220
#h1-high-heat-strategies
ember bronze
oblique crane
i think athena boon defiances act like death defiances in that they have a base of 50%, even if you're on stubborn defiance
was it an athena defiance?
ember bronze
oh right
yes
on the Sisyphus issue--I basically always take
even with CF2 devaluing gold by 1/1.8
- Time always matters to me--the ability to add a lot of harder heats (JS/CP/EM4) are in large part hard because they stress TD more
- Even if gold is inefficient, hitting the 270 breakpoint in Act1 is really handy to help work around UC and/or control how you fill your boon pool
honest kernel
good game
quartz mantle
Spire slaying kinda fun tho đ
solemn pulsar
tfw max heat actually feasible 
quartz mantle
Pretty sure heâs talking about StS
bronze rapids
ae 
flat flicker
Remember to drink water everyone
High heat means you need more water to stay hydrated 
Also I finally got to the elysium equivalent in returnal after 30 hours and that counts as high heat
dapper schooner
this is the casual gamer channel after all
hoary pasture
yea totally
rancid spade
if I don't do lasting consequences then I keep the 3 death defiance mirror on 32 heat right?
hoary pasture
Usually yea
rancid spade
nice,ty
rancid spade
whats the best summon for highh heat runs?
cursive portal
usually meg's
jaunty falcon
Very rarely is that the case
hoary pasture
You'll only be doing that if your main source of damage is still boonless
Like a Rama /Hestia attack
flat flicker
if I don't do lasting consequences then I keep the 3 death defiance mirror on 32...
also olympian favor so you get more rare boons 
rancid spade
Oh fck, i mixed it up
I wanted to say the keepsake that makes you invuln for 1.5sec after your take damage
bronze rapids
Oh spearpoint
I heard it's more useful for Styx poison but idk exactly how
Also from what I heard it's like, if you're getting hit for less damage (in proportion to your max HP) but multiple times quickly, then Spearpoint is better
If you're taking high damage from single, slow attacks, then it's not much utility
but Elysium has both sooooo
bronze rapids
Some take Lucky Tooth for Ely too
flat flicker
Poison is designed to make you panic tho so it helps there
big brain pause in styx but
for those that donât thereâs spear point
cursive portal
Some take Lucky Tooth for Ely too
its pretty rare honestly
flat flicker
or Chad get poisoned and finish the room before you take damage
bronze rapids
Maybe, if you're struggling again Elysium itself, then Spearpoint? And once you can get to the boss reliably then Acorn?
flat flicker
its pretty rare honestly
I pretty much only do it if im scared of a possible asterius fight
cursive portal
like if your aspect has a very easy time dealing with heroes, struggles with rooms AND you also have a gigantic amount of time then its worth it
flat flicker
my main struggle is the minotaur spin attacj
Ideally try to keep some distance since it starts up so quickly
And the problem is the first 30 damage shot still hits you đŚ
jaunty falcon
I sometimes take tooth in unmodded in case I donât see patty before Asterius miniboss
flat flicker
I sometimes take tooth in unmodded in case I donât see patty before Asterius min...
This
rancid spade
And the problem is the first 30 damage shot still hits you đŚ
true, but I usually grt hit 2x, like i cant get out fast enough, idk why
flat flicker
true, but I usually grt hit 2x, like i cant get out fast enough, idk why
FO2 or nah
rancid spade
FO2 or nah
that was on no FO, im doing a 32heat run on FO2 now
jumped from 20 to 32
flat flicker
Yeah, so on FO2 if he stops moving just run
He may not spin but just gotta get that muscle memory down and know when to run and when to smack
rancid spade
thank you
bronze rapids
There's a special pose and sound effect when he's about to spin
flat flicker
Yeah, the idea is to slow it down enough so that he can start to recognize that pattern
Also Marco, helpful to do some more 20 heats with different pacts before rushing into 32 though I can confirm yeeting it is doable
mossy zinc
that was on no FO, im doing a 32heat run on FO2 now
If you just want to beat 32 Heat and don't want to practice for 40+ or anything, then don't take FO2.
rancid spade
fantastic, i wouldve gotten the 32heat, was 50% on hades 2. pahse
but i greeded in styx, wanted to do 2more rooms after getting the stack to buy a death defiance... that cost me the run yikes
rancid spade
If you just want to beat 32 Heat and don't want to practice for 40+ or anything,...
what should i take instead?
LC seems much harder
mossy zinc
It's not.
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3 is generally the most beginner-friendly pact for 32 Heat.
rancid spade
well there is no way im doing hades with 1 bar+30%
mossy zinc
You can run circles around him at FO0.
rancid spade
yeah but thats very rng, there are times i dont see any athena boon for 5 runs in a row
ripe ermine
I mean thereâs an element of luck involved for sure. Itâs overall easier to get a little lucky on a run than not get hit on FO2
rancid spade
true, but i will try 1 more fo2 run, this time with the rail, and not gonna greed for shop rng
if not then i try LC5
mossy zinc
You can very reliably get Divine Dash and at least 1 DD that way. And even if you don't get the DD, you'll likely see Patroclus instead. And even if you don't see Patroclus, it's pretty common to beat FO0 dad and still have Acorn charges left.
rancid spade
what will patroclus even refill if I take the other DD mirror?
ripe ermine
Touch of Styx Dark gives +50% defiance healing. So you go from 30% to 80% recovery when you die in a chamber
flat flicker
what will patroclus even refill if I take the other DD mirror?
80 p max hull rather than 30 when SD pops
ripe ermine
For 15 chambers
rancid spade
oh
flat flicker
âPatty or Iâm screwedâ never stops being a thing lol
ripe ermine
So get it late-ish with a 2-3 sack and itâll last to Dad
mossy zinc
Plenty of regular Touches of Styx in Wells, too, for +10%. And they're super cheap even with CF2.
ripe ermine
Like Nyaanyaa said you donât NEED all the breaks but they help
Regular Touch of Styx great value. Those are almost instant takes for me.
mossy zinc
I was one of the most hesitant among high heat players to switch from DDs to LC4 + SD, but there's a reason it's meta. It's just simply easier than putting the 4 Heat elsewhere.
rancid spade
ok you are right
didnt feel FO2 too hard on rama
but on the rail
it was terrible
and I guess I also take dark regeneation over the 3/room?
honest kernel
Cthonic vit is better but people ussually run LC4 on heat 32 so its useless anyway
mossy zinc
and I guess I also take dark regeneation over the 3/room?
Makes no difference with LC4 anyway.
0 healing is still 0 healing.
rancid spade
i see
thought one of them did some fixed amount
but guess now
fixed as in not affected by the LC
honest kernel
only thing not affects is Guan Yu healing and defiances
mossy zinc
Cursed Slash, Draining Cutter, and Quick Recovery are also unaffected.
flat flicker
I was one of the most hesitant among high heat players to switch from DDs to LC4...
was told something similar months ago - the meta (as in nyannyaa) is right here
i ran a bunch of 20 heat LC4 to get used to it first, maybe give that a go
hoary pasture
Yea I did a few LC4 attempts too
To get used to it, since I havent played with it at all by that point
It's a bit weird sometimes you'll forget to die in a room before it ends and such but it's honestly not as bad as it sounds
next acorn
It sounds way worse than it is
rancid spade
died to minotaur
next acorn
Stubborn defiance makes it very comfy
hoary pasture
I still die to minotaur
He is known as a run killer
because small hp pool
And probably one of the biggest reasons to take Tooth over Acorn in Elysium
jaunty falcon
Otherwise youâll die to lernie
next acorn
Small arena
jaunty falcon
If you take dds
next acorn
Big spin
rancid spade
Otherwise youâll die to lernie
i died 0 times up to the mino
hoary pasture
But it's still 32
rancid spade
then he kills me 2x and run over
mossy zinc
I mean he would have still taken that much HP from you with LC0 and DDs, but then you would have lost DDs to that. That's no better.
solemn pulsar
I mean he would have still taken that much HP from you with LC0 and DDs, but the...
Unless the LC0 allowed the HP overall to stay higher. Minimum HP lost in an SD room to die is 60% of max, which could end up not even proccing a DD if your HP is still high.
Also being able to purchase refills and high roll patroclus for mass refills, it's definitely not a 1:1 comparison, the strategies can vary widely
mossy zinc
Kiss of Styx is stupid expensive, especially with CF.
solemn pulsar
ah then not dying is a stronger strategy
which LC0 can enable by raising the average HP level you're hanging out at, as a % of max HP at least
solemn pulsar
and "stupid" expensive is relative, if you have a super lean build that doesn't need to buy much you can go in on getting refills, since they appear pretty frequently from what i've seen
flat flicker
and try to avoid minibosses in room 30 since thats where asterius is like, most of the time
flat flicker
*if you took a last-room before shop chaos or erebus this becomes 31
flat flicker
<:Thanathink:672641511204061184>
is that fake news? i read that here lol
solemn pulsar
yes it is fake news
hoary pasture
Doesn't have to be Asterius
solemn pulsar
perfectly 50/50 for each midboss door you see
solemn pulsar
It rolls for the chamber basically, and both become eligible in chamber 30 / 4th chamber of elysium
mossy zinc
Are we actually arguing for DDs in high heat today? Okay.
solemn pulsar
I'm saying it's totally valid at 32 heat
if you're playing around it
I've cleared 50 heat EM4 with DDs (caveat: busted beowulf build lol) so I think there's always room to explore
mossy zinc
A lot of things are doable at 32 Heat.
solemn pulsar
And I remember a certain Wobbles being fairly committed to DDs and clearing high in the 50s
silver coral
i always use dd and ive beaten 32 heat a couple times
not saying its the best strategy but it works for me
mossy zinc
It's far from awful, just LC4 with SDs is the dominant strategy for a reason.
cursive portal
Yeah it can be done but is also significantly harder as you have to do a workaround pact
solemn pulsar
Yeah it can be done but is also significantly harder as you have to do a workaro...
wobbles 50 heat zag shield just for u
silver coral
It's far from awful, just LC4 with SDs is the dominant strategy for a reason.
yeah i just hate it cuz then ur health never rly goes higher than a certain amount
and also dying on purpose is so weird to me
idk ill stick to my dds
cursive portal
No cshot or pulv
solemn pulsar
wobbles a gamer
hoary pasture
td2 style
shy plinth
The CF0 prophet
solemn pulsar
this message is ideal
solemn pulsar
beo kinda good
shy plinth
Anyway I think it's p clear that DDs can work but are worse than SD by a large margin
solemn pulsar
the reason I did a 50 run with them is because i accidentally did one with them still on, and only noticed when i went to lose SD to heal in asphodel
and lost a DD instead LOL
that run went to hades, so i tried it again
they were charged shot beowulf runs, which i consider to be incredibly safe outside of EM3/4 fights
rancid spade
now i lost a run cuz the stack was only in the 4. room and i run out of time
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
maybe i should put fo2 back on and remove em3, cuz thats where i die a lot
shy plinth
I would instead focus on practicing the em3 fight
rancid spade
i have no issue with fo2 tho, other than the em3 part
and if i done lose 2 health there then i can take on hades too
rancid spade
yeah
shy plinth
You're gonna lose more runs if you use dds instead of sd
solemn pulsar
yeah prolly shouldn't
rancid spade
i changed the 4 LC to 1 FO, 1 damage controll and convenience fee 2
shy plinth
That's 5 heat
But also those are much harder than lc4
Your build is worse, enemies move faster, and an extra hit per enemy is significant for timer
rancid spade
i did 2 runs on lc4 and i didnt progress anywhere near I did like with this setup
shy plinth
2 runs is not enough to learn it
rancid spade
You're gonna lose more runs if you use dds instead of sd
i dont see how sd will help me if i die 2x in a room
i have no issue with any of the normal rooms
shy plinth
It makes the rest of the pact substantially less punishing
You have to clean up your boss fights anyway
If you were clearing with DD I'd say go nuts, but if what feels right to you isn't successful, you have to try something else
rancid spade
well i did 2 runs with this setup and got to hades twice, so it will be easier to finish the run with this imo
and after i did the 32 heat im not gonna do any 20+ run anymore
shy plinth
If you wanna do it your way feel free, just be aware that it is probably harder than what has been successful for others consistently
rancid spade
everyone is different tho
shy plinth
If you're jumping from 20 to 32 that's a big jump anyway
Everyone is different but what you're going through is a process that has been seen many times before
Not gonna say you can't do it your way, just that it is likely more difficult
mossy zinc
Do what's working best for you.
flat flicker
well i did 2 runs with this setup and got to hades twice, so it will be easier t...
if you aren't ready to get through that level of difficulty, you have two options: train better methods, or hope to RNJesus you make it. Both are viable, one is better for sustained success. I yeeted my first 32 and won, but my next ten attempts were all horrible failures, and i only made it to EM4 like 3 of those times. the time i did get it, i got an asphodel zeus legendary, smair/rip by mid elysium, then its push button win game. that is not a reliable strategy
LC4 forces you to play your boss fights way tighter and cleaner, but you're going for 32 heat, it's supposed to be hard
mastering boss fights is a reasonable ask for the last trophy in the game imo (the statue)
hardy garden
what even is his pact
rancid spade
if you aren't ready to get through that level of difficulty, you have two option...
fair, but i will probly just go with the get lucky and yeet it method
more fun that way for me
rancid spade
if i give up on a run then i get the exact same boons if i go in again right?
because i had a perfect run, but accidentally sold the wrong boon that might potentially cost me the run
hardy garden
youll get the same couple of first chambers
gaunt fiber
The first boon will be the same. However, your movements alter the RNG so you will not replicate your run
rancid spade
what if I move the same way?
gaunt fiber
what if I move the same way?
It's unfortunately way more cursed than that. Breaking urns, passing through shades, triggering Charon's "uuuuurgh"
hoary pasture
Yea a lot of things increment the rng
rancid spade
oh
rippp
btw why would anyone ever take skelly tooth over acorn?
acorn tanks 5hits, there is no way that's less than 100hp on hades
gaunt fiber
Mike will explain
rancid spade
hoary pasture
Acorn is usually the go-to for normal Dad, for EM4 itâs a bit different due to the adds which can shred through it so other options can be strongly considered like Tooth or Broken Spearpoint.
Youâll often have that decision to make before Elysium aswell, Elysium with BP2 can get very nasty, and you also have Asterius miniboss, both of those Acorn doesnât help you with, if you find yourself dying to those things/ scared to die against them, Tooth is a safe pick, if not then Acorn again, Acorn on Heroes and normal Hades is definitely one of the strongest defensive keepsakes and a lot of the time it will outclass tooth in that context specifically
gaunt fiber
Definitely
Just be careful of Theseus' "charge" with the gatling on the sides, it eats acorn quite easily
hardy garden
if you dont have hl5 and if you have a bunch of damage resistance from like aphro boons or arthur or something then sometimes skelly can be better for normal dad
rancid spade
2 dd+ almost full hp, strong af zeus/poseidon eirs build, and 500gold, I just need sea storm and this is the run
im on act4 already
hardy garden
idk if eris cares that much about seastorm
rancid spade
apparently not cuz im not getting it lol
again my luck, 2 shops in the chambers, none had DD refill... unreal
next acorn
sea storm eris is pretty 
rancid spade
i actually dont believe this
- room has the sack so I die + no dd refill from 0 shops
this never happened once in my prev 130 runs
mossy zinc
Lucky Tooth in Elysium can be great if your max HP is low just to carry you until you get more HP and hopefully Touch of Styx Dark.
If you're running Stubborn Defiance.
quartz mantle
5 sacks are really unlikely to happen thatâs unfortunate
gaunt fiber
welcome to hades the video game
rancid spade
5 sacks are really unlikely to happen thatâs unfortunate
yep...
quartz mantle
play modded lol
rancid spade
if mod removes the rng then idm doing this 32heat run w mods
gaunt fiber
you got to styx, you can do it
mossy zinc
To be fair, timing out at 32 Heat isn't RNG.
bright mango
what's their pact
rancid spade
same as the recommended 32 except I use FO1, and damage control1 over LC4
rancid spade
Well, you did choose that pact and mirror.
well if I dont I dont even get to hades
but we, weve been over that
bright mango
i think td2 is a really good option for 32
gaunt fiber
LC4 is definitely a new playstyle that will be harder at first
rancid spade
yeah but what else do I get to make up for that 3 heat then? tho time is rarely an issue
gaunt fiber
if you want to clear a 32 heat run and be done you don't have to go through that
quartz mantle
LC4 has made me worse at the game because I get to just unga bunga my way through rooms and refill my health whenever I die lol
rancid spade
if you want to clear a 32 heat run and be done you don't have to go through that
yep, not planning to do high heat runs after, just want the statue
gaunt fiber
TD3 is a lot of heat and very doable with practice
bright mango
td2 lets you play super slow
rancid spade
LC4 has made me worse at the game because I get to just unga bunga my way throug...
yeah, but my issue is that I have no problem with any room, + first 2 bosses, but 3. boss and then styx is where I die more than once, so yh
bright mango
like normal styx rooms?
bright mango
huh
gaunt fiber
honestly, just play shield
bright mango
^^^^
rancid spade
i should try that out tbh
rancid spade
beowulf right?
rancid spade
nice
rancid spade
well Im on heat3 with shield, so I will probly get the rewards from 3-20 should be enough practice
gaunt fiber
but yeah blocking will make your DD choice much more viable
shy plinth
Have you watched high heat clears
And have you considered recording your own runs to get feedback
rancid spade
Have you watched high heat clears
a few yeah
shy plinth
What do they do that you don't
rancid spade
well dont need feedback, Ik where im fcking up, need to learn boss3 and 4 with FO1
shy plinth
If you're losing to 5-sack timeouts then you have room to optimize in general
gaunt fiber
What do they do that you don't
played the game for hundreds of hours
bright mango
yeah just playing the game helps a lot too
hoary pasture
Iâm a casual gamer Iâm offended now
gaunt fiber
ain't you going for 56+ beowulf
mossy zinc
Iâm a casual gamer Iâm offended now
Good.
hoary pasture
Maybe
empty reef
the poison gets me
Omg i know that. I hate poison too. I often loose 1 life because of that
pseudo kernel
cant clear 45 zeus anymore
Git gud
bright mango
i'm thoroughly washed up
pseudo kernel
Git gud
rancid spade
If you're losing to 5-sack timeouts then you have room to optimize in general
only that TO once cz of a bad build usually I have 2min left when I die on hades
rancid spade
Omg i know that. I hate poison too. I often loose 1 life because of that
feelsbad
shy plinth
I am sure you can make it, but with enough practice I think you would usually clear even a 5-sack in the 15-16 minute range or lower
Like there's so much to optimize in this game
gaunt fiber
You should probably optimize your build/pathing
shy plinth
I don't know what exactly is going on in your runs, haven't seen them, if you're jumping from 20 then 32 is a big learning curve
But I can say for sure that even as someone that's done a lot of 32s I have a ton that I can do better
I'm wondering what you've identified
hoary pasture
Well that should be doable, try to take your time in the fight and donât facetank stuff
rancid spade
I am o nDC2
hoary pasture
Eris has plenty of damage
mossy zinc
Ah, you wrote damage control1 earlier.
rancid spade
oh my bad
mossy zinc
LC2 FO0 DC2 should be good with DDs.
rancid spade
hmm, that could work
I will give it a try
I might go in with less hp, but I pretty much 0 damage a FO0 hades with acorn usually
mossy zinc
Right. That was the point of my earlier recommendation lol.
Basically, you either wanna do HL5 FO0 or HL0 FO2 but not really any combination unless you have more experience.
And typically HL5 FO0 is a lot easier because you'll get hit a lot less.
But with HL0 FO2, at least the hits won't hurt too much.
rancid spade
true
shy plinth
I do recommend recording a run and posting it if you want some external perspective on opportunities you might not recognize
But practice is the real answer
mossy zinc
I also second what others have said that there's probably a lot to optimize in your decision-making in a run.
rancid spade
A 5 sack should not mean you fail to clear
i just saw this sorry, well the 5 sack caused me to fail, because I died in room 5 lol
mossy zinc
But you said you don't die in normal encounters. 
rancid spade
I will try to record it
shy plinth
Dying is typically rough for run completion
rancid spade
But you said you don't die in normal encounters. <:squirtdevious:472124054569222...
up until styx yes
rancid spade
whats that?
shy plinth
Cluster bomb+rocket bomb
rancid spade
oh
mossy zinc
Tidal Dash + Breaking Wave does the trick, too.
rancid spade
I did have cluster, but not rocket
mossy zinc
Or Smair.
rancid spade
đ˘
shy plinth
The combination of the two is super busted
left prism
B.wave my beloved
hoary pasture
Yea shredding styx is the best way to not get poisoned
rancid spade
yeah, knockbacks really makea difference there, sadly i only had it on dodge
eternal hare
đ
left prism
Styx shredderâ˘
hardy garden
well tidal dash is what you want 
pseudo kernel
Sadly?
hardy garden
infinitely spawning witches
bright mango
i cant one shot them with beo attack
hoary pasture
How hot
mossy zinc
I have a feeling if somebody walked you through a build during the run, you'd one-shot it.
hoary pasture
Yea
bright mango
trying some 50 beo
hoary pasture
Nice
rancid spade
I have a feeling if somebody walked you through a build during the run, you'd on...
yeah maybe, that could help a lot, not saying im a pro at building
mossy zinc
None of us is getting paid for Hades builds, unfortunately.
rancid spade
#h1-victory-boasting did it, thanks for the help everyone
kinda gave up on the run, went in hades with 130hp + acorn but managed to kill him
that was intense
shy plinth
Well done đ
rancid spade
thanks
mossy zinc
@rancid spade congratulations! 
LC2 did the trick, I see.
And probably just the overall practice you got from your attempts.
rancid spade
Thank you @mossy zinc
Yeah, removing fo1 was the main cause I think, barely took damage on hades
Well maybe lc4 could've worked with dd, but doesnt matter now
rancid spade
đ thanks
mossy zinc
Well maybe lc4 could've worked with dd, but doesnt matter now
That's something to figure out for when you do all weapons at 32.
dapper schooner
Alternatively: get clockets and blast styx
just get the styx shredderâ˘ď¸
hoary pasture
Attempting 40 heat for the first time anyone got some tips for me
dapper schooner
Attempting 40 heat for the first time anyone got some tips for me
optimal pact is RI4, EM4, AP2, FO2,LC4, HL5,CP2. The best weapon to use is "gilgamesh" aspect of the fists, distant memory is the best keepsake for the whole run. Good luck and hope you win your first attempt
hardy garden
cf2 plus uc better than lc4
dapper schooner
cf2 plus uc better than lc4 <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
nah RI4 LC4 is optimal.
hardy garden
gl
hoary pasture
dapper schooner
hoary pasture
I threw the Beo one a few times
Not nice
I think Iâll do 55 Heat with icy flare
To switch things up
next acorn
flat flicker
Attempting 40 heat for the first time anyone got some tips for me
yeah take em4 and don't get hit easy game
damage control is two free heat too
eternal hare
free until it's not
flat flicker
especialy on beo, your second and third casts will still connect
dapper schooner
bright mango
Dc2 on beo
next acorn
Dc1 on Beo
timber pike
Dc1
plain parcel
DC2 is free on Chiron if the special is doing the damage.
mossy zinc
DC2 Chiron bad.
honest kernel
DC2 hestia 
mossy zinc
Imagine taking forever for every single Numbskull or Witch in Tartarus.
ember bronze
pseudo kernel
nice
ember bronze
I'm going to admit something here
my last runs were some other weapon
and I accidentally had reload unbound
and didn't notice until Hades
mossy zinc
That's the nice thing about Eris, it requires very little brain activity.
pure lily
40 heat rail, would you go Eris or Hestia
mossy zinc
Yes.
pure lily
Does hestia struggle with speed?
mossy zinc
No.
pure lily
I always lose a lot of time on em3 heroes
mossy zinc
Maybe if you're not as used to it.
Remember you can use your Special every other Reload.
pure lily
I've literally never used it đ
mossy zinc
If you don't do that, you're missing a lot of DPS.
mossy zinc
And make sure you look for Strike and Lunge from Master Chaos.
I.e., Attack and Dash-Strike damage.
pure lily
And put reload on a trigger or bumper maybe
flat flicker
And put reload on a trigger or bumper maybe
i use stick, which is great for eris, but i switch it to a paddle for hestia
hardy garden
hestia was faster than eris for a bit
mossy zinc
Most commonly L1/LB, yeah, since you don't need Codex during combat anyway
flat flicker
hestia ez if you get clockets and dont need to play hestia
flat flicker
hestia was faster than eris for a bit <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
O.o
hardy garden
also zyruvias has a modded sub 10 50 heat hestia
flat flicker
based
mossy zinc
i use stick, which is great for eris, but i switch it to a paddle for hestia
If you use RS for Reload, you can't press Special or Cast or Dash at the same time. If you use LS, you lose movement accuracy whenever you Reload.
They should have swapped Codex and Reload by default tbh.
flat flicker
maybe paddle special and reload for eris too
not like cast really comes up much on eris
hmm
mossy zinc
It does if you're being speedy.
hardy garden
free damage is free damage
dapper schooner
That's the nice thing about Eris, it requires very little brain activity.
can confirm
mossy zinc
Anyway if you're having timer issues, you can try Tidal Dash start on Hestia.
dapper schooner
mind empty while speedrunning
mossy zinc
I didn't know speedrunners had a mind.
dapper schooner
i just mash the buttons and they die
hardy garden
i think my hestia 40 heat boonless was a rail pb
dapper schooner
I didn't know speedrunners had a mind.
i have one when im not speedrunning
hardy garden
though my rail time wasnt that fast to begin with
dapper schooner
i think my hestia 40 heat boonless was a rail pb <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
what time did you get
hardy garden
idk like 14:40 or something
pure lily
i use stick, which is great for eris, but i switch it to a paddle for hestia
I dont have paddles
flat flicker
L1 prob then
pure lily
Most commonly L1/LB, yeah, since you don't need Codex during combat anyway
Lb is my cast, that might mess with me to unlearn
pure lily
i think my hestia 40 heat boonless was a rail pb <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Boonless 
dapper schooner
40 with DDs
hardy garden
well olympian free*
dd's are good for boonless
you have a crap ton of gold and a crap ton of health
like see the 520 health and 1k leftover gold
pure lily
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/890036464400883722/H...
Why room re-roll
hardy garden
so i can roll away boons
like styx has the habit of offering a lot of them and not giving you two sacks
pure lily
Ap 2?
dapper schooner
unmodded moment.
hardy garden
i legit 5 sacked when doing 32 olympian free
ember bronze
What casts do people like for Achilles
hardy garden
usually phalanx or hunting blades
flat flicker
Beam
ember bronze
Hestia hammers?
jaunty falcon
Clockets always good, targeting/ricochet/piercing/hazard are also good
ember bronze
I just lost a run to time
But it was weird, I hovered at 1 HP a few ticks
Some things I know of prevent you dying to TD (Athena call, DProtection), but I didnât have either
jaunty falcon
You can iframe through them by dashing
jaunty falcon
Only preventing death I believe
quartz mantle
The general vibe is that you cannot die while invincible
honest kernel
anyone can help with hera 16 heat?
mossy zinc
A little more specific?
honest kernel
A little more specific?
what to put the heat on
to not be that hard
and i am playing with max hera
heady olive
is em3 td3 lc4 hl1 good lol
gaunt fiber
no need to have lc4
mossy zinc
Don't do CP JS DC CF AP RI and you should be good, pretty much.
Get broken build.
Kill everything.
GGs.
honest kernel
what to put the heat on
.
yooo ty so much this really helped me you have no idea how much it helped me clear with 16 heat
mossy zinc
People gave you plenty of help. That passive aggressiveness is uncalled for.
It also comes off very entitled ngl.
quartz mantle
yooo ty so much this really helped me you have no idea how much it helped me cle...
Glad we could help đ
hoary pasture
flat flicker
yooo ty so much this really helped me you have no idea how much it helped me cle...
Ri4 em4 lc4 ez
honest kernel
People gave you plenty of help. That passive aggressiveness is uncalled for.
i never said you never gave help.i was just appreaciating the fact no one answear and i got ignored
honest kernel
Ri4 em4 lc4 ez
thx
flat flicker
Thatâs sarcastic, donât. Where is the pharaohâs heat progression guide
Search for heat progression guide from asatos
quartz mantle
Man both Mike and Nyaanyaa gave you advice
16 heat just kinda throw stuff on
You could do like EM2, BP, UC, MM
TD2 maybe
flat flicker
quartz mantle
fill in the rest with Hard Labor or some FO depending on if you want to practice against fast enemies or not
honest kernel
Man both Mike and Nyaanyaa gave you advice
where?
honest kernel
they answeared to someone else lmfso
honest kernel
is em3 td3 lc4 hl1 good lol
they were talking to this guy?
honest kernel
maybe
quartz mantle
It was also general advice for heat stuff anyways
flat flicker
but that was directed at you
hoary pasture
It was also general advice for heat stuff anyways
^
honest kernel
i thought so cause that guy asked something and they started talking
quartz mantle
Is it?
quartz mantle
lol
flat flicker
coulda sworn it was new but
whatever
Also thought Olympian favor was meta, weâve all made mistakes before
quartz mantle
I pretty much always play with these pacts (+TD3 usually)
I've been trying mirrorless stuff so I like TD2 for practice
hoary pasture
Join me on the mirrorless 50 EM4 grind
(Although I'm not really grinding it because its boring )
quartz mantle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459479648603078658/937037303724015677/unk...
@honest kernel Generally speaking this is a decent core of pacts to learn for pushing heat, maybe you can take FO or EM down a notch or two
I've been trying some mirrorless EM4
got to phase 3 in 40 heat one time but choked
It's pretty refreshing but also I just got Legends Arceus so that's where my time is going towards
mossy zinc
Well, that's definitely how one will be ignored in the future.
honest kernel
<@456226577798135808> Generally speaking this is a decent core of pacts to learn...
aight ty
honest kernel
Well, that's definitely how one will be ignored in the future.
?
what do you mean by that
flat flicker
It's pretty refreshing but also I just got Legends Arceus so that's where my tim...
oh word, is it like, fun? sword and shield were just painful, i didnt make it past the first boss, shut up rival i knew how to use poke balls before the guy who programmed you was five
quartz mantle
It is hellllla refreshing compared to swsh
And also just in general I'm having a lot of fun with it
It's a different experience alltogether but I feel like it also stands well on it's own
flat flicker
Word. Yeah I just finished returnal, that game is basically hades if every ten runs you can take off two heat starting from 60 lol
Need a new game
quartz mantle
Nice, yea I feel like Legends is genuinely a good and fun game
like I enjoyed BDSP and SwSh despite everything about them but this game is just actually fun and I don't have to be an apologist for it
quartz mantle
There are some funny little graphical things like pokemon will fade in and out of existence if they're too far away and the trees look funny but that's pretty much it
flat flicker
Nice, yea I feel like Legends is genuinely a good and fun game
aight, ill add it to my list of potentials. too many games coming out lol i havent even played hades in like a week
quartz mantle
Honestly fair there are a lot of good games coming out and I'm hyped for it
definitely picking up the new kirby game when that launches and might even get the new sonic game that was announced depending on how the reviews go
flat flicker
it's only a matter of time til i have another weeklong hades binge and fall behind on other stuff lol
quartz mantle
I feel that lmoa
flat flicker
and my last game was Returnal, which at least when i bought it was "hades in space" (not a direct comparison but...close enough)
eh, let's see if i can still do a ten min run, snowy af today not tryn to leave the house lol
mossy zinc
Seriously, this is not the right channel.
clever otter
if you want to keep talking about video games other than hades, #video-games is the right channel for it
cursive portal
Join me on the mirrorless 50 EM4 grind
Might join you in the 58 mirrorless grind
Mirrorless 60 would be pretty legendary
I think zag shield could do it
hardy garden
baj technically could do mirrorless 60
fallow sun
What's the high heat strategy on sword?
flat flicker
What's the high heat strategy on sword?
Whatâs your favorite aspect?
fallow sun
Whatâs your favorite aspect?
Dont really have one yet honestly
I got to credits on Shield, and mostly use it, Bow or Gun
but I got Dark Thirst on Sword so i wanna try it out
flat flicker
My first one at 32 on sword was an Excalibur with aphro attack into smoldering air
fallow sun
My first one at 32 on sword was an Excalibur with aphro attack into smoldering a...
What was your call, do you remember?
hoary pasture
Zeus probably
flat flicker
Yeah Zeus
fallow sun
Interesting, I've never tried Zeus with Smoldering Air
(ive not really tried it in general)
What makes it strong?
verbal elk
High damage every 5 seconds
iirc Zeus & Dio are the 2 highest damaging calls in the game
hoary pasture
Zeus Call is one of those calls where youâll do a lot of damage through lesser calls
hoary pasture
Yea Smoldering Air charging rate is very fast
Zeus has a very high ceiling for damage aswell
honest kernel
iirc Zeus & Dio are the 2 highest damaging calls in the game
rip current posiden is also really good
hoary pasture
Every zeus boon you get will make the call even stronger
Static Discharge Double Strike etc
honest kernel
smair, dstrike, static discharge, s blot zues air is bussin
flat flicker
Zeus loves more Zeus
honest kernel
best legendary boon imo because its syngery with its gods boons
flat flicker
Smair with Zeus is path of least resistance since you donât want Artemis or ares calls (dem is ok, but not great)
@hoary pasture if you had zeus call and smair and thatâs it, do you take an epic jolted or epic double strike
honest kernel
tuff choice theyre both so good
flat flicker
Normally would be jolted but on call, double strike feels like way more than 25 percent boost
honest kernel
id take jolted because dstrike doesnt have as good rarity scaling but if its late in the run dstrike sooner to open s bolt is good
flat flicker
wait level 6 double strike is bad? Iâve been doing that a lot lol
Focusing poms on double strike
honest kernel
its good, but not as good as jolted is what i meant
flat flicker
Ah like jolted poms more valuable
Does jolted pop double strike?
Like can I double jolt a dude
honest kernel
Yes
flat flicker
based
honest kernel
splitting bolt is the legendary
d strike is a tier 2 that satisfies the legendary pre-reqs
hoary pasture
I could see myself taking both, I donât really know which one is more damage but you cant go wrong with either, and yea Double Strike does a bit more than the tooltip says for Flare / Call / Flourish so I wouldnt pom it if you have good rarity, if I have like a common I could pom it once or something but like whoâs gonna sit there and count how many bolts are hitting, I just know itâs doing something noticeable
fallow sun
Ok so Zeus smair with aphro attack = Good Build across all weapons
(except bow cause you waste the special)
actually wait you could still go demeter special probably, just not as much damage if you focus on zeus call
plus you get pstatus
hoary pasture
Ok so Zeus smair with aphro attack = Good Build across all weapons
Well itâs good all around yea
But for some stuff you donât actively shoot for it
Like itâs not what youâre mainly building, but if you see itâs almost never a bad pick if you have a good call
Example would be like Rama or Eris or something
shy plinth
Yeah I can think of zero builds that actively aren't interested in smoldering air
Like we don't want Artemis call or whatever
But it's still just super good and if you get billow on top of it, everything is busted
fallow sun
Oof imagine
shy plinth
If you keepsake Zeus early it's not too hard to set up
solemn pulsar
Donât sell call and equip dad call when you have smoldering either
fallow sun
Donât sell call and equip dad call when you have smoldering either
oh yeah dad call
Incidentally, I just got the dad keepsake, is dadcall actually good for anything?
it just seems like a worse athena call
solemn pulsar
Itâs very good for speedrunning and horribly explained ingame
solemn pulsar
After you leave intangibility you get +100% damage for 2 seconds
For full call itâs for all 5
solemn pulsar
And +100% movespeed while invulnerable
fallow sun
thats busted
so you take a burst option like charon + aphro attack artemis special and just melt every boss you see
left prism
*chiron
hoary pasture
In high heat it would look more something like this:
Use Dad Call > Eat 2 spins > Die
shy plinth
Yeah that's about right lol
fallow sun
In high heat it would look more something like this:
Use Dad Call > Eat 2 spins ...
HAHAHA
dude spins still get me
the fact that dadspin moves with his character model is such a trick
kingspin is small enough that I can just get out of range, but dadspin is too big for that without a movespeed buff, so I get owned
shy plinth
Usually dashing through it is the key
fallow sun
yeah its the timing
i dash too early
cause i see the telegraph, I go "asjkdfaashjdkf" and instantly dash, and by the time by second dash finishes I get tagged
shy plinth
Dash striking also has way fewer iframes than dashing
So if you're dash striking you want to usually empty dash instead
fallow sun
oh yeah i empty dash
quartz mantle
Does jolted pop double strike?
Every "bolt" attack benefits from double strike
Special, Dash, Call, Jolted, Heaven's Vengeance, etc.
Also Seastorm
flat flicker
based
fallow sun
What are the popular cast builds for high heat then?
cause I usually go demetercannons
but I recognise that they have some weaknesses
shy plinth
Depending on how high you go, I can't say that there are many
fallow sun
Oh really? okay
shy plinth
Beo and Hera are the closest to cast builds probs
Beo mirage shot is quite meta
But over 50ish heat people end up in CF2 APx pacts and boons are hard to find
This is ykc's 60 clear for example
The build is... have passion flare
jaunty falcon
Pray for snow burst
shy plinth
Snow burst good
quartz mantle
What are the popular cast builds for high heat then?
Hunting Blades can work until you get to like 40+ after that point cast builds kinda stop working as well unless your aspect rhymes with Beowulf or Hera
hardy garden
dc2 beo not stonks
gaunt fiber
Achilles can still work with demeter
at 50 I mean, can trivialize EM4
but yeah cast builds are hungry for boons and poms
fallow sun
https://i.imgur.com/8fmwOCY.jpeg
yeah that looks about right...dio/demeter lol
ok well i gotta unlock the secret aspects then before i start playing with castbuild
shy plinth
Oh you're pretty early on
Yeah there's a lot to learn lol, pretty incredible how much depth hades has
fallow sun
Yeah for sure. My max heat on a run has been 10 so far, which is already pretty nutty
all of it is dumped into mob density, elite mob buffs and HP
so bosses are still fine, but standard fights can get absolutely insane, especially wrath rooms
I thought I was good at Hades, but then I walked into a Demeter's Wrath fight with nothing but a horde of archers
can't turtle if demeter keeps dropping hurricanes on you
shy plinth
HP?
fallow sun
mob hp up
fallow sun
oh lmao
shy plinth
Calisthenics program is incredibly punishing
shy plinth
It boosts boss hp too
fallow sun
Shield of Chaos with CP is a sloooooooow fight
shy plinth
Shield of chaos is slow period
shy plinth
So this channel is generally going to give advice guided towards 32+ - we're happy to answer questions but keep in mind that general chatter here might not translate super well to early heat pushes
fallow sun
Nah fair call đ
fallow sun
I wanted to get an understanding of the meta so I went here
shy plinth
The meta you're at and the meta here will have significant differences so keep that in mind
But if you really want to jump head first into high heat prepare yourself for a big learning curve
Heat geometrically scales because the pacts compound with each other
There are vods from high heat players pinned in the spreadsheet, check em out
flat flicker
Thanks for the info! đ
if you do want to become a sweaty tryhard and crank out 32 heat, the pacts to get comfortable with are LC4/Stubborn, em3, td3 and some of the tougher BP2 combos. My heat progression was +1 if it was close, +2 if it was easy, until i yeeted from 20-32, which i started 1-0 and then was 1-11 doing so. breaking down the pacts into manageable chunks so you learn them goes a real long way
shy plinth
Yeah
The progression I recommend leans into EM, MM, TD, and BP early as well as UC
Because then you just kinda get used to it and it becomes part of the game
"Free heat" as they say
flat flicker
i know lol
fallow sun
Okay awesome, that makes sense
I'm thinking I might as well gradually up the heat, just to keep things interesting while I finish the postgame story
shy plinth
Avoid CP, AP, and RI like the plague
Yeah
I followed the dark thirst and went one heat at a time on everything to immerse myself super slowly
Many others in this channel are much better than me and made bigger jumps
shy plinth
Good plan imo
Oh and I think you mentioned earlier that you're on priv status
Fam fave and dark foresight both really help with runs
Would go out of your way for those on the mirror
fallow sun
I havent unlocked the last two mirror bits yet
idk if those two are at the bottom
but ill check
warm dagger
I did a CF, JS,CP,HS, RI, AP EM3 run earlier to clear out a couple of prophesies on Hera..... Needless to say it was difficult.
shy plinth
My goodness
left prism
I havent unlocked the last two mirror bits yet
dark foresight is green side of olympian favor
Fam fave is green of P.status
flat flicker
Many others in this channel are much better than me and made bigger jumps
for what it's worth, i made that 12 heat jump, but you're better than me lol
my brother went 16 to 36 and got it his first try
shy plinth
Hard refute that second sentence
warm dagger
It was 21 minutes but I did the deed and got ALOT of blood in the deal.
shy plinth
That just means I'm better at talking
left prism
i think i did the jump from 19 heat on rail to 32 lol
flat flicker
me when that podcast launched: "uh take athena dash i guess and try not to die"
warm dagger
I think Hat's trick is formatting and not talking about random stuff... Really drives the info home.
shy plinth
That's a good plan tho!
flat flicker
same, but i had it for switch and like
shy plinth
I was a switch gamer all the way through cross saves
flat flicker
dont have any idea how to do the whole content creator thing lol
shy plinth
That part I have the skill set for đ
warm dagger
I was on Switch for 300 runs and now play only on PC.
flat flicker
yeah like if you made another episode and needed a guest, i'm a decent plan b
i need hardware and like
desire lol
shy plinth
Yeah, I have too many other podcasts
I put that one on hiatus and still have time for a run here or there but not enough to do it regularly
flat flicker
figured
yeah when the game came out, i impulse bought it cause greek myth was cool, age of calamity was seizure inducing and i had covid bad
so it was like, 12 hours a day each of sleep and Hades
but with no real rhythm to when they'd be
warm dagger
i think i did the jump from 19 heat on rail to 32 lol
I think Rail at 32 is the easiest for me. Not minimalizing your accomplishment. 32 is 32 is 32 and still a task for me.
flat flicker
I think Rail at 32 is the easiest for me. Not minimalizing your accomplishment. ...
i think the majority of people who go for the skelly trophy and yeet it use eris
warm dagger
I also think that this is a factt.
flat flicker
how many of yall got your first 32 clear with eris - vote with the emojis
shy plinth
My first 32: G I L G A M E S H
warm dagger
Demeter ME for me.
pseudo kernel
paws up
shy plinth
My first 40: G I L G A M E S H
flat flicker
looks like we were incorrect lol
warm dagger
Eris was definitely the second 32 for me though. Sea Storm.
left prism
My first 32: G I L G A M E S H
dash only or normal gilga?
left prism
ap1
shy plinth
It was a highly cursed pact
warm dagger
Gilga rhythm still evades me.
left prism
reject its rythm, play dash only
flat flicker
Gilga rhythm still evades me.
You can hold it down and repeatedly dash
If you werenât aware
I learned that from hatâs podcast
warm dagger
I haven't listened to HA in more than 6 months and only do a couple runs a day currently.
left prism
gilga dashes are kinda sad
warm dagger
What happened was I messed up the cross save and deleted my 400 run file.
left prism
ouch
warm dagger
I have the mirror done except for Fated Authority.
heady olive
is em3 td3 lc4 hl1 good lol
yea i was answering ur qn, shldve been more specific lol
that adds up to 16 i think
hardy garden
think thats 17. em3 and td3 add 6 each
coarse acorn
32 beo is hard, but i just need to get better at dashing and rushing out of dash
hoary pasture
32 beo is hard, but i just need to get better at dashing and rushing out of dash
Are you building Flood Flare?
coarse acorn
Yea
hoary pasture
Well gl
coarse acorn
Im also now trying different weapons, like pos sword and stuff. I like the fact that I actually have to keep paying attention
I'm finding that my actual main issue is the furies
fallow sun
Im also now trying different weapons, like pos sword and stuff. I like the fact ...
I love this lmao. This was my experience leaving shield
'oh god I have to press space again'
solemn pulsar
I'm finding that my actual main issue is the furies
if furies is the issue building passion flare could help. more damage up front and weak application
you lose a bit in the back end due to less likely mirage shot, but I think you could clear without it, passion flare with decent rarity and a bunch of poms does good damage
hoary pasture
You could also go for pstatus snow burst to back it up
hoary pasture
flat flicker
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659820450297282585/937380812763054141/unk...
lol i guess it rounded up on the tight deadline damage?
cursive portal
Society if zeus wasn't a terrible aspect
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/659820450297282585/937380812763054141/unk...
You should dash into the deadline to inflict Weak on it.
pure lily
@hardy garden you were the one that did boonless 40 heat Hestia right?
hardy garden
uh ya
pure lily
How viable would you say that pact was, mainly AP2 but still take boons
Or is that a dumb idea lol
hardy garden
well ap2 adds more rng since you cam be forced to take an attack boon or something and it limits hammers. but anything else doesnt matter much
if youre not doing boonless then i wouldnt take above ap1 for 40 heat
pure lily
If you seeded a good attack
Is that mainly what matters
Fair
Jw
Love an excuse to heal more
hardy garden
well hestia will still benefit a lot from being able to get the right boons/hammers. like you could get clockets, or smouldering air, or be able to take chaos or something
athena dd's/better hermes too
pure lily
What's the cadence of attacking then, shoot once, reload, special?
hardy garden
What's the cadence of attacking then, shoot once, reload, special?
special cooldown lets you do it every two attack + reloads
unless you ahve epic swift flourish then you can do it every reload i think
astral peak
Why people despise so much catalystic program?
I prefer that over benefits package
Even though is less heat
pure lily
Mainly because of boss health increase
hardy garden
well bp1 is 2 heat and adds modifiers to only armored enemies. cp2 adds 30% hp to everything
mossy zinc
unless you ahve epic swift flourish then you can do it every reload i think
Nope. I thought Heroic did that, but last time I had that, it didn't work out like that. So I guess Swift Flourish just kinda useless on Hestia. Or I think I had Hazard Bomb when it did work, so maybe that changes the cooldown a bit... or I just had Triple Bomb and forgot about it.
hardy garden
moment
mossy zinc
Maybe it reduces it to every 1.1 reloads or something, so if there's a bit of delay between your Attacks then it works.
mossy zinc
Why people despise so much catalystic program?
I mean fight Hades at 50 Heat and then fight him again at 50 Heat with CP2.
Also taking twice as long for enemies with Hestia because they die from two shots instead of one is not a lot of fun.
astral peak
I mean fight Hades at 50 Heat and then fight him again at 50 Heat with CP2. <:du...
Bold of you to assume i can reach hades at 50
I suck at mirror and pact
Mirror not so much i think
mossy zinc
I think my point got across though lol.
mossy zinc
Doesn't need to be 50 anyway. Just HL5 FO2 HS with and without CP2.
Same for the EM3 fight.
hoary pasture
It's pretty bad
mossy zinc
Solo EM Asterius with no Acorn and he has +30% HP.
Chamber 34 unarmored Strongbows and they all have +30% HP.
Hypnos trolling you after you die and he has +30% HP.
hoary pasture
chamber 1 lonely thug but he has +30% hp
mossy zinc
Nighty Night Bruiser Snakestones and they have +30% HP.
pseudo kernel
cp2 isnt that bad you just gotta get a lot of free rooms and damage
mossy zinc
Yeah, just don't run into any enemies.
And if you do it on clear 10, you can skip dad, too.
astral peak
My boy dio may help
flat flicker
And I think it applies to armor too so that sense of when youâll break armor is all out of whack and youâll make a move that would have been smart normally that backfires cause you didnât break the armor
mossy zinc
CP2 applies to armor, yes.
fallow sun
and then theres me, I took CP2 BP2 and JS3 as my first heat options
I kid you not
Cause I was like "uhh i dont want the bosses to have spare abilities thats scary"
Then I walked into a wrath room with strongbows
shy plinth
Surprising number of people do that stuff
BP2 is fine
CP2 JS3? Less fine, especially early
fallow sun
Yeah
flat flicker
We had a fun convo a few days ago about our first 32 pacts
fallow sun
Styx was filthy
shy plinth
Oh yeah they're universally cursed
fallow sun
I did DC2 Zag bow as my first few heats
god oof
flat flicker
DC is super unbased
flat flicker
Even on rama and Eris still a ballache
shy plinth
It was awful lol
shy plinth
And since then I've learned how surprisingly common it is for people to come in here and say they have trouble with TD and then their pact has JS CF AP DC CP
For some reason slowing down rooms and minimizing your damage makes it harder to hit the timer
shy plinth
Who can say
fallow sun
just hit them harder
shy plinth
Yeah I evolved from that horrendous first time 32 to an FO2 CF0 gamer
CF0 = hit them harder
next acorn
CP1 TD0 gang
shy plinth
D:
next acorn
Wouldâve been CP2 if I didnât ask here
astral peak
CP2 applies to armor, yes.
Worst pact ever