h1-builds-and-combat

[fading panther]

Yeah, but does it only affect the initial hit of the beyblade? Because after those first few hits, the blades is on top on said enemy, right? Theoretically?

[proper furnace]

From what i remember at least with hunting it goes back and fowards while on the enemy, so sometimes it hitted the enemy back again

[fading panther]

I see

[proper furnace]

I would try and recreate but i dont want a 4 god pool required for that

[proper furnace]

You know what i think i just imagined slocing shot backstabbing

[opaque hare]

i just did aswell but only a few hits, it's akward

if im not mistaken

[proper furnace]

hunting blades or slicing alone?

[opaque hare]

slicing alone

but i was hitting with other stuff so idk if it did backstab

[proper furnace]

got hunting and parting, time to check

yeah it def backstab

[fading panther]

I’m still baffled lol

Cool, I guess

[proper furnace]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/751198390892888294/885961104839303199/2021091015522201-C7D8C4153CC9802713604F54C53304E0.mp4
Can see the backstab text appear on the sword dude at the bottom

[fading panther]

Could it be that the game just considers the blades to backstab whenever it’s on top of enemies? Seems like it from the video, since it is spinning, the red borders of the blades going front and back and front over and over again

Seems like it

[idle sun]

I'm still new to builds and all that

[fading panther]

That’s fine, if you have any questions, just ask, someone will help

[idle sun]

I usually have fun with Artemis/Aphrodite/Athena boons

but I also think I want to try more runs with the Twin Fists

[fading panther]

Athena dash is always good

For fists, try Merciful End

Or Poseidon dash

[proper furnace]

for hera is preferable triple shot or flurry? or just personal choice

[cunning urchin]

Flurry.

[idle sun]

I'm definitely not a cast person

[sterile fiber]

what is Artemis Cast good for

[proper furnace]

open a duo?

[worn solar]

if you get a bunch of +cast damage the crits are gunna be beeg

if you crit

[turbid needle]

aspect of arthur is good

[worn solar]

it goes through shields too i guess

[polar python]

Do crits affect shields more than just from the extra damage? Are crits piercing?

[worn solar]

artemis cast just goes through shields like theseus' or the elysium warriors' ones. crit can do extra damage to armor but that needs another boon

[subtle star]

Also, Arty cast is “homing” so it will always hit an enemy…unless you are point blank in front of a barrier

Her cast with Hera bow is also a good crowd control build

[cunning urchin]

There's no crowd control with that on Hera.

You'll want something with AOE.

[flat summit]

Is high confidence good?

[worn solar]

not for clearing safely

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, the +25% global damage is pretty good.

But if you're struggling to win at all, probably not.

[flat summit]

What about hydraulic might the poseidon boon

[languid forum]

which one is high confidence

+25% first hit damage

[flat summit]

Deal more when high health

[bronze marten]

fiery presence

is that one

[languid forum]

ohh

[cunning urchin]

Hydraulic Might is alright. It's not gonna make or break a build.

Fiery Presence is +75% first-hit damage. High Confidence is +25% damage when you have more than 80% HP.

[languid forum]

it's uesful if ur doing a lambent plume run imo

i see

thank you

[bronze marten]

yeah, you're trading out 50 starting health for it

but if you're confident in your ability to dodge

[blissful cypress]

I wish i was good enough to use high confidence

[bronze marten]

itll help

[cunning urchin]

Hydraulic Might you mean? Not that much. But it doesn't hurt.

You'd probably rather want his Dash and the t2 boons for that, though.

[languid forum]

oh ok

i thought that as u want to clear rooms quickly the extra damage would help

[neon trout]

That’s your problem! You need to believe in yourself! And the high confidence will come 😇

[bronze marten]

Poseidon dash is so good

I did Achilles spear with Poseidon dash and it became this whole sea storm thing and I took the rose in elysium but didn’t get smoldering

[terse thistle]

poseidon dash plus some zeus power = chef's kiss. also i tried eris, i kinda like it but i don't fully feel what makes it good

[proper furnace]

+75% Global damage is strong

[worn solar]

eris rail with zeus attack and splitting bolt

[proper furnace]

Hangover boosted by eris

[terse thistle]

writing all this down

[proper furnace]

But yeah the fact eris gives you +75% damage to anything you do is great from calls/dash/casts etc

And you pretty much have it always up

[worn solar]

and if you get cluster rockets

[cunning urchin]

https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/

[polar python]

Does 16 heat count as high (e.g. should I be in #h1-high-heat-strategies )? I'm going for the 2nd skelly statue and am currently on 12 heat. Rather than going up incrementally, I was considering just going for a 16 heat run (bow or fists) and was looking for ideas for pacts and builds.

I'm fine with EM3 but tend not to be super fast, so TD2 is mostly my limit right now.

[long escarp]

High heat leaderboard starts at 32 heat

I personally don’t feel comfortable calling my runs “high heat” unless they exceed 40 heat

But that’s just me

[molten cosmos]

Hi everyone! Im currently on 40 attempts and my best run so far was hades second phase 50%. What would u guys / girls say is the easiest weapon and build to beat the game the first time? If it matters I unlocked aspect of chaos, achilles, nemesis, chiron and eris

[polar python]

I got 6/8 clears with fists, but my first clear was the rail with cluster bombs.

[molten cosmos]

thats funny, Ive been trying like 10 runs in a row with rail and swapped to shield and on first try I got further then I ever did with rail

[polar python]

Other than that, Chiron slaps.

That's what I love about the game is so much about personal preference and play style.

[molten cosmos]

yeah its so mutch fun! picked it up yesterday and cant stop playing 😄

[polar python]

Talos fists if you can unlock them are a lot of fun.

Draining cutter gives you 2% health back for killing things with the special

[lone jetty]

Of those without a lot of Titan Blood, probably Chiron with Drunken Flourish or Achilles might be your best bets

[molten cosmos]

thx mate will try that out!

[polar python]

So if you get to Styx with death defiances you're unlikely to lose them.

Chiron is strong even ungraded

[lone jetty]

Achilles you can either go melee bonkers with Flurry Jab, Tidal Dash, and Lightning or Deadly Strike. Or lean into casts a bit more. Achilles maybe slightly prefers the non-lodging casts and duos like Dio/Demeter/Ares, but any are strong

[polar python]

Anything which stacks on the special is good (so not doom, but hangover)

[lone jetty]

Doom can be ok with Dire Misfortune

[polar python]

Yeah but you might not get it

[lone jetty]

But that’s 2 boons. Hangover wants poms yeah

[polar python]

Lightning on Chiron is also good.

[proper furnace]

zeus on chiron is the same case as doom

you want more zeus boons to work well

[lone jetty]

Lots of Zeus is so good that it’s still totally viable

[polar python]

True, double strike is going to make a big difference

[lone jetty]

If you wanna high roll, Tempest Flourish into Sea Storm and lots of Zeus is

That’s fun on Chaos aspect also

Anything that spreads Jolted status is a good time

[polar python]

Actually, isn't Zeus better than Doom on Chiron? If I hit an enemy with all the shots of a special I inflict just one doom effect, but don't you get multiple lightning strikes?

Or is there a limit to how often lightning can be triggered?

[lone jetty]

There’s a cool down. 2 strikes per volley is typical

On Chiron

You can get 3 shooting at weird angles

Still, 2-3 bolts per special isn’t bad

[subtle star]

Maybe try Zag first with Plume keepsake to up your dodge...go for Zeus attack and Poseidan special & dash then seastorm duo? Especially by Styx, the destruction that ensues is fun!

[polar python]

One of the things the helped me was realising that a bunch of boons which help you get to Dad can be largely ineffective once there because of the one on one nature of the fight (e.g. chain lightning). Sometimes it might even be worth selling in Styx to afford new boons at the shop.

[terse thistle]

well my recent first clear on ps4 was with chiron so there's that, but it depends on which weapon you enjoy the most

i can't stress this enough: outside hermes you only get 4 gods total for boons so choose accordingly for best synergy on the weapon and build you want

[molten cosmos]

woho! before I got to try any of ur tips I completed a deathless run 😄 thx for all responses! now I´ll try each of ur tips and see if I can farm some titan blood 😄

[lone jetty]

Nice! Keep on going it gets easier as you practice, power up aspects, and pump darkness into the mirror

[long escarp]

Lightning on Chiron special is actually not as good as it seems, since the game has an internal lightning timer. So each special will only get 2 or 3 bolts, and not the full 8

It works the same with sea storm

[long escarp]

It’s worse than the weakest other special boon. So I’d highly advise against it

The best is Artemis for sure

Dionysus and Aphrodite are good damage, and Demeter will nearly fully chill an enemy with a single volley which is very strong

[worn solar]

low lvl chiron is kinda meh

[lucid oar]

Yup

[proven osprey]

It's not so bad with global damage. I considered it a very valid option for my 50 heat clear

It also brings the aoe Chiron lacks

[long escarp]

Hmm

I’ll believe it

It is kinda surprising though, considering how much weaker it is than the other options

For super high heat, I figured it’s gotta be Artemis, Dio, or Demeter

[proven osprey]

In the end you rely on a hammer

The aoe and jolted makes up for the bad base damage (because of the limit of hits)

Of course Artemis and chaos will scale better

[crisp venture]

My fav build is ice wine with curse of nausea

[terse thistle]

Ok I really like eris now, I lost to hades on his second phase… but I’ll get him soon enough. The first upgrade damage boost is insane… literally doubled

I don’t think I wanna use another gun aspect ever again

[bronze marten]

Just wait til u max out blood, it’ll be super based

[terse thistle]

Yeah I figured… like dropping nukes

[neon trout]

Struggling with fists working on heat 30 on bow but any thoughts on an easy aspect on fists and build? I’d like to get everything at least to 17 heat

[cunning urchin]

I wrote a short guide for Demeter Aspect here: #h1-builds-and-combat message

[neon trout]

👍

[terse thistle]

Enlighten me on why Demeter aspect is so good. I’m definitely trying new stuff on my ps4 file

[solar dawn]

Big special nuke go brr

[neon trout]

@cunning urchin you are amazing I just tried first try your guide on heat 17 and GG clears it with fists!!!

Thank you!

[cunning urchin]

Nice! Well done!

M glad it helped.

[neon trout]

@cunning urchin it dominated 😇

[frail adder]

Anybody have any good builds for the bow? I don't have hidden aspect yet, & I can get all the way to hades but not past him

I didn't get any divine dash or anything this run either which sucked

I don't understand dash strike with bow lol

[boreal prism]

dash striking with bow makes the bow charge up faster and deal a bit less dmg

practice with skelly

[proven osprey]

Zag bow with either deadly strike or heartbreak strike and aim for heartrend (preferably deadly but aphro comfy). Don't dash strike with both input at the same time but dash then attack

[worn solar]

zag bow for early on is very good since you can max lvl it cheaply

[proven osprey]

And it's very effective

[worn solar]

yeah dont need much other than artemis attack and heartrend with either triple or double shot

depending on tartarus rng you can also go artemis + aphrodite + athena and have both the arty/aphro and arty/athena duo boons

[terse thistle]

I’ve won twice with Chiron, I use aphro on attack and either ares or dio on special.

[frail adder]

Thanks alot guys!

[gusty basalt]

Guys, does aspect of nemesis crit chance work with dash attacks?

[proper furnace]

yes

[opaque hare]

damn tigh deadline 3 is hard when you want some chaos

[long escarp]

Basically it just does more than the other fist aspects. It’s not exactly that it’s incredibly strong, more that it’s ability is better than Talos’ magnet and Zag fists’ dodge chance. Also, hitting so many times with the special can be a powerful burst of damage, especially against bosses.

[terse thistle]

sounds cool, i like it

[long escarp]

Wouldn’t it be easier when you get Chaos? Chaos is a free room where you don’t have to fight any enemies

[long escarp]

Yeah it’s kinda fun

It’s just unfortunate that fists doesn’t have any super interesting aspects. Fun aspects that make you play the weapon differently, like how Hera, Hestia, Beowulf, Achilles, and Poseidon all make you play the weapon very differently

Fists doesn’t have an aspect that makes you play the weapon very differently, unless you count Gilgamesh for being really bad, or Talos for having a really slow special

[frail siren]

Tips on chiron bow

any combos or good builds

special doesn’t feel like it does as much damage as I’d like it to

[raw blade]

artemis special

aphro attack

get heart rend

possibly the only situation where empty inside

is useful

[frail siren]

any attack combos

[raw blade]

yeah just tag the foes with ur main attack once and then special while focusing on dodging

also for hammers you wanna get conc volley or relentless volley

[frail siren]

ok thx

bow on m+kb bad

imo

also which situations should I rely on special

Are there situations where just depending on attack is better

[worn solar]

well with the chiron bow youre mostly speccing it for the special

the attack is mainly used to tag targets and put debuffs on them

in tartarus though you can use the attack to kill weaker enemies

[rugged geyser]

chiron bow is also good with dio special

[raw blade]

hellz yeah

[rugged geyser]

go for heartbreak strike

try to get dio duo boons with aphro and ares

[raw blade]

and curse of vengeance

[long escarp]

Wait why curse of vengeance? Just because it’s a prereq for Curse of Nausea?

[raw blade]

yis

[languid forum]

Which companion is the best for em4 hades

[long escarp]

In my opinion, Meg is always the best companion (except for meme runs such a max gold)

Nyaa may argue that Fidi is actually best for EM4 though, but that is a much less popular opinion

[languid forum]

OK thx

Thabatos isn't that hard to hit tho

[long escarp]

It’s much harder to hit than Meg, especially against the potentially fast summons from Hades in phase 1

[valid prism]

Probably tough to hit him during phase 1 but using Mort during the rest of the fight is completely fine when he's firing laser

But most of the time the hard part of EM4 is to get rid of P1

[long escarp]

Exactly

[lone swallow]

build rec for beowulf ?

[lucid oar]

Flood flare, deadly strike, mirage shot

And charged shot if you can

[lone swallow]

thx 🙏

[long escarp]

You can also go for Passion Flare, which has better damage

Downside is that it’s not a prerequisite for Mirage Shot

So you may need a little bit more RNG for that

[languid forum]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/763094477862207551/886644664642469888/unknown.png?width=755&height=676

how do i get the ??? music

[sterile fiber]

you probably already have them unlocked at the contractor, just buy them there

When Beo, what do I do while waiting for the casts to float down after a rush

[proven osprey]

you don't wait

You go for a rotation like 2 casts > rush > 1 cast > rush and you go back and forth to retrieve the stones

because you don't need the triple cast every time and you'll waste time if you only triple load

[turbid needle]

with beowulf shield, which hammers should I aim for?

whats a decent aspect to use dionysus for? ive never used him as a god overall so

[strange lark]

chiron

aphro attack, dio special, low tolerance

you can also get curse of vengeance from ares for curse of nausea

[turbid needle]

im guessing start with dio

and is chaos useful

yes

[strange lark]

for this build not really

[turbid needle]

very

I like chaos

well ik chaos is good

but i was asking for the build

might take 1 chaos for extra special or smth

[fiery condor]

what builds are reccommend for aspect of arthur?

the main ones ive been going for are

Divine Flourish, Divine Dash, Blinding Flash, Artemis Aid, Deadly Reversal, Pressure Points, Hunter's Mark, Heartbreak Strike, Heart Rend, Sweet Surrender

and

Deadly Strike, Pressure Points, Hunter's Mark, Heartbreak Flourish/Crush Shot, Heart Rend, Drunken Dash, Low Tolerance, Splitting Headache

or sometimes sorta a mix of the two

but those are the main 4 gods I go for, I'm just curious if theres some other combo im not considering that would work well

[long escarp]

Heartbreak Strike is definitely better

Divine dash is always helpful

Beyond that, I just take anything good

[languid forum]

pressure points is nice for when you get the odd crit with heartbreak strike imo

hunter's mark is also nice

shadow slash is what u want imo

[fiery condor]

oh yeah

i just didnt include hammers or hermes boons cuz i dont ever see a reason to not go for faster attack and shadow slash

[languid forum]

double edge or shadow slash

[fiery condor]

ehhh

[languid forum]

rush delivery is always nice

[fiery condor]

double edge is alr but tbh id rather take breaching slash or if i have the hermes gold boon hoarding slash

yes i know hoarding slash is bad lol but its fun to build around every now and then

also i cant remember what its called but the projectile one can be fun sometimes too, helps with rats plus extra crit chance

its pretty mediocre but so are most of the hammers for sword

[long escarp]

Shadow Slash is… not great

Double edge and breaching slash are best

Greater Consecration is nice in my experience

[fiery condor]

????????

we playing the same game?

[long escarp]

Yes

It’s not great

[fiery condor]

i mean

i disagree, I find backstabs easy to get with arthur but thats just me

[strange lark]

shadow slash is the best hammer for arthur

[long escarp]

Is it actually?

[strange lark]

its not good on the other sword aspects tho

since it doesnt apply to dash strikes

[long escarp]

Alright I guess I’m crazy then

[fiery condor]

yeah

nah

youre not crazy for having your own takes

[long escarp]

It never felt very great to have

But I’ll trust

[fiery condor]

try heartbreak strike, Divine Dash, And Blinding Flash (also obv shadow presence) on arthur with shadow slash, and watch your third hit deal insane damage from behind

if you crit with that easy 4k+ damage

[long escarp]

I did 40 heat with Arthur the other day, with shadow slash actually

I also had epic backstab damage from Chaos

[fiery condor]

yeah

tbh

with the choice from chaos of like

40% attack damage or 80% backstab, i take the backstab

[long escarp]

I doubt that’s correct though tbh

But maybe that’s just me

[iron locust]

To add to this, since Arthur is slow, Battle Rage is actually useful when you can apply it

Doesn't always land, but it is noticeable when you do

Also, I don't know whether this was noted or not

But Crystal Alacrity, outside of ludicrous potential for damage, can net some insane God Gauge Gain

So getting the cast set up is one thing, that being Artemis / Demeter to line up your weapons and cast

But Zeus as a support is insanely good

Clouded Judgement + Demeter Cast provides some insane gains

So Zeus' Aid, combined and paired with Billowing Strength, and Clouded Judgement, is seriously busted

Along side the insane Cast DPS you got going on

[long escarp]

Yeah Arthur is one of the aspects where BR is good

[iron locust]

What Fourth God should one pick up then?
@strange lark @lucid oar Bringing it here because I don't want to flood Victory Boasting

So Artemis, Poseidon, and Aphrodite

[strange lark]

Dem

[lucid oar]

Demeter for snow burst and ravenous will

Or maybe Zeus for smoldering, but dem is better

[iron locust]

Presumably
Aphrodite Cast
Poseidon Dash
Artemis Attack/Special
Demeter then?

[strange lark]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/659820450297282585/880877897362063400/Screenshot_425.png

[lucid oar]

No cores needed from demeter

[iron locust]

Right, the Ravenous Will boon does the funny same with Hera Bow

[strange lark]

Just add arty attack and Poseidon special/dash

[lucid oar]

Yeah just get epic cast damage and pommed heroic passion flare at 50 heat

[iron locust]

Inb4 Bouldy +5% cast buff

[lucid oar]

And epic RD

Thats a nice way to beat 50 heat

me with my level 2 cast

[iron locust]

Not just that though

Look at that 100%+ Cast Damage on the 4 casts

That's 8 * 250 + RD

[strange lark]

And the ruthless reflex buff is very pog

[lucid oar]

Yep

[iron locust]

That's like what

[lucid oar]

Most of my damage was coming from Zeus aid

[iron locust]

3000? 4000? Per full nuke?

[lucid oar]

Not quite

I'll calculate it quickly

[iron locust]

I don't quite know when stuff is added multiplicatively and not

[strange lark]

Add in the PS buff

[iron locust]

One thing I do find funny is that the Aphrodite Boon that makes enemies with weak takes more dmg also factors the Summons

[lucid oar]

Jesus, 4000 on the dot pretty much

Snow burst tips it over

[iron locust]

So I was right then lol

[lucid oar]

All of this damage apart from the extra cast is additive

[strange lark]

The funny thing is that I just did that run bc I was bored

[iron locust]

Oh lol, Snow Burst on PS

[lucid oar]

It's just that there is a lot of additive damage

[iron locust]

Short bursts of full casts, plus all of the above, plus the 40% from PS

That's nuts

[lucid oar]

And RR

This might be the quickest run ever with EM4 JS3 CP2

No damage control, so it's not quite poggers

But it's close

[iron locust]

Oh right, I've been meaning to ask

Does DC negate just damage, or side effects too?

[lucid oar]

Not sure exactly what you mean, it's used up by stuff like hangover though

[iron locust]

So if I tapped an enemy with a single blow of let's say Ares' Attack. Will it apply doom?

On DC2

[lucid oar]

Yep

[iron locust]

Ah, then yeah I imagine Dio eats it up

[turbid needle]

Does Demeter cast plus Achilles aspect increase each instance of damage the beam does?

[lucid oar]

No, the full 4 casts get the damage buff, not the first 4 hits from the cast

So it's really strong

[turbid needle]

Yeah that's what I meant, each tick of damage is increased for the whole thing? Sweet.

[iron locust]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/488372248646778891/886764936657788959/Hades_345.png?width=1249&height=702

I died

But I did get the thing going

Level 11 Passion Flare
All the duo boons
Snow Burst
No Ravenous Will though

[strange lark]

Why did you fight charon

And why did you take conch shell into styx

[iron locust]

Well for starters - Charon was in Asphodel, Ares was the only option moving forward and I got lucky bailing out with Charon since later on I got Artemis Miniboss (Which handed me the Special)
Conch Shell into Styx - I was missing Mirage Shot, and I wasn't about to gamble not seeing Poseidon going into EM4. And guess what? It paid off, though, not that it mattered much later

[strange lark]

Damn that run was stinky

[iron locust]

Was promising, but running into several greatshields that refused to budge combined with the damn sneaking lazers chipped a good 40% of my health late game

At least I dragged Hades down to Phase 3 before dying to the good old trap + lazer death

Oh and I also decided to bomb rush 32 despite this being my 8th, maybe 9th time running with Beowulf

I normally at least go for 23, which is EM4, FO2, plus mandatory stuff like BP1 MM TD2

(Since I already did EM4 FO2 with Zeus I thought "How bad can this be?")

And considering my previous 32 heat runs, not that bad actually

[surreal lava]

phase 3?!?!?

[turbid needle]

Extreme measures 4 can go die

[iron locust]

It's not that bad

Just need some luck and timing

[strange lark]

My 50 heat beo run was all luck

[iron locust]

I beat EM4 with FO2 on 4/6 of my weapons so far

I'm working on Spear and Fists next. I've yet to do those with them.

Fists outright die for me lol

[turbid needle]

I'm just salty because I haven't done it yet and my last attempt he was pixels away from death lol

[iron locust]

Guess I should pull good ol ME at some point

What weapon were you running?

[turbid needle]

Achilles spear

[iron locust]

Demeter Cast run I'm assuming?

[turbid needle]

Yup

[strange lark]

Achilles isn't the best at the em4 fight

[iron locust]

I can see why you're salty. That build isn't always easy to set up, and sometimes you just get outright crapped on

[strange lark]

Oh

Meme beams can destroy em4

[iron locust]

Huge asterisk on the 'can' there

[strange lark]

Yeah lmao

[iron locust]

Stygian, extra casts, extra damage, good Glacial Glare, PP, Prometheus Stones

There's just a lot to factor

But yes, just keep in mind

For every god meme video you see of Demeter Cast Achilles runs

There's probably 2 dozen unseen failed attempts setting them up

If you want to tide it safely though, I'd pick up Artemis Aid and burst them down as a finisher

Demeter Cast has some insane God Gains that it is honestly hilarious that the DPS is what makes it special and not the God abuse

Oh and Hermes with the Cooldown Reduction is huge too

[turbid needle]

The Poseidon dash plus Ares attack with triple dash strike was doing me well too

[iron locust]

Going for Mirage Shot I see, that'd help too

[turbid needle]

Well I didn't get that in that run

[iron locust]

One of these days I intend to try Ares Demeter duo as a run

Maybe see if it can mix with Hunting Blades too

Speaking off, you're probably safer trying Achilles Hunting Blades if you ask me

[turbid needle]

What's annoying is sometimes you just don't end up with a comfortable boon set

[iron locust]

Not as much meme potential DPS

But going for it + Disciple of Ares is a safe bet

Bigger, better, bonkers blades

[turbid needle]

So art and ares

[iron locust]

You can try and see how that goes

And hopefully get Ares Legendary too

Oh, and before I forget

Get a good God Aid as well

Ares blades is just as good as Demeter Laser for building God Calls

[turbid needle]

Yeah they really help

[iron locust]

Zeus is a safe bet

Aphrodite / Athena if you want to play it safe

Poseidon is also good, but I do not recommend it for EM4

Last thing you want to do is use it and be forced to step into the vats

[turbid needle]

Artemis call seems to be pretty good no?

[iron locust]

I don't know, and I do not recommend it for much

It's great for finishing off phases of bosses

But if you want to survive/deal more reliable damage

The ones I suggested would be a tad bit better

(Not to mention, sometimes you can get screwed hard by Artemis and only land 1200 damage. It DOES happen.)

[turbid needle]

Ares call it is then

[iron locust]

Athena for immunity
Aphrodite for Stunning
Zeus for insane DPS potential

Ehhh we don't recommend Ares Aid

Last thing you want to do is catch yourself inside the boss at a bad time

[strange lark]

Ares call stinky

[iron locust]

Zeus aid is where your money is at for raw damage + potential if you pick up his Aid Assisting Boons

Billowing Strength for example

Global 20%+ damage buff for a fat amount of time

That stuff lasts

[worn solar]

athena aid with smouldering air

[turbid needle]

I never seem to do much damage with Zeus call

[iron locust]

Of course, you need to be near the boss

But its good

Just gotta be smart

Plus like, Double Lightning is hilarious with it

More power

And those bolts are affected by damage buffs, just so you know

Privileged Status, Broken Resolve, etc etc

Even Eris's stupid Empowered

[worn solar]

smouldering air poseidon aid with rip current

and eris buff

[iron locust]

Rip Current is kinda memey for me

It's fun, for sure

But it's kinda weird

A tier 2 for the Aid specifically

[strange lark]

I've only picked up rip current once

[iron locust]

I mean look at Zeus' Tier 2s

Jolted, Fat bolts, Double Strike, LIGHTNING BOLT LEGENDARY

That stuff affects all his special and aid

(Not to mention Clouded Judgement too)

Then Rip Current, exclusively for Poseidon's Aid

Well at least Poseidon had other Tier 2s that are good

Razor Shoals, Pounding Waves, uhhhh

The water blast one

That's funny in styx

I would say Poseidon's kit is bad, but there's two that stand out for me

That's the early fight damage buff, and the one that deals more damage to bosses

Those are neat

[sterile fiber]

Man Ares call is clunky even with a blade rift build

[boreal prism]

Ares call would be so much better if you were still able to use your weapon

[sterile fiber]

maybe pulse stackable Doom around you while you can still attack

how much does Distant Memory need to be buffed to be viable, if at all

[quartz fractal]

i wish more of the aids synergized as much as zeus can with his

ares kinda has it but its not nearly as strong as his

[proper furnace]

wdym, ares doesnt have a call

[iron locust]

Well let's go over the steps
Artemis is pure chance with damage. Two very baseline mechanics that aren't quite buffable without completely breaking something else.

Aphrodite is based around the Charmed mechanic. Able to pacify enemies at will, but the same applies to her Legendary, and buffing a mechanic only 2 boons have isn't exactly logical.

Athena has pure invulnerability with added deflect. Deflect can be buffed by Tier 2s with Risposte and I think Exposed works with it too? It's just highly situational.

Poseidon has more synergy with his own boons now that I compare the above, but Rip Current is an exclusive buff to it, which not to mention, most of his supportive boons are flat boost in damage or rewards. Already weirdly built.

Ares has actual synergy with his own aid. The problem is the mechanic itself. Maybe if his blades dealt more damage overall it would be worth putting yourself at risk, and the added invulnerability is also neat. But in its current state, invulnerability isn't that rare, so it feels lackluster.

Demeter has some aid synergy with her own Tier 2 boons. Killing Freeze which adds Decay, and that Chilling Blast when it hits to 10 stacks, provides some pretty good Full Room area control. Not too bad, early game, that is.

Dionysus is a weaker version of Zeus' aid, all things considered. Same area of effect around the player, except with the much lackluster Hangover effect, which, needs some serious Pom Attention to be viable later on. He has some duo boons that sorta help with that? Like Curse of Nausea and Splitting Headache, but other than that, Hangover is eh.

And then along came Zeus.

What does Zeus have going on for it?
Serious DPS provided target is within melee range of the player. Risky, you do not have invulnerability, and it is damage you do not exactly control (Outside of causing it to prompt)

What can his own boons do?
Jolted - Pacifies enemies by making their next attack hurt them
Double Strike - Radically increases overall DMG with the Aid by 20-35%
High Voltage - Smacks more enemies, AoE control
Splitting Bolt - Enhanced AoE. Basically all Bolts does what the Zeus Attack does.

Indirectly, he also has:
Clouded Judgement - While the Aid itself cannot gain gauge, getting the Tier 2s listed above (You're going to want to anyways) will improve Aid frequency by a lot in nature that the buff applies to any instance you deal damage. I do not know if this applies to DoTs, but considering that PP is worded the same way, this would mean that, presumably, whatever PP can buff, CJ can gain.
Billowing Strength - All things considered, 20% damage buff doesn't sound that much, but it leads me to believe that this is a global buff, on par with Eris's Empowered. But the big reason why this boon is so damn good is that it lasts 15 freaking seconds.
(For reference, Eris's Empowered lasts 4 seconds.)

[cunning urchin]

Dionysus' Aid is stronger than Zeus' Aid by themself.

All Calls give i-frames on activation.

[lucid oar]

Yeah Dio call is very nice

Off topic, but does Poseidon call benefit from movement speed?

Basically can it be boosted by RD

[long escarp]

Ooh that’s an interesting question but I don’t know

Does it even make you move faster if you have speed buffs?

[iron locust]

Really tempted to install that codex boon mod just to experiment with things

[iron locust]

The simple question really is what Game State is Zagreus in when using Poseidon's Aid

So we know Rush Delivery affects things like Movement Speed and Sprint, and considering how wide that is, which includes Zagreus Sword, it boils down to Game States

I don't know if Sprint is a unique and separate State to just really fast but temporary speed buffs, but we know that it affects RD

But the unique thing about Poseidon's Aid is that it really isn't either Dashing (Which isn't counted for in RD), Sprinting, or just Fast Movement

It states in the Description there that Zagreus is Surging. Noticeably different since Zag uses a unique animation for it.

If movement speed doesn't affect him, then we can lump Surging same with Dashing. Movement States that aren't factored by movement speed% and therefore doesn't provide bonuses with RD

[proven osprey]

Wall of text time poggies

Oh and the first hit of Poseidon's call gets the RD buff

[craggy root]

whats the most suprising build?

(also is lucifer water gun viable)

[long escarp]

Viable for what?

[craggy root]

idk

for playing/high heat

i guess

(as a not super good player)

[rugged geyser]

wdym surprising

[rugged geyser]

its fine

[craggy root]

unexpected

i guess

[rugged geyser]

really needs sea storm though

[turbid needle]

ppl using demeter and it working out

dio fists were a lot better than I expected

[proven osprey]

Thunder flourish on Chiron

It is surprising because of the lightning internal cooldown but the aoe and Zeus scaling makes it better than it looks and viable for high heat

[turbid needle]

I might try this

top it off with dem atk and KF

[proven osprey]

Cold Fusion 👀

[valid prism]

The free heroes duo 👀

[quartz fractal]

The cool down for Zeus is only the projectile that’s emitted right

[queen thorn]

I'm a pc player and i dont own a controller so i play on keyboard and mouse so the movement and no auto aim is rough sooo any tips from the geniuses here?

[valid prism]

Ask @fervent elbow or @opal lodge

[opal lodge]

ive been summoned

hmm

use aim at cursor off for rail and fists

its effective autoaim

others is a struggle but the answer is kind of "just aim lol"

[queen thorn]

true

[queen thorn]

ohh thanks

[rugged geyser]

im thinking of doing a dash only run, ill do gilgamesh + posideon dash and just get posideon boons that compliment it

for duo ill get sea storm

anything im missing?

[lucid oar]

Pressure points and hunters mark

Lightning reflexes, jolted, razor shoals

Ruthless reflex

You want either dashes or hyper sprint + rush delivery from hermes

And breaking wave for styx

[valid prism]

Be careful about sea storm, tidal dash isn't part of the required boons to get it so you will need to collect an additional blue boon

[polar python]

Was thinking of practicing for 16 heat using Poseidon sword and Crush shot with Zeus special. Any thoughts on other extras to look for (other than exit wounds and flurry cast, which are obviously going in).

[lucid oar]

Mirage shot and smoldering air?

And poms of course

[polar python]

Athena would be my default dash option, but I'm open to suggestions.

Hmm, Mirage Shot is a good call.

[cunning urchin]

Chaos Gates for Shot and Grasp.

[polar python]

Yeah, definitely looking for more casts

[cunning urchin]

Lady Demeter for Snow Burst over Mirage Shot, probably.

[polar python]

Hmm, that's one I hadn't considered, but it is a very in your face build.

[lucid oar]

Yep

Actually, it's debatable on Poseidon aspect

But it is one boon, not 3

[cunning urchin]

I wrote a general Cast build guide: #h1-builds-and-combat message

[long escarp]

Why crush shot and why Zeus special?

[lucid oar]

Fun and jolted probs

[long escarp]

Ok jolted can’t be that level of good

Where you literally prioritize Zeus on most weapons just for Jolted

[lucid oar]

Yup

[bronze marten]

Doesn’t feel necessary

[long escarp]

Like deciding “I specifically want Zeus special” just for jolted feels a bit unnecessary

[bronze marten]

tho electric shot is not bad lol

[lucid oar]

Well, on Poseidon sword, basically no damage will come from the special, so adding a damaging curse is pretty good

[long escarp]

Also, crush shot on Poseidon feels kinda bad in my experience. The range is just so bad

[long escarp]

Yeah but not good enough to prioritize it over everything else

[lucid oar]

Oh no I didn't mean it in that way

[long escarp]

But that’s what they said they’re doing

[raw blade]

jolted is like

free 130+ damage

[lucid oar]

Yeah I'd probably just take deadly flourish or something for mirage

[cunning urchin]

Crush Shot range is pretty good.

[raw blade]

crush shot is pog

with the extra range thing

its the best cast

[long escarp]

Not compared to Phalanx Shot

Which does almost as much damage

[cunning urchin]

I honestly don't care what Special I get on Poseidon.

[raw blade]

nsh crushg is more

[long escarp]

And has a good duo

[raw blade]

def

okay the duo is good

[lucid oar]

I think they have the same scaling, but phalanx does more damage at high rarities than crush shot

[long escarp]

Crush Shot is definitely worse than Phalanx on Poseidon Sword

In like every way

[raw blade]

i just saw a haelian video this morning and the heroic phalanx shot did less damage than an epic crush

[raw blade]

._.

it has

more damage

than both of those

[long escarp]

Barely?

[lucid oar]

Was the level the same?

[long escarp]

And the range is huge

[raw blade]

it was a replace thing

so yeah the level was the same

[long escarp]

And the duo also exists

There’s just no world where Crush Shot is better than Phalanx in any way

[lucid oar]

On Poseidon anyway

[long escarp]

Yeah

[cunning urchin]

Crush Shot has better base damage, so it has better pom scaling.

[long escarp]

Crush Shot is better on Hera

[lucid oar]

Phalanx has 119 at epic right? That's more than crush

[raw blade]

nvm it was floord flare

not phalanx

im trippin

[lucid oar]

Crush is 110

[long escarp]

Sure, but the range is a huge issue. Where Phalanx literally has the best range out of every cast

[cunning urchin]

Range isn't a huge issue, though.

[polar python]

Crush shot is fun with Poseidon aspect; bang, bang, bang, bonk

[raw blade]

if ur playing posiedon won’t you stay close by

to dislodge

[long escarp]

No, you’re gonna 1-shot most enemies

[proper furnace]

for me phalanx is annoying bc of the same range, most of the times it just flies out to nowhere

[lucid oar]

I still like true shot

[raw blade]

crush shot is splash damage as well i think

[cunning urchin]

You're not really disloding, you're just killing them with your Casts, but you'll want to be close to pick them up asap anyway.

[lucid oar]

I know it's not good

[long escarp]

Also, Crush Shot is slow

Like really slow

[raw blade]

the what

i remember it being fast af

i havent used it in a while but i dont ever remember it being slow

[polar python]

I did say Flurry Cast too

[long escarp]

Getting so close to an enemy and then doing that animation is really hard at FO2

[raw blade]

hmm

[cunning urchin]

The casting animation is the same.

[long escarp]

It’s slow enough to feel bad

[proper furnace]

the convo was for 16 heat no?

[cunning urchin]

It's fast enough to stunlock enemies.

[long escarp]

Right. But with Phalanx you have range

[raw blade]

the range strikes again

[long escarp]

So it’s not an issue that Phalanx is slow

[raw blade]

but the splash damage

on crush

[long escarp]

Phalanx has AOE as well though

[raw blade]

there is splash right?

it does??

[long escarp]

Yes

[raw blade]

i thought it didnt

[long escarp]

No it definitely does

[polar python]

I might try Phallanx Poseidon then

[long escarp]

It’s kinda big actually

[lucid oar]

Phalanx Poseidon is very strong

[long escarp]

It’s better for damage, range, and duos

[polar python]

Fair enough 👍

[cunning urchin]

It's not better for damage.

[long escarp]

Lightning Phalanx is good but not incredible, so if you don’t get it it’s not a big deal

[cunning urchin]

Crush Shot has better pom scaling. Rarity barely matters.

[long escarp]

rmacinty said it was

Ah ok

Still, the difference isn’t huge

[polar python]

Yeah, last time I did a similar thing I had Crush Shot up to +8 or so.

[raw blade]

okay phalanx has more damage than crush

i just checked

[lucid oar]

The flares have identical scaling

[raw blade]

but weirdly crush has more damage than phalanx on beo

[lucid oar]

I think the casts do too

[polar python]

So if Phallanx scales badly it might make a difference

[lucid oar]

It doesn't tho

[long escarp]

It definitely doesn’t scale badly

[lucid oar]

It has the second highest scaling out of the casts I believe

[long escarp]

It still scales very well

[lucid oar]

After trippy

[polar python]

Nice

[raw blade]

crush flare > phalanx flare but phalanx shot > crush shot in terms of damage

this is so trippy

[long escarp]

Trippy Flate scaling

[polar python]

I've not used Phallanx much tbh, but maybe I should

[lucid oar]

Phalanx flare has literally the same radius as zag flare

And no weak

[raw blade]

crush flare is the best one imo

good damage and doest stay there like trippy

[lucid oar]

Trippy is broken beyond belief

[long escarp]

Passion Flare gang

[polar python]

Or rather I've not concentrated on upgrading it much. I use it for deflection mostly.

[raw blade]

trippy with the zeus duo

🗻

[lucid oar]

Trippy with mirage shot and a heck of a lot of poms

[raw blade]

[lucid oar]

Why need lightning bolts when enemies die in one hit anyway

[cunning urchin]

Crush Shot base damage is 90. Phalanx Shot base damage is 85. Crush Shot scales better with poms because the base damage is higher. Phalanx Shot has a greater rarity multiplier, but it's competing with better poms.

Better Duo Boons is debatable. Crush Shot unlocks Heart Rend, Sweet Nectar, and Smoldering Air. Those are all amazing.

[polar python]

Trippy shot was how I got my 38% butterfly run.

[raw blade]

but for cast specified builds none of them contribute to anything

the duos i mean

[long escarp]

Heart Rend does so little with Poseidon sword

[cunning urchin]

Sweet Nectar doubles your Cast poms, Smoldering Air is always amazing in any build.

[long escarp]

Yes, sure. But the range

[polar python]

I'd go Athena special just to be able to face tank

So Smouldering would make it great.

[cunning urchin]

Heart Rend with Pressure Points and Hunter's Mark is a lot of damage.

Divine Flourish is fine, but you'd probably want Divine Dash over that anyway if you're starting Phalanx Shot.

I'd just grab anything that isn't Tempest Flourish, probably, that opens up decent Duo Boons.

[long escarp]

The perfect build would have Heartbreak Flourish, Zeus’s Aid, Smoldering Air, and Lightning Phalanx

And probably Divine Dash

[cunning urchin]

No.

[raw blade]

lmao No.

lolol

straight up rejected

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Crush Shot, Passion Dash, Aphrodite's Aid, Dying Lament, Wave of Despair, Different League, Life Affirmation, Empty Inside, Sweet Surrender, Broken Resolve, Blown Kiss, Unhealthy Fixation.

That's a perfect build.

[raw blade]

this is iliterally

all of the

aphro boons

[long escarp]

[raw blade]

[bronze marten]

She literally made me apologize to the aphro voice actor for purging a life affirmation once lol

[raw blade]

i purged

unhelathy fixation

to get that achievement

[lunar pulsar]

Is point blank or chain shot better on Rama?

First hammer was twin shot

[raw blade]

point

twin shot reminds me

it sucks on chiron

[bronze marten]

point, but chain shot is fun w rama lol

[raw blade]

i never tried

[bronze marten]

its worth a shot, it's an off meta pick but triple shot chain shot with shared suffering clears rooms mad fast

[long escarp]

Point Blank is better for twin shot Rama for sure

[bronze marten]

it does suffer v bosses compared to twin shot (tho it melts lernie)

but i save my "meta" runs for when im feeling spicy and wanna do 32

rama chain shot with enough targets for it to bounce to gets super strong tho

if your goal is the best rama, probably twin shot tho

because that c

can shred bosses

[lunar pulsar]

I already took point blank

[long escarp]

I’m not good enough with triple shot. I mean I’ll always take it if I can’t get twin, but all my wins are with twin

[long escarp]

Correct choice

[lunar pulsar]

Although chain isn't too bad at killing phase 1 hades

[long escarp]

Chain is good

But Point Blank is great

Especially with Twin, since the extra damage counts for like 60% of your entire range

Perfect Shot is probably a bit better, but they’re both good second hammers

[bronze marten]

Eh, I like my weird off meta stuff, keeps it fresh

Ice wine and Gilgamesh

Is it good? Not really

But I had fun lol

Was simping for the damn hermes legendary I still haven’t gotten

[long escarp]

Oh yeah go for whatever hammers and boons you want if you’re going for fun

To be 100% clear, when I say something is best, or good, or bad, I only mean that in a context where you are trying to optimize your build

[raw blade]

i kinda of don't like how twin shot feels

i know its the same speed but it feels slower

[long escarp]

Really? 2x damage feels pretty good to me

[long escarp]

Yeah I know what you mean. But melting enemies and bosses never gets old

[raw blade]

actually its not the same speed

it is slwoer

because it takes the same time to charge a smaller shot

[long escarp]

Well power shots take the same amount of time

[raw blade]

same amount yes but the range is

smol

not a lot

[long escarp]

Ok but double damage

[raw blade]

this is true

[bronze marten]

It has slightly reduced range and the time to charge power shot is the same

So it feels slower

But it’s your brain playing tricks on you

[long escarp]

Twin Shot Rama + Hearbreak Strike is like 800 damage per shot in chamber 3. You don’t even need any other boons

[bronze marten]

I kinda want to try chain shot triple shot then I could prob handle js3 lol

[raw blade]

is this even possible

[long escarp]

I think so

Pretty sure

[raw blade]

sounds op

[proper furnace]

triple and chain is possible

is fun

[flat summit]

For aspect of beo which is the best cast

Is Aphrodite actually better than Trippy shot bc you get the cast stones back?

[solar dawn]

It's better on infernal soul ye

[lone jetty]

Infernal you want Aphro or Poseidon because Poseidon is halfway to Mirage Shot. Stygian you can do Trippy but you’ll really want Chaos or Prometheus Stones for more casts

[sterile fiber]

Aphrodite has highest damage, Poseidon trades damage for area, and easier to get Mirage Shot

[lone jetty]

Mirage shot is bugged on Beo to give double damage, is why we’re mentioning it a lot

[bronze marten]

mirage shot means four digit rushes

[lucid oar]

Mirage shot trippy flare means five digit rushes lmao

[long escarp]

Have you ever one-shotted Hades phase 3 with EM4? I think that would require 17,000 damage

[lucid oar]

I haven't personally

[long escarp]

I should try that tbh

Where can I see the exact numbers (the real ones, not the inaccurate in-game ones) for Trippy Flare scaling so I can see how many poms I’d need to make that possible?

[sterile fiber]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/867888481324761108/887050775937822750/2021091315013800-C7D8C4153CC9802713604F54C53304E02.jpg

[bronze marten]

lol i wouldnt

[sterile fiber]

icyflare.jpg

[long escarp]

But chill

[lucid oar]

( (Displayed damage) - 50/60/70/80 (c/r/e/h) )*2

[long escarp]

I don’t understand

[lucid oar]

So if the displayed value for common level 2 is 160

You'd do (160-50)*2

And get 220

[long escarp]

Ah

Ok

Where can I find the rarity and Pom scaling spreadsheet again?

[lucid oar]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1Py-bKw-IYzFqmsWvN1beBF4YEqU_vkVvB9F4OcVOdg8/htmlview

[long escarp]

Thank you

[long escarp]

Wait, so is the damage better than it says even when the boon is lvl 1? I thought it was only broken past lvl 1

[lucid oar]

It is

Oh yeah

Trippy flare rarity/pom scaling was nerfed

It's now the same as trippy shot

So 100/120/140/160

[long escarp]

Ah ok

[proper furnace]

if i dash before throwing a cast like ares/demeter would the rush delivery buff apply during all the time of the cast or only while hyper sprint duration is up?

[turbid needle]

does persephones keepsake stack with poseidon and aphrodite duo?

[strange lark]

No

[strange lark]

During the time hyper sprint is up

[proper furnace]

ty, time to spam dash then

[sterile fiber]

Dear Uncle Zeus:
Thunder Flare is a scam.
Sincerely,
Your sad nephew

[proper furnace]

how bad it was?

[sterile fiber]

It's like. There's 1 lightning bolt

[glad kelp]

can anyone recommend a non flurry jab build for the achilles spear?

[bronze marten]

Start Artemis attack, go into blade rifts or meme beam whichever pops first

[rugged geyser]

Yeah just do a cast build

I also really like blizzard shot

Which is posideon x Demeter cast duo

[iron locust]

I think I know why Ares' Cast sucks
And why Hunting Blades makes them, to some, OP

The answer is simple really

The blades have 0 tracking whatsoever

At least base cast had some level of correction and tracking, but Ares blades just drift off in the direction you point them

The larger size and sucking effect doesn't really do much if it doesn't connect

I think they need to buff it so that it AT LEAST has base level tracking. Not as good as Hunting Blades, but just, something for it

Because enemies move fast and bosses move faster. It's not a very good cast for damage.

Hell, even base Demeter cast has SOME tracking

[cunning urchin]

I wouldn't expect any kind of balance update at this point.

[vivid crow]

Yeah i noticed alotta discussion for dlc and patches lately but I'm guessing its mainly from console players,

There is engulfing vortex that adds some tracking but thats another boon

Luckily its a prerequisite for the legendary too

[surreal lava]

Hey

Does maim dmg get the special boon modifiers?

[cunning urchin]

Nope.

[surreal lava]

What?!?

That makes me rlly sad

Also like

Why does the dmg fluctuate?

Nvm

[sleek quarry]

Any builds for guan yu guys?

im struggling with the spear

[cunning urchin]

I wrote a short guide for Guan Yu here. #h1-discussion message

[sleek quarry]

btw

any guides for butterfly?

[cunning urchin]

Not really. Guan Yu is pretty good for that, though, especially if you get Charged Skewer.

[sleek quarry]

what happened to the rocket build before?

[cunning urchin]

What are you talking about?

[sleek quarry]

nvm

[long escarp]

I’m pretty sure it just makes them pull enemies in, it doesn’t add tracking

[turbid needle]

at least blades have more T2 boons than beam 🥴

[vivid crow]

Ik i just meant that you dont need to worry about aiming as much since it pulls things in

[long escarp]

I highly doubt anything like this will be changed at this point. Although, imo, a lot of things could use changes that are more important than buffing base Slicing Shot. Here are some of my ideas:

• Increase the damage from Frost Strike and Frost Flourish. Sure they’re not terrible, but there’s no reason they have to be so much worse than Aphrodite when weak is arguably a stronger status effect. It would be much more interesting if there were more options for DPS other than just Aphrodite.
• Increase the base special damage for Zag shield special by +15 as well. There’s no reason the special needs to be so terrible and unviable. It makes the weapon extremely unfun, at least for me, since the special is so weak that it’s basically unusable.
• Replace parting shot with a decent boon. It’s so obnoxious because sure, parting shot has its uses, but I literally get it offered to me 9 out of 10 runs and it literally does nothing for my build at all. I’m not joking about 9 out of 10 either, if you check all of my screenshots in #h1-victory-boasting , I will always have the prereqs and occasionally even be stuck with the boon (usually I sell it to UC)
• Give a lot of the Beowulf flares more effects that give them and upside over Passion Flare. Things like Frost Flare, Phalanx Flare, Thunder Flare, Hunter’s Flare. They just have basically no upside over Passion Flare and so they’re actually just never worth taking. Which is kinda boring imo.
• Buff mistral dash. Just a little bit. There’s no reason it has to be the definitive worst dash, while every other dash has its uses.
• I wish the companions other than Meg had use-cases, other than Shady for memes like max-gold runs. I don’t see a reason why there has to be such a definitive best companion. It would be much more interesting if the other companions were at least a little viable.
• I wish the punishing effect from Hades spear applied to spin attacks. The aspect would still be bad, but it would at least be more fun.

• I wish I could buy visual upgrades for the courtyard because it just looks so barren and it would be sick to add some deco
• Get rid of some of the terrible sword hammers and replace them with decent ones. Same for Spear. Those weapons are already much weaker, they don’t need to also have terrible hammers. Both weapons only have a single good hammer, which is just really uninteresting and stupid.

I’m sure I have more but those are the ones that I could think of off the top of my head

[hoary slate]

Tbh if Parting shot just had the requirement of any castboon (that could backstab) that'd be neat.

Also Hades Aspect isn't bad.

[long escarp]

Yeah I was thinking that

[lunar pulsar]

I don't think making hades spear give damage to spin attacks would really solve the problem

[cunning urchin]

Parting Shot should be +50% backstab damage and apply to all attacks, not just Casts.

Maybe more.

[long escarp]

No it wouldn’t, but it would at least let me play a spin attack build which would make the aspect at least fun in one way. Because right now there are literally zero fun or good builds with it

[long escarp]

Yeah that could work as a change, that way I can get something out of it

[proven osprey]

Hades spins should benefit from its own buff

The only way to buff spins atm is Achilles, and it's quite powerful

With massive spin

Even if it's nowhere near flurry jab's power level, it's pretty good

[opaque hare]

when do you guys pick stygian soul over infernal?

im guessing is better for distant builds but idk

[hoary slate]

Lodging Casts -> Infernal, not-lodging Casts rather Stygian, No Cast usage -> Stygian (cuz one less Boon from Hermes)

[opaque hare]

very helpful, thx

[iron locust]

I can agree with most of these things, but I kinda like Mistral Dash

Though I guess that yeah it could use a little more

[long escarp]

Isn’t it… like really bad though? If you like it, wouldn’t it be great to make it actually worth picking?

[iron locust]

I use it for PS, plus having it extend forward a bit from Zag helps me deal with the damn greatshields

[long escarp]

Taking boons for PS is never a good idea. If your build doesn’t have inherent built-in PS (like a low tolerance build for example), then you should just be using FF imo

[rugged geyser]

spear has more than one good hammer

yes flurry jab is clear best

triple and sniper jab are good

but yeah sword is bad with hammers

[vivid crow]

Probably a bad take but i find hades aspect helpful for boonless runs

[rugged geyser]

double edge is way too strong and it has lots of weak ones

[cunning urchin]

The main issue with spear hammers is that Flurry Jab is so much better than any other hammer that you want to avoid all the spin hammers just to get a chance at Flurry Jab later.

Even though the spin hammers are actually not bad.

And it has anti-synergy with Serrated Point, which is the second best hammer.

Serrated Point + Flurry Jab is worse than either of them individually.

[rugged geyser]

how is it anti synergy?

[long escarp]

Does it? Other than Serrated Point being pretty decent with a pretty big downside

[rugged geyser]

^

[cunning urchin]

I think both of those are really weak tbh.

[long escarp]

Extending jab sucks

And triple jab does almost nothing imo

I mean extending jab doesn’t do nothing, but the spear already has so much range

It’s like giving Zag rail more ammo. It’s just totally unnecessary

[cunning urchin]

The DPS is worse than Flurry Jab by itself, and you can't do a single Dash-Attack anymore without getting a Flurry Jab immediately after.

[long escarp]

You’re really calling triple jab “really good”? I’m actually so confused by that because it probably does less than your average bouldy boon. Like seriously that hammer is so worthless

[rugged geyser]

i feel it helps in big groups

[long escarp]

Not really

Especially not if you already have Zeus attack flurry jab

[rugged geyser]

oh yeah spear uses zeus

i use spear for cast builds

i dont enjoy doing regular spear builds

[cunning urchin]

It kinda doesn't really do much for big groups because you just do Cast > Dash-Strike x2 anyway for AOE damage.

[long escarp]

Yeah exactly

[cunning urchin]

Special instead of Cast if you have Exploding Launcher.

[long escarp]

But you probably won’t because you’re probably using Achilles

[cunning urchin]

Special without Exploding Launcher is okay for newer players because you can throw it from really far away and just cheese enemies like that.

But the main problem at higher level is just it does so little damage for how long it takes to throw and recover.

[long escarp]

Sure, but that’s not an excuse for it to not be improved. If I didn’t mention the special for Zag spear and Hades spear in my list of things (which I think didn’t), then yeah I think the special should do more damage and/or be faster

[cunning urchin]

I mean there's no "excuse" needed because there are different design goals.

[long escarp]

Sure I guess

But like for rail, the special is good when you’re starting out and it’s good when you’re experienced

[cunning urchin]

Shield Special is so weak, the only aspect I really use it on is Zeus.

[long escarp]

Yeah that’s an even bigger issue

I did definitely mention that one

[long escarp]

I mean, you do use it on Chaos shield right? It can be strong if you can get 6x damage on multiple enemies with a shotgun

[cunning urchin]

I meant what I said.

[long escarp]

Do you think if the base damage was 20, and it got buffed by zag shield’s attack damage buff (meaning it was doing 35 on Zag shield), would it be worth it then?

At least with some hammers?

[cunning urchin]

Maybe.

35 base damage sounds so bad when Hestia gets 150 lol.

[long escarp]

Yeah it’s still bad

[granite lava]

hey thanks for the suggestions, I'm gonna see what I can do

[long escarp]

I play mainly on switch but I do have it on my PC. Tbh if you make some of this stuff I’ll definitely try out your mod. Ping me!

[granite lava]

have you looked at the existing features of Pony QOL? because there are a lot

[long escarp]

No, again I don’t really play on PC

But I’ll check it out sometime

[granite lava]

👍

[granite lava]

@long escarp how would you want mistral dash to be buffed?

[long escarp]

I’m not entirely sure the best way to do it tbh

You should ask Nyaa maybe

[granite lava]

@cunning urchin hope you don't mind the ping

[long escarp]

If she did that would be ironic because she loves pinging top players even if it’s just for a joke

[opaque hare]

Charged Skewer is the sheet with guan yu

[long escarp]

Wym “the sheet” oh

[worn solar]

more like the only thing making that aspect somewhat bearable

[cunning urchin]

We've discussed Mistral Dash doing more hits before to at least stack Chill faster.

Just straight up more damage could work, of course.

[granite lava]

longer range? bigger aoe?

[worn solar]

make it shoot mist in every direction

[cunning urchin]

It only going forward makes it an offensive tool, but the damage is low, and the effect is defensive. And 1-2 stacks of Chill barely do anything on normal enemies unless you happen to have Killing Freeze.

[granite lava]

[boreal prism]

What if it was just a tiny version of her call? Would that make it too much like ares dash

[cunning urchin]

I think the effect shooting forward should definitely remain because it's unique in that.

[long escarp]

Very true

[boreal prism]

It's cool to have a projectile dash yeah

[cunning urchin]

Other more general issues she has is that she just doesn't scale with poms.

[long escarp]

Thanks Nyaa, those are all better ideas than I would have come up with

[cunning urchin]

Outside of Snow Burst, her pom scaling is either bad or the boon just straight-up can't be upgraded with poms.

Actually, Snow Burst, Glacial Glare, and I guess Crystal Beam poms are okay.

You have to get high rarity boons from her or you're just stuck with the damage you with no way to really improve it with poms.

Lord Zeus is somewhat similar in design to her in that he scales best with his own boons, but he also has a lot of good pom targets.

[granite lava]

what do you think of this alternative ?
https://gfycat.com/immaculatesameladybug

the ice patch left on the ground after dashing lasts 4 times as long, which lets it hit enemies 4 times

[cunning urchin]

I think first and foremost that any other video sharing site is better than streamable.

[granite lava]

well that's fair, feel free to let me know a better one

[cunning urchin]

Something like gfycat works well.

4 seems like too much tbh. I think the idea of the Mist actually remaining similar to Drunken Dash is interesting.

[granite lava]

here you go, used gfycat

[cunning urchin]

Makes a bit more sense than the Mist just instantly clearing after 1 hit.

[granite lava]

so 3 hits then?

[cunning urchin]

3 hits I think would be good.

[granite lava]

alright so that's done

about weapon and special, I raised the base value to be equal to aphrodite's
https://imgur.com/KXsieke

so that's 40% > 50% and 60% > 80%

[cunning urchin]

Terrible.

Insulting.

[long escarp]

Ahaha

[granite lava]

is this not what you wanted?

[long escarp]

Yeah I like it

[granite lava]

- Increase the damage from Frost Strike and Frost Flourish. Sure they’re not terrible,
but there’s no reason they have to be so much worse than Aphrodite when weak is arguably a stronger status effect.

[long escarp]

No I totally like it

[granite lava]

then what's wrong??

[cunning urchin]

Lady Aphrodite is unparalleled.

[long escarp]

Nyaa is mad because Aphrodite should always be best I think

[granite lava]

ah

[long escarp]

Stay mad

[granite lava]

[long escarp]

It’s Demeter’s time to shine

[granite lava]

ok so something else was the boons not being pom-able or scaling terribly

[cunning urchin]

I think her Attack damage is fine at 40%, Special should probably be 70%. And then her t2 boons should be balanced to be pommable and not rely so much on rarity.

Dash poms are probably fine if it hits 3 times.

Call... would probably be fine if her t2 boons scaled better.

Her boons are not bad, she's just not best at anything, so no good meta build really starts with her or wants any of her core boons. So it's easy to overbuff her because Chill is actually really good.

[granite lava]

ok so of all her boons only 5 can't be pommed :

• Nourished Soul
• Killing Freeze
• Artic Blast
• Ravenous Will
• Winter Harvest (legendary)

visual
https://imgur.com/uKurOio

[cunning urchin]

Arctic Blast needs poms tbh. Might make Crystal Clarity builds more broken, but that's whatever because that requires so much to come together anyway.

Killing Freeze poms would be really good, too.

[long escarp]

Isn’t Killing Freeze crazy good already?

But I guess so is jolted and that not only can be pommed but it scales super well with them

[cunning urchin]

It's not crazy good, no. It's good in particular for bosses.

[long escarp]

Ah ok

[cunning urchin]

The slow effect and consistent DOT are really good, but the DPS seems better than it is because Lady Demeter builds usually lack damage without it.

If the pom scaling is sensible and only buffs damage, it should be fine.

Would give you a reason to want to start a run with the Frostbitten Horn that's not "meme beam".

[long escarp]

Exactly, that’s what I want. Or at least for me to not always take coins over Demeter unless I’m desperate for a boon to sell

[cunning urchin]

Lol I take her boons over obols unless I have AP2 and LC4.

Don't want to be forced into Nourished Soul.

[granite lava]

my mod removes that issue

[cunning urchin]

That's another thing that imo would have near zero effect on casual play but really help her balance in high heat: make Nourished Soul purgeable.

[granite lava]

[turbid needle]

dem buff mod? nice

[cunning urchin]

Maybe you can share your own ideas on how to buff her without going overboard.

[turbid needle]

I'd give beams either a bigger hitbox or better tracking by default

I think you p much said everything already

why not just make her call do more dmg she needs it

base chill could slow down more

[cunning urchin]

Yeah more damage on her Call would be fine.

I don't think her Call is bad, but it's also not amazing. I wouldn't take her keepsake just to get her Call.

[long escarp]

Chill probably slows enough, the issue is that the boons that apply chill are really weak

[turbid needle]

base chill is an insanley underwhelming status curse imo

[cunning urchin]

Issue is that Chill on something like Guan Yu Special only applies 1 stack.

[long escarp]

That could be just because you have to apply 10 for it to do it’s full effect

[cunning urchin]

But it's really good on something like Chiron.

[turbid needle]

the 10 is an issue yea

[long escarp]

If only the damage were higher for Frost Flourish

[turbid needle]

unlike weak which gives you all benefits in one shot

[cunning urchin]

Which imo is fine because you can use Attack/Special when the attack rate is high and otherwise you could use her Dash to apply multiple stacks fast if it's 3 hits.

The 3 hits should proc faster than in that clip, though.

[turbid needle]

make chill also apply 5% weak

bc the enemies get cold hands

[cunning urchin]

Something that's always been talked about is making Crystal Beam apply Chill by default.

Either that or better tracking by default.

[turbid needle]

or make it deal more dmg idk it needs somethin

[cunning urchin]

Also, damage buff to Cold Embrace would be great.

[turbid needle]

I used to think its fine but honestly its the worst cast to me now

[cunning urchin]

Well. It would deal more damage if it actually hit anything.

It's worse than base Cast imo.

[turbid needle]

which doesnt look good on demeter if she already has the worst dash too

[cunning urchin]

Icy Flare is also a joke.

[turbid needle]

I'd personally nuke her boon pool so the T2 are easier to get but some ppl like nourished soul and rare crop og

[long escarp]

Yeah most of the flares need a rework

[cunning urchin]

Not that Beowulf needs buffs, but when Snow Burst is always a better pick than her actual Cast on a Cast aspect, something is off.

[turbid needle]

or give killing freeze status curse priority if it doesnt already has that