h1-builds-and-combat

[honest wing]

I'll try doing divine strike deadly flourish passion dash deadly reversal heart rend Dem Fist buil

been a while since I pulled out Ye Olde Punchy Bois

[mystic ember]

That sounds like a good one

Btw, what are good builds for guan yu? I am kinda struggling with it

I have it fully upgraded with titan blood

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Flourish + Deadly Strike for Heart Rend is very good. The reverse is also doable.

But once you have Heartbreak Flourish, any % Attack is good.

Tempest Strike can be very odd unless you fully lean into it.

[mystic ember]

Is heart rend the aphro and artimis duo boon? I can never remember the names

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[mystic ember]

Alright

Thanks for the advice

[honest wing]

yooo tempest strike on guan yu lmfao that would be hilarious

that would be like tempest flourish on zeus shield

[turbid needle]

I was surprised they included a Chinese general of all things

[mystic ember]

Which God has the tempest boons? I suck with names

[cunning urchin]

Tempest Strike Guan Yu spin build can be very effective.

Poseidon.

[mystic ember]

Ah, that...

Yeah that's a weird idea

[cunning urchin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/787460139220336680/Hades_1240.png

[mystic ember]

Oh my god

[cunning urchin]

The knockback on the spin is ridiculously good.

[mystic ember]

But isn't that like, really counterproductive?

With the whole life steal thing?

[cunning urchin]

Doesn't matter if you don't heal much if you still constantly heal and nothing ever gets to hit you.

[turbid needle]

So knockback build for Guan Yu, interesting.

[mystic ember]

Huh

I'll have to try it out

[cunning urchin]

It's fun, but you have to fully lean into it.

[turbid needle]

Same, I’ll give it a whirl.

[cunning urchin]

Like I had all the Poseidon t2 boons + his legendary lol. Only missed Sea Storm.

[mystic ember]

You'll have to get lucky with those Dedulus enchantments

I don't usually get two spin upgrades

[cunning urchin]

Just one would do a decent job, anyway.

[mystic ember]

Huh

The build does look quite fun

[cunning urchin]

Generally on Guan Yu, the hammers you want are Charged Skewer > Quick Spin > Massive Spin > Breaching Skewer or Serpent Wing. Serrated Point is good if you have extra dashes.

And Breaching Skewer becomes top priority for the second hammer if you have Charged Skewer already.

[mystic ember]

What does skewer do again?

[cunning urchin]

Charged Skewer shortens the startup of Guan Yu's Special a whole lot and lets you hold your Special for up to triple base damage.

[mystic ember]

Ah

I see

[cunning urchin]

It's so much better than the other hammers that speedruns and very high heat essentially become resetting until you get Charged Skewer in Tartarus.

[mystic ember]

Huh

That sounds good

[honest wing]

if you get poseidon attack and you want sea storm

I would assume bouncy skewer with zeus special would be fun

[cunning urchin]

You can't get Chain Skewer on Guan Yu.

You'll want Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish ideally, anyway, for the high % damage. Guan Yu's Special has 45 base damage, piercing, and wide AOE.

[proven osprey]

Don't go tempest strike Guan Yu though

Unless you don't mind that your run lasts 45 minutes

Might as well kite your enemies back, group them up and unleash a deadly spin

Than knocking them back, getting half the damage and healing

[cunning urchin]

20 minutes mirrorless 32 is hardly that slow lol.

[magic rivet]

Hey does Tempest Flourish Guan Yu work?

I've been thinking of trying it

[proven osprey]

Very well

It's a super strong special

[cunning urchin]

It's not a speedrun build, but it can be quite effective and fun when you fully lean into it.

[magic rivet]

Since Poseidon has the second highest special damage bonus for some reason

Nice

[proven osprey]

Yeah it's fun just no really optimal

And can be a bit weird at first

[magic rivet]

Why's it a bit weird?

[proven osprey]

The damage is really good and rupture/wave pounding is excellent

[cunning urchin]

Tempest Flourish on Guan Yu is poor tbh. High % damage, but the knockback keeps pushing them out of range of follow-up Specials. I'd take any other % Special over that, but it's good to fall back on if nothing else shows up.

[proven osprey]

Not really from my experience

It's one of the top special on Guan Yu

[cunning urchin]

That's questionable.

[proven osprey]

Not really

[cunning urchin]

Yes, it is.

[proven osprey]

The damage is really good, rupture is super strong and wave pounding too. The knock back is not a problem through Tartarus/asphodel when you nearly one shot your foes

[magic rivet]

Eh, I'll try it for real and see how well it works

[proven osprey]

And in Elysium stuff just runs at you and kills itself with rupture

Lining stuff up is still really possible

[cunning urchin]

So you're relying on a t2 to get damage. Cool.

[honest wing]

what are the best tier 2s for poseidon

[magic rivet]

Oh, there's a lot

[honest wing]

like obviously you probably want all of them but like which is the best best

[cunning urchin]

Tempest Flourish is slow.

[proven osprey]

Lol

[magic rivet]

Depends on your situation really

Well, I'm not looking for fast on GY, just fun

[honest wing]

in general which is the best Pos t2

like say you have eris rail splash dash

[proven osprey]

I get rupture frequently on AP2 RI2

[magic rivet]

Oh Eris?

Wave pounding I think?

[proven osprey]

Rely on a t2 is not bad until extreme heats

[cunning urchin]

"Frequently" lol.

[magic rivet]

Rupture is good to get rid of the bloody Chariot on EM3 at least

[proven osprey]

Yup really good for that

[cunning urchin]

Just because you do a million runs doesn't mean it's frequent.

Razor Shoals > Breaking Wave > others.

[coral cave]

This is gettin heated

[proven osprey]

I mean

You're advocating tempest strike GY

And you say the flourish is slow

[cunning urchin]

I said Tempest Strike can be effective and fun, not that it's fast.

Tempest Flourish isn't fast, either. Not saying it can't work.

[proven osprey]

It's not the fastest for sure

Still better than most flourish

But if I get it on AP2, I'm happy

[cunning urchin]

Sure, you'd take anything with % at that point lol.

[proven osprey]

Yeah

[magic rivet]

My first hammer was not Charged Skewer, so back to the drawing board

[proven osprey]

My idea of "good" has really changed since I play 50 heat

Ares aid remains garbage though, I hate it so much

[cunning urchin]

Ares' Aid is "I guess I'll at least have a panic button for this boss, hopefully I can sell it."

[proven osprey]

Yeah

Everytime I'm forced to use it I'm like "ok that's a pure waste of time, good job dude"

[idle carbon]

what do you mean no bounties left for dis weapon ?!?

I am offended

[cunning urchin]

You get bounties up 20 Heat or in Hell mode 25 Heat.

[idle carbon]

didn't know that

[cunning urchin]

Well.

Now you know.

[idle carbon]

the moar you know

[proven osprey]

I have bounties for shield and rail still

[magic rivet]

I didn't get Charged Skewer in Elysium

Welp

[proven osprey]

No big deal tbh

What heat is it?

[hearty elbow]

Whoah, for rail? Wild. I have sword/spear still

[magic rivet]

It's only 13

But I was really going for Tempest Flourish special build so I just reset the run

[autumn steeple]

Does anybody know how to get 30% for Thorn of Thanatos please? I saw that most people use the bow but not sure what the build was for it cos it looked like it did a lot of damage.

[lime jolt]

I barely have any bounties because I die too much

And lots of resets

[honest wing]

I tried it with hestia and did pretty well, not 30% tho

[lime jolt]

Max I’ve gotten was 54%

Divine protection was pretty nice

And divine dash

[autumn steeple]

Ah awesome thank you!

It's so hard to not get hit!

[lime jolt]

Hestia is very good for pierced butterfly

[honest wing]

what if you could equip two keepsakes at once lmao

broken spearpoint and pierced butterfly true combo

along with divine protection and divine dash and holy shield too maybe

[coral cave]

Butterfly and plume at once

Acorn and spearpoint

[honest wing]

oooh yea acorn also

[autumn steeple]

Oh, man I wish. Or swap weapons between each boss lol

[honest wing]

it's hard to do encounters quick while also not taking damage

[honest wing]

lmao imagine if every biome maybe, your weapon changed randomly

so same build, different weapon

it would be weird with something like beowulf, but the rest I think can work

[coral cave]

But imagine if someone could pull it off

Madness

[honest wing]

like zeus attack build on eris, enter asphodel, boom you have rama bow with zeus attack now, get rekt

[honest wing]

it will probably be due to extreme luck and offering to RNGesus

[coral cave]

Mhm

[lime jolt]

Nah hestia can go really fast

[honest wing]

hestia is my 0 heat PB but only coz I haven't done a 0 heat eris lmao

[limber cloak]

Its not as hard tbh

plume lasts really long

It'd only be hard in boss fights i think

[uncut mural]

is it possible to kill asterius in the elite fight if you use aphrodites call, and just have him not there at the end of layer? and just deal with thesus?
dealing enough damage before he goes invincible.

[proven osprey]

Nope

You can actually "kill" him by emptying his hp bar

But he'll go impervious anyway

[uncut mural]

i see

same happens with hades in the first stage?

[proven osprey]

Yeah skipping phases is no longer a thing

It used to be with Lernie in early access according to what people say

[uncut mural]

i see

second thing

is there an hp cap?

or can you in theory get enough centuar hearts, souls, or maybe necture so that even if you do somehow die at 1000 health youll either be at 300 800 or 500

[proven osprey]

If there is a cap, no one reached it yet

I've seen big numbers but not 1000 unfortunately

[uncut mural]

well guess i have a life goal now

[proven osprey]

Arthur + Dio + Aphrodite and get lucky

also chaos

[uncut mural]

and thanatos

[proven osprey]

yeah but it's only 25hp once in a run so

[uncut mural]

i mean its a two for one deal if you get nectur and than

or a heart

and maybe even three if it has a well

[proven osprey]

yeah, too bad than heart is not a room reward

Life Affirmation won't work on it

but it works on darkness

[cloud vault]

I think Haelian did a run where he picked up epic life affirmation in tart

Arthur with Cerberus collar

[lime jolt]

I think he got 900+ helth

[autumn steeple]

It's also hoping you get those boons on that run as well :/

[lime jolt]

Ye

Natural athena is huge

Since you can’t force gods with than

[turbid needle]

what does the tiny skull on the bottom of the orb mean when going to a new room?

[lime jolt]

Miniboss/elite chamber

If it is a god reward, that means it’s a miniboss

If it’s keys, gems, darkness etc, that means it’ll have armored enemies

[magic rivet]

I did it a second time and I got Charged Skewer in Tartarus

It was fun once I got a few secondary boons and Exclusive Access

I got all of them, but I couldn't get Second Wave

I did get Sea Storm though

[cunning urchin]

That's just High Confidence speedruns.

[jovial fulcrum]

GY High Confidence op

[cunning urchin]

The faster you get, the more efficient you become at both.

[limber cloak]

I go hc with fists everytime and then i take a c1 chaos gate lol

[cunning urchin]

I do that with Guan Yu.

[limber cloak]

Though i suppose its probably worth it on deMEter

Still hurts

[cunning urchin]

Then take the -max HP Curse.

[limber cloak]

i once took a -5 per attack curse on a beo speedrun

Needless to say, it didn't remain a speedrun for long

[cunning urchin]

It won't kill you.

Should be fine.

[jovial fulcrum]

frisbee simulator for the next 3 fights, hehexd

[cunning urchin]

No, just keep playing like normal.

It won't kill you when you're at 1 HP.

So that's fine.

[magic rivet]

Just dodge

[cunning urchin]

Exactly.

Or block.

[coral cave]

Just don't get hit lol

[jovial fulcrum]

i block with my face, sorry, so i need that hp

[cunning urchin]

Or lose a DD or two, not like it matters if you're not losing any more after the curse wears off.

[modest ice]

havent talked much here, my apologies

but im doin a 14 heat run!

building up one heat every win

[coral cave]

[modest ice]

usually i go with the aspect of zeus shield and zeus signet

but ive been liking artemis a lot recently so i wanna try and mix n match!

though other than artemis, who else should i use?

like,, what would you say is a very fun boon

[coral cave]

For zeus shield I'd say aphrodite maybe

Or doom could be fun with dire misfortune

Athena would be fun too

[slim lynx]

should talos normally be able to get kinetic launcher?

[patent raven]

What’s the best Special boon for an (attempted) Cluster Rockets build?

Eris rail.

Dionysis? Stacked Ares? Aphrodite for raw power?

Artemis?

Has to be one of these, I would think.

[cunning urchin]

Any % Special. Ideally Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish.

[patent raven]

Thanks!

I’ve never tried Cluster Rockets. I normally use Hestia with Artemis attack with the rail, but this sounds fun.

[cunning urchin]

https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/

[patent raven]

I have got to save the links to these guides.

[cunning urchin]

You can take a look at that. Has everything you could need for damage optimization from the current #1 speedrunner on the leaderboard.

[prime heart]

what's a good lucifer build?

triple beam or flash fire?

[lime jolt]

Deadly flourish

[gray edge]

i assume that damage reductions stack multiplicatively?
so weak + sturdy would be 100 * 0.7 * 0.7 = 49?

oh hold up i also got broken resolve x)
so 100 * 0.7 * 0.55 = 38.5?

[proven osprey]

Yeah

[wide totem]

Hey guys, dose Deflect damage of Divine Flourish scale with power of Divine Flourish?

[hearty elbow]

No, the special/attack percentage damage only affects the direct damage of the special/attack

[wide totem]

thx

[gray edge]

does life affirmation work with the darkness, pitch black house contractor upgrade?

[silver summit]

i believe it does

[gray edge]

thats dope

[silver summit]

though better wait for someone else to answer

i'm not the best source of information lol

[gray edge]

ah i already took it bc even without it seems to be the best of my choices

[silver summit]

yeah it's pretty cool

maybe you'll be the one to confirm if it works with darkness or not :p

[gray edge]

yeah maybe ^^
sadly exams are keeping me from playing another run rn 😛

[proven osprey]

Yes

[gray edge]

👌

[proven osprey]

But it has to be reward as always

(so not on shop/ sunken treasure etc)

[opal vortex]

Best bow to lvl up first?

I just want easy clears lol

[silver summit]

chiron is fairly easy to use i believe

[dusky drum]

Hera is cheap, you don’t need much blood into it

[stark willow]

What do you mean

[silver summit]

Levelling hera only changes bloodstone drop time

so using level 1 hera isn't too bad

especially on stygian soul

[stark willow]

what do you mean by lvl 1 hera

[gray edge]

aspect of hera
once unlocked its lvl 1 you can invest titan blood to level up that aspect

[stark willow]

o i get it

[opal vortex]

Give me a basic starting point for Rama?

Can multiple enemies have the shared suffering status effect?

Also, IS it a status effect that affects "privileged status"?

[raw junco]

Multiple enemies may have it

They all get dmg as well

[dusky drum]

Privileged status is only from god affected curses like weak

[opal vortex]

Figured, thanks

[cunning urchin]

Only the Status Curses in this list. https://hades.gamepedia.com/Status_effects#Status_Curses

[dusky drum]

Yea as many enemies as you can fit can have shared suffering

Hence it’s great cc

[opal vortex]

Ok so if I have zeus on special do the bounces apply shared suffering?

[raw junco]

Arrows bounce by themselves

[dusky drum]

Yep, that’s just the Rama special

[valid dagger]

The arrow bounces not the lightning bounces

[opal vortex]

oh damn

[dusky drum]

Rama special bounces and any enemy hit by the arrows gets shared suffering

[raw junco]

But you will electrocute all of them

[dusky drum]

Yea

[cunning urchin]

The enemy that you attack will itself also take damage from Shared Suffering if it's applied to it.

[opal vortex]

each bounce sparks new zeus effect? I feel like that would be a run-away reaction

[dusky drum]

Zeus does have a cool down for thunder but as long as it’s hit it should work

[cunning urchin]

Thunder Flourish isn't Chain Lightning, anyway.

The cooldown is per enemy, not per Special.

[raw junco]

Isn't the cooldown for the same enemy only?

[jovial fulcrum]

its worth noting that effects like Doom and Jolted deal damage immediately before they wear off, so they get the Priv Stat bonus

[cunning urchin]

A single enemy can't be hit by Thunder Flourish more than once per 0.2 seconds.

[real lake]

does the keepsake of olympians keep giving you doors with them if you don't pick the first one?

[raw junco]

Which is a shame for Chiron's special haha

[opal vortex]

I've wondered this before too

[raw junco]

Yes, they keep appearing

[opal vortex]

Same with fishing... if you don't fish can it show up in the next region instead (mostly important for chaos realm fish)

[raw junco]

No

I mean, if you are referring to the Well boon

Which ensures a fishing spot

[real lake]

neither the chaos gate well boon

[raw junco]

Right

Those are used as soon as the spot appears

[opal vortex]

ok but fishing spots can't appear for at least 5 encounters once you see one usually

but if you don't fish can it appear sooner?

[raw junco]

I don't know if that's how they work

They can keep appearing if you take them, they can keep appearing if you don't

[opal vortex]

Seastorm, Lightning phalanx, Merciful end, Low tolerance. What would you choose on Rama?

[sweet hornet]

in the wiki it says Blizzard Shot is not compatible with Curse of Drowning and Ice Wine - are Curse of Drowning and Ice Wine also incompatible with each other?

[silver summit]

just think about it :P

[sweet hornet]

I guess so

[silver summit]

what cast do you need for ice wine

[lime jolt]

Poseidon cast and dio cast don’t work together

[silver summit]

shush pengy let them figure it out for themselves

[jovial fulcrum]

dio

[opal vortex]

You need dionysus cast for one and poseidon cast for the other

[jovial fulcrum]

oh its a rhetoric question lol. mb, i just got here

[silver summit]

it's okay lol

[sweet hornet]

probably not really worth putting on the chart

[surreal wasp]

i just took the ares demeter duo for a prophecy

it looked bad but... wow i didnt know it was THAT bad

[lime jolt]

Yeah it ducks sucks

[opal vortex]

Do the skulls count as "Foes" during the Hades fight? Asking about the ares boon that gives bonus dmg to attack after slaying foes

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[opal vortex]

Nice

Rama is pretty dang good it seem

seems*

I keep forgetting to use my summon against hades! ufhuidfhasjd

I don't think it has ever made the difference between winning and losing but ya never know

[surreal wasp]

[serene geyser]

Is it just sort of generally agreed that Companion Shady is the best companion?

[gusty rapids]

not really, where did u hear that

[serene geyser]

I mean, it does damage, drops valuable resources and provides valuable healing

[sweet hornet]

updated version of my duo boon chart with some additional info - still haven't found a good way to list the cast boon incompatbilities but the rest of the info should be complete

any help spotting mistakes would be hugely appreciated

https://i.imgur.com/8dqwS5F.png

[opal lodge]

shady is probably the best for maxing out a save for obvious reasons

not really the best for anything else tbh

[gusty rapids]

shady is nice, yes, but there are many other situations where other companions are more useful

[surreal wasp]

i used to take shady for darkness grinding

[serene geyser]

I suppose. I have had a lot of success with Batty, at least before I got Shady

[surreal wasp]

but im starting to tap into 16+ heat and shady doesnt seem to fit anymore

[tired snow]

That zag fist +hermes plume combo got me feeling things

[jovial fulcrum]

Demeter's duos are so... all or nothing.
They're either very good or very bad lol

[tired snow]

Just finished a run with 62% dodge chance it was nuts

[jovial fulcrum]

🥜

[serene geyser]

what is the highest possible dodge chance with Lambent Plume? I know there are 72 chambers from looking out over Tartarus, but I imagine that counts non-combat encounter chambers

[jovial fulcrum]

off of just plume? Not really sure, but you can get well over 100% by stacking multiple sources

[tired snow]

I was not aware it could get to 100%
https://media.tenor.com/images/059e96e984a96f8fc50ed5a632297f18/tenor.gif

[serene geyser]

At that point you might as well just be Impervious, though...? Or are there things that bypass dodge

googles furiously

[surreal wasp]

are crysal clarity and cold embrace incompatible?

[toxic river]

hmm

eternal chamber or concentrated beam?

[lime jolt]

Lol I have one upgrade into shady because as soon as I unlocked companions, I started speedruning, and after that went into high heat

And meg was my first companion

[opal lodge]

both are pretty mid, whats the other option

[toxic river]

too late lol

i went for concentrated beam

[jovial fulcrum]

afaik you're just immortal. I think traps may or may not bypass it, but I've never actually done it myself so idk

[patent raven]

Thanks!

[opal vortex]

One of the easiest clears I've had. I didn't even stop attacking dad when he was doing his omni-beam of death. Just took the dmg and kept wailing. https://imgur.com/SdaDkDA

and forgot to use my companion again...ffs

[tired snow]

I've just started using my companion more and it's been a literal godsend

Wa able to up my heat to like 15 with just that inclusion

Previous best was 5

[jovial fulcrum]

you just gotta get in the habit of using them, and then its pretty natural

[opal vortex]

fo sho

[abstract flower]

Is flurry slash any good? Or should I pick shadow slash (already have breaching slash).

[cunning urchin]

Shadow Slash.

[abstract flower]

too late chose flurry slash

I'll keep that in mind next time

[cunning urchin]

You didn't even wait half a minute.

[abstract flower]

wasn't expecting that quick a reply

[opal lodge]

flurry slash is quite bad

[abstract flower]

hope i can anvil it

BTW how do I get anvil to show up instead of rare hermes boon?

[dusky drum]

i think thats just luck

[slim lynx]

at least if hermes shows up you can get swift strike

to maybe up your already appallingly low dps a bit

[gusty rapids]

yeah its just luck for anvil v hermes

[slim lynx]

you really would think that flurry slash would have high dps

but it's actually so painfully low

[abstract flower]

Is Aphrodite's Aid any good?

[lime jolt]

Mneh

I like it a lot

[abstract flower]

what about under Smoldering Air?

[lime jolt]

It can be good

[opal lodge]

quite good

carried my 50 heat luci

[abstract flower]

did you have SA?

[opal lodge]

yes

[slim lynx]

smouldering air is pog

[turbid needle]

flurry slash is good when combined with the life steal one

[lime jolt]

It’s a meme

[abstract flower]

sweet, got to ditch flurry slash and obtained double nova and cruel thrust

[lime jolt]

Double nova is nice

[abstract flower]

No exit wounds 😦

[cunning urchin]

One of the very best boons in the game.

Oh you mean Smoldering Air + Aphrodite's Aid.

Yeah, that's also an amazing combo.

[opal lodge]

the usage just becomes different

[cunning urchin]

Especially with like rare or epic Call + some poms on it.

[opal lodge]

you save it to dodge large chunks of damage for safety

yee

its quite good

for example

if you do it right before asterius lands with his overhead swing

it wont hit you

[cunning urchin]

If you have Smoldering Air and Aphrodite's Aid, Athena's Aid, Dionysus' Aid, Poseidon's Aid, or Zeus' Aid, you pretty much always want to pom your Call.

You just get so much value out of it.

[jovial fulcrum]

the last few times I had smoldering air i just never got offered a pom on my call

[cunning urchin]

Good thing is that practically all of Lady Aphrodite and Lord Zeus's boons get a lot of value out of poms.

[opal lodge]

athena's aid falls off hard after 1/2 poms now

sadly

all the others i hard second

[cunning urchin]

You still can't go wrong with more invincibility. You can perhaps get more value out of pomming other boons, but more invincibility is always great.

[sweet hornet]

winter harvest vs cold fusion?

leaning towards winter harvest but want to see if there's any counter args

[turbid needle]

What's your build?

[sweet hornet]

zag shield, demeter atk, aphro special, zeus cast, aphro call, no dash yet lul

[turbid needle]

Both are good.

How strong is your Jolted?

[sweet hornet]

hammer is double atk and dashing flight

jolted is not that strong I think, will check when I have a chance next

[turbid needle]

Probably Winter Harvest, then.

[sweet hornet]

it's rare lvl 1

yeah I went with winter harvest

[turbid needle]

If you really tried to focus down on Poms CF would go pretty well.

[sweet hornet]

I might get some more poms, and I might be offered cold fusion again

[sweet hornet]

winter harvest probably saved my run

[barren eagle]

a lot of people say that Divine Dash is the best dash but imo, Tidal Dash is the best if you have a decent build

[coral cave]

divine dash is more defensive, tidal dash is more offensive

at the end of the day its all down to what build you're running

[opal vortex]

eternal chamber or concentrated beam on lucifer?

[cunning urchin]

Divine Dash is also really really good for offense.

[opal vortex]

im guessing concentrated beam is better overall dps

but athena or status effect attack boons seem good for infinite ammo

even zeus attack might be good

[cunning urchin]

No idea tbh. Maybe the third option.

Pretty sure your Special matters more for DPS than your Attack, anyway.

[opal lodge]

yeah third option

[opal vortex]

targetting system?

[opal lodge]

conc beam and eternal chamber are both pretty mediocre/bad

[cunning urchin]

Oh.

[barren eagle]

I usually run aphro/arte on rama attack but now im gonna run poseidon and hope for sea storm

[cunning urchin]

Def Targeting System.

[opal lodge]

yeah targeting system is much better

eternal chamber is frequently a dps loss

[cunning urchin]

If you want Sea Storm, do it with Tempest Flourish instead. You'll get more value out of that.

[barren eagle]

tempest flourish is the special, right?

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[barren eagle]

Well, too late cause I already took poseidon's attack. I might run aphro's attack and sea storm special next run

[opal lodge]

you cant get seeking on luci tho?

[fervent elbow]

can't get seeking on Lucy

[opal lodge]

its still usually a dps loss with zeus and jolted

[cunning urchin]

Support Fire.

Support Fire somewhat matches Lightning Strike in DPS.

[opal vortex]

https://i.imgur.com/8dqwS5F.png this is great. Thanks whoever posted it

[sweet hornet]

👋

[sweet hornet]

halted grasp for +1 cast or addled definance (legendary) for +1 death defiance - I have SD and I'm running hera, so probably gonna go with the cast ammo

[slim lynx]

are you on high heat?

[sweet hornet]

10

I'm doing em3/fo1/td1 for 10 heat

[slim lynx]

that seems like a fairly easy pact for sd

probably just go with the cast

if you already have athena in your pool might as well just go for a divine dd instead anyway

[solid sable]

how 2 get hidden aspects

beat dad?

[slim lynx]

you need titan blood

a bunch of blood

[solid sable]

i unlocked the ones before the hidden

now what

[sweet hornet]

yeah I already have divine dash and aphro cast

[solid sable]

grinded like 50 hours to get to styx

for buying titan

._.

[slim lynx]

there's a guide in the pinned messages at #h1-story-discussion

[solid sable]

mkk

not for fists though

the one for sword and others

[slim lynx]

the guide covers each aspect

[solid sable]

Oh.

I meant the 'Beyond your understanding'

aspect

[sweet hornet]

best way I think is to spend 1 blood each on 5 1-blood aspects, then just wait for the chat

[solid sable]

aight

[cunning urchin]

Always Grasp between those two on Hera.

Unless you need Defiance for the prophecy, of course.

[sweet hornet]

yeah I have 3 cast ammos now, with stygian soul lol

[cunning urchin]

Grasp and Shot are always the #1 pick for Hera.

Unless the Curse is just really bad.

[sweet hornet]

this hera build I currently have is pretty disgusting between all the extra cast ammos, aphro cast, flurry shot and twin shot

[cunning urchin]

Also, for choosing between +1 ammo and Cast damage, just add up your current bonus damage +1 and divide by your current max ammo.

   (current_bonus_dmg + 1) /
   current_max_ammo```

That tells you much bonus damage equals +1 ammo.

When shooting all your ammo, anyway.

[sweet hornet]

shooting ammo takes extra time though

[cunning urchin]

Right. It doesn't factor in things like that. But you'll be able to gauge your max burst damage between the two choices.

[sweet hornet]

does burst damage really matter much?

[cunning urchin]

Hera is all about burst damage. You just want to one-shot everything, so that you can pick up your Casts again immediately.

Max burst damage is mainly important for bosses. You shouldn't make your decision only based on that, but you'll at least have more information to make your decision.

[sweet hornet]

what you say makes sense, thanks

I just hate that, unless I'm playing poseidon sword, I prefer stygian sould so I don't have to wait forever and pick up the cast ammos

playing hera with infernal soul feels weak against bosses

[cunning urchin]

Nowadays in high heat and speedrun meta, Stygian Soul in Cast builds is only used for Trippy Shot or Trippy Flare.

[sweet hornet]

do people just put effort into acquiring the relevent hermes or artemis boons, I forgot which one exactly

actually lol my hera is still lvl 1, I should just put some blood in it

[gusty rapids]

well hera's innate ability lets the cast stones drop quicker

ah yeah that might make it better against bosses

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, I often read "leveling Hera doesn't matter," but it really does when you use Infernal Soul.

[sweet hornet]

makes total sense

[gusty rapids]

its not too relevnt for the majority of the run, but the level of hera really helps in boss fights

[sweet hornet]

leveling hera doesn't matter -> trippy shot only

[slim lynx]

@cunning urchin would you say stygian is good for hunting blades in that case?

[cunning urchin]

For Hera once you have your Cast, you mainly go for either Snow Burst + Ravenous Will, or you go for Mirage Shot.

I'd take Infernal Soul for Hunting Blades for the burst damage.

But tbh I don't really do Hunting Blades, anyway. And it's not a speedrun build, either, so I don't think anyone really tried to optimize that build for DPS.

[slim lynx]

slicing shot doesn't last very long so i can see how infernal would still work

[cunning urchin]

But most of the time, people take Infernal for Slicing Shot.

[slim lynx]

but stygian has bad news, which is a huge damage boost for slicing shot

[cunning urchin]

This is my go-to Cast build. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/824686127491448862/Hades_1818.png

And then just varieties of that.

[slim lynx]

crush shot

why am i not surprised

[cunning urchin]

If I see natural Poseidon or Lady Artemis in Tartarus and no Lady Demeter, I might opt for Mirage Shot in Asphodel instead of Snow Burst + Ravenous Will.

But I think the Frostbitten Horn is still usually the right choice in Asphodel unless you've got both Lady Artemis and Poseidon in Tartarus.

[solid sable]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/793169920908984331/825965098685693952/unknown.png

do i take it

hunter dash is at 90%

[cunning urchin]

No idea what your build is.

Without knowing anything else, probably not.

[solid sable]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/793169920908984331/825965332891435048/unknown.png?width=1207&height=683

[cunning urchin]

Glacial Glare is really good, and you need it for the prophecy.

[solid sable]

don ask why my acorn still lv2

aight

[cunning urchin]

Also as I was just saying, Snow Burst is really good in Cast builds.

[solid sable]

noice

im going for a special build tho

[cunning urchin]

You might wanna lean into a Cast build because you can get either Crystal Clarity or Cold Embrace, which will both buff your Cast damage.

[solid sable]

ah aight

[slim lynx]

snow burst is pretty nice in general

[cunning urchin]

And there isn't much to build for your Special at this point, anyway.

[slim lynx]

it's good damage on top of aoe

[cunning urchin]

So you can focus on buffing your Cast and use that for an extra source of damage.

Like, your Cast at this point can scale way higher than your Special relative to where they're at now. There's more potential in building on that.

For your Special damage, there's only really hammers and Sweet Surrender.

Any pom in your Crystal Beam will add more DPS than any pom in your Heartbreak Flourish.

Also, Frozen Touch, Arctic Blast, and Winter Harvest scale with both your Attack, your Cast, and potentially Snow Burst if you get that.

[boreal prism]

I've never used ME before but i wanna try it with nemesis blade

do i put doom on the attack or special? I'm not sure what the combo is

[cunning urchin]

Curse of Agony > Divine Flourish > ME > Divine Dash. That's the order you want.

Or Divine Dash before ME if ME isn't offered yet, of course.

Or Divine Dash before Flourish if that's not offered.

But Divine Dash doesn't unlock ME, so you want Divine Flourish first for a better shot at ME.

[boreal prism]

ty!!

got CoA, I'll let ya know how it goes

[cunning urchin]

You'll either die mashing Dash-Strike or win mashing Dash-Strike.

[turbid needle]

just bought hades automatic 10/10 i get to pet big dog, but im not sure how to make swords work well in builds

[slim lynx]

dash-striking

[valid dagger]

Depends on what aspect you're trying to play, for Nemesis you want to be dash striking and using your special to keep the buff up, its something like Special>Dash Strike>Dash strike, repeat. You'd be looking for double edge, you could start with Artemis attack then get Aprho Special and aim for Heartrend.
For Poseidon aspect you'd be focusing on your cast, popular ones are crush shot (aphro), True shot (Artemis), Flood shot (poseidon), just requires some getting used to, cast management, when to dislodge etc..
For Arthur you want to try to drag the sword around while keeping the combo, gives you better control of those big swings, fat attack should be enough to see good numbers on Arthur, Artemis Aphro/Athena for Heartrend/Deadly reversal is what I play mostly but a lot of things work, Double Edge, Breaching Slash, Shadow slash are good hammer upgrades, also the Arthur exclusive hammer is nice if nothing better is offered.
I honestly have no experience at all with Zagreus Sword so I cant really give ideas/ advice, Ill leave this for someone else to explain

[boreal prism]

if i have divine dash offered, and not divine flourish but i can reroll, should i reroll

[cloud vault]

Just take the dash

You want rerolls when ME can be offered

[boreal prism]

thx

[cunning urchin]

Yes, actually.

Divine Dash is your settle pick until you have Divine Flourish + ME.

You should at the very least reroll once. If you don't get Divine Flourish or Divine Dash on your first roll, you'd have to roll a second time. Otherwise, you might have to settle for Divine Dash if the first reroll is just that and no Divine Flourish. But it's not ideal.

I'd probably reroll a second time, though.

[honest wing]

in depth meta rolling strats

[boreal prism]

yeah i really havent done the math for this

I'm at champions and I never got offered any other athena boons, so I guess I'll keep your advice for next time

what I've got going on works fine though

[cunning urchin]

You also want to get boons from 4 different gods asap, so that the boons you see are no longer random but always from the 4 gods you already have in your pool.

Not counting Master Chaos and Lord Hermes.

[honest wing]

one time I was doing a gilgamesh run and I got literally every athena boon including her legendary but I didn't have the special only the dash so I was so pissed as to why I wasn't getting ME

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, Dash doesn't unlock ME.

If you have Curse of Agony + Divine Dash, the next time you see any boon at all and it's not Divine Flourish, pick a Cast. Any Cast all.

When you have an Attack, Cast, and Dash, there's an over 90% chance the next boon from Lady Athena will offer Divine Flourish.

Ideally, it's a Cast that doesn't unlock any Duo Boon with Lady Athena or Lord Ares.

[boreal prism]

got trippy shot as my casst

got flourish in styx... I have 5 cubes and 1 ares tunnel

so I guess I can technically have run ME, even if I didn't have it for most of the run

got it!

welp, i won

I'm not used to FO1 so I probably would've lost without ME

ty all

[cunning urchin]

Hurray! Congratulations!

[turbid needle]

i only played for an hour lol ill save ur reply for when i get more experienced tho >_<

[valid dagger]

Spoiled too much stuff >.>

[prime heart]

what's a good Demeter build?

[magic rivet]

Crystal Clarity

[prime heart]

for fists?

[valid dagger]

If you mean Demeter fists, you can do Ares Attack, Athena Special and get Merciful End, Divine dash is somewhat of a must for that build to really shine, its not required to get the actual Duo boon tho. I also play Athena Attack, Artemis Special + Deadly Reversal or Zeus Attack, Aphro Special and aim for Zeus Call and Smoldering Air, you can also do some stuff with Heartrend, there is a lot of nice setups

Oh there is a way more detailed Demeter Fists guide I think I saw yesterday

[cunning urchin]

#h1-builds-and-combat message

This one.

[valid dagger]

Yes

ty

[woven ivy]

tried out chiron sea storm earlier and it was way better than i expected lmao

[glad void]

5th place in any% is a sea storm chiron its p sick

[woven ivy]

oh wow i didnt know that

[strange lark]

sea storm chiron is epic

[woven ivy]

i was doing a farming run so i started with pos and it just naturally happened lmao

[strange lark]

who knew that wet arrows were really good

[woven ivy]

i'll probs use it more since im getting kinda bored of going heart rend every chiron run lmao

[strange lark]

im pretty sure that sea storm has no lightning cooldown

[woven ivy]

wait theres a cooldown?

[strange lark]

yes

[glad void]

Wait is sea storm chiron just zeus chiron just with a damage multiplier and more lightning

[strange lark]

yes

[glad void]

Damn

[limber cloak]

its not as good as heartrend, mind you

but its decent

[strange lark]

i think it is better

[woven ivy]

i mean heart rend is just

damage

[strange lark]

but harder to get

[woven ivy]

big damage

sea storm is more fun imo

[honest wing]

is rush kick a good hammer for demeter fists

or explosive upper

pls help aaaaaaaa

[lime jolt]

The reason the 6:17 chiron is seasorm is because a) splash dash start and you take whatever you get b) lovecrimson is a really good player c) the room lock was freaking insane

[glad void]

Posidon krepsake means u prob get good rarity splash dash too which u dont when going for heart rend ig

[lime jolt]

It’s not better

[strange lark]

ok

[lime jolt]

Artemis scales really well with more % boons and with concentrated and stuff the damage is way better

[tidal scaffold]

If you use chaos shield and have explosive return, does it explode more times?

[honest wing]

no

only when the main shield returns

[tidal scaffold]

man...

how about dread flight?

does it work on each clone?

[strange lark]

no

only the main shield

[tidal scaffold]

Bruh

[spiral bobcat]

Is there a place where the best builds for each aspect are collected?

[strange lark]

i dont think so

i dont know all of the best builds

i know the one for eris

lightning strike and deadly flourish

[turbid needle]

when is a normal time to have a duo boon by? like ares/athena?

[strange lark]

wdym

[turbid needle]

like, should I be getting a duo boon before asphodel or w.e the place is?

[strange lark]

its all rng

when i start a run i make sure to know all the boons that i want

so i usually will get a duo at the beginning of asphodel

[turbid needle]

how do u plan all of that and ensure u get a duo at the start of asphodel? I can't even come close to getting what I want it feels like

havnt even seen a duo boon >.>

[strange lark]

do you have the codex

[turbid needle]

yes

[strange lark]

then check the codex

press b while on a god and look at the boon requirements

duos need certain boons

[turbid needle]

yes I know this

[strange lark]

good

[spiral bobcat]

BTW how do I play gilga (not boons just, how do i use the moveset)

[turbid needle]

but out of all the runs ive done i've yet to get ares/athena combo for doom

[strange lark]

i think i might know the reason you are not getting duos

[strange lark]

get merciful end

[spiral bobcat]

Yees

I said not boons

I know i need ME

[strange lark]

dash strike is the only way to play gilga

thats most of the gilga builds

[spiral bobcat]

I just wanted to know the plastyle

And what about the maim

[strange lark]

useless

[spiral bobcat]

:(

[lime jolt]

the only time I use gilga is for dash only runs

[spiral bobcat]

Raza bow?

[magic rivet]

Main is often not necessary

[strange lark]

i havent found a build that uses maim

[strange lark]

rama

[spiral bobcat]

Sorry

[strange lark]

lmao

aphro or artemis attack

[magic rivet]

Also maim still doesn't work properly on my switch for some reason

[strange lark]

if you go with artemis put aphro on special

heart rend

big chunks

there are also some special builds with rama

dio, ares, zeus, and artemis

[magic rivet]

Aphro on special?

[strange lark]

yes

for heart rend

if you go with artemis attack

[turbid needle]

whats the reason?

[spiral bobcat]

It's just so fun to think of a new build and just play it without taking standard steps

[strange lark]

you are not getting the required boons

[turbid needle]

I am though

[magic rivet]

I don't go for heart rend because it's easier to put Zeus on special to clear out smaller enemies

[strange lark]

are you sure?

[turbid needle]

Yes

[strange lark]

for merciful end what boons do you need

[turbid needle]

curse of agony or pain

divine strike or flourish

[strange lark]

well frick

bad rng i guess

[turbid needle]

what you mean?

[strange lark]

just make sure to check the codex all the time

[spiral bobcat]

What are good builds to get into spear /bow

[strange lark]

flurry jab zeus is great with achilles

[turbid needle]

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying

[strange lark]

he mean main

attack, special, cast, dash, and call

yes

[turbid needle]

so if I need the ares/athene duo then I want to fill the other slots with something random?

lodge in???

[strange lark]

casts that stick to enemies

[turbid needle]

ah

[turbid needle]

okay so after filling those spots I'm getting a ton of duo boons now

but is there a way to influence the ares/athena one?

[rugged whale]

Today I learned that Ares and Posidon's duo boon is nuts and dangerous, as it's hard to see what's happening and who's attacking Zag

[valid dagger]

You can check the requirements for each Duo Boon in your Codex, here is the Athena Ares one, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/821763212742885385/826092673852244028/unknown.png

[turbid needle]

Yes, I know this already.

[valid dagger]

Then the rest is rng, you can use God's Legacy or Rerolls to have a better shot at it

Nectar from Eurydice, Yarn from Wells of Charon, Minibosses, all those will give you increased rarity on pickups aswell

And Chaos Favor

[turbid needle]

is there a super OP build I can do to beat the game one time

i still havnt been able to come close to killing ||my father||

[limber cloak]

there are some amazing builds, but they require skill and luck

merciful end on demeter fists is amazing

heartrend on chiron is good

[turbid needle]

havnt unlocked demeter yet

[limber cloak]

zeus special on zeus shield is good too

[turbid needle]

dont fully understand how to get the currency for it

[limber cloak]

titan blood?

you get it by beating meg

on every weapon

[turbid needle]

ah

[limber cloak]

you can also trade ambrosia for titan blood

ambrosia is what you earn for beating the elysium boss

[lime jolt]

I think eris is the best first win weapon

After I used it, I escaped in two runs

[turbid needle]

what is a build I can use with the default gun?

[lime jolt]

eris is broken

[valid prism]

My first escape was safe: zag shield + ares special

And dread flight hammer

[valid dagger]

Mine was Achilles Triple Jab Flurry Jab

[limber cloak]

zeus attack

with something like poseidon or aphrodite dash

you want static discharge from zeus too (the one that applies jolted)

[turbid needle]

After I get zeus attack, art/aphro special and athena dash what do I go for next? Just managed to grab all of them before reaching aphrodel

[lime jolt]

idk tooth or acorn or something

for survivability

[turbid needle]

no call yet

[lime jolt]

They haven't escaped

acorn is better imo

[turbid needle]

so I dont need any duo boons??

[lime jolt]

i mean for your first escape its not necessary

[tired snow]

Recently tried the ability that gives you a boost in damage after using your call for zeus and boy I dig it with the punchy punch mcfisties.

[rugged whale]

Shield, the aspect of special-just-floats-around, vs. Electo. The shield is trying to catch up with me, but I keep dashing ahead around the spike traps. Electo is running behind, getting hit by the shield and by the traps. Easy kill.

[strange lark]

i play zeus shield differently

i just spam attack and special to get the most out of the shield and attack

its the only shield aspect where you can attack while using your special

[boreal prism]

zeus shield always feels like I'm using it wrong

[strange lark]

wdym

[boreal prism]

like, I feel like I don't deal as much damage as I could be

because I can't juggle the disc enough

[strange lark]

what is your go-to zeus shield build

[boreal prism]

oh, I haven't run it much

[strange lark]

so what build did you use last time you used zeus shield

[boreal prism]

idk

[strange lark]

bruh

i think i know the problem

[boreal prism]

yeah?

[cunning urchin]

Just think of it as a base shield except you can throw out and recall your Special inbetween to also deal damage. But it still plays a lot like base shield.

And you'll get better at throwing and recalling your Special to deal extra damage with practice and experience.

That's how you'll learn to optimize your damage, anyway.

[boreal prism]

hmm that makes sense

[proven osprey]

Zeus shield is really hard to use optimally

If you get explosive return, you can spam your special at melee range, the damage output is quite insane. Otherwise, as Nyaanyaa said, you really really on your attack to deal more damage (dash strikes mostly). A pretty fun combo is special > bullrush > special. You can easily keep control of your special and it's super safe thanks to the bullsrush

[cunning urchin]

Screw Dash-Strikes, just reset for Charged Shot.

[jovial fulcrum]

who knew making the shield into a bow would make it so much better

[honest wing]

LMAO

lmao

[clever barn]

is flurry shot with zag bow ok?

[lime jolt]

yes

especially with twin or triple

[clever barn]

better than perfect shot?

[lime jolt]

Eh depends

First or second hammer?

[clever barn]

first

[lime jolt]

can you perfect shot easily?

Flurry is way more fun

[clever barn]

it is

but i do rama spam quite a lot 😅

so i picked perfect shot

to practice

i'll try flurry next time

ok i suck

[opal lodge]

always parallel to zags shoulders centered on zag or the nearest targetable enemy

[jovial fulcrum]

didnt know about the shoulders thing huh

[orchid pike]

best companion/s?

[jovial fulcrum]

Battie by a lot.
Shady is nice for just memeing around

Antos is actually pretty good too, just doesn't always hit what you want it to hit

[orchid pike]

megan Pog

[silver summit]

shady is good because helth

but you usually don't want helth that much

[jovial fulcrum]

i'd use it for the gold I think, for like

if I was trying to buy titan blood or diamonds

[dusky drum]

mort gang mort gang

3.5k damage

(i say even though i use battie since i run high heat generally)

[jolly sorrel]

anyone have a favorite Gun aspect?

[lime jolt]

Hestia bestia

[silver summit]

anything that isn't zag

[clever barn]

hestia

[proven osprey]

Hestia is the aspects that stands out I'd say

in terms of pure gameplay

[lime jolt]

Its just so boom boom pew pew

And things die

[silver summit]

it has a unique gameplay

[clever barn]

^

[silver summit]

reload, shoot, reload

[proven osprey]

Like it's very different

[silver summit]

i like that a lot better than the other guns tbh

[lime jolt]

Lucifer is really nice

Sangria soaker is my favorite build on Lucifer

[jolly sorrel]

omg sangria soaker?! lmfao

[lime jolt]

I mean it’s what it’s called

[jolly sorrel]

oh lol

i love it

[lime jolt]

Dio attack

Drunken lasers

[jolly sorrel]

oooooooooh ok this makes sense

[lime jolt]

Low tolerance and curse of nausea

[lime jolt]

yeah

[surreal wasp]

how is gilga's +2 dashes balanced against?

eg guan yus damage comes with -HP, or arthurs special ground comes with slow speed

whats gilga downside?

[lime jolt]

its bad

thats its balance

[surreal wasp]

oh

which part

its attack?

[proven osprey]

The dashes are way shorter

[surreal wasp]

o

[lime jolt]

no I was referring to the fact that gilgamesh is just bad

Thats its balance

[surreal wasp]

canyou be more specific sir

im trying it rn and it seems clunky

despite the like 4 dashes

[proven osprey]

The aspect likes Merciful End

My favorite way to play it is going Ruthless Reflex and a damage dash

the 50% damage from ruthless is really good

and the dodge is always nice

[lime jolt]

Oh yeah gigla slaps with dash only runs

[tired snow]

Any build that works well with ol sisy's broken shackle gift? Nice boost to damage and such but only while not having a boon and it seems impossible to avoid boons entirely

[lime jolt]

Its used for boonless/ap2 runs

[tired snow]

What is ap2?

[lime jolt]

approval process 2

[tired snow]

Ahhhhh thanks

[boreal prism]

it crosses out boons whenever you get to pick boons

[surreal wasp]

what hestia builds are good?

[lime jolt]

Deadly/heartbreak strike

tidal dash

[scarlet glen]

Any gods/boons that pair particularly well with the shield

[vale imp]

depends on the aspect

[cunning urchin]

Heartbreak Strike, Tidal Dash, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air.

Deadly Strike, Passion Dash, Heart Rend.

Stuff like that works very well.

Hunter Dash and Divine Dash are also very good.

[jovial fulcrum]

Ya ever feel like you got weaker after taking a hammer

[cunning urchin]

Zag Shield doesn't really care for Special. If I have Zeus' Aid and Static Discharge, I like putting Frost Flourish on my Special if Lady Demeter happens to show up to unlock Cold Fusion, then just keep up one stack of Chill for Cold Fusion, but it's not a high priority. Otherwise, there's nothing really to do with the Special. It's very low damage. Your primary damage will come from your Attack.

Chaos and Zeus build somewhat similarly except you can really make use of your Special with Thunder Flourish, Drunken Flourish, Frost Flourish, or maybe Deadly Flourish or Heartbreak Flourish. Those are the ones that stand out.

[magic rivet]

Wait, Cold Fusion doesn't only work on Chilled enemies

[jovial fulcrum]

Cold Fusion is insanely good

[magic rivet]

Your enemies don't need to be chilled to keep jolted from expiring

[cunning urchin]

Oh right. I forgot.

Shows you how much I actually use boons from her.

I guess then, you just get it to unlock Cold Fusion and then forget about it lol.

[scarlet glen]

Uh, for aspects I only have unupgraded zag and chaos, I'm only really just starting to get new aspects so I don't know which ones are even good

[proven osprey]

Don't worry about that

[opal vortex]

This build was absolutely insane. I have never done EM4, but I feel like I could have easily handled it. https://imgur.com/zU41k3d

[glacial delta]

what does EM4 mean?

[opal vortex]

Extreme Measures 4

Extreme Measures is a Pact of Punishment

[glacial delta]

ahh yeah, EM4 is brutal

I'd rather turn everything else on besides that

haha

[opal vortex]

I only took dmg from dad because I knew I could afford to

[scarlet glen]

@proven osprey What should I worry about then

[cunning urchin]

All the shield aspects are good.

[proven osprey]

Finding an aspect you have fun with

[scarlet glen]

Scary to try to do when blood is limited for now

[proven osprey]

If you want, you can max one, try a run and quit with the give up option

Since the game saves when you exit your room you'll get your blood back

[glacial delta]

@cunning urchin is that fists build idea that you would spam zeus' aid call?

[cunning urchin]

That's part of it, yeah.

[abstract flower]

How do you "reset" a run? I got to my first hammer, and all of the choices are trash.

[cunning urchin]

You just die.

[abstract flower]

aight

is serrated-point a good first hammer?

I feel like it's better as a second hammer after flurry jab.

[cunning urchin]

On Hades Aspect. Otherwise, I don't think so.

You don't want Serrated Point if you have Flurry Jab. That's gonna hurt your DPS.

[abstract flower]

Achilles is my current aspect

what hammers should I try for then?

[cunning urchin]

I guess it can work on Achilles. I haven't played that much with it. Just give it a whirl and decide for yourself.

[lime jolt]

I think it’s good

[cunning urchin]

Anything but spin hammers because they prevent you from getting Flurry Jab later.

lol

[abstract flower]

my first hammer choices this run are extending jab, serrated point, and quick spin.

[cunning urchin]

But Hades Aspect and Guan Yu can't get Flurry Jab, so spin hammers on those can be good.

I'd try out Serrated Point.

[abstract flower]

I personally love serrated point. Just wanted an expert opinion.

[cunning urchin]

Flurry Jab is optimal, but it doesn't mean you can't make other hammers work, anyway.

Well, at high heat and in speedruns, people tend to just reset for Flurry Jab or go full Cast and ignore the Attack for the most part.

But Flurry Jab isn't the only way to play it.

[proven osprey]

You don't want serrated after flurry jab

[cunning urchin]

That's what I said.

Hello, parrot.

[jovial fulcrum]

Serrated is pretty good. Hitting three times is pretty great

just the - dash range

[proven osprey]

Oh yeah you did

But you type too much Nyaanyaa

Can't read everything

[cunning urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-missed-my-problem-part-gif-14076187

[proven osprey]

Anyway serrated point is still good damage on Achilles, it's just not flurry jab

And the trade off hurts

[cunning urchin]

I've stopped taking Serrated Point on Guan Yu if I don't already have extra dashes.

[proven osprey]

Yeah I can understand lol

When you can't double dash strike it's just bad

[cunning urchin]

Not for safety. I think you're hurting your time more than it's helping lol.

Just for the fact getting to enemies takes forever.

[proven osprey]

Hyper sprint helps

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

Not sure it's worth it, though.

[proven osprey]

Not without rush delivery indeed

But it feels super nice

[cunning urchin]

So basically, take it if you have extra dashes or Rush Delivery lol.

[glacial delta]

another question: using the hermes keepsake

do people ever just use that same keepsake for the entire run?

assuming you can get rush delivery

[cunning urchin]

That's typically the idea if you take it.

[glacial delta]

and greater haste to make it even stronger

if you drop it for another keepsake, you lose the bonuses you've earned right?

[gusty rapids]

yes

[cunning urchin]

You don't really take it for Rush Delivery.

You take it to stack Dodge.

Since Dodge stacks additively and can go up all the way 100%.

Try Zag Fists with Ruthless Reflex and Lambent Plume, look for Greater Evasion and Second Wind, ideally with Smoldering Air.

[glacial delta]

ahh okay interesting

why smoldering air

[cunning urchin]

Because it charges your lesser call automatically in 5 seconds.

[glacial delta]

what call would you suggest with smoldering air in a fists dodge build?

[lime jolt]

For more calls

[cunning urchin]

Any Call.

[lime jolt]

Doesn’t really matter tbh

[cunning urchin]

The point is just for Smoldering Air to keep up Second Wind.

[abstract flower]

Is going into Erebus worth it in high heat runs?

[cunning urchin]

Ares' Aid and Artemis' Aid are not good calls for Smoldering Air, but everything else is good.

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, but not typically in Elysium.

And not if you're speedrunning high heat, naturally.

[boreal prism]

dodge can go to 100%???

hmm, and fists are a very natural weapon to run plume with, i think

[cunning urchin]

Yes.

[glacial delta]

well, I am at Hades now, couldn't get smoldering air unfortunately haha

[cunning urchin]

Sounds like it was a good run anyway.

[slim lynx]

at least you almost got it

that's all that matters

speaking of smouldering would you recommend i just go for smouldering if i'm doing thunder flourish on zeus?

[cunning urchin]

Well, hard to get Smoldering Air if you're not using their keepsakes.

[slim lynx]

i can't really work out any other build that would really work

and i'm not sure about sea storm

[cunning urchin]

Sure, that works.

[opal vortex]

Pretty darn strong too, but not as much as the lucifer thing https://imgur.com/s9qzXgv

[boreal prism]

oh wow, 2 effects that continuously deal damage

looks fun

[jovial fulcrum]

Naus Dio Cal is always fun

[scarlet glen]

Should I unlock guan yu or lucifer first

[boreal prism]

depends what you're into i guess

[scarlet glen]

How so

[boreal prism]

guan yu is a challenge, especially before you upgrade it to max level

[scarlet glen]

So probably hold off on it until I can get enough blood to max it out then

[boreal prism]

lucifer has a learning curve, but is totally playable at level 1

[scarlet glen]

I've heard people talk a good bit about both of them, I'm just not super familiar with them tbh

[boreal prism]

I've beaten guan yu runs at level 3... but it's intense, especially in tartarus

[cunning urchin]

I've done Lv.1 Guan Yu. It's fun.

Glass cannon.

[scarlet glen]

Screw it, I unlocked guan yu, any strategy-type things I need to know before I take this thing out for a spin

[boreal prism]

uhh

dont get hit 4head

idk

[scarlet glen]

I mean, any boons that work particularly well with it for example