h1-builds-and-combat

[willow haven]

unsure if he paused

[spiral badge]

That’s my point about all of it

[slim lynx]

what does RTA mean?

[spiral badge]

Real time I would guess

[willow haven]

ye

[spiral badge]

Instead of in game clock

[rare kindle]

real time attack

[spiral badge]

I could even see dedicated break periods

But the clock is the clock. You wouldn’t let a basketball player dribble even a foot down the court without the game clock running. This is the same thing

[jovial fulcrum]

pause in the middle of run, make a sandwich then comeback.
Finish run, submit it as world record.
"Bruh why is the vod for this WR run 30 minutes"

[willow fossil]

🤣

[spiral badge]

Some hades yter videos are like that

[willow fossil]

Yeha that's funny cause you can't edit it

[spiral badge]

15 minute in game time

Hour video

Cause chat has to have their attention every 5s lol

[jovial fulcrum]

lol

[willow fossil]

Hey that's the life of a streamer

Chat makes the streamer

[rare kindle]

Strimmer luck

[willow fossil]

[rare kindle]

Haelian got rip current on a run with approval process 2, when on the previous run he wanted it more and never found it

[willow fossil]

Ap2 be like that

I would know

Im so glad they thought of that option and added it

[desert cypress]

Challenge's at 16 eh?

[willow fossil]

Idk if I wouldve liked the game if it didn't have it

[desert cypress]

Well I better get on it

[spiral badge]

Why must AP2 show the other two boons

Just show me the one you picked for me and let me suffer in silence

Don’t taunt me like that

It’s cruel

[slim lynx]

heart rend shows up
sigil appears over it

[desert cypress]

And that's why you don't choose AP

[rare kindle]

it's why it's a pact of punishment

[spiral badge]

It is legitimately cruel game design

I would actually pick AP a lot more readily if not for that lol

Cause then it’s just party mode

If you only ever see one boon the others never existed

[willow fossil]

As an ap2 user, I wouldn't mind that, not necessary, but I'd be ok with it

[willow haven]

aye since i just goof around a lot, ap2 is perfectly fine for me

[spiral badge]

I keeps me from turning it on honest to God

I weep over my lost boons

[willow fossil]

I can see why

Same reason I cant run tight deadline

[rare kindle]

I run TD2 by default but I'm wary of TD3, even tho I've run sub 20 minute runs before

Tartarus always feels like it takes the longest for me

[spiral badge]

I’m going to force myself onto FO2 and start knocking other things back

[slim lynx]

meanwhile i have to do td3 because of 32 heat

[spiral badge]

I figure you get td3 for free basically at that point

Someone on here inspired me to try that direction

[slim lynx]

fo2 would be a nightmare for me at this point regardless if it "saves me time"

because i also have to deal with hl5 and lc4

[spiral badge]

I will say this

FO2 let’s you get away with knocking a lot of stuff off

Like EM3 and lots of HL and LC

that’s the angle I’m going for. More difficult base enemies, more forgiving damage and bosses

[slim lynx]

it's entirely you do you but i prefer being forced to dodge than getting hit a lot

[spiral badge]

For sure

I shall explore

[tacit canopy]

Why is 32 heat the number people talk about? Is there something special about it?

[spiral badge]

It’s just kind of the baseline heat that’s been established as being enough to be truly Worthy

[jovial fulcrum]

i think that's the last achievement?

[spiral badge]

Not that others are lesser

[tacit canopy]

Oh I see

[spiral badge]

But “high heat” begins at 32

[rare kindle]

I think I've gotten used enough to FO1 that I can start turning on FO2 soon to work on the 32 heat prize

[spiral badge]

And it’s probably tied to this

[rare kindle]

Perfect clear with acorn with FO1 on

[slim lynx]

i can at least manage to get sub 20 runs so i have td3 on but everything else i just force upon myself

can't complain, i literally signed up the pact for this

at least bp2 isn't that bad... except for that time i walked into a room filled with savior speedster numbskulls in tartarus while using excalibur. i just reset the run immediately there was no way i was going to deal with that

[willow fossil]

Nope

No achievement behind hard difficulty

[rare kindle]

there's the skelly prize but it isn't officially an achievement because they didn't want to make it too difficult

[willow fossil]

^

Only the 16 one

[slim lynx]

it certainly wouldn't sit well with people who aren't skilled enough to do 32 heat to have a missing achievement looming over them like that

[willow fossil]

Yeah that was a nice move

Like some other games, there's this achievement on tf2, make a player who you're dominating leave the game 💀💀💀

Thats an achievement for making someone rage quit

[obsidian kite]

That’s hilarious

[slim lynx]

and then there's hollow knight which is like "beat the game 100% without dying once"

[obsidian kite]

I think this might be the first game on Steam that I get all the achievements

[desert cypress]

I only have one achievement left

I'm so close to 100%

[obsidian kite]

I have butterfly and 16 heat left

[willow fossil]

What are you missing

[rare kindle]

I've only 100%ed two games, slay the spire and hades

[desert cypress]

I have max rank keepsakes left to go

[slim lynx]

literally the hollow knight fandom is full of masochists, fireb0rn did a whole ass no-hit run i think

[willow fossil]

Sts, very impressive

[rare kindle]

in terms of achievements I mean

[willow fossil]

Still impressive

I feel killing donu with feast is very hard

So nicely done

[rare kindle]

Yeah, you have to time it just right

Very RNG based

[slim lynx]

hollow knight, shovel knight, the messenger and (soon) hades are the only games i've 100%ed

[willow fossil]

Exactly

[rare kindle]

I think I savescummed for the feed on donu achievement

[willow fossil]

Oh well

[rare kindle]

Because now that I had feed and donu together and I think a runic pyramid too, I wanted to get it

[spiral badge]

TF2 was the GOAT of pitting players against each other on a personal level for its amusement

the whole domination system was genius

[willow fossil]

Lmao yeah

[spiral badge]

i miss tf2's heyday

hell there was an entire playable class dedicated to making people ragequit

how many games even have something like that. a dedicated griefing feature disguised as gameplay

masterful

[willow fossil]

Literally nothing else

Especially nowadays

[obsidian kite]

What was that, spy?

[spiral badge]

its hard to describe tf2 without getting soppy

but it was that well designed

yes, absolutely spy

[jovial fulcrum]

A20 is probably harder than feeding on Donu.
Feeding on Donu just is time consuming

[spiral badge]

and if anyone ever doubts the truth of that statement they never met a good one

[willow fossil]

Feeding on donu on a20

[jovial fulcrum]

:pepehands:

[willow fossil]

The ultimate achievement

[jovial fulcrum]

You haven't lived until you've run a shiv deck up against time eater

[willow fossil]

I Ran a claw deck once against time eater

[slim lynx]

#video-games

[jovial fulcrum]

Twin Fists, aspect of the Defect when

lol

[still vortex]

Wut?

[willow fossil]

Crossover dlc???????

[jovial fulcrum]

memes about a different game, dont worry about it

[willow fossil]

Slay the underworld?!?!?!?!?@??@

[jovial fulcrum]

Slades

[willow fossil]

💀

Ngl, stygious aspect of the ironclad sounds amazing

[slim lynx]

aspect of the knight 😳 👉 👈

[robust anchor]

😳

[willow fossil]

😳

[empty heron]

Yeah so update, going as fast as I possibly could go, I still got 15:47.27 minutes logged on the clock and I'm sitting at ||the door to hades|| with no DDs left. And that's button mashing attack/special/cast as fast as I could, maximizing DPS and not even dodging attacks, pausing at doors, and just blindly attacking anything and everything as fast as humanly possible.

[willow fossil]

Remember, you have to win for it count

[empty heron]

I didn't win.

[willow fossil]

F

[rare kindle]

Merciful end is high DPS and safe (because of Athena dash), go try that

[empty heron]

Oh, I was doing the whole "I just play casually and average 11 minutes with any old build" thing

[willow fossil]

Did you use ap2 for maximum "any build"

[jovial fulcrum]

clutch Fated Persuasion to grab double Kiss of Styx from well

[empty heron]

Basically. I had doom on Demeter fists (lol)

[jovial fulcrum]

only needed one, turned out

I'm on a streak!3 wins in a row.

Only, like, heat 0-1 but we take those

Quick Spin + Massive Spin is noice

[willow fossil]

Of course we take those

[jovial fulcrum]

Nemesis Crest + Chimera jerky were the real clutch pulls from that well, apparently

I've almost got all the titan blood from heat 0. Halfway

[willow fossil]

[empty heron]

If you use the hourglass you can stack a whole bunch of those and melt everything

[jovial fulcrum]

I've thought about it for sure.

I usually just grab whichever ones I see right at the end of Styx

[flat garden]

whats a better special for lucifer

apart from ares which i like

i'm gonna attempt another special only run and submit it to the barrel roll challenge

[slim lynx]

i've heard nice things about athena and arty

[honest wing]

yea arty is good

[flat garden]

whats nice about ares is that doom also does damage and stacks

does art's lucy special give crits in the pulses it does

[opal lodge]

arty is insane

the pulses can crit

but really its just insane damage

its 100 base for lucifer special

rocket bomb is only 80

100 base damage + arty mod + crit is bonkers damage

[flat garden]

what other boons should i aim for

i want to only deal damage through the special and its modifiers

[opal lodge]

doesnt really need a ton of other boons tbh

ah

[slim lynx]

support fire could add some nice extra damage with the hellfire pulses

[opal lodge]

ok

hmm

[flat garden]

yeah support fire sounds good, if it counts the pulses as "hits"

[honest wing]

you could get aphro or dio on the attack

for their duo

which are good

maybe athena on the attack idk how that works tho

[opal lodge]

only deflects at the beam start point

[honest wing]

well that sucks

[flat garden]

nope, the pulses do not count as hits for support fire

[wild galleon]

Mort + Aphro/Arty call deletes bosses like there's no tomorrow. Just get a couple of god gauge boons from Hermes/Arty and then you're truly the prince of the underworld

[flat garden]

aw i got a damage-inflicting boon from aphro

im doing a special-only run with lucifer

dealing damage only through the special and its modifiers

arty special is insane so far

[honest wing]

you should apply weak with your attack

it's still a "special" build but yea

the main damage is coming from your special only

[flat garden]

true, but i want it to only deal damage thru special

like what i did earlier with ares, but purer

[slim lynx]

you're suggesting that they do the one thing they're literally not supposed to do at all

[flat garden]

hahah it's alright, not everyone is like in tune with the convo or whatever

[jovial fulcrum]

can't even, like, passion dash?

[flat garden]

that deals damage right

then no

[jovial fulcrum]

yeah, it does hm

seems tough

[flat garden]

it was fun doing it with ares on special

got it up to lv 16

probably shouldve taken HL5 instead of AP1 though

[willow haven]

how do you unlock aphro's last heart?

final boss with rose or wut?

[flat garden]

||romance all the romancable characters||

[willow haven]

thanks

[slim lynx]

forge a bond with 3 certain characters

[flat garden]

lv1 epic arty hellfire melted through tisiphone jesus

thank you whoever suggested artemis, what a blessing

[obsidian kite]

yeah I love artemis hellfire

with triple bomb I was just about oneshotting everything through Elysium with one volley

[empty heron]

Arti on any rail is pretty great

[flat garden]

ive yet to find triple bomb in any of my special only attempts

which is a shame

[obsidian kite]

oof

[flat garden]

man if only i could get obs working

this run is going really well

probably not my fastest but hey it's only special

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/624746351204237314/806739839319146496/unknown.png

painful

i am in deep, deep pain

[honest wing]

that is very very pain

ap sucks

[flat garden]

i really like flash fire, but it almost never shows up in runs where i actually use the attack

[honest wing]

F

daedulus prolly hates you

[flat garden]

the feeling's mutual

he's the one that built the maze asterius was locked in right

how could he do my boy dirty like that

[honest wing]

he was also icarus' father

the one who made the defective wings

[obsidian kite]

nah that was Icarus' fault

[flat garden]

wow it MELTS through em-less champions

[obsidian kite]

I actually love Lucifer vs EM champions

b/c you can drop bombs on Asterius while he's spinning

also a ton of fun with Hunter's Mark, melts them both at the same time instead of the usual kill one first strat

[flat garden]

im about to get 5-sacked am i

[obsidian kite]

did you get an anvil

could luck into triple bomb

[flat garden]

nope

[obsidian kite]

darn

[flat garden]

and the 16 heat spot got subsumed by someone too 😓

[obsidian kite]

I kinda wanna do a run

but I'm also still salty from losing my 15 streak earlier today

[honest wing]

same now I wanna do another eris run

damn yall getting streaks

[spiral badge]

gotcha

[obsidian kite]

I died with like a tenth of a bar left on EM4 last phase

totally choked

[flat garden]

i cant believe my first ever >10 heat clear with the rail is with a meme run

[obsidian kite]

did you actually get 5 sacked lol

[flat garden]

4 sack

finished it

man that sucked

atop not getting the triple bomb

i didnt even make it to the leaderboard

it really is no different from, say an arthur run

very slow moving attacks but with high damage output

[desert cypress]

....

[flat garden]

i agree

[spiral badge]

Ydluob

[desert cypress]

Yes

[spiral badge]

Which npc has the best conversation in this game Dionysus or bouldy

I can’t pick

[desert cypress]

Bouldy is so expressive

[honest wing]

bouldy best

[desert cypress]

I gotta pick him

[spiral badge]

His words are just so there

[willow fossil]

Bro everytime everyone mentions dionysus dialogue it just takes me back to that meme tweet

[spiral badge]

I mean I’d love to have a beer with Dionysus but bouldy just reaches right down into my soul with every syllable man

[willow fossil]

Bouldy does what oWo

[flat garden]

i really like how sgg wrote achilles

[desert cypress]

Bouldy has such poetic form

[honest wing]

bouldy just has a way with words

[flat garden]

and his guy pal buddy pal definitely-not-lover patty

[spiral badge]

I always thought Patroclus was a punkass from day one when I met him lol

Sulking in paradise moping while his boyfriend has an actual job for the literal god of the dead

[desert cypress]

lol

[spiral badge]

Acting like he’s the aggrieved party in the situation

And that’s not getting into how both of them being there is kind of on Patroclus too lol

Still though, I reunited them for Achilles’ sake

[desert cypress]

Brb gotta redock my switch to my telly cause I'm a dunce

[honest wing]

idk how to finish up the storylines

[obsidian kite]

really if you think about it, it's the narrator's fault

[spiral badge]

Honestly

[honest wing]

do I just keep giving nectar ?

[spiral badge]

Point

I never considered that angle

[obsidian kite]

yeah just keep giving nectar

there are some other conditions

[honest wing]

pog

I can check the wiki for those

[obsidian kite]

but you probably will stumble into them or you can check the wiki

[willow haven]

are there any fun hera builds or is it just ranged beowulf

[spiral badge]

It’s kind of ranged, faster beo

Hera doesn’t add anything extra on top of the bow kit besides that

[obsidian kite]

last time I used Beo I got charged shot, which turned it into ranged Beo lol

[willow haven]

lol

same

it's fun

[spiral badge]

So if you’ve played basic bow you know what you’re walking into

[willow haven]

aye

basic bow is one of my favorites

very chill playstyle

[spiral badge]

Indeed

Heras passive buff is nice

Kinda like having a common tier Hermès boon for free

Which isn’t unwelcome

[willow haven]

is it just me or does the power shot seems to charge faster after dash?

[spiral badge]

It does

That’s part of bow tech in general

[willow haven]

i see

[spiral badge]

Basic bow and Hera especially

[half crater]

it’s dash attack charges faster and does less damage

[spiral badge]

Dash attacking pretty much exclusively will be very good for your DPS

the key is faster power shots

[half crater]

don’t worry about the less damage tho; it’s worth it 100% of the time

[willow haven]

yeah i'm so used to dash powershots that i almost can't land normal powershots lol

[gusty rapids]

ya you should be dash attacking 100% of the time on almost every bow

only exception i can think of is like hera

[spiral badge]

Even Hera

Why not

As long as you’re letting an arrow off

[gusty rapids]

you dont want to powershot on hera unless all your casts are in an enemy already

small shots is best just to get the casts out

[spiral badge]

Oh?

Ah, just for ROF

gotcha

[gusty rapids]

the casts are whats doing the damage, get them out as quickly as possible

if you dont have any casts though, then yeah dash attacks are the norm

[half crater]

you don’t need to powershot on Hera but dash attacking is still very valuable

[spiral badge]

I don’t play much Hera so I’ll recuse myself from the discussion

[half crater]

even if the enemy is close by, faster charge = faster shot = getting your casts out faster

[spiral badge]

Does anyone know what the powershot multiplier is out of curiosity?

[willow haven]

err

[spiral badge]

Or should I go check the wiki

[willow haven]

100%?

i'll go to the wiki for you

it just says 70 (or 50)

[half crater]

it’s not 100%

you get 10 extra base damage

[spiral badge]

Oh, I see

Is that across the board for bows?

[willow haven]

except for rama yeah

[half crater]

dash attack goes from 40 to 50 and a regular attack goes from 60 to 70

idk rama numbers off the top of my head

[spiral badge]

Don’t worry

Just curious

[willow haven]

175 Damage
Dash-Strike: 125 Damage```

[spiral badge]

There it is

[desert cypress]

I have max bond with everybody

If only there was an achievement for that

Seems like there would

[half crater]

isn’t there?

[desert cypress]

Nope

[half crater]

no wait i think there’s one for maxing all the keepsakes

[desert cypress]

Yeah

[half crater]

kinda weird

[desert cypress]

That's the last one I need

Then I'm 100%

[half crater]

nice

[desert cypress]

I guess I could start a new save in Hell Mode

Once I do the final prophecy on this save file, there's not much left

[willow haven]

it's time to make it to the speedrun leaderboards

😄

[desert cypress]

Yeah, good idea

I seem to be good at the game, so I can do it

[livid lava]

Time to do a 50 heat run

[willow haven]

[desert cypress]

50 heat is scary

I did 32 heat today

[willow haven]

@spiral badge fam u submitted a run without mentioning heat

[desert cypress]

I don't plan on going higher soon

[spiral badge]

Yeah I don’t know who to ask about fixing that

It was 16

[desert cypress]

Ungabunga

[willow haven]

@cunning urchin

[spiral badge]

Oh yeah probably her

[flat garden]

im gonna try for 17 later and hope nobody ninjas the spot again lol

[willow haven]

do it for 18

[desert cypress]

I learned I suck at Lucifer today

[spiral badge]

@cunning urchin I goofed

[willow haven]

[flat garden]

yeah this is probably the better option

i will get a special-only lucifer onto the challenge leaderboards

[willow haven]

holy

isn't that suuuper slow

[desert cypress]

I'm bad at all the hidden aspects, except beowulf

I love beowulf

[flat garden]

#h1-victory-boasting message

i did it after i mentioned it as a joke to someone on here

but turns out it was actually pretty fun

[willow haven]

we seem to do that quite a lot

[livid lava]

I run mostly arthur and man it's getting hard now on 20 heat

[desert cypress]

I think you mentioned it as a joke to me yesterday

[spiral badge]

Wait

[flat garden]

yeah it was to you requesting a challenge

[spiral badge]

Hands up

[willow haven]

[flat garden]

🙌

ok now what

[spiral badge]

Has anyone ever mentioned Lucifer seriously?

[willow haven]

uh

[desert cypress]

Probably

[willow haven]

probably

[spiral badge]

Or have they all just been meme builds lol

[desert cypress]

I dunno

[spiral badge]

I mean, it’s perfect if so

[flat garden]

i like lucifer

[desert cypress]

I just like that the laser changes colour

[flat garden]

unironically without the meme build as well

[spiral badge]

M E M E G U N

[honest wing]

lucifer with zeus attack melts

super soaker lucifer is just bad

[flat garden]

it's weak as hell at higher heat imo compared to eris but hey im not running any >30 heat runs

[desert cypress]

My favourite rail is probably Hestia

[honest wing]

I love eris

[spiral badge]

But it is ha-ha bad, you have to give it that

[honest wing]

did a cluster rocket run a while back

it's so good

[willow haven]

welcome to arthritis club

[desert cypress]

I beat boonless with Hestia

I think

Or maybe it was Talentless

I dunno

Either one

[willow haven]

i was doing boonless with fists

[spiral badge]

Every run I clear is talentless

[willow haven]

styx tunnels ruined it

[flat garden]

styx ruined everything

[willow haven]

[livid lava]

cluster rocket + 3 cast + dio fog is a godlike aoe spam

[willow haven]

chiron doesn't work in those tunnels as well!

[flat garden]

if it gave me a 2sack i couldve put it on the laderboards

[flat garden]

i just get tidal dash whenever i use chiron specifically for styx

[willow haven]

OOH

[desert cypress]

2sack is WoohooSack

[willow haven]

i was a when i did chiron run

had no idea it didn't work in tunnels

[livid lava]

for boonless nothing beats arthur with shackle, big damage

[desert cypress]

Chonk

[willow haven]

bonk

[desert cypress]

Bhonk

Extra emphasis on the bonking

[spiral badge]

Bhönk

[willow haven]

lucifer is just a moving crystal beam

[flat garden]

but crappy

[desert cypress]

Haha I don't like crystal beam

[spiral badge]

What if Demeter cast was just tiny zagreuses with lucifers

It might actually be good

[livid lava]

crystal beam is awesome, if only it was easier getting those arty boons

[flat garden]

crystal beam is powerful with bad news and more cast slots

[willow haven]

game hates me

[flat garden]

don't worry it hates all of us

[willow haven]

[desert cypress]

I know it's powerful, I just don't like laser mechanics in Hades

[spiral badge]

Blessed be the crystal beam simps, for the meek shall inherit the earth

[livid lava]

I have been running crystal only runs for days and got all good boons twice or thrice only

[willow haven]

crystal beams is good until you get cold embrace

[rare kindle]

it needs crystal clarity and glacial glare to shine

but if you get mirage shot it's even better

[livid lava]

also if you get slow on beam and then decay crystals just melt bosses

[desert cypress]

"And thus, everyone began to hate me for not liking Crystal Beam."

[willow haven]

cold embrace would've actually been good

if it healed you

[livid lava]

I got a 18 heat win with no duo boon on crystal

[spiral badge]

I’m with you bouldy

Boring cast

[livid lava]

slow as hell but when it hit dad he just melted

[willow haven]

[spiral badge]

Terrible without t2s

Yaaaaaaaaawn

[rare kindle]

cold embrace would be good if they switched it back to love triangle

[desert cypress]

My favourite is actually Trippy Shot

[livid lava]

it's funny when you get like 5 at the same time rotating at very high speeds though

[desert cypress]

It's like a grenade

It's awesome

[livid lava]

trippy shot got me my first wins on all weapons basically

[spiral badge]

It has meme potential I can’t deny. I’ve had those exact runs

But for the most part I sleep on dem cast

It should inflict chill out of the box at the very least

Don’t even call me until it does that

[desert cypress]

Trippy shot is a banger of a cast

[rare kindle]

Glacial glare should enable her t2s

[livid lava]

agreed to both yeah

[rare kindle]

Because now you need to take snow burst or another demeter core to even get the chance

[desert cypress]

My second favourite cast is probably Crush Shot

[willow haven]

what do i go with zeus on lucifer?

[honest wing]

more zeus

[desert cypress]

Crush Shot + Hera is fun as hell

Pun intended

[livid lava]

Yep you need to hold onto keepsakes until styx to get the good demeter arty combinations, leaving poseidon's mirage to and even hermes legendary to a slim chance

[rare kindle]

And it helps if you get extra casts from chaos

[desert cypress]

My Demeter keepsake is still at rank 1, that's how you know that I don't like Demeter

[rare kindle]

stygian, extra chaos casts, bad news, crystal clarity

that's the ideal

[honest wing]

fully loaded

[livid lava]

demeter is kinda strong tho

especially her boon of killing off at 10% which works with bosses

[desert cypress]

True

[flat garden]

wow it does ?

[desert cypress]

That one is good

[livid lava]

yep

[desert cypress]

I tried EM4 today

...

I failed

[livid lava]

EM4 is funny

depending on the build phase 1 is very, very annoying

[desert cypress]

It's a lot different than normal Hades

Papa Hades is usually easy

But EM4 is haaaaaard

Er well, maybe not easy

I might just be used to it

That is all

[livid lava]

EM4 requires you to know very well the patterns and have good reaction time if you didn't get extra dashes, speed and so on

very easy to eat high damage on one of the double swipes

[desert cypress]

EM4 boonless talentless = death

Somebody's gonna do that

And I feel bad

[livid lava]

Is it even possible

[desert cypress]

Yes

[livid lava]

Feels like most damage is unavoidable like that

[desert cypress]

It's possible

You just need to be really good at everything the game has to offer

[livid lava]

forget hades, em3 mino with 1 dash is going to crush you

[desert cypress]

At least you have the shattered shackle to work with, but regular hades is hard enough as it is with it

EM3 is definitely hard

It's part of 32 heat though

For most people anyway

But yeah, having 1 dash sucks

[livid lava]

oh yeah but with boons there are many ways to win that even if some damage is basically unavoidable

I'm kinda sick of mino jsut bouncing of of walls doing a 180 and hitting me anyway

[desert cypress]

Yup

Same

[livid lava]

that should be a bug by the way, makes no sense

[obsidian kite]

you get used to it, like all the other bosses

[desert cypress]

Yeah

[obsidian kite]

as long as you don't have other pacts buffing it

[desert cypress]

When I first started, meg seemed impossible

Haha

How funny

[obsidian kite]

I got demolished my first EM4 attempt mainly b/c I wasn't prepared for double swings

[livid lava]

well when you start it's talentless meg

so it is pretty hard

[desert cypress]

Yeah, I did talentless meg yesterday

[livid lava]

sometimes I die on fresh file meg still if I'm not careful

[desert cypress]

And a full talentless run

[livid lava]

not that I am very good yet tho

[desert cypress]

The reward for completing talentless is rad

Simply because there is one to some degree

[livid lava]

just as I say this I am mid run and he started colliding with the air next to columns, pretty sure that fight is just bugged

[willow fossil]

now i whip her all over

hehe

get it

[desert cypress]

Alright, time to copy haelian and do some funny high ___ runs

[obsidian kite]

high minutes run

[willow fossil]

High calorie run

[desert cypress]

Haha

[livid lava]

trying to beat 20 finally with poseidon sword now

[desert cypress]

That reminds me, I need to gain some weight

[livid lava]

using aphrodite cast with demeter aoe on cast

had also doom on special but had to sell it due to pact

[desert cypress]

Should I start always doing EM4?

[willow fossil]

I cant play without em4

[desert cypress]

It would help me get used to it

[willow fossil]

Feels like cheating

[livid lava]

I would

[desert cypress]

Also the harder fights are more fun

I like pain

As you know

Even though I'm pretty sure I'm one of the least known people here

I think I wanna start streaming Hades on Twitch

And by that I mean I will

[cunning urchin]

@spiral badge I have corrected your submission.

@willow haven thanks for the ping!

[fair cairn]

FO2 HL4 BP EM4, stream it!

[flat garden]

HL5 with LC4

[obsidian kite]

Yeah I started doing EM right from the beginning because I figured I would be doing it eventually, so might as well learn the fights with no other conditions (other than TD1)

[fair cairn]

EM4 is not something "eventually" for most people tbh

[obsidian kite]

When do most people add it?

[fair cairn]

nobody adds it really until 40+

you dont even use it at 32

[flat garden]

EM4 is too much for less than 30 heat for me

[fair cairn]

and most people wont touch 32+ since there is no point other than bragging rights

[obsidian kite]

Well I guess with other boons affecting it it gets a lot harder

[half crater]

people play EM4 all the time on low heat

it’s a fun fight

[flat garden]

unless im running a really low pact but want to train em4

[fair cairn]

like you get literally nothing from 32+

[obsidian kite]

I’m at 11 lol

[fair cairn]

yeah EM4 only 10 heat is fun

[obsidian kite]

I like the fight

[half crater]

but in terms of heat pushing, it’s not really worth it until well above 40

[fair cairn]

maybe throw in some harmless other ones like BP, TD along the way

[obsidian kite]

Maybe I’ll turn it off once I start pushing other stuff

[fair cairn]

but dont use EM4 past 20 lol

it's a torture

[obsidian kite]

But regular Hades was getting boring

[livid lava]

I was doing EM4 for all low heats, fun fight, not as difficult as when you add other pacts

[fair cairn]

yeah EM4 on its own is completely fine

it's just a bit more difficult than EM3

[flat garden]

i usually run with HL5 which makes em4 impossible for me

[fair cairn]

EM4 with any enemy enhancement pact is insanely hard

JS, HL, FO

[flat garden]

oh man i didnt even think about JS increasing the spawns he does

[cunning urchin]

JS has no effect on the fight.

[fair cairn]

yeah no JS

[obsidian kite]

I accidentally had middle management on the first time I ran it lol

[flat garden]

ah, really

[willow fossil]

Normal encounters

[fair cairn]

MM doesnt affect EM4 either

[flat garden]

oh yeah.

thank god

[obsidian kite]

It doesn’t? Sure felt like it

[willow fossil]

Lol no

[half crater]

the adds teleport around and stuff

[fair cairn]

MM only applies to individual mid biome mini bosses

that's the effect of BP

not MM

[half crater]

no it isn’t BP either

[cunning urchin]

BP has no effect on the fight, either.

[half crater]

it’s just EM4

[fair cairn]

yeah iirc EM4 is just EM4

[obsidian kite]

I think I’m gonna turn on FO next

[half crater]

they teleport around, but they do that on EM4 regardless of other pacts

[fair cairn]

yeah I think Hades adds summons are always stronger than their normal elite counter part?

can swear they are a lot tougher to kill

[half crater]

yup

they’re superelite instead of regular elite

you see the same in erebus gates

[honest wing]

game hates me

no bad news

[obsidian kite]

I think my first EM4 clear I had draining cutter and he spawned a doomstone so I just farmed health off the small crystals lol

[honest wing]

no extra casts

no hunting blades

[willow haven]

lucifer with infinite ammo and triple bomb was juicy lol

zeus and support fire

support fire took so long to come

[willow haven]

https://i.imgur.com/BUIxApJ.jpg hi

[honest wing]

F

[willow haven]

ty for the lucifer build fam

got a sub 15 run somehow

[honest wing]

niiice bro

[willow haven]

i don't understand the ramp mechanic tho

[willow fossil]

You hold it down

Damage ramps up

Simple

[willow haven]

uhh

i went with the infinite ammo thingy, would going more fire rate and range thingy increase dps?

[willow fossil]

Infinite ammo removes the ramp up

It says it on the boon

Oop

Your Igneus Eden has ∞ ammo, but its damage no longer ramps.

So it does the minimum dmg always

[flat garden]

yeah

one of my favourite combos on lucy

i can just dash everywhere while pointing my lazer

its hella fun with an epic greatest reflex too

[willow haven]

i see, i went with triple bomb so that was pretty good

[willow fossil]

How would you increase fire rate

[flat garden]

a hammer

[willow fossil]

Flash fire nvm yeah

[flat garden]

one of them

yeah

[willow fossil]

But no ramp up

It will increase your dps yes, but you still don't have the ramp up anymore

I forgot flash fire existed

Was thinking of flurry fire

[flat garden]

how much is the max attack on lucy

after maximum ramp

[willow fossil]

Uhhh

Like a dmg number?

[willow haven]

it says 370 Damage total damage

[willow fossil]

I'm not sure, can try on skelly

[willow haven]

for 20 ammo clip

10 +0.75/tick

[flat garden]

idk how to compare them lol

i value my mobility more than damage when using lucifer attack

must be why im pretty good with my lucifer-special-only runs

[willow haven]

lucifer special is amazing

i think you said arty special so i just went with it and the damage was bonkers

[flat garden]

i melted through meg with deadly flourish on lv 4

yeah yeah yeah

[coarse moss]

with triple bomb its more worth it to spam special than spending a lot of time ramping up laser imo

[livid lava]

lucy with doom on special is pretty damn good

[coarse moss]

so i like to have hangover or something on the laser, to apply on specials downtime

[flat garden]

dio on attack and ares on special with lucy is good to run with PS

i tried ares special-only

#h1-victory-boasting message

it was brutal tbh

i much much prefer it with arty

[coarse moss]

haha nice run

[flat garden]

cheers, but i won't ever do it with ares again

arty's massive damage is much better than the slow doom stacking

[coarse moss]

im not sure if this theory is correct, especially the lucy pulse timing, but...
eris cluster bomb : 60 x 0.7(cluster) x 5(cluster) x 1.75(eris 75%) = 367.5
lucifer triple bomb : 100+20(single pulse) x 3 = 360

about the same power level?

[willow haven]

it did feel like that on doom until i discovered merciful end

then it was just obliteration

[flat garden]

i was talking about my cursed special only run but yes merciful end is very good

[honest wing]

merciful end epic

which is the best merciful end build? gilgamesh?

[devout trellis]

what are some good cast on achilles?

dou cast i mean

[flat garden]

i actually thing ME on lucifer would work great with ares on attack and athena on special. set the hellfire near your enemies and just laser doom them to death

[coarse moss]

enemies destroy the balls so setting it up repeatedly between using laser is a bit clunky

[flat garden]

they do?

huh

i thought contact damage didnt destroy them

[honest wing]

yea lucifer ME doesn't work

[coarse moss]

Curse of Drowning or Hunting Blades are really powerful

[west sleet]

how am i supposed to use hera bow idgi? why load my cast into the shot when i can just cast it itself whats the diff

[coarse moss]

it helps you land casts like dio and aphro

[devout trellis]

curse of drowning, haven't tried that one yet

gonna give it a shot

[coarse moss]

you have to play that cast like a melee weapon, but it's bascially all your bloodstones up 100% of the time

[west sleet]

ohhh so it changes short range casts to long range? thats seems kinda eh~ or am i missing smth

[coarse moss]

i havent used hera much myself. just prefer beowulf for loading casts

[west sleet]

beowulf does the same as hera right? loading casts. loading casts just makes short casts easier to land?

[empty heron]

Instead of having to lob trippy cast, you can load up three trippy casts and laser them directly where you want them immedietly.

[coarse moss]

probably more damage, since hera doesnt increase damage like beo does

[west sleet]

OH riiight TRIPPY CAST.

[empty heron]

It turns [boom, boom, boom] into [BOBOBOOM]

[west sleet]

first time with hera and randomly chose true shot... has been underwhelming

[agile plover]

Is a build revolving around ME the most overpowered in the game consistently?

[west sleet]

whats mE

[agile plover]

Merciful End

[coarse moss]

if you can apply doom quickly, sure

not sure if it's like, same power level as cluster rocket eris or something lol

[empty heron]

I wouldn't say the most OP but it is powerful. Particularly when you get supporting boons and you can 1-2 punch it with fists, for example.

[coarse moss]

rama is OP i suppose. its base damage is extreme, comes with +60% buff, yet it can have double/triple shot

[empty heron]

Top run on Speedrun.com for fastest seeded run in 1.37 is a nemesis heart rend build with arti on dash and attack.

[west sleet]

how am i supposed to deal with the dang crystals in styx that shoot 3 lasers?

[empty heron]

Go behind them and don't stand in the fire

[coarse moss]

they can be interrupted unless they got armor

[west sleet]

when the the dmg tick start?

cos in those small rooms with 3 or more i cant hide behind one without getting hit by 1 or 2 others

[empty heron]

In that case I usually charge them and hit them really fast while dashing in circles around the beams

but it is difficult to avoid

there's no like, easy solution.

[coarse moss]

yeah the solution is have a build that kills them instantly hahah

[west sleet]

right thanks! 😊

usually struggle the most when using the gun or bow

😮

[coarse moss]

i also really hate the big styx rooms. miniboss rooms usually better

[agile plover]

I hard disagree

Standard big styx rooms are so much better

[coral cave]

I hard disagree

[agile plover]

Whoops.

[coral cave]

Boss styx rooms are much better

[flat garden]

they're far easier to clear

[coral cave]

Ye

[flat garden]

and doesnt take a minute to spawn in all the enemies

[coral cave]

It's much easier having to focus on just one or two enemies

And also much quicker

[flat garden]

even when you have god tier room clearing abilities, you still gotta wait 3 waves of enemies

[agile plover]

I tend to lose a ton of hp when it's Tiny Vermin, and the boss Satyr cultist

[livid lava]

I got a lot better against tiny vermin

[flat garden]

no one's done heat 17 on the barrel roll right

i hope i get this done before anyone swoops up to take it

this time i unbounded cast and attack so i dont accidentally press them

er, at least put them suitably far away from my mouse or wasd

[honest wing]

what is the best special hammer you want on fists

while doing dem fists arty special ig

[coarse moss]

explosive upper

straight up +100%

[limber cloak]

demeter

[fair cairn]

merciful end works on all fists aspects

[honest wing]

but like on gilgamesh you can hold dash while attacking and just keep doing it

[limber cloak]

dash attacks on gilga are very very bad

they only do 20 dmg, while the main attack does 60

[honest wing]

whereas for demeter to work you need to hit multiple times with the attack before specialing

[limber cloak]

merciful end is not based on the special

its based on the dash

[honest wing]

right

[limber cloak]

if you dont get the athena dash, your build doesnt really pop off

[honest wing]

yea I forgot

haven't done one in a while

[coarse moss]

gilgamesh ME is buffed by maim so its pretty good. just spam the uppercut

[limber cloak]

since youll need to be specialing a lot if you dont get dash

[limber cloak]

read above lol

[coarse moss]

oh yeah, def want the dash

on top of your maim buffing doom damage, the maim itself is a 100 per second. so if you have athena dash and just spam uppercut, that slaps

you can add the ruthless reflex mirror bonus on top of that

[autumn viper]

yo! havent played sword in a while, you guys have any suggestions for a fun build?

[dense ginkgo]

on zag rail, with only zeus atk, should I take a centaur heart or poseidon?

looking at his boons, knockback is bad for rail right?

[coarse moss]

nemesis aspect, double edge hammer, spam dash strike 😆

[coarse moss]

poseidon dash is a favorite for rail speedrunners

[autumn viper]

poseidon dash is fun

[dense ginkgo]

not speedrunning

[flat garden]

my curse of never getting triple bomb continues

[coarse moss]

speedrun or no, it means its very good

[dense ginkgo]

ok

[flat garden]

poseidon with either crush shot or true shot is very fun

[autumn viper]

well if youve got low max health or get damaged a lot, take the health? really depends on your priorities and how the run is going ig

thanks for the build suggestions btw! sword used to be my fave but ive grown to love hades spear and eris rail too much recently lmao

[flat garden]

i love poseidon sword

if that wasnt clear enough

casts are fun

[dense ginkgo]

is ares special good?

[coral cave]

Damn really I didn't know that

[coral cave]

With zag rail? Eh

[flat garden]

yep. kind of a shock am i right

[coral cave]

There are better choices

[coral cave]

Yeah

Didn't take you for the poseidon sword enjoyer type

[dense ginkgo]

what about curse of vengeance?

[autumn viper]

take aphro or artemis special just for big numbers lmao, rail special is the kind of attack where not a lot survives long enough for doom to hit

[coarse moss]

revenge boons are always good if other options are not

[autumn viper]

^^

[dense ginkgo]

so I have zeus atk and pos dash, on zag rail is it worth it for ares at all? at a shop

what about 2 ares? my next chamber is an ares as well

[autumn viper]

i wouldnt take the ares at the shop, personally

[dense ginkgo]

curse of vengeance is better than reroll ares right?

[coarse moss]

sure, save reroll

[slim lynx]

revenge boons? why not

[autumn viper]

love us some revenge boons

[dense ginkgo]

zag flurry fire or spread fire?

[coarse moss]

spread is nice when you have upgraded ammo capacity. takes getting used to, using it at melee range. flurry is if you dont wanna deal with changing playstyle

[dense ginkgo]

if I am fine with shooting melee distance, is spread better cuz higher dmg?

[slim lynx]

imo spread is better if you happen to enjoy playing fists already because it feels the same dashing around the enemy to quickly empty your clip on them

while also dealing large damage per hit

really chunky hits

[dense ginkgo]

and how does it work?
shotgun but being hit once or 50 times by one shot is the same?

[coarse moss]

some enemies fly on lava and all that, so theres a downside, but spread is powerful

[slim lynx]

it literally turns your shot into a melee attack, not really a burst of projectiles or anything like that

[coarse moss]

the shotgun is not tiny scatter projectiles. its more like an explosion

enemy just clipped it and does full damage

[dense ginkgo]

tfw you restore 2 out of a possible 41 health from a fountain

[slim lynx]

lasting consequences be like

[autumn viper]

lasting consequences scares me

havent tried it before

[slim lynx]

if you can last till elysium patty can hit you up with a touch of styx dark which almost fully heals you when you use sd

[autumn viper]

cool! didnt know that

[dense ginkgo]

I have tidal dash, is a 2nd poseidon worth it?
just before meg or sisters

[slim lynx]

80% restoration, lasts 15 chambers, ignores\ lasting consequences, what's not to like

[dense ginkgo]

at a shop

[coarse moss]

poseidon's rupture is very worth it

[slim lynx]

what boons do you already have

[dense ginkgo]

there is no "rupture" in the journal though

[coarse moss]

razor shoal i think its called

[slim lynx]

very good boon

[dense ginkgo]

spread fire
curse of vengeance
zeus atk lv 3
pos dash

[slim lynx]

poseidon dash might mess with using spread fire

at least it's still effective on bosses

[dense ginkgo]

howso?

oh nvm

cuz knockback

[flat garden]

triple bomb why won't you appear for me

[dense ginkgo]

already have it though spammy

the point is what now

[slim lynx]

i got greater inferno + triple bomb in styx once but i had no special boon

🥲

you can at least try to get razor shoals

[coarse moss]

hang in there poseidon sword enjoyer

[dense ginkgo]

I got common shoals

[slim lynx]

better than nothing

[coarse moss]

those jumping skeletons in asphodel kill themselves with rupture

[dense ginkgo]

so should I take arty keepsake?

[slim lynx]

are you using a cast build?

or do you have slicing shot at least

[dense ginkgo]

no cast

but no special either

and I like using special

[coarse moss]

maybe aphro? opens a good duo with zeus

[slim lynx]

smouldering air is good if you get zeus' aid

goes nicely with billowing strength/second wind

[dense ginkgo]

who gives smouldering air

the question is which god's keepsake do I take

[coral cave]

Zeus/aphro

[dense ginkgo]

I took zeus already

so aphro

[coral cave]

Yep

[dense ginkgo]

my zeus is atk not aid though

still go aphro?

[coarse moss]

sure, its still strong as a special

[coral cave]

Don't take aphro aid with smol air tho

Bad idea

[coarse moss]

poseidon aid is nice too

[dense ginkgo]

I am asking WHAT KEEPSAKE

[slim lynx]

aphro

[coral cave]

Aphro

[coarse moss]

aphro

[slim lynx]

and make sure to get zeus' aid

[dense ginkgo]

hermes or good cook dryad?

[livid lava]

with zeus you basically get zeus aid 100% uptime

it is pretty broken

[coarse moss]

i prefer euridyice and take the "increase rarity of next boon" cuz it helps the duo to appear

[coral cave]

Eury

[autumn viper]

yeah hermes will probably show up again anyway

[dense ginkgo]

Yak was enough convincing since I was sure I had a ! speech bubble from her, and I did

furthered their story

chaos, pos, or aphro (which will happen anyways)?
chaos right?

on chamber 19

[coral cave]

Chaos

Although I always take chaos now because I like fast

[slim lynx]

as someone who has td3 on 32 heat i can vouch for that

[dense ginkgo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/802613885780885566/806819996596174898/unknown.png

which?

[coral cave]

1st

[slim lynx]

definitely not aid

[coarse moss]

yes flourish

[dense ginkgo]

so I got my zeus and aphro, what keepsake now?

[coral cave]

Have you got smoldering air yet

[dense ginkgo]

no

[coral cave]

Maybe keep the aphro keepsake to get the rarity boost

[dense ginkgo]

really?

well, I do have duo chance at max in mirror so sure I guess

can you reroll for duos?
no right?

[coral cave]

You can do that

[dense ginkgo]

but
the lines
does the convo not matter?

[coral cave]

Not really

You can get duos without the convos

[dense ginkgo]

I thought the convo would be necessary

gold or hermes?

[coral cave]

Though duos you haven't gotten have a pretty high chance of convos

Hermes

[dense ginkgo]

the game ensures you get 2 hammers right>

?*

[coral cave]

Ye

[dense ginkgo]

I am at elysium
and it's hammer or heart
because I'm gonna get a hammer I sorta want the heart

[coral cave]

Well it doesn't ensure it but it does try it's best to make sure you have 2

Go for the heart then

[willow haven]

so it begins again

[dense ginkgo]

ended it at 4 hp

now to gain 25

oh and no DDs btw

oh god I hope I get a !

what chamber is theseus

[willow haven]

any good rama builds?

[west sleet]

lmao beowulf + 3 cast + lvl 11 trippy shot was a fun run

[willow haven]

yeeep

[dense ginkgo]

???

[hoary slate]

35 is final shop if you didn't take extra rooms

[dense ginkgo]

extra rooms?

I thought only styx was variable

[slim lynx]

maybe he means chaos and erebus?

[hoary slate]

if you take Chaos or Erebus right before a final shop you use an extra room

[dense ginkgo]

it's impossible for chamber 30 to be the boss though right?

so if I got shop or hammer I should take shop since the game will try to force hammer?

I am in chamber 28 deciding chamber 29

[coral cave]

Probably just take shop

If you dont get it in elysium you'll get it in styx

[hoary slate]

generally there's mid-boss after mid-shop

if hammer is important take it when you can

if time is important take shops

[dense ginkgo]

can styx give it from the pathways?
or does it give it in shops?

[hoary slate]

pathways sometimes

[dense ginkgo]

will the game EVER give a 3rd hammer without using an anvil?

[hoary slate]

nope

[dense ginkgo]

should I buy a rando boon?

[hoary slate]

why not?

[cloud vault]

Definitely

[dense ginkgo]

I am capable of getting smouldering air
I got zeus
I didn't get air
should I reroll for the air?

wait

I don't have an aid

lol it's impossible rn isn't it

[hoary slate]

yes

get the aid

[slim lynx]

yeah, sure

[dense ginkgo]

I never said he offered aid

but zeus is offering aid
do I take aid or jolted?

[slim lynx]

aid

that's the whole reason you want air anyways lol

[hoary slate]

epic jolted would tempt me but aid i'd take

[dense ginkgo]

2nd hammer or poseidon?
I have his dash and shoals and spread fire on zag rail

chamber 29

[coarse moss]

poseidon, duo with zeus

[hoary slate]

^

[slim lynx]

oh yeah sea storm is good

[dense ginkgo]

I don't have any of the pos reqs
that would require another poseidon later

[slim lynx]

then i guess go for the hammer

[hoary slate]

oh right dash isn't a prereq anymore

[dense ginkgo]

lmao dash does knockback imo I think it should fill the req

[slim lynx]

that sucks

[hoary slate]

it was too strong

[coarse moss]

do you have cast? i would choose poseidon and hope get cast. might get duo later

[untold vortex]

yeah, it was pretty nutty to get sea storm without much investment

[slim lynx]

sea storm is kinda underwhelming tbh

[hoary slate]

uhmm how?

[slim lynx]

you just don't feel the oomph

i even did a sea storm build with rail and it was kinda underwhelming

[autumn viper]

i feel like sea storm is the kind of duo that feels good after youve finished a run, but maybe not during

[dense ginkgo]

hermes, or a trial between aphro and zeus?

[hoary slate]

do you hae a hermes?

[autumn viper]

cant get a duo in a trial, right?

[dense ginkgo]

4 dashes

[slim lynx]

it's strong and absolutely worth getting but just feels boring

[dense ginkgo]

+2 that is

so yes

[coarse moss]

if one is already using tidal dash frequently, sea storm makes sense for synergy

[untold vortex]

you cannot get duo's in trial rooms