h1-discussion

[chrome reef]

I have used Achilles maybe once on accident

[upbeat kiln]

like its good i guess

[reef zodiac]

It’s not terrible but I’d say it’s pretty bad, especially before you get the duo

[upbeat kiln]

but you kinda need to base your entire build around blades

[chrome reef]

Yep

Can confirm

[fast willow]

yeah before the duo pretty terrible

[reef zodiac]

Your loss. +150% damage to 4 casts (every time you rush which is a very easy fast thing to do) is really good

[upbeat kiln]

proxy poppin off

[lone kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/myman-rickandmorty-gif-5032364

[fast willow]

but when you actually have hblades, it's still good because hblades is so good

[chrome reef]

What the heck does Achilles even do

[upbeat kiln]

damag

[reef zodiac]

I just said what it does

[chrome reef]

JUST casts?

[reef zodiac]

No

Attack too

[chrome reef]

Oh okay

[reef zodiac]

Including spin attack

[high island]

Sure, in Tartarus.

Boss damage is just sad.

[reef zodiac]

But that part is less good because your attack has relatively low base damage

[chrome reef]

The spear is probably my favorite weapon tbh

Hades was my favorite aspect for a while

[reef zodiac]

Again, I’m not building around my cast. You don’t use flood shot or phalanx shot for boss damage either

[high island]

Pom scaling sucks.

[fast willow]

but if you aren't building around it you don't use it for boss damage anyways apart from applying boilingblood right

[reef zodiac]

You only pom it once.

[chrome reef]

you dont use flood shot or phalanx shot for boss damage

WATCH ME

[high island]

Then don't pick it up and pollute your pom pool.

[reef zodiac]

I’ll admit it’s not great in Elysium, but it’s good for everything else imo. It helped me get a lot farther in my hitless attempts.

[fast willow]

fair I suppose

[chrome reef]

Also I have yet to get a Hera run with Fully Loaded

[reef zodiac]

I think it’s generally better than flood shot

[chrome reef]

somehow

[reef zodiac]

Yeah that’s because it’s the 3rd hardest boon to get in the game

[high island]

Phalanx Shot boss damage is great, though.

[reef zodiac]

Not if you’re using Hestia

[high island]

I don't pick up Flood Shot.

[chrome reef]

Like, damn Artemis

[reef zodiac]

You cast once for boiling blood and then don’t really do it again

[high island]

Yes, also if you're using Hestia.

[chrome reef]

Just give me it

[chrome reef]

Whats the hardest

[reef zodiac]

The Hermes legendaries

[chrome reef]

Ive literally gotten both of those several times, what the hell

[upbeat kiln]

what was hermes's 🦵 & 🥛

i forgor

[high island]

You can Cast every other Reload since you can only use your Special every other Reload. That's a lot of added damage with a decent Phalanx Shot.

[reef zodiac]

Without any modifiers, Hermes has a 3% chance to give you the legendary. (I think)

[marble badge]

1%

[void vigil]

i did all my achilles runs with zeus' cast lol even though the boss damage is apparently not fantastic but clearing rooms was great

[reef zodiac]

Oh my

Right 3% is for an epic boon

[high island]

And the deflects can do a decent chunk of damage.

[fast willow]

Hermes got that great rarity after all

[reef zodiac]

Phalanx shot is a better good, I agree.

Wrong reply

Anyway, I can’t use phalanx shot for my hitless runs so

Yeah Hermes is a big reason why God’s Pride is so good

[chrome reef]

hitless runs
are you okay?

[upbeat kiln]

better good

[high island]

You can if you decide that's what the rules are.

[reef zodiac]

I did decide my own rules. And part of those rules is that I can’t deflect

[reef zodiac]

23% chance instead of 3% for something like epic greater reflex or epic RD is a massive difference.

[upbeat kiln]

truly, a bruh moment

[void vigil]

that sounds extremely painful. like even more painful than a regular hitless run

[reef zodiac]

I could probably do a no damage run very easily tbh

[chrome reef]

Or Exclusive Access

[reef zodiac]

Eh

[lone kernel]

probably more than halves since i get fed to crocodiles

uh

sacred crocodiles

[reef zodiac]

Well, yeah actually EA is only decent because Hermes

But EA still isn’t great unless you get it really early

[chrome reef]

Damn gonna die tomorrow

[reef zodiac]

Honestly I could probably do a no-damage run pretty easily. My best run is one that got hit twice: once by small rats in Styx, once by an archer in the Hades fight.

But I didn’t run for too long

I’ll get back to it soon I think

[chrome reef]

really early

well dionysus tends to love me so

[reef zodiac]

I’m sorry to hear that

[high island]

Exclusive Access is great even if you get it a little late. The combination of Lord Dionysus and Poseidon is just kinda rare. No inherent synergy.

Since Exclusive Access per se just isn't a build.

[chrome reef]

What I do on my Gilgamesh runs is Posiedon attack and Dionysus aid

Usually get it by accident after

[high island]

Drunken Strike + Tidal Dash always works, though.

[chrome reef]

its not really a build just what I like

[reef zodiac]

Why specifically Dio aid? I mean it’s good but generally not as good as Zeus’s aid so like

[void vigil]

i havent played since nov 1st so a while too, but i dont do any challenge runs like high heat or hitless or any of the likes. im a humble darkness farmer

[chrome reef]

Easier to get Privileged Status effects since you dont need Rupture AND Jolted

[high island]

Dionysus' Aid is better than Zeus' Aid on its own.

[chrome reef]

Rupture and Jolted tend to hate me for some reason

[reef zodiac]

Not for normal rooms Imo. Doesn’t have the AOE. Better boss damage though, if you don’t have jolted or anything

[upbeat kiln]

Impossible. heresy. unspeakable. heresy. heresy.

[chrome reef]

Also better damage over time to I can deal with the little sh*ts in the Hades fight whacking me in the back

[lone kernel]

i ran Eris drunken strike as a goof, then got a natural splash dash in room four, it was super gud, but yeah no real synergy beyond zeus knockoff still being good lol

[high island]

It does better damage in regular encounters, too.

[reef zodiac]

Better damage to one enemy

[lone kernel]

jolted makes it better right

[reef zodiac]

If there’s two then it’s a lot less

[lone kernel]

or does it need more

[chrome reef]

Also Bad Influence and Numbing Sensation

[reef zodiac]

It doesn’t really do a great job activating Bad Influence

[fast willow]

doesnt EA still buff duo chances though

[marble badge]

no

[high island]

Jolted on Zeus' Aid doesn't actually do too much tbh. But yeah, Zeus' Aid scales well with easily accessible boons. Dionysus' Aid needs Bad Influence and t3 boons.

[fast willow]

oh

[chrome reef]

Also I deal with mini-bosses way better using Dio Aid than Zeus Aid

Especially the power couple

[reef zodiac]

Power couple is easier with Zeus’s though because they can both get hit by it at once

[fast willow]

power couple good.

[high island]

Main reason Zeus' Aid is a lot better tbh is just how easily you can get Smair.

[chrome reef]

Yeah but the stomp takes damage even when I cant hit the damn thing

[upbeat kiln]

hate smair

no burst dmagag

[reef zodiac]

Wym

[reef zodiac]

???

[fast willow]

huh?

[chrome reef]

the heck is smair

[reef zodiac]

It literally is the epitome of good burst damage

[upbeat kiln]

aphro zus duo

[chrome reef]

Oh

That ones fine

[reef zodiac]

It’s the 3rd best Duo imo. Maybe even 2nd

It’s so insanely good

Literally a run carrier

[high island]

It's obviously #1.

[reef zodiac]

You think so?

[high island]

Yes.

[reef zodiac]

Its good in more situations than the other two

But the other two are more important to the meta

[high island]

[chrome reef]

Whats the best duo

[reef zodiac]

Mirage Shot and Merciful End are meta defining

Incredibly insane duos

[chrome reef]

Oh yeah

[high island]

They both do nothing in a lot of builds.

[upbeat kiln]

i never do duo boons

privileged status gang

[reef zodiac]

Speedrun and high heat (not insanely high but like 55 or less) builds alike rely on them

[chrome reef]

I had a good time with the Posiedon sword aspect, using Ice Wine and Scintillating Feast

"But then you dont get the special dislodging effect"

I didnt think that far ahead

[high island]

Mirage Shot is relevant on like four aspects.

Out of 24.

[reef zodiac]

This is true. Again, it depends on your criteria. By my criteria, they are core to the meta and many builds literally rely on them to function at all. Without them we would see a completely different speedrun leaderboard.

[upbeat kiln]

chiron?

[chrome reef]

Imagine if you could combine Hunting Blades and Freezing Vortex

[reef zodiac]

And yet it ascends those aspects (some of them at least) to being the best in the game at least in terms of speed. I cannot overlook this.

I’m not gonna argue about it

It’s just dependent on your criteria

[chrome reef]

You know what got screwed over?

[high island]

You could.

[chrome reef]

Athena Zeus Duo

[reef zodiac]

Eh, it’s more useful than a lot of other duos at least

There are definitely builds that benefit a decent amount from it. But more importantly, those builds are already very good without it.

[chrome reef]

Also I got Max Tolerance + Splitting Headace on I think Demeter

So that was fun

[high island]

Lightning Phalanx is great on any aspect.

[chrome reef]

Except Beowulf

[reef zodiac]

You can’t get it on Beo so that doesn’t count

[chrome reef]

Thats the joke

[devout terrace]

[high island]

It counts because it means it doesn't pollute Beowulf's boon pool.

[reef zodiac]

So it counts in favor of Beo

[chrome reef]

I mean

Yeah

Damn

[high island]

Which makes it great on Beowulf.

[reef zodiac]

[high island]

Which means I was right.

[chrome reef]

Also what the heck is the point of Cold Embrace

[high island]

Of course.

[boreal jetty]

Which makesn't it on Beowulf

[chrome reef]

Yesn't

[reef zodiac]

Zag bow has got to be the absolute most boring aspect to play

[high island]

It's fun when you're still practicing Power Shot timing.

[reef zodiac]

Maybe

[high island]

But once you have it down, it's incredibly bland.

[reef zodiac]

Yeah

Only thing that makes it more fun is if you get the god-build and you’re one-shotting nearly everything because at least then it feels less slow

[high island]

Worst is Zag Bow when you don't have a good build.

[reef zodiac]

definitely

Spending a full 45 seconds dash-power-shotting Asterius is insanely boring

[high island]

Not only do you press the same two buttons over and over with the same rhythm, you also do no damage and have no way of speeding it up.

[reef zodiac]

Lmao yeah

[high island]

It's like being on a train. You don't really do anything.

[chrome reef]

You are the train and the enemies are getting rolled by it /hj

[marble badge]

it doesnt need a whole lot to get going

[reef zodiac]

It’s a pretty decent aspect

I just get really bored using it

[high island]

It's good, just terribly bland.

[marble badge]

just suffers from the typical bow problem of being hammer reliant and it's not the most inspired aspect design

[lone kernel]

i love zag bow

i agree its not the best bow but it just feels good to play

[reef zodiac]

Nobody is arguing that it’s not good

[lone kernel]

since i so often go for meme death engines, its nice to get some straightforward game here and there lol

[reef zodiac]

But I definitely don’t personally agree that it feels good to play

[high island]

But tbh it becomes bland when you have hundreds of hours in the game and doing Power Shots is routine.

[lone kernel]

id guess maybe 10 of my last 30 runs were zag bow

im gonna fire one up rn actually

my pc file needs it

[high island]

So I guess that's fine. Not a lot of depth though compared to other aspects.

[lone kernel]

oh for sure

its not complicated

it just rewards good play

[reef zodiac]

Barely

[lone kernel]

like you cant be bad and win w zag bow

[reef zodiac]

It rewards knowing timings at that’s it

Yes you absolutely can

[lone kernel]

not consistently

[marble badge]

ok pancake let's see you churn out that 50-heat zag bow

ez

[reef zodiac]

I didn’t say it’s busted

I’m saying it has a very very low skill ceiling

[marble badge]

not really?

[reef zodiac]

And has very repetitive gameplay

[lone kernel]

it's like the aphrodite's aid of weapons

[reef zodiac]

Absolutely. Once you get down power shot timings there’s literally no more depth

[reef zodiac]

Not at all

[marble badge]

ok but if that's all there is to the aspect and there is nothing else you need to know about the aspect where are the abundance of high heat clears at

[reef zodiac]

Because it’s not amazing

I don’t understand what you’re missing about what I’m saying

It’s a mediocre aspect with a low skill ceiling

[high island]

I think it easily has the lowest skill ceiling of any aspect, yeah. Power Shots is all it has, and the rest is fundamentals that aren't specific to the aspect.

[marble badge]

there are a lot of fundamentals that aren't specific to any aspect but it still carries all the things you need to know to play a bow well

[reef zodiac]

Sure

But that goes for every single aspect

That’s not my point

[lone kernel]

it's not very forgiving

like if your build sucks, you lose

if yur hammers suck, youre gonna have a bad time

[reef zodiac]

Again, not my point.

[lone kernel]

its like, golf

either you do it perfectly or you spend all day sad at the beach and forest

[reef zodiac]

???

[lone kernel]

power shot and golf shot do have a similar timing

[high island]

@lone kernel your points aren't matters of skill, though.

[marble badge]

you're saying that powershot timings constitute all of the aspect's depth, which I take issue with because just knowing how to powershot doesn't mean you can play a bow well

[lone kernel]

what if you play flurry shot

[marble badge]

you also say it's not particularly great or amazing which I also disagree with because it doesn't need a whole lot to gain all of the scaling it needs to clear a run

[reef zodiac]

I didn’t say the aspect plays itself and that if you use it you’re bad or carried or anything like that. All I said is that it doesn’t have depth and has a low skill ceiling.

[lone kernel]

relative to other weapons thats fair

but i disagree it has a low skill ceiling

[chrome reef]

Nah fam, crits are skill reliant, you know

[reef zodiac]

I think it’s good wym

[reef zodiac]

Yeah you already made that joke

[chrome reef]

it lagged on my end

[reef zodiac]

Mediocre meaning not amazing not bad

[lone kernel]

i thought it was funny the second time too ngl

[chrome reef]

Anyone ever tell you the crit input?

[marble badge]

are you gonna argue about the semantics of mediocre meaning "good" too now

[reef zodiac]

I’d say it’s a bit above average

[lone kernel]

i need to set up my toe macros

to get my crit button to work

[reef zodiac]

No. Mediocre means average. I think it’s probably slightly above average so

[reef zodiac]

@marble badge

[reef zodiac]

I think that it is decent, a bit above average. Perfectly serviceable.

[marble badge]

fine

[reef zodiac]

Nothing special, but definitely not bad by any means

[chrome reef]

Simply get one of the mouses that has the buttons on the side

[lone kernel]

nah i built a dualsense mod and im using it

[reef zodiac]

Oh that’s hype

Damn epic razor shoals does work

I love Poseidon tier 2s

[devout terrace]

Bruh

[reef zodiac]

What

[marble badge]

oh angel is here

[devout terrace]

Hi caml

[marble badge]

lol

[devout terrace]

Yeah no zag bow has depth lol

[lone kernel]

Why am I so bad at this

[reef zodiac]

To be clear, I mean depth specific to the aspect. I don’t mean that you don’t also have to know how to avoid attacks, it’s just that that goes for every aspect

[lone kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/760342037962031116/919710931192266862/IMG_2309.jpg

[devout terrace]

Thats also specific to each aspect tho

[chrome reef]

Ah yes

the crits are yours to command

[lone kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/760342037962031116/921149415601868870/83FEDDD2-68C1-4547-99C3-678E4F76D77E.jpg

[reef zodiac]

Oh nice

[high island]

People arguing that Zag Bow is a deep aspect is wild to me lol.

[devout terrace]

Like knowing exactly when you need to dash after powreshoting, when dad is doing his casts+ thrusts, or when its safe to attack

Thats different from bow to bow

[reef zodiac]

[chrome reef]

It is though???????????????????????????!?!?!?!??!

[devout terrace]

Pog

[marble badge]

It's a bow

bows as a whole are pretty interesting to play

[devout terrace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794602387033292820/846195576700665856/catbeplanting.gif

[reef zodiac]

Not this one

[devout terrace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/901889174884466698.gif?size=44

[chrome reef]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/901889174884466698.gif?size=44

[gray apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/901889174884466698.gif?size=44

[devout terrace]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/455088502548463627/876409402343702538/catting-1.gif

[lone kernel]

[devout terrace]

if its so easy then why havent you done 50 on it

[reef zodiac]

bro I never SAID THAT

AHHH

[gray apex]

Do it

You have 1 attempt

[devout terrace]

just learn the powershot timing

[gray apex]

lmao

[devout terrace]

:clueless :

[reef zodiac]

I’m 100% consistent at power shot timing

Well maybe more like 99%

[marble badge]

did you know that all the non-rama bows are 58 heat capable

[reef zodiac]

YES

IF I WAS INCREDIBLE AT THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE GAME

WHICH I AM NOT, OBVIOUSLY

[chrome reef]

Do 50 Zag bow hitless no boons smh

[devout terrace]

retrash doing zag bow 55 with a RI0 DC2 pact is still really shocking to me

[reef zodiac]

That’s not an issue with my ability to play Zag bow, that’s an issue with my ability to play Hades

[devout terrace]

that was without twin or triple

[marble badge]

no relation to whether or not you can do it yourself or not

[chrome reef]

idk man

[gray apex]

wtf did I just read

[marble badge]

just stating it as an argument in favor of bows being quite a bit better than average

[reef zodiac]

I’m being straw-manned

[chrome reef]

correct

[reef zodiac]

Im not doing this

[devout terrace]

just retrash things

zag bow's comfy without hell mode actually

you can do CP0 AP2

[lone kernel]

zag bow is based

[vapid narwhal]

at the end of the day we all suck at Hades

[high island]

We all?

[lone kernel]

I don't

[devout terrace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/901889174884466698.gif?size=44

I suck at arthur cant even 53 it pepehands

[high island]

#h1-builds-and-combat message

[reef zodiac]

I’m more focused on the message under that one

Old ocean’s bounty

[high island]

The entire channel is required reading in this course.

Starting from the linked message.

[lone snow]

i'm a bit confused. i can't seem to unlock the aspect of gilgamesh? i have fists of zagreus maxed out on titan blood, and i fought asterius, but he just made fun of me for being short. am i missing something?

[reef zodiac]

It’s RNG

[lone snow]

ah. took me 6 runs to actually get the fight, so that's annoying

and i really really hate the fists lmao

[lethal island]

You need more than just to max out zag fists

check the pins in #h1-story-discussion

[feral belfry]

@reef zodiac Sure i'll take some tips. What rooms does tight deadline turn off? Like the 45 second room and thanatos? My RNG was soooooooo good I got zeus attack and then jolted in first two rooms and then the 5 cluster and rocket bomb like what else could I do better, I was killing sooo faster after cluster

[reef zodiac]

Than stays active either way. But yes, the 45 second rooms

One thing I’ll say is to go for tidal dash

Tidal dash is far and away the best dash for Eris speedruns

Mistral Dash unfortunately does very little in terms of damage or really anything else

[feral belfry]

Damn, I avoided tidal dash because I thought it would make shotgunning enemies harder

[reef zodiac]

Another thing is that generally Fiery Presence is better than Shadow because Eris-buffed Rocket Bomb with Fiery 1-shots every enemy type in Tartarus

[reef zodiac]

You have enough range that this won’t be an issue

[feral belfry]

Ugh true, I forgot about that. Dang it. That probably would have made the difference!

[reef zodiac]

Don’t worry there’s always next time

[feral belfry]

You wanna shot gun with rockets though, yeah?

[reef zodiac]

Definitely

[feral belfry]

That's why I was afraid of pushing too far away

[reef zodiac]

Cluster Rocket is a speedrunners dream

[feral belfry]

but you can always corner them in a wall I guess

I know that's why I"m sad I didn't break into 9 lol

It's the first time I've ever actually got that combo

[reef zodiac]

Most enemies will die from just a few Eris-boosted rockets anyway, especially with the dash

And your dash can’t push away bosses

If you’re comfortable with it, most speedrunner prefer to use High Confidence instead of thick skin. But I would only worry about this if you’re confident you won’t be getting hit much. If not that’s totally fine, you’ll get there eventually

Also for speedruns, deep pockets is generally used over golden touch since you want to be spending your gold when you get it to get better boosts sooner

Also idk if this was just bad pom RNG but generally Jolted is one of, if not the best pom target for the build since it has incredible pom scaling. Same with Tidal Dash

If you want any more advice with speedrunning or have any questions feel free to ask me or any of the other people here or on the speedrun server

[lethal island]

A huge RNG part of speedrunning is rooms rather than builds

yes if your build can delete rooms very quickly you'll have a fast time but your time will be even faster if you don't have to play those rooms in the first place

[lone kernel]

@gray apex I had blood frenzy in that run just now too

[somber wasp]

So how come sometimes a door will have a skull on it but then just lead to a fountain room? I never understood that

[gray apex]

pog

[gray apex]

fountains are in the pool for free rooms that get offered in each biome

It's just rng

The skull you're referring to is a harder encounter

Those can be fountains

minibosses cant

[feral belfry]

This was all good info thank you. I get hit a decent amount on bosses because I'm not used to the speed increase of enemies. I feel like I can break that barrier now with those improvements and room positioning.

[tawny spade]

i've caught over 150 fish
my reaction speed is pretty good, caught a lot of legendary
but still i have no luck catching Flameater (legendary Asphodel)

Is there some secret i should know or i am just unlucky?

[reef zodiac]

I’m glad to hear it! Good luck!

[reef zodiac]

the most times it can bob without being a fish is 3. The 4th will always be the fish. If it bobs for a 4th time, you know it’s gonna be a fish so you can press the button immediately.

[tawny spade]

i know, i have 60 hours in the game, i've caught a lot of legendary fish

the only unlucky fish is Flameater

[reef zodiac]

When you get a critical catch, there’s a chance of it either being the rare fish or the legendary fish. I’m not sure if it’s 50/50 or what but I know that it can be either

[full nexus]

50/50 due to a bug

SGG is aware and decided it was fine

[lone kernel]

Zeus attack flurry shot kinda based ngl

[lone kernel]

Honestly the only thing for it is buying lures at the well

[tawny spade]

well i want to catch at least 1 fish of every kind

so that's sad

probably ill have to do several runs with +20% fishing boon

[tawny spade]

Crush Shot is more based

when i want to do a cast build

[lone kernel]

Crush shot is pretty based

[tawny spade]

Crush Shot is a way to go

[lone kernel]

If you wanna totally dunk on bad guys, use talos fists with Poseidon special

Pull them in, blow their faces off, then throw them into walls

now we cookin with fire

[earnest vapor]

lol legendary boon in tartarus

[lone kernel]

Based

[lone snow]

how does demeter work with kinetic shot?

[signal aspen]

it shoots a bunch of projectiles

[lone snow]

cool

[reef zodiac]

It’s good

[feral belfry]

12 min damn lol. Bad hammers

[little dragon]

wish more hammers worked with gilgamesh

[reef zodiac]

Yeah none of them are particularly good because attacking or using special is generally to be avoided with Gilgamesh

[feral belfry]

Isn't heartbreak strike purple supposed to be 100% damage?

[devout terrace]

it can vary from 90 to 100

same with her rare

[feral belfry]

ah

[feral belfry]

about to do my first em4 fight

[lone kernel]

Good luck!

Unseen ones is an absolute banger

[real wadi]

Gl

[feral belfry]

wow

well

I had full life and 3 DD

does he have like double HP?

There goes my streak of 47 😂

[real wadi]

Nooo

[feral belfry]

I was not expecting two mini bosses to show up

[calm zenith]

Kick is a fun hammer if you want a very dangerous horrible run

[feral belfry]

that was a lot to manage visually

[calm zenith]

Unless you are really good at dash timing

Like can time your uppers and dash uppers between necessary dash time

Could work if Maim triggered faster

[earnest vapor]

is gilgamesh aspect actually good or is it just artemis crits making it feel strong

[last veldt]

The maim damage isn't affected by crits

That would be crazy over powered (1200 damage)

[full nexus]

It's bad

Fun still

[whole comet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/906287756081254430/921529040999960596/Hades_11-18-2021_60404553.jpg

decisions, decisions... XD

[high island]

Freezing Vortex.

[whole comet]

at the time, i was wondering if i'm incredbily lucky

[high island]

I think I've picked that like one or two times total.

[whole comet]

ares does not even have status boon

so i guess in that roll it just goes straight to roll legendary/duo

[feral belfry]

hunting blades are pog if you have other hunting blades boon upgrades

[high island]

Exchange first, then tier 3, yeah.

[whole comet]

i think i did see all 3 exhcange boons at one point

not sure if i took the SS. Would've if i knew it's 10% per boon lol

[high island]

3 exchanges only happens when there aren't any other possible offers, pretty much.

Actually pretty easy to get with Lady Artemis.

If you went out of your way to try to get it.

[calm zenith]

Maim can crit cant it?

I swear I've seen it crit on switch

[static furnace]

zagreus lying to orpheus about ridiculous things and orpheus actually believing him makes me so happy for some reason

[fickle shore]

Funny how the time I took almost no lava damage in asphodel is the time I cut my dash in half with the Daedalus hammer

That... really speaks a lot about me tbh

[narrow hemlock]

i like to think thats just the general hades experience lmao who am i if im not consistently dashing into lava like an idiot when i should know better after however many hundreds of hours

[fickle shore]

Oh yeah, the Hydra was a joke with chill dash

Not even attack

Dash

That alongside the triple dash attack upgrade and Zeus attack

It was absurdly easy

[sonic mango]

oh

oops

well, rephrasing that

I tried out Extreme Measures on the max, and I got to Hades
I was going so well, i was on an extreme rush of power
then he hit me with a stray spear, as he had like... probably 500hp.

i never felt so betrayed before

[calm zenith]

Serrated point is great yeah

[sonic mango]

nah he hit me with his own bro i got dead

the shield is too good

his third theme bangin tho what the hell

[versed mason]

unseen ones 🔥

[sonic mango]

unseen ones goes hard

[chrome reef]

Yep

True

Vibing to God of the Dead

"Damn okay, somber and hype, great"

"and games over- WHAT THE FU-"

[versed mason]

@lone kernel
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/854479132376694797/921598042015150100/unknown.png?width=876&height=669
no choice really

mind you this is with lucifer lol

more beam

[somber wasp]

Are there anyways to get the charon fight to show up more often? Trying to do the 2 successive battles prophecy

[sonic mango]

just keep going for charon

[old tapir]

in retrospect this thing that happened to me was extremely funny so I made a meme of it https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/riy08f/final_boss_spoilers_the_vibe_in_that_moment_was/

[lone kernel]

It only will appear in mid shops

And don’t try it in Tartarus you’ll probably lose

[mint coral]

just run hestia shackle

[somber wasp]

Rama bow OP

[mint coral]

or hestia + aphro attack

[somber wasp]

I got it, thank you though

[mint coral]

weak very comfy

[lone kernel]

Based

[somber wasp]

Just need to play the damn lyre now and I will have all the prophecies

[lone kernel]

Good luck boyo

[somber wasp]

Still debating if I want to torture myself to skelly's last prize

[lone kernel]

You do, but at your own pace

Don’t jump from 16 to 32

You might get lucky but that’s usually a recipe for frustration

[somber wasp]

Yea probably a fair point

[lone kernel]

You may be done with it, you may just pick it up here and there for a run when you have an hour to kill, you may become a sweaty tryhard

But jumping from 16 to 32 is fast track for burning ones self out and low key wish they had a 24 heat reward too just to help players pace themselves

[somber wasp]

I do like how you can customize it to your playstyle though

[lone kernel]

(My first 32 was a hard carry w smoldering air and Poseidon’s aid which will probably work for you tbh)

[somber wasp]

Like I absolutely hate damage control personally since I am going to be using the bow to carry me

[lone kernel]

Get rip current and smair and try not to die until then

Yeah damage control is a tough pact

It’s free on rama Eris and kinda the fists

But on bow, potentially crippling

[somber wasp]

Yea makes sense

[lone kernel]

Not worth 1 heat

While Rama it’s like free

Special spam cleans it up

[somber wasp]

Def going to take some practice for me to optimize it. I have thanatos companion maxed so need to find the best places to use it

[lone kernel]

So thing is than hits harder but Meg is way easier to aim

It starts to matter on em3 when you can guarantee a shot of Meg on both Minotaur and Theseus

[somber wasp]

Does meg go in a straight line? It always only hit one target for me lol

[lone kernel]

Hang on

This needs a drawing

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/921109898333421608/921623415088091176/17D88CD3-5938-4117-8F10-E5160EB1DD54.jpg

So basically, if you’re facing up

It’ll hit a line perpendicular to the direction you are facing in a wide row

And it’ll just try to hit as hard as it can

[somber wasp]

Ah ok good to know thanks!

[lone kernel]

For the Theseus and asterius fight, dash directly up and immediately use meg

You’ll get them both every time

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/921430260703174707/921444736185798666/40B89550-8049-4A7A-B252-F766EE0FB52E.jpg

And here’s a hand drawn how to use Aphrodite’s aid for those of you that think it’s bad

Tldr: get out of the mindset of hit the zeus aid button and go brr

It adds a step to your normal movement patterns

[somber wasp]

Lol I actually prefer artemis call because it just deletes bosses

And the crit normal arrows are nice as well

[lone kernel]

This is unrelated to what we were discussing, I just had it on the same piece of paper and there was a discussion about aphro aid yesterday

And yeah arty aid is great for dad and otherwise not super useful

[somber wasp]

Ah my bad

[lone kernel]

Nah you’re good

That just didn’t make sense in the context

I just posted a totally unrelated thing haha

[somber wasp]

It deletes thesus as soon as he calls in a God which I appreciate though

[lone kernel]

For sure

Smair

Tho smair Artemis aid is outright bad

I was memeing around w zag bow and used arty call and athena attack into deadly reversal, then got heart rend on the dash…it was beautiful

phased dad with arty aid

55 p chance crit per arrow, crits do 4.5x

[somber wasp]

I love the aphro/arte duo where crits do even more damage to weak

But yea crits are just so satisfying in general

[high island]

[old tapir]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918769288981135380/921629695433396224/unknown.png got 3 of the duos I needed on 1 run!!! Accidentally overloaded my god pool in the process but this is cool, all I need is crystal clarity on the next run and I'll have the duo prophecy

[lone kernel]

wait your last duo you need is homing meme beams

thats like

if i had crocodiles

but real talk meme beam mad fun

[chrome wharf]

smair arty is not that bad if paired with 2nd wind etc

[lone kernel]

I mean sure it’s better than no smoldering but the big full bar vs dad is real solid, feels like smoldering nerfs it a bit

[calm zenith]

Smair ares

[versed mason]

i love achilles so much

whether i mean the character or the spear playstyle

idk either

[versed mason]

does urge to kill negate the damage bonus from the shackle?

[lone kernel]

Smaires?

[reef zodiac]

When does this happen for anything except chariots though? Like I’m not gonna charm a slam-dancer and expect it to help me out. A greatshield might get a single projectile off at best, but a strongbow probably won’t even do that.

I don’t really see a situation where that does anything in the entirety of Asphodel tbh

[old tapir]

update: got crystal clarity on the next run

[lone kernel]

If you’re reliably getting smair death engines up in asphodel, you’re good

Try it

[reef zodiac]

No I just mean the call in general

If you and Nyaa argue that it’s not useless in normal rooms

[lone kernel]

Yep, you can use it on slam dancers, on the asphodel mini bosses, it does get way better in elysium tho for sure

It was fun watching the crusher dude squish giant evil dusa

[reef zodiac]

I see it potentially doing something for Power Couple or maybe even witches, sure. Not nearly as much as another call, but probably a bit of damage.

But for barge or any normal rooms, I feel like you’d be lucky to get any damage at all

[lone kernel]

It’s 2 am, someone else take over or we can come back to it at all

Good night pancake

[reef zodiac]

Gn

[lone kernel]

And other hades friends

[versed mason]

yo pancake do u know if urge to kill gets rid of the shackle buff?

[reef zodiac]

Ofc not

Only core boons do

[versed mason]

cool, i wasnt sure cause 'empowered by boon' could have meant any additional buff to attacks/cast

[reef zodiac]

Yeah it only applies to boons in the core slots

[old tapir]

so i got Maimed Shot this run bc Maimed was the last curse i needed for prophecy
the only problem being
that this run is lucifer gun with meme beam

so i was meme beaming numbskulls for the next 3 encounters

lost a death defy to this stupid situation lmao

hellfire ticks and "shoot a hellfire then stand on top of it causing enemies to activate it like a landmine" strat helped a bit but this was just a very silly moment

[brisk trail]

wtf

i didnt know

that you could get two duo boons

and i swear blizzard shot is the most broken one

i got it with greater recall

then hades dies in 30 sec

my godgauge is full in 7 sec

wtf

[old tapir]

yea you can get a potentially unlimited amount of duos, as long as you have the requirements as listed in codex. I got 3 duos on my previous run because they had overlapping requirements

[brisk trail]

bruh

didnt know that

um

is stubborn roots good

and whose boons is it?

[old tapir]

if you can't see boon lists in codex don't worry you'll be able to buy that once you buy enough work orders

[gray apex]

It’s situationally decent

Athena - Demeter Duo

[brisk trail]

what if I have 100 health

is that decent lol

I picked the attack damage heals 2 but hp go 60% down

cuz i am trying to finish my fated list or smth

[gray apex]

It’s only going to heal you when you have no DDs/SD

[brisk trail]

yes

[old tapir]

note that not all duos are unlocked by "any core boon from god A, any core boon from god B", some are more specific. stubborn roots is like that, but many of them aren't-- look at the wiki to check requirements for your missing duos if you don't have the boon list in codex yet

[gray apex]

The problem with it is outhealing the damage that you take

[brisk trail]

and that means?

[versed mason]

it wont outheal the damage you take like 90% of the time

[brisk trail]

oh it wont

yeah thats what i was thinking

heal so slowly

[gray apex]

Like if you take a hit for 80

You have to run around for a while to get that back

[brisk trail]

yeah

[gray apex]

And you cant be agressive because you have no DD to begin with

[brisk trail]

oh yeah

[versed mason]

its what 1 hp/ 2 sec?

[brisk trail]

so its not that good

[versed mason]

not particularly

[brisk trail]

1hp/0.8s

[gray apex]

Yea it can help you situationally

[brisk trail]

but im focusing on cast builds so i think its good cuz I can just spam cast and hide?

[gray apex]

But that’s about it

[brisk trail]

and whats merciful end? why is it that people say its the best?

[gray apex]

Well you’re better off just not getting hit?

[gray apex]

Athena - Ares Duo

[old tapir]

if you haven't taken stubborn roots yet, take it once for the prophecy at least, even if it sucked the propechy is useful

[old tapir]

requirements: attack boon from one, special boon from the other

[brisk trail]

i think every duo boon is that?

[old tapir]

no

[gray apex]

No

[old tapir]

"core" means "attack, special, cast, dash, or call" here

again, you seem to be too new to have gotten the boon lists yet, look at the wiki https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Duo_Boons

but tbh you should unlock the in game boon list before you start worrying about the duo prophecy. alt tabbing constantly is no fun

it has the added benefit of letting you see all what boons you need for a prophecy mid-run, which makes grinding prophecies WAY less annoying

AND it shows you what all the available boons do

so in conclusion, buy the codex index, also give a nectar to every olympian if you haven't already because that unlocks prophecies for them all like the one you have from the start for athena, and gives you keepsakes that you can use to get specific gods for boons

[feral belfry]

Other than mirror stats is there anything you can do to make legendary boons spawn?

[old tapir]

(this advice will either be very useful if you're new or Captain-Obvious useless if you aren't) legendaries have specific requirements, make sure you have the requirements for the legendary you want

[reef zodiac]

Yarn of Ariadne, Eurydice nectar

[gray apex]

Favor Chaos

[plush eagle]

I DID IT

I FINALLY DID IT

I GOT MY SUB-12 WIN

Sub-10 is my next goal and I totally would have accomplished it this run if I had gotten Sea Storm smh

I also had 2 charges of Meg I didn’t use (including not using her for the final boss)

I was using Eres Rail with Zeus Attack + Call and Poseidon Special + Dash but never got Sea Storm 😭

[fast willow]

for speedruns mashing meg at the start of the fight is optimal

if your build is strong enough you can phase him before he can insta darkness

[plush eagle]

Tbh I forgot about Meg in both Styx and Dad

I was so focused on making sure I hit as many of my cluster bombs as possible and just going ham with the pommed up Poseidon dashes

I got him cornered in the bottom left in the second phase and that solidified it

I didn’t even use a DD

I brought acorn thinking the aggressiveness it’d allow me would be worth but now I wish I had taken butterfly or something

[high island]

Sea Storm is not very important on Eris. In fact, taking Tempest Flourish over something better probably hurt your time because of the knockback.

[fast willow]

butterlfy barely does anything

[plush eagle]

Does more than Acorn in a fight where you had 3 DDs left afterward

[fast willow]

acorn is far better because it keeps high confidence on dad for longer

[plush eagle]

I didn’t have high confidence

[fast willow]

oh

then pretty useless yeah

[plush eagle]

I’m not a pro speed runner yet

[high island]

There are no pro speedrunners of Hades. Nobody's getting paid.

[plush eagle]

You know what I meant silly 😂

[high island]

Just take High Confidence. You'll be fine.

[plush eagle]

I’m going to try another Eres run without Thick Skin and hope for Sea Storm

But instead of tempest flourish I’ll go with the cast

It still qualifies, right?

[high island]

Again, Sea Storm isn't very important.

[fast willow]

wriste tho

im sure he gets something from twitch

[plush eagle]

Why not?

[plush eagle]

Does he still make Hades content? I’ve noticed almost all Hades content died out on YouTube over 6 months ago, which is before I started playing

I feel like Sea Storm is broken especially with double strike

[high island]

The boons you want from Poseidon after Tidal Dash are Breaking Wave and Razor Shoals, maybe Wave Pounding and Typhoon's Fury.

Taking Flood Shot means you're not taking either of those.

[fast willow]

h might

[high island]

Hydraulic Might is decent too, yeah.

Flood Shot also pollutes your pom pool with a boon that on its own does nothing for you.

[plush eagle]

Eres increases that damage by 150% so every 2 dashes is like 300 damage that can crit with pressure points

If you have sea storm and Poseidon dash

[fast willow]

nyaanyaa, do you know if its better to fill cast slot from the non zoos, arty/aphro, poseidon god to prevent it from showing up on the useful gods at the cost of polluting pom pool?

[plush eagle]

I didn’t even take a cast. I could’ve taken crush shot and it wouldn’t have made a difference

[reef zodiac]

Sea storm really doesn’t make a very big difference. It can be alright but it’s really not worth taking another Poseidon core for

[high island]

The steps you're taking to unlock Sea Storm are already costing you time over better options. Flood Shot is basically a cope pick to at least unlock Sea Storm if you don't get the things you actually want from him.

[plush eagle]

I took shoals and fury

[plush eagle]

If I’m not using my cast regardless, what difference does it make? Wouldn’t I want that over the special if there are better special options? (Arty comes to mind)

[reef zodiac]

Just focus on getting tidal and jolted above anything else. Breaking Wave and Razor Shoals should probably come after that, and also imo storm lightning is a good pick if you’re early enough because splitting bolt is huge damage.

[high island]

I just listed a bunch of boons you want from him. Special and Cast are not really among them. Again, his Cast is a cope pick.

[reef zodiac]

Diluting the pom pool from boons that are actually good, and also taking it over good Poseidon t2s

[plush eagle]

I defeated champions at 9:01.86 which was I believe my fastest Elysium clear, but I’m going to need to be MUCH faster if I’m going to get a sub-10 win, which is my next goal, now that I’ve gotten a sub-12

[high island]

His Special is bad on Eris. It keeps knocking enemies away from the blast zone and spreads them out when you want them bunched up.

[plush eagle]

Yeah I know, it’s kind of annoying, but I was willing to deal with it to get Sea Storm. Didn’t realize it wasn’t worth the hassle

[reef zodiac]

Yeah sea storm just does very little

Especially compared to Poseidon tier 2s

Or going for Zeus legendary

[plush eagle]

Idk, 100 extra damage per dash seems pretty significant, especially since it’s an extra 167 damage per dash if it double strikes.

[high island]

Pretty much only Phalanx Shot to unlock Proud Bearing is worth it.

[reef zodiac]

It’s 40 extra damage per dash, not 100

[plush eagle]

100 with eres buff

[reef zodiac]

Also why would you have double strike

[plush eagle]

Why not?

[reef zodiac]

Unless you have Zeus call

[high island]

40 * 1.75 is 70.

[plush eagle]

I did

[high island]

It's not proccing as often as you probably think since it has a cooldown.

[reef zodiac]

Zeus call is alright but I’d generally take storm lightning over it, as long as I’m before the midshop in Elysium. Well, maybe not if I’m out of rolls

[plush eagle]

Eres bonus is 150%, correct? 150% of 40 is 60. 40+60=100

[reef zodiac]

Yeah as Nyaa said it’s 70 with Eris buff

[high island]

It's +75%.

[plush eagle]

I must be thinking of Achilles

[reef zodiac]

Yeah

[high island]

So your name is actually Patroclus.

[fast willow]

but if i dont take a cast wont i be less likely to see stuff like breaking wave, jolted, razor shoals etc?

[plush eagle]

So, if I have Poseidon dash on Achilles, would Sea Storm be more worth?

[reef zodiac]

No

Achilles boost isn’t global

[plush eagle]

This took me a second

Bravo

[reef zodiac]

It’s only to attacks and casts

[plush eagle]

Ahhh

Honestly, if I had used my 2 Megs, brought High Confidence, and Hades didn’t spawn a shield boi, I probably would’ve gotten a sub-10 win

[reef zodiac]

In my experience running Eris, Sea Storm is at best a mediocre boon for if I am stuck with other boons I don’t really want

[plush eagle]

But I also got pretty decently lucky rooms, so that plays a factor. It’s not so easily replicated

[reef zodiac]

How long was your hades fight?

[plush eagle]

And a 2 sack definitely factored in

[plush eagle]

Lemme check, it was def one of my shortest

[reef zodiac]

Then how would you save over a minute from him not spawning a greatshield

[high island]

Gonna pollute your pom pool and potentially unlock Duo Boons you don't want. That's not helpful. You pretty much only wanna take boons that are helpful right away or that don't get in the way of your build.

[plush eagle]

I started dad at 10:41.93 and ended at 11:57.43

[plush eagle]

Honestly the shield wasn’t even that bad. It was maybe a 5 second delay compared to other enemies.

[fast willow]

i see

[high island]

You said you still had all your DDs after the fight?

[reef zodiac]

How could it have become sub 10 if you didn’t get a greatshield? Even if you didn’t have to fight Hades, it still wouldn’t have been sub 10

[plush eagle]

Yeah, and I let him darkness twice

[high island]

Be a lot more aggressive in the fight.

[plush eagle]

Honestly darkness really killed a lot of time

[reef zodiac]

Also, I don’t suggest killing any Hades ads except voidstones

[plush eagle]

I was as aggressive as I get

I only didn’t lose DD because of acorn

[reef zodiac]

Apparently not because you said you lost time to a greatshield

[plush eagle]

Wait really?

[reef zodiac]

Why would you?

Just attack him

[plush eagle]

I thought you had to kill them to clear the invulnerability he gets from summoning them…

Whoops

[reef zodiac]

??

[plush eagle]

I have almost 100 runs under my belt and this entire time I thought clearing the adds is part of progressing in the fight…

[reef zodiac]

He doesn’t get invulnerability from them at all. That’s just what happens partway through the phases

[fast willow]

the only invuln is from voidstones

[plush eagle]

It always happens when he summons though

[reef zodiac]

Just like how Asterius becomes invincible for a second at half health

[fast willow]

nothing you can do about that

[plush eagle]

I believe this may have contributed to my belief

[reef zodiac]

Because he summons at 33% and 66% health

[high island]

Invisible Asterius?

[fast willow]

all bosses phase like that

[plush eagle]

He brought Hades keepsake

[reef zodiac]

My auto-correct let me down I did my best

[high island]

I don't believe you.

Blaming your auto-correct, smh.

[reef zodiac]

Speaking of Hades keepsake, I suggest trying it with Eris. It’s generally the best keepsake for Elysium and Styx

[plush eagle]

I started champions at 8:34.22 and finished at 9:01.86. I think that was by far my fastest champs fight.

Under 30 seconds

It’s almost hard to believe rn

[reef zodiac]

I really gotta get back to speedrunning. I miss it

[plush eagle]

I used to be plateaued in Elysium

[high island]

Anyway, over 1m IGT for Hades with Eris is slow. You can be a lot more aggressive than that.

[plush eagle]

I remember thinking defeating Theseus was impossible

[high island]

Not forgetting to summon Meg will save some time at least.

[plush eagle]

Facts

Also

[reef zodiac]

Yeah always do that frame 1

[plush eagle]

I was fishing for SS which hurt me in more ways than you’ve mentioned

[gray apex]

Is that good or bad

[fast willow]

dont worry, youll remember why you stopped after the 15th tart reset in an hour

[plush eagle]

I took a non mini boss in Styx because it was a Poseidon door

[plush eagle]

Sub-30 second champions is very fast for me

[reef zodiac]

You mean in 10 minutes?

[gray apex]

Sounds more like it tbh

15 resets in an hour doesnt sound bad

[reef zodiac]

I’ll definitely be running Beo when I go back to running

[plush eagle]

I almost never tart reset, but I did reset in like the 4th chamber because I couldn’t find a numbskull hiding behind a pillar off screen and it ate like 15 seconds 😂

[reef zodiac]

Although I also want to get at least a sub 9 with a few other aspects too

[plush eagle]

I don’t get shield

It went from one of my favorite weapons when I was new (because of block) to one of my least favorite weapons now that I care about speed (because it’s by far my slowest weapon)

[fast willow]

my math was a bit off should be more like 45 min

3~ min RTA per reset sounds about right

[plush eagle]

Like, even with trippy flare and scintillating feast, I just can’t get the hang of it

It’s always slow for me

[reef zodiac]

Hmm. Well Beo is insanely fast so

[reef zodiac]

Yeah trippy flare is pretty slow unless you get good chaos RNG

[fast willow]

beo is like the second fastest/fastest weapon in the game

[plush eagle]

Even with Beo, I just think of how much faster I’d be clearing if I were using Eres or Demeter

[gray apex]

Are you not quick resetting

[fast willow]

i am

[reef zodiac]

What’s quick resetting

[fast willow]

but i usually reset the run from ch10-furies

[high island]

Speaking of Beowulf, Speeder Wavemakers with Beowulf today in this chamber might have been the slowest Asphodel chamber I've had all year. https://www.hades-guides.ovh/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Asphodel-4-Left.png

[fast willow]

maybe i should reset a bit earlier

[reef zodiac]

Depends on your goal

[fast willow]

but i always copium and tell myself that ill see sisy fountain survival in the last 3 rooms

[gray apex]

lol

[plush eagle]

I didn’t realize it was considered slow…. I thought trippy flare was meta for Beowulf, at least with Stygian and at least one extra crystal from chaos

[reef zodiac]

I hate wavemakers in that room

[gray apex]

It's resetting but quick

[high island]

It's extra fun if they're Speeder.

[reef zodiac]

Trippy Flare definitely isn’t meta. Flood Flare is meta. Trippy Flare can be insanely fast but it requires really good RNG and leads to a ton of resets

[plush eagle]

Hmmm

What are the main boons?

Other than flood flare ofc

[gray apex]

Artemis Attack and Mirage shot

[plush eagle]

I’m curious and would like to try

[reef zodiac]

Deadly Strike, Mirage Shot

Yeah

That’s the build

[high island]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H7EOP28oyu6t8KrBEfnrN-dQc6H_ssvAyYz3C1O2JOI/edit?usp=sharing

[plush eagle]

Because I want to like Beowulf, I really do

[gray apex]

And dump all your poms in the flare

[reef zodiac]

Then wave pounding does a lot

[plush eagle]

But every time I try it I feel slow

[plush eagle]

Thank you for this

[reef zodiac]

Actually yeah just look at the guide Nyaa sent

[plush eagle]

Excellent resource

[gray apex]

Back to the thunder flare grind I go

[plush eagle]

Why does it feel like educational content regarding Hades is so few and far between? If I hadn’t found this discord, I’d likely never have even gotten a sub-13, let alone a sub-12

[high island]

If you're in need of a guide, how would you know if it's excellent?

[fast willow]

mike slicing flare 50 when

[reef zodiac]

Wym, there’s a ton of guides out there

[plush eagle]

Good point 😂 but anything detailed regarding Hades is excellent IMO.

[plush eagle]

Maybe it’s just on Reddit and stuff

But on YouTube it’s pretty much barren

[reef zodiac]

In-depth guide on Zeus-attack Arthur in progress

[plush eagle]

There’s little guides for newer players to get the first win, a couple intermediate guides with stuff I already know, and like ONE speed running guide

[gray apex]

Maybe soon

[plush eagle]

There’s very little detailed in depth advanced guides on YouTube

[gray apex]

Probably the worst one tbh

[plush eagle]

I’d love a positioning guide for EM2 Lernie

[gray apex]

kill everything

[plush eagle]

I always manage to end up in the lava at one point or another

Because dash strikes are so important

[fast willow]

best advice

[reef zodiac]

Positioning guide? I mean with Beo just try to hit 2-3 heads with each bull rush

[high island]

Well... there's a visual in-game guide. Don't step on the red stuff.

[plush eagle]

I meant in general not just beo

[plush eagle]

I had never thought of this. Don’t stand in the fire, what a revolutionary concept.

Takes me back to WoW raiding days

[reef zodiac]

Yeah just don’t stand in the lava, idk how a guide could really help with that

Doesn’t mean it’s easy

[plush eagle]

Heroic Firelands Lord Rhyolith… shudders

[plush eagle]

There should be some sort of infographic on dash strike routes and like green/red zones for where you can and can’t dash to

If I weren’t so lazy, I’d do the testing and make it myself

[reef zodiac]

Do: Dash to land
Don’t: Dash to lava

I don’t really see what else there is to say

[plush eagle]

It can get hectic with the pools of lava on the ground too though

Sometimes there’s almost no free land to stand on while still being able to hit the head

[reef zodiac]

Yeah but a guide can’t predict those. All they can say is “don’t dash into them”

[plush eagle]

I always just eat the damage because I trade damage for time every single time

[reef zodiac]

I just don’t see how a guide could help with that

[high island]

A guide isn't gonna help you with that, practice is.

[plush eagle]

But this mindset hurts me in clutch scenarios where I might actually lose the game and micro positioning actually matters

[reef zodiac]

Again, not saying it’s easy. But a guide doesn’t really help with that

[plush eagle]

True

[old tapir]

meme beams

i'm on a meme beam kick

[high island]

So long as you don't stay in your comfort zone, you're getting good practice.

If you just stay in your comfort, you're not really improving much.

[reef zodiac]

There are so many runs that I want to do as soon as I max out my file. And I’m very close. Like I want to do 40 24 again (but recorded), or maybe even 45 24. And I also want to do unseeded 50 recorded. And a hitless run. And I want to get an unseeded recorded sub 8 at the very least

[plush eagle]

Honestly I guess I was just thinking of how a guide on EM2 specifically could be helpful. I’m imagining breaking down like, for every common position, where you can and cannot dash to safely, taking into account greater reflex, ruthless reflex, and greatest reflex, to break down the routes you can take and where you can dash to, how to position to backstab the main head without being in the center pool, perhaps manipulating Lernie’s move set so he doesn’t sit still in the center, etc

[reef zodiac]

I really can’t imagine that would be very helpful

But idk

Also I don’t think you can backstab Lernie?

Or am I wrong

[high island]

Can't backstab Lernie.

[reef zodiac]

Ok yeah I didn’t think so

[plush eagle]

This is why I recently switched to Gilgamesh. Demeter + Merciful End became way too comfortable.

[reef zodiac]

[plush eagle]

Oh…. TIL

I thought as long as you’re behind where the head is facing it’s a backstab

[reef zodiac]

Also I don’t suggest using shadow presence for Eris

[high island]

I was thinking more in terms of IGT targets or pacts.

[plush eagle]

That… will DRASTICALLY alter how I go about the fight

I often position unsafely to get the backstab because again, I will always trade health for time

[reef zodiac]

Why are you using shadow presence for Eris?

It barely does anything

[high island]

Gilgamesh isn't gonna make you better at playing Demeter Aspect. Well, not very much. Some fundamentals carry over.

[plush eagle]

Sometimes I even take a DD to Lernie

[plush eagle]

It will make me better at the game in general because with Demeter I just cruise

[reef zodiac]

Don’t do this. Backstabs with Eris give you an insanely tiny amount of damage. I highly suggest switching to fiery, or at the very least not thinking about backstabs since they’re basically irrelevant for the aspect

[high island]

If you're speedrunning, you don't really where or when you lose DDs.

Rail Special can't backstab.

[reef zodiac]

Yeah

[plush eagle]

I suppose I could use a different god pool with Demeter to change it up, but with how broken ME is, it makes everything else feel obsolete on that aspect

[reef zodiac]

That’s not what she meant

She means getting out of your comfort zone in terms of how you play the aspect, so you can learn what’s good and what’s not

[plush eagle]

I honestly have always used shadow presence on every weapon. I guess I never even gave thought to switching to Fiery Presence. I don’t even have any darkness in it.

[reef zodiac]

Fiery is much better for a good deal of aspects

Including Eris

And also Beo btw

And Hestia

[plush eagle]

I also didn’t know the backstab thing regarding the rail. I thought you could bomb behind the target and it’d count.

[reef zodiac]

No

All you’ll be getting is an extra 5 damage from attacks that backstab

It’s pitiful

[plush eagle]

Yeah that’s useless

I’ve been sleeping on fiery

[high island]

Basically, if you're setting goals, there's gotta be a real risk of failure or you won't really improve. So either use pacts that actually challenge you or set IGT/RTA goals that challenge you.

[plush eagle]

I’ll be honest. I almost never switch my mirror. Most of the time I only ever switch to Stygian if I’m going for a trippy build

[reef zodiac]

Your rocket bomb will hit for 60 extra damage on undamaged foes. Add in your Eris boost and you’ll 1-shot everything in Tartarus

[plush eagle]

Aside from that, I usually use the same mirror tbh

[high island]

That's what I mean by playing outside your comfort zone.

[reef zodiac]

^

[gray apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/841266682072530956/921682783208882188/unknown.png

Game is mocking me

[plush eagle]

Sub-12 challenged me. Sub-10 will heavily challenge me.

Also, I tried a 32 heat run

I died in Elysium I think

I’m not ready yet

I need to work my way up to 32 I think

[high island]

Nah, just go again.

Sounds like good practice.

[plush eagle]

Hang on I’ll share my mirror for most of my runs

[reef zodiac]

Oh also try LC4 and SD for 32 heat runs

I assume you haven’t been since you said you don’t change your mirror

[high island]

If you haven't read it yet: https://www.hades-guides.ovh/index.php/eris-rail-guide/

[plush eagle]

Shadow, Dark Regen, DD, Greater, Boiling, Infernal, Deep Pockets, Thick Skin, Privileged, Dark Foresight, Gods’ Legacy, Fated Persuasion

[reef zodiac]

I don’t suggest PStatus at all

[plush eagle]

Why not? It’s so easy to obtain

[reef zodiac]

Or God’s legacy, at least for Eris speedruns

[reef zodiac]

No it’s not. Not if you’re taking good boons for your run

[plush eagle]

Family Favorite doesn’t help me much because I generally stick to like 3 gods

[reef zodiac]

You will have 4.

[high island]

Privileged Status is decent on a few builds. Family Favorite is the default.

[plush eagle]

Razor Shoals and Jolted are both good

[high island]

Eris definitely wants Family Favorite.

[reef zodiac]

One of those builds is not Eris Speedruns

[reef zodiac]

Yes but you usually won’t have both applied nearly as often as you think. All I’m saying is that every single Eris runner I have ever seen in my entire life uses FF

[plush eagle]

Family Favorite feels like muddying the waters with such a random god pool

[reef zodiac]

??

[plush eagle]

Just picking up any old god for FF bonus

[reef zodiac]

You don’t take extra gods

The game will force you to have 4 gods, plus Hermes. Avoiding that actually makes it harder to get the gods you want to see

[reef zodiac]

Don’t do that then.

[high island]

You don't go out of your way to make Family Favorite work. That's the point: it just works.

[plush eagle]

Whoops

I didn’t think about the fact that Hermes counts as an Olympian god

[plush eagle]

That’s a good point

[high island]

No need for specific boons. No need to apply the curses before you get the bonus damage.

[plush eagle]

I guess I just saw the 40% and thought “big numbers”

But if you have 2 gods, that’s 10% extra damage ALL the time

Not just with both statuses

That’s like, objectively much better for most builds I play

[reef zodiac]

The only time you want PS is if your build is centered around two status effects. And you have already planned that you’re gonna get those two effects.

[plush eagle]

I’ve been super sleep on my mirror

[plush eagle]

Such as a low tolerance build, for instance

[high island]

Right.

[reef zodiac]

Yes

[plush eagle]

I feel so dumb

I sometimes take unfavorable boons just for the PS bonus

[reef zodiac]

Don’t worry, you’re not the only person who greatly overrated PS

[plush eagle]

But FF is much better

[reef zodiac]

Yeah that’s the big downside of it

[plush eagle]

Also, can we talk about how weak Jolted actually is for anything but boss fights or PS?

[reef zodiac]

this sounds like I’m referring to myself but I’m actually making fun of the Hades subreddit

[reef zodiac]

???

Not true?

[plush eagle]

They can’t attack if you kill them first

[reef zodiac]

That’s why you use FO2

[plush eagle]

Plus, if they’re not armored, they likely won’t even get a chance to attack

[plush eagle]

FO2?

[old tapir]

Let's apply that logic evenly. doom can't drop if you kill them first

[reef zodiac]

Forced Overtime 2. One of the very important parts of a speedrun pact

FO2 and EM2. That’s why everyone runs 9 heat

[high island]

You're genuinely not gonna have a clue how much damage Jolted contributes without a DPS parser. It's a lot more than you'd think.

[reef zodiac]

Especially if you put your poms on it

[plush eagle]

Ahhh ofc

Okay, but without FO, jolted feels very weak IMO

I can see it being broken with FO though

[reef zodiac]

Not really

It’s insane with or without FO2, it’s just better with FO2

[plush eagle]

Especially wave makers or whatever those dudes are that hit that one combo

[reef zodiac]

It only procs when enemy attacks start as far as I’m aware

So I don’t think that’s relevant

[plush eagle]

So that combo would only be a single jolted proc?

See this is the stuff I would never find on YT. Only Reddit or discord.

[reef zodiac]

As far as I know, yes

[reef zodiac]

I learned a lot of stuff from Haelian videos

[high island]

Jolted on average pulls at least even with your Lightning Strike damage. So that basically doubles your Lightning Strike damage.

And that's before the pom scaling is bad, so there's more potential there.

[reef zodiac]

Yeah I was about to say it has much much better pom scaling

[high island]

Not that Static Discharge pom scaling ever gets bad really.

But you're gonna focus on other things with your poms, like Tidal Dash, so in a typical run it's about even with your Lightning Strike damage.

[plush eagle]

Haelian is the one that made me think double strike + sea storm was strong

[reef zodiac]

It is in some situations

Just not if you’re speedrunning Eris rail

[plush eagle]

I see

I had a small hiatus from Hades after the initial novelty wore off, but I’ve been back into it lately and I really want to get all weapon aspects maxed and all summons

[high island]

Sea Storm on Eris was a staple when Tidal Dash still unlocked it.

[plush eagle]

And I want to progress the story by gaining favor with the gods for mom’s plan to proceed, but I’m using all that nectar to make ambrosia and the ambrosia to make titan’s blood

[reef zodiac]

Ah yeah that makes sense

[plush eagle]

I didn’t know that. You guys had it good back then