#halo-discussion

1 messages · Page 62 of 1

onyx latch
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Which would've been neat as a side concept.

grim citrus
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That would’ve given it the “not halo” stamp of disapproval

onyx latch
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It was one of the coolest design things for 4/5 though-A variant of GEN2 had radically different operations to another. Atlas would've been beefier but provided less sensor usage as Deadeye, for example.

grim citrus
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Outside of chiefs armour, which I’m not exactly fond of, there’s not a single piece of infinite armour I enjoy

onyx latch
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I kinda see the core system as being a spiritual successor to that design philosophy.

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Which I like.

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Because I like that design philosophy.

grim citrus
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It relies too much on the nostalgia factor instead of innovation

onyx latch
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I don't think Rakshasa or Osteo are nostalgic.

grim citrus
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Talking about Chief’s armour

onyx latch
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Oooooh

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Well, it's still based off of a 343i design

fathom sandal
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Most LASO yes are like extremely hard, completing all the LASO playlists is the rarest achievement in MCC with it saying 0.00% of players have achieved. But nightfall, you could really cheese it and get it done in under 10 minutes.

onyx latch
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And frankly it's the best of the nostalgia-bleeding variations of Mark VI.

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Mark VI MOD not being nostalgic, because, well, it's not exactly the same I guess.

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Because MY GOD is it a beefcake of an armor.

grim citrus
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I liked the concept of the undersuit being the star of the show and that the armour is more of “as one” with the person idea

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Now it just looks like a bunch of pieces attached to the person

onyx latch
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I think there's merit to both design philosophies so long as it's not Mark Vb.

fathom sandal
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Multiplayer ones seem straight forward. But those look to be monthly challenges. 150 games a week is a lot that would like 25 hours of gaming averaging 10 min a game. Same thing with 1000 kills and 50 wins.

grim citrus
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Meh

magic night
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Reach didn't have monthly challenges. Just daily and weekly.

And I said, you couldn't cheese Nightfall because you were required to do specific missions. Even if you could, Nightfall requires know-how to cheese that would be beyond the means of most "casual/low-skill" players.

fair egret
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@pliant palm I hate halo

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big reason why it's only on an xbox

pliant palm
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so you joined just to tell me that?

grim citrus
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Inb4 bot

fair egret
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yes

pliant palm
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ty for your engagement

fair egret
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ur welcome

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type as much as you want my opinion will not change

full warren
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can't believe people abuse mm in social, 3 man pre-made with only 50 games played is literally runing the whole team slayer queue because match making think they are noobs when they are all smurfs literally unplayble

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and another 2 smurfs with only 2 games played each with 15KDA

signal ivy
fathom sandal
slim flint
fair egret
magic night
fathom sandal
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That's not gonna do it, be reasonable. Provide constructive criticism not do it better

fair egret
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who

grim citrus
fair egret
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becuase it xbox

pliant palm
grim citrus
fair egret
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everything

grim citrus
fair egret
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it's green

grim citrus
magic night
balmy cypress
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Blud likes sonic 💀

signal ivy
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so anyway

balmy cypress
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Let’s talk about how halo 2’s anniversary graphics look better than real life

grim citrus
pliant palm
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then pls stop engaging him

grim citrus
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The guy left

full warren
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The key is to out complain him, I didn;t even notice him

glacial tartan
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Anyone with a steamdeck see if MCC is still broken today? I havent checked since last night

pliant palm
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we're aware of that, Panda

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it's being looked into

livid fable
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someone told me husky raid is coming back. Hype.

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Dopamine surge.

signal ivy
onyx latch
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Oh.

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I... Hope the Super's a low occurance.

open umbra
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I really don't know how the game considers whether the energy sword kill are counted as melee kills or not.
In normal circumstances, the sword kills doesn't seem to be counted as a melee kill, yet I somehow completed all weekly challenges (minus the ultimate one of course) with two melee kill challenges included just playing tenrai social.

slim flint
open umbra
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I only use RT(firing weapon) in those matches though.

slim flint
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huh

stone nimbus
open umbra
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Maybe those trades with sword clashes are considered to be melees?
I got some of those during matches.

stable tapir
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I am pretty good at Halo 3 imo

low musk
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I remember in Halo 3, the only way two people killed in sword clashes was either an ally intervened and took the kill, or one person misinputted at the wrong time

open umbra
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Speaking of swords, do you guys think the sword block mechanic in reach needs to be added into infinite?

onyx latch
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No.

slim flint
glacial tartan
# slim flint you could block with swords?

Lot of different terms for it - clanging was a personal favorite. But rather than simply trade in H3/HR you could tie melees as described by runescythe9852 above. Normal melee and Lunge melees had different mechanics/ranges.

onyx latch
open umbra
# slim flint you could block with swords?

Starting from H3, the sword can clash to each other with both sides swing at the same time.
In H:R, there's a mechanic that you can block a sword swing with a well timed melee, which just like the parry with the grav hammer in H:I.

keen compass
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hey I wanted to ask if it's just me experiencing this issue but everytime I play on tenrai social playlist the ping starts stable and gradually becomes unplayable?

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or is it players using lag switches

coarse dagger
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Nobody is using lag switchers on dedicated servers in 2023

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They'd only be shooting themselves in the foot

keen compass
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I have no idea what is happening then

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I've had two instances where the match becomes unplayable but the rest really smooth

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over 500ms on those instances

wise lichen
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could be desync, not sure though

scarlet shuttle
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A guy just got mad at me because I was walking invisible with the flag in hand so they wouldn’t know my position. 😂 He said I was a scrub because I wasn’t running and dumping the flag to score fast.

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I explained to him that when you aren’t running, they can’t see your position if you ain’t in their sight. He replied: Why do you act like you know better?

People have to chill a bit.

wise lichen
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depends on the situation, if you're close to the base and know the enemy isn't near, then its best to just flag juggle

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but for the most part, dude needs to relax

scarlet shuttle
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I scored the final point while 3 sword passed by me without noticing me because I was hidden behind a wall.

wise lichen
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hell yeah man, nice

scarlet shuttle
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Everytime I take the flag, I walk away first. All the time. It’s enough to stress the other team and make them split to search you. Helps the team swipe the floor, and like you said, once you are close enough and feel no risk, run or juggle.

arctic copper
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Flag taken

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Flag dropped

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Flag taken

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Flag dropped

wise lichen
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Flag captured

frosty condor
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Flag juggling is so fun

livid fable
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You know

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I knew the melee stuff was odd.

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but that's the first time i've ever self-destructed with a sword.

civic sundial
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Did you stumble and impale yourself?

livid fable
civic sundial
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Fair

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Did you at least get a video of it happening?

livid fable
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it's in my match history. i'll get it later.

ivory glacier
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Tbh I’ve had much more success just straight flag juggling the whole way than creeping across the map. Try to take as many enemies as i can and then just go for it. I’ll drop the flag if I have to fight and hopefully we have the numbers to hold them off. Doesn’t work every time but it’s been better for me than trying to be all stealthy

celest heron
ivory glacier
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Another event that’s so glitchy and inconsistent but I think it happens to everyone and it’s kinda fun so I guess it’s alright

stoic canopy
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Okay, real talk;

Why are 343 and HCS sooooo set on this 8-Player FFA?

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Like...there is a reason why it was 6 Players before

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You keep it to 6 players so that you can actually win a gunfight and not immediately get third party'd, so that every fight isn't a hail of grenades from multiple angles and so that you don't constantly have people spawning up your butthole.

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Like I used to love FFA in older Halos but it's so annoying that even if you Perfect someone it's almost certain you're immediately going to die because you won't get your shields back before someone else is on top of you.

grim citrus
stoic canopy
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But not two extra people larger

stoic canopy
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Like they're actually about right for 6 people too

grim citrus
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Can you imagine a 6 FFA match with sprint and advanced movement options?

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On a map like sanctuary

livid fable
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.......

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sometimes this game runs great

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sometimes this game lets an enemy melee after a clash before i can melee

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sometimes i can't melee lunge with a sword at someone who's 2 feet from me and someone who's 10 feet away supermans over and kills me

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the difference appears to be about 30 ping according to the in-game ping counter

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60 ms, you're screwed. 30 ms, it works as designed.

knotty ermine
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not gonna lie.. glass in forge is great.. but I can't see the glass when im trying to move it...

arctic schooner
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Now that Mintblitz mentioned it, cuz I never noticed before, one day I would love to not have to deal with the weird asf Skill based matchmaking they implemented.

Also Glass is good to drink dontcha know

livid fable
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I can't

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i can't get a single melee lunge

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i have 30 ping

stoic canopy
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Or having someone spawn in my butt immediately after fight and thus I have no chance of winning

livid fable
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literally unplayable right now.

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going to try and look at connection. i have no idea what's making such a difference.

grim citrus
magic night
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That's also how it was in Infinite for probably less than a week before the community complained for some reason that it wasn't 8 players.

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I'm with Paragon on this. 8 player Ranked FFA has problems that could probably be solved by reducing the player count back to 6 players.

knotty ermine
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Why is forge online only! Such an asinine design choice. second time I got kicked while working on my map this week

coarse dagger
knotty ermine
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That is such a cheap way to defend themselves. there are multiple games out there that have people make maps for a game like Call of duty and source games. Pathetic

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if they believe in the security of users. then I'm surprised that isn't implemented in MCC which shows how they really just use it as an excuse

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and not only that but making modded maps didn't stop people since way back in the old reach days when people made modded maps

red spindle
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idk seems reasonable to me

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theres a lot of security issues nowadays tbh

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id rather not get viruses from playing custom games

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which, just as an example, you can get from CSGO custom servers

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which is one of the reasons custom csgo lobbies basically all but died off a few years ago. a round of keyloggers went around and started stealing ppl's accounts and also entire servers

knotty ermine
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that was an exploit that was fixed by valve later on. It's the failure of the company if someone finds an exploit in their code

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and that was the case with tf2 as well but it was also affecting matchmaking. literally just their excuse to not make sure their code isn't as secure

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and now making it our problem

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Also idk what you mean by custom lobbies died. they never died in the first place

magic night
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Security was only one of the reasons they gave

misty vale
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No such thing as true security. This avoids the whole issue.

knotty ermine
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The whole rendering and baking using server Power still sounds like an excuse to me. It's still a major sacrifice that can affect people that want to build a map while offline or straight up kicking people out of their own maps unsaved Because Internet gave out or their very own servers give out.

misty vale
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Better than keyloggers spreading around imo

magic night
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If the servers gave out, you'd encounter similar problems if it did let you run Forge offline, since your maps wouldn't save. You'd end up running into an error whenever you'd try to upload.

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You'd end up baking and processing, possibly for a while depending on how complex the map is, only to encounter a connection error.

red spindle
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the obvious unofficial answer is they dont want NSFW stuff appearing from offline creation into online servers. dealing with that is a whole other job requirement - much like how nintendo just decided to end mii content altogether

red spindle
stoic canopy
knotty ermine
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Don't you think it's because people moved on to other games? The custom lobbies never changed. They've been the same for ages

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1v1, surfs, zombies and some trade servers

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TF2 had a rise in custom lobbies recently because of some major changes allowed for more players and other mide like Saxton hale

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And mcc doesn't have this issue as well

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Cod black ops 3 zombies also have modded maps and custom lobbies too.

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This is a first that I've had a conversation about malware in custom lobbies or user made maps

young glen
signal ivy
grim fossil
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hey

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Iv been gone for a week

onyx latch
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No you haven't

keen compass
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it'd be funny if infinite got the same lunge as Halo 2

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for the energy sword

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flying at your enemies at mach 10

karmic oriole
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Is there any notification or anything verifying your entry into Seattle championship after playing 10 games in the ranked ffa? Or do you just need to keep track of 10 games?

slow walrus
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the SBMM is so bad right now the only playlist that has an estimated wait time of less than a minute is Infection

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every single other playlist is literally unplayable postums

red spindle
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oh btw i retract what i said days ago: SBMM is still in full swing on infection and other social playlists. sad. it said 1:30 and i literally waited 15min for it to tell me it couldnt find me a match. meanwhile my friend played one full game and joined another (without me sigh 😔)

celest heron
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most playlists are between 30-50 seconds for me. Edit: 4 out of 17 is more than that.

oak relic
oak relic
clear cedar
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I feel like grenades just hate me in Halo

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not just in Infinite, Halo 3 as well

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whenever I throw a nade, its like a firecracker while the enemy nades are mini nukes

ruby knoll
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gonna be honest all the hemming and hawing over the sbmm with people exponentially contorting themselves around bizarre delusions and widespread misinterpretations is hilarious

smoky wave
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It's that the mintz video right

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I love Mintz, is my favorite youtuber, he gives me opinions that I can't form so I can just spread it around it

coarse dagger
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I want to go back and read the Optimatch forums on Bungie.net arounf 2008/09 and see if people were complaining about the same thing, but I also really don't want to do that

tepid latch
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i feel like the SBMM system has been explained to death, but because of the whole 50% win rate thing people think its a trick to keep players playing(?)

coarse dagger
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What's happening in the background, are the 2 systems (SBMM and Team Balancing) coming together to build teams and give each side as close to a 50% chance of winning as it can.

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What people see: "50%" and have just run with it being a forced win rate

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When that's not the case

tepid latch
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Yeah i didn't realise it was so hard to understand for some people...

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seen so many people asking to not be paired with lower skilled players they have to carry, but at the same time want to get rid of/tone down SBMM and its like ...r u kidding...

coarse dagger
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I usually have a good Josh Menke tweet for stuff like this, but I can't find one right now.
Doing a search on Twitter for from:joshua_menke and then adding something like sbmm, 50%, skill will get you some good info

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For anyone reading that is unaware, Josh is a developer that used to work at Bungie, 343 and LOL and designed matchmaking systems. Work on Halo 3 and 5 (which both used the same underlying code and systems)

tepid latch
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just doing a small search on twt and there's already a ton of good reads here lol. Josh Menke seems to be given so much flack for just doing their job

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and then people not understanding that there are so many other factors that play into who gets paired with who with playlist populations and the likes

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poor guy, but great work

open umbra
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The loading time for the UI seems to take pretty long recently.

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The region you live in, the peak time to the majority of the playerbase may also contribute to the estimated wait time. (same with the ping issue)

lilac echo
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any halo5ers?

open umbra
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What I think about the searching process (just my unprofessional conspiracy theory) is that when you click start matchmaking, it'll broadcast your request (maybe with your region and MMR) to each destination servers.
When the server recieves the packet you sent, it'll then compare your MMR to other requests it recieved. (It may vary due to some players get a match from other servers, and those players need to send a notification to this server for it to cancel).
If the requests are enough for the server to start a match, it'll still wait for some time to check if the contenders already get in a match or players whose MMR is closer to the current average MMR, after that, the server will send back a confirmation to the players get in the match in order to broadcast to other servers.
Otherwise, the server will continue to wait for other requests until either your connection to the destinated server or the process of the server get timed out.
Since the transmission time (aka latency or ping) for your packet is heavily depend on the distance between your region and the target server, if you're in a region with lower playerbase, you gonna need more time to get in a match, yet most of the time when your request get to the server, the latter may have just already made a match based on the request from those players live in the region closer than you do. (Also it'll prioritise lower ping so... yeah)

glacial tartan
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If you look more into the concept of a matchmaking ticket you’ll see your explanation comes pretty close.

open umbra
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Glad my knowledge on request/respond system doesn't get wasted.

limpid lance
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Wild ODST released 14 years ago today!

tribal jasper
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What exactly did Voldemort Lady do to me in Halo 4?
Only gave me the immunity to this cyborg blast thing, or there is more to it?

onyx latch
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Not Halo's best plot point tbh.

tribal jasper
onyx latch
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Nope.

tribal jasper
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0/10

onyx latch
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Eh. Being immune to composition isn't a bad deal though.

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Like, I'd rather have that immunity and not need it than need it and not have it.

tribal jasper
onyx latch
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Yep.

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I'm really not a fan of that arc tbh.

tribal jasper
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Also, if 343 dont add mantis to infinite I will consider this as a crime

tribal jasper
tribal jasper
onyx latch
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I miss my mecha

heady flax
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What kind of prowler did you make? Sorry for the random ping but I been interested in trying to make one also. A mod here said he’d work on one also just wondering

tribal jasper
# onyx latch Based tbh

they can base the whole event around this where they add a new playlist called mantisfall or smth, and it is just slayer/king of the hill/control points with 16/24 mechs on btb maps

grim citrus
lilac echo
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@grim citrus u still play?

grim citrus
limpid pollen
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wonder if 343 will ever do more events for the other cores, like eaglestrike and chimera 🧐

lilac echo
quaint coyote
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We need SMGs and Forklifts in infinite

open umbra
grim citrus
limpid pollen
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id love to see a rakshasa re-vent, give people who missed stuff the first time around a chance to get stuff

open umbra
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Rakshasa is the main armour core, I don't think it will have a event, its armour pieces are mostly in the BP or ultimate challenges.
I still think those missed items should be earned through ultimate challenges though.
#1075147354610618438 message

devout kite
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343 should know that team snipers suck on the btb maps

lilac echo
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@grim citrus I don't think I have matched you yet, I mainly play wz tho

grim citrus
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I’ll play warzone here and there

lilac echo
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I don't play qp

grim citrus
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What’s your csr @lilac echo

scarlet shuttle
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Wtf is going on sometimes with the game. The guy was down a level, shield off. I look at him from above and start spraying him with my AR, he didn’t f****** die and managed to turn around look up and kill me with AR. If this isn’t cheating, the server are way off.

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I’m watching the replay of the game and that guy is doing no scope from across the map

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I arrived at the part where he didn’t die. I don’t know how, his whole shield and life point are completely empty and he is still alive while I shoot at him. This deserve a report. I clipped that.

grim citrus
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Which halo is the most competitive halo and why?

tribal jasper
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Just one question, I thought ark was destroyed during Halo 3 events, it was the whole reason why that nerd Wheatly f***cking killed Sergeant Johnson, how ark could have created a new halo for the Infinte's campaign, if it is gone, are there more arks?

slim flint
quiet yacht
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there was 2 arks anyway

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idk if the other one could make rings tho

tribal jasper
crystal iron
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is anybody else not able to access Competitive/Ranked playlists?

slim flint
quiet yacht
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zeta halo is apparently the only ring that survived of the original 12

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but took heavy damage which is why its smaller than the others

tribal jasper
quiet yacht
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i assume it means it was damaged and then when rebuilding there was only enough resources to rebuild it at a smaller scale

wide trout
quiet yacht
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either way this information is freely on the internet to be picked through

misty vale
grim citrus
misty vale
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Answer: Halo PC 2003 because it has the least amount of the insane aim assist in the series and the lowest TTK; which makes proper play the most important thing.

tribal jasper
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dear god Halo has so many mech designs
and I like them

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oh man....

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I wish we had some of them in Infinite

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and there is even a wave of hype for mechs now, sort of

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the armored core popularised the concept even more

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thins keep happening to titanfall

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I got a mech tabletop games recommendations out of nowhere

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etc

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Damn, I am about to start a mech uprising conspiracy theory

civic sundial
grim citrus
misty vale
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It's more precise, not 'better'. Controller folks should not enjoy aimhack simply because they're using an inferior input. This is reason #1 halo is not a competitive game

ancient sun
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@pine lava if you have more questions about how to play Infinite, come chat here

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@pine lava which country do you live in?

pine lava
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Ontario NorthBay

ancient sun
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The game was not $100 - it would have been $80 (plus tax)

image.png
pine lava
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No i actually bought for 100 dollars i have the thing for it somewhere

ancient sun
pine lava
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ill go return it then, which the store is luckily only 30 minutes away of a walk, and i suppose i can take the one from my cousin since he doesnt play halo anymore and yes he bought that game because i wanted it play with it with him, and we played it on his Xbox one

ancient sun
onyx latch
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And on Amazon

ancient sun
onyx latch
ancient sun
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ah

pine lava
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ill be right back after a few hours

ancient sun
onyx latch
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Wrong person to ask.

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I have no clue.

sullen anvil
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happy anniversary H3:ODST!

glacial tartan
ancient sun
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I don't mean this exact item for sale, but for the Collector's Edition in general.

magic night
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I think so, from what i remember. It was just a seemingly random assortment of merch

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All for retailers. You couldn't but that from Xbox directly.

white birch
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I want it

pine lava
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i finally got infinite to work now, after having to find and changing hard drives and fixing it

vivid viper
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Is mcc down yall

pine lava
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and finding that the xbox has a massive virus on it-

crystal iron
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What?

pine lava
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i finally got halo infinite to work-

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must i explain the full story now?

lime robin
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No

white birch
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We probably know it more than you do just from osmosis

pine lava
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of the game? or the hard drive?

white birch
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The game. Hard drive just sounds like a used game console issue

pine lava
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i know bit and pieces of the game here and there but i mostly play it for fun and it pretty much inspires me to make a fan-made game for it

spark stone
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is anyone here that can help me?

crystal iron
spark stone
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having a problem downloading a mod from the steam workshop and getting to play it

crystal iron
spark stone
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ah thanks! i'll go ask there

molten gate
#

is there a Halo Infinite LATAM playdate going on now? I see it on haloinfinitenews.com, but can’t find any info on where it is or if it’s still happening

white birch
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I think Assasinator Entertainment had a video on it with a like

analog salmon
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I hate warlock so much

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I think it’s possible the worst map to get remade not once but twice

scarlet shuttle
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Cause you know… number 7 was a huge deal for Bungie

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7 being the number of Luck. Luck being what Xbox needed not to sink in the beginning. Cortana chosing John because the only thing he had that other lacked compared to him was Luck. The 7 branch in one of the Bungie’s Logo. Etc.

fathom ginkgo
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hey guys can I still play mcc if i buy the games individually instead of buying the entire bundle?

analog salmon
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yah on pc

slim flint
open umbra
frosty condor
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There were originally 12 rings

uneven bison
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Mendicant did an oopsie and got most of the original array destroyed

frosty condor
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I'll post the YT link that does a great explanation of the beginning of the Halo lore in #lore-and-universe

lusty wraith
pseudo storm
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Why is there no cross platform for the campaigns?

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seems like it would be easy and would be convenient

slow walrus
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I've been queuing for playlists this last hour trying to find a match, but it's been timing out every time

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I'm never going to complete the event am I 😔

frosty condor
#

Gotta try playing when it’s peak hours for NA

slow walrus
#

the game doesn't matchmake across regions like that anyway so it wouldn't make a difference

neon vapor
pseudo storm
neon vapor
#

They're still working on it as far as I know but yeah.

coarse dagger
wise lichen
celest heron
analog salmon
gray herald
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Man the matchmaker is so messed up

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The "balanced team" was me and some one else who scored 68 out of the 100 kills in slayer everyone else was goosing

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343 needs to fix this no wonder casual players don't play this game

magic night
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If you're playing BTB, that's always had minimal team balancing

white birch
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Theres always that one dude who just spends the whole game killing people.

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Especially if its objective I notice

analog salmon
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I just spend the whole match tryna ruin that guys sprees

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And bagging em

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Respectfully

tulip tusk
pine lava
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i have a question for the halo world championship

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im just a little confused because i see the gamemode to win a trip to WA but do you have to still buy a ticket??

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im just super confused this might be the first time i actually maybe possible to go one

pine lava
#

actually scratch by answering my question, i just read that its only happening in America, and i cant get a passport bc the government screwed it all up, but why does everything exciting has to be in America, like Disneyland for example its always America this America that

coarse dagger
#

There's a Disneyland in Paris

#

But to answer your question, company HQ is in America so it makes sense that most of the big things they do are there

ruby knoll
smoky wave
#

And Hong Kong

#

And Shanghai too

proud cliff
#

Disneyland sucks anyway, tiny, Disney World is where it’s at, right here in Orlando Florida

#

Though Disney world too is lame compared to Universal Studios

#

Disney is full of nothing but middle aged soccer moms who solely talk about their brat children, universal has a cool nightlife scene via City Walk

#

Clubs and bars galore, plus Halloween horror nights

#

Come autumn

low musk
#

I forget, are we having an HCS event this upcoming weekend? I think I remember them doing those on the last weekend of the month

odd fable
#

Haven’t played infinite since it first came out, any modes in multiplayer with ai in it? Like how halo 5’s warzone had the ai to fight too?

tulip tusk
celest heron
#

matched some old haters I guess in btb. Thought it was funny that I'm still living rent free in their heads even when I haven't played against them for a long time.

frosty condor
#

LP is an online bully, confirmed

turbid trout
#

Ok, so i need someones help here. I am looking for a specific song in the soundtrack of all the halo games. But the only part i remember: Something like a female choir singing the main theme, but only that really high portion in the beginning. I think the specific part im looking forward too was towards the end of a cutscene in halo 2, but i dont recall. It was either halo 2 or 3. Can anyone help em find this song?

surreal quiver
#

ive been replaying halo recently and ive got to halo 5 and im sobbing at the fact theres practically no basic options, i cant even change my fov and its so zoomed in
oh and i cant even press to aim, gotta hold it

onyx latch
surreal quiver
#

true, cant even customize controls
what were they thinking

#

just picked up an energy sword and for some reason, it makes a different sound if you hit the melee button instead of the fire button

wanton root
civic sundial
wraith willow
#

infinite loves putting me on dredge

analog salmon
#

i would love dredge in ranked ngl

#

i really hope ranked gets a couple maps S5 cause 1 new map doesn't really keep it interesting for me

crystal iron
#

I would love Infinite if I could access the Ranked playlist.

dusk whale
wraith willow
#

definitely

woeful wigeon
# gray herald Man the matchmaker is so messed up

Since Halo 5, this complaint has always fallen on deaf ears at 343. Some ignorant exec at Microsoft pushed prioritizing faster search times at the cost of match balance quality and no one dared challenge that idea. They could've made traditional matchmaking faster or improved upon the model limitations in TS2/TM but that would probably be seen as challenging established "smart thought leaders" at Microsoft so it never happened. These people were regarded as legends when in reality it would probably be more fitting for them to be shamed as being largely responsible for killing/limiting the popularity of team based competitive arena games.

coarse dagger
#

I can't count the number of people who have said they would take faster matchmaking times over anything else - they just want to game and don't care who it's with.
So it's not some ignorant exec, it's based of actual feedback from the community

smoky wave
woeful wigeon
# coarse dagger I can't count the number of people who have said they would take faster matchmak...

Can't count the number of players in ranked or not ranked? Has there been a sound study around this? And maybe the OP wasn't, but I'm talking more about competitive, what Halo is at its core. I'm also saying it doesn't need to be nearly as much of a tradeoff as the system currently requires. It has been thought of with a closed mind as these things needing to be mutually exclusive for the last 8 years why? Because it's a "hard" problem? Not acceptable. When we stop thinking "there must be a better way" and haven't come up with a solution in 8 years, we die.

woeful wigeon
analog salmon
#

it was actually good at launch

#

then the population decreased and they decided to allow high skill discrepancy matches

#

which then allows for low quality and imho worthless matches. especially for the most and least skilled players

#

the average player is probably not that badly affected because they arent bothered by high and low skill players that much

woeful wigeon
#

no, it wasn't good at launch. even in the massive populations it was terrible at balancing. they compensated for bad match quality by allowing people to level up when they lost, which is a terrible incentive for team based playlists.

analog salmon
#

whereas the lowest skill players are deincentivised by matches they cant get a single kill, and the highest skill players are deincentivised by getting 20+ kills and losing

analog salmon
#

that's where you completely lost me

#

imho stopping the highest and lowest skill players being in the same match would actually speed up matchmaking times in the long run

#

the game is just purging players at the top and bottom of the skill curve becuase of this

#

i dont know why they turned SBMM down so low when the population wasn't even that bad last year

#

i just cant enjoy this game outside of ranked anymore

#

and the amount of time it takes to find ranked games is barely worth it

#

i know for a fact low skill players dont enjoy it either because i see them quitting my matches constantly

#

i wouldnt be surprised if one of the biggest reasons people stop playing this game is the quality of matches with high skill discrepancies, And i dont know how 343 would even know that's the reason i stopped playing which is pretty sad.

woeful wigeon
# analog salmon right as far as leveling up i couldn't care less. the match quality is frankly a...

Although it results in more fair rank, it ends up making balance worse because you end up with players that only care about their stats, not winning the game. Winning the game should be the only thing that increases your rank. That's what traditional ranked matchmaking got right - it only considered everyone's rank that only went up when they won and only went down when they lost. There is no better system than that for determining a player's team skill.
The ironic part about it is that when you try to make the TS2/TM system give more "fair" matches, it ends up taking longer to match than traditional matchmaking would and still produces a less fair result. This is why TS2/TM has been the doom of competitive arena matchmaking.

analog salmon
#

we're talking about different things here

#

ranked is a whole different can of worms

woeful wigeon
#

Sorry, I thought I was pretty clear about that I'm speaking about competitive. Imbalanced matches are less of a concern to me in social because I don't play it much, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't improve it too.

#

I.e. SBMM is fine so long as they are accurately measuring skill and matching relatively fairly using it. If the range of skill is higher to achieve faster match there it's ok, because all for fun.

analog salmon
#

my hot take would be most arena playlists should have ranks and the SBMM is just much tighter in competitive-focused modes

celest heron
analog salmon
#

you basically have to play ranked arena if you want consistently decent quality matches, even if ranked arena is flawed in many ways

woeful wigeon
# celest heron I'm laughing at the thought of an MS exec caring about match times.

It's in the paper as an incentive and people like Menke, others in talks have mentioned it as a driving priority for why TS2/TM system was invented. The funny part is that even though TS2 takes faster on average across all matchmaking, it takes longer to find a match that's always going to be less fair on average than traditional ranked matchmaking.

zenith latch
#

What's yalls opinion on the chimera armor?

civic sundial
#

It's my second favourite of the fracture armour cores behind the Yoroi armour

woeful wigeon
#

343 should implement traditional matchmaking for ranked and still use TS2/TM for everything else, approximating an MMR derived from ranked rank if necessary to serve the non ranked searches. They probably just don't want to use 2 separate matchmaking systems, which is not a good excuse assuming they have people competent enough to implement it, given the benefit would far outweigh the cost IMO.

zenith latch
#

Me personally I like the rakasha and mark V ones

grim citrus
#

MMR is such an inaccurate measurement of skill

woeful wigeon
# grim citrus MMR is such an inaccurate measurement of skill

It can be thought of as the fewest amount of data points considered to achieve the least amount of computation to result in the fastest possible model training and fitting processes. And they just hope that it will somehow correlate with actual skill.

grim citrus
#

It incentive’s individual skill opposed to team based skill, which are two completely different metrics

coarse dagger
grim citrus
#

They should match you up with people that understand what it takes to win

civic sundial
#

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the guy behind the systems in Halo 5 for matchmaking was the same guy who worked on it for Halo 3, right?

woeful wigeon
grim citrus
#

Truskill 1

#

H5 used truskill 2

woeful wigeon
#

No, it didn't. TrueMatch is the matchmaking system that is tightly coupled with TrueSkill 2. Halo 3 used traditional matchmaking with TrueSkill 1.

coarse dagger
grim citrus
#

You can look it up

civic sundial
grim citrus
coarse dagger
#

decisive is correct about True Match, which is different from TrueSkill. True Match only came about in around 2017. Was used in Gears 4 and then Halo 5

grim citrus
coarse dagger
#

Looking at Josh's tweets about True Match, they were making very good progress with it. He did a GDC talk which I haven't seen yet. These are definitely worth a read through

#

from:joshua_menke truematch

ruby osprey
#

I want to play mcc with console commands but it's not loading any help? Tried google but it didn't help a lot

#

It's halo reach I want to do it to or can I not do it on reach

woeful wigeon
#

TrueMatch/TS2 is fine to use, just not in ranked. They can improve it but it will always be inferior to W/L even if they consider every trackable data point and have no model computation limitations.

coarse dagger
#

Running solely on win/loss is how boosting runs rampant, it's what ruined Halo 3 with selling accounts. That's why the current model is in play, as it was found to be more efficient and accurate

ruby lake
#

10/10 limited time event

#

would rage again

serene furnace
#

If every events comes with maps from now on I'm all in for it

#

Although at least 3 of the ones here were remakes of existing maps, I noticed

woeful wigeon
smoky wave
woeful wigeon
#

Booster or deranking accounts can be flagged intelligently to make that less of an issue. A boosting detector is the only potential use for MMR in ranked, but that doesn't mean it needs to be used to match or balance teams.
It was just made extra easy in Halo 3 because people could just make new accounts and search at high rank immediately while the system thought they were less skilled. You can't do that in Infinite because you need to play at least X ranked games before you're allowed to search with someone else at high rank. Even without MMR if someone were to intentionally play poorly the system could accommodate by very quickly bringing up to the rank where they belong if it detects it when they search with others and win games.
All that said, even with boosting as rampant as it was in Halo 3 the experience was much better than it has been with TS2/TM because it was a best effort fair system.

analog salmon
#

Two days in a row now I get on ranked, team has mics, my mic ain’t setup right

#

Next games I don’t get anyone with mice

#

My luck honestly

obtuse umbra
#

Bruh

#

Halo infinite runs so vad

serene furnace
#

Let me guess, an old PC?

analog salmon
#

Render scale 55% sharpening 100% 😄

smoky wave
#

Get better PC

#

Or just Xbox series X too idk

serene furnace
#

I used to play it on the Xbox One
But found out it runs even better on the cloud

analog salmon
#

The game is pretty modest in terms of cpu usage

#

It’s no counter strike but it ain’t bad

smoky wave
#

''I can't play this game, how could they didn't worked for this!!!'' uses the most oldest PC known to man

analog salmon
#

It does munch GPU but honestly I’m using 55% of 1440p resolution and it’s playable with 150+fps

#

The upscaler is decent

serene furnace
#

Just saying, a Series X wouldn't give you performance excuses...

smoky wave
obtuse umbra
#

Its not a bad pc

#

I got 16 gigs of ram

smoky wave
#

What about the rest

serene furnace
#

Same as the Series X, and I bet it was at a higher price

obtuse umbra
#

I'll check that

#

Uh how bad is a Ryxen 3 3100 4 core processor?

analog salmon
#

4 core ain’t really enough

#

Xbox one had 8 cores for some context

smoky wave
#

Yup

obtuse umbra
#

Bruh

smoky wave
#

What about the graphics card

obtuse umbra
#

Where do i find that

analog salmon
#

A modern 6 core is good though

#

I just got Ryzen 5 7600 and if I uncap it will hit 200+ fps

serene furnace
#

If you lower down the graphics to potato PS1 mode, maybe it'll run better

karmic oriole
#

I need some of yall to hop on the halowv ffa qualifier Been waiting 10 minutes to get into a match

serene furnace
#

Or if you have a controller just play it through the cloud idk, that's what I do

analog salmon
#

There isn’t really a potato mode lol

#

I’m on low and it looks better then most esports games still

obtuse umbra
#

Hmm

#

How much did ur pc cost you?

serene furnace
#

Not even the world's strongest PC will run Jedi Survivor properly

obtuse umbra
#

Cuz mine cost 1k, and idk if that's a bad deal for my specs

analog salmon
#

£200 Rx6600
£200 Ryzen 7600
£130 Motherboard
£60 16GB DDR5 6000Mhz
£100 2TB Evo 970 M.2
+case and PSU

obtuse umbra
#

So prolly around mine

analog salmon
#

You spent 1K when? Because if you got a quad core for that price you got ripped off

#

I’m guessing you mean years ago

obtuse umbra
#

For the whole pc

analog salmon
#

When?

obtuse umbra
#

Qround a year or two

smoky wave
#

Just around the whole chip storage and all prices went super expensive

obtuse umbra
#

Fml

analog salmon
#

What’s the GPU

obtuse umbra
#

Where do i find that

#

For my processorbit eayd 3.59 GHz

#

Its using all my gpu kekw

#

My dedicated gpu is 4 gigs

#

Shared is 8

lime robin
#

You can find it at the Video tab in dxdiag

grim citrus
slim flint
bitter belfry
#

For a game that supposedly uses skill and a foolproof algorithm, I be getting some pretty lopsided matches lately

red spindle
#

halo infinite is horribly optimized on pc

coarse dagger
#

I don't think it was ever claimed to be foolproof

red spindle
#

what you want to do is check some yt vids on what settings to disable basically

coarse dagger
#

TS2 is more accurate with its predictions than TS1 though

red spindle
#

there are a number of graphics settings which absolutely must be adjusted even on highest end pcs for optimal fps

#

and some of the adjustments make no intuitive sense so i highly recommend going step by step thru each and every one

#

also altho its common knowledge you should have Simulation set to max or Ultimate bc otherwise your hit reg will be off. literally.

#

one of the culprits is Flock or w.e the bird setting is - this eats fps for no good reason. and another big one iirc is the cloud quality

#

it is genuinely so counterintuitive that i have a screenshot saved of my settings so that i dont have to remember how i got to where i am now, bc it took ages to get the game running perfect 60 fps. oh and one of the biggest problems is the fps min max itself. iirc u need to set it so upper bound is fixed and lower bound varies depending on what your setup is.

crystal iron
#

Come play Halo 2 BR STARTS CTF ALL MAPS ON CGB MCC

sullen kilnBOT
# crystal iron Come play Halo 2 BR STARTS CTF ALL MAPS ON CGB MCC

If you're looking for other Spartans to join you in battle, check out our LFGs:

#lfg-competitive – For ranked/competitive matchmaking
#lfg-social – For social/casual matchmaking
#lfg-campaign - For campaign co-op
#lfg-forge - For map/mode building and testing
#lfg-customs - For custom games
#lfg-other – For firefight, spartan ops, etc
#lfg-español – Para jugadores hispanohablantes en cualquier categoría de juego
#lfg-hcs-scrims-or-teams – To help you find a team or secure some scrims

Don't forget to check out #lfg-and-voice-chat to learn about the !lfg bot, how to use it, and how to create your own voice channels.

red spindle
smoky wave
obtuse umbra
#

Sus

#

You cant just tell people to "get better pc" if they have a problem

#

Well you can, but its pointless

smoky wave
#

The grand majority of times, is your PC not the game

onyx latch
#

I wish the only thing people kept from childhood was wonder. This childlike expectation for everything to stay the same is irritating.

bitter belfry
#

Making this game free was a mistake lol

onyx latch
#

I cannot say what I want to say in response to that.

#

But it would've been funny.

bitter belfry
#

Sure you can

#

Any game that balances based on a 50% win rate is an awful game 😂

uneven bison
#

I like how this channel has dedicated people who just complain

tepid latch
signal ivy
analog salmon
#

you actually dont want to use min or max fps unless you are going for a crisper resolution at the expense of performance

#

for me high TAA and high animation quality just looks better

#

and sharpness set to 100% or 792p looks terrible

#

im getting solid 150+fps and i have a driver-level cap set at 155, 10 below my refresh rate since i use VRR

#

and with driver-level vsync on because VRR+Vsync with a cap avoids any tearing with mininmal latency

#

i could uncap but i just dont care about 5-10ms at the expense of running my GPU at 100%

#

but i mean this is very much a mid-to-low range modern gaming pc

#

so Infinite is not super demanding. and the low settings in this game are better then most game's medium settings

uneven bison
# signal ivy the whole server has that

Idk in general we have random people pop in occasionally and complain, but they usually leave quickly, whereas in this channel there’s a couple of accounts here to detail just how awful their experience is.

bitter belfry
tepid latch
#

It's making sure that each game you go into both teams have a decent chance of winning

bitter belfry
#

Riiiiiiiight

#

I’m sure that’s what 343 told you

tepid latch
#

Ohhhh

analog salmon
#

close games are the best games, aiming for 50% balance is a no brainer

ruby knoll
bitter belfry
#

I’m just clowning around lol game is a train wreck it’s fun to just bash on is all

ruby knoll
#

wow, you truly must be a sad facsimile of a person to find that fun

bitter belfry
#

More fun than playing halo infinite lol

ruby knoll
#

my point stands

coarse dagger
bitter belfry
#

I mean, it IS about halo

onyx latch
crystal iron
#

Lmao

coarse dagger
smoky wave
#

Or your favorite youtuber or twitter

bitter belfry
#

Thought bringing up the fact that matchmaking is as bad as ever was a constructive debate but I apologize

tepid latch
#

Swear we need a PSA on the 50% win rate and how SBMM works because so many popular yt vids are not doing that situation justice...

coarse dagger
#

We need Josh Menke 2.0

onyx latch
#

Most channels I can think of with an interest in covering it actually stand to have less impressive kill montages the stronger/more robust/more effective the matchmaking is.

#

Ergo, it is in those channels best interest to promote a lack of knowledge about why that's a system to be strove towards, not ran away from.

tepid latch
#

That makes sense, tho it sucks that people can be so malicious whether they're aware of it or not. It doesn't take much research to understand why it's a good thing

smoky wave
#

Easy viewers and clicks

slim flint
onyx latch
#

It doesn't matter that xXxGuacamolewarriorxXx is curbstomping 10 year olds with cataracts and no depth perception; it matters that they are doing so in a spectacular manner that highlights their prowess at setting up kills, irrespective of the skill of his or her opponents.

slim flint
tepid latch
onyx latch
#

The point is that it is a conflict of interest.

slim flint
#

or only ever win, for that matter

solar night
#

Post season 13 RvB isn’t very good I’m afraid 😔

tepid latch
#

Loved the hell outta that show tho!

solar night
#

I do like Joe Swanson in season 16 ep 2 tho

low musk
#

Does anybody else use the Microsoft Point system to get gift cards for the XBOX? It’s how it has kept me from having to buy the points for Halo. Granted, it takes awhile unless you get the smaller demonizations

red spindle
# analog salmon

your recommendation for min/max is incorrect. you have a bunch of settings on the wrong level. it's not as simple as you seem to think it is. yes this will get you high fps, but it isnt optimal and you're currently losing out on a number of tactical performance upgrades that sacrifice no fps. again, highly suggest you check a professional's review of each setting. you will find it v enlightening to say the least. i can tell you right now your geometry and depth of field settings are wrong.

#

@obtuse umbra also worth noting i forgot to mention, another big fps save if you have an older gfx card is to remove the HD Multiplayer Content pack, which is not in the graphics menu oddly, but instead in a side menu that is accessible from the main menu. you have to hit ESC, then click R for Manage Game, then deselect the option. and separately outside of the game, if you bought on steam or MStore, there is an option to disable HD textures. though in both these cases, i would recommend this as the final step to take, but for many this has a huge fps increase, probably due to faulty optimizations for certain gfx/cpu builds

empty rapids
#

are they ever going to change how fast console players can dump a mag from the sidekick compared to pc?

onyx latch
#

Controller issue

analog salmon
#

My monitor is 165hz

#

Im not a professional halo player

#

Locking to 155fps with VRR is about as smooth and responsive as I need it 😄

#

I don’t use minimum fps because I don’t want my resolution dynamically changing, a lot of this is personal preference

#

You could also just tell me why turning up geometry or depth of field is helpful

#

I have the overhead to turn it up

empty rapids
#

doesn't help that they also have less bloom

#

not screaming op or anything, but it has been annoying since launch to occasionally get deleted by the sidekick

onyx latch
empty rapids
#

all my console buddies say it 🤷

onyx latch
#

Trigger pull distance is a significant factor.

empty rapids
#

ok?

onyx latch
#

Console players generally fire semi autos slower because they don't click, they pull.

#

It's why the trigger stoppers on the elite controller are such a big deal.

empty rapids
#

it's something my buddies tell me and that i've heard since launch

onyx latch
#

Your buddies are wrong, then.

empty rapids
#

i don't own a console version of the game lol

#

was just asking because everywhere i look i see people crying about it

uneven bison
onyx latch
#

People are always crying about their skill issues.

empty rapids
magic night
analog salmon
#

I feel like it’s the opposite

#

Sidekick melts with mouse

#

So easy to spam

#

People have trigger stops on console but otherwise sidekick feels better with mouse for me

#

Controller*

#

I think if I gave up playing ranked I would switch to kbm cause sidekick just feels so much easier to use for me

#

Controller I feel like I’m sweating so hard to hit my sidekick shots lol

echo moon
#

Hey so uh
I got master chief collection on xbox recently
For some reason, I just can’t use voice chat
I set the voice chat settings to all
I turned off push to talk (why is that an option on the xbox version anyways? There’s no button mapped to it) but I still can’t talk
I can hear people though

left snow
left snow
analog salmon
#

I had like 5 terrible ranked games and then 4 really close good ones

#

Infinite man

left snow
# coarse dagger We need Josh Menke 2.0

Definitely. Or at least offline access to more information. If players could look up their own MMR vs CSR vs game mode it would go a long way to letting people understand how the system worked. The type of graphs that Menke used to post on Waypoint for H5. And KPM vs opponent rank.

sullen anvil
#

Okay so, attempting my first 5 ranked games in Infinite and I literally can’t tell the difference which experience is sweatier, searching for core or ranked modes

left snow
left snow
sullen anvil
#

Often times I really don’t but k

analog salmon
#

I find ranked takes more brain power but less frustration I guess

#

Like in social you mess up oh dang I’m not gonna carry to the win

#

In ranked u let ur team down

#

So ur racking ur brain like “dang don’t do that again”

#

But then any close game in ranked feels good

#

If you played well you don’t care about the L

#

You can still feel proud you played well and it was a close game

#

U just don’t get that in social

sullen anvil
#

I am more of a laid back kinda player

#

I can dial in when I want to but overall I’m just there to have a good time

#

and I was mainly playing ranked just to get achievements lol

#

because I never touched it since launch

#

and honestly I was pretty curious about my placement, so after 5 rocky games I got platinum 2 and I have no idea if that’s good or not

#

The last game felt way way more balanced because mmr was having a stroke trying to figure out where I belong

left snow
#

How much emotional energy you invest in a game largely depends on what you want.

In Ranked it's easy. You want the win. How you perform individually takes a bit of a back seat. And you tend to want tougher opponents as they are the best way to rank up - so you relish a contest.

Social is a bit different. What people want seems to vary a lot. It pivots around personal performance vs team performance. I think most people want to 'relax' - but some people struggle around the result.

I think the people who have the most fun in Social are the ones who can play in a consistent "tone" and spend the least amount of emotional energy on the result and/or what their team-mates did. A lot of people struggle with those last bits.

left snow
sullen anvil
#

I would say I perform better in slayer than obj games

#

but I mean it’s an interesting experience coming from someone that mainly just plays core and social playlists

#

but often times it felt like I was just playing core without radar

left snow
left snow
# sullen anvil but often times it felt like I was just playing core without radar

Slayer plays the most similarly between Ranked and Social. At least at the non-elite levels. The main difference I think in objective games is that your team gets punished a lot more for dying. You just can't give up the numbers to you opponents.

As you go up the ranks then team work becomes more important. Particularly communication in the absence of a radar.

hollow bobcat
#

I just replayed the Tenrai mode just to see if anyting improved. It still plays like butt.

#

King of the Hill + 10 sec timers = doodoo. 20% actual defense and gunfights, 80% sitting on an objective uncontested.

#

incoming "jUSt dON't dIE" comment

ivory glacier
#

It’s glitchy af but some matches are fun. Some are terrible

#

Just played a match and saw my teammate stick the enemy and there was two other teammates next to him so I thought he might get the cluster. Or at the very least the 1 kill and heavy damage to the teammates. But I watched the plasma that was stuck on this guy just disappear like it was never there. No damage to anyone

celest heron
#

A lot of people struggle with those last bits.
I've found the ones that do while playing are the most annoying cause they'll likely send messages in the chat venting their frustrations at you or the team.

celest heron
left snow
# celest heron have you watched Mint Blitz's recent vid about the skill matching and if you dec...

I don't tend to watch Minties vids on SBMM. Like all streamers he has a conflict of interest.

But 343 could fix a lot of the issues (whatever they happen to be for each player);

  1. Match Composer (helps the MM to funnel all the good players into the same lists).

  2. Add bots to games with new / low level players (so they aren't chewed up by the MM to balance high level players).

  3. Give players slider(s) to control skill vs connection vs time based MM.

celest heron
#

I like those except 3 might be harder to manage if there's not a big pool of players.

fallow crow
#

bandits ruin swat so much. terrible weapon.

left snow
# celest heron I like those except 3 might be harder to manage if there's not a big pool of pla...

The Match Composer would help a lot to maximise the available pool. It's not helpful that the good players are spreading themselves thin across one playlist a time.

And the sliders at least give players full control over their "preferred" play style. After a decent attempt to match the MM can give you a warning that it has to step outside these boundaries to find you a game.

At least players will know (and feel) that the system tried.

celest heron
#

I'd agree if you mean they're able to search multiple playlists at a time. unfortunately, there will always be playlists that might become even more unpopular from it, but the benefit would outweigh that.
Not sure what your preferred play style entails. Would a more relaxed style for example mean that it would put me in matches where I'd stomp other players or do you mean something else?

rocky summit
#

Halo should really do some spin off games in my opinion

#

It would be really fun to have a co-op open world halo ODST 2

#

Also I haven’t really played halo infinite since the winter update and I just want to know if it would be a good time to jump back in or just wait till season 5 comes out

hollow bobcat
#

Everyone says they want to relax. They never specify how. If you want to go in normal modes and not have to try as hard to do well, that requires your opposition to be weaker.

#

People will also constantly make up the theory that the matchmaking ruins connections. There has been no proof of that and anybody making the claim that actually does suffer connection issues are typically from countries outside of the US. In this specific instance, Australia (Mint Blitz).

#

The issue is that worldwide, the internet is not the best. I would love for people in Australia and other non-US countries to have the same ping as everybody else. However, even if that were a possibility, I don't see that happening for another decade or so. Maybe sooner, but that's being hopeful.

#

Just to repeat the earlier part, SBMM always prioritizes connections. Believing in the masses (AKA the smoke and fire argument) is not the way to go.

left snow
# celest heron I'd agree if you mean they're able to search multiple playlists at a time. unfor...

Sweating means different things for different people. People get upset about different aspects; the intensity of the game, the closeness of the scores, the skill gap between themselves and their team-mates.

I'm not sure there is an exact formula to keep everyone happy.

There are those, for example, who can only relax when stomping other players. I'm not sure any system can calm their farms.

I just think if people had some control over how long they waited to match on skill base and/or connection base - there would be a lot less angst towards the system.

#

Personally I play consistent social games. I don't change the way I approach each game based on the score or my team-mates. And I enjoy a close match - so I would be happy to wait a bit longer, and even cop a higher ping, to have a close game.

Other people want different things out of social playlists.

hollow bobcat
#

Connection-based is always part of the algorithm.

#

Having this idea of searching based on connection only is ridiculous since that's already being done.

tepid latch
#

Aussie here, but not particularly professional at the game, afaik Mints big issue comes down to there simply aren't enough Australians at his MMR to matchmake with him so he tries expanded mm but because he's on the other side of the world and mm prioritises connection there ain't no way he's getting a game, so he uses a VPN lol. His issue is not SBMM as much as he might think it is. There's a population issue in Australia and other non us countries and there's not much we can do abt that

#

Just wish YouTubers would stop pushing the 50% win rate misinfo

left snow
# hollow bobcat Having this idea of searching based on connection only is ridiculous since that'...

Not ridiculous for everyone. As an stuck Aussie waiting interminably for an appropriately matched game - there may be seven other (little?) Australians stuck in a similar queue - and we could all bail and play each other locally despite the horrible skill based matching.

But yes, you're right - for most people the best connection is built in for the most part. You would be trading off the skill based component for a relatively small (if any) gain in connection. Most of the gain would be in less time queued.

hollow bobcat
#

In this case, it's the geographical location and the low population of the game that hampers the search times.

#

If the game had maybe almost 100k players, there was obviously be some improvements. However, infinite still has roughly less than 10K players which is not going to be enough if you're searching for players in a non-US country.

#

I also mentioned that if the world internet itself improved to the point where people from Australia can connect to USA servers with less than 30 ping for everybody, then that would make things more efficient.

#

But despite this information, people are still going to try to trample SBMM. Even when it doesn't cause issues with connection, that's the only argument people have against it. It's that and wanting to have a casual experience, which is basically saying they want noobs to destroy.

tepid latch
#

the casual experience complaint always bugged me, it's very much up to the player if you wanna take it seriously or not... SBMM being super lax in social modes is as casual as it gets

hollow bobcat
#

People just want to win and perform the best. Anybody that impedes on that is ruining their casual gameplay.

civic sundial
tepid latch
civic sundial
#

Indeed

#

Which is why I dip in and out of Infinite whenever events are happening once I finish the season pass

#

The game definitely feels like it respects your time with how much easier it is to complete challenges than other games

tepid latch
#

I treat it exactly the same way! Im more than happy to jump on for an event week and get my halo fill before going off to do other things. tho I have my gripes here and there abt the current challenge system now

#

well... since they basically took away daily challenges

left snow
hollow bobcat
#

Exactly. You ever wonder why people constantly try to reverse boost and even justify their actions? If not that, then it's the VPNs.

hollow bobcat
#

No vehicles? Then everybody's going to just camp a lot more and you're going to have to walk 2 miles before you engage another person.

tepid latch
#

isnt the whole point of BtB to be able to drive vehicles in mp lol

#

not dissing the idea tho, I think it could be fun. We had Last Man Standing on BtB maps and it was pretty enjoyable so im sure BTB no vehicles could probs work just fine

left snow
#

BTB = Warthog or death. Or invariably both...

tepid latch
left snow
#

When my mates and I played the other week we had a mini-competition to see who could fire the most chain gun shots. The week before the most splatters.

That's how you chill in Social...

tepid latch
#

Frrr that sounds like a hell of a fun time :D

hollow bobcat
#

Speaking of vehicles, if only they can bring back rocket race again. For those who don't know, it's basically Mongoose vehicles only and two people; the driver and the rocket guy. You can't be knocked off your vehicle nor can it be destroyed, but you can definitely catapult them with rocket launchers.

The goal of the game is to simply drive through small hills that spawn throughout the big map. Doing that will get you a point.

#

To prevent people from running around without a mongoose, it will be as if you are out of bounds and the timer will count down before you die unless you jump back in the Mongoose.

#

I had some good moments with that mode in Halo 3.

upper walrus
#

Any reason doom eternal is showing up as a download in mcc in the Microsoft store?

crystal iron
#

What?

upper walrus
#

Doom eternal shows up as dlc download next to reach and odst in the store, has sense yesterday

#

Eternal campaign

crystal iron
upper walrus
#

Those have been out to purchase for years, they weren’t with original mcc, im confused why doom is showing up with them

crystal iron
#

It's probably a search error?

#

or something else related about doom?

upper walrus
#

I guess, shows up like that in gamepass and on store, just shows in dlc section that eternal is included

coarse dagger
#

It's a error on the storefront side, you can probably report it via the store page or via the feedback hub

hollow bobcat
#

But imagine a Doom and Halo event for Halloween.... HypeChief

left snow
# tepid latch Frrr that sounds like a hell of a fun time :D

I've always thought the key to Social games was to make your own fun. Particularly if your team has the advantage in skill and/or numbers.

We've played matches where we ran around trying to get the most assists.

One match a few weeks ago was vs Mint Blitz. My son and I purely targeted him - nobody else. Literally running past opponents with popped shields to get at him. I didn't do so well - but my son (a better player) got him a few times. Including the winning kill 50-49!

Once we were getting thrashed by a four squad - so we picked one of them at random and just went for them. All four of us. Including T-bagging him while his team-mates got a few easy kills.

We've played games where you can only go for melees. Or can only use one of the weapons. Or you can't jump or slide. Oddball games where only one of us can hold the ball.

There is so much inside the sandbox to amuse yourselves.

Always appreciating that the other players in match deserve a chance to win - so if the game is closely matched it's game on. But I've always believed that it's up to yourself to make the game chill.

hollow bobcat
#

When I play, I don't give any chances to win.

left snow
hollow bobcat
#

Maybe, but I'll probably be playing the Halloween event for Call of Duty anyway.

crystal iron
hollow bobcat
#

Scary infected maps should be brought into the event, along with variations of infected. For example, the one I mentioned a while ago with one or two infected players that cannot die and you have to just run away and hide as long as you can.

tepid latch
#

Damn, that Mint video on Halo 5 PC tho got me kinda hyped, I really wish I just had Mouse and Keyboard Controls even just for the Xbox version bruh.
just toyed around a little on the Forge Client on PC and im kinda hoping that if 343 doesn't want to bring campaign to PC that maybe some modders can somehow do it instead, it feels so nice with Keyboard and mouse its such a shame we cant use them for campaign and matchmaking

native tinsel
#

Cant wait for season 5 though

#

If there IS a battle Royal that’ll be super fun

hollow bobcat
#

There already technically was. It was called last Spartan standing. It wasn't popular enough because the population couldn't support it.

karmic oriole
#

Happy birthday halo 3 salute

limpid pollen
#

but halo infinite ruins it, ranked does not work

#

all i can do is sweat in casual modes

analog salmon
#

its not the first time a content creator has got a bunch of people on

livid fable
civic sundial
#

I wouldn't exactly say Infection was really a "horror" mode to begin with

rugged quartz
#

Being chased by zombies when you're trying to survive and making you scream is a bit horror like though

shadow oyster
#

hello

teal temple
#

I just got the IWHBYD SKULL in Halo 2… FINALLY

#

I can finally somewhat rest

frosty condor
#

that's a tough one

livid fable
rugged quartz
#

Screaming out of frustration?

#

that's not it at all

#

When you scream when something is chasing you and you feel the thrill, the fear

#

that's fun

lusty scaffold
#

Think I'm done with Infinite. Just got a friend to play anew and the SBMM was so bad we lost 4/5 matches, even in gamemodes like squad battle where there's 16 players, the game wants to demoralise you

#

How are you going to grow your playerbase when their experience of playing with friends is getting absolutely whooped before you can even learn to play

#

Coming from playing a bunch of Titanfall 2 it's just painful

#

I don't even understand how this algorithm is for "engagement" - I know from playing ranked I'm not one of the best out there, I think I ranked platinum or something the one time I ventured into ranked

#

My games are almost exclusively me running around like a mad thing trying to compensate for my team, then I'll get a bunch of games where it's the other team where they don't have a hope in hell

#

The one game we did win was one I managed to turn around from losing badly to carrying the whole team to victory which I think just made the SBMM even worse for the subsequent games

olive brook
#

Words

grim citrus
tulip tusk
#

there needs to be full teams of dumb bots so every human player gets 70% win rate and then give good reviews bc they got win and medal pixels

young glen
left snow
# lusty scaffold Think I'm done with Infinite. Just got a friend to play anew and the SBMM was so...

The game doesn't want to demoralise you. Or your friends.

And it's a bit unfair to expect the MM to know exactly where your friend is at. They are still effectively playing their placement games. Give it a few more games and the MM will hopefully have a better understanding about your squad.

And for your own sanity - let go of this concept of "carrying". Everyone in the team has a role to play - and you are only expected to match your "par".

vast inlet
#

I'm surprised the game hasn't completely died yet, honestly. Haven't really seen any major updates unless I've been sleeping too long lol

onyx latch
#

🙄

smoky wave
#

Skill issue

tepid latch
#

Every day there are more people complaining about a system they don't understand 🧍‍♂️

coarse dagger
vast inlet
#

Cool. I'll check it out

muted moss
#

Yo

#

Does anyone know if griffball is coming back this week? For mcc??

earnest herald
#

Grifball lives in our hearts.

quiet yacht
#

is h2a multiplayer normally just constant grenades

livid fable
livid fable
livid fable
ruby lake
livid fable
#

Right

rugged quartz
livid fable
rugged quartz
#

What..?

smoky wave
#

LOL

hollow bobcat
#

Or people will be saying it's all about that EOMM, which is a pure myth used by salty people who can't win.

livid fable
#

if the argument made is stupid, just point out that it's stupid.

ruby lake
#

lol

hollow bobcat
#

My address to people who say that the algorithm ruins things is this; competition is a strange beast. You can be the best and still lose no matter what you do. That's the very nature of the game itself. The problem is that people just can't handle it.

ruby lake
#

what is even eomm?

hollow bobcat
# ruby lake what is even eomm?

Engagement optimized matchmaking. It's a silly theory where people think the game is supposed to make you play more with specific matchups, along with maximizing the sale of microtransactions.

ruby lake
#

i nevwr heard of that before

#

did you made that up?

hollow bobcat
#

If anything can make the game engaging, it's the aesthetics, gameplay, content, and more. And no, I did not make up EOMM. It's discussed almost everywhere.

ruby lake
#

how i never heard about that

#

if its discussed almost everywhere

hollow bobcat
#

How long have you been a gamer?

ruby lake
#

i forgot

#

maybe a lot of years

hollow bobcat
#

Search for EOMM in this discord. See how many results you get.

ruby lake
#

11 results

hollow bobcat
#

You'll get plenty more on Reddit, although that site is borderline 4chan at times

ruby lake
#

ok

hollow bobcat
#

Overall, people are just complaining about losing and they are making up all these theories as to why. They'll blame EOMM, SBMM, and more, but they'll never blame themselves.

#

I call this "main character energy".

glacial tartan
#

I submitted a ticket for a bug with MCC and received a copy pasted Halo Infinite response

ruby lake
#

ok

red spindle
#

the fact of the matter is, if a skilled player joins a random game, their skill makes the difference. if they join a SBMM game, their skill is the reason their team is less different than the other team’s, thus nullifying the difference their skill makes

#

you can rationalize the stupidity of this as much as you want, it doesn’t change that it kills the playerbase

glacial tartan
#

Wouldnt the vast majority of players exist in the middle of the skill curve and not be affected?

red spindle
#

look at the keyboard warriors preparing their essays

ruby lake
#

this matchmaking stuff is really showing me how two sided i can be in games

red spindle
#

wowie

hollow bobcat
ruby lake
#

but idk what to think

#

i just blame the game

red spindle
hollow bobcat
#

What really kills the game in my opinion are the ones who don't play the objectives. There's too much focus on KD ratios, along with too many rewards for basic kills. Other games have it worse, but the problem is still there.

ruby lake
red spindle
#

w all due respect.

ruby lake
#

its single player though

red spindle
#

csgo, the largest online multiplayer shooter game, has no sbmm

hollow bobcat
#

Are you sure?

red spindle
#

yes. csgo uses a fixed rank system.

hollow bobcat
#

Based on what source from a developer?

red spindle
#

lmao asking for a source, try google

hollow bobcat
#

No, you need to prove it

ruby lake
#

yeah uh
try googlle

hollow bobcat
#

Telling me the Google is a forfeiture of your argument.

ruby lake
#

calm doown man

#

we're all typing from screens

livid fable
red spindle
#

oh boy redditor here telling me how to speak

ruby lake
red spindle
#

lets leave it at that before u get more aggravated

ruby lake
#

i dont use reddit

smoky wave
#

You are doing a great work roleplaying your pfp

ruby lake
#

i use pinterest

smoky wave
#

Based

red spindle
#

very mature

hollow bobcat
livid fable
red spindle
#

lol yes i value highly the opinion of someone who cant google a basic fact

hollow bobcat
#

A basic fact from a developer?

smoky wave
#

So you don't have a source about it

ruby lake
#

i think i feel someone's anger

red spindle
#

much love to the actually civil individuals here. have a nice night.

ruby lake
#

i just know it

coarse dagger
#

The rule goes - if you make a claim, you're the one that provides the evidence to back up that claim

hollow bobcat
#

You see, that's the problem here. People seem to always believe that if multiple people talk about something, then there has to be true. The problem is the community has basically no knowledge of the inner workings of certain games, especially algorithms.

#

The whole smoke and fire argument is not a valid source of evidence.

red spindle
ruby lake
hollow bobcat
ruby lake
livid fable
hollow bobcat
#

The burden of proof.

red spindle
#

to you. who i am not interested in conversing w anyway

livid fable
#

There are two types of matchmaking types in CS:GO: ranked and unranked. In the first type, players are matched into a lobby based on their skill group. Moreover, a player’s skill group (rank) can be seen. When playing with friends, ranked matchmaking is far more restrictive. To keep matches fair and competitive, Valve only allows players to queue with others within five ranks of their skill group. That means a player can play with someone five ranks higher or lower than themself. An exception to this rule is when five players queue together. Players of any rank can play together as long as they are queueing in a full group of five. Also, ranked game modes are only available to players that have Prime status.

On the other hand, in unranked a player’s skill is based on their performance. However, their skill group is not public. Furthermore, there aren’t restrictions on skill groups for players that are grouping together. Players who do not have Prime status are able to play unranked with no issues.

red spindle
#

anyone w a reasonable mindset will see you for what you are as well as the very childish refutation you just made

ruby lake
#

or did you type a looooong time

hollow bobcat
coarse dagger
#

If you're going to throw things out as fact in a public forum, be prepared for those facts to be questioned. If you can't or won't back them up, you're potentially spreading misinformation.
The burdon of proof is on you, not others

livid fable
hollow bobcat
ruby lake
#

i think skill based match making works on how good or bad a person is

young glen
red spindle
coarse dagger
#

It is

#

And please stop pinging on replies

ruby lake
#

then like
the thing puts that same person with the people with same or near skill levels

smoky wave
#

Hey, at least Sword did put something about it while Vexium is still not giving anything

#

I appreciate that Sword

hollow bobcat
red spindle
#

yes shocking what google or any basic search engine can provide you with

ruby lake
#

stop bootlicking google

#

and go fiind some evidence

young glen
#

Yeah! Don't forget about good aul Bing!

coarse dagger
#

If a Google search is so simple, surely you can do it and provide your evidence

#

Simples

hollow bobcat
ruby lake
#

bing is trash

red spindle
#

no. i have provided the evidence. i spoke to it and you can either go out of your way to confirm or deny it, or just continue arguing from a lack of sufficient information. it is not my job to educate you.

smoky wave
#

With what sources

livid fable
# hollow bobcat This only mentions rankings and skill pairings. This doesn't confirm or deny any...

it says the matchmaking is based on rank
it says the rank is based on skill.
it says it restricts who you can pair up with based on your rank, which is based on your skill.
It states that it does not do this when 5 people are teamed together.
It states that in unranked, skill does not restrict people playing together.
It sounds very solidly like it's saying some modes do and some modes do not use sbmm.

hollow bobcat
red spindle
ruby lake
#

shut up man im trying to start an argument

young glen
#

'based on their appearance' lol

red spindle
smoky wave
#

It's a pepe frog clown c'mon lmao

young glen
#

hahah

hollow bobcat
red spindle
#

and that makes it okay to mock?

young glen
#

it's not your appearance

ruby lake
smoky wave
#

This is just way too funny

livid fable
young glen
#

it's a meme pfp

ruby lake
#

4channer prp

hollow bobcat
coarse dagger
red spindle
#

adorable how an admin in here will criticize me saying “crybaby” but allow users to repeatedly belittle and mock another user based on their appearance

ruby lake
#

hes a hybrid

livid fable
#

asked the dolphin...?

red spindle
#

really speaks volumes to your character

hollow bobcat
#

Vex, you're not a frog.

sullen kilnBOT
#

For server moderation concerns, please message @upbeat plover.

misty vale
#

what is going on in this chat lmao

ruby lake
#

i think vex is mad

young glen
red spindle
#

100% serious.

ruby lake
#

woah new gender

red spindle
#

you making fun of my identity is rude and inconsiderate

hollow bobcat
#

And now we're apparently making fun of his appearance based on a profile picture of a frog.

smoky wave
#

idk if it's a bit or not but it's just insane

misty vale
#

Don't feed the 4channers guys

coarse dagger
#

OK, we're done now

smoky wave
#

Epic, anyways

ruby lake
livid fable
ruby lake
#

i think he got fat now

livid fable
#

"There is no skill-based matchmaking in CS:GO. The game will automatically place you in matches with players of similar skill levels. "

misty vale
livid fable
#

what does SBmm mean if it doesn't mean that it's putting you in matches with people of similar skill?????

ruby lake
#

who the h

#

who did that

hollow bobcat
misty vale
#

CS:GO uses, by the basic definition, SBMM

livid fable
#

then what the heck do they mean by 'they don't'? are they referring to a specific jargon?

misty vale
#

the measurement of skills is literally Ws or Ls; none of this "how did a person did despite the result" it's 100% results driven

hollow bobcat
#

I'm confused about your questions.

#

And who is they?

smoky wave
#

👁️

ruby lake
#

i like turtles

#

but theyre mean

livid fable
#

I found a link that appears to have information regarding how CSgo does matchmaking.

livid fable
#

which sounds a lot like "we don't match make based on your skill, we match make based on your skill"

#

and that just does not make any sense to say out loud but I don't know how else to interpret what they are saying

livid fable
#

like if we want to be pedantic about it we could say that it's victory based matchmaking

#

but that really still feels like skill based matchmaking with fewer steps

misty vale
young glen
livid fable
#

do people refer to micrometrics specifically as skill measurement?

misty vale
#

That other guy? He's got some pepe avatar he probably came here to annoy you on purpose

livid fable
misty vale
#

Here is how it works: You win or lose games. People who win x % of games is in a "skill tier", people in similar skill tiers are paired up for games.

#

it's a pure, results driven / skills matchmaker.

#

the problem with most SBMM is that they try to engineer fun

#

and end up overengineering, and end up with a system which punishes performance.

#

especially true of free to play games where there's a plethora of players, like myself, who could care less if they win or lose

ruby lake
#

meow

glacial tartan
#

Why not use the writeup on Waypoint from 343 directly in this discussion?

misty vale
#

I literally play Halo to blastem spacemen

ruby lake
misty vale
#

Winning or losing has no effect on anything at all.

ruby lake
#

and not to sweat my butt off once i see a single pixel of an enemy spartan

glacial tartan
#

Importantly, TrueMatch also offers us the ability to include different matchmaking factors for each playlist, using configurable weights. Some of these weightable factors, presented in alphabetical order, are:

Average team skill gap: Makes the teams fair, so that either team can potentially win each game.
Individual player skill gaps: Determines how close all players' skill should be in the match. It helps avoid lower-skilled and higher-skilled players in the same game, which makes a better experience, especially for the lower-skilled players.
Latency to data center: Ensure that all players have good connections to a common datacenter
Wait time: Don’t make the players wait too long for their matches.

left snow
# livid fable i thought it was good enough to gauge skill in 2 games.

Strictly speaking TrueSkill2 needs 48 games to accurately rate a player in a 4v4 play list.

It can ball park you very quickly though. Menke alluded to (I could never find the exact quote) it being able to work out your Division (eg. Platinum) in a game or two. And in that way it could detect and start to work on Smurfs in a couple of games.

And in this case the system has to work with a genuinely new player - who are anything but consistent, and with the squad dynamic - where it can't necessarily build an opposition team best to work out your rank.

You'd expect the MMR to be volatile for a while.

glacial tartan
livid fable
#

... how lame brained

#

"we're going to assume that you're playing in social just as well as you plan on playing in ranked"

misty vale
#

yeah someone somewhere along the line decided they needed to really overthink most SBMM systems in most games.

slim flint
livid fable
#

given the number of blatant Smurf accounts I encounter frequently, I also don't think it actually can figure out what division someone belongs to in a matter of one or two games

#

when you see the same username clearing out matches in staketaculars with 40 kills just by themselves and they have zero customization and they really just outplay everyone, and then someone says that a Smurf can be detected in as little as one game, i must call bs on SOMETHING.

left snow
livid fable
#

csr.

#

is CSR involved in social?

left snow
# livid fable is CSR involved in social?

Good point. We don't know if they use the same algorithm across both types of play list.

If they aren't - and you are still coming up against Smurfs - it pretty much means they have loosened the SBMM way too far.

Do you think your problem Smurfs are solo players or players still manipulating squads to their advantage?

livid fable
#

somebody else mentioned to the higher number of them in the cosmetics channel. I don't know if it's been the past few weeks in particular or not, I just know there's been a big uptick

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I figured that was probably due to the general increase in popularity though

left snow
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Hopefully most of them are just good players returning - and they are dragged up the food chain quickly by their MMR.

livid fable
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lol, no

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if it was good players returning they still would have had some of the basic customization options instead of the default gray and Mark 7 armor and number one name plate with basic stance

left snow
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Sounds like a problem that 343 need to address.

livid fable
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if you wanna know if someone's a smurf, look at their playtime and look at their skill. time=/= skill, but there's a difference between 'i'm good bc i play other fps' and 'i know where the lines of fire are.'

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played my first 5 games of ranked

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came out gold 1

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3/5 games were determined by which team had someone quit first

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now i'm going to play 5 games of ranked and see how many games are determined by someone quitting

hollow bobcat
livid fable
hollow bobcat
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From the link that you provided?

livid fable
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Yes.

hollow bobcat
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I was typing in those keywords and nothing matched up.

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The part where it says you can find certain phrases on the page.

livid fable
hollow bobcat
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Are they the developer? Because it seems like another player opinionated article.

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What's even weirder is that they'll state it doesn't have it, but then question the existence in the title.

livid fable
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"There is no official statement or explanation of how the CS:GO matchmaking algorithm works, and no detailed explanation can be provided. According to Vitaliy Genkin, the company’s approach is to use a much more complex rating system based on improved Glicko-2 ratings but with more flexibility in the end. "

hollow bobcat
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So in other words, nobody knows.