h1-high-heat-strategies

[azure kayak]

I've been trying to do a fresh file first run first win for some reasons. after a long time gave up and tried to settle for a second and then 3rd run and didnt got it.

I was certain I had everything I needed damage wise but its crazy how tanky everything felt. especially the bosses.

[upper juniper]

“Everything you needed damagewise” were you building Merciful End or smthing else

[azure kayak]

I meant on the second and 3rd run but even merciful end felt like it took forever with the champions and the styx on that one. I managed to reach the styx but died at like chamber 3 or something

[upper juniper]

The nature of FF is your damage is generally just abysmal

[azure kayak]

yeah... I dont get what makes the difference. Cause even with using boiling blood or backstab. I can still do pretty crazy damage

[upper juniper]

family favourites and greater reflex go far

So do hammers, hermes, and chaos

dark foresight also gives you a load more gold laurels

for your power

[azure kayak]

I have to wonder if there isnt some kind of mechanic to hinder us from succeding too early like Hades 2 but it just way less oblivious

[upper juniper]

There’s nothing hidden

it’s just that you lack like everything

No mirror, no house upgrades, no hermes, no hammers, no chaos, no keepsakes, no companions

That’s a lot

no aspects either

The set god-pool is technically there but it’s more to your build consistencies benefit

[upper juniper]

No calls

[azure kayak]

Well I guess lighting on special of zag shield might not be good. tbf I almost never played with the normal aspect.

[upper juniper]

If you end up at FF shield then you’re probably just crutching getting charged shot

[azure kayak]

FF ?

[upper juniper]

Fresh file

[azure kayak]

oh. I didnt have charged shot or anything. I just thought it would be better then sword. And for awhile it was fine. I even got the legendary during sticks. but the heroes the styxs and even hades felt like pulling teeths lol. I could have won. I just chocked it in the second half of final phase

then I wanted to give dio on special a shot and ended up with more of a Ares dash build weirdly lol

[upper juniper]

Blade dash or tidal dash can’t really go wrong for low energy build around them ngl

just pom them

and you can just focus on dashes for damage

[azure kayak]

Well the funny thing is I didnt do that. I just happen to have the rarity buff hit and it went heroic grade. and I tought the lightning on my attack was doing more work then I thought until I noticed the real reason

[forest token]

well without ME it would take a lot longer lmao

ME is gonna be your best shot at clearing

also if you don't want to do it on the literal first run, iirc you generally just die on the 2nd run bc that's guaranteed zeus start

and then you play the third run, where you get a guaranteed hammer start

granted that's more along the lines of speedrunning, but zeus start doesn't really benefit any of the available weapons

i think you can get shield on the third run, so you kinda just have to hope you get charged shot by then

which is gonna be your best shot

first and second runs you try and get enough darkness and keys for mirror and shield respectively

[south violet]

Echoing what's been said before:

• h1 fresh file is pretty much a solved game as far as identifying the difficult parts and how to counteract goes.
• Merciful End is the main thing one is looking for there, however I'd consider Divine Protection about equal in value to ME (outside of fresh file speedrunning).
• zagshield benefits a LOT from Charged Shot. When exploring the possibilities for fresh file shield I tried ME (which was even more inconsistent than cshot's 1/13 odds) and someone else tried using Explosive Return as a backup-hammer (which ended up being significantly weaker, slower and more difficult to play).

[azure kayak]

Yeah I came to that conclusion. Im just suprise on how long it takes and how difficult it is.

Almost had it on my second run but skill issue on the hades fight plus im not good with the regular shield it seems

[ashen garnet]

Also FO0/FF Hades requires some practice after getting used to FO2

[azure kayak]

Yeah. I feel like I'm just ruining my brain freshly getting used to FO1-2.

I definitely mess up some iFrames on the spin. Playing scared. Etc.

But I dont think im good at it anymore.

One thing that shocked me the most his how some enemies hitboxes can be like "frame 1" near them of their animations or some jankyness. Like I had a lout dash into a piece of of wall in the middle of the room and but the animation was still going and just going behind him I got hit.

Or getting surprised and puzzle in Elysium how the swordsmans seems to not stay in stun damage for long or just how to deal with the big chariots safely. I try to just hit the chariot and dash behing but I would still get hit somehow.

[left prism]

Oh yeah fo2 bright swords are nasty

Worse with the speeder perk

You will get frame 2'd if you simply approach them

[south violet]

The enemy behaves a bit differently depending on the attack queued up at the time, and there are thus sometimes ways to know what might be happening:

Dashing around (even if occasionally walking) means quick swipe is queued up. You can force the brightsword to attack in this state before it ever gets near zag by staggering it (with a cast for example). Do keep in mind that this can trigger the brightsword to dash multiple times in quick succession (in seemingly random directions?), which can cause the enemy to fling itself towards zag at mach 5 despite zag doing the right thing at the time.
Like every other enemy type in hades, every attack leads to a different attack cooldown duration. One can thus also avoid the quick swipes by memorizing the attack cooldowns and pre-emptively dashing at the time where the brightsword could initiate a quick swipe.
Don't need a tip for the slow swipes, those are avoidable.

This doesn't prevent all BS but it does help a little.

[ashen garnet]

They can still butt-slam Zagreus for a short time upon bouncing on obstacles, it's probably designed on purpose

[azure kayak]

Usually I dont notice it cause I try to just poke them with insane dps and zip across the room if I can. Fresh file me made me realize many things about the ennemies I dont have time to notice cause either too much stuff is going on or dps goes brrrrrr

[azure kayak]

I dont know if its on purpose, but yes this is what I got hit by. I was so upset since I really try to not get hit in tartarus in a FF.

[azure kayak]

I didnt know about all that. Wow. I was just hitting them with zag sword thinking. Ok. Its just the one I'm safe. Just. Atk, atk, special like you did to all others. Then I was like... What happen. Omg the damage. Whyyyyy

[south violet]

https://scientific-paprika-b40.notion.site/Hades-Fresh-File-First-Run-Guide-2d647029f5c34252acbd38ad5e54b221#96c1e7b29e1c419c89f8b5dce9d54f8e this is what Sophie's Fresh File guide has to say about brightswords.

[azure kayak]

Imma look at it later. I think I might just give up on it. I dont know why I hyper focused so hard on it.

But I almost I feel like trying a run with the same mirror perks as my second run on my main file. No chaos gate.

Etc.. just to see if it really does feel the same

[sly cove]

i won on my 5th run with shield and stubborn roots

shoutout stubborn roots the best duo in the game

[azure kayak]

Well I was about to say my build suck then when I checked banana's guide I realized I had the right idea. It's just unlevel shield of zag with just the double dashing (and 1 DD) really depends on summon, hammer and epic on atk to make the dps kinda crazy.

Also boiling blood + Familly favorite for that weapon is more of an help then I thought.

But more importantly Dark Foresight is busted.

[left prism]

Fork found in kitchen

[azure kayak]

I mean it in a way I have a new found appreciation for it even tho I knew it was strong

Also I learned that some build isnt a matter of just knowing what to put on attack and special to make it work. And even knowing about summon to make the dps work better. It was such a pain to get it work without dark foresight.

Never got the duo boon for Zeus + Aphro replicating Fresh file conditions (as best as I could)

[azure kayak]

I'm starting to realize ... when in doubt... Smoldering Air

[vague patio]

is there a guide to set up backups on a steam deck? The descriptions I've found online talk about windows and mac

[shy plinth]

Strong play

[vague patio]

I don't know how I managed this, but I breezed through 32 heat sword with 5 sack, when I would have said sword was by far my most uncomfortable weapon and I'm always running up against the timer in 32 heat

[sly cove]

nice work

[keen panther]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1083406633591382019/1436028419883139297/image.png?ex=690e1d2f&is=690ccbaf&hm=f5edfc2cc2d7555e8899224c878ce1de29469e454258dc5bca68bee5b3be4039&
h40 got hands damn

[forest token]

it do be like that

is that nemisis lmao

[left prism]

Def nem

[keen panther]

yup

stacking up 1092388 dash-strike buffs is really good

[nimble valve]

what heat should i do after 16

[forest token]

could do 32 if you want lmao

bounties end at 20, and the difficulty btwn 16 and 20 isn't that much if you dont take horrid pacts

[bleak frost]

yeah i went from 16 to 20 and i probably couldve gone to 24 without much more difficulty than 20

[nimble valve]

yea i went to 18 then 32

second tried it

is there any heat afer 32 thats worth it to it

[verbal atlas]

50 is a decent stopping point after 32 if you want to chase that

[nimble valve]

yea i might try get 50

then get hades 2

[vague patio]

2nd run 32heat? My goodness

[nimble valve]

it was with hestia rail, so kinda op build

with the shackle and no boons on attack

[vague patio]

Still awesome. It took me a million it felt like to get my first 32 heat clear

[nimble valve]

thank you

[azure kayak]

I got a quick question about rush delivery + hyper sprint.

Is the bonus damage from rush delivery always passively there or do I need to activate it doing a dash or something ?

[verbal atlas]

you need to be dash for it to activate as its based on current movespeed for RD, however hyper sprint's move speed buff for the purposes lasts longer than listed

[azure kayak]

Oh I see, I did notice at some point Lernie's health took a huuuuge dip all of the sudden and it almost felt like my dash was the cause. I guess right and I didnt understood Rush delivery like thought. thx !

[nimble valve]

should i switch to mouse and keyboard for 50 heat?

for aspect of hestia

[hoary pasture]

No, you will not get any advantage from switching. You should play with what you're most comfortable with, 50 heat needs you to be on point.

Should focus more on the pacts you go for, some combos can be a pain especially at 50 heat

[nimble valve]

Yeah when I see the shield dudes with the blue hearts

I know it's wraps

Just a game of luck

[south violet]

in case you don't already, knowing the proper attack-rotation (attached below, https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1142115080809488464/1253304216034869339/image.png?ex=6911c682&is=69107502&hm=1a2da5570a5b32771cd8b8eb70c69ee27e1284881bd75a58580e05c95b5df531&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=718&height=153) will help (as opposed to just attack-spam, which is what almost everyone starts out doing).

other things to note:

• hestia is one of the rare aspects that can handle approval process 2 perfectly fine even unmodded if you start shattered shackle and take the first decent attack you get offered, switching off shackle once you have one.
• while it may be tempting to disable benefits package to get rid of savior-encounters, it's usually considered much easier to turn down calisthenics program and jury summons as much as possible.
• hestia's main concern is the 2nd half of the run, as such I would advise against using extreme measures 4 as that fight has a fair bit more health than regular dad.
• hestia is one of the only non-shield aspects that can get away with routine inspection 3, however this requires knowing enemy and boss-timings by heart because you're not getting more than 1 dash much of the time in that case.

[south violet]

@honest kernel once you've done it again, feel free to submit to the community unmodded high heat spreadsheet. it's the most complete collection of heat-records out there. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?gid=1855514336#gid=1855514336

[honest kernel]

oh theres a thing for that ? owo

ive mostly just been alone since uh well, i think i texted a bit at my old acc here

i think i had a bow speedrun around here since i like the weapon lol

i dont rmemeber tho -v-

[honest kernel]

damn uptil now theres only 3 unseeded and weirdly one seeded why lmfao

it couldve been 2 if i submitted, sad

and i only had a screenshot too but oh well -w-

[honest kernel]

wait what is this speedrunning modpack

i did not explore this community as much lmfao

[south violet]

It's a set of mods available at https://www.speedrun.com/hades/resources/62jwo that make the game more fair to do runs with. It removes some major rng-checks one would reset for anyway to save on time to get a viable run, alongside other Quality-of-Life changes.

[honest kernel]

a, tf

i would have loved that

i almost got world record on bow if i submitted my bow speedrun, sadg

wellp, ok time to actually make some progress ig -w-

i got like 11:5x if i rmemeber correctly

checking speedrun.com rn

[south violet]

do note that the modded heat boards are separate from the unmodded heat sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-eAhomftrsnM8BV6TMA4CA58wneoBLcAvlQXiYrGAnU/edit?gid=1775740672#gid=1775740672

[honest kernel]

is there any beenfits from modding the seeded run on high heat ?

dude i barely rememebr anything about this game, except hating casts

its so ass(i just hate it lol)

hades 2 is more fresh in my brain rn

[south violet]

modded seeded is like the least played thing in this game. there is no benefit to playing modded when playing seeded because all rng-help modded provides is also provided (and then some) by seeded.

[honest kernel]

yeah

so i dont get it hahaha

whats the point

[south violet]

baj's seeded 64 run (from the unmodded heat sheet) uses such a pre-planned route.

[honest kernel]

might... use... that ... then ?

idk -w-

[south violet]

for short (I am oversimplifying here), computers are very bad at generating truly random numbers. consequently, the most common approach is to write a function that takes a number - called a "seed" - as input, and outputs a different number. since the concept is fully mathematical, a given input-number will always output the same result (making this way of generating random numbers deterministic). the game determines what "seed" to use for every chamber depending on how many calls to this rng-function happened beforehand.
As such, the seed depends on what actions zagreus takes. it takes a lot of practice to learn such a route, though most of it is remembering instructions and doing stuff in the right order.

[honest kernel]

dam ur still typin, sheesh

[upper juniper]

You almost got the speedrun for highheat zag bow (like the 32, 40 or 50 heat categories)? 🤨

as opposed to regular anyheat

where the speedrun time is like some amount below 6 minutes last I checked

[south violet]

Wait I missed that LOL

Any of this being remotely real feels very unlikely

[hoary pasture]

I'd believe they have a 11:5x run

[verbal atlas]

^

[south violet]

Yeah except that part

[sly cove]

LOL

[shy plinth]

They immediately left the server btw, after claiming in a diff channel that they'd done a max heat run too

(no screenshot of course)

[amber holly]

Man, I picked up H1 after almost 9 months. Pick my run back up. Down to my last sliver of health. Just about to beat Hades.

...Only for him to get back up with full health. 😭

6 heat. So not nearly anything super spicy but like.

I got trolled lmao

[languid notch]

How did you not know about his second phase if you’ve unlocked heat?

[amber holly]

...Because its been nearly 9 months since Ive played H1?

[honest crypt]

how hard is 64 heat seeded

[south violet]

rng-wise free since every run is the same assuming you do the same stuff, but pretty hard mechanically still

like, you need to be able to consistently beat EM3 and EM4 zeus to where you're taking at most 5 (maybe 6 if you have enough hp for it) hits (and the other bosses in preferably 0), while being aggressive enough and good enough at the game to not time out (in rooms too).

though, if they actually meant "segmented" (making a savestate after every room) when saying "seeded" or even worse used a mod to give the shield like 100k base damage per move, then it'd of course be completely free. in the former case just reload the save every time (no routing required, and infinite attempts at every chamber), and in the latter case I don't think I need to even explain why this is free.

[honest crypt]

I'm totally not sure why the latter case is free, 100k base damage looks reasonable, can you explain

[azure kayak]

Guess who just got his second win on em4 heat 32 with Zag sword ! This guy ! 😄

#h1-victory-boasting message

[shy plinth]

Good work

[azure kayak]

Thank you

I after watching some healian video, learning stuff here and messing with the game a bit.

This morning I had an idea for a meme build that would still be viable somehow and not just funny (although it requires a couples things to go right)

First try of the day too. Thats why im even more happy about this too.

[vague patio]

do people do high heat seeded runs?

that's kind of cool

[south violet]

not really, usually it's just "I don't feel like installing modpack and forgot to show a death"

modded is much more frequently ran than seeded unmodded is

[azure kayak]

Off topic but gg on ur run !

Personally after watching some Haelian doing heat 50+ on YouTube i got some insights on the tactics for it so I gave it a shot to see how well I can do it.

I barely got out of Tartarus once. 50 heat got hands. If i was able to reach the championa consistently I would have considered to grind it out for bragging right. But I drop the project.

Well going back to you. Because of that I have an idea of what it takes to the super high heats. Very impressive!

[sly cove]

going for a legit seeded run takes effort

especially because td3 is near free heat thats actually hard without a route preplanned

[forest blaze]

im trying to go for my first 32, anyone can give me some tips and builds advices?

[hoary pasture]

There is a guide pinned in this channel

[forest blaze]

thank you

[hoary pasture]

Np. It's quite comprehensive but if something's unclear feel free to ask

[forest blaze]

well i did two runs using the hidden aspect for the bow, keep in mind i had done 16 twice only before and then directly to 32 so it was quite a challenge, in my first run i reached last boss (first phase) and in the second run i died to second boss lol

it was a bit overwhelming going from 8 to 16 to 32 in a matter of 4 runs

[hoary pasture]

What does your pact look like? You are making it to the end so it's probably fine but it's worth checking if certain things are making it unnecessarily difficult. Otherwise its mostly a matter of trying again until you get it. If there is something specific you struggle with in the boss fight maybe someone can give some pointers

[shy plinth]

Ya sharing your pact and mirror is a good step to check - guide is quite thorough on both of these but we're also happy to help

It is quite common for people to build 32 pacts that are way harder than they look

[forest blaze]

cant post pictures here it seems

im a bit new to this server, maybe i need to get a speicific role or something?

[shy plinth]

Nah just how this channel is

Post the pics elsewhere and link them here, imgur works for example

[forest blaze]

final boss run, mirror is exactly the same but i have 2 rerolls instead of 4
https://imgur.com/a/CsZhXls
https://imgur.com/CnVUV1g

[shy plinth]

OK yeah this can be made easier. Mirror's pretty good, pact is quite tough with a decent number of compromises

[forest blaze]

second run was one of these two
https://imgur.com/a/XOU1kig

[shy plinth]

Those both look much better

[forest blaze]

but the 100% on hp was too tough

[shy plinth]

At this point it is probably just practice

[forest blaze]

yea these two were from the pinned guide, the first one was from Haelian youtube video

i started playing 2 weeks ago so im still learning lol

[shy plinth]

One of those two pacts will get you there, you either have to get used to forced overtime or hard labor

Jeez

Going quite fast, impressive

[forest blaze]

85 hours

[shy plinth]

Are you using stubborn defiance with those two pacts

[south violet]

I suspect he wanted to make the video interesting, EM4 is NOT part of any of the standard 32 pacts

[forest blaze]

sorry im bad with names, what is that?

[shy plinth]

The death defiance that's once per room

The 100% lasting consequences pacts are meant to be used with SD, not DDs

You effectively "heal" in regular rooms

It's an adjustment, but it works well

[forest blaze]

i was taking zues until last boss, i switched to one extra life, i think its the tooth for skelly

[shy plinth]

What do you mean Zeus until the last boss?

[forest blaze]

keepsakes

[shy plinth]

The god keepsakes expire after one biome

Were you keeping it equipped for multiple

[forest blaze]

literally from as soon as i enter till i killed the 3rd boss

[shy plinth]

You effectively had no keepsake for asphodel and elysium

The god keepsakes only work for one level

Generally you want to shape your build by taking a god keepsake for tartarus, a different one for asphodel, and then defensive for elysium and styx. I personally use acorn for both - 5 free hits is a lot (usually more health saved than tooth)

You should never leave the same god keepsake on two biomes in a row. It's a wasted spot

[forest blaze]

this was the 2nd boss run
https://imgur.com/a/ZNpIwZr
https://imgur.com/IFqoEmD
https://imgur.com/M5sN4aB

[hoary pasture]

it looks like youre using death defiances

you should max that point of lasting consequences and switch to stubborn defiance

[shy plinth]

Did you say you're using Rama?

Because it looks like that's at level 1

[forest blaze]

it is level 1 correct but im using special build only

so there is no need to upgrade it right?

[shy plinth]

I... would not recommend doing special only or trying to push for 32 with a level 1 aspect

Rama is strong but the big damage is part of it

If you really want to do it you can, but I would not recommend this approach

[forest blaze]

no no im here for tips and advices

and like i said im very new to the game so trying to learn

its just im so addicted lol

[shy plinth]

You're doing very well for getting this far this quickly

Oh yes, welcome to hades

Generally speaking we'll lean towards more conventional advice for builds and picks just because the same guidance has proven consistent and successful over the years

32 is actually quite flexible once you've built the skill and experience, but for first time 32, some pacts/mirrors/builds are tried and true

Instead of Zeus special only Rama, would recommend just doing Zeus Eris

[hoary pasture]

You can stick with it for the memes

[shy plinth]

Yeah I mean it's a solid meme and it will get there eventually

Just more work than other options, it's up to you

[forest token]

At that point just use rail lol

[forest blaze]

im trying to figure out the names 😭

when he said Eris i had to go in and check which one is Eris

[forest token]

That's fine lmao

We all start somewhere

[shy plinth]

Oh ya it's the rail where if you stand in the special you get a huge damage boost

[forest blaze]

still trying to figure out what stubborn defiance is

i have read the name a lot but i dont remember

[hoary pasture]

It's the mirror option for the revive

[shy plinth]

The green row on the mirror

The red one has 3 stock

The green one has 1 stock per room

[forest blaze]

that one is better?

[hoary pasture]

You want to be able to revive every room when you have no healing. The normal dds last the entire run and its pretty common to die when you have hard labor or forced overtime, will be difficult to replenish them back

When youre running high heat and have no healing yea

[forest blaze]

ohhhh now i get it

worth a try since i have no healing

[hoary pasture]

It'll be a smaller health pool so takes some getting used to

Might feel a bit worse at first

[shy plinth]

It's a big adjustment on bosses specifically

[south violet]

heat abbreviations https://i.imgur.com/7IxomSEh.jpg

[shy plinth]

You'll have to tighten up your boss fights and focus on not getting hit

[forest blaze]

https://imgur.com/34jCqR9

[shy plinth]

Ya, dunno how many keys you have but you can probs pop one to get higher on persuasion (unless you have already)

[forest blaze]

i do have a lot of keys but 3k is quite a lot

[shy plinth]

Just a question of how much you have tied up in other mirror options

If this is your config, maximizing it will be the best move - and you can always put the darkness back later

Only cost here is one key

[forest blaze]

literally 0 there

[shy plinth]

Not even in deaths defiance?

[forest blaze]

well yea that one is max because i just switched

lemme reset and see how much i have

[shy plinth]

Don't remember how much that gives you back, maybe not 3k

[forest blaze]

10617

[shy plinth]

But the cost is low to check

[forest blaze]

so 3k is literally 3rd of what i have gained in total

in my 65 attempts

[shy plinth]

You'll get there, don't worry

[forest blaze]

out of these two which one i should go for? also what about weapon option and boons

[shy plinth]

Either one will work with practice and both will take time to adjust to

Forced overtime is better to learn if you plan on going beyond 32 heat

Will take a bit longer to adjust to

[forest blaze]

i think im stopping at 32, i just wanted the 3rd statue from skelly

[shy plinth]

Eris rail+Zeus in tartarus is pretty tried and true, but for more detail, the pinned guide will be a good thing to lean on

And really the best weapon is the one you know

[forest blaze]

aight will dig deeper into the guide tomorrow

thank you for the help! appreciate it when the community is actually helpful ❤️

[split hollow]

This community is wholesome and always helpful

[surreal bridge]

hello, can anyone help me to get through heat 5 in satyr maze?
idk if heat 5 high but i really need help in builds or strategies, i keep dying like 5 times there even tho i had 3 death defiances with me

[shy plinth]

Heat 5? Best thing there is just practice

There's a pinned guide with good mirror and pact choices along with a pinned chart that will help you scale up heat

Generally this channel is for 32+ but we're happy to help

[surreal bridge]

okayy thank you

[shy plinth]

If you have any questions feel free to ask

[feral crescent]

Im currently trying to make a run with 32 heat ts is so hard

What weapon do yall use

I have malphon fists

[hoary pasture]

Fists can be a bit harder than others mostly due to the range and safety issue. But you can get good builds at this point so with a strong Merciful End build it'll be pretty straightforward. When it comes to high heat you'll wanna look at build and more importantly your pact. Some pacts can make this unnecessarily difficult. If you want easier weps than fists you can try Eris but it's just preference at this point.

There is a nice guide pinned here for 32h. It's quite detailed so you'll find lots of useful info

[feral crescent]

https://imgur.com/3UeDq4d

what's your opinion on this pact??

[feral crescent]

yes thank you, i've read it

[hoary pasture]

Well

No wonder you cant beat it

Theres a lot of pacts you should avoid. This is a very difficult pact. You want to drop Approval Process, Routine Inspection and never look back

I would also suggest you try Tight deadline 3. It’s easy but takes some getting used to. The guide should show you the rest of the fillers to get to 32. It’s usually gonna be Hard Labor or Forced Overtime; generally not both

Dropping RI and AP will help you get a good build which will make this infinitely easier

[south violet]

Lasting Consequences 4 with stubborn defiance

[feral crescent]

i've tried tight deadline but i always run out of time and perish eventually
ig i need to practise more

[south violet]

if you've been running AP2 then that's no wonder

you need to understand: your clear speed is closely related to how good of a build you have

[feral crescent]

will follow your advice and let y'all know ty!

[feral crescent]

yeah..

[south violet]

and by taking the two conditions that reduce your build-options and strength you are slowing yourself down a bunch

by turning those off you'd have enough of a build to consistently TD3

[feral crescent]

i've tried this one b4 and it was ltrl impossible for me i always die on tisiphone

[feral crescent]

[south violet]

did you have routine inspection 2 on at the time?

if so, that's why.

[feral crescent]

most likely yeah , this

[south violet]

50 max hp start makes furies that much harder, as you've effectively halved your starting health. even on hard labor 0 that means you get 2shot by most attacks.

[south violet]

to be clear, routine inspection 2 isn't the worst idea later on, especially at or past 40 heat it can become a consideration. however 32 is far too early for that. people familiar with how pacts and build work call 32 heat "spicy anyheat" due to how similarly 32 can be played to a low heat, given a good pact, good aspect and good build.

[feral crescent]

oh i use cerberus keepsake, that gives you +50hp

[south violet]

even so, by using collar you are locking yourself out of build reliability

[feral crescent]

[south violet]

which causes the same type of issue you were having with AP2 RI1+ (less strong build = enemies die slower = you need to focus for longer for every enemy = run takes longer = you cannot as easily take tight deadline 3 = harder run)

[feral crescent]

i will try these tips later and let y'all know

[south violet]

feel free to VoiceCall me at any time (since this server has no VCs) and I will gladly join if I am available and explain the thought process behind stuff in or outside the run; understanding how the game works and is balanced can help you achieve so much more than you think yourself capable of right now. you're in a rough situation where during your whole playthrough of hades, you've been taking the seemingly "low-skill-requirement & low-knowledge-requirement" pact settings (Approval Process, Routine Inspection), without realizing how much the indirect (and thus mostly invisible) consequences of them (having less stong builds) hampers your ability to win. using AP2 on every run also meant you never built up a proper understanding of how to get one of the stronger builds together to destroy every enemy in the game.

[ashen garnet]

Not my cleanest chopp/world splitter monodash run, but I remembered I had to share it here for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgIrKQgs_G0

[sly cove]

ewww ri2

[chilly furnace]

has anyone beat the highest heat?

[south violet]

3 people

2 on zeus shield, 1 on rama bow

Unless you allow clears with quality-of-flife mods too, in which case 4 aspects have done it (zeus, rama, eris, guan yu)

[strong halo]

I've seen the runs, so yeah

people who do that are way too skilled at this game

[chilly furnace]

wow

im struggling with 10 heat lol

[soft basin]

Maybe your pact is funny, there there are many options that give a good amount of heat for pretty low difficulty increase

[upper juniper]

I mean they likely have 80-90* your time in game

at a minimum

[strong halo]

do you want advice?

[chilly furnace]

nah im still learning

im not attempting these crazy heat runs

[shy plinth]

Learning is great! If you get stuck or you have any questions, feel free to ask here and/or check out bananas' pinned guide and my pinned heat progression sheet

The progression sheet in particular might be more helpful at lower heats since it walks you through how to ramp up

[chilly furnace]

thanks

[soft basin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1329437187091075162/1449551296859475978/image.png?ex=693f4f58&is=693dfdd8&hm=a204028a51a2a891a734b340544a2cd165aa69f804061226cbd4459712055723&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1104&height=659

how is pact?

maybe i take off 2 jury for one approval process

[left prism]

I'd take off RI first

either do em4 or ri/ap stuff, avoid combining them

(the em4 idea is basically to keep yourself as strong as possible to bulldoze through him)

[soft basin]

what is RI

on inspection

[left prism]

-mirror

[soft basin]

i figure i didnt have that many levels of that last mirror anyway i could take it

[left prism]

remember it disables dark foresight

[soft basin]

yea i did concider that

but what do i put the 3 heat on

2 heat

[left prism]

I'd just bite the bullet and do cf2

[soft basin]

and one convinience fee ig?

[left prism]

+prices

cf2 is +80% cost

[soft basin]

i figured i would do one more calistenics and one fee

[left prism]

avoid +30% hp if you are doing em4

[soft basin]

hm ok

+80% prices is kinda spooky to me lol

[left prism]

I hate it myself but is not thaaat bad

[left prism]

it gives 6.6k extra hp per health bar (and 5.2k on 3rd phase)

do not give him an extra 18k basically

[soft basin]

i didnt have a goal nessisiairly for high heat untill i found out there was flavor text for 47 heat lmao

thats so fun

[left prism]

Might as well do a clean 50

[soft basin]

idk where im getting 3 more heat bruh

ig approval process and one damage control

approval progress seems so ass though

[left prism]

Yeah at 50 you gotta start taking stinky stuff

[soft basin]

yippie more rng

[left prism]

Ap1 is, okay

At this high you can swap to aphro cast + snow burst tho

So you aren't gambling for mirage

[soft basin]

o

yea makes sense

[left prism]

With priv status it has solid dmg all the way through

[soft basin]

bruh but then i have to play good instead of being carried by beo

[left prism]

Beo is still stupid strong lol

[upper juniper]

Just hit styx and I realised I only have zeus pos artemis

[left prism]

Also if you do em4 I'd say step away from Cshot

Sudden rush feels comfier at high heat

[soft basin]

ok

[left prism]

(mostly cuz bullrush is just get out of jail free lol)

[soft basin]

i also finally maxed my beo lol

[left prism]

For 50 heat without hell mode I'd do either of these
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1230649734008672347/1449555402588033135/Screenshot_20251213-211449.Firefox.png?ex=693f532b&is=693e01ab&hm=a06a6aedcf22b90ba67d6fcb1b9a50faa2ec551a1efc21a4b3be86756853aab6&
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1230649734008672347/1449555403200266321/Screenshot_20251213-211519.Firefox.png?ex=693f532b&is=693e01ab&hm=34c5aae04304543974396172abfac3a4d3c04a58d853e98ce6bdfb2ad69fcd02&

Super dad or rng^2 basically

Hell mode would let you go back to cp1

[soft basin]

that one hellmode heat is actually kinda convinient here lol

[left prism]

Is why Speedrun modpack let's you switch to it lol

[soft basin]

lol yarn costs 126

porlly not worth buying

do i take chaos + 79% cast dmg or do i roll for another stone

i think i just take this and hope for more chaos later lol

[left prism]

Late but yeah absolutely take lol

I'd take stone if it was like 30-40% cast dmg

[soft basin]

im running dio so another stone would be way good

[left prism]

But I wouldn't roll for it either unless curses suck

[soft basin]

but i think this is good enough

[left prism]

Oh

Ngl if it is dio I def would have rolled lmfao

Worst case scenario is just tartarus and you reset

[soft basin]

lol

teehee

extra stone in asph, cant earn gold for 3 chambers

also i was offered hyper sprint or 3 extra dashes from hermes, i took the dashes cuz shiny purple but i think hypersprint would have been the correct choise lol

[left prism]

Dashes are dashes at least

[soft basin]

i ended up getting hypersprint in like the next chamber lol

but porlly not gonna get rushed delivery

[left prism]

Purple rd in Styx Hermes incoming trust

[soft basin]

i dont think im gonna get possidon in asph

do i take possidon keepsake into ely lol

i dont think that is too worth

[left prism]

I wouldn't

Prob hourglass and pray for more braids/stones

[soft basin]

also as a side note that sheild rush visual thingy i mentioned before seems to be caused by artemis attack?

idk

lol i ended up dying in asph

[left prism]

Rip

[soft basin]

max hard labor is kinda hard

lol im gonna take charge shot

man frick

i have dio arti zeus and i just gor forced ares

i think i take possidon into asph anyway since its not like i rly care about any secondaries

man this is actually kinda hard

[upper juniper]

This sounds like my eris run rn

wait you’re play beo and not pos starting

[sly cove]

wtf is 47 heat

[sly cove]

trippy beo sounds cooked ngl

just run passion/snurst bro

without extra casts u have trash uptime and u cant force extra casts with ap2

[soft basin]

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-bro-waffling-about-rango-blud-waffling-discord-gif-10831194605784478734

[soft basin]

bruh lsott o hades 2.2 lol

bruh took 110 dmg from the idiot dog

lmao

wow so glad i did this instead of studying

so worth

time do study lipid metabolism or whatever

[sly cove]

em4 moment

[soft basin]

bruh i had another good run but died to a pot

thats so dumb

[forest token]

hs moment

is this 50 heat

[soft basin]

47

[sly cove]

em4 at 47?

whats even the point

[verbal atlas]

cool fight

[wheat dune]

how the hell are you supposed to fight tweedle dee and tweedle bull with 40% forced overtime

like he charges me and its like, boom there goes my health

also chiron bow in the megagorgon chamber is giving me an exceptionally hard time

[forest token]

chiron moment

not exactly a fast aspect so it struggles a good bit, esp in those fights specifically lmao

ngl if you dont use chiron you'll probably have a better time, even on fo2

it's also a steep learning curve

arthur would prob have a better time lmao

rama has a rough time with power couple, but it's not too bad

and it's fine on heroes

[shy plinth]

It is also worth checking to see what your heat and mirror settings are

[wheat dune]

mirror is all red except for fiery presence, dark foresight, and fated persuasion. im doing the 32 heat recommended by haelian, so fo4, benefits package x2, damage control 1, tight deadline at 7 minutes etc. I'm playing on hell mode as well which yeah i know its a v dumb idea, but its the one where I had all my weapon upgrades at and i really dont want to try farming for titan blood again

[sly cove]

i hate power couple in general ngl that fight is my kryptonite

[sly cove]

by fo4 do u mean em4?

or lc4

[split musk]

Forced overtime most likely

[sly cove]

fo doesnt go to 4

[split musk]

Oh

Umm

Cya

[sly cove]

idk hell mode is fine the problem with hell mode is that it comes with cp1

tbh

like hl1 lc1 are pretty free and js1 is bad but not that bad

i would tell u to go to td3 but td3 is ass with js3 cp1 so i assume its not that much nicer with js1 cp1

[split musk]

Also wait em does go to four, it’s like after first credits then u can buy it or smthn, I don’t have it but I do know about it, at least I don’t think I have it

||It makes hades have a third phase and he summons Cerberus||

Oh wait we were talking about fo

I need to sleep

I’m so sleep deprived

Even though it’s already 1 pm

[strong halo]

So, I'm getting up to 32 heat slowly, and my current Strat looks something like this:
-Start with blood vial(Ares) with Zagreus' fists and get doom on attack;
-Try and get Athena's special + dash + ME, if not gotten in tartarus, put on owl pendant(Athena) and try to get ME at least in asphodel, at the latest Elysium;
-Equip pom blossom in Elysium and keep it on until hades to get as many level ups as possible.

Optional:
-Get boons from Hermes like +dash, +dodge, recovery from dash after getting hit;
-Get Athena's call to make EM4 Hades easier

Thing's I haven't unlocked yet:
-Any companions
-Any fourth aspect of any weapons(btw, anyone can tell me how to unlock this?)

anything I could try and improve in my current setup outside of just getting better at the game(I'm working on it)? Because whilst I'm winning most of my rounds, they are definitely not flawless victories(EM4 Hades still takes me between 1-3 deaths defiance to kill)

Thanks for any help on this

[upper juniper]

Hidden aspect unlocks are like the 3rd pin in #h1-story-discussion

[strong halo]

ah, didn't know you NEEDED to start with the spear

well, that explains a lot

[upper juniper]

Greatest reflex is great from Hermes, Hyper Sprint -> Rush Delivery is phenomenal damage reduction from hyper sprint and then a massive massive dps boost

I’d pretty much always take athena keepsake into asphodel regardless of whether or not I already have her, just to guarantee another boon from her earlier

then grab 2 other gods that aren’t going to interfere with your duo odds to maximise your ares and athena boons

[strong halo]

I try and get rush delivery when I can, but in all my runs, I only got it once

but yeah, these are good options

[upper juniper]

Aside from that are you making sure to pick up the hammers that are super impactful for demeter like breaching cross / long knuckle / explosive upper

[strong halo]

I almost always get breaching cross, that 900% armored damaged is pretty much necessary for EM4 Hades for me, but I only pick up the other 2 if there's an oportunity for it

[split musk]

Sounds like you’ve got it all planned out, me personally I just go with the flow

[strong halo]

I'm trying, since I have a terminal case of skill issue I don't really have a choice

especially at higher heat levels

[split musk]

Yeah well at least you aren’t diagnosed with antiluck at the maximum level, it’s a very rare and dangerous disease, as well as contagious inversely, meaning everyone around me has [phone] luck

[strong halo]

strangely enough, I have that on a lot of games I play, except this one

[split musk]

For me it’s only this game, and Fortnite occasionally

I have it in rocket league too but guess what, I overcame it by becoming a ssl, I believe that with enough trials, I can achieve overcoming my disease in hades too

https://tenor.com/view/iron-man-tony-stark-probably-not-gif-24786485

[upper juniper]

You’re doing em4 for 32 heat?

that’s a lot of overkill there

[strong halo]

I mean... come on, I'm not going to beat heat 32 without a cinematic final boss now will I?

Also I defeated heat 16 with EM4, I'm not going back

[upper juniper]

Yes

😁

[strong halo]

heresy

[soft basin]

some aspects have an easy time with bosses (imo mainly zeus and beo) so em4 is a good option for easier rooms

but im bad with fists so i woudlnt be chosing em 4

[strong halo]

My only current issue is that tight deadline 3 is not consistent at all with EM4, Hades just takes me too long

so I'm going to need a cursed pact to get 32 heat

[soft basin]

you could prolly put on deadline 2

__

[strong halo]

Already doing it

[soft basin]

since you have em 4

[strong halo]

I can easily do this under 25 min, so deadline 2 is easy

[soft basin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1329437187091075162/1450812230156161055/image.png?ex=6943e5ae&is=6942942e&hm=0af150cc9b2aa36f76bfb5727836f4b09e2ef7e65ce8a7cdf31dacf4766a14cd&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=692&height=711

just do this but swap deadline 3 for em4

[strong halo]

bruh, I'm not doing lasting consequence 5

[soft basin]

well this is assumign you can get through the hades fight iwth stubborn lmao

[strong halo]

I cannot beat hades with stubborn

[soft basin]

toobad

eh with two levels of damage controll and more hard labor you could use less lc

but rooms would be harder

[strong halo]

I mean, you basically tear through damage control with ME fists

so that's basically free heat

[soft basin]

its 2 heat sure

lasting consiquenses is like 4 total i think

[strong halo]

less lasting consequences is good for me dawg

[soft basin]

so you would put on 2 more levels of hard labor

actually deadline 3 mgith be 3 heat

em4 is 4 so if you put em4 and turn off deadline 3 you get one extra

[strong halo]

I guess if I can get better, I could slap on tight deadline 3 and still win with a good run, but that's a huge maybe

[soft basin]

tbh you coudl also concider doing this but with 4 heat in em4 instead of lasting consiquenses

[strong halo]

that could work

[soft basin]

deadline 3 though

[strong halo]

also wait a second, why isn't heightened security activated in that pact?

[soft basin]

• if you dont have like jury and calistenics its really not that hard to get sub 20

[strong halo]

that's another free heat point

[soft basin]

its one heat and kinda annoying in asph

so you just dont need it

i just died today becuase of that one lol

in ely though

[strong halo]

I just remembered Lernie's boss room and oof

that's going to be rough

[soft basin]

eh

you just have to be more attentive

[strong halo]

also, wouldn't the jars in the hades boss fight do like 100+ damage?

maybe I don't actually want HS lmao

[soft basin]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-toby-the-cat-nod-yes-yes-yes-hooman-gif-17105827

well they do base 40? or 30 i think

500%

[strong halo]

150 base damage

[upper juniper]

Em4 is unironically just overkill for 32 heat

[strong halo]

GODDAMN BOY

[soft basin]

coward

[strong halo]

I am stubborn, also, I will absolutely not win a run with LC5

so em4 it is

[soft basin]

• its 4 free heat if you just have a build that can bulldose hades

[upper juniper]

bro has negative healing

Takes damage from hp sources

[soft basin]

its easier to beat base hades with stubborn compared to em4 with dds me thinks

[strong halo]

I mean, most of my time lost is trying to get ME up and running, so if I get a good run where both ares and athena are in my god pool in tartarus, I can probably do this

[upper juniper]

I would rather play softcapped at 30% max hp for the entire run than deal with em4 😁

really 15% if you factor in hl5

[soft basin]

wdym bruh

you get boons as you clear rooms

so how do you lose time by building lol

[upper juniper]

ME is inconsistent as hell

and it’s not fast until you have all the components together

[soft basin]

^i would just run zeus fists because of this

[upper juniper]

I run everything

[soft basin]

i think base ares attack is alright

[upper juniper]

Base ares strike is miles slower than ME

[soft basin]

you can spread doom around and its good enough for like asph

but you want to get ME alteast in ely

[strong halo]

doing forced labour 2 + em3 asterius + theseus without athena's dash is a pain in the ass

[soft basin]

you jsut take owl into asph

skull

• how does athena dash help against bull

i dont even think he has projectiles with em3

[strong halo]

uhhh, to make doom trigger instantly?

oh, I'm running an ME build

[soft basin]

skull i thought you just ment the dash lol

if you hit heros without ME youre pretty skrewed sure

its more just running out of time i think

[strong halo]

that's why I said I'm going to need luck if I want to do this

[soft basin]

its not that rare to get duos before then

[south violet]

Who up playing with a level... 3?... 4?... Guan yu

[soft basin]

if you pick up both youre cores by asph, and visit mid shops, its not that bad

[strong halo]

or I could do zeus' fists, but I haven't killes EM4 Hades with this yet

[upper juniper]

You can still deflect melee attacks

[south violet]

(Except spin)

[strong halo]

yup, I can confirm, this has saved me multiple times

[strong halo]

except spin

[soft basin]

how is it differnt from just iframing

[upper juniper]

plus the deflective nature of it is what’s important for your dps

the deflect still happens if you dash-strike

The specifics of it are a little weird

[soft basin]

999358269422321774 does athena dash make you not get hit during dash attacks

[strong halo]

it basically gives you the iframes you would have had if you hadn't attacked from what I can tell

but I'm not experienced enough to tell for sure

[south violet]

If the attack is deflectable, yep. Otherwise, enjoy taking that damage

[soft basin]

that makes no sense

[south violet]

It's a system separate from iframes

[soft basin]

i figured

what "significant" melee attacks are there that are deflectable

[south violet]

Like. Basically anything

Better question is "what attacks aren't"

[strong halo]

basically everything Elysium can throw at you

[soft basin]

ig the point of athena dash is more safety during dash attacks

i can buy that

[strong halo]

yep, which is why it's so good with ME, you're basically invincible

as long as hermes gave you a bit more dashes

[soft basin]

the real invincibility build is getting +3 dashes (epic hermes) with gilga

[strong halo]

I don't have it yet, I'm working on it

[upper juniper]

The real “I’m lying to you about my effectiveness” build

gilga try not to coax ppl into it having literally every dash stat nerfed

[south violet]

The long version:
Deflection is actually a hitbox. It's not some abstract concept, it's literally just a hitbox that turns enemy attacks against their original source.

if zag and the enemy attack collide, check whether the attack is deflectable. If so, if the attack collides with a deflect hitbox. If so, change the source of the attack to zag and apply any applicable damage-bonuses. If any of the above fail, check for zag iframes. If this fails, inflict damage to zagreus. Otherwise do nothing.

Oh yeah also every hitbox in hades gets deactivated if it has dealt damage before. So add that check before dealing damage ig

I think that's right

[soft basin]

hater

[upper juniper]

I’m being so fr Gilga advertises it having extra dashes but doesn’t tell you about dash range down, slower dash-strikes, extended dash cooldown

[soft basin]

this is also what i thought, ig i just dont notice when random enemy melee attacks are deflected

but its very obvious when you eat a spin lol

[upper juniper]

Also crazy sidenote but gilga having 60 base damage standing strikes and 20 base damage dstrikes will never not be absurd to me because the only person I’ve ever seen properly use a gilga standing strike is Cherry

[soft basin]

__

gilga is my highest heat fist clear lol

but only because of the dash gimmick

[upper juniper]

I think most of mine are tied at 32 aside from gilga being 20

[ashen garnet]

Iirc gilga does not have longer dash clip refresh

[upper juniper]

Scratch is here

[upper juniper]

Does it not?

I could’ve sworn

hrm

[soft basin]

my gilga is 32, zag fists at liek 1 heat i think and ive not cleared with the rest teehee

[ashen garnet]

Might be dash-chaining delay instead but it's been a while since I looked at the numbers

[upper juniper]

I’ve done 32 heat with every fist I just checked my notes app

I did 32 heat with gilga before I did 32 heat with Hestia lmao

wait I’ve done every rail but hestia for 32 heat

💀

[upper juniper]

Yeah maybe it just feels like it or smthing

[soft basin]

i would have to rebind to play with hestia lol

aint noway im pressing r after every shot

[upper juniper]

I play on controller as God intended so I have it on like

right stick or something

[strong halo]

I have it like that too

[upper juniper]

That’s the default setting so I wouldn’t be surprised

I don’t really change around my settings unless it’s a loading castpect

[soft basin]

ive never rly playd games on controllers

i dont have a controller and i would have to learn how to use it

• having a dedicated video game item feels like even more unproductive

[upper juniper]

It’s a thing where I play some games on controller and some on kbm and like

I know which sort of games need what

when I get a feel for them

[strong halo]

I just use my ps4 controller to play on my pc

[soft basin]

to me the only advantage of controller compared to keyboard is being able to use both thumbs and all angles on both hands

[upper juniper]

exactly

[soft basin]

999358269422321774

[upper juniper]

full 360 movement

[soft basin]

eh i mean if youv seen those fancy fighting game controllers

that are kinda keyboard like

[upper juniper]

those are built for fighting games

[soft basin]

they dont have sticks but you adjust angles by holding down buttons

like you would have a button to rotate a stick clockwise 5% or whatever

that woudlnt rly work that well for hades though

[upper juniper]

yeah not exactly

I just like it being really free form and snappy with controller for Hades

[soft basin]

well actually if you had one button each for adding 45/2 deg clockwise / anti

you would have doubled your angles on pc

[wheat dune]

Forced overtime 40%

Sorry for not being clear

I’m doing em3

[sly cove]

way easier esp if u get patty

[sly cove]

ah ok yea i think u probably need just better build/aspect

do u have lc4 on

if ur not adjusted to fo2 then lc4/hl4 might be easier

also probably drop dc1

[wheat dune]

No I specifically avoided that one bc no healing is scary :((

[sly cove]

but thats also aspect dependent

[sly cove]

its really not that bad

because u have a free heal every room

u can take aspho tooth and rng into pat for a lot more healing too

the only really hard part of lc4 was dad without extra dds/pat imo

[wheat dune]

Does the well of Charon item still work on lc4?

[sly cove]

the one that increased sd healing does

the others dont

idk fo2 isnt that bad either i did 32 with hl5 fo2

just its pretty hard if ur not used to it

[wheat dune]

I was avoiding hard labor bc of the forced point into JS but I could def give it a try

Should I maybe try out Zeus shield?

[sly cove]

maybe? personally i feel like its pretty awkward to play esp with td on

high skill floor aspect

id recommend beo/eris/hesty/rama personally

eris and hesty are level dependent tho eris probably less so because 15% or 30% global damage is still hella good but like

[wheat dune]

I’ll give Chiron another day and maybe lower forced overtime and if I don’t get past the heroes I’ll switch

[upper juniper]

I’m pretty sure for my chiron 32 heat run I just played it like discount zag bow

just to avoid the lengthy special

[wheat dune]

How’d you deal with the heroes/megagorgon?

[upper juniper]

same as I would on any of the more standard bows, just a ton of dash-strikes

chiron still has access to all the good strike hammers

You could easily build a regular hangover chiron and just take strike hammers to really supplement your damage when you need it since strikes will be quicker

you could use the special to inflict hangover and otherwise just dstrike in the mean time since aphro strike is really nice +%

[wheat dune]

I mean I will say I do like a good aphro bow w twin strike

[upper juniper]

bow has a lot of really synergistic hammers for striking and literally like 2 that help chiron function

I’d probably look at your first hammer and go
Concentrated Volley > Twin/Triple/Flurry > Relentless Volley > Perfect and Pointblank shot

[upper juniper]

Btw this is like kind of unknown chiron tech but if you have concentrated volley and a swift flourish of epic or better, you can special fast enough for the next volley to keep the chain going across multiple volleys

it’s kind of rare for the stars to align like that but

[wheat dune]

but you kinda have to hope and believe it when your doing harder heat levels

[shy plinth]

At 32 you should still be able to be p flexible with practice as long as you're not taking cursed pacts

Is your pact listed out anywhere? I know you listed your mirror

Oh you said you're doing haelian's pact right

I do not really love this one but it should be manageable, it doesn't have anything truly cursed

If you're on hell mode you get a couple other points to play around with

Can cut a point of hard labor and a point of convenience fee to make up for the extra points from calisthenics program and personal liability

[wheat dune]

If I'm doing the aphro-dio build, should I risk privileged status? like it might make tartarus harder but itd probably make the later boss fights easier right?

[shy plinth]

If you think you can consistently apply it, PS is nice

And you have DC on anyway so it's not like those first couple hits matter

It will make tart rougher tho

Still, if there's any build to go for PS, it's probs that one

[soft basin]

i retract my pravious thanatos hate

when deadline is actually kinda tight its pretty nice to get that free room lol

lol that moment when meg misses

[wheat dune]

i did it

thx yall i am genuinely amazed lol

[left prism]

gg

[shy plinth]

Good work

[strong halo]

tell me guys, how cursed of a pact of punishment is this
https://imgur.com/a/b7FFYhf

[left prism]

em4 is the big stinker here

if you are doing it cuz you want the challenge then go ahead, otherwise do the lasting consequences 4 + stubborn defiance strat

you could also do hl5/fo0 em4

he'll hit harder but way less often

[ashen garnet]

Not enough RI/AP (just kidding)

[strong halo]

I am doing it for the challenge

[soft basin]

__

i threw a run to meg after getting mirrage in tart lmao

where is my worst hades player reward

in my defence i didnt have a cast boon

• it was cuz of deadline

[soft basin]

the heat gague crying flavor text is pretty strange

so before i saw it on 47 heat

after i beat it it started appearing for 48 and higher

now that i beat 50 its appearing for 49 and higher

with this very small sample size it would seem the ammount needed for the flavor text increases by 1 every time you beat a heat that has it

[sly cove]

i thought it was just 30+your max bounty needed

or something

[strong halo]

I give up on EM4 32 heat, I just had the luckiest run I've ever had, got Hades down to 1 more round of attacks until death and got killed by a freaking poison vase that broke due to Hades' fire beam attack where I couldn't dodge it due to lack of space, I'm switching over to the guide's strat

[soft basin]

Maybe

[soft basin]

Coward

[left prism]

Rude

[soft basin]

no

[honest crypt]

not true 32 heat if it's not em4 ri4 ap2

[carmine marlin]

let people game how they want to game lol

em4 is hard af

[strong halo]

are you insane? that's just torture at that point

[upper juniper]

“It’s not true 32 heat if you don’t start with a 64 heat pact and then just take off the easiest options one by one”

[outer grail]

Why are we gatekeeping 32 heat T-T

[upper juniper]

idk. a lot of the main focus of this channel is helping people refine down their pacts into the easiest possible for their goal heat

[outer grail]

I'd understand if we were against modded players heat but this is bare bones vanilla players getting flamed

[wintry crystal]

I mean I'm like 98% sure they're joking

[carmine marlin]

probably are but still

[left prism]

?

Oh well tbf ig you mean more varied mods lol

Not the speedrun modpack

But even then why would we be against it (assuming they aren't trying to hide it)

[outer grail]

yeah i mean like proper mods the the speed pack

some people have a bias against modders

[ashen garnet]

Understandable but 5sack excruciatingly bad for heat, resets and grinding sanity

[soft basin]

Bruh guys, I obviously said that as a joke

[sly cove]

modded is the only way to play

id sooner kms than get 5sacked on the 1% ap2 run

[left prism]

Wild but true

[carmine marlin]

i think my luck is amazing bc i have yet to get 5 sack. i hope im not jinxing it by saying this

3 sack at max and its usually 2

but yeah, the idea of 5 sack makes me cringe

[upper juniper]

3.5% chance is only like one in 28 runs

[strong halo]

I got 5 sacked once, luckily, I wasn't running the timed PoP so I still killed Hades, but yeah

[carmine marlin]

i see

[carmine marlin]

im so bad at the game, ive turned off timer mostly

recently cleared 16 heat

i'll turn it back on next time around

9 min one im good with since i clear in like 30 mins on average

its the 7 min one that gets me

[upper juniper]

It shouldn’t be that hard to really bring your times down unless your pact is abysmal

[carmine marlin]

im just bad at the game lol. but i am currently max on jury summons

[upper juniper]

that certainly isn’t helping

[carmine marlin]

i actually don't mind max jury summons

its not too bad once u get the hang of it

[upper juniper]

It’s more about the opportunity cost especially at this stage

[carmine marlin]

i also maxxed benefits program

[upper juniper]

I’d have bp maxed it isn’t really a time extender that much

not nearly to the extent of jury summons

[carmine marlin]

i have em at 2 bc i hate the em3 fight and ik em4 is even worse

[upper juniper]

It’s one that compounds really badly with other pacts

so if you have it on early it makes a lot of other pact options that much worse

[carmine marlin]

it is really fun tho

[upper juniper]

[carmine marlin]

bc i take out like a whole bunch of em at once

but yeah ig i should take it down if i want higher heat lol

my friend who got me into the game told me the same thing, that jury summons was ill and i shouldn't maxx it

max jury summons and timer are awful

[upper juniper]

timer isn’t awful

but jury summons gets in the way of timer a lot and timer gives a ton more heat

[carmine marlin]

no i mean the combo is awful

individually they are okay

[south violet]

on its own JS is terrible too, I have the utmost respect for people who make the mistake of using JS3 for their first 32 heat clear because there is no good reason to ever do that

[carmine marlin]

lmao

it is a little annoying but u get used to it fast

especially if u use smth like beo on shield

it is SO satisfying

bc all the mobs will cluster in front of you and you can just bull rush them

i do want to at least hit 32 heat tho so ig i'll tone it down

sadge, i really wish js gave more heat but oh well

[south violet]

to be clear, any 32 pact can work, some settings and combinations are just significantly more unbearable than others

the earliest I, a 62 heat clearer, would consider enabling any jury summons (even level 1) would be at LEAST 40. even then, it'd probably be just 1 point.

Not sure what others think but I don't think I'm all that far off the truth here

[carmine marlin]

i legit crashed out last i tried using js rank 2 and timer rank 2 together

i could keep forcing myself to play with them till i get used to it tho

[carmine marlin]

62 heat is insane, i can't even comprehend it lol!

i turned on js as one of my first heat levels actually

probably bc i just starting clicking whatever i saw first

and since i main shield it wasn't too bad

[south violet]

JS causes multiple problems: it's not just slow to use, but it is one of those settings that have synergies with other enemy perks. in fact, it pairs to some extent with all of the enemy-related ones except extreme measures. 60% more enemies means 60% more stuff happening on the screen, which can be kinda bad when stuff is moving at you at mach 5 and hitting you for double what it usually would.

All in all, jury summons has the disadvantages of the settings that slow the player down or weaken the player, while adding measurably more difficulty too.

(this is not to say EM4 is any better, in fact that setting is considered to become one of the meta-options only somewhere between 45 or 50 depending on who you ask)

[carmine marlin]

that makes sense

what do you suggest i try rather than maxing js?

[south violet]

pinned should be a few guides with the usual options for 32 heat

if you were to want to learn to play that, those settings would probably be useful to get a feel for and start using.

[carmine marlin]

timer ofc tho i think i'll stick to 7 min one till i get better, my fastest time is still like 28 minutes i think?

oh wait nope i checked, its 23 lol

[carmine marlin]

awesome, i'll check em out :D

[south violet]

how much jury summons / calisthenics program / approval process / routine inspection did this have?

those are often called the "timewaster" heats.

[carmine marlin]

i'll have to check, one sec

dang i can't find the ss lol

okay

it was a 7 heat clear

timer set to 7, js rank 1, the one that makes everything expensive and the remaining was em

so yep, js was at min lol

[soft basin]

are you playing with forced overtime?

that one gives alot of heat and doesnt slow you down

same goes for hard labor, the anti healing one (forgot name)

[carmine marlin]

no i haven't used it much at all

[carmine marlin]

i'll keep it in mind for next time!

[soft basin]

it might be a bit intimidating, atleast it was for me, but its rly not too bad

but for 32 you could chose either forced overtime or hard labor, having both might be a bit hard

[verbal atlas]

lasting consequences

[carmine marlin]

it took me forever to get to 16 heat, i wonder how long it will take for 32 lol

[soft basin]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1394734947180482570/1452705900505596026/image.png?ex=694ac94c&is=694977cc&hm=17eee3edee517a0f59a8f4011d067d94f10ca402ba48f36c4ccde261c9c232fb&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=683&height=749

these, exept hightend security, are pretty free

they dont add much difficulty (exept forced overtime) and give a good ammount of heat

[carmine marlin]

hs sounds genuinely terrifiying

i HATE magma so much

it doing extra damage sounds ill

[soft basin]

eventually the 1 heat is worth lol

[carmine marlin]

i'll have to try it i suppose lol

[soft basin]

its not worth at 32

[left prism]

Oh there's a worse effect from HS

Dad's pots are counted as traps

[soft basin]

i do kinda like HS for being able to reset for stubborn quickly lol

[left prism]

Enjoy 150 dmg for 1 mistake

[carmine marlin]

sobs

[carmine marlin]

150?!?!

i usually try to get him to break them

with his laser beams

looks like i need to make sure he breaks them now

[soft basin]

its not worth doing that i dont think

especially with overtime 2 hades willl sneak up on you if you are trying to break pots lol

[carmine marlin]

no what i meant was

like i use shield to stand wherever and block

and hades fires the laser beams

and breaks his own pots

[ashen garnet]

Trap damage (including 150 urns) can be heavily mitigated with Athena's sure footing. Same thing with Hellmode's PL and Holy Shield

[sly cove]

sure footing 😭😭😭

and then u take a year to reset sd

[ashen garnet]

Might be because of the heats I am running with, but considering js2 is extremely rare for me: it tends to produce extended-waves as often as js3 while js2bp2 is already nightmarish with bad BP combos

[sly cove]

9 min and 7 min timer should both be free if youre playing around timer

(pausing for important decisions, etc)

i think js1 is chill

at least a lot more than cp1 is

[ashen garnet]

Foes resets instead of trap resets, given you are running SD and not DD

[sly cove]

ok but consider: not realizing theres another wave and then resetting your sd and then dying to the last wave

[ashen garnet]

Might need some time to get a hang of waves

[sly cove]

i think the funniest mistake i do is resetting my nonexistent sd

i did it after lernie once

[ashen garnet]

egg moment

[sly cove]

i jumped straight from 16-32-40

its really not that bad

its a knowledge issue rather than a skill issue usually

[soft basin]

samesies

[soft basin]

at the heats where you would concider taking HS i dont think sure footing would be something worth going out of your way to get

[soft basin]

ive not encountered any sinario where spesifically js and bp2 interact to make an encounter especially hard, can you give an example

[ashen garnet]

Depends if you already plan on getting Athena in your godpool or not that's why I was evoking it

[ashen garnet]

Mostly Speeders + something else (Speeder Shielder numbskulls on slow-attacking aspects), most Speeders Sluggers/Cloner/Shifters/Spitters

[strong halo]

do you need to do 40 heat for anything? I'm only doing 32 because of that damn skelly statue

[soft basin]

no its just for fun

i think around high 40s there isnt that much rng and you can pretty much do whatever

[carmine marlin]

i see

[sly cove]

for bragging rights

[upper juniper]

Challenge is fun/ accomplishment

also yeah bragging rights

[honest crypt]

you neeeeeeed it

https://tenor.com/view/i-need-it-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-gif-4883506

[rancid spade]

dont need anything over 32 to 100% the game

[forest token]

Don't need anything over 16 lmao

[rancid spade]

You need 32 for the statue

[forest token]

Oh for some reason I understood it as steam achievements

Yeah you're right

[rancid spade]

that said, what's a heat level that's doable with some practice consistently without rng?

or rather what to aim for after i did 32?

granted it's been like 2 years lol

[south violet]

32 should be consistently achievable for most active players even if they aren't that great (with basic game knowledge about builds and pacts), 40-ish is consistently achievable for a good player (knows some optimization, has an idea of how many risks can reasonably be taken, and doesn't mindlessly rush in at all times), and the best (like top 20 or so players, and can beat EM4 at those high settings without dying almost every time) can beat 50 heat consistently on a good aspect.

Generally, the progression pipeline is 32 -> 40 -> 45 -> 50 -> increment by 1 or 2 for heats higher than 50

[rancid spade]

thanks!

so then I can jump to 40 right after 32, and no need to do 34-36 etc

i will need some em4 practive tho on low heat

[south violet]

EM4 is an off-meta option below 50+, you don't need it yet.

feel free to practice the fight if it's fun to you, but just know it is perfectly feasible to beat 50 heat consistently on the good aspects without EM4 on.

[rancid spade]

oh nice, well I might just leave it for later then, once i hit 50+

[sly cove]

probably 40

i feel like theres no way u can consistently 50 heat but i might just be trash

[hoary pasture]

If confined to a single pact and wep sure you can

Tailesque streaked 10 50h rama runs

I remember Angel did something too but it's been a while

Although at this point some practice is definetly not enough

[ashen garnet]

All aspects aren't 50-streakable tbh

[south violet]

(every aspect is definitely streakable at 40 though)

[rancid spade]

Well i dont mind some RNG, but I just dont want 1 out of 10 or 20 runs that are doable

[sly cove]

actually i believe that but thats also crazy asf to me

[sly cove]

1 out of 20 is the ap2 classic

oh nah wait no antivorime mod sounds so cooked

theres no way u can streak 5+ without qol mods

at 50 heat

[south violet]

on something like zeus? everything maxxed except TD2 RI3, and the other 9 heat at your disposal can be assigned to lower AP or further lower RI. I heard that's pretty consistent, nephi did a winstreak a few months ago too.

[sly cove]

ewww ri3

[south violet]

you're playing zeus. RI3's fine

[sly cove]

im not playing zeus

[south violet]

you were asking about winstreak-viability

one would play zeus for that

[sly cove]

true

i didnt even think abt ap0 ngl

cuz i refuse to em4

[south violet]

(tbf, RI0 works as an alternative too but gives you one heat less to work with and doesn't work well on hammer-reliant aspects)

[frank void]

Does anyone have any tips about sword aspects for FO2? I’d been having a good time with Poseidon, but I fall apart at Hades -_-

Is Nemesis or Arthur worth a try, or is it just a matter of getting enough practice at the timings?

[upper juniper]

Nemesis is absolutely worth a try

A lot of the timings for fo2 is something you just need to learn though by keeping it on

often you don’t go back after learning fo2 because it’s not really worth anything to turn it off once you adjust to the new faster game, your times would be slower and you might even get hit extra times by dodging too early

[frank void]

Ok good to know, thank you!

[soft basin]

i think nem might be a bit harder than possidon if you are struggling with overtime 2 since it necessitates you being next to hades to do damage, unlike possidon where you can kinda camp him out

[south violet]

If nem doesn't work out, there is a general arthur high heat strategy that even at like 40 can let the player half-mindlessly facetank as long as they follow a set of a few rules

[south violet]

(1: keep the special zone active and try to say inside most of the time, 2: use standing strikes against regular rooms, especially if you have shadow slash and don't have double edge, 3: use dashstrikes against heroes and dad if you're unfamiliar with what dad attacks can be avoided while setting up the final third hit)

[ashen garnet]

It's a bit spicier but if the usual sword combos don't click for you, zagsword chopp (world splitter, potentially with athena attack) is also a very decent alternative

[frank void]

Oh interesting, I was assuming my failure with Poseidon meant Arthur was in trouble

Good to know it might be able to overcome it

[frank void]

I did try Nemesis, and it…went poorly for the exact reason you described -_-

[sly cove]

just learn the pattern

after u learn it fo2 is free heat

[cursive portal]

17/24, died to talos furies 💀

that took like 10-12 hours to get there

that was many years ago

like atleast 2.5

[left prism]

Hi angel

[cursive portal]

hello

[latent drum]

#h1-victory-boasting message

i guess the only way is to do cp1 and ri3?

losing the second dash kinda sucks tho

wait running shackle probably helps a lot, i was forcing aphro even tho it didn't help

also how hard is personal liability, i don't have a hell mode save so i haven't been running it

[verbal atlas]

its not too bad, also if you’re on pc you can make your save into a hellmode save through the src modpack

other thing you can still do as well is push up to em4

as well as maybe js3 and maybe more calisthenics program levels

you still dont have to do ri3 for a while more probably

and as a slight note id recommend swapping from fiery presence to shadow as the +50% backstab tends to be more useful over the one time per enemy damage up

[latent drum]

fair enough

em4 😭

[south violet]

Learning EM4 at around this point would help a lot. The absolute furthest you can go without EM4 would be 56 (hestia cannot handle Damage Control, and want at most Routine Inspection 3 because the Stubborn Defiance is too important). If you need practice with EM4, I would recommend learning how to savestate if you don't already.

Modded heat wr is as such 60 (everything except RI4 and DC1/2), and unmodded is 59 (additionally Calisthenics Program 1 instead of 2 because hestia has trouble keeping up on timer in the backhalf of the run)

[south violet]

I am a massive fan of shackle on AP2 hestia indeed, aphrodite/artemis/athena starts can work too but are less consistent in my experience, usually reserved for modded. 👍

On shackle, I would recommend picking up ANY attack at latest in elysium, even if it is kinda bad (often unequipping shackle and taking any boon you see), or keeping shackle, playing through most of ely, and being a bit stingier on your choice of attack (the latter does require you to be pretty good at heroes though).

In other news, would you like your clear to be logged on the community high heat spreadsheet?

[wheat kernel]

What's high heat?

50+?

[south violet]

32+

so a 50 clear definitely would have its place there

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?gid=1855514336#gid=1855514336

[latent drum]

sure lol

man they should've just made hell mode (pl) part of the regular pact

i feel like it'd be pretty free heat

it's the blue shield thing that pops up sometimes right

[forest token]

Yeah whenever you take a lot of hits/damage

[quiet acorn]

Hell mode is stupid

[upper juniper]

Agreed

[left prism]

So true

[shy plinth]

I'm betting that it was soft encouragement for EA players to launch a fresh file with 1.0

But I'm also not surprised they didn't run that back in h2

Didn't really work

[latent drum]

what keepsake do you take asphodel

assuming you get attack

ive been going pom blossom

i used to go charon purse in elysium but started taking acorn

[verbal atlas]

usual keepsake is earring for more additive, collar is kinda an option if you have low max hp entering asphodel, idea being that it lets you take a chaos gate more easily, im personally a fan of taking either athena or artemis because both have good cores and secondaries that you can get

[latent drum]

i don't think i've ever taken earring lol

but it lowkey makes sense usually im at the stubborn defiance 30% anywayys

[latent drum]

got 5 sacked with 4th room tiny vermin when i was on good pace to beat 52 heat 😭

hate this game sometimes

[quiet acorn]

I take tooth