusty wraith]

So you’re pondering whether or not you’re going to reframe the past in a way that isn’t really fair to gas up Infinite for… reasons?

[polar prairie]

It's all of MCC co-op too, it's the base code of the games that cause it

[lusty wraith]

So you are being incredibly unfair. Nice to see I don’t have to take you seriously whatsoever

[rugged quartz]

The ammount of work involved in both is different

You need a lot more work and tech to make the bottom.

It's more costly in monetary, technical and people resources to make modern assets as a base

It's more costly in monetary, technical and people resources to make a game multi-platform than a single platform you can optimize

For the time. Yeah. But the times have changed

It's not 2007 anymore. It's 17 years later.

This sounds like the horrible take asmongold had..

[lusty wraith]

I’m not engaging with you. You’re comparing aspects of game dev at two different points in time to argue for more expensive games in an incredibly disingenuous way

[rugged quartz]

Not caring abour the artists (developers) and all that involved

All that I have said is true and is one of the reasons why game development is more expensive.

You can't make halo infinite with the team you had to make halo CE.

Those arguments are not anywhere the same too

[lusty wraith]

Game dev is more expensive but it’s because of metrics and scope that is engineered by management. Studios are blowing their scale and ambition to unrealistic heights, it’s not simply because “making higher fidelity assets = $70-$80 games now”

[rugged quartz]

People also expect higher fidelity too

Honestly. Learn to care. That's what I can say about this.

[lusty wraith]

I’m going to continue to care about consumers and less of the corporations bottom line ✌️

[rugged quartz]

I didn't say about a corporation's bottom line

[lusty wraith]

That’s what you’re arguing for though? Isn’t your point that games have to be more expensive because “higher fidelity assets are more costly?”

[rugged quartz]

Higher fidelity assets are ONE thing that make video games more costly than in 2007

ONE thing out of many

And no. I'm talking about the development of games and the resources involved

That's not the same thing as executive's bottom line

[lusty wraith]

I’m tired boss. All I’m gonna say is games don’t have to be more expensive. Companies are getting their checks, tired of getting nickel and dimed in so many AAA titles nowadays

Peace ✌️

[rugged quartz]

That adage 'the costumer is always right' is just dumb, false, untrue, and a lot of other words I could use. It's good for people to not stay ignorant. Not only for game development but honestly for things in your life in general.

Yeah, I don't like a lot of monetization practices currently going on

You can argue for better while understanding the realities of game development

[ruby knoll]

disgusting mentality

[ruby knoll]

lol

because i needed a reminder about how wonderful the illustrious and infallible halo community is, the halo infinite steam forums are crying about bhm

[smoky wave]

Dude I love map packs

How could you say that, I love being seperated from the matchmaking and fragment even more of the game population

[ruby knoll]

you're right, my dressup simulator needs to put what's important first; fReE cOsMeTiCs

the fps bit is secondary to my dressup game

[smoky wave]

Yeah true- what do you mean microtransactions are still going to be in a paid game? In this time of the year?

[ruby knoll]

no no if they're labeled dlc, then it's wholesome ! especially if it negatively impacts the gameplay experience for anyone who doesn't buy it

also having gameplay content be paid on top of paying for the basegame means the content will be more gooder

why? well uhhh... IT JUST DOES OK????

lmao

[smoky wave]

Lol

[ruby knoll]

free games don't exist in a market

and also chopping up the game benefits consumers

your point is divorced from reality

you want the gameplay content to be chopped up because you want free cosmetics

[smoky wave]

I'm sorry to tell you but having a paid game does not indicate that can be good or not can be beneficial for the user in the end, specially when stuff like Xbox gold still exist too

Paying 60€, then dlc, then microtransactions + battlepass, then xbox live gold (or whatever is called now)

[ruby knoll]

the previous model you fall over yourself to defend relied on xbl gold being part of rhe calculation

[smoky wave]

Not saying that F2P are the best either but what you are saying it does not benefit the user either

[ruby knoll]

this is incredibly tenuous logic

it relies on the assumption that they only look at mtx figures once and in the shallowest way possible

crunch
halo 2 says hi

[smoky wave]

Halo CE

[ruby knoll]

nah, bungie wasted time and had to play catch up

[smoky wave]

Bungie didn't organize lol

[ruby knoll]

deadlines need to be a thing otherwise you get nonsense like star citizen or other money blackholes

besides, bungie was probably involved in release date talks. the idea that sHaReHoLdErS decide minutiae like the release dates for individual games in a company as massive as mikerowsoft is funny

over half of the US is shareholders in various companies btw. either directly or by proxy

even privately owned companies like profits

generally speaking

[magic night]

A "complete" game is a fairly arbitrary metric. What makes a game complete and who decides.

Pretty much every game ever has had cut content, including every Halo title. Does that make them incomplete?

[crystal iron]

well i want some advice about something. Halo infinite is in sale and been thinking to buy it but the problem is i never played halo before. So will it affect the story or anything?

[magic night]

You don't necessarily need to play the other games for Infinite, but if you're someone who enjoys the story, you will get a ebtter uderstanding if you play the other games first.

I typically recommend going through the other games first

[crystal iron]

well for the story then, I guess i have to play from the start. Thanks for the help

yeah appreciated for the help.

[slender bridge]

Is it me, or does the zacharias helmet look like Linda’s mark iv helmet?

[crystal iron]

okay i will look into it and again thanks for the help

[small oasis]

Does any body wanna play squads with me

Social squads vc

[slender bridge]

I’d love to but I’m not home rn

[inland minnow]

use the lfg channels to find players

[sullen kiln]

If you're looking for other Spartans to join you in battle, check out our LFGs:

#lfg-competitive – For ranked/competitive matchmaking
#lfg-social – For social/casual matchmaking
#lfg-campaign - For campaign co-op
#lfg-forge - For map/mode building and testing
#lfg-customs - For custom games
#lfg-other – For firefight, spartan ops, etc
#lfg-español – Para jugadores hispanohablantes en cualquier categoría de juego
#lfg-hcs-scrims-or-teams – To help you find a team or secure some scrims

Don't forget to check out #lfg-and-voice-chat to learn about the !lfg bot, how to use it, and how to create your own voice channels.

[crystal iron]

just curious to know how is the campaign of infinite?

[frosty condor]

I liked it

Cinematics are immersive

[olive brook]

its alright

i had fun playing it

[crystal iron]

well then let see how it goes for me

[main pagoda]

It's pretty fun, the gadgets work well with the open world aspect, although I think the map should have accommodated the grappling hook a bit better

I replied pretty late lol

[crystal mortar]

guys how do i report a cheater

[sullen kiln]

https://aka.ms/HaloSafety

[coarse dagger]

Info is there on how to do it in-game on via the support site ^

[crystal mortar]

epic

because i found a wallhacker

[quaint adder]

Are servers going down? The game I was in everyone in the lobby got disconnected and said couldn't connect to the dedicated servers

[finite river]

nothings been posted about servers goin down

[wary sandal]

of what

[finite river]

?

[wary sandal]

what servers down

[finite river]

the halo ones for the person asking above

[wary sandal]

oh

[wary sandal]

do you know how to do MCC campaign 2 player

[finite river]

dunno

i havent played mcc in ages so couldnt tell you

[midnight tree]

when people switch to the turret seat on the wraith to escape from a planted grenade is it a bug or a feature

i watched some dude get boarded and naded twice and both times they switched to the turret then hopped back in after it went off

kinda dumb

[analog salmon]

can you get out

i feel like they intentionally nerfed boarding but if you cant get out, you shouldnt be able to switch seat either

[jagged crescent]

Is there a way to see campaign rewards?

And how to get them

[tulip tusk]

it's ok some nice moments, I generally enjoyed it. For some reason i haven't replayed it though, never got an itch to play a level again yet which is weird usually there's one or two levels I really like a lot and play again

[solar brook]

got infinite yesterday, getting a feel for the game
what do i do once i've beaten all weekly challenges?

[velvet dirge]

exp wise? you can still get exp from matches

[solar brook]

cool cool, thanks

[unique finch]

Hey crew - is there a way to buy the old operations? I’d love to get Tenrai 2 and 3. Just wasn’t around when those came out.

[finite river]

nope

locked forever until the spartan point thingy comes out

[unique finch]

What’s spartan point thingy?

Oh like in MCC?

[finite river]

think so

i heard it was mentioned on the pre season stream but i missed that segment

[velvet dirge]

Was it told that "system" would also bring back old ops?

oh wait, you're talking about the items
could be

[unique finch]

Ya like the 20 piece battle pass or whatever. Sad that I can’t get it at this point. Love the look. I’d pay happily

[velvet dirge]

have you already finished the available ops and the winter update pass?

[unique finch]

Yep!

Just now realizing there were ops during previous seasons that I missed out on. As a completionist, I’d love the opportunity to complete those too.

[half kiln]

Infinites store is one of the biggest live service disappointments ive ever seen. If you want to know what happens when you treat your players like a wallet you can look no further than destiny 2 and ask them how its going for them

[velvet dirge]

sadly i'm gonna have to inform you its still goes pretty well for Bungie

[velvet dirge]

what about all the season passes?

[smoky wave]

Then you haven't seen many stores live service games then

[half kiln]

It really isn’t actually

[half kiln]

I have

[velvet dirge]

out of curiosity, what are you basing that off?

[smoky wave]

Sure

[half kiln]

Previous years and over player sentiment

This doesn’t include the forum. That place isn’t always negative

[velvet dirge]

so I assume you have access to financial streams, revenue and profit reports etc?

[half kiln]

So by your logic you need access to all of it to base judgement and not the recent events or overall player engagement for the past 9 months or so

Not the recent discounts and overall more micro transaction store focused approach, no that doesn’t matter

[velvet dirge]

Yes, by "my" logic (and logic everywhere, period) if you want to claim a company (in this case a video game developer) is losing money over time in comparison to a previous earning year/era you're gonna have to back it up with actual earning reports, revenue documents or basically anything written that proves they are actually losing money.
"Player sentiment" is the best guess you can come up with but we both know most people who talk badly about a game will most likely come back to pay for it at any given chance

basically, you're using your own thoughts and internet rents to base an objective claim; anyone with some common sense will tell you that's not how it works

[half kiln]

I talk bad about the micro transactions. Its a short term investment and always has been. Ain’t talking about the gameplay. Both games have great gameplay. Fun as hell. As for bungie’s side we can all see what happens when players dont like the expansion. The news of that is already been told. Word of mouth is the most powerful ad tool.

[velvet dirge]

I mean, that's cool and all lol
but it has nothing to do with that you're factually wrong when you tried to claim they're losing money
sometimes it's ok to admit you were wrong

[half kiln]

Im not factually wrong but ok. They are losing profits. Not sure what you are talking about

[smoky wave]

Still waiting for that source on them losing profits

[velvet dirge]

ok, can you prove they are?

[young glen]

I don't have a horse in this race, but if I think you're referencing their 45% missed projections thing, that doesn't mean a net loss of profits.

[smoky wave]

Also this^

[velvet dirge]

seems like the source is "player sentiment"
which I assume is either twitter posts or reddit posts

[half kiln]

Its a long term loss

[smoky wave]

Most likely which in the end of the day it does not indicate the whole data on it
No one knows the exact data on the store except, of course, Microsoft

And saying that is on par of like D2 monetization is just wrong at this point (even more when there are worse monetization games out there)

[half kiln]

That is true. Microsoft usually doesn’t reveal that

[velvet dirge]

depends on if you find "ahhhhhhhh bungie suck bungie bad bungie doodoo" as data I guess

[white birch]

They didnt die. Halo wont either.
It takes a lot to flatten a AAA game company.

[velvet dirge]

kinda what i'm trying to explain to our bud here

[white birch]

Also; Destiny's monetizations worse because the stuff you can buy is laaammmee

Like, okay, cool.
I can make my Warlock look even more like he live sin a dumpster than he did before
Meanwhile in Halo;

(CE theme fires up as I aquire the MK V core)

So, from that angle, at least, the stuff your getting is better.
But that might be me just liking armored supersoldiers over...whatever weirdness Destiny has going on.

[half kiln]

You can still maybe buy it with bright dust

[white birch]

Not anything worth it, at least when I was playing last.

But then, I was a Warlock main so my interests were in them.
And all their stuff is robes and coats and whatever.

I want to loook like a Space Marine librarian why is that so hard

[half kiln]

I want to look like a medieval battle damaged knight

[white birch]

To each their own.

[half kiln]

Im just saying $100 for all the armor in that store is ridiculous

[white birch]

It is. But whos buying all of it?

Everyone Ive talked too has one, at most two sets they like, and they buy that for 18 bucks and then...thats it.

[half kiln]

There a guy in my friend group who will buy every single one

[white birch]

Okay.
So?
Its his money, you gonna tell him how to live his life?

[half kiln]

I am allowed to criticize a poor financial decision like everyone else especially if its a guy ive known for years

[velvet dirge]

weird, there is? I thought player sentiment is that people hate spending money of the game and its bleeding money left and right

[white birch]

Im sure the data is far skewed due to social media tunnelvision.

[smoky wave]

There is always people who are willing to pay everything

Sooooooooooooooooo

[white birch]

Its their money, let them make the call yeah?

[smoky wave]

Yeah lol

[velvet dirge]

I absolutely despise people who try to criticize others for spending money on mtx.

[white birch]

Have faith that perhaps they ARENT buying it because they're compulsive consumers and they are, in fact, perhaps, actually interested in owning it for one reason or another?

[velvet dirge]

it's my money, who are these people to tell me what to do with it?
maybe I work pretty hard for it and this is how I enjoy spending it?

[half kiln]

Theres nothing wrong with listening to the criticism

[white birch]

No one has too.

You can say critisism, but expecting anyone to actively care is an entirely different thing.
Say your peice. Make peace with it. Move on.

[velvet dirge]

when your criticism is "dont do that thing you like to do because I dont like when you do it" it's not critisicm, it's just being condescending

[white birch]

(Stealing that for reference)

[half kiln]

Yeah that would be condescending but i don’t approach it that way.

[velvet dirge]

telling people what to do with their money is pretty much condescending even if you don't "approach it that way"

[half kiln]

I would say: “that might be really cool and all but do you really need it or is it more of a want”.

[velvet dirge]

what kind of question even is that?

if that person buys it of course they want it

[half kiln]

If you can’t understand that question idk what to tell ya

[velvet dirge]

I definitely can based on your mindset, I just think it's incredibly out of place

(and again, condescending)

bottom line, just dont tell people what to do with their money.
think whatever you want about that all day long but keep these thoughts to yourself.

[smoky wave]

If they can afford and they want it, they are going to buy it
Next question

[half kiln]

I think it’s obvious you and I think much differently. Nothing wrong with that. I dont think we getting anywhere so lets just agree to disagree

[white birch]

Probably for the best considering nothing we say is going to be taken into consideration by anyone higher.

[half kiln]

Sadly this is true

[velvet dirge]

I mean
considering you still havent managed to back up your previous claim it's probably for the best, yep.

[half kiln]

The evidence is in usually in the store right in front of you

[velvet dirge]

The financial reports I asked you for when you said Bungie is losing money over Destiny 2 is in the store in front of me? what?

[ruby knoll]

ay low free

[unique finch]

I was just asking about Tenrai III coming back lol but love the MTX discussion. Learning a lot of different perspectives

[velvet dirge]

ah, Tenrai III wasn't that good tbh

[unique finch]

I just want the gear

[velvet dirge]

the best thing that it brought was the playlist

I do hope for you that they will bring past ops back, I missed many ops myself

[half kiln]

You and i both know the actual numbers wont be released but with the news that many projects were cancelled on top of employee layoffs we can make only an assumption about it. The dumbest decision I’ve seen from them was the construction on a new building when they were all about the remote work

[half kiln]

The sword one?

[velvet dirge]

dude, you're just basing your claim on thoughts instead of facts

[velvet dirge]

and yes, the one with infinite grapple and sword

[unique finch]

That’s all I ask. 343 can recycle content in post-season pass era and make $10 off me for an old op

[half kiln]

Was a decent playlist. Got boring after a bit tho

[half kiln]

Im basing my claims on what was reported. Idk what thoughts we are talking about here

[velvet dirge]

we have cyber showdown III and yappening II coming soon tbh

[unique finch]

Those don’t interest me as much but im at least ready to buy and store for filler content passes to progress on

[half kiln]

No Eagle strike love

[unique finch]

Luv eag strike

[velvet dirge]

ok, show me where it was reported that bungie are losing money over Destiny 2 cause less people are buying mtx
that's all I asked

[half kiln]

Its actually the only core i like

[velvet dirge]

eaglestrike is kinda lacking in good stuff rn sadly, cross-shoulders are a big life saver but i'm hoping for an op based around it soon

[half kiln]

Ill admit, i do not convey messages from my brain to text properly. So i probably messed that up above. My bad
Of course we only know predictions made by the company and the failure of those as well but we can also tie in the cancellation of projects and layoffs as well as those are other ways to save money. https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2023/12/28/destiny-2-is-a-2023-steam-platinum-earner-while-missing-revenue-projections-by-45/?sh=45ac37733e00

[unique finch]

We dropping Forbes articles in here wow. It’s like it is Monday morning and im looking for reasons why my options are dying on a vine

[half kiln]

Eaglestrike does need love.

[velvet dirge]

The key part here is that this is revenue and revenue projections, not profit/loss. As in, Destiny 2 brought in a lot of money, enough to put it in Steam’s top 12 (and no doubt high on console lists as well that aren’t public), and that’s alongside longrunning megahits like DOTA, Apex and PUBG, and 2023 monsters like Baldur’s Gate 3, Modern Warfare 3 and Hogwarts Legacy. However, Bungie projected much higher revenue than it had for the year, and it missed those numbers by 45%.

from your own example
which kinda means you proved the opposite of your claim 😂

[half kiln]

Eaglestrike also fits the mood of husky raid

[velvet dirge]

ikr? it's such a good looking core, a great base of a power-armor suit like look

[white birch]

Numbers

[half kiln]

Yes I realized that conveyed my perspective incorrectly. Ill take the Loss

[velvet dirge]

ggwp, you get a point for admitting when you're wrong.👊

[half kiln]

👍

Anyways more eaglestrike love would be appreciated

[velvet dirge]

yep, agreed

[unique finch]

I wonder how long Halo 5 will stay up and running

[worn iron]

LOL

That was me when somebody asked if Lockheed was still around in 2552

[open tinsel]

How often does this happen? https://imgur.com/a/rHvJQBu

[wide trout]

ive never seen it happen

those are phantoms btw

ghosts are the ones that float on the ground

[umbral light]

I saw someone comment on a youtube video that there's a marine called Dust N. Echoes in some Reach level, but I can find no results on this when I google. Does anyone have a clue?

I did find this image on Reddit, but no dice on what level this is. https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/e5py0l/noticed_this_while_playing_halo_reach_one_of_the/

or maybe marine names are randomly assigned?

[wise surge]

is there a way to check which mcc multiplayer is the one most alive

[slim flint]

select all of them and see which one you get first

[cunning sable]

Question for you all

Who wins, Master Chief or Doom Slayer?

[halcyon violet]

HALO: Infinite just crashed my Xbox Series X.

Ever since the CU29 update dropped it slowed the performance & framerate onto my Xbox when I pressed the home button.

[covert bobcat]

imagine if the ma5 came with a 60 shot mag

[brisk ibex]

Which is the best mode for the most xp gain in infinite?

[covert bobcat]

imo btb or firefight because I believe they both give more xp when you complete a game

also firefight is an easy way to farm multikills and killing sprees for challenges

[brisk ibex]

Fair enough thankuu

[finite river]

firefights more consistent and consistency is key

[vast glen]

Wait, multikills count in firefight? 😮
Do vehicle kills count too there?

[covert bobcat]

Most likely I normally skip those

[finite river]

every weekly challenge counts

capstones 50/50

[crystal iron]

Yeesh I’m reading the fall of reqch right now and I can see how Halsey really feels guilty with what she did

I get it kinda was a necessary evil but she still definitely doesn’t seem happy of what she is doing

[finite prawn]

so far poa and halo are easy paso levels

laso*

[crystal iron]

Looking forward to protecting keys in truth n reconcilliation and the library? :3

[finite prawn]

well i have all mcc achievements

ive done ce laso solo twice already

[crystal iron]

Dear god

[finite prawn]

the next challenge is to do every level twice in a row without dying

so far POA and halo are easy

[crystal iron]

I enjoy challenge in games, hell I beat doom eternal on UN! But I will NEVER… EVER.. Set foot in H2 laso

[finite prawn]

oh i think ce laso is harder than h2 but im the minority

only hard mission in H2 is gravrmind and thats only the first 10 min

gravemind*

[finite prawn]

you can argue the first mission is hard

actually no the first mission in h2 (cairo station) is really hard

its ridiculous the game slaps you in the face as soon as the game starts

[mighty cedar]

Is Reach Infection like dead or something in MCC?

Or do I need like Xbox Live even on steam?

Cause I use Ethernet but can't find a single match

[onyx latch]

Almost anything that isn't team slayer in 3 is dying on MCC.

[ruby lake]

why tho?

[sullen owl]

People go where the queue times are shorter and when a MP population starts to slow down a bit, it has an avalanche effect leading to other playlists dying.

[glacial tartan]

Is this referring to ranked? As someone who hasnt been playing Halo 3 as much recently im disappointed to hear this.

[glacial tartan]

Infection in general is lower populated in the mornings EST. More of a night-time gametype, similar to high level ranked (in the playlists that are active, not H2/Invasion etc that shouldnt be ranked). Not to mention infection is one of the most stale playlists (with no restrictions)!

[round forge]

I really wish there was an option to vote to boot players in Firefight as I went through an entire match with a teammate who refused to revive anyone and would straight up tea bags on top of the respawn beacons just to troll people and from what I could see in the chat everyone hated him.

[amber burrow]

In firefight, I kept getting into queue with this dude who would just try to run you over

[ruby lake]

mfw the last alive player doesnt take cover and dies (we were at the final round)

[amber burrow]

last man standing and then he thinks he's mint blitz and gets killed by a jackal

[ruby lake]

bro died to a needler

[amber burrow]

bro died to a jackal melee attack

[ruby lake]

fr

bro think he master chief

[amber burrow]

he is NOT hyper lethal

[rocky cipher]

onyx players and only being able to use the wasp or power weapons in BTB to get kills

[ruby lake]

TAKE COVER
SMHHHH

bro literally died from a brute slap

[ruby lake]

fr

they think theyre special

[rocky cipher]

I wish they just removed the wasp from the game entirely, it has added nothing of value

[ruby lake]

literally a flying easy target

built by glue and cardboard

[amber burrow]

One hydra clip and it's gone

[ruby lake]

fr

this elite tried to kick me

he is NOT a ninja 😭

[pure vault]

Fun fact: The Banished is a non-Prophet organization.

[uneven bison]

Ok that’s pretty good

[pure vault]

Thank you.

[amber burrow]

They should make that a grunt propaganda voice line

[pure vault]

They really should.

[ruby lake]

finally got into a firefight map that was revealed in a trailer

[half condor]

is it just me or is the motion tracker in infinite absolutely useless?

and i dont mean the gadget one

[ruby lake]

i completed the event pass
what now?

[finite river]

hero grind

[ruby lake]

its gonna take me a while to get there

[finite river]

something to do til the next op

[velvet dirge]

now you play for the sake of playing

[ruby lake]

more like not playing until the next operation comes

[half condor]

fr

i played this game for 3 days and i feel like ive experienced everything

done and dusted

[agile lodge]

That’s halo infinite for you

Even with the seasons, people would come back for short term and then leave. Not being able to garner mainstay attraction.

The only people who are here are people that stuck with the game since launch or so.

[velvet dirge]

I miss the time when people played the game for the game and not for the prize ngl

[ruby lake]

i literally only play this game for timed events

i used to play it every single day like my life depends on it but not anymore

[finite river]

iv been playin alot over the past 2 weeks

was doin 10hr sessions in firefight everyday to grind career ranks

[ruby lake]

all it offers are battlepasses and a progression system (career ranks) that just has the good stuff at the very end

[finite river]

do u not forge or anything

[ruby lake]

im tired of forging

so now im playing risk of rain 2

[finite river]

curious what u made in forge

[rough jay]

I’m not

😘

[pale nacelle]

18 bucks for a sniper rifle model

[tulip tusk]

i know lol they can make it $30 and people would still buy

[misty vale]

that pack is nutty. crazy honeypot

[velvet dirge]

And I paid all 18 bucks for it

[pale nacelle]

this is crazy I love 343 but this has to stop, this is a full priced game

[velvet dirge]

Wuh?

The mp is free bud

[pale nacelle]

yeah but most fans bought the campain

which was 60 bucks, so for the full experience its paid

[finite river]

i played thru it on game pass

[velvet dirge]

Which is still a very separate thing from the mp

The campaign being its own thing has nothing to do with it

[pale nacelle]

that doesnt make this a free game when its a part of the package, you can buy a physical copy, its not exactly a free game, even still, theres more than enough content for a 100 tier battle pass and store stuff

the more i see of this update the more heartbroken i am

[velvet dirge]

Bruh idk what you're yapping about ._.
If I can get it on its own for free it's a free game😂

There are lots of stuff related to monetization this game does badly

[pale nacelle]

half the game is paid, why is this okay? If you buy your contributing

[velvet dirge]

What you're describing isn't one of them

What half?

[pale nacelle]

the campain is half the halo experience

[velvet dirge]

The campaign is the campaign
The multiplayer is the multiplayer
They are separate things bud

[coarse dagger]

Halo Infinite multiplayer is completely free to play, it's separate from the campaign. Buying campaign does not mean you are buying multiplayer

[pale nacelle]

no but my point is calling halo infinite a free to play game isnt exactly acurate, plus 18 bucks for a sniper skin is robbery, ill take loot crates over this any day, if the community keeps buying 343 wont stop doing this

[coarse dagger]

It is accurate

You don't have to buy anything, it's completely optional

You can spend nothing and still play and earn rewards

[velvet dirge]

Top 10 reddit takes ngl

[velvet dirge]

Lootboxes were BAD dude, idk what you're smoking😂

[pale nacelle]

they sucked but this is a hundred percent worse, and halo infinite was marketed as a campain and multiplayer, so they are not seperate things

[velvet dirge]

Paying for a random chance to get something you might like is better than being able to buy what you see in front of your eyes?
Is that the hill you're gonna die on?

[onyx latch]

They were advertised separately and together, but the mp was always delineated as free.

[pale nacelle]

yeah cause it wasnt 18 dolars for a single weapon skin

[velvet dirge]

You're right, it was way more for a single skin that you don't even know if you'd want

[pale nacelle]

everything in halo 5 could theoreticaly be earned in game, i got everything i wanted and didnt buy any req packs

[velvet dirge]

When Halo 5 came out it hasn't needed to compete with games like Fortnite, Apex Legends etc

How do you compete with f2p games? With a f2p game.
How do you sustain a game that cost nothing? With MTX.

[pale nacelle]

yes micro transactions

the cost ofd the master chief collection is only a few bucks more than the stantion

[velvet dirge]

And it rebukes what I said how..?
Also why are you moving goalposts almost every 2 messages?

[pale nacelle]

id spend money if it was worth the price, halo 4 charged 3 bucks for 3 armour sets, given its technicaly free to play then id say 5 bucks for an armour set is much more reasonable, and ive not moved the goalpost, my point has always been that this is far to expencive, i dont have a problem with microtransactions there just a rediculous price for digital dress up

yes, and do you not see the problem with that?

[velvet dirge]

Price worth is subjective
Halo 4 is even older than halo 5 and had to compete with less games
I said earlier that the prices could and should've been better, but it has nothing to do with the campaign costing money, lootboxes "being better" (which they aren't) or any other point you made up

Also I'm pretty sure I already had the "stop telling people what to do with their money" discussion yesterday

[pale nacelle]

it costs 7 bucks to make my guns yellow like cmon do you not see the issue, if you could earn credits or if it was cheaper this wouldnt be as bad, and its not about compotition its about game companies being greedy

[tulip tusk]

they should quadtruple prices i want to see how many addicts would still buy

[pale nacelle]

theyd buy it because the industry is sick

[onyx latch]

Because that is irrelevant to playability.

Free to Play games are Free, to Play.

[pale nacelle]

and what exact;ly are our macro transactions funding?

[onyx latch]

You can play it all day for free, cosmetics do not affect gameplay, ergo, it is free to play, pay to customize.

Continued support and development either to Infinite, to the sequel, to the company's overhead in general, and/or to HCS.

[velvet dirge]

Technically wise, more content lol
So if anything you should be thankful for the whales😂

[pale nacelle]

all our content updates seem to be just store updates

[onyx latch]

It's amusing that despite growing up in a recession, most gamers are horrible at understanding the process of transacting for goods and services.

Or perhaps that's because of growing up in a recession.

[tulip tusk]

they def need more game content like vehicles and weapons, mostly it's been more cosmetics for shop sale. forge updates have been the best stuff so far but im starting to feel the lack of vehicles n guns, it's not interesting when the new stuff is cosmetic. returning modes are cool but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[velvet dirge]

The natural cycle goes on

[onyx latch]

It's usually one, the other, or both.

[pale nacelle]

i mean, wouldnt you rather buy a complete game than get a free game with a thousand dollars worth of cosmetics? Games sell more than they did in the 2000s, we cant let companies keep on screwing over the playerbase, especially cause we arent getting seasons

[velvet dirge]

Well, you have games made by passion individual and games made by corporates
When you play a game made by corporates prep for corporate strategies

[onyx latch]

All the sales of free items don't matter, development isn't cheaper at certain scales, and upkeep costs more than it ever did.

[velvet dirge]

You gotta calm down with the "rise up gamers" stuff for your own health bud, this is the market and it's going nowhere

[pale nacelle]

im upset to see something that is sort of like one of the only sorces of comfort become a glorified shopping mall

[velvet dirge]

Then don't play games made by corporates, play indie games

[onyx latch]

'Only sources of comfort' usually means you haven't looked for others.

[velvet dirge]

Once a while there's a new lightning in a bottle that shakes things up
Funny thing is Fortnite made passes popular, but PUBG made BR games popular to the point where Fortnite was made

[tulip tusk]

gaming may suck one day

[velvet dirge]

For some it sucks rn, and it's fine
But ranting about it and telling people who are still having fun what to do with their money leads to nowhere

[tulip tusk]

most things lead to nowhere lol let the folks rant it's good to have opinions out there

[velvet dirge]

I'll spoiler it for you, even if somehow the entire playerbase of this game decide to stop paying for mtx it won't budge anything in the market

[velvet dirge]

Maybe not when these opinions are "lootboxes were better" 💀

[tulip tusk]

new universe plus no mobile games exist in this universe run

[onyx latch]

Opinions are relatively worthless if the group behind them is uninformed. Impassioned arguments that gravity is fake doesn't make it any less real, for example.

[tulip tusk]

gravity is fake is a solid opinion it can lead to some interesting sci fi novels

[onyx latch]

Contrary to 'customer is always right' philosophy, you do need to have a broad and apt knowledge on things to provide meaningful criticism.

[pale nacelle]

at least you could earn the stuff by playing, thats better than not being able to do it without spending a fortune. My opinion on lootoxes are that in halo 5 you could at least unlock what you wanted through grinding, id rather that than a 40 dolar set of aromour

[onyx latch]

But could you play 5 without paying any money?

[tulip tusk]

i miss the amount of guns n vehicles in Halo 5 i had a lot of fun in warzone, if we had infinite forge in halo 5 wouldve been awesome

[velvet dirge]

"The customer is always right" is such a bs claim, I swear
I've seen so many games fall only because the devs fell to the aggressive begging of players who knew nothing about anything

[pale nacelle]

yall really think that these bundles are fairly priced?

[onyx latch]

How I feel about the pricing is irrelevant.

It doesn't change the game being free to play.

[pale nacelle]

it really is, its some of the most disgustingly overpriced stuff ive ever seen

[velvet dirge]

Why are you trying to tie up "are the prices good" with "is monetization model X better than model Y"?

[tulip tusk]

i think they should increase prices x5 make people spend more i just wanna see how much people would spend on it lol

[pale nacelle]

im not tho

[velvet dirge]

You are tho

[onyx latch]

I don't play Infinite to play dress up via money; I play it because the game is fun to play. If you like to play dress up, that is a you problem.

[tulip tusk]

i wanna see $1k / month Halo Infinite bill

[onyx latch]

It's typically malformed as a statement; The proper term refers strictly to taste.

[velvet dirge]

I feel personally attacked😂

[pale nacelle]

you know what, yall are right, i shouldnt tell you how to spend your money

my apologies for being so agressive

[velvet dirge]

Yep, sadly so many devs aren't sure enough of their abilities so they take ideas from people who never wrote a single line of code in their lives

All these people on Twitter who cried about Infinite's UI and "came up with a better mock up" without knowing the difference between painting a UI mock up and actually putting it in there🤦

Maybe, although I have no problems with it
But it's also way damn better than I can pull

[jagged crescent]

as i play the campaign, will the cosmetic, cores and other collectibles be on the map?

because in the missions i spend more time trying to look for them lol

oh i know that i meant will they be marked if i havent collected them yet?

so i can go get them after the doing the missions

[finite river]

pretty sure they do show up on the map if u have em discovered

the radio towers ul need a guide for

[jagged crescent]

ah okay

[lusty wraith]

Gonna say it’s just wild to me that people here will still argue about monetization and sustainability/viability when MS, the $3 trillion evaluated corporation has laid off hundreds of folks all from their games division in the past year alone. Just wild

It’s just the most counter-intuitive thing to put down people asking for better practices, but it’s just the norm because we love Halo so much here I guess

[velvet dirge]

Ah yeah Microsoft, the company that does only Halo stuff

[ruby knoll]

market cap != liquid assets

not to mention a good chunk of people asking for "better practices"

1. don't remember past monetization models
2. are asking for worse practices (eg bungie style map packs)
3. think that a "paid game" wouldn't be monetized further (disproved by halo 2<->5

[lusty wraith]

Yeah Microsoft, the company that laid off 343i employees despite “higher fidelity assets requiring more dev work”

[ruby knoll]

i think the current pricing is too high but cosmetic mtx is better than gameplay/feature mtx, especially when it segregates playerbases like bungie xpacks did

also very happy to not deal with xbl gold

[lusty wraith]

Ske7ch said that Mk V and monetization like it gives the necessary funding to continue Infinite development, but if the content is just more store bundles/cosmetic updates and forge updates then do you really think it’s worth it?

[crystal iron]

If i could ask for one minor thing, It'd be being able to see the "old games" people talk about. They are in the past for long enough they're just opinions now... and a damn good source of entertainment, still.

[ruby knoll]

forge updates
sure

[velvet dirge]

Maybe they weren't efficient? Maybe management was looking for something else? Idk and I'm not gonna praise them but I'm also not gonna think I know better, and I'm pretty sure you don't know either 🤷‍♂️

You can think I'm shilling for the corp, but I'm just not making a joke out of myself

[lusty wraith]

Most if not all the guys that got laid off were extremely talented. 343i has no shortage of great devs. You can insinuate that I’m making a joke of myself all you want but at least I’m not suggesting that those devs weren’t good at what they did

[zinc flax]

What do you guys think the Prophet of Sobriety’s routines are?

[velvet dirge]

So I guess you knew "most if not all" of them personally 🤔
I'm not instituting anything, I just don't know based on what you're criticizing Microsoft

[lusty wraith]

Still haven’t answered this @velvet dirge

[velvet dirge]

Idk what to answer about this because I'm not Microsoft, 343 or anyone that knows what they're working on and what they're not working on

[zinc flax]

Damn this sounds kinky

[half condor]

a fully paid game can be monetized further if youre actually getting your money's worth

[velvet dirge]

Assuming and basing are two different things

[lusty wraith]

So if all we get from Infinite in the future is modes, maps (most being forge), and forge toolset updates, that’s sufficient for people who are buying store items hoping for more content?

[half condor]

i will never understand the whole free to play multiplayer thing, its dumb no matter how i look at it

[ruby knoll]

i love how the community flipflops about how 343 devs suck <-> acktually we love 343 devs depending on the situation

[half condor]

there is MANY examples of good paid content for games out there

[velvet dirge]

Are you asking me or all the people?

[zinc flax]

It’s for publishers to justify MTX

[lusty wraith]

Replied to you, no one else is really talking about this here

[velvet dirge]

A free to play model means you can reach to more people, including kids and people with no sustainable income

[ruby knoll]

lowered barrier to entry

[half condor]

making multiplayer f2p obviously meant the only way 343 would make money is from microtransactions

[velvet dirge]

No, I mean you're talking with me but asking about "people"
For me it's sufficient, yes

[ruby knoll]

xbl gold is dead as a strategy in Microsoft's book so

[half condor]

hardly, when vast majority of players would likely buy it for the campaign as well

[velvet dirge]

Damn, fr? A business wanting to earn money

Absolutely revolutionary

[lusty wraith]

Good for you then I guess 👍

[ruby knoll]

that's certainly a statement

[velvet dirge]

Lmao

[ruby knoll]

divorced from reality, based only on vibes sure

but it's definitely a statement

[half condor]

thats not the issue, it goes without saying they need to make money, but theres good and bad ways of doing it

[agile lodge]

I don’t think anyone asked for a free to play halo game

[half condor]

same

[agile lodge]

But as you can see it comes as a consequence.

[ruby knoll]

cosmetic mtx (no effect on gameplay, doesn't segregate the playerbase, doesn't lead to premiums for features)

seems good to me

[ruby knoll]

i wanted halo without xbl gold

[half condor]

not when the base game is lacking in content, and f2p players get almost no customisation

[lusty wraith]

If it were me I’d hope for some sandbox revamps, weapons, a vehicle or two, re-introduce achievement based unlocks for old free content, etc

[agile lodge]

Halo Custom Edition and Halo 2 Vista

[velvet dirge]

And that's how I know you don't think about that from both sides, otherwise you'd see the business only cares about the "most profitable" way of doing it

[half condor]

people right now are literally playing for the free pass, and will ditch the game in a week after theyre done cause theres nothing else to grind for

[ruby knoll]

ah yes, the side projects that ended at 2 after xbl gold turned our to be a huge cash cow

[lusty wraith]

Think the biggest update to the game will literally be the MCC-like mode selector

[half condor]

and that is a core issue in the industry, all these devs are run by big corps who only know how to count money

[ruby knoll]

i remember when games didn't need skinner box treadmills to keep people playing. modern gaming i guess

[velvet dirge]

This is really gonna be unpopular here but I hate that mentality that you gotta have something to grind for to enjoy the game

[ruby knoll]

nothing new under the sun

[half condor]

a sense of progression is a big driving force for many players

[agile lodge]

You can still play them, and they’re fun

[velvet dirge]

It's not that you're wrong, obviously
more that it's not gonna change

[lusty wraith]

People have lives and there are other games. No matter how good the game is if it eventually feels like wasting time people will stop playing

[half condor]

true, unfortunately

[uneven bison]

Grinding is exceedingly lame

[ruby knoll]

ok
they weren't part of microsoft's core strategy considering they stopped after the profits from xbl gold became apparent

[velvet dirge]

ok, so... just play the game for as long as you can and want? if anything, if that's your opinion you should support mine since games you can enjoy without caring for "the grind" are the best for these kinda of people

[half condor]

but its harder to justify 343 when theres examples in gaming of how to properly monetize while caring for the playerbase. look at cp2077, lots of continuous support for the base game, for free, and a paid but significant content expansion

[agile lodge]

What sucks about the free to play model is you have to wait for the devs to drop feed content and that’s exactly what happened since they could t even commit to the 3 month season cycle. While it’s cool that you can have forge for free, the rest of the multiplayer experience is severely lacking. Player customization is the one thing that bothers me and its the core of Halo, armor cores are really limiting although it’s cool that we get to play as whatever spartan model we want. I don’t like the color coating system at all

[half condor]

or warframe, where almost nothing is paywalled and even premium currency can be earned for free

[ruby knoll]

i thought halo was an FPS

[agile lodge]

Why advertise you have a multi layer color coating system when it’s fully dependent on the devs to make it? You have no expression.

[velvet dirge]

You remember how that game launched, yeah?

[uneven bison]

Bad launches can cripple games permanently

[agile lodge]

They were to appease to the PC market wdym

[half condor]

you say that as if infinite is any better lmao

[ruby knoll]

why did h3 not get a port? odst? reach?

[half condor]

imo half the cores are a waste of time and resources

[uneven bison]

Literally just look at Jedi survivor, genuinely a good fun game but the launch was so awful most people tuned out

[agile lodge]

Halo infinite is one of them, had a huge trend when the game launched but after everyone saw the cracks of season 1 and 2, they all jumped ship

[lusty wraith]

I agree, but I also personally want to enjoy Halo, with my friends and others. You can say I’m stuck in the 360 era, but the feeling of goofing off in Halo with friends online is what I miss most in multi, and how it is currently is just not appealing for that kind of fun.

[velvet dirge]

Infinite was:

1. playable
2. didnt advertise itself as 10 times bigger than it actually was
3. so one "fail" is good enough to justify the other?

[agile lodge]

I still remember when people were on that copium and thought the game at launch was gonna offer more content than the multiplayer beta

[half condor]

cyberpunk was also playable, unless you were running it on crap hardware

[lusty wraith]

That progression system is about player retention, I’m sorry that people enjoy feeling rewarded for hitting certain milestones in the game

[velvet dirge]

ok, that's legit -but what does it have to do with the grind?
because again you're giving a perfect example for why focusing on the grind is bad

[half condor]

which is honestly a publisher's fault more than anything, cause a game like that should have never made it to previous gen

[agile lodge]

They dropped the PC market because Microsoft killed their games for windows live feature since it was so bad. I’m ngl, it was cool seeing a PC equivalent of Xbox live but was handled horribly

[velvet dirge]

yeahhh that's not true. Not at launch at least.

[agile lodge]

However I did manage to get achievements to Halo 2 Vista.

[lusty wraith]

Because the progression system - not grind because a GRIND would be like hitting Hero - is what helps with player retention

[half condor]

its very much true, vast majority of issue reports were from previous gen consoles

[velvet dirge]

also cyberpunk had the same dev and publisher

[lusty wraith]

It’s PART of it but a crucial aspect of keeping players interested

[half condor]

same dev and publisher, but not the same people

[ruby knoll]

Microsoft still published games for pc well past h2pc

[lusty wraith]

Infinite also doesn’t really play well with the ‘goofing off mentality’ but that’s not a monetization conversation

[ruby knoll]

i truly doubt modern gamers would be able to play old games without a billion achievement/progression belld and whistles going off every w5 seconds

[half condor]

has it ever played like that outside of custom games?

[velvet dirge]

but you just said you want to just have fun with friends and people? I dont understand where you're coming from

[agile lodge]

But they stopped with posting Halo as an exclusive since the game got backlash for the GFWL feature, needing to pay gold (which took away that requirement in 2008) and the halo 2 port only working perfectly for vista which not many people had at the time

[velvet dirge]

but still the same body lol
different departments maybe, but the same body

[agile lodge]

They couldn’t be bothered with putting their exclusives on the PC marker the same with gears of war after the first game

[half condor]

yea yea nitpick, point is theres different people calling the shots up top

my point is the same

[ruby knoll]

it's funny seeing systems that used to be called out for what they were, cheap attemts,at inflating playercounts/hours, now be lauded as a core part of the gaming experience

[agile lodge]

Forge is awesome but it doesn’t feel like H3/R forge custom games, it’s missing that social element

[ruby knoll]

vibes based comment

[lusty wraith]

I mean yea? The game is just completely built with different goals and ideas now compared to before

[uneven bison]

I need the Ubisoft HUD so I can’t see the game at all or I can’t play

[velvet dirge]

the shots up top people are those that were responsible for stuff like in game models literally having a temp placement error models?

[half condor]

dunno if i get what you mean lol

[agile lodge]

I liked the cores but the only ones I truly care about are the Halo Reach, MK VII, and Mark IV cores, the rest don’t look like Halo.

They look really ugly and out of place.

[lusty wraith]

Let me make it as clear as I can.
Better progression systems = better player retention

Better player retention = people I PERSONALLY played with before would be more likely to play the game

= enjoy Halo how I used to

Is that understandable? I don’t like having to dumb down my points this way

[velvet dirge]

lemme see if I understand you, wdym by "progression"? ranks or customization?

[half condor]

the people up top are ones who forced the devs to sink unholy amounts of resources into making the game compatible with previous gen consoles, something the initial design never intended. that was a huge waste of dev time and effort that should have been used towards finishing the game for pc/new consoles

[lusty wraith]

It’s a dead horse at this point do I need to bring up the loss of social aspects of the game with Infinite?

[agile lodge]

I agree, halo infinite should’ve been a next gen exclusive

[half condor]

this is exactly my point, again an unfortunate waste of resources

[ruby knoll]

achievement unlocked: took a step (+4000 xp)
achievement unlocked: looked at menu ([phone] xp)

RANK UP: ULTRA ONYX MEGA INHERITOR GENERAL 80TH PRESTIGE

now this is gaming

[agile lodge]

Eh, I thought it belonged in wolfenstein more than Halo

[velvet dirge]

that's also true, but there were still tons of technical disasters; either way, it's not a good example for the point you were trying to pass

[half condor]

we're talking about 2077 but yea

[ruby knoll]

modern gaming

[agile lodge]

Oh, that too yeah

At least they dropped it with phantom liberty

[uneven bison]

When my character get a quest marker for quest markers

[lusty wraith]

Achievement based unlocks? Path to customization that isn’t a temporary event or getting Hero or paying for store items?

[ruby knoll]

hayabusa doesn't belong in halo

[agile lodge]

That fit better than the samurai one in halo infinite

[half condor]

it is, the poor launch was never relevant to this. its still a great example of monetization and free continued support for the game

[lusty wraith]

What’s blows my mind is that MCC had achievement based unlocks but TEMPORARY

[velvet dirge]

Customization then
so you do enjoy the grind but from how you phrased yourself you want to play more casually

and still i'll argue games can be fun without worrying about customization, especially games like Halo

[lusty wraith]

like before you begged was awesome and should’ve been permanent

[agile lodge]

Marathon armor too in Halo 3, it actually looked like it belonged in the universe

[velvet dirge]

well, mostly because it's not a live service game nor a multiplayer game
different games from different genres

[agile lodge]

They butchered it with Halo Reach and beyond

[ruby knoll]

nah, hayabusa is literally a design lifted from ninja gaiden. Yoroi was designed from scratch

[half condor]

halo reach is goated

[lusty wraith]

What do you think a progression system means?? It doesn’t involve unlocking aspects of gameplay

[half condor]

and forever will be

[ruby knoll]

reach's progression was awful

[half condor]

wdym it was literally the best system out of all games

[agile lodge]

The hayabusa complimented to art style really well, and didn’t look weird or out of place, the one in infinite strays too far into the samurai aspect

[half condor]

the style isnt the issue, issue is it doesnt look like power armor at all

[lusty wraith]

Reach’s was good but I still prefer achievement based stuff, even H4 commendations

[agile lodge]

Team ninja also designed the hayabusa armor for halo 3 but they nailed it looking like halo still

[velvet dirge]

rank-based? like the profile ranks in Infinite, idk
i'm curious, how does unlocking new customization parts influence the gameplay itself? especially since your main point was about people with limited time

[half condor]

which is an issue for a lot of the cores tbh

[agile lodge]

Right

[ruby knoll]

it was intentionally stretched out and impossible to meaningfully progress offline

aka without paing for gold and such

[agile lodge]

I like halo reach, I just didn’t like the security helmet.

[lusty wraith]

I’m not condensing my points for you again, just read my above replies to you

[half condor]

reach was a multiplayer game first and foremost

[gray turtle]

Hey, did anyone else get a 12gb patch for MCC?

[agile lodge]

That’s evident with the cross progression throughout the entire game

[half condor]

paying for gold is just the hard life of xbox lol

[ruby knoll]

modern gaming moment

[lusty wraith]

Paying for gold was/is crazy, another thing that never needed to exist

[half condor]

lmao we didnt realise how good we had it back then

simpler times

[ruby knoll]

nah gold sucked

[agile lodge]

You can do challenges for offline I think

[velvet dirge]

I mean, you're kinda contredicting yourself every 2nd comment
you say stuff like "the feeling of goofing off in Halo with friends online is what I miss most in multi, and how it is currently is just not appealing for that kind of fun." and say you need to unlock customization parts often to have that fun

[young glen]

It's mindblowing that Microsoft and Sony still require paid subscriptions to play online when a good chunk of the most played MP games are free. It just punishes traditionally monetised MP games even further.

[ruby knoll]

do you know that multiplayer existed before gold

[velvet dirge]

multiplayer existed before Microsoft (kinda)

[lusty wraith]

One is what I as in ME PERSONALLY miss the most. The other is what facilitated that environment and what had people logging in all the time

[half condor]

considering how much money people spend nowdays in microtransactions, gold really wasnt that bad in retrospect

[gray turtle]

Imma keep it real 343 fellas, Infinite in its current stage is playable but it has a long way to come before it truely feels like a proper halo game

[ruby knoll]

nooooo halo 2 invented multiplayer

[young glen]

Yes, your point?

[ruby knoll]

not a reply to you

[gray turtle]

Multiplayer existed in CE. Just not matchmaking.

[velvet dirge]

but I'm talking with you rn, not with "people"
I want your take

[half condor]

with that garbage campaign story, it never will feel like one

[young glen]

Oh sorry Siege.

[agile lodge]

Too bad that won’t happen, they abandoned the season model and started winding down

[gray turtle]

I know but you do gotta admit that firefight is pretty decent for what its worth

[lusty wraith]

Explain to me how I can get that feeling of goofing off in Halo with friends if those friends don’t play the game

[agile lodge]

It felt like something that should’ve been told through a book, cause it leads to something greater you don’t see

[ruby knoll]

likes reach
infinite story bad

@onyx latch we got a live one

[agile lodge]

Also the endless is just a cheap cop out to introduce a greater threat than the flood.

[velvet dirge]

you find friends that don't care about unlocking new clothes every 10 min
you turn on the game
you invite them to the group
you launch a match
profit

[agile lodge]

I don’t like how they have to tell us that, they don’t show it at all. It’s so cheap. Compare to the flood reveal of Guilty Spark mission.

[ruby knoll]

s'all good

[lusty wraith]

I’m sorry but my friends aren’t my friends because they played Halo once upon a time

[half condor]

reach was a prequel, and a good one at that

[velvet dirge]

ok? point still valid

[half condor]

infinite erazed halo 5 offscreen

[covert bobcat]

reach and wars 1 correct?

[lusty wraith]

It’s not a point but ok

[ruby knoll]

reach was bungie being upset over TFoR, 10 years after the fact

[ruby knoll]

bungie was uninvolved (and in fact, hostile+opposed) to hw1

[half condor]

wars 1 is kind of a prequel, but also a standalone so

[covert bobcat]

what about the other spinoffs

[inland minnow]

not aimed at anyone or any message in particular, but we're sort of generally drifting towards uncivil debate a little bit folks.

lets try not to insult others or get heated over opinions please, thanks guys!

[half condor]

damn that makes me think of wars 2 ending which makes everything even worse

[agile lodge]

They had their own version of Halo that wasn’t articulated to the expanded media

As far that they were concerned, halo was their story, no one else’s

[ruby knoll]

bungie signed away the rights to Microsoft so no

[velvet dirge]

I'll sum it up - I find that the modern mentality of "I can't enjoy the game if I have nothing to grind for or a goal to strive for" is... pointless.
Some games can and are supposed to be enjoyable even if you're out of challeneges to complete to finished your pass

[agile lodge]

They did that since halo 1’s development but they had a vision

[ruby knoll]

if bungie wanted full control they had that option

[agile lodge]

Not really, Microsoft bought them during halo 1’s development

[half condor]

i dont really understand why 343 felt the need to retcon/offscreen all of halo 5, the overarching story in halo 5 was good, just the weird chief hunt & not playing as chief was dumb

[agile lodge]

They also brought the rights to it too.

In order for bungir to break free from Microsoft, they had to sign off on a few more halo games.

[lusty wraith]

But that’s the entire point of live service games. You think it’s stupid sure but they build game systems solely to monetize that desire

[ruby knoll]

bungie agreed to the terms yet also seemed to not want to play by the terms they agreed to

[half condor]

really its two things that should go hand in hand

[agile lodge]

I thought halo 5 was really corny and not in a good way.

Felt like a MCU flick more than anything. Like Josh Wheaton wrote it

[half condor]

like i said, the chief hunt aspect was dumb af and served no purpose

[velvet dirge]

I disgaree, it's a point but not the point
you can play 100 matches after completeing the op and still have fun even without the "you unlocked X" screen

[ruby knoll]

TFoR got made because bungie failed to write a script for CE, so Microsofts writers were brought in in exchange for the book deal

[agile lodge]

Cause they didn’t want to be in the clutches of Microsoft which often demanded them a bit too much.

[half condor]

especially since if they were gonna ignore all that in infinite, may as well have made locke a proper bad guy in 5, at least wed get to see blue team fold him in half and ship him back to ONI, prime delivery

[ruby knoll]

and despite Microsoft bailing out bungie, they were still hostile, for example not letting them view the game they had to write the script for. Truly petty stuff

[agile lodge]

It was just to promote Halo CE that’s it, there’s only a throwaway line to the book in the intro of the game and that’s it

[half condor]

hehehe its the clone wars all over again

[ruby knoll]

Again, if Bungie wanted full control, they had that option in the form of not agreeing to the deal with Microsoft

[agile lodge]

Dude they took the deal since Halo 1’s development and they were backed in a corner during that time

Since they were a small software studio that produced a few small projects

[onyx latch]

I mean I don't like either story much so

[agile lodge]

But Microsoft was setting ambitious expectations on them that were sometimes unrealistic

[ruby knoll]

i'm sure they could have found other options

[agile lodge]

However the Halo 2 crunch was entirely Bungie’s fault tho

[ruby knoll]

since apparently bungie hates working with anyone

[agile lodge]

But Microsoft did want them to release the game originally in 2003 which was not enough time

[agile lodge]

Their former work culture was anti-suit

[ruby knoll]

ok

it's not like Microsoft was an unknown variable

bungie knew what they were getting into

[agile lodge]

During their acquisition to Microsoft they were fearing that MS would get rid of their work culture, luckily they didn’t

[ruby knoll]

*unfortunately they didn't

perhaps they would've learned to work with others better?

[agile lodge]

And for that reason you can see why Halo 1-3 is the most consistent trilogy compared to 343 where they were stashed away in cubicles not having any talk with one another

[ruby knoll]

lmao

stashed away in cubicles

fight da man!

[agile lodge]

Yeah, for sure but they didnt want to lose their identity as a studio, they had a vision for the halo franchise

[ruby knoll]

they also had an agreement with Microsoft

which they, y'know

agreed to

if i didn't like the terms of a deal i would not accept it or try to negotiate

maybe they were blinded by the Microsoft money

[agile lodge]

Because they were allowed to be independent within their gaming division. The only issue is that Microsoft had huge expectations from them.

[velvet dirge]

which is probably why they went and sold themselves to activision right after the Microsoft break-up 😂

[ruby knoll]

and then to sony

[agile lodge]

Yeah, trading one villain for another

[velvet dirge]

For a bunch of folks that dont like suits they sure love their pockets

[agile lodge]

Then when they finally got their independence, they got bought by Sony

[agile lodge]

Blame the upper management at bungie

That’s why most of the ex halo devs left or got fired

[ruby knoll]

oh no, poor wholesome bungue viciously being not-forced into a voluntary agreement by snoy

[agile lodge]

Upper management had something to do with that, not the entire studio

They wanted to fill their pockets, money is too good

[velvet dirge]

the upper management usually in charge of all the whoopses, generally
they're still the faces

wow the blacklist here is really strict

[ruby knoll]

pretty much

they want the big megacorp money while playing the freewheeling smol indie dev role

[agile lodge]

They don’t reflect the rest of the studio who are the developers

[velvet dirge]

they're part of the studios one way or another

[agile lodge]

Again it’s why a bunch of ex halo devs left to pursue other projects

[ruby knoll]

so then why did the devs not leave after the Microsoft acquisition?

Microsoft was a known variable

[agile lodge]

Activision killed destiny’s original idea

[velvet dirge]

Then Bungie broke with activision as well and decided to trash Destiny 2 themselves

[agile lodge]

Because they liked the studio they’ve been working with and were looking to form their own independence after Halo Reach, which was short lived because of activision

[velvet dirge]

I thought its already known activision wasnt really the problem in that relationship

[dawn brook]

Question, unrelated to the current topic I apologize, is some items missing from selection/the store? Like Rockeye?

[agile lodge]

Again a decision made by the upper echelons of bungie, not the entire studio itself

[ruby knoll]

like Jason Jones? aka one of the founders of tiny indie dev bungie? Jason Jones the guy who's still with bungie?

[velvet dirge]

some items aren't available for now and are locked away, yeah

[agile lodge]

Yeah, he just loves money in his pocket now, he actually was done with working on halo after Halo 2.

[dawn brook]

Will they return at all?

[agile lodge]

That’s why he wasn’t involved with Halo 3, ODST, or Reach

[velvet dirge]

sadly we do not know and we won't have the means to know

[dawn brook]

Fun. Is it a known issue they're working on?

[velvet dirge]

ah no, it's not an issue
it's amm... their choice

[dawn brook]

Wait so Rockeye is just not in the store at all? They just got rid of it?

[agile lodge]

Marcus Lehto, Marty, Joseph Staten, Shi Kai Wang, Jamie Griessemer were the top dogs of why halo became what it is.

[velvet dirge]

idk for sure on that particular item, I can just tell you that some stuff are currently vaulted until further notice

[ruby knoll]

michael salvawho?

[dawn brook]

Okay... That's a bit disappointing. Thanks though for the quick answer

[wind delta]

Ngl there's not really such a thing as genuinely good bungie pvp 👀

[onyx latch]

What a poor pedigree.

[agile lodge]

It’s called Halo 3

[wind delta]

Halo CE to Destiny 2, I generally think they don't know how to do pvp as well as campaigns

[agile lodge]

Bait

[ruby knoll]

bungie's pvp has always been "ok"

[agile lodge]

It literally started MLG

“it’s okay”

It literally became a competitive shooter without ever trying to be, that’s how good the system was. You can’t be competitive if you don’t have a good foundation for it to be.

[onyx latch]

Eh, competitive gaming tournaments existed long before MLG.

[ruby knoll]

halo 2 mp is well known to be buggy af

[agile lodge]

But Halo popularized that with MLG, again without even trying to be because it always focused on the casual part of it.

[ruby knoll]

no no just like multiplayer, halo 2 invented competitive gaming

[onyx latch]

MLG was also started before Halo 2's launch.

[agile lodge]

And still regarded as one of the best multiplayer shooters

You probably BXR combo’d

[onyx latch]

Doesn't mean it's actually all that good lmao

[onyx latch]

Bannable offense

[wind delta]

Bungie is mostly relevant because of memes, like MLG 🗿

[ruby knoll]

more for the novelty of matchmaking rather than gameplay quality

[agile lodge]

The amount of options for the multiplayer, the modes, the social aspect is what made it really good, only perfected by Halo 3.

[wind delta]

Im not saying Bungie is bad ofc, its just that the transition from pve to pvp is like being on the peak of mount everest and then falling to the bottom

[agile lodge]

The gameplay quality was good that’s why it launched a competitive scene

Again Halo 3 was the amalgamation of that.

[wind delta]

I guess its more that it was good before modern gaming was possible, though thats just me

I mean modern like within the last 7 or so years, definitely not the recent ones where everything sucks

[agile lodge]

If the gameplay wasn’t fun, or just okay, then there wouldn’t have been a competitive, casual, or custom games scenes out of it.

[ruby knoll]

it was lucky and well saturated due to its massive ad campaign.

[agile lodge]

If you want to talk about crappy multiplayer look no further than MW2 2009, that is the most unfun multiplayer I’ve ever played and the most broken

[wind delta]

Of course it was fun back whenever it was released, its just that I feel the campaign did much better at aging than the multiplayer

[ruby knoll]

h2 was popular yet its popularity waned

[agile lodge]

Uh are we forgetting Halo CE? Halo CE thrusted Halo to popularity, 2/3 just cemented it with XBL.

[wind delta]

I can still enjoy the campaigns, but mp feels empty and soulless by comparison

[ruby knoll]

if you want truly lasting popularity, look at AoE2

[agile lodge]

Where by who? Probably from Halo Reach players and beyond

[agile lodge]

I respect your opinion

[ruby knoll]

aoe2 is a game that still has an active community with many competitions

[agile lodge]

I’m not that good at halo multiplayer anymore but it’s multiplayer is a big foundation of why it became popular in the first place.

[ruby knoll]

i think the ad campaigns, wide open market, and other factors were pretty significant

[agile lodge]

Even with Halo 1 which didn’t have online, was insanely popular due to the system link feature.

[ruby knoll]

old halo would fail to compete in the modern market

[agile lodge]

If you’re saying halo only became popular because of those factors you’re smoking bud. Again halo has a good gameplay foundation that other gaming studios took notes from.

[ruby knoll]

just look at MCC's ever-waning popularity

[agile lodge]

The campaign AI is engaging to fight and the levels are fun to tread through, while the multiplayer is addicting to play because of the gameplay, modes, and maps it offered not to mention the wide customization and flexibility it offered

[ruby knoll]

compare it to AoE2's consistent numbers

[sullen owl]

Compare that to Minecraft's numbers. Check mate, acSiegemstrs.

[onyx latch]

Good social, but competition there was scarce. Doesn't make up for the games shortcomings now.

[ruby knoll]

other games had multiple modes

[agile lodge]

To be fair it’s a collection of games that were popular and had higher player numbers a decade ago or so ago

[covert bobcat]

They’re old games

[agile lodge]

Not a great comparison, it’s better to look at the original player numbers to see what I’m talking about

[covert bobcat]

If they were released today with today graphics and stuff it would be great

[ruby knoll]

aoe2 is more popular than the entire mcc

[onyx latch]

Of course, halo fans tend to ignore gaming history in favor of coping by pretending halo came up with every idea ever that relates to gaming.

[ruby knoll]

aoe2 predates halo

[covert bobcat]

What’s aoe2

[agile lodge]

Again why did Halo 2 popularize MLG? Halo 3 followed? You can’t have a mediocre gameplay system and form a competitive scene out of it, the gameplay systems have to be great in order for that to happen

Just say that you’re bad at multiplayer bro

[sullen owl]

Irrelevant to the FPS genre of gaming, which Halo competes in.

[onyx latch]

Actually you absolutely can

People love mediocre games all the time.

[ruby knoll]

age of empires 2, a game that enjoys a far more active scene than halo ce<->4

[agile lodge]

Doesn’t list any examples lmao

[onyx latch]

Literally every NFL in FIFA game for the last decade at least

[agile lodge]

Didn’t come up with, it popularized.

[covert bobcat]

Halo directly competes with cod who cranks out a game every year including 2 mw in 2 years

[onyx latch]

There's the other cop

[agile lodge]

That’s because it’s sports game, those are a different breed of players. They’ll buy the same game 5 times.

[ruby knoll]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Empires_II

ensemble studios getting the last laugh from beyond the grave

[onyx latch]

You asked for examples, I gave you examples. You don't get to re-dictate just because you got disproven.

[agile lodge]

It’s almost like AOE2 had a longer PC community than Halo MCC did, the bigger community is on console.

Again Halo is a console shooter first and foremost.

[ruby knoll]

mcc fell off the xbox top 50 years ago

[sullen owl]

Your examples came after their message. lol And those are sports games, not competitive shooters. Stay in the genre. lol

[agile lodge]

You gave a cheap example because sports games have the most brain dead consumers

[onyx latch]

Sports games fit the bill sorry man I don't make the rules

[agile lodge]

That’s not even a competitive shooter either

[sullen owl]

Ah yeah, NBA2k14 with a Glock.

[agile lodge]

List an actual mediocre competitive shooter

[ruby knoll]

halo 2

popularity != quality

[agile lodge]

Again widely regarded as the pinnacle of competitive gaming

[ruby knoll]

simple as. Bad balancing, broken input handling, etc

[agile lodge]

It became popular because of its quality and halo 2’s MP is fun

Again you can’t form a competitive scene if the gameplay is good enough, that’s just a fact.

[ruby knoll]

literally rushed out the door without playtesting for balance

[agile lodge]

And yet people still played it well after Halo 3 launched

Again still beloved.

[ruby knoll]

the gameplay was acceptable enough for the time and platform

[agile lodge]

It’s not my favorite by a long shot, but it’s a fun multiplayer in its own right and laid the stones for Halo going forward during that era. Again you can’t mention a fun multiplayer game without mentioning halo 2.

[ruby knoll]

i can though

[agile lodge]

“Acceptable” lol

[ruby knoll]

Age of Empires 2 for example. or Age of Mythology. Or WC3.

[onyx latch]

It is hilarious that I was asked for an example of a popular mediocre game series, provided one, and then got told I cannot use an apt example because it is "" too Cheap "". It is almost as though that is because it was a good example of a mediocre yet popular game franchise.

[agile lodge]

It’s almost like they were on a crunch or something and even then, they still managed to knock it out of the park.

[ruby knoll]

halo 2 could not compete today

[agile lodge]

Again it formed competitive shooter scene that only became popular because of how good the multiplayer system was

Wouldn’t have happened if the multiplayer actually sucked.

[sullen owl]

It'd be like Quake Champions. It's just too antiqated in the shooter genre. Name recognition is "for boomers"

[ruby knoll]

the competitive shooter scene*

*on xbox

[agile lodge]

You didn’t list a competitive shooter, just a sports game

[ruby knoll]

it doesn't suck it's just not great

[sullen owl]

Kids are all about their Apex Legendeses and Fortnites.

[wind delta]

(as bungie's halo is popular for)

[agile lodge]

In general, it influenced the likes of other games too.

[ruby knoll]

h2, despite being the most accessible it's ever been, can't compete

[agile lodge]

Quake champions isn’t as talked about as III

III is still one of the best arena multiplayers shooters and it can’t be replicated

And it still has a player base

[ruby knoll]

actually it can be replicated as evidenced by the 50000000 forks and clones of the game

[agile lodge]

None are remembered as quake 3.

[ruby knoll]

it's always bothered me that halo never has had an engine clone done

[agile lodge]

I honestly can’t tell you a memorable arena shooter than quake 3 and unreal tournament

[ruby knoll]

surely some of the billions of fans could make an engine clone

[agile lodge]

Wdym

[wind delta]

Some old games are good, but some are more like museums - fun to visit and see the history, too mind-numbingly boring to stay for most

[sullen owl]

It's kind of wild, yeah. Though all of the Halo fan games seem have to fizzled out. Guessing that's more on "oh, we have talent, we can just get jobs in industry and make money."

[ruby knoll]

doom, quake, civ, etc all have a few clones floating around

[agile lodge]

Can’t say that about Halo tho

[ruby knoll]

halo, despite its undeniably large fanbase, and 20+ years, has none

[agile lodge]

It can’t be cloned, it’s that unique.

[ruby knoll]

lol no

[sullen owl]

Could probably point towards it not having a great PC history.

[wind delta]

I would hard disagree

Halo is one of the examples of what Im talking about imo

[agile lodge]

You can literally hop on Halo CE right now and you can still play through it

[wind delta]

I mean mp, the campaigns are fine

[agile lodge]

The controls and gameplay aged well, the level design did not tho

However it’s not like a DOOM 1 situation where if you weren’t alive to play it during the 90’s you would have no idea where to go since it’s a maze because fps shooters during that time where from a different era

[agile lodge]

Multiplayer is still being played via halo custom edition and the smaller Xbox scene.

Again halo multiplayer is casual to its core which makes it easy to get into

[ruby knoll]

https://github.com/MissLavender-LQ/LibreQuake/

i'm fairly certain Microsoft's gcur would allow for a fan-clone

[onyx latch]

You asked for a mediocre game. I provided. you did not specify anything except "competitive". Also, while I will say I am not exceptional when it comes to competitive gaming, that does not preclude knowing the history of competitive games, nor does it preclude being knowledgeable on the subject. It is not like you need to be good at football to understand the sport or its history.

[agile lodge]

You didn’t list any competitive shooter, invalid

Okay nerd emoji 🤓

Saying big words to make yourself look like the wiz kid

[onyx latch]

Scared of big words? Booga Booga! Excelsior! Booga Booga!

[sullen owl]

Average discord nitro user moment. :/

[onyx latch]

Discord users are either terrified of two syllable words, or absolutely love them. There is no in between.

[wind delta]

You could popularize MLG in FPS Chess if you really wanted to, Halo was just popular

[ruby knoll]

@onyx latch https://libregamewiki.org/Potato_Killer

goty 2kforever

[sullen owl]

Pale is right on most accounts here, a game cannot be a competitive shooter without it having a solid base for play, in compare to the other games on the market. If the game doesn't have a solid core where stuff isn't too random feeling, it cannot have a long lived comp scene. Counter Strike is huge for this, guns have predictable patterns to them, the networking is tight, and you know if you lost it's because you weren't better than the other people.

The alternative path there is CoD, which at its core is nonsense, fun, but nonsense. What it does have though, is the ability to be altered with custom game settings to make it more competitive, the same way Halo MLG was ran forever and HCS is today. MLG teams weren't playing base Halo, settings were all over the place to fit what that subset of players found more competitive. What's cool is Halo allowed this and the core gameplay that non-MLG players did have available in MP was generally consistent and fun, but it's also just what everyone else on Xbox was playing. Things shifted pretty rapidly with CoD 4 onward.

Halo 2 was the competitive shooter for consoles at the time, because it didn't have much to compete with. PC was another story. Halo 2 could absolutely not come out and compete today if left without updates and system changes. Too buggy, too janky, too slow for the modern Zoom Zoom gamer. "No jetpack? No slide? No sprint? Ugh."

[wind delta]

I mean even if you had all that stuff that made it fit the modern zoom zoom gamer, it still wouldn't be considered that great

I think it would be called "wannabe titanfall"

[tacit tartan]

Halo 5 had the zoom zoom stuff and people loved the multiplayer in that.

[sullen owl]

Right, they're in a funky spot with trying to bring in younger gamers to the series. What a lot of younger gamers want just isn't Halo.

[wind delta]

Its a more modern game, Im just saying the old games had the benefit of being old

[wind delta]

And as a result, people think 343 is actually worse than Bungie, when in reality they're just in a different time that requires more difficulty to develop

[agile lodge]

Because of its fun gameplay systems
.

[wind delta]

Art aside, most people could probably recreate the Bungie halos with ease

[sullen owl]

OG Bungie was pretty GOATed with the sauce though. The tools they had at the time, to make what they made, pretty solid design and execution.

[wind delta]

Yes, at the time they were absolutely awesome, it just hurts my nostalgia that it hasn't aged as well as I remembered

[sullen owl]

Bungie is still top of the line for lighting without ray tracing. Destiny 2 looks beautiful.

[agile lodge]

More like incompetent management, lack of any consistent direction, and for some reason over ambition and under delivering.

343ms trilogy feels really inconsistent

[wind delta]

You wanna look at modern Bungie? They're even worse, arguably

[agile lodge]

Yeah I know that, which is why I refer to the old bungie.

[wind delta]

Laid off a large portion of their team so the higher ups could get their bonuses, they can't keep their seasonal model straight nowadays, and you can bet Final Shape is gonna be one of the worst DLCs ever

Old bungie is good and all, but it didn't take as much to make a game either