aight so i guess i just need to play a bit more and see what abilities are better on the weapons
#h1-builds-and-combat
neat dove
dense tusk
Rule of thumb if it's slow go for damage if it's fast go for stacking debuffs and aoe
plain river
what is slam damage?
I’ve never heard this term
neat dove
well its in the game and i googled it and apparently its slamming enemies against a wall
with the fists
plain river
there are also poseidon boons that boost wall slam damage or add an aoe burst on slamming someone into a wall
Typhoons fury and breaking wave respectively
And the damage dealt by wall slams scales with biome
meager geyser
Is it just me or is Zeus Sea Storm on Achilles pretty underwhelming?
feels like I would have better luck going for Zeus-Dio duo instead
south igloo
Is it just me or is Zeus Sea Storm on Achilles pretty underwhelming?
Eh, I'd personally say its ok - its not my favourite, but then again i am a Doom til i die kinda gal lmao
lucid oar
Is it just me or is Zeus Sea Storm on Achilles pretty underwhelming?
With tidal dash and lightning strike, or the opposite?
Imo it really only shines when you have jolted + RD + razor shoals
meager geyser
oh right right, I forgot it's abbreviation for rush delivery
people always call it by the combo name hyper delivery so I just forgot the actual boon name lol
yeah maybe it's because I've been not getting rush delivery on hermes or something
lucid oar
Also double strike is really strong with sea storm
It procs more often than the description suggests
meager geyser
also does rush delivery not work properly on greater haste or something?
asking since people always suggest hyper sprint instead
lucid oar
It works fine, but hyper sprint is 2x move speed while greater haste is only 1.2x/1.3x/1.4x
So it’s way better
meager geyser
I see 
Another question, am I the only one who prefers God's Legacy over Pride? I tried using pride for a couple of runs and while I do get strong core boons, it just feels bad to play because I just struggle so much getting any Duos at all
lucid oar
Probably not the only one
Most of the time I use gods legacy but I only really play beowulf
On basically everything else I use gods pride
plain river
Another question, am I the only one who prefers God's Legacy over Pride? I tried...
You aren’t the only one, it’s just that most of the time rarity matters more then higher chance at duos
upbeat vigil
yo im kinda new to the game, ive gotten to hades quite a few times but i just cant beat him? any simple builds that i could go?
most of this times ive gone the gun and spammed special with mostly artemis, hammer and aphrodite
also i dont know what keepsake to use, i usually use lucky tooth but ive realised its useless until i get to hades
valid dagger
also i dont know what keepsake to use, i usually use lucky tooth but ive realise...
If you're running Eris, start with Zeus and take his attack then swap to Athena/Poseidon in Aspho for the dash. For Elysium and Styx, Acorn is considered the best boss tanking keepsake overall, so I would recommend that. If you're running Hestia you can start with Aphro and take the Attack to start with then in Aspho you can force Athena/Artemis for the dash, maybe Poseidon, or if your hammer is Rocket/Hazard/Cluster you could force Artemis for the Special instead. As for Hades, you just need to take your time and try to learn the patterns, you'll get it eventually. Remember that dashes grant iframes as long as they're empty dashes, dash-striking will strip those iframes.
upbeat vigil
If you're running Eris, start with Zeus and take his attack then swap to Athena/...
one thing tho, how do i choose what to start with..?
upbeat vigil
If you're running Eris, start with Zeus and take his attack then swap to Athena/...
for hestia, does manually reload mean me having to press the button?
valid dagger
Yes
swift siren
What's the best build for the spear, the only aspect I don't have is aspect of hades, and the only keepsake I don't have is hades
valid dagger
What's the best build for the spear, the only aspect I don't have is aspect of h...
Spear is one of the more hammer reliant weapons. You can start with Tidal dash and try to get Lightning Strike or Deadly Strike. Deadly strike is stronger on Achilles due to the raging rush, you can then look for casts because those also get buffed by raging rush, Phalanx/Slicing Shot/Crystal Beam are good options that you can combine with their duos later in the run. Due to the lack of raging rush on Zag spear, you'd prefer having a Call as your other source of damage, ideally Zeus or Dio. For all of the mentioned to work to its max potential you'll want Flurry Jab as your hammer, otherwise it can be pretty underwhelming.
Zag Spear has another route (also hammer reliant) that focuses on the Special instead. You just start with a strong Special (Aphro or Artemis) and pray that you get Explosive Launcher and ideally Charged Skewer (in that order)
The same applies when it comes to external damage sources. Calls can be strong in every build, and casts can be pretty solid with a pom or two.
uneven jacinth
how do y'all use the gauntlets well?
lucid oar
Merciful end with doom on attack and Athena dash
uneven jacinth
huh makes sense
wouldnt doom be better on special? With something else that stacks easier cuz punches are fast?
tight basin
ME wants to proc doom as fast as possible and the special doesn't hit fast
You basically want to apply doom and then dash into the enemy to drop it again
And spam dash attacks because of that
uneven jacinth
huh
lucid oar
It’s why ME is so good
neat dove
What is generally the best way to roll for a certain duo boon?
Should i for example ignore certain gods boons or something
tight basin
yes
say i want heart rend on nemesis
i'd start with artemis atk and aphrodite special
i wouldn't want to pick up say, a poseidon core boon
that would open up mirage shot and sweet nectar, clogging the duo pool
you can take certain gods, but just dont have them take a core slot that would open up other duos
that way if you pick up an artemis boon, you dont have a 50/50 shot in getting the duo you want
neat dove
man this sounds kinda complex since theres like a million duo boons
tight basin
eh not really
tldr is like
dont take other gods' core boons
you can take a poseidon supporting boon like hydraulic might since that doesn't open duos
tight basin
for the most part, yes
neat dove
Oh then its easier i thought that every single boon can mess it up
tight basin
there are a few exceptions, but you can always open up the codex to check
uneven jacinth
did they ever end up fixing bow of chiron so all zeus bolts hits?
valid dagger
That's not a bug
And the game stopped getting fixes and balance updates a long time ago
uneven jacinth
damn
uneven jacinth
That's not a bug
why
tight basin
probably so the game doesn't crash from too many effects i would guess lmao
uneven jacinth
Ill be honest multiple lightning bolts is prolly the least cluttery thing in the game
tight basin
yeah probably
uneven jacinth
is there any other builds for gauntlets that isnt doom?
tight basin
lightning strike, aphro special, dio/zeus call -> smair
uneven jacinth
huh
has anyone tried magnetic cutter with poseidon attack
its like playing ping pong
doesnt work on boss much tho
still fun
uneven jacinth
what do you guys use with spear builds
its easily my favourite weapon and moveset but it drops off fast in elysium
tight basin
yeah spears do be like that
achilles with hunting blades or lightning phalanx is decent
ME is a classic
charged skewer guan yu is like bad bow
proper furnace
Bad hestia more like
proper furnace
Add a power shot and i accept calling it bad bow
uneven jacinth
I dont use achilees and guan yu cuz it's ability doesnt let me do the cool thor hammer return
tight basin
lmao fair
tight basin
I dont use achilees and guan yu cuz it's ability doesnt let me do the cool thor...
you can do that with achilles
i thought
proper furnace
I dont use achilees and guan yu cuz it's ability doesnt let me do the cool thor...
Recall sucks sadly
tight basin
you dont get the damage boost tho
proper furnace
And yeah you can
uneven jacinth
you do but then theres no point in using achilees
proper furnace
Use atk instead of special again
uneven jacinth
||maybe patrocles special dialogue?||
proper furnace
Even for zag/hades spear you want to have exploding launcher
Which gets rid of recall
tight basin
you'd love arthur then lmao
uneven jacinth
I DO
tight basin
lmao makes sense
uneven jacinth
I like using the special and slowing down time like the projectiles and the standing there like come at me bro and then artemis cuz crits are cool
also it is super helpful in elysium boss when the spear comes into play and I dont have athena dash
tight basin
tennis time
proper furnace
Arthur is fun
south igloo
tennis time
my partner calls it "witch pong" in the bullet hell that is elysium
tight basin
splitters
and arrows
and butterfly balls
well everyone has their struggles
still hit stun
and you still have to dodge them 
south igloo
i just have bad hand eye coord bc of a little bit of nerve damage in my left hand, and i play switch, plus i have a little bit of drift on my left stick, so when you get the witches circles as mini boss rooms i have to take my dutiful seat on the struggle bus
tepid lichen
does shadow presence work on rail
south igloo
i swear theres one w the white ones in elysium? or i might be thinking of them being in the goddang killer butterfly level
tight basin
i swear theres one w the white ones in elysium? or i might be thinking of them b...
i mean there are waves that spawns a bunch of splitters
which can be a pain when not dealt with fast enough
and then armored ones shoot 3 at once
south igloo
i swear theres one in elysium that ive encountered before, but eh, might be misremembering the level - i have been rerunning areas a lot recently trying to get the confidence back to go past my record of 12 heat
uneven jacinth
Is butterfly even worth it? You lose all bonuses upon removing it!
proper furnace
Is butterfly even worth it? You lose all bonuses upon removing it!
nah
plain river
Is butterfly even worth it? You lose all bonuses upon removing it!
Not at all
Butterfly means either not forcing gods in tart and/or aspho, or taking it into elysium for minimal additive
plain river
Butterfly means either not forcing gods in tart and/or aspho, or taking it into ...
Even if you take it from tartarus it’s still minimal additive tbh
uneven jacinth
Damn
I figure hermes would be cool with like fists for that chance
But its still a BIG gamble tho
tight basin
It's decent with zag fists
Plume zag sword for fds was a thing some people did in the speedrunning server for a bit
uneven jacinth
100% dodge chance funny
does it go to 100% or is it capped?
proper furnace
can go to 100
uneven jacinth
also arent there like 36 chambers only before styx?
proper furnace
idk if you can get it at 100 all the time but you can get to it with other bonus
tight basin
Yeah
proper furnace
idk if you can get it at 100 all the time but you can get to it with other bonus
ruthless reflex, second wind are the biggest 2
plain river
does it go to 100% or is it capped?
It can go to 100 temporarily
Would have to be pushed by swind or rr
ashen shoal
gods legacy (duos and legendarys) or gods pride (epic)?
plain river
Pride
hybrid cipher
Does the damage buff from butterfly stay after you swap it out mid run?
proper oriole
whats a good guan yu build?
tight basin
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/1051685600048197632/...
classic
a whole what, 3 days?
better than 36 horus
rose nexus
Croven should be illegal
tight basin
tru
pallid walrus
which aspects should i put on the magentic cutter
versed meadow
What build should I try to strive for with the fists, aspect of demeter?
lucid oar
Merciful end
muted sun
Every fist plays merciful end it feels like
muted sun
Is taking poseidon to start on hestia always good? It feels like that while tidal dash is really really good, thats the only thing we really want from him so thats almost a wasted god slot on its own
muted sun
Oh yeah I forgot about razor shoals
Hydraulic might I thought about but never seemed like a huge deal to me, and I forgor what breaking wave does 
Extra wallslam damage?
muted sun
Yeah thats what it was
lucid oar
There’s a similar one, typhoon fury, but it’s worse
muted sun
Wasn't sure if it was that or that was typhoons fury
muted sun
Dio feels kinda underwhelming on a lot of weapons in my experience
I played an ice wine achilles run and that was fun but thats all that comes to mind
lucid oar
Trippy flare beowulf absolutely chunks
muted sun
I heard about that one. I also know its crazy inconsistent
I also hate playing beowulf so never tried it
tepid lichen
Anyone here attempted to do this ultimate build
lucid oar
I’ve tried it at 32 heat a while ago
lucid oar
No it wasn’t lol
tepid lichen
- shattered shackle
lucid oar
The game is so much more fun with boons
tepid lichen
The flex dialogue when u meet hades is worth it though
elder osprey
Is there a way to have a boon from every God at once while in Elysium?
I wonder who Theseus would call
lucid oar
It’s not possible
The default is Artemis though
You can only have a max of 5 Olympian gods leaving Tartarus
And that requires a very specific sequence of chambers
turbid needle
Is it a bad idea to use Aspect of Zagreus spear instead of Aspect of Achilles spear purely for control-binding-feelings?
I can't stand that I can't spam my special to throw and recall and that if I want to do that I need to hit attack, it messes up my groove and maybe I just need to git gud but like I wish it was where the rush was with attack instead of the recall
Because damn, it's way too easy to get myself in a bad situation by accidentally dashing isntead of recalling, even if I know I want to be dashing often anyway for bonus damage
digital monolith
Anyone can share their build for hidden aspect of achilles spear?
I find it hard to use coz..well..its quite vulnerable
I just finished the hidden aspect sigil..quite fun and hardcore with daedalus upgrade 🙂
plain river
Is there a way to have a boon from every God at once while in Elysium?
No
But you can get them all in styx
lucid oar
I can't stand that I can't spam my special to throw and recall and that if I wan...
If you want to spam special for damage, just use zag spear
Achilles special spam is not good
plain river
You kind of need explosive launcher if you want to special spam
turbid needle
You kind of need explosive launcher if you want to special spam
What about vicious skewer combined with artemis special enhance
halcyon vector
honestly I never use the spear special unless I have explosive launcher
spear has good range anyway, doesn't fit into my playstyle well
plain river
Regular spear special is sad
plain river
guan-yu special is good
It isn’t regular spear special
It’s better than explosive
It has a better aoe
Guan-yu special is the best part about it
And it is better than explosive since it has a better aoe
halcyon vector
Idk the lifesteal spin is pretty good
I started a hades aspect spear run earlier and immediately got purple deadly strike
then a few chambers later purple support fire
that was a fun run
cunning urchin
Guan-yu special is the best part about it
And it is better than explosive since ...
Most importantly, Guan Yu's Special pierces while Exploding Launcher does not.
Also, I would like to be allowed one Hades II run for each time somebody in this server called Exploding Launcher "Explosive Launcher". 
Amir? Greg? Please?
438 search results. 
turbid needle
Flurry jab or quick spin?
turbid needle
thank you!
turbid needle
cunning urchin
Ideally with Tidal Dash.
plain river
Most importantly, Guan Yu's Special pierces while Exploding Launcher does not.
That’s what I meant by having a better aoe
Explosive >>> exploding
proper yacht
I can't stand that I can't spam my special to throw and recall and that if I wan...
sounds like we may have a new guan yu main from this
muted sun
Guan yu do be fun
turbid needle
Of the first 3, what is the best bow aspect
swift siren
Does anyone have a full guide for builds?
plain river
Of the first 3, what is the best bow aspect
Hera > zag > chiron
plain river
Does anyone have a full guide for builds?
Yep give me a second
plain river
Does anyone have a full guide for builds?
plain river
is that the hidden aspect?
That’s the hidden aspect of the spear
livid comet
Ye
turbid needle
That’s the hidden aspect of the spear
how to obtain?
Kill hades enough times?
I have like 5 kills
plain river
how to obtain?
Have 5 aspects unlocked
livid comet
uhh dialogue rng
turbid needle
Have 5 aspects unlocked
wait thats it??
livid comet
and aspects, yeah
plain river
wait thats it??
For guan-yu
turbid needle
o
cunning urchin
Yep give me a second
What about a first?
turbid needle
well thanks!
plain river
What about a first?
🔫
plain river
Water isn’t super effective against Nyaanyaa? 
livid comet
well thanks!
sorry, GY with charged skewer ends up playing like a better bow so 😂
plain river
Hera > Beowulf > GY > Rama > Zag > Chiron
livid comet
Rama is fun but slooow
lucid oar
beo > hera 😠
plain river
Hera > Beowulf > GY > Rama > Zag > Chiron
best bow aspects in that order
turbid needle
is guan-yu good
lucid oar
Yes
plain river
yes
lucid oar
But Rama > gy imo
livid comet
you need some skill to build it imo
turbid needle
ok so far my favorite aspect is the zeus shield
cunning urchin
Did you just put Guan Yu over Rama? Smh.
cunning urchin
But Rama > gy imo
Exactly.
plain river
Did you just put Guan Yu over Rama? Smh.
cunning urchin
But.
livid comet
and a bit of rng manipulation
cunning urchin
beo > hera 😠
No.
plain river
You don’t need rng manip for gy
livid comet
like, if you don't get Charged Skewer, it's pretty rough
livid comet
or aph or art on flourish
lucid oar
i can’t go fast on hera
cunning urchin
i can’t go fast on hera
That's not a Hera problem.
lucid oar
😭
livid comet
GY with Hermes + Aph on flourish
cunning urchin
That's a not Croven problem.
plain river
GY with Hermes + Aph on flourish
Swift flourish is like not important on GY
Not over more dashes for safety or hyper delivery for damage
lucid oar
Hyper sprint + rush delivery
ashen shoal
I find hyper sprint often walks me into stuff
the amount of damage I've taken from walking into lava with hyper sprint
cunning urchin
I find hyper sprint often walks me into stuff
That's not a Hyper Sprint problem.
livid comet
Yeah, I tend to pick boons that I can play well
lucid oar
nyaanyaa on fire rn
livid comet
Hyper sprint isn't one of them
plain river
Boons != bad because you have a skill issue with them
cunning urchin
Only way to get better at them is to use them, though. 
livid comet
eh
ashen shoal
hyper sprint is only good for me during battle hajgjsjg walking is hard enough irl as it is
livid comet
dashes > speedy flourish > hyper sprint
cunning urchin
On their own, I agree, yeah.
livid comet
now
plain river
dashes > speedy flourish > hyper sprint
📉
livid comet
Daedalus or Hermes?
tight basin
If you don't get rd, more dashes are probably gonna be better
plain river
Hyper sprint -> rush delivery is significantly more helpful then swift flourish
lucid oar
Depends
cunning urchin
That's a trick question.
plain river
take chaos
cunning urchin
The correct answer is Lady Aphrodite.
livid comet
The correct answer is Lady Aphrodite.
Big, girthy damage bonus
plain river
The only aspect which I would consider picking up swift flourish on would be chiron if it was an epic swift flourish
livid comet
bruh
lucid oar
The only aspect which I would consider picking up swift flourish on would be chi...
same
tight basin
in my last run I took coins over aphro despite having a paupers curse
Based
cunning urchin
lucid oar
On the weapons I play, arty
plain river
Aphro better for consistency in most cases
lucid oar
just shackle Lmao
cunning urchin
Lady Aphrodite. Always.
plain river
Oneshotting enemies consistently >>> doing way over their max hp inconsistently
tight basin
Just get the crits
cunning urchin
Obviously.
plain river
artemis has her aspects
livid comet
Aph + Pressure Points 👀
lucid oar
thoughts on my last run having a 5 god pool with no aphro 💪
plain river
PP only good with hunters mark
cunning urchin
Lady Aphrodite told me that she loves me. When did the others ever tell you that.
plain river
In a dream
cunning urchin
Plus, she's the main character.
Dusa said so. And Lady Aphrodite herself said so.
plain river
Plus, she's the main character.
Lies, Bouldy is the main character you heretic
livid comet
might have to give Hades a go on my new laptop with its 144Hz display
cunning urchin
Lies, Bouldy is the main character you heretic
cunning urchin
cunning urchin
might have to give Hades a go on my new laptop with its 144Hz display
60Hz to 144Hz makes a pretty big difference for display lag normally.
Assuming you had 60Hz before.
livid comet
aye
cunning urchin
Definitely noticeable if you play something like fighting games especially.
livid comet
not really sure what to do to improve my runs at this point
is GY doable at 32 heat?
hang on
priv status or fam fav?
👀
also depends on build I assume?
lucid oar
Family favourites
livid comet
charged skewer build?
lucid oar
Yep
livid comet
how do you deal with no early hammer tho
lucid oar
That’ll rely on one shotting things so FF is better than PS
Special without the hammer is still decent early on
livid comet
yeah, what I found was that it's hard to get consistent clears even on low heat
lucid oar
I didn’t get hammer till chamber 11 in my 50 heat guan yu
lucid oar
I did yeah
livid comet
🤔
I remember back when they nerfed the GY special
...
dark days
blood price update I think?
aight
so you must be doing something different to what I'm doing
lucid oar
Yes
livid comet
worse against bosses 🤔
lucid oar
I got a super lucky build for 50 so bosses weren’t an issue
lucid oar
I’d probably still use fiery presence either way
The build I got is not unrealistic at all at 32 heat though
plain river
worse against bosses 🤔
Better for your average room
Oneshotting enemies more often means less damage taken and less time spent
turbid needle
Best sword aspect (of the first 3)? They all seem kinda bad
lucid oar
Nemesis
turbid needle
alright tyvm
livid comet
lucid oar
Looks fine
livid comet
yeah, I was using golden touch to farm blood and diamonds at styx iirc
tight basin
just in time for hades 2
rose nexus
Rail attack, fist attack, spear attack
Primarily
Zeus aspect shield special
His call is very strong
livid comet
and Jolted is pretty good
livid comet
Flurry jab Zeus attack spear is strong as hell
ah yeah, makes more sense now
cunning urchin
Lightning Strike needs Static Discharge to be great, but that's easy to get.
plain river
Fo2 is the best boon for zeus builds fr
plain river
Plus Fo2 just good for speed in general
Makes enemies spawn sooner and makes enemies move to you faster
With jolted it also becomes a dps increase
livid comet
yep
snow iron
Thoughts on zag aspect Malphon? Is it viable?
plain river
Thoughts on zag aspect Malphon? Is it viable?
It’s the 2nd best malphon aspect
Wdym by viable though
snow iron
Can you compete with the other aspects?
plain river
Demeter > zag > talos and gilgamesh
snow iron
Idk I’m used to the default options being bad in games
snow iron
Demeter > zag > talos and gilgamesh
I main Demeter
plain river
“Compete” in what sense
snow iron
Question came from the fact that I main Demeter but pretty much main light attacks and only use cutter when it’s charged. I was wondering if I should switch to zag
plain river
Speedrunning? High heat?
livid comet
I would say it does better if you're only attacking
demeter is focused on casts right?
plain river
demeter is focused on casts right?
livid comet
gdi
plain river
Demeter is gigacutter
snow iron
I saw “land 12 hits” and my neurons activated
livid comet
if you only occasionally use the special, then yeah, you're probably better off using zag fists
I mean that's like
extra damage every 12 hits?
plain river
extra damage every 12 hits?
A sizable amount of extra damage every 12 hits
snow iron
If you’re using the cutter when it’s charged
Pretty much the only time I use if
plain river
Pretty much the only time I use if
Then you’re playing demeter fine
thorn tendon
do talos cast builds actually work though
plain river
do talos cast builds actually work though
Yes
snow iron
Then you’re playing demeter fine
Yeah the more I think about it the rng chance to dodge isn’t worth missing out on the chunk damage
tight basin
it tells you when the upper cut is charged lol
plain river
I always forget to special
The text saying “cutter charged” is a pretty good reminder
uneven jacinth
Its possible to get above 100% dodge and not be touched right?
lucid oar
Yep
plain river
Its possible to get above 100% dodge and not be touched right?
100% dodge is only attainable temporarily
uneven jacinth
with the call boon yeah
plain river
with the call boon yeah
Or through ruthless reflex
I would advise against ruthless reflex though
white pasture
with the call boon though with smoldering you can keep it like 100% uptime
except for like the first 5 seconds of a fight
plain river
Depends on whether or not you care about your time
uneven jacinth
my only legendary weapon rn is zagreus spear
white pasture
Yeah you can get like 30% plume, 15% gloves, and 10% normal Hermes dodge at worst
Which is like 55
cunning urchin
is it worth it
I mean even just getting close to 100% is already absurd for survivability.
white pasture
Add in a ruthless reflex sometimes and it's generally enough to bash EM4
plain river
Yeah you can get like 30% plume, 15% gloves, and 10% normal Hermes dodge at wors...
Ruthless reflex puts it +50%
You can get better then common hermes dodge
And 30% from plume seems like lowballing from what I remember
white pasture
Yeah I'm low estimating
plain river
And you can get second wind as well
cunning urchin
Ruthless Reflex is gonna make your EM4 fight worse.
white pasture
Wait why so?
plain river
Only having 1 dash for em4
white pasture
Ah but with 55% base dodge chance you just sit in a corner
cunning urchin
Nah.
white pasture
And rely on I frames + dodge
plain river
Dashing is also your dps on most weapons
cunning urchin
Problem with Ruthless Reflex's dodge chance is you need to i-frame a hit first for it to take effect... But it's usually that first hit that's the problem that you'd need dodge chance for.
You also just lack mobility too much.
Ruthless Reflex with like an epic Greatest Reflex would maybe be better than the same with Greater Reflex... but that relies too much one specific boon at high rarity.
white pasture
I guess for like 40-50 heat i-framing + dodge tank wouldn't be enough to offset?
plain river
Movement and dps and defensive capabilites of an extra dash are just way better
cunning urchin
There's too many times where there's downtime before the next attack anyway and your Ruthless buff just wears off before things get chaotic again.
It's not like you can't make it work, but it's not usually recommended.
Also a good chance you'll be hurting for time.
Some weapon aspects can definitely get away with it better than others.
still vortex
Man serrated point hammer on spear really messes me up with those short dashes.
cunning urchin
Yeah, definitely will take some practice.
Best idea is to double down on damage with boons like Tidal Dash and Deadly Strike + Hunter's Mark.
And get Attack and Dash-Strike boons from Master Chaos.
remote phoenix
for eris rail do i go for rocket bomb or cluster bomb if i am given both as an option?
tight basin
rocket
i think rocket locks out more things?
and it's also just a really good hammer
plain river
Rocket takes out hazard bomb
Cluster bomb takes out triple/hazard
But you take rocket because it’s better dps
proven magnet
Question
Aspect of rama
Artemis on attack
Dionysus on special
And aphrodite on dash/cast
Heart rend and low tolerance
To chunk both bosses and have a decent coverage for many small enemies
valid dagger
Where is the question
valid dagger
OR there's a better idea than this
Heartrend is overkill and Low tolerance is pretty unreliable in that scenario
You can replace the Artemis attack with an Aphro attack instead so your Arty keepsake is free and you can take it into Asphodel for the dash
And that’s your whole build right there
The rest is up to the hammers
proven magnet
Or a lucky anvil
proven osprey
damn that's some nice piece of advice
valid dagger
You can get a good special, a nice call for damage/iframes, maybe some cast like Phalanx because it helps create openings etc but it’s all just an addition at this point
proven magnet
I had aphrodite on attack last run but I was wondering what's better, raw numbers or crit
valid dagger
damn that's some nice piece of advice
I cant tell if this is sarcasm or something
proven magnet
Probably is
valid dagger
I had aphrodite on attack last run but I was wondering what's better, raw numbe...
They’re both good, Aphro is more consistent and Weak helps you survive better.
proven osprey
I cant tell if this is sarcasm or something <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Hey not at all
proven osprey
Promise
past terrace
so hows a good way to start understanding and making builds? usually i just run around and find whatever works
lucid oar
The core of it is: fast attack -> flat damage (lightning/hangover), slow attack -> percentage damage (usually Aphrodite or Artemis)
twin cloak
tree sucks
feral night
has anyone rewritten this to be better or are we just keeping it because of the meme
by that you mean long runon sentence
there are two sentences in that entire thing, only one of them is a runon
it would be better as a semicolon but i don't think that's how it works
tight basin
tree sucks
So true
elder osprey
I heard there are some challenges on the Pact of Punishment that are basically free heat, can anyone tell me what those are?
feral night
if you're used to the game td3 is basically a free 6 heat
the early stages of hl don't do much
elder osprey
I mean I am pretty used to the game I'd say but I don't think I can finish the game in 20 minutes
or at least it'll be really close
elder osprey
yeah that should work
feral night
and you should turn on fo2 early because it's a big learning curve and you gotta get used to it
it's definitely a harder pact but needed for speedrunning and once you're used to it you won't be able to turn it off
if you have stubborn defiance lc4 works very well, very fun pact
as long as you have dark foresight uc is usually free
that's about all the free ones, but heat gets harder as you stack pacts on top of others so don't just go doing all the ones i've said at the same time it'll be hard
and don't do js, cp, dc, ri, or ap until you're very high in heat
prime heart
What's a good zeus aspect build
feral night
get zeus special and jolted, pom jolted
prime heart
what to get on attack?
feral night
it doesn't really matter but something with a % boost
languid forum
what is a fun build to try with zagreus sword?
feral night
this one's a bit highroll for new players but merciful end is very good for most weapons
get ares attack and athena special, alongside divine dash
pom ares attack and get impending doom alongside whatever athena boons
try not to get blade rift boons
get the ares/athena duo merciful end, which makes abilities that deflect instantly activate doom
dash strike and shred
regal wedge
Personally i favour what i call the shotgun or sniper build, which are really the same build with minute differences. And ofc a different cast!
languid forum
i tried merciful end it's very fun
ill try out cursed flurry slash
ty
it could be fun tho
which one is flurry
just makes u attack quicker
prime heart
Cursed slash is great
I just sit in one spot and just mash attack
Always works
Aphrodite special and Artemis attack with heart rend on aspect of Arthur and you've got a real winner build
sonic arch
Rolling Knuckle, Rush Kick, Heavy knuckle, what's best
valid dagger
Rolling Knuckle, Rush Kick, Heavy knuckle, what's best
They're all mediocre at best, take Rolling, aka the one that doesn't actively hurt you
sonic arch
okay thanks
plain river
just makes u attack quicker
Flurry also makes it easier to take damage
tight basin
just dont take damage
plain river
Just don’t take flurry cursed slash
primal elm
I haven't played Hades in a long time, so I forgot what boon gives automatic cast. I'm searching for it and found Flurry Cast should do it, but in-game it... changed? Now it cast really fast when I press, but no auto. Could please someone explain this?
lucid oar
Stygian soul from the mirror?
primal elm
No, Infernal Soul
lucid oar
No, you need Stygian soul to have the auto cast
Theres a boon that shortens the time taken for a cast to regenerate - auto reload
primal elm
Oh, thanks!
dense tusk
Any fun ideas for Zeus shield?
rose nexus
What
The auto cast needs infernal
Well idk if it needs either honestly
But you need multiple stones
And you can just hold down the cast button and they launch in a row
That’s what flurry cast does
plain river
Any fun ideas for Zeus shield?
Zeus^2
Put zeus flourish on zeus shield
Get jolted
Win
sonic arch
Is Sniper Shot or Point-Blank Shot better
I feel like Point-Blank is way easier to execute
kindred shoal
hey guys, a question about Hermes' boon Greater Evasion. Does it apply to the triggering attack? It reads:
Whenever you are hit, you have a chance to Dodge automatically.
I just thought the wording would have been something like "You have +20% chance to dodge incoming attacks" or something like that, so the wording is making me think that the triggering attack is not dodged, but I also might be overcomplicating it
lucid oar
You’re over complicating it
kindred shoal
cool, just wanted to double check
kindred shoal
okay just died to hades fight because.... first form he can't hit you through pillars with spear, second form he can??
I was well on the other side of it, attack couldn't have peaked around
still vortex
How many time you unleash a lvl four aid like artemis, just to have the boss throw up a bull crap shield.
tight basin
this is why we know when the boss gets the bubble lmao
also i think i've only used arty full call like maybe twice
wheat sand
Arty call is the last one i pick up
But the times i do
It's fun af
Just chunking bosses
plain river
How many time you unleash a lvl four aid like artemis, just to have the boss thr...
Artemis is really the only one you’d ever push to full charge tbh, all the rest work way more efficiently using 25% charge
brittle nest
bruh I like spear so much but none of the aspects are something I remember to do
I’ve been using Achilles and I keep forgetting to do the thing
regal wedge
bruh I like spear so much but none of the aspects are something I remember to do
Personally I like.the hades aspect cause you can dash out of your charge, take your spin with you and debuff whomever you hit
deft acorn
Best build for bow?
rose nexus
How many time you unleash a lvl four aid like artemis, just to have the boss thr...
Or dad moves away from you so you hit an add with your greater Artemis call 😭
tight basin
Or darkness
deft acorn
Which aspect?
Zag, haven’t unlock the rest yet
rose nexus
Zag bow kinda hard to use before putting blood in it
But Aphrodite or Artemis on attack, Poseidon on dash
Just do lots of dash strike perfect shots
(When the targeting arrow flashes is when you release to do a perfect shot)
deft acorn
Cool, gonna aim for this
rose nexus
Also could use Artemis dash but Poseidon dash will help with Styx and small enemies
deft acorn
It’s my least favorite weapon, idk how I’m going beat hades 
muted sun
I believe
kindred shoal
in such a hectic game, bow seems very slow, hard to react with
I'm sure I'm just bad at it, but it's very unintuitive for me
proper furnace
always be using dash strikes
makes it charge faster for a bit of less dmg, while also being able to move around
kindred shoal
I did notice that automatically released a powershot, instead of needing to time the chargeup perfectly
proper furnace
you still need to time the power shot
kindred shoal
do you? it has the same animation and visuals that seem to play when you dash instead of letting go of the mouse button
as long as you're fully charged
proper furnace
yeah still need to time, dash strikes also look different when compared to standing strikes (Zag holds the bow in a different way)
and fully charged shots arent as powerful as power shots
kindred shoal
I'm booting up the game now to check numbers on skelly
I do know that "fully charged" shots do less damage than well-timed power shots though
kindred shoal
oh
plain river
Zag bow kinda hard to use before putting blood in it
It isn’t though
thorn tendon
in the courtyard each wep has a tutorial in the top left
kindred shoal
yeah I have noticed that lol
they're not absolutely comprehensive about all the mechanics of each weapon though, just basics
valid dagger
I mean it's pretty straight forward
thorn tendon
it tells you how to dash strike /shrug
kindred shoal
thanks I guess lol
still vortex
Or dad moves away from you so you hit an add with your greater Artemis call 😭
Yeah dad throwing darkness or shields is kinda bull crap too, but my latest gripe was Charon shielding up as I hit Artemis aid lvl 4.
livid comet
mornin
still vortex
Charon, does that help?
throwing a shield = changes phases and has a blue crystal invulnerable bubble around him until the phase change animation is over?
Just wondering if using figurative language and idioms is hard for you to understand due to a medical condition
lucid oar
throwing a shield literally happens in game
still vortex
for context, this is what I first said
#h1-builds-and-combat message
vagrant phoenix
Hey I want to use merciful end with divine dash how would that work? So I just dash to trigger it?
iron barn
you need something to apply doom first obviously but yeah
you have to dash through the enemy
lean hornet
Hey I want to use merciful end with divine dash how would that work? So I just d...
Not sure if you can get ME with only Athena dash as reflect, might be wrong though
plain river
Not sure if you can get ME with only Athena dash as reflect, might be wrong thou...
You need divine strike or divine flourish but they were asking if divine dash would provoke the ME effect
Which it does
tight basin
tmw ME is so strong they nerfed it by limiting the prereqs
deep spear
does the rails specials auto lock not work for anyone else?
livid comet
YESS
FINALLY
my first high heat GY clear in 2 years
not my best
but I worked with it
turbid needle
https://prnt.sc/U5JEalFUwWdI Is there ever a reason to not take a chaos gate in the first room
Does this ever WORK? Like is it a good hammer if you play around it?
thorn tendon
no unfortunately
plain river
https://prnt.sc/U4WkWH6jkKJf
It always works just not the way you think it does
5% of your obols is tagged on as damage affect additive and crits and every source of damage boost
turbid needle
is razor shoals good
valid dagger
is razor shoals good
It’s pretty nice yea
deep spear
oh
it did work for a minute or something when I entered a new chamber
but then it stopped working
very strange
charred nebula
hello
i have a question
when using the beowulf, does having your cast empowered by a boon stack?
for example if i got artemis on my cast, would each explosion have a 10% chance to crit?
or would it be 10% overall?
jagged geode
What gods should i aim for zag spear?
cunning urchin
Tidal Dash > Lightning Strike > Static Discharge. Poms on Tidal Dash and Static Discharge. Also get some t2 Poseidon boons like Breaking Wave, Razor Shoals...
Alternatively: Curse of Agony > Divine Flourish > Merciful End + Divine Dash. Poms on Curse of Agony. Also look for Impending Doom after you got Merciful End and put some poms on that.
Divine Flourish is needed to unlock Merciful End, but you won't use your Special in that build unless you happen to get Exploding Launcher
Best hammer in both builds is Flurry Jab. Optimally, you avoid picking up any Spin hammers because they'll prevent you from picking up Flurry Jab later (since Flurry Jab removes the spin, so those hammers are incompatible).
plain river
Then if you find exploding launcher and second hammer is charged skewer, you want that. Serrated is like discount flurry jab but don’t take it if you have flurry jab already vice versa
turbid needle
Is it bad if I have over 400hp by the end of a run? I sometimes get these runs where I beat Hades by taking just like 5-6 really good synergistic boons and then dumping the rest into centaur hearts and coins for centaur hearts, and this makes me have so much effective HP since I typically reach Hades with 0 death defiances used (giving me like 1000 effective HP for the final fight, 400 + 200 + 200 + 200). But I'm on 5 heat at the moment, not facing a challenge yet. I'm curious, what do people do at high heat? Do they typically end the run with 200? 300? Hp?
valid dagger
Well it’s fine if you get your build and a lot of hp
But 400 is more than average, you could make use of more boons
You don’t need that much hp
tight basin
I used to do that too lmao
Stack hp and win
At some point you realize "oh damn I don't need all this hp" and start prioritizing hearts less
turbid needle
True, I do find it overkill sometimes. Other times I get hit by hades's circle slash 10 times, big wave 5 times, combined with getting chain-hit by his lasers and end up with a win I most definitely did not deserve
That said, if I just "got good at dodging" this wouldn't be an issue, and I'll admit it's rare that I truly need all that health.
turbid needle
At some point you realize "oh damn I don't need all this hp" and start prioritiz...
Gotcha, I suspected this would be the answer, but I wanted to confirm. Thanks ^_^
tight basin
You also prob don't need the collar that much anymore lol
valid dagger
As for high heat runs, it depends how high we’re talking but usually you wont have that much money to get all that hp so you’ll just be weaker when it comes to everything
turbid needle
What's a good non-collar defensive? You recommend 3-star acorn or 3-star spearpoint?
thorn tendon
spearpoint isn’t great on non hell mode
turbid needle
Wait, you can't change it after Styx, right
thorn tendon
nope
turbid needle
So this would be a predictive thing
If I think Styx is going to shaft me, take Spearpoint after Elysium. If I'm confident, take acorn
Do you just say this because of Styx poison or is there a Hades reason
valid dagger
Just take Acorn
tight basin
Well some people consistently have trouble in Styx so they take spear point
valid dagger
And get gud at styx
tight basin
If you don't have trouble that often then just take acorn
thorn tendon
acorn is usually the best, spearpoint is good with high hp, skelly tooth is good if you’re worried about dying in styx tunnels
turbid needle
Personally I've only died in Styx once, but that said I've only done a max of 5 heat and only 17 hades kills. I imagine it gets way worse later on, but usually I can manage there. TBH I've died more in Elysium
thorn tendon
if you have a bad build it’s p awful
turbid needle
In that case, I'll probably just go acorn all the time. I haven't found Styx particularly challenging (I do find hades particularly challenging though)
(and sometimes Theseus/mino, that fight kills me sometimes when I'm not on a win streak)
tight basin
if you have a bad build it’s p awful
That can also be said at low heat lmao
turbid needle
It's always the bosses for me really
thorn tendon
i think it scales worse
thorn tendon
like bad build at 0 heat is gonna be (comparatively) much easier than a (comparatively) bad build at 40
especially if you have to do non boss tunnels
turbid needle
Yeah, I've won with builds that were pretty garbage before, and I don't think I'll be able to do that at high heat
valid dagger
You’ll be surprised
turbid needle
https://prnt.sc/rPYD6YeOl4Lk (don't know if anyone cares, but I would personally consider this the worst build I ever won with. I had no idea what I was going for the entire time and just winged it)
Taking the well of charon items from Styx and using them during Hades helped a little
I'm assuming that's also a fairly common thing to do?
valid dagger
It looks okay-ish if not for the hammers
thorn tendon
i wish +2 dashes was my worst build ever
turbid needle
Fair, I was probably too focused on how anti-syngeristic and practically useless my hammers were (I was really hoping for a quick-charge-spin hammer for my 2nd hammer when I took the massive spin for my 1st)
But the best option I had was freaking triple jab
But yeah, the boons probably carried me there
thorn tendon
i mean if you take massive spin first hammer on zag spear you kinda reap what you sow
valid dagger
I’m thinking about what my worst build is at high heat
But nothing comes to mind immediately lol
turbid needle
hey if you think of anything I find it pretty fascinating to see what people scrape by with xD nothing like winning to Hades with 20hp and 0 death defiances left and thinking "did that really just happen" (to be fair I had 144hp and 1 DD left on that run but still)
tight basin
My icy flare moment was willingly my choice at 40 heat because I thought it would be funny but it was pain
I don't remember if I cleared or not
I don't think I did tho lmao
thorn tendon
doesn’t icy flare have like negative pom scaling
tight basin
Yeah
turbid needle
It happens, at least you tried xD
thorn tendon
lmao
tight basin
Icy flare lowkey worse than shackle flare
turbid needle
okay, time for my noob to show, what's icy flare? Is that demeter-enhanced exagryph special?
thorn tendon
flares are beowulf casts
valid dagger
My icy flare 50 build was better than some of the anyheat crap I get
tight basin
On Beowulf all cast boons are turned into "flares"
And on Hera trippy shot is turned into trippy flare
turbid needle
oh I don't have beowulf yet so that explains my confusion
turbid needle
How do you unlock it? The only one I even know how to unlock is Guan-yu
tight basin
Pinned in #h1-story-discussion
turbid needle
Pinned in <#521035166471159828>
thanks!
tight basin
All hiddens are pinned there
valid dagger
hey if you think of anything I find it pretty fascinating to see what people scr...
|| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/903215893998346251/976852492220522526/Hades_SUufabMQ7N.png ||
turbid needle
Surprised it's in the story channel, wouldn't have thought to look in the lore area
No-ability-boon victory at 45 heat, amazing
tight basin
Yo is that seeking fire
thorn tendon
ap2 so free
tight basin
So true
valid dagger
Indeed
thorn tendon
i wonder if shadow presence is better there
tight basin
Wait fated authority is so based
turbid needle
wait a second, what weapon is beowulf
tight basin
Hidden shield
turbid needle
OHHH
tight basin
Looks like a spaghetti plate
turbid needle
I thought it was the gun. I already have a maxed shield of zeus. No way beowulf is better than zeus right?
tight basin
Lmao
thorn tendon
sometimes
tight basin
Situational
valid dagger
Most of the time
tight basin
But most of the time beo is better
Zeus is better at extremely high heats, beo is better at speedrunning and highish heats
What's beos heat limit, 61?
valid dagger
60
tight basin
Dc1 is manageable I think it's mainly dc2
turbid needle
Wow, so after looking at the guides to unlock the hidden weapons, I now know why the only one I knew how to unlock was Guan-yu... because that's the only one you need to do anything even remotely intentional to unlock 
the rest is just buying weapons and investing tblood into them
tight basin
60 is no ri3 tho so dc2 was taken here lmao
tight basin
Yeah
thorn tendon
ri4 without 3 when
tight basin
Just get fully loaded c3 tbh
valid dagger
You could do 62 with some Cshot memery but it’s way slower
You’ll time out so often
tight basin
Oh fun
thorn tendon
if chaos can do 61…
valid dagger
Unironically worse than Chaos and Zag at cshot high heat
valid dagger
Beo at anything less than 55 is so good tho
tight basin
You can't
tight basin
Trials don't give duos lol
tight basin
Take it for ddash tho tbh
turbid needle
Who the heck made it so that trials can't give duos?
And why did the game not tell me?
turbid needle
Take it for ddash tho tbh
truu
That way I can get ME later and then dash into them
tight basin
You're literally making gods angry at each other I don't think they'd want to cooperate with each other
turbid needle
You're literally making gods angry at each other I don't think they'd want to co...
Technically the gods angry at me not each other, no?
thorn tendon
and mashed through it oops
turbid needle
But is what it is
tight basin
Kinda both
Because if you got picked second over someone else I'd imagine you'd resent the other person a bit too
turbid needle
got divine dash let's goo 
tight basin
Based
cunning urchin
Is it bad if I have over 400hp by the end of a run? I sometimes get these runs w...
At high heat, we just do whatever works tbh. Sometimes that's a lot of HP. If you have more HP than you need in your runs now, you can focus more on DPS instead to speed up your runs. But that said, if the strat is working for you, there's no real need to change it other than just to save time.
cunning urchin
Surprised it's in the story channel, wouldn't have thought to look in the lore a...
That's because that used to be #hades-story-spoilers and was the only channel where spoilers were allowed in early access.
turbid needle
ahh okay that makes sense, thanks ^_^
plain river
Why?
It makes sense if you think about it they’re fighting over you getting their boons specifically
turbid dragon
Speaking of, using Demeter's greater call against her when she's trying to kill you is hilarious. she gets so angry i love it
likewise when hades' call when fighting against him. he gets annoyed every time
"Father!" What!?
"Father!" Oh shut up
It's the little things.
turbid needle
Wait, would that legendary give me a 4th charge of DD? Or is it like Athena where it would replenish one
uncut lintel
Woah! I don't think I've seen that one before, that's cool!
thorn tendon
adds a slot
plain river
https://prnt.sc/xXegpEgYpG2H
4th dd
It gives you another dd and another dd slot if you’re already at full
turbid needle
https://prnt.sc/Fg8OsiT5zjQx Epic. It's a shame I won't need them though, because I'm using merciful end + doom attack + flurry jab + divine dash xD (with impending doom for an extra kick)
Glad I got the prophecy at least ^_^
plain river
Awfully confident
Rightfully so but you never know
turbid needle
Haha fair, I wouldn't want to jinx it, in that case, let it be said - anything can happen.
charred nebula
The former
thank you :)
what would u guys day is better to put on beo cast, poseidon or artemis?
plain river
what would u guys day is better to put on beo cast, poseidon or artemis?
Poseidon >>>>>>>> artemis
charred nebula
Poseidon >>>>>>>> artemis
gotcha, thanks
and on beo, is it better to focus on the cast, attack, or both?
plain river
Cast
charred nebula
thanks :)
idek why i asked that, i was thinking that buffing the attack would also buff the explosion, but then as soon as i posted the question i realized what the answer was lol
plain river
Poseidon on cast -> Artemis on strike-> mirage shot
charred nebula
Poseidon on cast -> Artemis on strike-> mirage shot
5head plays
meager geyser
Artemis Cast on Beowulf is super bad
not only its range is abysmally tiny, it's not even saved by its ability to crit as it's only 10% chance
tight basin
also not good damage to begin with
meager geyser
yeah
unborn nest
icy flare is god awful
plain river
not only its range is abysmally tiny, it's not even saved by its ability to crit...
Just like true shot
twin cloak
Artemis Cast on Beowulf is super bad
I mean
it's still 3rd best cast
tho I guess 3/8 isn't really that impressive
tight basin
i mean it's probably only 3rd because of mirage access
actually wouldn't it be 4th because it'd be like
flood, passion, trippy
rose nexus
Slicing Flare my beloved
charred nebula
what’s better on the bow attack and special, poseidon or artemis? i’m leaning towards artemis
also for the special, do status effects apply per arrow, or per trigger?
meager geyser
it applies per arrow
rose nexus
But Zeus special effect has an internal cooldown
So you won’t get it to trigger for each arrow
Just fyi
meager geyser
Actually what's the best build for Chiron again?
rose nexus
If you get concentrated volley, aphro attack Artemis special with heart rend is great
Relentless volley helps too
If Chiron is low leveled you’re better off trying hangover
Aphro attack Dionysus special and low tolerance
Either way you go, tidal dash helps in Styx
meager geyser
gonna have to try that out later
charred nebula
But Zeus special effect has an internal cooldown
i was wondering exactly that lol
charred nebula
it applies per arrow
thanks :)
valid dagger
And icy 4th
lucid oar
Fr
twin cloak
Flood passion trippy
trippy sux
tepid lichen
what is best attack for hestia
lucid oar
Aphro or shackle
tepid lichen
should I use the mirror backstab affinity too
lucid oar
The other one is a lot better
tepid lichen
does hunter dash scale with hestia
like if I reload, dash and then shoot will I get the boost from hunter dash
proven osprey
yes
remote jackal
Hey
I always played Hades on my own, ignoring the internet
What are the best weapons/build according to you ?
What is beo ?
Beowulf shield ?
remote jackal
I think personnaly the bow is bad
What is the "nonshield heat aspect" ?
I find myself way too rooted when shooting with bow
maybe i'm using the wrong bow tho
plain river
I find myself way too rooted when shooting with bow
Are you dash striking with bow?
remote jackal
not that much
plain river
Dash striking is how you make bow mobile and how you get most of your bow dps
remote jackal
oki thanks
plain river
It makes it charge 33% faster then standing striking iirc
remote jackal
nice
cunning urchin
It makes it charge 33% faster then standing striking iirc
Where'd you get that 33% from?
plain river
Where'd you get that 33% from?
Is it not? I swear I’ve been told that before
If it isn’t that’s on me for not checking myself
valid dagger
I have never heard that
cunning urchin
Is it not? I swear I’ve been told that before
Idk. The only ones I can find claiming that are you and @tight basin since September.
remote jackal
By playing it, I believe it's more 33% of full charge is charged after dashing
cunning urchin
Hmmm no. Definitely not.
tight basin
Idk. The only ones I can find claiming that are you and <@384127040992837633> si...
I remember it's 33 because at some point we compared dash striking on rama to epic swift strike and it was like 2 frames faster or something than swift strike lol
@neat mauve do you have the copy pasta lol
cunning urchin
Who is we?