h1-builds-and-combat

[long escarp]

Obviously this can’t be proven

[quick rapids]

so we have an agreement, a build is in the eye of the beholder

[long escarp]

You’re not gonna go to the dictionary and it says “a build is the collection of boons a character has and is not related to their health”

[quick rapids]

but do you agree yo this?

[long escarp]

Idk exactly what you mean by “in the eye of the beholder”

[quick rapids]

like what the definition is

like the phrase, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

[long escarp]

I think the definition of “build” is subjective, and in my opinion your amount of HP is in no way related to your build because that’s not at all what the word build means to me

And I’d argue that most people I know in the community use build to describe your boons not your health

[quick rapids]

That makes sense

that genuinely makes sense

[long escarp]

“Heartbreak Strike, Zeus Call, Smoldering Air” is a build.
“200hp” is not a build

[strange lark]

Honestly can't tell if you're joking or not

[quick rapids]

do you want me to be

[strange lark]

Yes

[quick rapids]

then i am

[strange lark]

Because that argument kinda ass

[quick rapids]

alright fine

i concede

[strange lark]

Good

Don't wanna pull out the 🔫

[quick rapids]

sir, there is no need to get violent. you can keep 🔫 in your pocket

[strange lark]

Don't tempt me 😤

[quick rapids]

maybe i want to

[tawny grove]

what would be the best weapon for an all artemis run

[quick rapids]

well, i like something quick like zag fists. but im not very good so dont take my advice to heart

[long escarp]

No

Lmao

[proper furnace]

Zag bow/nem with the innate crit ig?

[long escarp]

Do you have access to the speedrun modpack?

[proper furnace]

Chiron also does rlly well

[tawny grove]

nope

[long escarp]

I’d say Chiron, Zag bow, Nemesis, SpreadFire ZagRail

[tawny grove]

unmodded for me

i was thinking nem yeah

already used chiron for all aphro ages ago so i dont think ill reuse it

zag bow is on brand with her though

[dapper surge]

Any tips on using the aspect of Arthur? It feels very awkward to use and I don't know how to fight bosses without getting hit

[tawny grove]

big % attack

aphrodite is the best option

[dapper surge]

I'm using aphrodite

Everything takes the big attack and has less than 10 health left

[long escarp]

Sounds like you need a pom on your attack or some better rarity maybe

[dapper surge]

Bone-rakers (blue skeleton dudes) are hitting me in the middle of my attack, how do people not hate this

[long escarp]

Dash

You can dash during your attack combo

[dapper surge]

I know

[long escarp]

Well that’s how you deal with bone rakers

[dapper surge]

So I accidentally made a backstab build where each third hit did 1,160 damage if it was a backstab and it made the last fight awkward but easy

[turbid needle]

oh arthy

[cunning urchin]

I'd agree with that. A tank build typically relies on stacking HP (at least up to a point) on top of damage reduction and dodge chance. For a majority of builds, HP is far less relevant though especially when you're just looking to maximize DPS.

[graceful smelt]

whats a good Beowulf build

[tidal shard]

That the cast shield? Probably either Dionysus Trippy Flare or Poseidon Flood Flare, pom your cast to hell, maybe if you use Flood Flare also pick up Artemis and try for mirage shot duo boon to further increase cast damage. Regardless, going for Artemis' legendary to get extra cast, and chaos for extra cast damage or ammo is always good.

[proper furnace]

Dont bother with fully loaded most of the time

Too hard to get and you cant get one of the requisites on beo

Mirage shot is priority on flood flare tho

Due to the bug it doubles your dmg

On trippy you also want mirage and also swapping to stygian soul (so also wants extra casts)

On top of Chaos casts there is also charon wells (so charon keepsake can be great value)

Passion flare + snow burst with priv stat is also great

[digital turtle]

bank on crit and go zag bow

[turbid needle]

What is the best weapon/build to farm/progress quickly?

[long escarp]

There are best builds for speed

[wary lantern]

true

[long escarp]

Just use a speedrun build I guess

[worn solar]

beo, achilles, and eris are great for farming darkness

[feral night]

really anything that can go fast that poseidon could help (you want ocean's bounty)

[plucky hemlock]

Pick Malphon and just keep dash attacking

Preferably Demeter’s aspect

[quick rapids]

thank you

[slim ice]

what're the builds for guan yu?

[long escarp]

Heartbreak flourish, charged skewer

Stack as much chaos special damage as possible

[red rock]

sorry if I'm interrupting, but just gotta share here, with the bow, point blank shot, and twin shot together is amazing, zag bow fully upgraded with Artemis boons.

[unreal tree]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/908168128750567456.gif?size=48

perfect shot is usually better than point blank but yeah

[turbid needle]

Is there any boss killer build?

[long escarp]

What

Isn’t every single build with good damage a “boss killer build”

[worn solar]

[turbid needle]

What build have good damage lol

I'm pretty new still

[worn solar]

uhhh a lot

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide idk

[shell sleet]

ik im very late but im p sure survivability charms are rated lower because charms like shamans and unbreak strength are so strong and killing your enemies faster helps you survive more anyways

not like unbreak heart or carefree melody are bad though

[long escarp]

CFM sucks

But yeah Shaman, Strength, QS, and MoP are way too good

And SBody

Those charms are actually so good that defensive charms just aren’t worth considering

[unreal tree]

Name a more iconic duo

Pancake and acronyms no one uses

[long escarp]

People absolutely use these acronyms

I actually did not come up with a single one of them

Just picked them up from the HK community

[shell sleet]

cfm good in pantheon

especially in the later fights that hit for 2 masks per hit

[lucid oar]

Wayward compass is the best charm tbh

[shell sleet]

compass broken

too OP

[shell cargo]

i thought this was a hades build channel 😂 not HK

[tired crypt]

Can anyone help me with using the aspect of Arthur?

Cuz it works a bit different from traditional sword aspects and I don’t know if there are better ways of using it

[valid dagger]

You can focus on your dash strikes with dedge or just swing and learn to like drag the swing across rooms because you can dash between each part of it

With Shadow Slash

[tired crypt]

So like between each chunky swing dash just before it hits

[valid dagger]

Well if it doesn’t benefit you then you don’t have to, but if your first swing kills whatever is in front of you, and there’s another enemy a bit further in the room, you can dash then continue with the second swing, instead of starting the combo again

[tired crypt]

Ah alright
Also what about his aura

[valid dagger]

The Aura is cool, I mostly try to keep it between me and the bosses, and you can also use it to block traps (works against lava), in normal rooms you don’t use it as much unless it’s a more difficult encounter where you’re scared of dying etc, sometimes it can mess with your muscle memory by making things a lot slower, especially projectiles

[tired crypt]

Thanks for the info, very helpful

[valid dagger]

It’s also a good idea to watch vods

Because I think Arthur movement and combo chaining isn’t as intuitive

Magnil has some nice stuff, Bablo also got WR with it a few days ago

[tired crypt]

Alrighty

[long escarp]

Lmao it’s not

[feral night]

is it used for anything besides modded bosses that do a million billion damage?

[shell sleet]

wym yes it is

[lucid oar]

What does that one do

[feral night]

randomly prevents taking damage from hits

[long escarp]

3 notches to maybe prevent damage

Yeah I’ll definitely consider that over a flat 50% damage increase

[shell sleet]

lol im not saying its better than the best charm in the game obviously

doesnt mean its bad

its "bad" in the sense that when you take it you cant use 3 out of strength QS MoP Shamans

[long escarp]

It’s bad for the same reason that divine and frost strike are bad

Using them gives up damage

Although in HK you’re giving up way more damage

Obviously the effect is good, but the cost is ludicrously high

[random relic]

yeah defensive charms in hk are not very good

carefree melody does actually have a few good uses though

the rest of them on the other hand...

i think carefree melody averages out to about 23 percent of the time you wont take damage which actually isnt awful

it sees most use in modded bosses though

[long escarp]

AnyRad

[random relic]

that is one indeed

[red rock]

I'm curious what dark mirror abilities others use. I'd like to post a screenshot of the mirror list I use rather than typing it all out, but it seems #h1-victory-boasting is the only place for such pics.

[errant narwhal]

you can post links from image hosting sites and they will embed, like imgur or from other discord servers

[long escarp]

Head on over to #optimal-discussion #h1-high-heat-strategies

Also you can send it in another server and then copy and paste here

[red rock]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/675464920627937280/969072532969893928/20220427144315_1.jpg

[worn solar]

for normal runs generally best to use greatest reflex and always use dark foresight for 4th and 10th talents instead of ruthless amd favor

[red rock]

I don't feel I need the extra dodges to get out of the way of most stuff and this gives more damage
also I'd rather take the 40% chance at an epic boon, than 20% for a legendary.

[worn solar]

no thats gods pride vs legacy

if you want to get through rooms quickly greatest is still much better for most weapons. dashes are important offensively for both moving quickly and lining up enemies, and dash strikes are generally better dps than standing strikes

[red rock]

not looking to go too fast tho yet, not speed running or anything

[worn solar]

well anyways darkforesight instead of olympian favour is more important to get more boons and other gold laurels

[long escarp]

You literally always want Dark Foresight

It’s so so so so good

So good

Actually busted

[red rock]

sure you get more, but it is not as good
A case of quality over quantity.

[long escarp]

#h1-discussion message

[long escarp]

NOOOOO

Not this argument

Please no

Extremely bad argument

[red rock]

Gonna be honest here

[long escarp]

Dark Foresight means more poms, more chances at legendary and duo boons, more health

[red rock]

how commited you are

to all this

about dark foresight

versus olympina favor

is just makes me wanna troll you

seeing you get so worked up over it

[long escarp]

Gonna be honest here

Hearing you say that makes me automatically think you’re a crappy person and I kinda want to block you on the spot 🗿

[red rock]

ohh legendries like 20% more fish. Wouldn't want to miss out on that

[long escarp]

Not even a good troll

Wow at least try goddamn

Lmao

[red rock]

cause that wasn't trolling

[long escarp]

Yes the double down. Everyone who wasn’t rolling on the floor now certainly must be

Nothing is funnier than saying something that’s obviously meant as a joke and then doubling down on it in order to completely halt the conversation

[red rock]

I can see people are long since cemented in their oh so objective opinions here on this
Literally that is all the legendary boon huge catch is
If I was actually going to troll you, would I tell you?

[long escarp]

So, am I not understanding correctly or did you just say that the legendary boon huge catch increases your odds of seeing fish by 20% but in literally the most confusing and cryptic way possible

Because yes I am aware of what the boon huge catch does

[worn solar]

wut

[red rock]

like I'm trying to read your argument you linked back to to #h1-discussion but don't even know what
Without DF: 5/5 gold to purple
With DF: 7/3 gold to purple
means, namely the numbers and gold to purple. I get DF stands for Dark Foresight.

[long escarp]

What

Gold laurel rewards

Without dark foresight, you get 50% gold laurel rewards and 50% purple laurel rewards. With dark foresight you get 70% gold laurel rewards and 30% purple laurel rewards

[worn solar]

gold laurels are boons, poms, hammers, obols, and hearts

[long escarp]

Basically DF increases the number of useful rewards you get by 40%

[worn solar]

dark is darkness, gems, nectar, keys

[long escarp]

Quality over quantity is not a sensical argument because in this game quantity is quality. You can have a rare lvl2 Zeus attack boon or you can have a common lvl4 Zeus attack boon with jolted and the legendary and also more hp too

More boons and poms = more damage and safety

[red rock]

huh, well like I said before, not really speed running yet, still upgrading the mirror itself and the house, so I still want purple rewards.
Once I finish that though, then looks like switching to dark foresight might be better, for runs.
Well is a rare lvl2 Zeus attack boon better, worse or same as a common lvl4 Zeus attack boon?
Those level of rewards too, you are comparing 1 room reward to like 5 rooms rewards

[long escarp]

To say Dark Foresight is much better than Olympian Favor is an extreme understatement. Dark Foresight is broken. It is literally so strong that every single build that uses it is massively stronger. I cannot overstate how good it is regardless of context

[worn solar]

well darkness/gem rewards from rooms is pretty insignificant. dark foresight will generally speed up your runs which means you can get a lot more resources with it

[red rock]

It's description in game, in the mirror does not seem to do it justice.

[worn solar]

well its does tell you exactly what it does other than that the 20% is an additive chance which is way better than a multiple

[long escarp]

I agree, it does not. Because the mirror says 20% when it’s actually 40%

[red rock]

and the whole purple V gold thing

[worn solar]

well its does have the symbols shown for all the gold laurel rewards in the description

[long escarp]

It literally tells you what a gold laurel is in the description of the mirror talent

[long escarp]

I’m not 100% sure of this number but I believe that DF is equal to about 8 extra gold laurel rooms on average

[red rock]

again though, you are giving up rare boons and stuff to upgrade the house for more golds

[long escarp]

More rare boons sucks

Does very little

You’re really not giving up much

And the rewards from purple doors are so minuscule

Gemstone door gives you 5 gemstones. Killing Hades with Vanquisher’s keep gives 50 gemstones (and the other bosses combined is another 60)

Darkness door gives you 10 darkness. Killing all 4 bosses gives 550

Getting DF to greatly increase your clear times (and consistency) will do way way more for your farming efforts

[red rock]

well like any good scientist, gotta test that theory myself now. One more run with Olympus, then one with Dark Foresight, see which I get more on.

[long escarp]

Do you think every scientist tests every single study themself? They read about a study and immediately say “well in order to believe it I have to test that theory myself” and then go off and completely recreate the study just to see it for themself?

[red rock]

sadly stuff is not as peer reviewed as it should be, but that is getting too irl here now
This test will only take about an hour

[tight basin]

i mean i used to not use dark foresight and i switched and i'm not regretting it lol

lower rarity can be a bummer at times but better boon combos and whatnot is much better

[worn solar]

well not that you cant do two random runs but yeah its just two runs lol

olympian favor would be a lot cooler if rarity scaled poms

[tawny grove]

chill mate you dont need argue with everything

[long escarp]

It was a joke

[worn solar]

but then not getting purples would kinda be oof

pretty aggressive joke tbh

[red rock]

thank you my point in the beginning.

[long escarp]

Fair

My bad

For the unnecessarily harsh wording

A better phrasing of the same joke would have been “not sure if that’s how science works “

[red rock]

alls forgiven.
I know I got awfully sarcastic there too

[red rock]

also just realized, that is if I'm not getting drops like titans blood anymore
For context, I'm on about heat 10 with most weapons

[long escarp]

Well you did say you’re farming darkness no?

[red rock]

farming that and blood/diamonds/ambrosia

[worn solar]

well if youre doing heat youre getting low darkness regardless. and anyways faster runs means you get that outta the way faster

[long escarp]

If you want darkness, you should be doing heat lower than your bounties require

If you still want bounties then you’re gonna get darkness extremely slowly anyway

The difference between 30 darkness and 40 is really not significant

I still think the funniest pro-OF argument I ever heard was someone saying they run OF so they can get more keys for rerolls to get good boons

[red rock]

lol that said, I'm using Demeters fists for the first time and am doing a no heat run for it, to test it. so far, not a fan, in asphodel

[long escarp]

Of what fists or DF

[red rock]

fists

[long escarp]

Yeah me neither

[red rock]

well, while I'm playing thru how about another heated debated
best keepsakes/companions?

[worn solar]

generally god keepsake for tart/aspho and survivability ones for elysium/styx

can take hourglass in ely/styx or sigil, purse or another god keepsake if no trouble surviving

also 🥚is good in all circumstances

[long escarp]

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/A_MBoz7H54jqULKDaRzBZzL1SMnLAV5gdVGRzqhm_mI/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/868852801663565824/945504541082779728/553F218A-3D5C-4E5E-85B4-6682FC9B0042.jpg

In terms of companions, only Meg is really worth using imo

[worn solar]

uh and meg is the most used for heat/speedruns since shes fast and big damage and can hit a lot of enemies at the same time in miniboss rooms theres even meg setup guides

[red rock]

ya I've done that a few times to get the build I want
I also really like the coin purse and broken shackle at the start
then the pom blossom becomes my go to, improve those boons

[worn solar]

sometimes antos is used in high heat with like melee weapons since alecto can be a pain

[long escarp]

Likes pom blossom but doesn’t use dark foresight

[red rock]

makes up for not having it

[long escarp]

Not really

[worn solar]

pom blossom usually not used since you only usually need like 1-2 poms on important boons and it gets more random whether it hits something useful or not later in the run

[red rock]

ya I know the more poms you get the less effective the upgrade gets, so sometimes I'll ditch it by styx, for a better boss fighting one, the tooth if I've lost a death save, or skull erring, broken spear or acorn.

[long escarp]

But pom blossom only gives 1 pom in Aspho

And maybe 2 in Ely but only if you’re lucky (or really if you’re unlucky)

[worn solar]

its more consistent with hangover

or cast boons

[red rock]

what, its one pom every four rooms, right?

[long escarp]

Only combat rooms

[worn solar]

like generally its just really beneficial using god keepsakes to get what boons you want so it limits the viability of other keepsakes a lot

[red rock]

well ya, but I don't get fountains even every run it seems, usually only hit charon before the boss, and ones like sisiphysus are situational.

[worn solar]

https://youtu.be/0vZsERNO7cg like there are cases where pom blossom can be good aka if youre retrash

but this run is seeded for epic drunk strike

otherwise wouldn't really be using blossom

[long escarp]

Yeah pom blossom is nice for seeded RI1+ runs

But that’s very very niche

[worn solar]

yep

[fading nymph]

He ran blossom in that?

[red rock]

almost feels like it defeats the purpose of a rouge like
Lets the game chose what loadout you get

[worn solar]

early poms on drunk strike pretty huge tho

eh

[fading nymph]

That’s true

Ig in tart when your playing seeded it’s kinda good there

[worn solar]

seeded only accounts for the first like 1-3 rooms

[fading nymph]

Especially with AP2 poms

Yeah I just ment bc he didn’t need to use cup bc it was seeded

He can do blossom and get Dio anyway

[worn solar]

high heat in general is really iffy with how rng just makes most runs impossible even if youre a robot

seeded is mostly about saving time resetting tartarus

[red rock]

well I'm not quite there yet

[worn solar]

routed is actually controlling every room

which is well really really obvious if someone is routing

[long escarp]

Yeah it’s hard to miss when they spend 40 seconds rhythmically spamming the reroll button on a well

[red rock]

here though pancake I made something for you, all in good fun
https://imgflip.com/i/6e4v8p

[worn solar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/825862916561305643/969094772142784552/Hades_2022-04-27_20-32-38_Trim.mp4 I forgot how good zag bow feels when pests decide to line up for you

[long escarp]

Nice

[red rock]

I wonder, do you all prefer to get the satyr sack late or early?

[worn solar]

early

you usually want to get outta styx quickly

you want to have your build already pretty much complete by the end of elysium so styx rooms usually have more potential for losing health and especially time when it comes to heat

[red rock]

but then you no get as many buffs for fighting Hades himself
I've seen even pro speed runners and the like lose against him still, especially when his boss heat is on
but ya once I get the sack I leave, but the later you get the sack the later you get that big heal

[worn solar]

well when you have high heat you also have lasting consequences maxed so the fountain doesnt net you any healing

also youre using stubborn defiance which patty can buff with +50% extra healing and you dont want that to run out

[dapper surge]

I thought when time runs out you immediately die this whole time but I was wrong

[red rock]

ohh chaos or hammer for the spear of zag?

started the DF run btw, still in tart

[worn solar]

hammer probably

[red rock]

lol aw well too late but I got an epic maimed shot

[long escarp]

Hammer could have given you flurry jab so you could play bad Achilles but instead you ended up with a strong cast damage boon to help if you decide to play bad Achilles

[tight basin]

honestly, if you dont have a good build going into styx, there's a good chance that you were gonna get shafted by hades anyways

[red rock]

ya I've kinda learned that. Some runs I'm like
"I ain't gonna beat Hades like this' so I will just collect money and even sell boons to get a diamond or blood from charon
of course one time I did that, I then lost to Hades when he had like 1 health left, so if I had kept more I could have won

[tight basin]

lmao rip

[south cliff]

What are some suggestions for Aspect of Hera build?

Been thinking of just getting trippy shot and try for the duos

[long escarp]

Crush Shot

[tawny grove]

crush shot snow burst

[worn solar]

trippy a lot cooler on beo. you get two bugs instead of one

[dapper surge]

Does anybody exactly know what it means by "quickly" when it comes to the lambent plume

[long escarp]

Depends on the room

[dapper surge]

An exact time would be nice but I don't know if anyone knows

[long escarp]

I doubt it because again it depends on the room

Would it really help you to know that bridge room in Ely has 33 seconds? (I pulled that out of my ass, not a real number to be clear)

[dapper surge]

Eh whatever it's fine

Anyways artimus with the aspect of nemesis can be borderline overpowered

I used to hate getting artimus but now I almost always go for her

[proper furnace]

There is a timer below the plume for the "quickly" fwiw

[cunning urchin]

Err... err... Pancake and dying on a hill?

[strange lark]

Unholy and pancake

[feral night]

pancake and god are like good runs and dark foresight

they don't mix

[lucid oar]

[feral night]

oh he changed his nickname to remove USE DARK FORESIGHT
i guess he really is part of the olympian favor gang

[strange lark]

Olympian favor gang grows

[lucid oar]

I hope you stay awake at night

[strange lark]

I do

[lucid oar]

Nice

[long escarp]

🥞

[tawny grove]

pancake and Olympian favor

[digital turtle]

i love cluster bomb plus triple bomb

[long escarp]

?

Isn’t that impossible?

[digital turtle]

i was thinking of targeting system, i mixed those up

[unreal tree]

I love rocket bomb and hazard

[long escarp]

I love delta chamber and spread fire

[pastel jolt]

[strange lark]

[hasty notch]

Holy crap hazard bomb combined with deadly flourish is nuts

1150 on crit

1500+ on crit

Jesus

[hasty notch]

3000+ on crit combined with heart rend

[glass echo]

Lol yeah…
First time I ever got hazard bomb I managed to get a decent divine flourish + chaos flourish + targeting system. I was doing 1100 damage without crit and target slow.

You’d think it’d make the Styx chambers really uncomfortable but it’s surprisingly easy to find a safe corner. It also doesn’t do nearly as much damage to yourself

[south cliff]

so when do I go for Aphrodite or Athena

I feel like those two are my least go-to gods

[errant narwhal]

athena lets you deflect attacks and projectiles which is really useful overall and has some other useful boons like replenishing death defiances, and aphrodite has the biggest attack damage increase as well as reducing the damage you take

[hasty notch]

Athena also has that nice legendary boon that makes you invincible as long as you don’t get hit

The barrier takes a while to regen but it’s still very useful

[unborn nacelle]

What do you guys recommend for hidden aspect for the spear

I can never get very far with it due to how little health I have

[lucid oar]

#h1-discussion message

[shell cargo]

hopefully you have it maxed. its a very hard aspect to use if not maxed out.

[unborn nacelle]

yeah i do

[unborn nacelle]

thanks btw

[shell cargo]

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide#aspect-of-guan-yu-spear check also this

[unborn nacelle]

thank you

[rain ingot]

i love Tidal Dash

[nimble dove]

Anyone know if turning invisible is suppose to happen on the final hit attack combo of the Guan Yu aspect? Or is it just a small bug?

[valid dagger]

Wdym turning invisible

[nimble dove]

https://medal.tv/games/hades/clips/jo7NQyH16LIYc/d1337zX4A6Uf?invite=cr-MSwzbnUsNDE4NzY2MDYs

Here's a clip of it

[tight basin]

i'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen lol

[nimble dove]

Was playing around with the settings too, and it happens on fullscreen, borderless, and other resolutions

Not too much of an issue though

[proven osprey]

only have a few runs with this aspect but it did not happen to me

[strange lark]

Few runs

[tight basin]

Same lol

But if I went invisible I for sure would've noticed

[nimble dove]

On the record I've only used it one time before that time in the clip, i've only noticed it here though

[hasty notch]

Aspect of Arthur is so pretty

And it hits hard

[hazy slate]

its a very nice aspect

[hasty notch]

I wanna see what happens if you combine it with Artemis crits

[proper furnace]

Beeeeg dmg but you want to crit on the 3rd swing

So mostly almost base dmg most of the time

[unborn nacelle]

does pressure points apply to calls?

Could I crit on a call

[long escarp]

Yes

Any source of damage from the player can crit with PP

Wait no

There’s one exception

Explosive Return

ER can’t crit for some reason

[unborn nacelle]

Weird

[strange lark]

ER doesnt deserve the ability to crit

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523774570394681344/871832319156166676/DisapPATmentChampion.gif

[unborn nacelle]

So I could hit an enemy with weak while I have the boom that makes weak afflicted enemies take more damage and mark them then crit with aphrodites call or thanatos' cthonic companion it would do a lot of damage

[hazy slate]

i dont think the damage of companion stuff can be increased

[proper furnace]

yeah sweet surrender increases summons dmg

also trap dmg for the matter

and if enemy is marked then you can crit with summons too

(gilga maim/targetting system also increase summons dmg)

and Than summon can backstab enemies if they have exposed from Athena

[terse oxide]

what would be a good build for aspect of hades?

[drowsy wind]

Using achilles

🌫️

[unreal tree]

So true

[wide hazel]

Does the Empowering Flight hammer buff even work on Zeus' shield's Blitz Disc?

[lucid oar]

Yes but you need to catch the special to get the buff

So it’s not that good

Also the attack doesn’t contribute that much to overall DPS so unless you have cshot then 80% isn’t much

[cunning urchin]

You can report the bug through Supergiant Games' contact form: https://www.supergiantgames.com/contact/. Include the link as well and any relevant info about your system. Also generally when you need help with things like that, #h1-tech-support would be the best channel.

[cunning urchin]

You can find some very strong suggestions here: https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide#aspect-of-hades-spear.

You can make pretty much anything work if you understand synergies, so don't be discouraged to try other builds, but the Hades Aspect builds in that guide have pretty much been the meta for it since Early Access.

[nimble dove]

Thanks and sure thing!

[shell cargo]

i like the shield weapon special, with the multiple discs (although it relies on good hammers kinda), whats the best aspect to focus on, for that and does it work on low levels too ?

[valid dagger]

Wdym aspect? If you're looking for a Shield that uses the Special very well you're looking at Zeus Shield only, you can start with Thunder Flourish and look for a lot of Zeus afterwards or just the usual Merciful End, it's nice on this weapon because it doesnt rely on Dash and also works both ways with the cores, if you're referring to The Chaos Shield aspect, it's pretty much a weaker version of Zeus Shield, by a lot, it's the same concept with just focusing on a lot of Zeus, maybe even looking for other sources of damage such as Phalanx + Lightning Phalanx or a nice attack + Cshot

And no, Chaos Shield doesnt work well at high levels letalone low levels

[shell cargo]

yeah i mean aspect choice in shield.

[valid dagger]

Zeus shield is okay at lower levels

[shell cargo]

i mean without maxing it with titan bloods, since it will take a while to max weapon aspects.

[valid dagger]

Yes

[shell cargo]

ok i can try it, i like zeus 🙂 thankfully i am still on low heat levels.

[long escarp]

Zeus with Zeus is still quite strong at low levels

[hazy slate]

what keepsake do you typically start out with for achilles?

[tawny grove]

if youre going hunting blades then blood vial
if you’re going the other speedrun route then start with conch shell

[south cliff]

for heightened security, how does it calculate with Athena's boon?

[long escarp]

Spike pit trap does 5 damage. With HS it does 25 damage. Then with 60% Sure Footing it does 15 damage

Basically it works the way you’d hope it would work

[hazy slate]

What’s the typical combo or whatever for achilles? Special then spam attack or cast?

[valid dagger]

Well yea

You're mostly gonna be casting on big enemies and bosses when you have FLurry Jab + a decent attack

[hazy slate]

So aphro attack and whatever cast I’m going for yeah?

[valid dagger]

Artemis cast is ideal

Aphro is quite subpar

Zeus is also solid but needs more Zeus to really scale into the lategame

[hazy slate]

Aphro attack is bad?

[long escarp]

Oh Achilles flurry jab, yes

It’s just a lot worse than Artemis in every way

[hazy slate]

Huh

Oh right

Just remembered that it also unlocks a few useful duos yeah?

[long escarp]

That’s one of many reasons

1. Artemis attack does more damage because crits, and breakpoints really don’t matter due to the attack speed
2. Artemis attack benefits way more from that +150% from raging rush
3. Artemis attack opens hunting blades and mirage shot

[hazy slate]

Gotcha

I think I’ll go try something with mirage shot next time since I’m kinda meh with ares cast

[long escarp]

Have you read the speedrun guide?

[hazy slate]

Not in a bit

[red rock]

One thing I found that aphros cast went well with was lots of dashes and close range weapons, just to double down on close range damage. The extent you can get for her cast helps a little too

[slim ice]

General guan yu strategies?

[strange lark]

special -> dash strike -> dash strike

use cast inbetween that combo

and charge your spin when the enemies are spawning

[slim ice]

No I mean like the boons

[strange lark]

any high % boon on your special

wait theres a guide for this

#h1-discussion message

[feral night]

stay as far away from it as possible until it's at level 5

[cyan saddle]

chiron build?

[feral night]

aphro attack, artemis special, heart rend, concentrated volley, relentless volley

[lucid oar]

Most specials work decently well

Zeus with all the Zeus boons, Poseidon with sea storm and Zeus boons, Artemis with chaos and hunters mark, Demeter with killing freeze and arctic blast, ares with dire misfortune and impending doom, Dionysus with hangover duos and poms, Athena with deadly reversal, Aphrodite with smoldering air

[shell sleet]

would cursed slash be good if it procced from dashstrike

[long escarp]

No

But it would be a bit less bad

Still probably the 2nd worst hammer in the game though lmao

[hazy slate]

whats the first worst hammer?

[valid dagger]

Depends on what you’re doing

If I’m doing something like 50 Heat and I get Cursed slash first hammer I’m just simply gonna reset

Same for anything that isn’t Dedge (best one), Breaching Slash and Piercing Wave

Because i would kinda want a usable first hammer that helps a bit

But at lower heat I could just keep it even if I get a useless hammer that does nothing

If I get a harmful hammer it’s just bad

Sword has a lot of harmful ones

[south cliff]

thoughts on the hades aspect spear?

want to try it out but I'm thinking it's another artemis attack boon run again

[valid dagger]

Just try Merciful End then

[south cliff]

speaking of spear

Guan Yu run makes me dread having to really try hard

like I already cleared using Arthur

[valid dagger]

The safest spear

[south cliff]

but Guan Yu seems worse

[valid dagger]

Guan Yu is a tough weapon at first

[dense basin]

Apart from cursed slash and the one which gives 90 dmg strikes what are harmful upgrades?

Ok, sturdy upgrade is meh too

[valid dagger]

Chop is actually not harmful because you dont use Normal attacks anyway

Flurry Slash is harmful because it makes your dash strikes end with a normal standing strike almost every time

Dash Nova is a harmful one too

Very hard to control, just not worth it

ruins the whole rhythm of the weapon

[raw pumice]

what aspect has the best build for crit

[lucid oar]

Nemesis

[raw pumice]

Between point-blank shot, chain shot and charged volley which would be best for a crit bow build

[valid dagger]

What bow

[raw pumice]

zag

[valid dagger]

Point Blank

Twin Triple Point Blank Perfect are your best hammers

Followed closely by Flurry and Explosive

Ideally as second hammer

[raw pumice]

Ty

[plucky hemlock]

Hazard 🅱️ Ⓜ️🅱️ and Triple 🅱️ Ⓜ️🅱️ are my favourites for Exagryph

🅱️ouldy

[proper furnace]

Imagine if you could combine them

Tho have you tried cluster rockets?

[gloomy canyon]

what would be some fun dionysus builds to try they seem really fun

[hazy slate]

something with dionysus cast

like ice wine with achilles maybe

or something with chiron and the aphro dio duo

[valid dagger]

You can try a Chiron build, make sure you have Pstatus on the mirror before starting, take Dionysus' keepsake, then take his Special and put some poms in it, look for Ares and Aphrodite afterwards, you want Aphro's attack ideally because it applies Weak very consistently (procs pstatus) and it's also decent damage, and you want Ares' Vengeance boon (duo unlocker), those unlock Low Tolerance and Curse of Nausea, your damage ends up pretty gud with those although you dont need everything to go perfectly, as for hammers Concentrated Volley and Relentless Volley are the best options, if not offered just take a decent attack hammer like Triple Shot etc, Piercing Volley is also not too bad but reduces the range of the volleys, other nice things to look for are a good call because Hangover builds call gauge very quickly so it's good to make use of that, a nice dash can also help Chiron with aoe since it lacks here, Tidal Dash is pretty good, Divine Dash always good defensively, then just take whatever sounds nice when it comes to other options, that should sum up the build

[gloomy canyon]

ooh that does sound fun! thanks

[proper furnace]

Eris rail also fun with hangover

75% dmg boost kinda good

[tight basin]

there's also the dionysus cast build with beowulf

[opal roost]

welp i just had a build with base stygius, dioyunus posion on attack and his legend, lament plume, demeter cast, and the zeus and dioyunus duo... and casually just beat every boss while getting lament plume buff from them (including hades), so yeah i recommend doing a run with that cause its fun, i fished out the hermes extra dashes and got the piercing wave and flurry swipes hammers, but those aren't nessarcy for the run to be kinda op since i was mostly using hermes dashes for the dash strikes with posion

[gloomy canyon]

Guess i have some builds to try out later. Thanks everyone!

[proper furnace]

Dem cast but you had dio-zeus duo?

[valid dagger]

[hazy slate]

wh

what

[tawny grove]

wait a damn minute-

[unreal tree]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/952268336169902182.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[undone owl]

cant believe i got greater recall on a lightning rod build

felt bad to turn down

but i did what i had to do

😭

[south cliff]

aside from lucifer, which gun aspect is better or at least more interesting?

[proper furnace]

Both Eris and Hestia are better than luci

[dreamy prism]

lucifer kinda sucks tbh

[south cliff]

I just used it for the prophecy, and I'm looking for other run ideas

[dreamy prism]

hestia is one of the least rng dependent weapons in the game and also doesn't really care about any heat through like 25

highly highly recommend

you just put aphrodite on attack and your choice of dash and you're basically guaranteed a win

[shell sleet]

no not really

its a rail aspect

that already makes it better than like half the aspects

[dreamy prism]

eh true, at least it's better than fists

still think it's miles below eris and hestia though

[shell sleet]

yeah definitely eris and hesty are better

[tight basin]

being better than fists is a relatively low bar to pass lol

[proven osprey]

Nah you could be sword

[tight basin]

i feel like sword is better just because it has less of a risk factor

and also better aspects overall

[proven osprey]

Besides Gilgamesh sword is riskier

[dreamy prism]

yeah arthur and nemesis really help

I'm a fan of poseidon too

[tight basin]

how's sword riskier? i figured that it had a bit more range than fists so you're not as close

[dreamy prism]

sword special is quite vulnerable I assume

[proven osprey]

Because you need to special > double dash strike for your DPS rotation. This is more commitment than punching

[tight basin]

ah i see

[proven osprey]

Gets worse as you raise Forced overtime

[dreamy prism]

either way I think divine dash is required on both at higher heat

[proven osprey]

Without it, it's fine

[dreamy prism]

less so on sword still

[proven osprey]

Not really a fan

It does help survivability but if you don't run ME you'll have little damage

[dreamy prism]

no doubt

if I get athena naturally I'll force her onto artemis attack aphro special nemesis

and deadly reversal nemesis isn't like the worst thing ever I guess

[proven osprey]

Well divine flourish is massive on sword

[dreamy prism]

oh really?

[proven osprey]

Yes it's quite critical at high heat

The safety it provides is quite poggies

[dreamy prism]

so wait is high heat nemesis artemis strike athena flourish aphro dash?

[proven osprey]

It depends on what heat we're talking about. If you can aim for a build, heart rend or ME are still your strongest options.

If you can't (Approval process, routine inspection), you'll probably want Athena for the flourish/dash. Then you slam whatever on the attack (doom, hangover, or any % because nemesis has crit contrary to Zag that will take anything that pops DC)

[dreamy prism]

I'm missing 32 on nemesis rn

I also have like a 150 win streak hell mode going and so want safest option possible

[proven osprey]

ME would be safe

Damage and athena

[dreamy prism]

cool

hm I guess no dash ME isn't that bad either right

unlike no dash fist ME

[proven osprey]

It's workable even though you'll want it yeah

You'll get it consistently at 32

[dreamy prism]

cool

TD3, DC0, FO1?

[proven osprey]

Yeah seems pretty good

[dreamy prism]

that's standard zag sword high heat too huh

[proven osprey]

You can FO2 if you're used to it but it's quite the change

[dreamy prism]

FO2 just seems more likely to randomly end my streak is all

aka if things are going badly then EM3 FO2 asterius shows up

[proven osprey]

Yeah it's hard

[dreamy prism]

I only really feel comfortable with FO2 on beowulf lmao

it's such a bad habit

[proven osprey]

EM3 gets real with FO2 yeah, same for Dad

[graceful smelt]

just got Second Wave and Sea Storm offered at the same time

and i dont even have that legendary and duo boon mirror thingy

[cerulean musk]

Can you get lightning phalanx with hera bow?

[valid dagger]

Yes

[cerulean musk]

is it gud with hera?

[valid dagger]

The simple Crush Shot is always superior

But yea Phalanx is one of the better options as far as other casts go

And making it better for clearing rooms is always a nice addition

[cerulean musk]

Does crush shot lodge into enemy?

[valid dagger]

Yes

[cerulean musk]

when i used it with hera i mostly missed

is it only for short range?

[valid dagger]

No

You can shoot it across rooms too

[cerulean musk]

guess i am using it wrong

[valid dagger]

If you're missing then you just need some practice to get used to the weapon

But it is by far the best Cast for Hera

[cerulean musk]

usually i go with dio

[valid dagger]

Dio is an okay option with Stygian

But it's inconsistent

[cerulean musk]

ok

[valid dagger]

Because it needs a lot to get to it's true potential

[cerulean musk]

btw best sword build?

[valid dagger]

What sword

[lucid oar]

Merciful end

[cerulean musk]

aspect?

[valid dagger]

Well yea Merciful End is probably the strongest for non Arthur swords

[lucid oar]

Not Arthur

[cerulean musk]

Ok

[raw pumice]

hey uh

is sea storm good

[valid dagger]

It depends

It's good on some weapons

Usually a decent side pick on most things, not something you force or always try to get

[tawny grove]

yeah
its fun and usually alright but not super important

[raw pumice]

For achilles spear what boons are really nice to have

I got Tidal Dash and the hammer triple jab (or whatever it's called)

[hazy slate]

Ares arte duo is good for Achilles

[valid dagger]

Tidal dash is very good on Achilles, in terms of hammers Flurry Jab is the top option by far, if you don’t get it your other options aren’t amazing, Serrated Point is the only other one that will improve your damage but it’s tougher to play with due to the reduced dash distance, the rest of the hammers wont be that noticeable, you can go for Artemis or Zeus on your attack and try to get a nice cast along the way because Achilles’ buff applies to Casts too, Artemis can work with Slicing Shot for Hunting Blades and having Poseidon’s dash also opens Mirage so that will really help with your bosses, can also do Crystal Beam for Crystal Clarity, solid option but inferior to Hunting Blades, if you go the Zeus route you can still get Hunting Blades etc if you see Artemis and take her Special for example, but usually when you go with Zeus you just want a ton more Zeus so Jolted Call Double strike etc, a nice cast imo is Phalanx shot, with Zeus it unlocks Lightning Phalanx, very amazing for rooms and Heroes

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18uZziGYDyVCwc-XgcveoY8MXp6Lwq0BD6xDV38cuYWo/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eAOEli9KqJOVyPD7U-6D1o1yZx1tDMQWLDcMJr8G84E/
Here are two guides by top Achilles players, Speedrunning is the main focus of them but at the end of the day speedrunning is all about playing the weapons properly and making good decisions to optimize your damage

[raw pumice]

Is Splitting Headache good?

for Achilles

Or would True Shot be better

[valid dagger]

Both not particularly amazing picks

Depends on how the rest of the run is going and your god pool etc also your way of applying Hangover but I think I’m more likely to leave my cast slot open for another one, True shot is quite weak, but again, it depends on other things

[dreamy prism]

I wouldn't recommend true shot with achilles

[tawny grove]

true shot kinda eh

[dreamy prism]

it's a good poseidon cast pick (my personal favorite)

it's also arguably the best boiling blood cast imo

[tawny grove]

i like hunting blades or meme beams on achillies

[strange lark]

True shot isn't that good

Phalanx is way better

[dreamy prism]

yeah it's definitely inferior but I like it a lot

it's fast and accurate and also doesn't leave bloodstones in the middle of nowhere if it misses

plus it almost guarantees exit wounds which helps a bit

[raw pumice]

uh

I got an aphrodite boon

heatbreak, her aid and different league

i feel her aid might not work on bosses

[proper furnace]

It does

Reduced duration tho

[valid dagger]

1/3

[raw pumice]

oh crap

which do i pick

[raw pumice]

1/3?

[dreamy prism]

damn apparently idk what heartbreak is

have I lost my mind

[raw pumice]

heartbreak flourish

[dreamy prism]

got it

[raw pumice]

specials apply weak

[dreamy prism]

what aspect?

[raw pumice]

achilles

[dreamy prism]

achilles aphrodite special is pretty good

assuming you special through enemies

[raw pumice]

i do usually do that

[proper furnace]

Reduced to 1/3 of normal duration

[dreamy prism]

then I'd pick that up

[proper furnace]

(for charm)

[raw pumice]

okay

[dreamy prism]

aphrodite aid is okay

[raw pumice]

is athena's symbol the wheel

it's either athena or aphrodite

i think i wanna do athena, tbh

[dreamy prism]

yep

[tawny grove]

its the shield yeah

aphrodites is the heart

[raw pumice]

what's a good duo to aim for

with achilles spear

i have poseidon and aphro, not sure what their duo is

[tawny grove]

sweet nectar, poms do 2 levels instead of one

[raw pumice]

poms?

[tawny grove]

poms of power

[raw pumice]

ok

[tawny grove]

its pretty nice tbh

[urban tapir]

if i take a chaos gate instead of the original path will the reward displayed for that path be changed?

[valid dagger]

Well you’re taking a different room so different room rewards are gonna be rolled

Can also be a different number of exits

Or a different laurel

[raw pumice]

@valid dagger with the gun's bomb you can crit with it right

[proper furnace]

If you have an artemis boon that allows it yeah

(special/pressure points/enemy has hunter's mark)

[shell sleet]

only thing that cant crit is explosive return

or soemthing like that

[dreamy prism]

that's a weird damage source to be exclusive in that feature

not like it would even be good with crits

[proper furnace]

Explosive returm is one of the best zeus hammers tho

[valid dagger]

Explosive Return not critting is not a big deal at all

It's just odd

Nobody knows why

[shell cargo]

agreed i call that the yo-yo build

[hasty notch]

Triple shot combined with Artemis crits and Rama aspect are insane

[random relic]

crits on rama are ridiculously overkill lol

big number is fun tho

[hasty notch]

Hades didn’t stand a chance

[reef jetty]

@valid dagger

Lets discussing here

[valid dagger]

Yea just gimme a moment

[reef jetty]

I have kill hades twenty times but iam a bit aware about bilds

I know only about Poseidon plus zeus bild

[valid dagger]

So for Lucifer the best hammer is by far Triple Bomb

Followed by Targeting then the attack hammers

Triple Beam Piercing etc

But everything is a bit underwhelming compared to Triple Bomb

For Hestia you can go for the usual Clockets, Rocket as first hammer is very nice and makes the rotation of the weapon a lot smoother

Hazard is very strong too

And then you have attack hammers

So Piercing Ricochet

And Targeting System is okay too

The thing with Attack hammers is that they dont much in bosses aside from heroes

For the most part

Meanwhile Clockets /Hazard just have universal value

since they help in rooms and bosses

[reef jetty]

I always take hammer of without recharging

[valid dagger]

It's quite meh on Lucifer compared to some other options

[reef jetty]

Hmm

I hate recharging

[valid dagger]

You can cancel the reload animation using a Dash or your Special

[reef jetty]

But i will try triple Bomb

[valid dagger]

A big portion of Lucifer bossing is gonna be your Special

Not your attack

And in most cases it'll be followed by Lightning Bolts

So Jolted

Also not the attack

Well technically the attack but not directly

[reef jetty]

I know but pressing r every 5 seconds annoys me

[valid dagger]

R is pretty uncomfortable imo

[reef jetty]

On which button you shifting ?

[valid dagger]

Also since you're on KBM make sure you have Aim at Cursor turned off in your settings when playing rails

[valid dagger]

Side mouse button

On all rails

Not just Lucifer

I already have Special on Q

Having another button that I press often right next to that makes movement really clunky

[reef jetty]

I have special on space

[strange lark]

You what

[strange lark]

I think r is fine

[valid dagger]

I dislike it mainly because of Hestia

And now I'm just used to the reload on the side button for everything

[errant narwhal]

i also thought r is fine but then i tried mmb which was way more comfortable for me

i actually dont use my mouses side buttons even though i have them

[strange lark]

I have special bounded to one of my side buttons

Way better than q

[reef jetty]

Do You mean only Hades ?

[errant narwhal]

i would try it, but now im way too used to my keybinds after so many hours

[valid dagger]

I think I would just not want both my Special and my Reload on my left hand

[errant narwhal]

i tried switching cast and special and it did not work out

[errant narwhal]

im confused by what you mean

i dont use them for anything at all

[valid dagger]

I use them when browsing

[reef jetty]

Sorry

[errant narwhal]

really? sometimes i click them accidentally and go back a page and im like, oh no. didnt mean to do that lol

[valid dagger]

Yea I just use them intentionally to go back and forth between pages

Got used to it ig

[reef jetty]

I practice my English

[strange lark]

Same

[valid dagger]

Well back to the point

I don't think Eternal Chamber is very good

With enough practice you'll get used to cancelling reloads on all Rails

Just becomes a part of your rotation

Eternal Chamber removes the rampup, I dont think the rampup is massive to begin with, but I don't think you should be holding your attack button for that long

When you think about it, just the occasional Special every now and then is enough to cancel the reload and then you can get back to firing

Lucifer has no dash strikes

If you hold your attack and try to dash you are fully vulnerable

[reef jetty]

I will try play without dash when i hold attack

Thx

[valid dagger]

You can watch some vods of people playing the weapon

If you check the leaderboards and filter by aspect

Or the high heat sheet

[shell cargo]

Minor advice. take it or leave it. I am a pro at keyboard and awful on controllers but for this game its a huge mistake to play on keyboard. Just do yourself a favor and buy a controller. For some games like this or hollow knight, its mandatory.

[valid dagger]

That's not good advice when a portion of amazing top players are on KBM

[strange lark]

Bruh

Legit talking to one of the best kbm players michael

[valid dagger]

It's preference

[shell cargo]

Top players are the minority never judge by minorities man. You need to see the bigger picture imo.

[strange lark]

I don't think anything is wrong with kbm

It's not a "huge mistake"

[valid dagger]

I mean most players are on controller

But having top players on KBM too means it's also a good option and not inferior to controller

[shell cargo]

Ok but i disagree, judging by that level of players, is not objective at all. Its masochistic at best for the majority of human players i have met, and im glad i realized that early on. Im a kbm junkie usually but this was just a big No. Hollow knight too.

[valid dagger]

That's what preference means

You just found KBM not suitable for this game but it's just for yourself, you don't have to make a strict opinion that it's just not worth playing Hades on KBM just because of that

[whole osprey]

top players in hollow knight also use kbm

p5 hitless has been done with kbm by more then one person

[lucid oar]

Sub 5:30 and 62 heat has literally been done multiple times on kbm

One runner has over 70 sub 6s on kbm

[valid dagger]

Must be a bunch of gamers

[lucid oar]

[valid dagger]

|| ||

[whole osprey]

in fact the only person to do any rad hitless in hollow knight used kbm

[unreal tree]

😎

[valid dagger]

[strange lark]

[random relic]

anyway yeah no there is such a thing as preference. hollow knight is way easier for me on kbm than it even was on controller, and so ive just completely given up the idea of trying any game on controller. hasnt worked out for me ever lmao

[gusty rapids]

fwiw im pretty sure that like 70% of the top high heat players atm are kbm lmao

[unreal tree]

Yeah and the Chinese high heat fellas are all kbm I think

[valid dagger]

huge mistake if you ask me

[gusty rapids]

agreed

playing high heat is a very big mistake

[solid sparrow]

what advantages does controller have over kbm?

[unreal tree]

hera

flurry shot

easier to learn very movement heavy aspects like nemesis for example, though you can still do it on kbm, just requires a lot more work

since dash directions are controlled by a joystick instead of just having the 8 of wasd

kbm has less snappier spear special auto aim which is beneficial, better with rail special(non rocket), trippy shot and lucifer specials

pretty much everything except the spear special auto aim you can just get better at, kbm or controller

[unreal tree]

You've met non human players?

[unreal tree]

Just realized 62 heat is exclusive to kbm lmao

[dreamy prism]

I'm an orangutan playing hades

[unreal tree]

Im a boulder playing hades

🎮

[dreamy prism]

here chief

[unreal tree]

Have an ambiguity 2% bonus

You've earned it

[dreamy prism]

somehow I feel like you don't even believe in me :(

lmao I kinda hate how some bouldy boons are actually good

[unreal tree]

[dreamy prism]

got the equivalent of common bronze skin for hestia 40

[unreal tree]

You believe in bouldy, and bouldy believes in you

[lucid oar]

Movement speed from bouldy in the routed wr gives more damage than the eris buff

[dreamy prism]

RD?

[valid dagger]

Yea

It's RD and stacking Ichors

[dreamy prism]

oh wait so what was effective bouldy buff by the end of ichor spam

[lucid oar]

Well it’s 10% when you have ~1300% while dashing

[dreamy prism]

so over 130%

eris in shambles, new meta is zag gun + bouldy ichor RD

[feral night]

don't most people do dash at cursor?

[strange lark]

LMAO no

[unreal tree]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/952268336169902182.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[strange lark]

Well I do but I'm not like other hades gamers

[feral night]

have i been playing hades wrong for 300 hours

i wanted the angles

[dreamy prism]

I find the advantage of being able to dash and aim in different directions too much

maybe for gun? idk

[strange lark]

Never use dash at cursor

[feral night]

why

[strange lark]

Because it sucks

[feral night]

what about the angles tho

[strange lark]

Don't need em 💪 😤

[long escarp]

What?? Hollow Knight on controller has literally zero advantages over KBM

Insanely bad take ngl

[long escarp]

Yes, KBM HK is almost certainly better

I say this as a controller player

KBM has more precision and control in general (for HK)

I literally cannot comprehend what that person was talking about ngl

I can’t even remotely understand what leads someone to say that playing Hades or HK on KBM is “masochistic at best” when literally a majority of top runners in every category use KBM over controller

[long escarp]

it’s true

[feral night]

should i use dash at cursor tho

[long escarp]

No

[whole osprey]

def not

[shell sleet]

some people just do be like that

[austere pebble]

ty

[shell sleet]

👍

[dapper surge]

What do I use with the aspect of chiron?

I wanna get into using the bow but it's always felt very awkward to me

[dreamy prism]

my recommendation is aphro attack dio special -> low tolerance

[long escarp]

I don’t like Dio special on Chiron personally. Artemis scales way better

Dio can work though

[dreamy prism]

dio is my pick because it's not hammer reliant

it also has a little better crowd control than other chiron builds due to hangover being main dps

[long escarp]

But Artemis is about as good as Dio with no hammers imo. It just scales better with hammers and chaos

[dreamy prism]

eh I personally don't think arty no hammer compares

especially with FF vs PS difference

[long escarp]

One chaos boon and you’re melting everything

No hammers or heart rend even needed

[dreamy prism]

that still incorporates chaos rng which I strongly dislike

prefer lowest roll builds possible myself

[long escarp]

Ok but if you’re not getting chaos special damage, one of two possible great hammers, or heart rend, then you deserve to lose

It’s very easy to get at least 2/3 of those by mid Elysium

[dreamy prism]

I mean that kind of stuff can just happen randomly

game has a lot of rng even with persuasion etc

[long escarp]

In fact it does happen randomly almost every single time

You’re acting like Artemis special is a high-roll like Dio Beo but it’s really not

It doesn’t need much

[dreamy prism]

I'm not saying it is but I still prefer dio for its relative safety and crowd control

[long escarp]

Yeah that’s fair

[dreamy prism]

as much as chiron is able to have that

[long escarp]

I’m just saying that Artemis is a great option and it really doesn’t need much to be good but also has the potential to scale absolutely out of control

But yeah Zak those are definitely your two best options

Up to you which feels better

[dapper surge]

Thanks for the answers, I've always disliked the bow because it doesn't really work with my playstyle

[long escarp]

My biggest time it to always dash strike

[dreamy prism]

you could also be a weirdo with that ares chiron build

[long escarp]

Never standing attack

[dreamy prism]

think it sucks ass personally

[long escarp]

It does indeed

[dapper surge]

Dude I love ares

[valid dagger]

You can Sea storm too

On Chiron

[dreamy prism]

ran that once and it was a travesty tbh

[dapper surge]

I know objectively he's not that great but my first few runs he absolutely carried my builds

[dreamy prism]

pre sea storm poseidon almost feels like a downgrade

then post you don't even get that much lightning

[valid dagger]

It does need a bit of Zeus and Poseidon to pop off

[dreamy prism]

probably good in styx lol, chiron is ass in styx otherwise

[valid dagger]

Like if you just have the duo it wont do a lot

[dreamy prism]

yeah you need rupture I assume at minimum

and then the wall bounce stuff

[valid dagger]

Jolted and Double strike also very good

[long escarp]

Ares is generally just bad on non-Rama bows. If you want to do some very strong Ares stuff, I suggest Merciful End on fists, sword, or Zeus shield

[valid dagger]

And later Splitting maybe

[dreamy prism]

too highroll for my blood

[dapper surge]

Okay yeah artimus special is insane

[long escarp]

You seem like you’d like Hestia

[dreamy prism]

oh yeah I love it

[long escarp]

Makes sense

[dreamy prism]

managed 40 heat hestia first try due to consistency

same with beo passion flare

[valid dagger]

You’ll love Dio beo

[dreamy prism]

don't think there's any other aspects I can do that with anymore

[long escarp]

You’ll love unmodded CShot resets

[valid dagger]

Rama and Zag bow both ez 40s

[dreamy prism]

oh man that brings me back to my one and only attempt at speedrunning

got lucky build incl charged shot asphodel, forgot to use meg on dire butterfly, ended at like 10 minutes and one second

[valid dagger]

That’s pretty good for your first attempt at it

[unreal tree]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/663604341940158484.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

[dreamy prism]

yeah it was decent

[long escarp]

Lmao Angel nice nickname

[valid dagger]

But yea it’s a lot of practice and rng at the top

[dreamy prism]

I'll check out the mod at some point to help with my mental block against massive rng

oh yeah it was also 3sack tiny vermin

[valid dagger]

[dreamy prism]

that kind of rng screwing me over turned me off right away

[valid dagger]

That mostly why modded runs became a thing

[shell sleet]

[dreamy prism]

why do people even run unmodded tbh

[long escarp]

Just spend 4 straight hours doing hammer resets (for heat, speedruns, or hitless doesn’t matter), then you’ll not be so afraid of a little bit of mild RNG

Especially AP1 hammer resets

[shell sleet]

it's pretty masochistic to play kbm tbh.

[dreamy prism]

how can you stand to run a category where you have a 50% chance of wasting your time at the end

like ????

[valid dagger]

If you join the speedrunning community there are barely any compared to modded

Like most people are just playing modded

[dreamy prism]

lmao thank god

[long escarp]

I spent literally 5+ hours of my life doing AP1 CShot Zag shield resets for some reason

Brain rot I guess

[valid dagger]

It’s just comfy and helps you practice too

Because a lot of runs get going

When in unmodded you reset in Tartarus a lot more

[dreamy prism]

lol eg whoops spent all my dice on rolling first boon

fair and engaging gameplay I'm sure

[long escarp]

Wym whoops nvm missed joke ignore me

[shell sleet]

vorime moment

[valid dagger]

Yea that’s just a reset and resetting takes 3 years on unmodded

[shell sleet]

just run SD like ocaml

[long escarp]

Resets were pretty comfy for my hitless GY attempts

[valid dagger]

I do

[long escarp]

15hp with no DDs

And also HL5 + HS

[dreamy prism]

lol

[valid dagger]

My unmodded run was actually on SD

🗿

[dreamy prism]

unmodded meta is HS at all times smh

[long escarp]

No because that’s too scary

I want to facetank with impunity

Run right into lava

[valid dagger]

1 trap and you lose HC

That kinda sucks

[vast ledge]

What should I put on Aspact of Rama’s special? Does stuff like Doom and Hangover works with shared suffering?

I just unlocked it.

[valid dagger]

It doesn’t but it’s still your best options

[shell sleet]

I would just die to dad if I ran SD anyheat

[dreamy prism]

you can be a big loser and run zeus special

[valid dagger]

Hangover Doom Lightning are the top

[long escarp]

Doom, hangover, and lightning are def top 3. Demeter is 4th place. The rest are bad

[valid dagger]

I mean it’s Eris

[long escarp]

Prioritize attack, and take any of those if you see them and put it on your special

[valid dagger]

I play Beo

[dreamy prism]

wait what about aphro to proc heart rend

[shell sleet]

yes

[dreamy prism]

does that work

[shell sleet]

I'm legally obligated to eat every spin

[long escarp]

You should never have to use a god keepsake for your special on Rama

[valid dagger]

Effects are not transferred using shared suffering

Purely damage

[long escarp]

Nah, it’s way better to just do damage with it. Doom, lighting, and hangover are just too good

[dreamy prism]

I was just thinking can you aphro special everything then arty attack through heart rend

sorry I hate rama idk how to use it

[long escarp]

Passion Dash for HR is worth considering though

[valid dagger]

Also heartrend is overkill on Rama

[dreamy prism]

gotcha

[long escarp]

But generally Aphrodite attack is better anyway

[dreamy prism]

so it's safe to force arty or athena dash in asphodel

[long escarp]

Artemis attack is copium tbh

[dreamy prism]

and get top 3 for special

[valid dagger]

Yup

[long escarp]

Yeah

[dreamy prism]

cool

[valid dagger]

Hammers matter a lot

[long escarp]

Rama is so fun because every god has a great boon

[dreamy prism]

never touching rama 40 so idk why I'm asking lmao

[shell sleet]

no

[dreamy prism]

32 was pain

[unreal tree]

very good question

as someone who played unmodded for 6+ months

it sucks

[dreamy prism]

rip

[valid dagger]

As someone who played unmodded for 10 hours

It’s fine don’t worry about it

[unreal tree]

we didnt have the option back then 🙂

[valid dagger]

[vast ledge]

Does Rama have slower atkspd? I tried using normal attack but it got interrupted a lot and didn’t really reach the point where I can power shot.

[unreal tree]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/865655334294650890.gif?size=44&quality=lossless

[dreamy prism]

the only trash part of game is lack of rng checking that makes modded necessary

[unreal tree]

it charges up slower yes