h1-high-heat-strategies

[shy plinth]

https://twitter.com/RidiculousHat/status/1371359163113213953?t=RrLB_fpMHFB7RY4HExY6Sw&s=19

Ridiculous Hat (@RidiculousHat)

i forget what it's like to take damage

Twitter · Mar 15, 2021, 7:14 AM

What a goofy run

[forest token]

that's a lot of hp lmao

[shy plinth]

There's a lot going on here lolol

[forest token]

you got hit like 3 times by the looks of it lmao

athena call smair swind is so based lmao

[shy plinth]

Yeah that would've been a clean fight

AND 15% dodge chance

[forest token]

oh yeah that too

[shy plinth]

I probs just facerolled

[forest token]

i would've done the same lmao

would've gotten worried if i lost SD + got hit once

but big chilling lmao

[shy plinth]

That sounds familiar

Though also SD here heals 100

[forest token]

yeah but isn't a single hit like about 40 damage

[shy plinth]

A sweep, yeah

[forest token]

that's still 2 hits from death at that point and even with a ton of dodge, could just get bad dodge rng

[shy plinth]

If I got hit with a skull then I'd be clench mode

[forest token]

that too lmao

[hexed sapphire]

second delivery when

[forest token]

second delivery is delayed damage like doom where it hits for as much as you hit them for

[severe wedge]

Zag fist is great for 32 heat

[severe wedge]

this build has brilliant riposte, imagine u got the athena legendary and had lambent plume on

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't call them great for 32, but 32 is still pretty chill.

[idle hound]

Would be kinda neat if there was like a badge or something over each weapon aspect you manage to beat 32 heat with

I'm a sucker for little icons

[quartz mantle]

Each weapon shows your best heat clear with it when you inspect it in the courtyard

[idle hound]

Per aspect

?

[hoary pasture]

No, just the weapon as a whole

[quartz mantle]

You can see that in the records room

[severe wedge]

they are great, ME, lambent plume, etc kill 32 heat, it's only when you get to 45+ that they start to fall off

[mossy zinc]

You can't seriously say Malphon is great at 32 compared to like... every other weapon.

[severe wedge]

yeah for sure

it is great

but 32 isnt high heat tbf anything goes pretty much

[mossy zinc]

It's the starting point of high heat.

[severe wedge]

high heat is like 50+

isnt it

[shy plinth]

It's 32+

That's where the sheet starts and it's the original stretch goal in the game that doesn't reward an achievement

Channel was originally made to keep builds and combat from being a combination of new player advice and high heat grinders sharing intimidating strats

Getting a first time 32 and doing 32x6 and 32x24 are common things people ask about that are well beyond builds and combat, so that's where we come in 🙂

[mossy zinc]

Basically we ran into a lot of pointless discussions that were like "I think Cursed Slash is good!" "Sorry, but we're talking about 40+ Heat, it sucks for that." "But it's good!"

Well, I've noticed the newer gens of high heat players tend to do the same thing again and often discuss high heat in the other channels.

[severe wedge]

32 is literally halfway to the highest heat theres no way u can say that's high

[forest token]

on the other hand, if someone comes in here asking for 32 heat help, it would probably not look great if you say "32 isn't that high, go to #h1-builds-and-combat, this is for 40+ heat" lmao

also 32 is pretty high for casual players who just want to do it for the statue

[haughty sky]

50 isn’t even 80% of the highest heat it’s not that bad

[hexed sapphire]

Technically 50 heat isnt even half the difficulty of 64 heat

[shy plinth]

32 is extremely difficult and 90%+ of the player base has not cleared it

It's high heat by any definition, the system wasn't really designed to be realistic at 50+, the game just really is that good

And players have shattered every expectation the devs have had at every step

[mossy zinc]

Not by maximusdecimusmeridius's definition, apparently.

High is subjective anyway. Leaderboard starts at 32 though.

[severe wedge]

i thought it was like universally agreed that high heat is 50+, that's why it's so annoying that i cant do it lol

like i just did 40 with gilgamesh and completely cheesed it w the lambent plume, i cheesed 40 w lambent plume on zag sword and zag fists too, i feel like if u can cheese a heat level then it's not really "high heat" yet, bc u cant rlly cheese 50+ in any wah

[forest token]

I mean if anything that's just a testament to your skill and knowledge lol

[hoary pasture]

You can play Beowulf

Same thing

[forest token]

Lmao

[mossy zinc]

Nope.

Tbh I think "cheese" is just a stupid derogatory word for effective strategies.

Also, vast majority of players probably wouldn't make it out of Tartarus if you gave them Gilgamesh and Lambent Plume to start the run with.

Probably time out and almost no Lambent Plume procs.

[severe wedge]

i took js0 cp0 hs0 lol

lambent plume is amazing with the fists so long as u domt have cp1 or js2+

even js2 cp0 u can manage sometimes

it works amazing w zag fist bc it already has dodge chance

if u get ddash it's goates

[mossy zinc]

I can do JS3 CP2 DC2 on Malphon and do fine on time. Most players aren't gonna be able to do that anyway.

[mossy zinc]

It's a reasonable strategy, but it comes at the cost of your build being somewhat random.

[severe wedge]

yeah but how many plume procs are u gonna get tho, that's the issue

if u have less than 15% by the end of asphodel it's not as amazing unless ur going zag fists + ruthless

[mossy zinc]

I think you missed my point.

[hoary pasture]

It’s never amazing if the build doesn’t cooperate

[severe wedge]

on js0 it's great bc pretty much anything works or can be built off of for the fists and if you get any athena whatsoever it can be godly (no pun intended)

[mossy zinc]

It's fine with JS3, too.

[shy plinth]

Anything works with a base level of execution, and I don't know if you're aware how hard that base level is to achieve

The level of control you're able to consistently demonstrate is atypical

[severe wedge]

im talking about plume

it's ok with js3 but pretty rough, ur gonna run out st least a few times surely right

[severe wedge]

i dont think ive done anything above like 20 heat on beo tbh, far more comfortable with the fists

[mossy zinc]

I know you're talking about Lambent Plume lol.

[severe wedge]

damn ur built diff if u take js3 on the plume at 40+ heat fs

yall 50 heat mfs are a different breed

[mossy zinc]

lol I used to take JS3 CP2 DC2 all the time on Malphon for practice.

You can start with a god keepsake and swap to Lambent Plume in Asphodel btw.

A bit less dodge chance, but your DPS will be more consistent.

[idle hound]

You pick that.... For practice???

Are you human?

Like, i thought this was high heat forum as in 32 heat and that's just lukewarm for you

Rock Lee moment, really

[shy plinth]

A bunch of players in here have been playing for a looooong time

Nyaanyaa has 100k messages in this server lol

She been around

[idle hound]

It shows lol

[honest kernel]

Any must have boons for 32 heat eith plume and fists?

Trying to get all aspects on 32, and this sounds like a fun one to do 🙂

[hoary pasture]

Well you dont control the boons

You need some kind of flat damage on your attack

and any other good supporting boons that you come across like Divine Dash etc

[honest kernel]

With flat you mean not percentage, but something like dio?

[shy plinth]

A fixed number

Percentage increases on fists gives you not very much

Lightning is very nice if you can get it

[rapid hawk]

yeah dio or zeus is good

[honest kernel]

Alright,. thank you 🙂

[rapid hawk]

something that happens every hit instead of just dmg/status effect

[honest kernel]

And should I go for attack instead of dash strike, as I only have one dash?

Sorry for asking basic questions. My spare time is limitted, so I want to do it right quickly 😉

[hoary pasture]

Ares also good for damage

[hoary pasture]

Why do you have one dash, you should use two

[idle hound]

Ares on fist i would avoid

[hoary pasture]

And on almost every weapon and build dash-striking is the better option

[idle hound]

The bonus id delayed and doesn't pay off for every strike

[hoary pasture]

Ares is very good on Fists attack

The delayed damage is a perk that allows you to tag enemies

Besides, the pom scaling is good and you’re open to other good stuff like if you come across Athena and more Ares

[idle hound]

True

But

You don't empower the combo

I dunno

[severe wedge]

u cant control boons really but divine dash makes the build like 100x better, ur build can be really good without it too

[idle hound]

Merciful end is desirable though

[hoary pasture]

What

[severe wedge]

ruthless is good for plume fists when js is low, if u get greatest reflex it's insane

if u dont have ddash tho it can get really dangerous

[idle hound]

I mean that for example with thunder you empower every hit.
With doom, your hits remain the same plus an extra when the sword falls

[severe wedge]

dps wise it kinda evens out

[idle hound]

That's good

[severe wedge]

u would think zap fists or drunk fists do way more damage but in actuality if u pom up or get a good rarity ares attack the doom damage makes up for the less powerful individual strikes

[hoary pasture]

Just more gambling on the build

Well it works, it’s not the greatest of strats but it’s a fun one

[idle hound]

Fun matters

[honest kernel]

I thought the strategy required the use of ruthless reflex instead of greater reflex

[severe wedge]

im not necessarily recommending it lol but with 2 hermes + rolls u have a fairly decent chance of greatest reflex, and really anything like greater evasion, second wind, or hyper sprint helps a lot

[severe wedge]

it doesnt "require" it, it just can be a lot of fun if u know how to use the fists and can activate ruthless with only 1 dash fairly consistently, greater reflex is still the default for every weapon and build besides gilgamesh

[hoary pasture]

It’s definitely better if things go right

[mossy zinc]

Lol that was a couple years ago during early access.

It's also how I evaluated my build ideas for high heat.

[idle hound]

Well now that you mention it

Yeah, I use that too when i want my runs to last longer

My bewilderment was you picking that ON TOP of td3

[mossy zinc]

Gotta get those WRs somehow.

[hexed sapphire]

it's just "get a good build lol"

to do that with td3

[mossy zinc]

Well, back then the only Malphon mains in high heat were me and Resqtoaster, so it's not like I could ask anybody what's a good build lol.

And spawn manipulation wasn't anywhere near as figured out yet.

TD only went up to TD2, but the time didn't carry over between biomes.

Timing out in Elysium was a common problem.

Didn't even have Meg setups for everything yet.

[idle hound]

That's wild

And to think we get to live another cycle

[mossy zinc]

It's gonna be very different for Hades 2. The skill level is so much higher now, playerbase so much larger, theory so much more developed. And that's gonna carry over into early access.

[idle hound]

The university of heat

[pastel tulip]

@mossy zinc since you're an expert on Malphon and have used DC2 in the past, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on using that over one rank of BP or perhaps even UC?

To me, it seems like the attack speed can break the blue easily, especially if paired with Hangover or Lightning, and I know I have no idea how to handle some of the armored perks on certain enemies. Then again, I'm having trouble with a practice run of 20 Heat (HL1, LC4, FO2, EM3, MM1, TD1, ... uh ... Im probably forgetting something tbh), so my observations are still that of a novice.

[mossy zinc]

EM3 FO2 can be pretty brutal on Malphon. Wouldn't recommend that combination unless you're practicing for 40+ or something.

Malphon is constantly in melee range and DC2 means your initial hits don't stun.

I'd take BP or UC over that. At 32+, you normally take both of them anyway.

[pastel tulip]

Hmm alright; in that case any advice for learning BP?

[shy plinth]

Play it a bunch 🙂

There's a heat progression chart pinned here that can help you figure out how to scale up heat over time

Not really a better solution than practice

For what it's worth, UC is going to be a relatively straightforward 2 heat - you just have to save a reroll for fountains and make sure you have a boon in mind to sell

[pastel tulip]

Hehe fair; thanks

[mossy zinc]

At 32, just get a strong build that can kill them so fast it doesn't matter if they're BP2 elites or regular elites.

That's the easiest way to deal with them lol.

Beyond that... for Cloners in Tartarus, find the real ones asap and ignore the clones as best as you can. Cloner rooms can be very short because Cloners have a 5x difficulty multiplier, so you only get 1/5th of the real enemies you'd normally get. So if you take them out fast, it can be over very quickly.

But if you focus on wiping out the clones first, you'll just get more and more clones and get into a really bad spot. The first wave is the worst because the clones spawn as soon as you enter.

But follow-up waves are really fast because the real one spawns first, and you can easily kill it before it spawns any clones or maybe 1-2 that just disappear when you kill the real one anyway.

I think Cloners are usually a big problem in Tartarus when you just start getting into high heat.

But anything beyond that is like... it just depends so much on enemy types, BP2 combos, room layout, weapon aspect. But still, the best way to deal with them up to and including like 32 Heat is to just learn very powerful builds and get down the mechanics of your weapon aspect, like optimal DPS rotations and stuff.

And that's relatively easy to learn.

If you can get a sub 15 with your aspect, you have a good chance of beating 32 in a couple of tries. If you can get a sub 12 on a 2-sack consistently, you can probably streak 32.

If that makes sense.

[idle hound]

Enlightening

[jaunty falcon]

What if I can streak sub 4

[weak oasis]

first elysium room - armored greatshields and archers
bad omen

[mossy zinc]

Probably not.

Sub 4 is pretty low Heat.

[jaunty falcon]

62

[mossy zinc]

If you need over 62 minutes for a run, I don't think you can beat TD3.

[jaunty falcon]

I can streak 4 heat in 62 mins 😎😤

[mossy zinc]

Oh wow.

If you add that up, that's 66. That's better than the high heat WR.

[weak oasis]

oh so middle management applies for EM4 summons...

well no wonder he chewed through all 3 of my DDs from full health

[shy plinth]

EM4 is no joke

[weak oasis]

it's not that bad
without hard labor and mm

[mossy zinc]

No.

They're always like that. It's not because of MM.

They're basically superelite versions of minibosses.

[hoary pasture]

Yea bballs and gorgons teleport regardless

but crushers dont do their shockwave thing

[weak oasis]

First time was easier
But then with my aspect of chiron I had deadly flourish
and clean kill and hide breaker and relentless+concentrated volley

mb i should try eris
since it's kinda op

[shy plinth]

EM4 is pretty challenging all around but you can basically never go wrong with eris

Though most 32s don't and shouldn't take em4

[weak oasis]

but it's like 4 heat

and i don't know how people get out of tartarus under 7 minutes unless they get really lucky or have good clear build early
because sometimes it just never ends

[pastel tulip]

It does; I guess Im just trying to readjust which Punishments I choose. I've done 16 Heat with Malphon, but I know I didnt go LC either.

[hoary pasture]

You have to practice and be as efficient as possible when clearing rooms. It has nothing to do with luck, ideally you'll leave Tartarus in worst case scenarios around 4 minutes and you'll leave Asphodel at around 8 minutes in order to stay within TD3 requirements

[mossy zinc]

Learn the speedrun builds for your aspect and your optimal rotation and practice.

Good starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxwSsTPubI

[quartz mantle]

It helps to watch people play and see how efficiently they clear rooms

[shy plinth]

The most common thing we help with in this channel is people pushing heat, having trouble hitting timer, and having a pact with a ton of slowdown options selected

People can't td2 but also have cf2 js3 Cp1 or something

When you turn those off, it's much much easier to go fast

If you say "never ends" I would bet you're doing js3

It's a surprisingly punishing heat option

If you post your pact and mirror, I'd bet we can provide some guidance 🙂

[forest token]

there's a lot of other options that can give you 4 heat and won't screw your run in the final stretch lmao

[quartz mantle]

If you’re doing 32 heat that’s the equivalent of just running TD3, FO2, or HL5

[hexed sapphire]

I'm pretty sure the 5x difficulty multiplier doesn't work properly

[mossy zinc]

That's the first time I've heard that.

[hoary pasture]

Yup it’s bugged

[mossy zinc]

Well, tactics for dealing with them remain the same.

[hoary pasture]

I think it was initially discovered when Pseudo was doing the Eris route and it just didn’t do anything, like technically things like a c12 1 lout would be possible except it was not. It was mentioned again a few days ago in someone’s stream so more people know about it now.

[mossy zinc]

Ah. Explains why I hadn't heard of it; I never pay much attention to routed runs.

What if it's only bugged on Eris?

[forest token]

Beo also has a route doesn't it

[hoary pasture]

Beowulf route doesn’t use bp

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't be surprised if the other BP difficulty modifiers also do nothing then.

[hoary pasture]

I think Saviors and Cloners are meant to grant more difficulty points

Now we know cloners don’t

Idk about saviors

[mossy zinc]

Speeder, Cloner, and Bruiser.

[hoary pasture]

Okay so Cloners are meant to be x5 and Saviors are meant to be x1.2. Both don’t work

[mossy zinc]

Was it Savior instead of Bruiser? I forgot tbh. Well, we don't know if they're meant to increase the difficulty rating or not. The assumption that they did was just based on the fact that I found it in, I think, the enemy data script. Could also be remains from an idea that was scrapped.

Just looked through some old messages and apparently I always think Speeder is one and then remember that it's not.

I normally double-check when talking about it because I always mess it up, but on mobile right now.

Apparently the correct answer is none of them do anything anyway.

So I wasn't more or less wrong whenever I misrembered.

[hoary pasture]

Hades

[mossy zinc]

I hope Hades II will have more sensible difficulty ratings for enemies.

[hoary pasture]

I dont think it would make a noticeable difference most of the time tbh

[mossy zinc]

No more neverending waves of unarmored Brightswords.

[mossy zinc]

Wdym?

It was so noticeable that we didn't notice it wasn't working.

[pastel tulip]

Just finished a test run with LC 4, UC, and TD 1 (trying to get used to those three since they change how the game is played; working my way up to TD 3 while incorporating other heats) ... I have no idea why I brought that up because I actually wanted to talk about BP difficulty scaling or lack thereof, and 7 heat isn't high at all ...

... anyhow, seeing that doesn't work and probably hasn't this entire time ... it probably means that if it was working as intended then BP2 would no doubt be the best way to get high heat due to shortened encounters

[shy plinth]

It's still a very good way to get high heat

[hoary pasture]

Yea but cloner rooms are a joke anyway

most of them

[mossy zinc]

You'd take BP2 at 32+ regardless.

If you want a simple practice pact to get into high heat, do EM2 FO2 TD3 and just never take those off.

[haughty sky]

individual bp perks are never too bad

but ex. speeder cloner is awful and making those rooms a bit easier helps

i would guess a huge chunk of my heat deaths are to bad bp rooms

[pastel tulip]

I might try to work in EM2 and build up towards TD3; I'm just mentioning LC4, UC, and TD1 since they either add new gameplay elements (timer, required purging) or negate already existing ones (healing) rather than alter ones that are already in the game (pretty much everything else other than maybe mirror inspection or personal liability in hell mode).

[shy plinth]

Probably needs mm and BP to be complete by that definition

[hexed sapphire]

cloner seeker/speeder witches 💀

[mossy zinc]

@upper juniper how is 40 Heat going?

[upper juniper]

Not

I took a break for monthly challenge

[mossy zinc]

I saw, yeah. Congratulations on those! Figured you might have gotten back into 40 Heat already after finishing the extra challenge.

[upper juniper]

I haven’t played since lol

I haven’t been getting that many games in

[mossy zinc]

I would recommend starting with TD2 or TD3 rather than TD1. It forces you to pick up the pace more. You might time out sometimes, but you'll get more immediate feedback on your pace and whether you were wasting too much time playing too defensive. TD1 is just way too lenient to give you any good feedback.

LC4 and UC add new elements, but the thing is... UC is just a matter of strategy that you don't actually need to practice for in a run. LC4 is just a matter of getting better in general and, again, using strategy with SD from the mirror and looking for DDs from Lady Athena. You don't need to specifically practice with those two pacts on to get better at dealing with them.

EM2 and FO2 change the fights in a way that you really need to practice against a lot. Mind you, you won't need FO2 until 40+, but if you do want to get there, practicing with FO2 now and not taking it off will help you a lot to get there faster. And even if your upper limit is just 32 Heat and stopping there, practicing with FO2 now will help you a lot with 32 Heat even if you take FO0 there.

[nocturne stag]

I turned on FO2 quite early, got good at it and never took it off. Game feels weird at normal speed now

Which is to say: I advise turning it on

[pastel tulip]

That's fair; I'm already starting to get sub 20 minutes runs with TD1, LC4, BP1, and UC, so going for TD2 or even TD3 wont be that hard to get adjusted to I think (hardest hurdle is Elysium, with Styx RNG being kind of a factor depending on sack luck).

Anyhow, I actually don't get why EM2 is difficult for melee weapons; like everything is a lot more crowded and you'll take more damage if not careful, but also it's easier for melee to deal more damage because everything is closer. ... might actually try Than/Mort to end the fight in the final phase though; been using that to get through Dire Gorgon, Asterius, and Theseus more quickly since the latter two just stand still before starting their final phase so the startup can be timed to hit them as soon as they are vulnerable again, and Dire Gorgon even without MM is a pain for me if I don't have an Athena boon (gorgons in general are pain because I really a bit on punching projectiles, and not only are the stone bullets indestructible by basic attacks, they also petrify which means others can pile up damage).

Er ... random tangent aside ... FO2 might be something Inget used to as well; I think I want to try learning the patterns at normal speed first though before raising that up

[mossy zinc]

If you can get sub 20, you can just turn on TD3, yeah.

TD3 is sub 20.

Can even go a bit over it since you won't die immediately, you'll just take 5 damage per second.

Anyhow, I actually don't get why EM2 is difficult for melee weapons
It's not really. It's EM3 and EM4 that are difficult for melee.

[pastel tulip]

Hehe yeah: learned that my first TD3 attempt; was actually pretty nice to learn, along with Stubborn Roots and certain weapon heals working still in LC4

[mossy zinc]

Meg summon would be best, especially if you learn the setups for it for the minibosses.

What you do with Meg vs Theseus & Asterius is you just tap up on your d-pad or keyboard right at the start of the fight and summon her. She'll hit them 100% of the time.

Than is too slow to him reliably there.

[pastel tulip]

Ah; you're talking about using it at the very beginning. The way I use Than is to wait until the boss is in their invulnerable state before the next phase then use it while they're standing still to end that phase quicker.

I mainly use it against Asterius, Theseus, and Hades at the beginning of the second fight, but it also works on the furies (especially Tisiphone since her transitions basically clear the field). That said ... Meg is probably better for most minibosses simply because they don't have that same invulnerable transition state.

[wild ocean]

honestly imo em3 isn't even that hard for shield, just the other 3 melees

[mossy zinc]

Shield isn't melee, it's its own class.

[pastel tulip]

Any recommendations for getting to 32 Heat with Fists-Demeter?

So far I have EM2 (3), LC4 (4), FO2 (6), MM (2), BP2 (5), UC (2), HS (1), and TD3 (6) for 29 Heat and I feel pretty comfortable with that (Heightened Security seems to actually help prior to Styx for proccing Stubborn Defiance to "heal" after an encounter but before leaving the chamber, especially in Asphodel since every chamber has magma next to the exits).

My problems start to arise after that: HL1 alone makes certain FO2 extremely lethal and I wind up wiping at Hydra whereas Hades is usually my only roadblock; EM3 is a hard no as Gold-Theseus does not sit still long enough with my current boss strat; CP1 is more manageable than HL1 but it does slow me down a bit ...

[shy plinth]

Cf2 dc1?

I would do em3 personally but up to you

Also at a certain point you'll end up having to work on not getting hit

I would bet hl1 would be fine on lernie if you didn't have hs

[mossy zinc]

CP1 is a terrible idea.

[shy plinth]

20% more damage isn't nothing but is rarely a deal-breaker I think

Yeah cp is a deal breaker

[pastel tulip]

Hmm ... convenience fee might be workable--Ive gotten into the habit of buying mass amounts of Touch of Styx when I can in Styx since they stack and the duration is long enough to go through two to three chambers before fighting Hades. Just need to work around that though by saving early.

[shy plinth]

I know there is plenty of advice in here about not using em3 on melee but I just haven't turned it off for like... multiple years

And I play a lot of melee

I don't know if it's as impactful as the other options discussed

Cf0 really nice

[mossy zinc]

EM3 FO2 requires a lot of practice for melee and definitely Divine Dash if you don't have the practice without it.

[shy plinth]

Sure, I just don't know if 32 pacts can avoid the need for practice

[mossy zinc]

Just that slam from EM Asterius alone will murder you if you don't deflect it.

[shy plinth]

But what if we dodged it

Don't get me wrong, asterius is def the hardest part of all of this

[mossy zinc]

I'd suggest you swap out FO2 for HL5 CF2 EM3 tbh. That'll be 32 Heat.

Slow-motion EM3 will be a lot more chill.

Lightning Strike start and look for Static Discharge and Divine Dash. Curse of Agony start and hoping for Merciful End can work, too.

If you want to go with EM3 FO2 as the other somewhat reasonable option, though, go for Merciful End.

CF0 will make it easier to get that.

[pastel tulip]

I think EM3 might be a learning curve for me as Im using Than and it speeds up a lot of the latter boss encounters (Asterius, Theseus, and Hades in particular) because I can force them to their last phase then time Than to him them when they become vulnerable again before they can dodge. I can also sometimes use it against the Furies, but it's harder there as it sometimes auto targets a Wretch and misses her completely. EM3 would be more manageable with Meg if it would end the Gold phase quicker.

As for dodging yeah ... that's something I actuvely need to get better at, especially for Hades since I wait too late to dodge the sweeps or blood a lot of tbe time.

[shy plinth]

I've always been curious about the keepsake for ares

I usually go for Athena just because I need more boons from her

[mossy zinc]

Honestly, just use Meg summon.

[shy plinth]

And want more chances at dash and special

Def Meg

[mossy zinc]

I mean, if you want to insist on Than, you can make him work; but Meg better.

[shy plinth]

If you press up when you enter the fight and immediately summon it hits both

[warm dagger]

I always take Athena in Tart and Ares in Aspho when hunting ME.

[shy plinth]

Than is real sketch

Also Meg is a one button press to end hydra phase 3

[mossy zinc]

Yikes. You'd want to do that the other way around.

[warm dagger]

You can get the special and the dash before barge or witches in Aspho which helps a lot.

[shy plinth]

I always take Athena first

[mossy zinc]

Want damage on your Attack asap and get poms on it.

[shy plinth]

I know this has been discussed before

Damage is nice but getting both dash and special p clutch too

The pom thing is a good point

[warm dagger]

I should caveat with I main GY so special is important.

Pom is very good point.

[mossy zinc]

Guan Yu is different, yeah. Although I'd def start Heartbreak Flourish on that for high heat.

But Owl Pendant start is decent.

[pastel tulip]

Huh ... what are the boss base HP values? I mean Than has been pretty reliable for me, but he may be overkill when Meg can do the same thing more easily.

Dead is dead after all

[shy plinth]

Than is slow

Meg presses a button and kills things

[warm dagger]

Battie or Ant are my go-tos

[mossy zinc]

Minibosses are all way faster with Meg.

[severe wedge]

u wanna guarantee ares first w/ a chance of natural athena in tart, bc although u only need athena special to open ME u realistically also want ddash

[mossy zinc]

And you're not gonna be reliably phasing both Asterius and Theseus at the same time in high heat with EM3.

[severe wedge]

which is a lot of athena boons, so u dont wanna waste her keepsake in tart if u could potentially already get some athena offered anyway

[shy plinth]

Wouldn't this be the logic used to go Athena?

[mossy zinc]

Most of the time you kill Asterius before you phase Theseus.

[severe wedge]

no bc ares is often the primary damage source for ME builds before u get ME so u need the damage first too

[shy plinth]

Sure, I follow that

[warm dagger]

I take Athena first because I value defense when taking LC on GY.

[shy plinth]

But that's really the only reason to go ares - because if we want a higher chance of seeing two Athena boons we should put her in the pool

[mossy zinc]

Lady Athena first is more reliable Merciful End, yeah.

[shy plinth]

It is probably the right reason to go ares

But if you can get away with Athena first it makes it much more likely to have functioning build faster

[severe wedge]

Oh for GY it's different

[shy plinth]

Just not clear if dem can get away with it

[severe wedge]

I thought u were using the fists or shield or sword or smth

[shy plinth]

The secret to early damage with Athena keepsake is ez tho

[mossy zinc]

It can. You can just start Divine Dash and pick up any decent Attack tbh.

[shy plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/white-claw-the-claw-toy-story-clawwww-gif-14432446

Gilga has excellent base damage

[mossy zinc]

Can start Divine Strike, too, if it's epic, and go for Deadly Reversal build lol.

[warm dagger]

Athena first has given me more Tart MEs than not.

[mossy zinc]

aka Mewmew Special

[warm dagger]

That's a cherry on top, not a standard.

[mossy zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/blue-archive-mashiro-shizuyama-mashiro-brain-freeze-ice-cream-gif-25463985

[severe wedge]

the point is that if u start w ares u have a chance of naturally getting athena in the pool - w/o ri1 u see a ton of boons (if we're counting shops) in tart. whereas in aspho there's very few boons and often u get hermes before any normal ones so u wanna guarantee an athena

[shy plinth]

But if you start with Athena you have a natural chance of seeing ares

And you only need one ares boon so fewer rooms in aspho is fine

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, that didn't make sense lol.

[shy plinth]

Like I said, I follow the pom point, but the logic you're using here for the other point heavily favors Athena first

Aspho will give you a guaranteed ares boon quickly and empty attack will take priority, you have a ton of boons in tart so lots of chances to see special and dash

It is the precise reason why I do Athena first

But, if you want and need the damage and poms on doom, ares makes sense

[severe wedge]

this is just from my experience, i use ME a lot since my best weapon's the fists. for some reason i more often find that when i start w athena's keepsake, i less frequently get her offered multiple times and get what i want, and not having as much damage hurts all the while

[shy plinth]

The damage point is the important part

Having a god in your pool is strictly better than not if you want multiple boons

And while she gets offered less than you want, that's offset by being offered in chambers 1-3

I've played a looooooot of merciful end fists (mostly gilga because that's who I am) and Athena tart is the way to get ME faster, but not the way to get ME better

[mossy zinc]

I've played a lot of any builds.

[shy plinth]

You have yes

[severe wedge]

maybe it's just recently with ap1/ap2 clouding my judgement but usually i like to save the owl pendant as long as i can bc if the game forces me to fill my god pool in tart after ive hsed it then i see much less athena down the line

[shy plinth]

I don't understand

If the game fills your god pool doesn't that mean you see more athena?

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, it does.

[shy plinth]

Nyaanyaa you would know this

[mossy zinc]

You also can't see a trial with Lady Athena until she's in the pool, so starting with her helps with that, too.

[shy plinth]

Is it equal chance for all gods until pool is filled or is it a 25% chance for each "slot" and the empty slots can be whatever

[mossy zinc]

Randomly picks from all 8 until you have 4+.

So yeah, equal chance for all 8.

[shy plinth]

Okay, so it doesn't say like "this next boon room is an in-pool god" or "this next one isn't"

That's what I figured

[pastel tulip]

On the God pool stuff, anyone know how to get 5+Hermes without RNG? I know Ive been lucky enough to get that many before; I just dont know what I did to do so.

[haughty sky]

can only get 2 hermes and a third from styx shop

[mossy zinc]

Just add a fifth to the pool with a keepsake once you have four.

[haughty sky]

oh i misread lol

can get 5 naturally by having 3 in your pool, buying a fourth from midshop and getting a fifth the chamber after

[mossy zinc]

Can get up to 8 naturally if you make it to Styx shop with a 3-god pool.

Although my PB is 7 gods naturally.

But in theory, it's possible to get 8 naturally.

[pastel tulip]

nods I dont know how viable it is (Vengeful Mood might enjoy having all the revenge abilities I guess), but still seems fun

[spice tulip]

Does anyone know where to find up-to-date information on the highest heat achieved?

The speedrun.com site seems to only have runs from early access.

For the highest heat aspect.

[forest token]

There's a spreadsheet pinned here

Idk how up to date it is

But it still has some good ones

Should be relatively up to date tho

[shy plinth]

I would check both the pinned high heat leaderboard and the modded one

Oh they're both pinned

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-eAhomftrsnM8BV6TMA4CA58wneoBLcAvlQXiYrGAnU/edit#gid=1775740672

[gaunt fiber]

especially on the dash strike

[pseudo kernel]

kills all the numbskulls

[idle hound]

Sometimes in runs with family favourite, if i reach asphodel with enough boons and don't really chase a particular one, i pick a keepsake for an Extra god in the pool to get +5% damage

Is that unwise?

[hoary pasture]

Chances are you'll come across one naturally and there are better keepsakes to use instead

[idle hound]

No, i mean for a sixth god

[hoary pasture]

5% is not worth it, you also just give yourself too many gods, lowering the odds of seeing the gods you actually want

[idle hound]

And of purse was already keepsake 1?

[jaunty falcon]

The extra 5% isn’t worth the reduced build control

[shy plinth]

Runs with family favorite should probably just be called "runs"

And the meta strat of God keepsake - God keepsake - tooth or acorn - acorn is pretty hard to beat

Third biome has flexibility with hourglass or purse or whatever

[idle hound]

Yeah i usually do that

[shy plinth]

But usually it's just a survivability keepsake

[idle hound]

Lately i was taking purse and let luck decide my build to adapt

Ok, thanks everyone

[shy plinth]

That does sound fun

Def wouldn't take a fifth God, but if you wanna do a purse run for the sake of it, that's a good way to keep things interesting and test your skills

I might try one of those later

[idle hound]

Yep, has some risk though, like getting a bad setup

[hoary pasture]

If you want to make it even more interesting do AP2 Retrash style

[idle hound]

But i see purse also as an offset for first underworld Customs

[shy plinth]

"interesting"

[idle hound]

Masochism

[shy plinth]

I mean uc doesn't really need an offset

[hoary pasture]

I dont see how purse helps with that tbh

[shy plinth]

Just keep in mind what you plan to sell

[hoary pasture]

How much heat are you doing

[shy plinth]

It's an extra boon theoretically

On 32 with cf0

I at least follow the logic

[hoary pasture]

You usually leave Tart with like 4 boons surely you can sell one

[shy plinth]

Yes

[mossy zinc]

There can be times when you force a 5th god, but it's never for Family Favorite.

[mossy zinc]

CF0 UC can be virtually free.

[shy plinth]

Yes

[mossy zinc]

Sell epic for 150ish, buy boon for 150.

Sell duo for 400+, buy 2 boons and a pom.

Also...

Coin Purse gets you 150 obols. Pom Blossom start gets you 3 levels in Tartarus. Depending on whether you look at it as pom slices or poms, that's 150~300 obols in value—and with CF2 it's 270~540 in value.

[idle hound]

Underworld economics

[supple quail]

It would be wise to not be hit

[mossy zinc]

Not always.

[idle hound]

Finally Sigma Unseen

I'll grind the final rank while attempting the 32heat in all aspects

Let's see what comes first

[idle hound]

Aaaand i clowned the first attempt

[idle hound]

Stubborn Roots would be tier S if it cancelled Tight Deadline damage

Yes i ran out of time

[forest token]

Even without TD stubborn roots still isn't good lol

[idle hound]

Yeah...

[severe wedge]

FINALLY BEAT 50 HEAT

gpddamn tgat took so long mf

[forest token]

Gamer

Where's the screenshot

[severe wedge]

it's comin

[shy plinth]

Well done

[severe wedge]

im on mobile so i gotta email it to myself lmao

[forest token]

Lmfao

[severe wedge]

#h1-victory-boasting message

i got really close a few times with some decent fists builds but they just werent consistent enough and didnt have the upper level of power that i needed

[severe wedge]

that's what i did, i couodnt take the screenshot on my phone

[hexed sapphire]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/1066918368122249236/2023-01-17_15-08-02_-_Trim_-_Trim.mp4

high heat strategy: just dont get speeder wavemakers

[forest token]

sounds easy enough

[idle hound]

Recommended cast for Poseidon?

Im currently trying blades/beam to get heat from DC

But, yeah, not good casts to start runs with

[left prism]

Crush shot or phalanx

Dont take dc

[idle hound]

Noted, thanks

Note to self: the only reason you thought your run was going smoothly is because you cheated yourself into putting heat on EM4 with TD3. Of course you clowned yourself. Also you lost 4 DDs on Asterius my darling, don't blame luck, don't blame time, blame your anxious space bar pressing.

[shy plinth]

Are we doing 32 with dds?

[idle hound]

I am

Not dying twice against boss 3 and 4 is something i haven't practiced in high heat

Something tells me practicing LC4 and SD will make life easier on me though

[severe wedge]

I really don't recommend LC4 if you're just doing 32 heat, but different strokes ig

[idle hound]

Yesterday i got questioned the opposite haha

Yeah i feel the same

I'll mess around with other pact clauses

[severe wedge]

You can use it if you want, I just feel like 32 heat is so low that it's unnecessary

[idle hound]

I mean when combined with sd it's not hard

Just don't die twice in a room

But then there's em3

And i lose 4 defiances

[clever otter]

I did LC4 SD at 20 heat

[hexed sapphire]

I feel like bossing is practicable while std combats are a lot more of a wildcard in that sense

[mossy zinc]

Other pacts will cut into your time a lot or make the fights a lot harder or hurt your build a lot.

At 32, you can very reliably get 1-2 DDs from Lady Athena.

Go-to recommendation is HL5 FO0 and just run circles around the enemies and bosses. Acorn and extra DDs for when you make a mistake here and there.

HL2 FO1 and HL0 FO2 are reasonable alternatives.

[idle hound]

I can handle fo1

Time to get accustomed to HalfLife2

[mossy zinc]

If you can handle FO1, FO0 will be even easier honestly.

[idle hound]

Ironically, im so used to the rythm to dash through Hades spin that when it's slower i mess up

So to be clear, you suggest hl2 on top of lc4 right?

[mossy zinc]

Well, FO0 gives you more than enough time to dash early but still get out of spin range.

[mossy zinc]

No, personally I recommend HL5 FO0 on top of LC4. But some players insist on not listening to good advice, so HL2 FO1 and HL0 FO2 are reasonable alternatives for stubbornly defiant young ones.

[idle hound]

I love the sass

It does look scary though, hl5 and lc4

Feels like a no hit run

[mossy zinc]

SD allows you to take more hits throughout the run, actually. Since you can just heal back with SD if you're below 30%.

Well, you won't get the healing from fountains.

[idle hound]

True true

My only gripe is em3 and Hades

[mossy zinc]

EM3 FO0 is pretty chill.

Thing is... between HL5 FO0 and HL0 FO2, you'll take a lot more damage with the latter.

[mossy zinc]

That's kind of true for all high heat runs to some extent. If you're above 30% HP, you wanna retain that to carry it to the next boss. If you're at or below 30% HP, you'd want to be more aggressive to clear faster, and then just heal back at the end of the wave or with a trap after the encounter.

With AP0 etc. at 32 Heat, I think you can find Divine Dash like probably 9/10 times, and at least 1 DD from her maybe 3/5 times, and Patroclus 1/2 times...

Something like that.

[idle hound]

True, although i dont like having to rely on Athena, but 32heat isn't free

[mossy zinc]

I mean why not rely on something that's effective.

[idle hound]

Yeah, it's just that keepsakes 1 and 2 are for build, so 3 is for defense , and the gods know i need defense in Elysium

So if im looking for Athena it's either botch the build in Asphodel or forgo defense

Solution: Athena i s the build

[mossy zinc]

On probably most aspects, you can just do Heartbreak Strike > Divine Dash and you're good to go for your build.

You don't need to aim for a speedrun build that can do 32 Heat in sub 10.

[shy plinth]

The most reliable 32 pact is Nyaanyaa's

Nyaanyaa's 32 Heat Guide
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3
Stubborn Defiance
> Owl Pendant > Lucky Tooth/Acorn > Acorn

The most typical variation adds FO to remove 4 points of hl and two points of cf

Some aspects can get away with DC in here instead, but honestly, this pact just kinda works

I'd be very surprised if you found an easier 4 heat than lc4 SD in most 32 configs

Just means you gotta clean up boss fights and look for Athena defiances if you need a safety net - but SD also helps you break bad habits on heroes and hades because you can't just face tank

[severe wedge]

why would u go HL5 over FO2

[shy plinth]

Because it is easier

[severe wedge]

HL5's one of the main things that makes 40+ harder than 32

[shy plinth]

Have you done it without fo

Feels like everything is in slow motion

[severe wedge]

I havent taken FO2 off in like 150 hrs prob

[rapid hawk]

LC4 on 32 heat?

wtf

[shy plinth]

Yeah you're not used to it

Lc4 SD has been meta on 32 heat for literal years

It's way way easier than almost any other pact you'll find

If you want to go fo over hl you totally can, as you can see from my pinned sheet, I actually did 32x24 with fo2 Cf0 hl1

And it works, but Nyaanyaa's pact is consistently successful

[idle hound]

Would you rather get hit for more damage (hl) or get hit many more times for tje same amount (fo)

That's my rationale

[shy plinth]

Things just hang there

Would you rather die to asterius lol

[idle hound]

EXCATCLY

[shy plinth]

I did fo but I died to asterius a lot

[idle hound]

I just cannot outrun him in fo2

[shy plinth]

He hits super hard on hl but on fo it's really tough to get used to the timing

Just gotta line him up with those pillars

[idle hound]

Well, beginning attempt, wish mi pain

[rapid hawk]

I did 32 heat with FO2 and 1 LC

cause I dislike more

[shy plinth]

Your pact for 32 looked really hard

Credit to you for doing it that way

[rapid hawk]

I kinda cheesed it with shield

[shy plinth]

I mean you still had to do the run

You did the thing that we see a lot with first time 32s

Turn up all the things that slow runs down and then turn down td as a consequence

[rapid hawk]

honestly I spent an outrageous amount of time deciding pacts

[shy plinth]

So you end up with this super grindy endless assault of enemies with no boons

[rapid hawk]

yeah I knew i couldn't do TD at all

[shy plinth]

You could!

[rapid hawk]

even in normal runs I struggle with it

[shy plinth]

If you turn off DC and js you could def make a good effort

But td0 pacts look like that often

[rapid hawk]

like I did TD1 and was like and now to never turn you on again 😄

[shy plinth]

Feels like the game is way harder slogging through 60% more shielded enemies

So many ways for things to go wrong, especially with approval process

[rapid hawk]

I found the full victory screen since then btw, took 38 minutes

so yeah

[shy plinth]

38!!!!!

Like I said, impressive lol

I think it's much much tougher that way

[rapid hawk]

also I ran it with DD

[shy plinth]

But it is an option

Well yeah you played super defensively

Dds make sense there

[rapid hawk]

yeah

[idle hound]

Bouldy just granted me +10% cast damage

Blessed

[shy plinth]

That rocks

[idle hound]

I won't take it for granite

[rapid hawk]

I tried SDs several times but it never clicked for me so I guess LC4 would be the only time I'd run it

[shy plinth]

You would have to play completely differently

[rapid hawk]

yeah

and I can't do that 😄

[shy plinth]

This pun was marbleous btw

[idle hound]

Now I'll be the one casting the first stone

(oh gods that one was horrible)

[shy plinth]

After that pun we'll have to quarryntine you

[idle hound]

Pending executiom to die monday

Breezed Tartarus but i just realized i set lc to 3

🤡

[shy plinth]

Where did you get the extra heat from

[idle hound]

Currently have:
HL5 LC3 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO1 TD3

At Elysium

[shy plinth]

Oh you left fo1 on

Nice

[idle hound]

Played cowardly with Hydra

Btw I'm going with crystal beam and still haven't found clarity lmao

This run is something

OMG I'M SO STUPID

Im going beam I should have put DCÈ

Dc2

uuuuuuuuu jjjj

Found clarity at room 32 xD

Oh well i have a great build going, with greeter recall and lightning rod i can move freely

Time is wasting though

[mossy zinc]

me after I write that ^: I should do a sub 10 run at 32 with Zag Bow just for fun.
also me: accidentally gets 11 seconds behind WR https://i.imgur.com/YM34p9p.png

[idle hound]

Crazy

Are the cute icons the god pool?

[mossy zinc]

They're unique for each mod config in the speedrun modpack.

[mossy zinc]

No.

[idle hound]

Even with beam??

Huh

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, no.

I'd only recommend it on Rama because it makes so little difference for clear speed on that.

Crystal Beam runs already kinda slow, don't wanna make it slower.

[idle hound]

Ok

Well dead to heroes and time so i can tweak that

I'm still gonna try DC2, sorry for being stubborn

[mossy zinc]

Nice of you to give a practical example for my explanation.

[idle hound]

I died to cowardice

Yeah it was slow as hell

But also fun NGL

[shy plinth]

If you died to time why would you want to add dc2

[mossy zinc]

Should add JS3.

And RI1.

[idle hound]

Hahahaha

Lmao got stubborn roots

Aka free money

[shy plinth]

Stubborn roots very powerful duo

When you pick it up you gain 400 gold

[rapid hawk]

I feel kind of nostalgic about stubborn roots

got my first clear with it

sentimentality won't let me sell it

[forest token]

UC makes me sell it

and also free gold

[idle hound]

Td will make you sell it

I love god's legacy

[forest token]

td doesnt make you sell stubborn roots lmao

the only good use for roots is if you lose SD early in a fight

could just be an unfortunate trap or BP combo or whatever

[shy plinth]

Yeah like... roots is good if we get hit and then don't get hit after

Just do the not getting hit part first

[idle hound]

Me?

Avoiding hits?

Do i look like a Dodger?

IT GOT OFFERED AGAIN

Up to Elysium a breeze

Im liking this SD fella

Let's see if heroes approve

Sorry for being so chatty

[shy plinth]

How dare you talk about the game this channel and server is for

[forest token]

kinda shameful tbh

how could you

[idle hound]

Quick question: i have tooth and SD. If i die once and get life from Athena, i effectively get 3 lives next room correct?

[shy plinth]

I believe so

As long as you have an empty slot for the dd you should be able to get it and stack it

[idle hound]

Ok let's go

[shy plinth]

I don't know 100% how it works with tooth

[idle hound]

We'll discover now

I confirm it works

Tooth takes priority it seems

I have do much touch of styx im healing for 100%

With lc4

Unreal

It's like s whole new game

[shy plinth]

Patty 🙂

[idle hound]

My beloved

[shy plinth]

People are so scared of SD lc4

[idle hound]

I may never turn back

With cf0 there is no limits

[shy plinth]

Cf0 is like a drug

That's why I do fo2 cf0

[idle hound]

I BEST HEROES

Not a single life lost

And with a minute to spare

What a RUSH

Next question: entering styx, do i keep tooth or go acorn?

[forest token]

acorn is better

assuming not em4

[idle hound]

Not em4

[forest token]

acorn would be better unless you think you'll die in styx

[idle hound]

I have s life from Athena anyway

[forest token]

should be fine then

acorn would be good

[mossy zinc]

Acorn.

[idle hound]

Ok

2 lives, acorn, kiss of styx dark, 3 minutes and 50 seconds, bronze skin, different league and yet again stubborn roots

Dying would be the accomplishment here

Going for boss now

[forest token]

dont die

[idle hound]

I DIDN'T

NOT ONCE

AND I ATE SO MUCH SPEAR

[forest token]

gamer

[idle hound]

darn it the screenshots didnt save

or went somewhere mysterious

oh well

[mossy zinc]

Default location is ~\Documents\Saved Games\Hades\Screenshots.

[idle hound]

found

[shy plinth]

Grats 🙂

See SD ain't so bad

[cobalt rivet]

will hydralite gold do anything if im 100% LC

[shy plinth]

No

[idle hound]

it's been such a discovery

like, it doesnt matter to have less lives if you dont lose any

[shy plinth]

Yep

And also room clearing is so ez

[idle hound]

it's been exhilarating

[unique zephyr]

When people in a gaming server I’m in ask about 32 heat I try to pitch SD and LC4 to them but it’s scary to them

Which I totally get but there are so many worse places to put 4 heat and it makes BP2 more manageable

[shy plinth]

People fear lc4 td3 and then take js3 cf2 cp1

[idle hound]

it's me i'm people

[shy plinth]

Right there with you boss

First time 32 pacts are usually super cursed

Including mine

[unique zephyr]

It’s not like the game tells you what’s optimal

[idle hound]

discovery is part of the adventure

[unique zephyr]

One pact condition that I’ve found people underestimate is cp2

[idle hound]

ummm

that one makes bosses endless

i think

[shy plinth]

Yeah it's super punishing but people just throw it on there

Yes

[unique zephyr]

Like I think I did TD2 CP2 JS3 for my first 32 attempts before people here made suggestions and timed out and didn’t think I could do TD3, but turns out CP2 JS3 adds a lot of time

[unique zephyr]

A lot of the punishment comes from tight deadline being a pact

Playing without a timer, which many people do before doing 32 heat, the interaction that JS and CP have with tight deadline isn’t something they had to think about or experience

[modest wharf]

my first 32 was TD1 because I did not know how to go any faster with hestia

[unique zephyr]

Oooh Hestia gang, my first 32 heat was with Hestia

[modest wharf]

I have this one memory of a tartarus room where there were so many numbskulls with bp blue hearts and I was running around trying not get hit

[idle hound]

I think that must be like a rite of passage

Welcome to the true Hades boyo

[hexed sapphire]

I skipped 32 for my first high heat clear

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/998389887982120990/unknown.png

this pact is rigged

[forest token]

Nice cf2

[wispy blade]

em4

td2

[shy plinth]

Oh are we posting cursed first time 32s

[forest token]

That's 40

Lvl 1 skull earring is so based tho

[shy plinth]

So it is

[wispy blade]

pstatus W

[shy plinth]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElJyF_QWAAEpvOi?format=jpg&name=large

[wispy blade]

cp2

ap1

[shy plinth]

Priv status, DDs

And the pact of Gilgamesh

[wispy blade]

the lc1 is so based \

[shy plinth]

Just a little less healing

Just a little

[wispy blade]

mine was silly

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/1062573690404995133/image.png

18 min td2

[shy plinth]

Hahaha

We made up for it with LC2 HS

[wispy blade]

last stand was the most important boon there

[shy plinth]

Oh my god your health

[wispy blade]

yeah

i lost it all at the beginning of phase 2 hades

[forest token]

Bar isn't even there lmao

[shy plinth]

THE COLLAR

[wispy blade]

collar stays winning

[shy plinth]

Collar is 150 health

Tooth is 100 health

[wispy blade]

125

[shy plinth]

Checkmate, Collar

[wispy blade]

50 25 25 25

[shy plinth]

Oh right

Still, more

[wispy blade]

and yeah

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1028112977100017666/1067275972707098644/image.png

the bar literally is not there

not a single pixel

[shy plinth]

The lasers must have been so incredibly stressful

[wispy blade]

oh yeah

i think i clipped it

well

i deleted it

for space

sad

i keep recording runs and then

forgetting to turn off the recording

so i come back and ive got a 90 gb file

wow

only like

a few weeks ago

i was absolute garbo

i guess that means i can't be far from there now huh

[abstract solstice]

Guys I am stuck in 32 heat. I mostly use coronacht or shield but I can not get past our old man of his 2nd phase. What kind of built should I go for?

[haughty sky]

which aspects?

[abstract solstice]

I mostly use rama and chaos sometimes zeus

[modest wharf]

What's your pact?

[haughty sky]

rama you can start with either aphrodite or artemis attack, chaos isn’t very good but aphro attack on it works well too

zeus you’ll want to start with zeus special then go for more zeus support boons

for 40 and below athena dash start works well on nearly every aspect

[marsh shore]

What even counts as high heat

[modest wharf]

What I've heard is generally 32+

[mossy zinc]

High heat leaderboard starts at 32.

[mossy zinc]

Rama: Heartbreak Strike start and look for Lightning/Doom/Hangover on Special, whichever you see first. Hunter Dash or Divine Dash if you can find them in Tartarus. When you get to Asphodel and don't have a Dash yet, take the Owl Pendant for Divine Dash.

Pact: HL5 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC DC2 TD3

[idle hound]

Imma try that today

[abstract solstice]

Oh I see. Thanks for all. I am not on pc so I could not share the pact.

I will share the pact as well. Thanks again

[hexed sapphire]

thunder flourish start has merit

rama is pretty attack boon tolerant

like hestia

[idle hound]

Does Nourished Soul work with LC4?

[hoary pasture]

No

[forest token]

Can't sell it either lol

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, but for a first 32 with it, I think starting with Weak and early access to Life Affirmation etc. is a lot easier.

[timber beacon]

Ig I’m here now since I’m suffering at 36 atm.

Any tips on keepsakes?

[jaunty falcon]

God keepsake -> another god keepsake (usually Athena) -> tooth/acorn -> acorn

[mossy zinc]

With or without god mode? And what's your pact and aspect?

[timber beacon]

Hold on.

But in summary I didn’t take anything that nerfed me, just stuff that buffs enemies.

And I don’t have tight deadline

[jaunty falcon]

Might be a good idea to practice speeding up so you can work up to T3

[timber beacon]

Yep, that’s why.

[timber beacon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1067050251845910568/1067509307656110250/image.png

[jaunty falcon]

Ouch

I can see why you’re losing now

[hoary pasture]

That's the official "I wanna die" pact

[rapid hawk]

EM4, FO2 and HS, that's a bold one

[forest token]

HS is fine tbh

Em4 is death

Fo2 is pretty standard

Dc2 is workable depending on the aspect but there's better choices probably

Oh no lc4 that's an issue

On td3

Or TD for that matter

[timber beacon]

Is it? I’m ngl I think buffing the enemies is a helluva lot easier than nerfing me.

[timber beacon]

Yeah that, that is the devil.

[forest token]

You're buffing enemies the wrong way

[forest token]

Lc4 means you don't have to take em4 for starters

[rapid hawk]

I don't know how far you actually made it with this but I first thing I would axe would be EM4 because yeah

[forest token]

Cp2 gives bosses a ton more hp and makes break points much higher

[timber beacon]

Lel, honestly HL, Calisthenics and blue heart are what’s kicking my ass rn.

[clever otter]

lc4 is no problem at all when you learn how to play around it

[timber beacon]

Cuz now the mobs can live long enough to chip me down.

[timber beacon]

Well yeah but I’d rather just not suffer.

Lol

[jaunty falcon]

Then remove CP2 JS3 DC2 EM4

[timber beacon]

Yeah Meg got giga buffed.

[timber beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/no-way-dude-no-oh-bugs-bunny-bugs-gif-22941840

[rapid hawk]

I see people taking HS but for me it feels like such a hard pact for such little heat, you make one mistake in Styx/ Hades fight and it's over

[jaunty falcon]

Then don’t complain about finding it difficult

[timber beacon]

I can promise you I wasn’t complaining lol.

[forest token]

you're suffering from dying on 36 heat

[forest token]

okay so what's the point of asking for help if you're not taking any of the advice?

[timber beacon]

That’s acceptable suffering.

[timber beacon]

Isn’t the advice supposed to be how to beat it with’the choices?

Like what keepsakes/ companions to choose yo cope.

[forest token]

not really, it's more of "how to beat 36 heat"

because it's the number that matters

[jaunty falcon]

Do you want to beat 36 heat or do you wanna beat 45 heat in disguise

[timber beacon]

Damn.

F

[forest token]

not what is on the pact

[forest token]

lookin more like 50 tbh

with em4 cp2

[clever otter]

yeah this seems like a 50 heat pact with 36 heat in practice

why not make it a little easier on yourself?

[forest token]

i mean at this point, it's just learning how to fight enemies with more hp and how to fight em4

[timber beacon]

Honestly I thought just capping it at 36 was cowardly so I’m surprised that it’s actually considered that hard.

[hexed sapphire]

em4 cp2 isn't even taken until 58 sometimes

[forest token]

and dealing with js3 cp2 while you're at it

[jaunty falcon]

What’s the highest you’ve done

36 is gonna be really tough if you haven’t gone above 20

[timber beacon]

Because I wanna be cool.

[forest token]

i think they've done 32

[forest token]

if you really want to stick to that pact, might as well do 40 tbh

slap on lc4 and you're done

40 looks better than 36 because bigger number and it's a multiple of 10 lol

[hexed sapphire]

aren't you already using stubborn defiance?

LC4 should be no problem then

[forest token]

oh yeah lmao that's very true

[hoary pasture]

I mean if you want advice on how to beat it with your current pact then it's just get gud

[timber beacon]

I have gone above 20 cuz pretty much I’ve been doing em4, forced overtime, middle management and benefits package while I could still get bounties.

[hoary pasture]

And probably read the Em4 guide

[timber beacon]

But since I can’t anymore I thought I’d get the little stuff and go for broke.

[placid blade]

guys imma blast a run with aspect of zeus and dyonosis gift

[timber beacon]

Fair enough, just thought there’d be some keepsake, companion or something that’d help. Oh well, I reached Elysium, just gotta keep grinding.

[timber beacon]

Nic.

[forest token]

ngl the keepsakes don't really ever change

except like, tooth into asphodel

and earring if you're short on time

idk too much about earring but that's what i heard i think

[hexed sapphire]

eh

it's kinda different

[timber beacon]

Ok true but I was planning in getting gud at this and then getting td to round it up.

[hexed sapphire]

like hrglass is a lot more prevalent at lower heats

[forest token]

companion will always be battie, no point in running antos because dc2 makes things more complicated

[jaunty falcon]

I’ve never taken earring at 50+ lol

[forest token]

neither have i but i heard there was a use case for it sometimes lol

[severe wedge]

lol I went straight from like 10 heat to 32 bc I wanted to knock out both of the oast 2 statues at once

[forest token]

it's very doable lol

matty did 8 to 32 to 40

[timber beacon]

Lelz

[forest token]

his 32 pact was a bit cursed but he did it multiple times

with a different pact the next time i think

[light sedge]

@severe wedge 170 clears and pushing 40+ heat is pretty whack, grats

I took a long time before pushing heat because I enjoyed more varied builds too much.

[severe wedge]

u only have 90 though

[light sedge]

You're bottle-necked into certain builds after a certain heat

Yea, but it's a fresh file I made after the sequel announcement

I can check later but I think I have 600+ escapes on my "main" save

[timber beacon]

They’re really fun.

[severe wedge]

ohhh that's what u meant by brainrot cope file

[severe wedge]

im surprised sea storm still works lol

would think low tolerance is best for chiron since it procs pstatus w/o tier 2 boons

[light sedge]

Ehh it doesn't really lol, but I played what I enjoyed rather than the meta

[jaunty falcon]

with ap0 id say sea storm was probably the best choice

im still to beat chiron 50

[light sedge]

rupture early carries hard

[jaunty falcon]

for sure

one of my favourite boons

[light sedge]

Are you trying to push 50+ with all aspects?

[jaunty falcon]

yea

at 12/24

[light sedge]

Damn, v nice, gl!

[jaunty falcon]

modded tho

thx

its one of the many goals ive set myself this year

[light sedge]

Ah so it's easier on the grind then, still! Very respectable

I'll try to do 48/50 with all weps, but idk if I'll have all my hair by the time i finish

I despise the sword and fists

[timber beacon]

Lel, I love fists.

[jaunty falcon]

out of the 12 ive done 1 sword and 0 fists LOL

[timber beacon]

[light sedge]

Arthur and Guan Yu would be impossible for me at that high heat lol

[timber beacon]

You're kidding, gy I get, but Arthur?

[severe wedge]

But doesnt Zeus attack suck on the bow

[severe wedge]

wdym , Guan Yu is way better than Arthur

[light sedge]

It's too slow for me

[jaunty falcon]

zeus call is probably best in slot

and zeus cast is great since chiron struggles aoe

[timber beacon]

Huh, must be a FO problem,

[severe wedge]

i always like zeus cast unless im using hera

[light sedge]

It does, but I used it to strip the blue hearts and to spread Jolted before getting Sea Storm

[timber beacon]

I agree, I'm just saying I've heard way more peeps complain about gy than Arthur

[shy plinth]

When you're talking 50 heat it becomes very difficult to not take DC

And arthur and DC don't mix

When people are playing at that level, the guan yu downside is heavily mitigated because getting hit sucks equally on all weapons

And the damage output on the special is very high and potentially quite fast, especially with explosive which can strip multiple shields

[hoary pasture]

do fists you're ruining the victory screen

[timber beacon]

Lel, fair

[severe wedge]

nobody who does 50 heat regularly (not me) would complain about guan yu more than arthur

[timber beacon]

Fair.

[shy plinth]

Man I just scrolled up and this pact is wild

[forest token]

It's a 50 pact in disguise

[shy plinth]

The disguise is not very good

[mossy zinc]

Speedruns or if you're more worried about timing out than anything. I've also used it in Asphodel with AP2 just to speed up the time a bit there to get more time for the later biomes. It's not much, but there's not too much else to take there.

[hoary pasture]

I mean it's tough I don't think it's that tough

[shy plinth]

It is one of the more challenging pacts I've seen at that heat

Though no AP no RI

[hoary pasture]

no AP no RI no HL no TD no LC

[forest token]

Yeah missing ri4

[shy plinth]

I can see the logic in a TD0 world, it's just so far from what I've done

And I doubt I'd be able to clear it lol

[severe wedge]

ew wtf why would u not take tight deadline, uc, or cf

[mossy zinc]

What aspect do you want to use, and how much damage reduction is your god mode at now?

[timber beacon]

I legit thought it was just a cope pick lol.

[timber beacon]

It's maxed lol and honestly any aspect as long as it's fists.

[shy plinth]

You have actually illustrated an ongoing conversation from the past few days very well

[severe wedge]

lol i did 40 on every fist aspect but that feels like the upper limit for me on that weapon

[hoary pasture]

I don't understand god mode and heat pushing

[shy plinth]

The most common pact advice we offer in here over the past... well, multiple years at this point - is to stop taking pacts that slow you down and stop being scared of TD

This is the quintessential example

You can absolutely do a TD0 thing if you wanna do it, but the avoidance of speed often leads to runs with a lot of opportunity to be punished

[mossy zinc]

Think of the pacts just as variety and it makes more sense, I think.

[timber beacon]

Because I'm too slow for TD, I like money and boons.

[timber beacon]

But what if I got gud and did both?

[shy plinth]

You're too slow because you're slowing yourself down

You're driving in first gear and saying you can't hit the speed limit

[timber beacon]

I ain't complaining that I'm too slow, I'm saying I need to get faster myself so I'm qualified for TD

[shy plinth]

Right

But with JS3 CP2 DC you're not going to get there

[timber beacon]

Bet.

[shy plinth]

Try out Nyaanyaa's 32 pact, see what it's like

[jaunty falcon]

bruh blue lernie just did the head slam move 3 times in a row

😭

[timber beacon]

Oh? tell me the Pacts.

[timber beacon]

Lel.

[shy plinth]

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

[severe wedge]

even if ur too slow for td3 u could at least do td2

[severe wedge]

dude i hate that so much

[timber beacon]

I'll do it when I beat my h36 bass boosted

[severe wedge]

esp when it's the one who spits lava all over the track and then also does the head slams while impervious and theres 7 other heads

[hoary pasture]

Just add TD2 to your current pact and push to 40 right away

[mossy zinc]

EM4 FO2 on Malphon is pretty much the hardest fight in the game tbh. I recommend swapping out EM4 for HL4 EM3. Then swap to JS2 CP0 DC0 by taking UC and TD2. UC might look like it's nerfing you, which you said you didn't want, but tbh most of the time you're just getting your money back, and if you purge a Duo Boon, you're even making a profit.

Then start Eternal Rose for Heartbreak Strike, try to get it to Lv.3-4 in Tartarus ideally. And double down on Centaur Hearts, damage reduction, and dodge chance. Get a Call asap, one that's good at Lesser Call like Zeus' Aid and Dionysus' Aid because that will open up Second Wind in Lord Hermes's boon pool, which gives you a better chance at getting more chance. The other ones you'd want from him are Greatest Reflex, Hyper Sprint, and Greater Evasion.

In Asphodel, just swap to whatever you think you need for the build depending on what you got in Tartarus. If you're not sure, just leave your Dash slot open in Tartarus and go for Divine Dash in Asphodel.

Acorn has super low value actually with so much damage reduction from god mode already. You're better off with Hourglass in Elysium for more healing and DPS, and then for the Hades fight, grab Collar if you still have 3 DDs, and otherwise either Lucky Tooth or Myrmidon Bracer.

[severe wedge]

100% hyper delivery 🥒

[severe wedge]

I did EM4 FO2 on Malphon for my first Fist 40 lol. Without HL5 it is not the hardest fight in the game

[timber beacon]

Thanks.

[mossy zinc]

I think the point flew over your head tbh.

[timber beacon]

Does Myrmidon Bracer work on trap damage or nah?

[mossy zinc]

Should work for directional damage. Doesn't work for magma and things like that.

Probably not for the green urns.

[severe wedge]

Are you just trying to beat 40 heat or you specifically want to win your cursed pact

[mossy zinc]

Can easily get thousands of eHP by just doubling down on Centaur Hearts and damage reduction + dodge chance.

So should be fine.

[idle hound]

Zag fist heat 32, SD LC4 or DD?

[hoary pasture]

SD

If you want to do DDs for 32 you wouldn't run LC4

Not strongly recommended but it works, I'd stick to LC4 SD