more like I try to clear without duo
#h1-high-heat-strategies
gaunt fiber
true fable
what do you do vs bad bp witch rooms
mossy zinc
But the first few chambers in Asphodel can be hard without Deflect.
gaunt fiber
get charged skewer and you're good
mossy zinc
Heart Rend is just the cherry on top. The two Flourishes alone can already do all the work.
- any % Attack.
mossy zinc
what do you do vs bad bp witch rooms
Special has a massive AOE that destroys projectiles.
true fable
like whats your gameplan if you enter a cloner seeker room with just deadly flourish
hmm
ok
mossy zinc
Could also try Dusa or maybe Skelly for consistency.
gaunt fiber
cloner seeker is fate
true fable
accept, death
mossy zinc
I don't recommend DC until you have to take it.
true fable
do you take max HL
mossy zinc
At 40+ yes.
true fable
before dc2?
mossy zinc
Yes.
gaunt fiber
most of the time it's not one hit to be fair
true fable
why not make that hit a big one
gaunt fiber
more like 2
mossy zinc
Lernie can often kill you in 2 hits lol.
true fable
very cool
true fable
maths
gaunt fiber
until you get barraged to death lol
true fable
whatever happened to the weekly challenge runs btw
i joined after they stopped so i never got a chance to do one
mossy zinc
They don't have time to come up with them anymore.
true fable
fair enough
mossy zinc
Tbh they started as us just doing our own challenges and HeartfulPeach then making theirs weekly and a little bit more official.
So we're still doing that.
true fable
its just become ri4 every week now
mossy zinc
Lmao
clever otter
you can still do the weekly challenges if you haven't already though, the site with all of them is still pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat. just don't ping tiank about it :]
true fable
for sure! have definitely checked some of them out
clever otter
they might be easy if you do really high heat though lol
true fable
just got distracted haha
mossy zinc
Boonless was one of the first challenge runs we did. So that one survived and is still going strong.
At first it was just "no core boons".
mossy zinc
Way easier than sword 40. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/784412893243244554/Hades_1206.png?width=791&height=445
Timed out at Hades in a previous run. I think God's Pride is probably the better choice on Rama over God's Legacy. You only really need a good Attack, Divine Dash, and any Call. God's Legacy makes it harder to get DDs from Lady Athena, and a better chance for an Epic Attack, Special, or Call would help a lot.
@daring hedge which would you add first out of AP and RI?
Although, I guess I could just add both.
mossy zinc
@halcyon frost what aspect are you trying to do 40 with?
halcyon frost
I am trying Nemesis Arty on Sword, Hunting blades on achilles or arty skewer on guan yu with spear, Zag arty attack build or Zeus Special & poseidondash and duo for Chaos with shield, Artemis Chiron or Aprho Rama on Bow, merciful end Zag or Full Athena with gilgamesh for Fists and lastly The Speedrun Eris build on rifle. I have also tried the Dio Attack and a bunch of Duos lucifer thing but I think it's too RNG dependant to get going.
All of these I have tried like twice at least it has to have been like 40 ish attempts to beat 40 heat by now.
@mossy zinc
mossy zinc
I think you're best off staying with one aspect that you're good with.
Sword at 40 is pretty hard, so I would take other weapons over that.
halcyon frost
Well, maybe I shouldn't be, but I am using dark regeneration and therefore the 20% increase is really alluring, especially because I get so much darkness after every boss fight.
solemn pulsar
my previous record with all weapons was 32 heat, did 40 heat on bow and rail last night, first try on each, feels good
halcyon frost
that's epic
solemn pulsar
eris was disturbingly easy
halcyon frost
alright now I feel slightly inadequate.
Eris is pretty much the only rifle I tried this with.
solemn pulsar
i basically just played it like a low heat speedrun and got through fine? I put on stubborn expecting to need it, but I think I would have squeaked by with DDs, even with 100% LC.
bow was much harder, but rama-hangover special cheesed my way through
halcyon frost
I think part of the touble I am having comes from playing on hell mode for my high heat attempts and personal liability makes spreaders in elysium real scary
solemn pulsar
yeah that'd make things more difficult. my elysium strategy with rama was to spam special until everyone was poisoned+damage sharing, then run away and shoot 1 enemy away from the pack to kill everyone else haha
waxen relic
did the mirror-thing after all, Charged Shot was key as well as not messing up as much, though i still messed up plenty https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/784429433880051742/20201204145847_1.jpg
mossy zinc
Nice! Congratulations! Submit it to the leaderboard, nice to see more RI4 runs. 
@halcyon frost LC4 with Stubborn Defiance is standard for 40+. I'd definitely look into that. That's 4 Heat you can take off something else.
mossy zinc
. . . I forgot to switch OBS from Halo to Hades, so the 46 Rama isn't recorded. 
proud jay
Timed out at Hades in a previous run. I think God's Pride is probably the better...
I'm convinced that god's pride is better in general. Epic hermes and chaos boons are a big deal
ripe crane
Same. I turn on legacy if I'm going for something that needs a duo to function like merciful end or hunting blades. Otherwise I think the consistency of just having all your boons be better is a lot more beneficial.
mossy zinc
Hmmm. I start my runs with Eternal Rose almost always. Her Duo Boons are really strong.
I feel like my runs have been better since I switched to Legacy.
I got full audio for my 46 Heat run, though, so that should be fine, right?
You can't see it, but you can hear it. 
Ironically, I was also listening to the Halo soundtrack in that run . . .
@proud jay did you make it with Guan Yu in your new streak yet?
proud jay
I have like 50% winrate with GY
But it should get better since i feel like i've gotten better with it
mossy zinc
What's the strat now?
ripe crane
Ironically, I was also listening to the Halo soundtrack in that run . . .
I'm down for the Halodes crossover. Is Master Chief gonna be a playable character or just someone that gives you boons?
sly remnant
Hestia is actually the pistol from Halo: Combat Evolved.
this is the most accurate comparison i've heard
HOLY CRAP DID BAJ SET THE HEAT RECORD
sly remnant
congrats @honest kernel insane dedication
ripe crane
I just wanted to take a break. Now I gotta turn EM4 back on
Seems like he could do the same though pretty easily. Plenty of health left and time with a 2 sack
Always surprised by how much damage he can put out
main delta
so is skull earring the new keepsake to put on after your build is somewhat complete?
proud jay
What's the strat now?
DDs with healing when i feel like it's actually doable
proud jay
i also used skull earring a few times in my 40 heat streak
it's solid when you lack dps, or if you have tons of survivability already
ripe crane
Definitely what I will be using when trying out more 40 heat speedruns.
proud jay
yeah i guess it's kind of a no-brainer now for speedruns
now that dad keepsake is nerfed
true fable
i tried using sd LC4 in anyheat
for skull earring strats
felt okish?
but not sure about the benefits vs high confidence
dire steppe
thick skin should be renamed to low confidence change my mind
gaunt fiber
guess what having 30% hp is not that hard
true fable
what about having 0% hp astaos?
true fable
๐
grave hazel
do most people skip out on extreme measures 4? I've been running with it constantly just in hopes that i eventually get better at the fight but it's pretty frustrating ๐ญ
main delta
i did all my 32 heats with em4 because i was scared of hard labor
but then i realized that maxing hard labor was much easier than em4
so now i avoid em4
grave hazel
yeah i get that. my highest so far is 32 and im trying to increase it
maybe ill try that
mossy zinc
thick skin should be renamed to low confidence change my mind
No Confidence*
I think only Tailesque really takes EM4 at high heat?
rain sedge
retrash
tbh eris EM4 is probably as safe as it gets
I can do 54 with it which would put me pretty high up the leaderboard
would need a lot of practice tho
true fable
hestia seems pretty classically safe on EM4 still
i think eris EM4 might actually be quite tough
sly remnant
eris is not a very good EM4 weapon
true fable
especially now that you have to choose between getting the buff and getting special damage
since specialing and running into superdad seems like a terrible idea
sly remnant
the classic EM4 weapons are hestia and beo
true fable
cluster bomb makes it easier to get the buff on high heat i've noticed
ok zag bow today
what do i build on this
rain sedge
what are you doing...?
mossy zinc
How do we have "classic" EM4 aspects when EM4 doesn't even exist for that long.
sly remnant
i mean when suggesting weapons for people to do em4 with
mossy zinc
@true fable Heartbreak Strike + Heart Rend or Smoldering Air (or both).
sly remnant
those are normally the suggestions
mossy zinc
Well, Hestia always works for bosses.
mossy zinc
Lv.1 Guan Yu is the real way to go, though.
sly remnant
p sure zag bow should be arti attack
rain sedge
can you fish for that hammer that gives you no-charge attack?
and pretend you're on rail
and use arty attack with heart rend
or something like doom special for easy spray
mossy zinc
Why would you take Deadly Strike with Heart Rend? You're not applying Weak with anything.
rain sedge
well with the special to just apply the weak
true fable
how do you get heart rend with heartbreak strike? take DF or true shot?
mossy zinc
You could have killed with Heartbreak Strike and Heart Rend by then already. I dunno.
rain sedge
or just fish for charged volley and shotgun it idk
mossy zinc
Yeah, just grab Deadly Flourish or True Shot.
true fable
bet i will try that and report back
rain sedge
bet
mossy zinc
If you start with Deadly Strike, it's not for Heart Rend but for getting Hunter Dash asap, too.
rain sedge
That is a weirdchamp slang bright
mossy zinc
Is it weird? I hear that all the time lol.
rain sedge
are you both americans?
mossy zinc
I live in Germany.
rain sedge
you hear "bet" in germany?
mossy zinc
If I hear it and I am in Germany, then I guess I do.
@main delta congratulations on 40 with shield!
dire steppe
i hear bet in the US
mossy zinc
Bet.
gaunt fiber
If I hear it and I am in Germany, then I guess I do.
That's brilliant
mossy zinc
Thank you. 
rain sedge
where do you live in germany, where people speak english, and say "bet" all the time
like.... unless youre a student in an international school for american expats with other americans I'd be surprised
mossy zinc
I didn't say people in Germany say it all the time.
I said I hear it all the time, and I live in Germany. You're making assumptions.
daring hedge
<@164508146746785792> which would you add first out of AP and RI?
either isn't so bad if you're not going for EM4. maybe AP1 just because rama has at least four hammers that are just straight up good on it in any combination, and you mainly just want to lock in your attack boon anyways
mossy zinc
Hmm alright. Thank you.
daring hedge
since rama isn't necessarily so demanding in terms of boons, RI2 isn't so bad in that respect. it's mostly the loss of extra centaur hearts/obols/etc. without dark foresight that can put on more pressure, rather than less boons
true fable
what do you spend the obols on if you dont want boons
diamonds?
more centaur hearts?
gaunt fiber
Anvil
true fable
helth good me safe?
daring hedge
i guess it's not that you don't want boons, they're still good
but like, you can definitely do without them if you can only get a core attack and like, divine dash etc.
daring hedge
this is so true
true fable
do i run legacy on GY?
daring hedge
i personally run pride pretty much always barring ME runs
pride is also huge for affecting hermes rarity
true fable
true
hmm
yeah wont fish for heart rend
if it happens it happens
the nice thing about art/aphro is they're fine if you dont get HR
mossy zinc
I like Legacy on Guan Yu.
true fable
ME is kind of DOA without ME
daring hedge
yeah, even without legacy you still have a decent shot at HR given prereqs
mossy zinc
You're practically guaranteed Heart Rend if you're taking Legacy.
main delta
not sure if this is the place to ask but how do you reliably kill the skeleton bombers in asphodel with zeus shield?
i find myself dying to td since i can't get them fast enough
true fable
i dont see the problem
i think the real story here is that you didnt thank lord poseidon for handing you meta rewards
@gaunt fiber i see what you mean by charged skewer pressure
misty hamlet
not sure if this is the place to ask but how do you reliably kill the skeleton b...
@honest kernel resident zeus shield expert, WattM needs your wisdom
true fable
i got charged skewer and epic deadly flourish and now if i lose it's my fault
gaunt fiber
exactly
rain sedge
getting Huge Catch with AP2
you have been blessed by the god of flex
it was an opportunity for the greatest flex of all time
well second greatest since there's that zag sword clear retrash did
actually, I think it's the goddess of flex, and she's in this channel
honest kernel
not sure if this is the place to ask but how do you reliably kill the skeleton b...
Skeleton Bombers can be annoying. Depends on the type, but generally speaking, you don't want to knock them away : Dash-attack them, stick the special on them if they aren't near a wall
main delta
thank you!
honest kernel
It's like
Green ones will run away the farthest but will usually be the easiest to catch
Purple ones will dance around you until they try to attack
Orange ones do a bit of both
So for the purple ones I just try to get other enemies first, and they'll start going near me
dire steppe
what if hades had access to all 24 aspects and he rotated which weapon he uses like lernie. Fear the rail hades
honest kernel
Same for Orange
honest kernel
what if hades had access to all 24 aspects and he rotated which weapon he uses l...
Hades with Eris. Or hell, even Nemesis crits
dire steppe
Zagbow hades too
mossy zinc
Hestia would be the worst lol.
honest kernel
oh no
mossy zinc
150 damage, fullscreen, unreactable.
honest kernel
Hey isn't that the current spear in EM4 but less damage
Oh yeah I'm also uploading the video now
for my 57 heat clear
honest kernel
Meant to do it earlier, but I fell asleep for like 10 hours lmao
mossy zinc
Should I upload my 46 Rama where it's just a black screen but the audio is there?
honest kernel
nooooot sure if that would fly
mossy zinc
We have yours with no audio.
honest kernel
I mean, audioless works, but not sure about the reverse
mossy zinc
What's wrong with audio and no video?
daring hedge
lmao
tidal flame
What's wrong with audio and no video?
Nothing. Just label it ASMR
mossy zinc
I can verify the run, I was there for it.
daring hedge
rama aural experience
mossy zinc
It had OBS still set to record Halo.
tidal flame
30 minutes of soothing Boy escaping the Underworld to study/relax to.
mossy zinc
And also the Halo soundtrack playing, ironically.
tidal flame
What's wrong with Halo soundtrack?
mossy zinc
I played myself.
true fable
verify it for the high heat leaderboard
corruption at the highest levels of government
do i take serrated point on gy if i already have charged skewer
just lean into the glass cannon stuff
mossy zinc
corruption at the highest levels of government
gaunt fiber
sure
mossy zinc
I would definitely not take it if you're not confident with Serrated Point.
Unless you want to practice.
I died to Hades even at low heats with Serrated Point until I had more practice. All the other fights were fine.
mossy zinc
What's wrong with Halo soundtrack?
Apparently it cursed my run.
honest kernel
At 'least that's cash money
daring hedge
serrated point drunken strike is a secret strat
it's true, this is how i did 50 heat hades aspect without athena pre-1.0
daring hedge
shield has innate athena: block 
honest kernel
Fair enough
gaunt fiber
yeah
true fable
just block lol
ripe crane
Shield no longer allowed for boonless
honest kernel
Dammit Crepes
honest kernel
For shield, that might be legit the case
Since you really want damage above anything else
ripe crane
I can't even beat EM3 dad unless I have at least 3 Athena dashes
true fable
yeah serrated point was not the move
that dad fight was rough
died phase 2 part 2
๐ฆ
mossy zinc
EM3 dad? Hades on a chariot?
true fable
terrifying
rain sedge
I dont even know what the different skeleton bombers do
I just know they leave bombs when they die
mossy zinc
died phase 2 part 2
That's what happened to me like every time until I had a lot more practice.
Basically.
The green ones throw green bombs at you.
The red ones throw red bombs at you.
Hope that helped.
rain sedge
thanks, this is almost as helpful as your answer to the best setup for 32 heat
mossy zinc
Oh, and the purple ones are the bomb.
Red ones throw bombs in an arc that explode after a moment, and if you're close, they might do a little hop, drop 3 bombs around themself, then jump away. So watch out for that hop.
Green ones just throw their bombs in a straight line.
Purple ones want to hug you, and just chase after you until they're close, do a pirouette, and go kaboom.
honest kernel
Green ones will tend to go far away the most, Purples one close in the most, Orange ones do a mix of both
hollow lynx
green ones also can do a slow curveball that homes slightly
mossy zinc
Slam-Dancers (purple) will often just end you if you see them in early in Asphodel on the small maps.
Because you have like no place to dash away from them.
ripe crane
Skeleton bombers have different colors?
honest kernel
Yes, Crepes, even if you shoot them from offscreen
mossy zinc
That small map with the tiny islands is just brutal with Speeder Slam-Dancers. That's a legit run ender more often than not lol.
honest kernel
More like Speeder Slam-Dancers in general if you don't burst out damage like crazy
3-4 of them on top of you, usually game over
rain sedge
thanks for the knowledge all
as you can see, all I do is hold my attack button and athena dash
ripe crane
Big ones drop bombs and small ones throw them right? Maybe the other way around. Idk.
honest kernel
Purple are the smaller ones, and they just kamikaze on you
Greens are the medium sized, they try to snipe you with their own bombs
Orange ones are the biggest, and do both
They lob, and also drop triple explosive close-range traps
true fable
crepes theres also wavemakers the fellas who shoot the little arc things
just in case you havent seen those yet either
mossy zinc
Probably thought they're just Lernie heads off-screen.
honest kernel
Hmm. Audio's a bit lower than I expected from the clipping, since I used a new program because the old one pulled a trialware on me
But video's up for my 57 heat clear
mossy zinc
Nice.
honest kernel
Put it in #self-promotion real quick
true fable
nice
mossy zinc
Submission form is linked in the spreadsheet.
honest kernel
Thanks for the reminder
sly remnant
Got to phase 2 but it wasn't enough
true fable
F
mossy zinc
Just changed my mirrorless Hestia to seeded because I remembered that was a warm-up run with no previous death that ended up making it lol. But I did the mirrorless boonless one with a previous death in the video, so it's fine.
sly remnant
I coulda done it with a 3 sack
gaunt fiber
don't reflect on the past
sly remnant
I spent 2 hours getting double crossed out on +1 cast
Imma reflect
The sack mechanic just shouldn't happen with TD3
Like even a 3 sack there is fine
But the non mini boss rooms take forever to finish
mossy zinc
You knew that could happen when you picked TD3. You high-rolled and lost.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
gaunt fiber
My strat is being fast so I can clear with a 4 sack
mossy zinc
There's good reason a lot of 50+ runs take TD2.
sly remnant
I'm not some high roll AP2 boy I actually play the game
mossy zinc
You high-roll with TD3 instead.
I mean the odds for 3-sack at least aren't so bad, but you're still betting on it.
If you made it that far, you can do it if just keep going for it. That's pretty good.
true fable
tyler what's your pact
mossy zinc
I think you'll have more consistency with TD2, though.
mossy zinc
You need both high DPS and apparently in your case at least a 3 sack to make it. TD2 you can do even with kinda garbage builds.
Even a 3 sack can put a lot of pressure on you in the Hades fight.
sly remnant
Not with beo
Dio beo and a 3 sack is perfectly fine
I got the room with the snakestones and the big cavern in the middle
That takes forever to clear
mossy zinc
Well, sounds like you can do it if you give it a couple more tries.
rain sedge
I got 4 sacked at 50 heat
Ah, I remember this pain
imagine putting sac mechanic in this game
rain sedge
Isn't the chance of a 3 sack above 50%
the chance of a sac on each tunnel, from the 2nd onwards, is 44%
specifically, when the game opens the 4th smaller room, it rerolls for a 25% chance of a sac
if it fails, it rerolls again on the 5th room
so a 3 sac is 19% chance
a 4 sac like you got is 8.5% chance
rain sedge
basically 44% chance you dont get it on tunnel 2, 19% chance you dont get it on tunnel 3, 8.4% chance you dont get it on tunnel 4 which you are guaranteed to get it next
still, sac mechanic made me rage the hardest in this game, as you've seen
vomit worthy
it's the equivalent of running TD but you get thanatos-ed and the timer still run... except that it's not fixed
or TD gives survival chamber that doesnt stop timer
true fable
are you sure that's correct?
since it's a 25% chance for each tunnel to be a five chamber tunnel
like does that chance take into account that sack chambers get rolled twice sometimes
rain sedge
it has been a while since I did maths
my calculation is on the 4th room, you get 75% chance of not getting the sac
same as the 5th room
mossy zinc
Doing 50+ with TD3 is such a self-induced problem.
rain sedge
therefore it's 75% x 75% = 44% chance of not getting a sac in any given tunnel
true fable
i see
rain sedge
we assume (and seen from the code) the probability to be independent, therefore my calculation
true fable
yeah that's correct
rain sedge
what should my next project be? I'm empty without projects
have done mirrorless 32, and I'm not doing boonless because it's too much effort
gaunt fiber
learn a new language
shy plinth
Cold embrace runs
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
daring hedge
thanks!
shy plinth
Oooh grats
daring hedge
thank you! your willingness to do RI3 inspired me to try your pact and honestly, it's fun getting better at just using the one dash
as well as no athena just because of taking shackle lol
honest kernel
Glad it worked for you
Figured RI3 would work best for Shield because of BullRush
But apparently you do just fine with Rama and one dash too
rain sedge
learn a new language
my words have been used against me
true fable
schad have you done all aspects 32 heat yet
honest kernel
i both love and hate that the shattered shackle is good now
Always has been
true fable
its kind of chill tbh
gaunt fiber
something useful
rain sedge
schad have you done all aspects 32 heat yet
I mean some aspects are so uninspiring
true fable
only zag bow remains 
rain sedge
let me check if the record room will show that
if there's no record of it I won't do it
otherwise, I might
and congrats @daring hedge !
now someone need to do 58 for the throne
daring hedge
that sweet PL heat is just waiting
honest kernel
^
rain sedge
do we have update on that speedrun.com hell mode save stuff
honest kernel
But I'm not gonna pursue it now. That last run made me sleep for 10 hours straight
true fable
it doesnt seem like they want to budge on it
which doesnt really make sense since there are 3 people who are doing 55+ heat lol
main delta
wow congrats! @daring hedge
rain sedge
it doesnt seem like they want to budge on it
lemme find the bablo quote
true fable
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/784561360104194049/202...
flurry cast really doing the work there?
rain sedge
This one, and the following messages after that
unreal pasture
Shackle was always good
daring hedge
flurry cast really doing the work there?
lol that was my attempt at maybe getting greatest reflex from styx hermes
did not work out
rain sedge
it would seem that speedrun.com doesnt even have anything above 50 heat
honest kernel
Board got reset
rain sedge
so I would say their rule doesn't matter for the 58 heat hell mode file run
yea but their category only goes as far as 50 heat
and not "as high heat as possible"
rain sedge
I see it now
I suppose the clout will be nice to put it up there
but hey, I'm not the one involved in this, and I won't run anything higher than 53
the politics of internet moderators/streamers/people are always best to be avoided (at least for me)
mossy zinc
It's kinda weird that they added a category for the people who actually do 50 Heat, then don't listen to the people who actually do 50 Heat when we say Hell mode is fine. 
But I don't care too much either way tbh. Not speedrunning anyway.
rain sedge
It's kinda weird that they added a category for the people who actually do 50 He...
sounds like internet politics to me
mossy zinc
rain sedge
I bet you won't survive nya
rain sedge
Doing 50+ with TD3 is such a self-induced problem.
I knew this would have good payout @mossy zinc
easy karma
mossy zinc
lol I mean I don't mind that I timed out.
Gonna just have to play better, maybe rethink strategies.
Pretty sure Tailesque would have made it with the RNG I had. I don't have much practice with Rama yet. Pretty happy with how far I got.
rain sedge
@true fable yeah the record room shows it, maybe I'll try 32 all aspects
daring hedge
yeah honestly making it to champs with 45 mirrorless there is really good
mossy zinc
And yeah, RI4 TD3 45 is a very self-induced problem.
rain sedge
doesnt seem to be the hardest aspect if I'm being honest
mossy zinc
i just need to do zag bow
Just spam Dash-Strike power shots.
mossy zinc
You can see my pacts.
true fable
ah
rain sedge
why FO0 btw
true fable
why not
true fable
god second wind is so good
mossy zinc
Lucky Tooth in Elysium, but I wouldn't have lost it if I'd played faster.
true fable
FO2 on rama takes quite some practice
dire steppe
Why lucky tooth
true fable
most speedrunners take thick skin FO1 on rama
daring hedge
wow really
mossy zinc
Because Lucky Tooth lets me revive in bad Elysium chambers and gives me a shot at Stubborn Roots.
honest kernel
I just do shackles lol
mossy zinc
why FO0 btw
Because I have 1 dash and no DDs lol.
rain sedge
I see, I forgot that as my brain is small
alright gtg see hypnos, see you beautiful people
true fable
Pce schad
rain sedge
love this community, grats again tail and baj for the 57
true fable
i think bablo runs thick skin across the board in races
dying is quite bad
i do wish there were some more rama
do i still go heartbreak strike on zag bow
mossy zinc
Sure.
honest kernel
Ain't a bad option
true fable
epic chaos dash strike is fun
epic heartbreak strike too
god's pride is not a scam anymore
mossy zinc
You get to see Lady Aphrodite, max damage, you get to see Lady Aphrodite, amazing Duo Boons, you get to see Lady Aphrodite, amazing t2 boons and Life Affirmation, you get to see Lady Aphrodite, Unhealthy Fixation, you get to see Lady Aphrodite, pink hearts, you get to see Lady Aphrodite, 1.43x effective HP right from the start, you get to see Lady Aphrodite, a chance to get Disciple of Aphrodite and unlock the true ending, and you get to see Lady Aphrodite.
It's the perfect start.
^ actually how my brain works
What's not to like?
mossy zinc
This is my brain on a normal day.
true fable
how does anyone enjoy zag bow
mossy zinc
It's kinda boring lol.
But it works.
It's a lot of fun when you're starting out and still practicing power shots.
mossy zinc
I also like just taking it sometimes for a chill run and a change of pace.
Twin Shot crits with Zag bow and Heart Rend are very satisfying.
rain sedge
I enjoy the charged volley big numbers
When I was starting out
Nya, if you're a guy, you'd make a perfect simp
true fable
simp is also true
rain sedge
I think you need to be a guy to be a simp
mossy zinc
I don't really like the word. It's so often used to devalue men who happen to treat women like actual human beings.
rain sedge
I just googled it. Sparta had two kings, so we can have two kings too
Since baj and tail is tied
mossy zinc
Nope.
mossy zinc
Baj is in first place.
proud jay
This one, and the following messages after that
i'd still like to see hell mode allowed
rain sedge
I don't really like the word. It's so often used to devalue men who happen to tr...
I think it's only used in this way by certain group of scums that don't do that though
mossy zinc
Which is a lot of people lol.
honest kernel
You underestimate the nastiness of the Internet
rain sedge
Sad but true 
mossy zinc
Thankfully m not worried at all about that in SGG's community.
dire steppe
the word is way too overused
ive seen it used to describe how peoples treat their WIFE. youโre married. why would you not be nice to them LMAO
rain sedge
Oh no my off colour joke has started a discussion that's too serious
mossy zinc
i'd still like to see hell mode allowed
We have some high heat players who only play hell mode who couldn't submit any run at high heat, and for low heat excluding hell mode makes no sense because it's slower anyway lol.
proud jay
i feel like most mods hold no opinion when it comes to hell mode because they don't know how it's utilized for high heat runs
and there's worry that people are forced to use hell mode
dire steppe
PL not being an option is sort of ridiculous in the first place
proud jay
i've said my opinion so i wouldn't mind if people said what they think of hellmode in ideas&feedback channel
proud jay
PL not being an option is sort of ridiculous in the first place
yeah it's basically awkward design from SGG tbh
rain sedge
PL not being an option is sort of ridiculous in the first place
Amir replied to this in this channel some time ago
dire steppe
iโm not really sure what they want heโll mode to be in the first place
rain sedge
Is amir their lead game designer?
proud jay
yes
rain sedge
Coolios
dire steppe
Iโm well aware that they have nothing that really makes Hell mode unique
But the fixed 5 heat is enough of an early game challenge as it is imo
dire steppe
Donโt need to make PL only in hell mode
mossy zinc
It's more difficult from the start. That's the intention apparently.
rain sedge
Being forced to grind hell mode save with CP js is pretty cringe tbh
honest kernel
The only 2 differences when the endgame is reached is that some pacts are enabled by default, and that Personnal Liability is Hellmode Exclusive
dire steppe
Has anyone ever beaten fresh file on hell mode actually
honest kernel
That's literally it
rain sedge
Like it's 30 Eris runs, minimum, to get the companions and keepsakes
mossy zinc
I kinda like the game more with PL tbh.
rain sedge
It's so unfun
gaunt fiber
Has anyone ever beaten fresh file on hell mode actually
I tried a few runs, got to Elysium easily. Should try again
mossy zinc
But yeah it's a total grind to unlock everything a second time.
gaunt fiber
Champions*
rain sedge
I like pl. I don't like the hell mode grind. If I'm ever doing it, I'll copy someone's save file
honest kernel
^
rain sedge
Champions*
It's called heroes, hellspawn
true fable
i'd like to have PL for 32/40/50 heat but god i do not want to unlock everything again no othank you
mossy zinc
That's why I only do it when I feel like playing some casual hell mode runs.
true fable
fair
mossy zinc
I don't like playing on somebody else's save.
gaunt fiber
It's called heroes, hellspawn
Sure sure
rain sedge
You can't cheat for companions and keepsakes level right
Like I'm all for cheating for the mirror and gems
mossy zinc
People always say Champions.
rain sedge
It's the idea of having to trigger the companion quest that made me balk
mossy zinc
But only Theseus is considered Champion.
gaunt fiber
rain sedge
When I did it all I do is suicide on GY level 1 and HS
Most of my GY runs is from there
gaunt fiber
When I did it all I do is suicide on GY level 1 and HS
Still doing this
true fable
it's heroes
mossy zinc
Why suicide when you can run RI4 32 Lv.1 Guan Yu?
true fable
that sounds miserable
mossy zinc
I tried a couple runs the other day lol.
gaunt fiber
He's bullying himself now
It's all about fun
true fable
how did you delevel the weapon
mossy zinc
Died to Witches. Thanks PL.
true fable
or was this on hell mode
mossy zinc
Hell mode yeah.
One death was to Witches, the other to Linker.
Linker and Speeder are the worst perks.
And Puller for Malphon.
I guess Bruiser on Chariots specifically is up there, too.
But Speeder and Linker are the most difficult to dodge damage from.
mossy zinc
You can get hit just because an enemy spawned right next to you with either of those two.
honest kernel
"I'm about to jump from one edge of the screen to the other, eat this linker damage real quick"
Linker Waveraisers in a nutshell
mossy zinc
Lol
I complained about Linker so many times in the feedback channel during Early Access, but I was not heard.
dire steppe
i wish someone told me that i should start on hell mode
true fable
well i still want to do anyheat/3 weaps
so it would be nice
if there were a community hell mode save
but there is not currently unfortunately
gaunt fiber
Grind it boyo
mossy zinc
If the goal is placing on the high heat leaderboard, first place is currently held by a normal mode run.
unreal pasture
What about linker? Its damage?
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/784587706755579944/20201204191033_1.jpg no twin or triple ๐
true fable
jesus tailesque
dire steppe
what if bow had a quad shot hammer that fired in all 4 directions
would it be useful lmao
daring hedge
if you could shotgun it inside of an enemy: absolutely
true fable
quad hammer would be busted
unreal pasture
"I have to get inside your hitbox, immediately" ๐
true fable
just triple but better
honest kernel
holy mother of what
unreal pasture
I will hit your with my quad shot
mossy zinc
@daring hedge I knew you were gonna work on it if I post my run.
true fable
that's kind of weird
mossy zinc
Predictable.
honest kernel
Yeah ok if it wasn't clear enough, Tailesque is the Rama god
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
true fable
yeah you've outdone yourself
unreal pasture
dang... nyaa got tail wrapped around her finger ๐
true fable
cant wait to see the thumbnail
dire steppe
how do you even pull off point blank perfect shot
daring hedge
she's training us all in the art of reaching max heat one day
honest kernel
I ain't the one doing it for sure LOL
daring hedge
yeah, point blank perfect is still good, but honestly slow compared to having either twin or triple in there
dire steppe
i wish you could get twin triple shot lol
daring hedge
especially since i had deadly strike and not shackle
mossy zinc
M very sure you can do 50 with it, but my power shot timing is still bad. I started practicing with the aspect only today lol.
true fable
yeah i think it's worse if only because of DC and armor
aka two very oppressive and constant things
daring hedge
yeah, minibosses follow that rule heavily
true fable
lemme see if i can find the health spreadsheet
mossy zinc
dang... nyaa got tail wrapped around her finger ๐
It was more I knew if I posted it someone would try to beat me to it because that always happens when I post anything I work on lol. Obviously in the case of Rama, that would be @daring hedge. So I was hesitant at first but I figure ultimately it's something the community as a whole can grow from, so I don't mind if I get beat.
honest kernel
I'm surprised Tailesque didn't go straight for my setup but with PL
mossy zinc
Although it's a bit annoying. 
dire steppe
i can barely do 8 heat mirrorless
daring hedge
i don't have a maxed hell mode file and i'm still not sure about how to do the PL activation thing that crepes learned from ello
or how i would turn it off
honest kernel
Doesn't the speedrun.com website have a maxed hellmode file
I've heard about as much
mossy zinc
Nope. I think @fading star has a maxed hell mode file.
daring hedge
i also try to fill out my own files when i can. just personally
ripe crane
i don't have a maxed hell mode file and i'm still not sure about how to do the P...
Do you wanna know
daring hedge
Do you wanna know
sure! thanks, didn't wanna ping and be a bother
true fable
lol tailesque straight up didnt play the game for a week, came back and did 57, boonless 51 and mirrorless 46
kind of a gamer move
ripe crane
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021448426749993/778502965425602571 instructions are here
rain sedge
I didn't see the 51 boonless
ripe crane
And it just gives you the option to turn PL on or off.
You can put the text back if you want to remove the option
daring hedge
ah, i see. much appreciated
rain sedge
Oh wow that easy
ripe crane
mucho easy
rain sedge
Alright I'll do that, 54 here I come
rain sedge
Or 53? Can't remember my pact setup
gaunt fiber
54
true fable
tiny vermin has 12000 health ๐
rain sedge
What's the maximum js?
ripe crane
3
rain sedge
Yea I'm gonna take I casually
sly remnant
Doing 50+ with TD3 is such a self-induced problem.
This is an aspect myopic response. You want to drop the viability of a lot of aspects in favor of not depending on not losing a 62% chance go get a 3 sack
fading star
Yeah, I have a maxed Hell Mode file. Speedrunners aren't interested in it due to the requirements in the Pact of Punishment
true fable
Yeah, I have a maxed Hell Mode file. Speedrunners aren't interested in it due to...
I would be extremely interested in this! if you're willing to share
ripe crane
And probably because hellmode isn't allowed xd
true fable
if not i completely get it
fading star
I probably could upload it there though in case there ever is a Hell Mode Speedrunner variation
true fable
if we could even just have it pinned here that'd be sick
fading star
I'm totally fine with sharing the file. I just need to find the best way to get it to people
Make my own High Heat website? Hmmm
ripe crane
Drop 'er on google drive
fading star
But I'd also want a Twin Fist dedicated website. I'd call it, "ilovefisting.com"
ripe crane
I'm going to bet money that website already exists
gaunt fiber
Not going to check
dire steppe
it does not exist
ripe crane
Guess they took it down
dire steppe
what DNS server are you using? the hostname doesnโt resolve to anything on mine
gaunt fiber
Don't remember
ripe crane
Same but sometimes it works out anyway. Gotta turn EM4 on though. Probably not good tired
ripe crane
It's the only progression I have left unfortunately
gaunt fiber
I'm so tired of complete runs
ripe crane
Hestia is good at the fight, I am not so much
Yeah I think I'm going to have to do the same
gaunt fiber
Like
16 min in
Getting 2 shot and trying again
Not getting charged skewer for 7 runs
mossy zinc
I'm totally fine with sharing the file. I just need to find the best way to get ...
I guess maybe you could upload it to Google drive and we link to it from the high heat leaderboard if people are interested. (There's a new leaderboard pinned now btw if you haven't seen it yet.)
mossy zinc
This is an aspect myopic response. You want to drop the viability of a lot of as...
I don't even get what the argument here is lol. Viability for what? You can do 50+ with any aspect. Making every aspect viable for TD3 at 50+ was never the goal. TD3 is not designed for 5 players who happen to actually put in the practice and research to do 50+. It works perfectly fine at heats that 99.9% of players play.
I have honestly no sympathy for people who rage at TD3 mechanics after choosing to take TD3 knowing full well what can happen. Nothing in the game required them to take TD3 or to even do 50+ at all.
If you wanna break records that you think require pacts like that, you already know what you signed up for.
Also honestly most players could play a lot faster if they practiced more and not run into those issues as much in the first place. I timed out at RI4 TD3 45 with Rama. @daring hedge made it at 46 because he has way more practice with the aspect and in general.
sly remnant
I don't even get what the argument here is lol. Viability for what? You can do 5...
Look you can abuse Athena and bang your head against the wall all you want until AP2 or RI2 cooperate.
But that doesn't mean the aspect is viable. It means you banged your head against the wall until the game gave you a win. If you want to say, "hey this aspect finished 50" and ignore the fact that you basically didn't play the aspect then be my guest
true fable
you're trying to run dio cast beo on 50 with AP1/2 isn't that banging your head against the wall?
you could do it just as well with charged flight
gaunt fiber
I'm a head banger too then
true fable
isn't any non-boonless AP2 run to some extent a banging of the head against the wall
sly remnant
The only other argument is that I should play aphro cast which is absolutely valid
Because that's actually playing beo
true fable
unless you're "planning" to get terrible boons then you're just hoping Rng goes in your favor
mossy zinc
I don't even know what you're talking about but okay. I've seen plenty of 50+ clears recently with supposedly garbage builds that worked out because the players are great.
gaunt fiber
I think people tend to forget it's a roguelite
mossy zinc
Playing Beowulf with Charged Flight is not playing Beowulf? Okay then.
true fable
i mean like i said, that's because they can do it independent of the build
not sure if you were talking to me
i respect that
instead of getting lightning strike divine dash double DD eris with AP2
sly remnant
I respect the clear. But it doesn't suddenly make what the aspect does well viable
true fable
there's nothing impressive about that to me that's just 45 heat with more steps
retrash's clears are mostly impressive because he makes it work with absolutely godawful boons lol
along with just being an absolute god gamer at those fights
sly remnant
Retrash and nyaa are incredible players. They are way better than me
true fable
like i dont want to clear 50 heat beowulf with mirage shot dio
gaunt fiber
Don't overestimate Nyaanyaa
true fable
that just means i ran into the AP1 grinder and put enough tries to come out on top
sly remnant
But we confuse being a good player with the aspect being fine
TD2 allows you to wheelchair anything thru the 50 heat door.
gaunt fiber
His point is that TD3 is rng bs
true fable
if retrash beat 54 heat with zag sword is anyone really misled about the viability of zag sword
mossy zinc
Viability is proven by what the top players can do not what some other players can't do.
gaunt fiber
For "bad" aspects
sly remnant
I dont play beo just to hit 50. I play beo because I think its gimmick is neat and I like playing with it.
sly remnant
I'm not just gonna wheelchair Athena through the finish
If that was the case there are aspects that use it better
Retrash's 51 didnt even have a cast until asphodel
true fable
how does making it through a series of rolls and rerolls to get the ideal build prove stygian beo's legitimacy in any way
sly remnant
Its not about proving its legitimacy
mossy zinc
I run whatever I think is the best aspect for the job with whatever I think is the best strategy for the job at 50+.
sly remnant
And I respect the hell out of that. Again you are a better player than me
mossy zinc
That's why I chose Rama for 45 mirrorless earlier because I was confident it had the safety and DPS.
daring hedge
the true reason was to goad me into launching hades again after closing it for the night
true fable
LOL
mossy zinc
No I wanted to flex on you for a moment, but that didn't end up working out.
daring hedge
i mean getting to champs mirrorless 45 with rama with not much practice is still kind of a flex to be fair
mossy zinc
My first attempt actually was at 50 but LC4 was brutal lol.
true fable
i finished 24 x 32 so i guess it's time to learn rama
rama seems like a dece weapon
seems alright i suppose
daring hedge
yeah it's ok i guess
true fable
the powershot's kinda slow though i dunno
oh god my builds-and-combat is showing
i kind of want to do beo 50
but the only heats left to add are RI, CF2, AP2 and TD3
all of which sound terrible
i guess i'd take CF2 and TD3 first? i have no clue
mossy zinc
I think Beowulf sucks for 50+ after Charged Flight nerfs lol.
I mean it can obviously do it.
But it's not on the level of say Rama anymore.
daring hedge
yeah probably CF2 and TD3, though i guess beo suffers more from lack of more shop boons
mossy zinc
I think your best bet is RNGing into Charged Flight in Tartarus lol.
And TD2 sounds better than TD3.
true fable
feels oddly like arthur in some ways
mossy zinc
Speedrun mindset just kind of gives you that idea that you need some ideal build, but you can actually make a lot of things work on Beowulf and the base cast can already do a lot of good AOE damage.
true fable
that's definitely true
mossy zinc
TD2 is gonna be way more consistent than TD3.
true fable
i'd say i know how to play trippy flare beo more than i know how to play beowulf tbh
mossy zinc
I'd def take Infernal Soul.
true fable
yeah might do some more infernal soul beowulf practice
mossy zinc
Stygian Soul is only good for Trippy Flare. Infernal is better for everything else.
true fable
who knows
i kind of want to beat the IGT record for beowulf but it means less knowing that bablo doesnt care about it anymore
LOL
true fable
IGT is a stinky category
where whoever sinks the most time into it usually ends up with the record
is the TLDR i think
he's more interested in high heat/RTA
so watch ur records tailesque ๐
but yea like for context, lili had the eris record with 5:56
i think they had like 100 clears and 3k attempts
daring hedge
geez, yeah i guess i can imagine that being the case for low heat igt
at least (for now) high heat igt runs are just, don't die, get good damage, and eventually you'll be happy with your run time and it'll likely be placed pretty high
true fable
yeah like for beowulf at some point for me i just reset anything that wasnt below 2:20 out of tartarus
exactly
it's just the sheer volume
high heat i think the fear of death propels you lmao
main delta
how many attempts did it take for you to clear 57 heat? @daring hedge
daring hedge
i can check ingame real quick lemme see
8, 3 of which i just threw in tartarus because they started badly
main delta
holy crap
daring hedge
er 7 actually lol
daring hedge
no problem
honest kernel
...
Meanwhile I have at 'least 30 attempts
To get anywhere near the Heroes
And another like 15
To actually beat them
true fable
if you complete 50+ heat you're kind of a gamer anyway
daring hedge
i did get plain lucky with the hammers as well as hyper sprint to make up for one dash tbf
wasn't expecting it that soon
ripe crane
Did I miss a tail 57?
ripe crane
o
honest kernel
... I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit annoyed
ripe crane
I know I would be
daring hedge
sorry 
daring hedge
i didn't at all mean to take away from your own 57
ripe crane
Yeah uh that'
s why I'm taking a break
So you guys can feel good about your 57s for a bit
hollow lynx
we'll be at 64 in no time
ripe crane
Real talk, I got 56 on my third attempt (with lucky hammer/hermes). I'm just going to practice EM4 a lot, add EM4 to my 56 setup and keep running until I get lucky again. I don't think Hestia can go over 60, because that would require DC or RI4.
That's the plan anyway, if I'm ever not exhausted from work
true fable
oh true
sly remnant
I took a breath and found a better way to articulate the point I was trying to make. Nyaa is absolutely right that every aspect can do 50+. She is a better player than me at the game. The point i was trying to make is that I wasn't concerned with being a better player I was concerned with being a better beowulf player. They are not the same. For me to understand the weapon better I have to punish myself with a time limit in order to understand where my mistakes are and what I am doing wrong. Its not about the floor of 50 heat. Its about understanding what kind of ceiling it has. TD2 AP2 RI1 or 2 takes an immense amount of game understanding. It should absolutely be the pact for people getting generally good at hades. I dont want to get generally good at hades. I want to get good at beowulf. I was raging about the 4 sack because of how detrimental it is to beowulf. An eris 4 sack and a beowulf 4 sack are worlds apart. Yes i was salty. I got too rage-y and I apologize especially to you nyaa.
proud jay
does someone here have a maxed hell mode save file they're willing to share?
proud jay
we'd like one for speedrun com
true fable
@fading star do you have it available for SRcom
prime cairn
Yeah if someone has a fully maxxed (unlocks and story) Hell Mode save file - could you upload it to Resources please?
https://www.speedrun.com/hades/resources
red basalt
I mean
Iโm kinda workinโ on that
Iโve maxed the Rail, and have at least two aspects on each weapons
north dove
I can upload mine in a little bit
fading star
If I had any idea how to upload to this site, I could do send my file
north dove
I'm only missing the infinite theme and some progress with the resource director, that should still count as maxxed right?
fading star
I think they only care about having all the story completed and the weapons, heirlooms, and trinkets maxed
north dove
Should be fine then, where do I find my save file and how do I upload it?
oh actually I'm missing some bounties with the shield, I should probably work on that
true ridge
i dont know if this is really considered "high heat" but what would be an ideal setup for 16 heat?
fading star
What do you want to accomplish for your "ideal" at 16 heat? Are you simply wanting to beat it or are you wanting to incorporate some of the more difficult mechanics when in combination?
true fable
also what aspect are you interested in doing it on?
true ridge
well, i am looking to beat it. probably with a shield aspect. perhaps beowolf?
true fable
how well-versed are you in the boss fights with EM1/2/3
true ridge
pretty good with 1 and 2. i did 3 once
fading star
I wouldn't bother with EM3 at 16 heat
spring kettle
Aww, I've been doing EM3 to try to get used to it
spring kettle
I haven't touched EM4 yet
fading star
The choice is really up to you. Most of us seasoned high heat runners don't touch EM3 until 40+ heat
main delta
really?
fading star
Many will practice a boss by creating a save file on the heat they want at the boss mechanic they want and just run that over, and over, and over until they learn
It depends on what you are working on
fading star
EM3 will feel very different on FO2 vs no FO
true fable
and with HL5 vs without
true ridge
sooo... what else should i pick?
true fable
but to answer your question shell, JS1 is usually pretty light, tight deadline is usually pretty safe
depending on how quickly you usually clear biomes
fading star
So it seems like @true fable is alluding to what I was about to say, which is depending on the other pacts of punishment you are working on, certain boss fights will feel very different. You can effectively blow up EM3 without many modifiers on the fight, so you won't learn much but with other settings it will feel immensely different
true ridge
well, this is the first time im really putting beowulf into action
fading star
And I value learning along the way even if it takes me longer to clear that level of heat
true fable
yeee i think so
honest kernel
1 or 2 on Hard Labor seems fine
true fable
beowulf is a weird weapon to learn for a 16 heat first try
true fable
i dont think theres any weapon in the game that really feels simialr
true ridge
what would you recommend then?
fading star
One thing you should be running early is FO. Getting used to how fast enemies are is very important
true fable
chaos shield is pretty simple imo
honest kernel
^
true ridge
really? why chaos?
honest kernel
Bullrush -> Special is your damage routine
true fable
^
honest kernel
Don't need to go more complex than that, other than maybe bash people with attack
true fable
and its a shield (ie safe)
good crowd control, great room clear
doesnt have good boss damage but if you have EM2 that's not an issue
true ridge
thiiiink i might need to invest a bit more blood, but i'll give it a shot
true fable
let me see if i can draw up a pact
honest kernel
How much is invested
true ridge
one
true fable
do you have all your blood in beowulf?
honest kernel
Shield aspects are titan blood hungry