h1-builds-and-combat

[turbid needle]

It miiight need a little nerfing.

[unkempt pagoda]

every 7.5-10 secs maybe

[kind fiber]

The whole, not being able to fully charge it thing probably isn't much of a downside

[unkempt pagoda]

it's not, especially since most full charges are just longer durations anyways

[main osprey]

and the shorter ones end up still being more effective (like artemis or dem)

[untold vortex]

it's only really a downside for aphro and maybe arti calls

[unkempt pagoda]

even for aphro it's a get out jail free card for any boss

[main osprey]

^

[kind fiber]

Isn't like, artemis's call a singular arrow that does like 200 damage?

[unkempt pagoda]

i think it's 100 at common?

[turbid needle]

Yes, with a 35% crit chance and it backstabs.

[unkempt pagoda]

does scale well though

[turbid needle]

I had to get a very specific build to get it to pop off, but it can.

[brisk cairn]

You get bonus arrows at full charge if I remember right

[turbid needle]

15 arrows at max charge, 3x each individual bar.

[kind fiber]

oh, so its not just a singular arrow

[turbid needle]

But Smoldering Air charges faster than virtually any build effectively can.

[unkempt pagoda]

the real reason not to use artemis aid is that smouldering doesn't satisfyingly cut off the guage

you get a charge and a little extra at 25%

(this is a joke)

[untold vortex]

an extra 0.001% 😛

[turbid needle]

Oh, right, you get charges ever 4 seconds.

[unkempt pagoda]

if anything it's more broke lol

[turbid needle]

Yeah, it crit for 1.3k on a backstab when I tried it.

Just four hundred and change DPS.

[unkempt pagoda]

on athena aid you get safe hits in every 5 seconds

[untold vortex]

smoldering air + second wind for even more cheese on top of your cheese

[unkempt pagoda]

for fun we'll add in billowing strength too

[turbid needle]

I have that right now with Dio's Aid!

[untold vortex]

add in clouded judgement for good measure as well

[lament coral]

honestly, any call chargers on top of Air are excessive

[unkempt pagoda]

quick favor too!

[cunning urchin]

@turbid needle my priority for 40+ builds is always Lady Aphrodite > Lady Athena > Lord Zeus. So . . . probably top 4, yeah.

[lament coral]

why Zeus? Surely it's not just for the duo.

[cunning urchin]

It's just for the Duo.

[turbid needle]

Smoldering Air turns any situational Call into an anytime nuke button.

[cunning urchin]

I already have Heartbreak Strike or Heartbreak Flourish, so the potential is just to good to pass on the chance.

[turbid needle]

For something like Dionysus's Aid, it's a super powerful Hangover stack on literally any build without any synergy requirements.

[lament coral]

so I guess Artemis call is the only loser in the Air contest?

[turbid needle]

Nope, with the right build even it's very strong.

It charges a bar every 4 seconds, it's got a very good crit chance at 35%, and it backstabs.

[lament coral]

does it?

does Support Fire also backstab?

[turbid needle]

I don't know about Support Fire.

[cunning urchin]

Well, ideally it's just Heartbreak Strike/Flourish > Divine Dash > Zeus' Aid for minimal setup to get Smoldering Air.

[turbid needle]

Did that with this Nemesis run, nuked Zeus's Aid after I'd picked up SA and Trippy Shot, then grabbed Dio's Aid in Asphodel and Black Out in Elysium.

[cunning urchin]

I've often sold Artemis' Aid either way to make room for another, but it depends on a lot of things.

Eventually, the higher you go up, the less room you have to force a build. It just becomes take the Attack or Flourish you want and save all rerolls hoping to get Divine Dash, Greatest Reflex, or both.

[frank tide]

why are aphro's attacks considered good?

[unkempt pagoda]

biggest damage modifiers

[turbid needle]

Big damage and Weak is great.

[unkempt pagoda]

amazing defensive effect

heart rend

[frank tide]

weak is way less powerful than something like the slow

take a bit less damage vs. attacks being so telegraphed you can walk out of the way

[lament coral]

Aphro offers the best percentage scaling which is great on weapons that have decent base damage

Zeus, for example, is great on fast and low damage weapons, such as rail's attack

[unkempt pagoda]

good duos in smouldering air and heart rend

[cunning urchin]

Weak imo is by far the best curse in the game.

[unkempt pagoda]

unhealthy fixation is broke on fast weapons

[lament coral]

and Ares is kind of in the middle, providing you high but delayed fixed damage

[cunning urchin]

You need to apply multiple stacks of Chill for any noticeable effect.

I'd rather enemies are dead after so many hits.

[frank tide]

well my favorite weapon by a pretty long shot is the fists

[cunning urchin]

Starting with the Eternal Rose will also guarantee that Life Affirmation is in the boon pool for the run.

[lament coral]

is there a particular reason as to why you like em better than, say, the shield?

[frank tide]

mostly the base attack speed with zag fists

also the antiarmor hammer

as for shield I like the chaos shield but whenever I run it I get like no boons for the special

[kind fiber]

Does the Dion - Ares legendary also reduce the duration of hung over? Or does it also increase the amount of times it ticks?

[unkempt pagoda]

only makes the damage tick faster, the actual hangover effect lasts the same amount of time

[kind fiber]

So it will tick additional times over the same duration?

[turbid needle]

Yes.

[kind fiber]

cool

how does the lucifer dash attack work?

I notice that you don't have to re-prime the weapon if you dash while firing. Does it do anything else?

[unkempt pagoda]

it doesn't, there isn't one

[lament coral]

I'm not sure it has a dash attack. Maybe a faster buildup?

[unkempt pagoda]

the attack still fires while dashing, though

[kind fiber]

I assume it still triggers the dash attack damage bonus though

[lament coral]

how does that work with Artemis dash then, or Chaos?

[unkempt pagoda]

hunter dash isn't offered

[lament coral]

wow, for real?

so no Chaos dash either then?

[kind fiber]

Oh?

okay then

[unkempt pagoda]

i assume not

[kind fiber]

I notice now that it doesn't actually seem to have much of a wind up

Its just the whole damage build up thing

[dry jay]

hey guys

have a quick question as im in the middle of a run

[cunning urchin]

Can girls answer, too, or only guys?

[unkempt pagoda]

[dry jay]

using the hidden aspect of the rail and my first boon was zeus chain lightning attack

[unkempt pagoda]

nice

[dry jay]

(anyone can answer but an aerith fan can take priority tbh)

[cunning urchin]

Sounds like your build is complete.

[unkempt pagoda]

[dry jay]

just got a hammer and am wondering what to take. doubletime damage ramp, infinite cells but no ramp or targetting system

[unkempt pagoda]

infinite imo

[cunning urchin]

Haven't done the math on that, I'm afraid.

[dry jay]

i was thinking that but double ramp made me think twice and then i realized target system has +30% damage and target moves slower

[unkempt pagoda]

if you're going for splitting bolt, you want the constant damage source

[dry jay]

gotcha!

oh, next room is demeter AND artemis! lets hope for homing arrows on art LOL

[cunning urchin]

You need a core boon from her for Support Fire.

Or Pressure Points.

Well, basically any t1 boon.

[dry jay]

wait, pressure points can give it? shooooot

i restarted this run eearlier because i thought, oh yeah i can dodge charon easy enough

had pressure points and chain lightning that run

rerolled pressure points this time and only got the crits mark nearby enemies LOL

[unkempt pagoda]

time to restart again

[dry jay]

.....restarted

[unkempt pagoda]

me, reloading eurydice's room and knocking down her pillars over and over

[dry jay]

wait..... pillars? >.>

[untold vortex]

best way to get support fire is through hunter dash, as boons like pressure points also open up the crit related boons

[dry jay]

guess thats something i gota do

[unkempt pagoda]

destroying the pillars in the room changes the rng, so you could potentially get different boons for her rewards

and the game doesn't make you give up after taking her reward so

[dry jay]

WHAT

all this time ive been so mad about her making my dash rarer and i couldve just reloaded?

[unkempt pagoda]

it's a neat speedrunning trick i picked up

[dry jay]

no wonder im on heat 5, i need these pro strats

im gonna post in the self promo at bottom so if anyone wants to help me in real time, you can LOL

[cunning urchin]

Hunter Dash isn't an option on rail 4, though.

Will it help you if I tell you that top player strategy for 5 heat is meme runs for fun and amusement?

i need these pro strats

I helped! dramatically disappears into the night

[unkempt pagoda]

learned that thunder flourish detonates lucifer's bombs, so it really isn't worth it

if you wanted an eternal lightning generator, anyways

[clear dome]

is ares lucifer viable/

[unkempt pagoda]

yes

haven't personally gotten it myself, but i've heard very good reports

[clear dome]

i mean ares attack, not special

[stoic thicket]

It should be the best weapon for Dire Misfortune shenanigans, don't know exactly how well it holds up though.

[clear dome]

if i ever get that boon it may actually viable, as it is now i cant get one

[stoic thicket]

Just did a low heat run and with Dire Misfortune it chonks fairly significantly.

Could get 700+ damage doom hits fairly reliably, with pressure points even >2000 damage crits.

[clear dome]

bruh seeking fire does not work with Hestia

[unkempt pagoda]

at least ricochet does

[clear dome]

homing doesnt work with ricochet :C

can the Hestia shot crit with artie?

[cunning urchin]

Yeah.

[clear dome]

yea nvm its just so rare

[cunning urchin]

Deadly Strike and Heartbreak Strike are the tried-and-true for Hestia.

You can get Hunter Dash for better crit damage and damage overall or Divine Dash for some safety and better crit chance.

But even if the crit chance on Deadly Strike is relatively low, the average damage thanks to crits is really high.

[clear dome]

hestia vs green lernie = insta lose

or im just spicy

[cunning urchin]

I don't agree. I think Hestia shreds any boss and any Lernie version.

[clear dome]

try to shoot the lernie with 3 bloodless after you

[cunning urchin]

You've got to make the spawn eggs a priority vs Green Lernie.

It's probably the most difficult Lernie version to figure out. But it's not actually the most difficult once you get the hang of it.

Damage Control can really screw you over in that fight, though.

[clear dome]

im on 8 heat rail and still havent beat heat 1

[cunning urchin]

Unfortunately, I don't have a Hestia save at Green Lernie, so I can't show you the fight. But that's basically what you gotta do: kill the spawn eggs immediately before they can even hatch, and avoid Damage Control with Hestia.

[granite mirage]

Hey guys! Can somebody tell me a fun chaos shield build, please?

[lament coral]

Chaos shield as in the shield or Chaos shield as in Aspect of Chaos?

[granite mirage]

aspect

[cunning urchin]

Tempest Flourish should be a lot of fun.

[stoic thicket]

I've been partial to Dionysus special on the Chaos shield, it's one of the best distributers of Hangover.

[cunning urchin]

Maybe with Heartbreak Strike and Zeus' Aid, so you have a chance of getting Sea Storm, Sweet Nectar, and Smoldering Air.

[lament coral]

Athena attack/Ares special, Aphrodite/Dio, Anything/Zeus

these have been my go to combos

[cunning urchin]

Those are the meta builds for Chaos Aspect.

[lament coral]

avoid special charge hammer

well, they're fun

[cunning urchin]

Tempest Flourish is not meta but will just slam everything around.

[lament coral]

you're welcome to Poseidon on everything and spend an hour playing pinball, that's not enjoyable for me

[cunning urchin]

Not saying they can't be fun, just providing some context.

[granite mirage]

thank you guys!

[cunning urchin]

and girl*

[granite mirage]

and a girl)

[cunning urchin]

[granite mirage]

It's my first run with maxed out chaos aspect and it's looking very promising

[cunning urchin]

What did you end up going for?

[granite mirage]

Tempest Flourish

[static jacinth]

Hunter's Mark doesn't apply to bosses, right? Like if it's just the one boss.

[lament coral]

Correct

it does work if there are other units around, like in Furies/Hydra/Heroes/Hades fights

[leaden hare]

Been a while bc I'm learning JS from online courses and I see the new duo boon chart, it's a lot better than the first version I have created

now I can go back and play some more high heat runs

[empty robin]

Do I have to fight Charon if I'm doing the weekly challenge?

Because there's also a room with Obols and I don't know what I'm supposed to do

[cunning urchin]

No, you don't have to. The money might help, but it's a really difficult fight.

Well.

[empty robin]

I really want to fight him tho

[cunning urchin]

@eternal quartz and @turbid needle made the rules.

[empty robin]

Especially with FO off

[cunning urchin]

Er.

@sterile portal

[empty robin]

Should I go for it

[cunning urchin]

Phone tagged the wrong person lol.

I think they're both around, so maybe wait a moment for them to decide.

[eternal quartz]

@empty robin you can fight Charon if you want to :) Charon's chamber has priority over Obol chamber

Oh, ok, so you have Obol Chamber while you're in Charons Chamber? You can fight him I'd say

[lament coral]

you're getting paid either way!

[pseudo lark]

Does the dash have more i-frames than the Call?

[empty robin]

@eternal quartz Thank you for the reply. My screen just turn black and I had to quit the game based on the sound of the UI. Just restarted the PC, let's me see if the save's still there

[turbid needle]

Hold up, what rules did I make? Or was that the mistype.

[cunning urchin]

Yeah, that was the mistype lol.

@empty robin the save file is definitely still there.
...\Documents\Saved Games\Hades

Profile1_Temp.sav

Or whichever profile you played on.

[empty robin]

Yeah don't worry I just finished the run

[cunning urchin]

Alright. Cool.

[empty robin]

Also congrats on your world record run

[cunning urchin]

Thank you! 💗

[gaunt elk]

hey, do you have any recommendation on spending titan's blood ? i kinda regret some of the spending i did already, and by the look of it, gathering more than the 15 i have will be super long

[frank tide]

some heat/weapon combinations are basically a trivial difficulty increase at low levels but still let you get more blood

[static jacinth]

Can someone help me understand how to use Aspect of Guan Yu? I get that the healing is nice, but having 50% hp makes mistakes a lot more punishing. And it's not too much stronger I feel, otherwise? Having hit points woudl be nice.

[eternal quartz]

Try using it with Athena Boons. Deflect work really well with Guan Yu. One of the ways to play with it is to spam the spin attack to keep your health at max, which requires good positioning and timing. But then you can take down groups of enemies more easily. Hammer upgrades making the spin charger faster and spin radius bigger are also useful

[cunning urchin]

The go-to strategies for Guan Yu are Divine Strike and spamming the spin (hoping for Quick Spin!) or Heartbreak Flourish/Deadly Flourish and spamming the Special—ideally with Charged Skewer.

Heartbreak Flourish is great because it mitigates a lot of damage with Weak, and using the Eternal Rose in Tartarus makes sure you can potentially get Life Affirmation during your run, which helps a lot with getting more HP.

And Divine Strike is also just really safe and lets you heal a lot.

Deadly Flourish just does a ton of damage (although Heartbreak Flourish is close behind).

[turbid needle]

aoe crit is also hilarious

since it means hunter's mark can be chain-triggered

[static jacinth]

Yeah, though I can just do that with regular spear as well.

The regular spear special is pretty good.

[turbid needle]

yes, but GY special is a true AOE

[cunning urchin]

@gaunt elk which base weapon do you like and have success with?

[static jacinth]

I can see the logic. And the spin attack does do a lot of damage.

Just 50% hp feels like a very steep price to pay for it.

[cunning urchin]

You also don't need to recall Guan Yu's special. So you can just spam it.

[static jacinth]

It feels like I'm trading safety for different safety with the lifesteal.

[turbid needle]

risk and reward and all that

yup

that's the best thing about GY special

[static jacinth]

It returning can be nice though. Applies zeus lightning again, gets backstab damage.

Stuff like that.

[turbid needle]

yes, but you can just aoe twice within that time

[cunning urchin]

It forces you to play very different than you would normally with the spear.

[turbid needle]

and aoe also applies zeus lightening

[static jacinth]

Yeah, it does.

[turbid needle]

i think you simply need to try it

[static jacinth]

I guess I'm just not good at that playstyle yet.

I did! I got the win on my second try at my max heat with it. But I just felt sort of inept.

[cunning urchin]

Unless you spam special, in which case it's similar but higher risk, higher reward.

[static jacinth]

How about Aspect of Arthur?

That just seems really slow.

[turbid needle]

Arthur

hits

like

[static jacinth]

The third swing -hurts-, but it also hurts to use.

[turbid needle]

a

[lapis pilot]

arthur seems OP

[turbid needle]

TRUCK

[static jacinth]

Though maybe my mistake was bothering Chiron in that run.

[lapis pilot]

swing is slow but base dmg on third hit is. what, 200?

[turbid needle]

yes

[static jacinth]

Yeah, it hit hard.

[cunning urchin]

You can dash between the strikes of the 3-hit combo with Stygius.

[turbid needle]

if you master the dash combo

it's great

[cunning urchin]

That also applies to Excalibur, and it helps a lot.

[lapis pilot]

it's stupid powerful and the aura upgrade basically makes any boss a breeze

[turbid needle]

yupyup

[static jacinth]

Probably will just take more practice.

And maybe a few more levels in it to boost that aura.

I really enjoyed Aspect of Rama though.

[lapis pilot]

(aura = special)

[static jacinth]

The bow just clicks for me with all the variants I've tried.

[lapis pilot]

i too thought the same "wtf is this slow weapon" and then i hit elysium and was "huh this is easy"

one of the biggest beefs i have with the game right now are elysium mobs and Arthur makes them a non issue

[static jacinth]

Sharanga is also really slow. And hits like a truck. I guess having range helps make that work for me.

[cunning urchin]

@static jacinth you could check out this 46-heat clear from @weak moat with Excalibur. That should help give you some ideas for how to make it work effectively. https://youtu.be/UKRi-f2rwSQ

[static jacinth]

That'll probably help!

Thanks.

[cunning urchin]

I always like to watch top players when I struggle with a weapon.

[static jacinth]

It worries me that even they're getting hit because it's so slow.

[cunning urchin]

But you have +50 HP and a lot of damage reduction!

[static jacinth]

This is true.

I'll be giving it another try either way. I want to be good with all the weapons.

I really enjoyed doing Poseidon Aspect with the sword though. Pew pew magic build.

[spark mulch]

I just had my first successful crush shot run, and I have to say I like it a lot mroe now with the additional boon upgrade

[zenith jay]

Yo i need help fast

Does aphro cast dislodges?

Does it get stuck on enemies?

I dont know if I should take exit wounds with her cast

[spark mulch]

Im pretty sure it does, if you dont have regenerating stones

does get stuck and then dislodge

[zenith jay]

Yea I have 3/3

Ok i will take it then

[static jacinth]

It does get stuck and dislodge.

[zenith jay]

Ty

[static jacinth]

I think that regenerating stones still count for Exit Wounds too? I'm not sure on that one.

If they don't, Regenerating stones is really getting the short end of the stick.

[spark mulch]

I asked yesterday and the consensus seemed to be no

[static jacinth]

Oh boo.

[zenith jay]

Yea It does dislodge, owning the furies

Got demeter aspect rush kick and artemis special

Chuck norris kicks

[static jacinth]

Question. When does the dash attack count as an Attack and when doesn't it? It seems almost random.

[cunning urchin]

With Stygius?

Or for hammers and stuff?

[static jacinth]

Well just in general. Like, do attack buffs count for your dash attack? Do attack procs?

It seems like Dash attacks usually aren't attacks. Like with Cursed Blade and stuff.

[cunning urchin]

If you do Attack > dash > Attack with Stygius, it will be a continuation of your 3-hit combo and not count as a Dash-Strike.

Oh, I see.

Dash-Strikes count as Attacks for boons.

But for hammers, it has to say specifically "Dash-Strike".

[static jacinth]

Hmm, got it.

[spark mulch]

So what sort of dashes don’t count?

Is it just explicit boon dashes?

[cunning urchin]

I'm confused at the question lol sorry.

If you do a Dash-Strike, it gets the benefits from Hunter Dash and any "Lunge" boons, and it gets the benefits from all of your "Strike" boons.

[green plover]

When does the dash attack count as an Attack and when doesn't it? It seems almost random.
I think boons applied to Attack apply to dash-strike but the inverse is not true.

[cunning urchin]

It also gets the benefits from any "Dash-Strike" hammer upgrades you have.

[static jacinth]

I was was asking mostly because I felt like with Nemesis I was never getting crits on my dash strikes.

[weary gust]

can you get rocket bomb hammer mod with hestia aspect

[green plover]

Yes.

[weary gust]

alright, ty

[static jacinth]

If I'm using Aspect of Arthur, does Hunter Dash help with the three hit combo?

I guess that's a question for all Stygius times really.

[broken berry]

Nah I think it only buffs the first swing/dash attack

[cunning urchin]

No, those aren't counted as Dash-Strikes.

They're just your regular 3-hit combo.

[static jacinth]

Thought so.

I want to try and get the Artemis Attack boon.

And just get collosal swings.

This is probably not the best option. But it's the fun option. I'd guess Aphrodite's attack is probably wisest.

[cunning urchin]

I just used the Special with Nemesis, did one Dash-Strike, and immediately got a critical hit.

On Skelly.

So it's not bugged or anything.

[static jacinth]

Maybe I was incredibly unlucky while testing it.

I do only have the rank 1 Nemesis.

[cunning urchin]

Oh yeah. Crit chance goes up a lot with levels.

[spark mulch]

Is Nemesis the most loved sword?

[odd seal]

Arthur is great

Nemesis is my second fav

also, Is it possible to get curse of downing with beowulf? I would expect it to be disabled

[serene phoenix]

I like default sword

Gotta go fast

[clever steppe]

how do i unlock the aspect of rama for bow?

[dry ember]

please check the pin in #h1-story-discussion channel

instructions are there

[stuck elbow]

You need to beat the elite 4 10 times with only Pikachu in your party

[dry ember]

no potions allowed either

I have a question for ya

in term of DPS, which one of these are the best?

1. Ice Wine Trippy Shot
2. Scintillating Feast Trippy Shot
3. Lightning Phalanx Phalanx Shot
4. Blizzard Shot Flood Shot
5. Hunting Blade Slicing Shot

[cunning urchin]

Hunting Blades and Vicious Cycle probably.

[stuck elbow]

Tbh I’m partial to Hunting Blades. But blizzard shot is also pretty good

Much better than I thought initially

[cunning urchin]

Blizzard Shot was easily the #1 in Nighty Night.

[dry ember]

assuming that's all you have though

[cunning urchin]

I haven't actually used it this patch yet.

[dry ember]

so no legendary

[cunning urchin]

I still wanna say probably Blizzard Shot?

But not if you miss a lot of shots.

[spark mulch]

is Eurydice impacted by the Aphro-Poseidon duo?

[broken berry]

I don't think you can increase the level/rarity of duo boons if that's what you're asking

[spark mulch]

no Im asking if the double Pom uprgrade impacts Pom Porride

its a longshot, but would be cool

[broken berry]

Ohhh

I'm not sure about that. I've only gotten Sweet Nectar in Elysium and Styx

[cunning urchin]

It doesn't affect it.

[main osprey]

Yes it does

I've done it

@spark mulch

[cunning urchin]

I feel like I've tried it before, and it didn't. But I'll take your word on it if you're sure about it.

[main osprey]

Very sure xD it's part of how I got such high level boons for my perma-charm build

[spark mulch]

wow thats unreal, I need a run like that

[main osprey]

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/732390386760286268

For reference

[spark mulch]

21% damage reduction for that many poms feels a little underwhelming!

wow thats a really cool run

hipom AphroAid and Smouldering? sheesh

15 second charm is longer than the Smouldering Air change up time, right?

[cunning urchin]

Yep.

[main osprey]

Doesn't last that long against bosses, of course, but still

I actually also had a bug that run that gave me +4 from a Miniboss Pom xD

That was just the one in Styx though

[versed halo]

Do you guys play on controller or mouse/kb?

[main osprey]

I use M&K

[cunning urchin]

Pad.

[broken berry]

KBM for me as well

[eternal quartz]

Time to pay the Blood Price is over! Congratulations to all the Debt Payers, hope you had fun! Here's the Hall of Fame: https://www.hades-fansite.com/hades-weekly-challenges/HWC06

Now it's time for Hades Weekly Challenge #7 - Get Rich (Fast) Or Die (Fast) Trying
https://www.hades-fansite.com/hades-weekly-challenges/HWC07

Zagreus, pondering how to refill his recently emptied coffers, is met with a sudden gust of air as a message from Hermes flies by: 'Hey Cos, I heard my professional associate ended up getting to those coins of yours! Believe it or not, I have a bit of a side business down here, you know, bets and what-not, and I'd be mighty keen if you could help me out with some of it! You'll even make a good bit of coin on the side. Now go, go!'

Conditions:

• Got at least 2000 gold at the victory screen
• Lambent Plume keepsake equipped all the time
• Always choose Hermes as a chamber reward

Heat:

• Forced Overtime Max
• Tight Deadline max

Challenge brought to you by the HWC Committee (Tiank, @sterile portal, @unkempt geyser )
Special thanks to @void fjord for the idea; we modified it a bit as you can see ;)

Good luck and have fun!

https://i.imgur.com/LtRYAoi.png

[random hull]

Wow. FO and TD maxed out. That challenge shapes up to be a blur.

[cunning urchin]

TD2 is gonna be very difficult for a lot of players.

[void fjord]

Thanks @eternal quartz for looking at my idea. Cant wait to beat it. Modification made it better ngl

[random hull]

I like the U-turn from "Buy all of the things" to basically "Buy none of the things". Except Price of Midas, I guess.

[cunning urchin]

Bonus points if you do all this on 52 Heat.

[random hull]

I'll pass on that.

[sterile portal]

You can still buy things! Just be wary

[unkempt pagoda]

• Stygian Blade with Aspect of Zagreus
  this requirement is on the website but it isn't here @eternal quartz

[eternal quartz]

ach, thanks

what's here is official

will change it on the website

[unkempt pagoda]

👍

[dry ember]

My heart will bleed when I get pass that Titan Blood in Styx and not bring able to buy it

[sterile portal]

If you make enough money, you can!

[trail otter]

3500 ez

[main osprey]

I mean, I recently finished a run with almost 5k obol, so it's definitely doable xD

I'm expecting to see a lot of Hoarding Slashes

[trail otter]

5k_ jeez

[main osprey]

It's in #h1-victory-boasting somewhat recently, I was going hard into Hoarding Slash xD

[dry jay]

@unkempt pagoda O/ hullo friend!

[unkempt pagoda]

hey!

[dry jay]

How's Hades today!? I'm about to sit down for a run!

[main osprey]

The river runs red, the sky is gray, all is hell in Hades ^.^

[unkempt pagoda]

i’m planning to get hades a little bit later too

[dry jay]

[forest marsh]

Tried this week's challenge. Thought I had it on the first try but died to phase 2 Hades. Subsequent attempts were less successful. Taking a break for now, TD2 + FO2 is stressful

[main osprey]

question @sterile portal do we need to take Erebus gates if they offer Hermes?

[sterile portal]

I would rule no, just because Erebus isn't very fun, and the challenge doesn't go up to 15 heat

[main osprey]

o7

[sterile portal]

You're welcome to try of course

[gleaming current]

What about rerolling? Would rerolling into hermes force you in the chamber?

[main osprey]

...I just discovered that Malphon's uppercut hits twice

[cunning urchin]

Dash-Upper hits once, though.

[main osprey]

yeah

[weary gust]

does Ares not have a cast for Naegling's Board?

[main osprey]

he should

it doesn't show up on the wiki, but neither does his variant for Hera

[weary gust]

oh I see

im not sure hera gets variants

[turbid needle]

Hera doesn't have variants.

[weary gust]

I had a run where my arrows were shooting out ice laser turrets

[main osprey]

oh, then nvm

then it doesn't show up on the wiki, but it does exist

[weary gust]

the wiki mentions it in some spots

slicing flare

[main osprey]

iirc, it's just a larger & slower version

[weary gust]

do you know if it can qualify for the artemis/ares duo?

[main osprey]

beowulf doesn't, so no

[weary gust]

rip

ty

[main osprey]

though the wiki has slicing flare as a prereq for hunting blades...

which is weird

[forest marsh]

Died in second phase of Hades on the challenge run again

[main osprey]

alright, about to enter Styx for the challenge run

[cunning urchin]

Good luck!

[main osprey]

thanks :3

check #h1-victory-boasting

@forest marsh what weapon/aspect are you using?

[forest marsh]

My only almost successful runs have been with AR/Lucifer and AR/Hestia

I'm about to enter Hades again, this is my best run so far. Full DDs for once

5 minutes on the clock

[dry jay]

Stream it

[forest marsh]

I'm recording it

[dry jay]

Oh we don't have voice channels. I hate myself

[main osprey]

I was a doofus and didn't record most of my run, I honestly didn't expect to make it

[forest marsh]

YES

YESSSSS

[main osprey]

yes?!

[forest marsh]

I did it

[main osprey]

woohoo!

[forest marsh]

This was the hardest of the weekly challenges yet

Every other one I first-tried

I think this was attempt... 5 or 6

[main osprey]

this one I got first try, but I've also recently done several runs with some mixture of FO2 and getting lots of Obol, so adding TD2 wasn't a huge stretch (and got really lucky with my hammers)

[forest marsh]

I almost made my first try

Just was way too reckless in Hades fight

I also had some bad luck with boon spawns

[main osprey]

I used all 3 DDs and started almost full

[forest marsh]

This time I had Athena crutch dash

And Athena aid

[main osprey]

yeah, I had Athena dash for the second half, and started with Athena's special

(zag spear)

[forest marsh]

Will post a screenshot in #h1-victory-boasting in a sec

[main osprey]

ah, but you had nearly 100 more obols than I did

also woah you have a lot of nectar

[forest marsh]

I mean, I've been playing since the game released, though mostly only around the update cycles

[main osprey]

fair enough

[forest marsh]

Gotta make sure I always have a for

[main osprey]

okay that was really weird, it took a moment for the nectar emote to appear

[forest marsh]

I didn't even pay attention to if I got the extra on the plume, but I guess I can check the video

I spent as much as I could while keeping above 2k

Which I think meant I got to buy one thing from the Styx hub

Looks like I did not get the Plume bonus for the Hades fight

[clear dome]

does sea storm have a cool down on lightnign or does it trigger every hit?

for a fast firing weapon

[main osprey]

I didn't notice a cooldown when I used it with the rail's 4th

but I wasn't paying super close attention

[rare kayak]

wow ive literally never bought aether net huh

just got the prophecy to buy all the well items

also i went like eight runs without doing the poseidon theseus prophecy because i always ignore poseidon lol

although chaos with poseidon special and second wave is pretty fun, plus sea storm in the mix

[cunning urchin]

Aether Net is really good.

Poseidon's call, dash, and cast are really good.

[rare kayak]

im kinda biased against well items because i never find myself needing that extra edge

other than hydralite

admittedly the new update made them much more usable

[forest marsh]

Bone Hourglass runs are fun

[cunning urchin]

If you have an Attack and Special already, it's a good idea to go for his boons when you see him.

[forest marsh]

Just buy all the things and they last forever

[cunning urchin]

Bone Hourglass is great in Elysium.

[rare kayak]

mm true

im addicted to god keepsakes though

still havent gotten the charm fist run

[cunning urchin]

If you buy items from the Well after Elysium before switching keepsakes, you essentially get to use the Bone Hourglass for Styx for free.

And still get to pick the Acorn for Hades.

[forest marsh]

So what I'm hearing is blow some rerolls and buy out the well twice and then switch keepsakes

[rare kayak]

i dont really understand the 15% being good

[cunning urchin]

Yeah lol.

[rare kayak]

but then again it is like mega cheap

but yeah i find myself underutilizing well items a lot of the time

which i think also ties in to me overweighting the shop’s importance

[forest marsh]

I guess it depends on how much heat you're running, too

[cunning urchin]

@rare kayak it ensures you get to use your Call in practically every chamber very fast, and often a second Call at least.

[rare kayak]

hm

[cunning urchin]

Without it, you often only get 1 call in a chamber or none at all.

Depending on weapon.

[rare kayak]

yeah i toned down my heat a bit so now i only run td1 instead of 2

and i can pretty easily make td1 so i didnt see the need for well boosts

[cunning urchin]

See, Aether Net helps speed things up especially if you have a good Call.

[rare kayak]

i think i underestimate calls a lot though lol, pretty much the only ones i use are dio zeus aphro

[cunning urchin]

You also get i-frames when activating a Call, so it's more safety, too.

[forest marsh]

Poseidon call with Rip Current is hilarious (until you hit a boss)

[rare kayak]

yknow, i dont think i tested hydraulic pressure either

[forest marsh]

I like Hydraulic Might

[rare kayak]

on the other hand i tried out snap nova the other day and i really dont like it

[cunning urchin]

Poseidon's Aid and Dionysus' Aid are the best calls in the game.

[rare kayak]

doesnt help that i was playing eris so i was spamming special

[cunning urchin]

Hydraulic Might can help clear the first wave fast.

[rare kayak]

i can see that but then its basically a dead boon when most encounters have 2 or 3 waves in lava and beyond

[cunning urchin]

And is great vs minibosses because you can shred their armor faster.

[forest marsh]

Eris is a rail aspect and Snap Nova is a sword hammer so I'm not sure how those tie together

[rare kayak]

wait

nemesis

heck

always get them mixed up

sorry my memory sucks

oh true, i never considered the mini boss aspect

would probably help considerably on lava couple

[cunning urchin]

At high heat, healing items are also completely useless. Meanwhile better wmearly DPS from Aether Net or Hydraulic Might lets you clear the first wave much faster.

Better for TD2 and just gets rid of actual threats to your life.

[rare kayak]

hm

true

[cunning urchin]

If you see a wave of Flamewheels, having an early Call ready to take care of most of them for you is huge.

[rare kayak]

oh that is also true

yeah im starting to see it

but why does zagreus not simply lucksack a flame wheel release in first chamber

[clear dome]

why cant a flamewheel release be purchased from the contractor?

[rare kayak]

its a well item

[cunning urchin]

I summoned Skelly I think twice for Flamewheels in my 52 clear. Definitely once.

Flamewheels are mean.

[rare kayak]

very rude

i love hades spear without dc vs flamewheels though

more so with massive rapid spin

[cunning urchin]

I love anything without DC.

The best part of it is no DC.

[turbid needle]

What's messed up is that I took DC off my Deadly Strike Lucy 32 clear.

[cunning urchin]

I probably would, too. DC is nasty.

[rare kayak]

“its just two hits, thats barely anything”

then i took it off for some relaxed runs

[turbid needle]

Spawning into Piercing Fire made it tolerable, but that was it.

[rare kayak]

you really feel the difference then

[cunning urchin]

You can burst through CP2 by just getting more damage.

[turbid needle]

^

[cunning urchin]

Same with JS3.

DC2 will always tank 2 hits.

[turbid needle]

JS3 scares me unless I have Piercing Fire because then Greatshields crush it.

[cunning urchin]

And DC2 with Savior is easily a run ender in a lot of situations.

[rare kayak]

thankfully, i never encountered shifter cloner flamewheels back when i ran bp2

[turbid needle]

I got Shifter Puller Flamewheels not infrequently.

[cunning urchin]

You can time out to that in Tartarus.

[rare kayak]

athena trial aint so bad unless youve got greatshields

they barely move so you cant lure them out of the invul

which is really annoying

i had two shifter brightsword rooms in a recent run too

annoying habit of teleporting right behind you and hitting you

[cunning urchin]

shifter cloner flamewheels
Cloner isn't possible in Elysium, actually. Only enemies in Tartarus can have Cloner.

[main osprey]

luckily xD

[rare kayak]

oh thats great

cloner sucks

especially with dc2

not bad with dc0 though

[cunning urchin]

Tartarus enemies are easy, though.

So you can generally deal with it.

[rare kayak]

yeah

[unkempt pagoda]

em4 hades does abyssal blood instead of boiling

[turbid needle]

Is it still twice as strong as Zag's?

[unkempt pagoda]

yes

50% slow zag, have fun

[forest marsh]

As long as you aren't also doing FO2 that's not so bad. I prefer reduced move speed as a Chaos curse over several other curses

[magic dagger]

does it affect dash distance?

[unkempt pagoda]

maybe it'd be both at the same time

[magic dagger]

Our abyssal blood affects his, right?

[forest marsh]

EM4 Hades rides two Macedonians like roller skates

[turbid needle]

and he quotes Shadow the Hedgehog

[unkempt pagoda]

he summons two megagorgons at once

[forest marsh]

Oh wait, no, something original (not in the game). Hades gets a mech for phase 1

[lament coral]

guys, he summons Thanatos

"Do your job, Thanatos"

[cunning urchin]

That's an easy fight. Thanatos would never turn against Zagreus.

[lament coral]

"Gomenasai, Zagreus-kun, but I must reap."

[unkempt pagoda]

ez cerby shoots some fireballs at us from across the door

[cunning urchin]

Cerberus would never turn against Zagreus.

[unkempt pagoda]

he thinks he's playing catch with us

[lament coral]

"Fetch my boy, Cerberus"

[rare kayak]

em4 hades has three minion summon phases but instead of minions its bosses

[turbid needle]

actually not a bad idea?

literally boss rush

[rare kayak]

sounds like a pain

[turbid needle]

maybe with reduced health for the summoned bosses

otherwise TD would be impossible

[void fjord]

that sounds similar to what i think it wouls be which is all the bosses together

rather than summoning

like how in EM1 the fury sisters help each other

[turbid needle]

i think summon does make more sense storywise though

they need permission to be up there

but you are right, Em1 is a prior example

[void fjord]

yea i suppose, maybe hades would say lets take your greatest obstacles so far and make them one

summons a room full of BP2 flame wheels

[turbid needle]

turns out Em4 is a combination of EM1, EM2, and EM3

all bosses will show up to help
the layout will be harder
AND hades gets a better moveset

[void fjord]

also maybe he rides lernie

[turbid needle]

lernie or bust

[cunning urchin]

Lernie rides Hades.

[void fjord]

rides lernie or refund

[turbid needle]

OOF

[cunning urchin]

Hades is more mobile.

So it makes more sense.

[turbid needle]

lernie can fly tho

[void fjord]

i mean bodiless? lernie (essentially EM2 last phase) is pretty mobile

does lernie have a body ?

or just a long neck

[turbid needle]

when will they ever lern,
when will they...
ever lern

[cunning urchin]

Can't move if you insta-die to a summon in your last phase, so that doesn't count.

[void fjord]

Facts

is shady better with dark regenration

or is chtonic vitality as good (assume the bounties are there and not darkness)

[cunning urchin]

Hmm. I think with bounties, I would just always take Chthonic Vitality, probably.

[unkempt pagoda]

nope, chthonic vitality is still not good

coming from a player who still is doing bounties

dark regen still procs on troves, well and charon darkness, poseidon and chaos boosts, etc

you’d still get way more healing than vitality

[void fjord]

tru and becomes a 2nd source of healing

[unkempt pagoda]

vitality’s 3 per room is mathematically just really bad lol

[lament coral]

and it suffers a lot more from LS

[cunning urchin]

I prefer Chthonic Vitality a lot over Dark Regeneration on my Hell mode save where I'm still farming bounties, and I still need a lot of bounties on my main save and would do the same there.

[alpine compass]

Hey everybody I had a question regarding the boon from Hermes, Swift Strike.
Does it affect the bow or anything? Cause I kinda feel like it doesn't at all, but maybe it does and I'm just dumb

[static jacinth]

It charges a bit faster.

[eternal quartz]

And Flurry shot is quicker

[static jacinth]

What do people feel is the best cast for Poseidon sword shenangans?

I'd guess like... Artemis? Maybe Athena. Spamming Phalanx shot seems like it could be good.

[alpine compass]

Thanks!

[lament coral]

definitely Artemis

[hearty elbow]

Since you have to get Poseidon for Mirage Shot anyway, I wonder if there's merit to shooting for Blizzard Shot over True Shot.

Not that a 2 duo build is probably worth going for, but yeah

[static jacinth]

I mean it could be fun at the very least.

But the problem is that Blizzard Shot pierces, so it doesn't get stuck, right?

Kind of wasting your sword at that point.

[hearty elbow]

Oh, didn't know it pierces. I haven't used it in a very long time. And it's not a total waste lol. It's still got the 50% damage buff

Kind of like how people use Trippy Shot with Hera, even though you don't get to use Hera's upgrade bonus. Still works

[random hull]

Has anyone tried Cold Embrace with Hera? It looks good on paper - instead of having to run towards a foe to target, the bow does it for you. But does it really work?

[static jacinth]

I think Cold Embrace is just kinda bad and awkward.

[random hull]

I know. I am thinking of a way to make it work.

Or try to, at least.

[solemn pumice]

Tips for Guan Yu? It works great against slow enemies in Tartarus but against anything else it’s ???

[outer topaz]

Ares-Atermis boons with some Zeus and Poseidon is just OP like whoa. Managed to beat Theseus so fast (I always target him first, he is just heckin' ANNOYING)

And with Hermes' epic boon of 1sec 100% sturdy speed. I can create a LOT of blade rifts

[lament coral]

@solemn pumice Athena attack and look for Quick Spin and Big Spin hammers

if that's not working out, you could try to pivot towards special with Aphrodite and Charged Special hammer

worst case scenario, you take Triple Dash Attack hammer and just look for extra dashes from Hermes

and as always, get as much max HP as you can

[solemn pumice]

I’m starting to think it’s a mistake to use it unless it’s fully upgraded

[lament coral]

oh, absolutely

[turbid needle]

u wanna use the special a lot too

its a lot faster than the spin without hammers

so u dont get rekt

[barren otter]

Does Blood Frenzy stack with itself? If I lose 2 death defiances in one encounter, will I get double the bonus from it?

[cunning urchin]

I've no idea actually.

When you have something like that, you could record your run, so that later you can check the damage numbers to see if it works that way.

I do that sometimes.

[green plover]

Tried out TD1. Elysium is just...

Ruined a pretty good run.

[pseudo lark]

What build were you using?

[green plover]

Chaos shield, chaos aspect. It was a half decent build, Artemis attack and Dio special. Ran through Asphodel and Tartarus with 4-5 minutes remaining on each.

I think I got a bunch of beeg rooms in Elysium, which costed me the run. Barely had 1 and a half minute for the Champions.

[cunning urchin]

Try to put some poms on your Flourish early to around Lv.5 ideally!

That will help you a lot with keeping damage up through Elysium.

I would also recommend you try to save at least 4 summon charges for Elysium and beyond.

It's like a no-brainer in hindsight to try to keep all your summon charges for Elysium and beyond because TD isn't a problem until then, but I hadn't really done that deliberately until @dry ember said to do it. It helps a lot!

[lapis pilot]

so re my earlier beef with elysium, the mobs there don't really seem to be staggered at all (particularly spear wielders), even when stripped of armor, while in prior biomes other shades/wretches can be - am i missing something? Like having to inflict a certain amount of dmg to stagger mobs?

[cunning urchin]

You can't stagger enemies that have armor.

[lapis pilot]

for context, i'm around 47 clears and about 5 heat currently

[cunning urchin]

And I think like the Longspears, example, can't be interrupted if they're already in their triple jab animation. So they basically have "Sturdy" similar to what you can get from some hammer upgrades.

[lapis pilot]

i get that the armor = no stagger, but without it they're still sturdy

[cunning urchin]

It takes a lot of practice and experience to really figure out how to handle the different Exalted well. It's tough!

[lapis pilot]

for spears imo it's a case of coming at them perpendicularly when they start atk animation

but for whatever reason i haven't dialled in the visual/audio cue for it

[cunning urchin]

For the longest time, everything was so hectic that I couldn't even tell Longspears from Brightswords in the heat of battle a lot of the time. 😅

Hmm. I kind of fight them intuitively, so I can't even explain too much lol.

Enemies generally have some recovery after their attacks hit or whiff, so that's a good time to go in and deal some damage!

For most attacks that lunge forward in some way, it's usually a good idea to dash through the enemy. Then you can go in for backstabs after they whiff!

[lapis pilot]

tangential, what's the consensus on EM theseus? I've had a much better fight by taking Theseus out first before dealing with minos

[untold quiver]

I'm finally getting the hang of upgraded Lerny think it's probably time to start learning the upgraded champs

[cunning urchin]

Ideally, you take down both Theseus and Asterius at the same time—which usually involves focusing on Theseus and hitting Asterius as well in the process. But it's not always doable. Depends on a lot of things. Sometimes it's really best to just take down Asterius first and focus on Theseus afterwards.

[untold quiver]

So...... basically the same strategy in broad strokes as non em champs?

[cunning urchin]

Essentially.

[lapis pilot]

Lol took arthur out for a spin and chose deadly strike and then like immediately crit for 1000 in next room

[untold vortex]

yeah, that's arthur + deadly strike for ya

[green plover]

Summons are an issue rn since I'm more focussed on story, so Skelly is the only level 2 summon I have.

I did use Skelly for the Butterfly Ball. Wait, that was my main culprit.

Too many ads had spawned in by then.

[static jacinth]

Getting summons progresses the story too.

[green plover]

Oh I should clarify, summons' levels.

[static jacinth]

Is Aphrodite's cast good with Beowolf shield?

[unkempt pagoda]

one of the best ones i've heard

[weary gust]

can Talos Fists get the kinetic launcher mod?

feels like it should be one of the ones it cant but the wiki doesnt say

[pseudo stream]

is the +30% damage worth it for bow?

and which bow aspect do people suggest if I'm only gonna upgrade once (for now)

[static jacinth]

Fully upgrade?

[pseudo stream]

1 blood ideally 😛 I still haven't finished the game

[static jacinth]

Hah.

Well Zagreus aspect is a solid one that doesn't require much investment.

Though Hera Aspect is pretty good for only one upgrade of investment.

You get the most boost from one rank in it, while Zagreus aspect really wants all 5 ranks to do its best.

But it's cheap at least. Only 5 blood.

[pseudo stream]

that's not cheap, I only have 3 left atm 😛

[gleaming current]

Then hera is probably the best, ye

[pseudo stream]

neat, that one seems fun too

[gleaming current]

Definitely not chiron, zagreus will feel too weak of change

[static jacinth]

Yeah, just go with Hera. Or Rama.

Rama is lovely.

But I'm guessing you don't have that.

[gleaming current]

I'd imagine they won't have access to 4th yet

[static jacinth]

Yeah.

[pseudo stream]

I do not 😛

[static jacinth]

It's also fine to just not invest anything. I like the bow just out of the box just fine.

I got my first win on it.

[green ember]

Chiron is awesome. You just have to focus on special boons that take advantage of the multi hit capabilities (like Zeus, Dionysus, or Demeter)

[static jacinth]

Chiron really wants you to invest the full 15 blood in it though.

[gleaming current]

Chiron sure is awesome, but at only 1 upgrade, 3 arrows instead of 7 is horrific

[static jacinth]

Which can be hard to scrape together. So many things you want.

Blood economy is rough.

[gleaming current]

Only way to play with that would be to pray for starter hammer for +4 arrows on special

[pseudo stream]

tbh bow special seems kind of bad to me with normal bow

[gleaming current]

It needs... specific approach. Heh

[static jacinth]

All about playstyle I guess. I enjoy it a lot!

[iron shale]

so yeah go hera

[gleaming current]

Either point-blank in enemies or get boons for special that trigger on hit instead of giving % attack (zeus, ares) and spray the room

[pseudo stream]

okay Hera's is super fun,m thanks 😄

[static jacinth]

I just dash around shooting everything.

With power shot for big damage.

Or with Sharanga for just bonkers damage, but slow.

[pseudo stream]

power shot being the flashy arrow shot thing?

what's Sharanga? haha

[main osprey]

Something you'll find out about later ^.^

And yeah, that's power shot

[static jacinth]

Yeah, when you've fully charged your shot, it does bonus damage.

There's a hammer that makes that even better.

[trail otter]

It also makes it easier to hit iirc

[static jacinth]

Learning to master the power shot is pretty important for bow damage.

[main osprey]

The hammer says that, but the wiki doesn't, so I'm actually not sure it makes it easier

I also haven't gotten the hammer in a while

[turbid needle]

Game information is always accurate, Wiki can be out-of-date.

[main osprey]

I just realized that didn't make any sense, I'm very tired xD

[random hull]

The problem with the bow is that you need to master the power shot timing twice - once for normal and once for dash attack. I can't get it right.

[main osprey]

Yeah, what Schpoon said

[eternal quartz]

What about rerolling? Would rerolling into hermes force you in the chamber?
@gleaming current yes :)

[gleaming current]

[hearty elbow]

@random hull It's harder than that. The timing gets modified by Attack speed as well. And there's 4 ranks of the Hermes buff

[pseudo stream]

any last boss advice? on them at full health with 1 death defiance (wish I'd bought my third, but was missing some dark 😢)

[hearty elbow]

Until you become extremely familiar with the spacing, do not try to dodge away from Hades when he does the spin. Dodge behind him

[cunning urchin]

@pseudo stream see if this helps any! https://docs.google.com/document/d/137Vqe-8fvStMJ_HMlBKWwq3SVdoOED0lOpBBSmgGwtQ/edit?usp=sharing

I still need to go through that doc some time. It's just a collection of tips I've written here in the server at some point or another.

Some stuff I haven't written down yet, either.

[hearty elbow]

Yeah there's some repeat information. And I don't think I saw a note about Sure Footing, which is excellent in Styx and also affects Urn damage

[pseudo stream]

uuuuugh 30% second phase, another death defiance definiotely would have done it

[hearty elbow]

Sorry 😦

Oh, also if you get hit by a skull, the big debuff indicator all over your screen is the same Boiling Blood you can apply to other people (so 50% more damage)... so play a bit more conservatively until it pops out of you

[zenith jay]

Whats a good keepsake to pick when you dont want any specific god?

Besises coin purse

[hearty elbow]

Collar, Bone Hourglass, Coin purse

[main osprey]

Shackle if early

[cunning urchin]

Collar of all things?

[hearty elbow]

sorry i meant shackles

[main osprey]

Hahaha

[cunning urchin]

Cosmic Egg is good.

I'd take Cosmic Egg or Chthonic Coin Purse if I don't want anything specific.

[trail otter]

man i need to lvl comsic egg. i take chaos almost every time

[cunning urchin]

Or just Acorn if I know I'm keeping that for the rest of the run.

[zenith jay]

Does it guarantee chaos appearing?

[unkempt pagoda]

no

[zenith jay]

I dont like picking it and not getting chaos gates

[pseudo stream]

Oh, also if you get hit by a skull, the big debuff indicator all over your screen is the same Boiling Blood you can apply to other people (so 50% more damage)... so play a bit more conservatively until it pops out of you
@hearty elbow oh cool, I had no idea!

[unkempt pagoda]

light of ixions are pretty common though

[cunning urchin]

You can check the Well before a region for a Light of Ixion, then switch to Cosmic Egg if you see one.

[trail otter]

oh yeah, its big brain time

[gleaming current]

Isn't boiling blood from skulls actually 2x damage taken? Just to make sure

[unkempt pagoda]

yes

[gleaming current]

(Not like it's healthy being hit by one either way) Aighty

[trail otter]

the 50% is actually your effective health pool

[main osprey]

XD

[trail otter]

but jesus x2 dmg? man i need to respect those things more... ive been acting as if i didnt have them in me whenever i get hit

[hearty elbow]

Loool, I didn't know that. That should also be mentioend in that Google Doc @cunning urchin

[cunning urchin]

What should be mentioned?

[hearty elbow]

2x damage for Skull boiling blood debuff

[cunning urchin]

I linked my WR in the Hades reddit and almost immediately 2 people downvoted it. I can't even.

[unkempt pagoda]

link it here i'll upvote it

[trail otter]

F

why tho

[cunning urchin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hearty elbow]

People probably got spurned by Daddy Degrande's attempt 😛

[gleaming current]

"hurr durr shields op"

[hearty elbow]

Yeah def some of that too lol, ignoring that she didn't even use Chaos

[turbid needle]

ppl just downvote stuff for the heck of it don't think about it tbh

[trail otter]

what is it world record for? Just that she finnished it first or quickest?

[turbid needle]

same as every yt video in existence having dislikes

[hearty elbow]

First

[trail otter]

ahhhh

[cunning urchin]

Highest heat cleared was 51. Nobody else has done 52 yet.

Haelian got 51, horheristo got 50.

[hearty elbow]

No one's actually "beaten the game" yet, so overall people aren't terribly concerned about speed speedruns, because no "canonical" heat has been determined for them

[gleaming current]

Tbf youtube dislikes don't affect popularity, while reddit's system is built around score so it's a lot more impactful

[cunning urchin]

Speedruns are a thing, too.

But I don't do those.

[unkempt pagoda]

wait, i just saw the post

[cunning urchin]

Anyway, Boiling Blood from Hades is additive with Hard Labor. Normal spin attack is 40. With HL5 it's 80. With Boiling Blood it's 80. With HL5 and Boiling Blood, it's 120.

[unkempt pagoda]

i'm 99% sure they downvoted because they saw woman in the title, bc redditors are dumb

[main osprey]

Lmao

Yup

I just saw it as well

[cunning urchin]

Probably.

[hearty elbow]

That's really nice info, thanks.

[trail otter]

ya just saw it

oof

[main osprey]

An upvote from me, good lady Nyaa ^.^

[hearty elbow]

Didn't want to be the one to say it hahaha

[unkempt pagoda]

calling out misogyny is always a good thing, especially on reddit

[hearty elbow]

though LOL the title of the thread. Nice @cunning urchin

Gonna be some salty neckbeards out there

[cunning urchin]

lol I read too many manga. Or not enough.

[hearty elbow]

it's a tightrope

[gleaming current]

And here i am trying to figure out how to go faster with bows
Other weps can 20 minutes in my hands, chiron only got 33
(welp, at least got 14 titan blood for prophecies in process )

It's like, I deal 400 dmg per special, but it feels so sluggish regardless that it's not worth the burst

[cunning urchin]

I'm still trying to figure that out myself lol.

I think I have a better shot at beating 53 with Beowulf than 40 with Coronacht.

[gleaming current]

Well, to be fair, to be fair, at least that allows for way less damage taken in process. Piercing butterfly still won't carry that out though due to additive damage

(and also that bow counters DC2 jaja)

[trail otter]

@broken nexus unless you are going with a very slow weapon i recomend Damage Control, after that i like Benefits Package and Extreme Measures because they mix up the encounters/bosses a bit. If you dont feel confident agains the bosses though id personaly go for Heightened Security. If you struggle against traps aswell id say Calisthenics Program or something similair.

[cunning urchin]

Aaaand we're back down to 56% upvotes.

[main osprey]

XD

[trail otter]

nice!

[stuck elbow]

@cunning urchin I agree tbh, Beowulf was definitely slept on for a while. Like it’s a really strong aspect

Whereas like Coronacht has a few issues

[hearty elbow]

Well... not really due to the bulk of the design space for Beo though haha

Beo's core mechanic is flawed

[cunning urchin]

I think Damage Control is one of the worst pacts you can take.

[trail otter]

oh?

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, it's effective health multiplier for most builds is higher than virtually any other pact per point.

[unkempt pagoda]

i'll have to agree

[hearty elbow]

Exceptions are Rail, Fists, Dio builds

[main osprey]

It was the first one I tried, and it felt really easy except for the bow, and on Chiron it wasn't even that hard

[cunning urchin]

That's because 1 heat is very easy either way.

[green plover]

It basically ruins your potential 1-hit/2-hit kills by adding more hits in.

[hearty elbow]

on most weapons, DC2 with BP2 could very trivially end a run

[green plover]

And bogging you down pretty much per enemy.

[cunning urchin]

The best tank keepsake is Evergreen Acorn.

I keep saying Damage Control should be renamed "every enemy has Acorn" to appropriately scare people away lol.

[trail otter]

ive never really struglled with it. But ill trust your judgment on this

feels like it would be hellish high heat

[hearty elbow]

It's not scary on its own. It just scales obnoxiously with other Pacts the higher you go

[green plover]

By itself it's not the issue.

What ledger said.

[trail otter]

ah

[gleaming current]

DC2 is a good starter heat though ig, when you don't have TD yet and mostly struggle on bosses

[cunning urchin]

No 1 heat is scary.

Maybe Heightened Security because it can end your run out of nowhere.

[gleaming current]

150 dmg urns definitely can

[hearty elbow]

Like, if you have a Saviour Speedy room, with Numbskulls, FO2, HL5, and DC2, unless you are a small subset of builds, you will not leave that room

[gleaming current]

Asphodel also turns in actual hell

[trail otter]

ahhh

[green plover]

150 dmg urns definitely can
So can the 100 damage arrows in Elysium.

[cunning urchin]

I think almost any build can clear that room, to be honest. But it's way more dificult than it needs to be.

[trail otter]

man it took me so long to realise urns count as traps

[gleaming current]

And 75 dmg bombs and 100 dmg saws
There is a lot of traps once you actually start taking damage

[hearty elbow]

Lol, TD2 makes that proposition iffier

[cunning urchin]

It's Tartarus.

You have plenty of time.

[green plover]

TD put me in a false sense of security in Tar and Aspho.

Then wrecked me in Elysium

I'm sure Styx is just pray for second tunnel sack.

[hearty elbow]

Yeah it's probably the most complained about thing in the game. Hopefully they'll address an alternative

[neon bramble]

Like, if you have a Saviour Speedy room, with Numbskulls, FO2, HL5, and DC2, unless you are a small subset of builds, you will not leave that room

....?

Not with numbskulls

Maybe wretched thugs or louts

https://imgur.com/a/MiH3YFU

[hearty elbow]

Hmm, yeah it's my own personal experience tainting it, I've had by far the most annoyance with the BP2 Numbskull rooms in Tartarus.

Lol... that looks about right

[median matrix]

ok real question, i love all the weapons in hades but ive found the fists mostly just frustrating to use, any advice?

[cunning urchin]

Well, your Call did most of the work there shredding through the hearts.

[main osprey]

And you also barely used your bull rush...?

[neon bramble]

Yeah, I couldn't use the cast because it was Poseidon and was just blowing them apart

[green plover]

Manthro, I think your build comes under the subset ledger mentioned.

[hearty elbow]

Athena attack is great for training wheels until you get used to spacing. Long Knuckle makes it a breeze.

[main osprey]

Oh wait, is that beo?

[neon bramble]

Yes

[main osprey]

Ah, okay

That's why no bull rushes

[dry ember]

Dragon >> Bull

[neon bramble]

@median matrix what's your general build on fists?

[trail otter]

@median matrix What do you find frustrating about it?

[dry ember]

Obvs

[cunning urchin]

You could have used Flood Shot specifically to knock them apart and focus down one or two.

Not that you needed to, anyway.

[neon bramble]

Before that clip, I was trying to use the cast... It wasn't working

It was like 30s of futility

[median matrix]

im yet to find a build, but the close range + low damage is brutal

[hearty elbow]

I see that room and I think I would just pre-emptively give up if I was on non-dio Coronacht

[neon bramble]

What aspect do you use?

[median matrix]

i had a build that allowed my main attack to do 150% damage and my main way of doing damage was STILL the uppercut

[cunning urchin]

Curse of Agony > Divine Dash > Merciful End for Malphon.

[dry ember]

Doom and attack, Delfect on Dash

[cunning urchin]

lol

[median matrix]

i just moved to magnetic upper and its a lot of fun so far

[dry ember]

Beeline for Merc End

[hearty elbow]

The crit goddess trio also works for Fists, as they do with virtually everything

[neon bramble]

There are two main fist builds for Demeter aspect

Merciful end as already stated

Heart rend with ahprodite attack and Artemis special

[dry ember]

If you want I can send you a vod of an ME build that finished in 9 mins

[median matrix]

im still mad abt that build btw... i might just be salty but auuugh 150% damage and it was still garbo

[gleaming current]

Question tho
Do merciful end procs have an inner timer just like with, say, bow specials?

[neon bramble]

You can also do deadly reversal with Athena attack... But it's not as effective as you think

[dry ember]

Nope

You can slap Doom on Zeus Shield

Special then dash

And watch things melt.

[hearty elbow]

Yeah I like Aphro attack more but there's no denying Athena attack makes stuff like getting shotgunned by Splitters a lot less scary

[dry ember]

But @median matrix give the Merc End build a try. One of the most powerful build in the game.

[hearty elbow]

I still haven't tried it either. I haven't gotten FIsts to 32 yet, maybe i'll do that tonight

[gleaming current]

Well if there is no cd then athena attack ares special would work better, won't it?

[neon bramble]

@@median matrix two other low key amazing builds are Demeter attack + as many chill support boons as possible

Or

Vengeful mood with as many curses as you can get

With privileged status, vengeful mood on fists is actually insane

[dry ember]

@gleaming current for fists?

[gleaming current]

Indeed

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, fists have a Sturdy hammer that works great with Vengeful Mood. That along with the life gain on special

special kill*

[dry ember]

No because you need to apply doom quickly and special is slow

[gleaming current]

Merciful end?

[dry ember]

Yeab

[neon bramble]

Merciful end is optimal with ares attack and Athena dash for fists

[dry ember]

Doom spec Deflect att is clunkier than it sounds

[gleaming current]

Or do i not understand how it actually works?

[neon bramble]

If you have long knuckle, even better

[dry ember]

You can try for yourself

[gleaming current]

Well that implies getting a run

[dry ember]

Doom Att Deflect Dash is much better

[hearty elbow]

Merciful End consumes the doom, so you need to continuously apply doom at least as fast as you can dash through stuff

[dry ember]

Or do i not understand how it actually works?
Maybe. How do you think it works?

[gleaming current]

Okay, I think I found the issue in my understanding. Does doom have to be applied before deflect will activate it instantly?

[neon bramble]

Yes

[gleaming current]

Aight, then it all makes sense

[dry ember]

Yeah your Deflect doesn't do doom damage

It would be extra extra busted xD

[neon bramble]

It's unfortunate Athena's curse doesn't apply deflect to every enemy it hits

[dry ember]

Imagine 200 ish damage per fists hit

[neon bramble]

Because it would be hilariously op with merciful end

[cunning urchin]

@frank tide gonna move that here.

I've used Malphon more than any other weapon. It handles DC a whole lot better than most, but it's not free. Just the fact alone that you can't stun any enemies with your Dash-Strike for 1-2 hits can make situations a lot more difficult to handle.

[gleaming current]

Well you can get 100 ish with zeus, but 200 ish is indeed a ton more sweet

with less setup too

[neon bramble]

True @cunning urchin but at higher heats almost every enemy has armour anyway

So it's essentially free on that regard vs 90% of enemies

[cunning urchin]

There are still quite a lot of enemies without armor. And it's a discussion I moved from the new player channel, anyway.

[dry ember]

I thought the amount of armored enemies are the same regardless of heat? The only thing that changes that is JS which just spawns more enemies in general?

[cunning urchin]

Yeah. And I honestly think the "BP makes more armored enemies spawn" is a myth, anyway.

[dry ember]

Also DC is weird. You put it on and you don't feel that much difference. But you turn it off and suddenly everything dies way faster.

[neon bramble]

Next you're gonna tell me that Dragons don't exist 🙄

And Santa

[cunning urchin]

No, dragons do exist.

[frank tide]

BP3: every enemy is armored and they all get 3 perks

[neon bramble]

😆

[frank tide]

OwO

[dry ember]

||Batman is Bruce Wayne.||

[cunning urchin]

In fact, I use the shield of a famous dragon slayer.

[pseudo stream]

for the deflect cast, is it worth saving some for deflecting? I don't think the timing is reasonable for that but wanna check?

[dry ember]

Liar, Apollo isn't the game

[main osprey]

Who?

:3

[neon bramble]

Deflect cast is probably bottom 3 casts in game

Just my opinion

[dry ember]

Apollo, man, legendary god?

Deflect cast is probably bottom 3 casts in game
@neon bramble bold.

[cunning urchin]

Phalanx Shot is amazing.

[main osprey]

Huh? You mean Helios? >:3

[hearty elbow]

I love Phalanx Shot

[neon bramble]

It's ok

I prefer it over other casts for sure

[cunning urchin]

You're essentially perfectly safe when you cast it.

[static jacinth]

Phalanx shot does pretty respectable damage. And has a radius to it.

And it protects you while it's in flight.

[hearty elbow]

All casts suck for most builds, but Phalanx Shot at high heat does so many things without support

[cunning urchin]

And it lets you engage perfectly safely with melee.

[neon bramble]

It's hilarious vs Lernie laser head

[static jacinth]

As casts go, it's one of the better ones for zero investment.

[hearty elbow]

I think it's the best cast for builds that don't want to cast

Tied with Flood Shot

[frank tide]

are there any halfway decent builds revolving around casts that don't use hera/beo?

[neon bramble]

I'm not saying its bad, I'm just saying there are clearly superior casts to phalanx shot

[broken nexus]

hey all so am stuck at heat 3 mostly - any tips on the least painful heats to turn on?

[static jacinth]

It's much harder at high heat, but Demeter's Cast as a build is pretty good.

Same with the beyblade of doom setup with Ares.

[hearty elbow]

Middle Management, Lasting Consequences

[cunning urchin]

@pseudo stream I haven't actually tried casting it in reaction to anything for deflect except maybe sometimes intuitively. You should test for yourself how reliably you can do that for different attacks. It's a really good idea.