Very different
#h1-builds-and-combat
lucid oar
unreal tree
not unseeded
valid dagger
Well gl
lucid oar
You'd need to luck into epic RD, epic jolted, epic killing freeze, and not die
unreal tree
yck has done 50 heat RI4 HL0
rose siren
62 seems like the max
wouldn't you say the same for 61 weeks ago?
lucid oar
Was that not phantom?
unreal tree
wouldn't you say the same for 61 weeks ago?
no
lucid oar
61 to 62 was just CP1 -> CP2
unreal tree
^
lucid oar
62 to 63 means you lose stubborn defiance
rose siren
62 still has 1 RI?
lucid oar
Yeah
rose siren
then it must 62-64
unreal tree
62 heat is RI3
rose siren
can't be 63
unreal tree
because of hell mode giving one more heat
lucid oar
63 is RI4 non-hellmode
rose siren
yeah, we've been talking about hell mode
actually, step back one question
the 61 and 62 were hell mode, right?
lucid oar
Yes
unreal tree
yes
rose siren
so there should be no 63 hell mode
lucid oar
Well there is but it's not optimal
rose siren
unless they readjust it
lucid oar
You could do RI4 HL4
unreal tree
PL isnt that big of a difference if you only have like 100 hp and no SD 
rose siren
oh well, i won't comment much on that, since never did it b4
unreal tree
out of reach at the moment
rose siren
of conquering Hades
unreal tree
the heat system wasnt really balanced beyond 40 heat
lucid oar
Yeah
rose siren
hence why 32 Heat is the max reward
turbid needle
repulse shot or chainshot?
rose siren
cause it's not supposed to be beaten lol
lucid oar
40 is about the highest you can go where you can expect to have a great build with no scary final boss
rose siren
with higher
unreal tree
repulse shot or chainshot?
neither, both suck
lucid oar
repulse shot or chainshot?
What's the 3rd option
turbid needle
explosive shot
lucid oar
Take it
valid dagger
Yea 40 is quite chill
lucid oar
rose siren
40 is about the highest you can go where you can expect to have a great build wi...
umm no, i say 58 the dream 😄
lucid oar
I'd reset lmao
valid dagger
Lmao
valid dagger
umm no, i say 58 the dream 😄
Waiting to see it one day
rose siren
the dream of beating Hades 58 Heat with terrible build lol
wanton garnet
Is there a railgun build that isn't as rng dependent as Eris? I don't like having to pray that one lucky hammer shows up
lucid oar
You don't need cluster rockets to get good builds with eris
But Hestia with artemis/aphro attack is good too
unreal tree
dont do crit hestia
you'II only cry
not hitting a single damage breakpoint
even divine strike or frost strike are fine due to high %
best build on hestia is aphro strike and smoldering air zeus call
preferably with a dash strike/attack damage chaos buff
@wanton garnet zagreus rail with spread fire artemis strike is also very powerful
it can also do merciful end with doom attack
wanton garnet
Hm
turbid needle
i have insane idea that will make me more preppared for 64 heat
get used to every single punishment first one by one
then start combineing slowly
and eventually
itll happen
lucid oar
Go for it
lucid oar
Just bear in mind that that's what every single high heat player also does 
rose siren
i guess that 32 Heat would have to wait for u
turbid needle
not really
after im done with my current run
im going for 16
then straight to 32
then gradually go up from there
by maxxing out all the punishments slowly
lucid oar
Just bear in mind that when you increase heat linearly, difficulty increases exponentially
turbid needle
good luck
turbid needle
Just bear in mind that when you increase heat linearly, difficulty increases exp...
bro im preped for it XD
how much more preppin
naw no more prep
only action
turbid needle
may my grind begin
valid dagger
Gl
fading panther
Is there a railgun build that isn't as rng dependent as Eris? I don't like havin...
Imo, Eris can work with either Rocket Bomb, Cluster Rockets or Targeting System. All three is good, even when alone. And the chance to get even one on every run is pretty high, you’d get at least one of them almost every run
lucid oar
Delta as well
fading panther
^
proper furnace
Hazard too
polar python
Question: Does a boon like Poseidon affect the area of effect of the Dash-upper for Gilgamesh? Or some of the hammers like explosive upper?
I'm just starting to play with Gilgamesh seriously and want to avoid too many wasted choices.
Obviously anything that can increase area is good.
mild raft
I don’t think Poseidon special affects the aoe for Gilga’s dash upper
Explosive upper is pretty much always a top tier hammer for fists
fresh jewel
Is it possible to get hammers on your first run
polar python
Explosive upper is pretty much always a top tier hammer for fists
So that does affect to AoE on Gilgamesh?
polar python
I don't think it affects the pull radius on Talos
mild raft
It would work on Gilga tho
Not the pull radius but the special itself deals more damage in an area
swift delta
What’s a good talos build?
polar python
What heat?
I got a lot of early clears with Draining Cutter and Explosive Upper. Just get something good on special and cast, and never hit attack again.
Using Poseidon special is hilarious since it's just pinball.
polar python
Damage against bosses is a bit meh with Talos most of the time though.
True, if you can get it.
proper furnace
good old zeus attack works as well
polar python
Zeus on attack, Poseidon on special and get Sea Storm and Jolted 
valid dagger
You could do any % on Special and put Poseidon on Dash instead, this works on a few things like Lucifer Eris Achilles etc
lucid oar
Special only Achilles 
valid dagger
Well I was referring to Zeus attack then that yea, on Achilles the special tends to just be for duos atleast for me, like Smoldering air if I manage to get a good call
lucid oar
Dio special on Achilles is growing on me
Exclusive access and splitting headache are nice
long escarp
I don’t really get why people try to use shackle by putting it on for Tartarus and avoiding attack or special boons for the whole run. Why not just pick up a boon (especially heartbreak strike) and do more damage with an upside?
worn solar
I don’t really get why people try to use shackle by putting it on for Tartarus a...
because meme smh
also funny dialogue
well if you dont take other boons either
long escarp
because meme smh
What’s the meme? Suboptimal damage with no interesting challenge or upside? That’s not much of a meme
long escarp
It’s definitely not that
People just say they want to “try out shackle”
But like… why?
worn solar
curiosity
long escarp
It’s literally just the same as heartbreak strike except it doesn’t give weak and can’t be pommed
worn solar
of how good 2x base dmg is
long escarp
of how good 2x base dmg is
Then use heartbreak strike
sterile fiber
also funny dialogue
have you really experienced the game if you didn't get dad to sniff on you /j
worn solar
smh
subtle star
curiosity <:dusa:522248771409543188>
Exactly...seen so many people do it, and since I am still on lower heat and can risk the experimentation without ruining a run. Will probably do it again with Rama but go completely boonless cause I have not seen the unique Hades dialogue yet...watching someone else doing it versus doing it yourself? The former is not my preferred path, I will have plenty of runs left in me to take an Aphro boon and flex in higher heats when it will have a greater impact 🤷♂️
long escarp
Whatever works for you
I personally don’t get it because it seems like a suboptimal way to play with no upside or additional challenge that makes it interesting
lone jetty
There’s definitely an additional challenge if they’re choosing to leave the shackle on the whole way. That’s no defensive keepsake for dad
I did a 40 heat Hestia where I stuck with it. I think I was doing AP2 for some reason? Was nice to throw on the shackle and be all “whelp build is complete”
ionic crown
why are you so negative
They literally said whatever works for you
fervent elbow
maybe people just want to play and not do maths about boon vs shackle
opaque hare
is wave pounding additive?
cunning urchin
Yeah.
proven osprey
It’s literally just the same as heartbreak strike except it doesn’t give weak an...
it's 100% damage without a pom
long escarp
Yes, I know
proven osprey
of course it's great when your boons are limited
proven osprey
It also affects both attack and special
cunning urchin
Hi, aware.
long escarp
Hi, aware.
subtle star
it's 100% damage without a pom
I mean, it singlehandedly doubles output for 3 offensive moves from the beginning of a run, thus freeing up to take boons that can take it even higher or strengthen other areas that you don't usually get to flex with...it really is not that underwhelming or handicapping, just shifts your power in a different way since you don't have to put anything into those three slots.
proven osprey
It shines when you don't have access to much boons
otherwise, dark foresight and a god keepsake is very strong
long escarp
I mean, it singlehandedly doubles output for 3 offensive moves from the beginnin...
Using it isn’t handicapping. Choosing not to take an attack boon and using shackle for the whole run is absolutely a handicap, and a pretty big one too, limiting not only your keepsakes but also you ability to apply other affects and do more damage
Actually using it even for one region is a handicap
It stops you from using a better keepsake or forcing a god to appear
All that said, it’s still pretty good at 50+ heat if you’re using both AP2 and RI2+
But outside that, it’s extremely suboptimal
Not saying you’re not allowed to use it if you find it fun
Only that it’s extremely suboptimal
opaque hare
maybe for saving time in a super quick start if you get the hammer
get a few extra seconds
long escarp
?
opaque hare
like a quicker tartarus
long escarp
Or just use Pom blossom. Or Sigil. Or hourglass
opaque hare
i mean the very start of the run
long escarp
Or Skull Earing
opaque hare
then change it at asphodel
opaque hare
hmm
long escarp
Than the max 15 seconds you’d save with shackle on a C1 hammer start
opaque hare
ok but hear this
assignment of a boon to a given slot does not void the bonus from the other slots (so for example, if you're forced to take a Cast boon, it does not affect Attack and Special).
that's new for me and i think it's something
so
..
long escarp
What?
opaque hare
it's something
long escarp
You didn’t know that?
opaque hare
nope
opaque hare
proven osprey
like a quicker tartarus
This is absolutely valid yeah, it can be a lot of time save considering the aspect
long escarp
How late do you really expect to get that first boon?
Also, the only time this would be useful is for a seeded run
proven osprey
That's just wrong
If you seed, why would you go for shackle
Shackle is the insurance of getting past the first biome
The thing is you want to get rid of it
But then again it's high heat, worth to consider around 50
When resources are running low
long escarp
Oh yeah if it’s 50+ heat then maybe
At low heat, you’re gonna be taking a god keepsake 10/10 times
Their argument was that it would help with a C1 hammer start
Which you wouldn’t know you’re getting unless you are seeding your run
And even if you did, you would still want to take a god keepsake to make sure you get the god you want
rose siren
i just like to use Hypnos keepsake 1st for the coin
if first keepsake didn't matter that much
proven osprey
It's a good one to start a run yeah
long escarp
If you’re not starting a god keepsake, then coin purse is pretty good
opaque hare
How late do you really expect to get that first boon?
not that late but let's say you pick an attack boon, your special and cast will still do +100% dmg
opaque hare
i think it depends on the hammer aswell
long escarp
Again, if you know there’s a hammer, then your run is already seeded
lucid ferry
There's a big difference between "if I do this can I have fun and make it work" and "is this the best thing to do to win more consistently" - shackle is def the first one
Is it the objective best thing to do? No, of course not, at least not until you get to really crazy heat levels
Can you do it and have an enjoyable experience? Absolutely
It isn't the advice I'd give to someone looking to clear more regularly, but it's a way to play if you want to do that
rose siren
tbh, i still think knowing the 1st room drop hardly matters
proven osprey
Shackle Chiron is 
incarnate
lucid ferry
If you want to do a shackle run you're doing it because you want to do a shackle run
It is probably ideal to get a hammer in chamber 1 if you do, but if you're playing that way, it's because it's a restriction you want to place on yourself and you can make it work if you do that up until a certain heat level
But hey if you get a boon instead, put it on whatever slot matters least to you and get em with your +100%
rose siren
you must have incredibly bad luck if you didn't manage to pick an attack/special until 1st boss 😦
lucid ferry
I would guess that if you're shackling in tartarus that you would actively avoid those things
Unless you want to do it until the end of the run, take a desired core boon, and then manage furies without the +100% on that slot
That's doable too
rose siren
shackle's still bad imo, better long time use like pom blossom or coin
lucid ferry
It is not competitively optimal
But as long as we're not trying to argue that point I think it's interesting to think about how a shackle run would go if you were looking to do one
rose siren
just thinking, shackle as 1st choice for shackle run might not be the best
lucid ferry
When would you take it
rose siren
on hades
long escarp
??
rose siren
pretty much 1st-3rd boss boons come often
fading panther
You could probably manage Tartarus without boon or Shackle
rose siren
to screw your shackle
long escarp
I don’t understand
rose siren
but i guess 3rd boss with shackle is fine
fading panther
But Asphodel and onwards, would be hard
long escarp
Wait I literally don’t understand
rose siren
asphodel, as long as you dun have the trap heat on, i think it's not that hard
long escarp
Why are you waiting to equip Shackle until hades if you’re also not picking up any boons??
rose siren
elysium is when things get hard
because there's cases you would be forced to pick boons
long escarp
And?
Just don’t get an attack boon
Or special
I’m so confused
Also, how does not having shackle help you with that at all?
fading panther
To use coin purse, that’s all
rose siren
in my case, when i did 33 boonless
i also pick the approval process
and have no control of what boon i would ge
get
fading panther
Coin purse in Tartarus, Shackle in Asphodel onwards
long escarp
Right but why aren’t you using shackle still?
rose siren
and it loves to give me attack/special 😦
long escarp
And?
fading panther
Would not go without Shackle in Asphodel imo, I need power
rose siren
actually, gonna ask u something else
long escarp
Ok?
fading panther
and it loves to give me attack/special 😦
We could always just sell boons though
rose siren
do you wanna do shackle run for the 100% olypmian thing?
long escarp
Obviously
fading panther
The game forcing a core boon on you on a boonless run is usually a small problem
rose siren
then, you did know that picking up a boon already screws u that?
long escarp
But having shackle does not affect that in any way. It just increases your damage while you don’t have a boon
fading panther
Only for a few rooms, it’s fine, we can live through a few rooms
rose siren
i think you might as well just play along and choose attack/special, depends your style, then sell it
rose siren
instead of purposely play along with shackle and pick a terrible boon
valid dagger
How much heat are you doing if you have to have ap2 on
long escarp
How much heat are you doing if you have to have ap2 on
At least 50
rose siren
well i did 33 boonless
long escarp
Ok?
valid dagger
idk about you but 33 heat and ap2 dont go together very well
long escarp
If you intentionally pick up an attack boon and use it all the way until Styx where you sell it and put on shackle, is it really still a boonless run? 
fading panther
Well, think of it as in, the game forcing you to pick a core boon, then you probably just had to. What can we do anyway? We can just live with it, and either use said core attack with said boon for a while, or put an extra challenge on ourselves to not use said attack with core boon until we sell it
rose siren
believe it or not, it still could force an attack on u
long escarp
Yes
I know
We are aware
You just keep saying the same things over and over
You’re not even making a point
fading panther
It feels bad, I know, we’ve been there, but that’s just how boonless runs goes
long escarp
Getting an attack boon forced on you isn’t hurt by having shackle. Shackle helps when you don’t have an attack boon, it doesn’t hurt when you do
fading panther
We either just have to break the rule a little, or, well, put on an extra challenge 
rose siren
If you intentionally pick up an attack boon and use it all the way until Styx wh...
no you should still sell all boons after each bos
long escarp
You told me you don’t put on shackle until Styx
valid dagger
I dont even know what we're talking about anymore
rose siren
yes, since shackle could be disabled b4 you reach Styx
long escarp
Don’t unequip it
fading panther
I dont even know what we're talking about anymore
Intricacies of boonless runs and self-imposed rules lmao
rose siren
and most likely
long escarp
Put it on for Tartarus and don’t take it off
rose siren
boon which you're forced to take would offer attack/special
lucid ferry
Theoretically the opportunity cost of effectively not having a keepsake is relevant
long escarp
Ok but they’re arguing to not use shackle until Styx in a boonless run
lucid ferry
If shackle isn't gonna be active on your most used button taking a diff keepsake makes sense
rose siren
alright, i would say from 2nd-rest u could still use shackle
lucid ferry
I don't know if it's gonna work out that way but the logic is there
long escarp
I don’t think it is
rose siren
but 1st, coin is probably the best
lucid ferry
Taking a dead keepsake isn't good, so if the keepsake is gonna be dead, take something else
That's not too hard to follow is it
rose siren
instead of all shackle all the way
long escarp
Unless you assume you’re getting an attack boon in the first chamber of every region and not being able to sell it until after the boss
rose siren
but personally, i like to use the defensive one like the acorn
long escarp
In a boonless run?
rose siren
yes
long escarp
Wow
lucid ferry
I haven't really explored the world of boonless, this is interesting
Might have to try
long escarp
5 hits of invulnerability against the boss of the region is better than +100% attack, special, and cast damage?
Really?
I’m extremely dubious
rose siren
that's assuming you dun have the attack boon
long escarp
Yes
rose siren
but unfortunately
long escarp
Because the odds are not actually that high that you’ll get stuck with one, even with AP2
It’s less than 1/5 for each boon you pick up 
rose siren
that chance is still a bit low, at least to me lol
long escarp
That really doesn’t mean anything to me
lucid ferry
Have you done it
rose siren
i didn't
valid dagger
so you just stall it out and dont care about dmg
long escarp
rose siren
i was using the bow
long escarp
The odds of being forced into an attack boon are insanely low
Especially if you have rerolls
rose siren
actually i didn't have one lol
long escarp
Also I don’t really think you can call it a boonless run if you take multiple attack boons and use them
Lmao
Then why
rose siren
a second please
valid dagger
ri
lucid ferry
Doesn't the game call it boonless
lucid ferry
Sounds quite entertaining
long escarp
Doesn't the game call it boonless
If you sell all your boons before Hades, then you get the title “100% Olympian Free”
valid dagger
It kinda is
lucid ferry
Yeah
rose siren
lucid ferry
I dunno what the boonless category qualifies as
Getting the title is what the game cares about
rose siren
i dun even have the mirror unlock when i did it
long escarp
I stand by everything I said. Not taking shackle because you’re scared of being forced into an attack boon is completely nonsensical and insanely far from optimal. Assuming you’re trying to do the closest to boonless as you can
rose siren
spend over 50 min lol
long escarp
Wow
valid dagger
lmao
rose siren
so yeah, my opinion might not fit your playstyle
long escarp
Just because I did a run with RI4 AP2 doesn’t make me an expert on that either
lucid ferry
Did you clear the secret boss too???
lucid ferry
Dang
rose siren
i did try to avoid boon
lucid ferry
That's really something
long escarp
I’m not telling you how to play, but you seemed to be arguing that it was optimal to not take shackle until Styx which I think is extremely incorrect.
lucid ferry
The 20% discount and 600g left lol
rose siren
they love to give you the miniboss
lucid ferry
Saving the gold for next run
valid dagger
That's really something
I actually cant tell if this is sarcasm
rose siren
noted that i spend 50 min
lucid ferry
I would never be able to do this lol
long escarp
Idk if I’d go that far
valid dagger
Really?
rose siren
u just survive long
lucid ferry
It would be like playing hades with my feet
valid dagger
Lol
rose siren
but TD is just hard with bow
long escarp
I think you’re exaggerating the difficulty of that I’ll be honest
valid dagger
Hmm
lucid ferry
Why are we trying to discount someone else's achievement
long escarp
I’m not
rose siren
the gun with the aoe hammer might be the only way to do high dmg to use TD
long escarp
Sorry I’m definitely not trying to say it’s not impressive
rose siren
but i have my reason to use bow
valid dagger
No I think the pact is interesting, I just dont think that it's that insane considering it took 54min
lucid ferry
It's doable but it is far from what I have done or would do and that seems kinda rad
Especially with so little help from the mirror
And such a super miserable pact
long escarp
I think it’s probably easier than RI4 AP2 tbh
rose siren
git gud just for EM3 isn't hard
EM3 thessus is easier than normal, i think
but it DID last longer
since boss has more hp
and u really wish to avoid mini-boss, since they'll boon u
so expect to fight both bosses at 100%
for boonless run
and tbh, the boss hardly give me trouble
long escarp
I will also be harder if you neglect to use the keepsake that doubles your damage until Styx
rose siren
the worst room is prolly those armored guys with shield
well i was super unlucky with the centaur drop
got so much leftover
XD
i dun think it ever got offered by Charon shop
but then
i was buying DD
anyway, i was just crazy enough to do 33 heat
rose siren
I will also be harder if you neglect to use the keepsake that doubles your damag...
do you plan to do high heat boonless? how much heat?
rose siren
not gonna proof yourself that shackle is the best pick? 😦
rose siren
if u say so
valid dagger
If I was to do 33 heat boonless I wouldnt even consider Ap or Ri so I guess I can't relate
rose siren
lol RI at that attempt is not even an option
i haven't even unlocked the mirror on that file
if i could, would've spend some heat on it for sure
the reroll thing
if u reroll a boon room
felt like there's high chance you reroll into another boon
rose siren
if you reroll skill
well, boonless run, you probably dun really care?
hammer is good
valid dagger
well, boonless run, you probably dun really care?
I don't care as much about it but I'd rather take free heat instead lol
rose siren
not a bad idea to start practicing RI 😄
long escarp
The unseeded world record is 62
rose siren
and they still have RI3 on
long escarp
And second place (not counting the other runs from the person who did 62) is 60 heat
rose siren
so yeah, get used to RI1 or 2, not a bad idea
RI3 without double dash is really the game changer
long escarp
If your end goal is to do 64 heat and you haven’t even beat 56 heat yet, then that’s a bad end goal
rose siren
i dunno, more fun to mess around and try out different heat?
rose siren
well, i'm aiming for Fresh file hell mode atm
long escarp
You said it like this was good advice, not just something you could do for fun
rose siren
it is crazy
long escarp
Have you beat fresh file normal mode yet?
rose siren
yeah
long escarp
Did you record it?
rose siren
nope
long escarp
long escarp
The video?
rose siren
fresh clear normal hardly something to boast
long escarp
That’s not true
proven osprey
It's hard
long escarp
It’s actually extremely hard
rose siren
not hard enough for me 😄
long escarp
And if you don’t have evidence that you did it, then I’m not gonna just believe it sorry
proven osprey
It's just practice in the end but I'd still consider it impressive
rose siren
not like you believe the shackle thing even if i prove it with the boonless 33 heat run
long escarp
?
Just because you won doesn’t mean your strategy was optimal 
I don’t have to “believe” shackle isn’t optimal just because you won without it
rose siren
each person playstyle is different
long escarp
Ok?
rose siren
so yeah, i won't try hard to convince u
and don't matter if you believe me i beat normal mode fresh clear anyway
tbh, i wanna know why u think fresh clear normal is hard
like, which part is, in your opinion, hard?
after all, there's no tight deadline
long escarp
tbh, i wanna know why u think fresh clear normal is hard
Because I’ve put 30+ hours into runs and haven’t beat it.
rose siren
acutally
long escarp
Yes.
long escarp
I’m no pro. I beat 45 heat with 4 aspects but I can’t beat 50
But it was hard
Very hard
Made it to Hades once
proven osprey
It's build and combat, fine tbh
low sinew
What are some good low blood investment aspects? I'm quite early game still (~20 runs in) and only have 1 clear with lvl 1 Chaos Shield. I invested into lvl 2 Chiron but realized it's pretty underwhelming without more investment. Looking to clear content with some other weapons. Any suggestions for aspects and builds?
lucid oar
Hera, Achilles, Poseidon
proper furnace
zeus shield too
low sinew
I actually tried an Achilles cast build but could not get poms on my cast lol. Felt real bad.
lucid oar
Yes
terse thistle
What are some good low blood investment aspects? I'm quite early game still (~20...
Eris. Will carry you far.
proper furnace
eris needs more blood than the others mentioned
terse thistle
Also level 2 Chiron got my first two clears. Just gotta learn to power shot and special. Zeus shield is easy and nemesis is a speedy crit machine
low sinew
hmm, I have 4 bloods right now, maybe I should go for lvl 3 chiron and try lol
really feel my dmg fall off in elysium tbh
with chiron lvl 2
terse thistle
Hangover or doom special are good. Aim for some duo boon with artie or aphro
And casts. Don’t neglect casts
proper furnace
low level chiron wants the +4 special arrows hammer more than max lvl too
terse thistle
Still need to test out chill special
low sinew
I think I also just need to keep leveling up my mirror
I don't even have the last tier of upgrades yet
uplocked yet*
terse thistle
Yeah get those mirrors stuff going. And I can’t stress how good casts are. My win rate went up once I increased the numbers
low sinew
hmm, so on Chiron, I've been going for Aphro attack + Artemis special and try to get heart rend
what dash and cast would you suggest?
I assume athena since it's easiest for new players?
proper furnace
athena/poseidon, first one gives you safety, 2nd one gives you AoE and can destroy styx
lucid oar
They aren't necessary on chiron
long escarp
hmm, so on Chiron, I've been going for Aphro attack + Artemis special and try to...
I like that strategy. That what I go for.
lucid oar
Casts I mean
proper furnace
also if you can grab zeus call, take it and see if you get smoldering air
low sinew
oh interesting
so I basically start struggling clearing rooms in elysium on lvl 2 chiron
I guess I need to use casts more consistently
terse thistle
Chiron great to stack status which is why I mentioned hangover/doom/chill
low sinew
oh, I see
terse thistle
Also fighting asterius and his pet I suggest taking out the pet ASAP. Learn their attack patterns. It gets easier and better trust me
cunning urchin
hmm, so on Chiron, I've been going for Aphro attack + Artemis special and try to...
Tidal Dash for DPS (with lots of poms in it), Divine Dash for additional safety, and Hunter Dash is alright for damage but not really worth pomming. Any other Dash doesn't really matter or affect your DPS or safety much.
terse thistle
And keepsakes. Start friend juicing
cunning urchin
And your Cast doesn't really matter on Chiron.
cunning urchin
If you have Heartbreak Strike and Deadly Flourish, Slicing Shot is always an alright pick for the Duo Boon potential there.
low sinew
also what keepsake to start? whatever special I want?
cunning urchin
what should I be pomming on chiron? the special?
Hunter's Mark.
Also your Call if you can get Smoldering Air.
Or just generally because Chiron builds god gauge pretty fast.
terse thistle
You don’t need to worry too much about pomming. I feel the right boons makes bigger difference. And skelly lucky tooth helps. Don’t forget to unlock the work order for changing keepsakes after each area boss
low sinew
cool, appreciate the tips
just need to get more reps in so I don't lose too many lives before hades
cunning urchin
Poms can matter a lot if you pom boons that scale well. But crit builds on Chiron want Heart Rend, Hunter's Mark (with a couple poms), and Flourish boons from Master Chaos above all.
And decent hammers.
Crits don't really scale with anything else in particular.
Poms on your Special aren't bad, but they don't really do that much, either.
Chimaera Jerkies are also very good.
What else... Lightning Rod is good for DPS. Not something I would deliberately take his keepsake for, but something to look out for at least if you see him in your run.
lucid moth
Hades spear
opaque hare
is it me or fated authority is kinda whack
proper furnace
wdym?
opaque hare
i mean when do you pick this
lucid oar
Max health/gold/poms
proper furnace
memes/boonless
lucid oar
Or if you want to get desciple of x
opaque hare
Or if you want to get desciple of x
that's what i was trying but coulnd't do it
you have to roll a lot to get what your god
opaque hare
you have to roll a lot to get what your god
i wasnt getting a stroke dont worry
i reroll one chamber and dont get what i want and decide to try the next one the same way and before i get my god im at the end of the biome
or how are you supposed to play it
plain prairie
like that basically 👍
proper furnace
you re roll if you dont like the reward/try to get something better, is simple
opaque hare
how often do you play it?
long escarp
i reroll one chamber and dont get what i want and decide to try the next one the...
Idk lol I don’t use Authority
Authority is kinda bad imo
proper furnace
havent used authority in ages
last time was for a how many poms i can put in hangover special with chiron
plain prairie
how manmyw
opaque hare
im thinking maybe use most of your stones to get your god a few times early to get your core build and that's that
proper furnace
how manmyw
20+ i think? i dont remember if i have the screenshot still
lunar pulsar
authority is probably better used for improving the average quality of what you get
I wouldn't be hunting a specific door
opaque hare
yes but when you want a few boons from the same god
lunar pulsar
moreso just removing the really bad things
proper furnace
just be sure to fill your god pool quick or re rolling will be any of the 8 gods
opaque hare
what im trying to do is twin fist attack poseidon and sea storm
and rupture and jolted
plain prairie
yap
opaque hare
so its like 5 boons from zeuz and poseidon
lunar pulsar
if you want specific boons then just use persuasion
plain prairie
sea storm and splitting bolt segs
outer prairie
Probably still have to fish runs to get that deep of two gods
proper furnace
Persuasion still seems better there tbh
outer prairie
But being able to reroll the gods seems more beneficial
plain prairie
Probably still have to fish runs to get that deep of two gods
if all u take is zeus after u put ur main pos boon it’s kinda plausible
nvm
lunar pulsar
authority is for dodging gold with CF, avoiding poms when it won't scale you that much or for avoiding a god that won't add anything
opaque hare
i dont feel like i need persuasion cuz for example if i dont get jolted i can get maybe double strike and stuff like that
im picking a lot of boons from the same gods
i just want the gods
proper furnace
Safe to assume you are using dark foresight right?
opaque hare
authority is for dodging gold with CF, avoiding poms when it won't scale you tha...
interesting
plain prairie
authority is for dodging gold with CF, avoiding poms when it won't scale you tha...
what about do do doing u mam
opaque hare
Safe to assume you are using dark foresight right?
yes
proper furnace
authority is for dodging gold with CF, avoiding poms when it won't scale you tha...
Dodging gold with cf? Why tho
plain prairie
fugg it inflation
lunar pulsar
do you really want a gold door when your gold gives you significantly less?
proper furnace
Yes? Still better being able to buy things at some point that none at all
lunar pulsar
the point is that instead of getting 100 gold, you are getting a boon or health
plain prairie
ideally
proper furnace
and tbf i avoid cf like the plague
lunar pulsar
getting 2 gold doors and buying a health upgrade in the endshop is worse than getting a health upgrade and a boon from normal chambers
proper furnace
Not always i need that +25 hp/boon may be one i dont need really
Gold is also good for charon wells which are always great for extra chaos/buffs/etc
lunar pulsar
half of the time the boon is going to give you more gold anyway if you can purge it
proper furnace
grabbing an unnecesary boon also will hurt my pom choices which isnt something i like tbh
cunning urchin
Taking the reward with the greatest monetary value is a good rule of thumb when you're not sure what to take, but it's only a rule of thumb.
bronze marten
One day you’ll take a trial over patty
vale pier
Just wanted to say, thanks, @cunning urchin for the fun and thoughtfully designed monthly challenge!
So far I died to P3 Hades twice (carried by Cursed Slash)
cunning urchin
So far I died to P3 Hades twice (carried by Cursed Slash)
Good luck! I believe in you! 
cunning urchin
@subtle star as @vale pier pointed out, your run is ineligible for the Triforce of the Gods challenge because of your mirror, unfortunately. You'll have to make a new submission. Good luck!
turbid needle
miss @cunning urchin do you have music reccommendation for listening while playing??
cunning urchin
miss <@!311477984886521856> do you have music reccommendation for listening whil...
For the challenge?
average AP2 selecter — 09/22/2021
made a youtube playlist of the music
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdY5NMbabwQqewIz4cvEZmcaTapnFFUIy
turbid needle
For the challenge?
no in general jut while casually playing
@sterile fiber werent you melonade??
cunning urchin
You could listen to Darren Korb's excellent Hades soundtrack while playing Hades.
turbid needle
ok
subtle star
<@!310883131265908737> as <@!645488132095213579> pointed out, your run is inelig...
Thanks, I noticed that and will work on that today and tomorrow 😬
cunning urchin
Good luck!
granite abyss
So, whats the most duo boons that someone could reasonably try to go for in a run? Cause I had a thought for a fun thing to try and aim for, but I'm not sure if its worth trying to build around getting two specific duo boons and an ideal attack/special/cast set up.
proper furnace
Depends on what gods you pick ig
granite abyss
technically the most you can get is 10 right
I mean, I've also been wondering how many gods even can show up in one run, but thats more personal curiosity. Loading up on all of the duos sounds like a fun meme build.
proper furnace
4 gods naturally + hermes/chaos boons
long escarp
4, but if you already have 4 and use a god keepsake then you can increase that number
granite abyss
Depends on what gods you pick ig
Right now I'm aiming for Zeus/Pos/Dio. Namely mixing Zeus/Pos and Dio/Zeus.
Just drop all of the lightning forever, lol.
proper furnace
Aphro and zeus call for smoldering air can help with that
granite abyss
Oh yeah, I keep forgetting about Smoldering Air. That could make my meme Luc super soaker build even more hilarious.
long escarp
Smoldering Air is arguably the best duo in the game
granite abyss
Oh, 100%. Especially if stacked with other boons that increase god gauge.
long escarp
What?
No you absolutely do not need any other boons that increase god gauge
Smoldering Air gives you a call automatically every 5 seconds
granite abyss
Need? No. But I play for dumb meme builds at this point.
long escarp
Other boons won’t do a lot to make the better
proper furnace
Need? No. But I play for dumb meme builds at this point.
Epic quick favor incoming
long escarp
Need? No. But I play for dumb meme builds at this point.
Well sure but what I’m saying is that those boons are much worse with Smoldering Air than they are without it, since when you have SAir they do next to nothing
sterile fiber
<@!393425923329884162> werent you melonade??
yeah there was an average centaur heart chooser a while ago so I memed along
cunning urchin
So, whats the most duo boons that someone could reasonably try to go for in a ru...
Sounds reasonable enough with Dark Foresight, Gods' Legacy, and Fated Persuasion.
Might take a couple runs to get exactly what you want, but it shouldn't be too hard.
granite abyss
I can definitely get down the attack/special/cast trio I'm going for consistently, so I'm glad it sounds like RNG is largely on my side.
opaque hare
can you get a legendary boon at the trial?
bronze marten
OMG APHRODITE CAL IS SO GOOD SHE ITERALY ONE SHOT THE BONE HYRA FINAL FACE
It def has its uses haha
long escarp
OMG APHRODITE CAL IS SO GOOD SHE ITERALY ONE SHOT THE BONE HYRA FINAL FACE
Still in that situation it’s just a worse version of Artemis call which is considered one of the worse calls
turbid needle
Just no duos
are you sure? i think i got heart rend from a triak
long escarp
You didn’t
terse thistle
My word…. Doom + hangover is such a beastly on Chiron
turbid needle
My word…. Doom + hangover is such a beastly on Chiron
you know what is even more beastly
rocky trail
is there a way to see what builds i used to defeat
how do i spoiler
i beat the final boss on hardmode, twice. is there a way to see what builds i used the times i beat him?
or her
plain prairie
rembr
rocky trail
might have been 5 or more runs ago
plain prairie
admin chamber bottom left of the leftmost hallway
turbid needle
hangover on special and arty on attack and triple shot ... use the special to clear levels and when it comes to the boss fight wait for an opening get up close and shoot sharanga like a friggin shot gun. i swear i chonked meg so hard with it 3/4 her health just went missing
and aphro call to finish her off
10 secs clear of first boss lmao
footage got corrupted tho
which makes it harder to believ
i mean it was a lucky crit so
vale pier
Thanks for the playlist!
cunning urchin
Still in that situation it’s just a worse version of Artemis call which is consi...
...Aphrodite's Aid does more damage.
long escarp
Does it? Lvl 1 common Artemis Aid is doing 10 100 damage arrows with 35% crit chance. So yeah probably. But if it’s Epic, then probably not, right?
proven osprey
Aphro's aid does not care about poms nor rarity
terse thistle
One kiss at max gauge and boom!
terse thistle
Ares call is kinda growing on me a bit. Definitely good at proper times
terse thistle
Like I said, more situational. I finished off dad with it while he lasering
proven osprey
haha
If it was not EM4 you could have done it without the call
You don't take laser damage at point blank range
long escarp
Aphro's aid does not care about poms nor rarity
Right, which is why a higher rarity or level Artemis’ Aid beats out Aphrodite’s Aid
proper furnace
dad loves hugs
terse thistle
But it’s fun. And after getting all the pacts done I feel like i deserve a little just styling at times
terse thistle
Artie aid once shaved off over 30% of dad health but I think I had heart Rend or something applied…
long escarp
35% crit chance though
subtle star
Depending on your boon support for charging aid, Aphro's Aid is like having an extra Battie or 2 in the fight...I have taken Arty's to fight dad multiple times and it has never equaled the chunk damage of Aphro
lean knot
on my last 32 heat aspect, Zagreus sword. What's the move? Merciful End? Smoldering Air cheese?
cunning urchin
The answer is yes.
cunning urchin
If you've done all the other aspects, you're not gonna be having any issues, really.
lean knot
builds were obvious on the other aspects
terse thistle
Nemesis top tier sword imo.
lean knot
I really had to learn to play sword so Nemesis was one of the tougher aspects for me so far
terse thistle
Oddly enough I played lot of Arthur before I used nemesis again and it just clicked
lean knot
had to really redesign my pact to make Nemesis work lol
terse thistle
Yeah… those are annoying but least end result works
long escarp
Nemesis top tier sword imo.
Top tier compared to other swords? Or a top tier aspect that is also a sword? Because I agree with the first one
terse thistle
Swords wise. Nemesis might’ve edged out Arthur for me atm
long escarp
Nemesis is definitely better than Arthur
Especially at high heat
That said, I have yet to beat 40 heat with Nemesis but I’ve done it with Arthur
terse thistle
Arthur just requires more precision on higher heat due to the slow speed. But my word what a swing
slender halo
what cast do you guys go with eris rail special spamming builds
long escarp
Idk why do you even need a cast?
worn solar
yeah doesnt matter as long as it lodges
worn solar
just get whatever lets you get the duos you need
slender halo
i think the only artemis duo i even end up using with rail is heart rend
cunning urchin
Probably just Phalanx Shot. Trippy Shot can be decent, too. The stun can help a lot.
If you're just going for Deadly Flourish as the core of your build, taking Slicing Shot would be good, I would say.
Because that can get you Hunting Blades.
slender halo
maybe the athena one if I get deflect dash
slender halo
the only duo thats not cast based is the aphro, athena and dio ones
and I usually end up with an aphro one
i dont pick hangover buffs since im not applying hangover usually
long escarp
Well more I was saying why heart rend? I don’t think I’ve ever used that boon on rail
slender halo
i put weakness on normal attack
so when special is on cd i would normal to apply weakness and then get bigger crits
what usual duo boons does deadly flourish rail go?
long escarp
Aphrodite attack for rail is pretty terrible
long escarp
what usual duo boons does deadly flourish rail go?
I don’t bother with duos on Eris
Other than maybe Smoldering Air
And obviously I look for Splitting Bolt (Zeus legendary)
lucid oar
Zeus, dionysus
long escarp
Poseidon call is also great
Athena call is good if you don’t have any other defensive options (like delta chamber or divine dash)
slender halo
cause aphro call isnt that good
cast doesnt seem that good
attack isnt good on rail
long escarp
But again, these are only things I look for if I already have at least one of the prerequisites
long escarp
The cast is fine if you already have a good call and a Zeus boon
long escarp
Not really
Zeus boons are almost always gonna be better anyway
For the attack
The special shouldn’t be your primary damage output
Even with cluster rocket
proper furnace
if anything you want special damage from chaos
slender halo
ah ok
long escarp
Oh true special damage from chaos is great for Artemis special, although mainly matter with cluster or rocket (or hazard but you’re doing Eris so probably not that one)
proper furnace
embrace the hazard bomb eris
cunning urchin
what usual duo boons does deadly flourish rail go?
For Eris, any build that's not Lightning Strike start into Tidal Dash is basically not a meta build. So there aren't really any usual Deadly Flourish builds.
Deadly Flourish is one of the boons you would pick up for your Special, but you wouldn't start with it.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
That said, Drunken Strike for Splitting Headache, Passion Dash for Heart Rend, Lighting Strike and Zeus' Aid for Lightning Rod...
Slicing Shot for Hunting Blades.
Maybe even Crystal Beam for Crystal Clarity.
I guess those are what to look for when you start with Deadly Flourish.
slender halo
Alright, do you look for those same boons if you start with lighting strike / tidal dash?
long escarp
Eh sea storm is alright
But for sea storm you need more than just the dash
But yeah mainly just look for static discharge
slender halo
I guess I've been picking the wrong hammers then I guess cause I was always going for rocket, triple special or cluster
long escarp
That’s the best boon you could get
Rocket and cluster are amazing
Especially together
Flurry, targeting, and delta chamber are also good (delta because it gives your dash strike i-frames)
cunning urchin
Alright, do you look for those same boons if you start with lighting strike / ti...
sonic crystal
Hmm what call would you use?
fading nymph
Zeus
proper furnace
zeus principally, tho if you have another zeus boon (dash/special/cast) you can others
sonic crystal
Ok makes sense thank you
fading nymph
Has the best damage if you get jolted and is also a prereq
proper furnace
dio/athena/poseidon/aphro are nice too
slender halo
How exactly do I make a cast build with achilles
proper furnace
for certain casts you also want duo boons to help (i.e slicing shot with hunting blades/demeter cast with artemis duo/dio cast with demeter/zeus duos)
hammer doesnt really matter but flurry jab is always great
#h1-builds-and-combat message <- cast build guide by nyaanyaa @slender halo
lone jetty
Any cast can do some good work with Achilles tbh. I often start Artemis attack and get whichever cast sounds fun that shows up. Potentially harder to Pom it getting it later tho.
If Ares or Demeter show up, it’s duo time.
slender halo
Any specific.mirror choices other than the +2 casts one?
ionic crown
dark foresight always
what even is the alternate to dark foresight I’ve never used it
proper furnace
and god legacy/pride depending what you need the most
ionic crown
maybe like once for the prophecy
proper furnace
what even is the alternate to dark foresight I’ve never used it
+40% chance to rare boons
hollow roost
Any specific.mirror choices other than the +2 casts one?
the regenerative cast is also good, just take every chaos gate you see and roll for +1 cast
verbal tartan
Best call build?
hollow roost
I love Artemis' aid
verbal tartan
What about for spamming calls in general?
hollow roost
zeus
turbid needle
hera is soooooooo strong fuiyoooooooooooo
cunning urchin
What about for spamming calls in general?
You'll want Smoldering Air for that.
worn solar
smouldering air with zeus or poseidon is great for spam plus dmg
rugged geyser
Best call build?
zeus
rocky trail
i remember doing around 1000 damage per coronacht special on lernie
standing close and hitting every arrow
not sure how... maybe chaos gate?
whats a good god to go for to boost that damage?
brisk locust
Artemis , zeus
fading panther
If you mean just Zag bow, Ares works nice as well
fading panther
Zeus and Ares don’t get affected by % damage boost, but Artemis does get it
Zeus and Ares might be more consistent though than Artemis crits
rocky trail
i think its just getting a good hammer for it
lets say i want to reset my run until i get the right hammer upgrade in the first room
is htere a trick to it?
do i need to clear a few rooms and then die on purpose to reset the RNG?
rocky trail
so die in second room and im good?
hollow roost
yep
hearty elbow
It's not the literal worst, depends on how clean your boss fights are
Does a lot to insulate you from random rough BP2 rooms if your bossing is pretty much perfect (takes like... 37 hits to heal from a single HL5 Asterius charge lmao)
turbid needle
Does a lot to insulate you from random rough BP2 rooms if your bossing is pretty...
well i got aphrodite boon that let me take less damage and i have god mode on and arthur special
and cursed slash on arthur isnt bad at all
anyway you want to be avoiding damage at all time
so incase you get chipped here and there
its always nicer to be ale to walk out of boss rooms having taken 0 aparant damage
long escarp
Does a lot to insulate you from random rough BP2 rooms if your bossing is pretty...
Assuming the charge doesn’t just one-shot you, which it very well could thanks to the 60% health reduction
hearty elbow
The point was that if you're running Cursed Slash you probably can't get hit by bosses at all. The tradeoff being that getting chipped in normal rooms is a lot less painful
Didn't say the hammer was great lol, just that it has a good use in a particular situation
long escarp
Yeah exactly
If you are able to do bossfights hitless with Arthur, then you probably don’t need cursed slash anyway because you’re definitely good enough to not use it
hearty elbow
I mean BP2 rooms are still BP2 rooms. You're going to get hit
Non-EM4 bosses are at least more or less static. Mono blue-lernie head aside
long escarp
Yeah but if one of those benefits is slugger then you really don’t want cursed slash
cunning urchin
Cursed Slash Excalibur is honestly not too bad.
wanton garnet
Are crit fist builds any good?
I really wanna do one, but if the DPS is massively less than Merciful End, then I probably won't
hearty elbow
Heavy Knuckle crit is fine. Not meta by any means but gets the job done
turbid needle
nothing is gonna top ME
hearty elbow
ZAP is probably the best route to go if you don't feel like rolling the ME dice
cunning urchin
Any builds that could have hoped to maybe rival ME were nerfed more than ME ironically lol.
lucid oar
Even zap is better than crit yeah
wanton garnet
What is zap?
cunning urchin
ME got a slap on the wrist.
lucid oar
What is zap?
Zeus attack Artemis special Poseidon dash
hearty elbow
Zeus (attack) Artemis (special) Poseidon (dash)
Artemis is more or less interchangable with whatever damage god
cunning urchin
Best Malphon build is Divine Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Hunter Dash, Deadly Reversal, Support Fire, Heart Rend, Spent Spirit.
Good times.
hearty elbow
the hell is spent spirit
long escarp
What did spent spirit do?
cunning urchin
the hell is spent spirit
You should know.
long escarp
Also, is Hunter dash a prereq for DR? It’s not right (I assume that it wasn’t always that way)?
hearty elbow
I only started at the end of Nighty Night lol, so it's possible I shouldn't
cunning urchin
Also, is Hunter dash a prereq for DR? It’s not right (I assume that it wasn’t al...
It was in Early Access.
long escarp
Gotcha
cunning urchin
Spent Spirit was the Lady Aphrodite + Lady Athena Duo Boon.
long escarp
The two best high heat gods have no duo boon 
hearty elbow
Lol, I mean yeah, I guess you could call it blood pressure, that's not too far off. Benefits Package
They give elite mobs 1 or 2 (depending on rank) from a list of possible perks
long escarp
Which can lead to some very bad rooms
turbid needle
Cursed Slash Excalibur is honestly not too bad.
if miss nya nya say its not bad i dont want no one else opinion
nya nya is god
long escarp
cunning urchin
Nyaanyaa*
turbid needle
oh
long escarp
By “not too bad”, she doesn’t mean it’s a great idea
turbid needle
oop
cunning urchin
@hearty elbow @long escarp Spent Spirit is Calculated Risk.
turbid needle
By “not too bad”, she doesn’t mean it’s a great idea
i still beat hades taking 2 damage XD
long escarp
Oh. So it still sucked anyway
cunning urchin
Calculated Risk is good.
valid dagger
I mean it’s decent
hearty elbow
Calculated Risk is non-zero lol
valid dagger
Makes a lot of things a lot easier to manage
cunning urchin
Calculated Risk on Malphon with Divine Strike is pretty amazing tbh.
long escarp
i still beat hades taking 2 damage XD
If you beat Hades nearly hitless than you probably don’t need cursed slash