Sometimes the gods are toying with you like not offering you a cast when you pick hera or not a special when you go chiron
#h1-builds-and-combat
sand cape
naive tusk
@hushed ledge You should specify which weapon you mean. Every weapon has an Aspect of Zagreus variant.
Regarding your post in #hades-feedback .
naive tusk
Oh, I misread. Whoops!
cunning urchin
Ban @hushed ledge. Ask questions later. 
sterile portal
Never make Nyaa a mod
naive tusk
I will just say this before I boop again: I love Aspect of Zeus the way it is now π
Now, poof π
naive tusk
I have to say, holding down the Special button to make it stay in one place will make my finger hurt over time π
hushed ledge
The idea is that you only hold the special button when you want it to move
There's many ways to implement this, I'm just not a fan of the current "throw out and have to recall to reposition"
naive tusk
I'm trying to remember where I've seen this mechanic where you could stop your projectile by pressing the same button a 2nd time...
I remember!
It wasn't a stop, but rather a detonation. Lt. Morales from Heroes of the Storm. So, one of her basic skills is a grenade that you launch and detonates once it travels the whole range but if you press the button again, it will detonate at the place where it was. So the Blitz Disc could have a mechanic like that where it will stop where you press the button a 2nd time. I don't know if it would be hard to implement but it would be a great quality-of-life improvement 
cunning urchin
Might as well do Exploding Shields.
naive tusk
Then pressing the button a 3rd time will recall the shield. Seems like a solid idea to me 
cunning urchin
Or is that basically Chaos Aspect.
naive tusk
There's Explosive Return π
cunning urchin
Could be a fun hammer if the shield just explodes when it hits a target instead.
But then also explodes when you catch it?
Twice the explosions!
naive tusk
I like booms.
sterile portal
On to Asphodel! Game please give me an attack boon!
magic dagger
attack boons are crutches
astral phoenix
Cast boons are where it's at
cunning urchin
Who needs core boons? I did it without core boons.
naive tusk
Hm... I don't remember if someone made a suggestion like the one I just made in feedback but I guess I can throw in a reference to that skill I mentioned. It might be useful, maybe. Guess it wouldn't hurt...
sterile portal
Alright, question, artemis attack or special and hold out for a better attack?
and Nyaa you did it without an attack?
41 heat?
sterile portal
Same, also had no chaos or anything and got to hades second fight but died
Will try that again when I have another long phone call
Trying high heat fists rn, hence the desire for an attack boon
sudden dagger
Whew
cunning urchin
42?
Re your question, I don't know what other boons you have or what aspect you're using.
sterile portal
43 heat, zag fists, athena dash only
cunning urchin
Trying to one-up me, though, while asking me for tips.
cunning urchin
Well, you can still get Deadly Reversal with that.
Unless you have to sacrifice one of them in Elysium, then nevermind.
sterile portal
Ugh, died to hydra head slam
cunning urchin
I can relate to that.
sudden dagger
Got my 4th clear. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717151251330105347/719419501577502730/Hades_00032.png First time zeus's attack felt like it didn't drop off. Also, cast crystals
sterile portal
Still, glad to know I can get there with no attack lol
hushed ledge
Gz!
hushed ledge
Wow 68 minutes and i thought my runs were long
sterile portal
that's the one.
sudden dagger
Yeah
I had to type out some long messages on here
patty long legs, now there's a new one! I like it
hushed ledge
I've had a 53 minute run with no afk time which was a grind
magic dagger
have you considered pausing while typing?
sudden dagger
I have to share the most fun and epic fight of the run: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717151251330105347/719420117360050226/Hades_00029.png
@magic dagger I'm sure I'll get that habit once I start running TD
hushed ledge
Demeter cast is actually fairly good in Styx and really nowhere else in my experience
sudden dagger
I didn't have a cast at all until immediately before the champs
cunning urchin
You'll appreciate Crystal Beam more when you have to pick Routine Inspection.
sudden dagger
That scares me and I don't know why yet π
I spend a significant amount of time circling rooms once they're cleared to make sure I didn't miss a trove or fancy urn also
I'm going to miss giving that up for TD π’
stoic thicket
Crystal Beam got me my first two wins almost by it's own. Yeah, there might be better options but that one will always have a special place in my heart.
magic dagger
I'm going to miss giving that up for TD π’
@sudden dagger It's more fun that way.
I promise.
sudden dagger
I believe that you're telling the truth
cunning urchin
RI3 removes Boiling Blood and extra/regen cast. So Crystal Beam at least does some damage.
magic dagger
how much RI can you have?
cunning urchin
4 removes all your mirror talents.
magic dagger
If you have mirror boons you're not really playing the game
cunning urchin
RI3 isn't used much because it also removes your extra dash.
cunning urchin
I wouldn't go so far as to say RI4 is impossible.
magic dagger
RI4 is impossible right now
not useful for high heat, maybe
but definitely possible
weak moat
I've already proven RI3 is doable at high heat
the real question is definitely if RI4 is doable at high heat
which I actually believe it is
but it would take a MADMAN to do it
cunning urchin
Or MADWOMAN.
weak moat
if you do RI4 at 40+ heat with fists that'll be the day
magic dagger
Wriste is frequently called MADMAN
But I've never even heard of MADWOMAN
who are you even talking about
cunning urchin
Let me have breakfast first.
weak moat
it'll take more than breakfast to become a madwoman
magic dagger
I expect 46 heat from you
cunning urchin
Yeah, how about a Greatest Reflex.
sterile portal
Nyaa can do 43 for sure, if not more
I suck and I did up to hydra on fists at 43
So Nyaa with Divine Crutch should pull through
cunning urchin
I suck, too.
sterile portal
You'll be fine
cunning urchin
Those two are not mutually exclusive.
dry ember
Breakfast of champions
turbid arch
I did some 46 heat attempts with the fists in a fit of self-loathing.
It was pretty neat except for me seeing almost nothing other than Bruisers for every attempt.
As in 2-4 rooms with bruisers in a row semi-regularly
magic dagger
good times
dry ember
I have a 15 min vid of me struggling through Tartarus
I have AP2 on and the game trolls me throughout the run
With all armored enemies being Bruiser
I can upload if people want a little schadenfreude.
naive tusk
In Peachy's latest run:
- Artemis' Aid
- Pressure Points
- Deadly Reversal
- Heart Rend
- Merciful End
Artemis was nuking anything
untold vortex
turbid arch
Sitting at work, feeling useless.
I had a dream last night.
It was tuesday and SGG gave us an announcement that the patch would be out next week.
It was beautiful.
cunning urchin
Talk about trolling, Master Chaos offered me Special damage for -4 HP per Attack or extra Darkness for -50% movement speed when I started with Cosmic Egg and RI4
turbid arch
Then some guys tried to mug me.
sterile portal
on fists?
cunning urchin
Yes.
sterile portal
you doing 42 or 43? cause 43 is just RI3?
cunning urchin
No, I'm doing 40 with RI4.
cunning urchin
Why not?
sterile portal
Because RI4 is terrible? I guess you aren't getting bounties anymore so that doesn't factor but RI4 is miserable?
cunning urchin
Whew, cleared this Erebus Chamber for +50 HP in Tartarus. This might be going somewhere this time.
sterile portal
Well, good luck regardless
Also, two things of note: Eurydice acorn DOES seem to lose a hit when you take damage from a mob summoned by Redacted
and just testing Stygian Blade in the courtyard, the dash distance doesn't seem to change at all between sword aspects
cunning urchin
Try leaving the room and come back.
turbid arch
Getting 50 HP out of a challenge room in Tartarus is huge
I think that Zagreus Aspect also has a pretty decent choice of making some high heated runs happen.
Even without spread fire.
If anything, I am kinda amazed that we have not seen spread fire doing such a high heated run yet, what's up with that?
You'd expect that if someone can do 40+ Heat with fists, Spread Fire should also be doable.
main osprey
What is RI? Don't remember all the pact options
cunning urchin
Routine Inspection. -3 mirror talents per rank.
turbid arch
If they would replace the extra backstab damage and/or the regeneration with the dashes, only having 3 mirror talents would be so nice.
cunning urchin
Nooooooo. https://imgur.com/a/iXt32Di
neon fiber
oof
cunning urchin
@weak moat apparently, I suck vs Meg with 1 dash and no DDs on Malphon, but I make it past the other 2 pretty consistently.
cunning urchin
Ugh, not getting past Lernie.
tepid trail
what's better shady or battie?
tepid trail
D:
sterile portal
battie because speed
cunning urchin
They're both great. Just try them and decide for yourself.
turbid arch
@cunning urchin I had one attempt where I got the fists 46 heat all the way to Theseus.
Died because Tight Deadline is a dirty dirty dirty (ALL OF THE CENSORSHIP)
The best part is:
If I would have gotten Merciful End, I would have probably won that run.
The true best part is:
I saw Merciful End and Approval Process
did NOT Approve
cunning urchin
Nice, though! You probably have a better shot at that than I do because you have a lot more experience in those fights.
turbid arch
I do not!
cunning urchin
I beat my head at 40 heat with RI4 this morning, and I must say it's brutal. 
turbid arch
Because there were just as many runs that ended in Tartarus.
Honestly, I think 40 heat would not be a problem.
I would just turn off Benefits Package probably for those exact 6 heat
and then I would be fine.
Seriously, Bruisers
Every goddamn where
cunning urchin
RI4 completely changes how you view some keepsakes, I find.
Having to pick a God keepsake almost seems detrimental.
turbid arch
Honestly, I do not like that pact option.
cunning urchin
But at the same time, getting bad boons is terrible.
turbid arch
I hate downsizing my powerlevel in games like that.
My 46 heat line up was the same as the one you saw.
Everything maxed except for Approval and the Mirror.
I tried to play around with the stubborn defiance
and honestly
I do not know if that ends up being useful to me or not.
raw violet
stubborn feels really brutal on fist for whatever reason
turbid arch
Also, on my big safefile, I do not have Dusas Companion, which I think I would prefer over Megs
raw violet
i'm probably just not used to it
turbid arch
Thats because no matter the game, you screw yourself by playing Melee.
It's the sad reality for almost every game that offers you to pick between ranged DPS and Melee DPS.
And benefits package makes it even more terrible.
On one attempt, I went into a trial of the gods room. Athena and Dionysus, I made Dionysus angry.
Small Room, some Spike Traps. He spawns Tanky Gravity Well Brimstones
You cannot approach that with the fists
cunning urchin
All the worst attacks and perks punish melee way harder.
turbid arch
because if you do, you get stuck in the wells and when you do, Dionysus will spawn beneat you, damaging you with ease.
I would have died in that room if I would not have had long knuckle.
Which helped me to survive long enough to die 2 rooms later.
cunning urchin
One Spike Trap in Tartarus with RI4 is 50% of all my life lol.
turbid arch
Maybe I should crank that RI up a bit as well.
cunning urchin
I've been considering finding a good seed that gives me a good boon at the start and running Cosmic Egg lol.
turbid arch
In order to make cosmic egg work, you cannot have AP though.
Chaos will ruin more runs for you than not otherwise.
cunning urchin
Yeah, I would try that with 0 in AP.
Go for Chaos Gates just to get a shot at the legendary. Probably the best boon in the game for when you have no DDs at all.
raw violet
i've recently had a few starts with chaos in chamber 1 that gave the legendary
shoulda saved the seed
cunning urchin
Inferno Gates are great, too.
Need to make up for that low HP and no DDs somehow.
raw violet
it's definitely not an unrealistic strat
turbid arch
I need Dusa to make them work for me early on.
If I go down there and there is a champion numbskull
I'll lose most of the time.
Champion Numbskull + BP Speed
GOTTA GO FAST LOL
cunning urchin
At 40, you can do RI4 with 0 points in BP.
Honestly, my main goal in Tartarus has just been to get any kind of max HP to increase my healing from any sources, too.
weak moat
I thought we were done with high heat runs daddy
raw violet
he's feeling the pressure
lament coral
the need for heat
untold vortex
"Feel the heat" ~Hades
turbid arch
@weak moat And I regret having come back.
To be fair, this was more of a learning experience.
I do appreciate the fists a bit more now.
weak moat
what did you try
turbid arch
Fist 46 to 50 heat runs
weak moat
athena attacks?
turbid arch
Yes
Though an attempt to get Merciful End was the best run I had.
It would have been a victory if Approval Process WOULD NOT BE THEH ASOLUT WORST!
And yes, every typo in that last part is a testament to my unyielding rage I have over that one.
Oh yeah, regarding Poseidons Wrath Effect:
You have never lived life until Poseidons Wrath effect bugged out on you for the 20. time
and forces you to launch yourself straight into a Elysium Trap
weak moat
been there b4
leaden hare
My lizard brain couldn't remember the requirements of all duo boons so I made a chart
untold vortex
do you has link π
leaden hare
of course!
untold vortex
leaden hare
Duo boon combination
https://imgur.com/EhAnxYL
main osprey
Oooh, that's pretty and useful!
leaden hare
The funny thing is, I make this chart bc I think I'll need it
but after I complete everything, I memorized almost every combination lol
untold vortex
the brain works in weird ways like that ^_^
leaden hare
btw according to wiki, Ares and Zeus duo works with any revenge boons
That means a core boon from Zeus, a core boon from Ares and a revenge boon from Aphrodite also gives you the duo boon, right?
leaden hare
I'm thinking about adding this to the picture, because I made a post at imgur but the link took this pic directly to here
turbid arch
Here is me hoping that the upcoming update will give us the remaining Duo Boons.
Honestly, nerfing Tight Deadline and Benefits Package + Alle the remaining duo boons
main osprey
Between every God?
turbid arch
That would be a patch for me.
We do not even miss that many.
Zeus for example is only lacking one with Aphrodite.
Aphrodite only with Demeter and Zeus
Artemis only with Dionysus
turbid arch
TWO Duo Boons between all gods?
TRIPLE Boons?
Honest to god, I could go for some triple boons.
In a way, Iced Feast/Scintilating Wine is already a triple boon, so to speak.
main osprey
Hermes duo boons. Just makes your normal boons faster. If you get the Hermes/Zeus duo it removes all the internal cooldowns that limit your damage
turbid arch
zeus should not have internal cooldowns in the first place imo
cunning urchin
I've noticed when doing RI4 runs that . . . a lot of Lord Hermes's boons are less than stellar.
turbid arch
It's true.
turbid arch
The only truly good ones are extra dashes, dodge chance, dodge chance on wrath, flurry cast, quick reload and his legendaries.
Situationally extra AS on attack and special.
Movement Speed and Drift Dash are trash more often than not
which does not stop him from offering them all the time.
main osprey
And most of them aren't good unless they're epic, and barely passable as rare
turbid arch
Also that
cunning urchin
Greatest Reflex is the #1 reason I use Persuasion for Malphon.
weak moat
extra dashes are always nice even with RI4 yeah?
cunning urchin
I had to fight the MM Dynamic Duo this morning with Malphon with RI4 and no extra dashes lol. Thankfully I had a Lucky Tooth.
Extra dashes are always nice, yeah.
cunning urchin
Hmmm. Quite honestly, anything that is not Greatest Reflex or at least Greater Evasion lol.
I guess Second Wind can kind of work, too.
weak moat
fair
turbid arch
It also depends on the weapon I guess.
In all of todays attempts, I would have loved to see faster attacks from Hermes.
Did not see it once.
chrome field
what is titans blood used for
main osprey
|| upgrading weapons ||
chrome field
where do i access that menu
chrome field
when? i have 1
main osprey
1 what?
tepid ridge
1 weapon I imagine? Just keep doing runs with the most recently unlocked weapon and the game will give you the ability to buy the next one with ||cthonic keys||.
chrome field
1 titan blood
main osprey
how many weapons have you unlocked?
chrome field
5
main osprey
once you have all 6, you'll be able to upgrade them
chrome field
got it thanks
main osprey
you might have to do a run after you unlock the last before it updates though, just a heads up
And thus I continue fighting the final boss with as little help from those annoying gods as possible (Hermes is cool though)
Shades I hate it when he spams skulls
nope :/
main osprey
like, 6 skulls in 10 seconds
and I can only block so many
and sometimes I dodge them instead of block them, which means I still have to worry about them (I've submitted it in a bug report, dw)
sudden dagger
A lot of my runs lately all turned into cast builds
Thinking about how to look for other scaling damage, besides casts
Lately on here I've seen a bunch of dash strike chaos boons
main osprey
yeah!
torn wasp
I really hope we get some news on the update around the 10th
I'm hype and I wanna do a run every day till the update comes
main osprey
tepid trail
guys what's the best way to farm darkness?
raw violet
chaos
main osprey
do you have the pact of punishment?
tepid trail
yep
main osprey
^^
okay
beat the game on any heat
then play on 0 heat
focus chaos for darkness boons
also use the swirly-darkness weapon if you can
tepid trail
yep i've been doing that and i didnt gain any darkness boons from him this past 3 runs
main osprey
fated persuasion Β―_(γ)_/Β―
raw violet
yeah, chaos and FP are the key
tepid trail
rolled so much times too but didnt get it π¦
raw violet
main osprey
yup
tepid trail
jeebuz
raw violet
buy ixions whenever you can at wells
tepid trail
18 minutes clear time too
main osprey
gotta go fast
earnest ravine
Also forcing Posidien is a good idea, if you can.
main osprey
yee
raw violet
look at troves
earnest ravine
He has a LOT of farming boons.
raw violet
yeah, i've naturally seen him show up in all my farming runs but it's not a bad idea
main osprey
troves are good
tepid trail
alright well ill start my run now
raw violet
if you feel comfortable completing a run with minimal boons, poseidon is not a bad choice
troves are amazing, with just a few chaos boons they can easily net you a couple hundred
earnest ravine
And if you have access to the Shady companion, that's even More free stuff.
raw violet
troves do not benefit from poseidon, fyi, i don't think
but poseidon will boost the boss darkness drops
yeah, shady too
it's small but every bit counts
my best run probably had each shady giving around 100+ darkness
torn wasp
I want Hades to give you boons that have a heavy upside but a heavy downside
Like the actual god himself not the game
I feel like that'd be a cool way to intertwine his character into the gameplay
cunning urchin
Hades giving you boons makes no real sense.
He gives you the Pact of Punishment. So there's that.
That's more in line with his character anyway.
torn wasp
Yeah, I know, but the Pact is all downsides
"Feh, you actually picked up this boon... Choose wisely, boy. It could mean your end if you're not careful."
He's toying him with him
cunning urchin
Not true. The bounties you get are also from Hades.
tepid trail
killed hydra still no sign of chaos
raw violet
if anything his boons would be like...Boon of Chores: everytime you break a vase, you have to pay with your own obol allowance
torn wasp
They could just be downsides for the sake of downsides but I just think it'd be fun
main osprey
so...kinda like the pact of punishment, but randomized?
restive solar
Boons exist to help zagreus escape, which hades is explicitly against
And chaos already covers downsides for upside
peak iron
Hades is way too tsundere to help you escape in any way
Directly
"The feel when you say screw it, I have so much HP, I don't need mechanics"
main osprey
320 isn't that much. now, 500, that's something fun
:3
nice job though, for real :D
peak iron
It is plenty when you've got arthur + DL + whatever that boon that Athena gives you that gives you +HP on DD
main osprey
ooh, yeah
peak iron
Literally didn't dodge anything on purpose, just DPS'd
The most braindead Hades fight of all time
BUT IT WAS CLOSE
cunning urchin
Hades is definitely not tsundere.
sudden dagger
@main osprey per your instructions, why is it important to clear on any heat first before starting the farming run?
raw violet
Cause bosses will give chunks of darkness instead of bounty items
raw violet
Namely Hades. He gives the biggest single payout in the game.
main osprey
I just lost to Than, 51 to 30
there were 81 enemies in that room
(Elysium, so some doubled up, yes)
also, Re: hitting both of the Champions at the start with a companion--|| Meg's || AoE showed up over both of them, but only hit Theseus
...I just found a way to stunlock Asterius (temporarily)
void granite
How do people build their Rail? I have to unlock hazard shot and am looking for general suggestions, usually enjoy going water gun with Poseidon
Oh How @main osprey
main osprey
there's a certain corner (one of the far right ones) where I was standing with the shield's charged shot, spamming it constantly. for probably a quarter of his health he didn't do anything
DANGIT that's what I get for tabbing so much during a boss fight
Theseus got me
void granite
oh nooooooooo
void granite
the zeus ones are rough cause they're so random
one day I'll get there, but currently it seems crazy and unreachable for that much heat π
main osprey
definitely
mind you
before today, the highest heat I'd even attempted was 9
and the highest I'd cleared was 5
a lot of the heat options just make it a little bit harder
void granite
WAIT YOU WENT FROM 9 TO 32?
void granite
π€£
main osprey
I would've gone from 9 to 41 (following Nyaa's comp) but I can't do Tight Deadlines yet
void granite
no? why not?
void granite
lol fair
main osprey
so I still move a bit slowly between rooms
once I practice with TD I'll add it in to the higher heat attempts
void granite
well I wish you luck!
main osprey
thanks ^.^
void granite
any gun suggestions before I go do that?
main osprey
Hmm
try spread fire and rocket
for boons...
Ares is good for the rocket
since it has time for doom to trigger
void granite
I'm torn between fated persuasion and authority for trying to get boons overall or just aiming for the last hammer I need (hazard shot)
main osprey
I generally just stick to persuasion, totally up to you
void granite
yeah I love spread fire, and usually have Poseidon on the attack
main osprey
yeah
normally I'd say Athena attack, but last time I did Athena with spread fire it didn't go great (reported it, looked like a bug)
void granite
I rarely do persuasion, but after I just did routine I didn't mind missing authority
I rarely if ever use athena attack/ special, basically just use her for dash and sometimes call
what was the bug?
main osprey
it didn't seem to always deflect
cunning urchin
You'd want Hunter Dash + Deadly Strike for Spread Fire for max damage.
20 and below feels so relaxing. I can just get whatever build I want and mess around with it.
main osprey
lmao
dry ember
Can I get back to the innocent days of like one week ago?
cunning urchin
46 is like . . . please be at least a rare Attack? No? Common? Okay, then . . .
void granite
oh I'm sure, that's how I feel on my solo account vs the one I do with my friend. Bad streak on my file, 24 streak on the one we share
main osprey
I got a Duo on my first run with limited boons...
void granite
yaaaaaas very nice
main osprey
I then died to Lernie, but y'know >:3
dry ember
Which weapon?
main osprey
shield
I'm really fast with it Β―_(γ)_/Β―
this past run that I almost got through elysium, I had the quick charge and charged shot, plus +21% attack from hermes
cunning urchin
Why did you try the pacts I used for Malphon on Aegis? lol
dry ember
I'm confused
dry ember
Oh I see lol
main osprey
I like crit flourish on chaos shield, since it can proc so many times
and athena attack always feels good to me
dry ember
I mean them Pacts should also work for shield
Maybe one point on HS and one fewer on CP.
cunning urchin
Maybe. I wouldn't copy-paste a setup that was for a different weapon lol.
main osprey
it wasn't on purpose lol
that's been one of my setups for shield for a while
wait did I actually just straight-up copy the Mewmew special
accidentally?
cunning urchin
I'm talking about the pacts.
main osprey
LOL
cunning urchin
They added them sometime this year.
I think.
I would've gone from 9 to 41 (following [Nyaanyaa]'s comp) but I can't do Tight Deadlines yet
You should actually practice TD2 first before you add the more difficult ones.
main osprey
yeah, I mentioned that
cunning urchin
TD2 is easier at high heat than putting the 5 points in something else.
main osprey
once I practice with TD I'll add it in to the higher heat attempts
dry ember
Put on the timer brother
main osprey
.< I will
cunning urchin
Right. I'm saying do it the other way around lol. As in, your high heat attempts should all have TD2 and keep the worst pacts low or at 0.
dry ember
You will conquer new heights soon. Good luck.
main osprey
thank you ^.^
I think for right now I'm gonna keep TD off, because that's not the kind of challenge I'm looking for
but I'll keep that in mind
hmm, a thought
what do you think about being able to save pact comps?
cunning urchin
Potentially useful depending on implementation.
dry ember
Would be neat but probably won't happen
Currently save point is implemented at the entrance to the courtyard from bedroom.
Saving different pact options means adding not only more save points but also a semi different type of save point.
main osprey
no no, I mean like saving loadouts
dry ember
Yeah that's what I meant
dry ember
Yeah. Maybe it's easy to implement, maybe not. Idk. Of course I live the idea. It makes switching weapons so much easier.
But, would SGG cater to a dozen people? I think not
main osprey
well, I'll drop it in feedback so they see it
cunning urchin
TFW food gets more upvotes than my Malphon feedback. 
cunning urchin
I'm pretty sure I lost at least half the readers along the way in my post lol.
main osprey
it's not an issue I've run in to Β―_(γ)_/Β―
I'll test it out next time I run fists
dry ember
I'll admit I haven't read yours lol.
cunning urchin
Imagine being the Malphon Heat record holder and no one reads your feedback on Malphon.
main osprey
I read it
dry ember
Imagine being the Malphon Heat record holder and no one reads your feedback on Malphon.
Yeah, N=1 though.
sudden dagger
maybe this is obvious, but if I'm going for dash-strike synergies on the zag sword, the flat 90 damage from world splitter seems like it would be better than the +30% dash-strike, except maybe that it hits twice
main osprey
actually N=2, with one for and one against
dry ember
Dash strike doesn't work that way though
The 90 damage is not carried through via dash strike
sudden dagger
too good to be true
dry ember
Hammer modifications do not work the same way Boons do
Sorry :D
Double Edge is still dash strike king for sword
sudden dagger
i am kind of regretting going dash strike tbh. the buttons are hard to press at the same time π
but it is fun trying
ooh just realized it's going up against shadow strike as well
dry ember
I personally bind Dash to B and Attack to A
cunning urchin
World Splitter doesn't affect Dash-Strike. Dash-Strike does 50 base damage, so 2 hits will be 100 base damage. Then that's multiplied by % modifiers and crits.
dry ember
It's easy to spam for me, my hand is by no means large.
sudden dagger
there are also the big buttons on the back of the controller that are duplicates of some of a b x y
sudden dagger
oh good point
I still haven't seen a good attack buff yet and I'm in elysium so I better get on that
dry ember
Which aspect are you on?
cunning urchin
Don't necessarily need to. Spamming Nova Smash is perfectly legit.
sudden dagger
oh yeah and I can't use the attack button for another chamber
i
i've been spamming a lot of nova smash - doom. I'm on zaspect
zag-spect?
main osprey
lol
sudden dagger
stygius zaspect
dry ember
See what?
cunning urchin
Your stupid ideas.
dry ember
You being a spoiled brat complaining about people not updooting your feedback?
cunning urchin
My feedback is a lot more important than "Zaspect should be a thing."
Philistine.
naive tusk
Hi 
cunning urchin
Hi!
dry ember
Peach
errant narwhal
lets keep it civil here, okay?
naive tusk
That was a bit βoofβ, know what am I saying?
cunning urchin
We're joking. 
:3
turbid arch
Guys, if you hear a weird noise, a loud hollow echo coming out of nowhere, lingering on then passing away
That was my not internal but external screaming
traveling across the globe.
Soon in a town nearby your place as well.
cunning urchin
What happened to you?
naive tusk
I know, but someone who doesnβt know how close you two are might see that and feel the atmosphere is tense. Try to keep the jokes more friendly and less toxic-sounding, k?
turbid arch
I feel like at this point it is hard to explain the things that happen to someone playing this game.
cunning urchin
Hai hai.
dry ember
Both mods are typing. I'm scared. Back to discussing Zaspect instead of dissing each other.
turbid arch
Imagine having a promising run and then Ares appearing to just ruin it all by not fitting in.
So you get into a meme mood.
And by meme mood, I mean "getting close to losing your sanity"
errant narwhal
my bad! its a bit hard to tell what's friendly ribbing and what's not from the outside when it gets a bit aggresive, as peach said
turbid arch
So you decide to make a high heated run with Ares work.
obtuse lagoon
hello! :)
regarding Poseidon ||what should I do to finish the fishing thing with him in the fate's list? I've fished more than 50 fishes, more than 100 retries but I can't finish it||
thank you!
turbid arch
Out of spite and out of afforementioned Sanity kicking in.
Now, imaginge an Ares run, right?
cunning urchin
You were right to say something. My apologies.
turbid arch
But then Ares stops showing up.
cunning urchin
It's the dog's fault. I'm innocent.
naive tusk
Aw, see? Thereβs an example right there with alma 
errant narwhal
@obtuse lagoon, he will eventually say something to you about it and the prophecy will be complete. just keep doing runs with his keepsake!
main osprey
Guys, important question. Chaos has blinded me. Do I go to chamber 1, 2, or 3?
cunning urchin
Yes. I, too, love me.
naive tusk
I like your quarreling as long as it feels as a kids cartoon, not as a ranked-pvp-moba
dry ember
For like 3 more types of fish.
obtuse lagoon
@obtuse lagoon, he will eventually say something to you about it and the prophecy will be complete. just keep doing runs with his keepsake!
@errant narwhal thank you! it's only 4 remaining items in the list and he has all the β€οΈ possible, I was wondering it was a bug
errant narwhal
just bad rng perhaps, those convos might take a while to trigger
obtuse lagoon
nice
main osprey
powercouple
obtuse lagoon
btw, I haven't catched some fish types yet, does it have something to do with the time you catch them?
main osprey
:3
errant narwhal
took me so long to get the last heart for zeus and artemis....
main osprey
Epic Divine Strike on Guan Yu
errant narwhal
yeah, it has to do with both timing and location
the first fish on the list are from ||Chaos||
cunning urchin
@turbid arch that sounds painful, but have you had Speeder Slam-Dancers spawn right on top of you and explode immediately?
cunning urchin
At least I'm not alone in my suffering.
turbid arch
This is high heat we are talking about.
Ney
This is Benefits Package we are talking about.
Does not need to be a high heated run, the masochism starts there
cunning urchin
The only good thing I can say is that they had Bruiser + Speeder and not Slugger + Speeder.
turbid arch
Slugger Speeder means that you can at least take them out in a reasonable amount of time
True horror are the rooms where you have bruiser shadowclone Pests and Numb Skulls
cunning urchin
Assuming you get a chance to actually see them on the screen before they murder you.
turbid arch
How the game developers thing that giving you bruiser numbskulls in some rooms for THREE WAVES would be a good idea
is beyond me
God knows, I have been playing this game for over a year, but nothing honest to god infuriates me as much as Benefits Package.
cunning urchin
Bruiser + Cloner is not a combo that should be allowed to happen lol.
On anything really.
It multiplies the problem.
turbid arch
There should be no combinations at all.
BP should not give two effects
Bruiser should not be one of the effects.
Make it a 3-4 heat one rank pact of punishment and it would be fine
dry ember
Yes, I've been saying
raw violet
maybe if you two spent as much time complaining about BP combos as you did playing the game, you'd have less issues
main osprey
oof
raw violet
JUST KIDDING
main osprey
that's savage bro
raw violet
ITS JOKES
dry ember
Bruiser is not only overtuned but also bad design choice
weak moat
ROASTED live
dry ember
Oh God the whole crew is here
raw violet
i couldn't let you all go down in mod flames alone
main osprey
right where one of the heads was
cunning urchin
@raw violet what's the highest heat you've cleared again?
cunning urchin
30-what was it?
raw violet
photoshop crutch is tough
turbid needle
I always thought bp2 just gives more enemies buffs but instead its still a limited amount but with 2 now
dry ember
Lol you think I need shop?
silver solstice
Fox you cleared 57 heat?
dry ember
MSPaint is where it's at bro
raw violet
paint crutch is tough
silver solstice
or is that a joke
raw violet
lol
turbid arch
The thing about BP is not only that it gives armored enemies extra effects
dry ember
Lol no
turbid arch
it also artifically increases the number of armored enemies
raw violet
i gave too much credit there i suppose
dry ember
Disclaimer: it's joke.
raw violet
bp certainly feels like it increases armored enemies but i can't say if that's true
turbid needle
I like the idea of bp but it feels like doodoo I agree
turbid needle
just want more difficult enemies/patterns
but its just the same guys but more annoying
dry ember
I think BP is fun. Just one particular perk being Bruiser being particularly problematic
turbid needle
bruiser is the one that makes their lifebar go big right
weak moat
makes em become W I D E
turbid needle
oh
dry ember
I can't stand it
dry ember
Yeah no swearies please
sudden dagger
Ok in the snakestone and satyr matchup
weak moat
demeter on hades spear isn't performing too bad honestly
sudden dagger
If you focus one, you get poisoned or lasered by the other
turbid needle
but all I wanted to say is that I'd love there to be some kind of heat setting that gives you new enemies
sudden dagger
seems like one strategy is to find a spot the snakestone can't hit, camp out there and stunlock a satyr
main osprey
someone was talking about something similar earlier in #h1-discussion , wanting more enemy types
sudden dagger
but sometimes there are multiple satyrs
turbid needle
yeah I think it helps in keeping things fresh
sudden dagger
and sometimes the room doesn't have very many shielded spots from the snakestone. so Idk
turbid needle
but its lots of work too...
hm what I usually do is dash between them unless its the big room then I just stay out of one guys range
turbid needle
the same happend to me lmao
main osprey
I'm using Guan Yu
leaden hare
That happened to me in Tartarus
turbid needle
I survied though you can do it too!
sudden dagger
if you dash between them, you are trying to keep both stunlocked right?
sudden dagger
Whoo gl @main osprey
main osprey
o7
turbid needle
yeah I usually always smack them back and forth
main osprey
let's...gooooooo
turbid needle
satyr is the one I usually try to take out first bc poison is annyoing and lasers are easier to dodge I think
leaden hare
I do that too
turbid needle
but im not a pro or anything
main osprey
lmao I just dashed around Asterius back and forth while spamming spin attack
turbid needle
it feels like snakestones have a massive startup on their laser so you can whack them once and then ignore them for a few secs
sudden dagger
good idea with the snakestones
i am usually very scared by their startup, and run away rather than attack
but i should try attacking
leaden hare
What is the nastiest call for Theseus to use?
turbid needle
zeus or ares imo
main osprey
Artemis and Demeter are the easiest
leaden hare
I had a hard time with Aphrodite's before
main osprey
dangit, imgur load
leaden hare
I think the link must contain .png
main osprey
yee
dry ember
There is a victory title for that
main osprey
yeah, I think i've gotten it
eh, normally I only play at 5
it was only a few runs earlier today that I did 32
dry ember
Go big or go home.
naive tusk
Woof woof to you too, Foxy πΆ
turbid arch
Orpheus
is goddamn trolling me
I have learned to play the lyre.
Spend the better half of the evening spamming E in front of that old thing.
HE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE THE ACKNOWLEDGING DIALOGUE WITH ME OVER IT!
turbid arch
It is my last fated prophecy quest too
Nyaan, I went and died multiple times, trying to force that blasted dialogue into existance
Also, a lot of dialogue was gated behind the Nyx/Chaos event for some reason, which was kinda weird.
Like, I remember Ares having asked me weeks ago for me to give his regards to Nyx.
And only after bringing them together, Zagreus finally did it
sand cape
i have to say nyx is way more beatiful than aphrodite
turbid arch
Different kinds of beautiful I would say.
novel tapir
Hey does anyone know if duo boons count as boons for both gods?
main osprey
for what purpose?
novel tapir
the mirror upgrade that gives you a damge bonus for each different god boon you have
I have the option to replace my attack but im not sure how it works
novel tapir
I would have no artemis boons except the duo boon
novel tapir
Yeah but I don't remember my damage numbers from before
main osprey
fair
@naive tusk do you happen to know? If Duo boons count as a boon from both gods, for the purposes of the mirror talent?
novel tapir
It doesn't count
main osprey
ah, you tested it?
novel tapir
I just checked the boon bonuses
main osprey
aight
novel tapir
hang on let me link the ss
3% for each god
sorry each different god
I have dion demeter and athena boons
and an artemis duo
cunning urchin
@turbid arch it seems weird, the way the dialogues progress now, most people would probably never see most of the dialogue in 1.0? There's replay value for us, but I'm sure a lot of people would just get out 1-2 times and consider it done?
naive tusk
As far as I know, it counts as bonus from both gods
naive tusk
So, let's say you have Heartbreak Strike, Divine Dash and Spent Spirit. If you sold Divine Dash, you will still get a +6% bonus from Athena because Spent Spirit is considered to be both Aphrodite's and Athena's.
That thing only shows how much bonus you will get from each god, not the current total bonus.
raw violet
@turbid arch @cunning urchin yeah I think I was clocking close to 150-200 runs before I started capping on conversations and this is with giving nectars/ambrosia whenever I can
raw violet
it's a fair time frame
cunning urchin
It shows +6% because that's what the rank of the talent is, yes.
turbid arch
It's less about the time frame, it's more about feeling weird.
naive tusk
@novel tapir Yes!
novel tapir
Actually
turbid arch
To go with this specific example, Ares has been asking me to talk to Nyx literally weeks ago
novel tapir
is it 24% or 30%
naive tusk
30%
turbid arch
Months even perhaps. I started the safefile shortly after Nighty Night started
novel tapir
the wording makes it sound like 24
naive tusk
You have Demeter, Dionysus, Athena, Artemis and Hermes.
turbid arch
And just now, because I finished the Chaos/Nyx line am I finally able to say that to her?
raw violet
it's just taking zag weeks to muster up the courage for that convo
turbid arch
There are other quests like that, Artemis fangirling for Achilles as an example that are not gated like that
naive tusk
I will be afk now because lunchtime! But I hope that clears it up
cunning urchin
I get new dialogues with Hypnos all the time now on high heat because I actually die in the early biomes now lol.
raw violet
right, the convo gates seem to extend the number of runs you have to do to hear them significantly it seems
turbid arch
Yeah, with Hypnos, it makes sense, you die, cause of death triggers the conversation.
cunning urchin
Yeah, I also see some new Olympian dialogues because of that.
cunning urchin
Congratulations!
sterile portal
Congrats!
turbid needle
Legendary? That would imply you got the common and the rare fish too? And here I am with absolutely no fish at all.
sad noises
turbid needle
Ooooh. Yeah got that one after so many tries as well. Gratz.
main osprey
I've only gotten the rare fish from chaos
turbid needle
To have ANY fish from chaos that is my goal currently in game since I completed all the prophecies and maxed out everything except Fated Authority from the Mirror of Night.
main osprey
Red. Shade. Red. Shade. Red! Shade! RED! SHADE! >:3
...on a totally separate note, I just got a perfect Asterius miniboss fight without moving
sterile portal
Oh wow how?
main osprey
shield with pos attack and charged shot
naive tusk
Harpy Feather Duster and Tight Deadline don't go well together π
magic dagger
Harpy Feather Duster and Tight Deadline don't go well together π
heretic π«
sudden dagger
You just have to be as efficient as Dusa
dry ember
What do you use Duster for, Peach? Honest question.
dry ember
Also @naive tusk I like the feedback. That's how Zeus aspect should really be imo. I was surprised when it did not work that way. If the zone the disc creates is too effective then adding an expiration timer would be a neat fix. I hope the feedback gets implemented. Currently Chaos is stealing the spotlight from other aspects.
dusting
I hate you.
naive tusk
The light bulb turned on when I was talking with the user who posted the feedback before the one I posted hehe π‘
I arrived at Elysium, needing lots of healing after Asphodel. I wasn't seeking a particular god boon at the moment so I thought "this wouldn't hurt" so I picked it
It really helped with finding lots of food π₯
dry ember
Did you spend too much time hunting them pots?
magic dagger
Tisiphone best girl
don't mess with the urns, it takes too long
just take the duster and go
naive tusk
Glad I had Tidal Dash + Epic Greatest Reflex so I could break jars on the move lol
dry ember
Nice. Awaken your inner Link.
naive tusk
Finally someone made a reference to him!
dry ember
@magic dagger what? Tisiphone of all people???
I want a mod where Zag screams Hiyaah huh huh haiyahh everytime you attack something
main osprey
Aspect of Link when?
untold vortex
main osprey
Hylian Shield, baby
dry ember
when Nintendo releases their copy right, which is basically never
magic dagger
@magic dagger what? Tisiphone of all people???
She oozes charm and charisma
and is fairly graceful and elegant
untold vortex
The hidden 5th aspect Pog
magic dagger
The hidden 5th aspect Pog
4th shield aspect
untold vortex
Ahh right my brain went 5th assuming there was already another aspect on the works 
main osprey
This is extra funny considering the discussion in #off-topic-discussion right now
neon fiber
tisiphone romance when
untold vortex
So obviously is we're gonna get a link aspect their has to be one for every weapon :p
naive tusk
Tisiphone fan club discussion suits more #h1-discussion than #off-topic-discussion but I get your point
magic dagger
Tis: MURRDEERRRRRR?
Zag: No. this is ambrosia. am- bro- sia
dry ember
I would love to have an explanation for why Tis talks that way.
Ik this is more spoiler territory
but still, just quick aside.
magic dagger
first time I met alecto I thought "oh good it's not tis. I don't know who she is but at least she doesn't have a skullface"
and then she threw buzzsaws at me D:
dry ember
Buzzsaw is the worst because I can never see it
The stage is dark, the saw is similar color, zzz
untold vortex
Alecto is a booli with her buzzsaws, she even calls you redblood 
dry ember
agreed Alecto is meanie
neon fiber
iirc tisiphone's reason is her just being very, very devoted to her job
to the point of obsession
i also posted a fun tidbit on #h1-story-discussion about it
dry ember
erm link me? i'm too lazy to scroll up haha
magic dagger
wintry plume
for shameeEEE
FOR THE REVOLUTION
neon fiber
alecto is rude
also painful to fight the first times
or in EM1 if she decideds to throw several beyblades while tisi does her AoE attack
wintry plume
she's the most difficult fury for me
neon fiber
she can be one of the worse ones to fight yeah
iirc it's generally agreed she's the hardest
tisi does have her room gimmick but i've found it more often than not works against her than on her favor
dry ember
yeah to me Alecto = Meg > Tis
wintry plume
and the louts, and the traps, and the final permarage, and the always present projectiles, gurl
neon fiber
yeah the beyblades are annoying if you don't have an athena boon on you
wintry plume
for me Meg is the easiest, then Tisiphone then Alecto
wintry plume
i can manage the beyblades, it's the red thingies i have trouble with
neon fiber
the wot?
wintry plume
it's not like i find tisi hard! But i'm more used to Meg and sometimes the smaller rooms are a bit of an handicap, that's it
the projectiles, the red volley attacks
lunge and whip arc
neon fiber
can't you break those like any other fury's?
wait isn't the whip + lounge one of tisi's moves?
wintry plume
yeah i can- oh
uh, ehm... right
i can break them
but they're fast
Alecto: Lunge, Whip arc, Build Rage, Lightning chase and Whip shot
Tisiphone: Whip lasso, Whip combo, Slow beam, Lightning
dry ember
after the whip, tis will always lunge forward
sudden dagger
||I didn't know that hades could make all the amporae explode...||
unless I did that
dry ember
When he summons new ones, the old ones go boom
mighty ermine
he also used to explode them immediately with a wave after summoning them, a while back
sudden dagger
i don't much care for his parenting
sudden dagger
Would I be right in imagining that chaos +att% boons are not great on rail and fists
dull dust
do u wanna punch ppl harder
raw violet
it depends on the build and aspect
but generally the dash attack boost, all else being equal, is probably better
i'd still be happy with attack some cases
raw violet
even common chaos attack boons still outpace most other types of upgrades
sudden dagger
let's say I got a chaos +60% attack, and hammer +50%; the game would add them to get 110% attack, not 60%, then compounded with 40% of that
raw violet
if you're even using the attack
as far as I understand, all percent boosts are additive
i've heard chaos boons might act differently so I'm not 100% sure on that
sudden dagger
Alright
Also, my time clearing when I was trying to go relatively fast was around 40 minutes. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717151251330105347/719733437271113738/Hades_00046.png
clearly some room for optimization
hearty warren
Hey, the wiki says it's possible to give ambrosia to artemis, but I can't find anything online and I can't find a way to do it. Anybody know?
tepid ridge
Iβve been told you have to get ||duo dialogue, possibly with Zeus|| to trigger it?
sudden dagger
thanks for the tags π
sudden dagger
i got the lock and I enjoy the myster
hearty warren
several times
sudden dagger
My guess is that it might be gated behind other quests / things that Artemis is interested in. I suspect that I have to make progress on ||reuniting Patroclus and Achilles|| first, but it's just a hunch and I don't really want to know
hearty warren
sigh, I guess I'll try
crazy how hard it is to use a single ambrosia, I've been dedicated to it for hours and hours. Even after getting everything done for one quest, I needed dialogue from one specific character to advance it and it finally happened after like 10 runs
sudden dagger
I know the feels
as someone on here says a lot: the solution to most barriers in this game is to do more runs
which will also make it easier to move forward on other sidequests
hearty warren
it's a lot of runs tho lol
I kinda feel like having experience in the genre punishes me a bit in that way, it only took me a handful of tries before I was starting to consistently go the distance and win, and every run took longer
and more importantly, characters went dead silent until I started trying to grind for artemis's legendary boon, and I kept not getting any boons from her so I'd sudoku in asphodel if I didn't get enough and suddenly everyone had dialogue again
sterile portal
So wait, Asterius can't cause rubble to fall in the champs fight? but he can in his solo fight?
main osprey
I don't think the pillars can be broken in the champ fight
sterile portal
alright, well that's it for Wriste's shackle rubble strat
weak moat
what's that
the shackles would be for speeding up elysium and making the miniboss bull fight better
we already knew there's no rubble in the theseus fight
hearty warren
You could swap out the trinket for backstab damage or something after hydra, right?
weak moat
@cunning urchin so if I were to attempt to make use of talos at fairly high heat (maybe 45ish?) how would you suggest I go about it?
@hearty warren that directed at me?
or just a question in general
sterile portal
Gotcha, thought it was a boss fight as a whole
and Wriste i'd suggest sticking with athena attack on fists, especially given it's innate decent damage bonus
weak moat
I'm guessing athena, but I'm just fishing for thoughts
sterile portal
maybe look for aphrodite on special to apply weak when pulling them in? Or artemis for damage?
weak moat
hard to say
with talos I think the correct move is to exclusively use the dash-upper
since the yoink leaves you super vulnerable
weak moat
hard to say - obviously if I could choose my special it'd be something ideal
weak moat
also we need to get someone on high heat zag shield
what in the world does that look like
sterile portal
Probably Dread Throw or something wild like Charged shot
weak moat
you could be right
explosive return too
idk about starting with a hammer though
do we build for the attack/bull rush or the special though
sterile portal
I think that because the special is so much worse than Chaos aspect
the only viable reason to take Zag would be build for attacking
and getting in close
maybe an aphrodite attack + artemis dash to play how I used to play shield, with a ton of dash strike mixed with attack spam
Get the double attack no knockback, or pick up artemis on charged shot etc. etc.
disciple of artemis might even be best
sorry if i'm getting a lil carried away lol
weak moat
no sweat
native ether
The Pillars in the EM3 fight with Theseus and Asterius can be broken by Asterius. The only pillars immune are the ones with spectators on them.
He breaks the pillars in his solo fight as well but they regenerate
sterile portal
But those pillars in EM3 don't drop rubble
native ether
As far as I can tell there's no rubble, yeah.
sterile portal
which makes shackles less useful
native ether
Pillar damage with Shackle honestly isnt even enough to warrant running it for that purpose.