h1-high-heat-strategies

[flat flicker]

because of TD3

https://tenor.com/view/sanic-the-hedgehob-running-gotta-go-fast-fast-gif-4964355

[subtle cypress]

gotta get rng

[flat flicker]

#h1-victory-boasting message yeah here was my fluke 32 win (had smoldering poseidon call and an asphodel zeus legendary on eris rail)

[scarlet ruin]

#h1-victory-boasting message here's my snail 40

[flat flicker]

oh damn thats actually big brain right there

taking your time

imagine taking my time with things

[shy plinth]

People have tried that, it's successful

I'm kind of surprised at how many people aren't doing LC4 lately

It's really not that bad

Feels like defiances is way harder

[scarlet ruin]

i don't actually understand how LC4 works, i think a lot of people don't

[shy plinth]

I strongly recommend watching vods on the leaderboard

Use stubborn defiance, your base health is like your armor

You can pop it every room to "heal"

You just want to make sure you proactively do so before the boss and then don't have sloppy boss fights

It gives you much more leeway in room fights imo

[scarlet ruin]

SD is pretty scary on EM4 but i think i could make it work otherwise

[shy plinth]

The point is to not take EM4 at 32 😉

It's super punishing

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668865849079103539/836381687100342272/unknown.png

[scarlet ruin]

all my 32s are EM4 although i kind of specifically wanted them to be haha

[shy plinth]

This is the pact I used to do 32 on every aspect

Didn't change it once

[scarlet ruin]

interesting, thanks

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, people really wanna do EM4 for their 32.

I guess for many it's like the final thing they wanna do that's hard, so they want it to be EM4, too.

[next acorn]

Its super tempting to take it if you don't know how bad it is

4 heat just sounds really nice

[unique zephyr]

Every heat except Benefits Package or Middle Management either makes the fight itself harder or affects your build for the fight

Stubborn Defiance makes it a lot tougher too, I tried high heat EM4 once and died to Cerberus

[fleet relic]

doesn't middle management affect the minibosses?

from em4

[solar maple]

no

[fleet relic]

[left prism]

Im pretty sure i saw the butterfly summoned by em4 dad doing the MM dash the other day

[solar maple]

it always does it (in em4)

[nocturne stag]

Unless it spawns mini megagorgons

[shy plinth]

Wouldn't a mini mega gorgon just be a gorgon

[fleet relic]

average sized gorgon

[magic pier]

Won't speak for others but for me, it was about pact tuning. I ran 10 - 20 on most weapons with EM4 on almost constantly. As a result it became what I was comfortable with. I could learn a sequence and get good at it - I cut my videogame teeth on coin op sidescroller beat-em-ups in the 90s. Adapting to the variability of the rooms was much much tougher for me in my learning curve and so I kept the rooms relatively straightforward (yes, I do run BP2 standard now).

When I decided to do 32, it was just a natural choice to stick with the pact I was comfortable with. My base pact that I just played for fun was EM4 FO2 BP2 MM TD2, so I slapped on some RI and AP and won with shield. Then when I decided to do all weapons and aspects at 32, it was kinda like Hat in that I leaned on a base pact - except I did switch up around 3 heat worth based on aspect.

[jaunty falcon]

You would have been more comfortable with a pact that used HL and LC before RI and AP, trust me

[green fiber]

Double FO? I'm not good enough for that lmao

[shy plinth]

It's worth getting used to but it is difficult

[unique zephyr]

Yeah, it took me running FO2 for every run for many many hours and dying a lot

But it is worth the 6 heat and you’ll get used to everything, the sooner you switch the sooner you’ll get used to it

I was scared of FO2 as well, it is hard and you will get hit and die a lot but with repetition you will get it

When you’re first getting used to FO2 keep in mind melee weapons are harder with FO2 because when you’re up close you have to be able to react faster, so maybe don’t use fists or swords in the first few hours of the learning process

The thing about FO2 is once you get used to it it’s consistent if that makes sense, so it becomes a reliable 6 heat

I did my first 32 with no forced overtime then started turning on FO2 after that

[gaunt fiber]

You can't react to some moves on FO2 as a melee aspect

You have to anticipate thanks to your knowledge

[elfin rock]

i took FO2 for a few hours

then yesterday i tried a boonless heatless run

and everyone was so slow

[flat flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/sanic-the-hedgehob-running-gotta-go-fast-fast-gif-4964355

[shy plinth]

Yeah someone who wasn't used to FO2 asked me "how do I not get hit by spears"

My answer was "don't end up in front of them"

[gaunt fiber]

Oh yeah spears are so deadly

It's flurry extending jab guan yu

[devout quiver]

Shields are real mean too

[steel widget]

I've been struggling hard to do 40 heat, been trying for over 6 hours today, furthest I got was Elysium, it's so damn hard, and I could make the game even harder

(Playing Rama and Guan Yu mostly, they are fun)

[shy plinth]

What's the highest you've cleared before?

[trim karma]

I have a question about the heats

so if I add a heat it clears the rewards

except i've noticed that if i haven't beaten the game under a heat level, it won't clear the rewards for the next level, is that right?

[honest kernel]

uh basicially if you overshoot in heat you get the reward of the lowest heat you cleared and then the next one ect

so if you jump from 0-20 you can get 20 rewards by playing 20 20 times

[shy plinth]

They don't want you to just bump the heat up and farm bloods off meg

So you are always playing for the rewards of the lowest uncleared heat no matter what your gauge is at

[trim karma]

right, so you have to beat the game at heat 1 to get access to rewards at heat 2, correct?

[shy plinth]

If you clear heat 1 on sword and then push it to 2, beat meg, and die to lernie, if you run it back at 2, 3, 10, or 20 you will still not get another blood from meg until you beat hades

And it will count as your heat 2 clear

So you have to beat the game at heat 1+ to get heat 1 rewards, then you have to clear at 2+ to get 2 rewards, etc

[solemn pulsar]

If this was the main concern they should have all the extra rewards explode out of hades when you kill him

Like booooosh

[steel widget]

Tbf, it is 16, but cleared it after 2 tries pretty easily, also have cleared em4 as a fun mini challenge
I enjoy the games when they are hard, which is why I just do it, despite going up gradually might be a "better" option
I just don't really know what kind of builds are evem viable, so I just end up doing random things and seeing what happens

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah 16->40 is a huge jump

[gaunt fiber]

it's not a jump

it's a monka yeet

[jaunty falcon]

I probably did 16->25->32->32 on other weapons->36->40

[steel widget]

🐒

So basically I am monkey and just dived head first into a pit of nails

[mossy zinc]

If you're having fun, you're having fun.

[steel widget]

Oop

[gaunt fiber]

You play Guan Yu

you good

[steel widget]

I just wanted to say tp assassin mini boss is bs

Hate him

[gaunt fiber]

You can kill it in a split second if you summon right before it tp

[steel widget]

Especially when Hades spawns them

[gaunt fiber]

ah

yes

[steel widget]

I've lost death defies to them being spawned off screen, tp insta hit behind me

[amber jetty]

For 32 heat rama, should I start overflowing cup or eternal rose? I think Im gonna do dc2 if that affects anything

[gaunt fiber]

Rama handles DC2 very well, you don't need dio start for that if it's your concern

however it's pretty good damage so it's a very viable one too

same for the eternal rose

[mossy zinc]

And just pick up whichever you see first out of Doom, Lightning, and Hangover on Special.

Weak and Smoldering Air can carry you pretty hard. Life Affirmation, too.

Well, Weak will mainly matter in boss fights.

[amber jetty]

will try that next run, thanks!

[gaunt fiber]

(Real gamers go Arty though)

[amber jetty]

Was doing arty chiron last night, does that count?

[gaunt fiber]

Was talking about Rama specifically but sure

[quartz mantle]

Starting arty makes you immune to getting vorimed and I’ve been vorimed a few too many times starting Aphro on Rama

[mossy zinc]

Why? Just take Passion Dash or Heartbreak Flourish.

[quartz mantle]

Then you are stuck with sad boonless Rama attack and have to deal with whatever else you get

[mossy zinc]

Rama doesn't need an Attack boon in Tartarus.

[gaunt fiber]

[flat flicker]

What is vorimed

[quartz mantle]

When you don’t get the boon you want on your first boon

The way it works is you’re guaranteed to get 3 cores on your first choice but when you reroll you’re not guaranteed to get all cores

So you can end up expending 3 rerolls and still not get the core you want

[gaunt fiber]

Vorime was the runner who played during the AGDQ, during his beo run he did not get the cast despite rolling twice

[quartz mantle]

Yea that’s the origin of the name

[flat flicker]

Thanks

[honest kernel]

sadness

[steel widget]

Damn, I can do 32 heat, but 40 is so much harder

[honest kernel]

40heat is a big jump in difficulty

[steel widget]

I guess so

Also, didn't realise I can't use Battie on Hades

[honest kernel]

you can but you have to unlock it

[steel widget]

Oh in what way unlock it?

Do I have to get higher "friendship" rank with Meg?

[honest kernel]

nah its with hades iirc

better look it up

if you got to hades on 40 youre not far off tho

[steel widget]

I didn't, that was on 32, never tried to use Battie on him before, so I guess I know from now on

[honest kernel]

oh ok

[steel widget]

Went down in heat to see if I could even beat it there

[solemn pulsar]

40 Heat EM4 streak got up to 3

then died

now back up to 2

the one that died was to meg because i'm impatient 🙃

[honest kernel]

🥲

meg is mean

[narrow carbon]

What aspect(s) are you streaking with?

[solemn pulsar]

all of them, is the idea

first streak was zag sword -> zeus -> chiron -> hades (death)

current is zag fists -> lucifer

[amber jetty]

Ty for this btw, worked well especially with customs

Is Arthur ok for 32 heat?

[pseudo kernel]

yeah

[flat flicker]

Don’t take damage control or jury summons and you’ll be alright

You may get elite skulls in tart that give one blue heart per wave and that’s a run killer in Tartarus, but it’s 32 heat it shouldn’t be a sure thing

Man I’ve gotten so much better at hades after two weeks of reading this chat

[pseudo kernel]

and dont use fo2

[flat flicker]

Not afraid of TD3 any more

[amber jetty]

Got these on my hestia run, the absolute agony

[flat flicker]

feels bad man

[amber jetty]

I've been debating Arthur or nemesis tbh, I like Arthur more but it's not really as good

[flat flicker]

those damn skull swarms are stressful

[amber jetty]

Yep

[elfin rock]

i used FO2 at liek 16 heat i think

with arthur

[flat flicker]

I like Arthur for the same reason that I like ganon In smash

[elfin rock]

and DC1+JS1

[flat flicker]

At 16 not quite as overwhelming. You’d have an easier time of it with different pacts and the beauty of hades is there’s infinite loadouts

but FO2 is def sweat with Arthur

[elfin rock]

true true

[nocturne stag]

People in this chat: DOn't use dc or fo with arthur
Me using both of them at max level: Nervous noises

[gaunt fiber]

FO2 is fine

[amber jetty]

Fo2 with arthur is harder but ok from my experience

[nocturne stag]

I'm also not at legally high heat yet, but that's not the point

[amber jetty]

DC at any level on Arthur is torture

I've only done 25 heat Arthur though

[nocturne stag]

em1 is pain with fo2, at least for me it is. ESPECIALLY when all three of them show up and I'm spending 90% of the fight dodging lol

I'm sure if you're GOOD at the game it's not nearly as bad, but it's a pain for me

[gaunt fiber]

It's just a matter of getting used to it

[waxen relic]

I think Arthur has a tendency of dragging people into their own playspeed. For some that speed works at FO0, for some at FO1 and some's speed works just fine at FO2. It's just hard to switch the speed on Arthur imo.

[gaunt fiber]

It's painful on any weapon at first

[nocturne stag]

Funnily enough, I find fo2 em lernie waaaay easier than the furies

[gaunt fiber]

Depends

[amber jetty]

Em2 lernie is super weapon dependant for me

[gaunt fiber]

If you're not on RI yes, because you have a build going

[amber jetty]

Some I demolish others that blue head kills me twice

[gaunt fiber]

Blue head is bad yup

Red circles as a tell on a red biome

Not the best idea

[nocturne stag]

Me trying to fish in Elysium

[gaunt fiber]

But it's a pleasant boss besides head rng

Really forces you to learn how to move

Lernie with RI Guan Yu is quite the experience

[honest kernel]

the orange small heads with the homing shots mess me up more than bluie big head nowdays

worst case: its both

[gaunt fiber]

Purple are infuriating

[copper crown]

The worst part about Lernie’s purple heads is that the waves have weird hitboxes

[quartz mantle]

The worst part is they camp in the lava like little babies

[copper crown]

True but having like, any range on a weapon can deal with that

[honest kernel]

fists 😔

[copper crown]

The uppercut has a bit of range on it, but yeah 😔

[next acorn]

Eris :D

[magic pier]

Huh. I never thought of it that way. That's really interesting to think about. TQ.

[lyric gulch]

Dusa

[next acorn]

I agree

[nocturne stag]

Arthur is good. Seems much less good under DC2 FO2 MM HS for some unknown reason

I've learned that Arthur seems to be too slow to stunlock enemies under FO2. At least not when I was doing it

Which is probably a good chunk of the reason it's not as good fkldsf

[quartz mantle]

for some unknown reason

Bruh you are using damage control on like the weapon that gets affected by it the most

[nocturne stag]

It's almost like that part was supposed to be a joke fdskldkf

I know exactly the reasons why it's doing worse as I stack these things

[quartz mantle]

The age old “can’t understand sarcasm through text” 😔

[nocturne stag]

Mood

[shy plinth]

Fo2 is fine though

Arthur moves at a good pace when you get the damage going

[flat flicker]

If I can do it, so can you

Damage control tho is big oof.

[nocturne stag]

Now I'm doing JS1, EM2, BP, FO2

[shy plinth]

Is this on 32?

[hoary rapids]

dusa is hot

[brave garden]

https://tenor.com/view/sus-suspect-among-us-gif-18663592

[flat flicker]

we shoudl have a speedrunning channel

i cant get below 12:30

https://tenor.com/view/lizard-worm-gotta-go-fast-fast-eat-gif-3563529

[left prism]

speedruning server is on the pinned messages of #self-promotion

[jaunty falcon]

Can ask speedrunning questions in here or #h1-builds-and-combat anyway

[subtle cypress]

cleared my first 32 yesterday

patro turned my SD into 500 hp per room

[flat flicker]

thanks!

[true fable]

arthurs about rhythm

also getting smoldering air and second wind

[nocturne stag]

Arthur is about stacking Aphrodite, Athena, and Dionysus boons to become nearly unkillable. Or at least when I use it it is

[true fable]

yeah thats not a bad way to go

[nocturne stag]

It's also hilarious when you take like 6 damage (exaggerating for effect) off a boss attack from all the damage resists and then heal back to 60% of your 500 hp upon leaving the chamver

[flat flicker]

How much health do you shoot for usually by the time you get to dad

[nocturne stag]

Me personally, somewhere between 250-400 depending on the boons I've got. But sometimes you get heroic life affirmation and you get a LOT of hp

[flat flicker]

feels like i dont often get heroic boons

rare crop, eurydice, trade out an epic

is there any other way?

[left prism]

nope

[flat flicker]

i had one great deadly reversal run with rama where i swapped epic artemis for heroic demeter after getting deadly reversal, that was super big brain of me

but like

thats it

i also tend to take poms from eurydice

is that wrong lol

unless i have like, two boons

[left prism]

depends ig, i mostly take nectar for better chance of duo or better hermes boons, or the upgrade rarity if i already have the hermes boons and feel like gambling it to make it better

[mossy zinc]

200 HP total + Acorn is comfortable if it's not EM4.

That's with HL5 FO2.

Well, "comfortable". Don't step on traps.

[flat flicker]

haha I’ll try

Heightened security’s terrifying to heat given ratio is so bad

[mossy zinc]

200 means you can take 2 hits from the spin after your Acorn is gone. Third hit will kill you.

[flat flicker]

Noted. Thanks! You’re super helpful 🙂

[mossy zinc]

But I really just try to maximize the value I get from every room. I don't look for any particular HP total by the end of the run. I want to enter Lernie with 65 or more HP + SD, that's about it.

Head slams hit for 32.

And if the SD heals to 33 or more HP, even better.

[flat flicker]

To get to 40 for me the most likely path is switching to SD and EM4

scary

[shy plinth]

You need to break your LC4 SD fear

You can do it, it's really not that bad

[flat flicker]

I do

[shy plinth]

And you def don't need EM4 for 40

You don't need EM4 for 50

[flat flicker]

I’ll try some 20ish with lc4 to get the hang of it I think

I can do TD3 now

can do this too

[shy plinth]

You don't need to crank the heat down that much but you could

It's just about tightening up the boss fights

Rooms get easier, you just can't stand in front of hades and mash button until the run ends

[flat flicker]

Ah gotcha

And pray for patty

[shy plinth]

Well sure but you don't need it, again

Just play defensively

[flat flicker]

And if I get Athena, let myself die to get that bonus defiance?

[shy plinth]

Yep

[flat flicker]

And is that a second charge of SD or is that a regular DD

[shy plinth]

Regular dd

[flat flicker]

Roger that

I guess approval process 1 isn’t too bad

lc4

[shy plinth]

Why do you need ap1

[flat flicker]

tryin to figure out what heat id take at 40

[shy plinth]

https://i.imgur.com/nHjX40w.png

If you start here I'd probs go JS2 CF2

Could do DC if weapon calls for it

[flat flicker]

Will likely do Eris first, so yeah

Thanks!

[unique zephyr]

I do HS at 40

I avoid it at 32 but I do it at 40

[shy plinth]

Very reasonable option especially if you're used to it

[unique zephyr]

HS doesn't hurt your build or directly affect timer

you could say it slightly helps timer with losing SD but that is really minor (mainly asphodel tbh)

I try to be careful about JS with TD3, I should get back into this game sometime, been taking a long break doing other stuff

For my 40 clears I did HS JS1 CF2 to add to RH's pact

If my weapon can take DC2 go CF0 for more boons

I will say that for 45 heat AP1 wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, you just have AP1 moments that suck sometimes but I can see AP1 not being the worst at 40 heat. Then again, I was using Rama which doesn't need many specific boons to work

[mossy zinc]

AP1 is fine at 40.

[solemn pulsar]

@mossy zinc my latest heat submission should be zag spear not zag shield

my mistake

[mossy zinc]

Fixed.

[solemn pulsar]

thank you

[plain shuttle]

is it a good idea to use LC4 and SD exclusively (no other heat, maybe EM3) to get a hang of the mechanic?

I struggle to simply keep myself healthy during 32 practices

[true fable]

well

i suppose so

the funny thing about LC4 SD is that it means you get to be lazier in normal rooms

but you kind of have ot bring your A game vs bosses

[plain shuttle]

well, BP2+MM + FO often kick my ass more than once during normal rooms

[true fable]

yeah but thats pretty bad for DDs too

yfeel?

if youre losing 2DDs in a normal room you probably arent winning with DDs either, and likely DDs vs SDs isnt the deciding factor in the success of that run, is what i'm saying

[plain shuttle]

on 16-20 EM3 is usually the biggest killer

it's not super uncommon for me to lose 2DDs there

[true fable]

time to learn the fight

its a hard one

[spice lava]

8-16-32 leads to to a point where everything is a reason to lose your SD during a room

[true fable]

but you can get very consistent at it

[amber jetty]

you can get away with lower LC if you want, I dont like doing lc4 and dont take it for my 32s rn

[spice lava]

but it's made in a way you gradually increase your A game

[plain shuttle]

best result in 16 with EM3 atm is losing one single DD at EM3 with demeter

[true fable]

thats not bad

if you want to go up to 32 you can probably still just run DDs

if youre more comfortable on them

its really going any higher that you want to start running SDs exclusively

[plain shuttle]

what would you do with say, LC2? JS3 is kinda horrible?

[flat flicker]

@shy plinth I finally won a run with lc4!!!

20 heat Achilles spear

[plain shuttle]

I'm not taking RI, HS or FO2+

[true fable]

sounds good

JS2 isnt too bad

HS is honestly kind of fine

but personal preference

FO2 is quite hard

so is RI

as is AP

[amber jetty]

I can send the heats Ive been using for 32, I dont take lc4

[flat flicker]

I find it a way to blow it in the hades fight a lot with those damn jars 😦

[amber jetty]

although enemies do hit hard

[plain shuttle]

yeah FO2, RI are simply not an option

[true fable]

yeah HS is fine 95% of the time

and the other 5% you kind of just die

you also have to relearn asphodel

[plain shuttle]

pray for Athena to give you both +1SD and resist traps

[flat flicker]

FO2 with ranges weapon isn’t quite as good

Ranged *

[plain shuttle]

well I lose A LOT of health to lava on average runs

[true fable]

FO2 is actually better for ranged weapons IMO, since you have more time to react

worse for melee weapons where some animations literally arent reactable

[plain shuttle]

I play FO1 on 16 and didnt find it any different

[spice lava]

HS works with the SD logic like your position on a room is the key to survive whatever if the danger comes from a trap or a foe

[shy plinth]

Grats :)

[true fable]

do we still have the pinned post with a typical 32 heat pact>

[plain shuttle]

yep there still is

[true fable]

hey there it is

[shy plinth]

Yeah

Also nyaa has her guide which is quite consistent

[true fable]

is that one not pinned?

[shy plinth]

And the pin says CF2 is core which I think has become a bit outdated

Nah I see schad's

[true fable]

CF2 core

i think because it seems friendlier to newer players

its one of those things where people more familiar with the game are hurt more by it

same with RI/AP

if you dont take advantage of the mechanics that those pacts inhibit then you by extension arent as affected by them

[plain shuttle]

https://i.imgur.com/xxHiPW3.png

[spice lava]

Shops are more expensive but that's not a direct impact on rooms

[true fable]

looks pretty normal

[plain shuttle]

HL1 + JS1 instead of JS2 maybe?

[true fable]

CF2 kind of sucks

like we've said

but it's up to you

[plain shuttle]

yeah my LC4+SD practice have been fairly abysmal

[twilit orbit]

whats so bad about CF2

[true fable]

I would do CF0 and put those points into HL but that's because I'm pretty confident in bossing

[plain shuttle]

granted I only have about 10 real practice runs

[twilit orbit]

ive always taken it for my 32 runs

[true fable]

buying boons is good

[plain shuttle]

but I havent even made past first half of Elysium once

[true fable]

buying poms is also good

buying health is also pretty good

think that's most of it

oh also

buying well items is pretty good

[twilit orbit]

you can still buy stuff

just less stuff

[true fable]

yeah

[shy plinth]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/668865849079103539/836381687100342272/unknown.png

This is the 32 I recommend

[spice lava]

very less stuff compared to CF0

[true fable]

you get to buy less stuff

thats not very good

[twilit orbit]

just take the alternative free room instead of the shop :^)

[shy plinth]

It's a substantial difference

[twilit orbit]

and save your money for mid shop

[true fable]

its really not rocket science

[twilit orbit]

and run SD so the well DD item isnt horrendously expensive

[true fable]

well its not like i dont know how to run CF2

[plain shuttle]

I cant do TD3

[true fable]

and SDs

[shy plinth]

No other heat tick costs you 40% of anything

[true fable]

ive done plenty of 50 heat

[shy plinth]

Cf is expensive

[true fable]

CF2 sucks

[plain shuttle]

I'm never fast enough to do even sub 5 tart

[shy plinth]

Worth practice for sure to get techniques and pace down

I def recommend watching vods of higher heat runs

Special shout out to tailesque vods

[plain shuttle]

I think my fastest tart is 3:30 ish

[shy plinth]

I learned Rama from those

[plain shuttle]

usually it's in the 4:30 range

[true fable]

Hades is a game where you have a TON of freedom over your build and multiple avenues to scale damage

[shy plinth]

And 32 especially is wide open

So many options there

[true fable]

a LOT of this flexibility is lended by the fact that you can spend money on just about anything you want

[shy plinth]

It tightens up mid 40s but at 32 you can almost do whatever

[true fable]

CF2 cripples your ability to be flexible in the way that you build

[spice lava]

even the companion's choice isn't absolute rocket science :^)

[shy plinth]

CF2 is surprisingly close to ap1

[true fable]

that is my 2 cents

at least with AP1 i can still sell the boon for some money

most of the time

[spice lava]

Bright only giving 2 cents because of CF2

[shy plinth]

People overvalue non-combat heat when they're getting started

[true fable]

LOL

nice one yagg

yeah ive noticed that

just because it doesnt seem to affect you as much

and in truth

[plain shuttle]

https://i.imgur.com/NYi3v6d.png
I think this was what I used on earlier 32 practices

[true fable]

it might not

[plain shuttle]

and I really didnt have a good time

[true fable]

because as i mentioned before

[plain shuttle]

feel like I never made any real progress

[true fable]

you might not be taking full advantage of the things that CF2/RI/AP, etc really hurt

[shy plinth]

Dc2 js2 will make your time way worse

That's not actually easier than td3

[twilit orbit]

dc2 is probably completely fine, he's using eris

[shy plinth]

Js2 is where you don't just add more enemies, it's more waves

[twilit orbit]

lightning + bullet strips shields real fast

[shy plinth]

It's probs fine but it's still time

It's cheap for sure, just not free

[true fable]

TD3 is also a lot of heat which is pretty cool

[plain shuttle]

TD3 lets me drop JS+HL entirely

[shy plinth]

Yeah I mean that pact is doable

[twilit orbit]

i prefer not using TD3 but its probably easier than the other heat options

[spice lava]

AP2 doesn't impact directly the fights, it's fine

[true fable]

LUL

[shy plinth]

Tbh at a certain point of heat playing with speed and precision is kind of necessary anyway

So td3 doesn't hurt as bad once you have the reps in until you start doing ap runs at higher heats

[twilit orbit]

but i like spending time running to fish points

[plain shuttle]

well I guess my problem is keep getting hit

[twilit orbit]

and doing other dumb stuff

[shy plinth]

You can absolutely fish on td3 lol

[twilit orbit]

but what if im bad

[true fable]

well

then there is only one piece of advice

[spice lava]

TD3 isn't smooth with some aspects however

[shy plinth]

Practice

[true fable]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/520688527412035584

[twilit orbit]

i just dont like the pressure of having to meet TD because then if my build is bad or if I get unlucky in styx then im sad

[true fable]

well

[twilit orbit]

whereas with TD2 I will never die to timer ever

its probably better to actually take TD3

[true fable]

if your build is bad

[shy plinth]

Td3 at 32 should not be a loss even with a five sack

[true fable]

you might

[plain shuttle]

TD2 is very obviously super comfortable

[true fable]

want to buy

[twilit orbit]

but i just dont like that feeling

[true fable]

more boons

🙂

[shy plinth]

Hah

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/767956652920930324/879248445158866974/unknown.png

This was a 4 sack

[plain shuttle]

but considering I average at 20min per run

TD3 is tight af

[shy plinth]

There's still plenty of time to do

[true fable]

seriously though, CF0 is really good for build consistency

[shy plinth]

It makes a huge difference

Duos get hit so fast

[spice lava]

I used to fish during runs, never again https://youtu.be/w4B6KRx1b1E

[shy plinth]

WHAT

[spice lava]

the dmg I took after fishing broke something on the timer

[true fable]

lol

its the reverse fishing glitch

[twilit orbit]

i should go and check records for my actual timers

okay so I went back and actually looked, and here are all of my 32 heat runs in order of completion

25:30, 22:30, 24:30, 22:15, 22:45, 18:30, 27:00, 22:00, 17:30, 20:00, 19:30, 20:45, 16:30, 20:30, 18:15, 15:00, 17:30, 17:00, 19:30, 17:45, 22:30, 18:30, 14:30, 20:00

so it looks like im really slow at first

but my times have gotten better the more runs I've completed

though most of these were with TD2 on instead of TD3, even though I did make it under 20 min

[true fable]

hell yeah

[twilit orbit]

i switched to a new file though and my times are awful on that file

since I dont have companion/full mirror/titans blood in my aspects

so I definitely can't do TD3 :^)

i think im averaging like 30 minute clears even on lower heat at the moment

[unique zephyr]

I was scared of TD3 as well but I can attest that it's worth learning, going speedy is fun

[narrow carbon]

I did most of my first 32s with CF2 because I was afraid of HL and I wasn’t making good choices anyway. I switched to CF0 for 40 all aspects though (after joining Discord and reading this same advice)

[elfin rock]

feel free to pause the game when makign a decision on which ddoor to go through

i always take CF2

nearly alwaays free haet imo

[shy plinth]

It is extremely expensive heat, it's just non-combat

No other two points of heat make anything 80% harder

[elfin rock]

i fall down on combat

so less combat = better for me

[shy plinth]

If you have a better build combat is over sooner

[twilit orbit]

RI :^)

[narrow carbon]

When you know exactly which gods, boons and items you’d like to see before even starting a run, CF feels bad, because you aren’t getting what you want/need. If you don’t know what you want (or don’t want much), it feels free

[shy plinth]

Okay yes RI sucks

[twilit orbit]

also i dont think it makes the game 80% harder

thats pretty exaggerated

[shy plinth]

I didn't say that, I said it is two points of heat for an 80% increase

[twilit orbit]

you get 45% less shop items on average

but shop items do not contribute all of your power

[gaunt fiber]

You get used to CF I guess

[twilit orbit]

basically the amount of power loss to your build is 45% of what a shop normally contributes

[gaunt fiber]

You'll prolly skip asphodel and don't find anything useful in Elysium

[spice lava]

could be more % I think

Like the more boons you have the less damaging is UC if you manage to toss an useless boon away

[elfin rock]

when i have CF2 i always save up that money for healing

[twilit orbit]

you can save money by taking LC4!

no need to invest money in healing if you can't heal :^)

[elfin rock]

how do i play

idk how stubborn defiance works

[spice lava]

You basically can die once per room

and when you do Sd gives you 30% of your health back

[twilit orbit]

if you're below 30% its often good to suicide at the end of the room

to have more hp going into the next room

[elfin rock]

only 30% tho?

i often lose a few DDs against hades

[spice lava]

It's not affected by LC so the goal is to reset your hps using SD before entering a new room when you can

[twilit orbit]

buying the touch of styx or whatever its called in the well is also really helpful

[elfin rock]

especially when he's at FO2

[twilit orbit]

and seeing patty is also really helpful

you have to get good at boss fights

[elfin rock]

i see

ill practice a bit with SD tomorrow then

[twilit orbit]

basically with SD, damage doesnt stick to you at all between rooms, but you only have 1 SD to beat bosses

oh here are some tricks

if you have a heart in the styx shop, buy it right before fighting hades

instead of immediately

[spice lava]

Patty with SD gives back 50% health when you die instead of refilling your missing DD's

[twilit orbit]

also if you have an athena boon

[spice lava]

so 80% health back total during 15 rooms

[twilit orbit]

die intentionally before you pick it up

athena can give you a regular DD if you lose your SD charge before taking her boon

which means that you can potentially enter the hades fight with a SD charge and a regular DD as backup

its also easy to suicide in asphodel and in some elysium rooms, because even after the fight you can interact with the lava/respawning bombs to kill yourself

but in other rooms you will have to intentionally die to enemies before you kill them all

[elfin rock]

oo nice

thanks everyone

[twilit orbit]

that's basically how you use SD
the most important thing is practicing the elysium and styx boss fights so that you can do them without taking too much damage

acorn is probably the most important thing here because it makes the boss fights a lot more lenient and makes it so that you dont get one shot by hades because you started the fight at 30% hp

[spice lava]

Could have been way better but well https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/807672625739858000/879455936371118100/unknown.png

Next step is 50 I guess 😩

[honest kernel]

you can do it

[spice lava]

Idk, Zeus still feels like driving without a licence

[twilit orbit]

why is that zeus clear time so weird

it has an extra digit compared to every other clear time

[spice lava]

you mean the best time?

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah that's strange

Never seen that before

[spice lava]

I never understood how it happened

[jaunty falcon]

I've seen times to one decimal place before

[honest kernel]

damn

[next acorn]

Hacker confirmed

[true fable]

you do get used to CF

but the more you get used to it the more you realize how much it sucks

weird time displays are due to number truncation in this game

same thing with the PBs that are like 8:xx.1 or something like that

[elfin rock]

JS1 is still ok with TD3 imo

[jaunty falcon]

It's when you start combining JS with CP, DC and BP, and eventually EM4

[spice lava]

CF2 = 270 obsession 👀

[flat flicker]

woooooooo 40 appreciate yall

[shy plinth]

Oh hell yeah

Grats @flat flicker

That's a great run

[flat flicker]

Didn’t lose the stubborn defiance to dad 🙂

I mean mario kart gets easy if you have a Star the whole time lol

Athena call smoldering is usually pretty reliable

[shy plinth]

It works but 40 is still tough

The boss fights are the hard part of LC4 but you did very well

And smoldering air is a great help of course 😉

[steel widget]

Choked on Hades at heat 40, but it's progress

[true fable]

any progress is progress

you got it next time

[devout quiver]

You made it to Hades, so its only a matter of time now

[flat flicker]

you got this

[flat flicker]

Wooooot just beat 40 on Rama

[plain shuttle]

didnt even make it out of Asphodel going back to LC4

and dropping to LC2 adding HL+JS sucks more than I thought

[flat flicker]

HL and LC I’ve found work best when you commit to one or the other - LC2 and HL2 is way harder than HL4 or LC4 in my limited experience of discovering LC4 isn’t so bad

[plain shuttle]

JS+HL+FO is just a nasty combo that can get you even you are careful

and I'm in no way fast enough to handle TD3 nor consistent enough to do LC4

[flat flicker]

I did a bunch of 20 heat runs with lc4 and td3 enabled, would recommend the same for you so you can get a feel for it. Also note that TD3 is far less scary when FO2 is on since bad guys spawn in faster

I don’t take JS if possible - slows me down since more bad guys to kill

[steel widget]

Let's go Lando

[flat flicker]

Feels good man

Had 4 health left vs Meg

And like eight seconds

Heart rend 🥰

[icy sail]

I just finished a 32-heat eris rail run, it's the easiest thus far but definitely needed the boons to make it work as well as it did

never realised the dmg increase could be that much

[plain shuttle]

I need to get off this damn habit of spam dashing

[next acorn]

s a m e

[glass blade]

Just did 32 heat :)

Eris run with cluster bomb

[honest kernel]

nice

[quartz spade]

What pact is good for 40 heat Zeus shield

Which doesn’t involve 5 min deadline

I’m not too fast with Zeus shield

[quartz mantle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/459479648603078658/879708820161572874/image0.png

Something like this could work

You’ll have to deal with AP1 but it’s pretty fine since TD2 is pretty forgiving

[spice lava]

AP1 is fine if you still have the entire mirror

[quartz mantle]

Yea having rerolls makes it not that big of an issue

The only problem becomes hammers but just like get the hammer you want easy

[spice lava]

Charged shot is cool as well if they're used to the modified bull rush

[quartz mantle]

You pretty much just want explosive return

But it’s not necessary

Especially with only JS2 CP0 TD2

[spice lava]

AP1 can also be replaced by CF2

But I know you don't like it 😄

[honest kernel]

@mossy zinc we were discussing about modded high heat in the Speedrunning Discord, and in the recent addition of the modpack being allowed in the speedrun leaderboards, the possibility of having a modded section for the high heat spreadsheet was brought up.

Pinging you because, last I recall, you were one of the owners of the spreadsheet

And also writing it here to bring up the modded stuff in this channel

[mossy zinc]

m the owner of the spreadsheet, @daring hedge is an editor, and @shy plinth is our editor/tech wizard/hat.

We originally created the leaderboard for the high heat community in this server. Because of that, my top priority has always been that it's accessible to everyone here who plays the game, and that entails not requiring any mods. We've allowed mods but only insofar as they don't affect gameplay during the run.

We've grown somewhat beyond that with a pin in the high heat channel in the speedrun server and a Chinese translation of the leaderboard for the Chinese Hades community. Nevertheless, the leaderboard still must meet the requirement of being accessible to the community here.

That said, I don't see anything speaking against a modded side category if there's enough interest to warrant a separate category. My only two concerns are (1) that modded high heat doesn't de facto replace vanilla high heat as the primary category and (2) that SGG is okay with a modded category being added the leaderboard, since they were kind enough to allow us to use this channel as essentially our main hub for competitive high heat and leaderboard discussion and everything.

[flat flicker]

ooo mod it so every enemy is a kamikaze baby chariot

or so you get every boon from one god

grab that beowulf and Demeter and winter soldier that high heat idk

I don’t know how feasible any of this is because console but you got gears turning

[honest kernel]

... What I should have specified by "modded" was an amalgam of Quality of Life changes designed to reduce the randomness in runs.

[mossy zinc]

@solemn pulsar actually made a mod for me that makes every boon that you find a Lady Aphrodite. I still haven't been emotionally ready to try it out. Lady Aphrodite agreed that it might be too much for my heart, she said I might explode.

[shy plinth]

I believe it's a specific mod pack right

[honest kernel]

Indeed.

[flat flicker]

you got this little godling lets go break some hearts

[mossy zinc]

No, I understand. I know the modded category for speedruns, and we'd obviously have to decide on a ruleset for high heat modded anyway that's not necessarily the same as for speedruns.

[honest kernel]

I was talking to Lando here

[mossy zinc]

Ah lol.

[flat flicker]

wait i know the mod i want. one where the voice of dad is replaced with the james woods version from hercules

[honest kernel]

But yeah, I understand that this was made for this community specifically.

[flat flicker]

i have no idea what's possible with mods and got excited lol

[honest kernel]

Pretty sure there's a Hades Modded discord, if you want to check that out

[flat flicker]

i def did go off topic tho lol my bad

i mean i play on switch and im not willing to jank it up to put mods on it 😦 nintendo doesnt take kindly to that

[mossy zinc]

There's also the logistical concern that we have a lot of sheets on the spreadsheet already.

[flat flicker]

but all kamikaze chariot %

is that doable

i dont know

wheres this modded hades discord

?

[rich crane]

Pinned in #self-promotion

[mossy zinc]

One potential solution might simply be to make a separate spreadsheet for modded high heat.

Not saying that's what we should do, just throwing it out there.

[flat flicker]

modded is so broad though

unless theres a specific mod u mean?

[quartz mantle]

It would be a specific modpack similar to speedruns I assume

[mossy zinc]

The category would use a specific modpack with a specific ruleset applied, yes.

[honest kernel]

It likely just goes to the same logistical problems as you mentioned. Don't think it's that good of an idea, and is likely redundant with the leaderboards anyways.

But having a separate tab for it would be too far. Maybe just a column, like the ones in "Seeding ?", "Challenge ?"

Could prove to be sufficient

[flat flicker]

maybe modded sheet separate from unmodded

@mossy zinc i'd like to see your all aphro speedrun tho

[honest kernel]

Since one could do a modded run of any of the category tabs

Kinda like if they were to seed it or not

This idea could use more discussion, honestly. And I am a little bit too tired to do it now oops

[shy plinth]

As of right now I suggest including it in the notes if anyone wants to submit modded runs

[mossy zinc]

That would confound modded with vanilla on the leaderboard. We're definitely not doing that. Whatever we're doing for a modded category mustn't affect the vanilla leaderboards.

[shy plinth]

I'll leave it up to Nyaanyaa to figure out what to do about that

I can easily split them out, add a tab, or add a column

[honest kernel]

Thus, the conflict. If the interest of the main spreadsheet is to remain vanilla, then not much can be done to add existing runs that are modded.

Hmm

[mossy zinc]

Any modded run now that affects the run with mods that aren't cosmetic is ineligible for the leaderboard, whether it's written in the notes that the run is modded or not.

[flat flicker]

would using a controller with back paddles count as mods

(i know silly q but idk the etiquette and wanna play fair)

[mossy zinc]

If you confound the two, you're making the board de facto modded-only with console players at a disadvantage.

[honest kernel]

Modifications imply alterations of the game files

[mossy zinc]

Much like confounding unseeded and seeded in Early Access made the board de facto seeded-only.

There were a few unseeded runs here and there, but seeded just gave you a huge advantage.

[quartz mantle]

I feel like a second leaderboard might be the move with this

[honest kernel]

If anything, yeah

Which is probably redundant with the speedrun.com leaderboards

Oh well

[quartz mantle]

There’s a lot of categories in the current leaderboard that could also have a modded variant

If we want to have a modded presence on the high heat leaderboard focused on clears and not speed it would make sense to have a second leaderboard

[honest kernel]

Nonetheless, thanks for the clarification, Nyaa

[shy plinth]

It is easy enough to do to add a single checkbox that splits out all the runs

[mossy zinc]

My suggestion is to decide on one ruleset for all modded high heat runs, and if there's need for more modded categories, we can cross that bridge when we get there.

[shy plinth]

But agree that the SGG approval is also important in the official disc

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[honest kernel]

Intent is the decider here, yeah

Or the purpose of the spreadsheet, rather

bleh, words are hard

[solemn pulsar]

RNG Adjustments:

• Satyr Sack always found in two tunnels
• The first boon you get in a run will have all 4 core (Strike, Flourish, Shot/Flare, and Dash) boons available without having to reroll
• You can select a "preferred" hammer for each of the 24 aspects, and the first hammer you come across will always contain this hammer and nothing else.
• The Barge of Death, Tiny Vermin, and Asterius miniboss encounters are removed from the game.
• Fountain rooms have a visual indicator before you enter them, so that you can always know if you're selecting or skipping one.
• Thanatos encounters can be toggled on and off with a mod setting, for Ingame Time or Real Time optimized play.

These are the RNG adjustments currently made in the speedrunning rulesets. Basically the sheet owners will approve/veto/modify any of these they want for an "official" high heat ruleset, and we can add it to the modpack to be easy to use.
Minibosses can be customized to whatever is wanted

[mossy zinc]

So, for anyone interested in this: what we've decided is that we'll fork a modded high heat leaderboard for the speedrun server, and discussion for a ruleset is taking place over there now.

The high heat leaderboard that we have now and that's pinned here will remain vanilla.

[flat flicker]

Why barge of death?

[amber jetty]

It's an auto scroller time loss that's just rng whether you get it or not

[gaunt fiber]

Hm

Barge is good in high heat

But that's the mod so

[flat flicker]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking

The MM barge is significantly faster

[solemn pulsar]

yeah we're thinking of tweaks to make

anything that makes it harder than what's listed above would probably be allowed as an option

"harder" so like re-adding barge would be ok probably

[quartz spade]

I’ll give this a go

Thanks!

[quartz mantle]

Np and gl

[unreal palm]

So do I get special dialogue max heat

With

[jaunty falcon]

No

[copper crown]

It should just open with Hades laughing hysterically

[flat flicker]

Should switch hades to the Hercules one for 64 heat just because

[bronze rapids]

officially part of the "killed myself to refresh my nonexistent SD" club

[shy plinth]

Welcome. We have cookies

[flat flicker]

I lost an athena defiance once doing that

Feels bad man

[ripe ermine]

Same. I was very upset with myself

[flat flicker]

Back to the mods thing for a sec - steam only or will game pass version work?

[jaunty falcon]

Pretty sure you can only get them on Steam atm, I might be wrong

You can't get them on switch, I'd assume the same applies for xbox

[flat flicker]

PC game pass if that changes the calculus

[jaunty falcon]

Assuming you have access to game files and a way to download a mod folder, I don't see why not

[solemn pulsar]

You can’t yet

Game pass pc files are locked down hard

[next marsh]

i'm sure this has been discussed already, but should there be a category on the leaderboard for controller/kb+m/other stuff?

[honest kernel]

I don't think thats necessary

[undone tartan]

What cast do people use for mid-high heat Beowulf

[flat flicker]

Aphro, Poseidon

Aphro hits harder, Poseidon opens up mirage shot (also splash dash)

[undone tartan]

Ok cool thanks

[amber jetty]

Dio is fun for very big damage too on stygian soul

Dio is fun for very big damage too on stygian soul

[undone tartan]

Eww why Stygian? Can’t I just easily pick up my bloodstones?

[pseudo kernel]

Festive fog stays there for a while after you shoot them so picking up your casts will be harder

[undone tartan]

Like maybe it’s a tiny bit slower on infernal with dio but you lose all of the burst damage

[amber jetty]

Chaos casts give it back

[undone tartan]

Yeah but I wouldn’t want to rely on that

[amber jetty]

And infernal on trippy flare is actually slower past the first one

The fog stays for more than 3 secs

[undone tartan]

I only use Stygian soul for Crystal beam

[amber jetty]

It's better than you'd expect, and Beowulf benefits from chaos a ton regardless like most cast builds do

[next acorn]

Stygian replenishes in half the time it takes for the fog to go away

waiting for Infernal takes forever

[undone tartan]

Alright fair enough

[next acorn]

it's just a high roll because you really need an extra cast from chaos for it to be good

[undone tartan]

Is that viable for higher heats though? Or maybe it’s viable but is it a lot worse?

[quartz mantle]

That's why people just don't run dio beo

You're better off doing Passion/Flood flare beo at higher heats

Flood is comfy and big aoe with easier access to mirage but Passion is stronger and only needs 2 boons to function really well

Flood flare with Mirage is better but once you get to higher heats and take like AP2 or RI2 it gets really hard to get a duo

Passion Flare really only also needs Snow Burst and Killing Freeze and you're set

KF is optional too

But for anything under 50 you can kinda do whatever

Dio beo just kinda sucky cause you're relying on Chaos to function properly

[amber jetty]

But if you get it it's funny!

[next acorn]

But then you go ten runs stuck in the Chaos corner and are sad

and wonder why am I not playing flood flare

[amber jetty]

Very true

I also don't like ice wine on it, takes too long to proc

[next acorn]

and then you finally get an extra cast stone and then die bc your bad

[quartz mantle]

Ice Wine is literally detrimental lol

it delays your cast explosion

[amber jetty]

Yeah, enemies just get booted out of the way by the time it goes off and you're left staring at them

[next acorn]

Scint on the other hand

[amber jetty]

Unless charged shot but by then you're just praying for rng heaven

[shy plinth]

Dio Beo is huge damage

The upside is so significant if you get it, it's just more variant since you are dependent on chaos or the mythical artemis legendary

[next acorn]

fully loaded beo

[severe forge]

what fist aspect for a 32heat run?

[amber jetty]

Demeter

[shy plinth]

Yep Demeter ME

[mossy zinc]

Zag Fists are great, too.

Stacking Dodge chance with the Lambent Plume can certainly carry a run through high heat.

[severe forge]

if i get 50% dodge chance do i actually dodge 1 out of 2 attacks

stacked dodge chance in an lower heat run and it almost didnt dodeg anything

[mossy zinc]

Dodge chance stacks additively, so yes, with 50% dodge chance, you'll dodge 50% of all incoming attacks.

[quartz mantle]

You wanna run Ruthless Reflex and get any Hermes boons that give dodge like Greater Evasion or Second Wind

[mossy zinc]

You can get it up to 100% even.

[severe forge]

100% so im basically invincible

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[quartz mantle]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Second Wind buff can even stack with itself right

[mossy zinc]

It can't.

[quartz mantle]

This is so sad

[severe forge]

i saw an old Haelian video where he stacked dodge and it wasnt to great. i think he got over 100% but only dodged once in a while

[amber jetty]

with ruthless reflex you can get it super high

[quartz mantle]

The idea is you proc ruthless reflex buff off of an attack and then not care about actively dodging attacks cause your dodge chance just works that problem out for you

[severe forge]

ok gonna try it. i'll be back with the results later

[worthy cipher]

What are people building around Apect of Achilles? I hear buzz, but it isn't coming together for me?

[solemn pulsar]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1125263066?t=00h24m17s works fine

this was a maxed out dodge build without ruthless reflex i picked up, EM4 fight at 40 heat

98.5% dodge i think

for every 10 seconds after a call, at least

[shy plinth]

Hunting blades and crystal clarity are common, also flurry jab just makes everything better

[severe forge]

oh ok i just begun the build still in tartarus

[worthy cipher]

Oh, just work the cast bonus and cheese it with things with a long cast time

Yeah I wasn't thinking about cast and got some bad hammers.

[shy plinth]

I usually keepsake artemis for attack and then look for ares or demeter

Whichever comes up first

Spear also just does a bunch of damage so sometimes you can get heart rend with aph special and poke enemies

Flurry jab is still insane

[severe forge]

I forgot i had the lambet pume so swapped it in asphodel-_-

[nocturne stag]

That's what we call an oof, but a relatable oof

[severe forge]

got a great start with zeus att and epic demeter special. welp all i can do is restart

[shy plinth]

On achilles?

Oh fists

Why would you restart?

[severe forge]

i dont know relised now thats a strong build in general

[flat flicker]

Keep going!!!!!

You got this!!!

[severe forge]

to late should have kept going

[flat flicker]

damn

[flat flicker]

This was a great tip. Gonna maybe try 40 today w it

[mossy zinc]

What you're talking about is that Hades's spin attack would still hit him every time. It was undodgeable at the time in Early Access. They changed (fixed?) that since.

[severe forge]

oh ok will use the lambet pume alot more now. its pretty fun to use

[undone tartan]

If I wanted to push my heat past 35, where do I start putting it? Right now I just did a 34 heat run with:
HL4, LC4, CF2, EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO1, and TD3.
Beyond adding one more HL to get to HL5, I’m not sure where to go next. I’d rather not touch FO2 if possible, I’d add DC if my weapon allowed but for a weapon like Beo that’s not really an option. Is it time to go into Jury Summons? Or RI2? I really do not know

[honest kernel]

dont touch ri2 its hard

go into js then yea

[shy plinth]

FO2 is pretty important to learn but you don't need it right away

Gonna be hard to shy away from it north of 40 though

[quartz mantle]

Just touch FO2

It's so worth

3 heat for something you can adapt and get used to

[undone tartan]

Idk, even if you’re used to FO2 it’s still gonna make everything way way harder

Yeah there’s a certain point where it’s definitely worth it but I don’t think that point is anywhere below 40

[next acorn]

Anything you have to add at 40 is going to make everything way herder

[undone tartan]

So I should add Jury Summons?

[quartz mantle]

idk man I'd rather deal with FO2 JS0 than FO1 JS3

[solar maple]

can definitely take some JS on beo I think

[undone tartan]

Maybe. But if I only need to get to 36 then I’m way better with HL5 FO1 JS1 than HL3 FO2 JS0

[solar maple]

beo is fast and has great aoe, it's one of the best at powering though JS rooms

[quartz mantle]

Oh it's beo

yea that works

[solar maple]

well they said "for a weapon like beo" so I assume that's what they are doing

[undone tartan]

How about getting Rama over 37 heat (since I can use DC2 for Rama)?

Rama and Beo are the only weapons I’m trying to take over 34 right now

[quartz mantle]

Both of those aspects work well against JS

Beo has big aoe and Rama has technically unlimited aoe

[solar maple]

from what you said the main next ones to put on are: FO2, HS, some amount of JS, DC (depending on aspect), then ap1

[quartz mantle]

I'd add EM4 to beo before AP1

personally

Rama can get away with AP1 easier cause it needs like

[solar maple]

em4 is pretty juicy

[quartz mantle]

1 maybe 2 boons

[amber jetty]

I'd do fo2, once you get used to it it's pretty bearable although I haven't gone past 32 yet

[solar maple]

I would absolutely not touch RI until higher than 50 heat, especially on beo

[undone tartan]

EM4 is a terrible idea if you are above 20 heat and below 40 heat

[solar maple]

beo players are em4 addicts

[quartz mantle]

Not if you have a bit metal plate in front of your face

[undone tartan]

I used to use FO2 but removing it has made the entire game so much more manageable

[flat flicker]

i did a bunch of FO2 TD3 runs to get a feel for both

[quartz mantle]

I pretty much just never turn it off

Having it as a constant helps with dealing with it

[undone tartan]

I mean TD3 is actually free unless you’re at very high heat (where it’s not free but kinda necessary)

[flat flicker]

it wasnt at first, but i got there lol

[undone tartan]

Kinda, but it still makes avoiding many attacks way way harder and in general makes every single enemy and boss much more difficult regardless of if you’re used to it

[quartz mantle]

Yea but it's also 3 heat

lol

Like that's so much

[undone tartan]

I don’t think it’s as worth it as you think it is

[quartz mantle]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

[undone tartan]

Idc how used to it you think you are, FO2 makes literally everything way way harder

[quartz mantle]

That's kinda like

the point of heat

Is making the game harder

You can only go so far without making the game harder

[undone tartan]

Yes, but it does that a lot more than other heat

Whatever

[quartz mantle]

AP2 is the same amount of heat and I'm not even running that at 50 lol

Sure it's harder than 3 tiers of LC or HL (or JS for Beo and Rama) but it's definitely better than any tier of RI or AP (or CF imo)

[flat flicker]

its personal preference

32+heat is supposed to be hard

[solemn pulsar]

nah it's not preference. Supergiant made this channel to see if the community could figure out the objectively optimal pacts for each aspect at each heat level. They knew and just wanted to see if we could deduce it

it quickly devolved into tribal dispute and arguments, and supergiant stepped away, never to return

the legends tell that one day, amir will descend from the heavens and deliver the Truth of CF0, vindicating us for all time

[elfin rock]

CF0 is stupid imo

im a firm CF2 believer

[jaunty falcon]

Enjoy having 0 boons

And 0 health

[quartz mantle]

I will fight you

[elfin rock]

wow

[quartz mantle]

This is a personal attack

on me

[jaunty falcon]

Bro

[elfin rock]

if u have the other one from olympian favour

[jaunty falcon]

Why you paying 270 gold for common rav will

[elfin rock]

u'll have more than enough boons

take fated authority if ur worried about not getting enough boons

whatever money u do get

[jaunty falcon]

But then you have no build

[elfin rock]

probs very little

dump it in helaht

u will tho

[quartz mantle]

Man imagine taking RI1 but worse

[mossy zinc]

If I wanted to push my heat past 35, where do I start putting it?
Into practice.

[elfin rock]

lol

[mossy zinc]

RI is good practice.

[jaunty falcon]

Okay… i dont hate CF2 that much lmao

[quartz mantle]

RI makes you lose dark foresight which is 40% less boons, poms, gold and health

CF2 makes all your boons, poms, and health 80% more expensive

Not to mention expensive well items

[elfin rock]

i rarely take shop aanyway

[quartz mantle]

Because you play on CF2

[elfin rock]

no

[quartz mantle]

and your boons are 270 gold which is a scam

[elfin rock]

i take it sometimes

[jaunty falcon]

And reroll

[mossy zinc]

RI and CF2 are both good practice.

[undone tartan]

Nyaa I have 380 hours in Hades but where the hell do I put that extra heat lmao

[quartz mantle]

No I simply want every boon all the time

[undone tartan]

I always do CF2 past 24ish heat

[elfin rock]

maybe u could try getting builds which require slightly less boons?

[quartz mantle]

No

I refuse

[elfin rock]

ur loss then

[mossy zinc]

380 hours amounts to 3.8 points of Heat.. maybe.

[quartz mantle]

Well I mean I do play passion flare beo which takes approximately 3 boons but like

More

[elfin rock]

who needs shop then

[mossy zinc]

4 boons.

[elfin rock]

just get poms

[jaunty falcon]

And a helluva lotta poms

[quartz mantle]

God imagine paying 180 for a pom

literally could never be me

ever

[undone tartan]

Do you actually put on FO2 before CF2??

[quartz mantle]

Man I put DC2 on before CF2 lmao

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/782785382244155414/840060406940565514/unknown.png

[undone tartan]

Well DC2 is borderline free on some aspects and life-ruining on others so that’s a bad example

[quartz mantle]

No on Beo

[mossy zinc]

If you lose at 37 Heat or whatever, it's not because of your pact. If you want to push higher, just try everything and get in more practice.

[undone tartan]

Ok that’s actually insane. Not like impressive insane, like you are a crazy person insane

[quartz mantle]

Yes

I know

[mossy zinc]

You need to make your own experiences with pacts.

[undone tartan]

No ofc not, but the pact really matters at that high of a heat and if I was just looking for suggestions since I had no idea where to go after 35/37 (depending on is I can use DC2 or not)

[twin shadow]

Wait i thought fo was the jazz

[quartz mantle]

It is

It's 6 heat

[mossy zinc]

I don't think the pact matters too much at 37.

So long as you avoid RI4.

And maybe don't do stuff like DC2 Excalibur.

[undone tartan]

I wasn’t planning on it

[mossy zinc]

I think a better way of looking at it is find the right strategy for your pact.

Instead of trying to find the right pact for your strategy.

If that makes sense?

[undone tartan]

But like obviously some pacts are gonna make my run a lot harder than others. FO2 EM4 CP2 is gonna be way way harder than a JS3 LC4 FO1 EM3

[mossy zinc]

Not necessarily.

[undone tartan]

EM4, HL5, and FO2 is harder than the 34 heat run I just did

[mossy zinc]

Sure, if you try the same strategy it might be.

[undone tartan]

Nah like I don’t know if I could beat that with any aspect or build rn

[flat flicker]

Go RI2 then and if it doesn’t work try AP2 or something

[mossy zinc]

You could do that and build for crazy dodge chance like Eris Bunny likes to do and just go in fully invincible or with at the very least ridiculously high eHP.

[flat flicker]

The point being, you’ve already done all the prep work you can possibly do and you’re falling into analysis paralysis

Happened to me too

Gotta just get out there

Different pacts are harder for different people

[mossy zinc]

Hence my point that you should focus on your strategy for your pact moreso than your pact for your strategy.

[undone tartan]

Whatever I’ll figure it out ig, I just was curious if anyone could advise on how to get a few extra heat since I felt like the jump from 35/37 to 36/38 (depending on if you can run DC2) was a very difficult one because every remaining pact felt way harder

[flat flicker]

Try this: set your pact to 63 heat first, then start taking stuff off based on what you think would suck the most til you hit 40, then the second you get to 40, start your run, don’t think about it

[mossy zinc]

lol

The time you spend doing that, you could have probably finished 40 Heat already with just any pact.

Oh you meant just adjust the pact from max Heat.

[flat flicker]

Yeah

[mossy zinc]

For some reason I read it as do 63 Heat runs, take something off, then do 62 or whatever, etc. lol.

[flat flicker]

Hahaha could do that too

[amber jetty]

same lmao

[mossy zinc]

"Some reason" probably being it's almost 12 a.m.

[flat flicker]

I edited it to make it more clear

What’s that emoji btw @mossy zinc

[mossy zinc]

But where do you go?

That's Lady Aphrodite.

[flat flicker]

Word

[mossy zinc]

It's from her Twitch channel.

[flat flicker]

Gotcha

[mossy zinc]

https://www.twitch.tv/courtenberry

[flat flicker]

Haha got it

Will damage control cripple Achilles spear

Guess we’ll find out via the max pact method

[mossy zinc]

Not really.

Unless you try to speedrun.

And some Cast builds would be hurt.

[flat flicker]

40 heat attempt, speedrun will come eventually

I enjoy high heat more than speedruns too much RNG

and carpal tunnel

😦

[mossy zinc]

Depends on your goals in both cases.

You just get more immediate feedback when you make mistakes in high heat.

[flat flicker]

Right now it’s 40 heat Achilles, figure out the next one another time

[amber jetty]

Its fine for hunting blades/flurry jab

[flat flicker]

Got both lol

Wait no just regular blades rn

[devout quiver]

crystal clarity doesnt mind DC

[unique zephyr]

As Nyaanyaa said, if your pact isn't completely insane then the issue is not fine tuning the pact so much as rising up to the skill needed. I am prone to analysis paralysis as well but at some point I had to realize that I could not avoid doing practice to get used to stuff like FO2 and HS

I personally like pacts like FO2 and HS which can be solved by practice and improving skill over stuff that ruins builds whenever possible

When learning FO2 I did die a lot, very early.

But it was worth it

I just kept it on for every run for the next like 20+ hours or so

[flat flicker]

Damn, blew it to dad. Stupidly hit Meg button too early and hunting blades isn’t as good as meme beams

[elfin rock]

when learning FO2 just have fun

[flat flicker]

Needed that legendary