But im stinky at it
#h1-builds-and-combat
proper furnace
gusty rapids
hera good
frail schooner
I got back into hades yesterday because my gf was playing beat saber at my place and she played one of the hades OSTs and she was like wow this game has a really good score and then i remembered i have game pass so i downloaded it and i was like i should play this again too
Maybe i’ll actually get 40 heat now that i have a controller
Did they ever change that healing demeter boon
proper furnace
Nourished soul?
Is still a sad boon tho i've been playing since 1.0 so idk if it went under some change
frail schooner
I always hoped they’d make it additive with LC lol
queen cape
For heat at least
just sell it 
unreal tree
near heath
Random question
Let's say I have Hyper Sprint, and I'm offered common Rush Delivery or common Greatest Reflex
I'm running a Merciful End build on twin fists, the thing is fully set, what is better overall?
strange lark
RD
near heath
One more proc or damage
strange lark
Imo
near heath
I see, okay
I did pick the faster option in the end, got it
posted in victory boasting
sterile fiber
Waaaaaaaah https://imgur.com/a/Fru8Djh
I had this except the 3rd one was crystal beam cast replace
hidden musk
what would be a good build for the guan yu spear?
hidden musk
thanks
lusty valve
What kind of builds scale best with poms?
proven osprey
Cast builds, merciful end, Dionysus based build
strange lark
@junior moss double iframes is pretty good
and with fists you need the second dash
since you are using dashstrikes so much
tight basin
and also double dashing lets you close the distance faster
strange lark
there are some times when ruthless reflex is good
junior moss
and also double dashing lets you close the distance faster
they're coming to ME, not the other way around 😛
tight basin
fo0 td0 gaming
if you're building towards a dodge build then sure rr is fine i suppose
but in general gr just allows for more iframes and mobility
the 50% dodge chance from rr is outclassed by 100% iframes from a dash imo lol
proper furnace
RR is fine for shields/gilga but is weird to use on others
dreamy prism
this is why gilgamesh is regarded as the best aspect in the game
proper furnace
Or just get purple dashes 
dreamy prism
dashes = good
gilgy = +2 dashes
gilgy = good
strange lark
this is why gilgamesh is regarded as the best aspect in the game
this is true
junior moss
I don't have gilgamesh yet 😭
I have revealed guan yu
and invested 5 thingies in fisting
random relic
lmao i havent unlocked gilga talos and hades
gilga seems interesting so i might unlock that one at some point
dreamy prism
it's better than talos and hades imo
purely because it's the best ME aspect when highrolled
strange lark
hestia is the best ME aspect
dreamy prism
based
plain river
hestia is the best ME aspect
Arthur best ME aspect
neon ginkgo
What do you run on beowulf? I literally just got it
plain river
Pos cast works well because then you’re halfway there to mirage shot which is broken on beo making it effectively *2 damage rather than *1.3
trippy shot is very luck dependent and relies on stygian cast for it to work but it can work extremely well due to it’s poms giving it twice as much damage
random relic
this is why phalanx shot = bad smh
hexed lagoon
Blade rift >>
I don't really use cast
But I used in my last run
Pulled three out on to theseus
And started attacking
Did a decent chunk of damage
tawny grove
this is why phalanx shot = bad smh
:(
plain river
what boons am I looking for on rama? arte/aphro?
tight basin
aphro atk for consistency i believe
and then something about flat damage for the special
maybe zeus for smair
tldr, beefy % on atk, flat dmg on special, artemis dash because none of the dashes are useful so might as well buff datk
ddash is nice tho
daring swallow
At first i thought the final spear was crap because it took away health but i didnt read the frost bit
It actually lets me regain health
Real neat
plain river
the hp regen is like the least relevant part when using it tbh
the special is good and you only really want to use the spin if you have the hammer which makes it charge fast and charge big
quasi briar
this is why gilgamesh is regarded as the best aspect in the game
I thought gilgamesh was gilgatrash
did meta change
plain river
a) it's not gilgatrash, b) the meta did not change
quasi briar
how do you play gilgamesh other than tidal dash spam
maim just feels like doom but worse
plain river
merciful end
I get doom strike, athena flourish and dash then the duo and you're set
plain river
the extra damage and dash really helps out
quasi briar
so maim an enemy and then proc me a bunch with extra dash?
plain river
that's how I've been using giglamesh
turn on ruthless reflex for more damage/ dodge chance since you still end out with more dashes than normal
quasi briar
mhm
uneven steppe
does anyone know any good seeds for beowulf trippy flare
valid dagger
does anyone know any good seeds for beowulf trippy flare
Good seeds?
strange lark
theres the beo route seed
that one has a lot of casts in it
i dont really know how it works if you dont start flood flare tho 
valid dagger
You can probably get a cast and artemis out of it
maybe 2 casts
But I'm not sure they know how seeds work
strange lark
its just like minecraft
valid dagger
uneven steppe
Ye I rly love the build but every time I feel like i get a terrible god pool or like one chaos gate in total
uneven steppe
That’s the problem with high damage builds
valid dagger
But seeds aren't easy to work with because the starting dictates the starting boon, c2 reward and whether there's chaos gates in c2-3 but beyond that you dont have any knowledge of what you're getting so you'll have to do manipulations
Which are precise and you'll need a sheet open to read out what you're meant to do so
It's kind of a mess
uneven steppe
I have no time for manipulation tho cause rly what u said
valid dagger
If you want a good damage build on Beo run Passion Flare or Flood Flare instead
strange lark
You can't just type in a number for the seed 😲
valid dagger
And try to get Mirage shot asap
uneven steppe
Also is it just me or is guan yu kinda ass
strange lark
Just you
uneven steppe
K
valid dagger
It's tough at first but it's a strong weapon, relies on a hammer tho
uneven steppe
Yeah u kinda need charged skewer
gusty rapids
ye its a bit hammer reliant
nocturne ether
Any advice on how to dodge attacks more efficiently? I feel like in most rooms I'm getting hit way more often than I need to, and if I only try to dodge I struggle to find openings to attack in
For reference I mainly play eris rail, but I wanna get better at just dodging in general
tight basin
if you dont know already: dashing has iframes, dash atks removes your iframes
other than that there isn't much to say other than learning the enemy atk patterns better i dont think
nocturne ether
if you dont know already: dashing has iframes, dash atks removes your iframes
yeah i already know that, but with eris rail im dash attacking quite a bit so yeah it doesnt really help
tight basin
stop dash attacking as much then i guess lol
let the trigger finger go and normal dash i guess
nocturne ether
i thought you pretty much needed to dash atk or else you lose on higher dps with more bullets used and splash dash dmg for eris?
tight basin
well if you want to avoid being hit, using the iframes would probably be important
cunning urchin
Raise the Heat until you actually need to evade enemy attacks in order to clear the run.
nocturne ether
im on 16 heat rn, dont know if thats enough
cunning urchin
There's not much point in trying to learn to be evasive when rolling over enemies is more effective or efficient.
nocturne ether
well if you want to avoid being hit, using the iframes would probably be importa...
so just be less aggressive then?
cunning urchin
im on 16 heat rn, dont know if thats enough
Probably not, especially if you're playing Eris. I would say at 16 just focus on clear speed. Improving your IGT will improve your mechanics a lot.
nocturne ether
There's not much point in trying to learn to be evasive when rolling over enemie...
one thing is, my double dash might be more counter intuitive to me when i do that cause at times i feel like im just dashing all over the place
nocturne ether
Probably not, especially if you're playing Eris. I would say at 16 just focus on...
oh ok
cunning urchin
Well, you can't be dashing "all over the place" if you're trying to improve your IGT since you'll need to be efficient with your movement. At 16 Heat, you can play mindlessly with Eris and still clear easily, but improving your IGT will give you something to focus on that requires more precision. That'll help you a lot when you reach a point where you can't just play hyper-aggressive, too, because you'll be more mindful of your movement and enemy behavior.
teal gate
What goes well with Demeter cast ?
lucid oar
Aspect of Achilles and her duo with Artemis
teal gate
Aspect of Achilles and her duo with Artemis
Ye but what else can go well?
lucid oar
Snow burst, stygian soul with extra cast stones, glacial glare
teal gate
Snow burst, stygian soul with extra cast stones, glacial glare
Ight I'll keep that in mind ty
proper furnace
Snow burst into artic blast is nice too
clever phoenix
try to get the artemis legendary as well
plain river
Trippy flare is major high roll
junior moss
can someone explain to me why you would ever really take this (other than to sell for gold)
it seems sooo bad
junior moss
It's not hurtful really
is that the benchmark of a boon not being bad?
that is doesn't hurt you?
dreamy prism
it's a decent buff
dreamy prism
not the best of zeus but zeus can scale call really hard and clouded judgement helps with that
pretty average boon
tight basin
is that the benchmark of a boon not being bad?
I mean obv there are better things but if you're offered it and the others aren't great might as well take it
dreamy prism
zeus call can quickly become 90% of your dps and that just straight up buffs that by about 14%
so yeah it's okay
tight basin
14% on EPIC ??
Calls can be strong when used properly and considering how fast smair can be charged 14% faster is pretty considerable
tight basin
Ah does it not stack
dreamy prism
I mean it does
but smair charges for free and every 5s which means charge via damage is insignificant
clouded is mostly a helpful multiplicative buff for non smair builds with a heavy call
tight basin
True
junior moss
I would say it being at least like 20% at epic would make a lot more sense
dreamy prism
10 I believe
dreamy prism
I would say it being at least like 20% at epic would make a lot more sense
nah it's good enough
junior moss
How much is common
10%
junior moss
And can it be pommed
now you've invested a boon AND a pom
plain river
And then you’ve got that one pos boon where you get hit once and you have your full call
tight basin
If you're running a Zeus centered build you're gonna end up seeing it eventually and if the other options aren't good then might as well take it
strange lark
clouded judgement is pretty good
some things can build god gauge fast
and with that boon they can build it even faster
random relic
indeed
below 60 damage the amount of call you get per damage dealt scales linearly
so like 50 damage charges 0.5% of it i think
dreamy prism
wait what is the call formula
random relic
the part about taking damage is how seeded loyalty card works actually
it takes a chaos -hp boon so charons hits instantly charge full gauge aphro call
random relic
lmao
dreamy prism
man the charge on damage thing seems absolutely minuscule
but it actually does make sense
random relic
yeah lol
dreamy prism
still
random relic
hence why you never get calls with something like hestia or rama lol
dreamy prism
2k damage for 1% seems wild
random relic
but eris charges it like nyoom
dreamy prism
eris <<< lucy
random relic
2k damage for 1% seems wild
i know, it makes absolutely no sense lmao
random relic
eris <<< lucy
eris with 75% global damage >>> luci
random relic
honestly its crazy how builds like eris just need to keep getting boons otherwise the damage just falls off by ely lol
meanwhile something like beo just needs mirage and some poms
random relic
+75% is just one rare hyper delivery
yeah but +75% and epic hyper delivery is like 8/3 of a rare hyper delivery
dreamy prism
it doesn't overkill so it probably has less dps than beo builds
hence why beo pulls ahead without more scaling vs higher hp stuff
random relic
yeah
but i mean if you get clockets your damage is fine for the rest of the run lmao
dreamy prism
but i mean if you get clockets your damage is fine for the rest of the run lmao
clockets is bad because it gets you high on damage
random relic
true 😔
dreamy prism
lucy >>> eris because you don't get clockets addicted
random relic
im a clockets addict, ill admit it
dreamy prism
lmao imagine clockets intervention
dreamy prism
true
dreamy prism
beo is nice because the flood route doesn't have much to get addicted to
besides like braid stacking or whatever
plain river
Trippy beo got me addicted to it 🥵
dreamy prism
bad
all trippy beo acolytes got +3 casts and mirage a month ago and have been chasing that high ever since
valid dagger
Well it's really sad without those
2 casts + mirage is the least I'd accept tbh
And i'd like some more damage on top of that
random relic
how are you addicted to clockets
i get it like 70% of runs
each run without it is saddening
valid dagger
Ice wine and sci feast are barely worth it
dreamy prism
yeah with cheat engine
valid dagger
Ice wine is pretty bad because of the delay
random relic
yeah with cheat engine
hey hey hey im only guaranteed rocket
dreamy prism
scintillating def better
random relic
all trippy beo acolytes got +3 casts and mirage a month ago and have been chasin...
lmao yeah
dreamy prism
but then the zaps don't even do much without zeus highroll so bleh
strange lark
i get it like 70% of runs
prove it
play 100 runs
and see how many times you get clockets
random relic
play 100 runs
thats a lot of runs though
valid dagger
If you're that slow you have other things to worry about
random relic
and by then my luck wouldve regressed to the mean
dreamy prism
it's pretty trivial to full RD casts tbh
plain river
Isn’t the first cast usually out before your movespeed gets buffed?
dreamy prism
no need for delay
plain river
even if you dashed the split second you were able to
valid dagger
If you charge at very close range then probably
But usually you have time
Because you're not that close
dreamy prism
oh for cshot it's 100% trivial for obvious reasons
plain river
Cshot yeah
strange lark
thats a lot of runs though
smh git gud
dreamy prism
yeah at non point blank range especially
plain river
you’re fine
random relic
smh git gud
ur mom
dreamy prism
wtf this server is so toxic
random relic
lmao
strange lark
wtf this server is so toxic
L
dreamy prism
random relic
ive said ur mom 3 times in this server and theyve all been in response to vowel cat guy telling me to get good
junior moss
you have like a 0.5% chance to get it each run
really? I got it multiple times in just a couple runs
random relic
that was a joke, its probably like 20% of the time unmodded
strange lark
wdym did you get it 5 times in 3 runs
random relic
modded though its like 40%
dreamy prism
I get clockets super consistently on modded lucy
random relic
hmmmm
dreamy prism
don't ask what modded means in my case
valid dagger
I can force them to see what happens
junior moss
modded though its like 40%
modded?
dreamy prism
do it
random relic
isn't rocket explicitly 80d
well yeah but why would a hammer nerf you
random relic
I can force them to see what happens
do itt
dreamy prism
well yeah but why would a hammer nerf you
lol yeah imagine hammers being downgrades
random relic
wait
junior moss
speedrunning modpack
what does it do?
dreamy prism
that would be pretty ridiculous wouldn't it
dreamy prism
what does it do?
it lets you press a certain key combination to skip a biome
junior moss
it lets you press a certain key combination to skip a biome
skip a biome?
dreamy prism
like if you're doing really well leaving asphodel you wanna press companion + call + reload + interact
random relic
what does it do?
gives you all 4 core boons on your first boon, you can guarantee a specific hammer to show up as your first, removes time wasting minibosses (like tiny vermin) and shows fountain doors
dreamy prism
that skips elysium
random relic
it also adds a few qol features like a quick reset
proper furnace
you can also reset through the combination that dire mentioned, it sends you directly to the courtyard
junior moss
gives you all 4 core boons on your first boon, you can guarantee a specific hamm...
isn't that just cheating?
strange lark
yes
proper furnace
🗿
dreamy prism
Yes.
strange lark
it is indeed cheating
junior moss
the 'guarantee first boon' thing I can sorta understand as it just saves resets
random relic
isn't that just cheating?
not really, theres a different leaderboard for it on speedrun.com
strange lark
not really, theres a different leaderboard for it on speedrun.com
no be quiet
junior moss
but the other stuff sounds like just cheating
random relic
omg lmao
dreamy prism
it's cheating
junior moss
not really, theres a different leaderboard for it on speedrun.com
if it's a different category no problem
dreamy prism
fr tho it is
random relic
fr tho it is
omg shut up lmao
strange lark
if it's a different category no problem
yeah lmao
proper furnace
at some point Dire is actually gonna believe is cheating 🗿
junior moss
and if you're just doing it for yourself for whatever reason - it's a single player game can do what you want
I did look through some mods for this game
junior moss
but all that I could see was basically just mods that make the game easier...
dreamy prism
omg shut up lmao
oops that was in response to being different category
random relic
but all that I could see was basically just mods that make the game easier...
indeed 😔
dreamy prism
I swear I'm not that RR zag plume person who left
proper furnace
but all that I could see was basically just mods that make the game easier...
add the more heat mod, is "fun"
random relic
oh god that person lol
random relic
add the more heat mod, is "fun"
ah yes my favorite, hl10 fo4 asterius swings
speeder chariots on fo4
i love it
dreamy prism
I still wanna try highest possible heat except all the heat is DC
random relic
also fun fact enemy move and attack speed is multiplicative
so a speeder enemy on fo4 moves and attacks 2.7x as fast
junior moss
we need a mod that gives chariots divine dash
random relic
no
dreamy prism
lol they need ME then
random relic
remember that 3am conversation we were having about weird pact ideas lol
i suggested giving enemies a dash
dreamy prism
I still think legitimately viable pact levels is interesting idea to explore
junior moss
has anyone done a perfect hades run, never getting hit once? (without acorn)
random relic
yes
random relic
its actually a new category extension on speedrun.com lmao
dreamy prism
no one has ever beaten a hades run in the first place
why would hitless be possible
proper furnace
true! zag always dies at the end
random relic
no one has ever beaten a hades run in the first place
this is true
im still struggling to get past the first boss, that stupid sneak guy
dreamy prism
omg same
#h1-victory-boasting is a hoax invented by big contractor to sell us more themes
strange lark
Has anyone ever done a Speedrun of this game
junior moss
I wish you could fight charon 5 times in a run, giving 5 membership cards making shops free
valid dagger
strange lark
Fun
random relic
I wish you could fight charon 5 times in a run, giving 5 membership cards making...
what if price reduction is actually multiplicative
knowing supergiants code, probably is
random relic
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/977549245810884648/Dis...
WTF
not something i need in my life
dreamy prism
lol
random relic
So I played with it and CP4
ok ew
valid dagger
So +60% hp
random relic
cp4 sounds like such a slog
proper furnace
what is the last perk?
dreamy prism
what if price reduction is actually multiplicative
lowkey boons that interact with shop would be really interesting
valid dagger
teleport
dreamy prism
shame that's not a mechanic in game
random relic
yeah
dreamy prism
speeder teleporter lol
dreamy prism
and slugger?
dreamy prism
lol
dreamy prism
and full splitter ball is like 10 projectiles isn't it
proper furnace
does cerb just hits you for 200?
random relic
you get a room of like 10 of them and its just a death sentence
or a timer sentence
random relic
lmao nice
dreamy prism
the only good thing about splitters is they give ddash actual dps
proper furnace
i thought it did 100 at hl5
dreamy prism
rip
proper furnace
sad
dreamy prism
cerberus is worst companion tbh
valid dagger
it actually looks sick lol
valid dagger
now go for the cursed one and show flurry jab gy
ugh my internet is giving up on life
dreamy prism
hazard lucy sounds sick
proper furnace
the biggest orb in the underworld
valid dagger
I have that one somewhere
random relic
https://streamable.com/so6b3p <@450317477717475329> <@279126808455151628>
beautiful
valid dagger
random relic
thats amazing
random relic
yeah lmao
random relic
wait what is the call formula
also btw the speedtech channel just has all sorts of random useful stuff and cgull doing math
junior moss
does chaos's "your attack deal +63% damage" also work with doom applied by my attack?
junior moss
Doom damage is the same
what about zeus's flat damage?
valid dagger
nope
Only the actual attack
Flat damage is different kind of damage and scales with global damage instead, or T2s like Ares' Doom with impending doom
dreamy prism
also btw the speedtech channel just has all sorts of random useful stuff and cgu...
I just binged the speedrun glossary
nice
now I need to remember to implement nyxtech and menu than
plain river
Can dot effects like hangover or ruptured crit?
strange lark
ye
grand rampart
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/976594205071781889/976594483699400714/unk...
LMAO amazing
valid dagger
dusty prawn
Watch Druciferr81 with me on Twitch! https://www.twitch.tv/druciferr81?sr=a
proper furnace
Watch Druciferr81 with me on Twitch! https://www.twitch.tv/druciferr81?sr=a
Should post in #self-promotion instead
plain river
What happens if you take yarn w/ exclusive access?
valid dagger
What happens if you take yarn w/ exclusive access?
The yarn will boost Legendary and Duo odds
dreamy prism
deploy the rama pasta
A beefy % attack, Aphro is very good (ideally not common), or you can go for Artemis because crits, any high rarity % attack can do except Poseidon (avoid that one), for the Special you want flat damage, it's not hard to come by, usually not worth forcing tho, Ares Dio Zeus are the main ones, you can go for Demeter and try to get Killing freeze, it can work pretty well, for the Dash there arent many options because most of them are either anti-synergy or just dont do anything, Artemis however is probably the best in slot dash, because Rama relies on dash strikes and getting dash strike damage is just good, Athena is a good one too because deflecting is nice, another important thing for Rama is hammers, ideally you want Triple Shot or Twin Shot for your first hammer, if not offered you can go for Perfect or Point Blank, and for the second hammer you usually want Perfect or Point Blank (assuming Triple or Twin first) but the order can be the other way here, if you get Perfect Shot as first hammer then it's fine too, hammers to avoid are Sniper shot (blocks Twins shot) and also doesnt do anything, and Repulse shot, Explosive is a bit of an odd one, it's nice in some scenarios but hard to play, Chain shot is okay, wont do much in bosses. Rama is difficult and needs practice but it's really good when it comes to heat especially, it's a good idea to watch vods of people who are good at it and try to implement their movement and decision making in your runs
white cave
Does anyone know if phalanx shot with Hera bow still gives backstabs or did they patch it?
proper furnace
Still does
white cave
Thanks I'm gonna try it out
white cave
I think so
valid dagger
Rama needs no duos
If you happen to come across the right gods, Smoldering Air is a good one
tight basin
i got ares and aphrodite duo last night with rama in tartarus lmao completely useless but funny
lucid prairie
So I know there's some strategy that makes Battie the best offensive pet
over Mort
dreamy prism
that's right
lucid prairie
But... how do you do it
iron barn
is it not just because the lower delay is more consistent
dreamy prism
But... how do you do it
it's kinda encounter specific
lucid prairie
I saw a video of someone using Battie to melt The Champions
dreamy prism
meg is usually used vs specific miniboss and boss encounters
in which case there are steps to make her get max value
eg vs the champions the way to do it is to press up as soon as the fight starts and summon her
then she whacks both consistently
lucid prairie
does that work on extreme heat champions too?
dreamy prism
with mort it's impossible to guarantee he'll land the hit especially with FO2 on
sure thing
iron barn
power couple too right
lucid prairie
cos Theseus is just up and out of there as soon as the fight starts
dreamy prism
yep meg lands before heroes can even move
lucid prairie
oh sick
dreamy prism
also the speed is such a massive deal
take the middle management butterfly ball miniboss
dreamy prism
the best way to deal with it is to meg the armor then blow it up before it teleports a bunch
strange lark
but the witches meg is a little outdated
dreamy prism
mort just straight up can't hit the butterfly ball with any consistency
proper furnace
Nah
lucid prairie
Nope
dreamy prism
antos always tries to hit two different things though
lucid prairie
I tried using Antos over Mort before trying Battie
dreamy prism
antos is generally considered second best companion for high heat
lucid prairie
specifically because Hades is usually my only real struggle
dreamy prism
so good choice
iron barn
antos is guaranteed hit too right
dreamy prism
yeah antos can out damage meg and has a 0% chance of missing
lucid prairie
antos is generally considered second best companion for high heat
does 35 count as "high"
dreamy prism
absolutely
dreamy prism
although I still run meg even at 50
strange lark
most high heat runners use meg
there are some who use mort and antos tho
and by some i mean i can name like 2 people
lucid prairie
can I also ask: is there any guaranteed way to dodge the Minotaur's charge on FO2 outside of Hermes buffs
strange lark
could dash through a pillar
lucid prairie
could dash through a pillar
I was about to say
strange lark
use theseus as an obstacle for asterius
lucid prairie
I tried this
strange lark
dash past him while against a wall
lucid prairie
but then he simply went... around the pillar
dreamy prism
can I also ask: is there any guaranteed way to dodge the Minotaur's charge on FO...
pray
strange lark
probably dashed too early
dreamy prism
I get hit by that attack like 90% of the time lol
strange lark
but yeah its a hard attack to dodge
iron barn
divine protection
dreamy prism
you need to dash as late as possible I guess
but these days I often just small call through charge
free iframes
lucid prairie
also are there any tells for when Asterius is about to do the really quick two slashes
as opposed to the two slashes -> jump attack(s)
lucid prairie
Sometimes he only does the first two and it comes out faster than when he does the two and then the jump
dreamy prism
I've seen that but I always assumed the slashes were the same speed
don't think there's a tell
lucid prairie
understood
lucid prairie
^^^
I do have two more questions
For EM4, just before the labyrinth, is it more optimal to choose Cerberus' Collar or Lucky Tooth, assuming a person has all 3 death defiances beforehand
strange lark
neither take acorn
iron barn
cerberus is 125 health
plain river
You get +50 hp then 25 more on each defiance use but yeah acorn better
iron barn
tooth is 100
strange lark
acorn can go up to 400 hp
strange lark
blocks first five hits of a bossfight
plain river
Stops you from taking first 5 instances of damage
plain river
Unless you’ven’t gotten it leveled up
lucid prairie
I do not but I'll put in the work for it
tawny fern
What should I go for when using Zeus Shield?
lucid prairie
Zeus Special and I personally like Ares Attack
tawny fern
Start with Zeus on special?
strange lark
yes
lucid prairie
or Aphro attack
strange lark
ares, dio, dem, and aphro attack are all good
tawny fern
Thanks
plain river
Hammerwise explosive return good
tawny fern
And what about Gilgamesh fists?
strange lark
switch to demeter
random relic
lmao
plain river
Gilgamesh is merciful end
strange lark
or that
lucid prairie
And what about Gilgamesh fists?
Ares special
random relic
for gilga you just do ME yeah
plain river
Bo
strange lark
thats the opposite of what you want
plain river
Doom strike
lucid prairie
ohhhhhh yeah no that makes more sense actually
plain river
Athena dash and special
random relic
ares attack, athena special, athena dash, ME, impending doom, lots of poms
you need all that for a good ME build
proper furnace
Can do tidal dash only too
tawny fern
athena special and area attack?
random relic
literally no exceptions lol
proper furnace
Also use ruthless reflex on mirror with it
plain river
ruthless reflex
plain river
Well
random relic
gilga gives 2 dashes
proper furnace
Gilga has +2 dashes by default
tawny fern
Ooooh
strange lark
just get more from hermes
tawny fern
Thanks.
random relic
so you get 3 bad dashes vs 4 bad dashes
lucid prairie
also for Chiron bow is it just aphro attack, artemis special, and heart rend?
strange lark
yeah
dreamy prism
For EM4, just before the labyrinth, is it more optimal to choose Cerberus' Colla...
you can also consider spearpoint
lucid prairie
is there anything else I need to know
strange lark
so you get 3 bad dashes vs 4 bad dashes
3 decent dashes vs 4 bad dashes
plain river
or dio special is also an option
tawny fern
Thanks for the help, y'all.
random relic
3 decent dashes vs 4 bad dashes
oh yeah oops
plain river
or dio special is also an option
Still aphro attack (talkking about chiron
random relic
3 moderately good dashes vs 4 very very bad dashes
proper furnace
is there anything else I need to know
Chaos boons, concetrated volley, epic swift flourish are all good
lucid prairie
I've never actually used or seen the duo boon for aphro/dio
dreamy prism
this is relentless volley erasure
lucid prairie
what exactly does it do
lucid prairie
this is relentless volley erasure
I like this one more
proper furnace
+3 max hangover stack if enemy has weak
random relic
which one is relentless/concentrated?
proper furnace
I mean i also like relentless but not over conc volley lol
lucid prairie
which one is relentless/concentrated?
relentless +4 arrows
plain river
Relentless is better if you have concentrated
proper furnace
which one is relentless/concentrated?
+4 special/+3 dmg per special arrow that hits
lucid prairie
concentrated +3 damage for each consecutive hit
random relic
ah yeah conc is always better than relentless, no matter the build
dreamy prism
concentrated is gaming
proper furnace
ah yeah conc is always better than relentless, no matter the build
Unless you are using low lvl chiron, for whatever reason
dreamy prism
ah yeah conc is always better than relentless, no matter the build
how come rama never uses conc then
checkmate
random relic
Unless you are using low lvl chiron, for whatever reason
ok well like
random relic
how come rama never uses conc then
hmmm
lucid prairie
is there any specific cast I should use?
dreamy prism
eh low level chiron is good for new players
I used it a lot for early hell mode clears
random relic
yo conc relentless special only rama sounds awesome
lucid prairie
I always end up never having a cast, even by labyrinth
proper furnace
yo conc relentless special only rama sounds awesome
Guess what hammer you cant get
dreamy prism
supergiant is a coward for not letting us conc rama
proper furnace
I always end up never having a cast, even by labyrinth
Dw about it on chiron
dreamy prism
I always end up never having a cast, even by labyrinth
on non cast builds that's expected
proper furnace
Base cast is enough to apply boiling blood
dreamy prism
it can be worth filling cast at some point to stop getting offered casts though
plain river
I pick up arte cast if I have aphro attack and dio special on chiron
random relic
most runs i never fill cast lol
dreamy prism
true shot best non cast build cast tbh
plain river
I pick up arte cast if I have aphro attack and dio special on chiron
or dio attack aphro special demeter
dreamy prism
I love it
plain river
purely for the duos
random relic
true shot best non cast build cast tbh
depends on build
proper furnace
If you have troubles on styx with chiron you can use good old flood shot + breaking wave
random relic
flood shot is super good for styx shredder
strange lark
Phalanx best cast
random relic
but yeah flood shot and true shot are like the only good ones
proper furnace
I like phalanx the most if im not jsing a cast build
random relic
i feel like the rest are downgrades
lucid prairie
i feel like the rest are downgrades
zeus?
plain river
Arte cast purely for duos with dio/aphro
dreamy prism
athena's fine imo
dreamy prism
it's slow but you can sorta combo with it as it travels
random relic
athena has problems if the enemy moves
strange lark
Just aim better
random relic
hmm
proper furnace
Is a big deflect hitbox, just point blank it
lucid prairie
Cries after tart
it's still useful after tartarus
dreamy prism
someone make a non cast build cast tier list tbh
lucid prairie
I mean, think of the rats and the flame wheels
random relic
someone make a non cast build cast tier list tbh
i mean nothing is in s tier lol
proper furnace
Most dashes can do that as well
dreamy prism
if you have to cast vs rats something has gone really wrong
proper furnace
Even divine dash
random relic
dude i love walking into a room with skullstacks and shredding it with dying lament
lucid prairie
if you have to cast vs rats something has gone really wrong
LOOK
strange lark
Rats and their 1hp hard
proper furnace
dude i love walking into a room with skullstacks and shredding it with dying lam...
Dying lament 
lucid prairie
Rats and their 1hp hard
you don't understand
random relic
dying lament is so gamer
dreamy prism
the only time I feel like you'd have to do that is like arthur without damage dash
plain river
Dc2 rats versus chiron who wins
lucid prairie
it takes 3 HITS to kill 'em
dreamy prism
oh yeah chiron
proper furnace
it takes 3 HITS to kill 'em
Are you using dc2
lucid prairie
yeah
plain river
strange lark
Just don't use dc2
dreamy prism
DC2 gaming
strange lark
Lmao
lucid prairie
isn't that like the easiest heat?
strange lark
No
proper furnace
No
random relic
no
dreamy prism
No
proper furnace
Dc sucks
plain river
Em2 is the easiest heat
dreamy prism
DC sucks don't buy it
lucid prairie
it's only hard to me specifically because of the rats and flame wheels
random relic
dc i dont take until 40+ most of the time
strange lark
Td1 is easiest heat
dreamy prism
RI1 is easiest heat
lucid prairie
What do I take instead of DC then :(
proper furnace
In words of Nyaanyaa "acorn is the best defensive keeosake and you are giving 2 charges of it to every enemy"
dreamy prism
lol that's a good one
proper furnace
RI1 is easiest heat
Found the olympian favor player
random relic
What do I take instead of DC then :(
em1-2, td1-3, uc, mm, bp1
those are usually easy
strange lark
UC below 32
lucid prairie
I'm at 35 those all done already
plain river
In words of Nyaanyaa "acorn is the best defensive keeosake and you are giving 2 ...
Achilles spear point best defensive keepsake
random relic
ah at 35
strange lark
Em4
proper furnace
Ri3
strange lark
Easiest heat
dreamy prism
bad
random relic
use sd
strange lark
NO HEALING????????
lucid prairie
oh you're joking
proper furnace
Sd gaming
proper furnace
Lc4 is meta even at 32
lucid prairie
SD?
random relic
no actually lc4 is good
strange lark
oh you're joking
No we are not joking
proper furnace
Stubborn defiance
strange lark
It's the high heat meta
plain river
Stubborn defiancep
lucid prairie
I will die to Hades.
random relic
alternate side of death defiance on mirror
dreamy prism
yeah dad is less fun on SD
lucid prairie
So, so fast.
proper furnace
I will die to Hades.
Practice your bossing
dreamy prism
you need to be good at dad or hope for patty
proper furnace
Or get dds from athena/patty
random relic
sd is free if you get patty
lucid prairie
what does touch of styx do
random relic
patty makes it heal for 80% hp instead of 30%
dreamy prism
it breaks the game
dreamy prism
both are instant takes
random relic
yeah
strange lark
Me when most recent Zeus 62 takes jerky
random relic
id sell my soul for 1 regular tos lmao
dreamy prism
honestly touch of styx is lowkey the best well item
proper furnace
And they last all for +10 encounters even without charon keepsake
dreamy prism
I take it 100% of the time and can't say that for any other item
random relic
yeah lol
lucid prairie
wait I've got it
random relic
ill sell an extra boon between biomes sometimes just to get it lol
lucid prairie
I'll increase HL to 5 and TD to 1
proper furnace
Td0 gaming?
dreamy prism
damn homie were you a TD0 gamer
strange lark
You weren't doing that before?????
random relic
bruh
proper furnace
Were you using jury summons and cp?
lucid prairie
no...
dreamy prism
TD worst heat
lucid prairie
Were you using jury summons and cp?
yeah
strange lark
Was this like a td0 AP2 em4 pact
random relic
calisthenics program is one of the worst pacts in the game
lucid prairie
calisthenics program is one of the worst pacts in the game
wait seriously?
dreamy prism
yeah CP is awful
random relic
it sucks, means you didnt pass
lucid prairie
calisthenics seems easy enough
dreamy prism
you don't take it until 50 heat usually
lucid prairie
WHAT
random relic
yeah
lucid prairie
actually can I just take a picture of my heat loadout and send it here
random relic
i take at 45 just because its forced for hell mode
proper furnace
Cp2 is prob a bit higher no?
random relic
actually can I just take a picture of my heat loadout and send it here
yes, you have to send a link though
dreamy prism
honestly if you're doing 35 heat with JS3 CP2 DC2 you're kinda a god gamer
random relic
like post it on a private discord and paste the link here
proper furnace
honestly if you're doing 35 heat with JS3 CP2 DC2 you're kinda a god gamer
^ this
lucid prairie
honestly if you're doing 35 heat with JS3 CP2 DC2 you're kinda a god gamer
I haven't managed to do that yet
strange lark
Wonder why
lucid prairie
I just did 32 with FO1 instead
proper furnace
I guess is also more "chill" without time restrain
dreamy prism
some people have a psychological block when any timer shows up
lucid prairie
some people have a psychological block when any timer shows up
me :(
dreamy prism
so even TD1 is bad until they get used to it
proper furnace
Td tbh sounds way worse till you actually try it lol
dreamy prism
but it's so worth taking the time to conquer the timer fear
proper furnace
And turn off js/cp
random relic
yeah js also kinda bad
dreamy prism
JS is less damaging than CP but not recommended for below 40 heat
random relic
^^^
dreamy prism
unless you're on certain aspects that don't care about JS
random relic
you dont take js3 until like 50+ lol
dreamy prism
uh oh
random relic
usually
proper furnace
On chiron dc sounds good but is legit bad
dreamy prism
I was a JS3 at 40 gamer
random relic
yeah i think i did 45 js3 but its not recommended
dreamy prism
JS overhated
lucid prairie
i've been doing something wrong
proper furnace
No 
strange lark
People really be runnin js3 cp2 and wonder why they can't do td
random relic
i've been doing something wrong
dw most people do lol
lucid prairie
TD1 seems reeeeally easy though
proper furnace
It is
random relic
td seems bad but time carries over between biomes and the existence of a timer naturally pushes you to be faster
dreamy prism
you obviously have the skills to make TD2 completely irrelevant
so that's 3 literal free heat that you have to change nothing for
random relic
yeah js3 and cp2 make everything so much slower lol
dreamy prism
tbh I think DC is usually more damaging than JS and even CP1
since it burns so much tart time vs those big rooms that spawn super weak stuff in a trickle
lucid prairie
since it burns so much tart time vs those big rooms that spawn super weak stuff ...
i once took a screenshot and counted 36
36 SKULLS
strange lark
Js3 moment
dreamy prism
all the homies hate unarmored skull rooms
strange lark
Speeder cloner rooms are fast
proper furnace
You die
lucid prairie
oh wait you guys named them?
strange lark
I like those on most aspects
lucid prairie
the benefits package buffs I mean
strange lark
oh wait you guys named them?
They already have names
random relic
oh wait you guys named them?
nah theyre bp perks
random relic
They already have names
^^^
dreamy prism
they also show up in the fated list thing
lucid prairie
Alright so I can’t find the picture of the loadout I use now
But I do have the one I used for 32
strange lark
Ok uhhhh
lucid prairie
so just imagine 2 FO
iron barn
funny pact
strange lark
So you are using 50 heat pacts at 35 heat
random relic
thats a hard pact lol
strange lark
Actually 55 heat pacts
dreamy prism
that's a really really hard pact
proper furnace
Olympian favor gaming
lucid prairie
So you are using 50 heat pacts at 35 heat
I thought they were EASIER
random relic
lmao
dreamy prism
ok make like 5 changes and you'll be chilling for easy 40 heat
strange lark
Yeah you could probably beat 40 heat now
random relic
standard 32 is hl1 lc4 em3 mm uc bp2 td3 fo2
lucid prairie
I thought it was like a normal thing to put EM4 on after 9 heat
strange lark
No em4 is bad
dreamy prism
it's fun and pretty chill for low heat
proper furnace
Em4 is yikes
lucid prairie
I mean, I KNOW it’s bad
strange lark
Need to be really skilled gamer like me to beat it
lucid prairie
I hate first phase
proper furnace
Fun if you wanna do the challenge but i suggest not trying lol
lucid prairie
But like, I thought it was just.. optimal or something like that
dreamy prism
at the 32-50 range it's probably worth like 6 heat
strange lark
No it's optimal for some aspects at 50 heat
random relic
em4 is so hard lol
dreamy prism
chiron likes it I believe
strange lark
No
dreamy prism
:(
lucid prairie
Chiron likes what, EM4?
proven osprey
Chiron is alright at EM4
proper furnace
Chiron high heat 🗿
strange lark
Chiron in general 🗿
dreamy prism
chiron was good at EM4 I figured
strange lark
Too slow
lucid prairie
It feels good for EM4
proper furnace
I like it for em4 alone
random relic
chiron is one of the... better? aspect for em4
dreamy prism
of all the aspects I would put EM4 on for mid high heat for beowulf and chiron first
lucid prairie
heart rend shreds a-plenty
random relic
but em4 is em4
proper furnace
But the rest of the run is eh
proven osprey
its weaknesses are like, everything else
lucid prairie
My whole run is spent preparing for EM4 and not much else
proper furnace
Reaching styx without aoe on chiron is pain
random relic
thats what happens in em4 pacts
lucid prairie
i usually either die somewhere in Elysium or at the boss itself
strange lark
You could just like... Not worry about that
dreamy prism
I would still stay away from EM4 especially since you're def not used to handling superdad on SD
random relic
in normal 32 pacts champions are like the peak of difficulty in the run lol
dreamy prism
hence why EM2 is meta
random relic
after that its relatively smooth sailing
dreamy prism
for legal reasons that's a joke
lucid prairie
I would still stay away from EM4 especially since you're def not used to handlin...
I’ve used DD for my entire playthrough of Hades
dreamy prism
SD will take some getting used to then
random relic
yeah
dreamy prism
but you'll find it's ridiculously powerful
tight basin
Lc4 and sd right
lucid prairie
HL5 LC4 CF2 JS0 EM3 CP0 UC FO2 DC0 TD3
just gonna reply to this so I can find it a little later
actually I’ll apply it now
dreamy prism
I use SD so much that I sometimes just tank DD runs by being reckless in a way that SD patches up
random relic
remember with sd: you can pop it near the end of an encounter to go into the next room with 30% and an sd
lucid prairie
is SD the only change I need to make to my mirror of night?
dreamy prism
SD lets you literally meme around in tart and aspho
random relic
is SD the only change I need to make to my mirror of night?
use dark foresight
dreamy prism
is SD the only change I need to make to my mirror of night?
you'll also want dark foresight over olympian favor
proper furnace
Use dark foresight
dreamy prism
lol
random relic
it will make your life a dream
strange lark
And no pstatus
random relic
its so good
proper furnace
Opposire of olympian favor
random relic
^^
lucid prairie
oh what
dreamy prism
oh yeah you're running heart rend which hates privileged status
proper furnace
+20% for gold laurel rooms
dreamy prism
run family favorite for sure
proper furnace
+20% for gold laurel rooms
So more chance for gold/poms/boons/hearts/hammers
tight basin
Heart rend is arty and aphro right
You're only inflicting 1 status effect
random relic
yeah heart rend chiron doesnt get 2 status effects very often
tight basin
Consistently anyways
strange lark
Family favorite is better for 99% of builds
dreamy prism
sad
random relic
none of those inflict status effects
proper furnace
Thats 2 extra boons you need
dreamy prism
family favorite also comes online immediately
you'll often have +15% vs furies alone
which is op for arty special on chiron
random relic
pstatus is good on builds on dio chiron or passion flare beo
tight basin
Boiling blood is also only noticeable/effective against bosses because you'll be using the same amount of shots on normal enemies anyways
dreamy prism
it's also the meta for DC64
lucid prairie
you'll often have +15% vs furies alone
it’s each Olympian
proper furnace
Boiling blood is also only noticeable/effective against bosses because you'll be...
Armored enemies still helps
tight basin
So you won't be using the cast on normal enemies that much to inflict the status
proper furnace
Like louts/other big enemies
tight basin
Armored enemies still helps
True I guess
proper furnace
But yeah you dont apply ps on normal enemies a lot unless you have 2 status by default
dreamy prism
I think shadow is good
proper furnace
I feel they are equal
random relic
oh ok
lucid prairie
alright so changed DD for SD, PS for FF and OF for DF
dreamy prism
gamer mirror
random relic
good mirror
lucid prairie
great
dreamy prism
the last thing that can switch is infernal vs stygian soul
but just personal preference, each has advantages
proper furnace
Ah yeah before you practice sd, gotta learn about getting dds from athena with it