Didn't even realize some perks were stage exclusive. I definitely need to study up then dang
#h1-high-heat-strategies
whole kelp
delicate knoll
Didn't even realize some perks were stage exclusive. I definitely need to study ...
yeah going above 40ish does require some good dedication
upper juniper
Didn't even realize some perks were stage exclusive. I definitely need to study ...
If you ever noticed the ely enemies bursting into explosive pink ghosts as well
covert bramble
can someone explain or link me to a post explaining the reason to pause during cerberus EM4?
quiet acorn
so you can see where the rocks fall and avoid them
covert bramble
that makes sense, i was under the impression if youre in the bottom right corner of the arena they dont reach there anyways, maybe ive just been getting lucky then
left prism
Sometimes dad also decides to show up while cerby is still going
quiet acorn
🙃
forest token
that makes sense, i was under the impression if youre in the bottom right corner...
they do def show up there, i think just less likely
broken echo
that makes sense, i was under the impression if youre in the bottom right corner...
it's still possible, which isn't ideal when it can do 100 damage
maybe like every 1/8 times it falls in that corner
neon sphinx
This is why Charon well the goat
upper quail
What is the best settings for 16 heat and 32 heat
silver mica
upper juniper
What is the best settings for 16 heat and 32 heat
If you’re trying 32 heat, there’s also a 32 heat guide pinned here with general tips and tricks, along with specific tips and builds for each aspect
it’s filled with tons of very valuable information
shy plinth
https://i.imgur.com/UQgfOtx.png
What a great spreadsheet
upper quail
https://i.imgur.com/UQgfOtx.png
Thank you
whole kelp
https://i.imgur.com/UQgfOtx.png
People actually go into LC4 first before getting even one level of Forced Overtime? Goddamn
The healing is like my crutch when I did my heat 32 runs
Id rather deal with HL5 FO1 BP2 CP2 enemies than have LC4
LC4 sounds genuinely insane to take for heat 32 but maybe that's just me
left prism
People actually go into LC4 first before getting even one level of Forced Overti...
People swap to stubborn defiance instead
You use that as your heal/have ways to get 2 defiances through the athena boons still
It asks for a bit more practice on bosses but makes the rooms (that are way more affected by heat) a lot more manageable
It does take a bit of getting used to but we recommend it for a reason
4 heat is a lot
Learning FO is also good ofc but it also depends on the goal
If they wanna climb past 32 is good to get practice on it earlier
But if they only want the statue there is no much need
HL and no healing will be easier overall if they are so slow that they can't hit you
whole kelp
That's pretty eye-opening. Never even gave much consideration tostubborn defiance but damn it does sound pretty useful against Elysium (which has been a brick wall to me in recent 40 heat attempts)
Thanks for the thorough explanation
left prism
You use that as your heal/have ways to get 2 defiances through the athena boons ...
Also what I mean with this
If you lose stubborn defiance then on the same room, pick up either of athena's boons that refill a defiance
You'll first gain a death defiance then stubborn will be back next room
sly cove
What is the best settings for 16 heat and 32 heat
fo2/em2/td3 is 15 + hl1 is pretty easy 16 if ur real
sly cove
That's pretty eye-opening. Never even gave much consideration tostubborn defianc...
40 without lc4 sounds pretty painful
broken echo
That's pretty eye-opening. Never even gave much consideration tostubborn defianc...
Yeah LC4 is almost always taken at 32
delicate knoll
mine was with chiron but I don't remember the pacts
now I'm curious, I should definitely go look for it in my run history
silver mica
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1357434078990827580/screenshot.jpg?ex=6815c340&is=681471c0&hm=0499a42619f7959bf15216021a83c12a39546d5209276f50851d50b422258fde&=&format=webp&width=1376&height=774only like a month ago but heres mine.
i didnt want lc4, i like having a little bit of healing
sly cove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1195818404624474224/im...
oh hl5 lc4 + fo for 32 is fried
broken echo
oh hl5 lc4 + fo for 32 is fried
Lmao
I think I was mostly relying on the unexplained bacon guide
quiet acorn
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/_VrKpROybSMG6mPdrwPOaluT1U56jO_nNtR...
Woah
whole kelp
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/_VrKpROybSMG6mPdrwPOaluT1U56jO_nNtR...
A fellow Bouldy believer <3 he carried my first 32 heat too
delicate knoll
what in the name of zeus am i looking at
js1 cp2 dc2
for 32 heat
with CHIRON
AND THERE'S AP2
what the hell was i smoking 😭
NO TIGHT DEADLINE
it gets worse the more i look at it LMFAO
shy plinth
And RI lol
Also, check out that mirror
It looks like you literally didn't know there was a green side
delicate knoll
It looks like you literally didn't know there was a green side
i knew, dark foresight and fated persuasion were on the other attempts
upper juniper
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1336196112780099614/1367935863367143538...
Goated pact
delicate knoll
silly me just thought privileged status is better
ebon mica
hello I… need some help for the 32 of heat ;-;
upper juniper
What are you looking for help on specifically?
ebon mica
sorry it's very random
delicate knoll
sorry it's very random
we were literally discussing 32 heat 😂
upper juniper
There’s a 32 heat guide that covers practically everything including specific aspects in the pins here but we can also answer any questions
ebon mica
I'm trying to find the better way to put the heat point ;-;
cause like… each confirguration I try have something that makes me loose
upper juniper
if you know how to send imbedded images we can easily take a look at your pact mmm
ebon mica
if you know how to send imbedded images we can easily take a look at your pact m...
kindof I guess I'm not allowed lol
upper juniper
you are you just need to send links to the images instead
Like
I have the same perms you do
shy plinth
Wow what an awesome spreadsheet
upper juniper
I just sent a link to the image instead of the image itself
ebon mica
oki
upper juniper
Wow what an awesome spreadsheet
I stole it from you 
upper juniper
Approval Process 
ebon mica
yes and I can explain…
I'm struggling to beat theseus and the minautor in their boosted version
upper juniper
You don’t need to run em3 to do 32 heat
ebon mica
and due to tight deadline, more ennemies or more HP si hard
upper juniper
But approval process is most likely really helping you lose
ebon mica
I usually fail
ebon mica
But approval process is most likely really helping you lose
yes… it's my firs try with zeus shield, usually I use the twin fist
upper juniper
and due to tight deadline, more ennemies or more HP si hard
The thing is, being consistently able to make a build actually makes the game way easier than running ap2 and avoiding those pacts
shy plinth
Oh jeez ap2
ebon mica
my best attelps was with talos aspect and lose at hades
shy plinth
Yeah this pact is extremely difficult
ebon mica
yes please d'ont judge me…
I'll try something else, i'm not a masochist I'm trying my best…
shy plinth
Not judging, just making sure that we can guide you to a less difficult journey
Can you post your mirror?
ebon mica
Can you post your mirror?
yes
and yes thx you ig I'm just tired and sad nowadays
sorry i'm a bit venting I shouldn't lol
shy plinth
The good news is that also it will not be difficult to align you with a direction that feels less challenging
You're making some of the common mistakes that players routinely encounter on heat journies - you're making yourself weaker instead of making your enemies stronger
ebon mica
okay
ebon mica
You're making some of the common mistakes that players routinely encounter on he...
… sound like pokemon strategy lol
ebon mica
shy plinth
So first of all - dark foresight is so, so much better than olympian favor and will make your runs better.
shy plinth
You have approval process 2 on, so I would argue that you are used to having boons better than common being crossed out
upper juniper
I'm used to amost always having better than common boons lol
The rarity is often less important than just hitting your boons
ebon mica
You have approval process 2 on, so I would argue that you are used to having boo...
shhhhh… don't talk about such things…
(yes…)
ebon mica
The rarity is often less important than just hitting your boons
i've started to figure it out yes
shy plinth
Also as a note, if you are willing to try out stubborn defiance over death defiance, you can get 4 points of heat from Lasting Consequences and it's not as big of an adjustment as you might think
ebon mica
I think i'm in a phase that I start to really understand the game well but it takes time and it's painfool
shy plinth
Generally speaking, Extreme Measures up to EM3 is really worth taking. Calisthenics program is very rarely worth taking - it's a HUGE difficulty spike.
Heightened security will randomly kill you during runs, approval process makes your builds fall apart, and damage control is just kinda slow
ebon mica
Also as a note, if you are willing to try out stubborn defiance over death defia...
… okay i'll not it… it's a bit frightening ^^'
shy plinth
It takes practice - but the most successful pacts we routinely see in this channel for first time 32 clears involve SD+LC4
The pinned 32 heat guide and spreadsheet are full of really good advice on this
ebon mica
Heightened security will randomly kill you during runs, approval process makes y...
heightened security is hard and suually I put jury summon instead
upper juniper
Jury summons, Calesthenics program and damage control are all shooting you in the foot for td3
And generally just your own safety
shy plinth
Yeah
upper juniper
when there are more enemies to attack you and they all live longer you’re more likely to slip up and get hit
shy plinth
The extreme measures bosses take a little getting used to, but compared to every enemy in the game getting harder, it's worth it to just make the bosses a little harder
EM2 in particular with Lernie should not be a big difficulty jump
EM3 is, but it's still worth the 3 heat
ebon mica
EM2 in particular with Lernie should not be a big difficulty jump
yes, it's another variation
theseus and the minautor is really though and that was a big no for me but I'll try
and hades … ouch… it stings…
shy plinth
Do not do EM4
upper juniper
Yeah
shy plinth
Yeah it looks fine
upper juniper
If you were running heavier hitting aspects I’d probably swap to fiery presence but neither zeus shield nor fists really care about it nor can make use of it
ebon mica
oki
oki
does this seems okay…? I've put one more heat in lasting consequences isntead of heightened securityhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1366500355147431936/1367953059426205838/Capture_decran_2025-05-02_a_21.56.39.png?ex=68167510&is=68152390&hm=91bfde5596d19ba681c23a5123aa31725950066d2fc46020c97d4bc69d4d2138&
shy plinth
Did you switch to stubborn defiance?
ebon mica
and I'm still using death defiant for now
shy plinth
I mean, give this a try first
ebon mica
oki
shy plinth
If it doesn't work, read over the pinned 32 heat guide - Bananas gives a good explanation on why SD+LC4 makes sense
The point is to figure out the least painful compromises
ebon mica
yes
shy plinth
DC2 still slows you down but your pact and mirror already look a lot better, so you can see if it works or not
ebon mica
soooo… I have one more of heat more
shy plinth
I personally hate HS
ebon mica
with LC4
ebon mica
I personally hate HS
me too… but I was thinking it was for my own good ;-;
shy plinth
The pact I used to beat all 24 aspects on 32 heat was HL1 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3
The general options that perform well for folks are either that pact or HL5 CF2 FO0
Forced Overtime is pretty tough
It's worth getting used to, but it's a big adjustment at first
upper juniper
HL5 LC4 FO2 lets you turn off a few annoying things tbh
shy plinth
Why
UC is a very easy two heat
I bet you hate it because you've been doing AP2
And because you haven't had dark foresight on
ebon mica
yes…
shy plinth
All you need to do is pick a boon that you know you're gonna sell when you're in tartarus
ebon mica
middle management maybe?
upper juniper
Dark foresight gives you enough boons and UC just ensures that you keep your boon inventory thin
shy plinth
Remove damage control
upper juniper
Dark foresight gives you enough boons and UC just ensures that you keep your boo...
Keeping your inventory thin helps with pomming too
ebon mica
okay
time to pray not to have ti fight the gorgon head ans the statue
lol
so um… thnx for everything, really, i'll try like this, i've changed the mirror and the heat point like you told me, thx a lot
oh and which companion should I use? I usually goes for thanatos one
upper juniper
Battie
She’s just in general better for the speed of which she comes out
You have far less chances of Dad teleporting away from her or anything
upper juniper
It might take a second to adjust to
Do you have a build in mind for your aspect of choice?
Since you’ve been running ap2 I can’t imagine you were ever really able to build towards much
ebon mica
Do you have a build in mind for your aspect of choice?
… not really… I do with what I god and try to get the things that fit kinda well
I have one for the shield of zeus
or some idea at least
but nothing of really good or serious I'm affraid…
ebon mica
Since you’ve been running ap2 I can’t imagine you were ever really able to build...
What I'm doing is that I'm playing with the weapon that have the bonus for having more gemstones and darkness. And I set the heat at the lowest needed to get the "good" rewards (blood, diamond, ambrosia…) expect for fist and shield
So I'm used to play around 8 of heat ^^' (and it's not really hard usually, I often do the run without death defiance)
so I might need some help for a build yes…
broken echo
so I might need some help for a build yes…
yeah zeus on zeus is pretty strong
ebon mica
yeah zeus on zeus is pretty strong
tgx a lot
sly cove
HL5 LC4 FO2 lets you turn off a few annoying things tbh
well hl5 lc4 fo2 em3 mm uc td3 is what 28 so + bp2 is pretty easy 33
or just throw on like bp1 dc2 or smth
main thing is having lc4 and hl5 makes dad kinda hard
if u get the touch of styx dark or an athena dd makes it more comfy at least
quiet acorn
That's so we don't have to type the big words
whole kelp
too many acronyms
pinned messages, pact of punishment acronyms
it's really just the initials of the pacts
whole kelp
i thought that too until i had to talk about the pacts a lot 
gets tiring to type the full names out over and over
you'll get used to it
sly cove
pmo
lime fractal
yuno miles kendrick lamar drake
neon sphinx
man this channel sucks
Also empty as hell
lime fractal
everyone is in the hades 2 channels they already forgot abt this game 💔
shy plinth
I mean. This game has been out for 5 years (not including EA)
Plenty of people in here are more than willing to help for whoever's playing
quiet acorn
never fear i am here
sly cove
chat should i try to go for 50 heat eris instead of studying for my exams
ignore how much i struggled on 16 and 32
delicate knoll
no
education is very important for your future ‼️ you can always play hades later, but you can't go back and fix your exam 😇
quiet acorn
chat should i try to go for 50 heat eris instead of studying for my exams
Did that don't recommend
sly cove
boo
weary panther
what would you guys recommend for baby's first 32 heat
weary panther
Any should work
is it dealers choice or are there any common choices? I assume range or shields are easier?
quiet acorn
hestia easiest 32
sly cove
what would you guys recommend for baby's first 32 heat
beo hesty eris rama are the easiest imo
snow harness
Yeah i did it first try hestia… after trying with beo forever
shadow island
what's a good weapon and build to heat grind with?
weary panther
Yeah i did it first try hestia… after trying with beo forever
Should I just get like any % damage boon on attack and athena dash
broken echo
what's a good weapon and build to heat grind with?
all of the weapons are pretty good for mid levels of heat
what do you like to play?
shadow island
i haven't played for nearly long enough to be able to say
i've only used zag sword, zag fist, and hestia gun
i've been using hestia gun but i wanted to know another weapon i can grind with for when it starts getting too samey and i want some variety
broken echo
i've been using hestia gun but i wanted to know another weapon i can grind with ...
Fists can be pretty funny for heat
Basically just take Zeus attack and look for static discharge, Zeus/dio call, and divine or tidal dash
shadow island
which aspect?
delicate knoll
which aspect?
demeter is the strongest
shadow island
thanks
snow harness
Should I just get like any % damage boon on attack and athena dash
Yeah that works, aphro obviously best attack
sly cove
Should I just get like any % damage boon on attack and athena dash
hunter or tidal usually iirc
sly cove
Yeah that works, aphro obviously best attack
yea u can build for smair
summer spire
Is beowuof or hera the one to avoid ice wine on?
shy plinth
If I recall, ice wine makes beo delayed
forest token
Is beowuof or hera the one to avoid ice wine on?
Both afaik
Ik beo for sure, not too sure about Hera but I would think so as well since it's also a flare
south violet
If I recall, ice wine makes beo delayed
That's less the issue, it's more that it fixes miragebug
And hera uses dio flare unlike for every other cast where it uses shots, thus miragebug is fixed by hera ice wine 👍
neon sphinx
Ik beo for sure, not too sure about Hera but I would think so as well since it's...
Hera isn’t flare?
Since when was it flare
neon sphinx
Oh ok
summer spire
Ik beo for sure, not too sure about Hera but I would think so as well since it's...
Thanks. Trying to do unmodded 50 beo it's tricky
main pawnBOT
This channel (and category) is for discussing the first Hades game. Please go to #h2-discussion to talk about Hades II.
summer spire
Beat 44 unmodded lucifer, I think I took the wrong hammers (zeus attack). Could I get a refresher on which the best hammers are?
upper juniper
Beat 44 unmodded lucifer, I think I took the wrong hammers (zeus attack). Could ...
Triple bomb is hands down the best, then like triple beam and targetting system
Eternal Chamber and Concentrated Beam are good first picks because they boost your odds of triple bomb second hammer
forest token
luci is basically aspect of triple bomb
iirc the high heaters like to start with triple bomb in c1 bc of how important it is
south violet
iirc the high heaters like to start with triple bomb in c1 bc of how important i...
(some)
some go triple aphrospec, others start zeus attack and hope for jolted ASAP
summer spire
Thanks
Yeah that run I turned down triple bomb for triple beam then took the pierce one because I was in elysium
south violet
Yeah that run I turned down triple bomb for triple beam then took the pierce one...
late, but alright this is a crime
triple bomb is still an overwhelmingly solid option for damage if offered, it's just that some players (especially unmodded) don't base their whole build on it (since in unmodded it doesn't show up that often)
south violet
32+ usually
32 is the highest the game expects the player to go, anyway, and is thus counted as the lower-bound for high heat
if it was, say, 16, one could just run FO2 EM2 TD3 and one extra heat point from pretty much anywhere else (doesn't matter too much where from honestly), and then play like normal
(I mean, one can with enough experience play 32 like an anyheat run too, would be easier at 16 though)
faint flax
Ok, thanks for the info
mighty summit
It looks like one of the max heat videos comes from a Chinese player?
forest token
yeah
mighty summit
I didn't know Hades was popular in countries that don't primarily speak English, but I guess it finds its ways
forest token
lmao yeah i think the spanish community is pretty big on hitless/damageless runs?
the world record holder for fresh file is also french
mighty summit
What about Asian countries specifically, like China and Japan?
I'm already aware that a Chinese player cleared max heat
forest token
idk about japan, but the chinese community seems more heat focused
the 3 chinese runnners that are well known are mysterra, bai, and aether
mysterra regularly clears 64 heat with the speedrun modpack with various special boons on zeus shield
bai is the 64 heat run you saw
mighty summit
So then, who was the first to clear max heat? Where were they from?
I closed the sheet but I don't think it was bai
forest token
aether discovered the athena attack guan yu spin build that cleared either 60 or 62 heat initially, and that info let PlayAd clear 64 heat guan yu modded
forest token
So then, who was the first to clear max heat? Where were they from?
unmodded or modded
mighty summit
Unmodded
mighty summit
Who is angel
forest token
if it wasn't mysterra it was angel, but that's basically bc mysterra used to never run hell mode back then lmfao
forest token
Who is angel
mighty summit
Okay, does anyone know where he's from?
forest token
her clear screen is also pinned in #h1-victory-boasting
mighty summit
Oh, it's a she?
forest token
the guy in the thumbnail is a popular roguelite/hades youtuber who a week before the run happened said that 64 heat was unprobable to happen any time soon lmfao
so the speedrun/high heat community thought it'd be funny to include him in the thumbnail
left prism
"you made haelian cry"
mighty summit
Ah, I see
mighty summit
Oh that guy, I think I've seen this video before
So, where is Angel from, then?
Sorry if this is a weird thing to get caught up on
mighty summit
I mean I didn't expect it to be America anyways
forest token
haelian's vid was july 25 2023, angel's was aug 2 2023 lmfao
mighty summit
Quite literally a week after he said it wouldn't be done anytime soon
forest token
yeah lmfao
mighty summit
What do you think is the tag that makes max heat hard more than any other tag?
forest token
the funniest part was that her run took less than an hour accomplish in that sitting (maybe all unmodded attempts bc i dont think she ever tried due to improbability)
forest token
What do you think is the tag that makes max heat hard more than any other tag?
approval process 2 by a mile
mighty summit
It sounds to me like it would be Tight Deadline because if that didn't exist then you could just stall everything to death
And play like a coward
forest token
given time, any player can do hitless runs on their aspect of choice
take away their build tho, then you die to timer
mighty summit
Okay but what if the timer didn't exist in the first place
forest token
would've been done in all aspects years ago
mighty summit
Yeah, that's what I mean
forest token
for most aspects, it's timer
for the ones that can actually play the game at a high level, it's ap2
mighty summit
Is AP the one that forces you to give up a boon at the end of every region?
forest token
for the big gamers, timer isn't an issue, which was proven by PlayAd i believe who did 59 heat unmodded eris who did ap0
no, that's 2 less choices per boon
forest token
you were thinking of underworld conditions, which like 95% of the time is free
mighty summit
But doesn't approval process just makes the run a whole lot more random
forest token
maye 85% or something lower at higher heats, but that's like not the biggest issue by far lmao
forest token
But doesn't approval process just makes the run a whole lot more random
that's why it makes 64 heat more improbable
mighty summit
I see
forest token
you need specific boons to actually get a run started
mighty summit
So AP0 is just more RNG for 5 more heat?
forest token
for zeus, it's explosive return hammer and epic special (this was disproven technically, but for unmodded it's highly recommended)
and also static discharge
also technically disproven but again, very important for timer
forest token
So AP0 is just more RNG for 5 more heat?
"more rng" is putting it lightly but yeah
haelian's video goes through the math of the %s or whatever
mighty summit
But my point is that if it weren't for the time limit then every aspect could do max heat
I'm actually glad they implemented it
forest token
yeah but technically speaking it was more of a build problem rather than timer
mighty summit
Im not sure I still follow
forest token
even tho bad builds die to timer, players knew that they can clear with the right build, which was just incredibly difficult to get at a timely manner
not to mention other bad rng associated with ap2
you are right about the all aspect part
but like in general with just clearing 64, it was always a build problem bc of ap2
mighty summit
So, there's more aspects that could theoretically clear max heat if they just get good rng?
forest token
yeah
some are impossible tho bc of other pacts
which at point, technically speaking, with 0 timer, would make it possible
mighty summit
some are impossible tho bc of other pacts
Any examples?
I assume most, if not all Zag aspects fall into that category
forest token
like rama and eris both cleared unmodded 64 bc the player got a good build (and is also extremely talented)
guan yu also has potential since he cleared modded already, just waiting on the right build rng
forest token
Any examples?
the pacts that really screw over aspects are damage control (generally) and routine inspection 3 for the cast based aspects
some aspects simply do not have the dps to beat 64 actually, but that might be less true if you have ap0 on lmao
mighty summit
RI3 is the one that takes away Infernal Soul from the mirror, right?
forest token
basically like every fist, swords except nemesis, zag and hades spear to name a few
forest token
RI3 is the one that takes away Infernal Soul from the mirror, right?
yeah
more specifically, it forces infernal soul while maintaining 1 cast
so you can't switch to stygian soul and have a longer timer
you're forced onto infernal soul even if you switched it over to stygian
beowulf might've been a 64 heat contender if it wasn't for that
mighty summit
Beowulf's gimmick is consuming a cast for an empowered bull rush?
forest token
and also having the cast burst around them at the end of the rush
mighty summit
I can see why Stygian Soul would be good on it
forest token
well it normally runs infernal bc the +3 is way more consistent
mighty summit
more specifically, it forces infernal soul while maintaining 1 cast
Why do you say it like this? Doesn't it just remove access to both potential cast perks in their entirety?
forest token
but stygian can be used so like every 5 seconds (for the theoretical 64 heat run) you get a burst, which is much safer than having to get your cast
forest token
Why do you say it like this? Doesn't it just remove access to both potential ca...
i guess that's also true yeah
but like
fated persuasion/authority still work even if you switched sides
from picking up keys
forest token
yeah so it's kinda like, if one works why not the other
i guess technically speaking you don't start out with fated persuasion/authority and 1 stone is default
but still an inconsistency
quiet acorn
like rama and eris both cleared unmodded 64 bc the player got a good build (and ...
Eris was modded
forest token
oh what
quiet acorn
Or did I miss something
quiet acorn
Cuz unmodded 64 is crazy
quiet acorn
Yeah i know rmaa
forest token
okay yeah you're right i dont see unmodded eris on his channel
quiet acorn
Yeah he did modded 64 twice
upper juniper
I assume most, if not all Zag aspects fall into that category
Not all the zag aspects tbh
Zag rail should be able to do it with good enough rng
forest token
yeah if you get rd lmfao
eris is already close as is
spread fire isn't really viable
upper juniper
I’d love to say zag bow but dc is genuinely a massive problem tbh
Zag spear is just discount achilles, so it should be possible
mighty summit
Also, question? You guys say as if Explosive Return is the best shield hammer to get
upper juniper
It’s the best hammer for zeus shield
mighty summit
What does it do for zeus shield
upper juniper
The other hammers would rather charged shot for everything but extreme high heat (60+)
upper juniper
What does it do for zeus shield
Same thing as regular shield but you’re using your special for once
50 base damage aoe around you on the special returning to you
It’s actually really solid damage with a decent aoe range
mighty summit
can the base damage be increased with boons?
upper juniper
yeah all special damage +% affects it
mighty summit
okay that does sound pretty strong
upper juniper
and your cores side-effects
It’s just like adding another hit to your shield special for a fair bit more damage
mighty summit
What about Chaos Shield though? Doesn't that also depend on shield throwing?
upper juniper
A) chaos shield in practical play virtually never specials
B) it only affects a single shield return for chaos
mighty summit
Even though its whole gimmick is more shield throws?
upper juniper
Even though its whole gimmick is more shield throws?
It doesn’t do a good job at it though
You’re better off just running charged shot
left prism
Even though its whole gimmick is more shield throws?
The other difference is that you can't yo-yo chaos special
mighty summit
It was the weapon I got my heat record with before people told me it was bad
upper juniper
Specialing on chaos is like trying to make use of the attack speed boost on zag sword when dash striking is right there
left prism
And you are disabling your attack each time you special
upper juniper
It was the weapon I got my heat record with before people told me it was bad
You can have success with chaos despite it being the 4th best shield aspect like
Nothing stops you from making use of it, it just can’t hold up under higher difficulty
mighty summit
alright
upper juniper
And at that point, it’s own niche of extra shields on special just isn’t more useful than striking normally
so by then it’s just a bad zag shield
and zag shield isn’t exactly zeus or beowulf
mighty summit
I don't know anything about the meta in this game
I barely know much about builds in general
forest token
explosive return is a lot more impactful with aphrodite special than zeus special on zeus shield as a side note
base 50 with a massive % is your whole build and is much more consistent than zeus special
and the power is pretty damn close, zeus just has a higher ceiling if you get the right rng
upper juniper
Both zeus and aphrodite will readily take all the special +% they can get from chaos as is
so it should still be useful on a zeus build, just not as useful as aphro
mighty summit
Is aphrodite the biggest multiplier?
left prism
yup
upper juniper
Is aphrodite the biggest multiplier?
For both strike and special
The other gods and goddesses technically swap places between strike and special but in practice not really
sly cove
The other hammers would rather charged shot for everything but extreme high heat...
i watched 62 zagshield the other day and it uses cshot checkmate liberal
upper juniper
i watched 62 zagshield the other day and it uses cshot checkmate liberal
AP2 moment
jaunty falcon
no it’s desired
mighty summit
Okay I need help doing 32 heat
I want to clear it with EM4 and Aspect of Achilles specifically and I don't wanna negotiate those parts, but I'm not sure how to build beyond that
Currently I've just been using Ares to get Vicious Cycle and Hunting Blades
But even if I get both of those, Hades is a real challenge
My best attempt thus far died when he summoned Cerberus
Should I pursue a different kind of build?
forest token
the build is fine really
you dont really need to aim for vicious cycle but you might as well i suppose lmao
what's the rest of your pact like?
mighty summit
let me check
forest token
bc em4, while not recommended for 32 heat, should totally be doable
mighty summit
Okay, I can't post the screenshot here
the full set is CF1, EM4, BP2, MM, UC, FO2, and TD3
I don't think I missed anything
Everything else should be untouched
forest token
yeah that's 32
i'm assuming you're not losing any DD's before the em4 fight
but yeah pact's fine, the only real thing is if you want to tone down fo2 to make the fight easier
mighty summit
Actually I am kind of struggling with Asterius specifically in the Elysium bossfight
mighty summit
but yeah pact's fine, the only real thing is if you want to tone down fo2 to mak...
what would I replace it with?
forest token
fo1, dc2, the last 1 heat you can throw anywhere btwn hl1, lc1, cf2, or js1
shy plinth
What's the mirror?
forest token
if you want to do fo0, you're gonna have to put those extra 3 heat into wherever i mentioned earlier
forest token
Actually I am kind of struggling with Asterius specifically in the Elysium bossf...
you have hunting blades, you should kinda be playing like hit and run
i would recommend taking chaos gates for +casts or +cast%
shy plinth
But even if I get both of those, Hades is a real challenge
I think it's probs worth noting that this is just em4
It will be more difficult to do 32 with specifically em4 and specifically this build
But yeah, build is fine, em4 is just really hard
mighty summit
fair enough
I guess I'll keep trying to get to him without losing any defiances
And see from there
mighty summit
I really wish I could screenshot it
shy plinth
Post it to imgur and paste the link
mighty summit
I dont have an imgur account
shy plinth
Sure
quiet acorn
Do you need one to upload?
No
mighty summit
oh huh, weird
mighty summit
https://imgur.com/a/Dmrdwba oh so it does
quiet acorn
Copying media link is easier anyway
quiet acorn
mighty summit
I guess I need to just stop being so reckless, but at the same time I worry I don't have the time to not be
Sometimes I go into the Hades fight with 5 minutes still on the timer
shy plinth
I mean if you’re routinely getting to hades with achilles as an aspect I assume you’re fine
mighty summit
or more
shy plinth
You have a lot of pacts on that make runs pretty fast, but having extra time on the timer doesn’t matter if you are dead
This is probably just a question of reps but if you record a run it would be easy to provide that and get some pretty decent feedback
mighty summit
I actually did record my previous attempt, I could upload it in a moment
mighty summit
one moment, video is like half an hour long so it'll take a moment
I'll ping you when it's ready
shy plinth
Yeah just post it here
forest token
ping me too lmao
shy plinth
Posting it here will make sure the proper degens see it
mighty summit
You have a lot of pacts on that make runs pretty fast, but having extra time on ...
About this, I could go down extra passages in Styx, but the issue is that I end up taking more damage going down any more than it's wortn
shy plinth
Oh I mean take more time in the fights
Not a lot more but a little more
You said "reckless" so I assumed you were rushing
mighty summit
The video is still being uploaded, about 11 minutes left and then it has to process a little
mighty summit
@forest token @shy plinth here it is
https://youtu.be/vR7FJGh29p0
Are you guys watching it
shy plinth
I'm poking through, I'm sure bananas and others will get a chance to watch soon/in the next day if they haven't already
Can I ask why this aspect, this build, and this pact?
Like why achilles/hunting blades/em4 specifically
mighty summit
Achilles is just the thing I'm most comfortable with
EM4 is a personal thing. I don't intend to push the heat any further than this and I felt like I wanted to clear 3-Phase Hades at a sizable heat level at least once
The build I'm not actually 100% sure is the best
upper juniper
hunting blades is a pretty typical build for achilles I think
mighty summit
It's just something that got me this far, but I don't know if it works here
shy plinth
Blades is fine, though I think I have questions about the execution towards the end
Just wanted to make sure I understood the goals and motivation
It looks like you worked really hard to get blades, but towards the end of phase 1 and beginning of phase 2 for hades, you kept doing achilles charges without picking up your casts
It really hurt your damage output and I was wondering what the thought process was there
forest token
do you want all the notes in a single text message or do you want to me to say them as i see them
mighty summit
do you want all the notes in a single text message or do you want to me to say t...
I'd prefer you to say as you see, so I could maybe respond and explain them one by one
forest token
alright c2 chaos, should've just taken the enshrouded shot (no chamber preview, +1 stone)
it's tartarus, so you should be fine with what you face
yeah not knowing rewards suck, but since your problem is heroes/em4, you have plenty of time to get hunting blades online
using a roll doesn't help that either
mighty summit
I see
forest token
also standard combo for achilles is special 2x (raging rush) -> 2 dash strikes -> repeat. obv mix your cast in there somewhere, but in tartarus you don't exactly need your cast except for the tankier enemies
also to note, raging rush buff doesn't stack, so you have to use all 4 charges before you can refresh the buff
mighty summit
You can't just refresh the amount of stacks by using it again?
forest token
at 1:40, don't prioritize using your special through enemies. yeah damage is damage, but your dash strikes do a lot of damage with 150% buff, esp in tartarus
forest token
You can't just refresh the amount of stacks by using it again?
unfortunately no
mighty summit
That's dumb
forest token
yeah lmao
okay i guess you got breaching rush from the hammer so you can special through the armored enemies for armor break, but otherwise don't worry about that at all lmfao
mighty summit
at 1:40, don't prioritize using your special through enemies. yeah damage is dam...
I'm using the special for mobility half the time, usually I get Serrated Point from the hammer for more DPS but that hinders my dash so I opt to get around with the special
forest token
try and get flurry jab
"try" as if you have a choice most of the time lmao
but if you see it, take it
mighty summit
try and get flurry jab
That sounds like a whatever hammer though? All it does is enable you to swing automatically by holding the button down, does it not?
forest token
yeah that's the point lmao
it also forces an attack after a dash strike, so you use all 4 charges of the raging rush
shy plinth
Flurry jab is really good
mighty summit
I mean not like the spin is useful but I thought I would be better off just clicking a lot
forest token
flurry jab lets you click a lot
mighty summit
I don't follow
upper juniper
Flurry lets you hold down m1 a lot
forest token
achilles is unironically the aspect where the faster you mash, the faster you go (and thus more damage)
upper juniper
I don't follow
It pretty much instantly causes a standing strike after your dash strikes
mighty summit
Oh huh
delicate knoll
flurry jab causes you to instantly do a standing strike after dash attacks, it's nearly simultaneous
shy plinth
Don't think of it as "it is a substitute for my input speed"
It actually changes the flow of your buffered attacks
forest token
to be clear, you still dont really want to be holding down m1 on achilles for your dash attacks, you just do more damage lmao
i haven't played the game in a while, so i'm trying to remember how much damage achilles is supposed to do, and it just kinda feels that your damage is quite low
and that's prob bc of flurry jab
granted there's nothing you can really do about that
at 2:53, wait until the bombers are more grouped to use meg
or you can use the speedrunning trick and guarantee to hit the 2 bigger ones
mighty summit
How do I group them up
forest token
they'll typically jump to you so play in a certain area
like at 3:00 or 3:01 the grouping is pretty good there
3:21, should've taken divine dash lmao
quiet acorn
That sounds like a whatever hammer though? All it does is enable you to swing a...
No it lets u attack atleast twice as fast or even more ithink
mighty summit
3:21, should've taken divine dash lmao
Honestly I don't know what I was looking for there
forest token
athena attack is fine, but you'd rather have artemis. you already have a consistent 150% with achilles, so the crits will be more useful
quiet acorn
Mm bombers meg is unnecessary imo
forest token
and your damage is gonna come from your cast late game anyways
forest token
Honestly I don't know what I was looking for there
if it's not artemis or ares, just take whatever that isn't pommable or divine dash
mighty summit
What does Athena have that isn't pommable
delicate knoll
sure footing?
shy plinth
Last stand
forest token
4:05, no need to buy athena at all, she's not part of hunting blades
and again, no need to roll lol
you're like half or 3/4 way through tart and you already used all your rolls basically, and you dont have any to roll for hunting blades after you get artemis
quiet acorn
O is there a video
mighty summit
Am I expected to get hunting blades before I leave Asphodel?
forest token
not really but you can certainly try
you're already guaranteed artemis on the midboss basically
afterwards, you can hope to get her out of the endshop
or rng her in midshop and get hunting blades out of midboss
but it's not likely, so you kinda just gotta get it in elysium sometimes
shy plinth
I think it's a good question to ask "what purpose is this roll serving"
You have 4 for the entire run
And if you get an unlucky hit on purging pools midgame you'll probs wish you had an extra
Spending three in tart seems really fast
mighty summit
Ack, I can't keep my eyes open anymore. I'm going to get some sleep, leave any more feedback you might have and I'll look at it when I wake back up
forest token
6:45, in asphodel unironically kinda just dont use your cast until you have hunting blades lmao. enemies jump way too much for it to actually hit
lmao aight gn
6:50, def could've dashed out to not get hit by the death bomb instead of using your special. tbf, so far a lot of it feels like you need cleaner gameplay but the main focus is bosses i suppose, but i do thing that you should be more intentional with your dashes and dash strikes
also, try traversing with raging rush by spamming special twice, dashing twice, and repeating
especially in combat, since you wont be immobile and you'll cover ground faster
7:50, roll instead of taking engulfing vortex. yeah it's a good boon and you'll want it later, but hunting blades is much more useful then engulfing
you've got a roll left anyways, might as well use it since you're not guaranteed artemis/ares later
8:05, hyper sprint > side hustle by a mile. yeah the cash will offset cf1, but hyper sprint -> rush delivery will give you way more damage, which is more important here. also, the sturdy is more useful than you think, esp considering how achilles plays
8:19, use this for your meg line up on witches circle
https://imgur.com/7eeloKL
stand at blue, attack at the top witch, and summon meg as soon as the 4th witch (red circle) appears on screen
should consistently hit 4, sometimes 3 but most of the time 4
upper juniper
What does Athena have that isn't pommable
Both stand boons
Since they give you a dd on pick-up
forest token
8:48, rare crop technically fine but would've rather taken ravenous will bc 1) unpommable 2) sellable and 3) you're often without cast on achilles, so it is a free damage boost even tho it's only 10%
10:19 and 10:45, never pom artemis attack. it's not worth anything since you're only using her for crits. poms should go onto your cast, since that's where your damage is coming from late game
hydra fight, without hunting blades you shouldn't really cast except for when the heads are spawning in and when the main head's invulnerability ends. the heads aren't as mobile so you can do it after they spawn in and could work out, but the main head moves a lot so it's not as consistent. doing it when the bubble drops is way more consistent and will net a lot more damage. you did get a bit unlucky with the hydra head, but it should still work decently well
12:00ish, don't use standing attacks unless they're already low enough to die from it (or if you have flurry jab, but same low hp principle basically). keep the raging rush -> dash strikes combo going as much as you can
12:45, 2 things. 1) check charon well -> purging pool -> keepsake box. if something good's in the well, you can consider taking charon's hourglass. namely looking for +cast, +cast%, or hydralite for you. 2) never take mom pom ever. you have too many boons for it to actually hit what you want. you should take acorn in elysium, especially since you struggle with asterius. wont help against midboss asteruis, but at least it'll work for the endboss
12:52, i would consider buying the stone. yeah it's 70 bucks, but another cast is always helpful. could've considered taking hourglass if you saw this earlier. also, enemies in elysium tend to group up more other than the archers. you'll be able to utilize the base cast a decent amount, especially when they spawn in. elysium is a damage check, and you don't exactly have the damage you're looking for and don't have any back up damage like tidal dash
13:30 and 14:08, always check if you have the raging rush buff active before waves spawn in. double tapping your special is fast and should still let you throw a cast onto spawning enemies. granted, they were archers and ran away immediately, but this is something that applies to the whole run
16:00, take ares special. yeah it sucks, but you want to fill your core boons (attack, special, cast, dash). if at least one of them is empty, gods will always offer one of them. you want to fill them asap as long as they dont open any unwanted duos
16:10, against flamewheels, especially with divine dash, don't bother with raging rush. you can just dash strike them to death. much safer and you'll have more control
17:40, trials cannot offer duos. never take them, especially in elysium. you lost a lot of hp in the room. i guess you could get more boons to sell, but i'm pretty sure you dont need more boons. artemis doesn't really offer that many useful supporting boons, ares you could get a bigger vortex or the legendary i guess but that shouldn't be your priority
18:55, i would consider taking proud bearing. starting fights with athena call is nice. you don't really seem to have problems with traps (so far)
19:15, as soon as the fight starts, tap up and summon meg. you're guaranteed to hit both. your idea of how to take the fight is good, but the execution isn't that clean, no offense lol. ofc no hunting blades hurts, but you're late to a lot of dashes and don't seem to pay attention to where theseus is. tracking theseus is difficult when you're dealing with the bull, but learning that just comes with time. same thing with timing dashes. gotta see the swings earlier/faster to react
21:35, should've sold engulfing vortex. at this point without hunting blades, you're gonna need the cash to buy it from the shop if you have to. engulfing doesn't really do much for you in styx either considering how small the rooms are.
i'm out of characters now lmao next message
shy plinth
The goat
forest token
22:05, you typically want to take the miniboss rooms first. they're more consistent and predictable with the minibosses, esp since in the larger rooms, poison darts can hit you out of nowhere. granted, i am modded-pilled so i don't have to deal with tiny vermin, and you luckily didn't take too much damage in the first room you took. but it is something to consider. can't fault you too much either for taking the ares door first for hunting blades. unlucky no duo tho
25:10, don't do more rooms after you get the sack. yes you did finally get hunting blades in the shop after your first door, which did carry your damage so you didn't lose too much hp, and you have enough of a time bank, but it's typically just not worth the risk. the pom you bought out of it does help with the damage ofc, but at that point you should just leave and start the em4 fight
alright in all honesty, i should mention that i dont regularly do em4, so i could be wrong on certain facts here.
general tips:
- try and stay on one side or one corner of the map. people typically like the bottom right of the map by the river. concentrating your focus there helps with keeping track of the fight and the skull waves. any of the farther ones you should be able to notice the waves before they hit you. any skulls that do land near you, you can kill fast. staying in a corner also helps with making the fight faster since hades doesn't run that much, and if he does, he'll come back to you anyways. this place is also relatively safe from cerby when he does run through iirc
- unlucky you got butterfly balls, so rip acorn. idrk what people really do here, maybe try and kill the first one? so it doesn't stack up idk
- try and use athena small calls (and lowkey any call other than aphrodite or artemis) more often. on achilles (esp hunting blades), you can get away with using it on cooldown bc you charge call so fast. athena full call is really good ofc, but i think for you, you should take the small bursts of invincibility. you'll maintain more hp throughout the fight so you'd probably panic less.
22:36, i'm pretty sure hades always throws 3 casts whenever he does that. after the first, be more mindful with your dashes so you don't waste acorn (or take 2x damage once that runs out)
28:15, take the time with athena's full call to grab your casts sooner. your casts are your priority, not your attacks.
28:28, whenever hades disappears and reappears, dont attack him immediately. he'll always do an attack out of it, so dodge that first and then do your thing.
i think overall, the like macro? the decision making was mostly fine for the most part other than like the rolls
all the other choices were pretty minute overall, kinda just like optimizations rather than "this is why you didn't clear" sorta thing
the biggest thing i saw was that you kinda just mash too much. i did say that the faster you mash, the more damage you do on achilles, but they're still calculated mashing (mostly). you take a lot of damage bc you're inputting damage buttons rather than empty dashing on wind ups.
achilles is very fun to play by just hitting buttons and zipping around in fights, but you just get hit a lot bc of it
toning down fo2 to fo1 could help if you want to consider doing that, you'll have more time to dash accordingly and the 3 heat i suggested earlier to take in place shouldn't cause too many problems i think
dc2 might make your tartarus take more time, but that's something you can prob get around with cleaner play. also maybe dont take cf2 if you drop to fo1, buying your build helps a lot
also something to consider: starting with tidal dash. it's a lot of supplemental damage that helps a ton in every fight. it is an adjustment (and iirc with dc2 it's a pretty huge pain, i almost timed out in tartarus when i did it), but the damage is just really good. it adds more build flexibility, although hunting blades is still the best option afterwards.
admittedly, it is a speedrun strat, but i do think the added damage will help in normal encounters and boss fights, especially if you dont get your duo in a timely manner
it would open unwanted duos and you have to rng into the right duo, but imo can be worth it
ideally you get hunting blades again, but you'd also open mirage shot with artemis. ofc not a bad thing, but you want hunting blades first. if it shows up, just take it so it's out of the boon pool and hope you get it next time
other build paths include lightning phalanx and ice wine. lightning phalanx you go for athena cast -> zeus attack (and static discharge) -> get the duo. it's a pretty large aoe and has massive base damage, and the bouncing can rack up huge numbers. it would involve a bit more cast chasing, but athena's cast is more usable before you get the duo. this is really good if you get good grouping, especially in the heroes fight. unfortunately, it's not too great against em4, but a pommed athena cast can still chunk. also someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the cast can bounce against walls to hit the same target again? not sure on that. you open up unshakable mettle, which is useless basically, but take it for the same reason as before.
ice wine is a bit iffy, but it's actually really good damage. dio cast -> demeter somewhere -> get the duo. ice wine removes the lob time and is basically near instant. dio cast does huge damage already, so it's a pretty solid start. it relies more on your mechanical skill and attacks for damage since you have to wait to pick up your casts, but you have tidal dash so you can still deal meaningful damage. it's not as good aoe damage as either of the other two, but it has slightly better em4 fight than lightning phalanx since it doesn't bounce. you just kinda gotta wait, but you can still deal damage with tidal dash. you open up exclusive access, same rules as before.
anyways i think that's it lmao
forest token
I did a run a while ago with achilles that was only em2 (it was a cursed pact with js3, cp2, and dc2), but i think the early game helps show how tidal dash would work in combat. i did make a lot of mistakes and played aggressively, but that was bc i was running stubborn defiance, so i knew my hp wasn't really gonna be an issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe5cIPBbfJg
also just realizing that maybe dc2 wasn't the problem with tidal dash achilles, maybe it was everything else that made tart super slow lmfao
i should note that i did get hunting blades quite early in asphodel so it's not exactly a fair representation for the back half
hoary pasture
left prism
Bananas? More like, goat
mighty summit
Alright I finally woke up and got around to reading all that
I'll try to remember as much of it as I can, thanks
mighty summit
I did a run a while ago with achilles that was only em2 (it was a cursed pact wi...
Wait why do you have a FOURTH option on Poseidon
mighty summit
Oh
mighty summit
Alright I tried DC2
It makes me take a lot longer than I ever would have expected
I ran out of time and died just before the heroes
I think I'm gonna stick with FO2
Honestly, I'm losing more DDs with the other pacts than this
delicate knoll
dc2 depends on aspect
mighty summit
Okay I went back to FO2
And I got a clear shortly after
I even got a new PB clear time
@forest token thanks for all the advice, I did it!
quiet acorn
yay
shy plinth
Well done
quiet acorn
thanks
forest token
<@384127040992837633> thanks for all the advice, I did it!
Hell yeah nice
Now time for 40 
mighty summit
Wasn't planning on going any higher than 32
forest token
Lmao fair enough
sly cove
lame
neon sphinx
I did all aspects 32+fists 40 fear and I’m done with heat
delicate knoll
I did all aspects 32+fists 40 fear and I’m done with heat
erm, spoilers?
neon sphinx
erm, spoilers?
???
south violet
I did all aspects 32+fists 40 fear and I’m done with heat
wrong game there, buddy
ashen garnet
Spoilers allowed in the channel's description btw
broken echo
🗿
jaunty falcon
There’s no more sticky bot!!!
delicate knoll
the age of order is over. anarchy will reign
sly cove
There’s no more sticky bot!!!
WE'RE FREE
quiet acorn
H2 is out?
upper juniper
H2 is out?
It’s been long enough since early access dropped for H2 that stickybot doesn’t really have much value anymore
It’ll probably be back for the full release
neon sphinx
wrong game there, buddy
Other weapons aren’t real
gloomy light
I've finally decided to bite the bullet and try a 32 heat run, any advice on which debuffs to choose?
quiet acorn
I've finally decided to bite the bullet and try a 32 heat run, any advice on whi...
pins
gloomy light
Thanks, mate
sly cove
holy dude i am washed at rama
sly cove
oops
i just lost my run cuz i messed up hug
but i quit in the middle cuz i forgot to pop tooth on lernie so i probably shouldnt have won
i also realized that i was dying with rama because i was putting zeus on attack and % on special
oops!
not the one i lost on dad
also i still cant hit my megs
forest token
i also realized that i was dying with rama because i was putting zeus on attack ...
Close enough tbh
neon sphinx
holy dude i am washed at rama
Rama so op that you can crank out wins with Dio attack
sand sonnet
Two related questions: Where do "we" typically draw the line that "hig heat" starts? And at what point do I start really insisting on a good seed with great first-room options vs pressing forward as long as Tartarus isn't garbage?
For context I had a 40+ run string of successes until I started hitting 16+ heat, and now I only succeed about 50% of the time. So I'm trying to recalibrate my expectations and think about how what I'm doing now is truly different than lower heat where, eg, I'd accept an imperfect build as just "part of the game" or an opportunity to experiment.
upper juniper
Two related questions: Where do "we" typically draw the line that "hig heat" sta...
32 heat is kind of the first line, and then you bump up to 40 heat and then 50 and then you start going individual heat levels
and really any of those bars are where someone refering to “high heat” could start the line tbh
upper juniper
Two related questions: Where do "we" typically draw the line that "hig heat" sta...
On your 40+ streak, as you start pushing heat up, it’s value drops to like
not nearly as much as just getting a win on the next rung yk
Your success rate is going to go down as you push up the difficulty, and then you get used to it, and then you start winning more often on higher heats
quiet acorn
lol so I’m not even close yet
yeah upto 32 atleast you should be able to work with most of the seeds that you get
sly cove
yea i dont think im that good and like i just took one or two runs at most at 32 on every aotw for a while
south violet
32 heat is kind of the first line, and then you bump up to 40 heat and then 50 a...
45?
sly cove
45 is a stepping stone to 50
40-50 is a big difficulty jump fs
cuz u add in at least 1 of ap2/ri/em4/finish the rest of heat
tropic prairie
lol so I’m not even close yet
up to 32~ it's more about game knowledge than skill/reflexes, you'll get there
forest token
Two related questions: Where do "we" typically draw the line that "hig heat" sta...
Tbf the first boon you get is a 75% chance of getting what you want, and that typically matters a lot but that's like with any run basically. The lower heat levels you can get away with not caring about it typically, but the higher you go the more it matters.
Also your 16 heat runs depend on your pact, bc you might be making it more difficult than it has to be for just 16
upper juniper
Tbf the first boon you get is a 75% chance of getting what you want, and that ty...
Speaking of this, if you aren’t using god keepsakes to guarantee your build you are severely shooting yourself in the foot tbh
sand sonnet
Speaking of this, if you aren’t using god keepsakes to guarantee your build you ...
It’s been literally years since I didn’t use god keepsakes in the first two regions, lol. That part I have down
broken echo
Two related questions: Where do "we" typically draw the line that "hig heat" sta...
50 can be streaked pretty well on good aspects, 40 on others. It’s a function of experience as well though
You’d typically insist on a starting boon(with rarity) and hammer at 50+
sly cove
45 heat time
sly cove
bro why does luci have trash boss damae
triple bomb + blue level 3 dem spec cannot be this bad right
i should not need multiple rounds to kill satyrs
nvermind it was fine dad damage why was it so bad vs satyrs and blue men 😭
south violet
Honestly if you wish to base your damage off of triple bomb + a strong special (which is a sane thing to do since you play modded), feel free to run that same 40 heat pact + AP2 (sounds crazy, I know)
The only scary part is finding a reliable way to set off the bombs (usually a zeus attack or any damaging dash)
I'm no ultimate authority on high heat but in the modded attempts I threw at lucifer 50, aphro-special triple bomb seems like the more reliable modded strategy than zeusattack
forest token
nvermind it was fine dad damage why was it so bad vs satyrs and blue men 😭
Maybe they all didn't hit or you were expecting them to die lmao
It's base 300 damage which like is high but also rare lvl 3 Dem isn't that high I don't think?
But like against dad you were expecting chunks not like instaphases which was why it felt better
sly cove
I'm no ultimate authority on high heat but in the modded attempts I threw at luc...
fair, however dc2 numbskulls
sly cove
Maybe they all didn't hit or you were expecting them to die lmao
well it was like 3shotting the satyrs
as in i dropped all 3 bombs
and popped dc2 beforehand
and it took 2-3 repetitions
south violet
fair, however dc2 numbskulls
"Just don't run Damage Control on special-start luci" 
forest token
well it was like 3shotting the satyrs
It's rare lvl 3 Dem special lmao
What % is that
Your screenshot shows lvl2 and it does 107% lmao satyrs are tanky as hell
1300 hp, about 2 volleys should kill generally
sly cove
Your screenshot shows lvl2 and it does 107% lmao satyrs are tanky as hell
oops
it was level 2
i was gonna pom it but then i pommed jolt instead
and then i didnt think through and bought dem + heart insstead of level 2 pom in shop
sly cove
1300 hp, about 2 volleys should kill generally
might just be thninking in terms of beo where a volley just nukes everything
upper juniper
does quick recovery work with lc4
Pretty sure it does not
forest token
it does
tawny kiln
I want to do my first 8 heat run so I can start doing more high heat runs, what heats and aspect is recommended for my first time
delicate knoll
I want to do my first 8 heat run so I can start doing more high heat runs, what ...
you can try following this
tawny kiln
Oh dang didn’t know that was there, should I use a certain aspect?
delicate knoll
everything is good until 40ish heat, use whichever aspect you like the most
since you're doing difficult runs, it's important to play something you enjoy to minimize frustration
south violet
(there are limits to how true this statement is depending on pact and strategy, but yeah below 40 on a reasonable pact/mirrorsetup/strategy you should be fine to do whatever)
sly cove
I want to do my first 8 heat run so I can start doing more high heat runs, what ...
run fo2 its free heat if you just get used to it
sly cove
purple dashes crossed out
and sea storm, and a revive, and every single potential special
south violet
is this modded rama
sly cove
and i died to blue shield armored shield guys
sly cove
is this modded rama
no its modded luci
south violet
I'm sorry for your loss
anyway probably start aphro special, found it to be more consistent especially modded
because you have guaranteed triple bomb
sly cove
honestly im considering it
problem is its way harder to activate the bombs
and break dc2 early
south violet
problem is its way harder to activate the bombs
getting any damaging dash works, or zeus attack
very consistent modded strat
south violet
sly cove
dude
do u know how long it took me to get a passable run with passion beo
and like 3/6 or whatever dem offerings trigger pstatus
forest token
Take ri2 lmfao
sly cove
ri2 is bad because it takes away thick skin
right
💀💀💀
ri1 is fried enough bro
dark foresight AND rolls
ashen garnet
Thickskin is 1 Erebus HP, RI2 jump arguably more free than RI1 for the heat gain at 50+
sly cove
Thickskin is 1 Erebus HP, RI2 jump arguably more free than RI1 for the heat gain...
erebus hp :haha:
especially combined with df
i can honestly see it tho
thick quiver
EM4 is just absolutely absurd
it should be worth like, 10 heat
I did my first 32 heat run, BLAZED through it no problem, until I ran into Hades at the end and I got absolutely demolished, with a totally cracked boon setup and 5 death defiances from chaos legendary and skelly tooth
I got him down to half health in his second phase before I died
I also had hard labor 5 and calisthenics 2
I was using aspect of nemesis
shy plinth
EM4 is very difficult, 4 heat feels like an appropriate amount to me and there's a reason why it's not recommended at 32
I will say that HL5 CP2 is going to be really tough without EM4 - CP2 is definitely not recommended until higher heat levels. The amount of health bosses gain is huge
Giving hades an extra 30% health per phase on EM4 means giving him (6600+6600+5280) = ~18k health
For reference, non-em4 hades has 17k health per phase. So you basically added a phase worth's of health to him
If you post your pact and mirror, I'm sure folks would be happy to take a look and see if you have other options - plus there are a lot of great materials in the pins. Bananas' guide is 10/10
thick quiver
EM4 is very difficult, 4 heat feels like an appropriate amount to me and there's...
Even when I was playing at lower heat and had no other pact of punishment modifiers to make him stronger it still felt like a herculean feat to beat him
shy plinth
It's a significant difficulty increase and it places all the pressure of the run right at the end
But it's also I think the single largest heat increase you can do - 4 points is a lot that you can save somewhere else
thick quiver
his green urn traps were doing ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DAMAGE TO ME
thick quiver
oh yeah I did
thick quiver
I did not know those counted as traps, I thought they counted as enemy attacks
shy plinth
They are indeed traps
thick quiver
okay so defintiely no heightened security with em4 lol
shy plinth
Yep
I think typical 32 heat pacts don't include either
HS can also be pretty challenging
thick quiver
I take HS because I'm pretty good at not getting hit by traps so it feels like a free heat point for me
shy plinth
Sure, it just tends to be a pretty significant punishment and the ratio of cost to reward feels a bit under to me - for one point you can just randomly get one shot for a small mistake
But up to you of course, just be wary of the jars
thick quiver
EM 1-3 feels like free heat also, feels like I just had to relearn how to properly fight the bosses but they felt more or less pretty similar
shy plinth
The first 3 extreme measures are definitely recommended and they're good heats to internalize early
Same with things like middle management and benefits program
I have a chart in the pins here that shows the path I usually recommend for building up to 32 heat
EM1-3, MM, and BP are pretty early
UC as well
thick quiver
I always take middle management and benefits package 2 although bp2 can be really brutal sometimes, one time in like the second room in the run I got a room absolutely packed with armored witches with the bp speed buff and the buff that makes them summon clones
thick quiver
I think it's kinda silly how the take no damage rooms can spawn literally right at the start because if I fail it I'm obviously just going to restart the run
btw is there any reason to take those rooms when there's a boon in it, unless it's a god I particularly want? Do they have a higher chance of giving me better boons or something? I wonder the same thing with temple of styx miniboss rooms with boons as well
shy plinth
Generally I think people don't tend to take erebus gates as much
For styx, the typical play is to take the two miniboss rooms early
They are faster, they give better rewards, and if you two sack then you get a stronger reward without having to do the fight
thick quiver
I noticed a lot of the time depending on my boon setup the temple of styx boss rooms are easier than the normal rooms too
shy plinth
Yep
They're strongly recommeded to be the first two
Unless you have a specific thing you're looking for or if you're like missing a hammer or a hermes boon or something. But even then, might still be worth it to take the elite doors
thick quiver
btw is there any reason to go beyond 32 heat besides clout chasing, after I get the last skelly statue? Can I get new dialogue and stuff? I've noticed after 150 runs I'm still getting new dialogue and subplots/subplot development
shy plinth
Nothing in-game
Game is still fun to push higher, but in terms of in-game rewards, 32 is the peak
You will still get new dialogue for all sorts of contextual things quite a bit further than 150 runs
Had a buddy who got new hypnos dialogue on run 900
thick quiver
so basically the game is designed to be played for entirety of a person's mortal life lol
shy plinth
I don't know if that was the intention but it certainly feels like the result
Luckily h2 is coming to give us a new perpetual outlet
forest token
btw is there any reason to go beyond 32 heat besides clout chasing, after I get ...
It's more for like personal records and achievement (and going for wr if you have the dedication) rather than clout chasing but same difference I guess lmao
But also game fun
And at a certain point it gets easy so you want to make it more difficult
shy plinth
The clout chasing is also kind of conquered at this point unless you want to run 64 streaks
AngeL1C is so OP
forest token
Also playad lmao
Mysterra
Bai
A lot of big gamers
Clout chasing at this point would be 64 on aether lmfao
Vague memory of the reddit post that said Arthur could beat 64 heat
Was hilarious
shy plinth
64 arthur man.
That would be something
I bet 62 could be done
But those two points of DC
thick quiver
god I'm so tilted about my 32 heat run
I was BREEZING through it
I was like "WOW I jumped from 20 heat to 32 heat and I'm going to win on my FIRST try" and then Hades em4 💀
I feel like I definitely would have won if I put that 4 heat into literally anything but em4
forest token
Tbf you took out 4 (6 if you count cp2 technically since hades benefits the most from it) heat from midrun and shoved it all to the end
So like it happens lmao
thick quiver
I got through the whole game without using a single death defiance, had an absolutely cracked boon setup, had 300+ max hp, 5 death defiances
thick quiver
yeah kinda realizing I had my pact set up perfectly to make em4 hades as hard as absolutely possible, only thing more I could have done was take forced overtime
I really should have taken fo1 at least because fo1 feels totally fine once I readjust my attack and dodge timings (fo2 makes me feel like I'm in some crazy ass bullet hell nightmare, the only thing that saved me on a fo2 run at like 16 heat was doom on my malphon and dash striking nonstop lmao)
forest token
There's a pact guide for 32 heat pinned here
shy plinth
It's all a question of practice and developing game knowledge
thick quiver
Middle management with forced overtime 2 on barge of death is 💀
forest token
Would recommend taking a look at that
forest token
And also a whole ass guide for 32 heat as a whole
thick quiver
Would recommend taking a look at that
will do, ty
shy plinth
Feel free to post your pact and mirror at any point, we're happy to review
thick quiver
I will when I'm at my pc playing again
forest token
Also a lot of builds, but considering you had no issue the whole run except dad fight, you're probably fine on that front
thick quiver
It's all a question of practice and developing game knowledge
yeah, like you said there are people who do 64 heat streaks so I have no excuses, just need to fix my skill issue
forest token
Nah there's only 1 person, maybe 2, who can do that lmao
Afaik mysterra, Bai, angel, and playad are the only ones with multiple 64 clears with and without mods
shy plinth
To be clear 64 is ridiculous and was intended to be impossible
thick quiver
I think I should try some runs with fo2 and hard labor 5 just to practice surviving fights and not getting hit with fo2
forest token
40 was probably the high end realistic goal of the devs for most players lmao
forest token
I think I should try some runs with fo2 and hard labor 5 just to practice surviv...
That combo is for 40 heat lol
shy plinth
I remember when bablo doing 40 streaks was blowing their mind
What a time to be alive
But yeah, 32 is really still about game knowledge, build sculpting, and reasonable execution. It's more forigivng than it seems with proper setup and practice. Still not easy, but no need to make it super hard
Most of the time you want either fo2 or hl5
shy plinth
Yeah lol
People roll in with cp2 and any amount of RI and wonder why the game is so hard
forest token
There was a guy on Reddit who couldn't clear 8 heat on Beowulf bc they took ri4
forest token
Which tbf is totally doable but also like why lmfao
forest token
How could it not be funny
Beo flare bug lmfao
shy plinth
Oh you got me
forest token
I'll try 32 heat on it maybe
24 pacts of heat that aren't ri4 shouldn't be too bad right
thick quiver
Feel free to post your pact and mirror at any point, we're happy to review
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220844982462709904/1382895604123963467/image.png?ex=684cd164&is=684b7fe4&hm=99d003154dba10c683bd9ffe2ebaa1ac1c5a0d6402c6c54df9ac8ad44f0544ee& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220844982462709904/1382895678174527602/image.png?ex=684cd176&is=684b7ff6&hm=248ecc9cef16922ad570d4947996c6f78d3efd0de5fc2f26fbd6fe8194679e76&
this was what I using with Aspect of Nemesis
thick quiver
I used persephone's pom for most of the run then switched to skelly's tooth at styx
thick quiver
What's your average run time
idk, I don't check because I never run tight deadline because I personally really don't enjoy racing against the clock in most games
forest token
Your end screen has run time
Can check admin chamber
Actually probably read through the mirror and esp the pact section of my guide
Everything I wanna say is prob gonna be in there lmao
thick quiver
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220844982462709904/1382896429193887836/image.png?ex=684cd229&is=684b80a9&hm=40d4a4d7fcfd136c862c68102cc11d3fb70ecf3ac7a835827f2ad21f9b580e66& here is the results of my failed 32 heat run
shy plinth
44 minutes wow
I think you would probably be surprised how much easier the runs are when you turn off all the stuff that slows the game down
Things like DC, cp2, js for example
forest token
Oh that's a cursed build lmao
shy plinth
Mirror looks dece, though fam fave is typically better
It's a lot smoother damage scaling and opens up your build options
forest token
If you're not running lc4 then you should take chthonic vitality over dark regen
thick quiver
stuff that slows the game down I often like with stygius because of the chance to get cursed slash, it feels like it almost makes cp, js and dc sidegrades
forest token
Cursed slash also isn't great lmfao
thick quiver
it feels good when I don't have hard labor or lasting consequences
wait does lasting consequences affect healing from guan yu/cursed slash?
thick quiver
huh, here I was thinking cursed slash was peak
shy plinth
Damage output is really more important than survivability
thick quiver
damage output basically is survivability because the faster stuff dies the less time it has to hurt you
forest token
Yeah cursed slash doesn't kill fast
forest token
And js3 cp2 dc2 affects damage output indirectly
The only aspect that have a good damage/survivability balance is like Zeus shield lol
thick quiver
can you explain how lasting consequences isn't objectively terrible though? I can see taking 1-2 but the recommendation of lc4 intuitively to me sounds like hell
forest token
Stubborn defiance is like budget healing
shy plinth
Stubborn defiance+lc4 means you heal every room
forest token
It's in the guide
shy plinth
Yeah
thick quiver
ah, so I should take stubborn defiance with lc4?
forest token
Yeah
shy plinth
It's a much easier 4 heat than em4 and you can faceroll normal rooms
Just have to tighten up boss fights
thick quiver
btw does forced overtime also increase projectile tracking? Because it felt like it did and that felt like one of the worst parts of it
forest token
life hack is to take heightened security to reset sd faster
thick quiver
I lost two dds in one room in tartarus from an armored witch room with fo2 with bp2 buffed witches with even more speed and clones and it was pure hell lmao
forest token
btw does forced overtime also increase projectile tracking? Because it felt like...
Yeah it increases speed of everything
shy plinth
Projectiles might move faster. Fo2 is a big adjustment
The play is to take it and get used to it, which means a few days of dying and then never turning it off again
forest token
By technically 44% and not 40% bc of multiplicative scaling apparently
shy plinth
Fascinating
forest token
I don't remember who said that but I do remember it was from someone trusted in the community
thick quiver
forced overtime 2 seems to make agony insanely overpowered lol
the whole game becomes dash strike agony for me
forest token
You get used to it
The same way you learned the timings when you first started the game
You just learn to react and move faster
When you first turn it on it's a bit overwhelming but once you get used to it, it's never an issue
shy plinth
It also makes rooms faster
thick quiver
You just learn to react and move faster
yeah but even if I'm doing things perfectly it seems like I'll have significantly less damage output from all the time I spend dodging I would have otherwise spent attacking, no?
also forced overtime 2 flamewheels just sound absolutely terrifying
shy plinth
Kill them and you don't have to dodge
Buildcrafting is a big part of this, dialing in damage output helps a lot
Would recommend family favorite over priv status for sure, more reliable and more damage overall
It starts scaling right away in tart
thick quiver
also how is chthonic vitality better than dark regeneration? it seems like I just end up getting significantly more healing from dark regeneration with troves and sisyphus and boss rewards etc
shy plinth
Healing before bosses better than healing after, though also lc4 means it doesn't matter
thick quiver
banana's preference for gods' pride also seems odd because of how it seems like in a lot of runs my luck on getting legendary/duo boons makes or breaks my runs