h1-builds-and-combat

[valid dagger]

EM4 on its own is fine

But other pacts make it a nightmare

[proper furnace]

when you start to pair other things it starts to snowball the difficulty

[unkempt scroll]

Okay

[valid dagger]

You can try HL5 FO2 EM4 HS to get a feel for it

[unkempt scroll]

Oh, no, not HL, I hated the thought of using that

But first things first, gotta unlock heat systesm first x)

[proper furnace]

dont forget lc4 to have only 1 extra life (unless athena ofc)

[unkempt scroll]

... Is the game taunting me?
"Here use this weapon for +20% darkness"
... I can't buy it

Welp, beat the first area withing 6 mins...

[neon crescent]

Uh I got the first link from asterius about malphons now do I have to invest 5 titans blood into malphons different aspects to unlock the hidden one ?

[valid dagger]

Check pins in #h1-story-discussion

[neon crescent]

Aight

[unkempt scroll]

Finallyyy, I got the achievement to use a fully charged call during a trial

[unkempt scroll]

Uhh, yeah... I don't think I'm gonna beat a run within 20 mins x)

I spent 3 mins at the third boss, and I died, lol 😅

[cunning urchin]

Well, it's just a matter of practice.

Or getting a little more lucky with rooms, that can help.

#h1-high-heat-strategies is more appropriate for talking high heat strats, though.

[unkempt scroll]

Well, the earlier conversation just kinda happened 😅
But this run was a 0 heat run. Still a bit out of practice x)

I just unlocked the fists, and suggestions for what boons to go for?

[valid dagger]

ZAP gud

Also if you wanna practice TD3 turn it on

[cunning urchin]

I wrote a guide for Demeter Aspect that can work just as well for base fists. #h1-builds-and-combat message

[valid dagger]

You'll go faster when you see a timer

[unkempt scroll]

I think it's more about the lack of dps

[valid dagger]

It's more about habits rather than lack of dps

[unkempt scroll]

How so?

I spent 3 minutes on the boss fight, not walking around

[valid dagger]

I meant clearing rooms effectively and pausing while making decisions, aswell as other things like Chaos and always taking shops, bosses take time indeed, which is why you wanna clear the rest of biome as effectively as you can so you dont run out of time on the boss

[unkempt scroll]

Well, I would take the Chaos route if I had the hp

But 50 hp and 1 dd didn't seem like an optimal idea

[valid dagger]

As you go higher in heat your build will become worse therefore your dps will of course be bad, and you have other things to deal with like Jury summons and maybe Calisthenics program and Approval Process, all of which are gonna make you slower

And yea practice is quite important, so you're confident in clearing runs a lot more effortlessly so losing a dd to be aggressive doesnt matter as much

[unkempt scroll]

Hmm, I guess

Heh, so much defense. Fists with divine attack + dash

[shell sleet]

is aphro start really correct over zoos start?

[valid dagger]

Not really

I would rather have a good attack and pray for a decent special rather than the other way around

Also your dps is gonna be much worse when you dont have a good attack boon early

A pom or two on a zeus, ares or dio attack are also much more valuable

[terse thistle]

Does rush delivery work with bonus from plume?

[valid dagger]

Yup

[terse thistle]

Ty!

[light totem]

What increases your odds of being able to get the Charon fight? Trying to fulfill the "Friendly Wager" prophecy and I have to redo that achievement because that wasn't credited when I cross-saved the game to Steam.

[last dirge]

It's just a chance to appear in the shop

[proper furnace]

Just dont skip the mid shop

[runic harbor]

im playing twin fists.. my dash and special knocks away enemies.. should i take second wave from posidon or Epic hydraulic might?

[long escarp]

Second wave is more fun. Plus hydraulic isn’t really that good anyway. If you have breaking wave then definitely second wave because everything will bounce around and it’s great

[runic harbor]

@long escarp im a beginner and actually having a good run but am stuck here

[long escarp]

Just take second wave

[terse thistle]

I like second wave, only cause tidal and divine dash are all you ever need. Plus with plume it gets super fun. Generally the legendary and duo boons will carry you pretty well.

[long escarp]

With plume? How does that affect second wave

[terse thistle]

Nothing, it’s just to have with default zag fists. I have a lot of fun running it for kicks

[cunning urchin]

There is no "correct" way of playing.

[turbid sedge]

How on earth do people complete a run in <10 mins? Fastest I've gotten is like a bit below 30 (granted I'm not too good but still)

[cunning urchin]

Practice, practice, practice.

My early runs were also like yours.

[turbid sedge]

Also are legendary boons really rare even if you meet the reqs? Haven't seen any for a while

[cunning urchin]

Base odds are pretty low, yeah. It's higher for a specific legendary if you don't open up Duo Boons in the same god's pool.

That's gonna be the most important factor if you're looking for a specific one.

[turbid sedge]

Okay thanks

[cunning urchin]

Other factors are having any open priority slots (i.e., Attack, Special, Cast, Dash), which will hurt your chances because if you have any open, one boon on offer is guaranteed to be a priority boon.

Which means that slot can't roll for legendary.

[turbid sedge]

Oh I didn't know that

Very useful to know though

Is it often worth purging boons? I never really do so myself

[valid dagger]

I would usually purge a boon if my build cant use it well and it’s not helping much

Free gold to buy better stuff

[cunning urchin]

And also, tier 2 status curses (i.e., Jolted, Ruptured, Hunter's Mark, Exposed) have a 50% chance of being offered when available, so taking them out of the pool will help your odds to get a legendary you want for similar reasons.

Purging boons is gonna be less valuable the more efficient you get at making builds.

When your build is a bit all over the place, it might be good to purge a core boon to get something better.

But with experience, you'll run into those situations less often.

[turbid sedge]

A core boon being one affecting dash, attack, special or cast?

[cunning urchin]

And Call.

Priority is those 4. Core is those 4 + Call.

Calls don't have priority when the game rolls what boons you're offered.

That's also why you can't see an exchange for Call.

[turbid sedge]

With hermes boons and hammers I've seen something about them being guaranteed to appear twice? Will they also reappear if you choose another option over them?

[cunning urchin]

We called the 5 boons on the left core long before we figured out priority works.

Yeah, Lord Hermes and Daedalus Hammers will keep showing up usually.

But it's possible to miss them entirely if you skip them.

Or they might show up in shop when you can't afford it.

Or show up in Erebus when you don't have enough Heat.

Though that's pretty rare.

[turbid sedge]

How important are the Hermes ones? I know the hammers seem important but for hermes only extra dashes seem to help me significantly

[cunning urchin]

Hyper Sprint is amazing with Rush Delivery.

Greater Evasion and Greater Haste can also be very nice.

[turbid sedge]

And can you dash through attacks like Hades' swing and not take dmg? It feels like I do sometimes when it happens at exactly the right time but not sure.

[cunning urchin]

Swift Strike and Swift Flourish depend a lot on the aspect.

Quick Reload is easily #1 for Hera Cast builds but not that important otherwise.

Dash only has i-frames if you empty-dash.

If you attack during dash, you don't get i-frames.

[turbid sedge]

Oh so is it worth keeping empty dash then?

[cunning urchin]

I mean empty dash as in don't press anything during dash.

[turbid sedge]

Ohhh okay thanks

When in the dash are the iframes? Not throughout the whole thing right?

[cunning urchin]

The one very important thing the game doesn't tell you.

Whole dash is invincible.

[turbid sedge]

👀

[cunning urchin]

As soon as you press dash.

Well, a few ms of input lag when you press the button, but pretty much.

[turbid sedge]

That'll make Hades a lot easier thanks

[cunning urchin]

https://youtu.be/z3Mmoo4oTKU

That's a great start for learning how to be speedy.

[turbid sedge]

Thanks for answering all my questions btw

[cunning urchin]

Sure thing.

[turbid sedge]

Is there any easy way to tell Charon's sweep attack is coming? It tends to destroy me

[cunning urchin]

Errr... probably. I don't really think about it when I fight him tbh. So I can't really tell you what m looking for intuitively.

[flat garden]

you'll gain an intuitive understanding of when hes about to do it the more you fight him

from what i remember, just brace yourself when he walks towards you and pauses for a split second

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, it's probably when he's just standing still for a moment, that's the cue he's about to swing at you.

[last dirge]

He does it at a certain time

You'll get a feel for it. that fight is practice

And probably harder than the base end boss

Luckily it also doesnt scale with heat beyond stuff like fo etc

No additional challenges to the boss itself.

I've lost multiple death defiances there many times

[cunning urchin]

Not really harder, you just get fewer opportunities to practice the fight.

[last dirge]

Fair. Also earlier in the run.

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, that too.

[last dirge]

I've had really fast wins in Elysium

I'm starting to think the intent of Winged Serpent is like, a hp regen build

I dont think its necessarily good, but I've seen it do good things with quick spin

I think that's the issue with it. Same with Flaring.

Outclassed. But I think they are solid second choices.

[cunning urchin]

The intent is probably mainly just to give a unique option that doesn't overlap with other abilities and then the players can figure out what to do with it.

[last dirge]

Maybe yeah. I should try it with tempest strike some time

[cunning urchin]

It's very hard to predict what the players come up with.

[last dirge]

I think that would work well because instead off the projectile falling off, because you want to keep some distance, it will actually potentially push enemies into walls

[cunning urchin]

Winged Serpent is pretty bad unfortunately. The extra range rarely does anything at all because while you're charing your spin, enemies run in close anyway and then it hits them like normal, and the extra range will just whiff lol.

[last dirge]

Yeah. I've had it work decent enough in crowds though

Against walls or whatever, where it goes through the group then bounces through them again

Oh and against lernie

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, but... the normal spin does the same. The extra range will often just whiff behind you if you're pinning enemies against the wall with it.

[last dirge]

Especially if you mess with shady. I've actually seen a few things get stuck against the drops and Lernie

Fair

It could use something additional instead of just a lot of distance

[cunning urchin]

I guess... well, if you take Divine Strike, it will stay out longer deflecting attacks.

That could be handy.

[last dirge]

Since its wasted distance mostly

Maybe it flares? Idk

How does epic swift strike compare to quick spin by the way?

[cunning urchin]

That's probably the best thing I can come up with for it.

[last dirge]

Yeah

I've used swift strike in place of quick spin and it seemed to work well

But quick spin just gets rid of one stage of the spin too

[cunning urchin]

Hmm. I don't think Swift Strike affects your spin charge tbh.

[last dirge]

I swear it does

It's probably not a large change but it makes stuff like sending out small spins while dashing away from Aspbodel enemies easier

[cunning urchin]

Been a long time since I took it on Guan Yu, so maybe it does. Probably not since sometime in Early Access.

[last dirge]

I'll have to try it again

[cunning urchin]

You should see a feathery effect during the spin charge if it does.

[last dirge]

It may not increase spin charge rate

But it seems to decrease how long it takes to start

Between starting the spin and actually getting a spin

[cunning urchin]

It makes the normal attack faster, but you're typically charging from a Dash-Strike because that's faster anyway.

[last dirge]

Especially on gy

I cant imagine doing a combo run

Arthur at least hits an area

[cunning urchin]

Well, Guan Yu hits an AOE, it's just very narrow.

[last dirge]

Took a common swift strike

There is no visual and it's too small of a change if there is any to tell

[cunning urchin]

No effect on the spin charge nor the spin?

[last dirge]

No visual that i can see

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, then it shouldn't be affected by Swift Strike, like I said earlier.

[long escarp]

I wish swift strike was viable on more weapons but unfortunately it is not

It’s only good for Arthur, maybe Luci, and… is that it?

That might be it

And then swift flourish is meh for swords, good for Chiron, good for exploding launcher and for charged skewer. Maybe triple bomb luci? I think that’s it

[cunning urchin]

It's quite nice on Malphon.

Swift Flourish is quite decent on rail, too.

[worn solar]

flurry shot

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

My one gripe is you kinda need epic for it to make a noticeable difference.

[worn solar]

yeah 10% is nothing

[bronze marten]

Epic hermes attack speed on fists is stonks but if it’s not epic I don’t notice

Or rail

[last dirge]

Flurry cast you mean? It does more than the others

Any flurry cast can really help some cast builds

60% is just bonkers

Heroic flurry cast

Like a poseidon crush shot build really likes flurry cast

[cunning urchin]

No, he means Swift Strike on bow with Flurry Shot.

[lean mist]

I got funny meme beam before furies

[last dirge]

Oh. My bad

[bitter karma]

Hello
does zag bow aspect stack with artemis?

[flat garden]

yes, it's an additive stack (to the crit chance)

[bitter karma]

oh nice thank you

[arctic charm]

Was so exasparated with Lucifer aspect aiming at dad's jars instead of him that I switched from gamepad to mouse and keyboard.

[bronze marten]

Modern problems require modern solutions

[waxen relic]

Guys what’s the best build you recommend for a new player

[turbid needle]

what weapon do you like

[cunning urchin]

You could take a look at my Newbie Build Guide that's pinned in #h1-for-new-players to hopefully get you started with something decent.

[arctic charm]

Read that in the Chappelle for President campaign voice

[sage lagoon]

Does Artemis’s attack boon allow piercing wave to crit? I tried it and it didn’t seem like it was getting any.

[proper furnace]

piercing wave only gets affect by global dmg i think?

or nothing at all idk

[worn solar]

yeah pretty sure it isnt affects by attack boons or %

[last dirge]

Kinda cringe tbh

It's good for like, flame wheels

[flat garden]

i would simply dodge the flame wheels

[errant acorn]

Is it just me or do most of the hammers suck for the sword?

Flurry Slash is fun. Double Edge is good. I guess Super Nova and Greater Consecration are okay?

[flat garden]

what do you mean you dont like cursed slash

i think double nova is alright but only for pos

[worn solar]

double edge is the only sword hammer

[flat garden]

2edge on nemesis is the only sword hammer combo

[unreal tree]

Absolutely, the only great one is double edge, then breaching slash and piercing wave, after that super nova and hoarding slash and the rest are too niche or just completely ruin you.

If you have double nova you specifically have to wait for the 2nd special to proc before dash striking again

On high forced overtime levels you dont have that luxury

[shell sleet]

shadow slash though

[unreal tree]

Shadow slash doesn't apply to dash strikes

It only has a use on arthur if you're doing the normal attack combo

[valid dagger]

Arthur best sword anyway

[shell sleet]

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Nemesis sword" that's going on in the Hades speedrunning community right now. Arthur deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine King in Brittain for 2,400,000 Pounds (that's about $3 305 472) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my Arthur.

Brittish royalty will spend years working on a single heir and mate up to a million times to produce the finest rulers known to mankind.

Arthurs are thrice as sharp as Nemesis swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a Nemesis sword can cut through, an Arthur can cut through better. I'm pretty sure an Arthur could easily bisect a Hades wearing DC2 with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why Greece never bothered conquering Brittain? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined rulers and their heirs of destruction. Even in World War II, German soldiers targeted the men with the with crowns first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Arthur is simply the best sword that the game has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the hades system. Here is the stat block I propose for Arthur:

WR in any heat: 4:20

Average run time IGT: 6:09

Average RTA run: 12:02

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Arthurs in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Arthur needs to go faster in Hades, see my new time block.

[flat garden]

zagreus should just bulk up so he can hold that sword properly lol

[unreal tree]

Arthur isn't so great? Are you kidding me? When was the last time you saw an aspect with such damage and style? Arthur puts the game in another level, and we will be blessed if we ever see an aspect with it's style and power again. Zag sword breaks records. Nemesis breaks records. Arthur breaks the rules. You can keep your statistics. I prefer the magic.

[unreal tree]

Dazed gets it

[valid dagger]

Lol I hope no one takes these too seriously

[flat garden]

been trying it out

maybe maim isnt so bad after-all

it's still so slow though

[shell sleet]

maim is pretty bad tbh

[unreal tree]

@maim is good actually

[flat garden]

i wouldnt say its good but its not as bad as i remember it

[teal cipher]

Started a run with the Chaos shield, picked up an epic Frost strike for +78% damage and chill, and a chaos boon for another 40 ish percent attack buff

Which of Pulverizing Blow (attack hits twice but no knockback) and Empowering Flight (after special next 2 attacks get plus 80) are better to take now?

Does the plus 80 percent becomes less effective overall in the damage calculation compared to a second raw attack?

[turbid needle]

if youre already going with attack build id just take pulverizing blow

[teal cipher]

Okay yeah ive gone with that and it seems ludicrously strong already

[valid dagger]

It's good

Charged Shot also top tier hammer if you happen to see it

So spammable on Zag shield

[unreal tree]

[shell sleet]

isn't cshot zag just cshot zoos with less options

[lucid oar]

Yep

Zag is better before you get the hammer though

[turbid needle]

Hey everyone, I haven't played in a long time and want to try some sword builds... Do you have any recommendations for every sword aspect. I used to know some builds but I forgot a lot of them 😅

[valid dagger]

Zag sword: merciful end
Nemesis: heartrend gud, tidal dash start gud, merciful end also gud but more rng
Posiedon sword: Phalanx is good overall, Mirage gods are priority, lightning phalanx for better rooms also always a good pick, other casts would be crush shot, good dmg, a little short on the range, takes some getting used to, Aphro is versatile when it comes to duo boons, smoldering air, sweet nectar etc, you can also go snow burst killing freeze from demeter and not care about any particular duos, Zeus cast is great for room clearing in general but it really falls off for bosses compared to others, you can also always go for the stygian casts such as Dio + ice wine, beam + crystal clarity, slicing shot + hunting blades
Arthur: not really boon reliant due to high base dmg, Aphro attack (rare or epic) or Artemis attack are the popular options, a couple of poms there, some decent dash, call and you're set, any other sources of dmg are good pickups like lightning rod, smoldering air, I really like blade dash on Arthur, it's really fun and does good dmg

[turbid needle]

Thanks a lot for help... Definitely will try some of these 😉

[valid dagger]

@lethal token, for overall best of each weapon, Nemesis for sword, Achilles for spear, Beowulf for shield, Demeter for fists, Eris/Hestia for Rail, Bows are all solid, Rama is strongest for high heat, Hera is fastest

Every single weapon has a sub8 on the board, and every single weapon has cleared 52 Heat, just to keep in mind

By every weapon I mean aspect

[icy widget]

yo so my friend and i found a strat that makes hades the easiest boss in the game and its really ez lol

basically equip shield and you need to get the hammer upgrade that makes the bull rush a projectile then go the a corner in the left side of the map and just like spam him and shield when he attacks no need to move no need for nothing

[unreal tree]

not exactly but charged shot real good

[lethal token]

thank you!!!

[tranquil urchin]

It’d be crazy if there was a shield upgrade that allowed bull rush to deflect

[sterile fiber]

Nem sword crit build: Heartbreak Strike + Divine Flourish + Divine dash + True Shot. Roll for Heart Rend and Deadly Reversal

Get Zeus Aid for Smoldering Air for more stonks

[proper furnace]

Pretty sure you deflect during it with athena attack, Not while blocking tho

Unless is a charged shot only thing idk

[unreal tree]

this good

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/913167642699894824/1773.png

almost beat 57 sword a couple days ago

just needed pat

I had deadly reversal remarkably

[sterile fiber]

Thanks I stole it from someone else's video

[last dirge]

You can deflect with athena attack

It's okay

You can definitely cheese bosses by spamming bull rush though

Not everything but for a lot of stuff it just works

Especially on Beowulf

[worn solar]

until dad decides to run up and shove a skull through your shield

[last dirge]

You can also sit in a corner in the challenge rooms

True

What are those even actually called? 45 second enemy wave spam rooms.

[valid dagger]

Survival rooms?

[last dirge]

Yeah

On Beowulf at least you shouldn't get hit

Sometimes you dont even need the gold. It'd just be savings.

[unkempt scroll]

I'm in the middle of reaching the exit once with every weapon, any suggestion for a boon to go for with the spear? 🤔

[unreal tree]

https://youtu.be/MpTtZmSKS4E check this out lol

[last dirge]

Those dashes

[unreal tree]

Yeah real helpful

Especially with only one dash due to RI3

[worn solar]

https://www.leereamsnyder.com/blog/hades-build-guide

heres a build guide. you can ignore the specific aspect stuff

[real onyx]

What aspect should I buff the spear with

[worn solar]

achilles ig

[real onyx]

ok will do

[worn solar]

zag aspect for spear is trash dont do that

and hades is prolly harder to use and has less build diversity

[last dirge]

Skillful dashes too. Back dashes are a fun trick.

I always want bonus dashes

But I never get them with relentless

I always get them with greater

I dont really want +3 dashes with greater

+1 is plenty

[real onyx]

also what does cast do in this game?

[valid dagger]

Dmg

It also procs your mirror perk if you have a cast that lodges into enemies

Boiling Blood/ Abyssal blood

[unreal tree]

Abyssal/boiling on beowulf

[real onyx]

ah

ok then, what kind of build on Spear

to start

*Achilles

[valid dagger]

Go for the Conch and pick up Tidal Dash first

And look for Artemis or Zeus on your Attack

Flurry Jab is your best hammer by far you really wanna have that

If Artemis > Force Ares into Asphodel and take his cast and pray for Hunting Blades
If Zeus > Force Zeus into Asphodel and take Static Discharge

This was just brief, this covers it in a lot more detail, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eAOEli9KqJOVyPD7U-6D1o1yZx1tDMQWLDcMJr8G84E/

[real onyx]

sounds good thanks!

[oblique sierra]

We should pinn this

[teal cipher]

Hades spear aspect + deflecting attacks absolutely destroys the furies, just had the easiest kill on em ive had so far

Deflecting their bullet hell attacks with the back turn bonus on top was doing so much damage

[worn solar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/825862916561305643/914325652574961694/Screenshot_20211127-172240_Reddit.jpg
ddash all you need to beat 50, even 64 heat confirmed

[proper furnace]

i saw that post too

[sterile fiber]

I mean it's true if you're going for ME

[cunning urchin]

How do you grab in this game?

I didn't know you could do that.

[real onyx]

hmm I dunno about Spear

feels a bit wonky to use

AoE not great

when you're used to sword

[worn solar]

pretty wide hitting dash strikes

[real onyx]

hmm, guess I need practice then

so the combo with Achilles Spear seems to be Cast, Spear-Rush in, then Dash-Strikes

[shell sleet]

stygian casts on poseidon

doesn't that defeat the purpose of removing the lodge though

[proper furnace]

You still get your +50% cast dmg so whatever ofc you could just play achilles

[shell sleet]

or you can play cast aspect eris

[proper furnace]

Or talos

[unreal tree]

Talos

[last dirge]

Dash strike builds on spear can get pretty amazing

Serrated point is stonks

It's only scary on Hades and if you have relentless tbh

I did that on gy once

Breezed through the game but got to him and it took a minute to get a grip

Like you can do 1000 damage total dash strikes

[real onyx]

I’m sure Achilles Spear is overall better than Hades Spear, but I found Hades Spear more intuitive and straightforward to adjust to

[real onyx]

Proc the bonus damage, then go in on your own terms. Also good synergy with multiple Athena Boons

[half canyon]

The higher heat you go the more you realize hades spear is not so great. I only use achilles for the spear although depending on luck guan yu can be either the worst thing ever or god tier op

[dusty hazel]

hey i have the aspect of guan yu

and i dont know a good build for this

[proven osprey]

Your build will revolve around the hammer you'll get

You basically have 2 ways of using the strenghts of the aspect : Spin builds with Quick spin and massive Spin and a special build with charged skewer (the best hammer by far)

The classic build for speed is merciful end along with charged skewer

Otherwise, any % boon on special is good, artemis being the best option

[dusty hazel]

kk

[proven osprey]

Good attacks on spin builds : Artemis Athena Demeter Aphrodite

Special > double dash strike is the dps rotation, I think it's the important thing to know

With practice you'll notice that spinning should be done carefully, especially when you don't have quick spin

oh and weak is good in general since you have less hp

[unreal tree]

[clear ether]

i feel like hades spear is just way better than achilles

[strange lark]

its not

[clear ether]

maybe i need to use it more

[valid dagger]

Achilles not so easy to use

[unreal tree]

Achilles without flurry jab

[oblique sierra]

What makes Achilles hard to use

[clear ether]

its slightly harder to use compared to hades

because with achilles your next 4 attacks are stronger while with hades its based on time so it doesnt matter as much if you miss a hit

and i think the spin attack is just easier to control

[real onyx]

How do you use the bow

Is beyond me

[strange lark]

dash strike

[half canyon]

My least favourite is by far Arthur sword

It's so slow and feels like it does barely any damage

[cunning urchin]

Hold down attack right after a dash with the bow to do a Dash-Strike, it'll charge faster than your normal Attack.

And try to get Strike and Lunge boons from Master Chaos.

As many as you can.

Twin Shot and Triple Shot are generally your best hammers.

Other than that, just try yo find a rhythm of Dash > hold Attack > Power Shot > repeat.

2x Dash if you want mobility and 1x Dash if you want to maximize DPS.

[cunning urchin]

Start Heartbreak Strike, and then get Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air.

You can dash between the hits of your Attack combo, so try to use that to your advantage to get backstabs etc.

Hallowed Ground slows down enemies as well as enemy projectiles, reduces damage, disables most traps, and lets you walk on magma.

With Weak and Hallowed Ground already from the start, you can get some ridiculous eHP if you stack more damage reduction and Dodge chance on top of that.

It's not the best aspect for DPS, but it offers a lot of survivability.

[last dirge]

Hades is a great spear tbh

It's really not terribly hard to load a ranged spin attack

Arthur actually has the highest base damages of any weapon

200 base damage on the 3rd combo hit. Kinda huge.

[unreal tree]

Soooo slow though

[oblique sierra]

I haven't crunched the numbers but high single attack doesn't mean highest DPS

[last dirge]

It doesnt have the highest dps

It's just fine

Yeah it's kinda slow especially at first. You really want like

Maybe massive spin and serrated point

Full Artemis

Set up debuff and mark with spin, dash attack until everything debuffed dies

Repeat on bosses

[oblique sierra]

I see you said based damage thought DPS my bad

[last dirge]

It's good for very attack centric runs

And can do most of the same stuff the other two attack spears can do

Just differently. Maybe a bit slower is the main issue

But the spin really is a ranged attack tbh

[worn solar]

exploding launcher my beloved

[last dirge]

You can use it from pretty far away and still get everything

For sure

You can just do that

[worn solar]

a lot safer than serrated

[last dirge]

Serrated is just a favorite of mine

[worn solar]

spear hammer reliance

[last dirge]

Achilles at least can not care sometimes

If its casts, your hammer matters a lot less

[grave yoke]

So, Demeters Arctic Blast & Killing Freeze are kinda counterproductive for eachother, yeah?

[worn solar]

somewhat. if you have a fast way to apply chill, youll just have another stack already put on right after applying the 10th

[valid dagger]

Say meme beam

[grave yoke]

meme beam is op

All depends on if the chill criteria for Killing Freeze is just atleast 1 stack and not full chill

[worn solar]

its just one

[bitter karma]

what do you guys think of using skelly keep for styx

[valid dagger]

Viable option

[grave yoke]

keepsake or companion?

[bitter karma]

what do you guys usually use

[bitter karma]

u cant change companion tho right?

[valid dagger]

Not a whole lot to talk about lol, it’s a 100 hp defiance which makes it a good defensive pick for the last boss and even normal tunnels

[valid dagger]

Acorn or Tooth usually

Spearpoint occasionally

[bitter karma]

oh

[grave yoke]

You're right, i read the question wrong

[grave yoke]

I always go for spearpoint, you can mititgate fatass spinhits from hades

[bitter karma]

i see

wait do you guys use other companions other than meg or bouldy

[worn solar]

collar increases healing amounts so it can be a bigger ehp increase than tooth

tho like dmg gating

[bitter karma]

whats that

[worn solar]

antos can be nice for higher heats when fury will murder you

[valid dagger]

I like tooth because of dmg gating yea because I usually take it on heat anyway, Acorn otherwise

[bitter karma]

fr?

[errant narwhal]

i like antos the most but rn i use shady because im farming darkness

[worn solar]

like if you get hit for 100 by dad when youre at 1 health, you pretty much canceled out 99 dmg by having tooth and that last dd

[bitter karma]

oh

[worn solar]

though tbh collar can do the same thing

[bitter karma]

im only on 9 heat highest yet

[bitter karma]

if u use collar on tart

then switch

[worn solar]

like with the max health from collar, a hit that wouldve killed you could instead leave you at 10 hp

[bitter karma]

do you keep health?

[worn solar]

you lose it

[valid dagger]

No

[bitter karma]

awww

[worn solar]

would be a lot better than purse if you kept that 50 health

[valid dagger]

You kinda go for something else on Tart to get your build going

[bitter karma]

yeah im tryna build up my keepsakes

ive got the gods leveled

[valid dagger]

Yea that’s fair

[bitter karma]

tryna levelling sisyphus keep

how many times does a max acorn block?

[oblique sierra]

5

[bitter karma]

oh okay thanks

any chiron bow builds worth mentioning?

[valid dagger]

Heartrend, Low Tolerance, Sea Storm

[bitter karma]

i see

[valid dagger]

Heartrend is Aphro attack (to apply weak, could also be dash but why), and Artemis Special
Low Tolerance is Aphro attack (again to apply weak) and Dionysus special
Sea storm is Poseidon Special and some Zeus core boon (ideally call or dash because double strike > storm lightning)

[bitter karma]

ive tried zeus special with leg

soo good

[bitter karma]

aight if i get lucky thanks man

[valid dagger]

It’s decent

[worn solar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/895331680062165022/914653706409107486/unknown.png example of collar being stonks

lvl 2 collar gives 38 health

😎

[bitter karma]

dd is half of ur health right

[worn solar]

yeah

actually it mightve been better to have lost the dd and just hoped the well would sell one

[bitter karma]

is dd really better over sd?

[worn solar]

not for 50 heat i forgot to switch to sd

though it was em4 so you kinda die eitherway

[bitter karma]

u can get extra defiance right if u kill urself before getting athna

[worn solar]

sure if ap2 decides to cooperate

[bitter karma]

hahaha

[turbid needle]

Hello i am trying out the Achilles's spear any good builds apart from the usual Poseidon/Zeus duo?

[worn solar]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eAOEli9KqJOVyPD7U-6D1o1yZx1tDMQWLDcMJr8G84E/

seastorm kinda has the issue that poseidon attack aint great without the duo

[turbid needle]

Appreciate it a lot mate

[worn solar]

tidal dash with zeus attack is usually more consistent

[bitter karma]

https://imgur.com/AeCMDYh

i got eury

[unreal tree]

[turbid needle]

Any other builds that u recommend mate@worn solar ?

[valid dagger]

Chaos stonks

Better have sea storm ready

[valid dagger]

The guide they sent covers multiple ways to approach your build, cast builds are pretty good on Achilles, Hunting Blades, Ice wine etc

Just to name a few

[turbid needle]

Yeah i was talking about trying out other weapons' builds

For example should I copy the exact boons for Poseidon's sword?

[bitter karma]

dang

i actually got it

its actually krazy build

[valid dagger]

Well not really, there are some things that don’t work too well like Zeus attack

They play differently and usually like different casts, while Achilles is stronger with casts that don’t lodge, Poseidon’s whole special gimmick revolves around casts that can lodge so you don’t often run it with unlodgable ones, they definitely work tho

[bitter karma]

dang

i actually died

https://imgur.com/CKJg4to

[valid dagger]

Nice build

Perfect hammers

Missing some more Zeus but Chaos and wave pounding would’ve probably made the dmg pretty solid for bossing

[bitter karma]

yeah i got wave pounding

and chaos

[terse thistle]

I’m still trying to wrap my head around what’s so good about merciful end…

[proper furnace]

Doom has high dmg but delay, merciful ends deletes that delay by being able to instantly triggering doom

Pair with divine dash for massive dmg

[bitter karma]

whats the weapon for that

[proper furnace]

Yes

Sword/fists rail more of a meme/spear/shield

Bow ig can work too, not as well as others

[bitter karma]

okay

chaosshield big dmg?

[proper furnace]

Barely used it so no clue

[bitter karma]

ic

[last dirge]

Chaos shield is solid for some stuff. Not really ME though

Zeus is better for that

You get athena dash ares attack athena special

Get dashing wallop

Dash strike enemies into your special and get huge ME stonks

A bow ME run could be like

Rama, ares special, athena dash

Dont even necessarily need attack, especially if you get the tier 2s from Ares

With that you probably want bonus dashes too

Add in hyper sprint and rush delivery and it'll be absurd

And on bosses you can stack massive dooms then trigger them, and I believe this will give the doom damage the rush delivery bonus

So like no joke 5k dooms

You dont even need ME it just kinda ties it together

[proper furnace]

as long you have hyper sprint active while your source of dmg triggers, it applies RD

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, just get the three best Lord Hermes boons in one run.

[oblique sierra]

Wouldn't you stack more doom with it on special instead of Athena?

[proper furnace]

zeus shield can use either tbh

just pick the highest rarity one at the start or whatever you like more if both are same rarity

[worn solar]

dire misfortune doesnt really matter

[last dirge]

DM basically only matters on Rama special only because it just doesnt do on hit damage

And it applies curses so fast

[bronze marten]

ME Rama…curious

[worn solar]

well ME pretty much works on everything

[sterile fiber]

Though RaME can end up like, by the time your Divine Strike hits, the Doom Special already hit

unless DDash ofc

[arctic charm]

I understand the poseidon dash is useful as an offensive tool coz of the knockback and the large damage

I was just using it to social distance while I emptied clips into them using bouncy lightning attack

[valid dagger]

social distancing very impoortant

[arctic charm]

Probably would've had huge dps with the dash plus rupture

[shell sleet]

can shades even get the rona

[valid dagger]

Probably not

[valid dagger]

Yea dash is so much dmg honestly

Makes styx tunnels and small rooms trivial

[shell sleet]

even for bosses tbh i feel like dash is atleast a third of my dmg

if not more

[valid dagger]

Yea

[shell sleet]

splash dash that is

[arctic charm]

Tiny vermin gets melted by knockback. For bosses it's a large part of damage coz of dash attacks typically right?

[valid dagger]

Well it's because you play such a weapon at close range anyway

And you dash back and forth a lot to cancel animations etc

[shell sleet]

eris is a melee aspect afterall

[valid dagger]

So a lot of your dashes hit the boss

Rupture / Wave pounding etc

Not to mention

The actual dash pom scaling

is so good

[shell sleet]

^

makes rarity on splash dash not really an issue

since +1 pom more than compensates rarity

[arctic charm]

Wave pounding buffs rupture damage?

[valid dagger]

It buffs dmg dealt to bosses from boons that have a knockback effect

[arctic charm]

so only the splashing effects (dash, call, attack, special, breaking wave) right?

[valid dagger]

Cast too, I dont think breaking wave is affected

Breaking wave is for when you hit enemies on walls

Rarely happens on bosses

[turbid needle]

any good builds with bow?

[valid dagger]

Any aspect in mind?

Because they all play quite differently

[turbid needle]

aspect of zagreus

[unreal tree]

artemis attack+passion dash-heart rend, try to get smoldering air with zeus call

good hammers are triple>twin>flurry>perfect>point blank

usually you want triple or twin first, then any of the latters for 2nd

charged volley memes also fun

[turbid needle]

i dont understand why triple shot is good. could you explain a good use?

or how to use it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pkCSaIeD5Y

youre fing kidding me lmao

triple shot is dmg x3

you want to get close and backstab

[valid dagger]

Yea if you’re close all 3 arrows hit

Requires better positioning because you have to know when your enemies pause etc

Also

Don’t take Chain shot if you have triple first

Removes the whole shotgunning gimmick

[polar python]

Really? I had chain and triple with Doom and it worked great. One shot and everything was dooming.

[valid dagger]

Well yea but if you're close to an enemy and try to hit them with 3 arrows you can't

[polar python]

Ooh really!?

Didn't realize that.

Ta.

[unreal tree]

[valid dagger]

Yup only 1 will hit

[turbid needle]

hello is there any guide for poseidon sword and is it any good?

[valid dagger]

Well Poseidon Sword is a Cast Aspect, your Special dislodges Casts stuck in enemies and you have a passive buff that gives +50% dmg to your cast, usually on Poseidon you go for lodgable casts, popular ones are Phalanx, Crush Shot, Zeus' Cast, but you can make anything work, Phalanx is really good all around, big boss dmg, good for room clearing especially if you get the Athena-Zeus Duo Boon, Zeus Cast is extra good at room clearing but falls short on dmg for bosses compared to other casts, not a weak option tho, just has that bit of a problem which can be fixed if you have other sources of dmg or if you scale your cast dmg really well with say Global dmg, Crush Shot gives you dmg reduction indirectly, has that reduced range compared to other casts but it's manageable, you can also alternatively go for lodgable casts, which still work just fine, Slicing Shot > Hunting Blades, Crystal Beam > Crystal Clarity, Trippy Shot > Ice Wine

[worn solar]

tldr build ME or SA

[rose siren]

quick question: poseidon sword just by default increase ur cast dmg, right?

[proper furnace]

Like a 10% iirc

[rose siren]

max rank said 50

[proper furnace]

When you said default i tought lvl 1

[valid dagger]

There are no conditions to get the +50% if thats what you meant

It's just there

[rose siren]

it sounds quite nice if u use that with shackle at beginning just 150%+ cast lol

[valid dagger]

idk about quite nice lol

[proper furnace]

125 dmg base cast, also know as epic crush shot but a bit higher

[rose siren]

i was playing around with AP2 with shackle + hourglass

gonna try and see how it goes with poseidon aspect

[unreal tree]

Try mom pom start posideon

Better yet, drunken strike

[rose siren]

lol it's not like i would know i could get my desired atk/special/cast thx to AP2

charon buff is quite nice at Styx to counter AP2

and if u just save up fate token, u could get like 6-9 buff in one Styx well 😄

[keen monolith]

Haelian has done em4 Hades afk

[last dirge]

Yeah it's funny. Requires a lot of work

I think he basically did all gods too

So all revenge boons

Cant recall if he missed any. then vengeful mood and stuff

I forget his keepsake. I would probably use speartip

That just seems like the choice for stuff like lasers

Or his bloodstones

He likes to combo them into spins on em4

I think revenge boons can be kinda amazing

Especially Zeus'. The range on it.

Really solid damage

It melts any laser enemies

Who like to clip you with damage anyway. Just shuts them down.

And I guess I like the Athena one for Deadly Reversal

Maybe ME but apparently you need a certain order, with Athena and Ares' revenge boons

[bitter karma]

whats the best spear aspect ?

[flat garden]

guan yu

i like both achilles and it tbh

[bitter karma]

achilles spear buffs cast too right?

[flat garden]

yea

its a cast weapon

[keen monolith]

Achilles is the best spear aspect

And imo the only viable one for high heat

[bitter karma]

i see

u guys got beowulf shield builds?

[cunning urchin]

They're all viable for high heat.

[keen monolith]

Eh

If you’re super good maybe

[cunning urchin]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7EOP28oyu6t8KrBEfnrN-dQc6H_ssvAyYz3C1O2JOI/edit?usp=sharing

[keen monolith]

But even then I can’t imagine doing high heat with zag spear or guan yu

[bitter karma]

oh thank you soo much

[keen monolith]

For beo shield id use Aphrodite or poseidon cast and make sure to get the charged shot hammer

Dio cast is good too

[cunning urchin]

The very first 40 Heat clear was with Guan Yu.

[keen monolith]

Yeah

Wasn’t it nerfed tho

Or am I misremembering

[cunning urchin]

It's only at like 50+ where it starts being just reset for Charged Skewer.

From 50 to 45 base damage on the Special, not that big of a nerf.

[keen monolith]

Ah

[worn solar]

i have 50 heat clears with hades, zag, and guan yu for some reason before achilles

though havent tried achilles yet

[bitter karma]

was there a build for gold?

was it stygius?

[worn solar]

hoarding slash is kinda bad

[cunning urchin]

It can do a whole lot of damage with enough money.

You just gotta get lucky with Chaos boons etc. to really get there.

[worn solar]

now if it could crit

actually does hunters marks even let hoarding crit

[cunning urchin]

Go and find out.

[worn solar]

[last dirge]

GY is only upsides if you dont get hit

It's probably still just better than the other spears if you get hit half as much

And you can also really lean into the spin honestly

Get massive quick and a good attack boon (not necessarily the highest dmg since the point would be healing) and getting hit matters a lot less

[cunning urchin]

But on how much Heat?

[last dirge]

Though dmg is free on bosses since you dont just melt them

[worn solar]

if we could reroll hammers...

[last dirge]

I know

[bitter karma]

ugh

i wish

[last dirge]

Even if it cost 2

[bitter karma]

YES

[worn solar]

that or just if hammers were balanced properly

[cunning urchin]

That would be awful. Builds would be even more homogenous than they already are.

Better hammer balance would be nice.

[worn solar]

clockets every other run

[last dirge]

They're only homogeneous if you minmax

Base there is plenty of randomization

Enough to make minmaxing infuriating sometimes

[cunning urchin]

If you only get variety by deliberately choosing sub-optimal, m not really for it.

[bitter karma]

u guys have tips on lvl 2 lernie?

[worn solar]

dont get hit

[bitter karma]

thats why im tryna ask for tips for

HAHHAHAHHAHA

[worn solar]

mostly keep track of the attack patterns

[last dirge]

Em2 lernie?

[bitter karma]

or just kill them instantly huh

[worn solar]

like lernie and the heads wont repeat attacks

[last dirge]

Sure footing becomes especially tempting

[worn solar]

so if you see a head slam that means the next attack wont be a head slam

[last dirge]

Are you trying on melee weapons

That's a lot harder imo

[worn solar]

or if its a different attack be ready to dodge away

[cunning urchin]

Learn what the different head types do and where the heads spawn, re-evaluate your builds to get stronger before you get there, and just practice, I guess.

[bitter karma]

i keep switching weapons for the additional drops

[last dirge]

Like on fists you can be forced to either bait for like 10 seconds or forced to fight on magma

[worn solar]

also the firepool heads are the worst ones https://imgur.com/a/k5smxqA

[cunning urchin]

That's gonna make it harder to learn if you keep switching weapons.

[bitter karma]

yeah but i think ive grasped most of them by now

[last dirge]

For sure they are

You're learning a fight too

[bitter karma]

yeahh

[cunning urchin]

You'd probably have lived with Acorn instead of Lucky Tooth.

But then we wouldn't have this gif.

[worn solar]

aspho bp2 sus okay

[bitter karma]

im increasing my heat each time darkthirst is on another wep

[worn solar]

2x dmg seeker/speeder dracons and witches.....

[bitter karma]

yeahh

aspho kinda hard esp for kEyBoArD

[cunning urchin]

BP4 Dracons are bullies.

[bronze marten]

You broke your own rule and got hit. mildly scuffed

[worn solar]

kinda hard to no hit lernie on sword

[shell sleet]

just play EM 0 lernie

[proven osprey]

You dash a bit too much

Without intent

[worn solar]

i was mostly wondering why i wasnt dead yet

[valid dagger]

I told you ultra instinct kicks in when you’re 1 lava tick away from dying

Also thunder dash

[median veldt]

Are there any boons that stack with support fire

[cunning urchin]

Stack in what way? It's affected by global bonus damage and global crit chance.

[valid dagger]

@sleek pilot The other side of Olympian Favor will help you get more boons/gold/hearts, it’s way better than rare boons, God’s Pride instead of Legacy is also preferred if you’re not aiming for specific duo boons, congrats nonetheless, just thought I’d point it out

I would also say Persuasion is better than Authority

Overall

[sleek pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/taking-notes-writing-down-jeremiah-buie-gif-16911555

[sleek pilot]

thank you so much!! will be making some changes for my next run 👀

[valid dagger]

gl!

[median veldt]

Bonus status effects that get triggered by support fire projectiles

[valid dagger]

There aren’t

If you have Pressure Points and Hunter’s Mark they can crit and apply a mark on another enemy but you can do that for almost anything in the game, it’s not specific to Support Fire

[median veldt]

[polar python]

But support fire is the cherry on the top and keeps everything critted most of the time.

[shell sleet]

run ideas

anyone

[valid dagger]

uhm

Charged Flight beo

[errant narwhal]

there are some challenges pinned in this channel if you want to try them, and you can submit your runs too if you beat them

[valid dagger]

Get sub10 on 40 Heat

That's a fun one

[shell sleet]

no thanks lol

im pretty bad at high heat

id rather do sub 7 anyheat attempts

still mad about how my PB is half a second off sub 7

[valid dagger]

Are you practicing chamber layouts?

[toxic flower]

Do boons that give bonus rewards to darkness and Gems stack?

[valid dagger]

Yes

[sterile fiber]

Hades Spear, spin only. Get the hammer that pulses when you charge a spin

[polar python]

Ouch

[shell sleet]

idk how exactly im supposed to practice it but ive looked at the chamber layout guide a couple of times

[cunning urchin]

Open it up when you enter a chamber, read the tips, try to apply it. Basically.

And try to memorize it that way + find your own optimizations.

But if you got a 7:00 clear, it's not really like you don't know those things, just practice at that point to clean up all the small mistakes that cost you time.

[last dirge]

Do the meme skewer

Charged and explosive on fully upgraded zag

It gets ridiculously long

Is the range increase on Zag effected at all by charged?

Like does it treat it like base range?

It seems bad at first but once you get it, its honestly easy sub 7 if you're already optimizing time

I even got like sub 15 on it and I don't take free rooms as often as I should

And that wasnt planned. I just wanted to try zag spear

[arctic charm]

Is Rush Delivery + Hyper Sprint a significant damage boost?

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

One of the most common combos in speedruns because of how much it boosts your DPS.

[arctic charm]

Dang it felt like it. Thanks 😄

[unreal tree]

Global damage good

[last dirge]

Its +100% dmg on your attack/special/cast

And your call and dash and revenge boons and basically everything else

Dooms

Hangover

Lightning

Even if it's not epic rush delivery, it's a boost to global damage so it's just good. I had it with blade dash and all the ares tier 2s once and it was amazing.

Billowing Strength is great and that's like 20-35% global damage

[oblique sierra]

Do you have to attack after dodging or is it always +100%

[worn solar]

gotta have hypersprint active from a dash

[oblique sierra]

So dash attack consistantly basically

[worn solar]

its generally up almost all the time that way ye

[last dirge]

Yes dash attack triggers it unless its ranged

Then you need to have the movement speed when the projectile hits

Dash boons are also almost always active with it

Relentless Reflexes is the one that actively gives you dmg if you dash dodge something

[grave yoke]

Excuse me? It boosts doom aswell? I was under the impression nothing could except Ares specific boons

[last dirge]

Its global damage so I'm pretty sure

[grave yoke]

this gon be fun!

Would be great if there was a comprehensive manual for specific situations like this. fandom.wiki is nice and all but leaves so many questions unanswered

[proper furnace]

pretty much if it says "dmg increased" it affects everything as long is coming from zag

if it says "enemy takes x% more dmg" it also affects dmg that arent from zag (summons/traps/etc)

[grave yoke]

Testing a bit with CodexMenu mod

gives me different numbers with same boons

pepekek

All i can confirm is that hypersprint movespeed doesnt affect Doom/Hangover

but the base movespeed from greater haste indeed does

[proper furnace]

are you with hyper sprint active while the effect does its thing?

also codex menu has sometimes weird interactions with boons so dont take them as fact

[teal cipher]

Just absolutely nuked Hades with a spear spin build, athena call and billowing strength

[last dirge]

You need to have your speed active while the doom hits

So it works nice with Merciful End dash strikes

[cunning urchin]

Rush Delivery will be active as soon as your dash starts until the end of the sprint duration. Any damage that Zagreus does in that time will get the bonus damage. If you shoot an attack before that but it hits during the dash or sprint, it'll get the bonus damage. If you attack during the dash or sprint but it hits after your sprint has ended and you haven't started a new dash, your attack doesn't get the bonus damage.

[oblique sierra]

So you couldn't really use that with the bow?

Chiron maybe

[cunning urchin]

Works fine with the bow.

You'll need to release your shot with a dash if you use Rama, though, typically.

[oblique sierra]

I guess I don't get it cause the bow shoots so fast, you'd have to be moving when the arrow hits?

Oh like a reverse dash strike

[cunning urchin]

Well, the sprint movement bonus still applies during your Dash-Strike, and it hits pretty damn fast. But Rama takes a bit too long to charge a Power Shot.

[cunning urchin]

Like SomeNoobDying said, Codex Mod can give wrong results, so you're best off testing things during a normal run.

But the interaction of Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery is well known by now at least among high heat runners and speedrunners.

If you think some info should be added to the wiki or that info should be collected elsewhere, best to do it yourself if you can find the time.

That's usually what I do when I think I wish there was a resource for x, and I can't find one, I just make one myself.

[last dirge]

Consider flurry shot for example

You're usually dashing fairly often

That means every so many shots will land while you are dashing

Without flurry that can be any shot with a little more work

[cunning urchin]

Doesn't really require more work.

[last dirge]

Agreed but that's skewed perspective

[cunning urchin]

Flurry Shot with Rush Delivery is kinda not so great. Can still benefit from it, though.

[last dirge]

People struggling with bow usually struggle with the power shot aspect

[terse thistle]

I just use Chiron

Once now clicks it works. As long as you remember to put status effects on special like hangover/chill and go from there… power shots with doom/weak and tidal dash. Most cast works and pretty much gets the job done.

[worn solar]

tbh only really zag bow relies on powershots

but its still good to learn for the other bows

[last dirge]

I just use rama and hope I know my damage well enough

Or just special. Honestly works well enough.

[flat garden]

is there like... a mechanic that forbids you from having only one god in your roster

i keep rerolling and i never get my original god

[valid dagger]

There isn’t

[unreal tree]

No

[valid dagger]

Just rng

I have a run with Aphro only

[unreal tree]

Its just statistically very unlikely

Because every god you see has a 1/8 chance of being that specific god

(if you dont have 4 yet)

So extremely hard to keep only one god

[flat garden]

yeah im trying to do an aphro only run haha

[unreal tree]

[flat garden]

i had like 11 rerolls

it was a miniboss room so i thought that had something to do with it

[valid dagger]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/898298811326271508/Hades_4jZgFW64QJ.png

Rip didnt even embed

[unreal tree]

[flat garden]

i had broken resolve and everything but aphro didnt even show up in styx

[valid dagger]

You can take other boons and sell them

Atleast that’s what I did

[flat garden]

yeah i did that

i ended up dying to dad because i forgot how to fight him without tanking everything haha

[valid dagger]

I like how mine is on persuasion lol

[flat garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/624746351204237314/915537605511217212/aphrodite_hates_me.png

i guess you can call me a fan of aphrodite

[cunning urchin]

Caustic Lunge is a boon from Lady Aphrodite?

[valid dagger]

Yes

[cunning urchin]

'Tis not.

[unreal tree]

[worn solar]

not using aspect of aphrodite

[unreal tree]

Not using Fidi

[valid dagger]

P status

[flat garden]

[valid dagger]

Shadow presence

Lv15 attack pog

[flat garden]

doing styx without any dash boons sucked

[unreal tree]

Shadow hestia

[flat garden]

i forgot how to do this obscure mechanic called "dodging"

[unreal tree]

[cunning urchin]

I don't see you in her discord server.

Time to fix that.

https://discord.gg/aNwD6udwBg

[valid dagger]

#self-promotion

[flat garden]

t'was a lie, i am not a true fan of her because i rarely use her apart from when i want heartrend

[unreal tree]

Could you take the offtopic talk to another channel? At this point its just blatant disregard

[flat garden]

i am a liar, tis true, my heart belongs only to arty

[unreal tree]

[flat garden]

but i digress, i probably like got really unlucky

...10 runs in a row

that beo run looked fun i should probably try the aphro cast on that

[valid dagger]

Beo gud

[unreal tree]

[proper furnace]

Beobug

[runic harbor]

ive won against minotaur and theseus before with shield but im struggling to win now with twin fists. i also have aspect of chaos but cant beat them. any build thats really good against them?
i followed Demeter fists guide by Nyaanyaa but didnt love the build

^new player

[turbid needle]

what build was in the guide, aphro special zeus atk?

in general having divine dash is kinda good vs them

otherwise just learn the boss patterns tbh

[unreal tree]

Try merciful end

[turbid needle]

melee is always harder too

[unreal tree]

Ares attack athena special-ME-dash-impending

In that order

Preferably

Try to pom attack and impending as much as possible

[runic harbor]

@turbid needle yes. ok ill try

should i stick to the guide?

#h1-for-new-players message

[unreal tree]

I dont think % attack is good on the lowest base damage melee in the game

Merciful end>zeus attack>drunken strike>other

[runic harbor]

@unreal tree ill try this

[bitter depot]

yeah

i like going aphro or ares special on fists and demeter on attack...idk if this tech of mine will work on high heat but i shall see when i get there with fists

[unreal tree]

Artemis special is great for demeter fists

Especially with pressure points/marked

Its usually used either with drunken strike to try and get splitting headache, or zeus attack

[bitter depot]

ill try it

[unreal tree]

I can give some example runs

Check self promo

[terse thistle]

Well….. try using fists with plume. Go for divine/tidal dash. You’d want either Demeter/Dionysus on attack. Aphro/ares and maybe Artie works on special. And keep giving nectar to Meg. Gotta build her friendship up for the one really helpful item

[runic harbor]

@terse thistle thanks for the advice ill do that

[terse thistle]

And I’m sure you probably realized by now hopefully but, take one of them out ASAP. Asterius gone would help a lot and you can hide behind pillars when Theseus throws spear

[runic harbor]

should i stick to plume keepsake whole try? or switch between god boons?

i always try to kill minotaur first

[terse thistle]

I’ve done whole plume runs since I’d lose the benefits taking it off. But learn duo boons. Keep upgrading what you can. You’ll improve for sure.

[runic harbor]

Thank you!

[terse thistle]

And casts always help. Always. Underrated stuff especially to new players

[runic harbor]

i always find something better whenever i see a cast boon

i dont know which one is good

[cunning urchin]

Casts don't really matter too much on the Twin Fists unless maybe you're using Talos.

[terse thistle]

Maybe I should give talos another shot

[cunning urchin]

Phalanx Shot can be a decent pick up, I guess. But she has better boons you'd generally want on Malphon.

Frost Strike can work but definitely wouldn't be my top pick. DPS is just gonna be low.

Drunken Strike isn't particularly great, either.

Curse of Agony and Lightning Strike are gonna be best for DPS.

[terse thistle]

Crystal beam is a decent cast from my experience. But frost only really picks up a bit with attic blast and a few others. Lightning strike will need static discharge for a little extra zest

[cunning urchin]

It doesn't need it, but Static Discharge will help a lot, yeah. You definitely want to prioritize that when you get Lightning Strike.

Heartbreak Strike can also be pretty nice especially with a Dodge build, but Passion Dash and Heartbreak Flourish are typically better picks.

[cunning urchin]

Crystal Beam can sure be great with Crystal Clarity, but that's not really a Malphon build.

Ideally for a Dodge build, you'll want Ruthless Reflex from the mirror and pick up a Call asap to unlock Second Wind from Lord Hermes before you see his first boon. Greater Evasion and Second Wind would be top priority from him, and Greatest Reflex and Hyper Sprint come second.

Second Wind and Smoldering Air would be perfect; but with the Lambent Plume on for the whole run, you'll just have to hope to get both in your pool. Not much control there.

[turbid needle]

if you want to run plume do it with zag fists

but its not as consistent as choosing boons

[cunning urchin]

Well, it can get you very high eHP consistently if you have the skills to clear encounters in time consistently.

Which means both mechanical skills and also being able to make the most out of the boons you come across.

Or at least make enough out of it to proc the bonus consistently.

[terse thistle]

I do like the random factor. It kinda forces me to adapt quickly be it good boons or completely crappy ones. And still most of the time enough to smack dad like a rag doll

[cunning urchin]

You'd also probably want to skip most free rooms just to get more Dodge chance from more encounters if you're hoping to get to 100% Dodge chance.

[sterile fiber]

yeah the "issue" with Zag fists + Plume is that it can get locked into a spiral of didn't get good boons -> can't clear in time - > don't have dodge

which is fine for low heat but can hit a wall at some point

[cunning urchin]

Aspect is versatile enough that RNG doesn't hold you back until you're taking things like JS3 CP2 and AP etc.

Well, it can make it harder, but not impossible.

[runic harbor]

is doom better on attack or special

on twin fists

[valid dagger]

Attack

Anything that hits fast multiple times is gonna be better with flat dmg, and anything that is more of a big chunk is better with % boons

With a few exceptions here and there that arent as good as they sound

Like Zeus on Chiron Special

[runic harbor]

'After a brief moment takes a burst of damage' does that mean each hit will do a delayed 50 damage?

@valid dagger

[valid dagger]

Yes, you apply Doom to enemies and after a moment it goes off and does dmg

[fading panther]

Nope, you hit once, Doom is applied once, then you have to wait the burst to happen

Then you can re-apply

[valid dagger]

Yea you can only have 1 doom at a time

[fading panther]

Uhh, depending on your context lmao

[cunning urchin]

Curse of Agony is #1 for DPS on Malphon.

Even before you factor in Duo Boons and tier 2 boons.

[fading panther]

Surely only on Epic rarity? No?

[cunning urchin]

No.

[fading panther]

I mean, Zeus on Attack should be higher?

[cunning urchin]

No. They're about even on single targets. Lightning Strike will do better when enemies are bunched up and Curse of Agony will do better when enemies are spread out since you can move on from enemies quickly and let Doom kill them off behind you.

If you raced Lightning Strike vs Curse of Agony, I'd expect Curse of Agony to win more often than not even in runs that don't get Merciful End.

[fading panther]

That’s interesting. Even on common rarity?

And I guess it really depends on enemy density? But, yeah, more often than not, enemies aren’t really all bunched up neatly like that for Lightning Strike

[runic harbor]

what should i use my pom on with ares athena malphon build?

ares attack?

[fading panther]

You’re going for Merciful End? Put it on Ares Attack, until you see less and less damage increases

[unreal tree]

about lv4 or 5 on the attack lv3 impending is enough

[bronze marten]

doom scales really well with poms compared to lightning strike, msot of the damage there is gonna come from jolted anyway. its basically getting to skip jolted in exchange for a lower power ceiling and less AOE

not counting merciful end

[worn solar]

ppl highly underestimate the power of doom by itself tbh

[bronze marten]

that's probably accurate

[cunning urchin]

Not getting Merciful End on Malphon definitely hurts more now that you have to get Divine Flourish to unlock it. So you're not getting the most out of your Special.

[undone heath]

So whats the best Chiron build

Ive always gone Artemis special, Aphrodite attack, and praying for Heart Rend

[terse thistle]

Idk I’ve had decent success with doom attack and chill special. Tidal dash obviously and hopefully get some mirage shot or other duo/legend boon

[unreal tree]

Seastorm is a really good option for chiron

Just a mega highroll

You start tidal dash and hope to get his special too, then a core from zeus-seastorm

Concentrated volley is real good for it

[terse thistle]

That’s going on my next test run

[cunning urchin]

Low Tolerance with Heartbreak Strike, Drunken Flourish, and Privileged Status (from the mirror) is also a very effective build.

You'd want plenty of poms on your Special and probably Trippy Shot to unlock Black Out as well.

And just focus on applying Hangover on everything and letting that kill things off.

Trippy Shot poms are also amazing.

[terse thistle]

This is why I love the game, always finding more builds to try

[cunning urchin]

Also just generally, Chiron builds god gauge very fast, so try to get a good Call on it.

Sigil of the Dad is also a good option.

[undone heath]

So whats the best call

I like Athena and Ares

[terse thistle]

Artie or zeusy

[cunning urchin]

Ares' Aid is probably the worst Call easily.

The others can all be decent.

Zeus' Aid and Hades' Aid are typically best for DPS.

Dionysus' Aid can be amazing for DPS unless you already have another source of Hangover.

[terse thistle]

I feel ares call need way more boons to be even remotely decent. If it inflicted doom it might actually be better

[rich ibex]

is artemis good idk i just feel really powerful with her aid

[knotty blade]

Athena aid is cool

[cunning urchin]

Artemis' Aid is just a much weaker Aphrodite's Aid unless you pom it quite a bit.