Which is still nuts
#h1-high-heat-strategies
undone tartan
undone tartan
Ah good point
I didn’t check routed
Routed 64 is absolutely nuts insane idc if it’s routed, that’s incredibly impressive
I totally forgot about that tbh
unique zephyr
I started with Hestia for 32 heat
it's a very safe weapon, you do need to get the reload pattern down and I'd recommend rebinding reload to somewhere better like a left bumper if you haven't already
mossy zinc
61 was done with Beowulf.
Could have just as well been Baj with Zeus or Tailesque with Rama.
undone tartan
Was it? Oh, it’s not on the heat leaderboard
mossy zinc
Oh my bad, I had the wrong sheet open. Beowulf is ykc's most played aspect, but yeah 61 was Zeus.
Doesn't mean Zeus is the best, though.
That could just as well been Rama or Beowulf.
Zeus is just the aspect the probably only two people trying 61 Heat were using.
undone tartan
Fair
mossy zinc
Retrash also did 60 with Eris seeded for epic Drunken Strike.
elfin rock
is eris nicer with drunken strike or zeus attack??
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike needs Static Discharge for boss damage.
So Drunken Strike is more consistent with AP2.
Just generally safer for a hit-and-run playstyle.
solemn pulsar
61 heat has an RI3 requirement, which is kind of a hard block for Rama and Beowulf though
I’d say that requirement alone puts Zeus above them in terms of viability at that level
jaunty falcon
I get Beowulf, but why Rama?
solemn pulsar
Single dash
waxen relic
em4 with that
jaunty falcon
Yep, just checked lol
solemn pulsar
Tailesque has said that the second dash is a non starter for rama
Would basically be greatest reflex resets on AP2
jaunty falcon
While also getting everything else, no thanks
mossy zinc
Probably yeah.
quartz mantle
The one seeded vid we have of 61 heat Rama gets greatest reflexes
mossy zinc
Although.
elfin rock
eris with drunken strike was actually really fun
i got cluster bombs and targeting system
mossy zinc
Just get Heartbreak Flourish, Heroic Swift Flourish, and Unhealthy Fixation.
elfin rock
for rama or for eris?
waxen relic
For rama probably since it's flourish.
flat flicker
Heartbreak flourish on Rama sounds like a waste
Heart rend, it’s not a complete waste. Suboptimal but still stronk
next wyvern
is it recommended to go into Chaos gate in high heat?
quartz mantle
Every time yes
free room + potentially huge buffs
Just avoid certain curses like Roiling or Slippery on cast weapons
Also the hp loss doesn't matter with Stubborn Defiance
next wyvern
k
waxen relic
Avoid more foes like a plague tbh. And with AP2 think twice.
fair briar
bro i been playing with more foes hold up
gaunt fiber
it's inevitable as you raise heat, we're talking about chaos curses
imagine having +73% foes on top of jury summons
that's a nope
steel widget
Choked 2 Styx runs today, but closing in on the 40 heat run woooh
gaunt fiber
Nice!
nocturne stag
imagine having +73% foes on top of jury summons
I've done that, it was...okay. Granted, I got the increase in early Tartarus, so it's not the strongest of enemies
quartz mantle
Yea it can really mess with your timer
that's like the main reason
and in Elysium it can just kill you
old oxide
whats the best configuration for 32 heat em3 and with hell mode, im kinda struggling with this run
flat flicker
whats the best configuration for 32 heat em3 and with hell mode, im kinda strugg...
check the pins
old oxide
oh didnt see that thanks
undone tartan
What aspect has the lowest heat record for it?
wintry berry
Talos and Zag Rail at 51 Heat
next acorn
talos 
flat flicker
Poseidon talos special
force choke fools
I don’t actually know if it works that way
next acorn
COD engulfing vortex blade dash talos :D
mossy zinc
for rama or for eris?
Rama to perma-charm everything. 
elfin rock
sounds scary
i tried to do a pierced butterfly run today
with arthur
and only managed to get +7.5% damage
mossy zinc
Lol
mossy zinc
That's the aspect.
elfin rock
naah i get hit pretty often regardless of what aspect im using
idrk how to fix it tho
mossy zinc
Practice.
elfin rock
are there certain pacts that i can take that'll force me to dodge more things
like how (i think it is) HS forces you to be careful around traps
mossy zinc
HL5.
elfin rock
o
when using HL5 is it wise to take FO2 as well
to keep the practice ive got from FO2
autumn ginkgo
Just got melted by hades pots on em4, is it worth turning HS off an replacing it with another rank of HL or something?
Also is there anything else I should switch up with the pact?
(except for em4, i'm keeping that)
undone tartan
I always always take CF over HS, but that’s just me
Also, Beowulf can handle Jury Summons pretty well in my experience, assuming that the timer isn’t a big issue for you
solar maple
I would definitely take HL5 before HS
undone tartan
Yeah me too
I have yet to reach a level of heat where I felt that HS was necessary. Rn my PB is 40 with two aspects
autumn ginkgo
Of the past 5/6 runs i got past asphodel, ive died to timer like 3 times
or gotten panicky because of timer and died
So i probably won't put on JS
solar maple
then yeah probably just this but swap HS for HL5
these sorts of pacts can be very fun
you get to be hugely powerful
autumn ginkgo
Yeah, i see that now
solar maple
just in general I think more than 5% of the damage I take is to traps
so HS does more damage to me than each point of HL
autumn ginkgo
The worst part is i sold an epic sure footing going into elysium because i thought "nah, im good for traps now, I won't get hit"
mossy zinc
Dumb as in dumb how unfair the damage is when you often just literally can't avoid the urns through no fault of your own.
autumn ginkgo
What should my general loadout / ideal build be? Currently i'm going eternal rose for aphro cast, arrowhead for attack or owl pendent for dash and dds, owl pendent or acorn, acorn.
almost always taking chaos gates and taking cast damage
also just taking any other got who shows up
going for mirage seems pretty risky and not very likely to happen so i havent been pushing it
mossy zinc
What aspect?
mossy zinc
Oh right.
autumn ginkgo
Yeah its beo
autumn ginkgo
i just remember doing beo on 32 and getting mirage like 1/10 attempts
mossy zinc
I'd love for them to fix the aspect, but I guess that's not gonna happen.
left prism
As heretic it sounds, maybe use poseidon for easier access to it 
mossy zinc
Are you running Gods' Legacy?
left prism
forgive me nyaanyaa
mossy zinc
No.
left prism
solar maple
if you can't get mirage, snow burst (+killing freeze) is also very good
mossy zinc
solar maple
that was my consistent build for when I was trying to streak with beo
but that was also before we knew mirage was bugged 
autumn ginkgo
https://imgur.com/W5NAKRF
That's from Asterix right?
mossy zinc
It's more broken than Charged Flight ever was.
mossy zinc
That's from Asterix right?
Yes.
autumn ginkgo
I love those books
solar maple
nyaanyaa I assume you've seen the recent stuff about dio beo?
mossy zinc
I have.
I think Beowulf may be part of the reason I've barely played any Hades lately. I don't like a meta of exploiting an aspect that's so very broken because of so many bugs.
And they seem to have no intention of fixing it because it would affect the balance a lot when the game has been out for so long now. Understandable but a mistake imo. Well, at the very least it's less fun for me.
shy plinth
I also assumed that after 1000+ hours of playing the game you could use some variety in your gaming diet
flat flicker
And you still have your aphro mod
solemn pulsar
The bugs are more prevalent at low heat. Mirage barely factors in at high heat
glacial gorge
nyaanyaa I assume you've seen the recent stuff about dio beo? <:bouldy:523329116...
What recent stuff if you dont mind me asking
solemn pulsar
Like the 60 heat clears Don’t
solar maple
What recent stuff if you dont mind me asking
dio beo gets twice as much damage as it should from poms, for no explicable reason
I still don't like dio beo though
flat flicker
I like it on charged shot Stygian soul but it needs chaos extra bloodstone lol
viscid dirge
Any strategies for completing forced overtime? I’ve beaten Hades with all the conditions except this
I’m also trying to beat 16 heat. Tips for that would be appreciated
brittle barn
for forced overtime just practice
youll adjust after keeping it on 2 for all your runs
flat flicker
I’m also trying to beat 16 heat. Tips for that would be appreciated
Eris rail
Smoldering
shy plinth
What's your pact
undone tartan
All I have left is Hades spear 32 heat
quartz mantle
Beowulf has some funny glitches where it functions a little differently than intended
Mirage Shot's second cast deals full damage rather than the 30% like it does with any other aspect
Trippy Flare gets double value from Poms
eternal hare
to be clear the way it plays is totally fine, but the numbers are a bit funky
quartz mantle
I think there's something with Charged Shot as well
Yea
I don't have any problem with it cause it still plays fine but just deals more damage than you'd think
I personally don't think Beo is broken because of these glitches, sure Mirage is nuts but you don't need it when your whole play style is so safe while also aggro enough to deal a lot of damage
My only 50 heat clear was on Beo and it didn't use Mirage, pretty sure the two 60 heat Beo runs don't use Mirage either
undone tartan
What’s the easiest strategy for 32 heat Hades spear? Merciful End?
flat flicker
smoldering
flat flicker
something good on zag spear
just do it again lol
or
smoldering
pom the crap out of zeus call
undone tartan
something good on zag spear
I did Flurry Jab
flat flicker
youll be aight
narrow carbon
With Hades I went for Smoldering and didn’t get it. Still cleared with Aphro attack and Zeus call.
ME also works
flat flicker
quick spin yeet
quartz mantle
Exploding Launcher and try to get charged Skewer
undone tartan
But ME on Hades spear is so slow
This is like 10x harder than any aspect before it except Guan Yu. It’s only 6x harder than Guan Yu
This aspect is terrible
eternal hare
it's not great, yeah
shy plinth
Should note that the thing missing from my above build was... merciful end
You can do just fine with it, spear has high base damage
But it's still a spear
cursive ridge
does sd work on the individual rooms in styx?
i kinda did an oopsie and forgot to kill myself before finishing theseus
cursive ridge
oky cool thanks sm
almost finished a 32 heat run :< was really unlucky didnt get any than rooms the whole run ended up dying to tight deadline
flat flicker
almost finished a 32 heat run :< was really unlucky didnt get any than rooms the...
Try again, you got it this time if u came that close
shy plinth
What's your pact
amber jetty
What is wrong with witches on the hades fight
literally cannot deal with them
they do not stop playing ring around the rosie with me
shy plinth
Grats!
undone tartan
Guan Yu definitely ended up being the hardest, but Hades was the most annoying
honest kernel
good job
undone tartan
Thank you!
gaunt fiber
I personally don't think Beo is broken because of these glitches, sure Mirage is...
excuse me
Beo is beyond broken lad
hard gale
mans really said it doesnt deal enough damage
gaunt fiber
lmao
tbf what Unova said is true
Imo beo is broken but does not need these glitches
jaunty falcon
Yeah I don't believe that there are many high heat runs that actually get mirage shot
mossy zinc
Perhaps, but it shouldn't have that potential in the first place.
215° of block is also too much tbh, but that's not a bug, at least.
gaunt fiber
It's just unfair that it has access to these
solemn pulsar
Losing i frames during cast and flare size shrinking when attack boon is sold or upgraded or replaced is unfair too
mossy zinc
Right. I just wish they would fix it.
glass blade
If I use LQ 100% and stubborn defiance, can I ever get back to full health?
left prism
If you stack touch of styx maybe
gaunt fiber
You can yeah
the most common way being Touch of Styx Dark and Last Stand
you'll get 30+50+10/14 (iirc)
100% is achievable
quartz mantle
mans really said it doesnt deal enough damage
That’s not what I said at all but alright
elfin rock
i tried HL5 with zag fists
i managed to get ME
and i used pierced butterfly
so i had pretty good luck
but dad fight was insane
80 damage everytime he hit me
even with 3 DDs i still lost
elfin rock
yea i only managed to get like 20% on the pierced butterfly anywaay
so it wasn't that much extra damage
quartz mantle
Pierced butterfly is fun but for high heat runs it’s better to force gods in tart and asphodel for your build and then use acorn/tooth for elysium and acorn for dad for safety
You managed to get ME without forcing gods which is quite lucky but forcing ares and Athena will make getting ME a lot more consistent
elfin rock
tru
undone tartan
What pacts should I take to get me up to 40 heat for Zeus shield? Can it handle Jury Summons well? Is it time for Approval Process? Maybe even Damage Control? I need 2 more heat
pseudo kernel
zeus can easily beat DC
undone tartan
Alright, thanks
gaunt fiber
I think it handles JS pretty well yeah
You'll feel DC but it handles it very well too
solar maple
would be kind of interesting to make a mod that fixes all the beo bugs
but some of them are so mysterious that I have no idea what causes them in the code lmao
undone tartan
I did a 40 heat run with Eris and was doing super well until I ran into Asterius miniboss. He killed me in less than 10 seconds. Is it possible that JS3 would be easier than EM3? It’s Eris so the timer won’t be an issue
EM3 is just so hard with FO2 and HL5
I always have EM3 for my 32 heat runs but in those I also have FO1 and HL3 (or less)
flat flicker
I think if you have the heat to spare, would rather have em3 fo1 than em2 fo2
undone tartan
That might be true actually
waxen relic
Beefed up Asterius is a wall for sure. But i'd rather learn him than hope not to run into some specific JS3 Rooms.
undone tartan
Then maybe I should have put on AP1 and JS1 instead idk
waxen relic
I'll suggest practicing a bit first. And maybe Tooth for Elysium, to get more stuff vs the miniboss specifically.
undone tartan
But also Lando has a point. I’d probably remove FO2 before EM3
Btw I have a ton of practice against EM3
I did every aspect at 32 heat, and left EM3 on for every run
waxen relic
FO2 Em3 changes stuff as you seem to have experienced
as in makes it even harder than you'd think
undone tartan
That is true
mossy zinc
EM3 practice doesn't really translate much into HL5 EM3 FO2 practice.
elfin rock
HL5 practice is pain
undone tartan
I know this isn’t about high heat but this is where the experienced players are so I think it’s the best place to make sure this question gets answered:
What does Flurry Fire mean by “more accurate”? Is the rail actually more accurate? I checked the wiki and it says the cooldown is reduced to 60%, but says nothing about increased accuracy.
quartz mantle
I believe there's less spread on the shots
solar maple
yeah I think so. Also interestingly delta chamber might completely remove the scatter?
idk
jaunty falcon
Delta even more OP? 👀
solar maple
∆
undone tartan
Does the spread affect the accuracy of Hestia empowered shot? I feel like I sometimes miss but I can’t tell if that’s the spread or if it’s because I’m bad
glacial gorge
TIL theres spread on the basic fire
undone tartan
I still want to know if accuracy can possibly be an issue with Hestia empowered shot
solemn pulsar
Empowered shot is a separate weapon
Most hammers have no affect on it
They only affect the normal rail shots
Exceptions are like ricochet and piercing obv
solemn pulsar
Does the spread affect the accuracy of Hestia empowered shot? I feel like I some...
Do you use auto aim?
undone tartan
Yes
solemn pulsar
I don’t think flurry affects it at all though, no
undone tartan
Ok, thanks cgull!
solemn pulsar
If I remember I’ll check what it modifies later
actually i forgot i have my latpop i can check it now hehe
yeah it doesn't modify the empowered shot, it's not guaranteed that it won't have any effects, but the fact that stuff is selectively applied to it in other hammers would imply that that's the case
undone tartan
Thanks!
narrow carbon
This was my standard pact for all aspects at 40 heat (hell mode though) https://imgur.com/a/Hf9D6By
On normal mode, you lose PL and I suggest removing CP (forced on hell mode) - instead taking DC if the aspect can handle it, maybe AP or CF if the aspect is not too boon reliant (for example, I took Shackle to Dad for Hestia and Zag Bow), JS if you like lots of waves
narrow carbon
What pacts should I take to get me up to 40 heat for Zeus shield? Can it handle ...
^
undone tartan
Oh thanks! I basically always use CF (I know some people think that’s a bad idea but I honestly disagree), even for me 32 heat runs. I’m definitely not used to HS, and I can definitely get used to it but as I am rn I am not nearly careful enough with traps. Tbh, beside that, (and the hell mode required CP), that’s pretty close to the pacts that I often use
My 32 heat pact is almost always:
HL3, LC4, CF1, EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO1, TD3
Once I go beyond 32, I go up to FO2, HL5, and CF2. Which gets me to 38. And then if my aspect can handle DC2 then I have 40 heat. If not, then it can hopefully handle JS2 because that would be my go-to
narrow carbon
I took CF2 a lot at 32, but you might also find that it hurts you more at 40. It’s nice to have more stuff
shy plinth
Why not FO2 at 32
undone tartan
That is actually a fair point, but also removing it is a lot more painful at ;0
undone tartan
Why not FO2 at 32
FO2 is really hard
shy plinth
If you're already used to it I dunno
undone tartan
Nah it’s still really hard
Doesn’t matter if you’re used to it, it still gives you much less time to react
I actually decided I’m not good enough at Zeus shield to do 40 heat yet, so I’ll probably come back to it later
narrow carbon
For HS, you will die a lot, learn where the traps are and to pay attention to them, and then die a lot less to them (except Lernie maybe)
undone tartan
My next plan is to get a ton of EM4 practice, that way I can go above 40 heat with Beowulf. And also so I have a backup for some aspects. Also because EM4 looks super fun, especially if it’s a lower heat run without FO2 and HL5
undone tartan
For HS, you will die a lot, learn where the traps are and to pay attention to th...
Yeah I’m especially scared of Lernie with HS
glacial gorge
This was my standard pact for all aspects at 40 heat (hell mode though) https://...
How'd you do hera and/or zag bow, i cant get those down for the life of me
narrow carbon
Looking back, this Hera build seems kind of meh - hammers were good though https://i.imgur.com/9Osw9DP.jpg
cursive ridge
whats a good build for 32 heat chiron? i was thinking of dio centric build with low tolerance and curse of nausea
i heard artemis special was also good tho so im not entirely sure
jaunty falcon
You can start with aphro attack and pick up either Dio or Artemis special depending on what one you see first, since both of those gods have a duo with aphro which is really good
narrow carbon
How'd you do hera and/or zag bow, i cant get those down for the life of me
For Zag bow, Chaos boons, Deadly Strike, Hunter’s Mark and good hammers help to scale damage. It was my first 40 bow and I just had good hammers (twin perfect) and Shackle
glacial gorge
For Zag bow, Chaos boons, Deadly Strike, Hunter’s Mark and good hammers help to ...
Damn they're my last ones lol
Surprised by the lack of CF but hell mode does that for you ig
narrow carbon
I like to buy boons, poms, and health. I’d take JS before CF
mossy zinc
I don't think either one is too bad.
Taking JS over CF also means you're more likely to need to enter shops to save time.
Taking CF over JS just means it's often a good decision to skip shop for a free gold laurel reward.
narrow carbon
Btw, my Zag bow advice is the advice Nyaanyaa gave me and it worked
glacial gorge
This is my go to for 40 heat but i may give yours a try
Unfortunately no hell mode tho
narrow carbon
Pact looks fine! Small differences could just be personal preference
mossy zinc
That Privileged Status did nothing.
glacial gorge
Yeah i was doing some fun runs and always forget to switch it off lol
unique zephyr
I do that but instead of approval process I do heightened security and one level of jury summons instead for 40
If I can take damage control for stuff like Rama or Demeter fists, I take off Convenience Fee
Approval process is probably mathematically better than convenience fee in terms of a better build on average but I really dislike approval process as a pact since it's not fun for me
undone tartan
Looking back, this Hera build seems kind of meh - hammers were good though https...
Hold up. Explosive shot? Was that only good because you had triple shot? Because I was under the impression that Explosive Shot is a completely terrible hammer. I’m actually very intrigued because I totally did not know that hammer wasn’t worthless
gaunt fiber
It's okay
solar maple
it's a decent 2nd hammer
undone tartan
Is it playable on Rama? I’d assume it’s not, right?
solar maple
lol
gaunt fiber
Woops
Well you guessed my opinion on explosive Rama
Forgot the serv we were in lmao
undone tartan
Wait is it good? I actually don’t know, please tell me what you think
solar maple
on rama it's pretty bad
undone tartan
Ok that’s what I thought
undone tartan
Where do you want it? Zag and Hera? Or just Hera because Zag bow wants power shots?
Except, I thought you wouldn’t want it on Hera because you’d lose your range.
You definitely don’t want it on Chiron, right?
I’m actually intrigued
I was under the impression that Explosive Shot was like a bottom 3 hammer in the whole game
gaunt fiber
I like it in Zag bow yeah
undone tartan
Ok cool. I can imagine that
solar maple
it's no triple/twin, but it does do a good amount of damage
undone tartan
Cool, thanks for letting me know! I wonder how many other hammers I write off that are actually decent
solar maple
how do you feel about delta chamber 👀
cursive ridge
what pacts should i take for a 32 heat chiron run?
jaunty falcon
Check the pinned messages, it should have everything you need
honest kernel
hmm make sure to pom your cast
next wyvern
i usually get like 8
but I just cant deal with Elysium spawns for some reasons
oh btw which swors build is the easiest to get 32 heat on it?
mossy zinc
Probably the Excalibur build I just described in #h1-builds-and-combat.
cursive ridge
shud i take DC2 on chiron 32 heat?
idle fox
What is DC?
cursive ridge
damage control 2
idle fox
I did my 32 heat with damage control 2
Got the 2 hits in before the bosses could make a single move
idle fox
This was my set up for my 32 hit run althou the weapon was excalibur
mossy zinc
32 Chiron with DC2 is perfectly doable, but almost anything is a better option.
idle fox
I know one that isn't... speed boost
idle fox
you did dc2 excal?
excal?
cursive ridge
https://discord.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/8844142225435...
well ive already done 32 heat i just want to complete it on other aspects
mossy zinc
FO is 3 Heat anyway.
cursive ridge
and ive been struggling all day to find a way to do it i always fall at em3 theseus r
waxen relic
https://discord.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/8844142225435...
this pact screams pain at me. But if you like spending your time like that have fun.
cursive ridge
uh i dont like using sword aspects
mossy zinc
Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn
Do that for Chiron.
idle fox
this pact screams pain at me. But if you like spending your time like that have ...
Done it yesterday. I tried to do it with speed instead of the boon limit but things were just too fast for me
mossy zinc
this pact screams pain at me. But if you like spending your time like that have ...
That's what people say about RI4 lol. They're wrong, of course.
waxen relic
That's what people say about RI4 lol. They're wrong, of course.
Indeed.
amber jetty
Yeah, why not?
can you send the victory from the record thing in the admin chamber? these pacts seem pretty bad, especially on excalibur
idle fox
can you send the victory from the record thing in the admin chamber? these pacts...
Let me see I have done a lot of runs afte rthat... I play witha controller if that also clears some things up
mossy zinc
It's as doable as anything, but it's not a pact I would recommend at all for Excalibur at 32.
waxen relic
^
idle fox
aaaa I can't send screenshots here
waxen relic
link it
idle fox
mossy zinc
Ah. God Mode would help a lot.
idle fox
I actually felt like it was pretty easy with excalibur
I just had to be ion my toes
And... well... take a break after cause my hands hurted after it
cursive ridge
**Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide**
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
<:c...
for this is it better to take family favorite or priveleged status
mossy zinc
Privileged Status is better if you get Drunken Flourish or Frost Flourish. Family Favorite is better otherwise and overall more consistent, I'd say.
cursive ridge
i took family favorite just in case i dont get any other status boons
mossy zinc
Yeah, it's more reliable.
cursive ridge
thanks
idle fox
the only problem I see with excalibur is that it's slow but it makes it up with the aura that helps you take less damage and makes enemies slower. Also it does a lot of damage
honest kernel
the speed gets nasty at 40+ but 32 is very comfy for excalibur
mossy zinc
It's excellent for 32 Heat. Just DC hurts Excalibur's DPS a lot. It does slow swings that do a lot of damage. So every DC heart tanks a lot of damage from you.
And yeah, it's much harder to get your swings in with any FO.
idle fox
It's excellent for 32 Heat. Just DC hurts Excalibur's DPS *a lot*. It does slow ...
Eh.. just throw 2 ... what are those orbs called... throw 2 of those at the dude or just dash attack or take your time.
honest kernel
the problem is taking too long to kill singular enemies with a time limit
mossy zinc
That still hurts your DPS a lot.
mossy zinc
You do 0 damage for your first two hits with DC2.
idle fox
I know
mossy zinc
That's the whole point.
idle fox
Yeha but after just 2 hits I can go ham on the dude
mossy zinc
After "just 2 hits" on every single enemy in the game.
idle fox
Yeah.
mossy zinc
Acorn is just generally the best tank keepsake in the game for boss fights.
idle fox
No big deal
mossy zinc
And you're giving every enemy 2 Acorn charges.
idle fox
Completely fine with me.
cursive ridge
id rather take td 3 than go dc2 on excalibur
idle fox
Actually DC was one of the first heats I added to the list cause it's not hard to get rid of
mossy zinc
That's fine, but it's not a good strategy if clearing is the goal.
idle fox
We have differnt play styles I gues
mossy zinc
I'd rather say we have very different levels of experience.
honest kernel
like I said, DC is very easy in a vacuum but gets too hard with time limit and more enemies in mind
which is whats gonna happen when you get to higher heats
idle fox
I know I am slow and horrible at speed running so I never bothered woth the speed run pact
mossy zinc
Even without TD, you're just taking so much longer to kill enemies that you're much more likely to take damage etc.
You also don't stun enemies for the first two hits.
idle fox
Pretty sure you don't get in any stuns until their armor is gone
mossy zinc
Plenty of enemies that don't have armor.
idle fox
like the yellow bar that usually takes for ever to destroy
Most enemies had armor on my run. even the annoying explosive charioets
mossy zinc
DC is definitely the #1 pact that new players delving into high heat underestimate a lot until they have a lot more experience.
They all come around, eventually.
If they're elites, it still takes 2 more hits to take off their armor. That's a lot of time with Excalibur.
idle fox
🤔 Guess I'm not right in the head cause DC was one of the first I picked up because it felt the easiest to do.
waxen relic
This is not saying that it definitely is that way, but it could be that the reason you don't come to terms with FO for example is that you can't control your foes, because you take too long to take care of DC.
mossy zinc
I didn't use any language like that.
On the contrary, I said it's very common to underestimate DC when you first get into high heat.
idle fox
I raised the heat up gradually. started with 1 and with each victory I added one point to the pact
I started with DC. Liek the very first thing I picked up
After that.. I think I picked up enemy health than extreem messurs. Or was oit the one that increased the enemy count?
waxen relic
The Pact doens't work linear is the problem. One thing eventually amplifies other thing you thought you were completely over.
idle fox
Basically I had a lot of practice with that pact, I slowly build it up to that.
I didn't do 8/16/32. I did, 1/2/3../32
waxen relic
Like yesterday there was someone with a lot of experience vs em3, but suddenly died in 10 seconds against solo Asterius on higher heat.
solemn pulsar
FO2 EM3 asterius is evil
idle fox
Was that the cow or teh human?
solemn pulsar
waxen relic
There's no solo encounter with the King.
idle fox
in EM3 I genuinly felt the cow was harder to beat but odly I felt the king became much easier
cursive ridge
FO2 EM3 asterius is evil
this haunts my nightmares
mossy zinc
No offense, but while that's probably plenty of experience compared to the average player in the server, it's barely any experience compared to the average player in this channel.
Anyway, no one's saying that DC2 Excalibur isn't doable, it's just a lot more trouble than it's worth for 2 Heat, and not really what's recommended for players who just want to clear 32.
idle fox
I couldn't even beat FO1... that's how I ended up using the boon limiter
idle fox
No offense, but while that's probably plenty of experience compared to the avera...
Fair enough.. it also takes time since.. well... look at my time..
I was at it for 49 minutes
cursive ridge
i think FO1 is just really tough for the first few runs with it
waxen relic
Sometimes the only thing you need is practice.
cursive ridge
but rn id rather take FO2 than dropping FO2 for HL since i got so used to the speed already
mossy zinc
If you're used to the speed, taking HL5 FO0 will be much easier than HL0 FO2.
idle fox
I didn't even turn on FO1 until I was attempting 32 heat
and... I just couldn't beat hades in it's third phase with it
Also the chain hands were my night mare with it
cursive ridge
and... I just couldn't beat hades in it's third phase with it
u dont need EM4 for 32 heat
idle fox
Sometimes the only thing you need is practice. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
In words of Dark Souls comunity... Git Gud
mossy zinc
FO2 requires either excellent reactions or a good understanding of enemy behavior.
idle fox
u dont need EM4 for 32 heat
🙅♀️ Uh uh... no way I would pick any other option in that pact. Liek I knew I couldn't do anything else in that list. I had to pick that up
mossy zinc
Or just so very broken builds that enemy behavior doesn't matter.
waxen relic
Em4 is another pact that is popular for the first 32 Heat tries, but very few stick with in the end btw.
mossy zinc
I've been considering making another pact guide for EM4 32 Heat.
idle fox
Em4 is another pact that is popular for the first 32 Heat tries, but very few st...
🤣 I'm keeping that thing on for my regular runs now that I'm done with 32
mossy zinc
Because so many players just insist on doing EM4 for their first 32.
honest kernel
i guess either remove fo or hl
waxen relic
DD strats?
mossy zinc
Perhaps, but TD3 EM4 can be tight, too.
clever otter
4 is a lot of heat, so the rest of the run is so much easier - until you get to EM4 hades and he crushes you
idle fox
DD strats?
?
clever otter
speaking from experience.... 😔
mossy zinc
LC0 EM4 is an option, yeah.
mossy zinc
Figuring out what works best for most new players is quite a bit of work.
idle fox
#h1-victory-boasting message
I just knew I couldn't pick anything that isn't in this list. As in I had to crank up some stuff in this list cause any other option wasn't doable for me
mossy zinc
If you've been gradually adding Heat to a certain pact, you have very little experience with other pact combos to truly gauge their difficulty.
Something to keep in mind.
idle fox
🤔 I'm trying to find this stuborn defience
waxen relic
Try Nyaanyaa's guide sometime for fun if you'd like.
mossy zinc
Stubborn Defiance is a mirror talent.
waxen relic
🤔 I'm trying to find this stuborn defience
it's a mirror option
idle fox
it's a mirror option
The last option on the green side?
mossy zinc
Opposite Death Defiance.
idle fox
I emannot the last one... yeah ^
I think... I leved that up to level 2?
I barly leveled up the green stuff
waxen relic
there's only one level
idle fox
Oh.
Yeah... I hadn't used the green stuff.
Only purple ones
Will switch to leveling those when I'm done with the purples thou
waxen relic
just use the leftover keys you have. They don't have much use.
idle fox
Keys are completly useless to me
all abilities are unlokced, I just need darkness
A LOT of darkness
waxen relic
See, just empty you mirror and you'll have more Darkness.
mossy zinc
Maxing your rank is a lot of Darkness. Maxing your mirror is the tutorial.
idle fox
🤔 You do have a point there but when the end goal is to max out everything, that doesn't really help
idle fox
Maxing your rank is a lot of Darkness. Maxing your mirror is the tutorial. <:cou...
A..... I'm dreading the time I have to do that
Well... not have... no body is forcing me, when I want to do that
waxen relic
Max out will happen eventually. Well in some years but anyway. You don't lose Darkness from emptying the mirror.
idle fox
I probebly drop doing regular runs with heat 20 when I get to grinding darkness
waxen relic
But you get to try more stuff and have fun. The way is the goal.
idle fox
yeah.. I still have a lot of stuf fto unlock so I'm sticking to that heat 20
I have to befriend the olypians, some cothinic gods and stuff
Doubt I ever drop the extreem mesures thou. The cow in armor is too much to lose
solemn pulsar
I did em4 for my first 32 attempt
I died
I took it off for my second 32 attempt
I won
mossy zinc
That means taking off EM4 increases your chance by +1.
cursive ridge
if i sold divine dash in pool of purging can i get it offered to me again
mossy zinc
Statistics.
cursive ridge
nice
solemn pulsar
That means taking off EM4 increases your chance by +1.
Yeah but the margin of error on that is quite wide
flat flicker
My first 32 was jury summons 3 with em4 becuase I was scared of LC4…man I was naive lol
undone tartan
Haha
flat flicker
also shoutout to that Erebus gate in room one of asphodel giving me sitting bolt
lc4 em4 scary tho
I’ve never gone into em4 feeling confident
cursive ridge
non FO hades spin caught me so off guard i timed my dash too early to dodge it fudge
undone tartan
On my 32 heat Hestia run, I had 2 extra DDs from Athena, 14% extra DD regen from Last Stand, over 200 max HP, and Touch of Styx Dark (and Acorn in Styx lol). Unfortunately I got a 3-sack so I didn’t get to keep Touch of Styx for Hades (not that I’d need it, but it just would have been funny). That’s a build I’d be confident bringing into EM4. That’s like 800+ health right there lmao
mossy zinc
I wouldn't be confident with that going into EM4.
next wyvern
i dunno i just feel safe with some healing
undone tartan
LC4 honestly is kinda the same as LC3 tbh
undone tartan
I wouldn't be confident with that going into EM4.
Even with FO1 and HL3?
mossy zinc
No idea. I don't do FO1.
undone tartan
Also it was Hestia which is a very safe aspect
undone tartan
No idea. I don't do FO1.
God gamer
mossy zinc
Goddess*
undone tartan
Ofc
mossy zinc
But no, m merely the high priestess and apostle of a true Goddess.
undone tartan
I just can’t imagine how I’d manage to lose 800+ health with a build that was doing like 360 per empowered shot
next wyvern
i put FO1 on default and i kinda got used to it tbh
the worst part is like miniwheels with spd up and teleportation
mossy zinc
360 isn't much for Hestia.
undone tartan
No it’s not
flat flicker
I just can’t imagine how I’d manage to lose 800+ health with a build that was do...
I’ve lost em4 with Zeus legendary and a thousand health before, feels bad man ngl
undone tartan
360 isn't much for Hestia.
But with 800-900 health, it’s enough to not really worry
next wyvern
btw did they nerf Athena duos with Ares and Artemis?
you can only get them with Athena atk or special now
undone tartan
Yeah, that was a pretty old change I think
next wyvern
or was that always the case
undone tartan
I think that was a change but I’m not 100% sure
next wyvern
Also is there a hidden value that if i have ares atk Athena will never spawn special?
next wyvern
i already dont like using fist i just want it done
undone tartan
Yeah very fair
next wyvern
I hope you’re using Fated Persuasion
roll 3 times and have none
next wyvern
but like get special first and then second into her either dash or her duo
than get her dash first and hope 2 next rng
but yeah
undone tartan
Special is better to get first but it’s not super important since ME won’t do much without the dash anyway
quartz mantle
Seeding sets your first boon to be something specific
undone tartan
At high heat, I’d rather get the dash first
next wyvern
how do you do that?
quartz mantle
Each run has a seed which mainly affects the first room reward
dying resets the seed
but giving up doesn't
next wyvern
oh i see
quartz mantle
so if you find a seed you want to keep playing you give up when you die and try again
There's a mod you can use to set a specific seed so you don't have to go find one yourself
next wyvern
oh and if you have dash strike boon from Artemis with Arthur
quartz mantle
then you get the benefit of not having to start with a god keepsake and can start with something like Mom Pom or Coin Purse
next wyvern
does the big swing while dashing get damage boosted?
undone tartan
Also, you can cast away from a door as you enter a room to potentially change what boons you’ll get offered in the room. Idk how it works lmao
quartz mantle
Wait are y'all talking about ME with Arthur?
Also no
it's specifically your dash attack
quartz mantle
I saw you guys talking about ME then you mentioned arthur
undone tartan
God no
next wyvern
I''m not a masochist
quartz mantle
Also, you can cast away from a door as you enter a room to potentially change wh...
you can increment rng with casts and summons but that doesn't help unless you have a specific route you're going for
Routing is different from seeding in that you can control everything the game can give you, like room enemies, boons, wells etc
But is much harder and time consuming
undone tartan
you can increment rng with casts and summons but that doesn't help unless you ha...
Well, if I have a room 2 hammer, and I get a terrible selection on my first run, then I can give up, and cast as I enter the room the second time to get different options
undone tartan
I don’t understand how routing actually works, but this is the small way that I dip my toes into that
next wyvern
i just finished an Arthur 32 run
quartz mantle
Oh woops
next wyvern
and most of it is just spam Zeus call lol
quartz mantle
From what I know chamber 1 is very funky
And rng increments depend on timing because the shades like to move around
undone tartan
I think your room 2 reward (as in, if it’s a hammer than it was stay a hammer) can’t change but your room 3 reward can
undone tartan
And rng increments depend on timing because the shades like to move around
That’s too complicated lol
next wyvern
I think your room 2 reward (as in, if it’s a hammer than it was stay a hammer) c...
but does the upgrades from the hammer changes
quartz mantle
Yea you have to increment your rng in chamber 1
next wyvern
ah
quartz mantle
which changes based on shade movements and casts/summons
undone tartan
but does the upgrades from the hammer changes
Yes, sometimes randomly, but they are more likely to change if you do something weird like cast in chamber 1 and I have no idea why that is lmao
quartz mantle
Because casting increments your rng
next wyvern
beside ME and Zeus what else is good on Chaos on high heat?
undone tartan
Because casting increments your rng
But what does that mean
next wyvern
Dionusus?
quartz mantle
Rng is a specific number that determines your rooms and rewards and such right
casting increments that number
undone tartan
Chaos aspect? I always go for Aphrodite special and hope for explosive return
quartz mantle
as does summoning
quartz mantle
Thank you cgull
undone tartan
Interesting, thanks
solemn pulsar
the rest is just how to run a route
quartz mantle
beside ME and Zeus what else is good on Chaos on high heat?
Doom, Zeus, and Dio on special are all good options
next wyvern
Explosive return?
next wyvern
i usually take the charge shot over that
undone tartan
Charged Shot is really good
next wyvern
80 on Aphro attack is no joke
undone tartan
But ER is amazing specifically if you have Aphrodite special
undone tartan
The explosive return damage is affected by your special boon, as long as it’s a % value
next wyvern
so if i take Chaos special boost explosive return also get boosted?
undone tartan
Also, 6 shields that are all dealing 80%+ extra damage is actually a lot
solemn pulsar
it procs non % effects as well
you get a lightning bolt off it
or doom or whatever
it just can't crit, is the only limitation
quartz mantle
Explosive return is kinda nuts but charged shot is also very good
undone tartan
Chaos shield with Aphro special is great for shotgunning enemies, even without Explosive Return
quartz mantle
both of those hammers are the ones you want typically so if you see either one you're pretty set
undone tartan
Sudden Rush is also good, but not quite as good as those 2
Sudden Rush is always good
Charged Shot, Explosive Return, and Sudden Rush are definitely my top 3 shield hammers, especially for Zeus shield and Chaos shield (I don’t really like ER for Beowulf but the other two are even stronger here)
quartz mantle
Beo doesn't care for your puny hammers all it needs is a broken mirage flair
undone tartan
Well yeah. But also, Charged Shot and Sudden Rush are hugely helpful, especially CShot
I definitely couldn’t have done 40 heat Beo so easily without Charged Shot room 1
narrow carbon
Hold up. Explosive shot? Was that only good because you had triple shot? Because...
Explosive Shot is a fine second hammer. It works differently (AOE, but no pierce), so you’re shooting into crowds rather than lining up enemies. It’s a big %.
It’s too slow on Rama unless you are really good at knowing when to commit
undone tartan
Gotcha
quartz mantle
Explosive doesn't really work well on rama anyways because you're never able to powershot reliably and that's just a damage loss
Double Edge and it's not even close
eternal hare
Explosive is an ok cope 2nd hammer on rama, but only if you've got Artemis attack
undone tartan
Double Edge is so STRONG
quartz mantle
Probably shadow slash
undone tartan
well atm the 3 options are dash nova, shadow dash and cruel thrust
Eww that’s a terrible selection 
quartz mantle
Or Dash Nova if you're cool 
undone tartan
Dash Nova
quartz mantle
Schmoovin
undone tartan
My pick for the second worst hammer in the entire game
next wyvern
it''s like special then dash/dash then special
but worse
welp i''m dead
how is Poseidon sword?
which cast is best for it on high heat?
next wyvern
oh
not the one i expected
i expected something like Poseidon and then try to get mirage
quartz mantle
Poseidon cast doesn't deal as much single target damage as Phalanx shot does and Mirage is only ok with Poseidon sword
next wyvern
ah
jaunty falcon
Phalanx shot with no mirage probably does more damage than flood shot with mirage
Because pom scaling and base damage are OP
mossy zinc
Mirage Shot is just 30% more damage.
You usually get more bonus damage from Master Chaos tbh.
Mirage Shot is good because it multiplies all the other bonus damage you get.
But you need to get that bonus damage first for it to really shine.
It's different on Beowulf because that's straight up double damage.
It's more often the cherry on top in a build that's already great.
jaunty falcon
Also it's really nice on Achilles, but it's not necessary on poseidon
mossy zinc
Yeah, because Achilles Aspect starts out with +150% Cast damage.
Poseidon only has Family Favorite and maybe High Confidence from the start.
jaunty falcon
And Achilles is that + epic RD
mossy zinc
Oh right. I actually forgot lol. But it's not that much compared to +150%.
mossy zinc
That makes more sense on Achilles than Poseidon.
Anyway, the 30% from Mirage Shot is effectively the same as 0.3 * (1 + bonus_cast_dmg).
Assuming Poseidon Aspect and +25% from Family Favorite and nothing else, that's +52.5%.
Which is decent, certainly.
But worth taking a lower base damage Cast for, or worth forcing two specific gods for in your run?
Boneless Hourglass would be a more reliable option for maintaining +50% Cast damage and potentially more and other benefits.
undone tartan
It’s super fun with glacial glare tho
Isn’t crystal beam way better for Achilles? There’s no reason to use Poseidon, it’s not like your casts are getting stuck in bosses
Oh wait Nyaa already said that
🐌
next wyvern
so the best cast on poseidon sword is Phalynx?
it''s a shame Athena duo with Zeus cast do no thunder
mossy zinc
I don't know about best. It's very effective.
jaunty falcon
With Ares cast you might as well use achilles spear
mossy zinc
Which doesn't make it bad on Poseidon, though.
next wyvern
Like i did a run with phalynx and died at Hades
mossy zinc
Electric Shot and Crush Shot are great, too.
quartz mantle
You mainly want a cast that lodges
next wyvern
because i got didnt get the zeus + aphro du
quartz mantle
Crush Shot is good damage as well but it's slightly less safe than Phalanx
next wyvern
Phalynx without on Hera can it even back stab?
i tried but i see none
on Posei at least
quartz mantle
Phalanx shot with Parting Shot is weird with Hera
Cause it backstabs from the front and frontstabs from the back
next wyvern
well with hera it always backstab at the front at least
quartz mantle
Yea but you can't backstab greatshields because of that
next wyvern
i usually use use whatever call i have to get rid of shields
mossy zinc
You died in the fight because you made mistakes in the fight. Smoldering Air could have carried you through your mistakes, but lack of it isn't why you lost.
next wyvern
well tbf mostly because Thesus took 3 of my heart
and i was trying LC4
tooks too long to kill them compare to other builds i tried
undone tartan
I’ve heard people mention using Lambent Plume for high heat? Is this an actual good strategy? Is it only worth using if you’re starting with it, since Tartarus is gonna be a large bulk of your %, or is it still good if you put it on entering Asphodel? Is this even a real strategy or just a meme?
jaunty falcon
Not really tbh, more of a meme
quartz mantle
Plume strats for bad news tho
undone tartan
Ok thanks
shy plinth
Yeah plume in asphodel is for rare situations where you want to hit a hermes leggo
It's a prereq
jaunty falcon
Or for RD
shy plinth
Ah yes
undone tartan
I always struggle to decide what keepsake to take into Asphodel. Unless I have a specific god I want in my pool, I just don’t know what to use. I always use Acorn for Elysium and Styx, but I don’t feel like I need it for Lernie, nor would it really help much anyway. I’ve experimented with Pom Blossom but I don’t feel like it really pulls it’s weight. I’ve even done Lucky Tooth when I’m worried about getting the Blue Lernie head, but that kinda feels like a waste. I would use Bone Hourglass, but I’m using CF2 and feel my gold would be better spent on boons.
eternal hare
Coin purse
Also can still force a god that's already in your pool if more of their boons is helpful regardless
eternal hare
Yep, although it's pretty rare where you have the gods you want and also see an Ixion while having the freedom of keepsake
undone tartan
40%
quartz mantle
Even better
undone tartan
But I don’t exactly need 40% global damage for Asphodel
quartz mantle
It lets you bank more time for elysium and styx
plus it's just nice to kill things
undone tartan
Yeah I guess that’s true
At 40 heat I might run out of time more often
I almost never run out of time at 32
quartz mantle
I mean I also take Earring in Elysium as well but that's just me 
If things are dead they cannot kill you
eternal hare
Somewhat aspect dependent too
undone tartan
I prefer Acorn because EM3 is hard
eternal hare
Flat damage builds gain way more from earring
undone tartan
Hangover builds
eternal hare
And doom and casts
jaunty falcon
Hangover is very nice
quartz mantle
You know I never really had much issue with EM3 but today I tried Chiron for the first time and I finally get why people say EM3 with FO2 is hard
shy plinth
I can't imagine that we go into asphodel without knowing which god we want to see all that often
undone tartan
What’s a good hangover build for high heat?
quartz mantle
rama special
jaunty falcon
Well, for high heat I'd almost always take Athena keepsake in Asphodel anyway
eternal hare
Drunken strike sword is p good
jaunty falcon
Especially zag sword
eternal hare
(not Arthur)
undone tartan
Drunken strike sword is p good
Zag sword? Wouldn’t ME be better?
jaunty falcon
And drunken strike only needs poms
eternal hare
Yeah if you're at a heat where doing ME is viable
undone tartan
Yeah but ME is just so much stronger than I can’t imagine Drunken Strike is better
undone tartan
Ohhh true because AP exists
eternal hare
But even having AP1 makes ME significantly harder to make work
quartz mantle
Imagine getting ME with RI and AP
shy plinth
Oh and you can do drunken strike on rail, it's really fun with lucy
quartz mantle
It's still pretty fun
Plus if you put on EM4 you invoke the spirit of Retrash to bless your run
undone tartan
Is there any aspect where hangover is the best build for 32-40 heat?
Or a build where chill is good?
shy plinth
Chill is always good, just rarely a build-around
undone tartan
When is Frost Strike good
quartz mantle
May I introduce you to our lord and savior killing freeze
solar maple
killing freeze has carried so many of my 50 heat runs
jaunty falcon
When is Frost Strike good
When you don't like EM4
quartz mantle
Anything with a decent attack
jaunty falcon
Or dad in general
shy plinth
Demeter is weird, she has lots of good boons but no real meta builds
solar maple
but yeah I pretty much never start demeter
undone tartan
I’ve talked about this before. Chill has great T2 boons but the % increase on frost strike and flourish are just too low
solar maple
it's just a nice thing to pick up
eternal hare
The attack is honestly fine
shy plinth
Gilga mistral dash OP
solar maple
yeah dem attack is perfectly fine
eternal hare
It's tied with athena for 2nd highest percentage attack
undone tartan
But is it ever better than Heartbreak Strike?
quartz mantle
Yea
solar maple
generally I prefer heartbreak strike, but if I already have aphro dash or something yeah I would like dem attack over it
eternal hare
Sometimes you just take what's good enough
quartz mantle
30% less damage from attacks is great but when enemies are slower and you don't get hit by them that's 100% less damage from attacks
shy plinth
Math checks out
solar maple
and at high heat it's a lot of making the best of what you're offered
quartz mantle
^
undone tartan
and at high heat it's a *lot* of making the best of what you're offered
It’s also a lot of resetting
eternal hare
Ultimately up to you the player to decide your own tolerance for it
undone tartan
I don’t expect to get super high heats without getting the boons I need anyway
quartz mantle
Yea Aphro attack is sick and if I get zeus call I can build into smoldering and don't have to play the game but if I get Demeter attack I'm vibing
waxen relic
But you can lower what you need and get things done sooner.
quartz mantle
Resets happen a lot less if you're more open to build options
undone tartan
Well I don’t reset myself, I just die
eternal hare
There are a lot of boons I would prefer but if I know I can pb anyway by taking a less ideal option now then it's like w/e
quartz mantle
Like if you reset specifically for Hunter Dash + Aphro attack + Zeus special on Rama or something it's going to take a while
undone tartan
I don’t kill my runs just because I don’t have what I need. I die because I don’t have what I need
quartz mantle
but if you are ok with less optimal boons and have the skill to make up for it you'll end up seeing more success overall
undone tartan
I don’t think I’m good enough to get 40 heat with a suboptimal build
jaunty falcon
Practice practice practice
quartz mantle
Well skill isn't static you're always learning and always improving
eternal hare
Part of improving as a player is eventually getting up to a point where you can clear with less, so you'll get there with practice
solar maple
It’s also a lot of resetting
I don't reset very much?
undone tartan
ok?
solar maple
you really don't need to
undone tartan
I die
solar maple
ok well yeah
undone tartan
Often as early as Meg
At 40 heat
If I can’t get a decent build together in Tartarus
quartz mantle
Have you considered playing Beowulf
undone tartan
~~Have you considered playing Beowulf~~
I did 40 with Beo
But I’m not ready to exceed 40 heat
eternal hare
Somewhat aspect dependent too
For like getting an acceptable strong setup in tart
It is entirely possible that the build you have in mind needs too many moving parts to get online
When there is a more flexible alternative that will get you through
quartz mantle
Yea also focusing health in tart sometimes helps too
Like
if you were per say
running cf0
you could buy health
more often
just saying
sand temple
even with CF, I would be buying health over boons unless I really need stuff to sell for UC
quartz mantle
Yea but like imagine buying boons and health
undone tartan
When there is a more flexible alternative that will get you through
No like I’ll take a boon that I wasn’t hoping for but it will often not be good enough and I’ll die
eternal hare
Yeah not saying it's always the case and it's aspect dependent
Like if you're playing fists I can totally relate to just dying
undone tartan
Yeah ik, I’m just saying that it’s not like I turn down decent boons because I have a better one in mind
eternal hare
But in general even just changing up like your starting keepsake
undone tartan
Well with Zeus shield I definitely want to start with Zeus, right?
quartz mantle
Well yea
eternal hare
Ah yeah
undone tartan
With Rama I start with Aphrodite?
quartz mantle
Not always
eternal hare
Situational
undone tartan
With Eris I start with Zeus
quartz mantle
Usually yea
solar maple
eris without zeus attack start is rough for sure
if you are forced into special or smth. That's one of the few times I will reset a high heat run
quartz mantle
With Rama starting with arty allows you to guaranteed get an attack buffing boon on AP0
eternal hare
I don't mind resetting for Aphrodite attack and rarity, but if you do mind Artemis start is good
Having two viable first boons and all
solar maple
resetting for rarity
quartz mantle
Yea Aphro can vorime you arty is comfy
undone tartan
With Beowulf, at higher heats (not RI or AP heat, but like 41-45 heat), should I be starting with Flood Flare instead of my usual Passion Flare?
eternal hare
No, passion flare is by far the one that needs the least
quartz mantle
Flood Flare is easy to use Passion Flare is easy to build
undone tartan
Isn’t it the other way around?
quartz mantle
No Flood Flare is big aoe
eternal hare
Passion snow burst is way more relaxed than needing mirage
quartz mantle
^
solar maple
flood flare for me is highrolling for mirage shot
eternal hare
No mirage flood is just so sad in damage
undone tartan
The build people seem to tell me to go for is:
PStatus
Passion Flare
Snow Burst
Mirage Shot
That’s 4 gods. How am I supposed to make that work?
quartz mantle
You do not need Mirage
solar maple
those are 2 builds tbh haha
eternal hare
That's the thing, passion snow burst doesn't need mirage
solar maple
the passion flare + snow burst p status build is pretty consistent and strong, but you won't really get mirage with it very often
quartz mantle
if you get Killing Freeze you nut and then win
undone tartan
You do not need Mirage
What? It literally doubles my damage I kinda do need it for 42 heat Beowulf especially with EM4, especially if I’m not that good
solar maple
you can also just completely force mirage, if you are doing that either go flood or passion but don't use p status
and force arty/poseidon in aspho/elysium
quartz mantle
I mean you can go for mirage but like it's kinda high rolling
undone tartan
Well I’m pretty confident I’m not good enough to beat 42 heat without Mirage tbh
solar maple
at 42 you can get mirage pretty consistently
solar maple
as long as you run ap0 ri0
undone tartan
I do
eternal hare
If you're not doing RI AP yeah you can do flood mirage
undone tartan
So drop the PS snow burst thing?
solar maple
yeah
eternal hare
At higher heats when you do though there are good reasons to do passion snow burst over flood mirage
But I guess that's not relevant to your current situation yet
solar maple
weak + chill are both very good status effects, and help a bunch for em4
but yeah mirage will always be more damage
undone tartan
Because I’m not exactly saying that I can’t win without Mirage Shot, more that I can’t win without a super strong build and I can’t imagine that I can get a super strong build that doesn’t include Mirage Shot
wintry berry
Passion flare + snow burst is already strong
eternal hare
Yeah all I'm saying is sometimes strong enough is good enough
wintry berry
on top of being easy to build
solar maple
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/839714597124309012/Screen_Shot_2021-05-05_at_9.05.33_PM.png I would consider this an extremely strong build
quartz mantle
Passion Flare + Snow Burst good for surviability too
solar maple
em4 was kind of a pushover
quartz mantle
30% less damage taken and enemies moving slower
eternal hare
And if the super duper strong thing may be overkill while also being frustratingly difficult to build into then you may want to begin to consider the strong-enough but much easier to build option
quartz mantle
plus you can stack on things like Broken Resolve for more damage resistance, Sweet Surrender and Killing Freeze for more damage
undone tartan
Like, for 40 heat it literally took lvl 7 rare passion flare, mirage shot, charged shot, lvl 4 heartbreak strike, epic chaos cast damage, and Divine Dash (and hyper sprint with rare rush delivery)
eternal hare
For a first clear you might feel like you need all that
With more practice you'll find you can do it with less
It just takes time
undone tartan
Yeah, but I want to move up in heat instead of running 40 again. I’ll definitely do a few EM4 HL0 FO2 runs for practice first, since I’m incredibly unfamiliar with EM4
eternal hare
Yea that's fair, there's no one path to improving
Still worth keeping all this in mind if you're hitting a wall in the future
undone tartan
True
Personally I care most about setting personal records with different aspects. After beating 32 with every aspect, I’m looking for my next goal. I’ve already done 40 with Rama and Beo. I tried 40 with Eris and Zeus but I found it to be much too difficult. So I think I’m gonna do EM4 practice and then try for 41 or 42 with Beowulf
shy gulch
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/839714597124309012/Scr...
purple chaos shot on 50 heat 😱
undone tartan
When do I Meg against EM4? Do I do it in phase 1 to deal with the ads (assuming they aren’t easy and I just kill them myself real quick)? Do I do it in phase 3 because I’m super unfamiliar with it? Can I even be sure my Meg will hit if I do it as phase 3 starts? I am using spread fire Zag rail and have Divine Dash and an extra DD from Athena if any of that matters. I also have FO2 HL1, super weird pact, I know, I’ll talk about it after I win or lose this fight
solar maple
usually I use it in the 2nd or 3rd part of the first phase
undone tartan
What if I pick off the ads pretty quickly? My damage output is kinda absurd
solar maple
doesn't really matter then
meg will only be like 1 cast volley worth of damage anyway with a stacked beowulf build
undone tartan
It’s SF Zag rail, but ok thanks. Here I go…
next acorn
Is there a way to avoid him dodging it with darkness besides doing it right away
amber jetty
Do it after he reappears