It also adds the worst boss in the game but that’s just an unpleasant side effect
#h1-discussion
thorny crescent
But yeah I’d say isaac is definitely worth checking out if you like roguelikes
It packs more content than any game I’ve ever seen
late fog
But yeah I’d say isaac is definitely worth checking out if you like roguelikes
100 Percent gonna give it a shot
never played a roguelike since hades and i love the addicting nature of it
thorny crescent
Buy another controller/keyboard while you’re at it just in case
late fog
also are any hades mods worth checking out?
lmfao
im not one to get mad at games
but i'd like to see it try
thorny crescent
that’s what everyone says until they play certain titles
thorny crescent
also are any hades mods worth checking out?
Yes i would also like to know
Have not checked out the hades modding community ever
late fog
ima give it a cheeky google
steady geyser
Deadcells on 5BC makes me very angry. Still haven’t gotten close to beating it
thorny crescent
I’ve played dead cells for a while
Have never beaten it tho
It’s not the game it’s just me being bad at it
steady geyser
They say beating it on 0BC is just the tutorial
thorny crescent
Probably one of the most brutal roguelikes out there
Like the game does not give you a break ever
thorny crescent
At least in Isaac or Hades you can go for a build that’s powerful and steamroll the thing
Dead Cells punishes you for every little mistake and i kinda dig it
late fog
alr so most mods appear to add things such as being able to adjust multipliers, boons, expanding the mirror of night, adding extra rooms to sections, etc
thorny crescent
Nothing big then?
late fog
i have found one which allows you to befriend theseus and asterius doe
adds over 100 lines of dialogue
and some new keepsakes
whole comet
you guys know that
brisk trail
theres a modding discord you can prob find more info in there
whole comet
at one point, Thessus could be the main protoganist
brisk trail
I dont have the link at hand rn
late fog
yeah i saw that vid aswell
thorny crescent
at one point, Thessus could be the main protoganist
Yeah but they scrapped that
whole comet
would be nice if a mod makes us play as him lol
thorny crescent
I do think that Zagreus was the right choice
brisk trail
oh its pinned in self promotion
whole comet
mod can make it happen 😄
late fog
lmao one mod makes all enemies sprites into zagreus
thorny crescent
Lmao
Dad pulls a funny one
You know what sucks?
Remember Gungeon?
That game’s been dead for two years now
brisk trail
why is it dead? its just done
late fog
oh yeaaah dunkey loved that game
thorny crescent
And the modding community is not that good either
late fog
hades aint gonna receive any big updates right?
brisk trail
hades is also done yea
thorny crescent
why is it dead? its just done
They’ve stopped all support of gungeon as a whole
whole comet
probably moving on to Hades 2
late fog
say whaa
whole comet
😄
thorny crescent
they pretty much abandoned it
brisk trail
wym support
thorny crescent
and gungeon is far from perfect
late fog
did they promise to do more than they've done?
brisk trail
I was playing the game just fine but it happens I guess
thorny crescent
Hades may be done yes but i assume that supergiant is still gonna at least patch things up if problems occur with the game
brisk trail
uh theres a bunch of glitches that will never get fixed
thorny crescent
The thing with Hades is
Hades is already polished as hell so even if they abandon it it’s still a fine game
Gungeon on the other hand is far from being polished
whole comet
about that... games should be that way
brisk trail
I think its normal that devs move on from their games though.
thorny crescent
Game’s spaghetti code on spaghetti code on even more spaghetti code
Which is why the gungeon modding community is not moving forward at all
It’s just way too hard to mod something like gungeon
brisk trail
modding isnt gonna be a priority the devs look out for
some of them do but its not needed
whole comet
mod only matters if money or body-reveal too much models were involved, though the latter tends to the site
thorny crescent
Well see
Here’s how i see it
In terms of developer support roguelikes tend to be a lot like multiplayer games
whole comet
if u look at RE 2 or 3 remake
thorny crescent
People are gonna play em for an indefinite amount of time
thorny crescent
So supporting the game makes sense
With Hades and Nuclear Throne,the games were just pretty much done from the get go
Gungeon is not
brisk trail
why is gungeon not done I thought it was fine
thorny crescent
Barely any content,especially for a roguelike
brisk trail
huh
thorny crescent
Roguelikes tend to keep you coming back to them
Gungeon doesn’t really have that
brisk trail
I think theres a lot to it I played it a bunch
whole comet
well, did they promise more?
thorny crescent
You beat the rat for the first time and you never have to do it again
brisk trail
I played before they put the rat in the game so idk
thorny crescent
And then every single other unlockable is a gigantic grind fest for resources
Now you might say that Hades is in a way also a grindfest for resources so that you can later get certain unlockables
But Hades has a lot more going on than Gungeon so it never feels like it
Gungeon just straight up does become a grindfest after you’ve unlocked every character,there are only 8 btw and only 3 change up the play style
brisk trail
not gonna lie I never saw gungeon lacking in content compared to other rouge likes ive played
thorny crescent
well thats because you’re probably not as attached to the game as i am
Gungeon used to be straight up my favourite game of all time
brisk trail
okay?
thorny crescent
So as someone’s who’s attached to it
I kinda have more complaints than the average player
brisk trail
sure
also if you wanna keep harping on gungeon you should prob head into #video-games
thorny crescent
Yeah true ima stop now
whole comet
do wanna ask a quick question about other Supergiant games
thorny crescent
But like that’s just a thing that happens if you’re a huge fan of anything
whole comet
are other similar games like Hades?
thorny crescent
a die hard Star Wars fan probably hates the new trilogy much more than the average viewer
steady geyser
Yo, I just killed the butterfly ball without letting any enemies spawn 😳
thorny crescent
Yo, I just killed the butterfly ball without letting any enemies spawn 😳
Extraordinarily based
slim grail
anyone watch gladiator? who would win? achiless or maximus? doing a survey now
whole comet
lol that's a random survery, but prolly dun do it here?
thorny crescent
anyone watch gladiator? who would win? achiless or maximus? doing a survey now
Did not watch gladiator till the end but im fairly certain Achilles would body most people
vapid narwhal
there is a new Roguelike that is more akin to Hades than other Roguelikes
Dreamscaper
follows a very similar structure in that runs advance stories with lot's of secrets to uncover
high island
Tell him more in #video-games. 
thorny crescent
steady geyser
Just killed Tiny Vermin before he could spawn any enemies, this build wrecks
brisk trail
Heres pain
That one soul thing recovers and it got the shield
pure karma
@high island Is there another valid strategy for fresh file except ME?
high island
Deadly Reversal, I guess.
pure karma
Sounds much harder to pull off than ME, no?
I mean not to get it, but use it properly
devout terrace
You're not going to survive without ME most likely
Its about staying in fights as short as possible
whole comet
i say the opposite
learn to survive, even if it takes longer
if u wish to rely on speedrunner build though, that's one possibility
rapid forum
I say survive by killing the enemies faster 
devout terrace
learn to survive, even if it takes longer
Thats what heroes/dad savestates are for
You can practice the i frames, dodges etc
whole comet
lol save states XD
imagine u can just quit and reload when you're about to die 😦
wouldn't really mind
devout terrace
brisk trail
so i recently got a boon from demeter that upgrades the rarity every 3 chambers. but it didn't go above heroic. is that the highest normal boons can go?
chrome wharf
Yeah
brisk trail
demeters cast boon on heroic is still really good though
just shredded hades with that
fast willow
is rama shared suffering affected by boon damage (like zeus and ares) or is it just from the base arrow damage?
drifting sluice
brisk trail
its ur base atk all atk boons and crits count
fast willow
its ur base atk all atk boons and crits count
so does that mean that a zeus lighting bolt wont count?
raw herald
It will not
chrome wharf
do attack/special buffs from Chaos and Charon shop affect effects like lightning and hangover
raw herald
No
raw herald
Poseidon often knocks enemies out of the special
I like passion/blade/divine
Maybe even drunken 👀
fast willow
Poseidon often knocks enemies out of the special
oof i just took poseidon
raw herald
It's still good damage, just harder to use
fast willow
aww man i just noticed the fishing spot ||after talking to persephone||
mint coral
F
strong ridge
aww man cmon it’s my birthday
fast willow
is there any keepsake to spawn a dedalus hammer?
raw herald
is there any keepsake to spawn a dedalus hammer?
No
reef zodiac
is there any keepsake to spawn a dedalus hammer?
You will always encounter two in your run anyway, they’re pretty much guaranteed
fast willow
also, i know that you can have a max of 5 gods boons for 1 run but does hermes count for that?
full otter
no ermes doesn't count and iirc it's a max of 4 gods boons
you can increase it with keepsakes tho
pure karma
I like passion/blade/divine
Blade dash? For real?
raw herald
Blade dash is great
pure karma
Should I get Dire Misfortune while aiming for ME? I already have Doom on attack, Divine Dash, Divine Flourish and Impeding doom
fast willow
is the way that you're supposed to play Rama to use the special to get shared suffering on multiple enemies and then chunk with attack?
pure karma
One of the ways yes
pure karma
If I record a victory run, will anyone watch it and give me tips on what am I doing wrong?
high island
Nothing if you're winning.
pure karma
obtuse whale
When I am playing with my chiron bow, I often find my attacks to be more powerful than my special, which is pretty sad because what use is the aspect of chiron if my attacks are stronger. Am I doing something wrong? Does chiron require very specific boons to be powerful?
I've been trying to get artemis boons because that's all I saw on yt vids. My attacks were still stronger tho if that helps
high island
Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Flourish, Heart Rend, and a whole lot of Flourish boons from Master Chaos.
manic bobcat
When I am playing with my chiron bow, I often find my attacks to be more powerfu...
how upgraded is your chiron?
pure karma
Lightning Flourish works?
manic bobcat
if it's low level then yeah, your attack wold do more damage
obtuse whale
should I discard other flourishes?
high island
Thunder Flourish on Chiron is pretty weak.
obtuse whale
how upgraded is your chiron?
it's 4 right now
manic bobcat
ah ok
high island
Drunken Flourish is pretty good if you can get Low Tolerance.
pure karma
I think Chiron is actually hard to use. You need to position yourself really far for it to work properly
manic bobcat
for some jank you can do Frost Flourish + Artic Blast for a 5gum experience
gray apex
Lol
manic bobcat
If you have WInter Harvest it's also really good
pure karma
Drunken Flourish is pretty good if you can get Low Tolerance.
How good is that Dionysus boon that spreads Hangover around?
high island
Peer Pressure?
pure karma
Peer Pressure was it's name?
obtuse whale
i think so
high island
Probably the worst boon in the game.
pure karma
Worse than Hydraulic Might?
high island
Hydraulic Might is decent.
obtuse whale
I think Chiron is actually hard to use. You need to position yourself really far...
cries It's deffo harder then what I have expected
Hydraulic might is decent??
high island
At best, Peer Pressure does nothing. At worst, it overrides better Hangover stacks.
pure karma
I am just trying to find ways on how to deal with groups of enemies with Chiron. This is my biggest problem with it.
high island
Well.
gray apex
Tidal Dash
high island
Get Tidal Dash, yeah.
obtuse whale
I just tend to pick tidal dash
high island
That's the best answer.
high island
Sure, all the t2 boons he has.
obtuse whale
but then I end up using tidal dash for my damage facepalm
high island
Tidal Dash start into Tempest Flourish and then Sea Storm (ideally with Zeus' Aid) is pretty much the best DPS build for Chiron we know of at the moment.
obtuse whale
wait tempest flourish is good for chiron???
high island
Sure.
obtuse whale
I just abandoned it for might seconds ago
high island
Tempest Flourish has very high % damage, and Sea Storm adds even more.
obtuse whale
sea storm was zeus + poseidon right?
high island
Right.
obtuse whale
I was trying to aim for it when I was doing my rail runs but never got it :(
pure karma
What would you put on your attack with this?
high island
It's not too important for Exagryph, anyway.
pure karma
I'd say artemis?
obtuse whale
should I do the mirror swap thing for the ability that i can't remember the name of for the chance of duo boons? I would really like to try sea storm out
obtuse whale
It's not too important for Exagryph, anyway.
I heard that cluster bomb + rocket bomb + sea storm with few other boons can get very disgusting
and that was what I was aiming for
looked like a lot of fun :(
devout terrace
Worse than Hydraulic Might?
whats wrong with hydro might lmao
its just generally a good boon to have
high island
That's why they're playing it lol.
signal aspen
wait does mirage shot even work with thunder flare?
high island
Nope.
signal aspen
im quitting
raw herald
But rd
chrome wharf
rd?
twin thistle
rd?
rush delivery ig
just get epic jolted and cold fusion then only use the cast to inefficiently proc it
plus rd
pure karma
whats wrong with hydro might lmao
Someone was spamming some time ago that it sucked too much and I rolled with it I guess
devout terrace
chrome wharf
hydro might is great in Styx
reef zodiac
that must be insane
It’s not as good as you think it is
reef zodiac
hydro might is great in Styx
It’s only active in the final room of each passageway btw
Hydraulic Might is pretty decent
I don’t see the issue
It’s generally nice to have I’d say
pure karma
Sea Storm Poseidon Chiron good stuff
devout terrace
hydro might is great in Styx
No?
Yeah what pancake said
It doesnt apply until the final room
chrome wharf
is it? oh well
devout terrace
Placebo is real
full otter
i want to try higher heats but at the same time i don't want to lose my streak, even if it's not an incredible one
jade zenith
if you have are capable of keeping a streak going then you should be able to slowly increase the difficulty
full otter
yeah well that's kinda the thing, my highest heat run is 16, and i could go on and on increasing heat every time, but i'm so tempted to try a 32 heat run to challenge myself.
If i go on a 32 heat run when i already did 30 heat it'll be less hard in my opinion, since i am "trained" for that difficulty
gray apex
yolo
white merlin
hey guys, quick question
how do i play bow? i never tried it cause it feels terrible
but i need to clear a run with it for the cheevos
jade zenith
dash strikes
twin thistle
or just use hera or chiron
jade zenith
even with hera and chiron
white merlin
i was using hera with trippy shot
jade zenith
I would still want to use dash strikes
white merlin
but i lost cause the charge shot is so slow
brisk trail
one tip i have
jade zenith
using the normal attack without dashing just feels horrible
brisk trail
is that after every shot use a special immediately after for a bit more dmg
white merlin
and shard regen time is kinda slow
brisk trail
the animation is super quick and it can mean a lot in clearing rooms n "stuff"
full otter
and also another thing i don't understand is how can people have saves with a lot of resources (darkness gems etc) but with just a few runs done, can anyone explain it? it's obviously not the main save file but i don't get it
gray apex
and shard regen time is kinda slow
Try Hera with Crush Shot and Infernal instead
whole comet
hey, is it just me, or FO2 Charriot and Asterius bull charge r a bit unfair ?
whole comet
how'd u even handle armored Charriot if you dun have immune 😦
gray apex
hey, is it just me, or FO2 Charriot and Asterius bull charge r a bit unfair ?
They are hard at first, it takes some getting used to just like most other things, the chariot barely does anything honestly but yea the Bull rush gives tou very little room to react sometimes
gray apex
Oh you mean the Armored Chariot not the Theseus one, then my bad yea
jade zenith
with asterius you need do dash as you are about to get hit so that he just goes into the pillar or wall
full otter
and also another thing i don't understand is how can people have saves with a lo...
cause i'm wondering if it's something related to hell mode since i have no idea about what it is
chrome wharf
and also another thing i don't understand is how can people have saves with a lo...
If it's PC they might have gotten a file from somewhere else
full otter
and do save files not save your attempts?
full otter
like 15
whole comet
and their gems/darkness?
full otter
no they have 20 heat runs
white merlin
they likely got cheat mods
full otter
they likely got cheat mods
like a new save file and modded for some reason?
white merlin
indeed
i imagine its something speedrunners would do
as they dont care about the grind
whole comet
i just give up runs b4 dying and never lose my streak lol
full otter
also youtubers, it's the example i was using
reef zodiac
i imagine its something speedrunners would do
No, they download a save file from SRC
whole comet
didn't some speedrunner also cheat by making rooms predictable?
white merlin
i dont blame them
whole comet
like that 64 max heat guy?
reef zodiac
didn't some speedrunner also cheat by making rooms predictable?
That’s a different thing
white merlin
i imagine styx is a huge run ender
whole comet
u could say that too for fresh file hell mode lol
full otter
No, they download a save file from SRC
what's that?
reef zodiac
reef zodiac
Yeah you should always be dash striking with bow
rose fox
I just woke up from a dream where, during post game, Persephone boons become a thing. Her boons would work like a mini Sysiphus summon where after the dialogue bit you'd just get a bunch of random loot.
Don't know if I'd actually want that added to the game, but it was a cool dream.
rose fox
Also yeah, Bow's dash strike is super good. I sometimes try and get Art dash just to see if I can maximize the damage of the quicker charge.
chrome wharf
like that 64 max heat guy?
the actual 64 heat run itself was played with all mods off
whole comet
but knowing all the room's enemies beforehand is cheat
raw herald
It's not
whole comet
or for that matter
raw herald
It's a separate category
chrome wharf
not if the runner declares the method and doesn't claim otherwise
whole comet
well i just think Hades is meant to play with RNG
so yeah, able to take that away, if people accept that, then w/e
cloud apex
well i just think Hades is meant to play with RNG
It is, albeit the fact you can freely manipulate the rng/route with ingame option of "Give Up" really doesn't help with that
whole comet
but i didn't use mod
and also, only first room i know b4 end, maybe 2nd too
3rd and onward is always random to me
besides, i'm just playing the game with in-game function
so i dun have a problem myself
using mod to change appearance or maybe doing new stuff, that's fine too, if just giving nectars to asterius, you know, adding more funs
but taking away that RNG of the game, i prolly think that's really going far
gray apex
To each their own
whole comet
yup
reef zodiac
well i just think Hades is meant to play with RNG
Well I just think you’re not qualified to tell one of the players in the world who beat routed 64 heat how to play the game
full otter
about that, is the video of the 64 heat run (or any 64 heat runs, if more than 1 were done) possible to see?
cloud apex
It is, yeah
full otter
where?
cloud apex
In the pinned document of #h1-high-heat-strategies
chrome wharf
high heat leader boards have a compilation
full otter
In the pinned document of <#725021448426749993>
thanks a lot
whole comet
imagine in a programming interview, you get to take a test, and you know all the questions beforehand, and get a perfect score
i think in theory that's not that different
cloud apex
It is, because even knowing answers doesn't save you from getting your ass kicked in game
chrome wharf
that's what programming interview guides do....?
whole comet
well, i mean, the EXACT question,
chrome wharf
they give you a study guide for most of the question genres covered
jade zenith
it still takes skill to learn all of the answers though
whole comet
online guides will help, but they won't tell you the 100% things the company will ask u
full otter
yeah but it's not the same, responding to questions isn't the same as playing a game
chrome wharf
alright you can't just make an analogy, then backpedal when people poke at it
I think a better analogy is your regular school exam
cloud apex
Don't get me wrong ofc, routing the game's rng is a pretty serious difference. That's why unseeded and seeded are separate categories
That does not however trivialize the gameplay
jade zenith
and actually executing the plan is a lot harder than learning what to do
twin thistle
try running unseeded/routed 64 heat lol. it takes a huge amount of skill and practice even knowing what boons/rooms you'll get
jade zenith
I know that I meant to dodge out of the way of spear throws from hades, doesn't mean I will be able to do it every time
reef zodiac
Why are you telling people the correct way to play when they’re playing at a much higher level of skill and difficulty than you are?
chrome wharf
If you sneak in notes on a closed-book exam, it's cheating because you have an advantage others aren't permitted.
But if the prof says the test is open-book, and you take in notes, then it's ok, because it's established that everyone is allowed notes
reef zodiac
That’s actually a good analogy. It’s just a different category
whole comet
i think the topic prolly could go on for a while, but better just put it aside?
reef zodiac
You started it
chrome wharf
you can argue that the 64 heat run is like one particular student getting a private tutor to put together more effective notes. But that isn't cheating, just that some people have more resources
reef zodiac
Well it’s also just a different category
full otter
you *can* argue that the 64 heat run is like one particular student getting a pr...
you said it before tho, the student is in a school where everyone gets a private tutor
reef zodiac
And it’s not like Baj acts like it’s the same as an unseeded run
whole comet
if it's school exam as an example
then it would be also knowing all the questions beforehand
full otter
everyone is allowed to do so tho
reef zodiac
Nobody cares about your analogy. The fact is that it’s just a different category, and a different kind of challenge than unseeded. And it’s insanely impressive that Baj was able to do it
jade zenith
so you know all of the questions beforehand and have the mark scheme infront of you but you are also handing the paper in with a note on the front which says you used them and everyone else did the same thing
you aren't trying to compete against people who are playing normally
reef zodiac
What’s even your point? That it’s not impressive? That people shouldn’t do it in any situation? The point of routed runs is to test the limits of what’s possible by eliminating the RNG aspect of the game
twin thistle
the amount of runs it would take trying to do 64 unseeded is just too much. routed is meant to show that it's actually something thats possible with enough effort by players
jade zenith
the point is that your analogy is dumb
because this isn't a job interview, you aren't competing against people doing the game normally
pure karma
The devs allow it to exist like that. I think that is enough.
jade zenith
and no, school exams don't do that
whole comet
so... if that exact room set up for the 64 heat run file is given to other players
think no one else can do it?
chrome wharf
you can get the seed somewhere and try for yourself
twin thistle
they can. not many at all though
full otter
if it was that easy more people would do it
reef zodiac
think no one else can do it?
Go for it
whole comet
i would like to see a bunch of people doing 64 max heat with the exact room yes lol
reef zodiac
If you beat 64 heat routed, Wieldo, maybe I’ll respect your opinion
full otter
not a lot of people do cause even with perfect rng it's really difficult
pure karma
I don't think 64 heat would be that easy. Even if you do it routed with literally perfect RNG. Like, even if the game had a built-in system that allowed you to literally pick everything you wanted in a room, I still think it would be extremely hard to just do it. Routed means you don;t waste your time to get that astronomical RNG in order. IMO ofc.
reef zodiac
It’s not easy at all
twin thistle
you still have literally the whole pact maxed
full otter
you still have literally the whole pact maxed
yea
the difference between 60 heat and 64 is astronomical
cloud apex
The very premise of having 20 minutes time limit and pretty much 0 margin of error (since you don't have revives AND heals!) is already making that achievement beyond the scope of most players
twin thistle
even just try a max pact and see how far you can get
pure karma
I am certain the people who can do 64 heat routed, can still do 64 heat unseeded. They just need to run again and again until the RNG smiles at them.
reef zodiac
And have no DF and have CF2, so you’re gonna get very few hearts
full otter
I am certain the people who can do 64 heat routed, can still do 64 heat unseeded...
well that's brute forcing a routed run
whole comet
maybe i misunderstand something, so i wanna confirm something
pure karma
well that's brute forcing a routed run
Yeah. But unseeded means you start over again from something new. Everything has to go the right way in one run at the same
The chances of that must be stupid low.
whole comet
can u also control the 2 perks given to the armor units?
signal aspen
can u also control the 2 perks given to the armor units?
No
full otter
The chances of that must be stupid low.
the exact reason why they do it seeded
reef zodiac
Wieldofrost, before we continue to argue about this, can you just exactly restate your argument? Because I don’t really understand what your point is
pure karma
Yeah that is what I am saying.
jade zenith
I would assume that you can route the BP perks
whole comet
62 unseed is the record, i believe
mint coral
Ye
pure karma
Yes, and it seems like 62 vs 64 is day and night
cloud apex
Afaik you can't really route the BP perks, albeit you can actively avoid elite rooms at the expense of whatever loot is in them
reef zodiac
with one dash it already feels different
You’re underestimating it by so much that it’s actually hilarious. Losing the dash is nowhere close to your biggest issue
mint coral
Zeus shield stronk
jade zenith
what else would it be with
reef zodiac
Zeus is super pact resistant
pure karma
I dunno Beowulf
jade zenith
the next strongest options get gutted by RI
signal aspen
I dunno Beowulf
1 cast beo sucks
jade zenith
you don't want to do beo with 1 cast
white merlin
so is the satry sack pure rng?
reef zodiac
But Beo could do 64 routed, you’d just need a lot of early chaos bloodstones
pure karma
Think pre-nerf Chaos Shield could do it too?
signal aspen
so is the satry sack pure rng?
Yeah
white merlin
no way to make an informed guess?
whole comet
and i assume that 62 unseed means he's just taking w/e RNG give him
white merlin
sheesh
pure karma
no way to make an informed guess?
It will never be on the first room, and that's about it
whole comet
first room if you give up, then next time it's the same boon, unless u change keepsake
pure karma
and i assume that 62 unseed means he's just taking w/e RNG give him
I am gonna assume the run wasn;t successful on the first try
whole comet
well yeah, prolly took a long time
but i think that guy still beats it fair
so even if he can't do it again, i still think that's amazing
at least, i think waiting for the good RNG come for u is fair
pure karma
There is no "fairness" into play here imo. Routed doesn't mean "unfair".
jade zenith
it isn't like the person who did 64 is trying to pretend that they were doing it normally
reef zodiac
no way to make an informed guess?
Well there’s the math I guess. Over 50% chance for a 2-sack
twin thistle
like 54%
jade zenith
if anything, routed runs are fairer since everybody is on the same playing field
whole comet
if routed is fair, then i prolly won't have so much trouble on hell mode fresh file..
pure karma
The question is what do you wanna do
reef zodiac
if routed is fair, then i prolly won't have so much trouble on hell mode fresh f...
??
whole comet
i could just avoid some of the worst Elysium enemy combo...
pure karma
If you want to feel the RNG then don;t bother with seeded runs
whole comet
i could take down boss easily, but to clear to them is a whole different story
jade zenith
well you could do that but you would have to submit it to the routed category
reef zodiac
routed is fair, it’s just not the same as unrouted 
pure karma
I personally don't bother.
reef zodiac
I’m done with this debate, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about 
gray apex
I’m done with this debate, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about <:...
It’s entertaining
Lol
full otter
wait doesn't pact of punishment make you get rewards once every time you do a new heat run?
jade zenith
only up to 20 heat
white merlin
ah
whole comet
up to 25 on hell
jade zenith
no
full otter
only up to 20 heat
but it's just once every time right? once per weapon and per heat?
jade zenith
yes
whole comet
yes
cloud apex
(hence you can get up to 126 (?) rewards)
whole comet
so u can't get all the rewards from 10 heat with one run, if u haven't cleared the 1st heat
jade zenith
although by the time you have maxed all of the bounties out, you will be very close if not finished to getting everything you can buy
whole comet
u must do it 10 times on that weapon, 1+ heat each playthrough
full otter
but it's just once every time right? once per weapon and per heat?
it seems like it bugged to me or something?
mint coral
You will get rewards if you do higher than required but will count for the heat you needed
And 0 heat is tracked appart
whole comet
is bow that bad? 😦
mint coral
Depends on the person
jade zenith
the charge time isn't that long when using dash strikes
white merlin
yeah its much lower
mint coral
Just get flurry shot everytime
white merlin
still dont like it aha
cause when you do the dash strike, you have a very tight window to aim, or else youll miss and waste the shot
now, back to the heat grind
reef zodiac
cause when you do the dash strike, you have a very tight window to aim, or else ...
What?
Do you have auto-aim off?
Because I don’t understand what you’re talking about. Assuming you have auto-aim on, you should just be able to dash and hold attack and it will snap to the nearest enemy
whole comet
out of curiosity, what's the max heat people can beat consistently?
white merlin
for example if im fighting the doom stone, i want to hit the stone but the auto aim tracks to one of the smaller ones instead
this is 100% a me problem btw
all the other weapons are playable
reef zodiac
for example if im fighting the doom stone, i want to hit the stone but the auto ...
That’s weird, I don’t really have that problem. I can just pull a little to the left or right and it will aim onto a new target instantly, so that’s rarely an issue
jade zenith
out of curiosity, what's the max heat people can beat consistently?
it probably depends on the weapon
reef zodiac
Doomstone can be a bit weird though, but that’s the only one I can think of
whole comet
thats' fine, weapon and heat
but not like once in a lifetime achievement, just he uses that weapon and heat and probably can beat it often
jade zenith
but high 40s is the point where RNG starts to become an issue
mint coral
Ap2 moment
whole comet
so even 41 heat is rough to them?
jade zenith
no
reef zodiac
No there are people who are consistent at 50+
white merlin
lol
whole comet
it doesn't have to be must win
reef zodiac
Idk man we’re the wrong people to ask this weird question to
jade zenith
high 40s is where you start taking RNG worsening pacts
whole comet
i see
white merlin
and then theres me, slowly clawing my way past h10
jade zenith
you can still go higher but you have to be good enough to manage
and you need to go for safer builds if you want consistency
white merlin
oh dude, how do you guys feel about aspect of gilgamesh?
mint coral
I've done 40 heat 2 times and honestly not going back any time
Is more funn trashing em4 dad
mint coral
oh dude, how do you guys feel about aspect of gilgamesh?
Is fun
whole comet
i know there's only a few youtuber able to but lots of 50+ video
full otter
oh dude, how do you guys feel about aspect of gilgamesh?
i had to use it once for the ambrosia and god damn that was a weird run
whole comet
only Tailesque videos pop up a lot
full otter
i don't like it at all
jade zenith
for example, you don't really want to be going for ME at 50+ heat if you are after consistency
reef zodiac
oh dude, how do you guys feel about aspect of gilgamesh?
Worst aspect in the game
white merlin
hold on
whole comet
well, i suppose consistency also means if you dun have the best build, u still tend to clear
jade zenith
no
reef zodiac
In order to beat 40 heat with Gil I had to basically not attack
mint coral
32 heat is the last in game reward
white merlin
Worst aspect in the game
yeah, i had a feeling. i didnt know if it was me though. it feels so bad
jade zenith
32, 40 and 50 heat are the speedrunning categories
reef zodiac
The attack is just so terrible and slow
jade zenith
god no
whole comet
oh right, people also wanna beat it fast
twin thistle
reef zodiac
theres no 60 heat category?
60 heat has been beaten less than 5 times unseeded (I think)
signal aspen
oh dude, how do you guys feel about aspect of gilgamesh?
It's stinky
jade zenith
any heat is basically ignoring all everything that doesn't make you go faster
32 heat speedruns are still prioritising going fast but is a lot more punishing
40 heat is where you might want to consider survivability options
50 heat is RNG hell when trying to get a good run
signal aspen
Yeah dash only gilg is fun
reef zodiac
Yeah dash only EM4 runs were pretty fun for me
white merlin
60 heat has been beaten less than 5 times unseeded (I think)
jeez. that bad? id figure if anyone could do it it would be the speedrunners
hmm
reef zodiac
jeez. that bad? id figure if anyone could do it it would be the speedrunners
You can see all these stats on the high heat leaderboard that’s pinned in #h1-high-heat-strategies
twin thistle
60 heat is just stupid difficult
white merlin
cause i imagine if youre doing speedruns, youd want to avoid those really bad pacts like hard labor and calisthenics
reef zodiac
And it’s also fine for high heat
jade zenith
also at high heats you have no choice but to speedrun
twin thistle
that or pick a really unfun pact
reef zodiac
Lol TD2 CP1 RI4 60 heat
jade zenith
someday there might be a player that prefers doing that
reef zodiac
Nah
RI4 LC4 means you literally cannot heal, and find hearts much less often. Nobody is gonna want to do that unless they’re at 63 heat
gray apex
Just use gy spin
jade zenith
TD2 means that the time is basically not an issue and if you search hard enough there will probably be someone that would prefer to play carefully and nohit the entire run
reef zodiac
I’d be shocked
Can’t really no-hit everything with one dash, basically no good boons, and with CP, BP, FO, JS, and EM maxed out
jade zenith
will they be successful, no
could I see someone trying it, yes
reef zodiac
And if you can, then just do 64
white merlin
so. do you guys grind heat on a preferred weapon? or do you go through them all?
signal aspen
I do high heat on all weapons but if I'm going for a new heat pb I'll use zeus shield
gray apex
^
reef zodiac
so. do you guys grind heat on a preferred weapon? or do you go through them all?
I did 40 heat on every weapon, 45 on 6 weapons, and 50 on just Beowulf
white merlin
legend.
white merlin
absolute legend
reef zodiac
I’m working on 50 heat Hestia rn
white merlin
im still trying to find one i really enjoy
reef zodiac
Have you tried the good ones? (Hestia, Rama, Beowulf, Zeus)
white merlin
i been grinding on Talos for a bit. thats been fun
signal aspen
Talos is fun
signal aspen
Ye
reef zodiac
Picking a really good high heat aspect can make it a lot more fun, even if that aspect isn’t your favorite (as long as you enjoy the aspect)
signal aspen
Makes them take 50% extra attack and cast damage
reef zodiac
Talos is probably my pick for second worst aspect
It was my main when I was first starting out though
white merlin
yeah
full otter
for me it's 1. gilgames
2. lucifer
i think guan yu could get up there soon but i haven't tried it enough yet
signal aspen
It's fine
white merlin
people say uh.... is it hestia?
white merlin
the one that lets you absorb your special
signal aspen
Eris
reef zodiac
for me it's 1. gilgames
2. lucifer
i think guan yu could get up there soon but i...
Big hidden aspect fan (but not the good hidden aspects lmao)?
white merlin
people say eris is nice
full otter
i just don't like them
white merlin
feels linda slow to me tbh
reef zodiac
Eris is one of the fastest aspects in the game
signal aspen
And great for speedrunning
full otter
gilgamesh is slow even if it tries to be a faster weapon, not being able to attack mid dashes is the opposite of what i look for in a weapon
and lucifer is just totally weird
reef zodiac
Definitely the best beginner speedrun aspect
white merlin
ill give it a try then
i havent tried many of the hidden aspects
i still gotta farm that achievement...
reef zodiac
Eris isn’t a hidden aspect 
white merlin
oh i know, i meant in general
reef zodiac
I love Rama so much
white merlin
i legit never use them
white merlin
is there a weapon aspect tier list out there?
would be nice to get some perspective
reef zodiac
It’s all based on context
full otter
there are a few on youtube based on different things
reef zodiac
But yeah Haelian made one
full otter
but at the very end you can play whatever you want and win with it
chrome wharf
so. do you guys grind heat on a preferred weapon? or do you go through them all?
I only play weapons I like lol
full otter
try different ones and have fun with them
chrome wharf
Eris is like, too good
gray apex
Just experiment with different stuff
gray apex
If you’re gonna disregard certain aspects because some high heat player said it’s bad then you’re probably missing out, just try everything
white merlin
I only play weapons I like lol
truly s tier mindset
twin thistle
hestia rail supremacy
white merlin
i agree 100% everything seems playable
mint coral
Last time i did hestia it ended up as a poseidon call build lmao
twin thistle
yeah try em all out and figure out which ones suck
white merlin
i was just curious because stuff i think is good might actually be bad
full otter
bad doesn't generally exist
every aspect gives something to the weapon
some of the worst aspects are aspects that just don't change it that much
reef zodiac
some of the worst aspects are aspects that just don't change it that much
Gilgamesh actively makes it worse. And I personally think Talos does as well
twin thistle
guan ew
full otter
expect some of course
but even then it's a totally different experience and sometimes it doesn't feel like the same weapon
mint coral
Some of the weapons i just feel like they are boring to play
Mainly zag aspects
gray apex
I use Zag bow a lot
full otter
i got my fastest clear with zag sword randomly
twin thistle
other than zag bow they bad
gray apex
I like the simplicity
full otter
used it once to win with it once and i got a 13m run easily, my second fastest was about 16.5m
twin thistle
though i prefer hestia over zag though like rail
pure karma
I kinda like Gilgamesh tbh
twin thistle
dash only gilgamesh is fun
white merlin
does gilgamesh stack with uh.... greater reflex?
reef zodiac
Yes
white merlin
thats nuts
twin thistle
well the dashes still kinda suck
mint coral
Gilga mostly uses ruthless reflex tho
pure karma
it uhh, it really isnt
twin thistle
shorter dashes, longer cooldown
reef zodiac
Not really, because the attack is still absolutely awful and the dash cooldown is also abysmal
mint coral
Speaking of gilga does anything increases maim damage? I dont think i have seen more than the 500 damage
reef zodiac
No
twin thistle
global dmg increases ig?
mint coral
Let maim crit pls
twin thistle
special boons wont since its basically a status effect
pure karma
Maim should trigger with Doom if you have it. So with ME you dump both doom and aim on the target
white merlin
500 damage? ok, i might have to re evaluate gilgamesh
twin thistle
with how slow the special is, probably still better to just dash strike
base is 300?
for maim dmg
mint coral
No clue
reef zodiac
500 damage? ok, i might have to re evaluate gilgamesh
Don’t
It’s 400 btw
And it increases the damage the enemy deals to you
It’s absolutely terrible
twin thistle
well if you want big number just use hestia rail
mint coral
2.5 free levels of hard labor
reef zodiac
It also takes so so long to actually hit
mint coral
Just for 25% global damage
pure karma
Why aren't they buffing Gilgamesh a bit
reef zodiac
Maim existing makes the dash strike worse
reef zodiac
Why aren't they buffing Gilgamesh a bit
They’re done balancing the game
white merlin
And it increases the damage the enemy deals to you
i take it back.
reef zodiac
Imo maim is a downside
full otter
wait i just took the "4 damage every time you attack" with beowulf
reef zodiac
Don’t get hit
bright reef
How many times do you need to beat Hades to finish all of the main story
pure karma
10
twin thistle
10*
mint coral
wait i just took the "4 damage every time you attack" with beowulf
At least is not cast damages you
reef zodiac
At least is not cast damages you
No, damage on attack is definitely worse
A lot worse
twin thistle
dmg on cast is only once per rush
full otter
it's gonna be a long 4 rooms
twin thistle
even with multiple bloodstones loaded iirc
reef zodiac
Is it? I’m not sure about that
mint coral
Pretty sure i've seen hit multiple times
reef zodiac
But with damage on cast you can just attack and not cast
With damage on attack you take damage twice every time you want to even use your cast
full otter
3 more to go
twin thistle
idk think thats how it worked with hera maybe possibly
full otter
this was a nightmare
reef zodiac
What was the upside?
full otter
89% dash attack
full otter
idk i don't mind dash strike dmg honestly
other thing was special damage and one i can't remember
strong ridge
true
whole comet
at least, not very willingly
signal aspen
I got one of those when I was playing talos
strong ridge
game up
signal aspen
It made resetting very easy
full otter
depends on where you are tho
strong ridge
which boon r u
full otter
cause i luckily got it in asphodel
whole comet
lol imagine b4 Thessus, u got that -4 attack XD
though, argubly i think lots of chaos could screw u up too b4 boss, like move speed dash speed decrease
reef zodiac
Eh I’ll take any downside in Tartarus if the reward is good enough
full otter
just realized that the reason why i don't like lucifer is because i play with mouse and keyboard
reef zodiac
?
full otter
the aim is so bad
reef zodiac
It is?
crude oxide
how do you get eternal rest quest?
ive unlocked 4 weapon aspects and its not showing up
twin thistle
how do you get eternal rest quest?
nectared skelly till locked heart?
crude oxide
nope
brisk trail
Is the skelly statue is so he force you to play high heat for nothing?(besides the contractor reward)
twin thistle
Is the skelly statue is so he force you to play high heat for nothing?(besides t...
statues are pretty much just comestic/bragging rights
broken copper
nope
i think he may require maxing out zag aspect on the sword first
quick question, anyone know how i'm suppose to gift nectar to hades? I've beaten the game and everything and had the talk that unlocked his hearts but I still can't give him any nectar when I see him in the house, it is random?
rapid forum
pretty much yes, keep doing runs, keep talking to him
broken copper
could I die in the first two chambers and fast reset or do I have to talk to him at the end of the run right before the fight?
dark ravine
are there any requirements to getting the hidden weapon aspects? or just wait for the text/talk thingy
mint coral
requirements on #h1-story-discussion pins
broken copper
some do have requirements
dark ravine
thank
whole comet
statues are pretty much just comestic/bragging rights
hey, comestic is a huge reward 😄
broken copper
lol was hoping for atleast some nectar or stuff like that
whole comet
u sure got some high expectation from a char like Skelly O_O
mint coral
the statues look awesome tbh
whole comet
and tbh
i think the main purpose is prolly SuperGiant's idea of asking people to try beat the game at this heat
asking people to beat 32 heat with all weapons prolly too much
mint coral
just realized how much i love "in the blood" instrumental
whole comet
so, just find a weapon and build to beat 32 heat, and feel good
reef zodiac
Is it possible to die to time while still having charges left on Evergreen Acorn?
Or does it work like Divine Protection?
signal aspen
Is it possible to die to time while still having charges left on Evergreen Acorn...
Yes
brisk trail
Is it possible to die to time while still having charges left on Evergreen Acorn...
Yes
Just stay on the lava since it bypasses the charges
reef zodiac
Acorn is better for Hades than Tooth. I think. I know it is with HL5 (by a lot), but I’m not 100% sure about HL0
*outside of EM4
whole comet
sigh, it would take forever to finish the fate list
hollow thistle
dont rush it
i like to be surprised when i get into my room and see fated list glowing
twin thistle
you can just use mirror refunds
whole comet
well i'm aiming to unlock all eventually
just taking my time, but darkness comes a bit slow lol
i guess that's when u win too much backfires O_O
twin thistle
just do a couple farming runs
lower heat, grab poseidon and chaos darkness/gem boons, profit
mint coral
and your friend
whole comet
oh yeah, bouldy room, always pick darkness unless high heat occassionally
mint coral
i mean the summon ww
whole comet
ah i have some plans, so dun wanna equip any dolls
lone kernel
I don’t think I’ve taken persuasion off since I got it lol
reef zodiac
Persuasion goated
whole comet
i think the purple is good if u got for boonless
reef zodiac
I guess
whole comet
well, those boonless message
reef zodiac
Doesn’t really matter tbh. I did my boonless run with persuasion
twin thistle
authority with boonless makes stacking a crap of centaur hearts pretty easy
reef zodiac
Yeah Authority is probably marginally better for boonless
whole comet
but could say the reverse too
twin thistle
for like the getting disciple of clear message its good ig
whole comet
800g after first boss 😄
wonder if u can go for like 3000g if u didn't spend anything
one of sword hammer upgrade makes u do more dmg if you hold more coins, right?
mint coral
yeah, and is kinda bad ww iirc it adds the damage after any other % you have
whole comet
i dun think i have that yet, so eventually gotta use it
maybe that run i will have to give up the blood/diamond 😦
reef zodiac
Hoarding Slash doesn’t even apply to dash strikes
reef zodiac
really?
Yeah it’s like really bad
Neither does cursed slash
But breaching slash does
But then shadow slash doesn’t
But then piercing wave does
crude oxide
should i max hestia?
crude oxide
it acctually encouraged me to try rail
simple sage
||Would it work to play through just the first boss going up to high heat in order to get the one titan blood each time to max out your weapons?||
whole comet
in think no need to hide anything on this channel
and no it won't work
because, the heat system requires u to full clear that heat level b4 u can progress
whole comet
so, if you're at heat 5, and u set to heat 10, u beat meg first time and die, next run u still will get darkness from meg
until u complete heat 5 and beat all bosses, then u can progress to heat 6 reward
so, set heat higher than the required heat, in terms of rewards, accomplish nothing
vapid narwhal
yep, the heat only goes up after you get a clear
simple sage
so, set heat higher than the required heat, in terms of rewards, accomplish noth...
Makes sense thanks
whole comet
if low heat is boring to u, you could either set high heat for fun
or just takes the advantage to complete some fate list stuff, go for darkness/gems, or styx blood/gem
i mean, i like to get gather up 1k gold in low heat, and get blood/diamond faster
simple sage
Eh I’m fairly new just trying to max out some weapons. I wouldn’t call anything boring. Perhaps a little over skilled for the single digit heat I’ve been doing but wouldn’t claim I’m outpacing it by much.
whole comet
just experiment around and have fun 😄
fast willow
i think sword is just not for me
the only sword build that has been somewhat okay for me so far was a poseidon cast build which basically doesnt even use the sword other than to disloge casts
high island
Stygius can take quite a bit of practice to do well with.
whole comet
eh, i think all sword and fist are annoying to use
brisk trail
damn, 32 heat is hard as hell
full otter
tried 20 heat to see if something would change but i still got hit just once in the hades fight haha
manic bobcat
Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.
whole comet
i think everyone would agree heightend security is bad, yes?
rapid forum
it's too punishing for how many heat it gives
which is 1
if it's like 3, maybe I'll justify
whole comet
forced overtime, even 1 point, i strongly recommend against
high island
I think HS is fine the way it is.
brisk trail
I like heightened security.
high island
Same.
whole comet
well, he said he has a hard time
brisk trail
Makes you play a bit more carefully, or take the boons that resist traps more
modern garnet
HS is at the right amount of heat.... but it is a very punishing pact
brisk trail
It’s the overconfidence killer
modern garnet
FO you can get used to, TD you can get used to.....
brisk trail
And it forces you to pay attention to your positioning
high island
damn, 32 heat is hard as hell
If you're looking for help with 32 Heat, #h1-high-heat-strategies.
full otter
anyone knows how much ambrosia does hermes need to get to full hearts? cause it just won't trigger the dialogue but i don't know how much i should save
is it 1 per heart?
whole comet
curious what people would suggest there lol
high island
I think 6 Nectar and 2 Ambrosia for Lord Hermes.
full otter
k thanks
whole comet
btw, i wanna ask
full otter
just wanted to make sure it's not like dusa
whole comet
if you gotta pick one WORST perks to start a run
brisk trail
Dusa is her own beast
whole comet
u guys think RI would be #1?
brisk trail
RI?
whole comet
the one that turns off your mirror skill
high island
Don't avoid the swear filter, though.
brisk trail
Yes
whole comet
assuming just one max out perk
full otter
well, is RI4 the worst perk?
i think so yeah
brisk trail
Never max that out unless that’s the only one you wanna max out
full otter
even then it's gonna be a really hard run to pull off
brisk trail
Even then, it’s just to test how well you know the game at that point
brisk trail
Don't avoid the swear filter, though. <:dusa:522248771409543188>
That was purposeful on my end. There may be kiddos listening in
full otter
yeah that's the thing
high island
M saying this kind of message is not okay in this server.
whole comet
doing RI4 kinda means your past skill most likely r 80% gone
high island
doing RI4 kinda means your past skill most likely r 80% gone
You can take away my mirror talents, but you can never take away my skill.
reef zodiac
doing RI4 kinda means your past skill most likely r 80% gone
How
high island
Never max that out unless that’s the only one you wanna max out
So don't do this? https://youtu.be/fFkhLApwY-Q
brisk trail
Ok that’s just skill and pain and scary
whole comet
lol at least that TD3 makes it not very fun for me to try
so won't do it 😄
would consider put those points on somewhere else , and all others of that run on though
brisk trail
I’d say try it just to see what it feels like
high island
What about the unseeded mirrorless WR by Tailesque? 🦊 🔄 https://youtu.be/kJ3Idc-QOAg
whole comet
here's a question
50 Heat mirrorless sword vs fresh file hell mode
which one is harder? XD
reef zodiac
FF hell mode is definitely easier
whole comet
actually
reef zodiac
Yes
rapid forum
hell mode isn't as hard as you think
reef zodiac
That changes nothing
brisk trail
Hell Mode is just play the game, but better
whole comet
you could change ur 50 heat set up, but must have RI4
high island
FYI, there's a difference between fresh file and first run.