he gets some boons from the gods so he can do everything you can do
#h1-builds-and-combat
strange lark
so he can apply hangover, doom, weak, and chill
and he can crit you and hit you with lightning
he can also knock you back with poseidon
jovial fulcrum
I meant weak in particular.
But yeah.
It's been a little while since I last played so I'm a bit fuzzy
drowsy flint
Does Zeus Standard works with Zags Rail?
lime jolt
ah ok
proven osprey
Hestia is one of the absolute boss killers. It struggle with crowded rooms/bad BPs such as savior
drowsy flint
Agree
valid prism
And DC2
lucid oar
Hestia is one of the absolute boss killers. It struggle with crowded rooms/bad B...
Hestia needs a lot to be good at bosses. Compared to Beowulf or Eris, it's not good at bosses.
turbid needle
when your aspect isnt as good as the aspect thats the best at bosses :(
proven osprey
Hestia needs a boon on the attack and it kills any boss very easily
turbid needle
its pretty chill boss time yeah
lucid oar
Not quickly
proven osprey
It literally needs either schackle or whatever strike that is not tempest
No
Hestia is really quick
in any heat or high heat alike
lucid oar
How quick is "really quick"? Because I struggle to kill Hades in under 50s with Hestia, whereas I am consistently able to get under 40s with Eris/Beowulf/Chiron/Rama etc
And even then it takes lucky crits
proven osprey
You're literally naming the best bossing aspects lmao
proven osprey
I have no idea how you can say that an aspects that carries 150 base damage on the attack is bad at bossing
especially with boiling blood, special while reloading
Just add tidal dash and you shred it idk
not to mention the extreme safety of the aspect
lucid oar
Arthur has 200 base damage on the third swing, it's not exactly a good boss killer. Base damage isn't generally a great measure
proven osprey
If we don't consider any heat it's top 2 aspect at bossing behind beo
yeah you mentioned it
THIRD swing
Hestia is a gatling compared to Arthur
lucid oar
If we don't consider any heat it's top 2 aspect at bossing behind beo
Isn't considering any heat the whole point?
proven osprey
No?
And even if it was, any weapon needs a lot to shred bosses. And you actually get a lot in any heat
Because you're not gonna shred bosses as Eris without rocket bomb
lucid oar
I would say that Hestia requires more than other aspects
Eg. Nemesis only really needs one specific hammer and the usual cores
proven osprey
and it's "crap" without the hammer yeah (woops)
Hestia does not have access to such power with a hammer for sure
lucid oar
I'll redo my statement. Hestia needs something like hazard bomb to do well against bosses, similar to how nemesis needs double edge/Beowulf needs mirage.
turbid needle
hestia only needs attack% and then its just execution 🤔
proven osprey
I get his point Toffel, but the thing is we're talking about absurd clear times
so we have to define what is good at bossing
turbid needle
yeah but even then its like
super fast for just that
I guess whatever speedrun pb
lucid oar
"Something like hazard bomb" could be another high roll option like epic chaos/jerky/smoldering
But it does need something
olive wharf
double nova is one of the best hammers for the sword right?
strange lark
double edge
lucid oar
Not really, the majority of your damage comes from dash strikes
So double edge is best ^^^
olive wharf
o
I've not encountered double edge yet
only been getting double nova, which seems to be a lot of aoe clear
proven osprey
"Something like hazard bomb" could be another high roll option like epic chaos/j...
Then yes that's true but I think any aspect needs something to be that fast anyway. Maybe besides Beowulf and Rama
lucid oar
Even then, you won't go fast on those with out twin/triple shot or mirage shot
proven osprey
that would not need as much as Hestia
Mirage is nice for sure
But I've played a lot of beo at high heat and even sometimes you just don't need it
lucid oar
Mirage is +100% multiplicative damage on beowulf, it is a must get on all speedruns
proven osprey
Yeah since the bug was discovered
but it's a super highroll build that dies without bonus cast from chaos
proven osprey
Oh I thought you were mentioning the fact that mirage shot was bugged
you don't get 30% but 100% with dio's cast
proven osprey
yeah but then the 100% is only valid for trippy, not passion
lucid oar
No it's bugged for all flares
proven osprey
really
lucid oar
I used to think it was just trippy flare until hyper delivery 3 commentary
So I asked around
lucid oar
It's still the most high-roll build, but it was nerfed to match Hera trippy flare, so I think passion flare slotted in between flood flare and trippy flare in terms of "highroll-ness"
reef palm
Give me a fun build to try, at this point I'm just grinding for Darkness and diamonds
reef palm
Which aspect
urban vapor
not lucifer
reef palm
Eris I can unlock right now I guess
Maybe just stick to Hestia until I upgrade Eris more
Cluster Bomb obtained, but now I need a boon for it
strange lark
get artemis special
reef palm
Aye aye
I picked a chaos boon that hurts me when I attack for more special damage, and this may have been a mistake
Especially when the next encounter is the big gorgon head
prisma patio
oof
reef palm
Rocket achieved
strange lark
Rocket achieved
pog
reef palm
Well that was a strong run
Woulda been stronger if I hadn't sold my weak effect on attack that I had at the start, but you live and you learn.
lucid oar
Try putting Zeus on the attack. At common rarity, Aphrodite is +50% but Zeus is +100%. This is only true for the rail though
reef palm
Try putting Zeus on the attack. At common rarity, Aphrodite is +50% but Zeus is ...
That's what ended up having to happen, but I got the Aphrodite/Artemis duo boon since I had the Aphro cast, but it's so short range that weak on normal attack would have been safer
lime jolt
@proven osprey i think bcs both you and I play more high heat, it feels like bosses just die, bcs with ap2 and other stuff, hestia probably kills them the fastest. In any heat, later bosses do kinda feel bad and slowish
proven osprey
Yeah that's true
sterile fiber
Shield advice for someone who can't stand it?
dry ember
Don't use it?
sterile fiber
I find the regular attack, clunky, and the special throws me off bc I either have to wait for it to come back, or Zeus special moves really slow and can't hit stuff consistently
dem prophecies and loot though
lucid oar
Shield advice for someone who can't stand it?
Charged shot is really good, as it does the full 80 damage even if you don't charge it the full way
So it's less clunky
boreal prism
Don't forget to block
I'm always surprised by how many people forget to block with shield
sterile fiber
Charged shot is really good, as it does the full 80 damage even if you don't cha...
Is that the one where you hold the regular attack button
lucid oar
It's a hammer upgrade that turns your bull rush (what you just mentioned) into a shot.
sterile fiber
Oh ok
jovial fulcrum
Shield advice for someone who can't stand it?
Zag shield and just mash attack lol
the hidden fifth Fist aspect
grand night
Aspect of Hera is pretty highly regarded for the bow, yes? What is a good Cast boon to pair with it?
turbid needle
aphrodite
grand night
Oooh good point! It is already pretty short ranged anyway
When just lobbing it yourself.
iron knot
Shield advice for someone who can't stand it?
throw it, recall, and then run away from it for free beyblade lol
on zeus
strange lark
Nah beowulf is really good
limber flame
Hi how do i know what boon is better with what weapon?
pastel birch
usually I like flat damage boons like Zeus and Ares on fast weapons, and % boosts on heavy hitters
drowsy flint
How to Shield 101: Block, attack, Block again
sterile fiber
yeah I'm too impatient to block which is a problem
just tried beowolf it's pretty cool
iron knot
Beowulf is good but it feels so clunky and slow
opal lodge
its clunky but quite quick
tbh
its one of the faster weapons out there in terms of average clear speed if you know what youre doing with it
scarlet yoke
Fully Loaded Dragon Rush is just good
fading nymph
I dont get why they added you +10% damage though
static karma
You can pretend that doesn’t exist for the most part
fading nymph
But for why does it exist
lime jolt
Idk
I guess they just needed to have a downside for beo
Since most other hidden aspects have them
scarlet yoke
I mean, Excalibur has a strict upside but its downside is that it's Slow
they just needed some "it does THIS to you/your foes" to fill the space
they could just have said something about Dragon Rush like Enkidu does but
fading nymph
Rama or Lucifer don’t have a downside other than being slower to start their attack
And is Beo’s startup not slower?
scarlet yoke
the only ones with straight downsides OUTSIDE the alt moveset are Guan Yu (fair enough) and Beo (kind of unnecessary)
fading nymph
If an enemy is inflicted with hangover from drunken strike and I use dio call which had hangover with better dps, what happens
boreal prism
hangover ticks use the most recent source of hangover
so if you use dio call, the dps goes up dramatically, but then if you punch the enemy with your drunken strike it goes back down again
which means generally you want to avoid having multiple hangover sources?
static karma
Rama or Lucifer don’t have a downside other than being slower to start their att...
Rama’s “downside” is that you need a lot of skill for it to be good
New players don’t get much out of Rama
I disagree that Guan Yu’s downside needed to be that drastic
GY’s draw is the special and good move set not the healing spin imo
I did 32 heat with guan yu the special dash strike combo was really good
If you healing spin too much you’ll just get killed
limber flame
What's an easy build for Achille's spear?
turbid needle
hunting blades is pretty ez
turbid needle
true hunting blades need to aim still 
reef palm
GY’s draw is the special and good move set not the healing spin imo
I like the healing spin well enough since it does quite a lot of damage as well as the small heal, but it really needs daedalus hammers to be super worth using, to make the spin bigger and last longer.
strange lark
nice
jovial fulcrum
Demeter fist btw
jovial fulcrum
EM4 FO2 is so fast 
strange lark
ye fo2 be like that
turbid needle
its pretty difficult
jovial fulcrum
I beat first phase, but man.
Rolling Megagorgons makes first phase so much harder
Second summon was just the Asphodel mid boss
Hehexd
silk hearth
hades summons one mini boss at a time right
strange lark
you can get 3 minibosses if you dont kill the first one
proven osprey
^
silk hearth
ohh
anyway they all have low hp so thats good
dealing with sneaky person would be really hard i imagine
strange lark
ye it can get annoying
turbid needle
if I get 2 at once I usually die
turbid needle
2 sneaky yeah
but killing him before he summons 2 is prob a good strat
no wait
he'd summon 3 then yeah
silk hearth
dont think thats possible
turbid needle
unless doomstone is your first
fading nymph
Anyone else think MM barge is easier than normal barge
turbid needle
it is
reef palm
I'm slowly learning the appeal of Rama. It felt too slow at first but the damage is great and with some work the special makes for a solid faster option.
boreal prism
bow that shoots trucks instead of arrows
jovial fulcrum
Sneaks and Megagorgons are the worst summons for EM4 i think.
Closely followed by the Dire Satyr
The big headbanger can be annoying too i guess, but you can kinda just work around them more or less
sterile fiber
nearly won the other day with Rama + doom effect on special
regular attack? never heard of them
jovial fulcrum
Man, today is not my day.
Got destroyed by EM4 dad then shifted gears to Bow 32 attempts and cant make it past Lernie
I guess I'm just out of practice, haven't played much in the past few weeks
strange lark
rip
fading nymph
rip
reef palm
I'm slowly learning the appeal of Rama. It felt too slow at first but the damage...
I did nearly lose to Hades because of how slow the main attack is though
My own fault for checking every room of Styx though
strange lark
yeah
static karma
That and you wait for enemies to recover after they finish attacking
reef palm
Even with that it was slow at times, and the damage is noticeably lower
static karma
That’s when you charge a dash strike power shot
reef palm
Though a couple boons could help that
jovial fulcrum
That goes for every bow, not just Rama.
But especially on Rama
strange lark
play with explosive shot, the next time you play with normal rama it will feel really fast
jovial fulcrum
lol
strange lark
its a lot more effective if you also use twin shot
reef palm
I did, thankfully
jovial fulcrum
Yeah, rama really really likes hammers
reef palm
And +4 special shots
fading nymph
play with explosive shot, the next time you play with normal rama it will feel r...
no then you switch to zag aspect
strange lark
no
fading nymph
the fastest draw in the west
strange lark
the fastest bow in the game is zag rail with flurry fire and swift strike
jovial fulcrum
I thought zag bow had crit chance not attack speed
reef palm
Now I just gotta figure out how I'll ever get Arthur to the surface
fading nymph
I thought zag bow had crit chance not attack speed
well I was just saying a non rama bow
that just came to mind
jovial fulcrum
Now I just gotta figure out how I'll ever get Arthur to the surface
Play on 0 heat and just glomp stuff with your unga bunga bat
jovial fulcrum
ha, only if you have actually upper body strength
strange lark
only if you actually have an upper body
jovial fulcrum
me with noodle arms and a slight gut
strange lark
nice
uncut lintel
You use your back and shoulders to draw a bow, not your arms
strange lark
i use my toes
boreal prism
i wonder if you could calculate the poundage of rama
reef palm
~~only if you actually have an upper body~~
Dusa moment
jovial fulcrum
You use your back and shoulders to draw a bow, not your arms
That still requires upper body strength.
But yeah, I shoulda been more specific
static karma
i wonder if you could calculate the poundage of rama
Do we even know how much Zagreus weighs
uncut lintel
Or his power to weight ratio relative to being a friggin God
reef palm
Now I just gotta figure out how I'll ever get Arthur to the surface
I tried to do it with all the mirror effects I haven't reached the surface with yet, but I lost to the Heroes because of Stubborn Defiance when Theseus had like 3 hits left to him
If only one more arrow from Artemis call had crit
hoary slate
Do we even know how much Zagreus weighs
He can walk on magma, but swim in blood. That's about as much as i know.
hoary slate
Nonbeliever
tame bison
Play on 0 heat and just glomp stuff with your unga bunga bat
I give this post a 10/10 for nonsense word usage
reef palm
He is not wrong, I just wish it were extra unga bunga
tame bison
He is not wrong, I just wish it were extra unga bunga
Arthur is kinda broken. My guess is that you aren’t linking the combo together particularly well. You can actually like attack once, hit attack again and kinda dash around with the 2nd part of the swing, and then attack again for the 3rd combo hit etc. it’s not a dash strike so to speak. And that should help your mobility a lot
uncut lintel
I would have to watch a clip of that to understand, as I also am frustrated with the combo for Arthur. My playstyle with it is Q then bonk that things that come close
tame bison
I would have to watch a clip of that to understand, as I also am frustrated with...
It’s the very last minute of this video talking about “priming” the attack. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cpnOOhSftGc
It’s still good to dash strike as this person says, but knowing how to kinda weave dashes into your main combo swings is important
uncut lintel
Thank you, I will watch this momentarily.
reef palm
Arthur is kinda broken. My guess is that you aren’t linking the combo together p...
I learned to do that eventually, the biggest issue was just trying to normal attack at poor times, and using stubborn defiance instead of death defiance for the prophecy. Can probably tinker with different boons as well, since Ares on attack didn't feel as good as I had hoped
tame bison
I guess the way to phrase it is that Arthur big chonky swings have a delay built into the combo so you can do swing #1, dash, swing #2 will still activate, dash again, swing #3. The combo doesn’t “die out” just bc you stop swinging briefly
Ares on Arthur is horrible haha
reef palm
Yeah I learned
tame bison
You can put Athena on attack if you have trouble. It’s surprisingly good
reef palm
Might try Aphrodite next attempt. Artemis is cool but for a slow weapon like that I think the weak effect will help some
tame bison
Obviously Aphrodite and Artemis are the best
reef palm
I had Athena on special
Which was fine enough
Not sure what better options there might be for that
tame bison
Ares is fine on that. More or less anything except Dio
fading nymph
hear rend=big number
static karma
Arthur feels less good once you turn on forced overtime 2
uncut lintel
I'm literally about to try that lmao
static karma
But on no forced overtime it feels pretty powerful
uncut lintel
Alright fun I'll wait
tame bison
It’s doable at FO2 it’s just significantly harder
torpid depot
uncut lintel
I'm running Aspect of Arthur with Artemis attack and Athena dash currently. I've got a Hermes boon from Charon in the final chamber before the Furies and he's offering (after a roll) Greater Evasion, Hyper Sprint, and Quick Recovery (Epic). I'm tempted to take QR as I feel I'll more than likely encounter Hermes again in Asphodel to possibly get HS at another time, but I'd also like to just have HS now. Thoughts?
strange lark
take hyper sprint
quick recover isnt that good
and hyper sprint can get you rush delivery
and that just means extra damage
uncut lintel
Fair enough. HS and RD combo is the goal with this Arthur run so I suppose it's smart to grab it immediately. My brain just sees purple and goes "ooga booga"
turbid needle
understandable
uncut lintel
What would be a good special to pair with Artemis attack and Athena Dash? I'm running Privileged Status for curse damage and have the boon from Athena to get her curse.
uncut lintel
Classic. Alrighty
Is there ever any real Well of Charon buffs to go for or just horde money for Charon's shop?
static karma
If you aren’t speedrunning then not usually
Cast weapons like Prometheus stone though
Because it’s just extra damage
uncut lintel
I like Yarn, and Bangle and occasionally Hydralite if I'm needing it but don't know if I should be grabbing those. Mind you I only grab them when I have extra coin.
I'm not actively speedrunning per-say but I do have on Tight Deadline 1
static karma
You should only buy yarn if the next door has a boon you want at a higher rarity
Otherwise it can hit a boon door you don’t care about, yarn is usually a waste of money
Saving for styx shop has more value than bangle, hydralite is fine if you need the healing at that point
If you’re rolling in cash though no reason not to buy it
But you’d have to have enough cash that you can afford Charon stuff after buying them
With no convenience fee off you’d want at least 150 for buying a boon, 275 gets boon and centaur heart or bag boon, 350 gets you boon and hammer but hammers in shops aren’t things I plan for (hammer alone is 200)
uncut lintel
Yes, I only get Yarn when I know the next chamber might have a boon I want. Bangle I like because 'big wack' on first hit.
And I only buy Well stuff if I know I'm going to have enough for Charon shop before boss room. Styx Charon I tend to farm the tunnels for coin and sell excess boons to allocate more from him
I don't plan for hammer in shop either, goal is always have at least 150 for a boon
static karma
So if you’ll still be at or above 275 after buying the well items you don’t have a reason not to buy
uncut lintel
Without CF of course
static karma
Yeah that’s a good goal
I think the shop value from having 275 gold to buy out the shop has more value than buying anything besides stuff that keeps you alive that would put you below it, if you’re between 150 and 275 then staying at or above 150 is the same deal if you just want a boon from shop (which is all you need to get good value from shop anyway) Hope this helps and isn’t confusing, a lot of this is subjective
uncut lintel
No, it helps. Thank you!
static karma
No problem, thinking about it here has actually helped solidify my break points if I decide to continue speedrunning (am taking a break from game right now)
325 buys everything including the healing snack
200 gets boon and healing snack, just some values to keep in mind
I don’t bother with well items most of the time if I’m not going for fastest possible time (in speedrunning and in high heat with max lasting consequences I don’t plan on buying the healing snack)
Wait sometimes you can get a Hermes boon and a regular boon both cost 150. So 300 is a good value to keep in mind if you want great shop value
uncut lintel
Got it
tame bison
I'm running Aspect of Arthur with Artemis attack and Athena dash currently. I've...
I would take greater evasion almost every time you see it aside from a few epic Hermes boons
reef palm
I'm running aspect of Arthur too, got Athena attack and aphro special, plus like 200% extra damage from chaos rooms (sitting on a hammer with the option to get even more based on coin carried)
turbid needle
hyper dash is def a very high priority hermes boon
prob migates more dmg than greater evasion does on average
uncut lintel
Alrighty, I've got here a Hammer with Shadow Slash, Greater Consecration and Breaching Slash. I currently have Double Strike(I think is the name). Running Aspect of Arthur.
turbid needle
get breachin
uncut lintel
Done
proven osprey
Shadow is better
static karma
Hyper sprint and greatest reflex are the best Hermes boons
Everything else is usually a consolation prize
uncut lintel
Astaos, why is shadow better?
static karma
If you have sprint then look for rush delivery though
turbid needle
oh
proven osprey
The base damage of Arthur leads to crazy backstabs
turbid needle
I misread
reef palm
get breachin
I have the same option myself but no Shadow, so I'll grab that since 25 isn't much extra damage
uncut lintel
@static karma I have HS and RD
turbid needle
I read cursed instead of shadow
proven osprey
Breaching is also really good don't worry
static karma
<@!266732686838595606> I have HS and RD
Nice, dash while doing your damage
uncut lintel
Shadow it is, thankfully I saw Astaos' chat before I clicked.
reef palm
Alright back to the heroes fight, let's hope I can beat them this time.
turbid needle
lmao
reef palm
What a poor fight to have reduced dash range from Chaos though
static karma
What a poor fight to have reduced dash range from Chaos though
You can look up on the wiki what chamber number the bosses are
That way you don’t accidentally take chaos curse into boss if you don’t want to
reef palm
Heroes destroyed me, I'm just gonna do stubborn defiance run on an easier weapon
reef palm
I guess this is progress on the autograph though
I'm not sure I've ever used the acorn tbh
reef palm
Usually just stick to the thing that levels up boons
static karma
Especially vs Hades
uncut lintel
Alright just grabbed Pat's bonus damage buff. Currently looking at a Skull Demeter chamber (more than likely Asterius) or a Trial chamber between Aphrodite and Artemis. I do not have heartrend yet or a cast boon, which is what I would grab from Demeter to hopefully lean to tracking lasers in the future.
static karma
Acorn gives you a lot of safety in heroes and hades fights
Since you’re learning stubborn defiance boss safety is very good
strange lark
Alright just grabbed Pat's bonus damage buff. Currently looking at a Skull Demet...
I would take dem
static karma
In the Hades fight you can save like 200 HP
proven osprey
You don't want Demeter's cast on Arthur
proven osprey
Because you'll lose the boiling blood damage that is really huge on Arthur
static karma
You want the cast lodged in yeah
uncut lintel
Alrighty, heard. But I do want a chance at Asterius and don't have any rerolls if her boons are doodoo. Do I just outright not want to take the Trial in Elysium?
static karma
You can grab another Demeter boon
It may not do much but it won’t be actively detrimental like cast
Trial is good if you’re confident but non trial is safer
Just take anything but cast when she offers
Your build is already good enough that you don’t care if future boons you get suck
uncut lintel
Hmmm... I was gonna try the Trial and then remembered the only thing I'm going for is their duo and I can't even get it from Trials. 
static karma
You have hyper sprint and rush delivery, you have at least +50% extra global damage when dashing
uncut lintel
True... I want the smaller life pool on Asterius during the Heroes fight too... ugh
Alright, left or right
static karma
Is this extreme measures asterius or no
uncut lintel
No it is not
static karma
Demeter room for sure
static karma
That’s an easier fight though
I’m happy to see butterfly ball
I dread asterius
Using Meg’s companion on the ball does make it a lot easier than bull
I think without companion it does get rough
uncut lintel
Was stupid easy, literally none of the eye orbs popped before I killed the ball. I wanted Asterius.
static karma
Why?
uncut lintel
Is Demeter's aid even worth? I also have the options for her cast (not taking) and snow burst
I enjoy fighting Asterius, I know his moveset
static karma
I would personally take snow burst and wait for Aphrodite call
uncut lintel
Got it
static karma
What gods do you have
boreal prism
I like dem aid, especially when I don't already have an aid by end of elysium
static karma
It’s not the best aid but it does stuff I guess
Taking aid isn’t wrong here
The only objectively wrong choice was crystal beam
uncut lintel
I have: Artemis Attack, Aphrodite Special, No Cast currently, Athena Dash and no Aid currently.
I grabbed Yarn from a Well before Charon's final shop and got Artemis with Heartrend.
boreal prism
The thing with aid is that the game reminds you to use it, whereas you can totally forget to use snowburst
Yeah you'll never use snowburst if you don't have a cast by now
static karma
He has hyper delivery, his damage is enough that he doesn’t need to make use of snow burst
You have enough damage that you need to not hinder your build more so than find minor ways to add damage
uncut lintel
This build wasn't focused on cast honestly, I wanted high crit and slapstick damage
uncut lintel
I know, I cast. Just haven't gone for cast boon as there were other options
turbid needle
Boiling Blood adds 100 damage to Arthur's homerun swing.
uncut lintel
I cast all the things, just not with a boon for this run
boreal prism
Do you have the mirror that gives more damage for status effects?
uncut lintel
I do
static karma
There is something to be said for filling in boon slots so you get what you want more often
boreal prism
You could have weak chill enemies with aid
static karma
I prefer family favorite now
uncut lintel
It procs with Reflect from Athena and Aphro's weak
static karma
It’s a damage boost you don’t have to work for
uncut lintel
I special then dash attack or vice versa and they are affected by PS
static karma
I did used to like PS a lot
boreal prism
You don't work much for PS either... but I probably go for status effects too much
uncut lintel
I've grown fond of PS due to wanting to get faster, that means not always grabbing every boon and sometimes losing ones
static karma
The thing about PS is that many curses last for a short time so your damage when you do have it isn’t always boosted. And Family Favourite starts helping right when you get your first boon
PS you often have to wait, or not get it at all
uncut lintel
I'm hitting for 1600 with final swing in the Arthur combo currently, that was without Boiling blood or PS on that enemy
static karma
That’s hyper sprint + rush delivery for you
uncut lintel
Oh yeah
I have a pom room or aphro, I kinda wanna try for Dem's aid in the tunnels later if I can to proc PS more like Riddler suggested so I don't want Aphro's aid. Is there any boons that she could offer I might want? I have a reroll. Only things I can think of are reduced damage or making weak affects last longer
Killed the Heroes in 23 seconds
static karma
Nice!
Killing heroes fast always feels really good especially since it isn’t that common to do
uncut lintel
The one Dem tunnel I got didn't give me her call even with the reroll. Sad.
fading nymph
sadge
uncut lintel
Got him, he melted two of my DD's though by activating his super laser three times in a row like a meanie
static karma
I mean once you get to phase 2 the only health point that matters is your last one, and win’s a win
Do you know about the trick where his laser doesn’t do damage if you’re right next to him
It doesn’t work on extreme measures 4 but you can hug dad if you’re brave and careful
uncut lintel
I was attempting that, that's why he was melting me. I thought I was right on top of him but I guess not
little quiver
if i want to go for the demeter cast with the spear, any other boons i should go for?
other than additional cast stones with stygain?
uncut lintel
Artemis duo to make it track faster is my preferred
strange lark
Glacial glare, mirage shot, crystal clarity, arctic blast, quick reload, bad news, and fully loaded
little quiver
mirage shot works with the lasers? sweet
strange lark
Yep
little quiver
well gonna go for artemis 2nd and then get pose in elysium
uncut lintel
pp man knows the way of Hades
little quiver
true
reef palm
Heroes destroyed me, I'm just gonna do stubborn defiance run on an easier weapon
And this time, I destroyed them. Barely even got hit.
uncut lintel
nice
reef palm
First run without using any death defies I think, wow
reef palm
So if I wanted to do a dash only run, I assume Tidal Dash is the way to go?
valid prism
Zeus dash is funny as well
tame bison
Lol I was just going to say that. That’s a challenge
I mean it’s all viable depending on how much time you want to spend dashing in circles
Tidal probably the simplest
valid prism
I'm tempted to say Zeus is more simple because you don't have to aim
But dps is lower than tidal
reef palm
Tidal Dash was actually pretty easy tbh, thanks to Gilgamesh. I plan to do it again but wasn't sure if I should change it up
tame bison
Yeah bc you miss with the bolts even when you aim so what’s the point of aiming right
Ares dash is fun
reef palm
I think I'll try Ares even though it sounds like it won't be that good
valid prism
It's bad on its own without additional boons
while tidal is very functionnal and zeus dash feels fine with double strike or Static Discharge
tame bison
Yeah it’s similar to Zeus where you just need the tier 2 boons to really make it pop
fading nymph
I did dash only with ares and didn't get any blade rift boons
I cleared but it was a 72 minutes
so its def a gamble
turbid needle
72 minute run jesus
fading nymph
When your only damage source is a common ares dash boon its going to take a while
reef palm
I got one blade rift boon in Styx and have evolved to to a "I will never directly attack" run by getting a bunch of revenge boons and that sort of thing.
At Hades, am prepared to lose though
Stubborn defiance will only help me for so long
Got him halfway through second phase, damn
mighty isle
So, I get the feeling that Ares + Dionysus would be the best build for raw damage.
That true?
fading nymph
It depends on the wepon
mighty isle
Yeah, that makes sense.
Boons I thought were awesome are kinda meh when I change to another weapon.
cunning urchin
I can't think of any optimal build that prioritizes getting that combo.
zenith wind
i have caught 108 fish and have never caught a legendary fish.
the window is literally too small for my reaction time.
like i tested it mine is about .36
less than .34 is pretty much impossible for me to hit
is there any possible way to give myself a better chance other than "git gud lol"?
also, i still haven't maxed out my ares relationship despite having completed war gods bloodlust
cunning urchin
If the first three bobs are fake, the fourth bob will always be real.
You could place a finger on the bobber to not get distracted by fake bobs, then you only need to react when you see a flash above your finger.
jovial fulcrum
So, I get the feeling that Ares + Dionysus would be the best build for raw damag...
Its very good damage, but its too inconsistent to get the pieces together
reliably, that is
cunning urchin
It's not too hard, but it's not optimal even at its best.
jovial fulcrum
and it gets harder with stuff like RI
cunning urchin
The best Doom build for DPS is Merciful End.
fading nymph
Ol reliable
cunning urchin
The best DPS for Hangover is with Low Tolerance.
fading nymph
exept getting all the pieces isn't that reliable
what makes low tolerance better than nausea?
zenith wind
You could place a finger on the bobber to not get distracted by fake bobs, then ...
kinda need both hands to hold the controler
cunning urchin
Well, you only need one hand to press A or whatever when fishing.
Are you playing on a TV? Can you turn on anything like a "gaming mode"? That skips all the post-processing that TVs normally do and reduces display lag by a lot that way.
zenith wind
nah, just a kind of crappy laptop
cunning urchin
TVs have awful display lag.
360ms average response time usually points to very high input lag somewhere.
But even then, it's an average. Average is just one metric.
Response time can vary a lot.
zenith wind
i misread, its 0.33 to 0.34 on average
i have some mild fine motor control issues though
cunning urchin
Hmm.
Do you have V-Sync turned on? Try turning that off in Hades.
V-Sync adds some input lag.
zenith wind
my point is, i would appreciate it if the window for a perfect catch was made a bit bigger in the next patch
cunning urchin
Well, tbh that's very unlikely to happen. But there are still things you can try to make it easier, anyway.
zenith wind
why is that unlikely
cunning urchin
The dev team is not really looking into making any more balance changes. The game is very much complete and done. Current patches only address bugs and localization. You're not the first person to ask for easier perfect catches, either, and so far there's been not a single change to it.
If you want them to see your feedback, though, your best bet is posting in #test-branch-discussion, probably.
zenith wind
ah, i thought this was were to put it
cunning urchin
There's also the fact that you're saying yourself you're playing on a crappy laptop, and while they did a lot to ensure the game runs on weaker hardware, balancing any reaction aspect for input lag on weak hardware would affect the experience on better hardware a lot.
zenith wind
i think it has more to do with the fact that i have autism and some fine motor control problems then any sort of input lag
when i'm properly warmed up, i can get it to about .27 or .28 but you only get one chance with fishing
i guess if im right on the threshold though it might be worth it
cunning urchin
If you yourself are calling your laptop crappy, it's probably a combination of the two. It only takes like 15ms of input lag to change a reaction from "very difficult" to "virtually impossible".
V-Sync alone can add like 40ms of input lag depending on hardware and stuff.
zenith wind
it was like a decent light gaming laptop when i got it around 5 years ago
i'll try turning vsync off next time though
cunning urchin
If there's anything you can turn off maybe to increase your frame rate in the game, that could also help.
Fullscreen should have better input lag than windowed mode.
zenith wind
its a pretty consistant 60
occasionally it will really start to chug but i've never had that happen during fishing (or combat)
cunning urchin
Is your pad connected via bluetooth or USB? I know the DS4 has more input lag in USB mode at least on the PS4, not sure it has that issue on PC, too.
cunning urchin
Could work. Could also be worth. Might be worth a try.
And yeah, if holding a finger over the bobber isn't an option, just focus on the flash, and if it isn't the first three, it's always the fourth.
So you can just react immediately for the fourth bob and don't have to worry about fake bobs.
zenith wind
i can maybe make the finger trick work
cunning urchin
That should make that reaction quote a bit faster because you don't have to distinguish the cues.
Good luck! 
zenith wind
i got a dnd game i gotta dm now, thanks for the tips
cunning urchin
Worst case, there are some modders who could help you with a mod to make it easier.
Probably just a single line of lua for them.
queen arrow
i guess if im right on the threshold though it might be worth it
FWIW, I have a lot of trouble hitting the perfect catch visually, but I can react to the sound with a very high success rate. So when I'm fishing, I look away from the screen and just listen.
grand night
Vengeful Mood = Auto-Revenge effects. That's not even revenge anymore, that's just assault.
fading nymph
So when I'm using Eris I'm dash striking a ton (probably a habit I picked up from fists) but I was wondering if I should be doing that or just standing still.
turbid needle
You should be doing that.
Dash-Strikes with the Rail have a much faster rate of fire than standing Attacks, and it gets your Dash more engaged.
fading nymph
ok ty
peak jolt
I found a build for the spear and I would like to call it "Vlad the impaler"
basically you get the curse of agony and then try to get extending jab and flurry jab and maybe get a dire misfortune as well
solid sable
does anyone have a maxed save without epilogue mine corrupted and i happened to have steam cloud off ._.
turbid needle
you can grab max saves from speedrun.com
limber cloak
im pretty sure that one has the epilogue done
because it has ||bonds with every olympian, 50 clears, and persephone at home.||
though idk for sure
silk hearth
might be hard to find such a save
its better to find the epilogue on youtube or something
valid prism
I have a save without epilogue, like no summon, 21 aspects/24 with not a single blood spent on them
but idk what you are expecting when you say "maxed"
cunning urchin
does anyone have a maxed save without epilogue mine corrupted and i happened to ...
The devs have save files with different progress if you ask for help in #h1-tech-support.
little niche
how hard you think fresh file run is?
strange lark
its pretty hard
little niche
would you consider it harder than full heat or something
strange lark
64 heat is impossible
little niche
i thought 32 is full heat
strange lark
no
you can get 63 heat in a normal save file
but you need hell mode to get 64 heat
32 heat is needed to get the third skelly thing
valid prism
If you compare with 32 heat, 32 heat is probably easier unless you make a hard pact
strange lark
yeah
strange lark
64 heat is impossible
well 64 heat has been done but it was a routed run
little niche
what does it mean routed run? scripted inputs or something?
strange lark
i dont know much about the run
lucid oar
what does it mean routed run? scripted inputs or something?
Each room reward was manipulated before entering each door
Using casts and summons
little niche
oh right
lucid oar
So there was no RNG, good for AP2
strange lark
yeah
valid prism
Studied seed, specific inputs made in order to manipulate the RNG
strange lark
all i knew was that there was rng manipulating
little niche
makes sense yeah
turbid needle
fresh file forces you to play zag sword so its terrible :(
fading nymph
It’s even worse than zag sword
Bc it’s at level zero so it does nothing instead of a not very good something
turbid needle
A second Status Curse for Privileged Status (recommend Aphrodite or more Athena), and Hyper Sprint/Rush Delivery.
The build's pretty much complete otherwise.
pastel birch
yeah, I'll get expose on the Athena, and that should work?
turbid needle
Yup.
pastel birch
opal lodge
it is but its also usually the second duo ME builds go for
warm aspen
Exagryph with a Zeus only attack oriented build is the easiest op build to come by
Change my mind
boreal prism
How about gilgamesh splash dash
boreal prism
Step 1: equip gilgamesh
Step 2: get splash dash
Step 3: dash
Step 4: splash
boreal prism
Zeus atk is worse for bosses
warm aspen
Zeus atk is worse for bosses
Zeus oriented, I didn't say it was just the attack
jovial fulcrum
you literally said Zeus only
warm aspen
Splitting bolt is a big part of the build and the curse effect thing
warm aspen
you literally said Zeus only
Yes, Zeus only, but not Zeus attack only
jovial fulcrum
add heartbreak flourish and pick up smoldering air
makes it a lot better than straight zeus only
I'm assuming Eris though, which I guess I shouldn't
warm aspen
Zagreus
strange lark
Spread fire zag rail with artemis attack is better than zeus attack zag rail
jovial fulcrum
Start on splash dash, then get Artemis somewhere in tart is the speed strat for Zag rail i believe
lucid oar
Start on splash dash, then get Artemis somewhere in tart is the speed strat for ...
It's currently ME I think
Either that or spread fire crit, but that's more high-roll
jovial fulcrum
okay, well then it used to be what I said lol
warm aspen
Start on splash dash, then get Artemis somewhere in tart is the speed strat for ...
I don't need speed, I require easy build bc I am a lazy bum
jovial fulcrum
ME is already kinda high roll tbh
lucid oar
Idk, I don't speedrun zag rail atm
lucid oar
ME is already kinda high roll tbh
Natural athena is about 40%, getting spread fire is less than 30%
So spread fire is considered more high roll
But yeah they are both pretty high roll
jovial fulcrum
You need more than natural athena.
Idk, I guess I shouldn't try to assume though since I'm not a speedrunner
lucid oar
You need more for both, crit needs chaos
Tbh all speedruns are high roll if you want to go really fast
lucid oar
I got about 13 minutes on Hestia, don't know what the boonless wr is
jovial fulcrum
hestia with, like, hazard bomb to help with bossing seems pretty good for boonless
lucid oar
I'll check what I had
solid sable
The devs have save files with different progress if you ask for help in <#520430...
Aight, i asked there
cunning urchin
Good luck!
opaque hare
any boons similar to vengeful mood? in the sense that you can get a good versatile build while aiming for it on the run since it involves various gods
silk hearth
i assume thats a duo boon?
opaque hare
yes
silk hearth
most duo boons are kinda versatile i think
smouldering air is good
zeus/aphro duo boon
opaque hare
time to get creative with that one then
uncut lintel
Looking for some tips with mirror for a first time Beo run. Anyone got some?
cunning urchin
Infernal Soul, Dark Foresight, God's Legacy, Fated Persuasion.
Go for Passion Flare (Lady Aphrodite's Cast) or Tempest Flare (Poseidon's Cast), and then go for Mirage Shot.
uncut lintel
All of those are standard for me so good to know.
And sounds good.
cunning urchin
The rest is kind of whatever you want.
Stygian Soul if you want to do a Trippy Flare (Lord Dionysus's Cast) run.
uncut lintel
Thank you Mewmew.
cunning urchin
I'd take Fiery Presence over Shadow Presence since you're gonna try to one-shot enemies anyway.
uncut lintel
Fiery Presence is the only one I run, I like big wack damage. lol.
Side note, there is an incredibly new player in that chat who might have some questions
I have Pulverizing Blow, Charged Shot and Dashing Flight for this opening hammer.
I'm leaning towards PB to keep them on me so I can punish but DF would be nice too
cunning urchin
Charged Shot is easily the best hammer on all shields.
uncut lintel
I've only used it one time for the prophecy and don't recall how it plays. I'll try it in another run.
opal lodge
charged shot is amazing on every shield
pulv blow is niche pick
mostly good on zeus shield and zag shield
opal lodge
rip
tempest strike is pretty bad unless youre going for sea storm
just skip the middleman and run zeus attack
tidal tide
heard that its a fun build and it WAS but
opal lodge
to get sea storm
opal lodge
it doesnt really do damage without sea storm
valid prism
Well fun doesn't mean easy if you go for blue beam luci 👀
tame bison
My favorite luci build is Eris
strange lark
Nice
languid forum
what attack boon works nicely with aspect of Beowulf
languid forum
deadly strike is the one from artemis right
hoary slate
yes
valid prism
- Arty atk is a part of your required conditions is you try to get Mirage Shot
lucid oar
that's a duo boon tho
It's a very strong duo boon, easily the best duo boon on beowulf
languid forum
which two gods do i need to get it?
light pine
Artemis and Poseidon
light pine
Cast fires a second projectile that has reduced damage
turbid needle
except its not reduced on beo
thorny pond
How do you get the last aspect of the weapons?
lucid oar
Have you unlocked the last one for the spear?
Reach the final boss (defeating the boss is not required) Invest Titan Blood into 5 separate non-Zagreus aspects. Talk to Achilles (with any weapon equipped) until he gives you the waking-phrase ("I see you through the eyes of the crimson phoenix")
After that you can begin to unlock the last aspects for the other weapons
lucid oar
Yes
strange lark
How do you get the last aspect of the weapons?
Check pinned messages in #h1-story-discussion
opaque hare
can lightning backstab?
strange lark
No
opaque hare
i just found out that dash special doesnt count as special when affected by a curse of chaos
pretty neat
with the fists at least
opaque hare
??
strange lark
Yeah
opaque hare
nicee
strange lark
Hunters dash and chaos dash strike boons buff it
strange lark
It's fine
I will usually use artemis special with aphro dash to get heartrend
On Dem fists
On everything else I'll use ME
opaque hare
whats ME
opaque hare
which aspects do you play with that
strange lark
All of the fist aspects except dem
You can also use ME on sword but I've only done that once
strange lark
Bruh
pastel birch
ME on Zeus shield is my favourite
Doom on special and deflect on attack and you're set to melt most things like butter
uncut lintel
That sounds like a fun time
opaque hare
gonna have to try that
strange lark
But it's really easy to set up since you don't need athena dash
pastel birch
if you get exposed too, you can trigger privileged status with each hit, along with the doom
Which is free 40% stronger dooms 
uncut lintel
nods in Jack Nicholson
feral sail
i still can't really figure out how to use hades' keepsake/call effectively, does anybody have particular builds they like with it?
uncut lintel
Press F when greater call is ready for free buffed damage and immunity from all damage sources. I dunno. If I'm not focusing on a call build I'll grab Hades' keepsake.
jovial fulcrum
Which is free 40% stronger dooms <:squirtyay:456913427550699552>
its only really 15% more damage.
Since the alternative mirror option gives 25% by the end of your average run
bleak oak
Is there any reason to not start with Athena’s keepsake to get the Dash/reflect ability? It seems like the biggest game changer to me so far, I breeze thru the first world with it every time since unlocking it
silk hearth
if ur build or aspect needs a specific boon at the very start then it would be better to use a different keepsake
otherwise its fine
uncut lintel
Alright, just dumped a ton of blood into Guan Yu so it's max. Now... what do I do? lol
silk hearth
arte/aphro on attack and spam dash attack
from what i rmb what i was using guan yu lol
uncut lintel
oooh. I was hoping to incorporate the spin attack
bleak oak
if ur build or aspect needs a specific boon at the very start then it would be b...
Sorry if this is a noob question- but I’m about 6 hours in and owl pendant seems 100% OP to me, what else do people like to use
silk hearth
spin takes too long i think
uncut lintel
Sorry if this is a noob question- but I’m about 6 hours in and owl pendant seems...
Oh, there is SO much to discover and try with your play style
silk hearth
Sorry if this is a noob question- but I’m about 6 hours in and owl pendant seems...
some weapons want like zeus attack or artemis attack
but athena dash fits in almost every build so its good
boreal prism
At some point projectiles stop being a problem because you know how to dodge them
That doesn't make athena worse but it does make other options more viable
bleak oak
Yeah this is my first roguelite, I’m having troubles staying alive now
uncut lintel
Don't worry about that. Embrace death! It's a key mechanic to getting stronger and progressing the story.
bleak oak
I could see Athena being good for something spoilerish
uncut lintel
Focus on learning the enemies moves, the weapon(s) and the boons for now.
boreal prism
Athena and Zeus are fantastic gods for when you're still learning how enemies go
bleak oak
Don't worry about that. Embrace death! It's a key mechanic to getting stronger a...
Yeah i like the story, it makes me feel better to know I’m at least progressing something when I die lol
uncut lintel
Just a heads up @bleak oak this channel allows spoilers, if you want to avoid or minimize those, I would head to the new player channel
bleak oak
Just a heads up <@!110678662264705024> this channel allows spoilers, if you want...
Oh sorry
boreal prism
Huh? I think you misunderstood
This channel is where you CAN talk about the whole game freely
jovial fulcrum
Gosh, dont you all love that thing at the end of the game?
You know, the really awesome thing
its so cool
bleak oak
Ohhh I see
bleak oak
Gosh, dont you all love that thing at the end of the game?
You know, the really ...
NO
Lol
boreal prism
When the dog shows up and then you're like... woah
jovial fulcrum
are you able to gift nectar to other characters yet
oh yeah
duh, you have athena's leepsake
bleak oak
Yeah I’ve been focusing on Nectar a lot lately
jovial fulcrum
Cerberus's and Skelly's keepsakes both help a lot with surviving while you learn the game
bleak oak
When the dog shows up and then you're like... woah
Jokes on you I just got to that part last night 😎
bleak oak
Bruh bet
jovial fulcrum
EM-Fun 
bleak oak
How else would I know that dog says grrr
uncut lintel
Basilisk woke today and chose violence apparently lol
drowsy flint
So, what would be a good Beowulf build for EM4
Maybe Merciful End? With the Cast it May be something
elder gale
Zagreus Spear, Hades Call, Aphro attack.
Hammer choices are Extending Jab, Chain Skewer, and Quick Spin.
drowsy flint
I mean, starting with Zags Spear already makes it so its not Beowulf Shield ngl
silk hearth
omg haha
drowsy flint
Oh, im half-stupid sorry
elder gale
XD
uncut lintel
Quick Spin, easily
cunning urchin
Alright, just dumped a ton of blood into Guan Yu so it's max. Now... what do I d...
Spin builds can work just fine, for sure. But you kind of leave your options open and then see what you get first hammer.
But Special > Dash-Strike x2 is still an important combo either way.
You can play with just the spin and nothing else, just the Special and nothing else, or just the Special > Dash-Strike x2 combo and nothing else.
But ideally you incorporate all of that as the situation demands to make the most of it.
When you're at or near full HP, for example, there's no need to take unnecessary risks with spins.
You'd be better off looking at optimizing your DPS to reduce enemy numbers faster.
Cast > Dash-Strike x2 is also very good combo and comes out faster than using Special instead.
uncut lintel
That's essentially how I played it, I just let myself get hit too much and then tried too hard to spin and got hit more. Didn't help that I miss clicked off of the faster spin hammer.
cunning urchin
Yeah, it takes experience to know when it's better to just play it safe or play aggressive than try to spin.
uncut lintel
Practice, Practice and most importantly Practice
uncut lintel
I truly despise when Tis is the support Fury for EM. Her making the arena be covered in smoke is such a pain
scarlet yoke
i thought it was always all three
uncut lintel
Not always
turbid needle
yeah im not a fan of "you cant see" gimmicks
I can also never tell apart real crystals from clones
its fine on other enemies but for crystals its rly wierd
scarlet yoke
As if crystals weren't already succ
languid forum
what hammer upgrades should aspect of beowulf have?
lucid oar
what hammer upgrades should aspect of beowulf have?
Charged shot
languid forum
ah ok thanks
astral bear
Does anyone have a good build for the Aspect of Arthur? I couldn't think of anything
valid prism
Aphro attack has a good synergy with Arthur special
astral bear
for the damage reduction? i guess yea
astral bear
yea alright, i'll try to make a tanky build
shy barn
you can also get some fun ones with the special
valid prism
Then you can keep on with Aphro boons or start looking for Athena along the way (divine dash, exposed effect etc.)
astral bear
i'll try, thanks
shadow lark
quick question
cunning urchin
No.
shadow lark
lol
cunning urchin
Quick answer. 
strange lark
start the run like normal and then equip athenas keepsake in asphodel to get dds
shadow lark
i'm trying to complete the prophecy and it's the only talent i have no idea how to use
what's dds?
cunning urchin
Yeah. Take Owl Pendant into Asphodel to get her Attack, Special, Cast, or Dash.
Death Defiances.
strange lark
yeah
cunning urchin
If you lose your Stubborn Defiance (SD) in the chamber before taking her Last Stand or Deathless Stand, she'll replenish the slot with a DD.
strange lark
if you replenish your sd with an athena dd you get a permanent dd
cunning urchin
And then in the next chamber, you get your SD back like normal.
strange lark
when you walk out of that room you get your sd back
shadow lark
oooh that's cool
but i do need to die in the athena room to use up my defiance, right?
strange lark
ye
shadow lark
aight aight
cunning urchin
i had no idea
Neither did the devs until we told Amir about it during Early Access.
cunning urchin
Touch of Styx from Wells and from Patroclus is good.
Nothing in particular. Just whatever works best for you.
shadow lark
i imagine for the same permanent defiance reason?
cunning urchin
Touch of Styx is different from Kiss of Styx.
strange lark
10% each
cunning urchin
Which is a lot.
strange lark
patty gives you one that heals 50%
shadow lark
like, do i get 40% for an sd?
strange lark
yeah
shadow lark
or like, 33?
cunning urchin
+50%, so you heal for 80% of your max HP.
shadow lark
oh ok
shadow lark
+50%, so you heal for 80% of your max HP.
YO WHAT
cunning urchin
The one from Patroclus.
shadow lark
goddamn
cunning urchin
SD is meta for high heat because it lets you circumvent LC4.
shadow lark
wait
cunning urchin
So you could do LC4 for your pact if you want to try that and see how it plays. Might be fun.
shadow lark
so the items from patroclus and well that replenish my defiances
now make it so defiances heal for more?
cunning urchin
Kiss of Styx = replenish, only appear when you have DDs from the mirror
Touch of Styx = more healing, only appear with SD
strange lark
np
cunning urchin
Lady Athena's Last Stand also gives you +10% healing from all your SDs and DDs at common.
And more at higher rarity.
But it's not worth rerolling for higher rarity.
But that's why you'd pick Last Stand over Deathless Stand if both are offered.
So since she has two boons that replenish DDs, you can get two DDs from her.
cunning urchin
thanks guys
m a girl, though.
strange lark
oh no
silk hearth
thanks girls*
shadow lark
So since she has two boons that replenish DDs, you can get two DDs from her.
i see
i imagine sd always gets used before dd?
strange lark
wait what
cunning urchin
Yes.
shadow lark
m a girl, though. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
my b 
silk hearth
btw, does using call interrupt bow attack
cunning urchin
Yes.
cunning urchin
Remember you can use your Call for i-frames just like a dash.
silk hearth
i assume there are less i frames
cunning urchin
Pretty sure Call activation has more i-frames than Dash.
shadow lark
ok wait a minute, i'm very confused
so i just got last stand, i think it was
and it added one thing
but the skill's description says "stubborn defiance restores more health, restore 1 use"
does that 1 use count as a stubborn defiance, or as a death defiance?
strange lark
dd
shadow lark
aka, is that a 1 time use?
strange lark
1 time use
shadow lark
oh ok
strange lark
that would be too broken
shadow lark
and they're used from right to left, correct?
strange lark
np
silk hearth
Pretty sure Call activation has more i-frames than Dash.
oh wow
red hound
what a decent build for gilgamesh fists?
strange lark
splash dash, sea storm, double strike, typhoons fury, breaking wave, razor shoals, jolted, splitting bolt
extra dashes from hermes
red hound
i suppose a poseidon start then
strange lark
yeah
cunning urchin
Use Ruthless Reflex.
You can hold down your Dash button when using Gilgamesh, don't have to mash it.
It's Gilgamesh, not Gilgamash.
strange lark
bruh
cunning urchin
Make sure you get a lot of poms on your Dash.
opaque hare
what keepsake do you take for elysium if you already got the boons you want
strange lark
acorn
opaque hare
and do you keep it for styx too?
strange lark
yeah
jovial fulcrum
Acorn, Tooth, Sigil
strange lark
ill take sigil if im speedrunning
jovial fulcrum
Hourglass can be good sometimes.
For example, if you're a cast build and there's +1 stone in the mid well
strange lark
ill take hourglass sometimes
opaque hare
i take hourglass mostly i think