FO2 Theseus destroys me lmao
#h1-high-heat-strategies
thorn jay
tidal flame
god speed!
tidal flame
i might take a couple of tries. but 32 heat is more of a mental hurdle than a mechanical one, at least to me
hollow lynx
@daring hedge actually, if parting shot and lightning phalanx work like i think they do right now, it might warrant aphro/athena/zeus a blue rating
daring hedge
yeah i was mostly concerned with aphro/athena/dio, i can see this one being good though for sure
we're all so inexperienced with parting shot interactions lol
i think i've only taken it like 3 times ever maximum
hollow lynx
it's just not that flashy, i don't think
i'm still reeling over that ||hades' aid|| crystal beam interaction i found lol
daring hedge
it's so funny that it's potentially the best thing to come out of a feature that i would have expected to be a lot more... whelming
hollow lynx
absolutely hilarious
also it's really funny that it's just gonna get overshadowed by the presumed hunting blades memery
crystal beam can't even keep up in its meme potential
tidal flame
tfw the new TD is harder than the old one
mossy zinc
Nemesis and Achilles should have no problem with JS3 CP2 DC2 TD2.
Nemesis could do TD3 with that.
proud jay
you might be overestimating nemesis
tropic forum
@hollow lynx what interaction lol?
proud jay
so far 45 heat is the highest recorded nemesis clear
mossy zinc
Right. I was responding to the conversation above where somebody asked for help with 32.
proud jay
probably not the setup i would pick for 32 heat but idk
mossy zinc
It was more a point that those pacts shouldn't be an issue at all for Nemesis or Achilles if you only pick TD2.
As in, if you can have those maxed out, then taking only JS2 or whatever would be perfectly fine, too.
Because there was discussion about whether JS1 would be bad with TD2 for the aspects they like to play. For Nemesis and Achilles at least, it should be free.
mossy zinc
@proud jay @daring hedge @bronze viper @wraith imp can you add your own runs to the list? Mind you, I'm not verifying any runs. But we don't have a compilation of 1.0 runs at the moment, the pinned spreadsheet hasn't been updated at all. If they start updating it, that's cool, but meanwhile we can just add our own runs here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing
I set it to "comments allowed", so I hope it works as I intend it that you can add stuff and I just approve the changes.
subtle beacon
Question for all of you, since I'm only starting to get into the higher heat parts of the game, what are the thoughts on the Hidden aspect of Stygius? It's moveset feels pretty powerful to me currently (especially paired with olympians like Artemis, Athena, Ares/Aphrodite), I was wondering if there was something I was missing or, if it is one of the better aspects?
mossy zinc
DC is a problem, and it gets difficult to land the full 3-hit combo consistently with FO2.
It's pretty good, otherwise.
subtle beacon
Any general advice for FO1/FO2? It's probably the challenge I struggle with the most by far.
mossy zinc
Er.. just practice, I guess. Pay attention to how enemies telegraph their attacks, how close you need to be for their attacks to trigger, and don't dash mindlessly, dash deliberately.
subtle beacon
Eh fair enough, my question was too vague lol.
mossy zinc
It's easier when you have good natural reactions and low input lag. But positioning and just general experience are big factors, too.
subtle beacon
That's fair, I feel like I'm just struggling to get any of my times down to sub 20 minutes, I got lucky with a good build on excalibur there and got it down to 18, but that's the quickest I've gone by far.
mossy zinc
Oh, for Tight Deadline.
Hmmm. I would go Heartbreak Strike + Divine Dash + Zeus' Aid, then get Smoldering Air. That should give you good DPS.
subtle beacon
Oh sorry, I was confusing Forced overtime with Tight deadline.
tardy path
Ahh
mossy zinc
Divine Dash will let you be aggressive.
subtle beacon
Yeah Forced Overtime isn't really a problem for me hahahah
mossy zinc
Dark Foresight for extra boons and HP etc.
subtle beacon
Which one's dark foresight.
mossy zinc
The one that gives you extra boons and HP etc.
👀
That's what it does lol. +20% gold laurel rewards.
subtle beacon
Oh yes, the green one.
Apologies, I'm mostly used to using everything in the purple side of the mirror, haven't really begun levelling the stuff in green.
mossy zinc
Well, you can just use a key to reset your mirror if you don't have enough Darkness otherwise.
subtle beacon
I'm just farming lower heat runs for darkness atm, shouldn't take me too long.
tardy path
Make sure to grab poseidon and chaos to increase the darkness rewards
mossy zinc
I've never bothered with farming runs. 
subtle beacon
Did grab poseidon, chaos is a good shout, forgot they give boon rewards.
mossy zinc
Once you can max one side, it's not like you need any more Darkness. You get way more keys than you need anyway.
subtle beacon
I was getting annoyed at not having any rerolls and cause I was blazing through the heats (50 runs since game started and only lost 2), hadn't been gathering much darkness up.
mossy zinc
So, that sounds like you don't need the rerolls to breeze through the heats. 
tardy path
Then just turn on RI 1
subtle beacon
I like having them, options are always nice, especially when I want a run to go a certain way hahahah
tardy path
You didn't need those dice anyways right?
subtle beacon
Lolll
mossy zinc
I've thought a few times about writing feedback to reduce Persuasion rerolls to 3.
subtle beacon
I take it they cap out at 4 or 5?
mossy zinc
subtle beacon
Yeah, I can kinda agree with you there, no situation usually where I can see myself needing more than 3.
(Plus if I waste them, can always just do a key room)
mossy zinc
I just think 4 gives me way too much control.
3 is still a lot tbh. But that 1 reroll makes a difference.
subtle beacon
Yeah, can be the difference between getting the god I want and, well, not.
mossy zinc
No, that's Authority.
Persuasion lets you reroll what boons you're offered, what items you can get from Wells, or what to sacrifice at Pools of Purging.
subtle beacon
Ah, like I said, not all too familiar with the green side of the mirror.
Are there any standouts from the green side that you'd say are particularly superior to the purple (Say just flat out better)
honest kernel
how do the dice work? i haven't unlocked them yet out of fear that i might be wasting darkness
honest kernel
i think the darkness healing one is just better than the +3 every chamber but that's just my opinion
thoughts?
subtle beacon
Really? Stubborn defiance over Death Defiance?
mossy zinc
I full-time LC4, so honestly, no idea about healing.
honest kernel
what's LC4 sorry
honest kernel
oh that's some high flex gameplay
mossy zinc
They're just initialisms from the pacts. There's a list in the pins.
honest kernel
something something that's probably why you like stubborn defiance
mossy zinc
Yeah, Stubborn Defiance circumvents the lack of healing.
honest kernel
basically your only form of healing if you get below 30% at any time
mossy zinc
Right.
uncut wagon
Dont go full skull heat i say, Its not worth the searing pain
mossy zinc
You can also suicide before picking up a boon from Lady Athena to get a free DD from her Last Stand or Deathless Stand.
honest kernel
i got the game three days ago so i haven't done all the pacts and stuff yet
i've unlocked it but only played with the enemies have more health option on
mossy zinc
Ah that's cool.
LC4 is standard at 40+, so I just never turn it off even at low heats.
subtle beacon
What heat do you usually play at Nyaanyaa?
mossy zinc
Depends. I've just been working on finishing up bounties for some weapons lately.
I'd like to grind 50+ again, but I don't get to play much now due to school, so I've just been doing that.
honest kernel
are there any mirror upgrades you would say to prioritize over all others?
mossy zinc
Defiance and Greater Reflex.
honest kernel
oh, i didn't realize that this was in the high heat strategies channel. this explains why you're talking about super high level gameplay hahah
mossy zinc
mossy zinc
No worries.
honest kernel
coral fractal
so, what is a good high heat for use in the start?
mossy zinc
Yeah, I don't really understand the question, sorry. 
hollow lynx
@tropic forum ||the hades ‘ aid +100% damage boost|| affects crystal beam
tropic forum
Just got is aid so have not used it yet
trim blaze
where does his keepsake fall into the meta of higher heat (25 and up)? kind of been playing, haven't kept up with discord, or reddit much
hollow lynx
it’s pretty underwhelming lol
trim blaze
hmm, that's sad :/
bronze viper
@mossy zinc I have been firmly casual since 1.0 lol, and I doubt I'll be able to get back into the grind for another week or so.
mossy zinc
I dunno who did any high heat stuff. I just tagged people who I thought might have lol.
bronze viper
Gotcha. It's nice to know there's a place to post again though, at least until we sort out the 50+ thing on speedruns
mossy zinc
I imagine most people are too lazy to add their own runs anyway lol. I added one from Tailesque because that was right there in #self-promotion, but I didn't dig for any more.
Yeah, having no list at all is kinda meh.
bronze viper
@daring hedge actually, if parting shot and lightning phalanx work like i think they do right now, it might warrant aphro/athena/zeus a blue rating
@hollow lynx I was told in #h1-builds-and-combat recently that Parting Shot applies the backstab bonus to casts regardless of whether or not you backstab with them. Which is consistent with the phrasing I guess. Have not personally verified yet.
hollow lynx
i always interpreted the phrasing to mean that the "bonuses" is the ability to backstab for extra damage, not the extra damage that comes from backstabbing
bronze viper
The difference is pretty massive though. It potentially makes Parting Shot better than Mirage Shot, and a million times easier to get
hollow lynx
i just... don't take it that much lol, i'll have to verify later
bronze viper
(pretty sure Parting Shot has been the lightning rod for me in 1.0)
hollow lynx
when i use athena/aphro, cast is the last thing i have in mind
(usually because i'm also using artemis)
bronze viper
It's a natural inclusion on Hera at least.
Crush Shot + Divine Dash was already optimal
wanton plover
at what heat does it get from really hard but reasonable to unreasonable rng fiesta
mossy zinc
That's such a subjective question lol.
honest charm
@wanton plover AP2 and you only pick the leftmost door
mossy zinc
AP2 is fun and relaxing.
Let go of the pain of choice.
Embrace your fate.
(and reroll if you don't like it)
somber rose
I beat 32 heat with excalibur and it felt so clunky due to how slow the weapon is. I got hit with so many spin slashes but each only did 17 damage due to aphro+the special aura so I managed to facetank hades to victory.
mossy zinc
That's the idea lol.
cobalt arrow
did you guys directly jump to high heat or did you first collect the rewards for low heat?
bronze viper
I still haven't finished the bounties
royal wagon
it can be handy to have the bounties done because then you get darkness which will heal you if you don't have LC4 on lol
so it sort of depends on your definition of 'high heat' because at 32 you can still potentially have LC3 or lower on
forest lichen
I'm at like level 10 heat with bounties but I'm doing 32 heat runs
bronze viper
I just did bounties until I got blood for weapons I wanted to play
arctic fiber
I still have my 0 Heat Sword and Spear unfinished
forest lichen
0 heat spear is more difficult to me than 16 heat shield/rail
arctic fiber
bleck. me no likey rail
yet somehow it's the weapon with the second most successful clears
cobalt arrow
is it possible to win with everything maxed? It seems to me that there are some things which exclude other options
arctic fiber
everything maxed?
cobalt arrow
especially time limits combined with everything making enemies tougher and disabling darkness
yes
arctic fiber
oh as in using all the heat settings
arctic fiber
I'm pretty sure it is, though I can't imagine ever doing it myself
cobalt arrow
I have the feeling that you are lacking the damage to finish in time.
the time limit is the one that seems to be the issue
bronze viper
It is. Sub 20 minute runs with CP2 JS3 DC2 BP2 EM4 is... Something
We don't know yet if it's actually possible even routed.
silver nova
I don't think it was made to be beaten
They even said they don't want to make too high heat achievements
mossy zinc
It was neither made to be beaten nor made to not be beaten.
honest charm
they're just all there for our enjoyment
crimson zenith
Hey, what is your pact of punishment set up for 16 heat. I always go to final bass and than he kills me
autumn elk
would you recomend higher epic boons, or higher legendary/duo boons?
forest lichen
depends on build
if you're hunting for a specific legendary or duo then take that
otherwise get epic chance
tidal flame
@crimson zenith it depends on people. I can only tell you what I use. Don't take this strictly as an advice. But here goes: TD3 (6 Heat) FO2 (5 Heat) EM2 (3 Heat) CF1 LC1
tidal flame
Alternatively you can do Boss Rush start for 16 heat with EM4 (10 Heat) and TD3 (6 Heat).
mossy zinc
FO2 is 6 Heat, yes.
tidal flame
really?
i thought FO1 was 2
ah well
then 16 heat is slightly more forgiving even
mossy zinc
You might get better answers for easiest pacts at 16 Heat in #h1-builds-and-combat to be honest.
honest charm
why would you convenience fee at 16 heat?
tidal flame
because that lets me gather money for Styx shop premium 
boon too expensive might as well save for TB
but in the odd chance you need to buy health, +40% is still somewhat doable
mossy zinc
I never take off LC4 and FO2 because they keep me sharp for high heat, and I barely notice them anyway. So . . . without anything else, I'd just take TD3 to push myself to not waste time and keep my DPS high.
That's not exactly picking pacts for ease of clearing.
forest lichen
how does LC interact with vampiric weapons
tidal flame
it doesn't. you still get the healing
mossy zinc
Guan Yu and Cursed Slash will still heal. Draining Cutter won't.
crystal iron
I wonder why, seems like a weird exception
daring hedge
oh interesting, i wonder if that's because of a minor distinction with GY and CS applying the healing effect to the attack directly, while draining cutter might consider it a separate heal that procs after the killing special
crystal iron
maybe
mossy zinc
It's because Amir coded it that way.
tidal flame
I mean from a coding perspective, it makes sense to have the same code for GY and CS, while draining cutter can be a separate "buff"
daring hedge
yeah that's pretty much what i meant
crystal iron
Or maybe from a balance standpoint, since draining cutter doesn't have a downside, it doesn't lower your mad health. Or maybe because it heals for a percentage.
daring hedge
i think it's reasonable to consider that it might be part of it, yeah
mossy zinc
Draining Cutter's very real downside is you have to use the Uppercut.
daring hedge
lol
daring hedge
i think i've taken draining cutter a grand total of one or two times
it barely helped at all!
mossy zinc
It doesn't work with Dash-Upper.
daring hedge
yeah
bronze viper
It scales from Nourishing soul I think though
daring hedge
that would also make sense considering the distinction from GY and CS which are not affected by that
time to do a run where you... recklessly take extra damage, with fists (?) because you'll run with draining cutter and nourishing soul (??)
i'm sure someone out there will do this
at some point
dusky rune
what are the usual boon strategy for gilgamesh aspect runs?
just got it dont know what to use it with
mossy zinc
There aren't any because the aspect is too new for that.
mossy zinc
ME works well.
dusky rune
for the fists I usually ran with chain lightning because it worked well enough but doesnt really work as well with gilgamesh
what is ME?
mossy zinc
Curse of Agony, Divine Flourish, Divine Dash, Merciful End.
dusky rune
merciful end?
honest charm
yes
mossy zinc
Basically this.
Worked for JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3, so it should work for whatever you're trying.
DPS will be there.
honest charm
masochist
5 minute timer with JS3 CP2 DC2
mossy zinc
Breaching Cross is #1 hammer. If I did 40+ with this, I'd run a Breaching Cross seed.
@honest charm I wanted to test if the aspect was any good.
My conclusion is it's great for ME and bad for everything else.
forest lichen
looking through lua files is so fun
yeah drain cutter is coded like a normal heal, spear and sword healing is coded as lifesteal which ignores pretty much every healing modifier
fun fact: lifesteal technically heals for a percentage of damage dealt
except it has minimum of 1 and maximum of 1 for spear, and 2 for sword
bronze viper
Lol that's janky
mossy zinc
Sounds like they had some other idea for lifesteal at first.
forest lichen
probably yeah
daring hedge
ahh i thought so, thanks for that info
tidal flame
fun fact: lifesteal technically heals for a percentage of damage dealt
except it has minimum of 1 and maximum of 1 for spear, and 2 for sword
it reminds me of the SpongeBob meme where he draws a photorealistic face then erase it to get a perfect circle.
hollow lynx
i imagine it’s a holdover from the first lifesteal hammer all the way back in the first patch
crimson zenith
I did it! 16 HEAT BABY
daring hedge
congrats!
crimson zenith
Aspect of Arthur rules
somber rose
Oh I thought athena dash was enough for merciful end, no wonder I didn't get it
sleek juniper
Generally playing a 16 to 19 heat, decided that I want to wrap up the last skelly statue. Made it to the end of Elysium/into Styx a bit on 32 hear. Think em4 is maybe not the best of ideas for it. What are some good or bad ideas for hitting manageable heat options?
bronze viper
What aspect?
proper kestrel
ugh, almost beat 32 heat on gloves, died on the final stage
i have a feeling that wave between phase transitions is much more worse then it looks
It looks like normal skull wave, but instead i get telefragged every time, am i imagining or there is something wrong?
daring hedge
it has a rather harsh hitbox unless you dash directly across it, moving totally inward
so sometimes if you try to dash diagonally across, it can clip you easily
proper kestrel
im also not sure if its affected with extra 20% speed for enemies
daring hedge
i believe it is, a lot of projectiles are
proper kestrel
i think i get hit when i double-dash through it for some reason
okay, at least its good to know that i should time it better
daring hedge
yeah, it sounds like it might just be a timing problem which you'll get better at soon enough
proper kestrel
would like to see its color or effect be changed to look more different, its quite misguiding
211 runs man
daring hedge
do you tend to get hit by it every time still?
proper kestrel
not really every time, just, had a tension that its hitbox is a bit broken compared to skull explosion
and its same animation
I dont really like this effect in general because you cant tell what is the hitbox
I guess i could make a post in feedback about it
daring hedge
i don't think it's all too different from MM skullcrusher's wave or hades' skull cast waves for that matter. the hitbox is a bit nebulous, but the best advice i can give is to only dash directly towards its origin point for the best chance at dodging through it
proper kestrel
nah, i get everything, thanks
Basically i get hit because i want to try to dish out us much damage as i can before he starts attacking
daring hedge
oh, i think i see your problem more clearly, then, maybe
hexed oriole
real quick question - you have to ESCAPE on a heat difficulty in order to move up to the NEXT difficulty to claim new rewards, right?
daring hedge
dash-strikes cancel out remaining i-frames from dashes
proper kestrel
oh god
hexed oriole
Tail: I heard that dash-strikes do not cancel out remaining i-frames if you have the athena boost?
daring hedge
so if you try to attack immediately after crossing the wave, it can hit you as soon as your dash-strike begins
proper kestrel
thats why gloves feel so hard to dodge
hexed oriole
because you're punching a lot? I can see that
daring hedge
@hexed oriole it can make it feel that way, but really what happens there is that the deflection box from divine dash still lingers even if you perform a dash-strike, and attacks that are deflected can no longer harm you for the rest of their animation
hexed oriole
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh, okay. So I'm not invulnerable, but I am auto-deflecting anything that's about to hit me, which is very similar to invulnerability
daring hedge
yeah, pretty much
it's why it can feel especially effective and safe versus things like asterius' wide swings, since if you even deflect a very early frame of it, the rest of the whole swing is incapable of hurting you
errant jackal
Hello, is there a secret to beating Hades? I've tried so many times and I keep dying
hexed oriole
I know a few things (like lasers) can't be deflected, so that'll do it for you, but generally speaking you're ok
ohhhh, because if you're using a non-athena dodge, you can gain your hitboxes back while the swing is still going and get tagged by it
daring hedge
exactly
proper kestrel
@errant jackal For any builds - learn the timing of his spin attack
And dont panic
errant jackal
I take my time, but the green shock wave is whats killing me
errant jackal
does Athena's dodge reflect block it?
proper kestrel
hexed oriole
when does the dash recharge? Is it timed off the start or the end? If I cancel a dash very quickly into a dash-strike, can I dash sooner than if I just let the dash continue? If that's the case, does that mean I can use the extended athena deflection to provide myself with less-interrupted deflection?
proper kestrel
Athena dodge blocks the skull
But doesnt destroy it
Also you can dash through the wave if you dash to the point it started spreading
errant jackal
is there anything that can get rid of the green wave tho?
proper kestrel
You can kill skulls
uncut wigeon
Dude did 1k a pop to redacted
proper kestrel
They wont explode in the wave if you destroy them
errant jackal
: /, ok ig
daring hedge
yes, we're talking about how if you deflected them in previous updates, they would disappear entirely dragon
hexed oriole
but once it's up you I believe have to dash through them. I don't think you can hide behindobstacles
uncut wigeon
What does being able to kill them matter?
daring hedge
and you wouldn't even need to destroy anything
uncut wigeon
Send them Hamlet props back to that crabk
proper kestrel
about ^ i had 6 freaking skulls dropped down at the same time on the ground
how to counter this i have no idea
uncut wigeon
Get your bugs bunny on and miss all that
daring hedge
pretty much proper spacing and dodging and a prayer
proper kestrel
Its just not real for slow weps
EM4 last phase
At least for high heats its unreally hard
Cause you cant focus on skulls properly and boss is even faster then before
daring hedge
it's plenty doable on slow weapons as long as your damage is there
can get tough, though, yes
uncut wigeon
Play gilgamesh aspe t
hexed oriole
if you can do decent AoE damage that helps a lot I'm guessing
uncut wigeon
You get 3 dashes or 4 with the right mirror setting
proper kestrel
The problem is, if he starts spamming skulls when you swing your slow weps...
hexed oriole
I didn't have a ton of skull trouble, but I had artemis rail, piercing shot, and aphrodite hazard bomb so I was regularly doing ~700 to a third of the map constantly
proper kestrel
i cant play gilgamesh
its just unreal for keyboard to mash Q properly with such dashes
hexed oriole
I'm not sure how I'd deal with them solo
proper kestrel
I mean, for slow weps like arthur or guan yu
Or rama in some cases
But Rama can just outdps anything
and is also more ranged
daring hedge
it really is just timing, spacing, and having enough damage not to get too overwhelmed
proper kestrel
guan yu on stage 3 is a dead mans weapon anyway xd
unless you build like 250 hp and dont lose any
Im not sure what is the best keepsake for final fight tho
for high heats its probably acorn, without damage boosts it should be tooth, not sure if sigil is worth it, i use it often on EM4, but it doesnt seem to do much
At least it stops the poison completely
daring hedge
sigil unfortunately can't keep up with the other good keepsakes there, yeah
it's a little too niche
errant jackal
Did you guys choose God’s pride or god’s legacy
hexed oriole
Hold on. I picked up the "bosses have a bigger technique" thing becuase I figured with all my resources, and with the rest of tartarus being hte same, wouldn't be a big issue
is that why all three of htem are there, ready to beat me up?
OH okay so I kind of did only need to kill one of them, it was just a mroe hectic fight
hollow lynx
yes, Extreme Measures basically gives the bosses a variant, harder fight
for the furies, 1-2 of her sisters will come help out in the fight, having their own support movesets to attack you with
hollow lynx
hrm, i rated athena/ares/artemis as blue but now that i'm thinking about it, are their duos really that synergistic?
daring hedge
hmm, yeah i guess not in particular? mostly just that they all get very good duos
but those duos don't necessarily care a huge amount about each other maybe
hollow lynx
i was thinking that divine dash was doing double duty in both ME and DR, but now divine dash doesn't qualify so you'd need further investment that might not be worth it
daring hedge
ah yeah true for some reason i forgot about divine dash tying those together nicely
now you need another color for "synergistic but not as much as it used to be really"
hollow lynx
the investment is further compounded by needing both a doom boon and slicing shot, which is oof
ended up labeling it purple, since the most reasonable synergistic choices you have is either ME+DR or HB+DR
hollow lynx
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U4Gc4bDDQR3Jc0_vvRq1RsvUN-Xm85y90hmww91e3_k/edit?usp=sharing
updated with notes about each trio and their duo boons, and some thoughts about each core as i found important
all blue, red, and purple ratings have thoughts, only some of the yellow ratings do cause most aren't worth much
daring hedge
ooh i like the annotations
still easy to read at a glance but questions get answered readily
though i guess we should at some point test to make sure CoD works with sea storm
hollow lynx
i think one of my favorites to write was aphro/dio/pos
we probably should, tbf, though it might warrant a blue even without? but then again ares/pos/zeus isn't exactly the most lauded of all builds
daring hedge
yeah, i might personally put it at yellow in the sense of "(a) little synergy" if sea storm were to not work with CoD
but i think it's totally fine leaving it blue for now
daring hedge
of course! it honestly should get a pin sometime
hollow lynx
cough hopefully one of the mods sees this 
jk, but this was really fun to make, love theory-crafting like this
craggy mesa
At what heat does ||Shady|| become not an effective ||companion||? (I have ||Meg’s|| and ||Skelly’s|| and I’m at 8 heat for the shield)
Also what should I do for the 8th heat of shield?
trim sigil
No need to spoiler that stuff in there, as stated in channel description
Shady is only as effective as low your Lasting Consequences (LC) choice is, so if you avoid that pact option for a while it can go fairly far
8 heat shield is quite a variety of choices, but if you plan on going deeper into that stuff I'd recommend FO2 TD1 EM1 as one of possibilities
craggy mesa
?
honest charm
Forced Overtime
craggy mesa
IDK what that means specifically
honest charm
that's how you git gud
trim sigil
(look in pinned messages for meanings)
honest charm
the timer just forces you to DPS and not screw around
which is also part of gitting gud
trim sigil
And extreme measures is for learning the harder version of the boss you'd see the most
craggy mesa
What keepsakes/companions should I use?
trim sigil
Honestly, not willing to say that cliche, but whatever suits you. It's very beneficial to get your own estimation of build aspects, especially since it's widely known that all of them can be viable with right approach in this game
Some just happen to be more universal choices ig
craggy mesa
Athena and Zeus are my two preferred for shield, but I’m not familiar enough with my three companions (2 star Meg, 5 star Bouldy, 4 star Skelly) to know what’s best
honest charm
5 star meg is a lot of damage in a wide area
extremely useful for the Champions and the Megagorgon
craggy mesa
I only have 6 ambrosia
honest charm
well
even at level two it's decent for megagorgon
I'm not saying it's the best, just that it's good
the problem it that they're actually all good
trim sigil
^
Like, at this point personal preference will matter way more than a generic guideline
And trying to follow one may actually be detrimental to experience
somber rose
I used to like poseidon sword but now not so much... even when built well it pales in comparison to other aspects when built well (and it's much easier to get to that point with them)
glossy roost
Is it because Poseidon knock back effect doesn’t help much in boss fight ?
trim sigil
I believe they meant Poseidon sword aspect, not a sword with Poseidon attack boon
craggy mesa
I don’t particularly like any of the sword or fist aspects other than the 4th ones
IDK why I guess they just...don’t change up how I play or have enough kick to differ them from Zag aspect I guess
daring hedge
huh, really? i find that poseidon aspect has a different enough playstyle with the focus on cast dumping and forcing them out
and the rhythm of charging uppers on demeter aspect is fun and different from just zag fists, i feel
mossy zinc
Demeter Aspect and Talos both have unique abilities.
daring hedge
yeah, talos special is just entirely different off the bat
balmy marlin
asking over here, is Bouldy recommended for 32 heat runs? taking into consideration not using LC, of course
mossy zinc
Sure.
edgy arrow
pretty sure i used it in mine
speaking of which, i should really get another 32 clear in 1.0...
honest kernel
bouldy's nice
rapid basalt
@balmy marlin I used it in my one and only 32 heat clear - my logic was that I could often use bouldy to heal myself through a situation where I thought I might die to save death defiance for later and maybe get me to the next heal opportunity. I guess it makes sense to use it with DD instead of SD in that case as well.
hollow lynx
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U4Gc4bDDQR3Jc0_vvRq1RsvUN-Xm85y90hmww91e3_k/edit?usp=sharing
added full annotations for all yellow ratings, meaning all trios have annotations
mossy zinc
How is Lady Artemis + Lady Demeter + Poseidon a conflict?
Blizzard Shot + Fully Loaded.
And err . . . whatever Double Cast is called now.
static plover
Mirage shot
static plover
I just remember a lot of random (largely useless) knowledge
hollow lynx
How is Lady Artemis + Lady Demeter + Poseidon a conflict?
cause you can also get mirage crystal clarity
there's two synergistic choices here, but you still can only get one
mossy zinc
And how is Mirage Shot + Crystal Clarity bad?
hollow lynx
it's not
honest charm
it just doesn't let you get blizzard shot
hollow lynx
there's two good choices here (mirage blizzard shot or mirage crystal clarity)
therefore there's a synergy conflict
mossy zinc
Alright.
Merciful End and Curse of Longing want to do very opposite things with Doom and taking both can lead to some real bad situations.
What bad situations?
ME clears everything, Curse of Longing never comes into play.
Not exactly a bad situation.
You still kill everything in record time.
mossy zinc
There's that, too.
You can use that for poms to buff your Curse of Agony.
It all comes together in the end.
The irony is that, in my opinion, Curse of Longing is not bad at all.
Its only real problem is that it's not Merciful End.
If you run Doom, you run ME.
uncut wigeon
How do you guys record your runs?
bronze viper
OBS Studio.
I vaguely flirted with the idea of recording on Switch but that's A. a massive pain and B. mounted joycon play is not exactly high fidelity gaming, and if I have it docked I may as well record on PC.
I'm low key kind of sick of Personal Liability though, I wish I had the option to turn it off
And HL1 CP1 and JS1 are kind of a pain for normal play.
bronze viper
It's a fine pact, but you can only toggle it with save files lol
mossy zinc
Most people here always write about how "free" it is without actually having experience with it.
bronze viper
Like it's an absolute nightmare on Malphon
mossy zinc
Right? lol
I have two saves on my PC, so it's fine for me. Can just go to my main save when I need a break from Hell Mode.
tidal flame
Most people here always write about how "free" it is without actually having experience with it.
I have been experiencing it on a new Hell Mode save, I still maintain that it's relatively free except for some niche situations.
wraith imp
hi @mossy zinc
Just saw your @ notification.
I didn't record my 43 heat run since I don't have a setup for it.
I'm expecting to buy a computer later this year (around December probably) and it'll be configured for streaming/recording/video editing. I'll record new high heat runs and post them.
mossy zinc
Ah alright.
It's okay. Nobody's added anything to the list lol.
@hollow lynx btw
there's two synergistic choices here, but you still can only get one
That's a good thing.
No chance of being offered the wrong Duo Boon.
wild hare
Hi guys, I was wondering if there was a guide anywhere that ranks the heat modifiers by difficulty, or shows which ones to use first
mossy zinc
Haven't seen anything like that that I would recommend.
Pact difficulty actually depends a lot on your aspect, build, and skill level.
TD3 alone can be free heat for experienced players but impossible for newer players, for example.
It's easier to talk about pact synergy because you can evaluate that objectively.
E.g., JS CP DC all have anti-synergy with TD.
Er.
There's a list for pact initialisms here: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021448426749993/727076528286072863
But it's just the initials, so you figure them out quickly when you know the names.
JS = Jury Summons = more enemies
CP = Calisthenics Program = enemies have more HP
DC = Damage Control = enemies are invincible for 1 hit (or 2 hits at rank 2)
TD = Tight Deadline = timer
wild hare
That makes sense, thanks for the info ^_^ I’ll check that out and watch some streams / videos to figure out what people are running I guess 🙂
mossy zinc
Those have anti-synergy because TD means you gotta go fast, and more enemies with more HP etc. means fights will take longer.
I would recommend when starting out to just experiment and get used to all the different pacts.
wild hare
Right, I’ve been lurking in the discord for a bit, so I’m somewhat familiar with all that. Just haven’t gone above like 10 heat because 1) I’m on my record streak and 2) I have no idea what to turn up first lol
bronze viper
@tidal flame Posted something a while ago of something in that vein
mossy zinc
Personal experience with a pact beats watching a run with that pact.
I watch runs when there's something very specific that I have trouble with on an aspect that I can't figure out or where I'm not happy with my own solution.
I'll look at some top player video with that aspect to look for specifically how they dealt with that problem.
bronze viper
https://i.imgur.com/9y8mJOl.png
I don't agree with a lot of it but it exists
mossy zinc
That's like an early draft they wanted feedback on.
wild hare
Thanks a bunch for the suggestions 🙂 I’ll experiment and just keep turning things up slowly until it gets hard I guess
somber rose
important question- If I'm doing a run with UC, and I sell 1 boon in the middle of a biome, do I still have to sell one at the end?
bronze viper
Yes
somber rose
that's lame 😦
bronze viper
Just don't pick Demeter 🙃
somber rose
why?
daring hedge
dio's premium vintage is also annoyingly unsellable but at least still somewhat useful even with LC4 active
bronze viper
Somewhat useful feels slightly unfair lol. It's a Centaur Heart + random Pom
daring hedge
somewhat useful absolutely is fair when you're running dark foresight
somber rose
She has 2 tier 1 unsellable boons
@bronze viper I love rare crop though. Saved my run a few times.
bronze viper
Saved a run? Unless it hits like, dodge or dashes I'd find that hard to believe. It's great for extra damage sometimes though.
lost otter
ppl here can be more experince.And i try ask. Some one know? Poseidon cast with Duo poseidon+Ares . its works some how with Duo Poseidon + demeter?
deep schooner
I think I had the Ares / Poseidon + Demeter / Poseidon duos combo once and it was utter garbage that completely ruined my run 😠On activation it sent like 2~3 short-range chilly vortex and that was it, took the worst of both world, the opposite of a synergy. I think you can't get the two duos together now because yeah they're not made to work together.
lost otter
I think I had the Ares / Poseidon + Demeter / Poseidon duos combo once and it was utter garbage that completely ruined my run 😠On activation it sent like 2~3 short-range chilly vortex and that was it, took the worst of both world, the opposite of a synergy. I think you can't get the two duos together now because yeah they're not made to work together.
@deep schooner Very bad news to me.... i like damage from Ares+poseidon cast....even with out any weapon bonuses...i wana impruve damage some how but ..ty for answer.
fickle turtle
Hello old familiar faces
honest kernel
idk 🤔
I beat 32 before 1.0 it just gave me the achievement when I started up the game
tidal flame
man if Hades summons the Chariots and the Protection Crystals it's basically game over
bronze viper
Yeah it's not ideal
inner silo
onyx forge
Running out of time on tight deadline doesn't kill you. It just causes damage over time.
So you might have been losing health for a while during the fight and not realised.
mystic apex
maybe a weird request but has anyone streamed unseeded beowulf runs since v1.0? I'd love to see some high heat gameplay of beowulf as it's "supposed" to be played (i.e. no charged flight spam)
vorime has beowulf gameplay in his recent all weapon runs but it's any heat
still fun to watch tho
faint orbit
So I just tried my first 32 heat run, got to Hades, died like a chump... only to see the heat counter at 31 on my death screen. Oh well lol.
faint orbit
the relevant bit
I don't think I can handle EM4 hades, though
at least, not yet :v
tidal flame
well at least you know your fps is a solid 60
faint orbit
I also need to NOT take the +more hits for chaos shield
tribal wagon
32 is rough : ( Yet to beat it
patent umbra
I still haven't even looked into EM4 Hades. I'm slowly reclimbing the heat ladder on my new hell mode file. I'm tempted to put that on next heat just to see what it's like though, but I have a 32 win streak...
hollow lynx
just max out EM and nothing else
there's at least a 40% chance you'll keep your streak!
tidal flame
game is hard =.=
bronze stratus
dagger's back with another NG attempt
static plover
gl ^_^
proper kestrel
guys, what is your 63 heat setup?
i cant make it to the boss in time
bronze stratus
wew
hey
so
I've got to choose b/w athena and ares
both a miniboss room
I've got the pre-reqs for Athena legendary
static plover
what weapon?
static plover
probably athena
bronze stratus
aight
static plover
I'm not sure how good ME would be with doom on special for sword
static plover
static plover
raw tendon
considering recent buffs and nerfs, which aspect of the shield would you consider to be the best for high heat runs?
bronze stratus
far out, it took me all evening to puzzle out a decent setup for recording gameplay ffs
needed to tinker with Voicemeeter Banana and OBS so that it's setup to record the game audio but not discord audio 
now I can finally record runs when friends are in chat.
mossy zinc
@proper kestrel nobody does 63 Heat.
proper kestrel
people just don't normally talk about it 
mossy zinc
Highest clear without routing before 1.0 was 54.
bablo, Haelian, horheristo, Tailesque, and me did 50+ clears unrouted. That's five people.
onyx quiver
i cant even beat 7 minute in the first zone with 32 heat
its a combo of duplicate buff and 2 shield and 15%hp just too much piled on top of each other early game
mossy zinc
TD and JS CP DC have anti-synergy.
Unless you push much higher heat, people usually forego one or the other.
Some aspects are better at handling that then others—assuming the build is right.
onyx quiver
should i try to learn 40% attack speed its an easy 6 points
random bough
Not an 'easy' 6 points but yes you should
onyx quiver
ok ill give it a shot
random bough
Better to get used to it on something like 16 heat first
champions and hades FO2 need some getting used to
onyx quiver
i beat 16 heat but with EM3
wanton plover
the cow and chariots really pooped on my first fo2 try
onyx quiver
i cant upload screen of pact to this channel 
onyx quiver
do most people just try to go super glass cannon with 100% enemy damage and dodge everything
mossy zinc
Only place here to upload pictures is #h1-victory-boasting.
And there's no "should". You'll have to see for yourself what works best.
I don't think you need HL5 at 32 Heat. I'd go with something else, personally.
mossy zinc
I'd take BP2 for 32 Heat, personally.
slender tree
For higher heat, what are the recommended mirror setups?
mossy zinc
There's no "easy" combo for 32 Heat, anyway. You'll have to take something that you think is difficult.
And it will be difficult until you get the practice in.
onyx quiver
i cant tell what kind of enemies im fighting lol
it seems like they all die after a while
is that some mirror image thing
i know they copy and some are fakes
mossy zinc
This is what I use:
Shadow Presence
N/A because I full-time LC4
Stubborn Defiance
Greater Reflex
Boiling Blood
Infernal Soul/Stygian Soul depending on aspect
Deep Pockets
Thick Skin
Privileged Status/Family Favorite depending on build
Dark Foresight
God's Pride
Fated PersuasionFiery Presence maybe for some aspects like Hestia, though I think I take Shadow Presence more often with that. Also, I say "Privileged Status/Family Favorite depending on build," but honestly I run Family Favorite like 90% of the time. Infernal Soul I only use on Beowulf and Hera. I'd use it for Poseidon Aspect, but I don't really play that.
@slender tree
Cloners are unique to Tartarus, Burners are unique to Asphodel, Poppers are unique to Exalted Shades.
onyx quiver
should i theorize a boon build and use trinkets to try to get it
like start with athena for dash, then poseidon call
probably aphrodite special zeus attack for rail is what i prefer
mossy zinc
You'll want one Attack or Special and one Dash. Maybe instead one Attack or Special and one Call. Something like that.
Basically, one primary boon and one secondary boon.
With potential for a good Duo from those two, perhaps.
At most maybe a third boon. You don't want to get too specific. The more specific your build is, the less reliable it is.
Usually, you'd focus on just two gods.
Three is already stretching it because you might never get to see the third one.
You can hope for the third one that would maybe the seal the run, but often you'll need to make a decision which of the 2nd or 3rd that you decided on for your build you want to go for in Asphodel.
And in Elysium, normally you're not forcing gods anymore at high heat. Normally, it's just Acorn from there on.
The first boon is practically always whatever you need for DPS.
onyx quiver
oh ok i was thinking the god ones are good for forcing the base 4 moves cause they seem to have a higher appearance rate
mossy zinc
At very high heats, we'll even look for a specific hammer seed to ensure we can get the DPS we need (or rarely, for a specific Epic boon).
As in, 40+ Heat.
onyx quiver
are all the weapons viable at high heat? i know the shield is kind of considered cheesy
mossy zinc
Sure, depending on how high you want to go.
There's nothing "cheesy" at high heats tbh. There's just good strategy and bad strategy.
Can't cheese your way through 50+.
If you think a certain aspect is best for what you want to try, then that aspect is the right choice. If you're trying to push as high as you can, you'd want to put your best foot forward.
But your own experience and skill with the aspect is a very important factor there, too.
onyx quiver
tbh i cant really tell whats optimal dps for hammer or boons or anything
bronze viper
Multipliers or thick base damage modifiers are a good starting point
mossy zinc
What aspect are you trying to make work?
bronze viper
For hammers
onyx quiver
like for rail auto attack i like zeus which doesnt have a multiplier i cant tell if its good or bad dps
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike is ideal, yeah.
bronze viper
It does have a multplier. Ricochet Shot
mossy zinc
But if you're using Hestia, you'll want Heartbreak Strike or Deadly Strike.
bronze viper
And Lightning probably has the highest quantity of multiplying or base damage modifying boons (that only affect itself), so no worries there either . Static Discharge, Double Strike, Splitting Bolt are all amazing.
onyx quiver
i cant tell if hestia or eris is better either
mossy zinc
We can't either lol.
I think Hestia is better. @bronze viper probably thinks Eris is better.
But I think we both agree they're both top tier.
bronze viper
Hestia is one of the best bossers. Eris is probably just better at literally everything else
But bosses are important?
bronze viper
Wasn't sure the status of Charged Flight in 1.0. Haven't seen it in action yet lol
mossy zinc
It's still amazing. I still think Hestia was better for bosses before 1.0 simply because it's more mobile.
But, I guess they were pretty close lol.
I ran into issues because of DC2 with Beowulf, too, anyway.
Vs Hades.
bronze viper
Lol, yeah, though to be fair Hestia had nothing like Dread Flight
But that's not relevant at highest heat
proper kestrel
Is it worth trying guan yu for hell heats?
mossy zinc
Sure.
bronze viper
Is it Level 5? lol
proper kestrel
i mean, 40+
My first 32 clear was with guan yu
But i still feel like its weak against bosses
bronze viper
If you can clear anything with 32 you can do it at 40
mossy zinc
First 40 Heat clear was done by horheristo with Guan Yu.
bronze viper
It's not that different
proper kestrel
and well, im aiming for 50
mossy zinc
I'd clear 40 before I tried 50, but that's just me.
bronze viper
GY at 50 is a beast. It's a beast for every aspect, but GY has 50% health, sliced by 30% more because of SD
mossy zinc
To be frank, if you're asking if it's good enough for 50, you're not ready for 50. Just my personal assessment.
bronze viper
Which means at HL5 you will get one shot by next to everything
mossy zinc
But if you want to get into top 5 high heat, good luck.
bronze viper
At 50 you're probably also running at last RI2, which is another -25 max health
onyx quiver
is -1 boon choice an easy take at 32 or kinda screw you over
bronze viper
Yeah it's pretty harmless, if you ignore the 3rd boon as having been a possibility. As it stands, you can see it, so there is real emotional damage :3
proper kestrel
Thanks for bit advise guys
I still wonder how i should come up with final boss, cause positioning there is something... different on 50 heat
i probably should check these runs before i even try. I also have huge problems clearing elisium archers and some asphodel rooms fast enough to keep up with tight deadline.
Also, there were 50 heat with EM4 yet?
bronze viper
At 50 heat GY, one of your subgoals should be: kill every boss while receiving a single digit number of hits (assuming Acorn). With FO2 and EM4 on.
You could just seed for Charged Skewer, and create a temp save if you're on PC at each of the bosses and grind them out. Make sure HL5 FO2 EM4 and CP2 are on. Since it's GY, you do not want DC, it will be one of the last pacts you enable.
No, 48 with Rama is the highest EM4 atm
proper kestrel
question is... should i focus on attack or charged attack builds on gy?
or just special
bronze viper
For highest heat, Charged Skewer only
At 32-40 Divine Strike spin builds are fine, but as HP and pack density increase, that build is slow
proper kestrel
if only charged attack were faster to start
it doesnt deal damage for like half a sec after you throw it, right?
Also, why divine strike? Isnt it already destroys projectiles?
mossy zinc
Immediate release is faster than regular throw with Guan Yu.
proper kestrel
oh, thats why special builds
bronze viper
No, special builds because full charge has base 135 damage, with a huge width and pierce. It's just like bow, you have to learn to position to actually be able to leverage the charge.
Also re; Divine Strike. Normal attack doesn't destroy melee attacks :3
You can just hide in your spin and charge another spin and chain them like that (requires Quick Spin)
proper kestrel
Amazing
swift stratus
Any good guides out there for a 32 heat run?
mossy zinc
Nope.
bronze viper
There's a lot of youtube content of people walking through the logic of 32 heat runs though.
mossy zinc
But are they good?
forest lichen
use a shield and play like a coward
alternatively 100% dodge meme build
I'm gonna try full heat except tight deadline with zeus shield
it won't go well but I'm gonna try it
bronze viper
But are they good?
@mossy zinc Lol, admittedly Haelian still loves to meme at 32, and I haven't watched much of JawlessPaul so I can't say
jade wharf
um guys i know this isnt related to high heat runs
but why can't i give nectar to hades, i got the end credit scene,i thought after that i'll be able to
but nope
jade wharf
my bad
uncut wigeon
High Heat Hangovers
bronze viper
Pools of purging gaming lol.
Exclusive Access is Dio + Poseidon right? That's not TOO big of an ask without God keepsakes lol. If only it worked on random poms from Nectar or the keepsake
mossy zinc
No such thing as Nectar with Dark Foresight.
wanton plover
who are some of the best youtubers to watch for like 40+ heat? i follow bablo, wriste, haelian rn
and tailesque
bronze viper
For 1.0? I think Haelian posted his first 40 like yesterday or something. There isn't much content out there. Tailesque has a 48 with Rama on his channel.
mossy zinc
Nyaanyaa Mewmew is the best.
bronze viper
Give it a couple of weeks for people's lives to settle and find time to practice and record. Game is hard lol. There wasn't a flood of 40+ content creators out there even before 1.0
wanton plover
i see thanks
mossy zinc
I don't really watch anybody lol.
trim sigil
40+ remains the territory of occasional wins
mossy zinc
Resqtoaster, Tailesque, bablo, Wriste13, Krashercorr, and me for Malphon. Horheristo, bablo, and me for Beowulf. Tailesque for Hades. ledgerdamayn for Rama. Etc.
wanton plover
sadly horheristo channel got hacked
trim sigil
At least most content creators are too focused on auditory to push high heat, and those who push high heat are too focused on improving gameplay instead of making popular channel
mossy zinc
There's a pinned spreadsheet that has all the 40+ runs pre-1.0 with links to the players' YouTube or Twitch channels.
trim sigil
And ye hor was hacked twice in a row by now, currently awaiting 2nd recovery
thankfully yt team this time was fast on response
bronze viper
I separated my gaming Youtube from my channel attached to my name IRL a while back before applying for jobs, so my links are dead, but yeah, I have the new channel links whenever that becomes relevant (probably when I post a new run lol).
mossy zinc
I might do something during fall break.
honest kernel
I'd have a 40+ run on my yt if obs didn't mess it up 
some ppl also just stream I guess
tidal flame
with Rama?
feral spire
how do i even get a high heat run?
bronze viper
You will have to rephrase that question. What do you mean?
feral spire
i mean i can hardly finish a heat 3 run but i need heat 8 for that skully thing (no idea what it is) but how do i do that?
bronze viper
You keep playing and get a little better and learn a little bit more each time
There is no singular "how"
You can do it with whatever you want.
mossy zinc
You can ask for advice with builds and stuff in #h1-builds-and-combat.
feral spire
i geuss also i still need to upgrade most of the chamber things but i dont have diamonds and farming seems to take forever 🙂
bronze viper
Don't think of it as farming. If you just keeping playing you'll naturally accrue resources. Ask in the other channel for specific build questions to maybe prod you in a better direction
mossy zinc
"High heat" refers more to like 32+ Heat. So a lot of people who can give you help at 8 Heat won't see your questions here.
There's a build guide pinned in #h1-builds-and-combat that can help you figure out the base weapons.
trim sigil
(petition to officially define 17+ heat as high heat since 16 is the last milestone a regular player will be seeking, in a form of achievement)
mossy zinc
Otherwise, the best most general advice I can give is learn to dash deliberately but also a lot. Don't just spam dash.
bronze viper
What? 20, 25, and 32 are definitely milestones
For normal play
20 is finishing bounties, 25 is finishing bounties in Hell Mode, and 32 is last statue
feral spire
i'll ask in other channel then thank you
mossy zinc
If they did that, I'd ask for a channel for very-high-heat-strategies tbh.
trim sigil
I mean, 32+ is also fair call, but it's also deliberately higher than common discussions there
mossy zinc
For more than that. I'm just saying 17 as high heat is way too low honestly.
Well, if somebody comes here asking for 8 Heat advice, that doesn't mean 8 Heat is high heat.
trim sigil
It doesn't, I never said that
bronze viper
32 is the safest bet because as there is no in game reward or acknowledgement for doing so, if you're trying for 33+ then you're probably doing it just for the challenge.
We welcome all masochists here.
mossy zinc
What about sadists who want to put snobby high-heat mobs in their place?
Most of the discussion in this channel has been 32+ or 40+.
Just once in awhile, there are some newer players asking for help with lower heats.
bronze viper
Sometimes the question are still valid though fi they're asking about what pacts are easiest or whatever. That info should still transfer well to normal high heat ranges.
mossy zinc
Yeah, sort of. I get why they're asking here.
I don't think I can help too much except for pointing out bad pact synergies. What's easy for me sub-20 is very differerent from what's easy for newer players.
bronze viper
Also I don't mind when newer players start poking around this channel because it means there's increasing interest amongst new players to do high heat.
mossy zinc
I don't really mind, either. It was us 40+ players asking for a high heat channel, though. I'm not really interested in the channel becoming primarily 17-ish or whatever. Like, that's the lowest I even go to nowadays.
Some high-heat discussion may be relevant to lower heats, but it doesn't work as well the other way around.
dim jetty
As a console player that just got hades last week when it launched on switch, I think 178 runs and doing 16+ heat with every aspect is a huge accomplishment. I haven't got anywhere near the 32 I need for the last statue though. I'm still testing builds and finding out what I like.
And I want to see what the 40+ players discuss here, so it can help me climb.
rocky mauve
around 16 is the zone for casual gameplay for me, I started trying for 32 today and it has been rough
mossy zinc
16 to 32 is quite the jump, yeah.
uncut wigeon
The hard part of 32+ is FO2 EM3
bronze viper
I can yolo Eris or Bow[anything] with 32+, but for other weapons my yolo range is 20-25
mossy zinc
You don't need EM3 at 32. I keep telling people EM3 is a bad idea.
uncut wigeon
The more you get used to the game being full nutty, the less mistakes you make on regular encounters
bronze viper
Actually, nvm I'll add all Rails to that, I just haven't unlocked them again yet
uncut wigeon
FO2 is definitely playing Hades withouy limiters kn
And Benefits Package is asking the game to troll you every once in a while
Blessed heat option.
mossy zinc
The more you get used to the game being full nutty, the less mistakes you make on regular encounters
lol I play so much worse at low heats.
uncut wigeon
Me too
rocky mauve
benefits package is fine until you get a room full of speed boosted witches with fo2
bronze viper
I can't go back to Death Defiance. I play sooo ignorant in normal encounters at low heat that I just burn through them all
mossy zinc
Yeah, I just have LC4 FO2 with SD on full-time. And TD3 normally.
uncut wigeon
The game feels shper slow and non-threatening without pacts tbough
bronze viper
LC0 + Stubborn Defiance is too stressful too because sometimes I'll see Athena in Asphodel but I have 100% health
What do
mossy zinc
Which adds up to 16. Hence that being my lowest heat.
uncut wigeon
I'll try SD tonight
mossy zinc
I also like HS because suiciding can take so long otherwise lol.
rocky mauve
I think i'm gonna give SD a shot too for my next 32 heat attempts
bronze viper
Proper stretching is key
uncut wigeon
So LC4, EM2, FO2 and some other stuff
Get tour cheeks used to clenching
😂 😂 😂
bronze viper
LC4, EM2, FO2, BP2, and TD2 are a good start for general prepping
daring hedge
MM and BP2 are good ones to spice up the run and get you used to variants too
bronze viper
Oh right, + MM
mossy zinc
The game feels shper slow and non-threatening without pacts tbough
That's why I don't do speedruns. I'm more into clearing being the end goal than trying to speed through zero-challenge runs.
dim jetty
My "yolo" (lol) range definitely keeps climbing. I try new builds and hunt for my last duo boons for the prophecy at around 16 now... but soon it will be higher? I definitely haven't hit a difficulty wall yet, and the only reason I'm not doing higher is that I want resources faster to finish maxing out aspects. Every run I do just gets another heat level for the bounties. Forced overtime, Extreme Measures, and Benefits Package are my favorite so far.
I'm also on Hell Mode, so I get an extra heat level from the auto-protection turned off.
bronze viper
Weird how some of the MM fights get strictly easier, like the (snake?)Stone boss in Tartarus. The traps make it very easy to one shot him.
I have no idea what MM does in Styx
dim jetty
What is MM?
mossy zinc
I usually do test runs for builds with whatever pacts I want to test it for . . . which, I think, commonly ends up being like 27–35? Something like that.
dim jetty
Trap damage?
bronze viper
Middle Management, extra challenges for mini bosses
mossy zinc
When I'm testing things for high heat.
rocky mauve
it usually adds a second bossed up enemy on styx
daring hedge
oh yeah, and MM witches' circle just adds non-destructible projectiles, while can still be deflected anyways lol
dim jetty
Oh cool
rocky mauve
I take a lot of damage on the new mm barge of death
bronze viper
Witches are relatively terrifying without deflect
Or some easy mode way to kill projectiles like new bow special
uncut wigeon
New bow special?
mossy zinc
MM adds more enemies to the minibosses in the Temple of Styx. Like the Dire Satyr will have a Dire Snakestone spawn, for example.
bronze viper
Lol, old bow special was so slow you'd end up eating the projectiles for breakfast instead of destroying them
daring hedge
yeah, i don't think i ever have much trouble there generally because the witches have such modest health apiece
rocky mauve
only time the witches get annoying is when they sit on top of lava and you have a low range weapon
mossy zinc
Witches with Malphon and no Deflect is not the most fun lol. Don't think I've ever died in that chamber, though.
bronze viper
My trigger level when normal Gorgon heads get knockbacked to corners of the map
mossy zinc
Witches miniboss, I mean.
rocky mauve
My trigger level when normal Gorgon heads get knockbacked to corners of the map
and then they petrify you on top of lava as you try to rush them in frustration
mossy zinc
Thankfully I'm a Beowulf main now.
daring hedge
oh i agree there, yeah, it's tough to really avoid taking some damage with no-deflect fists, especially without long knuckle
bronze viper
As absurd as Breaching Cross is, it just seems insane to not take Long Knuckle at high heat
mossy zinc
I had a Long Knuckle seed + Owl Pendant when I was working on 50 Heat, yeah. Not that I finished that.
bronze viper
Eww, malphon at 50. Glhf
mossy zinc
Zag Aspect.
Ended up switching to Talos on the same seed, getting Breaching Cross instead, and doing 45 Heat lol.
rocky mauve
i'm still mad about the nerf on zag's fists
is a special build with demeter any good? I never use that aspect
bronze viper
My assumption is that they saw the bug, but also saw that Zag fist was pretty popular regardless, and decided to just take it away instead of fixing it? But I know at least for me I used it because of the placebo effect
mossy zinc
I assure you that 99% of players will never notice any real difference after that nerf.
I did believe it actually worked lol.
But that aside, the first hit mattered a lot for me for Deflects.
rocky mauve
indeed and they seemed generally faster even if it was not fully true
bronze viper
To be fair, the initial punch is definitely the one you can feel the most
mossy zinc
Yeah.
daring hedge
i think i never used it much at all because the lead from the first hit was so small (and i don't run deflect fists as much as nyaa) that just going demeter for the potential of charged specials felt more worthwhile
rocky mauve
I used it a lot too because the dodge build was fun, I can definitely feel it
daring hedge
yeah, i don't mean to write off its dodge bonus entirely; i just personally didn't value it a ton
mossy zinc
Yeah, I don't care too much for the Dodge. It was always just a nice extra in my mind.
bronze viper
Dodge is that weird thing that's invaluable but also definitionally unreliable
mossy zinc
It's +25 effective HP at 100 HP.
It's actually worth more in a run now that Dark Foresight is buffed because we get a lot more HP in a typical run.
rocky mauve
wait dark foresight got buffed? that's why I suddenly see it mentioned
daring hedge
it's kind of absurdly good, now that i've used it enough. the biggest downside that is still definitely felt, is that you get almost no key reroll charges
so you have to make your initial ones count
rocky mauve
hmm, I do rely on keys since I don't spend all that darkness on the last mirror talent but I have to try it out, it felt useless before 1.0
daring hedge
yeah, it apparently wasn't working as intended, which they fixed while also buffing its max value
mossy zinc
They maybe overdid it lol.
bronze viper
Additional downside is that RI1 hurts really bad now lol
Instead of being relatively free 2 heat
rocky mauve
RI is such a brutal condition, I don't know how it's possible to beat the game at full heat
bronze viper
It was proven possible in Blood Price, but TD3 is... constraining
rocky mauve
+EM4, ouch
bronze viper
I'm of the opinion that it's likely not even TAS possible to do 63 heat
rocky mauve
Even max heat -TD would be very commendable thou very slow and boring
mossy zinc
"Proven possible" as in it's possible to win the lottery.
bronze viper
Yeah but I don't think there's a lottery for 1.0
mossy zinc
I still haven't seen EM4 at all, so no idea.
rocky mauve
It's definitely a horrible way to raise your heat
bronze viper
It's controllable though, you more or less know the range of things that can happen to you with EM4.
mossy zinc
ME + Stubborn Roots are practically required, I would say.
Not much else besides ME that can beat TD3 JS3 etc. reliably.
bronze viper
I'll wait to see someone proof of concept 59/60 Heat with TD2.
That should be pretty "easily" (as in... we can actually figure out a combination of boons with execution) possible.
mossy zinc
Stubborn Roots at max heat means you need to equip Lucky Tooth at some point.
That's a very real issue lol.
rocky mauve
these are the moments I wish you could setup your "perfect" run
bronze viper
Any duo boon at RI4 means you're rolling some pretty serious dice
these are the moments I wish you could setup your "perfect" run
@rocky mauve You can always route
mossy zinc
Hmm. Duo Boons aren't that uncommon with AP2 and RI1.
But asking for 2 lol.
With Lucky Tooth instead of a god keepsake.
bronze viper
And you have to get Roots in Tartarus
mossy zinc
That's asking for a lottery jackpot.
bronze viper
I think it's more reasonable to assume we eventually master the game where hitless high heat runs are attainable, and just roll dice for Merciful End
mossy zinc
The 57 had even more than that. So many free rooms in Elysium and stuff lol.
rocky mauve
I don't think human error can allow hitless heat runs
but there are some crazy people out there
mossy zinc
Why can't any of my unrouted runs ever go like that.
bronze viper
I mean, speed runners around the world would beg to differ lol
It's just a function of effort, patience, and time
mossy zinc
EM3 is too unpredictable for reliable no-hit.
rocky mauve
I don't watch hades content but I would imagine speedrunners use 0 heat
mossy zinc
Hades speedrunners get hit a lot, too.
rocky mauve
still, higher heat makes it more likely to get hit
I don't see how taking damage slows your run
usually at least
bronze viper
Lol, I'm not saying it would be easy, but if you math out the odds of getting Stubborn Roots, and Merciful End by Asphodel vs. just not getting hit, it seems a LOT more reasonable all of a sudden
mossy zinc
It slows your run if you're running High Confidence.
rocky mauve
right, I forget that talent exists
bronze viper
It's not that it slows your run (though you do get stunned), but RI4 means you have like... 3 or 4 damage-resulting mistakes you can make period in a run
Without Roots
mossy zinc
RI4 + LC4.
You can "heal" with Centaur Hearts.
Maybe the key is Zag Sword + Cursed Slash.
bronze viper
Lol, doubtful, since any Slugger enemy or EM3/EM4 will just hit you for more than your max health
bronze viper
lol
daring hedge
i'm sure there are people who might find the third phase the hardest, but honestly with EM4, first phase is still the most difficult imo
those summons
bronze viper
No more chariots pls
Oh god pls why
I haven't actually gotten hit by ||Cerberus|| yet... but it's the most common question I see about the fight. I instinctively go to bottom right of the screen. Or maybe I've just gotten lucky with dash timings?
daring hedge
i do think bottom right is the most reliable way to mostly avoid the target circles yeah
i do that and only get hit like 20% of the time
because you still can get circles there, but they're way less dense
bronze viper
Oh, okay so it's not constant where they fall
I find them hard to see, it's like an ocean of particle effects
daring hedge
yeah lol
i got hit by one in the 48 but i honestly couldn't even tell while it was happening in the moment
especially since hades popped into existence and spun at the same time
celest abyss
I am so mad
so bloody close to the 32 heat kill on Hades
and my dodge button sticks Dx
betrayed by my explitive xbox controller
bronze viper
TD3 is adventurous for Hestia
bronze viper
I'd probably move the points to EM4, remove RI1, and jack up HL
It's pretty straightforward to not get hit too much with Hestia
bronze viper
Practice :3
bronze viper
RI1 means you don't get Dark Foresight. It's a fair tradeoff for 2 ranks of HL. Preference.
random bough
yeah actually i did notice there was a pretty large number of blue laurel
but i think with hestia even a good heartbreak strike and maybe divine dash is enough
is it ok to give up just before I die for a seed ;-;
bronze viper
Lol that's what we all do
random bough
starting with ricochet fire is pretty good
bronze viper
lmao. You could always max HL
random bough
I did, but im not taking EM4
bronze viper
Ah.
random bough
wow i won with 8 hp
lol
i made the stupid mistake of trying to go hit him during laser
made it a lot closer than it had to be
i also took fated authority and i took shady 
there's no way i could've given up in the heat of the moment so good thing i didnt die lol
daring hedge
very nice lol
daring hedge
i almost gave up in tartarus a little while ago on a run where i'm super glad i didn't
shaking my fist angrily at TD3
random bough
i didnt think id win the run so i didnt record lol
daring hedge
just wanted to fill my min heat with 45 and it got the heart rend double edge dream
random bough
hestia is probably the easiest aspect for 40 though
and i had to rely on divine dash
and... i had 8 hp
so a lot to improve on