Then DR is another thing
#h1-builds-and-combat
ivory turtle
S h e e s h
proper furnace
For non ME builds take for example any arti build
proper furnace
Where one
Her curse is a t2
And 2
Hunter's mark is the worst PS enabler curse
ivory turtle
This is a fantastic choice for a pom
last dirge
Pstatus damage is harder to get without specific stuff
Turn it on for like Low Tolerance sure
But that isnt even that good of a build
proper furnace
FF also starts working by the first boon you pick
last dirge
Yeah
proper furnace
And ends up being only 15% dmg less
last dirge
It's just global damage that you get for free. Free scaling.
Further progress/gods = more damage
Like for Arti again pstatus might help for normal enemies yes but where are you getting the 2nd curse from? No synergy there. Pdash would just consume the mark most likely. Crits are already often overkill. And on bosses it just doesnt last.
So it's basically down to Dio Aphro and Demeter
Maybe you could do a pstatus build with pdash and crystal clarity or something
That's still a lot more specific boons needed.
proper furnace
Rip runs where glaciar glare doesn't appear
last dirge
If you time dashes right, maybe
If you are skilled with it, it can be pretty good
There are better Hermes boons though still
ivory turtle
I might just take swift flourish then
last dirge
I'd rather have Swift Strike or Hyper Rush or Greatest Reflex
proper furnace
Honestly quick recovery window is super lenoent
last dirge
True
proper furnace
And whats your third choice
ivory turtle
Greater haste
proper furnace
This is styx
last dirge
Ah okay
ivory turtle
This is right before dad lol
last dirge
Just get recovery
last dirge
Swift flourish doesnt effect dash upper
last dirge
Yeah dash upper is it's own thing
Annoying thing I noticed last night too with Colossus Knuckle
Not active during dash strikes
I noticed because I had 6 dashes
Meaning it probably also isnt active during dash uppers
proper furnace
Yeah both swift buffs barely affect things
last dirge
It's good on gilga attack for standing strikes though
proper furnace
Flourish has the funny chiron interaction at least
ivory turtle
I mean unless you're playing Arthur
vagrant crane
okay fellas
last dirge
But also doesnt effect dash strikes
last dirge
Howso
vagrant crane
because i got a 657 off ice wine nem lol
ive had multiple shackle starts turn into cast builds which just had really good pace
proper furnace
Nem is a castpect as much as hades spear is
last dirge
That's just luck and pace
vagrant crane
well like
nem has the damage to actually kill enemies before you get the funny cast build up
it's kinda like achilles
if achilles was about 150% of additive worse
tight basin
because i got a 657 off ice wine nem lol
To be fair
Epic rd
But also ice wine is pretty good in general lmao
last dirge
That's my concern with measuring speedruns as "the strongest run or best build". You're going for speed and without routing that means you lose time doing some other stuff often. I do understand you can still do IGT stuff and manipulate anvils or Eury or whatever, but your aim is still not the most powerful build.
Beside the point though. Yeah sure
If you agree Lucifer is a castpect
Because I had a ice wine run with it
Wasnt that fast lmao but I see potential
I started with epic Trippy
vagrant crane
Epic rd
i had an ice wine build which was gonna be like 715 until i died with grey +dash
last dirge
I was going for hangover beams
ivory turtle
Wait hold up you can manipulate anvils?
vagrant crane
tbf though that run had two grasps lmfao
last dirge
It just had lots of clear power and synergized somewhat
Yeah. You just buy the anvil first
Quit if you dont like the result
There are a few things you can do to change results
ivory turtle
Oooooh
proper furnace
Just do anything believing that you know what you are changing
last dirge
You get a different roll each time
Really good rng manipulation in Hades is hard
Maybe I should check some videos out for patterns
ivory turtle
Okay so
I need to get bad news... I'm thinking I just run trippy?
Maybe go for ice wine?
proper furnace
Yeah that works
But also you can play like normal and aim for it
Bad news is bugged
ivory turtle
What
ivory turtle
Oooooh
ivory turtle
So non-sticking casts are the best call here?
proper furnace
Yeah
Trippy is probably the best choice if you arent particularly building for it anyways
Cuz beams/slicing without their duos
Are uh
ivory turtle
That makes sense
proper furnace
Also dont forget to have as much rarity increases before taking hermes
Cuz his legendary has 1% base chance
proper furnace
Hermes boons have lower chances in general
Epic boons are 3% for him
(and why god's pride is so good)
ivory turtle
Should I run Legacy then so I have a better chance of getting the legendary?
proper furnace
Yeah
ivory turtle
I'm probably going to run Achilles then for the damage boost
proper furnace
If you jus want the legendary you can just run plume all the way probably
And dont grab a call
ivory turtle
I'd want to force Dio though right?
proper furnace
Bevause it opens second wind
proper furnace
I'd want to force Dio though right?
If you wanna focus on the build then yeah
Do you have hidden shield?
ivory turtle
Yee
proper furnace
Dio caat is bugged on beo
ivory turtle
Oh that would be better wouldn't it
proper furnace
Poms give double the value shown
flint flame
is chiron good for back stab damage
ivory turtle
I'm sorry??
proper furnace
Yup
ivory turtle
Beo is so bugged
proper furnace
Trippy flare first pom is a 120 dmg increase
proper furnace
And also even more funnier
proper furnace
Trippy flare only crits for x2 dmg
proper furnace
2 different convos going on , so chiron is good for backstab damage?
I dont think so
Il rather just use foery oresence ao my attack can do moree dmg to then finish with a volley
Or just a second attack so I'm not stuck in the special animation
flint flame
so fp is better for chiron
proper furnace
At keast I like it more
I've seen people pkay with either
Btw @ivory turtle tripoy flare is hilarious bug wise
Poms are broken specifically 9m beo
Hera which also uses trippy flare can only use mirage shot bug
So you are left to wonder where does the bug even came from
proper furnace
Shield is practically the house of most of the bugs lol
Tiny flare/mirage/trippy poms/cshot being weird
Moat weapons only have like 1 bug or less
And some universal ones
ivory turtle
Oooh scintillating feast could be fun tho
proper furnace
Just get all the zeus boons
ivory turtle
Lol got the duo
I kinda missed legacy ngl
Pride is much better don't get me wrong but legacy is fun for getting wacky builds lol
tight basin
Like they're practically a feature lol
The main "it's not a bug it's a feature" is the mirage one lmao
Trippy beo too ofc
But funny mirage
tight basin
Beo is good without the bugs but mirage shot bug makes it a speed aspect lmao
ivory turtle
Ayyyy I got exclusive access now for some fun times
tight basin
Based
ivory turtle
Ooof
Chaos or eury
I don't have a grasp and it sucks lol
But at the same time my trippy is at base rarity
OH SHOOT
Apparently increasing trippy's rarity actually resets the pom boost to where it should be
That's unfortunate
ivory turtle
Actually I think it might "fix" the bug
I might be wrong here, but when the rarity increases my damage went from 220 to 200 😭
I died :(
vagrant crane
rip
flint flame
guys i'm doing run right now should I take support fire or hunters mark?
chiron bow aspect
vagrant crane
DOOOODGE
flint flame
should I stay near the 4 pillars
vagrant crane
you're kinda screwed unless you either have a decent hp pool or know the attacks
idk just go where dad takes you except don't go to the bottom left part that's super open with no pillar or geometry
tight basin
it do be like that sometimes
flint flame
i was doing good
but
started throwing
btw when hades spawns minions should i focus minions or hades
@tight basin @vagrant crane
point blank shot or sniper shot?
i think chain shot is bad on chiron
i went for sniper shot
vagrant crane
btw when hades spawns minions should i focus minions or hades
just kill adds
flint flame
adds are minions right?
vagrant crane
yea
flint flame
or typo
last dirge
Continuing this here. I havent practiced backstabs in a while but I want to try out a backstab Gilgamesh Deadly Reversal build.
flint flame
does cast not attatch to minion when they have armour, just realised this
vagrant crane
does cast not attatch to minion when they have armour, just realised this
it does
last dirge
Gilga standing strikes have big base damage. Expose will add a lot. You can stack backstab better and have more uptime than first strike too.
vagrant crane
athena dash or poseiden dash
depends
last dirge
Will want some Chaos too
vagrant crane
tdash is immense damage ddash is immense defense
flint flame
im running chiron bow with artemis on special
vagrant crane
idk man i dont play badspects maim is good probably has some kind of idea
flint flame
your saying chiron is bad
last dirge
It just builds bad
last dirge
It's good for new players because it's pretty easy to use well
And doesnt rely on power strikes
flint flame
ppom or heart?
last dirge
Pom probably
vagrant crane
do you need the health?
flint flame
i got 100
last dirge
Are you getting hit lots?
vagrant crane
oh my god this is insane zawg
last dirge
How are you handling damage intake
vagrant crane
the game keeps force feeding me ice wine builds
flint flame
im only in c1
vagrant crane
not that im not down
flint flame
ight
primal geyser
How are you handling damage intake
I take in the damange 
last dirge
Poms early are huge
vagrant crane
im only in c1
c1 has 1 exit
flint flame
im trying to find the ice lord so i can gift her so i can run a defense build
vagrant crane
defense would be athena
flint flame
im going to run chiron, aph attack and dem special
last dirge
Demeter's best boon is her cast
flint flame
to slow minions down
flint flame
i saw it in the pins
last dirge
True
flint flame
plus p status goes brrr
last dirge
Dio would be better here
On special
Then try for Low Tolerance
Increases hangover stack max on weak targets
Chiron hits the cap exactly
Its probably the best Chiron build that actually uses its gimmick
To good effect
If you want Chiron just do that imo
You can also slow down enemies with a Dio boon
So just better
flint flame
i like dio on spec but artemis is also good because of all the crit
last dirge
Yeah but the specials do no dmg
Imo you need like 30 base minimum and I think bow special is lower
flint flame
is hera better than chiron?
tight basin
every other bow is better than chiron
tight basin
% specials on chiron are bad unless you have concentrated volley
last dirge
Arti is good on like gilga attack because it's not that slow, about spear speed, but 60 base damage. Pretty high.
tight basin
assuming you do standing attacks and not dash strikes
flint flame
rn im tryng to get heart rem on chiron
tight basin
Arti can work on like, an exploding launcher spear build, which is like 80 base
the hammer is 50 base
last dirge
Ah okay
tight basin
80 base is charged shot
tight basin
With charged though it definitely works
yeah for sure
also question
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1104618005079539742/image.png?width=917&height=286
how would you format this
last dirge
Arti really struggles for base dmg already
tight basin
because it looks kinda weird
last dirge
Use different headers for weapon and aspect
tight basin
yeah those are different headings
last dirge
Different color then and remove the gap
tight basin
rn im mainly concerned about like the indents and stuff
last dirge
Yeah remove the indent
Make it a dark grey. Just enough that it is immediately different to the eye.
tight basin
all the spacing, font, color, etc will be something i'll do later
i just want a consistent format lol
thanks
last dirge
I do lots of this stuff for modding concepts and I just do something like that as a basic formatting style
Works fine. You can make it more functional if you need.
Kinda suffers if you have many interlocking categories
tight basin
man i'm looking at wmic's eris guide and it looks so much better lmfao
tight basin
i mean yeah but i want to make something easy to read and visually appealing
my guide rn is a bunch of word vomit lmao
last dirge
I used a template here but I filled this in entirely on mobile. This is a shortened version too. Find a template.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RG9odD4-O1QH4qx-_MQcbWY0ROpdLPlCqScn_RL0n5I/edit?usp=drivesdk
All stuff starts that way. Just refine it.
You wanted to do a guide. Its gonna take a few days.
This took me like 9 months
Its basically my baby
tight basin
black background with white text is something im considering lmao
wmic did it too, looks nice
last dirge
It works. Better on bad gamer eyes.
tight basin
true
us gamers do love dark mode
ah god dammit i have to go through a bunch of hammers for each weapon lmao
last dirge
I should finish my CoD guide. Also do a Gilgamesh guide.
vagrant crane
ah god dammit i have to go through a bunch of hammers for each weapon lmao
put long knuckle up it’s cracked
last dirge
I find with Gilgamesh and especially these DR builds, and the backstab one most of all, that Gilgamesh benefits from very specific timing of dashes. Not just using them all up as soon as they are available. This allows for more standing strikes. Dash when damage comes, even into it with DR, then get the crit buff and even reposition for backstabs.
tight basin
put long knuckle up it’s cracked
Remind me when I get to it lmao
I've been listing like
2-3 hammers on the guide
tight basin
I should do a tier list for all of them like frostripper did for sword
vagrant crane
gilga is a trap because you play it and then you’re trapped into the run
last dirge
I like it and do best with it rn
tight basin
Hopefully I remember tomorrow
vagrant crane
reset is the only way out
vagrant crane
I should do a tier list for all of them like frostripper did for sword
one day i’ll look at the 2 i got on the ap exam because i helped a 32 heat guide be created and i’ll move like he did and leave lol
last dirge
Backstabs + breaching make shield guys so easy
vagrant crane
what’s easier is just having ME lol
tight basin
one day i’ll look at the 2 i got on the ap exam because i helped a 32 heat guide...
Lmao my guide isn't a priority dw about it
last dirge
I could have gotten ME a few of these times tbh
Ares keeps showing up, and I'd take the swap
last dirge
Like backstabs arent easy but they're fun
vagrant crane
no problem
grand zenith
Like backstabs arent easy but they're fun
^
vagrant crane
me looking at the 61 i got on the last exam like
last dirge
That early +153% was huge
Whatever it was
Like +310% damage on 60 base
15%-35%+ crit
More dash procs to counter and deflect attacks
I dont see what's bad
I was getting like 1300 crits and I didnt even have Battle Rage
tight basin
nah it’s free
Lmao aight then
last dirge
1300 attack crits on fists are unheard of
How does Concentrated Knuckle work exactly? I want to evaluate it on Gilga.
I doubt the dash strikes count but how does it stack? Does it work on different foes due to the aoe?
I'm doing math and I would need 85 base damage for that crit.
Which would be a 5th hit
last dirge
I find with Gilgamesh and especially these DR builds, and the backstab one most ...
If you're playing like this and not interrupting the flow of attacks, and it stacks well, it seems like a really good hammer for Gilga.
Yeah okay
So I'm right
Stay still and do standing strikes for as long as you can
It fits if you consider dash strikes as a trap
proud sand
What is a simple theme/style to go for with the gun?
Not in depth builds but just a rough play style
flint flame
what builds suit an aggresive playstyle/
last dirge
ME is pretty mashy
Merciful End
Everything should be aggressive idk
I was thinking of sword builds when I had it with Darker Thirst and a starting hammer
I was hoping I could try Zag World Splitter
proper furnace
Eris/achilles are really unga boonga
vagrant crane
Eris/achilles are really unga boonga
achilles is rlly hard unga bunga though
tight basin
Unless you have flurry jab
vagrant crane
still
copper valley
Hello
I want to discusse about aspect
Like the sword, what I should prioritise with the first 3 aspect of the sword ?
vagrant crane
Like the sword, what I should prioritise with the first 3 aspect of the sword ?
nemesis
or poseidon if you don’t like sword
essentially nemesis is a sword aspect and does a lot of damage
poseidon does decent damage but it a castspect
so if you don’t like the mechanics of sword but need bounties or something pos might be good
copper valley
No, I mean, what boon I should aim in a run
Also, I'm more an Twin Fist player
Here, I want every info
What is best and what I should prioritise
vagrant crane
oh
well
you can do crit builds on nemesis
you can just take aphrodite attack on the other ones if you want
or you can feasibly do a cast build
ashen shale
just became a lawn mower aka flurry + triple
ashen shale
here's a build for everyone to try : achilles spear with flurry and triple jab + support fire , i call it the lawn mower
last dirge
Nice. I do like support fire on fast builds.
I'm doing it folks. I'm making the Gilgamesh guide
last dirge
Different guides have different purposes
It's to evaluate the aspect and how it functions.
vagrant crane
it doesn't
last dirge
It does. I'm exploring the argument that standing strikes are meant to be primary, and dash strikes are a punishment.
At best a curse applicator or something, or armor remover with Breaching
last dirge
And yes a serious trap, because you're often wasting Fiery Presence on 20 dmg
That's fair. I have my own perspective.
I probably wont finish this soon anyway since totk is coming out
I'm just really interested in the actual gameplay and synergy of the aspect despite its weaknesses.
Just what I like. I am trying to make a Minotaur Rush Beo build work.
With a Sudden Rush start because minotaur sucks lol
It's just a cool concept usually better done by cshot
warm snow
Just what I like. I am trying to make a Minotaur Rush Beo build work.
imagine if it buffed the cast
last dirge
Yeah. It does have potential with the big area increase Beo provides
You can also load more casts at once
I got a 1200 crit in tart with it. It just isnt viable without Sudden Rush though
Maybe I could try it on Zag but the hammers will change.
Chaos?
Maybe lmao
40 vs 50 base dmg hmm
Anyway here is the guide so far
Mostly filler
Formatting kinda done + some build idea names down
Some of them are ones I've been doing recently.
Merciless End is just Merciful End where you might also try for Deadly Reversal
I'll work on the thesis more later too
I'm focusing so much, so early on each action because there are a lot of intersections of factors I want to cover.
grand zenith
What do you do for dodging to replace dashing?
last dirge
Merciful End is covered but right now I'm more interested in the "Back-Breaker". Since Gilga has strong standing strikes and can have good dash control, I am really enjoying how stuff like Expose and other backstab modifiers stack with Deadly Strike
Because normally you would fill in the missing dmg with dash strike dmg, you cant do that here.
So the clear path imo is that Gilga is a backstab aspect
tight basin
I'm assuming the guide is basically "don't dash strike in these builds except for ME" right
last dirge
Not meta but thats what it is and kinda what it needs
Nah you dash strike into stuff with DR builds
Just time it right
Try to dash strike less if you get Concentrated Knuckle
They're still really good with Breaching
You'll have a massive dps increase and remove armor fast.
Which then lets you attack lock enemies
Gilga has solid attack pacing and aoe for locking groups at FO0 at least
I will be doing this guide over a while. I need to try out some heat at least for reference
I'll leave heat and speed to Cherry and whoever else.
Anyway I'm focusing on actions because Gilga does have an inherent, boostable source of true global damage.
This is an interesting versatility
You can add 1250 damage to your Meg call with 1 action on the most important targets.
Cast I find interesting because Abyssal Blood might just be interesting with it.
last dirge
With Rending Claws especially, it's very notable on bosses
proper furnace
for maim tech def ask cherry
vagrant crane
most of the time if you have tdash that’s doing most of your damage
vagrant crane
even on good aspects
last dirge
Ik
vagrant crane
You got their discord?
they’re in speedcord
last dirge
Dash is a major aspect
Moreso if you use more dash strikes
It wont be most of your damage if you are doing standing strikes
Especially not on bosses
proper furnace
I dont really like gilga but boi do I appreciate Cherry's commitment to it
mainly the boosted maim on both heroes
last dirge
I never really considered how strong the standing strikes are
Yeah its fun
Where is the speed cord link? Pins?
proper furnace
pinned in #self-promotion
also that clip where someone clears a tart room in like 3 standing strikes is so smooth lol
last dirge
Okay. Sent it to them.
Yeah the aoe is really nice with some stuff
Like it uses mark really well, applies other curses really well
tight basin
@wheat bridge idk but it lasts 0.8 seconds lmao
wheat bridge
God that sucks
tight basin
Assuming it's every 0.1 sec that's 8 ticks of 30 damage at common lvl 1
Assuming you hit
And they stay in it
But idk how fast it actually hits lmao
wheat bridge
apparently Slicing Shot is every .2 sec and lasts 4 seconds
so even if its 0.1 seconds for the Flare, lasting only 0.8 seconds is not good
tight basin
I'd assume flare would also hit every 0.2 sec tbh
wheat bridge
I guess you can spam it though
tight basin
Actually that can't be right
Idk
Slicing flare bad
That's all you need to know lmao
wheat bridge
I go out of my way to do Freezing Vortex on Beowulf, I feel like a boon being good is the least of my worries at this point
but also yeah Flood Flare is very based
tight basin
Are you aware of the mirage shot bug
wheat bridge
I am
tight basin
Very nice
wheat bridge
Doubling up on Chill Stacks and damage with Arctic Blast
Obviously that takes 2 very specific duo boons to accomplish
But every day I wish for that high again
vagrant crane
arcitc blast is like 10 damge per hit lol
wheat bridge
Only if it's rare :^)
If it's common its like 6
So yeah it's not a good boon either lol
But
I love it
Same deal with stuff like Curse of Drowning
I wanted to make it work, didn't really know how
So I just took Gilgamesh Claws and dashed into people a bunch
proper furnace
I've seen people use it with talos or Achilles
wheat bridge
Ngl talos would have probably been better
vagrant crane
cod is the inferior talos flood shot duo
wheat bridge
I just like seeing how broken I can make "bad" boons
or at least seeing if I can work with them
the only duo boon I've hated enough to not want to use is Cold Embrace
Although tbh I guess some duo boons are ones you can't really build around and are just little bonuses
drowsy saddle
me and the lads building around exclusive access
tight basin
That's called resetting until you get the duo in Tartarus so you can get epic Hermes in asphodel
And resetting if you don't get rd
wheat bridge
Exclusive Access Best Boon
vagrant crane
blown kiss:
wheat bridge
Blown Kiss is funny
The extra range is nice but the fact that it only boosts the first hit kinda sucks
well, only against bosses I guess
everything else just dies
wheat bridge
me and the lads building around exclusive access
Although this does make me think
warm snow
idk i hit enemies with the arrow before the cast
wheat bridge
As much as I like Exclusive Access, I kinda wish they got a damaging duo boon
wheat bridge
idk i hit enemies with the arrow before the cast
Achilles 🙏
warm snow
hera 
vagrant crane
Blown Kiss is funny
wheat bridge
Blown Kiss makes me wish Battle Rage also worked on casts
but alas
One-shotting enemies with a buffed up Crush Shot is always nice
last dirge
Only if it's rare :^)
CoD is great on Achilles. As for Cold Embrace, try Talos. It's more about positioning, using Stygian Soul, lots of casts, and Glacial Glare. Hard to build like any Demeter build but can be pretty strong.
wheat bridge
I know Cold Embrace can be strong, but I just dont like the play style of it
last dirge
That's called resetting until you get the duo in Tartarus so you can get epic He...
I technically did this after like 10 restarts because I couldn't get deadly flourish on a charged skewer start, and ended up with common HS epic RD
wheat bridge
If I reset too many times I just grab Mom Pom and go for a random build
usually goes pretty ok
wheat bridge
I mean hey if you start with it, you might get a level 3 core boon :)
wheat bridge
Nah why would I ever do thast
vagrant crane
because shackle is actually a good keepsake
wheat bridge
Shackle is Cringe
I acknowledge the strength of Shattered Shackle, but I'm fine just getting mom pom because why not
grand zenith
Based af.
grand zenith
Shackle is Cringe
~~I acknowledge the strength of Shattered Shackle, but I'm fin...
Based Pom Enjoyers, Cringe Shackled Users.
wheat bridge
Playing Optimally is for Nerds 😎
grand zenith
But imagine if you pommed tho. 
\
vagrant crane
then i would have had no damage 
wheat bridge
I go Shattered Shackle at high heat
And even the, my 32 heat run I just started with coin purse
unless Im doing the extra enemy health pact, I dont really need that much extra damage
loud fossil
what arm (not aspects, but arm over all) is over all the slowest for speedrunning?
i think its sword but not sure
tight basin
Kinda hard to answer that because some aspects are very fast and others aren't lmao
Might be sword I guess but maybe fists
raw peak
What aspect should I be using for the stygian blade?
warm snow
nemesis if you want the sword to deal more damage
poseidon if you want cast to deal more damage
raw peak
I've been using poseidon and it has not been working well for me at all
warm snow
it's like slower achilles
raw peak
I feel like the special is too slow
tight basin
the standard dps rotation for sword is special -> 2x dash strikes -> repeat
so you kinda should use the special lol
amber shuttle
Question: I know Arthur isn’t optimal but what are the best boons for 32+ heat Arthur
vagrant crane
Question: I know Arthur isn’t optimal but what are the best boons for 32+ heat A...
heartbreak strike
divine dash
that’s probably all u need really
it’s weird hestia
warm snow
zeus' aid and smoldering air
amber shuttle
heartbreak strike
Thanks
ashen shale
any builds for a hiddenaspect adamant rail run
ashen shale
so 2020 gun?
grand zenith
I think u gotta aim for the Luci hammer too, but I’m not sure.
grand zenith
so 2020 gun?
Lel.
vagrant crane
Poseidon Atk.
you also need to get sea storm
vagrant crane
I think u gotta aim for the Luci hammer too, but I’m not sure.
the?
tight basin
triple bomb
but also uh
super soaker luci is just like
the meta build but with extra steps lmao
grand zenith
you also need to get sea storm
Ahhh
tight basin
i thought so
vagrant crane
probably does lol
tight basin
yeah it does
vagrant crane
but triple bomb is the hammer thats good on luci
tight basin
literally the only core that doesn't work is tdash lmao
grand zenith
were you playing super soaker with no sea storm
I was not playing… At all…
last dirge
My personal favorite Lucifer build is Sea Storm but on dash/special
You get a % special with auto burst
And the best attack and dash
amber shuttle
Can anyone link me or tell me the meta Eris build? I’m not 100% on it
tight basin
Can anyone link me or tell me the meta Eris build? I’m not 100% on it
from my 32 heat guide i'm working on: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/839538570738139146/1105260440793141328/image.png?width=941&height=392
ah god dammit dyno bot
amber shuttle
from my 32 heat guide i'm working on: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/8...
Thanks
amber shuttle
Ok lol, what keepsake?
tight basin
wmic's eris guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13lSPIUsiJGr5vApeon6ayX9N4-UlvGHWrCGdYAxhvHM/edit
this one is more for like speedrunning, but it goes over builds as well
tight basin
Ok lol, what keepsake?
zeus -> artemis/aphrodite -> acorn -> acorn
i think keepsake rotation is also covered in wmic's guide but i could be wrong
tight basin
eris is a strong rail yeah
amber shuttle
Right
tight basin
prob one of the easiest rails to learn
amber shuttle
Ok kewl cuz I have maxed Lucifer it just seems slower
tight basin
luci is pretty strong as well
it's just more reliant on getting the triple bomb hammer to output the majority of its dps
vagrant crane
zagrail is the easiest because no uptime or anything
tight basin
luci and eris build the same btw, so you can use this either of the things i said
tight basin
zagrail is the easiest because no uptime or anything
oh true
eris has more dps tho so might as well tell people to use eris tho lmao
75% global boost funny
amber shuttle
Ok so rocket bomb targeting system and spread fire
tight basin
rocket bomb easily
tight basin
Rail is infamous for the Rocket Bomb + Cluster Bomb combo, also known as “clockets”. The reduced damage from Cluster doesn’t apply to rockets, so it’s a base 400 damage explosion point blank. Ideally, you’d ‘shoot’ for this. Rocket first hammer is better utility wise, since it’s easier to use and a lot faster, but having Cluster as your first hammer will give you slightly better odds at getting clockets (by 1 hammer).
amber shuttle
> Rail is infamous for the Rocket Bomb + Cluster Bomb combo, also known as “cloc...
Ohhhh
tight basin
ngl i could just straight up make a separate guide for the builds instead of throwing it into the 32 heat guide lmao
amber shuttle
What if I get rare attack do I still take it or reroll
tight basin
just take it
amber shuttle
Ok
tight basin
the attack rarity doesn't matter
amber shuttle
Cool
tight basin
rarity doesnt matter on boons like 95% of the time
vagrant crane
well whose boon is it
tight basin
i'm assuming zeus
vagrant crane
oh
amber shuttle
Yes
tight basin
because eris and i told them to go zeus lol
vagrant crane
yeah thats like 2 damage diff
tight basin
you pretty much never roll for rarity
vagrant crane
o yea
i mean technically rolling over grey +dash counts as rolling for rarity if you take blue or purple
tight basin
if you need a boon that needs a good rarity, you want that to be your very first boon so that if it's common you just reset or pick a different aspect
tight basin
i mean technically rolling over grey +dash counts as rolling for rarity if you t...
i mean if i only had 1 reroll left and it was a grey dash i wouldn't complain lmao
vagrant crane
i would :3
tight basin
well sounds like a you problem
amber shuttle
Do I take chaos gates if so what
tight basin
take special damage buffs
amber shuttle
Ok
tight basin
an atk buff won't modify the lightning strike, it'll modify the base 10 damage bullet
if you can't get a special buff, just take something neutral that won't harm you
amber shuttle
Got an epic special buff first try
amber shuttle
More enemies
tight basin
ah that's kinda a pain
vagrant crane
tight basin
i mean it's not too bad tbh
amber shuttle
Yeah
tight basin
as long as it's not high heat or speedrunning
amber shuttle
Yup
tight basin
and if it's like less than 40% lmao
tight basin
yeah
amber shuttle
K
tight basin
it's the start of high heat basically
tight basin
not the end of the world
amber shuttle
Lol
tight basin
her supporting stuff tends to be fine
ashen shale
the water hose worked
amber shuttle
@tight basin do you have part of the 32 heat guide? It’s proving difficult
tight basin
i should prob make it so people can't comment on it now lmao
ashen shale
quarantine build for hidden aspect of rail : poseidon atk and athena special
tight basin
but yeah i guess my guide is good to go to throw at people whenever they ask
amber shuttle
Thx
last dirge
Demeter is fine as a secondary good. Good even.
She has good unpommables you can take that are also unsellable
Meaning they wont consume any slots effectively, while providing Family Favorite damage and the boon's effect
You could sell every Demeter boon besides Rare Crop and you would still benefit marginally from her appearing
And get obols
Just avoid opening duos
Though honestly her legendary is really good. Just painful to get.
So like in theory a mistral dash + 2 tier 2s + legendary could work on any build and provide some decent effective dps
Weak dash still though
Even with Gilgamesh you would rather have Demeter on attack imo
Better stacking and the % works well on standing strikes
Does anyone have any good vods of Beowulf special runs when that was meta?
You had Demeter then right? I'm thinking an epic Ravenous Will for example could work there.
You should be able to just load casts and negate Beo's +10% damage received + provide global scaling
lucid oar
I’ve done one special run on beowulf and it used sea storm
Didn’t have rav will but I did limit myself to only being allowed to special/dash/interact
This wasn’t 400% charged flight tho
last dirge
Yeah I'm mostly curious if rav was ever considered when that was the case/meta
It almost feels made for Beo but usually you're cycling casts in a way that it is hard to use and barely active
But on a special build it should just be automatic.
vagrant crane
It almost feels made for Beo but usually you're cycling casts in a way that it i...
bosses in question
last dirge
What do you mean?
vagrant crane
if you have rav will and it brings you over instaphase then it's free dmg
vagrant crane
if you want to play a suboptimal playstyle that includes the bow special just go chiron
last dirge
That isnt charged volley tho
vagrant crane
that's just like bad triple shot
last dirge
Got to try one of the builds in my guide. Enkidu in Love.
#h1-victory-boasting message
Low Tolerance build that uses Rending Claws for even more hangover dmg
Also got Bad Influence like I wanted but it really only works on Rama I feel.
Otherwise I could only really spread it in Elysium, which helps sure, but you want it active more often than that. Regardless it was a very strong build.
One day I hope to get this + splitting headache somehow
I also wish I took Poseidon earlier to open up Exclusive Access earlier.
Didnt end up getting it (CoD showed up because I forgot Blade Dash opens it) but that would have helped get some other stuff
Also just not many Dio boons. Late Strong Drink.
I got more Dio later at least
This would be the build to test out Abyssal Blood, since I have high Maim uptime, and all the slowdown would actually matter together.
Or does it not stack that way? In find it hard to notice.
last dirge
The Dio boon + Rending + Abyssal Blood
vagrant crane
rending claws slows?
last dirge
Yeah
vagrant crane
i mean eh
last dirge
-30%
vagrant crane
i think targeting system is more fun slow
last dirge
It's not huge but it probably matters when its 3 sources of slow
True. Aoe
But I have Explosive Upper which is similar enough
That's just great hammer luck though
I'll try this with splitting headache over low tolerance sometime
Low tolerance is good on bosses but really enemies should die before they get 8 stacks here
I'd rather the mark procs and such
That helps mark get going and special uses it.
And I'd much rather have nausea with splitting headache for the faster procs
I think I have gotten all 3 before. Just not on a well executed build
Did the math on my max Hangover dps here
743
Didn't reach that on that because it includes Bad Influence. Before that its 571.
At the end of the dad fight when he stops going invuln I probably got there and it was melting his hp
last dirge
Anyone wanna evaluate the Hermes boon tier list here?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q7gV942MY5rsOYcP0qExhZk14n1FbNRycvX-TFVmT04/edit?usp=drivesdk
Its basically true for every aspect anyway
The guide is a bit big but it's in there below Olympians
I wish Swift Flourish affected Dash-Upper
Getting Maim out faster would be great
tight basin
should mention bad news is a prereq and needs auto reload in S imo
unless that's mentioned later
i only read through S so far lol
last dirge
Really? I put it in C
No D
I guess I could raise it but S seems high. Doesnt it decrease Blood mirror option uptime?
last dirge
That seems like the primary use of casts on Gilgamesh
Debuffs
And a little more damage
Lodging casts anyway
Or like a duo
tight basin
I guess I could raise it but S seems high. Doesnt it decrease Blood mirror optio...
oh i didn't mean raise auto reload to S lmao
i meant like
the location of interest im talking about is in S tier
tight basin
bad phrasing lol my bad
will say side hustle in A seems high
i'd put it high B but not A
tight basin
mid-high B seems fair
tight basin
sure that works
last dirge
Thanks. Just wanted to make sure it seemed right. Luckily Hermes is pretty universal besides which Swift might be good.
tight basin
how does greater haste apply to standing strikes? you mentioned that in S tier
last dirge
It's a permanent speed increase
tight basin
greater haste is just movement tho
last dirge
I'm mentioning it only in the context of using it in tandem with RD
Otherwise it's much lower
HS is also probably like A then
last dirge
Yeah. Thanks.
tight basin
like "affects standing strikes with RD unlike Hyper Sprint"
tight basin
HS is also probably like A then
i'd still have it in S tbh
lead up to RD or just brief sturdy for your first standing strike is nice
im assuming that 0.5 sec is enough for 1 standing strike out of a dash tho
last dirge
I'm speaking in terms of it not leading up to RD
Say you get it in Styx and dont have RD
Yeah 0.5 is probably enough for 1
I'm just rating the less temporary sources higher because they should provide a comparable damage output on some builds
Kinda hard to get into all of that though
Will probably mention it elsewhere
tight basin
I'm speaking in terms of it not leading up to RD
wdym by this
both sprint and haste give the same odds for an RD follow up
last dirge
Like you get it in Styx with no RD
tight basin
i mean that's the same issue with haste no?
last dirge
Then it's not really an S boon on Gilgamesh
tight basin
oh i see what you mean
last dirge
Yeah and I said it would also be much lower.
tight basin
i mean
last dirge
And like Side Hustle can pay for itself at least lol
tight basin
i feel like good is a very loose term lol
for swift strike
like yeah certainly not bad
tight basin
but also like the gap between more dashes or rd and swift strike is a fat margin
last dirge
For sure.
tight basin
like it's a cope+ pick lmao
tight basin
you can certainly get decent hermes boons in styx, but if you're buying a styx hermes, you're hoping for rd or dashes and not anything else
tight basin
yeah with good rarity should be fine
last dirge
Ahhhh why doesnt tidal dash open up sea storm
Ruining my solid dash build
Explosive upper
round umbra
Seems like fated authority was what I was missing to do fists runs in the 30s without the right starting boon. That with Dodge tanking should get me through the next few heat.
Just need a non percent attack boon.
grand zenith
Seems like fated authority was what I was missing to do fists runs in the 30s wi...
Yeah, it works well with fists specifically, ion know why.
valid dagger
It’s just highly inconsistent, lots of rng. So most of the time it’s pretty awful but sometimes it’ll be solid enough to complete a run with a good build.
round umbra
Normally I run a god keepsake to form a build but I want plume on zag fist from the get go, so authority is how I get the important boons I want.
Figuring that out took me from fists being the last thing for me to 32 to doing 32-34 with fists back to back to back.
Best to worst back to best weapon for me it seems lol
Getting bad news 3 times in a row didn't hurt
last dirge
Imo that build just works better on Gilgamesh.
Ruthless Reflex is just more useful imo
It is a little more deliberate in using the dashes though
vagrant crane
rr uptime is not permanent though
last dirge
True but that's where the more deliberate dodges come from
You put in the effort to keep it up often and it's just a better dodge fists build imo
50% dodge and global dmg for 2s vs just 15% dodge
valid dagger
Honestly I'd take the 15%
last dirge
I used to do Plume Gilga runs a lot
valid dagger
Gilga dashes suck
last dirge
Nah just need to use them right
Basically need to count them
There is benefit to both but Zag fists just seem like they dont really have a benefit
valid dagger
The thing is Gilga changes a fundamental mechanic of the game. You're used to dashing with every weapon. Then you have Gilga, where you have to relearn dashes and timing to get a mediocre-at-best weapon
So it's not very exciting
Partially why most people hate it
last dirge
It's not mediocre though
valid dagger
I'm being generous
last dirge
And it is very exciting
valid dagger
last dirge
Just seems like a lack of curiosity and skill tbh
Not an actual reflection of anything
I would suggest learning to be remotely open to other reasons to play video games
Like sorry but you probably havent used it enough with actual attention to detail to give it a fair critique.
I'll trust myself who has used it lots and Cherry who has used it lots
Otherwise I'm just gonna assume you got on the hate train and dont want to learn something new. That is perfectly fine. I dont want to learn Hestia dash strikes. Be honest tho.
It just doesnt perform the way you want for your purposes
In fact it does actually. Just not quite as well based on metrics.
Seems pretty ridiculous of a metric to claim no one should ever use something
gusty rapids
💀
last dirge
No other speedrunners think like this.
valid dagger
ok
lucid oar
I do
last dirge
No other communities think their weird way of playing is the only way to play
Most recognize they're breaking the game often literally
grand zenith
I think they're speaking merely in pure practicality.
acoustic vale
Gilgamesh is fun
grand zenith
^
valid dagger
I didn't really criticize your way of playing nor did I say my method is better. I simply said I would prefer Zag Fists over Gilgamesh for a plume/dodge run because Gilga dashes are worse and the weapon as a whole isn't that strong, which is not my opinion, but more of a generally agreed upon judgement. At the end of the day you can play whatever you want for all I care.
last dirge
Practicality is just one factor and the practicality of handling enemies as quickly as possible is just a factor most players care about even less than I do
grand zenith
The Gilga dashes being worse is a matter of opinion.
vagrant crane
theyre shorter
last dirge
Short doesnt mean worse
grand zenith
Yeah and that has its own benefits.
last dirge
They're also tighter for damage and you just need to use them slightly better
tight basin
i mean they're shorter and they have a longer cooldown
and the compensation is that you get more dashes
last dirge
You can still escape any attack as long as you time and use them right
And your standing strikes are good
tight basin
so like the dash itself is technically worse
proper furnace
Short doesnt mean worse
When your iframes are tied to how long you are dashing yeah it kinda does
vagrant crane
i mean they're shorter and they have a longer cooldown
and the compensation is t...
isnt the cooldown just by virtue of having more daqshes
tight basin
idk
vagrant crane
like with +dashes from hermes
tight basin
is that how that works
last dirge
You're constantly attacking with fists lmao
vagrant crane
which increases your cooldown
last dirge
You dont have iframes anyway
vagrant crane
imagine the cooldown with heroic +dashes and gilga gr
last dirge
Like everyone plays fists by holding down attack
Why are iframes coming into the question
grand zenith
Do they?
lucid oar
isnt the cooldown just by virtue of having more daqshes
No, mashing regular dashes is definitely faster
proper furnace
Bc you should know when not to hold?
vagrant crane
No, mashing regular dashes is definitely faster
you mean the cd between each dash?
lucid oar
Yes
vagrant crane
oh
yea
thats really weird and annoying
i thought it was the cooldown when you cant keep dashing for a bit
last dirge
You get used to it
vagrant crane
you get used to crappy touchscreens
last dirge
Also who cares if they are shorter
HS makes them longer
Effectively
Or you get GR
tight basin
hs doesn't increase your iframes
last dirge
Sure
last dirge
Still an option
tight basin
i'm pretty sure the argument they're making is that since the dashes are shorter, you have less leniency on getting good dodges because you have less iframes
round umbra
Imo that build just works better on Gilgamesh.
Dodge builds in general? I went zag and RR
last dirge
You have Ruthless Reflex
If you get better at timing your dodges then you just have a 50/50 to ignore damage a lot of the time
tight basin
that's assuming you already dodged an attack in the first place within 2 seconds and got the proc right
grand zenith
Yes
That's a surprise, but even then, the risk/benefit ratio is still good with Gilga dash.
valid dagger
moyai
last dirge
Yeah so you can avoid large swathes of small damage
grand zenith
that's assuming you already dodged an attack in the first place within 2 seconds...
Yes, that's not hard
last dirge
But sometimes you might screw up and get hit for 100 from dad
Yeah it really isnt. It's a very loose window
tight basin
Yes, that's not hard
true just get the 50/50
last dirge
Same as lightning reflexes
tight basin
Yeah it really isnt. It's a very loose window
well i mean like
last dirge
You dont always need it
tight basin
it's reliant on you dodging a previous attack
last dirge
It's also +50% global dmg