If you turned on calisthenics program it's generally not recommended
#h1-high-heat-strategies
undone tartan
Imo Arthur can handle FO2 but FO2 at 32 heat is generally something I avoid since it definitely makes things a lot harder
undone tartan
At very high heat, Elysium also becomes a concern (I’d argue a bigger concern) because JS3 Elysium just takes so long
shy plinth
But if Nyaanyaa is awake she'll yell at me for saying that
undone tartan
You don’t need HL5 or FO2 at 32 heat
shy plinth
You can get pretty creative at 32 but I think the average most beatable pacts will have one of those two
The stepping stone at that heat is choosing which of HL5/FO2/TD3 you want to skip
But if you wanna do other stuff and like partial on either FO or HL then you can, you end up with CF and JS stuff and DC if your weapon allows
undone tartan
waxen relic
But if Nyaanyaa is awake she'll yell at me for saying that
Let me yell at you instead.
shy plinth
D:
undone tartan
I find that CF1 isn’t really an issue
shy plinth
I mean it's not an issue but spending less is obv nice
undone tartan
CF2 is still not a huge deal imo (I know others would disagree)
shy plinth
But you are correct in saying you don't need FO2 or HL5 for 32, 32 has a lot of room for flexibility
The value in learning either of those lies in how far you intend to push heat
undone tartan
I mean it's not an issue but spending less is obv nice
Yeah but I prefer CF1 to lower HL a bit
shy plinth
If you use FO2 you can lower HL a lot 
shy plinth
I see someone is preparing the channel for Nyaanyaa's arrival
undone tartan
FO2 at 32 is a bad idea unless you’re totally used to it and don’t want to turn it off because you think it will mess you up in the future imo
shy plinth
It's an option and allows you to have a pretty forgiving pact overall
But there are so many ways to go at 32
No real correct answer
jaunty falcon
FO2 HL5 does mean that you can spend 0 time in encounters
unique zephyr
CF0 is really nice and FO2 is a good way to run CF0, also it transitions nicely into 40 heat
undone tartan
I really like my 32 heat pact
undone tartan
CF0 is really nice and FO2 is a good way to run CF0, also it transitions nicely ...
Wait you do 40 heat with CF0? I do 40 with CF2 
jaunty falcon
I do CF0
shy plinth
CF0 is crack cocaine
undone tartan
Ok actually
unique zephyr
No I mean I do 32 with CF0
jaunty falcon
Every time I play CF0 I end up with 600 gold
unique zephyr
I do 40 with CF2
undone tartan
I do CF1 if I’m able to use DC2
unique zephyr
I just ran FO2 all the time
undone tartan
Every time I play CF0 I end up with 600 gold
Sounds like you’d be better off with at least CF1 then 
sand temple
I was still using CF0 at 40
waxen relic
CF0 is good if you want to leave RI2 on, but counteract it by buying stuff. 
jaunty falcon
Just not used to having so much flexibility
mossy zinc
But if Nyaanyaa is awake she'll yell at me for saying that
Not at all, I always say that my pact is the best starting point I've found for newer players, not that it's the same for everyone.
shy plinth
undone tartan
I can’t imagine a situation where you use RI2 CF0. I just can’t imagine that you would be so desperate for heat, yet can afford to do CF0
jaunty falcon
No you would never do that
waxen relic
You do with RI4
shy plinth
Either way I think the interesting part of 32 is that there are so many ways to go and what stands out is which pacts to not take
undone tartan
I think it’s good to avoid both HL5 and FO2 if you’re starting out at 32 (and for me I have experience at 32 but I still prefer to avoid those)
shy plinth
As long as 32 pacts don't have CP or RI or AP they're probs fine
undone tartan
Or EM4
shy plinth
Yes or EM4
undone tartan
Yeah that’s crazy
shy plinth
I would guess he stopped recommending td3 when his stream chat kept complaining about timer
mossy zinc
AP1 is fine.
undone tartan
Ok wait please tell me nobody here would pick AP1 over CF2
sand temple
well he also wasn't recommending LC4
jaunty falcon
It's very unnecessary on 32 tho. I still find myself avoiding it at 40
shy plinth
Jeez
sand temple
which does mean you have to make up the heat elsewhere
waxen relic
The worse the player the more free is Ap1 
shy plinth
If you already make bad choices ap1 is free heat
jaunty falcon
Lmao
mossy zinc
AP1 and CF2 are both fine.
undone tartan
I think AP1 is really bad and I don’t get why people keep saying it’s manageable. Sure, I still take it for 45 because it’s better than CP, RI, or EM4
shy plinth
Personal experiences aren't gonna be universal
jaunty falcon
It's a bit of a pain
Sometimes it is free, sometimes it leaves you with a level 2 cast and a level 6 aid
shy plinth
It's unpleasant but if people have good mechanics they can get through it
Wouldn't be something I'd ever recommend but there are crazier things to do
mossy zinc
CF2 AP1 builds when you have Dark Foresight are still gonna be better than most CF0 AP0 builds before we had Dark Foresight tbh.
waxen relic
Sadly.
undone tartan
Imo, it’s a really stupid pact because I feel like it just kinda requires me to get luckier. My 45 heat run didn’t really feel it because I just got everything I needed. But a lot of the previous runs were literally killed by it when it crossed off divine dash, twin shot, last stand, etc
shy plinth
Higher heat is about the grind
undone tartan
Higher heat is about the grind
That’s unfortunate. I don’t want to grind for good RNG, I want to grind for the skill to beat it. My consistency goes way down, and that’s all it really affects
mossy zinc
Runs don't die because Divine Dash is crossed out. Runs die because player can't win without Divine Dash? Maybe. 
waxen relic
AP is not the best choice for streaking.
undone tartan
I once got both stand boons on AP2 lmao
I got both stand boons offered with AP1… on a random boon in a shop where I forgot to use my Stubborn Defiance
mossy zinc
Sounds like user error to me. 
undone tartan
Runs don't die because Divine Dash is crossed out. Runs die because player can't...
Perhaps 
undone tartan
Sounds like user error to me. <:courte5Ohno:851568351288360990>
Never said it wasn’t
If you saw my messages from when it happened yesterday, I didn’t blame the game I was just upset that I forgot to use my SD
I think it was a 44 heat Beowulf run
mossy zinc
I just think it's funny. It's happened to all of us plenty of times.
undone tartan
I might have got it had I not made the mistake
sand temple
I still wish that AP would not show you the options at all instead of showing you the names of crossed out stuff
undone tartan
But whatever
undone tartan
I just think it's funny. It's happened to all of us plenty of times.
I can think some stuff is funny like when I lost a 40 heat Guan Yu run (that I certainly was gonna lose in Elysium anyway because it’s Guan Yu) to a blue lernie head which dropped its attack hitbox early when I killed it
mossy zinc
lol
I guess it's kind of the same thing as Wringers still grabbing you when you kill them.
undone tartan
Yeah that’s happened to me
I was just so confused because not only did the head drip a hitbox after dying, the shocking part was that the hitbox seemed to come out early
mossy zinc
Yeah, it's definitely early.
undone tartan
Which is super weird
mossy zinc
No, it was just the shockwave that immediately dropped. It was way too early for it to come out even if the head had been alive.
undone tartan
Exactly
jaunty falcon
I made a stupid error last night. Usually I am pretty bad at the solo Asterius fight, so I don't worry about losing SD for Athena, but I had a run where I left myself with 2hp and my SD left :(
undone tartan
mossy zinc
Oh yeah, I do that sometimes.
undone tartan
I do that dumb SD stuff all the time. Recently I’ve gotten a lot better at remembering to use it in Styx in case I’m about to get the sack
jaunty falcon
Not my fault that Beowulf is just too strong
mossy zinc
Just write it off as you were saving time. 
undone tartan
I also often forget to use it before Champions fight and sometimes enter that fight with less than 20 hp. Thank god I almost always use Acorn for Elysium
jaunty falcon
Every time I use acorn, I get Asterius. Every time I use tooth, I get butterfly ball.
undone tartan
I hate the feeling where a miniboss chamber is taking a second too long to load and I just say out-loud “It’s Asterius” and it always is
jaunty falcon
Tiny vermin
sand temple
Having to lose SD against butterfly ball does feel bad though
undone tartan
Stupid tiny vermin
I died to Tiny Vermin a little while ago on a seemingly promising 40 heat run (I think it was 40 heat)
jaunty falcon
Nobody likes tony vermin
undone tartan
Because the stupid rat attacked for like 60 for some reason 
jaunty falcon
I had tiny vermin during a 3 weps run on switch and I swear it took like 45s to kill
jaunty falcon
No I just had a level 3 flood flare and no mirage/scaling lmao
It was like an 11:58 igt
mossy zinc
I like the Tiny Vermin. It's a fun fight.
I also like solo Asterius over the Dire Soul Catcher. Sure, it's harder. But it's more fun.
undone tartan
I’ve gotten used to Asterius but I still prefer Soul Catcher, just for the sake of my run
Although Asterius is much more manageable with Divine Dash
You can dash into his shockwave after he lands and it won’t hit you
undone tartan
I’m having a lot of trouble with 40 heat Hestia
It just feels so slow, and it’s never doing enough damage to justify how slow it is
Am I playing the aspect wrong? I’m told it’s great at high heat but it feels really bad
waxen relic
It's just shoot + reload with a high percentage attack and if you care a Special / Cast on the reloads.
Oh, but dash out of your reloads
undone tartan
Yeah I do
undone tartan
I do both of those things
It doesn’t help that I’m forced into JS2
There are just so many enemies. Even if I 1-shot all of the them (which I often can’t, even in Asphodel), a lot of them will probably have armor. It’s like 70+ shots per room
And I can only shoot like every second and a half
solemn pulsar
JS2 isn’t super needed at 4 for hestia I feel, what is your pact?
undone tartan
That’s usually my pact
I could take HS over JS2 but I’m not very comfortable with HS
spice lava
Which god do you want on the atk for Hestia? If you use Artemis the dmg can feel very irregular
undone tartan
I always go for Aphrodite
Any weapon that doesn’t attack very quickly wants Aphrodite
glass blade
what duos do you want then?
undone tartan
I guess smoldering air?
Not everything is about duos
But yeah Smoldering Air is definitely a boon I’ll build into if I have Zeus or a good call
spice lava
If you feel that you don't understand the aspect, you probably should look at 50+ heat runs. Common Hestia pacts have JS2
That way you can see if you're doing something wrong
undone tartan
To think that my very first Hestia attempt timed out in Styx due to a 5-sack. Now I’ve done like 10 more attempts and haven’t reached Styx once 
honest kernel
I think you just need to get used to the weapon im chilling on js2 with this one
you can do ap instead bc hestia doesnt want much
honest kernel
TD2 is always an option if you time out
mossy zinc
You play the most mobile aspect in the game. Do HS.
JS is hard on Hestia if you're not experienced with it because your Attack is all single-target, so every additional enemy adds a lot of time.
undone tartan
Ok you make a good argument. I’ll switch to HS when I go back to Hestia
mossy zinc
A common mistake with Hestia I see is waiting for your Reload until like after your Attack hits. I guess that's intuitive. But you can reload immediately after pressing attack, it's practically one motion.
You just gotta be careful with the reverse. You can't buffer an attack during a reload, so if you want to attack on the first frame after your reload, you'd need a frame-perfect input.
Easy to mess that up, press too early, not get an attack at all, and then reload again.
undone tartan
A common mistake with Hestia I see is waiting for your Reload until like after y...
Yeah I practice against Skelly so I reload instantly
I’m not great at maneuvering to avoid attacks while getting nearly-perfect shots + reload though
spice lava
If you check Hestia's runs you can hear and see the rhythm people have when they use atk, dash, reload and special
Some runs also show the controller's inputs on screen
Your runs for an example nyaa if I remember
mossy zinc
Some of them, yeah.
Doesn't work with my DS4 for some reason.
Most of the maneuvering is just away from or in circles around enemies.
undone tartan
Ok wtf
I just got a backstab
With Fiery Presence
I have parting shot but I thought that only applied to my cast
I’m so confused
Wait
The backstab didn’t do any extra damage?
So it will say backstab but do normal damage?
That’s so weird
solemn pulsar
do you have exposed
undone tartan
No
jaunty falcon
Chaos backstab?
jaunty falcon
Black shawl?
hard gale
wait a minute you can’t get chaos backstab damage with fiery?????
sand temple
Chaos gives extra damage to undamaged foes with fiery instead
undone tartan
Black shawl? <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Nope
sand temple
It just matches your mirror
undone tartan
All I had was Parting Shot
spice lava
Yes, it's precised on the Codex if you check Chaos' boons
undone tartan
I have a video of it saying “backstab” but doing normal damage, but I don’t have my mirror or boons included in that video
But the fact that you can see it doing 304 normally and then 304 on a backstab is enough I think
Should I send the video?
I can’t rn but I can later if you guys want to see it
solemn pulsar
sure
it's probably a parting shot bug
where it makes backstabs register but not apply bonus damage or something
undone tartan
Yeah I think that’s what it is
mossy zinc
Nemesis Crest exists, too.
hard gale
what exactly signifies a backstab
just the action of hitting the opponent on the back
or is there some special number
thing
like bigger looking number
jaunty falcon
Think 200° was thrown about maybe? Not exactly sure
undone tartan
like bigger looking number
I mean, the game says “BACKSTAB!” if that’s what you’re talking about
thorny veldt
for FO1 and FO2 on arthur, athena attack is actually really nice, helps deal with thee flurry of attacks much better
flat flicker
facts
Athena attack Arthur is super based
it’s like you have a gigantic lightsaber
Throw in deadly reversal for good measure
undone tartan
Yeah but Aphrodite is better generally, just because Weak is so good and the damage is a lot better
Athena attack is fun though
I call it the baseball bat
thorny veldt
Throw in deadly reversal for good measure
Hell yeah
thorny veldt
Yeah but Aphrodite is better generally, just because Weak is so good and the dam...
I put Aphrodite for special since I’m starting all my encounters with a special in the middle of a pile of enemies regardless
undone tartan
Whatever works for you
thorny veldt
It’s just
flat flicker
i mean aphro hits harder, but if the thing that's causing michelle problems is FO2 and athena attack keeps her alive longer
in her case, Athena attack may be the way to go
thorny veldt
I’m still getting used to FO so a bit of leeway on my attack timing is very nice
quartz mantle
Weak is only a 30% damage reduction, but deflecting the attack is a 100% damage reduction
flat flicker
also i have a coworker named michelle with a cat named athena
thorny veldt
Awwwww
undone tartan
in her case, Athena attack may be the way to go
I’m still not sure it’s correct, but if they enjoy it or find it better, and it’s working, then I obviously say stick with it
quartz mantle
You could also use Demeter and make enemies slow so it's easier to avoid their attacks
And get killing Freeze
undone tartan
You could also use Demeter and make enemies slow so it's easier to avoid their a...
Yeah but you’d apply chill really slowly
quartz mantle
Always get Killing Freeze
flat flicker
I’m still not sure it’s correct, but if they enjoy it or find it better, and it’...
defense vs offense lol
thorny veldt
Weak is only a 30% damage reduction, but deflecting the attack is a 100% damage ...
Yeah that’s why I combo it with the special for a 70% damage reduction
undone tartan
defense vs offense lol
Weak is defense
quartz mantle
It turns off traps which is neat
flat flicker
Weak is defense
yep, but DR Athena arthur hits just as hard with a way tighter defense
flat flicker
true, with divine dash its not as necessary
divine dash aphro attack prob better than athena attack
thorny veldt
For which attack I go for of the 3 A’s it depends on which epic I find first
flat flicker
just take the keepsake and pick the attack first room that you want
undone tartan
Artemis attack is definitely not great for enemies
flat flicker
itll improve consistency
flat flicker
Artemis attack is definitely not great for enemies
aphro dash and heart rend, but without it, yeah lol
undone tartan
just take the keepsake and pick the attack first room that you want
Definitely this, yes
undone tartan
aphro dash and heart rend, but without it, yeah lol
Even with heart rend, your normal damage will be much lower even if your average is much higher. Good for bosses, terrible for normal rooms
thorny veldt
Artemis attack is definitely not great for enemies
Yeah I only go for artemis attack if I get unlucky with Aphrodite or Athena’s rolls for a good attack, and then I either go for deadly reversal or splitting headache to with pressure points to get my crit chance as high as I can, hunters mark helps keep damage up on normal enemies
quartz mantle
I’ve been starting Athena attack on Rama lately and it’s been performing pretty well
undone tartan
At what heat
quartz mantle
Having the extra safety from the deflect with Athena in your good pool from the stat helps a lot
45
Athena start into whatever I want for special (usually Demeter cause killing freeze lol) works pretty well
undone tartan
Interesting
quartz mantle
Rama doesn’t really need an optimal attack boon for damage
Just get triple shot lol
undone tartan
I’m not good enough with triple shot. I mean I’ll always take it if I can’t get twin, but all my wins are with twin
flat flicker
Killing freeze pretty based
flat flicker
I’m not good enough with triple shot. I mean I’ll always take it if I can’t get ...
Just play it like the normal bow and the other arrows are gravy
undone tartan
I definitely know that triple is amazing
undone tartan
Just play it like the normal bow and the other arrows are gravy
Nah that’s not correct
quartz mantle
Twin is pretty comfy, but Demeter on special makes triple quite comfy
flat flicker
I’m all for automating things lol
quartz mantle
You can definitely get some triple shotguns in on bosses
undone tartan
You can definitely get some triple shotguns in on bosses
Shouldn’t I exclusively go for that?
quartz mantle
Not always
flat flicker
Shouldn’t I exclusively go for that?
No, don’t overextend
if you’re clear to swing yes
quartz mantle
Chain shot actually messes up triple
flat flicker
wack
undone tartan
Wait how
quartz mantle
I took it here to try to summon the spirit of Tailesque but the anvil didn’t show
undone tartan
Does it mess up Twin?
quartz mantle
No, triple doesn’t get to pierce so you end up losing out on potential range
undone tartan
Ohhh
undone tartan
I don’t think it quite works the way you think it does
quartz mantle
Yea but hitting multiple people increases your shared suffering damage
undone tartan
Does it?
quartz mantle
I just know it’s wack and weird
Yea
Shared suffering makes people take damage whenever you deal damage to any enemy
undone tartan
So chain shot gives you up to 4+ times shared suffering damage?
flat flicker
Yeah
undone tartan
That seems utterly busted
quartz mantle
If they’re in range
flat flicker
That’s why I like it lol
quartz mantle
Also it sucks on bosses
undone tartan
Shared suffering makes people take damage whenever you deal damage to any enemy
But hitting two enemies with one attack (without chain) doesn’t deal 120% shared suffering, does it?
quartz mantle
It deals shared suffering for each hit
flat flicker
But hitting two enemies with one attack (without chain) doesn’t deal 120% shared...
it does snowball
undone tartan
No way
flat flicker
so if you have 4 enemies with all have shared suffering
let's make the math easy and say your rama shot does 100 damage
with shared suffering and chain shot, thatll be 100+60+60+60 = 280 on all four enemies
undone tartan
That doesn’t sound right but I’ll believe you. But imagine that instead of chain shot, you just line up 4 enemies and hit them all. Is it still 280?
quartz mantle
I know there’s some jank with chain shot that makes it stinky
flat flicker
That doesn’t sound right but I’ll believe you. But imagine that instead of chain...
it does, but chain will get them in a neat little row for you bascially automatically
undone tartan
I know there’s some jank with chain shot that makes it stinky
Even on Twin?
undone tartan
it does, but chain will get them in a neat little row for you bascially automati...
Are you sure it does?
quartz mantle
I’m pretty sure it’s mainly triple
flat flicker
with triple, it will also make the other arrows do more
since if they hit anything, theyll be redirected somehwere useful
undone tartan
I didn’t think you could get more than one trigger of shared suffering per attack per enemy
flat flicker
yeah, i mean chain shot lulz arent as useful against bosses
quartz mantle
its a bit weird but iirc if one arrow of triple hits the enemy first, the others cant identify that same enemy as a target
- someone smarter than I
eternal hare
I didn’t think you could get more than one trigger of shared suffering per attac...
nah every hit on every enemy will trigger shared suffering on everything that's got it up
eternal hare
chain shot isn't my ideal 2nd hammer but you can still put it to great use
undone tartan
nah every hit on every enemy will trigger shared suffering on everything that's ...
So if I line up 3 enemies and hit them all, everything with shared suffering will take 180% damage?
flat flicker
yep!
eternal hare
yes
flat flicker
and what chain shot does is basically remove the ability to line up a 4 enemy rama shot
and you can just shoot wherever and it'll act the same way
undone tartan
That just felt too strong, I thought it probably didn’t work like that
eternal hare
I mean you still have to understand how to position yourself to make the most of it
flat flicker
explosive shot with shared suffering has a similar result (i know its slow)
undone tartan
Sure. But that’s like… so much damage. Knowing that doesn’t really make me play differently
flat flicker
you recently did 40 no? try 45
undone tartan
EXPL
SIVE SHOT
flat flicker
youll need to play around with it
undone tartan
you recently did 40 no? try 45
I did 45
undone tartan
No 
quartz mantle
Explosive is just a dps loss
flat flicker
yeah, i know...but with chain shot its hilarious lol
quartz mantle
Not being able to powershot outweighs any damage increase it gives you
Chain explosive
Prime anvil material
undone tartan
I like my good builds
quartz mantle
Twin shot comfy
undone tartan
I’m sticking to twin
I should definitely learn Triple Shot though
I always take it if I don’t see Twin
But I’m bad with it
quartz mantle
I was definitely a part of the twin perfect gang but with Demeter special triple point blank is pretty comfy
eternal hare
learn it for when you do end up taking it yea
quartz mantle
Chill is comfy
sand temple
With FO I feel like most enemies end up in the point blank range anyway
Regardless of whether they were in range when you started
eternal hare
pointblank better with triple when you're less likely to be able to safety shotgun powershot
twin perfect still best general-purpose combo though
flat flicker
I like my good builds <:dusa:522248771409543188>
you wont always get the ideal hammer. my controller w paddles broke so im just doing 20-30ish with weird builds for no wlol
im so spoiled
jaunty falcon
Twin is so good
undone tartan
you wont always get the ideal hammer. my controller w paddles broke so im just d...
I won’t always get the ideal hammer, but I’ll always win with the ideal hammer
flat flicker
true, i mean i don't reset when i get a crap tartarus lol i try to make it work
mirage shot ice wine gilgamesh
OP
(it's not)
jaunty falcon
I personally would reset for twin/triple on Rama
flat flicker
twin is probably the best hammer
quartz mantle
Resetting weak
undone tartan
At 45 heat, I’ll usually reset if my first hammer isn’t twin or triple. But if I don’t, I’ll die before Asphodel anyway
mossy zinc
Rama doesn't need hammers.
jaunty falcon
It certainly helps
quartz mantle
Ok nyaanyaa
jaunty falcon
A lot
quartz mantle
Mrs “nothing needs anything just be good lol”
undone tartan
Rama doesn't need hammers.
Nyaa have you done 50 heat with no hammer Rama?
jaunty falcon
It's not like Hera
mossy zinc
Sure, but it's not needed.
undone tartan
Or even 45
mossy zinc
I haven't. Why would I when I can take a hammer?
quartz mantle
Rama has incredibly strong hammers
flat flicker
Mrs “nothing needs anything just be good lol”
tbf, this is most things in life
"have you tried getting good"
worked for me for smash
and in my career as a sales guy
undone tartan
Sure, but it's not needed.
I feel like when I’m playing at the highest heat I’ve ever played at, it’s kinda needed
quartz mantle
Alright guys since Rama doesn’t need hammers I’m gonna go do 60 heat now see ya bye
flat flicker
Alright guys since Rama doesn’t need hammers I’m gonna go do 60 heat now see ya ...
do 60 heat chain shot
be super based
mossy zinc
I daresay the hardest part of 45 Heat hammerless with Rama is dodging all the hammers.
quartz mantle
Tail got chain shot second hammer in his 60 heat run
jaunty falcon
Well, tailesque got to dad without twin/triple iirc
undone tartan
Well, tailesque got to dad without twin/triple iirc
At 60?
jaunty falcon
Yup
eternal hare
yeah pointblank-chain into the most legendary anvil
quartz mantle
The most iconic anvil of all time
jaunty falcon
Perfect point blank triple?
eternal hare
nah
quartz mantle
-chain
+triple
+relentless
flat flicker
i mean there's the tails and the nya's of the world who can win using a flight stick as a controller on 50 heat zag spear with ares attack
quartz mantle
With Zeus special
flat flicker
(having tried using a flight stick once: don't)
undone tartan
Relentless with Demeter special
jaunty falcon
Relentless with Dio special actually felt like it did a lot
flat flicker
nyaanyaa isn't in that group of people
i can't keep track lol i just know from nyaa to get gud and always take aphro
quartz mantle
Tail is just on another level
Being the first person to clear 60 heat unseeded for months before YKC came along and started tearing up the heat leaderboard
undone tartan
Speak of the devil
mossy zinc
Tailesque isn't #1 on the Women's High Heat Leaderboard. 
flat flicker
But can he see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch
flat flicker
thorny veldt
Wait is there actually a women’s high heat leaderboard
flat flicker
Wait is there actually a women’s high heat leaderboard
@mossy zinc
mossy zinc
High Heat Women's Leaderboard
- Lady Aphrodite | 32
- Nyaanyaa | 51
- Toffel | 50
thorny veldt
Wait
mossy zinc
I haven't been emotionally ready to play the mod yet. Lady Aphrodite herself said I might explode.
flat flicker
Is it publicly available I wanna try it lol
thorny veldt
Why is lady first if she’s only got 32
thorny veldt
I’m so confused
mossy zinc
Nyaa is a big time aphro fan like mod on the voice actress’s discord
m not a mod.
m high priestess of the Temple of Aphrodite and her apostle.
flat flicker
aphro tattoo when
thorny veldt
So you’re a simp
solemn pulsar
Is it publicly available I wanna try it lol
https://github.com/cgullsHadesMods/hades-OneGodOnly
needs ModUtil and ModImporter, if you're familiar with modding
flat flicker
oh word
mossy zinc
"Simp" is such a dumb word.
thorny veldt
That’s what a simp would say /s
solemn pulsar
ok despite appearances that will not remove Hermes/Hammers with the config
idk what i was thinking back then
what a dummy
flat flicker
ok despite appearances that will not remove Hermes/Hammers with the config
lol that's fine
i'd still play this for sure
flat flicker
That’s what a simp would say /s
we all simp for this game if we're talking on the high heat discord, nyaa is just more aggressive than most about her favorite parts of the game haha
solemn pulsar
You'll need ModUtil and modimporter.py, both available on nexusmods, and then their pages will have installation instructions.
mossy zinc
It's not aggression. It's true love.
quartz mantle
idk sounds like parasocial love to me
mossy zinc
Lady Aphrodite said she loves me.
flat flicker
No shame in simping
This month I’ve simped for Zelda in smash, chain shot Rama, and my excessive cat photos
@solemn pulsar cool to dm you if I need tech support later when I try to get this running?
mossy zinc
You should DM cgull for your tech support needs for anything, yes.
If your fridge isn't working right, DM cgull.
He'll figure out a mod for it and make it work.
flat flicker
I actually do need a fix for my drifting controller 😦
solemn pulsar
there's also a modding discord
flat flicker
switch power a
mossy zinc
It's linked in #self-promotion.
solemn pulsar
yeah you are
flat flicker
Im in like 50 discord’s, three of which get used
bronze rapids
my powerA drifted in the first 2 weeks or something dsfjlkdsf, I use it when I want to game while eating, to not get stuff on my switch pro controller
ripe ermine
Drunken Eris is super fun you guys
flat flicker
i should try it
undone tartan
Drunken Eris is super fun you guys
Drunken… dash? I don’t know if I could bring myself to do drunken strike when lightning strike exists
jaunty falcon
Drunken strike is really good
Especially with the eris buff
Sure, it isn't lightning strike
mossy zinc
It also doesn't need Static Discharge like Lightning Strike does.
flat flicker
mossy zinc
Not as good as Heartbreak Strike.
undone tartan
That’s actually false
mossy zinc
You know what's false?
mossy zinc
Rumors of your survival after saying that.
undone tartan
Rumors of your survival after saying that.
mossy zinc
It's great.
knotty sphinx
Aspect of Lucifer > eris imo on adamant rail on high hear
undone tartan
How high you talking here?
knotty sphinx
Although I struggled with both. Adamant rail wasn't my strongest weapon
For me 32 heat
hardy garden
eris rail is a lot better
flat flicker
I need flash fire to play Lucifer lol
undone tartan
I’ll tell you that objectively Eris is better
hardy garden
like 75% global damage buff is op
gaunt fiber
Lucy with triple bomb is easier
undone tartan
It (Eris boost) really is
mossy zinc
They're both really strong, anyway.
gaunt fiber
Not better but easier
mossy zinc
If all you care for is the win, then easier is better.
hardy garden
like with lucifer you can just pop down your special and just run around and slowly watch things die from the funny orbs? is that how it works?
knotty sphinx
Yeah I'm not sure one is better than the other
undone tartan
If all you care for is the win, then easier is better.
Depends on your skill level ig
gaunt fiber
Nah you make them explode
knotty sphinx
like with lucifer you can just pop down your special and just run around and slo...
You can also make the bombs explode for damage yes
undone tartan
Yeah I'm not sure one is better than the other
Well Eris is faster and has a higher heat record…
gaunt fiber
With heartbreak flourish for example you'll have a ton of damage
hardy garden
but like zeus eris rail 
gaunt fiber
You could go deadly too but HM is meh so I'd take the consistency of Aphrodite
knotty sphinx
Well Eris is faster and has a higher heat record…
I can see it being faster if you have tight deadline cranked up yeah
gaunt fiber
Yes Eris is stronger and can climb higher
hardy garden
can lucifer even get cluster 
mossy zinc
No.
gaunt fiber
But at similar heat you can clear easily
undone tartan
I can see it being faster if you have tight deadline cranked up yeah
No the DPS is way better as well
knotty sphinx
It's going to have more damage potential mathematically than Lucifer so it makes sense
It's just straight raw bonus damage
undone tartan
Its also safer
knotty sphinx
Eris is safer? No?
undone tartan
Yes
knotty sphinx
Howso
undone tartan
First of all, Delta Chamber exists
Also, if you can kill everything 3x faster, they have 3x less time to hit you
hardy garden
well killing everything super quickly helps and not being as reliant on rng since eris works with most stuff
undone tartan
Also, you start attacking faster and can start moving faster after releasing attack, making it much easier to avoid attacks
Also, you kinda have to keep attacking the same enemy and get that ramp damage to actually kill bosses with Lucifer, meaning you often can’t afford to release the button to avoid attacks as often
And your dashes don’t have i-frames while you’re attacking IIRC
mossy zinc
If we're talking about 32 Heat potential, fact of the matter is that good players will clear that 100% of the time if they're playing serious, with either aspect, so the only remaining factors really would be top clearing speed, average clearing speed, chance to get a clearing speed near the top end, etc.
knotty sphinx
Don't rely on the damage ramping up
Gonna have a bad time relying on that on high heat
undone tartan
Don't rely on the damage ramping up
Then your damage will be awful
Which I guess it is either way
knotty sphinx
Just need the right hammers
undone tartan
You really need special damage
Since your attack is so bad without ramp and even with ramp it’s not amazing
knotty sphinx
Since your attack is so bad without ramp and even with ramp it’s not amazing
Adamant rail attack was pretty rough across the board on anything not zues or Dionysus
knotty sphinx
You go Dionysus on adamant rail.
undone tartan
I do not
mossy zinc
If we're talking about ease of winning 32 with either aspect at lower skill levels, then skills can vary so much that experience and understanding of the aspects probably matters most, so it varies from player to player. I don't think that either aspect is so much stronger than the other that somebody who has experience mainly with Lucifer would immediately do better if they switched to Eris nor vice versa.
knotty sphinx
Zues works too but you nearly instantly get 5 stacks
undone tartan
Zeus is certainly better than Dio, but Dio can be good ig
knotty sphinx
If we're talking about ease of winning 32 with either aspect at lower skill leve...
Agree.
knotty sphinx
Zeus is certainly better than Dio, but Dio can be good ig
Dionysus seemed op on adamant rail attack imo
undone tartan
There’s no world where any heat or speedrun prefers Dio over Zeus
undone tartan
Dionysus seemed op on adamant rail attack imo
It’s not
knotty sphinx
5 stacks immediately removes shields and gets dps going fast as crap
Was just my experience
undone tartan
I am confident that Zeus is better in every situation
Dio can work if you’re using shackle with AP2. But also, Zeus is so good that you might just want to start with Thunder Signet and reset for lightning strike
knotty sphinx
I am confident that Zeus is better in every situation
I'm confident this game is so balanced that both are viable
undone tartan
Ok but at the peak of competition (speedruns or high heat), Zeus always beats Dio
knotty sphinx
I feel like with zues you need 2 or 3 boons to get food damage out of it later on
eternal hare
lightning strike on its own is bad
knotty sphinx
Whereas dio just gets 5 stacks going so fast
knotty sphinx
Ok but at the peak of competition (speedruns or high heat), Zeus always beats Di...
We are considering 32 heat high heat right
undone tartan
Not really
knotty sphinx
Because I wasn't able to clear it with zues but did dio
undone tartan
Not in this context
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike start wins in DPS on Eris and Lucifer at 32 and anything below that. There's a reason that was the #1 speedrun build for most of Hades's life since release.
undone tartan
Because I wasn't able to clear it with zues but did dio
Wait you did Dio on Lucifer?
wintry berry
At 32 heat, you can consistently get those 2-3 Zeus boons
eternal hare
yeah it becomes much better with static discharge
knotty sphinx
Wait you did Dio on Lucifer?
it's been a while but IIRC it was dio attack on Lucifer with other boons. May have been the only dio boon
undone tartan
At extremely high heat, do they use Drunken Strike?
undone tartan
it's been a while but IIRC it was dio attack on Lucifer with other boons. May ha...
Dio on Lucifer sounds really bad
Or at least compared to Zeus
mossy zinc
Retrash seeded for Drunken Strike start with Eris at 60, yes.
eternal hare
At extremely high heat, do they use Drunken Strike?
when you get to the point where you can't rely on getting more than a single boon in the right slot, it's much more consistently winnable with drunken strike yes
undone tartan
Retrash seeded for Drunken Strike start with Eris at 60, yes.
Alright fair enough
I guess that makes sense
mossy zinc
You just start Drunken Strike and put poms on it, hopefully.
undone tartan
Because I wasn't able to clear it with zues but did dio
That’s extremely anecdotal
undone tartan
Retrash seeded for Drunken Strike start with Eris at 60, yes.
Wait, why seed for it when you could just reset a few times for it and then you get to say your run was unseeded?
knotty sphinx
Or at least compared to Zeus
You seem to think everything is bad compared to zues
undone tartan
It is
mossy zinc
¯_(ツ)_/¯
undone tartan
That doesn’t make a lot of sense
undone tartan
You seem to think everything is bad compared to zues
Assuming you don’t have AP2 at least
mossy zinc
If there's extremely anecdotal, is there nominally anecdotal?
knotty sphinx
What does approval process have to do with anything
undone tartan
Because you need jolted
mossy zinc
ocaml ocaml — Today at 8:19 PM
when you get to the point where you can't rely on getting more than a single boon in the right slot, it's much more consistently winnable with drunken strike yes
undone tartan
What does approval process have to do with anything
Didn’t we just talk about this?
mossy zinc
Is Drunken Strike at 32 doable? Perfectly. Is it better DPS than Lightning Strike start? No.
undone tartan
Exactly
hardy garden
also zeus attack means you can get aphrodite special and get smouldering air
undone tartan
Is Drunken Strike at 32 doable? Perfectly. Is it better DPS than Lightning Strik...
@knotty sphinx here’s your answer btw
Is Drunken Strike better for high heat Lucifer? I feel like that’s… kinda bad
mossy zinc
Only time I'd recommend Drunken Strike start on either rail is if they insist on starting with the Overflowing Cup or are doing AP2.
undone tartan
Also, as I always say, me saying something is worse doesn’t mean I think people shouldn’t do it. It just means that you shouldn’t do it if you want to be optimal. If you don’t care about that, then it doesn’t matter what’s “good”
mossy zinc
In UnholyPancake's world, only optimal and bad exist.
waxen relic
If they insist MomPom is best keepsake it's worth talking about i think.
undone tartan
In UnholyPancake's world, only optimal and bad exist.
I didn’t say that
hardy garden
instantly 5 stacking hangover does kinda sound like a lot of attacks are wasted tbh
mossy zinc
I didn’t say that <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
I did.
undone tartan
If they insist MomPom is best keepsake it's worth talking about i think.
Wym
undone tartan
instantly 5 stacking hangover does kinda sound like a lot of attacks are wasted ...
Exactly
knotty sphinx
instantly 5 stacking hangover does kinda sound like a lot of attacks are wasted ...
Fair point
mossy zinc
They're not wasted if you only attack 5 times and then watch them slowly suffer and die.
waxen relic
If you start MomPom getting DioAttack might be more worthwhile than Zeus.
mossy zinc
That sounds like fun.
knotty sphinx
Went back and caught what you meant about ap2. Also fair point
hardy garden
well lucifer kinda has the wind up to begin with unless you get that one hammer which does help
undone tartan
Yeah that wind up is part of why I said it’s a lot less safe than Eris
solar maple
lucifer heat wr is with frost strike, maybe that's the way to go
knotty sphinx
Spam special on Lucifer and use attack to stack dio
undone tartan
lucifer heat wr is with frost strike, maybe that's the way to go <:thanthink:669...
That actually makes sense!
But what heat was it
undone tartan
Oh wow. Lucifer is bad 
wintry berry
I did 53 heat Lucy with lightning
mossy zinc
Lucifer doesn't just "kinda" have the windup. It has the windup.
wintry berry
just that nobody grinded Lucifer
solar maple
didn't submit to the spreadsheet 
undone tartan
I did 53 heat Lucy with lightning
AP1?
mossy zinc
didn't submit to the spreadsheet <:residentzag:580097451197857816>
Who didn't? Name names. 🔫
undone tartan
Ah ok
solar maple
yeah triple bomb is the real way to scale your damage on lucifer
undone tartan
Yeah
knotty sphinx
Triple bomb op
knotty sphinx
Is there a central place where high heat runs are posted?
mossy zinc
The leaderboard is pinned.
knotty sphinx
Do people use tight deadline at like 40 heat?
mossy zinc
Yeah.
knotty sphinx
The leaderboard is pinned.
Oh sorry my bad
knotty sphinx
Thought so
undone tartan
Do people use tight deadline at like 40 heat?
TD2 means that you have to make up that 3 heat somewhere else. Which gets increasingly brutal the higher you go.
knotty sphinx
Where's the leaderboard? Discord says nothing is pinned here
solar maple
no retrash did submit
knotty sphinx
TD2 means that you have to make up that 3 heat somewhere else. Which gets increa...
Yea
undone tartan
Where's the leaderboard? Discord says nothing is pinned here
Discord glitching
solar maple
nephi didn't
knotty sphinx
Discord glitching
Ok thanks
spice lava
SRC leaderboards has some of the runs, the pinned spreadsheet has some as well but some runs just don't appear on both of them
mossy zinc
@wintry berry submit your runs. 🔫
knotty sphinx
Yeah discord is bugging out. Can't open it
mossy zinc
The High Heat Leaderboard has the most comprehensive collection of recorded high heat runs.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing
knotty sphinx
Tapping it but discord won't open it lol
sand temple
Can you copy the link and paste it into a browser?
flat flicker
Check your disc setting or cut and paste into browser
mossy zinc
Thanking the guys when the girl posted the link.
knotty sphinx
Thanking the guys when the girl posted the link. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Thanks ma'am
Aerith owns btw. What is seeded vs unseeded?
undone tartan
I say “guys”but for me it’s gender neutral. Unfortunately that word is sometimes viewed as gender-specific though
sand temple
Seeded means that they have knowledge of the run beforehand
mossy zinc
Mainly because it's not gender-neutral.
sand temple
Usually just the first chamber
spice lava
Seeded has 2 faces nowadays
knotty sphinx
I see
flat flicker
Aerith owns btw. What is seeded vs unseeded?
Seeded means you have control of how your run starts
undone tartan
Seeded means, at its core, that you used “Give up”, and didn’t die on your last run
sand temple
If the run is routed it means the entire run is planned out
knotty sphinx
ohhh right because it's at least semi predictable
undone tartan
Mainly because it's not gender-neutral. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Well the way I use it is gender neutral, but I understand that some people don’t see the word that way
thorny veldt
made it to hades for the first time on 32 heat! thats awesome progress for me
spice lava
- using a mod to seed the first boon or hammer
- spending your time with practice pause and give up until you know the seed globally
undone tartan
ohhh right because it's at least semi predictable
You can RNG manipulate
thorny veldt
beforehand i had never made it past theseus
undone tartan
made it to hades for the first time on 32 heat! thats awesome progress for me
Congrats! What aspect are you running?
thorny veldt
arthur
thorny veldt
youre good
mossy zinc
For the purposes of the leaderboard, any run that doesn't have proof that the run uses a random seed (by showing the previous death in the video) is considered seeded.
undone tartan
Well good luck
undone tartan
For the purposes of the leaderboard, any run that doesn't have proof that the ru...
Makes sense
knotty sphinx
For the purposes of the leaderboard, any run that doesn't have proof that the ru...
Indeed it does make sense. Hm.
undone tartan
You guys want to hear a really sad story from another server today that kinda ties into that?
mossy zinc
No.
thorny veldt
i died to hades
god
i really need breaching slash to deal with the mini bosses he spawns
mossy zinc
But I guess you're only asking the guys and don't care for my opinion. 
undone tartan
Yarn, one of the best HK players, did every single boss hitless back to back. But she recorded it on her PS4, and since she got a notification, the recording bugged and there was a cut in the video 
flat flicker
knotty sphinx
Do any high heat runs use extreme measures hades?
mossy zinc
Yeah.
waxen relic
Nobody notices a "No" to a rhetorical question. 
undone tartan
Yarn, one of the best HK players, did every single boss hitless back to back. Bu...
She’s already done P5 hitless (no cut in that video) so she’s obviously capable. We know it’s not spliced, but unfortunately it can’t be proven
undone tartan
Nobody notices a "No" to a rhetorical question. <:shadeeyeroll:52044830266412238...
I wanted to tell the story
mossy zinc
She’s already done P5 hitless (no cut in that video) so she’s obviously capable....
#video-games is that way.
undone tartan
that’s all I had to say
knotty sphinx
More towards 50+ actually.
With tight deadline?
undone tartan
<#725022285504708739> is that way. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Nyaa is brutal today damn
waxen relic
With tight deadline?
Yes.
undone tartan
You can’t really do TD2 above 50. It’s just a stupid idea tbh
waxen relic
But it does need more timesave than normal hades. Well observed.
mossy zinc
There were plenty of TD2 runs at 50+ early on, but most have switched to TD3 now.
waxen relic
You can’t really do TD2 above 50. It’s just a stupid idea tbh
And from which abundance of 50+ Heat experience did that statement come from?
knotty sphinx
But it does need more timesave than normal hades. Well observed.
Well that's why I'm asking. Normal hades to EM hades is a time sink
undone tartan
And from which abundance of 50+ Heat experience did that statement come from?
Fair point
But like
You’d rather do RI2?
And EM4
waxen relic
You’d rather do RI2?
...
thorny veldt
how doable is 63 heat
sand temple
Not very
hardy garden
not doable
mossy zinc
Unseeded WR is 61 Heat.
waxen relic
Very dieable.
safe merlin
i can only do 16 heat
thorny veldt
ah so a challenge i see
knotty sphinx
I was gonna say is 60 even doable
undone tartan
how doable is 63 heat
64 has been done routed
mossy zinc
Why not just go for 64 at that point.
sand temple
If you can do 63 then you may as well for 64
thorny veldt
isnt 63 the max
waxen relic
Nah Hl4 is gonna save you for sure.
solar maple
there are quite a few TD2 50+ heat runs
mossy zinc
63 is max in normal mode, 64 in hell mode.
flat flicker
64 on hell mode
hardy garden
though routed makes ap2 and things not do anything right
solar maple
people like it for some aspects, though I will say I hate td2 runs
sand temple
If you have to the entire thing almost nohit then you really don't care about iframes
thorny veldt
63 is max in normal mode, 64 in hell mode.
oh right
mossy zinc
though routed makes ap2 and things not do anything right
Not exactly. It's still a lot easier to route without AP, but you can get AP2 runs routed that you'd virtually never get on an unseeded AP2 run.
waxen relic
If you have to the entire thing almost nohit then you really don't care about if...
And how do you do no-hit without i-frames?
mossy zinc
And how do you do no-hit without i-frames?
Have you tried using a mod that removes your enemies' hitboxes?
undone tartan
Has anyone done dashless runs?
mossy zinc
Yeah.
sand temple
Well the iframes after taking damage
Personal liability removing dash iframes would be cruel
waxen relic
Have you tried using a mod that removes your enemies' hitboxes?
I've considered trying to reverse Pact options to sth like HL-5.
clever otter
i thought you meant all at once, and kill enemies with sheer force of will
solar maple
all at once yeah
undone tartan
Haelian ofc
undone tartan
i thought you meant all at once, and kill enemies with sheer force of will
Me too
solar maple
no I did mean that
clever otter
thats really interesting actually, i thought a build like that would take a while and a lot of luck to get going
solar maple
yeah it does, it took a few tries
and it's pretty unlikely you get a boon in chamber 1 that actually does anything
so you have to reset a bunch for chamber 1
clever otter
did you ever record it?
solar maple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWGh2qBImvo&t=80s it's really scuffed the bottom right corner is covered from being in the wrong obs scene but yeah
you technically don't need calls or summons to beat the game either, but I allowed it just because it made getting out of tartarus way more common, and I think still fits with the pacifist theme
zag still isn't attacking anything, just asking for help
undone tartan
What call do you use? Zeus?
solar maple
yeah zeus
undone tartan
Is there any situation where you have HL5 and tooth is better than Acorn?
solar maple
some people like tooth more than acorn vs em4
undone tartan
Oh because ads
solar maple
because of the adds hitting you for very small amounts yeah
undone tartan
That makes sense
solar maple
I make stupid mistakes and tank a random spear throw at the start of the fight too much so I usually go acorn anyway lol
undone tartan
How good is flurry shot?
clever otter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWGh2qBImvo&t=80s it's really scuffed the bottom...
this is really impressive, i also like the perfect clear at the end because of touch of styx dark and last stand even though you had no dds left. thats always funny when that happens haha
undone tartan
Also, another question, do rockets with cluster rocket do 30% less from cluster bomb or is that bugged?
flat flicker
Based!
honest kernel
ppl keep sayin like "nah priv status is fine" then you keep getting scammed out of the atk that procs your second status by ap and uc
at least the visual effect is cool
jaunty falcon
Clink clink
solemn pulsar
pssh psh
flat flicker
Privileged status requires too many brain cells
flat flicker
Depends on the loadout
Like I don’t want rupture over breaking wave
Jolted, sure
Weak, sure
undone tartan
PStatus is so insanely overrated
flat flicker
Basically I use it when starting Dionysus or aphro lol
undone tartan
If you go on the subreddit, every person is talking about every build like “ok but how are you gonna activate PStatus”
honest kernel
I did chiron but I kept getting memed out of my weak atk 😔
50 chiron sure is somethin
flat flicker
If you go on the subreddit, every person is talking about every build like “ok b...
I just don’t wanna deal with it lol
undone tartan
PStatus is occasionally good. But it’s not good enough to take for literally every build (or even for all but a few select builds). People on the sub need to chill out
They act like it’s 80% extra damage
Like they literally will prioritize it over getting a decent build
It’s weird
jaunty falcon
If only it was +80% damage but 3 statuses
honest kernel
I mean reddit is bound to be a meme
flat flicker
Rather use em not spending the entire game thinking im not doing right by p stats
undone tartan
Limited brain cells
Nah it’s literally better to have it off
honest kernel
nah its ok I picked mistral dash for ideal ps distribution
jaunty falcon
I took mistral dash in my Rama 40 earlier
Twas very good but only when I had epic RD and epic KF
flat flicker
nah its ok I picked mistral dash for ideal ps distribution
I’d miss Poseidon or Athena too much
quartz mantle
If you go on the subreddit, every person is talking about every build like “ok b...
if you go on the subreddit
Well there’s your first mistake
undone tartan
Very true
Before discord, I used to use Reddit to talk about games
Like an idiot
ripe ermine
Mistral is ok with DC on melee. Dash dash pop pop hearts are gone.
shy plinth
Mistral Gilga OP
sand temple
If I am looking to do 50 heat should I be learning em4 or is it better to just take the build limiting pacts and grind out good rng?
spice lava
Both require patience and practice so It's up to you imo
But very few people feel comfortable with EM4
ripe ermine
EM4 also means you gotta really book it, since it’s a long fight.
I’ve found better success with AP2 and not EM4, but they’re all different kinds of horrible
sand temple
no matter what I take at this point I am going to be increasing the time pressure to get to 50
spice lava
Did you find which aspect you wanna use for your first 50 heat?
sand temple
and even with AP2 I would still be 1 heat short
going to go with rama because that is what I have been using so far
spice lava
You probably can afford AP1 with 50 Rama is you put on the pacts things like DC2 JS3
sand temple
I already had AP1 for 45
eternal hare
you can get to 50 two ways from that
RI2 or EM4
and then JS as needed (which if you're on hellmode should be nothing extra)
sand temple
it is either EM4, RI2 or AP2 + CP1
not on hellmode and don't really feel like getting a profile for that set up
eternal hare
tbh EM3 RI0 AP2 is pretty comfy if you don't mind resetting a little bit for at least a sufficient attack boon + first hammer
they're all pretty solid options tbh
undone tartan
Did you find which aspect you wanna use for your first 50 heat?
I’m also thinking about 50 heat, and I will be using Rama
eternal hare
go EM4 if you think you can try to get a busted enough build to shred superdad
go RI2 if you're confident in your early game with limited supplies, since you can get by with a single attack boon and a single solid hammer for most of the game
go AP2 if you still want health+boons in general and aren't as confident with the early game (although getting a desirable hammer can be v annoying here)
undone tartan
Those all sound so bad, I might just stay away from that for a while
flat flicker
Rama crystal beam is the way to go
eternal hare
it's not as bad as you think 😄 I walk into lernie with 65 max hp and think "this is fine"
sand temple
the lava does more damage than lernie does
eternal hare
rama also does a great job of dealing with lernie overall so it's not super bad
undone tartan
it's not as bad as you think 😄 I walk into lernie with 65 max hp and think "thi...
and then it’s blue lernie
eternal hare
at least you know in that case that the mini heads won't also be blue
undone tartan
Still
The mini heads don’t have to be blue because the main head will summon shockwaves for them
eternal hare
you can afford to be a little patient to dodge stuff
undone tartan
Where would you say Rama struggles the most? For me it feels like Elysium is pretty rough. Many enemies are too fast for me to get a power shot off, or even a partly charged attack. Chariots are a nightmare, many enemies are very hard to avoid
flat flicker
Elysium, tho splash dash with rupture counters chariots nicely if you can swing that
Or pray for the item
eternal hare
I'd say regular elysium encounters and satyrs in styx (lol)
undone tartan
I don’t take splash dash because I prefer divine dash
eternal hare
if you walk into a bunch of strongbows you're just going to accept never getting a powershot off
undone tartan
I’ve never died to Styx satyrs
undone tartan
if you walk into a bunch of strongbows you're just going to accept never getting...
Yeah
eternal hare
they're not hard, just annoying more than anything because you have to bait out their spit before you can even get a powershot
from a speed perspective rama is probably one of the worst at dealing with styx quickly
undone tartan
Luckily, it’s great at dealing with Hades quickly
eternal hare
answer also varies significantly based on your hammers
elysium becomes much more consistent with twin shot
flat flicker
I don’t take splash dash because I prefer divine dash
Here’s one approach for Rama: get athena dash, arty attack, deadly reversal, then purge arty attack for aphro
undone tartan
Mmm no thanks
eternal hare
if you've got triple then shotgunning things safely is very much not a guarantee
undone tartan
That requires way too much to go my way
flat flicker
Eh i mean I may be the best meme beam Rama player in the world this week
undone tartan
if you've got triple then shotgunning things safely is very much not a guarantee
I’m not very good with triple so most of the time I get to Elysium it’s with Twin
flat flicker
It can happen
undone tartan
With AP1?
flat flicker
Oh fair point
hardy garden
just be luckier
thorny veldt
im finally getting comfortably through tartarus on 32 even with bad rng
the lava in asphodel is the main thing holding me back and elysium and styx are just plain hard
knotty sphinx
Is there a general consensus for 40 heat pact on the bow? What is the heat build? Links?
ripe ermine
the lava in asphodel is the main thing holding me back and elysium and styx are ...
Are you using HS? That ones brutal if so. If you’re running Arthur tho (I think that’s what you were using?) the special aura disables trap damage
ripe ermine
Is there a general consensus for 40 heat pact on the bow? What is the heat build...
Which aspect? There’s some flexibility on 40 but you’ll probably have to take EM3, FO2, and the non-Rama bows don’t love DC
knotty sphinx
At this point it's time to accept whatever the most effective builds are. I think
thorny veldt
Are you using HS? That ones brutal if so. If you’re running Arthur tho (I think ...
REALLY?????????
IT NEGATES TRAP DAMAGE?
left prism
it disables them, yeah
solemn pulsar
Y’all gotta read the descriptions
ripe ermine
Yes you can just walk on lava. Enjoy your next Lernie fight
shy plinth
Though it is worth noting that it is ideal to not walk on lava
knotty sphinx
I didn't know that and I played the crap out of Arthur
thorny veldt
SCREW IDEAL
shy plinth
At this point it's time to accept whatever the most effective builds are. I thin...
I think most of the advice you will get will point you towards Rama
knotty sphinx
I think most of the advice you will get will point you towards Rama
I see
shy plinth
Something like this should work
Customize to taste of course, you could go more JS on Rama if you're comfortable with it to avoid CF
ripe ermine
Rama doesn’t care about DC and mostly doesn’t care about JS and can get by with not a lot of boons so yeah, Rama. Tho you can run any of them at 40
shy plinth
The general advice with Rama is "do whatever Tailesque would do"
knotty sphinx
Thanks for all the info guys. Appreciate it. The pic especially
shy plinth
The pinned spreadsheet for high heat has a ton of info too
Tailesque is one of the best players in the game and he specializes in Rama
knotty sphinx
Low convenience fee? Interesting
shy plinth
His vods are really enlightening
I prefer CF0 tbh
Buying boons is so good
Like you get to go into shops and leave with a boon AND a pom for 250g
Feels like cheating
knotty sphinx
Lmao yeah I'm used to a single boon costing 240
knotty sphinx
Because other mods are hard too at high heat
knotty sphinx
Forced overtime was so hard for me
shy plinth
It's a huge adjustment but if you're gonna push 40 you have to make it
shy plinth
There are differing opinions on CF but generally this channel will tell you that playing with cf0 is super addictive
And more boons is often better than getting hit harder when at 40 heat you really need to work on just not getting hit period
undone tartan
I usually take CF2 but when I can take DC2 then I take CF1 (at 40 heat)
thorny veldt
im scared of 40 when i get there FO1 is already a huge adjustment FO2 scares me
left prism
use chill
knotty sphinx
And more boons is often better than getting hit harder when at 40 heat you reall...
This logic makes sense.
shy plinth
Turn FO2 on and don't turn it off
Just rip the bandaid off
You'll die for a week straight and then it will feel normal
knotty sphinx
You'll die for a week straight and then it will feel normal
LOL. You sound a lot like me
shy plinth
Lots of us in this channel have had similar journeys 🙂
knotty sphinx
Dying for a week straight to make the adjustment is fun
shy plinth
Congrats on 32x6 btw
knotty sphinx
Hey thanks man appreciate that
shy plinth
Gonna go for 32x24?
thorny veldt
also ill probably have to do DC with arthur which is not so nice, but if i have something like lightning dash it should be manageable, that means no athena dash tho so ill have to get rid of that crutch
knotty sphinx
Gonna go for 32x24?
Dunno about that lol
shy plinth
I found 32x24 made me appreciate the game a little more since there were so many weapons that I just skipped using
It did not make me appreciate zag sword
knotty sphinx
You actually completed 32x24? Damn
shy plinth
Yeah
thorny veldt
You'll die for a week straight and then it will feel normal
yeah, thanks for the advice, im gonna turn off 32 and do HL5 EM4 FO2 and nothing else just to help myself adjust
shy plinth
EM4???